Mick Unplugged - Jeremy Stalnecker: Reveals Lessons in Leadership From Military Service

Starting point is 00:00:00 I figured it out because I had the right people in my life and, you know, walked this out as a faith journey. I had a responsibility now to take that to the men that I had served with specifically, but then, you know, more broadly since 2012. Welcome to Mick Unplugged, the number one podcast for self-improvement, leadership, and relentless growth. No fluff, no filters. just heart-hitting truths, unstoppable strategies, and the mindset shifts that separate the best from the rest.

Starting point is 00:00:35 Ready to break limits? Let's go. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today, we have a distinguished Marine Corps veteran. He's a pastor, and he's the CEO, the Mighty Oaks Foundation,

Starting point is 00:00:55 dedicated to aiding America's military, military warriors and their families in overcoming unseen wounds of combat, such as PTSD. Please join me in welcoming the courageous, the compassionate, the transformative. My God, Mr. Jeremy Saulnaker. Jeremy, how are you doing? I'm doing good, man. Hey, your whole audience is going to be disappointed, though, after that introduction. So I appreciate it, man.

Starting point is 00:01:17 No, it's good to be with you. Really appreciate it. No, sir, no, sir, no, sir. We're not going to be disappointed because I know that you bring it, man. Like, you know, your journey from the core to being a pastor to all the amazing things that you do for our heroes is commendable, man. And I just wanted to tell you that personally, you know, those that know me know that Robert Irvine is not only a mentor of mine, but one of my closest friends in the world. And his foundation does so much for our military, our servicemen and women and all that. And so over the last couple of years, I've gotten to see in action the things that you do and you should totally be applauded, brother.

Starting point is 00:02:00 Yeah, well, I appreciate that. Yeah, Robert Irvine, man. So I was a part of the First Battalion, Fifth Marines, and he has supported reunions and other events for us over the years. So he's definitely someone who shows appreciation. And, you know, a lot of people say things, but he actually does things. It's super cool. Amen. Man, if Robert's taught me anything, and he's taught me a lot, but the one thing is about how to make an impact.

Starting point is 00:02:25 Yeah. Right. And he tells me if what you're doing in your business and your personal life isn't making impact, then what are you doing it for? That's good. And so that's changed my lens a lot, man. Yeah, that's good. People like you are people that I appreciate. So, you know, I always start the show with asking my guest about their because, that thing that's deeper than their why, right?

Starting point is 00:02:48 Like that real root of why you do what you do, the purpose behind it. So if I were to say, Jeremy, man, today, what's your because? What's your because, brother? Yeah. Man, that's an interesting way of putting that. And I could spend a lot of time talking about it. But, you know, when I came home from Iraq, as a Christian, a person of faith, with a good family, into a good church, I had this support network around me. So I had all of the pieces that we would tell men and women coming back from combat to half.

Starting point is 00:03:16 I had them. and the bottom still fell out of my life. I struggled in a lot of different ways. And it was faith and it was the right people and it was, you know, all these components that got me to a place where I was functioning well again and healing and moving forward. And it was a long process, but I had the right people in my life. But in the middle of that, this was 2003, I really believed I was either broken, there was something wrong with me or I was one of the only people that struggled like this, right?

Starting point is 00:03:44 like other people can't possibly struggle like this and so as i started to move forward i i just said i'm not going to look back this is me this is this is my journey this is my thing right like i need to grow through this which was true but what wasn't true is that i was the only one who had dealt with that it took me about 10 years um i got together 10 years after i'd served you know home from ring home from combat home from iraq and a couple of the guys that we had served with, got together, and we all sat down and talked about 10 of us. And I hadn't talked to those guys in 10 years. And what I started to hear was stories of suicide, of, you know, some of the men that we had served with, combat deaths, those that had gone back to Iraq, and a lot of broken

Starting point is 00:04:32 homes and people just struggling to get by. And what I realized in that moment, and that was in 2012, and what I realized then was that, A, man, I'm not the only one who struggled like this. But B, this is the, this gets to your point or to your question, I figured it out because I had the right people in my life and, you know, walked this out as a faith journey. I had a responsibility now to take that to the men that I had served with specifically, but then, you know, more broadly since 2012, to the men and women who serve. There is an answer. There is a path forward.

Starting point is 00:05:09 And I have a responsibility to share with others what was shared with and important to me. That's amazing, man. And the work that you're doing, not just you, obviously, but the Mighty Oaks Foundation in addressing some of these unseen wounds, right? And I love how you talk about that because, yeah, it's real easy when you see a veteran and you can physically see the wounds, right? But there are a lot of unseen things that happen. How does your personal experience, right? help you approach the healing and support within the foundation and the people that you help. Well, I believe fundamentally what you just said, that we're dealing with what are unseen wounds. But in many, many cases, they're more damaging than even physical wounds.

Starting point is 00:06:02 You know, physical wounds we can see, we can address, we can deal with. But so many people are carrying traumas and brokenness within them that goes undelt with. They learn how to cope, perhaps. They learn how to shove it down, how to avoid it, how to stay away from places that bring up these feelings and emotions and thoughts. But eventually, you can't push it down anymore. You can't avoid it anymore. You can't get around it anymore.

Starting point is 00:06:31 If you don't address these, you know, as you said, unseen wounds, eventually it will have, I say eventually. And eventually it will have a very damaging effect on you. But I think throughout your life, it's, You know, it's almost like walking with a limp, right? Like there's something wrong. You're getting by. You're kind of working through the things you have to work through in life, but not fully

Starting point is 00:06:53 to the way that you were created or to the ability that you actually have. And so, you know, trauma is not something that is reserved for those who served in the military. But one of the things that happens in combat is that acute trauma. you are pushed into environments and situations and circumstances that your entire life you're told to avoid, right? Taking a life, you know, seeing friends who lose their lives and all the damage and things that happen on the battlefield. Your entire life is spent avoiding those things and now you're dropped in the middle of them. And you have other people around you to support you, others who are going through the same thing. But it's not dealt with.

Starting point is 00:07:38 And when you then separate out of that environment, that military environment, you're all alone with your thoughts, your feelings, the emotions, the traumas, the hurt, the brokenness that you've never dealt with. And you have a decision to make. And again, it is very important for me to say, you know, I talk about this even in our program. You talk to young people who are sexually abused and, you know, spouses who deal with abuse. And there's so much trauma, so much brokenness and so much hurt in our world. This is not reserved for veterans. However, the cause of particularly combat veterans coming home and dealing with these things and trying to move beyond them, I mean, we see it.

Starting point is 00:08:20 We see it in the numbers. More than 22 veterans a day take their lives. More than four active duty service members a day take their lives. These are real numbers that speak to the consequence of life experience undelt with. Yeah. Man, you know, again, it's still. that sometimes we who did not serve will never understand. It's more than just that one human being that these experiences touch, right?

Starting point is 00:08:52 Or impact. You know, there's family members. There's, you know, there's friends, there's confidants that also go through this. How does your foundation, the Mighty Oaks Foundation, help those other individuals as well too. Yeah, that's a great question. Well, it starts by giving hope. I think one of the challenges for a family member or a friend who's watching someone that

Starting point is 00:09:21 they care about deal with this is just that there's no hope. What do I do? I don't know what to do or how to help them or where to send them. And the fact that we have a program that is designed to help those who are hurting, a program that doesn't cost anything, we cover the cost of travel and the program, and we raise the money to do that. So it's free to that person. It's run by other people who have been students in our program, who are combat veterans, who know exactly where they're coming from. So I think the first thing it does is it gives hope. There is a place that my friend,

Starting point is 00:09:53 family member, loved one can go to and get the help that they need. The second thing is just kind of foundationally, when we talk to the folks who attend our program, somewhere throughout that week, we'll have a conversation about why it is you need to get better. Why do you need to heal? Why do you need to make better decisions? Why do you need to decide not to ever take your life? Why are we talking about all of these things? It's not really about you. You need to get better. You need to heal. You need to learn and grow all the things that we talk about so that you can be a fully engaged husband, a fully engaged father, someone in our society and in our culture that's giving instead of taking, you need to get to the point where you can, you know, be that

Starting point is 00:10:41 servant leader and really kind of fulfill the mission that took you into the military in the first place. So it's giving hope to a family member. There's a place that I can send them. There is then just fundamentally learning as you come through this process. I'm growing and learning so that I can go and be what my family needs for me to be. And then, you know, kind of, I don't know, very practically, we have written books, provided resources and have a lot of content on our website that is for anyone.

Starting point is 00:11:11 So if you're, you know, you're a family member. You don't know what to do. There are places on our website that you can find help. There are books that we've provided that will get to you. Digital downloads you can download for free. We want you to have all the content you need so that you can navigate these things. But it's kind of a multifaceted approach. And man, this is, you know, you ask what is the reason that I do what I do.

Starting point is 00:11:33 Well, one of the reasons is I hurt my family a lot. early on, right? And that is what happens. Your family's close to you. They love you and they're trying to support you. And they're the ones that bear the brunt of you not making the decision to get up and move forward. And so the family dynamic, man, is huge, huge. And we continue to look for ways to support that. Yeah. I want to unplug something you talked about a little bit when you talked about the servant leader. And I know leadership is something that you're very passionate about. We actually have a lot in common in our leadership philosophies.

Starting point is 00:12:13 You know, in your book, Leadership by Design, you talk about leadership is about being, not just doing, right? And one of my pillars, like in my book, I talk about, you know, some of the common traits that all good leaders or great leaders have. and one of them is every great leader I've studied is always present. And so when you talk about leadership is about being, I correlated that to being present. But I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your philosophy and how that shapes effective leadership for you.

Starting point is 00:12:47 Yeah, you know, I came out of the Marine Corps. I was an infantry officer. And so I went to what I would consider to be the best leadership schools in the world, learning how to lead in combat environments. And so I learned that. And what I took away from that was this hyper-aggressive type A leadership. You're standing up on the table. You're screaming.

Starting point is 00:13:06 You're the guy saying, we're going over there. Well, then you're in charge, right? That's that kind of leadership. There's a place for that. Also in the military, you learn what are called tactics, techniques, and procedures. These are the very specific ways that you accomplish the goals. So everything that you do as a military leader has a list associated with it. You do these things in this order.

Starting point is 00:13:27 If this happens, here's a contingency. So it's all very planned out and very structured. And so I took from this, leadership is being super aggressive, and it's knowing how to do a thing, right? It's about that one thing. Then I came out of the military. I went into ministry and I started to hear words like servant leadership and some of these words. But what I observed was that a lot of people outside of the military, they didn't have that hyper-aggressive thing, but they had what we would call now a passive-aggressive thing, right? And so it was this leadership that is almost manipulative.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Like, I'm going to get you to do what I'm. I want you to do, and it won't sound the same as you'd find in the military, but the goal is the same, to get you to do what I want you to do. And what I came to understand, and through a lot of study, writing that book was really just a process for me to try to define this and understand it, was that real leadership is about using the tools, the resources, the opportunities that you have, viewing those from a stewardship perspective, I have these for the benefit of others. So whatever those things are, I have them for the benefit of others.

Starting point is 00:14:29 So my job as a leader is not to get you to do what I want you to do. It's to leverage everything I have at my disposal to make you better than you would be without me. I use the definition that leadership is taking people from where they are to where they need to be. A good leader is someone that takes people from where they are right now to where they really need to be. And we can spend hours talking about the implications of that. But what that leads to then for me is that leadership is not about learning a list. of tactics, techniques, and procedures. It's not about learning a specific job. There's a place for that. You need to know that. You need to be proficient at your job. But leadership fundamentally

Starting point is 00:15:09 is being. And so when I talk about leadership, what do I focus on? Well, we need to focus on being the right kind of leader, not doing leadership. Be a person of character. Be a person who listens and understands, be a person who seeks the right people in their circle, gets, you know, counsel from the right people, be a person that has made a decision to give what they have to others. It is being the right kind of person. And what happens if you are a leader instead of just do leadership is that if you're in the military, you can lead because you can learn the stuff. You can lead. When you lead the military, you can still lead. When you go home, you can still lead.

Starting point is 00:15:55 When you get another job, you can still lead. And the problem with positional leadership or organizational leadership is that I can do that over there. But now I'm completely confused. Why is it that I can't lead in my home and lead my kids? And I got a new job. Why am I falling on my face? Because you thought that was leadership. That was doing a job.

Starting point is 00:16:18 Leadership is saying, what do I have and how can I best use it for other people? amazing yeah i couldn't have said that better man and i actually am going to take some notes on that too because you're exactly right it's it's you but it's more importantly the impact that you have on others 100% to me i like to define my success as a leader by how many other leaders i create like to me that's my benchmark i'll tell people there's two things that my team scores me on so just like I have performance reviews with them, I also require them to have a performance review with me. And I'm looking at two things. Regardless of your title, am I developing you as a leader? And the second thing is culture is my biggest accountability. Culture is me. That's how

Starting point is 00:17:07 I get graded. Grade me on the culture of the organization. And to me, that's the biggest accountability checkmark that you can have because we've all heard the saying attitude reflects leadership. Well, to me in business and even in your household, culture is what reflects leadership. And so I love that that's something with you too. And transitioning to something that you also said about character. You know, when I, when I've studied you and I've seen your videos, I listen to your podcast, you talk a lot about the importance of character in leadership. And you highlight traits like virtue and knowledge and self-control. For the viewers and listeners today, how can they cultivate these qualities first in themselves and then also for

Starting point is 00:17:53 others? Yeah. Wow. That's a great question. Again, there are probably a thousand different ways we can go with that, right? But I think high level, first of all, you have to make the decision to be a person of character. It does not happen on accident by osmosis just because you are around the right people. You have to make a decision that you prioritize character. You have to make a decision that you prioritize character above everything else. And what is character? I mean, we have good character or bad character. Character is who you actually are.

Starting point is 00:18:25 And so we make a decision to develop good character. And then, you know, from there, we learn how to do that. And I think that is being around the right people. That is, you know, for me, as a Christian, that's spending time in the Bible and asking the question. You know, what does God, the creator, how does he? want me to live, you know, and onboarding those things, not as a checklist or like rules or do's or don'ts, but like authentically, what should, what should come out of me, right? That's my character.

Starting point is 00:18:56 So it's spending time, again, for me in the Bible, it's spending time reading other books. I read a lot of books by people who know more than me who have faced hard things. I love biographies for these reasons, right? Like, you face a critical decision point and what happens? How do I make those decisions? it is surrounding yourself with the right people. Mentorship is absolutely essential if you're going to develop character because you need someone on the outside looking in.

Starting point is 00:19:22 You can say, hey, you're doing a good job here. You're not doing quite as good there. Maybe there are some adjustments that need to be made. And so it's making a decision. It's spending time learning. I would say first from our creator and then from others. It's surrounding yourself with good mentors, putting some people in your life that have permission to speak truth.

Starting point is 00:19:39 and then walking it out or living it out. You know, where are some areas that I can develop this through, you know, working it out, doing the things that are required of character. That's leading my children and leading in my home and leading in these areas where I'm demonstrating character, you know, start big. It's one thing to be a CEO faced with the ability to take something that's not yours in a big way, right? Like, don't start there.

Starting point is 00:20:08 start by keeping your word to your kids start by doing what you said you're going to do with your spouse start by showing up on time let your character grow through these really small acts that are very important and then when the big things come there's not going to be a question your character has been developed and you just respond out of what you've already been putting in i love that brother i love that man like you are you're the voice that i think most of i was going to to say America, but I'm going to say the world needs to hear. And I genuinely mean that. Because the world is changing so fast. And, you know, I know when we look back in history and we say that, you know, we always evolve and we do. We evolve as society. We evolve as humans. And we do. But I would definitely say that the rate of that evolution is much faster now than it's ever been. 100%. And so from a leadership perspective, what do you see as like,

Starting point is 00:21:08 the most pressing challenge or challenges for leaders today? And then more importantly, how can they adapt to meet those challenges? Man, yeah. So for me personally, one of the biggest challenges is just how fast things change and how much information is coming our way all the time. I was having a conversation about this earlier today that it is becoming so difficult. It probably has been for a long time, but it's so difficult to know, is that right? is that wrong? Is that real or is that not real? I mean, turn on the news right now. I can't even

Starting point is 00:21:45 discern really what's happening because there's so much information coming from so many different places. And so exercising discernment, understanding what is real and what's not, what's true and what's not, but more than anything, understanding in the midst of this chaos and this confusion and this deluge of information, what should I do? That's the challenge and it's so easy to get pulled down a rabbit hole of, you know, information and whatever and allowing that, getting pulled down that rabbit hole to prevent you from doing what you've been placed on this earth to do. I have a podcast coming out. It's just a solo podcast, me just talking, I think next week on developing a personal mission statement. And if you don't know

Starting point is 00:22:33 who you are or why you're here, then you will be dragged. all over the place. The loudest voice, the most compelling argument is going to take you wherever they want you to go. And you can be sincere in that. I don't think it's because I'm trying to do anything wrong. It's just because I'm not grounded anywhere. And for me, having a mission statement that defines my goals, it keeps me grounded. So I'm not trying to answer every question, understand all that's going on. I'm simply trying to navigate. How do I do what I feel like I was placed on this earth to do in the midst of an ever-changing environment. So that, I think, being grounded in that, you know, it's taking time to really establish

Starting point is 00:23:17 this is who I am, this is what I'm here to do, here to accomplish. And then it's just, you know, I guess pushing out the noise is not the, probably the best phrase, but it's pushing aside anything that doesn't allow you to do that. No. It's, you know what they say? It's easy to curse the darkness. Yeah. But, man, it's always been hard.

Starting point is 00:23:39 I'm sure it's been challenging at other times for other reasons. And right now what we're dealing with is different. Technology is different. Our access to information is different. You know, it's different. But it's always been tough to be who you were created to be. And you have to be grounded to that and then move forward in that. I don't know if that's the best answer or not.

Starting point is 00:24:02 But it's really figuring out who am I, why am I here? recognizing the world's changing, but it will always change. It's going to be different 10 years from now than it is right now. That shouldn't change you I am, though. And that goes back to the character conversation we had a minute ago. Yeah, I love that. I totally love that. And I agree with that challenge, right?

Starting point is 00:24:20 Like, we're in the information age, whether people want to believe it or not. You know, I tell this conversation with my children and leaders that I lead that are under the age of 30, right? Like, when I was growing up, I had to believe what everyone told. me right like there was no internet there was no social media right if my parents said this was the truth then that was the truth right and then i think when you got older you realize oh wait i was doing this because that's what my parents said not because it was real and then there was also a time and i know that there are some viewers and listeners that are not going to understand this there was a time when we would get today's news tomorrow right right or even this weekend right right jeremy

Starting point is 00:25:06 Can you imagine all the things like you live in California, all the things that are going on now, good, bad, and different. Could you imagine waiting until tomorrow night to find out what happened? Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. And what happens is we get sucked into that vortex, right? It's like, I want more. I want more. And I don't even have to go get a newspaper.

Starting point is 00:25:26 I don't have to turn on the television. I just have to get on my phone and it's there. So, yeah, it's tough. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you brought. up your podcast. You have a podcast. Talk to the viewers and listeners about your podcast. Let's plug that now. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's called the March or Die podcast. The title comes from

Starting point is 00:25:44 a story, a fight that we were in in Iraq. And the principle is this. In life, we're going to have traumas and trials and difficulties and obstacles and all the things that will pop up in front of us and seek to prevent us from moving forward. And in those moments, we have to make a decision. Are we going to stay where we are and die? You know, because death is not always physical. People who aren't moving forward are functionally dead. You're relationally and spiritually and emotionally, you're dead. You're just kind of getting by.

Starting point is 00:26:18 You're just surviving. That's death. That's no kind of life. But when those things pop up in front of us, we have to decide. Am I going to stay where I am and die? Or am I going to march? Am I going to put one foot in front of the other and keep moving forward, get to a place where I can better deal with the enemy in front of us,

Starting point is 00:26:33 me and experience victory. And so that's where that phrase comes from. And there's a story behind that. But I do my best in the podcast. And most of our episodes, I have a co-host who is a former police officer, he's a SWAT officer, he's a professional mixed martial artist. And what we attempt to do is to provide principles and perspectives for moving forward. So life is difficult.

Starting point is 00:26:56 Life is challenging. What do you need to know to take the next step and keep taking those steps and keep moving forward so it's been a lot of fun um yeah it's been a lot of fun we're creating some new content on youtube and and really investing there which we haven't done um until this year but it's been it's been neat that's awesome man that's awesome so i know earlier i i went over the book and some of the the quick things in there that i picked up on but but i want to give you a moment to talk about all the cool things that you have going on including the book man sure well i appreciate that yeah Leadership by Design was the book you mentioned, and that was a book on leadership that I sat down and just

Starting point is 00:27:37 I figured or came to the point where I had to figure this thing out. I'm like, I've got to figure this thing out. So I'm going to write. It's just helped me process it. And it became that book. This year we'll actually put out an online course that's attached to the new edition of that book that we'll make available to people. And it just goes back to what we've been talking about, spiritual leadership, servant leadership, a clear understanding of leadership, where it comes from, and how we can apply that in our lives and homes. It's called Leadership by Design. I wrote another book called March or Die,

Starting point is 00:28:06 same as the podcast that talks about our experience in Iraq. And some small books that we've written on, post-traumatic stress, suicide, spiritual resiliency, a lot of content, a lot of resources that we put out. All of those can be found on our Mighty Oaks page. So, Mighty Oaks Programs.org. You can learn about Mighty Oaks, the work that we do. If you're a veteran, service member, first responder,

Starting point is 00:28:27 you can sign up for a program there family member friend you can learn more all of that is on that mighty oaks website awesome i will make sure that we have links to all of that in the show notes and the descriptions any other place where people can find or follow you and see some of the amazing things you have going on yeah if you're on social media we just talked about how evil it is right but we all spend a lot of time there and so if you're on social media you can find me on all the social media platforms I'm most active on Instagram and even if you're just interested in Mighty Oaks or me just look for my name Jeremy Stalllicker all of that is on that Instagram page so a lot of good I think daily content we have a daily devotional that we put out

Starting point is 00:29:10 if you're interested in that but Instagram is the place to find most of that good stuff well Jeremy man I appreciate you blessing us with your time and your wisdom I know how busy you are the fact that you could spend a few moments with us made my day brother well I appreciate it thanks for the conversation and anytime love it absolutely and for all the viewers and listeners remember your because is your superpower go unleash it thanks for tuning in to this episode of mick unplugged if today hits you hard then imagine what's next be sure to subscribe rate and share this with someone who needs it and most of all make a play and take action because the next level is already waiting for you.

Starting point is 00:29:58 Have a question or insight to share? Send us an email to hello at mickunplugged.com. Until next time, ask yourself how you can step up.

Mick Unplugged - Jeremy Stalnecker: Reveals Lessons in Leadership From Military Service

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