Mick Unplugged - Josh Drean: His Vision on AI and Culture

Episode Date: March 29, 2025

In this episode of Mick Unplugged, we dive into the dynamic world of work, technology, and culture with the visionary Josh Drean. Join host Mick Hunt as he uncovers Josh's journey from building a startup out of the Harvard Innovation Labs to pioneering sentiment analysis and exploring how emerging technologies like AI can revolutionize the workplace. Together, they explore how companies can harness AI and other technologies to enhance employee experience, culture, and productivity. With a focus on thriving at work, they discuss the modern workforce's demand for purpose, respect, and autonomy. Whether you're curious about the Work3 Institute, the future of AI in the workplace, or learning how to unlock your team's full potential, this episode is packed with insights to inspire change and innovation in your organization. Tune in for a conversation that's as deep as it is engaging, with practical tips and visionary ideas to help shape the future of work.  Takeaways: Understanding the true value of culture: It's not just policies but a felt experience that empowers and motivates employees. The synergy of AI and humanity: How balancing technological advances with human-centric approaches can revolutionize workplace productivity and satisfaction. The future demands adaptability: Traditional work models are becoming obsolete, and businesses must evolve to meet modern expectations of transparency, autonomy, and purpose. Sound Bites: "Leaders don't lead businesses, they lead their culture. And it’s the culture that truly drives success." "The future belongs to those who combine AI and humanity to create a dynamic workplace solution." "When Great Resignation 2.0 hits, companies not focusing on employee experience today might be left behind tomorrow." Quote by Mick: "Motivation gets an employee to sign on the dotted line; inspiration is what brings them back day after day."   Connect & Discover Josh LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshdrean/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshdrean/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@joshdrean Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=josh+drean Books and Articles: Employment is Dead: How Disruptive Technology is Revolutionizing the Way We Work    FOLLOW MICK ON:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mickunplugged/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mickunplugged/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mickunplugged  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mickhunt/Website: https://www.mickhuntofficial.com                                                              Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mick-unplugged/    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to Mick Unplugged, where we ignite potential and fuel purpose. Get ready for raw insights, bold moves, and game-changing conversations. Buckle up. Here's Mick. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today, we have a brilliant one for you. We're talking about a groundbreaking trailblazer in the arena of work and technology and AI and just culture. A person I've looked up to for a very long time, a person I'm very honored to call a friend. We're talking about the one, the only, the ground breaker,

the trailblazer, the visionary, the guy that's gonna to lead work future into the future. My man, Mr. Josh Dre. Josh, how are you doing today, brother? Josh Dre Mike, thanks for that intro, man. I always feel like, you know, an MMA fighter coming out of the tunnel when you give those intros, it's so powerful. Josh Dre We're going to get your favorite hip hop song and play under it. And that can just be your intro as you move forward. Cause I know Josh is a hip hop guy, right?

Josh Dre That's it. Big hip hop guy. Big heavy hitter here. There you go. Josh, man, like you're someone I've been following for a long time. You know, we talked off, off camera, just on what you've meant to me over the last few years, right? Like someone I really follow that I feel like we share a lot of the same pillars and values when it comes to leadership and culture. My question Josh, when did that start for you? When did you know that that was gonna be the niche,

that was going to be the place that you could leave your mark? Yeah, I appreciate that. And I do feel like we share that ethos, right? I think we both are in this for a lot of different reasons, but one of the foundational reasons is because we want people to achieve their full potential, whatever that looks like and feels like. And it would be so disheartening to go through your entire life and recognize that you only achieved a small part of that full potential.

The reason we put out content, the reason I'm active on my socials and the reason why I follow you is because it's interesting to see how many people, I hate the word sell out, but they get stuck. That was the big raison d'etre, if you will, that I brought to a young startup that I was building out of the Harvard Innovation Labs, we were essentially pioneering sentiment analysis in real time, which is a fancy way of saying, let's ask employees what they need to achieve their potential. Let's ask them what they need to be satisfied at work and then do everything we can as a

business to give it to them because the age-old adage, a happy employee is a productive employee holds true no matter the economic circumstances. And that's what really drove me is this young startup, right? We were so interested in helping employees be better at work and we started to recognize all of the challenges that came along with that. Some of them were motivational, right? An individual might not be interested in achieving their potential.

They just want to kind of coast and do their work. And that's your prerogative. But there was also a systemic problem that a lot of companies weren't established or set up structurally to help employees unlock their potential. They were set up to drive shareholder value, which is nice for shareholders. And there wasn't a lot there for employees to do more than just going and collecting your paycheck, doing your nine to five, learning the skills that you need to do the job that your company wants you to do. And so I guess that kind of kickstarted me into this world of work. Understand, like

we just published a book, it is called Employment is Dead, How Disruptive Technologies Are Revolutionizing the Way We Work. And the entire theme is that the traditional model of employment is not set up to unlock the potential of employees. And so we need to change the model if we want to see a change in individuals. That was so deep, man.

That was so deep. And one of the things I know was an overarching theme for what you do was talking about thriving at work. And I think that there are a lot of things that, I don't want to say organizations do wrong, because I don't think things are always intentional. I think it's just awareness is sometimes not where it needs to be. When you talk about thriving at work and making that a central theme of your message, how does that help organizations? Break down thriving at work and what that means to you and what organizations can be doing.

Yeah. So one word that you've already mentioned is the culture, right? What is the culture of the organization? And I've been doing this long enough to know that there was kind of this era in the 80s and 90s of motivational speakers getting up on stage and saying, you know, I've been doing this long enough to know that there was kind of this era in the 80s and 90s of motivational speakers getting up on stage and saying, you need to build a culture. We have Stephen R. Covey, who's talking about your standards, ideals, and values. If you can identify what the culture is, then you can have a successful culture. And a lot of companies jumped on board.

They wrote it all out. They put it up in the break room and they said, this is what you need to do to be successful. Just follow our model for culture. And what we are seeing now in the mid 2020s is that that's not enough. That establishing or defining the culture is yes, a very important part of it. But what about the subculture?

Like are executives actually living the culture? Are your employees feeling the culture of the organization? Or is there something else going on there? Because we didn't actually take the time to ask employees what they wanted the culture to be. We just declared a few executives high up in the organization said, this is what the culture is going to be. But it's that culture adoption from your frontline employees is what matters most. And the reason why I'm talking about that is because employees can't have the experience that will unlock their potential unless they have the environment and the tools that they need to be successful.

You're exactly right, man. I have this quote and it says, I have this for leaders. Leaders don't lead businesses, they lead their culture. And it's the culture that actually leads the business. And so I love the fact that culture is a big thing because it is for me as well too. It's one of those things that people talk and talk and talk about, but to me, culture is felt, right?

Culture is seen and culture is a four-letter word, C-A-R-E, right? Like if I care, if we have a culture of care, everything is felt around that. I don't need a fancy mission statement. I don't need a vision statement that nobody on the team knows other than the CEO and the CEO doesn't have it memorized, right? Culture is something that you feel. Josh, what's your take on that? It is. And what is unfortunate is that companies will give lip service. I'm not saying all companies. Most companies will give lip service to what we call employee experience design. They will talk about culture. They will get excited about the perks. There's snacks in the break room. We have an amazing culture.

Let's do hot yoga. It's an amazing culture. And what they're really doing is like offering nice perks, which might be above and beyond the perks that you see in your contract, which is here's how much I'm being paid. Here's the hours I need to work. Right. That is not culture. That is nice perks to keep your people happy. What culture really is, is understanding what people experience working for you. And if there are any pain points or obstacles, working to remove them. And unfortunately, there are certain pain points that we can't overcome, and companies, well, we can if we're thinking about the long-term goals. However, a lot of times we just look at the short-term shareholder value.

What can we do this quarter to push revenue forward? We don't have time for your touchy-feely, leave your emotions at home is typically how it used to be, right? Whereas now it's like bring the whole person to work. Well, we are bringing the whole person to work, especially Gen Z. Gen Z is bringing their whole selves to work

and they are pushing back on this narrative of work is contractual. It's a contract. Just come and do the work and be done with it and have work-life balance. They're like, no, I want to know why I'm doing this work. I want to know why you aren't able to help me in these certain ways. And so you go so much deeper, Mick, which hopefully we can unpack a little bit here. No, for sure. I mean, you know, Mackenzie did a study and 76% of workers care more about purpose than they do anything else. They want their, not their work to be valued, them as an individual to be valued and the things that they do to deliver purpose. And I thought that that was so impactful because again, I've been saying for years, it's not

about motivation anymore, right? The boomer error, right? The Gen Y error, like it was all about the paycheck, the benefits, the retirement that comes with it, right? Well now my kids, right? They're like, yeah, dad, if I want to make a million dollars, I can go get the side hustle over here and do that. They're not thinking about a pension, a 401k, because it's a different valuation for them. I think the shift needs to go from motivation to inspiration.

Motivation is what gets that employee to sign that contract to work with you. Inspiration is what brings them back tomorrow. Because if Josh isn't inspired to come back, Josh can't go start his own business. And I tell leaders all the time, that is what you're competing against, right? Like you're not competing against Pepsi or Nike

or AT&T or Amazon, like you're competing with that person who realistically, for their purpose, could just go start their own business doing something that they love. And so you need to tie that into what they're doing in that nine to five or nine to nine, whatever it is. So again, I love your feedback on that as well. Yeah, my goodness, there's so much to unpack. You're absolutely right. And when you really laser in on that purpose, you start to see, you ask the right questions, right?

Like, well, why do employees not feel purpose at work? Well, they aren't doing what they love. Can't we as an organization allow them to do what they love and still get the work done? Or do we just need them to be a cog in the machine to do the work? And you mentioned the benefits of a traditional employment model, which is security. I have a 401k. I can retire comfortably. I have a nice house. A lot of these perks, or I wouldn't even call

them perks. These are just like essentials to live. Right. They're like not even available anymore. You know, like this younger generation is seeing their parents unable to retire. They are working well beyond 65, 67 into the 70s. They can't retire. They are seeing what's happening with social security. Like there, a lot of these assurances are not assurances anymore. And so they are pushing back on the narrative of like, Oh yeah, I'll just come and sit in my seat and I'll work and I'll have that purpose. It's a structural issue.

I love the way that you just framed it, right? People the way that I like to say it is when the great resignation 2.0 happens, when the employer market swings back to an employee market and employees have options again, they're not just going to jump from job to job. They're going to jump to more attractive alternatives for work. And when that happens, and they can probably find the security that they want and they need over there, what does that mean for corporations who are like, culture, let's go, let's motivation, let's go. What they're going to find is like, oh, there's actually more that employees want need

out of this relationship than a contract. That's it. That's it. So Josh, I know you don't like bragging. You're not going to talk about all the amazing things that you have done. So this is where I, the words of me and me only get to brag about my friend. The Work 3 Institute might be the greatest thing that I have ever seen, heard about, been a part of.

For those that don't know about the Work 3 Institute, one, let's break down what it is. Let's break down how it's helping individuals and companies and then Josh, like what was the brainchild around that? I know I just gave me three and I never do that, but three is our favorite number, right? So unpack it together, starting with that last one, right? The work three Institute is a play on web three.

Web three is supposed to be the next iteration of the internet. How are we moving beyond just looking at our screens to be within interactive worlds? What do our relationships look like in what we used to call the metaverse, which is still moving forward, by the way, if anyone's curious. So the Work3 Institute, we essentially help companies marry emerging technologies with workforce strategies. If you are a digital first, human centric leader who says, I value my people, I'm not trying to get rid of them for AI, I value my people and I want them to use AI to become better. We say, well, here's how you do it. And so what we've seen is that there are a lot of younger, hungry executives who are

like jumping into these new work models with both feet. And we provide the roadmap. And that's part of our book. Debra Perry, Proshony and I have published. It's the last chapter where we provide a 13-step roadmap on how do you even do it? Like, is it buying VR headsets for all of your employees? Is it going to a virtual office? Which, you know, that trend has kind of died off. And I would say it's not that, the surface, no, like none of that. Really what we're saying is there are 10 operating principles of the Work 3 Institute.

These are the non-negotiables of the modern workforce. And I talk to HR leaders all over the world and I say, can you offer any of your employees these? And if they say no, my simple question is, why should they work for you then? Just to name a couple, transparency. Employees expect transparency from their company. They don't want you to lie to them. They don't want you to make up a story, to rebrand their experience.

This is what their experience feels like. They want to know why, if you are transparent and honest with them, trust comes back into the relationship. They want autonomy to make decisions. Right now, they can't make decisions because a manager micromanages them or they have to do things a very specific way, which doesn't really feel right based on what we are seeing on the front line. So we need to give them autonomy to make real time decisions based on their own knowledge and then ownership Give them ownership in in the work that they're doing. This isn't You know an ESOP which is giving them arbitrary equity in the company

It's contribution based compensation a stake in the value they generate for the company So we don't have to go off on those, but essentially it's, look, the modern workforce has these expectations. They're not just going to work for a paycheck. They want to be cut in on the deal. They want a relationship with you that is two-way communication, not just you telling you what to do.

And if you can't give it to them, again, they're probably going to bounce to a Dow or decentralized autonomous organization. Absolutely. What type of results are you seeing within the Institute now? Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting because a lot of these technologies still have to prove themselves, right?

A lot of people are waiting on the wing for Web3 to see any use cases. There are some late adopters to AI who are like, we're gonna see how other companies are using AI and then jump in. So again, they have to prove themselves. The case studies are there. It's hard to see, but what we're seeing

is what has been said a lot, which is a very nuanced approach, people-centric, focusing in on your people. That's what's gonna make high-performing teams. All day. And one of the things I love about you, Josh, and you say this a lot and shameless plug for Josh's YouTube channel, by the way, because I heard you say this probably 30 times there, AI plus humanity equals the perfect workplace solution, right?

I took liberties on saying that, but that's kind of how I grabbed that. How can organizations and companies, one, not be afraid of AI, two, not look at AI as a true replacement of humans and humanity, and making it work? Because to me, that's where you get the dynamic true workforce. Like if me as a company, if we embrace AI,

and we're using it for the betterment of what we do to make humans better, to have true human interaction, that's a huge win across the board. For Josh, man, and the things that you're teaching, talk to us a little bit about AI and humanity together. Josh McClendon Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. There's two camps. This is an oversimplification, but there are companies who recognize that your workforce is expensive. You spend the most money on your people. And so if we can reduce the workforce using AI, we save money. That to me is a very closed universe, kind of negative perspective.

And then there are companies who say, we could use AI to supercharge our efforts. We can 10X and 50X and 100X our outcomes if we can train our people to use AI, if we can leverage this in a way that is still mutually beneficial. And I am very much in that camp. I think that we're gonna see companies probably go fully automated. And I mean, to me, it just kind of, you look at the foundation of what a business is designed for is to drive value for people.

And there are businesses that can be automated fully and it's coming. So we need to be aware of that. But I think the companies that are going to win are the ones that say, Hey, let's help you learn AI. Let's implement it into our ethos. Let's how can we achieve our purpose with AI and they move in that direction are going to see much greater returns. No, I totally agree. You know, even for my Even for my teams, I've run three different companies and we look at, all right, what are some things that AI can actually do that are part of your job function?

To make you thrive at work, to make work happier for you and not just AI, but also technology. Because all of a sudden in the last two years, Josh, like everything technology has been lumped into AI and like that's also just not the case too, right? Machine learning and AI are not the same thing. Bots and AI are not the same thing. All are important to technology. So we look at how can we utilize technology to maybe take a job function that was repetitive

that you no longer have to do so that now you can be that dynamic human who can talk to customers, who can close deals, who can do different facets that you don't have to be transactionless anymore. We do a lot internally with letting technology, again, I'm not just saying AI, but letting technology handle some of the transactional things that usually keep your employees up at night because it's like, oh, I've got this thing and I forgot to do this thing. And if I didn't do this thing, then something might be broken. Well, technology can handle that. And now this human can be the

leader that they are, because I don't care about titles. Most of the people on your team are leaders in their household. They're leaders in their community. They know how to decision-make. their leaders in their community, they know how to decision make. Now I have a team of pure leaders that can now help me grow the business, change the business, adapt the business. The things that as leaders we really want, I let AI or I let technology handle that mundane stuff so that my team can really focus on being leaders. I love that, Mick. That is 100% the right direction. And just listening to you talk about that, I was like, wow, Mick really has the right vision here of what it can be and what it should be. When I look at growing businesses in the future, I think about what we as humans value. And there are the one presenters, if you will,

who value money and value power and value sending rockets to the moon. Like, and humanity needs that to a degree, but does it have to be just a few people? Can't we all go? Can't we all work on this project together? Right, right. And that's, I think the veil is coming off a little bit. I mean, I spend a lot of time on TikTok and I see

the younger generation not really putting up with poor behavior because they know how exploited they have been, how exploited they are. And so there are some interesting things coming here, but I feel like when you are rooted in kind of that human-centric purpose, that's when you start to see success. I love it, man. I love it. So in your work, in your findings, what are some things that organizations are getting wrong

that they should be getting right? You know, we hit on culture. What are some other things that you're seeing organizations have big misses on? Well, I mentioned this earlier about the employer market. Right now, we are squarely in an employer market. What that means is that the boss has all of the control. That wasn't the case during the great resignation when employees had a lot of different job options. They were negotiating for higher salaries, they were jumping from job to job and getting promotions, there was a lot

happening there for employees. And when that's the case, we spent a lot of time doing employee experience design, which is, well, how do we attract top talent? How do we win top talent away from our competitors? It's because we either spend more, we are competitively priced, or we have these cool perks, or a huge differentiator is like, we might not pay you as much, but the work that we're doing at our company matters. And it feels right. And what I'm noticing is that in an employer market, you kind of see the wall fall down. And like, there are several companies that don't care

about that anymore. They are just like, Oh, we've got the power. So let's pay our people less. Let's do mass layoffs. Let's get rid of coffee in the break room because it's expensive. And so they're doing all of these like short-term cost cutting plays. And that's what we're doing wrong, Mick. We are taking away the experience when we should be even in an employer's market ramping up that experience because what happens when great resignation 2.0 comes around and I Will say one last thing about that Gallup just posted the worst numbers on respect that we've seen since they've started tracking those numbers only 37% of workers feel respected,

which I was told that that is just table stakes. That is the baseline. Everyone deserves respect at work, and yet only 37% of people feel respected. That's much less than half. So what are we doing wrong here? So I'm gonna ask you, Josh, why do we think that is? What's the driving factor behind that,

in your opinion? I mean, if I were to point it back to the book, I would say the system is broken, employment is dead. We are running on an antiquated model for work that, sure, it worked great during the industrial revolution where you had to push a button all day, every day, and efficiency came from

tracking how many times you can press that button. We live in the age of information, the age of AI. We need to move with much more agility and speed. The only way we can do that is if we evolve the model. And so I personally believe that that model comes from a decentralized version of work. And what that means is that we as leaders imbue power into our employees, that we give them decision-making power and collaboration power, and we don't silo them so much. We don't try to control them so much. When you embrace kind of that open and transparent work model, that's when you unlock the true potential of

your people. You could have said it better, man. Cannot have said it better. So Josh, I would be remiss if I didn't talk to you or ask you about the book that you co-authored. Talk to us a little bit about that project. And then I'd love to talk about what you have coming up next. So let's go to the book, man. It's really interesting. Deborah and I met a few years ago. Deborah is a bestselling author.

This is her sixth book. And I was web advisor at the Harvard Innovation Labs at the time. So I was really interested in these young startups who were interested in pushing the ball forward through web 3 and some of these emerging technologies. So I started applying to speak at certain conferences and she was running one of those conferences. She saw my application and called me and said, hey, this is a book. Should we write it together? And what started off as kind of a, let's see what happens, turned into a selling our project to Harvard Business Review. And you know, the book just published a couple of weeks ago, which we're really excited about. Honestly, the title itself, we put it on there thinking like, this is what we want to say, but I doubt HBR is going to keep it. As HBR is, you know, the high level executives who run on an employment model and that's

how it's always been, there's no way they're going to keep it. But they did. Which just goes to show the stickiness of the idea. And I want to clarify that we're not saying employment is dead because AI is taking your jobs. You are unemployed. That is not it at all. What we are saying is that these traditional work models are failing to adapt to the modern needs of the workforce and that emerging technologies are going to bring back purpose, bring back autonomy, bring back ownership in ways that we previously haven't seen. I can't wait to dive into it, man. Like I can't wait for my autograph copy. Right.

But no, I mean, from again, just following you forever and knowing the human that you are, dude, I can't wait to break that open and just like take copious notes of just everything that you have, because you are in my mind, you are the source of modern employee engagement. You're the source of modern culture. And that's why, again, I've been a huge fan of yours for years, brother. Hey, I will trade you a signed copy of our book for a signed Mick Unplugged podcast polo. Those things are fresh. Consider that done.

Consider that done. I'll make sure we get that for you for sure. So Josh, what else do you have coming up, man? Like what's on the horizon for the rest of 2025 for Josh D? Yeah, again, just kind of goes back to our purpose, right? I'm very passionate about helping companies evolve into a work three model. I'm going to keep my head down on that. three model. I'm going to keep my head down on that. I spend so much time, you know, building content as well coaching and YouTube and tick tock. So I'm hoping to continue to drive value there where it is. We're going to do a collab reel, which I'm excited about. So yeah, just keeping the, the engine hot. I love it, dude. I absolutely love it. So where can people follow and find you? I'll

make sure obviously they they're gonna have it in the show notes. If you follow me, then trust me, you've seen me like reshare a lot of Josh's stuff because he's one of my favorite followers out there in the space that we collide in. I'm so easy to find at Josh Drean. That's all of my emails.

That's my LinkedIn, my TikTok. I make it so easy. Just Google Josh Drean. You'll find me there. I'd love to connect. And yeah, just send me a quick message. I am a millennial at heart. So if you send a DM, I will answer it immediately. I think that's the best way to connect. So what Josh is saying is don't email him and don't call him. You should definitely be in his DMs.

There you go. I will not be listening to any voicemails. I will not be answering any phone calls. So don't even try. There you go. There you go. Josh, bro, I am so honored to have you on. It was just enormous of you to take some time and drop wisdom to the listeners and viewers. So thank you more than you know, man.

And anytime you want to be back on, I got you covered. Appreciate that, Mick. Thanks for all you do. You got it. And for all the listeners and viewers, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it. Thank you for tuning in to Mick Unplugged. Keep pushing your limits, embracing your purpose,

and chasing greatness. Until next time, stay unstoppable.