Mick Unplugged - Mac Barnhardt | Turning Failures into Strengths: Mac Barnhardt’s Journey in the Golf Industry

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Welcome to "Mick Unplugged," where we dive deep into the realms of life, sports, and personal growth with some of the most intriguing minds out there. In today's episode, we have a special guest, Mac Barnhardt , who brings over 30 years of invaluable experience in the golf industry. Mac's journey is a testament to the power of perseverance, learning from failures, and the importance of genuine communication in an increasingly disconnected world. In this enlightening conversation, Mac opens up about the highs and lows of his career, stressing the need for mental toughness, holistic balance, and the critical role of parental support in young athletes' lives. He emphasizes the value of authentic relationships and servant leadership, drawing wisdom from his own experiences with high-profile figures and mentors. Mac also shares his insights on the evolving landscape of golf, from the impact of technological advancements to the significance of brand management for modern golfers. We'll hear personal anecdotes, like those that highlight the challenges and triumphs of transitioning from amateur to professional golf, and the delicate balance of instruction versus over-coaching. Join us as we explore Mac Barnhardt 's philosophy on work, life, and the sport he loves, and gain insights that are as applicable off the course as they are on. This episode promises to be both motivational and thought-provoking, so sit back, relax, and enjoy "Mick Unplugged" with Mac Barnhardt .See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What led you to focus on building that holistic support system around golfers? There's a guy named Derek Smith. He's one of my business mentors. And he said, you know, talent minus distractions equals performance. And distractions aren't necessarily negative things. When you're working with these golfers, how do you help balance the physical, the mental, the emotional aspects of not only the game, but life for them? There's a thin line between instruction and destruction. And a great instructor knows not to cross that line. I try to explain to them

that rest is number one, recovery, your training, physical training. Tiger brought that into the game. The mental health, not just the mental health of how you think on the golf course, but the mental health of yourself. And the last thing you need to worry about is your physical golf swing. PR slash publicity is more important than marketing. But I'd love to get your answer on that because I'm not saying marketing isn't important. Everybody sees the big guys. They don't realize you have a guy that's 75th in the world, how good this guy is. But he's not popular.

The way that kind of works is PR is getting out there what they're associated with. Welcome to Mick Unplugged, where we ignite potential and fuel purpose. Get ready for raw insights, bold moves, and game-changing conversations. Buckle up. Here's Mick. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today's guest has an incredible career shaping the lives of some of golf's most celebrated athletes. As a sports agent and performance coach, he's redefined athlete representation by emphasizing the importance of building a supportive and high-functioning team around players.

But beyond simply being an agent, he has taken a holistic approach, focusing on reducing distractions, which most of us have, and nurturing players' careers over the long term. Please join me in welcoming the visionary, the determined, High Point University's own Mr. Mac Barnhart. Mac, how you doing, brother? I'm great, Mac. That's kind of you to say. Thank you. Glad to be here. Absolutely. Mac, so been a huge fan of you. We've been connected through Rose over at Players for Good. You're a supporter of Rose and everything that she's doing. And when she sent your information my way, I was like, are you kidding me?

I get to have Mac on the show. So Mac, I'm excited to have you on, brother. That's kind of you. Thank you. I'm happy to be here, Mac. It's fun. Yes, sir. So let's get into it, Mac. One of the things at Mac Unplugged that we really talk about and focus on is your because, right? Like that why behind the why, you know, the old saying, if you ask why seven times, you get the reason, right? Like that why behind the why, you know, the old saying, if you ask why seven times, you get the root reason, right? And so I believe that that's your because. And so for Mac, what's been your because recently, man? Like what's been Mac's reason, his purpose, his journey? You know, it's really never changed, Mick. My dad was a pro baseball player and then went back to

Duke University and became a, got his doctorate in theology, became a Methodist minister. And I did not get along in church very well. Indoors is not my place. My dad allowed me not to go to church, which was kind of fun. He did expose me to a lot of other theories, the Tao Te Ching, Islam, about every religion you can imagine wanting me to understand where religion comes from. So I go to, I go to High Point University. I play golf there. And my dad went to school late enough that some of his theological professors were still at High Point. A guy named Dr. Earl Crow. And I got so interested in going and learning. It wasn't religious. It was learning the theologies and stuff. And I even called my dad one day and I said, Dad, I think I want to do what you do. And he laughed so hard that he says, I've never heard anyone against organized religion more than you.

And he made a comment. He says, Mac, minister means to serve and you can serve from any place in life. And lo and behold, I end up managing golfers and that means serving golfers and not from a religious standpoint, but from, you know, a little more holistic, but you're talking a very, very individual sport. These guys are alone a lot. They're alone in their thoughts on the golf course. They're alone in the hotel room eight hours a day. And it's a struggle.

You know, baseball players have teammates. You know, they have peers. These guys, their peers want to beat them. So it's a lonely thing. So my becaus is essentially is kind of doing what my dad did is serve. That's amazing, man. I didn't know that about your dad. It's funny. Aside from, you know, I'm a Tar Heel. So when you say the word Duke, I get, you know, workout in hives. But aside from that, I have a really good friend who got his theology degree at Duke as well, too. So totally,

totally understand that, Mac. And I can totally see how you've taken that servant mindset, right? Like the servant leader approach. And you've kind of redefined how golfers are managed, right? And I know, Mac, you're humble. You're not going to brag about it. So this is Mick bragging on that. Okay, you're humble. You're not going to brag about it. So this is Mick bragging on that. Okay, Mick. You're kind. Thank you. But you've changed how golfers are managed.

So what led you to focus on building that holistic support system around golfers or around the players? It wasn't just me. When I got into the business in Richmond, Virginia, there was a gentleman named Vinny Giles, who's probably one of the best amateurs to ever play the game. He's won every major amateur event. And it was his philosophy. He called us a players management group. That's what we do. We're for the players. So he instilled that in me, you know, and he had partners. I got to throw them out, Vernon Spratley and Dave Merigie, who were instrumental in getting me going in this business. But he is the one that kind of taught me. And then I got, as I signed more and more clients, I got to learn real time what they were going through in the struggles. And then as time has gone on, now social media, you know, the advent of the cell phone, texting, instant communication. And so it kind of evolved more and more that you start realizing that these kids that are playing golf now as pros have been playing since they were four years old. And their parents have told them how good they are. And then their high school coach told them how good they are.

And their college coach, the ones that I end up with are the guys that made it. And like it or not, their worth in life is golf. Their value is what they shoot. And I'm not saying anybody made them feel that way. That's just how they feel. So I felt an obligation to try to fill some of those other voids. You mentioned distractions. There's a guy named Derek Smith. He's one of my business mentors. And he said, talent minus distractions equals performance. And distractions aren't necessarily negative things. When you win a golf tournament, your media obligations and you get a lot of new friends when you win a tournament and get rich. And those are distractions. And then you get married and you have kids. These

are all distractions. They're not negative distractions because people think this thing. So it's kind of, I try to take the obligation to try to fill the void on some of the other things. I can't help them play better in the sense of getting on the golf course. I can try to manage a lot of the off course stuff that happens to that will distract them. I didn't revolutionize it except for the sense that everybody calls you an agent and that means you're going out and selling those guys. Nobody sells a golfer. They play well, the phone rings. They don't play well, I don't care who you call, they're not doing a deal with you. So I need them to play well.

That's awesome, brother. That's awesome. And you've worked with some iconic players. We talked about me being a Tar Heel and Davis Love III comes to the top of the list. What's been one of the most rewarding aspects of guiding, and I'm using the word guiding, of guiding high-profile athletes during their careers? I mean, obviously, Davis was with her 30 years and the wins and the accomplishments are great. I take more pride in the fact of some of the downtimes. great, the accomplishments are great. I take more pride in the fact of some of the downtimes. These guys all have real lives. They have deaths and families, they have tragedies. And I've taken more pride in helping them through those things because when

they're winning, they don't need me. They've got plenty of people around them telling them all the great things. And I try to help manage that. But I take a lot of pride in getting them through life, not necessarily signing a big contract. And they're fine. Look, when you sign these huge contracts, there's celebrations. I just feel better. And I can't speak that who I've ever touched. My clients, we don't talk about. But I hope that I've been there at times when no one else would have wanted to be there. That's amazing, brother. Totally amazing. I'm not sure. I've had it used against me a lot when recruiting because people say, well, I'm not very aggressive and I'm not being who I am. And I'm like thinking, you don't really

have to be aggressive in this game. Davis Love was not difficult to sell. I promise. I just had to get the pricing right. I just had to know the market value. But anybody that knew that guy would sign him in a second if they could afford him. Talking about pricing and market, but pre-96, before Tiger Wood showed up, it was one set of numbers. And then Tiger shows up and it was, I can't even tell you how much Tiger affected the game and still does to some point. Yeah. I'd love to elaborate a little bit about that. Your role as a player agent, when you have a force like a Tiger Woods that comes in and resets the market, essentially, what was Mack going through to manage that? Because I'm sure you had clients that were like, oh, well, you know, Tiger's getting this, right? Or then how do you manage expectations as well too? Because again, none of that is easy when you have a new force that totally changes

the landscape of golf. Again, look, you know how things go when you're doing it. It's just, it's, you're in a washing machine. You have no idea. And looking back, you're like, man, look at some of the cool things I did. And of course I learned the most from the mistakes that we made from it. I remember signing a contract with Davis in 96. And it was a big enough contract that we kind of giggled, but we saved the pen. And that was pre-Tiger. That's right.

Before Tiger really had. In 99, we signed a deal that made that deal look like a box of popcorn. We didn't even keep the pen, but we giggled about it. And so it wasn't a matter of, you had to kind of figure the market, but this is where the great thing about golf is. The companies that are in golf, Tylas, you know, Strixon, the guys that worked there were a very close knit family in a way. You know, what equipment they play and stuff, but no one's ever in there trying, I can't go in and get one over on anybody. They know, right? And if they ever get one over on me, we'll figure out

that they got one over on me. So it's kind of easy that everybody, as Tiger's deal started coming out in theory, we don't know really what they were, but the offers that were coming from the companies to my players were substantially higher. So I was getting an idea of the market value. But no one really knows. And like I say, none of us. I don't think there's anybody in this business. And there's, like I said, most of the people that I work against are my friends. There's no one out doing some deals that are 50% better.

Maybe they get 4% better or something like that. But the relationship between golfers and their clubs and the clubs and the balls they play, it's very important. That's their performance. That's their weaponry. So it isn't all about money sometimes. It's got to be about what's the best. And that's what we have to struggle with is we may get a really big deal from a club they can't play. And so we have to talk them down to a lower number which makes them earn more money on the golf

course it's a crazy balance sometimes amazing amazing you know one of the things that i wanted to ask you because i feel like you're the right person that can answer this question and i don't even mean in golf i mean in the world of business you know in the past year, year and a half, I've seen a big difference between PR and marketing. And I'm being very honest when I say this, Mac. Two years ago, I would have told you they were the same thing. Now I know there is a distinct difference and I'm almost leaning towards PR slash publicity is more important than marketing. But I'd love to get your answer on that because I'm not saying marketing isn't important, but you know, when you're not the superstar, right? Like to me, visibility is what's more important, but I'd love to get your,

your answer in response to that. Oh, absolutely. I mean, everybody sees the big guys, you know, they don't realize, you know, you have a guy that's 75th in the world, how good this guy is, but he's not popular. The way that kind of works is PR is getting out there what they're associated with. We have clients that are outdoorsmen, fishermen. So a lot of the PR around that is having them fish or hunt or whatever they're doing so that companies that are in that business will be attracted to a certain player. And so when you're presenting this player, it's an authentic relationship. And that's what the PR is about. You know, if most of our guys are from the Southeast, obviously being in St. Simons Island, but so there's a lot of fishing and hunting and Bass Pro Shops has been partners with some of our clients and still are. But what

we always want to do, we use the PR to authenticate the relationship with who they're representing. I mean, there's golfers out there wearing logos that I promise you, they don't use their products. You can see it. They don't use it. Nothing wrong with that. But those are tough ones because these, when you see a logo on a shirt, that's one thing. But these guys have time. They've got to go spend three, four or five days with these companies. And to have a guy walk in and not use the product they're representing, being unauthentic doesn't work. If it's an authentic relationship and you go in, these guys are enjoying, all right, man, you've got to go on a hunt with Bass Pro Shops or a fish. I'm gone. They'll skip a tournament.

So the PR part is to try to get enough information out there to the corporate world to show who would be an authentic partner to them. And so then when I'm marketing them to them, they can see the authenticity. And a lot of social media goes into that now, right? It's crazy, right? Like 10, 15 years ago, there were a bunch of advertising agencies, right? Like tons and tons and tons. Now they're like very few and far between. There's still some big ones out there, but now it's all social media managing agencies. And it's crazy to see how just the business world has changed from, you know, I was talking to someone a few weeks ago and I used the term

ad agency and they had no idea what I was talking about. I was like, sorry, I'm dating myself a little bit. It'd be like saying, have you been, what travel agency do you use? Right. A travel agency. I'll just go online and book my flight and go, you know, your paper ticket, you know, you hear those things, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's wild, Mac. It's wild. Well, I'm sitting in Austin at my son's studio right now. I'm visiting him and I just came and he's a Twitch performer or whatever, YouTube editor. He's got his own studio here. My background there is where I snowboard in Canada. He put that up there for me as kind of a, but that's how much has changed. My son didn't go to college. He's living here, makes his money behind this microphone, editing and then all kinds of things. So it's changed so rapidly. And now with AI coming, I have no idea what's going to happen.

I mean, we're looking at a whole like I say, I used a phone that had a rotary dial. And that blows my mind that there's people governing our nation that did that because I'm thinking I don't think they know what's going on. I don't think they could. We're in it and we can't keep up. It's crazy, Mac. It's crazy. I don't think they know what's going on. I don't think they could. We're in it and we can't keep up with it. It's crazy, Mac. It's crazy. You know, being a big follower of yours, I know one of the things that you always emphasize is that golfers today are essentially the CEO of their own brands. Correct. How do you help players build and manage their brand? And then my follow up question is going to be because they're CEOs, you also have to help them manage their teams? And then my follow-up question is going to be, because they're CEOs, you also have to help them manage their teams for long-term success. I love to hear how you do that, because I think our listeners and viewers are going to be very intrigued by the business tips

that you're about to give. It's a very difficult thing. You're talking about a kid that 95% have never had a job. And they've had a high school coach and drove the van. And then they've got, they go to a college. Most of these guys went to colleges with credible practice facilities, private jets to their things, and they turn pro. And now they are essentially the owner of a business that could be a multi, multi-million dollar business. And they've, they don't even, they've never had a job. They've never had a manager. And so it's kind of an easy thing to go in and say, hey, this is how it's going to go. But it's not as easy as you think because they've got an instructor. They've got a trainer. They may have

a psychologist, a nutritionist, a stats person. And so now a caddy, I mean, they have to pay these people. So they've never heard of a 1099. So we have to set up the whole process of how to pay these folks and how to manage them. The relationship between a caddy and a player, you can't have the caddy come and say, hey, you shorted me 200 bucks. Don't tell your boss that. Behind the scenes, we handle everything so that they can do their job together. And the business tips are easy, is that pretend when these guys managing, you know, we're trying to teach them, how do you want to be managed? Do you want your caddy to surge a certain way? Well, you're going to have to work with your guys in a certain way.

And the communication is the toughest part, is communication. Golfers generally do not like our altercations. Unless they're mad, they stay away from it. They will shy away from saying anything. I've had guys keep caddies way too long because they will not have a true conversation. So a lot of this is just trying to foster communication between the player and the people that are working with him. Not for him, but with him. And that's a tough thing we have to do is these guys are your partners.

You know, CEOs have COOs, CFOs. And each one of these people are components and they're not your employees. And it's easier to push than pull. Right. And we try to help them. And that's about a five or six year process. After about six years, they figure it out and they kind of handle their own. Early on, they have to. It's a tough thing. Go from. And you got to remember, while you're doing this, they're not flying private anymore. They're driving Tahos with their stuff in the back of the car. They're playing mini tours. They're traveling to Asia. They're traveling to South America, not staying in great hotels as they did in college. So there's an adjustment from there. So balancing all those things and making it understand that they're partners, we try to make

sure that they realize that they're their partners, they're teammates. And if we can create that teammate atmosphere, that kind of helps down the road. That's awesome, brother. And you hit on a couple of other things that I want to unpack right there. The many hats that a golfer wears internally, right? So, you know, the physical aspect of the game, the mental aspect, the emotional aspect of managing their own brand for the first time, or even if you're doing it 20 plus years, it's not like the load decreases, right? So when you're working with these golfers, how do you help balance that, the physical, the mental, the emotional aspects of not only the game, but life for them? Well, obviously it's not easy. Everything's a juggle because you're dealing with ever-changing atmospheres, right? I mean, you know, one event

can change your whole life in a second. You know, kids win majors. That's why you see a young kid win a major and they disappear. They're not, no one's prepared for it. I've had several kids when majors and I've seen the mistakes that we've made and how we've handled the aftermath of that. So you keep learning on itself. When a kid turns pro, I mean, by the time they're ready to play at that level, I mean, physically, they got it. I'm talking about as far as the golf swing. And that's one of the biggest struggles is the first thing they do is think they have to be better physically. And which causes this thing, because we call it, there's a thin line between instruction and destruction. And a great instructor knows not to cross that line. Most of these guys, if they have ever have a mistake, it will not be because

they're under-instructed. They will be over-instructed. So we've got to kind of balance, and these teachers make a lot of money, right? So what do you do if you're getting paid a lot of money to a guy? You teach, sometimes beyond the need. I try to explain to them that rest is number one. Recovery, your training, physical training. Tiger brought that into the game. The mental health, not just the mental health of how you think on the golf course, but the mental health of yourself. And the last thing you need to worry about is your physical golf swing. That's why when you go back in life and look at all the people, all the great

champions, not one of them swung like the other, but yet they think they've got to swing better. And that's the biggest challenge is to get them to understand that your rest, your physical recovery, and that your mental health is more important than what your golf swing's doing. Because these guys are so good and they're so talented, they could swing any way they wanted to and beat you. And that, because it's not the physical swing. And that's the toughest part is managing that when they come out of college. You'll see them change teachers right out. They'll come out on the tour, and they won't have a good six months, and they're like, I've got to change swing coaches. I'm like, what are you doing?

You're not ever going to – I had the opportunity to represent Butch Harmon for a long time when Tiger came. Butch, to me, is still the greatest teacher in the world. He never would cross the line of instruction to destruction, and he didn't teach a swing. He just taught. But I've learned so much from watching Butch with Tiger, with Greg Norman, with Davis, and with about everybody he talked to.

But how do we get the kids to understand it? It still happens every year. I get a new one. It's just Groundhog Day sometimes. But I'm learning a little bit. But each kid's different. And a lot of them are, and like I say, these kids are smart. It's not like these, you know, they're not bouncing around and not doing it, but they're playing against the best competition in the world all of a sudden.

And they could be playing great and getting killed. You know, I always tell people Davis played 31 years. He won 21 times. Okay. So he, he got beat 740 times in his career. And the mental ability to get your butt kicked that many times and keep coming back is a tough thing. Because when you're a college kid or a high school kid or a junior, it's about wins. And when you get to pro golf, it isn't about wins anymore. It's about shooting the lowest score you're capable of shooting that particular day over and over and over again.

And lo and behold, sometimes you'll win. But that's not what pro golf is. So the hardest thing to do to get an amateur when they turn pro to is quit aiming at pins. Because when you're on tour, they don't put those pins to where you can aim at them. If you start aiming at them, you're going to kill yourself. So it's like you've got to learn. You're good enough to hit the pin, but it's about a game of averages. And that's a lot of stuff.

The stats are big on that as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Matt, there's a particular and specific listener and viewer that we need to talk to right now. OK. And it's someone you talk to all the time. Parents. Wow. I know you I don't want to say you're outspoken about it, but but you do speak a lot about the role that parents play in athletes' career. And whether it's golf, football, baseball, basketball, whatever it is, what advice, because they're listening right now, they're watching right now. I hope so. What advice do you give to parents to ensure that they're not overwhelming their children? Because, Mac, here's what I know personally. I personally know

great middle school and high school athletes that had a lot of potential that just quit because their parents were living through them or their parents were trying to coach and teach them things that they couldn't even do, which is probably one of my biggest pet peeves. But But Mac, I'd love for you to give parents advice that are listening or watching right now. Gosh, you know, and you want to talk about how things work in life. I always talk about Joe Walsh. You know, he talks about life, about the guitarist for the Eagles said, when you're living life, it's these crazy and random things that happen. And you look back and it was like a well-orchestrated novel. When I started playing golf, there was a guy named Mike Barrow that at 16, he was one of the top juniors in the world. And he was my football teammate. And he's the one that

kind of really got me started playing golf. And his dad had money, which helps in this game, which is a usual constant. But his dad would push him to the point that he went on vacation with this one time and made my dad promise that Mike would practice for six hours a day. And my dad said, I promise he will practice six hours a day. And Mike's head hung low. And I remember going to the beach and my dad said, I didn't tell him what you were going to practice for six hours. And Mike ended up, I mean, great player, but didn't make it. I'm not going to blame it on his parents. They were great. They were great to meet. It's hard to stress because it comes from a place of love. You've got so many other parents telling you how great your kid is. And it's impossible not to be happy when your kid wins. It's impossible. But you can't cross

that line of them knowing that the love that you have for them is based on what you shoot. And I can only associate this with God, but I've seen it. But I got an early, at 18 years old, I got an early education in watching it. And the pressure that was on the kid, he's like, my dad's going to kill me if I don't shoot under par today. Kill you? What? And they don't mean to. And they lose sight of the fact that their job really is just to get the kid prepared

to handle whatever comes their way. I've got two kids. You don't know what's going to happen. But they need to be prepared for what could happen. And they're all prepared for success. These kids that come right out and have that great success, that's kind of easy. That's not the way life is. They're going to struggle.

It's about a four or five-year process to get on tour and to be able to be on tour. And early success has ruined more players than helped them. I tried to explain that to them. And again, you're like, don't love your kid. I mean, I've had a client that had a dad leave him at a junior tournament because he played bad. I mean, I've seen some really emotional scars on that player kept him. He won. He didn't fulfill his potential. He couldn't get over the fact. His dad showed up at a won. He didn't fulfill his potential. It was my bill. He couldn't get over the fact. His dad showed up at a tournament. He couldn't play.

It's out there. So I only think I would tell a parent, it's just make sure that it doesn't matter what they shoot. It doesn't matter. Hey, we're happy you won. But you really want to prepare them for failure. Because as I said, Davis failed 740 times. You want to prepare someone to be able to handle failure.

And failure is nothing but learning. That's all failure is. I had a client play bad and he was in close chance to win last week and he had a bad last day and people were all freaking out. I said, look what he learned. This is, quit looking at failure as this thing that happens. That's, I mean, I tell people everything I know in this business that I really know is because I screwed it up, not because I got it right.

And we have a couple of Navy SEALs, former Navy SEALs that work with our players from performance. And they made it very clear to me that on their successful missions, their debriefs were longer than on their failed missions. Because failure will show you what happened. Success will create blind spots. And so, and I know we got to pass to parents here, but there's no, you know, every parent we have with kids, I've never had one not love their kid, but you can maybe over-level. I love that, Mac. I love that. And I want to go to something now that you just said, success creates blind spots. I freaking love that. I

love that so much. I'm going to borrow that if I can. It's not mine. I got it from one of our Navy SEALs. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'd love for you to elaborate a little bit about that. Like, because, again, not just with athletes, not just in sport, but I think in business, that also was a major, major eye-opening statement right there. Success really does create blind spots.

Yeah. Well, golf business life is all the same. Everything that succeeds in life will help you succeed in business and golf and vice versa. It's all the same. It's about keeping your eye on the ball and all these things. But yeah, I've experienced it. I've grown a big business. I sold it. I had blind spots and I learned them and they hit you pretty hard, right? So you do learn these things. It amazes me more that when companies are successful, when people are successful, including a golfer, doesn't look at, okay, well, I'm playing great, but is it luck or am I doing the right things?

You know, because you don't, when a guy's playing good, they get no, the instructor doesn't give lessons and they start playing bad and they start working on it. And I would say that when they're playing well, it's when the instructor should be really observing this client. What is he doing right? What's happening to make these things go right? And in businesses, my business, I had things going for a while there. I mean, I couldn't touch anything. It didn't turn to gold. And it wasn't just me. It was luck. But sometimes you start thinking, man, I'm really good. I'm good at what I do. And it was just luck. And then when things go bad, I started looking back and understanding it. And like I said, my failures to this point in my age have taught me that's why I'm now valuable. I've seen pretty much everything. I'm one of the oldest guys in the business now. And we've got stuff going on in golf right now. And I laugh, but no one, very few people have reached out to me. And I've been part of this ecosystem for 30 some years.

And again, I'm not saying, oh, please help me, but the game is crumbling. And I'm like, I keep raising my hand. They're like, get out of the way. We don't need you. Right. But it's true in life. And I tell everybody, you know, if things are going really, really well, gather your people, your friends, your trusted people in a room and find out what's luck. Because your ego will, I mean, it's going to get you going, man. And so what is luck or what are you doing well and what can you do better? And so, like I say got business life is exactly the same thing everything you need to succeed in one you need to succeed in the other you need to be able to fail and get back up you know our navy seal we're one of our navy seal guys and you know

and obviously we were just you know around those guys you're just shaking because how cool they are and how wonderful they are and i had a client him, how did you make it through buds? And he went, I didn't quit. And I think that's life. I mean, no matter how did you make it in life, I just didn't quit. And we all get the crap kicked out of us and you got to get up and you got to keep moving forward. In this day and age, like I say, in social media, you would think these people have perfect lives. We're all seeing that. Everybody's perfect, happy. The amount of, the instant communication you can have now, that you can send off a text without thinking about what you're saying. And I don't like to text much. I like to, I'd rather talk more because the way I can't spell, so I may spell the wrong word. And, but it's, it's gone away of, go back to communication. Communication's gone away and we don't communicate with each other and look each other in the eye. And golf is a gentleman sport. And there's nothing about a gentleman that's happened in the last two or three years. And I hate to say it, know it's real easy to text, but just pick up the phone and call dad every once in a while.

Right. Like, especially on Father's Day. Like, you text me all the other time, but you better call me on Father's Day. Right. But but no, in the business world, I tell people and even in life, I tell people all the time, like, you've got to be able to communicate effectively in person, picking up the phone and talking, because if Mac's having a bad day, I don't care how great of an email or text message I send Mac, he's going to receive it and how his day is going at that moment. And so it's really important to pick up the phone. And sometimes you just, you bring clarity to people. A lot of times, man, you never know how that, hey, Mac, how are you doing today, brother? You never know how far that goes along as well, too. And I think that's vastly important in society today, because I think we're missing it, bro. I mean, it goes way past all that stuff as well, because, you know, you

don't know what people are dealing with and you're not supposed to be sad. You're not supposed to be in a bad place. You're not, I mean, it's just, you should be cool and positive. You know, we've, we've had a PGA tour professional this year commit suicide, Grayson Murray. And then another guy that was a tour supporter, teacher, Rusty Estes committed suicide. We've had two suicides this year. I was with Rusty three days before that in Miami. People said, did you notice anything? I said, no. We get so caught up now, right now, in money and fame and fortune and jets and reaching out and asking someone how they're doing. I mean, I always tell people, if you've got bad news to deliver, do it Friday afternoon. They're getting ready to go home. They're happy. They've got a lot of things. If you've got good news to deliver, do it Monday morning because it'll brighten their day, right, in business.

Because Monday mornings, nobody likes to be where they are. But, yeah, we've really gotten away from checking on each other and asking how people are doing. And, you know, I don't care how the people worry me the most are the ones that are happiest sometimes because everybody can fake it, right? But communication, being able to confront things is a tough thing in life anymore. People would rather just push the ball into your court through an email or a text instead of looking someone in the eye and saying, look, I messed up. I made a mistake. Let's work this out.

And that's a lost art in a lot of ways right now. You know, in golf business right now, it's caused everything that's happened. Is it no one wants to get in the room. And sad. Totally agree, brother. Totally agree. So what is new and exciting that's going on with Mac? I know you're a serial entrepreneur, right? Like you always have something going on. What are some of the cool things that you have going on right now? Well, I mean, in the golf part, we've got a logistics business.

I mentioned earlier about travel agencies, and we have to move these kids around the world. And that's not an easy process. It's not something you just call Delta and wait in line. And again, this is working on when things go wrong. So we have a logistics business that works corporately and for players around the world, whether it's renting houses or providing chefs or whatever these things is. These kids travel, the circus travels. an our very medicine and you want to call it or whatever that we're working on as far as health and recovery in this day and age of the traveling and all the you know diseases that they exist out there and then it just engulf the way that our company is set up you know i've got i've got former clients that work with me they've been they've worked with me and i'm going to make

them get in my business and see how it's like i had one yesterday just tell me how have you done this so long i'm like i said just don't take it personal. Just keep moving. And we have new kids coming in every day. We have called kindergarten and even the older ones, we are going through their thing. So I'm always looking for opportunities. I consult for a club called Frederica Golf Club in St. Simons Island, kind of help with the hiring and stuff of people, because again, I know most all the players and I do some consulting things that I can't mention that I'm in the DA, but I had a call yesterday with a former colleague that I worked in outside of this industry. And, and he's my age, we're 62. And,

and I said, he, you know, there's people trying to retire and retire from what? I mean, why would you do something you'd have to quit? You know, I have this big belief people tell you about how much retirement money I have. And I said, well, I don't know how long I'm going to live. I don't know how much I need. I'm trying to put enough back, but I really don't care how nice the spoon is or feed me with when I'm 80. That's not going to bother me. Most of my retirement money I've spent snowboarding or doing things that I won't be able to do when I'm 80. I'm sorry.

Right. But I'm lucky. I'm sorry. Right. And I love, but I'm lucky. I love what I do. I get up every morning excited. I've got old kids, young kids that I'm, something's going to happen that I get to try to help. In that sense, you know, I try to pass that message to these guys that live the now, be in the present, be in the moment. And, you know, that started early in my life, but, you know, I don't do anything to make

money. I try to do things and hope I earn money. And that makes it easier for me. That's awesome. That's awesome. So Rose was telling me about a new initiative as well, Whole19. Yep, yep. Love to hear a little bit about that.

Talk to the viewers and listeners about that a little bit. The speakers, yeah, we're trying to create some panels, speaker bureaus to take around the golf tournaments. I mean, right now there's a lot of golf tournaments, you know, they want a player to come in and speak to them. And they're really fun to speak to. And it's fun to see these famous people. They're really not going to give you much of what's going on. They've got one focus, and that's to shoot low golf course scores. And they're great guys and they're funny, but in a crowd, we're trying to create an opportunity to maybe bring different, you know, if it's me or a Navy, former Navy SEAL or, you know, each component of the game in as a panel to bring to corporations to say, hey, you want to hear it all? We'll bring you a caddy, a trainer, an instructor, a performance coach, an idiot like me. And you want to hear everything

because we know it all. Like we know where the bodies are buried and we're trying to create some opportunities in the business world now with, you know, as you said, it's changed so much. People don't want to add agency is right now. People don't. And we're trying to stay ahead of that to say, what do people really want to know now? And, and the, you know, the old pro-am on Wednesday has just been going on for so long, right? And it's really fun. But we're trying to create some opportunities beyond where people can actually sit and talk to a panel and using golfers too. Lucas Glover and I, Lucas, I kind of helped Lucas with a radio show. And the kind of reason we do that is Lucas, I mean, obviously

Lucas is one of the smartest guys on tour, but I kind of can remind him of things that he probably isn't even paying attention that he does or doesn't do and can get him started on his thought processes. So we're just trying to create a new way to create more information that hasn't been provided before. Awesome. Well, if I can do anything to support that, I want to. Well, thank you. And little side story. You can let Lucas know this. He is one of my favorite golfers now. So I went to the Masters last year with my best friend, Darren Vermoes, and got to see Lucas Glover in person for the first time.

Not only did I think he was like a starting tight end or strong safety in the NFL because the dude is ripped, but he was just a really cool human being, right? Took time to, you know, after his round to embrace fans, walking from hole to hole would give fist bumps to kids and have a very quick but casual conversation. And everybody doesn't do that on tour.

And so he provides an experience that I think everybody listening and watching Lucas Glover should be one of your top three golfers in the world because I am a huge fan now just from the experience that I saw interacting with Lucas so if you'll let him know that for me absolutely yeah we're doing a show tomorrow well yeah Lucas is yeah well you know he's an athlete whatever he put 100% behind he would have been able to do. He's a monster. But, yeah, he's a good guy. And I hate to say it, but that's upbringing. You know, I always tell parents, I say kids will not do what you tell them to do,

but they will do what they see you do. And so I just, it's just, how a kid reacts is just a reflection of their parents. And good or bad, not judging anybody, but if you see a kid that doesn't embrace what he's doing, a lot of these kids don't realize they're in show business. This is entertainment package. You can make your living. Ricky Fowler, for what he's won, and again, winning is tough out here. So I'm not getting it. He's won a bunch, but I mean, you would think he's won 30 times as famous as he is. But I've seen this guy and I don't represent him.

I don't even know him that well, but I see him when no one's watching and the way he acts. I watched him think when he was a rookie, a couple wanted a picture with him and he ran through the ropes to get a picture with them. And he thanked them. And I looked and went, I went to his manager and said, man, that kid's a rock star. And they don't realize that one good news travels fast, Mick. Bad news travels real fast. Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah, I wish they all got it.

But again, some don't have the personality. Some of them are shy. I mean, Davis is a shy guy. He's not outgoing. He can do it. But people say when he played, he was stoic and, he was like stoic and all mean and mad. And he goes, he goes, I'm so nervous. I can't.

I can't laugh out there. And people would go, you're nervous. And he goes, yeah, he's nervous. Some of them, nervous comes out in different ways. Right. But it has got a little more robotic as time has gone on. You don't see as many personalities. I saw Charlie Hall on the Sohan Cup, which if you didn't

watch that, how wonderful it is to watch women's golf growing the way it is. It's wonderful. But she's smoking a cigarette, smoking a nail. And it's not healthy. Don't do it. But God, it was fun to see somebody that was real. It excited me. So I try to stress, but most of the guys we sign that i'm worth working with they realize they're in show business i mean and that little kid you sign a ball for and a lot of these kids now that i'm dealing with had balls signed by my former clients that my former clients were their heroes which is kind of funny now that i'm that old but yeah so it's i think when goff gets through this mess we're in right now, I'm hoping everybody will reassess

and go back to say, look, this is a gentleman's game. And they call their penalties on themselves. But I don't think the organizations have called their penalties on themselves yet today. You got that right. They may not like it,

but that's, it's just, it's been a really messy last three years for no reason. Totally agree. Totally agree. Can't watch your favorite golfers anymore. People don't know the real reason behind most of any of this. And it's, I'll say it, this isn't Mac, this is Mick. It's ruining the, not just the game, but the adoration of fans. It's ruining it for us. It really is. I mean, these guys should make a lot of money.

They're good at what they do, and they work hard. I mean, families are having trouble buying food for their kids. We've got a homeless epidemic. And I'm not saying you can't. You know, one of the problems in golf has always been when Jarrett Jeter hit a home run, as he was rounding base, they did not mention how much money he makes a year. That said, one time a year, he signs a $500 million contract or whatever, and you never hear about it again. It's just about performance. Well, every time a golfer plays, look how much money he won. Look how much money he won. Look how much money he won. I mean, when you're struggling to

make payments, it will ruin the experience. I mean mean go ahead and say they made hey last year scotty shuffler made 62 million say it one time right but that's not who scotty shuffler is if you ever meet that kid he's he's not 62 million dollar guy he's just a golfer that loves to play golf and kick butt and does it well and i think that has ruined it and as i said sometimes i'll say it the pga tour's success over the last 30 years created blind spots so enormous that I don't think they really see them yet. And I'm a big fan of the PGA Tour. Jay Monahan's a good friend of mine. You don't like to see this, but something went wrong, really wrong in communication.

We'll go back to that in the beginning of all this. But it'll work itself out. It's bound to. But I just hope it doesn't ruin... I mean, there are relationships on tour, player versus player, that have been ruined, even on my little island. And it's a sad thing to see. And these are independent contractors. They can do whatever they want. You imagine a guy move... You see this in the NFL. I saw it last night in the game. They play the game. They're fighting.

They're hurting each other. After the game, some of these guys played together at some point. They're all reaching over, going to hug them. They're not mad at them for taking a bigger contract and going playing for the Eagles. Right. But these guys somehow are now mad that these guys are going over to take more money. They have the right to do that. And then, you know, I think it's racist to say that where the money came from.

I mean, they're just, I mean, this has gotten, it's just gotten completely out of hand. But, you know, I know both sides. I know both parties live, the people there are not bad people. They're great events. I have a kid, Andy Ogletree, that plays there. They're fun. They're really fun. They're 14 events a year.

That's a little more than one a month. I didn't understand the fuss of it all. It made no sense to me why you would, you know, I mean, try to go after people that decided to do something different. It just made no sense to me. And it'll work itself out. But right now it's a mess. There you go. There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, my friend. I want to tell you this. Money will not solve this though. You keep hearing about the money. It won't solve this issue. No. It won't. No. That you can mark my words. Totally agree, Mac. Totally agree. I know you're a very busy, busy, busy human being. I appreciate the fact

that you took some time with us today. Oh, it's an honor. Thank you. It means the world to me, Mac. Ladies and gentlemen, this is my friend. Lots of wisdom dropped today. Great human being. I'll have in the show notes in the descriptions, all the places that you can find and follow Mac, but just do me a favor, support him. He's a great guy and he does a lot of great for the world. Mac, brother, I appreciate you. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much for having me on, Mick. I enjoyed it. You got it.

For all the listeners, remember, your because is your superpower. Go unleash it. Thank you for tuning in to Mick Unplugged. Keep pushing your limits, embracing your purpose, and chasing greatness. Until next time, stay unstoppable.