Mick Unplugged - Never Split the Difference: Life Lessons with Chris Voss

Episode Date: November 1, 2025

Chris Voss is a renowned former FBI hostage negotiator, celebrated as one of the most effective negotiators in modern history. With decades of experience working high-stakes cases—including terrorist and organized crime task forces—Chris brings unmatched expertise in conflict resolution, empathy, and leadership. He is the author of the bestselling book Never Split The Difference, which has become required reading for leaders and professionals worldwide. Today, Chris continues to impact lives as a teacher, speaker, and entrepreneur, building communities around trust, collaboration, and a passion for making a difference. Takeaways: Ordinary People, Extraordinary Results: Chris believes that anyone, no matter their background or skillset, can achieve remarkable things if they’re willing to work hard and surround themselves with good people. Empathy as a Superpower: True leadership and negotiation are rooted in emotional intelligence and empathy—understanding and appreciating others builds trust and drives collaboration. Kindness Multiplies Success: For assertive leaders, being both respectful and kind enhances influence and long-term relationships, creating greater positive impact than sheer assertiveness alone. Sound Bites: "I do think of myself as just like this regular guy... but everybody's capable of being extraordinary if they're just willing." "The more deposits I make in a karma bank, the more fun my life is." "Negotiation for leaders isn’t just about salary—it’s about appreciating effort, time, and building trust for the future." Connect & Discover Chris: Instagram: @thefbinegotiator Facebook: @ChrisVossNegotiation LinkedIn: @christophervoss Book: Never Split the Difference 🔥 Ready to Unleash Your Inner Game-Changer? 🔥   Mick Hunt’s BEST SELLING book, How to Be a Good Leader When You’ve Never Had One: The Blueprint for Modern Leadership, is here to light a fire under your ambition and arm you with the real-talk strategies that only Mick delivers.   👉 Grab your copy now and level up your life → Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Books A Million    FOLLOW MICK ON: Spotify: MickUnplugged Instagram: @mickunplugged  Facebook: @mickunpluggedYouTube:  @MickUnpluggedPodcast  LinkedIn: @mickhunt  Website:  MickHuntOfficial.com Apple: MickUnplugged Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Conditions and exclusions apply. This is Mick Unplugged. Let us uncover the because that thing that drives you, that thing that fuels you. I'm ready if you are. Let's go. But I'd be humble today, man. Like, I told you when I finally got to meet you face to face, there's three people that really changed my life from a business standpoint.

You, Damon John, Robert Irvine, like you're my three keeks. And life would not be the same without E3, man. So I just wanted you to know that. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I always ask folks about your because. You know, Simon Seneca did the start with wives. Right. Great concept. But I believe that there's a different fuel that gets people to a Chris Gloss level. And it's your because. Your why to me is somewhat superficial, but you're because that's that thing that's deeper than your why, your true purpose, your true passion, that thing that keeps you doing what you do. So if I say, Chris Voss, what's your because? Why do you keep doing the things that you?

Well, yeah, we're ultimately sad and we're selfish. I mean, makes me feel really good to actually help people. You were talking a little bit on the way over here. I think everybody's capable of really incredible stuff. Hmm? Like, no, everybody. Every person on our, in fact, I do think of myself as just like this regular guy. You know, like, I was a B plus student in high school, B minus student in college. You know, it's not like I'm a, on the honor roll, you know, not a super high IQ, average-looking dude, not a great athlete.

But everybody's capable of being extraordinary. If they just say, okay, I could do this. And it frustrates me the more people don't see that. And I think that because I'm a regular dude. Like, if I could do well, you could do well. Yeah. You know, they ain't that much to it. Yeah.

And I like helping people have better lives. It's just enormously gratifying to me. Yeah. You say you're a B plus student, right? B minus in college. Is that what you said? Yeah. But you're an A plus fucking human being, right? And I really mean that because, again, the lives that you impact. And we'll talk about your history and all the things that you've done. But I get to see it in this view, right? I see the lives that you impact. We were talking about your extraordinary staff and team that you have. And then the service. of friends that you have. Sometimes, Chris, I don't think you realize how just impactful you are as a human. I really don't.

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. I try to be around good people. I try to be around really good, hardworking, regular people that are fun to be around. And everywhere I've gone, if we've managed to coalesce a group of fun,

hardworking, regular people, Like, extraordinary things happen. When I was in New York, walking on the terrorist task force, you know, the hardworking regular guys. We found each other in terrorism. And New York's a big enough place. Like, it was the same thing in the organized crime guys,

white-colored crime guys, you know, whatever. The regular hard-working guys got together. They made extraordinary cases. You know, we made, in terrorism, we made cases they wrote books about it, and they made movies about it. The organized crime guys did the same thing. If you get those regular people together, just have a ball,

just laugh at stupid stuff. Don't take themselves too seriously. They work like crazy. And then you get a chance to do extraordinary stuff. That's fun. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about this journey you've had, though.

Not everyone can say they were the number one rated FBI hostage negotiator. Of all times, we can. There's situations that you've seen. that not even the elite have seen, but you always focus on the mission ahead. And I remember talking to you and you were like, the mission is the mission

until the mission changes. Right? Yeah. Talk to us about how you got into hostage negotiation. Yeah, it was just one thing out of left field after another.

Like I never even imagined being a hostage negotiator. It wasn't a goal. Being an FBI agent wasn't even a goal. Kind of finding myself there. by the circumstances lined up. When I applied for federal law enforcement, I originally applied for Secret Service

because that's what I heard about, and I was told Secret Service travel all over the world. I'm like, wow, that's cool. Well, I grew up in Iowa. It was a big deal going to another state. I crossed the river into Illinois. That was a big deal. I was a big team.

So traveled, and Secret Service wasn't hiring. I was put on my application. I was slayed to go to SWAT team. on a police department just before left if the bureau would have delayed if the bureau would have delayed by three weeks hiring me i'd have stayed with the bd because i was two weeks away from going to swat there got on a swat team in uh pittsburg and i remember an exercise we did you know we it was this supposed bad guy takeover of nuclear facility we got negotiators inside and i can remember of being on the outside on a SWAT, knowing that we had somebody in there that we supposedly negotiate

and just like, oh, okay, somebody's talking to him on the phone, that's a negotiator. You know what, tells that guy, though, his job is to buy us time as we get ready to assault. So absolutely oblivious to what it was about. And then had multiple knee injuries and decided, well, I'll go be a negotiator and said it continued to tie my knee apart, swan. I didn't figure it be hard at all. And I didn't, you know, I didn't imagine how rewarding it would be. And I was lucky enough, I couldn't get on, so I volunteered on suicide hotline.

Then on the hotline, I was astonished at the magic of emotional intelligence, the magic of empathy, just astonishing. And so that paid the way for me to become a negotiator. and then I was lucky enough I was involved in a really rare event that turned out really well bank robbery with hostages

which almost never happens you know the movies make it seem like it happens every day in New York or in L.A. Bank robberies happen every day they just don't have hostages bad guys and other police run away and they get out of there

so catching somebody on the inside like it hadn't happened in New York City for 20 years oh wow when on the one that I was all. That's how rare they are. Okay. So, and it turned out really well as combined effort, FBI, NYPD, blended negotiation team.

First bad guy to surrender to me personally outside the back. And so then I, FBI hostage negotiated as part of our protocol of staying good is teaching. If you're not doing something, even if you're doing it on a regular base, You want to really immerse yourself, try to teach it. Yeah. Because you're going to get called out. I mean, you really got to stay the hell out of it. You got, and you're going to get called out.

So I started teaching the Chase Bank all over the place, and it was a lot of fun. And because I like teaching and I like doing it, that just I can continue to pursue it. I was in a right place, right time. A lot of times I worked my ass home. And working your ass off really determines whether or not you're in the right place, right time. There you go.

I totally agree with that. You know, when we were in Chicago, my cousin Rami asked you a question of, if you had to do it all over again, what would you tell the younger version of Chris Voss? And you said, I tell him to be nicer, Ray. Tell us about what that means. all right so there's how you approach conflict there's basically three times we believe i believe my team believes that this is true and we have the anecdotally we've got enough to add it to sort of back it up even though we have a rigorously test at go so you approach the conflict approach is fight flight

make friends assertive analyst a commenter cade man responds to threat and fighting make friends with it, run from. And the world really does pretty much split evenly into thirds. Doesn't matter, gender, ethnicity, religion, nothing. It's kind of a caveman environment. So as an assertive,

natural born assertive, I'll tend to be too blunt, too direct. And so I wouldn't change, sticking to my values of what I stood up for, what I believed in, I'd just be nicer about the way that I expressed.

I'd be kinder, if you will, nicer, friendlier, you know, whatever word works. I always believed in, you need to know where I'm coming from, and sort of primary currency is respect. If you respect me, we could probably make a D. Even if you don't give me the deal that I originally wanted, if you treat me with respect, I'm going to be enormously collaborative.

And one of the poster children for assertives these days that everybody knows, of course, is Trump. Jeff Bezos also is, in my view, is an assertive. Look at how collaborative Donald Trump is when the world leaders show up the White House to treat him with respect. You know, he's basically dismissive of almost every European leader in his first Trump,

unhappy with NATO for legitimate reasons. You know, we're paying their bills and their bad mouthless. And so he goes and meets them in meetings, and he goes to Europe, and, you know, they're not happy with the way that they treat them. But watch what happens when somebody shows up to meet him in person. It treats him with respect. Now streaming on Paramount Plus is the epic return of mayor of Kingstown.

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Let me tell you this. It's going to be consequences. Mayor of Kingstown, new season now streaming on Paramount Plus. How enormously collaborative he is. Yeah. And it's taken a long time to come to a accept that, but look what just happened in the White House. Yep.

You know, he goes and he meets Putin and Russia. The media puts all this span, you know, Donald Trump's in the direction of Putin, he's going to give Ukraine away. Yeah, Russia's influence. But Putin's respected him enough to meet him in person. And so the other European leaders, some of them, you know, they, who is it the guy from Finland? And Finland has a prime minister, I think. Yeah. who's got to be a wacky guy

because one of the quotes I read where he said, I am I'm finished by birth, southern, by the grace of God. Because he went to college and ran this stuff. Right, right. And he plays golf with Trump. But he plays golf with Trump, and Trump feels respected by him,

so the guy's got influence. So the rest of the European lives are like, oh, if we show up the White House and we wear suits and we treat them with respect, he'll listen to us well he certainly wanted to be treated with respect

when I left the bureau and the girl that I was dating at the time put together a gone away party for him a surprise party because I was at odds with the guy that I was working for at the time and I kind of stormed out the door without saying goodbye

not you I'm out of him gone adios I didn't even say adios I just packed my shit and I left And so she was like, you know, I got to, you need a, you need to go on a way party. And when she put it together afterwards, she said, you know, everybody, I try to contact everybody that you ever work with. And what I notice is every single person I spoke to told me how much they respected you. But what I also noticed is, I don't remember any of them saying they liked you.

Hmm. and that had never been pointed out to me because respect was always my currency. You might not like me, but you're going to respect me. And so then I wouldn't change how I did anything for me as an assertive, but I'd go back and I'd be nicer about it. I'd be kinder.

I've heard other assertives that have learned that lesson. Most of them will, they'll use some term. There, be kinder, be nicer. A friend of mine in New York, Conrad Gomez, great dude. He says, kind is the default game theory long-term success option. Long-term success strategy is kindness. So that's for me as an assertive. Now, the other two types, gandless, super smart dudes,

they tend to come off as cold and distant. Yeah. So they're, since they're not assertive, they just need to open up in a friendlier way. Accommodators, relationship, hope-based people. They need to be more sort of. Okay. My girlfriend is an accommodator.

When I'm coaching her, I'm coaching her to be more assertive. So each type has a lesson that will enhance, add to enhance. Don't change, enhance. To make you better. is not changing who you are. Right. My girlfriend's core values are solid. I don't want her to change your core values.

I want her to be clearer with them, with the people that she deals with. Okay. The analysts, I don't want the analysts to change their core values. You think so hard about stuff. You're not cold, but you come off as cold, which interferes with people warming up. So that's a really long answer

For my improvement Is to be nicer, kinder, Feller, on change, just be nicer about high tip No, I love that. I love that. So you talked about your girlfriend. I'm going to talk about my wife. Sorry, babe.

My girlfriend is vision impaired, by the way. Really? No, I expect that shit. She's so it better looking than I. It almost made sense, huh? You're bit for a second. Oh, okay, that explains. So, there's a book that sits on our coffee table at home.

One book. The book is titled Never Split the Difference. I was getting out of here. You already know what I happen. I don't know it's going to be a book by Damon John or something like that. I don't know. It's on one of the side tapes. It's on one of the side tapes.

But my wife reads this book so much. much because she says, I need to tap into your brain because I know there are moments and your name was a verb in our household where you're bossing me. I'm like, I'm bossing you. And then she'll slap me. You just did it again. It's about her girl. But never split the difference. It's deep on so many levels, right? I get it for leaders. It's my number one book. My team has to read it. You have to read that book within your first 90 days. I told you this week. Your first 90 days of employment, you've got to read the book. Because if you don't read the book, if you don't understand the book, you're not going to fit it to our culture. We have a Chris Voss culture at all my companies. It's great for relationships. Yeah. It helps you start to understand people, the decisions they made, the choices that they decide upon,

and I'm saying all this to say when you were writing the book, did you know it was going to be that down tight net? No, no. But you know it's that gift. It's been a gift. It's very gratifying.

It's been a gift. I've been very happy with it. I'll tell you the thing that I'm happiest most about it. To me, it's a proof of concept of human nature because the book's about collaboration with people, trust, long-term relationships or trust where you collaborate, both people do well and are happy. And it sells well globally, which to me says everybody in the world, the vast

majority, not everybody in the world, but the vast majority of the world wants to collaborate. You know, we're not against each other. We're not at odds. The criticism of the legacy media is legit in that it's there to keep us divided. And many of the social algorithms are there to feed what makes us angry and continue to feed our anger if we're, if we, if we bite. And then even if we don't bite, it tries to get us to bite anyway. You know, I read a lot of, I read a lot of reporting on President Trump, mostly because I'm trying to read between the lines to see what he actually said. as opposed to what they're saying, he said.

And so because I read a lot of these, I get a fair amount of stuff fit to me. Can you believe President Trump said this? President Trump doubles down, you know, the inflammatory stuff. Because they're the guessing that I want to be angry. I'm just trying to see what the hellie actually said. And so the majority of us don't want that. You know, the majority of us, more of us want to collaborate than not.

It's a legacy media and social media is designed to keep sangrian at each other's swaps. So true. So true. So powerful. And we agree on so much, right? Like, I'm all about emotional intelligence when I speak to leaders. That's what I'm there with. You've got your empathetic leadership among. many things. Why do you think leaders today are missing the boat on you? Because they don't see it around them. First of all, it's not in the media. It's not getting fed to them. In entertainment. It's not in entertainment.

You know, how are we picking up what social behaviors affect? every movie and TV show when somebody's down and upset somebody looks at them and says I know how you feel you I was the words at the same place you ran and the other person goes

oh my God thank you and I feel so much better and in real life when you say as soon as the words I know how you feel start to come out of your mouth the other person starts to withdraw there are some people to teach

communication called story stealing And they're like, hey, you look, no, you don't know how I feel. And the circumstance you get ready to tell me about, it's got nothing to do with my circumstance. And you get ready to give me advice, and I don't want to hear. And so we see that in the media, but in movies and TVs, it works. So then actually when it does work, it's in Visom. Like, nobody knows what happened.

And it's, I know how you feel. feel stuff is this common ground nonsense. And so my latest example of white common ground is just at a wedding, Wendy and I had a wedding in Ireland recently and talking to the pride at the end of the day of the wedding laid on. And they have been, what they've been through, you know, they go all the way to Ireland to get married, like a couple of days before they get married, the church tells them they can't get married in the church.

Because she's Catholic. The annulment didn't come through at time. Catholic Church is not going to let her walk in the door, get married. And so just a couple things before, they've got to switch churches. Wow. As if everything else didn't happen. And all the things like, a wedding to a man is like, look, I've got to show up against them in front of this, some religious guy. We're going to say a couple of words.

Then we're going to go get drunk. Right. And they're going to make me wear a tuxedo, which is uncomfortable. I don't want to do any of that. Waiting to a woman, it's women consistently say, I've been dreaming, I've been, Imagine this day for 15 years. Like, there's a man on earth that ever says that. Yeah, well, imagine this day for 15 years.

We'll tell you, we met 15 years ago. I was just trying to get a second date. And you're imagining getting married to me? Like, it's so vastly different. Right, right. So I'm talking to the bride, end of the day. What are the bride and groom got to do at the end of the day? They got to go, they got to walk around and say hello to everybody.

They're exhausted. Like, they're unconscious on their feet. And they have an obligation. And this is my first conversation with it. So she walks up to me the next night after she's got a good night's sleep or in a hotel restaurant. She says, I don't know what you said to me last night. I just remember how good it made me feel. And she gives me this big hug.

Now, what I said to her the night before was all empathy. I said, you know, you've been through hell. You're here to celebrate a union of two families and a man that you married. is there to have a part that she's got no idea. I said, you know, and I laid out to her every single thing that she went to through, which is empathy. Now, I couldn't say, I know what it's like to be a bride. Or I can't say, I know how you feel because I once got married.

Or like, there ain't no way I know how she feels. You know, I've never been a bride. I've never been a bride's made. Never been a mother. I never had her experience. But I laid it all out to her. And that's the magic of empathy because she didn't even know what I did.

She didn't remember a single word that I said. 24 hours later, not knowing a word that I said, she walks up to me, she feels bonded to me. She walks up to me, she gives me this great big hug. And she says, I don't know. Whatever you said last night, it just made me feel so good. So your original question, why don't more leaders see that? nobody sitting around us had any idea of the emotional reaction she was given me

there was another young lady that was a friend of the bride sitting on this side of me my girlfriend's on this side there's a couple of other people sitting there absolutely nobody watching has the slightest idea that I'm hitting her with this wave of empathy, how she's connected to it, they just see like, well, you know, he seemed appreciative. Quick conversation. And so that's why leaders often don't see it because when somebody does it in front of you, you have no idea what just happened. That's empathy, but that's also an example of the impact that I was talking about earlier

that you have on people. and you're literally being yourself, right? Like, you're not trying to over-emopathize, right? You saw the moment, you saw the need, and you did what you were called to do in that moment without hesitation. That's best pa, shpa. That is spreeking, blah.

I, you know, well, it's gratifying. I'm a big believer. and karma. And I think the more of it's selfish, the more deposits I make in a karma bank, the more fun my life is. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. While I have you here, I can only ask you this question, and I'm kind of asking selfishly for me. But a lot of leaders truly don't understand negotiation. If I talk to a leader about negotiation, Fortune 100 leader, their immediate thought goes to salary negotiation.

Right. Every time. And I'm like, that's probably 10 on the list. What about time? What about effort? But people don't understand that those are things that you're also to negotiate. So for the leaders that are out there, I love for you to take a moment and talk about why negotiation is important for a leader and what you miss when you don't do a

about um because when you start talking about time and effort where you're really negotiating with somebody is their future where is that time and effort going to take them and how painful is it going to be like all the emotional things but you're really asking somebody to trust you with their future and this trust is this you know this bond this sort of imaginary bond to get somebody to trust you with their future, they have to feel that you understand what's important. Not that you agree to it.

Or that you're aware of what they're afraid of. Or that you even appreciate. And so one of the things that I've been, just over the last three years, I've been trying to my appreciation dividend is growing very high

because I'm trying to remember on a regular basis to appreciate people as much as possible. Yeah. And I would have, simply from the way that I was raised, I was just expected to do a good job. And, you know, my father didn't show me a lot of appreciation.

It was tremendous amount of love in my faith under, who was unquestioned. that I was loved unconditionally by my parents. But the modeling that was done for me, there wasn't a lot of appreciation. And so I just took it for being like, look, do your job. Do what you're asked to do, do your job,

have integrity, do all that stuff, and just do it. Yeah. And so I've been guilty of expecting people to just do a good job most of my life. And now as I'm showing more appreciation for the little things, I'm getting people working hard and working longer hours and having more fun. Because even if the future is uncertain, if I'm appreciating them in a moment, they're there for us. And so all these little intangibles that were not modeled for me well, the vast majority

of my life. I always had a lot of support. I was always lucky enough to have a tremendous amount of support from people, from people and the Bureau, a vast majority of the people I worked for gave me massive amounts of support. Not a lot of appreciation. And so the success was supposed to be its own reward, doing a good job. And in many cases, it was. But that was for me.

Personally, I'm very hard working. I believe I'm working really, really, really hard. I don't think, I think expectations. The leaders should think about, what do I expect? What kind of behavior do I expect? And maybe am I coming off as cold or uncaring unintentionally? Because I'm not. And so I think that's what leaders miss out on,

a fair amount. of them totally agree i totally agree i'm going to get you out of here on this chris again all the things we have in common right leadership we both love our significant others right we both love the new england patriots under both can i have phone a friend i had to figure out how to weave that one anyway then we get eli on the phone who's that what is that what Eli? I don't want to hear. Eli's comment. What was it? You know, a couple of Super Bowls. English. Professor Sick. No. But we both love bourbon. Yeah, amen. Our good friend Nick Nettin told the story. Every time you guys got together, he's got a fru-frew bottle of glass of wine. You've got a bourbon. And so he said, hey, we should start a bourbon together, right? How the hell does that happen, bro? Yeah, you know, that's kind of,

Nick is a classic guy who has a pretty good game plan to figure stuff out. Yeah. He really understands implementation. He understands teamwork. He's a great marketing and sales guy. He's fun to be around.

And he's always fun to be around. And that's really kind of how it happens. When he threw out that, that idea. If I didn't know them already, and we're, in the event, Chicago, we're there for strategic coach, and Nick and I both get coached that strategic coach Dan Sullivan. And one of Dan's rules is, if somebody comes up to him, says, I got a great idea, Dan turns on his heels and walks away. Because usually people are a great idea, have no idea how to implement. I think the great idea is enough. And, you know, Damon and the Shark Tank crew have openly said

on Shark Tank, a great idea might be worth $20. Yeah. Because there's no implementation. You would have already done it. You don't have to tell someone you've got a great idea you, Sheldon. You just did. You just did. Right. So Nick is the opposite.

He's already got a game implementation game playing when he tells you about what he wants to do. And so, and it didn't even occur to me, the necessary element that we would have to add to our team if we want to do a bourbon would be Roy Milner, who's a Louisville bourbon insider, a Sherpa, if you will. Yeah. We do a Sherpa.

And as it turned out, I'm explaining Sherpas to Roy. And Roy goes, yeah, that's the name. She says, that's crazy. That's the name my company. So Nick's a marketing guy. Nick's the design guy. Nick's a team guy. You know, they're bringing me in because she wants to design the branding around.

Never split the difference. Yeah. And I would have thought that would have been enough, but Nick is smart enough to bring in Roy. who's the Louisville insider. He's got credibility with these people. They know him. They trust it. He knows his way around the industry.

He's got great taste. And he finds these spectacular hidden gems of bourbon that was available and abandoned by a large corporation because there wasn't enough of it for a global retail run. But there was a... a small amount that was perfect for us and as turned out it was it's this extraordinary blend that's won all these awards so the Sanadipity with the right people coming together and working our tails off and we launched this thing and then we get to meet people like you right and we get to find out

that all these values that we share of regular hardworking people that love having a good time and making really cool stuff happen. And that's kind of how the bourbon comes to be. I'm telling you, one, and I'm putting this on film, it's on audio, it's everywhere.

I've said it before. The best bourbon I've ever had hands down. By far, the best bourbon I've ever had hands down. But the share of it. holder society, that tight-knit group of people, it's a family. I mean, in our messaging and email chains, everyone's helping each other out. Hey, I've got a question about this, or does anyone know someone over here? And within five minutes, you'll see 20 people coming to the rescue or Percy.

And then when we're together, it's as if we're long-lost family and we're just catching up with each other. To me, that's the attraction, the society. The bourbon's great. But that tight-knit community, that tight-knit family, second to not. Yeah, it's from people group. Beerman, absolutely. Yeah. I'm glad I did.

You and Nick, you happen to be sitting next week until an airplane or something like that, right? And we were flying from Vegas, supposed to be going to Dallas. You know, Nick, immediately he's asleep on the plate, right? So he's sitting next to me. I'm like, who's this rude guy that's just eye mask going and everything? We get routed to Austin because there's tornadoes in Dallas. So we land. Nick wakes up, starts getting ready to get up.

I'm like, hey, dude, you probably just want to hang out for a minute. We're in Austin. He's like, what? I'm like, yeah, we got routed. There's storms in Dallas. We don't know if we're going to get to leave. And a long story short, we shared the difference for four hours on the tarmac in Austin, Texas. And I was hooked ever since then, and that's how I got to know about the society.

And I told him at that moment, like, I'm in. Like, he explained the bond, no-continent, right? He explained everything that the family was about, the mission that you all had. And at that moment, I said, it's a no-brainer. This is who I am as a person. All the values that I have are right there. And this is like, yeah, that's just a thing. cool. I just look at a little cake. I have stuff.

Brother, I love you. genuinely. Thank you for all the things that you have done in my life. The conversations, the push. Just thank you for being who you are. Thank you. That's mutual. I appreciate that. Yes, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, the Vosomere. Thank you, sir. Oh, you do it? Yeah. Yeah.

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