Mick Unplugged - Ruth Milligan: Finding Your Voice: Secrets of a Master Storyteller

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Ruth Mulligan demolishes the myth of the "natural speaker" in this conversation that will transform how you think about communication. A TEDx veteran and master storyteller, Ruth reveals why everyone develops speaking habits—and how to ensure yours serve rather than sabotage you. At the heart of Ruth's approach is a profound belief that "everyone has a voice and everyone has a story." The challenge? Most people need guidance to make their voice heard effectively. Drawing from her new book "The Motivated Speaker," Ruth introduces the concept of "shaded habits"—those small, annoying speech patterns we all have that become major liabilities when illuminated on bigger stages. Whether it's filler words, failing to read the room, or speaking too quickly, these habits can derail your message when it matters most. Ruth's practical frameworks revolutionize how we structure presentations. She recommends thinking of your content like a family tree—with a main message (the grandparent) that branches into three key points (children), each supporting up to three additional points (grandchildren). This hierarchy brings clarity while preventing information overload. Perhaps most counterintuitively, she insists we start with points before stories, ensuring our narratives serve our message rather than wander aimlessly. The six principles from her book offer a comprehensive view of speaking: it's habitual, embodied, comes in many genres, is social, fleeting, and messy. Each provides actionable insights, particularly the emphasis on listening to recordings of yourself—uncomfortable yet transformational. As Ruth notes, "one minute of listening to yourself puts you in the audience," creating the perspective shift needed for improvement. Whether you're delivering boardroom presentations, pitching clients, or simply communicating more effectively with colleagues, Ruth's approach offers a blueprint for becoming the speaker you've always wanted to be. As she reminds us, everyone can improve with practice and the right guidance. Ready to transform your speaking? This conversation is your first step. Connect & Discover Ruth: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruthmilligan/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ruthmilligan/?hl=en Website: https://www.articulationinc.com/ Book: The Motivated Speaker FOLLOW MICK ON: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mickunplugged/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mickunplugged/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MickUnpluggedPodcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mickhunt/ Website: https://www.mickhuntofficial.com Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mick-unplugged/

There's no natural speaker. No one's born a speaker. Everyone is habitual. And if you are not a good speaker, you can become one. If you have a bad habit, you can work out of it. Welcome to Mick Unplugged, the number one podcast for self-improvement, leadership and relentless growth.

No fluff, no filters, just heart-hitting truths, unstoppable strategies, and the mindset shifts that separate the best from the rest. Ready to break limits? Let's go. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged, and, I have a brilliant storyteller to introduce you to. She's a TEDx veteran, a master storyteller, and a coach shaping the voice of leaders around the world from ideas to impact, from stages to boardrooms. She's a visionary, she's empowering, she's magnetic.

She's a good friend of mine, Ms. Ruth Mulligan. Ruth, how are you doing today, dear? Hi, Mick. I'm so good and really honored and delighted to be here. I can't wait to have our conversation. Well, I'm the honored one. You are the master storyteller. And I think every story as a fellow keynote speaker starts with what I call a because.

That thing that's deeper than your why, that thing that is really your true passion, your true purpose. And so I'd love to hear for the first time, Ruth Milligan, what's your because? What keeps you doing what you do? Because I really, truly believe that everyone has a voice I really truly believe that everyone has a voice and everyone has a story. That might sound trite, but it is true. Very true.

And everyone needs to practice for it to be heard. Totally agree. And that doesn't go well alone. And we love to be the guide and the helper, the body double, the coach, the whatever you want to call us to support those who are trying to find their place in the world, in their lives, in their business. And it's a delight. We dedicated the book that just came out to the speakers

that we work with, because that takes a lot of trust for them to let us into their worlds. And that all is my because. I love that, Ruth. And I love how you broke that down. As a speaker, as a coach, you see a lot. And you help transform a lot. And the reason I call you a master is because

I know it's tough. One of my mentors, he calls me his son, I call him my father, is Les Brown. So like you, Les started his career in Ohio as well. Great storyteller. And Les, the first lesson I ever got from Les is this, and I know you embody this. He said, the key to speaking is this,

never tell a story without a point and never make a point without a story. Love that. And if you can master that, you'll speak forever and you'll be hired forever because so many people when they go on stage, it's words. Yeah. So Ruth, for you, how do you help speakers transform what I'm going to call stories and points, points and stories?

Because that is something that you do brilliantly. And you're one of the few people that I can actually listen to. You're very kind and generous, by the way. You really are. I've seen a ton of your videos. I've seen a ton of your teachings. And that's how I way, you really know. I've seen a ton of your videos. I've seen a ton of your teachings. And that's how I know that you do that. You do good research.

So I always start with the points. The points are far outweigh the stories. And they're very difficult to organize, bring hierarchy, find the highest level meaning. And if I can get somebody, I did this yesterday on a call, there's a high, you know, I'm working generally in high stakes presentations, things with lots of consequence that could,

and the consequence is how you define it, but it can go from a job interview, your first, an interview for a scholarship in college to a $5 billion contract. It's your definition of high stakes. And somebody had written out a script and I said, what are the three points, what's the one thing that you want to get across that's most important?

You know, and the sort of puzzled look comes, and I said, how can we support that? And it becomes the shifting and organizing and debating. And I give people this visual, which hopefully will help your listeners. I say, think of it like a family tree. And there's a grandparent. And that grandparent had three kids.

And those three kids might have had three kids on their own. And those are the most number of points you're going to get. And that's the hardest part. Once we get through that mess, the rest of it starts to fill in the stories then support those points. If I started with the story, I don't know where it's going to lead, then that doesn't work. So points first and stories.

I love that. And then some stories might be a metaphor. It might be a one line. It might be a metaphor. It might be a one line. It might be something longer. Stories can take on so many different shapes and sizes. So then there's not like a uniform like every grandchild is the same size. And I wanna make that point,

but I don't have a story to go with it. So I might say, this is a Mick and I are both published by the same publisher. And their advice to me was until publishing day, it's a sprint. And after publishing day, it's a marathon. And my publishing day was last week. And I feel like I just started a marathon. That's a story. That is a story of an author's journey.

It doesn't have to be long. I don't, I don't agree when people say I don't have time to tell stories. That's just you don't have time to give yourself the freedom to think about them, to be vulnerable, to trust that your audience wants to hear them. So great, I love points and stories, that's terrific. I love it.

And I wanna go straight to the book, The Motivated Speaker, right, The Motivated Speaker. Yeah. Right? The Motivated Speaker. That is you, Mick. Yes. You are the ultimate.

It is not about motivational speaking. No. This is about wanting to learn. That's what this book is about. Totally agree. And because I truly feel everyone may not be a keynote speaker. No. Right? But everyone needs the skills of speaking,

whether you're doing presentations, sales calls, training your employees, right? Everyone needs the skill of speaking. And I think that that's what this book truly delivers, right? Like I would almost call it a blueprint in modern form. And so- May I quote you? A blueprint and I love that.

A blueprint in modern day form. Absolutely, absolutely. We sought that. So I think we did it. And what I love most about our writing process is that we didn't set out to write a book. We specifically set out to answer a question, how can we be better coaches to our speakers? And we sought out a writing scholar who I knew from my alma mater, Miami University, who taught us the notion of threshold concepts, which are those troublesome, recursive,

nudgy things that you have to push through in order to get to the learning. Remember, like trying to learn calculus, and if you didn't get that one really, I can't tell you what it is, because I don't remember calculus. Those are the liminal spaces. They feel uncomfortable. When you get there, you're like, oh, I don't remember those are the liminal spaces. They feel uncomfortable when you get there.

You're like, I don't want to be here. But when you get to the other side, you're forever changed. And we went and asked, had anyone written those or named them for speaking, for learning to speak. And that's what the book ended up being. Cause we, Nate, we spent a year writing, blogging, thinking about what were the calls that we'd get from people that didn't do well? And what were they missing along the way?

And so those are the six principles. And then we put a modern day blueprint in the back of every skill that you need to learn to speak. So if you are a fifth grader and you are 10 years old and I had a fifth grader start to read the book last week with a highlighter, somebody who got the book at the event and sent me a picture the next morning of her daughter who was there and I got on stage and I said,

this book is meant to be read with a highlighter and post it notes and she said, mom, look, I'm on page 25 and I've already highlighted the things I want to remember. This book is for her. It's also for the 65 year old who's starting a consulting practice in their semi-retirement. I have a client like that,

who's learning about what she needs to know about speaking that she never learned. So it is at its heart, a self-help book that reads like a novel, as someone else said. I love that. I love that. So stories and points. We have three different voices of stories in there from our three coaches. And then we have a collective voice of perspective and tips and advice that we

have spent the better part of 15 years assembling. So I love this place. Honestly, I love it. So I want to go into some of the principles in the book. And oh, by the way, Ruth doesn't know this. And those that my avid followers and listeners know, I always do this when I have a great book that I specifically endorse. If you message me and it's got to be the first 10 people, message me motivated speaker, I don't care what platform LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever, and I am going to go

send you a copy of the book. So Ruth, I'm buying 10 copies, or I'm going to buy 20 copies. I'm giving 10 away to listeners and viewers, and I'm going to give 10 to some of my family that and I'm gonna send you 10 of those myself. Well, I'm purchasing 20. So 30 show up, but I'm purchasing 20. You are, you're a hero. That sounds great. We want as many people to be able to get it as possible, for sure. Perfect. So let's talk about some of the principles. What do people that are, I'm going to say truly speaking, just because you've been on a stage also doesn't mean that you're a speaker. So I'm going to debunk some and

hurt some feelings. Some feelings need to be heard. Right. Right. What are a couple of key things that people that want to speak, that want to improve their speaking, or that just want to get started. What are a couple of things from Ruth, the expert, that they need to incorporate now? I think it would be, who've us, and I'm happy to run through them. I'm going to hit all six, but very quickly.

I will tell you the top two of the six. The top two are the first one and the last one. So you have to listen all the way through. Let's go. First one is there's no natural speaker. No one's born a speaker. Everyone is habitual. And if you are not a good speaker, you can become one. If you have a bad habit, you can work out of it. So that's number one. Number two, speaking is embodied. By the way, this is not embodied. Imagine how much energy I was expending being who I thought I had. That's reading someone's written word. Right. Comes through eye contact, body, hand gestures, our soma, our bones, our energy, our space, you know,

how we move in space, speaking is embodied. Number three, speaking comes in many genres. This is a genre. I know that you and I are set up to have a conversation. This is not meant for me to come on here and monologue to you. have a conversation. This is not meant for me to come on here and monologue to you. A panel should be a dialogue, not a monologue.

Often isn't. A keynote has a genre. An interview has a genre. And if you're not ruthlessly interrogating them, I say that pun intended. No pun. You're right. Then you're going to miss something.

You're going to not read the room. You're not going to know how long to go. You're not going to know what kind of seats you're in. Right, so speaking comes in many genres. Speaking is social. And we have, we could edit that out. Speaking is social. Our audiences make meaning of our words. You start talking jargon to an audience that doesn't get the jargon,

they're not going to listen to you. It is fleeting. Actually, one of my childhood friends posted on LinkedIn this morning, one sentence from the book that struck her most. She was the former CIO of Ohio State. She's big brain. Speaking, they will forget the words and this is sort of the Maya Angelou quote, right?

But it's because speaking is fleeting. We don't actually remember what you said. Right. So we have to really think about the impact we want to make. Right. So we have to really think about the impact we want to make. Speaking is, of course, there's always one that I'm that I always sort of gloss over. But the last one, I'll come back. The last one, the most important one is speaking requires feedback.

Yes. And your own. Yes. And your own. Yes. What are the bookmark that we had made since you think speaking public speaking is hard imagine trying to watch yourself on a recording. That's harder. Yeah. We are really reluctant to listen to ourselves speak. Now as a podcast host you do all the time. So you catch things in your edits and review that have made you a better speaker naturally, even though I said speaking isn't natural, but the process of listening to yourself, I had a speaker.

Not want to listen to themselves and refuse then in that moment to not learn and not get better. then in that moment to not learn and not get better. It's so painful, but one minute of listening to yourself puts yourself in the audience. And all of a sudden, you're like, wait, do I want to be listening to myself? Yeah. Right. So the first one and the last one are definitely the most important speaking is habitual speaking requires feedback. And speaking is messy. That's the last one. There's always something we forget speaking is messy. And this goes back to the points.

There's a messy middle in every talk we give. We think we know what we're going to say and we think we're down ahead and then all of a sudden we have to switch. It's like a train track. We have to switch over to a different lane and we have to be willing to be uncomfortable and wrong and we have to be willing to be uncomfortable and wrong. And we have to be willing not to be perfect the first time we try. And when you are willing to do that, then, then it'll flow and you run it by

people, the right people with the right feedback. Speaking is messy and sometimes we forget things. Anyway, those are the six. That's as fast as I can do them. We are, um, unpacked each one of those with sub points and lots of stories. But we tuck those stories in once the six were finished. So back to your point. No, I love that, Ruth, because I tell people the same thing. I don't call it messy. And

so I'm not going to take that because it's yours. I always told people that speaking is complex, but to your point, you've got to practice and you got to rehearse. And I know it's boring, right? But this is why you have to do it, because you've got to feel the audience, right? If there's one thing that I learned from, there's many things I learned from Les Brown,

but if there's an important piece, it's listen to the listening. And he says, that's where speakers go wrong because you've got this point that you want to make, right? And maybe in your mind- What if you're making that point where you can see each other? Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. By the way, we can't, the listeners can't see that unless they're watching the video, but my daughter is two years older than my son, and my son will start talking about something very nerdy, and she won't say anything, she'll just put her head back. Right, and lock out. It's hilarious, she won't even say anything to him, like, I'm not listening, she just tells him

through her non-verbals, I'm not listening, and if he misses it, it's even funnier. Right, right. We have to speak, we have to listen to the listening or speak to the listening as we like to say. We have to address it. I need to say, is that point making it for you? Cause it sounds like it might be bored

or you're distracted or are you texting for dinner? No, exactly. And what I got from Les is this, right? You've got maybe four points that you want to make in a 30-minute keynote, right? Yeah, maybe. But if the listening says that point one is the point, then you've got to know, all right, I'm only going to get to three points. And the point that I'm making here is this.

You've got to know how to tell your point or get to your point in a 60 second version. Yes. A three minute version, a seven minute version, because when you're listening to the listening, you never know where that's going to go. And I, you know, I have a lot of friends that are comedians and they do the same thing, right? Like this joke might not be hitting and I need to know how to wrap it up in 60 seconds or the audience is loving this joke. How can I keep hammering this joke over and over again? And now it's a five minute bit, but for, from a speaker's perspective, that should be the best feeling when what you thought was going to be a three

minute point, the art, you can feel the audience. And now you can go places and make that point five, seven, 10 minutes. And now you're engaged, they're engaged, and you just had an impactful keynote, but you rehearsed it. You practice it going back to your point. It's complex. It's never the same. I can take the same keynote, Ruth, and do that keynote 15 different ways because of the audience listening or the audience reaction.

Right. And it's also who came before you and did you have coffee or not? Is it after lunch? There's so many environmental things you have to take into consideration. Hey, Mick, can I run my one-sentence keynote promised by you? Let's do it. Somebody taught me early in my career that you don't have a keynote unless you have a promise.

What do I promise to leave you? So we've been working on what is that thing that we would say? Or it's because nobody wants to be lectured about the threshold concepts. They are important to read and I digest. So here it goes. Let's see if I can get it down. In every situation when you're speaking, there's something you do that's a little annoying.

Could be a filler word, might talk on too long, talk too fast, not read the room. I call that a shaded habit. Not a habit in the shadows, but something that's everyone can see, it's just a little muted and everyone goes, yeah, that's just Mick. But the minute you move to something illuminated,

an executive presentation, a board presentation, a keynote stage, a very big business pitch. There's no more shade. And that carries with you and now becomes a risk of them not hearing you, of them getting in your own way of your message. And it's my presumption that everyone's got at least one shaded habit. And so in the next, in our keynotes, we invite people and we tell a few stories to get them thinking. And then we invite them to whiteboard.

And I did it last night and I had a hundred habits on a whiteboard behind me within like a minute and a half. And we see kind of by a vote, which one is the most pervasive in the room. And then we go there and we work on it. What do you think? That's amazing. That's why you're brilliant, Ruth.

Oh, I'm not really, but we've been working that that that took a lot of mess to get to as a demonstration for your listeners. We started in many different places. How do you actually take 240 pages of content and distill it down that makes it relevant in a live setting? Just hard. It's really hard. But we're excited.

We're excited about that. And hopefully that struck a chord with you. It did. It did. Ruth, and I know we're short on time, but goodness, I could talk to you forever. Really quick. You can do part two if you want. We're definitely going to do part two because we haven't even talked about Tedx, Columbus, and all the cool things you're doing with Tedx and all of that.

I love that I used to. I did officially retire. I don't know how many others have retired, but we had to give it up in COVID. I did it for 2009 to 2021. Yeah. Yeah. And I would be delighted to come back and it's still going strong, but it was the seminal moment for me in shifting my business to doing this work.

Cool. Well, that's going to segue into my top five with Ruth. Okay. Here we go. This is my quick five. One, what is your favorite TEDx talk of all time? What is your favorite Tedx talk of all time? Oh. You gotta cut this out. I'm just, there's three and I wanna give the one it's, oh my gosh, the lawyer, the African-American lawyer. Help me out. Bryan Stevenson. My favorite talk of all time is Bryan Stevenson.

Bryan Stevenson, got it, love it. We're gonna follow up on that one on part two. What is your go-to ritual before stepping on stage? It starts several weeks before, and the exact moments before is I put my notes down and I tell myself, I got this. Love it, love it. What's the most surprising lesson you've learned as a coach?

That I have to go to where people are, but keep in mind where I want them to be. I like that. That was an early, hard lesson. I have this expectation I want them to be here. It may take a seven steps when I thought it would only take two. I love that. If you, and my clients now tell me trust Ruth and trust the process.

Like they'll say, you know, go work with Ruth. I'll get invited to another team and they'll say, just trust the process because I have come to believe that everyone will get there, but maybe different speeds and different paces. So that was, that was, that maybe at different speeds and different paces. So that was, that was, that's been everything for me, Mick, is realizing that everyone's got a different pathway. But I keep in mind what I need them to do at the end.

Describe Ruth. Describe Ruth in one word. Full. Ooh, I like that. I have had a full life. Describe Ruth in one word. Full. Ooh. I like that. I have had a full life. I have, I'm full of ideas. I have full expectations for people.

I feel very full in my privilege and my opportunities, and I'm full of family. I just feel right now, at least in this moment in my life, I'm an author now. My children are right now, at least in this moment in my life, I'm an author now. My children are both in college, paid off my house. I feel full. I love that. I love that.

And then the last one, where do you want people to go buy this book? It's kind of a tricky question today for purposes of reviews. I would like you to buy it on Amazon and I would like you to buy it. I would like you to review it. All right. I'm a big independent bookstore person though. So go find, go ask your independent bookstore and support them through bookshop.

I'm, you know, I'm a little torn because the book industry creates a little bit of tension, but it's on all the channels and themotivatedspeaker.com will take you there. Themotivatedspeaker.com. I'm going to have that in the show notes in the description. Ladies and gentlemen, this is my good friend, Ruth Milligan. Ruth, thank you so much for your time today. You mean the world to me, so thank you. Mick, thank you.

What a delight. Thank you so much for having me on. You got it. To all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mick Unplugged. If today hits you hard, then imagine what's next.

Be sure to subscribe, rate, and share this with someone who needs it. And most of all, make a plan and take action. Because the next level is already waiting for you. Have a question or insight to share? Send us an email to hello at mcunplugged.com. Until next time, ask yourself how you can step up.