Mick Unplugged - Sergeant James Booker on Integrity, Prison Politics, and Leading with Character

Episode Date: April 26, 2025

Sergeant James Booker is a retired law enforcement officer with a remarkable legacy of service, leadership, and integrity. Growing up in a family deeply rooted in law enforcement in Pensacola, Florida, Booker began his public service after leaving the Marine Corps and worked his way from the only true "prison" in Florida—Florida State Prison—to the progressive and challenging Broward County Sheriff's Department. Over the course of his career, Booker earned a reputation for steadfast principles, hands-on leadership, and unwavering commitment to doing what’s right, no matter the cost. His journey includes facing the harsh realities of the correctional system, mentoring future leaders like Raymond Hicks, and providing guidance and hope to those navigating profound personal and professional trials. Takeaways: Character and Standards Matter: Booker emphasizes that maintaining your values and upholding high standards, especially in positions of authority, defines your legacy and influence as a leader. Prisons Run on Complex, Unseen Dynamics: The real-life operations and power structures inside prisons are far more nuanced and disciplined than most people realize—offering a stark contrast to TV and movie depictions. Leadership is Service and Sacrifice: True leadership is shown through mentorship, unwavering support during adversity, tough but fair accountability, and always putting integrity above personal convenience.  Sound Bites: "Most people think in Florida that there's a multitude of prisons. It's only one prison in the state of Florida... everything else is a correctional facility or work camp." "At the end of the day, that's all people can judge you on is your character. Nothing else. It's your character." "If something is wrong, just know it's wrong. Nobody can tell you it's right when you know it's wrong." Mick’s Quote: "How you do small things is how you do all things." FOLLOW MICK ON:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mickunplugged/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mickunplugged/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mickunplugged  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mickhunt/Website: https://www.mickhuntofficial.com                                                               Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mick-unplugged/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You got a guy out there, a young lady out there that has probably gone through something similar like you have. And because they heard your story, it gives them hope. It gives them direction. Because a lot of people don't know which way to go or which way to turn in order to put themselves in a position to even start the fight. Welcome to Mick Unplugged, the number one podcast for self-improvement, leadership and relentless growth. No fluff, no filters, just heart-hitting truths, unstoppable strategies, and the mindset shifts that separate the best from the rest.

Ready to break limits? Let's go! Let's go. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today we're going deep into a story and a path of legacy. We're talking to a former police sergeant who stood alongside my former guest, Mr. Raymond Hicks, as a decorated Broward County Sheriff who faced wrongful accusations after exposing internal corruption. Together, they navigated the challenges of integrity with law enforcement, shedding light on systemic issues. Their journey underscores the complexities of upholding justice within the justice system. Please join me in welcoming the courageous, the steadfast,

and the principled, Mr. James Booker. Sergeant Booker, how are you doing today, sir? I'm fine, sir. How are you? I am great. I am honored. Now, selling you offline, like you're someone that I look up to and respect. I have family. Shout out to my cousin, Detective Torrance Jackson, in the Pickens County law enforcement. I have family that's law enforcement, man. So law enforcement is something that I've always held dear to my heart. My grandfather was the first black sheriff in our hometown.

And so we've always had a tradition within our family of upholding the blue to the highest standard, the highest regard. That also doesn't mean that there aren't issues, right? And those issues, we're not pointing them out per se, but just like anything in the school system, there's issues in the government, there's issues, right? Like in people's households, there's issues.

So this isn't definitely not an attack on anything law enforcement, but I just wanted to tell you face to face, man, just honored to know you, honored to be a part of the legacy that you've created. And just would love to hear a little bit about your background. And then we're gonna go into the things that you've done,

go into some specific situations and just let you shed light where you wanna shed shed light brother. Okay, sounds good. Awesome, awesome. So let's talk about Sergeant James Booker, man. Like, where did you grow up? Like, where did this yearning to go into law enforcement start? Well, I grew up in Pensacola, Florida. I as well come from a law enforcement background. My mother, she was in law enforcement. She retired as a

major with the Eskimo County Sheriff's Department. My sister, she retired as a lieutenant with the Eskimo County Sheriff's Department. And my older brother, he worked for ATF and he also worked with the, as an investigator for the state's Attorney's Office in Pensacola as well. So that kind of got my path going. Cause once I left the Marine Corps, you know, I wanted to stay in service. I wanted to do a part in service. I always liked to serve.

That was my whole thing. And then coming from that background, seeing it as I was a young child, I said, that was something that I felt, you know, I could transition into. And that was something I felt I would be good at. I felt like I could transition into, and that was something I felt I would be good at. So when I got out of the service, I looked for an opportunity to get into law enforcement. So I actually kind of a short story,

I was, didn't know where I was going. I was on my way to Miami, cause I heard a lot of things was progressive of African-Americans in Miami. So I said, well, you know what? I loaded up my car after three months of being out of service, didn't know where I was going, didn't have any family.

I jumped in my car and I headed south. So I actually stopped in Gainesville, Florida. And I was at this restaurant called Wax Wags, and it was a breakfast place. So I'm sitting there and I'm gonna age myself for a second. I'm reading the newspaper. And so, yeah, so in the newspaper, they said they was hiring for correction officers. So I'm like, okay, you know what, let me look into this. Not knowing that the place I applied for was Florida

State Prison. And when I went and I did the application, they hired me the same day. Not knowing that they was quite desperate for staff, quite desperate for someone with a background coming from the military that they were looking for. So that started my journey into the correctional process. And that was back in 1983. So that's when I started. So I stayed there, transitioned from Florida State Prison to Gainesville Road Prison, and then from Gainesville Road Prison, I then transferred into the Broward County Sheriff's Department.

And I got to the Broward County Sheriff's Department in 1986, I believe, 1986. Well, I retired recently. I've been retired now 12 years now, this September. All right. Well, one, appreciate everything you've done. Two, congratulations on the retirement. 12 years, right?

That's powerful in and of itself. I love, man, like I'm fortunate. I've never been to prison. Hopefully never go to prison, right? But I've heard stories. What's like a prison story that you've witnessed that the average person wouldn't even believe or could even comprehend? Well, I love to tell this thing. Most people think in Florida that there's like, you know,

multitude of prisons. It's only one prison in the state of Florida. It's only one. And that's Florida State Prison. That is the only building that bears the name prison, which is Florida State Prison. Everything else is a correctional facility or as a work camp or something of that nature. I actually worked at the only prison in the state of Florida. Wow. prison in the state of Florida. At that prison, it was like the very, very hardcore, and like again, I'm gonna age myself. These are guys that, as we say, stood on business. These guys were not snitches. These guys would kill you at the drop of a hat. You know, they were meant something. They truly lived by

code and their code was serious. Being a young man coming out of the military and going into such a place and coming from a disciplined place, believe it or not, that place has real discipline within the prison community. And I don't think a lot of people understand that. You can't do a lot of things because you're an inmate. You can't do certain things like you want to do unless you get permission. If a guy want to stab a guy, he got to get permission. He just can't go stab this guy. It doesn't work like that.

I think people, when they see TV, they think, oh, this guy, you know, you see a movie and a guy stabbed a guy. No, it's not like that. It's politics. It's big politics. And if you're from a certain part of Florida, then you're basically in that bus with those guys from Miami, or you in part of central Florida,

or wherever you are. And if you're a guy coming in from another state, you gotta pick a bus. And it's totally different. And I think people don't really know the dynamics that goes on there. another state, you got to pick a bus. And it is, it's, um, it's totally different. And I think people don't really know the dynamics that goes on there. Because if you think about it, you got some of the most, um, ruthless guys that you would ever know. Every guy you see on channel six, seven and five on the six o'clock news that

did a hate is crime. Most of them ended up there. They all in one place. Just think about that for a minute. You've got a lot of predators, a lot of psychopaths. You've got a lot of mental health. You got all this in one place. So you got to have order in the order.

They basically set the tone for it. The order would be, and I know that may not sound. Wow. Right. But honestly, they basically ran the prisons. We just managed it. They ran it. Just 80s Miami alone. Probably populated three-fourths of the prison. Absolutely. Because the cocaine thing blew up during the early I mean? It was like a wildfire. The prisons actually couldn't handle it.

And I tell you another thing too, same thing when AIDS came about. The prison system wasn't ready for it. And it blew up. And I mean it blew up, but that's a dynamic that you don't even think about. That guys coming in and they're sick and they get AIDS and it's like, okay, how do you deal with this? Because it was like crack cocaine.

It took off like a wildfire, you know, but, and I'll tell you a quick little story. When I first got there, and in Florida state prison, I was, I'm gonna age myself. I'm young. Most of the guys who worked there, these guys were bricklayers. They were mechanics. these guys had jobs, they were older men. So I'm basically a kid when I walked in there. Yeah. And so it was one of those situations where when you're coming in, being a young guy, it was very few of us, you know, we were looked down upon because it's like, okay, you're here to take our job.

No, I'm here to work. You know, a lot of the older guys, they were very threatened by a younger guys coming in because we could relate to the inmate population because we weren't much older if we were not the same age than most of the guys who was incarcerated. So it wasn't that ever serial thing where we were in conflict with them because we listened to the same music. We knew the same people, meaning when I mean knowing the same people, like people who were like in the music industry, that type of thing.

We knew those people. So, and a lot of the older guys, they were disconnected. All they knew was pounding ground, you know. Guys like dogs, treat them like, you know, mess, you know, cloned on them if they had the opportunity. So, you know, a lot of that went like, you know, mess, you know, pound on them if they had the opportunity. So, you know, a lot of that went on, you know, because they couldn't relate to these guys. It was a different environment.

So you said something, man, and I want to elaborate on, so you said something, again, of movies, right? But like you said the inmates pretty much ran the prison. Like, can you give us an example? Obviously not naming names or anything like that, but can you give an example of what you mean by the inmates who were running the show? Well, like I said, we won't name any names,

but like this particular fellow happened to be out of Miami. And this guy was in there, if I recall, he was in there for like a triple murder. And this guy had huge hands, big hands. And what they did when I was working there is guys, if you had a beef with a guy, we would actually have boxing where guys could actually box. Well, this guy was like the champ of the.

Right. He was the champ of the prison. Yeah. So when this guy went to when this guy went to take a shower, he went with an entourage of people to take a shower. I mean, this guy was like a kingpin basically in prison when he called the shots, he was a shot caller. And if it was food, if it was drugs, if it was hooch, whatever moved through that bus, it had to go through him in order to move. And I mean, us working there, we knew who was who, but that's actually this question. If he can't be there, where would we

send him? That was the worst of the worst. It's not like we can say, okay, we're going to send you to another camp. No, this is it. There's no other place like this place. And this, I mean, that place is an amazing place. And I think you never see any documentaries on it. You never see telling stories about it. You never see cameras there because the thing is society really doesn't want to know there's no weights, more assaults, more murders that happened at that

prison than all the Bradford County, which where the prison is located. It was assaults there every single day, every day. But it was never reported. Nothing ever got to the newspaper. Nobody never knew about the assaults, you know, because basically nobody really wanted to know. Right. Nobody really wanted to know. I mean, what else are you gonna do? They're already there. They're already there. They're already there.

There was no, at that time, there was no reporting system to say, okay, well we had 80 assaults this month. Somebody reported it. It was just assaults. Yeah. And we cleaning up and we going to the next day. But it was a serious environment, you know?

Very serious. Yeah. But they ran, like I said, they ran everything. I mean, you know, and the thing was like certain officers, like if they say, hey, I don't want this guy working here, we couldn't put him down there. And it's not because they're telling us what to do. We need to protect this person.

Because we don't want him getting getting killed because I'll tell you this I'll never forget this story man when I when I was working there. We had this officer He was coming on shift Prior to him coming on shift. It was visitation day where back then an Inmate only got one visit per month. So They had to shave Well, you know black men they suffer from shaving problems to get right we get they get their face gets swollen So this guy said hey, I can't shave. So if you don't shave you can't have your visit

Okay, so he said the next officer come down him. I'm gonna kill it We change shifts next officer come down here, I'm going to kill it. We changed shifts. The officer came down. Not disinformation wasn't passed on. He got killed. He got killed that day. Wow. We had a wife and two kids.

I'll never forget it. Wow. I'll never forget it. You know, I'm into some stories, man. And I'll never forget this story. When I first started working there, it was Christmas Eve night. These teammates had the argument from back in 1978.

They got a vent system. Now, remind you, I told you I didn't start working there until 1983. Right. OK. So it's a five-year buildup. Yes. And what they would do is they got this thing

Where they talk through the vents where you can be on? A whole separate area but the vents they travel so I can have a conversation with you and not even know you And we can get a beef going because there's nothing else to do but have a beef, right? So these two guys ended up getting housed together. Staff didn't know they had a beef. And this guy took a homemade knife that looked like a sword. And he ran it through this guy on Christmas Eve night. That is the first time I ever seen someone get killed in prison. Blood flew out of him like it was water. I'd never seen anything like that.

Now you talking about something that looked like a movie and you want to see how fast blood goes out to human body, hit the right organ and see how much blood come out of it. He killed right there on Christmas evening. I'll never forget it. That was my awakening to the prison system. And it was something to see because it was like man, he just killed this guy like it was nothing, you know,

and he was never getting out anyway. Right. Where else is he going? Yeah, where else is he going? You know, so it's a lot of stories man. I mean I could load you up with stories that I saw man that things happened in that place, man. And it was just like business, normal business. You know, like it was nothing.

Yeah, I'm going to wait till the documentary comes out. I don't want to know anymore till your documentary comes out. You told the world. So you leave there, and you go then to Broward County, I'm assuming, right? So what was the decision to leave prison to go to Broward County? The main factor was I wanted a better environment

because at the time I'm young and up in South Florida, like I said, from what I've gotten was, hey man, that place is really progressive. So coming out of, and I don't know if you're familiar with the location of where Florida State Prison is, but it's in Bradford County, which is right outside of Gainesville. Well, it's country. And so it's not a lot to do there for a young person. So the Sheriff's Department, broader Sheriff's Department was hiring.

So I made the decision, I said, you know what, let me put an application in and obviously the pay was a whole lot better. And so I put in and I got selected and I went down, I took a job. So that's how I ended up down in Breyer County. Awesome, awesome. So when you said outside of Gainesville, there's a small little college and university there

we're not allowed to talk about here. Go Hills and go dogs, but for all my Bulldog fans, you know the college I'm talking about in Gainesville, we're not allowed to talk about it. But so you're at Broward, man. So what is it like there? Obviously it's a different environment, right? So walk us through a little bit of the first few years

of Broward and what that's like. Getting there, us through a little bit of the first few years of Broward and what that's like. Getting there, the Broward Sheriff's Office was in a transition where they just built a brand new facility. Well, they were in need of a lot of people because, like I said, because of cocaine and all those different things, everything was exploding and the bigger facilities were needed for the company, the arrestees. So coming in there, I came in with a lot of young people my age, and also there were some people that was a little bit older, but most of us were pretty much

around the same age in diameter. But the good part was I had already had experience. So coming in from a prison system, coming into a jail facility was night and day. It was totally night and day where it was no discipline. It was no, because these people were coming off the street. So they weren't acclimated to being incarcerated, I should say. It's not like they were like, okay, you know what, I know what to do when I get here. Some of these people are new to the system. Some of these people have been previously obviously, you know, re-arrested, but it wasn't

the kind of structure that you would have in prison. Everybody know we eat at this time in prison. Everybody know we go do this at this time. Things in jail is fluid because people don't stay. You know, they come and go. It's transit. They bond out. They go to prison or whatever the case may be. So it was always over changing. And that's something I had to get used to. Because when I was at prison, at the prison system, I knew I had guys that weren't never going home. Their people was

coming and going. It was always going to change, you know. But being in the jail system, it was quite different because you had a lot of laws that you had to learn, a lot of different rules you had to learn versus prison was basically set in 33-8, which that was the code that governed the prison at that particular time. Amazing.

So then you're there. How did you meet brother Hicks? Or when was that? I met Raymond, I was his supervisor. And man, I can do not, I'm trying to think, cause that's been so long ago. Cause like I say, we were all young. Cause I was, I made supervisor like the first two years,

I was down there as a sergeant. And so Raymond worked under me, and I would say probably 87, 88. I'm thinking maybe the timeframe that he was working for me. And Raymond, like a lot of the young guys who worked up under me, and at this particular time now, I'm becoming one of the older guys because I'm five or six years older than them. I'm much older now.

So these guys, they would go out, they would party, then they called in sick for work. So I'd give them to talk to.. They're not getting the talking to now. I got to give them some paperwork. So now my thing will say, Hey, press down hard. Third copy yours. Take that one for yourself. And believe it or not, I wrote Raymond up. I disciplined him for calling in sick and that believe it believe it or not, brought us closer together. Because he came to me and said, you know what? I'm so glad you wrote me up because you made me realize I have a family

and I need this job. And that's how he and I became close beyond the job. Because I looked at him and I saw, you know what? This guy wanna be here. He know what this guy want to be here You know stays what this means to have this job You know his family was the most important thing you know and unfortunately some of the young fellows that came along They end up getting terminated because of the because they was because of the sick time and he straightened party himself out You know and Raymond was man. Let me tell you Raymond.

Raymond was the type of guy at the job and you see the size of Raymond, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's a massive guy. And back then, you know, guys in jail were big guys, because we had weights in the jails at the time, and these guys work out. And now that they've been working out, they want to test their strength,

or they want to test themselves, you know, because they feel like, okay, I've been working out. I've got to see, I've got to put this to use. Let me see what I can do with staff. So a lot of times, Raymond was called in because of his strength and his size. And especially when he worked for me, I won't call any names, but I had this particular inmate. He was disrespecting one of the females and he was saying all kinds of derogatory things to her saying whatever he was saying to a vulgar, you know, it was

really nasty stuff. So when I came back to work, she said, hey, Sarge, listen, this guy, he's been disrespecting me and why you been off? I said, OK, no problem. Let me talk to him. So I called Raymond down. I said, hey, I need you to come down. Come down here to the unit.

And then because we always use strength in numbers whenever you're working in that environment. It's never one-on-one in this no situation where you really don't want to use force That's the last thing you want to do much more But you always want to show a use of force and most laws will back down when they say that use of force Oh when you're using force, so this particular guy he decided he wanted to go ahead and he wanted to put some work in Okay. Well, you know what? Let's get at it. And subsequently, you know, it didn't go well. Yeah. It did not go well for him. Yeah. And Raymond was always that guy that, listen, man, loyal,

first to come in, always treating these guys fair with respect because he could have hurt a lot of guys. He'd be a big guy. But that wasn't his demeanor. His demeanor was not to come there and be a bully. That wasn't who he was. And the thing about it, Raymond was the type of guy, he would help these guys. He would talk to these guys because a lot of these guys he knew because he was from the community. I wasn't from the community. So I didn't know any of these guys. He knew these guys. He grew up with a lot of these guys. So he had their respect. And then a lot of times I can call Raymond down, he could talk to a guy and kill the situation for me. I ain't even got to deal with it. Yeah. He was talking to the guy because he had that, that relationship.

And that's the thing about working at it in that environment that most people don't understand at that particular time, there was no taser. There was no shield. There was no mace. There was no stun gun. It was none of that. It was your verbal and it was hands on. And no one really wants to go hands-on because you know

Even if you win the fight you still can get hurt and no one wants to get hurt You know, so he was he was he was very very very good at his job, man The man was good, you know, I don't know if he ever shared with you this particular lieutenant They was finna throw this guy off a top tier Raymond only if ever told you the story now, but Raymond broke his index finger, saving his lieutenant from getting thrown over the rail. Wow. Yeah.

That's the type of guy he was. You know what I mean? He was, he was that type of guy. And I mean, in any time that they had an issue with a person that they thought was going to be physical, be a problem, He was one of the guys that they called him. Wow. They called him. Yeah.

The guy was always there, man. And his uniform was always impeccable. He made sure his dress was where it needed to be. Because me being a supervisor, listen, that's something I enforced. If your uniform wasn't right, that is a problem for me. And at the time, we had a scoring system. If your uniform was not what it's supposed to be, I'm going to give you the score you deserve. So whatever that score is, if you get a one, you got a one because you didn't maintain your uniform. That's why you got a one. And I set the example because I wanted you to see what it's supposed to look like.

You know, look that way every day when you go to work because people are respect, you don't have to know anything. But if you look the part, they respect you right off the bat because you look professional. Sergeant Booker, I appreciate that so much because there's a leadership lesson in that. I tell people all the time, there's a standard. And your standard has to be your standard. Because if not, you allow other people's opinions to say who you are. You allow outside influences to dictate the decisions

that you make. And what I've heard from you in everything from being able to write people up, from setting a standard and not being afraid to tell someone, hey, you got a one because you don't look appropriate today, right? Like for everybody that's listening, if you're a leader or if you're accepting a leadership role

or you're thinking about going into a leadership position, the first thing I'm gonna tell you, and you've heard Sergeant Booker talk about it a lot, is you've gotta have a standard and you've gotta set the tone as a leader. So again, I applaud you for that, because it's the little things, and I have the saying, how you do small things is how you do all things.

And I think for you, that's what you're saying, right? Like, if you're willing to come in, not appropriate, then are you really gonna do the job the right way? Can I trust you, if you're not gonna wear a belt, right? And if your shoes aren't gonna be polished the right way? Can I trust you if you're not going to wear a belt, right? And if your shoes aren't going to be polished the right way, am I going to trust you to make a decision out in the field? That's what I hear you saying. Absolutely. And this is the other thing, just like doing the legal documents that we had to do when something occurred and we had to write what was called an event report or a

medical report or something like that. I literally would take a red pen and I would write on the report because I needed you to understand that this report can't go in. You cannot, you know, spare words, misspear words because these documents are going to court. These documents are going, people are going to read these. And I always should say, when you put your name on something, you want that document to reflect who you are. So when people see me, they say, man, Sergeant Booker, man, that guy is square the way. You know why? Because his reports reflect that. He took the time to write it right. He took the time to make sure the words he used were spelled right. And that's important,

especially from a legal standpoint. But you want people to identify with you saying, hey, he takes pride in his job. He goes beyond what needs to be done. When most people cut it short, you go beyond that. Read your policies, know your policies, know how to lead men and women, because it's important.

Most people, they don't know how to lead men and women. The first thing they want to say is, hey, is my way or no way? No, that ain't how it go. And I'm gonna tell you how to fix it and together we both wish learn from it and we're gonna be better for it But if I just if I don't give you the right direction guess what? We all lose and then when you leave me and go to someone else know what they're gonna say Hey, man, sergeant book. I had this guy for a whole year man. This guy came right. He don't know how to do reports He don't know how to do reports. He don't know how to do reports. He don't know how to do reports He don't know how to do reports. He don't know how me and go to someone else, know what they gonna say? Hey man, Sergeant Booker had this guy for a whole year.

Man, this guy can't write. He don't know how to do reports. He don't know who to call. That's important. That's a reflection of who I am. I can't let that be a reflection on me that's negative. I can't do that. Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. I can't do that. Absolutely. So you just gave me a bunch of accolades for Raymond. Obviously at this time you hold him in, I'm going to say, the highest regard. Absolutely. Yes.

And then all of a sudden, you as his supervisor, the person he reports to, now you start getting, and I don't know how this works, so I'm going to totally give you the floor. But I can assume that before he knows something is going down, his supervisor probably knows something is going down or there's some accusations or maybe there's some things going on. What is it for you when you hear or you see, hey, the Raymond that you think you know isn't the Raymond that we are seeing out here or that we know? Well, the thing is, I don't really know

what all led to Raymond's accusations. But I tell you this, because all that's in a whole separate department, where they do the internal affairs investigations and then they bring charges or whatever they do. So you really don't know what's going on until it happens. So it's not like you hear anything because it's all in a separate building and it's all internal within side of that organization. So when the situation happened with Raymond, like myself and many of us, totally shocked. Because I know his character. I know the man. I know the person, you know, and Raymond became,

you know, some he became a friend just as well as a coworker and someone I supervised because like I told you earlier, I saw a lot in Raymond because woman is the type of person and anybody who knows Raymond and will speak the truth on Raymond if they know him personally They know Raymond to give you the shirt off his back. That's the type of person Raymond Yes, never has a big heart. Well Raymond is a God-fiend man A lot of people don't even know that that demand is very spiritually bound He is and and when he went through that situation it was like I say alarm

bells went off because I'm like no this ain't this ain't that ain't my guy you know and it was it was like no that's not him that's not him you know and so it was it was quite shocking you know when it when it came down but no no one like I said I didn't hear any whispers like I, 99% of investigations like that, they're going no one knows anything. You don't know anything until. Yeah, gotcha. Did you face any backlash post arrest? No.

None? No. Good stuff, good stuff. So you said, you know, you saw it, that's not the Raymond you know. Talk about, you know, as Raymond and the family are going through it, right? Like what's on Sergeant Booker's heart at that time?

I'll tell you, my wife and I, we, when Raymond had, when Raymond had came home and got an opportunity to sit down with his wife and his kids and everything, and actually the man was destitute. I mean, he, you know, there's two years that he was away and I guess whatever legal expenses that he had, it's chewed up whatever finances that they may have had. And obviously with that being said, you know, that puts you in a financial

bind with credit cards and everything else on the map, pretty much was destitute. So my wife and I, you know, we said, listen, let's, let's do what we can do to help them. So we were able financially to bless them and try to help them somewhat from where we could do to help them as a family. Because, you know, I could only imagine, I know if I was going through something like that, someone who knows me as an employee first, someone who will supervise me, cycling, and someone that I call a friend would be there for me.

Because as we know, most times, when it's time for someone to help you row that boat, they ain't there. You're riding the boat as long as the motor running. If you gotta get out and row, I don't know if I can help you. Or I'm afraid to deal with you because I don't want something blowing back on me

like you asked me earlier. Well, I know I'm an upstanding guy. And I know I've always did everything to the best of my ability with the Sheriff's Department. And I don't see why it's a conflict for me helping a friend. This is a friend. This is not a friend. This is not someone that I don't see where it's a conflict for me having a friend. This is a friend. This is not

I mean, this is not someone you know that I don't know. Yeah, and let's be clear. He went to court He was exonerated. So Why wouldn't I have a friend correct? Well, when why wouldn't I help his family if I can? Why wouldn't all of his friends kept it? Why wouldn't all of his friends help him? Why wouldn't he all? Because he helped so many. See, that's the thing. You know, if people would like totally be honest,

and this is why, like I always tell Raymond, I don't associate myself with only a few people. And I learned this in life. I learned this in life. And I always say if I took my jacket off and you could see my back, you'd see knives, lies, spoons, forks, bricks, shovels, trucks, you name it. It's all been in my back. So I've learned, and like I share with Raymond, learn to separate yourself and only feel yourself with people who can feel you yeah you can't give yourself to the world because the world

don't appreciate you if you're a person that's always given a person or a giver they'll use you up don't take advantage of that so you got to protect yourself by saying you know what I'm only going to be around people I know if I pick up the phone and I call you and if you if I need a thousand dollars There's no question why I need it. I know the money coming. I Know it's coming and there's no question and there's no question. Hey when you gonna pay me back No, you get it back to me when you need to So, I mean that's the world that I try to let Raymond

Share in the fact that look at my life You see why I don't deal with a lot of people and that was I did that on purpose to to to get you in a place with your story that you're dealing with and what you're going to everybody don't need to be a part of your journey because everybody don't know what you're going through yeah well and like I tell him all the time I said Raymond a lot of people are trying to attach themselves to you Your story is only unique to you and I said people cannot help you

Because they don't know what you're going through a lot of people they criticize me Oh, you've been going through this for so long and I always told him I said Raymond It's your life and you have to fight for your life and what you feel You was wrong and you feel like you need to get yourself vindicated in your family? Did you fight for your life? It doesn't matter what the next person say and I said think about this Raymond Think about the journey that God has put you on you became an author of a book You ran for public office You got your degree you became a part of eternity.

You've been on all different types of podcasts. You do a backpack drive every year in the community. I said look at all the things because of what happened to you. Look at all the great things that God continuously blessed you with. Amen. And I said and as long as you understand that it's all a blessing and because your story is so unique You able to share that story with so many and I told him this just the other day when I spoke to my son Raymond, I said think about this You got a guy out there a young lady out there that has probably gone through something similar like you have And because they heard your story, it gives them hope, it gives them direction because a lot of people don't know which way to go

or which way to turn in order to put themselves in a position and even start to fight. That's right. So think about the reason you went through what you went through and maybe God said that reason it really wasn't for you, it was for you to help someone else, a lot of someone else's. Because I'm going to take care of you. I'm going to make sure you're fine. But I need you to go through this so you can help a lot of people.

Because a lot of people go through a lot of things in law enforcement. Law enforcement is a job that you can go to work today on top of the world. And by 3 o'clock this afternoon The world can be on top of you and it probably has nothing to do with anything you did You just could have been present you could have just been in the area and now you fighting for your job But you fight you know to me and that's what happens that can happen, you know

And just like when Raymond, you know, this man basically was fighting for his life and so I'm seeing you know, this man basically was fighting for his life. And so as a friend, you know, and somebody who tried to be a person that he could, you know, come to for, for, for, for, I don't even use the word comfort, but come to somebody for guidance and some correction and understanding, because let me tell you something, I tell Raymond a lot of things he don't want to hear because I consider myself a big brother to him. That's it. I consider myself a friend. I'm not, I'm myself a big brother to him. That's it. I consider myself a friend

I'm not I'm not a yes, man. I've never been there So and I've always lived my life man. I'm gonna tell you what's on my mind And sometimes I should but for me if you should if I'm your brother, man, this is all gas. No break I'm gonna tell you just what I'm thinking. Yes You know, and even if it hurts and even if you don't speak to me for a week, you know what? I'm still okay. Did you go back to me? That's it. I told you what was right. That's all Sergeant Booker man, you you're giving us all the leadership lessons right here, man like

We've been talking for 30 plus minutes and it feels like 10 because I'm learning From you like you're speaking to me in a lot of this, you know, like leadership is my thing and business growth is my thing. And so, you know, I want to, I want to ask you this on the way out, like for the listeners and viewers, what's one tip, what's one piece of advice that you want people to know where to follow from the words of the

master himself, Sergeant James. But I would tell anybody, never change who you are, never compromise your values. And if something is wrong, just know it's wrong. Nobody can tell you it's right when you know it's wrong and don't fall into what is wrong when you know what is right. You know, I would tell any person there because it all starts with your character.

Because at the end of the day, that's all people can judge your own is your character. Nothing else. It's your character. I love that. I totally love that. I love that, brother. I love you.

I know that you have, even though you're retired, you've got this busy schedule. So the fact that you were able to take some time out of your day and spend time with us on Make and Play podcast, I truly appreciate it, man. And anytime you want to be back on and just drop wisdom from you, I would love to have you on, man. Like, I learned a lot from this conversation

from a leadership perspective. The insights that you have, the standards that you created, and the straightforwardness that's about you, I totally appreciate that, respect that, and love you, brother. Yes, same here. And thank you for the opportunity. And like I told you earlier, Mike,

I really appreciate the work that you do. These, the podcast is something that I think will reach many and I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to speak. Thank you. All the time, all the time. Anytime you wanna be back on, I promise I got you. I promise I got you.

All right, for all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mick Unplugged. If today hits you hard, then imagine what's next. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and share this with someone who needs it. And most of all, make a plan and take action because the next level is

Already waiting for you. Have a question or insight to share send us an email to hello at Mick unplugged com Until next time ask yourself how you can step up