Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1040: Jamal Liggin

Episode Date: May 27, 2019

In this episode, Sal, Adam and Justin talk with Jamal Liggin, trainer of top-tier pro athletes and entertainment celebrities. How Marshawn Lynch ‘rubbed’ Adam the wrong way. (2:12) Why Jamal knew he was a trainer before he even knew he was a coach. (5:17) Where does his incredible drive and work ethic come from? (16:50) How he applies what he sees to incorporate into his client’s workouts. (20:10) Why it’s not about being the fastest guy anymore but maintaining the speed. (22:55) What are the biggest misconceptions about training for athletic performance and explosiveness? (25:05) The major differences in training between the college vs. professional athlete. (36:00) The hierarchy of tools used to control the body and get FASTER. (37:37) What are some of the most important exercises young athletes can do? More advanced athletes?  (44:15) Impressive stories from the athlete’s he has trained and worked with. (45:53) The importance of being AWARE of your body. (49:13) The illusion that ALL professional athletes have the best trainer training them: How social media is diluting good trainers’ brand. (53:48) The pros and cons of bilateral vs. unilateral movements. (1:00:22) How did his partnership with Nike happen? (1:03:09) How your work ethic plays a KEY role in your success. (1:06:27) The importance of warming up/priming the body before a workout. (1:13:38) Biggest pet peeve with his athletes? (1:15:46) What are the current trends he is seeing? (1:16:54) Why sometimes being a workhorse in the gym doesn’t apply on the field. (1:21:14) The process to become a trainer in his gym. (1:25:25) The differences between working with athletes vs. celebrities. (1:27:58) Featured Guest/People Mentioned Jamal Liggin (@jamalliggin)  Instagram Website Shawn Lynch (@beastmode)  Instagram Odell Beckham Jr (@obj)  Instagram Joe Haden (@joehaden23)  Twitter Alana Blanchard (@alanarblanchard)  Instagram Diddy (@diddy)  Instagram Related Links/Products Mentioned May Promotion: MAPS HIIT ½ off!! **Code “HIIT50” at checkout** MAPS Memorial Day Sale: Bundles 20% off – Use Code “MDBUNDLE” / Programs 30% off – Use Code “MDPROGRAM” **Both codes expire at 11:59PM PST on Monday, May 27th 2019. The Virgin Way: Everything I Know About Leadership – Book by Richard Branson

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Man, oh man, oh man, was this a good time right here? I had been working on getting Jamal in the studio for quite some time right now. This dude literally trains the best of the best to cream of the crop. Oh, for sure in the NFL. I mean, you owe Dell Beckham, Seikwon Barkley, Mercedes Lewis, Marshawn Lynch, Vaughan Miller, Leonard Fernet, Puff Daddy.

Yeah, he trains celebrities too. Oh, yeah. He has everybody, dude. Some of the best players in the NFL have trained with him. And he was a really, really fun conversation and it been a long time trainer. Excellent, excellent personal trainer. I always love talking to strength coaches and trainers

who really know their stuff. And he's definitely one of them, not just because he trains these high level athletes, but when we, you'll hear in this episode, we talk all about training and exercise in the application, or at least I should say the correct application of exercise. And then we talk about a story.

Very entertaining, I really enjoyed interviewing Jamal. You can find him on Instagram at JamalLigan. That's J-A-M-A-L-L-I-G-G-I-N. And then his website is JamalLigan.com. We know you're going to enjoy this episode. Also, before we get going on that, I want to remind everybody that Maps Hit is 50% off. Remember, Maps Hit is our best fat burning

in the short-term program that we offer. This program's half off. All you got to do to get it is go to maps, hit MAPS, h-i-i-t, dot com, and use the code hit 50, h-i-i-t 50 for the discount. Also, there's about one day left for our apparel blowout sale. All of our clothes, almost all of them, are 50 to 70% off on some of those. You can find those at mindpumpmedia.com. So without any further ado, here we are talking to Jamal Ligan.

So we are off air and I was a little nervous to talk on air about this, but now I feel a little bit better about like talking about it. So I have a Marshawn Lynch story and I knew that you guys were boys because you originally were in Detroit, Michigan, then you moved to Oakland, am I correct? And I'm assuming that's where you guys linked up. And so I knew you were boys and I'm like, dude, like, Marcion Lynch is like the only like pro athlete that I think that's ever really rubbed me the wrong way. And I'm like, do I bring this stuff with this guy? Like, are they gonna be, is he gonna get fucking defensive about it? Because I was like my first experience with March on Liches this so I'm at David

Lee's birthday party and we're hanging out at the San Francisco club or a restaurant real nice little private venue. There's probably only about 30 of us. Most of them were obviously warrior players, Dreymon's there and obviously him and Dreymon are friends and incomes March on Lynch like probably half hour in the dinner so he didn't make it on time. Correct. He's carrying a bottle of Hennessy. That's actually on time.

Yeah. It's on time. It's just so cool, huh? Yeah. So he's carrying a bottle of Hennessy and he comes walking up the stairs and of course I recognize him right away and he just kind of has this demeanor. It doesn't really say hi to nobody, it goes over, it sits down enough to drain on and he's just kind of to this like demeanor. Doesn't really say hi to nobody goes over, sits down to us to Dremon. And he's just kind of to himself over there with Dremon

doing his own thing. And then as the night progresses, you know, some of my buddies like Marquette King and stuff over there, talking to him and he's just he's fucking with everybody. Yeah, he's poking at everybody in this that and him and I haven't said words or anything. I don't know about this cat, dude. I can't tell if he's being a dick like he's trying to insert himself or what? And so that was my first experience with with Marshawn and later on in the night, we were at the clubs together in VIP area and he was fucking with me. And so before you came on, I was thinking like, dude, I'm going to

should I tell this guy this? I really want to know because he's the only athlete I've ever dealt with where I just didn't get a read on. I'm like, is this guy really fucking with me or what? I mean, that's him read on him. Like, is this guy really fucking with me or what? I mean, that's him in the nutshell. Like, when he got traded from the Buffalo Bills to the Seattle Seahawks, he gave me a cause. I am coming to the gym. And I'm like, all right, cool, let's do it.

I'm like, all right, I programmed a whole six weeks ready to work out. First thing he wanted to do was race me. Because the last time we race was in high school. Yeah, okay. And he was like, dude, you're still not faster than me. I'm like, what? Like, I've seen you in like a long time.

I'm happy for you. Let's get back to work. Nah, bro, I'm not training till we raise. And keep in mind, he doesn't even have training shoes. I just got sandals on. You know, he's fresh off the plane. And I had a bunch of like, I had about like 50 kids in the gym And in transition so like 20 kids coming in and like another group of kids about to leave and they're like and I can't look like a punk

You know and some of these kids don't know our relationship like that. So he's like, you know going at it I got a racist dude He's calling me out, you know, and you know, he beat me I go lie he beat me But we raised an off camera. But that's just him, like coming into the gym he just wants to just poke at you. You may mess with you. See where you're at, it's like an Oakland thing.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great. For sure. So you gotta share your, you got an incredible story. I know you're originally from Detroit, Michigan and then you moved over to Oakland, but I'd love for you to kind of start off to let our audience know how you actually even fell

into becoming a personal trainer. What did that look like? Well, it's crazy because I feel like I was a trainer or at least a coach before I even knew I was a coach. I guess like you can say, I was fairly gifted to be fast. I kind of just knew what to do to run faster. And when I was in high school in college, all the guys were like, bro,

I'm about to go to that hill you live on and run with you. Or I'm about to do some extra work in the weight room. And I was just like, man, I'm just trying to look good to roll my sleeves up. And then at the same time, I wanted to be faster for football and track. But it was like, I just wanted to be in shape. I kind of like early on in my high school college career,

I didn't understand like how guys were so fast and I wanted to figure it out. And then when I went to college, I kind of suffered like a little bit of a knee injury and I did fairly good. I did really well in the 100 to 200 meter dash. I was angering a four by one. I was long jumping like 25 feet

But I still just didn't understand it and I got into a little bit of trouble and Kind of like my grades started slipping and I got on academic sports academic probation So at that point in time I could only work out I Couldn't work out with the team and because I still like you know I was a football player turned into a track athlete. So I gravitated to football players. So the football team was all from different parts of the country, I was at Alabama State.

And they were like, dude, I'm gonna start working out with you. I see you in the gym. You're not like, with the team right now, I'm like, cool, let's work out. I would be in there before class, afternoon, after class, and started training. Some of the people that were not athletes, like some people were like, afternoon, after class, and started training some of the people that were not athletes, like some people were like, dude, I was like, what is that you're doing?

I would literally get on a squat rack and do six sets of 225 and the way the gym was set up, it was like an open shed, immediately jump off the squat rack and just run 100. And people were like, what the hell is this dude doing? But it was just like, I just go home and write down what I did, not even know I was programming myself. Into my like second year at Alabama State,

my mom got sick. So I came home. A lot of the coaches in Oakland remember me from what I did as far as running track and playing football and stuff like that. And just being one of the fast kids They started pairing me up with a lot of the up and coming kids from the high school I went to in like different schools like Oakland Tech

Mac skyline Insanel all these different schools in area were like dude. You need to go to that Jamal guy and just work out with them I would take these kids up to Cal. We do the bleachers. We go to different areas where there's like the beach and the Alameda and I was just doing stuff I did to get ready for college and it just started growing like crazy. I was training at Lake Merit in the morning before I had to go to work at sleep tray mattress, Nike and San Francisco. And then I was also working an overnight shift at Albertson's low in shelves

and get right back every morning and just train. But I was always known as that kid from Lake Merritt. As time went on and like you said, I grew up with Martian and we kinda had a good relationship. After he got done with Cal, he went to the Buffalo Bill. So that four-year time span is when I had an opportunity to kind of build my name as a trainer without Martian.

People didn't know that relationship yet. So then when he came back and got traded from Buffalo Bill since he had a see-hawks, it was like, that's Martian's trainer. I need to do what Martian's doing. And that was 10 years ago. And just a quickly fast forwarded, it's full circle again with Odell. But back to what I was saying, the process was so beautiful because it was organic. I didn't, my space was just starting.

Instagram wasn't even thought of. So you're an old guy like us. I'm a old guy, I'm old. I'm a old school. Yeah, I do it all. I was sitting out front of Jim's, passing out flyers. Oh yeah. Talked myself how to use Photoshop and was making homemade flyers at every game I could go to to put on cars.

In the process, one of my clients had a workout, a local tryout with the 49ers, and he was a product of West Oakland. And so he says, we need a gym. I can't keep doing pushups outside. He's like, bro, I'm strong. It's how I never done 300 pushes of my life, but I'm strong.

But I need to, I need some weights. I was like, all right, cool. Do you have access? We can go to 24-A fitness, equinox with the time, there's like crunch or whatever. So I was like, all right, cool. What do you want to do? He said, well, I got access to the Boys and Girls Club

in West Oakland. I was a member there and I'm older now, so I don't really go. I went down to the Boys and Girls Club in West Oakland, talked to the director, asked him if it was possible to use the weight room. The weight room was, I'm talking about the gym equipment was the most old, the crepe, we went in there, cleaned it up, created a,

I guess what you can call the original JLT facility. It was a room half the size of this. Has squat rack. This is when Baron Day was on the team. So they donated all this equipment. Okay. Steph Curry wasn't even thought of yet at the time. So they donated all this equipment and we just cleaned it up.

And in exchange for them letting me use the weight room, I did a child obesity program for the kids. I did a program for the girls volleyball, like we did training and then I was the coach. I also taught the kids how to use laptops, build websites, learn how to use Photoshop. Oh wow, that's great. This is like something they had never like really been exposed to. You know, and so it was like a different spin.

And then at the same time, I would take the boys and they're and do boxing with them. So it was like, it was cool. I really enjoyed it. I lived in West Oakland. I could walk to work if I needed to. And I got an opportunity then to bring my college and post professional clients, you can say it,

to the weight room. So it was good. That ended up turning into me building, you can say it, to the weight room. So it was good. That ended up turning into me building a name in Oakland. Ended up working at a couple more private facilities where I rented out space and like all my clients have done now, they've come with me. So I brought, everywhere I went, the clients all just kept growing.

Ended up partnering with a good friend of mine, Eugene Smith. He's actually from the Bay Area. And we created a gym where we had CrossFit meets performance training. So that's a lot of the older clips that you see on YouTube and stuff with me, Tranny Morshan, is him at that gym. And that was in the transition phase from Buffalo to Seattle.

And that's when he did that 78 yard touchdown, hold him up, you know what I mean? So that was that year where it just skyrocketed. It picked up pretty quickly where I got a lot of awareness from different places around the country. And myself personally, I like to research what other trainers and coaches are doing, especially at that time in a field.

And then guys who were preparing to go to the NFL or Tom Shaw was one of my idols at the time. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the Spark, Brad, Nike, and all the camps they used to do at Stanford and whatnot. So I was like, how do I get involved in this? This is like, I've already got 100 something kids that go to these, let me figure it out.

I was looking at Tom Shaw, Pete Bummerito, before it was called Exos, I was looking up API. It's called API, it's all right. Just every facility I could think of and just trying to figure out how are these guys doing this? Well, what are you doing this? What are you starting to put together and formulate for yourself? Are you really impressed?

Are you going, wow, it's not that impressive. What are you, what are you noticing when you're checking all this out? I, and I'll be honest with you, I was noticing that the trainers were all close to 40 years old. And then my, it kind of discouraged me because I'm like, I'm not seeing any guy who's at the time, I was like 23, 24. I'm not seeing any young trainer that's like, has a name for himself. So I'm thinking, man, I gotta wait 20 years to be the guy. But at the same time, I know that I'm not,

I don't wanna be necessarily the guy. I was okay being the back burner. I'm okay with Marcian having the best career of his life and no one knowing who I am. I'm more worried about my college kids getting to the pros and that was okay for me and It it kind of sparked something where I was like man. I need to create something Something that I did but something that is more custom to what any athlete can do any sport so more of a

Function and I didn't know what the terminology at the time. Honestly, there's functional movement single leg squat, single leg step ups, single leg RDLs, were like the pinnacle of what my coach at the time was preaching to us to get faster. So it kinda just came full circle. What happened, Martian, to a single leg squat, he was like, what the hell is this? He's used to doing four plates on each side and killing it. But when I put one plate on one side,

he was like, bro, this is crazy. And so it kind of like sparked something with the training as to why these guys are getting so faster. You know, you had mentioned two way back when you were doing things like squatting with 225 and then doing a sprint right afterwards, which now we know is what they call that post-activation potential.

You were doing a lot of this programming. Was it a lot of it intuitive or were you learning from books and reading, you know, studies and techniques and applying it to yourself? Like how were you developing some of these strategies? So the problem I learned that I came across is why I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm squat like crazy. I could bench like crazy squat like crazy, But I wasn't getting faster. And, you know, there's all these terms, like you've got to work on your fast twitch or you've got to work on, you know, the eccentric part of the lift, you've got to work on all these, there's all these

different things that come into play. And what I learned that worked for me and worked for all my clients through trial and error, we would do a, I would, I would schedule the whole program to where we just do double leg squats. In the next year, I would say, you know what, let's just focus for three to six weeks on all single leg foundation work. Superstead that with some type of single leg box or some type of banded explosive exercise. And the results were crazy. And this is just you coming up with this?

Yeah. Because you're up with this? Yeah. Cause you're trying to out. Wow. I was just figuring it out. And this is before all like the technology that's out now. This is like 2006, 2007. So I'm just like, okay, let me bench. And then let me throw a medicine ball chest press against the wall.

Right. I'm a push and pull, but I'm a pull with an explosive exercise. Or I'm gonna push with some type of like strength. And it was just the combination of the two, it was crazy. And people in the gym are looking like, I've never seen that. You know, the closest thing to it may have been like,

a hand-kling into like a bench. And that's probably like, you know, the triple extension exercise that most people are very familiar with. But they don't know why they're doing it together. Right, right. But when you do a bench press and then I get a guy like Anthony Barr, who's a linebacker, I get him benched in 225 for six reps

and I immediately get him off and get him on the wall with a 30 pound med ball. He's now applying the strength into something a little bit more sports-specific. Well, it's fascinating that this is intuitive to you because, I mean, this is what studies show to be the effective way to train and it's much more accepted now, but 10, 15 years ago.

It was a hard of. It was, yeah, nobody was really doing that, which is insane. You talk about getting out, working two or three jobs, training people, studying these things, applying, you know, what you're learning to the next time you train someone. Incredible work ethic, drive, and hustle. Where's that come from? I had my daughter when I was 22, 23 years old, and she would sit and watch me on the computer,

and most babies are crying, you know, they're impatient, she'd just watch, and then I'd get up and do some drills or there, and I'd pretty much, you know, I'd bring it to the gym with me, she'd sit there, watch me do ladder drills, and then when the client leaves, she's doing the drill. And I would bet new clients all the time,

it's like, bad, I bet my daughter could do this better than you. It's like doing the same thing, same long, same leg, bro. Come on, man. And they're like, what, your daughter's like four. And I'm like, yeah, watch. But she's just like me. She's just very, she sees something,

she knows how to do it. And that was what sparked it aside from just the fact that I wanted to create something that I think people wanted to do. And it's been working. It's been working like crazy. And I don't even think it's honestly the exercise. Like you can go anywhere and do some squats,

you can do anywhere. I have a different way of developing relationships and like we talked earlier, it's just being straight up, you know, honest to God truth, like, and me and Odell joke about this all the time. The first time I got on the phone with him, I, the first thing I say was, no one cares about that catch last year.

You know, no one cares what you do. Old dudes, guy. Yeah. I was, guy. Yeah. I was being serious. He looked at me. I said, I said, you come, let's get a workout in. Let's get better next year. And every year, I strive to do that with him.

And he pulled up. I was training about like 15 guys at the time. And I honestly think he was going to show up. I thought he was like, whatever, like whatever this kid is like talking mess. And he pulls up on a hoverboard, you know, at the front of the door, and there's like 10 guys traded with me, and another five guys getting ready, warm up.

And they heard me talking mess on the phone, because it was FaceDot. And I was like, come on down to the gym, man, you ain't gonna come, that catch no me, nothing. And they're like, what are you talking to? I'm in O'Dell back in junior, they're like, what? And he pulls up. And the first thing he says is, who's Jamal?

And I turn and like stat next to a guy, and I'm pointing at somebody else. And I'm like, he ain't fucking beat me up. And everybody pointed at me. And I was like, man, yeah, I'm Jamal. Hold me back. Come on, please, hold me back. And I said, do you want to jump in the group? And he was like, man, yeah, I'm tomorrow. I told me back. Come on, please, hold me back. And I said, do you want to jump in the group?

And he was like, nah, I'll wait. I'll wait. I'll start warming up over here. I'll wait. I was like, cool. I got about like 10 more minutes. Everybody in jim's it. It was like high school.

You about to get it. And I was like, here we go. So, I just, I watch a lot of film on guys, even if I don't trade them. I got a program for JJ White, I'll never even work with him. But, I had in my mind what I wanted to do with him. And he warmed up, he got ready, and it was almost like weird because everybody was watching like, what's gonna happen? We worked out and shook his hand, he was like, what you wanna do? And I was like, you wanna come back tomorrow? He's like, I'll be here tomorrow.

And that started a whole four or five year relationship. Can you talk about that? That, like, you're just watching film and all that. Like, what do you see? What do you see as far as like any weaknesses or anything that you're like, oh, I can really help them with this. So I look at it like the Matrix Code.

Okay. So my staff, I have, I prepped them like crazy, right? So we'll sit down and watch YouTube videos or watch film. And I say, what do you see from here? What can you, what workout can you create off of this wide receiver doing X, Y, and Z? And you know, typically they'll be like,

oh, I have them squat or I have them like sled push. I'm like, no, let's break down every specific movement from literally walking up to the line of scrimmage, to catching a touchdown, to walking back to the to the to the sideline. Every detail, the release, okay, let's work on hip flexor, let's work on correcting the hitch, let's work on the second step off the top of the release where he's going to make a pivot or a jab step. Let's work on the catch. What is he going to do after the catch? Let's put a band around his arm and have a run on the box. Like I break it down. Yeah, I love it because I being I mean I used to be in defense and you can always see the tells right?

The brides are coming up to the line like you know whether they're heavy on the left side heavy on the right side Like where they're going with their arm placement is, how heavy their fingers are in their stance, all that stuff. You're applying that now to the actual training. I could create a workout of one rep or one down or a 10 second of NBA game just off the movement alone. Like, okay, if I have a basketball player and his lateral step is really weak, all right, let's work on a lateral lunge and explode with an ice skater drill that I use.

You know, it's just applying what I see and kind of just incorporating in the workout. What were some of the, when you started working with these high level, like elite athletes, because we're talking about people like who can perform at the highest levels. Did you have some misconceptions when you first started working with them? Was your mind blown in any way? Because I know for me when I've worked with a few high level athletes, I thought, oh, it's high level athlete, their bodies are super balanced, they could do everything. And then I do certain movements like, whoa, I can't believe that this person, they're just really good at what they do.

Did you ever run into anything like that? Yeah, I think it was a, I guess you could say ignorance or a misconception. I came into it already being friends with these guys and not understanding what they did with the team. And so that's the problem with a lot of new younger trainers is they feel like they have to overtrain these guys. When it's actually more of a maintenance thing, I tell my veteran guys all the time, all my guys are nine years, 10 years. They're not trying to power cling the world. They're not trying, and another thing,

it's not about being the fastest guy anymore, it's about maintaining the speed. You know, it's very hard to get a guy who's 23, 24 years old, any faster, let's be realistic. Well, what you can do is get them a little bit more explosive. You can create more efficient. Yes, you can create more power, you know, but what I experienced like from a, I'll go back to it, just being a little bit ignorant about the training process was

programming them as opposed to training a guy at a UCLA or USC is complete opposite. Really? Complete opposite. Explain, explain. So, for instance, I have a couple guys right now from USC, UCLA that are, you know, they just got done with their pro day in combines. And for six to eight weeks, we taxed them, you know, heavy hills, a lot of speed work,

you know, making sure they could jump over, not just like overtraining them, but pushing them to at least the limit prior to like peak performance. The guys coming in from the NFL can't do that. You can't do that. You gotta remember, these guys have been training and playing football a longer time. So their bodies are already injured. The main thing I do is set them up with a PT physical therapist and chiropractor. Because if I can eliminate a lot of the the postseason injuries first, I can get way more productivity out of them. I don't necessarily have

to squat them so heavy. I can like I say go back to my functional movements. Single leg box jumps, single leg squats, you know, TRX, you know, a lot of medicine ball work. More so, this is more and more maintenance work as opposed to just, you know, dead lift them, dead lift them the shit out of them. You know, it's just taxing for them. They're lower backs that are messed up already. You know, a lot of guys don't even back squat.

A lot of the trainers even know, I can't back squat this guy's coming off, you know, slip disc or, you know, even if ankle injuries, as you know, like if you have a pull hamstring, it comes from the calf or the glute. So you can't do too much stuff that'll aggravate that. So you have to work around the injury. It's just hard to do without the knowledge. Oh, this is true wisdom coming out right now. Now, what are some of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to training for athletic performance and explosiveness?

Like, I guess first off, maybe a better question would be, what are the attributes that you would need for to be excellent at sports in particular football because that seems to be what you're known for? And then number two, what are some of the misconceptions about training where people think, oh, this is what I need to do to get better at these sports. Maybe they're doing the wrong exercises or whatever.

I think it's more so if I'm talking from a trainer's perspective, creating phases. A lot of people skip the foundation phase, which is building a base, building their conditioning. My guys come back from OTAs, and the last thing we do is run routes. You don't need that right now, especially going back, they're going into conditioning and weightlifting. So, what a lot of trainers do, and I know you guys have seen this numerous amount of times, is get them on the field, do as much cone work, speed work, you know, one on ones and then tax them in their way room.

No, no, you really just need to work on the basics, the foundation, getting a strong base, you know what I mean? Taking a lot of that high intensity training and creating like, I mean, honestly, I would say in layman's terms, higher reps, lighter weight. You know what I mean? Closer to the end of the season, heavier weight, I mean, closer to the peak of the season, heavier weight,

heavier weight, lower reps. And just to make it as easy as possible for somebody who doesn't understand the concept, get the base going, get them stronger. Like I had a guy start up with me, right through the Super Bowl. And you know, he was, you know, fairly out of shape. Conditioned with bad, just got back from Jamaica.

You know, a couple more trips to Canco, no big deal. And he was terrible. He was lifting one plate on each side. So what we did, we just increased the reps to 12 to 15. You know what I mean? And from, instead of going from six exercises of power, we did 12, nine to 12 exercises. But we just added a lot more reps.

By the time he left last week, he was pushing up to 275. He was running 10 hills. Like it was nothing. And under five minutes, when he came in, he was running in 10. You know what I mean? And it's just creating that base, like it was nothing in under five minutes, three minutes, when he came in, he was running in 10. You know what I mean? And it's just creating that base, monitoring it, and seeing what they can do and progress.

What's more difficult to work with, you mentioned like with college football, and then trying to then, you know, prove themselves and go through the combine and get into the league, you know, that presents its own challenges as far as like, you know, potentially overtrain or really trying to prove themselves versus somebody that's in the league

that maybe has an ego already established and maybe won't work or do what you asked of them. Man, that's a good question. Wow, and I wanna say something that kind of goes off that. I have a great opportunity with my program to pair college athletes with current NFL athletes. That's cool. That's really cool.

And there's certain times of the year where you can't do that because of NCAA rules, but in the transition period when they're done with school, they have the opportunity to, you know, all my receivers get a chance to at least beat in the room with O'Dell. That's dope. You know, my safeies get to train with Joe Hayden in the morning. That's sick.

And the best part about Joe Hayden is, he's an early guy. He's been in the league nine, ten years. He's like, well, I like to get in a six, seven in the morning, get out. All my college guys are like, one and after noon, 4 p.m. and I'm like, this is the mentality you have to have. If you want to be in the league this long

and they get a chance to see his mannerisms. We'll go to the field at seven, we'll do all the positional work. I have one of my other coaches working specifically with the college kids, but I'll do a combination of stuff where they get a chance to work with them and see the intensity when he's learning how when he's using

High intensity to do drills and when he's like comment Com when he's calm down between exercises and they don't understand that because with college is go go go go go go go always go They don't understand you can take a break, you know learn your body know your body and We preach that a lot we get in the weight room. They're looking at what Joe is doing. They're understanding like, wow, Jamal's been working with you for like five years. I get it. You know, it's a different type of training. It's not always like I need to be the best guy in the room. And Joe's, Joe's speaking knowledge, he's talking to him about what's on the board. Some of these guys coaches in college are now on the

league. So they're actually training with these guys who are like, oh, I know your coach, he's my coach now. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's great. And it's a great opportunity for all my linebackers to work with. I work with literally the linebacker core for the Vikings,

Anthony Bar, Eric Kendrick, Eric Wilson, a couple other guys. And they get to see, not only these guys are 200 something pounds and they're moving like DBs and receivers and that's that's a bonus but the program is that you get to be as big as you are and move however you want. But I think that that is like the best part of my program is that the younger generation from high school which is my staff member who was in high school training in the same room with Marsha Lynch, he's now my assistant. And he's now taken over the high school college program. That's cool.

And I like that. You know, it doesn't matter how many degrees, how many master's degrees, how many training certificates you have, he knows my tempo. He knows what I want. He knows after work, he's got to get on the computer for six hours and do some more research and try to recruit. You can't teach that. You can't teach that with a certain. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, and a big, tell me if this is a big misconception that the the difference between a

very very high level, you know, division one college athlete and a pro, your average pro is just natural talent versus the work ethic. Like which one plays the biggest role, would you say? Work ethic, most definitely. Definitely work ethic and consistency. Top elite level professional athlete may not train as much as like a divisional one college kid or somebody, but when they're training, they understand why and what needs to be done. A lot of my guys don't understand when internal or external rotation means,

but they know when they're doing drills and they're doing squats, my left leg keeps going in. College kids and other guys don't really pay attention to that. They just go. They just go. So when I'm saying, all right, we need to revert back to at least some more, some exercise that will focus on that unilateral strength. They get it. Other guys don't pay attention to that. I tell them all the time, we need to work on certain

drills and he's like, you're right. This is something I want to work on. Let's incorporate that because now I know my my my left hip is not firing. So let's add two or three more reps as opposed to somebody who's like, let's incorporate that, because now I know my left hip is not firing. So let's add two or three more reps as opposed to somebody who's like, let's just go through the drills. They've got a lot of good body awareness. Yeah, amazing. Now, one of the things about athletes that I learned a while ago,

that blew me away was that they're not perfectly balanced, but they're so good at moving the way that they do, that they've developed their own, compensatory patterns. They've developed these patterns that are very efficient and good at moving the way that they do, that they've developed their own, you know, compensatory patterns. They've developed these patterns that are very efficient and good at. And I learned a long time ago that if I try to correct everything, I may mess up their, how good they are at moving in a particular way. Do you, do you, do you find that as well?

Where you see these athletes, like, how far do you go at trying to make them move perfectly without messing up the fact that they've been moving a particular way for 10 years and they're good at it? I have that debate with trainers all the time because the generation now is my way or the highway. And I come from a world where if Tom Brady wants to do it this way, we're going to let him do it this way, but I'm going to create some alternatives. I'm going to give him some options to see how it feels to do it this way, but I'm gonna create some alternatives. I'm gonna give him some options To see how it feels to do it x, y and z

It's that's a very long man. I go through that every day because my younger trainers are not Training is more than just teaching them how to be better training that training is is teaching them how to use different ways to do things, I believe. And with what you just said about, you know, the pattern that they're using is the way they want to do it forever, I agree. I strongly agree. But if I can teach them to do something that might be more from an injury prevention side, come from that angle, then they kind of understand why I want them to do it this way So you're gonna work with it big and influence it along the way correct Because the second you start to get into a world where you can't let them do what they want They be like they're like cool. I don't want to try him here no more or you know and at the end of the day

It's like okay, I don't want to lose a client, but it's saying, I don't want you to get hurt in the game. So it's like, where do you draw the line? Yeah, it sounds to me like what you're saying is, if you want to maximize your performance at that level, it's less about pushing and squeezing out more performance and more about reducing time on the bench, reducing injury, improving efficiency, just so you're more consistent of a performer. Correct.

Is that accurate? Correct. When the help of my physical therapy team, my sports rehab team, they help a lot with that because I'll go to them before I even go to the athlete. I'll be like, I just can't get him to move the way I want him to. And they're usually more receptive when a doctor comes in and tells them, dude, you need to start doing stuff like this. How did that all come about?

Like when did you start incorporating, you know, physical therapists and people in your programming? Well, I wanted to stop outsourcing, you know, like Martian or anybody would come in and be like, the first thing guys do at that level is they say, I gotta go see my PT first. So I was like, all right, well, common sense. Let me just get a PT with me. That way, I don't have to wait 30 more minutes for you to get here. You know what

I mean? So that was how it started, but then I started doing more research and looking at like exos and, you know, top facilities. And they all have a PT or a chiropractor or somebody there to work with the guys. And I'm like, wow, this is kind of lucrative actually. So now let me start incorporating the PT side. So when the guys come in the program for OTAs or NFL training camp prep, first thing they do is go see my doc. They go see the doc 20, 30 minutes.

They come work with me, hour, hour and a half, then they go right back to the doc. And it's just like a great assembly line. And the guys like that because it's like when they go to work, they go see the dock or they go see the training room, go to workouts, go see the training room and they go home. It keeps them on a like, oh, there's Jamal's legit. Right, right. You know, you're known for training these high-level professional athletes, but you train a lot

of young athletes, a lot of students, high school students and college students and maybe even younger, what's the big difference in the training? In talking to the young athlete right now, I'm sure we have some high school and college students listening right now, what are some things that they can do to improve their performance, some basic things that they can do with their own workout programming? So what we usually have our college kids do is we, after an assessment, which we do with all our clients, is we kind of just figure out what their goal is. What are you trying to accomplish with this?

Because a lot of these kids play receiver into playing DB. So that's, you've been training a kid for four years and all of a sudden now you've been playing DB, safety or something. I'm like, come on, man. You just messed up my whole for your program with it. But it's cool though, and what we try to, what we try to get them to do and understand is like, you gotta have some speed.

Speed is probably one of the most important parts of me as a trainer, like the athlete, what I feel, coaches want is speed, because you could take an athlete who's terrible at doing everything, but he could run a four to. Oh, we're going to take him. We're going to figure out somewhere to put him. Special team, somewhere, you know.

So speed, first and foremost, like, if I didn't know anything about training or anything about getting faster, the first thing I would say is, I'm going to do something to make it harder for me to get to A to B. And that's either pulling a sled, running up a hill, or running on sand. Those are the top three things.

It's just knowing how much to do with it. I was gonna ask you all about that speed training and specifically because there's a lot of people out there selling products and ideas that are questionable. And also, you know, like, so if you could kind of go down the list of maybe like a hierarchy of ones that you actually use in your training versus what's out there, like, you know, running in a pool versus like,

running with a parachute and all that kind of stuff. So, but I guess you could say my top product, I guess would be the sled, because I could do so much with a sled, you know, we can get leaner and lateral speed moment where I can do so much with a slit, you know, we can get leaner and lateral speed movement where I can do shuffles, karaoke's, forward running up obviously, but you know with my, my DBS and my defensive players, I can get them into a back pedal, I can get them into a turn, I can get them into a lot of different scenarios where they just feel

like they got that monkey on their back, you know, where it's just unbearable or it's just a little bit heavier because it's, it's also interesting to see how people are using it and social media does a great job, but it also is a bad job because it doesn't show the actual full workout. Like you show me, I can post me pulling sleds, but it's not showing the actual workout. Like I might have my guys do two sled pulls for 40 yards and then I'll have them take it immediately, immediately off and do a 15 yard sprint without the sled. It's the combination of the two, you know what I mean? And they only post the sled.

They only post the sled. Right, right, right. So you don't really know what the guys are doing, you know, and I might have a single leg bounding for 40 yards. Just complete cycle, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then have them, you know, ladder aside show, which is to work on the adductors and abductors. So it's like, it's the sled is one of my number one tools, but at the same time, like the beach is like the the seller

of the JLT program. It's like when guys come in and a big time of the year for me is SB week. So I get a lot of guys who I normally don't get the chairs to work with, but they're in town for the SB's. So they're like, I need to go to that JOT guy. And it's like going to Red Lobster. You don't get a burger at Red Lobster. You get a lobster. You know what I mean? So they come and they were like, I want to get that beach workout. All right, cool. So we'll usually do the whole week, just beach. That way it's a lot of just, I don't know if you guys remember that last two hours, get everywhere. Right. And it's only two miles away I don't know if you guys are familiar with L.A. It's two hours, get everywhere. Right, yeah.

And it's only two miles away. So we'll just stay at the beach all week. I have a coach at the gym if they want it. They don't have enough time. But we'll get them on that sand and they're like, do I've never done half of this stuff? And it's not always about just running as fast as you can. A lot of it is learning how to control the body.

Being able to get up to top in, stop, and get back to top in is what a lot of my is learning how to control the body. Being able to get up to top in, stop, and get back to top in is what a lot of my clients have a problem with. So I incorporate that in the beach. And what the sand does is it doesn't let you slow down. It doesn't let you speed up like you want. So when we take that Friday beach workout and then we let them rest over the weekend

and we bring them back on Monday, they're like, dude, I got so much control. It's ridiculous. Yeah, I didn't. how do you coach that transition? Because I know that was always a thing where, like you mentioned, like it is a struggle for athletes to really be able to break down properly and get that like nice cut.

It's learning their body, first and foremost, learning. I literally, as soon as a guy called, I get a text like my phone ring all day. I get a text from an agent or a player. Heard about you, wanna come check you out. All right, what's your first and last name? It might be somebody from the Giants. They'll call me, I look at all the film I can,

look at college film, up into game film. So that way when they come in, I have a knowledge of, like all right, week three, this is what you did as opposed to when you played against Utah State. And I kinda just try to get the dynamics of that first. And I say, what is, I see 17 problems. I don't know how many you see, but I see at least 17 that I think I can help out with.

Stopping and going typically is usually one of them, you know. What do you want to work on? It's like, well, I'm not pushing off my left foot to go this way that way. All right, let's get on the sand. Let's do it on the sand. Let's get four weeks on the sand. And we'll correct it. And then when they get on the, I don't even let them touch the field sometimes. If it's that serious of a problem,

I won't even let them get on the field, depending on the time of the year. Let me clarify that. And then we'll get on the field and they're like, oh, this is ridiculous. I can push off. And sometimes they're pushing off to the point where it's like, now they have to learn how to control

how fast they're going off to push. It's like, I have a drill that I do where we'll spread five yards in the sand and stop. And we'll do that for about, maybe five or six reps. You know, we'll continuously do that for just the whole day in between a couple of tennis ball throws and stuff. So is it just, okay, I'm just trying to like wrap my brain around like the sand portion of it.

Is it really like the effectiveness of it that they understand their movement that much more because it's like unstable? They have no control over their body. Yeah. Like training an earthquake. Okay. You got to, you have to focus more on it. I just read a study that tried to figure out how to maximize somebody's rebound performance like if you land and you're able to explode again.

And most trainers, myself included for a long time, focused on the explosive part. But what they found in the study was that the athletes who focused on the land was, were able to explode more. It was all about being able to land effectively and you're agreeing with me so this is obviously you're you're finding this to be quite true. That's the first test I do I do an assessment and incorporating an assessment I don't care how high you jump I want to see how you land. Two feet one foot lateral land on one foot I want to see exactly how you

land because that's gonna let me know what I can do with you after the landing. One foot, lateral land on one foot, I want to see exactly how you land because that's going to let me know what I can do with you after the landing. Are you going to be able to get full extension? Are you going to be able to push? Are you going to be able to jump back up? From that movement, one moving alone, I can tell exactly when your direction of your knee goes,

how you, if the foot is in front or in back when you land, from there, that's amazing as you said that. Yeah, no, the study just showed it, and it makes sense that the weakest link in the whole chain of movements there wouldn't be the explosive aspect. It would be that where you position yourself so that you can explode, which makes perfect sense.

Like it's like trying to push someone over, but you're standing on a skateboard, you ain't gonna be able to maximize your force, but if you have a good base, now you can generate a lot of force, so it makes absolute perfect sense. One thing that all my receivers, DBs do, when they're catching a ball and an interception

or in stride, they're typically coming down on one leg. Unless it's a comeback route, then you're on two. But how am I gonna train that movement, catching landing and going? So that's another reason why I do that test because you can see all day how, okay, you can jump high. Cool. But what are you going to do off the jump? Yeah.

What are some of the most important exercises that young athletes can do? And then what are some of the most important exercises that more advanced athletes should be able to do? For a younger athletes, I would just say a lot of core work. Definitely a lot of strong core aside from being, you know, having vision is one of the key things I think also for younger athletes.

Their awareness level is not where it's at. So working on the core, working on their vision, awareness, working on doing things where they have to react. And that's kind of like where the tennis ball drove came into play. And I wanted to develop these guys a little bit faster because they just weren't able to move the way I wanted to when I watched them in the games. There's some things that I say, well, you could have went right by that dude But they're just so hesitant or they don't have the the experience level yet to understand Oh, I need to push left to come back right, you know, they're trying to do way too much all these Shaking bake razzle dazzy you just need to push off one time to go around this guy

As opposed to like you said the professional athlete the things that I feel like professional athletes is conditioning age plays a big role in the longevity of clients It's it's universal like you could be the top athlete in the world But you're gonna get tired a lot faster than the guy coming in who's trying to take your spot. Yeah father time Oh, it gets everybody everybody It gets me. I'm like, I'm beat up now. Like my younger trainer is a trainer 14 hour. I was like, I'm gonna do that in my sleep. I gotta take a nap now.

You've been around so many incredible athletes. Are you still impressed? Are you still getting impressed? Every day. Every day. You gotta share some stuff. Cause this is a big sports fan I, and we would talk about the bars the Hayden's the

Odell Beckham's the all these athletes at March on liches that you've had a chance to train and Speculate who's like what inside the gym or who's like what when they train like what what what has been impressive about all those guys So I have a drill called a crossing the moat. I guess you can call it, it's like we put tape, it's five yards apart. And we have a drill where we'll go into like a back squat or dumbbell squat, and then I'll have them jump over the moat to get to the next exercise. So I have a section, the gym section, often three areas.

And it's not that easy, it's about six yards. I mean, six feet away. So after like your third time coming around, you're like dead. You know, you just squatted maybe 70, 80 pounds. And Adele walks in the gym and didn't even know what was going on. Just walked to get to walk through to get to where he wanted to put his bag down. Jumped over it. Yeah, that was the... Just jumped over the whole thing like a game. And I'm like, what the hell? Like, and we're trying to do this.

Like, the guy, I'm trying to make my guys do it. And they're like, bro, this is, I don't even want to try anymore. That's just getting pretty leaky. Yeah, just put your stuff and go home. And then he did it single leg. Oh, shit. And he's like, and that's what I started

getting in my competition mode. Like, oh, I could do, I was doing this in high school. So we go back and forth, we got it to like eight nine feet. Single and double leg jumps. Lateral jumps, just playing around. Wow. There's a drill I have my kids do when we're preparing for the vert jump for combat.

And we'll set the bar up pretty high. Maybe like, I level like six feet. And Evan Ingram walks in, because he's in the transition, you know, the guys get to see him coming in, warming up and they're like, oh, Evan Ingram's coming in, he's about to train with your ball.

Evan walks in, barely walks under it. Like, that's how high it was. He walks under it to go to put his bag down. We're jumping over it, struggling. Evan says, what do y'all do it? Jump's over it. Nothing. No warm up.

Just comes in, jumps over it. I'm like, bro, what the hell? Say the thing when Marxianne's come in, he'd be like, all right, I gotta go. I gotta go do this thing with Skittles. Just put some weight on. Let me lift it. I said, put some weight on.

He's even warm up. He said, bro, just put the weight on, Ma, come on, you know me. I said put some weight on you warm up bro Just put the weight on wall come on you know me. I said man This is probably the worst thing I've ever said out loud But he's like bro just put four plates on no warm up. I'm gonna do some a skips and some legs wings I say March on bro. I can't how you do this Goes in there and all the kids are just when he walks in the gym. It just stops Everybody's what is he gonna do? He just comes in, puts the bar on, squats it, benches it and leaves.

And I'll be like, man, I'm like, what am I programming you for? What is the point, bro? Why am I here? And these guys never cease to amaze. They do it all the time. They do it all the time. It's a whole new, it's a whole different level of human. And the first time I saw a pro athlete run and move,

I just, I was in shock. I couldn't believe that people moved like that. It didn't make any sense to me. Something you said earlier about your younger athletes and increasing their body awareness, it reminds me of a question that we get often on the show and something that I experienced as a kid that we refer to

as old man strength. This is somewhere. You know, you've got a guy who's 45, 50 years old, fit or whatever and you're 18, 19, 20 and you're all jacked up because you're testosterone's high and you got all spiss and vinegar. And this old guy, you know, you can out bench him out dead, lift him out squat. But then you go like, I was a good shaker. I did wrestling.

I did judo. I did juditsu, and I would grapple with these guys, and they would just get ahold of me and just crush me. And I realized, and I learned why later, I couldn't figure out like, what is this old man's thing? So weird. Later on, I realized, and then through my own process

of if I gained a lot of weight or lost a lot of weight, I just didn't have control over my body, and I realized, oh, that 50-year-old dude, he's been in his body for a long time. He just knows how to use it. And when you're talking about sports at this high level of, especially any sport, but especially the higher level competition,

technique is extremely important and how you move. And so body awareness is everything. You can take a kid, make him super strong. He's got no body awareness. He's worthless on the field. You can take a kid, make him super strong. He's got no body awareness. He's worthless on the field. You take that same kid, maybe not even make him stronger, just make him super aware, and they're gonna be phenomenal on the field.

They're watching them in the game after one season and teaching them different vision training drills, learning how to use outside push as opposed to inside push, learning how to stop on a dime is just game changer for a high school college athlete. Because they, you gotta remember, there's more guys who don't know how to do it than they are they do. And in a field, I would say at least more than half

are kind of aware, you know what I mean? Maybe they don't have to use their body yet, the right way, but they're aware of what they need to do from an experience level. That's why they're there. That's exactly why they're there. But college kids, there's no coaches out here

teaching them how to slow down and understand their body. They're teaching about to get faster, bigger, stronger. That's always been a high school, bigger, faster, stronger. Okay, what about be more aware, learn how to stop, push left, push right. You know, catch a ball behind your head sometimes, like not saying that's a drill, but just know where your body is in placement

to make a maneuver to do that. And there's no, like, there's nobody really doing that. And especially because, I'll be honest with you, because high school athletes are not gonna pay as much as a professional athlete. With a professional athlete, I could do one-on-ones all day with two people and make what I could make with 40 kids.

With 40 kids, it's a cheaper, they're paying a lot less so you have to put them in groups. Right, and that's harder to do that. Exactly, and you can't teach every kid 10 kids in one group, you can't teach every kid how to do specific things because it takes time away from the whole workout. So it's like you make 125 bucks for 10 kids or you make 4,000 for one hour for one guy.

It's, you kind of like get into that world. So that's why I have competitive prices, but I also don't want to take away from my trainers, you know, paying their bills. But they also understand who I'm training, who I'm working with, and what they're gonna get. Yeah, and the irony of this all too, is that more body awareness dramatically reduces injury.

Correct. It's got to be the most important factor, I would imagine. Correct. And that's another thing. High school athletes don't get hurt like that unless they, it's like hot or cold, they break their arm. You'll never see a high school kid so I got tennis elbow.

You know what I mean? You'll never hear that. That comes later. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. You just don't hear, it's always ACL. You never hear about, oh my knees hurting. You never hear high school kids talking about minor injuries.

It's hot or cold. So if I can also incorporate injury prevention, because when they get to college, they're messed up. Half my guys are messed up because they just didn't take care of their body. It's imagine LeBron at 14, you know what I mean? His body was already developed, so people put him in positions where he could not get hurt. But if your body hasn't developed

to what you're gonna be at NFL level, and you're doing things at the NFL level, getting hit, making cuts, training as hard as you are, and you're not doing injury prevention, it's gonna happen at some point. Talk about the misconception that all professional athletes have the best trainers training them. Oh man.

Oh yeah. Good call. It's funny man. I never really talked bad on any trainer or I never really say I'm better or I have better drills. I definitely think that, and we talked about this a lot earlier, social media is like diluting who the 15 great trainers are in the United States that do this, it's diluting our brands. Because at the end of the day, these guys are paying

for a service. The majority of these trainers who are up and coming are not charging because they want to get the notoriety, the clicks, they want to have the best workout to go viral. So they're sacrificing a lot, they don't even know they're sacrificing their client's health so that they could be the Instagram trainer. And guys like myself, it's very hard to glorify a single leg block squat, you know, because we do it for three weeks before we can get to their double leg squat.

So it's not cool, but my guy, I had 26 guys getting nominated for probo. You know what I'm saying? It's cool. And that's the cool part. I have the patience. I trained O'Dell at his house in New York for two years before people even know

knew what in-season training was. The first day I got to his house, I didn't be like, oh, I'm at O'Dell's house about to train him in-season training. Because honestly, if he didn't have a good season, I'm gonna get blamed. Yeah. So I'm like, let me not put this out yet. You know what I'm saying?

Let me at least wait, but the younger generation is so quick to be like, oh, week two, why are you there week two? If you did what you're supposed to do, he should need you till week six, seven. So now you're putting your foot in your mouth. You know what I mean? My guys don't call me until by week. Like, Ma, I'm feeling great. I'm killing it.

Let's start doing some stuff after by week when I'm starting to feel like a little laxat days ago. It's getting a little colder now. So I want to start doing some stuff where I'm not pulling muscles. And even when I go to them, it's not like what we do during the season. And that's another thing.

These guys are doing what they did with these guys for training camp prep. You can't do that. They do this already Monday through Thursday. You know what I mean? And you have the opportunity to kind of assist or supplement what they're not getting to a certain extent, but without taking it to the extreme level.

And I kind of got away from the original question. Well, no, we were talking about the misconception. Yeah. I mean, some of my, I mean, I'm hanging out one time with Navarro Bowman and Cool Cat, really liked him. And we were talking about his training. Of course, I'm a trainer I wanna ask about with his workout program.

And I'm listening to him, I'm like, what the fuck? And then I come to find out that he's got like his, and this is what I've seen, I've seen this more than once besides him where they hire their buddy, their buddy who just got his certification and you want to take care of your boy. I'm now a millionaire,

my boy is going through the certification process. I want to do him a solid and he's training. I'm thinking, god damn bro, you are like, you're like the top of the food chain here in the NFL and you just got some buddy, like that's crazy. Every, every, every so often I'll get a guy like that. He'll be like, hey, can my guy come check us out? So I just look up the guy and he's like a trainer.

And I know how cool. And I love helping trainers. I love, I love exposing and helping trainers to the point that you don't understand where it's the fact where, okay, you got a guy coming in. All right, he wants to be your guy. Love it, love it, let's help him

because I'm not gonna be with you, let's help him. But you have to be aware of what he doesn't know. And who to go to, to understand, like he can't learn everything I know from 10 years of training in one-off season. Certifications, not going to teach him everything. Nutritional programs, not going to teach him what is going in your body. He's got to do years of research, knowledge, hands-on experience. And I, every guy thinks they're guys the guy. And I love that.

I love it, I love it. But be aware of what your guy knows and outsource. Odell has multiple people that help him. Marshawn had multiple people to help. I was on a team with guys like this. Are you close with some of the strength conditioning coaches of these guys' teams? Do you guys communicate or no?

In the beginning though, because I was that guy trying to learn. And they're like, dude, I've been doing this, and the strength coaches in the NFL have been around long, some guys have been in 40 years. They're giving you the stink, guys. Oh my God. At one time, I had probably eight giants coming to me

and some of them didn't go to OTAs. So that's a red flag. And this is early. Why are these guys going to him? Or I had guys on different teams, like, why are they going to this guy? And I always want strength coaches to know, I'm not trying to be better than you.

I'm not trying to show these guys something that I think you don't know how to do. I want to help. I want to make sure the team and the player get the best out of the athlete. I'm not trying to be the guy who's like, oh, he's training with me, FU. Oh, it's just like when I ran track

and play football at the same time. It's like, I would go to a guy who would same time, it's like I would go to a guy who would help me work on this and I would go to a guy that helped me work on that and they work together. You know what I'm saying? It's a get me ready for each season. Do a lot of them work with you now where you, you can see what they're doing, they see what you're doing,

you guys work together. Now that I'm getting older, I'm getting, I get the, the programs. They're more receptive now. They're like, oh, he actually is proving himself. Guys are coming back in great shape. Guys are not hurt when they come back. And that's a big, that's like a big thing. Because if I have a client and he goes and works with somebody else for something and he comes back to me, hurt, first thing I'm going to do is be like, what were you doing?

Red flag number one. So it's like, I'm getting guys in shape. They're coming back. They're having great seasons. So it's earlier in my career was hard. It was hard. And now it's like, all right, cool. Have a St. John, the program. We know he knows what he's doing. Just haven't been corporate a one b one c one. You know what I'm saying? Excellent. Excellent. So it's good. Talk about the benefits of bilateral movements versus unilateral movements and vice versa. When you're comparing the two, because there's always this debate, right? Like, oh, you know, two legs on the ground

generate more strength, more power. One leg is more functional. Like, talk about the pros and cons of each. So I always, when I first tell my guys, I say, look straight up after the assessment, after I see them do a pistol squat, and I see they can't do it. I'm like, oh, this is clear, we need to work on it.

Because I mean, if you go to a gym, you're not ever gonna do, who goes to the gym and says, you know what, I need to work on single leg. Civilian or athlete. You know what I mean? It's just not something, it's part of your regiment. So, I'm more, you know, lateral strength base. Like, it's my bread and butter, honestly,

and it's helped me get a lot of the results I've gotten. But I incorporate bilateral strength because you're not gonna know if you got stronger if you don't. So the first couple phases are definitely unilateral. Upper body and lower body, of course. And then I just incorporate the bilateral about two to three weeks prior to they leave. And I do this because, and I say this to and lower body, of course. And then I just incorporate the bilateral about two to three weeks prior to they leave.

And I do this because, and I say this to all my guys, I'm like, how often are you on one leg when you're doing things depending on what position? You know, for especially my receivers, my DBS, a lot of, if you're running, I mean, I've never seen anybody run with two feet on the ground the whole time. We're not kangaroos.

Yeah, exactly. You know, and that sort of resonates with them. They're like, okay, cool. This is why I need to do this. And then when we start doing drills, where I have to incorporate on an explosive side of things, why it's important, they're like, I get it now. Joe Hayden made a phenomenal interception,

where it looked like he jumped in the air and literally went up six more inches. And there's a drill I do where I have him jump off one leg in between every set. So he'll do maybe 20, 40 jumps in a workout. And he's like, and the first thing he did after the game, he called me, he was like, bro, we got to, and that drill is now called the Joe Hayden. So he's like, we got to do some more Joe Hayden's. You know what I mean? He didn't obviously say his name, but we gotta do the drill. And so all the high school kids and college kids and even like a lot of NFL guys, hey, when I'm gonna start doing those things, Joe was doing.

Yeah. I'm like, all right, all right. So it plays a big role, especially in my trading. I think every trainer should incorporate unilateral strength. Either it's from a lateral movement, leaner movement, any type of movement should be figuring out how to use a multi-directional base, how to use a unilateral. Everything is for me centered around single leg. Yeah, especially for sports, absolutely. I don't know very many sports where you're just standing on two legs. It doesn't make any sense.

I just saw your phone going off and it leads me to my other question. I was going to ask you, Nike was calling you. That's why. So tell me how that happened. Typical. It's been a long process. And it comes down to nothing to do with trading. I'll be honest with you.

It comes from just being consistent in understanding brands and leveraging. Every time, like, the thing now, as you can post something, I could post this, this picture, and everybody thinks the picture sponsors me. No, Nike, Nike has a unique way of doing things along with every other brand where they work with certain individuals who they feel help the brand,

facilitate the brand, expose the brand. I just happen to work with predominantly Nike athletes. And of course, every kid wants to be a Nike athlete. But the Nike thing came about from just showing my worth. Being who I am, doing more than is expected. Well, in Marchionne would donate shoes and cleats to the kids. I would then take that and be like, look, this is what we're doing with your brand.

I would reach out to the people to let them know. You know what I mean? I'd be like, look, we just gave way 40-something cleats, spark vest, training equipment. Then they'll be like, all right, cool. We'll start sending you more stuff. Me showing them that I'm using, look, we just gave away 40 something cleats, spark vest, training equipment. Then they were like, all right, cool. We'll start sending you more stuff. Me showing them that I'm using the brand, being a part of the brand, working with the athletes,

turned into them saying, yeah, let's figure out a partnership agreement. So I have a unique contract, which very few individuals have. I'm not just posting them and getting free Nike shoes. It's actually a real deal. Like I'm considered a Nike athlete. And then my company is under the JLT brand is affiliated with that.

So it's a blessing. Well, I knew it was unique because I saw your website and I know just not anybody can throw the Nike logo on their website like that. So that's how I was curious about how How this all happened, was this over years? Oh, it's over five, six years. Wow. You know, it's not they just give these contracts out to,

especially a trainer. Yeah. Like it's, like, it's very rare. In fact, most, most anyone that I know that's even affiliated with Nike is a trainer. It's like an affiliate deal. It's like a free shoes or something. Yeah, that's it. And that affiliate deal. It's like a free shoes or something. That's it.

And that was what I was on for a while. I'll be honest, I was, you know, they don't really say you can't use the name, oh, Nike Spark, I could say that I'm training for a combine or, you know, an elite 11 competition. But I'm not really at legally able to say I'm a Nike trainer and people do because they know there's so many people in the Nike brand are not going to come look for a guy with 28 followers saying he's a Nike trainer. Yeah. Um, so that's where like you get away with it. But I was, I was definitely fortunate enough to show them that look, I've been working with these guys. I've gone overseas with some of your

clients. I've done work with calves. I want to wanna show more leverage, I wanna do more for the brand. And that's with any one of my sponsors. I definitely believe in everything that I'm selling or advocating to my clients. And that's just me being me. I don't care about posting, I love posting, it's great, whatever, but I wanna show that my clients are using the product.

Right, right. Yeah, a. But I want to show that my clients are using the product. Right, right. Yeah, a huge misconception I think that people have is when somebody becomes successful and becomes known, it's always this, you know, like, oh, he came out of nowhere, overnight success. Yeah. Nine at a 10 times, or maybe 10 at a 10 times, there's years or decades of work that led up to that moment

when that person became known. And the thing about you that's impressing me the most as we're talking, obviously very knowledgeable about training. And you have this incredible intuitive talent to know how to apply training. But what impresses me the most is your work ethic and how you've applied yourself over and over again to just become better at what you do

and become more successful. Is this ever something you talk to your young students about? Your young athletes about about the work ethic? Because I feel like that place is such a huge role in anybody's success. It does, all the time because everybody has a story. And a lot of my kids, I have, I'm very fortunate, I think, to work with a lot of kids who were underprivileged. They come from a bad house, about household or broken family. They don't have somebody to relate to.

I think the beautiful part about myself is that I can relate to a kid from Beverly Hills and I can relate to a kid from West Oakland, and get them to work together. That's like the synergy, you know, and it's hard because being that consistent and understanding people is something, like I said, it's not, you can't teach that, I pride myself on the fact that these kids are interested in not only the training, but they're interested in me. And I don't ever really get a chance to really talk

about where I came from. I don't really talk too much. Like I slept in a gym for like seven months. I was sending money back home so that my daughter could go to school, but I would get up at six in the morning to train. No one knew, no one, no one, they just thought I was there first. You know what I mean? And they didn't know why I never left.

They were like, I was doing it here all the time. Yeah, I live here. You know? But yeah, but that's inside of me that lets me know, like, and also I've been exposed to a lot. I've gone overseas, I've seen people's houses that are as big as this whole block. I've been to training camps

and I've seen how things have been, how organized and things work. I've experienced corporations, small businesses that the pros and cons, I've had a chance to experience a lot. And not because corporations, small businesses, that the pros and cons. I've had a chance to experience a lot. And not because it was just like luck, because I wanted to know. And newer trainers and newer athletes try to figure out how to be the next Joe Hayden, a newer trainer trying to figure out how to be, I guess you could say me, I guess, don't have the access. So if I can do that, at least from the client perspective,

give them access and give my trainers an opportunity to go to Canada for a CFL pro day, like they're like, wow, this is crazy, I've never seen this. So that's kind of like. Yeah, you know, there's this in psychology, they talk about internal versus external locus of control, like versus external locus of control.

Like an external locus of control would be, I'm in these circumstances, they're difficult, whatever your circumstances are, and therefore I just don't have the opportunity or I'm not gonna do anything because everything's so hard around me, internal locus of control is, I identify all these difficult things around me, but I can, I have the biggest impact

on how successful I am. You have that. Everything you say so far that you've said on this podcast sounds like you're coming from this like, I'm gonna bust my ass. I don't care what the circumstances are. I'm gonna make this happen myself. Were you born with that or did you learn that at something, did something teach you that as you were growing up? My mom always taught me to treat people the way you want it to be treated. I always make sure that it's like kind of like a little bit, I guess, because they OCD, to make sure when the client walks in they got a towel and water, to make sure when I was bagging groceries that the bread was on top, to make sure when I was loading mattresses that I didn't mess somebody's house up the corner

where you, you know, everybody hits the corner with their foot, like I didn't wanna do that. It's just me understanding like, this person wouldn't want that to happen to them, so I wouldn't want it to me. And like my trainer's like, recently I've had several trainers that, you know, and there's nothing wrong with it. They love, they love keeping their body in shape.

But I'm the type of person that I'm not going to work out to the last client leaves. You know, I'm going to make sure the client comes first because if I'm tired, I'm not going to be mentally able to train them. And they know, what would you do last night? I had a beer. Oh man. You know what I mean? I just don't want wanna be that person.

I'm always gonna put the client. I'm gonna sacrifice myself, my life, my family, my well-being so that the client knows all right, Jamal cares about me. At the least, you may not have the best workout today, but at least ask me how I was doing. What did I do last night? You also do something that you haven't really touched

on this podcast, but I've heard you talk about that I think is important when you're dealing with professional athletes. And that is everybody seems to be on their jock. Everybody wants to take pictures with them. Everybody and you seem to keep it very professional. Have to. Yeah, like I, it cracks me up how much I see people taking pictures

with clients and they never trade them again. Like, that's the ultimate slap in the face. You know what I mean? And I tell clients this the first day I meet them, I say, look, if I'd never see you again, at least you could take something away from today. And I have guys call me all the time, they haven't worked with me. I still do your warm up.

Oh, I still do that band work we did. It was dope. I just got married. I live here now. You know what I mean? It's nothing to do with me personally, but I don't want them. I don't want to be the guy that people be like, oh, that's the dude who takes pictures with everybody.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I want to earn it. Now, is there part of the strategy on your Instagram? I notice you have your comments turned off. Always. Okay, so what's the point? I block out all the negativity.

Okay, that's what that is. It was a time when it affected me a lot and I fed into it. I'm not going to lie to you. It was like, oh, that's weak or that drill is terrible or oh, I can do it better. And it's just all the critics. That's crazy, yeah. I wouldn't think you'd get that much hate for that.

Oh my God. And then, you know, it's just, because I didn't realize how, like, I don't look at my clients how everybody else looks at them. I just look at them, oh, that's my guy. We get some work here. But then when you got a guy doing tennis ball drills and a trainer who has 28 followers,

and he may have worked with somebody one time, he's like, we do better tennis ball drills. Right. So that was four, bro. It's for people to just see what I was doing. Yeah. You mentioned warmups often in this conversation, and I think a lot of people don't realize the importance

of an individualized warmup or priming the body. Like how important is what you do for your warm up? It's not just getting your body warm. No, no, it's, we go through so many phases in a warm up that a civilian, like it's actually when I call them civilians, but my civilians will do a whole performance training warm up as their workouts, because that's how taxing it is.

Like from the mobility, from the activations, to the actual dynamic warm up itself, you know, that could take anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes, but it's also specific by the day, by the position, depending on what the focus is for the workout, it might be a lateral dynamic warm specific by the day, by the position, depending on what the focus is for the workout, it might be a lateral dynamic warm up for the day. It might be many bands, it might be ankle bands. Sometimes I'll take them through a full resistance band, dynamic warm up there used to, but I'll

put a resistance band on them. And just as we progress, they start being able to be able to do it, but it's always taxing at first. Are you so much in your own lane that you don't even pay attention to anybody else or there's some trainers out there or some guys that you follow or you like you think you're doing good thing? I look up to a lot of trainers. I look up to a lot of trainers.

I would like to say I'm in my own lane but that would be impossible. You know what I mean? I just don't really pay too much attention. I'm aware. I always want to know what, you can say, I guess the competition is doing. I always want to know what people who are not even in my, there's a lot of trainers that do a lot of fast feed

and con drills. I have a lot of respect for them. It's not what I do, but it's just, I want to know. What is, what is the fad right now? What is, what are guys doing? So, because I don't wanna be ignorant. You know, McDonald's knows what Burger King is doing. That don't mean they're selling the same product.

They're just, they're aware. And I never wanna be that person that's out of touch. Cause when guys ask me about, hey, can we start doing this? I'd be like, well, we can incorporate that in this face. So at least know what they're doing and when they incorporate. corporate that in this face. So at least know what they're doing and winning corporate. You have a single common pet peeve of training athletes or something

that just just, fuck, I always gotta deal with this. Same arm same like. You'd be surprised how many guys still do same arm same like when they're running. I'm like, what the hell, you've been playing sports for 40 years man, what the hell's going on? Really? That's the marchin'. Yeah, I'm like, what the hell? You've been playing sports for 40 years, man. What the hell's going on? Really? That's the marches.

Yeah, I'm like, come on, man. You must have had a long night. Yeah. And this is my, I love it and I hate it the same time. Like, I have staff now that can help me with the phone and record. I'm terrible, by the way. Like, I'll get a snap and it'll be cool or whatever.

But sometimes I just don't get the angle and they want it over and over again Sound like and that's the new thing is showing that you're working out and I want them to show what they're working out with me But I want to try So now I'm doing this yeah, yeah, but it is cool. I I I just record I tell them now straight up I said look we'll give video you I'veographers, we'll bring them in at some point, but I'm gonna record it and put the phone down, and I'll make a video later on for you that day. It's gonna be like, cool.

What are some of the current fads that you're seeing right now in training? Like the current trends that are coming out? Wow, like, I'm seeing a lot more people do a lot more beach stuff, which is cool. I don't know exactly what they're doing, but it looks great. I think it's cool that they're incorporating the beach now.

I'm seeing a lot of guys do the sand hills, actually. And I love it, but you can only do so many of those. Like, like, I could probably do three and be dead. You know what I mean? That's brutal. Oh man, I'm seeing a lot more vision training. I'm seeing guys hit the wall, lights, whatnot. There's these pads that light up now.

They're incorporating that. I like that. That's pretty cool. As you can hear, my voice is very raspy. So I can yell across a football field. So I usually call out numbers. I'm old school, man. I'm like, one, green, blue. And the guys like, they tell me all the time like I still hear your raspy eyes boys man.

So the lights are cool. I don't think they were fast enough for me. If they want to send me a pair we'll use them. We'll check them out. But that's pretty I see a lot. I see when I remember when I posted the tennis ball drill it was an epidemic. Everybody's throwing tennis balls now. Everybody, and I'm not gonna say I created it, but I've been doing it a while, and I was using like ping pong balls. And my guys were really like, man, you've been doing this, like 2005.

I'm like, yeah, it's cool, the guys are throwing it. And this is my pet peeve with the tennis ball. The trainer is not working as hard as the athlete. I kill myself. Like me and O'Dell might get 75 throws in, or a good crazy 20. These guys are like,

today's the cool, there's just whatever. I'm trying to go crazy. I want them to get fucked up. You know, and if you're working hard enough, you gotta work twice as hard to see where the ball is. That takes a lot of training. These guys are like, whatever. They're just doing it for the gram.

Do you ever watch what other athletes are doing for other sports and see if there's any crossover to like like the, I feel like the ping pong ball and the tennis ball. I feel like boxers have been doing kind of off the wall. Yeah, stuff like that. I think it off their head. Do you ever look at stuff like other sports and be like, Oh, I think this might work for my I do. I do a lot. And because like I and this is another I hate getting box into the NFL world or the football world. Like I train functional movement and it's universal. So I like pick up a lot of rugby drills. I look at like a lot of soccer drills

because it applies for certain positions. And I cross it over. I was working with a guy who plays soccer. And the first thing he was like, I want to do the tennis ball drills, but I don't use my hands. And I was like, clearly. I was like, but let's figure out another way. So I incorporated a way to do some stuff with him where he's moving without tennis balls, but he wasn't catching them. You know, he was doing like a multi-directional drill and I was able to like throw some stuff where he could like dodge. But he was like, dude, I love this training.

It's just like, I don't wanna get bulky and that's the misconception with me. It's like, I don't wanna be as big as Anthony Barr. I wanna be, I wanna move. Crazy part about it is Anthony Barr can move better than a lot of guys. You know what I mean? And he I want to move. Crazy part about it is Anthony Barker can move better than a lot of guys. You know what I mean? And he's twice the size.

But that's always been like with my NBA guys. They're like, dude, I just want to shoot and come get it lifted. And then when I started incorporating a lot of like movement like they're still used to playing basketball. Tennis, all my tennis players, play tennis. All my track people, run track. Football is the only sport where they actually, I feel like train, sports specific, performance-wise,

to get ready for football. Everybody else does their sport over and over again without with minimal performance training. Let me put it like that. So when I'm able to get a guy who doesn't play football and they're like, what the hell? How did you come up with this? Yeah. I had a surfer while back her name was a Lana Blanchard. And I put her in some drills where she was working on a boastsuball, Eric's pads, and doing some weights where she's always got to use ankle mobility and strength. She's like, I've never done this. I'm like, yeah, this is functional movement. This is training.

This is getting you ready to surf. We're not surfing to surf, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have a favorite success story of like one of your pro athletes that you improved over season or over a course of seasons? Do you have a favorite one? It's hot. I would get killed if I gave you that answer.

Yeah. I don't really have a favorite favorite. You have a favorite kid? I don't have a favorite kid. I don't have a favorite kid. I have favorite. I just have a lot of guys that I really look up to and I like and I respect.

Yeah. And who's the dog? Who's the dog of everybody? Like there's gotta be guy that's just, you just like, goddamn anything I throw at this guy, he's a beast. It was a guy who wasn't a professional athlete. He was just a workhorse.

He just came in, lifted everything and left. He was just a workhorse, special teams guy. He never really got his shot. I don't wanna give his name. He never really just got the opportunity to show that he was really. That's got a pain you to see that hurt to know that behind the scenes. No one his heart, his effort, his ability. It hurts. It's because he he was a work horse, but you know, at the end of the day, you got to remember like sometimes being a work horse in a gym doesn't apply on the field.

You know, but he actually played really well and just just didn't pan out for him. Now often do you think that happens? Is this something that happens a lot where a guy is just it could have been, but just because the it didn't line up, you were just happened to be behind Odell Beckham and he's one of the greatest ever and just because he's so great, you don't get your opportunity. It happens every day, bro. Like I'm talking about from college kids. I see guys come in the league,

pulling up and porches one year, and then the next year they're like, I gotta sell my porch, because I don't know the situation right now, because of an injury, or just a trade, or somebody got brought in. You know, it's a scary feeling when you're always on the bubble and

I deal with on the bubble guys more than I'd like to you know what I mean I love working with them. They they got heart, you know, they post motivational quotes every day on their Instagram You know what I mean? And I love them the death But it's just like damn I want these dudes to succeed so much and get an opportunity to help their families and You know and I always and I think that's the part where I'd be like look man It's always a place for here at JLT You know when you get done playing or you can't figure it out. I love to help you and I myself now I like I've gotten an agent like it's unheard of I've never even think a trainer could have an agent and I have an agent who's helping me

learn how to leverage brands and talk to different companies and sell myself without being like the guy that I don't want to be. More so just from a, I'd rather sell the company than sell myself, honestly. And guys in the NFL or professional sports players don't understand how to do that. They just think, I got to catch a touchdown every game so I can get a Nike deal or a headphone

deal or a shoe deal. You can actually get a car company to be invested in you because you play football. There's not to be going to play professional sports. So to have Joe Schmo say he drives X, Y and Z is great for them. And this could help your family on the back of you. And people don't know that. Yeah, so you talked to them about how to invest and be, you know, because sometimes the lifespan of an athlete so short and being able to, you know, invest that set themselves

up for life. It's amazing what a candy bar can do for your family. You know, it's amazing what a shoelace is once the end like there's so much opportunity out here for everyone. Like I had no clue. Honestly, I had no clue that people wanted to be a part of what I'm doing. You know, I'm working with 20, 30, 40 guys.

And I didn't realize that utilizing myself to reach these guys, I didn't realize how hard it was to get to these guys because I, I'm just accessible to them. But when somebody who's not accessible to them can get to them through me, I think it's a great opportunity and vice versa for the athlete, you know. I guarantee you right now we have trainers listening who are like I want to work for Jamal right? What's that opportunity? Yeah, what is that process look? Has someone become a trainer in your gym man? It's hard as it and honestly all my staff has been from the Bay Area and they're all ex athletes of your Ex athletes most of our ex athletes are have trained with me because I

Haven't got to the level yet where I can like coach somebody to like be me yet. I, you have to experience it. You have to come in, shadow me. You gotta go, not necessarily go get coffee. You gotta, you gotta go to the field, be there to 11, coach the guys, be at the gym, come train high school athletes, go right back to a house call, come home, do Photoshop, go right back to a house call come home do Photoshop go right back to eye movie

Post some stuff have 30 posts are ready for you show me that you like like this is stuff that I do normally You know what I mean? So you got to go above and beyond like I'm not just gonna hire somebody just wants to post pictures Mm-hmm, you know, I've had that I've been through that and that's cool. That's what you want to do I'm not knocking you but I want I look at the iPhone I've been through that. And that's cool. That's what you want to do. I'm not knocking you. But I want I look at the iPhone. I look at Steve Jobs. I look at I read I'm reading Richard Branson's book right now and Understanding entrepreneurs and why the 300 or 210 people that work under them have helped them be successful But I've also helped them build a company And it takes everybody doing more than what's expected. You know what I mean? And that's just most trainers don't have that in them. They just, I'll be honest with you, they just go to the gym and they think, oh, I'm training 14 hours a day,

when am I going to be successful? Or what am I going to get this celebrity client? All right, you're going to get the celebrity client. But the first thing I say is, okay, you have a decision to make. You're going to go on tour, or you're gonna go be with this athlete, or be with this person for six months and sacrifice maybe a potential 50 clients. I had to make that decision so often. Sacrificing four hours of my day for one person, because they wanna pay a lot more money,

or sacrificing where I live to move somewhere and neglect 20 clients or figure out what are they doing in bigger companies? All right, let me hire four guys. You're gonna work with high school, you're gonna work with college, you're gonna work with personal training. I'll take over NFL and then I can delegate.

So now I'm more aware of how to spread my time. I'm able to be here and I've got guys in the gym right now as we speak. You know what I mean? So it's like I had to learn that and younger trainers. It's a lot of self in that. It's a lot of self. Now you've trained a lot of non-athlete celebrities as well if I'm not mistaken. What's that like? It's hard, it's hard because. Do they have a different work ethic when it comes to fitness? Completely different, completely different. You got a real question?

Yeah, I have. I almost, this is what I tell people, I'm in the business of not failing. I don't have the luxury to fail. So if I have six weeks to get you ready for camp, I'm on it. These guys have no timeline. Civilians have no timeline.

They can come one day and say, I gotta go shoot a TV show. I might not be here next week. I'm going to Paris with my girlfriend. Oh, I'm going to make it. They don't have a deadline. You know what I mean? I work off deadlines.

I love it. Not so as stressful as it was when I first started, but they're, they're severe, general population, I stopped saying civilians. General population has the luxury to be like, I could take a week off. My guys don't. But because I get results with general pop faster, they, I get more clientele that way. Like I work with, you know, a lot of different people. So what you're saying is that P Diddy is a beast

inside the studio, but he's kind of a bitch on the field. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, But he doesn't have to be ready in three weeks. So he just spread out. Different demand. Yeah. Oh, he gets after it. He gets after it. I'll give him that because the biggest part about it is these celebrities and actors and musicians want to train like the athlete. Of course.

And so when I give it to them, they're like, oh, I don't know if I'm right. This is what y'all do. Y'all run for the sun. And then lift, yeah. And then we do it again every day. So that's a hard pill to swallow for anybody. For anybody, like, even myself, I get caught up in trying to stay in shape

and I'm like, dude, I gotta get back on my track. Like I'll go on the track and run three or four days. And I'd be like, oh man, I got like 17 guys coming in next week. Let me shut it down. This is hard. Who's the hardest working non-athlete celebrity that you've trained?

Ooh, that's a great question. That might be pub actually. Yeah, he ran them. He didn't go run a marathon with like minimal training too. Yeah, he ran them. It didn't he run a marathon with like a minimal training too? Yeah, he went out, he goes out and run, he got him ready for a show he did with DJ Khaled and he was in shape for that a couple years ago. It just goes to show how important

like and how much heart transfers over into other things, right? Cause obviously he's a beast at what he's done. He's amazing. He kills it like he runs nine companies and it still works out. Like I would be like dude and you go out and host parties every night. Like you how are you able to do this and he was getting up working out, training, you know, it was amazing to me. Yeah. That's awesome. Well this has been a pleasure man. Man, it's been fun. I love doing this. I like you guys. You guys are cool.

Well you're welcome anytime. If you ever come up here and visit friends or family, whatever you come in here, and we'll do this. Now, I like talking and giving my, my spiel about the training world. Yeah, no, I'm glad we got you down here, man. One of our missions was to, when we first started this company was to find real,

because there's a lot of bullshit out there in fitness. There's a lot of terrible information in fitness for the general population especially you know the false promises and the terrible and so what we one thing that we would try to do is find really really good trainers and highlight them because we're a media company and we want to get that out there and you're definitely one of them so we appreciate it. I love it. I will come back anytime. Excellent. Excellent. Alright man thanks for coming back. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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