Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1052: Why Fasting May Be Making You Fat

Episode Date: June 13, 2019

In this episode, Sal, Adam and Justin talk about fasting, what it is, how it has become mainstream, the benefits of fasting, the downsides of fasting and in particular how fasting may, in fact, be contributing to accumulating excess body fat. How fasting has become the new “diet”. (2:35) The evolution of fasting + the different types of ‘fasts’. (4:39) The benefits of going without food. (11:10) Why fasting may be making you fat. (31:55) Mind Pump Recommends: Who is fasting FOR? How LONG should the fast be? (50:11) The RIGHT way to do a fast. (54:09) People Mentioned Valter Longo - Wikipedia Hodgetwins Official Instagram (@officialhodgetwins)  Instagram   Related Links/Products Mentioned June Promotion: MAPS Strong ½ off!! **Code “STRONG50” at checkout** Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system The Warburg Effect: How Does it Benefit Cancer Cells? Fasting and Caloric Restriction in Cancer Prevention and Treatment. To fast, or not to fast before chemotherapy, that is the question Intermittent Fasting Made Easy @Hodgetwins Is Fasting Effective? - Mind Pump Intermittent Fasting Guide | MAPS Fitness Products - Mind Pump How to Use Fasting to Build Muscle, Lose Fat and Improve Health - MPTv Mind Pump Free Resources

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So in this episode of Mind Pump, we covered one important topic. We covered fasting. This is a big one now. Fasting was almost never talked about in the fitness world.

It was relegated to the wellness world, but recently it's also become kind of a fitness trend. In fact, fasting has become the new way to diet. And we've identified a lot of problems with this. We know that fasting, in some cases, makes people fatter. It actually makes it more difficult for them to get leaner. So in this episode, we talked about everything in regards to fasting. We talked about what it is, the different types of fasting. We talked

about the positives. There definitely are real positive effects to fasting, positive health effects, positive mental and psychological effects, if it is appropriate for you. Now, if it's not appropriate for you, which is a lot of you listening right now, fasting can make things a lot worse. It can encourage restricting and binging. It can slow down your metabolism,

if done improperly, it can make hormone problems, worse hormone problems problems and more. We also talk about who fasting is appropriate for. So if you think you want to try fasting, but you're not sure if it's right for you, listen to the whole episode we cover that. And then at the end, we talk about the right way to fast, how we like to do it and teach it, to reap the most benefits. Now, before the episode starts,

I want to remind everybody that maps strong, one of our most effective muscle building and metabolism boosting workouts is 50% off. Now, this program is unconventional, so it's fun. It's different than your traditional body building workout. You're gonna be doing exercises like zircher squats and snatch grip, high poles. Circus presses. You're gonna be doing exercises like zurchar squats and snatch grip high poles. Circus presses. And you're gonna be doing work sessions where you're doing farmer carries and just

very fun workouts, but all designed to make you strong speed up your metabolism and build muscle. This popular program is 50% off this month only. Here's what you do to get the discount. Go to mapsstrong.com, M-A-P-S-S-T-R-O-N-G, dotcom, and use the code Strong50-S-T-R-O-N-G-5-0 for the discount. You know what I keep getting deems about? That I remember when we first started podcasting, we talked about the subject because in our space, it wasn't talked about a lot.

In fact, it was shunned. And then we started bringing it up and then the people in the fitness space started talking about it. And then they did, in regards to this topic, they did to it what they do to all topics, which is they turn it into... They went full retard.

Yeah, it got bad. Yeah, it turned it into... They went full retard. Yeah, it got bad. Yeah, really. It turned it into something stupid. And that's fasting, talking about fasting. I mean, when we first started talking about fasting four years ago in the fitness space, there really wasn't anybody really talking about it. Mainly because we were all told that we had to eat all the time. And if we didn't eat all the time,

that it was, you know, we would lose muscle and gain body fat and do all that stuff. And so we talked about fasting and said, look, in the right context, there's health benefits and all that stuff. But it's gotten at a control. Yeah. It's gotten, you know,

cause what did the fitness space do with fasting? Well, it's gone mainstream now. Oh, it's huge mainstream. Yeah, it was. Well, even before that too, remember how breakfast was the most important meal the day. And that was like uncompromising. Like if you didn't eat breakfast, your fox, like that was like, everybody

thought that. Yeah. So it was like ingrained in in our society that like if you didn't even breakfast, like, I mean, you might as well start over. Right, right. Yeah. It's been turned into a new diet. Yeah. Fasting has become now the new diet. You know how I always know when this has happened? When I'm getting my hair cut, and you hear all the hair stylist talking about it.

Fasting, keto, yeah, you hear them talk about it? Yeah, yeah. Hey, what do you think about the fasting diet? What do you think about fasting? Yes, so. Yes, once I know it. Yes. Hey, what do you think about the fasting diet? What do you think about fasting? Yes, absolutely. Yes. Once I know it hits my hair salon, once it hits there, I'm like, oh, fuck.

Or Uber driver. Yeah, he was talking my ear off about it the other day. Well, let's do this. Let's cover the entire topic, but I think the way we should start is to talk, specifically, first about what is fasting and how long people have been doing it. Fasting has been around since humans have been around, mainly because food was scarce.

Up until recently, up until not that long, like if you look at the whole timeline of modern humans, if it were a clock, for example, the time that humans have had plentiful and readily available food would be like Not even a minute of the total time that modern humans have been on earth. Right. So for the vast vast vast majority of times humans have been around food Was not easy to come by at all you had to either find it So this is before the agricultural revolution we had to find it we didn't we had to either find it. So this is before the agricultural revolution. We had to find it, we didn't, we had to find plants, we had to find fruit, we had to find nuts, we had to find seeds, or we had to kill it, which was where we got a majority of our calories. We would

hunt something and kill it, which required a lot of strategy, work, and effort, and you definitely weren't successful every single day. And so the human body evolved during periods of not having any food and during periods of having food. We either had it or we didn't. It was never like it is now where we just have it, whenever we want. So humans have been fasting and I do air quotes for a very, very long time. It's a part of every major religion in spiritual practice. That's another thing. Yeah, you know. That's one of the, you could trace that back.

It's a lot of different religions where they make it a point to, you get a lot out of it in terms of meditation and really like a spiritual practice of being restricted and being without food for a bit. It's the abstinence part, right? It's the eliminating something that you want so badly,

and then the spiritual growth that comes from it. I mean, the Christian Bible has, Jesus went out into the desert for 40 days and 49's no food. You have Islamic religion where they Ramadan. Ramadan. They fast while the sun is up, no water no food. You have Islamic religion where they are Ramadan. Ramadan. They fast while the sun is up, no water or food. Buddhist religions have it.

Jewish religions even have forms of fasting practices. Again, Hindu religions, I mean, it's present in all of them because I think there's a lot of wisdom in these religions in the sense that they found some of these benefits. So it's been, so I guess my point is, it's not new. It's not a new diet. It's not a new, you know, nothing, nobody discovered anything. Well, we did in the, in the 70s is when the, the, the science came to support all the

benefits that come from it. So it's been an ancient practice for the reasons that you're bringing up right now for religious reasons, abstinence and relationship with food, but what we saw in the, I think it was like the mid 70s, we'll say it was around 74. So that's when it was first diatized.

Right. And it was the wellness sphere, the hippie side, that kind of brought it up. And they would do these, and it was part of their spiritual, if you will, practice. But then they kind of turned it into a diet, like detox your body, don't eat any food,

just drink these juices or whatever. So that's when it first kind of became commercialized, if you will. An old idea, I mean, this is a historically, this is a very smart marketing strategy. It's taken old idea and then wrap it in marketing and name it something and put it out there and then you could sell books on it or maybe even products. I've even heard it called now anabolic fasting and I cringe stuff like that. But of course that happened.

Of course, of course. And there's different types of fast. Technically, if you skip a regular meal, that's considered a fast. Traditionally, that's not considered a fast. Traditionally, a fast is if you skip a day or longer without food, there are different types of benefits to the long fast.

In fact, the long fast, or we see most of the physiological benefits that we see from fasting and studies. So when we look at studies and we look at some of the benefits that we'll talk about here in just a second, most of these studies are done on 24, 48, 72 hour fast and sometimes longer. Very few of these studies are done on like I'm skipping a meal, which

some people will consider intermittent fasting or they'll call time restricted eating, right? You only eat for a period of time and then you don't eat past a certain hour or whatever. Now when I first became a trainer, which was a little bit before you guys were running around the same time, the last thing anybody ever recommended people do and our space was fast. Yeah. Nobody, in fact, back then, the word fasting was like... Nobody.

Yeah, that was like silly. Not only was it silly, we'd even call it fasting. We would just say, my clients skip breakfast. Yeah. Like they skip meals. And they need to figure this out. And here's a thing, in those days, we, there were certain reasons why we never told people fast.

Part of it was because we, some of the information we were told was false. But the other part of it was, truthfully, we did identify some of the negatives that can come from skipping meals, which we'll, I think we should get to later on this episode. So it was something we just never, almost never recommended to people.

Well, we were in the camp of, which I think some people still are, but we were for quite some time as trainers that the more meals that you ate, the faster your metabolism worked. So skipping a meal just seemed absurd since 80% plus of your clientele that come in and higher you are looking for fat loss.

So the first thing that you would do is a trainer right away is to actually ramp up the amount of meals that they're eating throughout the day in order to try and quote unquote, speed up their metabolism. Now here's the thing, we got great results doing that. It's not because of the small meals though, but I would oftentimes get good results if I had a client who skipped meals

Didn't have a good diet and I'd have them eat breakfast and eat snacks and then clean up their diet But it wasn't from the small meals right it was that they were eating better. They were taking better choices Yeah, absolutely and so Because fast things been around for so long and such a so it's been a part of our evolution for so long It's natural that our bodies would evolve to derive benefit from fasting. In fact, the leading researchers on fasting call the fasted state a alternative operating system

for the human body. So there's two operating systems, they'll say. There's the fed operating system that behaves a particular way. And then there's the fasted or non-fed operating system, both of which have their benefits. So this is the way evolution works. If something is natural or unavoidable for long enough,

then things evolve to derive benefit from that state. So if we evolved with lots of food around us all the time, after hundreds of thousands of years or a million years, our bodies would just thrive on always having food, but the opposite was true, most of the time we didn't have food. So we started to evolve to derive benefit from them and and we've now been able to identify some of the benefits that we get from going without food to physiological benefits one of which is the

the speeding up of the cell waste removal process And this is important because if your cells can't get rid of waste fast enough or efficiently enough, it can encourage the buildup of, you know, either toxins or more commonly encourage mutating cells or cells that just don't function as well. Cells are more likely to become autoimmune or become inflamed. Now this is when we see research or when people try and advertise or promote that it can be even cancer protective, right? Because a cell that is most likely to get attacked by cancer is a weaker...

Or become cancerous. Yeah, is a weaker cell, correct? It's an older cell. It's much more likely to mutate. What happens when you fast, it's kind of interesting, is, and this happens after a certain period of time, I think it's like 48 hours of fasting, your older cells start to self-destruct. This is not a bad thing in this context. In fact, this is a good thing.

The cell's ability to self-destruct or kill itself, is actually a very important function of the human body. In fact, when it goes haywire, is when you get these mutant ever-living cells that become cancer. Cancer cells are literally cells that fail to self-destruct. They just go on and on and on and become tumors and then, you know, take over your body and you keep feeding it over and over and so therefore it just decides to stay and hang around. It does. And so when you fast, the older cells, a switch gets turned on and this is just for lack of a better way of explaining it. A switch gets turned on and these older cells kill themselves. The younger healthier cells do something kind of interesting though.

They actually hunker down and strengthen. So your younger cells strengthen, your older cells kill themselves. Now during this process of no food, while the old cells are dying, your body's actually stimulating stem cells, like crazy. And what's happening is your body is preparing

for the next time you have food, for the next time you refeed. Then when you refeed, these stem cells get turned into new cells. And so again, for lack of a better way of explaining this, when you fast, you are essentially regenerating your body, essentially regenerating some of your cells. In fact, there was a cat study that was done a while ago

where they fasted cats for 72 hours, and they essentially completely replaced the immune cells of the cat. Now, why is this a good thing? Well, the cells that are likely in the case of immune system, the cells that are likely to become autoimmune are the old cells. And in fact, they find that with autoimmune disorders, and by the way, this is an old treatment.

If you go back in history and look at the way that doctors, like in ancient Greece, for example, would treat patients, is oftentimes they would fast them. And they would find oftentimes that it would cure them. Well, you've seen that documentary where they showed practices that are actually out there that promote fasting as the main way that they're finding success healing a lot of these autoimmune issues. Yes. And in the terms of cancer, now we've identified a long time ago that cancer cells seem to weaken and oftentimes die, not always, but oftentimes in the absence of glucose and the absence of sugar.

I believe it's called maybe Dougie could look at this stuff. I think it's the Warburg effect if I'm not mistaken, named after the scientist that discovered this. And so when patients were, would consume diets that were devoid of carbohydrates or sugar and relatively low in protein as well, because remember your body can take amino acids and turn them into glucose, that cancer cells would weaken or tumors would shrink. But that effect is, it is the warberg effect. That effect is amplified on a complete fast, because there are ways your bots, cancer cells can use

amino acids and even fats to feed themselves. Now, doesn't that ramp up with the time also? So the longer the fast, the more that ramps up, the shorter the fast, the less of that effect you get. In Chinese medicine, remember Chinese medicine is thousands of years old, and there's a lot of wisdom in Chinese medicine, and it has its own special value

that's different than Western medicine. One is not better than the other. I think they're both complimentary if you look at them the right way. But the old, in Chinese medicine, the way of treating cancer was a long, was to starve fast. This was a classic Chinese medicine method of treating tumors as they would just not eat until the cancer went away. Now, the irony of that is actually

science is showing that that actually works. There was a study done in the U.S. I think Dr. Walter Longo was the one conducting the study in, I believe it was Southern California, and they had people who had cancer, and they had them fast. They took the group, they split it in half, half of them fasted for 72 hours, and then went and got chemo, the normal chemo treatment. The other half didn't fast and did the regular chemo and cancer treatment. The group that fasted had a far better response to the chemo and less side effects from the chemo. So it essentially weakened the cancer cells to the point where

they were just killed by the chemo easier. And, as I said earlier, fasting seems to cause healthy cells to hunker down and get stronger. And get stronger. And they were able to protect themselves from the chemo. So, right now we're in the process, if I'm not mistaken, the FDA is actually reviewing fasting

as an adjuvant therapy for cancer. And if you look at studies across the board, the single most black and white thing you can do to reduce your risk of cancer is to do regular long fast. And I say the most black and white thing because if you compare fasting to like just eating a really healthy diet and exercising, not going to be as effective, it's just fasting is black and white thing because if you compare fasting to like just eating a really healthy diet and exercising, not going to be as effective. It's just fasting is black and white, like eating a healthy diet and exercising much more complex, fasting quite simple in the sense that you just tell people, hey, you know, once a month, don't eat for three days and you'll lower your cancer risk and that seems to

be true. Yeah, no, I was going to bring up the the fact I noticed too with fasting, there's a spike in growth hormone versus, you know, the opposite where we're in the fed state, like, you know, there might be more of a spike of testosterone and that insulin or insulin. In particular, yes. So, so insulin and growth hormone tend to be inversely related. And when you don't fast, you see insulin drop, drop, drop, obviously your body doesn't need to put out insulin to, you know, to process or whatever utilize the carbohydrates or proteins, you're not eating them. Growth hormone spikes and it goes up actually quite high.

And are there benefits to this? We have, we don't know yet. We don't know yet, but I would speculate that there probably are some benefits. Or aren't there some theories around this? Like, you know, we're that there's a good chance that, you know, back in the days, you would be day two or three, you haven't had any food, and you finally see prey or kill, and the body has to go and kill that, and you probably don't have a lot of reserve

because you haven't had any calories, and so the body gets this spike from growth hormone. Yeah, here's the interesting thing about fasting for humans is if you're relatively healthy, long fast seem to not have any negative effect, which is so counter to what a lot of people believe. So like if you take someone's really healthy, everything else is good,

and you have them like fast for like 10 days, 14 days, 21 days, some studies even will do. They'll definitely lose muscle mass, they'll definitely lose body fat, but everything seems to be, the organs will shrink, your liver tends to shrink, but they rebound when they say are fat. It's that whole cellotology,

it's like your old liver cells will die, it's liver shrinks, and when you refeed, it grows back and tends to be healthier. So it's really interesting that we produce energy just fine for a while through ketosis, through our own fat stores. And so we're able to move and have energy. I don't think you're gonna have energy

like when you feed yourself, but you'll have energy. And I think the growth hormone spike helps with that. So insulin goes down, growth hormone goes up. For some people, this was me fasting actually contributed to a better relationship with food for me. Now, why for me? Because I was the kind of person who had, I had a bad relationship with food in this particular way.

I was a skinny kid, I wanted to build muscle. I thought I could never skip a meal. I thought I had to eat every other hour. I force fed myself. I brought food with me and protein bars and protein shakes with me everywhere I went. I was chained to food. It was literally a leash that was tied to me everywhere I went.

If I went on vacation, if I went out to dinner, if I did anything and I was gone without food for longer than two hours, I had to have food with me. Fasting showed me that I could go 24 hours of that food and not lose muscle and gains. And so it got me to work on my food relationship quite a bit. I know Adam, you had a similar experience with fasting. No, 100% same thing.

I think the relationships in my opinion, this is the most important pro. I think any client that I've ever taught fasting to, it's to make them realize that when you thought you were hungry before, you really weren't hungry before. More than likely that was more psychological or cravings that you have and you weren't truly hungry. I mean, to be hungry, we would need to go, you know, beyond 24 to 48 hours without eating very few people accidentally do that in a day. You know, we may miss a meal

and go an extra four hours of not eating and stretch out, you know, you maybe just had breakfast and you miss breakfast and you went all day until dinner, like to somebody that, oh, I'm starving. It's like, no, you're really not starving. And so teaching clients to break free of that, in my opinion, is the most beneficial part of all the different benefits that come from fasting because we live in a society today where we are so used to getting everything we want right away when we want it, that we've actually trained

ourselves to believe that when you feel this grumbling in your stomach or you feel like you really want pizza or you really want something like this, you're starving and you're hungry. And it's like, we don't know how to navigate. Right. You know, and that's something I noticed too. I had this similar experience where I just didn't even realize that I was always in a fed state. I just, if I even felt any kind of inclination that I was hungry or had some kind of craving, like there's a gas station, there's somewhere there where I could go grab,

some food to kind of satiate me, just in the meantime, to get towards my meal. And your whole day is revolving around these meals. It's very social. It's very much like a fabric of what, you know, how we operate during the day and to be able to pull myself and remove myself from, you know, that wheel was super enlightening.

You also start to see how many things that we ritualize around food too, which I think is really interesting. Like, I remember the first time that I experienced, you know, long periods of fast where I was fasting for 24 hours or more, I found myself with all kinds of extra time. Yeah, I was like, don't know what to do with it.

Yeah, like damn, normally I would spend 30 minutes to an hour making a meal right here. I would be getting ready to go do this. We'd be watching TV and then shoveling food in our face. There's a lot of these things that I'd be doing around food that I was no longer doing and I had all this extra free time. And so there's a lot of these things that I'd be doing around food that I was no longer doing, and I had all this extra free time. And so there's a lot of benefits

that I think come from teaching somebody about fasting, and the main ones that I think about that I've seen the most benefits with clients and myself personally have just been helping them break free of that relationship of food and that understanding of what real hunger really is like because you get to this point where you think you're hungry and you say, oh, I've committed already. I'm going to fast for 24 hours and here I'm at hour

12 or so, which tends to be where this happens for people. And you mentally push through it. And then about an hour or so goes by, and that feeling passes completely. And you realize that just how psychological it was. Right, and you realize like, oh shit, I wasn't that crazy hungry. Like I'm totally fine right now. No, and it also helps you deal with your issues without food.

So what I mean by that is oftentimes people will, when they're anxious or stressed or bored, they eat food. Well, if they're fasting, now I need to deal with this uncomfortable feeling without my favorite drug, which is food, which can be a good thing because now the person can identify like, oh, I reach for food whenever I'm bored. I know I'm fasting today, so I don't have that food. What are the other things that I can do to deal with this uncomfortable feeling? Or just sit here and deal with this uncomfortable feeling

rather than occupy myself or distract myself with food. And I think that's why it's part of most spiritual practices. Well, I think there's just massive benefits to understanding behaviors like that. I think behaviors and how your whole day is organized around these things, and coping mechanisms like you're talking about. All these things, just being able to really assess yourself. That, including that spiritual practice, I think that's one of the main things.

You're really reflecting, you know, those, all those like components that make up who you are. Absolutely. I also love using it as a tool to reset either my own palette or a client's palette. So if I have a client who just says they, they don't like vegetables or they don't eat fruit in their diet, throwing them on a 24 or 48 hour fast. And then when you reintroduce foods like this, when they truly are hungry, because they haven't had anything to eat for 24 or 40 hours, having some greens with a little bit of salt,

they're a little bit of butter on, is like the most amazing thing ever. It tastes completely different. Right. And the same thing goes for fruit. If you're somebody who has a lot of sugar in your diet, you eat a lot of processed foods. And so when you eat fruit like apples and bananas, peaches, peaches, grapes, berries, whatever, and they, it tastes bland to you. One of the best things that I've ever been able to figure out for my clients is to put them on a fast and then reintroduce some of these foods.

And it's amazing how it resets the palate because you've just oversaturated all your senses with all these foods that are super, super processed and are shooting or getting you like, you know, five times what the sensation that fruit would give, you're used to drinking coax and having candy and ice cream and these things that were just not found in nature. And so then when you have something like a strawberry, it tastes blah, but then you fast and then you reintroduce those things. Yeah, because your body does adapt to things that it perceives. So it's, it's okay, here's a great analogy.

It's like you're asleep and then you wake up in the morning and the sun is bright. And at first, the brightness is overwhelming. It's hard for you to open your eyes. But then your body acclimates and then the sunlight no longer bothers your eyes and that's the perfect amount of sunlight. Well, this is what happens when you're hammering your palette

with these extreme flavors that we get from like processed foods. Over at first, they become, they're overwhelming. In fact, that may have happened so long ago that you might not even remember when it was overwhelming. But now you're so accustomed to it that that's what tastes normal to you, to the point where natural food can no longer compete. Natural food is bland.

It's again, it's like a super bright sunlight versus a dim room now. Now, whole natural foods are like a dim room. You can barely see in it. But if you fast, it's one of the fastest ways you could reset your palate. When you fast after 24 or 48 hours, then you eat whole natural foods, and it's like,

it's not a whole new life. It's delicious again, and if you stay there, and you don't go back in the other direction again, now you can start to enjoy the palatability of healthy foods, which makes it easier. Well, I also noticed too, like being in the fed state all the time, I would make things a little more cloudy for me

in terms of like remembering information and being able to have these kind of like cognitive sharpness. And I noticed that was something that when I fasted, I was able to access more sharp, more clarity of mind. And also too, I don't know if we brought the benefit too of neurogenesis, which is something that you can't find a way to regrow brain cells.

Like there's not a whole lot of ways that that even happens. This is one of those ways where I was like, my mind was blown. It's the only way as far as we know, right? Yeah, it's one of the, I mean, BDNF goes up in the brain, which is like miracle grow for your brain.

Do you like the rest of the body, where stem cells get stimulated? Fasting seems to encourage neurogenesis, the forming of new brain cells and new connections, fasting is actually quite healthy for the brain. And again, in ancient practices, philosophers routinely would fast in order to come up with insight and breakthroughs. And that's probably part of the reason, the other part of it may be that when you're fasting, you tend to go into ketosis

after a couple of days. Right. And when your brain is running on ketones, for many people, it tends to feel sharper. It's a cleaner type of energy for the brain. Which is so interesting to me, because as a kid, don't you guys remember this? Like on Test Day, mom would feed me

with a stack of pancakes and syrup and bacon and you sit there all probably the opposite. Yeah right. You know in a thing of orange juice. I mean I just oversaturate my my body with sugar like right before I head off into a day of of testing where man what I know now if I was to go into that same situation where I have a big test or something where I can be mentally sharp. I'm going to go in fast. It's funny. I remember doing exactly that.

And I remember sitting in class looking at the test and trying not to fall asleep. Yeah. You know, because I just had like four waffles with butter and syrup or whatever. You know, but you know, all these good things that we're talking about fasting, because I mean, here's the thing. To be quite honest, if you're a healthy, regular fast or one of the healthiest things you can do for your body, if this is true, and the studies will show it,

the science will support it. But that being said, all these amazing benefits that all of us have listed, it could be abused. Well, not only that, but how often do you actually recommend fasting to clients? How often do you take a client say, this is a good person who I think should fast?

Not very often. Yeah, very seldom. Not very often. And there's a reason why we don't recommend fasting to a lot of people. We just talked about the food relationship and how it helped us with our food relationship. But here's a deal.

Most people's poor relationship with food is not the same as mine was or Adams was But here's a deal. Most people's poor relationship with food is not the same as mine was or Adams was, where they're trying to feed themselves because they're too skinny. Most people at the office, most of them people are afraid of getting fat, and so their poor relationship looked a lot like

restricting and binging, in which case fasting is just restricting for them. All it's doing is it's encouraging somebody. Well, and it encourages the extreme on the other end. Of course, because they're so used to the yo-yo back and forth of, I'm either on or off the diet where if I'm on the diet, I'm eating three salads a day in fruit and vegetables and that's it. And then when I'm off the diet, I'm eating fast food and sweets and junk food and that they already kind of have this diet

And there's leadership and then somebody introduces them to intermittent fasting says hey My girlfriend says that intermittent fasting is a great way for you to lose body fat I want to try it and like oh this and it you know what it works so well for them Because it's already close to the bullshit. They were already doing it becomes a go-to this becomes a part of the process It looks a lot like you know like an anorexic practice where it's like, okay, I could just restrict myself from eating and I'm going to lose body fat. And that's where my mind is in terms of using this practice. Yeah, and it's funny because, and this is what we identified back in the day in fitness.

This is exactly what we identified back in the day in fitness. This is exactly what we identified. I would get a client and like most of my clients, their goal was to lose weight. And like most of my clients, the way that they've tried to lose weight in the past was by starving themselves. Everybody, every single person has, you know, have you been on a diet? Yes, what was that diet?

Oh, I ate barely anything or I just didn't eat breakfast or I just wouldn't eat all day and This was what people did forever when they wanted to lose weight the problem was that we which we identified was What ended up happening when they would do that? They would lose weight and get it back and lose weight and get it back and oftentimes they'd gain back more Most of time then they had lost in the first place Well not to mention and we've talked about this before, what happens when you go on a, you know, colloquially restrictive diet or no food in this case is the body eventually adapts. And if you start running these days of fasting and fasting and you

start fasting all the time and you're eating very, very low calorie when you look at it like as a, from a, you know, vantage point of a week or a month at a time, you know, because it's not just, it's not just a day to day thing. You have to look at the overall, oh, how much food have I consumed over this last week or two? And when you look at the daily average and then you look at the lack of nutrients that they're probably getting, your body is going to start to, it's going to realize like,

oh shit, you know, Sal is not giving me very much to eat every single day. I better slow this metabolism down and you learn to utilize the little bit of nutrients that he's giving me. And so what ends up happening is the metabolism slows down from all this fasting. And then if you're not perfect forever at that caloric intake and you decide to enjoy somebody's birthday or you fall off the wagon for a weekend, then the body just rebounds like twice as hard. It does. And your body adapts.

Your body starts to adapt and learn. And it's not a bad thing. Your metabolism is not supposed to be flexible. It's supposed to speed up at times and slow down at times. And so if you're just not giving yourself food a lot, your body slows down so that it can run off of that lower amounts of food. Now to be fair, if you're doing the daily intermittent fast and you're otherwise healthy and your calories are equal

to what they would be if you ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner, your metabolism's not gonna slow down because your total calories per day are the same. But here's the thing and here's what I've noticed, when people do the whole skit meals version of fasting, where they skip breakfast, skip lunch, and eat dinner, the dinner starts to look more and more like a binge. It starts to look more and more like how much food can I fit in my mouth for this next meal because I have an eaten all day long.

I experienced this when I started doing the warrior type fast where I would go all day without food and then I come home and then I'd know I'd have to consume X amount of calories and programs, approaching and stuff in order to maintain my fitness goals and it ended up looking like, and they used to call it fast and feast, but really it's starvin' binge is what it ends up looking like because it really, really does encourage that bad relationship with food. But yeah, if you do the long fast for too long, you're definitely going to start to slow your metabolism down because your total calories are low all the time and the metabolism evolved

to do that. It evolved to slow down over time. This was one of the problems that I had with some of your your famous YouTube people I remember this was when the Hodg twins got really big and The way they one of the way other than being funny because I think they're funny. They're hilarious But one of the ways that they got really well known was when intermittent fasting was starting to become popular They were right on the right on the front end of that and they would show themselves not eating all day They go get their training session and then they would just crush like Burger King and McDonald's and eat all this crazy food at the end

They're young muscular fit guys that are training and lifting pretty heavy and they were showing people that you know You could go all day, you know not eat for 12 to 16 hours. And then in this window, we crush 3,000 plus calories of McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, whatever fast food. A terrible message, yeah. Yeah, and the truth is, somebody at that age and that good of shape and that good of a metabolism. It's still a calories in versus calories in. Yeah, it still comes down to that.

They absolutely could stay in decent shape, maybe even getting good shape by using methods like this. That message, I think, is a really bad message for a majority of people. Fasting is a terrible way to lose fat. Terrible, it's a terrible tool, I should say. That does not mean you don't lose fat when you fast. No. Of course, you lose fat any time you're in a calorie deficit, whether it's no food or little food. Now to be clear, if you do it, if you fast for a long time,

you'll lose muscle and body fat. As your body tries to slow down, it's metabolism. Lifting weights will help offset this a little bit. And if you, of course, if you do it right, and you refeed properly and train that Everything the muscle tends to come back But if you starve yourself to lose weight a lot of the weight that you lose You know will be muscle. It's a terrible if I have never recommended fasting for fat loss I've never looked at somebody and said oh your goal is weight loss Yeah, we're gonna have you fast. No the only time I I've ever recommended fasting was for health benefits,

independent of fat loss or fat gain or anything like that. Well we also talk about when we first start a client off, one of the very first things I do is I have them track their food for a week so I could just see what they're eating and always, okay, always, I have to introduce things to their diet before I start to take anything away. Because they're just lacking things their body needs, whether it be fiber, whether it be protein, whether it be healthy fats, most people aren't eating that way. They aren't eating very balanced and are lacking some of the micro and macro nutrients that their body needs.

So when I look at the diet as a whole, I look at it and go, oh wow, this person, even though they're coming to me and they want to lose 30 pounds of body fat, their body's not getting enough of what it needs or wants to run efficiently in the first place. So let me introduce some of these greens

and let's get some more fiber into the diet or let me have them get some lean proteins in the diet because they're not getting enough protein in there to help recovery and build muscle. And so I end up introducing food to somebody who's trying to lose body fat. So if you take that same person, which is my average client that I've trained over all these years,

and you said, I wanna do intermittent fasting for fat loss, and you just go right into their poor diet habits that they currently were having, and you transition them into intermittent fasting. What you end up doing is you still are eating foods that are not ideal for their body, or you're not getting the nutrients your body needs, and now you're just putting it in a condensed window,

or you're restricting calories and more nutrients that person needs. And ultimately, it's not ideal for the metabolism. No, it totally, it encourages a very, very bad relationship. If I take somebody who has always been afraid of being overweight and is dealing with body fat and I tell them to skip meals, I am gonna make their food relationship terrible.

Yeah. The person you tell the skip meals is the person that has a fear of skipping meals that always needs to eat because they need to build muscle. That's the person, that's the guy or girl who may benefit. This is why I didn't recommend it very often. The majority of my clients were already very motivated. They were already like very active, very much like already teetering towards too low of

calorie intake to begin with. And so for me to then apply this as a practice, it's just gonna lower their metabolism even further and it's not gonna do any benefit. Well, here's the other thing too. We talked about growth hormone going up with fasting, but so does cortisol. Cortisol is your energy hormone. When it's high, it gives you more energy to move and function. And your body,

you remember, without food is preparing you or giving you energy to find food, right? This is an, again, evolutionary mechanism. But we know as cortisol being the stress hormone. So if you're somebody who's getting poor sleep and you're under a lot of stress, you know, maybe HPA axis dysfunction of some sort. Do you think fasting is gonna be a great idea? Definitely not. The type A, clients that I would get who worked out too much, didn't get enough sleep, who were frazzled,

which is a lot of you listening right now, who over-trained and don't get enough sleep and just over, beat yourself up all the time, fasting is gonna make it way worse. It's another stress. It's another stress. In that case, yes. Yeah, it's another stress.

And then the body doesn't know, I mean, that's the thing that I think people forget to understand that working out is a stress. Not eating food for a long period of time can be a stress. You have all the stress from work. You have the stress from the environment that you're in with your work environment, with your family life, your relationship. So you get you and if you're that and you're also a type A, go get air, grind it. So

you're your balls to the wall at everything or you give everything you got and you add in something like fasting, your body's just going revolt. It's not gonna respond to you the way you would like it to respond and it's a terrible choice to use for the intentions of fat loss. I've never recommended fasting to a client for fat. I love to recommend fasting to clients that I think are in the right mindset, in the right place. And then also that we haven't touched on

is why I'm not a fan of the warrior fast and why I'm not a fan of like, you know, consistently intermittent fasting and the fasting windows, I personally believe that the most benefits that you get from it is less frequent and longer duration. Yeah, the science would support that. So I think that once a month doing a two or a three day fast

or twice a month doing a one day type of fast, I think it's far more beneficial for health reasons, for relationship with food. You will get all the other benefits that we talked about from fasting in there. And then I also believe that it doesn't allow the body to get really adapted to this eating pattern because the knock that I have on the fasting window

and doing it so regularly is our bodies are really, really smart. They learn to adapt and I would imagine that if you do it on a very regular basis all the time, that the same benefits that you got the very first time you did it versus the 30th time in a row, you've done it. They would diminish. It only makes logical sense that's what would happen.

Yeah, I mean, that definitely could be true. I think the bigger thing is the looking at the benefits of a long fast versus the daily, day to day type of fast. And in my experience, here's my personal experience. I have a lot of experience with fasting. My personal experience is I get way more benefits if I occasionally do a 48 hour fast versus doing the,

every single day, skipping one or two meals type of fast. I get way, way better benefits. Everything from my gut health to my athletic performance to just my state of mind everything. And the clients that I've worked with who fasting was appropriate for have echoed the same thing. You know, back to the hormone thing, here's another one that a lot of people don't like to talk about, which I find funny, Justin you brought up, anabolic fasting, which I think is hilarious. Fasting lowers testosterone. Now, it's not permanent.

It'll lower while you're fasted. And when you refeed testosterone goes back up. But in a fasted state, your testosterone does tend to drop. So when we talk about the growth hormone boosting benefits of fasting and everybody's like, oh, I want my growth hormone to go up. So I'm going to fast.

You have the counter lowering testosterone effects and the rising cortisol effects from it. Now, in that context, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but the reason why I'm bringing this up is to offset the bullshit sales of, it raises growth hormone, therefore, it's anabolic. Well, it also lowers testosterone. So it's kind of like in the middle, I guess.

It doesn't do anything, and of course, fasting for long periods of time. Your body does pair muscle down. Now, it takes a long time before your body burns muscle for energy, so there's a bit of a myth there where your body starts to burn muscle right away. That takes a while for that to happen. But you still lose muscle, not because your body's burning it,

but because what we talked about earlier, your body's trying to slow down its metabolism. And one of the biggest offenders in this case, or one of the biggest calorie burners in your body, is your skeletal muscle. And big muscles burn more calories. So if your body wants to slow down, it's going to reduce muscle mass.

Now, keep in mind, if I do a 48 hour fast and I lose a little bit of muscle and then I refeeded and I do it properly, muscle comes back and then some. But if this is inappropriate for you, if you're somebody who has too much stress, like I talked about earlier, you have HPA access dysfunction and you throw fasting on top of it, you're gonna lose muscle and it's not gonna come back. It's not gonna come back until you balance things out and get your body in a healthier state, because all you've done is made your health worse. And by the way, women are more sensitive

to fasting than men. This is another important note, and I know this, I belong to these forums a while ago on fasting. And you'd see men on there that'd be like, oh, I went four days and five days without fasting and I started refeeding, I felt great. And women would be like, I feel terrible. I'm losing hair. My nails are getting weaker. My periods, you know, being irregular or whatever. And it makes sense. Not to say that women can't fasten men can, but they're just more sensitive to fasting,

mainly because their bodies obviously evolve to procreate. And so if you're without food for long enough, your body's like, yeah, we're not gonna let you procreate. And so it's gonna make changes. And this happens with a low calorie diet too. If you go low calorie for too long, you lose your period and hormones go out of whack because your body does not want to procreate.

So women tend to be a little bit more sensitive to this. But fasting for fat loss is, if that's your primary goal for fasting, I'm gonna tell you this right now. Bad idea. Bad idea. For anybody, for anybody, it's a terrible idea. Bad idea. Bad idea. Bad idea. For anybody. For anybody, it's a terrible idea to do it.

You're already walking into it. I mean, here's the thing you need to understand. All powerful tools are double-sided. I don't care. Any powerful tool that you use in your arsenal to help you accomplish a particular goal has a dual side. There's a light and a dark side to it. Just like any, I can pull any powerful tool.

Look at fire, the invention of fire. There's a side of it that could be very dark and the side of it that could be very light. Fasting can be a very, very powerful tool for spiritual growth and for a good relationship with food. Now, what does that mean on the opposite side? It means it could also completely destroy the spiritual side of it and completely destroy your relationship to food. If you're walking into fasting because you're doing it to lose body fat, I hate to break it to you, but that's the dark side. You're already using fasting as a powerful tool to damage your relationship to food. You will not gain a better relationship to food

if you walk into fasting with the idea of losing body fat. Not gonna happen 100% it's gonna make your relationship to food worse. The only people that benefit from fasting in a positive way are the people that are going into it, not to lose body fat, not to change their body composition, not to become more fit, but rather for the spiritual and health benefits, to feel better, to become healthier,

and maybe the abstinence effect that you get from not having food and dealing with things like natural hunger, boredom, stress, anxiety, and so on. And I cannot stress that enough. You go into fasting because you're trying to burn body fat, 100% poor relationship, preferred, and it is completely inappropriate to join the dark side. So let's briefly talk about who we would recommend

fasting to and how we would. So the first person that comes to mind right away, I used to love to do this to my competitors. At the time that I was coaching competitors, I believe I was the only coach of this, at least I was the only coach that I knew of that would actually have his competitors fast during a cut or a prep. And I remember every, every client that I had that I made do that, I know freaked out when I told him that, hey, tomorrow, we're fasting. And they'd

be like, what? And the reason why I wanted to do that is because I told him that, hey, tomorrow we're fasting. And they'd be like, what? And the reason why I wanted to do that is because I also know that we had, I had trained them so well before that to be tracking, carrying food and so tied to food that I also wanted to show them the benefits of being completely disconnected from the food. And so it was my way of showing them

a good relationship with food and that your muscles not gonna fall off your body like crazy, we're gonna be absolutely fine the next day. And they would be, in fact, most of them will wake up feeling amazing the next day, especially when they refed it and they exercised. So those are the clients I love to intermittently introduce it. Now, a normal client who I think has a healthy relationship

with food, we're in a good place metabolism-wise, so they're eating a good amount of calories. I like to tell clients to do a two-day fast once a month or two, one, 24-hour fast. So I like a long, 48-hour once a month, if I can get them to do, or split to 24-hour fast in the month is what I like to do.

Yeah, I mean, the irony is, as I'm thinking about this, is people who fast for fat loss end up getting fat over time. I just want to make that point before I talk about who I think is ideal. If you go into it trying to burn body fat and that's your goal, you're just going to get fat over time as you continue to restrict and binge, restrict and binge,

because that's what you're going to end up happening. Here's the irony. the person who I think fasting is perfect for is somebody who's already fit and healthy. Somebody who's got a good relationship with food, somebody who's already done most of the other work. It is not the person who's just starting to do the work. It's not the person who's like, hey, I need to improve my health.

I've been eating shitty. I'm not exercising. I'm not going to tell them, oh, first thing you should do is fast. The person I say that is going to benefit, somebody who's been doing that already, somebody who's already developed a good relationship to food, somebody who's already eating a good diet, somebody who's already active, they're already healthy,

they've already got good stress management. Now let's add in the practice of fasting. That's the tip of the pyramid. I mean, you do have to like build that base out before we get up to that point. I mean, it is a powerful tool like you're mentioning earlier to where if you don't like really know how to navigate through that and have the right intention going into it, you know, you could do yourself some damage. And so that's so I think that's the cautionary, why we're being kind of cautionary about it in general

is just to educate people that here's how we would actually use it, but it's all pretty much how to be more healthy. It's not like how to alter your body composition. Yeah, it's like you're building a Lego set and you're skipping to page 100 and you're trying to add those pieces on. And it's not gonna work.

You haven't built the rest of it that it attaches to. So it's not gonna work. If you don't already have a good diet and a good relationship to food, if you're not already appropriately active, so you're doing a good workout, that's right for your body. If you don't already have good sleep and you're otherwise in good health, fasting isn't going to, you're not going to derive much benefit from it.

In fact, you may instead derive negative effects from it, like we talked about earlier. So keep that in mind if you're thinking about doing fasting, keep that in mind, especially if you think you're going to fast just to burn body fat. Now, I think we should also talk about how to do it the right way, because, and it sounds simple, right, just don't eat, but there are things that I've identified that seem to make it easier and where I also derive

the most benefit from fasting. I find for me and for the people that I've worked with who fast, the best way to fast is to lead into a fast with a low carbohydrate ketogenic type diet that's relatively low calorie. And here's why. The shock of a fast, the psychological shock of a fast,

is terrible when you go into it after eating a lot of calories. So if I like, because here's what a lot of people do, a lot of people think, I'm fasting Saturday, Saturday and Sunday I'm going to fast. So then Thursday and Friday they're fucking, I'm going nuts, I'm eating whatever I'm going out, I'm eating a lot of food, you're going to have a rough fast Saturday and Sunday if you do it that way. That's a tough transition.

So what I do is I prepare for my fast, let's say I'm gonna start my fast on Saturday, I start preparing on Thursday. My calories are lower, my carbohydrates in particular are lower. Friday comes around, I have almost no carbohydrates to kind of try to kick, start my body into ketosis. My calories are, again, low. I'm eating clean, I'm eating whole foods, and then I walk into my fast where I'm not having any food at all for whatever length of period of time. I think that's very important to approach it that way first and to scale that and lead into it with that momentum.

I have seen people use products like cleanses and different things to distract you while you're doing your fast, which I highly don't recommend. All you need is water and being present and conscious of, that's why we kind of tie it in more towards the spiritual side of it because you have to be comfortable in the fact that water is all the sustenance you need. It's work. You're going in there to do work.

Taking BCAAs while you're fasting is stupid. It's so dumb. And again, those are people who are going into the fast for the body composition aesthetic effects. Right. If you want to derive the most effects from fasting, you don't have food and you don't have anything else either. That includes stimulants, that includes depressants.

So I know some people are like, oh, I like. It's another challenge. Yes, black coffee or tea while I'm fasting. And technically, do you still derive the physiological benefits from fasting if you have things that are devoid of calories like tea and coffee? Yes.

Are you going to get all of the potential benefits from fasting? No, I go without anything. When I'm fasting, I'm fasting. That means no coffee, no caffeine. That means very little stimulation. I am like working on myself, you know, minus the food. And from a physiological standpoint, there is some evidence that shows that it's better

because your liver still has to process caffeine and stuff from teas and stuff like that. So there is some evidence to show that you'll get better physiological benefits too if you go completely without. A couple things that I also do when I fast, you may notice high-potention while fasting. This is the, and this is a normal natural thing that'll happen for some people where their blood pressure will drop. Not a bad thing, but it can be a little bit annoying if you're sitting down and then you go to stand up

and you'll find yourself get a little dizzy or feel a little faint and then everything comes back to normal after a few seconds. Something that can help with that, oh, in headaches as well. Some people will get headaches because of the vasodilating effects

that cause the hypotension, some people that can trigger headaches, add a little bit of salt or minerals to your water. So mineral water is good for this, or a little bit of sea salt or pink Himalayan salt in your pinch of it in your water, tends to help people in this particular state. I like to go to bed early when I'm fasted, probably because I want to sleep and get over what I get over with. But also I think the sleeping process helps with the fast. And don't plan any super high intensity workouts.

Yes. People always ask me like, what do you do? How do you work out when you fast? I'm not trying to build muscle. I'm not trying to build muscle when you fast. I'm not trying to build muscle. When I fast, what I do is I am active, but a lot of my activity revolves around, I'll go on walks outside or hikes just to be around nature. It's also really important to what you eat when you come out of the fast. That's such a important thing. Yeah, was like a major shocker for me,

the first time that I did like an extended fast, where I went longer than 24 hours, so my first 48 hour fast. Did you do that one with us? It was a before. It was with you guys. It was a nothing. And boy, did I realize how sensitive my gut was.

I mean, luckily I had talked to you beforehand and you had recommended that I just do something really light and like bone broth and so that's become like a go-to, like when I fast I'll just have like a bowl of bone broth and maybe some, like a small bowl of veggies and not even a big bowl because even the vegetables, especially unless they're really, really cooked really well,

are tough for my gut to process the first time. It's common that the first bowel movement that you have when you refeed after a fast is gonna be diarrhea. This is common for a lot of people. Your body, your digestive system literally, not literally, but it figuratively goes asleep, I should say. So you're waking back up and it's starting to move

and processing, you don't want to throw a bunch of hard to digest heavy food at it, like Justin did when he came out of his bathroom. I saw this eyes pointing out. What did you do? You had a huge burger or something. It just shit you saw. It was a bad idea.

Definitely recommend it. Oh, yeah, that was tough on the stomach. No, anything that's important, you treat what you do before and after it, seriously, right? Like your workout, if your workout's really important, you do a good priming session before, afterwards you feed yourself properly,

maybe do some proper stretching, like you don't just go into it and expect to get the same results you would get if you treated what you did before and after. Well the same is true for a fast. Coming out of a fast, slow, come out slowly and eat things that are easily digestible and in small portions. So bone broth, a cup of bone broth, sip on it, don't just pound it.

Well cooked vegetables because vegetables are far easier to digest when they're well cooked, so I recommend people boil them. So boil some broccoli or rapini or asparagus, make it mushy, and eat that with some of your bone broth, and then wait like an hour and a half to hours to see how you feel. Oh, my my guts okay. Have a little bit more. The day after your fast is a slow refeed. It's the second day after the fast where you can start to eat back to normal. Do not jump back into normal eating after a prolonged fast because you are gonna, and it's usually the ones that are long in the 24 hours.

After a 24 hour fast, if you just eat once a day, you're not a big deal. 48 hours or more, you're going to want to take your time and slowly refeed your body and give your body time to acclimate. What you'll find is three, four days later, you might notice some improved athletic performance, better sleep, better health, better sense of well-being,

adjusted palette where you'll eat food and you'll be like, wow, this tastes really good. I mean all these incredible benefits, but again, I'm gonna stress this again, if you go into it without a good relationship to food, you're not gonna get any of those benefits. Here's what it'll look like. If you're going into for fat loss, you'll fast for 48, 72 hours. Notice you lost five pounds of water and maybe some body fat on the scale. Oh wow, this totally worked. My fast is over and you're gonna go back

and then you're gonna binge and it's all gonna come back and you're gonna have bad gut health afterwards and it's gonna be a total waste and it's only gonna encourage you to try it again, which looks a lot like restricting and binging. So if you can't, if it is appropriate for you, make sure you do it the right way. Take it seriously. Don't plan lots of events or, here's another thing.

I don't schedule outings when I'm fasted. It's not easy. It's already not easy enough to fast for so many two hours. I'm not trying to go to my mom's house for Sunday dinner and sit there while everybody eats, you know, during my fast. I'm probably gonna skip it. I'm gonna pick a weekend where I'm not doing anything. I can just focus on the work I'm trying to do. So, and that's it. Look, go to mindpumpfree.com and download our guides. We got a ton of them on there. They're all free.

You can also find us all on Instagram. We all post our own information that's unique and separate from the podcast. You can find me at minepumpsal, you can find Justin at minepump Justin, you can find Adam at minepump Adam. Thank you for listening to minepump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable

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