Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1135: Amelia Boone Takes on Her Biggest Obstacle... A 20 Year Eating Disorder

Episode Date: October 7, 2019

In this episode, Sal, Adam and Justin speak with 4x world champion obstacle course racer Amelia Boone who goes into detail about her 20-year struggle with Anorexia and how she is taking control of this long-term challenge. Her internal struggle with food and timeline leading up to her entering an eating disorder treatment center. (3:30) Why it is so prevalent to talk about your relationship with food. (8:34) How she feels brought to life by a challenge and the triggers that came from it. (9:42) The value of unpacking bad behaviors. (12:32) How the internal intrinsic motivations/characteristics that make you excel in so many areas of your life are also the ones that can drive you into mental health disorders. (14:12) What did the process of treatment look like for her? (17:32) Why she chose the treatment program she did and what was the most difficult part about it? (22:57) Were there common things she found that was the underlying issue of the disorder? (28:25) Her advice to parents regarding their own children. (30:18) What has she incorporated into her life since being out of the treatment center? (32:25) Did she share her story to inspire others? (33:45) Does she feel more like herself since going through this process? (36:38) Why no two eating disorders look the same: The importance of NOT making foods off-limits. (41:08) How has she managed her nutrient/hormone levels through this process? (43:47) Making friends with your feelings. (46:22) What has the feedback been from her audience? (48:19) Why we don’t recommend diets, we discuss them. (51:05) How having GOOD relationships is GOOD for your health and wellbeing. (54:05) Why we need a cultural shift around the weight stigma and the feeling of being hungry. (58:08) What foods make her happy now? (1:02:15) What does her current training look like? (1:04:30) Featured Guest/People Mentioned  Amelia Boone (@arboone11)  Instagram Website  Ryan Holiday (@ryanholiday)  Instagram Related Links/Products Mentioned October Promotion: MAPS Anabolic ½ off!! **Code “RED50” at checkout** Mind Pump 630: Amelia Boone- Obstacle Course Racing’s Queen of Pain Amelia Boone Opens Up About Her Eating Disorder Stillness Is the Key - Book by Ryan Holiday The Mind, Explained | Netflix Official Site The health benefits of strong relationships

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go that she came out and talked, I'm publicly about her eating disorder, I know she taught, I know she's written blogs about it, but has she's been on a podcast and actually talked to have a discussion about it. She shares the first time. I don't think so. And you know, we commend her. It's really hard to talk about something this personal and this challenging, especially when you're, you know, people have kind of put you up on a pedestal, you know, she's someone a lot of people look up to in that racing space. And she's been battling issues with food for a very,

very long time. She actually admitted herself to have help. So that's what we talk a lot about in this episode, that whole process, like what started it, when did she first noticed she had problems, why this time she told herself, okay, I need to get help, what that process all looks like, like what does it look like for her to deal with this issue,

how did it affect her training, her workouts, all that stuff. Really, really good episode with anybody who struggles with eating. I think this is a really, really good episode to listen to. Listening to, I mean, just interviewing her and listening to her work, worked us all out and what she's gone through. And I think this is one of those episodes that could really help a lot of people out that may go through something very similar, but don't share talk a lot about it to other people.

Yeah, we really appreciate her for doing this because I know those people out there who listen to the show who maybe struggling with some of these issues themselves. And so it helps to hear someone like Amelia, who's as decorated as she is and is accomplished as she is, struggle with those same issues now you can find her on Instagram at a our boon 11 so it's a our B O O and E 11 she has a nice a good Instagram page. She also has a website a milliaboon racing Dot com again. She's a four-time world champion She's also the athlete that helped us write maps OCR. She had a lot of input, just got second place in that program. Now before that, this episode starts,

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Well, besides the program, we did the OCR together. But the last time we interviewed was like, two years ago about. It's been two years ago. Yeah, because I was thinking about it. It was right after Spartan Race World Championships. That's right. In 2017, because then I had my,

it was where I like, shattered my finger. That's right. So I had my little like, my little split, my pinky was still not sit straight. But I didn'tatter my finger. That's right. So I had my little like, my little splint on my pinky would still not sit straight. But I didn't do my rehab. It's been a long time, yeah. It has been a little while. Now, how are things going for you now?

There's been some stuff that you've talked about on social media and kind of put out there. Let's talk about that for a second. When did you come out and tell everybody, like, here's what's happening. Break that down for us so the audience kind of falls along. Yeah, yeah. So this past winter, I guess, or past spring, I went into a intensive eating disorder treatment

facility. It was a day program. It was, you know, like, 8 a.m. to six p.m. But and then I slipped at home and never, or slept actually I was at my sister's day in in Seattle. But then so I was there for about three months and it was actually in July. So I'd come back to the Bay Area

and come back, started work, everything like that again because I took a leave of absence. And that's when I really kind of made the decision to come out and to talk about it. I think I remember, Sal, actually, we last year in Tahoe, I remember chatting with you about about my history with eating disorder. And I kind of knew at the time, I was thinking at that time that I was not in a good spot, and I needed needed more intensive help but it was kind of like getting back to that spate, getting back to that point where I was like okay yes I'm going to

uproot my life and I'm going to do this. So it was kind of like planning those seeds. So yeah so that was that was the timeline. It was I was there in treatment from about April through the end of June. there in treatment from about April through the end of June. Now, I very strongly related to you when we had first discussed this in Tahoe because I have also dealt with my own body image issues and I'm sure if you went back and examined how I ate, I'm pretty sure I would have, you could have diagnosed me with some eating disorders. And I've worked with lots of people around it It's extremely difficult and personal to talk about and so and but you came out and you and you talked about it

So you're extremely courageous. Well, I would imagine too in in your position because you have so many fucking highs on you I think it's already a tough thing to discuss Yeah, so it's all your family for I mean because I've dealt with tons of clients and that's already, it's very sensitive with just us and family and talking about it. But somebody who's got so much attention on them, I can't imagine the pressure that you felt of having to come out and talk about that. Yeah, but to be totally honest,

I felt worse keeping it in. In that, because I'm not new to this rodeo. It's not like my entire life, I was great and then at the age of 35, I suddenly realized I had an issue with food. I was diagnosed with anorexia when I was 15, 16 years old. And so I was hospitalized as very medically unstable type of hospitalization while I was sophomore in high school.

And I was in the hospital from Thanksgiving to Christmas, then medically stabilized. And then I went through recovery. And recovery is a bit different back in the late 90s. The science around endosortars and the treatment models have evolved since then. And then I kind of, in the last 20 years, went through varying cycles of doing pretty well, and then kind of falling back into it, and then I did a stint in a residential facility after I graduated college. And then really, when I started sports, when I started into athletics, I kind of thought it was like all in my past. I kind of thought like, yeah, I'm in a good spot.

This is in the past, it's kind of there, but not so much anymore. And then as I was winning and I was doing really well, and I was winning world championships, and I knew my relationship with food wasn't great, but I was in the back of my mind. I was like, well, I was winning world championships. And I knew my relationship with food wasn't great, but I was in the back of my mind. I was like, well, I'm winning. And I'm performing really well. And everything seems to be clicking, so it's not really an issue. But then the injury started. And then everything kind of started. And then in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, I'm like, I'm

doing, I'm told myself, I'm doing everything right. I'm not, my mileage is really low. I'm thinking, I'm like, I'm doing, I'm told myself, I'm like, I'm doing everything right, you know, I'm, I'm not like my mileage is really low, like I'm doing all the rehab, I'm doing all the prehab and everything that I should be doing. And I'm like, all my blood work was normal, etc. But I just, I knew in the back of my mind it had to be something that to myself at first, but then also to be able to kind of admit that to others and be like, this is what's going on. Like, I know why I have four stress fractures in three years. I'm clearly not feeding myself appropriately. I just couldn't.

Like, I knew what I needed to do to get back to the sport that I wanted to do and to love and to be there healthily, but I just couldn't get there myself. And you're speaking to a lot of people who struggle with these types of things, especially a lot of young women, is that part of what kind of motivated you to talk about this? Absolutely, I mean, I think that it's, it is so prevalent.

It is so prevalent. And it, and part of the reason why I actually like did not look at doing treatment for a really long time is because I looked around and I was like, the entire world is disordered as shit. Like everybody seems to have issues with food. So maybe I'm just normal. Maybe since we all are fucked up with our relationship with food, why should I do something about it? Because it seems like everybody's on some crazy diet or everyone has issues.

And I actually remember one of my exes telling me, he's like, when I came out to him and I was like, you know, I have this long history with eating his sword and he looks at me and he's like, you have an issue with food. You're not special, so does every other woman. And I was like, great. Okay, so maybe it's not an issue.

But I'm like, no, it is. And it needs to be talked about. What are, for the people listening, what are, because it can be quite insidious, you can really talk yourself out of doing something about it or even identifying it. What are some of the triggers that tend to, let's talk about for you, for example, that you've been treated for this a couple of times. What are the things that kind of push you over where you feel like, okay, now I'm going

a little too far. Is it stress? Is it the feeling of control or is it something else? Yeah, I mean, I will caveat this entire conversation by saying that I'm speaking from my experience of n equals 1 here. So I try not to speak for anybody else who is going through this because the one thing

that I've learned is that, especially with eating disorders of that no two look exactly the same. Everything is different. For me, I've kind of pinned down that it really is very situational in terms of that. I struggled way more when I was injured because I kind of with, I need a challenge. I am driven by challenge in my life. And unfortunately, the food, the being able to withhold food from myself became this weird kind of fucked up challenge in my mind, because to be honest, the vast majority of it was not about shaping my body

to be how like, you know, what I wanted to look like. I literally would look at myself and be like, I don't really care what I look like. I just wouldn't be healthy and running, but then there was this part of me that was just keeping me from being able to do that. And so I think for me in situations where I was injured or where I didn't have anything else,

like a challenge of a race or something else going on in my life, I would fall back to the safety of the safety of of the restriction of food was was that for me. Hmm. So you feel brought to life by challenge. Yes. Oh, I see. When you were younger, um, was it the same thing, same feeling? It was very much, I think so. Yeah. When I when it first started, um, it was almost this kind of like weird game to myself, where I was like, how little can I get by on and things like that. And it just kind of, it spiraled and took a life of its own and what happens. And this is, this is so true.

When you start to limit your world of things that you're comfortable with, so especially with food, if you start restricting, if you start taking out food groups, if you start taking out, then like your world of what's safe gets smaller and smaller, and then it, everything just compresses until eventually you just are scared of everything. And that was really kind of what happened to me. It's like I would go to try and sit down and that was really kind of what happened to me. It's like I would go to try and sit down and eat a meal and I would just be petrified of everything on the plate in front of me.

So when you took the three months off and you were in there, do you have to, I mean, do they have you work on unpacking it all the way to your childhood to where like, where did this all start? Like, what was it was something said to you? Did you see something and then all of a sudden that trigger? Like, did you dive into all that?

Yeah, in various realms, you do. I think a lot of people, what I've kind of come to is that everybody, it would be much, much easier for me to have something to point to in my life and be like, this is the reason why I have an eating disorder. This is the trauma. This is, you know, X, Y, and Z. This is what I went through and because of that, I'm like this. I don't have that. Because honestly, I am extremely fortunate and that I had extremely loving family, a very, very stable family. One where diets were not talked about,

my parents were never on diets, they all had very healthy relationships with food. No one was ever telling me that I needed to change my body. So I believe that there is a lot of value and kind of unpacking and trying to figure out like the origins of it, but at a certain point, I don't think it matters anymore. I mean, I don't think that the reasons

like looking at being able to point to something be like, yes, this is it. For me, I haven't found any type of relief for aha moments. Yeah, I feel like the only value to that is if you can pinpoint things that trigger behavior. Correct. And if you can't, then you're right. It probably doesn't matter that much. It could be anything. Now, Emilia, you're a very accomplished young woman. The job that you do, your education, your sports that you've competed in and succeeded in, were you always like this?

Were you like this as a kid? And what would happen when you would do something and it was amazing, I'm sure lots of praise, when you weren't in a position where you feeling challenged, what did that feel like, or what does that feel like for you? Does it feel lost, do you feel like I have nothing to fight for or towards? Yeah, I think that's actually fair. Thank you just psychologically unpacked me there.

But yeah, I mean, I think that's actually fair. Thank you just psychologically unpacked me there. But yeah, I mean, I think unfortunately, and this is what we see a lot with mental health issues and disorders is that the things, the kind of the internal intrinsic motivations and the characteristics that you have that make you excel in so many areas of your life are also the ones that drive you into like mental health disorders.

And I've actually done quite a bit of work around not trying to demonize my eating disorder because frankly, the things that have brought me a lot of success in life also probably drove that. And so it's kind of like, okay, you are a piece of me, you are a coping mechanism when times got really hard. And I didn't have the tools and the toolbox to be able to cope in better, healthier, quote, unquote, ways. But like, I don't need you anymore. Like I have other tools in the toolkit now.

Yeah, I've the way I've thought of that because I have similar, similar feelings around that, even for myself. And the way I viewed it is that it's this dragon that I'm using and flying to take me where I want to go, but I need to maintain control. If I let go and let the dragon do what it wants, then it'll burn me. It'll kill me. And so it's like, rather than demonizing, it's, okay, this is part of my tools, this is part of what I am. And you are a very successful person.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think you've accomplished quite a bit. So to say, I'm not gonna do that anymore, and I'm just gonna not try to find challenges that sounds like you would have to be a different person. Yeah, and I think that I actually kind of, I've realized I kind of over corrected in certain ways when I was so, so, so focused on challenge and sport and winning.

And then I thought I could kind of morph myself into this person that's like, I just want to love the experience, I don't really care, like I don't care about results and blah, blah, blah, blah. But it never, as much as I do love the process and everything like that, it never really rang true to me. So I kind of was going back and forth between these extremes and now I'm trying to kind of find this middle of where you can sit between that. Because I actually, while I was in treatment up in Seattle,

I remember my therapist who was a D1, D one runner herself, you know, she was very accomplished athlete. And I was talking about racing and winning. And she's like, why is wanting to win a bad thing? And I sat there and I was like, it's such a simple question. And I'm like, well, I guess it's not. It's just how you cope if you don't win, you know? I'm going to define you or identify with like, if I don't win, you know. Don't let it define you or identify. Or don't identify with like, if I don't win, then what am I?

It's okay, but you can definitely go after winning. Yeah. You had talked about how treatments have changed. Would you mind going into kind of what that looks like? Because I feel like the people that I've worked with in the past, and I'm not an expert on this. I'm just a trainer, but I have had clients who have helped direct in terms of who to seek out and find help. One of the big reasons why they, one of the big struggles I've seen in the past is the

fear of what that looks like. Well, what are they going to do? What's this going to look like? Are they going to force me to eat a bunch of food? Or are they going to, you know, what does that process look like for somebody who's like, okay, I think I may have an issue, what are the steps to take and what can they expect to go through? Yeah, that's a really good question. And actually one that I had to think really long and hard about,

because it had been, you know, 10, 15 years since I'd last been through treatment. So I think that things have changed back, when I initially, like 10, 15, 20 years ago, people kind of viewed a recovery from any need to sort or kind of like an addiction model. So there's a lot of 12 step programs, and there was a lot of, you know,

I'm powerless over food and things like that. And that model still can work, but I think that a lot of people realize unlike, I think AA and I think that other 12 sub programs are amazing, amazing tools. I mean, phenomenal. I love the community. But the issue with food is that like unlike alcohol or drugs in which you can just abstain. Right. You have to have, you need food. You have to eat to live. And unfortunately, I feel like we've really lost side of that as a society, and I won't go into that right now,

but you need food to live. And so treating it like an addiction and abstaining from it doesn't really work. So now I think a lot of what it is is learning that all foods are good foods. All foods are, I think it's a big focus now in eating disorder treatment is to let go of like the rules around it. And really kind of this notion of that there is a place for all foods and that any type of time you try and diet, any time you try and restrict,

any time you try and manipulate, like you are actually just only further spiraling and making your relationship with food more chaotic and disordered. So I mean, in terms of actual practical, if somebody's like, okay okay I have an issue, I think I have an issue with food where do I go from here and so I think number one is making calls like said you know I just went to Google and started searching in the sort of treatment facilities

you know the Bay Area beyond things like that and generally like you'll kind of start I knew I needed a higher level of care, because I knew that I was trying to do it on my own and it wasn't working. But for most people, it's make a call, find a therapist who specializes in new disorders, find a dietician who has certification in eating disorders, and then kind of,

like go from there and feel out how much support you need. And you know, it could be you once a week appointments with your therapist, with your dietician, or there are, you know, programs that are like three hours a day for a few times a week and you have some meal support and things like that. So there's all different levels and structures. I'm glad you said that because you can definitely go at your own pace. Because it can be very scary to think, oh my gosh, I'm going to seek out help.

Now I got to change. Right. And tackle everything, which can be terrifying. Now for you, when you went to Seattle, this was like, you're there for three months, right? Yeah, so I knew, yeah, I mean, I was there. I didn't know how long I was going to be there, but it's very much like, okay, I'm committing to this program. And then it's very much like, okay, I'm committing to this program, and then it's kind of open-ended.

So yeah, I took a leave of absence from work and everything like that. And I understand like I'm fortunate to have the luxury of a job where I'm, you know, have coverage, short-term disability, where I can take a leave of absence, but yeah, I was there. Okay, and then what is that, can you tell? I mean, I have no experience with someone who's been to something like that.

So what are your days look like? Is it like all counseling? I mean, are you meeting in groups? Like what does it look like there? Yeah, it's a lot of talking about your feelings. And I know it was, I'm laughing. Yeah, it is, I mean, it was 10 hours a day for me. And this was, so it was 8 a.m. to 6 p.m.

And we would do all of our meals and snacks there. So it was together. Together? Together, oh, yeah. So it was a group of, there were about, I think there was a cap of like 12 people that could be in the full day patient. So it was a very, it was a very small group.

And so we would do all of our meals together there, all of our snacks there together. And then it was different programs during the day. It was different groups. So there was always like a process group where we did, where we talked about things and emotions that were coming up. And then there was groups around exploring your relationship

with movement and with exercise, there were groups around learning about health at every size, learning about intuitive eating. So it was, yeah, it was a very, and then there were things where we'd do like restaurant outings and meal outings to kind of like- Now, did you choose this place because you saw that they were more geared towards athletes or that there's something like some therapist on staff sort of had something similar that they can relate with you.

Yeah, there were a few factors in it. I really wanted a program that understood athletes because another thing that I was used to in my treatment back when I was in high school and then when I did a residential treatment, was that exercise and movement is just cut off forbidden, like you're not allowed to move. And I kind of knew for me that that was not realistic and I wanted to actually really explore my relationship with running and sport and to figure out if that was part of the disorder, if it was making my disorder worse, if it was actually a healthy outlet for me, like I really needed to unpack that relationship

and I feel like, so that's why I was looking for a program that really specialized in that and then where there were people who they weren't gonna say, like no, you can't do this. And so actually part of one of my therapist would go on runs with me. And we would talk about what I was feeling and talk about like why I was doing

and what is it that's motivating me? What was the most difficult part about it? I think, I mean, there are a number of things, but really it is when you kind of, when you eliminate all the distractions from your life. So when you eliminate your coping mechanisms of staying super busy, of distracting, or if I, you know, I took away my coping mechanisms of being able to restrict food to feel better about myself. What happens is like all of your emotions come up and you just have to sit with them.

And it's very interesting for me because I always joked about how I like, I don't have feelings or I don't have emotions, but really I was just like tamping them down and suppressing them all. And they just flooded back. have feelings or I don't have emotions, but really I was just like tamping them down and suppressing them all. And they just flooded back. And all of a sudden, like I was just a sobbing crime mess

at everything and I was just feeling everything. But for the first time, it actually was phenomenal because I was actually getting in touch with what I was feeling. Like I was actually feeling I was not just thinking about feeling, I was actually feeling, I was not just thinking about feeling, I was actually feeling. And so I think that was like really, really hard,

but when you learn, like when difficult emotions come up, what's amazing is that they pass. I was so scared that a difficult emotion would come up and like it would just never go away and it would be like stuck in that emotion. But no, it was like never go away and it would be stuck in that emotion. But no, it was after a while, it just, it goes. And then the next one pops up. So yeah.

Was there a moment in the three months where you felt like you personally had a major breakthrough? Like was there kind of like an aha or a like, oh my God, that, you felt like you could see the light of the theme of the tunnel at one point? You know, I don't think I wish there was one big aha moment, but there were definitely kind of like ebbs and flows. And there were, there would be really, really good days.

And then I would have really, really bad days. And, and it was just, it was just kind of this world when I think that very much what I kind of needed to prepare myself for is that it gets worse before it gets better. And so what I think that's very common is that you feel like, okay, I'm going in treatment, I'm seeking help and it's only gonna go out from here. Oh no, you start to go through really difficult stuff when you take away your coping mechanisms.

That's why you have that support around you. Yeah, especially if you're afraid of feeling, it's like now you're gonna feel. Now you're gonna feel. Now you're gonna feel. And by the way, that's super common. I think everybody's afraid of feeling bad feelings, but the only way to get them to get at it is to feel them.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. When you would, whether it was ever a moment during that process where you're like, yeah, I don't think I can do this anymore. Every, every single day. And at least the, I mean, after the first day, I almost packed up and packed up my car and drove back down to say, I'm gonna say, because I was also very much like, I remember them being like, yes,

and this is what you're gonna eat and things like, and I was like, uh, no, like what are, I'm an athlete. Like, what, what do you mean? Like, why would are, I'm an athlete, like what do you mean? Like why would you, why would I be drinking orange juice and eating cheesecake? Like these are things that, you know, like I just, I couldn't wrap my brain around, around that and I just was like, no you don't understand, you don't understand.

And but I had to go through that kicking and screaming phase. Now because you're so driven by challenge, were you able to apply that to this process? Yeah, so what it was actually the best thing is as I was able to, and it took a while, but kind of shift that thinking of the challenge of that I'm like, okay. Well, so for me, it used to be the disorder

was like the challenge would be to see like would be to see how little I could eat or how little I could goodbye on. Now the challenge is to think of the hardest and the scariest thing to do, which is probably the super scary food to eat and to do that. And so I've been able to flip that, but it takes some constant work. Now I know everybody's unique in this,

and every story is different, but do you notice that are there some common behaviors, or do they think like the sneaking of food, or the avoiding certain things, or running straight to the bathroom, or a motion coming up after meals? Are there some common things, are there some common things that you've found

with other people? What's really interesting, and something that I did not expect, is that eating disorders, they take all different forms. And so there's anorexia and bulimia and binge eating disorder, compulsive overeating. There's an entire spectrum. Some people don't fit clearly into one or the other. And actually what's incredible is that the same language, like that I could be in a room

and talking to somebody who had a completely, who maybe more struggled with compulsive overeating, but we would have a very common kind of feeling underlying it. And then the other thing too, and this would became very, very aware of for me, because at Opal, at my treatment facility, there were people in all different sizes of bodies. And that actually, you know, some of the clients who were in much, much larger bodies actually were restricting probably

just as much as I was, it's just that their bodies look totally different, and that was even probably even harder for them, and that was very, very cognitive, like a very kind of light bulb moment for me, where I started to realize that, like, weight and, you know, how your body looks isn't entirely within your control.

And I think that's really important. There's a large part of it that isn't within your control. Nonetheless, identifying strongly with your body. That's a recipe for failure. I find it really interesting too that you, in my experience, most of the people that have gone through something similar, they actually normally have like some serious childhood trauma and you talk about having a really good childhood.

So, you know, what was that like? What has that been like for your family and your parents? I mean, I'm assuming they obviously knew, they've known since you were, and then as you've gotten older, are they constantly been in the back of your head saying things to you when you were running and doing things like that, or have they just kind of hands off, let you be your own woman and figure it out yourself, what has that been like?

Yeah, my parents have, I mean, I've only come to appreciate recently how hard it must have been for them watching me go through all this. They've been very much, very hands off. Like they were never going to, they were never gonna push me into anything. You know, they're like, you're an adult, like you make your own decisions.

We're here, we love and support you. When I called them up and I was like, I'm going into treatment, they're like, oh, you know, and they're like, we love and support you. But it wasn't something that were like, where it was kind of like on their radar. But, and but I think that the thing that I kind of, that I understand and appreciate now, and you know, I'm not a parent, so I can't,

so I can't identify with this is that like they probably felt like they were doing something wrong. And because they were watching their daughter like starver self-to-death and they didn't know what to do. And I just wanted to say to them, I was like, it's, you're not doing anything wrong. Like sometimes I don't know if it's genetics, we just all get a little bit fucked up in the head. But like some, and so parents have reached out to me and been like, what can I do to make sure my child doesn't develop an eating disorder? And I'm like, model good relationships with food, like don't champion diets,

like don't withhold food from them. I was like, but sometimes you can do everything right and your child is still going to have a problem, you know? No, completely. 100%. What things now, since you've been back from Seattle, are there things that you started to have implemented into your life that are new now? Like that are like, I mean, we were just talking off air before this. We're talking about Ryan Hall Day's new book about stillness.

Are you incorporating meditation or there are certain things that you're doing to check in? Like are there new things in your life since you've been out? Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that I've realized is that I need to set up. When you go from a highly structured environment where you have like 10 hours of your day that are like fully structured and you have all the support and at any given moment, you can pull a therapist's side

and just ball your eyes out and work through stuff and then you come back to real life and you're like, oh wait, life is not like that. And so I was really setting up guardrails and support system. And so for me, and this is really big for me, is reaching out to people and setting up, you know, people to go to meals with, people, you know, just to check in. And so I've been very much more just to check in. And so I've been very much more cognizant of the fact that disorder thrives in silence and aloneness and in shame. And so the more that I can surround myself, the more that I can create like a community, that you know, like the the less space there is for a tide. Have you found that sharing this with your audience,

doing stuff like this, have you found this to be therapeutic for you? Absolutely. I mean, I hate to say that it's a selfish endeavor that people ask me like, why did you share as it to inspire other people? And I'm like, yes, but I mean, honestly, the vast majority is very therapeutic

for myself to be able to talk through these things and learn things. And then I learn things from other people who then reach out to me and share their stories. And I think that it just in some ways that helps you to not feel so alone. I think it makes it sometimes you'll have a problem or an issue. And by telling other people, it makes it real. You know, when you keep it to yourself, it's like, eh, maybe not. Maybe that's not really an issue or whatever.

But then I told my best friend, okay, now they know I'm anxious or depressed or whatever. A big part of of treating destructive type behaviors is in the past has been a spiritual practice. Have you incorporated anything like that for yourself? Yeah. I mean, I think it's so I was born and raised Catholic, which we won't get into. But I mean, I, I know, I, God, no, no, I don't want to offend anybody with religious stuff. But yeah, so I think for me, it is very much just a practice of being aware and being present,

and meditation and stillness, and things like that are very, are very important to me. And, you know, I, whatever your spiritual practice or whatnot, I think it is very important to kind of like hold space for that. Have you already had to use some of the tools that you acquired while you were up in Seattle, like, you know, caught yourself getting ready

to maybe slip back on a behavior or something where you, and you're like, oh, fuck, that's, this could be leading to this. Have you ever had to use it? Absolutely. And here's the thing. And so a part of me in sharing this, like with a lot of people,

is also strange accountability mechanism. Totally. I mean, in a weird way, because now I have like thousands of lot of people is also strange accountability mechanism. Totally. I mean, in a weird way, because now I have thousands of thousands of people who can keep me accountable. But I also am aware that that can create and pressure that I have to do recovery perfectly. That I have to be doing X, Y, and Z perfectly

and then be this recovery model. And so I'm really, really telling myself, giving myself grace that I have slips, I have days where I don't eat all of the things that I know I should be eating, but just because I slipped, it doesn't mean that I failed. And then, just toss everything out

and all the progress that I made is now, like back it, just starting from square one. Because that used to be my mindset. And so now, like back it, you know, like just starting from square one, you know, because that used to be my mindset. And so now I'm just like, you know, no, like today wasn't a great day, but tomorrow can be a better day, you know, and it's gonna be very, very up and down and it's gonna be that way for a long time, I'm sure. Now going through this therapy,

were you able to kind of visualize like what, like who you're gonna be going forward and did that change your identity all in terms of like admitting this and then, you know, being super competitive is that gonna change at all or like how are you gonna kind of move forward with this? Yeah, I've wrestled with that a lot. I mean, I feel like now I feel like more my authentic self. I remember the day after I posted my blog and I went for a run the next day and I just

remember just feeling like, oh wait, like a thousand pound weight that I could finally be myself. But then reality starts to like seep in and then I was like, oh wait, now people may be judging me for my actions because like people like, should you be running while you're in recovery for it and eating disorder? And I'm like, wait, can I now, can I talk about being an athlete and running? And but I've just come to this point where I'm like,

somebody said another client in a group, my first day in treatment, said something offhand, and she goes, you know, your path. And I wrote it down and kind of stuck with me because I realized that my recovery journey, my path to health and myself is not going to look like somebody else's. And no two peoples are going to be this way.

So I'm just, I hold that statement in my mind and know like really what feels authentic to me and then to go with that and to try and, and I know there'll be chatter and noise that, you know, what I'm doing isn't necessarily right or everybody has an opinion. But if it works for me. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm so glad that they were open to talking to you about your exercise because workouts can definitely be tools of therapy. Even if your problem has to do with either body and major food, it can be a very effective therapy for some people, and some people it can be a negative tool. I can only imagine if you had stopped working out on top of doing the stuff with food, how difficult that is.

I'd imagine that's a very fine dance for you. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that you have that right now where you're like, okay, I want to run, but then do I need to punish myself, Ron, or do I just run to be therapy? I can use food now as fuel primarily. Right. Yeah. Well, it is kind of an interesting.

So one of the things that I have learned and that what we came to realize is actually my relationship with movement has been very healthy. Like when I ask people, like, how do I know if my relationship with movement is healthy? And granted, I'm not an expert, but this is what I've learned, so I will share my thoughts on it. It's really, it's being curious about your motivations behind it. Like, do you compensate in food if whether or not you are able to work out that day? You know, does your opinion of yourself change, like based on, like, were you hitting a certain goal time for your runs and things like that?

Or like, like, in looking forward to, if you have, you know, a workout or a run that day, are you looking forward? Are you jazzed about? Are you excited about it? Or are you dreading it? And if you're dreading it, why are you still forcing yourself to do it? And like, so it's very being curious about those motivations and intentions. And for me, it's always been like, I wake up in the morning, so fucking pumped that I get to run.

Like so excited. And it's never been about the time on the watch or the calories burned. And it's not about the food around it. It's just being out there with nature and being just about that. But I think for some people, they see movement as punishment. They're like, well, fuck, I ate too much of that day

and now I need to go like spend an hour and a half on the elliptical. That's not fun, you know? Do you, is your mind most still when you're running and working out? It's funny because in some ways it's still and in some ways it is also very like that's when I work through a lot of things in my mind. Because you're still. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're still. You can't work through hard things when your mind is in the future, in the past, all over the place. It's only when it's still.

That's what I found out. Well, in terms of your eating, what were the foods that you were most afraid of? Have you been able to eat those foods now? Yeah. It's a funny question. As it's talking about how nobody knew to eating disorders looked the same, is that I actually, because people were, people's big question was always like, but what about the pop-darts?

Were you actually eating the pop-darts? And I was like, actually, yes, my, I didn't fit into like an orthorexia type of, you know, like the fear of like, the fear of that. I was actually the opposite. The vast majority of my food was like, what we would call, quote unquote, junk food

and processed food and candy. It was like, if I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna eat the things that are like the tastiest and the best. So I actually, it was like harder for me to sit down to eat a meal of, you know, like mashed potatoes and chicken or something like that because I was like, well, if I'm gonna eat it, man,

I wanna eat like a bowl ice cream, not like these good. So mine is totally, totally different. But yeah, I think that now, the biggest thing for me is actually feeling how much better I feel in my, like at my body feels when I'm actually properly nourishing it and just in terms of like recovery and just like, you know, from workouts and things like that. And so like I still have, I'm always going to have like a sweet tooth

and be that type of person, but it is very interesting in terms of once we, when you stop making foods off limits and things like that, you allow for food abundance and you allow for everything to be a part of your when you stop making foods off limits and things like that, you allow for food abundance and you allow for everything to be a part of your palate, then things become less scary, for sure. Is there a part of you that's like, oh, okay, I performed really good

when I wasn't eating that good. Now, I can't wait to see what I can do. There's a part of me and that gives me hope. That actually really gives me hope. But I have to admit that my biggest thing is I still feel like I'm working through almost a lot of, I hate to use the word PTSD, but fear about my body breaking just because it's been a pattern for me. And for so many years, and these past few years, I'll run healthily for a little bit. And then bam, another bone will break. And then bam, another bone broke break. And I've kind of gone through this grieving process of thinking of like, you know,

have I really just destroyed my body beyond repair, like even if I feed it properly now, like am I still, is it too little too late? But I don't know. Have they identified the mechanistic reasons behind those breaks where they're mineral density, test done, and maybe hormones? Yeah. I mean, I'm in classic relative energy deficiency in sport. It reds us type of, I am your model. So my bone density is actually it's lower, but it's been stable and it's pretty normal, but I, and I think we talked about this in the last podcast,

I wasn't in my period for a good 10, 15 years, and I didn't know because I had an IUD, but I'm sure in back, if I really wanted to be honest with myself, I knew, but I started seeing an ecronologist in like 2016 and they started running tests and they're like, yeah, you have zero estrogen, zero estrogen. And, you know, and so I think that in looking, I mean, I know that that had to be just underfueling.

Yeah, that's connected to fractures and whatnot. Absolutely, absolutely. And so in trying to bring the estrogen back into the realm, and that comes through proper nutrition. And also, and the other thing is tapering down activity levels too. And that mainly, it comes in the form of like, like easy movement, but not like super high heart rate.

Like, when you stress your body and like you, all the cortisol and everything like that, then that is actually going to signal to a female body that it's in a state where it should not be producing children. So that's when the estrogen supply goes away. So for anyone who's out there who's struggling with trying to regain periods for sure, like very high intensity, very high volume type of movement

is going to have a negative impact on that. Because your body thinks that it's in a time of stress where it shouldn't have kids. Yeah, did they discuss hormone therapy or are you keeping this natural and seeing if you can get things to come back through just through nutrition? Yeah, so I started on actually an estrogen patch and as kind of like a tide me over, I guess. And I... There's some acute health issues that you want. Yeah, and that's what that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, so that was just, you know, do some exogenous estrogen while my body like goes to this and then hopefully it will start naturally producing it on its own. Now, what are some of the changes that you've noticed since you've gone on the estrogen patch but also started to change nutrition. I'm assuming eating more, eating more of different foods. What have you noticed in terms of how you feel physically

and both mentally and emotionally? I think, well, what's funny is I actually feel when you restrict, when you don't feed yourself properly, you also like, I think it's, for me I always found like, I just, I felt empty and hollow, but that was kind of like a safe place.

Like I wasn't really feeling feelings. Like I was actually very kind of even keel because I guess I was just kind of like a shell. And now I actually have so many emotions, like all the time, which is, I don't know, like a blessing or a curse, but I just am very much more like up and down, but that's my nature.

And that's how I was as a very little kid. I was a very temperamental little kid. I was very fiery. And I think I spent many, many years trying to beat that out of myself. And I'm kind of, I'm coming mental little kid, I was very fiery. And I think I spent many, many years trying to beat that out of myself. And I'm kind of, I'm coming in the back with the point where like now I feel that again, and recognizing like, no, that can be a good thing, you know?

Oh, are you trying to make friends with your feelings? Right, I'm totally making friends with my feelings. Yeah, I watched a short documentary on, it was on anxiety and they had some monks on there discussing mindfulness and they did some studies, you should probably, you should check this one, it's called mind explained on Netflix if you haven't seen it. And they showed that monks felt just as much pain when they were going through tests as other people, but they felt it, they perceived it as far less unpleasant. And the reason being is they make peace with what they're feeling. They make friends with it.

So one of the guys on there's like, I already had terrible anxiety attacks and then I just started working on mindfulness. I still feel it, it goes, but I'm friends with it. So it doesn't affect me in the same way anymore. So it's kind of this interesting practice. What's your feedback been from your audience about coming out and talking about all these different things?

Has it been mostly positive? Absolutely, mostly positive. And I'm very, very thankful for that clearly. I think that I am aware of the clearly, we're all super aware of that very small negative percentage. That tends to disagree with you. Sure, I'm sure you guys understand this. But I think it is also.

We call them idiots. Right. But it is very acute for me being in the sports world and being where I am, and especially trying to navigate a culture that is so consumed with diet mentality and wellness, mentality and wellness culture. And I'll be totally honest, even in talking to you guys, I have issues with the fact that some, you guys promote programs about cutting your body to look a certain way and promoting certain diets

and talking about that, and that gives me pause, because part of me is like, well, that's, they're feeding the diet mentality, feeding the wellness culture, and that's hard for me because I'm very much in this bubble where I'm like, health at every size and intuitive eating and all diets are bad and you shouldn't diet and trying to shape your body is a bad thing, et cetera, et cetera. And so it is kind of this strange area for me to kind of navigate.

And I'm sure that as I go through this, I'll figure out how I feel all about it. I'm glad you, I'm very, very happy that you actually said what you said, because I don't think the key is to avoid things. And I also don't think the key is to obsess about things. I think the key is to be okay with talking about things, not feel obsessed by them, not identify with them. It's like self-image versus body image.

You can have an objective body image. I can look in the mirror and say, my right leg is shorter than my left leg, for example, or I don't have nice looking delts or whatever. Maybe not even judge it, maybe just be very objective. But that doesn't mean my self image has to change. I'm still a good, I'm still a human. I still deserve respect and I'm still a good person. And so I think it's important that we still talk

about these things but talk about them in ways where they're, you know, we're not encouraging people to identify. Thank you. We're all trying to like find our most authentic self. And so I appreciate, yeah, like going through that process, you're trying to get closer to that. And then also, like how we can benefit ourselves

and be in more healthy state, so all these things work better. And I think that, you know, the end goal is really to just have people find that path where they can find themselves and be optimal and be healthy. Well, this is actually why we actually, we actually don't recommend diets. We discuss all of them. Right, you discuss them.

Right. And when we discuss them, one of the things that we try, and I think we are a part of this industry that likes to, you know, create camps of my diet is better than your diet. And that's one of the things that we, I think pride ourselves on is trying to destroy all those barriers and help people understand that, you know, the ketogenic diet, if you have certain issues, may be the right diet to help you.

If you're somebody who's completely opposite of that, the vegan diet might be, they all, it's not like, and honestly, this is something we talk about all time too, is that diets are made up fucking word. Yeah. It's all made up. This is all made up shit. Right.

So these people that try and get in these camps and say, my way is better the other way, that it's all bullshit, all of it is. It's really about having a better relationship with food yourself and understanding what your body needs. Yeah. To Salis Point, you don't have to, you don't have to look at yourself and say, I need to eat a certain way to look a certain way. I think that's something that I think that's what's propelled us

in this space is that we have a different voice when we talk about food and exercise and working out and all that stuff. I think in our space, we have more disorder, exercise disorders and more eating disorders than in the general population. Oh my God. Abs, yeah. We're the worst.

Oh, the fitness and wellness and health space has got the worst. Yeah. I mean, every trainer that's ever worked with me has had issues with food. It's what motivated most of it. And that's what we share. It motivated me to work with it. All of us. I mean, you know, what,

that the irony in all of it is all these kids and people that are looking up and aspire to be like these, you know, model looking physiques and shit don't realize that most of those people that have had that much success with their physique or training is because they have some sort of a fucked up relationship with it. Oh, absolutely.

And that's why I, you know, and that's why when people ask me, and it happened to me on the street the other day, a woman came up to me and was like, you have an incredible body. What do you do? And I go, I'm in recovery for an eating disorder. You straight told her that like that. Yeah, and that's what I've been doing lately.

Good for you. And I mean, I- How do I respond to you? Yeah, so I've had a very number of response. Most of them are like, uh, right. And so when I hate, and I mean, pardon me, kind of feels bad because they see it as a compliment, but like, I'm really on this mission that we just need to stop complimenting people's bodies or stop focusing on people's bodies because you can,

I have looked, quote unquote, fit a shit and I have been injured and disordered. And then I know some of the people who can go out there and crush and perform well and they may not have the physique that everybody aspires to, but they are in a way healthier spot. Totally. And here's a big one that we think we completely forget, especially in fitness, the emotional component, the relationships you have with people in yourself, is a massive part of your health. We all focus on working out and diet, and we forget about the other big parts of health.

In fact, there was a study that I covered a few podcasts ago that showed that having bad relationships in your life, or not having close relationships in your life, is as bad for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Oh, yeah. And having good relationships and having a good, emotional and mental well-being is better for your health on its own than compared to just exercise or just diet.

Has through this process, how have your relationships improved because you're working through this process or have they changed at all? Absolutely. I mean, I think my relationships, I've really what I've been trying to do is focus on, like focus on the quote unquote people that matter, like the people that I've known forever, like the people that have had my back, you know,

and quiet the noise, you know, to quiet, everything like that. And honestly, as much as I say that my, the impetus, as much as it would be easy for me to say that the impetus behind me seeking treatment was because of injuries and wanting to be healthy and get back to sport, honestly, it was more so I could be fully present in relationships.

Because I, for better or worse, food is a very social part of our culture as it should be. And I found myself shutting down and closing off from relationships because I didn't want to be in situations around food. Or I couldn't even be present with people because I was fucking starving.

You know, like I could not be, like, physically present with a person because my mind was obsessing about food. And so, like a huge part of this was for me to like be able to be present and to build better relationships. When you were in past relationships, were you able to disguise this or were you upfront about it? With like, I'm like picturing you on a date, you know? I want to take you to dinner and we go have a big steak dinner.

What are you like that? Are you being open about it? Are you hiding like how's that part out? I mean, it depends on the, like, it's the first date I normally probably would hide now. Now I've got nothing. I'm pretty sure a first date, I do probably would hide now. Now I got nothing. I'm pretty sure a first date, I knew first and would know. But I mean, it was a lot of white knuckling. So it was

a lot of that I could kind of fake it, I could find it kind of fake it, but like internally I was a mess, absolute mess. But I mean in longer longer term relationships, and you know, and I had a series of long term relationships, like they knew. And I would tell them I was how my significant other. But I think that they've very much also just like kind of like my parents felt helpless because they could pick up on things and see me kind of like slowly killing myself and not know how to do about that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I commend you on your courage

for doing this. I know you've helped a lot of people. There's a lot of people that follow you and sometimes what you need to make that next step is to hear one of your heroes say, hey, you know, this is what I'm doing too. Are you at the point yet where you feel okay, eating with friends or is that still

something you try and do on your own at the moment? No, no, absolutely. I love, I mean, I'm part of, it's still a bit more nerve-wracking for me to eat with others, just because now I also feel like there are eyes on me. I'm watching you. Right, sure, right. Um, but it's, it's almost like that is the part of going through recovery that has been

like that is so important for me to have back to be able to the night before, you know, erase or things like that to be able to go out and eat with the other athletes, you know, and to be able to be part of those social situations. So that's been really important for me. Excellent. How are you feeling right now? You feeling pretty strong and hopeful? I'm feeling really good.

You look great. You do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you said don't compliment whatever. Don't talk about my body. No, your energy. Yes, yes. You're glowing.

Yes, confidence in everything. Yes, phenomenal. And when we talked about this in Tahoe two years ago, you and I had an off camera kind of discussion about this. And at that moment, I was like, and I think I told you, I said, you have, this is a book or this is something you need to tell other people because you, you know, you're a high performing athlete, a woman, a lot of other girls and young girls look up to, and so you're in this unique position

to help a lot of people in a space that needs it. And it's more common than people think. It's super common. Yeah, it's super common. I mean, it's actually just heartening almost to me how common it is, because it feels almost in a way overwhelming. It's like, okay, this is so pervasive.

How do we fix this? And I really think, I mean, it's a lot of what you guys do, like talking around the culture, like trying to dismantle these myths. And it's, but we need a cultural shift. And what we, what we need is a cultural shift that stops, like to be honest, the huge thing that's hurting us all is the weight stigma, is people looking at,

people in larger bodies, and being like, that's undesirable and whatnot. And then so everyone is fearful of, quote unquote, being fat, and then this is the self perpetuating thing that happens. And so it's gonna have to require this very fundamental culture shift. Well, you said something earlier that is key. And we position it slightly different,

not different in the sense that your point is wrong. Your point is absolutely right, but we position it in a little bit of different way. You said, you know, there's no foods that are bad and they all have value. That's 100% true. The key is understanding the value of each food and knowing that some foods, you, okay,

it's okay to know that some foods are not gonna fuel my body for my workout. I'm eating a cupcake. It might not be the best food for my muscle building goals or whatever. It may not be the best food for my gut microbiome, but it's my daughter's birthday. Yeah.

And right now this food is amazing for my soul. Exactly. Right now I'm connecting with the family around me. It's also learning how to value ourselves and take care of ourselves. It's funny, I've worked with a lot of clients who've had similar issues, and it's funny because oftentimes they pass them down to their kids,

but sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're excellent with their children. And I've had conversations with them and said, how can you take care of your child so differently than yourself? This is why I love my kid. So it's about loving yourself. Like as if you were taking care of somebody cared about.

It's actually a really simple concept. It's just difficult for people to do consistently. And one of the things that I think helped me when I was coaching clients through stuff like this is that stop connecting the food to how you look, forget all about that, and connect to all the other things that it serves your skin, your hair, your sleep, your energy levels. Your emotions? Your emotions. Yeah, most all those things.

That's one thing that I've actually learned. So a huge thing for me is that I think that we have demonized having an appetite in this culture, especially, is that like, you know, that it's, you should suppress your appetite. You shouldn't listen. If your hunger is a bad thing, like you shouldn't listen to your hunger. And like, if you ignore your hunger, then you're better. And you're like, when did having an appetite become bad thing? It's because it's marketed, it's an uncomfortable feeling.

Just like sad, is an uncomfortable feeling. And so we're marketing to people to suppress or to ignore. But it's a normal feeling, you need to have it. It's okay to feel hungry sometimes. It's okay to be sad sometimes. It's like giving everybody antidepressants. No, you can never feel sad. What you get is a post to. Yeah. You're supposed to sometimes. Sometimes sadness is a good thing. What foods make you happy now or what foods bring life to you now? Are there any yet?

Yeah, no, there are tons. And it's funny. And I go through phases because now it's really like I'm really kind of connecting to when I think about like what I'm gonna eat for that day I'm like, okay, like what really sounds good right now? And I go through waves of where like for right now like I've been eating a lot of Little Debbie oatmeal cream pies, which probably like let's talk nutritionally. Are they going to like, I mean, yes, nutritional profile, not great. But emotionally, it like connects me back. So when I was in seventh grade, I used to eat one every school day at lunch. I would buy one at the counter, like 50 cents or something like that.

And it's like, for me now, it's also just connecting foods like emotions and like, and how I was before all of this started, and experiencing kind of like that freedom. And then I'll go in waves. And then noticing that other day is like, I don't want an oatmeal cream pie. I want a really big salad, you know, and kind of just like going through that

and understanding that, like I remember talking to my, my dietician when I was at Opal, and I was like, but I was like, I'm afraid, I'm like, all I want right now is cereal and I'm afraid that if I just keep eating cereal, like I'm just never gonna stop, like, stop, all I'm gonna want is like cereal for the rest of my life.

And she's like, eat as much cereal as you want and like, eventually you probably want something else. And so that's, I went through this phase where it was just like, cereal the time. And then I was like, okay, moving on to something now. You know, because when you've spent so long, like, okay, moving on to something now. Because when you've spent so long, like forbidding yourself to eat something and then you like allow yourself then and then it's amazing actually how the body then when you cue into it.

Yeah, because it becomes an obsessive thought and you got to break that cycle. It's like if someone has an obsessive fear, they'll tell the person is, okay, well, live out that fear through your mind. Live it all the way out. Yeah, it's different. And then it'll oftentimes stop, which is true. I mean, I think exposure therapy is huge because whenever you have something that's super massive scary and then you do it, you sit with the discomfort.

You realize it's not so that so bad. And you do it again next time it's a little less scary. And it works for so many things, well beyond eating disorders. How is your physical performance now? Are you noticing any improvements in physical performance or the way you feel because your nutrition is? Yeah, I mean, I just feel, I have, so I, energy was never really an issue for me,

but more just like my bot, all like the tendons and ligaments and everything like that. Everything just feels better, you know? It's hard to, I feel stronger in terms of just being able to, you know, like be out there and just like, just like physical strength and whatnot. So yeah, it's like nothing that I can super quantify because I really don't keep metrics. But it is just kind of a feeling, I guess. Are you more or less the same amount of strength training

where you are with your strength training right now? Yeah, so I'm pretty, I'm actually a bit more. So I've really focused and that's more, and I, so here's the thing, I only advocate doing movement that you enjoy, except there are, and I hate strength training. But, so it's the thing, I only advocate doing movement that you enjoy, except there are, and I hate strength training. But so it's hard, but I realize that it's sometimes there are movements that you need to do

to stay healthy to do other things. So that's like for me, I'm like, if I have an hour, I'd rather go for a run. But if I have an hour, I know that doing some like heavy strength training will actually be more beneficial for me in the long term. So, yeah, definitely doing that, especially for bone density. Yeah, the best thing you could do. Well, Amelia, thank you for coming on and talking about this to our audience.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Always a good time with you. Always. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps and a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic.

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