Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1420: Counting Calories Makes You Fat With Max Lugavere

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin speak with good friend Max Lugavere about why counting calories may actually be making you fat. Don’t put Max in a corner! (2:50) Why the public health crisis will not be solved by math and spreadsheets. (6:00) The importance of learning good habits and behaviors first. (10:34) Why you don’t want to rely on your will power to reach your ultimate body composition. (12:20) Are you metabolically obese? (18:14) How much do micronutrients play into obesity? (21:00) What’s the deal with sugar? (22:06) What are the best satiety macronutrients? (22:37) The theory why you eat more when you are sleep deprived. (25:00) Why you must remove “I CAN’T” from your vocabulary. (26:55) Eat more protein! (30:15) The differences, nutrient wise, between grass-fed versus grain-fed meat/conventional versus pasture-raised eggs & MORE. (32:16) The value of novelty. (37:26) The benefits of the Mediterranean diet. (39:05) What makes the oil unhealthy? (42:25) The order of operations of getting back on a healthy eating track. (48:38) Why low-carb trumps low fat. (54:13) The skinny on time of day eating. (57:44) Max’s go-to processed foods. (59:54) Max’s staple meals. (1:01:55) Support Max by buying his books! (1:04:11) Featured Guest/People Mentioned  IG: @maxlugavere Website: Max Lugavere Podcast: Genius Life Bill Campbell, PhD (@billcampbellphd)  Instagram Related Links/Products Mentioned November Promotion: MAPS Ultimate At-Home Workout Bundle for Only $99.99 Researchers: How Does Posting Calories Affect Behavior? Ultra-Processed Diets Cause Excess Calorie Intake and Weight Gain: An Inpatient Randomized Controlled Trial of Ad Libitum Food Intake Going Nuts for Calories! Mind Pump #1220: The 4 Best Sources Of Protein Why do we Need Protein? - Mind Pump Blog Oil-Free Vegan Diet: Beneficial or Extreme? Grapeseed Oil Market Share Statistics 2019-2025 Forecasts Like Sweetgreen? Avoid this Toxic Ingredient — Max Lugavere The Minnesota Coronary Survey Endangered Species Chocolate Visit Paleo Valley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code “Mindpump15” at checkout for 15% discount** Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources

Hey, look, if you like Mind Pump if you're a fan of Mind Pump and you want to be on our show and you own one of our maps, workout programs, email us at admin at rhinopros.com, that's rh-i-n-o-p-r-o-s.com. Make sure you put in the subject line I want to be on the show. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, There's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You are listening to Mind Pump the World's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast.

In this episode, we talked to one of our favorite guests, the author of the Genius Foods book and the Genius Life, Max Lugavir. He's actually the host of the Genius Foods book and the Genius Life Max Lugavir. He's actually the host of the podcast, the Genius Life podcast. Now in this episode, we talk about why counting calories and even counting macros can make you fat. So we know you're going to love this episode. We cover a lot of topics. If you're somebody who's struggling with fat loss or your health, your counting calories, counting macros, not working for you or you're somebody who's struggling with fat loss or your health, your counting calories, counting macros, not working for you or you're thinking about doing those things, you will not want to miss this episode with Max Lugavier.

By the way, I've been a regular guest on his podcast. I'm going to be getting on there again soon. Make sure you go check them out. The Genius Life podcast. You could also find max on Instagram at max Luga Vier, Luga Vier spelled L-U-G-A-V-E-R-E. Also this month we're doing a huge promotion on our at-home workout programs. This is our holiday ultimate at-home bundle. This includes maps anywhere and maps suspension. Both programs require minimal equipment.

So maps anywhere requires resistance bands, a broomstick, and your body weight, full body workout, great for building muscle burning body fat. Maps suspension requires just suspension trainers. Again, if another full body workout, you can get both programs right now for only $99.99, but there's more. We're also including maps hit. hit stands for high intensity interval training.

This is a program designed to burn the maximum amount of calories in the minimum amount of time. So 20, 30 minute high intensity interval training workouts that burn tremendous amounts of calories. This program also minimal equipment. All three programs can be done at home, get all three of them for $99.99. That's it. They normally retail at $291. If you want to sign up, go to maps.novenbor.com. That's M-A-P-S. November.com. Oh, and one last thing. This comes

with a 30-day money back guarantee. So you can actually sign up, follow the workouts for a full month, if they don't blow your mind, return them for a full refund. Mr. Max, always blast having you here in the studio. I love being here with you guys. You know what I like about you is that you are, because when you look at the fitness, health, wellness, space, and it sucks that I have to name all three of those or whatever, you see a lot of these camps, and you are in the health, I would say health and wellness

camp, but you're so science-based at the same time. It is a little interesting to me how some people may take you, there are some people on social media that try to put you in a box of like non-science. Yes, pseudo-science guys. Sudo-science, which is so false because everything you say, everything you talk about, although it is wellness and health-backed, is always backed by science. One of the biggest things in the, I guess, the fitness space, they call themselves the science people, is like calories and macros, and that's the most important thing.

You talk about a lot of the other stuff that's important, but I do want to talk about how it makes you feel. Are you still getting that? Are you still getting beat up on social media? Do you still get people? It's possible. How can you not like you? Yeah, no, I don't know. I mean, I had an experience the other day where I posted something It was like a sponsored post, you know, we all have to make a living and I posted something where I I like to think that I and you know, we can always improve at our craft and our professions, but I like to think that I'm very balanced and fair and I don't make outlandish claims in my posts.

No matter what I'm talking about. And I posted about a supplement that I've started experimenting with. And I talked about the science underlying the supplement, not making any claims about what the supplement could do for you, not telling my audience to go out and buy it, just saying if you want to learn more, you can go to this website. And somebody, a well-known figure will say, in the fitness base, came over and said, or somebody, no, somebody tagged this person, which is usually how it happens.

Somebody tagged. Somebody left the tag and said, fact check, please to this person. And they come over. Not just they left like a personal they said if it's well if it's coming from Max then there's probably a little truth in it you know or something like that's what they said and I was like so I was so taken aback by that because we've never actually had like a one-on-one interaction or anything like that and I wasn't making any crazy any crazy claims

in my post so it just you know further proved to me that there is this divide that you just mentioned, sell in the fitness space. And it's what separates, I think, the rest of us, who are out there trying to provide pragmatic and practical information out to the public. Not to say that that sponsored post was like the best example of me offering practical health and wellness advice to my audience,

but I think that we need to have room when we're talking about dietary lifestyle interventions for the question marks that there are in science, and pragmatic philosophical approaches that ultimately are what guide people when they're making decisions that check out. These are not always data-driven decisions that we make at the end of the day. I think to be bound by the evidence, to me underserves the public. There's one example of what you're talking about.

I love using this example because as a trainer, you know, when I got into fitness, when you first become a trainer, you get certified, you read, you know, your books, and then you pass your test. And initially you start out and you look at your clients like this, like, okay, we're gonna get you to burn more calories, I'm gonna help you track your food, you're gonna follow a meal plan,

and then you're gonna get all the results you want. That's all you got. Just do what I tell you, You're gonna get all the results you want. Well, five years into it, you realize it's a terrible approach. This is not successful. Some people get results, but they all, you know, come back. Everybody gains the way back. This is a, just a bad approach. So there's just one town, and I don't know where it was, but they passed the law where they required all the restaurants, including the fast food restaurants, to post the calories of all the meals that they offered. And they thought, because they thought, if people were just informed, that would deter them from, you know, this was before they made it a lot.

Is it a little bit of time? No, this was in this town, they were experimenting with this law. Because that's a lot now, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they said, oh, if people are informed, then they'll eat less and it's calories. And this is going to help people lose weight. So they did this.

They put this up in these restaurants. And then they came back later on and found that people, the restaurants that posted the calories, people were actually eating more calories after they saw the calorie counts. And they thought, this doesn't make any sense. Why are people eating more now that they actually see displayed in front of them, the calories associated with the meals of the eating?

Now as a coach, as a trainer, when I read this, I thought, it's obvious, because I know, by this point, I had understood behavior. And I knew that rather than people going to the restaurant and saying, I could get the burger that's 800 calories or the salad that's 400 calories, I'll get the salad that'll save me 400 calories. Instead, this is what people do. Wow, the burger's only 400 more calories. I'll just get that.

Cause it had no idea, no concept, and it doesn't really mean much because 400 calories doesn't sound like that much. And if I can eat the thing that tastes better, that's where I'm at. And that's what ended up happening. Now, you got into this not because you were trying to help people get ripped or aesthetic

but rather from a health perspective, is that correct? Yeah, I mean, I was growing up, I was into bodybuilding and fitness, but my entry point, my on-ramp into doing this professionally and publicly was the fact that I got to witness my mother getting ill and ultimately passing. I think that it's obviously the greatest tragedy that I've ever experienced, but it's also a privilege in a way because it showed me what really matters. That to me is what guides my philosophy and my approach

to life. It's not, you know, getting 12-pack shredded abs, which I think is a great worthy goal for anybody that wants that, but that's not really what I think the public needs. You know, we look at data now suggesting that 12% of people have good metabolic health. And so, to me, I think there's a real public health crisis that's going on, and I don't think that the way to solve that crisis is with spreadsheets, and macro counting, and calorie counting, and the like. I think that there's certainly a place for that. I think for people that take their fitness really seriously

and are trying to hit goals that are probably so far out of reach for your average person, but that they've choose to maybe go from 14% body fat to 11% body fat, or 10% fat. Like for that, you need a certain level of diligence, but that's not really the kind of audience that I'm necessarily trying to reach. I think that those people are very well suited

by the content that you guys create, for example. But I've sort of been honed by my experience with my mom. I've been very, very lucky, and then I get to to go on TV shows like the Dr. Osso, the Rachel Ray show where I get to speak to a really large audience. And I go on those shows which are taped in front of live audiences and I see the kinds of people sitting in the audiences live at those shows. And they're the sweetest people, but so many of them are struggling with problems related to their weight.

You know, so many of them are overweight, many of them are obese. And we know, according to the data that by the year 2030, it's projected that one and two people are not just gonna be overweight, but obese. So I don't think that calorie counting really plays a role here, or ought to play a role here.

I think we need to know more about how foods affect our behavior. With a little bit of knowledge and insight into how food affects our cravings and our satiety checkpoints, I think that really can move the needle in a big way on this crisis. Well, I think of a different analogy

than the one that's salgated. I think of all these lost souls that you're talking about, the 88% of the population that just don't have an idea or clue, and it's like handing all of them a bunch of Tom-toms or giving them a Google Maps or whatever like handing all of them a bunch of Tom Tom's or giving them like a you know a your Google Maps or whatever and you dated yourself. It's still around. Garmin's and Tom Tom's are still around Doug right? Save me here.

I have no idea. Where's the Adam? The fucking Doug. Yeah, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? My ears still. No, I might not. But that's to me that's what it's like right? So you know because it's not that that doesn't work, right?

If you wanted to lose 30 pounds and you calculate your macros and you track and you weigh all your food, it's a very good approach to get there, just like typing in the address to a location that you need to get and having navigation is going to get there. But the reality of it, you have to learn, you're going to, at one point, you need to learn good practices and behaviors and learn about, you know, just, you're gonna, at one point, you need to learn good practices and behaviors and learn about, you know, just the basics and get a good grasp and understanding of how you should be taking care of your body. Otherwise, you're just kind of giving people the answers to the test and that in itself,

becoming dependent on that all time. Very similar to, and I speak to that one because this one is crazy for me. I remember when I first realized that I have lost this sense of direction. As a young kid growing up before the Tom Tom and the Garmin's came out, I was really good with knowing how to get around. And then I became so dependent on that

that I can't even get around my little town without using it all the time. And so I think of that analogy when I think of clients that I would tell, you know, eat this mini grams of protein, eat this mini grams of carbohydrates, eat this mini calories and hold them accountable to that. It's like, am I really teaching them how to be healthy? And are they really going to do that? You know what, that long term.

That brings me something too, because I've seen you talk about this on social media in Max and actually getting debates with people. The whole calorie worshippers, the macro worshippers, that's everything. The people in the fitness space that believe that that is the most and only important thing, they think that it's just that and they don't realize that there are other factors that can contribute to poor health, other factors that don't contain calories. And something that they say a lot is that there are no good or bad foods. Food is food.

And if you eat too many calories, it's bad if you're not, then it's fine. Just chemicals and milk. And I see you saying on your posts, like, no, there are foods that are bad, there are foods that are good. Like tell me a little bit about that. Well, like, I mean, what is our definition of food? It's just something edible, something that we can put into our face holes and digest without killing ourselves.

So by that definition, Play Do is food, right? Cause Play Do is basically pure gluten. And you can eat it. Gluten is like, obviously a protein-founded bread. I definitely ate that. It's, but that, that statement that there's knows that that like, food is food. To me, it's as, that's almost as infuriating as that meme

that you always see on fitness accounts on social media that carbs don't make you fat. Protein doesn't make you fat, fat doesn't make you fat. Eating too many calories makes you fat. I'm like, yeah, that's a mathematical fact, but that doesn't give me the advice. If I'm an overweight person eating ad-libitum ultra-processed foods day in and day out,

that doesn't tell me anything, you know, practical about how to shed the pounds, shed the weight, you know, what am I supposed to do? Open up a, you know, like, go into my Google Docs, start a spreadsheet and start counting calories. I think people need to know about how foods affect their behavior. And in a time when 60% of the calories that we consume come from these ultra-processed foods, I think it's, first of all, it's completely anti-science to say that there's no such thing as a good and bad food. And in an ad-libitum feeding environment, there are good foods and there are bad foods. And the bad foods are the foods that drive you to overeat.

These are the ultra-process foods that, by the time you've eaten them to satiety, you've already over-consumed them. You know, foods like... Oh, wait, so let's back up. So that's a very powerful statement. So some foods, when you eat them until you feel full, the way that they've been made or engineered, they've actually made you eat more calories

and you need because what they move that bar, that bar of how you feel, that fullness. Yeah, because they're so not satiating, they're not satiating and they're highly calorie dense. And so there was this amazing study that was published in 2018, Kevin Hall's the lead researcher, he's a highly regarded obesity researcher. And what they found was published in 2018, Kevin Hall's lead researcharies of highly

regarded obesity researcher. And what they found was that in an ad-libitum feeding environment, when you give subjects ultra-processed foods to consume, they end up to the same degree of satiety as they would on a minimally processed food diet. They eat about 500 excess calories per day. And if you stretch that out over the course of a week, that's a pound of weight gain every single week. And then when they did it was a crossover trial. So when they put those same subjects on a minimally processed food diet, they found that they actually came in at a calorie deficit like naturally. And these were again, adlibotum, what's so important about that, that term,

what that means, it's a free eating environment. So they're able to eat as much as they want. They're able to eat to satiety, to satisfaction. And so I think that's really important because at the end of the day, you don't want to have to rely on your willpower to reach your ideal body composition or your ideal metabolic health because willpower is a fleeting resource. It's a limited resource. It's a muscle that, for the most part, is fighting a losing battle in the context of the modern food environment. You also don't wanna have to pull out your scale

and calculate it every single time you're about to eat for the rest of your life too. Not only that, but there's a huge margin of error on what we believe to be calories in and the calories and calories out, you know, portion of the equation, right? Like nutrition facts labels are not always super accurate. Also, depending on the nature of the food itself,

you're absorbing or not absorbing a significant portion of calories. For example, the USDA just published a study where they found that whole nuts, when you eat a handful of whole nuts, you're actually only absorbing about 70 to 80% of those calories, contrary to what was previously thought that you absorbed 100% of those calories.

So, if you're counting the calories of the nuts that you're eating, for example, that's not an accurate number because whole undigested particles of those nuts flow through you without being actually absorbed. But if you're looking at ultra-process foods, for example, foods made of refined grain flour, or even like some of these keto foods. I'm not like turning a blind eye to these ultra-processed keto or paleo-approved foods. You're absorbing 100% of the calories in those foods. Well, not only absorbing all of them, but they all FDA allows them to be manipulated by like 30%.

The labels can be up to 30% wrong. Of course, if they are marketing themselves as a health food, they're going to lean on that direction. So, if I'm trying to say low calorie, low carb, low fat, low sugar, whatever, they're going to be pushing the boundaries on the percentage they can get away with. So, if the FDA says, okay, you can get away with 30% up or down on these calories. I'm promoting myself as a health food. I'm obviously going gonna put lower. And so, yeah, not only are you gonna eat more, but you're also digesting and also getting in more calories than what it's even telling you.

Yeah, and I understand completely the if it fits your macros fitness movement. Like, for people who are fitness professionals, like you guys, for example, that have really specific body, you know, goals and you're super diligent about tracking and you enjoy eating pizza or donuts or whatever, whatever that happens to be. Then I, of course, I understand that you can get that done. Like, you can, that's one, one road up the mountain, right? I just don't see that as being a solution

for people at large. And so when I see people with big profiles promoting this idea that all foods are the same, there's no such thing as a good and bad food. Fat doesn't make you fat, carbs don't make you fat. It's only calories that we need to be concerned about. To me, that's a public health to service. Now, in the context of normal calories, right? So let's say you're eating appropriately. Are there still things that tend to... Because you use the term, you said some about metap people are metabolically... I don't remember if we say say say 12% of Americans have met good metabolic health. Yeah. Okay.

Now this is what's interesting to me 12% of Americans have good metabolic health. That does not mean that 88% of Americans are overweight or obese because it's actually a smaller number than that. That means that there's a good chunk of people who are a good body weight, but still have poor metabolic health. So they're eating adequate calories, but they're metabolically they appear to be obese or unhealthy. Yeah, I'm sure you guys have had clients

that were skinny fat, right? The medical term for that is normal weight metabolically obese. So people, I don't know the exact proportion, but there's a significant, small but significant proportion of people who are of normal weight, who, when you look under the hood, you see that they have all kinds of biomarkers suggestive of metabolic problems, whether it's high fasting insulin, high fasting glucose, chronically elevated insulin, chronically elevated blood sugar, low HDL, high LDL, like

there's all these things, there's all these numbers that you can look for that, provide the picture that forms the constellation, that a physician would then use to diagnose metabolic syndrome, for example. But that is to say that looking in the mirror is not always the best litmus test for how you're doing internally. Now, what are the foods that can contribute to that? Because let's say you are eating good calories, what are foods that... Right, what's the theory?

Is that if you are able to maintain a, quote unquote, healthy weight, but then you are, you know, metabolically you're hurting, what is probably causing that then? What's causing the metabolic dysregulation? I mean, it could be any number of things. It could be just eating all kinds of processed foods that are causing your insulin levels

to stay up throughout the whole period of the day. It could be circadian disruption. It could be overexposure to environmental toxins, which play a role in metabolic health. I mean, there's evidence that exposure to BPA can actually alter insulin responses in the body. BPA, Bysphenol A, it's a plasticizing compound that you're exposed to when you heat food and plastic, for example, or when you touch store register receipts. There is evidence that that, in a dose that is a reasonable dose to expect a human to be exposed to today, that that can affect the hormone insulin functions in the body.

Insulin is obviously a fat storage hormone, but it's also important in metabolism for metabolic health. How much do micronutrients play a factor in obesity as well. I think that micronutrients are super important. When it comes to fat loss, fat gain, I think it's probably, you're probably better suited looking at the big picture, the bigger picture, macronutrients. But minerals like magnesium, magnesium is super important for metabolic health. I mean, magnesium is a co-factor for hundreds of enzymatic reactions in the body and some of those are involved in energy production,

like ATP production. So I think obviously being nutritionally replete is important as well. You know, it's interesting about what you're saying is that I would imagine that somebody who was of normal body weight but metabolically and healthy, right? So they have all the markers that you might see

and someone is obese, but they're normal weight. That sounds like a very dangerous, it could be a dangerous situation because they might not even be prompted to get checked out. They may think that they're perfectly fine because they look fine in the mirror and that could be a problem. What about macronutrients?

Like, we'll talk about carbohydrates for a second, but sugars specifically do sugars have worse effects on the body generally because we hear a lot of debate around that, like you hear the sugar is bad for you, it's evil, then we hear the other side that says, sugar's fine so long as your calories aren't high. Like what's the deal with that? Well added sugar for one is not satiating at all, right?

So it provides no satiety benefit and yet it's empty calories. And as I mentioned, we now live in a world where so many of us are struggling with our ever-expanding waistlines. And also to Justin's point, 90% of us are deficient in the least one essential nutrient. So to me, in an environment where we're overfed

and under-nourished, you know, like being an apologist for added sugar, to me, is again, another public health disservice, which I see all the time in the fitness space. Is a little bit of added sugar bad if you're working out all the time and you're super active, you're getting your 10,000 steps a day or whatever the recommendation is? No, I don't think that it's that huge of a deal.

But if you have glucose homeostasis problems, if you have glucose tolerance issues, then added sugar and really starchy high carbohydrate foods, I think can be very problematic because your blood sugar then will become elevated higher and stay elevated longer than it will for somebody who has normal glucose regulation. What are some of the best satiety producing macronutrients or foods that what have you seen in terms of things that people can eat that will help them naturally want to eat less? I mean, I think like preaching to the choir a little bit, but protein is, you know, by and large, I think it's the most important micronutrient to be aware of, to know what a powerful

tool is protein is for satiating your hunger. It's so important. It's the most satiating micronutrient. When you under eat protein, you're going to eat more carbs and fat. And you know, when you, both in the short term and the long term protein is the most satiating. So when I'm, you know, when I have like a hunger pang, I reach for high protein foods.

And I also know that it's a lot more difficult for me to pump the brakes when I'm snacking on foods that are low in protein and high in carbs and fat. So these are, I mean, typical junk foods, right? Like chips, paleo-pastoritos, wherever you want to call them, like low protein foods tend to be junk foods, junk foods tend to be low protein foods. And I think that there's a reason why they are so hyper-palatable, why they're so addictive, and why ultimately they underlie the obesity epidemic.

I think, so I think reaching for protein, that's major. And then also there are non dietary things as well that I think we need to be talking about, you know, in the same breath, like sleep. The fact that so many of us are under-slept these days, you know, when you're under-slept, you tend to crave more junk food the next day. What's the reason behind that?

Is that because it produces more, the feel good chemicals, because you feel crappy from not getting good sleep. So you eat the hyperpalible stuff to get your serotonin levels, what are the theories behind that? Well, I think there's an endocrine component to it. So when you're under-slapped just after,

on one night of poor sleep, you're basically pre-diabetic the next day. So it affects how you're, you know, the hormone insulin. Really? Functions, I think it also affects leptin and grellin. And there's a lot of these hormones are influenced by circadian rhythms. And when you are under-slept, I mean,

sleep is the master hormonal regulator. And so aside from that, I think there's a neurobiological component as well. So when you under-sleep, there's less activity in the front part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex, which is sort of the home of decision making and executive function. And so when you are under slept, you basically have a brain that's operating more primarily. And it wants things that are going to comfort it that are more essential to survival, so essentially sugar and, you know,

hyper-palatable foods, fatty foods as well. Emotional regulation becomes a lot more difficult when you're under-sled, and that's that sense of willpower, you know, like I think there was an experience that I had very early on, it doesn't really have anything to do with food, but I went through a breakup. And I had this subjective experience where I realized, I learned that on days that I was under-slept,

it was a lot more difficult for me to deal with the emotions that I was feeling. You know, when I went through, when I was going through that breakup. And so I think the same thing happens with food. It's just like when we're under-slept, our hormones are all dysregulated and our brain just doesn't, it's not like working in our, you know, that subconscious hunger just isn't

working in our favor. It's working against us. Well, you're not, now you're moving in the direction that I like to tell you, right now we've been talking a lot about, you know, calories and macros and micro-nutrients, but really to me, the stuff that really made a difference with clients was teaching them the behaviors. And that's the stuff that I feel like the fitness space, the bodybuilding. The joy of it. Yeah, we just don't talk about that. It's like, okay, we can weigh and measure your food all day long, but one of the things

I remember seeing happen when I was competing was I was blown away. I remember telling these guys, when I got into it, we were all hanging out together and I was in the middle of competing immense physique. And I remember coming back and telling them, I said, dude, I have seen more eating disorders in this competitive bodybuilding world than I had previously seen in almost two decades of training average clients. And that blew my mind because we look at their bodies, right? We look at them and they look amazing.

They're on covers of magazines. Everyone's following them taking their advice. But the reality is, it's the relationship. It promotes this, this bench and restrict behavior. And forget the science of the calories and the measuring and the weighing and the macro micro. It's like, when you tell somebody and you have them restrict like that

and they are calculating their weighing and they're staying so dialed in, you create this behavior of, I can't. I can't have this. I can't have this. I can't have this. This is bad. This is what, and then you finally break, which everybody eventually does. And a lot of times, and when you see it in the competitive world, when they break, it's after they did their show. They've disciplined themselves for two months, three months, maybe even six months long to get to that goal, and then they just cut loose. And I'd see guys and girls put 20, 30 pounds on

in like four days. I mean, that's just insane to me. And that's obviously an example of an exaggerated version of what most people go through. But I think they go through a similar thing, going through this, okay, I'm on a diet now, it's New Year's Resolution, let me start weighing my food, I'm gonna have these salads, I'm gonna exercise every single day,

and all it does is it promotes this bench-restrict behavior, and I think that is the more important conversation than even getting down to this calorie and macro top. Oh, totally, you talk about protein, Max. I'll give you an example of what Adam's talking about. So I figured this out later on as a trainer, but I would tell clients because proteins very satiating, right? I would tell clients, hit your protein goals. Don't worry about anything else. And naturally, they would eat less naturally, just because it, because I know it was so

satiety producing. So I'd say whenever you have your meal, eat your protein first in your meal. So if your goal is 25 grams of protein per meal or whatever, eat that first, then eat the rest. And then- And they would just naturally lose weight and they thought, oh, the protein's making me lose weight. No, it's because of the, it produces more satiety. Now that advice, because you are in the wellness space,

sometimes that does put you at odds with the vegan and vegetarians, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I like, people from all these different factions like like to come out and attack me. You know what's the deal with that? I don't care, I'm just trying, you know, like bring it on.

It's because you're handsome, bro. I'm just, I mean, I'm saying that's working against you. Trying to keep up with the looks of you guys. No, I mean, yeah, protein, I think, is incredibly important, and I appreciate it, and I value it. And I think that this whole low protein diet cult to me is something that I think is another thing

that's harming people. First of all, we don't know the results of taking somebody who lives in a first world country who's exposed to the modern, the standard American diet, and then is told to eat a low protein diet, and then eats a low protein version of the standard American diet. I mean, to me, that just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

And there's really no good evidence that low protein diets promote longevity or health. In fact, people over 65 who eat higher protein have greater longevity and reduced risk for cancer. So, I don't, I think that that's just a, yeah, not smart. Also, there's this concept of anabolic resistance, which I'm sure that you guys can speak to, but as we get older, we probably need to consume more protein to maintain our muscle mass. So I think that that's, these are non-trivial points. Not to mention, when we look back at our clients,

it was the number one macronutrient that I had to address with all clients. Like, it normal people. The only people I ever had to say eat less protein to were some bodybuilding fanatics that I adopted. Like, if I got you and you had been bodybuilding for three years and for some reason eating, you know, three grams of protein for every pound of body weight,

I would end up telling you to skill back because that's why you're having a hard time shitting and you're having all those issues with your digestion because of how much you're eating. Everybody else, every other male and female that just came in for overall health or losing weight or wanting to put a little bit of muscle on or work on their mobility,

every one of their diets that I said all under-consumed protein. It's for sure one of the most neglected. It's hard to do. There's this researcher, Bill Campbell, who I follow on social media. He's pretty well known in the bodybuilding fitness space. He's like a body composition scientist.

And he did this little study with his students where he asked them all to try to consume one gram of Protein per pound of body weight and he said that only about half of them could adhere to it because it's just so damn hard to do It's so hard to do because it's so satiating. Yeah, it is and along along those lines with with protein Let's say I have two pieces of meat equal calories Equal grams of proteins macros all that stuff one is One is what people might say in your space, especially, high quality. Grass fed, the animal was in good conditions.

The other one, factory produced, grain fed. What are the differences? They got same calories, same protein, same fats. Are there any differences? With a grass fed with a more proper... Yeah, I mean, I think that I think, you know, obviously in an ideal world where all consuming 100% grass fed beef, pasture raised eggs and free range chicken, you know, things like that.

But I also, and this is where the paleo people will come at me, I also feel, and I've become a lot more moderate in my stance over time because I truly believe that if you live in a part of the country, a food desert where you don't have access to 100% grass-fed beef, for example, is eating grain-fed beef bad for you? My answer to that is no. I think that it's a much better option even than boxed mac and cheese, which is I think the kind of food that basically typifies ultra know, it basically typifies ultra processed foods, foods which many people are eating, you know,

for all meals of the day. And so, you know, regular, as much as I would never get behind an endorse factory farm, I just can't do that from an ethical standpoint, because, you know, it's so cruel to the animals. Like, it, it's still one of the most nutrient dense foods available to most people. And thank, you know, we love to talk about the, you know,

the harms of modern food production and the modern food environment, right? But like, the food system is also, it's pretty great. And that anybody anywhere can, can access beef, you know, and, uh, and chicken and things like that or eggs, you know, conventional eggs. Like, I, you know, I don't buy conventional eggs because I just know that, or eggs, conventional eggs. I don't buy conventional eggs because I just know that they're produced. Like the chicken has been reduced to this egg laying machine

and they're kept in these awful crates and whatever. But that being said, even a conventional egg is still an amazingly nutrient-tens food. Now, but there are some small differences though, right? Like, if I had a pasture raised egg versus a conventional egg, what would I see nutrient-wise difference? Well, you can always tell the how healthy the chicken was by the robustness of the shell of the egg.

So, if you take a conventional egg, you'll notice that the shells are very, very thin and brittle. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Whereas a pasture raised egg, the shells are really hard to crack. This is like no joke. They have higher mineral density in the egg shells. You can also tell from the color of the yolk, a pasture egg is going to have a much darker, almost orange-ish hue to the yolk, and that's due to the higher

presence of carotenoids. Carotenoids are plant pigments, which basically accumulate in the yolk, and they protect neural tissue. So, it's actually interesting if you consider the fact that in embryo, in an embryo, the nervous system is the first system to assemble, and the brain is obviously a part of the, it's a major component of the central nervous system, that an egg yolk literally contains everything that nature has deemed important to grow a healthy brain. And so it's no wonder then that egg yolks are full of cholesterol,

you know, that the brain is full of cholesterol, colon, colon, omega-3 fatty acids like DHA, but then also carotenoids, carotenoids, which are found in plants. This is another reason why I don't think I could ever fully get behind the carnivore diet because carotenoids, carotenoids, which are found in plants. This is another reason why I don't think I could ever fully get behind the carnivore diet because carotenoids are plant pigments. And we know that they protect neural tissue.

And we, they were first identified because we can see them in the eye, they protect the eyes. The eyes are basically just an extension of your brain and contain neural tissue. But we now know that these same compounds accumulate in the brain where they protect brain cells from oxidative stress, they help maintain cognitive function as we age, and they can actually even boost your cognitive function when you're young and healthy. So that's why I think looking at egg yolks and making sure that they're really dark

and deeply orange and hue is a sign of a healthy. I can't eat conventional eggs anymore. Like, if I crack a conventional egg with the next to a password, it just looks pale, and anemic. And anemic, it does. Now, the differences in these nutrients on an egg versus egg are they big or are they small? I'm only smaller.

Yeah, I would say that they're significant. I believe it's something like 11 times the amount of DHA in a Lestered egg compared to. Yeah, in absolute terms, is the amount of DHA in an egg gonna be comparable to what you get in just one piece of wild salmon, probably pretty small in comparison. But yeah, I think that there are big nutritional differences,

same with grass-fed beef versus grain-fed beef. But we can't let, we can't let, what's the term? You can't let perfect be the enemy of the good. Oh, yeah. You can't let perfect be the enemy of the good, right? So even a conventional egg is, I think, a great nutritional resource for people, right?

Now, we've had, well, me personally, I've had a lot of clients that are just, like, fixated on novelty. And that's something that I've had to help kind of coach them through in terms of, like, trying to get satiated. So novelty is one of those things. They're always trying to seek, you know, what tastes the best. And that's like the entire focus of entire focus of when they're eating. So how do you address that? We're so spoiled humans. We always want newer, there's that famous Jerry Seinfeld quote, right? Like about men when they're watching TV, men don't care what's on TV.

They only want to know what else is on. It's the same way that we approach our diets. But then you look at an animal, a cat or whatever. They're content to eat the same thing day in and day out. But, um, but no, I think novelty is important. You know, switch things up, keep things interesting. Um, that's where I think, you know, learning how to cook is really valuable and learning how to take like simple ingredients and, and turn them into something transcendent.

I really value like the way, uh, Mediterranean style cooking Mediterranean style cooking kind of takes that approach same with Japanese cooking. There's endless novelty in Mediterranean and Japanese cuisine, but they use basically just a handful of simple ingredients. I just read an article that said that the Mediterranean, when you're comparing like, quote, unquote diets, that the Mediterranean diet across the board seems to rank consistently the highest or among the best in terms of health Is that are you familiar with that or the Mediterranean diet? Yeah, yeah I mean so it's always cited as being one of the one of the most protective and you know

most longevity promoting diets out there But there are there are other dietary patterns that are equally healthy like the Japanese dietary pattern We just haven't studied it as much what What are the characteristics of the Mediterranean diet? What's in there that is, that you think is promoting some of these health benefits? I think the preponderance of minimally processed food, no unhealthy cooking oils. Like if you go to a true Mediterranean kitchen,

you won't find any canola oil. You won't find any corn oil, soybean oil, like if you go to a true Mediterranean kitchen, you won't find any canola oil. You won't find any corn oil, soybean oil, none of that garbage. They're cooking primarily with extra virgin olive oil, and they also use extra virgin olive oil as a sauce. I'm a huge extra virgin olive oil fan, and sometimes you get from the vegan community that all oil is bad, including olive oil, which is a complete... I never heard this, Vegan's are saying that. Yeah, they have anti-oil, there's this sect. It's like a sect of veganism.

Of the real hardcore. They're like, you know, I like being vegan, it's not extreme enough. Yeah, more extreme. Yes, exactly. They're anti-oil. And yeah, so they like, they've banished all kinds of liquid oils, including extra virgin olive oil, which to me makes no sense. It's also not a science-based, like that right there is a very blatant divergence from the science to say that extra virgin olive oil is not good for you. What's the reasoning behind this?

Behind the no oil? Yeah, I think they're claims that it damages the endothelium or endothelial function, which is how basically your arteries respond to environmental pressures and are able to expand and contract. Whenever you eat fat, it's gonna fill your blood with triglycerides, you're gonna see, you would be able to see that on a blood draw. I think most recently that was illustrated

in the documentary and I'm using air quotes, game changers. But... Propaganda? Yeah. But that's totally normal. It's the same thing, like when you eat something that's, we know that chronically elevated blood sugar is not good for you.

Does that mean that the occasional blood sugar spike is also not good for you? No, not necessarily, because in a normal, metabolically healthy body, your body brings the blood sugar right back down, right? Same thing with post-prondial, a post-prondial elevation in triglycerides. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

So I think that that sect has sort of, it's been a bit of a permutation from, or like, it's sort of been this like extrapolation from, you know, the fact that, well, meat is high in fat, so we have to be against high fat diets, and if we're going to be against high fat diets, then we have to be against pure oil. And so, but to me, none of it makes any sense. That's how ice was created. Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, it basically is like the ISIS of the plant-based community. These are like carbs only. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, everything else has been. It seems to me, because when you look at oils, and you talked about the bad oils, right, canola, and some of those processed vegetables, it seems to me like the more natural, I hate using that term,

because now people come after me, but the more natural something is, the tends to be more healthy. And when you look at something like olive oil, in order to get olive oil, all you literally need to do is take an olive and squeeze it. You could actually squeeze it with your fingers and produce oil.

You can't do that with canola oil or corn oil, right? Ever try and get some corn and squeeze it and see if you get any oil. Yeah, good luck. I milk it. You can just milk the corn for me. Yes, that's not discussed. I don't know.

So, okay, so what's the deal with these unhealthy fats for orc oils? What are they and then what makes them unhealthy or what do they do in the body? Yeah, so grain and seed oils are extracted from grains, as you mentioned, like corn, legumes, like soy, the seeds of grapes. I'll give you a really great story. So grape seed oil is now sort of has this health halo, right? Because people think grapes healthy, grape seeds, like anything but healthy. But they were actually a throwaway product of the wine industry, a byproduct

of wine making. They would take the seeds, which were very rich in tan and so very bitter, essentially useless buy products and throw them out until one brilliant, you know, industrialists realize that you could squeeze the seeds, get oil out of them, and sell that oil for industrial purposes, and then ultimately run it through a bunch of different processes that clean it up, get the bitter taste out, make it sendless, and turn it into a cooking oil. And now, grapes through oil is on track to become a $600 million dollar of your business. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. The problem with oils like Grape seed oil, corn oil, soybean oil is that they're incredibly refined. So they go through all these industrial processes unlike when we produce olive oil, which some mentioned, it's just made via squeezing and olive. One of the processes that all these oils undergo

is called deodorization, and that process actually creates trans fats. We know that trans fats are not good for us. The most common way in which they would appear in the diet up until just a few years ago was in the form of partially hydrogenated oils. But the FDA realized that trans fats, there's no safe level of trans fat consumption. Those were banned. But trans fats lurk in any of these grain and seed oils once they go through that processing,

that deodorization step. The other fact that I think makes them unworthy of being included in your diet in any significant way is the fact that they're predominantly polyunsaturated fat. Polyunsaturated fat, there's nothing inherently wrong with polyunsaturated fat. We need them to live, you know, essential fatty acids, omega-3s and omega-6s are polyunsaturates, but they're the least chemically stable of any type of dietary fat. So they're more chemically unstable than monoinsaturated fat and saturated fat. And the problem with that is that they easily go bad.

They become oxidized and then when we store them and we expose them to light and oxygen and heat, they basically become damaged fats and damaged fats in essence damages you. You're basically ingesting prone flammatory substances that then integrate themselves into your cell membranes and also very then integrate themselves into your cell membranes and also very easily integrate themselves into your brain because your brain is constructed primarily of polyunsaturated fats. Now, this is where I feel like you get labeled as a pseudoscience guy because you take apart something like this, like grape seed oil.

And if grape seed oil is equal to olive oil in calories and you eat the right amount of calories and you're totally fine. And I don't think you would even say that grape seed oil is that bad that's going to kill somebody if you replace grape seed instead of olive oil. Do you think it's the assault of all these things that is so damaging and so bad, or would you actually say that this one thing is that awful? Well, I think with grape seed oil, it's a dose makes the poison kind of scenario. And I think a lot of the evidence-based,

those in the evidence-based camp would say that while these oils, there's something good about, there might be some positive aspect to them in that they're not saturated and so they can lower your cholesterol, so they do do that. But at what cost? You're eating these oils that are very easily...

I mean, this is like known that these oils very easily oxidized. And so the other thing is that when you find these oils in nature, they're usually bound to antioxidants, like vitamin E. So whenever you find a high concentration or a high proportion of polyunsaturated fats in nature, you're also going to find high levels of vitamin E. Vitamin E basically prevents lipid peroxidation, which is what these oils undergo when they over the course of that mutation process.

And they're stripped of those antioxidants when we produce them. So I think like a little bit here and there, probably not going to be the end of the world in the context of a diet that is replete with, you know, other antioxidants, you know, like vitamin E, carotenoids, you know, what have you. But, uh, but no, I mean, I do think that they're definitely, they're definitely worth avoiding. And, and also like the, the long term data like isn't really there. So, you know, another thing that I like to remind people of is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So the fact that we don't yet know how the chronic day-in-day out

consumption of these oils affects our long-term brain health, and that is a fact we don't know, is not evidence that there's no effect. It's just evidence that there's no evidence. It's just evidence that there's no evidence. Right, there was a study that they did, it was an older one where they lowered people's cholesterol by switching out their oils. So they went from saturated fat to these types of fats that we're talking about right now,

these highly processed vegetable oils. And they did indeed lower their cholesterol, but their health outcomes were worse. Yeah, it's the Minnesota coronary survey. And it's been a while since I looked at this, so I can't recite the exact details, but it was basically that. They basically took a whole number of patients

that were institutionalized, and they switched out all of the saturated fats in their diets to these pollen to corn oil, essentially. They gave them corn oil enriched products. What they found was that their cholesterol numbers did lower, but they had a dramatically increased risk of heart attack and death. That's where I think that this is not something that you want to mess with. It's like you passed the test, so you got the right grade, but that doesn't necessarily

mean you're better off. So yeah, I got the cholesterol test right, but now I'm sicker and not as healthy. So since we're not big fans of weighing and measuring and tracking your food religiously, do you have a process, if you're helping a process, like if you're helping a family, or I know you're not like a coach or a trainer with clients like we are, but if you're helping a family member or a friend, is there like an order of operation of things

like you kind of tell them either to get out of their cupboard or to have more of like, have you, do you go, okay, this, this, this, and this, but you don't need that, we can have this instead, or make sure you're getting more, is there an order of operation for you when you're helping somebody? Yeah, I mean, I try, these days I try to just get people,

to move away from ultra processed foods, whether those foods are grain-based or even like, and I'm guilty of this, I eat keto processed food products like no tomorrow. It's such, I eat them, but I know that they're it's very difficult for me to control my my moderation of those foods. It's just that that's how I you know choose to indulge, but generally like I tell people that that you know the more you can move away from ultra processed foods and reach instead for minimally processed foods, I think that you're going to be well suited and I also you know, I I mean, I tend to have a bias for low carbohydrate diets for most people. I had to stop you at the mentally processing. It's houses at a

lot too. And I think you guys are saying that to protect yourself because almost everything is basically processed, but what you're really saying is whole foods. Yeah, okay. Yeah, exactly. Like foods with singular ingredients, you know, right? But man, because people hear that they go like mentally processed. Oh, this one has less than that thing. You know, this is hundreds. So this one only got 25 so I'm gonna have this thing But it's really mentally processed for you guys means whole food And the reason why you say that is because almost even almost all whole foods are processed somewhat Well, we process when we cook that's why exactly that's why you I know you say that to protect your ass

Gotta protect my butt. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, whole foods don't have extensive ingredient lists. They are the ingredients. And I think in so far as we can learn to cook and process these foods ourselves, I think that's great. But when foods are industrially processed and become what food scientists refer to as ultra processed, that's where I think you have problems. That's where it's, you know, it's like you get these food products

that take your body no effort whatsoever to digest. You're absorbing like 100% of those calories. Not only that, but you're absorbing them, like really high up in the small intestine. Like it takes your body like no effort whatsoever to assimilate them. And I think that hormonally probably has some downstream consequences as well, right?

Like you're absorbing all of that refined grain, that glucose, like right away, and I just don't know if your body has the capacity to rebound from it quick enough for you to stop eating and to recognize, you know, to have that sort of acknowledgement that, like, in terms of your satiety, that I just ate food. Yeah. I've had to regress that advice even further, right? Because I mean, maybe for us, or people that are in the fitness and wellness space, it's easier to digest that and go,

okay, I can do that. I'm gonna eat all these whole foods. But what I've had to do is to reduce it all the way down to like a thing. Because so many people eat such a highly processed diet, I normally will, you know, have my client go, okay, this is what I want you to do. Don't change anything, eat all your food, eat your sneakers, bars, okay, this is what I want you to do.

Don't change anything, eat all your food, eat your Snickers bars, eat whatever it is you eat during a week, and just track it for me so I can see. And I only pick like one or two things I change. Because that in itself is so difficult for most people. If to take somebody who eats almost all processed and to radically change them to all whole foods, it's almost too much. And I've had more success taking somebody like that and just getting changing one or two behaviors

that they listen, this is so much better for you if you do this and it's still good, you'll enjoy it, get rid of this, have this instead. I've had so much more success long-term with those people that I have for somebody who comes in and I say, here's your meal plan. You eat 150 grams of protein, you're eating this, this, this, and fall this to a T. Stick to that for six months.

They're getting great shape. Those people almost always, like 90 plus percent of those people put all the weight back on. I have way more success even just changing a few things and someone's diet as far as like their long-term health. Well, it's like it's the difference between like trying to lose weight and weight loss just happening.

And what I mean by that is like if I start removing heavily processed foods, we know I'm gonna eat less naturally versus counting calories and macros and trying to eat less. Now both of them will get you to eat less, but which one is more sustainable? Honestly, like which one, which situation you wanna be in? And this is, it took me a long time to figure this out, Max. Like at some point, I was like, man,

my clients are failing. Consistently, I need to figure out a way for them to eat less just kind of like it happens on its own. And that's the way that, well, I think that's, it's the psychological part. Because you're not telling them they can only have, like there's something about that when you say, you can only have this,

or you're get that cut this out versus, hey, instead of eating this, let's eat this. And I'm not telling you to weigh it, I'm not telling you to measure it, I'm not telling me to calculate it out. I'm just, I see something in their diet that I think is a poor choice. I can give them a better choice. And if I can just get them to make that a habit instead of reaching for this, they reach for that.

And I can train them to do that. I already know naturally the calories are going to come down, they're going to lose somebody way. And then I know that I'm also playing into the psychology of I'm not telling them they can't eat or restrict, you know. That's why I feel like counting calories is staying there. It's like the opposite way to get to the right place. I feel like you're starting at the wrong place.

To start with the behaviors and then start to move in that direction if we need to, you know, start counting things. And usually that happens when you're trying to get shredded, but most people could get a good body weight and good health by not even really needed to focus on those types of things. Now, you mentioned you tend to navigate max towards lower carb diets. What's the reason behind that? Yeah, I just think, well, first of all, you know, I mean, I start from a place of there, of knowing that there's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, right?

And then I titrate my carbohydrates up or down depending on my activity levels and my performance goals, which I think is very easy to do and intuitive doesn't require a spreadsheet to do. So I'm eating more sweet potatoes, white potatoes, rice on my sushi, for example, when I know that I'm using those carbs to support my energy levels. If I've spent a week basically being sedentary, which has been six months of quarantine at this point, I'm sure that's not that unusual for some people out there. Then I'm trying to eat lower on the carbohydrate spectrum.

Just to manage my glycemic variability, keep my blood sugar down. Also, I think that that there is an effect on, in terms of your hunger levels. If you have these swings in blood sugar, I think that that affects your hunger. And also, as I mentioned, protein is going to be the most satiating for that. I also think that there's value in always of always kind of functioning or at least occasionally functioning in a glycogen depleted state. Many people when they wake up in the morning, they wake up sort of in some degree of ketosis. I think intermittent ketosis is beneficial from a brain health standpoint.

I think that we probably didn't evolve being glucose burners 365 days a year, right? So I think that there's probably some benefit whether it's on a weekly, daily, weekly, monthly, seasonal basis to allowing the brain to access key tones for a number of different benefits. We know that it's a very powerful fuel source to the brain. We know that it's not just a fuel source, but it has all these signaling benefits

in terms of boosting blood flow to the brain, boosting growth factors like BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor. So for me, that's why I think low carb trumps low fat. And we know that high carb high fat is sort of the basis of the standard American diet. So I think you've kind of got of like, I think it's best to kind of pick one or the other.

Obviously we have populations around the world that thrive on low fat diet. So I'm not saying that you can't have a low fat diet and thrive, but I also think there's benefits to hunger regulation on a low carbohydrate diet. And so for me, like that, there's no doubt that low carb diets help people lose weight and achieve their goal body compositions. It's not the only way to get there, obviously, but I do think that it's helpful.

It's a helpful construct for people. I think it's pretty easy also for people to that don't have a lot of nutrition knowledge to be able to identify what has a lot of carbs and what doesn't. And so for that reason, it's a good starting framework for somebody to understand. But then going to the keto side of things, I think a lot of people in the keto space are just eating too much fat. So it's interesting because my diet is not a very high carbohydrate diet. It's a lower carbohydrate diet, but I'm also not adding like lots and lots of added fats either. You're not going out of your way to like add fat.

Fats and oils? No, because fats and oils are a very nutrient-poor food. The calories add up. Yeah, there's just no need to do that. What about time of day? Are you from me within your research, you know, recent research talking about best times of day to eat or, cause, you know, eating late at night, you hear some people say, it's not a good idea cause it messes with your circadian rhythm or you should fast or, what about time of days or anything that you can speak to that?

Well, I think what's called early time restricted feeding. So eating an earlier dinner probably has metabolic health benefits, like better blood sugar regulation, better blood pressure. It can be a very useful tool for calorie control. The data on humans doesn't really seem to show a benefit of intermittent fasting for weight loss beyond just calorie control, which I appreciate. I don't think it's a magic tool for weight loss or just calorie control, which I appreciate. I don't think it's a magic tool for weight loss or anything like that, but I do think that there are metabolic health benefits, and a lot of that, I think, potentially, can stem

from the fact that all of our organs are under circadian influence. And so take insulin, for example. You're more insulin-sensitive earlier in the day than you are later on in the day. So carbs earlier in less carbs later. Well, so insulin basically influences glucose management in the body, right? So if you're eating all of your carbohydrates earlier in the day, you're probably going to have an improvement in your just overall area under the curve for insulin and blood sugar. Interesting.

Bodybuilders have been talking about eating that way for a long time. Oh, yeah. You know, yeah.ers have been talking about eating that way for a long time. Oh yeah, you know, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we're talking about so much right now, I feel like the important thing is like, and the takeaways that I think of is, you know, going back to the behavior stuff, it's like you pick one or two of these things,

you implement it into your life, you create a habit around it, and then you build on it. Like that to me is far more successful than, you know, circling back to the title of this, with the whole counting calories and macros and weighing food. I just, you'll have far more success taking it at a slower pace, picking one or two of the things that we've talked about, implementing it into your lifestyle, creating a behavior and a habit around it, and then building on that with all the other things that we're talking about. That will,

I think you'll have far more success long term than maybe the short term success you have of, you know, staying strict on a diet, measuring, weighing, tracking for three to six weeks. You know, Max, I did wanna ask you kind of one last, like maybe group of questions. More people today, just because of COVID and the circumstances are eating at home,

they are buying more processed foods, because here's one of the benefits of processed foods along shelf life. Like I could buy a bunch of it, store it in the cupboard, and it's not gonna go bad on like Whole Foods where if I buy too much of it and it'll go bad if I don't eat it. Do you have some go-to processed foods? Like if you are gonna go that route,

what are there some better options? Yeah, well I love this question because it also, you know, it allows me to sort of illustrate the nuance that not all processed foods or ultra processed foods even are bad for you. Like we all love a good like avocado oil based mayo, right? I dark chocolate regularly, which is an ultra processed food. Yeah, so I mean like staples for me,

I always keep my kitchen stocked with a good dark chocolate. I found one of my favorite bars. You like light light some candles, eat a little dark chocolate. Eat a little dark chocolate. Yeah, light some me on. Me time. Yeah.

No, I love a good dark chocolate. I get like this 88% bar from endangered species, which is a brand I've zero affiliation with them. But consumer reports, it was either consumer reports or consumer lab found that they were the bar that had the lowest level of heavy metals and the highest concentration of polyphenols, of like cocoa polyphenols, of like any other bar that they tested generally. So yeah, it's a, Doug, do you eat that one? Doug's a chocolate.

Yeah, fanatic. I buy 88% in nature species. Yeah, I'm the alter eco guy. Alter eco huh? 85% nice. I've always, I'm, I try to, I actually, I mean, dark chocolate is a health food. So I eat like a bar a week, at least.

And so I have that in the house. I always have sardines, beef jerky, paleo valley, beef sticks. I know you guys love them, huge fan. Yeah. What else? I mean, I definitely think that there's value in a good protein shake. You're talking about cooking,. I know you guys love them, a huge fan. What else? I mean, I definitely think that there's value in a good protein shake. You're talking about cooking because I know you do cook a lot and you're kind of, I've seen some of your posts and they look pretty

any simple meals that you like to make that are easy because I mean, again, let's say staple for like bachelor guys. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, so this isn't a meal, but one of my favorite recipes, it's also, it's so easy to make, so tasty and very good to give to house guests. Like they always tend to be very impressed. All you gotta do is melt, so it's their dark chocolate covered blueberries. So how I make it is I melt a bar of dark chocolate. Very, very low heat. Like you can kind of pulse the heat on your stove top like you know Maybe 10 seconds on 10 seconds off you don't want to burn the chocolate You just want to like melt it down into a pan and then like so one bar and then you throw in half a half a tablespoon of coconut oil and

If you're using a very dark bar throw throw in a tablespoon of like a, I use like a a lacanto monk fruit or with a ritol-based sweetener. So you throw in a little bit of extra sweetener just to like, you know, to up the sweetness if you're using a very dark bar. You don't, you can omit that if you're using like a 72% bar. I use 88%. And so once it's all melted, you throw And so once it's all melted, you throw fresh rinsed but dry blueberries into the pan. And then you just make sure that they're all covered and then you spoon them onto a baking sheet. And then you throw them in the,

oh no, before throwing them in the fridge, you sprinkle a little bit of sea salt on top. Just do that like nice little like sea salt. Now I got something to go with that. If you make that, if you make that for your guests, I guess I got something to go with that you'll like this. So I take your plain Greek yogurt, strain it over a cheese cloth overnight,

so you get all the liquids out, and then whip it and add whatever your favorite sweetener is to give it the sweet taste, so it doesn't have that tarty taste, and then you dip strawberries in it. Oh, yeah. It tastes like whipped cream and strawberry, like a strawberry shortcake type of texture.

I'd love to see you guys feed each other. I'm loaded. Oh, that sounds good. I just love to see you guys feed each other. We'll do. Oh, that sound good. I just, I'm just talking about the blueberry stuff. I'm like, man, that sounds like something I do with the strawberries. Blueberry balls and my strawberry. I would go together. It's like a little thing, you know.

So awesome. Yeah, it's just really easy to melt a bar of chocolate down and chocolate coat with it. I like cheese nachos. That's my favorite. Yes, my favorite cheese nachos. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, let me do it.

It's a home run. Well, dude, Max, you're always fun to talk to you, man. I love having you in the studio. How's your new book doing, by the way? I mean, it's been out now for how long? It's been like six months. Yeah. It's doing well.

It's called The Genius Life. And it's about all the little things that you can do throughout the course of your day to improve the way you feel and boost your health long term. So it's 360 degrees sort of lifestyle approach, touches on exercise, physiology, environmental toxicity, diets, or kadian biology, nature, and even like how we interact with technology. There's a lot in the book, but yeah, it came out back in March. And so I highly recommend going to check it out.

I recommend it's a great book. And then of course, the original Genius Foods both. It goes great with this conversation. Yeah, both great books. It's actually probably my most recommended book that I recommend to family members because the way you write it's easy to digest, easy to understand, very pragmatic and of course it's all research based. So, good stuff.

Yeah, no problem, man. Thanks for coming on again. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance Check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media dot com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad

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