Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1442: Why Weight Lifting Is a Waste of Time

Episode Date: December 10, 2020

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin dissect the claim that weight lifting is a waste of time.  Debunking the argument, in a recent Ben Greenfield podcast, that weight lifting is a waste of time. (2:53) Why practicing “the skill” of an exercise is extremely important to get good. (7:45) The complexity of intensity and its effect on the central nervous system. (11:13) The misleading nature of clickbait. (13:56) How free-weights are among the most versatile pieces of equipment around! (16:55) The mistake of valuing a workout from the workout perceptive and not from the skill perceptive. (19:15) The importance of the transfer to the real world. (22:32) The balance and stability factor that is provided by free-weights. (24:10) Why athletes choose free-weights over resistance bands. (26:15) Why Mind Pump does not advocate ANYONE going to failure. (29:15) Mind Pump on the value of training in all modalities. (32:06) Cashing in on timing. (34:23) When it comes to training your body, your best bet is having the RIGHT programming. (37:30) Related Links/Products Mentioned MAPS Fitness Products Visit Paleo Valley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code “Mindpump15” at checkout for 15% discount** Ben Greenfield Podcast - The Best 10 Minute A Day Workout – How To Massively Increase Bone Density And Muscle In Just 10 Minutes (& Biohack Extreme Fitness Levels) Mind Pump #1380: The 10 Best Resistance Band Exercises Stop Working Out And Start Practicing - Mind Pump Media Heavy Duty – Book by Mike Mentzer Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Dr. John Jaquish (@drjaquish)  Instagram Ben Greenfield (@bengreenfieldfitness)  Instagram

If you're trying to maximize your results and get a great physique and also maximize the time you spend, there's nothing wrong with that. But when you hear someone say 10 minutes and it's just as good as a 45 minute or hour well placed door done workout, that's just playing wrong. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Might, might, up with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You are listening to the world's number one fitness health

and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pup. Now, in today's episode, we address something that's going around right now in the podcast world. There's a guy going around talking about why weightlifting is a waste of time. Of course, we totally, and completely disagree. And of course, he's selling a piece of equipment to try to make some money right now off of some of these claims.

So in this episode, we tackle some of the claims and why they're false. We also talk about why free weights are still among some of the best pieces of equipment you can use for resistance training. by their false. And we also talk about why free weights are still among some of the best pieces of equipment you can use for resistance training. Now here's a deal. We have been trainers for a very long time. Adam, Justin and myself, between the three of us have trained thousands of people, everyday people,

and helped them get into better shape. We have a lot of experience, over 60 years between the three of us. We know what gets people to respond. we know what gets bodies to change, we know what really, really works. That's why we write workouts. We've created maps, workout programs for different people and different goals. These are well written workouts, well program workouts that get people phenomenal results.

If you want to try a workout that actually works, one that's written by real personal trainers, go to mapsfitinistproducts.com, check out the programs, find the one that works best for you, sign up, try it out for a full month. If it doesn't blow your mind, you can always return it for a full refund. We have a guarantee on every one of our programs. Go to mapsfitinistproducts.com.

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And because you listen to Mind Pump, you get a discount on all of their products. Just go to paleovali.com, forward slash Mind Pump. That's P-A-L-E-O-Valley.com forward slash mine pump and get 15% off your first order. Did you guys get DMs on that episode on Ben Greenfield's podcast? No, you guys just showed me this. Why wait, lifting is a waste of time. I'm familiar with a guy. Yeah, John J.Quish. He's been clicking Benny any title. He's been popping up in my Instagram feed for at least a year or two now. Yeah, well he's selling a book

and he has a resistance band bar apparatus, it's like 550 bucks for a resistance band. He's pretty jack looking too. Yeah, he looks natural to me. Just kidding. I keep him up. Don't be a hater. I know.

No, you know, I want to address, I want to address that podcast because I listened to what he said on the podcast. I've heard what he says on other things. And it's all so wrong that it needs to be totally addressed. Well, I don't think it's all wrong. There's some truth to some of the stuff that he's talking about. In fact, I don't think that our good buddy, Ben was the best person to interview him on this conversation because Ben uses that.

What's that machine called that he's all about? I don't remember. He's an air axe. Yes, thank you. Thank you. He's been promoting that for a very long time. So he's all about the day of Asprey, 10 minute, 15 minute, you know, super.

Every biohacker, everybody in the longevity space, like geeks out about the least amount of time possible ever that you can work out and like gain some kind of benefit from. Yeah, well, okay, and I'm okay with that, but when you say it's better than... Yes, then the better way of training, when you're saying it's better than progressive overload and volume and straight sets, that's when I have a problem.

Is doing a 10 minute one set to failure routine for each body part better than nothing for some people, which it is? Is it in the same neighborhood as proper traditional resistance training? Not even close. You know, this argument was made a long time ago. In the 1970s, there was a bodybuilder, Mike Menser, who, okay, so you guys know who, who, what was his name?

I can't remember his name, inventor of Nautilus equipment. Maybe you can look it up for me. Arthur Jones. Thank you, Arthur Jones. So Dr. Arthur Jones invented Nautilus equipment. This was some of the first popular like a selectorized equipment.

And his goal was to create resistance equipment that was superior to free weights. One of the ways that he marketed this was he conducted a study. And really what it was, it wasn't a study, it was kind of a marketing thing. But he brought in Casey Viader, who was a body builder at the time. In fact, Casey, it was kind of a marketing thing, but he brought in KC Viator, who was a bodybuilder at the time. In fact, KC Viator was one of these phenom bodybuilders.

I think he won, I want to say Mr. America, Mr. Universe, back then there were a lot of competitions like the Mr. Olympia at the age of 18. It's just like this freak of nature. He brings him in and at the time, KC Viator had gone from being built to being very deconditioned. Apparently, he stopped working out whatever brought him in. At the time, Casey Viader had gone from being built to being very deconditioned. Apparently, he stopped working out whatever brought him in. So now he's lost lots of muscle out stuff. And he took him through a study on one person

where he trained him on Nautilus equipment alone. And the way he trained him was he would do these like super intense single sets to failure per body part rather than the traditional resistance training, bodybuilding routine, like at the time Arnold Schwarzenegger was real popular and he would do 20 sets per body part and that kind of thing. And then he measured KC Viadur's progress.

Now KC Viadur made tremendous progress, but people who understand how the body responds, understand he went in there very deconditioned a lot of the gains that came that came on his body were novel too. It was, well, it was, it was muscle memory. He had, he went in losing lots of muscle, probably came off anabolic steroids, went on during the study and he gained tremendous amounts of muscle, but he used that as a pivot as a way to market, not a squit.

Well, anyway, you got the attention of Mike Menser. Mike Menser put out a book called Heavy Duty, where he said, doing one set to failure was all you needed to do to stimulate muscle growth. And got some followers to follow along. But there's been many studies done on this. And the studies show that volume is also important for muscle growth. And that going to failure is actually too much intensity for most people most of the time. Well, I mean, to me, this just screams like trying to narrow it down to one specific thing

to simplify it to the consumer. So it's nothing more than a marketing ploy to really highlight some of the benefits that we already know about rubber bands, which they do provide benefits. I don't disagree that they should find a way in a workout routine, but this is not gonna replace free weights ever. It's just not gonna happen in terms of like, you know, all the benefits that you're gonna get

from free weights in conjunction with rubber bands. Well, is there a single statement that you find that he said in that interview that is flawed or that is mis-is lacking? Like what do you see? What do you have the biggest quam with this? Because Justin's right, we've already talked about the benefits of bands, right? So we don't disagree with that.

I think there are an incredible tool and there's lots of great research around them. So basically this is what he's utilizing. It's a bar connected to a rubber band that I think a plate that you stand on or something like that. What is it you have the biggest, exactly the biggest problem with this, the statement of him saying that weight lifting is a waste of time. Yeah, well, he says a lot of stuff in there that's marketing based.

It wasn't very much a real science or study that was included in the conversation. He said something like free weights load the joints more than muscles and then referred to, you know, if you just want to throw weights around, you know, train your ego, then use free weights. But that's just not true. Lots of generalizations. You're super. I mean, okay, I kind of get what he's trying to say with the joints versus muscle.

I guess if you're lifting in a half hazard way, if your form is bad, it's worse on your joints than it would be for the muscles, but controlled movement is what trains the body very well. You can control movements with free weights, machines, bands, or body weight. So there wasn't really, he didn't necessarily say anything specific. It was more like variable resistance is better because it trains the muscles to their max at every point of the range of motion. But variable resistance can be applied with free weights as well, where you attach bands or things like chains. Although I would not have the average person mess with variable resistance.

That's a more advanced technique. I wouldn't take a client who just started working out or has been training with me for three months and have them put chains or bands on the bar to do variable resistance. So that's my- The biggest qualm that I have with it is just, is just purely the amount of repetitions that you're expected to do, you know, if you do traditional weight training versus this super high intense way of exercising is, this, this, the theory is that he's doing one set for,

let's just say bicep curls to, you know, extreme intensity. And I guess bicep curls a bad example because it's a simple exercise. Let's take something like a squat, right? So he does, you know, 15 to 20 reps or something like that, right? 20 30, if you say 20 to 30, 20 30 to absolute failure. And then they're done. The problem I have is that that's such a high skilled movement that part of the adaptation process and the benefits of getting good at it is the practice of it and having to do it over

and over and over to get good. Where... Because you learn the skill of it. Right, so I can't imagine me training one of my novice clients on a technique like this, where I go, okay, today I show the exercise because we're only gonna do it one set, right? So I show the exercise, here's the overhead press.

We're gonna do it till you can't do it one more. Yeah, we're gonna do it till you can't do it one more, one time and then we're gonna move on to the next thing. You know, I just remember how many times I had to teach and show and critique over and over and over one single exercise, one of the benefits of doing traditional weight training is that most programs are three, four, five sets

per exercise, so we get some time to practice. But even if you're in that advanced category of people who have really good excellent skill on all these exercises, even if you're one of those people, the study, there's a lot of studies have been done on this and volume is clearly a part of the formula to get muscles to strengthen and grow and to get those positive adaptations.

And they're very, they're looking at this from this very simplistic mechanistic point of view as if, almost, and Mike Menser used to talk about this. I was a big fan of Mike Menser back then. I still think he was an awesome bodybuilder and I think you did bring a lot of cool information. He was just wrong on a lot of the stuff he said. And it's this very simplistic view. It's almost like as if there's a switch that you hit. Once you hit the switch, muscle grows. And how do I hit that switch? Just go super intense one time. We hit the switch and we're done. It's not that simple. It really isn't that simple. There's sets and volume and wraps, there's technique. You can build muscle off of moderate intensity. Olympic lifters have demonstrated this for decades now,

where they practice at a very moderate intensity, but they train quite a bit, and they have these tremendous strength gains. Studies on going to failure show that going to failure versus not going to failure over a period of six weeks, 12 weeks, it's just not as effective. It's better to have a little bit more volume and not go to failure than that go to failure with less volume. We're also not considering the effect it has on the central nervous system. I could take a completely deconditioned person and train them at a low intensity and do 10 sets of an exercise,

and they would be okay. One set to failure would be a way above and beyond to intense for them. Way above and beyond would cause problems. Intensity is very easily overdone. More, it's more easily overdone than even volume and frequency. Volume and frequency take a lot of time.

I can't help but imagine that beginner too overloading the incorrect muscle we're trying to work too. I mean, it's intensity is already easily over applied, then take a novice training as a movement and overload it and tell them you're gonna take this to failure. Not to mention you're overloading the eccentric portion, like they wouldn't normally have, which is interesting.

Like, I just think that there's a lot more in there to consider in terms of like the highlights of going through a natural range of motion with gravitational forces and controlling load, you know, where you actually do have a little bit of relief of muscular tension going through, there's a benefit to that functionally and there's way more life applicable aspects to that. Yeah, and a lot of this, I mean, and this is just the truth,

a lot of what he's saying is very marketing centric. So his target was free weights, but it's obvious why? Because he's selling a piece of equipment that he's saying is the best muscle builder in the world. And so who were you trying to take down off the top of the mountain? It's free weights. It's also very click baity, right? Free weights at waste of time. So people are going to be like, oh my gosh, what is this guy saying? Because every other reputable coach and trainer and strength athletes says free weights are among the best forms of equipment for. Otherwise we'd see it.

Otherwise we'd see it. When you talk about high level sports, where there's millions and millions of dollars, and the studies that he's using and he's touting, they're not new. This isn't cutting edge science that we're talking about right now. You know, variable resistance has been around for a long time and we've known this and there's been plenty of research around. So everything that he talked about as far as what he referenced

has been there. So it's not like this is a new finding. And if it was that valuable, then every professional athlete, every body builder would train this way because it was superior, but it's not superior. That's why none of them do that. Yeah, and there's a, I mean, here's, you know, build maximum muscle with very little time, 10 minutes once a week or twice a week and get the best results, you're like, that should be your first red flag. Exactly. There's a let's like get rich in 30 days, you know, or lose 30 pounds in 30 days. It's, it's, it's along those lines. It's in the category of the fitness space that you can be quite annoying to people who've actually trained real people, lots of real people all the time. If you're trying to maximize your results and get a great physique and also maximize

the time you spend, there's nothing wrong with that. But when they say, when you hear someone say 10 minutes, and it's just as good as a 45 minute or hour well placed door done workout, they can't, they can't, they can't, I know they can make that case too, because this is true. I mean, you've been doing this for a very long time, Sal,

compare you to somebody who is their first week in the gym. I do believe that you could do one set of bands and it be more effective than that kid who walks in and decides to do 10 sets with a barbell. Back technique or barbell. Yeah, Arnold is known for saying that too, right? He could come in the gym and do one set more effective than somebody spending an hour inside the gym. Yeah, but it's very misleading.

It was misleading because then everybody thinks, oh, I can too. It's like, no, because you're so advanced and you understand what you're trying to accomplish by this. Plus, don't compare yourself to someone else. Could I do one set with bands to compete with a traditional workout for me? No.

It would not give me the same results. It would not give me the same results. It would not give me the same adaptations. It just doesn't work that way. So it's very marketing-centric and very, very false. And free weights are among the best most versatile pieces of equipment that are around. There is no machine or piece of equipment that can compare.

I mean, there's a lot of good stuff out there, and we're big advocates in utilizing things like suspension trainers, bands, and so on. But free weights are near the top, if not at the top, when you're looking at performance. They've done lots of studies on this, by the way. They'll do like a barbell squat versus a leg press, which one builds most muscle muscle and then which one improves

sprints speed, which one improves jump height, which one improves stability and strength in a everyday real world movement. And the free weight exercises tend to be superior. On hypertrophy alone, sometimes machines can match, but then when you combine strength and functionality, free weights are just, that's why they're still there. Those were the first resistance training pieces of equipment, by the way. Machines, cables, bands have been around for a very long time. There's a reason why free weights haven't disappeared. They haven't, and it's because they still remain some of the best piece of equipment.

There's a lot of reasons why. That is. The first reason, they're among the most versatile. When you take a machine, that machine is, unless someone designed a machine specifically for you, like... I would make the argument that free motion is up there, right? Because a free motion, you can contour it to your body. There's not too many things that you can't do

with a free motion. Take cables would be the one piece of equipment, I would say, would be up there with versatility because they're free, right? You're still on a track, but yeah, you're able to move at least in the direction that you want your limbs to go. Right, but the machine is still, the free motion is still there.

Yeah. It still can't go anywhere. Right, right. It's still, I'm, the anchor points are still relatively fixed. I mean, I can move the arms, but that's where they go. There's a top and there's a bottom. Free weights follow the person. I could train a 10-year-old with free weights. I could train an 80- 10 year old with free weights. I could train an 80 year old with free weights. I can train any movement pattern. I've trained paraplegics with free weights. They follow the person.

Well, you know, another thing that he didn't really address, too, because think about your guys' clients, right? All the people that you guys train, like how often was it as cut and dry as, let me draw up a program that, you know, builds you the most amount of muscle or just burns body fat. Like that was never the case.

I always had to learn about the person. And 90% of the people I trained, regardless of the goal, had underlining shit that I had to address within their program. So that's the other thing that when you talk about versatility and the benefits of that is, I can take somebody who has discrepancies on one side and the other, and I can modify that with free weights

a lot easier than I can with bands. You totally can. And one of the big mistakes I think a lot of people make is they look at workouts, and they value them from the workout perspective and not from the skill perspective. So in other words, if I'm gonna go work out my legs,

it really doesn't matter what I do as long as I hammer my legs. As long as my legs get sore, as long as my legs get, you know, grow and get stronger, it doesn't matter what I do, but it kinda does matter what you do because that skill acquisition and that practice makes a big difference.

And if a person treated exercise like, like let me put it this way, if you took 100 people and 50 of them treated resistance training like a skill and the other 50, only treated like a workout and you followed them for five years, which group would have more success less injuries, just better progress overall?

Well, it's an example, Justin just did a Friday fitness tip, right? You taught a single arm dumbbell snatch, right? Yeah. So, hang snatch. taught a single, single arm dumbbell snatch, right? Yeah. So, hang snatch. Right, so, okay, sorry, sorry. I got checked on that. Oh, did you?

Anyway, I'll go to you. Yeah. You know, so you could take a set of bands or this apparatus, this guy invented, and you could break down all the different muscles that get worked in that dumbbell snatch that Justin taught, and you could train those muscles. But you would not have the same skill set as the ability of taking that weight, getting

it above your head, and stabilizing the body safely with the dumbbell as you could with the bands, which when you think about real life situations, okay, it's not going to look like in this elastic environment. It's going to be unstable, and that is going to carry over into what you do. The stretch reflex response, like there's a lot more to human movement to consider that, you know, the working with rubber bands, like doesn't really do well with. And I understand from a muscular perspective, everybody wants to increase the amount of muscles involved. That's why those stem machines and they have these monitors

that can show you how active your muscles are in these lifts, which is one consideration, but also what are you actually trying to do with your movement? And I think that is a big part of being able to actually have function and strength in specific directions, not just be able to squeeze really hard. Yeah, and again, bands are actually great. I love bands. I just don't think that they, you could say that weights are a waste of time. I think weights are, again, among some of the best forms of tools for resistance training we should say. But I mean, okay, look, look at the real world, okay.

I'll use an example, let me back up for a second. If I took, if you're listening right now and you had a magic wand and you could wave that over your body and literally tomorrow you wake up with an additional 15 pounds of lean body, just 15 pounds of muscle. you wake up with an additional 15 pounds of lean body. Just 15 pounds of muscle, you wake up with 15 pounds of muscle. You would feel awkward, you would move weird, you wouldn't be able to walk like you normally do,

it would be hard for you to run or throw a baseball or do whatever you could do before because you haven't learned the skill of moving with that body. It's not just about building muscle, it's also about how to use that muscle. I mean, it makes no difference if your car looks like a Ferrari if under the hood, you know, as a force owner,

you can't move, right? So in the real world, when you're lifting and moving things, none of them are attached to cables, none of them are on a track, none of them are free. If you pick up a box, you move a couch, you pick up your girlfriend, when you give her a hug, whatever,

all these things are free moving in the real world. And so even if, and I'm making, this is not true, but I'll pretend like it is true. Even if a machine or a band or something like that could build as much muscle as a free weight, it's still not equal because the transfer to the real world just isn't there. If I can pick up, if I can deadlift a lot of weight, that's gonna transfer more to lifting things in the real world off the ground than if I could deadlift on a machine.

Well, you may be promoting more dysfunction in your movement for everything else. So like, you just wanna consider how you train is that's part of specificity. So you're gonna carry that into now how you lift things in the real world as well, right and free weights also require balance and stability, you know doing a shoulder press On a machine. It's got some value not saying it doesn't have any value But it doesn't require me to balance the weight

In fact, I could lean on the machine in fact fact, if I'm holding handles on the machine, I could lean back on it or pull forward. If I have poor stability in my thoracic spine, doesn't matter, the machine puts me in the right position. Now, if I'm advanced and I want to add volume and I want to isolate the shoulders, get a better pump, sure there's some value there, but compare that to like a standing overhead press.

Standing overhead press, I'm still working the shoulders, but it requires a lot of stability, requires balance. I have to be able to stabilize my body as I hold the weight above my head. Well, there's communication going from your fingertips all the way down to your toes. Absolutely, I mean, everything is, everything exactly, everything is having to speak

to each other where you just you simply sitting on a bench You take half that away then you sit on a bench and then you do it on a track in a machine You take another 25% of that away. I mean, there's a huge difference between Being able to stand up and do an overhead press and being able to shoulder press a machine 200 something I remember I had a buddy of mine who was you know strict bodybuilder And did he didn't do any standing overhead press. He did lots of machine presses, seated presses, he would do seated with the dumbbells,

but nothing overhead. And I remember he came to my studio and we did a workout together and I had him do overhead presses with me. And of course, he had to drop the weight because he wasn't used to standing and stabilizing. And I remember the next day he messaged me and said, my upper mid back is sore from overhead presses.

Mainly because he'd never had to really stabilize his scapula, the same way as he did with the standing overhead press. He said, I didn't realize my mid back, my upper mid back had to really support me that much. He goes in and felt phenomenal. And he went to overhead presses for a while and saw some great development because of that.

So that balance and stability aspects, one of the reasons why it's got some of the best carryover. Professional athletes or athletes in general tend to use primarily for general strength building free weights. That tends to be still still if you go to, like the 49ers gym or whatever, you see a lot of platforms and play to the barbells. Yeah, you'll see rubber bands,

but they're purely accessory. So they'll be like Vertamax or they'll be like things where you're just like, you're highlighting certain skills they're trying to develop. And sometimes it does help in terms of anti-rotation and being able to try and you know get The athlete to respond appropriately and be able to anchor their body appropriately But again, that's why I don't throw it out

But it's not the majority of the bulk of the training for them to build a foundational strength I mean, how do you get away with this? You think that just because of that because we do we all agree right the bands are phenomenal I mean, I think they're a great tool. And I think, I think athletes use them. We use them a lot, but not more than that they use free weights. So what is this? Is it the cherry picking of the data? Is that what it is? Like, if there's so much good information that's related to like variable resistance band training that you could cherry pick all of it to try and make the case.

Well, it's another, I think it's, you know, you can look at all these studies that he'll pull from where it looks great, right? Because it doesn't put a lot of impact on the joints. You know, you can basically highlight and mimic a muscle through its natural strength curve. Like there's a lot of benefits it can highlight. And so it just looks like on paper, a lot of times in the lab, you know, things look really good. The numbers look awesome,

but then you actually apply it to the athletes and it doesn't translate the same. And I think that's really what's going on. Yeah, but the studies on variable resistance are not just bands versus free weights. It's free weights versus free weights with bands attached. Yeah, exactly. That's how they use variable resistance. So power lifters, they're the biggest, I'd say,

strength athletes that use variable resistance like chains and bands. But they're not doing a band only squat for that. They tend to add it to the barbell or they don't replace their traditional lifts with it. It's a supplement. They're also at a very high level. And again, have you guys ever done variable resistance with a beginner or intermediate client? I don't. I don't.

That's a very advanced thing that you apply. It doesn't make any sense. Well, not. Yeah, and also too, like, because the thing is with barbells, you can load, right? And you can be stable and you can load. And I think there is benefit to having breaks in that tension. Think about like mimicking that like three, four, 500 pounds, right?

And I'm going through a squat. And I never get any rest with that. How do you like detach from that? How do you not, you know, when you have a moment of, you know, loss of focus, what that might potentially do with all that force, you know, throwing back down? Yeah, that's an interesting point because I'm sure he makes the case that it's safer, but then I can make the case with it with it. Not when you get up and wait just like a load.

Right, I would think that it would be, that's what the first thing I thought I was training a novice client, you know, they're very new to weightlifting and you are telling them to go to, I mean, I don't, we don't advocate for training to failure to a beginner in the first place. I mean, you could train and build an incredible physique and never go to failure. He's pulling from the research that talks about the benefits of going to failure

and pushing that for every single set. I just think that you have, you increase your risk with a brand new person. Yeah, plus it pulls you to one point. So, another massive difference, because if you wanna just keep adding more potential weight because you want more growth and you want all this excess muscle,

when you go through that range, it's determining where you go. You're on this path, and then if you're anywhere off of that path, it's gonna put your joints in a really weird position. Yeah, that's true. If you're squatting with the band, there's an anchor point, right? So, if you go forward, it's pulling put your joints in a really weird position. Yeah, that's true. Like if you're squatting with the band, it's, there's an anchor point, right? So if you go forward, it's pulling you back.

If you go back, it's pulling you forward. It's determining where you're gonna go. Right, which, and I, you know, imagine failing under a heavy band. Right, exactly. What are we talking about that? Right, and to that point, you go off just a few inches and it's, forget the joints, another muscle you

pull. You pull, you pull another muscle that you, because you get out of alignment doing that. I don't know. I just can't imagine. I could see how someone like this guy who's probably, who ironically is probably be been lifting with, you know, you know, basic weights for 20 plus years of his life now comes out with this tool and then should, I know, basic weights for 20 plus years of his life now comes out with this tool and then should I know what am I going to do? I'm going to go against weights. Yeah. Right. I want to believe that after the two plus decades of weight training consistently myself that if I just wanted to maintain a decent physique, I could totally train just this. Just do bands and get have a decent physique. You could look, you could get a great workout with bands.

Here's the problem, and this is the same problem I would have with somebody who said kettlebells are the be-all end-all. Or even if I had somebody said, dumbbells are the be-all end-all. There's tremendous value in all of these tools. In fact, the best results you're gonna get are from utilizing each one of these tools

for what they're good and best for, right? So machines are phenomenal at isolating muscles. They're excellent at that because they do all the other work for you, right? For building general muscle and strength and functional strength. Free weights are near the top if not at the top. Bands are very, they're very versatile. You can travel with them. That's great. They don't take up a lot of space. They do have the ability to adjust the resistance within the range of motion, which is pretty cool. I think they're a great tool. Do I think I would just do one and not utilize any of the others?

No, that would be totally silly. It's really, it just, it screams, you know, infomercial marketing. Well, it highlights part of the motivation behind us doing what we're doing, right? I mean, one of the things that we were all so annoyed about when we got in the spaces, the camps. I mean, this is just another one of these camps that it's gonna put people in, and the reality is like,

nobody here, at least nobody here, is knocking any of that shit and saying it's not valuable, it's incredibly valuable. The thing that we have a problem with is everybody wants to put everybody into a camp but here is knocking any of that shit and saying it's not valuable, it's incredibly valuable. The thing that we have a problem with is everybody wants to put everybody into a camp that you belong to the powerlifting camp, you belong to the Olympic lifting,

the bodybuilding camp, the obstacle course racing camp. And it's like, listen, all these different modalities are incredible and I think have tremendous value. And it's more about educating people on how to utilize all of them and why limit yourself to just one modality. It makes no sense when we have all of them and are disposed.

Right, and there's this, it's very smart marketing to take something. For example, let's say you're selling a bar with band on it like this guy and you come out and say, bar with band machine is one of the greatest machines for building muscle and strength. You're not gonna get nearly as much attention as you would if you tackled the sacred cow

of resistance training or free weights by saying free weights are a waste of time, subtitle, by my piece of equipment. Yeah, it's just smart marketing. Same old, same old. Yeah, smart money. Did you say he's tied to Tony Robbins? Yeah. Did you say that?

I think he was. Oh, you don't know. No, no, I'm pretty sure he is. We could double check. Oh, really? Yeah, I believe he is. Yeah, it's been floating around for a while. I had a few people tag me back when.

So it's interesting that he's made his way finally to Ben. Ben must have got annoyed by it and decided to bring him on to it. But again, I don't think Ben's the greatest person to talk to about this because Ben utilizes the whatever machine I forget. Ben does everything. Yeah, I know he does. Name one, exercise modality, Ben has not utilized

or done for himself. Ben uses free weights, Ben uses bands, uses body weight, he trains. I symmetric everything. I symmetric, he does everything. So he's somebody that, again, he's that guy I would want to try all these different things. But no, when it comes to resistance training free weights

are they're a staple, that's what I would call them. I would call them a staple. I don't think you should ever take them. I will never fully replace them. But again, if you say something that's so sound, so controversial for the time, you're gonna get a lot of attention. Okay, I'll give you guys a great example.

In the 90s, so last century, the 90s. In the 90s, it was common knowledge. When I say common knowledge, I mean, it was commonly accepted, not necessarily true, but commonly accepted, that low-fat but commonly accepted that low fat diets were the way to go to lose weight. That's what we were preached to. It's what the FDA told us.

It's what we learned in school. And it was the perfect timing for Atkins to come out with his low carb Atkins diet. Now had Atkins come out today, he wouldn't have sold nearly as many books because we've heard low carbs so many times. But he comes out in the 90s and said, oh no, eat all the fat you want, don't eat carbs.

And he exploded. So what this guy's is doing is he's coming out and saying, wait lifting is a waste of time, get some attention. Now do this thing. But that premise is false, it's not a waste of time. Did you get real easy? Did you get real easy? Did you get real easy?

Did you get real easy? Did you get real easy? What, you said century? The last century. Oh, that we can say 1900s. Yeah, the last century. Oh, that we can say 1900s. Oh, okay. Last century. Well, I'm just wondering if he really, like, sort of ramping up his case for this

because now everybody has to train at home. And this was an opportunity to really be divisive with it. Oh, great point. Yeah, I'm sure it's exactly that. Yeah, right. What a great point. And right now, when everybody's having a hard time getting dumbbells.

Yeah. Yeah, I'll get everybody to forget about all of it. Yeah, you don't need them. Yeah, I've got this. It's funny to me. That's probably why he's making his rounds right now when everybody's having a hard time getting dumbbells. Yeah, yeah. You know, get everybody to forget about all of that. Yeah, you don't need them. It's funny to me. That's probably why he's making his rounds right now. Because again, it was at least a year, if not two years ago, I was being tagged on this guy's stuff. And I just laughed at all of this.

Everybody was just like, yeah, whatever. I'll tell you what though, it's funny to me because from, okay, so from what I've read, I think it's maybe Doug can look it up. I think his piece of equipment's 500 bucks. For 500 bucks. 500 dollars? If I'm not mistaken. Really? Maybe Doug can look it up. I think his his piece of equipment is 500 bucks for 500 bucks $500 if I'm not mistaken really maybe Doug can look it up just let me see I thought I heard Ben say that he like has like a barbell that fits in your suitcase attached to it

So the the I remember it being like this little plate that you had like a band and then like an aluminum looking bar That was attached to it. Yeah, there you go. How much is it Doug? 549 get the fuck out of here. Okay, there you go. How much is it, Doug? 549. Get the fuck out of here. Okay, are you serious? All right, so hold on a second. So let's just say you had 550 bucks to spend on equipment. You could buy a pair of dumbbells and adjustable bench,

and you would probably have what, $400, maybe left in your bank account, and you would have pieces of equipment that are more versatile than that. You know what I'm saying? Like dumbbells in a bench, adjustable bench, don't take up that much space. Now, the benefit of bands is that it does

is that it's expensive. Yeah, there it is. Wow, yeah. And it comes with four bands. Yeah, yeah, this dude was like so jacked before. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? That's what I mean. Like okay, sure.

If you've put, you know, 30 years under the iron and then you decide, you know, hey, I'm 60 now, I just wanna do band work for the rest of my life. And I've got good technique. I've already got the muscle memory going on here. Like, okay, maybe, I don't know. Yeah. Still think it's inferior, but I mean,

that $549 is straight laughable, dude. No, that's crazy. For some fans. No, I'll tell you what, if you were gonna get any, if you had some money to spend on equipment and you had enough room for a pair of dumbbells and a adjustable bench, that, I mean, I could train any client with that.

I think that would be your best investment. When it comes to training your body, your best bet, if you want great results, you want to build muscle, you want to burn body fat, you want to do a number one, the programming has to be great. The tool doesn't matter as much as the programming. So you have to have good workout programming. But then on top of that, free weights are great.

Bands have some value. Machines also have some value. And body weight exercises have some value. Don't throw things out because of some mark anyway. All those things have lots of value, and free weights are near the top. And don't get sold either on any one of those things, just simply because you could take any of those things,

you just listed off and show a six week study and show how amazing it is. That's right. You know, anything in a small window like that, it's gonna look amazing. I'd, yeah, put an X x3 bar guy or rubber band guy here Against another guy for four years one guy gets to use way training one guy sees that they're both at starting point and see what show me the Body afterwards exactly look mine pump is recorded on videos as well as audio come find us on YouTube mine pump podcast

You can also find all of us on social media that includes Instagram and also now on parlor You can find just in it mine on social media that includes Instagram and also now on parlor. You can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin, me at Mind Pump Sal, Adam at Mind Pump Adam and Doug at Mind Pump Doug. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a and Obolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Esthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

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