Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 148: The Mind-Muscle Connection

Episode Date: September 14, 2015

What results in more muscle growth, focusing on working a particular muscle or on the movement? Sal, Adam & Justin take on this topic and they don't always agree.

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, pop, mite, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Something interesting happened the other day. You sent us a picture, which was crazy. Of what? The fucking dude with the bird.

Oh, is that not a dude? Justin had just talked about how people with a bird on their shoulder are crazy And we're all laughing and I'm like well, they're probably a pirate and I've never really seen one Oh, yeah, I like my life maybe on Venice Beach when I was a kid he was on a kid literally a dude drives up next to you Oh, I brought the irony is amazing. Oh, I was talking to my girls in my way home from work, right and Amazing. Oh, I was talking to my girls in my way home from work, right? And literally this convertible Chrysler pulls up right next to you. Convertible, see? Convertible Chrysler.

He gave me better than that. And I looked to my left and the dude has a white parrot on his shoulder. And I'm like freaking out, my girl's like, what's wrong? What's going on? I'm like, no, no, no, I'm calling you later. And I hung up on her so I can take a picture. I had to take a picture. I was like, this is crazy.

Because Sal just brought this up on the podcast and you guys were talking or Justin brought up. You made the comment about you, but you should be a pirate, right? You said, those are the only people that should never walk away with a bird on their shoulder or pirates. If you're not a pirate, you're fucking weird.

What are you saying? We're not gonna do a shoulder, dude. So this dude was driving. So we, you know what? I'll send the picture to you. You got a post, you should post it on our, our I might my my my pump you know that reminds me of remember predator How he had that freaking laser gun on his shoulder? Yes, every time you look at turns you're putting it you think it's like that except it's a bird

So you can't shoot shoot with it. So the worst part is like laser in your shoulders bird It's a bird it wants to fly You're you're making it sit on your shoulder and asshole and it's not even out of branch I like on your shoulder to like well, why is it like was it cleaning your ear with its little beak? Well, what is it doing? And we both we both know that at one point it has to take a shit So it just shits down the back to what happens. You know what I'm saying? That's our audience now are people with a snake around their neck as weird?

That's pretty weird too. It's weird. Let's share a WWF wrestler. So that's that one. You're Britney Spears and you're gonna say that. That's hot. If you are a pirate, you're allowed a parrot on your shoulder. If you wrestle in the WWE, if you're allowed a snake or a neck, or you look like Britney

Spears, those are the only options you can put in. But yeah, if you're a wrestler has a burden on your shoulder I just there hasn't done a bird yet. I do feel like it's I do feel like it's a guarantee that you're not gonna get mugged If you have a snake or lay for that matter, I'll be honest. There is an exception if you got a fucking falcon You're a badass That ass. I'm not gonna touch shit. You're like a baldie going around. And it's, you know, get him,

Xperion. And then it flies out and it kills something. I don't know. Xperion. Xperion. You know what, you're right. Either you have to be a pirate or you have to be a Mongolian bird hunter

with a falcon on his shoulder. Have you guys seen those pictures? There's a dude where like, he's got like animal pelts on. And he's got a fucking falcon on his shoulder. And when you look at that picture as a man, you can't help but think to yourself. It's got talons, nothing is a bad-ish.

I look at that picture of the Mongolian fucking Eagle Hunter or whatever he is called. And I look at it, I can't help but think to myself, wow, like it's fucking majestic. I am a pussy. You know what I mean? Like, look at that. And I'm like, I am not nearly as manly as he is

He's got it looks like he has five animal pelts to do his cleaning It's almost like his minion that's up killing and he's got a it's got a falcon That's just it's just digging into his shoulder. Let's get gripping onto his flesh And he just and he doesn't give a shit me fish He's looking off into the, in the distance. And he's on a horse and it's in the snow. He's up in the fucking Himalayas. On a horse, he's got a falcon on his shoulder. He's wearing belts.

Bro, I'm gonna tell you. I got a bone arrow. He, that is, that's so manly that if I, if Adam, me and you stood next to him, we would, people would look at that picture and be like, oh, you brought your wives. He's, it's, you brought your wives Nice to meet your wives. Yeah, yeah

That's how man your bitches you would suck the testosterone out of your body Just standing next to him. I bet he has I bet I bet I mean scientifically speaking I bet his testicles are massive. Yeah, I bet they're huge He's got a special saddle and on on his balls. He's got the cradles He's got a falcon on his shoulder, and then he has a pigeon on his testicles. Okay, so that's a messenger. The massive testosterone. If you guys find that messenger, ball pigeon.

If you guys find that weird, what do you think about, this is a new thing too, I've seen this more and more now. The people that walk their cats. What? Yes, they walk their cats, they have one of the leash and they walk their cats. Oh, one of the leash and they walk their cats. Oh, I will slap you in the bitch face. I'm talking about men that are doing that.

I don't know you could walk a cat. Yeah, remind me. Cats supposed to be like assholes and not want to be told what to do. It's not, yeah, they don't want to walk. I'm going to tag you both on an Instagram guy on a guy that's walking around with the fucking cat on a sleeve Is he is a hipster? He's gotta be totally not really He's totally a fitness icon. How funny is that? You know that being said that's silly that being said. I do like small dogs

I don't know what it is about little dogs. I just love them. I don't know I just like walking like I eat my my parents had a when I was growing up They had a mini dot son for a second. They also had a pit bull, by the way. So we had two dogs, we had a pit bull, a 90 pound pit bull, and then it got eaten, and a mini dot son. And the mini dot son was gangster.

And I used to walk him and people would look because I was kind of, I was, you know, I'm a relatively, but I'm not a huge guy, but I'm a relatively big guy, and I'm walking around this little dot son. And you know, when you look at it, it's like a little dick walking on the end of a, you ever seen a mini dot son? Yeah, we know, don't. at, it's like a little dick walking on the end of a, you ever seen him in the dot-son? Yeah, wee-ner dot-son.

Yeah, it's, it's, they barely, they barely cover, it's like a low ride of a dot-son. Like, if you go over a bump, you have to like, lift up your whole personality, so. He's a little, yeah, he's a little badass. Yeah, they're good. But I like little dogs. Yeah, no, little dogs.

Like, like, Doug's dog. What's her name again? Bella. Bella. She's a bad little bitch. Did you adopt her? Did you actually go out and approach us that? No, we, purchased her. So you need say we you know what yeah, okay I just as long as there was some sort of a woman's decision in that

No, it's my daughter I gotta say if Doug went out and bought that as cute as that little furry little fucking curly white hair dog is if Doug Went out there and bought that all by himself. You gotta get a matching person. Yeah, exactly. Hey, now. Because Bella's awesome. I like Bella. Oh yeah, of course.

I have a nice, awesome daughter. Exactly, you get to have no reason we bought her in the first place. That makes a perfect sense is what we're trying to say. That's what I'm saying. He did not have a nine year old daughter that helped him pick that dog. I would say something to Doug.

I'd have to give him a shit, but I'd say this dog is a little too cute for you. You know what, Doug, better make up with it with a bike collar. You might need to get a falcon. It's a guy, you gotta get him. We gotta falcon you up, bro. You're falcon. You're too falcons.

Get you one falcon and a smaller one is that on the falcon. So you've got a two layered falcon. I just army on your shoulder. I've always thought, I've always thought it's for this. It's strange guys that are like into cats. You know, dudes that have like lots of cats or whatever lots of cats is weird One cat is okay. Yeah, I like it over a dudes. I like cats, but it's just not it's just not you're I don't know if you like into it You know in the cats like that was an issue

We I would we managed to irritate 90% of our audience every episode. Yeah, all you cat, you know, lovers out there. Hey, you know, to eat their own. I mean, like we say, we all can, we all make fun of it. But if you are, if you're a single person and you have a lot of cats, it's kind of weird. Man or woman, I don't know, you know, cat ladies are kind of, you know,

it's a little strange. Or a spider guy. No, fuck spiders, dude. I don't know, you know, cat ladies are kind of, you know, it's a little strange. Or a spider guy. No, fuck spiders dude. I don't like spiders. Spider guy? Spider's a weird. Yeah, you're a piece of people in those age ramps and they got like a big old for the first. Did I even tell you guys, can I talk about this?

I have a great story. Another spider story? No, it wasn't even spider, it was snakes. So I used to live in this house. It was like a fraternity house. I wasn't in fraternity, but I was living upstairs with one of my friends. And this guy down the hallway, and I turned out,

like later on, we became friends and everything, but I was like, this guy's fucking weird. He's got long curly red hair. He's tall as fuck. It wants to be in the WWE. And he has a snake. And he's got not just a snake. He had like 20, 25 snakes.

Wow. And like they were big dude. They're like pythons and everything. So anyway, like I met him and then, you know, actually he's a really nice guy and he's funny and everything. And we ended up moving into a house in San Jose. And anyway, so I lived like, in this room, right next across the hallway from his room.

And, uh, one night I get home from work and I was working at this restaurant and I come in and I'm all tired. It's like one o'clock in the morning or something. And, uh, I turn the lights on and I open the sheets and this fucking snake jumps out and like, tries to bite me. And you're bad in my bed

I was like Grabbed by a neck and threw it into the grab the snake. Yeah, I grabbed it through I'm so freaked out. I'm like I'm gonna kill it I saw I knew his pet you know and I'm like that could have been a lot worse That could have been a lot worse it could have been at the bottom of the bed. You could have snuck in the bed I just thought I was just thinking like if I would have just crawled in and not even known and then it would have been on I could you would have found it would have found a dark warm Cavernous

You would have had there, but you would have had some penetrations. You would have gotten some anal from the fuck. Hey, where are you? So Sal, were you starting to laugh? I got I was starting to laugh as soon as Justin told the story because it was a college fraternity story. I remember the last time the squirrels. Yes. The last time it was the most epic story he's told online, but yet if you have not listened to it, you have to go back and listen to squirrels

and sparkly taints when Justin's telling the story He's like and then that's pretty much it Because I interrupt it up and he's like I wasn't even finished bro I'm like, oh sorry, dude. Sorry. No finish your story that he tells like two lines and he goes that's pretty much it There's like to wrap it up There's some weird people out there like the like the bearded lady, bro I don't want to say too loud. I don't want her to hear me, bro. We have a bearded lady in our in our complex Come on, guys. No, no, it's not that every time.

It's so awkward. She just gets so nervous. She's like, she can hear us. She's literally the building right next to us. No, not the building. She's like, I mean, the wall next to us, well, that's what I meant to say. The room next to us. Yeah, because she's a massage there. I'm sweating. I'm gonna fucking whisper broke. Well, I find this very weird there. Why are we whispering? There's you know, I'm saying man, we're gonna sound you room Just just to say anything like I like to be nice to be The most part of the thing which nothing means she's just a bearded lady. Yeah, she has a beard

I think that it's not really a full beard though. Well, it's sparse. So, it's like, it's like Billy goat-esque. I just find that weird though. You're a massage therapist. There's certain things like I feel like that they're important. Like, you're hygiene, you're cleanliness,

you're beard, those things, just like even me, I would, if I'm a massage therapist, I'm rubbing you so that, like I got this dirty, manly looking beard right now. And it's kind of rugged and cool because I'm a massage therapist, I'm rubbing you and so that, I've got this dirty, manly looking beard right now, and it's kind of rugged and cool because I don't massage people. If I have a massage people, I would shave. But your beard is trimmed and shaped. Yeah, yeah.

Persons like, it's like, what does it look like? You know when you put a potato in water and then the like the white, one of those claws, like, it'll be on the bottom. It's terrible. It's like that. I'm trying to paint the blue. I'm trying to paint. and then the like the white one of those calls like it's terrible I'm trying to paint the picture I'm trying to paint the picture

it's like sparse long like they're searching searching for water yeah yeah yeah they are kind of like long and rude it almost looks like but you know it's hair on the chin wow or it's like that would be bad. It's not been in it.

It's not white mole. It's just like has those years behind it, like the long story. Oh, I haven't got it. It's looking that hard. You guys look that hard. I'm afraid to look that hard. That's probably something.

Bro, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, I get nervous in situational. She's gonna kill us. I get nervous in situational like that because I'm gonna tell you a guy who, like, you know, if you have a booger in your nose or you have something in your eye,

like I wanna tell you, like I'm that, you know, I'm talking to, hey bro, hey, Sal, you got to get someone right here. That's great. But what I'm the type of guy who like, you know, if you have a booger in your nose or you have something in your eye, like I wanna tell you, like I'm that, you know, I'm talking to Hey bro, Hey, how you guys, you know what, that's what we do right here for this. That's great, but what I'm talking about. I'm like, oh, she has to know. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is a good, so I feel like I need to tell her,

Hey, like, hey, you missed this, bro. You know what, bro, we're not being nice right now. I'm just, we're not telling her. Yes. Oh. I think Adam should go tell her Justin. What the fuck? No, listen, I have to.

Because bro, your handsome, dude, you brought it. This is what you're gonna say to her, you're gonna go up to her, I'm gonna help you out, Ryan. Send the duff. No, listen, I have to. Because bro, your handsome. Did you brought it? This is what you're gonna say to her. You're gonna go up to her. I'm gonna help you out, Ryan. I said the duff. No, no, I'm gonna tell you. I'm sending you.

Duff sits this one out. No, you're gonna go over there, Adam, and you're gonna be like, hey, you know, you're gonna inquire about massage. So then she's gonna start thinking about. How good could it be? Yeah, yeah, she's gonna listen, fuck shit. Shut up, listen.

She's gonna think about how she's gonna be able to put her hands all over your muscle about it. Do ducks, and then you're gonna let us record or air this episode. You should probably like approach it shirtless. No, and then you're gonna go up to it and I say, can I just say how uncomfortable I am? Yeah, I duck stuck a little air this bro.

Listen, you're gonna go up to it, you're gonna inquire massage, and then when she starts talking about you're gonna say, you know, say, please don't take any offense to say, but you're beautiful. I find you a very attractive woman, you're very pretty. Oh my God, thank you so much. So you flew in a little bit and then you say this to her. Then you say this to her.

God, if you, you know, if you just shave that beard, I would be, it would be irresistible. I wouldn't be able to control myself. Whoa dude. Just like that because it's already good. And it was just thinking, what do I do when she shades herself and tomorrow she knocks on the studio door?

Adam, wait for my date. Nothing, you do nothing. And you just, you just cold. Did I cold all of it? And you know what I do? I go like, this whole time actually it was Sal who wanted me to come and say this to you, but he was really nervous to talk to you. So he's totally excited. Or, or what we could do is we could have, or we could help her braid it.

So she looks like, who is that right, that wrestler, Lew Albino? What was it? Albano, what was his name? So dude, who had the rubber bands in his hands? I was gonna have to edit so much of this. Oh, that was cool. All right, what was his name? So, dude, we had the rubber bands, and as far as we could have the edits so much of this. Oh, that was fun. All right, what was that question we should post the go through? What was the question we're gonna go through the Q&A?

Oh, you know what, my buddy Mike, how long have we been on? I got a little bit talking about nothing for. About 17 minutes. Oh, that's okay, that's fine. Why did you do a sexy voice all of a sudden? That was weird. That was weird.

That was weird, right? Did you get so they called that sudden? That was weird. That was weird. Did you get so they called that word? You did, you called that word there. That was a sexy voice. That was a frustrated voice. Oh, that was frantic. Oh, I think. No, I think not getting sex.

I think Doug has a female beard fetish a little bit. I think he got him turned on a little bit. I think ever since we've done this whole dating thing thing, I think he's concerned that, you know, these women that he's gonna end up dating, they're gonna go back on this the episode. He wants to make sure he sounds good on the right now. Yeah, like he takes care of us. Yeah, she's like, wow, you have a sexy foist.

Oh yeah, I'm sure, dude. Yeah, thank you. On the producer. On the producer. On the producer. You have it notice on the one who tells you that he's gonna join it. Oh, fuck.

We need to move on. I'm getting comfortable with all this freaking sexiness coming through the mic. All right, what was the question? What was it? So so my my key is my key who's also a turn it up a trainer So weird my my my key is a is a trainer and over at OTF he wants to know Mike, Mike, he is a trainer and over at OTF, he wants to know what our thoughts are on mind muscle connection, the correlation between thinking about contracting a muscle and actually doing it.

How important would we say it is? Okay. And he specifically says, I would like to hear Sal go on one of his nerdy tangents. Ooh, wouldn't we all? Well, if you extrapolate the data from the, empirically speaking. All right, so my Namussel connection, let's explain, that's a hard way to trans, we're going from here to the 82.

I was just thinking about that. All right, how is this going to look? Let's just run on my mouth. I hit the brakes. Okay. So when you know it's unfortunate, we lost the people that wanted to hear. Five times five and 25. And now the people that wanted to hear some information. Five, five, 25. And now the people that stayed in,

you basically the other version. That's what you fucking get. You're not patient. You don't get to hear the fucking information. That's right. You just doubt on that. That's what they say. You don't deserve it.

You don't deserve it. You don't deserve it. So here's the deal. My end of muscle connection, this refers to, when you're working out, you're doing, let's say a compound movement, let's say I'm doing a bench press, and I'm really concentrating on focusing,

on feeling the movement in my chest. More so than in the other muscles that are lifting the weight like my shoulders and triceps. So that's what he's referring to and he says the mind and muscle connection. Now, scientifically speaking, there's very little evidence to support whether or not this makes a difference.

However, athletes in particular, bodybuilders talk about this all the time. Now, the science does support, I will say this, science does support the mind and muscle connection in regards to correctional exercise. When I'm training someone, I'm trying to change a muscle recruitment pattern. I will have them consciously focus on activating a particular muscle. I'll help you. Because I'm trying to change the recruitment pattern. Go ahead. How can one see rolling your eyes? Well, yeah, I mean, because that statement itself is almost contradictory, because how for rehabilitation reasons, our muscle imbalance is the mind muscle

connection has shown that it's proven that it is important and works and makes a difference. But yet, it's not a muscle is important and works and makes a difference. But yet, it's not a muscle. And I think... I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Just because the studies aren't there. Well, no, there's no studies there.

And there's evidence going in both directions. Let me give you an example. If I take two people without any muscle imbalances, and I have them do a big compound movement like a squat, and one guy I focus on, perfecting his form and moving weight. I just want perfect form and move the weight. And then the other guy, I say, I want you to focus on your quads. Just focus on squeezing your quads. The guy that's moving the weight will probably get better results and build more muscle than the guy that's just focusing on quads. Now, that's not taking away from the mind and muscle connection. That's just an example of how it can go

in either direction because then on the flip side, if I'm doing a leg extension or a sissy squat or something where I'm trying to isolate and squeeze a muscle and getting more of the exercise than it's gonna do if I'm not feeling it, then the mind and muscle connection can be important. So I think it depends on the exercise and how you apply it. And also where you're at and you work out, if it's your fourth exercise on how you apply it. And also, where you're at in your workout,

if it's your fourth exercise on your chest or your back, you might be better off rather than trying to move away because you're fatigued to sit there and try and squeeze and feel a particular muscle. If that makes sense, but I think if you focus all you ever focus on is feeling a muscle, a particular area while you're working out, then you get stuck in that trap

and I've seen people in the gym do this, where every fucking exercise they do, deadlift squats, bench, everything is in this really super concentrated gotta feel the chest, gotta feel the quads, gotta, and they don't really build substantial muscle. That mentality is just for isolating technique, right? It's trying to, I mean, that falls in line

with the split routine, that falls in line with like aesthetic. But as far as that goes, like, I don't know, for me, I look at the body as one unit and things that, the more ways that I can contribute other muscles into the movement, the better. Yeah, I would say, I'm sorry. I just gonna turn into a fund debate now. I can see where we're all going.

Oh, yeah, this is what you're going to. Well, no, I think I agree I agree with both you knuckleheads completely What come on? We want listen I agree with you guys Now I'm gonna episode over put you in your place. Oh, no, no, not at all I think as the guy with the biggest arms in the room Obviously I've been focusing better than these guys. No, just super focused. So it I think that's I think that's where you have to separate. So the sciences we are a little behind on the science here because the sciences are are proving in the in the muscle building factor to you. I brought this up before if you follow

Yeah, I've seen that. Are they showing now the better muscle growth? They have said, or they're just showing he's activating it more. No, that's why they make him focus and activate it because they've shown the correlation between. And this is the professional body builder Ben Pauwitz is last name. Ben Pauwick, right?

Yeah, so, yeah. And he's a big dude though. Yeah, he's connected to the muscle proof. Muscle proof, I think is what. Muscle professor? Yeah, the muscle professor, who's bodybuilding.com's PhD. So how didn't, wasn't he like, they were testing him as he was working out, right?

So you had like machines hooked up with like EK, not EKGs, what are those called? So they were able to show the, I believe the neuron recruitment in an area. So like if he was doing a bicep flex, they would be doing it and they would to show the, I believe the neuron recruitment in an area. So like if he was doing a bicep flex, he would be doing it. And they would be showing the, as he's doing the bicep curls, the recruitment that's happening. And then when they would tell him like, focus, focus. And he'd be like focusing more.

You would see that spike and you would see more recruitment going on. Of course. So in that area, which- But isn't that just for recruitment? I mean, I don't know. But that's where I'm getting at is that they have studies The show that that's what correlations is so I'm just saying that we're there stuff for us to definitely learn in this department That I know that I I've little I've seen I'm not an expert by far on any this but I know enough that and then personal

Personally, too, so you're what Justin was saying I think is is so important to note is that it really is kind of like your goal. And because, and him and I are a complete opposite on kind of how we train and both have obviously had excellent results in muscle growth and whatever whatever it is we're trying to do, just different focuses. Mine is so geared on aesthetics that I am. I'm trying to focus on specific areas that I'm trying to form and shape. So for me, like, see if I can give an example. So bench press, you know, so Justin and I might get together

and we might decide we just did this not too long ago. We're gonna lift heavy bench. And if you watch how he benches and how I bench is completely different, now he's much stronger than I am. And, you know, I think a part of that reason is that that's how he trains to move that fucking weight. And you can see it when he does it. He utilizes every every part of his muscle perfectly in order to lift that weight up as efficiently

as possible. And yet you kill me on the muscle endurance end of it, right? When we get towards the the multiple sets and towards the end of it as we're bringing it back down, I was like dying, getting up into like the 15 rep range. Which kind of goes to show what, how I, because it's a plus. No, that's more of a result of just, he does more of the higher rep stuff than you. Well, yeah, that's part of the adaptation for sure.

Yeah, so, and then if you watch so that, you know, like how I'm training, I do not want anything, not that I don't want anything because it's impossible. It's impossible, first of all, you guys don't know this, it's impossible to isolate a muscle, much less a part of a muscle. But while I'm lifting chest, I am trying to concentrate 100% on resisting

with my chest and get as much of that weight movement primarily being used by the chest. And I am, you can see that by the stance too, like with your arms, like the width, and then, and I can see to like maybe not quite like the depth, but more like the, the, the, the concentration on the contraction there at the chest, you could see it as you're like pressing it up. There's a lot more of like squeezing effect to it, whereas I don't

even concentrate on that. What would you say this, Adam? Because I'm not, I'm not saying that concentrating on a muscle is not a good thing, and not at all'm not, I'm not saying that concentrating on a muscle is not a good thing and not at all. The argument I'm making is that it works well with some exercises and when there's a, let me kind of finish what I'm saying too. So what I don't have evidence to support and what,

so let's say Justin and I, Justin, let's exactly his way I lift my way. And I'm saying mine's for static Justin saying that his is for overall strength he wants to build. To be honest with you, his way is superior for overall strength because he is. He's he's one. He's going to end up moving more weight that way. He's going to incorporate other other muscles to help that. And like he was saying, like he's looking for overall performance of his entire body where I'm looking for a specific area. So for him, for overall, if you're just a person who wants to build strength and is looking for overall

fitness and like the evidence supports that that's the direction to go for sure, you know, in the business of sculpting and stuff like that, it's different. So I may lag in the overall strength department because of how I lift because of that, but it's once again, it goes back to, I'm so concentrated on shaping a certain way. And I guess it's kind of like if Justin and I both had a block of wood and we're trying to whittle away, he's using a chainsaw and I'm using a little scalpel. And he's going to make, he's going to be able to take bigger chunks out and more progress for sure the way he trains.

And that overall, if you're looking for that, that is the way to go. If you're looking for something that is more aesthetic based and I'm less concerned about overall performance then. Well, so here's where I go with that. So here's what I meant by different exercises. If somebody is lifting, again, let's say they're doing a squat and they're trying to really squeeze and focus on their quads. They will burn the quads out faster and they will find that they fatigue faster with a lighter weight.

Yeah, you're also going somewhere where I think there's a place for this for different movements. Squatting and deadlifting. All right. I put in a separate category than I would put like that. Well, okay, so bench press even, or an overhead press even, you know, focusing on the prime mover

like the chest, the shoulders. If you're squeezing, focusing on the prime mover like the chest, the shoulders. If you're squeezing and focusing on the chest, you're gonna feel the chest more with a lighter weight at lower load, correct? Yeah, where did you say, okay. And you're gonna get more recruitment of that chest with lighter weight. However, if you add more weight and push,

you're still gonna get more recruitment. So I think you're looking at two different ways of recruiting more muscle. What else are you also gonna get more recruitment of So I think it's, you're looking at two different ways of recruiting more muscle. What else are you also going to get more recruitment of? Shoulder's triceps. Exactly. And here's what I was gonna say.

If you're a bodybuilder training with multiple sets, perhaps you don't want to overload your body as much with maximal weight, but you still want to maximize muscle recruitment. So this might be why bodybuilders tend to do this because they're minimizing damage while maximizing some of the effects. Now, I would say you could correct that by changing the type of workout you do rather

than doing a body part split where you're doing, you know, 15 or 20 sets for your chest, for example. But I will say this, some exercises lend themselves very well to concentrating. Look, if you're doing curls and you're just focused on moving weight, you're not going to get big biceps that way with curls. It's just, you're better off using lighter weight and focusing on the movement. Now, if you're doing a deadlift, you're better off focusing on maximizing your form and lifting heavy.

More bang for your buck. Much more bang for your buck. And then if we take it to another step and we do pull-ups, for example, if I sit there and try and isolate my lats, overall, it's not going to be as effective as if I'm trying to perfect my form and do as much weight as I can for set number of reps. So I think it's a technique that should be utilized properly. And I also think it's a technique that should not be used by beginners except for correction and lecture size.

I'll tell you something right now. Look, Adam, you've been working out for a long time. You can get that mind and muscle connection on a level that a beginner or intermediate person has no fucking clue. They don't, they won't be able to, they can't do it. I could ask you right now to flex your left lat sitting in that chair and you could do it, right?

I could take the average person who's been working out for three years to flex their left lat and they wouldn't, they wouldn't know how to do it. Most people don't even have a bounce, they're chest, you know, a little tip bounce that dudes do that looks annoying. A lot of people can't even do that and they wouldn't know how to do it. Most people don't even rebalance their chest, you know, little tip bounce that dudes do that looks annoying. A lot of people can't even do that and they work out all the time.

Well, that's being able to connect to that particular muscle. So, you know, again, this is, sometimes you see the advice of bodybuilders and athletes come out and it really applies to a small percentage of people trying to build muscle. Okay, I want to piggyback off that. This is why I always, I try my best to at least say this in my Instagram, those that follow and listen,

is that, you know, I by no means endorse the way I train myself for the average person, whatsoever. Yeah, you do a good job of clarifying it when I read your things though. You do say, this is more of an advanced technique and I've seen that quite a bit. Or this is for the sport of the reason,

or this is for the sport of it, things like that, that why I trans, I mean, the way I do not, I mean, aesthetically I'm the best shape of my life, but I am not in the best overall shape of my life. I've been stronger, I've been faster, I've been healthier for sure. I'm banged up, I'm banged up for sure.

I feel like an athlete. And that's the part where I remember where Craig and I used to debate all the time because he's like, if you're a man, so you're not an athlete if you get up there, bodybuilding is not a sport. Like, okay, fair enough, you can say you're not, it's not a full contact sport like football and you're not competing like that against another man.

But at the same token, the training that goes into, into it is what sport like. There's a part where I neglect just like a sport would, I neglect what's best for my body a lot of the times and for the greater good of the sport to continue shaping my physique a certain way. And I think what we're all, and I think the way we design maps, the stuff like that,

is to present this to the average person who was looking for overall health fitness and a balanced, great looking physique. And this is the best approach for that, especially if you're not advanced. Now, that being said, that's how I definitely started. And now in order to keep this physique to where I'm at now,

like I have to maintain it by doing all this kind of ridiculous weight training and stuff that I wouldn't do, you know? I know already that when I hang up the competing thing, you know, I'm gonna have to come down to probably about 200 pounds to high 190s to keep the leanness and the way I feel without having to be so neurotic about how much food I need to consume

and how hard I need to be pounding the body, because I know, I'm no idiot. I know I'm working against my body where it wants to be actually. There's definite exercises that, you know, mind and muscle connection works well, you know, side laterals, rear laterals, front laterals, bicep curl, tricep extension, you know, any type of isolation movement, it makes sense. Look, when I was younger, I would do side laterals, and I'd treat them like a fricking heavy power exercise, and I'd grab 40 pound dumbbells.

That is a good thing. Yeah, thrown it. And I could use 20s now, and really connect to that side deltoid, and get a much better results from it. Now, that being said, when I do a shoulder press, I'm going for good form and heavy weight. So it really depends on the exercise quite a bit.

But unless you're like advanced, you've been working out for a long time, you know, really sitting there trying to like isolate, you know, particular muscle with this big compound movement, like I'm doing a barbell row and I'm trying to squeeze my lower lads and my, you're not going to do as well if you just focus on form, focus on moving weight. And I mean, I guess that's kind of just the point. Yeah, support your spine. That's the other thing. Right.

You have to consider it. It'd be great if you could always feel like the specific muscle you want involved, but a lot of times, and that's why it makes sense for the corrective phase you're talking about. Oh yeah, because you need them to feel. You need to feel how it should feel.

Really, you need to establish recruitment patterns. That's the biggest part in the beginning is that you need to establish the right mechanics for specific lifts. If you don't even have that connection made yet, you really should focus on that in particular. Do I feel this in the right muscle? I'll also add even if you get too far into the mind and muscle connection, if every workout becomes, I'm trying to feel the target muscle and squeeze it with every exercise, you actually will create recruitment patterns that are not favorable for everyday movement. And I've seen it a million times.

I'll see the bodybuilder deadlift, and it looks like they're doing an interesting, like a row type movement with the deadlift, or I see them doing a squad or a bench press, and they're positioning their body in a way to work that particular muscle, but it's not in a very efficient way for particular movement.

So then they go out and they take the deadlift is not just about back, it's not just about what we do. Yeah, it's your whole body. It's your whole, and then they go, you can't look at it as a, this is a back and leg exercise. And then they go to the park and go run around the bases a few times with their kid and they hurt themselves. Yeah, because their body, now they've trained it to work on this isolated type of movement.

So, I think part of what probably makes Micah, they've trained it to work on this isolated type of movement. So. I think part of what probably makes Micah, I believe Micah's an NASM trainer, I believe that was his certification. So I believe that's what he holds, which you remember. They're heavy in the correction of exercise. Well, heavy into that and proprioception,

like that's a big, I believe there's a whole section on, kind of spent so long, so I've looked over my anasum, right? It's one of the seven phases or whatever they work on as your proprioception and increasing. Well, is it, yeah, the reactive and stability. Yeah.

And a lot of that is, is working on that whole mind, muscle connection. So, and they put a lot of emphasis in that area. You know, it's a tough one to explain because it's so many ways that we can debate it either way. I 100% agree when we're talking about, especially when you're talking about big compound movements like that, being able to progress to a heavier weight is going to give you an overall benefit by far. But I also feel like someone who is in the time to learn the mind muscle connection and, you know,

Okay, this exercise I should primarily feel here. That's the major mover. These are the secondary ones. So I should feel it in all these places, but this is primarily where I should be feeling it is also a great Indicator of form when you don't have somebody around. So one of the best ways I know when my form is on or off and that's kind of how this is also how I gauge like let's say I get in and you know I have plans of four sets of 12 and I'm going to be you know working at 80 or 90% of an intensity and we're doing dumbbell presses and I get on there and I start dumbbell pressing and I'm at like let's say rep 8 on my four set and my chest is just toast and now it's just like shoulders and triceps I feel like, let's say rep 8 on my four set and my chest is just toast. And now it's just like shoulders and triceps. I feel like our muscle everything.

I'll probably set the weight down. I won't even finish. I won't go to 12 reps. And I know, even though I could probably muscle out those last 12, I won't. I'll shut it down because I already know that all these other secondary muscles are overloading. So you know, you can distinguish like which one is the prime mover? Yeah. You know, in that instance.

That's a great point, though, as far as form is concerned, because if you haven't established that recruitment pattern to identify the prime mover, you don't even know if you're not doing it right. I even know if you're in the right positioning, but brings you back to Sal, mentioning optimal, mentioning, like, optimal positioning for the shoulder and like how, you know, you need that retraction, you need it depressed. And this is now where it's in its most optimal functioning position. But, you know, unless you've established the fact that you can feel your own voids, you know, and all these other contributing muscles that are going to pull you into the right position, you know, where all these other contributing muscles that are gonna pull you into the right position,

you know, where do you begin? I'll say this too, you need to have a relatively, and I mean relatively, because it's on an individual basis, but a relatively substantial amount of muscle to have a mind muscle connection. No, this is true, listen. When I first started fucking working out,

I'm gonna say that to a client, so they're like, obviously not. Yeah, right. I can't feel it in my arms, I can't feel it to a client. So this is Captain Obvious now. Yeah, right. I can't feel it in my arms. I can't feel it in my arms. I'm just, wow, that's cause you don't have any fucking arms, dude. Yeah. I can't just say that.

I don't know if you were recording. I'm gonna be the guy that's gonna say. Okay, I'm gonna be the guy that's gonna say. So what do you, you don't have much? Well, do you remember? You have curbed your arm. Do you remember the first time you felt your blots? You remember remember that? Oh, I know it wasn't your first back workout It was much later when you started to build lats and then you started to pulling like oh fuck

I have a pump and what that's my lats right? I could feel them so that my point is if you're if you're if you're unless you're advanced Then you're sitting there trying to squeeze these other if you haven't built some muscle there You're not gonna have that much. I'm not gonna squealing. I can't feel my wrong ball because you have so jiggly. Why? I want to feel something. So don't forget to rate and review us on iTunes and please subscribe to our show. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. For more information about this show and to get valuable free resources from Sal Adam and Justin, visit us at www.minepompradio.com. Until next time, this is Mind Pump.