Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1590: How to Use Failure & Rejection to Get What You Want in Life With Jen Cohen

Episode Date: July 5, 2021

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Jen Cohen who provides practical advice about the mindset that has fueled her success in multiple industries and endeavors despite failing over and over. When Jen first met Mind Pump. (2:10) Why being underestimated can be a good thing sometimes. (6:05) How learning and taking action will get you to where you want to be. (7:28) Why being curious is her superpower. (9:30) How regret is worse than rejection. (13:20) The importance of building relationships and being interested. (16:16) Using that ‘chip on your shoulder’ to fuel you and NOT define you. (19:05) The lessons learned through fitness. (25:31) Defining your core values and non-negotiables. (27:33) An insight into the man who holds her down. (31:16) Why she believes everyone is the same. (42:44) The differences between her male and female clients and how she coaches them through that. (45:26) Why the better you know yourself, the more you know what you want. (48:48) So, you want to be a podcaster. (50:16) Why if you don’t have good content, no one will listen. (52:48) Being comfortable with asking the tough questions and being radically honest. (54:45) Getting over the scarcity and abundance mindset. (1:07:33) Her system to building long-lasting relationships. (1:10:05) How many episodes has she not aired? (1:15:52) Why different perspectives are always great, but they must bring value and communicate properly. (1:20:55) Get yourself a person to balance you out. (1:25:15) Featured Guest Jen Cohen (@therealjencohen) on Instagram Website Habits and Hustle Podcast Related Links/Products Mentioned July Promotion: MAPS HIIT and the No BS 6-Pack Formula 50% off!  **Promo code “JULYSPECIAL” at checkout** Visit PRx Performance for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code “mindpump5” at checkout** Mind Pump #930: Jennifer Cohen Knows How To Get What She Wants The Secret to Getting Anything You Want in Life given by Jennifer Cohen | Jen Cohen | TEDxBuckhead Habits and Hustle Episode 117: Sal Di Stefano – Mind Pump Host, Top Fitness Podcast in the World How to Win Friends & Influence People Home | smartless Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Dr. Becky Campbell (@drbeckycampbell)  Instagram Joe Rogan (@joerogan)  Instagram Jim Kwik (@jimkwik)  Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we interviewed our good friend, Jen Cohen. She's the host of the Habits and Hustle podcast. And to be quite honest, she's one of our favorite entrepreneurs.

She talks all about how to build businesses, build relationships, be bold and be successful. You are gonna want to listen to her. She knows what she's talking about. You can also find her on Instagram at the real Jen Cohen and Cohen spelled C-O-H-E-N. Now this episode was brought to you by our sponsor PRX. They make some of the best home gym equipment,

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incorporating the ab wheel. So if you already own it, great, if you don't, don't worry, signing up, again, you'll get that coupon code. So it's very inexpensive, half off, great price. Go check it out. This is how I wanted to open this anyways and share a story about you and my first impression of meeting you.

So I don't even remember how we originally got connected and how you do. So tell me how we originally connected before. Now we are on already or no. Yeah, so we're going. Okay, so we met originally because I believe I had a book out at the time that Jennifer Bhutiani called was helping me with press with that book or something, and she called you. Okay.

And not you or like my pump. I didn't even know who you guys were at the time. And I think you guys, that's how it happened. And like I needed to have like some like fitness PR to help push this book. And that's how she called it. I think you were kind of not when I say you I mean the my pump media. Right, right, right. You, you, you, you, you, mostly probably you Justin. Now that I saw that whole boldness statement. She's still holding on. I am holding on. I am holding on.

There's a compliment. I know. It's funny how people perceive that. I know, but they were like boldness. What's the, you know, like what you said it was so like, you're like insulted by the way. And you just like, What's the point?

You're fully inaccurate. I know, but still, I wouldn't approve you wrong today. But anyway. Wait me over, Jen. I'm gonna try. Yeah, you're gonna win over time. You're gonna win over time. The same as what we're just mentioning about you know what.

So anyway, so she contacted you guys. I think you guys were kind of on the fence because you didn't know who I, you know what I think about me. Okay, so that's exactly where I remember it, right? So I don't remember who did what and I just remember it came across my desk at one point. I briefly kind of looked at the book and I'm like, who's this girl?

And you must have had somebody really good on your team doing this because to be completely honest, at first glance, it wouldn't be enough to have me invite you on the show. We hardly have anybody on the show as it is. So normally I'm looking for something very specific. We thought, ah, hell, let's do this. Let's meet her and let's see. At least we don't have to air it. If we don't like her, we won't do it.

Right? That's what I do. So that was the attitude. It's meet her and let's see. At least we don't have to err at if we don't like her. We won't do it, right? That's an actual exercise. So that was the added to. It's like, yeah, fuck it, whatever. We'll see, and we end up, of course, loving you and having a great conversation. But what I wanted to share with the audience that I thought was just so amazing

and what I think has been so fun to watch is, I mean, we have this podcast. We meet for the first time. It's dynamically, we have a great conversation. We learn a lot about each other for the first time. Then afterwards, you and I sit and talk business for probably an hour, maybe more afterwards. And I remember you looking at me going like,

I'm gonna go start a podcast. I'm gonna go start a podcast and you're like throwing ideas at me and I think I'm gonna do this. I think I'm gonna do that and like, who is this girl right? I don't think you need me. I'm like, after it. And I'm like, this chick is crazy.

And then like, maybe two weeks later, you called me, and said, okay, I'm doing it. I have a couple of names. What do you think of this? Or what do you think of that? And I was like, okay, I like that. I think it's a good idea. Still wondering, is this girl really gonna follow through

and do this? And sure, shit. I mean, it's not even months later. I see big interviews popping up with you. And so I'm like, where the fuck did she come from? Oh my God, every time we're like, how does she get these guests? I should just start at her podcast. This isn't so impressed.

And of course, I should know better because I got a chance to meet you and that you very much so are like that, right? Just, and I value that characteristic a lot. The ability to befriend people, be a chameleon in any sort of a rumor or environment, very likable, you are very blunt and forward, which I love radical honesty. Like that's a big core value of ours.

So instantly hit it off, I've been so impressed to watch your journey into the podcasting space and to watch you crush something you pretty much just learned how to do pretty much. So I would love to talk about just entrepreneurship in general and what it's like building the empire that you're building right now. Wow. What a beautiful introduction. I'm going to fly out here all the time. It's an amazing way.

It is. Do you guys want an extra? Do you need a girl at Best Part of the Street? Hey, maybe, maybe. Oh my gosh. Wow. Well, that's a loaded question. First of all, I'd like to say that being underestimated is a really great thing sometimes, because

it will, you can either use that as fuel for yourself or as an excuse. I just choose to use that as fuel. It's always fueled me as either pain can fuel you that type of underestimating. And so I've never, ever let that do anything beyond that. And so if I put something out there, then I feel I'm accountable, right? So if I say to you, okay, I'm gonna do this podcast, for example, or whatever it is,

I feel like, oh shit, it's out there. I'm gonna have to now make it happen, right? Cause I wanna be true to my core belief also, which is authenticity, honesty, being true to myself. And so it helps me actually persevere. So I was actually, when I remember having that conversation with you, and I actually remember on the podcast throwing out like some stupid name,

like should it be like, Genspiration or Fitzpiration? And like all these like wonky, wacky things. And I remember it was not that I be like, Genspiration or Fitzpiration? And like all these like wonky, wacky things. And I remember it was not that I was like strategic, but I remember before I even started talking about it, that in my brain, I'm like, I am going to bring it up because that will enforce and make me persevere and go through with it that much more if it's out there.

So it's funny that you actually remember that and. Of course. So talk about the skills and habits and behaviors needed to, because it's, first off, it's intimidating to start from scratch and then say, I'm going to go talk to, like you said earlier, George Clooney or a celebrity or somebody that, you know, how am I going to get this person on my show? I don't have, I've just started my show. I don't have tons of downloads.

Who am I? But that never stops you. And that seems to be the story of your life. What are the skills that you need to develop in order to do that, to go and just make that should happen? Because it's pretty crazy. Well, I think it's interesting because you guys,

we were just saying this before we actually when we started to roll, is that, you know, if you come from a fitness business, right, people like tend to like compartmentalize that, that if you are good in one area, then that means you have to stay in that you can't be a fitness person, but also be a good business person or be a good strategist or have multiple things that you can be good at, right? Which could then be like a chameleon. So I think, first of all, that's always been like the story. I was never a fitness person that did all other things and that's just one of the things that I've done. But to really be more specific to what you were saying, we were to what you're asking me

is how, what's the skills? The skill is the skill of practice, really, and action. I think that's like, at the end of the day, what it is, right? Like, I don't think that there really is a skill. It's just learning how to do something and then not, I guess, like, getting past the fear barrier or like the, I don't know barrier because what you do is, like, you figure out what you want to do and then what you, what you need to learn to be able to do it. And then you just act, right? And you just, you just act as if and you just do it. So I feel like over time, I've never really maybe been good at anything until I decided I wanted to do it. And then I just kind of, you know, just went into it. I didn't like think as much as I,

I leaped, I leaped before I thought, so to speak. So what is the conversation in your head sound like? Like when you, you know, you just, Oh, you don't wanna know. I do wanna know. I am, I'm very curious to what that, because I mean, I have my own, probably mantras and chance I say to myself,

I have to love to be the underdog. And so what, when you say, okay, I'm gonna throw this out there, I'm gonna put it out in the ether. I know my personality, I have to love to be the underdog. And so what, when you say, okay, I'm gonna throw this out there, I'm gonna put it out in the ether. I know my personality, I'm gonna commit to it. But, oh fuck, where do I go from here? Or what's the conversation going on in the head when you're about to pursue something

that you don't know a lot about yet? I think what I like to do is find people around me that are really good at what I don't know. So I like to surround myself with, I like to be the find people around me that are really good at what I don't know. So I like to surround myself with, I like to be the most stupid person around or the most curious, or a very curious person, and really kind of like target laser focus on people who are really good at what I want to do and like gleam from them. So I think that's been one of the things I do. I've done very well and that would be my superpower. It's not so much that I'm so like I think that's been one of the things I've done very well.

And that would be my superpower. It's not so much that I'm so like I said that I'm so good at something, but I'm good at lasering in on somebody who is really good at that, and then gleaning that information or learning from them, and kind of using it as a building block.

I think that's number one. And like, what goes around going in my head, I like was the worst that can happen. So if I fail, so I try again, like, you know, the reality is like no out there, like you're always a harder critic, like you're the harder on yourself than anybody else. No one really gives a fuck at the end of the day, right? They're so preoccupied with themselves. We think that others care, but they really don't. There's two. There's way too preoccupied with themselves. So at the end of the day, if I fail, okay, so I'll get up and try again. Like, you know, I talk a lot about making 10 attempts in life, right?

Like in my whole philosophy is that if you, if you have the mindset of, okay, I don't, I don't plan or I don't, I don't expect to win the first time, but I'll give myself these 10 attempts. More often than not, you'll either get one of those, you'll either get the goal or another opportunity will present itself that you never even knew existed. So a lot of times what my actual goal is or was, I never actually ended up getting it, but a whole other door open that I didn't even know even was there that took me down a whole other path that helped me elevate to something else.

So everything is like building blocks, this long strand, and that's really what it is, more than anything. In my early 20s, I read a book that said that the average millionaire failed nine times before they were successful. So similar, when I read that, I then began being obsessed about getting to my 10 failures. So you sang that totally resonates with me because I remember reading that and being like, well, shit, if that's what these millionaire billionaires have failed at me times, I'm a young 20 year old, I've only failed once. I need to hurry up and get my 10 under my belt so I can be successful.

So I think one, that's one strategy that I think is so important. You went over something really quick too. And that is making peace with the worst outcome. Like knowing that, hey, I'm about to get into something I have no clue about. That's okay. I'm going to attach myself to people that are doing a great job at it. And what's the worst that's going to happen? What I fail, I lose a couple of bucks, I burn a couple of days, like whatever, if you

make peace with the worst outcome, it's much easier to step in the fire. It's also, you said something about, you know that you'll either get to your goal or some other door is gonna open. It's like knowing that you don't know all the potentials that are gonna happen and being okay with that knowing that the potentials are gonna be great at the end of it.

Do you have an example of a time that happened to you where you just tried, tried, tried, and then it turned into something else. I think this is cool. Everything in my life. And I will say also just to add to that, there is a million examples, but another thing I was going to say is I think, you know, one of my big fears in life actually is not living my life and not self-actualizing to what I think I can be. So that's more of a fear than the rejection of of of not getting something. So I think I can be. So that's more of a fear than the rejection of not getting something.

So I'll put myself out there over and over again for rejection if that means that at least I made that attempt, at least I made that try. So I won't look back in regret because I think rejection is always better than regret in life, right? Like to me anyway, everyone has their own thing or their own path, but for me, that regret is like gut wrenching.

When did you get over read? Because that is actually not common at all. It's even less common in females is. Yeah, because guys are used to being rejected with women. Yeah, we all know it's a true staff. Oh, is it okay? Yeah, it's actually a true staff that reps.

That man are used to being turned down, told no. And so we tend to be a little more resilient with that. It's a less common trait in women. Do you remember when you were younger, like when you started to piece that together, like who cares if they tell me no? Who cares if they don't like, I don't give a shit. Like when did you start to put that together?

I think because maybe I got so rejected so many times in certain things in my life, that it became maybe I kind of had that same quality that the guys had, not even so much in relationships or boys or whatever, but just in things I would try. I don't think I was a terrible student, so that really didn't pan out for me well. I tried to get into this dance company that I, all my friends got into, and I was the only one rejected.

I mean, I can name so, that's what I'm saying, I can name a million things, but so I think I became so comfortable with it, because it wasn't a practice that I wanted to meet, because I'm comfortable with, but it just happened that I started to bounce off. It became, that's why in the boldness Ted talk that I talk about, I say people should practice this idea of rejection or asking for what they want because if you practice on these little things, it compounds over time where it becomes like second nature

where it doesn't affect you as much. You're brain doesn't process it as the same type of rejection as it would have processed it the first or second or third or 100th time, right? That makes a lot of sense. I like what you said about rejection versus regret. I feel like regret is last a long time and oh my gosh I could have done that instead of like well regret is unknown like rejection. I know now. It didn't

work. One other thing about you is that you're really good at fostering relationships with people. I noticed this about you just with how you are with me and with us but even when I went down to visit you and do your podcast I could see how you talk to the people around you and the people you just with how you are with me and with us. But even when I went down to visit you and do your podcast, I could see how you talk to the people around you and the people you work with. And then we were talking about, and I'm not going to call out any names, fellow podcasters who you've worked with and that you provided help to. And then they don't return the favor. And you're like, this terrible relationship building. This person is a terrible business person. We have this whole conversation. Like how important is building those relationships around you to success?

And what does that look like? Well, I think they're very important. I think that it's about, first of all, it's very nice for you to say. So thank you. I think I just, I think that I build relationships well. And I think again, anyone can do that by, I think being genuinely curious about other people or other things in life and

And being interested, right? I think the worst thing for you're not interested and you become it life becomes boring, right? Like I genuinely like am interested. I would get teased all the time even like now and He's all the time, even now, I would always ask why all the time. And then I had everyone being like, when I was younger, like, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, because no matter what someone said to me, I'd ask, well, why, why is that, why? I just always had a genuine curiosity,

if I didn't know something, or I wanna know everything about you, and like literally everything, I still do. I wanna know everything about you. Justin, I wanna know everything about you because I know nothing about you. Like I wanna know until I will ask. He's really boring actually.

Yeah, well, yeah. It seems that way, that's why I'm not scared to. No way. No way. Okay. You're not used to this. I feel the same. Everybody loves you. Hey, this is A. I'm gonna No way. No way. Okay. You're not used to this stuff, man. Everybody loves you. This is A. I'm gonna play a lot of bunch of like,

I'm gonna talk to you this. He's a, he's a, he's a, because, listen. Okay, so the whole boldness thing is a compliment because what I've talked about with Sal and like how I first met him, he has this ability to have the self-confidence and he just, you know, like he believes in himself like really strongly and I admire that about him. And that's something I saw in you in terms of like how you present

yourself and like you're carrying yourself in a certain way where like I suffer from an imposter syndrome and so this is something where I've had to work through all of that and like have really tried to build myself back up to be able to portray myself in a certain way to have like this type of, you know, confidence that comes through in my speak or have opinions and really like, you know, come out with it and face that rejection. But it seems like, you've been able to kind of put it out there, receive it, just keep molding and shifting towards what's coming at you. So it was a compliment at the end of the day.

No, I just teased you. I'm curious. So why did you have, see, why again, see See I'm going to be teasing. Why did you have imposter syndrome and how did you get over it? Again, all this stuff kind of stems from your childhood, I think, and just the way that you listen and bring in opinions from other people and work your way through that. And so for me it was It was a lot of self-talk I had to do in order to get me So for me, it was a lot of self talk I had to do in order to get me thinking of myself

in a more positive light. And so it's just, again, this is something that was more of a childhood thing that I had to get myself out of an environment where I was getting a lot of negativity and a lot of insulting type of comments and things my way. So I internalized that a lot. And my chip on my shoulder was that I'm going to prove everybody wrong. And I'm going to go out there and I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I'm going to get my calls to agree, you know, like if people

don't think I'm smart enough, well, I'm going to show them. And so like this is like a chip I've carried on my shoulders forever. And so that's just my story, but I, you know what's interesting though, that you're saying this right now is because if you really kind of like look at, you know, very successful entrepreneurs or very successful people in general in life, the through-life with all of them is that they all seem to carry that same chip

on their shoulder. They've all had some type of negative, kind of experience growing up, like where even look at Elon Musk, right? Like his dad would say to him that you're an idiot, you're not gonna amount to much, not much. And that pushed him, propelled him, fueled him, so to speak, to become who he was.

Michael Jordan, in his last, in that speech he did, I don't know what the, Yeah, you're asked the wrong guy. It's anyone, Michael Jordan. Oh, I was just a Jersey Biden. Okay, I really am, I keep my tears this way. Don't worry about that. No, I was gonna say this is really, I don't know.

He's a bull, right? The Hall of Fame acceptance speech. The Hall of Fame acceptance speech, the first thing he said was to all those haters and self-doubt people out there. You know, he did, but most people look at, I did too, like when people don't respond to me, it takes you right back to that time in your life when you felt shame and pain and embarrassment, because someone like this didn't treat you well, or they had doubt in you or they called you stupid or you're working on Mount too much. I still have the same person in my ear like you said you have the person's it person in your when I was little

I remember when I was in like height in junior high we had this like resource teacher like guidance counselor teacher I was like Mrs. Raisin so she, if she is listening, this goes to you, Mrs. Raisin. Fuck you, Mrs. Raisin. I'm like, you're legally bitch. You was rated. You know when you take those tests at school, I'm can't, I'm can't. Placement tests or whatever? I don't know what they are.

Like, I was in Canada or whatever. And like the Canadian version of them. And I remember like, when I did my test, it came back that like, I was gonna be like, a forest ranger. Now, not to say that back that I was gonna be like a forest ranger. Now, not to say that it's a bad thing to be a forest ranger. I don't wanna get like hate mail from you. But like that's what it said. And I was like, I don't know.

I'm like, how? I'm like, I'm never in the forest. I don't count. Like it has nothing to do with who I am as a person. What the fuck is this? And so she like literally said to my mom, she's like, I'm sorry, I know you have these, I really would kind of measure your expectations when it comes to Jennifer. I don't think she's going to go to college and she's going to be like, you should

just kind of keep your temper, your expectations, because I come from a Jewish family, everyone's a doctor and a lawyer and this and that very education is super important. And I remember she just, and she was so condescending, like she always treated, even as like a small kid, she was very condescending. And so I still think of that, damn this is raising to the day when I like go and like do something.

So I feel like not to like, drone on and on, but I feel like Justin, me, anybody, I feel like that Elon Musk, there's a lot of, there's a lot of magic there. Yeah. There's a lot of power and magic that you, in fact, you're reading a book in Patrick Bad David gets into that in that book of, but here's the, here's the, the fine line there, right? So I agree with you. And at one point, and it'd be interesting to know where this happened for you in your journey You learn to not Identify with that or or feel like I am that person, but I'm gonna use that as fuel to power me beyond this So that's the Dan I think that's the real dance of the success will be with the successful people go

I ain't I'm not that dummy and I'm gonna but I'm gonna use that to to motivate me But I'm also not going to let that get in and creep in and self-talk and call myself a dummy. Or make me have a dysfunctional relationship with business or people because I'm so driven by this insecurity, but rather it's fuel and it's healthy fuel. I also think what happens, yeah, you can use it either as an excuse. It can take you to two different ways, right, as an excuse and that takes you down a bad road or as fuel. But I think what's also interesting is when you use it as fuel take you to two different ways, right? As an excuse and that takes you down a bad road or as fuel.

But I think what's also interesting is when you use it as fuel and you do it that way, a lot happens in that process. I think that what happens is you start evolving and changing where, yeah, like you remember like Mrs. Raisin or whoever it is, Michael, whoever anyone is. But yet like, it's changing the neuroplasticity somewhat in your brain as you're acting, where that becomes, you're changing to a new person in a version of your story.

Well, let me ask you this, because here's my opinion on it, right, is that it's a very important skill to take something negative and flip it into something that becomes something positive. I think that's just an important skill period, but I think you also have to learn to be a growth-minded person in order for that to happen. What I mean by that is,

some people are not growth-minded in the sense that they think, this is me, I'm never gonna get better. I can never be smarter or I can never do any of those things. This is my genetics or this is society or whatever, outside force. Nothing can change. One thing, and we all have this in common in this room is we all had careers in fitness,

and you actually alluded to this in the beginning of the podcast, fitness teaches you to be growth-minded because you can't stick with it, not be growth-minded. You suck when you do it at first. You're trying to get stronger. You're trying to get more fit. You get over the rejection and you practice and you continue to work out So you just become growth-minded through that process

Was did fitness do that for you and was that what the catalyst that combined the two that took you the next level Or did it just add to something that you had already built? No, absolutely. I think that that's exactly what I was saying at the beginning is that Fitness and that's why I find it very interesting are a lot of people also have some kind of like dabble or play in the fitness space because of all the things that it taught. It made me mentally strong because once I saw myself getting physically strong

and it happened by accident. So when I didn't get into that dance company, you know, that I try out for an I reject it for and all my friends were now going to this dance thing. I'm like, what am I gonna do? So I started going to like the local gym instead. And you know, it happened so like so, like incrementally, like it was like,

you don't even notice it until all of a sudden one day, you're like, oh, but like as I saw myself getting physically stronger, it kind of created this like mental strength. And for me, they so interplay with each other, like the physical and the mental. And then that's when I started to have like these goals I made for myself and the discipline

where I'd go like regularly. And all of those things, I think that any success I've had in my life, honestly, is because of the core foundation that fitness taught me. I really believe that. I do too. For myself, and when you look at the lessons you learned through fitness, they're very applicable. You know what, we used to blow me away. When I would train clients at one point, I started training kids. And I remember I trained these 14, 15 year olds, and their parents were obviously were higher in me.

The kids couldn't afford personal training. And their parents would come to me and say, you know, Johnny's grades are getting better, or he's coming out of his shell, or, and I remember thinking, whoa, is this what working out is doing? But of course, because of all the lessons you learn through working out, you know,

I know it's just turning into like all the things we love about you, but, you know, episode. But, you know, take it. I'm not taking it. Let's get for a dark turn right now. Yeah, here's something I hate about you. No, here's, so I went to visit you down in LA, a month or two ago, because I was doing my book tour

and you had me on your show. And of course, we're taught, I could see how you're working with all these different businesses and building all these different things. That was very impressive. And then something happened that I was like, all these different things. That was very impressive. And then something happened that I was like, this is really incredible. Your kids came home. We were about to do a podcast or we were about

to get on video for the cooking with Cohen. Yes. That's going to be coming out launching soon, by the way, just that was strategic. That's all right. Give me the assistant. Yeah. But we were doing we're about to do a video and the whole set is set, right? We have, I don't know, five people in there working on it, camera people and people telling us the script and doing all this stuff.

And you know, we're getting ready to go. Her kids walk in with the nanny and she stopped everything. You stopped everything and your son was like, Mom, I need the password for this and what about that? And you took your time with your kids, and I realized that you do balance being a mom with doing all these other things. Let's talk about that for a second.

That's not talked about enough. I think a lot of people who want to start business and beyond topreneurs think that they can't have that kind of balance of their life, that they have to be crazy focused and never spent time with. For everything else around. Yeah, but I noticed you obviously,

and then we talked about your kids and the stuff you're doing with your kids, and because they weren't able to go to school because of COVID, you signed them up for all these things, and you're obviously very involved. How do you balance that out and do everything? Well, by the way, that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me.

I think that's very nice. Well, number one, I think it's like very difficult. I'm not gonna lie and say that, oh, I'm perfect at it, because believe me, it's not at all easy. And I think that you make decisions in life, right? Like, you know, I think that I've kind of been, I'm like, okay, with the fact that,

if I made a commitment to be a mom and to have kids, then that is my priority over work. And so I'm okay with maybe never hitting the top pinnacle of where I could be, because I don't really believe that you could be As a mom it's different. I think there's like certain things that are just like give that our life's Things in life and you have to kind of accept the things you're gonna accept in life I think that I'm okay with having 75 to 80% of my career taken care of

and being 100% a mom, right? Cause that's my priority. I think that like, nothing, there's nothing that you can be exceptional at if you don't give yourself, like if you're not 100% focused and I am divided in that and it's very, very challenging and there's a lot of guilt that comes into play with that. But, you know, I think as you get more successful, challenging and there's a lot of guilt that comes into play with that.

But I think as you get more successful, I think you have to be more, more organized and you have to really become more efficient with your time and really hone in on that time management. I think it really does come down to that. I think that, fortunately, when you hit a certain success, you could have more help. So I have like a nanny to help me when, you know, to kind of help balance out. I have like a husband who's helpful. I have all these things that make it really helpful. But at the end of the day, I think that you have to be realistic. No, like what you, what

you want out of life, what is your core value system? What are non-negotiables that you're not gonna go against? And one huge non-negotiables, I never want my kids or to feel that, I don't want them to ever have that memory that I didn't pay attention to them or they were in a priority because I think that has long lasting effects and because I feel like I'm empathetic to those things, I just want to make sure that I don't do those things. So I think you just have to make choices in

life and non-negotiables and then like work that plan. Yeah, I would agree. I think it's worth it for sure. Jane, can I ask you some personal questions? I'm really curious to the man that settles you down. He doesn't settle me down. But that's it. You know, go ahead. Yeah, so share with me a little bit. Where are you guys are similar, where you are different, give me a little insight on what he's like.

Well, I'm like a wall flower compared to him. I mean, beyond. I'm like, he's a huge personality. Really? So you got, he's a bigger personality. Oh my God, this is what the funny thing is. He thinks that I'm an introvert and I'm like a bloody. I kid you not.

I got to meet this guy. I kid you not. So for those of you who don't know, yeah, my husband is like, he's like extremely big personality. They've wanted to do like a million TV shows on him. They've like everybody's like, you know, he's like a big personality. He's done like a lot of like really

cool shit in life. And he's also somebody who, in a different way, is all about like not having any regret in life. So like, he just came back from a week of doing kite surfing. Do you know what kite surfing is? He did that for a week. He just does all sorts of like crazy ass shit all the time. He's like a normal version of like a layered Hamilton. When that, you know what I mean? Like he does, he takes, he's very risky and he's also an entrepreneur and a self-starter. So we have a lot of that stuff in common. Is that what connected you initially?

Yeah, like what I admire in a lot of people, I like people who are very much a go-getter and who are a scrappy. I think scrappiness isn't a tract of quality and that's for me, I mean, everyone's different and he's very scrappy and he's like done everything on his own, which again, I think it builds character when you do that versus this being hand, you know, being similar businesses as you or total different people. Oh, not field, what field is he character when you do that versus has been had, you know, being similar businesses

as you are totally different from what field is he? Nothing to do with mine. So he owns a few different businesses. One business is he does like, it's like so random. He does like, he has like a manufacturing plant where they recycle oil drums, okay? That's one business. Then he has a business where he is, he owns a

very big marketing company where they do like really, they create like crazy experiences. So like he just did this, he did this Indy 500 barstools party. That was for like 7,000 people with machine gun Kelly and a dip blow and he does a super bowl stuff and he does the MLB stuff and he creates these like crazy extraordinary experiences. But he was also when I met him, he was known as like the biggest girl wrangler in the country, which is so crazy. That's literally what he knows for. He would pick all the Macs and girls.

That's one of the things. He never was one dimensional, right? That's what I'm saying. He did a little bit of this. He was extraordinarily academically smart. And he also is extraordinarily scrappy, and that has that side, which is kind of like usually not always go, that doesn't really go hand in hand. Right, so when I bad him,

I'm like, oh, this is crazy. Did he come after you? Did you go after him? Well, he went after me. Oh, wow. I met him at a dinner. I was actually, I broke, I was with this other guy, and we broke up this one night,

and I was going to a dinner that that that the night after is a Passover dinner. I'm Jewish and I called up my friend who was having this dinner and I'm like, hey, me and Adam broke up, whatever. I don't really, doesn't matter if he listens. Hi, Adam. You in this region. You in this region.

You in this region. You in this region. I see Adam's a very nice guy. I'm just kidding. I mean, but yeah, but anyway, he'd say fuck you Jennifer to me, but that's the size of point. So I broke up with my boyfriend and I'm like, okay, so Adam's not coming, so you have a extra chair, so you can invite someone else. And so my friend had this like joint state or with this other person.

And so she invited Noah as her date. His name is Noah, my husband. And then I met him there. So, it's a long story. I'm losing my track of what was happening, but anyway, that's how we met. And then we started, like he said, when he obviously, he started like, he asked me at whatever,

I didn't, at the dinner, I actually thought he was a rabbi because he was like very knowledgeable, but the prayers, I literally thought he was a rabbi coming to, he looked like the rabbi, he wore this suit, his hair was flat, and he looked like, he looked like not how he normally looks, so I'm like, who's this guy? So then when he pursued me, I was very like,

I didn't understand who he was, and then he picked me up, his hair was all spiked, and crazy, and strange, and weird, and he was a crazy dancer. He was like he's dances like Justin Timberlake would do dantoffs with him all the time and so but anyway at the I would have these situations with him because he would like I didn't know this at the time but he would pick all the girls from accent like all the covers and all the hot uh what do you call those like I don't know what they what you call them in the magazine like

say models models okay and so he would have databases on his phone of like thousands of What do you call those? I don't know what you call them in the magazine. Say models. Models, okay. And so he would have databases on his phone of like thousands of girls, thousands of pictures. And their girls would come and like, you know, to my house and like pose for him so they could take pictures. And he would like, and like he was still like to sensitize

because that's all he did so much of it. Where he would get hired by all of these companies, like major fortune, like 100 companies, to basically create like sexiness for the parties. So like he would be like the secret sauce. So if a party wanted to be, if a company wanted to be super hot or super sexy or like elevate themselves,

they would call his company and he would like bring the shit. And so that's like, was like how he was like well-known, like really well-known. And so like, guys would love him because he had like, like databases of like, that the hottest girls you can ever imagine. This is so not PC right now. That's all right.

Yeah, but you know what, this is real life shit. I know, I'm gonna get so much shit. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no cycling metal and we would go to Vegas and all these trips together. And he always had this entourage of beautiful. There's always 10 to 15 like gorgeous model looking girls. He probably paid them though. Well, that's what I come out later on. There was a service. So that's why I'm, I'm very familiar.

Yeah, but he's like, you know what you, no, there's companies that you can hire and they, it's cost X amount of dollars and the girls hang out with you. Well, that's a whole different day. So listen, like if you, he was on the cover, he was on the cover of Maxim, I think, or not on the cover. He was like, there's like a huge thing about him in it,

because his whole business, he made like a lot of money, but he was always super on point and ethical, never crossed the line, nothing like that. I promised you, and I'm not just saying that because I'm being, I'm being recorded. Recorded, but because it's true. But I will tell you, his I'm not just saying that because I'm being recorded. But because it's true. But I will tell you, his thing was more about crowds and models. Because the truth of the matter is people don't want to believe this, but at the time,

you go where guys will go where the hot girls are. Money goes where the hot girls are. So parties were like infiltrated with this illusion of a certain thing, and that's what he was good at. But I will tell you something interesting. He has been asked, even to this day, even back then, everybody that made your names,

the people, celebrities, the biggest billionaires in the world, the biggest everybody would contact my husband regularly to ask for that kind of situation. And he would never, ever, ever, that is so not his style. My husband doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, doesn't do anything.

He's such a partier, he can stay up till six o'clock in the morning, just being high on life, but never with that stuff. But there's a fine line between both of those things. I promise you, but if I point is, he's a big personality larger than life. And, you know, it's a good, it could be a good thing, but it's also kind of like,

it could be a clash sometimes. I was gonna, okay, so that's where I was gonna get at. When you have two really big personalities like that, in like a room, like what is that? Do you step back? Does he step back? Do you guys kind of overstep each other sometimes? Like what is that?

I go in one, what in quarter of the room and he goes in the other room. Okay, I'm divided. I'm divided. No, I'm kidding. What happens normally is he's super, super support. You know, one thing, another thing about him is very interesting is that he is super naturally confident.

He doesn't feel like, like, like, immasculated or like, insecure by my success or my, or anything about me. In fact, he's the, he is my biggest fan and he's super, super proud of me. Like, he will, he will always not take a step back because he doesn't need to. I think both of us give each other a lot of leeway and a lot of room. And we're not, there's no neediness in that or insecurity in that. I want him to thrive and I want him to do well. He wants me to thrive. He wants me to do well.

And we just let that be. So there's not any kind of friction when it comes to that. And I think that's why it works. Because I'm allowed to be who I want to be and do what I need to do. And he supports all of that. And then I think I do the same because a lot of people probably am I as a woman being married to someone like my husband and what he does for a living or he did that more Now his business is not about that as much. It's changed over the last few years But like it's about like I think really it's about like honestly It's honesty and it's trust like I trust him and I feel my thing is like if you hold something so tight like that

That's when things like become a problem Yeah But if you let someone just be who they are and like let them like kind of like do what they do It like it kind of like it kind of just Works much much so you guys are you guys together are hosting a party of 50 people at your house What roles are you taking who what's he doing? What are you doing? Well, he's he knows how to he's much better at that stuff. I'm not very domesticated that way. He is much better.

Well, the world is like, he's a great host. I'm on okay host, but like I like to, my thing is, if I'm at a party, I like to hone in on one person or two people that I really, really like and like learn everything about them, because that curiosity element that's just part of me. He likes to talk to everybody. He's working the room. He's working the room.

He's a people person. And I'm a people person, but in different ways. I like to have the specific people that I really get to know because I think having one or two close friends sometimes is better than having a bazillion friends. And, you know, he's very interested in people and loves people and is, I'm a little more disordered I would say, to be honest. But he's much more macro and I'm much more micro at a party.

You know, one thing too is you meet a lot of important people, celebrities. You don't seem like somebody that would, you know, like I remember when I was managing James for the first time in the gym, I was very confident, but I remember when I had to do my first, what we're called corporate accounts. And these were where I'd go to big companies. I'd speak to the CEO or the CFO, and we talk about a potential corporate membership for their employees.

And I was intimidated because they had suits on, they're sitting behind a desk, it's a big company. And I remember it intimidating me and I had to get used to it. You don't seem like someone that's intimidated very easily by meeting people like that. Is that because of practice? Is that something you had to get over,

or do you just see people as people and you don't care? You know what, I think, I just see people as people, but I think that's also practice because I think that over time, it's over my life, I've been in so many different industries, right? I was in the sports world. I worked for the Toronto Raptors, and I worked for the music world, I worked for a Toronto Raptors, and I worked for the music world,

I worked for a record label. I've worked with the musicians, artists, athletes. I've worked with, you know, in the fitness space, tons of fitness. I was a media trainer, which was like, I media trained, like tons of different CEOs and people on that level. I feel like I've kind of like been around

so many different people, and what I've learned from all of that experience, the through line is everybody is the same. Everybody's so everyone wants the same things, they are the same, they just wanna be, they wanna be talked to and seen as in the same light as anybody else. A lot of times, people even say,

usually when you meet a major celebrity, right? They're usually not the dick, it's, people even say, usually when you meet like a major celebrity, right? Like they're usually not the dick, it's usually the assistant who's usually the problem, right? Like because it's like, it's that like feeling of that you that you haven't arrived yet, like you have that like feeling of regret or that feeling that the power thing that you feel is when you don't have it. I think once you've arrived at something, people are just people, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you coach like men and women

for entrepreneurship and business? I do a lot of, I kind of morphed my fitness business initially into the high performance. So like when I was doing a lot of the media training, that kind of morphed into more of the high performance because you're still teaching the same building blocks, right? Like how, again, it's about like having a focus and having goals, to having goals and how you can reach those goals.

So I did that a lot with like CEOs and a lot of hype, like a lot of like sea level or sea sweet executives. hype like a lot of like sea level or sea sweet Executive do you see a difference between the challenges that men and women have Doing this I know your talk that you did on Ted was about boldness and I feel like There's probably a lot of women you are resonating with because you know stereotypically women might be a little bit more less You know, maybe less bold or less willing to put themselves out there. I've heard this as a challenge. Do you see differences between the two when you general differences between the two when you coach them?

Between male men. Yeah. Um, absolutely, I do. I think women are like to your point. I think there's a little bit, there's much more apprehension to go up to chase what they want or to go after what they want and they'll take the good enough much easier. Men are much more, they're naturally more bold,

I should say, to kind of to go after that. And I think it's because what you guys were saying earlier is that you guys got so used to that rejection piece that it became kind of part of your like DNA where it was easier. I think women have that like extra obstacle to feel okay with asking for what they want more and getting over that self-doubt hump and that that self-doubt can be a real, you know, a real hindrance. How do you coach people through that? I think understanding, I think the best tool

in personal development is self-awareness. And I think the reason behind that is, if you really know yourself and can really like sit with yourself and figure out where that comes from, what your core self-doubt comes from. Where the root of it, what's the root cause of where it comes from and then work from there is really, really important. I think if you, people don't like to do that, they like to lie to themselves, they don't want to have that rawness, even for themselves. But I feel like if they are able to kind of know who they are

more and kind of build within that, that's the first step. I think also another big one is having teaching someone to have more compassion for themselves. I think that ends up having more emotional resilience. I think it's really easy to have compassion for someone else, like for you, if something happened to your friend, what you say to your friend is very different than what you say to yourself. And trying to train your brain by practice to talk to yourself differently

is a really helpful tool as well. I think overcoming self-doubt is also looking at the circle around you and looking like who is who are the five people that you surround yourself with the most, right? Because a lot of times those people are infiltrating the external infiltrates your internal to what we're talking about before with you Justin and me, everyone else, we get a lot of our ideas from what what others think of us close to us. So surround yourself with supportive people and also like find validation from within. Don't look for outside validation. Find something about yourself that gives you strength, what makes you feel, what are you good at and kind of

like focused and lean into that more. I heard you talking about knowing what you want. You know, like you got to know what you want. Like what do you mean by that? Well, if you don't, you ain't got to get it. Well, yeah. But I think a lot of people listening are like, well, I know what I want, but you talk a lot about like no, really knowing what you're looking for.

I think people, I think the majority of people don't know what they want. They may have like an idea, but I think, but they don't really know it. I think it also is a moving target. I think as you like go through life, you like, you can shift and evolve and change what you want, right? And I think that that that whole self-awareness piece is super important. I think the better you know yourself, the more you know what you want, right? Like what your core belief system is, what your core values are, what your non-negotiables are,

what you like, or what you don't like. It could be as simple as that. Like I don't like this, but I do like this. So let's lean into this, or like I'm really bad at this, and I'm really good at this. Okay,'s lean into this, or like, I'm really bad at this, and I'm really good at this. Okay, so lean into what you're good at, and make that what you focus on in terms of your career,

and then like find people that you're, you know, to kind of supplement your week areas. I think nothing is built with one person. You need a team to be successful. And I think the whole, like, no, you get to know what you want by starting with the foundation of who you are. 100% good.

So that makes sense. Yes, 100%. What's your current vision then for getting into podcasting? What do you want from that? And I know you're very self-aware. So how is that unfolding? What are you doing well? What are you not doing so well? What do you see others doing well And I know you're very self-aware. So how is that unfolding? What are you doing well?

What are you not doing so well? What do you see others doing well that you want to be better at? What do you tell me what that looks like for you right now? That's a really good question. I'll tell you. So what I love about it is that I get to speak and talk to people who I think are really, really interesting.

And I can learn what they do. Again, it's like I choose people as guests who I think are doing something extraordinary or who have done something extraordinary or and I want to learn from them what their habits are. What, how, why did they become so successful? What has been their path? What, what do they do? And then I want to like,, I wanna like try to like take that information and like make it apply it to myself, to my life, and to my listeners, right?

Like I think that's the most like, the same thing with your podcast, right? Like you guys give such valuable information that you give people a reason to tune in. Like I wanna listen to what you guys are saying. And there's like raw honesty, right? So I think that's what I like about my podcast because I think that people are coming on there

like Sal, who are giving some really good information and great tips and tools that people can apply to their life. What I find interesting is the podcast space is so competitive, it's so saturated, it's really, really hard to stand out and to even be known unless you have other ways of doing it, like, unless you're really good at marketing and partnering with people who can help elevate you or, you know, to get on the charts and everything like that. Like, everything, there's so much like business stuff and behind the

scene stuff that people don't even think of. If they actually want to make their podcasts a success or like a quote-unquote hit. Like if you just want to be a podcaster and podcast because you just genuinely love to speak to people but you're not looking at it as a business, that's a totally different animal, right? But to get to the level, like even that you guys are at, right? Like where you built an entire media company around it, it's, people don't understand like the amount of hours and time and effort and people behind the scenes that make that

a reality, right? Like, and I'm learning all of that as I go. And it's a lot of work. What surprised you so far? So for, you know, and I'll give you a softball pitch with like the R first example of that. I remember when we were tiny, we just started. We had the first person that had a quarter million followers

that was gonna come on our show. Just a local friend who he'd been on the bachelor and we're like, you know, we could call, I was like, hey, let's call him, he's got a massive following. Yeah. And we were so excited because you're talking about, at this time, none of us are known at all.

We're just getting going in his podcast. And we were like sitting on pins and needles for like, cause at that, we're thinking, okay, we have maybe a thousand people paying attention to us. This guy comes on with a quarter million. We're taking all the while going, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and we're like sitting with and like crickets. Crickets, yes.

Nothing happens. So have there been things like that? I would tell you all the time, things that I thought would like super like would like just like take it to the next level over and over again. People, like massive people I've had on, where like it was literally crickets. It was mine as well, like just be like shooting a cannon through like literally crickets. It was mine as well, just shooting a cannon through an empty room.

It was like nothing. And I find that a lot of times what we were saying earlier is that I have had a lot of people on that you don't even know I had on because I won't even air the episode because they were such bad episodes. And so I learned from a couple of things when I put people on who were really, really well-known, and I thought that was gonna totally take me to the next level, and put me through the stratosphere,

and it didn't do anything that I realized quite fast. It wasn't that. At the end of the day, you have to have really good content. And if you don't have good content, no one's gonna listen because there's too much, there's to have really good content. Yes. And if you don't have good content, no one's gonna listen because there's too much, there's too much competition out there. But with that being said, I'll also say

there's a lot of podcasts out there that have very good content, but they have two listeners because nobody knows that they exist. So like, I'm gonna ask you guys that question. Like, what do you think you need to do? Because if it's about having good content, then why is that not just enough to kind of...

Well, because you alluded to it already. There's a ton of competition and there's a ton of other places. For example, to the point of like big guess Matthew McConaughey recently did his rounds I think you even interviewed I did yeah so and I didn't send our team to go after them and I said you know I have already seen them on 30 something podcasts already before we were even reaching out and I love Matthew McConaughey and I think it would be and he I listened to his conversations on many podcasts but but that's just it. There's an abundance of people that are interviewing them. So one, one thing that I think is very important,

and we've learned this over the last six and a half years, is just becoming better at your job, which is just purely practice. So nothing is going to, is going to Trump reps, which you've already alluded to that already. It's just, and I mean mean and what I mean by that to be more specific for somebody who's interested in the podcasting spaces, I mean, I even pay attention to the the ums, the you knows, uh, the fear of pause and silence on the podcast. That would scare the shit out of me. Oh, yeah, we should fill that four years ago. And because we had the gift of gab, uh, that pause would happen. And because we had the gift of gab, that pause would happen, and I would insert in salad and just,

and we would just be always doing this, and learn to just relax and slow down the conversation, recognize that the listener, it doesn't feel like that. So there's a lot of things like that that you start to get better at your craft. Another thing that I think literally, this is just happening for us right now,

so this is kind of neat to talk to you about. I believe our last five interviews are the best interviews we've ever done. And it doesn't matter who the person is. We did a tonal, a CEO, we did a whole 30 girl, we did this guy on a doc, this kid on a documentary, we did an economist, but it's not them. It's that we are getting more comfortable

with asking the hard questions and not being afraid. When you're a friendly person and you like and you like to like people and you like them to like you, you tend not to want to piss them off, but for great radio or television or YouTube, whatever, controversy and struggle for your guests is really good content. So it took us a long time to get over that hurdle of, I'm going to fucking ask that question. He's not going to like it or she might... But everybody wants to ask.

I could not agree with you more. I think that is so true. I also think the problem is getting harder now, not so much because of what you're doing, but it's about this about cancel culture and not being on point with what's mainstream. So a lot of people now, and what I find is happening, which is watering down a lot of content on podcasts, is the fear of being shunned or canceled or whatever, where then you're getting very beige content, very beige answers, very beige questions

because there's that fear element, right? That happened. We're the wrong people for that. Well, not only because we don't care. Not only that, but the entrepreneur sees the huge opportunity in that. Absolutely, because everybody's doing that. That's right.

There's your blue ocean. Also, Stan Steadie and Tall and Strong, and when you're building your audience, you pick and choose what kind of audience you want to build. We open the gates that way, and so people comment, it's funny, I was on a podcast this morning and I was getting interviewed and it was Dr. Becky Campbell and she says, Oh my God, I love your listeners. They're the best listeners or hilarious. I love the comments that they put. We built it. We trained them that way. So they're not going to get like, if I build my audience with this like, Oh, I'm careful. I don't want to be honest and I got to be careful. I'm going to out. I'm gonna be beholden to that all the time.

Then I'm gonna get canceled by my own people. Well, that's why I also have to consider if you're bringing on sponsorships and you're beholden to all these companies coming in and having control over your content, which right away from the beginning, we made a point of that that we're not gonna have supplement companies

and we're not going to do the same formula every fitness company's done forever, getting into the space. We're just going to do our own thing and blazer own path. I'll give you an example, it's hilarious, by the way. So we worked with the company, I'm not going to get too specific with this because we got little trouble with this, but we were the company that has a supplement that is very, we like, very effective for what it does, but it also because it's all natural

and it's not super flavored, tastes like crap. It just doesn't taste good. And literally that was how we would talk about it. I would talk about using it and Adam be like, oh, it just tastes like crap, but it does work. And I remember the sponsors, the sponsors getting upset. And we sold it.

The sponsors are getting upset. Like, why would you say that? Whatever, we're like, listen, we're being honest. Why don't you wait to see how many people buy your product and then come back? Guess what? They're fine. Why? Because the honesty was very effective

at selling the product, because we're just being honest. We're just totally being honest. Whereas other people might be afraid and be like, don't mention it or lie about it. But we're going to tell you, it's effective, tastes like crap, because it's all natural, but that's okay because it does all these other things. But I love that about you guys.

I think that authenticity and that honesty is refreshing, because unfortunately, the majority of people are not doing that. Especially in this space. Especially in this space. And like, let's even talk about that Matthew McConaugh thing for a second because you know what like what's happening a lot not just with him, but like everybody has the same guess it's all recycled shit same conversation same shit and if you actually listen and this has happened to me a lot of times where like I'm researching

I guess. Oh, and he gives you the same interview that he... Literally, like, why bother? It just go listen to so-and-so's interview, to the same sound bites, the same stories, the same pauses, like, oh yeah, that reminds me of, and goes into the story. So, okay, so that's such a great point, right? And we definitely fell for this also.

Oh yeah. And afterwards, we'd all talk and be like, fuck, man, he literally just took over. And that's a little bit of us being better at interviewing, right? So this is something that I think Joe Rogan does so well. He may not look like he's having a really good interview, but that man has done extremely good research on those people. And he does a great job of taking the conversation, and I've seen him get guests

that have their sound bites, and he will disrupt that. And so that's on us, right, to be better about seeing that coming and be like, and I've done this before, right, stop, so I'm like, I've heard you say this before, but I wanna know more about this or why you say that, right? So that's part of getting better at an interviewer is knowing that they have their agenda and what they're going to want to say, I want to disrupt that. If I want you even as a guest, because sometimes we won't even let somebody on the show like

that if I think that's all there, they're all, is they have an agenda to sell a book that's it. But, you know, exactly the truth. Yeah, but, you know, at the end of the day, if you do a good job of impacting people like in real ways, they're gonna sell the shit out of you. And that's how you're gonna grow. At the end of the day, you have to do that. There's really no other way to effectively grow a podcast business or other media business unless you're really impacting people.

And then they through word amount, because we've all done this. You ever listen to a podcast? And you're like, holy shit, man, I gotta send this to four people. And you end up sharing it. You're like, you gotta listen to this guy? And you're like, holy shit, man, I gotta send this to four people. And you end up sharing it. You're like, you gotta listen to this guy. He's really, or this woman. Oh my gosh.

And so that's the goal. The goal is always to do that because I mean, I don't know any marketing that's as effective. Well, I'll give you something else. Yeah, I agree. The organic shares are very important. But, okay, sorry, you're gonna say something. Yeah, I was just something else that, you know, maybe you can use that I think, look,

and this is me looking back and unpacking the business and the growth and what work, what didn't work. Something that I think that it just, it worked itself out. I don't think any of us were like brilliant and thought it was a great strategy. It was just go speaks to the authenticity part. And that was, we shared very openly a lot of the business from the very beginning.

Like what our strategy was, why we're not doing this? Like, oh, we're starting to make money now. Like that's something a lot of people are afraid to do. They're afraid to like let people know how they're making money or this that. But a lot of people are really curious, especially if they've become attracted to you and your podcast and they already kind of like you as a host,

the more you share about your journey through this whole thing too I think pays off a lot and it's helped us out a ton. So I totally agree with you. I'm gonna say two things to that point I've I agree and that's why I'm an open book. I mean I try and I think that what you and Sal and I were talking about this When I entered this space and I like asked people for like legit Like, you know, I you know, just in full transparency like how do I do this or how do I do that? And there were so people are so Forget about the even the audience just from like podcast or a podcaster So they hope they hold their information so tight. They don't want to help you.

But the reality is, it's like, if I, and I really, and I'm not just saying this but as a platitude, but I really believe it. And I always lead with this. The more I've helped people and given to them, it's always come back to me 10-fold. I never hold that information. If you want to contact, I'll give it, gladly give it to you.

You're not lying. I've done this with you. I've asked you questions and you want to contact, I'll give it, gladly give it to you. You're not lying. I've done this with you. I've asked you questions and you're totally open. Oh, 100%. And like, does it come back? Mostly, not by those people, maybe never. I would say nine times the 10th it doesn't, but that one that does is worth 100 people, right?

Right. And like, but it's people who also claim that they're your friends, they're your work friends. And it's to say people who come to you and ask for help over and over and over again But yet like you that when you ask a fair one cut one thing It's like coveted. They won't help you with anything and like a funny thing as I was gonna tell you but the podcasting the guest I've always had better call like something not always a lot of times the best Interviews or the best conversations happen off of the microphone, offline versus online because people are so scared and so

uncomfortable with, like, open, like, honest and honesty. But if they were just that way on the podcast, it would have been so much better. You know what you do? We started doing this. Well, we just did it to you. We stopped telling people we turned on the, oh, because that's what happened. I do that too, by the way. Yeah, it works. Otherwise, we're about to start and then all of something. All right.

Formal intro. Yeah, that's because I'd never do it. But then what happens if I get awkward because I'm like, uh, because I'm as seasoned as you guys, but I'm like, should I be like, I'm talking to him and almost nine at a 10 times, I'd be like, so what are we starting? And I'm like as seasoned as you guys, but I'm like, should I be like, I'm talking to him, and they're almost nine at a 10 times, I'd be like, so when are we starting? And I'm like, oh,

we've been going. Yeah, we've been starting. And then they're like, well, aren't you gonna do it? Like, aren't you gonna say who I am? I'll do it afterwards. And I say I'll do it after. That's the same thing.

Every time because that's the only way. No, that's a great hack. I think that's it. For any podcasters, listening, it was definitely one of those, you know, we look back at pivotal moments of the show when it evolved and got better. One of the most pivotal moments was when we stopped doing the formal intro of sitting down like, okay, this is Jen Cohen and then we go into this whole, it's so awkward.

It's so awkward. They freeze up, you get all fumbly trying to remember all their shit. It's so awkward. The whole thing is so, I think that is a great hack because it's so awkward. The whole spirit, that whole thing is so, I think that is a great hack because it's so awkward. And even in any interview or anything, whenever someone like, I hate formality, I'm really bad with it. I get very weird and uncomfortable

and anxious around it. So like, I just try to do to others as I would like to be done to be, right? Like, the truth, like. We would never have a conversation like that. So why would I do it any different times? Exactly. Like the second you, and you you also you just you you disrupt that like flow Yeah, right because like then you'd be like okay, then let's start now and it's like oh, okay, you know

And it becomes I'm so sorry. I feel like I'm focusing solely on you this happened last Just a handsome one. Yeah, I focus on him too. I feel like my chair just swivels left Yeah, I focus on him too. I feel like my chair just swivels left. Yeah. I'm sorry. Not, and like I feel that way. I think you do it that way. Well, we have a lot in common too.

I would do have a lot in common. Yeah, you're, you've a lot of the, you know, behind the scenes, and I'm glad that we're sharing this for the audience and stuff, because we don't talk about it a lot, but, and I'm sure the guys would agree with me that a lot of the success we've had is because of the relationships that we've built offline. Yeah, offline, we have built a lot of good relationships with a lot of them. You know, I want to comment to what you were saying about when people hold information tight,

like they're looking at you like a competitor. I remember the first time I learned what you said about how things tend to elevate. I remember managing a big gem and then another big company, a competitor, opened up a gem not too far. And I remember at first being like, oh crap, competitors here,

like this is gonna hurt our business. But then I started to see people walking in my door who that gem's advertising got these people to just start looking at gems. So they went to that gem and they come to mind. Oh, I just looked at the new one. I wanted to see what the competition was. My volume of people that walked in my gym increased because it brought more awareness

around fitness in my area. So to podcasting, when podcasters who are just so stupid, they don't see beyond their own nose, they don't, especially right now, podcasting is still in its infancy. It still has yet to even come close to the size of talk radio. Talk radio used to be so massive, right? Podcasting is gonna get there, it's digital audio, it's gonna get there.

And so these other podcasts are so dumb because the more really good podcast that exists, the more popular, the more people come to podcasts. I mean, if you just stayed where you were and the whole genre grew, so would you. But they don't realize that. They think it's- It's scary.

It's such a dumb mentality and it's so counterproductive, but it's that whole scarcity. It's a scary, the abundance thing. It's exactly, it's all about scary, scary, and also what's weird is, it's in a different genre. Like a lot of times, it's a scarcity abundance thing. It's exactly, it's all about scarcity. And also, what's weird is, it's in a different genre. Like a lot of times, it's a lot of different genres. Not even something competitive, right? Yeah. I'm like, I'm talking about apples,

and you're talking about like politics. Like, what's the difference? And it's like, I think it's just like that abundance scarcity thing. And I think that that's like a mindset that people have to try to like get over because it's only at the end of the day, it's going to hurt them more than anything. I also think that water finds its level.

You gravitate eventually to people that you're similar to, that help push you and propel you to the next place, to the next place. That's about partnerships, too. I think that you find partnerships that help you and grow and help build your business. You grow, you truly grow into an empire when you have really strong strategic partners around you. Oh, you have to. You know, this would not be possible with my partners.

There's no way. Their strengths are definitely some of my weaknesses and there's no way. Yeah, I was actually going to comment on that earlier because your strengths being networking and something I've taken from Adam and he's really good at this is creating systems around that and having follow-ups and emails and gifts and just thoughtful things for people

that we've met before have done business with. Is there systems that you have in place and things that you've put to be able to manage all these people? Well, yes, I think that the networking piece is super, obviously, super important. And I think that you lead with what I can help you with, not the opposite. So don't you don't build a relationship by asking for something out of their gate, right? Like, I think that's like the biggest faux pas. Like, if you really want to build and develop a relationship,

lead with what I, what you can do for them, you know, what can I do for you? And I think that, like, that is, that's like step one, right? Like, I think, I also think having, and this goes back to, and it's not that I'm trying, it's not that it's Machiavellian, and it's not that I'm trying, it's not that it's Machiavellian and it's not that it's strategically, it's not like it's a being an opportunist, it's actually just being like what, again,

human nature and psychologically how you would respond in that situation, right? If you meet somebody and write out the bat, they ask you for something without knowing you, it's a turn off, it like puts you, like, you for something without knowing you, it's a turn off. It puts you on the defensive. It's uncomfortable. But if you lead with actually being curious and interested in who they are and what they are, number one, I should say that's really number one. Have interest in curiosity to really understand and know who they are. And then lead with how you can, how can you be of service or help them with something?

The B of service and help is really the step two. And from there, things will take it, you know, course, what Adam was saying, what Adam, the follow up is so key too, because so many times things die on the vine, because you start that friendship, you go strong out of the gate, and then it like, you know, widows and dwindles down into pure nothingness, because in order to really build a relationship, is you need to have shared experiences, you need to have, you have to have longevity and and interaction over a course of time.

It's not just like, okay, you lead strong with a really hard, you meet them, it's great, and then it's empty. It's like having reasons to constantly re-engage with somebody. You do that in a natural organic way. If you have shared interest, if you have shared things, remember what they've told you. If they said something, follow up with like, oh, whatever happened with this,

or whatever happened with that, or remembering people's names. It sounds so stupid. It sounds very much like that book deal, how to win friends, influence people. Wisdom, lots of wisdom in, influence people. Wisdom. Lots of wisdom in it. A lot of wisdom.

And I think like sometimes there's no, people are looking to make the most basic, simple things complicated. And it's so not necessary. It's like fitness. Like it's all the same. It's like, you know, people need consistency to be successful, right? People, you know, repetition, and, you know, to build friendships,

to build a healthy body, whatever. But like, at the end of the day, at, you know, it's about kind of like following, following, kind of creating those steps and just kind of going with that. I don't think it's, with, what else do I say about fitness, is people are looking for this magic pill

or a magic bullet to get these great results, just like in networking too. It's like, actually it's not that complicated and it's not that difficult. It's like really like, you know, have interest in who you're talking to, you know, kind of like be cognizant of like how you could be of service or help them and follow up once in a while. You know, it's not that complicated. It's one of our biggest pet peeves is we'll get, because we have a team obviously that filters people who want to be on the show. And we'll get an email from someone that's like,

hey, would you like me to have me on your show? And then we'll see that they have a podcast. And like, that's how you have your own podcast. You should ask us to be guests first, and then possibly we'll have you on. But they open with, do you want me on your show? You know what I mean? It's like, you have a podcast too. I know. Well, that happens a lot with people with bigger podcasts too. You know what I mean? Yeah. I never understand how people have not like figured, like,

it's like a lot of these things, like common sense isn't so common, right? Like, that's just the bottom line. You would think that these things over time, people would kind of like realize just from experience. And it's, I think that's, again, it's like a skill that it's easy to, that's an easy skill to master if you just, if you actually just, you care.

If you care. If you care, if you care, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And if you lead with that in relationship building, it's a very powerful thing. And it is that simple, but you just got to care. If you don't really give a shit and you just want, you know, and you're looking for something in return, you're gonna have a hard time with that.

Well, yeah, and it also, it ends up flatlining pretty quickly. Because those things never really do have a really long shelf life. You know, it really does it. Yeah, they don't. That was a Jim Quikki in there. Yeah, they did. They did. You have to see it really does it. Yeah, I was a Jim Quikki in there. Yeah, that's stupid. Did you have to keep it on your podcast? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there really does that.

He'll like say something and flip it. Yeah. And it says the same thing, but just like. The guy's teasing him all the time. I thought he was good. Oh, he was right. Yeah, he had his talking points for sure. He had his talking points.

I've seen him like a bit. Oh, I should. Again, I'm going to be like, I'm so not PC because I forget that this thing is on. You have to be careful with me. Get on the same way. So I'll pull it right out. Honestly, I know. I'm gonna start shifting my chair right. You know?

All right, tell us your least favorite guests. Go. I know. Oh my god, I was going to actually almost, I didn't air it actually, thankfully. How many of you not air it? That's actually crazy because there's not that many. 20?

Oh wow. Wow. You've done 20, you have an air. Well, her podcast is interview heavy. She does a lot of interviews. That's true. I actually don't just many as you. Well, actually, how many do you do?

We don't do a ton at all. Barely any. Well, you guys are great. You have someone you can banter. Exactly. I have nobody I can banter with. There's actually, so it's like, I don't want to just talk to myself.

Yeah, no, no, no. No, it's a different, it's totally different challenge. It's a different time now. I'll come hang out with you anytime you want. Anytime. I can't help 21. 20, I've had, and some of them are like really big. I'll come hang out with you anytime you want anytime. I can't up 21 I've had and there some of them are like really big. Okay, so tell me which I think is interesting I've had to deal with this which is always awkward. How is the the conversation of letting them know it's not being air

You can I tell you something it's it's there I have a lot of haters probably right now because I have a lot of people who like are Contacting my team being like so when is it airing? It's been like a year contacting my team being like so when is it airing? It's been like a year. They have a new book or yeah like a new project. But like I just you know I want to be able to pull the trigger and be like okay and then I feel guilty and I'm like oh maybe I should just air it.

But it's like so bad where it's like I don't want to do that to my audience and I don't I want to be true to myself too. Like I just don't want to. So I'll give you a tip't, I want to be true to myself too. Like, I just don't want to. So I'll give you a tip on that because it took me a while to get over that hurdle, right? So first of all, we set it up now when they get an email over from our team about the interview process.

Within there, it actually states that your episode may or may not air. That's right. And the second thing, when we have to potentially have this conversation, I was just very direct and blunt. Honestly, we don't think the interview was that great. We didn't want to put it on the audience. I don't think it's going to make you or us look good.

And so unfortunately, we're not going to error it. Am I going to get that email when I get it? No. No, we'll just end up, this is drag you out for a year. Exactly. Yeah, maybe we're going to put it out there. Exactly. And a few weeks.

That's what I would do. The average shirt would be, would be do that for a while. I'd be like, no, it's coming out in like three or four weeks. I's what I would do. The average shirt we would do that for a while. I'd be like, no, it's coming out in like three or four weeks. Like I'll check and then they'll like, you know, then they'll do it again. And we were brand new. We had somebody say they lost our file. So we were on a podcast.

For a long time, we had a chip on our shoulder about that because it bothered us that we did this kind of cross promo. Oh, yes. Yeah, another fitness podcast. At that time, we were the small fitness podcast. And you know, we did this kind of cross promo. Oh yes. Yeah, another fitness podcast. We were, at that time, we were the small fitness podcast and we did this crossing. Well, we aired theirs and then they, oh, we couldn't find, we lost the file.

And we went, Did you guys surpass them? Oh my gosh. Which podcast was it? Yeah. I don't know if I want to cast. Let's go in your show. Off air, I'll tell you.

Okay, you'll tell me. Yeah, off air, I'll tell you. Why don't you guys have a girl to like kind of balance, I kind of was just like, I don't, I wish, I wish that was a girl. Yeah, me too, I'll fear I'll take you why don't you guys have a girl to like kind of balance like kind of I don't I wish I wish I was a girl. Yeah, I know Is just how it happened? I mean, you would be hot The truth is we if and then because we get asked that quite I actually hate that question But I get very annoyed when someone else that question Well, no, and let me tell you why I do is because the decision to have Sal and Justin as my partners had nothing to do with their sex.

And if I had a female version, one of them, I would actually much rather than be that we do more, we'd be more successful because someone would be like, oh, there's a girl in there. It's just that I don't have to sit with the current culture. Yeah, that would be great. It's just that we're not picking people to talk to based off of immutable characteristics. Right, or like gender. You know who does a really good job is smartless. Have you guys ever heard that part podcast? No, no, no.

You have got, because it's the sim, they have three people. It's called smartless with Jason Bateman, Will, Sean Hayes, and Will, this is name? No. Will, Arnette. Is it? Yeah, Will, this is name? No. Will Arnett. Is it? Yeah, Will Arnett. Boom.

Yeah, and they are freaking hilarious together. And I listened to it. I could care less who the guest is, but they're banter and they're like, all they do is like rip on each other and it's hilarious. This is what connected the three of us. Like we did not sit in a room and go, we should all podcast it.

We sat in a room and there was this unbelievable, the conversation was so dynamic that Katrina, my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, was in the kitchen, was so enthralled by this. She went over to the iPad and recorded the two hours of us talking in the living room because she was so into the conversation. That was the first time we met.

The first time we met, yes. The very first time we all met, there was just this dynamic chemistry of the three of us all just having conversation, talking shit to each other, picking on each other, like, that was our personalities. And like I said, I'd rather one of them be a girl, but they weren't, and that's how it all played out. Right.

And because of my integrity and their integrity, we would never go seek out putting a girl on the show just to put a girl. Just because we know that there's a lot of people that ask that. And I know that we would appease a certain percentage of the population just to say like, oh, and here's our fourth host, Jen, you know,

it's just because she's a girl. Oh, thank you, I love love to be here. You know what I'm saying? Like if we did that just to appease the people that think we need to be sexually balanced, I just, I, that wouldn't sit well with me. No, I told, and I appreciate the integrity. I guess because you would think, not always,

I would think just in terms of like a girl's perspective, not in terms of the ban to her back and forth. Oh, there it is. But it's more because of the, you know, when you guys do such great conversations, having some maybe have a female perspective. I mean, I don't know. Well here's the reason

what we bring on the show. But here's also. I'm hinting that maybe I want to, don't you guys can make it in? Just try to say something. I don't know. Well that's, it's so close. He's so like, you know, god you're like,

Oh it's been, it's actually been a, we've probably get hit with that question, I don't know. Maybe once a month still that someone's, Yeah, yeah, it comes, it comes a lot. It came a lot at very beginning. And here's the thing, our conversation, especially around fitness, 75% of my clientele for two decades was women.

I'm better at talking to women about fitness than I am men. I have more practice, more of an expertise in that. I've had to go back and read and troubleshoot all the things about the female body that I can't say I can share. And learn about it myself. And then learn how to communicate it to them. And then also learn to have empathy

and understanding when I'm not a female. So we've all learned that skill for two decades of training real people. So it's not much different on here communicating. And the truth is different perspectives are always great. Whether it's a man, another guy, or a woman, or whatever, different perspectives are always great,

but they have to bring value, and they have to be able to communicate effectively, and do a good job. And then I don't care. Man, woman, you know, they don't identify as either. I don't care. Those are the criteria that we would look for. But, but here's a deal, like we've already built our dynamic with us.

I don't think we'd ever add another person. We're not into open relationships. I mean, I could commit it to each other. You know, really well. You know, I've already tried. I've already tried. I've not got to knock it. I have. You know, really well. You know, I heard it before. I'd knock it. I tried it. You know, I do think that, I mean, the way that we,

we started to build this and the way we continue to scale it is with the intent of being able to remove ourselves. So I don't, I would not be surprised if one day that one of us is not sitting in this chair and that we find in a female personality that we're like, oh my God, Adam, it, Jen is like the female version of you and you're trying to scale out of that position.

Let's see if we can pay her enough money to be on the show. I 100% could see that happening. But that's what would make that decision is that you and I are so alike and that you are now filling my chair. Right, that makes sense to me. Has nothing to do with your sex. It's that your personality probably, and there's like, we know a guy who's like kind

of like Sal, we know guy that's like Justin. Really? Yeah, yeah. Well, they're not. Like doppelgangers. No, no, no. It's your personality wise and strengths that they bring to the business. Because that's the other part that's very important. Everybody in here has a very important role to this company.

But you're a role, Justin. Just looking at the answer. It's being awesome. That's real easy. Yeah. He's definitely. I calm them down because they talk a lot and I'm trying to like sometimes we'll get really heavy in in certain content and I think that it really it's just my own like I've gone through school and I get bored and so I like to

interject and make sure like we're still having fun. Yeah. And so half of that is like you know let's keep having a good time about this. This is getting too heavy or this getting too serious with, you know, political stuff in the beginning or whatever. But like for me, it's about, you know, being able to educate but have a good time doing it. Well, that's your role. That's his role in a show. But behind the scenes, you got to understand that. Justin is more of an integrator than Sal and I. So Justin does a lot of technical stuff. When all of our videos, all of our programs

that have been written and stuff like that, he heads all that up. Oh wow. And him and Doug are way more organized and Sal and I are a mess. Sal and I are the sticky notes. We both need assistance to remind us what to do today. Like, we're a mess.

You're like that too, Sal? Oh my God. He's worse than me. Yeah, you tell me what to do and I'll do it good, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do today, like we're a mess. You're like that to sell? Oh my God. He's worse than me. Yeah, you tell me what to do and I'll do it good, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do yet. Really? Absolutely. Because you seem like the academic.

I definitely, I like to read, I like to recite, I like to talk about those kinds of things, but organization is not my forte. Yeah. No, definitely not. I'll show up and I'll make it happen, but I'd much rather know five minutes before Sal, this is what you're supposed to do. Today, here's what's gonna happen here, done. I'm on point, but I'm not working.

That's how we did. So Justin and I were connected 15 years ago, and what he was my, first, I hired him as a trainer, then became my right-hand man, my assistant. What attracted to me to his business skills was he was the opposite of me. All of my weaknesses were his strengths. And so we were, as a team, we were incredible.

Doug and Sal, same thing. Sal found Doug because Doug was the organized integrator and they built a relationship before my pump. That's how this all came together was. And that's why we all hit it off so well is Sal and I have a lot in common. Our strengths are similar similar our weaknesses are similar We've also met partners that are our weaknesses are their strengths

And so that's why it works so beautifully when we all got together that's so interesting And so I'm very that's why I'm very Similar to you sound and to you Adam. We all have the same Strength set and you need a Justin and I do yeah Yeah. You'll have adjustment. You'll have adjustment. I have someone who is like a Justin or Doug, but it's not as full time as I need and it's funny because it's like in a Achilles heel of mine. So when you were talking about that, that's really what kind of slows me down to be honest and makes you much more much less efficient.

So if you like I said, if you if you're able to like take, you know, know your strengths and find and supplement those weaknesses, it's skyrocket, it's your success and your ability to thrive. We would not be able, if Sal and I were by ourselves, this business would look completely different, but well, it wouldn't be a business. Justin and Doug, we rely heavily on to integrate everything. We don't. We absolutely are terrible at that. But we recognize, we all recognize that early and we're very comfortable with admitting my weaknesses and I know that Justin's that strength

and Doug is that for sale and that's why it works so well. So yeah, on the show, people get to know our personalities and they just, like you mentioned before we got on the podcast, you know, Sal wrote the book. So he must be the one who runs all this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People assume a lot of shit, but have no idea.

No idea, yeah. When you hear when we talk is just our personalities. And here's another thing, like Justin is definitely an X factor because Adam and I are very polarizing. Very strong opinions, very polarizing. You either love us or you hate us. Without Justin. It's just a rating.

Yeah. Well, I mean, without Justin, I know we would have, we'd be much more polarized and it would be much more serious at times and much more not as entertaining and fun and Justin brings that. Now, by the way, this wasn't like planned. We just made it happen to work, you know, just happened to talk. So this is all hindsight, right?

But that's when the best things happen, right? When it's kind of, it was there was like such an organic thing that happened naturally, and it grew in itself. And I think that that, again, like that authenticity is the reason for your success. Most people, like we just mentioned,

don't have that type of ability. They're fearful, there's water down. They have all of those things, and you guys have a beautiful balance, and your banter is great. It's like the smart list, but in the health and fitness base. But it's also like, I think it's, people make a mistake trying to force

a square peg into a round hole. I don't remember when you and I did the video, the cooking with Jen, I think it was called. Oh, yeah. Yes, with you. And they had a square. And they wanted, and she was like, Jen was like, can we just go?

Like, I know what we need to do. Let's just go and why? Because they and look, we had a great time. We did great, I think, but I was seeing what they were doing. I was seeing what they were doing and I felt like telling them, listen, you're making, you're going to make her not as good by continuing to push, let her do a thing and I guarantee it'll be much better.

Oh, 100%. The second that someone puts restrictions on you or me or whatever, that's when things become like a total mess, right? Or like awkward. Yeah, like okay, here's the product, you know what you need to say, here's what you're gonna make, now have fun.

It's gonna be way better, because that's who you are. Yeah, but knowing what that strength is, a lot of people, there's a lot of people who need to have regimented scripts. Which is fun. Which and you know exactly what they have to stay and do do do and they work better in that environment. But this all comes right back down to self-awareness, knowing who you are, knowing what you're,

when you thrive, when you do well, when you do really shitty and like kind of working within those confines is how you become like, that's how you thrive. Yeah, absolutely, thank you. You're always so fun to talk to. Oh gosh, are we done? of working within those confines is how you become like that's how you thrive. Yeah absolutely. Thank you. You're always so fun to talk to. Oh gosh. Yeah.

Are we done? Yeah. I mean if we don't we're going to talk you right on your plane. Oh wow. Okay. I am starving by the end. No this has been a blast. I appreciate you coming on to it.

I'm so happy to be here. And we'll make you a regular. I do like having you come down. So we'll make you a regular to come down here and hang out with me. I just like I just really like you come down. So we'll make you a regular to come down here hang out. I just like I just really like Like like you guys. Oh cool. I feel like this is very and I just feel that you guys are very like comfort Like I feel like I've known you guys for a very long time. Yeah, even though I kind of have but I haven't spoken to you that much But it's very familiar. You feel familiar. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you very much

Thank you for coming off. Yeah, except you justice You get to know the same level. We'll have lunch. We'll get to know the same level. I'm teasing you. I know, I'm too. All right, look, if you like our content, you got to head over to mindpumpfreet.com.

We've got so much free stuff. It's incredible. Go check that out. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin at MindPump. Justin, me at MindPump. Sal and Adam at MindPump. Adam, what's your Instagram?

The Real Jen Cohen. There you go. Find her. She's awesome too your Instagram? The real Jen Cohen. There you go. Fine, her, she's awesome too. Mapped the fake one. Yeah. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS and a BOLIC. MAPS for Foreman includes MAPSANABOLIC, MAPSTERFORMENT and MAPSISTEDIC, 9 months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal

trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindP Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.