Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1681: The Optimal Body Fat Percentage for Building Muscle, Staying Disciplined With Workout & Diet, the Best Intra-Workout Foods & Drinks & More

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin discuss whether there is an optimal body fat percentage for building muscle, advice for someone who tends to hop between training programs and diet plans, the benefits of intra workout food & drinks, and how to get over the fear of failing when wanting to become an entrepreneur. Is the pump sometimes overrated? (5:20) Finally, a positive way to give your kids a ‘complex’. (13:03) The Caldera partnership has been fully received by the ‘pump heads’. (19:34) Why we should have exceptions to the rule in the criminal justice system. (22:34) Understanding the excitement surrounding the Metaverse. (26:27) Breaking down the Double-slit experiment and its relation to the simulation. (30:54) Revisiting the Zillow conversation and future of the housing market. (39:39) Yet another reason to increase your financial IQ and resiliency. (50:03) #Quah question #1 – Is there an optimal body fat percentage for building muscle? (58:43) #Quah question #2 – What advice do you have for someone who tends to hop between training programs and diet plans? (1:06:41) #Quah question #3 – What’s your take on intra workouts and drinks? What are the benefits of incorporating them, and what are some good options? (1:13:36) #Quah question #4 - How to get over the fear of failing when wanting to become an entrepreneur? (1:18:12) Related Links/Products Mentioned November Promotion: MAPS Anywhere and the Fit Mom Bundle – Both 50% off! **Promo code “NOVEMBER50” at checkout** Mind Pump #1675: Eight Ways To Get The BEST Muscle Pump Visit Paleo Valley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “Mindpump15” at checkout for 15% discount** Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code “mindpump” at checkout for the discount** Man killed his daughter's boyfriend for selling her into sex trafficking ring, police say Microsoft Teams enters the metaverse race with 3D avatars and immersive meetings Double-slit experiment - Wikipedia Nick Bostrom: The Threat Of Artificial Intelligence - Elon Musks Biggest Fear Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies – Book by Nick Bostrom Opendoor shares soar on optimism of gains in iBuying after Zillow exit 77% of people who inherit family wealth lose it in less than 3-years Visit Oli Pop for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “mindpump” at checkout for 15% off your first order** Mind Pump #1512: The Value Of Following A Workout Program Mind Pump #1522: How To Stay Consistent With Your Diet & Workout Visit Drink LMNT for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Your Next Five Moves: Master the Art of Business Strategy – Book by Patrick Bet-David Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Patrick Bet-David (@patrickbetdavid)  Instagram Robert Kiyosaki (@therealkiyosaki)  Twitter

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, ob-mite, ob-with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is my mom. Alright, so we answered some fitness and health questions in this episode. By the way, if you ever want to get your question featured on these podcasts, go to Instagram, go to MindPump Media,

check out the Qua memes, that's Q-U-A-H. There's a story behind that. But anyway, post your question underneath, and we may pick it and answer it live on air. But anyway, the way we open the episode is with an intro portion. This is where we talk about current events and we talk about fitness and studies

and we talk about our sponsors. Today's intro was 53 minutes. After that, we get to the fitness question. So here's what went down in today's podcast. We open up by talking about how the pump sometimes is overrated. I know we did an episode. We love.

Talking about how the pump is so great, and it is, but don't marry it because there are benefits to workouts that don't induce a phenomenal pump. Then I talk about how I'm giving my kids paleo valley organ complex supplements. So these are freeze dried organ meats in capsule form. So liver, beef, beef liver, heart, kidney, super nutrient dense, lots of health benefits.

You take it into capsule, you don't taste anything, and you get all the benefits. Paleo Valley makes them, they're great, they have other great products as well. Go check them out, head over to paleovali.com forward slash mind pump, use the code mind pump 15 for 15% off your first order. Then we talked about Caldera, another sponsor that makes face serum and a face mask and moisturizer. Now I know it sounds funny hearing guys like us talk about this stuff, but our faces look really good. So there you go.

And people who've gone there have said this is the best product they've ever used for their face. It's all natural, very effective. Go check check them out head over to caldera lab Dot com forward slash mine pump that C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B dot com forward slash mine pump and then use the code mine pump for 20% off Then we talked about the guy the dad who killed his girlfriend's daughter's boyfriend This is like that. What's that movie called? Oh, it's like taken. Literally the plot from taken, Liam Nielsen.

This guy's going to jail. He should be giving him a medal, that's what I think. Then we talked about the metaverse, Microsoft is getting in on this kind of crazy. We had some good conversations around that. Then we talked about the double split experiment, quantum physics, you know, stuff that's in our wheelhouse. Yeah, we were the fun.

We went all quantum money, guys. We talked about Nick Bostrom, who wrote this really cool book on AI. We talked about the new arms race that's going on around the world, these hypersonic missiles. You can't catch up to these arms. Right, so Justin's got some big guns coming out of his shirt there. Good thing for the second amendment there, huh? Yeah, it's a good thing.

Then we talked about Zillow and other large real estate purchasing companies buying up real estate like crazy. And then we talked about how eight out of ten people who get an inheritance end up losing all of it within like a few years. Like they lose it all. So, so weird, it's like just giving people money, doesn't necessarily mean much sometimes. We've spoiled kids. Then we got to the questions, all right? So here's the first one that we answered.

Is there an optimal body fat percentage for building muscle? The second question is, what advice do you have for someone who tends to hop between training programs and diet plans? So somebody that loses motivation and has to get on a new program to get motivated again, like, what can we do to help you?

The next question, this person wants to know what we think about intra workout drinks. And the final question, this person wants to know how you can get over the fear of failing when you're starting out a new business or trying to become an entrepreneur. Also, all month long, huge sale, 50% off maps anywhere. This is the equipment-free workout program

or you need our bands. And 50% off our Fit Mom bundle, which includes maps anywhere, maps it, maps in a ballac and the intuitive nutrition guide. So they're all in that bundle, all already discounted, and you can take an additional 50% off. So this is a huge savings. If you're interested, head over to mapsfitinusproducts.com and use the code November 50, that's November 5-0,

with no space for that discount. T-shirt time! And it's T-shirt time! T-shirt time! Shit, dog, you know it's my favoriteshirt time. Oh! Shit, dog, you know it's my favorite time of the week. That's gotta be the longest one I've ever heard. Oh my God. We've got three winners for Apple Podcasts. The Yodel.

The voice just kills me. We've got two winners for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are T Frisbee, Spin Run Lift 18, Pop Star 21. And for Facebook, we have one never as an Shina Gardner. All five of you are winners and the name I just read to iTunes at MindPumpMedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

Hey, I want to start out this episode by talking about the pump and how sometimes it's overrated. Sometimes? Okay, so we just highlighted it. I know, we just did a whole episode. Now, I've got to bring it down or not. No, you know, the pump has got value. We've talked about it in a previous episode. However, there are times when the pump is not what you're seeking and that's okay because

the types of workouts that don't necessarily provide or produce the best pump can sometimes also be extremely productive in terms of giving you great results. For example, this morning I did an old school five by five workout. That's not gonna give me a pump like supersets or sets of 12 or squeezing and stretching and all that stuff.

I'm not doing many isolation movements. It's like bench press row or head press, that kind of stuff. But lots of value. When I do those kind of workouts at the right time, I get, I build muscle, I get stronger. So it's important to talk about that because I think you can go in one direction,

fall in love with it and forget that there's value. Are there other examples where you are, obviously athletic performance, it is not ideal to get a pump. But what else? Like power lifting, you don't really care, right? The goal is to get stronger. You don't care, but does it really hinder you much?

That doesn't hinder you. Not like athletic performance. Oh, I hear what you're saying. Yeah, like where does it hinder you? Yeah, where is the pump, not good for training. Oh, well that's different. That's how it's done for. That's what it has to be.

But I can't think of another time where it would be a problem, right? That's the only thing that comes to mind. Your training looks smaller. You said nobody. No. Man, I said nobody. I looked at all.

I can't fit in this outfit. No, that's true. I've actually trained athletes. I never forget, my very first client ever told this to me. I was baffled. I was a new athletes. I never forget my very first client ever told this to me. I was baffled. I was a new trainer and I got this motocross racer, which you know, I didn't even know. At the time, I was like, oh yeah, that's a sport.

And he says, yeah, my number one goal is to train my grip and my forearms. So I said, oh, I know how to do all that. You know, there's lots of exercises. And I said, so what's the issue? And he goes, well, about halfway through my races, and he didn't say the pump because he wasn't in with the and I said, so what's the issue? And he goes, well, about halfway through my races, and he didn't say the pump because he wasn't in with the lingo,

right? He says, my forearms get so tight, and I lose the dexterity of my hands and their function. And I'm like, you mean like they get pumped? And he goes, yeah, exactly. I'm like, what? I got a train even away to, so you don't get a pump? So you're doing the pump?

Yeah, I experienced in Jiu- Jitsu and Judo for sure. Like when that would hit, forget it. Grabbing on the key and do anything? Yeah, yeah. You ever tried rock climbing? Like that was an experience for me. That'd be killer, I was like a immediate like pump that like made it so I couldn't even keep going

or grabbing things properly. So I noticed it there for sure. Yeah, no. I mean, what I was referring to really is just some workouts. If you get a pump grade, if you don't, doesn't mean you had a bad workout. Like strength focused type of workout.

No, it's a good point to bring up because I was very attached to that in my early years of training, like the pump. And a lot of that is the superficial idea that you have gotten bigger today. Totally. And so as a young boy that was training to get bigger and wanted to be bigger, a lot of my workout was like,

okay, I look awesome today. So I was chasing that feeling and that look. And if I didn't get that, I felt discouraged about the workout. If I left and I didn't get this super aired up feeling, I would leave the workout sometimes and feel like, oh, that was an okay workout. When in reality, that could have been

the best workout for me at the time or even better than some of the workouts that I'd done chasing the pomp. I think a lot of people probably get sucked into that same thing, especially if you were insecure. Yeah, addicted to it. Yeah, but it was trying to get big. Yeah, if you're not building that foundational strength

to keep kind of moving, build mass beneath that, it's like, it's gonna be fleeting after. Well, I still think it's so fascinating to me that, and I've brought this up several times in the show, I know, Sally, we've kind of speculated on what's happening and there's a lot of theories and ideas, but I don't think we have any like exactly what's happened,

but there's definitely something that I have noticed when I have started to focus on strain training more so than hypertrophy training, and that is that the muscle tends to look like it hangs around all day, versus when I'd always train for the pump, meaning like I'd get this massive pump, I'd look the biggest ever, but as soon as I walk out of the gym an hour later and I deflate, I go back down to this skinny version

of me still, and I trained like that for years. And then when I really started to strength train, what I noticed was I may not have aired up as much, but then the muscle that I had built, it didn't matter if I was pumped up or not, I could see that I was more muscular or bigger in the middle of the day, which I think is really interesting. Yeah, the old-school bodybuilders would say that the heavy training produced a granite hard muscle, it's like a granite hard look, and then the pump training gave you the

big, yeah, billowy kind of round looking looking muscles. And the old school bodybuilders would incorporate both. I brought this up before where Arnold used to do like a cycle. Now, majority of his training to be fair was more of that bodybuilding training. But he would do a cycle of pure strength training and he said it always gave him more kind of a granite look. And they would write about this in magazines. And this was all speculation, you know, what's the science behind it? I guess we could speculate and say one causes more

muscle fiber growth and the other one causes more circle plasmic growth, all that fluid and stuff that's in muscle. Obviously both of them is a lot of crossover and they contribute to each other, so I think they're both important. But I noticed the same thing. When I really got into deadlifting, I mean, you're not gonna get a huge pump when you're deadlift, especially if you do it in low reps. But I got this really hard, kind of strong muscular back from it. Never got a back pump really from deadlifting. Not like doing higher rep pull downs or rows.

Me either, but the greatest back pump I've ever had in my life is heavy deadlifting and then afterwards do you have a pull-up? Oh, what a good point. And then going to do lap. What a good point. That's pump I've ever had on my back. I noticed the same thing. Is that combination.

So it's like the strength, you don't get the pump, but you're pulling heavy. Yes. Then you go to the more hypertrophic. Yes. Absolutely. And those two specific, it became like, and I remember I just kind of fell on it.

Like it wasn't like something that I was going in with that intent. I just, oh, I have done, I was heavy dead lifting. This was during the time when I was really trying to push the weight and dead lift. And that was the main focus, strength focused. And then after I'd done like, you know, four or five sets,

I was like, oh, you know, I'm gonna do some lap pull out. It's been a while since I've done that. And I just had the most admit. And after that, that became like my favorite thing to do. Like the thing we always talk about, right? I like it. I didn't do any for the next seven months

every time I did that that I did lap pull down for it because my back had this, I've never felt my back, my entire back pumped. Right. Like when you do certain back exercises, you feel the lads, the traps, little more maybe wrong boys, or maybe your low back. Like, but I felt like the entire back felt like it was on it.

Yeah, I've had the same experience. It must be that muscle recruitment process, right? So you're getting more muscle fibers where it connected, and then we're pumping them, you know, immediately after that. It almost seems like more receptive. Yeah, I tried it. I tried to wrap my brain around exactly why that was why it was so effective for me. I can't think of an exercise that creates more tension and load on the whole back than a deadlift

Right, you're gonna pull 500 pounds You don't do 500 pounds of anything with your back, right besides a deadlift So it's got to be something like that. Right has to be well Especially since it really lights up the low back more so than almost any other back exercise, right? That you're doing something like hyper extensions like yeah, so oh, so I wanna tell you guys, so my kids graduated to actual supplements. So I was, for a while there, I was giving them like gummy stuff. Oh yeah, right. Because I didn't, you know, I'd give them things

to like a capsule or a pill to swallow. See, I always thought to them like, we didn't have those and we were kids, but like we had like shitty cough syrup that was just like was just all sugar. It's like, it's dead stones, do you remember what it's like? Yeah, it's dead stones and you're a kid. But those tastes like garbage, it tastes like vitamins.

Did your parents give you guys Flintstones? Yeah, yeah, so did mine. Yeah, we had Flintstones. You know my mom gave me? I had the horse pills, did she? She gave me, oh, you had the legit one. Yeah, it was like, whew, like choking my way down. No wonder you're such a beast.

Yeah, we have the crop training. I don't know. I had the ones I thought were candy, I was eating like five or six. No, you're, yeah choking my way down. No wonder you're such a beast. Yeah, we have this kind of training. I don't know. I had the ones that I thought were candy. I was eating like five or six. No, you were. Yeah, in the back. Try to sneak more. My mom, we had Flintstone vitamins,

and then she gave me, God, what's it called? Carnation instant breakfast or something? Oh, yeah, yeah. Cause it said I had all the vitamins in the mouth. Oh, and then she bought like a stolen fast type of shit. Like oval teen, like that was like good for you. Oval teen, no, with my kids for a while now,

I've been giving them like a gummy vitamin D or whatever and now what I'm doing is I've got the paleo valley organ complex and that's gonna kind of serve as their multivitamin. Because they don't need organ meats. I sneak it in their food sometimes where I'll take liver and put a little bit in the ground beef and make patties. If I go a little too heavy though in the liver,

they for sure can tell, because I can tell that it doesn't taste good. You know, that's stupid pain. It's finally a positive way to give your kids a complex. Yeah, so I'm giving them organ complex from Paleo Valley, which is what has got liver, kidney, heart in it. Nature's kind of multivitamin. It's not the one you use most often if you're not getting in.

Because I know you obviously always target naturally, right? I know you try to get it, but I'm getting liver every single week is tough for some people. It's not, I mean, I'm gonna be honest. It doesn't taste good. And you're gonna go buy it. Yeah, disguise it, and that's just it. Yeah, it just doesn't taste good.

It looks gross, handling it. I know I sound like a big wimp, but whatever, it's true. So yes, the organ complex is, it's really freeze dried organs, and it's in capsule form so super easy to try. I'm gonna have to try that. I was just having conversation with the kids, like they're now old enough to sort of look back

and remember that like why their waffles were green and why like,, and why certain things like taste a little different, right? And then would they go out and order at a restaurant, for instance, and we started to tell them like it had a lot of spinach in it, it had a lot of kale and all these things that we just would intentionally blend in there

and it was great, it was just funny because they had this like, oh man, knew something was different. Like it just dawned on them. What were we talking about? What were we used that as a metaphor? We were all talking off air one time together. Are they being switched or something like that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no We were writing the program, we're talking about like our strategy for clients is to like sneak the spinach into their into the pants

Yeah, it's like over complicating why we're doing this isometric training right here or why we're doing like the specific thing We're just selling it in a way that they want to hear. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna make you look good Right, do you remember that conversation? Yeah, we're giving medicine with sugar. Yeah, yeah, yeah Totally, totally, 100 percent. You know, it's funny too, old school bodybuilders swore by supplementing with desiccated liver tablets. Organ meat. It was before any supplement became a thing. It was cream.

Before any supplement became a thing, they would take seven to 10, no joke, desiccated liver tablets between every meal and swore by the results that they got from it. The muscle, the strength, all that stuff. And do they put anything in it or is it purely just organ? That's all it is. It's just organ.

Like if you were to throw it all out and then measure it in a way, it would be equivalent to you, say I took the nine capsules out, it equals three ounces. It's equivalent to that. You listen to that, but yeah. Yeah, okay. So, or an answer to, equivalent to taking an answer to of the meat. Yeah, and now here's the thing, but yeah. Well, yeah, okay, so are it an answer to? Is it equivalent to taking an answer to the meat? Yeah, and now here's the thing with organ meats. They're so nutrient dense that you can actually

overdo it. Oh, yeah. If you eat liver every day, you could run the risk of overdoing some nutrients. It's so dense. Is that true? Because I thought I remember reading, I remember I used to say that as a trainer

when I first started that, like why we need, it was my pitch to sell supplements. I remember that when I was first starting. And it was that in order for us to hit all of our daily requirements for nutrients, you would have to consume close to 3,500 calories plus liver. That makes you a little bit worse. Plus liver every single day and you can't do that. Then that was my point.

And you can't do that because our metabolism slowed down so much that you can't eat 3,500 calories without putting body fat on. So this is why we need to use stuff. No, forget the calorie aspect. It's just so high in nutrients that you would eat ridiculous amounts of things like iron, vitamin A, could be an issue. You know, things that get stored in the body. So, you know, supplementing a little bit every day is not a bad. So if you ate liver every day, you think you could technically overdo that? Yeah, if you look at the liver con. Like if Doug brings up the iron content of one chicken liver, which is not small, I don't know if you've ever seen

the size of one. Yeah, really small. Look at the nutrient content, you'll see this. Super, super dense. Is it by itself your total RDA for like iron or something? I don't know, I don't know, we'll have to look it up. Yeah, I would not. I've heard that.

I find that interesting, there's not a lot of things that we can eat in nature that would overdo it, you know. Oh, it wasn't that way. I was like one of the prized organs when there was a kill. So nine milligrams of iron per two and a half ounce. So what's the RDA for? You know, you'll go the RDA for iron. And remember, this is this is a hemi iron. This is extremely absorbable usable iron. It's not like the iron you get from, oh wow, just eight million. We're at eight to 18 for women.

So for pre-manopausal woman is 18. The median dietary intake of iron approximately 16 to 18. And that was nine. So that's, it's only half, bro. Yeah, but that's that on top of anything else you may eat, especially if you take a multivitamin, you start to run into some issues. You could right I guess if you also had that because you would most likely have by the way

This isn't just have a chicken liver by itself. You also have it with you know eight ounces of steak, too Yes, but also considered that's for women who are menstruating so if you look at post menopausal women and men it's eight Yeah, so men way less iron than women who obviously men straight because they lose so much iron. That's why they're multivitamin always has a bunch more iron. Exactly. Exactly.

So yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. Actually speaking of sponsors, I want to ask you, I know we're, I'm sure we could discuss some of this on air. We're looking to reduce some of our agreements and contracts. How are we doing with this? How are they doing with us? We're almost, let's see here, I think last night, Katrina and I went over, we had, I want

to say like three partners left to still talk about, and actually, I mean, it was crazy. It started over a month and a half ago if everybody wanted to renew for the following year. So it's been, yeah, yeah. So we've got most everybody, a couple of companies, two or three companies still left. You know what's, you know, talking about the renewing sponsors that we actually had a call with Caldera just a couple of days ago. And it blows my mind.

I mean, I remember, I don't know if you guys remember, I think that got sent to us. And I was like, I started using it. I'm like, I really want to promote this. And you guys were like, I don't know, dude. Skincare. Yeah. Skincare, I don't think it's gonna do well. I don't think we'll be able to do it. Beauty guys. Yeah, I don't know, dude. Skin care. Yeah, skin care.

I don't think it's gonna do well. I don't think we'll be able to do it. Beauty guys. Yeah, I don't think we're gonna be able to give them their arms. Even though we look like it. No, I guess. And you guys had me a little skeptical

and my kind of selfish part of it was like, well, I just want to do it so I can get some free shit. And hopefully I can keep it and use it. And if the partnership doesn't work out. And they, I mean, they were telling us like they obviously do advertising with all kinds of different companies. And they were telling us, they obviously do advertising with all kinds of different companies. And companies are very health-beauty specific

and nobody produces. So our audience received that partnership better than I would have ever anticipated. A big part of it, I would imagine, maybe you know this better than I do since you handled this, is the repurchase rights. It's not a cheap product, right it's it's not a cheap product right? It's definitely not a cheap product.

So I'm sure a lot of people at first glance like, oh wow, it's kind of expensive to try some face stuff. But if you do, I have yet to meet somebody who used it and go like, I don't see a difference. I mean, and we've seen the crazy testimonies we've had on the forum and stuff of people showing before and after's of like a month of using it or something. I think that one guy with his hands, like was 10 days or something like that. Yeah, and I've had a lot of people

who also have psoriasis or eggs, and I have dry skin like I do, and they've now also moved in that direction, which I love, that's the main reason why I use it is for my psorica to have the psoriasis spots over my head and my shins and stuff, and instead of using like a steroid cream, which is what the... Well, I never use anything on my face, ever instead of using like a steroid cream, which is what the-

Well, I never use anything on my face ever. I have naturally oily, you know, Mediterranean, Mediterranean skin, I guess I hate that way. But I'm always afraid to put anything, because I'm like, it's going to just make me oilier, which is, no, it balances me out too. Which is kind of, and Justin, who's the opposite, he's dry. Yeah. It makes it- Dry as a bone. As a bone. I still haven't done the mask yet. Have you done the mask yet, Doug? I know you said that you were down.

Yeah, I did it. Oh, you did it. Yeah. It worked well. Can you tell? Okay, so it's not a peel off one. It's just like a lather. It's like a mud mask.

Okay. So it's a good part. Yeah, it gets dry. So it's fairly thin. And then you just put it on your face, let it dry out a bit, and then just rinse it off. Yeah. And then you put warm water on and how did you feel after? I've turned on the view.

I mean, it felt great. How many times have you done it now? Just once. Oh, okay, so you just did it. I need to do it. I haven't done it yet. Hey, trivia guy, Justin. Yeah.

What is that movie with Liam Neilsson where the kidnap is a daughter? Oh, you've done it. He's just jumped again. I had to because you guys don't want to give me an opportunity. Hey, you know yesterday you guys were like, I know things. Yesterday you guys so surprised at you. I know.

Fuck these guys. I'm gonna get all off and talk to you guys. We're congratulating you. So did you guys hear about this dad that so they're calling him the, the taken, I'm gonna pull this up because this is, what? Bro, this is a crazy story.

This happened to him. So, and this guy, he's going to jail. This guy's got abducted and he went, he said, go to jail, he's going to cause. Here what happened? See, we should have exceptions to the rule in the justice system. Well, listen to what happened in my opinion.

His daughter, pardon him. His daughter had a boyfriend. The boyfriend sold his daughter into sex trafficking. Okay, so the boyfriend of his daughter, took his daughter, basically kidnapped her, sold her into sex trafficking. Okay, so the boyfriend of his daughter took his daughter, basically kidnapped her, sold her into sex trafficking. The father, it's just like the movie, finds out, rescues his daughter, then he finds the boyfriend and fucking kills him and puts him in the trunk of his car. Anyway, any way justice gets caught and is going to jail now. He's going to

jail for murder. Wow. I know. How what's the age there? Like how old is she and how old was the boyfriend? I don't know. But so this happened in this so check this out. So this is happened in 2015. This isn't no 2020. Okay. So you've been known to bring stories. I know. It's happened in 19. So listen to what happened to he abducted the boyfriend, tied him up, placed him in the trunk of a vehicle, then he hit him in the head with a cinder block, and then stabbed him repeatedly. You're killing him basically.

So now he's going to jail for murder. Well, I know how protective I am and I have a son. I 100% really. Yeah, you can't, obviously, you have a daughter. Like I can only imagine, because I know, like it's weird, I think we talked about this before where I'll watch like a show now or a movie or something. And it was, I remember, in fact it was like a medieval movie

I was watching. I shared this in the podcast a long time ago when I first had Max. And the, the, the, the, like King came in and to this little village and basically said, we're taking all the first born sons, right, they take them, you know, and I can't remember why or what they do,

but that was like, that's part of what happened. You're too dumb. Oh, dude, I got enraged. You know, it was like 10 o'clock a night I'm by myself watching this, and I remember like, I never felt that kind of emotion go through me, because for the first time in my life I could actually connect to what, you know, in the

past, you watch that, you're like, oh, that sucks. So that's fucked up. But you don't feel it. I felt it like, whoa, if that happened to me or someone took my son, like, what would I do? You know, and that dad's faced with that. Like, if he does anything, he gets killed, the son gets killed, his wife gets killed. So he has to stand back and just let them take his kid or else they all die.

So like, what do you do in that situation? I don't know, but I mean, if I can understand why this dad would have done that. Yeah, and the problem was that he planned it all out because there's been other cases where like all the are premeditated if he would have just like reacted. Correct. He could have probably like, yeah, because it was another man in Texas

where he walked in on somebody, like sexually assaulting his daughter and he beat the guy to death ended up not going to jail because you know it was like a he was in the moment. Yeah and he was in rage and so so but because this appeared to be planned that now he's going to jail so it's like how do you like I'm all thinking of my head like how would I structure it to look like I'm getting more calculated. How do I pre-meditate more to make sure it looks like I did.

Yeah, exactly. I ran into him on the street and just was overcome with rage. You just murdered him right there on the street. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, crazy story that, you know, that that happened. I mean, you missed with someone's kid. It's like, you know, and who knows what the whole story is.

You know, maybe that's the good thing. And that's recent that happened this year is. 2020. Oh, wow. That's crazy. I know, dude. I wanted to, so there's's what good. That's recent that happened this year is 20. Oh, that's crazy. I know, dude. I wanted to, so there's a couple of things I've been wanting to talk to you guys today because I had been reading some articles, I listened to some podcasts and there was two conversations that I want to continue with you guys. One of them was the conversation around Facebook's meta and then the other one was the Zillow

Talk we're talking. First start with Facebook. Yeah, start with Facebook. How much do you guys know about this metaverse that they're trying to do? Did you guys know also that Microsoft is building a competitive one at the same time, right? Do you know that?

So it's kind of like this race to, and I didn't know this. Like so. It's the multiverse chest, and this is how it started. What's good? So there's, you have the big ones, right? You have Google, you have the big ones, right? You have Google and Apple are more interested in AR and Facebook and Microsoft are more interested in the virtual reality.

So you have AR versus VR. Augmentary reality versus virtual reality. Right. And Augmentary reality is more like Google glasses where you'd be able to put them on and then it integrates with real world stuff. It's like the movie free guy when he puts the glasses on. They mean me to be shit.

Yes, that's more realistic, personally. Well, I mean, there's a lot of arguments that they're both equally realistic and the question is, will they live together or will they be exclusive of each other? When you wake up and go to work or school, you're in AR or when you go home, you plug in the VR. Or just maybe it attracts different types of people,

but I didn't know that. I didn't know that Microsoft. Did you guys know that Microsoft was building? Could you look up the name? I think theirs is actually called Made of Earth also. So I think Facebook is called Made of and then Microsoft is calling theirs Made of Earth, but they're both in this race to get to this place we're going to live, which also made me start to look at NFTs totally

different because just like a couple of months ago, we first talked about them. Oh, snap. I know exactly where you're going. I know. And by the way, Facebook has already said that they were going to integrate NFTs into their Mataverse. Of course. My saying that will, made-of-ers. I think it's a meta.

Metaverse? You know what, dude? That makes perfect sense, because you guys know that already, there's already people that will spend thousands of dollars on a rare Minecraft skin or, you know, acts in a particular move, the game, so now it makes sense. Now I can't really see the NFT thing.

Yes, if you live in this metaverse universe, if this is where you spend most of your time, well now, yeah, you are going to spend a lot of money on it. It's no different than the way we floss with watches, cars, designer clothes. Exactly. Today in real life, because if you spend now more of your time in the virtual world than you do in the real world, then why would I buy designer jeans in the real world? I would much rather buy them in this virtual world

where I spend more of my time. And you get clout. Yeah, and I interact with more people because people will know, they'll see it and they'll know, oh, you got that skin. That's got to be 10 grand at least for that thing. That's the diamond shield. So they'll see it and they'll know, oh, you got that skin. Yeah. That's got to be 10 grand, at least for that thing. The diamond shield. So now I see it.

You know what I'm saying? The whole NFT thing I thought was so weird and ridiculous and I couldn't wrap my brain around, like, why would someone like you want, like, we're out of the painting thing, right? Like, why the fuck do I want a painting, a digital painting, painting that I'm gonna do another, but if you live in a digital world,

and you have a digital house, and your friends hang out in your digital house, you now have this crazy, rare painting, digital painting in your virtual house, where now it matters. Now when people come over to hang out in your virtual house, you go over there. Do you think that current brick and mortar businesses

and manufacturers will get into it? Like for example, would BMW get into creating NFT cars? Of course. This is why I've always speculated that artists and creative people, there's like this massive, there's gonna be a massive boom and need for that of like, being able to create all these things for those types of worlds, right? So you need to be able to have like, so it's more, it's gonna be more beneficial

to have the plans and designs for houses or whatever. Like we were talking about like 3D printing too. So it's like, it's all kind of moving in that direction in terms of like you being able to actually, you know, come up with these designs, create and sell those designs versus actually like producing it. Okay. So I want to get, and I want to go to what you were bringing up about Zillow, but before

we do, because this reminds me of something that's tied very close to this. Okay. So we've heard the theories that maybe we live in an artificial reality. Yeah. And that when life gets intelligent enough, the tendency is to create virtual realities, eventually becoming so advanced that people within. It's indistinguishable.

It's indistinguishable, and maybe this is why things are the way are, whatever. Simulation theory. Yeah, so that's one theory. And then there's a couple other things that are really interesting. So are you guys familiar with in physics, the double slit experiment?

Have you heard of that? Yes, I've shown you guys before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk about this. So what they'll do is they'll fire particles, electrons or protons, I believe, through something that has two slits. So it can only travel through the two slits

or it gets bounced off. And when it travels through, they notice a particular pattern coming out and emerging out the other end. But when they observe to see which slit the particles are traveling through, the pattern changes completely. It's either a wave or it's particles or it like changes the whole property.

So in other words, just to just explain what you look at. So in other words, what are we figuring out there? What they're trying to see is, okay, why is it creating the strange pattern on the other end? We need to see what's happening which slit are these particles going through so we're gonna observe This this these slits to see what's happening But then as soon as they observe it the pattern changes and it behaves in a very predictable manner So this is called the observer effect and it's a very strange phenomena in quantum physics and it's one of the many scientists believe that this is one of the reasons why we can't

make, you know, Newton's theory of relativity and Newton, what's called Newtonian physics, right? Which is like physics of this world. Why it doesn't seem to match up with quantum physics, which they don't seem to make any sense. Quantum physics is very strange, behave completely different. And so, and there's this observer effect that they constantly they can test and like, what the hell does the observer have to do with any of this? So that the quantum physics says that all of reality exists in what's called superposition. So it's everything all at once. And it only collapses into what we observe

when we're observing it. So the observer has some kind of an influence over this. So this team of scientists came together and came up with this theory and they said that, and other scientists have said this before as well, that consciousness is intricately connected to reality. And without consciousness, reality would not exist, and that it's a network of observers

that creates reality. Without that, then there really isn't this reality that we... If this network is actually also describing quantum entanglement, right? So like something you do affects like this network of like monsters. Based off of that theory,

we then would be able to potentially create consciousness in AI. Right? Well, so that's if that's the formula that creates consciousness, then we should be able to actually program that. That's it. Well, that's that's another. There's by the way, I listened to like the leading guy that we went, I went down this

rabbit hole. So I'm just great. You're going in this direction because I just finished watching Patrick Bet David interview. And the guy's name is going to slip me, but Bill Gates, Elon Musk, like, this is the dude, like, this is who they have read all his stuff. I can't, he's got a number one selling book on, on, on, on AI. And they had an interview and he was talking all about this. It wasn't a Ray Kurzweil, was it?

No, maybe tell you can look you can look up Patrick Bed David, AI interview and it'll pop him up. Bald guy glasses. But really interesting because he said some stuff, no, that's neither one of them. He was talking about the capabilities that, I mean, it's kind of limitless. It seems so crazy for us right now, but it's kind of limitless what we can potentially program it, everything down to feelings and consciousness. Well, so that's a different question, right? The other, that question is what is consciousness,

but we, which we still can't define, but forget that for a second. I think we can all agree that humans are consciousness or we have some kind of consciousness, and it's our collective observation that's creating our reality Okay, so what is this how does this tie to this meta universe that we're talking about? Okay, think of it this way You're playing

Grand Theft Auto right You're walking through a neighborhood As the character that you're playing the avatar that you're playing is walking through the neighborhood The video game is creating the reality as you're moving through. But if you're not moving through the reality, if you're not moving through as a character, all of that is in the game as a potential. It only appears, in other words,

you're walking through Minecraft, the tree appears over here. It's only because you're walking through the video game with your avatar. If you're not doing anything, that's, it just, it hasn't revealed itself. It hasn't been, it really hasn't necessarily been created. It's in the game in this kind of potential.

Does that make sense? So if you think of it that way, it's kind of like we're in a game, right? Where it's our observation that creates that reality. Otherwise, it's like, and then here taking a step further, I know this is totally a weird conversation. You should have been a terror. I wish you would have told me we're going here.

I would have totally smoked. No, I know, I'm gonna stop in just a second. But before we lose everybody out. I was the fun stuff for me. So the big bang, right? The scientists agree that, oh, there was a big bang at one point, all of the matter of the universe was in this one infinitely small point

and then it exploded and expanded and it's expanding faster and faster and blah, blah. What if that's when the game got turned on? That's when the switch went on. Boom, and you had this explosion of matter and then consciousness created this, you're just going to be trying. You didn't look like, kind of what it looks like.

If we shut off our off road, what it looks like, it goes, boom, it goes down to this little tiny. It does, if you shut one of these screens off, it's exactly what it does. It goes, boom, and it dissolves into this tiny little point. And it trust me out, because we're all basically light particles. Yeah. At the end of the day.

I mean, this ship, it's a melt to my mind to think about. Well, it's what's crazy to me is I know that we have been on an off air talking about this whole plugged in, unplugged worlds that are coming and everything like that. And it feels like all of a sudden we just took 10 steps forward out of nowhere. It's happening faster. I know.

Really quick, all of a sudden. It's got a compound. Yeah, it seemed kind of ridiculous talking about it five years ago. And now you're talking about two companies. Well, if you really want to melt your brain, if real life existed, like, you know, trillions of years ago and then created artificial universes and then those artificial universes became self-aware and created.

We literally could be in a billion layers deep of a fucking you know fake universe or simulation or whatever you want to call it. Universe is creating the universe. So you're just like pixelated you know like when it just first happened. Yeah. Who knows. Alright so his name was the guy you were talking about Nick Bostrom. Is that yeah?

Yeah, yeah. Supposedly is like the authority on artificial intelligence. Like he's like the main, the main dude. I'm afraid that we're going to create what we think is consciousness. And it's not and it's just going to create a monster. You know what I mean? Well, here we think it is. You should listen to that interview because it is, it's not scary because he, he,

he has a very optimistic view of what he hopes, but he, we think that you should listen to that interview because it is, it's not scary because he, he, he has a very optimistic view of what, where he hopes, but he doesn't deny that, you know, it's all about how we program this shit. And, you know, if China's programming it, we're programming it, we, we got to hope that we're all running by the same moral code. You know, and that's kind of the really the AI arms race, which by the way people don't know this There's another arm race that's already started There's the the hypersonic missile arm race. You know China launched that hypersonic mission travel around the globe Surprised us now we're doing our own now. They're talking about having satellite Exploding capabilities where they can fire something at a satellite It'll blow up or destroy the inside of the satellite to make it look like a mistake, and they could just totally disrupt communication.

And then Taiwan came out with their first exoskeleton for their military, which is basically – Wow. – Yeah, makes you stronger. – I've seen them run faster. – I've sucked. – This is pretty cool. – It's all going down. – That's why I get into science fiction.

I'm telling you, it's been prepping humanity to see what the potential lies. And we're already getting into the potential of it all. It'd be cool to see a montage of all the futuristic movies that have been happening since the 70s and 80s. Yeah, and all the ones that actually still have a freaking hoverboard. Yeah. Come on.

Is that the one you're waiting on? Yeah, it is. It's good. It's good good one. The waning or food that rehydrates. Like every sci-fi movie in the last 50 or 60s was like a capsule that you placed in. You have a little cube and then it just turns into turkeys. Yeah, turkeys in it.

All right, so Zillow, you wanted to talk about Zillow. Oh, what's the deal with that? Well, a couple of things. One, I mean, I'm, I feel a little ashamed and embarrassed that I didn't even know of this category, they called Ibuyers, right? So I've heard that term, I'd be watching a video on YouTube

or reading an article and they reference it and I never dug into exactly what an Ibuyer is. And the examples would be like Open door red fin Zillow and it's these these these massive companies that are Buying real estate like really really fast in like so save like 5,000 properties a month Yeah, well date so Zillow just did 8,000 in a quarter So that's why when you this big news came out of them getting rid of 7,000 was such a big deal, is because they're buying 8,000 a quarter with a goal to get up to 5,000. But what I find interesting is like, you know, at what point can they actually

start to manipulate the real estate market the same way that we manipulate stocks with people buying? I smell legislation coming. That's what I smell. Because imagine if 70% of the rental properties in America are owned by two owners, Zillow and Redfin. Well, so check this out right now. This is why this is interesting to me right now. Doug, maybe you can pull up the ticker right now on both Redfin and Zillow and even Open Door. All three of those, because in the last three days,

they are dropping hard like on the stock market. So their stock is losing, I think 15%, 10%, and like 9%. Because they sold it losses. Well, I mean, all of them, Redfin is. So something, it's, oh wow, it's down again. Oh no, 23%. Wow.

Right now. Wow. You know what, though, that's actually a damn good buy. 65 for a share, it's not. Well, I'm waiting, so I'm waiting for it to keep going So it shows me down 4% they're at 48 right now is it the recording? Is that so you just had up before that? Yeah, yeah bring it back up to that and show me the the graph for the the court the last week So we can I can see that show the guys like the I mean there's the there's what is that?

That's a day. It's just a day dude look at a fight. Look at the oh, yeah That's a five day. It just fell off a cliff after that. And they're all kind of falling off right now. Still, I find that really interesting that you have these companies that have this much buying power in real estate, and then they're selling that off. Now part of the reason why they did that big sell off too

was boy, the room for air in this algorithm was ridiculously crazy. Like it was, they buy targeting a 3% to 6% tiny margin. So that's what the algorithm is built on. And they have these, what they look for is houses and areas of towns that are growing, which is a basic kind of strategy for buying real estate. And they don't want it to be perfect, but they want the homes to be really nice.

And all it really needs is quick facelift, like paint, floors, and then flip, and then flip and make three to six percent of it. Because what they're doing is they're, the algorithms based off of what the trend of where the market's going. And they're getting that on a daily basis.

You know the problem with that is it's too logical. It is. Yeah, because there's so much human. And there's a motion involved in buying real estate. And so, but this algorithm is based off of that. And it was just aggressively buying at that. And then it all it took was a slight plateau. And then them overbiting aggressively to get that to make it not worth it.

Wow. So I mean, if you think about three to 6% profit margin doesn't sound like much, but property is so expensive and you're buying 5,000 units, 3% of that is millions and millions of dollars. Yeah, yeah. So potentially could be massive. It's really, and what's happening is you have,

and you have like obviously brokers and real estate agents are not fans of, I mean, obviously if you work with them, you're probably a fan of Redfin or Zill or one of them, but if you're a private broker, real estate agent, because the ultimate goal and what they're trying to do with all these algorithms and they're trying to basically cut out the middleman. You know, why have a real estate agent anymore? If we can have all this stuff to, imagine if you could get on to Zillow,

and it could show you break down the last 20 years of, which has a lot of this stuff already, like where the house was, where it's going, what it predicted, is it, you know how, you've ever seen that, what is it, car gurus, it tells you if it's a good deal or bad deal, and it's green or red, or it's orange,

if it's just like an okay deal. Like, imagine if it was that sophisticated that, you know, I don't even need to go look at the property. I can, all this stuff gets it informs me right away. I can buy it all digital week and all you do. That's how we buy homes online. You're not even there in person. So you could do it all through, you know, docuSign.

You know what, this is an interesting conversation because I think in lots of markets, they've tried to eliminate the human sales person. I think in some cases it works, in other cases, I think they underestimate the value of the human. Well, to the point you just brought up, because emotions are involved. And we talked about fitness.

This happened in fitness. Twenty-Far fitness did this. This was one of the, this was the beginning of their downfall was that they exactly said that, by the way. I was did this. This is one of the, this is the beginning of their downfall, was that they exactly said that, by the way. I was in the meeting when they brought that up and they literally said, we have the most gyms, we have great equipment, we're open 24 hours.

All we need to do is have the best prices and we'll crush everybody and it would be as easy as having a menu, someone walks in, points out what they want and they sign up. And me as a general manager who understood, nobody's buying my gym for the gym. They're buying it for us. I know that.

I've worked in shitty gyms and crushed, and I've seen great gyms fail because of the team and the staff. And remember thinking, this is a bad idea. You guys don't realize the value of sales. That's what happens when people at such a high level are making the decisions that are purely looking at numbers where someone like you or I who was down in the trenches doing it, I could easily go like, well, yesterday,

we sold 10 deals and I know for a fact, seven of those went and got sold, had I not got involved in it and convinced that person. And talked about the dream and whatever. So you make them do the paint the picture, yeah. Yeah, now in other cases, it works, right? Electronics, like you want to buy a phone, you know, 10 people could sell an iPhone,

they're all the same, well, I'm going to get the best price, right? With cars, it did disrupt the market, but have car salesmen disappeared? No, because I think in some cases, people want to talk to a salesperson and understand what's going on. How's is a way more emotional than that. Oh, yeah, way more emotional. There's a lot more involved than just looking at it. And so I wonder how this is actually going to kind of pan out. But it is really interesting to me that I wonder why Zillow wouldn't buy a bunch of properties and then short-term rent them. That's their business. Why wouldn't they go? Is that because they'll be cannibalizing their own people or competing against the people that make their business? First of all, I don't know if

Zillow is not involved in short-term rentals. I don't know that for a fact. I don't know if about them to know if they are in that market also. I mean, I think they're... I would require a lot more, I guess, personnel and management, right? Yeah. I mean, to be interesting, I mean, it's, I'm now intrigued enough

that I want to find the right person to interview because I'd love to ask a lot of the questions about what their strategy is. By the way, I've seen the strategy. Well, so that's new to me. Like, I've now learned that one of the main strategies by these these companies is pretty much to cut out the other the think about how much money is there to by the way real estate agent is 3% 3% on the front and back end. So if you could

just cut out one of them right if you just cut out one of them you got 3% on every single way competitive. Yeah. Okay, so here's my question for for, Adam, because this is something really deep into, as a real estate investor, an individual, this sounds like this is a good thing, because now you're buying properties yourself, trying to build your own wealth and security, and now you see these big players going to the markets, trying to buy up properties. Does that mean that now the demand is higher and it's gonna increase property values more? Well, it could be good and bad, right?

So it's okay, my concern with companies like this, they're that massive with that much power, is their ability to manipulate the market and just send a false signal. So yeah, it could be good because it's gonna drive up purchases and more and drive the price up. And obviously if you are an investor and you own properties, there's a good, there's actually a good side of inflation right of all that stuff going up.

But it's not good if it's being manipulated intentionally where, you know, if you think those houses off the market or like what's about to happen with the whole show? Also, putting 7,000 houses on the market now mind you That's probably it's dispersed over I think it was like four or five states and probably different cities and so it's obviously if there's just 10 or 20 houses in all these little cities probably not gonna hurt them are but imagine if like one of these companies had 500 and like okay, uh boys guy to hold one of it was the fastest growing it grew the most And like, okay, a boy's got a hoe. One of the, it was the fastest growing. They grew the most equity over the last two years, okay?

More than anywhere else, like 34%. So a boy's got a hoe is number one in the country. Imagine if Zillow, Redfin, Open Door, owned 5,000 of the houses in a boy's got a hoe. Of the, let's say I don't know how many houses are in there, 50,000 or a guy, I don't have no idea, but they just say they own a 10%. Yeah,% of it and then all of a sudden they decide together We're gonna sell it all they can literally just die but dive bomb that market temporarily

Then turn around and go back and buy it and go back and buy again So I'm really put on this with the stock market before all the time rules against it So and and I'm sure I'll get messages So I look forward to hearing from someone who is gonna school me on this because I don't know if there's already laws in place that don't allow these guys to do this because I can, if you, if you're,

if Zillow's goal is to get up to 5,000 properties a month. Oh yeah, I wonder if it's very state-to-state, you know, in terms of legislation. Oh, okay, I'll take it to a national security potential. Now you have a private American company like Zilla. Let's say they build up their portfolio to own 500,000 properties and China or another foreign country. One that does not align with our values, for example,

says, all by Zilla, they immediately own half a million properties in the United States. I would say that's it, yeah. Right, I mean, now that's very interesting. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's a good or bad thing or what that would mean necessarily, but I could see the political ramifications of that,

you know, because you saw what happened with TikTok and how that got political because you were owned by China. Yeah, now it's really interesting. Well, speaking of like real estate talk, I shared a tweet from Robert Kiyosaki this morning that I thought was interesting. We've talked a little bit about this,

but he actually dropped some stats. I thought that we're interested. Listen to this stat, 77% of people who inherit family wealth lose it in less than three years. Oh, well, 77% dude. You know what that flies in the face of? 80% people who inherit wealth lose it within three years. By the way, you know what that flies in the face of? It's also 80% of millionaires today will self-made.

Eight at a 10 millionaires right now are self-made. 77% of people who inherit money lose it within three years. It's almost like, doesn't matter. That flies in the face of the narrative that, oh, successful people, wealthy people, it's because mom and dad gave them money and they didn't earn enough. They just immediately guaranteed success.

Yeah, no, it doesn't, it doesn't work that well. I thought that was really like, 65% of all professional athletes end up going bankrupt five years after retirement. Well, okay, you know what's funny? So I'm sure some people are disagreeing with what I said. If we just take that and use an analogy related to fitness, if I snap my fingers right now and made everybody in America

lean and fit, what percentage of them would be able to maintain? Well, so I had a really healthy debate with one of our followers about this. And one of the things that I argued was, and I said, I don't know the answer, right? But would I be here today if I didn't go through all the shit that I had to go through? Right. There's a part of me that argues that that is what got me here was that I had so much I had to overcome that it built this resiliency in me as a young child that later on became an adult that viewed the world differently versus if I was born into a family with way more privilege, would it actually

be an advantage? And at face value, we all want to say, of course it would be, you could go to greater schools and you have greater connections and like, okay, but what about the, what it does for my character? You know, if I got all those things, maybe I become a spoiled little bitch who thinks that he deserves everything in his entitled. And I don't even value any of it in front of you. Yeah, I have no work ethic. You know what I'm saying?

I have no resilience. I fail and I cry and I can't get back up. You know what it is, is you have this combination of genetics and this combination of your nature, which is the stuff around you, I'm excuse me, nurture, which is your life around you. And it's the right mix. Like, maybe your genes are the kind of genetics that make you, that diversity drives you

to become great. Sure. And so in that particular scenario, that's what made you do really well. And in another scenario, not so much. So it's the combination. Well, will we ever know the answer? No, it's impossible. How could you possibly know what the right combination is?

That would produce success. Well, this is why I really love that conversation with Jewel because of her upbringing and being severely abused and beaten and then homeless and all these insane adversity, she's facing and then just the mindset taking her into positions and opportunities that then all of a sudden now has this incredible success

that she's able to kind of navigate and figure out how to not completely blow it because of all of these hurdles and things that you build that strength and muscle to be able to navigate through. I do get why people feel the opposite though, because I, at a time in my life, I did. I was on the other side of that. Like, when I was in my early 20s, I was resentful.

I was angry at my parents because of the childhood that I had. That didn't get flipped around until I was 30, almost 30. Did I start to look at it from a different lens and go like, you know what? I'm actually really glad that all these crazy things happened to me as a kid growing up because there's so many things now that I've experienced in my 20s

and now going into my 30s that had I not gone through that adversity as a kid, I probably would have viewed these things differently and who knows that might have knocked me down and out into depression, and I wouldn't be able to get back up whereas I faced it differently. And so then I began to look at it different.

So I have a feeling that a lot of that narrative comes from immaturity. Doesn't matter how old you are, you could be older and still immature, just immaturity and not really knowing the value of what potential you're going to be. Or not knowing how that varies from person to person. So, you bring up a great point,

maybe part of my genetics that played in my favor, but maybe if it was, maybe somebody else's genetics that is just all it takes to throw them in a depression and then they never get out of it. I don't know, it is an interesting question. I mean, I'm the product of poor, uneducated immigrants. And they would, would I be who I am if it wasn't from, I mean, and look, here's, I remember getting argument with a friend of mine who argued about how, you know,

I had everything given to me type of deal. I'm like, you had, you, you had more than I did getting started. And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, how many years or decades has your family been in this country? So my parents came here with nothing, had no education. The only advantage they had is they knew the opportunity. So they didn't squander it.

They knew what they could potentially build and create here. And so who knows what the answer? But I tell you this, I'll bet this money all day long, regardless of your potential, if you work hard and you have a growth mindset, you are more likely to reach your higher potential. I think you are the lower potential. Regardless of where you're at. I'll tell you what you're at. If you just have an optimistic mindset versus a pessimistic mindset, you know, growth mindset. Whether you think you can or can't, you're probably right.

Like I take personal responsibility, I'll work hard, oh this shitty, but let me keep going, like whatever you're, even look at it this way, again I'll take it back to fitness. Let's say your genetic potential is your max bench press is 200 pounds and your minimum is that you'll never be able to bench press over 10 pounds. Hard work, effort, personal responsibility, consistency,

you're more likely to get to 200 and less likely to hit that, you know, 10 pounds. Same thing with anything. So maybe your max potential is that you'll make six figures in your life because you're now. Well, this is the danger. You're more likely to reach it with those habits. This is the dangers of the conversation around inequality. I mean, it's whether it's, it is true. There's plenty of situations in this world where it's, we're unequal, it's unfair for this person or that person. But that becoming such a mainstream narrative,

I think has more negative effect than that's positive. That's great. People get this. People that are activists around it are just like, oh, we need to create more awareness around it. I said, do you, is there anybody on this earth that doesn't think that there's people

that have more advantages than other people? And then us always talking about it Are we not training the generation that's coming up to just like them either fall there either you either push You're either an oppressor or you're a victim It's like you that's one or the other and which one are you and like that becomes like this conversation with even these young kids coming up And is that it is that a smart or dangerous mindset to be putting them in that? I would never, let me put this one. It's not empowering, it actually takes away your power.

As a trainer, trying to help people create a lifelong good relationship with exercise and nutrition, the worst possible thing I could ever do is sit there and talk about the limitations of someone's genetics and how they'll never be able to accomplish certain things just because, you know, your parents were both overweight, you don't got the great bone structure, you know, you can't start it late.

I never, you're not very strong. I don't care what that is. I don't care. Yeah, that's great. But you can't control that. Here's what we can control. And I found success that way. The other way I would have found failure

every single time with my client. So it applies, in my opinion, it applies to everything. I think it's a terrible idea to focus on those uncontrollables and rather focus on the things you can control. A lot of it has to do with the stuff you have within your own power, whatever that is. Which I, yeah. Hey look, real quick, before we get to the rest of the show,

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Head over to drinkaulipop.com forward slash mine pump and then use the code mine pump for 20% off. That's it. All right, enjoy the rest of the show. Our first question is from Nicholas Wells. Is there an optimal body fat percentage for building muscle? 11.2, 3.5, that's the percentage. That's a kind of an interesting question.

It is, you know, I can tell you that I don't think there's gonna be a number specific from person to person, but I can say this that being too lean has been shown to inhibit muscle growth and being too over fat can shown to inhibit muscle growth and being too overfat can do the same thing. Part of it has to do with the hormonal effects. For example, when men start to get into the single-digit body fat percentages,

you tend to see testosterone levels dropping, you tend to see growth hormone levels, sometimes having issues. Andrew Jim receptor density starts to go down a little bit when their body fat percentage is too high, same thing. So, okay, what are those numbers? Personally, for me, my best muscle building body fat percentage tends to be above 10% and below maybe 14%.

When I go above 14%, I start to get kind of negative returns where I'm just gaining more body fat than muscle. Under 10% really hard for me to build muscle and maintain that lean body fat percentage, unless I'm allowing my body fat percentage to go up. Yeah, that is gonna say that this depends, right, on how we're talking about this because the most anabolic I have ever felt

is after cutting down to 3% and then going back the other direction. Yeah, but you're letting your body fat climb right? So, I mean, but imagine maintaining is there an optimal body fat percentage for building muscle? Like, oh yeah.

So if I was trying not to be bigger, more body fat than 3%, then yeah, you're right. But if I cut all the way down to 3%, and then I reversed into a bulk from there, and just say, I'm about it going and honestly this is how I would do it after a show and I would get down to that kind of 3% range or so. You ever take, I would allow myself to go all the way back up to about 9% 10% and I was like I was on the gain train all the way until I started to see myself reaching that 9% or so and then I would back off because I would say somewhere in that 9% range I felt the most primed for for building muscle. Yeah, so but you know again, I think there's tremendous value in

cutting down and getting lean and then reversing. Maybe not as extreme as you did it, right? So I want to be I also want to caution the audience for a bunch of dudes that are like, oh, I got to get down to 3% or a whole, because that is a whole, getting below, I'd say 8% body fat for the average guy, there's a whole different ball game. You get below 5% body fat and you're playing now

in a whole nother universe in terms of how you feel, hormones, how they respond your sleep It's not great So yeah, don't don't cut down to 3% to try to reverse out. Yeah, no, I'm not by no means. This is not a Recommend with obviously this is not a overall health type of question This is you know, where do I feel that the optimal body fat percentage is and I don't know I don't know if there's an exact percentage or it's more about where you are in your training.

I think more of that, like I was thinking I'm trying to speculate, even I've had clients that came in way over weight and just maintaining whatever calorie I'm out there at, but now adding in resistance training, had a dramatic shift, you know, in terms of like them, and their potential for building muscle, but it makes a good point in terms of like, being at your leanest and now introducing, maybe you're a little more sensitive to those calories and sort of re-prioritizing those calories

into muscle building, so. Yeah, I feel like you're primed to be anabolic, because your body's wanting to add, and then you feed it the way you want, but to your point about, and feel like you're primed to be anabolic because your body is wanting to add and then you feed it the way you want. Yeah. But to your point about, and I think you're probably more right on where this, this, this, this question is coming from because I get a lot of people who are somewhere between 13 and 20% body fat and their question is should I cut first or should I bulk? And the answer for me is if you're north of 15% the I think you mentioned this right? That's where your testosterone levels tend to dip after that. Definitely after 20% you start

to notice that after 15. Yeah, I mean 15 you'll see it definitely after 20. Yeah, in women it's like 30. So in that case if you're somebody who's just getting star on your teen and you're like okay I'm 18 19% body fat is it more advantageous for me to try and bulk and build muscle from here? Or is it better for me to lean down a little bit then I would probably suggest leaning out a little bit. But it depends on their metabolism. Exactly. That's the big thing is that if I get you, say you're at 18 to 20% body fat, but you're

and you're okay, let's say let's use it a male and say, I think this is a guy who's asking his question. So let's say you're 220 pounds, 19% body fat, and you want to know what you should do here. But you're only eating, okay, there's 228 calories below. Yeah, 2,000 to 2,200 calories. I don't want to cut you. Yeah, I don't want you to lean out right now.

I want to build. So even though it might be more advantageous to be 13% body fat trying to build muscle because your body is in a better position to build more muscle. Your metabolism isn't in the most optimal position and I care about that first before I try to attack the next. Now all things being equal because I think what you're, if you're obviously if you're watching this, you realize that there's a lot context.

There's a lot of context that matters and it depends on the individual. And I know people hate it when we answer that way, but that's just the way it is, whenever you're working with individuals, you have to look at the whole picture. But all things being equal, okay? Everything's healthy, they're not a newbie with resistance training necessarily,

so forget the stimulus, the workout's good, good sleep. And all things being equal, I think I could say, probably for men, maybe nine to 15% is probably a good body fat percentage for building muscle. And for women, it's probably, probably 20 to maybe 27% or something like that. I think for women, when you start to go below 20%, and the leaner you get, then you start to see some kind of negative effects on hormones and with men, get, then you start to see some kind of negative effects on hormones and with men, that can happen after going below 9%, and then going above 15%. Remember fat is also hormone sensitive, and it can increase the way that your body responds to estrogen.

It can cause increased cytokines or inflammatory markers. That goes too much of it's not good. Not enough of it's not good. Exactly. 9 to 15. And now what determines if it's nine or 15? Well, genetics, probably, right? So, like Adam and I tend to be more on the ectomorph side.

Being leaner was easier for me than being heavy. So, I'm like you around 10, 11%, you know, it's probably a good body fat percentage on the high end, maybe 14%. Justin might be a little higher, he's a little bit more on the endomorph maybe 14%. Justin might be a little higher. He's a little bit more on the endomorph side, right? So, yeah. So, but you gain. Well, I'll tell you what, think of it this way. If I, 9% for me, I could build really well. I bet for you, you probably

wouldn't feel very good walking around 9% the same way. No, it's still terrible. It's like death. Right. So, there's a bit of a range here, but the key is not too low, not too high, is probably best. So ultimately, what does this mean? Healthy. That's really what it boils down to. Well, and that's why the answer that I gave is that

we need to get you in a healthy place, metabolism-wise, before I'm even concerned about building muscle or burning fat. So regardless of what body fat percentage you're at, and the range you gave, I think is a very fair, generic range that I think is true. But just because you're outside of that range, doesn't this, I mean, I would want you to cut first,

depending on what Justin was talking about, your calorie intake. If you are a 220 pound man, and you're only eating 2,000 calories, yeah, I don't care what body fat percentage are. Exactly. We're gonna try and get that to speed up. Yeah, you could be 40% body fat.

And I don't want technically to cut you right away. I want to address your metabolism first, which we mean we're gonna be focused on building strength, building muscle, and slowly increasing calories before we decide to get you down into that optimal place that you were talking about. Next question is from Tax-Free Mitt.

What advice do you have for someone who tends to hop between training programs and diet plans? I get excited to start something new, but tend to quickly get fixated on what I want to do next. Yeah, you're falling in love with the feeling of excitement and motivation. Yeah, the entertainment of it.

Yeah, and here's a deal. I understand, okay, when I feel motivated and excited, it's one of my favorite feelings. Nothing's hard, everything's easy. I got all the energy in the world to do all the stuff that I need to do. I've never had to get a really convinced client to work out when they were motivated.

It just happened. I've never had to convince a client to eat right when they were motivated. It was when that feeling went away that we start to see some of the challenges. So the problem here with the person asking this question is, you're so in love with the excitement and motivation that when that fades, well, that's it. What do I do next? Because now that's gone.

In my training career, what this usually look like was a person that would sign up for a marathon and then a triathlon and then obstacle course race. And then it's like they always had to sign up for something in order to keep themselves working out. And that was just a losing strategy at some point. So what you need to do is develop the skill of discipline and consistency and trust the process.

Now what does that mean? That means that when you follow a program, let's say you follow maps and a ball, right? It maps and a ball is broken down into three phases. I can guarantee you that almost everybody who follows maps and a ball is gonna like one of the phases over the others. Okay, it's just the way it is. I love phase one.

I like the heavy training. I like the low reps, right? Phase three with the supersets and the faster pace. That's my least favorite. But if I follow the program, I go all the way through. I trust the process, because I know the value that it provide. And ultimately, gives me much better results doing that.

So, I mean, I have a little challenge to that. You necessarily don't have to. You could still continue to do this way. But it really is the difference between exercising and training. If you are going to the gym and you're bouncing from routine to routine and you're trying different stuff out all the time and you seek this novelty every time you go to the gym

and you need that for motivation to get you in the gym and exercise, then fine. And if you're content with where your physique is at, where your strength is at, there's nothing wrong with you exercising like this. But if you have goals in mind and you're trying to improve strength, you're trying to build muscle, you're trying to change your body composition, then you want to follow a training routine, you want to follow a program and you want to stick with it, or else you are, you're just

burning calories, you're just burning calories, stimulating muscle. I guess that would's better than nothing. Right, with no rhyme or reason. And there's, and again, if this person is in a place where they are content with their performance, their health, their strength, their aesthetics, if they're happy with all that, then it's actually not that big of a deal.

If this is what gets you, trying a new program out every fucking week is what gets you to go to the gym, then by all means, does it, but you have to understand that you're not being the most effective by doing it. And you know what the problem is, is that they don't tend to, what this tends to lead to in my experience is not every week I'm trying something different. It's, I try something different, try something different, try something different. Nothing excites me. I stop. Yeah. And it's on, off, on, off.

It rarely looks like something new every single week. Usually it starts that way and then it becomes like nothing is sparking this and me. Now I'm going to stop completely. Yeah. And I guess sort of like to both your ideas, like it's obviously very important for you to be specific at what you're doing in terms of training towards a goal. And so if that's in mind, and that's sort of your cornerstone that you come back to,

there's plenty of room for you to interrupt that with novelty and adding in a new type of a program to be entertained by and just keep it fresh and keep it going. And this is something that I do occasionally. And this is why I got into unconventional tools or methods or learning something that I could then adopt and then incorporate into my meat and potatoes program, so it's not so stale, but at the same time, this is what's moving the needle. And so for me, I have to learn how to just be disciplined to come back to that continuously if this is where I want to take my progress

and where I want to take my body. So yeah, to Adam's point of just exercising, yeah, there is room for that. If you're talking just longevity and staying healthy and enjoying just the overall activity and movement, but being specific and having goals and trying to get somewhere you really do need to narrow it down. Well, that's how I would, if this was a client of mine

and they came to me with this problem, that would be my follow-up question. Well, do you want to change anything about your body? Are you happy where your strength is? Are you happy where your body fat percentages? Are you happy where your performance and strength is? And they said, yeah, I just like to, cool, keep doing your thing, it's not a big deal.

But if you go, well, I would like to lean out a little bit more and I would like to be cool. Keep doing your thing. It's not a big deal. But if you go, well, I would like to lean out a little bit more and I would like to be a little stronger or I would like to work on my shoulder. Okay, well, then we need a train. And then one of the things that, and this is where like tracking, I think, has its advantages, is, you know, when I'm trying to train and I'm really trying to achieve a goal,

I will focus in on like specific exercises in my program. So let's say you're following maps in a ball, I'll pick my squad to my overhead prowl, pick a couple movements, and I'm tracking them. And I wanna see week over week progression. And so that'll keep me excited about the next week. Oh man, this week I put five more pounds in the bar with my push press or my form got even better or my range of motion was even better on my squat. So I'll, I'll,

I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, need to do. Well, I think another good mentality with that is as you're going through your program, like you're noticing where the weakness is lie and where, you know, the areas you could address to improve in terms of like seeking out another type of a program. Instead of going towards something that draws you in based on entertainment or something that you really enjoy, like try and focus it a little bit more on maybe what's really difficult for you, to kind of like change your mindset around that in order to improve the overall.

Yeah, and again, this is all assuming that this person's always consistent. And again, my experience, this particular type of person isn't consistent long-term. They're consistent because they're doing all this variety and at some point they just stop. So yeah, if they were always consistent coming up with something new all the time, I guess that's

better than nothing, but again, in my experience that tends to not be the case. Next question is from BigTurk AZ. What's your take on intra workout food and drinks? What are the benefits to incorporating them and what are some good options? Sover it. Yeah, you know, you know we're intro, so intro workout food or drinks would be like those gel cubes that you'll see runners eating or a carbohydrate drink or...

Some of the companies love you. Yes, just the two. If you're doing, look, here's a deal. Studies will show there's value in them, but it's really specific, like long, ruling workouts. If I was, listen, if you're the average person who's trying to change body composition, which I would say is 80% to 90% of the people

listening to the podcast. And you're working out for a long time. It gives a shit about it. If you're a Spartan racer, ultra marathon runner, tremendous value, because that, you know, mile 17 or something, you're gonna be completely completely, you're going to hit a wall. If you don't refuel during that process, but the, it is, it's become so grossly populated or overpopulated in the bodybuilding community that I used to just laugh about it.

It was like the most comical thing I would see with my peers carrying around these bags and having to stop like midway to shove a bar in their mouth or drink their hyper blue color drink real quick. And it was just like, it's really, come on. It's, if you have, if you're gonna work out for like two hours or more and it's grueling and it's hard, you may have some value in doing this. Otherwise, not really.

I tell you what, if you wanna drink something during your workout that might actually make a difference, it's not carbohydrates and protein. It's electrolytes, sodium, for example. That actually will make a difference within the next 10 minutes. Carbohydrates, not really. If I've got plenty of stored glycogen,

and I'm not going to burn it in the hour workout that I'm going to do, which is probably not going to burn it, unless I'm really super low calorie, whatever hour workout that I'm gonna do, which is probably, I'm probably not gonna burn it, unless I'm really super low calorie, whatever. It's gonna take the most intense workout to burn all your glycogen store. No, it's not gonna do anything for you, and it's a total waste of time. If I'm doing a long ass, what I never do,

I never do workouts that are more than enough. Well, that's a good point, because there wasn't a point where, when I was training for the show, where I did get to where, sometimes I'd stay the gym for three hours But I would break it up with feedings. There you go. So I would train for an hour Pretty intensely then I take a break have some get some food in me drink some liquid liquid calories

Relax a little bit maybe walk the treadmill for 20 minutes of that They don't get back to do some more work in the gym like but that is like you're talking about the Like the highest level of training like I'm you're talking about the highest level of training. This is me at the professional level of trying to maintain this physique. If you're playing a game, if you're playing a basketball game, which can last quite a bit, or a football game, then it starts to make sense. But your normal workouts, not really. It really doesn't make that big of a difference kind of waste of time, unless again, you're doing

these super long workouts. But if you want to drink something in your workout, try electrolytes. That might make a difference, especially if you're low carb, or you don't need a lot of processed foods, I would say before and then during, element E is something that's hot and humid,

and you know, you're losing, it's a good example. Yeah. So you're sweating profusely, you know, that would be a good option. There are exceptions to the rule here. I know I'm coming out and just like, probably hammering a ton of people that are probably carrying their juggeron as they're listening to this right now.

So, I'm not trying to offend everybody, but it's just one of those things that, you know, when I got into that space and I saw how popular it was and I'd get clients and that's like, they, that were competing and they'd ask me like, It's the marketing it's really good. Yeah, they're like, oh, I dig, and like, no, don't even worry about that. There's so many other trends that are, think about, why more important? It's brilliant marketing because a supplement company knows

that if you work out, the one thing that you do consistently is work out. And one of the most effective ways to get your product consumed consistently is to tie it to something that someone does anyways. You ritualize it, right? So every morning when you wake up or right before bed or your workout, so what do they come up with?

At first it was post workout shake. That's the first time that they ever really tied it to workouts. And it was brilliant. It sold more protein powder, by the way, selling as a post workout supplement sold more protein powder than anything else anybody had ever done with protein powder. And then they got smart and said, why don't we sell a pre-workout supplement? And it exploded. What about during the workout? So they have pre-workout. And they hit it all now. And if they could come up with a reason to do quarter, half way through, three quarters of a wood.

Front half workout. Back half before you do these exercises, do this fluid. Lave day workout drink. No arm day. Don't be surprised if they get some shit that comes like that. Someone will figure it out. Yeah. Next question is from Yamazon,

how to get over the fear of failing when wanting to become an entrepreneur? Oh gosh. Yeah, you know what? You got to make, you got to be okay with failing. You actually have to make peace with it. Yeah. It's a true, it's a true, look, I'll tell you, I'll tell you your reps. I'll tell a story to the audience that this, this was one of the key moments when I knew

that I had chosen to work with the right partners with this particular business, Mind Pump. When we start, a lot of people don't know this, we've told this on older episodes, but when we started this podcast, we had a fifth founder. So what we have now is myself, Doug, Adam, and Justin, four of us. There was a fifth early on, it's our good friend Craig Capurso. And in the beginning, Craig had all the social media authority. He had all the audience. I mean, Adam had a small presence on Instagram,

but really Craig had most of the audience. And so the way we were going to get our start was with Craig was a great way to introduce us to a certain amount of people so that we could grow. And we all knew this. And he had other values, but this was, you know, a big thing. This was a big deal. And without that start, anybody who starts a business, especially through social media or new media knows how hard it could be to get that initial foothold. So that's how we started. Well, anyway, we recorded like 15 episodes. We had put in a lot of work.

This was early on, so for us, this was a big deal. Like now we can record a podcast and a big deal. But back then it was like, we all had jobs. We had to meet together at night. We'd record three episodes in a row. And we weren't good at it. So it was a big deal. So we did like 15 episodes, like months of work that we put together and we're ready to launch this thing and Craig last minute, one of his sponsors

listened to some of the episodes and early on we were pretty rough and a bit raw. And they said, yeah, I don't think you should be associated with this. It's a little controversial. And so he told us last minute, sorry guys, we can't release the episodes. I don't want to do it. And this was like a crushing blow. You got to imagine our foothold or initial introduction was going to be this person with the social media following. The rest of us combined had like nothing, almost nothing.

So it's like, what are we going to do? And I remember specifically, I was okay with that. Fine, we're gonna move forward anyway. And I literally thought I wasn't gonna have to get on the phone and motivate my other partners. I was prepared to get on the phone and do a speech. And it'd be like, that's it guys. Before I could open my mouth,

everybody else started their own speech about why we're gonna do this anyway. And that's when I realized I was working with the right people and what it boiled down to. all had made we'd all made peace with the with failing like we okay if we fail so what we're gonna try anyway. So that's the key the key isn't to ensure that you won't fail that's part of it the key is to be okay with the fact that you're gonna fail and guess what you probably will the first few times that you try to count on it and you gotta be it's like it's like not being okay

getting punched in the face if you're gonna get a boxing match. That's impossible. You have to be okay with getting punched in the face because that's part of boxing and part of business is failing. So you gotta be okay with it. Your Patrick Pet David has a really good book

called Your Next Five Moves. I really like it. And he's using the metaphor around what do they call grandmasters, the chess players, grandmasters, do you know what they call them or whatever. And I think it's, I think that some of the greatest in the world can see like 20 something plays ahead,

which is crazy to think about that, because seeing 20 plays ahead means that you're not only thinking about their possible move, but the move that you will do in response to that move. What's it saying? Yeah, that's so it's crazy. What's that series on Netflix?

Queens Gambit? Yeah, yeah, they kind of show that. Yeah, and so it just highlights the brilliance of being able to do that. Now his book is called the next five moves, because he's talking about, he relates that to business and why that's so important to be able to, many people can't see five moves later. And it's so important. And part, and so the piggyback offer, what you're saying is part of what making peace with failing isn't just being like, okay, I'm okay with failing, because sometimes people hear that and they're like, okay, well, that's it. You just decide it's okay to fail. I tried and I just not get away. That's that's that's only one part of it. Part of making

peace with failing is accepting what does it look like if we fail and then what your next move is in response to that failing. And then let's say you do that move and then that one fails, what's your next response to that? And say you do that move and that one fails and then what's your next response to that. So you're able to see four or five moves out

that all could possibly go the opposite way of what you want them to and how would you respond in that situation. And so, and then you make peace with that, that, okay, here's what I want to do. Now, there's a good chance x, y, and z might happen. If that happens, then what is the next move for me to do? Okay, well then I'm going to do this. Okay, let's say I do that, then what happens when that fails? Okay, and if you can see out five moves and four of those

moves basically being failure, there's a very good chance that you're going to get it by the fifth time and it's going to work itself out. And really a lot of the success that we, I mean, before I even met these guys or decided to do mind pump, I had this kind of vision around building a business. In fact. I had this kind of vision around Building a business in fact. I had another partner Paulo who was gonna be the guy who wrote because we all know that I can't write right so he was The he was the silver tongue kind of what I'd say Sal is in our group now and has the ability to write really well And I had this vision of you know writing these blogs that had all this value and then I'd get advertisers So I had this vision for a business that is nothing what we're doing now, but what we're done now is molded kind of from that idea.

And a lot of the things that we all thought we would be doing when we first started this does not look exactly the same way when we all sat in that room the first time. We had an idea, we had a vision, we knew that we could add tremendous value, and we weren't afraid if that way didn't work, cause then we would do this. And if that didn't work out, then we would do that. And everybody was excited about attempting to do that and not afraid of the potential failure.

Well, a couple of things, you know, to kind of, you know, piggyback off of that. Like, most of it, you know, in the time of doing all this is you realize that I started to turn those failures and the language of failure into education. And we've talked about this as being somewhat of an expensive education that you learn through all of this. I'm taking, you know, this potential failure,

I'm thinking about my next move, but what did I learn from that? Like what are all those lessons within that? all of this. I'm taking, you know, this potential failure, I'm thinking about my next move, but what did I learn from that? Like, what are all those lessons within that that now I can apply going forward and change and adjust so I don't make, I don't repeat, you know, those same mistakes? The other part of it is like, as you have this grand vision for where you want to go and where you want to take whatever idea or whatever it is that you want to do with it, you have to understand it's not going to be the same thing.

And to really just be comfortable with that, be flexible with that, and know that the only way for it to keep moving forward is to sort of flow with it and to be able to be open to changing adjusting and getting the feedback and, you know, moving and altering from those potential failures, or you get so many of those in front of you, they become reps, so you can anticipate your moves, you know, extend out further. So now you anticipate those failures and you adjust before they happen. Well, that's the real silver lining in the failure thing. I remember when I was like 20, I read this article that said that like the average billionaire failed like nine times

before they were successful. The 10th time was the success. And I remember reading that article in like my instant motivation from that was I needed to hurry up and go fail 10 times. Yeah. That was like, oh my god, I'm gonna stop after the fifth one. Right.

And so, and I remember thinking that, like, man, if that's the average billionaire, and at that point in my life, I don't know if I had aspirations to really truly be a billionaire, but of course, I was gonna shoot for the stars land on the moon type of deal, right? So it was like, okay, if this is what billionaires have to do

to become successful, and here I am at 20 years old, I've only attempted maybe one or two businesses by that time. I'm going, oh my God, well, I just got to keep trying these things that I believe in. And I need to get to that 10, because hopefully by the time I, on my way to 10, hopefully, all land one of them. And maybe if that's the average billionaire

who's way smarter than me, maybe I'll have to do 20. So in my mind, I'm gonna try and get to 20 failures and hopefully along the way of 20 failures, I'm gonna learn all these lessons that you're talking about and I'll be able to piece something together where I'll find success. Yeah, I think a big part of it too is just self belief.

Like knowing that no matter what happens, you're going to figure it out. Like I know I'm gonna be okay. No matter what happens to whatever I'm doing, no matter how bad it fails, I'm gonna be able to figure out a way to take care of myself and my family, get back on my feet, and then try again.

Now, imagine the confidence when you work with partners that feel that same way, right? Like, I know, something happens, we'll figure it out, and we'll take the next steps that are necessary. And that's part for me at least, that's part of what makes me not afraid of failing, because if something fails, I have self-belief knowing that, well, if that doesn't work, I know I can do something else.

I'm not going to be frozen and screwed totally or completely. I mean, I had a client that one time I asked him that question. I was eight, I was young. I was 18 or 19. And I asked him, what's the one piece of advice that you could give me for success? And he goes, you're asking me the wrong thing. And I said, what? And he goes, asking me how many times I've failed. I said, well, okay.

And by this time this guy was a self-made millionaire, he came from nothing, like high school dropout, like long story. And so I said, all right, well, how many times have he failed? He goes, I've gone bankrupt several times. And he explains each of the times he's gone bankrupt trying to build a business. And he said, you know, you just got to swing the bat, you're going to miss, but then you'll hit. And then you'll hit a home run. So you have to believe in yourself and know that at some point it's going to work out for you.

And it's more often than not, it's true. And even if you don't hit that big home run, you're probably better off than had you not tried. Well, you're definitely better off, especially if you learn to reframe failures as growth opportunities, because that's where growth happens. Growth does not happen in success. When you succeed at something, it's not comfortable. You're not comfortable. If it's right away. That's right. It's the failures were, so if you can become a person

who is, and I think you, Sal alluded to this first, was that, you know, being growth-minded, if you are pursuing growth ultimately over all things. So maybe I have this business idea of mind pump I wanna do, but ultimately I wanna just continue growing as a human as my main goal. Like that's what's great is that even within a failure towards mind pump,

I still succeed at growing because that failure is where growth happens. So if you can reframe the way you look at failures, you get more comfortable in that place. You know it's funny too about that. And I guarantee you guys the same way because we've been doing stuff like this for a long time. If you look back at momentary failures, I bet you can look back and say, gosh, I'm so happy that happened. Of course. I'm so glad that that situation, we've had them within our own business where we've worked with people and then had to not work with people

and it always has turned into something better later on. But I couldn't imagine if we got frozen in the failure of it, how we would have never reaped the benefits that could occur from failure like that. So that's a big one. It's not easy, by the way, I know it sounds like we're making sound like it's super easy. It's not even easy for us, you know, talking about it's easy, but it's still a challenge.

Nobody likes to fail, I'm gonna be honest with you. It's not like I'm sitting here saying, no, it's failing, it's awesome. They have way more fun winning. It sucks. It's a win. And it's hard, no, it's, it's awesome. You have way more fun winning. It sucks. It's a new win. And it's hard. This is all hindsight, but do I fear failing?

I don't like it. I don't fear it. It's a big difference between the two. Look, if you like our information, you want more great information. That's free from MindPump. Head over to mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on social media.

So Instagram, that's the social media platform we're usually on, and Justin could be found at Mind Pump Justin, you can find me at Mind Pump Sal and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance,

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