Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1693: The Amount of Muscle a Beginner Can Put on in a Year, the Value of Tricep Kickbacks, How to Get Stronger Without Increasing Calories & More

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer Pump Head questions about how much muscle an average genetics beginner can put on in a year assuming they’re following a MAPS program, whether tricep kickbacks are effective, if it is possible to get stronger while eating at maintenance, and why PT certification companies focus significantly on the idea of V02 max as the greatest indicator of health and for program training. The guys talk all things hormones. The signs of low testosterone, why we are facing an epidemic, and a space to go to talk about it and get help. (4:00) Opioid deaths are exploding! (21:57) Peter Attia on the best practices for longevity. (25:23) Fun Facts with Justin: The plagues strike Egypt. (29:23) Are we currently experiencing the worst times? (32:19) Is crypto here to stay? (39:38) Would you drink genetically engineered milk?! (41:53) Psilocybin and its use to treat depression. (47:30) #Quah question #1 – From your experience, how much muscle could an average genetics beginner put on in a year assuming they’re following a MAPS program? (1:02:01) #Quah question #2 – Are tricep kickbacks effective? (1:09:16) #Quah question #3 - Is it possible to get stronger while eating at maintenance? (1:16:31) #Quah question #4 – Why is it that some PT certification companies focus significantly on the idea of V02 max as the greatest indicator of health and tool for program training? (1:21:18) Related Links/Products Mentioned MAPS Fitness Products Black Friday Sale is LIVE! **Promo code “BLACKFRIDAY” at checkout** MP Hormones Mind Pump #1610: Testosterone… The Hormone That Divides Men & Women With Carole Hooven Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum How the pandemic helped spread fentanyl across the U.S. and drive opioid overdose deaths to a grim high | Opinion #1735 - Peter Attia - The Joe Rogan Experience | Podcast Plagues Strike Egypt: Sudden Floods, Then 4-Inch Scorpions Called Deathstalkers Crypto.com buys naming rights to Lakers’ Staples Center in a $700 million deal ‘Cow’s milk without cows’ start-up raises $13m in seed funding Mind Pump #1682: Bacteria For Muscle Gain, Fat Loss & Health Compass Pathways COMPASS Pathways granted fifth US patent for crystalline psilocybin Cybin - Psychedelics to Therapeutics™ Visit MASSZYMES by biOptimizers for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “MINDPUMP10” at checkout** Stop Working Out And Start Practicing – Mind Pump Blog Association of Grip Strength With Risk of All-Cause Mortality, Cardiovascular Diseases, and Cancer in Community-Dwelling Populations: A Meta-analysis of Prospective Cohort Studies NCI Certifications x Mind Pump Mind Pump x NCI Mentorship Coaching Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Carole Hooven (@hoovlet)  Twitter Peter Attia (@peterattiamd)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pumped. By the way, happy Thanksgiving everybody. If you're listening to this on Thanksgiving, it's because you value your fitness and health, and you consider us a part of your family. Except if you didn't give us any stuff in your turkey, so what the hell?

Anyway, today's episode, we answered people's fitness and health questions, but the way we open the episode is with an intro. So we talk about current events, talk about scientific studies, we mention our sponsors. After the 56 minute intro, we get to answering the fitness question.

So here's what went down in today's episode. We started out by talking about hormones, testosterone deficiencies in particular in men, and in women, there seems to be a declining trend. Definitely in men, we've noticed now for the last six decades or so. So we talk about the symptoms of low testosterone, what it means, and what testosterone replacement therapy means and who it's probably good for and not good for. By the way, if you have any questions

and you wanna talk to an actual doctor, we recommend regenerative and sport medicine. They're the place that we work with. And right now, you can actually go to Facebook forum and join for free for now. So it's free for now. It's mind-pump hormones. And on December 8th and December 20th,

we'll have Dr. Rand, Dr. Todd, and other doctors from regenerative and sport medicine answering all of your questions. By the way, it's that 5 p.m. Pacific on both those dates. They'll answer anybody's questions, or as many questions they can related to hormones and hormone replacement therapy. Then we talked about how opiate deaths

jumped 29% this year, just kind of crazy. Yeah, it's. Then we talked about Peter Etia and the interview he did on Joe Rogan, really cool conversation. Justin brought up some scary news from Egypt. Looks like they're still doing the plagues over there. Yeah, sorry to alarm everybody.

Really crazy. Adam brought up some supply chain issues, maybe some myths surrounding it. We talked about how crypto.com is the new name of these staples, arena. They only paid $700 million for that. That's a good deal. Then I talked about engineered milk.

This is milk, but not from cows. It's actually made from bacteria. From the TD of bacteria. And then I brought up some studies on psilocybin and depression, groundbreaking. Then we got to the questions. So here's the first fitness question. This person wants to know how much muscle the average genetics beginner male can expect to gain in a year, assuming they follow good workout programming

like one of our maps workout programs. The next question this person wants to know about tricep kickbacks, are they good, or are they canceled, a little bit of a debate in that part of the episode? The third question, is it possible to get stronger while eating at maintenance calories? And then the final question, this person wants to know

why some personal training certifications focused significantly on VO2 max as a great indicator of health and why they don't focus on other metrics necessarily. Because they're inferior. Also, the Black Friday sale is going on right now. It ends on Monday and it's crazy. Ready for this? 60% off all maps programs and bundles. 60% off site wide. So just go to mapsfitinistproducts.com and then the code is Black Friday. Black Friday gets you 60% off. Anything use the code as much as you want. By the way, apparel is also on sale. We have huge discounts on our clothing.

You can go to mindpumpstore.com for that. But the Maps workout program sale is crazy. Crazy. 60% off everything again. MapsFitnessProducts.com. Use the code Black Friday for that discount. All right, so here's a crazy fact. Men's testosterone levels have been declining about 1% a year since the 1980s.

So there's a bit of a testosterone deficiency or low testosterone epidemic. By the way, the signs of low testosterone in men look like this, right? So low libido, low confidence, low motivation, excess fat gain from where you might not know where it's coming from, and muscle weakness. Now, here's something else that's crazy. It looks like a lot of women are suffering from this as well.

Low testosterone women, and believe it or not women need testosterone as well, the signs are very similar. Low libido, low motivation, low confidence, muscle mass going down, excess body fat that seems to be unexplained. There are things you could do naturally to raise your testosterone, but there are also pharmaceutical ways you could balance out your hormones. All right, let's talk about this here. This is a big issue. Yeah. This has been an issue for a while, too.

And I think it took me a while to figure that out with clients. I remember, and it would only happen after I'd have a client who would go back and see their doctor and get blood work, and then they'd come back and they would tell me their testosterone levels. But I remember having clients that, you know, man, they seem to be following everything I said on the diet. They seem to be training. And, you know, again, we talked about this before where we were a young trainer, you think they're lying to, you know, like this client just got to be lying. They They gotta be sneaking Snickers bars or not doing the workouts I'm telling them to

or they gotta be lying and because they're not, they're, their weight isn't changing. They're not losing the body fat. We seem to not be putting muscle on really. I've got all my things in line that I think I'm supposed to but they're just, they're not moving the needle. And then they would finally go see a doctor

and get blood work done. And then I'd find out like my, know 50-year-old engineer is at like you know free test is like get one one something you know they're at the floor as far as their testosterone levels. And it plays a huge role. And then of course going through what I went through from using testosterone, using steroids for so many years on and off. And then deciding okay I'm gonna go off completely. Let's see if I can naturally get myself up to a healthy place. And I did that for almost three years, shared that story on the podcast. And man, it's, when you go through it yourself, especially being someone who's in the space and a fitness

professional, a boy, can I tell what a difference it is when you have low testosterone versus when it's just optimized. You know, like my hormone therapist right now, we're not taking a high dose at all. I just keep myself to where... Yeah, you're taking what therapy to go. So this is in bodybuilding? Yeah, so it's doesn't, I don't feel like crazy strong. I don't feel like I'm taking a lot. I just feel good and I can see huge difference on the way my body responds. When I, you know, turn the knobs, start training consistently, dial in the diet, my body composition changes relatively quick versus when it was low. It seemed like I could be perfect for weeks and see little to no change. And then the slightest mishap or off the diet

and I would put on all this body fat. It's crazy, it's like a vital indication whether or not you're in balance and you're healthy. And it's one of those things that I had to rethink about testosterone because growing up in playing sports, it was so demonized, it was so look down upon in terms of like exogenous, you know, hormones and, you know, at this point,

because of the change of the environment, because of lots of factors, remember Carol Hoven kind of brought this up in her book, and it just really set off alarms, like we're just in a different landscape now that we really need to consider, you know, we're like, go getting checked checked, where are my levels at? And what's the healthy ranges I should be considered?

Yeah, testosterone was unfairly demonized, right? It was demonized because it's been used as a performance enhancing drug. And just like lots of medicines or prescriptions are abused, but testosterone really got demonized And just like lots of medicines or prescriptions or abuse, but testosterone really got demonized to the point where it's like bad for you. It's always bad for you.

The truth is there's a range of levels of testosterone. By the way, we should get into that, right? We should get into what that range means, but there is a range going below that range is very bad for your health. I mean, increases your risk of cancers, dementia, diabetes, increases your risk of obesity, heart disease, even prostate cancer,

which is sensitive to testosterone. When your testosterone is too low, they show that aggressive prostate cancers can start to develop. So it shouldn't be demonized. It's also a very safe hormone to use, unlike other hormones that we prescribed like insulin, for example, which you got to be very careful with.

So it is quite interesting. Now, as far as the low testosterone epidemic is concerned, there's been lots of speculation as to why, and this has been observed now for decades. For decades, we're just seeing these declining levels. And they're like, okay, we're less active, we're more obese. But even when you count for those factors and you control everything, it doesn't account for how much it's gone down. And they think it has more to do with environmental factors, xenoestrogens and heavy metals and

palatines. Pollutions. Yes, exactly. There are teenagers. This is true now. I was researching this. There are teenagers now that are showing up with testosterone levels that 80-year-old men are supposed to have.

Teenage boys. Isn't that what that viral article, there were that article that went viral was about, was I think that they compared testosterone in like 20-year-old men today is at the same average level as a 60-year-old man just like 50 years ago or something like that. Yeah, and that's crazy.

Yeah, and the way I feel about, and the way I feel about testosterone is the way I feel about all medical interventions. Does it improve your health and doesn't improve your quality of life? And in that case, then yes, I think it's something that could be beneficial. This is for all medical interventions, right? And I do think it's important that you try to lead

a healthy life so that your body is optimized naturally, but in many cases you do that and you're still like you had experienced Adam or like clients have had in the past, still really low. And so now it's a matter of quality of life and health in which case, okay, it makes sense for supplemental testosterone. And women, testosterone was demonized for men. It's even more so for women, right? It's like, oh my god, if you take testosterone, you're going to change your gender, you're going to grow a penis. Which is so funny because I remember when I was a kid, my mom, when she had her his direct to me, that's, they had to put her on testosterone. And it's prescribed all the time. Special cases. Much lower dose. Yeah. But the signs for women are also now here's this is just that anecdote

But I know someone now who's a female Who has gotten TRT right so she's gotten hormone replacement therapy testosterone primarily has gone through a doctor now where she's about eight weeks in and she's like I wish I did this ten years ago. I feel so much better I have way more and she was a fit healthy person so she wasn't like This isn't like a couch potato week like garbage and then decides to go on testosterone. She was doing everything and she was like man I just couldn't understand I thought it was because I was getting older She went on testosterone and again they bring you within a healthy range or not. They're not the super physiological crazy doses

And she's like I would have done this before had I known how I would feel I would have done this before. Had I known how I would feel, I would have done this before. So this is a big deal. And I think we're gonna see, I predict testosterone is gonna get rescheduled. Right now it's scheduled. I think it's a schedule three drug and it's kind of tightly regulated. I think they're gonna loosen up

because they can see how it's loosening up already. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that the only way you get it was through your general practitioner and they didn't want to do it unless you were deathly sick from low testosterone. And now you're starting to see these HRT clinics popping up all over the place. So I think the pendulum is starting to swing back that.

And the conversation has changed. There used to be a stigma around it that was really bad. Oh my God, steroids bad, you know, I think they all drug commercial. It's so crazy because this is how interesting it is, right? Women go on birth control all the time, no big deal. Which is, these are estrogen or progesterone type

hormones that they're taking. Man demonized, stigmatized for taking testosterone, which is a far, by the way, it's a far safer hormone to take that's the irony of it, isn't it? Well, it just shows you how the power of media, and the way that we can promote something, or demonize something by the conversations that we're having, or how we structure those conversations.

And I want to believe that it's changing. I mean, I'm really excited for, I mean, the first time that we brought it up on the show years ago, I was blown away by the amount of young men that were DMing me That said that heard heard me talk about my experience. They wouldn't got their blood work They're 23 25 and they're like oh my levels were 240 or my levels were 180 and like these numbers that were so low For someone that young and I just I'd never seen that in my previous 10 years of being a personal trainer.

That wasn't a common thing that I heard. I saw that in my 50 year old engineer and my advanced age clients had hormone stuff as they naturally decline as you get older, but I didn't see that in these young men. I see that now today. And so I think because of that, I think you're gonna see this space grow rapidly.

It's already exploded. It's so much bigger already. And I love, I love, you know, I'm really excited for our audience, for the things that we're putting together, you know, to help and support people that are unsure or curious about it that wanna learn more. And that we always lead with that, right?

So adding value first. And so, you know, we opened up this forum a couple of months ago. We don't really talk about it. It's an MP hormones forum on Facebook. And it's, we were going to originally do it private for anybody that's going through the hormone therapy. And as we talked more and more about it, you know, what we're getting so many questions related to this that instead of us, you know, only helping out these people that are already going through the hormone therapy that have the doctor. Why don't we open the forum up? Let's see if we can get Dr. Rand and his team to come in and have these conversations

and live. Yeah, so regenerative and sport medicine is the clinic that we work with and we work with them because we like them the best. They know their stuff the most. They're also very keen on and they really pay attention to how people feel. So here's the challenge with in the past with hormone replacement therapy, at least testosterone. The range of what's considered normal is huge, right? It's 300, depending on the lab you go to, but generally it's about 300 to 1100. So that's the range. And so if you're at 330 or 340 in the past, your doctor was like, well, you're within range, you're okay. Even if you have all the symptoms of low

testosterone, or let's say you're at 400 or 500, and you have all these signs of low testosterone, they'd be like, yeah, you don't need testosterone you're somewhere in the middle. What we know now is it's much more complicated than that, right? You have Androgen Receptor Density, which makes a big difference. In fact, it was a study that compared testosterone levels and men and strength gains.

And they found that so long as a testosterone wasn't like too extreme, there wasn't any difference in strength gain. What they found the difference in strength gain was due to was the Androgen Receptor density. So 500 testosterone, which is lower to testosterone, than let's say 800. If you have 500 B, you have a lot of Androgen receptors.

You're going to feel way better than someone with 800 with really low Androgen Receptor density. So what regenerative and sport medicine does is they say, OK, here's your levels. Let's look at all these other hormones as well and all these other symptoms And then how do you feel? How do you feel? Do you feel okay? Are you noticing a difference? If not then let's see if we can move this up to the point where your quality of life

You know is back to where you want it to be now. I think it's important No, I know you've been kind of overseeing this side of the business and you have got them to come on Is it twice a month? They're gonna start coming on the forum? Yeah, so I haven't written up here. So, okay, so we have a forum on Facebook called MP hormones. It's actually mind-pump hormones. Excuse me, mind-pump hormones. And it's a Facebook group and we have opened it to everybody.

Okay, so I don't know how long we're gonna keep, by the way, it's open and free for anybody. If you get in now, you're in there for life for free. Don't know if we're gonna keep it that way forever. But nonetheless, you can get in there, it's free. And on December 8th and December 20th at 5 p.m. Pacific, Dr. Rand and Dr. Todd, those are both doctors from regenerative and sport medicine are gonna get on there. And they're going to answer any questions at all.

People have about hormones, hormone replacement therapy. This is for men and for women, so you can get on there, it doesn't matter, and you can ask them whatever questions you want, and you'll be talking to, in our opinion, the best people in the business. Yeah, I know there's just a lot of reservations out there because I don't think people really understand.

I mean, it's complex, it's a complex topic, talking about hormones, so I'm sure there's tons of questions before. You want to really make a first step to try and get, you know, some kind of help in therapy in that direction. So, you know, that's why I think it's important to have the conversations first,

and this is a great place to do that. Dude, it's totally a quality of life thing. What you're not going to do is you're not going to go and get, you know, and this is just for people who might not know. Bodybuilding doses, the kind that are demonized or what demonized testosterone, very different from therapeutic doses. So a high-ish therapeutic dose of testosterone

would be around 200 milligrams a week, maybe every six days or something like that. That's a high-ish replacement therapy dose. Bodybuilders do not take 200 milligrams of testosterone. They're taking 1,000 plus other antibiotics steroids, plus growth hormone, or more. This is not the same at all. You're not in that kind of bad, dangerous levels of hormones where you get these things you get to watch out for.

What you're doing with a hormone replacement clinic, that's really good, is they're just optimizing. And again, this is for people who are just like, look, in my opinion, the best candidates for this are people who are already health conscious and have a history of, you know, being relatively fit and are just like, what is going on? Why do I feel, I mean, for men and for women, leads to depression. And sometimes, like, why do I feel so depressed? Then they'll go on other drugs to help with depression when it's a hormone thing that they

could solve through supplemental testosterone. And again, women, same thing. I don't want women to be afraid. It's just a much smaller dose, but again, they keep you within that. Well, I'm glad you said my, that's my recommend to, I'm getting so many DMs and I'm so glad that you set this up for them. And that's it, it's not just these two dates, right?

Is this something you got them to commit? These are the first two dates, but we're gonna be doing, we're gonna be doing two every month as the goal. Okay, okay, because I'm just getting flooded by these questions and I'm just like, I'm not qualified to be answering or telling you or directing you. The one thing that I have recommended to everybody, it's the same thing that I did first

before I did, which is I do think that the responsible thing to do is to kind of check the boxes yourself first naturally to make sure that you're not just masking other issues. So if you have chronic stress and you have chronic bad sleep and you eat like shit, eat like shit, and you just, you've got a lot of things else going on with you. And then you just decide, oh, I'm going to throw testosterone on that. And it will help. It'll make you feel a lot better. But you're just masking other issues. I think it's important that you kind of assess those things first and see, hey, if I never get good sleep, what happens when I get good sleep for a week,

maybe you feel a lot better. I'm so glad you said that. It's such a good point because testosterone is a feel good hormone, no matter what. So you go on testosterone, even if you live a shitty lifestyle, you're gonna notice that, oh, I feel a lot better. Oh, my libido is a lot higher.

Here's the one of the potential drawbacks of hormone replacement therapy. And I've had this experience with clients. Natural testosterone levels fluctuate based on your lifestyle. So if you're a healthy man with good testosterone, let's say you're a healthy guy, testosterone's pretty consistent, 800, 900.

You've got good androgen receptor density and everything's great. But then you just, you know, let's say you have a baby, and you're just not sleeping, and you stop working out, oh my diet's going to crap. Well, now your testosterone might dip down to 500 because everything's all right.

It's not a mic, it's almost certain, right? Right, right, but just I'm using a hypothetical. Now let's say you're on hormone replacement therapy. No matter what you do, your testosterone's gonna be high. So it could mask a shitty lifestyle. And this is where I've seen people, like for example, I had a client, he was 45. And we did the same, Adam, very similar to what you said.

We were training, we were looking at his diet, doing everything. And he's like, man, I used to, like, five years ago. He's like, I used to respond so different. And I'm like, as a trainer, I'm trying to figure everything out. Luckily, he's one of those clients that just did everything I said. So it was like, perfect, because I could say, okay, well used to respond so different. And I'm like, as a trainer, I'm trying to figure everything out. Luckily, he's one of those clients that just did everything I said. So it was like perfect, because I could say, okay, well, it's not this, it's not that.

So then I said, well, on your next physical, let's get your hormone levels checked and see what's going on. So he did, he went, got his hormone levels checked and they came back at about, I think it was like 300 or, it was like at the, at the bottom. He went on hormone replacement therapy, felt amazing, and then he made this big mistake.

He decided, oh, that means I'm going to double or triple the volume of my training now because. And I'm like, no, no, no, that doesn't work that way. Let's stay the course, see how you feel. It's not a magic pill or potion, and you can over train and still make yourself feel like crap, even though your hormones now are optimized. So it's not magic, but you'll still feel better, but it's not magic.

But if you do everything good, and then your hormones aren't optimized, and then you optimize them, I mean, it's a huge, nice, nice eye-seeing on the cake. Huge improvement in quality of life. Well, along the lines of this drug talk, I'm just gonna keep us in the drug space,

where we're here, did you guys see the opioid deaths? So deaths from things like exploded. 29% increase over the last 12 months. Is this a bit of a fentanyl? It's because of the lockdowns and the stressful environment. Oh, how dare you tell that. No, you can justify for that. All suicide. All suicide exploded. All suicide. Crossport, kids suicide. Yeah, this isn't even technically suicide. This is just in general, right? Or like, no, this is over, over, over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like everywhere, like there, because I know there was some place, I don't know if like in the Midwest, it was becoming like really a big problem, like the opioid crisis there, and then fentanyl was a big part of that. Well, there's different places in the country that the restrictions or the ability, I guess,

to get a hold of it is easier or more difficult. So I compare the... I know. I heard Florida has got a really good... Yeah, Florida was really loose, which makes sense, right? You have a lot of people in the world. It's like the oldest population is in Florida. They're probably the most likely the

best people will go to one doctor, get a prescription, go to another doctor, get a prescription. That's right. And that's been a hustle for quite some time. The law is over here, a lot stricter than over there. And I'm sure it's state-to-state. It varies on how much they crack down on that. It's very similar. It's you see marijuana. Marijuana in California, not a big deal. If someone's gets a prescription walking down the street with marijuana, it wouldn't be a big deal. You go somewhere else in the country and it's people freak out. The difference is there's never been an overdose of marijuana. Well, yeah. Yeah, you're going to die for marijuana.

The only way you'll die for marijuana is if someone drops like a thousand pounds of it on your head, otherwise I don't think you can. You could die from it, but it's all suicides have gone up. Alcohol use, cigarette use, junk food, all that, because it's been a very stressful time, lockdowns, uncertainty, fear, and so it just drives this, you know, self-medication. Yeah, it's interesting too, that it's not a constant

conversation that we're having, because I think it was the same article, maybe a different one, but I was going down the rabbit hole. And I didn't know that we have been on a 26 year run of record breaking years every year. So for 26 years straight, we can see. For opiate? Yes. Yeah, it just keeps going up and going up and going up

and going up and going up. Nothing. No. It's crazy though that it doesn't get talked about as much as a lot of other things get talked about. What upsets me is that when we pass public policies and laws, we only look at one metric and we don't consider potential other downstream effects or side effects. Like if we say, shut everything down,

lock everybody down, reduce infection, but then we don't consider, well, are people gonna feel isolated? What about people on the brink? There's a lot of suicides that jump in suicides isn't happy people who committed suicide. It was people who were kind of on the line and they were a little bit like,

oh, I'm not good and I'm kind of depressed. And then this happens and it pushes them over the edge. And that's what you see. You see all those people over the edge, not get pushed over and then stuff like this happens. So it's like the psychological ramifications of all these things, like I really wish that the policymakers would spend a little more time

thinking their way through. They don't. You know what it reminds me of? It's kind of similar, but obviously different topic. I listened to you, the podcast with Joe Rogan and a T.I. Did you guys listen to this? I haven't listened to that one yet So really good dog Peter T.I. He's an exercise nutrition scientist I think if you wouldn't mind looking up his anyway, really smart guy I love hearing hearing the guys you know take on exercise and health and fitness. Super smart guy. But the only critique I have is

the same critique I have for other scientists and scholars. Yeah, in the fitness and health space is that when they give their advice, they don't consider the context of the average person. Like behaviorally. Yeah, they don't. Right. So he's on Rogan and he's talking about like the best ways to improve longevity. And and this is really interesting Doug. What is this? He's a physician. Okay, so so he basically is doing research He science very smart guy. Okay, so it's what I thought So when you're when you're when you're advising people on the best practices for health and fitness a Scientist or a researcher tends to give you the most effective thing that research has shown. They don't consider, is it appropriate,

or people gonna do it, is this actually gonna work? It's basically just like, so here's what he said, right? He said, first of all, I found this very interesting. Being fit reduces your all-cause mortality by five times, which he said there's no medical intervention that even comes close. In fact, being fit and having a good diet, so fitness with good nutrition will reduce

your all-cause mortality more than smoking will increase it. And then to take it a step further, if you just exercise and are fit and have good athletic performance, that'll reduce your all-cause mortality more than diabetes will increase it. So that's how powerful being fit is. But then when he gets into the exercise recommendations,

he's like, yeah, you know, like three hours a week of super intense cardiovascular training to improve your VO2 max. And this and that, and I'm like, listen, no one's gonna do that. A lot of these biohackers love that because it's like all about like the short window, I can get cram in as much as possible.

It's like easier to sell. Yes, and it's just, and it's also inappropriate for a lot of people. I'm not gonna have. It is. The average person max out on a stationary bike and sprint like crazy, because it's totally inappropriate for them.

Plus, we don't know the levels of stress and is it gonna contribute to that? So that's the one critique I have, is that he's communicating in that way. What's out, I mean, that has major message was pushing high intensity cardio. What's that, I mean, that his major message was pushing high intensity cardio. Hard intensity cardio, strength training, and then it was like, you know,

can you hang from a bar for two minutes and, you know, high intensity with resistance training because studies show that that's what's best. Okay, wait a second. If he's advocating for three hours of cardio, where's the resistance? So you add more. Oh, and you're talking five days, six days a week of or oh.

Yeah, good luck. Yeah, I know, that's the thing. Yeah, this example I always give is like, if you ask a researcher, an expert who researches fitness nutrition, you say, what's the most effective form of exercise? They're going to tell you what the research says. If you ask an experienced coach or trainer,

they're going to ask you first, which form do you enjoy doing the most? Exactly. Because we know that's the one you're going to be consistent doing. Yeah, it's all about behavior for longevity. What you're going to adapt to and stick with. Yes. Long-term versus what plays out well in a lab

and that you can see kind of the metrics of it, but that's not sustainable. No, it's also quality of life. Eating perfectly on paper would improve your longevity, for sure, right? Right, amount of calories, right around protein, perfect proteins, perfect calories, like I said, carbs, fats, nutrients, all that stuff.

But what if eating perfect was a major stress on your life? What if it was dysfunctional? What if you, you know, didn't have relationships with people around, you didn't go to events and isolated yourself to eat perfectly? Then is it gonna improve your longevity? No, now it's probably, there's a detriment to, you know, what you're doing.

That's why I said important. Yeah, I wanna take his back to the apocalypse. Just because I'm concerned with the world. And especially because like, you know, places like Egypt, you know, these are like biblical places. You're just like, wow, they still have plagues, apparently. What? Yeah.

What do you mean? So they just went through this. There's this place called Aswan, I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, but there's a city in Egypt that just experienced this crazy flood and lightning and storms. So meanwhile, they were trying to just focus on COVID vaccines, all this kind of stuff. They had to shift completely because this storm basically knocked out everybody's power. And as a result of that, they got these these crazy, like, infestation of scorpions and like some snakes. And it's been, it's stung like 450 people, three people died. They don't have enough antivenom to treat, you know, these people. And like they're telling people, like, steer

clear of anywhere where there's these, like palm trees or things where they live and then Because they're just out in numbers and drove so I imagine it's the weather in the storm It's bringing them in for shelter and so they're trying to find shelter and they're like invading You know these poor people's houses you imagine a bunch of scorpions just come out nowhere like out there Well, and I imagine the ones over there look like crazy ones not like the little ones we see here in you know California, yeah, they're like little tiny things. See now this is terrifying, like if you told me, yeah the locust are coming next to. Yeah, oh no.

Yeah, by the way, look at some boils and, you know, like we know, we know the story. Pink, pink, what do they, would you put above your door, like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah shit like that, right? 500 people, hospital. Yeah, 500 people are hospitalized. That would terrify. That's a lot, dude.

I would have seen those videos of the Lucas, like when there's a certain time of year when they all travel from one direction, have you ever seen those clouds in them traveling? They look crazy. Yeah, there's like billions of them. They'll just decimate crops or whatever. Yeah, see this would terrify me.

If there was all of a sudden like, oh my god guys, there's a scorpion plague coming to San Jose this see this would terrifying me if there was all of a sudden like oh my god guys There's a scorpion plague coming to San Jose like that would get me to move. I would But you wouldn't even believe it like no, that's not true. That does not happen Yeah, I feel like the the whole murder hornet thing You know had me had my cackels up a bit but nothing really kind of happened with that But if that would have been a thing well, it's a murder hornets are like everywhere know, had me, had my cackels up a bit, but nothing really kind of happened with that, but if that would have been a thing, well, I said murder hornets are like everywhere you're walking and stinging you. That'd been a problem.

Yeah, it wasn't there like a, isn't there a time of year in some places in Australia where they get so infested with spiders, that the trees and the plants are all covered? Oh yeah, I sure that picture on here one time. Right. We talked to the webs and everything that it's just it takes over like areas, the ground, and all the trees. It's like a whole park is just covered in webs. Yeah. Yeah. That would freak me out. No thanks. I'm cool. That's when you see me with the flamethrower. Yeah. Would you say because you've been on this earth longer than all of us. Would you would you say this is one of the weirdest times ever? When you look at our economy,

when you look at scorpion stinging and killing people here, like just everything that's going with housing prices, stock market stuff going in crypto, NFTs, is it comparable to any other time? Is there anything that you could go like, well, it was kind of crazy during this time. Okay, I haven't lived that long, by the way.

You know, you're just like, you're just like, you're just like, was that weird? Well, in 1929, when the stock market crashed, that was pretty traumatic. No, the truth is, it's crazy right now. I've never seen it like this. I mean, I feel like we're in a really bad movie

where they took all these different plots and said, hey, let's make one movie. Yeah, let's throw it like this. I mean, I feel like we're in a really bad movie where they took all these different plots and said, hey, let's make one movie. Let's throw it all together. We're in some video game with a, like a 13. The simulation is glitching. Yeah, there's like a 13 year old playing us right now and he's like, I'm bored.

Yeah. Maybe that's what meta versus all really about is like, we're already in it. And it's like, this is how we're gonna reveal it to people, is make them think we create it. And then one day we'll be like, just kidding, you're already in it. Okay, but like, this is how we're gonna reveal it to people as make them think we create it. And then one day we'll be like, just kidding, you're already in it. Okay, but you know what though?

You're creating yourself. If you're being objective, if you wanna be objective, the truth is this is nowhere near the craziest that's been in the last 60, 70 years, the differences were so aware. Like you had, first off, the Cold War, where there were moments where we were one button away from thermonuclear global war.

Right. And that happened quite a few times. Then you had the oil embargo where if your car ended, if your license ended in an odd number, you could get gas on these days. If it ends in an even number, you can get gas on these hours-long weights in line, unemployment through the roof. Like, I feel like we feel like this is a crazier time, but I don't maybe it's just because we're more aware you think that I think this even now is worse than then you don't you don't think so how do you think people respond if right

now the government say or you can't get a lot easier yeah before that I think that's probably part of it because we're just taking on too much of everybody. I mean, I don't disagree with that. That plays a huge role in the panic and then how everybody feels about what's going on. But I mean, I don't know, like with COVID and everything, like I just feel like that is... How do you think people will respond today if we had a Cuban missile crisis, but with China?

What if all of a sudden Biden gets on and, you know, he's like, hey, we've located Chinese nuclear missiles. I feel like a new partner would be like, yep, this was coming too. Yeah, logically, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's why I prefer the revealing of the alien invasion. That'd be my first.

Doesn't there are an Olympics that we banned? We couldn't go to because terrorists kidnapped a bunch of Olympic athletes and was that the Berlin? Maybe I'm not sure there was some type of a No starts with the letter M what the they don't bother with a soccer player I don't know The Munich story. I was just there was a lot we had people getting assassinated all over the place. Like you had celebrities and political leaders getting assassinated. I don't think it's great.

We had civil disobedience that makes what we have now look like nothing back in the 70s. Well, if you think back, we did have two world wars in the 20th century. So that's pretty, I mean, we're fortunate not to be doing that right now. And we don't have a draft. I don't know anybody that was forced to go.

And that also, to your point, like, imagine if we went through a World War with social media right now, I'll fucking weird with that. Oh, everybody would be crying. Right. It would be a lot different than probably what it was like back then. I couldn't imagine if they just said right now, hey guys, you can't get gas on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, if your license ends in an odd number.

Or I couldn't imagine would be like to go get gas and have to wait two hours. How do you think people will react right now? If you had to go get gas and wait two hours in line to get gas. Well, you've already seen it, people filling things up. And every time something happens where there's

a supply chain thing, you just see people in droves, like, didn't we just hit a record? How we did? Yeah, aren't we at an all time, how the average for $84. Did it? Yeah. All time high.

I know. It's not slowing down. Although I on a positive note of all this drama we're talking about right now, I did hear that the supply chain issues is supposed to be loosening up and that the fear of shelves are going to be empty for Christmas and so that is not true. Like, you know, like target some of your big places

are saying that we're up, you know, 17 plus percent inventory and we have more than enough to carry through the holidays. Yeah, so that's the rumor is that it's not gonna be as scary and as bad as what people are thinking. I learned a hack, by the way, for holiday shop. Oh, I saw the Jason's in that to you too. I think so.

The 30 days with Costco. Yeah, so like Black Friday, right? There's like big sales. I mean, one of the challenges is like, you go to, you know, Best Buy or Costco, the computer and the TV that's super cheap. If you're not there in line first, it's gone. They're gonna have like 10 on the floor and they're gone.

That's why people fight over them. So what this lady said, which I thought was brilliant, is most of these stores have a price matching, 30-day price matching guarantee. So buy it before Black Friday, spend extra money. Then when it goes on sale, you just tell them, hey, I want to pay the the cheaper price, the refund to the balance. So I saw that, right? And then the thing that I thought right away was like, yeah, but you know what? I bet you like if you go to a better... Gotta make it a hassle for you to come back to life. Well, so this is how I think they would make it a hassle,

is let's say, you know, TV, since that's one of the most popular ones, right? And you go, oh, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go buy the new Sony, whatever, you know, HD 80 inch for, you know, five grand or whatever right now. And then when the Black Friday sale comes, I'm gonna go trade out. Except for that Sony 10X5 model is the, now the Black Friday sale is, I'm gonna go trade out. Except for that Sony 10X5 model,

is now the Black Friday sale is on the Sony 11X6 model, and your model is not the one that went on sale. So when you try and go do the- Oh, so you guessed the wrong one? Yeah. Or it didn't even have the one that they sell just for Black Friday. A lot of people hold whatever it is

that they're going to launch or release or sell on- Why are you gonna to ruin this? Yeah, because I mean, in theory, I thought it was really cool. I got the same, I got the same text message. I was like, oh, that's really smart. But it's like, oh, yeah, well, how, that's, I know that these companies are smart. They probably go, what we'll do is we'll launch something different on the actual Black Friday date.

So then you think you're being all clever. You got yourself a little expensive TV. Don't get it. I've. I bet that's the thing. TV, the ones that you don't normally sell. Yeah. You know what, though, TVs are way cheap compared to what they used to be. I saw some.

It's crazy. I did go to Costco recently. Super thin, incredibly clear. Do you guys remember when the first, like, quote unquote, flat TVs came out? And they were like 15,000. Yeah, $10,000, $15,000 for like a little 40, 50 inch. Yeah, I just bought not that long ago. I bought a 40 inch little like LCD screen for my bathroom

for like one of the thing in a bath I told you guys about that. It's like little 40, there's ways like a pound it's so light. I think I paid 200 bucks. Yeah, it's so crazy. That's it's way crazy. 200 and it's like good quality, it's nice. It's like I always have reservations about buying electronics because it's just like... You can't ever win though. You can't ever win, yeah. You wait and wait and then the new model comes out and it's always cheaper, me neither.

Like the next day. Dude, sure. Did you guys see the news on cryptocurrency.com or crypto.com, that company that's getting popular? I don't know if you guys have seen the company. Or the chains are named to crypto.com or crypto.com, that company that's getting I don't know if you guys have seen the company. They changed their name to crypto.com. That's the staple center. Staple center paid 700 million dollars.

Someone paid them. What do you mean? Who paid 700? No, crypto.com paid staple center, 700 million dollars to change the name to crypto.com. Is it cryptocurrency or cryptocurrency? I have it in my nose. It says crypti. Oh, that's just that right.

That's someone that might be a type of crypto. Crypto.com. Yeah, crypto.com. $700 million to have that. And I'm seeing the commercial. I don't know if you guys, my ads on my YouTube channel, commercials, when I'm watching streaming, it like Bitcoin cryptocurrency. Did you know there's one place, I think one or two places in the world were businesses

and people prefer to use Bitcoin over the currency. Where? El Salvador and Venezuela where people prefer because the cash is the money so messed up over there. Yeah. That they actually prefer that you use Bitcoin. That makes sense over that. Yeah.

When you're currently. Cryptos here to stay. I just don't know. Which one? I mean, I think we could safely say Bitcoin is the goal. Yeah, but who's buying Bitcoin? It's 50,000 or 60,000? 60,000 now. No one's buying Bitcoin.

I mean, the rich are. Not one. You're buying pieces. Yeah, I mean, I don't, and even then I don't know if there's a lot of people today. At least in my circle of people that I know, everyone's speculating on the XRP's and all the different coin.

The ice coin. Yeah, the sheba, the like coins, the... Yeah, because they're still playing that game. I'm talking about just, I would bet that the one that's gonna stick around, the one that's most likely to be used as currency, the one that's most likely to be liquid, is Bitcoin The one that's most likely to be liquid is Bitcoin, right? That's the safest bet I think is.

Okay, now like, let's see if I got trolled or not, but somebody told me that there was like a Let's Go brand in crypto. It's like no way, dude. No way. That's what I heard. I heard that. Did I bring up on the podcast, the five,

the top five songs in the, in the ideas, okay, I would say, I did so crazy where that's going yeah the whole Let's go brand and think I can't like to make currency out of this to this is this is crazy Hey, I did you guys hear that they're now engineering milk? They're gonna make milk without cows. I've heard of this. We just saw billboard on the milk That's not it's called not milk. Is that what it is? No, no, no. They're saying is milk. How is that? Oh, there's a brand callsically possible.

There's a brand called not milk. And I saw a massive billboard on it when we were, were we just heading out? We were thinking about something. So it's a startup company, there's a startup company that raised $13 million to make dairy products not from animals, but rather from micro organism. Well, how's it considered dairy then? So it's a Tel Aviv based startup called Imaginary.

Imaginary. Nice job, guys. That's clever. So listen what they're going to do. I'm going to read this to you. Instead of milking a cow to get cow's milk, the scientists of the company insert DNA instructions for the production.

We milk that bacteria. For the production of way in case you're into micro organisms. So they have chosen these two components as they are principal milk protein. So they take DNA, put it into these microorganisms, the microorganisms then produce way in casing. Then they add plant-based fat, sugar,

and water to the mix, and boom, you got milk. Imagine. Real milk, no cows, imaginary. You know what I'm gonna start up right now? It's crazy. It's a. Real milk, no cows. Imaginary. You know what it's like to start up right now? It's crazy. Yeah. It's a Tel Aviv based company. What are your tastes like?

No, because it's got the plant-based kind of like fats and everything else, it's obviously not the same, but it's got way in casing made from bacteria. How wild is that? It's wild. I know. I'm not going to lie. I have a different advance. I have a different view on things like this now

after our conversation with our buddy Zach and Zybiotics. Yeah. I do have a different look on it. Like just, I don't know enough, or I didn't know enough about GMO to really, it has such a bad name attached to it, at least in the health and wellness space. Yeah. Anti-Everything GMO, but when listening to him talk about It has such a bad name attached to it, at least in the health and wellness space.

That there's anti-everything GMO, but when listening to him talk about where that science is going and how amazing it potentially can be, it's... Dude, you could theoretically, you could program bacteria to do all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah. So you'll program bacteria to make medicines and drugs

and... It's hard to find them. Foods, it's gonna be be it's kind of weird I mean how do you feel I do at least I my outlook on it is different after that conversation Okay, so here's here's what I think I first off There's there's real benefit in the fat that comes from dairy and the sugar that comes from dairy is different They may be the ones from plants. I don't think it's gonna be completely equivalent. However if getting bacteria to produce way in casing protein becomes extremely inexpensive and makes it easy, easily accessible to the world, we could solve some serious problems. If you're in a part of the world where it's hard to come by quality protein and you're nutrient deficient or whatever and actually having

cows, milking cows, cost X amount of dollars and you could say 50% of that by doing it with bacteria. You get artificial fats and you get all the protein. If you can have all that from the production from bacteria, that's pretty damn interesting. Yeah, I was scared of you though. If you're like a dairy farmer and that's your livelihood and it's been that way for multiple generations. What if seeing news like this?

Yeah, what if the future is gonna be like this, like wealthy people, like you're gonna go to a super expensive restaurant and they're gonna be like, this still have the real meal. Yeah, that's how it's gonna be. House meal, please. I do believe it's gonna be like that.

That's what I'm saying, they're gonna give you a piece of steak with a picture of the cow. This actually came from a real cow. This was not grown in a lab. This was alive, you know. And you're like, this is real. I do think it's gonna get like that, dude.

I think it's gonna get, for all good reasons though, right? To your point, like, I think we're gonna solve hunger. I think we're gonna be able to get to a place where we can make so much food, that at least people can survive off of it, right? So they're not gonna die from starvation and be able to get to a place where we can make so much food that at least people can survive off of it. So they're not gonna die from starvation and be able to feed the world.

But then you're gonna have this huge gap. You're gonna have that stuff that's extremely cheap and that you can live off of and survive, which I think will be good for a lot of people that are in poverty. But then you're gonna have, you know, oh, you want to. I want real, yeah. It would be cool to just have a cow as a pet.

Yeah, that's it. What are you gonna do? They're just down. So you're like a real boss then. Yeah. Put a strap on something to ride in. We used to eat these before we grew it in a lab. It's gonna be kind of weird.

Cow races. Let's go way down now. Let's go to the future and let's get crazy with this. What about when like this DNA into bacteria technology becomes easily accessible. Now the average person with internet access can figure out how to do this. Now you can program bacteria to do all this stuff for yourself. So now rather than buying.

Give me an example. Give me an example. Like what we just said, theoretically, if this tech gets easily accessible to people, and it's easy to do do people could do it themselves Oh, I have yeah, I have a vat of bacteria in the back that makes Casey in a way and I'll yeah, I grew some I grew some bacon in my 3d printer lab Dude back to it just seems like it's like the building block, you know It's great. I still am convinced now that we are bacteria in the human suit

Well, I mean we we are we're more we have more bacteria cells than anything else, right? No. All right, we? Or one to one. It's one to one or more. Oh, I thought it was more. We're more like one to one. That's what's access.

He said it's about as many bacteria cells as human cells. Oh, see, I thought we were more. I thought I read that we were more bacteria cells. That's what I used to think too. Yeah, I thought it was like three to one or something. That's what I used to quote. But then he said one to one. So, and he's the expert on it.

So I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna listen to it. Different. What he said. All right, so more, some more cool research. More studies have come out on the use of Silasibon to treat depression. And it's blowing the doors off of anything we've ever done before for treating mental disease.

So this is huge. There's two companies or one in particular that is looking to make this into pharmaceutical. I think it's Compass Pathways is one. I'm invested in them. So full disclosure, because I think that this could potentially completely revolutionize mental health treatments. Because there's nothing,

if you look at these current studies, these new studies, nothing comes close to how these things seem to be in terms of their effectiveness. It's crazy for therapy, right? Like it's so promising with psilocybin, but also isn't there a value to MDMA for like post-traumatic stress? I've seen some studies around that that are really encouraging as well. Aren't they similar to psilocybin though when it comes to therapy? Or is MDMA, are they both for different things? So psychedelic research refers to all these drugs,

MDA, Scybin, LSD, what's that other one, that tranquilizer? Oh right. What's that tranquilizer? I know it's a horse tranquilizer, but you actually use it as anesthesia. I can't think of the name, maybe Doug. We just talked about it on the show the other day. I don't know why I can't remember.

It's literally on the top of my tongue. Anyway, the studies are done on all of those drugs and they're coming out and showing lots of benefits. Silasibons probably one of the preferred ones because it's so safe, but I've also read studies on the other ones as well. And again, the results are mind blowing. Like, it's like you have treatment-resistant depression.

You do therapy with psilocybin after a few sessions, your depression is relieved. Ketamine. Ketamine. Thank you. You don't have to see, you don't have to go back for months. So it's like you do this therapy and you're cured for a long time. Like six months or a year. Yes, some of these are one session. That's what I thought. I thought the PTSD study they did was like 80 something percent, like one session, I thought, it was something crazy.

Bro, look at this. So here's a recent study, right? So the study found that patients who took a single psychedelic dose of psilocybin, 25 milligrams, in conjunction with therapy, by the way, this is very important. They're not just taking psychedelic. You guys are getting higher than doing whatever.

No, in fact, you can go in the opposite direction. You could have a bad experience and actually give yourself worse symptoms. But anyway, so it's in a control environment with a really good therapist. So they reported in almost immediate and significant reduction in depressive symptoms that lasted weeks compared with patients who were given a placebo essentially. So 29 patients or 36.7% who took the 25 milligram dose, showed a 50% or more reduction in symptoms in three weeks after the single dose.

And again, at three months, this is insane. 24% who took the highest dose were still in remission three months later. Can you think of any drug that treats this kind of depression that way? It gets those kind of numbers. You do it, like imagine if the future of, you know, mental health treatments is, oh, every 90 days,

I do a therapy session under the influence of psilocybin, which is extremely safe on the body. And we're moving in that direction, but then the 70s happened and it just became this thing they could target, like certain groups of people to stop these protests. And they're like, we lost all the research. Lots of studies were done,

we're being done on psychedelics until they were labeled, you know, enemy number one or whatever and that was it, it all got shut down. Here's my only fear, right? So this is all done in a medical setting. You're a pharma company, okay? You're still a company, you need to make a profit. So you have either antidepressants

that people take every single day, huge markup, big margins, or a one and done drug. Yeah, or the three-ney machine. Or you buy three pills a year, because you go see the therapist once and then, like that's the part that makes me go, huh, how's this gonna work out? Are they gonna charge you?

Hopefully that gets disrupted. I mean, you gotta imagine it with the metaverse. Well, how's this gonna work out? Are they gonna charge it? Hopefully that gets disrupted. I mean, you gotta imagine it with the Metaverse. Well, how? What do you mean? Taking the psilocybin going through your therapy in a virtual setting. Imagine how wicked that would be. That's gonna fuck with your mind.

Just like, I wanna take streams, I'll play video games. Yeah. Yeah. Just thinking about that first. Take a big enough dose, you need to go with the Metaverse for my brain. Oh my God, I just can't imagine with that would be good. You're already in the Metaverse, so you can that. Big enough dose. You need to go to the medivers for my brain. Oh my God, I just can't imagine what that would be. You're already in the medivers if you take a big enough dose.

Yeah, yeah. You're smurfs everywhere. Ah! But I think it's remarkable, and I hope that the research continues, and I hope that they find a way to make it profitable, because then it'll be easily accessible. Although I will say this, I'm not going to name any names, but I do know therapists,

these are, that's psychologist, but psychotherapists and psychiatrists, who are working with some of these psychedelics kinda on the side, because it's so effective. Yeah. And it's because they're like, it just works. Nothing works like this for some of these patients. Do you think it'll get fast-tracked

because of marijuana kind of paving the way right now, or do you think because of the, because of like what you just brought up? I think the decriminalization will. The use of it as a pharmaceutical, they have to find a way to make it profitable. Otherwise, I don't know how we'll do it, you know, how it'll get covered,

or why they'll invest in developing these drugs necessarily. It has to be profitable. That's a problem. Now, where's decriminalized places like Oakland, right? That's a place where it is. Are we seeing like these little pop up therapy type places that are clinics that are servicing? Right, I'm not aware of that.

I have no idea. I mean, that are on the up and up, right? I've heard rumors of people that will do it with you and stuff like that, but I haven't heard of like somebody who's like advertising or that are promoting that they will take you through. Wasn't it Oregon? I think they're full blown legal, right? No, no, no, still decriminalize.

Yeah, they just decriminalize other drugs. That's what Oregon did, right? They got all crazy. They took everything off the table. Going to the store and buy some. Yeah, no, I don't think so. You know what makes me wonder if in the future, because we've talked about this a billion times, how much of sustaining weight loss and maintaining a good relationship with food

and fitness is psychological? It's all psychological, right? I mean, that was always the challenge with clients. It's like they know what to do. I've been helping you. I've been working with you, but you just, you have this really bad relationship with food or maybe you're using food as a way to self-medicate. And it's just this is very challenging. What if downstream some of these therapy sessions could be on other things besides the extreme stuff that we're seeing, which is like depression, PTSD?

What if it was like I'm obese, I can't figure this out, or I can't quit smoking, or I'm an alcoholic. Actually, I did see studies in alcoholism and it actually showed a pretty good effect. What if it's like that? So you go to the doctor or your therapist, they give you psilocybin for pretty much any kind of challenge that you have, and then you come out of it and you're like, you know what, I wanna take care of myself.

It makes sense of its surfaces, you know, something there that needs to be addressed that you've been avoiding, right? I know it's like effective in that regard. It'd be interesting to see if it had that same effect because I know too, like some people do hypnotherapy and other treatments that are kind of unconventional and have had success, you know, being able to break some addictions, but yeah, it'd be interesting to see if it's... There has to be a little bit of a self-selection bias though right now.

If people that are willing to do this right now when it's gray market are really, I mean, if you are doing this now, either one, you have experience with that already or two, you're really seeking to help yourself or grow, right? And so you get to be in that mindset. So I think that mindset going in probably has a lot to do with the outcome of it versus if it becomes so widely accepted there, but he goes like, oh, I'll just go try that. And hopefully that'll fix me.

And then the work part isn't in there or the desire to really get what I'm saying. So the people that are doing this now are willing to do the work. Right, I've been trying to figure this out, trying to wear it and they want to put the work in. Now there's a counter to that, right? The counter is that they are so far testing this

on treatment-resistant individuals. Like one of the hardest things to treat in medicine is treatment-resistant depression. So hard to work with and solve. So challenging. PTSD also. So if your PTSD is so hard to work with and to help people.

And it's like, it's such a torture. And the fact that they're showing these results on these treatment resistant, kind of challenging individuals, makes me think that, you know, and what you're saying is very valid too. So that's interesting, I even think of that. But I would guess that maybe we'd see even better results because now you're dealing with people

who aren't so extreme, they're not that severe. Maybe we'd see even better results because now you're dealing with people who aren't so extreme. They're not that severe. Maybe we'd see better. But I feel like because of that, they treat it like it's no big deal and they go in with the same type of effort. I don't know, I just feel like everything else in our life, we've learned the important of the journey,

the hard part and the climbing them out and going through all that stuff. And if everybody can just fast track to fixing their obesity problem, fast track to fixing their obesity, probably fast track to fixing their depression by getting high one time, I just feel like you're gonna see those percentages start to decrease. Yeah, that's not a bad point at all.

Just my theory, I don't, I mean, cause those numbers are so incredible that I would have to think that there's probably people, and it's very, I mean, life changing for those. But I bet those are people that have tried a lot of different things that have been working really hard to probably try, and it's very, I mean, life changing for those, but I bet those are people that have tried a lot of different things that have been working really hard to probably try and fix it. I think that attitude alone going into something like that

that is opening up the mind and making those new pathways. So I've been reading the theories on, and they know what's happening in the brain, right? It's opening new pathways, it's getting different brain, parts of the brain, it's getting sort of connecting other parts of the brain. But the way that they explained it was like this.

Okay, so I'm gonna try and bring it back to what we've experienced working with clients. You're working with someone, they have an issue with obesity. Maybe it's a lie. Let's paint the picture. This person's dealt with being overweight the whole life. So you have the client who is an overweight kid,

overweight teen, overweight adult. Now they hire you and they're 40, very challenging to get this person to change these behaviors It's been how they've lived their entire life Until they're willing to go deep and acknowledge those challenges and acknowledge why they have this things and face the pain It's very hard to get them to change. So the theory behind a lot of these psychedelics is they open you up to the point where you're okay, you forgive yourself and you face your pain. I was reading one on PTSD and one of the challenges is getting this, let's say the soldier who has PTSD to walk through what happened, go through it and not be angry with themselves and what did I do but rather forgive themselves and be open.

And that's the big part of why they think some people think these things are so effective. So that part right there makes me hopeful. Yeah, and you'd think that some of these government programs would get behind it because like even my dad, like as he was in the Vietnam, like I got exposed to Agent Orange, and it was like such a problem way later on. But besides the trauma and everything else of just being in war, just to like him having to go to these treatments and then they have to like cover that.

These insurance companies, you know, from the Vets side. Like you'd think that this would be something that it's proven, it's got a track record, it works. Like saves money. saves money because there's so many different visits you need to take to kind of treat. and it's proven, it's got track record, it works. Saves money. Yeah. Because there's so many different visits you need to take, to kind of treat.

You know, more soldiers die from suicide now than from war. Yeah. Yeah, it's been like that now for a little while. What has been the latest, I mean, what's been the latest big news in this space? I mean, you brought up a while back with the decriminalization in some of these states, but has there been anything else that we've made like huge headway? Like a lot of stuff we're talking about right

now, we've kind of known for a little bit now. Yeah, no, the biggest one was there was a company, let me see if I can find the name that had that created a synthetic version of Silas-Ibane. The company is called C-Ibane. Sibon. Very inexpensive. I invested in them too because I thought this is interesting. Good way to head your back. Yeah, and what they did is they created a drug that was like psilocybin, but obviously a pharmaceutical, makes it easy to patent and whatever, and they also had positive results from the...

So the kids, yeah, concentrate and have replicable dosage. So it's like, because I would imagine that, if you didn't even get mushrooms, you don't really know the potency of it. That's a good question too. Is psilocybin similar to marijuana where the same size of a mushroom could be dramatically stronger or weaker than other?

Yes, but when they do these in studies, they standardize the psilocybin. So they're giving you... So when they grow, the whole process is the same. Then they take out the cellosybin. So they're giving you... So when they grow the whole process, the same, it's getting the same results. Then they take out the cytosybin and then they make sure you get the exact same dose as the next person. So they're not just giving you a mushroom to eat,

where you could get a higher dose or a lower dose. They're standardizing the dose. So now the reason why a synthetic version is interesting is because now you can patent it. Well, yeah. So you say the sideband grows naturally. So they have to find creative ways to patent. And relatively inexpensive, too, right?

I mean, it grows on cow shit. Yeah, for free. Yeah. Again, back to the cows. Hey, real quick, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. Look, if you're watching this podcast, if you're watching the show, or listening to the show, you're very interested in your health, you're interested this podcast, if you're watching the show or listening to the show, you're

very interested in your health, you're interested in nutrition and fitness. Now, here's one of the challenges that people run into when they increase their protein intake and they're trying to eat healthy. Sometimes they encounter some gastroissues, high protein diets, sometimes your digestion needs to acclimate, it can cause some issues. Maybe what can help you are digestive enzymes. Now I use them regularly. They help me with my gut issues. I don't get gas from lots of protein. I break down my vegetables and my starches,

much better. It also helps my body assimilate these foods. So I'm utilizing more of them for the things that I want them to go to, like muscle growth, and less to maybe body fat storage, although that has to do with calorie surpluses, when your body is inflamed from poor digestion, it can move hormones and your body in a direction that is unfavorable. Digestive enzymes can definitely help.

The best place to get digestive enzymes is mass zimes. They make digestive enzymes for fitness people. Go check them out, head over to masszimes.com. That's M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S.com forward slash mind pump, and then use the code mind pump 20 for 20% off. All right, enjoy the rest of the show. First question is from Alex Eun. From your experience, how much muscle could an average

genetics beginner put on in a year assuming they're following a maps program? Really good question. You're more than other programs. Great commercial for maps. No, no, okay, so if, okay, good programming, low-in, 40, high-end, 60 pounds somewhere on their... Oh, jeez. Naturally, that's a bold statement.

Okay, so let's say you got a good workout program, so it's appropriate for your body. It's geared towards building muscle. You got good sleep, good diet, average genetics. I would say it's probably realistic in terms of lean body mass in the first year for a man to probably gain anywhere between, I don't know, 10 to 15 pounds of lean body mass in the first year.

All things being equal. I think that's, what do you guys think? I think that's sort of a... If you're talking about a brand new beginner, I think that's very realistic. I think you could see even higher numbers that. I mean, professional body builders would say that, they could add 10 pounds of muscle in a year

that's like amazing. But they're already so big in the whole thing. Yeah, and they've also been training for a long, long time and taking everything already in their sun. But when you're new, boy, it kind of, it comes on pretty quick. So I mean, that's lean muscle. That's not just overall mass, which I think a lot of people get, they lump all that in together in terms of what they've gained.

So yeah, we're talking just the lean muscle. Yeah, I would say 10 to 15. 10 to 15 in about a year, the first year, with everything being good. For women, it's probably more like, I don't know, 48, probably roughly half. And then each year after that, you'll probably slow down in terms of your gains.

Now here's the thing, okay. All things being equal, boy, is there a wide variance in genetics? I know people that have gained 30 pounds of lean body mass their first year of training, and these are just genetic freaks. Freaks, yeah. And then I know other people where it's like five, and he got, you know, men, where it's like four pounds of lean body mass in a year, and that first year was really, really challenging.

So it can really make a big difference. Well, I think the, most of the stuff that I've read is between a half a pound to a pound, like on the good end, right? On the high end, a half a pound to a pound of muscle a week. If everything is dialed in a week, yeah. Oh my God, that would be, that's two pounds a month, two to four pounds a month.

That's what you just said. 48 would be primo for 56 weeks, but the reality of that's not. Then maybe initially, right? Yeah, yeah, right. So, and that's, I mean, again, that's the high end of what someone could potentially anticipate. Well, I think there's also that novel sort of window

if you're a beginner, right? You get those sort of new gains for the first few weeks, for the first few months, and you can kind of, you know, get a real good jump start. I was, it's all relative to,'s all relative to your actual size already too. So someone who is a 200 pound man could gain 20 pounds and it's not that big of a deal. That's got percent, right? Yeah, exactly.

A guy who's 120 pounds, total different story. So, I mean, it depends on the size, depends on the genetics. So, there is a wide variance here, but you could put on a decent amount of muscle in, I know as a young lifter, I know there was at least a year there where I had a good 10 to 15 pound gain in the year. What was your best year?

Probably something like that. Yeah, probably something 10 to 15 pounds. My best year was. Not a non-anabolic, right? So like obviously I've had bigger jumps when I was on steroids, but naturally probably 10 to 15 pounds. Mine was when I was 16 and I gained like over the summer. I gained about on the scale 14 pounds. I don't know if that was, I'm sure it wasn't all lean body mass, but that was over a summer as a 16 year old kid. I got stretch marks in my legs and in my armpits.

But it's genetics play a big role. And also when you're a beginner, the muscle gains kind of look like this. It's almost like a bell curve. At first your strength goes up quite quickly, but you don't gain muscle very quickly. And that's from central nervous system adaptation. And you're learning the exercises. You're learning how to do them properly. So you're not really able to maximize the benefit you get from them.

So it starts off from a muscle game perspective, a bit slow, and then it ramps up, then it kind of peaks, and then it starts to slow down again. So it's like, if I got a new client, that was otherwise healthy, you know, in an, you know, let's say the age range of 20 to 40, and they're doing everything right, it's usually after the second month that we would start to see the muscle gains really start to come on, you know. Well, don't you think though too, like they hit that inevitable sort of tapering off

and plateau because they're not thinking ahead in terms of changing the stimulus up and the programming and addressing that. I think a lot of times that you just feel like you're making all this progress and you stay within that same sort of protocol, whereas this is something that we really were intentionally drying up with the MAPS program.

Yeah, I read another article that said that the average man over the course of a long period of time with good training, good diet, could gain naturally roughly 20 pounds of lean body mass above their, what their body would normally carry. So that was the number that I read. So if your lean body mass sits around 160, after four or five years of good training,

be consistent, you could probably carry an additional. I mean, this would be an awesome commercial for us. I mean, I'd love to have somebody who owns like four or five programs, because that's what it would take to get all the way through a year. And changes up to stimulus every five programs, right? Because that's what it would take to get all the way through a year. And and changes up the stimulus every three months, right? New program stays tied on their diet and is a new lifter. And then reports back, right? You do your body fat tests before just to see kind of your baseline.

Do something that's consistent, whatever one you decide to do. And then test it in the air. It'd be really interesting to see what that would be. I'd love to. I love the. A little. Yeah, sort of. Yeah, I. I'd love to be a leaner. So a little sort of copy. Yeah, I think 10 to 15 is very, very likely.

I think it's, you'll see some. I think it's realistic. It's realistic, yes. It's really, okay. Okay, okay, likely is hard because how many beginners do you know for a year? Well, okay, yeah, but we're assuming that, right? We're assuming they are doing a calorie increase.

We're assuming as they start to build, they slowly continue to increase calories. Calorie work out pro. Right. They're following maps, right? They're following maps all the way through for an entire year. An adequate recovery. Yeah. Well, it's built into the programming, right?

So they're following maps perfectly for a whole entire year. They are eating accordingly, meaning that as they gain muscle, they're continuing to scale the chloric intake up from where it was before, and they do that consistently for entire year. I think 10 to 15 is more than realistic. I think you should expect that for if you're doing all things. I would love to see somebody squeeze that even further, like see how far you go. I had some, I had some, I mean, I got DMs all the time.

I had a guy, getting 20, you know. And it's probably up a little bit better on the genetics. At the time point, he was young, he was in his 20s. But he gained 20 pounds of, I think almost all lean body mass as body fat percentage of facts stayed the same. I think he only gained a couple pounds of body fat with that. So I've seen it from some of our people. You know, it's funny is the longevity effects

that they're measuring from muscle are really coming from the strength. So it's the strength increases that they've connected to longevity, not necessarily muscle, but strength is a great way to correlate to muscle. So just a side note. Next question is from Kenzie Benzie 00, our tricep kickbacks effective.

The internet says they're canceled. You know it's funny. I like that. It's easy, Benzy. Okay, here's one of my favorite things about following resistance training and exercise for as long as I have exercises are like, it's like clothes, they fall into fashion, they fall out of fashion, into fact, in the 90s,

it was super unpopular to squat. Nobody freaking squat it. Everybody laid press and hacked squat it. Now everybody's starting to squat again. Deadlifts didn't exist. Nobody deadlifted in the gym unless you were a power lifter. Overhead presses were all behind the neck with a barbell. Nobody did military presses like we talk about now.

Tricep kickbacks have been popular, unpopular, popular, unpopular. Do I think they have value? I absolutely think they have value. What I put them in the same category is like dips or close grip bench presses or skull crushers know. But if you do a proper tricep kickback, where you really pull the elbow up real high,

pin it to your side, and then focus on that squeeze when you bring the dumbbell up to almost nothing cramp your tricep like a tricep kickback because of the shortened position of where you're out. I mean, you can easily convince me it's worthless. It's just, here, you're like by analogy. If we're going to stick with the clothing analogy, we're going to stick with your clothing

analogy of falling in an hour and a half. I want to hear you guys out, though. Listen, if we're going to stick to the clothing analogy that these things fall in and out of favor and the tricep kickback is someone that, then the tricep kickback is the chums of clothing or apparel. You could do without them. They're not that big of a chums are. Chums are the ones that go on your sunglasses. Hold your sunglasses.

Nice accessory. We're cool for a little while. They actually still sell them. I took a picture at a gas station. It's all being sold for like early 90s reference. No, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna make my case. Okay, tricep kickbacks, I put it in the same category as cable press downs with the rope,

those types of what bodybuilders call finishing exercises. If you've done at the end of your workout, a really well done tri-ship kickback, and it's really important, you keep your elbow high, pin it your side, and focus on full squeeze. Almost nothing will cramp your tri-sicep like the I swore to God I mean, I guess if cramping the the tricep is what builds muscle than that would be no, come on Don't be a smart try it and see for yourself. It's it is It's on that level. I mean I would not work I would not take for a long time. I was all into him and it was probably in the early 2000

Yeah, I don't know. They don't make it, I can't tell you how long, and if I were to do them now, okay, if I were to do them, once you won't probably catch me doing them, I would actually do them on a cable and not a dumbbell. I really think they're worthless with a dumbbell. So most people let their elbow drop too much,

they use momentum, you've got about a six inch of window of movement where it's actually effective at all. That's what's such a different feel when you do with the dumbbell, it's all about the squeeze. The whole that way up there, oh my god. I think it's canceled in my book. I was definitely, if I was going to do it, I'd grab a probably like one of those single ropes and then I would pull back with it.

So that way you least are keeping the system more tension on at the entire time through the movement. Yeah, no, it's not a, I think it's, it's not canceled. There's all it. I mean, it's one of those pumping exercises, like the other ones that people do. Look, I tell you what, try them out.

Here's a deal with your elbow far back and pinned your side. So your elbow's a little bit higher than your body. The long head of the tricep is shortened. Then on top of it, you squeeze like crazy at the top. It's an interesting feel that I haven't really replicated with almost any other exercise. I'm not saying. I mean, you're getting that elbow position in a dip.

No, you're not. You're not getting it at the top. What I'm talking about is that full squeeze at the top with the elbow higher than your body. It's a very shortened position for the- still up, but you're locked out. You don't get that in a lot of movements. No, you don't. Now with that full squeeze, it feels very interesting. Now again, I'm not placing it in the category.

It's, you'll find it in I think one of our workout programs, maybe as a focus session. Did we? Maybe. Yeah, the focus session is a static or split. But yeah, it's definitely in there as just like your single joint. Like this is where hyper focused on just the tricep, like any angle possible, right?

Yes, but it's not canceled. I think it's got some value like other pumping exercises. It's not canceled, like I said. If we were to go back to how we always talk in order of operation of exercises, as far as all the tricep exercises are out there, it is towards the bottom, if not the as all the tricep exercises are out there, it is towards the bottom, if not the very bottom of tricep exercises.

In fact, give me a tricep exercise that's worse. Oh, easy, supinated push downs. Easy. Well, what, because you're comparing it to pronated, and that's just the way, how many tricep exercises you see when it's in your wrist position? Yeah, they're changing the wrist position,

do you want to sell the stupid stuff? No, no, it's better than that. You're the elbow. Yeah, if you do three exercises for your triceps and the last one is a finisher, where you're getting a pump, swap it out for kickbacks, try it out. Do the squeeze at the top, go light,

hold the squeeze at the top, watch what happens. I feel like he's defending it just because he was doing it like he's going to do it. I actually have him most of the time. I saw he was in the gym. Yeah, he's doing that. And then what's this one called? We haven't finished it today. I saw he was in the gym. Yeah. He's doing that. And then what's this one called?

We go like sideways. Yeah, that's the, what's the name? No, I can't because it looks like it's the Michael Hurley. Michael Hurley. No, no, no, no. It's like there's the elbows out and it does. I'm not doing anything,

but I'm trying to emulate. I have a dumbbell right here. I'm coming the inside. What am I going to do? And then I'm extending this way. I mean, we've said this before. No exercise is technically a worthless exercise and everything has some sort of value.

If you work out all the time and you do a lot, you've done all the tricep movements and you never do tricep kickbacks, would I concede this argument? Like, okay, yeah, okay, you could go there. Just, I think that it'd be hard for me to name an exercise and I don't like your reverse grip tricep push downs because if you did that and you didn't do pronated,

it's not a bad movement. It's just a silly movement if you do pronated then it's a silly move. No, I think it's, I think it's super. I'll tell you what, I haven't done it for a long time, but I have done it in the past and they use the word canceled. No, it's not canceled for a pump and for a squeeze as the last exercise in your group of exercise

for triceps, I think it's got some value. Will it replace dips, close grip bench presses, skull crushers, overhead triceps. I mean, you get another exercise besides that reverse grip push down that it's not worse than. All the cable weirdness that people do for triceps. Oh, I do it this way, I do it this way, I do it this way,

I grab a rope, I grab a bar, like okay, what's really important with triceps? Elbow position, right? In front of your body, over your head, down by your sides, name a tricep exercise with the elbows behind your body, almost. Well, yeah, not at the peak, because you start there in the dip, right?

In the dip, your elbow. But you don't finish with your elbow up in that back position. Yeah, I mean, you can make that, you can make that case. So, um, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, perverse push down is not bad. I don't know. All I want is Andrew to put in here score. It's down one. Everyone else is down. You get like a point of a point. Next question is from Hannah Fit Lift. Is it possible to get stronger while eating at maintenance? Totally, of course.

Strength is a skill. I've gotten stronger, not added any muscle at all, just because I was able to fire better, and just control the weight better and have better skill and technique with it. Well, this is where a lot of the sensual nervous system doesn't come into conversation. We've tried our best to kind of describe it,

which is hard to do to people, but really just going through that process of being able to recruit and intrinsically produce more force creates a stronger situation where you can now have access to more strength than you did before, but not necessarily you're not going to gain size. Well, that's why I've always loved the analogy that Sal gave, because I never heard it before. We all got together, which was the speaker and amplifier analogy. And I think it just works in so many examples. It works here again. If you are investing in your amplifier to get more power to your speakers,

you don't necessarily need more calories or more strength. You get better skill at a movement and you're increasing your amplifier. You're making your amp better, which is true. Yeah, so you don't necessarily need to have higher calorie to do that and or add a bunch more muscle in order to get a bigger amplifier for your muscles. And that's why I love that analogy because that's an example in my opinion of the CNS

here is that you, by practicing and getting the movement down really well, you are investing in a better, stronger amplifier for your speakers. I'll give you an example that completely illustrates what we're talking about. If you take two groups of people, and you already know what their maxes are, nobody's gained in any extra muscle, and then they go and test their maxes again, but you give half of them caffeine,

and the other half, no caffeine, you will see a statistically significant, maybe 5% or 3% increase in strength in the group that took caffeine. Did the caffeine make them build more muscle? No, caffeine is a CNS stimulant. So it just got their CNS to fire harder and they were stronger. Can you do this without taking supplements or chemicals? Yeah, you could train your CNS. You know, when they do studies on Olympic weightlifters, Olympic lifters are, they can summon something like 95% of their actual potential.

So you have 160 pound Olympic lifters. Because of the way they train. Have you ever seen that? Because we've talked about this, right? We've touted that before. Have you ever seen that compared to what the average person is? Average person is something like 40 to 50.

Is it really that low? Yeah, I knew it would come closer, actually. No, in order for the average person to generate their true potential of strength, they have to be under extreme stress situations. This is like the story of the adrenaline or yeah, it sort of overrides a lot of the governing that's in place.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you guys have ever experienced that yourself or you're like, you're in danger, your kids in danger and you do something. And afterwards, like, for me, I definitely lift weights and stuff, so I'm sure I'm higher experienced that yourself, where you're like, you're in danger, you're kids in danger, and you do something, and afterwards like, for me, I definitely lift weights and stuff, so I'm sure I'm higher on that range than the average person, but I by no means train like an Olympic lifter, and I definitely don't train plyometrics and explosive power.

I do a little bit now because of Justin's influence, didn't do in the past, but I'll never forget, my son, my oldest, he was two at the time, he was at the top of the stairs, and he was was saw me and he was just ready to jump off the top. And I leaped, I grabbed the rail, I ripped it off the wall and leaped to the top of the stairs and caught him. No way I could have done that naturally.

You couldn't have painted it. And I pulled the mat and I ran it. I do the same thing. My son was falling down at the end. I pulled my hamstring really bad because it's just, boom, I, you know, exploded. And that's why your body doesn't let you do that. It's got those governors, but yeah, you could totally, if you just get better at a lift,

you can lift more without gaining any muscle. Now, is that beneficial to building muscle? Yes, because as you lift better, and you get stronger because you lift better, now you're able to apply more stress to the muscle and get more out of that exercise. Well, this is why the advice that we give so often to people is just, you know, look at your workouts.

Go to the work gym and just practice. Just practice and get good at the movement because that in itself, forget adding weight to the bar and trying to sweat harder and increase intensity. Just go practice getting good at the movement and watch the carryover you'll give. You know, there was a Soviet method of training that did that where they would take athletes

and let's say the athlete could squat, let's say they could squat, 315 for 20 reps, for example. They would have the person squat 315 for like 15 reps or 10 reps every day. Even if they got stronger, so 10 reps at one point kind of feels like, oh, I could do another 10, but then the next few times, like,

whoa, I feel like I could do 25. They kept them doing that for three months, and then they would test their max, and you'd see this huge boost in strength. And it was all because they were practicing. Next question is from Kev Petrishan. Why is it that some PT certification companies focused significantly on the idea of VO2 max as the greatest indicator of health and tool for program training?

Because that's that's what the studies center around. So one of the challenges that I have with a lot of certification courses is also a lot of their strengths, which is they focus heavily on data. And when you look at the studies on physical performance and health, there's lots of studies done on VO2 max and endurance. Very little studies done on strength. And they're all athlete driven, which has no real relation to like everyday average people. Yeah, so it's also very, it's one variable that you're looking at versus like measuring strength. It's like muscle-strawl. Yeah, but there's a lot of moving parts

when it comes to that. As far as somebody's, somebody's rest could have been good for a day, so their strength is down or up, so things like that. Well, we do know how studies on strength, and they are very simple. They use a grip strength test, and it's actually a better predictor

of all cause of mortality than other single metrics. It's my favorite way to do it. But it's just there were no tests like there were no studies. All the studies were done on stamina and endurance. If you were if you were a research in the 1990s or before and you wanted to study the correlation between physical fitness and longevity, you would almost always pick some type of endurance metric. So there's a lot of studies that are done on that.

There's very few done on that are done on that. There's very few done on flexibility or strength, although now we're starting to see a lot on strength and starting to show that there's a huge connection between strength and longevity. So this is why they do that. Now, here's the flaw on that. You're training average everyday people and you're a new trainer and all you're looking at is VO2 max and you ignore mobility, you ignore strength, you ignore how well they are able to fire

particular muscles and posture in movement because you're just focused on VO2 max. Plus, training VO2 max is a bit inappropriate for a lot of clients, right? Like if I have a 60 year old client, it's never exercised, like, probably not a great idea to push them to max out their VO2. It's also really easy to manipulate and to improve.

I don't know if you guys have read the stuff on it. Like you could improve your VO2 max every day. Every day, you can improve it. And it's a pretty fast adaptation. Yeah, it's a very fast adaptation. So it's like, I don't know, I'd rather focus on something that I think that's gonna take a little bit more skill, more time, and better behaviors, and get that in my client before. I mean, I could put them on two weeks of every day doing some

intense cardio, and by the end of two weeks, we're going to have a huge difference in their VO2. What's the most protective? And we've seen multiple studies now coming out about muscle being one of the best things to pursue because of the strength and the protective qualities it has for all kinds of things, even with prevention of disease, protects your organs, so many benefits to that. And then also just like eliminating aches and pains for the long haul versus you focus on cardiovascular output, that repetitive stress,

that oxythe stress, all that stuff accumulates. And if that's your only focus, like you're going to end up in a bad position. Yeah, to be fair, improvements in any metric of physical health within a particular range, right? So we're not going extreme. So improve your endurance or improve your mobility or improve your strength, like all those things are going to improve your health and your longevity. So to be fair, they all contribute. But here's the part that gets very challenging is there's other things that they sometimes don't include in the studies. For example, if you get stronger, you're less likely to lose your balance and fall. So I'd like to see a study that shows the correlation or connection between strength

and falling down and breaking your hip. Or how about pain? If you get stronger, you're less likely to have pain, which means you're less likely to take. Pain medications, which have their own negative side of the same major factors. That can cause issues, right? So it's much more complicated.

And also, if you really want a good indicator of health, you're never going to use one metric anyway, even strength is by itself is flawed. You want to look at multiple metrics to give you a whole picture and then look at behaviors and quality of life. One of the reasons why we work with NCI, for example, is NCI actually takes that into account. They really take into account behaviors and context of the client. They're very science focused, but then they're also like, but also look at the person, also consider

what they're gonna be consistent doing, what they enjoy, what their quality of life is, and what it can potentially mean downstream. And then here's how you apply it to this particular individual. I think that's so important in a lot of certifications miss that, because they just go off of the research. Look, if you like our information, head over to MindPumpFree.com and check out all of our

free guides. We actually wrote a bunch of guides to help you with all kinds of fitness goals. Again, it's MindPumpFree.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So Justin is at MindPump Justin. I'm at MindPump Salon. Adam, is that MindPump Adam? Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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