Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1704: Building Muscle With Fewer Calories, Full Body Workouts Vs. Body Part Splits, the Ultimate Workout Goal & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: December 11, 2021

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: If you train to move better, you are probably going to look better. If you train to look better, you won’t always move better. (2:47) Does an athlete have an advantage in having an extra finger digit? (30:42) Mind Pump Recommends, The Alpinist on Netflix. (32:24) Get that glowing skin with Caldera. (40:34) The times the government experimented on its own citizens. (45:38) Quintin Tarantino getting sued over ‘Pulp Fiction’ NFT script auction. (49:17) Sal is obsessed with Paleo Valley’s bone broth protein powder. (53:50) #ListenerLive question #1 – How can I hit my goal of building more muscle and not feel stuffed in the process of hitting my macros? (56:02) #ListenerLive question #2 – What is your philosophy behind MAPS Anabolic and its differences to Bigger, Leaner, Stronger by Mike Matthews? (1:09:35) #ListenerLive question #3 – Can you offer advice/tweaks to my strength and conditioning programming for my student-athletes? (1:24:51) #ListenerLive question #4 – Am I reading too much into achieving the ultimate fitness goal? (1:40:26) Related Links/Products Mentioned December Promotion: MAPS HIIT and MAPS SPLIT 50% off! **Promo code “DECEMBER50” at checkout** Mind Pump #1495 The Science Of Happiness With Arthur C. Brooks Kentucky's JJ Weaver goes viral for picture with 6-fingered hand, ex-Yankees pitcher has perfect reaction Watch The Alpinist | Netflix Assessing Risk and Living Without a Rope – Lessons from Alex Honnold (#160) Elon Musk Says That Immortality Tech Would Be Very Dangerous FX on Hulu - What We Do in the Shadows Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code “mindpump” at checkout for the discount** Top 10 U.S. Government Experiments Done on Its Own Citizens Quentin Tarantino Wants “Offensively Meritless” Miramax NFT Suit Tossed Out; Studio Sued Oscar Winner Over ‘Pulp Fiction’ Script Auction Visit Paleo Valley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “Mindpump15” at checkout for 15% discount** Visit ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Sydney Cummings - YouTube MAPS Fitness Anabolic Bigger Leaner Stronger: The Simple Science of Building the Ultimate Male Body MAPS Fitness Prime MAPS Fitness Prime Pro The Resistance Training Revolution – Book by Sal Di Stefano MAPS Fitness Performance Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Arthur Brooks (@arthurcbrooks) on Instagram Alex Honnold (@alexhonnold)  Instagram Marc-Andre Leclerc (@mdre92)  Instagram Sydney Cummings (@ sydneycummings_)  Instagram Mike Matthews (@muscleforlifefitness)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pupp, right? Today's episode we answered live questions on air, but the first 53 minutes was an intro portion where we talked about current events and scientific studies and we talked about our sponsors. Here is some of the highlights of today's show.

We talked about aesthetics and how they follow performance. We talked about JJ Weaver of the Kentucky Wildcats. We talked about the show, the movie, excuse me, the alpinist. We talked about how we use Caldera consistently, and it makes our skin look good. By the way, right now, Caldera's having the biggest sale of the year right now. While supplies last, you can get 30% off

with our coupon code, MindPump, 30% off any of their products. Go to calderalab.com, that's C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B. com-forward-sash-mind-pump, mine pump, use the code mine pump for 30% off. We talked about the times the government experimented on its citizens. We talked about Quentin Tarantino getting sued for making NFTs. And then we mentioned Paleo Valley bone broth protein.

They have many, many products that are paleo friendly. One of our favorites is the bone broth. Another one is their grass fed and grass finished meat sticks. Go check them out. Head over to paleovali.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump 15 for 15% off your first order. Then we got to the questions. We talked to Vanessa from Illinois wants to build more muscle,

wants to know what she should do, because she can't eat any more food. Next question was from Michelle from New Jersey. She's a personal trainer, but her husband wants to build some muscle, wants to know the difference between a body part split and a full body workout and why full body seems to be better, or why maps includes full body workouts. Then we talked to Brian from California. He's a strength and conditioning coach for a high school.

Wanted some advice on training that his students. And the final question was from Jennifer from Massachusetts. She is in the perfect place, wants to know if it's okay, if she just stays there, or if she should have specific goals to chase after. Also all month long, we're running a 50% off sale off of two of our most popular workout programs. Maps hit, which is high intensity interval training, so this is rapid fat loss in a short period of time,

and Maps split, which is a body building, body sculpting routine. It's a split routine, old school style, a bit advanced. Both programs, 50% off. Go check them out, head over to mapsfitinistproducts.com and use the code December 50. That's December 50, no space for that discount. Look, aesthetics tends to follow performance,

but performance doesn't always follow aesthetics. In other words, if you train to move better, you're probably gonna look better. If you train to look better, you won't always move better. Discuss. Yeah. Yeah.

That's true. It is, it's one of those things. It's like, you know, if you work out to improve mobility and function and control and strength and stamina, what typically follows that is a balanced, symmetrical, strong looking physique, the other isn't always true. There's a lot of people that train hard for aesthetics

and they sacrifice movement because in the pursuit of aesthetics and then because they continue to sacrifice movement, they start to get injuries, they move poorly and they slowly start to lose their aesthetic. You can get hyper focused on certain areas of your body and you know really bring them up but once we keep like focusing on segmenting the body and not considering the whole, it's gonna affect how everything performs together harmoniously. And so that's something that you always gotta consider that in terms of when we're in a certain phase too long,

especially in just focusing on aesthetics. It's how can I now apply these muscles that I've acquired and how how are they functioning as opposed to just how big and You know vany and vascular You know, it's funny is that when I was younger. I remember obviously my goal was I wanted to get big right want to build muscle And then and this is one piece of performance performance encompasses like everything that has to do with how you move and stuff. But I remember these power lifters, I was a kid, I was a young kid and they told me,

you wanna get big, they said, if you just get stronger, you're gonna get bigger. Don't worry about anything else, just get stronger right now and you're gonna build that muscle. And I did, I just focused, and it was like, God, it was that summer, I think I gained like 15 pounds of muscle because I listen to what they say, I'm just going to get strong and see what happens. And it blew away the results I had before where I was just focused on, you know, oh, I got

to make myself look a particular way, you know, made a big difference. I don't know if I fully agree. I mean, you're implying that if you train like an athlete, you could look like an athlete. Not necessarily, but, let me put it this way. If you only train for performance, you're probably gonna get a great deal of aesthetics. If you only train for aesthetics,

think of all the people you know, but only train for looks. Yeah, I see what you say. So I don't agree with that. I think that there's a lot of kids, there's a lot of adults too, that are training like athletes in hopes that they're going to look like athletes

that never get to that place because their diet so fucked and or their performance training sucks. Well, okay, so. All things being. Performance in athletics, I agree, athletic training wise, but performance wise in terms of like compound lifts and considering more of a holistic,

functional type of training versus, yeah, because I do agree. People that try to do these explosive movements like athletes and everything, it doesn't always present, you know, the greatest physique and also you get a lot of issues and problems in that direction because that's the extreme of, you know, what we're talking about. So it's, but in terms of the opposite end of that, I would consider if that's your entire focus is just to build up your aesthetics,

like you may be diminishing a lot of the quality of your movement as a whole. That I agree with. So like I agree that training like to look a certain way, more often than not leads to poor movement. that training like to look a certain way more often than not leads to poor movement. I mean, a lot of bodybuilders, including myself when I went through the competing years, some of my worst movement patterns came from training

like a meathead, because all I cared about was how I looked and not how I performed. And so you neglect a lot of the exercises and movements that helped with that. And I wasn't doing it because it didn't give me the biggest bang for my buck when it came to building my shoulders or my chest. So I agree with the statement on that side,

but I don't. I don't. You got the context, that's okay. Obviously, all things being equal, right? You can have a crappy diet, trained in a particular way, expect to look better. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, all things being equal, right? You can't have a crappy diet, trained in a particular way, I expect to look better. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, all things being created equal,

if you always are focused on looks, eventually, and I'm talking about longevity speaking, eventually you're gonna lose your ability to do certain exercises, you develop aches and pains, your movement, quality will start to decline, and what follows that? Well now you start to lose your aesthetics versus taking care of your ability to move,

working on ranges of motion, doing exercises that have the most paying for the buck. That's what I mean by when I say performance. So, you know, I'm glad you said what you said, Justin, because it's not just aesthetics. When I'm saying performance, I mean it in the general holistic sense. Yeah, and I think too, you gotta consider

like objective and subjective type of feedback and how you're evaluating all of that right? So, you know, there's a lot more objective type of data in terms of like is my strength increasing? I could see that when I'm training more for performance You know versus like am I am I gaining the kind of size and shape and, you know, like, there's a lot more... Well, the subject of the activity... My point is this, there's a hell of a lot more people that are interested in what your professional athletes are doing and are trying to emulate what they're doing and that are failing and not getting the results they want than the people that are trying to

emulate what bodybuilders are doing. There's a much smaller group of people that look up to bodybuilders and train that way. Then there are kids and people that look at professional athletes, like Tom Brady, and want to know, what is he doing diet-wise? What is he doing training-wise? I'm going to follow that. Yeah, that, no, no.

That's the wrong routine, obviously. I agree with that. You still got to train right for your body. I know, but I'm just thinking that statement that you're saying is... It's meant to be a statement, and then we talk about it. So this is part of the conversation. It can be true, but I think that you're saying is meant to be a statement and then we talk about it. So this is part of the cover. It can be, can be true, but I think that you're missing a bigger portion of people who you're communicating to because somebody here is performance at athletic training and

they think, train like an athlete. That's what people hear. They hear that they don't think your guys is textbook definition of it if you do your way off. Okay. How do you train like an athlete? Do you copy another athlete's routine? Most people, yes. That's not if you do your way off. Okay, how do you train like an athlete? Do you copy another athlete's routine? Most people, yes.

That's not what you do. Well, that's my point though. Exactly. No, no, and that's good. I'm glad you're saying that. You still have to train appropriately for your body. So this is all gonna be very individual. So this doesn't mean follow someone else's routine

that's inappropriate. You're gonna follow a pro NFL players' routine. It's very specific to that individual, what they're trying to accomplish, their history, their body, their position on the field, like all that stuff, that's wrong. But if you train yourself and your focus is movement and performance, you're more likely to get the longevity

with your aesthetics than if it's only always on aesthetics. This is true for even a lot. Also, your influencers and your IG people and your magazine cover people, and like not just bodybuilders, but you know, all these like aesthetically good looking people, like they apply their routine, which is completely wrong. Yes.

I mean, no doubt, it's on both sides. But when you think of general population of people that out there, sports has such a huge influence on kids and people and the way they train. That's why they always go get some athlete and they put them on the front cover or some movie star. Yeah, and it sells and it sells to millions,

not a few hundred people. You walk up to 10 people on the street randomly and ask them to name five bodybuilders and they won't be able to tell you, but name five professional athletes you want to look like and I bet you they can do that. You're right. You're right, but I think it's a mistake to take performance and say it's how this professional

athlete plays. That's what performance is. No, here's what I'm talking about. It's for performance from my grandma is, hey grandma, let's see if we can get you to walk down the street versus just halfway up. Yeah, you've improved your performance, or my dad, hey dad, I know your back hurts when you bend over, so improve your performance,

let's see if we can get you to bend over further. And lift this without pain. Yeah, can you lift, like that's what I mean by performance is your ability to perform better, move better, better ranges of motion, less pain, stronger, more connected. If you improve upon those metrics and keep that in focus, you're going to get longevity and you're going to get, of course, all things being equal. You get a great deal of aesthetics.

On the other side, if it's like, oh, I'm just going to focus on my weight, I'm just going to focus on how ripped I get or how I look in the mirror, which just made a great point. So subjective. If you have any type of body image issue, which most people do, you hold a little bit of water, less water, lighting is different. I don't feel so good about myself today. Boy is my opinion going to change drastically based on that. I mean, how many times have you had a client look at a picture of themselves five years prior and say, oh my God, I look amazing.

But I remember in that picture, I thought I looked so terrible. Versus performance, which is very objective, I was able to squat more weight, or I was able to do this with an inch deeper position with more control and stability. Or my form looks so much better. Well, we all agree that that's the most healthy approach towards fitness period is looking at your performance, how you

perform in the gym opposed to how you look. Totally. Paying attention to how you look. It's a hard one, right? Because you don't want to tell people, hey, you can't have a goal to look better or you can't have a goal to get abs. You don't want to tell people. Exist the majority of what they're coming in there for.

Right. I think the idea is to just to warn them where that potentially could lead if that is your main focus. And it's a much healthier approach to look at movement over that. But I think performance for a lot of people just translates to athletic ability. And I think that athletes are the first thing

that people look to. I think it's one of the biggest, one of the biggest problems that are in the space is that you've got professional athletes that people aspire to be like, whether they like them as a person or they love their team and they like the way they look. So they try and follow that and they think that this is performance. This is what they, what mind pump meant when they said, train for performance is to do that.

Yeah, along those lines, the extremes are usually not the best, and I don't care what pursuit you're after. So if I look at the extreme performance in terms of strength, I may look at a 350-pound power lifter. Or a strong man. Yeah, or a strong man. That is extreme performance, but I think in those extreme cases, you lose a lot of the other stuff, extreme endurance runner, or extreme extreme muscle hypertrophy or any of that stuff. So I think this is in the context of overall general and for that individual.

And if you're goal, like I used to tell, this took me a long time to figure out, but when I got to the point where I remember where I said, oh, you know, my clients, I said, you know what? Here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to the gym and practice these exercises. I just get better at these exercises and then the results are gonna follow. Don't worry about hammering your legs, get better at squatting, for example.

I don't worry about blasting your shoulders. I want you to get really good at overhead pressing. I want you to get really good at doing these suspension, trainer, W's, or whatever. And when they would do that and they'd go in with that focus, it was like everything else fell into place these suspension, trainer, W's or whatever. And when they would do that, and they'd go in with that focus, it was like everything else fell into place

versus when they would go to the gym and say, I gotta look better, I gotta, Mo, I wanna hammer my quads, or I wanna hammer my glutes. Well, it just seems that with that mentality, the goalpost just keeps moving. And like you said, like, it, that's why sometimes you'd like to take your client back

and show them, like, look how far you've got. You know, and like, a lot of times they have to like, visually see that because they just look at themselves currently at where they're at and where the flaws are. Is it's always like looking at their body in terms of where the flaws are and it's just never seems like it's achievable. Yeah, it isn't because they're not addressing the root cause.

That's why the goalpost keeps moving because it's really an insecurity issue. It's not really a 10 pound or 20 pounds. There's nothing that'll fill that hole. That's right. It's a bottomless pit because you think you look at yourself and you go, oh, I hate the way I look. I just need to lose 30 pounds.

You lose the 30 pounds and then you're in the boat. You're saying right now. And that's because the problem wasn't the 30 pounds. You didn't address the real problem first. And so it'll just keep moving that goalpost. You know, it's funny how it's talking to Arthur Brooks, good friend of mine. He's also an expert on happiness. So he's the one that looks at all these studies.

He's a professor, he teaches about this. And he studies all these different metrics that contribute to happiness. And physical appearance and looks, right? A lot of people think, oh my God, if I'm beautiful, if I have the perfect body, I'm gonna be so much happier. What he actually finds in the literature, and this is well studied, is let's say you're in the middle,

let's say on a scale of one to five, your average good looks. And then you dedicate your life to looking better. I mean, you train, you eat right, you get plastic surgery, you get on anabolic steroids and hormones, and you do the whole thing and you go from a five to a 10. Your happiness goes up like a percent. It's like it has such a small impact on your overall happiness. He says it's a it's like one of the worst investments of time. If that's all it is your goal in terms of making yourself

happier. Now in terms of like improving your health, then that's all it is, your goal, in terms of making yourself happier. Now, in terms of improving your health, then there's a big impact, right? Oh, I feel better, I have more energy, which gives me more time to do things that I love, I'm not as sick as often, then there's huge returns when it comes to happiness. So it's really, and they find this with money, too, by the way. And the studies on money are very interesting.

Once you meet, and there was a number that they came up with, but it's an old number. It's 70 something thousand. Yeah, it's old though. I'm sure it's a little higher now, but it covers your survival needs and all that kind of baseline. Yeah, I think there was 70 something thousand. It's lower middle class. Yeah.

It's like lower middle class once you reach that. So that obviously it changes on the state. Once you're not worrying about food and rent and electricity and you've got basic necessities. Once your basic necessities are covered, you can go out to dinner every once in a while when you want to. You're not laid on any bills, you have a car and earth of that.

That is a huge, not having that and then having that. Makes a big difference. His life changing, for sure. That can be life changing. But then from there up, it's like percentages. Very, very small. And the higher you go, the less it matters.

Like you're a millionaire to a billionaire. It's like, And I would even make the case that it potentially even gets worse because your expectations are that when I reach a quarter million a year, I'm going to be happy. Oh, shit, I got there. I'm not happy. When I reach a half a million a year,

and what ends up happening is it's this never ending chase. So you probably get discouraged or frustrated with that it never ends up feeling level. Unless you're applying consistent gratitude disciplines, and you're focused on positive and good things that are happening in conjunction with that. It's like otherwise if you're still in that mentality of like, well, I'm not here yet,

and I don't have this yet. And it just becomes like this addiction. It's such an interesting dance. And I'm still working yet, and I don't have this yet. It just becomes like this a- It's such an interesting dance, and it's, I mean, I'm still working on this, right? How do you stay motivated to keep pursuing like growth and business or financial, right? And you guys know that I always get like this, right? Where I get frustrated, or I'm,

because I want more, I want us to do more, or whatever. But then also recognizing, look at what we've done and look how happy everyone is. And then I also don't want to find myself getting complacent. So it's like that fine dance of like, how do I stay present and have gratitude but at the same time too strive to push to do more. So again, these are very reflective of your fitness state. Yeah, similar conversations I had with, again, with Arthur Brooks. I love his information on this. And there's a couple of things with that.

One is the, if you're doing something that has a deeper sense of purpose and meaning, then you'll get, you'll derive a tremendous amount of value out of it. So in other words, if your business is, if what you're doing your business, you really feel like I would do this even if I made way less money and I really, really like the people that I'm helping and it's making a huge impact. So I want to get better at that and the side effect of that is you keep making more money, but the driver really is that meaning and purpose aspect. Yeah. Then you'll keep growing and you'll side effect of that. 100% I 100% think that is the secret to scaling

a massive company is always going back to probably what motivated you at the beginning, which was providing value to somebody else. It's the Y. And so as it gets more complex and there's more moving parts and there's more money coming in from these different places, they're not get distracted by milestones financially,

a dollar amount, but reminding yourself that, oh, this was, how can I look back, go to the very beginning again and go like, okay, look at everything we're doing, how do I provide even more value for those people that are already buying? How do I stay on this meaning? Yeah, I think they focused on adding value to their life, knowing that it'll inevitably scale up

and it'll produce more. And then the other thing with money that I was gonna say that I thought was very interesting is when people Make more money and use it to give themselves more time. There's a much larger Payback than when they use it for other reasons. So it so So for example, let's say you have a bunch more money and you're like, you know, I want to get this crazy Stereo system for the house and whatever, or you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna hire a gardener so that now I have

an extra hour every day to do other things. They find that opening up time for yourself gives you much more payback in terms of value than like buying things. Anything is growth. So like, okay, I'll do this to learn the skill or to grow some, you know, my awareness or whatever you're into.

They also see that that, you know, gives you... Well, I really think one of them is for others and one of them is for you, right? The tangible things sure gives you momentarily pleasure, but it's really to show everybody else, look at my nice car, look at this nice things that I can afford. When we're out, it's really not making your life that much better versus doing something that frees up, like having a house cleaner that, okay, if I clean

the house on average two to three hours a week every week, having somebody who now takes it off my plate, I now have three hours that I could allocate towards spending time with my wife, for my child, or my fitness, or reading, or improving, or traveling, doing something, like, I think that's the key to that is focusing on those things. Yeah, can you guys think back as some of the best things you've ever spent money on?

Do you guys have any idea? We already, the house cleaner one. So I remember when I was... Isn't that funny? Yeah, I was my... Did you go through a guilt process with that? No, I didn't go through it. I didn't go through a guilt process

because I'm the numbers math guy, right? For sure. So right away, I... Oh, let me guess. You did this. While the housekeepers were working, I can make this much more money than we're working. Yeah, it was easy for me to defend

when people thought, oh my God, you're being lazy. So I had a condo that was 1700 square feet. My first house I bought, so not a lot to clean, right? But I had a house cleaner. I had a house cleaner as almost as soon as I had a house. I made sure that I could afford to do that, which back then I think it was like, I think I paid 250 bucks a month

and I had a cleaner in there three times a month, I think to come clean my place. And people thought that was absurd. But I knew how much money I made per hour, training clients, and back then I was a fitness manager, so I could factor in my time and say, okay, when my time's worth X amount of dollars, I could either want, and we had the luxury too,

having a job, which not everybody has this, right? Like back when we were trainers, if I literally wanted to make more money, I could work an extra day that we can train for my clients. Like I had that flexibility, and I could also say I don't want to. So I could dictate, you know,

four more hours of training clients, which would result in, you know, few hundred more dollars at least. Well, that one day of me training a couple more clients would cover the cost of me having a house cleaner all month and I love doing that. Like I love training clients. I love making money in my job.

So why wouldn't I want to go spend a couple more hours doing that? I did not love doing dishes and doing cleaning toilets and bathtubs. I did not have any enjoyment doing that. So it was really easy for me to justify that. Now later on, I found ways to really understand at a whole deeper level with like, and that's I think that having a wife and kid and seeing us being able to spend,

now I have this time that I can spend with Katrina or Max and now it's extremely valuable to me. Yeah, totally. Yeah, same for me was the time thing, or investing in that time and hanging out with people that tend to make me grow. Like I love hanging out with you guys, because that happens a lot for me,

they're just through hanging out with you guys. And then travel was a big one that I didn't really understand until I actually, till I met Jessica, she's a big travel person. And when we started dating, we would do these trips. And I'd get so much value out of them. I didn't have anything I met Jessica, she's a big travel person. And when we started dating, we would do these trips and I get so much value out of them. I didn't have anything I can hold besides pictures. Like I took this thing that I paid for,

but when I think about them, they bring me so much more value than anything else that I spent money on that's equivalent, cost or whatever. Yeah, mine was very similar to that in terms of experiences and spending money to make sure the family dynamic, like we were all doing something together,

like a memorable thing, like whether it was even hiking somewhere exotic or we were in a different location, I'm really big into nature. And so to make sure I was spending money in that direction to make sure we all spending money in that direction, to make sure we all had good connection with each other. Like lots of good conversations came out of that as well.

I'm still working on some of the stuff in terms of letting things go house-wise. And I have hired people to help me now, and it's been game-changing, in terms of now freeing myself up to just focus on what's going on in the kids lives and then taking Courtney out to that was another big thing was like scheduling dates that I just started doing that. Yeah, I'll spend money on and I probably do it more now than ever before because otherwise if I'm not intentional about that I don't have those kind of meaningful interactions if I don't schedule it out. It's just the nature of where we're at.

Yeah, if people, I saw this with clients as I got better as a trainer, I would have clients that would be me for 10 years. And they would, I mean, I wasn't cheap. So they're investing some of them. Some of them I would train couples, not together either separately, and then they bring me their kids. So these people are investing thousands of dollars a month on exercise, and they would always tell me how they worked their budget to fit this in because of the value they would get back from the money they invested in terms of how they felt

and lack of pain. And you know, this is such a, you know, relieves my stress. And I think if people understood that really, because I had this comment, I was on a podcast the other day and we were talking about how we can really convince people or communicate to people, the real value of fitness and health. And I told the story, I've told you guys before, I was at this Christmas dinner, it was my ex-wife's company, so it was like a tech company. So there was no fitness people at the table.

And we're all introducing ourselves. And of course, when they know I'm a trainer, it always happens, you're a fitness person, you they know I'm a trainer, it always happens. You're a fitness person. You're with a bunch of non-fitness people. As soon as the food comes out, everybody's apologizing. Oh, I'm gonna eat some of this bread, okay? And they make jokes about it, right?

It's like I'm used to it. Well, I remember this lady had a few drinks of alcohol or a few glasses of wine. And she goes, you know, I used to have a friend who worked out all the time in 8-Rye, did everything right, and then she died of breast cancer when she was, you know, 50-something years old. So, I'm just gonna enjoy my life. And I remember thinking, man, people really have it wrong.

You know, and I don't think the fitness industry's helped, by the way, I think it's actually contributed to this problem. But people, the average person thinks that working out and eating in a way that makes you healthy. It's like a chore. It's not enjoying your life. It actually takes away from your quality of life, which is exactly the opposite of what it does.

And I remember sitting there going, man, we got to really do a better job of communicating this to people because if people think not being healthy is enjoying their life, we have done a shitty job of communicating what health and fitness does. And so, and that's, I mean, if people really knew, you would not have planet fitness gyms charging $9 a month and nobody shits, you know, signing up. The same people spending, you know, $200 a month on their cell phone bills.

How, speaking of them, how are they doing? Have you guys look at, are they crushing right now? They're getting up there with like, one of the most valuable chains right now, aren't they? They really tapped into that model where you pay, and this is what it is, and they tapped into human psychology. Look at that, Doug, most profitable fitness chains. I want to see where they learn. They're up there, man. And it's like, they've tapped into the psychology where it's like, okay, oh, I'm motivated.

I need to work out or oh my god, I'm fat. I need to do something. Then they go and they sign up. And it's, and the free pizza, by by the way works into this psychology because they think I'm paying ten bucks a month I'm not going at least I get free pizza that covers the cost. Or you know what it's so cheap why would I cancel which is really the evaluation of it at the end it's like I haven't really used it but you know I might use it and it's just at that price point where it'll just oh you know what in case, I'll keep it. Do you know how many, wow.

Any time fitness is number one. Well, no, this is for franchises, but I think in total, there's like, there are planet fitness is number three. No, I know, but it says there are best franchises to buy. So I think they're calculating it from that perspective risk. I didn't even know that planet fitness was a franchise. It does franchise some of their gyms, obviously. I didn't know that. I if this was a franchise. It does franchise some of the gyms, obviously.

I didn't know that. I thought it was all privately on corporate. Is that basically what it's saying, Doug? It's not talking about how profitable the company is itself. No, what I'm seeing here is how much it costs for the franchise fee and then how much it costs to actually get started. And then probably how much they have make on average

or whatever. Yeah, so the three of them. Yeah. There are royalty fees of 7% of total gross monthly. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. Total gross, 50 junk. And opening one can cost over $4 million.

Yeah. Wow, $4 million? Yeah. Holy shit. You know, I had, I just had a conversation with a family friend who wanted to open a brick and mortar fitness facility and Sound like they were asking my advice. I wasn't sure if they were asking my advice or if they were trying to see if I'd want to invest or something like that And I had this whole conversation. I said that brick and mortar business is tough man. So you can a lot of capital a lot of risk

And you're limited with how you can scale because you have one location. You got to do another one You got to do a lot of capital. That's how, I mean, kudos to people who run very profitable, brick and mortar fitness spaces. Because that's a, that's a problem. I think you're okay so long as you go in with the right expectations, right? So I always, when someone tells me they're going to, I always ask, what are they seeking?

Like what drives you to want to do that? That's a good question. And if you say things to me like, I've always just wanted to have my own gym that I come into and work out in my fan and something close and I dictate my hours and it just gives me so much joy. If I'm hearing stuff like that, I'm cool.

If they all think of it as a great business move to make money, that's a terrible reason to get into it. And the truth is, most likely you won't. Most likely you'll make less money than you're probably making right now working for somebody else at a gym than you will having your own place. But if that doesn't matter to you, say you've got the income that you, or you already've made the money you want to make or you have the things that you want to have and so you don't have ambitions to make more, then sure go do it.

It's a passion and value driven business. And if you don't have a deep passion for fitness and you open a new gym, you're gonna tank because you need to have that passion as to carry you through the first six months when you're in the red and when you're out there trying to drum up business and do the whole thing and work in 12 hours a day, not gonna happen.

So on the previous podcast I brought up the whole six finger digit. Oh, that probably call it. Yeah, so somebody actually sent me an article. I guess there's there's a player a defensive player linebacker for Kentucky who has six fingers in one hand and it's like fully you can fully articulate it and use it. And he says it is a bit of an advantage even to have. JJ Weaver, I think is his name, but I had never actually seen that in sports. Somebody had like six fingers because I keep thinking about that.

I think the biggest advantage would probably be in basketball. Wouldn't you think or please remember we speculate on this. I thought rock climbing would be a rock climbing. I'm sure that makes sense. Yeah. I would be rock climbing for sure. I'm wrestling. I would think arm wrestling because you have levered an extra one to last bit. Yeah, you have a crazy man. Just hooking in. So my question is if it's our if it articulates in everything, are they stronger?

I wonder if there's any studies on like a general grip strength or grip strength. I would imagine so because of the surface area and just the added bit of musculature that they could organize together in their hand. Here's another one extra question. And here's another question. What muscle flexes and extends that digit? Is it the same muscle? So in other words, is it tendon connected to the same muscle that operates the pinky?

Does it have its own? Yeah, I'd like to see the anatomy of it. I'm not too certain, but it looks natural too. It trips me out. I know when you showed the examples before, you have to really look, you have to count to go like, oh, shit, there's six on there, because at first glance, you can't really tell.

Yeah. Oh man. It's slapped in the face with one of those. You know, you just reminded me, I watched last night, have you guys seen this just popped up? I think it's pretty new on Netflix, the Alpenist, the Alpenist, ALP, NIS.

So it's the same. It's the same. It's the same people who did Don Wall, right? And it's like Alpine. Yeah, but Alpenist is actually like a term. So yeah, these clime, like like ice structures and glaciers. Yeah, like, yeah, so that's they did some of the craze ones. So there's there's a the wind when Tim Ferris interviewed what's the guy's name that did free solo.

I keep there it is right there Alex. Yeah, Hanuman. Hanuman Hanoh or something. I forget I forget his last name, right? So Alex was on on Tim Ferris years ago. So you can watch this now? Yeah, you can watch it now. You can watch it now. It was really good. It was really good.

And on Tim Ferris' show, Alex, he asked him, he says, well, who are you watching? Who do you think is, because Alex is considered the best to out there for as far as solo climbing? And he drops this kid's name, this he's considered like the best throughout there for as far as like solo climbing. And he drops this kid's name, kids 23 years old, and the stuff that he's scaling and doing is insane.

And this whole thing, they follow him for two years. I don't want to ruin the show because there's a lot that happens in it, but it's definitely worth a lot of work. Have you guys ever seen the video of, there's these two climbers, they're like ice climbers, and they're climbing a glacier. So it's a massive glacier, and they're scaling

one of the walls, and there's like a boat that's filming them. And then the glacier starts to tip. Oh my God. And one guy climbs around, and the other guy kind of gets trapped, and it fucking flips in the ocean. Have you guys seen it? He didn't, he was, apparently- He survived with it.

He survived? Yeah, he survived, everything was cool, but terrifying. Terrifying, to see, because glaciers, at some point, I've read that they'll do that. They'll flip or tip, and you ain't stopping that thing. This is, you know, no, no, no. That was a ton. So what's crazy about this kid is he goes after like,

case, so I guess there's, so you watch the whole thing? Yeah, watch the whole thing. And I don't want to share too much. I'll give you little things that's so impressive about what he does is like, there's like ice climbing, then there's rock climbing, then there's rock climbing, and there's different categories,

and he's chosen some of the most difficult mountains in the world that combine all three. So he's got to climb up the mountain with his different gear, that he's got to switch on the side of the mountain. So you're like spikes for his eyes, shoes, but you don't want to be carrying all these handles and spikes while you're trying to do rock.

So you've got to switch the shoes out and just pray. No, it's really hard. Don't pull up this video. He broke all kinds of records. This is what I've seen another one, but this one's pretty cool too. Look at this.

So this is an iceberg that flips on the people climbing it. Oh, okay, so it's short. It's not like, I thought. Oh, I mean, it's picture like it. It's a big ass, it's still a big ass glide glacier, right? Or or I skew in the ocean So I mean this thing is gonna be thousands of I'm sure I don't know thousands of pounds at least or if not more Maybe you can fast forward a little bit. This is the one though right here. This is one. Yeah, this is one

I saw this one too. So these guys float up to it right with their boat and they climb up on it And the guy you know that their buddy on the boat kind of floats away. And then the, yeah, he's like, see you later. Yeah, iceberg or whatever, decides to flip, dude. It's so, just like the whole thing starts to turn. Yeah, dude, watch. It's terrifying, bro. I was as big, but it's not that,

it's like a massive boulder size, basically on the top. Well, I mean, it's huge. No, under size basically on the top. Well, I mean it's huge. Now under below how far good they were scaling down right now that they already go to the top is that why is he going away? I know I do. This is the one. Oh, look at that. Oh, shit.

Oh, my god. Look at that dude. Oh, my god. Look at him drop the camera. Oh, shit. Yeah, no thanks dude. Wow. No thanks.

You know, they all have that same thing common though with the light. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, my god. Look at him, he drops a camera. Oh shit. Yeah, no thanks dude. Wow. No thanks. You have, you know, they all have that same thing in common though with the like, the, it's the connection to the frontal lobe or whatever, whatever, whatever like. They still feel.

Yeah, they need to do that. Like this kid had like, like severe ADHD and the only time. It's a dopamine. The only thing that makes him feel normal is, you know, hanging off the side of this game. You must extreme adrenaline driven activity. Yeah, but it's not extreme for adrenaline for them.

They're like, they talk about it's like it's normal. Yeah, like it's so calm and relaxing for them. Well, remember Alex, the guy Alex got to the top. So he finally free-sullowed that that's all. He's like, yay. Yeah, I did that. Yeah, he was like, you know what else? You know what else?

Did you guys ever watch the fight with Fedor, Fedor, Emilie Enko against, I think it was Randallman, whatever his first name was Randallman. And Randallman, this was pride. And Randallman gets behind them. And I swore to God, suplex, like jumps in the suit. So Randallman was this big, righted out wrestler. Jumps with the suplex, lands on Fedor's head, upside down, you're like, he a suit. So, Randerman was this big, right out wrestler. Jumps with a suplex and lands on Fedor's head,

upside down, he's dead. There's no way he survived that. Oh my God. And Fedor turns him around and then arm locks him and wins. And then he stands up in like typical Russian fighter stat, you know, fashion. He's like puts his hand up like, bro, I'd be doing backflips.

If I did that, it survived and beat someone. I'd be jumping out of the ring, you know, high five in my mom. It would be so interesting to see brain scans on all those athletes like that with that exact example. If it's a neurological thing that causes that, right? It's not their character.

It's more that the way their brain fires and operates is they don't get the same adrenaline rush as you or I would from something as simple as, well, they think is simple. You know what's funny is that? The evolutionary biologists talk about like these extreme behaviors, like, what's the benefit? Like, why would people, why would there be humans?

And it's usually males, males, typically, are the ones that typically fall in this category. That will do what most of us would consider crazy. Press is the potential of us humans. There's two, there's two, two parts of it. One, the reason why it's usually males is because we're expendable. So like a civilization, if it loses a good percentage of its females, they're screwed. Because a woman can only have one baby theoretically every nine months,

whereas one man can impregnate a whole bunch of women in nine months. So men are expendable. Challenge me. Yeah, so nature basically is taking experiments on men. And then also it's a good idea to throw out the occasional dude that's going to go, you know, don't go over that mountain over there. There's freaking saber truth lying. This is like, I'm going to go check it out. Steve will do it and he comes back like, everybody knows the Steve. There's a pile of freaking,

everybody's crazy. Yeah. It's pretty, speaking of human behavior, did you guys, I read an article with Elon Musk talking about immortality? Really interesting, he says that it's a bad idea for humans to live forever

because we tend to get set in our ways in our thought processes and we need a younger generation to come through to always challenge. Just rubbed it. Disrupted. The young lion to kind of kill you. Yeah, it made me think like,

what other issues you guys could you guys see with immortality? Because I think it would pose like the biggest psychological stress on us. Well, I'll be harder. Think of a purpose too. Like we have a window, right? So you have the, like when you have a purpose, you're like, I'll be harder to think of a purpose too. Like we have a window, right? So you have the, like when you have a purpose,

you're like, I wanna leave this, but part of my purpose is I wanna leave this legacy behind or I wanna make this impact while I'm here, but if you're always gonna be here, there's less of that drive for purpose. Like I'll get to it. I'll get to it the next 300 years. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, you think apathy would be a big part of that, right? I've been here done that, you know, and then that's the thing too, is you get older, you realize things are so cyclical. And you see all these things start to emerge and repeat itself. I think that would drive you crazy after a while. It's like the vampires in movies, you know?

Yeah. And the light just bored. Oh, dude, I live in my castle, I would. I wish you would have watched us. So what we do in the shadows, they had a like a new season when they dealt with this subject itself. One of the vampires was just like, you know, at that point, where you'd live so many centuries, that he started doing yoga,

and he started trying to get all like spiritual, he hadn't done that before, and it turned out that this was like a cult that was basically trying to turn him into a human, and then the leader was like eating everybody. Anyway, it was hilarious. What a great premise. Great writing in that show. Yeah.

Speaking of like skin that never gets older, Adam, I want you because this cracked me up. These are the kind of texts you don't ever think you'd get from your buddies. I want you to tell everybody, because you read it to me, I thought. Oh, what buddy Shane sent over to me. Yeah.

So you remember, just you remember Shane played for the New York Giants, right? Yeah. Being a came in here a year or two ago, whatever. Yeah, we worked with him. He shot some of our at-home mods with us. Yeah, yeah. So he reached out to me, like, I don't know, like two or three weeks ago. I actually want to talk about real estate.

So he's done with the NFL and they're now big time into real estate investing. And so, and he's got partners and he was really curious like how do we structure that and how does that all work? And so, we had a long old conversation about that. And then before he hang, we hung up, he was just like, oh, I wanted to ask you two about Caldera. What do you think about it during that time?

I said, dude, I absolutely love you. He said, no, I listen to every episode. So I hear you talk about it. He goes, what exactly are you, which one are you doing? So I sent them the three that I am using, right? I forget the names of all of them. The series, do you use the moisturizer too? The moisturizer and the...

When do you put the, okay, here's the question. Do you put the moisturizer on and then the serum? Or is the moisturizer at night serum in the day? So whatever, what's the cleanser is in my shower? So when I wash my face in the shower, I use the cleanser. When I get out of the shower, I put the moisturizer on. When I come to work, I use the serum. Oh, okay.

So I'm doing it right. That's kind of the order that I have. To be honest with you, I don't even know if that was what I was supposed to do or not that just seems like that. Looks like it's the right way to do it. That's the senior face look really nice. So, but anyways, I, he's like, he told me he's like, I have psoriasis too,

so he hears me talk about my psoriasis, and he goes, has it really helped you? And I'm like, no, absolutely, that was what sold me on the company before we even started working with them. So that was what, just two weeks ago, I got a text like two days ago, and he just told me, like, bro,

I literally woke up with the clearest skin I've ever had in my life. Oh, really? Oh, dude, he's, yeah, he's, I know. It's like, the out of the conversation ever. I know that's right. Two alpha dudes talking about their skin. I know that's when he told me I was like,

on the inside of that laughing. He just giggling. Yeah, absolutely. He's like, Adam's like, dude, look what my buddy said. Don't you dare share this on the podcast. Yeah, it's almost shout out to him. Is it working for you cool, bro? Yeah.

My skin looks amazing. Thanks, Adam, for all of your advice. I watched this little short documentary on skin. On that, it's on Netflix called Examined, I told you guys about. They have one on skin. Well, you've been really going to the rabbit hole on that one, huh?

Oh boy, some of them are good. I'm gonna say this though. Some of them inject, okay, if I irritate you, I don't care. They inject wokeness for no reason. So they'll be talking about a scientific topic. And then for whatever reason, they're gonna throw in like little woke, you know, calm and silly.

But you forgot about us over there. Speaking of skin, you know, did you know that it's racist? Whatever, I'm like, come on dude. I just learned about the skin, like stop. Lecture me on all this crap. Anyway, when they talked about skin, you know, what they were showing how skin works and what causes acne and the oils that your skin produces really fill in the cracks and prevent things from getting below the layer,

the top layer of your skin, which then can cause inflammation and infection. Constantly washing your skin with soap, gets rid of those oils and literally opens up these cracks. Yeah, so that bacteria and shit gets in there. And so, okay, so what do you gotta do? Well, if you wash your face, you wanna use an oil that is similar to the kind of oil and sebum

or whatever that your skin produces. So I think this one of the reasons why their oil is so damn good, because it's all natural. The pH, they did a very good job of making sure the pH was kind of matched skin. So when you put it on, this is why I have oily skin. Justin's got dry skin. Adam has psoriasis. We all use the same product and it helped all of us, right?

It's not like it made me oilier and it worked for you or vice versa. Well, it's funny because we'll go up to trekking and it's really dry there. Yeah. And you guys are always like, oh God, I'm so I'm normal. This is my environment. You know. I'm normal Laking everywhere the flakes falling off Who is the NFL player that went viral? Did you see that Justin his oh was not NFL it was Kevin Durant Look this up Doug you guys are laughing. I did was not NFL it was Kevin Durant look this up Doug you guys are laughing I did not see we're talking Kevin Durant

Dry ankle just that's all you got a Google like here to appeal in skin So it was so he normally wears like the you know the leggings underneath his basketball shorts He doesn't show his legs ever. Yeah, and I guess there was a gap like I don't know Maybe four to six inches between his sock and his leggings, and someone zoomed in and took a picture, and it went viral. Everybody was talking about it in the NBA. I'm like, yo bro, you fucking, you put the pants in the roof.

The picture's the right. See if you can picture the right. See if you can zoom. Oh, look at, it looks like sock, bro. It looks like a dancer. What the hell, it looks like a rhinoceros. That shit, this was just like, for elephants.

This season, and I totally forgot about that That would have made it for a good Caldera All right, look at how bad hell of bad right? Anyway, Justin I got I got I got an article. I think you'll absolutely love. Oh sweet I don't remember how I look this up. I looked up It times at the government experimented on its own citizens and there was something that you said. Yeah, okay, because I just sparked this.

I saw a video recently that just surfaced with Bill Clinton. Oh, that's what it was. Yeah, so he was addressing, I don't know what happened, like when this was, 1990s at some point, right? And he was talking about how people had been experimented on with injections of plutonium, unbeknownst to them. Like, you know, military people, like regular citizens

that the government had experimented on, and he was basically kind of apologizing on behalf of the government. So, so here trip off this, right? So I knew about, I'm gonna go through some of these, right? The first one they talk about, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments. Yes, I'm a familiar with that.

By the way, all the ones I'm gonna say right now have been acknowledged, and many of them the government actually apologized for. These are the ones that I'm not conspiracy. This is just education that you need to absorb. These are the ones we know of. So like, for example, the Tuskegee syphilis study began in 1932.

They took 600 African-American men and 400 of them had syphilis, the rest didn't. And they basically observed the people of syphilis. We had penicillin, we had ways of treating them. They gave them fake penicillin and just watched to see what the syphilis would do to their bodies. Meanwhile, though, telling them that we're treating them. Oh, terrible.

It's just awful. Terrible. Then there was a penitentiary malaria study. So the US government conducted the state ville penitentiary malaria study in the 1940s in Illinois. It involved 400 prisoners who were illegally infected with malaria and subjected to studies.

The goal was to test experimental drugs to find a cure for the disease. In addition, the test were administered and documented solely by the prisoners themselves. So they basically were doing it themselves according to what they were told to do. And this is again another experiment that we did. Then there's one that the Nate listen to this one the Navy sponsored beef blood transfusions So in 1942 the Navy had was the the Navy had contacted con so con Edward con is a biochemist who was working at Harvard to engage in the secret project to discover a possible Biological weapon his worked involved injecting prisoners with cow blood to detect a protein that could be used in the event of an upcoming war.

Oh my God. What was wrong there? The 64 subjects who were injected with the cow blood all suffered catastrophic effects including death. Then the plutonium testing. This was in the 1940s. They wanted to look at the effects of radiation. And so they gave patients doses of radioactive plutonium in the form of injections. And the majority of them were already terminated ill. So like, look at that anyway.

Let's just give them plutonium, see. And that's three. There's 10 that I have this article we'll post it in the show notes. Of real studies, the government did on people. And we wonder why some people are hesitant. Yeah, like, have some questions. Right? At public policies and things that are concerning

our health. Yeah, it's just questions, right? Like can we just talk about questions and be more transparent, bring more data to the table? These are just normal things. I think people should discuss. I think if you're historically speaking, you're, it's probably more wise to be like pause. Like wait, let me see what's going on here

because we know what the history is. What are the motivators? Yeah. And what's going on? Where's the money and what's going on right now? So I'll switch this from conspiracy theories over to Metaverse Talks, and so I'm gonna bring something I think every episode.

I think it's intertwined. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'll go for it. Related to this, do you guys see the whole thing with Quentin Tarantino getting sued by, I think it's, is it Miramax or one of the one of the production companies that are are suing him over the NFTs that he's making? No. Okay. So really interesting idea. And I believe that there's going to be Star Wars ones, Justin, that will, we'll follow this. So he took, I think seven pages out of pulp fiction

that never made it into the script and made NFTs out of it. Oh, that's cool. That's brilliant, right? And so the, but he's getting sued by the production because they own the rights to pulp fiction. But his case is that wasn't part of pulp fiction. These are what never made it. I sold you the script that you have that is,

and so I'm selling this individually. I didn't even think about that. Copyright laws, too. Our copyright laws and patents gonna cover. So in the future, they're going to, and they, some of them do already, depending on, I forget the wording, I was listening to this guy talk about it,

and like they are putting it in there that like anything related beyond created, like there's, there's, there's verbiage now to cover their tracks so they own everything, but you have some of these opportunities you think of like Star Wars, there's lots of characters that never made it into the movies, there's lots of spin-offs from the scripts

and so they're talking about making NFTs around that. I'd love to see what those pages had on me. You know what I watched the other day was Rocky IV but with new footage that was never included, Sylvester Stallone cut. It's cool if you're a huge fan. So I love that kind of stuff, right? I'd love to see, you know, what was...

I'd love to see, like, is the fan theory of Jar Jar Banks becoming a Sith Lord? Oh my God, I'd love to see that, I'd buy that. Was that true, or are you just making that up? Yeah, that's a real theory because of, you ever heard like drunken master. Yes. Yes. So, yeah, the kung fu movies where you have this sloppy drunken master who's just like, you know, is unassuming and they go to attack him and then he just does all these

crazy like drunken moves, but kicks their ass. Yeah. Oh, really? So it's sort of like along that vein of maybe he was the underestimated one that actually had like devious plot that they think that Lucas was gonna bring him back to be like sort of the ultimate evil Sith Lord. So he worked his way in acting like a dumb. Yeah, I just, ugh. You know, Drunken Master, the Drunken Kung Fu

is a real, I'm not mistaken. I've never heard of that. You never seen Drunken Style Kung Fu? Well, I mean, so I'm sure I've seen like a clippetite. They've protected like a drink from a, like a bottle. And then they use these circular kind of like weird movements that emulate being drunk. The meat drunk.

And it's hard to predict that's I guess the fighting style. Yeah. And it sort of, yeah, it takes the, the opponent off guard because they think they have like, this in the bag, you know, and the whole thing is that this is basically a technique that they're using to almost disarm their opponent. I watch so many Kung Fu movies when I was a kid. Me too.

I was always like, oh, it's Dragon Style versus, you know, Dragon Style. Oh, I love it. Did you do the voiceover dubs? Oh, my favorite part. I had no idea like Bruce Lee, I feel like some of his brain were like a geek at school at one point to I never

Actually, war Hey, hold on a second. I wore my Fourth grade like rolling up in his geek and so I got to school I can't talk to a shit because I tried to crane kick on somebody One time like a real like really tried it like you were like you were gonna fight him or you know like I was fucking around Yeah, I think of a deal. Yeah, but I wanted a man. I was like in a street fight and really tried to pull it off. That would be funny.

Oh, and actually hit him. Didn't Anderson Silva hit somebody in the face with a front kick? I mean, it wasn't a cringed. Randy Couture, yeah, he knocked him right in the face. He knocked him out. Come on, man. That was a front kick. Yeah, he did a front kick. That's the end part of the frame.

But it's basically, yeah, it looked like the same thing. I'm not gonna lie, I did wear my judo key for Halloween. Just go ahead. I dressed up as the thing I wear when I go to judo. It's like I really wanted to wear it to school, so I was trying to find a way out how I could do it. Oh, Halloween, that's it. I'll be me for Halloween.

Hold on a second, hold on a second. Did you ever dress up as a football player? All right, then, shut your mouth. Did you ever dress up like a basketball player? I dressed my son up this last Halloween as basketball player. Did you dress your son up? My son was me.

He probably has it the most important. I was trying to help you ever. Well, the member when we did that documentary or we played that rivalry football game. After that year, Ethan dressed up as me in my uniform and everything. I was like, oh, bro, your heart must have exploded. Yes, dude, it was like the best.

Oh, that's phenomenal, dude. That's phenomenal. I gotta tell you guys, so we're supposed to mention Paleo Valley and I gotta tell you guys, their bone broth protein, for me, digestibility is such a big deal. I can drink this stuff all day long

and it's like water. I can't do that with any other protein. So I've literally bumped my protein by like 80 grams, very easily, and I have no protein. I've made a chicken soup with it. Yeah, oh, it's interesting. I actually even have that for lunch, but yeah, delicious. Well, wait, so she used the base, right?

It's bomb broth. Yeah, it's added to water. It tasted perfect. Yeah, here's a deal. Well, you should do that. He just made that chicken soup on the Instagram add it to water. You did it up. It tasted perfect. Here's a deal. Well, you should do that. He just made that chicken soup on the Instagram last time you did your day in the life, right?

Yeah. I'm gonna do that next time. That's a good idea. I'm gonna try it out. If you look at the ingredients, this is what it says. Ingredients, bone broth. That's it. There's nothing.

Well, wait a minute. What a way to make your chicken, your chicken soup, like, be actually, because that's just that the soup's not normally that high in protein. I mean, anytime we make homemade chicken soup, we always put more chicken in it. So it's actually somewhat of a protein meal, but you do that with the bone broth,

and now you got yourself like a super-soonest. Now the broth doesn't taste, I mean, the powder doesn't taste like chicken though. It tastes like bone broth, if you added to water, heated up. It doesn't. We are imagining if you just mix it in with the chicken broth, I bet you wouldn't even notice it's even in there. Probably would blend really well.

It's getting in there. Such a mild taste to it. This is what Jessica makes the baby food for the baby when she adds like water or whatever. It's bone broth. I tell you this kid man, she's. Oh man. Yeah, we're gonna try and build a super app.

It's a good time. Yeah. Hey real quick, you gotta check out one of our partners, Zbiotics. They makes genetically modified probiotic drinks that are patented, that are designed to help you with the negative effects of alcohol. So here's how it works. You drink Zbiotics, then you go hang out with your friends, enjoy your alcohol. And the next day, you feel way better.

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Our first caller is Vanessa from Illinois. Hey, what's up Vanessa, how can we help you? Hi, first of all, I wanted to say hello to everybody and thank you for having me on. I love your podcast. Thank you. Hello. Hello, my question is, but first before I want to give

some context, I'm 27 years old, I'm a female. I'm five foot one and I weigh about 112 pounds. So I've been working out consistently for years and I've tried it all but I really love straight training the most. And not until last year did I really learn about nutrition and how to calculate my macros to reach my goals. This helped me lose those stubborn pounds dramatically, and I actually went from a consistent 118 pounds to a consistent 112 111. And I really feel like I look and I feel stronger and leaner.

So I started out by finding maintenance, which was about 1,800 calories, and then went into a deficit to 1500 calories, which resulted in that weight loss. And from this past August, until about the end of October, early November, I have been at a maintenance of 1800. But now, I really wanna focus on adding more muscle,

so I've been slowly creeping into a surplus since the beginning of November. So about every week I add about 50 or so calories. So I'm currently close to 2100 calories, and I have been feeling so stuffed from this. So I really want to add muscle. And I know that the only way by listening to your podcast is to be in that surplus. But my question is, is it really good to eat that much if I'm feeling

stuff just to hit my macros and my calories? Or should I just eat until I'm satisfied and not hit them? Yeah, it's a good question. Great question, Vanessa. Okay, so you're feeling stronger, you got leaner. You're not feeling very good by trying to force food into your mouth. What do you think my answer's gonna be? Why? Don't force it.

Yeah, that's 100%. Yeah, but you know what, this is a really good topic because I, or at least for me, I think my advice has changed over years with somebody like Totally. I think in the past, I would have probably told you, like, hey, if you want to build that muscle, you want to grow, we got to do this.

Get over it and just eat more. Yeah, and get over it, eat more. We got to keep pushing, we got to keep pushing. Where now I probably would make you reflect a little bit more on your goals and probably have a little more compassion on where you probably already are and how good you're good, how good you're already doing, and also one day of missing calorie goals is not going to set us back at all.

So I like this question because I know that my advice has changed in the years. Yeah, you're doing actually, and I want to say this, you're doing phenomenal. I mean, you're really doing phenomenal to be in this place. This is a good place to be because maintaining a lean body for you now is going to be relatively easy in the sense that you're not starving. That's really hard, right? When you're really hungry and you're like, oh my gosh, I can't eat anymore because I'm so hungry. But if really hard, right? When you're really hungry. And you're like, oh my gosh, I can't eat anymore because I'm so hungry, but if I do,

you're in the opposite position. We're like, oh, I can't eat anymore, but I want to gain more muscle. So here's my advice. My advice is going to be to manage that feeling so that you can put yourself in a position to gain more muscle because you want to gain more muscle. So there's a couple things I want you to focus on.

One is I want you to identify the foods that make you feel the most stuffed. The ones that are the hardest to eat, the most challenging to eat, maybe identify foods that might cause a little bit of blow or digestive issues, start replacing those foods with foods that are really easy to digest and foods that make you feel like you want to eat more. So choose foods that might be a little bit

more palatable, easier to digest. That'll help. And then here's the second part. You've been doing this since early November. You're already about a month and a half or so into this kind of, climbing the calories up and surplus deal. I think you should throw in maybe a week of maintenance or slight deficit. I love that idea, or even just a two day low calorie. If you're feeling like you're having to stuff and you're having a hard time hitting the 2,000 plus calories, nothing says you can't have two days in a row of,

hey, I'm gonna run two 1,500 calorie days and then watch what happens on day three, how you feel. Totally. And interrupting that bulk. And this is why we promote the, you know, mini cuts and many bulks where you don't really run in a calorie surplus longer than two to four weeks total before you go back the other direction. And you can either interrupt it with a week long cut,

like South Seng or even just a two day in a row of low calorie and watch how you feel by day three. You're gonna probably wanna eat those 2,000 plus calories. Yeah, one more thing Vanessa, one of the best signs of an effective strength training workout. Now it's not, this isn't foolproof, but it is a great sign,

typically, is that somebody's appetite will increase. So that oftentimes, that oftentimes, I'm not always, of course, because appetite can be connected to so many different things, including cravings and emotions. But oftentimes having a general increase in appetite means your body's trying to fuel some muscle growth, right? So my next

question is going to be, what kind of workout are you doing? Because your workout might not be sending the most effective muscle building signal, or maybe you need to change the workout. Are you following a MAPS program? Like what does your workout look like? I'm not following MAPS. I'm actually, have you ever heard of Sydney Cummings? Yeah, I do on YouTube. Yeah, I know Yeah, so I'm following her and she's like really helped me learn about nutrition and like proper form Which is so I've been with her for about a year sticking to her workouts. Okay, so and doing those about like five to six days a week What do those look like? Okay, we're in a corner Okay, we're doing five to six days of working out.

We have we have some stuff we could change. Yeah, break that down for the audience. Yeah Sure, so Sydney coming she posts workouts on YouTube every day and the workouts range from 30 to 60 minutes She'll do a lot of strength training, but when she does she times them So for example, you'll do one move for 45 seconds at a time. And now this is because she has to do it for a whole audience. So it's not like me really sitting there focusing on myself and how many reps I could do. I'm just kind of doing, like, for example,

deadlifts for 45 seconds at a time. And she kind of keeps you going. Right now, she has a program in the month of December where it's a combination of strength training and now she's including some more cardio. So for example, today I did 45 minute gluten legs AMRAP. So it was four minutes at a time, two different exercises. So for example, we did the first round was goblet squat for

10 reps and then deadlift for 10 reps. Well, you don't even have to go any further and we're going to be able to help you out. If our goal is to build muscle right now and you're also struggling to eat more calories, there's such an easy fix right here by changing your programming. Look, not trying to hate not anybody. Okay. I'm familiar with it. I'm familiar with these workouts. And for what the goals are that you have, actually for what most people's goals are. And again, not trying to hate anybody, but these workouts suck. They're not programmed well. It's basically a, you know, body part specific, hammer your body, follow me along, you'll get sore

type of workout. I don't even want to say suck with you, Sal, because here's the thing, it's probably helped you out this far to get to where you're at and you've done well. So I don't. It really happens. So yeah, so let's not say it's suck. Let's just say there's something way better for you now. Now we can perfectly transition you over to something that's very much more strength focused and you know we'll provide

that muscle building signal which will complement what you're doing nutritionally. So I'm really glad to sell brought that up because it is you know this is the other big component to you know you trying to now move more towards building muscle. Watch what happens when you follow Maps and a Bulk. We're gonna send that over to you for free. Yeah, it'll, Maps and a Bulk will blow your mind because you've been working out for, you know, about a year. I want you to do three foundational workouts a week because there's the option to do two or three.

So I want you to do three. And then on the other days, I want you to do three trigger sessions a day, each one lasts about eight to 10 minutes. You don't have to do those on the weekends, so it's just Tuesday and Thursday essentially. So Monday, Wednesday, Friday would be the foundational workouts, Tuesday, Thursday, trigger sessions.

If you want, you could do trigger sessions on Saturday and Sunday as well. But it will blow your, for what your goals are, you just wait, do it for three weeks, and you're gonna be like, holy cow, this is completely different. Also watch what happens to your appetite, because you're gonna send a much louder muscle building

signal by following a program like this, and your appetite will naturally start to reflect that, and you'll just be able to easily eat the higher calorie. Watch what happens, so you're actually in a beautiful position. You've gotten great results following a routine like this that I think is inferior to what you're trying to do. You've got great results from it.

You've built a great physique. You want the next level. You want to continue building muscle. Maps and a bulk is a much better protocol for what you're trying to do. Simply follow that and then watch what happens. I'm excited for you Vanessa. Well, I'm so excited.

Wow, this has helped me so much. I just like, it changed my perspective and a lot of things, which is what I was looking for. So I really, really appreciate all this help. Yeah, perfect. We'll send that over to you. And then you know what else I want to do? Is I want you in our forum because I'm really interested

to see how you feel about how your body starts to change and how you're doing. I can't wait to report on it. Yeah, it's totally different. Yeah, and selfishly, I'd love to share, I'd like to share your progress with the rest of the forum because I know what's gonna happen. If you've already feeling the way you are now, just wait till you follow like really well-programmed

resistance training, it's gonna be night and day for you. So we'll send that to you and we're gonna send you free access to the forum. I'd love for you to post in there and introduce yourself, tag the three of us, and then let us know how everything's working. Absolutely. Wow. Thank you so much. No problem Vanessa. Thanks for calling. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Thank you. Oh my God. So glad you asked that question. Yeah. You know what my we were all we were all hovering around just the nutrition portion of this.

You're doing well nutritionally. I mean, her whole strategy was like, you know, you don't get that a lot. So that was like, wow, you know, that's, that's great to hear. I know, I'll tell you what, selfishly as a trainer and even now, some of my favorite people to help. And again, this is selfish is when I see somebody who's progressing in spite of

the fact that they're totally a program that isn't very good. And I say, oh my gosh, if you're making progress now, I can't even imagine what's going to happen when we actually put good programming. And these are the people that tend to blow the bell curve out, right? You start to see like crazy. This is acceleration of progress. But there are also some of the hardest people to reach because they've had success in spite of what they were doing.

Yeah, it's been, it's why she called, right? That's why I wanted to point out that like, okay, I don't wanna say suck because if you say that to somebody who you, who arguably might be in the best shape of their life. So you'll turn them off and they'll be like, well, I got all this results. Right, and I don't know this, I don't know this girl personally, right?

So the YouTube star that she's following who may have gave unlocks some things for her that completely opened new doors and changed her life. And who are we, let's say she just found Mind Pump him. She's only listened to two or three episodes of ours, but she's followed this girl's journey for the last two years, who's completely helped her. I was telling her that that program sucks. May turn her off to continuing on with what we want her to do, which is a superior program.

Guaranteed, Doug pulled up what she's been following, and for someone who's trying to build muscle, it is literally the opposite of what I would want her training. She would not be training five to six days a week, an AMRAP, circuit-based, no-rest periods, 45 minutes straight of doing, absolutely opposite of what she should be doing. And if she just tweaks that,

the watch would happen with her appetite in her diet. It'll all fall right in the closet. By the way, you know what this, this Doug was like this. Doug was a client that came to me and was fit. Following YouTube stars and things. No, YouTube stars, Libby Pump classes. Back in my day, there was my day. I knew it.

I knew you were doing those booty pump classes on YouTube. I have a nice butt. Right? They sourced, slinging them VHS tapes. Yeah, we got to post the picture. No, but he came and he was fit and do and okay, in spite of the bad workouts you saw.

Right. The second he followed good programming, he went from thinking he was a hard gainer to hitting numbers and strength gains and muscle gains that, you know, he realized like, oh wow, I got some real genetic potential here. So I think that's what's going to happen to Vanessa. Our next caller is Michelle from New Jersey.

Hey Michelle, how can we help you? Hey, so thank you all, Gar, thank you all so much for all of your content. I love you guys. I listen to you all the time. So this one to say thank you for everything that you do. My question is more so for me as a newbie personal trainer. I have been a personal trainer for about a year now, but I actually have to take a pause on personal training because I am performing in a Broadway show in New York City right now. But this is more so for my husband and just learning your techniques and what you got, what your philosophy is. So my husband is the complete opposite of me. He is 63. He is 33. He weighs about 175, 200, 200,

can't get up to 180 pounds. Mary tall, very lean, skinny, and he used to run a lot of the Marathons back in the day. Now we don't run any Marathons anymore. I never really remember Marathons, but he doesn't run any Marathons. We're strictly into strength training and building muscle. So we got into weightlifting by listening or watching, sorry, by reading my math,

the bigger leader stronger, the bigger leader stronger, and now we had just purchased, he had just purchased Maps at Obolic. And I am looking at that and kind of comparing the two and trying to see what your philosophy is based off of anabolic with versus BLS. I know in BLS there's a lot of big compound movement, two to three minute rest in between, focusing on those major muscle groups. But when I look at maps in a ballic, I feel like there's a lot of trigger sessions. The first three weeks is focusing on more, it seems as though for me more endurance because

it's less respiriance hitting more muscle groups. You're in the gym more five times a week and I am curious on what you all's thoughts are on versus the two and trying to find a happy medium for my husband and also I'm learning at that same time. And I also have a bodybuilding coach that I work with for potential to do a show by the end of this time next year. And his theories

of like only training two times in a row, no training back to back, tempo training, blah, blah, blah. So I'm just trying to find a happy medium with my husband. And he's like, what should I do So I'm just trying to find a happy medium with my husband. And he's like, what should I do? I have something to eat. So I'll give you the short in the long of it. Here's a short, have them follow maps in a ball. It'll blow away pretty much any of the other programs, especially for someone like him.

Now, here's some of the differences. Mike Matthews, very smart guy, great friend of ours. He follows the science very, very well. So he, and this is what he does very well. He looks at the studies. he makes sense of the studies, and then his workouts are based off of scientific research. Now, maps programs all of, also follow the scientific research. However, they are also written by three trainers

who trained for over two decades and worked with lots of people. So let me give you a comparison or a difference, right? With bigger leaner stronger, and if we compare that to a MAPS and a BOLIC, once you get past pre-phase, with MAPS and a BOLIC, you're hitting the whole body three days a week,

with bigger leaner stronger, it's more like two days a week, it's a little bit more of a split, and bigger leaner stronger, less of a split, more full body, and MAPS and a BOLIC. Why the difference? Well, here's why. If you train a body part two days versus three days a split, more full body, and maps that are like, why the difference? Well, here's why.

If you train a body part two days versus three days a week, but the volume is the same and the intensity's roughly similar, studies will show that the gains are gonna be right around the same. However, what we understand as coaches and trainers is, the more often you can practice certain lifts, the better you get at them, and the faster you get at them.

So in other words, rather than doing, let's say, you know, 20 sets for your legs twice a week where you're doing 10 sets on workout, one workout, and 10 sets on another workout, what if we did 20 sets over three workouts? Even if the gains look similar in the studies, we know through experience, working out your legs, practicing squats, front squats, lunges,

more frequently, tends to produce better movement patterns. You tend to get better at those movements faster. The strength gains, and this is what the literature will support, the strength gains tend to be superior because strength is skill, just as much as it is bigger muscles. As far as rest periods are concerned, they compare, when you look at studies that compare long rest periods to short rest periods head to head, it's true that long rest periods build more muscle, but here's where people mess up. All the rest periods within reason still build muscle and your body will adapt to a particular rest period if you stick to it all

the time, meaning if you do something novel, like go from three minutes to a minute and a half, you start to get the ball rolling again. So what you find with maps and a ballic is this phasing of rest periods where it goes some of them along like phase one and phase three, the rest periods are much shorter. And then lastly, I'll touch on trigger sessions. Trigger sessions are not the same as workouts. Trigger sessions are literally like, you're getting a little bit of a pump a few days a week on your off days.

It's not a workout. It's active recovery. Yeah, and it's sending. It's not cardiovascular. And it's maintaining the muscle building signal you sent the day before. The day before is your hard workout. But what happens is you send this the muscle building signal you sent the day before. The day before is your hard workout. But what happens is you send this loud muscle building signal

with your hard workout, and it peaks at about 24 to 48 hours. We've studied this through what's called muscle protein synthesis. And then it starts to decline very quickly. If you do some trigger sessions, which they're not like workouts, you're not tearing muscle down, you're not doing that, but you're getting a bit of a pump, what you do is you're keeping that muscle building signal up higher for longer. This is why you'll notice that male carriers who don't go to the gym and do hard calf

workouts, all they do is walk a lot, they still have muscular calves. They're not doing any bodybuilding, but you still see muscle being built in their calves or mechanics in their forearms. They're not at the gym doing forearm workouts with barbells and dumbbells, but you still see muscle being built in their calves or mechanics and their forearms. They're not at the gym doing forearm workouts with barbells and dumbbells, but for some reason, they've got strong muscular forearms. Trigger sessions still provide that value, and so putting those on the off days,

turbocharges the rest of the workout, and that's really what makes maps and aballions so special. There's also one more thing that you're missing that I think is one of the most valuable things and one of the things that attracted me to Working with you guys when I when we first looked at maps and a ballock before my pump even started is if I have 10 clients That are training with me for the next three months Of those 10 clients maybe one or two of them never miss a week for the entire three months

one or two of them never miss a week for the entire three months. Most of them life happens in a week they take off or they might have a bad week of training where they only get in the gym once or twice. I know when I'm training them on a full body routine like Maps and Obolic, they're not going to have as much of a setback if they missed one or two days training because they're still hitting a full body workout. This is the biggest flaw with body part splits. Not that they're not effective, not that it doesn't follow the science, is that it's missing the behavioral component,

which is where the experience comes in with the three of us who have trained thousands of people over the last two decades, is I know behaviors, and I know that it's inevitable, including myself, I'm gonna have a week where I don't train as frequently, and when I have a full body routine, I hit every muscle group still, even when I only trained one day that week.

And when you're talking about long-term gains and maintaining a physique, that person is better off. That's why we know it's superior for most people. Does it mean that if somebody never misses a workout and they train splits for three, four, six months, that they won't have similar results? No, if you don't ever miss a workout and you're consistent as hell, then that's not bad,

but we also wrote programs considering people's behaviors. Yeah, Michelle, you said you're going to become, you're becoming a personal trainer. I have my personal trainer certification. I've been certified for a year through ACE. Okay. But I am on a Broadway show right now performing. I do about eight shows a week with that.

Doing the personal training and doing that at the same time is really different. So if you really want to, this is what I advise to you, to really learn programming, because you're not going to get all the information from Maps at Obolic. Maps at Obolic is a piece of the bigger picture. In fact, what we recommend to people often is they follow our Maps programs kind of one after another.

So you know, Maps and Obolic for a few months, then you can go to Maps Performance and then Maps aesthetic and then maybe Maps Strong, training these different modalities, different phases, different exercises, really develops a well-rounded, strong, functional body, and long-term you get great results. So I recommend you do that, kind of look at all of our programs, you can got to get a better idea,

you're not gonna get all the answers from Maps and Obolic. And then here's the other thing, the most valuable program that we have for you as a trainer is Maps, Prime, and Prime Pro, by far. None of our programs are have for you as a trainer is Maps Prime and Prime Pro. By far, none of our programs are going to benefit you as a coach, training other people like those two programs. By far, I mean, you take those two programs, you apply some of the principles to your clients,

you'll blow away 99% of the trainers that are out there. I'm telling you right now. So it's not, you'll learn from maps and aballocals, those programs, but it's prime and prime pro. So if you don't have those, I'm going to send those to you because I really want you right now. So it's not, you'll learn from maps and a ball because those programs, but it's prime and prime pro. So if you don't have those, I'm going to send those to you because I really want you. Thank you. We really value trainers and coaches. And I think that's something that you'll gain value from.

And then as far as your husband is concerned, go maps and a ball like three foundational workouts a week, trigger sessions on the off days. Of course, make sure he feeds his body. And then watch what happens. Watch the strength and muscle gains. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Definitely. He sees my muscle gains and he's like, why don't I get games like that? I'm like, well, you don't eat enough protein. You don't eat enough protein. You don't eat enough protein. And I'm like,

you're going to eat completely way more. I'm like, five, three, you're five, you're six, two, like, what do you think? So he's never wants to eat anymore food. I'm like, you need to eat more, boy. Well, you're, and that's true though, too, right there. Meshive, she, if he's not, if he's not getting enough calories and protein, he could be following the best program in the world. And he's not going to see a lot of muscle gain. So make sure he stays on top of that. If he's hitting his protein and taking, hitting his calories, following maps and a ball, it will blow his mind.

By the way, what brought, if you can I ask what Broadway show you're going to be a part of? Yeah, I am in Tina, the Tina Turner musical in New York City. Oh, that's great. Very cool. You know, I've never been to a Broadway show. That's like one of my dreams. One of my dreams. I love shows, but you know, I've only watched some of the Bay Area in comparison. I know we suck.

So you guys in Santa Jose, right? We are. I played Santa Jose with Aladdin, the musical in 2000. Oh, no way. So 2019, I was there. Yeah, we were there for six weeks. Oh, good deal. That's excellent.

So do you come to the West Coast very often? How often you come out this way? I get out there probably once a year and perform shows. Yep. Depending on if I'm on tour right now, I'm in a standing steady show. So the show is like just in New York City, but sometimes I go on tour and we will do all the whole North America. Michelle, we know how to take care of friends.

So next time you're out in this area, if you hook us up with some tickets, maybe we'll hook you up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now that I know you like theater, that makes sense. So we got it. I'm getting time to hook up. 100%.

Thank you, Michelle. We'll send you Prime and Prime Pro, OK? As a trainer, I think those are going to really, really provide some tremendous value to you. Awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it all the insight. And I definitely want to be a better trainer.

So this is really, really helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Yeah, I think when you compile a better trainer. So this is really, really helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. You're a problem. Yeah, I think when you compile a routine based off of the studies, you're a lot of the way there, right? If you look at the scientific.

Well, that's why we like Mike so much. This is what all of, I mean, we didn't even know who Mike Matthews was when we first started MindPump. And I forget who first introduced us to him, but when we got introduced to him. We'll Doug, Doug knew him first showed me and then we were following him. Is that why you found him from like e-commerce stuff?

Is that why you were marketing? Yeah, I've been following him for quite a long time. Because Mike is actually a marketing background who is kind of like a nerd like us when he gets interested in something he goes super deep. Oh, he's hyper intelligent. Yeah, and so he went super deep on fitness and you know, you could tell the guys read a ton of studies because the way he has built his programming, but the one thing that I, the one edge, okay,

and I would tell Mike this to his face, he's a friend of ours that I think that we have on him is that we actually trained in person people for two decades, thousand plus people between the three of us, and there's one more component to the science component. And that's the behavioral aspect of it. And you just have, if you're, if you're desired outcome as a trainer is to get your client

the most results possible, you exactly application and behaviors matters. And you have to factor that component in. And that's why we can't just purely follow the science. Yes, the science should be the foundation, but then we're not all in a six month study, you know, or six week study. Like, that's not how people interact and really... 100% and not only that, I'll take it a step further.

There are no controlled one year, two year, three year long studies. Maybe observational where they ask questions and do surveys, but nothing control. When they compare rep ranges, for example, it's like 27, you know, college aged males showing up at a gym, training with researchers for three months. Like I trained people for two years, three years, five, nine years, ten years. So I see that long res periods, do build more muscle. I also see that after four months, they don't. We got to move to the shorter res periods. I see that long rest periods, do build more muscle. I also see that after four

months, they don't. We got to move to the shorter rest periods. I see that, yes, we could do a body part split and that's going to work just fine. But guess what? Over the course of a year, you're going to miss some workouts, like you said. Well, now we're missing whole body parts. Right. If we do full body, I also see that when I practice, if I get you to practice squats a few days a week, it's better than if we practice it one day a week. Even if the volume is exactly the same and the studies show that the results from that perspective are the same. So when you add both of those together, what you get is really, really effective workout program. That's the bottom line.

Yeah, you know, you always miss the opportunity to shamelessly plug your book. I feel like that would have been the direction to give for other than going, I mean, yes, buying all the programs would be great for the business and all. But I think that your book does a really good job of explaining the philosophy behind maps. And I think that anybody who's curious, because this is a question that we get quite a bit, if you get, if you're curious to the philosophy behind maps and why we program and why we write the programs the way we do, then you have to you have to read resistance training

revolution. Our next caller is Brian from California. Hey, what's up Brian? How can we help you? How's it going guys? I am a 40 year old strength of conditioning coach, football coach and a high school teacher. And instead of asking a question for myself, I figured I'd ask you guys a question regarding my program. Currently, I am an on the field coach, but I'm transitioning to the Strength Conditioning Program. And because the COVID year and the community that I work in, our players don't have the best weightlifting background. And so what I've tried to do is implement all the principles that you guys have

incorporated throughout your guys programs and implemented into our strength and conditioning program and I submitted my work on plan to you guys and I wanted to see if you guys had any tweaks or suggestions on on how we can actually improve or things that you think might be able to be added to it. Wait a second you went you went 10 and 0 in the regular season? Yes, we went 10 and 0 in the regular season. Oh, shit.

We're looking at your question right now. Do you mind if I read off some of the stuff that you wrote just so the audience knows? Yeah, knock it out. Okay, so it says here that you're having the boys go to the gym, the weight room, excuse me, three days a week. They do one priming exercise per zone. So that's three, three movements, one for the upper, middle part of the body, and then the lower body.

Then after that, the boys go to the racks, there's 12 racks, 12 platforms, it's a nice school gym, by the way. There's two kids per rack and two per platform. And there's four exercises assigned. So essentially the whole workout besides the priming is about four exercises. And then halfway through, they switch, you go platform to rack and then vice versa. And you're taking from maps and a ball,

maps performance and maps aesthetic. Shout, I like where you're going. Yeah, is that pretty, did I cover that pretty well? Yeah, you're not that pretty well. The only thing is there's actually eight exercises for in each location. So they'll go for in the rack and then half the period

and then switch to for and the platform. Okay, and now I'd love to hear what Justin, this is his, totally his wheelhouse and his expertise is superior on this. Well, okay, so I'm trying to kind of rack my brain around. What were your difficulties with your kids? Because I know for me, the biggest difficulty was establishing proper forms and mechanics

because I just felt like they didn't have any kind of, there wasn't a whole lot of education provided previous to that in terms of, you know, a backloaded squat, dead lifts, you know, bench press. And so for me, I was scrambling to try and establish like proper form and really reduce it down to, you know, the bare minimum in terms of what I had them focus on. So with that in mind, I've actually been doing quite a bit of this and thinking about how to construct

a good off-season program and training. And one of the things that I love how you're bringing up the priming zones and you're addressing that before we even get into the workouts because I think that's essential. And a lot of coaches just kind of breeze over a lot of like the kind of breeze over a lot of the actual quality of their movements and their capability of providing that kind of stability and structure with

their joints. And so for me, I wanted to kind of maybe address it more from a lateral perspective in the beginning and make sure that I was addressing the imbalances, going through a phase of that, and then picking that momentum up and then going back into bilateral type of lifts like you're describing here. So I guess my question to you is how good do you feel their mechanics are currently? Well, what are the eight exercises, first of all, because maybe he's doing a Bulgarian squad in there. What are you doing? So actually, I attached to you guys, but we did it. There's three phases into it. So like what I've done is I planned out from January all the way through in season. So what we're looking at is we're doing all

of the major lifts. But depending on the phase, we phase into some unit or a lot of all stuff and some multi-planar stuff, just because one of the things that I figured out with you guys and when I went through performance myself I noticed that I was really strong in one plan but I get into another plan and I would really struggle with that and so that incorporating the multi-planar stuff and the priming stuff was one of the key things our big issue was our boys weren't very mobile and we had built a pretty good strength base with our head coach, but our problem was, you know, COVID and everything

else has gone on in the lockdowns. Yeah. A lot of our kids that are coming in, having played or haven't worked out in quite a while. And so that was one of the big things that we found before in the season this year. Yeah, that's good to know because I'm glad you guys were able to establish good strength. I felt like we did a terrible job of that and I kind of came in mid Mid-go in terms of our off-season training and so my big focus is to eliminate a lot of the cardiovascular Endurance type training and just focus on the strength and and get as far as we can you know up leading into You know hell week in a sense because that's one of those conditioning is sort of that button that coaches always want to hit,

because it's difficult, it provides that mental discipline, and this is sort of what a lot of coaches tend to throttle down on when what's going to provide longevity and performance on the field is the strength that we're going to be able to apply. So if you're mind all kind of break down what I'm're going to be able to apply. So, you know, so if you're, if you don't mind, I'll kind of break down what I'm basically going to be doing with, with this team and see if it applies to your guys, but we're going to be focusing primarily on unilateral training.

We're going to build that into like a five by five type of situation. We're working on, you know, five to seven core lifts and we're going to master those lifts. We're going to kind of transition from that to more of a maps in a ballack where we're just focusing on building up that muscle and size and add in a bit of hypertrophy. I'm going to drag that then into transition to more of a maps performance where we're going to get into actually that multiplayer type of movement and strength. And then, I'm going to string that out all the way up until then, the very last peak is we're going to be in our conditioning phase

and we're going to be doing more speed power and skill training in conjunction with that. So one of the things that I want to make sure that I establish is the skill on the field. And so less on the conditioning, more on the quality of the movement. So explosive movement, running their passing trees, like having like each group. So whether you're a lineman,

you have very specific drills that you're running on the field. Like say on our, if Maps and Obolic is our example, we're gonna be doing that during our trigger session type days. So, you know, like I mean on the field, just working and drilling their skill, and then also applying the rubber band workouts, full body workouts to then help to establish

that recovery, active recovery. And then we're gonna jump back into our foundational type lifts. So I'm sort of like pairing those together a cover reactive recovery, and then we're going to jump back into our foundational type lifts. So, I'm sort of like pairing those together and then using our program as the baseline, but then implementing. And so, one other thing to kind of, you know, sum this up as well, deadlifting for me, I find valuable, I find a lot of value in a trap bar deadlifts with this particular group because it's less

technical and it's less cues. I have to make sure I establish ahead of time, but also the kids can just pick it up and really build upon that foundational strength. It's something like that risk versus reward thing. I'm always playing with that to see which one has the most value. And so like even power cleans is something I'm sort of subbing out for things like heavy kettlebell swings and also like trap bar type of a clean. So just just things to consider in terms of like what where your athletes are at with their education, their background, their skill, and then what you can establish in that window

leading back into the season. So Justin, I wanna back you up to when you talked about, so let's look at this as at like a, at least a rough time frame. What are you talking about? When you said unilateral training, are you doing that for a couple of weeks leading into MAPS and what are you doing that for three months?

Like how long are you focusing on unilateral before you move them into maps and a ballic and then into performance and how much of a time window does he need? Yeah, it's about a month, month and a half. We're focusing on unilateral training and then leading into the five by five, which we're gonna run then for the next, like,

you know, two months leading into the maps and a ballic, which we're then we're gonna establish that and go through that entire progression, which then leads into maps performance. And so I might actually repeat one or two phases of say maps and a ball or maps performance, depending on the timing of that leading into the end of the off season.

So that's what I'm kind of constructing and drawing up. So essentially at least a month of unilateral type training. At least a month and and and too. This is good because after season, you know, the players are beat up. And if we just jump right into to strength training and we're building upon, you know, some of these these this functions and we're not addressing them specifically. That's a good point. You know, that's something that is going to, you know, and we're not addressing them specifically. That's something that is gonna, we're gonna lead into bad patterns that we're gonna deal with later on. So I wanna really like, hyper focus on those, and it's not as cool and sexy to get into that, because the kids really wanna just build muscle around.

Yeah, and one thing I wanna comment on, Brian, is especially when you're working with you know high school kids Form is everything so they may want to push themselves add more weight You see a slight breakdown in form. No go lighter. I want you form to be perfect because The strength that they're that they're going to build with good technique and good firing patterns is going to translate more To the field than even more strength gains with crappy form, right? So focus on the form at all times. That's got to be the number because it's very easy for it to get away from you, especially when you're dealing with high school kids and there's a bunch of guys in the gym and they

want to push and they want to lift harder and they, oh my god, I can add 10 pounds if I just tweak my form a little bit. Like, you got to be really, really strict with the form because that's gonna give them such bigger dividends than just pushing the weight. I mean, I just want to comment that I think you're doing a hell of a job. I think what you built is a pretty goddamn good foundation.

I think the only thing that I would contribute is the two things that I heard Justin say that sounds different than what you're doing is probably starting the beginning of their weight training with unilateral stuff. The tribute is the two things that I heard Justin say that sounds different than what you're doing is Probably starting the beginning of their weight training with unilateral stuff So, you know, you pick your four to eight, you know, biggest bang for the buck type of unilateral movements to start This with and then incorporating some of the like on field type of movements like you know running their their routes and stuff that that explosive training in there other than that I really like the direction that you're going, maybe just put a little bit of focus

on unilateral that started off. And I think what you're doing is a great job. Brian, is it okay if you let us know what high school this is? Because I mean, 10 to no, that's pretty phenomenal. Yeah, I teach at Bowling Park High School and Southern California. Oh, good deal. All right, shout out to those, to you guys out there.

Do you have access to maps prime and a Balic Performance aesthetic. Are you in our forum? Yeah, I have pretty much everything you guys have done. I've been listening since episode 25. Oh Okay, hey, please. That's why this program. It looks so good. Yeah. Well, we got a new one coming out. I'm not gonna completely give it away But that's something that I do want you to use because I'm going to be using it with my athletes as well. And we'll keep you informed with that. Well, why don't you learn information? Why don't we do something special for him, Brian? Why

don't you email Justin personally and maybe he can give you a peek at that before anybody else gets to see. You'll be my beta tester. How about that? You got to be promised not to share it with anybody, okay? I'm all for it. I won't share it. And just to touch on the unilateral and the on the field stuff, I'm actually using the performance mobility days. Beautiful. The two days that were not lifting to start in January and actually since the beginning of November,

we've been going over Technic and Forum with PVC pipe just because I know any breakdown informed. I knew you were smart. Yeah, dude, you're on the right path. Brian, I love hearing this from a strength and conditioning coach for a high school. That's phenomenal. I appreciate it guys. You guys have drastically improved my life as well as the people around me. And now I'm hoping to impart that to my players and my students.

Thank you so much. Brian, send an email over to Jerry who organizes these questions for us and just let her know that Justin was going to follow up with you regarding the new program. I'd love to share notes with you as well, man. You're doing great things. For sure. I really appreciate it, guys. All right, brother.

Thank you. That's great. That's cool. Yeah. Well, I don't know. High school strength coaches or high school coaches in general, sometimes I think at a bad rap and I understand why I've seen some of the work outs and the programming. I love hearing this though.

This is excellent. These kids are getting into their disc. In their disc. In their disc. In their disc. In their disc. In their disc. In their disc. In their disc.

In their disc. In their disc. In their disc. In their disc. In their disc. most all or not all, but most, unless you're going to some private high school, it's got the money or Volunteer dads and they fall back on what they did. That's right back in 80s. Yeah, so it's changed a lot. So it's where you get a guy like this who's actually probably pretty damn qualified Yeah, to be helping these or get a Justin who's out there on the field. You're not getting like that kind of background It's just so it's tough for high school. And you know what, you're laying the foundation for these kids. So you could argue that it's probably one of the most important time for them to get really good advice from a coach or a trainer.

So I think he's, I think for the most part, in the after hearing what he just said right now, I mean, he's really addressing the main concern of the unilateral was, you know, you're coming off this offseason, you're not doing any, you're not doing anything of all these bad patterns, you have bad movements, but I mean, if he's incorporating stuff from performance on mobility today, he's working with PVC pipes to get technique down. He's peering into it, he's looking into all the dysfunction and addressing it right away. So that was my biggest concern and that's why, you know, I mentioned that, it was really

because it's a way to be able to see that, you know, with a larger group of kids pretty, pretty visibly. Yeah, and the challenge was training, especially boys in this age group, their bodies, all of a sudden have all this testosterone. They don't have years of wear and tear on their bodies. They recover very quickly. The strength gains you make when you're 16, 17, 18 happen anyway. You take a 15 year old and have him do nothing and a year later he's way stronger.

So you turbocharged that with resistance training but the challenge is making sure to direct it in the right place and have, because I know, like I said, I've trained these kids and it's really easy, even for an experienced trainer to be like, oh cool, we can add 10 pounds. Oh cool, you can do it. Wow, you hit a new PR and let the form go off

by a couple degrees. Like, that's the challenge. The challenge is, it's like growing a plant that's growing real fast. Let's make sure it grows straight before we allow it to just go crazy because you're right, you're setting the foundation. This is what sets everything up in the future.

Our next caller is Jennifer from Massachusetts. Hey Jennifer, how can we help you? Hey guys, I am really grateful for you taking the time for my call. I really appreciate it. Sal, can I say one thing to you before we get started? Yeah, let's, yeah, let me hear it. Can you please tell Jessica that I completely relate to her? I am celebrating 10 years of marriage to my 100% Sicilian husband.

So when we go to family functions, I've never had to kiss so many people hello and goodbye in my entire life. Half of the time I don't know people, but we always have to say hello and goodbye to everyone which takes just about as much time as the whole event. I think. Lots of noises. Is everybody eating you? Isn't it you and I just talking about this off air? Like, when they like two days ago, Sal and I were talking about this off air because Katrina's

family is much like his family. And it was like, and I'm the opposite. Our, our family doesn't see each other at all. And so it took me years to get used to that, saying hi and goodbye and making sure I get every person at the party regardless if I know who they are or not. Hey, but I tell you what, man, if you need family, you got a lot of people there. This is true. This is true. I probably had it.

100% It's worth it. It's worth it. It's worth it. So congratulations. You married one. Oh, he's wonderful. He's doing the mine pumps programs as well.

All right. So what's your question? How can we help you? So my question, I was going to give you a little bit of backstory. I always suffered with the scale, food issues, typical female stuff. I'd run around my backyard trying to burn 300 calories in a workout because I thought, you know, that was what I needed to do. About a year ago, I found you guys which totally opened my eyes, which thank you. I just listened to you. I've been to every episode. I started researching, doing a ton of work on myself. And you guys really just taught me how food is great for your body, how to fuel my body, how to use the scale. So right now I am in an awesome place. You guys helped me get there.

So I'm a 45 year old blessed stay at home mom. And I am just really happy where I'm at. I love my fitness routine. I just started anabolic advanced at home version, which thank you for making those programs available at home. I walk my dog three to four miles a day. I do yoga a couple times here and there. I make sure that I do 20 minutes of mobility and stretching a day. I take my recovery

really seriously. I track my sleep. I'm just really comfortable where I'm at. My maintenance calories is 2600 calories. I'm 5, 839 pounds, 23% body fat. Um, and I just want to know, like, is it okay to stay here? Or do I have to go? Hell yes. You're questioning. You know, the all of us are right. Do you need follow us over here?

Like shaking our head is like, where's the question? I have a question. She can. Where's the here in a beautiful place, right? Okay. So in here's the, here's the beauty of where you're at. Forget the fact that you're obviously lean, you're fit, you look amazing, you're consistent, you feel good.

Forget that for a second. Do you enjoy your workouts? I love them. I'm loving Annabelle. So it took me a hot minute to get to switch over to your programs. I was following a YouTube trainer. Don't give me shit, please. But I, so I'm doing anabolic now. I love it.

And for, for a mom, those three-minute rest periods are phenomenal. Do you know what I can get done in those three-minute rest periods? They're awesome. Yeah, thanks. I'm feeling strong. I'm feeling great. I just didn't know.

Do I ever, do I have to go into a cut in a book sometimes to stimulate my metabolism? Like I know how to do it. You guys have taught me like if I, I know if I went down to 20% body fat, I'd see those, see the abs that everybody wants. You are, I did no six pack. I'm done two cycles of that.

I've seen strength in my core. I mean, my husband finds me sexy as hell. Probably more now than when I was 120 pounds. I'm 139 pounds right now. That's the true measure right there. Yeah, you know what, Jennifer? Okay, this is such a good place to be because I'll give you a quote that I say all the time.

The man who loves walking is gonna walk much further than the man who is only walking to a destination. So in other words, I've never heard you say that. You're in, I've said that before. Yeah. He's been a fucking said all the time. I don't even, we've talked about it. We've never said that before.

Never said that before. Doug knows, he knows, he'll shake his head like, you're even done for like, I've never, I've never been to a court. I said all the time. Hey, listen, go ahead and finish it. It was beautiful, it was beautiful. Here's a deal.

This is how you know you're gonna be consistent forever. You enjoy what you're doing. Now as far as the bulk and the cut is concerned, don't worry about that. It'll have, at some point, you're gonna be consistent forever. You enjoy what you're doing. Now, as far as the bulk and the cuts concerned, don't worry about that. It'll have, at some point, you're gonna be like, hey, I have a little strong. You're gonna have a Vegas trip come up soon. Hey, I feel like I want more stamina.

Hey, I feel like I want more strength in the squad, or maybe I want more mobility. And then you just follow that, follow that feeling. But you don't have to have a goal. One of the problems with having a goal, and there's positives and negatives to it, but one of the negatives is people get so focused on the goal that when they finally get to the goal, they're like, now what? What do I do now?

Where do I go from here? So you're in this excellent, amazing place. Just enjoy what you're doing. This is like, this is where we try to get people to get to. So you're doing great. Yeah, the only thing that I would ever probably change up with you is the programming every doing. This is like the, this is where we try to get people to get to. So you're doing great. Yeah. The only thing that I would ever probably change up with you is, uh, is the programming every once in a while.

So and it acts how we wrote them. We wrote them with that intention, follow anabolic for three months. After you do that, move into performance or strong or aesthetic or one of the other ones. And, you know, so you're learning new movements and exercises, you're hitting different planes. So you're getting stronger with all those things and you're constantly kind of changing it up

so the body's not adapted. It doesn't get so used to anabolic that you start to see diminishing returns. But other than that, where you're, I mean, 2600 calories is a great place to be for your size. That is a good metabolism. So there's not, and you're incorporating yoga, you're walking, you're getting stronger, you like the way you look and do it. You can enjoy it and you're you're incorporating yoga, you're walking, you're

getting stronger, you like the way you enjoy it. You're enjoying the process. It literally is such a perfect place to be in. And I'm a cell, something will naturally happen over the course of, you know, the year where, you know, maybe you got something coming up where like I said, Vegas, maybe it's not Vegas, maybe it's just something you're going to do and you want to be leaners, so you run into a calorie deficit for a little while or maybe it's winter Vegas, maybe it's just something you're gonna do. And you wanna be leaner, so you run into a calorie deficit for a little while or maybe it's winter time and where you're enjoying some of the Thanksgiving foods and some of that,

so you naturally kinda go on a bulk a little bit, but you're in a very beautiful place. I think we are striving to get most our clients to. Yeah, just literally, just keep enjoying what you're doing. This is perfect. Just embracing. Thank you. Yeah, we have anabolic performance, aesthetic. Okay, here you go. This is perfect. Just embracing. Thank you. Yeah.

We have anabolic performance, aesthetic. Well, there you go. We have all of that stuff. I'm in your private forum. We have the nose BS 6 pack. So I have all those things that I can interchange throughout the year. Yeah, perfect. We'll just give you a virtual high five then.

Yeah. Yeah, Jennifer, you're doing great. This kind of question really makes me happy. So I'm happy you're aware. Oh, thank you. And if I could just say one more thing to all of you guys, and if I get emotional, I'm sorry, but I just want to articulate to you guys something

that I hope you guys realize. When I had my daughter, I was terrified I was going to pass down my body image issues with food. Even though I consciously tried not to do this, it was an edible just at the place I was at. As all of you have helped me change my mindset, all of you helped me get to a damn good place and that fear is now gone. My daughter brings some home papers from home paper from school and she writes about

herself and I see her right, I am strong, I am kind. My heart verse with happiness. Nowhere is there the word skinny, thin, none of that. She makes me carbs and says, I want to be strong like my mama. So from a person who values being a mother over anything else in this world, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Yeah, God, God bless you. Really are changing lives and are not saying, and I'm not saying that to be corny, it is genuine for me. Please know you are truly making an impact on lives and you are you are all kind compassionate souls and it comes through your

podcast. So when you hear the name Alexander or Jerry that's my daughter. You know that you had a tiny part in helping her make her the badass that she's going to be. So thank you. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you for that. Oh, it's powerful. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you taking the time You're all just very kind people. So thank you. Thank you Jennifer. Thank you. Have a great day guys. Happy holidays you two you two Isn't take me a second. I know I had to like look away because if I was listening and focusing on what we're doing. I could make eye contact with you guys. If you cry, I'm gonna cry.

I think it's feeling. That's it. You know, what a great place to be. You know, it takes a long time, sometimes for people, we have this place, but where they enjoy the process and they're like, you know, I don't need to have a specific goal. I just love doing this and I feel good. And then the question arises, and should I go back to what I was doing before, which is kind of what she was asking, right?

Is it okay to stay here? No, it's more than okay. This is the best place to be. And boy, what she said at the end, man, is, I mean, we hope for this for most people to get to this point. It's, I mean, that's what we do. We try and get our clients to get to this place where you can navigate and you know what to do and apply things and you enjoy the process and join the processes everything.

The truth is it's not easy. There's a lot of work and a lot of the work is internal. It's not just X's and O's. It's just not, these are my macros. This is the best program. Follow it. There's normally a lot of internal work that needs to be done and obviously she's done that journey and it's so cool to see when someone's of internal work that needs to be done and obviously she's done that journey and You know, it's so cool to see when someone's put the work in to see it pay off like this and she isn't an amazing place So Jennifer, we love you. Thank you Look if you like our information you got to head over to mind pump free calm and check out our guides We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness goal. The best part is they're free

Mind pump free calm. You can also find all of us on instagram just in his at mind pump justin i'm at mind pump saline at them is that my pump at home thank you for listening to mind pump the goal is to build shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mind pump media dot com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having

Sal, Animate Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.