Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1717: Why Before & After Pictures Are Bullsh*t

Episode Date: December 30, 2021

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin detail why before & after photos should be eyed with suspicion. The origins of the before & after photo. (1:40) The psychology behind why the formula works. (4:00) Why Mind Pump doesn’t use before & after photos. (6:23) Five Reasons Why Before & After Pictures Are Bullsh*t.  #1 – Sell the visual, rather than the full story. (8:10) #2 – Preach the outcome, rather than the journey. (13:13) #3 – Encourage people to compare themselves to others. (17:47) #4 – Pray on your insecurities and sell you the solution. (21:14) #5 - The most consistent results DO NOT happen in 30 days. They come much later. (25:49) Breaking down SHREDZ and how they manipulated their transformation photos. (30:42) How to manipulate the pump to sell your product. (36:34) Why Mind Pump encourages you to unfollow anyone using their body to motivate you to get into better shape. (41:04) Related Links/Products Mentioned December Promotion: MAPS HIIT and MAPS SPLIT 50% off! **Promo code “DECEMBER50” at checkout** Visit Paleo Valley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “Mindpump15” at checkout for 15% discount** The Key to Fitness Success is Self-Love – Mind Pump Blog Workout Because You Love Yourself Not Because You Hate Yourself – Mind Pump Blog SHREDZ CEO FIRES DEVIN PHYSIQUE AFTER PHOTOSHOP SCANDAL Mind Pump #892: Rich Gaspari Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Rich Gaspari (@richgaspari)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump right in today's episode. We talk about before and after pictures that are used to market fitness products and programs and why they're all baloney, while they're all crap, and why we don't use them.

We actually give you five reasons why we don't use before and afters, and why they fly in our integrity's face. Can't do it. Now, this episode is brought to you by Paleo Valley. They make some of the best Paleo-based supplements around. Now, one of my favorites is their bone broth protein. There's literally no other ingredients in this protein powder.

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that's December 50 with no space for that discount. One of the biggest conflicts we have with our marketing team. Oh, it's also costing us a lot of money for sure, but it completely goes against our integrity as coaches and trainers. And so I think we need to talk about why Mind Pump does not use before and after pictures in our marketing

or why we think before and after pictures are bullshit. This struggle is real. It is. Because you know how effective they are and how emotionally pulling it is to see that clearing distinct change in somebody and then it's an immediate thought that, wow, if I do this, this is going to happen in a really short period of time. Well, in the words of our marketing team, you guys are idiots to prove and formula. Yeah, exactly. Okay, and it's hard to deny that that's,

can you just, can you name any piece of advertising that is more effective than a before and after in fitness and health? Nothing. Nothing is more, it will sell more, it will sell more faster, it'll get you more attention entire companies, and go like this.

That's including in all aspects of health beauty and fitness. All of it. Was this all started? Was it body for life or what was that program that really highlighted? They were probably the first one to a really, to, I think, take full advantage of this. Before and after has been around forever. I mean, it would, they haven't been around forever. But they took it to a, you remember that you would open the book.

I had the book. Did you have the book, Doug? I know you did. Yeah, you followed it. I bought the book and you opened it. And I would say the first four pages, the back four, we're all just before and after. It's just amazing transformations. Oh, I bought so many products as a kid,

based off of before and since. Cybergenics was a company that I bought. They sold a supplement system, which was literally 10 bottles of bunch of stuff. And the before and after was so dramatic, literally there would be an overweight guy who then looked like a bodybuilder. Like it wasn't even like, you know,

so-and-so lost 15 pounds. It was like, wow, that guy became a bodybuilder. Yeah. And I spent my hard earned, and I remember, I'm a 15 year old kid. I'm washing dishes at a restaurant and I'm saving my money. And it's like $200

is back in 1995 or whatever. For the, and it was the before and afters that did this. I wouldn't have done it otherwise. It's super effective. It's also one of the number one things we hate about the fitness industry. That we grow up hating. Well, what do you think is the,

what's the psychology behind it? Why? Why is it, why does it work so well when people see it before and after? It is, it taps into the way that our brains evolve to see evidence. So if I show you a study that says, the study shows this percent increase or whatever,

that's never gonna be as effective, as especially someone you know, a friend of yours who lost a lot of weight doing some. You're automatically be like oh my god That totally works because it's really called social evidence or I also think there is a a Motivational component that it taps into to because what happens is whenever someone looks at this Why I think body for life crushed this because if what they did so well was so many different looking people. Guys, girls, fat, tall, skinny, lie, fly. Yeah, I think it does you, somebody goes,

oh my God, that's what I look like right now. And then they see what they look like afterwards. And then so now they have a picture of what's possible for them because that body, that guy has my body type right now, what he looked like six months ago. And now he looks like that. And also, I think it's really about the attention game, right? Like, what's the most powerful way to express

that whatever it is you're selling them works? You know, it's just a visual. It tells a lot of information in a very short period of time. And like, you don't have to read like all of the proof, the backseat or the system. For sure, but it's got to be hitting a very, very emotional, yeah, primal type thing because you see yourself. And that, so if I saw an ad for some pillar with that and it was

advertised to women, it was just a woman before and after that ad doesn't hit me. If it was a skinny guy, that's right. If you look, I mean, you know, you gotta relate to it. Six foot three guy built like me, like look like what I looked like before. Boy, that one would, I mean, that's the one I bought by the way.

Yes. The Cybergenics had a hard gainer supplement stack and that's the one I bought because I saw the skinny dude gain a bunch of muscle and I was like, oh, this proof of concept, right? Yes, this definitely. So I think that's what it is.

I think that if you do enough of these, right? And you have a fitness business. You do enough of these right and you have a fitness business You put enough of these before and afters you throw up a picture of a percentage of these people They will oh my god that looks just like me and now they are inspired because they go oh if he can do it or she can do it I can do it. Yeah, and now you know some now our marketing team has said this to us, who cares how you get them in so long as you teach them the right way and you show them the right workouts and the right diet and they try to make the case that you'll attract more people that you can then help. And I've heard that before, and there is some truth to it, but the problem with this

is the way you enter into your fitness journey matter so much in terms of your sustainability, that that would start people off on the wrong foot. And it's so against everything that we stand for. In fact, when we first met before we started Mind Pump, that was one, I don't know if you guys remember, that was one of the first things we said. Whatever we sell, we're not going to use these before and afters to try to sell our products because I many of our clients fell prey to that Even while they were our clients and how annoyed were you with your with with this this whole marketing system and what it creates an immediate

Expectation coming in that we would have to like basically overcome an objection right away. And likes to talk them out of that mindset. It's tough though, because I mean, I've seen a lot of our transformations of people that have listened to show for years. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Dude, it's not like we don't have before and after. Right, we have hundreds of other ones. And they're inspiring.

So it's a, it's a, you know, what do you call that? A catch 22, right? Like it's this weird, weird situation we're in where, man, one, we're not big fans of using that to, as a promotional angle. But boy, there's some of these incredible transformations that people have made that, you know, selfishly, I want to share because I want, look, look,

these are people too that are, but then, I know, I know the message that that's sending and it flies right in the face of what I think we present on the show all the time. Yeah, and what we stand for, I think, okay, so the first thing that I think, that I, for me, that at least that's an issue, is that it sells the message that the aesthetics of your body and how they change as you exercise is the most important thing, or that's the only thing, right? Because what you see is looks, and people are already so fixated on aesthetics and looks when it comes to working out,

that what it causes for them is, because when you're doing it the right way, if you, let's say you're gonna lose 40 pounds, when you do it the right way, it starts off slow. It's a slow process at first. If you're looking for sustainable lifelong changes, if you want to just change your body and then go back to the way you did before, that's fine.

But if you want sustainable results, it's a step-by-step process, it's a slow process. And so what it does to people is it makes them think that the visual is all the value and they ignore all these other beneficial effects that they don't notice. You're like, I remember, how many times this happened to you, right? You get a client and you're doing everything

the right way. This is later on when you became really good as a trainer. And they'd come to you in two months or three months into your training with them. And they'd say, I've only lost like seven pounds on the scale. I don't know if this is really working. And then you would say to them, well, how's your energy?

Yeah, how's your sex drive? How's your mood? How's your work going? And it's like, oh my God, all that stuff is way better. And then they would start to like notice, like, oh yeah, this is really valuable. But the point before that was that they were not aware because what they were so focused on was just the look.

Well, that's the problem with like, okay, so let's take the body for life. And you look at a page, let's say that's got 10 transformations on it. And let's say there's an obvious winner, like, oh my God, his transformation is most amazing. And then there was somebody that, let's just say, had the least physical transformation.

But what the story doesn't tell was the guy that had maybe the least transformation on the visual, he got off drugs. his wife and him have a better marriage, he's been a more productive father. Maybe he's recovering from a chronic illness. Right, and like, I mean, just completely has changed this guy's life forever, but no one is talking about it because we're so fixated and focused on it. Some of the apps are showing.

Yeah, like who won the look transformation? And maybe the guy who won on the physical transformation, that guy already had a lot of those things in line in his life. And so it made the transformation for him literally exes of nose. Or what if they did it in an unhealthy way? Or right.

Yeah, so that's even better point. Yeah, that's a big one because you don't know the whole story of what happened, which is so important. And then it creates these kind of false expectations. you don't know the whole story of what happened, which is so important. And then it creates these kind of false expectations. In fact, before and after's been around for a long time in the weight loss industry or whatever, and then there was regulations that said,

you need to put underneath and they always do this in a real small print, right? That users can expect, don't expect these results. It's all individuals. It's all very, yeah, very, very, very, very, they had to do that because they would get in trouble, but it doesn't matter. It still causes and creates these false expectations.

So then you have somebody that enters into this whatever program or whatever that's selling their goods and services through this before and after. And now this person has that visual. That's what's supposed to happen. That change, but what people need to understand is the visual changes that happen through a fitness and health journey are the side effect of the health and fitness journey. Not the primary effect. It's the side effect of improving

your health. Now if it becomes a primary effect, you start to sacrifice health, which always happens, and then you start to sacrifice health, which always happens, and then you start to lose both. So you don't want to have those false expectations that are sold through before and after. That's, I mean, that's one of the main reasons why I hate. I never did that as a trainer because this person has their own story, their own challenges. What's a win for them might not be a win for someone else or might be a loss for someone like, like if I have a new client who has a bad relationship with exercise has never done it,

maybe had some bad experiences, terrible diet, all that stuff, and she just was consistent one day a week for a month, and then she came in a second day a month and was consistent for three months. That could be for that person a huge win. Now, for someone else, that might be nothing, not a big deal. I'm 20 years old, I could show up whenever I want.

I don't have all these things. I don't have this relationship with exercise like that other person, but that person who has that big win, if their expectation was based off of before and after, and how many times have you had this happen with a client? Man, I'm failing. And then you have to sit down and like, point out the wins. But like, what do you mean you're failing?

You came to me, you never exercise. That's an visual journey. Yes, and I think the biggest point we're trying to stress, like each person, we have to take our own path. There's very specific needs that each person has coming in. And that's just like a fraction of the story, the byproduct, like you said, of all the work

that we're putting in to rebuild the body and create a healthier body to keep you going further into the future. It's the same reason why we don't like the 60 day or 90 day challenges either. Totally. Because another effective marketing tool. Right. I mean, it's just, what people are so focused on the outcome and we're constantly preaching the journey.

Yes. You know, you, you, you, you enjoy the process. Can I lose the most weight like all the offices, right? Well, every work in, in one month from now, there'll be all these offices across the country that will promote these. All right, weight loss challenges, everybody's gonna do. And it's all, you win a cash prize, if you get,

whoever loses the most weight in the office, and everybody is focused on the result, the outcome versus the journey on how they got there. And the truth is if they're only focused on the outcome and they don't focus on the journey, it won't be sustainable. It's guaranteed it won't be sustainable. No, no, and it's not just your opinion at them.

The numbers are clear. It's an 80 plus percent fail rate within a year of losing the weight that you're trying to lose if you approach it the wrong way, which is how most people do. So you are almost guaranteed to fail within the first year. Now, if you extend it to three, four, five years, the fail rate is north of 95%.

Why would you do anything? Why would you put so much effort into anything? by the way fail at that right and by the way All that really highlights is just how you know how radically different we all are and the ability for some people to just fucking Stayed by all yeah, that's I mean that's all that highlights is that there's some people that have a different gear that can sacrifice for Me as mb miserable before they finally break versus most people that, like after a year of a goat, this is ridiculous, I'm not gonna live my life like that. No, you're 100% correct. It's all about the journey,

and the result is great, but if you enjoy the journey, and you do it the right way, you're always gonna be on the journey, because that's the part that you enjoy, that you understand. Those are the changes that are sustainable. The focus on the

result or creating those false expectations is almost a guaranteed way to get someone to approach fitness and health through a unsustainable 100% fail rate after six months or a year. And so what we don't want to do is start people off on the wrong foot and with fitness. And maybe in some areas you can start on the wrong foot and with fitness. And maybe in some areas, you can start on the wrong foot and then correct things. But with fitness, it's starting on the wrong foot is almost guaranteed way to get you to screw up. Even if you start to change things up.

To adjust at that point too. And I just think that this is one of those things that it creates this sense of being in a race. Like all of a sudden now, you know, like, I'm not getting this, I have to push, push, push, push harder. Like, everything is just about, you know, getting as quickly to the finish line as possible and not, you know, being aware of what your body is trying to tell you. You know what a worse outcome is, is that people actually have success with it. That's even worse.

When they actually utilize these challenges or use these transformations to motivate them to have success. That's short-term success. Yeah, because now they, I mean, how many times have you had a client like that where you picked him up later on and they love that stuff? They love the comparison stuff. They love the 30.

What they'll say is, hey, I did this before and it worked. Yes. And then I'll say to them, well, why are you here? For a couple weeks. No, that was always my answer. If it worked, why are you here? That's right. Oh, I couldn't stick with it. So did it work? Or did it you here? For a couple weeks. No, that was always my answer. If it worked, why are you here? That's right. Oh, I couldn't stick with it.

So did it work? Or did it not work? No, it worked. No, it didn't. If it worked, you would not be here. And that's the big thing. I remember talking to a client years ago, and this was a gentleman who had a big setbacks in life.

He had a back injury, then he got divorced. And anyway, he used to be fit and didn't work out for a long time, getting a lot of weight. And he came and hired me. And we started working out. And this was maybe six months into training. And I remember he was really down on himself one session. And he's like, man, this is ice sock.

I used to be so consistent back in the day. And I don't know why this is so hard for me, this and that. And I sat down with them and I said okay Let's figure out you've been with me for six months Let's look at all the amount of times you've worked out with me in that six-month period Let's talk about that. Let's talk about some of the stuff that we've changed with the nutrition and I did the math And I don't remember what it was but I said okay You've averaged about two workouts a week with me since we started six months ago And he goes yeah, I can't believe I'm only working out twice a week.

And I said, okay, how many days a week were you working out before you saw me? And he's like, he's quiet. And I said, zero. I said, sounds like a success to me. Sounds like you've done more than you did before. It's that, you know, that false expectation that people have, especially when they compare themselves to things

that are not, that you can't really compare to, which I think brings us to the next one. Well, yeah, that's just gonna say, that's the next and maybe the most dangerous part of all of this is encouraging people to compare themselves to other people. To trap. That's a big, that's a social media trap period.

Cause of the pressure and anxiety. It's a piece of joy, right? Oh, I mean, it's so hard to, to, you know, be kind of proud of your successes and acknowledge your progress when you're comparing yourself to someone else, which, again, back to, you know, some of the earlier points,

you don't know the whole story. All you're comparing to is this one factor, like, wow, they make more money. Wow, they look happier in these Facebook pictures with their family. Wow, they look more fit than I do and they got there faster. So now you're not a success, you're a failure. Now I'm not as good as that person.

This is failing for me, which leads to bad behaviors, right? You start to feel down on yourself, either you'll A, stop doing what you're doing, or B, engage in unhealthy health and fitness behaviors, like over dieting, over training, doing things that are not sustainable for yourself, taking all these diet pills, that kind of stuff. It's comparing yourself to other people besides in fitness is one of the biggest problems that people can encounter. And it caused a lot of bad things.

I think it's worse today than it's ever been in our lives for the exact point that you brought up. Like, this didn't exist that long ago where, like if you were just, just 20 years ago, you could go a full year and maybe not see two people that have like six pack abs. Like literally, that would be totally normal. And this would be totally normal for someone

who works out in a gym. That's how crazy it is. I used to do this thing right when people would like compare and talk about, oh, this person in this body and she looks so amazing. And then I would stand them up in the sales pit and have them like look across the gym. 150 people in there.

Yeah, 150 people in there, all bussiness, these are all consistent people. It's a weekday in here right now. I said, show me five people that look that way. In the gym right now. So this is totally biased. It's not we're not the mall. We're not in a random place. This is where people are want to be and you couldn't you couldn't find me five people. But yet today on social media and let me tell you the people that like these transformation pictures that think that they're inspired and motivated by it are the same people that also follow that they're inspired and motivated by it are the same people that also follow 20, 30,

50 different of these fitness influencers who go and diet extreme, take thousands of photos of themself in short periods of time, use them to drip over the course of a year. And even if they don't, let's say there's somebody who keeps their body in a neurotic, or what if?

Six percent year-round, and what you don't know is like how fucked up and out of balance the rest of their life is because they're so neurotic about their body and you as this person This normal person who has a normal job and just wants to be healthy and fit are following these people and can and compare constantly Comparing yourself daily and so you get this skewed perception of what the real world looks like and it doesn't look like that It's so much more intense these days like the last time I remember even having access to looking at those type of visuals. It was magazines and that that's what we had. We had to go get the magazine and then you would look at, oh wow, like look at these guys are amazing or girls like with their

bodies and they're but occasionally you get it on TV but every single day you just scroll, and if you're following these people, it's just like a constant loop, a reiteration that you're not good enough. You're not good if you'll never get to this point. Yep, and insecurities are often based off of comparison. I am skinnier than most people. I am fatter than most people.

I am less happy than most people. I'm less attractive than most people. I am less happy than most people. I'm less attractive than most people. You know what? And by the way, this is statistically true. Not that it matters, by the way, because you have value no matter what, and you can be a good person or bad person no matter what. But even if we look at the numbers, the odds are that 99% of anybody watching or listening to this somewhere in the middle, meaning most people are kind of like you, right? Most of us are like that very few people are on the extremes. Now, what is presented in Before and After pictures and what is presented in social media and in marketing?

Extreme is that extreme. Yeah, for example, if I If I lived in an NBA locker room, okay, or NBA courts, I would think, I'm six foot tall, right? I would think I'm short. Like my gosh, there's these, everybody's, I wouldn't even think they're giants. I would be like, wow, I'm so tiny. Everybody's like six, eight, or seven foot tall.

I'd have this distorted view of my height compared to others. That could become an insecurity and that would only enhance the insecurity because I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so- Well then, then you go home and all you follow is NBA players do it. Yeah. So you're getting in double here. Well, that's what I'm saying.

So, and this happens with fitness marketing, and this is what before and afters do, because here's what happens. You go and you follow the program or the diet that the before and after is selling. You do it, and you do it for 30 days. The before and after you saw, I was like, oh my gosh, this guy lost, or this girl lost so much weight, it looks so incredible in 30s. And then you do everything right. You know, into the context of your life, you're like, man, I've been more consistent than

I've ever been. I'm eating right. I'm making all these changes. But because the metabolism is complex, bodies are very different, and again, you don't know the whole story, you lose 10 pounds, which would be a lot in a month, probably more than you should, but let's just say you do that.

Now, you're not happy, you're like, I suck enough. I suck, man, this person lost 30 pounds, I look in the mirror and I like, I made some changes, but what the heck is wrong with me, right? And so what it does is whatever insecurity You have it praise on it because you know earlier we talked about identifying with the people in the picture

Yeah, who you're identifying with is not the after it's the before hundred percent So who am I identifying in the before right well if I was a kid I'm identifying with the hard the hard gainer skinny person. Ooh, that's hammering my insecurities, right? Or am I identifying with the overweight mom, middle-aged mom, or the overweight young ex-athlete, or whatever they choose to portray, right? So that's my insecurity, and what the 30 day, the transformation before and after pictures do is they take you in security and they prey on it.

Well, this is why marketing teams crush doing this. I mean, they have a small window, five, what is it, five to 15 seconds on average to grab your attention and telling you the whole laborious story about the journey and all the way. It's just not gonna happen. And so what the quickest way is to hit you into the soft spot,

hit you on your insecurity and make you feel bad about yourself and then sell you the solution. That it's like marketing 101 and it's a hell of a time being a business that is trying to do it in a different way when that's a proven formula. And I'll tell you being honest, it's been very tempting to fall into that, being even told from the marketing team,

like, listen, we use double your sales. Right. Well, we could, we could get them in and then we'll teach them after that. And it's just like, it's so hard for us to do that. Even if we know that our intentions are pure, that once we get them into our network, that we would then teach them the proper way, that would be if they were willing to listen

to the rest of what we're doing. But what it'll do is it casts a wider net and what we're going to catch more of the people that didn't even want to learn in the rest of what we're doing, but what it'll do is it casts a wider net, and what we're gonna catch more of the people that didn't even wanna learn. Not only that, but just people who are already in that cycle of self-hate, right? So you're already in a cycle of self-hate, and it's very hard at that point to get you

to change those things, so I'd rather not do that. I'd rather not promote self-hate, because if you're exercising, I mean, how many times have I said this, right? If you're exercising and changing your diet because you hate yourself, it's not going to work because exercise is a punishment. Food is restriction or tasty foods or a reward. And that already is starting, you're already starting off on this dysfunction relationship with exercise and nutrition, which only leads to destruction, it only leads to failure.

No, you terrorize yourself for so long. That's right. Now, here's the next point. This is one of the bigger points as to why marketing is the way it is, because the most consistent results that happen, and what I mean by that is, when you actually examine people that do change their health in dramatic ways and not just change it, but they maintain it for the rest of the lives, right? If you actually took people like that,

interviewed them and I know people like that, I've worked with them, I've trained people who went from never exercising, who had terrible diets, who then threw along, slow working on behaviors type process, they became essentially permanent. Here we are 10 years out and I still talk to these people,

I'm still friends with them and they're still maintaining it. So that's a pretty damn good success rate, right? The most consistent results don't happen in 30, 60 or 90 days. It happens later. I tell the story of a friend of mine who, he's a friend of mine now, he's a client at first. He want to lose 35 pounds.

He was an overweight kid, insecure, gain and loss weight back and over and over again to the yo-yo thing. Anyway, luckily he decided he wanted to do the things the right way. I talked a lot about what we talked about in the show with him and I coached him and trained him in that way. He lost 35 pounds in three months, three years after we started training, right?

So we started training. He didn't lose the weight for three years. Lots of small changes happened in those three year, in that three year process. Then all of a sudden, the ones that really moved the needle finally clicked, by the way, he's never gained the weight back, they finally clicked in the three months, the 35 pounds came off. Like, what kind of a before and after is that? Three years and three months later, here's your before and after.

Those changes are not depicted in these, in advertising because if they, if they were, nobody would buy that. Well, it's praying on another thing that we want, expedient, right? Yes. We always, that's right. So that's the other part of these things is that you know that you're, that you're doing that. It's a, it's tough, man.

It's tough being in a business where we sell people on how to help them and then to not be able to use the number one, probably one and two, right? Between transformation and challenges, arguably number one, number two, low hanging fruit, marketing tools that our space uses. In order to try traffic. They're so effective. This is how effective they are,

that these before and after marketing tactics have been around for long enough to where, if you took the average person and you asked them objectively, what do you think about these before and afters? Do you think this is sustainable? Do you think this is legit? Most people would be like,

and that's not really real safe. Yeah, I don't know. It seems suspect. Still works. Yeah. Still gets them to buy something. That's how effective it is. There's some emotional draw to it. You know, like you said, it's, that you project yourself into these people.

And if it's somewhat relatable, you just, you can't help it. Even though you know, like maybe some of these aren't like super legit pictures I'm looking at, but it portrays this idea that this could happen. And this is you. I think that I think it's subconscious, right?

I don't think you even, I mean, maybe some people go, oh my God, that's me, I could do that. But I think a lot of people, it just connects and they don't even know it subconsciously. Well, because you're just watching, I mean, this happens to me all the time when I'm watching like a, we were just, which I knew what movie it was,

but I'll watch a movie and it'll be like this feel good, come back story or something. And the kid will have similar things that he went through that maybe I experienced in my childhood and I get all emotional, right? And it's because I see my, I know what's happening. I see myself as the character that they're portraying in the show because there's something I can relate

or identify with. I don't actively go like, that's me. It's just like, it hits this thing that makes this connection. And I think that just happens some conscious that people as they're going through all these before and afters, they see someone that go, man, that's stupid. That's so true. Try doing this. I don't know if you guys have done this.

Watch a movie that you grew up watching as a kid, watch it as a dad or as an adult. And then here's the funny thing that happens. When you're a kid, I had, like, for example, I watched the breakfast club with my kid. And now when I watched that as a kid, I was all pro, the students. I was all pro like, yeah, the de-kid principal. I know. What a jerk. Then I watched it with my kids and I'm like, these kids are having these kids. What is wrong with these kids? That principle, I would, I'd be pissed off like they're smoking weed in there.

They're freaking running through the thing. It degenerates. Exactly. So you're, you're 100% right, Adam, you identify with that stuff. And so what before and afters are getting you to identify with are your insecurities. They're, they're literally designed to make you feel like crap and to make you compare and then to sell you a false expectation. It all happens instantaneously, and it gets you to take an emotional action

which is to buy their product or their service and the fail rate because of the way you start into that process is so high. And this is, again, these are some of the reasons why we hate doing them. Now can we talk about, and I love just throwing at least one company under the bus but we started out talking about shreds because they were the most

prolific company that were using transformations and doing things, doctoring and they got in trouble for Photoshop too and doctorate. So let's talk about this as a subject by itself. Well then let me share something just to kick that off then and forget because this was so eye openingopening for me and I didn't know this Until I got I know what you're gonna say this blew my mind to yeah, I didn't know this like this is like a real thing that happens I found this out when I was competing and Many of these supplement companies health companies anybody who's trying to sell a product that uses before and afters Actually hang out at the shows.

At all, we're all the competitors. Bodybuilding for the mind-blowing. Bodybuilding, men's physique and bikini. And really, they are looking for a certain body type, right? They're looking for a demographic of people. Obviously, if I'm selling some super-jacked, whatever I'm going bodybuilder, like if I'm like this kind of more health,

I'm gonna pick a body that's more bikini or like that direction. So anyways, they go there and they look for the top five. You know what they're looking for? That people are looking for the after. Yes, this is the crazy part. They're shopping you and then they're shopping for the afterpin.

And I've been approached this way where I've been offered $5,000, I think five and 10 are the two different offers I've been made on this, where a company will come up to me and say, hey, we'd like to pay you to do before and afters. And I'm like, oh, you're a little late, you know, like I'm here already. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no and all we need you to do basically is lay off a training for the next couple months and go ahead and eat in a surplus and enjoy yourself and we just wanna document that and we'll show it in reverse. I remember when I first figured that out, I was, I wanna say 17 or 18, and I read an article by an anonymous body builder,

I remember what the magazine was, I think it was muscle media, and he said that exact thing. Then I went back and I looked at the before and afters, that were in the bodybuilding magazines, and everything became clear. Yeah, because you could see, you know what a body looks like when someone's got a great muscle base.

Yes. And they just put on like 20 pounds. Totally. And you could see that. And then I trained I, you can real quickly start to put that together and then it makes a lot of sense. Oh, 100%. I looked at it and I'm like, oh my God, this guy, this is the before

and this is the after me. This is the most popular and common trick that they do with before. Well, think about it from their perspective, like you gotta do this. If you're gonna pay someone, could you imagine? That's way easier. Could you imagine finding someone out of shape

and say I'm gonna pay you five degree, and I need you to look like this. Like how many people would even be able to do that? Yeah, 90 or five professionals. You're paying for something that you don't even know what the outcome's gonna be. So this is already a proven, like I see this as the after,

and I wanna keep this as like what I'm displaying. So now we just add the weight. I mean, I believe they take it all the way to this level. Like you're say said company, you head to the, and we need a girl, you know, this color hair, this color eyes and about this size, and this is what we're looking for. So go find her.

Oh, we need a male. We want him to be about this size, this color hair, this color eyes, like, and then they go in, they go look at the top five and go like, there's our guy. There's our girl. You know who did this a lot? I wonder if we can find these online. They're old ads for Muscle Tech. they go look at the top five and go like, there's our guy. You know who did this a lot?

I wonder if we can find these online. They're old ads for Muscle Tech. Muscle Tech did this. They did this with bodybuilders, like Johnny Jackson and other guys, and it would be a before and after, but really what it was, it was in season off season. Bodybuilders, and they would pay them a lot of money. That's, it's easy to convince these guys to do this

because they don't make a lot of money. No, and also they're like. So five or 10 grants, a lot of money for That's, it's easy to convince these guys to do this because they don't make a lot of money. No, and also they're like. So five or 10 grand is a lot of money for them. Yeah, like open a couple months off. You're gonna pay me 100 grand when I was at, I was gonna eat cheeseburgers and chill for next month or anyway, so it's a win-win for them. It's crazy.

And then there's a second part to this that is now, especially with the current technology. Oh yeah, so there's some, there's some, some before and afters right there. Very clearly you can see that they switched the before and after. Well, yeah, and what, what we were saying that, and I didn't know how to look like this until I, or look, you know, look at this and see it as well as I do now, I've obviously trained long enough, trained a lot of clients, also been competitive.

And I know a, a good solid muscle base looks like when you just pile on you know, 10, 15 pounds of fat versus somebody who has built muscle and also burn body fat to get shredded that's coming from a really sedentary body. You can tell a very, very, very obvious and clear once you know what to look for. Now you also have with current tech and this is harder and harder to identify, almost impossible for the naked eye,

which is this photo shop technology, and they make subtle changes to pictures that look profound to the human eye. And by the way, marketers have been doing this before the technology existed. They used to do like where they would airbrush photos. Like the fashion in the scene is definitely well, this is happening. I'm going to go further on this. This is happening on a basic Influencer level too big time. I mean, that's how shreds got called out so bad because of like the Devon Fizzic guy

And I think Joey Swoll and they were they were just doctering their own personal photos Yeah, it wasn't I they were made an example of encouraged to do that because it's I mean that's what they're selling Right, but they made they were made an example of they weren't the only ones. No, you's, I mean, that's what they're selling. Right. But they were made an example of, they weren't the only ones. No. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, everybody. Yeah, they're just the most popular. And it still happens.

I mean, I've told you guys before, I've got, you know, nieces and stuff, and nephews that, they all use that face tune app, and they do these little things to make, you know, it look more dramatic or make their waist look smaller and then better, and then they're pitching a product at the same time, and you have no idea that that's being subtly adjusted. And there's this, they justify it, that magazines have been doing this forever. So how am I any different? How am I different?

Yeah, well you got, I guess, when you guys have to describe too, like just if you were to get a good pump in good lighting, and you can almost manipulate this like within a day. Bro, if I, I'm not gonna do this because again, this is a posture and everything. I'm gonna do, I'm not gonna do this

because I know this is against what we would say, but if I posted my flat non-pump standing picture to my pumped picture post workout, and I could easily sell those as a performance. You know what, I'm gonna actually challenge you to do that because you're in the best shape to do this right now and can show probably the most extreme version of this out of all of us.

And I did this a long time ago on my Instagram. So I actually would show people this. I would be like this and I would intentionally deplete. So I'd love for you to do this one day. Maybe do a fast. No, I don't even have to do that. I'll do it. No, it's not.

Yeah, but I want to show somebody how extreme you can make something in tw- that was my point. Was how extreme can I show something in that was my point was how extreme Can I show use the difference in my body within 24 hours with no Photoshop? No nothing just manipulating carbs water and a pump and I showed people like this crazy Well, don't forget lighting it wasn't so yeah, so if you if you take and just deplete So either do a fast or carb deplete for a day or two and don't lift, do a morning, no pump, no nothing, photo in front of them, you're flat, no pump, no water, no food, no nothing.

And then literally the next morning, take the rest of that day after you take that before picture, load up on your food, carb up, eat, drink, and then sodium up, everything, and then the next day, same thing, carb calories, and then get a massive pump and take a photo and put it in your shirt, I would love for you to share that, because I think you would show the most dramatic difference right now.

So, I remember when, and by the way, when you lift the, when you take off the blinders to all the stuff, everything starts to become very obvious. I remember it was early 2000s, and this is before the pre-workout market even existed. Let people know this, but the pre-workout market as big as it is now didn't exist before. There was no pre-workout market. The first one was like ultimate orange, which came out in the 90s, but they really sell it

as a pre-workout. One of the best companies to do this was Gaspari. Gaspari had was called Super Pump 250, was the name of the supplement, and he promoted it as a very smart, very brilliant marketing, improves the pump. Oh, everybody likes a better pump. And then what he did, which I thought was so brilliant, is he did before and after the workout pictures.

So he said before the workout, after the workout, and you would see this in same pump. And you knew this is the same guy in the same day, but it doesn't matter. It was so effective. I remember looking at those before and after is going, oh my god, he's literally selling how people look with a pump and saying, it's because of this product, which is insane. And he sold so many of those products and that market literally exploded, became this huge thing. Because you do look very, by the way, the more muscle you have,

the crazier your pump after looks. Right, we fill them up. This is a lot of what they do. Like you could take someone and have them stand kind of like whatever, take that picture, flat, stand, then you could have someone get a crazy pump, stand with a certain angle, better lighting, and it looks like there's 15 pounds.

Oh yeah, it looks like there's 15 pound difference in muscle, they also do that with these before and after. They'll even go so far as to spray tan lines into people. Yeah, you know that for every shade darker, you look a percentage leaner. I saw that, I saw it in article a long time ago that broke that down that said that for every shade darker that you are It looks you get an X percent

Like paint like that crazy brown paint all over the stupider. Yeah, in real life you look so crazy But then on stage like oh that looks I look kind of good. Yeah, so I mean look Here's a deal like no hate on companies and fitness people that use before and afters they are very effective I'm just shaming that's all do think, just we're better than you. I do think a lot of them have good intentions. I also think a lot of them have nefarious intentions. Nonetheless, it's a very effective marketing tactic. In the seven years, MindPump has existed with the podcast

and selling programs. We've never really used before and after pictures. And again, this is why. it's so counter to our integrity and why we started in the fitness industry in the first place that we just can't with good conscience use them unless we figured out a way to do it that match with our integrity, but we have yet to do that. So there you have it. And by the way, and I do want to, now I'm about to put the responsibility on the, on the viewer and the listener, okay? These, these before and

afters as bad as they are and the lies that they may sell or whatever, they don't work unless we buy them. So as a consumer, it's up to you to, you know, we are conscious intelligent humans. We're also animals. And the struggle is always, can I use my frontal lobe and my conscious to overrun or overrule this animal instinct, that makes me behave in ways that may not necessarily be best for me. And so as a consumer, when you're going through social media

or looking at products, remember this. Remember that. You should unfollow everybody that you're, if you're someone who's, I mean, I'm not going to tell people that are in the competitive world that are doing whatever, but if you're the average person who just wants to be healthy, fit and in shape, I would encourage you to unfollow people that are using their body daily as a way to motivate you to get better shape. I think that's doing the harm to the good. Exactly. I think that's counterproductive. Totally.

Look, if you like our information, head over to MindPumpFree.com and check out all of our free guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness or health goal. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So Justin is at MindPump Justin. I'm at MindPump Salon. Adam is at MindPump Adam. Thank you for listening to MindPump.

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