Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1729: Tips for Building Muscle Over 50, Ways to Address Joint Pain, How to Train for a Strongman Competition & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: January 15, 2022

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Obesity is a choice. (3:57) How Adam may be the best stock predictor of all-time and the state of the gym industry. (25:19) How exercise has profound effects on mental health. (32:01) Drinking and Zbiotics. (33:26) The benefits of starting with a new training stimulus. (35:57) The first genetically modified pig heart has been successfully transplanted into a patient. (39:42) NCI, making it easier to become a successful online coach. (46:53) #ListenerLive question #1 – How can I maintain my strength gains while building endurance and stamina for an upcoming obstacle course race? (57:43) #ListenerLive question #2 – What are some ways to address joint pain while running MAPS Performance? (1:11:25) #ListenerLive question #3 – How would you recommend programming for a strong man event? (1:22:50) #ListenerLive question #4 – Is it a realistic goal to build 2-5 lbs. of muscle, being over 50 years old? (1:28:09) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] January Promotion (#1): NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTIONS SPECIAL BUNDLE OFFERS January Promotion (#2): MAPS Anabolic 50% off **Code “JANUARY50” at checkout** Mind Pump #1527: The 3 Step Solution To The Obesity Epidemic Mind Pump #1465: The Truth About Health At Every Size Substantial weight loss can reduce risk of severe COVID-19 complications, study finds: Successful weight-loss intervention before infection associated with 60 percent lower risk of severe disease in patients with obesity — ScienceDaily Planet Fitness to buy franchisee Sunshine Fitness in $800 million deal Ohio Man Loses More Than 30 Pounds Drinking Only Beer During Lent Visit ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Genetically Modified Pig Heart Successfully Transplanted Into a Patient NCI Certifications x Mind Pump Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “MINDPUMP” at checkout** MAPS Fitness Performance MAPS O.C.R. MAPS Strong Prime Bundle Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum MP Hormones MAPS Powerlift Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Alex Hormozi (@hormozi)  Instagram Jason Phillips (@jasonphillipsisnutrition)  Instagram Mike Matthews (@muscleforlifefitness)  Instagram Hunter McIntyre (@huntthesheriff)  Instagram Robert Oberst (@robertoberst)  Instagram Craig Capurso (@craigcapurso)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pup, right? Today's episode, these are fun ones because people actually call in live, ask us questions. And we get to coach them live on air. By the way, if you ever wanna be on an episode, write in your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com and if we pick it, you'll get to talk to us live

and we can help you out. Now, we open the episode with an intro portion. Today's intro was 48 minutes long, so we talk about fitness and we bring up scientific studies. We talk about our sponsors. Here's what went down in today's episode. We opened up by talking about how obesity is a choice. Then we talk about Adam, the psychic investment seeer,

but there is a caveat. Then we talk about gyms, how they're doing. Some companies are doing much better than others. Then we talked about fitness and mental health, got profound effect, positive effect on your mental health. I talked about the new beer diet, sounds great, probably not. Then we talked about one of our sponsors, Zbiotics. So Zbiotics makes genetically modified probiotic drinks

that are patented and designed specifically to prevent the negative effects of drinking alcohol, right? So this is how it works. You drink some Zbiotics, then you drink with your friends or you drink your wine or your alcohol. And the next day, you'll probably feel a lot better and it's pretty remarkable. Stuff works. Go check them out.

Head over to mindpumppartners.com. Find zbiotics. Click on it and then when you want to get 10% off, use the code MindPump10. Then we talked about the man who got the pig heart. This is the first time this has ever happened pretty cool And then we talked about another sponsor NCI they may they do some of the best Certifications for online fitness coaches. They teach you how to become successful actually right now They're giving away a connection based coaching model within their most popular

Scholarship program. So this is a huge giveaway. Now get a pen and paper because it's a bit of a long URL, but if you go here, you can find out what's going on. Head over to nci scholarship.com forward slash January scholarship. If you're a fitness coach and online coach and you want to take your business to the next level. Then we got to the live questions. The first one, we talked to somebody who wanted to gain endurance and stamina, but didn't want to lose muscle. The second question, we talked to somebody who wanted to know about favorite exercises, but their bothering his joints, what do we do? The third question, this person wanted to know some secrets to strong man training. So we gave him some of those secrets.

And then the final question, this is an over 50 year old gentleman is trying to build more muscle, has competed as a bodybuilder already done it all naturally, wants to know how to gain a little bit more muscle. Also, all month long, we're running the biggest promotion we will ever run for the entire year. We've put together three workout bundles Each bundle includes nine months of planned exercise program All set up all planned out exercise video demos the whole nine yards the three bundles are one of them is for beginners One of is one of them is for intermediate people and then the third one is for those of you that are advanced or have a lot of experience,

you can get them all at mapsgenuary.com. Also, if you just wanna try one maps program, you wanna see what it's all about, why everybody's talking about maps, why it's so effective. Do maps and a ballack, that's the best one they get started with. And right now that one's 50% off, also only in January.

If you just wanna do one, and you wanna try maps and a ball do one and you want to try a map and a ball like and you want that discount, go to mapsred.com and then use the code January 50. That's January 50, no space for that discount. All right everybody, it's time for some honest truth. Obesity is a choice. Ooh, I know.

Ooh, I can hear a pin drop on that. Yeah, I know. No, I do want to say this first. Wow. Before we get into it, that doesn't mean it's not super hard to deal with, that doesn't mean that oftentimes the cards aren't stacked against you. That doesn't mean that there are easier and harder situations.

And I would even say it. And that people don't, and it's not, we shouldn't deal with it with empathy understanding and understanding. But what I said is very true. Being obese is largely, very much largely a choice. Do you think there are exceptions to the rule? Very, very little. Medical exception, less than 10%, less than 5%, less than 1%. Less than 1%. Less than 1%. Yeah, it's a very, very small.

Now, there's a range of sizes that people can come in genetically speaking. I'm talking about obesity. I'm not talking about, you know, 15-pound difference between one person and another person, but rather the 30, 40, 50, 60 plus pounds of body fat that we see now that is so commonplace. And I know the arguments, oh my God,

this genetics sort of play and it's so, and that's not quite true. If you just go back 150 years or so, for example, the famous pictures of circus, back in the day, circus is used to have what are called freak shows, and they stop doing these because they're taking advantage of or poking fun at things that I don't think we should.

Yeah, deformities. Yeah, and it was terrible, right? We'd have the bearded lady or the crab claw kids with deformed hands. A common one in circus freak shows was the circus, what they would call the circus fat man or fat woman. And if you look at these people,

we have pictures of them at the turn of the century, they were, these people would not, they wouldn't turn any heads today. They were like 400 pounds or something. 300 maybe pounds. And today they wouldn't turn any heads, but they were so big at the turn of the century, you know, you're talking about like, you know, 1890s or 1900, that people paid money to

look at them because it was so wild and so odd. And we didn't evolve, we don't evolve so quickly that all of a sudden our genetics changed so rapidly that now being obese is something that we don't have control over. It just doesn't work that way. I think culturally we've normalized it so much now that, yeah, that you don't, I mean, that's why I think that, that cuts through so hard, right? It's because we're getting so much information about,

you know, what it is that is actually like, you know, something that is causing you to have this obesity, this disease, this is not your fault, like you're a victim of this, instead. And to be fair, a lot of it is wrapped in with trauma. And so there's a lot to unpack there. It's not like an easy thing to address. Totally. And there's a lot to empathy. It needs's not like an easy thing to address. Totally. And there's a lot of empathy. It needs to be given to people in that state, but it should be an empowering message that you can choose to really address it.

That's 100% accurate. You can have empathy and be honest. Actually, true empathy and love is honest. It's not lying. But it doesn't, it's not being a jerk, right? So what I'm not saying is obesity choice. So, you know, so you know, stop complaining and just go take it or whatever and it's all like, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it is a choice. It's hard as hell. But one of the worst things that we did around obesity with popular messaging and the fitness industry's

partially to blame, but popular media in general is mostly to blame, is the disempowering message that it's not your fault, that you have no power, I should say, you have no power over it. What a terrible message that we sold people. Now, why is that message, why is that the popular message? Because the sells 100%. The personal responsibility empowering message doesn't sell bullshit products. It just doesn't. If I'm here trying to sell you a product and I say to you,

hey, look, you know, your choices and what you choose to eat and how you're active and your relationship with food. That's largely what will change this. You're not buying anything from me, but if I say it's not your fault. It's your genetics. Oh my God, we got this pill though, that'll fix it. You're going to buy what I have to sell. If I'm a politician, I am not going to get elected on a message of, hey, this is in your power. Here's things you can do. I'm gonna get elected by saying, it's not your fault, there's nothing you can do, but if you elect me, I'll fix it for you.

Right? So it's this terrible, terrible message. And then what clouds it are assholes and jerks that like to point out the, I guess the folly and obesity, the problem is when your obese, your challenges are out in display for everybody, right? So, if you're a functioning alcoholic or drug addict

or gambling addict or sex addict. It's not operating the same room, not know. You wouldn't know, I can't look at someone walking down the street and be like, wow, look at that shitty husband or bad person, right? I don't know, I don't know that. But I could look at someone who's 80 pounds overweight and say, oh, they have challenges with exercise

and nutrition. I think that's why it's such a sensitive topic right away. That's exactly why. Because it's like you can't hide it the same way that you can hide other conditions or issues, right? So, you know, it's weird though. It's like, I don't think that statement, I mean, I was kind of teasing you about my reaction

because I know that it'll trigger somebody. But the truth is that just 20 years ago, that wasn't like a, there was no debate around a whole lot of controversy. Yeah, there was no, but because this idea of health at any size, that movement and that, demonizing trainers or health professionals or fitness people that are talking about obesity is like fat shaming. I think because of that movement in that direction, it becomes like this, ooh taboo conversation.

It's like, it's not. It's pretty straightforward actually. It's like, and again, I can say it without it being, I'm shaming you for it. Like I have tremendous empathy. I mean, majority of the clients that I help most my life struggle with this in one way or another.

So reason why what we talk about is not the exes and those most of the time it's about behavior stuff. 100% and why we recommend that people go, especially if you battle with this and you are morbidly obese, that you see a therapist because there's normally a root cause of this. And it's not just thermal, law of thermodynamics. That's the, that's, of course, the, the science behind why we got in this situation. But it's not the, the true mechanism that has caused us to go down this. And so,

I think you can say those things and also still have empathy. Simple does not mean easy. Okay. Climbing Mount Everest, I mean, technically speaking requires putting the rice foot in front of the left. That's it. Yeah.

Right? It's simple, but does that make it easy? No, it's hard as hell, right? Stopping and alcohol addiction. Simple. Don't stop drinking alcohol, right? Does that make it easy? No. Obesity is a challenging issue,

but the formula's simple, and the problem is a lot of people in fitness, they understand that obesity is a choice from that perspective, and they treat simple as easy. Well, you're just lazy. Well, you're just, yeah, whatever. No, no, no, no, no, it's challenging and it's hard,

but that also doesn't mean that it is a choice that you're making every single day, and your choice can be to move in one direction or stay on the path that you are, but you have to empower yourself first. The problem, the challenge with being empowered is it requires the responsibility and the understanding that you have control.

And that's a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing to look at your life or your situation, something that's causing you so much pain. It's very hard to sit down after, I don't know, 15 years or maybe your whole life of having this pain and saying, oh man, a lot of this is my fault. There was a lot of things I could have done that I didn't do or there's a lot of things I did

that contributed to this. That's a very painful realization, but if you don't make that realization, nothing happens, right? Nothing will ever happen for you. So, part of the reason why Adam, I think the messaging around obesity is started to move in the direction you were saying,

is because we're getting to the point where a majority of people in modern societies are obese. And now when most people are obese, well, the popular messaging now is, hey, leave me alone, don't tell me it's fat-shaming and I know it's not a choice and it's not my fault type of deal. Because I get it, you don't want to hear it. You ever try to talk to somebody who's got a real issue with some form of addiction or dysfunction and they don't want to hear it? You ever try?

It's just a losing battle and they don't want to hear it and they don't hear it. They don't hear anything you have to say? Yeah, especially now because there's so many different narratives out there to glom onto that will help kind of feed your justification of, well, this is the identity that now you've assumed. So now this is who I am and this I'm proud.

And there's all these other things that kind of go in that direction that you can get behind. And it's a whole industry. It's a whole industry of feeding you bullshit in a sense to make you feel better, which is something that everybody kind of struggles with that right now because there's so much information out there that you can really get whatever it is you're looking for, but what is really truly healthy for you? What is really truly will feed you, sustenance that will then move you in a direction where your body is gonna benefit from it

and everything else will transpire. I think that money and marketing is largely responsible for this messaging, but I also think that the fitness industry is very responsible too. I think it's an over correction from the shitty job that we've done for the last three, four decades.

Yeah, we just, and look at how we still do it. We still put bodies up there to show transformation pictures. We still promote this motivation, hype, extreme ways of training and incredibly. Or if I it was shows like the biggest loser. That's right. So I think that, and I think that's the, where I have empathy for the people that kind of side

with that messaging of health at every size and kind of are pushing back, where I understand it is that it's a correction from the other extreme. It's more a rejection of the terrible messaging and all the crap diets. You know, here's another controversial fact. People who struggle with obesity will have more success

hiring a therapist than they will following a diet or hiring a lot of trainers. It's a truth because a lot of this is not due to the fact that you don't know what's healthy and what's not healthy. It's more around the behaviors and what's driving it and how you feel about yourself. And by the way, we're talking about obese here, I know,, I think that's, um, this is connected to anything that you've been through. And then this is just a reflection of that.

It's just another one of those. This person is now just chosen to cope with it through food and overeating or lack of exercise and movement or the combination of the two of them. But they're no worse or better than somebody like you were kind of alluding too early on that beats their wife or freaking get screams at their kid or gambles like crazy and loses all their money.

Like all these things are issues that are rooted in something deeper than the actual mechanism that everyone's being able to see. Yeah, I'm sure this, we have a large audience. Like if you're watching listening, it says, raise your hand if you're perfect. I can tell'm sure this, we have a large audience. Like if you're watching, listening to this, raise your hand if you're perfect. Right, I can tell you right now,

nobody is gonna raise your hand. Raise your hand if you have a challenge with something that tends to cause you damage or trouble in your relationships or your own health, right? Everybody's raising their hand. So obesity's visible and it's easy to pick on. And if you're a kid, you get picked on for it and you feel not attractive and then the marketing

and messaging is, so I get it, I get it, right? We're in a world now where markets have done such a damn good job of giving us what we want. And what we've told markets that we want is fast, cheap, tasty food. So that's what we have, a lot of. And markets, we've also told markets what we want is I don't want to move.

I want to relax all the time. So lots of products and services are, I mean, door dash exploded because people like to sit at home, they don't, I don't want to drive down the street to get food. I want it to come right to my door, right? At some point I'm sure this is gonna be a service where they come to your couch.

I don't want to walk to the door. I mean, we're laughing, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if there was something like that, right? So it's an environment that's challenging. It requires a completely different approach, but that does not mean that that obesity is not a choice, that it doesn't come from choices that you make on a daily basis.

And so that's the thing that we need to understand. We have to start there. We have to start with the, I have a lot of power, oh, by the way, I'm not saying everybody is gonna get shredded, we're all gonna look like supermod. That's not what I'm saying, okay. I'm talking about just generally healthy, okay. Not obesity or extreme in the other direction.

I'm just talking about general health, but it starts with people saying, I have a lot of control and power over this, but boys is hard. I don't know what to do and I don't know what that looks like, but I do know that I have a lot of control and power. And you have to start there. You can't start with, I have no control and no power over this. And I'm, I'm, this is, I am All of this is a result of things out of my control So like where do you go from that right? Well, you think because obviously it's becoming the norm like you're saying

It's more and more the majority is is becoming You know, they're the majority is already overweight and will be say things that like almost 40% is what I think I read last so based off of that Do you predict that that will be a motivator to drive traffic into gyms or do you think that it'll become like, oh, this is just how I am. Why I even go to the gym and workout? So do you think it's going to impact gyms and the fitness base in a positive or a negative or a net, you know, net zero from it. It depends.

And here's what I think. I think if gyms want to be successful, I'm glad you brought that up, by the way, because I wanted to talk about gyms also on some other topics, but along with lines of what you're saying, I think if we start to talk about fitness and its benefits on mental health, I think we'll have way more success.

And stop focusing so hard on the physical, visible changes that it provides, which it does. It does make you look different. It does, you know, you look healthier, more fit, more muscle, you know, less body fat, all that stuff. But if you ask anybody, I swear to God, go ahead, talk to anybody who's worked out consistently for more than 10 years, and ask them to list

the top five reasons why they like to exercise and work out. I guarantee you, one of the top five, if not number one, is the mental benefits. I guarantee you, it's not the, it makes me look good, and I like being buffed, and I like looking, whatever, it's the mental health effects, and I think that's what we need to focus more on.

Could you imagine if people worked out just because they knew it made them feel better mentally and emotionally? You imagine the side effects of that and what that would look like? Just a happier society. Oh, I would love that. Oh, it's just like, yeah, I think a mental part of it's a huge factor. And I think with this information, like we just saw one study that finally came out that proves that lowering your body fat will help be more resistant towards any kind of diseases out there, any kind of illnesses. And I think that for some reason, we just, we forgot that, or the general population just

ignored that fact. That's been around, like we've known that and we didn't need a study to tell us that, but apparently we do. And so I think with more of these studies, finally like kind of emerging and showing people, improving people that if you do make better choices

with your food nutrition and you move more, you get exercise, you get sunlight. You're going to be healthy, you're going to thrive, you're going to be energetic again. Hopefully that's the push then to put people up against you. I mean, that's the hope, but the truth is, you know, media is in the business of attracting eyes and viewers and nobody wants to hear that. That's work. Well, that's not sexy. Yeah, it is.

So, you know, it's the other option doesn't work. Now you got to make people know that the pill form is not working. No, no, you've got to almost, you've got to come back to it. Messaging around giving those people hope that they won't have to do anything about it. You know, it'd be a better headline

and that will get more attention and more views and more people talking about it is, you know, Pfizer comes out with a pill potentially that could reduce body fat by, you know, 2% if you take it every single day for the next five years, like that's more interesting. And we'll get more attention than all the things that you're saying right now.

I think too. I think too, when you market fitness so heavily on the visible changes, the physical, like aesthetic changes, that a lot of it causes a lot of shame, salt, and hate within yourself. Very powerful short-term motivator, by the way. If you hate yourself and you feel disgusting, you're likely to buy a gym membership

or buy supplements or do something in the short term. Terrible long-term, the long-term, it fails because at some point you just can't, you don't wanna hate yourself anymore and so you end up stopping. But a very short-term, very powerful, short term motivator. But again, I think telling people, focusing on the visible physical changes is going to motivate people the wrong way.

I think if we, because here's a fact, and this is one that is just, it's profoundly under, I guess, under-delivered, under-represented, maybe misunderstood, the effects that movement and exercise have on mental health are pro... There's no drug that we have on the market that comes close. It's at least as effective in the short term as very powerful SSRI drugs. In the long term, more effective, you don't build a tolerance. It actually keeps getting better. Drugs tend to not get better after a certain period of time, get to change drugs, there's other side effects.

The side effects of the mental health effects of exercise are you get leaner, stronger, more energy, hormone balance, like all these positive, incredible things. So I think that's the message that we need to push a little bit, which is partly the reason why I said in a previous episode Why I think we're about to see an explosion in gym memberships. I think people kind of are feeling that I don't know if they're super aware of it, but they're feeling like I got to get out and get moving Yeah, and then combine that with which I think is a negative thing the new fear around I don't know if you're seeing the messaging around Obesity and COVID, but that's really starting to.

Well, that's the thing. It's just, I feel like, you know, at some point people are going to go back to the grassroots of what we're initially trying to do for improving our overall health. We all knew what that looked like. It's not a mystery, you know, it's just been bombarded with this new thing that came about out of nowhere and all of a sudden now pharmaceuticals are the only answer. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah.

Step one, realize that you have a lot of impact and control over it. Step two, hire somebody that can coach you properly, therapist to a damn good job, a really good experienced trainer or coach will do a damn good job. And then step three, be kind to yourself because it takes time and it's really hard. And then you'll have the best chances. You'll have the best chances. The problem is in the past, people are like,

okay, I have control, I think, let me buy this pill, right? Oh, let me follow this crazy diet. And then it fails. And then they do it again and it fails. And then what's the message that they get? It's out of my control, right? I can't do anything about it. This is just the way it is and whatever.

It's not my fault. Then you get pissed off and angry and you go in the other direction where you're like, anybody who tells me otherwise is fat, shameyamyamy. Yeah, but you're always in a fight. Yeah, I do want to bring something up though. I want to switch to something a little bit more positive. And I think Adam just may be the most psychic investment stock predictor of all time. Yeah, but there's a, we need to get him a hat or something.

There's a catch to this. There's a weird catch. It's actually a slide, not a fucking thing. No, no, no. I feel like there's been some smart listeners that have picked up on this and have already done. I hope you're about to see. I hope so, okay, so you know in the movie, you ever watch a movie

where there's like a genie or something, and the guy gets, you know, it says, let me give you a wish and he asked for a wish, but there's always a weird catch. You know what I mean? So that's, here's the catch, right? Adam says we should get this stock, or I need to invest in something he doesn't.

It always crushes the next day. This is the happen like five times, bro. Yeah, it's ding, dude. It really does sting. This just happened with as of the recording of this planet fitness. Yesterday, we were talking about how we predict that the gym industry is going to see a huge surge because people are just sick of being stuck at home. They want to work out.

Now there's fear around COVID and being obese. And so it's like lots of people going in. And I said that on a podcast and Adam went and thought about it and did some research and Very, I mean smart pick. He's I bet you planet fitness This is really well that would be the jam that a lot of people would flock to who aren't necessarily fitness fanatics Maybe we should be whole maybe I should buy some wish again Well, we didn't and then it went up like I was up 6% Yeah, they made it well. I had no idea that announcement was coming right so obviously had I known that in addition

I probably would have been a little more aggressive about getting us to buy I mean we bought now right do we buy today We did it. Yeah, we have it now So I still think it's gonna we're gonna be on a ride for a while they bought eight hundred million dollar acquisition of 114 clubs. Wow. That's what they announced.. Well, was it a chain that was going on? Chain. Oh, wow. So I was wondering when we're going to start seeing this. Like, obviously, we knew because of COVID,

there was a lot of gyms at Chao. A lot of washout. Yeah, right? So, and then there's always going to be somebody who makes out on that. So there's some of the big chains that are probably doing really well. Plan of thing is probably being one of those

that was kind of what I thought too. So I don't So this may be one of many acquisitions that we're gonna see by them and some of these big chains. Yeah, because you have a few things like combined to make the perfect storm. A lot of gyms close down, so that means you have less competition. People have been afraid to go to gyms for a long time.

I think the fear is kind of little over. People are feeling really unhealthy. It's January, it's just historically when people go to gyms for a long time. I think the fear is kind of little over. People are feeling really unhealthy. It's January. It's just historically when people go to work out anyway. And then Planet Fitness has a model that's very attractive to people in this particular situation. It's very low, it's very inexpensive, eight bucks a month.

I have nothing to lose or whatever. They've got lots of locations, blah, blah, blah. I don't necessarily like their model as a fitness expert, but I could see from a business standpoint, how it can be very valuable. So, I mean, they're poised to do. Well, it's also, I mean, most brick and mortar gym businesses, the stock is on the lower end, right?

They're not on an all-time low for 52 weeks, but they're kind of like a little over a middle of the row, which was another reason why I liked it, right? So it's not, they're not on a high because of all the fear of potentially, you know, gyms continuing to struggle. So that makes it also alluring, right, is that they are, they're already in a, in a lower stock position than what they previously were. So I, I predict minimum, they get back to their 52 week high. And then I think

they're already almost there. Right. And then and then on top of that, you got the this January quarter coming. And if your prediction was right, literally what made me go down that rabbit hole was your prediction. I thought, you know, the more I thought about what you said, I was like, you know, if the CDC starts coming out and the messaging politically is, you know, advantageous to say, Hey, get in an exercise and be healthy, which it seems that that's what the messaging, the direction of chatting, like you said. Okay, who are the big, you know,

who's the most obvious bridge there, too, for people that don't like the gym setting or like, you know, that it seems intimidating. Exactly. That was the other price points really low and I could just dabble with it if I want or I could back out. It's like, that's like, you know, that it seems intimidating. Exactly. That was the other price points really low and I could just dabble with it if I want or I could back out. It's like that's like, so my thought was,

what Sal said is most likely to influence the people that are easily influenced, right? So the people that are easily put, the same people that were double masking driving around in their car by themselves, scared to death and stuff are also going to be the same people that, oh my god, CDC says I need to get in there and exercise, and that that's the best thing I need to do. Those are the people, and they're going to be drawn to something that's cheap, that's easy, that speaks to them. I think

planas fitness was onto that model a long time ago. Or just people who had an exercise in a long time and kind of started to feel like they needed to and just needed the permission. Like, oh, here's another reason I think I'm going to go do it and it's not a big commitment type of deal. So it makes perfect sense. Fitness fanatics didn't stop working out. You know what I mean? They were the ones that kept going. It was everybody else. So it's going to be really interesting. You know, it's funny too, a week ago, the CEO from Planet Fitness said that he saw no slowdown, maybe less than a week ago. He saw no slowdown in their usage,

even as the new variant. Now, does that mean the entire time we're just recently in the last quarter? Cause they had no taking a hit or- Yeah, no, right now. Okay. Yeah, so in other words, oh no, January's here, we're seeing no slowdown.

People are coming in and it's getting packed. 2022, yeah, it's been a totally shift of mind, I feel. I mean, you guys, I mean, I feel this, I just I think I don't know if I said this on air and I know I told you guys this. I know more, more of my friends and family have COVID right now than don't. Yeah. Yeah. That's how, how much it's spreading right now.

It went like wildfire this time. And in, at least in my family and my circle of friends, most of the kind of fear around it, now that they've either experienced it or have someone closer than that's experiencing it, seems to be really calming down. Of course. So.

Remember, I have hypokondriac tendencies, right? So that's something that I always deal with anyway. And I try to check it, so I'll get a little fearful fearful and then I'll check it, take me sometimes a day or whatever. Well, when I got sick and I got better and it wasn't that big of a deal, a lot of my fear dissipated.

Just because you experience it, you're like, oh, okay, I, you know, I didn't want to. It's really the anticipation and the unknown that gets a lot of people. I wonder how many hypercontracts is created over the last couple of years. Anxious people, people who tend to be anxious, this has not been a good two years. Yeah.

I tell you, oh brutal. Checking on your friends that are anxious, tend to be anxious. I'm telling you right now, they're not doing so well. It's been a tough time. Yeah. And again, back to fitness and mental health. If you look across the board, exercise, across the board, exercise has such profound effects on mental health that if it were a drug,

it would be a blockbuster groundbreaking drug. There'd be nothing that even comes close to comparing with it in terms of its positive effects. And it doesn't even have to be like crazy tons of activity, you know, exercise is just moving. It's just getting up and moving has just, you know, tremendous effect. And I think there's this compounding effect. There's the obvious physical effects that exercise has in the body, which makes you feel more mentally healthy. It's got positive physical effects on the brain and hormones, there's all that.

But then there's also this side of it, which is, I'm doing it and it's working and I'm choosing to do it. Ooh, that's empowering. Oh my God, and I'm doing it again and I'm doing it again. This is a choice that I'm making and you feel, it makes you feel, it's like the positive feedback. It's exactly. You make solid choices for yourself that you know are good things for you.

Like you just, you benefit from that mentally, because you know that like every day you're making a conscious effort and a conscious decision to help improve yourself, your body, your health. And that's something that is contagious. And that's the kind of contagious, you know, we wanna come. Oh, beautiful. By speaking of crazy fitness stuff,

just see, you guys hear about this guy that he put out that he was gonna do a beer diet, lost a bunch of weight. You're about to... This is the kind of stuff that just makes me so... This is the follow-up. It wasn't the last one like the cookie diet. I'm gonna pull it up. I'm surprised that's new.

I'm surprised they haven't done this. It's like a couple, it's like a year and a half old. Okay. This guy, and a half old. Okay. This guy, and a high old man said he's only gonna drink beer to lose weight. So he's like, I'm not eating, I'm not doing anything else, I'm just gonna drink beer. And he has lost 33 pounds from doing this. No.

All right. No damage done, I'm sure. No. The opposite is true going on with Katrina right now. So Katrina, I didn't tell you guys this, but Katrina set a goal. So she's gonna be mad at bringing this up on the podcast cause she's probably ashamed of this. But she set a goal to me.

It was so funny when it was like the, right after our birthday or so, she's like, I'm gonna try and drink every day till the end of the year. What? And it go, what? And it goes, yeah, I just, I'm gonna enjoy a drink every day

till- A single drink. Yeah, well, sometimes too, sometimes more. Let's get worse and worse right now. And she's like, you're not gonna get any sex. Because the goal was January 1, she's going completely dry and she was gonna pull back at it. So she's one week or what are we on day 11 or something

like that, right? So she's a little over a week of being dry. And like, she's like, oh my God, I've already lost a bunch of weight. I'm like, well, you're holding on to so much water weight with that. I said, so let's just calories in it. Yeah. Well, no, exactly. I mean, she was on average having like two drinks a night, you know, and they're, you know, stiff drinks mixed with something, you know, so she never really needs Z-Botics or anything. I've never really liked offering her one because I was like, dude, I don't know.

Cause I kind of go back and forth with it, but I know that if I do have, I feel so much better if I'm like going hard like that all the time. But she's like, yeah, I'm good. We're so different when it comes to that. Like every once in a while, I'll get her to take it cause I try and explain to her. I'm like, listen, I know you don't get like bad.

I'm like, but it'll make sure that you, so she, if she knows she's having more than two drinks, she'll have the Z-biotic. But if she's just having a couple drinks, where I'm the, if I'm having one drink, I'm having that. Because one drink can mess me up. One drink can mess the sleep up, can give me the headache,

can make me feel crappy the next day. So that's how sensitive I am to alcohol, where she's not like that. She's really gotta go hard for her to actually start to feel that. But I thought that was a really cool week in. So she's a weekend, nothing. Yeah, nothing already. And I already see like her face looks like it's all leaned out already.

And she's, she actually wanted to start with it. You know, this is actually an interesting or a good conversation because anytime I have something where I'm kind of coaching Katrina, either through nutrition or exercise, I should always remember to bring it up on the podcast because even with all of her experience and knowledge, she still asks like good questions. So she's getting like back into the swing of things. And now the ideal program is probably resistance training for her or starter or anabolic because she hasn't really been doing anything. And she was telling me she goes, you know, she goes, I know,

I need to start on either starter or resistance because I haven't do anything and I know you tell me that. But I just don't, you know, I've done that like the last eight times or something like that. She's like, I just, I said, it's not that big of a deal. I said, there's nothing that says you can't start with strong or with another program that we would consider advanced. Now, do I think that it would be in your best interest to start with starter or one of those programs first? Absolutely. But you have to take into consideration your desire to go do it. If that outweighs that, if you're doing a new program that you haven't done in a long time or in comparison to doing something that you

feel like you keep kind of starting over or doing, then that kind of trumps it. Because that makes you get up and do it, because you're interested, right? Oh, it's a new workout, oh, these new exercise and learning. So you have to factor that in. Yes, you would be better off following, start, and following the way I've taught you

to follow the programs because the way we build the volume in on that and we kind of do the progressive overload for you, you'll get better results that way. But would you get better results than if you're inconsistent with it and you don't do it versus following something new that you're excited about. So you have to factor that in. And so it's not that big of a deal. Follow strong and we can move you back to anabolic later on.

I hope this doesn't come back to bite me, but you can do that as long as you know how to go. First off, you can't have any major physical dysfunctional issues or muscle imbalances because then that makes a bigger difference. But if you're generally got decent movement and you don't have lots of muscle imbalances or issues, you can start with one of those other programs. You just have to know how to go easy, how to ease into it, right? So start off with the lower intensity. So, you know, knowing Katrina, she's generally fit, even when she's not working out or whatever. So she totally could, she would just have to start off a little bit less intensity gradually.

Right. It's the novelty thing that she's really seeking for, right? Because she knows Annabelle can start her like the back of her hand, you know, between having a baby, having her surgery, like being off the holidays, she's restarted those programs so many times that she's just kind of like over the same phase and she just wants something unique and different. And I say, and so she was, it's like, it's not a right or wrong thing. It's a better or less good thing, right?

So I'm like, yes, that would be better for you to do that, but not the cost of, and she can't, she reported back to me. She's like, I'm so glad I listened to you about doing so much. She's like, it's so fun because I haven't done this. I forgot all these different movements that I never do, and it's challenging and it's different,

and she goes, so just the fact that I'm doing something different, like it's got me excited about working out every single day, whereas, you know, I know what's starting on an anabolic is for me every time. So that does matter. I know we preach a certain way on the show because we're always trying to give the best advice, but there's other things that you have to factor in sometime.

And if you're somebody who has kind of started the same program over and fell off, started fell off, started fell off, and you're not motivated to do the same thing, it's okay to interrupt that with something else. Even though it may not mean you'll get as good of results as fast and there is a better way to do it, there's other aspects that you have to factor in. No, that's why context matters so much. And that's why when you train people, it's like the answer to questions typically is it depends. You got to look at everything right, and that really depends. Hey, did you guys see the news article that came out about the heart transplant?

Well, the pig one that I sent you. The first person, you got transplanted a genetically modified heart, pig heart. Okay, did they grow the heart in the pig? Or was this like a peachy dish? That's a good question, Justin. We got to find out. Maybe Doug could look it up. Oh, maybe because, okay, so like part of me thinks that it, you can only grow things in a lab. I don't feel like that's translatable yet. Maybe I'm wrong in terms of like it having to, you know, pump blood through and like being part of a living organism first. Oh, I hear what you're saying.

To be translatable and accepted versus like, you know, just something that's like grown in a picture. Yeah, that's a good point. Here's my guess. I don't know the details. So my guess is it was genetically modified so that it wouldn't get rejected. Okay. You know, so like they modified it so that it wouldn't get rejected by him or by humans, but that's my guess.

And my guess is it was in a living pick. I don't know how, I think growing it a lab, like you said, would be a lot more challenging. So do they like crisper this? Like how did they know I genetically modified this? What does it say, Doug, is it say anything? They say it's genetically modified pig hearts. So that suggests it was done in a lab,

but I'm trying to get down to the point where it talks about that. So it was a success, though, is that the supposedly, like initially at least, right? Because that's weird desires to roll around in the mud. That's best though. Dude, there's been so many reported stories like that, though, like with animal, like, like, what he gets the memories, you know? No. That would be weird. Isn't there some theories around that though that that's how he's all he made?

Is that how he's all he made? I see it like fascia, like, you know, how's that happen? Remember when we were people that have had like, there's been work and transplants where they like have some weird memory now. Oh, son, that wasn't there. Is there some weird? It was like a, like a serial killer or whatever.

Like, have these weird dark, you know, tendencies. He's all he made. He's all he made. Can you put on like 60 pounds? I like it when you put on about 60 pounds. You know what though? It's, first off, there was one that I read where I don't remember what it was. I think a man got a heart transplant,

met this woman and was just like something was they were attracted to each other. Not like sexually or anything like that, but just attracted to each other, became like sexually or anything like that, but just attracted to each other. Became really good friends. I read the story. They come to find out that he had her son's heart, her son died in a car accident. He got the heart and they felt a strange connection. Did you imagine that? Give me chills.

Did you imagine that's finding that out? Oh, that is so weird. So it looks like the pig was actually genetically modified itself. So it's a real pig, they modified the pig. See that makes sense to me. Yeah. More so because it has modified him to have like more human traits. I guess so.

Yeah. No, I think it's so, I do want to re-reject now. Well, no, I mean, yeah, it's something to make it so be compatible. You go in the lab in the room. You go in the town, you get in. You go in the lab and there's like all these big cylinders with like pig man Please help me. Oh, let's terrifying What other animal let's let's make some predictions what other animal at what point do you think humans are gonna use genetically modified animal parts to make them super human

You know, you know, it's funny. I have a ring of taint It's funny how real arms how more accurate, you know weird sci-fi Movies and shows like Star Wars or beginning like I remember with a like as a kid watching Star Wars and then like seeing all these creatures and animals and I was just like, oh that's so far fetched like this that could never it. But like how much more does that seem plausible now? Like that you have these kind of human like animal like creatures like if we keep crossing

over and transplanting and playing with CRISper and some of that now it's like Maybe it's not that far from it. I matched him as human monkey embryos. Yes Well, imagine if you could like modify yourself to have like the ability to smell like a dog or to focus on Far objects like an eagle although I will say this that would pose some serious challenges I bet if if we did that, let's say we had the technology and could all of a sudden make you smell like a dog, it would be so overwhelming, you couldn't process it. Because you just, you don't know what the hell's going on.

Of course Doug pulls up a picture of the... Yes. What was that? Jabba's pig... Yeah, it's not Boba Fett's. Oh yeah, it's all that. Yeah, it's a good idea. I know, dude.

You know, speaking of news that came out today, I don't know if you guys saw Alex Hormozzi. Oh yeah. Did you see the news on him selling his franchise? So Doug just read his book, right? The Hunter Million Plus, what's it called? A Roots His Book, shall I say? A hundred million dollar offers.

Did you finish it or you still win it? No, I went through the whole thing. Oh, you went through it already. And I like it. I love it. So you're in the business of marketing, I recommend it. He's, he's connected to our buddy, Jason, right? So he's at NCI. And Jason is the one who introduced me to him before. Now, I'd seen his ads pop up before, but I actually knew nothing about him. I didn't know what is this guy really successful.

He's just a marketing dude, like what's his deal. And Jason talks all about, he says he's a really great guy So then of course I'm sorry to follow him I know you've talked to him now about getting on the show So hopefully we'll interview him and can talk more in depth, but he just sold 66% of his gym watch business, which is his main source of income that he does and I think he got 46 million for it in addition to that. He still has 44% control and he's on the board.

Oh, cool. Just a, what a, it blows my mind like how, just, I mean, 15 years ago when we were like in brick and mortar, like anybody and everybody that was making millions of dollars, you knew who they were. We knew them, especially in fitness. It's like my first experience when we first met Mike Matthews, right? Like when we, I didn't know who Mike was and then find out this guy's got this big old

business. I'm like, how is this dude like, has this massive business that I've never heard of him in our space? It's like, it's so, it's, it's more common now that we, the meat or see these people like this that weren't even on my radar and they're building businesses that are hundreds of millions of dollars. It's never, and again, this is probably controversial, say, but it's true. It's never been easier to be a millionaire as it is right now.

It really has, it's really never been easier. I don't think that's a fact, isn't it? It is a controversial. It is, it's controversial because there's a lot of political messaging that tells people other ways. Yeah, people want to, you know, a majority of millionaires are self-made, by the way. That's a fact.

Majority of people who are millionaires did not start that way, didn't inherit it. They, I think is over 80% did it themselves. Today, you could reach more people with a product easier and cheaper than ever before. Starting a business is less expensive, requires less capital, less risk than ever before.

Getting your product to people has never been easier than it is today. Companies like Amazon didn't exist and the internet didn't exist. So, the efficiencies through the roof. Social media didn't exist, which social media for all of its negatives, there's also a lot of positives with it. So, it's a great time if you're trying to, you know, become successful, it's there. It's there if you want it.

Yeah, it's good news. So it is, I mean, that's why I mean, NCI is blowing up, watching Jason and what they're doing, like, I mean, more and more, I think there's a little bit of hesitancy and fear from some people that are aspiring to be trainers or moving that space thing and that it's oversaturated, because you're seeing the ads, you're seeing the people posting all day long.

So you have this feeling of like, everybody's doing this, everybody's selling fitness, everybody's into it, but it's to your point. It's just, it's so easy to get started that just anybody can do it. It doesn't mean that it's oversaturated. There's not room to scale a massive business, you know, like someone like Alex.

Just a bunch of room for that. Training people or coaching people, not in person. So we say virtual now, but just to say not in person. That existed 20 years ago, 30 years ago too. It was just super small. It was not a business. It was very, very tiny. Who was some people that did it?

Through the phone or through letters, I guess, or whatever. Maybe email when it first started. Today, coaching and training virtually is, I would say, one of the fastest growing segments of personal training and coaching. One of the things that NCI says is that one of the biggest mistakes online coaches make is they emulate, like, exactly what in-person training is like, which is a mistake. It's not the same at all. It's actually. You can't just turn them once or twice a week or, you know, connecting them once or twice a week and then not. There has to be more follow-up and more connection

and more things that complement it. It's different. It's a different. Although it's similar in many ways, it's very different. I remember going through it like when I got into it. And I mean, if it wasn't, I mean, obviously like this is what NCI is in the business of doing, but I would recommend people get in person training experience first before they even thought about doing virtually. Now, and that's because I didn't think their businesses like NCI existed to help people with that gap because I had to lean on, I didn't know about NCI when I first did This is before even my pump right I didn't know about that So I leaned heavily on my experience and knowledge from training people in person

Yeah, and I had to kind of troubleshoot my way through like okay How do I take that product and make it kind of virtual and how do I give that same type of service? How do I scale it? Yeah, and I started very low price point and I worked my way up as I figured it out and learned do I give that same type of service? How do I scale it? I started very low price point and I worked my way up as I figured it out and learned what I do. And I just, what I saw back then when I was doing it, was exactly what you just said that NCI thinks is one of the biggest issues with online coaching, is this idea of, oh, they buy coaching from you

and then you check in once a week with them and it's like, I was constantly in contact. I was constantly having to communicate things because I wasn't getting them in person. I didn't have that hour to impact them, which I was able to do in person. I had to hit more touch points to get the same kind of messaging across

because it wasn't the same. Yeah, they have a connection-based coaching model that teaches some of this, and they're actually giving away for free for a few days. So it's an expensive course that they have, but they're giving it away for a few days to get people in so they can show them. Like, okay, here's how you can build a successful

online coaching business. And now that we've been working with them, I've met a lot of these coaches who've built successful businesses doing this. Now success is measured by, yes, the amount of money they make, but also by the results that their clients get, how much people value what they do, which, you know, I've said this before and I'll say it again, if you want to be successful in fitness, monetarily, you have to provide success to your clients in real ways.

It's the only way to do it. Otherwise, you'll have this, unless you're like super lack integrity liar, you know, scumbag, you know, and even then that's gonna be flash in the pan. Stressful and constantly trying, I mean, that's what happens when all your concern about is acquisition over retention, that model.

In this day and age, it works temporarily because there's so many people out there that you can just keep going through millions and as long as you're converting at a certain percentage, you can run that, you could run for a while and have a, you know what's funny about that? Successful business for a while. So here's what's funny about that.

So I'll bring it back to the gym business. When I first got into the gym business, we didn't have Yelp and rating systems and internet where someone could look up, hey, what's the process like this over this gym or whatever. So there were a lot of sales people that had this mental, we worked in a very aggressive environment to put it lightly, right? So when I first got started with 24 fitness, this was in the hey day when 24 fitness was exploding and kind of writing the book on Jim's success.

They had just purchased or acquired a large gym chain themselves, speaking of which earlier. And there was an aggressive environment because there was a lot of dynamic people that was growing. And some sales people thought that you blew people out the door. You either buy a membership

or I'm gonna blow you out the door. So you have to like literally get up and walk out my office because I'm not letting you leave unless you buy something. I have this attitude, right? And in some ways it was successful from a dollar standpoint, but of course in other ways it was not successful because you just pissed off people as they walked out but you got away with it for a while

because there was no internet or anything with communication. Now at some point it started to get back and people started to... That rotation follows some point, it started to get back and people started. That reputation follows you everywhere. It started to grow. Now, you can't get away with that like you used to, right? Because of the way people communicate and let people know and all that stuff.

So I think today, yes, you can kind of rip people off, but we've already seen it with popular fitness. So it's like, I you know, 10 fold. And then you're screwed. You're screwed. You have to provide value and, you know, you want to just focus on that. You don't want to focus on numbers and volume. And I think this is where a lot of these masterminds and these other things go way sideways.

It's like how to get popular, how to get attention, how to get, you know, all the views, all the clicks, all the people. Like, that's like not even your concern at this point. attention, how to get all the views, all the clicks, all the people. That's not even your concern at this point. Your concern is value. Your concern is what it is you're providing these people that will then build upon itself and then grow from there. Yeah.

When I had my personal training studio and I opened it, I was in a new town. Nobody really knew me in that town before that I managed big box gyms and trainers and sales people and all that stuff. And it took me a couple years to build a relationship. I never spent a dime on advertising after that. I had so many referrals that I kept rising my prices because I would have wait lists

because I created a good reputation. That is the opposite power that you can have when you create so much value. Well, the statistics on that are extremely high too, like the conversion rate on a referral is like upwards of like 80%. Oh my God. Cold lead conversions like less than 17%.

It's like super low. Oh yeah, if you're looking to, you know, work out or get fit and healthy and your friend is like, oh, you got to work with Sone, so they're so good, they're so awesome, or you just hear about them all the time. Like, that person doesn't have to sell anything. You're ready, you show up and like, I'm ready to do this.

So, but in the opposite is also true. You start to build a bad reputation online, you get a bad reputation as a scam artist. That's it. Trying to erase that basically means you have to start on your business. You're done when it's done. You know, and I do believe,

so I still think it's a viable message for some of these masterminds, like Justin was talking about, to get away with it and still make money, and that's why they're still around. But that life cycle is shortening. Like how long you can get away with it? Like you used to be able to get away with it

for an extended period of time where you could probably get the bag and get out, you know what I'm saying? And still have a decent amount of money that you made off of all these people that you fooled or you didn't deliver a good service. But because of reviews and how fast things move and read it, like you just,

this life cycle that is getting shorter and shorter. Back in the day, snake oil salesman. So that's, you know, you get the term snake oil salesman. That's because back in the day, you had these traveling salesmen that would sound a town and they sell the, like, and they would sell fake cures, right? You know, and snake oil was like a common, you know, one that they would talk about, snake oil to cure your gout or whatever. But really it was anything, like this is the cure for baldness. This will make your husband love you. This will make whatever.

And they would get a wagon. This will cure women of hysteria. Yes. That's a vibrator, everybody. Look it up. That's what vibrators are meant to for. That was my favorite one. And it actually worked.

No. But they would load up a wagon with their fake garbage, and they would go town to town because they would rip people off. And because there was no way to communicate really quickly or effectively to other towns, they get away with it. So they go town to town to town to town, make up a lot, make a lot of money ripping people off. You rip people off today and the news gets out on the internet.

People give you bad reviews or whatever. I say you're totally screwed. And coming back from that is like, good luck. You have to change your name. Like, what was that supplement company that had to change your name? Shreds. Shreds. So, new name now.

You know, I haven't followed up on those guys to see where they're at. Remember I brought up what's his face? Joey Swall moved to that other one that was called RISE. RISE. Yeah. RISE.

I think the Z. No, no, it's S. It's RYSE, I think it's a it's a it's a it's RYSE I think is one of those rise. Okay. I think that's how they spell rise supplements But remember they got I mean they got some kind of a Gregor in that for a minute. Yeah, so I don't know I but I haven't seen an ad one for it for a long time So it'd be interesting to see if it was he's probably like what you guys always pick on me You know, I was already know damn bills area He's a care he's giving investment advice. He's still ripping people off. He doesn't care Hey, go get your NFTs guy

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And of course, we have a big discount. Go to mindpumppartners.com, find, or identify, click on them, and then use the code MindPump for 20% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Ian from Maryland. Ian, what's happening? How can we help you? Wow, this is so Adam and Justin, right?

That's it, we're all here, buddy. Okay, I want you guys every day. You guys have been a huge inspiration. I have really just changed my life in terms of fitness. I just want to say thank you guys, but that's so much. You're welcome, man. Thanks for listening. Thanks for that compliment, man. All right, so I'm just going to go ahead and dive into my question. So I'm going to to go ahead and dive into my question.

So I'm going to give you a very slight back story then get into exactly what I actually call for today. So I started working out in October of 2020. And before that, when I was in school, well, college, I didn't really work out a lot. I ran high school tracks. So that's when I worked out.

But this was my first time really hitting the jump. And I was just doing the split routine and making steadily good progress, but not really. It was pretty decent, it was slow games, but it was perfectly fine. And then around March is when I was introduced to you guys. And you guys were just a huge help, from the tip of you guys gave to the full body work.

I was seeing you, I was seeing the thing that you guys preached on a day-to-day basis. It really changed up my whole entire progress. I was able to not only increase strength savings by a lot. I also gained a lot of muscle mass too because I think you described it as an Ectomorph. I believe you say a lot. So is that how you say it? Or were you super skinny with a small body type? Yeah, Ectomorph or Wimpy like Adam.

Yeah, so I was. I was, I was an Ectomorph, Super Small Wendigan, that was my priority. And after listening to you guys, you guys definitely changed up that whole progress. Awesome. So long story short, I'm at to where I'm point where where I'm at now where I still want to see strength games,

still want to share a plus, still doing positive, but I decide to switch out the workouts because something that I know Justin and you guys talk about consistently is just doing that different playing, working out different planes. So I decide to go ahead and switch from my full body workout routine, which is like a typical 5 by 5 to now actually diving into mass performance, which has been great. I'm at the end of it right now. So now I decided to move on to that and go to mass OCR. Just a quick side note, I did sign up for I'm sure I'm sure we're running because you guys inspired me. It's a smart one. But with that being said, though, I still want to be able to maintain my strength gains and I know that OCR

The weighted is programmed. It's a lot of running involved so I know that can send competing signals signals So I was asking you guys What's the best way for me to structure maps OCR work and maintain my strength gains or what can I do? Maybe add in a day or something. I don't know how I should structure to make sure that is maintain my strength and my muscle mass And I lose lose it. Yeah, Ian, that's a good question. The best answer is the follow-up map sociars is laid out. So, every program that we create, the idea is to maximize performance for the specific goal

that the program is created for. And part of that is maximizing strength and muscle in relation to the context of the goal. So that means that in OCR training, maximizing strength so long as it contributes to your performance in OCR. So you got to remember something and strength can be relatively specific. So a power lifter is going to be stronger than a strong man lifter in specific lifts in this specific context. but a strong man lifter is gonna be stronger in a different context, right? And so this is true for all athletes.

So strength can be defined in many different ways. I think you're absolutely fine. You're gonna go on OCR, will you lose some strength in your deadlift squat and bench? Probably, but you'll gain it in different ways. That'll maximize your performance in OCR. And then you come back. When you come back when you come back You're just gonna be more balanced and that's really the key right unless you're just looking to work out for a few months

And then that's it But if you're looking at this long term You're gonna see yourself move in and out of different adaptations and goals and overall They all contribute to each other to a more balanced functional strong Healthy body and physique. That's not to say that he can't manipulate OCR or do some sort of a blend of OCR and like anabolic or performance, right? There's nothing that says you can't do that.

And the only thing, excuse me, the only thing that's going to happen though, if you do that, right? And what I'm hearing is similar to like, maybe the experience I had when I did like, I did a tough mutter, so I did something similar, right? And when I did it, all I wanted to do was, I wanted to be good enough to beat my two buddies that I was going after.

I really didn't, I wasn't trying to be the best OCR guy, I wasn't trying, I cared more about my physique and my muscle than I cared about like being a top OCR. As long as you beat Rattachapp friends. That's right. I just wanted to beat my out of shape friends because I was talking shit one day and they were making fun of me of being like this meatball buff guy and I said listen I could still get out there on one of these fucking obstacle course races and whoop your ass.

And so that was all I wanted to do. And at the same time I didn't want to sacrifice all the hard work that I put in to build this physique and put all this muscle on. So I train a little like OCR, but still kind of trained like a meatball, you know, bodybuilder guy. So if that's kind of where you're at, where you're like, I want to get out there and do this OCR thing. I just want to prove that I can do it. Then there's nothing that says you can't take part of OCR, add in a couple of the runs here and there, instead of running as much as we have you running in there.

Do some of the obstacle course, like just strength specific stuff for like your forums, which I think you should do because that's going to benefit you because a lot of the things in OCR is like requires good grip strength, but then still kind of run an antibiotic type of routine. And basically what I would do is I would just kind of split the week and half and say, you know, half the week I'm doing like an antibiotic full body routine

and then the other half I'm kind of following OCR. Now, if you do that, you're gonna sacrifice how good you're gonna be at OCR. But if I'm hearing you correctly, that may be less of a priority to you and your strength and maybe your physique is more important to you. But what Salos saying is absolutely true, too. Nothing, if you were to follow OCR to a T, let go of the fact that you might lose a little bit of strength in your deadlift and squat and all that hard work you put in and then know that when you get out of your OCR training and you get back to anabolic, you get back to strong, you get back to one

of our other programs, you're going to blow right back up and I guarantee you within that program, you'll catch up and probably surpass your current PR number. So both options are completely okay. It really depends what do you want from this? Yeah, I think there's, I mean, this is a very common fear. I think there's a lot of paranoia around losing the muscle. If that you work so hard to achieve, but not realizing it, as you go back into that type of training,

it's gonna come back pretty quickly. It's not something that, you know, if you do lose a bit of strength gains, just because you're focusing more on endurance. I mean, this is a phase, this is a period where now we're hyper focusing on something that your body's trying to adapt towards that's in a different direction,

but we'll benefit the overall. So honestly, I think that if you're comfortable with it to really dive into it and do it exactly how it's laid out, and you're gonna be just fine. You're gonna find that you're gonna probably enjoy it. Your body's gonna have a different sort of a goal to achieve an acquiring skill that you can improve upon and then come right back.

And it's gonna be like, you just interrupted it briefly. Yeah, you know, one more thing. I'm gonna make it more specific now, specifically to you. You sent us a question, a written question. There's got more details on what you said on the podcast. Do you mind if I go through some of them? Oh, no, that's perfectly fine. I just did one of the, I'll go through you guys time.

So yeah, that's it. No, no, I'm gonna read off a few things just for the talk. And Doug appreciates that Ian, just so you know. Yeah, no, no, no. I'm gonna go through some of the stuff just for the people listening or watching right now. So in your written question, you had said that you have, well, you already told us, you have a background in track.

So that tells me that you've done a lot of running. You're probably pretty damn good at it. You weigh 151 pounds, and your bench is 245, your squat is 330, and your deadlift is 405, which are exceptional numbers for somebody you are size. Because of your track background, your body weight and your strength, I don't think you're gonna have trouble

with OCR training. Yeah. I think you're gonna be totally fine. In fact, I think you could jump in it right now and you'll do better than most people with almost no training just because of your background. I mean, your body weight to strength ratio is so high that going across bars and stuff like that with your hands

is not gonna be as hard as somebody who weighs 200 plus pounds. So keep that in mind as well. Consider that you're in a better position than most people anyway just because you're training background. The biggest challenge people have with OCR is the running and the stuff that has to do with the grip. Those are the two most common complaints or concerns that people have after they do an OCR race. But you already got the running down. I think you're probably going to be fine with

the running. The hand stuff, I'd say you're probably okay. If you could pull 405 at 151, you're probably going to be okay, maybe work on some stamina with that. So I wouldn't worry too much. And then the last thing I'll say is this, people are so worried after they gain muscle that if they lose it, it's gonna take as long as it took him the first time they gained a back. Even easier. It's super fast.

Once you gain it, like that's the hard part. The first time you gain muscle is the hard part. The second, third, fourth, fifth time, way different. It's way different and way easier. So, if you do lose five pounds of muscle and maybe before it took you four or five months to gain it, you'll gain it back in a few weeks. Don't trip. Selfishly, if I was your coach, I would actually love to see you run OCR to a tee and see with your background and already where you're strength to weight ratio.

You're like a top guy. Yeah, I think you could actually, I think you could procken be a top guy that finishes in his first, you know, first OCR race. So there's a selfish part of me as a coach. I'd be like, let's see what we can, let's see what we can do with your, you're with Hunter Matt. Yeah, your ability is already, I bet we can make you win this goddamn. Yeah, you've almost got the perfect body type for OCR, your body weight and your strength in your background. Yeah. And with your competitive background, I'm going to assume you're a competitive body type for OCR, your body weight and your strength in your background.

And with your competitive background, I'm gonna assume you're a competitive individual. Have some fun with it, man. Go out there and see what you can do. Maybe it's something you fall in love with and it becomes a new passion. Well, I will. Thank you guys so much.

And I guess I know I'm only gonna spend as one but a quick question, which song I'm gonna have for this. Which should you run after this? Well, you've done the map. Go back to strength for sure. Yeah, I would go, have you done map strong? Strong, yeah.

No, I haven't. That was my next one I wanted to look into. Yeah, we'll send that to you. Yeah, if you don't have that, I'll send that over to you. So, give follow up. Thank you, thank you guys so much. You got it, man. Thanks for listening to the show.

Appreciate it. Oh, quick. Thank you guys. Have a great day. You too. Yeah, I get the the by the way, I Want to be clear when I give advice or when all of us give advice on the podcast We're in trainer mode that doesn't mean that we don't feel the same way when it's our own selves

I know what even now that's why I wanted to share that Totally because I I was exactly why I can't say I was exactly like this because he's got a runner background And I don't I don't know what his motivation of OCR is But I was in a point literally this was we're playing video games my two best friends of myself We're playing video games. We were doing something. Yeah, exactly right probably smoking some weed right and and they taught Maybe I was smoking weed and that's what they're making fun of me and they're making fun of me that I I didn't have I won't have the endurance because I smoke and now I'm all this like big meathead and I was just like No, I'll get out there and smoke here at both of your asses right now and that.

And they're both ex athletes from school when we were kids and stuff like that. Did you end up beating them by the way? I did. So, shout out to the audience. Although it was fucking hard, I'm not gonna lie, because I did have this attitude of like, listen, I just need to train a little bit,

a little bit of cardio and get my cardio up there and then I'll be able to end maybe some grip strength stuff because I was pretty, I think at that time I was like, two 30, two 25 somewhere around there, so I was, did you guys have to dive in that cold water for the plunge? So I did tough mudder, and tough mudder, I think is a little bit easier than Spartans,

a little more running, like tough mudder they do, or excuse me, not tough mudder, I'm sorry, muddy buddy. So they actually, you split half running, half biking, And you have a partner and you go back and forth. So anyways, the plug later on Google muddy buddy. My point, my point though of bringing that up so he knows is that I know as a coach, I would want him to run through OCR, stick to it just the way it is, understand that when he gets out of that, he's going to be totally fine. But I also, his, his probably his sentiment, it resonates with me because I didn't do that. I didn't go from meathead, Adam, training to like, oh, I'm going to train OCR like because I'm going to go do it. No, gain the muscle back, release it. Yeah, no, I was like,

I cared so much about what I had built and I didn't want to, even if it was a short regression back and I know better, I was like, I don't need to. I could, but then, but I want to be very clear, my goal wasn't to be the best OCR racer. I just needed to beat my two fucking slept friends here. It's all I need to do. Like, I did not. I don't think I'm listening to the fuck now. If I, if I, one of them does, right? If I wanted to be the best OCR racer. I would have absolutely committed to training like an OCR racer, like what we wrote the program. Yeah, I get it too. It's like, I know if I lost five pounds of muscle,

it would be easy to gain it back. That still doesn't mean I don't freak out if there's an opportunity to lose five pounds of muscle. It still doesn't mean you don't want to either. Exactly, I get it. I totally get it. But the advice that we're giving is accurate, even if we don't necessarily take it ourselves sometimes.

All right, and next caller is Kyle from Maryland. Hey Kyle, how can we help you? Hey guys, how are you doing? Hi. Thank you. Good. Thank you for allowing me to come on here and ask my question, and as always, thank you for all that you guys do for the community. My question is specifically in regards to trigger or mobility days.

So I'm currently in phase two of Maps performance. My question is specifically in regards to trigger or mobility days. So I'm currently in phase two of maps performance. My second time running performance, bought at the beginning of last year, ran it then, and then I ran anabolic, finished up anabolic, moved back into performance. Through anabolic, felt great, kind of stuck to the trigger sessions as programs moved into performance. Through anabolic felt great, kind of stuck to the trigger sessions as programs moved into performance and on the mobility sessions I seem to be overdoing it.

So when you guys talk about practicing a movement or kind of tailoring your guys programs towards an individual, would you suggest maybe doing some of these movements such as practicing like a clean or a yoke walk towards the end of a foundational day, or would you suggest keeping it on a mobility day, but when you talk about practicing and like a weight, are we thinking like 20 to 30% of like a max, or I tend to find myself maybe in like a 50 to 60% weight wise of a max, so having a few more aches and pains through performance, so just looking for some guidance

on maybe tailoring it more towards what I continue to like to do with being a little bit more athletic and looking forward to hearing from what you guys have to say. Okay, well, so here's a nice rule of thumb. When you feel like you're overdoing it, your body's talking to you and you feel like, this might be a little bit too much, aches, pain, stiff, drowsiness. Drowsiness, you're well.

Drowsiness, you're well. Drowsiness, if you think you are, you're probably... Yeah, well, I mean, in other words, you are, but here's the rule of thumb. The first thing that I would change is the intensity. That's the first factor, the first component, to manipulate. So rather than taking those movements out,

just reduce the intensity way down. Start with that. So you said 20 to 30%. Do that. Just bring the intensity way down. And what ends up happening is they end up start they start to become more recovery minded. They start to facilitate recovery more than creating damage. Now if that doesn't work, then I would start to take movements out and just include more rest.

You would do that with what he brought up like care, yoke carries and what it was the other one. Like those are the greens. Yeah, Farmer Walks. Yeah, not really something. Yeah, Farmer Walks, yeah. Probably something I would put on my foundational days and then add that to the end of my work. Yeah, I mean, you could say that, but also too, I mean, there's a way to do Farmer Walks where you're really just hyper focused on your posture. Yes, sure.

You're in more of a posture walk. Yes. And I think that that would be a good option for you to carry weights that aren't like super demanding and just really just focus on keeping your body under control, and great posture, and stacked well. So I think there's a way to do it. And I think that you're on the right track in terms of thinking you need to reduce your intensity

and kind of bring that down because I honestly, I think there's a lot of value in practicing these movements at a really, really low intensity. Totally. You see a lot of Olympians do this specifically, so they hone in on the skill of that specific movement. So totally. In the comment, like on the other side of the question, which was should I put them on foundational days Technically doing all the exercises that are hard on one day is going to be more demanding than even splitting them up and doing them more frequently So I know that sounds sometimes counterintuitive

But it's not it's actually worse to do all the intense stuff on one day Rather than just lowering the intensity and doing those movements on the following day. So that's where I would start. I would start doing exactly what Justin is saying. There's a lot of value in those movements with lightweight. There's tons. And you just really, you're just,

and if you ever watch, I don't know if Justin's ever done a video on this, but I'll see him sometimes doing these in the studio where he's doing a farmer walk, and he's holding like, 40 know, 40 pound dumbbells, which is, you know, he can easily do these with 120 pound dumbbells, but he's walking with like super purpose,

very focused, you know, postures perfect, it's heel toe, it's lined up, it's activated core, and so he's making a lot out of that movement, but the damage on the body is super low. And in many cases, it actually facilitates recovery. Are all those movements in performance? All of them are? Not the power cleans, but high pulls are.

And I suggest actually to a lot of athletes to replace that the second time you run it with cleans if that's a full tip. So to me, that's what I would do with some of these movements that you like doing. Is I would find exercises inside performance and replace it on my foundational days and then stick solely to mobility on mobility days.

Yeah, that's another myth. That's what I would find movements that are in performance that you could interchange some of these movements in there and I'd put it on my foundation. I still would take the advice though of having days where I go light. Yeah, and because I do this right so all every once in a while you'll see me kick my shoes off. I'll go barefoot and you'll see me do these carries with a lightweight and I'm just I'm paying attention to my my foot hits the ground and I'm like actually like gripping my toes on the grass while I walk and I'm thinking about my posture, my chest is high, I'm tucking my chin,

and I'm just thinking about every part of the movement and I'm more focused on how I move than I am, how strong I am. But then maybe I'll come back on the next week and I'm like, you know, I now wanna test my strength a little bit, so then I do wanna carry some heavy weight. When I do those, I definitely want to replace it with something else that's probably intense

inside the foundational days and it would go there. And I, I mean, this is all personal, right? So this isn't, you have to do it this way, but I like in performance, I like sticking to mobility work, like that is switching that mindset of, that's a good point. It's just, this is all about mobility and active recovery. I don't like blending my active recovery type of mindset with something that is challenging

like that, like that where I'm going to be pushing the intensity or even an exercise that I like to push the intensity because then I'm more likely to do that where it's like, it's just like, and we tease Sal sometimes about his music and stuff, but this is where I even shift my music, right? I do that. It's mobility. I don't wanna throw Lamma God or Rage against the machine on when I'm doing mobility.

I'm gonna do something like that's when I listen to my hip hop, right, I'm gonna listen to something kind of easy listening to our country, that's right. So I'll listen to something like that. And it's a whole mindset, right? That's my mobility days are, you know, and I had to do this because I come from a place of the overtraining and pushing the intensity all the time

and always wanting to see what I can do. And so, you know, when I go into my mobility days, I don't like to muddy that or convoluted it with some other type of movement that I'm gonna be more likely to push intense. And you know, consider this too, Kyle, if a movement is too much, then that means it has no value. So what you don't wanna do is get stuck in the,

oh man, I don't wanna skip that exercise because it's such a valuable exercise. Well, if that exercise is too much, it's not valuable. So I think we sometimes we do that, we think, oh, I don't wanna skip cleans, I don't wanna skip farmer's walk, those are so good. So I think we sometimes we do that. We think, oh, I don't want to skip cleans. I don't want to skip farmer's walk. Those are so good. And they are when they're appropriate,

when they're not appropriate, they're not valuable. So that's the mentality that you have to have when you're trained. But honestly, intensity, if people just manipulated intensity appropriately, you could get away with doing a lot of stuff. You really could. So you don't necessarily, and what Adam said about mindset

is totally true, but you can also do this, and I've done this before. I've done traditional exercises, let's say traditional bodybuilding exercises with the mobility mentality. So like, if I'm gonna do squats to build my muscle, I might have three 15 on there, 365. If I'm doing it for mobility, it's 135.

I'm going slow. I'm sitting at the bottom. Yeah, I'm challenging my range of motion. Now it's like a mobility movement. Does that make sense? Right. Yes. Okay.

Do you have NAPS Prime Pro or Prime, by the way, because I think those are really nice. Okay. Yes, I do. All right, there's nothing that doesn't say also that on those other days, you just take some individualized correctional exercise, mobility movements from Prime Pro,

and doing those in replace of the mobility sessions that are in performance, just to make it more individualized. That's also an option. I also want to commend you for having the awareness too, of knowing that you're probably overreaching a bit, because your body's trying to talk to you. It's amazing to me how many people, including myself, ignore those signals, you know, and want to

just keep pushing through it. And so the fact that you already recognize that your body's kind of talking to you, I need to modify or change something. It's the right question you're asking. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. No problem, Kyle. Thanks for calling in. Absolutely. Thank you guys. Thank you. You know, it's a little frustrating

when they have the programs I want to give them for free. So I didn't, I guess I didn't realize that we programmed all of those into performance. I'm trying to picture where they're where they're. Yeah, so we actually have those in some of the mobility days and they're specifically Yeah, so we actually have those in some of the mobility days and they're specifically for like like farmer walks for instance. Like athletes. Yeah, it's for athletes. It's also supposed to be light. It's not supposed to be like a super demanding one. That's why I don't

want to walk. It's not programmed into foundation. Dude, it's in like because we have a couple different versions of mobility sessions in there. Yeah, and I'll tell you, man, uh farmer walks and overhead carries in these movements. Okay, I'm diving deep in these. Those movements done light versus heavy, totally different. No, you're right. It's such a different experience. It's such a great thing that I think most people don't do.

And it was a great opportunity to highlight that because I've seen all of us do that. I've seen all of us have a day where you're doing something really, really light that traditionally is done with a lot of load. And that's what it looks like. I love to kick my shoes off on that. That's exactly how it's gonna bring up. Yeah, I do that barefoot. It's a perfect time to do that.

Yeah, I do. But okay, so here's the, I don't do a single thing. Just to give an example for someone listening or watching, that's like, well, what is the weight difference between the two? Because that's a big question, right? What do you mean lower intensity? Do I drop the weight in half?

I'll give you an example. If I do trap bar, uh, uh, uh, uh, farmer walks, that's a trap bar deadlift bar, and I'll do a farmer walk. If I'm going heavy, I'll go up to four or five, four, fifty five. That's the heavy version. When I'm going light, it's 135, 100 pounds. That's how big the difference is. I mean, but what we're talking about.

The truth is, the weight should not be that actually relevant. Well, I'm saying that, just so people know. It's so light. Yes. I almost think it's like, I just want to be holding something. It's about controlling your body. Yes, yes. Yes, yes.

So it's like, you know, you pick a weight that, the thing that, you know, when you stop your set, it's not because it got too heavy for you to hold. You know what I'm saying? So, absolutely. Our next caller is Dan from Alberta. Dan, what's going on, man? Hey, guys.

First of all, I wanted to say thanks for the opportunity to talk to you guys, and thanks for all the content you put out. I've found it really helpful. What I was wondering from you guys is, how would you recommend programming for a strong man style event? Like specifically, what is the best way to incorporate carries, sled, drags, it pushes?

I've done a couple of competitions over the past few years. My performance in these events have been pretty mediocre and after three years, I'm having a hard time just, my performance in these events have been pretty mediocre. And after three years, I'm having a hard time just improving my performance. I find the weights easy to move, but what my difficulty is is lowering my time for each event. Last year, I tried doing maps and a ball at all of their performance and then events specific training and I found not much improvement so I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong. Okay Dan, I got I got some time every once

in a while we get a question where I have the perfect answer. I know it's like wow it's weird because we literally created this program that you're hoping for. Do you have map strong? I do not know. We're gonna send that to you. So yes since it was written for exactly what Yes, so we wrote map strong with Robert Obers. He's a professional strong man competitor. It was literally written Strong man style training. That's the best program that we have for exactly what you're asking for I'm gonna send that over to you But because the answer so easy and fast, let's get a little bit deeper. Let's talk about your,

well let's go ahead. Let's talk about what is something he said specifically that I think is very unique to this program that is going to benefit him tremendously, and that's the work sessions. Oh yeah, that's what it's for. Because he just talked about how the weight, his strength seems to be fine,

but he's not improving his time. So it's a quite, yeah. So's not improving his time, so isn't quite there. Yeah, so I mean, the work capacity that you get from training those work sessions is, I guarantee every one of your events, you're faster at. Yeah, it's literally perfect for what you're asking for, but the other side of the question I was asked

is it has to do a little bit more with your nutrition. I want to make sure that that's not holding you back. Are you tracking your food and fueling your body properly? I know strong man competitors benefit from having a little bit more size and weight on their bodies. And so, if your nutrition isn't fueling that, it can definitely make things a little bit more challenging. Are you tracking your food?

I do not track my food currently, no. Okay, what's your body weight? And how tall are you? I'm six two, right now I'm sitting on a heavy side for me at two, 15. Okay, normally when I'm ready for competition, I'm down to like 190, 190 size. Okay, so I would track your protein,

let's get you at least 200 grams of protein and maybe double that in carbohydrates and then you can make up the difference with fat in your diet to hit the calories that you're looking for. And try to break that up throughout the day just because it's easier to digest. That's a lot of food. And then map strong dude, map strong is going to be perfect for what you're looking for. You should see some performance gains with map strong because it was literally designed

to help people do better at strong man competitions and then people who don't compete, when they follow MAP Strong, they just get the muscle and aesthetic benefits and typically looks like a well-developed back glutes, traps and shoulders. Those are the muscles that tend to develop the most in that program. Great, that sounds awesome. Thank you. No problem, Dan. We'll send that over to you. Right.

Dan's been listening to the show for two episodes. I thought we'd been trolled right there. Absolutely. No, actually, okay, so this is a good topic to kind of add to. Or he's really smart and just one of the pros. Yeah, that was my other topic. Isn't that great? You know, I really know sounds like so.

Yeah, but you wouldn't have to know any good ideas. You know, I'm trying to get aesthetic looking. I also would like some performance. I'd like to feel more animal-like. I can't talk about this. It's a good topic because when you're looking for performance in a specific either sport or in a specific way, nothing is going to improve your performance like training specifically for that. You can get general improvements in performance,

like a squat is going to, getting better a squat is gonna improve your legs, general performance, but if you wanna get really good at sprinting, you're gonna want to do specific exercises for sprinting. In this case, it was strong man competitions. So you know, Annabalik's gonna help a little bit,

performance is gonna help a little bit, especially if he hasn't trained before. Yeah, we're about to lift heavy and have to move with the weight, which is a whole another dynamic component to strong man lifting. Also, rounded back type lifting. Yes. So we have all of that is incorporated in that program, so it's the perfect one. And I will say this, this is, and I did not expect this until I followed MAP strong, and then I say, oh, I can't wait to see what the reviews look like.

It's one of the most popular programs that we have for both men and women, but women. It's a prize of women. It's MAP Strong, all the poster your chain focus. Yes, the posture, the body, it's such a popular, it's probably one of my top three favorite MAPs programs, just for overall muscle and strength. Our next color is Mike from Delaware. What's up, Mike? How can we help you? Hi guys. I've really enjoyed your podcast and wanted to thank you for having me,

allow me to ask a question. Just a quick background, I'm 53, going to be 54 this summer, came up on my 50s and the worst shape of my life and decided to set some pretty audacious bucket list goals. And one of those was centered around fitness and I quickly discovered new about myself. If I didn't set a big goal, I probably wouldn't stick with it. So I went from nothing to setting a goal to win a over 50 bodybuilding competition. I'm happy to report that within three years

of dedicated work and some great help from folks like Craig Capruzo and my trainer at the YMCA, I achieved my goal. Good job right on, man. Yeah. So it's been a really fun ride. I've, I feel great. I'm in the probably second best shape of my life. Maybe the best shape was when I was in the military, but the, um,

I achieved that goal and I sent my photos into the judge and said, what do you think? How could I do better? And not really thinking that I'd want to do another competition per se, but he said, you know, if you put on three to four pounds of lean muscle, you'd be competitive on a national stage. So that just totally reset my paradigm, I guess. And now I'm considering prepping to do another competition. And I don't know if that's a realistic goal for somebody my age. I feel great about what I've achieved, but I went from like two 10 and 23% body fat to the day I walked on stage. I was about 164 and by my little

resistance scale, I was somewhere around 11% body fat. But I don't know if I can, I've done pretty good at shredding, but I don't know if I can get bigger or not. Yeah, okay, that's a pretty good question. Doug just pulled up your photos. Look really good, bud. Is that him right there? Yeah, that's him right there. Wow, fantastic. Yeah, by the way, say hi to Craig for us,

a good friend of ours. Yeah. Okay, so is this pot, first off, I wanna say something about bodybuilding judges. They're always gonna say something like that. Keep it coming back. Yeah, and be very careful. Don't get caught in the trap of sacrificing your health

for a trophy, because it's an easy thing to do, especially once you start winning. Now, is it possible to gain three to four pounds of muscle? It totally is. It is, it's gonna be hard, but it's totally possible. And you did indicate in the written part of your question that you're doing this without any hormone treatment, anything like that? It's totally natural, is that correct? Yeah, and you mentioned Craig, I don't want to overstep anywhere. He's been

invaluable to me in this process, has done a great job and he's he's suggested I look into that and he also put me on to your podcast. I I become a mind pump junkie. I listen to it when I'm driving all the time. So, and so I just am hesitant and I'm seeking information, I guess. No, that's a good question. What, you know what, Mike, we have a free hormone forum that is, you know, managed by actual hormone doctors. I believe it's mind-pump hormones on Facebook.

So you can go there, join there, you can ask any questions. Now, I'm going to give you what they've said before on this particular question, but I do want to make sure you know I'm not the doctor, I'm not a hormone specialist. Now, what they have said is that you can go on testosterone replacement therapy, go back off, and you'll go back to where you were before with the right kind of treatment.

So a lot of people believe once you go on, you have to stay on, that's not necessarily true. Now my advice is this, I don't think it's a good idea to go on hormone replacement therapy just to build more muscle. I think it's more of a improve your quality of life thing. If you get your hormones checked and you feel good and you're not bad and you're doing okay,

I don't necessarily see why you would need to go on them. Now, would you gain muscle on hormone replacement therapy? Yeah, I mean, if it raises your testosterone, it can probably help. But if your quality of life is great and you're healthy, I don't necessarily see the need for it, especially not for bodybuilding. I really don't see the value in it for competing on stage,

especially if that's not your absolute passion. I do think it's totally possible to gain three to four pounds of muscle. You just started working out a few years ago. Three to four pounds is totally possible by manipulating your training and your diet and really fine tuning things with everything and maybe the pre-contest diet portion,

working on that a little bit. And then last thing I'll say, and Adam's, you know, he said this many times and I'd love his input on this. Sometimes the way you, how lean you come in or how conditioned you look makes you look easily three or four pounds more muscular. So you don't necessarily have more muscle, you just got to look like you have more muscle.

Yeah, Mike, you, you, you sound like a client that I would love to train because you seem like the type of guy that if I, whatever I tell you to do, you're going to follow to a tee based off of the discipline it takes to get yourself in the kind of shape you did and the time you did it, which I think is awesome. I think if you were my client, I would actually just kind of challenge the way you're thinking as far as like, you know,

we can stay in this bodybuilding phase and we can bring you an even better physique the next time around and I had a lot of fun doing that. So I did six shows over the course of three years and had a blast doing it and I'm very competitive. So what turned into a thing of first proving, can I do it? And then I did it, I got on stage and placed like fifth my very first show which gave me kind of the bug

and because I'm competitive I then turned it into, okay, let me get on a national stage. See if I can do that, I did that, then I took my first first place show, and then I went pro, and so it became this very, very fun, challenging time of my life that I enjoyed. Now I also sacrificed a lot of other things

during that time. I probably wasn't the best partner. I know both in business and in my relationship because I was so consumed with myself and my sport and what I was doing. If you have that freedom to do that and maybe you don't have the same type of responsibilities that you maybe had 10, 20 years ago or whatever,

then why not? We could do this. We could definitely bring you into the next show, leaner and tighter, a couple pounds more muscle on you and do that. Now, if you were allowing me to be coach and say, you know, what do you think Adam, I'm at 50 something years old,

I just put myself in some of the best shape of my life, what's another good goal for me to do? I would love to make you run through something like a maps powerlifting, let's see what we can do with your strength, or I would love to put you through maps performance and a map's power lift. And let's see what we can do with your strength. Or I would love to put you through a map's performance and say, you know what, dude, let's, let's, let's see how much we can improve your mobility.

Let's, let's check out your squat, let's check out your dead, let's check out some of your movements. And let's, let's see if we can improve some of these, these movements and get you not only looking the best of your living life, but now let's start looking at the, the best movement or feeling the best you've ever felt in your life. And I would take your same attitude and discipline that you obviously apply to competing bodybuilding

and I would want you to apply that in maybe a direction towards bodybuilding or maybe a direction towards powerlifting or strength, right? So if you allowed me that, right? If you allowed me to intervene on your goals and what you would do, what you're open to doing, that's where I would push you because I think you would, you would overall benefit the most from that. But if, if you're focused on the bodybuilding thing to your original question, absolutely, we can put on three to five pounds

of muscle, we could do that naturally. In fact, especially a body that's been as lean as you've been, coming back the other direction is some of the best muscle gains I've ever had is after I've dieted really hard for a show. I reintroduced calories, I changed my programming up a bit, and I guarantee muscle is going to come on your body even at your age. So long as hormones are fine, which I'm assuming they probably are if your body is responding the way it is. So you know, the answer is really is diving into what is it Mike, you really want to get out of this. And if bodybuilding is something you find you're passionate about right now, absolutely,

we can go after that and bring an even better physique on the next show. But if you were open to suggestions and ideas, I would want to push you in the direction of let's get let's get really hyper focused now on mobility for a while or hey, let's work on strength and see what we can do with with your discipline there. Such great advice out of my I 100% agree. And then as far as a hormone stuff in your question you asked about, you know, chances of cancer with increased testosterone. The best studies now show that your your cancer risk actually goes up with low testosterone, not with high testosterone.

Of course, we're talking about within the range of what's considered healthy. We're not talking about super physiological bodybuilding doses. Nobody knows what the hell that will do long-term. But again, we're not doctors. So if you go on that forum, you can ask questions. And if you want a consultation, you can actually talk to an expert and then ask those questions. We're not the ones that are, you know, we're not qualified, really to answer anything,

any questions along those lines, but you're in a pretty damn good place, Mike, at your age, getting to where you did. What Adam said is great, and I think if you did that, if you went mass performance or power lift, I think it would be great for your body. It's very than what you were doing before and that might be what actually puts that muscle on your body because it's so so much more strength and performance focused And if you don't have those programs, we can send that over to you Mike Oh gosh that no, I don't it and I don't want to ask for that I mean, I this has just really, really helpful just in Adam. I love what you're going to.

I don't want to take this as part of a larger goal I have, which, far the reason I've enjoyed your show so much. I'm an ag guy. I grew up the farm the way, and I was still working agriculture. And my real dream is to give a TED Talk. And my TED Talk was to say how I want an over 50 bodybuilding competition eating GMOs, whole milk, and eggs. So I've enjoyed the Z-biotics episodes and things like that.

And so much of what you say just makes sense. And I, I, I, it's all I say, the competition piece, I like where you're going with that atom that, that makes a lot of sincere suggestions because the competition was, I, I don't, I don't have a burning desire to go back on stage, but I am very competitive. And when they kind of threw that carrot out there, I was like, well, I wonder, I like pushing myself for something that I never thought I could do. I could tell. I could tell. Let's read it out.

Yeah, I could tell. And that's why I said you'd do. Do you sign up for a powerlifting company? Yeah, I read one of those clients that I used to love to get a hold of. You're very rare. And when I get a hold of a client like you, I would try my best to influence you on what I thought would be best for you. And if you allowed me to do that right now, that's kind of the direction I think I would push you

considering that your main goal isn't just to be the best bodybuilder in the world. That's just, you basically set that goal for yourself and fucking crushed it. And now I'd be challenging. All right, let's look for some other goals and other pursuits within health and fitness what you what else you could do. I bet a powerlifting competition would be a blast, but you'd have a lot of fun doing that.

And they have age categories for that and of course weight categories. So it's a pretty, you know, somewhat level playing field. I bet that would be a lot of fun. Yeah, and even if you didn't get in compete on on stage and that, I think just competing with yourself saying, okay, let's check where your your deadlift, your squat, your benches, and let's write a program and follow it and dial in your diet and let's see how much we can improve that over the next three to six months. We'll send those over to you, Mike, okay? Josh, guys, thank you so much.

Thanks for what you're doing. Really enjoy your show and keep it up. And thanks, thanks for answering my questions and giving me some ideas. Yeah, no problem. And send Craig our love. Yeah, yeah problem. And sin, Craig, our love. Yeah, yeah. Keep us posted, Mike. Let us know how you do.

I sure will. Thanks so much. Thank you. That's a great position to be in. Oh, I love it. Yeah, you could tell. I could tell this is like one of my favorite type of clients to train right here.

You know, totally. I mean, you got the discipline at his age to put himself in that kind of shape and to get up on stage like that and perform that well. Like, that's one of the things I love that I loved about competing is in why I know what we've I ragged on it a lot early on in the show when we first started, but it did have tremendous value as far as the one disciplining yourself to be that consistent for that long of a period time to get there. And then you learn so much about your own body

and diet and how it responds to things by going to that level. That's why I was trying to, after you said math power lift, like so many bells went off from me as well. Be so perfect. That makes so much sense. It's competitive, it's objective, right?

It's not judged. It's you lift the waiter you don't. And it's a different direction than body building. Nobody cares how you look. It's all about how much you lift, and I've found that. That would be private yourself, you know, and nutritionally, yeah, it's now, it's like, let's really add into that and build the muscle.

So exactly what he needs to, if you wanted to go back to power, I'll buy you a building. I bet you that's what puts the three, four pounds muscle on him. So that would be my guess. Well, that's kind of where I was thinking too, is like, he wouldn't have to abandon this whole idea of maybe even competing again. Yeah, it can be down the road. Yeah, go run, go chase strength for a while, get really good at that, try and improve that.

And it'll only feed into his physique if he wants to go compete maybe next year. Totally. Hey, look, if you like our podcast, head over to MindPumpFree.com and check out all of our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness goal. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump Sal and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

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