Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1741: Ways to Break Through a Training Plateau, Tips to Get Better Results from Your Workouts, the Best Way for High School Students to Train & More

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Counting your calories and macros is a TERRIBLE approach for long-term weight loss. (4:53) Sal explains why he told someone to add 1,000 calories over their maintenance. (17:57) You can’t make this stuff up! (31:25) Mind Pump on the unintended consequences of the Neuralink. (32:41) A high school football update with Justin: The lack of nutrition with high school athletes and how Butcher Box can help. (41:54) How subscription models like Public Goods, are less likely to be affected by inflation. (47:10) Can alcohol, or other substances like alcohol, increase your longevity? (48:53) #ListenerLive question #1 - What are your thoughts on the supplement, Nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN)? (58:39) #ListenerLive question #2 - What are some ways to move like an athlete, but look like a bodybuilder? (1:10:47) #ListenerLive question #3 - How do you know when you have reached your genetic muscle-building potential? (1:17:59) #ListenerLive question #4 - What would be the best fitness approach for teaching/training high school students in the classroom and the weight room? (1:32:44) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] February Promotion: MAPS Performance and MAPS Aesthetic 50% off!! **Promo code “FEB50” at checkout** Mind Pump #1207: Five Ways To Lose Weight Without Counting Calories MAPS Macro Calculator Mind Pump #LiveListener question - Add 10-15 Pounds of Muscle In A Year Truck carrying 100 LAB MONKEYS crashes on Pennsylvania highway Elon Musk's Neuralink One Step Closer To Testing Microchip Implants In Human Brain Elon Musk’s Neuralink explains how a monkey used its brain-computer tech to play Pong Thinking, Fast and Slow – Book by Daniel Kahneman JRE#1470 - Elon Musk Reveals New Details About Neuralink, His Brain Implant Technology Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer! Visit Public Goods for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Receive $15 off your first Public Goods order with NO MINIMUM purchase** Alcohol Consumption and the Risk of Cancer Ancient Aliens Full Episodes, Video & More | HISTORY Channel Visit NED for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) Uses & Dosage Creatinine - Examine.com Sexy Athlete Bundle | MAPS Fitness Products RGB Bundle | MAPS Fitness Products Muscle Potential Calculator – Mind Pump Media Mind Pump #1322: What’s Your Real Muscle Building Potential? (And How To Get There…) Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum MAPS Fitness Anabolic MAPS Strong Mind Pump #1627: Eight Stupid & Dangerous Fitness Lies Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Elon Musk (@elonmusk)  Twitter

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode is a live one. People actually called in from around the world and asked us questions about fitness and health and we got to coach them on air live. By the way, if you want to be on one of these live episodes, email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com.

Now, we open the episode with an intro portion. This is 47 minutes long today. This is where we talk about current events and studies and we bring up our sponsors. After that 47 minute intro, we get to those live questions. So here's what we're down to today's show. We opened up by talking about how tracking and counting calories and macros is a horrible weight loss approach for long term success. Then we talked about one of our previous episodes.

Why did I tell somebody to add a thousand calories over their maintenance? Then we talked about the Epstein bar connection to certain diseases and lab monkeys that escaped. There were lab monkeys that escaped and thankfully the CDC caught them all. Sounds like a sci-fi movie. Then we talked about Neural Link, what's going on there.

We talked about the high school morning workouts that Justin is taking his football team through. And that led us to talking about butcher box because they all want wanna eat more protein and more meat to get stronger. And butcher box is a company that delivers grass fed high quality meats to your door. By the way, if you sign up, you get ground beef for life

in every single box. The prices are low. It gets mailed again to your house. There's very little middlemen, so it stands inflation much better than everything else right now. Quality inexpensive, it can be beat. Go check them out. Head over to butcherbox.com forward slash mind pump. Then we talk about inflation, it's exploding, which let us are talking about another one of our sponsors, public goods. You can get all kinds of household products, cleaning supplies. You can get shampoos and soaps, things for your pets. They

minimal impact on the climate, low chemicals or no chemicals in the products. And the prices are exceptional. Actually, right now you can get $15 off your first purchase. If you go to mindpumppartners.com, click on public goods, use the code MindPump and sign up. Then we got to the questions. So the first one was asked by Joe from New Jersey. He wanted to know what the effects of the supplement known as NNNR. And if it was right for him, then we talked to Colby from North Carolina. This person wants to move like an athlete, but wants to look like a bodybuilder. What do I do? The third question was from Nicholas from Massachusetts. This particular person, they've been working out for a long time,

the 38 years old, their bodies aren't responding like they used to. So we talked about training as you got older. Then we talked to Sarah from Connecticut. This is a high school teacher, wants to know what the best fitness approach is for high school students, because she's teaching a course on fitness health and adaptations. Also, it's February. This is a great month because my birthday is this month, but it's also a great month because we're running an excellent promotion. So check this out. Two maps programs on sale, both half off.

And you get the best of both worlds with both programs. So the first program, maps, performance, train like an athlete, look like an athlete, move like an athlete. If you like to work out, so you can actually do stuff, maps, performance is the perfect program. And then we have maps aesthetic. Maps aesthetic is a bodybuilder-inspired program. This is for people who just want to look really good.

They will look sexy. They will have balanced, developed muscles. By the way, you can do them both. It's a great combination together. We call that the sexy athlete combination. Nonetheless, get one or get both. They're both half off. Here's what you do. Go to maps fitnessproducts.com, click on maps aesthetics or click on maps performance or do both. Just use the code feb50 feb50 no space for 50% off both programs T-shirt time Shit, though you know it's my favorite time of the week. Yes, you were the again It's hit again. We have three winners for Apple podcasts, three winners

for Facebook, the Apple podcast winners are Joey C hack, C Walker 062715 and Adam Wannabe. We have for Facebook, Jack Mick Innery and Kamala Royce Dana and Nash Hayward. All six of you are winners. In the name I just read to iTunes at mimepumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Counting your calories, tracking your macros, is a terrible long-term weight loss and fat loss approach. Whoa. I know people get really upset with one.

I feel like you're personally attacking me. No. Okay, so. So I have my six pack bags today. No, here's the deal. I'm fair through that away. No, here's the deal. Look, understanding calories and food and proteins, fats and carbohydrates is an important piece of the learning process.

But as a long-term approach, it's terrible because what you don't want to do, and this I've seen this countless times, is nobody wants to live, unless you're fanatic, right? Nobody wants to live a life where they're constantly counting calories, constantly tracking macros, Wayne measuring food. It's neurotic, and it's actually a pretty short, good shortcut towards dysfunctional eating habits. The long term approach always, it's always good to, you want to know stuff stuff, you wanna be educated on food,

but you have to work on your behaviors because you want your eating habits to feel natural and comfortable, not stressful and tracking and counting because stressful eating leads to dysfunction. So now that being said, there's a huge importance around the education piece of learning, like, I mean, how many times

you guys got a client who doesn't even know what a carb or a protein or a fat really is? And then is completely off when you ask them how many calories they're eating and then they actually do track it and you realize they were totally underestimating what they were eating.

So since we know that, right, and we've experienced that, and the only way for them to figure that out is to track. So what does that process look like? So is it, okay, we're going to track, even though I believe this is a bad idea long term for your weight loss, but I also recognize that we've gotta have an idea of what you're consuming on a regular basis.

It's a foundational piece to build off of that, right? Like you need the education and the know-how of what you're putting in your body is gonna affect you. And so to be able to track is crucial in the beginning in terms of just having the awareness of, like for some of my clients just having snacks and nuts, for example, like that being more calories than they even anticipated,

you know, really played a major factor in them trying to lose weight. So, you know, it's just more eye opening to go through the process. And then eventually you understand yourself and your patterns more effectively. Because I feel like common practice in our space is when you're on and you're training, you're dieting, you're tracking, when you're off, you're off.

And that's just this. And the office is way off. Right, office, no tracking, eating, eating like an asshole, you know, putting on the weight, not exercising, all the stuff, right? And then, okay, I'm getting started again, call up my trainer, Adam, hey, what's up, dude, I want to get back in it.

I fell off over the holidays, let's get going again, and then, okay, we're back to tracking, and then we do that for six months, getting some good shape, and then the cycle starts over again. So when you guys are starting with a client, and you understand the value of tracking for educational purposes, but you know the long- goal is to get them to not track again, what does that conversation look like when you when you when you first start with them? Well, it starts in the beginning. So first off, it's back up for a second.

Is the obesity epidemic? So and we have to separate getting shredded and just general health, right? Because if you want to get shredded, you're probably gonna have to track things need to be much more specific. I'm glad you said that. We're not talking to competitive people. No, if you're a man and you have good eating, behavior, good relationship to food and exercise,

you're gonna sit around 12 to 16% body fat, right? This is kind of a healthy body fat range. You're relatively lean. You're not gonna be, unless you're genetically gifted or you exercise that great, you're not going to be 7% 6% body fat, just from kind of, you know, living your life and eating, you know, relatively healthy. That comes from really being specific, really tracking. So those are two separate things. But the obesity epidemic is not the result of lack of information and lack of understanding of calories and what makes this overweight or overeating.

I think it's pretty well established. We know what caused that. Overweight people tend to know what caused that. And yet, there's still 70, 80, 100 pounds overweight at time. So the real issue is are the behaviors. Is the dysfunctional relationship that we have with food where it becomes a drug. We self-medicate with it.

We have a bad relationship with it. We eat past the point of satiety. We don't identify bad behaviors that we have with nutrition. We hate our bodies, like all these different things. So I think it has to start in the beginning along with tracking, because the tracking gives you the information, like you need to know what a serving of chicken and rice

or whatever it looks like for your body type. But beyond that, if you don't identify the real behaviors, here's what will happen. You'll have these, you'll still have these dysfunctions, but now you're fit, you fit the dysfunctions within this, you know, rigid box of tracking. And then eventually that bought, you break out of that box. And that's where you get the binge and you get the off the wagon and you get the weight loss and the weight

gain type of deal that we see in everybody, right? So it's, it is white, you know, the vast majority of diets fail. It's not the lack of information. It's the lack of focusing on the root cause of the problem. And so that's why we need to talk about this because I've seen, look, I'll tell you what, I've seen more than my share of people in our space, the fitness fanatics, who have such a dysfunctional relationship to eating through tracking. No, it's got to fit in my macros. It's so neurotic. It's very neurotic.

And that's, and I think that as coaches, we've learned too that if we simplify the process and really just present a more effective strategy. So there's strategies that will move the needle, but won't be quite as invasive in terms of them having to have this extensive education of, you know, how, how many pounds or, you pounds or ounces or whatever in their meat and calculating out all their grams and macronutrients and calories. If we can establish some understanding there, but really, it's like, what are a better strategy? It's moving more towards whole foods and eliminating some of these behaviors.

Yeah, behaviors. Yeah, no, when they do, when studies will show that a therapist will get somebody long-term success more often and better than somebody that follows a tracking type diet. Now, in the short-term, a tracking diet is very effective because you just follow the rules and you calories versus calories out

and you lose weight. Long term, it's obviously fails. Why is a therapist works so well? Because in therapy, they kind of focus on the root and then the side effect of which is you treat yourself a little bit better, right? Because what you don't, here's a good example, okay? A terrible approach to getting better posture

is to constantly have to think about your posture. Like, oh, just think about your posture all day long. Think about how good it needs to be. Like, what a stressful kind of way to live, right? You want good posture naturally so you can live your life. Having a long-term healthy approach with nutrition is the same. It needs to feel more relaxed.

It needs to feel less stress. Stress is a strong trigger towards bad relationship, the food, overeating, under-eating restriction and binge that kind of stuff. And tracking all the time forever, for most people, is a stressful endeavor. It's just this. How would you handle a client like this?

I get married in August, and I wanna get in the best shape of my life between now and then. So like that's my specific goal that I'm asking you and you got me now today. You're on a timeline. Yes. So what does the conversation change?

Are you still communicating the same thing but then maybe your approach is different? Like what are you saying to that person? Because there are a lot of people. Because I think what you're saying makes total sense for the person who decides, I'm gonna make a change in my life. I've been overweight for a really long time.

I've got all these health markers that are going off my doctorate and I wanna be around for my kids, whatever, the reason is, right? They're motivated to make a change in their life and they wanna get professional help from someone like one of you and they sit at you.

That makes all sense to me, this conversation, the way you're presenting it. Then you have the other part is, or people that come in and say, hey, I've got this specific goal. I've got a wedding in X amount of months. I want to be in the best shape. I can get in at a time. What do you say to that person? If it's possible, then to maintain integrity, I'm always very honest. Okay, well,

you want to lose 15 pounds in two and a half months. We can definitely do that. You're not working out now. Your nutrition, you don't really know how to eat in order to get to your particular goals. So here's a deal. We can do it, but it's not a long-term approach. It's not the healthiest approach. So throughout the process, that's how I'm going to educate the person. Here's what we're going to do. We are going to track.

You are going to follow those things. But here's why it's going to fail if we don't work on these behaviors, if we don't look at the root cause. And I'll let them know the entire time that this is going to be a failing long-term strategy. Because look, let me ask you guys, how often out of 100 people, how many people would succeed long term with that kind of a goal? They all fail.

So that's always looking for from you, with something like along those lines, because I was hoping you were going to say, oh, you would not allow them to track. If you have a time frame, specific that you have to try and get them, tracking is gonna get there, right? I mean, tracking is, you have to be more specific. Right, like if there is a time frame that I have to be in this shape,

whether it be the best shape in my life or a certain amount of weight by a certain amount of time, that then for sure I'm gonna have you track. But what, how I would communicate it is that, okay, that's fine, that's a goal, great, we're gonna do this, can I add to that goal? What I wanna add to that, okay, that's fine, that's a goal, great, we're gonna do this. Can I add to that goal? What I wanna add to that goal is, okay,

after I get you in the best shape of your life for the wedding, I assume that you wanna be able to maintain that for the rest of your life, then allow me to make another goal on top of that, is our goal then is to get you away from having to track food and still be able to maintain your weight or your physique the way that you would like or your health, whatever, however you wanna present it.

But I wanna add to that goal. It's okay, we're gonna be super rigid, we're gonna track, we're gonna get the most results we can this time, but that's not the end of this process. I'd like to get to a place where we can not track for a while. I'll monitor you, I'll see what's going on and stuff like that and be checking in with you every week or two weeks. But the ultimate goal is, can I get you

in the best shape of your life and then also give you practices that will allow you to maintain that? And coach you through that process. Yeah, that's a coaching process, right? I think the ideal situation is to live a life, and again, I'm not talking to fitness, maniacs and fanatics, that's one percent

of everybody I'm talking to. So for most people, I think ideally what you want, is you wanna kind of live for most of your life in this general range of health, right? So relatively lean, decent mobility, you know, decent strength and stamina and you feel good for the most part. And that's how you live most of your life. And then from there, that's your base, right?

From there, then you, oh, I want to get shredded. Okay, now I'll track and turn up the intensity and the volume. Or, oh, I'm going to compete in a powerlifting competition. Now we do all the stuff to take us to the extreme level. But it's nice when the base is general health and relative leanness. Leanness, what you don't want is what happens to a lot of people where, oh, I want to get shredded,

and then there's no base, you know, it goes way that, like you see people post one extreme to the other. Yeah, post bikini show. You know, we're talking about tiny girls, 110 pound girls, getting 30 pounds in 30 days after the competition. That's what you don't want to do those crazy swings and we can get into all kinds of conversations

so why that's terrible for your body. But what we're looking at is always have that long term. How is this going to work for me long term because statistically speaking, you know, how many times I've said this, we don't have a weight loss problem. We have a keep weight off problem. And the weight loss issue is easily solved. Okay. You're losing weight, piece of cake.

Keeping it off, that's the thing we got to talk about. That's for flexibility. The life just presents you with so many different challenges. And you need to be able to not have a decision one day that's really going to affect you substantially. So to be able to pull yourself into that sort of home base where you're relatively healthy, you're relatively strong, relatively lean, you just have a lot more options in terms of which way

you can go and navigate through. Totally. So since we're talking about tracking, I wanna bring up something that Andrew brought to my attention yesterday. So I was working out yesterday and he came over and he was editing some of our clips from... Do you have a good workout. It was all right. Yeah, it wasn't a great you respond quick Yeah, because I switch everything all at once, you know Katrina says the same thing too

She goes I hate I'd frustrate to me watching you train But bro you have a crazy amount of muscle memory. Let's be honest. Well, that's right. I tried to explain to where I said You know, I've been doing this for a really long time and I've I know how to tweak everything. That's beside the point You're getting me off Thank you. I just noticed your arms. Um, I didn't train those I guess so that those have what yeah, those have been trained a couple months so anyways Andrew comes up and he says How come you guys recommended a thousand calorie surplus

to the kid on the question the other day? He's 150 pounds. He said that he's been training for a while and he's been kind of stuck in this plateau and he would consider himself an acto morph and we suggested that and he goes, because I typically hear you guys say somewhere between 250 to 500 and then I'll send you say

a thousand for that guy. So I explained to him why you did it. because I typically hear you guys say somewhere between 250 to 500 and then I'll send you say 1000 for that guy. So I explained to him why you did it. I wanna hear you explain because I'm assuming that what I said to him was run a while. So when we give advice on the podcast with general audience, you're gonna get general advice.

When we're talking specifically to someone, the context changes and the advice can change. So why did I tell this guy that if he wants to do, hit his goal, aim for a thousand calories over his maintenance? Okay, so let's talk about the first second, and let's paint the context a little bit, right? He'd been working out for years already.

So, and his goal was to gain 10 to 15 pounds of lean body mass in a year. So, very, very challenging goal. First off to gain 10 to 15 pounds of lean body mass in a year. So very, very challenging goal. First off, gaining 10 to 15 pounds of lean body mass in your first year of training is a pretty damn naturally, is a pretty damn big goal. Doing it in your sixth year or fifth year, I think you had been working out for four or five years. Wow, was that really hard, right?

Because at that point, your body's pretty resistant. You've already gotten those newbie gains very challenging on top of that admittedly He was in ectomorph saying or in other words a hard gainer So he said yeah, it's really hard for me to put on any weight and there's definitely an individual variance Real hard gainers have a very different challenge than the average person when it comes to gaining weight just like somebody who Gains body fat very easily versus somebody who doesn't gain body fat very easily. Another piece of context is what I said afterwards. So I said aim for a thousand calories over maintenance.

If you start to gain too much body fat, here's the part people leave out, then cut it back. So in other words, aim for a thousand and if the body fat starts coming on too out, then cut it back. So in other words, aim for a thousand, and if the body fat starts coming on too much, then pull it back. Now I was aggressive for a couple of different reasons. He had aggressive goal. He'd already been training for five years. He said he was a hard gainer, and of course there's that if you gain too much body fat,

you can pull back. And also, as a coach or as a trainer, I, depending on who I'm talking to, sometimes I give someone a goal knowing they're not gonna hit it, but they're gonna aim for it. So you hit on exactly what I told Andrew. I said, you know, I know that Sal's experience told him that that type of person who's giving all that information

to him, he knows that the kid probably misses his calorie intake a lot. And if he gives him a thousand calorie goal, he's probably factoring in. There's going to be a lot of times he only hits 500 or 700. Now if I gave him 500, you would, you would go to 200. And then I said, then there's another thing that his experience is telling him and he's factoring.

And also is that as this kid, so his goal is 10 to 15 pounds, well, as this kid adds two to three to four to five more pounds of muscle, his metabolism is also going to speed up too. So this goal of only adding three to five hundred calories above his maintenance, well, as soon as he adds two or three more pounds of muscle, two or three hundred calories is no longer above his maintenance. And so giving him a lofty goal, like a thousand, I said, is most likely going to be a really good place for that particular person. And so I'm glad, I mean, that's exactly what I was telling Andrew. It was like, yeah, no, I, when South said that, I said, I'm pretty sure all of us were

on the same page. Like it was that, that specific person. Yeah, no, it's a great topic because if you ever hear any good trainer or if you listen to Mind Pump and you hear us give advice to a specific person on the show. So obviously, you know, we have episodes where people call in live. And we're talking to a specific individual. If your scenario is very, very similar to the person you're listening to, our advice can apply towards you. If not, just because you have the same goal, don't listen to the advice necessarily. If we give advice on the show generally, now it becomes more powerful. Here you go. This is exactly who I said, Andrew. I said, okay,

let's take the exact same goal. I want to gain 10 to 50 pounds, but let's change the person. This person's a beginner, and he's actually overweight, but he's heard us say that, you know, I should build my metabolism up and increase calories, speed my metabolism up. I would not say I have a fountain of energy.

And he says, I'm an endomorph. I put on size. I was a linebacker in high school or something, or I was a lineman in high school. And so I'm kind of a thicker, a thicker guy as it is, and weight comes on fairly easy for me. But I believe that I should bulk, because you guys said that would be good for me

for my metabolism. What does the advice look like? I said he would go the other extreme. I said, it's out of my way that, just 250 and barely over, and just you getting into weight training, your body's going to respond so think of that.

Exact same goal. It could be the same age, same goal, everything. Same program he's following but the nutritional advice is going to be different based off of that. Yeah speaking personally as in my early 20s, even before especially before as a teenager but up until my early to mid 2020s, my metabolism was so ridiculous that I, you know, eating a few hundred calories over maintenance did nothing.

I would have to really eat a lot of food to see anything on the scale move it all. Now as I get older, it started to balance out a little bit more. And I was not the average person. I mean, most of people around me, you know, if they ate as much as I did, they would gain tons of body fat and tons of weight.

So it really depends on the individual in the context of the question and what we're looking to do. But also, I did say in there, if you start to gain too much body fat, pull back. So, and I think this highlights the value of a really good trainer or coach, because the individual variance, a good trainer will always answer a question

with it depends and need more information from you, because I could give the same information to somebody with the same goal as someone else, maybe terrible for them and work for them, because the context is completely different and the individual is completely different. So this is a very good conversation, it's important for people to understand that.

What's the takeaway? Listen to your body, consider your context, and your context changes all the time. It's such an important conversation. I've actually, we've been critiqued before on this. So I've actually been gone back and forth with somebody in DMs, commenting about, you know, I listened to you guys a year ago and I heard you say this and then you're contradicting yourself

and then you say this. Yeah, that's like, whoa, that's not fair, bro. You can't cherry pick something. I said Never right and we're talking about a specific scenario and then you just because it's related or it sounds similar Yeah, you got to understand that there's there's such an individual variance with with this is the problem too with like trying to Calculate your maintenance or calculate like like these general formulas that are out there. It's a great like base. It's a great like starting point so you can see change. But, you know, it's very so substantially to the individual

that it's like, if we just put a blanket statement, this is always the amount of calories you need to seek, you know, we'd be doing everybody disservice. Yeah, no, 100%. So it's a very important conversation. I'm glad you brought that. I saw the comments too in YouTube. It was 1000 calories over.

I was like, see, that's what triggered Andrew to ask me. If he said that, I didn't see it. He's just like, yeah, you know, people are coming up that. I said, remember, whenever we see those things, you know, because unfortunately, we don't have a chance to look at everything, right? When you guys see stuff like that, you know, I always like to address that because it is.

It's like it's so new. Yeah, how different would your advice be? Let's say you're talking to the person that's got kind of everything altogether. They like to have information, they follow instructions, they're really organized versus the person's like, yeah, none of that works for me. This really stresses me out.

My nutrition advice to the organized, super on top of a person's, is very different. Then to the other person, I might say something like, we're not my nutrition advice to the organized, like, super on top of a person is very different. Yeah. Then to the other person, I might say something like, we're not doing anything to your diet, all I want you to do is add, you know, serving of vegetables to every meal, knowing that that'll, you know, help them eat less and do that kind of thing. And this person over here, I'm going to get much more. You just need to get ninja with that person.

100% the generic thing to say, you know, to cover like all topics or all goals is that we always factor in behavior. And if I know more about somebody, it's not, it's not just science and math. That's a big part of it. You know, there is science involved. There's math involved. But then there's also another component. We're dealing with a human.

That's right. And, and, and a good trainer is saying depends and asking enough questions. Mm-hmm. So I can start to piece together like, okay, I have an, I've seen this before, this type of person typically does X, Y, and Z, so I need to factor that in with my advice. I do my talking to you, the math and science says this, but now I have this other element.

It tells me they're probably gonna be doing this because of their behavior. Yeah, you know what it reminds me of? We had a while ago, we had an NFL trainer in here, so there's person trains, professional athletes. And he was talking about how terrible some of the pre-game diets of some of these athletes are. He was saying, oh yeah, you wouldn't even believe like.

Two athletes are the worst. Well, so he was, no, that's a great conversation. Yeah, I remember. He said, no, I got athletes, man, that right before a game. Taco Bell or something. Taco Bell. He doesn't change it. Fried chicken, they right before a game will talk about or something. Talk about, it doesn't change it. Fried chicken, they'll drink a bunch of soda,

and it's the same garbage food before every game. And so then I said, wow, I wonder how much their performance would improve if you could convince them to have something healthy before and the macros are right and he goes, and he said to me, he goes, no, you're wrong. He goes, these guys are so mentally set on the fact that their Taco Bell meal, if they've had every day

before, every game, since they were in high school, is key to their success. That if I took that out and replace it with healthy food, it would mess with their mental state. It's almost like a superstition, right? Totally. And at that point, it's because I have my, everything, it puts them in a mental space

that like is literally something you can count on. Yes. I had the same process. I put my cleats on the same way. Nobody talked to me. If somebody talked to me, it would ruin my whole experience. I would come after them after the game. I'd say, don't ever talk to me again as I'm preparing.

This is just, you put the eye black, and everything was all very ritualistic, and so I totally get that. Yeah, so it's like, if you're another trainer or coach, and you see this NFL trainer, and you're like, what an idiot. Right, and he's good. That's his athletes he talk about, I know, or again. Yeah, it sounds absurd. But you have no idea.

Right. It's such a good point, because we know what the science in the math says that if we gave him certain foods, he would get this a little bit better, you know, digestion, a little bit better, maybe energy like. But the mental part screwed up. But yeah, just the fact that they could throw him off his mental game and he doesn't like those things and he really enjoys this. He's getting ready to go do something that he needs to be performing. Be great at.

It's being flow state. It's important to put him, yes, in that flow state of that mindset. Totally. What's the black stuff on the eyes? Eye black. What is this? It's a reflection of the lights. Take the sun out of your eyes.

I don't understand it. I think so. No, no, no, no, it's, so both the sun and lights, the way it refracts off of your cheekbone makes a difference in the black. Does it really? Well, especially when you're looking up to like grab, like if you're playing baseball and you're trying

to find that pot fly, you know, things like that or like you can't jump on. Wow. Really, it makes a difference, huh? Yeah, there's a reason behind doing that. I figured, I mean, it's, for me, it was really just like war paint. Yeah.

Well, I just, I got in the mindset like, oh, okay, now I'm gonna go for a little bit more. Well, let's be honest, that's gotta play a role too. Like, I could, I could, like, now I'm ready. You know, I got my eye paint on or whatever. It's like smelling salts for powerlifting. Totally. I don't know if it really will contribute

to like scientifically speaking, I think it's, there's mixed studies. They also slapped the hell out of each other too to just get into that. Like, did you see the high school basketball one that I just posted? No. You guys can see that, I just posted my story yesterday, is the high school basketball one that I just posted? No. You guys didn't see that? I just posted my story yesterday as a high school

basketball kid and they all, you know, when they, you know, in a basketball, they, you know, all the players that aren't starting lineup and then they call the starting lineup. The guy comes through kind of runs through the little thing and they all high-five each other and the kid at the end, he's, they do their, and then the last part of it, he fucking slaps me across the face. You just don't see the views expecting it. Oh yeah, no, you then the last part of it, he fucking slaps you across the face. You just don't see what your views expect again. Oh yeah, no, you can tell it's part of their ritual. You can tell that's their thing, they do their thing, and then he just fucking slaps him across the face.

I never see you do that before. Wow, that's hilarious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of fun. You guys ever play any mental games with yourselves when you're working out to get an extra rap or whatever you guys ever do that? Oh, I just, I get extra angry. Yeah, that's my go to. When I was younger, I don't do this anymore

because I'll hurt myself, but I was younger if I was deadlifting and pulling something that was how heavy, I pictured that I had to lift like something off like someone I loved. Like, it's my dad's pinned under the car. And now if I did, it's not for me. Yes, now if I did that now, I don't think my body could handle it.

I probably heard something. Hilarious. You want to hear something, Hilarious? Even funnier? Okay, so I'm gonna read something to you. I don't think my body could handle it. I probably saw it. hilarious. You want to hear something, hilarious, even funnier? Okay, so I'm going to read something to you. It sounds like a freaking movie. I can't even believe this crap actually even happens. Okay, ready for this?

This is the title, this I'm going to read the title of the article. Okay. Driver who stopped to help when truck carrying 100 lab monkeys, crashed in Pennsylvania, and put her hand in one of the cages, says she now has a cough and pink eye. The CDC urges anyone in contact with the macaques to seek medical attention. So, let's back up for a second.

Wait a second, there's 100 macaques. One of them gave this late pink eye. Yeah, dude. What kind of disease are we can come up with your... Shut up. What a title that is right there. Lab monkeys escaped and then she touched one got sick of the CDC's like, oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah. You never touch Makak. Yeah, yeah. It's just not something we do. Now I read some follow up articles and they were able to get all the escaped lab monkeys. So we're okay. So a plan of the apes isn't going to happen.

That totally sounds like a movie. We are, you know, every day that goes by and we get deeper and deeper this, like, and you made that comment the other day about being in the simulation. Like, it started. Doesn't it feel like that there's a kid playing a game right now? Cool guy. I'm love. How much have you guys been, have you guys been reading or watching it all about,

you know, Elon Musk, NeuroLink and what it's gonna be capable of and what they're like? They've already mentioned it, like being something they're gonna be able to roll out, like, fairly soon. And I'm like, I don't know if they're already doing trials on monkeys and pigs. And they're putting this to end the things that the things that they're gonna be supposedly capable of doing, like blows my mind. Like the idea that you're gonna be able to drive a car, like thinking about going left, going right,

do stuff like that to let people. Read your emails, you know, just by thinking about it, you know, and be able to do things like that to recall memories. So you have to get surgery to get it in? Yes, it's implanted into the brain. So is it almost like, like back here, right back here,

I think is where I've seen the implant. It looks like it's got like this three prong thing, and these are the different functions that it's put in. So I just picture you guys seeing short circuit, right? Yeah, okay, so Johnny Five, he just takes a book, like an almond act and just like, the reason for the whole thing. But I mean, wouldn't you think that you could,

at that point, if you can recall memories or recall like sight of what you, you know, you went through almost like black mirror, you'd be able to retain all of that just by like looking at it looking at it. There's a okay There's a very first of all there are strange disorders where people do have memories like that where they don't forget anything And the fuck you talking about you're one of those guys. No, no, no, no I don't know I don't know this is the straightness study right I found this stuff. What are you talking about you?

We all read sometimes the exact same study. I totally just like fitness studies. I don't know how you do it. And then we get on the podcast and you somehow have the ability to regurgitate like the exact, but that's different, that's different. That's different.

Yes, it's played to be different. There are people, so there's people that, they have these strange memories where they could literally tell you every single license plate they've ever seen. All right, or details of like, detail or that person over in this corner was wearing a red hat and these sneakers.

Or the one that isn't like, sometimes they'll go get hypnotized to be able to then, you know, kind of walk through that whole experience. Yeah, that's different, but I'm talking, there's really, I don't know what it's called, but there are people who have this strange ability where they could tell you the name of every person

they've ever met in their entire life. Now here's the catch. They typically have some kind of psychological dysfunction. They're weirdest, there's a reason why you're brain hitting the head too, like some traumatic experience. It is very important that your brain forget stuff. So this is an important thing.

So this is actually one of the things that they're concerned about with this is that we don't know what that could potentially cause. Exactly. We think it's gonna be this great, right? Theoretically, like, wow, how cool would that be to be able to recall a memory when you were eight, like vividly,

because few people's heads explode. But what we don't know is the unintended consequences of that, like maybe there was a reason why our brain lets that stuff go and maybe it would be very traumatic if we can hang on or we have access to all these memories. So vividly. Yes, I'll give you an example, right? Challenge and struggle is intricately tied

to meaning and purpose in life. This is a fact. We know this. Yet we're constantly trying to eliminate all struggle and conflict and challenge in our lives. And we're seeing this now with exploding, anxiety, and depression. And I don't even have to argue this. We're way better off today than we were, you know, 500 years ago, right? Why do we keep seeing these explosions?

Why are people seeking out challenges, trying to fix things or whatever? So we just don't know a lot of stuff, and I can't imagine what that might do. There's so much of this that's like really just the unknown in terms of like also like eliminating your instinctual behaviors. Like if you start relying on some kind of artificial, like computer to analyze everything for you.

It's like almost like you can be independent on something. So you have two, the thinking fast, thinking slow part of your brain, right? That you access. So I would think that this would be on the logical side, the long process thinking where you would have to stop, really think about something, oh, where I've read this or I know this,

let me think about it. But you'll still have your animal instinct first brain that will always fire. Like that will, you'll always have your initial animalistic reaction to things and behaviors. I don't think that will hijack that. Blizzard brain, probably. I think that when you go to the other part

and you go, you think logically, let me process this, now you'll have, that's my theory on that towel. It'll work. So I don't know if it'll eliminate- I don't think anybody else. Natural instincts, huh? I don't know. Yeah, no, I mean, we're all speculating right now.

I mean, how about, how about it works amazing and it's perfect, but you know, you get, and you get started getting hundreds, thousands of people that have these neural links and then the business goes under. Yeah. All right. I'm just always worried about getting hijacked.

You know, no one's asking you that question. A shitty set, right? And how you on must dies? Or you on must as fuck this, I'm so tired of all this scrutiny. Fuck everybody, I'm selling the company, I'm out. You need to rush out the child, you're on accident. You need to get your brain.

Or how successful or ads gonna be, you know, we're like talking over, oh damn, I want to die at Coke so bad right now. Yeah, that's weird. You never drink them I know but I want so bad who knows and who's signing up for this elective brain surgery That's what I want crazy people that will do well didn't he say that? What were some of the conditions that they think that they're gonna be able to eliminate? Yeah, people yeah people that like paralyzed Issues, yeah memory stuff like somebody who has short-term

or some things like that that he said that he'd be able to eliminate in a few years. Yeah, you know what's funny to me? It's like the same, because Elon Musk is such a polarizing, you know, kind of interesting individual, right? So the same people that are like, damn Facebook and Google is spying on me. I hate them, you know, and then Elon Musk, I'll put a computer trip right in your brain. I'll sign it for that. Wait, no, wait, what's happening? I think the people that would be open to that

are the same people that don't give a fuck about the Facebook. I think there's the people that are worried about Facebook are worried about all this invasive stuff. You know what Elon has said is he said, this is all gonna happen anyway. I'm just trying to do it before anybody else because I know I'm not gonna create some weird. He's like it's already an appendage of yours anyway,

your phone. You know the mind is like, that's what got me. My eyes will put in your brain. That's what got me. That's a big stick. I don't know. He is, but I didn't.

Like so when he said that on Joe Rogan, that was kind of like one of those moments for me where I'm like, God, you're right. Like how many, and let's be honest, okay? Everybody being honest in this room, how may think for a moment, the feeling of stress or anxiety when you started to take off from your house

and realize you left your phone? Yeah, of course. And do you not 100% of the time turn the car back around and go get your phone? As if you can't go a day without your phone being at home. I don't even know my wife's phone number. That's a sweating deal. So it took me a good hour so to realize I'm gonna be okay.

Like so you're lying to yourself if you do not think it's already in a pindage. I mean it is already become that, like and some obviously more dependent than others, but so that was kind of the moment for me. I was like, well, fuck, he's kind of right. Like so all I'm really doing is speeding up the process.

This is a lot of weird unknowns. Like, did you know that? Yes, yes, I agree. I don't disagree. You know that you put from that from that logic, think about that. All I'm really saying is that like, okay, I could implant something that allows to take out the holding something and actually typing it in to get to the what I want. Now I just gotta think it.

I mean, is it really, if it is safe, if there are no unintended consequences that happen, which I agree with you, that we don't know. And also that. We're also turning to cyborgs. I mean, is it really that different from that? It's just weird, dude. There's this, there was one electronic brain implant

that I did, I believe they did experiment with where you could push a button and orgasm. Think about it. Antidepressants out the window, oh, you feel sad, hit the button, you'll feel happy no matter what. So now people are going to be like, at home, isolated by themselves, they hit the button. Oh, I feel good. I mean, is that how much different is that from the opioid crisis that we have right now?

Because theoretically, if it directly goes to the brain, there's no, like drugs have their side effects and they, you know, you gotta take more. I mean, who knows, right? And that's the, okay, here's a good one, a good question. Are there no unintended consequences? Okay, opiates, they have opiates, we know physical, physiological, unintended consequence,

but let's just imagine opiates always made you feel happy when you took a pill, and there were none of those. Does that still mean there are no side effects? I don't think so. I think easily feeling happy all the time has its own side effects because you don't have all of the processes there.

Well, you have more also depending on something else to do it versus. You think that's the only means to get there. Right. You're depending on some other function versus intrinsically being able to do it, which there's obviously tremendous value in you being able to create that for yourself versus oh, I depend on this pill or oh, I depend on this, you know, electronic surge. I wonder if there's going to be an explosion in Amish people when all this happens. You know what I mean?

We were right, look at all you weirdos over there. We're over here with the horses and buggies on the rest of the cyborg zombies. Yeah, that's a big, big thing. We're like, do you know what I'm saying? I'll tell you what, if I had neural link and I could just then plant them in all these high school kids' brains

and just tell them exactly what to do, you know, just like this would be way easier. You'd win every game. You'd be like playing that huge, they'd be jacked, like they'd do anything right. You'd win every game. Yeah, you'd be like playing that. It'd be huge. They'd be jacked. Like, they'd do everything right. You'd hook them up to an app like you're playing Madden and they're just playing like that.

Oh, you go over here. Of all the things that you're trying. Of all the things that you're trying to coach them or train them to do, like consistently. Some of that, what do you find is the biggest hurdle or what do you find yourself repeating the most? Well, a lot of it is an intent. So I think, you know, just with younger groups in general,

it's just about getting through it. And it's about performing whatever it's put, because right now I'm in the thick of the exercise portion of it and then the workouts and then also the nutrition. And I'm actually, I guess, I scratch that. It's probably nutrition is probably the hardest. Just because I think that it's just hard

to kind of break through if they're not seeking it out. For me to just like, you know, in and date them with like good strategies and all these things to do, I'm like, I don't really know what you guys are doing. Like until you show me and write down like what you're eating, what your family prepares you, they're just like, they're just almost like there.

Okay, it was for dinner. And they're just mindless about like, they're eating. You know what's fun? Okay, so when I was a kid, I was, I think I was 15 and my parents went to Italy for a full month. And within that month, I stayed at my grandma's house and my grandma, old school Sicilian,

and she's the kind of person where if she'll say, what do you wanna eat and if I tell her, she'll just make it. It didn't be anything, I can tell her whatever, she'll make it. And then if I like it, she'll make it all the time. So at 15, I was already lifting weights, trying to work out, and I'm already taking supplements to a whole thing.

And I told her, I said, no, not, I like steak. Can you make me steak? So I had steak, breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, she threw a pasta on it. In a month, I'm a gains, right? Dude, in a month I gained like eight pounds and I got so strong and I pieced together,

like I gotta eat more meat. I mean, like this is like one of the big pieces. No, that did not come to me until way later. I wish I would have pieced that part together. Like, I was just giving advice to someone like that. My sister actually were talking about this, who's starting her journey right now. I'm like, just start with hitting your protein intake. You'll see that when I tell you about what you should be eating, you'll go, oh yeah,

yeah, or people always go, oh yeah, I eat a lot of that. And then like, yeah, well watch when you actually track and pay attention. You'll see that you miss that. I have to, when I'm in like competitive mode or change my physique mode, I have to actively seek a like meat or protein in every single moment. It's not easy.

It ticks a lot of prep too. Yeah, and that's, I remember vividly when I was going through it as high school kid, like, you know, my parents always be like, oh my God, you eat so much meat. Like it was just something I was always asking them if I could get, you know, and I just like, oh my God, you eat so much meat. It was just something I was always asking them if I could get, you know, and I'd just like, chicken brass stuff or chicken brass, you know,

steak as much as I could get it. But it was just like, oh my God, you're racking our bills up, you know? Cause it's just, too, it's expensive like, in terms of like if you're just always seeking out steaks and you know, quality meats. But yeah, so that was one of the things. I actually created this manual for the kids,

which I'm gonna hand them off with like, you know, options and just things and strategies for seeking out protein. Put your books all day long. All day long for the students. I put that on there, because it was like, it's so helpful to know that you have like a freezer full of meat.

You can prepare that on a Sunday, you can cook all these things, and then you have that to go to, so you're not at a lost during the day. How am I gonna get this protein? Because you're already behind the ape all of them. Yeah, well also, here's another advantage. Typically with these kids,

it's mom or dad that does the grocery shopping. If they sign up for butcher box, they do it with their mom or dad, it's mom or dad that does the grocery shopping. If they sign up for butcher box, they do it with their mom or dad, it's on a schedule. Once a month, there's a box of good quality grass fed meat that comes to the door and they know this is what I'm eating. This is how I'm gonna get my grams of protein and then they can go and prepare it and prep it and they're all set.

When I was a kid, before I understood that, I thought a Bologna and Cheese sandwich was protein. Oh, it was Bologna and Cheese sandwich. Oh, I know, because you get a little bologna. I remember as a kid, so before I was like, really into track food, I would count my Togo sandwich every day as like a high protein meal. Yeah, because there's meat in there.

Yeah, well, and I was getting a huge large one. My friend, chicken streaks. And you know a lot of people have to think the same way too. Big old meat sandwich. And what you don't realize is those things have like four ounces of meat. Yeah. Like seriously, it's like 20 grams of protein in this massive sandwich. Yeah, and then you consume 1200 calories of carbohydrates and fats.

Like I was so off on all that stuff. I after I figured that out, I began looking at meals like, oh my god, I need to get this much meat in this meal. Now that I think about it, butcher box is perfect for these kids because when they get it, it's weighed so they know this is a one and a half pound tri-tip. Okay, Johnny, this is your tri-tip, you cook it or your mom cooks your dad whatever, get it ready, you know it's a pound and a half, this is what you're going to eat over the next three days. So now you've got it all portioned out for you and it's all set it's grass fed so it's you know better fatty acid profile

Yeah, I need you guys paying attention if any of our brand of our partners like this are they being affected by inflation right? I know because almost everybody is raising prices No, you know, this is great. So that's great So yes, because we work with a few subscription companies like public goods right so for people that know public goods They have like home goods cleaning right? So for people who don't know, public goods, they have like home goods, cleaning supplies, dog food, canned foods, toothpaste, that kind of stuff. Stuff you would use in your house. And their big claim to fame is no harsh chemicals,

and it's very earth friendly. So the packaging is good. They don't create a lot of waste. They have a very small, if any, carbon footprint, I believe they're carbon neutral, if I'm not mistaken. They have that reusable model where you buy your first thing with that, and you just get the refill of everything. But here's what I think the brilliance

isn't subscription models period, including butcher box and companies like public goods, is that because they don't have as many middlemen, inflation, when you have inflation happen, it affects the first source, then the, then the, then the, what affects everybody, and if you have six steps in between you and the,

the customer, every putty putting in half a percent more on there, all that adds up, adds up. Yes, because the middle man makes money, this person makes money. And that's just how it works. When you have a subscription service, you are taking out a lot of that. So although inflation probably affects everything, you're less likely to have an issue. And when subscription services raise their price, they really have to consider the consequences

because it's a subscription. It's not like a one-time purchase. They know we're raising these persons box by 20 bucks or whatever. Let's really figure out how to do this. So I think subscription services in this inflationary market, I think they're like an incredible hedge against inflation. Direct to consumer. Yeah, when it's direct to consumer. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes increases your risk of cancer. So I know that there's a myth out there

that, and we'll cover this, right? I've heard like so many people try to say like a shot of gin extends their life. This is like a whole thing. Okay, so can alcohol or other substances similar to alcohol increase your longevity? Yes, but not because it's good for your physical or physiological body. If it's bonding

with other person, there's those benefits as well. So let's cut those out for a second. Let's just talk about purely about the physical and physiological effects. No. In that context, alcohol always increases your risk of dying early. There is no... Even all the stuff that's around wine and antioxidants. That's so bullshit. I know it is. I know know if you're truly chasing antioxidants go have a fucking handful of berries Yeah, twice as much as you do get from your wife So I know it's a bullshit thing, but you're glass of grape juice, right? Like I mean, I know I know that but it is true. You're getting antioxidants and you can't try and tie that to some benefits Right. Yeah, you know what they do is they'll have a study that says, like compound found in

chocolate shown to increase, you know, fatty acid mobilization, where compound found in red wine, you know, increase the longevity of fiber concentrated in like in pill forms. It's not in the nice, you know, like, like edible form. And for the one positive thing, it doesn't cancel the nine negative things. No, and it's also the compound, and it's also look at the study and no, it doesn't like chocolate, okay. For the most part, chocolate's not great. I mean, I guess you can fit it into your diet, but all this stuff is hilarious.

It's all click-baiting. So, is this like, I mean, what kind of cancers does this promote? Oh, just all. Yeah, there's increased to your risk of all cancers. Inepigenetic, it unlocks the potential for just the stress. So listen guys, I like it. Is it something that is actually in the alcohol or is it

that because you always want to be careful, it's a causation, not a correlation thing. Is it or is it that people who drink alcohol tend to over consume on calories, therefore, in the context of overeating calories and drinking alcohol, pretty much feeds and leads all the cancer, because then that would make sense. They control for all that. It's the alcohol, yeah, it's the alcohol itself. Even without the high calorie. But if you moderately, if you don't drink a lot, it's a very moderate increase in risk. But it's not a decrease in risk, like some people say,

and it's definitely not a flat, right? So there's always an increase. I know, like in ancient times, okay, it saved a lot more lives, because water was actually the problem. Did you know that? Yeah. Did you know that?

So, we're fermented beer and wine was very safe. Yeah. So back in the, like, we were talking like hundreds or thousands of years ago, it was safer to drink beer because you're less likely to get an illness from dirty water. Hair sites or anything else. Yeah, our bacteria.

So it's like, here you want some water, like hell, now we'll have the beer that I know is clean and get a little drunk in the process. When did we figure out beer? You know, when that came, when we, when it out, like how far back does alcohol come up?

It's thousands and thousands of years, too. Firmmented, like fruit and stuff. And was it wine first or did beer come before wine? Do we know any of this? Ooh, what's older beer wine? I mean, you've been drinking wine. Wine's in the Bible, right? So was it beer in the Bible?

Wouldn't that be, God, imagine how weird that would be. Like if Jesus threw like, Egyptians made it kind of a project, Daniels. Well, there's also a need to with honey, which was popular amongst the monks. Do you know they make alcohol in prison? Do you have you heard about this? Yeah, it's called um what's it called? There's a name for it. Doug. I know you've never been there. It's called it. Hold it. Hold on. This is crazy. Look at this chemical analysis recently confirmed that the earliest alcoholic beverages in the world was a mixed fermented drink of rice honey and Hawthorn fruit and or grape. Oh, the residues of the beverage dated

7,000 to 6600 BCE. Wow. Wow. From where's this? This is a neolithic village in the yellow really river valley? I have no idea where it is. Yeah, where's that? Yeah, the yellow rivers in China. China. Okay. What's what's they did a lot of shit? What is the E on BCE? I know BCs before Christ, but what's E? I have no idea before Christ existed existed. I don't know good one I've just never it's always been AD or BC. I've never seen BCE with that. With more Christ earth. Is that is that is BC before BC?

Before BC? Yeah. How far back are we going? Okay, BCE stands for before the common or current era. That's interesting. I always thought BC was, oh, is this gonna be like a political problem? God, bro.

It sounds like it. Oh my God. Is that really what this is? They changed BC. Okay, yes, exactly. So simply put, BCE before common era is a secular version of BC before Christ. Do we have to be so? No, I know. We're gonna change everything.

Did you guys know that? I didn't even know that. I'm like, BCE, what is BCE? Listen, guys, happy holidays, okay? I don't want to talk much much much better and to go back to your other question on the prison lines called pruno Yes alcohol liquid made from apples oranges fruit cocktail like a dirty sock bread

They fermented in a toilet in a toilet row in a plastic bag Seriously dirty they do like a dirty sock And they smash between the mattress and stuff, really. Oh, is it the mattress? Yeah, yeah. What? Yes. And then a keyster it.

Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I think we're taking a shower. I'm just saying, they don't want to take a drink. They're taking a shower. Speaking of, you gotta get crafty in there. Keyster wine. Do you know what a fee fee is?

Have you heard of that in prison? No. No. You don't know that? What is that? So this is, I had a trade that worked for me. I feel like I know this, I don? So this is I had a train that worked for me. I feel like I know this. I don't know why I had a train that worked for me that he was he came at it. He was a heck you know got out of prison whatever I hired him. Great guy loved him to

death and you know he really want to turn his life around and I would ask him about like what was it like dude to be in prison and he would tell me about like workouts and this and that and then he told me what a Fifi was so a Fifi I think I'm saying right they would get a latex glove and They would cut I guess one of the fingers off and then use like they use like towels Fleshlight flesh light. Yeah, so it's like it they would use it and they would they would bang it They would have sex with the Fifi and he's like oh oh yeah, you could trade this for X amount of cigarettes or whatever in prison. So it's a gloves, it's like a finger of a glove.

They would wrap like towels or something around it and make it real tight and then they'd use some kind of lubricant. I know, and then they have, and I'm not great. I know, I feel like it. I'm telling you, dude, you put a lock up a bunch of people in there, give nothing to do, man. The ingenuity is, I swear to God, dude.

You see the way they communicate and the shit that they make, the tattoo guns that they make out of like, what is it, like a tape recorder and just weird stuff. It is a great example of like, man, if you don't even need that much resources, if you really give the human like just space, the space, just-

No, nothing to do. Yeah, exactly, nothing to do, but think like, how powerful that can be. Well, it's not so Yeah, exactly. Nothing to do, but think, like, how powerful that could be. Well, it's like so hilarious to me, like, that one try love, ancient aliens. They always like, they totally dismiss like human ingenuity and there's like aliens talking about it. Yeah, dude, you're like, you the fuck, I got it.

Bro, if you're, if you lived 10,000 or 20 or 100,000 years ago and you ain't got nothing to do, you're laying back on your back, yeah, you're gonna figure out the constellations of the stars. You know what I mean? back on your back. Yeah, you're going to figure out the constellations of the stars. You know, I mean, you're going to figure that should pick up on some patterns. Yeah, I mean, the guys in prison can make a flashlight out of a glove. Now, they can do that knowing your personalities. If you guys got sent to prison, oh my god, yeah, five to 10 years, let's say. Yeah. Are you the type that goes in and you're, you get super educated and jacked coming out? Or do you like fuck it, this is vacation,

you put your feet up, which one are you doing? Vacation, what are the terrible, what I mean, I'm always on point, like I'm looking around, yeah, I'm tightening, I'm tight but whole. Yeah, no, I would isolate myself and probably come out like educated, probably like a knock out of degree or something.

Something, I would just focus on something to keep myself from going crazy. I probably learn like some kind of like wood carving skill or something. Adam would probably be a gang leader. I'd play probably 100%. I'm the right person. And I'd be playing hearts.

I'd be playing a lot of cards. I'd be playing a lot of cards. Organizing. Organizing all the the the clans. Adam's 10 year since turns into life You know Sun tanning with the gangs you know out in the yard Yeah, they would have nowhere to throw you though

Way due to the Hispanic views Yeah, I run him both that's why Oh, yeah, I'd be the first person to combine that Oh my combine our forces That's right We're gonna run this in this 13 Yeah, we're the ultimate ultimate game That's not some, that's not get you there.

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All right, here's the rest of the show. Our first color is Joe from New Jersey. What's up, Joe? How can we help you? Hey, what's up? What's up? is Joe from New Jersey. What's up, Joe? How can we help you? Hey, what's up? What's up? Cool, so I was wondering, what are your thoughts on NMN?

Like, do you guys take that? Have you taken it? Is it worth it? OK. What is a sex toy? What is that? What is it? What is that?

It's like BDSM, except it's an acronym for this. It's the bondage part. A sexual move. What is that? Nikitinamide, mono- it's an acronym for the Bondage Bar. A sexual move. What is that? Nikitinamide, mono-nuclear time. Is that how you say it? Yeah, you got it. Help me with, okay, where did you hear about this?

Well, I got another question first. I want to ask you, Joe, how long have you been consistently, like no breaks, been training? And what does your workout look like? Let's start with that first. So I'm 41. I guess I've been like active and training since I was like 20. Good deal. So super consistent, you would say? Yeah, I do everything. I'm not, I'm not, I don't go to the gym, but I, I do run a lot.

I, I lift weights. I do like calisthenics, push ups, pull ups. Awesome. And then nutrition wise, what does that look like? What does your diet look like? How many grams of proteins, carbs, and fats are you waiting? I don't really pay attention to that. I'm actually a student of Ayurveda. So I just eat really well. OK. But O team maybe like maybe 60 grams a day, maybe.

Okay. And what is your, how many hours of sleep do you have every night? Do you have a sleep routine before you go to sleep? No sleep routine, I just passed out at like 10 o'clock, I wake about like 530. Yeah, okay, so I don't think you should waste your money on any of these supplements that, like for example, what you're talking about, I mean, there's some studies that shows, it does this that, I mean, is it gonna move the needle?

No, I'll tell you what it'll move the needle, Joe. Start paying attention to your grounds, proteins, fats, and carbs. I would look at your workout. I would definitely pay attention to sleep, but supplements like this, and by the way, this is coming from a supplement, like I'm a, I will admit,

I'm a, I will admit, you're a young fan boy. I'm a junkie just coming from a supplement. I'm a, I will admit, I'm a, I will admit, you're a young fanboy. I'm a junkie when it comes to supplements. I try everything, I use everything, but when I step outside of myself and my addiction to these things, I mean, it's not gonna do, it's not gonna do anything for you.

Like, you're eating 60 grams of protein a day, I bet if you bumped that a little bit, you probably, I know you would see better results than what you're seeing now, or what you're seeing what you would see from supplementing with NMM. I don't remember the acronym, but Niko Tainamide, Mononucleotide.

Mononucleotide. There you go, they had a written up there. I know that's a precursor to NAD. I've heard all the fuss about it, you know, shows that it... Well, listen, NAD is a company that tried to pay us to advertise for NAD and none of us were impressed with the research around it as far as the real benefits. But here's the thing. That's why I wanted to ask you guys because there's so much information out there and it's all confusing. Yeah, you know, here's the thing with,

I mean, for me, the way I kind of look at tees it out, I mean, Sal's right, if you're not tracking sleep, or not tracking your macros, I mean, you're gonna get, you're gonna see more gains in whatever you're pursuing just by simply doing that. There's the other side too, you're 41 years old, you're probably pretty established, if you got a decent income and you can burn

You know a few hundred bucks a month and I had a big deal and so long as all the research is pointing that it's not harmful or Dangerous then fuck it play with it. I don't care. You know that's kind of how I would I would treat it But I the when we address supplements on here There's always so many other things that that somebody who's looking for the competitive edge or wants more from their workouts. There's so many other things that we can do that doesn't require you spending any money that will give you way more return than anything that's on the market,

minus illegal drugs, right? So obviously. Well, even drugs, you put someone in an anabolic steroids with a shitty diet, you're a bad training and they're not gonna do as well as someone with good diet, good training who's natural. And that's anabolic steroids. And here's someone with good diet, good training who's natural. That's animal steroids.

And here's the other thing too to pay attention with studies. Look, you practice aerobatic medicine. I'm probably preaching to the choir right now, but on a physiological level, we could say, wow, increases antioxidant activity and mitochondrial function. Okay, but what does that mean? Because there's so complex, there's so many downstream and upstream things that get affected when you change something.

So I can say to some, I can look at a test and say, wow, protein synthesis went up, right? But what does that necessarily mean? It couldn't mean we're building more muscle. We don't know yet. It could mean a lot of different things, it could mean more inflammation, depending on the context of the individual. So, in NAD, and it's precursors, there's studies, but it's not, look, I'll tell you what,

if you want to improve mitochondrial function, which is one of the main selling points, supplement with Crateean. Crateean is thousands and thousands of studies have been done on it over the over the past few decades It's very well studied some of these other compounds not so much and many of the studies that they have are done on animals and very few are done on humans Not saying it's dangerous. It's probably not but it's it's kind of a waste of time unless you're admittedly like me where you just like This is fun. I like to mess with things in which case it's a good for it and kind of see what happens But if I'm coaching you, if I'm training you, if you're perfect in everything,

that's what I'll say, all right, let's have some fun. If you're not perfect in everything, I was like, oh, let's focus on this other stuff first, because you're gonna get way more out of changing these things than just, you know, been taking this. I'm out just because it's like, I have to say, I'm having fun with Nads. I'm done.

Yeah. Just in taking Nads all the time. Yeah. So yeah, so there's Nads out my mouth. That's pretty much it. Now, I want to give you something because I know we kind of hammered you a little bit. It sounds like your fitness goals are overall fitness

and performance, is that correct? Yeah. Okay. I was just curious about it. Yeah, I actually started taking creatine because you guys, so that's the one supplement I think that'll make definitely will kick the crap out of And

And I'm in terms of you know mitochondrial function and performance Do you have maps performance because I think that would be a good program for someone like you? No, but I'll check it out. We'll give it to you. We'll send that to you Joe Oh sweet no problem. Yeah. All right, man. Thanks for calling in. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, dude. The supplement industry's really done a number on I knew I knew right where you're going. You know, right? Yeah, right where you start asking them. It's a sunlight. It's so true. And I know we I know I could have gone down a list of like 15,000 and I know some people that like drop in that haven't listened to the the all of the podcast

and so like that would be like, well, you guys are sponsored by supplements and you talk about supplements, it's like, yeah, but in the context of if you're doing this, then okay here, or if you're missing these things, then this makes sense. Like not like you should take this to build muscle, or this is the best thing for burning body fat, or this is, you know, it's like, there's so many other boxes that you can check first before you go try some new supplement that's on the market right now that everybody is touting as the next best thing for whatever, you

know. Everybody thinks they're eating well till they start tracking it. Yeah, that's it. That's a big factor that I've always found with people that are really interested in supplements. It's always like looking for that like last bit of edge and they haven't really, you know, done the work part of, you know, looking for the shortcut. Yeah, looking for the shortcut. They're looking for the shortcut. Yeah.

They're looking for the shortcut. They're looking for something that is going to give that type of return that you're talking about, but they don't want to do that work. And it's like, listen, if you really want to see some benefits, man, let me tell you, you know, track, track your food and dial in your sleep routine. And there's nothing on the market that I could give you. You can move you much further. There ain't nothing.

And again, the, the, the, the, the,. And again, the functions of human body are so complex. We know some of it. We know the tip of the iceberg. We don't know majority of how things interact with you. Because there's so many things that have influenced by other things that we could change one thing and measure that and say it's good and not realize. This is why so many pharmaceutical drugs get pulled off the market

because it does it's targeted thing and we find out later, oh shit, it increases risk of stroke or looks like this might make Alzheimer's more prevalent. So we have to pay, look, I'll give you an example, right? M-Tore. We measure M-Tore and when M-Tore goes up, you build more muscle. If M-Tore goes up in a pro-cancer environment, you get a higher risk of cancer. In a healthy environment, you just build more muscle. Does that mean M-tours causes cancer? No. Does that mean M-tours always good to have up?

No. It depends on the context. It's very, very complicated. That's why when we look at studies and we're like, oh, this supplement increases antioxidant capacity or activity. This one does, it reduces markers of stress. Well, that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, ibuprofen reduces markers of inflammation, very effectively.

Take ibuprofen all the time, you'll notice your joints will start to break down and you start to get problems because you need those markers, right? So it's very complicated and a lot of these supplements sell their products based off these studies that are very narrow and they're almost all very narrow. We wanna look at the whole picture and have some length of time with people using. That's why he's creating, creating decades and it's been studied so many times,

thousands of studies peer reviewed that we're pretty sure we know what it does. Well, especially a supplement like this, this would fall, I'm assuming this, I don't know anything really about it, but I'm assuming that it falls under the performance category. People are like the biohacking right now, that whole community uses stuff like this. Right, but I mean, it's more based off of enhancing performance.

It's not a supplement because most people are not getting whatever it is in their body and they need this. It's sold as slows down the aging process, Reduces the negative effects of aging. May increase your overall health and longevity. May improve endurance. There was one study that showed an improvement in endurance with some athletes. But that's how they're selling it, right? So, and I've messed with everything.

And I've taken this. We all did, for a while. I don't notice anything. And that's happened a lot to me. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, by the way. That's just me. But man, you got to look, you're trying to make your car go faster, like stop putting stickers on it and spoiler.

Like it's engine. Let's focus on that first. And then let's move down the line of the most important things. Like your four cylinder gas efficient car, and you're trying to slap a spoiler on it to make it have better performance. You're wasting your money in your time. Well, that's why I was asking that. Because the next step, after you know, gas efficient car, and you're trying to slap a spoiler on it to make it have better performance. You're wasting your money in your time. Well, that's why I was asking that because the next step, after you track, after you do think big rocks,

like sleep and stuff like that, the next thing would be to actually find out if you're deficient in anything, right? If there's something that your body needs and you're missing, whether it be vitamin D, zinc, or iron, something that you're not getting enough of, magnesium, and that can make a big difference in your sleep health performance. Like, to me, you're better off looking one, two, it's a lot cheaper, by the way, too. Most of those supplements are relatively cheap to supplement with. And you're giving your body something that you've tested for that. Oh, wow, I'm under, I don't have enough vitamin D. That is so important for so many different functions. Okay.

Well, instead of me going out and getting some experimental supplement or new thing that biohackers are talking about, I was like, I'm gonna go take, I'm gonna discipline myself to take my vitamin D every single day since that will make a greater impact. Yeah, and look, I'm gonna read, Doug just pulled up a study, so I'm gonna give you an example, right? So NMN supplementation promotes anti-aging MIRNA

expression profile in the aorta of aged mice. Okay. What does that mean? What does that mean? That means that just means that that means that there's this anti-aging profile that we think is anti-aging. And it looks like it promotes that. And then here's the rest of the study predicting epigenetic rejuvenation and anti-athorogenic effects predicting this is. This is so like a lot of probably words. Yeah, and we don't know, like we don't know if you, if you change the profile, that profile through supplementation is that the same thing as looking at it?

Yeah, is that the same thing as looking at a young aorta? There's like three leaps. There's like three leaps in the huge leaps. There's 15 words and there's three leaps in there. Yeah. None of it is human-related. Our next caller is Colby from North Carolina. What's up, Colby?

How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? First off, thanks so much for what you guys do. I really appreciate all the context you guys bring to this instead of pedaling on one side of Spitzelhock, kind of thing. So I appreciate that. I guess a little backstory first, I'm 39, kind of just trying to be a healthy, strong guy. But like many people who call in, that journey started some time ago with CrossFit for me.

I really enjoyed it. It gave me an entry to strength training. But I would never benefit from consistency because I would hurt myself, be out for two, three, four weeks, get back into it from other two, hurt myself. So I straight away, I straight away from that and I really like the Olympic weight lifting. So I moved to another gym that did Olympic weight lifting and strength and conditioning. And then that kind of got a little boring for me. So I just chose to lifting and strength and conditioning. And then that kind got a little boring for me. So I just chose to focus on strength and conditioning.

Been pretty consistent with that now. But so my actual question comes from an episode you guys did recently where you said that Chase performance and aesthetics will follow, which I really like that. So I'm curious if there is some ways that you can add some movements or some exercises to a strength focused workout that would accelerate some of the aesthetic gains, because I'm not quite there in the ways that I would hope to be.

Okay. Well, you can combine the two. We have a sexy athlete bundle, I believe, which includes maps, aesthetic and math performance. And so think of it this way. Let's say you have four workouts in the week, Colby, you could make two in two, right? So two performance kind of based, two like aesthetic, maybe bodybuilder focused, or you go three in one, depending on which one's more important to you or mix it up, or you can run one for a while and then look that's the way the second other way to do performance and add the focus sessions in between yeah there's lots of ways you could kind of skin this cat are you Are you familiar with any of our programs you haven't even called me well that was kind of my follow up was I've really been looking at um recently and I've been looking at the one that I think was anabolic to performance to something. There was like a little three pack there,

but so that was kind of my follow up question was, is there a program you guys would push me towards that would be a good strength focus that might help you get bigger arms in the process or something? If you would allow me to be your coach and tell you exactly what I would want you to do, it would be, I'd love to see you run anabolic,

run performance, and then run mass aesthetic because that order in that order because it literally an ideal that it's going to hit everything that you're looking for. And then after you run through all three of those, which by the way is going to take you the next year to get through right each one of them's about three months or so. So once you go through all three of them, then you can

kind of do what Sal was saying where you can kind of pick and pull from some of them like I'm going to run you know two days a week that's going to look like maps performance, the other two days I'm going to pull in maps aesthetic, like, and that we encourage that right after we tell people, like, you know, trust the process and our expertise and building and writing programs, follow it to a T, and then after that, you can start to kind of play with and mold to more to your specific goals. And I think that that order would be ideal. Yeah, the other thing to consider too cold

with aesthetics, especially for men, is getting lean makes a huge difference with aesthetics. You get to what you, I mean, just getting somebody to get down to, you know, 9% percent body fat. And it's like all of a sudden, just these aesthetics really start to pop out. So I don't know how lean you are.

I don't know what your body fat percentage or if you've ever really gotten to that point where you can see that kind of muscle definition. But that makes a tremendous difference when it comes to aesthetics. And sometimes we think we need, we wanna get bigger to improve our aesthetics when in fact we just need to get a little leaner.

Well this honestly sounds like to me and just because I'm susceptible to wanting to just do athletic moves, wanting to just do Olympic lists, wanting to just kind of go in that performance world only exclusively. Once I ventured into hypertrophy training, it was game changer for me. And I don't know if you've actually put an entire focus

on hypertrophy training specifically, but to interrupt that and create a whole new stimulus for your body, it's going to respond and you're going to love it. So since you don't have those programs, we'll send them to you. It's the RGB bundle. So you'll actually get all three. And then follow them in that order, maps in a ball like maps performance and then maps aesthetic.

And you should get a great deal of what you're looking for. Great. Yeah, I appreciate it. No problem. There you go, brother. Great. Yeah, I appreciate it. No problem. There you go, brother. Awesome. Thanks, guys. You're welcome.

You know, Justin is right. Like when he actually started to do that, his, you know, sex appeal on the sexometer went from like a four to like a solid six after he started doing it. I finally got some of your DMs. Yeah. It was a solid six.

Solid six. Unfortunately, it was all dudes. It looked like, hey, at least I started getting DMs. Dude, the. It was a solid, so it's a solid thing. Unfortunately, it was all dudes. It looked like, hey, at least I started getting DMs. Dude, the guy tells you you look good, you look good. That's true. That's probably a better compliment. Yeah, it's a better compliment. I think that most guys are actually

truly seeking that. Oh, yeah, be honest, okay. At this age right now, you're working out the gym. What's more, what it's gonna make you feel more impressed? If a girl walks up, she goes, you have a nice bag where if a dude comes up and like, dude, your back is yeah your arms are looking sick, bro Yeah, I do high five. Yeah, that's like that's worth like 10 girls saying that This being honest here. Yeah, no, this question is common right the whole balancing of

Performance and aesthetics they do work very well together. They really do. I mean you can go extreme or one or the other But you can you can get a great balance with the two because they do communicate well to each other. They're not competing, you know, signals necessarily like you would find with other type of pursuits. Well, we always have to remember, you know, I forget sometimes the amount of people that are probably just finding us today, right? I mean, I don't know exactly what it is, but it's probably thousands every day that are listening to the very first show. And we just assume that they kind of know the way we wrote these and the intent that we wrote them in, right? And this is why we wrote this. Like we wrote the, you know, maps and a ball, like maps performance and maps

aesthetic in that order because it really is for the most part. There's always exceptions to the rule and people with very, very specific narrow goals. But for the general population that just wants to move better, look better, get stronger, like that is the order that I would take all those clients in so they could learn kind of the process of building routines around those specific adaptations. And then from there, we would mold and modify based off of the things they like. They don't like and more specific to their goals. But I mean, when I talk to someone outside of our listener

base, and I'm telling them about the programs, like, look at it like an education process. I mean, we wrote them with that intent. That's why they have so much stuff inside them is like, we weren't just like telling people, go work out, go try this workout routine. It's like, we're trying to educate you on how to build a program for yourself. I can't stop thinking about the sexometer I haven't seen this

I'll have chokey posted on Instagram starts like this and yeah It's high noon solid six our next caller is Nicholas from Massachusetts. What's up Nicholas? How can we help you? Hey? So the question I submitted to you guys was, how do you know when you've reached your genetic growth potential? And I, very vague question, but based on maybe your age and training style. Oh, that's a, I have no idea.

Yeah. That's a tough one, Nick. How long have you been working out consistently for? And how old are you? This sounds like a Facebook formula. You know, you find out what your favorite color tells you about your genetic potential. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how long have you been training consistently and how old are you? 38. I've been, I started lifting when I was in my second grade with my dad. My dad was a, he was a runner, Olympic alternative. He got me into running and lifting really early.

Once I hit 18, I took my first basics for lifting a fundamental class in college. And then from 18 to now, I've lifted consistently, doing a bunch of different ways of lifting. When I lived in New York, I was doing a strong man training with some strong men. I worked out with that at a local gym. I've been doing martial arts for probably about 15 years now. In between all that, I'm basically trying to build my body up to be more durable and stronger and faster. That's great. Okay.

So we have a website. It's got a muscular potential calculator. I don't know when we get the website. I'm going to get the actual website for Doug. It's Maps macro. Oh, Maps macro.com. And it's one of the links on there. Yeah.

There's a link on there to figure out your muscular potential. It's a pretty generic good formula. It's generic, and they based it off of the top natural bodybuilders and the sizes of their wrists and their ankles. So it's super, super general, but here's a deal. I mean, it's hard to say you've been doing this for a long time, and I know why you're asking this question, right? You're motivated by changes in your body.

You wanna look forward to new things. You know, I'm sure at this point with being the fact that you've been doing martial arts for a long time, you've been working out for a long time, you probably love the process, right? I'm assuming you love the process of exercise regardless of the little. Listen, listen, Sal, the answer's way easier than that.

If you haven't ran through every maps program at least twice, they're still potential. Yeah, there you go. 10% more. Yeah. If you haven't done every one of those at least twice, they're still room, brother. No, I mean, but you get what I'm saying, right?

Nick, like, if you love the process, that's where you end up. Once you start to get older and you've been doing this for a long time, I've been doing a long time too. I'm at the point now where, and I love, look, I love making gains and strength. I love seeing my body change. Am I going to beat my best all-time PRs? Can I? I don't know, maybe, maybe not, but I love the process so much. I'm never going to stop. And then if you need that motivation, I suggest you try this. This is a fun little trick. Maybe not good to do all the time.

This might be my ego talking, but compare yourself to your 38-year-old friends that haven't worked out. And you see, and it watches you guys get older, how much further apart you get from them in terms of how you look and your feel and performance and health. So that's the real value. So you might even start declining once you hit your mid-40s in comparison to where you were in your mid 30s But compare yourself to other people in their mid 40s. It's gonna. You're gonna look like you're from a different planet Well, have you actually hit a wall right now? Is that what's like spur? Yes Pre-COVID I was doing a

Training routine where I you know, I would pick basically the big five lifts. I would do 10 sets of about maybe 70 to 80 percent of my one rep max. I would knock out three or four reps and then I'd go immediately into another big lift for three to four reps. Catch my breath, go back. I would do that 10 sets of that for each one of the lifts. It was a pretty intense workout. Most of the time I needed a spotter based on the weight I'm doing and how many sets. I was seeing good results. COVID hit and I was remanded to lifting

in my basement with basically just a rack in a bar. Still got a lot of work done, but since probably last year, I can't basically put any more weight on the bar. If I do, it's incrementally, then I find that, the weight drops back down. I'm not able to hit that lift for another couple of weeks, maybe a month. A lot of different programs I've been involved in, trying to increase strength and endurance as far as lifting and my weight has

stayed pretty much consistent. I've eaten more, I've eaten less. Weight's not really getting above 190 and I'm 6 feet tall. So stuck at 190, about 10 to 11 percent body fat. I know there's other factors like I got my testosterone levels tested. I am low. I Don't sleep enough. I know that With shift work and callouts and over times two kids Hobbies I'm getting about six hours of sleep. Maybe a night. It was four. So I'm working up from four Well, that's just that's a big lot of demand. Yeah, in conjunction with that type of a workout, I mean, there might be a little demanding. There might be a nice little tweak right there in itself, right? So just hearing you say that now, knowing that you're already kind of stressing yourself

a little bit with the kids in the sleep because we know what that's like. And then in addition to that, your training routine is pretty damn intense. Sal says this really well where he tells people, you know, what's your body can tolerate in what's ideal for it or two different things? So you may have trained yourself to be able to tolerate or handle that much intensity in your workout,

but your body may be trying to tell you that this is not what's ideal for it to continue to see progress. So that would be something right away. I know I made the joke about running through every maps program twice before you hit your muscle potential It's a little bit of a joke But at a seriousness have you actually kind of gone through and looked at our programs

Are there any of them that you've ran before or any of them that interest you because I have an idea on on which one I'd like to see you run? You guys always talk about the the maps and a Poll. And I started reading through them a couple nights ago. I've looked at them. I actually changed my training routine recently because I figured I was overtraining. Yeah. So I started backing off on the weight. So one day, I'm doing high reps, big five.

Then I'll take a day off to do some cardio stretch. I go to physical therapy for my back. Then the next day, I'll hit like a medium 8 to 12 reps of like 60, 70, maybe up to 80%. And then one day a week after another break day, I will go back to lifting heavy and trying to get closer to my 90% 1 rep max. I've taken a number of sets down. I've focused a lot more on warm up work and just basically going through the movement of the lift to make sure that my movement is consistent no matter how much weight I'm doing.

I've been trying to do that and still no movement. But I'd have to look at your routines a little bit more in depth. And I mentioned in the email that I paid for online programs. I did a Julian Smith one. Did that for about a year or two. It was just way too much volume. A ton of volume. So I'm in the gym for two and a half, three hours doing the workout. Yeah.

Nick, this, so here's something that's two things. First off, if your testosterone's low, hormone therapy, for me at least, was completely, I mean, I gained 12 pounds of lean body mass because mine was low too. Brought it up to the normal high, it was a game changer. But here's the second part. This is something that's interesting for those of us

that have been working out for many, many years, you're getting close to 40. and I've actually started really pieces together for myself. And if you look at studies, actually kind of show this, you need less volume, less frequency, and less intensity as you get older to get the same results. The same results, yeah. So I left hard four days a week now. I was a five and six day week kind of guy before. Now I could tolerate it if I did it now,

but I wouldn't be progressing as well as I am right now. So especially with muscle memory and especially with your past. So because you've been training for so long, less actually starts to get you better results as you start to get older. So I would back way down and start there. So the intensity, you're trying to hit like 90% of your one rep max. I would go way less than that.

And really, the two reps short of failure, I don't know if you're going, like you said, you had a spotter, so that's another thing is you might be going too close to failure to where it affects the workouts preceding that. So you should be able to get into the following workouts, energized and feeling like your body's responding even more. So you can build upon that versus being so hammered that your body feels like it's grinding its way through. So here's my prescription and where I was heading. Okay, we'll give you a map of Santa Bob,

so I'm gonna have Doug send that over to you. You start there. When you train that, make sure you leave two reps in the tank, right, two in the tank. Don't train to failure. You don't need a spotter. You don't even need to go to failure yourself. So leave two reps in the tank on all the exercises.

After that, go to performance and then strong. So that, if I had a hole to you, you were a client of mine, I would convince you to back, and why we're So that, if I had a hold of you, you were a client of mine, I would convince you to back, and why we're backing off too, I would be talking to you about your sleep routine and maybe getting your blood work done, and by the way, too, we have a free hormones form. So you can join it for free.

We have doctors that go in there and speak twice a month. That's totally free to you. You can ask them questions. It's amazing. So if you're not taking advantage of that, take advantage of that. It's mine, guess I'm not part. Oh, you did perfect. You can ask them questions. It's amazing. So if you're not taking advantage of that, take advantage of that It's mine. Guess at the point. Oh, you did perfect. Good. Good. So make sure you're taking advantage of that talking to those guys They're brilliant when it comes to talking about hormones

So that's what I would do. I would back you and it's a three-day week type of program It's full body. I would be really pushing you not to push beyond what it's programmed in there and really focus on our sleep, make sure we're dialing in there, getting yourself adequate rest. And then from there, I moved to a performance. I think you'll enjoy the performance of a training. You'll benefit from the mobility work.

And then I think strong, I think you would really like, I don't know how much you've done a lot of the unconventional type of lives, but I love to send that program to people that have been training consistently in the kind of bodybuilder style or it's very posterior chain heavy, which is awesome.

Yeah, and it's so unique, right? There's a lot of movements in there that, you know, even if you've been lifting a long time that you've never really trained, they're not all people that say like, oh, yeah, I do circus presses all the time, you know, or, you know, sandbag carries. That's a normal part of my routine. So it's got a lot of unconventional lifts in there that, you know, sandbag carries. That's a normal part of my routine. So it's got a lot of unconventional lifts in there that, you know, that's another thing that might shake up a little bit,

breaking us through that plateau is just focusing on a new adaptation. Okay. Sounds like solid advice. Excellent. So we'll send that program over to you. And then again, keep what I said in mind. And you may find that less, as you get older,

starts to behave in the ways that your old workouts did with more. Your body may respond much better. I'm finding this out right now for myself, and it's very different than how I responded 10 years ago. So give that a shot. Okay, so less. Yep, yep. All right, thanks for calling in.

All right, thanks for having me. The problem. Yeah, it's weird. It is very strange. I cut, I went down from six days a week to five days a week, got a little bit better progress. Then went from five to four with an added mobility day. So I have one day where I do kind of mobility and a little core work and I'm getting great results.

And you'll find that, especially if you worked out in the past and you've got this base that's kind of following you, you need less to get better results. And it just as you age, it's just kind of... I honestly, I think that people just don't realize how much stress they're accumulating throughout the day and whether that be work stress, relationship stress, lack of sleep stress, I feel like there's just a lot more responsibilities, there's a lot more demand on adults,

you know, as they go for it, they don't really like put that in comparison to physical stress. That's, I mean, I'm with you on that. I think it's less about the age and it's more so that you've been redlining your whole life and you don't even know it, and you don't even realize it,

then all of a sudden you get older and you kind of force it. Now, what was your biggest worry when you were 25, right? Yeah, and where were we going Saturday? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, and you've just been, you've been, you've been burning the cannibal both ends and then finally you, something forces you to back off a little bit and then all of a sudden you realize,

oh shit, my body's responding so well. It's just tough because especially if you've been working out for a long time, you think you know, right? What works for you, but the context has changed. Well, what you say, I out for a long time, you think you know, right? What works for you? But the context has changed. Well, what you say, I think it's so good, which is the understanding that what you tolerate and what is best or ideal or optimal for gains is different.

That can't be said enough. Like that, that it's all dose dependent. I don't, I definitely didn't think that way. Even as a young trainer. No, it was all about the max I could tolerate. Yeah, if I could do dependent. I don't, I don't, I definitely didn't think that way. As even as a young trainer. No, it was all about the max I could tolerate. Yeah, if I could do, if I wasn't sore enough, or I could handle another set, or another, because everything that you see,

especially on social media is promoting that. The all-out intensity and the more and the push, the drive, the motivation. So it's, it makes you think that I gotta do more, or I can do more, I can do more, and it's like, no, there's, there's, there's an amount that your body can tolerate and then there's an amount that is optimal for the best results.

And they're not the same at all and figuring that out for yourself is very difficult, especially I think when we're younger and we're kind of figuring our whole way out and figuring out how to program and train and diet. And it's obvious when his at a hard plateau, his sleep is terrible and his hormones. I mean, how many more signs do you need that you're, you're overdoing it? It's like, that's for sure. And it's hard. You take someone, what do you say? Like two

years old, he's been training with his dad. That's a second grade. Yeah. So he's, he's like, he's been, he's been an athletic person his whole entire life. So he has that kind of athletic mind. I mean, his dad was an Olympic alternate. So you know, I mean, he's got your genetics for sure. Right, and you know, there's, and he's got that, probably a competitive aspect the way he approaches everything. So, you know, telling that guy that, yo,

you're five, six, day a week, I want you to train twice a week. I mean, that's really, I would take him all the way back down to the two of us. Yeah. Our next caller is Sarah from Connecticut. What's up, Sarah? How can we help you? Hi. So I just want to start off by saying, I am so grateful that you guys are letting me

ask my question. And I'm so excited to be asking it. I'm a longtime fan. I've been around since Adam was competing. And you guys have truly been like the magic pill of like my health and fitness journey. And so I just want to say thank you. Awesome, thank you.

Salah is a pill to work with too, in case you're wondering. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So my question is, I'm a high school biology teacher. And I've been given the opportunity to pilot and create a biology of sports performance class at my school. So this is truly an opportunity for me

to create a dream job. So I want to do it right and make sure it's as successful as possible. It's meant to be geared toward the high school athlete so they can learn how to maximize their performance and their sport through training, nutrition, and recovery, although the regular student will also be allowed entry into the class. I'm very excited to say that my principal cleared this for a year-long science elective class and will be allowed to access the school's brand new weight room two days a week during class time. We will spend the other three days of the week in the classroom. The goal for students by the end of the year is to design and implement a five-week program working towards a goal they identify to help them better perform at their sport. The biology

portion of the class will be focusing on anatomy and physiology of relevant body systems, and we'll be working on improving scientific literacy by unpacking and analyzing scientific studies, some of which I plan to grab from what you guys have discussed on the show. So I need your help in planning the sequence of how to teach the fundamentals of training principles to students. There's the classroom portion of things like how to manage frequency, volume and intensity, movement patterns such as squat, hinge, press and pull, movement patterns in different planes

of movement such as the saggional plane, the transverse plane and rotational movements, the difference in benefits of compound versus isolation movements, the difference in benefits of bilateral and unilateral movements and eventually how to possibly write an effective training program. Then there's the portion of teaching for the forum and mechanics of lists in the weight room. So I will also have access to bands and PVC pipes in the classroom for working on mobility, isometrics, and things like trigger sessions. I want to do my best to blend a theory what the science says and reality to give students a deep understanding of how they can be the best athletes they can be. So my question is how would you recommend to sequence teaching, training to kids both in the

classroom and weight room simultaneously as theory and implementation don't always line up? This is awesome. Yeah, I wish I had you. Everything you just said is awesome. Yeah. And like Justin said, you obviously have been listening to the show for a long time. This is way cool. You know what? Justin, what do you think about sharing with her,

what you're doing right now with the football team, the high school football team? Yeah, I think the way you laid that out with the isometric foundation, and then you build upon that You want if you want something with like a philosophy or a theory behind it on like how we would teach somebody those I think what you're doing with them is a pretty solid. I think what you're proposing is much more comprehensive What I had to kind of do was scale back in terms of what I could establish pretty quickly without having to

Educate and explain too much. And that was like a big hurdle for me because I want to establish basically everything you just mentioned. It's amazing. I think this is a whole course that kids could go through and find a ton of value with. So for me, it was really just about like hitting, you know, the biggest offender is as quickly as possible. And that's really just like body communication and stability and control of their body. And so that's where I found a lot of value in isometrics and placing them in these positions

and these split stance positions and, you know, positions where they have to build strength and generate force. So we've been going through the first month, month and a half, we're gonna be doing isometric heavy and then doing unilateral in conjunction with that to address a lot of those things right out of the gates and then progressing them further into like more of our five by five type style with compound lifts. And so I mean, I have this whole thing as a potential full-blown program for student

athletes in the making, but that's something that maybe we can communicate offline later, and I can kind of show you the full sort of scope of it. Sarah, I'm going to speak from a student perspective. So first off, I wish I could take this class. I wish you I had as a teacher. Yeah. And high school sounds super awesome. I know the challenge with teaching anything to anyone is can I get them excited about it?

Because obviously an excited, interested student is gonna absorb way more information than one that's maybe not so excited and not so interested So you've been listening to the show for a long time and so you already know that our formula is Entertain and then also throw in information and we did that on purpose because we learned as trainers that Most of our clients were not fitness fanatics I mean if I was talking to fitness fanatic I could get real deep in the weeds with the science and talk specifically about training and adaptation, and they would love it. Like if I did that to my clients,

I would have lost half of them, you know, three months in. So I had to really figure out how to communicate to them in effective ways. What I'm gonna recommend to you is to use a lot of analogies. Analogies are really cool. Like an example would be the analogy that we use about the central nervous system and muscles

and their relationship. And I like to use the speaker versus the amplifier analogy. Another thing would be to talk about myths, right? So when you have your students in there, you could talk about some of the most common myths. Like, lifting weights makes you bulky, right? That's a big myth and, you know, how to speed up your metabolism. Like, I think that would get kids kind of excited. What do you mean faster metabolism? What does that look like? I thought lifting weights did make me bulky.

You may even want to bring up contributions of different types of exercise or sports into what you're talking about. I would have a picture of Arnold. What have bodybuilders taught us about how the body adapts to exercise? What has power lifters taught us? And you can use celebrities so that the kids can be like, oh, I know Lance Armstrong, like what did we learn from that kind of training

and how does that work? And how does that make my body perform even better? You might even put something up and say, why do we find attractive bodies attractive? So that's kind of a lort, like what is that? What do you talk about? Well, why do we find attractive bodies attractive? So that's kind of a, like, what is that? What do you, what are you talking about? Well, why do we think men with broad shoulders and tightways, like, well, that may show signs

of better performance and higher testosterone levels? And why do we find, you know, these types of things to look better than others, there's a biological component. I think those things would make people very interested in kind of what you're talking about. But honestly, you ran down the list of the stuff you're gonna talk about.

I can't think of anything else that I would add, really aside from just trying to make it kind of to hook them, right? Yeah, hook them with the myths and the, maybe ask them like, what's a better way to, if somebody's trying to get lean and lose weight, what's a better approach? And then you can put like running every single day,

lifting weights or whatever. And then you can go in and kind of counter some of the myths, because that gets people, you know, hooked right up. I like the example of your different avatars, and you can make it very simple in terms of like, what typically like their training protocol would be like as a difference.

Just because of what you brought up, with them trying to create their own program It'd be cool to put those examples there just to give them some some kind of baseline Right for every one of these adaptations that you went through which I think are all the ones that we'd want to cover in a foundational You know class like this I would do exactly that but before we get like too deep in the weeds because this literally We could turn this into like a three-hour right here. I mean, that would be great. I'm going to remind them. Well, this is what I'm going to do for you.

So, and I think this is the best place for us to start. I think all of us are, when you were reading it off, you should see the looks on all of our faces. Everybody was like, oh, this is so cool. We would love to help you. So, I think the, I think the next step for us to help you would be, it already sounds like you're on the right track. I think to start to lay out what the curriculum is gonna look like and then running it by Justin

or one of us or all of us, you can email us personally. When we hang up, I'll have Jerry because you're in contact with her, give you our personal emails. And then what we can do is just kind of, as you're working through it and you and you put stuff together We can give our feedback of oh, I love that or maybe add this to it I think that's probably where we be the most valuable versus giving you all these like vague random ideas

Yeah, you know, you know, it was really cool to you know, just something else Sarah is that when you show When you can show a student a change immediately in how their body's moving, it's really exciting. So I remember one time I took one of my first certifications, and they were talking about how you could get a muscle to elongate easier. So they did, they put us on the floor, they had us do a hamstring stretch, you could only go so far. And then they said, now I want you to push against the person who's stretching your hamstring

and hold that for 30 seconds, which I did. And then relax. And all of a sudden, I got three more inches of flexibility immediately. Right? So I was like, oh my gosh, this is so weird. You know, it's like almost like doing an experiment in class where you're showing, you know, the effect of something right away. Like that kind of stuff gets people so engaged and so interested in kind of what's going on. So I can't stress that enough. Like, if I was, and I did volunteer a few times and teach nutrition and exercise to students, and I'd really get them excited by doing stuff like that,

because once I got them engaged, it was the rest was, you know, I think we're throwing a bunch of things at Sarah that she's probably good at. She's a fucking teacher, right? So I think what you're looking for from us is the expertise on how you program the curriculum and I definitely think that we can help and I would like to help you. So I think the place that we start is you begin laying out what is you know what is you know first month or week of the curriculum you're

planning on it to look like and then allow us to kind of put our two cents in and do that and I think this is great because Justin is literally in this world right now. We were on the last, we were flying from Utah just last week and a week before and we were all looking over what he was creating for these high school students right now. So this is kind of where we're at right now. And I think that maybe you guys could definitely

help each other out. Yeah, that would be very much appreciated. Because that is where I'm struggling. It's like, I know all these principles for myself and I know how to apply them to myself, but in terms of how to teach it to kids, so it's understandable and digestible is where I'm struggling.

So the order of how to teach it to them. Yeah, excellent. No, no, no, we'd love to get involved. So, appreciate your questions, Aaron. Thank you so much for what you're doing. These kids are really lucky. Yep. Thank you so much for what you're doing. These kids are really lucky. Yep. Thank you.

Yeah, how fun. Yeah. I wish I had that class. Yeah, I know, right? It's, you know, though, it's really exciting that that we're seeing stuff like this. I mean, it's, I mean, God, when we all were in school, like, you know,

PE was the extent of, you know, any sort of, you know, anatomy or physical education that you got. And it was so generic. I just think if you teach kids about their bodies and what's happening and here's why you feel this way and here's what happens when you do this and that, I think it's so valuable. This is like valuable life information because when I get them as adults as a trainer and they hire me, we have the unpacks so much nonsense. They just don't know anything about what's going on

and how this works and why do I feel this way? And it's like, my God, we could have learned that a lot. Well, I really loved your idea of give these kids a famous person or athlete. I was picturing it. That's perfect. Like literally, you could, you know, and that's how I think I would write this curriculum. And let's, the way Justin programmed to give like a generic overview you could, you know, and that's how I think I would write this curriculum.

And let's, the way Justin programmed to give like a generic overview is like, you know, he did a lot of central nervous system training at the beginning, right? So isometric, right? So that's the foundation of it, right? So then I would, I would pick like a sport or a person that you can connect that to and say, what did they teach us about that? And we like the benefits of isometrics and then break down all the science that supports that.

And then so for this first month, kids, we are gonna be learning some of the best isometric moves and this is how we would apply it to you. We're gonna, this is why we're doing it. Here's where we learned it from. Or imagine you have a picture of like the rock. Like how do you guys think the rock works out? How he actually works out?

What could we, what do you think you can do different? What can we learn from that? What about this particular celebrity, this person? Is it just get the kids like, oh, I follow that person. I want to see what they're doing, you know? Just to get them engaged. Yeah, and it's trial and error too.

So she doesn't have to put so much pressure on this to be perfect. Like honestly, that's the biggest thing I've learned is as I'm going through it, I'm writing notes even to the program that I had written down on paper. And this is just something we learned as trainers anyways, is that we iterate. We constantly iterate based off of the feedback.

And so, it's going to find that it's obviously a different audience. And they're going to respond a little bit differently. And like you said, I think the celebrity angle, you're going to find moments like that where it's more relatable, definitely lean into those moments. Totally. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness or health goal.

You can also find all of us on Instagram. So Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump Salon, Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps and a ballac, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic.

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