Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1760: From Prison to Prosperity With Dave Dahl of Dave's Killer Bread

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Dave Dahl about the fascinating series of events that led him to serve 15 years in prison and then to subsequently transform his life as the creator of Dave's Killer Bread, a company which he sold in 2015 for $275 million. What was the impetus behind Dave’s Killer Bread? (2:45) The first transformation in his life that you wouldn’t expect. (5:52) The epiphanies experienced while in prison. (7:58) Why everything should be given to people when they are ready. (13:45) Your mind is EVERYTHING! (15:20) Learning to appreciate the process. (17:01) Embracing the struggle. (19:04) Finding his hidden talent and its impact on the family business. (20:50) Creating something that people want. (29:58) The story of pursuing the idea of Costco. (34:07) You make your own luck. (36:36) Being a four-time loser in the wrong game. (40:43) Being part of others’ transformations. (42:57) How success is purpose. (48:14) Avoiding the hindsight mentality. (50:17) Why everything happens before it matters. (55:08) The fallout from the company selling. (56:27) His obsession/passion for art and the idea for his dream home. (59:11) His call to action for kids in his position growing up. (1:05:07) The importance of having a vision and common goal for a successful business. (1:07:17) Related Links/Products Mentioned February Promotion: MAPS Performance and MAPS Aesthetic 50% off!! **Promo code “FEB50” at checkout** Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “MINDPUMP” at checkout for 20% off your first month’s supply of Seed’s DS-01 Daily Synbiotic** The Official Website of Dave Dahl Second Chance employment for ex-cons at Dave's Killer Bread The Story of Dave Dahl and His Killer Bread - The Ringer Dave's Killer Bread sold for $275M…Now what? Visit PRx Performance for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Dave Dahl - YouTube Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Dave Dahl (@davedahlcollection)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we talked to Dave Dahl. You might have heard his bread, Dave's killer bread. Now what's interesting about this guy is his story.

It's got to be one of the most inspirational turnaround stories I've ever heard about in my entire life. This guy went to prison. I think three or four times had some terrible, terrible outcomes. Turned his life around and built an extremely successful business, talks all about it, all the epiphanies and changes he had to make in his life, and what it took to go from career criminal to extremely successful entrepreneurs. So it's a great episode. I really enjoyed this one. Now you can find Dave online at DaveDoll360.com, so it's DAV, D-A-H-L,

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So again, both are 50% off. Here's what you gotta do if you want either one. If you want maps performance, go to mapsgreen.com. If you want maps aesthetic, go to mapsblack.com and then use the code FEB50 for the 50% off discount. Once again, it's FEB50 with no space for that discount. Now you have a very interesting success story, one of the most interesting that I've ever heard.

I'd like to go back and talk a little bit about how that all started. By the way, we're all fans of your product, I've seen it. For long, I mean, I mean, I love the days of break. Yeah, it's really, really good. In fact, I think Doug, your mom was a huge fan.

Yeah, she's been a fan for years. Doug was actually telling them out out in the lobby before you guys came out. I think she's been more fan for years. Doug was actually telling him out in the lobby before you guys came out. I think she's been more excited about him as a guest than any other guest. That's awesome. We've had on the show. Yeah, that's pretty good.

We've had on people. Yeah, let's go back and how did that all start? How did you come up with the idea and what was the, I guess the impetus? Well, if you talk about the bread, it took a long time to get to that point, but my dad was a baker and a whole grain baker before people even knew what a whole grain was, right? And he was in the natural foods and we had a health food store, a little health food store

in front of our bakery when I was a kid. So I was introduced to like Hoffman protein pills. I just love those. That was my, that was my thing. So I developed a real taste for protein supplements. I liked it. I like the taste of them, you know, as well as man. Even the ones back to him, those were all they were good. He knew what he was doing. This Hoffman guy was one of those. He's a pioneer. Yeah, you know where he is. Yeah, yeah, way back in the day. You ever take the Beverly Protein Supplements

and all that stuff too? Oh, I don't know about that. Yeah, I don't remember that. But I remember the Hoffman, the big thing, and tried it open and get it. Yeah. Where was this? Where'd you grow up?

I grew up in Gresham, Oregon, which is 12 miles outside of Portland. It's a suburb. Okay, so that's where you kind of got your roots in the baking. But you didn't decide to start the business then, right? That was a little later. My dad had to have the bakery, so we grew up working or asked us off in the bakery. But for next to nothing, nobody had any money.

You know, if we didn't have money, and people had got a business, that's where all my so-called friends used to think, but, oh, you got a business. So you must be rich. But it was the opposite. We survived. My dad worked very hard to make, and so did we, to make a work. So that was that. My dad was ahead of his time as far as the product. You know, nobody cared to keep hippies.

Yeah, I was like unheard of back then. Was this the 50s or 60s where he first started? It was the 60s where he got started. It was the 70s by the time I was getting into it. And, you know, my dad hated hippies. He was a Nixon guy. Mm-hmm. But it's pretty ironic. Yeah, it dad hated hippies. He was a Nixon guy. But it's pre-Ironic. Yeah, it's all in the organic world.

Everything about my story and my dad and all that is ironic. You know, I hated my dad growing up until I realized how hard it is to live and grow up and be a man. You know, it wasn't until he was dead that I realized he was pretty cool doing his own way. So anyway, I grew up in and I was a lost swole early on. I went to Seventh-day Avenue school. like every day was the Bible and every weekend was the Bible and eventually I rebelled against that. And I didn't know who I was, but I knew I wasn't that. And so I went out in my teenage years and started getting into one scrape after another. A lot of weird stuff, it's probably not worth even mentioning, but there's just lots of things

that happened and eventually I went to prison. I became a mathematic, loved math. First transformation in my life was a needle full of meth amphetamine in my arm. And did you first use it in prison? It was this before you went. Before, yeah. It was the reason I went to prison but you know at first it was like

You know, there's things in your life that feel like in the piphany that was my first epiphany and I Just you know, I thought well everything's gonna be cool from now on I know what's up, but I just went out and became a criminal to support my habit and went to prison four times with, I got lots of stories, but I mean, how old were you the first time you went in? How old were you the first time you went in? It was in my mid 20s.

Mid 20s? Yeah. And it was really? I was in my mid-twenties. Mid-twenties? Yeah, and it was really. I was like, hey, Bloomer. And was, were you, were you, were you caring? Were you distributing? What got, what caught you the first time? Well, the first time was burglary. And I was just an inept burglary.

But it got me by for a while, telling me what to present. And so I got, I actually look at every time I went to prison as sort of a good thing, looking back and how it taught me a lot of things over time. I needed it, you know. Were there each time you went in, were there like pivotal things that you remember were learning, like the first time, like this was the lesson I learned, the second time I learned, like can you? Well the first time okay the first three times I was trying to be a better criminal. This is what you hear a lot right a lot of times people say that they go in and

they just learn how to be a better. How can I not get caught? That's what you're thinking you know and you know you start looking you look up all to all the gangster types and all that stuff and you know I eventually realized I'm my fourth trip to prison. I finally was like, okay, this isn't working. This is not what I meant to do. In fact, I was suicidal and I don't know how I made it through a few years of that last sentence, but I had my second epiphany, my second transformation began due to enough struggle, enough adversity, eventually bringing about a change.

And the change was, I asked for help, but it's not something you associate with prison, right? So it took me a long time. Would you ask? I asked, I put it in a kite. It took me a long time. A kite is an inmate communication form. Oh, okay.

And I put this kite in, but I wrote it several times before I actually put it in, because I never could quite, I look at it as courage now and humility that it took. And just, it was just a moment of clarity where I realized I didn't have to be anything but who I am. I'm okay with who I am. Just right now no matter what happens today, I'm gonna make the most of it.

And from that point on, it's very simple, but it was humility in the sense that I am no more and no less than I need to be. You know, I can all and the problem always was I would pretend to be more and you know, harder and tougher, you know, all that to get by and inside I was equivering jelly-like mass and I eventually realized I didn't have to be either one of those. I'm just going to be me and I'm going to apply myself to the next opportunity. Now this was just something that just like came to you and you're like I got to do this I got to write and then who do you write this to you said it's like a way to communicate in prison

Who does this end up going to or was it an anonymous? Well, I didn't know who it was but I knew I I knew it was psych services Psychiatric services, but the person who prescribed me medication services, but the person who prescribed me medication was not a psychiatrist. They were a nurse's physician's assistant. So they were able to prescribe anything pretty much. And he gave me this med and I was never diagnosed with anything, but I told him my situation. I didn't say I was suicidal because I'd be like suicidal. You don't tell them that, but

I told him I had some issues and he said, well, I want to try this medication and I did. It was paxle and I don't know how much of my transformation began with that moment of putting the chide in and that humility and that kind of like new courage or how much was the medication. And then about a month later I had been on a list for computer-rated drafting which I was CAD-CAM, they called it, and I was like, I don't have any idea what that is, but I'm on the list for it. And I'd been on the list for three years. It came up right after this sort of beginning of a transformation I was having and it was the perfect time because I didn't even know how to turn on the computer when I got in

there. But within a short time I was passing everybody everybody else up because I was excited about it. I was, and I realized all of a sudden that I'm not dumb, you know, just because I've done a lot of dumb things, doesn't mean I'm not capable of doing other things. Now I've heard you on a few other like interviews and during this part of your transformation was building yourself and growing physically,

part of that, did you get into training a lot? And how did you spend your time, you know, besides, you know, the drafting in prison? That's a good one. I always, when I, every time I went down with the prison, I had some sort of training that I was doing. And those days, a lot of it was, it was, it was always, there was the, the weights and, you know, depending on where you were at, sometimes the weights were better than other places.

You had better opportunities, and more time to do it, say than somewhere else. I was in so many different locations in prison that it was like going from gym to gym, and I finally, but one thing that I always did was I ran. I would run the track and it kept me lean, but I also had a pretty good physique, you know, so those were the good old days. I was before all the other things that, as age has kind of brought me to a different

point where I have to do like you said, I have to modify my training to fit what I'm capable of doing. But in those days, yeah, there was training running, I was definitely one of the best to speak some yard, not the biggest, but one of the best to speak. How do you feel? I would love to ask someone like you this question because a while ago, there was a controversy around weights in prisons. I know you're in California, they removed them because they said, oh, we don't want the inmates to get too big and strong or using his weapons.

Now, for someone who understands the positives that just in how empowering it is to improve your health and your fitness and not just that but also have something you can take away if so people look forward to it and say okay I want to be a particular way in prison so I can work out. I thought it was a terrible idea. Do you agree with that? Do you see it as a positive? Well this is the way I look at that. I even heard that particular question ask although when I look at at that. I even heard that particular question asked, although when I look at, you know, when they say, take it away, you know, take it away, that's not that's not the way to do it. Okay, maybe you build yourself, maybe you prove yourself on another accountability line, you go, I am, maybe I'm just doing pushups now because they're not going to let me use

the weights. Maybe I'm doing that, you know, maybe I'm walking around a pillar maybe I'm just doing pushups now, because they're not gonna let me use the weights. Maybe I'm doing that. Maybe I'm walking around a pillar, and I'm doing a pushup, and pillar again, two pushups. So it gets the 21 to just see how many people make it through that, right? It's, that was the kind of stuff we used to do. We do whatever we had to do, but later on,

but I was always like bummed out when they started taking the weights and making them more restrictive and less time to use them. And I just think that everything should be given to people when they're ready. Yeah. Yeah. Each time you went in, was it, did it get easier for you to serve the time? Or do you have like

a moment that was like one of the scariest times in present and was at the first, the second, the third, fourth, like? There was some scary times, there was some fights and stuff, and things that, you know, when you end up going to the hole, that sucks. It's more about— That's solitary confinement. Yeah, okay. It's more about being able to take—it's more about that's solitary confinement. Yeah, okay. It's more about being able to take

being it's more about your opportunities and when like when you're working hard and you you find something that you can you can get into that helps your time go by and you know you're getting better as a person when you can do that. It kind of it's totally different than what would happen to me, what was really bad in the first few years of my last sentence when I really had this moment of clarity about how bad things were. I mean, you couldn't, there's no way you could say that things weren't really, really bad. And, but the worst thing was my mind was that I was happening to my situations. I had not learned at that point. The first three times I went to prison and the half of the second fourth time, I had not yet learned that your mind is everything.

It all starts right in your mind and you can control, you can create your future. You guys know that, but I didn't know that. I didn't understand that easy thing, you know. It's simple, but not easy, right? Simple, but then making that change. Easy to understand. Yeah. Would you say that's the biggest difference between you and other people who've gone through those experiences? Because here you are for a little while, their career criminal come out and you create and we'll get into this An extremely successful business like talk about a complete reversal But you're such a small percentage of people that end up going through those problems What would you say is a big difference between you and them?

Was it that realization that, hey, I have this ability to change my life? Would you say that's? I think I got lucky in the sense that things happened when I needed them to. I don't know that everybody is looking for that, the ones who are looking for that and are open and find the courage and the humility to do it, which is the big challenge. Guys in there, people in general, but those guys in prison are used to instant gratification. I get, I go out and do a burglary, I do a, you know, I slap somebody around, take their stuff, that's instant gratification, you know.

You're not going to get that in the real world, in the world that we live in, or that I live in now. So you have to adjust to, you have to actually learn to appreciate the process. That was a big factor for me. Like when you're lifting weights, you gotta appreciate what you're doing at the time. You're like, oh, I'm gonna feel great in 10 years when I get it.

So true. You're going to build big muscles right now. I'm going to take a while. And you got to love yourself. You got to be accepting of what you're capable of. I, being a guy who appreciates some of the aspects of alcoholics and anonymous and such. There's one thing that we all, it's the serenity prayer. It's God-bammy this serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the

wisdom to know the difference. That is beautiful wisdom. Profound. And I always am thinking about that. What do you, what do you, what do you think was the most pivotal thing then for you? Did you read something? Did someone speak something to you? I mean, what made you transition then from the career criminal and heading down the wrong path?

I said, okay, I'm going to change. This is no longer me. Well, there's this period of time before that happens where you're kind of just lost and you're getting like little hints of things that might that you might be able to do and stuff. But as long as you have, as long as I had that sense of low self-esteem, low self-worth, as long as I was feeling that way and I wasn't able to overcome that, I couldn't, I would hear all these things about self-improvement, self-help and all this, so I would read that kind of stuff. It just didn't stick. You knew it was right, but it didn't stick until I had that moment of like, well,

there's gonna be ups and downs, there's gonna to be this road that you're going to go down and you're going to go this way and go that way and you're going to struggle. But now I am going to enjoy the struggle. I'm going to look at it. The rest of my life from that point on, even though I've had some doozy since then, have been able to deal with it, and overcome it, ignoring that, even sometimes when I physically couldn't see that I could overcome something,

I knew from my past, I knew inside up here that I could do it because I'd done it before. I just didn't, sometimes I didn't know how, but you figured it out. Yeah, that's, so at what point did you decide, I'm gonna start a business? Yeah, that's that's. So at what point did you decide, uh, I'm going to start a business. Okay, that's why I get in that. I know you brought up, um, drafting a bit of how that inspired you. Oh, you might a bit like what?

What is it, particularly, uh, that you learned, uh, from that? And then we're able to kind of take that momentum with you back to the real world. Well, outside. No, me. That's a big deal. Another big part of the transformation was applying myself to what I was able to give me the opportunity to learn. And for some reason, drafting just fit the bill.

I began to draw plans. I would, that guitar, for instance. It's one of the first things I tried to draw in there. You know, it's pretty complicated. There's a lot of things to think about when you make that. And it's a lot of fun, you know, because you, and what you do is you you start with a piece or anything that already exists. You learn how to replicate it. Not easy. Sometimes it's easy. Sometimes it's not, you know, it's easier than,

but you work, say you work with somebody who has a vision for what they want. That's, you know, that could be, or you know it yourself. for what they want. That could be, or you know it yourself, where you begin with the idea, or the end in mind, and then you start working toward that end, but you have to start with something that already exists, like this can. But you want this can to have wings. If that's the case, you've got to design the wings, but you have to learn the cannon first. And I did that with lots of things in prison, and I got cut short because they put me in a drug program. I just, oh, man, but it got me out two years early on almost 10 years since. So the point is to your point, Justin, right? Yeah. It was, it was, you know, people go, how does that apply to making bread? Well, it applies to everything.

That mindset, your body, your body, your body, you guys obviously have used those principles designing your body, designing your routines and all the different things that you do in your life. That's what I just really internalized that process and I took it on to bread. My brother, the reason why I chose bread rather than say going to work for somebody else, which was what I had intended to do. My brother was running my dad's bakery and my brother's like eight years older than me. And anyway, I did not want to go back to the family

and it was just like the bridge was, I did not see that bridge anymore. I didn't want to go back. But I all of a sudden, I started dreaming, excuse me. I started dreaming about the bakery. It was weird. Like literally having dreams? Yeah. Oh wow.

They were nightmares. Is everything I could remember? You didn't enjoy it, right? Yeah, I was like, I have, why would I want to go back to this? Yeah. Oh, weird. Yeah, because I had a whole, I got a lot of stories. But you would think bakery, what's the big deal, right? But it is kind of in its own way. And anyway, so my brother gave me the chance. He kind of, as always,

known that I was, I was a little bit creative. I just never replied it, right? I get out there. And the first thing I did for my brother, there was like a few days out of prison, it was early 2005, very early. And I just went to work, filling in for people that didn't make it, and it was happening all the time. It wasn't long until I was four hours, 50 hours a week. And I started envisioning how I was going to make these products. And I told my brother, look, I'm going to work 100 hours a week,

you know, maybe, you know, whatever, a lot of hours. And you're not going to want to pay me by the hour. I shouldn't have done that. But it turned out all right. I made this bread. First, it was like cookies. He wanted me to update the cookies that we made for trade of jails.

He wanted to make them healthier. So I just replaced ingredients and I even added a new variety. And... Now, at this point, did you realize you had a talent for this? Were you like, hey, I'm... Yeah, and also are you...

I can see my weight to the end product. It was like, it wasn't even about me. It was about the process. You don't know me. Yeah. So you had this talent. You didn't even know. It was a natural, it was like breathing to me.

You know, it still is. I would, I would love to be back there doing it. I mean, were you having to, I mean, cause, you just said that like it was so easy, but it's like for, I couldn't, I couldn't bake if my life depended on it. And so as big as you want how did you know how did you know what ingredients Sorry nervous over here. No, I mean, I wouldn't even know what ingredients to put with what to make it taste a certain way or to quote unquote make it healthier. So were you reading and studying about

this beforehand or did you literally just just take a shot at it and start knowing what you're doing? Well, I warmed up with the cookies. They were fairly simple. The cookies are simpler than bread. It's a much more complex process and everything that goes the science into it is really challenging. So I did the cookies and then I guess, what it was is I was really just getting going. I'm like, okay, I got 20 more kinds of cookies I'm gonna make and my brother goes, we don't really make cookies.

We make bread. You see that line over the bread line over there? That's what I want you to fill that because he had been working all those years on creating something even though everything was some old contraption, right, that he managed to make work because nobody had real money. So, um, now did he identify the talent? He was like, Hey, man, you're kind of good at it. And I was a 30 gave chance coming out of prison because I would think that like, depending on your guy's relationship, like, was he worried at all that like you're going to take it seriously?

No, he was worried that I would fuck up again because that was the history. But he also saw that something had changed to me. So he was in a good place with it. But there was that, the past always is there. So plus I was very high-strump. I was just like moving really fast and making everybody uncomfortable because I'm just doing this, all of a sudden I'm making new products

Nobody wants a bunch of stuff that's going to make them have to work harder or whatever you know So nobody really saw so what it was I To your question it was like um It was easy in the same way the drafting was easy so you because I knew the process I knew that I didn't think I was gonna be a millionaire. What I knew and thought is that I would be, make a successful product,

so I would improve the families standing in the community or in the business and the community. And I just, that's how I saw it. I didn't have huge dreams about it. I was like incremental. And I, but the thing was, it was the summer of the year that I got out. So it was eight months after I got out

that I was able to take four varieties. I had six ready to go, but we said, it's just two four, a bread to the farmer's market. Things just kind of fell into place again. This is one of those beautiful things that happens. That happened with Dave's kind of bread. They had something that the farmer's market called the Summer Loaf. It was a bread festival, bread fair, where all these artists and bakers around town could bring their little products.

It was great, you know, I mean, but they didn't have it before since, but they had it that year. Are you competitive? You have competitive streak? Or you competitive? Well, it's not that I'm, I just, I strive. I strive, you know, and I don't hold myself like, like I would hate to be in the workout, have to work out with you guys, you know, I couldn't, I knew I couldn't compete so I'm doing like, there's no, there's no competition there. It's more like, wow, you guys, okay, I can learn something, I can learn something. I say humility coming in again right there. Yeah, it's so important. The humility makes it possible to learn. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, right now you're teaching right now, so that's good. I'm looking at revisiting a lot of things and that's always good. So the company itself was, there's a different name for the bread that your brother was creating and making. What led to the decision of it's sort of becoming Dave's killer bread like. How did that come with everybody being great at that? By the way, that's smart.

I think that was smart marketing, you know. It's funny, but it's all natural. It's like when people, when you try too hard to market something, it's different than when it comes natural like that. Well, as a genius marketing, well, okay, you go to prison for 15 years, four times for 15 years, almost dying, and get beat up by the cops, and all the other things, and then get out and do your thing, and you'll have the same kind of marketing opportunity. It's a blueprint right there. But for me, I did, I understood marketing in the very simplest ways, terms that if you, you know, you got to create what somebody wants. Now, the thing is,

and there's certain features and benefits that you look for, that you want to put in your product, right? And I thought that I could go and do surveys and find out what people wanted. But to a degree, you can do that. But you know, the fact is, people don't really know what they want. They know they want a healthy product. They know they want, you know, this, this, and this, and this, but they don't, they could never tell me how to make, they could never say, well, I want that bread.

And good. Did you read about business and stuff or were you just thinking this? Well, I think there's a sort of amount of it because from growing up in the family, that was, we were knuckleheads, but. There's a famous quote from, I famous quote from Henry Ford. He said, if I had given people what they want, I would have built a better horse carriage.

Right. Exactly. Good luck. Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. I never heard that quote, but that's perfect. I was like that. I wanted to do surveys. I wanted to build this product thinking, using all the scientific, you know, means at my disposal. But there was no bread. There was no book that talked about how to make killer bread. If you follow the science in the books, you'll never make that bread. You just won't do it. Your mind's going here, your mind's going there. science in the books, you'll never make that bread. You just won't do it.

If your mind's going here, your mind's going there, but you won't make the bread that's already out there. Right, right. So you make some of this and you bring it to this fair or whatever and crushes? They would crazy. People would win nuts and it was just perfect, right? It's perfect marks.

Time means beautifully. Test marketing. If you can test market a product, how great, you know, if you can, without spending a lot of money, you know, we worked really hard, but we had, we maybe, we wouldn't believe the kind of budget we had.

We didn't have one. And it was my nephew and myself. It was our project. And we were at each other's throats from the very beginning and never ended. But we were, we managed to get by because we had a common goal in a sense and we would take the product to the market and people would freak out and they go, well wait, the farmer's market's going to end where am I going to get this now?

Oh, I thought you'd never ask. Tell your story that you go to, tell the manager that you need this bread and tell your friends to tell them. And so forth. That was how we got the word out. I was getting news, write-ups, media stuff within the farmers market.

Yeah, within months. And then it just cascaded. I mean, you would not believe the swell of attention I got in those days. What year is this? What year is this? 2005 was kind of the beginning of it. 2006 was really starting to, and you know what I mean?

Each year was like growing by double triple quadriple. At what point were you like, this is crazy. I'm gonna be making a lot of money. I couldn't imagine making that much money because the margin was so low. Sure, and you have to sell a lot of bread. Yeah, but we could see, so here was, it was one thing, okay, skip to say 2007,

and Costco is saying, hey, my customers keep saying they want your bread, right? And I'm like, we're in this little place, you know, we're 15,000 square foot place, which is pretty small for what we're trying to do. And we couldn't afford to go down for a day. We couldn't afford to move our our business bank was it was 2000 now it was getting to be 2008 by this time right by the time that we started really thinking about trying to pursue this idea of Costco. And we knew that we

were going to have to move to a much bigger we knew that we were gonna have to move to a much bigger facility. We're gonna have to buy all this equipment, all these things we were gonna have to do. And we're just three, three hillbillies. It's gotta be scary, it's gotta be scary as hell. Right? Exciting, but scary, but scary as hell.

It's scary because you don't know, yeah, you don't know, you don't even know don't even know because first of all it's a 2008 Down turn the economy. Yeah, I didn't see it because the product just kept going going going going nobody nobody cared you know It was the most expensive bread out there, but It was a lot you know they weren't gonna buy their boats and their you know toys But they weren't gonna buy their bread. That toys, but they weren't gonna buy their bread. That's what I found out. So it's the Cadillac of breads.

So anyway, that was, it was something that we had to do and we never took a break on making bread. We were making it in two places for a day or two. And, but we finally were able to get a loan through someone who was willing to take a chance on a startup, kind of a startup company in a sense in that way. Even though we've been around for 50 some years, it was a new line within an old company. And so that was the long answer

to what you said, which was, why did you start a business or how did that come about? I didn't actually start with it and I wouldn't have chosen to start with. I would have been happy to go to work for somebody and just kick ass and just be the best employees they ever had. You know what's interesting about this is that going through what you went through,

a lot of people, most people I think would look back and say, man, life dealt me a lot of challenging hands. I'm unlucky. It's just life sucks. It's what happened to me. And look at my circumstances. I'm a victim. But you've said something now several times, which I find is interesting where you say, oh, it was just perfect timing. Things worked out. You have this ability to look at your circumstances,

focus on the positive opportunities that seem to pop up for you and you make it sound like it's chance or this is what happened. I was lucky. You make your own luck. I was just, you could totally go in the opposite direction and say how unlucky you are and how terrible things were and you wouldn't be here. I have plenty of, plenty of things that trip me up over time. So yes, you know, because you think you got it figured out, right? I mean, I'm just carrying that a little further, you say 2008, again, kind of an important year. I was writing my story down and putting it online.

I mean, we finally had, it was before Facebook. So it was, we had my, I had my space. And I had, space and I had And then we were able to develop a website in house my nephew was tech savvy enough to do it. So we we had a little Davis-Killer bread website and We had a lot of fun with it like we always had fun with things in those days but These were things that were you know slowly slowly but surely happening, but I was writing my story down. And people were like, everybody, okay, originally on the back of the bag,

the common sense thing was to me was I had to tell people who I am, because my brother, you ask how it became Dave's killer bread. My brother wanted to call my bread Dave's bread, which was really a dumb move on his part. Because he didn't know how much he's like, well Dave so humble, he won't go to his head. Little did he. Yeah, he didn't think that, I believe he.

But so anyway, and the whole idea was that we talked to this copyright attorney and he was like, because we knew we had a good product, people were responding very well. And the copyright attorney says, you know, he's a great product, I love your product, but you gotta come up with some packaging stuff. You gotta come up with some packaging stuff.

You gotta come up with a logo. And here I am, it's always this challenge. I could be defeated. I gotta go find somebody to do this. Stan, I just did it, right? The guy, I'm sitting across from him, I'm drawing up this idea. And I draw this big guy, well, it wasn't even big,

but bigger than me. And it just, I mean, it wasn't even big, you know, but bigger, bigger than me. And you just, I mean, it wasn't about how big he was really. It was just, I was trying to be kind of not me, but me, you know, and drawing this guy with his guitar, with his guitar, the guitar went up through the V and it still does in the logo, but then somebody comes along with a can of Red's Break paint and tags killer on top of it. And no, you would never get that from looking at the logo now because that's what it ended up happening. But my original idea was that, and then also the story, God, I can't give me the shut up, yeah.

That's story. That's perfect, you want to mark that? I know. You got the idea, bro. You guys are so good at dodging. So I've watched plenty of your stuff. I appreciate it. Yeah, and I've learned quite a few things.

But I knew if we're gonna have Dave's bread, we're gonna have to tell people who this guy Dave is right? Oh there you are. Yeah, that's a really clever way to do that though with the whole spray paint idea like that That's really clever. Yeah, it looks a lot. I mean, that's the office to you man someday. Yeah, yeah Where's a stash though? Yeah, funny though. I got that good stories about this. I'm gonna say okay one important part is I had to put my my story on the back. It's not the same story you see now because now it's diluted and you know, it isn't really about me anymore. So, um, but the original story was I was a four-time loser before I realized I was in the wrong game. And that's what started it.

And then I just talk about my transformation in prison and how I ended up making bread. And people loved it so much that they wanted me to, you know, do all these things like, they wanted me to speak to all these different groups. So I started doing the Rotary Club circuit in 2009. Did every Rotary club because they all, once you knew one, you gotta do them all. And then, but it was, it's just exposure, and exposure, and exposure,

and it just promoted the bread, it promoted a good idea, a good, you know, good community vibe. And then all the employees that I hired, they were ex-falents, and all that stuff was natural. It wasn't like, it was still like, it was through this marketing move. No, it wasn't like that. It was like, make sense.

These are some good guys. Some of these are some good people. You gotta pick the right one. How could you have imagined going through that period before, obviously the success here? How could you imagine that I was getting you ready for this? You know what I mean?

You're going through shit. And and the whole time obviously looking back, you're like, that was getting me ready to do this. Yeah. In fact, we talked about the dreams in prison stuff. I used to have nightmares where I'd wake up sweating and just go, wow, I'm okay. I'm going to get out. I got like five more years, but At least I still have a chance because in the in the dreams I like killed somebody, you know Which I've never done by the way. That's just a rumor Right. Yeah, your bread says killer on it. Oh my god I do it for people. Yeah, there's a wonder bread people

your bread says killer on it. Oh my God. You're in some people. Yeah. It's a wonder bread people. And so it's I got so many funny stories about that. But, uh, yeah, what was that? I want to hear. I want to hear about because you just went over it real quick, but this is one of the coolest parts of the story is that, um, you're people you employ.

So we're mic down just a little bit too, that way. Yeah. So, yeah. So tell me about, well, okay, first of all, let's talk about in 0809, this thing really starts taking off. You obviously are scaling up because you're probably getting into a bigger facility.

And now you're probably having to take on employees or hire a bunch of people. What gives you your idea to go the direction you go? And like, how does that play out? Tell me. Okay. You're talking about maybe the direction of hiring excellence. Yes.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, that was natural for me because of my experience, my own personal experience, having seen the transformation that took place in me, I wanted to be a part of other people's transformation and also be benefited from a business perspective by those guys, by those people, because they can be some amazing, amazing people, they're grateful,

they're once the transformation begins, the humility and the gratitude and gratefulness, all the different aspects of life when they become positive people and they're making a difference in their community because instead of being a bad poll on society, they are a push for better things to happen. But I just knew that I had to pass this on. It's not like so, without really going, and I wouldn't write a book about it at that point.

But I remember when we were like 30 employees, right? And then it comes along and we need to hire within several months, we had to hire another 70 or 80. So we're using 10 agencies to do this because they do some of the homework and so forth. And if they didn't work out, they're gone. But what was funny is once they realized we were hiring, we were willing to hire a felon, the 10-day agency sent over nothing but felon and that was never what I wanted to do. Well, yeah, because most places don't.

They won't hire a felon. Yeah, so they thought, wow, this has been an answer for our felon, who are make up a lot of the list of people that need work. So were you the guy who sat down and got to interview each of these phones? Because I would imagine you probably have the best pulse on if this guy's really reformed or not. I couldn't see by at this point, I couldn't, I could only try to instill the philosophy and the mentality that we're looking for.

But they were just sending those guys over. And I was like, once I realized they were doing that, I said, you can't do this, I want to pick the best person. I don't care if they're felons, I don't care what. I just want the best person. And to me, again, it's that accountability thing. It's always, it's not a buzz phrase, it's not political. I hate politics.

So I wasn't even aware of politics until the last few years and it drives me nuts. So I was happy when I was blissfully ignorant and just cause driven. So I just had with these guys and we just hired and they were very successful, you know, not all of them, some of them were big jackasses, but you get that no matter what.

When you're hiring that many people so fast. I bet you they, well two things. One, you said something about them being very hard workers because they have another chance, another opportunity. I have experience with that, managing gyms, and it's true when somebody feels like you've given them a chance and they're honest about it and they really appreciate it, you'll find nobody that's more loyal and hardworking.

So I'm glad you said that, because I do think that that's an important thing for people to hear. But I also imagine that they probably looked up to you because you were like them, but now you're successful. You're the boss. Yeah, and my job was to maintain humility and to maintain being the person who got to this point. And but better if possible. So you know that was always a struggle and you know

I mean I used to have parties but I was drinking by this time you know. Drinking like a fish. Not really. I mean, I would drink a lot when I drank, but I wasn't really like, I ended up getting a lot worse. And I would have people over in my place, I had a pool and we had a lot of fun, but all the guys that worked for me, and it was that, we were like that. I wasn't a good example at that point

when it comes to drinking. that we were like that. I wasn't a good example at that point when it comes to drinking. But it was a lot of fun and I was no better or worse than any of these guys. That was what the deal was. And it was many years before I actually had enough money for a down payment for my house, down payment for my house, that house. So, but then when I started making money, it started really happening. Costco as well, that's the big, big moment. Yeah, well, I wanted to talk to you about that in terms of that big shift of like,

now of a sudden you're successful. And, you know, and obviously you have financial means to like, how did that look in terms of like, how did you adjust and was that a really hard transition for you? Excellent question and complicated. I really was successful before James Kelly Bradet ever happened.

So this was the thing that you need. Oh, I see. This was the thing that you need to change. Once I was able to get successful in my mind, which wasn't necessarily, okay, I'm going to be rich, I'm going to drive this car, whatever. It wasn't that. To me, success was purpose and real purpose,

and understanding how I can be meaningful and how I can have meaningful life. Once I realized that, I was successful. The challenge after that, working as hard as I was toward a goal of just constantly getting more bread and people's mouths. Once I realized, okay, once I got that goal, you never get to the end of that, right? You're always working towards something and I loved the process. Again, it's the process and learning to appreciate that how you get there makes it cool

because you never have to arrive. You're already there. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like when you guys were skinny guys, at one point probably, you know. Not just, but you've all just some was fat. I was fat. I was like, okay. But you're always arriving somewhere.

But in the meantime, you know, to another level. But you're always, but you have to be accepting that this is where I'm at now. That's where I am at right now, like, like, dance right now, but I'm way better than I was three months ago. So I just got accepted, I'm on my way. Yeah, you're not doing too bad.

So the wave of success comes in, you didn't go run out by yourself a Lambo, you just have a bunch of, you know. And that's called high-sighting, we call it, you know, in prison we used to call it high-sighting, when call it, you know, and prison leaves you call it high-sighting. When you live above your means, and you show off, and you still actually learn some of this in prison. I did, okay.

Yeah, because the guys who had a little bit more going on understood that, you know, paper tiger kind of thing. And so guys would get out, guys I knew, they'd come to work for me and stuff and they were hard workers and everything, but they always, so many of them had a high-site mentality. I gotta have this car. Well, no, you're not gonna have that car right now.

You're not gonna have that girl right now. You know, and if you do, she'll ruin your life. So, uh, that humility was what's missing in so many of these guys, humility and, you know, just being, uh, not being, um, not having to have it right now. Well, that's, that's crazy when you think, okay, so I mean, we're just kind of flying over this, but that's such an important piece that you piece that together while in prison because I've seen people forget your background, I've seen athletes and people that have a huge rise in success financially and they just don't know how to manage their money because they get so excited because they had nothing and now they have so much and they go out and blow it so. They don't have that. It's probably so good that you

went through that because who knows how you would have handled it? Had you not had that? Well, to put it, I wouldn't have gotten there without that. Yeah, right, right. Well, even to take it even further, you now have the means to buy whatever drug you want. You have the means to,

you know, to do abuse yourself in ways that you couldn't do before. And this is a challenge that a lot of people run into. Alcohol was my problem. This time before it was always something else but alcohol was illegal and so forth it was like a step above it's not illegal but still cause problems right? yeah it's still a bad thing for me you know I don't get to have to I don't get to drink a few drinks that's not how it works for me so So, like everybody else has a little fun, that's fine. You know, and I can hang out with people that are drinking, it's not a problem. But I have to avoid it. I have this thing, it's, I'm going to write a song about it's called The Power of Know. And it's just, you just say, no,

every time. Nancy Reagan said it best. So, but anyway, I just love, you know, not drinking. But I was so bad that I was sick, you know. But I also got into trouble drinking. And because I have a mental issue, I didn't realize that if I'm not balanced and the wrong kinds of things are happening in my life, the wrong stressors and such, I can go crazy, I can go nuts, I can be manic, it's been a long time. But because of that, you know the story, right, 2013, the cops, I ran into three cop cars in one sitting. Whoa, wait, wait, wait hold on what have you literally ran into?

Yeah, but I mean the story is so weird It's hard to know what really happened, but I was just trying to go home. I wasn't drinking but I had a mental breakdown and It was a bad time to have a mental breakdown right there with all those coughs around me. So I'm still, it's 2013, I'm still on mental observation from the state. And it keeps me from doing certain things. Did you, did you, I mean, did you develop a spiritual practice as a result of this? Did that end up moving you in that direction? Because it seemed, I mean, it's a radical shift. It's incredible to

hear. To me, it's spiritual, but spiritual to me doesn't require any kind of training and scriptures or training and belief that there's a certain thing. It's more for me it's higher power. There's obviously something going on, you know, but because that humility again kind of comes in handy because it always tells me, well you're not an atheist and you're not really an agnostic because you're really a believer. You just don't know what it is you're believing. It's just that everybody's got an idea of what or who or how God is. Mine is mine and it's very, it's vague enough to where I can't, I can't explain it, but I can definitely say that I believe in it and it makes a difference in my life.

Yeah, that's amazing. And so now how's the business doing? They're making my bread, it's not even my bread anymore. And Canada and Mexico, I don't know, I can't keep up with the whole story, whether it's good or not. I never don't see your bread. It's always everywhere I go, I see it.

We remember, I mean, I can tell you, in the old days, my wife now, but she was my girlfriend, then we used to go from store to store to store to store to store to store because nobody would take care of the breath. Nobody was like, what? Especially up in Seattle. First got up there, these Fred Meyer, you guys don't know what Fred Meyer is,

but Fred Meyer's store guys will know it's Fred Meyer, but Fred Meyer's story, kind of nutrition center, these managers would not, they had one nothing to do with it. They're like, we're not touching this stuff. Nobody cares about this crap. I'll be walking in here and that, you know, literally. I'm already, I'm knowing that we're in a new area, but the point is, there was a lot of struggles I the struggles of a business, you know, I don't know if I had been ready for some of those struggles without the struggles I had before you know those things that led to everything it's one thing after another it's not perfectly linear didn't happen

Just the way it should have in every instance But everything that happened before matters. Do you remember how much revenue the business was doing when you first got involved and then where it was at its peak? And then you also mentioned, it's no longer your bread, so I'm assuming you sold. So do you remember those? It was about my brother who had built the business

as a trader Joe, basically a trader Joe's supplier. But he also had his own brands that weren't really doing all that great. There were, you know, France, some of the bigger companies were really just smashing them down. So it was like, I don't want to give a number because I don't know, I can't remember the number anymore, but it's in the one to two million dollar. Okay, that's approximately that's about where it was. Yeah, and then when we sold it, we sold the first part. I sold my brother sold completely out. My nephew and I sold half of our interest and

or something like that at the time that was we each got like four million or something like that at the time that was, we each got like four million or something after taxes. And then it was like, then we were still part of the company, but less and less control. And I was seeing things change and it was getting really, it was getting tough for me because it was personal. But we, the second time we sold with the private equity who is half-owners of the business We sold for 275 million. Holy shit. Yeah. Wow. When you saw that much money We like I

Never when I saw that we were gonna sell for two-study Well, you know, he was like a huge relief because at this point I knew it was successful, but I didn't know. But I was afraid. I was actually feeling, you know, you guys, no business, swat, the swat, where you go, the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. I could see all of them, you know what I mean?

And the threats were, threats were one, you couldn't see what the threats were. You just knew they were there. There's lots of things going, a lot of workings. And that's what I was worried about. But once it went, once we sold it, I'm like, okay, it's off my chest. But it also was sucky for if you love what you do. Yeah, I was just gonna say. Maybe, yeah. Yeah, did you end up replacing it with something else so that you could continue to have that purpose or that date of day?

Yeah, I suggest anybody who's listening to this wants to know what I do now, go to my Instagram or go to my davedaw360.com and it's not updated right now, but my Instagram shows what I do now, which is this crazy another crazy thing. I Collect African masks. Oh That come from well, it's again, I'm sort of an artist, right, but not I would I don't make a living as an artist You know, I you apply art. I apply science to what I did in the artist, right? But not, I don't make a living as an artist. You know, I apply art and I apply science to what I did in the bakery, right?

But now, I just love art, I love stuff. It's like, but I get obsessed. It's like if I had gotten into doing cameras, you know, these would be really cool, right? I'd be like, those are part of my collection, you know, or whatever those are. But instead, when I made some money, when I actually was no longer in the business,

and I had to fill my time up, yeah. Oh, wow, that's cool. Yeah, those. Oh, interesting. And those are all antique African art Used in ceremonies and such hopefully you don't got four million dollars worth, right? You didn't buy four million dollars I've art did you I probably a lot more than More than four million seconds. Yeah, I just say the second time was a lot better than the first so my wife is like you know

You actually can go prox my wife is like, you know, you actually can go prox, though. What's that one celebrity? What's his name? He went bankrupt because he bought like a dinosaur egg and like a skull of a, you know, it's just like, what's his name? He was a national where he tried to steal a constitution. Oh yeah, Nichols Cage.

Nichols Cage, I remember reading that. Yeah, I know, well, this guy is, Nichols Cage. Nichols Cage, I remember reading that. Yeah, hold on this guy, but my- And nobody wants the egg, right? Yeah. That's awesome. So is this where, I mean, is this where you do spend your money? Are you into art like that?

And that's where if you were to say, okay, if I enjoy myself or enjoy my money, is that how you, I actually kind of expect you to roll in here with like the Rolex watch and some fancy gator shoes and maybe say that. That's what I was like. What shoes are not gonna hurt my-

I got this work on my, it's been there for like two years. I don't know. And it hurts every step I take. I take a put no gators on it, that thing. So I'm like, that's what matters to me right now. Not hurting. And so anyway, and I'm not fancy. Yeah, so what do you spend your, if you're gonna spend money, what do you spend money?, not hurting. And so anyway, and I'm not fancy.

Yeah, so what do you spend, if you're gonna spend money, where do you spend money? Obviously, on your art. On your art, you know, family cost money. You have kids? We have a lot of property. Okay, do you have any kids? I have two daughters, three granddaughters.

Oh, three for you. Yeah, wonderful. They've turned out great. I mean, how have that happened? Yeah. And then we got got my wife has four sons and it's hard to keep up with all the kids that are popping, you know, got another one on the way right now. Oh, congratulations. Are the properties investment properties or are they properties you travel to? Like, I mean, some are investment properties. Some are like like I have a penthouse right now.

I'm trying to get rid of it. It's like I lived in this penthouse for while I was split up with my wife. We weren't married yet, but I was kind of a bachelor for a couple years. I lived downtown in this penthouse. On the top floor, 27th floor of a building down there. And when we got married, she didn't bother to tell me a head time that she didn't want to live there anymore. She was kind of right, though. So what we're doing is we have this property, 27, it's 32 acres now, ranch farm on the river and always loved the land but now we got to build

the prop, build the house. So that's what, that's kind of another thing that I'm spending time and definitely mind out. You're going to build a gym in there? Oh yeah. And you're going to use some of your drafting skills? Maybe. So you use some of your drafting skills to actually draw it up?

No. I've actually, this is a dream of mine. It's actually your draw of my own house. Oh yeah. Yeah, because I actually liked our, well I would jump, this is a dream of mine. It's actually your draw of my own house. Yeah, yeah, because I actually liked our arcade. Well, I would jump, if I was you, I'd be all over learning CAD the way it is now, because the CAD is a lot less, a lot more user friendly, you know,

it's, there's a lot of things that are already drawn, you just pop them into place. And then you can modify them to wait, which is cool. Solid modeling is, well, when I left, back in early 2000s, solid modeling was the thing. Could you draw this can and I stretch it and make it bigger? Oh, I see. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. I'm telling you. And so they took all the front of it now because everybody's already done that. So the gym you're gonna make a sick gym.

I look at your gym and I was like, okay, I'll probably have a few more machines. Oh yeah. I love the size of it. No, this is all for filming. We didn't build our dream. If we could build our dream gym, it would be 10 times. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not, I'm definitely not down in the... Although you would, although you would appreciate these racks that we have in here, these racks are cool. They fold away completely, So they're really nice. Like squat racks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're really stable. So which would jump on them before we leave. Yeah. I'd like to see. No, I ain't doing the work. I didn't come ready to work out. But yeah, that's, that's cool. I will definitely have the dream, dream, Jim. Yeah, hell yeah.

And a dream place for my art to do it right. Because currently I have this long showroom in my warehouse that I built. That I had built. And if you see that place, you'd be like, wow. What the hell? Cause it's extreme. It's as extreme as it gets, as far as taking up space.

So what I want to do is take the best ones, move them around, move them around in the new play, always constantly be moving them around. Cause that's what I love to do. And make them a little less, less tight. If somebody's listening right now, if there's a kid listening right now who's maybe going down the wrong path,

do you have any messages for them? Stuff with the kids because, you know, kids they don't wanna listen. Yeah, because they're not gonna hear some of the stuff that I need to wanna tell them, which is, look, what? Get to want to hear about humility. Get to just want to hear about, you know, not getting what you want right now, but getting

it down the road. But that's, I've spoken to thousands of people, sometimes, a hundred here, a thousand, like, kids in a high school. The high school ones tend to be somewhat receptive. There's some of them. The ones that already have their head on their shoulders, they can just use a little inspiration. The ones that are on the struggling path, I hope I give them hope. You know, like, okay, this guy, because that's when I really pull out their boards. Because they need to hear, they need to know how bad things

were before they got good. And that if I can do it, you're not going to make killer bread, but you're going to do something. And you're going to find something meaningful in your life. And that's what I like to figure out ways to instill that in the kids. And so to that end, I actually created videos and stuff that I would show at my appearances.

I'd be cool to get a hold of those. Yeah, well they're right there. Cool. Going my YouTube page. Yeah, yeah, cool. I'd love to become your gym when you're done. Yeah. Come out there and do your own kind of film.

You promise. Are you kidding me? If somebody invites us to a cool gym, we're gonna be there. You guys gotta film it. We'll do the whole thing. We're this and Dave. Yeah. Oh man, that's great idea.

I love that guy. I would love that. Oh, it's 100%. You guys have become like a mainstay for me now. Since I found out who you were, starting, you know, because there's so much good information. You guys are, you just tell it like it is. I mean, you don't fight on the surprise.

We do, we do the cameras, we do the cameras, we still can't wait. We're just like any other, we're like any other business. You know, you said something though that's really interesting. We talk a lot about, you know, we've built this, there's three separate entities. We've built it in a way and structured it in a way that we may sell one day. And it's a conversation off air that we talk about,

well, maybe we want to spend more time with our families and less work and cash out, right? Or maybe sell part of it and still be a part, one of our biggest fears is, you know, would we be able to handle somebody having control and kind of telling us how things are going to be when it's our baby. We grew it, we raised it, scaled it to where it's at.

It depends on what your really all your goals are because it could be that you wanted that way and you just want to break in the money at that point. Or it could be that if you remember from my story, just remember the fact that you can be very regretful about selling and not doing it the way you should have. Another thing you said too is about you and your nephew, being at each other's throats, but you had the common goal. And I mean, we argue and fight all the time,

but the thing that trumps all that is the common goal. And so it doesn't matter. And that makes a big difference. Otherwise, yeah, the way the fighting is more important, but it's not. The goal, did you guys ever develop a vision and mission statement? 100%.

Okay, that's the other thing that's important that goes in line with what you said too, is the humility, right? So we're all in our 40s, and so we've gone through, we were in our 20s, not so humble, probably would have tore each other's faces off. Yeah, right. Before we're right now, everybody is,

we all understand that there is a common goal that so even when we're going back and forth, no one ever gets that mad at each other because it's not about them. It's not about me, it's not about you, it's about winning and we're both trying to win. And so we recognize that even the frustration that's going back and forth is with the same desired outcome

of winning and doing well. Well, it's way more mature than we were. We did, because we survived our own worst tendencies, I guess, as we were together, because of that vision and mission statement that we finally, we didn't know what the hell that meant. My dad didn't know what that meant. You know, all these years, nobody, well, vision, mission, there's that's voodoo. That's what my brother would say. And then I'd be like, but when we figured it out, we got some help actually to figure it out that we needed to backtrack and go get some foundation here or something that we can use as a blueprint in a sense so that we don't kill each other. Because we really were in bad shape.

We made it though. Well I love your story man. It's incredibly inspiring and it's empowering. I think more people need to hear stories like this, especially in today's climate, you know, to have that redemptive side of things like you can come back. There's too many victims. That's right. Too many victims. Too many victims. If you have a victim mentality, victim stance, you're not going to wear.

No. No, you might be able to get the government to give you something. But yeah, well, it's, it's, it's confusing empathy with being a victim. I can hear your story and say, man, it sucks. They went through some hard shit. But the truth is, the only person that can really change things is you. And so you... Once you realize that. Once you realize that.

And it's a really hard thing to do, because then you have to also accept that all the problems you had were also because of you. So you got to accept both and move forward. It's a real tough, so hearing you is inspiring because it's about as authentic as it gets. There's not a single word coming out that's not. It's just what it is. Yeah. I don't have to make up it. I don't have to remember any of my lies because I don't tell lies.

It's a good place to accept my wife. We'll cut that out, don't we? You want to get him in the middle of it? No, I'm sure that's funny. I think you'll think that's funny. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show, man. Thank you. Thanks for listening to our show.

That makes me really happy that you like our show. Well, it's a good show. Appreciate you, man. I wish you all the success. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy

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