Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1779: Training to Build Vs. Training to Maintain, How to Preserve Gains on Vacation, the Health Benefits of Donating Blood & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: March 26, 2022

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: You want BIG biceps, do heavy farmer walks. (3:33) The guys address the controversy surrounding the Liver King. (17:24) Max Lugavere is a freak of nature! (22:35) Mind Pump’s theory on hormone therapy for the next decade. (25:36) Shannon Richardson is an evil person. (35:09) Are psychopaths attracted to other psychopaths? (37:08) What Mind Pump is currently streaming on TV. (45:13) How the high-protein cereal market is exploding in large part due to Magic Spoon. (48:10) The guy’s favorite items from Vuori. (51:01) How fashion always comes back full circle and the importance of using training as a tool. (52:51) #ListenerLive question #1 - How much volume and intensity are required to maintain results? (1:02:51) #ListenerLive question #2 - What programming would you recommend leading into an extended vacation to preserve gains? (1:12:38) #ListenerLive question #3 - What are the health benefits of donating blood? (1:25:54) #ListenerLive question #4 - What is the right order to follow for MAPS workout programs? (1:31:18) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] March Promotion: Limited Time Power Bundle! MAPS Strong and MAPS Powerlift for the low price of $79.99 Add Size to Your Traps with Farmer Walks - Mind Pump TV Hidden Benefits of The Farmer's Walk - Mind Pump Podcast MP Hormones Mind Pump #1610: Testosterone… The Hormone That Divides Men & Women With Carole Hooven Mind Pump #1230: Surviving & Thriving In A Toxic World With Max Lugavere Texas woman in ricin case sentenced to 18 years in prison Woman Who Mailed Ricin Letters to Obama Sentenced to 18 Years Study: Psychopaths are attracted to other psychopaths Industrial Society and it's Future - by Theodore Kaczynski Raised by Wolves | HBO Max Originals Visit Magic Spoon for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Visit Vuori Clothing for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Hitmakers: The Science of Popularity in an Age of Distraction – Book by Derek Thompson Visit MASSZYMES by biOptimizers for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code “MINDPUMP10” at checkout** MAPS Aesthetic MAPS Fitness Performance Intuitive Nutrition Guide | MAPS Fitness Products MAPS Fitness Anabolic MAPS Suspension Training The Potential Benefits of Bloodletting. Yes, Bloodletting. The Ultimate Mind Pump Programming Order Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Robert Oberst (@robertoberst)  Instagram Liver King (@liverking)  Instagram Chris Duffin (@mad_scientist_duffin) on Instagram Layne Norton, Ph.D. (@biolayne)  Instagram James Smith (@jamessmithpt)  Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere)  Instagram Theo Von (@theovon)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we got people to call in live

and ask us their fitness questions. We got to coach them. By the way, if you want to be in an episode like this, just email your question to live at minemetia.com and don't forget to add why you think you deserve to be on the show. Now, we open the episode with an intro portions, we talk about current events and scientific studies and we talk about our sponsors. Today's intro is the first hour of this particular episode after that we got to the live question.

So here's what went down in today's show. We opened up by talking about the benefits of heavy farmer walks, great exercise. Then we talked about the liver king. This is a guy all over social media, everybody's talking about, does he have the secret to good health? Then I talked about my friend Max Lugavier,

one of our favorite mind pump guests. He's a wellness expert, author. He just did a blood test and the testosterone was through the roof. So we had our speculations there. Then we talked about Shannon Richardson. We talked about psychopaths and how they're attracted to other psychopaths, according to certain studies. We talked about a show called Raised By Wolves on HBO Max. We talk about how the high protein cereal market is exploding and this is being led by magic spoon. This is a company that we work with that makes high protein cereal grain free.

And by the way, the protein is way protein. And when I say high protein, I mean high protein, like 20 to 30 grams per small serving. So it's good stuff. If you're interested, go check them out. Head over to mind grams per small serving. So it's good stuff. If you're interested, go check them out. Head over to mindpumppartners.com. Click on Magic Spoon and then use the code Mind Pump for $5 off.

And then we talked about the new meta-pants, or I should have said they've had them for a while, but I just discovered them. Metapants from Viori, they look like slacks. You can wear them when you go out, but they're comfortable at leisure wear. Viori makes lots of at leisure wear stuff for men and for women, really, really nice stuff. Last a long time, this company's blowing up for a reason. And of course, we have a discount.

So if you wanna try out Viori, head over to mindpumppartners.com, click on Viori and you'll get the 20% off mindpump discount. Then we got to the question. So the first person we talked to was Sean from Maryland, wants to know how much volume and intensity is required to maintain results.

The next question was from Chris from Australia, wants to know how he should train leading into an extended vacation. The third question was from Marco from Ecuador, wanted to know if there were any benefits to donating blood. And the final question was Brian from Ecuador, wanted to know if there were any benefits to donating blood. And the final question was Brian from Minnesota, wanted to know what the right order was to follow for the Maps workout programs.

Also all month long, we've taken two very popular Maps workout programs and put them in a bundle. So we took Maps Strong, which is a strong man-inspired workout program. And we combined it with Maps Power Lift, which is a strong man-inspired workout program, and we combined it with Maps Power Lift, which is a power lifter program. Both programs, by the way, about three months long each, and we put them in the Maps Power Bundle. Now, normally, if you paid retail for this bundle, it would cost you $300. But right now, only for the month of March, you can get Maps Power Lift, Maps Strong, and

the Maps Power Bundle for $79.99. That's it, one-time payment. So if you're interested, you want to learn more or you just want to sign up, head over to MapsMarch.com. You want big biceps, do heavy, farmer walks. What? Yeah, I know. It's the one exercise that a lot of people,

actually it's not one, there's many exercise like this, right? A lot of people don't really know what it works, so they don't do it. But the value is not just for strengthening the whole body, the tension that it creates in the arms and the biceps and that isometric position, that full extent of position, your biceps will build.

That's what happened to me. It's a byproduct. Yes, that's interesting. You mentioned that because that's one of those, you don't anticipate something like that's going to happen as a result. But I've been doing farmer walks. That was like a consistent exercise that I would include.

And there's always between biceps, shoulders, and upper back. It totally developed. Crossfit kids loving you right now. Crossfit kids are loving you. And if they're in the farmer walks, of course they do. Yes. The Crossfit community. They do until they puke, probably. Of course they do. Do they? Yes. The Crossfit community. They do until they puke, probably.

No, they do, yeah, they do. They do, they do, they do, the former walks all the time. Well, so, so, carry, all kinds of different carry variations. Yeah, no, you know, I've, I've brought up gymnasts in the past and how like muscular divisives are from just pulling themselves up and all. And I've talked about how chinups are great bicep exercise as well. I actually had a lot of gymnasts reach out to me and say, Sal, one of the best,

extra things that we do that builds our biceps. I think I'm saying it right. Is it the iron cross? Where they hold themselves out with the rings? They said the tension that that creates in the biceps, just that full extension, you go, your arms grow every time you practice that. That's like one of the best bicep exercises I do.

And of course, I believe them because of the ones doing it. And again, similar experience with heavy farmer walks. Now of course you get bigger forums from holding on to heavy weight, but when do your biceps carry that much tension for that long? Yeah, in that end range kind of position too, which is I think probably a factor

that most people don't consider because bicep curls were always trying to contract in flex versus like being in that same amount of tension extended. Absolutely. I love this conversation because it also supports the argument that we always make about dead lifts too. Yes. Because we get all this pushback about dead lifts not being a back exercise.

And if you break down the movement, of course, it's a hip dominant movement, right? It's more glutes and hamstrings than it is back, right? But this is an example of the spine is being held in a rigid position, which is basically isometrically contracting all the back muscles. While you lift a pretty heavy load. Most people-

A load you wouldn't be able to row, or you would chin up with, or Most people, a load you wouldn't be able to row or would chin up with or get either extra. Most people are deadlifting more than they're doing any other back exercise. And so you are getting the isometric benefits from deadlifting in the back. And I think anybody who's been deadlifting for a long time and has seen this knows that

how much deadlifting in wax their back. A lot of people don't know this, okay. So I'm gonna go back a little bit and talk about isometrics. This is very applicable to what we're talking about. Isometrics was a very valued form of strength training for old-time strongman, old-strength athletes, and Soviet era weightlifters.

And by the way, Soviet Union, during the reign of the Soviet Union when they were existed, dominated weightlifting, dominated. And it wasn't because they had the best drugs, it wasn't because they were doing weird gene therapy, which a lot of people speculated back then, because the Iron Curtain, we knew very little what they did. It was their training. And we knew this because when the Iron Curtain fell down,

their coaches came to the US and went to other countries and everybody else started crushing as well. And one thing that they did, among other things, there's lots of things they did, but one of them was isometric training, so the value and isometric training. So here's something a lot of people don't know. When you're doing an exercise,

your body will recruit muscle fibers. As the exercise becomes more difficult, your body recruits more muscle fibers. So think of it like you have a V8 engine that has AI and it conserves gas when it needs to, but when it needs to, it uses all the cylinders, right? So when you're driving and you're going slow, maybe only two cylinders turn on, you push the gas a little faster, four, come on, then you go up to six and eight when you're really maxing out the car. This is what happens to your muscles as well. One type of muscle contraction

activates the most amount of muscle fibers compared to the others, and it's not concentric, which is curling up, and it's not eccentric, which would be lowering the weight down, it's isometric. When you're pushing against an immovable object or holding something that requires all of your muscles tension just to stabilize, your body will call upon all its muscle fibers to do so.

Yeah, well, because if you think about that in terms of curling something up, all you need is that initial push in terms of force production, and then it rides a lot on momentum, so you don't really need a consistent, really high force output throughout the entire movement. So if you are just pushing into something, and it's not moving, you're at your ultimate

high amount of force production that you have to sustain. Yeah. Your body's turning them on, on, on, on, and then it's still not moving, turn all the muscle for it. Now, what is that and why? Is that eradication? Is that what they call that where you radiation? You're radiation.

You're radiation when you're in it, isometric contraction. And it is because it's not moving. So then the body is going, oh, we're not moving this. So I have to recall all the troops. Right. All the troops.

By or if there is movement involved, the body's going, oh, I only need this much to do this. So that's all that work. Because we're always going for efficiency. Your body's very masterful at that. Yes. You know, in terms of like being able to produce just the amount that you need.

So it's like it doesn't exhaust the system. Yeah, and this is not to say there's no value in obviously concentric and eccentric attractions. Those should make up the core and the bulk. No, it's just to highlight how underrated that the isometric contraction is because nobody really, I mean, very few people you see utilize this technique.

Maybe every once in a while you see people doing things like pause quads or things like that in there, which is like a very small example of where you could utilize isometries, but rarely ever, one's the last time you went to the gym and saw somebody doing like a bunch of isometric exercises. You just don't see that very often. You don't. And again, strength athletes will use them because with strength sports, it's very objective. You either move more weight or you don't see that. You don't. And again, strength athletes will use them because with strength sports, it's very objective. You either move more weight or you don't.

And so the most effective techniques move forward and the ones that aren't so effective tend to fall to the fray. Bodybuilding took over for a while. And bodybuilding was about how the body looks. Now, do you want to say this? If you ask a bodybuilder about the workout routine and ask them if they incorporate isometrics, they'll say no.

But if you ask them this, do you focus on the squeeze? They'll say, oh yeah, oh yeah, I hold and squeeze a rep. Do you do a lot of posing in the off season or right before competition? Oh yeah, and you ask a body builder, how much posing they do, an hour a day before competition? I mean, you know this. And that's all isometric type training.

Now, they don't realize that it's training. And in fact, what they'll often say is, oh, it just sharpens the body up or allows me to control my muscles more. But what they're actually doing is they're actually incorporating another former training that's giving them great results. So and again, the challenge with a lot of these exercises is where do I place it in my routine? What's a farmer walk work? It works everything. How do you structure this? Yeah, I put on arm day Do I put on back day to have it? I really don't it doesn't matter. I'll tell you something right now

If you start an arm workout a leg workout or a back workout with heavy farmer walks do three sets Start with heavy farmer walks then go do the rest of your workout and tell me you don't notice a difference and how your muscles fiber, fire, excuse me, and how everything feels. The other thing, and by the way, I learned this doing farmer, so when we first created MAP strong, we did that with MAP, Robert Obersd, and he wanted of course strong man competitions require you to be able to carry on walk very heavy load.

So farmer walks are a part of the routine, and I worked up to 500 pound farmer walks with a trap bar. Very quickly, it's on my strength go out very quickly. And I was surprised how sore my biceps would get. From holding the... I was just gonna ask you, what's your guys' opinion on the comparison

of soreness from earlier? We know that if you do something like the sled, which is all concentric, you don't get very sore from that. We know if you really focus on the eccentric portion, you'll get really sore from it. Where would you rank isometrics in comparison to that? More or less than...

Depends, is it... Depends on what type of isometrics, because you're talking about loaded isometrics. More damaging. Yeah, because in your end range, and a lot of times it's unfamiliar territory, so most of the time I think when you get sore, it's just like your body's not quite as responsive or familiar with those types of movements.

So it kind of gives you that feedback more strongly. But in terms of just body weight, isometrics, very minimal soreness. Yeah, so it really depends, right? But yeah, pharma walks more damaging. I would consider that I can exercise flexing without resistance, very little damage. You could add that to any strength or any routine. And if anything, you'll just facilitate recovery. Pushing against an movable object, that could be pretty exhausting and damaging on the body.

So it just depends. And of course, the more damaging, the more the results tend to be, but it just depends how you program. I would say though, I mean, you do get pretty fried. I've done a full super intense isometric workout where the whole time I'm just at full capacity of how much force I can output. If you've ever done that, if you go too far,

you get a bit light-headed, like you have the breathing and all that, you really have to pay attention to, but the next day I was just taxed. Yep, yeah. So that does happen with the CNS. Well, I remember when I was a kid, we used to do, a member was lifting with these power lifters

for a while when I went on a little kick for like a year, I was hanging out with him at a buddy and He would he would take me and he did this with squats and I remember though vividly how how sore my chest was I was like man I had been training chest for years and I can't remember being the sore and he would take and this was back when I don't Even think I could do 225 on the bench and he put like 315 on the bar And then there would be like two spotters on the way and he make me me hold, just hold it. Hold that weight and try and press it up. Knowing that I can't get it, I can't do 225, we got three, 15 on there, come on guy.

But he would have me do that, and I would hold and drive for like a solid five to six seconds, and then they'd let me rack it, that would be a set, and go back and do it again. Oh man, I remember my chest being so sore from that, and we did the same thing with squat, he'd stack the bar with more weight than I could even do one rep

and then would just spot me and tell me to drive as if I was gonna be able to lift it. Yeah, that's so funny bringing that up. I was thinking about introducing that a bit to the high school kids I've been working with because I remember that being so effective of being able to actually feel the weight and acclimate to it, to challenge myself

than a little bit to press a little harder. Like I could handle it. I think there's so much psychology there. If you're not familiar with how your body could progress and could literally put that much weight up. It made a huge difference for me, because I remember as a kid, this was back when I couldn't even squat to 25 either and stacking

315 on my back. I'm just standing there. He just had me unwrap it. It's unwrap it and just kind of hold it, hold it, and stabilize there for a second, then walk it back up. I bet your core got sore, your core got sore. Yeah. And then like you said, Justin, you start to acclimate to holding that much weight and then before you, and I remember as thinking when I was doing that, I'll never be able to do this. Like this just feels like it's going to crush me and to think what I can squat today is like it's so weird how you do that.

I'll give you a little hack, a little homework out hack for advanced lifters. It's more an advanced way of using isometric. So here's what you do. You take some really sturdy hooks, metal hooks, and you bolt them into some concrete. Okay, so they got to be in a real secure so that you can't Rip them out then you get a chain a long chain and you get a bar that you can attach the chain to you can now do pretty much any Isometric, you know against an immovable force exercise that you want to do

All you do is you attach the chain each side side of the bar, hook the chain to the hooks, depending on the length, and now you can get underneath it and squat against something that won't move. You could put a bench under it, you could press under something that won't move, you could row under something that won't move, overhead press, curl, whatever, and you could do a jet, you could adjust the length, right?

So I could do a halfway up bench press, a full extension bench press, all the way down bench press, do this for all the exercises. And, you know, here's the thing a lot of people don't know too. If you look at the studies on proper isometric training, now there's a, it definitely plateaus after a certain period. However, the fastest striking gains of all forms of lifting come from isometrics very quick and a very short period of time. That being said, just isometric training you plateau very quickly. That's not the point though. The way you use it is you incorporate it into your normal routine. But it is one of those forgotten training methods and it's

crazy because you mess with them and you get blown away. Maybe we can make it popular again, huh? We will make it popular again. Absolutely. Speaking of classic, strongman and stuff, you know, on Twitter, I posted a picture of what I think to be one of the classic male physique ideals. Steve Reaves, you guys know Steve Reaves, picture we're standing there and he's like looking forward and he's not super shredded but he's lean, he's got good muscle and strength. The reason why I posted it is I said, this is before steroids were really popular, probably natural, most likely in the picture,

before supplements were around. The guy lifted weights three days a week, full body, dumbbells, barbells, and that's it, and that's what he looked like. And how do you eat? Whole natural, meat, liver, eggs, milk, potatoes, like that's it, and that's how we looked, and that was the ideal.

Reminding me right now of all the controversy right now around the liver king guy. You guys seen him, yeah? Dude, who is this guy? I get people sending me messages. I mean, yeah, I've only seen a video or two of his where he's like just super jacked. Yeah, we got asked about him like a few months ago.

I didn't even know. He's like, raw meat. Yeah, I didn't know who he delivered. I didn't know who he was back then. And I mean, the guy's got, I think he's like a hundred thousand followers or something like that. So he's, or maybe more, maybe he's close to him. I'm sorry, he's like a million, sorry. He's like up to a million followers now.

So he's definitely popular on Instagram. When they first asked about him, I didn't even know who he was. I had to look up his whole stick, right? He's this super jack. I think he's like five, four, five, six. He's like a pretty short dude, but he's like super ripped as all his videos with,

you know, shirt off, he's got the beard and, you know, and he's all his videos are him like biting into like raw meat. But I think there's a bunch of controversy around him because I think a lot of, I've heard that there's been people that were trying to emulate what he was doing and have had some issues. And I've now seen people like,

I saw Chris Duffin coming after him. I think I saw Lane going after him. I mean, there's quite a few people. And I always hesitate to talk about someone like this because I'm not sure if it does any help by discussing. And I know people always want to hear our opinion on stuff like this. But I also think that's what's gained this guy

so much of attention and why he's got almost a million followers is because you got people like Lane, like Chris Duffin, like these big names like James Smith. These guys are all big, they have big followers himself all talking about this guy and this guy's following just continues to grow. Nobody really wants to watch balanced, healthy people, right?

They want the extreme, yeah, like some kind of gimmick that they're, unfortunately the consumer drives those people up way, they inflate them up to a level where we're just like, why are they getting so much tension? Because it's like, it's a freak show. It's the opposite end of the spectrum. Over here, you have the raw vegans, everything uncooked, that's a plant. And over here you have now people who eat raw meat.

By the way, this is silliest thing ever, okay? Humans... We have fire for a reason, man. We started cooking with fire. It was one of the biggest advancements of all of human history. First off, cooking meat with fire predigests it, okay? It allows us to unlock more of its nutrients, its fats, its proteins, makes it safer.

It also does that to plants too, eating raw plants, not a great idea, cooking it, typically we'll destroy a lot of defense mechanisms, allow you to unlock more of the nutrients. Now the arguments are, this is how silly the arguments are. When you cook vegetables, you destroy 30% of its nutrients. Okay, that's true, but a rock is full of minerals. How much more can you use?

Yeah, you can't eat a rock, you can't eat 30% more when you actually cook the leaf. Yeah, easily. I can eat a bowl, I can eat a huge bowl of well cooked vegetables. You give me a whole bowl of raw vegetables and that is gonna tear me up. Same thing with meat, like we, like go bite into a rock,

like go get a cow, kill it, skin it, go bite into it and see how much meat you get with your mouth, like, good luck. What are the chances of salmonella, you know, some kind of bacteria, some kind of parasite, like there's just reasons why we've cooked meat.

Yeah, now certain organs and certain other foods, humans have historically eaten raw, like eggs, for example, you know, humans have eaten raw, because you caught it and you, you know, didn't cook it But for the most part like we cook food. So it's part of what makes this human. It's what makes us One of the reasons why we're able to grow the brains that we have and become these apex predators

We learn how to harness fire. So I kind of thought the popularity comes from like just like the politics, right? Like it there's extreme left extreme right and it's like the whole vegan movement is been on the rise for like the last decade I'd say more so than ever right and pull it aside even and I feel like this is like the revolt you know look at I'm not gonna do that I'm not a soy boy yeah I'm a cave man yeah exactly complete opposite right so I kind of feel like that's it's feeding into that and then of course you have to look, right? I mean, if you're on steroids and you're all turned up and you get the big crazy beard and stuff like that,

I think that it's just we're drawn to the character at that point. Yeah, just, it is funny, isn't it? The vegan representatives look very different than the carnivore representatives. I had to choose one to look like. I'm not saying one causes one and one causes the other. That's not what I'm trying to say.

I'm just saying that it's funny that the market, that's how they're represented in the market. Vegan's kind of like, if I say to you, picture a dude that's a raw vegan. Like you'd have a certain image in your mind. And if I said picture a dude that eats raw meat, is a different. I just think the human psychology around it's so interesting.

It is how we are we want to be in a camp so bad. It's like why not why not actually utilize some of the benefits of eating vegetables. Why not but use some of the benefits of organ meats and meat like combine it. Yeah, and this idea that people think that one was more for them than the other, it's just like, no, it's just, it doesn't work that way. And for the most part, I think we ate both of these things. And so it's hilarious how much we want to be in camp.

You're speaking to the health space. Did you guys see Max Lugus? So one of my, obviously one of my favorite people, one of my favorite people in the world, Max Lugus, I love the guy. I love how much he does his hair when he comes to CS. He doesn't. It's just, it's just messy. He hair when he comes to see us he doesn't

Just mess his cancer did he doesn't even look like he's so good on camera. He's just ham right? I fucking love Max So I could say this stuff, but he looks like he didn't even fucking run his hands through his hair No, like he didn't even like he rolled out of bed like this and and his hair is pressed like this He sits up. He brushes his teeth in the morning. And he thinks now I can fuck You always I think you always get bad when people have hair. Yeah. A little bit of jealousy.

A little bit of jealousy. And I'm like, you have hair, comb it, God damn it. You should appreciate that shit. No, so back, no, Max is great. He's such a great guy. I love him, pure heart, super, super nice guy, very smart, obviously.

But anyway, he posted his blood results. He did a blood test and posted his cholesterol, HDL LDL, testosterone. Testosterone. Testosterone. Okay, can we take guesses? So not free, but total. So total testosterone.

Now, remember the range for men, but depending on the lab is usually between 300 to like 1200 for men in testosterone. So 1200 is like upper, upper limit, 300 is like, that's super low. 490's my guess. Okay, so a little normal. What do you think?

I'll say like 500. 500. You're gonna throw it 10. Yeah, you know, just like 10 more. Right? Yeah, $1. $1. $1.

Jesus. Done. Any guesses though? I'll give him 781. 781. 1100. And he guesses though. I'll give him $7.81. $7.81. $11.00. Whoa! Wow.

He has, he's in the shame on me. He's in the super testosterone. Him and Doug together, man, they're both like super testosterone. Yeah, he's carrying some boulders around. Hell, hi dude. Now he's a very healthy guy. He's never met with me. Which is why I probably should have guessed higher because I do know he's a very healthy guy. He's never. Which is why I probably should have guessed higher

because I do know he's a very healthy dude, but he he doesn't come off like he's got. Like I feel like people with really high testosterone will come off that way. Like you know, Doug has that angry chimps. I do him that we've all seen. Maybe it's like you know the testosterone's flowing in that guy.

I'm saying like, okay, I see it. Where I just maxed this. It looked like you with the hair things like the no fuck's given, right? He's just sure, dude, I own this. Well, he's first, first of all, first of all, max is very assertive. He's a very nice guy, but he is not weak.

I've seen him assertive. He's very confident. Yeah, he's very assertive. Like he's a very nice guy, but if you push him the wrong way, he's not one to fold or what. Well, he's intelligent, he's confident. Driven, very driven, right? Right, right, books.

Well, those are all associated with testosterone. Very calm, right? He's confident. Driven. Yeah. Very driven. Right. Right. Books. Oh, those are all associated with testosterone. Very calm. Right. He's not an anxious person. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, super high testosterone. Wow. Because he talks all the time about, you know, estrogen's and he's pretty on top of like, you know, voiding a lot of things. Now I'm really jealous. Hair and natural high testosterone. The hell. That is lame. Now, and you know, he's never messed with hormones.

He never took, remember that the pro hormone craze. Yeah. I fell for and most people, he didn't take steroids., and you know, he's never messed with hormones. He never took, remember that the pro hormone craze? Yeah. I fell for and most people, he didn't take steroids. He, you know, he's very healthy. So it makes sense that it's testosterone would get high. So good for you, Max. What's your, what's your theory on hormone therapy in the next decade?

If you explode. Yeah. Yeah, that's gonna matter. I mean, I feel like sometimes I always wonder again, are we in this little bubble, you know, and it's like, because it's obviously in our space, it's becoming more and more popular, but is it gonna be so big that like even people

that are not hardcore into working out are gonna consider taking hormone replacement therapy because when the down slowly decline, when the risks are low, taking testosterone in therapeutic doses, the health risks or whatever risks associated with it are very low. testosterone is very safe. You can take, if you took, you know, 10 times the normal dose, now you're starting to run into problems. I'm talking about therapeutic doses. The risk is low. It's a for men especially. It's a feel good hormone. You take a man whose testosterone

is on the lower end of the spectrum and you bring it to the upper end of the spectrum, though almost always just feel better. So it feels good, it's like an antidepressant. The major hurdle I see is the expense because the super rich and famous have been onto this for decades. I mean, like your actors and actresses

that make a ton of money, they've been on growth hormone and testosterone. No, man, every time any iPhone comes out, everybody goes and buys that thing and pays hundreds of bucks on their cell surface. I think when the, when it has been accessible to that point is like it has been just exclusively prescribed by doctors that were outside the, the frame. It has a stigma. Yeah. And also has a stigma. I like, I felt for the stigma. When I test came back with low testosterone, I felt embarrassed and I take testosterone. That's a, you know, and my less of a man type of deal,

these are thoughts that guys have. Once the stigma's gone and it's accepted and, you know, especially therapeutic doses, I think everybody, I think it's so popular. Cause it just, it feels good. Your health is better. Your health markers are better. Quality of life is higher.

Like, I just wanna be pretty. Well, I mean technically, I think you're healthier if you're someone like Doug where you don't naturally have to take advantage. Oh yeah, I don't compare it to natural, yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you could be freaking, what was he last time, 1,300 or something, if you could be that high and what were you, 11?

Not that high, like, 10, 80 or something. 10, 80, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's it. I wish it was 1,300, but it's not. I'm working that journey. I don't think you need any more, dude. I think you're just fine. I think that years old. 18 years. Oh, okay. I wish it was 1300, but it's not. I'm working that journey. I don't think you need any more, dude. I think you're just fine.

I think that's okay. But I mean, if you, again, if you have achieved that through good habits and behaviors, I'm sorry, obviously way better than somebody who's taking the HRT. Absolutely. Yeah, no, it's just the stigma's a big thing. I think once the stigma's kind of erased or changed,

I think a lot of guys, especially because the testosterone levels are going down and it's an epidemic and we don't know why. Really don't know why. It's really, I'm not just making this up, you can look this up if you want, but for the last four or five decades, this is not a recent thing.

We've been observing this for a while. Well, you brought up the pornography thing the other day, and what I think it is, I just think it's, it's a combination of things. It's so many different things. But there's definitely something environmental that's contributing to it. Sure. You know, astrogens, you know, I think it's just, that's just it. And you know, if you

tease that one thing out, because you'll have people on the other, the science community that will like laugh at that, like, oh, come on, your receipts aren't declining. You know, you touching your receipts or cooking in a certain pan every once in a while is not making your testosterone drop 400 points. But if you, you can buy that last. Touching your receipts or cooking in a certain pad every once in a while is not making your test-oshrone drop 400 points, but if you you can buy that Lack of activity. Yeah, lack of activity. Don't strengthen. You also, you know You should if you how many studies out there that are gonna test a long enough period of time where that low of a Dose of like you know, Zina esters were actually making a fact like they just won't conduct that. Now you want to hear another piece of this little theory.

I've brought this up a long time on the show, so it's been a while, so studies will show this. Women, when they're on birth control, so they'll do these studies where they'll take up man's face and they'll masculinize it digitally or they'll feminize it. So same face, and if they feminize it, they make a little softer, less of a jawline, less brow ridge, like there's a few things they do and then they'll mask it and they'll mask it so they'll take the same face, more jawline, a little bit more,

you know, brow ridge. So basically, higher signs of testosterone, lower signs of testosterone, same face. And they'll show women these pictures. When women are ovulating, they consistently pick the higher testosterone face. When they're not, they'll pick the neutral face or the lower testosterone face. When they're on birth control, lower testosterone face constantly. Okay. Now, birth control has been widely used now for decades. It, what if women now are selecting without realizing it, slowly selecting lower testosterone mates to have children with. And this is part of

the fact. Totally totally believe that. I mean, I even feel that about the conversations that you would have. Think of, go back to junior high high school and the kind of alpha dude that everybody, the girls liked when you were a kid and stuff like that. Like, that changed over the course of the next 20 years. It turned more into a metro-sexual type of like sensitive guy

who's Bill Gates. Did you? He's the hot one. Stop. Nobody's saying Bill Gates is hot, dude. I don't know. What circles do you run in? It's pretty rich, I don't know.

You know what though? Hey, this is so money. This is also a trip. Look at this up. Women who meet a man and get married while they're on birth control. So they're on birth control. They meet a guy phone love, get married on birth control. Then they're like, hey, let's have a baby. They're on birth control. So they're on birth control, they meet a guy, phone, love, get married on birth control.

Then they're like, hey, let's have a baby. They go off birth control. The divorce rate goes up a little bit. So it's like, I feel like that's such a hot... How shitty would that be? That's such a correlation thing. They're not causation. No, really?

Even if they don't have kids. If they just go off birth control, there's a rise in divorce in statistics. Now, how shitty is that? You're attracted to someone. And then your hormones change, all the same. You're like, oh, he's not that hot anymore. So, okay, so a girl gets off a birth control,

starts like looking at other men is more desirable, more attractive. Or the husband that she's with is no longer attractive like he was before. I see. Fucked up. Yeah. I feel like that's a really hard one to come under because of all the variables

No, I don't agree, but I think it's like saying that When you put the giants win every time there's thunder and lightning and Idaho Yeah, you know every time there's thunder like it would they call it an asperious correlation? Yeah, yeah No, I hear what you're saying, but when you combine that with the other studies I think it does point to look here's a deal hormones Drive well that's to an extent a behaviors. I studies, I think it does point to, look, here's a deal, hormones, drive, that's a two-in-extensive. Well, behaviors. I mean, I did see that study where they showed

how they're more prone to the jaw line, the more masculine-lowest face during ovulation. I mean, it makes perfect sense. I mean, like, evolutionary, you always bring it back to that, right? Of like, who's gonna stick around versus, you know, the other guy that's like sort of you want the strong jeans yeah you want the strong jeans but then you also want

the nurture on top of that. Dude they hear nobody wants. Hey, just me. Hey, you know how messed up that is. You just tag it is high five you're in pal. You know what they theorize they theorize that I don't know if this is true or not but thousands of years ago before you had paternal tests or whatever That the girl that the female would mate with the fucking testosterone dude

And then when she's pregnant it go and hook up with the dude that's gonna stick around and he thinks that's his kid So he ends up raising the freaking testosterone dudes kid. Where did you read what you said? This was part of the theory like part of what may have happened in the past, that there were a lot of, not all the time, but that's happened much more than people realized where women had got pregnant from one man, but the child was raised by a father who didn't know that it wasn't theirs. Well, it's interesting. I remember all those, they're talking about like gladiators and like how, you know, a lot of women would like throw themselves at these gladiators. Oh. You know, they used to sell their sweat. Oh, yeah.

You know that? Glad, yeah, at the call of a drink. No, like in bottles, like in women would buy it, like in a fidget. So these gladiators would squate their sweat off and sell them in bottles and chicks would buy. Really? Yeah, dude. I didn't know that was a day. That is very true.

Very true. So she said, I'd probably stunk. I'd be annoyed. Yeah. What do you, honey? We would find. So I mean, I feel like if shit like that was happening all the way back then, we can't make fun of like the whole like vagina candle or all those weird things. that is very trippy. Especially since they're probably stunk. I'd be annoyed. What do you, honey? We're fine. I mean, I feel like if shit like that was happening all the way back then, we can't make fun of like the whole

like vagina candle or all those weird things. Come on, bro. It's all, we're all, human behavior doesn't change. Just our technology is. Oh, there's all kinds of weird stuff. Yeah, it's all, it's all, it's all, it do a dishandle. Those are far jars, right? It's still happening. Nobody wants to buy a dick. That's not, this is sound appealing at all. Hey, you can sell weird stuff. There's gotta be somebody who thinks that's appealing. No, guys, guys. Let's be honest, okay? Men are weird.

We're the weirdo's, dude. We're the ones that are weird, bro. Come on. You wait, look at, you wait. Do you think even gay guys like Dick Smell, I feel like they don't even like it? They're still guys, dude. They're still gonna be, we're the weird ones. Dude, listen.

When you go to, I feel like Justin would know the answer. Yeah, that's the best. Listen, listen, they have vending machines. And they have vending machines. Listen, Doug's notes, that's why I brought it up. Doug's shaking. Doug's like, make sure to talk about this. Does it have a smell? I guess it does. They have vending machines in some parts of the world.

I think Japan has these. No, Doug told us about that. Yeah, where they're like, they're, they're earning underwear. It's gotta be the four girls' war. And dudes will buy the underwear, okay? You, there's, where they're ever vending machines with guys underwear.

Never seen them. Yeah. I mean, I didn't see the women either, but I've heard about it. And I was like, what was the other thing? Guys have to wear some of the barge, or any big girls. Girls have to be girls.

Tiny lighting, not so light. So gross. Disgust really wants that. No, I'm not saying that dude. All right, we're gonna change. Yes, please change this up. Let's change this up. Let's all change this up. Doug, you should have put in your notes and I would have brought it up. Anyway, it's pretty change. Yes, please change this out. Let's change it. Let's all change something.

Doug, you should have put in your notes and I would have brought it up. Anyway, don't worry. You get a crazy people though. I found this out. God, what's their name? I can't read up there, but there's a... Shannon Richard, thank you.

Shannon Richardson. She's an actress that was in walking dead and I guess vampire diaries, whatever. Do you, have you heard about her story? I guess she like just went completely batshit crazy and was making her own kind of powdered poison. What? Like, may not have some kind of like being, I don't know,

like, I don't even know how you make it. Risen, rice and? Risen, thank you. Oh. And, I don't know. How do you know that? Yeah, I was like, how do I? Because that's my own poison.

Because that's a CIA or intelligence agency poison. Well, they, a small amount and a dark and you get a heart attack or you die. That's, it's really crazy to me that you can actually make, I guess, my takeaway from it is that you can actually make that at your house. Like, that's crazy. And I think you can't, it's really,

like, it's actually gonna probably come up as beans, right? You die and they can't tell. I think you get't, it's really legal. It's gonna be a problem. It'll probably come up as beans, right? You die and they can't tell. I think you get a heart attack. You see, breaking bad. That was part of one of his episodes. Oh, was it? Was it what I used to? It's RICI and I do remember that now.

I do remember that. Can you look at how to make rice in? Yeah, it's lagged. It's made out of what, rice? Yeah, but what was she doing with it? So, like, she was actually, I I guess was trying to frame her husband. This is her third husband she was on. And she was like writing letters to like Obama and like lacing it.

What? And had it all addressed and everything. And then actually like called the FBI to say, oh, my husband has, you know, been doing this and is about to send these off. And literally she was the one like, about to send all these letters out. So she's obviously in jail. Yes, she's in jail.

So how did this all come out? Like, do you know how how it unfolded? I don't know, but like she just came out one day and like called the FBI and like tried to get, basically tried to frame her husband. Oh my gosh. I went to evil person. Yeah, like psycho, dude.

Yeah, do you know? No, we had the notes psychopaths like psychopaths. I feel like that's a perfect person. Yeah, like was psycho, dude. Yeah, do not know. No, we had the notes, psychopaths like psychopaths. I feel like that's a perfect transition. Yeah, no, that was an old study that I read. Did you guys know that they've done studies on psychopathic behavior and find that people that are most attractive, attracted to people with psychopathic behavior are also psychopaths themselves.

I feel like you didn't need a study for that. I know right Hey, guess what crazy people like crazy. Yeah Here's your sign you like murder to Never have a friend. I don't know man. I don't know man. I regret it. I date fucking crazy, bro Yeah, look at it. There's one common denominator I don't know man. Why are they finding their way to yeah? I mean, I feel like we're all guilty to some extent to that point.

I mean, how many people? Oh, you get attracted to the dysfunction and others that you have yourself. Of course, bro. If you're like, makes you feel comfortable. Oh, yes, you feel like home. Of course, like if you drink too much and then you find a girl,

oh, she likes to drink too. We're perfect match, you know? Yeah, it's totally true. I think it takes a lot of self-awareness to actually try and date or go after people you know that are gonna call you on your ship because nobody wants that but I mean that in reality That's probably what makes a better partnership if you're gonna do this thing called life with this other person for the rest of your life Like probably get somebody who's better I was just talking with Courtney about this while she's really in the whole murder stuff and

I was like like listen to podcast. I watch this. She's a lot of beans lately, too You know what I haven't even got that insurance. No red flags at all for me But yeah Yeah, I was like oh Versailles. No, you know, maybe I'm eating something poisonous. Yeah, so she was telling me like, I guess that they haven't really attributed any like, actual gene associated or correlated

with psychopathic behavior. Oh, really? It was very much more attributed to like trauma or like brain injury or, you know, the environment, environmental factors. Yeah, what's the problem? Myus, what I will assume is that there's a combination of the right genes

with the right trauma. So for sure, one without epigenetics, epigenetic, yeah, like some kind of one without the other. What's that? Well, what you once the gun, then the what loads the air and fires. Yeah, your your jeans load the gun. What you do pulls the trigger. Yeah. So the bullets are in there. You loads the smoke fires. Yeah, yeah, your jeans load the gun, what you do pulls the trigger.

Yeah. So the bullets are in there, you pull the trigger for heart disease, cancer, or whatever. So lifestyle makes the biggest difference. Yeah, I keep thinking the, like, after the whole, in the 70s where we had, like, this, like, surge of all these psychopaths and serial killers. I feel like that was just, I wonder what the numbers are of like,

if we're just more aware of them then, then we were previously, or, before we didn't even know, right? Yeah. Before we didn't have a name for them, I forgot what document. Well, Jack and Ripper was very well known serial killer. Yeah, I mean, there was a few, but it wasn't like,

there was, so, did they call him almost like a hundred or so, before the 70s, or was it after the 70s, because before the 70s, I don't even think they, the term came out. What did they call them? Mass, and then I had to have produced,

because you mean Ted Bundy. Well, so I've read articles on this, and the same thing with mass shooters, is that the more that these events happen and become popular through media, the more that they trigger. So like mimicking, yeah, so like you're a crazy person, you're kind of on the edge, you know,

and you can be pushed either way. And then you're watching news articles of serial killers. They think that that pushes these small percentage people over the edge, same thing with mass shooting. You'll notice there'll be a mass shooting and then there'll be like three or four more that'll happen because they watch the news, gets lots of airtime, and then they'll go and do the same.

Yeah, 1974, it was a popular. So I bet you they didn't even call Jack the Ripper a serial killer until after the set. It's called them Jack the Ripper. Right, it's way cooler. It's a real thing. Is it, is it the Unibomber? Was it Bundy who had the crazy manifesto?

Have you guys ever read his manifesto? It's like spot on to like wear red. Yeah, you know bomber. Is it you know bomber? Yeah, I think it was a if you had never read that before, you should take a zinski. Did you read the zodiac? Did you ever see how the zodiac killer?

They freaking finally deciphered his notes and what he wrote. You're about this? I watched the documentary. I don't know if they covered it. I don't remember what it said, but they cracked the code because you used the right in code and stuff. Send it to the newspapers

and they couldn't figure out what the hell was going on. And then recently somebody cracked the code and figured out. Recently? Yeah, I was like the last maybe five or 10 years, maybe Doug can find it where they figured out what he was saying. So it's kind of crazy. It is crazy. What is crazy about these crazy people is they want to be known, by the way.

They don't want, they part of the excitement is that other people talk about what they did. Well, there's they want to do that line of getting caught too, you know, like leaving enough bread bread crumbs out there so it's like you can you can get so far and so close like it. It's thrilling. Well, isn't there too like a is it in their correlation with psychopaths and like brilliance too? Like a lot of them are really intelligent. Oh, that's not like a lot of dummies that are running around. There's definitely a thinner line between super genius and then also just dysfunction, dysfunctional thinking and craziness.

Yeah, for sure. I don't know about that. I don't know about serial killers though. Yeah, very weird. I mean, I figure if you get away with multiple murders, you have to be pretty intelligent about your way of doing it right me I mean, just like randomly go kill while you actually You know, I don't know well know so that supposedly the the Here we're gonna talk about it. Get away with murder one of the best ways to get away with it is by being inconsistent about what you're doing

Oh, yeah, I think what is it 80 something percent of all murders is related or connected to the well So you doing like a super random, and some of that would just go in a parking lot and grab a random person. You guys are the hardest to find. You guys ever read about the Iceman, the hitman for the Mafia? That guy?

They call him the Iceman because he figured out this brilliant way of not getting caught. He killed somebody, freeze the body, keep it for six, seven months, defrost it, and then dump it somewhere. And they couldn't connect. They couldn't connect the time of murder. The way he got caught was he didn't fully defrost the and then dump it somewhere. And the time they couldn't connect the time of murder. The way he got caught was he didn't fully defrost the body,

dropped it off, they saw ice crystals in it and said, oh, these bodies are being frozen. And then they went back and connected them to the murder. Yeah, but that's what he did. He would freeze them and do that. Or he would drop them in a vile of acid and melt everything and really fucked up guy, dude. He was really awesome.

Anyway, speaking back to the poison, the ricin. I read about that because there was this other way of killing people that use these radioactive isotopes. There was this journalist, I think it was in Russia, either a journalist or a politician who suddenly started to slowly die and he couldn't figure out what was happening. Was it a door knob that they touched?

I've heard something about that. And you can't trace it. And the dude, like, they showed his face before and after, I don't know if that could find it. Really messed up shit, which led me down a rabbit hole of all this stuff. Yeah, there's levels, right? Like, in terms of the intelligence agencies, I'm like, oh my god, what kind of methods do they have to get rid of people?

Oh, that's wild. I wonder. There was like someone, like famously historical that was like, his wife was like just barely putting it in his breakfast every single. Was that, was there a story like that? Well, there's a lot of those. Those are called, what are the called? Well, Munchows and people with kids, but yeah, I guess. Which, I don't know if that applies.

What is that one? Well, it's four times in a month. Yeah, most part they want to of the, it's four times in a month. It's four times in a month. Yeah, most part they wanna keep the victim sick. Yeah, that's what I think the story was. I think that's what she wanted. She wanted him to be sick, but not kill him. Like she was giving a dose that was not enough to kill him,

but just to keep him that weird to that. So that's one of the very few places where more women do with the men when it comes to murder and it's that. And it's what the theory is that they'll slowly slowly poison you they don't want you to die but they want you to always be sick to depend on them. Yeah to be dependent because now they're always to have to care for you. Yeah dude and so there's moms I'll do that to kids and just keep them sick for years. Yeah super what was that in that was in uh uh six cents six cents. Yeah remember that was it six cents. Six cents, yeah. Remember that? That was in there. Yeah, I just recently watched that and scared the shit on my son.

I've watched it in a long time. Oh yeah, that's so good. Oh my god, such a good move. It's sad, dude. I forgot. Yeah, sad that move. Yeah, I was speaking of TV and stuff. You are watching now, raised by Wolves.

Yes, dude. Let's talk about this. I'm actually really enjoying it. Told you. I knew you'd love it. I knew it. It's super original. And and I just like I like there's not a lot of original shit out there that I haven't seen before especially in the science

science fiction kind of realm but it's I mean it starts off with the bang the very first episodes a really hard one to like hook and sell you on and they did a really good job like you know getting you all immersed in this environment and then crazy shit happens at the same time you're like wow it is crazy. Well they do a good job and HBO always crushes it right it's an HBO series. You go from thinking these AI robots are evil to thinking they're good to the humans are evil to their good and their god is faked, is their God real? And it just, you know, know what to think when one episode to the next. And it checks all the boxes for me,

because I love when science fiction can also explore religious undertones, and they can figure out like the whole spiritual side, alongside, you know, technology, and also like humanity trying to figure out how to deal with basically being obliterated by these AI robots. So all the sci-fi people. Did you hear Justin I talking about Marvel and stuff?

No, what's going on? Well, we were talking about series, right? How that's the new thing is to like Marvel, Star Wars, all that like can't wait for the Lord of the Rings one to come Well, no, you know what I and you've said this before that what you would love What would be something that to do a whole series on a character that you know? No, you said it before and you got all excited the Rocky and doing making okay, so You're gonna do making well, no listen, dude I've just said the table for you that there's a good chance that something that, so you're gonna do making? Well, no, listen, dude, I'm just,

I'm setting the table for you that there's a good chance that something that you said you would love to happen would probably go into happen because I shared, like I think it was a year ago, maybe longer when Amazon bought the, bought MGM for like $8 billion. Part of that strategy was all the feed, the prime video stuff.

So they have, and MGM owns the rights to Rocky among other like very famous popular series. Mickey story. And since that's so good, this is becoming the formula, right? Is to buy a franchise like this. And tell the story before the story. Yeah, and tell all the spin-offs. And it's because you already got to built in loyal audience and then maybe you attract a new one. Imagine 19.

They're going to do it. 19.30s. America, Irish immigrant, Mickey, poor, rough, fighting, the rules of boxing back then were crazy. Like the story of Mickey would be so freaking epic. Well, I'm calling that it's gonna happen. So it's almost free. I mean, if you look at all these other streaming services, the strategy that they're all doing is they're buying

these big franchises with the intent, I think, to make them all into spin-offs. Hey, speaking of business, I've been reading about the high protein serial market. So obviously, we work with blowing up. So obviously, we work with Magic Spoon and they're the high protein. By the way, high protein series of the best

have existed in the past. They sucked before. They're not really high protein. If you look at the bad, you're not in the ground. You're only in the protein. It just tastes awful. Not even, it's like seven grams of protein.

High protein cereal. No, it's not high protein. Magic spoon is really high protein. Like 27 grams for a small serving. So you're gonna get good protein. That market is exploding right now. And partially because I think Magic spoon showed the serial producers,

this is a market, people want this. So I'm reading articles about how the big serial producers now are looking at maybe moving into this market. Now I predict, do you guys think someone like Magic Spoon will get offers to buy them out? Well, some of these big producers. I mean, you saw it have an apprime-on-kitchen, like they got bought up by what craft or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know. It's potentially a possibility. I mean, they've obviously proven that there's demand there and it's a viable option. It's such a good and bad thing at the same time, right? You've got to be a little scared too. Like when you think about general meals and post and like these massive brands that have tons of resources and power, how hard do you really think it would be to reverse engineer what these proteins,

these proteins are real. They could, but you know why they sometimes buy it is because they're here. They have to easier. Yeah, and they have to win over the bill. It's just like what we just talked about with instead of redoing Rocky and writing, you buy the franchise so you have the rights

that you have the built-in audience. It's the same concept. It's like you buy magic spoon because it's already got millions of people that are bought into the brand and versus try, but I don't know with food. Plus when it comes to health food though, I'll say this, when it comes to health food, like look at magic spoon, a good percentage of their core consumers are fitness fanatics. People who want to build muscle, burn body fat, like who are interested in health and fitness and performance, if general meals came out with a high protein cereal,

they will be so skeptical. I would look at a general mills high protein cereal, I'd be like, right, Captain Crunch, high protein, no thanks. But Magispoon won me over. So if they bought Magispoon and left them alone, that would be, in my opinion, that would be the strategy, right? Yeah, it would be interesting to see what they did too. I mean, I would love to see it happen

just because it would get everybody to shut up that thinks it's like, like magic spoon is like getting over on everybody price wise. It's like if it even have a huge expensive. It's just expensive. Yeah. If you take something that, if you're gonna get a bowl of cereal, I have 30, 40 grams of protein.

I'm like way protein. Yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a lot more than, you know, lucky charms or an off brand of lucky charm. Corn wheat cereal. Yeah, so I mean, I would like to see it just for that reason alone to get everybody to understand that it's not the brand magic spoon that is just gouging people for prices. But their margins are probably the same or less than what the margins are

for someone who's making lucky charms or capping from. I would totally agree. Speaking of sponsors, I just got, you might have talked about these before, but I haven't got them until recently. The meta pants from Viori. Yeah, meta joggers? Oh, pants.

No, the pants. Yeah, they're like slacks, so they're stretchy. But some one of my favorites, the meta. You gotta get these slacks. So I could wear them out to dinner, button down shirt, look real nice. They're nice looking slacks,

but they're not slacks. They're freaking Viori, but they're not slacks, they're freaking veery, stretchy, comfortable material. Like you can wear them and work out them, but they literally look like nice, like, like yeah, like, again, I could wear a button now in a shirt and go to a nice restaurant and wear them, which I did, I did the other night.

Oh wow. Super, I had no idea. Get your squats in the morning and then you go out to dinner that night. The same pan. That's true. I have a pair of Nike golf slacks that are like that, that are sporty, you can dress them up,

dress them down like that. I wonder if they're like that. So is it kind of like that material that like, almost, like they look like slacks, like nice slacks. They don't look like workout pants. They look like again, you can do it with one. But they're not cotton, they're more this kind of like, they didn't really last. They last, last tisity to it. They're the last again, you can't do it. But they're not cotton, they're more of this kind of like,

they're last, last, last, Tissey to it. There's a last Tissey and super comfortable, like you're wearing, I don't even remember seeing those. It's a flea drawer. The other one is like, three of them, yeah, yeah, I love them.

Oh, I thought the ones that you wear most of the time are the, rip stop. No. Well, I do those, but my favorites the meta though, I'm with you. Yeah, do, oh,

so the meta joggers, so Sunday joggers were my first, like I was on a kick on that, have all the meta joggers, so Sunday joggers were my first, like, I was on a kick on that, have all the colors and that, and those are some of my favorite, but those are very, you know, sweatpantsie, you know, which is fine for what we do. But if I want to, you sweatpantsies. You sweatpants. But if I want to go, I want to go out, or if I want to wear like a polo shirt, the meta

joggers, that's why I like the meta joggers so much, is because they, I can put a polo shirt on with it, and it looks sharp, and I can put a t-shirt on it and I look, you know, sporting it. Hey, speaking of looks and all this stuff, so we're now at this age, okay, this is finally happening. Are you guys seeing, my daughter and my son now, sons at high school, daughters in junior high, and now I'm starting to see straight up, kids are dressing the way that we dressed when we were kids.

It's all come back now. Are you seeing this shit? Oh yeah, cool, cool. You see, you have mullets? Kids are wearing mullets? Yeah, that's a thing now. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that up.

I'm actually, I was trying to, you know, shoe that in with the raised by a wolf's conversation too because they have mullets in there. They all have mullets and I'm like, wait a minute. And then all of like, I'd be like, Theo Vaughan and like some of these other comedians and like, popular people and entertainment, like, literally have mullets. And it's like, at first, it's kind of novelty and funny and what a, like, now literally,

people go, and I was talking to Vicki about this too. And she was saying that people come in requesting specifically like this whole party in the front or party in the back and business in the front. Yeah. Dude. Like what? So if you read, I've brought this up before, I haven't talked about this book in a long time, but it's such a great.

I think it's Derek Thompson. I think as the author maybe Doug could look for me. It's called Hitmakers. It was a recommendation from when I first met Tom Bill you he recommended it and it's like the science of of going viral. Yeah right. And this is part of that formula and something where some music works in movies it works in clothing styles. You want something that is familiar enough that you know also a little new right exactly. And so there literally is a formula for

things like this working and there it is right there. It is Derek Thompson. I barely ever remember the author. That's a great way. You're sharply. What's going on? Thank you. I wish I had a commercial to tell you

on why I'm so sharp right now, but I don't. Are you? No, I'm being honest. I'm not trying to sell sharp. I'm not trying to be a cop. I'm not serious. I'm gonna sharpen it. Fuck me.

What's going on here? You know what's, you know, what is interesting that I have found right now, I would have to say that my, which totally goes against, or probably a brand, or probably a message, what I'm gonna say, but. Don't cocaine.

No, no, no, no, no. Lots and lots of matter of. My training volume is really low compared to what it's been in the last like 20 years. Like it's efficient. But it's efficient. But Like it's, but it's efficient, but consistent. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, I know I'm consistently three times a week, you know, a bad week maybe two, a really bad week one, but I'll never string two weeks together right now with one time a week or so with that.

So pretty consistent between two to three times. You feel healthy? Yeah, I just feel, and I noticed it in my sex drive. It just, I feel sharper, I'm getting better rast. It makes me wonder how much, and I know we talk about this. Do I have that tendency to really over train? Of course. Like, I start off in the right direction, doing really well,

and then get like, oh, loving the gains, loving the feel, loving the strength, like, and more and more and more, and even though we preach about it all day long. And for the first time in a long time, I'm really not even focused on it. I have no strength goals right now. I have no even aesthetic goals right now.

I'm more focused on many other aspects of my life, but I also recognize the importance of keeping that. You know what I'm saying? And so right now, I'm kind of like idling in the training area in a way where I'm doing it to compliment everything else in my life, and I have to say that I feel some of the healthiest, I've ever felt in my life. That's great, dude.

I can tell. But I know I don't look the sickest. I've looked way better, I know I've been way stronger, but I feel really, really good with this kind of balance that I have been going on right now. Yeah, I know when I cut my training volume down, I got better results. And I've already accepted the trade-off.

Yeah, I'm probably over training a little bit, but mentally I like training so much that, okay, fine, I've just accepted it. I'll sell my little hard-headed. So I'm pretty sure I'd do better with four days a week. I'm at five days a week. I'll probably do better with four with hard training, but it's hard for me. Yeah, it keeps me sane, that's the thing. You guys know how I get when I don't want to know.

And there's a deal with me. And I think to each their own. And I also think that, you know, where you're at season life, you know, I somebody on Instagram fired me up like about a month ago, like, uh, made a comment to me about, uh, that I make excuses for my, my training volume or what I think it's like, I'm like, oh, I'm too busy. Or I'm a dad or it's just like, no, I'm just a different I'm a dad. Or it's just like, no, I'm just a different season of my life. There's times where.

Bro, training should be a tool. And you use the tool to improve the quality of your life. It shouldn't be your life. If training is your life, there's something that's a different, that's just a buff one. Yeah. Which is better than it's not a buff one. It's not a buff one, loser.

It's just a different kind of way. You'd rather be a buff loser. That's right. Well, it's true. I loser. It's just different kind of way. You'd rather be a buff loser. That's right. Well, it's true. I mean, I just think that my personal journey, I've come full circle on that. I've done all the, I've chased the lifting PRs. I've chased the getting on stage, look.

I've done all that. I ran away from my insecurity of being a skinny guy for so long. And I just feel like I've come full circle. That's also because people don't know behind the scenes. I mean, you do so much on the, you know, we have an investment arm of the company that Adam really, you know, runs quite well and we all have full trust in him because he's smart and he does it right and whatever.

That takes a lot of time. So it's not like you're not training and then you're doing nothing. You're training to compliment everything else. I think that's why I was so, you know, privately annoyed by the kids. They just don't know. Yeah, I have no idea. You fucking little shit. You being lazy.

You being lazy. That's what it felt. That's what it felt. That to me is like, that is the most opposite of my character is like to make it, to make it so being a victim or being lazy. Like those two things, like that, like such a, but then I had to question myself, well why did that bother me so much? Just fucking turd who I don't even know made a comment.

To me, I've just don't know all the other moving parts in your life. You know? You can't say it right now. That's my learning lesson right now is to not get annoyed with people that don't matter. No, hard that is. It is so hard, bro.

That was a reminder for me of a why again, why I wanted to move. Cause it don't matter. So this guy, I don't even, I don't even, I don't even remember the kids' handle or what I've liked that, you know, but you know what I do remember, I do remember it had some like, you know, eat, sleep, repeat was this hashed in and in his bio,

it was like no days. I'm like, dude, you were the, you were telling a pit of me. Yeah. No, you're just having to evolve your kid. You're still figuring it out right now. I mean, and I get it. I was there at 1.2 where, where, and I remember you given Danny a hard time about this when he did the whole, like given people your audience

a hard time about making excuses for not having enough time the day. It's like, you know, there's also this, we do, we go through seasons in our life and our priorities shift. The things that you just mentioned, like I'm actually enjoying and I love that. So there are times. Yeah, so how's your quality of life now?

Yeah, it's incredible. So what else could you possibly ask for? I don't understand what people are in. That's the key right there. Well, what I think is, which is also what I love that what we're doing is I really do mean that we are here to disrupt this space. There is this idea around fitness people

that they have to look a certain way and be all motivational. That's the dysfunctional stuff. It's all of it though. This whole industry is immature. They're not getting any wisdom and maturity trickling in. It's like everybody wants to just be drawn to this.

Listen, it's hard to sell the wisdom, the maturity, the balance. It's hard to sell that. It's easy to sell the other shit. Yeah. If we had, listen, if we lacked integrity and we weren't trainers for two decades, let's say we just started mind-plum,

like I just make a ton of money, you know, whatever. We can very easily sell shit with that, those stupid lines, very easily. Lose 30 pounds in 30 days, take this magic pill. Here's a secret, you're a pussy if you don't work out every day. I could sell that stupid lines. Very easily. Lose 30 pounds in 30 days. Take this magic pill. Here's a secret. You're a pussy if you don't work out every day. I could sell that very easily. A riles people up, it gets people excited. They buy or probably they disappear. You move on to the next customer.

I'm not interested in that shit, man. I train people for too long to know that that's a failing strategy. I don't care. I don't care if that makes more money. And I knew that I was playing into that and using that with the whole competing thing at the beginning. I knew that I needed to get some attention, to get a little bit of an audience so that we had some sort of a platform

to tell the history. And I had no audience. That was really that was the main, but I couldn't tell you how excited I was to leave that. Like it was, it's not a lack of I don't have the discipline or whatever to do, it's just like, nah, I don't wanna live my life that way or does my my wife and my kid my poor kid I can't imagine if I did that like there's other parts in your life, and I think we just we daddy

Can you play with me? Sorry kids? Come on dude. So much me train. I mean we I just think that there should be more of a conversation Especially in the and I don't even know what category we've fallen, because I don't think we're the hippie well and those people, I don't think we're the fucking sports performance people, I also don't think we're the body building community. I just think there's something to take from all

of those communities and the real secret sauce to, I'd say we're the sexy smart people, that's the new category. I like that, I like that, I like that, I can get down real. And humble, sexy balance. The most humble, the humblest podcast. The humblest. It's too late.

We already did an interview where we were all door narcissistic. We can't come out with that. That's an old podcast. Don't bring it up. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, real quick. Look, if you're a fitness fanatic, eat a lot of protein, you fuel your body. You might also struggle with digestive issues.

This is a tough issue for a lot of people. Gut issues can cause inflammation. Spike cortisol, make your insulin go all over the place. Basically make it hard to get lean and fit into build muscle, right? So how do you address this? Well, there's a lot of things you could do, but one thing you could do is utilize digestive enzymes designed for fitness people like you.

Now, the company I like to work with is bi-optimizers. Their mass times are incredible. I love them. I take them when I eat a high protein meal. I digest it so well. It is now staple in my daily use. Okay. So if you're interested in trying this out to see if it solves some of your digestive issues, go to mindpumppartners.com, click on bi-optimizers and then the code is mind pump 10, mind pump one zero for a discount. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Sean from Maryland.

What's up, Sean? How can we help you? Hey guys, great to be with you. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Awesome. Um, well, I've listened to you guys for a while. I got a map, a static back in 2019, a little background.

I'm 41 years old. I was trying to lose weight after I went into a dressing room and saw, you know, the pants were not fitting anymore. And so I, one of my friends told me, cut it to 1800 calories and you'll see it fall off and I did. But I didn't like what I saw once all the weight fell off. So I found you guys, I started this process of building and, you know, cutting and cutting and massing, cutting and massing.

So I got myself to a point where I run maps of static multiple times. I just finished a 12 week cut, went from 2.13 this week. I'll be done at 193. So I'm at a place where I just want to maintain from here on out. So I'm at a place where I just want to maintain from here on out. And running the type of volume that maps the set of has towards in the phase three, especially, and then going to maintenance. I want to run into performance, but I know you guys are usually going, you know, anabolic performance, aesthetic, when you go lower the volume down and go to maintenance,

I'm just worried that now the weight's gonna start coming back on. And I want to talk through that progression of what that's like. You picking up on them, throwing down. Yeah, no, you're good, bro. You're gonna be fine, especially performance, because performance actually has got, I mean, we have an additional phase in there. There's an endurance phase.

The exercises, a lot of them in there are so novel, like you probably haven't done a lot of them. So it's gonna be a new stimulus. So even if you are in a slight calorie surplus to calorie burn ratio, because there's even if there was a tiny bit less volume, it's gonna be a new stimulus. You're gonna build muscle from it.

I think you're in a great place right now. Where's your calorie intake right now? You said before, 1800, but it sounds like you went up. Yeah, so I went up. When I started the cut back, the beginning of January, it was like at 22 to 24. Right now, I'm at, you know, on workout days, I'm getting about 1800 on the weekends when I'm resting. I'm cutting it down to about 14, which that's brutal.

So I'm happy to be done with that soon. Yeah, yeah, no, so I mean, to put it differently, remember this, like, yes, exercise and activity burns calories, but that's actually the least in, I guess, important part of exercise. What you really want to focus on over the adaptations, because you're changing workouts, the adaptations are going to be quite favorable. So you're not going to get this like real negative effect

from all of a sudden, not burning as many calories as you were doing before. But performance is still a muscle building based program. They're all strength and resistance training type programs. So I wouldn't worry about that. The second thing to consider is, and this is a fact, the amount of volume and training and frequency and intensity it's required to get the body to build muscle

is far higher than what's required to maintain. In fact, the last study that I read was something like one seventh of volume was required to maintain, which is quite a bit less. So, a lot of people worry about that, right? They do all this volume, they get to a particular point, they wanna maintain, like, oh my God, if I don't do this exact same thing I've been doing,

I'm gonna go backwards. That's not true, I mean, I've been training for a long time, and if I wanna just maintain, the amount of volume I need to keep my body where it's at is so low compared to what it took to get it where it's at. So you're in actually a really good place, and I'm gonna make a prediction here, Sean, you're gonna switch over to performance,

bump your calories a little bit. You'll probably get a little leaner and build a little bit more muscle. Yeah, it's probably what's gonna happen. Yeah, you're bi switch over to performance, bump your calories a little bit. You'll probably get a little leaner and build a little bit more muscle. Yeah, it's probably what's gonna happen. Yeah, your body's gonna respond completely differently. It's such a different pursuit in terms of, a lot of exercises in there, people just haven't included a lot, and your muscles have to respond,

you know, in different planes, and you know, that's all just like, you know, new territory for your body to, you know, build upon, and you're gonna find that translates really well towards your aesthetic goals. Yeah, you know, it's really cool about where you're at, Sean, is you could just now enjoy the workouts. Like, forget, there's really no, don't worry about goals.

Just enjoy the process and the journey. And what you'll find is that's gonna get you, I mean, the side effect of that is gonna be like incredible fitness and aesthetics. And you're gonna maintain, you're gonna find yourself not swinging like you might have before. So I would say now, change the mentality,

go into your workouts, and then just focus on the workout itself and enjoy the workout itself, and enjoy the novelty and the difference in the exercises, and how you're moving and how you're feeling and the performance aspect of it. And then don't even pay attention necessarily to trying to hit a specific goal.

But the side effect of that, which is the irony of all that, is the side effect is going to be, you're going to probably improve your aesthetics by doing that. That's great. I think that's one of the reasons I'm excited about with being 41 and just wanting to make sure I like the fact that there's mobility days in there. And I want that movement. and I grew up an athlete.

And so I actually like the way you guys have talked about performance. It's always maybe wanna try it out. So I got it. Yeah, pretty stoked to try it. That's encouraging to hear. I think it's just messes with your mind when you're doing so much volume.

So I appreciate you guys feeding back on it. Totally does, Sean. And then I'm gonna send you the intuitive nutrition guide to help you with the diet part, because now that you're not looking at trying to add or drop calories or necessarily count macros, you're kind of in this maintenance state of mind, the intuitive eating guide will help you with that. It's a really nice place to live.

This is where you kind of want to live most of the time that you're exercising or whatnot. So we'll send that over to you. And I think that'll help you a little bit. Yeah, and if you're happy where your weight is at right now, this is a great time to kind of transition into not really calorie counting so much. I mean, my recommendation or transition for you right now at the stage right would be, well, keep an eye on protein still because we want to make sure that we build some muscle into this new program and maintain the physique that you have or that you like.

So let's watch that a little bit, but for the most part as far as how I would feed you is, I'd really be asking you, how do you feel? Are you hungry? And if you notice that you're hungry from the new workouts, I would say, hey, let's eat. Let's feed you. Just make good choices. Like I always say, don't eat like an asshole. Eat what your body needs.

I'm going to write that actually. Don't eat like an asshole. Yes, for optimal health. I think you know what I mean when I say that, right? Actually, there's a really good chance coming out of the low calories you are doing a program like performance, which is very different than aesthetic, is going to send a signal for your body to change a dab, build muscle, and it's going to want probably more calories. And you're going to probably have this little hesitancy of like, ah, that's great. I don't want to eat it. I want to eat all time.

I got a whole back. I don't want to put on a bunch of fat. But man, if you're lifting and you're making good choices when you add the extra calories, I'm going to tell you most of it's going to be muscle, it's going to get put on your body. There's a lot of metabolic flexibility in there. Yeah. And would you say that's the same case, even like I'm going to Lebanon to work with Syrian refugees for a couple of weeks and like doing some different traveling. So I have the anywhere and I have the suspension, be the kind of the same thing for that right then come back and get into performance. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. And hey man, that's cool that you're doing that. Thanks. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for all you do. It's awesome to be on here with you.

Love to see concurrent training program come eventually where someone wants to learn like integrate running and and lifting more like a shade. Toon Sean, this is going to be a good year for someone like you then. I'm having it away. That's true. Thanks for calling in, man. Yep. All right, you guys have a good day.

Appreciate it. You know, Adam, one thing that you've said in the past that I really think is important to focus on is rather than taking things away at your diet, prioritizing and adding things in your diet that are beneficial. With the side effect being, you end up naturally reducing the things in your diet that maybe aren't so beneficial. So for example, you always say, kind of keep your eye on protein. I mean, to put it differently, it's like,

there's a value ladder of foods, and I would place protein at the top of it. Quality protein from whole foods. So when you're putting your meal together, that's the priority of the meal. What's the side effect of that? Lower appetite, obviously the performance enhancing, muscle building effects of the protein.

You're probably gonna eat less of other foods that maybe aren't so beneficial. The next thing I would probably look at would be maybe fats and vegetables and then starches would be third third just because carbohydrates aren't essential. And I think that's a great long term approach. So it's not counting calories and macros. You just understand the value of foods and you've chased the higher value foods and then allow the lower value foods kind of fall off off the plate. Yeah, no, it's definitely a coaching hack or trick, right? To, if you're playing with the human psychology a little bit, you're not telling a client

they can't, you know, you can't do this, you can't have that or restrike and hold back this. It's like, but what you've found for years of training, I know you guys have come to the same conclusion is that if I get my client to just focus on that and not giving them crazy parameters, they say, hey, listen, just make sure every time you sit down, what's going through your head is make sure you're I'm getting good quality protein and enjoy it. And have variety.

You want some sausage, everyone's well fine. Have a good steak, have a good steak, you want some chicken thighs, have chicken thighs. And but target that first and you do, you end up filling up and then what ends up happening is without you even trying to restrict from the starches and the other foods, you end up filling up, and then what ends up happening is, without you even trying to restrict from the starches and the other foods, you just naturally do.

I just think it's a much better strategy for most people that aren't trying to compete. It's a strategy that works in real life. Yeah. Our next caller is Chris from Australia. Chris, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

It's really awesome to be on the show. I said on the email, it's awesome to hear some people from outside of America on the call and I've actually heard a couple of people from the Philippines and Australia recently. So yeah, congratulations for inviting other people on the show. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so I guess I'll just jump straight into it. And so I guess the key thing is I've spent the last, been working out for quite a few years. But over the last two years, I've been doing a lot of,

I know you call it, bro splits. So I've been doing five to six times a week. And I was doing some smaller, 45 minute sessions and things like that. And I've been listening to all your talks around, going to the gym too much versus doing your max andabolic sessions. And the only thing I would add to that

is going every day was awesome after lockdown. And getting back into it was fantastic. So I was going like five, six, seven, eight times a week and it really got me out of that lockdown mentality. But I started doing map sound and I mean, setting, seeing awesome results doing map sound and ball look, it seemed like significant improvements in terms of like my performance in terms of aesthetics in terms of everything and I'm loving it. And I'm loving the extra time that it's giving me in my day now doing map sound and ball look. You know, I've got two or three days a week where I can spend some time with my

girlfriend and things like that, which is really, really cool. But I guess the key thing is I'm planning to quit my job in the next six months and go traveling. While I'm planning to travel, I'm planning to spend a lot of time surfing and snowboarding and things like that. And I'm just wondering what should I do in terms of a leading to a long time off, like I'm planning on going holiday for like a year or two years. And the main focus would be, well, as I get closer to quitting my job and have a lot more free time, you know,

as I wind down for my job and all that type of stuff, I'll have more time, you know, you know, really enjoy hitting the gym. So, But I don't want to go back to over doing it again because I'm in seeing such good results with maps and a bowl-ok and cutting it down to two to three days a week. So yeah, I've been really loving that. So I guess that's my first question is, what would you recommend in terms of programming to get me into or getting ready to go on a holiday. Chris. Oh, sorry.

Chris, are you, when you do this, do you have any plans to still train at all or is the plan to just get in the best shape you can and then you're going to be just snowboarding and surfing and stuff? Yes. So the plan is, I'm going to try and do, when I'm traveling, I like going running, seeing new cities and things like that, but the plan is to be hardcore surfing and hardcore snowboarding, like surfing two to three times a day in Indonesia for three months, and then hitting Canada for the winter season and, you know, skiing, you know,

you need a travel partner or what? I was thinking about leaving these, I was thinking about leaving these knuckleheads anyways. You know what, Chris, because you're going to be gone for so long, it really doesn't matter what you lead into. The lead-in would be like, well, I'm going to be off for three weeks, so I want to be able to jump back in. That's why I asked too if he was going to be training still too, so we're going to be doing it.

He doesn't really make a difference. So just do what you're still doing that works. And then when you go on vacation, I would say if you wanna work out a little bit when you're on vacation, use map suspension because you can do that anywhere. You just bring your suspension trainers and it'll probably be a good addition

to all the activity you're doing. Really not to, not as your foundational kind of focus of your workouts, but rather just to prevent injury and maintain some strength. So you can perform when you're surfing or skiing or snowboarding or doing whatever, but really doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter what you're leading into because you've been gone for so long. So whatever the results that linger after your workout, it's not going to make a difference

after about a month or two. So I would just say just keep doing what you're doing, enjoy yourself, and then when you're gone, if you wanna add one or two days a week of some type of strength training, just to compliment your current activities at the time, I would say map suspension would be perfect. Well, he does have six months, right?

We have six months till this happens. So I've got six months, and I'm gonna have a lot more spare time as I get closer to winding down. I really wanna get like to peak. So, I would do this thing. I would do this. Sounds right. Like what we do is kind of doesn't matter that much,

but there's still enough time right now for you to slowly scale volume a little bit. You're having great results in anabolic, finish anabolicabolic go all the way through. Then I'd go to aesthetic and then I'd go to like strong something like that or split. You know, do run them like that. That'll take you up until you travel and then do exactly what Sal said is I think suspension would be an amazing tool to have because it fits in your duffle bag and you could tie it outside to a tree and don't make it a big deal. Just hey if one time a week Yeah, especially with the amount of activity you're doing. Yeah, you're gonna be you're gonna be you're gonna stay in great shape

Because you're gonna be physically active all the time But you know, hey if you had if you have a down week or whatever or whether isn't lining up for you to do one of your sports So you know you go do the suspension trainer and don't make it a big deal If you a week goes by and you don't but when you do have the time to do it, you strap it up to something and do it. Yeah, if you're going for really increasing volume, like I would go with Adam's suggestion, I mean, if you're trying to reinforce to what you're doing in terms of surfing and snowboarding, I would recommend you throw performance in the mix.

That's a good point. You know, right after and then get into aesthetic or split, you know, either one, so you could go that direction. But yeah, you're pretty much open to another to programs of ours. That's not a bad idea, Justin. I could go, I'd change my answer after,

he brings up a good point, because especially since you're going into sports like that, maybe just to minimize it, because you know, when you get right into all that surfing, the risk of injuries a little higher as your body acrobatics. Yeah, so that, so maybe this then, so maybe go anabolic, aesthetic, and then performance. So you're doing performance right before you take off on your trip. Sure.

Yeah, that, I like that order a lot. And by the way, there's no wrong answer here. I think you're going to benefit. You're going to do great no matter what. But I think you're seeing great results from anabolic with that type of volume. Continue that. Maps aesthetic is going to be more volumes. You're going to build even more muscle from that. And then performance is like a whole new adaptation that you're doing. So your body is going to probably build muscle that. But it's more focused around mobility. And I think that like just to Justin's point is going

to benefit the sports and the things you're doing. And then again, still I would have the suspension trainer. So I think that that would be kind of the perfect situation. Pretty much covered at that point. Yeah Chris, when you travel like that, I had a friend that used to do that. He would just take off for six months to a year. He didn't really have like a structured plan.

Is that like you or are you going out there and you have like a place to go? You know, our jobs and everything. Yeah, do you know where you're gonna stay? Or do you like, do you know where you're staying and what you're doing or you just kind of go there and figure it out Yes, I'm a key when this is kind of an idea to go and do this every every five or 10 years So I know roughly what countries I'm gonna hit at what times of the year to get right seasons for the best waves and the best snow But in terms of you know ins and outs not no idea. I've been working really hard for the best waves and the best snow, but in terms of, you know, ins and outs, no idea. I've been working really hard for the last few years, so, you know,

I'm just, just really to take a whole day. I guess the other thing I would say is that, you know, when I change from doing, you know, going to the gym almost every day, down to doing maps and a ball look, I've definitely noticed that my performance and surfing is increased massively because I'm not super fatigued all the time. You know, when I was hitting post lockdown, I was hitting, you know, five, six days in the gym. And, and I was just so wrecked that I had no stability. I had no, I was, you know, just had the dons all the time.

So I just, I kept my surfing was really suffering. So I'm noticing that a mat and a bollock is definitely improved my surfing massively because I'm not constantly just ruined. Yeah. And that's a good point. It's great connected. And like I said, when you're out there, you know, when you're out taking that time off and doing all that activity, like one day a One day a week of a suspension trainer resistance training would be ideal.

That's it. And you would get the same benefit. You'd feel the stability, the strength, and that's pretty much it. The biggest mistake people may, especially people who are really active, is they throw a bunch of gym time on top of their activity, and then they can't figure out why they're not

feeling great when they're working out so much. It's just too much Chris You have any plans to make it to the west coast here California Canada so I'll be in BC. That's the plan is to go and hit BC That's maybe also rebel stock as well. So a little bit further in but yeah mainly Canada But yeah, I'll definitely be hitting through hitting through that way at some point. I haven't done West Coast. Sorry. Yeah, we got the Mavericks over here near Justin.

Right, Justin's Nets. It's a fun one. Yeah, so it's a great win chart. I agree. I agree. I've heard of Mavericks before, yeah, for sure. Chris, I'm leaving Sandy Maps suspension, okay? I'm gonna send that over to you, so you'll have that.

Awesome. One more quick question as well. I noticed you asked us, you answered this the other day for a couple of other guys, but why do I hate trigger sessions so much? I absolutely hate trigger sessions. And like I've tried every different trick you've suggested to everyone else, I've tried going in a trigger session

and in the gym, I've tried building them into my day. I'm doing them, I'm doing them, but I'm struggling to get more than one or two in a day. It's just, it's not a full workout. So if you love working out, it's like, it seems tedious, that's why. Yeah, it's like you're, you know, it's like,

a bit of a tease. Yeah, it's like your girlfriend kisses you a little bit and then leaves and you're like, okay, so it's all on me. But it's recuperative, man. So you gotta just look at it completely differently. Like this is helping you to recover more effective. The longer you'll do them, the more you'll start to appreciate.

But it's not a workout, so that's why. A good move in strategy is to attach it to something else you do really consistently. Okay, so if you have some sort of routine where you go for a walk, it's sometimes, maybe you, I don't know if you have an animal or dog, you walk or you have a place from work where you go for a walk at certain times, maybe you, I don't know if you have an animal or dog, you walk or you have a place from work where you have a... Hell, if you, if you attack your pet,

if you attack it, if you attach it to something else that you do consistently, it'll help you with the consistency around the trigger sessions. And don't get hung up so much on like, oh, this is the optimal time or oh, this is exactly two hours apart each time I do it. Just attach it to something that you do consistently already because it's only adding, and even so one of the times

that one of the things I started doing at one point with trigger sessions to be consistent because I struggled with the same thing. It was part of me, one of the times would be right before I go to bed and right when I wake up. It's like first thing in the morning, brush my teeth and I go over and do this little, you know, five to ten minute pump real quick to start my day. And then I would end it.

And at least I was getting two times a day and then I would always try and get the third. Like that was probably the most consistent I was with trigger sessions was just when I start my day, when I am my day, I was doing that right before or right when I wake up. Yeah. First shout out. All right Chris, thanks for calling in, huh? Good luck, have fun. Cheers guys.

You got it. Justin. I don't think I'll start talking about that. You didn't enjoy that. Did you know that that qualas just off topic here? Did you know that they have like a... SDD. Gone are ya.

Like crazy. With the quala. Now can they give it to humans? I mean, I don't know, I've never had sex with a Kuala. Yeah, exactly, I'm sure somebody used to be. I'm sure somebody used to be. Bang the Kuala, the least of your worries has got a Rhea. Yeah.

Justin, stop banging that Kuala, gonorrhea. Well, what if, I mean, what on a Kuala? I mean, it's got serious claws, like, what if it scratched you and it bled on you and you, oh yeah, so yeah, so I mean, you don't actually have to have sex with the quality actually get the gonorrhea from them No, just for play, but I mean there's not a lot like do I thought a lot of diseases don't go don't go from Animal to human yeah, I think that one does I think so yeah, I think it's legit gonorrhea

Wow, I know is that where you got it from no King or you know what though, know, kind of what he's saying, boy, that's a huge mistake, a lot of really active people. It's like, man, I run, I cycle, I wanna add some strength training. So they add in like four days of strength training to their routine. And then they're like, oh, it doesn't work for me.

I end up feeling worse. It's the strength training's fault. No, it's not. You're just, it's just too much. You're just doing way too much. Yeah, you know, the irony is, MAP's in a ball like, is a pure muscle building, sagittal plane workout, and he's noticing improvements in his surfing. Yeah. Just to go to show you. But that's the reason why is just backing off the volume. Yeah,

it's stronger being over trained. Yeah, I actually think it's, I mean, kudos to him for having the self awareness to even connect the dots on that. A lot of people don't, you know, they would think it's something else, like, oh, or something magical in the workout. It's like, no, it's just your volume. We were doing way too much. Our next caller is Marco from Ecuador.

Marco, how can we help you? Hey guys, first of all, thank you very much for everything you do. You may hear these a lot of times that you truly change lives. Oh, I appreciate it. So, my question is about blood donations and workout. I'm a big skeptical of all the information one can find on the internet, how related. And when you look for a blood donation, there's

a long list of all the positives with very little negative. I would like to hear you guys about your experiences with this and how to prepare the days before and how to prepare for the days after a blood donation. Thank you. Good question. Actually, not much. What you don't want to do is strenuous physical activity for 24 to 48 hours after, just because you may find you might get a little dizzy. Now, I'm gonna be honest, so I just gave blood.

I noticed none of those effects afterwards. Now, I do. You do. So, is it from the sight of the blood or the fact that you gave blood? I mean, I don't know, but I assume it's because it's not just the moment after. It's the whole next day. I'm pretty fatigued. Now, did you donate blood or just get a blood test? No, no, the whole next day. I'm pretty, I'm pretty fatigued.

Now, did you donate blood or just get a blood test? No, no, I've donated blood. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah. I mean, I just recently get a blood test, but I've done where you give like, you know, was it three, four vials? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the bag or whatever? Yeah, and that, you know, for the next 24 hours, I'm just, I normally take the next day off. Yeah, my wife is like that. So she donated blood and then was felt really faint the day after. I felt nothing, but I definitely wouldn't recommend working out right afterwards. Now, leading into blood donation, I mean, it's all the stuff that they ask you not to do. Drugs, unprotected sex, you know, the whole deal, right?

You want to make sure your blood is clean so that they, although they test it, you definitely want to give clean blood. As far as the benefits are concerned, most of the benefits with donating blood besides the psychological benefits, right? Because you feel good, you're helping people, that type of stuff. The physiological benefits, many of which, or most of which, apply to men, men don't obviously bleed regularly like women do. And we can often build up kind of toxic or dangerous levels of iron in our

blood, or even if it's not toxic or too dangerous, just higher levels of iron can cause increased risk of heart disease and blood clots and cancers and stuff like that. So they find that men that give blood at least once a year have like a significant reduction in some of those things. And that's pretty much it. But the day after, I would say, I wouldn't work out for 24 to 40 hours. Just to be safe.

Yeah, just to be safe, because what you don't want to do is, you know, pass out, right? You want to do squats and then find yourself passing out. But after that, totally fine. I gave blood personally, I worked out about maybe two days later. I felt zero negative effects, but I'm glad you're doing this.

You know, there's a huge blood shortage going on right now, especially after the pandemic, a lot of people stop donating blood and they're in this massive shortage. And it's a big deal because we have yet to create synthetic blood that we can give to people. So good on you. Yeah, thank you, thank you very much. No problem, thanks for calling in Marco.

Thank you for everything you do appreciate it Yeah, you know, I got called back by the Red Cross because I donated and all the STDs. Yeah, and they said Can't take this crazy. No, they know they make it this one. They're hanging out with koalas too much They said they said they said you got a lot of a lot of weird supplements in your blood. Why is it yellow? No, I'm opositive, so I'm a universal donor. So they called me up right away and said, hey, can you come back in and we'll put you on a regular schedule because of whatever. I say, yeah, absolutely.

But the health benefits are what got me interested for men in particular. And if that motivates people to give blood, that's great. I know it kind of definitely. I've heard that for me. Yeah, in terms of, yeah, with the iron, but also too, just the amount of blood cells. Like, I guess that, you know, sometimes we could get to a point where we produce too many blood cells

and it actually has an adverse... Like thickening effect. Like a thickening effect, yeah. So, yeah, I'm due. So this is one of those things. I'm like, yeah, I think I should schedule one. Bodybuilders have been doing this for quite a while. Yeah, and now they do it for different reasons, right?

Because when they're on high doses of anabolic steroids, it makes your body produce more red blood cells. Your hematocrete goes up too high, so one way to regulate that, and easy ways to give blood. So I know that they do that. Yeah, that's actually what, I mean, when I was taking all kinds of testosterone,

that was one of the reasons why I did that to get down there, but, and I would do it more consistently if I didn't they do that. Yeah, that's actually what let, I mean, I, when I was taking all kinds of test off from that was one of the reasons why I did that. Yeah, I'm there. But and I would do it more consistently if I didn't feel that way. I feel that way every time. So it's been a handful of times now that I've done it. And every time I feel kind of you would have made a good, good warrior. It also gets rid of all the demons.

The main reason this was 5,000 years ago. Adam, Adam, Adam, the evil doctor told me on the, on the battlefield. Imagine he gets a cut. Oh, God. Now be extra motivated not to die, bro. Let's just, Adam, the medieval doctor told me. On the battlefield, imagine he gets a cut. Oh, God. Not be extra motivated not to die, bro. That's what he says. Don't want to get cut. I'm just kidding. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, an easy, very effective, direct way of helping people. Sometimes you give a random person money on the street.

You don't know what they're doing with it. You give blood, it's gonna be used. It's gonna be nice, you know, bag of blood. Yeah, for a good purpose. Unless it's, you know, weird celebrities using it to be young, you know what I mean, Justin. Our next caller is Brian from Minnesota. Brian, what's happening?

How can we help you? Yeah, thanks for taking my call, guys. I really appreciate this. Just a little background for you. So I am 41 years old. I'm a single dad. I find the best to work out in the mornings with my schedule.

So I work out between normally 5.30 to 7.30 in the morning. And I find that helps keep me consistent. So start lifting weights about 18 months ago after years of doing nothing but running and really start running is how I'd get my results. And after I realized of running three to five miles a day and I was at my heaviest 245 pounds that something needed to change. My blood work was kind of a mess and I came across you guys and I think the best thing that happened was my treadmill broke.

And so I bought a pair of adjustable dumbbells, committed to just do in 10 minutes a day. And because I tend to when I get after things, I really get after it and then can either cause injury or get frustrated and kind of move on. So, I started listening to you guys kind of went more with a split style, we've seen some results but then kind of hit plateau so it decided to go on. So, I started listening to you guys kind of went more with a split style, seen some results, but then kind of hit plateau. So, decided to go in on what you guys were saying and switched over. And so, lost my job actually in October, which led to having a little time on my hand. So, I bought anabolic and got gym memberships, started track and mac rows, really got great results. So after that, I went into doing aesthetics. And really during about that last week of aesthetics, I had started noticing getting some pain

that I hadn't experienced before, a little bit in the neck, back, just kind of all over and I felt like my body was really pushing it. And I was getting to the point where, you where, I needed to do something a little different. So my question for you guys is, is where would I go next? I did finish the aesthetics, I saw a terrific results. I'm down to 200 pounds, got my body fat tested. I'm really proud of where I got to

because of your guys' programs, but just feel like I need to train maybe in a little different plane, a little different program. And so where would you guys suggest I go next? Yeah, but Brian, by the way, aesthetic is a lot of volume. So, and I want people to know this, it's a lot of volume.

And for some people, it's too much. Okay, I'd say probably, I've all the people that buy it, a good 30 to 40% of the people, probably it's a little too much volume for them. So that's why you started kind of feeling that pain. Now to answer your question, math performance. Hands down would be the perfect pro.

Oh, this is such a, your story is a perfect example of, and I know we probably don't do this enough. We used to early on and we should revisit communicating this more, but when we wrote the programs, the ideal way to follow them is map centabolic, maps performance, and then maps aesthetic for the exact reason you're experienced right now is after doing the anabolic training with that, which is very heavily focused in the sagittal plane, jumping into aesthetic, which is also heavily focused in the sagittal plane and increasing volume, tends to do this, especially for us guys that are older than 30 years old.

You're 20-something, maybe you don't realize it or recognize it too much, but as we get older, this stuff really starts to show up and had you gone to perform its first, I think that you would eliminate it, what you feel, right? Yeah, you're really pressuring the hinges at that point, right? So you've been in a lot of work there, Anabalek and then added volume on top of that style of training. So you're going to do your body a whole bunch of good going through performance and going through the movements and reinforcing the joints and gaining stability and also to building muscle. So it's, you know, misconception is that you're going through performance to kind of, you know, just go through the mobility sessions and get better with,

you know, the movement side of it, but really you're building muscle the entire time as well. So I think it's going to be a great follow-up. We'll send over maps for forms to you, Brian, if you don't have it, okay? Oh, I really appreciate that. And you're right on there, just that's kind of why I skipped that one was for the first time I saw such good results in muscle definition and stuff. I thought, oh, I'm not going to do performance. I'm jumping right to aesthetics. I need to keep this. You're not alone, brother.

Here's the lesson for you, Brian, because you actually did it. You actually kind of learned this lesson a little bit and then kind of forgot it. The lesson is to listen to what we say, because we know what we're doing. I just heard a story. Listen, we say an because we know what we're doing. I just heard a story. Listen, we say, anabolic performance, okay? So, and I know you're like, I wanna go aesthetic because I wanna keep pushing things. Just, I promise you Brian, we've been doing this

for a long ass time, decades. We're only, we communicate as trainers. We're not just trying to sell shit or whatever. That's the truth, so maps performance do that all the way. You'll love the way it makes you look and feel. 100, you'll feel better with maps performance and you did even with maps and a ball.

That's 100% true. Sure. And to that point, I have really bought in to what you guys preach or what you say. And just one quick second is, you know, my way to say thanks to you guys is I hope I hope others here This is what makes you guys really different is Uh in business in life you can really fake caring about results, you know

Especially if it's driven to make money, but which can't fake is caring about people and getting a message out And you guys couldn't fake it as long as you have so you know you guys actually care I appreciate it. So I have bought into what you guys do and it's kind of funny my girlfriend is actually joined in also and I've helped her actually get back into doing some weightlifting now and some stuff with diet and other stuff so it's awesome what you guys do and really appreciate what you guys do. Thanks a whole lot, Brian. How many kids do you have, by the way? I just have one daughter. Good for you, man. But she's 10 now and getting more and more active.

And that's what hurt is when she was eight and I wasn't keeping up with her at all. And it was like something needs to change because I'm running three to five miles a day and I can't keep up with her. Hey, Brian, I'm gonna send you map suspension too. If your daughter shows any interest in doing any exercises with dad That's a great great thing for a kid to introduce all send you that to you, okay?

That's awesome because she will every once in a while like on like trigger days or something you know at home I she will jump in and maybe she just does obviously like body weight or something like that But she will jump in every once in a while. Oh good deal. Yeah, so we'll send you maps performance and maps suspension That's awesome. I really appreciate it guys. Thanks Brian. I appreciate you guys. Brian. Oh, good deal. Yeah, so we'll send you performance and map suspension. That's awesome. I really appreciate it, guys. Thanks, Brian. Thank you, Brian. All right, thanks.

You got it. Yeah, I mean, I get the whole, I get the allure, right? Wanting to go in a particular direction, thinking you're going to maybe respond a little different, but yeah. And look, I'm going to be honest, if I was Brian, I would have done the same thing. 100% I get it.

Well, the results come on and it's a, it's a day tip. You know how it's like, wow, look at my body changing and transforming and so yeah, it's just, it's a little bit different mindset to also now think more long term about your training. Yeah, and people just, they're always pleasantly surprised. They'll do a program they think, all right, you know, they tell me I should do this, but I wanna do this,

but I'll do what they tell me. And then, you know, a month or two later, they're like, oh crap, this is exactly what I need it. Yeah, you know, every time this comes up, I actually, I always do, have a mental note and I never fall through on it, which is, you should probably write it down. Yeah, I know, I should probably get Doug to do it here.

We really should highlight that somewhere on the website, because we think, because we've said it 30 times, the perfect order on the show. And why? You know I'm saying like why you go this direction and not that you can't do it other ways, is that we wrote it with this intent for these reasons and because this is a perfect example of why you want

to follow it in the order that we say, regardless kind of what your goal is, even if your goal is to build a maximum amount of muscle, people don't realize that you are going to do that by going through the performance program second. So we ought to put it on the website somewhere where we can explain that because there's a good chance that somebody listened to 500 episodes, but they've never heard us say that before. So. Yeah, good deal.

Look, if you like our information, head over to over to mind pump free calm and check out our guides We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness goal and they're all free You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at mind pump Justin Adam is on Instagram at mind pump at him and you can only find me on Twitter at mind pump Sal. Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and Maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com.

The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable

free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump. And until next time, this is Mindbomb.