Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1804: Explosive Exercises for Muscle Growth & Fat Loss, the Impact of Short-Term Caloric Restriction on the Metabolism, the Pros & Cons of Eating Carbs & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode is a live one. People called in, and we got to coach them on air. If you ever want to be on one of these episodes, you can email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now, we open

Starting point is 00:00:30 the episode with an intro portion where we talk about current events, scientific studies, we talk about our sponsors. Today's intro was 64 minutes long after that, we got to the questions. He went down in today's show. We opened up about cutting and bulking and what kind of workouts you should do for both. Then we talked about the best temperature for sleep, which led us to talking about chili sleep and their technology. So they make devices that cool or warm your bed.

Starting point is 00:01:00 So it's like a pad that goes over your bed and it uses water to be cool or warm. There's two sides. So you and your partner can have different temperatures and you can even program it to warm up in the morning to wake you up slowly and naturally. Really awesome and it contributes to terrific sleep. It's a game changer. You got to go check them out.

Starting point is 00:01:20 Go to mindpumppartners.com, click on chili sleep, and you can get 30% off the purchase of any new cube or uler sleep system, plus save 10% off the purchase of a doc pro. So it's an exclusive offer for mind pump. Then we talked about the oldest person in the world, they just passed away. We talked about how one company is experimenting with a new type of work week.

Starting point is 00:01:44 We talked about the documentary about Ab experimenting with a new type of work week. We talked about the documentary about Aburkronbi and Fitch. I talked about the new government agency that might be starting called the disinformation governance board. Sounds great. We talked to Justin about eating breakfast. He's having Legion way protein in the morning

Starting point is 00:02:00 because he needs to speed up his metabolism, build some muscle. That's what he's trying to do. And have more energy. And it's working. Legion makes great performance enhancing supplements. Go check them out. Go to mindpumppartners.com.

Starting point is 00:02:11 Click on Legion. Use the code Mind Pump for 20% off your first order. And if you're returning customer, you get double rewards points. Then we got some questions. So the first one was Nick from Colorado. He wants to know if explosive type cardio builds muscle. The next question was from Michelle from California. She want to know if she went really low calorie for just a short period of time, if there

Starting point is 00:02:32 would be a negative effect on her metabolism. Then we talked at Zach from Maryland wants to know if it's better to add weight to the bar or if it's better to make the weight feel heavier through slowing down the reps and squeezing the muscles harder. And the final question was Ashley from Ohio. She wants to know if carbs are good or bad, like what's the deal? Should I eat them or should I avoid them? Also, one day left for the huge April sale.

Starting point is 00:02:57 This is a huge discount. There's one day left. Check this out. Maps prime, maps prime pro and maps anywhere. Altogether would normally retail for $361. But right now you can get them all for $99.99. This promotion will be ending in one day and it won't come back till next year. So you've got to take advantage of this.

Starting point is 00:03:17 Head over to mapsaparl.com. Once again, it's mapsaparl.com. Whether your goal is to cut or to bulk, you should train to build muscle. It benefits both of those. I think when people are, they change their training based on the cutting or bulking goal with their strength training, not realizing that the goal should always be to build muscle, even if you're trying to cut because at the very least what it's going to do is it's going to preserve the most muscle mass because it's

Starting point is 00:03:47 very difficult to keep muscle as you drop calories. So you want to send a build muscle signal no matter what. So strength training should always be revolved around that. This reminds me a lot of the questions we get all the time about like how to pair the nutrition with the types of programs we have as well. And it's, you know, it, again, the end of the day, especially if your goal is to build muscle, like we got to make sure that we're inadequate surplus for that to happen, given it proper nutrients.

Starting point is 00:04:12 Now, are you saying that at the same time? So let's say I'm going on a cut, are you saying that my goal should also to build muscle with the training with God? So that, I think there needs to be some clarity. So it's like, even though I'm getting ready to go into a cut, you know, so a calorie deficit for an extended period of time,

Starting point is 00:04:31 the thought process is my programming should be written or I should be following something that is trying to build more muscle on my body. Yeah, now, now, I know some people are thinking they're like, you know, when I go on a cut, what I've heard is when you go on a cut, you do a lot of supersets, you do a lot more reps because it burns more calories.

Starting point is 00:04:50 And I get the rationale, but that's not why I would have somebody do supersets, for example. If it's a novel stimulus, whether you're in a bulk of calories or you're in a deficit with calories, it's gonna build muscle. So what you wanna do is what you to do to build muscle with your training. Then the diet is what determines whether or not you cut or you're bulk, because the signal that you send with your strength training is going to at least keep the muscle, the most,

Starting point is 00:05:17 right? It's going to keep the muscle the most as you cut your calories. So someone may ask, well, why then do people do supersets and stuff? Well, they think it burns more calories. But there is a psychological benefit. I like to do supersets and higher reps when I cut my calories, not because there's some special fat burning properties to that kind of training. It's the psychological piece. Yeah, because I don't feel lighter. You don't feel like a whoosh because you're having to lift half the weight because you're not as strong. Yes. So if I'm doing supers, I'm going to go lighter anyway, right? But I've done, you know, five by five type training

Starting point is 00:05:46 on a cut as well. It was a novel stimulus. And so I said, I'm gonna switch to the style of training to keep muscle while I'm dropping calisers. It's the most effective thing. What would make me decide is 100% what I was doing before transition to cut. That's regardless of, and I agree with you,

Starting point is 00:06:01 like the psychological benefits of going lightweight and super setting and higher reps when you're in the psychological benefits of going lightweight and supersetting in higher reps when you're in a cut because you're in a calorie deficit, I think there's a lot of psychological benefits of that. So you're not discouraged every day, like you're getting weaker and weaker. But that would be different if, say, I was just running, like, let's say a phase three of maps aesthetic, which is a lot of supersets, higher reps, right? So I just come off a map second, and then now I which is a lot of supersets, high reps, right? So I just come off a map set and then now I'm deciding, okay, I've been running that,

Starting point is 00:06:29 let's say for three or four weeks and I go, okay, now I want to start a cut. So if I want to start a cut, even though I agree and I like the idea of superset Australia, I would move out of that because that's what I was currently in. Yeah, so you get a new stimulus, a novel stimulus, right? So you would go into like a heavy training phase. That's right. Even if you're cutting your cattle. That's right, that's right. And so I think that's the key takeaway

Starting point is 00:06:47 for transitioning in and out of, and I like that for going into a bulk. So anytime I transition my diet, where I'm trying to, and not just in two to eating or trying to stay balanced, but I'm trying to make moves. I'm trying to lean out, or I'm trying to bulk up.

Starting point is 00:07:00 If I shift my diet in one direction or the other, I also like to shift the stimulus. I also like to shift. Just to maximize the change. Yeah, the programming. Exactly. You maximize. Especially after you've been doing this for a really long time, the shifts are so subtle

Starting point is 00:07:15 and the gains are so subtle that anything I can do to accelerate or make those gains look like they're more. I'm going to do those things in one of those ways is sending a novel signal while also checking it out. Yeah, I think I misunderstood what your point was, but yeah, I think for sure a lot of people misunderstand the fact that you're trying to preserve muscle in a cut, instead of just trying to hustle, to burn calories and lose weight, which is the common thought process when they're navigating towards what program to do and how to pair their nutrition and all that to it. It's like, how can I get all this off of me?

Starting point is 00:07:52 Instead of really focusing on still, strength training, still providing muscle building type programming, but now we're just adjusting our nutrition to be more. Plus, the side effect of having more muscle, as we said, I don't know, at least a thousand times on the show, is a faster metabolism and easier fat loss process. But yeah, if you're going on a cut, your goal should be to build muscle with your training.

Starting point is 00:08:19 In other words, do training that you know is either novel or different enough to where this is gonna stimulate some growth. Now, you may not, and you probably won't build muscle if you're in a calorie deficit, but because you're sending a build muscle signal, you'll lose less muscle. Or, at best, you'll keep what you've built

Starting point is 00:08:38 when you go on the cut. And that's the challenge. The challenge is, how do I keep my muscle as I get rid of body fat? And the best way to do that is to send a build muscle signal. There is no such thing as a keep muscle signal, right? You're the building or you're losing.

Starting point is 00:08:52 So build muscle, build muscle, drop the calories, and at the very least I minimize the amount of muscle. Yeah, we're speaking towards rep ranges right now, but this applies to even like, you know, novel stimulus can be different exercises. Totally. So I love to do both even, right? Okay, I'm gonna transition, you know, let's say I was running a five by five,

Starting point is 00:09:13 and then I'm gonna transition to a cut, like a great program, the transition into is like a map strong, where the first phase is 20 reps, right? Yeah, 20, I'm going from a five by five type of training, and not only am I gonna go, like, so let's, I'm going from a five by five type of training. And not only am I going to go, like, so let's say I'm running five by five and a ball type of style and I go to a cut, I'm going to not only transition out of a five by five,

Starting point is 00:09:33 very traditional type of training, I'm going to go to something that's a little more unconventional with different lifts that I'm not used to doing. And I'm going to be doing 20 rep range, like that's going to be such a novel stimulus that my body is going to start changing. I love to do something like that at the same time of changing the dog.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Now, there are potential psychological benefits from also doing traditional, you know, for lack of a better term, strength training or powerlifting style training in a deficit, a calorie deficit. Now, the detriment is what I said earlier. It's hard to be strong when your calories are low, but your energy also tends to be low. So long rest periods and low reps can sometimes make the workout more bearable. I've been in some calorie deficits where I'm getting my body fat down below five, you know, five, six percent, where your energy just, it's just not great. And I would do, you know, sets of four reps and I'd rest three minutes in between, and it was easier.

Starting point is 00:10:26 Now I wasn't lifting heavy because my calories are so low, but the rest periods made the workouts more bearable. So you want to consider that for yourself. Think to yourself like, what's going to be novel, what's going to stimulate muscle growth or at least preserve muscle? And then my psychology, and this is something that people don't consider enough,

Starting point is 00:10:44 what messes with me the most when I'm training or when I'm cutting or when I'm bulking? For me bulking never really messed with me because I was a skinny kid. So that's always a good time. Cutting would mess with me a little bit. And if I saw weight on the bar go down, that would, I would, I would get in my head for sure. It would get in my head and then I'd go up my calories and mess up the whole cut. But if I'm doing super sets anyway, I'm not going very heavy and I stop paying attention

Starting point is 00:11:08 the way anyway. So it works better for my psychology. It's not because it's a... I had to learn that. And that's really where I do lean more into, you know, higher rep and hypertrophy style training because it's just, again, I can lift a bit lighter weight, but again, get a total novel stimulus that I'm not programming typically, but when I'm in a cut, it fits perfectly. Yeah. You know, along the psychology point you're making with this, I think it's important even to talk about, like, not just the strength gains that you see that you lose sometimes, but also the way you look.

Starting point is 00:11:43 Like, that was the hurdle for me, because I was never the guy that's in the beginning of it. I never chased like PRs early on in my career. That I was never caught up in like my honestly, I wasn't, I didn't care that much about how strong I really was. I didn't like, I cared about how I looked. And what really messed with my head was when I go into a cut, I never would finish it, or this is early on I'm talking about, right? I would never finish it because I would swear I'm losing so much muscle because I would shrink down so much. And so yeah, maybe my waist went in a little bit too, but then like my arms, I felt like my arms got way smaller, my chest got small, the muscles.

Starting point is 00:12:19 So are your muscles pumped? Yeah, because you get to understand that, like your muscle bellies are full of carbohydrates and water and flu it So you have all this fluid and carbohydrates there if you deplete It sucks that out and if you're a taller bigger guy that's gonna be a that's a lot, right? And so you can your muscle bell is in the in the body building world. We call it looking flat Right, because you're not filled up with all this so being in a deficit Can cause you to have kind of this flat look for an extended period of time.

Starting point is 00:12:47 Especially in the beginning when you're losing some body fat but it's not enough to give you definition. So you just feel smaller. I used to refer to that as like the between haircut phase. You know when you're between haircuts when it's just like, or it's like that length where it's like the sucks. Yeah, it doesn't look good. It's not ready for a cut.

Starting point is 00:13:03 It's like the same thing when you're in this cutting way is you know you need to do these things to get to the goal that you want, but you kind of let your mind mess with you a little bit because you don't like the way you're looking. Yeah, you're heading to a direction you think you want to go to. And so it's a real mind fuck

Starting point is 00:13:20 when you don't understand what's happening. Same thing on the reverse. If you get somebody that's always, that's right. With being overweight, put them on a bulk. Yeah, and you're like, no, we got to speed up and tab. Let's put you on a bulk and they're like, oh, my legs feel tighter.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Am I still fitting tighter? I feel bigger or, you know, I would train a female client or a butt would build and she'd be like, my jeans feel tighter. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know if I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna cut my calories, like no, no, no, don't do that. It's really tough to get through that mental aspect.

Starting point is 00:13:47 So that's why I say consider that the most, I would say with your training. That's the most important thing because that's what keeps you consistent and in the game is that mental aspect, not just that the objective results necessarily, right? For the young insecure guy, like I was, the cared about the way he'd looked,

Starting point is 00:14:04 this is also why I was drawn to carb cycling so much, was because then I'd have this day where I would refeed, and it would fill my body back out. And reassure you. And it would reassure me like, okay. And then I would start, okay, stop looking at my days where I'm in a major calorie deficit and I'm depleted. And let's take pictures or mental pictures,

Starting point is 00:14:26 whatever of where I'm at, when I refeed and I get my pump. And I'm like, okay, that I like. But the days after following that when I have to cut a game, I didn't like that. So that's why I like the carb cycling. So it wasn't like this consistent depletion for a long period of extended period of time. I got to refeed and then kind of see like, okay, this is what I looked like when I'm all filled out.

Starting point is 00:14:47 Okay, I'm still heading the right direction. I thought that was a really good strategy for that reason. Yeah, totally. So I gotta tell you guys something funny that happened the other day with my 18 month old. So do you guys, so I think this might be a dad thing. So if my son cries over something that is, for lack of a return silly,

Starting point is 00:15:05 like he's trying to get your attention or he's like, you know, whatever. And it's hard not to giggle or laugh, Jessica gets mad at me because she's like, don't laugh, because he's sad or whatever. But I'm like, he's, you know, he's just doing it. Because he's like, it gets over some ridiculous reason.

Starting point is 00:15:18 Yeah, like he woke up and he was kind of in a bad mood and then, you know, I'm getting him food and he's doing this thing where he's kind of, kind of crying and then I kind of laugh a little bit, and then, you know, I'm getting him food, and he's doing this thing, which kind of kind of crying, and then I kind of laugh a little bit, like, come on, you're okay, right? But then he cries more because I'm doing that. So then I'm like trying to feed him, and he's like,

Starting point is 00:15:34 and then I put the fork next to his face with the food, he's like, and he opens his bell. I'm really, really, really, really, I just get it. I'm sad, but not too sad to eat. And then I feed him as he's crying, and I'm trying so hard not to laugh.

Starting point is 00:15:46 I've never done that with my kids. He was doing the same thing. He was like, ooh, and I took the bottom of his jaw and was like, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, it's like Chewbacca. It's hilarious. It's a dad thing, you know, but Jessica's like, he's gonna feel, and she's right, I get that too,

Starting point is 00:16:03 but I'm like, I mean, she's right, but so are you, right? Cause Katrina and I had the same battle on this and I think there's some value to having levity in a situation like that, don't you think? Like I feel like being playful about it and not reacting to every emotional response cause they're gonna be emotional and react to things

Starting point is 00:16:18 like all time. And if you're the parent who's always like overly sensitive cause they're crying all the time or you or the opposite extreme where you blow them off. I feel like having some levity around those situations sometimes there's some value to that. Why does value having two parents that right now, bounce that out?

Starting point is 00:16:34 But they're hopeful. Yeah, like the other day fell. He didn't hurt himself, right? But he fell and he kind of laid there and he looked around and then he saw that, like, you know, we were looking at him. So then he's like, you know, doing that thing and I'm like, oh, you're fine. I go and try and tickle him, I know, we were looking at him. So then he's like, you know, doing that thing. And I'm like, oh, you're, you know, you're fine. I go and try and tickle him, I was laughing or whatever.

Starting point is 00:16:48 Or crying. It's funny how quickly they're trained to know that that mom is the sensitive one and dad is not. And like those, like, when Max, anything happens like that with him, he bumps his head. Like I could be, we could be playing him and I. He bumps his head. He'll get up from me, walk across the house

Starting point is 00:17:02 to go find Katrina. And do this. Ooh. Yeah. It's cute, right? No, come on. Yeah from me, walk across the house to go find Katrina and do this. Oh, Yeah, Yeah, no, it's exist. Have you ever seen the video? It's an old video, but there's this kid and he's like, he's on the floor kind of crying or whatever. And so the dad, I think it's the dad of the mom is recording him. And they walk around the corner into another room and the kid stops crying. And then they walk around the corner, and then they see the mom or dad,

Starting point is 00:17:27 and they fall back down. And then you know, like three or four times, you know, run the house. I'm on you, rock, I'm on you. Dude, I can't figure out, and maybe one of our listeners has gone through this with their kid, but Max is going through this really weird phase

Starting point is 00:17:41 that we, like I thought it was gonna be short, but we're going on now, I think, a month of consistently every single night, dude, he's doing this, wraps himself in the, I mean, we've got now, we got rid of the confeder, we're now stripping him down to just like his diaper and either shirt or his pants, that's it. But as soon as we walk out,

Starting point is 00:18:01 he makes like a tent and covers himself and he falls asleep in like the tent and because he's breathing underneath there and the room's nice and cool. So he's cold if he's outside the sheets, but then he gets under there and he heats it all up and then he falls asleep and then I have to go in like 15 minutes later to pull it off

Starting point is 00:18:18 and he's drenched in sweat every night right now. Every night I have to go in there and right now what Katrina and I are trying to perfect is yeah, what do you do? Yeah, what exactly what do we do so the the best strategy? How is the sheet is knowing when he falls asleep like first of all one waiting till he's completely asleep because I don't want to go in there when he's still trying to go to sleep and then do that because then it just disrupts him and he's up So I got to wait till he's out, but I can't let him be out for too long because once he's under that sheet for 20 30 minutes He starts to sweat so we're like well having to watch the monitor like is he out? Okay, he's not movies now go in there. I go in there. Do put the sheets on the like put him in bed

Starting point is 00:18:54 But tuck the sheets in so tight that he can't pull them up, you know, so he's just kind of like a little sardine I mean what he does is he goes he burrows his way under oh So I'll go in there and he's all the way at one corner What he'll do whatever he can to get underneath the sheets. And then it's interesting. It's so, and you know, I've been around kids my whole life and I've just never seen this before. Yeah, I've seen that.

Starting point is 00:19:12 It's the weird, it's the weird, and he's not crying or anything. It's just, he thinks it's funny. I feel safe. I, yeah, it's gotta be soothing. Like it's, really it's just this thing where I'll put him down and I'll put the, like a teddy bear next to him with that, he put him down and I'll put the like a teddy bear next to him With everything he'll lay there and I'll leave the room and then what he does is he he on the mattress

Starting point is 00:19:29 You'll like do this he'll start like head banging on the mattress with the sad dish. I'm like, what is he doing? Yeah, and he put some down self to sleep like that. I'm like do put some pillows around and make sure he's anything It's like what I wonder about that because they have those gravity the heavy blanket some people really love that just because of like the The press so we have one of those yeah, so we have one of those. Yeah. So we have one of those too. Like so he's got that. You know, I, so I've been playing this game with him since he was little. Of course Katrina blends in on me, right? So I've been, uh, that's how it works in a relationship. It's the any bad behavior. So it's a top. It's somebody's fault. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:00 You taught him this. You know, I'm sorry. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I started a long time ago where I get to blanket and I tell him, come on, hide, hide, let's hide. And then we get out of the blanket. And so it's like it's fair thing to do. It is love and we keep a big blanket on the love sack. And that's part of my routine.

Starting point is 00:20:20 I come in the house, wash my hands, go to the bathroom and then he's normally down there. And right away, he wants the wrestle. We always end up on the love sack. If we land on the love sack, he knows right away. Grab the blanket. And he wants to hide. And then he just likes to play underneath the blanket, him and I, you know, and we're wrestling and tickling and doing talking and doing our thing or reading books under there. Like, he loves to hide under the blanket. And so, but it's never made its way into bedtime. It's always been this kind of playful time

Starting point is 00:20:45 that we him and I do and we love to do it. And then just recently, it's become this thing that he does on his own when he's in there. And it was cute and funny the first time, but it's like, oh shit, he's doing this every night now. And it's causing him to be soaked. I go in there and I had to like strip all the clothes off of him.

Starting point is 00:21:03 And he's like, brother, he you found Narnia in there. What are you doing, buddy? He's like, oh, so hot. Why do you like that? Yeah. Kids are hilarious. Yeah, random. Did your son do this too when they're little

Starting point is 00:21:14 and you're changing their diaper or whatever and if you turn away or whatever, they run away and they're just naked, run through the house? It's the funniest thing. I let him do that. Katrina gets mad. That's another Katrina gets on the meabods. It's the funniest. I think it's the funniest, too. It. That's another that Katrina gets on the Meebods. It's the funny dude.

Starting point is 00:21:25 I think it's the funniest dude. It's like a one and a half or two year old, running a house. Make it butt, make it butt, make it butt. Yeah, yeah. And then I chase him around the house and she's like, he's gonna piss on the carpet. He's gonna clean it.

Starting point is 00:21:34 Has he done that yet? Did you figure it out? How did he do that? In fact, one of the first times that she was getting on to me about that. And I'm like, oh, he's fine. I like came around the corner. He's standing there holding his dick.

Starting point is 00:21:44 Just, just for the carpet., oh, he's fine. I like came around the corner. He's standing there holding this dick. Just, just put a carpet. All right, mommy's right. I had a buddy who his son tried, it was trying to draw circles and triangles on the carpet with his pee. Wow. Yeah, and so his dad was like, he's an artist and impressed.

Starting point is 00:22:01 Yeah, I don't know. That's not bad, buddy. Yeah. We just had to, I told you guys, like he was sick last week and he did like the whole vomiting thing and he said I was sorry and everything like that. So when we did that, I stripped everything, obviously stripped our bed down and I cleaned,

Starting point is 00:22:16 by the way, the, the Euler mat is so easy to clean and stuff. But since I was doing that anyways, I didn't know that there's like, you can use either side of the uler pad. And flip it. Yeah, and the side I was using is the side that it looks like that's the way it's supposed to go, but the opposite side, they say if you wanted to get cooler to use faster to use that side.

Starting point is 00:22:40 What? Yes, it's the reverse. I didn't know that. It looks upside down. I didn't know that either. I can't remember where I read it or how. By the way, do you know what the best temperature for sleep is? I've just, I've been looking up like, I can get gas. I would have 50, 72.

Starting point is 00:22:53 65. Oh, is it? Oh, 50, 75. For most people, of course, is going to be, you know, variance or whatever. 65. I don't know. They've identified it. 65 degrees in the room generally produces the best REM sleep

Starting point is 00:23:06 and consistent sleep. Is that right there? I just know that's my number. So is that where you like to be? Yeah, like 65s. I like to be. What do you guys say? You guys set your chili, your chili suit?

Starting point is 00:23:17 I think 55 or 52s, the lowest it goes. I go all the way to the all the way there. I usually do it like on the super low. And then as before bad, I kind of bring it up. Have you guys, I ask you this before, and and I think you one of you guys started doing this Have you done it where you get it to slowly warm up to wake you up? I have my phone run though. I feel like it would make me need to pee like real bad Well, I just wakes you up. Will you spray to pee in your bed?

Starting point is 00:23:38 I will pee before I even get there. Oh my bad. No I sensitive like well I even like I like it For like weekends when I don't have to get out of my bed, right away, it's nice to kind of lay around and it's actually warm in the bed. So, it does wake you up though. Oh yeah, no, it definitely, I mean, I wake up, if I get, I go up a degree, like I'm so, we didn't have the pad on there

Starting point is 00:23:59 for a couple days while I was washing and stuff. And so, I had the doors open, I left the room one night, Katrina was like, you left last night, the door was open. It was, I was like, yeah, And so I had the doors open, I left the room one night, Katrina was like, you left last night, the door was open, and it was, I was like, yeah, it's still got hot, huh? She's like, Jesus, I was freezing, how are you hot? I'm like, it doesn't take much more.

Starting point is 00:24:12 Where were we, where were you shared? Oh, we were in Arizona. Yeah, it just reached the end. What an asshole, bro, we get in. No, we get into the, you get shared rooms. What do you do? No, it's a per-room.

Starting point is 00:24:21 What do you get into hotel? You turn AC on. Hold on a second, hold on a second. First of all, there were two rooms. It's, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no'm like, damn, dude, this AC is still going, whatever. So we leave, we do the event, we come back. And I'm like, holy, it is cold in here. And then I looked at Adam, like, did you turn the thing down? He's like, he turned it on Arctic versus. He put it, he put it to the coldest.

Starting point is 00:24:58 I do, when I go to hotels, I put it the lowest it will go. It's ridiculous. Some are, some are, I'm going to get out of here too. I know it. And maybe that's what it is too, some are too bad at me. I'm not. I know. And maybe that's what it is too, because I can't do it at home. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:08 I can't run the house that cold at home because Katrina doesn't like it that cold. And so I only, I do, I mean, Arizona, I mean Arizona, I'm like I have to put like a sweatshirt on and go back. It's too much, dude. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:20 What is going on? Yeah, I just, I mean, I sleep, so I like like, like because you know, her argument or like she always says back, but why don't you just sleep with just a sheet? I've never, I mean, I'm like the yeah, I just I mean I so I like like because you know her argument or like she always says back Why don't you just sleep with just a sheet? I've never I mean I'm like the gravity blanket guy I like a little bit of weight. You know what the monsters get you if you don't have I'm not sure what it is she

Starting point is 00:25:34 Well Courtney still makes fun of me for having to have the the closet door closed like I've refused to have any doors open really Yeah, you don't like the monsters you Like yeah I refuse to have any doors open. Really? Yeah. You don't like this. This is the monster's gonna get you. Like, yeah! Man what? You know, like, yeah, there's a fear there. I don't like my feet being outside the sheet either. Yeah. If my feet are outside the sheet.

Starting point is 00:25:56 Oh no, actually, yeah. I can't have them like pin. No, no, no, no, no. You know, but I don't like them not covered. Because they have to have them covered. Yeah, like something's gonna touch my feet. What's going to happen? That's right. I don't want to do that. Anyway I'm covered. Yeah, like someone's gonna touch my feet. What's going to happen? That's right.

Starting point is 00:26:05 I don't want to do that. Anyway, did you guys hear about the oldest person in the world just called the 119, right? 119. That's crazy. Is it a record? Or like, so it gets weird, right? Because there's so many cultures

Starting point is 00:26:18 that claim like certain people, but they don't have like real documents of their birth and in all of that. So it's like, they're just kind of guessing like the DR and some of that, that they're like that because there's like baseball players that used to, they used to come over and people were like, well, there's like 16 years old. Yeah. He's like 20. He's got full beard. Yeah. He's like, he's the, he's the, he's the elementary high school, the elementary, like champion. Or like that. You look at him. And then they beat the crap out of all the little

Starting point is 00:26:46 figures, like 220. You know, you're like, no, no, no, this is, she was, she was documented, right? So Japan has good birth records and stuff. So because you're right, there's a lot that are like, oh, they're 120, 135, and it's like, right. Where's the document here?

Starting point is 00:27:00 Let's verify that. But this 119 years old, so she was born in 1903. So let's just consider real quick, like, and testify that. But this 119 years old, so she was born in 1903. So let's just consider real quick, like, what you see in the wisdom world history, she's gone through it. First of all, in 1903, maybe Doug, you can look this up, was Japan operating as, like, were they feudalistic in 1903?

Starting point is 00:27:19 Like, because I know they went through a period of samurai and all that still. Well, they went through a period of modernization that made them more, I guess, quote, unquote Western. But before that, it was very different and they were run very differently. So I'd love to see what it looked like in 1903. But she saw, you know, she saw several pant, like crazy pandemics, right? Blue pandemics.

Starting point is 00:27:41 She saw World War One, World War Two, the Great Depression, like went through all this stuff and was crazy to see all that stuff. So feudalism stopped in Japan in 1871. Okay, okay. So she was, when she was alive, it was gone. But still, very different world in the United States. Now I don't know how she got to see. So did you look, I mean, what I hear so much that because there's people, there's some people that I would never want to live that long. I would. I mean, so long as I have my health, right?

Starting point is 00:28:10 Like I would not want to be, you know, I hooked up to a machine. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be hooked into a machine at Bedridden for 20 of those, you know, 20 of those years, that'd be awful. But so do you know how active she was up into her death? I mean, was she a relatively active person? Or was she Bedridden for many years? It says here, so it's what it said about us. It's pretty cool, right? So when she was 19,

Starting point is 00:28:30 she got married and helped run a family business selling sticky rice, udon, and Japanese desserts. She had four kids and adopted a fifth. She loved chocolate and soda. That's always saying to get chocolate. That's all we get. That's it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Who lives that long is genetics, genetics play a massive role. Of course. And they're all, by the way, they're always women. By the way, guys don't live, they just outlive us for sure. Is that always true? I know, I know generally speaking, it's true. The oldest men in the world live in Sardinia.

Starting point is 00:29:16 Sardinia's got the oldest men, but generally speaking, when you get to, when you get past 90, like, have you guys ever volunteered like a nursing home? Have you guys ever done that? Is trainers? It's dominated by women, like almost all women and they're old women.

Starting point is 00:29:33 That's right, that's like that. There's a comedy they made about that, like because the guy, the one or two guys that are there are like, they have like all the women get all excited. What movie was that, Doug? I feel like you've seen it. I mean, there's Morgan Freeman and Jack Nicholson, I believe. And who's the guy from fugitive? What's his name? Oh, yeah. He's the other guy. It's in it. Tommy. Yes. Oh, Tommy Lee Jones. I think it's those three, right?

Starting point is 00:29:55 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forget the name of it. By the way, that's true. I trained a woman who was at her. Yeah, that's her. I mean, she looks pretty good right there. Now that's 119. She looks like she's, I would say 80s or 90 right now. I looks like it's 117 when this picture is not a joke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So you guys think that in our lifetime, our generation, do you think we're going to see that is this going to become more more frequent? I mean, and how, how much more frequent are we? Depends how much advanced. I've heard both. I've heard, I've heard people say like, you know,

Starting point is 00:30:23 statistically there's more people living longer today than there ever were. Yes, but extreme age Yes, I don't know because does that is not what's stretching it out in terms of offsetting the average? Well, what you have now are more less people dying at birth, so that changes the average age of death And people are living longer generally speaking. However, I've also read that we can expect the how long people live to start to slow down or start to go backwards because of obesity and chronic disease. Yeah, but that's because we take it as an average, though, right? Because we're using, like I'm more interested in the outliers, because I like that I would like the thing that we will be some of the outliers of the, when you compare us to our peers.

Starting point is 00:31:07 Throw cyborgs in the mix or what? No, no, no, no, no. Just getting started is the name of the game. Yeah, yeah, never saw that. Yeah, Jack Nicholson was in this one. Oh, I was thinking of bucket list. I knew you were on the right track, though. You knew it.

Starting point is 00:31:20 I know you knew where you're talking to. By the way, this is true. I trained an 83 year old woman who she was in a nursing home. And she used to tell me there were two guys in there in the whole place. And she's like, oh yeah, they date all the way. That's how I think this is, right? I think there's literally two guys

Starting point is 00:31:36 and one of them is the new guy. The third guy is like the new guy. And they're like, what the, you know, she's like, this is a 75, I trained a guy that was like 75. And his whole goal was that he could dance better I was a 75, I trained a guy that was like 75, and his whole goal was that he could dance better and have muscle to kind of show off. And so we just straight train

Starting point is 00:31:54 and he was just doing it to basically peacock around. And get attention, they work. The stories that they would tell me, like she said she said she would meet up, they would meet up and then they'd like take baths together and stuff like that. And I'm like, what? You would, you guys make it in the back.

Starting point is 00:32:12 I'm making it. She's like, no, old I am. I don't care if I'm whatever. I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys are crazy. Wild, that's good. So if you live long enough, like, I don't, yeah. So you don't get in the action now,

Starting point is 00:32:22 the longer you live, the more you're on, it's the better you're on. So you not think our circle of friends are us, right? Like, you don't think that what do you think is going to be our? Are we going to fall closer to the 80 range or do you think we'll land in the hundred? Boy, the advancements in medicine right now are really interesting and they're really investigating aging, the aging process. So there could be a breakthrough that could get us to the point

Starting point is 00:32:47 where the average person is living to 120, 130, which would be wild. But you know, we have to rewrite so many things. Like right now people retire it. What's the retirement age to get social security 62? 62 or 65. They're gonna have to change that. I mean, they kinda already are.

Starting point is 00:33:03 It's becoming more and more popular to work as you get older. Well, if you live till you're 90 and you're healthy, you know, that's like 25, 30 years without working, that when they set that, by the way, the life expectancy was in 60s. So it's like you retired in the last five years, you know, five years until you're dead. I honestly think the whole idea of retirement is kind of weird anyways. I agree. I don't think the idea of- I've been a big fan of it. This idea of like do something you hate for, you know,

Starting point is 00:33:28 30 years of your life so you can then retire and do nothing. I didn't do nothing. Yeah, I do nothing. I think it was such a bad strategy. Yeah. I mean, if you're gonna, if you have to do something that you don't like temporarily during that time, I'm like in pursuit of trying to find things

Starting point is 00:33:43 that I want to do for work. You know what I'm saying? So like, we'll do an old man part of that. You mean, it's in purpose that way. It's like, yeah, that's the biggest struggle for you. Like watching my dad or somebody else who just retired, you know, not too long ago. It's like just getting them to be energized to go do something and it's totally over and after all. Both my best friends' dads went through like a little bit of depression right now. Yeah, my dad remodeled a lot more bickering and fights. He remodeled the house and did stuff to the backyard

Starting point is 00:34:12 And like so many times because he's just at home and in order to do yeah Then I go to the house and my mom's old school so the house is spotless But now it's like level 10 because now my dad's my dad's home and he's like mopping, scrubbing, cleaning him. I'm almost like, man, he does everything. But it's because you didn't have, you didn't know what you loved it. But now what he did is he found a group of friends and they ride their motorcycles together. And so now he's got these friends that he goes and they ride with.

Starting point is 00:34:38 And now there's a good and bad. The good is he's got friends riding motorcycles. The bad is my dad. He likes to go fast. And so he's already had a couple like close calls or whatever. Yeah. And I'm like, dad, you can't be racing.

Starting point is 00:34:52 You motorcycle, dude. That's good. You guys just reminded me talking about like work and potentially working for longer period of our life with that. There's a lot of companies that are, and we've seen this, we've talked about it on the show before that are trying to reframe how the work week kind of looks.

Starting point is 00:35:07 And we just recently got our investor email with Elemente. Did you guys see what they're doing? No, we're talking about that. What are they doing? So Doug, you can fact check me to make sure. I'm pretty sure this is how, if I'm understanding it correctly, but they're doing a three one work cycle.

Starting point is 00:35:26 So work three, take one off, work three, take one. Three weeks, one week off. Wait, is it three weeks, seven days a week? I think so. Wait a minute, just kidding. And then you put you get a whole week every month of like, so you could go take vacations and you could do like every month.

Starting point is 00:35:40 So you work seven days a week. Yes. So 21 days straight, and then you take seven days off. Now, if I don't, okay, so here's how I feel initially, because I'm trying to think about this. If I don't have kids, I would like that. Because in a week I'll go do stuff. But with kids, I like to have those days off.

Starting point is 00:35:55 But even with kids, now every month, you could take a week long vacation. Yeah, but I'd rather have weekends, every week with the kids, because of the frequency. You know what I mean? Like three weeks for kids a long time to not have like all day with them. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:36:08 That's how I mean, I could see what you're saying, but. That was really interesting as I haven't heard anybody else doing that. Like we've heard the all 21 days in a row. So they do something. Yeah, if I believe I understood it correctly, it was 21 days straight and then the next seven days off

Starting point is 00:36:25 of completely interesting, right? I mean, it's worth an experiment, I guess. That's it. Like I said, if I didn't have kids, I would love that. I would love that. No, I, you know, I first, I was like, oh, that would suck.

Starting point is 00:36:36 Right away, the first year, I thought I was like, man, having to work straight twin, but then I was like, you know, how many times in my life I've worked 21 day straight? Like, 30, 40, 60 days. And every time you're on, like, one of those like, little short vacations, man, like a 30, 40, 60. And every time you're on one of those like little short vacations, man, was she gonna stretch this out?

Starting point is 00:36:46 Well, and imagine how easy it would be to grind for 21 days. If you knew at the end of that 21 days, you always had a week off. That would be really, really interesting. And I'm sure there's productivity would be the one, the main gain. Well, that's what they think is they think

Starting point is 00:37:02 that they're seeing people are way more productive. Like it takes a couple days to get in the swing of projects. That way they can be focused for 21-day straight with no breaks to get away ahead. And then they get to take the walk. I feel like startup companies do that anyway, but they don't take that week break. Well, they get the zone and they get projects done. I'm going to spur. Imagine if you did it like, what do you call that were schools do this,

Starting point is 00:37:26 where they're like everyone's on different tracks. So imagine if you have 50 employees. Oh, that's what they'd have to do. And they rotate it. And then they're all roti. So as an employer, you never not have work being done on your business. Now, if you have a partner,

Starting point is 00:37:40 you just have different segments. If you have a partner, you'd have to have a similar schedule, right? Because you have a week off, your wife works normal schedule. Like, what are you gonna do? Well, I guess I'll be, you know, I'll go on my own somewhere. Or so I could see how... It can have his benefits too.

Starting point is 00:37:53 I could see, I could see. I could see. And that's a bad thing. So I was like, and the worst, the worst, the cause. The worst, the cause. You guys have kids, where are you gonna go? You're gonna be on the way. So you can go fishing.

Starting point is 00:38:02 No. All right, listen, you know what this sounds like? It sounds like it's scheduled that would attract the single go getter. That's what it sounds like. Sure. So without saying, we only want a single go getter. I mean, element T is a startup. So I mean, that's probably what they're, that they want to attract.

Starting point is 00:38:22 I do agree with you. It would be a different dynamic to try and figure out for us where we're at, in our lives, and with our families. Maybe I wouldn't enjoy it that much. Whatever. Obviously I would rather have what we have created for ourselves. But, you know, if I was working for somebody,

Starting point is 00:38:34 like, wow, that would be an interesting way to run my schedule as three weeks on and then one week off like that. I wish I had the article, but I did see something along the lines of like, Gen Z having a really hard time coming back to work out of all the generations in terms of like the remote working and now coming back like a lot of them. I guess they're having a really hard time pulling that specific demographic back to work. Oh, sure. Wow. I know. It's so crazy.

Starting point is 00:39:03 I mean, come on. Well, they, they Well, that age group hasn't built the consistency of working in the first place, right? I mean, we've been saying mentality. Yeah, they barely just started getting into the work force a couple of years ago, you know, and already within the first five years, they get a two year break. So they've been breaking as much as they've been working. So, yeah, so of course course it's hard to go back. Hey, and the government's gonna send me a jacket for a couple of weeks.

Starting point is 00:39:28 This whole work thing's wow. That's makes sense. Yeah, I don't know. Did you look it up, Doug, to see if they actually publicly announced it, because maybe it was just something for us investors to get the same. And I'll just say it. I do.

Starting point is 00:39:39 Oops. It's an experiment. It is an experiment. Yes, they're gonna try it for, well, I think their plan is six month period of time, but if it's not. Yes, they're going to try it for, well, I think their plan is six month period of time, but if it's not going well, they're going to pull the plug. So I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:39:49 I'm not supposed to talk about it. Who knows? Here's my speculation. I don't know. Here's my speculation. I love element. I think they're a great company. Obviously, we invested in the company

Starting point is 00:39:57 because we like them so much. But here's my speculation. You can't legally say we want young, single, aggressive people working here. You can't say say, we want young, single, aggressive people working here. You can't say that, right? We can do this, create a schedule that makes it attractive to them and not attractive to them. Well, companies have been doing this forever, I think. I mean, that was the- Because like married people with kids, you didn't-

Starting point is 00:40:17 You didn't watch the amber crumby doc, did you? I watched half. Okay, so the part that I was- there was a lot of things that was interesting to me, but the part that I thought was so fascinating was they were, I actually thought that Google and Netflix and Facebook were the pioneers of the campus ping pong, Fougeball vibe were you just basically live there. Yeah, you just want to stay at work all day long. Amber Krombe was first to do that. They did. I did not know that. They built this big party, yes. I didn't know that they did that first.

Starting point is 00:40:49 You know what I thought was cool is the way they designed the stores. I didn't even think about this. They put those brilliant, those blinds. Was that not brilliant? So you can't really see inside. You have built in the stores. You know, yeah, they feel very exclusive.

Starting point is 00:41:00 And you made you want to come in there. And then they, I mean, God, they structure it to have all the pretty people at the front that are talking to you and stuff like that. I thought it was brilliant what they did with the models. So all the pictures. Oh, you saw who the CEO favored the most. Yeah. I didn't see that.

Starting point is 00:41:15 Yeah, you had a definite type. Well, that, so I knew that there was, they had some, they had some drama like that, right? That had, that had came out and I didn't, I couldn't remember what it was. That's what drew me to the documentary. I was talking to Trino. I was like, yeah, there was some shit with that, right? That had came out and I couldn't remember what it was. That's what drew me to the documentary. I was talking to Trino. I was like, yeah, there was some shit with the founder was doing some stuff. Well, what was weird was like, they tried really hard

Starting point is 00:41:33 to, whenever they're promoting with the models in terms of the look and aesthetic and all that, they were trying to mirror that in the stores, which they could have just had regular people working in the stores and been just fine. But he's trying really hard to have it. The same Zoolander dudes in there. So I really want it sad to watch this because I really wanted to get into a little bit of a

Starting point is 00:41:57 political talk around it because there's this of like companies having to be this pressure for companies to be so socially responsible and really the you know From a capitalist view. It's your job is to make money and to be really good and allow the market to dictate the market We'll tell you if you're doing a shitty job right and and and so there was a lot of like out like you know back lash from everything that happened with them It's like I also think that was it because of the sex appeal that they're selling It was all it means a lot of like I guess there wasn't much diversity and so then they got so the preppy white Kids that was they're targeting that was their target did you see how old the company was yeah the company is 1800s. Yeah, I didn't know that I was like was like, wow, I didn't know this company was right. And it was, it was, so I mean,

Starting point is 00:42:48 he went over to some presidents that were, that used to shop there. And you know what I will say today, it would be the market pressure might not allow something like that, right? So, you know, in the past, like, let's look at airlines, for example, airlines in the past would put these attractive girls in short shorts or dresses as the steward, you know, as the people working in the past would put these attractive girls in short shorts or dresses as the Stewart, you know, as the people working in the airplane. And I don't know if that, that

Starting point is 00:43:09 wouldn't fly, no pun intended today because people are kind of like, I disagree with that. Like, I mean, I mean, not, I didn't just agree with your point of disagree with why, why we make such a big deal about that because it opens the door for somebody else to do the opposite. I'm going to be the airline that's going to be super inclusive and let everybody in. No, I know that, let the airline that's going to be super inclusive and let everybody know. I know that let the companies out competing. That's not trying to be more like that instead of having to have this homogenized perspective of like how companies should run.

Starting point is 00:43:35 This is how I thought about the ambercrombie. No, I agree with you. What I'm trying to say is I think the market would respond negatively now because people would highlight that. Totally. So I think I think it would work necessarily unless it kind of slipped on the radar. But that's to me that that was a point of bringing this up was because that's I think that's unfortunate. Oh, allow allow you know, if they're going to be idiots like that, but that is the market.

Starting point is 00:43:56 What do you mean that allowed was it? Were they were they getting sued? Yeah. Yeah. And to force them, they put in all kinds of policies to force them to have to have this diversity. I mean, you have the higher to department called the like a diversity executive position. I think we would be. And that person's job was to create more diversity within the company.

Starting point is 00:44:14 There's positions in companies now that that's their job. Yeah, but you know what's to make sure they actually equal balance of diversity. I get the intent in the sentiment. So do I agree with it, but what happens is you actually create a lot of problems. Yeah, but a better way to do that is go create a company that competes with it and that has all the diversity you want. Yeah, right. So like if this company isn't doing it, you think that's unfair or right, well, go create

Starting point is 00:44:34 a company that has that and competes with it. And there will be a lot of people that, especially in today's and age, you'll be like, I want to go with that. I think you people would be surprised that the market would probably respond in a way that we would expect it to. And that was the thing. I didn't like, I understand like the most valuable protest to that is to just not put money in that direction,

Starting point is 00:44:55 stop buying the clothes. And then like you're teaching them a lesson. It's not like they have a monopoly on, you know, jeans and t-shirts. Well, look, then it was like, I mean, the market was demanding a certain look. Think of it this way, right? There was that whole controversy.

Starting point is 00:45:08 There was the baker, the Christian baker that didn't want to bake the cake for the gay wedding, and they tried to sue him and pass along. And I thought that was silly. I'm like, he's a baker. It's his work. He could say no to you and he could be an asshole. By the way, you can be pro gay and still not for that

Starting point is 00:45:23 at the same time, too. Sure, I understand that. Yeah. Look, I have no problem. You want to get married and whatever. And I've been to my friends' weddings who were gay and it's not a big deal. But if he or she is making the cake, and they say, I don't want to make it for you, for whatever reason, even if it's an asshole reason, that's up to them.

Starting point is 00:45:40 But I also think that the market today would respond in a way that we would expect it to. And what I mean by that is if you allow the bakers to be open, no gay cakes here, they're probably not gonna do very well. They'll serve some people, but they're probably not gonna do very well if they're openly like that, you know what I'm saying? 100% agree.

Starting point is 00:45:58 So I think that that, and I do think that. That's why I said, I'm putting regulations in, causing these superficial position. It would auto corrected, is my thought, yeah, totally. Yeah, because it, I mean, I'm putting regulations in, causing these, these, these superficial positions. It was all corrected, is my thought. Yeah, totally. Yeah, because it, I mean, but it, it was, it was pretty much like on the forefront.

Starting point is 00:46:12 It was obvious. Yeah. You know, that was their, their demographic, their target. Like, they literally had it like outline, like, specifically what people need to look like, like, the whole thing. I, I, I, I understand the experience I experienced as a gym operator. And this was a tough thing, right? Like, okay, when I was a 17 year old boy looking for a gym

Starting point is 00:46:33 membership, I drove there was and there was probably within a 30 minute drive from where I lived, there was probably 20 something gyms. In my buddy and I, we were 17 year old teenage boys. We went around and the thing that made our decision, okay, did it have a basketball court and were the front desk girls hot. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:50 That was what I was looking for. Now, I know I'm not alone with those criteria for buying. So because somebody decides to appeal to me by doing that, now they can get in huge trouble for that. Well, I also think I watched Baywatch. that. Well, I also watch Baywatch. Well, obviously. I also think, again, markets now are a little different. I wonder how well Hooters is doing, for example.

Starting point is 00:47:13 Hooters at one point was probably really powerful. Sex always sells. But I bet you there haven't done as well, because it's not. Well, here's my theory. Is that I don't like to see that. I don't think Amber Crombie dies today. Well, it hasn't, it's my theory is that I don't I would like to see that. I don't think I don't think Amber Cromby dies today Well, it hasn't it's still around. I don't think that it What would happen is just it would open the door for someone to compete with them because there's there is okay

Starting point is 00:47:33 There's a bunch of people that don't give a shit and like going there and seeing the hot kids that are working there And it is what it is and they're gonna continue to shop there And then there's a group of people that they didn't even think about that That's not important. They like the style the clothes and opens the door for competitors who are not going to be inclusive or exclusive and be inclusive. And that kid's going to go, Hey, you know what? I like what this other brand stands for and they offer competitive clothes just like it. I'm now going to shop there.

Starting point is 00:47:58 So it opened the door for somebody else. I don't think it would kill. Yeah. Look at that. It's a hooters is totally in decline. I mean, restaurant is not in decline, right now in the last two years. That's what I would guess though. 2021 article.

Starting point is 00:48:09 Yeah, well, I would guess though that it's just, you know, the market, the, it's quite a something less biased there. Markets change in public opinion changes, right? 30 years ago, going to a restaurant called Hooters with girls, whatever, not a big thing. Today, it feels kind of cringey, right? Like, what are we doing here? Well, you know what,

Starting point is 00:48:27 I'm big Johnson T-shirts float around anymore. Yeah, so those are classic, dude. Those are classic. I forgot about that. Please, one of those. I love big Johnson shirts, I was a kid. I can't, I totally forgot about that. I love those.

Starting point is 00:48:38 My mom wouldn't let me have them. I wanted them so bad. Well, here, speak, remember no fear and big Johnson was like the day I'd be like. And there was the one with the two by four, right? They do have the big two. I mean, there's tons of them. I like the remember, no fear and big Johnson was like the one of the two by four, right? They do have the big I'm in the air like the driver. Yeah, the way too big.

Starting point is 00:48:49 We know you're doing. All right. So along the lines of regulation and stuff, I don't know if you guys heard this, but the department of Homeland Security is now putting together a disinformation governance board or try, they're talking about doing this, to make sure that disinformation and social media. You mean to fuck with Elon Musk? Thank you.

Starting point is 00:49:09 That's the real thing. You mean to mess with Elon Musk? It's so weird. You don't want this. Listen, the number one purveyor of propaganda and false information is government, this historically true. Don't, you don't want to put him in charge of telling you what is necessarily true and untrue.

Starting point is 00:49:26 That's not a good idea. It's not a good idea. Now, how will this work, too? Because I mean, he's what's amazing, what's so great about this deal is that he's taking this from being a publicly traded company to now a private company. So what are those regulations and rules applied to all businesses or is it going to be just towards publicly traded? If it's, if it's department of Homeland Security, and remember, we passed laws after September 11th

Starting point is 00:49:50 that allows these sweeping regulations in the safety of the country, right? Quotun Quot, which opens the door for all kinds of crazy stuff. So they could say, hey, this is for national security. We need to regulate disinformation on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and who's going to determine if it's good or bad information we are, or the guys that are the people. We know all the things. I do not think this is a good idea at all. This is like when the Rolling Stones hired the angels to be the angels. The hell's angels would be their security, ended up stabbing somebody or whatever.

Starting point is 00:50:25 Like it's gonna, it'll be worse than if we allow markets and these companies to do that. And that's not gonna be perfect, it's still gonna exist. But, you don't think that, like, that's gonna get manipulated in a certain direction. I'm not, humans are biased. You need both sides always. You need that conversation to continuously happen

Starting point is 00:50:46 to know what truth is. You don't know what truth is just because I said so. I love the fact that they're gonna make this so difficult for Elon Musk and he's still gonna kick the shit out of everybody. Well, I mean, hope so. Yeah, you just watched it. Yeah, the government coming out of me, I don't like that.

Starting point is 00:51:03 They're gonna continue to make it as difficult as they possibly can for him, and he still will watch. He will. If he really becomes a target, he's done. I mean, that's the truth. They've taken out, and they'll do it in a way to where we won't even, we will be supportive of it.

Starting point is 00:51:18 Because, I don't care. So, business week did this stupid post. I comment on it. Like, it was Nancy Pelosi coming out and like bashing Elon buying Twitter and basically saying, I can't believe we're letting this billionaires. She's my favorite. And business week, I know, right? Business week was, you know, kind of taking that boy, you should have seen the comments

Starting point is 00:51:36 underneath there. Elon has got a following man of people that really, really, like, I mean, I know we've come off that way, right? It being these massive fans of Elon Musk. but I don't know the guy personally. I don't. I know he could be an asshole. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:51 Like again, if he's principled and he does what he says, he will do. You don't see that a lot. Listen, I like the shakeup. I like the shakeup. So what? Okay. There 100% big tech is biased in a direction. It's a fact.

Starting point is 00:52:04 And you can look and see where their employees donate. You can see what gets censored and what doesn't get censored. In their defense though, Sal, I want to make the point that I don't think that's because of their founders though. They're a jack or see was not like that. I don't believe Zuckerberg was like that. Most of these guys are libertarian type of dudes. They're one free market.

Starting point is 00:52:21 I think they've been pressured in that from the loud minority to go in that Dresden. So you know, it's kind of unfair to umbrella like Facebook or Twitter or these disease like. Look, here's what's interesting. Twitter sells to you. The deal goes through, right? So he's about to buy it. The next couple days, all these scrambling, all these conservative people on Twitter, all these pages are mysteriously getting 50,000 100,000 half a million new followers as if shadow banning or their shadow bands got lifted what I think when you have 18,000 employees you can't manage all of them so some of them are gonna they're gonna turn the knob here a little bit knob there a little bit based on

Starting point is 00:53:01 what they like what they don't like make it so that it's not super obvious I've been shadow ban on Instagram many times it was weird and nobody could find me like what's going on. So I don't know. I like the fact that you see my R.E. post, the video of R.E. from a garage. It says Elon Musk walking into Twitter the first day. It's a scene from R.E. is the paintball gun. He's just firing everybody. Oh, yeah. That's gonna be a good time. Oh, I'm excited. I think it's gonna be fun to watch.

Starting point is 00:53:31 Well, it's hard to argue that you haven't seen a complete bias on all platforms. Like, it's just so blatantly obvious. And now, all of a sudden, it's like there may be a chance to hear other voices like contribute to the conversation. I just get, it's so weird to me that people

Starting point is 00:53:51 are so adamant to stuff that out. Like obviously it's great when it fits your bias. I know this has become very politicized, but I'm at the part that I am excited about. I mean, I just think he's just brilliant when it comes to building business. I wanna watch the business. He's created several billion dollar businesses.

Starting point is 00:54:06 Yeah, and when they compared, I saw this thing where they compared like Twitter, Google, and like the average income of the employees, so like that. And Twitter compared to all these other tech companies. Oh, it was how much revenue per employee was produced. Yeah, and Twitter was bad. Really bad.

Starting point is 00:54:21 Like a bloated company. And so I can't wait to see how much better he makes this company by going in and and freeing up something just do some real basic smart shit just to balance things out so people don't think you guys are one I'm gonna look I'll talk about a conservative that really annoyed me recently which is governor DeSantis who has acting very much like an authoritarian obviously Disney so here's what happened, right? Disney made some political commentary on a on a bill that he passed. So all of a sudden now they're

Starting point is 00:54:56 changing their status that it's been enacted since 1967 to apply pressure on Disney, threatened to sue Twitter because of their, you know, fiduciary duties, you know, whatever. This is all political power and an authoritarian way. I don't like that either. And what it does is when the right does it, then the left does it, and then the right does it. And what you call, I don't like it when it's dominated one direction. Well, call this a few days ago, as soon as he did it, the minute it came out

Starting point is 00:55:16 and we laughed about it, you said I don't like it. And you said this is what it's gonna stoke is the opposite direction and you were right. Today it already came out. The people are talking about, oh, well, you know who else gets special tax privileges, churches. We need to look at that as well. So what happens is you move the bar up a little bit

Starting point is 00:55:31 and the people on the right when the bar is moved up on their side, they're cool with it because it's what they want. And then the left is pissed off. And then it's time for the left to do the same thing and then move the bar up a little higher. And that's then we end up here where the bar is way up here. And it's like, every election now,

Starting point is 00:55:47 first it was, oh, the votes weren't counted. And then it was, Russia collusion. And then Trump, oh, the fake votes. And it's like, I'm mark my words, every election is gonna be by the opposite side, it's gonna be called fake for the following four years to take the other person down. And it's gonna be the game.

Starting point is 00:56:04 So we have to call it out. All of our change the way that we do votes. I hope they make it has to evolve in the next, in our lifetime. It's kind of crazy that it's been the same machines. Yeah, as long as we have. I tell you what, it's crazy with all the technology that we have around

Starting point is 00:56:22 cryptocurrency and blockchains? Yeah, blockchain. Thank you. That's what I wanted. Blockchain, blockchain, like how we haven't figured out how, if we can make that that protective and save, why couldn't we make votes like that somehow? Right. That's the capability has to be there. I'll say a very unpopular position.

Starting point is 00:56:37 I think voting should be hard. And here's why, because most people, most people, I'm already off by sitting at the chair at the best of tests. I think he thinks it's a big issue. Well, no, you know why you should have basic fundamental common sense before you get to decide. Well, because most, most people don't, they don't really know and they vote for things

Starting point is 00:56:54 that sound good or whatever. And so we make it easier. There's more people who don't know. And those same people, the people that are easy, easily influence one way or the other. And I don't care which way, left or right. It's that's what I, I'm an agreeance with you. Like I'm even okay if I didn't get to vote

Starting point is 00:57:08 because maybe I don't do enough. Like I don't see how to get out. You said you have to take a test. Yeah, I mean, that's been who writes the test. Yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, you can go down this rabbit hole of like, it could, it's, here's the future. It could always be corrupt.

Starting point is 00:57:21 There's always gonna be people trying to manipulate. There's always gonna be evil people. Like, there's, no, any you go, it's going to be like that. I just, I do agree that right now the strategy for both left and right is always to gain the populist vote from the people that are easily manipulated. And they, and it's just this battle back and forth or who can get this, get this vote. And it's like, man, honestly, I'd rather the, the people that, like, actually study all these policies and understand history and economics and like all these things influence us or making more. I just hate inconsistency.

Starting point is 00:57:52 It's like, you're over here saying it's a private company. They can do what they want when it's biased in your direction. Then somebody buys it. You don't agree with them. Now you want regulation. Right. Or, hey, I don't like it when, you know, government does that and, you know, tries to tell companies, and then when it's your side that does it, it's like, be consistent.

Starting point is 00:58:11 Yeah. That's all. Did you watch the most recent all-in podcast where they had the guy, the CEO from Coinbase on? No, I didn't see that. Oh, you didn't see that. Oh, that was interesting. They talked to him because remember, Coinbase was the first company to come out and say no politics. And you know, he did it after they had already been in business for a while. So there was definitely a little bit of backlash like they lost employees over it. And it was better though. It is.

Starting point is 00:58:33 And that's what he's talking about. And so what they were speculating on is that this is going to be the future of come. You're going to have to decide either one, you're easily influenced by the mob and you're going to go to Disney route or you you're gonna take a stance like Cohen base and say no politics will work at all. No, leave it at the door. That's it. So it's gonna be interesting to see

Starting point is 00:58:52 how we're company. Unless your nose is perfectly clean in your big company, do not take a position because they'll find something on you. Yeah, they'll come back to haunt you. Anyway, Justin, I need to ask you, because I know you're now, you're not a big supplement guy,

Starting point is 00:59:04 but I know you've been taking way protein regularly. Is this, are you doing this? You're doing which one, the Legion? Legion, yeah, I'm doing the way protein, the one. The flavor you want. It's a, what do you think? Yeah, peanut butter and chocolate. Oh, that's so good.

Starting point is 00:59:19 I haven't had that one yet. I'm actually eating their cookie dough cookies. I think I've come out before instead I didn't like their bars. Yeah, but I'm, do you just do it with milk? Cause I also add like whole milk, which, you know, that's a lot of dairy, but I'm all about it. Just like I'm gonna cut. I'm an almond milk.

Starting point is 00:59:37 Yeah, whole whole ice cream. I like to add ice cream. Now I just start throwing ice in there blending it so much smoother. Like I, I was like, why didn't I do that the whole time? Is that breakfast? Is that what you do? Yeah, because usually before I have to go early to train the high school kids, I have to get them a lot

Starting point is 00:59:53 earlier. So that's my quickest, best option all the time. And I'm trying to get as consistent as possible with eating breakfast. And it's really been paying off. It's giving me a lot more energy throughout the day. This was after Dr. Cabral did our test, right? That's it.

Starting point is 01:00:06 Yeah, that pissed me off. It was like in this catabolic state, you know, you fuck man. Like, you realize, but then it's like, oh, it's all fat jokes, you guys. You know, like always cutting out the constant cut. You know?

Starting point is 01:00:20 No, I don't even like all but it. No, I just skipped breakfast. I went because I was like, oh, I don't need deep breakfast. I'm like a coffee guy and it just kept driving me like even further throughout the day. Sometimes I've mislunch and yeah, I would just got in that habit of I would eat a big meal for dinner for sure, but then it would eat smaller meals. And now I'm like, man, I gotta really bump my calories and get on top of this. Do you feel stronger? I feel stronger, feel more energetic. Like, yeah, it's so much better.

Starting point is 01:00:48 I can't stoop if I haven't been doing this. I can't do dairy, but I use their way for, I'll give it to the kids, or I'll give it to Jessica. And they like it a lot. It's really, really, I don't know, clean. It's, yeah, it's clean and it's delicious. I've been, I've been meaning to actually tell Mike that he really nailed the flavor profile

Starting point is 01:01:04 on the vanilla flavor. So secretly, I've always kept a brand that I've used for a long time for vanilla stuff when I like, when I bake with it. And I think I've told you guys this before. I've tried so many different brands and, you know, it's splitting hair difference on so many different companies. And the one that I've been drawn to for so long is the one that I felt mixed with food and the flavor profiles the easiest for me to create my own stuff. And I actually, for the first time, I actually used his vanilla way I haven't used it before and it was bomb probably. How did you make something with it? Yeah, like I always make my protein shakes. I'm not like, just like you straight water

Starting point is 01:01:41 almond milk and shake it up and just drink it straight. Like I like to fruit banana, peanut butter. I use coffee grounds. Like my favorite mix, I think I told it on the show before is what I actually put real coffee grounds of hazelnut in there. I do a banana. I do two tablespoons of peanut butter, and then I blend.

Starting point is 01:01:58 I'm so full of fancy. I just hopped through some peanut butter in there, maybe just like what I'm saying. I mean, so for me, it's like, like a couple of kids over here. Well, I'm gonna taste super good in there, man. Just like what I mean. So for me, it's like, I got a couple of kids over here. I'm gonna taste super good at this. Mine is only at night. It kind of works twofold for me.

Starting point is 01:02:10 I'm like, watered. Not only is it helping me hit my protein intake. If I'm dry, it also gives me that, like, you know, my ice cream addiction. So it gives me that feeling of like having a milkshake. Have you ever tried making popsicles with it? I wonder. Protein shake? Yeah, like freeze it. You know, like, you know, they have those ever tried making popsicles with it? I wonder. Protein shake?

Starting point is 01:02:26 Yeah, like freeze it. You know, like, you know, they have those like sticks that you can make with it. Yeah, we do, we do for maps all the time. I wonder if that will be good. Like a protein shake popsicle. Katrina makes these, what's the, what's the, the, the electrolyte thing

Starting point is 01:02:38 that you, when your kids are like dehydrated from the, like, pidiolite. She does, she mixes like a three to one ratio water to pidiolite to for popsicles for maps. Oh, interesting. He does, he mixes like a three to one ratio water to P.D.O. light to for popsicles for Matt. Oh, interesting. That's what he's been having forever. Really?

Starting point is 01:02:49 Yeah. I don't know. Man, when he has a real popsicle one day, he's going to be like, what the fuck, dad? Yeah. We gave him a real lollipop the other day because we're trying to train him to use the toilet. So cute. I forgot to tell you guys this thought was so funny. So like, this is what's kind of cool.

Starting point is 01:03:02 And I'm like training. I was like, high five in each other. Like, yeah, I'm so proud of us. We waited almost three years to like, introduce sugar to this kid. So it is what's kind of cool. And I'm like, Katrina and I were like, high five and each other like, yeah, I'm so proud of us. We waited almost three years to like, introduce sugar to this kid. So it's got so much power now, you know? So it's like, yeah. Yeah, so it's like this little lollipop,

Starting point is 01:03:13 he gets, he gets treat goes a long way. And we, by the way, we still didn't even get like a traditional super sweet lollipop. I found this brand that's like super low, like sugar, everything, right? But it's more than he's ever had. So we introduced it to him to go into the toilet. And we, you know, we got him to pee in the toilet the other day for the first time and, like sugar, everything, right? But it's more than he's ever had. So we introduced it to him to go in the toilet. And we got him to pee in the toilet the other day

Starting point is 01:03:27 for the first time and gave him his lollipop and he was still pumped about it. So yesterday on the way home, Katrina Cosby, she goes, your son's been sitting on the toilet for 30 minutes trying to pee because he wants a lollipop. So she goes, she says like, he's sitting there, he's farting and everything,

Starting point is 01:03:43 he's just trying to squeeze anything guy What's that lollipop so damn bad you will only pop for a fart Just I do that for you won't even leave it to you like I'm gonna sit here until I get it That's a dad's best friend is just sitting on the toilet for an hour It's he's learning from the escape. Yeah, exactly. He's doing the dad hack. I'll see you guys later So it's what dad does no don't that. My wife thinks I actually do that. And so does Katrina. Katrina will follow me up there and be like,

Starting point is 01:04:08 are you in the bathroom again? I'm not escaping. Okay. I actually take that long. This is my private time. Leave me alone. Yeah, things are moving. Hey, real quick, you gotta go check out

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Starting point is 01:04:40 That's what's amazing about their sodas. They're really good for you. So we drink them all the time. Go check them out. Head over to mindpumppartners.com. Click on alliepop, use the code MindPump for a discount. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Nick from Colorado. Nick, what's happening, man?

Starting point is 01:04:56 How come we help you? Hey, how's it going, guys? Yeah, so the question I have is in reference to anaerobic, I guess you can call it cardio, but it basically revolving around the muscle stimulus that could come from it. So the overall question is, do you feel anaerobic cardio or like explosive bodyweight exercises such as like sprints, squat jumps, or even like hitting the heavy bag with like punches or kicks, et cetera, produces a muscle-building signal similar to or less than weight training.

Starting point is 01:05:33 I bring this up because from personal experience and you know when looking at athletes that emphasize much of this in their training, they almost always are like lean and muscular, even when weightlifting might not be as much of a focus. But yeah, I mean, obviously I know they burn more calories than average people, but I was wondering. Let's first address the athlete thing. In fact, I think Sal brought this off brought this up off air yesterday. Yeah, I'm just talking about, we're just talking about how people

Starting point is 01:06:02 look at athletes and then, you know, we try and attach the sport or what they're doing to look at how their bodies look when the truth, the reverse is what's happening is they already are these, you know, the superior, they have superior genes athletically. And therefore they gravitate towards these sports. It's not the way they train that makes, I mean, I've met plenty of football players that eat Taco Bell twice a day and touch weights You know hardly ever and they look better than I looked on stage It's a good point because Although the sports themselves does contribute obviously to

Starting point is 01:06:37 Fitness and change of the body, but when we look at the top level of athletes What you're looking at are hardworking genetically gifted, specific to the sport that they compete in, types of people. So in other words, if I looked at the top level swimmers in the world, maybe I would assume that swimming a lot would give me a long, torso, short legs and long arms, right?

Starting point is 01:07:00 So we don't necessarily want to look at top athletes and do that, although we can get some clues, now what you're saying about sprints and explosive movements, jumping, that kind of stuff, there's definitely truth to that. That type of cardio is the resistance training or strength training of cardio, okay? It does build muscles.

Starting point is 01:07:20 So a sprint will build leg muscles, similar, but not the same as strength training. Strength training incorporates the eccentric portion of a repetition, which has a lot of muscle building potential. And so that would be the missing thing. However, explosive movements do build bigger muscle fibers, because bigger muscle fibers contract harder and produce more. Well, here's the thing is when you're talking about speed, which is really what you're talking about, when you're talking about being explosive and having this type of movement activity,

Starting point is 01:07:52 you're generating a lot of force. And so that force itself is a signal that you need more fast switch activity. Your muscles need to respond accordingly. And the way you structure it in terms of it being more anaerobic is gonna play a factor in terms of how your body responds. But in terms of building muscle, it's not, you know, that's not the ideal pathway to do.

Starting point is 01:08:15 It's just, you know, it does stimulate. It does have a factor in there, but it's definitely not anywhere close to resistance training. I'm so glad you said that, Justin, because that's the thing that needs to be addressed here is that it's really what the question we need and to know is like, what's your desired outcome, first of all? If you're trying to be an athlete,

Starting point is 01:08:34 then doing some of these things like the athletic training that makes total sense to train this way. But if your desired outcome is to look like the athlete, IE, I want to build muscle and be shredded in lean, therefore I want to do these exercises I hear or see them doing. That's not the best approach. There is a better approach to building more muscle faster and getting leaner faster. There are two different goals and two different ways that I would train the body to get that.

Starting point is 01:08:59 And the idea of, oh, let's combine it all together because this is what we see athletes lay looked this way, and therefore, I'm gonna train this way. It depending on the client's goal, I'm most likely not going to use that method of training to get their desired outcome, because what most clients say to me is they use an athlete and they go, check, I love the way this guy looks.

Starting point is 01:09:21 And he's also. I'll make me look like them. Yeah, make me look like them, and I see he's doing these. Oh, okay, oh, Jackson. I. And I see he's doing these. I see him doing these jump boxes and these ice skaters and he's doing these like cool moves. Like so let's follow his training. Right. It's like, no, what he's doing is specific to his sport and whoever's training him has got him doing that because it benefits him on the field or whatever sport we're

Starting point is 01:09:39 talking about. He didn't go to his coach and go like, Hey, I want to be the best looking basketball player on the court. He's like, I want to be the best looking basketball player on the court. He's like, I want to be the best basketball player. I just happen to have great genetics. And so I look awesome when I do it. So if you're the average person who is who's asking this question, I would I would propose a question back saying, okay, well, what is your goal? What is your desired outcome?

Starting point is 01:10:00 Are you trying to be athletic? And therefore you want to follow these types of programs? or do you have a look you're trying to obtain? And if that's the case, then I would tell you that this is not the best strategy for us to get there. I think there's a lot of value in this style of training too, even for your average person. We've talked about this too about how we lose this ability over time as we age especially. So doing a sort of a lower risk version of this is very advantageous, especially when you're in situations, just life situations where you have to move really quickly

Starting point is 01:10:34 and your body has to respond. A lot of times this is where people get injuries and it's over like the most ridiculous thing. Like you slip or you miss a step or you're reaching back really fast. So this will help train your body. And so I would just say, look at it in terms of a phase. You're going to weave this into your programming because it does have a lot of value.

Starting point is 01:10:56 Now, that being said, this isn't going to make you lose muscle. It is a muscle building contributor. Is it going to build more muscle? Hell no. Then just strength training. I mean, if it improves your ability to lift, then it might, right? If it gives you more stability to help you work out, it could. But I don't think it's like Adam said,

Starting point is 01:11:17 it's not like a strategy that. But if you're doing cardio and you're like, I'm going to do a form of cardio, that's not going to make me, you know, potentially send a conflicting signal and lose some muscle. This is the way to do it. Now, there is a right way to do it though, Nick, okay? It's number one, you better have the prerequisite, stability, and control to do it,

Starting point is 01:11:36 because it's far more risky doing explosive movements than it is to do controlled movements. So that's number one. Number two, you have to treat it like string training. In other words, don't do it to fatigue, or otherwise you're just doing cardio. It stops being anaerobic, it's now aerobic. So in other words, don't, you see people do this all the time.

Starting point is 01:11:54 They'll do jump boxes. It's part of a big circuit, and they're so exhausted, and it's all about getting tired, at which case, it really doesn't matter what you do. You can jump in place. You're gonna get the same result. You wanna be explosive with it and treat it like a set. So like, five explosive jumps, and then rest for a minute or two,

Starting point is 01:12:10 and then try again, the goal being to jump as high as you can, not jump as much as you can, or build stamina doing that. So you gotta definitely do it the right way. Now that we're done lecturing you, why don't you tell us exactly what your goal is? We can be able to jump in that right away goal is. Let's just assume this guy wants to do all this. Tell us exactly your goal. I want to hear what you're going for. I definitely, you know, kind of two-fold goal. I mean, I like, I definitely want to be like,

Starting point is 01:12:41 you know, going as I go into my 40s as lean as I can. I'm very avid weightlifter. I want to be like, you know, going as I go into like my 40s as lean as I can. I'm very avid weightlifter. I used to be an athlete, whether he's up or up like the kicking in the punching was I used to do boxing in MMA in college. And I really I missed that activity. But overall, I'd say just, you know, staying lean, not falling into the metabolic effect that y'all talk about a lot of, you know, going to slow not falling into the metabolic effect that you all talk about a lot of, you know, going to slow cardio and that slowing my metabolism down, but also maintaining

Starting point is 01:13:12 some level of athleticism. I don't want to say knees anymore. I was in the Marine Corps for 10 years and my knees are definitely beat down, so I can't like really run anymore. So it's like what sort of athletic activities can I do, combine with the weight training that I do to remain athletic, still remain lean, but not miss out my metabolism. I guess, so it's kind of a two-fold question. I love something. Okay, you said something that we didn't address that I think

Starting point is 01:13:38 is also important. Another thing that would be important to finding out about my client before I would give them advice is that you enjoy doing this, right? So sometimes I'm going to advise my client to go in a path that I know that there's a faster path to get them to their goal or even a better path to get them their goal, but part of their goal is man, I really, I love doing this athletic stuff. Yeah, if you plan on doing it forever, I better like it. Yeah, I enjoy it. It makes me feel good when I do it. It's fun.

Starting point is 01:14:08 I have that kind of. And so that's where as a coach, I'm going to take, okay, my knowledge around building bodies and go, okay, yeah, I know there's a better way or a faster way, potentially to get this guy to where he wants to potentially look. But he's also saying things like, hey, I really enjoy doing this. And so to me, I think you're like a maps performance is a perfect program for you. Like maps performance is going to give you that the athleticism that you're appealing

Starting point is 01:14:36 that appeals to you while also still strength training you and phasing you in and out kind of like what Justin said. So I absolutely if you don't have that program, we'll send that to you because to me, that's based off of your goals, that is like the perfect program and you're gonna get a lot of the things that you're looking for in that program. Yeah, we'll send that to you Nick.

Starting point is 01:14:54 I think that'll be perfect for you. And then when it comes to being lean, that's largely, largely a product of diet. I mean, the muscle aspect, of course, makes a big impact, but you're already kind of doing the strength training. That's going to be diet. So, I really, when it comes to exercising in a way to get lean, really what you want to

Starting point is 01:15:13 do is exercise in a way to maintain a faster metabolism. And then the other half of that is just, it's always going to be diet, so no matter what. So, that's going to be the big factor here. Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate the time. Huge fan. be the big factor here. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much guys. I really appreciate the time. A huge fan.

Starting point is 01:15:27 I've, you guys talked more about the metabolism than by anyone else on, uh, on, uh, these podcasts. So I really appreciate, uh, the insight there. You got it, man. Appreciate you calling in. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks guys. Take it easy.

Starting point is 01:15:40 Take it easy. Yeah. Justin, you said something about losing the ability and you know, you can hurt yourself. That is, I mean, that's happened to me a couple times. I was. Me too. That was a great point. Oh yeah, dude. I told this story before, but my, when my oldest was little, he was at the top of the stairs. And I mean, I've been working out forever with weights. And I was younger than I am now. So I can't even imagine if I did this now, but he goes to jump off the top steps because I used to have him jump off one of the steps

Starting point is 01:16:06 and I'd catch him. When he saw me at the bottom, it goes to jump off the top. I grabbed the railing and launched myself up the stairs and I ripped the railing off the wall, caught him, literally pulled every muscle on the left side of my body. Because of the superhero dad moves.

Starting point is 01:16:19 Yeah, but it was the explosiveness, right? Because I have the strength, but I didn't ever train lots of explosive power. So my body didn't have the ability really control or stabilize so I ended up hurting you know half my body as a result And it's true like you'll get fit and strong on the gym You'll miss a step go to step real fast. Oh, how did I hurt myself? I always work out. Well, it's an ability. It's a skill You got to train it. Yeah, I mean you over-correct at that point if you're not familiar with those movements anymore And it's just one of those things that like really quickly like, you don't have that ability anymore. So to train it is definitely something that now, and I didn't really consider that.

Starting point is 01:16:53 So we had Joe to Franco on. Yeah. I'm like, oh my god, what a great point. So, you know, that's definitely something that I've been noticing a lot too, you know, even with my parents and with everybody else. I'm like trying to get them to move fast every now and then just to maintain the ability. No, I mean, I shared on the podcast a while back, it was almost a year ago, I think, when I jumped out of the back of my truck, I have a lifted Chevy and when I jump out,

Starting point is 01:17:15 like it's something I've done probably a hundred times plus and never thought twice about it. And I thought my knees were going to explode. You know, and- When you hit the ground hard, I didn't even- Yeah, and really what the awakening for me was, I had never stopped consistently lifting weights and training, but what I had stopped is a lot of athletic training,

Starting point is 01:17:35 a lot of explosive type of movements. And that naturally just kind of wove its way into my routine because I've always played sports. And this is the longest period of time in my life that I've gone without playing any sort of sports. Well, if I don't play any sports, I'm also not training to kind of prepare myself for that. So I've lost an ability that I just thought I would have,

Starting point is 01:17:55 you know, I thought I would have ever, I know better. I should know better, I wouldn't have it forever. But like when I jumped out of that truck, I didn't think that I would feel that way. It's something I've done so many times, but it's, you know, if you don't train it, you'll lose it. The body will prune off the atability, even if you're a strong person in the gym and fit.

Starting point is 01:18:13 I mean, body fat percentage is good. I'm strong in the gym, but I don't train that way of movement. Okay, this is why we, we, you know, are such big advocates of certain barbell movements. Like, yeah, you can work out your legs with leg presses and leg extensions and, you know, hax squats and stuff

Starting point is 01:18:28 like that, but you stop squatting and you'll have strong legs from the other exercises, but that skill of squatting, which is fundamental, it'll start to slip away from you. You'll get under a bar or try to squat and you just don't have the same. So, you know, strength and it's all, so much of it is a skill that you have to practice all these movements,

Starting point is 01:18:46 not just have the muscles that contribute to the movements. That's the important thing to understand. Our next caller is Michelle from California. Hi, Michelle. How can we help you? Hey, guys, thank you so much for taking my question and just for all the content you put out there. I was super lucky. I was recommended your podcast back when I first became a trainer at Gold Gym and skipped past all the mistakes. I hear you guys say a lot of trainers make and now four years later I'm a full-time mentor out there at this as well as a personal trainer in a private setting and a bikini competitor. So I use all the tools you guys put out to help my clients and myself. So thank you. That's excellent.

Starting point is 01:19:25 Yeah. So I'll jump right into my question and then maybe give a little background information. My question is, is it detrimental to make a drastic drop in calories below maintenance in order to obtain long-term weight loss? And part of the reason I asked this question, as I said, I'm a bikini competitor,

Starting point is 01:19:44 and I'm currently in my off season from competing. And the main goal during my off season is to rebounce my hormones, because those were super-offs, make sure all my bio markers are good, my sleep, my stress, my mental health, trying to get all that balanced, as well as find out what diet works best for me. And the thing is, I was at maybe

Starting point is 01:20:07 1100 calories, 90 minutes of cardio when I last stepped on stage and I worked in a reverse, all the way up to about 2700 calories with barely any cardio. So yeah, gained a lot of muscle, did, you know, ate a lot of food, gained a lot of muscle, and made some great progress. But as you guys know, summer's coming up. So I did still, even though I'm not competing, I still wanted to jump into a cut. And immediately my coach put me in like a big deficit, 700 calories to like 1400 calories.

Starting point is 01:20:40 Some days where no carbs, which I've literally never done in my life. So I'm just, I lost a lot of weight, obviously, but I'm just really terrified of the idea of like, okay, once I get, once I stop losing weight, like, what can we do? Like, how much lower am I going to have to go? How much cardio will I have to do? Because I really don't want to stress if I'm not doing a show this year. You see cycling you out of that cut? Like, are you, is that just a temporary thing

Starting point is 01:21:06 or is that like a permanent, hey, for the next few weeks or months, we're going to do this. What's it look like? So at first, I thought it was like a one week, see where you're at, see how much weight you lose, and then we'll adjust from there. And then one week turned to two weeks, and then two weeks turned to three weeks,

Starting point is 01:21:21 and then I went rogue ultimately, and now I'm kind of trying to build my own program, but I'm scared if I increase the calories too much, now I'm gonna gain the 10 pounds that I lost, and I don't want that to happen, but I do, now having carbs made me crazy, it made me have a headache and all that, I really struggled, so.

Starting point is 01:21:42 Well, Michelle, Michelle, let me ask you a quick, because your original question was, is it detrimental to make those drastic drops for long-term weight and not loss? And you went from 2700 calories to, you said 700 to 1400 calories. Yeah, great cycle.

Starting point is 01:21:57 What do you think? Like, what do you think that this is? Well, let me help you. And I want to know what your opinion is before I answer, because I have a feeling that you might know the answer already and you might just want confirmation. Well, so originally I gave a little pushback to my coach and then tried to see it from that perspective.

Starting point is 01:22:18 I mean, I just don't know. So I feel like it is. I feel like I've been taught to slowly decrease, decrease, decrease, but I wasn't sure if his goal was to make me lose a lot of fat, a lot of weight, and then kind of build up into it. Because you know, like ideally I'd love to go into a show eating more than being at my lowest, which is what I've done in the past. So I don't know if that was the game plan or if he thought maybe I won't lose as much muscle if I do it quickly Two big red flags here one you didn't know what the plan was that's a book. It's a that's a crappy coach

Starting point is 01:22:51 You should know what you're gonna be doing not just here's this and then we'll figure it out So you should already know he should explain that to you. Yeah, sounds like he just did a massive calorie cut Sees that you're leaning out says all just stay the course until he until it's not working. Yeah number two Here's another red flag. And this one really pertains to you, Michelle. Why are you hiring a coach that's saying this to you when you're a trainer, you've been a trainer for four years? What would you tell your client?

Starting point is 01:23:17 Like why are you allowing this person to kind of ruin your body, ruin your health through an approach like this? I think you know the answer. That's something you need to answer for yourself. Like, why are you seeking this out with somebody? Do you think he's gonna have the magic answer? That's gonna give you something that has worked for nobody?

Starting point is 01:23:34 Well, I'm sure he's a... I'm sure he touts himself as a professional in the body building space. Sure, but that's not the point, right? Like, what is it, Michelle, that makes you wanna do this and stick to it for a few weeks. Like, that's an important question to answer. I think curiosity as a coach and as someone, I mean, you guys have talked a lot about trying different diets, things like that.

Starting point is 01:23:58 I'd never tried no carbs, so I was curious, right? To see, okay, how is my body going to respond? I realized it didn't work and I did communicate with my coach, like, hey, this isn't working. I'm going to try to add carbs. I'm going to do something different. But I'm curious if it because he there are some people that are still doing this diet. So I'm curious as to what I left there. I mean, that's fair. You want to try it? Something out. I mean, I get that. Three weeks isn't going to ruin your metabolism. So you're okay. Yeah. So I'm glad you said that because that's what I've been wanting to jump in and say right now. So we have a good friend, Jordan Siett, and also Eugene Tau, I think I saw it. They did this a while back. I've seen them both do it on their social media

Starting point is 01:24:32 where they try to adjust, address coaches that are alarmist about calorie restriction and saying that you're not gonna destroy your metabolism over a week or two of super low calorie. In fact, and they were making the case for how it could be healthy for you. And it's not. And they're right. Like in a short period of time, a really, really low calorie diet is not, it's when it gets becomes chronic when we get into trouble. And now what I would be concerned as a coach is if you've, you've already been there before where you were chronically under eating,

Starting point is 01:25:06 and I'm now putting you in that position again, I'm flirting with potentially bad behaviors. So and this is, and that's when you have another level of coaching when they're like, not only are they looking at the X's and O's, but they're also taking into account, what I don't want to do to this girl is I don't want to restrict her so hard that she falls into old patterns again and she just cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts. The other red flag is that, you know, he didn't build in like a calorie surplus day in that time. Like you could easily see incredible benefits cutting a tremendous amount of calories in

Starting point is 01:25:35 a short period of time. And then also just like inserting once a week or once every 10 days or show a high refeed. I did get a cheat kind of day meal every week, which was different than I've ever done. Whenever I compete, I'd never get any cheat meal. So it was different where he would break up that calorie deficit. But how did he explain the cheat meal? What does that, what do you mean by that? As it will often, I mean, again, I'm not competing, so I wasn't as rigid, but it would be like,

Starting point is 01:26:08 you know, eat ten ounce steak with eight ounces of potato or something that was a lot higher in fat carbs, protein, to just boost up and the idea was to kind of re-engage my metabolism or kickstart my metabolism back back so didn't get too adjusted to the low calories. How high was you go at a steak and potato is not like? Yeah, that's one meal. So, what would that take your calories? Yeah, what would it take this cheat meal or slash day if you were restricting 1400 calories

Starting point is 01:26:40 a day, let's say? Well, 700 to 1400. Yeah, yeah, right. 700 to 1400 calories a day. What did the day when you decided to get, seven hundred and fourteen hundred. Yeah, yeah, right. Seven hundred and fourteen hundred calories a day. What did the day when you decided to get, or when you were allowed to get this cheat meal, what did that push you up to? It pushed me up to probably like eighteen hundred or so. Eight, eighteen hundred total calories.

Starting point is 01:26:58 When you were, yeah, that's still a cut. You were coming, you were, you were just saying a couple of weeks ago, you're twenty seven hundred. A surplus, I would take you back to maintenance surplus, which would be 27 to 2900 calories for that one day. You're not, you're going from an extreme cut to a kind of cut is still keeping you chronically cutting. So, 1800 calories is a 900 calorie cut from what she was out there.

Starting point is 01:27:20 That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You didn't go to a surplus. A surplus would be, or at least maintenance, 2700. So going from 1100 or being super low, and then bumping you up for 500 calories,

Starting point is 01:27:31 it's not doing, the body is still starving for nutrients. It's, you're depriving, you're still depriving it from where you were just a month ago. So, yeah, no, that's not, there's a lot of red flags here on it as far as the coaching strategy here, the sal pointed out, not even knowing what you're doing. I don't think it's necessary for you to have to cut that much, not doing a proper refeed

Starting point is 01:27:52 in my opinion. There's a lot of those things that I'm not a fan of, but I do want to make clear that I don't want to be alarmist with this because I think both Jordan, Siot and our friend Eugene Tau, the post that they did, I think it was a good post when they shared this that, it is okay, I do this all the time where, I've been eating in a surplus for a while, I'm like, this week I'm just gonna,

Starting point is 01:28:16 I'm gonna eat real low calories. You can literally fast for seven days. Yeah, it's not gonna fuck your metabolism. No, I mean, it depends on the person. Of course, if you're not an extreme person. Yeah, context matters. But for the average person, short period isn't gonna cause that long term.

Starting point is 01:28:31 It can definitely cause some issues. Now, you're not competing anymore. What is your goal exactly? You have a specific goal. Like, are you trying to drop a certain percent body fat? Well, the idea, I mean, I plan on competing. I want to go on the national stage to try to get my pro card.

Starting point is 01:28:47 Okay. Actually, but I also, the feedback is always grow, grow, grow. So I want, I, so I built a lot of muscle and I, I want to know, I want to get lean enough to see where I'm at and see if I can go into a show or if I should get back into a book and build more muscle so that when I get on the probe on the stage. Sure. Well, hey, Michelle, a three week aggressive cut, to get back into a book and build more muscle so that when I get on the probe on the stage.

Starting point is 01:29:05 Sure. Well, hey, Michelle, a three-week aggressive cut like you did and then going back to to kind of a small, a short bulk, that's a great strategy actually. Yeah. That's not a bad strategy. If it's only two or three weeks and then you go back to, you know, to a small bulk, that's not a bad strategy at minimizing fat gain, or even losing somebody fat in,

Starting point is 01:29:27 and then trying to build in that short bulk period. So I like that strategy. I don't like the long term cut. Yeah. You know, I get it before a show. I mean, when you're trying to get on stage, nothing that you do, especially the few weeks leading to a show

Starting point is 01:29:42 is gonna be healthy. So I get that, but right now you're just kind of trying to see for yourself. There's nothing wrong with the alternating approach, where you kind of trend towards getting leaner, but you're giving your body, definitely giving your body time to have more calories and more nutrients and kind of preserving some of the muscle that you've built. Yeah, I think there was an episode that I listened to that Adam that actually kind of suggested something like that. And it was when I was just starting this, and it was like three, I think it was like, yeah,

Starting point is 01:30:11 three days of super, of deficit, and then three days of a more maintenance or above maintenance, calorie range. And the thing is I've, I've been in this kind of deficit and then going up and kind of going back and forth and I've Maintained a lot of muscle. I mean, I think I wrote down that I just hit a PR for four or five for my glute bridges Like I'm surprised that my strength is not going down my strength is going up awesome While still in this deficit

Starting point is 01:30:40 Awesome. Yeah, no, I mean does it good sign. Yeah, that's definitely a good sign So but I would keep those short I would, especially now now when you get into show prep, that's a little different. But for something like this, you've already done three weeks, I would go back to maintenance for a cup. If your old goal is ultimately to get leaner, then you want the cuts to be a little longer than the bulks, right? So I would go like three week cut, maybe a two week, one and a half to two week, you know, maintenance or slight bulk, and then go back to a three week type cut until you, and it'll take you longer to get there, but it's not going to cause problems. But also, you know, pay attention, you sound like you're pretty put together. Just pay attention to the behaviors that that might encourage. It's not, you know, that up and down with the food. If you find yourself feeling restrictive and then bingey, then go back to something more consistent,

Starting point is 01:31:30 because that's gonna be most important. That's just gonna stick to you past these competitions, you know? Yeah, I'm a mental therapist. First and foremost, mental health is always number one, especially when it comes to food habits and living. Excellent. Yeah, you get it. Yeah, you got it. No, perfect. Michelle is any program we can give you? Can we give you something to follow?

Starting point is 01:31:51 I mean, I have almost all of them. The only one I don't have is PED, but I don't know if that's probably not what you need. Did you get the new one already? Did you get symmetry? Yeah, we got it. Awesome. Okay, good deal. The symmetry and the two ebooks that came with. Well, if you stop by, we'll give you a hug. Well, I was gonna say about the forum,

Starting point is 01:32:15 would I be able to join that? Yeah, yeah, we'll join for sure. Yeah. And in fact, by the way, we have quite a few competitors in there, and a lot of people that have coached themselves, some people that are not, some people I've actually coached are in there. So yeah, there's a great community in there

Starting point is 01:32:30 around the competition. So make sure you get in there and introduce yourself. Yeah, that would be so helpful. Awesome. We'll see you in there then. Thanks for calling in, Michelle. So much. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you said that out on that.

Starting point is 01:32:42 I mean, three weeks, right? It's not gonna do, I mean, you could literally, you could literally fast for a week, like you, nothing. And of course, you said that out on that. I mean, three weeks, right? It's not gonna do. I mean, you could literally, you could literally fast for a week, like, you know, nothing. And of course, you gotta be healthy and all that stuff. And it's not gonna have this crazy, you know, detrimental effect on your metabolism. But you follow super low calorie diet,

Starting point is 01:32:55 plus lots of exercise for two months, three months, four months. Yeah. Now the adaptation starts to happen. True, the behavior's in the trends. Yeah. Watch with that. Yeah, the temporary approach, you know, you can rebound from that pretty good.

Starting point is 01:33:08 It actually benefits you. Well, yeah, especially when it's consistently for months and the direction you're always going is less and less and less and less. Like without any sort of interruption of, hey, how about for a week we run to a maintenance surplus? And I think it's as simple as that, but I think you hit it on the head. There's several red flags here with just his approach, the fact that he's not sharing what the plan is already.

Starting point is 01:33:32 Right. I mean, a lot of these coaches, you need clarity. You need that up front. Well, as he's the, he hit the same button every time. Oh, you want to hire me? Here we go. Boom, low calorie, boom, extra workout. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:41 And then they, oh, stop working lower calorie, extra workout. And they ride that train as long as they can. Yeah. It sounds exactly what he's doing is just like, I'm just a carcass. Oh, she's still seen results. She's still strong. Keep pushing it. Yeah. This key pushing it. More cardio. Yeah. It's just lower eating. It's terrible. Our next color is Zach from Maryland. Zach, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, guys. Really appreciate you having me on and just want to start by thinking you for all of the great information that you're putting out there. Yeah, when I was first trying to lose a bunch of weight, I got all caught up in the trendy fads. So guys, it got me right on the right track with fitness. So cool.

Starting point is 01:34:16 It's really can't thank you enough. Awesome. Yeah, so yeah, for context, I'm a former college football player. I played O-Line and I've lost a bunch of weight since I finished playing and you know, undergone significant body recomposition by following the NAPS programs. So I followed the RGB bundle and I'm currently in phase three of aesthetic. And so this is my first time in really 10 plus years of lifting that I'm focusing primarily on getting a pump is sort of the main adaptation. Yeah, I've sort of gotten it before and familiar with it, but this has never been the main focus. So my question is that I'm finding that I can find, I can lift greater weights with the high reps

Starting point is 01:34:59 prescribed in the super sets in phase three with good form, but it kind of takes away from the feel of the muscles. And if I lift lighter weights, I can really focus on that mind muscle connection and squeeze the muscles more out over the same number of reps and kind of increase the feel of the pump that I'm getting. So my thought is that I probably should do the ladder and focus on the feel of the muscles,

Starting point is 01:35:24 but just want to, you know, make making that lightweight feel as heavy as possible and do more with it. I want to confirm that that's the right approach. And whether you have any tips on how to know that you're at the correct weight for, you know, not going too light, I'm not going too heavy that you can't focus on. I like this. Yeah, no, you're like, I like how you're presenting that. You're on point.

Starting point is 01:35:43 That's exactly what you want to do, especially with the phase like that. When you're doing low-rept training, focus for sure. Yes. When you're doing low-rept training, you're doing like five reps and you're doing compound lifts. It's about the movement. It's about movement efficiency, maximizing leverage. When you're doing the higher reps, bodybuilder style training, it's all about the feel.

Starting point is 01:36:02 You're better off for the most part. Now, I know I'm talking to somebody who used to play college football, right? You used to, in your question, you wrote down that you played college football before or you. So you were high level athlete. You're probably pretty strong or you have at least the propensity for tremendous strength. There's a risk versus reward here when we go with heavy weight. The reward with going heavier can be more muscle growth, but it depends on who I'm talking to. Someone like you,

Starting point is 01:36:31 you're better off making the weight feel heavier than adding weight to the bar. You're going to get, you're still going to build muscle, but you're going to reduce the risk of injury with the higher with the heavier weight. So you're better off with the feel, especially with the phase three of Mapsesthetic. So you're on point when I train this way if I feel like I can add five pounds or ten pounds to the bar All I do is I try to make the set harder myself so I don't have to add weight. I get way better results that way I guarantee this is a novel stimulus for you Knowing yeah knowing like what the training used to look like for football, this is the perfect opportunity for you to really focus in on a completely different approach to weight training.

Starting point is 01:37:16 You're right on point in terms of really trying to mind muscle connection is where you want to live. And really, I think one of the things that I found myself as far as like always trying to intensify everything because of the type of workouts I used to do forever. This is one of those things like don't go super fast. Like really feel it. Like, slow yourself down because it's high wraps and lighter weight. A lot of times people tend to rush their way through it in terms of the way that I used to approach

Starting point is 01:37:52 it. I think that that's one thing. You're already on point in terms of how you're looking at it, so I just want to reiterate that. I don't have much to contribute to that. I think that other than I think great self awareness, I think that men tend to have a tendency to put more weight on the bar than they should, especially if you play call it so long. Yeah, especially if you have an athletic background. So the fact that you've got the awareness that you probably have that tendency and you probably should lighten the load and focus on squeeze, I think is great, man. I think more people, especially men, need to do that. I think it's really, I'm as guilty of the same thing.

Starting point is 01:38:30 You get in the gym, you start feeling good, grabbing 10 or 15 more pounds out to it because I can. I let that get in the way sometimes, and I know that I should focus on the squeeze and the form and the technique. You're gonna get just as much, if not more out of it, plus without as much risk. So yeah, no, I think you got the right attitude.

Starting point is 01:38:51 And I think you're going to continue to see great results. Zach, you did map, center ball, like map performance. And now you're finishing maps aesthetic, right? Yep, yep. I'm planning to go to symmetry next. This, yeah, slowing these reps down is, maybe notice some, some, some, balances.

Starting point is 01:39:04 Do you have, you have symmetry or can I send that to you? I do have symmetry. All right. All right. Well, you almost got it for free. I do. I'm actually always. No, no worries.

Starting point is 01:39:13 What about, do you have anything for correctional stuff? Like maps prime, like a prime pro? Do you have that? Not yet. Prime pro, I definitely am interested in it. Let me send that to you because I think that'll, no matter what program you do, what you'll find in Maps Prime Pro is gonna help you out. Especially in X athlete like yourself,

Starting point is 01:39:29 there's gonna be certain muscle imbalances or movement issues that you're gonna start to identify, especially when you go through Maps Cemetery, and Prime Pro is a beautiful addition. That's awesome. Really, really appreciate that. No problem, man. Thanks for calling in.

Starting point is 01:39:43 Thank you. Keep it up, man. You know, I'm gonna say this this. This is, and this is, I think, generally true. Obviously, it depends on who I'm talking to, but you know, adding weight to the bar is really important when you first start working out. Later on, making the weight feel heavier, rather than adding weight to the bar, it becomes more important. Like the mind and muscle connection, bodybuilding style, type training, I say style and quotations, so I think correctional work and in multiplayer,

Starting point is 01:40:08 you know, movements are crucial. That bodybuilder typically don't do. But that style of training, where you're feeling the muscle, connecting, making the weight feel heavier and not adding weight to the bar, that's a better longevity approach to strength training. It really is.

Starting point is 01:40:23 Once you reach a certain point of strength, the risk versus reward just doesn't make sense to keep trying to add weight to the bar, unless you're a competitive powerlifter. I'm just stoked that somebody like this found their way to our programs and found their way to this, because this is such a high risk, you know, individual in terms of coming from a sport like that

Starting point is 01:40:42 and eating the mountain calories they're eating in the explosive, like damaging type of, you know, activity they're a part of, like, and then go shift completely to regular life that's sedentary and all this. Like, I've just seen some of the examples of, especially like O'Lime and D-Lime and where, you know, the health problem's just snowball,

Starting point is 01:41:03 it just accelerates. So, you know, the health problems just snowball, it just accelerates. So, you know, Kudos to him for really going through this and getting back on a good path. Oh, totally. Have you trained, you ever trained ex athletes in this situation? It's so hard to get them to switch mentalities because it's like, yeah, I mean, because for so long, that's how you lifted, that's how you trained, that's how you ate. And now you're like, no, no, no, no, slow down,

Starting point is 01:41:26 feel the muscle, like, what? I can lift more, let me go faster, let me go harder, you know? That's why my only contribution to the conversation was great self-awareness, because I think most people already struggle, most men struggle with this as it is, and then if you're also coming from that background, really hard to make that mental shift. Our next caller is Ashley from Ohio.

Starting point is 01:41:47 What's up Ashley, how can we help you? Hi guys, I just want to say thank you for, thank you to all of you for taking the time out of your day to do things like this. It's extremely valuable to people like myself. So I do have two questions, unrelated one is about fitness and one about nutrition, so hoping we can get to both. The first one though is about nutrition. So I've read quite a few books regarding carbohydrates and sugars and long-term how they affect us with chronic diseases and even in the short-term how they affect our bodies processing of fats in the protein that we eat. So just per my understanding, when we eat

Starting point is 01:42:26 carbs or sugars, of course our body releases insulin to regulate the glucose in our blood. But that also, that insulin also stops the fat from being able to freely move in and out of our fat cells. Basically it locks up our fat and that's what eventually causes weight gain. So I do track my macros. My priority is always protein. I'm always at 125 grams a day or more. And I do stick to a very low carbohydrate diet, not quite keto, but I try to stay under 100 grams a day. Sometimes it's like 50 or 60 grams a day and I feel fine with that, but I just, I don't understand my guess based on all the information that I've read, the things that I've learned. I don't understand where carbohydrates should really fit into a healthy diet. And then

Starting point is 01:43:20 that kind of leads me to obviously it's hard to cut out all carbs, but fruit, I know is good. So just trying to get your guys' opinion on carbohydrates and where they do fit. And my opinion is this is why the fitness industry sucks because we do this. We overcomplicate something that is much simpler than what we're making it and we try and scare people into a way of thinking or eating to sell my books or to sell my program or to sell my diet. And it's unfortunate because you can tell you're very smart. I can tell that you understand that, but yet you're asking a very good question based

Starting point is 01:43:56 off of probably conflicting stuff that you hear around carbohydrates and insulin. it's like, they're not carbs or not, are not bad. If you look at the issues with carbohydrate intake, what you're seeing is the result of excess calories. Okay, now I'm oversimplifying. Of course, there's healthier versus less healthy foods. This is true for fats and proteins as well as carbohydrates. But generally speaking, if you look at like the obesity epidemic and they've done this, right, they'll be like, oh, it's because we're consuming more fat, that's what happened in the 80s and 90s. proteins as well as carbohydrates. But generally speaking, if you look at the obesity epidemic

Starting point is 01:44:25 and they've done this, right, they'll be like, oh, it's because we're consuming more fat, that's what happened in the 80s and 90s. They're like, oh, no, no, it's actually carbs. No, what it is is reading more of everything. Our calories have gone up significantly. Really what correlates strongest to the obesity epidemic and inflammation and disease is heavily processed foods

Starting point is 01:44:42 and heavily processed foods are just engineered to make us eat them, eat more. So the more of our diets that are made up of heavily processed foods, the more calories we eat, and then that becomes the issue. Sugar, carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, don't have lots of negative effects when the calories are appropriate.

Starting point is 01:44:58 When the calories are high, sugars become a problem, certain fats become a problem. Even too many proteins can become a problem when the calories are too high. So that's generally what's happening. Okay, now to take it a step further, if you look at the studies on longevity, you'll find societies where their diets are predominantly or majority of their calories come from carbohydrates and they live a very long time.

Starting point is 01:45:23 So this is just, this is just not true. Now, are carbs essential? No, they're not essential, but that doesn't mean that eating them is better or gonna make you feel better. Some people feel better on lower carbs or the people feel better on higher carbohydrates. This is where individualism or individual,

Starting point is 01:45:42 body physiology kind of plays a role or even psychology. some people enjoy them more than others, but no, that's not the issue. Now, a lot of times people cut carbs and they feel a lot better and they're like, wow, this is great, what's going on? Heavenly process foods tend to be carb heavy. So what tends to happen when people cut carbohydrates

Starting point is 01:46:03 is they tend to eliminate a lot of the heavily processed foods. Like, try to think of heavily processed foods in boxes and wrappers that are fat or protein dominant, right? For protein dominant, what are you going to get jerky? Like that's a process food, but it's the least, yeah, it's not, or hot dogs, I guess, probably not great either, but most heavily processed foods are kind of carb heavy. So it's a result of that.

Starting point is 01:46:28 So I wouldn't worry about carbohydrates. Gary Tobs is, he definitely can be an alarmist with certain things. Yes, insulin does what you said, but that's not the full story. Yes, that's simple. No, if your calories are lower than what you're burning and you're eating 65% of your calories from carbohydrates,

Starting point is 01:46:46 you're gonna still lose body fat. Like that's the only way. I mean, we definitely wanna pay attention to your behaviors, like what? If that promotes, if sugars are processed foods, like you incorporate that into your diet, if it promotes the next day, you tend to have a higher calorie day again.

Starting point is 01:47:03 Like a lot of times, this kind of, it's a snowball effect. It's something that you can pay attention to, remove, and it'll affect your behaviors around eating, but in terms of the overall detrimental effects, it's when you're in a high calorie state. That's just, and that's the most important thing. It's you knowing yourself and your own behaviors. Now, if you have this tendency to over consume

Starting point is 01:47:24 when you eat carbohydrates, then you might be a client that I'm going to push you more towards a higher fat, lower carbohydrate diet for the behavioral reasons, not for the insulin purpose. That's not what I'm thinking about when I tell my client, like, hey, let's cut back on your car. Unless you're recommended by a medical doctor, because you have some kind of blood sugar issues or insulin resistance in which case, you know, that might be the case, but if you're otherwise healthy, no, it doesn't do that. And again, what they're doing is they're looking at what they're doing is they're looking

Starting point is 01:47:54 at carbohydrate intake and obesity and inflammation. And yes, when people eat high carbs, you see more inflammation, you see more obesity, but that's because they're also eating a lot more calories. Right? It's not the carbs, it's the excess calories because you can make the same connection with that when you do something like that, which is again, what caused all the false information in the 80s in the 90s. So it's the complexity of diet is about individual, how the individual responds, how they feel, but the simplicity, generally speaking, really has more to do with calories. Are you getting essential nutrients?

Starting point is 01:48:34 Are you overeating or under-eating? Really? That's really what it boils down to. And that was sort of, I guess, you know, his books definitely make me feel like all carbohydrates are just the devil and you shouldn't eat them, which is why, you know, his books definitely make me feel like all carbohydrates are just the devil and you shouldn't eat them, which is why, you know, I've come to you guys asking because I have cut out, you know, the very heavily refined carbohydrates, the processed sugars because they aren't satisfying to me and it does have, for me, it gives me a

Starting point is 01:48:59 tendency to eat more of them than I would eat of protein or a fat source. And those are easy to cut out and it honestly makes me feel better. But it was mainly more like when it comes to your vegetables and your fruits, the things that I enjoy that I know are still good for you. Just wanted a little, I guess reassurance that those are things that fit into my calorie and macro count for the day that those are are they're not going to throw me way off track. Good good. And then you had it. Did you have a fitness question as well you said? Yeah. So it actually just any fitness program but I've been really looking at your guys' programs. I race motor cross ride my dirt bike quite a bit. Obviously for training. So whenever

Starting point is 01:49:42 I and I've been working out consistently for about three years, whenever I have a program, I never know, or I'm looking at a program, I never know how to fit it around my racing and riding schedule. So my goals are obviously strength, endurance, and I do have aesthetic goals as well. It feels good to look great. So with Moto, you don't wanna ever bulk up your muscles because it ends up affecting you negatively on the bike. So I try to be lean muscle mass, which is great, but when it comes to my workouts, I usually try to take a rest day before.

Starting point is 01:50:19 Do more of like an active recovery, like walking or a stationary cycle, something that keeps the body moving but less impact or less resistance on the muscles. And same for the day after I just need a data recover. So with, like I've been looking at your sexy athlete bundle, with something like that, how would I work that around my own schedule

Starting point is 01:50:42 in my priorities with riding or just with any sport and general? I actually wouldn't recommend that for you. I would actually recommend maps performance based off of the things you're into, like motor cross and the fact that you're already smart enough to be doing like these active recovery days leading up and I would do mobility days.

Starting point is 01:50:59 And I would only train one to two days a week of the foundational days from performance and then the mobility days. So the performance is structured where you have three full-body workouts a week. But depending on how much motor cross riding you're doing would depend on whether I do that one time a week, two times a week or three times a week. How many days a week are you doing motor cross? I mean during the week one at most and that's usually on a Wednesday or Thursday

Starting point is 01:51:26 we have to wait for a track to be open. On the weekends I try to ride both Saturday and Sunday and one of those days is usually like a race day or performance day. One day a week of strength training. Yep. That's all I would do. I've trained a couple of motor costs, riders, very demanding. A lot of people don't realize just how demanding that is. Absolutely. Yeah. One day a week of strength training. And I would pick a map performance foundation to work out. That's it. No more strength training. It's going to be too much to add to what you're doing. And it'll be enough to get you strong, keep you fit, give you what you're looking for to help improve your performance with motocross. More than that will probably

Starting point is 01:52:00 be too much. Mobility you could do as much as you want. That's right. The mobility you do on all the other days that you can work out. So you only have one day of really focused on strength training and then the rest of the days that you can make it to the gym and it's feasible or even your living room for that matter. Follow the mobility days and literally follow the mobility days to the T like basically following the program. The only difference on how we would modify the program is like Sal saying instead of doing three foundational days a week, you would just do one.

Starting point is 01:52:27 Now because you're doing, you said Wednesday, Saturday, Sunday for motor cross? Yeah, and obviously the weather effect said if it's raining, we can't ride, I might only get to ride on the weekend or something like that, but yes, generally. The day that I would do the strength training would probably be Thursday.

Starting point is 01:52:42 So I know you wanna have a day before and after, but that's kind of possible to do with Wednesday and then Saturday and Sunday. I would go Thursday and then Monday, Tuesday, mobility, because you're coming off two days of motocross, Friday mobility, and then Saturday, Sunday, do your motocross. So Thursday would be the day I would do the strength training. And again, pick that workout for mass performance. Okay. And then let's say, you know, like I mentioned, it rains and I don't get to ride

Starting point is 01:53:07 during the week, is it okay to do two days of the... Yep, yep, and that's how I would decide that, is based off exactly that, is if this is a week where you didn't ride as much, go ahead and do another foundational day. And you, again, listen to your body, right? So you will have, you will know better than even we know, we're kind of guessing that will be good for you,

Starting point is 01:53:26 but if you go to two and you actually still feel really sore in your riding or you feel like it's hindering your workout, then back off to one, if you're doing one and you're feeling great and you wanna try too and you still feel great doing two, then go to. Okay, I'm just, I'm a very small female and I ride a full-size dirt bike and I've noticed

Starting point is 01:53:46 immensely how much of a difference it's made with my riding, just being strong and having the endurance I have. So, I'm just ready to keep that up and I guess sort of take it to the next level. So, definitely appreciate your guys' thoughts there. Excellent. Thanks for calling in, Ashley. We'll send you math performance, okay? Well, thank you.

Starting point is 01:54:03 I appreciate it. You guys have a great day. You too. I'll be going. Perfect. Yeah, you know, I'll tell you what, if you do a general study and you look at sodium, so salt and take, sugar and take, and fat and take, you will correlate all of those to obesity, inflammation, and disease. Why?

Starting point is 01:54:23 Salt, sugar, and fat are the key components of palatable, hyper-palatable food. So it'll also show which you have to control for. And this is the problem with studies. They don't know what to control for, then they don't know what to control for. But what you would do with that is if you saw salt, sugar, and fat, is you'd say, oh, they must be eating a lot of heavily processed foods, which means they're probably also eating a lot of calories. And that's why, for example, sodium has gotten connected to poor health in the past. Now, we know it's lots of controls. It's not that way, right? So, and you see now, you know, and it's really easy, by the way, to sell books and to, you know, to cause a lot of alarmists out there.

Starting point is 01:54:59 Yeah, and be like, oh, it's this, cut this out. And sometimes it's true, usually it's not though. And carbohydrates, we've been consuming, like humans have been consuming carbohydrates, fats and proteins for thousands of years. And there's cultures where people live a long time and they eat a lot of carbohydrates. And but their calories aren't very high. And they're still active. And that's the key.

Starting point is 01:55:18 I mean, generally speaking, I usually try to, just because it's, it's something I've noticed with all my clients, like they shared it in common. Whenever they would get an arrhythm of incorporating dessert or like something that has a lot of sugar in it, what followed that was more calories would just introduce themselves into the daily routine. And so you just gotta pay attention

Starting point is 01:55:43 to these patterns of behavior. And if that's one of your foods, or if it's salt, it's always chips, and it's something that you're constantly consuming and just adding mindless calories, and you're not getting a lot of nutrients from this type of food, something to evaluate. This is why I actually don't like to put a lot of parameters

Starting point is 01:55:59 around carbohydrates and fats for clients. Like I like to go figure out what my client needs calorie wise, hit figure out their protein intake. Yeah, get your essential fats. Yes, your protein. And then as long as the only parameter I have around fat is making sure you get a minimal around a fat, right? So making sure you're not below what's healthy.

Starting point is 01:56:17 And then I let you kind of go back more. Yeah, and I actually encourage the client like, hey, how about this week we focus on a lot, a lot higher fat intake and lower carbon intake keeping calories all the same, just manipulating those two macros. And then next week, let's do the reverse of that. And then assessing how did you feel? How did you like it? Was it easy to follow? Was it easy to make the meals? And then I'm taking that information and based off of their feedback and what they're what they're telling me, that's how I'm taking that information and based off of their feedback and what they're telling me, that's how I'm going to manipulate

Starting point is 01:56:47 whether we're gonna run a more carb heavy diet or a more fat diet. And I think to me, that is the better approach with someone or a client like this. Yeah, no exactly, that is the exact same thing. And you know, with myself, it revolves a lot around gut health. I, if my gut health is not that great,

Starting point is 01:57:04 lower carbohydrates tends to work better. But if my gut health is not that great, lower carbohydrates tends to work better, but if my gut health is great, higher carbohydrates get better performance. I get better strength. That's me personally, right? So I 100%. How did you know, how did you know she was talking about Gary Thompson?

Starting point is 01:57:15 It's in her. It's in her. I was like, you guys nailed that. I'm like, how did you know that? I didn't hear her say it. I just read her mind. Well, you know, I have the special part.

Starting point is 01:57:24 He's the one on, that was on Joe Rogan and I know Lane Norton came after. I just read her mind. Well, you know, I have those special parts. He's the one that was on Joe Rogan, and I know Lane Norton came after him. Lane always goes after him. Yeah, Lane likes to go after him hard, but I mean, some of the stuff he, I've seen a lot of his stuff, some of his stuff is, he's an investigative journalist.

Starting point is 01:57:35 Yeah, that's what makes him, so that's what makes him so popular, though, is that there's truth in some of the stuff that he says. No, the investigative journalist I like is Max Lugavir because he really does a good job of looking at data, breaking it down, looking at controls and not being such an alarmist. By the way, people love to just discredit somebody like that

Starting point is 01:57:57 because they're not a, you know, they're not going through the conventional PhD program. Yeah, and I don't think that's fair at all because they like a max look of ear. They could be more red than some of the nutritionists that are out there. It's just their studies that compare literally the same calories, low carb, high carb.

Starting point is 01:58:13 What happens at the end? Very similar, very, very similar fat loss, health parameters, blood markers change. The individual variances of what determine, which ones better or not. I mean, if you have someone with like early stages of dementia, a ketogenic diet might actually be good for them with cognition. Is that true for somebody without dementia?

Starting point is 01:58:33 No, usually you don't see that much of a benefit or any benefit. So the individual variance is where things can get kind of weird. But when you look at generally speaking, no, it's not true. That carbs are the devil. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal.

Starting point is 01:58:51 You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance, and

Starting point is 01:59:17 maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1804: Explosive Exercises for Muscle Growth & Fat Loss, the Impact of Short-Term Caloric Restriction on the Metabolism, the Pros & Cons of Eating Carbs & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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