Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1817: Cameron Hanes- All Things Hunting

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with renowned hunter Cameron Hanes. Is there a certain type of person attracted to bowhunting? (1:44) His purist mentally towards his hunts. (4:04) Is bowhunting more merciful than a bullet? (7:08) Why bowhunting is a rep-related endeavor. (10:41) Hunting doesn’t care who you are. (16:00) How did he become known for bowhunting? (18:46) Is hunting gaining popularity? (23:23) The role hunters play in conservation. (25:33) The misconceptions that critics have about hunters. (27:30) How no medicine can beat exercise. (31:32) Why there is a difference between scary and dangerous hunts. (32:48) His most memorable kill. (38:35) Do the hunts feel more meaningful on sacred ground? (40:03) How running and hunting built his confidence. (43:49) Cameron explains the difficulty of hauling back his kills. (46:16) What has been his hardest haul? (49:33) In his opinion, what is the best and worst-tasting meat? (52:09) Everything is tougher in Africa. (55:28) Where is a good place to start for a new hunter? (58:21) Breaking down Hollywood actors’ techniques. (1:00:48) Why you want to be as good on the 10th day, as on the 1st day. (1:02:55) Has hunting made him a better father? (1:04:36) How he uses his attention to educate. (1:07:20) There is a David, and there is a Goggins. (1:08:47) Hunting with Luke Bryan. (1:11:24) Building lifelong relationships through hunting. (1:12:31) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Drink LMNT for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! May Promotion: MAPS Starter Bundle and MAPS Spilt 50% off! **Promo code MAYSPECIAL at checkout** Endure: How to Work Hard, Outlast, and Keep Hammering – Book by Cameron Hanes Cameron Hanes Learn How Blood Color Helps Hunters Track Animals WATCH: Bull Elk Bugles Sound Terrifying Bowhunter Joe Rogan Talks Hunting with Steven Rinella - MeatEater Trinity Alps Wilderness | Visit Trinity Why Are Cape Buffalos Called Black Death? Performance Archery Buck Commander - YouTube Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Cameron Hanes (@cameronrhanes)  Instagram Joe Rogan (@joerogan)  Instagram Luke Bryan (@lukebryan)  Instagram David Goggins (@davidgoggins)  Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode is a fun one. We had Cameron Haynes on the show. He's one of the world's best known bow hunters.

So really, really good conversation of the value of hunting. He told some really crazy stories. We had a lot of fun. Now this episode is brought to you by one of our sponsors, LMNT. So they make electrolyte powder drinks with no artificial sweeteners or flavors that has the appropriate level of sodium.

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I want to start us because you said something that I just wouldn't have thought about with hunting. I think hunting, more relaxing, peaceful, but we were talking about hunting grisly or lions. Like, I think that you would have to have people that are similar and Justin made the point like of like these rock climbers that climb with no rope or anything that like, is there a solo guy?

Yeah, like is that what it is? Is it a adrenaline thing? And are there, is it a certain type of person that is attracted to that type of a hunt? I don't know, I mean, I just know for me, I can't speak for anybody else, but I just know I like the being, testing myself at the highest level and that's, you know, whether I'm running, you know, even

training hard bow hunting. And to me, Grizzly's dangerous game in Africa, you know, there's Kate Buffalo, which are called black death. There's those lions like you talked about. And then Grizzly, Baron North America, Brown Bear here too. If you make a mistake, you're hunting Dierielk, they just spook and run away. You make a mistake hunting something that can kill you. There's a lot of risk. There's a risk. It requires you to be at your very best.

Is there levels to this game? You hunted certain game for so long and then eventually said, okay, I'm ready for this. Like how did that transition work? Yeah, I mean, basically I just started, I grew up hunting. So all I could afford to hunt really was deer. And so that's what everybody did. You just deer hunted. And then, you know, there'd be a question, you know, back at high school or whatever.

Oh, did you get your buck? You know, and that's just, did you kill it a buck deer? And so it transit it, well, it evolved. And that the same thing were my training at that time was just, you know, like the weight, the concrete field plastic weights, you know, the 8.8 pounds and all that shit. And so it was training with those and doing five or 10 Ks to now you, to now now I hunt dangerous game and I run 100 or 200 mile races. So it's like there's that whole journey and just like with lifting and training like you guys know is you know you reached a plateau, you push hard, you reach another one, you

keep moving that that goal post and you know you're 20, 30 years down the road, you're a completely different person. What's the what's the insurance of feel that you go, and I don't mean like little insurance, but like, do you have to carry a sidearm or something that can protect you if let's say you go and hunt in a grisly, you hit it, but it's not a lethal shot, and it's coming for you. You just pull out another arrow, like, what do you do? What?

Most people take sidearms. Yeah, they'll take it. They'll take it. I don't I don't why not is it just because the you want it just to be as pure as possible? Yeah, my Attitude and I people will get it people can criticize it doesn't I don't really care But if my intent is to kill the animal and in turn it kills me. That's the way it goes That's that's what we're doing Wow, it's like a purest way way it goes. That's what we're doing. Wow. It's like a purest way of looking at it for sure.

I mean, I don't know. People can criticize anything. They would ever say I'm just talking. But I did make a shot on a grizzly this last about a year ago from right now. And I thought I hit it perfect. And I hit a little little forward arrow went through the front of his chest looks it got one long Apparently anyway, so we're blood trailing it and he's got super thick in the alders there And I didn't want any guns there. I wanted to go down. I wanted to finish this bear and And Alaska a guide is required. I would rather just be by myself, but by law, a guide is required for dangerous game up there. So there was a guide there and then a couple buddies too. We were filming it. And I just said, don't shoot it. We spotted it. It was wounded.

And at first, we thought the bear was dead. The guys said dead bear. And so it was like, you know, that felt good. And then it raised its head up. So obviously it wasn't dead. And I just said, don't shoot. And I got down, I was about 10 yards from it. And I was, is in the thick alders and I was a full draw trying to get an arrow into it,

but you have to have a clear shooting lane. And the bear charged. I'm pretty happy and really fast shot missed. One of my buddies had another gun and hit it in the back hip and I hit it in the chest as it charged and it got to about four yards. And it was just it, I felt bad for the bear because I didn't want, I don't want to wound it animal, I don't want to animal to suffer. I'm trying to kill it as mercifully as I can and make a good shot.

So I felt bad in that. And then, secondarily, my hunt, I felt, it was tainted a little bit because I, as you, your words, I'm a purist, I don't want guns on my bowhunts and I've never had to have that happen, never had anybody have to, or I've never had to finish an animal with a rifle. So, um, but the point is, if it was just up to me, it just would have been me in the bear. And I would have either killed it or not. And that's just the way it goes. But so that, that happens. I don happens, I don't take a gun now. Is bow hunting considered more merciful than a bullet?

I think if it's done right, you know, people who might not know, I think that a gun would kill quicker, but what happens many times, like I've killed a lot of bull elk, big animals, 7,800, 900 pounds, a thousand pounds, even some of the Roosevelt bulls I kill in Oregon. And they're so wound up and they fight all the time. So an arrow hitting them through the lungs, they don't even really feel it. They just, sometimes they act like nothing

happens to them or something. Is that what they, they, they, they, you know, they get jab by sticks. There's, you know, it's rough living out in the mountains your whole life, right? And they're 10 or 12 years old. So they've been through a lot. So they can't, they don't really know what happens

and then all of a sudden their blood pressure drops and then they're dead. We're a gun. A gun will kill by shock. An arrow kills by hemorrhage. The blood I talked about. A gun, it's shock. So there's broken bones.

It's a loud sound. There's muscle torn apart. They definitely know they've been shot. So if you don't make a perfect shot, it's doing a lot of damage. And there's a lot of shock. And so to me, the most merciful death for an animal, they're all dying too.

I mean, it's not nobody's making this this out alive there So they're not living to their 80 it's not in a nursing home It's not they're either dying from starving or predators killing them or another animals killing them another you know They're same species so if they're gonna die which they are I Think the most merciful death for any wild animal is a well-placed arrow. I had no idea about that. Would it be, would it be six?

Now I'm trying to think of all the different variables, because off the top of my head, I would have thought what Adam said that a bullet would have been more merciful because killing fast or whatever. Do people miss more often with bullets because of the distance? In other words, if I have a gun, I'm assuming. So I don't know anything about hunting. So this is just, you know, pure question. I'm assuming with a rifle, I'm going to be a further distance, which also would make it much more difficult to be accurate. And you're probably see more beginners using rifles. So do you see more wounded, and you gotta keep shooting them type of deal with guns

that you do with arrows? Or? That's highly debated. Really? Yeah, because yes, they shoot further, but they're also more accurate. So there's more rifle hunters. So in, by and large, bow hunters in the general population

of animals kill less because there's less bow hunters, there's less successful bow hunters. There's more hunters in the grand scheme of things, higher success rate. So with those, people are imperfect, things happen. So the wounding rate is probably greater with the rifle, but it's because there's more of them. The percentage, it's hunting is about personal integrity,

and it's about doing ethically what you think is right. Everybody has different ethics. Some people, I want to make a perfect shot. I put a lot of pride in killing that animal quickly. Some people, maybe they get too wound up in the moment and shoot when they're not ready and kind of lose it for a second because it's so intense and don't make great shots.

And I'm gonna say I'm perfect, but I try very hard to be perfect. Some people might not have that same approach. And so, you know, it's about as hard as it gets. I wanna talk about the precision. You can mention that for what it takes to actually pull this off, the work that goes into that, the 10,000 hour kind of rule for you would kind of suggest for somebody to get into bow hunting, because it requires so much more attention to detail.

Yeah, it's definitely a rep related endeavor. I mean, just like lifting weights, you know, you don't get good at lifting weights overnight, you don't get big overnight. So it's the same thing. That's in a thousand hour rule. A lot of people throw that around. I don't know that it's that. I'm not sure what it is

because I've seen people who've been doing it for 30 years like myself. I think this is my 34th season, who still make errors. But those reps definitely do help because when that animal comes in, it's such an, or you stalk the animal and that it's like the adrenaline is pumping so hard that it's like a crescendo. Sometimes it's like just your, your drums feel like they're, it's just flowing, right? And, and I remember the first ball I ever shot at in 1989,

both came out of the, it's reprod, it's logging country. So reprod is where the timber's been cut and the new tree's been planted. So the trees were about 20 foot tall. And they parted like the parting C and then this bull comes out. And I was on my knees sitting there watching this bull on his big black horn seven by six rose of elbow.

And I was watching it and my arms felt like they were asleep. And it was like tingling. And I was just like, I didn't know if I could even pull my bow. So with that type of adrenaline, those type of intense moments, it's really hard to master the shot. With reps, you can make the shooting subconscious

because it is that precision, you can be so far off by one little error. So reps help definitely, but also time in the mountains, time being close to animals, learning, you kind of have to be a little bit of a biologist. You know, we talked about it before we started recording. If you hit an animal, you're reading the blood, So you're doing a little sort of a life autopsy, I guess.

What do you mean by reading the blood? Like, what are you looking for with that color of blood? It'll be different color based off of where it's coming from. Yeah, liver, hits, dark lungs are lighter, pink, kind of sometimes they have bubbles in them from the long hit. Yeah, and art and art or muscle is going to bleed different than if you hit guts, guts will, the stomach will be a clear fluid. The arrow might smell, it has a stench to it because it goes through the stomach. So yeah, there's the type of hair that's on the arrow

or this on the ground. Belly hair is different than back hair on the animal, whatever animal you're hunting. Different colors on deer, there's white hair on the belly, there's dark hair along the back. So interesting. So a lot is going into you. So as I said, a biologist, you need to know anatomy.

And then also, you need to know with the animal how they might react to the hit. You know, what are they gonna do if you hit an arrow? If you get them in the stomach, you need to know how an animal will die from that. And so what to do if you hit them in the lungs, what to do? You need to know where they, if they're wounded, where they might go in bed, how they react in the lungs, what to do? You need to know if they're wounded,

where they might go in bed, how they react after the shot, given the tracks, so you're looking at the tracks on the ground, how they run off, can be an indication of how wounded they are. So all this so much goes into it. Wow. So the reps, so the whole point of that,

the reps help the shot, yes, but there's a lot to successful hunting, more than the shot. But, the reps help the shot, yes, but there's a lot to successful hunting more than the shot. But if you can control the shot, well, then you're controlling what you can because you can't control all that other stuff. So with anything to answer your question is you do everything you can to control what you can. So what?

Okay, so say your arms freeze like in that situation, you just would you rather hold your shot or would you you know try to kind of work through that in that moment and like and how do you sort of how do you get past that first step I guess if you do have that kind of reserve going into that that big of a moment. That big of a moment. You know, it's why do some quarterbacks rise up and with the game on the line? Why do some people get up there and break a free throw? You know, so it's kind of that. It's everybody goes through the same.

People internalize it, deal with it differently. They have a different mindset. Some people might be quote, built for it. You know, people like to say I'm built for this. That maybe that's true. So some people might really never master that moment. Some people will be able to things as they say in sports all the time, things slow down, it feels like slow motion. You're doing exactly what you practice a million times. it worked just like it's supposed to. Many times it's somewhere in between. To where your arms are tingling or everything slows down.

It's like you just want to find that sweet spot where it's still working and you're still mastering. Now you've taken a few like well-known individuals, not that you're known for doing this on hunts like well-known individuals, now that you're known for doing this on hunts, anybody surprised you with their ability or maybe the opposite where you thought, oh, this guy's gonna be pretty good, and then this isn't for you. Yeah, I mean, I,

hunting doesn't care who it is. Another, they don't, money doesn't matter, well-known doesn't matter, you know what I mean, it's one of those saying it's just like you put 225 or 315 on the bench doesn't matter how rich you are if probably I can get it off the rack if you know unless you got some strength so uh yeah I mean one thing I will say Joe is because I think he's been training his whole life he might he it's been it's a journey to learn

that all the different factors, variables that I threw out there. But as far as mastering the shot, he's so dedicated to whatever he does, you know, whether it's Jiu-Jitsu or comedy or podcasting. So archery, it's been the same dedication to that. So he can make the shot. He definitely can make the shot. So he's been good, I mean, pretty impressive how well he can shoot.

Yeah, I would imagine people who who fought or people who've been in combat probably are more likely to be calm in a situation where they're presented with an animal and they have to make a shot versus like if you've never experienced that kind of stress then it might not know how to kind of handle it. Yeah, I mean, you think so. I mean, he, I think he'd remember this, but the first time I took him to Colorado, first time we had two bulls coming in and bugling, which I don't know if you guys have you guys heard of bull bugle before? No.

It's anyway, it's like this high pitch scream. It's so intense. So we're in this creek, kind of a pretty sharp creek drainage coming down, very tight, which means it was maybe 50 yards across it. So we were in the bottom of it. Two bulls were coming down. And it was coming down a crunch time,

which means something's gonna happen. The bulls are gonna see you. You're gonna get a shot off, which means something's gonna happen. The bulls are gonna see you. You're gonna get a shot off. It's something's gonna happen. And he said at that time, that was 2015, he said that was the most intense thing he's ever done. Oh wow. That moment.

Of all the things that he's done too. So yeah, you talk about all the things, people in fighting and it's just different. It's just, probably each discipline has their own, sure. I mean, you gotta master that discipline, but I think the preparation and going into it, you're probably mentally more prepared,

but still that's still gonna be super intense. Still new, still new thing. How did you how did you become known for for doing this kind of stuff like earlier off air you're saying how were you grew up everybody hunted. How did how did you end up becoming known for for doing this? Um, well, I mean, I always wanted to be a writer. This is what I wanted to do. I always enjoyed sharing my stories, sharing my experiences. And so I wrote a, I killed this buck when I was 15, it was a little spike buck. And I wrote this English paper on it. And the, the, my English teacher in high school said, Oh, you're pretty good at this. I probably, I still probably got a D on it or whatever that. But I'm trying to make you feel better. Yeah. Well, I was just entertainment lazy on grammar and all this, but I think the

bit the storytelling. Yeah, that's what that's a whole different part. Because people can be very good at grammar and everything, but not good storytelling. I tell these I have the same experience. So I was actually in advanced English, but I'm the worst chromatically. Still to this day, you make a word still. Yeah, I'm still I'm terrible, but my English teacher came to me and said like, you write really well yet it would be all

shocked up red. Right. Yeah, so I'm a very someone. Maybe it's the same. Right. And it's like, it's a lot, it's like a lot of things. It's like, some things you just can't, unless you have something in you,

it's hard to really be great at it, you know what I mean? So to be a storyteller, it's hard to really be great at it, you know what I mean? So to be a storyteller, it's hard to train to be a storyteller. Either you can tell a story or you can't. Now, putting that on paper is a whole different thing. But anyway, so he said, what did he say? Oh, he said you should write for the school paper. And I'm like, I'm not writing school papers. How dorky is that. I was playing football at basketball baseball. So I was like, but anyway, I remember him saying that. And I remember that felt good to get some positive feedback

on my writing. And I was like, okay, well, I like to tell these stories. So transition into a bow hunted. I killed another spike for my first bow kill and a spike bow elk. And I wrote a story and it got published. So that's just kind of started this journey as I wanted to be a hunting writer.

And then from there, I self published my first book and it barely sold 5,000 copies. Then I got it, I was an editor for a Bo Hunting magazine. I got pretty much got rejected by all the big magazines. I want, you know, pretty much got rejected by all the big magazines. I want to write for, Bo-Honey was a big magazine, Peterson's Bo-Honey was a big magazine. They would say, oh, you got the basis for a good story,

but you need to blah, blah, blah work on all this. So I just sent it to a smaller magazine and they'd publish it and I wouldn't make anything, but my name was in there. So that felt good. Anyway, so then I wrote another book that was very popular. And that's kind of how it's how we got here. Then I was on started being on TV hosting things. And got a little bit of a following. And then Joe saw in 2014. He he likes watching YouTube videos.

Still does. And I was carrying this, one of the training things I do is I'd carry this 130 pound rock up this hill by the house. And it's about 1,100 foot gain over a mile and a half. And so I'd carry this big rock. And Joe was like, is this guy doing it? Carrying a rock for Bo hunting? So he tweeted and invited me to come. I just posted it today actually

because it's kind of where this journey started. But asked if I wanted to come to LA and be on the podcast. Oh, that was you guys' first encounter. Oh wow. Interesting. Are there competitions in this? I mean, I have no very little of it. Are there competitions where you can go

and compete against other hunters and... Not hunting, but shooting. Okay. Yeah. So definitely shooting but not hunting. Did that ever appeal to you? Because I know you have, and I don't know if these guys know this or not, I actually not long ago heard you talk about your dad. Your dad was like quite the athlete. So do you have that in you also? Do you have that kind of athletic competitiveness in you? I'm very competitive. I was, I'm not an athlete like he was. I mean, he was an amazing athlete. And just, you know, what happens a lot of times is start drinking. He flunked out of the

U of O and was, you know, had incredible potential and, uh, in an going to Oregon state, same thing happened. And so he had, like this amazing natural ability, I, I don't really have that. Um, I, you know, I would just run and just play football like what everybody did and was okay. But not like he was. It seems like there's a lot more interest in hunting nowadays. Is that true? Is it gaining a lot more people than before?

Is it something that's gaining popularity? Western hunting definitely is, I think, overall numbers of hunters might be going up slightly, but the lure of Western hunting and the the mountains and living this adventurous life and you know like a lot of men want to you know it's like this genetic thing I think I mean we're here because we were hunters at one time is how we survived right so there's something there's something in all of us to be a hunter you know in, in a city, it's hard to feel it probably. But I think there's something to it when people talk about it and explain it. And then I know a lot of men hear it and they're like,

I want to know what it's like to go in the mountains, kill my own meat, and bring it home to my family. I mean, that's, there's a big draw these days to that, that mind, that story. Yeah. Well, I, I, I've never hunted, but I've always been very interested in what got me most interested is I had a client once who was for ethical reasons for their own reasons was vegan. And we would have these conversations. I'm definitely not vegan, I ate lots of meat. And she said to me, we had this whole conversation around it, and my point was, well, we hunted as humans,

and this is where apex predators, this is why we're here. And she said, well, have you ever killed your own animal? So we'll know. When I see meat, it's in wrapping at the grocery store, or something like that. And so that made me feel a bit like a hypocrite. And so I said, you know what, I think, When I see meat, it's in wrapping at the grocery store. And so that made me feel a bit like a hypocrite. And so I said, you know what?

I think I'm gonna do that at one point. You see kind of what that's all about. Are there more, more men wanting to do it for that reason right there? Or like, hey, I've never done this. That was Joe's exact journey. Really? And he'll say, I heard him say recently

on one of his podcasts. He was gonna be one or why or the other. It was gonna be, he's gonna go vegan and not eat meat because he didn't feel right about it or he's gonna be a hunter. Oh, interesting. You know, it's interesting, and this just through my own reading, I didn't realize how big of a role hunters play in preserving the environment.

Yeah, conservation. Conservation, yeah. So I had no idea. So, and oftentimes you feel like they're at odds because you have the, you know, animal rights, people like Don't Hunt, that's terrible. But I think you could probably make the argument

that in terms of conservation, hunters probably are more responsible for conserving more than even environmentalists. Would you say that that's a fair statement? Yeah. The whole thing is both sides have the same interest. Hunters do care about the animals, I mean, which seems odd because we kill them, but also our money is what goes to conserving the habitat,

the species, creating better habitat. Like some places are very hot and dry. So, a hundred money through hunting and or license and tag sales goes to making water holes for the animals. And that helps, you know, they can get water when it's dry out. But just we pay for biologists to study the animals and their numbers and the land has what's called a carrying capacity. So as humans encroach on wild lands, basically, as the cities grow, the land has less carrying capacity of animals.

All that needs to be studied to figure out how many tags, hunting tags should be allocated for that area. So that's all funded. That has to be funded by something, and that's hunters that funded. So hunters care about just like annih hunters care about the animals, hunters care about the animals too, but it's just coming from different directions. So yeah, hunters definitely pay for more than anti annih hunters are very vocal and they are very passionate. I'm sure about their beliefs, but they're not very

few in my writing checks. Well, that's interesting. You mentioned, you mentioned camera when we first started critics and this conversation kind of is going that way. What are some other misconceptions that you out there from critics about hunting? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just that we're, you know, bloodthirsty killers out there,

there's a stereotypical hunter which is driving around, drinking beer, maybe, you know, not respecting the land or the animals. So that's a pretty lazy, even in Hollywood, the movie's like a hunter's hardly ever a good guy. It's usually some redneck, hillbilly. So, you know, because of that,

and because a lot of people grow up in cities, and they're not exposed to hunters, they, a lot of people attach that stigma to it. The hunters, I know, are very committed, very dedicated to training, to being their best. They care about the animals, they don't want an animal to be wounded and suffer. And that's what I see.

And there's a great sense of pride and procuring your own meat, as we talked about. It's easy to go to the store. It's definitely easy to go to the store and buy a meat. But our life is built on conveniences these days. And I feel like, and you guys know, because you train, you see what the general population, what percentage are asking of their body

or taking advantage of what the ability of their body. It's, you know, people are capable of amazing things. And it's hard to realize that when you're living in a time of convenience and you're never cold, you're never hot, it's a time of comfort. So I just, I like how hunting kind of strips out of way and you're actually out there seeing what you're capable of as a human. I think there's a, it's so powerful.

Yeah. I mean, look, we have a nature and if you take us outside of that nature, I think there's a, it's so powerful. Yeah, I mean, look, we have a nature. And if you take us outside of that nature, I think it's important to understand that nature, we take us outside of that nature. And inevitably, we will have side effects. And what we try to do is medicate those side effects away. So, you know, if you don't exert yourself, you don't get sunlight, you don't challenge yourself, you're going to feel anxious. Yeah. You know, and what we try to do is medicate that anxiety away because we're denying certain aspects of our nature. I don't challenge yourself, you're gonna feel anxious. Yeah. And what we try to do is Medicaid that anxiety way because we're denying certain aspects of our nature.

I don't think we need to go back and live like cave people. No. But it's important to understand that. And you take an animal out of its environment and they behave, you know, studying animals at the zoo is very different than studying animals. In the wild. In the wild, but very, very,

in fact, you fit animal grows up in the zoo and you put them in the wild, they'll starve to death. So I think that's the big problem, is we don't quite understand that at all, and then we wonder why we feel depressed or anxious or sad. And you know, just in our space, we go, we go do these interviews, and we went to these obstacle course race interviews, and you interview the

people doing these races, and they're like engineers they're like engineers and people that sit behind desk, why are you crawling across your belly under barbed wire and jumping over this wall into freezing water, like why are you doing this? And they don't know how to put it in the words. They just feel it feels great. Yeah. Because you've denied your nature so much,

you need this outlet. And hunting is something that, I mean, there's, hunting is very much in our nature. In fact, I wasn't asking this. You must laugh when you watch those, like those naked and afraid shows. Those were like, yeah, you ever watched the ones with us like a vegan?

Yeah, I'm out here to, I'm gonna try and survive, like let's tell them they last a ton. I don't eat, they'll eat anything. Yeah, it's not fun, right? It's like, mine not even be dead yet. And now I eat it. Yeah, it's not fun. It might not even be dead yet. And I'll eat it. Yeah.

So like collecting berries and twist. It's season poohs. It's easier. Right. I mean, it's easy to be passionate about, about when it's survival's on the line, all that's out the window. And you really strip down and you're like,

okay, this is what's important. I just need calories. I need to eat. Yeah. This is about survival. Of okay, this is what's important. I just need calories. I need to eat. Yeah. This is about survival. Of course, that's not everyday life. But I think, you know, you talk about being medicated. I, you know, I feel bad for, you know,

depressions on the rise. These mental issues are on the rise. Anxieties on, it feels like it's on the rise. But are those, what, are those people getting out of there wherever their apartment or their office or whatever are they exercising at all are they Getting you going on a hike and it's just like I don't think anything. There's no medicine that can be Coming in and getting a good lift for an hour, you know what I mean? No, it's like I don't those people don't feel I an hour, you know what I mean? It's like, I don't, those people don't feel, I don't think that, I mean, depression on people

that go to the gym regularly, I think is pretty low. You're right, actually, so, I've said this before, it's like people have headaches and they're taking, I be profan, but what they're doing is they're banging their hand in the wall. And so you gotta tell them, hey, if you stop hitting your hand in the wall, it would stop hurting, you don't have to keep taking

these pain kills. But yeah, studies show that exercise is at least as effective as medication at helping with the symptoms. But as you follow those studies along, exercise starts to outperform because obviously you become adapted to medications and receptors down and regulating last stuff. Whereas exercise continues to pay dividends. So it comes like anxiety and depression. It crushes because it's your nature.

You need to move. Yeah. What's your, what's your scariest place that you've ever hunted or scariest to, you know, experience? Scariest. Scariest. Well, when I was in Tanzania, I mean, so there's dangerous and scary to me.

So scary. We're gonna explain the difference, so there's dangerous and scary to me. So scary. Explain the difference. Yeah, right. They both scared me. Yeah, scary was in Tanzania. There's a lot of poachers there. And so they're having a lot of problems with poachers sneaking in and they weren't like them.

There was a dead elephant there, but they weren't necessarily the ivory hunters. They were after protein. So again, everybody here, you're hungry, you wanna go get a burger, you go, you can go to 10 different places, much different in Tanzania. So they have people that are out in the wild, killing animals for protein.

But they're sneaking on places that are not supposed to be. And so they'll kill these animals. They'll hang them up to dry out the meat, put the meat in gunny sacks, have straps on the gunny sack, and then take it back to town and sell it. And so that's, they're just after protein, but they will kill to get it. And, and there we were hunting one day and I looked about 150 yards away and I saw this guy standing there. And I said, you know, he was with the guy there. And I said, I said, I see a man. And he's like,

where? And I said, 150 yards standing right there. I said, he's not moving. And he goes, give behind this tree. And I said, we can get shot. He's like, just give behind this tree. So he yelled at him in Swahili and just said, leave. The guy didn't move. And so that was then I saw another guy, I told him I saw another guy up in the rocks take off. And so they have guns, I looked at binoculars, he had the guy down there had a gun, I didn't see if this guy had a gun around off the rocks.

But anyway, so they have guns. They're willing, it's in certain situations there if there's a risk, it's almost who can shoot first. The poachers or the hunters. Because they didn't want to get caught, they're willing to kill you, did I get caught? Right, right. And then of course you got to protect

Yourself so you know, it's whoever can shoot first almost so that was pretty intense I went up so the guy ended up circling around and he came about 50 yards when he's standing there and the reason why he came 50 yards Ways because they don't have bullets. They have a gun and they kind of have to make it into a muscle loader, which is essentially like old-style where you put gunpowder and a wad in there, then you put, they didn't have lead for a bullet so they'd put screws and ball bearings and things like that, and then they can make that go off,

but the effective range is very close. So he was 50 yards away from us because he had to get close to shoot. Anyway, the guy I was with told him, you know, leave and he did leave. And then I went up to where the guy was in the rocks. And I found a bunch of their stuff, a bunch of the stuff they're using for ammunition. And also this white powder and who I was with said that that white powder, that's what the witch medicine doctor says or witch doctor, I can't remember what he said, but back in the village, they'd put that on their wrists and on their neck and they say that would make

them invisible. So I think when the guy was just standing there, he thought he was invisible. And then he's just like, he's like, fuck my powders. These guys are yelling at me. See me. Yeah. So it's like, refund. Yeah. So they say they're going to be invisible. And that'll help them on the hunt. Right. So that's kind of their, their, their philosophy. Yeah. Rich will there. And anyway, so that point is that was pretty scary because I'm I'm I'm not used to To men and and I'm used to animals and yeah, I'm not really worried about that But the harder to read right? I don't know what a person's gonna do. You don't I mean

Humans are pretty unpredictable especially with weapons and so I didn't you know We ended up another time We're driving in the Jeep. We're going to try to find these buffalo. And I saw, I said poachered and it was about 80 yards away. And then the, you have to have a, it's like a, kind of like a game ward and there has to be one with like, like people from the United States over there hunting.

And there has to be one in the party. And as almost as soon as I said that, he shot. This guy behind me shot. And he's like, I got him. Whoa. And as almost as soon as I said that, he shot, this guy behind me shot. And he's like, I got him. Whoa. And I said, no, I was watching. I said, he goes, I got him in the leg. I said, no, you didn't get him.

And, but I mean, it was just like, just shoot. Shoot. Wow. So that was, that was, the wild, wild west, it feels like it. So that was a scariest, I guess you could say. And then the sheep hunting in Alaska, in super steep country, ice, snow, all that.

That's probably the most dangerous bears, bears have their own risk associated, but the mounds can win. You know, and you know. So the danger is the environment, not necessarily the animal. Falling, yeah. Falling. And so, and then that, that, that was the country that, that was 2008 I killed a ram there,

and then my, my best buddy got me into Belhund in 2015, he fell and he died there. So, it's just like, same, same country, but that's like for dangerous, that's about as dangerous as it gets just because you can't control, you don't know what's the situation's going to. Now, in a situation like that, does that also make that like one of your kills you're more sprouted or do you have a specific kill that was like, this was like the one most common is It's memorable for sure. I mean, they're all special in their own way. I mean, and sorry, some of you does a hunt,

probably sounds weird to say kill special, but killing an animal, it is life and death. It's, there's need to be some weight associated with it, like you're a burden you're carrying because you're taking this animal's life And so they're all when I say special I mean that it's meaningful Right, and they're all meaningful in a different way whether it was who has with the situation What I was going through at that time maybe personally

You know after Roy fell and died, you know the first hun hunts after he was gone who got me into bell hunting. Those had a different weight to them. So yeah, I mean, they'll, to answer your question, there's some that are more memorable, you know, me and Roy's last, last hunt is memorable. That sheep hunt was very memorable because it was pretty dangerous. The experiences in Africa are amazing, but then sharing Joe's first hunt when I took him or Hunter with Luke Bryan before for bear, those are memorable too.

Which I think, but yeah, I was just gonna say because of the way that you approach hunting and there's almost kind of a spiritual element to it. It's like you're bringing it back to ancestral ways of doing this. Have you ever been approached or been a part of like a native tribe, for instance, like being able to get in with the way that they kind of perform their rituals and go into the hunt and all that. Is that something that you've ever been a part of? I mean, I have a little bit of Cherokee in me, and I have actually a Cherokee card,

but it's not like I have a ton of Indian, but as far as... They make cards? Yeah, yeah, you can get it. Yeah, really? It was like a membership card? Yeah, oh wow. It's like at the tribe.

Oh, interesting, I love that., interesting. Yeah, so I have that But I do hunt the San Carlos Indian reservation every year. It's Apache and it's like the the premier Elkund in the country. It's like just magical country and When I go there, I have so much respect for the people and for their traditions and how they honor the animals and for the animals themselves in that country, but the country seems, I don't know, I feel more connected there than almost anywhere and I don't know if it's just in my head because, you know, we have this, you know, what was that movie with Daniel Day Lewis? Oh, young guns?

No, no, no, he was an in, oh, last week, last week, he was a little bit. Yeah, so I mean, I don't know if it's from watching shows like that forever. So you have it, you're kind of prepping yourself to like, okay, I'm supposed to be, just to feel something more special here. But when I've been there and looking into these big canyons

where not a lot of people hunt because it's so remote or so deep or whatever, and I'm like, I feel like I remember we were standing there before and the wind was blowing and I had in my head it seemed like the the mountains were moaning and that was the wind. And so I don't know if I'm making it up, but I feel something different there. And when I kill a bullet, there it's, I don't know if it's more meaningful, but it's different. And I think there's more of a connection. They have sunrise dances there,

and I was invited to one, but I haven't been to one yet. So they have ceremonies there that I'd love to be um if I'm allowed be part just at least um witness. And then you know even like we had this uh this she was I think I think she's full-budded a patchy but she would come in and cook I think she's full-blooded a patchy, but she would come in and cook. And so I would sit and talk to her and hear all the stories and talk about even the food she's making using the acorns there.

I mean, I'm just like, I can't get enough of that stuff. So yeah, I think, I think Hantene has made me more connected to the land and the animals and then Native American tradition has enhanced that event. So it's more about just the remoteness and you being immersed in the ultimate nature that not a lot of people get to experience. Yeah, I mean, when I hunt, if I see another boot track, I'm just like sucks. You always want to be think that you're like exploring or you're in, you know, you're me and Roy, who's my buddy who got me started hunting, we'd always want to go

for the next ridgers this draw to go further and deeper than anybody else and get it in this, you know, the promised land basically. So, yeah, I mean, that's always the draw is like the most remote, the most rugged where nobody else would want to go. And you're there, that's as good as this. Is that what led you to the ultra marathon? Yes, I mean, is that part of the strategy of that? If I can run and push this limits, I can go beyond most people?

Yeah, because with the way I grew up, it's all public land. So it's basically everybody's against everybody to find the best hunting area. And I learned pretty quickly that the mountains, you know, I hunt in the Eagle cap wilderness in Oregon, which is Oregon's largest wilderness. I mean, you guys have some bigger ones here, like the Trinity Alps wilderness is huge. And that's up in Northern California.

Marvel Mountains is a good one, but it's not as big. But the Eagle cap is 30 miles wide by 60 miles long. Big, big mountain range will allow mounds. They call them the little alps. They're super, they're rugged, deep, remote. And when I first started hunting there, I was like, God, this is, this is a lot. They'd break me pretty much. And it's very hard hunting. And so I think, and man, if I could run, I knew in my head, if I could run 100 miles, I could be anywhere back in here. I could hunt anywhere.

The mountains would never stop me. And so it was kind of connecting all this. And one didn't be the best I could be in the most rugged country that I learned in ultra marathonine. You know, it's just you just pushing yourself push push push way beyond what, you know, most people on marathon is like, oh my god, a marathon, which it is a big accomplishment, but it's nothing compared to a 100 mile or 200 mile or so. So once you take those shackles off about what you thought was extreme and then you're like,

wait, what people do, what? And then I was sitting, then you're doing it yourself because you've trained your body to do that. Then even in regular life, you have more confidence. I mean, you guys know, of course, you lift, you know, get a PR, bench 405 for whatever, you have more confidence of course you you lift, you know, get a PR Bench 405 for whatever. You have more confidence going to the store, right? Yeah, so it's the same thing It's like you can you can you know humans are so there's so many so much or so I don't know

So many factors weigh in to being a human and our minds are so powerful But you learn learn that confidence thing that you can gain in one thing, can carry over to other things. And it's, I don't know, that's running and hunting has done that for me in life. Totally. So when you're hiking in 20 miles,

which I'm assuming is not super crazy, you're going in 15, 20 miles to find the right place, or whatever, and you kill a 900 pound or 800 pound animal. How do you get it back? Yeah, so like, so if the animal has 900 pounds on the hoof, which would be a big bowl, you're going to have about, say, roughly 300 pounds of meat. So the guts you don't haul out, the hide you don't haul out, the bones you don't haul out really, like the ribcage or anything like that.

You might haul the leg bones because the quarters are attached to the leg bones. So you can bone it out, which means you take all the meat off and then you'll have 300 pounds of meat. So 300 pounds of meat, if you're by yourself, you can carry probably 100 pounds. It's going to be very hard if you're by yourself, you can carry probably 100 pounds. It's gonna be very hard if you're super deep. So you go, say, if you're 10 miles back. So you can 10 miles out with 100 pounds, 10 miles back empty. 10 miles out with 100 pounds, 10 miles back empty.

So what are we at? 40 miles there. Last load, 10 miles, 10 miles. So there's here, go back and forth. 60 miles. That's crazy. Wow. And 30 of it is with

100 pounds. Hardly anybody can do that. Hardly anybody can do that. That would be super extreme. So they either make more trips with lighter weight or they get pack animals, horses, mules, llamas even. We used to have llamas because horses were super expensive. So you could buy a llama for 150 bucks. They can carry, they could carry 60 or 80 pounds. Now the llama doesn't come with you on the hunt, right? Or do they? It was like back at camp. You leave them back at camp.

Got it, then you go get them and come back. Yeah, and llamas were good because like, if you have horses, you need a horse trailer. If you have a horse trailer, you need something to pull the horse trailer. So it's a lot of money involved there. What do you do with a llama? With a llama?

You're throwing the back seat away. You can put a llama. I've seen a llama in a station wagon. Shut the fuck up, that would joke. You're really good. Because I push them in and they're heads down like this. And it's just like, what? I have no idea.

Yeah, so people, so we would have a Toyota 2-wheel drive and made, we had no money, you know, we got to remember this, no money at all. But Toyota 2-wheel drive with plywood walls and have four llamas back. Shut the fuck up, that's awesome dude. I can just imagine seeing that drive by you on the freeway.

Oh, the fuck is this dude? We're talking about the stigma of hunters. Like we were really in that for hunters right there. They're like, look at these fucking hillbillies. That was us. Why didn't even know that was a thing, that's crazy. So any worry that a predator is gonna find your kill at that point, are you more vulnerable

because now you have a dead animal and then maybe they can smell. Like wolves come along? Yeah, I mean, it's, there's a risk, you know, with, you know, that's how they live. So, especially in Wolf Country, which we don't have a ton of ore again, they're, they're moving in now. Um, I don't think you guys have them here, maybe up in the Sierra's, maybe, but, maybe probably not.

Um, but yeah, I mean, bear country, you gotta get your meet up out of the off the ground in a tree And they can still get it if they want to but you're just trying to get that meet out as soon as you can Oh, interesting what has been one of the hardest Trex like that you're we were given the example of if you went 10 miles in you like what has been one of the hardest like halls for you I killed a I killed a bowl 12 miles back once I killed one 10 miles back once. Um, the 12 mileer I had I went I walked 10 miles I had these other new these other guys were on the other side of the basin. Well, other side of the range that we were hunting. So I went over to them and I said, Hey, I killed a bull. Can you guys help me get it out? I'll, you know, buy hotel rooms and pizza and all this. And so we all, we made one trip out 12 miles and then back

in and it's like that even that. Yeah. The guy who, uh, who I wrote over there with, I mean, that's a marathon, right? He's like, I'm done. Yeah, it's a marathon. He goes, I, I'm ready to go home. And I'm like, I mean, I killed an opening day, which is the first day of season. He was done. I gotta go home. It's just something. He got pizza though. Yeah, he did get pizza and he got a hotel room,

but it's, it is so hard. Yeah, could you not walking like on the like ground? 12, 12, 12. I mean, you're basically running a marathon hauling something. You're also going through like the woods and you're climbing on the sand. So I made a mistake on that one, which could probably cost him his hunt. But so the trail went around this whole ridge and down this thing in his 12 miles out.

And I was like, well, if we go over to the edge here and the river straight down and the road right on the other side of the river. I go, that's only five miles. Well, there's a reason why the trail doesn't go that way, right? But on the map, you're like, that's not very far. So we go over there and we're, it's turning ahead down and it's so steep and boulders and we got all this weight on our back. And he ended up falling in between these rocks backwards. And if he had been by himself, he would have been, there's no way to get out. Luckily, you know, and he could have hit his head

because you got a hundred pounds pulling you back and you fall. I mean, you could have hit your head and who knows what, you could have died. I'm not trying to be dramatic. But anyway, it wasn't a good situation, but we were there. So we've, you know, got all torn up,

going through brush, had to cross the river at the bottom, and it's just like, oh my God, that was, it was shorter, not easier. So it's the, you know, the point A to B isn't always the best route. And so anyway, that was, there's, there's just a challenge. Once you get an animal on the ground It's a whole another part of the hunt. Yeah, but your reward is great. I wanted to ask you like what in your opinion was like the best tasting me or like both the best tasting and also probably like not the best tasting as well like One versus the other out of all the animals Well my wife made liver last night, and I'm not a big organ.

I mean, it's like, oh no, you know how good this is for you. And I'm like, I know, I know, I know. I know, I heard it all, I'm not eating it. It's like, it's gonna be so good. So anyway, she made up this liver, and I hate onions too, but anyway, she made up all these onions. That was awful. Awful.

So I can't do that. Okay. A lot of people feel that way about bear, but I like bear meat. So I heard it's greasy. Am I, that's what everybody says. Okay. Yeah.

So I mean, so them eating berries is that play a factor in it? Yeah, so it depends on what the animal's eating. Yeah. If it's eating berries, it's going to be very sweet. If it's, it depends on the time of year, because a lot of times they're only eating berries and berries are in season. If it's a bear that's on, like in Alaska on salmon, it's not going to be as good, because it's just, or if it's eating. It's probably more fatty, would imagine. Well, they'll eat anything.

Yeah. If it's rotten, it doesn't matter. Like a mountain lion, they want fresh kills. A bear will eat, they could have maggots on it. And they'll eat it. So if you're eating a bear that's been eating maggots. I mean, that can be so good. Probably not good or bad.

But I killed this bear last year in Colorado that was eating acorns for in and it was eating those nonstop. I mean, it's so just gorging itself. It's a big old bore, which is a male bear. They, a, a, a, sour as a female, a bore as a male. And it's this big old bore we figured maybe 20 years old. And that meat is so good. And it's just like, you know, it'd be like,

so he was total keto. He's like all protein and just a beast, right? But the meat is just delicious. But as far as the, one of the best meals I've had, it's always been when I've killed a bowl in the mountains and stayed back and cooked the meat over the fire. Oh, right. Oh, interesting. And so, experience, the experience makes a back and cooked the meat over the fire. Oh, right. Oh, interesting.

And so, Well, experience, the experience makes a big difference. The differentiation of the ingredients. I think so. Of course, and the restaurants know that. You go to a restaurant. Yeah, you got the candle lights. Yeah, I think so.

You got to do whatever. You got to everybody's whispering, house of meals, sir. So it's like it's all about the setting, right? Well, for a hunter, you can't beat the setting of in the mountains where the animal lived and eating a backstrap would be like, it's like the t-bone, the backstrap is the muscles right alongside your spine. So, that's just solid stakes right there.

And that's, or a tenderloin is on the inside on the, like, it'd be right under your spine. And there's two tinder lines there, and that's the best of me, because it's in the body cavity. It's, you can like, almost, you got to cut it a little bit, but you can almost tear it off, and it's a piece of meat about maybe 12 inches long

by about three or four inches, and it's the best steak you'll ever have. So if you're cooking that on a stick over a fire and the mounds re-kill the animal. Can't be. Earlier you mentioned, I think you was a buffalo. You said it was black death. I think you named it a K buffalo. K. But now why is it one of the most dangerous? I've heard that they kill more people. Yeah. Okay. They killed a bunch of people. There's more of them, which is why is it just that they're super aggressive and they're aggressive. Yeah. And you've hunted them with a bow. Mm-hmm. I killed killed one and

2014 holy cow. Where do you try to hit an animal that big? I mean, I'm assuming in the chest somewhere, but yeah, lungs so So yeah, you want to get behind his behind his shoulder and then They have super heavy ribs almost like a two by four and that's their 158 800 pounds solid muscle, super thick hide, just pissed off. I mean, it's hot, they're black. It's like, it can be any more tougher conditions to live in that environment. It's just a harsh environment.

There's lions there. It is definitely survival of the fittest back there. Hain is, Hain is, are just ruthless. When an animal is, everything's tougher. The people are tougher. The animals are tougher. The country's tougher. Everything is tougher.

So trying to kill that with the arrow is, you know, I hit this bull good, 63 yards, made a good shot. And I was like, I put my arms up, I was like, oh, thank God, you know, it's so happy I made a good shot. And if, if that was an elk, I feel like it would have went 50 yards piled up dead in seconds. Bull took off, ran off. And I was just like, I said, did he go down? And there's like this big herd of buffles. And I said, did he go down in the guy I was with, said, I didn't seem go down named Ryan, as he was with.

And so, I said, let me get on that. You know, it's kind of hard, a bunch of buffle tracks. So we went around, I climbed up on this termite mound, which the termites make this big, like probably 10 foot high, climbed up there and I was looking and I could see him. And I said, okay, I see him, he's down. And Ryan goes, be careful, you know, there's a saying, I've seen a lot of dead buffalo kill guys. So people think they're dead. They get over there. They, it's not dead. You're dead. You know, because you get grounded in the, so I ended up, I had to, it wasn't the

prettiest thing, but it just happens. I had to shoot. I had one arrow left. I hit this bull every time in the chest. So tough. It was just taking them. And then so finally he said, he goes, if he gets up after this one, I mean, I've shoot him with a gun. And I said, I don't want you to shoot him with a gun. And I said, he's done. But I'd been saying he's done for the previous five areas. I don't know.

Anyway, he was done, but it was a tough animal. That's crazy. So for people like us who are interested, but zero experience, we got no experience with hunting whatsoever. What's a good place to start? For someone like us, you know, we're interested in the experience. Obviously we've never done this before in bow hunting or right or just hunting in general hunting in general I would assume that bow hunting is far more technical. So I'm assuming that's probably not the best place to start as a beginner or I don't know I'd love your well Yeah, bohening is harder. I think

But the thing is like with there's archery pro shops like how far San Diego from here is it it's pretty far Yeah, well, I'm sure there's an archery pro shop here in town I also know what it is. I just know of Bobby from owns the one down and and performance archery in San Diego But I know there's there's one around here. The thing about an archery pro shop is it's kind of like a bar. You kind of go, people go in there and hang out in BS. You can learn a lot just from BSing to hunters, you know. And also then you're shooting and you're kind of getting good at the discipline of archery, learning.

People will say, oh, you've never hunted? Well, you should check out this, people say, oh, you never hunted? Well, you should check out this, you know, whatever. With rifle hunting, maybe it's because I'm not a rifle hunter, but maybe a gun shop would be the same thing. I mean, I'm sure there's a gun shop here. I don't know if you guys have firearms, but that might be a place to go talk, but a lot of gun shops are just catering

like home protection or people with everyday carry and not always hunting. What archery pro shop is pretty much always hunting. So I mean, I would say one of the two, a gun shop or archery pro shop. Yeah, I've actually seen, there's this new, so you've heard of like Frisbee golf. So there's been like courses kind of set up like that with archery. 3D courses. Yeah, so that was something that I had just noticed. I didn't know if that was like a new thing.

No, that's been around forever. But that's another fun thing. So you go and they have these foam targets set up and they have a stake that you shoot from. And you get there, you go through your routine, you shoot an arrow at the target, you score it because there's different rings on the target, like, you know, hard as a 10, 8, 5 for a body shot. So yeah, and then that's where you talked to all the guys. They, everybody's new at one time, so everybody's kind of pretty helpful because nobody's born a great bow

on her. So it's like, it's like it's like it's everybody's been on that that that bottom of that learning curve. Yeah. I have to ask you this just because I heard a podcast where you're kind of talking about like some some Hollywood actors techniques. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. You're able to kind of break down, you know, their form and yeah. It's fun. Yeah. just maybe like a few of the best examples and worst examples, I guess. Yeah, I did that for GQ. The best was, I can't, God, it was actually a cartoon.

It was brave. Brave, you know, with the girl with the red hair. Oh, they got to take me to the other. She's nailed it. Really? Great technique. I was like, I was like this girl in shoes. Did you even just saw it? Did you like it? No. I wonder if that means what I would like, I was like this girl been shoot. The demon just saw it.

You like, no. Well, I wonder if that means what I would think, when you said that right away, and what came to mind, I bet you Disney actually probably, and they probably videoed a real good bowman, right? And then, yeah, and then probably, but they don't do that all the time either. Right, I think there's Robert De De Nero look like an idiot.

You know, and that was Kevin Koster. How's Robin Hood? Yeah. Robin Hood. That's right. I never saw that one. Oh, you didn't see that. I didn't, I never saw Robin Hood.

Uh, because he splits the arrow. I mean, he's, yeah, I mean, it's got to be better than his English accent though. That's what Brave did too. She, she split the arrow. Yeah, yeah. got to be better than his English accent though. That's what brave did too. She split the era. Yeah. Yeah. The bet was see who well Rambo is pretty cool. I love everybody love Rambo. Yeah. Yeah. But that wasn't good technique, was it? No, was it? He kind of he had the boat Can't do the little bit, which means it's not straight up and down. Yeah, it's kind of at an angle It's come like when you see the guys in the movies and shoot the gun like,

exactly. It's like, yeah, so you can't blow up a helicopter with it. Yeah, that's a hell of a thing. That's pretty badass when he did it. And I also love how shredded he was. And he was like, he's a beast. But, uh, God, I don't know. There's, who had the, God, sometimes,

she did train. What was that meant for a longer games? Oh, there you go. She trained. Yeah, so she did pretty good. So the kind of physical fitness that you need to be able to do these kinds of things, it sounds like a lot of just stamina, like just the ability just to endure

these long tracks and the ability to just kind of, you know, whether the environment a little bit. Sounds like that would be the most important. So if someone's listening and they're like, hey, this is someone I'm gonna get into. Strength is important, but you really want to have the ability to just be able to do this for a long period of time. Is that correct?

I think so, you know, there's kind of a analogy, or not an analogy, but I just know from experience, everybody's fired up the first day, the second day they're still doing pretty good, you know, get some miles in the first day, second day you might be a little beat up from all the miles the first day, you know, you kind of knew to the mountains

because you've been living in the city. Second day, maybe not quite as good. My thing is, I wanna be as good on the thing is, I want to be as good on the tenth day as I was on the first day, because on the tenth day I should be better, I should be more in tune with the mounds, I should have a better idea what the animals are doing because it changes all the time depending on the weather, depending on water, depending on feed, and whatever, if it's a breeding season or not. So I should be more dialed in on the animal and their behavior.

And I should be, if I have that endurance built up, I should be more mountain tough because I've been in there 10 days. Most people, they're good on day one, day two, a little bit less. By a 10th day, they're pretty much worthless. They're probably at home, by the 10th day actually. So, but if you can still,

if you had 10 days to hunt, which is, you know, a weekend, a whole weekend, another weekend, that's a long hunt. On that second weekend, you should be at your best. Awesome. Cameron, do you think hunting has made you a better father? Yeah, definitely. So that is absence makes a heart girl fonder, right?

So yeah, when you're in the mountains by yourself, oh my God, you think about every mistake you've ever made. You know, every, I'm gonna tell my kids I love them, I'm gonna, when I get home, we're gonna do this and I said I was gonna do this with them and I never did, you know, it's just like, you like, a lot of time to think, a lot of time to think, a lot of, but on the flip side, as I've seen guys

who maybe had an argument with their, with their old lady before they laughed with their girlfriend or whoever, and they get back there and you can make some crazy, I mean, she's having an affair. She is having an affair. She is having, I gotta get home. I know, you know, just because you've messed with affair. She is having an affair. She is having an affair. She is having, I gotta get home.

I know, you know, just because you've messed with yourself so much, right? You've over-analyzed everything, and it will screw up the hunt. So a big thing is making sure your home's in order before you go on the hunt. Oh, cause it's, yeah. I could just see that you're on your way out

and you're white and you're white. And I was like, hey, you didn't do that thing, I said, like, honey, we're about to leave them on. We can't get on your right now. I know, I know, yeah, cause, you didn't do that thing. I said, like, honey, we're about to leave them alone. We can't get out of here right now. I know, I know, yeah, because, but the thing is, is you just, we're so, I guess it's another point. We're so distracted in normal life. You know, when are you ever just sitting by yourself

thinking? So in the mountains, that's all there is. Absolutely. People aren't used to it. And I think I've written in a book, but one of my books is like, you find out who you really are with that much time by yourself.

And some people don't like that person. Yeah, you know what I mean? Oh yeah. It's just too real. And they're just like, okay, this is not for me. I can't do this, because humans nowadays kind of need that distraction.

It seems like. Do you find it very meditative. I do. Oh, totally. Yeah. Have you ever had like a spiritual experience doing this? Oh, I don't think so. I mean, just in general, I just feel more in tune and, you know, a deeper connection, I

guess, to why we're here and what we're supposed to be doing. And I mean, if you wanna call that spur, that's kinda spur, yeah, maybe. I've just, I never, I don't know, I just enjoy it. It's, I need it. I feel, I feel, we talked about, I hate talking. I hate podcasting, even though I've had a podcast. But I feel more at home in the mountains than I do.

I feel like a lot of times we just kind of go through it. I like meeting people. I like hearing people's stories, but I like being in the mountains more. So that's gotta be interesting for you then, because of all the attention and fame you have. I get well over a million people following you on social media you've been on TV How's that been because you're not someone who I think that would seek that type of attention. So how have you handled that has it been? Everybody likes attention, you know, whether you say it or not. It's like you want to be validated, I think

but What I like is I like sharing what hunting means to me. And I like sharing the positive aspects of hunting. I like exposing people to hunting in the lifestyle. So if I have to kind of weigh through the storm of some dipshit on Instagram, every once in a while to like in the end hunting winds. We move it in the right direction a little bit. We break that stigma or the stereotype. I can deal with that.

I would rather be in the mountains with somebody exposing them to something or sharing something with them or like running. I like running, you know, if I can, I like finding the very best at whatever it is they do and training with them in the mountains, you know, like the coordinates of ultra runner best in the world, or there's other girl I run with Emma, she's a Olympic steeple chaser, gogons, of course, these people that I can, I can become a better person just by being around them and seeing how their mindset is.

How savage is Goggins? Yeah, I've always said, I go, we don't need a bunch of Goggins around. I mean, it would be a rough go if there's a bunch of Goggins walking around there. It's just the moralizing. Yeah, he's tough. I mean, the thing about him is like what I said on Rogan II

is when it gets harder, he gets better. I mean, he gets in and he talks about this. It's like there's the David and then there's the Goggins. And I saw it firsthand. It's like he flips his switch and he's doing more reps at the end than he was doing at the beginning. That's wild. Yeah, it was.

And then after all that, then he does 100 pull-ups every day to finish the thing. And then in the Ultramarathon, he was having some issues with his feet. You know, Ultramarathons do this at therapy feet. It was raining and snowing. He had to take a shoe off,

and normally if people are messing their feet, it's like not a good sign. We were 20 miles down. But by the end of it, he was, I, he moved ahead of me going up to Slas Hill. And so he's ahead of me and I got up there. I had this guy filming it and I asked him. I said, Hey, I said, how did, how did Goggins look?

He's like, he looked good. He came through here with, he had no shirt on and was raining and snowing. And he's like, he's yelling, they don't fucking know me. And I was like, who's yelling to? And they're like, there's nobody up here. Just in the air. So he got better at the end.

And it's just like, that's funny. What do you guys eat when you're out there for that long? Do you guys bring, do you have to bring food with you or do you, like, just fast for a lot of that? You know, your body needs calories, unless you, unless you, some people get fat burning and they get keto and they, they do, their bodies can run and just one guy that I've run with

before, he's run a hundred miles and 18 hours on no calories. Most people, and you guys know it, even if you're gonna lift for a while, you wanna get some calories if you have the shake or something else. But when you're running for sure, you wanna get 100 calories an hour or something like that.

That's what those gels are all about. Those gels have 90 calories, and towards the end of a race, you can pump that 90 calories of carbs in and push you over. So yeah, you can pump that 90 calories of carbs in and push you over. So yeah, you wanna get some in, depending on the length of the race. If it's a 200 mile multi day race, then yeah, you gotta eat,

you gotta stay up on the calories because once you fall behind, you're never catching up. So on these long hunts, do you bring stuff like that with you too? Okay, same stuff. Yeah, of course. How was hunting with Luke Bryan? How was he? Is he cool?

Yeah, oh no, he's great. He's a great just Georgia boy. Just nice as can be. He had never really hunted bear, so it was pretty intense. It was pretty fun, but he had a show. He had two shows in Edmonton, and I hunt Albert every year. So he had a day off, I think he had, think it was Friday and a Sunday show in Edmonton.

So we had one day and he didn't get a bear but we saw a bear and we're close to bear. And it was pretty fun. How did you guys link up? I mean, did he reach out to you? Were you guys friends before? How did that happen? My buddy Rick Carone was friends with him.

It kind of introduced us. I think it was through Rick mostly. He had a hunting show too, or Mike maybe still does called Buck Commander. It's on that door channel. Him and Al Dean and some other Mike Pro baseball players. And so Rick Carone would film for them. That was my friend. And he's since died of cancer. He had pancreatic cancer, but he introduced us and so we kind of went on some hunts together. Have any of these guys that you've taken on hunts

like that, I mean, you've taken so many people, have they turned, I mean, like, turned into lifelong friends like Joe. Is Joe like the only one or has there been other guys that have turned into big friends? No, I mean, you know, anytime you go through something real like that, it could imagine. It's a bond. Yeah. It's the same thing like a long hard race or like

Mean Goggan's training or a hunt like this. It's not just like, hey, let's go go to dinner. You know, there's to be go to dinner with. You haven't experienced the care if you want to even ever see again. And with hunting, it's not, it's like you have that thing because you got this common goal you're after and you're willing to help each other out to get there. And that's, you know, I think people in the military have that a lot. They do know. And it's like a brotherhood. Yeah.

Well, it's, I don't want to, I don't want to say it's like that, but it's, it's similar. Yeah. No, you're a good friend to have because if the shit it's the fan, you know you're gonna survive. You know what I mean? There's no food. There's no food. We'll get full of zombies.

My buddy can get us food for fun. It feels good because you know what this whole COVID thing hit originally. You remember that the meat was gone. There's like pretty shelves were pretty bare, and meat was like a thing. So I did hook people up with meat and that felt good. As hunters and communities way back when,

hunters were providers. And so I've always, I like that mindset about, I killed this, here you go. There's something powerful about handing people meat. Do you pretty much do that every time? Because I know the friends that I know that were big into hunting almost every, every kill they would come back and normally give some to some of friends and stuff.

I think it's like almost every hunter I know does that. Yes, they can unseid rule. It is. It's like, because like I said, and part of community was hunters provided. Interesting. Yeah, did they restrict hunting when the pandemic started or was that?

No. Okay. I'm sure they wouldn't be able to even if they tried it. I think, no, they, well, yeah, I mean, I think in Washington, I think there was a spring bear season and for some, I don't even know how it makes sense that they didn't, like, you couldn't go fishing by yourself on a lake. He's like, what? What? Why are you limiting that?

It's like, yeah, you limiting that? Yeah, just retarded. So the truth, we gotta rest it down. You can, you can hump, but you gotta wear a mask. Yeah, I don't know. So I think they, I think some states lost a couple seasons or a season or two. I know we couldn't go to Canada, so Canada lost all their

out of like the, from the guys from the States going up there. They lost a lot of money that outfittered and guides up there. Oh yeah. Out of like the from the guys from the States going up there. They lost a lot of money that outfitter guides up there. Hmm. Good deal. Well, Cam, it's been great, man. Great, everyone. Very, very interesting. Again, this is, uh, personally, we've just have lots of questions we've been talking about this ourselves and we got to ask one of the best. So, thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, appreciate you having, having a war black today. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know glad we got that text. Oh, I didn't notice that. Look at that. Yeah. Now this is great.

I mean, I'm honored to be on the show and thank you and I love this. I mean, love what you guys are doing and appreciate it. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you very much. That's great. Good time, dude. Thanks.

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