Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1831: What to Do When Fat Loss Stalls, Machines Vs. Free Weights, the Pros & Cons of Explosive Vs. Controlled Movements & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. Welcome to Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live colors questions, but this was after a 45 minute introductory conversation where we covered fitness and current events, our lives, studies, and much more.

Starting point is 00:00:29 By the way, you could check the show notes for time stamps if you want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this, you can email your question to live at mineputmedia.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by our sponsor Ned. They make the highest quality hemp oil extracts. You'll find anywhere. So these are products that help people,

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Starting point is 00:01:52 Also, we're running a sale all month long for the entire month of June, which obviously it's summertime. People are trying to get lean. We put together our best get lean programs in a bundle, and then we discounted it. So here's the bundle. It's called the Shredded Summer Bundle. This includes maps aesthetic, maps hit, maps prime, and the intuitive nutrition guide.

Starting point is 00:02:11 That's the part that helps you with diet. All that together is in the Shredded Summer Bundle. It's discounted, and then what we did is we took an additional 50% off. So it's discounted twice. Now, if you just want to try one maps program, you're not ready for a bundle. You want to try one, but you also want one that's great for fat burning in a short pretty time. Try maps hit high intensity interval training. That program is also 50% off. Okay, so if you're interested in either one or both, go to maps fitness products.com and

Starting point is 00:02:39 then use the code June 50. That's June 50 with no space for that discount. Teacher time! And it's teacher time! Oh shit, you know it's my favorite time of the week. We have three winners this week, one for Apple Podcasts, two for Facebook, the Apple Podcast winner is RPD775 and for Facebook, Ryan Johnson and Thomas Freestone. All three of you are winners. Then the name I just read to iTunes at mindputmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address

Starting point is 00:03:12 and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Lifting weight belts. Do they improve safety? They make it safer? Yes and no. In some cases, they do. In other cases, they make things much more dangerous. Oh, you do want to be more controversial than that?

Starting point is 00:03:26 Well, I think this is a good point. You're going to say something more alarmist. Yeah, well, you know, why I want to talk about this? Because it is true that you can lift more weight with a weight belt. So that makes the heavier weight safer. But here's the other side. When you train with a weight belt often, it teaches your core to activate in a way to where it's more stable with a belt on,

Starting point is 00:03:48 and you actually lose stability or lose the ability to stabilize without the belt on. I feel like we're training dependency. Yeah, I see. We should let Justin open this one because he would have said something like, if you use a weight belt, you're a whim. You're doing it wrong.

Starting point is 00:04:02 Yeah. Just a fend offend fellow people. Yeah, I mean, obviously for competitors and whatnot. But again, for average person, I could make an argument that it's like, I wouldn't recommend it. No, actually, I've only had, I mean, my whole training career,

Starting point is 00:04:17 two clients ever use weight belts. And they were the ones that were really interested in progressing weight and they're getting real strong. And I'd explain, you know, the potential risk and benefits. But what happens with a weight belt is, and I remember, there's these old studies that came out, I say old, now they're probably 10 years old that came out that said, hey, your core activates as much or more with the weight belt

Starting point is 00:04:37 than without. Therefore, weight belts don't decrease core stability. It's like, okay, that's not the full picture. Yes, it's active, but it's active differently. When you wear a weight belt, your core pushes out against the weight belt and the belt creates stability. When you don't wear a weight belt, it braces itself and it's not pushing out against something.

Starting point is 00:04:55 So if you try to brace your core, like you have a belt on when you don't, not a good idea. So you're lifting something, having a real life and you're trying to use that same technique and you're bracing outward, you're gonna put yourself in a vulnerable position. And that's why this is so important.

Starting point is 00:05:09 Is that exact reason right there? You get really strong. Let's say you can squat and deadlift three, four, 500 pounds and you do it always wearing a waypeel and then you go to pick up a 80 pound couch and you throw your back out because you can't brace your core properly. Yeah, because you think you can't. You can't.

Starting point is 00:05:25 You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't.

Starting point is 00:05:33 You can't. Right. You think you're stabilizing pattern is so conditioned to the belt that you go lift something light and it's the wrong way to stabilize because you don't have the belt on. So I almost never used them with clients. Like why? Why would I? There's no real purpose.

Starting point is 00:05:42 Now, if I'm training somebody who's going to compete with the belt or really we're pushing the weight and we understand the challenges, but also even look, I wear a belt because I was taught to wear a belt. So I've been doing it for so long that it's, I don't, this is my own personal thing. I don't wanna take the time, which will probably take me two or three years

Starting point is 00:06:00 to get to the kind of strength that I can use my belt by training a new recruitment pattern. So I just, whatever. However, if I deadlift, it's really my top sets that I wear the belt. I don't put the belt on until I get past 400 pounds. Up until then, I usually keep the belt off because I don't wanna always wear the belt.

Starting point is 00:06:19 And you see people in the gym who will wear it when they do curls and try to press down and it's like, oh man, you are conditioning yourself to stabilize in a way that's not a good idea. So I know this was like popper in the 80s. I think it's sort of made of resurgence, but like wearing the belt constantly sort of, there's this idea that it's like slimming the boxy waist right in the bodybuilding community. Yeah. That's still a thing. I think that's part of it. I also think it's kind of a fashion statement.

Starting point is 00:06:45 I think it's become like part of your... A tire. Yeah, your tire as a bodybuilder, right? You come in with your duffel bag, your belt is over your shoulder, your shake of cup is in your eye hand. Remember when you did that video game TikTok thing? Remember that?

Starting point is 00:06:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's totally that. Where are you in a form? You're wearing your atomic. Yeah, it's become kind You're wearing a uniform. You're wearing your atomic. Yeah, it's become the bodybuilding uniform and you just want this as gym heroes. And you say you wear, I mean, you never use it. I rarely use it and you still rarely use it

Starting point is 00:07:16 but use it a little bit more. I use the most, that was it. Yeah, you definitely use it. I use it for heavy squats, dead lifts, and if I go heavy on an overhead press. But I would say you and I use it the same way. You just use it, you lift heavier than I do more often. I don't lift that.

Starting point is 00:07:28 You lift a lot, you tend to push the weight a lot more than I do these days. I can't use to, when I was competing and I was pushing weight a lot more, I tended to do exactly what you do, which is I always had my workout towards getting closer to my max when I started to approach those top sets, you know, last two sets of a squad or a deadlift,

Starting point is 00:07:49 I might put my belt on. If it is a day when I'm trying to push those limits, because there's other times where I'm lifting heavy and I won't use a belt either. It just, it have to be a day when I'm trying to push with my Mac close to my Mac. By the way, those bodybuilding weight belts are terrible. The stabilization from a belt,

Starting point is 00:08:03 a lot of people don't think it's from the back of the belt. It's not, comes from the front of the belt. That's where the core pushes out. So those bodybuilding belts with the skinny front and the wide back. Yeah, wide back. You're not, they need to be thick all the way around. If you're gonna use it for that particular purpose.

Starting point is 00:08:19 I've always wondered about that, yeah. Cause every time one of those on is like, oh, this doesn't feel good at all. And every once in a while, you actually catch somebody who knows that and they'll actually wear it reverse. Yeah, reverse. That's how I know like somebody knows her shit

Starting point is 00:08:29 because they'll be wearing, everyone else think it's backwards. Like, oh, there's wearing his weight belt backwards, but he's got one of those skinny bodybuilder belts where it's skinny in the front and then it's wide in the back and he actually flips it around. I do get it, you get a powerlifting one that's, you know, all thick, kind of all the way around.

Starting point is 00:08:45 But as far as the waste thing is concerned, you know, you got to understand when you're talking about pro bodybuilders who they have a level of muscle and size in their body. Nobody, most people will never achieve even with all the drugs in the world and whatever. You just never get to that point. Their muscles build so much and they're trying to develop a physique that's perfect for bodybuilding standards, which is not what most people would consider looking good in real life. That wearing something to brace your core causes the core muscles to atrophy,

Starting point is 00:09:15 or at the very least, not build. So I can see why they would say, it helps prevent my waist from growing because if you're at 280 pound bodybuilder and everything is hyper and ab ballac on your body, and you want to shape your body the way you want and you're at that extreme level, then you don't care about your necessarily performance

Starting point is 00:09:33 or health, then obviously because you're 280 pounds, you're gonna wear things that atrophy certain parts of your body like a queen, which isn't even extreme. It's promoting a shape. That it's not necessarily- It's weird though that it got popular. It's like, and I know we've picked on him a couple of times,

Starting point is 00:09:49 but he just to me, he fits this physique so perfect. Like Jeremy Bundia, who was like a men's physique champion for several years, he had that look because he wore it all time. And I just, I didn't think it looked good. His obliques were like straight. Yeah. It just, you had no muscle definition there because he wore that all the time.

Starting point is 00:10:04 And yeah, it might have made his waist to a fraction of a quarter of an inch smaller or whatever, but I don't know. There's somebody that understands the body and stuff like that. I think that like a defined obliques. It's not like obliques grow like this, right? Like you just get this, this is how the muscle wraps around the body.

Starting point is 00:10:21 Like it would create this kind of look which would only enhance the V, which would only enhance the V, which would only enhance the taper look. I always thought it was really funny that, and I don't know where it came from, where if it was a judge that told a competitor that decided to try and do that or how it became popular. It became a generic anomaly, had a really small waist, and that became the next standard. I don't know, I don't know. But it's- I don't know man, I would all day long trade a quarter of inch on my waist for developed obliques.

Starting point is 00:10:51 I don't care if I lose a quarter of an inch on my, and that's a lot by the way, to develop your obliques to the point where you actually grow your waist by a quarter of an inch is rare, okay? Cause they don't grow, like you said, they don't grow out necessarily this way. You have to really build your obliques to the right.

Starting point is 00:11:02 To direct your spining and obliques, dude, that's like what looks strong to me. Oh, yeah. You're an athlete guy. That's why those are very important muscles. Oh my god. Athletic physique. Absolutely. Look, for sure. You ever look at sculpture of Hercules, ancient like old sculpture of Hercules, or ancient Greek sculpture? Yeah, they all have boxy hips. They have well developeddeveloped obliques because in those days,

Starting point is 00:11:27 they understood how muscle looked for function. And they noticed that athletes and gladiators and whatever, that could swing a sword and move. They got really well-developed hips and well-developed oblique muscles. That's what they put on the statues. And in real life, Yeah, it looks awesome.

Starting point is 00:11:42 In real life, when you see someone with their shirt off, if their waist is a half an inch smaller, but they have no developed bleaks or a half an inch bigger, but well developed bleaks, forget bodybuilding stages. In real life, it looks more impressive. That's why I think it's weird that it got popular in the space. I never personally heard a judge say that. I never heard a judge go like, oh, if your waist was smaller, you know, that you would have, you would have placed higher or whatever like that.

Starting point is 00:12:06 So I just, I think it's, what ends up happening is I think that, like for example, our friend Craig Caperso has a very boxy physique. It's also what made him a beast, man. I mean, the dude is an athletic monster. Yeah, he's sick. Yeah, right.

Starting point is 00:12:22 But when you put him next to someone like me who's tall and lean and has a very tiny waist, I look like I have this more pronounced feet taper. So I think it's just people that are built that way, looking at people that are built, kind of me thinking that, oh, that's the way to achieve that. What has nothing to do with the ball?

Starting point is 00:12:38 Have you guys ever seen, there's a body builder from the 80s? I think it's Doug, maybe you'll look him up. I think his last name was Buchanan. Look up small waste bodybuilding Buchanan. And he had, and it was genetics, obviously. I had a genetically. So it was bees in there. I know.

Starting point is 00:12:53 He had a genetically small, like narrow, but crazy small waste. And that's genetics, you're thinking it developed. Oh, when I vacuumed in, I could almost get my, yeah, yeah, yeah. When I vacuumed, when I was lean for a show and then vacuumed all the way in, I could almost get my, yeah, yeah, yeah. When I vacuumed, when I was lean for a show and then vacuumed all the way in, I could almost get my fingers to touch.

Starting point is 00:13:09 You don't waste, yeah. Wow. That's how I was messing with your shoulders all developing that. Yeah. But I mean, and here's the thing though, it's getting a pick you up by your waist like this. Great, great for getting on stage and prancing around,

Starting point is 00:13:21 but horrible for being a really strong lifter. The cost of all this guy's waste was, you can see, he was known for, I mean, but that's genetics. You ain't gonna get, you ain't gonna develop that. Yeah, and that's what I mean. I think, so I think people, I think what happened was you had the bodybuilding community would see this, and then you would be somebody who had like this,

Starting point is 00:13:37 like wider hips, and you go, oh, I need to shrink my waist and so I'm gonna do this stupid, try it. It's gotta be the comparison thing, right? Like, yeah, and also too, it wasn't there a period where there was like this distended kind of gut that was happening because it growth hormone and all that. That still happens. Yeah, that still happens from,

Starting point is 00:13:55 they think it's from combination of the drugs. Like insulin, and what, insulin growth hormone, and they also think, believe it or not. Growth hormone makes everything grow. Your forehead grows grows your organs grow And you take enough at the bodybuilder doses of that growth hormone You got to think all those intestines and all you ever look at your bones. You ever look at a picture of Barry Bond head Yeah, his head when you started baseball. Yeah, when he left. No, I'd love to see the comparison though right here

Starting point is 00:14:20 Oh, bro his head before and after, I don't know, you can build your skull. So he did. You know, the teeth will space out. Okay, so now, okay, pretend we have a situation where we're training someone that relatively new in the space are into lifting. And where is a scenario where you would actually even allow your client or encourage your client

Starting point is 00:14:45 to potentially use a belt and where would you for sure tell them, no, what's that look like? I would use it so rarely, but the times I dug was a client, for example, I used a belt at times and it was because you started to get really strong. And we had a lot of fun pushing the weight. And so I said, do you want to use a belt? We could lift more weight. We'll start to push your goal.

Starting point is 00:15:02 His goal was to go, I think your goal was double body weight at one point And then two and a half times body weight. Yeah. Oh, Doug, you used to belt. I did. Oh, I've never seen a belt on you Oh, I never wear them now. He doesn't but at that time His goal was to deadlift I thought it was a four hundred pounds four oh five was four oh and he hit it. Yeah, that's your purse My purse Oh my belt. Yeah, it was a Gucci leopard bread belt.

Starting point is 00:15:27 Give it. But I mean, he pulled four or five at 150 pounds body weight. Yeah, absolutely. Significant, but I mean, the goal was to be strength. And I had one of the client that I would do that with. Yeah, I think knowing what I know now, I actually wouldn't, the only person I would is if we had the desire to get into powerlifting.

Starting point is 00:15:44 Yeah, solely if you, if you came to me and you is if we had the desire to get into powerlifting. Soly, if you came to me and you said, I have a desire to get into powerlifting and in the meats that you decided to lift in, allow belts or straps or any of those tools. Any of those competitive settings require that. Because you have strong men training on some degree. That's right. You have to learn how to use the tool right, also,

Starting point is 00:16:06 using a belt, you don't just put it on and all of a sudden you feel way stronger. There's actually a skill to use. No, some people actually feel a decline. If you've never lifted with a belt, you've been lifting for 10 years. John said, I can tell he feels uncomfortable. I've seen him wear a belt once or twice.

Starting point is 00:16:19 He tried sometimes. He prefers to take it off. Just because you didn't even work for me. Yeah, you have to develop the skill and the practice of it. So no, what you said is that's the right answer, 100%. But you know, like I said, Doug was like really pushing it and obviously at that time we were doing Max Phantabolic together and he's like,

Starting point is 00:16:35 I really want to be able to pull, you know, two and a half times my body weight. And so we said, all right, let's use a belt and let's see what happens. But now he never uses one because he's in care. Yeah, I think the myth that and why it's still popular, even though like it was obviously we know we address the body, but I think but why? Normal people gravitate is they they have this idea of like, oh, if I'm going to start getting strong and lifting heavy

Starting point is 00:16:54 weight, I'm going to use a belt to protect my back. No. That's the I think that's the thought process on what leads. Yeah, what leads a novice lifter who is getting stronger to go use a belt is the thought process of, oh, I'm going to start lifting heavier weight. A belt is going to help support my back. So in case it gets a little risky, I have that support. Same reason why you see sometimes construction workers or people at Home Depot and they're wearing the construction belt where it's actually a weight belt with straps. And what they don't realize is they're actually at construction belt, where it's actually a weight belt, both straps and shoulder. And what they don't realize is they're actually atropping those core muscles

Starting point is 00:17:30 and teaching their body to rely on that device. So although it might feel more stable at first, over time, it actually, well, not a good one. Two, I mean, in that situation a lot of times, like they've gained weight, you know, they already are having like back issues at own because they're, you know, maybe more sedentary than all of a sudden now, they already are having back issues at home because they're maybe more sedentary than all of a sudden now.

Starting point is 00:17:47 They're in an environment like that where they have to live constantly. And so the thought is, well, let me just protect myself with that instead of training their core gets stronger to be able to handle. Yeah, totally. Anyway, I wanted to bring up a cool article I thought about at them immediately, but I'm not going to tell you, I'm going to use the scientific term and I'll tell you what they're doing. So scientists were able to revive tardigrades, tardigrades in, they were frozen in permafrost. So they were frozen in permafrost for 2,400 years. 24,000 years, my bad. So 24,000 years, tardigrades, these tardigrades,

Starting point is 00:18:27 were frozen in Siberian permafrost. They took them out and they were able to be resurrected. Come back alive. You want to know what else they're called? You love these animals. We brought them up before it. They were on the moon at one point. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:39 Water bears. Yeah, you see, because we left traces of them on the moon. Yeah, for some reason, these little microscopic animals just don't die. What do they do? They do look like little worm there. What are they in charge of? I don't know what they run. They don't have a purpose, don't they?

Starting point is 00:18:59 They do anything, Doug? They don't know. Or they just eat there. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. What is it like? Yeah, like a mole. You know what they're, so they're called water bears

Starting point is 00:19:08 and they're also called moss piglets. Moss piglets. They look like it, right? Let's say moss. So what do they do? What does it say here? Okay, there are nature's pioneers colonizing new potentially harsh environments

Starting point is 00:19:21 providing food for larger creatures that follow. Oh, so they're the first kind of food. Well, you're first, the first responders of, so do they can live in extremes, so basically space, they can hibernate then in a sense of reanimate. Yeah. Dude, space, you could put, you could put them in a, freeze them, you could put them in hot temperatures. Now you said we found them in the moon.

Starting point is 00:19:42 No, we, we didn't find them on the moon. That would have been life on them to the planet. Yeah. We accidentally spilled some on the moon. No, we we didn't find them on the moon that would have been life on them to the planet We actually spilled some on the moon. I think we brought them up there Absolutely like contaminated like yeah, so how did we figure that out? Because we brought them up there. Oh like we look like in a jar You literally bought these On the ship I think yeah, I don't think they brought them in a jar I don't know how they brought them, but I know that we dropped them on the moon. It sounds like a real fishy story to me.

Starting point is 00:20:07 So, okay. I'm assuming these things are so tiny we can't see them to the naked eye. I believe so, microscopic. Yeah, of course. Yeah, microscopic. So, you, we get to the moon. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:20 We actually need to drop some of them. Okay, let's back up here. How do we, we decide? Hey, let's pick up some of those water bears and let's go to the moon. No, I wasn't a decision. I think it was just, or they carry, we carry them on us. No, no, no, things properly. No, no, I think we took them on purpose. No, it looks like an Israeli mission

Starting point is 00:20:40 and a crash landed on the moon in 2019. No, we took them on purpose because water bears, water bears are great organisms just to take to harsh environments to study because they don't die very easily. Okay, but they crash landed on the moon and because these things don't freaking die theoretically. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:58 Who knows what the, you know, 50,000 years would could happen with these. Well, because isn't there another organism that's like, you know, survives in super harsh conditions. It's like, you know, survives in super harsh conditions. It's like, you know, in the sea floor, where there's these columns that come up from like, Oh, they're like the tubes, or what?

Starting point is 00:21:14 Yeah, like tubes. Those are like some kind of polyp, or like, yeah, they're organisms that live in like, like the most acidic, like, I know you're talking about. Harsh. Aren't jellyfish like that too or no? No, jellyfish are weird though, man. They live forever though.

Starting point is 00:21:27 I think jellyfish, I think theoretically, a certain types of jellyfish could live forever. But that's why this is silly. We've already discovered this life on other planets. It's just like, it's lame life. Well now we haven't discovered life. What life do we find on other planets? Mars in bacteria.

Starting point is 00:21:44 We found evidence that there may be life, but we haven't found life. That life do we find under the planet? The Mars in bacteria. We found evidence that there may be life, but we haven't found life. That would be the biggest news of all time. Dude, they found, okay. Evidence of it. Yeah, evidence of it. That like, there might have been. It's, to me, that's ridiculous

Starting point is 00:21:59 because all it needs is a comet to smash into, in spread it, some kind of bacteria some kind of like or like Water bear organism. Yeah water bear whatever and there it is Speaking of that. So remember a long time ago wait for this transition there was a They called it the cigar like comet. Yes, you remember that yeah, okay, so like Despeculate that is like a UFO and yeah, so the cigar like comment. Yes, you remember that? Yeah. Okay. So like, and then they started to speculate that it was like a UFO. So apparently there's like pictures from Google Earth of like a crashed

Starting point is 00:22:33 vessel or whatever it was. And it looked like it was that cigar shaped objects that had actually landed and then and then skidded across. And then and then there's like, it fits that perfect shape and dimension of what we saw in the sky. So they never reported it? Yeah, so it's in Antarctica somewhere. Of course. In our cars everything. With the HIT and Nazi superbases.

Starting point is 00:23:00 That's what it was. There's a theory that there's a Nazi superbasists. Underground. I can't believe you guys had the space in those brains for this type of That's just way more interesting Which what is going on in in politics and government? You guys could have been have all this good a building a different department for this business Listen that that's wasted space. I have no idea. I don't know their Marriage I don't know the history of every tennis shoe ever invented.

Starting point is 00:23:25 I don't. Yes, you do. You're always telling me like the history of shoes. This is the seventh generation. Actually, the third generation, the creator, his mom died. So he was inspired by what the f**k. I didn't know. I had a designer took it on and now selling it for like three times.

Starting point is 00:23:42 Yeah, I'm rice. But it normally was just by adding these little items on it. You're in two ways or in two. Yeah, that's fair. Anyway, funny that you guys found each other. I'm so happy for you. We all found each other.

Starting point is 00:23:55 Do we hug sometimes out of the fog guys? I think this happened. I mean, I do like, there's a part of me that likes hearing about it. I mean, I'm curious. Like, and I can say, you know, nothing's going gonna catch you by surprise with just you're that is true actually no I'm some weird shit. Yeah, someone brings me as conspiracy. I'm like, oh, yeah, the guys talked about that If the news comes up and they're like, you know pig human crossbreeds taking over the earth I knew it Bill Gates is now in the business of manipulating the weather

Starting point is 00:24:19 Wow You heard first. That's the new one actually. I just saw that. I just saw the weather fucking one. Really? Yeah. Is it harp still or is it somehow? Something else like, yeah. So moving his attention from the choir. Is it all the farmland now to like, yeah, I mean, he's such a humanitarian.

Starting point is 00:24:36 Oh, yes. I mean, he is, look, I'm on paper. The guy's an incredible philanthropist. He's the biggest. He's the biggest. He's the biggest. I far. Yeah, by far, I think. A lot big one. I far. Yeah, by far.

Starting point is 00:24:45 A lot of controversy though around him. Yeah, a little bit. I listen to his, his white Melinda's interview with David Letterman. I mean, I won't go down the rabbit hole that you guys haven't watched all his stuff. I only watched his relationship with Epstein. I only watched the one with Ryan Reynolds because Jess goes with me. So which one do you think she picked? Ryan Reynolds.

Starting point is 00:25:03 That one actually was really funny. I watched that one. We need to watch this one, Sal. I'm like, oh, I wonder why. But I think you think that you're back to your weather talk. Your tinfoil had stuff. I think China, I think that article I read said that China is already doing this. Yeah, they do cloud seeding. That's better. So now they have like drone technology. I guess it would be like we have electrical like impulse and they stimulate it somehow that way.

Starting point is 00:25:27 It tickles the clouds. It makes a big noise. It sounds so made up. That's, hey, clouds seem to be going to picture that. It's like that though. It's a real thing. It's science. Yeah, and that noise happens immediately after it.

Starting point is 00:25:44 We've known we can see clouds for a long time. The problem is we can't predict if it's going to work or not, or we're going to cause some flooding somewhere else. Yeah, but you know, Cheyda, they're like, get the water down. Let's just see what happens. Yeah, let's just go for it. I know. Have you guys seen the plants,

Starting point is 00:25:57 speaking of Tim, have you seen how they, like, there's plant, like speculation or talks about how we could potentially spray certain things into the air to help lower the temperature because of climate change. I'm like, this was the matrix, dude. That's what they did to the freaking machines, yeah, darkened the skies. Can we learn it from movies? Maybe he's teach us a lot. It's just weird to me to think to spray some chemical in the air to try and change the temperature and not think that that might have some sort of side effect. Oh, we sprayed too much.

Starting point is 00:26:25 Yeah. I'll answer it. Anyway, it works. Speaking of plants, just read a study on THC. So did you guys know that THC reliably, negatively alters your vision. Negatively. Now why would they prescribe it for glaucoma? THC.

Starting point is 00:26:43 Glaucoma is totally different. So glaucoma's internal pressure in the eyeball and it does alleviate that. But in this particular study, so here's what they found in the study, gave people THC, had them do vision tests, their depth perception. It's because their eye is fucked.

Starting point is 00:26:56 That's right. So that's temporary. Wait, right. Oh, you thought it was over time. Oh yeah, it's that temporary. Oh, temporary. Oh yeah, of course, yeah, I'm hella high. I like how Adam looking over there talking to me.

Starting point is 00:27:09 No, my vision's fine. No, so it's temporary, but when the study, a majority of people, while under the influence, said, no, my vision's totally fine. And when they tested them, said, no, no, no, your depth perception, your ability to decipher between objects, your ability to see things clearly as something you're doing and you're not. So this is good because there's this debate as to whether or not THC should be regulated like alcohol when it comes to driving.

Starting point is 00:27:36 Because in some cases, it doesn't impair your ability to react and whatever like alcohol does. It still does, but not like alcohol. However, it does impair your vision. So that's part of the case. How do you feel about that? Do you think so? Mm.

Starting point is 00:27:50 I mean, yeah, I mean, totally. I think I definitely don't think it's like alcohol. I would much, I would feel much safer driving in a car with someone who's stone than someone who's drunk, but it definitely doesn't make you a better driver. Or it definitely has a negative effect. Yeah. So yeah, I a negative effect. Yeah. So.

Starting point is 00:28:05 Yeah, I don't know. I thought it's so quiet. What you say? I don't know. I don't know. I feel about the interest. I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:28:12 So it depends on how much you practice. Having a friend, I say that on the show. I've got to be crucified for something like that. No, I just, well, I don't know if I'm a big fan of regulation. Plus, I don't know if what, how they will regulate. That's the challenge. Well, I know what'll turn into the stage in your system. Yeah, I just didn't see the stage. It's so long. So what's going to happen now? Like if I don't know if what, well, how they will regulate. That's the challenge. And it will turn into the stage in your system. Yeah, it stays in your system so long.

Starting point is 00:28:26 So what's gonna happen now? Like if I can't drive, I smoked weed for can last night. In this levels too, right? Totally. In terms of like somebody that's like, super high, you don't want somebody to, I mean, they'll probably drive two miles an hour and it'd be obvious, but you know, at that point,

Starting point is 00:28:39 it's like, everybody reacts to it differently. So that's my, that's why I was bringing that up. My experience of someone being really high in driving. And I know you say you're not, you know, it can't be safe because you're somewhat impaired, but I mean, you typically drive over paranoid. You're yeah, you're paranoid, so you're overly cautious. They've done studies on that.

Starting point is 00:28:56 So alcohol has this effect on you, of what I think is not, I think it's obvious to everybody here. It makes you overestimate your ability. This is why you guys will drink and then go hit on the girl or whatever. She's totally unlike me. Marijuana has the opposite effect

Starting point is 00:29:11 where you underestimate your ability. So introspective. Yes. I don't know if I can drive right now or maybe I shouldn't go talk to that. So they say that that's one of the bigger differences between the two. Is that when you're drunk, you think, oh, I'm all cool.

Starting point is 00:29:24 You oftentimes, you know, a theory is if someone's really stoned, that they're going to be like, no, I probably shouldn't, you know, I'm can't you like taper the effects though with CBD in combination with the T.C.B.D. helps with the paranoia and it also reduces the memory effects. So the short-term memory gets affected with chronic, but not site. There you go. No, let's consider chronic. Yeah. Let's consider chronic. Chronic use.

Starting point is 00:29:50 Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's a good question. I think it's more than once a month. And is it, is it, oh, once, once a month? Sorry, more than once a week. I'm not mistaken. It's considered chronic use. I think so.

Starting point is 00:30:00 And is it dose dependent? Like, I mean, because there's a big deal with somebody who's taking a couple hits versus somebody who's like getting ripped. Yeah, I, because there's a big deal of street somebody who's taking a couple hits versus somebody who's like getting ripped. Yeah, I'm sure there is a difference. But yeah, the challenge is testing the levels in someone's system, because it's a fat soluble, cannabinoids are fat soluble,

Starting point is 00:30:15 they stay in your system for so long. So you can't necessarily test someone and see how impaired they are like you can with alcohol. They have yet to come up with that. But we used to, okay, before breathalyzer existed, do you know how they tested you for alcohol? They had a field sobriety test.

Starting point is 00:30:29 They still do that, no? They can't, they do still, right? They're doing combo sometimes, yeah. Yeah, so I think that's what they should do. Like, oh, I think you're too stoned. Well, let's see if you can walk in a straight line. So yeah, like that. I feel like that, I think you can refrain

Starting point is 00:30:41 from eating this cupcake. Yeah. So daring. You sit alone. You sit alone. I'm going to back in the car. Oh God. I got the visual on that. I have a few tests for you.

Starting point is 00:30:58 Here's the first one. Do you think the birds are listening to us? Or tell me a really funny joke. You can try not to laugh, like belly laugh for a minute. You'll see. There's second question. Are they spying on us? Watch SpongeBob for five minutes.

Starting point is 00:31:13 Yeah, you can come back. Yeah, yeah. You're a little spunk. You know, speaking of marijuana products and stuff like that, I was just thinking about when Doug and I went to Utah, we both were having a hard time sleeping there, couldn't get the temperature right in the house or whatever. And I go mellow direction,

Starting point is 00:31:30 and you go, are you sleep or the regular spectrum? What are you using? Sleep. So you're using bed sleep, which is strong. That makes it work so good. I mean, that will put me to sleep every single time. Mellow is like that for me. Really? Mellow is like clockwork.

Starting point is 00:31:46 It, I mean, that thing is... It shows me out. Of all of all our products, I used that, the most, most consistent. Did you do one packet every night? Mm-hmm, okay. Have you tried two? I haven't tried two.

Starting point is 00:31:56 Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I haven't tried. But because when I, when we met with Dr. Crabral, my magnesium was so low that I think he has, so I think one of my supplements I take in the middle of the day has magnesium in it and then again, so I am taking a higher dose now than what I was before, which I can't tell you if I've connected yet

Starting point is 00:32:19 a difference in my sleep, I think I was so low before that introducing mellow was such a game changer for me that like it's now become a staple if I'm gonna get a good eye on you. You know, it's estimated that a majority of people, I think upwards of 60% of people are somewhat magnesium deficient. And the symptoms of magnesium deficiency,

Starting point is 00:32:39 mild deficiency are increased anxiety, nervousness, insomnia, muscle contractions aren't so good. are increased anxiety, nervousness, insomnia, muscle contractions aren't so good, so you might feel a little shaky or like you're not as strong. So, and the beauty of something like mellow, there's no cannabinoids in it, right? So they have, Ned has a lot of hemp products, hemp oil products, legal on all 50 states, right? But mellow, no cannabinoids, if you're deficient

Starting point is 00:33:04 in magnesium, you'll notice if you take it, like you'll take it, I'd be like, oh, I can take it. Well, and I'll tell you, I didn't have any of those symptoms you just listed. So I recommend if you're, so I recommend someone, if you're listening to at least try, like that's because it was such a big deal for me. Well, yours was sleep though. I know stuff was sleep, right? Yeah, but I didn't have like, in some, you know, or I didn't think I just, and I would attribute my bads, my occasional bad sleep to just like my brain going or what I went to that. Like, so I didn't, I wasn't like a chronic bad sleeper.

Starting point is 00:33:32 Oh, sure. So I didn't have any of these like glaring symptoms that made me go, oh, I need to try, honestly, I only tried millo because we were sponsored by their product. And it's like, oh, we try almost everything that any of our partners have just to see. And it was so shocking to me how great my sleep was that I was like, no way it was from that. And then I took it again. It was like, again, it was like, and then you know me, like I'm not, you're the one who's quick to like right away.

Starting point is 00:33:55 It's like, oh my God, it's amazing. I'm more like skeptical. Like, maybe it was something else, but after consistently doing it, I mean, it is every time I take it, it just helps me sleep on a whole lot of levels. It's become one of the more popular products that they have. Yeah, and like you said, I think 60% of people are deficient in it, and that's all it is. I don't think there's anything, I mean, of course they have one of the best sources. Speaking of deficiencies, now that we've had COVID for a while and it's been around and they're studying it, I mean, they're really connecting vitamin D deficiency

Starting point is 00:34:26 and glutathione low glutathione levels. I've brought this up before, but they're now connecting those two things to severe COVID. Like, most of the time, if you have severe symptoms, you're low in one or both of those things. So just, did you hear that they're starting

Starting point is 00:34:42 to try and debunk the long COVID? Oh, yeah, article. So what did that article say? That that it doesn't exist. Yeah, just saying that the more and more that there There's something else that is correlated with the people that Claim they have long COVID symptoms that all have in common That's not related to actually COVID we are forgot the name. You know me. I'm terrible with those didn't you send it to us? I did I said you can bring up the article. Like they all had a deficiency in something or unhealthy in a different direction.

Starting point is 00:35:08 Yeah, so like, so what they, what they're, what the study was showing or what it was revealing was that. And I wish, you know, again, we'll share it in the show notes so you can actually read it. But it was showing that everyone who showed symptoms of, you know, quote unquote, long COVID also had something else that the research is showing that that is what contributed to it. Oh, here we go. Okay, so earlier studies, I'm going

Starting point is 00:35:32 to read it. I just found it. Earlier studies had already hinted at this as the majority of long COVID cases occur in those with pre-existing access to psychiatric disorders. So with the study says, the study found that there was no evidence of long-term COVID infection in patients who were six or more weeks removed from the onset of symptoms, even if those patients reported that they were experiencing long COVID. Further, the study found that individuals who reported having long COVID were disproportionately women and individuals with the history of anxiety disorders. So it could be, it could be that you have an anxiety disorder, you're in the middle of a pandemic,

Starting point is 00:36:11 you're bombarded by media, telling you, oh my God, everybody's scared, you're gonna die, whatever. Then you get it, and so then the lingering effects are psychiatric, not from the virus itself. That's kind of messed up though, if you're that person, and the doctor's like, it's in your head, Karen. You're just anxious.

Starting point is 00:36:29 Well, it doesn't matter at that point, right? If you believe it, that's true, right? That's true. I mean, if you believe it's true, then it is true, in that sense, right? Wow. That's crazy. Hey, did you guys watch, who watched Dr. Stranger here?

Starting point is 00:36:41 Yeah. Would you think of it? Which one are you guys? Take your guess. Who watched Dr. Stranger here? Yeah, I don't know what to say. Would you think of it? Which one are you guys? Take your guess. Look at how they look. What'd you think about it? You know, I thought it was entertaining,

Starting point is 00:36:54 it was good, but it was kind of weird, so the subject matter was pretty dark. Yeah, it just got into like crazy witchcraft and... Oh, really? ...sitanic shit. I thought it was good, but you know, it goes so crazy into the multiverse twisted, weird, like there's different worlds and stuff like that. That part's kind of interesting.

Starting point is 00:37:15 I heard a mixture, I heard a mixture of you. I heard people loved it, but then I also heard people say, it sucked. I like the first one a lot. That was my favorite. I agree. This one was like, yeah, and I think it's just inevitable when you have the follow-ups. They try to like add a whole lot of other layers.

Starting point is 00:37:30 And it was just like, I mean, they still kind of pulled it off. The worst case, I can remember in terms of like how it got really got away from them when they add way too many stories going on at once. Was that one Spider-Man where you had like Venom, then you had the Sand Man guy, then you had like Hobgoblin or whatever, it had like way too many like side stories going on at once and then the whole movie just sucks. You know what's interesting about the Marvel universe now

Starting point is 00:37:57 is that all of them that they're showing happened after Thanos made half the universe explode and with this fingers and they all came back. Yeah. And it kind of makes me sad. It makes it kind of less. Last, find it to me. That's a powerful.

Starting point is 00:38:11 Remember the big Avengers film where Thanos. It's very infinity war. Yeah, end game or day. He got all the stones. He snapped his fingers half the world. Half the universe disappeared. Okay. And then it was like five years later,

Starting point is 00:38:26 and they figured out a way to go back in time apparently and fix it. I don't remember exactly what happened, I can't remember, but they brought back those people, but they came back five years later. So everybody lost five years of time. Apparently we don't get Iron Man back. Yeah, in that.

Starting point is 00:38:40 So it's just like, I mean, it's just some of those things, you're just like, okay, if you bring it, so everybody's back now, but not everybody, and there's a disconnect there. Yeah, it made me a little bit sad. Yeah, it's for making reviews. I haven't watched that one.

Starting point is 00:38:52 I heard make reviews on that. What I have heard consistently right now is everyone saying that top gun is movie of the year. It's kicking ass right now. I really want to go see, I've just seen one negative comment and people are saying best movie ever I'm better than rock Stop Our generations love story is the best love story ever made

Starting point is 00:39:15 One and Oscar from music Wow Rocky got best film best director and, and something else else really. I had the tiger though, you know, fell short. Bro, what do you mean? They still play that at the gym. Okay, go to the gym. Is there a top-line music on?

Starting point is 00:39:32 No. Here's a fun fact. I know that. You know that in Cradi Kid, that song, he's, they're the best. Oh, right. Yeah. That was supposed to be Rocky.

Starting point is 00:39:42 It was? Yes. But they pulled that to put a tiger in the second. Hold on a second. Really? Yes. Was that Frank's Thalon? Bill Conti.

Starting point is 00:39:50 Oh, Bill Conti. Yeah. Did you know Frank's Thalon? So is Raaki, is Sebastian Lones brother? No way. He composed music. He composed music in, I think, Rocky IV or some of the Rockies. That's right.

Starting point is 00:40:01 Yeah. So his brother, What a nerdy red in fact you have there. That's awesome. That's something you would do. This is my cousin. He's gonna be doing the music for the movie. He's been playing on the computer for the last five years. I know a guy. You'll be cool. Hey, I want to tell you guys about a DM I got, which we get DMs all the time for people who give us feedback about the programs, or we like the show, whatever.

Starting point is 00:40:26 Anyway, this woman messages me and she says, hey, I want to say, I want to say, I'm just started following Max at a malloc. I went into a cut, so I dropped my calories from 1800 to 1500 calories. I've been doing this now for five weeks, and I'm getting stronger. And her question was, are my calories too high? So of course, my response is like, dude, that is, you are perfect. You're nailing it. Absolutely perfect. But she thought her calories were too high because her strength is just like, I was expecting my strength to go down. And what I told her was, and this was in Twitter, right? So what I told her going back and

Starting point is 00:41:02 forth, I said, if you go in a cut, and you know, it's a cut, right? Because you know what your maintenance is and forth, I said, if you go in a cut and you know it's a cut, right? Cause you know what your maintenance is, you drop your calories and you're following a program and you're still getting stronger, that means that the workout programming's absolutely perfect for you. Doesn't get, like that's the sweetest spot you can be in when you get leaner,

Starting point is 00:41:18 is if you don't lose any strength or it's rare, your strength goes up. If you do that, that's like, you are perfect. Everything's perfect, you're going great. Great place to be. You know, speaking of Twitter land, how is that going for you? Oh, it's good.

Starting point is 00:41:32 It's the most negative side of me that you'll ever see. Somebody got somebody on their message me and they're like, What can you just be more positive? I'm like, dude, 99.9% of all the content that we put out is positive. This is where I get to be. we put out is positive. Right. This is where I get to be.

Starting point is 00:41:46 Let me just do this. Yes. I need this for me. I just sort of need to vent. Let this out. I get to be angry and just, you know, talk shit about stuff. So that's that. I don't feel like you're angry.

Starting point is 00:41:55 I think you're compared to how I, you know, how I always am. It is. It's just that's that side of me, right? That comes out. Yeah, but do you think that it, it, do you, well, mate, I mean, you know yourself better than anybody else. It's because there's mobs there. Yeah, like it just seems like they can everybody can kind of collectively like gang up on people like easier than that. I mean, I like what you do. I mean, I'm paying

Starting point is 00:42:13 attention. I mean, I think you you you set a little trap for people by saying something that's a little controversial or that you know is going to rile up a percentage people. And it causes, you know, of course, it's gonna cause some discourse and people that are gonna get upset and freaking whatever. But then it also strikes up a lot of good intelligent debate and conversation. So, I mean, not everybody can handle that.

Starting point is 00:42:37 You know, we live in this weird time where everybody wants to. It's definitely not positive though. Like, I'm not on their thing. Yeah, we're not there to help people in fitness. No, I mean, I do, I'd say, I do do talk about fitness on there, but that's not, that's that's like some of it. The other, the, a lot of it is me, you know,

Starting point is 00:42:55 that's where I get to, you know, say shit that is on my mind or I'm annoyed or, and so I'm not thinking to myself, how can I help people? That's not what I think when I'm on Twitter. I think like, here's what, you like, here's what's going on. Well, short, like quick, witted one, Zeylon Musta's, I just can't help it. Like, it's so funny to me. Oh, he just nails.

Starting point is 00:43:14 You know the most shared tweets are so great. The most retweeted tweets. He has the highest. Yeah, it was after he was about to buy a side. It was the Coca-Cola one. Yeah, after he bought Twitter, he was like, next I'm gonna put the cocaine back and Coca Cola.

Starting point is 00:43:27 The most shared tweet of all time. That's actually, you know, I think that is, I'm not 100% sure, but I thought I heard him say that this is what led him down the rabbit hole of figuring out how many fake accounts there are because he just kind of did some rough math real quick and thought, okay, if I have the number one shared tweet

Starting point is 00:43:45 in the world, the record most, and it only had so many. It was like 50,000. Yeah, I don't remember what that, no, it was more, and it was millions, right? It had millions. But it was nowhere near the percentage you would expect. Yeah, from the entire base. Yeah, it was like less than 5%.

Starting point is 00:43:59 He's like, how am I the most shared tweet in Twitter land? And it hasn't even broke 5% of the entire population in there. This doesn't make sense. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. And so I think that was what actually sent him down the rabbit hole of trying to figure, where is it? Where are they with that right now?

Starting point is 00:44:17 Do you know? I think they're trying to push him to take action because he's like, first I wanna confirm how many bots and now they're like, no, you have to buy it and they're kind of doing this thing. Yeah, so you see he was coming at Bill Gates for being behind some of the campaigning against him. This was like what to short the stock of Tesla. He shorted the stock of Tesla, which he set Bill. Bill Gates. So he says, you are super Mr. Pro climate, like save the earth, save the climate. I own the number one company in the world

Starting point is 00:44:53 that is researching and developing the most power move on. And you're shorting my stock. Did you see what happened to him with the ESG? No, he got pulled. What do you mean? Tesla got pulled. Oh, I saw that.

Starting point is 00:45:04 Tesla got pulled. So you remember I brought up pulled? Oh, I saw that Tesla got pull So you remember I brought up a while back. I told you guys about what ESG Scoring is Shit, tell me that's not political. Yeah, bro BP is on that list. Yes, ex on ex on is on that list and Tesla gets removed Off that top 100 companies that meet the requirements for use least you was at Stanford environmental social and Something Doug look it up. Please. Yes. I forget every time It's and and Tesla got taken down It's a massive purchase the big oil companies are still there

Starting point is 00:45:35 Environmental social and governance. Yeah, tell me that's not political dude 100% that's so ridiculous 100% That's so stupid. I know the fact that he gets pulled off of that god damn it makes me annoyed such a joke. Talk about something you know something one other thing that's kind of weird. Sometimes I wish scientists would just stop. But they through using CRISPR technology they genetically altered hamsters and made them extremely aggressive. Who was their motivation? They made hamsters. They modified these hamsters Extremely aggressive They made hamsters they modified these hamsters through crisper technology and they were like Fucking wheels. Yeah, like mean fighting each other little gremlins want to kill each other. I'm like dude

Starting point is 00:46:22 Like they are trying to create gremlins. That's exactly what I thought I'm right away. What do you guys do? I think a I think the closest thing to a girl into me would be an angry hamster. Yeah, right. Yeah, or that movie critter. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We gotta put a picture. So yeah, what is the point? I mean, just to see.

Starting point is 00:46:32 I think they're just trying to learn aggression and genetic and, you know, how genes play a role. But they literally turn them into angry killer hamsters. How funny would it not funny? How crappy would it be if a couple of these hamsters escaped? All of a sudden, they're like, the name is B movie ever. I mean, the more the more you talk on the killer hamsters, the more you hear of this stuff, and you couple that with, you know, the metaverse and what's going on with that, tell me like player one doesn't seem so realistic to you. Like the whole concept of player one to me is just,

Starting point is 00:47:07 I mean, it was really neat when it first came out and seemed ahead of its time. Hey, Tommy, go outside, mom, there's killer hamsters. COVID-27, and whatever, I'm gonna stay in the metaverse. It's a good luck there. We're on my unicorn and I can fly. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no and I can fly. Yeah, no. I think you're right. So wild, man. Oh, one more thing. So this is actually pretty cool.

Starting point is 00:47:28 So my mother-in-law, who really, not really into exercise, she's done it on and off. She's trying to work on her diet. We're talking about supplementation. She works at Whole Foods and she was trying to implement protein powders, but we're getting her to avoid dairy right now. So I send to Organifi Protein, loves it. Absolutely loves organified protein. Aren't they? Yeah, regularly. So in gray for people who have dairy intolerance. Just digestion.

Starting point is 00:47:52 Because we're trying to increase our protein intake because we're trying to draw per carbohydrate. So we have to make up the difference in calories plus it's, you know, I think it's going to benefit her. And she's getting, she's giving me great feedback. So I'm already sent her two jugs of is Is it organized in whole foods now? I could have sworn, okay, did you guys see the, someone in our thread in our forum thread? You might be right. Someone in our forum thread last night

Starting point is 00:48:12 or the night before. Oh, that'd be cool. A new person asked about what we thought about athletic greens, and then they were asking basically the forum. Like what do you guys, have you guys heard of the athletic experience? New period, no. Well, I mean, athletic greens came after us, right?

Starting point is 00:48:25 So they came after us to advertise. Yeah, I don't know enough about it. And they're great. They're actually up there. If you were to, I would consider them up there with Organifies, as far as their quality and their taste. They're actually really good. The honest truth is,

Starting point is 00:48:38 Organifies a little bit cheaper, and then they offer way more products and we have a relationship with them. So that's why we blew them off. But a solid product, but more expensive. And I would say, you know, equally as beneficial or as good as far as with ingredients. But what I saw on the thread and why I'm bringing this up is that a bunch of people were talking about how much more they like or identify, especially the new Apple Chris. And they said like, it's

Starting point is 00:49:01 always on sale at Whole Foods. So I don't know if it, or a grocery store, I thought it was Whole Foods. I'll have to go back to the store. I have no idea. That's interesting. Well, I mean, I'm not seeing it online. Well, I mean, either way, I've never seen it at the store.

Starting point is 00:49:14 She gets it through me because it's free. And I'm not even going to go that thread. Well, I tell you what though, what impressed me is, have you ever, have you ever had a family member or a friend who's never taken protein powders, try a protein powder, very hard to please them because for some reason they equate protein powder

Starting point is 00:49:32 to like a milkshake. Yes. Oh, this is all taste. Yes, and she was like, wow, this is not bad. I got the chocolate, this is actually, you know, not bad. So I was really, really happy, because I told her I weren't, I'm like, look, it's a protein powder.

Starting point is 00:49:43 Yeah. It's not, it's serving a function here. Yeah, it's not a milkshake. So, understand that. No, she responded. She'd been using it regularly. Yeah. So it is delicious.

Starting point is 00:49:53 I'm really happy. Yeah. Hey, real quick, check this out. We put together a forum on Facebook that's managed and run by Dr. Stephen Cabral and his team. Okay, some of the best functional health practitioners you'll find anywhere. It's called MP run by Dr. Stephen Cabral and his team. Okay, some of the best functional health practitioners will find anywhere It's called MP holistic health. It's on Facebook. It's totally free. So you can go on Facebook join this group and Ask questions listen to live conversations. It's a great community that'll help you find root causes of some of your health issues

Starting point is 00:50:23 And it's incredibly valuable. And for the time being, totally free. Again, it's MP Holistic Health on Facebook. It's a group. Anybody can go in. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Dustin from Texas.

Starting point is 00:50:37 Dustin, what's up, man? How can we help you? Hey, guys. I've been listening for roughly six months. And Jeff, please just want to thank you all for Hey guys, I've been listening for roughly six months and definitely just want to thank y'all for support for all the free content y'all put out. It does stand in, it's really helped me for sure. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah, so just a little background on me is like I've been doing stream training for about two years 2018 to 2020. not really knowing like how to eat,

Starting point is 00:51:05 just kind of going to the gym and doing some like compound lifts that I knew how to do and spending 20 minutes on the elliptical. And I definitely got stronger, but there was for sure a cap because I wasn't following like the things I knew how to do now and whatnot.

Starting point is 00:51:21 So sort of fast forward to 2020 and COVID hits and I can't get back in the gym. And we had a Peloton bike in our house and so I was just kind of riding that five days a week to try to stay in somewhat some kind of shape. And it was just not really liking how my body was looking over time, getting really frustrated with that. And so that's kind of when I saw ads pop up for a tonal. So we were really interested in it. We had a lot of conversations about it because big investment, but we got one and leading up to that, I was dedicated,

Starting point is 00:51:56 I decided I was really gonna take my training seriously. I got, you know, my macros, I had my daily burn dialed up, I was ready to go. So I got that about last May. And so I've had it for about a year. And my strength gains have been awesome. Like it's done and I have been incredible for me personally and how I feel and, you know, just my overall health and how I feel and just my overall health and how I feel about my body and everything.

Starting point is 00:52:26 But you guys had a discussion recently about free weights versus machine training. And I thought it was really interesting and wanted to see sort of where I fall in this spectrum where the tech is obviously leaning towards machines. But I'm wondering if I might be benefiting from a freeway workout every once in a while if I incorporated that into my programming.

Starting point is 00:52:56 The tonal definitely offers a lot. But I'm wondering if I'm not building enough stability that I could be in the movements that I get from a dumbbell or a different kind of workout. Oh my God, nice. Yeah, short answers. The short answers, yeah. You do the occasional freeway workout,

Starting point is 00:53:14 it'll be great, just from the novelty alone. Now, Tonal, it would be comparable to just the cable, machine in the gym. And of all the machines that you can use in the gym, I find the cable machines to be the most valuable because they're more like free weights than like machines in the sense that they can move in different directions. You can adjust the angle. You're more free with the resistance. So minus the fact it sucks for lower body. Well, that was just gonna get there. Like, it's hard to get sufficient resistance for lower body as you get stronger.

Starting point is 00:53:49 You know, when you're trying to, you know, if I squat with over 300 pounds, I'm not gonna do that really well. We have a tonal. We have a tonal on the gym. We don't highlight it or show it, but we have one. And I think it's cool. We're really cool for upper body.

Starting point is 00:54:03 And a cool supplemental tool. But I think it's cool, really cool for upper body and a cool supplemental tool, but I think it sucks for lower body, like really sucks. And it's something that we intermittently would use for upper body. It still would get would rather use free weights because the benefits that you get for free weights are much greater than what you're going to get from cables. That being said, that doesn't mean that you can't build a very fit, strong physique using a machine like that. I mean, it just really depends on your goals and how far you want to take this. And you're just, you're a little limited if all we're using is like a tonal machine.

Starting point is 00:54:41 Do you have room for like a PRX? PRX rack, which they fold into the wall and a barbell. Would you have room for that? Yeah, we could put that in the garage. Oh, that's where it's. If you got yourself a PRX rack, a barbell and some, you know, you can add dumbbells, maybe you don't even need them

Starting point is 00:55:00 because you have the cables from the tonal, but I would go dumbbells, barbell and the rack from PRX, plus the tonal. You're good. You basically have the, I mean, essentially have the wellness studio that I own for almost two decades where I train clients. And that's almost all I use was cables

Starting point is 00:55:16 and barbell and dumbbells. And you can do almost everything with that. So, yeah, but I mean, like if somebody said I only use free weights, would I benefit from using cables? Sometimes the answer would be the same I'd say yes, so that that there's there's stuff you'll get from one that you won't necessarily get from the other So it's a great

Starting point is 00:55:32 Yeah, but that being said okay the person who's using the cables is missing out more on yeah If you had to pay one or the other yeah, then the person who let's say if there's there's two different people one person's limited Nothing but dumbbells barbells you have another person. Itbells, you have another person that's only limited to cables. The person that's only limited to cables is missing out on more than the person who is only using dumbbells and barbells is missing out from the cables. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:55:54 But if you added the rack, you got everything. 100%. You had that PRX right now that you can squat, deadlift, barbell overhead press, bench, barbell bench press. I mean, those are the big movements that you are missing out on with something like the tonal that in itself added with the tonal will be awesome.

Starting point is 00:56:14 I mean, because I do think it's a really cool tool. I just, you know, part of your question was too like where we think tech is going. I don't know if tonal and mirror and those things are going to make it. I think they're I think they're grossly overpriced for what they what they get. It's really expensive. It's a cool toy and if you got money and can afford it, I think it will hit a very specific demographic of people that can afford to have a toy like that. But for what you get with a PRX rack and what they cost to that.

Starting point is 00:56:45 Here's the thing about tech companies. They always love products that they can consolidate everything to one place. And then they're going to sell you really hard on that as being the answer to your problems. And that's just marketing and that's what they're trying to do in terms of efficiency. And they're going to always highlight that and hype it up as the one size fits all because

Starting point is 00:57:09 that's how you sell it. But in reality, we get a lot of benefits from this variety of different methods out there. So it's a cog in the wheel, but it's actually a smaller cog in the wheel than the free weights. Yeah, if you go to all of our houses, I mean, obviously we've been doing this for a long time, you go to our houses, what are you going to find? A rack, barbell dumbbells. That's it.

Starting point is 00:57:32 And adjustable bands. That's all that's in my garage. That's what you'll see in our houses. I don't think when it comes to strength training aside from, I don't know, pharmaceutical advancements or genetic, you know, changing, you know, people's genes or anything like that. I don't think we're going to see radical advancements in strength training from an equipment standpoint. Our bodies evolved to get stronger to lift objects in the real world and free

Starting point is 00:57:58 weights mimic that far better than machines or cables do. Now, again, I'm not saying they don't have value. I do think they have value, and I don't just use free weights, but I don't think anything will be invented that'll be better than free weights if we had to compare head to head. It just is how our bodies evolve, lifting things.

Starting point is 00:58:17 It's a cool tool though. I mean, I love that it has the variable resistance, so it can emulate like you have chains. It can follow program. It can just based off of how much effort you put into it really cool features Yeah, so it's cool knocking it at all. I actually love using it But again, it's it's just for a novel stimulus for me. Yeah, so now go ahead I'm I was just gonna say the favorite thing that I get from it is just like the raw data on myself

Starting point is 00:58:44 Well, that's what it does. You're not going to get that with free weights. My dumbbell doesn't tell me a damn thing. It's definitely dumb. So, no, that's what you value. You're going to get that really well with a tonal. You're not going to get that at all. And I really think that's who, I think that's who, I mean, obviously, tonal as a company

Starting point is 00:59:01 wants to target everybody. The reality is it's not going to appeal to most people. It's going to appeal to the number junkie who loves all the data and the feedback and the person that can afford something like that. And I think for those people, it's pretty freaking cool. So I think it is a neat thing like that. But for what you can get with the PRX rack in Barbell, and so at that the price, I mean, you would have spent half the money and you don't have to pay a monthly subscription and the different,

Starting point is 00:59:30 the amount of a variety that you have in just those few pieces of equipment is greater in what you'll get bank. Yeah, if you add it to what you have, Dustin, literally you'll have like a gym setup. Yeah. And we have, we have a link. Uh, I think it's PRX performance.com forward slash mind pump. And then that'll give you a discount. So that's for people listening right now. If they want to take a look. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Appreciate all the help guys. Thank you,

Starting point is 00:59:54 man. Thanks for following him. Hi. Yeah. The, you know, it's funny. I did a post today on Twitter. And I said, it's good to question old wisdom. Is that a post or is it a tweet? Tweet. You're right, it's a tweet. So I know, I'm old. Come on, go and check. Come on, Twitter guy. I did a twat and it says,

Starting point is 01:00:14 what do you say? Tweet my bad. And it says, sorry Doug, shaking his head over there. It's, and it said, like, it's good to question old wisdom, but don't do it blindly because it's like what's that saying? Like, don't take offense down unless you know why it's up in the first place. Old strength training wisdom is that free weights tend to be superior. People love to question free weights and love to say this machine is better than that

Starting point is 01:00:38 machine is better. Generally speaking, it's just not true. You're just going to get overall better effects for the most part. Of course, I think there's some machines that are better than some. Well, training and exercise a bit of it anomaly when you think about it like that, right? Because almost everything else,

Starting point is 01:00:53 everything from nutritional science to cars, to computers and tech, like everything continues to evolve and improve and get better. And what we have today is better than what we had 20 years ago. But to your point, here's an area where it really hasn't. I mean, barbells and dumbbells have been around for a long time.

Starting point is 01:01:13 And all these cool machines that have came out that are really neat to look cool and hit different angles and give you different variable resistance. None of it is better. I mean, think about that. What else is like that? What else? What else? What it adds better. I mean, think about that. What else is like that? What else?

Starting point is 01:01:27 What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else?

Starting point is 01:01:35 What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else?

Starting point is 01:01:43 What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? What else? same about resistance training. Yeah, I think, again, like to, you know, going back to the tonal, I think it was a, it's a good bridge in terms of like taking your average person that would never work out, like instead of them just jumping on a treadmill, you know, like having that simplified sort of experience to get them introduced to resistance training, I think that's super valuable, but it's really expensive. So if they can figure that

Starting point is 01:02:04 out, that's crazy expensive. It's really expensive for your average person. So it's like a big commitment at that point, right? So yeah, but I think at some point, just more of these sort of chum in the water and getting people to feel like they can now kind of at least take those first baby steps with something like this as value. I'm so curious about, in fact,

Starting point is 01:02:25 it's funny that we got a question around tonal because they have been on my mind with what's, I mean, now the pandemic's over. Right, when they're still seeing that growth. Yeah, I mean, the subscription on top of that. Well, I like the Peloton. Peloton's stock exploded during the pandemic and just tanked afterwards

Starting point is 01:02:40 because the demand dropped considerably. But I wonder if that's the same thing with it. It's gotta to be. I mean, now I know that it was propped up. Here we are in the middle of NBA finals and the NBA seasons coming to an end. And they also partnered with the Braun James. And he's been promoting it and so like that. So it may be propped up by some great partnerships that they've made.

Starting point is 01:02:59 But I remember when I talked to Brendan about the stick rate and what they claimed with people that were consistently using that thing. I don't see that sticking around for that law. I don't see people paying that much money for something like that. That is also inferior. Maybe you could convince people to do that if it was technically a superior product to a barbell and dumbbell, but because it's not, and it's more expensive, eventually, and to your point Justin, sure, it's a great, someone who doesn't know any better, and is a tech geek, and he goes,

Starting point is 01:03:32 oh, this is really cool when they start using it, but if they really get into it, and they do stick around long enough, they're gonna find out that it's not, they'll move to freeway. Yeah, they'll move to a sort of a next step. That's right, they'll go to the next step, and they'll progress their training

Starting point is 01:03:44 if they want to continue to progress like their physique, and they'll move to a some of the next step. That's right. They'll go to the next step and they'll progress their training if they want to continue to progress like their physique and they'll move away from it. And then they will, if they have it, they already pay for it, intermittently use it because it's just not the end-all be all. Our next caller is Ben from North Carolina. Ben, how's it going, man? How can we help you? Hey, how you guys doing today?

Starting point is 01:04:00 Good. Great. Awesome. Well, you guys, I'm gonna start by saying kind of what everyone says, which is just thank you for doing what you do. Great. Awesome. Well, you guys are gonna start by saying kind of what everyone says, which is just thank you for doing what you do. I really, really, it's awesome to have a podcast like this that's not only so consistent is the way you guys really sit,

Starting point is 01:04:14 but also just how helpful you guys are with taking people like me on to answer our questions. And it's been really nice to have something I can just like play on the background that's like really relaxing and pleasant like that will also be able to learn something I can just play on the background that's really relaxing and pleasant like that will also be able to learn something that I love. It doesn't like winding up and stress me out like a lot of other things you could listen to. So I really appreciate that.

Starting point is 01:04:34 Thank you, Ben. Nice. Yeah, totally. So I'm just going to read my question as I wrote it to avoid rambling forever. And it's regarding the, I just bought match performance and it's regarding the weight and tempos, specifically in phase one. So I'm having a hard time finding a weight that's adequately challenging within that low rep scheme while also being able to maintain that fast explosive tempo that you'll prescribe.

Starting point is 01:04:56 So like for example, with the barbell back squats, it says five sets of three reps, but in order for me to be properly fatigued and just three reps, the way I've been shoes is too heavy to do those explosive concentrics. So it's like I have to go either super light from the appropriate tempo, which leaves a lot of reps in the tank. And I feel like I didn't do enough or go heavier, but with a really slow reps speed. So I'm wondering, am I missing something or am I just over thinking about the question? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:22 Yeah, no, it's okay. So there's explosive, plyometric type exercises, and then there's explosive, heavy type exercises. Phase one is heavy. Heavy, yeah. So the intent is to be explosive, not to move quickly. Does that make sense, Ben? So like there's one of the phases is explosive, in which case you want to move quickly, but

Starting point is 01:05:43 phase one is heavy. The goal is to lift explosively, but you're not going to move quickly. But phase one is heavy. The goal is to lift explosively, but you're not going to move fast because you're using a high load. Yeah. This is where a lot of the yelling comes out, right? You're trying as hard as you can to move the weight fast, but it's not moving. And that's the whole point is the grind in that concentric part of the lift for you to basically generate as much force as possible as you would like you're trying to jump and accelerate out of the hole. This is a really good question too because based off the intent, you're not wrong either way, right?

Starting point is 01:06:17 So in other words, in this case, because it's in phase one and we want you loading the bar heavy and you're not going to be able to move it very explosively. We want you to choose a way that is challenging and you're not probably going to be able to move it the way we want. You're going to try to. Yeah, you're going to try to. But it's not going to move fast. But then if it was our intent to move explosively and this isn't a heavy phase, there's actually nothing wrong with you not feeling fatigued afterwards.

Starting point is 01:06:40 This is a mistake that people make with explosive training sometimes as they think that,, oh man, I'm moving such a lightweight. I need to go heavier because I don't feel sore. I don't feel fatigued or like you said, you have more rest in thing. That's okay. We're training speed and explosiveness in that case, right? So if it was a lighter phase, that would be the intent. And so it's not like one or the other is necessarily wrong. It's that the way we program it in that phase for that program is we do want you loading it and we do want you to attempt to move it explosively knowing that you won't be able to. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't also train you in a fashion where I go, okay, now we're going to move a really lightweight and I do want the bar to move really fast. And I do expect you to not

Starting point is 01:07:22 feel sore or fatigue afterwards because I don't want you to be Fatigue because the goals to move it fast. Yeah, no very well stated at them I mean if if if you were in a I think what phase is it in performance where we do incorporate plios is it for three three? Okay, so when you're in phase three and you are doing explosive pliotip movements The goal is to move faster and faster not to move more weight. So if you do, let's say, a weight, and you're like, oh, that's light. Next set, I'm going to add weight. Don't. Just try to move it faster. In phase one, if you're using a weight and it feels too light, you go heavier. Now, the intent is to move explosively, but you're not going

Starting point is 01:08:00 to move fast. It's a heavy strength phase. It's not an a pli-o type phase. I hope that makes sense to you. Does that make sense to you, but? Where do we make it worse? Yeah, yeah. So I guess, so how does that differ from like what would be in like anabolic, for example, where it's like, you know, that's still like three reps is like the general range,

Starting point is 01:08:18 like some of the squats or bench presses, but like you're not, you're still trying to push the weight off of you. So is it more of just like you're pretending like you're trying to move it really fast? Yeah, I mean, yeah, but it's not really different. It's not that much different But now and this is and think of it this way like is as us like educating you while also training you through this right and a Bolog we're not really communicating things like that We just want you to think about form slow control performance. Yeah now now we're shifting you into a performance mindset

Starting point is 01:08:44 And so we're trying to teach intent here. Although it's gonna look almost identical to anabolic as far as how the barbell moves, but now we're trying to shift your way of thinking of, but now you wanna try and do it explosive, right? So, where we're not really communicating that in an anabolic, although for a consumer, this is a really good question.

Starting point is 01:09:02 This is a really good, yeah, we haven't gotten to the... Yeah, we haven't had a knee-experty test. It'll look like a squat and anabolic and a squat and performance phase one, both of them, they'll look the same. Performance, we're just communicating just new things and differently. But psychologically it's different, right?

Starting point is 01:09:17 It is, because yeah, you are focusing on what kind of force production you're actually promoting with us, because that's gonna then translate into like your phase three, where you actually do triple extension, you do these plyometric explosive jumps. What you're doing is now it's free, it's like that weights off your back,

Starting point is 01:09:35 you're using the same amount of force you're gonna do when the demand is crazy on your back, but now you don't have that, and we're trying to prep you to be able to really maximize that output. Yeah, to the outside looking in, somebody who's watching me move the way in anabolic performance is not gonna be able

Starting point is 01:09:50 to tell the difference, but I am thinking differently. When I'm moving the way to anabolic and I'm thinking more of the eccentric part of the exercise, I'm resisting the way down, I'm really working a little bit on range of motion, more control, more control. When I'm moving in performance, I'm really, I'm thinking about pracing my core and when I'm at working a little bit on range of motion, more control, more control. When I'm moving in performance, I'm really, I'm thinking about bracing my core,

Starting point is 01:10:08 and when I'm at the bottom of that squat, I'm really trying to push off my heels and drive out of the hole. But because it's heavy and the other people outside don't know what's going on in my head, they're gonna look at it and go, oh, it's exact same thing. But I'm already starting to shift the way I think

Starting point is 01:10:24 about movement and performance. And so it's exact same thing. But I'm already starting to shift the way I think about movement and performance. And so it is different. It is different. And so this is such a good question because I don't think we've had an opportunity to really communicate the thought process behind that. And I don't think any of you has asked us this question like this.

Starting point is 01:10:38 So a really good question. And yes, they will look the same, but you are starting to shift your mind more into a performance based. And that's what we're starting to do with you in phase one. Got it. Yeah, that totally makes sense, especially what Justin said about contextualizing it, how once you take that weight off and you go lighter, now you have that like explosive mentality. So to speak, so you're able to go for that's right. That's right. But it's okay that the tempo of the axle lifting is not because I can remember when y'all like three or four years ago, and y'all I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say you would have so many leftover, but that's what you did make sense. Perfect. Yeah, good question, Ben. Thanks for calling in.

Starting point is 01:11:27 Yeah, thanks guys. Appreciate it. Awesome. That was good. I don't think we've had, we haven't had so many questions. Yeah, the intention is an important aspect of how you left it really is, but it's good, I mean, it's true from the outside. It's not going to look very different. But that's the kind of, you know, those details of like what we discuss when we look at trying to acquire certain type of attributes and skills and this is a totally different

Starting point is 01:11:53 focus than say, anabolic. And the reason they're obviously that performance mindset, like we're starting to prep you to get into that and how do we develop that? Our next caller is Jessica from Toronto. Hey Jessica, how can I help you? Hey guys, one time listener, really love the content you put out. So thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I'm gonna try to keep this concise,

Starting point is 01:12:15 but I also want you to have enough context. So for a little bit of background, clearly, email, 29 years old, 140-ish counts, about 5.3. I have been working out for quite a few years now. I'd say at least 5 fairly seriously. Never really on a consistent program. I'm fairly certain I have been overexercising and under-eating. So for a little bit of context on the nutrition side, I do track on and off as long as students work track for months and months, times when I haven't. When I do track, I'm around the 1200 to 1400 calorie range. And then in terms of exercise, I'm usually doing about anywhere from 12,000 to 16,000 plus steps a day. Any mix of cycling, headaches, training, all running,

Starting point is 01:13:07 a whole bunch of things you name that usually working out multiple times a day. So where I'm at now is that doing all of this stuff, I feel like I'm putting on tons of effort and just not seeing any changes in my body composition, in weight, anything like that. So my question really comes down to, is there a way for me to start fresh? Because I'm doing a lot of listening to your content and research.

Starting point is 01:13:34 I understand a lot more now, but I feel like I have just probably crushed. My metabolism is not crushed, but it's definitely done, regulated. And so my question really is, is there a way to start over in a sense? Because I know I'm not wearing a gory, I'm not because of the lack of consistency. And so especially on the nutrition side, I'm not really sure where to go from here. Like, is it possible for me to even be in a deficit? Do I jump right to maintenance? I don't even know what my maintenance would be right now. And then on the training side, I actually just purchased and just started on Maths Estetics.

Starting point is 01:14:10 So I'm curious if you think that's a good program to start with. Yeah. Your assumption is right. Yes is the answer. And we probably would start you on anabolic instead of aesthetic. Of course you got aesthetic. Yeah. That's the high volume version of Maths.

Starting point is 01:14:24 You can get your way there, but where you're currently at, we would want to put, and by the way, Doug, when's the episode go live that we just did about the starting the macros and everything like that? When does that go live? Oh, yeah, I think on Sunday. So, the day before, or a couple days before this one does. Oh, so it'll air before this. Okay, so you're going to get an app before this one actually goes live.

Starting point is 01:14:44 They're going to get an episode that actually talks, we take you step by step through like, what this would look like, finding out what your maintenance calorie is, how to start to add calories and build your metabolism up. So I think that's perfect for you to listen to. So we can go into like really good detail and then Anna Bulk is where I would actually have your turn.

Starting point is 01:15:02 You're in a position now where your body is, it's become very efficient and it's probably concerned mainly with just treading water and healing from all of the workouts that you're doing. And so this is why your body's not progressing, it's why it seems to be frozen in place. And maybe even going backwards a little bit at some point you'll start to get some negative hormonal effects as the stress begins to overcome your body's ability to deal with it. How long have you been listening to the show, Jessica?

Starting point is 01:15:29 Um, lately, I've been doing a, like, a lot of it, like, a deep dive around. I've been on an offer probably the last two, three years. Do you trust us? Yes. Okay, ready for this? I want you to go on a bulk and I want you to do maps and a ball look.

Starting point is 01:15:44 Okay. Now, the reason why I'm asking to trust this, because I know that just based off what you're telling me, going on a bulk and be really hard for you, because you're going to be afraid of gaining weight. Oh my God, I'm going to cut my volume way down. Ah, what's going to happen to me? But I would follow maps and a ball. Like you could do the three days of foundational workouts. So you don't have to do the two.

Starting point is 01:16:02 You could do the three. And I would take your, if you're eating 12 to 15 herd calories now, 16 18, I would go 16 to 1800 calories. And stick with that for a few weeks, once everything settles, you feel good, then bump it up another 100 to 200 calories and then repeat the cycle. And what should happen is you should start to see yourself build some muscle. And then with that additional muscle, you'll see a speed up in your metabolism. Once you get your calories up to 23, 2400 calories and you're feeling good and you're eating a lot and everything's going great and your strength is good, then you can reverse out and start to cut and then your fat, the body fat will come off your body.

Starting point is 01:16:39 It'll just come off because you're going to be working with your body and not against it. But you need to go into maintenance. You need to go into maintenance. I would add a maintenance into a bulk. I would have banned in the scale in the mirror for a little while too. I mean, that'll mess with your head. It really just focused on getting stronger. If you are increasing the calories as low, I mean, we're only bumping a couple hundred calories.

Starting point is 01:16:57 So you're going to be fine. You're not going to put on a ton of weight from that for sure. But I would have banned in the scale. I wouldn't be focused on how I look. I would be completely focused on your strength in the gym. For tournaments. Yep. How much, how much you, follow Antiballic to a tee,

Starting point is 01:17:13 just the way it's laid out. Any activity outside of that? Walking. Okay, so no treadmill, no hit, no sprants, no doing anything crazy like that right now. If you need to move, just get strong. Go for a walk. Go for a walk. I need to build itself.

Starting point is 01:17:30 Yeah. That's it, totally. But that's it. Start with that. And aesthetic is too much volume. Okay, got it. Yeah, so we're sending you anabolic. And then Doug, can you also throw her in the, you have Facebook, Jessica, do you are you

Starting point is 01:17:42 on Facebook? I do. Okay, so we're going to throw you in the form too, so we can keep an eye on you. Awesome. I'm thinking I really appreciate it. Yeah, it's just a great time of year to think about both games, right? So that's the line. Okay, Jessica, you know what might end up happening?

Starting point is 01:17:56 You might actually get leaner. You might get, you might get, you might actually might start to look like you have more definition. Don't look at the scale though, because if you gain a few pounds of muscle and lose one pound of fat You'll be positive two pounds on the scale, but you'll look leaner. So forget the scale But I bet if you do what we say and you trust it within three four five weeks You'll get comments like oh you look like you're getting leaner like what's going on? So you know, we got to work with your body right now. You're working against it

Starting point is 01:18:22 You're like fighting your body. And if you keep going in that way, and you'll lose, you'll lose that. If you do a good job of targeting your protein intake, so focus on that with your nutrition and eating whole foods and slightly increasing the calories, just a few hundred like we're saying and falling on a ball. Like, I actually suspect you will see your physique actually improving the direction that you want it to improve right out the gates. Even with us telling you to go on a bulk. So if you do it that way, now if you are inconsistent with the diet and you like throwing

Starting point is 01:18:53 and drinking days and eating out a lot and stuff like that, intermittently throughout us trying to do this, well, the process might be a little bit slower on rebuilding that metabolism and getting you where we need to be. But if you actually stick to whole foods, increase those calories, make good choices as far as protein and take and then follow the program, I suspect you'll actually start to even like the way you're shaping up as we're on a bulk. All right. Sounds good.

Starting point is 01:19:18 I appreciate it guys. Oh, yeah. Thanks. Keep us posted. Well, do I think it's a match. You know what? Like about these questions, is that they know the answer.

Starting point is 01:19:26 They just want some information, you know, because she's like, I feel like I'm overeating and over training. It's like where you are. You're getting. What do you think the percentages of people that hear that advice actually take it? I think if they talk to us personally, it's a higher.

Starting point is 01:19:41 It's probably a majority, not 100% of it. I think a lot of people do exactly what I probably do, because you and I are on the other opposite of the intespectrum, right? And I remember this, and I remember hearing it, and I remember thinking it, and what ends up happening in the hardest part is sticking to it.

Starting point is 01:19:59 Because what will happen a lot of times is someone will hear that, they trust us, they're like, okay, these guys know what they're talking about. Exactly, they'll do a couple of weeks, someone will hear that, they trust us, they're like, okay, these guys know what they're talking about. Exactly. They'll do a couple weeks and they'll see something. They're gonna spooked. That will, that will fuck with them psychologically and then they'll revert back. That's what would happen to me all the time.

Starting point is 01:20:13 When I would, when I would start to reduce calories to potentially lean out so I would to potentially look better, it would also pull all the carbohydrates out of my muscles. So I would have this kind of flat kind of look, which you all know of experienced if you've been in a cut before. And it would look to me like, oh my God, I lost like five or 10 pounds of muscle. And I'm like, I fucked this and I would abandon it. And then I'd go back.

Starting point is 01:20:37 And so the opposite is normally true when you're telling someone to bulk, she of course is going to increase calories, which means she's probably going to increase carbohydrates, which we still gain a little bit of water. She's going to hold on to a little bit more water. And so maybe she goes to button a pair of pants up or put a t-shirt on and it's fitted a little different. And it's only been a couple of weeks that she's been listening to us. And then they go, fuck that.

Starting point is 01:20:57 I'm already feeling like this is I'm getting too big. And then they go back. So I bet you that happens most of the time. If you've been listening to this long and heard us preach this. So I bet you that happens most of the time. If you've been listening to this long and heard this preach this message, I think you believe us, but then there's, then you, for some reason, you always think you're the anomaly.

Starting point is 01:21:12 It's like a tipping point. You're the anomaly. Oh, I'm the one though that actually still gets fat when that happens. It's like, no, it's not the case. Our next caller's Matt from Australia. What's up, Matt? How can we help you?

Starting point is 01:21:23 Hey, thanks for having me on the show. Hope it's cool for you guys to have an Aussie on the show. For once. Yeah, we love Aussies. Welcome. Yeah, basically I've seen these videos online back on Instagram. First was for a seated row.

Starting point is 01:21:43 This is the information seemed to think that the best way to do a seated row was to kind of lean everything forward. So your back's all rounded out as you reach forward and you're stretching out all of your lap muscles and then rolling back. And then kind of similar, but I guess different is with audio as well, I was always taught. The safest way to do an audioL is attractorscapicular, have that flat back and have that safe spine position, but I've seen some people claiming that

Starting point is 01:22:13 it can be better to do it with rounded shoulders and your arms tucked in by your side. So yeah, I guess it just kind of goes against everything that I've worked as a young personal trainer about like safe spine decision So I was just wondering To know if like curious to know what you guys think because there any value to doing the exercises like this And like is it dangerous? Yeah, so no question. It's so so here's a thing So the dress each one individually because yeah, because okay, so you're gonna get a lot of

Starting point is 01:22:41 the dress each one individually, because they're... Yeah, because, okay, so you're gonna get a lot of variations on different exercises communicated by people who have lots of experience who can say, target this part of the muscle more if you change your elbow position, or if you do, like in your case, this row, I know what you're talking about, where they roll the shoulders forward,

Starting point is 01:23:00 this gets the scapular to pro-track, then you retract it, but you lean forward a little bit. When you do the row, now it's gonna to hit the last more than the upper back. What they're talking about are variations on exercises that may have some value. So it depends on what kind of variation is being promoted. Well, let's talk about that one right there by itself. That exercise, the CD row, quick example, I train it with a rounded forward scapula where I've let it stretch and retract. I teach it straight back. Yeah. Well, I was just going to, because you got

Starting point is 01:23:31 to start there. Yeah, good point. To stabilize properly first and be able to, you know, really get the benefit of that before you move into it. It's a little more advanced once you get into the very much so advanced that you have to be you have to have really good control. You have to very have very good control of your schedule. Most people don't even, I mean, if you've been a trainer, you've probably experienced this. Have you ever taught someone to see it row and you actually have to fucking put your knee

Starting point is 01:23:52 in their back and move their shoulders back for them? Have you had to do that? All right, and an experienced trainer knows this. So if I can't even queue a client to retract their shoulders and I actually need to manually pull it back so they can feel it, I'm certainly not going to teach them in advance, seated row, where I'm asking them to protract their shoulder girdle and then retract their shoulder girdle in the same fluid movement. The ability to do that is very advanced. but awesome for the points that these guys are telling you. And that's why I love to do it,

Starting point is 01:24:28 because I have that kind of control of my scapula. So that's why one I do, but another one I teach. So that addresses that exercise. The rounded back on the... With the bar close to, or the arms close to your sides, I think that just changes the leverage a little bit, probably allowing more of a stretch. I'd have to try it out.

Starting point is 01:24:48 I'm trying to envision it. You know, here's a good rule of thumb, Matt. All exercises, if there are any variation of an exercise, any variation, however crazy it looks, if it's performed with good stability, good control, good mobility, if it's being supported by the muscles and not the joints, then it's a safe exercise, okay? That doesn't mean it's necessarily valuable, because I can do just a million, one different

Starting point is 01:25:15 variations and a lot of them may not be valuable for the person that I'm training, but they're safe so long as they're done the way that I just said. Now some exercises require far more skill in control and stability and mobility and require more strength than other versions of those exercises or other varieties. So this is where I can get a little bit dicey. And there's easier versions to train and teach than there are versus other ones like Adams. That's why you see them in certifications, all that neutral spine and supine type of lifting, because that's how you want to build your foundational base

Starting point is 01:25:51 with clients, and then you can move into rounded back type lifting, which is very much more advanced and has to have a very good understanding of their body and mechanics to be able to pull that off properly, because you do face those types of lifts in the real world. Okay, you're not always going to be in this perfect neutral spine and this is something that other camps will argue and say like, well, versus barbell lifts or things of maintaining a neutral spine.

Starting point is 01:26:19 But there's a way to do that in their steps to get there. There's prerequisites to be able to pull that off properly and have that kind of body awareness and understanding where you can control it and provide support. You know what coaches that do this online are your virtual coaches. Your coaches that have minimal experience training people in real life,

Starting point is 01:26:39 but have trained themselves for 10, 15, 20 years, they're in great shape, maybe they even competed, they have a great physique. They've trained thousands of people online, but never really in person. They give tips like this all the time. It's actually one of the things I love to address when I see it online.

Starting point is 01:26:54 When we have some friends of ours that I have a lot of respect, the really smart that are in the space, that I catch giving tips like this related to exercises that, you know, sometimes they can't get out of their own way because they're thinking about themselves and what they've learned and it's like,

Starting point is 01:27:08 oh, when you protract the shoulders like this, you get a better stretch on the lads and you take it through a full range of motion, that makes this big case of why it's better. But it's like, okay, so you've got to... You just excluded 85% of the water. That's right, that's right. You just literally took out 90% of my clients

Starting point is 01:27:23 because 90% of my clients that I trained in real life are people that don't really care about lifting that much, but know they need to be in there, that have no clue how to retract their shoulder girl. And they need help laying down a solid foundation. And the nuances that you are teaching right now are so beyond the majority. It's like, I don't even want to waste my time

Starting point is 01:27:43 getting in a battle with you on why I don't teach it that way. That's what I see. I see this on Instagram all the fucking time to get clicks and to get traffic, to use things like this to make a case because of what they want to do is, we've been teaching people what you said for a long time, this neutral spine and control,

Starting point is 01:28:01 and then, oh, this is a great way I can. And it's counter. It's counter. Oh my God, I got a click on this. So it's click. Yeah, and then, oh, this is a great way I can. And it's counter. Yes, counter. Oh my God, I gotta click on this. So it's the opposite. Yeah, and then they support it with science. In fact, it's right, it is true. Get a full range of motion, better connection. Oh, you're gonna get build potentially more muscle.

Starting point is 01:28:17 All that is potentially true. But when you're a real personal trainer who trains real people most of the time and average normal people, here's where you have to be able to kind of shift through a lot of the noise online and go like, okay, yeah, sure, that may have some value, but when I think about my clients that I train,

Starting point is 01:28:36 how many of them even have the ability to articulate their spine like that? I know I could tell Sal, who's been deadlifting like crazy his whole life, I could tell Sal to do some weird posture with his deadlift and he can do it controlled and safe and with good weight because he has that much control of the deadlift. I couldn't do that with any of my clients though. So as a trainer, you have to keep that in mind when you come across content like this

Starting point is 01:28:59 that you see online. Is that where you saw this by the way? I'm just assuming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Instagram. And then of course, like my girlfriend comes back and she's like, no, you told me I should do like this. It's like this person saying it. We're like this.

Starting point is 01:29:10 Yeah. Yeah. Well, have a listen to this. So then you can say I told you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're on the right track, Matt.

Starting point is 01:29:20 You're on the right track, Matt. Yeah, I appreciate you calling in. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. No problem. You know on the right track, Matt. Yeah, appreciate you calling in. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. No problem. You know what's this reminds me of. I love using this exercise as an example because it looks so wrong.

Starting point is 01:29:34 The Jefferson curl. Yeah. If you, if anybody that isn't an experienced coach or trainer, really experienced, saw anybody doing a Jefferson curl, even if they did it right and controlled them, they would run over them and be be like no, don't do that But I mean it's and why because the high skill you need to have a lot of control You need to understand and ranges of motion with your spine and how to stop just short of that

Starting point is 01:29:55 So you're just supporting it with muscle and most people just don't have that stuff Olympic lifts phenomenally valuable Such a high skill though that I never did them with any clients, because the amount of time it would take to teach a client. Well, you said it perfect already. Yeah. Any movement, any movement done controlled and safely could be a good exercise. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:17 As ridiculous and as weird as it may look, if it has a purpose for that purpose, and that's why I, too, I'm always, I caution trainers who are new and they're learning and they just figure things out and then they love to criticize people that they see you doing weird, funny shit in the gym. It's like, hey, you don't know what the fuck they do. For all, you know, they can work for the circus. And it makes sense whether balancing on one leg doing some weird shit like that.

Starting point is 01:30:36 You don't know what they do for a living. And like, and if they can do it controlled and safely, it has potential application. So, yeah, but I mean, as a coach and a trainer, when you know how many people that you train and the type of person that you train, this is a type of stuff. I mean, this kind of reminds me of some of the,

Starting point is 01:30:53 like our good friend Eugene who we get into, which I wonder if that's who he got this from because I have a feeling he did. You know, he gives really cool tips that I like. You know, as an experienced coach and trainer who can do all this stuff. But when I think about my clients, it's like a lot of this stuff is not.

Starting point is 01:31:10 The moonies the most coaching. Yeah. Yeah, people that already have a pretty good understanding. Yeah, totally. Look, if you like our show, and I know you do, because you're watching, go to myimpumpfree.com and check out our guides. Tons of free guides that can help you

Starting point is 01:31:23 with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Cell. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy

Starting point is 01:31:40 and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic, nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having sound, and an adjustment as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1831: What to Do When Fat Loss Stalls, Machines Vs. Free Weights, the Pros & Cons of Explosive Vs. Controlled Movements & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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