Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1889: What to Do About Loose Belly Skin, the Benefits of Moving From a Split to a Full Body Workout, How to Choose the Correct Weight When Switching Rep Ranges & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live, callers, questions. But this was after a 55 minute introductory conversation where we talked about current events, fitness, scientific studies, our lives, and much more.

Starting point is 00:00:31 By the way, you can check the show notes for timestamps if you want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, you can email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com with a question, and we may pick it. Have you called in live on an episode like this one? Now, this particular episode is brought to episode like this one. Now this particular episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Felix Gray. They make really good looking blue light blocking glasses that are special because they don't change the color of everything. So if you don't want to wear orange or red glasses, but you want to reap the benefits of

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Starting point is 00:02:06 that's gonna be ending soon is as follows, Maps starter the beginner strength training program is 50% off, and the prime bundle, which includes two programs designed for correctional exercise, pain management, improved mobility, and athletic performance. Both of them can be added to any workout program. So it doesn't replace your workout program.

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Starting point is 00:02:45 about the way you're working out. Cardio, before string training, does not build more muscle. Wrong. Oh, wow. All right. I saw that. I got tagged on the multiple times I saw we got tagged on that post because of what we talk about.

Starting point is 00:03:01 And what I found interesting about that was, I believe that she is referencing the same study that Eugene talked about when we all agreed, the benefits of doing cardio for those reasons. So, and I watched the clip, and this is one of the problems I have again with our spaces that we take really good information in some science, and then they're also an elite

Starting point is 00:03:24 from there, like, therefore, this is what I'm doing. And then everybody assumes, because that person is really intelligent, knows how to read a study much better than they do, and respects them as an authority. And then they go, so therefore, this is what I do. And it's like, whoa, stop right there. This is a classic example.

Starting point is 00:03:40 And again, I've all the respect in the world for Dr. Ronda Patrick. I think she's one of the best people in the space of health and wellness. She communicates usually very well. Yes, she's very well. In this case, she communicated something completely wrong. A lot of people are misled.

Starting point is 00:03:55 And this is part of the reason why I have an issue with academia in the fitness and health space. So let me explain. There was a study that took 14 healthy young men average age about 22. So first off, small sample size, but nonetheless, I don't disagree with the study because I believe it to be true. Yeah, but let me stop you right there already. People always have to understand when we communicate health and fitness, the thing that we are always talking about is what we're keeping in mind is the the person that we trained, which was the average person,

Starting point is 00:04:26 which was the majority of people. And it was, by the way, is not 14-year-old men. You mean 22-year-old men? Or just 14 people. Yeah. I mean, we worked with general population, lots of people. So already small sample size, already young men. But nonetheless, I don't disagree with the study just based off my experience. I think you guys will agree. So the study goes, I don't disagree with the study just based off my experience. I think you guys will agree. So the study goes They took these 14 young men. They had them do I believe 10 weeks of cardiovascular conditioning Then after the 10 weeks of cardiovascular conditioning then they had them do strength training and what they found were increased or improved capillary

Starting point is 00:05:02 density and markers of improved muscle hypertrophy with the strength training. Okay, so in other words, they got some cardio fitness first, then they did the strength training 10 weeks later, and the signs and signals that they could pick up through sophisticated testing showed that, oh, it looks like there's gonna be better muscle growth

Starting point is 00:05:21 as a result. Now here's where Dr. Rhonda Patrick messed up. She talked about the study and then she goes on to say, this is why the way I work out is I do cardio first, then I do strength training, then I do sauna, all in the same workout. Not the same. It's not the same. So having better cardiovascular fitness overall can definitely help with muscle building. We've talked about this before. First off, you got better stamina, better strength endurance, better blood flow, which is what the study talks about. Now, doing cardio before strain training in the same workout, very different. Because now what happens in studies have shown this as well, and we've also seen this in our own

Starting point is 00:05:57 experience. Now you're sending different adaptation signals within the same workout, competing signals. Competing signals somewhat, right? And the first thing you do in the workout is where you get the most adaptation. So if your goal is to build muscle and strength, you want to do the strength training first, then do the cardio after. Or ideally, you want to do cardio on a separate day from strength training if it fits within your schedule. So the study is true.

Starting point is 00:06:22 If you have better cardio fitness, you're going to be able to do strength training better, and that'll probably help with muscle building, okay, to an extent. Yeah, I'm going to say, well, you need to even break that down. It's like the reason why that works is because they just have a greater capacity, a greater gas tank to go after a better work. It's not like there's a mechanism within there, and that's like, oh, because you did cardio, therefore your body responds and builds muscle more. It's no, you have a better gas tank.

Starting point is 00:06:48 You can put more energy towards your workout, which means you could probably lift a little bit more weight or more repetitions. That, the greater increase of volume, then end in turn helps with hypertrophy. Now, that's overall, right? But the studies show that there were other markers, right? Satellite cell proliferation, capillary density.

Starting point is 00:07:09 So to an extent, having some cardio fitness is going to make strength training more effective. And I say that to an extent because, as anybody who's ever worked out for a long time, I'll tell you, if you push the cardio too hard, the strength training starts to suffer. So there's definitely a curve here of, you know, good cardiophitness, now endurance is my ultimate goal. So the strength gains and the muscle gains start to fall off. But again, the big mistake she made was she took that study. And then she says, here's how I like to work out.

Starting point is 00:07:37 It's not the same thing. That's not the same at all. In this study, they didn't have people do cardio and strength training and same workout. They did 10 weeks of cardio conditioning followed by some strain training. So yeah, being an overall better fitness and better shape is going to make the strain training more effective. But if you do everything in the same workout, what you do first gets the greatest adaptation. This is, by the way, it's even true for exercises. The exercise you

Starting point is 00:08:01 do at the beginning of workout is we're going to see fractionally more strength gains in the exercises you do at the end. So if your goal is to bring up your chest or your shoulders or your legs or whatever, you should probably do those exercises at the beginning of the workout and then the ones at the end of the body parts that you have less concern over. And we've known this again for a long time. So it's misleading. And this is what academia does phenomenally in the fitness space. They do this so well as they'll take a study and then mislead the shit out of everybody

Starting point is 00:08:30 or confuse them and no fault to Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Yeah, I don't think she has. That wasn't her goal. I don't think she has malintent. No, over it. I just think that, but this is the problem to those that we get and we get to always get tagged on stuff like this is that

Starting point is 00:08:50 really what we're talking about whether you do your cardio six weeks leading before or post workout or you like to do it that way it really is splitting hair argue like it's not even the it's not even the main conversation in my opinion yeah great that's a part I don't like that's a part because then that's why I we get with you I have to go back and forth in DMs and have to explain to somebody what they're trying to communicate for white and white. And then I catch myself doing our time. It's like, who fucking cares? This is not even something that we should be arguing about. This is not of all the big rocks that you should be worrying about, whether you do your

Starting point is 00:09:15 cardio right before, right afterwards, six weeks leading up to, it's like, that stuff does not matter when I have somebody that has got poor eating habits and has poor exercise habits, doesn't know how to program correctly. So many other big rocks versus like, okay, let's argue over when and how much, like, come on. Yeah, how consistent have you been? Like how is this something that you've been able to replicate over and over again, versus like,

Starting point is 00:09:42 you know, worrying about having this cardio in front or at the end, or like if your meal timing is like perfectly dialed in in terms of like, yeah, I need to get this protein immediately. I have to work out. Like, there's all these like little nuance things that people just get like stuck on, which, you know, the overall picture is just so much more important. 100%. You look at the scale of things. What makes a big impact? What makes a medium impact? What makes a tiny impact? Okay, that medium impact, what makes a tiny impact. Okay, that's what you need to pay attention to. Who's the person that should worry about

Starting point is 00:10:10 doing cardio before after the workout? This is the advanced body builder or the advanced person who has everything dialed in, likes to tweak the knobs a half a direction this way, a half a degree this way. That's a person that makes sense to you. But I'll give you guys an example. This 100% would happen if I was still managing gyms. I guarantee, let's say this video she puts out goes out.

Starting point is 00:10:31 I 100% this would happen. A member would walk up to me and be like, how? I just saw Dr. Ronda Patrick say that, cardio before the workout is better, but I hate doing cardio at first. I like doing it at the end That's just the way I like to work out like like should I what should I do? I like just doesn't matter or let's flip it around

Starting point is 00:10:54 Cardio in the beginning. I know that that you said that that makes me gain a little bit less strength and muscle But I like to jog to the gym and it really I that. I jog to the gym and then I work out. So I do my cardio before, like, should I just drive to the gym and not do any more jogging? I'm like, no, doesn't make that big, doesn't make that big of a difference. It's a small difference. It doesn't make the big difference is consistency.

Starting point is 00:11:17 Do you enjoy the workout? Is this something you want to do? So the point you're making at them, 100%. And what you're always going to hear experienced coaches and trainers communicate to are the big things, not the small things. Well, how about the client who, it's so hard to get them to do a couple exercises.

Starting point is 00:11:35 You know what I'm saying? And then they hear this like, oh, I need to be doing this. I need to do that. I need to work out in front of my work. Right. That is part of the problem. Is that so many people think that you have to do so much

Starting point is 00:11:45 to make these big changes in your life and because we in the fitness space make it so nuanced. And we all want to argue over these things that don't matter that much. It's like, man, I'm over here trying to struggle with the average person, just getting them motivated to come in and exercise three times a week. It's like, if we can just get you to walk

Starting point is 00:12:02 a little bit more through your day and I can get you to pick up, to pick up the barbell every once in a while, and do a few movements, like we are winning. And then we get this stuff where you got people arguing over like the stuff that just does not matter to me, and it just drives me crazy. And we always get tagged on it

Starting point is 00:12:17 because of this, the information that we communicate. But, you know, unless it's a study that just came out tomorrow, they're likely or today, right? The likelihood that we haven't read it and tried to unpack it and then see how we would apply that to clients, it's gonna be rare. And what we know, what we've already figured out, the big rocks and things that really matter,

Starting point is 00:12:38 we've already pieced all this stuff together. So even anything that comes out in the next five years, study wise, we're not gonna have this breakthrough that's gonna be like, oh my God, this whole time. We had no idea. We would do this wrong like all we had to do was do Cardio right before we wait trade and the fucking fat would just have melted off like that's not gonna happen to us No, no, we're not I guarantee there's not gonna be a study It's gonna come out that's gonna make me go oh my god everything I thought to be true. Yeah, it's not gonna happen We'll see little things here and there.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And usually what happens, and this is not being arrogant, again, this is just because of our experience, usually what happens is studies come out and confirm kind of what we've been communicating that we didn't have studies to support. I'll give you guys an example. A study just came out and I'm actually laying, good friend of mine, Lane Norton.

Starting point is 00:13:23 A lot of you may know who he is, is actually doing a deep dive into the study, okay? So study comes out that shows that artificial sweeteners may have an effect or impair glucose metabolism in the body through affecting the microbiome of the gut or the body. In other words, something you've been saying on the podcast for a very long time. Yeah, and what I've been saying is this, again, big rocks.

Starting point is 00:13:47 If taking artificial sweeteners is the only way you can cut your calories down, so now you're at a deficit, the benefits probably greater than the potential detriment, although that's never been my strategy. I've never seen it be successful with anybody except for the competitors. Competitors. Only people I've ever seen are successful. Yeah, who track every single, whatever, and you don't want to live that way, right?

Starting point is 00:14:07 But what have we always said, there is an effect, even if the effect is just to proceed. It's not innocuous. Even if the effect is just perceived sweetness, that's an effect on the body, and that means that there's going to be other effects that we don't know about, even if it's just behavioral, right? Anyway, this study comes out, the shows,

Starting point is 00:14:22 there may be an effect on insulin sensitivity or glucose metabolism, and it's gonna kind of support what we've been saying, which is it's not innocuous. There's, if there wasn't an effect, nobody would use artificial sweeteners, and people would say, what do you mean? What effect?

Starting point is 00:14:37 Well, you taste it, you perceive it, that's an effect. Does that affect your behaviors? Of course it does, otherwise you wouldn't take it in the first place. Nonetheless, I'm not gonna dive deep into it because Lane's super honest, got tons of integrity and what he does very well better than anybody as he takes the study, and I know what he's doing right now.

Starting point is 00:14:55 He's literally writing probably a 20 page essay on the whole thing. Line for line. Yeah, so when he gets that out, I'm sure he'll talk about it and then I'll get on the phone with him and he'll break it down for me. And, you know, he's a scientist. So did you guys talk much about it already? Did you or was it just oh yeah, so anytime I see a study in a space that I know he's very, very versed in, right? I'll send it to him and he's usually he's really good. He's really honest. He'll say, oh, this is actually a good study,

Starting point is 00:15:18 or he'll say he'll break it down. Now that sucks because whatever. Let for example, that study that had come out that showed that there was like a 90% conflict of interest with the governing body that determines our dietary guidelines. Yeah. And he said, yeah, I know that sucks. And he says, but I don't know how else. No one else is gonna fund it. Yeah, he goes, because he got funded. Remember, he studied losing.

Starting point is 00:15:41 That was his big thesis when he was in college. And he said, I wasn't gonna go to the the fricking wheat industry to get funding for loosing. I had to go to the beef industry and the dairy industry. So people may say, oh, you're influenced by beef and dairy, you know, but he's like, where else am I going to get the money at the money? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, he's very honest about that kind of stuff.

Starting point is 00:16:00 So I, I'll let everybody know what he says about that. But again, I stand by what I said at the very least, there's behavioral impacts from artificial swimmers, which is why studies show unless they're controlling every damn calorie, average person, if they just switch out their artificial swimmers, they're normal swimmers for artificial swimmers. They don't lose weight because their behaviors change to make up the calories. This is what ends up out there. It's crazy though that how much we've been talking about that for so long now that we can't get just a little bit of trust on that.

Starting point is 00:16:32 Just because there's not a study for it, when you collectively think of how many total people, why aren't people losing weight? Artificial sweeteners have been around for a long time. I mean, I mean, how many of each and one of us individually have trained a lot of people and combined, it's like, and the only group that I saw value with the diet sodas and the artificial sweeteners is the competitors. Because they track everything. Yeah, because everything is being tracked and otherwise,

Starting point is 00:16:54 I mean, measure everything. Yeah, otherwise what ends up happening, you end up eating more calories somewhere else. And I even catch this as my own behavior and I have an ex-competitor and I know that. It's that, and I remember who I was talking about, I talked about it on the show, I remember you shared it. There's this kind of interesting phenomenon that happens that went for myself when I have a soda, a regular soda that I know has 180 or 220 calories in it, I know that I'm getting calories.

Starting point is 00:17:21 Therefore, I'm less likely to have a second or a third of it with that because I'm already like, oh, okay, I've gonna put that because I'm already like, oh okay, I've already had that, it was one treat for me. Versus if I'm having diet coax, it's like, oh, zero. Next thing you know, it was from one, two, to three, to four, if you're drinking so many of them. And then what I notice is it spikes my appetite and other things, then I want other things to eat.

Starting point is 00:17:42 And so then I end up eating those catacarges behaviors. The 180 calories I saved on the soda, I end up consuming in other foods, you know I want other things to eat. And so that I end up eating those cat the cowards. The courage is behaviors. The 180 calories I saved on the soda, I end up consuming in other foods, you know, where my meal's so. So, you're talking about, so I'm gonna switch gears here, but you wanna talk about some revelations that I had this morning.

Starting point is 00:17:54 So, I was this morning, I'm dropping my daughter off at school and we're having a good conversation. And I'm talking about how a lot of kids still in her school are wearing masks. And I'm like, what a lot of kids still, in her school, are wearing masks. And I'm like, what is going on with that? And you know, you don't have to wear them anymore, but I kind of get it.

Starting point is 00:18:11 You know, they've now, the past year and a half, they've worn them. So it's like, you have to be the first one to take it off. So then I'm talking to her about how silly kids are for following trends, it's just kind of turned into this conversation. How silly kids are for following trends? Just because celebrities do something,

Starting point is 00:18:26 or whoever's cool's gotta do something, they gotta do it too. It's so stupid, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, we had this conversation about it, and I left feeling super like, yeah, you know, I'm teaching her a lot of good stuff. Then I come in here and I start working out and Vicki's in here, so I switched off my death metal

Starting point is 00:18:43 because I know that she doesn't like it, and I put on my 90's hip hop. So 90's hip hops on, I'm working out. And Chris Cross comes on. Remember Chris Cross? Of course. Chris Cross will make you jump. Anyways, this was like what, 93?

Starting point is 00:18:54 So this was at these two kids, they went back in those days, I didn't have the term viral, but they went viral went big. And I realized how judgemental I was of kids because this literally happened everybody. Okay, so everybody who's like 40 and older, you remember this, everybody else, I'm about to tell you something that's so stupid and ridiculous

Starting point is 00:19:13 that's embarrassing to talk about. So Chris Cross, they were this hip hop group and they wore their clothes backwards. This was part of what they did. Literally pants and shirt backwards. And guess what all the kids did. Everybody did it too. War their close backwards. It's the stupidest thing ever. My friends did and it was pretty crazy. And too, overalls, backwards and then it's just so unfunctional. You're showing up.

Starting point is 00:19:43 Remember going to the bathroom. Yeah, exactly. Well, isn't it? Well, isn't it? It's, you've talked about this before about the how the generation coming up, no matter what, is always going to buck the system, right? It's a part of rebellion. It is. So that's, even though you think it's trendy, right?

Starting point is 00:19:59 But it always starts from a place of rebellion first. So it gets crazy and popular, and then I was like, oh, it's so trendy, oh, you're just falling in thing. But the reason why it got traction was because it was bucking the system originally. And we still see that today. You know what I mean? You still see, and it normally is started

Starting point is 00:20:15 by somebody who has power and influence. I mean, if you read the book, hit makers, it talks about that's what is viral. Virality is a myth. There's no such thing as like, somebody does something and it goes viral. It's that something gets shared by somebody who has a lot of influence and power. Oprah Winfrey, your big name, famous people, shares something and then it gets introduced to millions at once.

Starting point is 00:20:36 And then those millions of people, I mean, but perfect timing for it, dude. I honestly think that sagging the pants was more stupid. Yeah. Well, that's still happening though. That's like excessive sagging though. There used to have kids who would come in, literally like their entire butt would be. Everything. Yeah. Out there in the public.

Starting point is 00:20:54 Everything. Yeah, did you guys, so you never wear your clothes backwards for a second? No. Did you do it? No, I sagged my pants so for sure. I did. I wore my clothes.

Starting point is 00:21:02 Oh, you wore backwards. I had overall. No, you did, bro. I did, bro. Bro, what I would pay clothes. Oh, you wore backwards. I had overall. No, you did, bro. I did, bro. What I would pay for that picture. I know, right? You got a picture of that?

Starting point is 00:21:10 Did you have cornrows, too? No, I didn't go that way. I didn't go that way. I didn't go that way. I love that. Literally, you know, my one attempt at life to try to be trendy after that I was, I'm not doing the same. I literally had a pair of overalls that I wore backwards.

Starting point is 00:21:24 No. My best friend, Janet. I wish I had a picture of that. I was like, ten, ten, but I was like, you know, because I was really I'm not doing the same. I literally had a pair of overalls that I wore backwards. No, my best friend, I was like, I was like, 10th, but I was like, you know, cause I was really in the, like, it was more MC Hammer and then it went into like, Chris Cross and all that. And then it was like, House of Pain. I was more on the House of Pain. Besides that kind of like,

Starting point is 00:21:38 we're the Larry Bird Jersey and stuff like that. And so I got into kind of that stuff. Yeah, but that's not nearly as embarrassing as wearing clothes backwards. What? I mean, yeah, I don't know what I didn't get it. I'm trying to think of you now you got me thinking of like, what's the dumbest trend that I did?

Starting point is 00:21:53 You know, what's the dumbest thing? Well, you had frosted tips, but a lot of people had to. No, that was cool. We were talking about, I might bring that back. If I had hair, I'd bring it back, dude. Ah. You too. Pussy shells, you do puk-a shells. Okay, listen, no, I did do that. Did you ever pierce your. Put the shells, you do punkish shells.

Starting point is 00:22:06 Okay, listen, no, I did. Did you ever pierce your nipple or something? No, no, no, no, no. But you know, I actually never, okay, let me get some clarity here. I never frosted my tips. I bleached my hair when I would play sports. And it would grow out. And so then it looks like frosted, which I like, don't, I'm not denying.

Starting point is 00:22:23 I wasn't saying it. I rocked it, you know what I'm saying'm saying I mean it's in my like graduation pictures So you know I owned it for sure, you know, I was my hair I'll kind of never went to like the hair salon and be like could you just do the tips and pull through like one of those fucking Nets that they do you have money to do that you're probably right The poor man versus I literally Bleach under my fucking head and I'm, I gotta wait too much before I look. Burn the shit out of your scalp.

Starting point is 00:22:47 So I'm trying, okay, so that, I mean, okay, you could get that, get me there, but I wouldn't. But that's not as bad as backwards clothes. No, I win this right now. That's so embarrassing. No, yeah, backwards, I mean. Did you do the jankos on top of that? I guess that was another thing.

Starting point is 00:23:00 That wasn't a jankos. No, okay, so I couldn't, there was, remember Janko jeans were like a hundred bucks. Really? Yeah, dude. You like to knock off. There was no way in hell. Knock off, Janko's even worse.

Starting point is 00:23:11 I mean, I had excessively baggy pants, no doubt. Like, that was like a thing that was just like, everybody can't wait. Okay, so I was super baggy. Yeah. And I look back at those pictures and like, God, it looks like Sitchin, like a, it's just a raggle a small for a small window

Starting point is 00:23:27 I do remember doing this and which would go in line with like your terrible jinko pants Silver tab jeans were like a big deal Right, so we would buy silver tab jeans and we would buy them like size 40 Yeah, yeah, so and you'd have to strip belt strap up just so the bottom would be so so big to fit like over boots and shit like that That's what I so that's very close to like I did the silver tabs because the jankos are too expensive Oh, well, silver tabs are expensive not like did not love it jankos. Oh, so it had to be loose because you had to be able to hacky sack You know in between class, bro I was like vital remember trying to run in your big ass pants

Starting point is 00:24:07 The bottom where the heels always be shredding. Yeah, bottom. So, okay, another realization I had. That way, say, I would, you had to do some stupid. Do you do, where, do you remember what was the craziest trend you did close wise? What they do back in 40s? Yeah, something like that. I had to. I had to duck, sir.

Starting point is 00:24:22 Yeah, you had to get the right leopard skin. Honestly, I don't remember. I remember following fashion trends and realizing I never felt good in the clothes. I was just doing it because it was a fashion trend. Like, was it Ralph Lauren? I never thought I looked good in it, actually. That type of stuff.

Starting point is 00:24:42 Let's see, let's see. When you were like, this is junior high. That's like, in my opinion, that's the it actually. That type of stuff. Let's see, let's see. When you were like, because this is junior high, that's like, in my opinion, that's the peak of where you just follow stuff. Yeah, junior high high school. What years were you in junior high? So that you're talking on like 13. Junior high to early high school.

Starting point is 00:24:54 Like 13, 14. Yeah, so late 70s was junior high. Okay. Late 70s, what would have been dumb in the late, so you all bought them? They all bought them. They all bought them. Yeah, so I remember in high school, this is a good one.

Starting point is 00:25:04 In high school, I was part of the jazz band. Yeah. And the uniform was black bell bottom pants, black platform shoes, and a blue ruffled tux shirts and a black bow tie. Yeah, that was the uniform. Like a pirate, like ruffled pirate shirt. You know, remember the old tux shirts? They used to have like ruffles down the front and they had ruffles around the uniform. Like a pirate, like ruffle pirate shirt. Remember the old tuck shirts?

Starting point is 00:25:25 They used to have like ruffles down the front and they had ruffles around the sleeves. Yeah, seriously. That's what we wore. What did you play? I saw some of that this weekend. Let's kind of pimp. Look, I've known you for like 10 years.

Starting point is 00:25:37 I didn't really play the drum bone. Oh yeah, man. I played the drum bone. Wow. I used to play the trumpet. Bro, I mean, you should jam some. Yeah, we should. We have that. You guys got our chicks. We got our, bro. I mean, you should jam some. Yeah, we should. We have a trick.

Starting point is 00:25:45 We've got a trick. We've got a trick. Yeah. Let me tell you, we each have your own door card, I think. You know what? I don't know, I think it got thrown out, but we had a picture taken on this pier in Washington off on Lake Washington.

Starting point is 00:25:59 And we're all wearing our tux shirts and our black pants and our platform shoes and holding our instruments. And it was a big, like a large format photo. But unfortunately, I don't think I have any. I think it got thrown out when I moved. Yes, I did band for a few years. I stopped in seventh grade, because I didn't want to carry my trumpet to school

Starting point is 00:26:21 literally, but this is my first kiss was because of band. That was my first kiss. Yeah, there was a girl in band. Yeah, there was a girl in band. Yeah, there was band girls. There was a girl in band. What'd you do with the apple pie cell? Oh, good.

Starting point is 00:26:35 She was too hot. No, she was, she was, she wasn't even that attractive. Sorry if she's watching. I wasn't really into, but you know, when you're that age. She probably felt the same way. Yeah, I'm a kid.

Starting point is 00:26:48 Overall, I'm back. She was super into me. Yeah, right. That's beyond a super into me. No, you know what I did. I'm sure of it. You know what I did? Something's so changed.

Starting point is 00:26:56 Keep going. I was very confident that she was super into it. No, we went in the back room where all the instruments were, and I made one of the band kids watch the door for me so we can make out in there. That was the first time I got ahead of kids, yeah. What grade is this? This was seventh grade. Okay.

Starting point is 00:27:13 Seventh grade, and yeah. You were making out seventh grade? Well, I wasn't making out to hide it. I, you know, I realized that my kids started watching the podcast, so we're gonna stop there. It's great, bro. Let's just say it was, I actually had this conversation with my daughter last night where I'd dinner. When was your first kiss? I'm like, how much information do I give to my kid?

Starting point is 00:27:29 I was, do I lie? About all this stuff. You boost everything a few more years later. I was 30. You said, I'm 30. Wait a minute, you married my mom when you were 20. I went to the kiss. Anyway, here's another realization, right?

Starting point is 00:27:39 So after my workout, I got Andrew and Kyle and Dylan up there at this site, so editors and our YouTube producer. And I'm telling stories about when I first started working in this industry, right? So all these stories started popping up. And then I realized, and I'd love to ask you guys this, and I'll tell the story, you guys know the story, but I'll tell it real quick so that there's some context.

Starting point is 00:28:01 But I realized what a massive headache and pain in the ass employee I would be if we hired me at 18. Okay, so here's a story and you guys know this. Cause I always think to myself, oh man, if I had someone like me, it'd be so awesome. But then as I'm telling the story, I'm like, oh man, I was a headache.

Starting point is 00:28:18 Like a rec loose. Oh, I was crazy. So the story I was telling them, and they were like, they couldn't believe this. So you guys remember the barbecue story? So I told this a long time ago, but I was crazy. So, the story I was telling them, and they were like, they couldn't believe this. So, you guys remember the barbecue story? So, I told this a long time ago, but I was 18. I became a trainer, four months later, fitness manager. Then I moved to sales so I could become a general manager, because back in those days, fitness managers become general managers, you had to prove yourself in the sales side.

Starting point is 00:28:39 So, I did, and I had this new manager that I worked for. His name is Don. He's a good friend of mine, one of my first mentors, and it was my first weekend. I ran the weekend, I was a sales manager, right? And the company, on the weekends, we used to compete with other clubs to see who was the best. Now back then, this was before we had internal email.

Starting point is 00:28:57 And so the only way you could know what the other clubs were doing was if you somehow would call and trick the front desk into telling you their numbers Otherwise, it was like do your best and let's you wins at the end of the day, right? But I wanted to know so I used to call these clubs and I would pretend to be the district manager all the time Hey, this assignment. What do we have? And I made his voice because he was this big guy with this big voice or whatever and I'd get their numbers from the front desk Right, and I know what they're at. Anyway, Saturday goes by, I crushed all the clubs,

Starting point is 00:29:26 so I'm first place so far. Sunday comes around and it's like, I don't know, it's like nine at night and I'm first, but I'm only first by like a thousand bucks. I'm like, you know, I could get caught. This isn't good. So I'm like, okay, what do I, I gotta make this happen.

Starting point is 00:29:40 Well anyway, family walks in and you guys know this. When you work in gyms, you can tell who's a member and who's not a member. And I could tell from, I'd watch the parking lot and I'd see them walk up, oh crap, potential members. So I'm all ready to go. Fresh meat. Yeah, so family of four comes in and I'm like, dude,

Starting point is 00:29:57 I'm gonna get them to buy a three year prepaid membership, personal training, like if I any sell like $3,000 worth of this deal so I can for sure win this competition. So they come in, I do the goal assessment, the tour, I mean, I do the whole thing, right? I throw everything at them. We sit down and the man was like, the husband, was like super like, this is like,

Starting point is 00:30:18 he's negotiating everything with me. So we're going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. I'm looking at the clock. It's getting close to 10 p.m. when we're supposed to shut the books down. So I'm like, this needs to happen, right? So we're going, we're going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. I'm looking at the clock. It's getting close to 10 p.m. when we're supposed to shut the books down. So I'm like, this needs to happen, right? So we're going, we're going. Anyway, little backstory. 24-of-fitness used to have competitions every few months or so,

Starting point is 00:30:36 internal competitions. And one of this competition this month was, as a member, every time you worked out, you got to fill out an entry form to win a brand new barbecue set. So in the middle of the gym, literally, we had a barbecue and all the accessories and balloons on it. It was this big display in the middle of the gym and members would come in and fill out

Starting point is 00:30:57 their entry form to win this barbecue. So anyway, I'm going back and forth this guy. Finally, he stands up because I'm not letting him leave, right? He stands up. Nope. We come back tomorrow. I'm not doing it right now. Starts the walk out. So I literally get in front of the door. Stop. And he goes, what? I said, wait right here. I got a surprise for you. So go out to the workout floor and I wheel in the barbecue. Literally, I pull it off

Starting point is 00:31:17 the bar, the floor, I wheel it into the office. So if you sign up right now, you'll get this barbecue. I'll throw this barbecue in. So anyway, he signs up and I win the contest. And the VP comes in and boss comes the next day. Oh my God. VP comes in the next day. Salves, he makes a big announcement. You know, big conference call with all the clubs. Salves, stuff, no new sales guy.

Starting point is 00:31:39 It was only 18 years old. Kicked everybody's ass. Good job. He's gonna be $500. You know, bonus thing. I'm like, excited. I'm first place. Don, my mentor, he's sitting there and he's high five on me. Oh, you're fucking, this is great, man.

Starting point is 00:31:51 We're gonna crush. This is awesome. Nobody notices that the barbecue's gone. So I'm like, okay, cool. Nobody knows, right? Remember I'm a kid, right? Anyway, later that day, I'm at the front desk and up pulls up a pickup truck with a barbecue in the back. And it's the guy that I sold the membership to

Starting point is 00:32:07 and I'm like, oh fuck. There you go. He walks in and I'm like, I don't want to be at the front desk to handle this, so I sneak out and I hear the front desk on the intercom. Don come to the front desk, so they're calling the general manager. He walks up and I'm watching, I'm nervous.

Starting point is 00:32:24 I was in the cardio area, pretending to help people with cardio, but watch. And I'm watching and I see Don go, like shake his head a little bit, then he kind of smirks a little bit and then I can see his mouth. I don't know if he said this, but it looks like he said, oh really? Something like that, right?

Starting point is 00:32:40 So I'm like, damn. So then the guy, Don goes outside, fiddles with the barbecue with the guy for like 45 minutes, then the guy drives off. Then he goes in the office, Sal Don's office, please, I walk in there, and he goes, can you sit down, please? I sit down and he goes,

Starting point is 00:32:54 you're gonna tell me what happened yesterday? I'm like, what? Yeah, we sold a bunch of memberships. He's like, that guy just told me you gave away the barbecue, and he brought it in because it wasn't working I had to go out there and fix it for him. I'm like, oh, yeah, I thought I'd you know, I wanted a win $30,000. Yeah, we want yeah, so he we had this long talk and he's like listen

Starting point is 00:33:15 He goes I like that you have to put a leash on you and pull you back I'd rather do that than have to kick you in the butt. You can't do that He goes, you know, I'm supposed to fire you right now, but I'm gonna make up a cover story. Anyway, him and I became best friends after that. But as I'm telling them the story, I could not imagine having an employee like that. Could you imagine, Andrew sold our... Sold our minds.

Starting point is 00:33:37 We're selling stuff. Yeah, that would mean. Although ironically though, I think he did text me this weekend that he's selling shit off in the back door over there. So he is Ironically is hustling imagine he puts out an episode of all the stuff we say off air But it's going viral. No, but we made some jokes man Oh my god, so would you guys so my question for you guys is would you guys like think of yourself when you first started and how crazy

Starting point is 00:34:01 Cuz I know you guys were maniacs too. Definitely you Adam. I know. Would you want, would you have, I mean, it would be a headache dude. Yes and no. Yes and no. Like how much hands on you would need to prevent from doing so. Okay, the part that I would drive me crazy, right?

Starting point is 00:34:17 If hiring myself is that I definitely have that personality of like challenge everything and ask why. Like I am not the type of person who is like, Hey, we're all doing this. I'm like, why are we all doing that? Why? So I definitely would have been that's annoying, right? So I'm sure it wasn't. Oh, my God. You and you. Could you imagine the argument? Trarian. Yeah. You imagine Adam and him.

Starting point is 00:34:39 Oh, I don't know. It's pretty close to what you and I are. So I mean, it is, but we don't work for each other. So we have to give a long rest. That's true. That is true. I yeah, it is, but we don't work for each other. So we have to give long risk. That's true. That is true. That is true. If you work for me or vice versa, that would probably be. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:34:50 I love you and hate you as well. Yeah. I think that's true. But I was, I, you know, I don't have any great stories where I like did some crazy shit like that. I definitely was, I mean, early on, they, I mean, the way they've recruited me, they found me and then I started working there. Like, I mean, the way they've recruited me, they found me, and then I started working

Starting point is 00:35:05 there like, I was liked by my peers, I was liked by my boss because, I mean, I was definitely like a workaholic like, you know, they, yeah, so they, they really liked that, but I can't remember anything where I did like that. That was so crazy where my boss was like ready to fire me. I, you know, I'm sure, you know, there's been things like in the, in there where for sure I've had that conversation, but it was always over other stuff. Is it when, for example, my boss was in here who was my boss for a long time.

Starting point is 00:35:33 He probably would be like, oh, I get a long list of shit. But it was always like, I would disregard things that I thought didn't matter. Like an example would be like, that would know he is that as a boss. Yeah, that's like the point man. Well, I told the story, I don't know if I told the story on air,

Starting point is 00:35:49 I know I've told you guys a story of where, there was a time where I had just finished like my club, this was actually the second club I ran, and we finished it like a 115% of goal, right? So which is anything over 100%, great, 115 crushing, we were top in the district. They come down, the VP comes down, the division president comes down,

Starting point is 00:36:08 and then one other person, oh, it went my DM, all three come down. And I actually think they're coming down, tell me how great I am. I'm like, oh, they're gonna come in and be like, you know, high five in me and this, they come in and they do like a full deep dive on my club. Now, part of why they came down there was

Starting point is 00:36:21 because how much success we're having, so they wanted to know what we're doing. But it ended up being like this full on diving through all my stuff. And they actually ended up riding me up for not having my, my MAB highlighted out and like they wanted me to do it your way, baby. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:36:37 I was very disorganized. Like I was not, and I had a counterpart who they always compare me to. There was two of us that were really successful and he come from the banking industry. And he meant, where's he at now? Yeah, right.

Starting point is 00:36:48 So he totally did things differently. And he was nowhere near, like they didn't do the same kind of sales we did. I was the top producer. Like I have the, still the company record for a fitness manager in sales there, right? And so that was what I was known for. I was known for leading from the front,

Starting point is 00:37:05 being a great sales guy on the fitness side, teaching my staff to be able to do a lot of stuff, but then I was really bad about these things. And they came in, they like ripped my ass. And so then I was like, and this is what a shit I am, right? So then I was like, okay, next month, I'm not gonna sell shit. I'm gonna be the most organized guy ever.

Starting point is 00:37:23 And I was like all systems, all systems, and all month long, I'm like blanking. organized guy ever and I was like all systems all systems and all month long I'm like blanking and nobody's really saying anything my boss isn't even saying to me because I still Have written more revenue than anybody any of my peers So he's not gonna razz me if I got if I'm at zero dollars, you know midway through the month He's like, you know, Adam will sell or it doesn't matter like whatever right? So no one's saying anything to me So anyways the month finishes up and I really didn't sell hardly anything. If I'd like to deal that, like fell on my lap.

Starting point is 00:37:48 So I, like, and I made a point not to, like I was like, my point was to get all organized. And we, and we don't, I don't think we actually hit goal. I think we were short by a few percent, like 90-something percent of goal. So we were short. So the divisional president sends out an email the next day after the month is over that all fitness managers who wrote under $1,500

Starting point is 00:38:09 are to report to Mountain View on Saturday morning at 8 a.m. for a sales training. That was 100% because of you. And I was pissed because that was the first time I'd ever even had that low of a month. The whole point of me doing that was to show them, like, here, I'll do all the things that you do it your way, and we'll see how the club does versus doing it my way. And then they roll out this thing, and I refuse to go. So I wouldn't go.

Starting point is 00:38:33 And then the DM called me and he was like, you have to go, I'm not going, fire him. Fire him. So I was that guy, that was, and I refuse. He hung up the phone, he's like, hold on, let me see what you do, causing me back, he's like, here's the deal. show you, do, cause me back he's like, right, here's the deal. Cause here's my argument, I am the top fitness sales guy

Starting point is 00:38:49 in the company for this. And you're gonna make me go on a Saturday and sit and listen to somebody teach me who I can do that better than? No, I'm not going. I did what you guys told me to do. So I refuse, he hangs up the phone. I like there's so mad about it.

Starting point is 00:39:02 I still, he hangs up the phone. He calls, he calls obviously. What I'm putting in your place. His boss, right? Totally, that's exactly what I felt too. And I'm like, I'm not, I'll burn this bridge if I have to. Like, that's how crazy I was. Like, whatever, fire me then. So he calls, I'm sure his boss calls me back to this.

Starting point is 00:39:18 Okay, here's the deal. This is what I figured out. Okay, you do not have to go to this class. I want you to teach it. So you need to teach it. And I'm like, okay, you do not have to go to this class. I want you to teach it. So you need to teach it. And I'm like, it's still punishment. You're still punishing me for running my club the way you want to be.

Starting point is 00:39:31 You tried to psychology you know. Oh, he tried. And it's just, so I never went. So I didn't go and I refused to go. Bro, I'm starting to, I'm starting to, there's a big ordeal about it. I'm starting to understand now why people were like, you telling me, you need to work with Adam

Starting point is 00:39:42 and the people were telling you need to work with Adam. There's a, there's a common thread. Yeah, yeah. Little bit. Yeah, Justin, you were, you need to work with Adam and the people were telling you need to work with Adam. There's a common thread. Yeah, a little bit. Justin, you were probably more of a- That was pretty good, employee. I mean, for the most part, you were great at telling people fuck with me. And then I was like, I don't deal with the drama

Starting point is 00:39:55 the same way you guys do. I just some like, oh yeah, as I was gonna happen, well I'm out. I'm gonna do this better than you all by myself, my own rules established. You did. And that's just how I am, dude. It's just like, and that's how even when I was like,

Starting point is 00:40:10 pretty much somewhat coachable, but then not coachable. They've realized real quickly, like, let's just leave him alone. He does way better. You know what? That's the key, I think, when you have somebody that works for you like that, is you gotta know how to guide them,

Starting point is 00:40:25 and I was like that very much. Leave me alone, let me tell me what to do, and then give me parameter. I needed some parameter. I structured. The real test would have been, how do you not had me as the person who's here? That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:40:37 Because you knew you understood that. Yes, 100%. So he, so, pardon out a long time ago. Yeah, pardon his journey of being that agreeable, amazing guy was because I recognize that right out the gates. You probably let him do his thing. Yeah, 100%. And I, if he worked for somebody else, I bet it would be a different story because either

Starting point is 00:40:54 like you said, he probably would either piece out or he would have put it heads. But I, yeah, and that's the thing. I worked really hard at other professions before that and like did a lot of different jobs and grinded my way through it. But it got to a point where if we had a disagreement or we had things where I knew that they were not acknowledging the amount of effort, I wouldn't come in and ask for the world, but sometimes I'm like, look, we gotta revisit this

Starting point is 00:41:21 and then they wouldn't wanna change anything in terms of how I was going to pay. And I'm like, well, see you later. I'm going to get a better job. And I did. I had a level of, for some things, a level of clockiness that I look back on. I go, where did that come?

Starting point is 00:41:34 I literally go, I'll tell you where it came from. Because that's what I was just going to say right now. The part that people don't know that not everybody fully understands unless you were there back then or standing that, it's like, we earned that. It's not like I was just like cocky shithead. And it was like, and I, it was proven. And I would just buck, you know, buck my boss.

Starting point is 00:41:51 And it's like, I was not. It was very agreeable. I was an incredible employee. But then I also had like, like when I believed in something or in like felt strongly about something, like I felt strongly, like what that led to that situation was I felt so strongly about the way I led my team that having somebody just because you're an upper management

Starting point is 00:42:10 come in and be like, you're doing all these things wrong. This is how you need to do it. It was my integrity is that what got in the way. Is this a, I truly believed in like, I knew what I was doing and how I needed to run this team and here you're gonna come in and tell me that's not how you run things. So I said, okay, I'll run it your way.

Starting point is 00:42:28 I ran it your way. And then you're gonna punish me for that, we're like, no. Yeah, but then there's also this difference. Cockiness works when you say, I'm gonna do something and then you do it. So like I told, literally I told the founder, Mark Mastroff, literally the godfather of the fitness industry, came in one of my clubs to see why

Starting point is 00:42:47 or how I was doing what I was doing at the time. And I told him, I wanna be a general manager. He said, you're too young, I was 19. And I literally said to him, tell me what you need me to do. I don't care what it is, and I'll do it. And then you gotta make me a general manager. And he laughed, he said, no, it doesn't work that way. And I literally told him, okay, I'm gonna crush so hard

Starting point is 00:43:07 that it's gonna be embarrassing not to, I told the founder that, now that's very cocky, but if I didn't follow it up, then it'd be so. That's everything, that's you know that, do you know that when Tom Brady was like, I think the six round, like a hundred and something pick, so he was like so late in the draft and he had such a chip on his shoulder

Starting point is 00:43:24 because you know when he met Robert Kraft, the owner of the Patriots, he looked him in the eyes and said, you just made the best decision you've ever made. Could you imagine that? So forget some billionaires. Like you draft guys all the time. This guy goes in the sixth round, a hundred nine and looking him in the eye and saying like, you just made the best decision you've ever made. He's like? I mean, they're stacked. Yeah. And you have to think a part of him kind of chuckled or laugh and then like holy shit. Well, imagine if you had a,

Starting point is 00:43:50 because this is the kind of shit I would have done, right? I would have gone to them and said, I wanna make this much money. What do I need to do to make that much money? And I'd put it on them. And then I don't care what you tell me, I'm gonna try and do that. That's very different than, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:02 this is what I deserve, this is what I, so yeah, it comes across as cocky, but I, I mean, I was... I mean, you talking about this obviously brings up all kinds of crazy memories and stories for me, but... I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think of myself as somebody who was like a great employee, because I did always go above and beyond. It was very successful from my, my, my boss had a lot of success because of the success that I had and everything, but you're right There was definitely things like that were like if I really felt strongly about something like I would I would stand my ground I'd never got fired and never had any of that so with that because you it's hard to fire your top sales guy Well, it is. Yeah, you know it and especially if you do like I did things the right way

Starting point is 00:44:39 I didn't cheat the system right doing my thing. I didn't have success that way And so it's just like I I didn't know I couldn't give the barbecue away. So it's also what they told me. You know, corporate America, that's what, when you're screaming, I know we have listeners for sure that like, this is one of the most chump, by the way, one of the best books I ever read

Starting point is 00:44:56 that really calm me down around like this conversation, working in corporate America, like working in corporate America is one of the most challenging things, especially if you're really good at your job, because it's inevitable at one point in your career, if not for a long period of your career, somebody shitter than you is going to be your boss. Paul, it's just part of the game. It's part of the game. Yes. And John C. Maxwell wrote a book called 360-Liter that talked about. I love this book because

Starting point is 00:45:21 it talks about managing and leading your leaders in your bosses. Oh, that's great. I love this book because it talks about managing and leading your leaders in your bosses. Oh, that's great. And so, and it's like really around the art of conversation and still leading even when you're in a place of, you know, where you're following. Yes. So it's a great, it was a great read and it was such a,

Starting point is 00:45:37 it came at a certain, a great point in my life because I was getting frustrated in my mid 20s of feeling like my boss, my boss is boss. For sure you're gonna get a Lundberg. Yeah, in the mix. It is. That wants your TPS reports all the time. And it'll ruin a good fucking matter.

Starting point is 00:45:51 It'll ruin a really good employee that is meant to do great things because you'll stifle their growth. But I'll tell you what happened at that point in my life was one of the most pivotal because I remember at that time in my life, I was still so pivotal because I remember at that time in my life, I was still so hung up on climbing the corporate ladder. Like I had aspirations of being the vice president and like that's really, like I was so,

Starting point is 00:46:14 I would bleed for that company. And when I recognize quickly like, God, I'm barely here in my career and I know I wanna be five more levels up and it's taking me eight years to get here. God, how old am I going to be? And I remember that I was attaching myself worth to this title or on my name badge and an income, and I thought, why am I allowing this company, this invisible person this company, this invisible person, to control my personal growth. If I really want to, what is it that I want to be if I want to be the CEO of this company

Starting point is 00:46:51 or I want to be that's like, okay, well then what stops me from learning everything he knows? Like what stops me from growing? Like I'm right now blaming you on the company. Well, I'm not, I'm not the CEO or I'm not going because they won't put me to DM and then they won't put me to VP. It's like, okay, well, what's to stop me from educating myself and getting as smart as all those people

Starting point is 00:47:10 where to. And then it was this huge, and that was like, let's send me down the rabbit hole of like reading like crazy, but up into that point into my life. It's very empowering when you make that big, big, big difference. All right, I'm gonna turn back to fitness and health here now for a second.

Starting point is 00:47:24 So did you guys know that, okay, so melatonin, right, the hormone that's produced at night when we sleep, you know, it's closely connected to growth hormone. So if melatonin production is low, growth hormone also tends to be low or is affected. So melatonin's got kind of these far reaching effects. So if you're getting crappy sleep or, for example, if you're exposing yourself to lots of electronic light right before you go to bed, melatonin production is reduced, and theoretically, and there is some studies to suggest that this is the case, your growth hormone will also be affected. And growth hormone, you know, was commonly referred to as like the

Starting point is 00:48:03 fountaine of youth of their youth hormone. A lot of people, as they get older, they'll take growth hormone to feel younger, better skin, all that other stuff. If your sleep isn't optimized, you're not just affecting melatonin, which you need, it's healthy for you, you need that. You're also probably affecting your growth hormone. So again, one of the sponsors we work with is Felix Gray, Blue Light Blocking Glasses.

Starting point is 00:48:28 Such an easy way, such a simple and easy way to potentially improve or increase your growth hormone production. And I like things that are easy because you don't have to do much. You just put glasses on and then you can watch TV and do your normal stuff. You don't have to turn the lights off. Although that's ideal, it would be best if you turned everything off. You just put glasses on and you you can watch TV and do your normal stuff. You don't have to turn the lights off. Although that's ideal, it'll be best if you turn everything off. You just put glasses on and you'll see an improvement. So does that naturally shift based on the circadian rhythms?

Starting point is 00:48:56 Say the sun goes down and then your body just will naturally shift over into more growth hormone type of production, but having that stimulus of the blue light like keeps that sense that, you know, it's still daytime, it's still alert, it's still up. Yeah, because it takes time for your brain and your body to get ready for sleep. It isn't just, oh, time for bed,

Starting point is 00:49:21 turn everything off, go to sleep. Because now your brain's like, okay, let's prepare to go to sleep. But what you've done is you've gone to bed eight hours before you to wake up thinking, oh, I'm gonna get eight hours of sleep. No, you're not. You're not gonna get eight hours of great sleep

Starting point is 00:49:32 because it takes an hour or two to get your body into that state. So you're really getting like six hours of good sleep and two hours of crappy sleep. So it's not the same. Now, since you mentioned earlier on this podcast our friend, Layne Norton, I'm gonna play devil's advocate with you because I'd like to hear how you explain this because he would make the case that It's a in acute

Starting point is 00:49:52 Issue and then growth hormone returns therefore. It's not that big of a deal kind of like how he responded to Ben Greenfield's When Ben Greenfield was on Fasting. Yeah, oh the fasting post workout. Yeah. Oh, the fasting post workout. Yeah, yeah. And he's talking about, yeah, okay, that's what happens acutely in that moment, but then everything kind of balanced itself out there for it doesn't matter.

Starting point is 00:50:13 Yes, okay, so. And say, and I would, Yes and no, okay. Yes and no. So yes, you probably do get some balancing effect. However, this is the part that makes the biggest impact. Not just on growth hormone, but on testosterone, cortisol. I mean, every hormone gets affected negatively

Starting point is 00:50:28 by just having worse sleep. So, that's how I would defend. Yeah, if it makes you have better sleep, and we need the values of that, which is something he would not deny, it's like, then why would you? To try it. Literally, I give some to my parents, and they're always like, oh, yours turns to do something. I said, just try it. at night, put this on,

Starting point is 00:50:47 seven o'clock a night, just put them on. Doesn't change anything, doesn't make the room orange or red, you know, cause the few spray glasses are clear. Just put them on and then let me know if you notice a difference and they do. Well, the point you made, I think is, cause here's the thing, we talk always about all natural, you know, ways, and there's an all natural way to do this.

Starting point is 00:51:05 The reality of it is that nobody's doing that. Who turns off their electronics, you know what? Yeah, when the sun goes down, who shuts all their fluorescent lights off in their house. Who just conditioned culturally to wanna like, veg out and entertain ourselves, and we're still like taking all that blue light.

Starting point is 00:51:20 Because that's what I would say to somebody who would scoff at something like that, how silly or ridiculous it is, I'd be like, yeah, okay, well, if you're someone who's disciplined enough to, at night, when the sun goes down, shut your fluorescent lights off, turn the TV off, turn your computers off, don't look at your phone anymore then. Go by candlelight. Yeah, then, hey, that's a, that's a free way to do it. And probably really good for you. And I would totally be a fan if a client said, you know, it's a

Starting point is 00:51:42 churn butter. Yeah. That's an option. Yeah. No, you're right. That's a great point. And that's just it. And now in today's time, people are around electronics till almost they crash and they're using fluorescent lights. And so to Salis Point, it's such an easy fix.

Starting point is 00:51:59 It's why I have so many pairs. Like people come over my house like, what's with all these, you don't even wear glasses. I'm like, no, they're all blue blockers, and I just I keep them throughout the house So I never have an excuse So if I'm down you know downstairs in a certain area in a room or what that and I'm in its late nights out It's like and I just throw them on it's an easy fix for me. Yeah, when I was in in Tahoe I noticed the huge and I didn't bring them and

Starting point is 00:52:21 We were at the casino and I would you know I tried to go to bed late, because we're out right there, so midnight when I am, but because casinos are designed to keep you awake. Like they literally design casinos to keep you stimulated in awake, and that's why they allow smoking in there,

Starting point is 00:52:36 and I saw that. Pump oxygen in there. Oh, they do too. Yeah, you didn't know that. I don't know, they pump oxygen into the room. You didn't know that? No. Yes.

Starting point is 00:52:44 Vegas, casinos pump oxygen into this. Yes. Wow. That's why you feel so good in there like that. That's why it's like taking it as a box. It's impossible to get to sleep. So you get back to the room. Yeah, even though I'm tired. That's so stimulating. Yes. Oh my god. And I lay in bed. I'm like, and they, so you know, they strategically have no clocks, right? Yep. You know that. I know that. Strategically, there's no clocks. They pump oxygen. They make the exercise certain impossible to find. Yeah. They do all. They make the access to impossible to find. Yeah, they do all kinds of things.

Starting point is 00:53:06 You were trying to find your elevator afterwards? Where the hell is a freaking elevator? But there's a reliat table right here. Oh, it's a... Hey, talking about sleep. So Katrina asked me this, so I'm curious about you guys, because I actually had to think about it for a minute. She goes, because I talk all the time about the two products

Starting point is 00:53:21 that comes in my sleep. Well, three, actually, if you include the Ned Melo, because that's been a big one for me. But I would say chili sleep and then Felix Gray are two the biggest like game changers. She was asking me of the two, the Felix Gray and chili sleep, what has made a bigger impact on my sleep? What would you say you guys?

Starting point is 00:53:41 That's a tough one. So for me, probably the, and I did not know this before until I met my wife, I'm far more affected a lot by bright lights at night. I didn't know this because I grew up that way. So I'd have to say that because the temperature in the room, I think doesn't affect me as much as you polar bears because you guys like it freezing cold. That's where I'm drawn more in terms of like temperature, because it's always something that in the middle of the night,

Starting point is 00:54:12 like just having the fans like, because I have to have movement of air or something to like keep things feeling like it's cool. Otherwise, I'm up and I wake up multiple times during the middle of the night, which totally sucks. So like the chilly sleep, it's the only thing that it gives that consistent temperature where I just I have moments where I just don't wake up in the middle of the night. Otherwise, I always do. Yeah, I told her that. I said the chilly sleep. I mean, I if I'm being honest like even though I have glasses everywhere, I could miss that like there could be like, oh, I didn't even do that last night,

Starting point is 00:54:46 you know, or I, I screwed if you don't have. I am, yeah, chilly sleep, like, since we have started working with him, I have never not slept with that thing. I am gonna 100% back this up because we travel and often, usually if we get two rooms, Doug and I will share a room and you two will share a room. And the reason why it happens that way is because I've shared rooms with both you guys

Starting point is 00:55:09 and I hate it because you guys set the AC to whatever the lowest effort goes. As low as it'll go, always. And I'm literally in the middle of night, like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, goopause. You know what part of it is, too, and I don't know if that's it for him. Like Katrina won't let me let it go that low at my house. So as soon as I'm like traveling. That's exactly what it is. Ooh, it's just like all the way I see.

Starting point is 00:55:31 I literally sighed out of him. I normally sleep in my underwear. I'm like, I'm gonna start bringing pajamas when I show room with the guy. Just wear some like flat pants. Really downside is it like dries out, you know, the stuff in my nose. I think I have trisks in there

Starting point is 00:55:44 and like start whistling. Who have trisks in there like I'm just ristling Who eats trisks by the way? I just like to know what you like to say. What the hell would you eat a trisky for? I don't know, I like trisks. It's flavorless. It used to be the jam until you like to put it in the straw and never done that.

Starting point is 00:55:57 Yeah, cheese or meat or like that. Okay. Yeah, so they're not very good by them, so. No, it's like a fra, it's like a shredded wheat. It is like shredded wheat, but it's like a cracker shredded wheat. Snacks back in the day, just got there. There's still popular aren't they? It's like they just took a hay baler like,

Starting point is 00:56:12 let's make a sundu-snack. Hey, instead of throwing that stuff away, but we could sell it like a tree. It's a scratch. Dry it out. Boom, here we go. Brilliant. Hey, check this out.

Starting point is 00:56:21 We all know that nutrients, vitamins, minerals, and certain compounds can improve our health or recovery. The problem is most of these products that you find in the market don't get to the tissues that they need to help. They're not digested or utilized properly. That's because they have a crappy delivery system,

Starting point is 00:56:38 which means you just have expensive urine. You're wasting it. Well, there's a company called Live On Labs that uses a delivery system called LIPEOSomal Technology that dramatically improves the absorption of key nutrients. And right now, if you go to liveonlabs.com-mp, so livenlabs.com-mp,

Starting point is 00:57:02 you can get LIPEO glutathione for free. So glutathione the master antioxidant, you can get that product glutathione for free, so glutathione on the master antioxidant. You can get that product for free when you bundle it with their B-complex and vitamin C. Only for mind-pump listeners, so go check it out. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Kelly from Virginia. Hey, Kelly, how you doing? How can we help you?

Starting point is 00:57:22 Hey, guys. It's so nice to meet all of you. Just thanks so much for having me. I've been a listener for three years and just like everyone else just wanted to thank you for all the content you put out. It's inspiring to see how you've taken your left to passion for helping people and making a career out of it. I'll just keep your integrity. Thank you. So, I'm just a step-as-see.

Starting point is 00:57:50 I'm a 29 year old mother, working mother with a pretty stressful job, but I've been weightlifting consistently for years now. I eat at a maintenance of around 2200 calories and try to get between 10-case steps a day, depending on the day. Despite that, I always come in on my dexascana, a little above 30% body fat, almost the boss efforts. And my doctor says my LDL cholesterol is slightly elevated. I've run through Maps Aneabolic twice through, jump to a back. And for both programs, really start aching towards the third phase, probably like a lot of your listeners. So with my goal of getting to a better body

Starting point is 00:58:33 ball percentage and mostly just getting into a better place, health wise, and hopes for baby number two in the future, I fear maps performance might be a great switch up. So, phase one has been pretty straightforward. I loved it. I actually had some PRs in that phase. But this week I just started Phase 2 and have been completely gassed. My heart rate has been really high throughout the workouts and just have had some ridiculously long rest times just to catch my breath.

Starting point is 00:59:01 I hate cardio. It stresses me out. But I've always wondered if I should be focusing on really, you know, building my cardio or endurance capacity. My husband always jokes that I'm pretty stubborn about advice, especially about cardio, so coming to you guys. So my question really is, for those coming from a traditional and avolog routine, with my main forum of cardio is walking, you know, every day or between days, between foundational days,

Starting point is 00:59:32 how does someone work to adjust to this kind of programming, and what is generally the benchmark to be to work out stamina? Adam, I know you say, try to run about a mile within eight minutes every once in a while just to see if you can and just wondering if that's something that I should aspire to do as well. Yeah so Benchmarks are can be very individual and quite personal so Adam sent that for himself because that's what he feels he would like to have really I like to tell people like, think about what you'd like to do.

Starting point is 01:00:07 Think about your quality of life. What kind of performance you would like to maintain realistically, because of course, sometimes we can set goals that are unrealistic depending on the context of our life. And that's kind of your benchmark. You know, with maps, performance, you're going to build the stamina through the program.

Starting point is 01:00:27 Now, if it feels like it's too much now, I would reduce the volume or go lighter with the weight so that it feels like something that you can accomplish. Because we write the program out in a particular way that we think is gonna be, is it good kind of benchmark or blueprint? But everybody's individual. So if you were my client and I was watching you

Starting point is 01:00:46 follow the program and I'm watching you and I'm saying, okay, this looks like it's too much. We have to rest a long time between sets to do this. She seems like she's a little over-trained. I would reduce the weight or reduce the intensity and allow your body to adapt and improve there. As far as getting leaner is concerned, that's, I mean, your best bet is gonna be looking

Starting point is 01:01:06 at your diet. Now, you said your maintenance is about 2,200 calories. I would try a slow reverse diet while doing math performance, so you have a higher place to cut from. Cutting from 2,200, for most people's a little low, unless you feel like 2,200 calories is like super filling and you're like, oh my gosh, it's too much food In which case I would say you could probably cut from there, but probably not right?

Starting point is 01:01:29 You're probably like, you know, I could eat more and feel better So I would go slow reverse diet reduce the intensity reduce the weight so that it feels Appropriately challenging and then allow your stamina to build there You don't need to in other words you don't need to add more to what you're doing so that you can get more stamina. The program sounds like it's already challenging your stamina enough. Doesn't sound like you need to do more with that. Yeah, I'm going to add to the weight point that you made. I think one of the more challenging things for people when they're coming out of phase one and going to phase two, especially

Starting point is 01:02:00 in performance, is reducing the weight enough. It's just with the Matrix lunges and there's some movements in there that are just super taxing stamina and cardio. Especially if you're somebody who doesn't do a lot of cardio. Now, are people that love cardio and do a lot, they love that phase because it fits right into their avatar and they're just like, oh, yeah, I love it. It's pushing me that way. People that don't are like, oh my God, they're gassed. A lot of times they're really gassed and struggling to get to their workout and they're just like, oh yeah, I love it. You know, it's pushing me that way. People that don't are like, oh my God, they're gassed.

Starting point is 01:02:25 And a lot of times they're really gassed and struggling to get to the workout because they're still referencing their PR weights or their strength weights that they were doing in phase one. And they want to get as close to that as possible in phase two when the reality is they probably just need to reduce the weight dramatically. And to Salis Point, that's what's, I mean, if it's taxing, you like that, it's going to build stamina. If you keep going through it, you're going to build that endurance and stamina, especially for lifting weights. So you'll get it. My recommendation would just pull back on the weights a little bit.

Starting point is 01:02:56 If you wanted to do the eight mile thing or the eight minute thing, I think there's nothing wrong with that. But you're going to, that's specifically for that. I want to be able to do that just so I could do it. So I could, you know, always talk trash to sound, race them outside and be faster than him. Like that's a personal thing for me. Like that's not like my way of doing that is it like, oh, this is so I can get through the programs with the best stamina cardio because the way to get through the programs with

Starting point is 01:03:18 the best stamina cardio would actually be following the programs. Like that's what's going to give you that's built in there. We've never raised. Terr-something. Yeah, I mean, it's all built in there. I mean, this is one of those programs we actually were intentionally kind of weaving in some aerobic capacity. So, you know, phase three, phase four, you're going to get, you know, even more heavy doses of that. But in terms of setting personal goals of that, sure. But if you're going through this program, that's literally laid out for you. So it should take you naturally through

Starting point is 01:03:52 just a little bit more volume with that and a little more intensity in terms of really pushing you endurance durability wise. Yeah, Kelly, each phase, especially the first week of a new phase, should feel challenging. But it needs to be appropriately challenging. Okay, so challenging is good in discomfort and challenges with gets the body to adapt, but it has to be an amount that is tolerable so that your body can adapt. If you go beyond that,

Starting point is 01:04:27 then your body can't adapt, it's just too much. So, back to what we're saying about the weight. Just to give you an example, if I go through a long phase of training for strength, I'll give you some numbers for myself. Okay. Let's say I go through like a six week period of trying to get my barbell squad up.

Starting point is 01:04:46 And I could get my barbell squad. I mean, the last time I did this, I got it up to close to 500 pounds for a single, 450 for a triple, and it's a lot of weight. Now, when I would switch out of that and go, I'm gonna try sets of 15. I'm gonna try to go 15 reps. I'd go from 450 to 315 or less.

Starting point is 01:05:06 Okay, so that's more than a hundred pounds off the bar. So you can't use your weight from phase one and be like, oh, I'm gonna reduce it by 25%. That should be enough. You're probably gonna have to cut it in half or more and feel yourself challenged, but appropriately challenged that your body has room to adapt. And that's the mistake I think a lot of people make.

Starting point is 01:05:27 So if you feel like, if you feel like, oh my God, I'm so gassed, I can barely get this through this workout. This feels like it's too much. Go way lighter. Go way lighter. Go through the workout. Feel appropriately challenged and your body will adapt and you'll build that stamina. Really, that's really how it was designed.

Starting point is 01:05:45 No, that's super helpful. I just need to reduce my ego. It's challenging, definitely going from phase one. And I hit a few PRs and a few of my lefts and going into phase two such a different mindset. Totally. I'm going into phase two such a different mindset. So having a gauge to where my capacity should be, and should I be gasped? What is the appropriate amount of challenge?

Starting point is 01:06:18 Is something that I'm still gauging? And Justin, this is how you typically train just hands off to you. It's really difficult going from just the main lifts and prioritizing that over the past few years. So appreciate that. When we're coaching somebody or I'm coaching somebody to phase two of math performance, what I actually tell them to think about more than any is form and technique. So that's the priority of mass performance. What I actually tell them to think about more than any, is form and technique.

Starting point is 01:06:46 Yeah. So that's the priority of that phase. And that's why I say it's a tough transition from phase one because phase one people are thinking, strength, they want to get stronger. You reference, you built, you hit PRs, which is great. That's such to happen in that phase. But then it's really hard to also go from,

Starting point is 01:07:01 oh, I care about how strong I am to like, okay, that doesn't matter at all anymore. Now it's all about how well do I move this weight and how good is my technique and form. And so I would go, whatever number you're thinking in your head for lightening the load up from Sal's point, I would go even lighter and I would slow down the repetitions and pause in places and really assess your form and technique until you go like, oh, that's perfect. Okay, now I can add a little bit of weight

Starting point is 01:07:29 because that is the adaptation we're seeking in that phase more than anything else is form and technique. Yeah, even though it looks similar, like treat them as completely different exercises, like this is a whole new host of exercises that you're just working on learning and teaching the body and getting good and proficient at. So that way too, you know,

Starting point is 01:07:49 it's not, you can take some of the ego out of it a bit is like this is a completely new animal I'm facing. Yeah, Kelly, there's a lot of growth that happens in each phase and some of it is not physical. Some of it is building your mental and emotional and psychological growth with exercise. So you're learning to appreciate it for different things.

Starting point is 01:08:09 And phase two, phase three, whatever, they're all different. So you go into it with a different mentality, a different understanding. And over time, what this does is it allows you to develop a relationship with exercise where it's lifelong and you can manipulate it and change it and always improve the quality of your life regardless of the context of your life. So the challenge you're going through is super common. We hear this all the time.

Starting point is 01:08:33 So it's great that you called in and now you get to try it out and experience something totally different. Yeah, no, thank you. I just really appreciate it. And it's just good to hear that I don't have to do any extra cardio. I don't want to do it. I just really appreciate it. And it's just good to hear that I don't have to do any extra cardio. That's always a madness.

Starting point is 01:08:49 Just try to run, try to run. I'm like, it stresses me out. I have a stressful job. I don't want to do this long-term. It's not going to be sustainable. So it's just good to confirm that, too. So I'm going to send this stuff to the table. Well, thank you for calling in, Kelly.

Starting point is 01:09:03 I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thank you for calling in Kelly. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Could you imagine if the three of us went outside and raced the increase that would occur or the people who saw a bunch of middle-aged men outside? What are they doing out there? The terrible idea. Let's see who's the fastest.

Starting point is 01:09:24 I would have it. I come out faster than I pull something. Sal's pulling behind Justin's like cruising in the, Justin wins. That's what I think I said this to someone the other day when they asked what would happen. I said, you know, probably right now where everyone's condition is, I said, Justin would be like the one who eventually won.

Starting point is 01:09:42 Sal and I would end up pulling something along the way. Yeah, either that or Justin would just like the one who eventually won sound I would end up pulling something along the way, you know Yeah, either that or Justin would just did just run through me Bro, he's that way of sleep on me dude I'm the most competitive motherfucker here bro. You got kick power. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna mess with that kick power Which hey, which also still puts you at high risk of pulling something Of course hey, but if you pull horse yeah, what if he pulled a glue You do that sound like glue Bro, you do that sound. Like, glue is disconnected.

Starting point is 01:10:06 You hear that sound miles away. What was that sound? Oh my God. You know, underclass. I'm glad we actually took this question because it's a really common thing. I don't remember the last time that we addressed this with map performance.

Starting point is 01:10:19 And I remember vividly going through it myself and doing the things like the lunge matrix and the reverse lunge to press with the landmine and And these movements that I just are not I don't normally train them and so I was so much weaker in it And of course, I'm battling my ego who wants to like oh, I don't want to put my weight on but then I go like that's not the purpose of this phase It's to really work on the technique And so really having to take a weight that was dramatically less than what I would do. Like, I know you gave your 453, 15, I would disagree and go all the way down to 135, dude. I mean, it turned into something like that.

Starting point is 01:10:55 It's like, I could do way more weight than what I, but what I ended up doing was, okay, get rid of the ego. It's not about the weight that I'm putting on the spar. It's like, can I perfect this movement? And so that's the focus as you're going through that phase. Yeah, and it really does allow you to really value strength training in particular for all of these different values, because it's a totally different mindset.

Starting point is 01:11:19 If you've ever trained with a power lifter in a bodybuilding workout or a bodybuilder in a powerlifting workout with a power lifter in a body building workout or a body builder in a powerlifting workout or a power lifter in an Olympic style workout. What you notice is their mindset is totally off when they're doing the exercises because it's not just a different protocol. It's totally different. It's totally different. So, going through different phases at the very least is going to teach you how to train

Starting point is 01:11:44 your body appropriately in different ways. And that is so valuable when you're looking at long-term success. It's so valuable. Our next caller is Jack from Missouri. Jack, what's happening, man? How can we help you? You doing it? Good.

Starting point is 01:11:56 Good. What's going on? All right. So, um, quick before something that you guys never even calls. I'm a huge fan. I've been a listener for about five years so and this is I was on about a year ago today, so So my second time calling in so Hopefully more in the future Quick background a 21 year old

Starting point is 01:12:24 college Senior right now at Mizzou. I've been lifting for about six and a half seven years. First half of that was high school and was mainly from and performance based football. and the left free have been more a body builder type split with about switching between five and six day splits throughout the week. Pretty avid macro tracker. I'll track the drains, I'll save the calories stuff like that. My question kind of revolves on nutrient and kind of the food. While it makes up the diet. So I started out, I left high school at about 290 pounds and then I went in, overdue cut and lost and the lowest I got was about

Starting point is 01:13:29 174. About 18 months ago started bolting to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that.

Starting point is 01:14:00 I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that., but not tight for lack of a better term. I know there's exercise, I know you can the TVA, progressive overload with cable crunch and stuff like that. But I was wondering if meal timing could have an effect on it. I don't normally get hungry throughout the day or at least super-onger throughout the day. So most of my eating is at night and eating that I'm at quite a bit of food. It's a lot of food to eat at night. I'm eating whole foods with no added sugar as of about eight months ago. So the food

Starting point is 01:14:56 that I will eat at night, 2,000 calorie meal, 1,500, 2,000 calorie meal meal will be potatoes, rice, normally some form of we need and avocado or eggs. And I was wondering if that could lead to bloating or kind of a stretching at the mid-section that would just allow it to become tight once the weight comes off or allow it to stretch and give off that sort of loose appearance that I'm talking about. Okay, Jack. So, did you go for, did you go for, did I hear that right? 290 down to 175?

Starting point is 01:15:38 Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, so that's where the loose skin is coming from. Yeah, you're, this is the definition of, you know, don't take this wrong way of looking at things too closely and paying too much attention to them that don't make a big difference. So, okay, meal time, let's talk about that for a second.

Starting point is 01:15:58 How can meal timing have an effect on things like body fat, percentage and stuff like that? Well, one, if it's adversely affecting your hormones, there could be an effect there, although that's not super common, but it can happen. Two, it can change your eating behaviors. This is usually what how meal timing can cause issues for people, or three, it affects your sleep negatively, or all of the above. So, meal timing, I would really pay attention to how it makes you feel. That's where meal timing comes into play. Has it make me feel?

Starting point is 01:16:30 Do I feel better for you at this time? That time does affect my sleep. That's it. Other than that, really it's about your calories, your macros, and then how the foods that you're eating affects your behaviors, does it make you overeat, under eat, etc. Now as far as the looseness is concerned, you may have loose skin that comes from losing so much body fat initially. Muscle looseness is just strengthening and tightening muscle. So when you say loose, I'm assuming you're referring to the looseness of the skin, because muscles don't appear loose typically.

Starting point is 01:17:04 That's not how it works. So it's probably loose skin and there's really not a whole lot you can do about loose skin aside from surgery. So really there's not much you could do other than kind of what you're doing already. And you already nailed some of the things that I would probably recommend, which is progressive overloading the core and the vacuums and all those things are going to help That right that's gonna help the midsection look tighter because you're gonna fill it out with more muscle But it to just to a point. I mean anybody who goes from two hundred ninety pounds down to one

Starting point is 01:17:38 I mean you're talking about losing a hundred pounds And sounds like over a pretty short period of time sounds, and sounds like over a pretty short period of time, you're gonna have some of that. Now over time, you may see the skin kinda tighten up a little bit, but eventually if that's something that really, really bothers you, that would be a situation where somebody might actually get surgery and actually tighten up the skin.

Starting point is 01:17:57 Have you gone through any like food allergy tests or looked at that in terms of like what might potentially make you blood irritated. I do blood work pretty regularly. That's just because I'm super interested and love it. It was actually because you guys have about a year and a half go recommended, given if you're feeling good to do it. I'm glad I did, but I haven't done a few food allergy tests yet, but that's another aspect of the question is beginning of this past summer. I did the carnivore diet just to try it because it sounded fun and I like to eat and eating steak for three meals sounded pretty cool. So yeah, and I did that for about six weeks. How to go.

Starting point is 01:18:41 And the granite I know it's waterway dropping and it's bloating dropping because the car's holding on anymore water. There's none there anymore. But the looseness, I know a loose skin is because I mean, I have some, but it's not, I mean, it's not a lot. I've built up more since I was at the bottom, at 175. But during that time it did, the loosens kind of dissipate. So I was thinking it could be food intolerance, but I've also, that was a bare bone of one of my nation diet, and then I slowly reintroduced. And it seems at this point it's just quantity of food, I guess.

Starting point is 01:19:24 Yeah, look rather than specific food. Jack, there's different types of bacteria and digestive processes that happen for fats, carbohydrates, and proteins. And then we can throw fiber in there as well. And when your body breaks down, carbohydrates and fiber in particular, you are going to produce more gases. You are going to have different processes that feel like you're feeling a little bit more in your gut. So yeah, eating just protein in fact will make things feel flatter. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing. Now, if it's excessive bloating, I would work with a functional medicine practitioner who could test you for like, you know, dysbiosis

Starting point is 01:20:10 or a parasite or something like that. But if they test you and everything's healthy, yeah, eating fiber is going to cause more, quote, unquote, bloat in the gut than just eating proteins and fats because the process of breaking those down does create more gases in the gut. It's a normal process. It's not abnormal. Abnormal bloating causes discomfort, pain, can cause digestive issues. It's a different thing.

Starting point is 01:20:40 Working with a functional medicine practitioner will do that. Now there's one more thing I like to comment on. I mean you're 21 years old, you're, you're, you're a young man, you're, you look, you appear to be pretty healthy. I think you might be a little overly detailed and obsessed with some of this stuff. Now that's okay if it's something you really want to, if you really enjoy, if you want to make this your field and it's really fun, but if you find that you are, it's adding stress to your life, decreasing the quality of your life,

Starting point is 01:21:12 or taking you away from things that can improve the quality or add to quality of your life, then you may want to step back a little bit and fast from paying attention. So you can fast from a lot of things. You can fast from electronics, you can fast from food, you can fast from a lot of things. You can fast from electronics. You can fast from food. You can fast from pornography. You can fast. You can also fast from paying attention to everything and counting everything all the time.

Starting point is 01:21:32 So now here's a deal. I'm gonna ask you a question. Okay. The people closest to you, your friends and family, the people that you trust. Okay, not people that you don't trust, but people who have your best intentions of mine. If I were to approach them and say, hey, you know Jack, can they say, yeah, and I say, do you think you overly obsesses about, like diet and exercise? What would they say? No, because I still make,

Starting point is 01:21:59 they know I am 100% obsessed and I am 100, but it's because I'm in for all, and I'm super interested and I enjoy the hell out of it. So it's not like I'll ruin my day if I go out and have like, I'm gonna get hot shows with my buddies at dinner. Jack, I'm gonna give you a little advice here. And look, I'm not saying that you're, I look,

Starting point is 01:22:21 I a 100% resonate with you, okay? Cause you sound like me right now. I love supplements. I have a lot of fun with supplements. It's a great time. I love learning about them. I also know I have a bit of a dysfunctional relationship with them. And I could be in denial about that.

Starting point is 01:22:36 So I think you're, just from your question and how you're posing it, I would say step back a little bit from looking too close at the details. And just for a week and see how you feel. And if it brings you a lot of stress to step back, you know there's an issue. If you find a lot of joy from stepping back, then you know there's an issue as well. So any extreme in either direction.

Starting point is 01:22:58 But other than that, I think working with a functional medicine practitioner might be a good idea to identify any food intolerances. But other, I mean, other than that, you're the kind of person I train Working with a functional medicine practitioner might be a good idea to identify any food intolerances But other I mean other than that I you're the kind of person I train that I would tell to do less With some of the stuff just based off of what you're what you're telling me you know a lot about what you're doing You've added things up. You've lost a lot of weight you've reversed. I did you're counting the calories of the drinks when you go out with your friends You said you're the person I would be like, hey, let's step back for a little bit. Let's just enjoy the process a little bit. And maybe not nerd out quite as much and see what happens. Sorry if I'm overstepping, by the way.

Starting point is 01:23:32 All right. No, you look great. No, no, no, you're, you're, you're all good. No, I'm just, it's, I'll take a step back. If you think that's best, I'll take a step back. It's not something that takes my mind up 24, seven. And I got a pretty good handle on it. But, okay, if you think that's best, I'll take a step back. It's not something that takes my mind up 24-7, and I've got a pretty good handle on it, but if you think that I should, then sure. Yeah. Based off the nude photos that you were sending, Sal, you look really good, bros. I don't know if you're fine.

Starting point is 01:23:55 I think you're doing fine. This is where a lot better. Yeah, it's a good idea. I got another question for you. With the voice like yours, I bet if you get on the phone with a girl before anything, automatic. I love to hear you sing the VGs. Yeah, I bet she dates you right away.

Starting point is 01:24:10 Just with that, you know, I can, I can email Jerry and we can set up a little call after everyone goes through. You're a good sport. They listen, Jack, I look, I put you in the hot, hot sea a little bit. I like to give you a free program. I appreciate you being a good sport. Any, any maps programs you're interested in? Um, I've been through a aesthetic,

Starting point is 01:24:30 pd, and split. So whichever one you guys think, I'll leave it up to you guys. I've dug them all. Symmetry and metabolic because anabolic you'd have them scale back a bit. Oh yeah, no, I like Symmetry. I'm gonna give you Symmetry Jack. Symmetry sweet, awesome. Thank you guys a bit. Oh yeah, no, I like symmetry. I'm gonna give you symmetry, Jack.

Starting point is 01:24:46 Symmetry suite awesome. Thank you, guys. It's very much. You got a brother, appreciate you. I swear, I promise you at this point, I'm wearing Viori Red Juice is in my cabinet, mass times where my drawer, yeah. I think you guys could shut down marketing and supply

Starting point is 01:25:02 at pretty much everywhere else and it's still keeping you guys a close. True pump head. I like you, Jack. Thank you, Jack. Thanks, man. Thanks for calling in brother. Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem.

Starting point is 01:25:10 Thank you all very much. Take care. You got it, man. You ever, you ever get a client and then they talk to you and you're like, oh, man, it sounds like me. Well, you know what it is in the soul tree voice. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:25:22 It was hard to tell is if it's, if it's something that's necessarily unhealthy or he's just, he's 21. voice. Yeah, I know. Yeah, what's hard to tell is if it's something that's necessarily unhealthy or he's just 21, you remember that. I know. And at that age, it does sound like he still goes out, it has a balanced life, but I mean, he's just geeked out on it, I remember that. I remember starting things to piece things together

Starting point is 01:25:40 and be like, and then you just, you're questioning everything. It's like you've done all kinds of different diets, you've been able to control your weight like that. So, that's why I'm telling them, like take a step back for a second, you know? I mean, you tried carnivore, he's kind of the calories when he goes out, just take a little step back just for a bit

Starting point is 01:25:57 and then see, you know, trust the process. Yeah, and see what happens, you know, in terms of your mental space around it all because. No, I thought that was great advice. I think this would be a great time for him. I mean, this is what the Intuit, we probably should have given the Intuit of Eating Guide.

Starting point is 01:26:07 You know, it ducks Nick that in there, throw me in two to do this. Because that, I mean, that's probably what, if he was a client of mine, I'd say, hey, what we're gonna do just for this program, I'm gonna have you in two to the eat while we train this program. So I'd say, hey, let's follow symmetry,

Starting point is 01:26:20 while we're following symmetry, as far as diet's concerned, let's try Intuit of Eating. And I would just do that as an exercise for him to see and then get feedback of how he's handling it, is it keeping his weight in a healthy place, and that would tell me a lot about his relationship with nutrition and exercise.

Starting point is 01:26:36 Yeah, and the other thing to you all wanna say, I wanna mention is that when I have a client like this, what I just said to him, I would never say first session. This is just a question, you know, we're would never say first session. This is just a question on, you know, we're doing here on the podcast. This is a long conversation. I would never hit someone that with that much that quickly, because it's, it can sometimes not be very effective. That's why I wanted to make sure I ended that well with him. So, you know, someone's listening to like, man, that was a little straight up, little hard. Well, we

Starting point is 01:27:04 only have, you know, five minutes. Well, we only have five minutes. Well, the truth is too, you're taking your best shot at a guess, let's be honest. 100%. You know what I'm saying? Because 100% you could be wrong. Totally. I could totally be wrong.

Starting point is 01:27:13 Yeah, you would never do that in a first session for that exact reason. Yeah. So, I get it. Yeah. Our next caller is Remi from California. Remi, what's happening, man? How can we help you?

Starting point is 01:27:23 Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for your time for having me on. The obligatory thanks. One, as a dad, I have two adolescent sons who just don't want to fucking talk to me anymore. But yeah, we all listen to mind pumps together. So you guys have given me a way to just share this with my sons, right? So just shout out to just share this with my sons.

Starting point is 01:27:45 So just shout out to my kids, Eric and Gabe, they're gonna be pumped that I'm here. That's awesome. That's cool, that's great. So context, 34 years old, six foot three. I fluctuate between 195 and 200 pounds, about seven, eight percent body fat. All my labs are within like normal limits.

Starting point is 01:28:05 I'm not on any medications. I have a master's degree in exercise physiology. I'm currently a PhD student in psychology. And my athletic background is an Olympic weightlifting. You leave her a job? Yeah, I was gonna say, I hope you don't have a question for us. I'm actually down the street from you guys

Starting point is 01:28:22 at Stanford at school medicine. No shit, deal. Alright. Alright. So shout out come to our Viori, it's way better than yours. Yes, no you guys do have better. Why don't you and your boys come down and watch a live show. That'd be pretty cool since you guys listen to it. I was waiting for the question first.

Starting point is 01:28:37 Yeah, we'll get to it. Oh, we'll get to it. Well, if you're an asshole, I'm not doing it bad. At the end of this, you're like, now we're talking about that guy. Yeah. Yeah, dude. So the question, I spent 15 years as a tactical athlete. I was a special forces combat medic in the army. I have always done an excelled at extremely high volume, high frequency, and high intensity.

Starting point is 01:29:01 About a year ago, after injury sustained in Afghanistan, I received my second purple heart and I retired. That's why I wear these glasses. I have a traumatic brain injury, so I'm just like really photosensitive. I'm not just like a Kyle. I know what I'm fucking working with, right? You're like, who is this guy? I am so glad you shared that. I'm so glad you shared that. I'm so glad you shared that. Yeah, I was about to say I wear my sunglasses. Now that I'm just like a regular dude,

Starting point is 01:29:33 I literally have to spend four to six hours in the gym, five to six days a week just to not get out of shape. When I first retired, I just did like normal, I listened to my pump, right? Like three day a week full body split. I got up to like 19% body fat. It's just like, I was just, I was sucking dick for gas money, man. It was not good. So I heard you guys a dropping volume, you know, see what happens. But here's where I would argue that I come from the demographic as a green

Starting point is 01:30:04 beret that were the genetic freaks, right? And I listened from the demographic as a green beret that were the genetic freaks, right? And I've listened to you guys for a long time and the conversation often ends there on the show. Like, well, unless you're a genetic freak, I'm like, bro, like, what about me? How do I maintain aesthetics performance and like, have a life? So for example, right now I'm lifting four days a week basically day on day off split. I'm running small off on four lifts at the same time and doing Olympic

Starting point is 01:30:33 waylifting programming and three a those days is cardio and I'm thriving man like everything's on point calories are currently 3500 that was was a lot. Sorry, which you got. Yeah, so two things, right? I mean, first off, I appreciate your service and you're a badass. And yes, you are a freak in the sense that you're on one end of the spectrum. But I'm going to say this about people like you, okay? You're definitely higher on the athletic side. You're not pro athlete, genetic freak, but what makes you a genetic freak, that's different than other people, and I love your input on this mindset for sure.

Starting point is 01:31:12 Is this psychology and mindset? Yes. I've trained green braze, I've trained, no, people who were green braze, people who were Navy SEALs, and I always had lots of questions for them. And what they used to tell me, what separated them from their peers wasn't the physical part,

Starting point is 01:31:25 it was the mental part. And so I'm going to assume that a lot of the benefit you get from challenging your body is probably mental. You probably really enjoy the challenge, you probably condition yourself to enjoy the challenge. And that's also another challenge as you get older, as you have kids to take care of, a family to take care of, a family, to take care of a PhD. So this is the balance conversations we have with the average person applies to you as well,

Starting point is 01:31:53 except it's on a different scale. That's right. So balance for someone else is gonna be two days a week, 45 minutes, whatever. Balance for you is gonna be totally different, but it's the same conversation. You're gonna have to find that sweet spot of, I'm putting time in the gym, this is what makes me feel mentally healthy, this is what gives me, you know, improvement quality

Starting point is 01:32:16 alive, but still allows me to do things that are important to me now, like be with my kids, you know, focus on my education or do my job and that kind of stuff. And that's gonna be it, that's hard for someone like you because your capacity or the capacity that you've had in the past and what you have now doesn't compare to the average person. It's really hard and I know you're just kind of what you're saying, right?

Starting point is 01:32:38 It's hard for you to look at the average person and be like, yeah, that doesn't apply to me, my friend. I know you say you need to go to bed at nine o'clock at night and you work, yeah, that doesn't apply to me, my friend. I know you say you need to go to bed and at night and you work real hard, nine to five working at a desk, but that doesn't apply to me. I'm gonna, for me, that would be so boring and so torturous and my body wouldn't even respond, right?

Starting point is 01:32:58 So this is a very different conversation. I've trained maybe two people in my entire life that I would say are in a similar category to you. That's how rare it is, and this is over two decades. So this is gonna be a tough one for you, man. You're gonna have to constantly sit there and look at things and say, okay, what am I valuing in my life?

Starting point is 01:33:19 What's most important? And balance these things out, and you're gonna have to give and take a few things. So this may mean, okay, I value time with my, for example, I value time with my kids. I place that as a higher priority over, you know, my physical fitness. So I'm going to have to take away from my workout time to give over here, but you can't do everything. You can't do everything all the time.

Starting point is 01:33:43 I'm sure you're probably running into that issue right now. So I can't answer this for you, dude. Well, I have a question, Remi, I have a question. Because you mentioned, you know, when you became a quote unquote regular dude and then you kind of did like the scale back and then your body fat percentage, shut up. Up into this point, have you pretty much managed

Starting point is 01:34:02 your physical fitness through exercise versus diet? Or have you ever really tried to count macros and weigh food and do shit like that? Like how do you how do you how do you maintain that lean body fat? Yeah, good question. Um, with my background in Olympic weightlifting with my size, I've always weighed and measured food because I'm competing against guys that are like Sal's height with my body weight, right? So I've always had to stay really lean to even stay competitive and weightlifting. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that was just and I was just

Starting point is 01:34:35 Wondering if that's how you were getting lean all the time. So if you've actually met you measure away It sounds right. I mean you're The same the same advice that we give to average people as far as like learning to find balance and scaling back. It's still true to you, just your scaling back is different than scaling back that we advise to normal people. It's just learning to find that.

Starting point is 01:34:56 And of course, and you know this, because you've weighed and measured food, is like, okay, pulling back a little bit, right now you're running like basically two programs at once. You're running like an Olympic lifting program and then you're building a strength training program together in addition to doing some cardio. It sounded like, I might suggest, let's carve one of those things or scale back on one of those things.

Starting point is 01:35:19 If you notice body fat percentage going up, well then I'd say, okay, let's adjust nutrition a little bit. Or I would say, listen, your blood markers are fine, you fucking love doing this, if you're happy, let's rock it till the wheels fall off too. So I mean, if you were a client of mine, there'd be a lot of this conversation going on, listen, I'm not getting, you did your blood work, you're not getting any signal, you're not telling me you feel terrible or anything like that, like you feel great, you know, and why not? You still feel good, you love doing this.

Starting point is 01:35:49 I might allow you to do that, unless you were giving me signs that like, hey, this is hurting my relationship with my family or hey, this is, I have these blood markers are showing me X, Y and Z, or hey, I'm getting terrible sleep. Okay, maybe we need a dress, but otherwise, you feel young, strong, you feel good, you look good, you're everything's looking fine. There's nothing wrong with

Starting point is 01:36:09 you potentially actually still training this way, but at some point in your life, whether that is now or in 10 years from now, you know, something will start to give and I don't know where that will be, whether it be relationship, body, you know, your intensity that you can come to the gym at, like, I'm not sure where that is. But, you know, I just keep a close eye on it. And then the advice still remains the same. It's just your level of scaling back is way different than the average person because of your mental fortitude that you have built over decades now. You have the ability to train at a much higher level than the average person.

Starting point is 01:36:47 And there's no... And I think you guys hit the nail on the head that it's like, I'm not disillusioned. I don't have pro-affleability. I think it's my capacity, like operators, like we can handle so much more abuse, you know? Totally. Oh, 100%. Totally. And you don't have any like obvious joint pain or any kind of issues from this type of

Starting point is 01:37:07 intensity that you're applying to or your workouts and everything. Is that something you're just constantly keeping an inventory of at least? Yeah, Justin, thanks, Matt. I really look forward to your input as like the performance guy too, dude. So I just still like let listeners know too, you can't afford to go as hard as I do. And as we do as operators, right? Well, I guess not many more, whatever. If you don't like have the same capacity to recover, so everything that I say every

Starting point is 01:37:37 week, I'm also in sports massage, I like own compression boots at home hot cold therapy. And like my cardio is low impact assault by swim, do sled work because that's like all concentric. So I recover from it. Like I don't run. So yeah, I keep inventory of like, I keep inventory of how my body, my body feels. And I've just found for me personally like an object emotions, days in motion, like if I don't work out for a few days or like de-load weeks, bro, everything hurts. Yeah. Bro, hey, rock it to the wheels, fall off, bro. I'm saying so. You know, Remi, something that my dad did that I, as when I was a kid, I didn't realize

Starting point is 01:38:20 the value, but now I see the value. So my dad worked seven days a week for most of my life. Okay, so he came to this country poor, uneducated, but he had a lot of skill with stonework, and so that's what he did, and in order to support a family with four kids in San Jose, the Bay Area, he worked seven days a week. So we didn't do a lot of stuff together like vacations

Starting point is 01:38:46 and trips, but we had dinner every night together. Every single night, my dad, and it was a big deal. Like if you didn't show up to dinner, it was a big deal, or if you were late to dinner. So every single night, we had dinner together. And those, you know, one hour periods, or one and a half, or two hour periods that we had every single night was so valuable because it was every single day. So the point I'm making with that is because you brought up the fact that you're a father. I think sometimes we think, oh man, I don't have time to take my kids to do a week backpacking trip or to do it's that like every day, like I take them to school and we have lunch together or every day we have dinner together. Or I make sure before they go to bed for 30 minutes,

Starting point is 01:39:26 we sit down and we talk or whatever. And it doesn't sound like a lot of time, but if you do the math and you add that up over the course of the next five, 10, 15 years, that's a lot of quality time. And so that's another thing that you can also consider. If part of what you're challenged with is taking time away from your boys.

Starting point is 01:39:45 And I know that and look, you mentioned their adolescence, I don't want to talk to you. I have teenage kids too. I know what that means. I force my kids. So we're going to have dinner every night and they sit there and they're quiet. I don't give a shit. Turn off your electronics. And about 20 minutes into it, conversations start to kind of happen a little bit, right?

Starting point is 01:40:01 Or when we're doing the dishes, take out your headphones, we're doing the dishes, and we'll play music for the whole house, but you can't put your headphones. And I say, you know, we have conversations, and sometimes everybody's quiet, but a lot of times, we have a great time, we have good conversation. So that's just something my dad did, that I didn't see the value in when I was a kid, but now I realize like, man, that was worth more

Starting point is 01:40:20 than the two vacations a year type of deal. So just a little feedback with that. No bro, that's good. I appreciate that. I definitely like with the kids. I love you. Why would you take my love? I'm like, okay.

Starting point is 01:40:35 I'm like, blood of my bud. I love you so much. I'm proud of you. And they're like, yeah, cool that. Cool. Hey, Remi, listen, definitely you're in the Bay Area. We're going to have, I want you to reach out to, to the person you emailed you on here. Jerry, Jerry, and let's get you, let's see, you and your boys in here watching a show live. How's that sound? Give you guys a good time.

Starting point is 01:40:56 Well, I would be, I would be so pumped. They would, they would be pumped. I'd probably like be left in the corner. So last question, would it be, I hope this is a yes. Would it be appropriate? The only time I've seen like genetic freak, like pushing it is MapsPED. Before I like pump out 200 bucks for that, would that be appropriate for me? Like to just follow that and see what happens.

Starting point is 01:41:18 Well, you're a smart guy. I think you'll stop if you notice that it ain't working for you. So I'm gonna give that to you. I'll give you Maps map speedy, but I'm gonna tell you this much right now It's too much it's too much for most people, okay, but you got to you got to make sure you just you scale back or stop If you start to notice like this is burning me out you are though a guy that I would be good experience I've always done strictly like performance and like can I rock up a mountain, but I'm like, hey man,

Starting point is 01:41:47 I'd be cool to see like, how good can I look? Like, all right. Yeah, just keep applying that same recovery though. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and don't try and combine it with all the other shit you're doing because it's enough by itself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:41:59 I would love to see you in everything else. I'd love to see you run it for a while, man. We'll send that to you. Yep. Thank you guys so much for your time. I appreciate you. You got it, brother. Thank you very much. Dude,. We'll send that to you. Yep. Thank you guys so much for your time. I appreciate you. You got it brother. Thank you very much.

Starting point is 01:42:07 Dude, how funny is that? Maybe my favorite color. Oh, so funny. Hey, how funny. Listen, what a lesson for dads out there or parents in general. Your kids at a certain age, they're going to not think you're cool, even if you're the baddest mother fucker on the ground. I know.

Starting point is 01:42:20 Like, I'm talking to them. I'm like, you're what? You did what? I didn't even know you can get two purple hearts. You can get more than one. Yeah, I can only get one. Oh, you should. You should be serving in the end.

Starting point is 01:42:29 But when his kids are older, they're like, my dad was a bad man. But when you're that age, you think you're going to be a big tepid deal. But I mean, what a great question because it's so individual. It's so, and also it changes. Here's another thing. What your capacity was at one point

Starting point is 01:42:45 Maybe completely different at another point in your life because of life circumstances Well, that's why my advice was rocket to the wheels fall off I mean he's he's getting his blood work done. He's doing all the recovery stuff He feels good. He loves it. He feels good. He's sleeping. I mean fucking do it, bro Like that you're the you're the one percent that I would still push to encourage it and then then, hey, but here's the reality though, at one point. Of course. You know, aging is undefeated. You know, say like eventually that happens.

Starting point is 01:43:13 Eventually life has to slow down. And then he will be faced with a new challenge in his life, which is my whole life I've identified as this fucking machine. And for the first time, I feel like, I'm, life is catching up to me, age is catching up to me. Now how do I balance that? I should have recommended Arthur Brooks book

Starting point is 01:43:34 from Strength to Strength, because that's exactly what he talks about. Because how do you transition? And what he says in the book is you go from doing to teaching. And that's how you keep that fire invigorated within your body. Our next caller is Brian from Ohio. Brian, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how are you? Appreciate the education guys. You got it. Thank you. So

Starting point is 01:43:57 I've been doing a full body over six days a week and I was wondering if I were to go to the three days a week full body and cut the volume down and the days down a week. What are you guys, what are your thoughts if I've been training 25 years, would I have to worry about maybe losing some muscle or anything like that? Okay, so one of two things will happen, either one, you'll maintain because you've been training for so long, the amount of volume required to maintain what you have is a lot lower than the kind of volume that it would be needed to continue progressing, for example. And there's actually quite a big range there, especially the longer you've been training.

Starting point is 01:44:37 So either one, you'll see nothing really happen, or two, which is what I think will probably happen is you're just going to get stronger, either from the novelty or because you may actually be using a little bit more volume than is required, which is what people tend to do naturally. So my guess is, like I said, worst case scenario, nothing happens, you can go back to training more if you love it, not a big deal.

Starting point is 01:45:01 I think you'll probably get stronger, that's what I think. I think you'll build a little bit more and get stronger. I like this question, Brian, because this is um, and I haven't shared this on the podcast yet. We're actually waiting for, we have a program that's coming out and we're going to release and Doug normally doesn't let me talk about stuff like this until the program's out. But something I've been testing on myself for the last month or so is these really short workouts. I'm only working out about 15, 20 minutes, six days a week. And so one of my fears was similar to yours, which is, man, if I dramatically reduce the volume,

Starting point is 01:45:33 am I gonna just shrink? And the opposite is happening to me right now. So I'm like tripping out on how much muscle mass I'm able to maintain off of that. And I attribute a lot of that to two things. One, to Salis Point, I probably tend to always overdo the volume more than I need to. And so my body's always trying to prioritize

Starting point is 01:45:55 recovery versus adaptation. And so reducing that. And then also the years and years of experience of building muscle over time, my body's built so much muscle over the decades of training that it has that muscle memory that it takes very little to stimulate it to keep it. One of the things I'm loving that I feel is, because one of the things I've noticed being 40 now is I'm constantly always managing joint pain or tightness.

Starting point is 01:46:21 I feel the best right now that I've ever felt. I'm not getting very sore from the training. I leave the workouts with lots of energy. My joints don't hurt. I don't feel overly tight or sore. And so I'm actually kind of blown away by what I'm feeling right now and the way my body is shaping up. So I actually think you're going to be just fine,

Starting point is 01:46:40 especially since you have so many years of experience of lifting. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, give it a try, see what happens, give it a good. I predict you'll see strength increases within the first three to four weeks. So you'll know pretty quickly if it's something that's working for you. Sure. Do you guys do a much full body three days a week yourselves?

Starting point is 01:47:00 You know, that's typically where I end up. And I go, I'll try some splits I'll do full body and full body generally is where I end up because I feel best doing it that way and every time I move away from it I always tend to move back to it. Now that doesn't mean it's best for everybody but it does tend to work I would say for about 80% of people, it tends to be the better way to train. Honestly, for me, it just helps to prevent me

Starting point is 01:47:31 from over-training, over-doing it for certain body part groups. I just have a tendency in that direction. So everybody's different, but it's definitely one of those that works a lot better for me. Brian, do you have maps in a ball? I do not. All right, you got it now.

Starting point is 01:47:46 We'll send that over to you. Thanks guys, appreciate that. You got it, man. I appreciate you calling in. Thank you very much. Did you guys appreciate you guys? You got it. You know, Adam, I'm going to be messing around a little bit

Starting point is 01:47:58 with something along the lines of what you're doing. Because I'm watching the progress that you're experiencing. And it's actually pretty remarkable. And I know the signs behind it, and I know I've seen other clients do it. And I'm also a little forced at the moment because I'm having to take my daughter's school in the morning again, which means I'm not gonna have a lot of time

Starting point is 01:48:17 on some weeks. And so I'm kind of messing around with something along the lines of my year round. And I tell you what, dude. I tell you what dude tell you what Justin yeah I mean I I'm uh do it I'm loving it right now so uh the only thing that I'm uh that I feel challenged about that I need to kind of go back to the drawing board is uh week I'm actually getting pretty strong pretty quick which is cool too I know I'm watching you bro yeah I'm. I'm watching that come up pretty fast, which is nice. It's actually normally I kind of have this when I get my kick going, where I'm really consistent

Starting point is 01:48:54 again, and I'm eating good, but I'm not leaning out as fast. I'm getting really strong, I'm building muscle, I feel amazing. Normally, I kind of simultaneously lean out too. So I think because of the reduction in volume and also intensity in the workouts, isn't equating to the normal calorie expenditure and burn and demand on my body to recover. And so I've got to play, if I want to lean out, like right now, I'm just kind of enjoying the process because I'm building muscle. I wonder though if you're going to see how much of enjoying the process because it's I'm building muscle. I wonder though if you're going to see how much of a metabolism boost you're going to start

Starting point is 01:49:27 to see. So that's why I haven't done anything yet. So I am patiently waiting like, okay, if I keep kind of building muscle and getting stronger week over week and not really messing with my food, just keep eating the way I'm eating, well at one point I've reached to where I've got enough muscle mass that it requires more calories and naturally I start doing this deficit Yes, so I I'm kind of patiently waiting on that before I dramatically try and mess with anything calorie wise macro wise But so far so good man the thing that I noticed the most is the

Starting point is 01:49:58 Feeling good and not not feeling really really sore or joints Yeah, it's funny. It's like If it's typically if somebody's been working out for a long time and they really have this, they love it and they really enjoy it, not always, but typically they tend to do a little more than they need to. It's just, you know, because you enjoy it. I do this, listen, I still do this.

Starting point is 01:50:21 I have a freaking podcast where I tell people not to do this and I still do this. And then when freaking podcast where I tell people not to do this. And I still do this. And then when I scale the volume down at a necessity, like time, I have to, or whatever, I'm like, oh my God, I feel so great. You know, it's like, of course, gotta take my own advice. So look, if you love Mind Pump,

Starting point is 01:50:37 you're gonna like MindPumpFree.com. This is where we offer people free advice and guidance in written guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at my pump Justin, Adam is on Instagram at my pump Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at my pump cell.

Starting point is 01:50:55 Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps for performance and maps aesthetic, nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs.

Starting point is 01:51:25 With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal and the Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is MindPump. This is Mindbomb.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1889: What to Do About Loose Belly Skin, the Benefits of Moving From a Split to a Full Body Workout, How to Choose the Correct Weight When Switching Rep Ranges & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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