Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1892: The Fitness Benefits of Boxing With Tony Jeffries & Glenn Holmes

Episode Date: September 1, 2022

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak boxing and fitness with Tony Jeffries and Glenn Holmes.   1892: The Fitness Benefits of Boxing With Tony Jeffries & Glenn Holmes How they survived the pandemic. (2:45) The snowball effect of being consistent and trying new things. (23:00) The power of YouTube. (26:20) Why everyone should learn HOW to throw a punch? (27:37) Footwork is the BEST defense. (32:24) “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” (37:21) Their current passion projects. (41:45) Boxing is a SKILL. (46:17) Why teaching someone to box for a fight versus for fitness are two different worlds. (50:41) The value of having a system to teach. (54:11) If you can’t do something slow and correct, don’t do it fast! (57:29) Their critique of the Oculus boxing games. (59:10) A turnkey solution to boxing in ANY gym! (1:02:35) Related Links/Products Mentioned The Boxing Fitness Academy - **Code MINDPUMP at checkout for 15% off all online & live courses** Connect by Tony Jeffries - **Mention Mind Pump when you submit your application for 2 months free** August Special: MAPS STARTER value $97 or PRIME PRO BUNDLE value $197 you get it for HALF OFF!!! **Promo Code AUGUST50 at checkout** Global Data Show COVID-19 Transmission in Gyms is Rare Tony Jeffries - YouTube The Thrill of the Fight on Oculus Quest | Oculus Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guests/People Mentioned Tony Jeffries (@tony_jeffries) Instagram Glenn Holmes (@glennholmesla) Instagram Mike Tyson (@miketyson) Instagram Kevan Watson (@kevan_watson) Instagram Kerrie Christie (@kez_boxnburn) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we had our good friends on the podcast. Haven't seen them in a while. Tony Jeffery and Glenn Holmes.

Great guys, love them to death. Tony Jeffery's, of course, was a professional boxer for a long time, his friend Glenn and him own boxing gyms in LA. And in this episode, they talk about how they survive the pandemic with their gyms and the kind of value they being trainers with their boxing certification courses. So this is a great episode for trainers and gym owners.

In fact, when I came up as a trainer, I wish I had courses like this to teach me, had to do proper boxing drills, had to train my clients and use boxing as a way to improve their fitness and health. In fact, they have a certification course for trainers and coaches, and it's the only one that we would advise you look into when it comes to boxing or teaching your clients

boxing. This one's legit. It's the boxing fitness academy, and you can find this at Tony Jeffries dot com. So as T O N Y J E F F R I-S.com, by the way, if you use the code MindPump, you get a 15% off all online and live courses. And then for you, Jim owners out there, if you want to run group boxing classes, they actually have a boxing fitness class licensing program. So they can actually put together a program for you that you can then run in your gym.

And it's complete with video instructions and exercise. I mean the whole deal, it's a licensing product. It's actually pretty cool. You can also find that at TonyJeffries.com. It's pretty awesome, but you do have to submit an application for that one. So if you're a gym owner and you want to see if it's right for you, fill it out. By the way, mention MindPump when you apply for an application so they could set you up. Also, these are the final hours for the sale that we're running this month. Maps starter, which is a beginner strength training program, is 50% off, and our prime

pro bundle, which is Maps Prime and Maps Prime Pro. This is a correctional exercise mobility based programs that you can add to any workout. That particular bundle is also 50% off. So Maps Starter and the Prime Pro bundle, all 50% off, you can find them at mapsfitinusproducts.com. You just have to use the code August 50 for the discount. So August 50 with no space for that discount. All right, here comes the show.

I did want to start out by talking to you guys about how you guys survived. You guys had physical gym locations doing very well. I mean, how long has it been so darkness? In the heart of darkness. We saw you guys down there a long time ago, right? I think it was 2000, 18, maybe 2000, 19. It was a while ago.

It's been a while, right? At least a few years, and you guys were crushing. You guys were exploding. I remember you guys were starting opening up new locations. It's an LA. You have to point that out. It's in Los Angeles and then everything got shut down. And you guys were in probably one of the most regulated, strictly regulated places in America when it comes to, especially gyms. Gyms were the first places to close, last places to open. I'm glad to see you guys

have survived. But how did you, how did you guys handle it? Yeah, it was it was horrible. I remember when the first announced that I was like, this this cannot be right. You know, I mean, everyone felt the same like really? What what? And yeah, so we had a close down. It was March 15th. And then we had hundreds and hundreds of members come at each day. So I was like, well, we need to continue to work these members out, give them workouts. So March 16th, I at each day. So I was like, well, we need to continue to work these members out, give them workouts. So March 16th, I went live on YouTube when I was like, I want to give them a workout online.

So one of the first people to do it, I think it was in Los Angeles. And then we had hundreds of people tripping online, but obviously, it's not the same. And then I kind of just dragged on and dragged on and dragged on. And then it got like really serious where Munts had gone by and it was like what we're gonna do What was the what was the initial drop? Obviously you've got to have some people that instantly ran in said I want to cancel. Yeah, you have a small

I don't know what percentage that was and then some people were like oh cool He's given in this video so we can do this at home So they say what would it what did the drop off like? Did it like half the memberships go right away or like what did it look like? Yeah, the top off, not right away, because everyone thought, oh, it's just gonna be for a week. Yeah, two weeks away. And then like two a month people said,

well, so this $250 a month is keep coming out of me account. I'm gonna have to pause this right now. It's only like the real hardcore that like really wanted to like almost see it as a contribution at that point, they're like, yeah, just keep trying me. I want to keep supporting the gym I know I can't come in but that was very small Yeah, I have three gym memberships that I'd still never stopped right? I paid through the whole and I actually still haven't been back to any of those gyms

But I continue to pay just I felt like being in that space and that it's a small amount of money to me And so what that is I can help a small gym keep going so I'm sure there's a small amount of money to me and so that it can help a small gym keep going. So I'm sure there's a small percentage of those people. Would you say half or how much would you say cut right? Yeah, I think half cut within the first two months, which was a huge massive, massive, like I think it was close to a underground a month, like just stopped and it was like, wow.

And our landlords are still like charging rent and because again they have thought that this was going to you know iron itself out and be fine but it wasn't. Not just charging any rent, charging LA level rent. Which is ridiculous. But you know the members like yourself at a middle continued up here was huge for us, because even then, $250 that people were given us, it was big. Because we started the staff to appear, this was before they were getting the unemployment. So it was very tough and, you know, we didn't know what was going on with the future. And, luckily, like you say, we survived it, but one of our gyms didn't survive it. We had to close down one of them, one of the locations,

and we were paying like 22 grand a month rent for that location, and the building was every single month, even when we were closed, we were getting these bills each month. What made you decide to let it go, and how did you keep the other one, and why that one? At what point did you go like, okay, we're bleeding,

and at this rate, we could be closed for another six months, or like at what point did you go like, okay, we're bleeding. And at this rate, we could be closed for another six months. Like what point did you go, we got to stop the bleeding and then imagine you laid off people. And yeah, all the trainers left. But just about all of the trainers left. And a lot of the trainers were taking our clients and then training them elsewhere and getting money in the pocket,

which, no, that's a different story. I think going into the closure, the staff, the gym, there was probably about 20 trainers on staff. Then, the re-opening, we would like down to like three. So everybody just decided, right, I'm not going to stay on staff, I'm going to go get the unemployment money and just train my clients outside of this. What a whole culture and staff and the community just kinda just die. What a crazy predicament to be in like that,

if you're, I mean, you have to understand kinda from their perspective. It was like survival, the fittest, they just lost their income. What do you expect to do? But then you got to understand from you guys, they wouldn't have those clients if you didn't provide the space for them to do it

Yeah, so did that create a lot of oh, yeah, man Yeah, it did I understood what they were doing and to be honest Still hurts though. I would probably don't what they had done right? I was in that situation but it did really hurt because they were like some of them were like Brothers and we were close to them and they were Sneakily in clients and teach them somewhere else and kick in the money. Even though at the time we said to the trainers, we're going to give you 80% of your personal training revenue and we'll take 20% rather

than the 50-50 split. So we give them a higher percentage because they were struggling, but even then they still took them and took 100%. Which was hard for us. What was the, at any point, were you thinking we got to close them all? This isn't going to have to end this. Yeah, we really did, because the debt was building up, keep building up,

and we did get some help from the government, which was great. I think we got about 250 grand overall, but that went towards wages and rent. So what they did, they said that 60% of it got a goal towards wages and 40% towards rent. So we did that, but we still ended up in a big one. Right, that only gets you, I mean, when you're doing

paying 20 plus thousand a month rent, you got a staff that's probably overhead alone, yeah, 40 to 60 thousand dollars a month. So it's like they got you three months, probably a budget. You got three or four months, which it helped for the time being, but not for a pandemic that goes on for over a year. Yeah, a long worth of places shut down in LA for.

We closed down for, I think it was eight months, and then the letters open for a month, but the time when we had to open, we had to have so many restrictions, where it was like you had to be 12 feet apart, you had a disinfectant, you had to have all these different clean and supplies, and those take temperatures,

if everyone that comes in different waivers. So we spent a fortune on getting the gym turned around, so we could actually do the classes. After three weeks of that, it was like, no, no, we close near again. But nobody was showing up with those restrictions in place too. So it was like, yes, we can finally open.

Everyone's gonna come back in, no one, we had this expectation that it was just gonna be flooded again with people. And people hesitant. Despite all the social distancing and all this, and we'd set it all up, the ton of work went into that, zoning things out and everything and all of this and we'd set it all up. It's all the work went into that Zoning things out and everything and all this infecting everything and one person would show up to people I yeah, I nobody wants to do this. I remember up here

They were they were when that all happened they had restaurants that were like okay. We're gonna build an Outdoor area. Yeah, and they spent you know, I know one business owner spent over a hundred thousand dollars I'm building a really nice outdoor eating area, only to be shut down again three weeks later. Yeah. They were so furious. So it did shut down again. And then at that point, Kevin, one of the coloners in the gym went to Tony's partner in the gym, went to the city

and asked if we could, we had like, I think, was like 12 parking spaces inside. Asked if we could open that and zone it off as an outdoor gym and they allowed that. And that right there, if that option wasn't available, both gyms would have had to close. Having that outdoor space available saved it. Because then we started running classes outside.

We built a whole turf area where the parking spaces were, hung heavy bags off the outside wall. And then people started to enjoy that. They would come and do the outdoor classes. They felt a little safer. It was kind of getting things back around. Without that, it would have gone under. So just that alone was enough to at least save what saved it? Yes, just about saving. But we still left in a big hole. But even with outdoor classes, up until the end of last year, people still wouldn't really come, they were still

scared, watching the news all the time, we started wearing masks and then what was crazy is someone's mask would come down past the nose, just underneath the nose and then we would get a massive email complaint of other members. This client's mask went down the nose, your trainers need to be more responsible and telling people to pull the masks on. And this happened a multiple times. Not having a mask off just down past the nose. Are your trainers, your trainer pull the mask down when they're in the way, shout-on directions during a class. If this happens again, I'm not coming back to the gym. Wow, just hysteria. Yeah, wow, that's completely stupid.

You know it's funny, they just studied out of gyms, and they found that they were not vectors of transmission. They were not any major. Well, which, I look, I've been in gyms my entire life. The first place you skip when you start to feel a little sick is the gym. People don't skip going to the restaurant or going to the movies or going out. But if people just feel, ah, skip the gym. So it's probably one of the reasons why.

Not only that, there's also a bias that most people that go to the gym are health conscious and fit. So you have the, the, the, the, what is the smaller percentage of the population that even caught it or had any struggles with it. So that was the irony of the, some of the strictest laws were on gyms. Yeah. When you looked at all the shit that was the irony of the, some of the strictest laws were on gyms. When you looked at all the shit that was going on, movies being made still and restaurants still being able

to operate with these, these ironic closed tents outside, which I thought was hilarious. The green side outside. You know, these outside tents that were sealed with no ventilation, they could do, but then they couldn't be inside the building with a circulation and just blew my mind. Can it kind of go off point a little bit, but at that time, I just remember thinking like,

you want everybody indoors and you don't want people going to the gyms, right? Two of the things that build immune systems and that keep any chance of keeping this thing off, pre-vaccine and all that kind of stuff, right? The two main things that are going to help increase your chances of fighting this thing off, you're stopping people from doing. They can't go work out. They can't go outside. I was just like, yeah, you guys are also LA. And I saw that in Los Angeles. They gave a lot of exemptions to like movie production. So there was one place in particular. I saw this one clip where there was like this shopping center with like coffee shops and restaurants

and mom and pop stores all forced the shut down, but then they brought in movie trailers and directors and all the other things. Was that the woman that was hysterical about that? She was crying on camera. Yeah, I remember thinking, this is not. So, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but any point, did you guys think to yourselves,

let's just be like, speak easy style. Let's do this on the side, have people come in, nobody's saying anything, let's do our thing. I was doing that, in terms of private training. The gym was closed, the doors were closed, but my own private clientele, fortunately for me, we were kind of on the same page as me, there were quite a few just come in and still do the private training. So, I was, yeah, behind closed doors, I was doing private training. That's exactly. We all talked about it off- We talked about this like you know that we felt so blessed that we had built something like this that allowed us to still continue

Like really that our business was not affected negatively by COVID at all We're lucky because had it been just five years previously or 10 years before we all would have screwed And we all say like what would you do? You know, it's know, dude, I would have definitely done stuff under the table. There's no way. I mean, I would have had to. At that point, it would have been survive. I would have only weighed that I would have put food in the table or continued to pay my rent

and to take care of my family. And you feel responsibility to your clients and you believe in what you do. And you're, you know, we're improving people's health. Totally. That was kind of the feedback loop for my clients. We're like, instead of doing two a week, I wanted to come in like three times a week.

And then it started becoming like, can you come to the house? And then clients. We were like, instead of doing two a week, I wanted to come in like three times a week. And then it started to be coming like, can you come to the house? And then it was like, oh, my friend wants to, can you go to the house? And so I started, I got busier and picked up more in-home sessions. So found myself driving around L.A. where everything was shut down.

I could get around the city, 20 minutes instead of two hours. So I was flying. That's the one someone lining up. Yeah, well, I made more money than I've ever made during the pandemic, it was great. Yeah, so, I made more money than I've ever made. You didn't find any, it was great. Yeah, so you know, so here's an interesting thing too. I talked to some friends at own gyms that survived.

Most gyms shut down, I don't remember what the number was, but I know a majority of small gyms were done, but the ones that were able to stick around when things reopened, they saw such a huge influx. And I think it's partially because the competition was kind of wiped out. Did you guys notice anything like that? And things were finally people are okay I'm not scared to come. We're open. Did you guys start to see like okay we got more interest? We didn't not in not in West Alley and I think people is still a

little bit afraid. A lot of people were still a little bit afraid to come into the gym. So you think is it still that way right now? And not not so much right now, but it was for a long time. So right now, yeah, we're taking over, we're doing well. We're not doing half as well as we were before COVID, but we're still, you know, we're still. Yeah, so that's still hurting though. I mean, if you haven't even got back to original numbers, I mean, say that you're at half still, that's. In my experience, I mean, in my opinion, you guys are the best boxing gym I've ever been to with working out.

So, I think to your point, what that highlighted more than anything else was this, and obviously, if you were affected and you had to shut down, this is gonna come off a little wrong. But I mean, the strong businesses, the people that had solid business models, survived that. And the ones that didn't, it definitely got rid of them.

Now, that doesn't mean that there weren't some good business models and good business operators that were dramatically affected or maybe had to shut down I'm not saying that because who has but it was ten ten months of cash flow Right, but a bulk of them a bulk of them of that percentage that that had to shut down and never came back It really I mean it what it did is just exacerbated the problems that they already potentially had, that they were operating with low cash flow, or they had a major overhead, or they didn't have a long-term plan. And so that's what I think that highlighted. Yeah, and you had to see how businesses were able to pivot now and find other opportunities. And so I want to get a little bit more into your virtual side. Like, how did you structure that, and how did you deliver that and control that. Well we went with the after we're doing YouTube lives you know we

we're not getting paid for doing YouTube lives and we're just providing a service for the clients hoping that they would stay on and continue to pay the membership so we we needed to have a have a appeared product and we went and used a Vimeo which was very expensive. It was like grand a month or something. So we put a lot of time and energy into that, built out a on-demand platform for people to sign up for that and we did that and it kind of flopped a little bit. That didn't do as well as we thought because when we launched that, that's when the gym is kind of reopened so we we'll put all the foot off the ball,

and then the gym's closed. So yeah, we focused on that a lot, but it didn't pay off. And it's kind of what we had to do, you had to pivot, you had to do something in the fitness industry. It was successful for a lot of people, but I felt like in 2020, mid-end of 2020,

all gyms start doing this. And then you have apps like Nike or even Peloton that were just killing it, crushing it. So we kind of compete with them and ask them for a higher price point. You know, to peer our builds, like, I see a higher price point, it was like $39 a month compared to when they're charging $10 a month.

People would rather go with them. So you guys, so after this all happened, you guys are like,39 a month compared to when there's charging $10 a month, people would rather go with them. So you guys, so after this all happened, you guys are like, let's go back to what we did before and you went back to the gyms and then the certification courses. How were the certification courses in this period? I'm assuming you couldn't really host any or... Yeah, so we saw an online certification course. This is where we teach, Trian is how we teach boxing to other people. And you know, we did like, I think in 2018, we did 19 courses around the world, then, then 2019, we did 12 courses

one in this gym here. So that was boomin. And then obviously 2020, we couldn't do any live courses. So we already had an online course for the boxing certification. So we kind of, we'll just promote that. And that did well. That did that did pretty well. Oh, okay. I'm interested. So that was okay during that the whole period. Yeah, the online course did kind of did pretty well during pandemic. It's it's it's it would do well enough to make up for the non in person or to just did better in relative or not. Like not we we won't

earn like the hundred grand a month ago. We needed to you know, it's just the end of the gym, but we were earning enough to make a little bit of money for ourselves. No, well, it's something like that happen again. Is there anything you would do different? Or you guys, did you change anything just in case or is it like, okay, that's a one-off? We'll never have to worry about that again. Yeah, the you talking about if the pandemic happened again. Yeah, or something like that, right? Because it's, I think for a lot of people, it made it, I mean, I know it did for me like, man, we're really vulnerable.

For some businesses are really vulnerable to, you know, just stuff like this, where they could just tell you, you can't do business anymore. Yeah. If it happened again right now, I don't know if our gym would be a survive. Yeah. It's, of course, earlier was, was like, we mentioned it was terrible. And a big one of the hardest things was we lost all of our stuff and it takes time to train all of that and find the right people in Alia's very hard to find trainers so to

get them and then lose them and start that again as well. It's tough. Did you guys ever think about leaving and going somewhere that was a little less restrictive in terms of location and like starting it all over again? It's tough. Did you guys ever think about leaving and going somewhere that was a little less restrictive in terms of location and like starting it all over again? Yeah, because we didn't think about leaving because again, we didn't know when this was gonna end. It could have been next week

that we're gonna change the rules because you boys know that we're changing the rules every other week so we was up and so we're like, are we going to open next week? Are we going to open next week? And we were just hoping that would happen. So it wasn't like, let's just pack up and go somewhere else and try and get a new clientele because we had a community and a membership there that we thought, you know. I think we've always valued like the digital side of

the gym. Like, because we've had the academy since 2015, 2016. And then once that started kicking off as live courses, we quickly thought, how can we get this online? And then the same with the classes, now it's like, we've always, the Box and Bone classes been really successful for us, one awards and all that. So we've always had that kind of mindset, how can we take this online? How can we put this in other gyms? How can we digitize our products? Tony's always greater than always thinking about how to digitize and put things online. So I think if it was to happen again, I feel like we're in a spot now where we're probably even stronger online and all Tony is through YouTube obviously, but I think our

products in terms of what we're doing with the licensing and the academy, the fact that they're pretty solid online now and then digitally based products, kind of safe guards us a little bit. So if there's any gym owners listening or personal trainers, I would encourage them like safeguard yourself if you are worried about something like that and then again, just not guarantee it's not gonna happen again,

is just pay attention to the digital side of your product and your business. Well, I was gonna say, you kind of mentioned your virtual training side is not being initially successful, but don't you feel like the work that went into that in terms of capturing a lot of that content and you guys being able to kind of repurpose a lot of stuff, getting in the mindset of how to replicate a lot of what you guys do physically but virtually now.

In terms of that being valuable and maybe opening up other ideas of how to scale what you guys currently do, I mean, did this unlock other ideas, I guess, in a sense in terms of how you guys are thinking about your business pulling online? Yeah, yeah, I definitely did. And if it did happen again, we would focus more on the online status. Of course, like you see, we've already got our bill out and it would be just to promote and push that. But what 2020 did was really give me the opportunity to create more time and create and content to help people with my YouTube channel. And if it wasn't for the pandemic,

I wouldn't have blew up on YouTube. Let's talk about that for a second. So what did you do on YouTube that what did you first start doing there? They really started to get some attraction. So being consistent, and other posting on YouTube, Boxing Education, and you know, I've seen all the other Boxing Education

on YouTube when I was like, this is it, this is it. I was like, there's a gap in the market and do this way better than them. I'm creative, I've got a creative brain. I know how to retain people on videos. So, you know, I'll start doing that I'm posting. And then in 2020, just a blow up and was the one video in particular that you could, you could recall where you're like, Oh, wait, this is the, this is the model or this one's really got started to get traction. Yeah. It was three realistic combinations.

How did on a heavy bag, shot on an iPhone with a little microphone. Is that funny? So funny. And then that video will absolutely blow up. And I'm like, I need to do this again. And then it's harder to do it again, you know. But then that just started a snowball effect. And I was like, wow, look at this. And I just start being consistent with it. And then we'll hire a team to help us with the video edits and everything else. And I'll start investing money into this, and that's when it just changed everything. Now, when you, so we do this, right, if we have something that does way better than other

pieces of content, we'll sit down and try and figure out what it was, was it, what we were talking about, was it how we were communicating it, the way it was edited, maybe there was a particular angle that we took that really resonated, were you able to take that video, deconstruct it, and say, okay, I can see why this did so well, and this is how I should maybe repeat it, was there something about that video that you were able to pit pull from? The was, nothing is a little bit of this, and you can do all what you said, and do it another version of it, but then it'll flop, right? Have you still not flop?

Yeah, that's the thing. If I do this, it'll work, and then you do it and say, oh, it didn't work. But then you'll do something else, and then that there will blow up. And yeah, just being consistent and trying new things, and trying what you said, trying to learn from the videos that did well and you'll do well.

I like your videos that show like, how to, this is when I watch the viewer, where you like, how to actually, which punch throws is more powerful or whatever, and you're actually showing people, this is how you throw a punch that really generates power. And a lot of people have no idea, especially, you know, guys on the street,

if I hit someone this way, it's gonna be real. Yeah. And you're just educating them. I feel like that to the average person, it easy and resonates and it goes, oh, that makes a lot of sense. It's very valued. Well, it's like the one he said that went viral.

It's pretty basic information, I think. Yeah, which is, I think we've learned the same, same experience. I mean, I think one of the more viral videos we did was the push up and pull up one, which actually, what was interesting for us, that that went viral a year after it was released. So we had done it a year ago, but for some reason when the pandemic hit everybody was looking up how to do a proper pushup and pullup, we had some stupid clips.

We didn't have haircuts or anything. Yeah, terrible. It was a terrible video and it might have done way, way better if there actually Some effort in it. Did you have the hammer mustache on that? I think so and your hair remember You have bummed you're all growing out and your hair was all crazy and wild. That's why maybe I Yeah, but we tried to recreate it a bunch of times and then right then nothing happened That's the amazing thing about YouTube. Why I think it's the best platform out there because you do a video If you do a video on Instagram five years later if it's gone yeah do a video on YouTube you're late if it's getting picked up yeah like I was just showing Glenn one of my videos that

today one of my videos it's about how it defend yourself in a street fight I posted that a year ago and in the last 48 hours it's like 150,000 views. And that was posted like, yeah, we've had several situations. So we had a big fitness article, one of the very first video that reached millions of views for us was a fitness article wrote about our and referenced our plank. And that was like almost a year later. Joe Rogan talked about how to do a proper Turkish get up.

I think at that time we were the only like good video on Turkish get up, so that one viral on a time. Yes, that's cool about YouTube as you kind of never know. Like it just, if all of a sudden a wave of people searching a topic and you have a good video related to that. Totally, so I kind of see it as like, you're putting a book in a library. You create your content, you put it in the library

and then you let it sit there and then over the next like five, 10, 20 years people They're just looking for that book and then they find it. That's what I like with it. Like you said with Instagram It's like you put it up there and it's no one's going through your Instagram feed. Yeah, I posted three four months ago I got asked it so so as As a as someone who's been a trainer for you know, long time right over two decades It's hard for me not to notice things like biomechanics and form and technique. I mean, I can see someone running, I can see someone working out.

And it's like, you know, you know a language that other people don't know. So I understand what's going on very easy when I watch it. For someone like you, who's obviously a high level boxer, because there's lots of videos on YouTube of Street Fight. This guy versus that guy. And oh, the balancer took this guy. When you're watching this kind of stuff, are you watching, that must happen to you.

Were you watching it and you go, oh my gosh, look at that punch. You should've wrote him a letter. I'm telling you, we're gonna punch him. You know, a month ago, that was so, that happens to you then. Yeah, I see it all the time. And especially when I watch Street Fight in videos, which I'm not a fan of street fighting

I don't think anyone should street fight, but I'll see these videos and you'll see a big guy, you know, maybe bullying a smaller guy And I just think if that smaller guy did Two months of training he would be able to beat the big guy all day long If you knew I would have threw a punch and I talked about this on my videos as well Everyone should learn how to throw a punch because if you can through a punch, you know, hopefully you never need it, but you know, you're coming handy. So I can you punch. Yeah, I don't know, maybe. Do you I mean, do you feel really that confident? I mean, that's a pretty big statement. That's really interesting that you could say that that it just takes about two months of like good

discipline. And the person who has learned how to punch in a, say, over two or three months time could really outclass someone who outweighs them by 50 to 100 pounds on a street. Wow, 100%. A 100%. If you can learn how to throw a correct punch, which doesn't take long, you can beat anyone,

no matter if you throw a 100 pounds heavy thing yet. Yeah, if you're full of correct punch, punch with a correct technique, I would have never believed this years ago until I did box with a boxer. I didn't box with him, but he was showing me how to punch and hit a heavy bag. He was a hundred and forty pound guy. And the snap and power that came out of his hands. I was like, maybe wasn't. I couldn't believe it.

You know, I couldn't believe that someone could hit the, you know, I did jujitsu as a growing up. And I know what jujitsu guys would come in, big strong guys, whatever, and they just didn't know what they were doing. It was like, you know, if you're good, you could, you could submit them all eating sandwich. It was like that easy.

So, so what's the, what's the big mistake so people make when they throw up on it? The swing, it comes from right back All the way over. Yeah And it's awful the whole the breath and you know and what do you mean hold the breath like Like what you want to do let it out. Yeah, yeah I just thought you would be doing when you're lifting weights, you know, right? Would you would breathe right? Yeah, yeah, and it's when you talk about jujitsu I've just done a video where I did I did 30 sessions of due jits

Who on dear one I spotted with a purple belt who was 50 pounds light than this? 140 pounds right? How'd you feel on the ground with a guy who knows what he's made and then 30 sessions live I spotted him again So I'm like I'm pretty strong. I'm like a hundred and ninety pounds. I'm pretty after that egg pretty strong And I'm like skinny. He's small. I'm pretty strong, I'm like, you're a fit guy. 190 pounds, I'm pretty athletic, pretty strong. And I'm like, he's skinny, he's small. I'm like, really? Come on, really?

Mirt, he destroyed us, he threw us everywhere. He could have done, he could have really, really seriously heard us on the ground with this guy. Because he knows the techniques, you know? And it was amazing. You have for three days. He so made me, about seven times in the, in four minutes, and he was taking it easy.

And after 30 sessions, and I really, really worked hard, you submitted me one time. So I progressed a lot. You know what it is. You're gonna love this because you're a boxer. There was an old quote, and I think I'm getting people right, but it was, it was, it was, it was Hensel Gracie, he's a Gracie, so Jiu Jitsu guy.

And of course everybody knows who Mike Tyson is. And somebody asked him, could you beat Mike Tyson in a fight? And he said, yeah, yeah, I think I could beat him in a fight. And he, oh, I don't know, man, Mike Tyson's a lion. He goes, that's true, he is a lion. He goes, but, but I'm a shark and I'll bring him into the water. So meaning, I'll put him in the place where he doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which for a boxer, like if you were gonna fight a lion, he goes, but I'm a shark and I'll bring him into the water. So meaning, I'll put him in the place where he doesn't know what he's doing.

Which for a boxer, like if you were gonna fight a wrestler, if you tried to stand with you, you have your way with him. But if you're on the ground, like with the Jiu Jitsu wrestler, and then now it's in their world, right? So, and it's basically just, they don't know what to do. Yeah, you know, you make a butt. So in 30 days, what you learned was, maybe you didn't become a great Jiu Jitsu guy, but you at least knew how to drown. Right, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean a butt soul in 30 days what you learned was maybe you didn't become a great jujitsu guy, but you at least knew how to act to drown.

Right? Yeah, you know what I mean? You learned in that 30 days that it's like in order to conquer somebody, it's about technique. That goes exactly back to what you're saying with street fight in a, or the small guy, the big guy. It's like if the guy, small guy knows how to throw a punch, it's the technique. The wins that exchange. Yeah. So, so okay. What about, here's a defensive question.

So if I feel like, or I know I'm about to get a punch thrown at me, how do I, what's the best way to do it? Besides not being there, obviously, but yeah, the way, what's the best way to defend yourself or block a punch? That's coming at you. I would, like, put your hands on Mr. Buck. Like, you know, if your hands are here and Mr. Buck, so it's not a clean, so. Yeah, that's coming at you. I would, it's like, put your hands up and step back. Like, you know, if your hands are here and step back,

so it's not a clean, we're through, yeah, create some distance and move back for works the best defense. Yeah, for works the best defense. Oh, okay. If you think, and I thought about this, when I'm teaching boxing, it's like, you can slip, you can rule, you can block your hands on your head, but better than all

of that is a step back because you're not in range to get hit. And if you're all getting hit, why you step them back, it's kind of taking the sting out of the punch. So put your hands up and step them back. Now you say footwork and you say step back. Now I'm thinking average person was out of step back, but I also know enough to know that there's way more to footwork than just, like I know how to move.

Yeah. What are common mistakes people make with footwork in an altercation in that way? Bringing your feet together, because if you think, if you think, you need to keep your feet apart in a wider stance, because if you bring your feet together, you're off balance,

and you can't really throw a punch if you're feet together. If you're a little wider stance, you can throw a punch. If you know how to throw a punch, that's why I recommend everyone learn how really throw a punch if you're fixed together. If you've got a little wider stance, you know, you can throw a punch. If you know how to throw a punch, that's why I recommend everyone learn how to throw a punch and it doesn't cost money to do this, you can find it on YouTube. What are the most basic steps to that to throw on a punch?

It starts with where your stance and your body movement, yeah, turning your hips fully extending your arm on a straight punch, staying relaxed, exhaling. I don't know if you're on your YouTube channel, you guys, exhaling. I don't know video on your YouTube channel. Yeah. You guys are going with Justin. I remember that. I remember that.

For the basics. Yeah. That's great. Where should you hit some? Okay. So you want to defend yourself. Please stop me if I'm getting boring here. But you want to defend yourself.

I feel like this is going to happen. I'm in a situation. My back's against the wall, whatever. I got to throw the first punch. And I want to make it as effective as possible. Besides, I don't want to have to throw a punch. Where should I aim? If you aim at the chin, but like,

if you're in that situation where it's going to kick off and you've been on this point, you can't be like, I'm going to hit him right on the chin. It's hard to think. It's hard to think, I'm just aim for the face. Just a big, big face. Yeah, just a big face. Yeah, that makes a lot of...

Well, another thing, and one of my biggest YouTube videos ever,, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, here. Yes, I have. Me terrible. You can't breathe. You're on the floor. It doesn't have to be that hard. If someone hits you, they're meant. So would you say that it's easier to get somebody there than to knock them out on the chin? Probably is, but I think more people would throw the foot of the chin. Of course. Yeah, yeah. The naturally you would think, hit them in the face, hit them in the chin, or the nose, even make their eyes water or something. Yeah. But you're saying, hit them in the solar plexus. Yeah. That's the solar plexus made it's game over. Like if, if, if, if Justin, you'll, you'll punch me there now and I, I'm not expecting that. I'm, I'm done with. Yeah.

I'm done for a few minutes. It's all about the expectation. If you can't, if you get caught there while you're not braced for it, it's, there's nothing. Audible. Yeah. So where would you put like a kidney punch or a liver punch? Yeah. I mean, in a street fight, I wouldn't be really fine. I throw hooks to the body. Yeah. So, where did you put like a kidney punch or a liver punch? Yeah. I mean, in a street fight, I wouldn't really find a little hooks to the body. Right. But in a boxing fight, you know, if you've ever been hit around the side there, it's just like that.

It sucks. It's all a big, everything. It's horrible. You know, at one point, because I was training in Jiu-Jitsu, I would hang around with fighters, like who actually fought, you know, cage fighting or Jiu-J or even boxers. And I at one point I was at a bar and we're all hanging out. And there was a guy who was drunk, who was kind of starting or whatever. And I remember just how calm some of the guys I was with were in that situation. Whereas normally

other people would feel threatened, maybe want to fight back or whatever. It was so calm. And they're like, no, it's no big, no big deal with me. Let me buy you drink water. After we were done, I threaten, maybe you want to fight back or whatever, but it was so calm and they were like, hey, no big deal with me. Let me buy you a drink or whatever. After we were done, we went outside and I said, you know, it's really wild that you, I know how aggressive you guys are in the cage or the ring, but in there, like, you had no problem with this guy saying certain things or whatever.

And they said, you know, when if a five year old comes up to you and says, they want to be cheap, like, how do you feel about? It's okay. You just feel confident. You just feel ultimately, is that what you feel like when you walk around? No, I mean, it really is. It's confidence.

And I have a confidence to go anywhere. I'm not really afraid of fighting anyone. Although I would never ever want to fight. But when you learn how to punch and defend yourself or learn Jiu Jitsu, I think you get this certain sort of confidence. And if you think about Jiu Jitsu, you've got a guy on you trying to choke you and strangle you, a box of match, you're just going to point you in the face.

These are uncomfortable situations and to be successful in these uncomfortable situations, you've got to get comfortable. So learning how to be comfortable, your confidence just goes through the roof. Now you guys, I mean, your classes are structured for like more of a fitness kind of cardiovascular activity, but do you have any cool stories about like,

because you teach a lot of like legit technique and stuff like self-defense, that's the big difference between you guys. You guys actually teach, yeah, it's not just, it's not just burn calories, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're actually learning to skill. I mean, have you had any kind of instances

where for a member has come back and been like, man, this has been useful? This weekend, it really like got me out of the camp. I actually pursue the as a career. Yeah, or the decay, exactly. I mean, you've probably heard the quote, what is it, the Mike Tyson quote, everyone has a plan until like a punch in the city. Yeah, you know, we have a lot of members like the Louvert

and they get addicted to it and like, no, no, I want to, I want a box. I want to get in the ring and wait taught and people in Los Angeles Might be a little bit softer Might play other than they can put to the face are like I'm cool I'm just gonna put in my Boston burn glasses Get a mouthpiece on get a head on another a little bit nervous and they're in there and say all right And then put job in the face and turn in a'm gonna say, all right, and then, boop, job in the face, and turn in a wee, and it's like, yeah, it's, I remember it, so I actually had an experience like this. So I, for like a year almost, my buddy and I,

like, we hit pads for like training, and it was just all for getting in shape, that's it, and very minimal technique. And then I got to get in a ring with like a real fighter. Much smaller than me, amateur dude, nothing special. But I mean, just putting the mouthpiece and like learning to breathe. It was like that, I mean, that heightened my heart rate.

I was just trying to breathe and focus on that while I'm getting punched in the face. Oh the fuck this, I don't want nothing to do with this. Like, yeah, it's like, quickly, it's something that I thought I was really passionate about that I was doing for a year. Like, oh, this is cool. I'm filling my punches, getting harder.

And then, I think, like, but that's what I love about boxing is like the minute that you do spar for the first time, it really teaches you a lot about yourself. Because like the minute that you get punched, in your instant reaction tells you whether this is for you or not. Like if you're like, if you get jabbed or you catch a punch for the first time with headguard mouthpiece in and you're like, and you're cower away and you're like, if you get jabbed or you catch a punch for the first time with headguard mouthpiece in and you're like and you're cower away and you're like, oh, I don't like that then it's not for you. Yeah, whereas other people you get jabbed the first time, oh, let's go. And it fires you up and you want to just like give me more, like you're not getting away with that.

So it's like it teaches you a lot about your mentality. I don't just like you said there, but you had the mouthpiece in and you were uncomfortable and all that. Imagine if you continue to do that and you did it for six months and you got really comfortable doing that. That's what I mean about being comfortable and being comfortable with situations. Your confidence, what on any bar, anyway,

I hope you'd be through the roof. Yeah, you know what surprised me? I used to train this old, this guy who was 70, once I say he was 74 when I trained him, a businessman, but he also in his youth boxed a lot. He was a boxer and then he managed boxers for a bit, but 74 year old man and I'll never forget, you know, one day I was at the grocery store

and I don't know he was behind me and he kinda hits me, you know, in the back, like a little back-to-head and I'm like, this guy's hands. It's so heavy, you know? And I told him that. I said, I know you were playing around. I said, I swear to God, if you, I mean, just a little harder, you put your, you know, what it is. It starts. And he said, the last thing a boxer ever loses is his power. Is that true? Yeah. It really is. And that's what we see in boxing. The first thing I go

is, is your time and speed, probably, your time. And then you speed, like your time left, seeing punches come. But yeah, you never lose your power. But another thing about getting hit, which is crazy, is like, the more you do boxing, the more you get hit, the more you get used to it. So let's just say now, Adam, you put a boxing glove on you. You punch me like this hard in the face. I'll probably wouldn't feel it,

but if I did that to you, you'd be like, oh, of course you've not, crushed not used to it. Yeah. You get used to getting punched in the face. That being said, I think it's terrible. Anyone getting punched in the face, you never get punched in. Are you gonna have your daughters box? Are you gonna teach them?

Definitely not. I'll teach them how to box, but when I come with the head trauma, I come with a box and get punched in the head. It's really, really not worth it. And I don't recommend anyone doing head sparring unless you're gonna have a fight. Shoulders, you can shoulder sparring, body sparring, all the long, but what's the, what's the,

maybe the boys they try to date them, you can practice with them. Yeah, just from the capital of Thailand. Yeah, big thank God. 10 years from now is gonna be really interesting. It's really, really, really,'s going to be a good deal. So with the new venture now and moving into this kind of like real like you guys are going all in on the virtual space, is there any thoughts to letting go of the brick and water,

letting go of the gym and actually going all in on the you know, certifications and then the digital, the digital boxing courses and everything? I think we'll keep that there. My business point in the gym, Kevin Watson, he's kind of running that where I'm focused on more on other side, the license inside, where I'm getting boxing classes into gyms with all the product, I will connect product.

And that's kind of what I'm passionate about. I'm not passionate about running a bigger more gym anymore, but I wanna help gym owners, you know, have boxing, and I wanna really help as many people as I can with boxing for fitness, and this new product that we've created, I think we're really going to. Now, how do you, okay, so we know Kevin.

And so that's nice, he's able to run that. How does the partnership work between all three of you guys? Because you're the three that I know of that are, there's nobody else, right? Yeah, we've just got we bought another partner in a carry who's kind of a partner in the gym as well. Okay. So like Kevin and Kerry or one in the gym space, me and Glenn is more on the licensing and the and the academy species. Now, will they get a cut of any of this stuff that's going on or is that that they just get the gym stuff?

A little bit, a little bit. But with the Academy and the Education, that's just me and Glen who's doing that. Yeah. And then the License and Product, we kind of using Box and Burn name, letting people license our successful classes out to their gym.

So yeah, the gym will get a little cooler that. So the idea really is you have a course in the class and you're gonna You'll be able offer this to gym owners Teach their trainers and then they'll be able to run these courses these classes. Yes So it's basically a turn-k solution So if you're a gym in West Virginia and you've got no idea at all how to Put a boxing class in what you know how popular boxing is and you want to add a boxing fitness class Well now we can give you everything you need to successfully and smoothly add a boxing

fitness class to your facility with all the education, all the programs, workouts that are digitally delivered to you, all the marketing materials and everything you need. Now originally I thought it was very similar to like the less mills kind of model but I actually think it's more like F-45 or orange theory that you guys can literally be kind of model, but I actually think it's more like F-45 or orange theory that you guys can literally be kind of hands off because I know less mills, you have to come in to the studio, you have to train them, and then they actually have to teach course where you guys are providing the digital assets. So basically the trainer just has to throw it up on the TV like at F-45 or like at orange

theory does, where they're just kind of keeping the class moving and stuff like that, but the instructing is actually coming from you guys. Yeah, exactly. We know what works in this space. We've been doing it since 2012, and we know what doesn't work. So with our program workouts, we know that the that the great workouts and we teach the trainers how to teach them successfully, that we've done over the years, and so far the gems that we're in are seeing great results from it. Now, how many locations you guys have that you're in the side?

We're in nine different locations right now in three different countries. So it's like for anyone in the world, but we've kind of just soft-loanced it. This is kind of the first time we've talked about it on a big platform. With the other, because there's a lot of boxing cardio classes and workout class.

Like when you look at those, what did you see that you said? I wanna do one that's different. What do they do that's wrong? The first thing for us was like you touched on F-45, what they're doing with the interactive element and being able to see what you need to be doing in a class. I think he's really important and really innovative

and great, but there was nothing in that realm for boxing fitness. So like you took it on boxing fitness classes, they're not really that well programmed. You're expected to just quickly learn eight punches in one minute and then you're in the class. And so that form goes out the window and no one's really understanding

correct boxing techniques. So we wanna bring like that authenticity in like correct boxing technique to the fitness space, which we've done successfully with a brick of mortar, but adding that interactive component where the members can see the form, the combinations on the screen so they're concentrating on what they have to throw and when they have to throw it,

they see in the visual, the form's gonna be better, they're gonna get more out of it and there's the strength and conditioning component too, which they're also following along in the classes as well. So I just think having that visual for a boxing fitness class is huge and that's something that we saw didn't really exist. No, this is originally what made me fall in love with you guys as business model. I mean, all of us have experience in big box gyms for decades. And I'm very guilty of this too,

of learning a few combinations on the pads and the next thing you're doing, I'm doing it with all my clients because they love it. There's no doubt clients that get introduced to, hit in pads, they absolutely love it. So addictive, yeah. But when I think back of all the trainers

that I saw doing that, including myself, like nobody had proper technique. Like nobody was really throwing. We were all doing it for like, oh, it's cardio and it's fun. So there's this huge opportunity for someone to come in that knows how to coach to you. And I see the same thing at like, so you have your de thrones, your rock boxes, you have these classes, and they don't put the effort into teaching even the coaches. You have coaches that are up there, maybe running these classes and they don't put the effort into teaching even the coaches. You have coaches that are up there maybe running these classes and they don't want to throw a punch. I have a buddy who owns one of those franchises and he can't throw a punch of his life dependent

on it. He's a meathead. He plays football and he lifts weights and then I see him throw a punch in like and I know I can't throw a great punch. He really can't throw a punch. And he yet here he is teaching a whole course of people how to do it. So I know there's massive opportunities for you guys to help people. That was kind of the ignition for the Academy, which we started in late 2015,

really kickoff in 2016, was we were like, saw a lot of PT's and coach, he's trying to teach general population boxing and doing pad work. And we were just like horrified but we would see like huge like wide angles. Yeah. You see the guy down at Venice Beach when we went me and Glenworth out there I think we

were having a few cocktails and it was a big juke said guy massive juke said guy and he had these myths on and a little petite lady and he was like come on do really smashing hands in I was thinking he's going to get he's going to get an engine and then was like do you know what, if he brought the gel balls in and he went back on the resistance, you'd actually be not bad. And I was like, yeah, you're probably right there. And I was like, ah,

I started teaching people. Yeah, the coach, he's doing more work than the boxer. You know, like they're doing this. Yeah, I was just kind of going like this. His like the wrong way. They're hitting me hands. Yeah, yeah. And what people don't realize is with mid work specifically,

there's a huge amount of technique, a lot of time in it. And that does come with experience and doing it. It's a beautiful thing to see when you see it done right. It's like there's a rhythm flow to both of those. It's very addictive for the coaches too. When you start building combinations and you get that time and chemistry down with the people you're working with,

it's great, it's great, modality. It's similar to what we see in the gym in the sense that some people will treat like strength training as just a workout rather than it's a skill. Like squatting is a skill, throwing is a skill, pressing the skill, but people they think, well, if I just get sweaty, tired, and sore, well, that's the same thing, it's not because if you do the skill right,

you get a lot of value. If you don't, you might as well jump in place because you're doing kind of the same thing. 100%. It must be like that with hitting myths or practicing combinations or doing a boxing class. Yeah, you're going to get like, way more out of it if you're throwing punches

with correct technique. Rotate in your core, using your legs for rolls and moving your feet. That's another thing with midwork as well. You see a lot of it on Instagram and it's very fast and flashy and it looks cool, but it's all in place. Like right, just right here. Like, it's like,

I don't have a little bit of movement and footwork into it, and that person's going to get 10 times more out of this session. So that's just social media midwork, that's not real? That's how you're somebody refer to it as happy pets. Happy pets. Next time you see this, anyone listening, next time you see one of them fancy flashy combinations, just cover your film over the boxer, right? And then just look at the mid person and you'll just see them just like doing this with

all the hands moving forward. Oh my god, I would have never caught that. So they're not just throwing their hands everywhere. But you know what, we will make them fun of that. And the way we look at it is the clients getting a good, if it's for fitness, the clients getting a good workout. They're not trying to be a boxer, they're enjoying it, they're getting conference.

So yeah, we're heating on a little bit, we laugh about it, but I'm forward. If as long as the help in someone, and they're introducing the boxer, yeah, I'm kind of like. Let's back to Sal's analogy. It's like how we look at the gym thing. I like you don't ever want to discourage somebody

from getting in the gym because they're not using the gym properly. It's like you're here, at least you're put the mitts on. So, but I get it, but it's still like nails on the chalkboard for a professional. Yeah, but I do want to say this and I'd love your input on this, okay? Technique with exercises is there's a few different reasons

why you want good technique. One is you get better results. Yeah. But the other one is you minimize risk of injury. Like a proper squat done by somebody who can do it properly, who has good strength and mobility, the proper strength and prerequisite mobility to do it is, I mean, you're not going to get hurt.

If you do everything right, it's appropriate. You're not going to get hurt. I'm, you're not gonna get hurt. If you do everything right, it's appropriate. You're not gonna get hurt. I'm assuming proper boxing technique isn't just because it makes you effective at knocking someone out. It's also because it keeps you from hurting yourself. If you throw a punch wrong, look, I learned it. I know this.

I go throw a baseball as hard as you can. If you don't throw a good technique, you don't have the prerequisite strength, your shoulder gets sore afterwards. So I'm assuming the same thing is true when you're practicing boxing, even if you're just punching the air. And on the coach inside too, if you're catching punches, that's why with that's what probably the biggest thing about our academy is like reducing risk of injury on the coach inside.

If you're, you want to take clients, you want to, you know, make people punch harder, as your clients punch harder as your clients punch harder, your technique on the mix has got to be even better too. So same thing applies for coaches, catching punches, but you have you guys had coaches and trainers who've done other, who've taught other boxing cardio type classes and then they go learn from you guys and then they do your way and they tell you, yeah, all all the time we get them come along who've done this and you know, I always prefer to work with someone who's got no experience because they've got no bad habits bringing someone in with with

bad habits the same with a client if a client comes to the gym and they've been boxing for all being boxing for three years but they've been at some gym that's teaching them boxing to the beat and the habits is terrible and they can't get out of the bad habits and it's kind of the same with coaches. You know, what's funny, we get coaches who taught professional boxes, come and work with us and you know, they learn a lot from us. But at first they're thinking, well, how can these guys teach me something new? And it is because teaching someone how to box for a fight

to sit teaching someone how to box for fitness, it's kind of two different things. Oh, interesting. So, it's totally different. Yeah. Two different worlds. Like, if you think about this, if a middle-aged lady came into my professional box

in gym where I trained, and where I was with my trainer, and she threw a bad job, you'd see, what the fuck was that? Bring that back to your face. What are you doing? What's this? Like, they don't know how to speak to people. Let's get frustrated.

Yeah, what was that? Oh, this is bullshit. And she's out the door. She's not coming back every day, you know? But that's why it's all, I feel like it's better to turn a fitness professional who knows how to talk the clients into a boxing fitness trainer,

then a former boxer, out of boxing coach, you know? Oh yeah, you're 100% right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause I would expect completely different culture. That's the exact same experience that we have with coaches and trainers. I would, oh, I mean, it took me half my career to figure this out, but I would rather have

a kid with no experience who I get to mold into a great trainer than some guy who's got 10 years experience. He's been doing it his way forever. And now he's gonna come into my gym and my system and stuff like that. And we do things totally different. Like we're constantly blooding heads

and I have to break all his bad habits and a lot of times it doesn't happen. Yeah. And those kinds of value you more in the long term too, because you taught them from the ground up, you kind of gave them that education as well. Totally. Another thing as well is we're giving coaches like systems too,

which is something that's, I think, invaluable is like Tony said, they'll come from boxing backgrounds or even fitness backgrounds, and they'll be like, they don't have a system to teach someone for the first time. So it's like, you get someone coming into your classes or your gyms and they're like, I wanna box first time, you know, like, what do I teach them, like, what order would I teach them?

What do I teach them first? And it could be different every time. And it used to be like that at our gym. We would just kind of make it up as we go along for the first couple of years, because we were super busy, dialed in that system, ah, this is working, okay, this is working,

this is what's bringing people back in. Now we've got it down, it's the same every single time someone comes in for the first time. Is the order of what you teach when you're teaching a class, does that make a difference? Or can people just be like, oh, I know how to do myths and shadow boxing and I'll just throw it in there, wherever, like does that make a big difference? You said systems. Why is that make a difference? Why would you want that?

Because if all you're say for example, you're a fitness director or a gym owner, right? And you're running boxing classes and you've got two or three coaches teaching your boxing classes. And then one one class he's teaching them this. And then the next time they come in, they go to the second trainer and then they go, oh, you came last time, I'm gonna teach you this. And that, oh, well, that guy told me to do it this way. And this guy told me to throw the hook this way. So that's why you need systems.

So it's consistent to get the same information, the repeat information. Obviously, the classes and the programs can be varied up. But like when you're teaching people from the ground up, the systems is key. And that's what we've prior to our self with the academy is we're teaching these coaches a system, so then when they bring on new clients, they've got that confidence to then go and teach the same thing over and over again, and we've proven that it works.

If you teach them the system in this order and use these specific cues, they're going to feel confident, they're going to come back, they're going to understand it better, and that's kind of why we've had success with the Academy, I think. Yeah, one of the things we liked most, and Adam, touch on this about what you guys did with your gyms was that you guys had, there was technique, people learned some technique

and skill, it wasn't just a workout, which, you know, if you just wanna move that's fine too, but as a business owner, first off as a trainer, I like that there's technique, because there's authenticity behind it. And I'm obviously with what I teach, technique is very important. So I would imagine that with whatever you guys teach,

being experts in that field, that's going to be very important as well. But as a business owner, I thought to myself, man, a customer coming in and just, you know, throwing their hands in the air to music versus learning, actually learning. Oh, this is like the proper position for a jab.

This is how I throw a straight. This is how I throw a hook or, you know, this is the positioning for it. They leave with something more than just sweating. And I felt at the time this would offer more value and you guys are showing that. Yeah, yeah, you learn a new skill. Again, it comes about that conference as well. Why don't you've learned that new skill? It ups the conference. And if I went into a gym and I seen the boxing program of the boxing classes and I seen everyone just throw wild, crappy punches to the beat, I'm like, this is not great. But when it went into a gym, you come out of

a gym, you see all the clients. I mean, they're all not amazing, but they're all trying to through real boxing, form and technique. It's a lot better. So, with classes like yours, I've seen other boxing classes, and the instructor typically does is walk around and try to get everybody to go harder. Go harder, go faster.

Come on, you can go, you can do it. Your guys' instructors are correcting form. Yeah, as they walk around. Exactly, yeah. So what I see, if you can't do something slow and correct, don't do it fast. Yeah. Exactly. And it's the same with one punches. I'm moving your feet. You know, if you can't do it slow, don't do it fast. But yeah, obviously we want to get them a good workout. So we'll encourage them to punch a little bit harder. But yeah, it's all about good form and techniques. You learn that skill.

But I think the main thing is, and what we tell our trainers is, we need to make sure that the clients have fun, because they can learn a box like Floyd Mayweather, but if they didn't enjoy the session, they're not going to come back. They can have a great work or whether they can't work when they're exhausted, but again,

if they didn't enjoy the work out, they're not going to tell their friends about what a post you want, social media. So the most important thing is they enjoy it, and have a great work out, they're not gonna tell their friends about a Porsche on social media. So the most important thing is that they enjoy it and have a great work out. Yeah, and we're trying to really pull away from this, like, go till you drop mentality. You know, we always had a reputation in the early days, like the class was really hard, it was now along and we were proud ourselves on members being exhausted, but like kind of steering more to like smarter training now where if you where, if you do a box and burn class,

whether it's at Box Burn itself or at one of the gyms that we're licensing to, you're gonna get a smart 45 minute workout where you're gonna enjoy it, you're gonna burn calories and get a great workout, you're gonna learn something along the way, but we have it programmed where you can do that like three, four times a week.

That the goalier isn't to just blast you on Monday and then you can't walk for three days. It's like that's not good for a gym when the members can't come back in through a three. Are you guys any good at boxing on Oculus yet? Oh, man, I am fun in it. Are you good? Yeah, are you pleaded?

Hell yes, I am. So I can do advanced four guys in a row. Put them down. That's my, that's my, that's good. Yeah, that's my claim to fame right now. So he can lock the wheels now. At least. Yeah.

He told me so. What do you think of it though? I think it's pretty real. I'll kill you. Yeah, me it's amazing. So at the beginning of the year, I'll just weird by doing that. Yeah, so I was using it as cardio.

Yeah, I'll just, yeah. So that's about 20 minutes of like intense cardio. Are you as good on Oculus as you were in real life? I'm better. You know why? I can take a bunch of things. So I want to hear your critique on it because I was so that game is what made me go buy the Oculus goggles because I was so impressed with the realism. Right. Of it. So does it? Yeah. For somebody with your experience, because now it's really

in your world. Does it feel pretty? I mean, obviously, it's not like fighting a person, but would you say it's the reason why it's realistic is because the harder you punch the more damage it does, which is great. And then as well, if you, if you punch in them and the blood on it, you know, hit them to the body, drop the hands, then come over the top, which I was blown away. I was like, wow, this is real. So it's making me think and I'm not falling in, and I absolutely loved it.

Yeah, I love you. And what's, what's crazy, right? I'm falling in and I absolutely loved it. And what's crazy, right? I reached out to the creator of this game. On LinkedIn, I was like, mate, this is, this is amazing. You've done a great, great job with this. I'm a big fan. I was kind of hoping that I'll get a sponsorship from a YouTube channel. And he responded like, wow, Tony Jeffies, I can't believe you're you're sending me this message. We

used your videos for the techniques No way no way that's a missing. Oh, it's great. No, I don't like it. Yeah, this is accurate So that's a big blonde guy that I've got a feeling he's maybe a bit after me Yeah, I've learned to play her off some of that. I've never not yet, but that the developed thrill of the fight to what's going to be a lot more realistic. And he's going to give me first access to that one. I mean, they're the Oculus goggles in my opinion are worth it just for that game. Yeah.

Can you imagine putting them on and you get to box? Oh, I'm so glad it's got your stamp approval because I was so blown away by it. Yeah. I mean, I told everybody about it after I got it. I was just like, this thing is so, you know what it was too, and I don't know about your experience, but, you know, the last time I tried anything VR-wise was probably years ago, and the technology was so cheating back in. I thought it was going to look weird and not, but boy, when I put that thing on, I was

like, whoa, I feel like I'm here. And just like you said, like like the game was so responsive like you if you you get away with a couple jabs like they figured out and they put their hands up but you gotta you gotta figure it out move in between rounds I'm like sitting down yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean wife's like Tony what the hell are you doing? Just I'm in the car and it's the rebels I'm going what do you want to do? I can get four fights. After four fights, I am done. And I am absolutely done.

And I am drenched in sweats. It's great cardio. So good. I'll use the controller. The first time I tried it, I was so realistic. I was like, loading up. And then boom, I was in the ring. And like some gym in New York or whatever.

I'm like, oh, getting ready to go like this. And I'm like, looking at old guys sat around the ring. And the next thing is like, ding ding ding. And then the guy's like right here. And I'm like, yeah, it's like realistic. You can't switch off for a second. Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Okay, so this, so what you guys are doing essentially

is you guys have created this course where a gym can come and you can teach their trainers. And then they have this course that they could have Tought in their studios so people could do this boxing. Yeah, it's like a turnkey solution out in boxing at any gym in the world Like successfully where we give them like all the program workouts on the screen So they'll follow along with it and we educate the trainers How to how to box how to teach boxing and how to teach this class so they'll have success with it and how to box, how to teach boxing, and how to teach this class so they have success with it. And not only that, how to build relationships and build the community and retain clients,

because again, that's that's key. And then as well, all the marketing side, we give the gyms as well. So the gym can promote this, because as you boys know, you can have the best class in the world, but if nobody knows about it, you're not going to get very far. So yeah, we've put everything into this and I think it's going to be very successful and I think it's going to help so many gym owners there, you know, bring back in old members that might lost through the pandemic. We want to try something different or help with team clients that might be getting a bit bored of their work out as well. Yeah, so.

Well, we wish you guys all the luck in the world and if someone wants to do, if there's a gym a bit bored of their work. As well. Yeah. Excellent. Well, we wish you guys all the luck in the world. And if someone wants to do, if there's a gym owner listening right now, interested, do they just go to your, yeah, go to twentiethes.com and you'll find all the information. Well, I mean, we know you guys,

you guys are tons of integrity. You've always been very nice to us. And we really appreciate what you guys are doing. So, yeah, thanks. Hopefully you guys have our stamp of approval. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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