Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1896: The Superior Form of Exercise to Lose Body Fat, Avoiding CrossFit Injuries, the Best Order to go Through MAPS Programs & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we had live callers call in so we could coach them on air. But this was after a 47-minute conversation, we talked about fitness, scientific studies around fitness and health, our lives, current events,

Starting point is 00:00:31 and much more. By the way, you could check the show notes for timestamps if you just want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one where we can talk to you live on air and then put it up as a podcast, email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode of Mind Pump is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organify. This is one of our longest running sponsors. They make plant-based performance enhancing

Starting point is 00:00:56 and health-improving supplements. Today we talked about their pumpkin spiced gold juice. So you actually mix this up at night. It's good for relaxation, inflammation, it's got turmeric and other compounds that help with those things. It tastes delicious and this flavor is not around all your long, it's pumpkin spice season. Anyway, go check this company out, great company,

Starting point is 00:01:16 good people, go to organifi.com, that's ORGA and IFI.com, forward slash mine pump and then use the code mine pump for 20% off. Another sponsor that brought to you today's podcast is Ned. They make full spectrum hemp oil extracts, new product that I actually got to take part of in the creation. This is something for brain, for cognitive function, for cognitive performance. You really feel this stuff and I know because I help them

Starting point is 00:01:45 put it together. So you know, it's going to work. Try it out. It's a great product. It's called the Brain Blend. If you want to give it a shot, go to helloned.com. That's H-E-L-L-O-N-E-D.com-Forward-Sash-MinePump. And use the code MindPump and it'll get 15% off any of the products, including the brand-new product, the Brain Blend. Also, we got a sale going on this month. We created two bundles and then made them both 50% off. So there's the Skinny Guide bundle, which includes Maps and Obolic, Maps aesthetic, the Nobius Six Pack formula, the Intuitive Nutrition Guide, and the Inclusion training guide. All of that put together in the Skinny Guide bundle, 50% off.

Starting point is 00:02:24 And then the other bundle is the Fit Mom bundle, which includes maps anywhere, maps in a ballac, maps hit, and the Intuitive Nutrition Guide. Okay, so that's also 50% off. So if you're interested in either one, go to mapsfitinistproducts.com and then use the code S-E-P-T-50. So once again, it's S-E-P-TT 50 with no space for that 50% off discount.

Starting point is 00:02:46 All right, here comes the show. Teacher time. And it's teacher time. Oh shit, you know it's my favorite time of the week. Yes, indeed. We have three winners this week, two for Apple podcasts, one for Facebook, the Apple podcast winners are Ash M. Kenny 1420 and Jenny Lynn 77. And for Facebook, we have Norma jelly. All three of you are the winners this week. And your name to iTunes at mind pump media.com, include

Starting point is 00:03:19 your shirt size and your shipping address. And we'll get that shirt right out to you. Believe it or not, fasting can actually be an effective tool to build muscle. Ooh, I know. I hope this is true. Yeah, well, it's still fasting. It's what you're fasting. I mean, what inspired me to say that's what you're doing right now with the fast here looking handsome, sitting here looking. Yeah, I looked at you and I said, man, whatever you're doing, it's work.

Starting point is 00:03:45 It's work, kid. No, I think first off, fasting, fasting's benefits really begin and end, in my opinion, with how it can affect your relationship to food, how can affect relationship to yourself, how you handle stress, how you handle bad feelings, because we tend to develop these relationships with food. Also, if your relationship with food is in this kind of bulk all the time, I think fasting

Starting point is 00:04:15 can help with things like appetite, change the types of foods that you eat, and also resensitize your body to nutrients. And I left that last for a reason because I know that's the one that most people get excited about. But when you are constantly feeding your body food all the time in this kind of constant state of trying to bulk, it's almost as if your body becomes desensitized. And if you talk to like competitors who compete in stage presentation sports or people who diet for photohoots get really lean. Ask them how easy it was to build muscle when they stopped the diet and started back up on a bulk and started training again for

Starting point is 00:04:53 strength. And they'll all tell you, oh my god it's the most anabolic of ever felt my life. I experienced this myself. It's amazing. I wish that I had found this sooner in my career because we had already started the show when I started to utilize fasting. So this has only been the last seven years that it's become something that I've used. Quite regularly, not as regular as we were

Starting point is 00:05:17 early on in the podcast when we were talking about it a lot, but I still utilize it. It's been a while since I had done a 72 hour fast, but as I'm going through it, there are certain things that I'm realized, obviously, one of the things you're pointing out, like, it's so fascinating to me how, right now, these foods that are so health,

Starting point is 00:05:36 like something so plain and whole food and that I wouldn't be drawn to, like I'm drawn to eat right now. And I think if I would have, I would think if I would have known what I know now, training clients, there's probably a large percentage of them that I actually would have started almost all of our diets with a fast to kick it off. Knowing what I know now and like, one,

Starting point is 00:06:02 addressing the relationship with food, because I don't care whether you're a hardcore bulker or hardcore cutter. And most people don't have the best relationship with food, including myself. Right. And so I think breaking those ties to start before we start weighing and measuring, tracking, following any sort of diet, whether it be putting you in a surplus or a deficit, breaking those. So long as you don't have any previous conditions, right? If you're, you don't want it to feed into, you know, maybe if you were like overly restrictive in the past, had eating disorders or disordered eating in that direction, right?

Starting point is 00:06:38 Fasting is just going to be more of the dysfunction that you have. Right. So that part, I would be very careful about who I recommended it to, but I see tremendous benefit for a lot of people in the fitness space that go on and off diets all the time. And when you go to start back up on being consistent and kind of starting from that place. Because I'm very excited now to go into a more strict diet than from where I just came from. And I don't feel like it's gonna be hard to, I'm not restricting, because I'm getting to eat for the first time

Starting point is 00:07:16 in three days now. Yeah, I see a lot of psychological benefit to that about setting the intent, you know, and like being able to really, not just like plan it out, the logistics and what you're going to do with your diet, but really like get your body in a good place where it's receptive and you're going to be more drawn towards healthier choices and what you're trying to try and do to it versus, like I'm so fixated on losing body fat, I'm so fixated on these cosmetic things.

Starting point is 00:07:50 And I think I just put you in a better head space in general to- And we have to be very careful because all powerful tools and fasting is a powerful tool, by the way, not because of what you've heard for the last five years of the, you know, the cellotophagy and the reducing inflammation, the physiological effects and all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:08:10 That's not what I'm referring to. Fasting is a powerful tool to help break the ties with one of the most, one of the things that we're most connected to on earth, which is food. Okay, by the way, you could fast from electronics, you could fast from, you know, obviously drugs or sex or anything you start to develop a bad relationship with. And fasting is a present in every major spiritual practice

Starting point is 00:08:34 because it's very powerful. But like all powerful tools, if it's not utilized properly, it can go in the wrong direction. So I want to say that first. Well, it also reveals bad habits and tendencies that you've had. That you have ignored and pushed through and just go into your routine. The routine is masked. A lot of things that weren't visible unless you really pull yourself out and get that

Starting point is 00:08:57 thousand-foot view. Yes, and that's where I see a lot of value because if you have a tendency to reach for food every time you're uncomfortable or anxious or sad or depressed or bored and then you go for three days where or two days or whatever where you don't have that comfort you pull that away you have to face it first of all and then learn how to deal with it differently and you change your food. Now physiologically, you do resensitize how you perceive food. This is a fact. So for anybody who's ever avoided sugar for a long period of time, a piece of fruit, all of a sudden, tastes so sweet. Or if you eat a lot of candy all the time, you'll notice that natural sugars don't taste the sweet. They kind of taste kind of bland.

Starting point is 00:09:43 So you adapt to that. So you get this kind of physiological. I hate to use this word reset because so many people use reset diet or whatever. But you get this kind of physiological reset phenomena. You break the tie, these bad relationships, or you set up the potential to break up bad relationships with food. So long as your bad relationship is not eating food, right? And it doesn't lead to binging, because that could also happen afterwards.

Starting point is 00:10:05 But if you use it in that way, it can be this very powerful, for lack of a better term, spiritual practice with food. Now when it comes to building muscle, my God. If, look, Adam and you and I connect on this level because we're very similar as kids, skinny kids, always trying to eat, always trying to, you know, gain weight.

Starting point is 00:10:22 I had developed a relationship with food where like, if I didn't eat every two hours, like I was anxious. I had to have protein bars with me, protein shakes, I had to constantly eat all the time. So when I fasted for the first time, the benefit I got out of it was, wow, muscle didn't just fall off my body. Wow, I actually feel pretty good.

Starting point is 00:10:39 I think I was overeating before. This is kind of interesting. And I developed a different relationship with food that became much healthier. But then there's the boy. If you're in this constant bulk and you're already healthy and then you fast for a little bit, when you come back, it's like your muscles are sponges

Starting point is 00:10:57 and they just absorb nutrients. You get this anabolic effect that feels like a last like a week. Well, your entire body, I feel, is like a sponge. And I think there's tremendous value in teaching people the intuitive aspect of it. Like we talk about intuitive eating all time. And sometimes it sounds a little less of a character way

Starting point is 00:11:13 we talk about, like connect to how you feel and your energy levels and your sleep. And people are just like, huh? I wonder, they don't think of food like that. And they have a hard time when I explain that. This is what we're trying to forget about the scale, forget about the mirror right now. Let's try and look at all these other markers,

Starting point is 00:11:32 and they kind of feel lost to like, I don't know what I feel, or I don't know if that's causing that. And doing this fast, like one of the things I love when I come out of it, is I become so hypersensitive to everything. I mean, caffeine and food and all the different types of foods that I eat. And so you know if you have a hard time connecting that how certain foods make you feel and

Starting point is 00:11:54 you clean everything out for a day or two or three and then you go back to reintroducing it slowly. I mean it's almost like a fast track of the elimination diet, right? Like the elimination diet. I mean, there's nothing else to eliminate. That's about as eliminated as a game. Yeah, that's what I mean, right? So the elimination diet.

Starting point is 00:12:11 Right, vegetarian. Ideally, you run for about 30 days, they say, before you start to reintroduce different foods. And so you kind of get right to that place where you've got, okay, nothing's been, you know, I haven't been anything for three days now. And I'll have to start slowly with like broth and really easy digestible type of foods, right? Like I have ground, ground turkey and sweet potato lined up. And like these are some easier foods for my, I know my stomach totally agrees with. And then I'll slowly start to

Starting point is 00:12:39 introduce other things. And while I'm slowly eating things for the first time again, I then will pay attention to those signs we always talk about, energy, I strength, my sex drive, my sleep, my mood, and see if I can notice a difference. I think that's a great thing to take away from it. So you know what's interesting is, so bodybuilders have notices for a long time,

Starting point is 00:13:02 where they'll say after a show, right? So they'll die it down and get super shredded unhealthily, meaning they get so lean that it's not a good place to go to get on stage, 3% body fat, 2% body fat, just crazy. But then afterwards they'll say, oh my gosh, the anabolic feeling, the muscle building feeling you get afterwards

Starting point is 00:13:23 when I start to refeed myself, is insane. So you know what's funny about that? And this has been anecdote forever. And I've experienced it. I did a, you know, when I did the first, the original maps in a ballic, I got down leaner than I ever did before

Starting point is 00:13:36 because I wanted to be on the photos and I needed to make an impact, I thought. And afterwards it was like, I had never experienced the muscle building feeling like that in my entire life. Well, studies will actually, they confirmed this in some ways. Did you know that one of the fastest easiest ways,

Starting point is 00:13:51 and this makes evolutionary sense, one of the fastest easiest ways to increase angrogen receptor sensitivity and density. So the angrogen receptors are what testosterone attached to. Okay, so in fact, studies will show that testosterone levels don't impact muscle growth as much as Androgen receptor density does. So they actually did a study with a bunch of men to see, okay, as long as they're not kind of a general healthy range, you know, these guys have this much testosterone, these

Starting point is 00:14:18 guys have this much testosterone, how much does that attribute, how much of that contributes to muscle growth? And they found, it's not a lot, but when we look at androgen receptor density, holy cow that makes a big difference, like whoever has more androgen receptors and that are more sensitive, they build muscle much more effectively. Well, fast thing does that.

Starting point is 00:14:37 We have, there's studies on that that show that it increases androgen receptor sensitivity and some show that maybe even density. So if you're like on a bowl all the time and you're trying to build all the time, and when I figured this out for myself, I would advise certain clients that would do this and say, you know what, let's have you fast for a day or two.

Starting point is 00:14:57 And then we'll go back to our regular, and they're always like, oh my God, I'm building again. Like what is going on? I can't help but think there's gonna be pushback from like the broskies out there. Of course. That only see it as catabolic andabolic, right? And if you're trying to tell them that, you know,

Starting point is 00:15:14 maybe stepping out and fasting for a bit, not actually contribute towards your gains, but you know, I just feel like that's gonna be a big disconnect. Oh, I mean, it was, you're right. And if you ever were coached by me, it was, I did it to all my athletes. So all my bodybuilders and bikini athletes

Starting point is 00:15:34 and men's physique athletes, I made all of them fast. And I would, I'd just to disrupt that. Because they would be like, what? That goes against everything that I thought, and it's like, no. And then it really the proof is in the pudding. I do it and then let them feel it. It's like we could say here and talk all about the science and argue if it's a good strategy,

Starting point is 00:15:53 bad strategy all day. And I think depending on what side you're coming from and how well you're backed up by all your studies, you can probably make a decent argument for both sides. At the end of the day, watch, watch what happens. Trust me. I'm your coach, go through it, and you'll see how you feel, and they always do. And again, I do wanna say that the context

Starting point is 00:16:10 of our discussions is usually like life forever. So, if I'm advising someone who's like, I need to gain 10 pounds of mass in the next 10 weeks. I might not have you do a 72 hour fast in the middle of that. I mean, it depends, but probably not. But we're talking to like most people who want to do this for the rest of their life. And over that period of time of your life,

Starting point is 00:16:35 you want to slowly build muscle. And maybe if you're a hard gainer, you find, man, it's really hard. And I'm always trying to feed myself. And I'm always trying to eat more calories. And I seem to be stuck and I'm uncomfortable. And I know people right now, most people want to lose weight. This sounds kind of weird, but if you ever, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:48 talk to somebody where this is an actual issue, it's just a struggle for them too. It's like, I gotta eat another meal. I feel like I'm forced to eat them. That's just me all the time. I feel like I'm forced to eat them myself. The psychological benefits of a fast are also, you want to eat again.

Starting point is 00:17:01 And it doesn't feel like you're forced to eat again. Yeah, totally. And then the feeling afterwards and all that stuff. So fasting in that sense can definitely be used as a way to build muscle. But again, it's a powerful tool. And if your tendency is to restrict and that's your issue with food, the last thing I'm gonna have you do.

Starting point is 00:17:19 We're not recommend this. It's not eat. Yeah, I'm not gonna tell someone, don't eat, that's good for you. It's not. It's good for whoever it's good for. So I'm interested to see how you feel. Yeah, no, I mean, so far, so good. I actually feel pretty good on this one. This is the actually the longest technically I've gone. So I've done a 48 hours several times, definitely 24 hours, quite a few times. Never 72. So

Starting point is 00:17:40 this is my first 72. So at six o'clock tonight tonight it'll be officially 72 hours of of fasted for me and not bad. I I found The working was easier for me than at home. So I started on Sunday. Oh cuz you're busy Yeah, and and so being busy and staying active and doing and that's I mean They'll tell you that's like a better strategy because if you're kind of sitting around doing nothing It's real easily, but then there's that fine line to like I don't want to be like, I'm not training hard right now. I've done two trigger session days so far is what I've done. Oh, I'm glad you said that. Not a good idea to go hard. Yeah. Yeah. Fast thing. Yeah. I don't think that's a good idea. And I think that's, you know, and there is no, there, this has nothing to do with weight loss or aesthetics for me at all. It

Starting point is 00:18:21 has nothing to do. It's all about time. Because in fact, I've paired it with sex and weed. I don't know if I said them in the podcast or not. But yeah, I'm fasting from all three of those for me. And not because I even think I have a problem with any of the three. I think it's a good practice for myself. I like to exercise that in a while of something that I feel like that's consistent

Starting point is 00:18:41 or even distracting me. Or I'm like, if I take those three things out of my life, right now, there's a good portion of time that I spend either smoking weed, having sex or eating. So now it's open, it's opened up the space for me. And you know, I think originally I had this intent to like, oh, find times where I might meditate on it. So then I really haven't done that. But it's been a really nice thing for me

Starting point is 00:19:05 to just detach from eating completely. And I hadn't had the motivation to get really dialed in on my diet because I don't have this like aesthetic goal really right now and like it's just kind of like whatever, but I've been telling myself, oh, I really want to get back and like really, really dial and tie and I'm like,

Starting point is 00:19:22 I don't really care that much. Every time I just had that conversation, I'm like, you know what, let me detach from everything. And then let's see what comes from that. Let's see what I feel coming out of that. You know, it's funny about, so fasting can be done. I mean, fat, we talk about food,

Starting point is 00:19:33 but you can fast from lots of different things. If you ask yourself, like if you say to yourself, like, oh, should I fast from electronics? And you're like, hell no, that's probably something you should. Yeah, you know, it's the thing that you're like least likely to want to do. That's probably what we'll get a lot of the benefit. Speaking of food, by the way, I read this interesting article on insects. You know, have you guys been reading these articles about how they're talking about how

Starting point is 00:19:55 try to move in that direction? Yeah, they're trying to get us to consume more insects because it's environmentally sustainable. Yeah, it's better for the environment. Of course, animal rights lovers like it because insects aren't cute. So it's like, yeah, eat the bugs. Yeah, explain that to me.

Starting point is 00:20:10 Like, it just, it literally just, cause it'll have fur and, yeah. I mean, it, I think that's part of it. I think it's also, you know, the sustainability aspect and we could feed the world and they're high in protein and cultures of eating insects before and humans definitely have eaten insects. I mean, we went through most of human history where food was very scarce, so we ate whatever we could, including insects.

Starting point is 00:20:34 But I read this interesting article that I took a screenshot of it because it's not the panacea that they're promoting. So check this out. They did this big study on edible insects. So mealworms, crickets, cockroaches, and locusts. This is the most common edible insects. And is that because they're the most protein dense, right? They're protein dense, easy to raise. You know, you can make a lot of them.

Starting point is 00:20:59 So these are the target insects, right? And they found that parasites were detected on the target insects, right? And they found that parasites were detected on the edible insects on a whopping 81% of their samples. Now, these parasites that we can get as humans. Yes. Okay. Now, ready for this?

Starting point is 00:21:18 30% of those. So 81% take that out. And then let's look at the types of parasites, right? 30% of those samples were potentially pathogenic for humans. So like, it's not that easy, because you know, there's a lot of things we have to do with the meat that we now to prevent us from getting things

Starting point is 00:21:39 like parasites and illness and stuff. And sometimes stuff still happens. I don't know if you guys remember we were young, but you remember when Mad Cow disease was happening. Yeah, hit Taco Bell and stuff like that, right? Oh, well I know it was. Was that a big deal? Was that a tongue line?

Starting point is 00:21:53 It wasn't the UK. Yeah. And I know that, like apparently if you ate beef in England around that time, you can't even donate blood at time, whatever, because they still worried about it. Yeah. But anyway, so it still breaks out. That's huge, 81% periscite, and 30% of that.

Starting point is 00:22:10 Insane. Yeah, come on. So they're gonna have to figure that out. That's a big problem if you're trying to push. So then, how did companies, because remember when we first started, the podcast, we got some company trying to get us to promote the cricket chips or whatever.

Starting point is 00:22:22 Yeah. So how do companies like that, how are they handling that? Is there some sort of a process that they put the bugs through to make sure they don't or do we potentially try some? D.Y. Well, I think the more processed, the meat, the food will be the less likely, you'll probably have parasites that will survive that you can ingest. Although some of the eggs are like super tough, but if you take crickets and you dry them and

Starting point is 00:22:52 cook them and grind them into fine powder and then turn them into chips, you're probably less likely to get a parasite than if it was like more whole food, I guess. I personally, I only eat whole food. Yeah, crickets. I don't eat whole food. Crickets, I'm like, and then what you like and gives you nutrients for something that's gonna give you parents. Some countries are like a delicacy, aren't they?

Starting point is 00:23:14 Yeah, I've never, I've never eaten, have you guys ever eaten it? No. On purpose, never. Doug, I know you've been all over the world. Yeah, I've actually had grasshoppers before in Korea. Oh, you have. What was your thoughts? They're crispy and they were kind of,

Starting point is 00:23:30 I mean, did you go in for seconds or did you just try to just try it? No, I just tried a couple of them. So you could say you tried it. But when I was in, where was that? It was in Cambodia. People come up to the bus that we were in, and they had big trays full of, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:44 tarantulas and like Locus and that type of thing beetles Yeah, and one of the guys on the bus actually got some tarantulas and was chewing on them Kind of just you know that honestly, you know that spike so trip off this you know if you have a shellfish Yeah, allergy like let's say you know you eat shrimp or something to get allergic Yeah, you can't eat spiders the same. They're so closely related Yeah, so if they taste like that. See bugs. Yeah, you should be called have you looked at the crab lately? Yeah or a lobster Yeah, so this reminds me of so we had a couple crazy guys on our college football team and this

Starting point is 00:24:26 one specifically Kyle, he was from Kansas and he was just like, Kyle from Kansas. Just screws loose dude. This guy's the best player in our team, all American, literally he was like maybe like 180, but would just take like a 360 pounder just flat on his back. Like he would just hit him and then he falls back. And I was like, this kid is just powerful. And he just, again, like, I don't know, like back in the day, you'd probably call him like berserkers.

Starting point is 00:24:55 You know, he always had like a couple guys you put on the front because they're just like foaming at the mouth and like, blah. So at one time before one of our games, he was like trying to kind of pump us up. We had found this praying mantis that was literally like this big and somebody caught it and then Kyle grabs it, bites its head off and then just starts chewing on it and eating

Starting point is 00:25:17 it and it's thorax and everything just like, this thing's sticking out, just dripping down his face. And I remember just like, I was just like in shock. I was like, oh my god, like what? I bet you guys played some football. I've never. Yeah. God. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:35 He's crazy, dude. No, no, thanks. I don't even imagine with that taste of love. You know, the feed the world issue where people like we need more food to feed the world. You know, we have enough food. You know what the food to feed the world. We have enough food. The problem is distribution. It's markets. We need more efficient and more open markets in other parts of the world so that the food

Starting point is 00:25:55 can get there. How much food we throw away in America alone? Oh, so wastefully. And how much excess we are going to eat? Are we in the United States, are we actually adding more farms, like are more people starting to farm, you know? It's becoming more common.

Starting point is 00:26:14 We're more efficient. So we get more out of an acre than we ever did before. And I believe, and maybe Doug, you need to check this out. What I'm more curious about is, is there more people that are doing like what Justin did where they get their own chicken? Oh, you need to check it out. What I'm more curious about is, as there are more people that are doing, like, what Justin did, where they get their own chicken. Oh, I hear your sign. Yeah, like, cause I mean,

Starting point is 00:26:30 I just didn't think I thought, yeah. Cause we, I mean, if, honestly, if everybody had a, that had a big enough plot of land, which doesn't take very much for chickens and some vegetables and some other. We have hydroponics now too, which helps. Yeah, if everybody kind of grew their own stuff, we would be completely fine.

Starting point is 00:26:47 It's the mass producing that is so bad, right? Actually, you know how much energy. A factory form. Yeah, you know how much energy goes into growing enough food to feed your, there's a reason why we do it the way we do. Because it allows us to specialize and be more efficient at other things. Growing food and actually feeding your family with it and having animals, that's a lot of energy that you go in to get only so many calories. Like anybody who's ever grown a garden, it's like,

Starting point is 00:27:16 usually it's like supplementing their diet. Like my dad, his whole backyard, old school society. I get what you're saying. Like the math of like the amount of labor it goes into I get what you're saying, like the math of like the amount of labor it goes into getting the, you know, Bell peppers and tomatoes with your own soil and it's like, I guess you have a little bit more control over like the quality. You do. That's the plus side. Yeah, but my point is I'm off from like a Calibre perspective. I the amount of effort and work in labor that goes into growing sort of moot. Yeah. We would not be able to progress very much as a society if everybody had to grow their own

Starting point is 00:27:50 food. It's just too much energy goes in, too much effort. It's very innovative. The truth is though, we could probably handle a calorie deficit for a while. Let's be honest. This is true. Yeah, let's be honest. We could afford to be a little less efficient for a while.

Starting point is 00:28:03 Dude, you know what's funny? There was a study that came out of Venezuela. Yeah, calories like making your own fuel. This is kind of sad. So Venezuela right went full like crazy socialism, whatever. And then there was this article that came out so while I go that the average Venezuelan lost 15 pounds ever since so and so and so and it's like yeah, but not because they're trying to go to diet. It's so starving. Did you guys see the article that Amber Cromby or Amber Cromby?

Starting point is 00:28:27 How are you saying? Yeah. Oh, they did. Yeah, did you see it? It was a backlash over huge backlash. Yeah. So it's a massage model. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:36 Amber, Amber Cromby, I know last time everybody was giving me shit about how you say it. Fuck off. Deletes after tweet storm over normalizing obesity. And I guess they pulled it down after it went up, but they they had this. fuck off, deletes after tweet storm over normalizing obesity. And I guess they pulled it down after it went up, but they they had this, and I thought it was on their Instagram. So it might still be on their Instagram. I don't know if Doug can look up.

Starting point is 00:28:54 Wow, is that a sign that this is now, I mean, the market is now kind of a fashion back. The irony of that company of all companies, though, to do that, like they pushed extreme to the one direction and now that it's like, that's just come on. I think the reality is that it's complete version.

Starting point is 00:29:11 When it seems novel and cool, then it might be effective, but consumers, remember the market follows what consumers pay for. So I know sometimes we look at ads and stuff like look what they're trying to promote and push on us And I get that some companies will do that But ultimately like if people aren't buying your stuff you ain't gonna advertise that way So you know you want to see companies Invest in the climate you give the money that to the companies that do that and if that's not making the money

Starting point is 00:29:39 They can virtue signal. I want companies like I do Just from like you know promoting like, anorexic to then somewhat, normal to then like more normal looking people to now, it's like obese to now like morbidly obese. And it's like, whoa, like, to me, it's like a shock value thing. It's really all that amounts to. Yeah, I'm torn right now on whether it is smart or not,

Starting point is 00:30:07 from a business perspective, right? Like I'm torn, because I think it's a terrible idea. I mean, I think so too, but the reality of it is, I wouldn't be talking about them right now if it was for that. I hear what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? And in that game, right?

Starting point is 00:30:23 So you think the weather, the bad publicity is good publicity, right? I mean, because- Well, there's always, however, if you make this group mad, you're probably making this- That's been hit so many times, man. I feel like the market is so tireless shit.

Starting point is 00:30:35 Like, you see right through it. Well, then you know what it'll happen. That's the side of the market that you agree with. Yeah, the side of the market is like, sound same. Yeah, but you know what'll happen when that happens? Is the next advertising fad will be normal. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:30:48 Hey, come buy our stuff. We're normal. That'll be weird. You know, like, whoa, that's crazy. Did you see the model they had on there? They were like normal, you know, and healthy. I think normal is such a bad term, right? Because it's just like, who wants to be,

Starting point is 00:31:01 nobody wants to be normal. If you actually look at the dictionary, you know what normal is, well, I mean, that's the irony of it, right? It's like, like, who wants to be nobody wants to be normal? If you actually look at the dictionary, what normal is, I mean, that's the irony of it, right? It's like, like, like, our advertising has to be authentic. You know, it's like, well, how do you do that? And I mean, I think, and I think the, the case is that, you know, they're an example of they went so extreme, right? They were 100% selling sex and these, you know, crazy models shirts off and like it was all that direction. And now it's going the,

Starting point is 00:31:23 the opposite direction. And so, you know, like I always say, I think that it's like a pendulum, and I think we'll land somewhere in the middle, but it is interesting to me. I wish I had more detail about the numbers, like on how effective it potentially is. You've got to think if you are a part of, you know, putting that out there, that you think about it before you do, it's not like you're just so like, oh, where's it? Like you know what you're doing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:46 Well, you know you were going, you were a company just a decade ago. I like to see where Gillette is these days. Oh, and I'm on the guy's look. I'm on the guy's look. Because here's the thing, like they literally shamed their customer base. Like and they're trying to tell men how shitty they are and how they need to do better. So I agree with you, Justin, but this is why I'm curious to where I would not be surprised.

Starting point is 00:32:08 We'll see if they're doing justice. I mean, I thought I did hurt them. Maybe because it hurt them a lot, but maybe they rebounded and then they, you know, it actually catapulted them. I don't know, but I would hope not. Yeah, it's, again, it just reflects the consumer. So it just cracks me up because whenever I see ads and trends,

Starting point is 00:32:25 okay, obviously the consumer base is showing them that that's what they want until they don't. Until the consumer base is over. Yeah, speaking of trends or that, you know, it's pumpkin spice time. Oh, you know, your eggs and... You always know, you just put on like Instagram and all of a sudden all the pictures

Starting point is 00:32:42 are come out with a little phone and a lot of things. Let me ask you this question. When did this become a thing? Because when we were kids, pumpkin spice wasn't a thing. Starbucks. Was it Starbucks that started? I'm pretty sure, could you look it up Doug? I'm sorry, I got you all over the place right now.

Starting point is 00:32:55 I'm pretty sure that maybe Andrew can look that one up for me. I'm pretty sure that Starbucks was responsible for that big movement. Yeah, well they. And Britney Spears is the UGS. Yeah, well. So Britney Spears probably liked pumpkin spots. I'm gonna surely, there's some, you know, there's some like little coffee shop people

Starting point is 00:33:11 that are like, no, like it was ours. It was ours. It was the first one. It's the first one. Yeah, I'll tell them. Yeah, but hipster is like, you know, just throwing their age. Start of next to 2003. There you go.

Starting point is 00:33:23 That was it. Yeah. It reminds me of my dad, like, my dad always, in Italian, somehow always invented every Throw in there. Start about to be here. 2003. There you go. That's it. Reminds me of my dad. My dad always, in Italian, somehow always invented everything first. If I was saying that, I just went, God, I'm proud. He cracks me up. He's like, you know, Henry Ford, right? Everybody thinks he's, you know, well, you know it was an Italian that did it first.

Starting point is 00:33:40 You know, you know who invented math? Or whatever, come on, dad. I got a friend that like always, dude, you guys who invented math, you know, or whatever. Like, come on, dad. Oh, I got a friend that like always like, dude, you guys remember I had that idea. It's like the guy that has an idea of everybody, every, you know, anything. Actually, because this is anything. But I'm gonna admit, I love pumpkin spice flavor.

Starting point is 00:33:58 I love the smell. I love the flavor. I get it, man. It's tasty. Organified does their stuff. Yeah, as it says, that means that that means it's organic, right? Bro, so almond milk, amazing. Ever since Doug tasty. Organified does their yeah, that means that means organifies his back, right bro So almond milk amazing ever since Doug got me on the macadamia nut milk kick. Oh, bro

Starting point is 00:34:11 You warm up the macadamia milk at the pumpkin spice organified gold at night On I it's so delicious. It's so delicious. And then of course if you know Yeah, I just picture you drinking that watching sports No, I just can't like my first ball It's the iron I just I can't drink nut milk for principle. Yeah I'm not like squeeze a little you know It just serves it to you with the strong. Speaking of other languages, you just reminded that when you told you

Starting point is 00:34:48 your time was your dad in Italy and stuff like that. So I saw this post from Sam Parry. Remember Sam Parry? He's the founder of the hustle. Yeah, right. We had a show a long time ago. He was talking about this guy who he knows, who has, this is a hustle. He makes like $60,000

Starting point is 00:35:07 a month doing this. He sells like how to get like how to get chicks or whatever books, but he has it. He gets writers in the Philippines to rewrite it in other languages and sells it to others. He takes like a top selling book here in the US on how to pick up women. He hires somebody in the Philippines to basically some Don Juan. To rewrite it using all the main points. Cause they haven't heard it yet over there.

Starting point is 00:35:37 They've been talking. And he makes, and it's like a constant side. See all these like Filipino dudes with like magician hats. Oh, what's the thing? What was that guy's name? like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like,

Starting point is 00:35:49 I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like,

Starting point is 00:35:57 I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like, it's like, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's probably always that guy that's pretty cool. It is because he's more than he thought about that.

Starting point is 00:36:05 So I've been saying that, we've been saying this on the podcast a few times. I do it in the NCI coaching. I've told the people this before, but America largely is first with the fitness trends. And then it tends to go to other countries. And I've been telling people this for a long time. If you just took the trends from America when they first come out and you translate them to Spanish and you put them out, you'll be first to market and you'll crush.

Starting point is 00:36:30 I've been telling people that for a long time. I hope somebody does it. For a bunch of idiots for not doing it for my pump, we know. Well, I was just gonna say, somebody doesn't do it. And then I'll leave eyes in the Beatles. Russia, that's like, Hey, you want some other trends, here's a trend. Doug, look up Sniff spots

Starting point is 00:36:47 On images there goes my Google no, no, it's not anything bad. It's anything bad I don't know if you guess this any guesses on what it is. It's a business. Oh, it's a business Yeah, you want to me exploding business. Wait, so has nothing to do scratch and sniff Nothing at all. Oh, so it's a business. Yes. Let me guess. Is it a Roman therapy? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, rent these spaces. People lease out their yards, they trick their yards out. They come into accommodate dogs and stuff like that. And then you pay to basically use it, lease it for a period of time. Do you have to take care of the dog and stuff too?

Starting point is 00:37:35 Your dog, your dog goes to, I would, no I'm saying, what if I have a space and I want to put it up like Airbnb, can I rent my space out to other people? Does that mean I take care of them? How does it work? No, you don't go to take care of it. You just open it up to them. Yeah, you just open it up like Airbnb. Can I rent my space out to other people? Does that mean I take care of them? How does it work? No, you don't go take care of them. No, open it up to them.

Starting point is 00:37:48 Yeah, you just open it up to them. You're just basically allowing them access. You're gonna do nothing. So if you have the, if you have the land, it's kind of like that one that other shared space one that I told you guys about that, where if you have like a garage and you don't use it or a space in a garage even you can actually.

Starting point is 00:38:02 This is so brilliant. I know, it's more like that. You know why it's brilliant too? There's a lot of people out there that would benefit like the elderly and stuff who have space, who would benefit from being around animals in the city. But don't want to take care of them,

Starting point is 00:38:13 maybe they can't or whatever. But also this Airbnb and these types of apps, you want to talk about efficiency of space use. Yeah, yeah. Like every, we're learning how to utilize every piece of space, right? That's really cool. Wow, so you can, so if I have a yard, what I would do is I could put it up there. Yep.

Starting point is 00:38:33 And it's basically, you can use it and it's hands off for me. You just pay me to keep your dog or your chickens or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's by the hour or whatever. I don't know, is that what it is done? Yeah, per hour. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's by the hour or whatever. I don't know. Is that what it is? Yeah, per hour. Yeah, per hour. And you know, where it makes sense is if you have this decent space, I mean, I have a yard is like this. It doesn't get used, right? That's what made me kind of

Starting point is 00:38:53 think it was a cool idea. It was just like, man, this huge backyard depends $10 an hour, $15 an hour. Some of you are like, if you accommodate that, if you make your yard like a cool dog park with tonal horse, like cool stuff. Like some people have done that. There's one that's $48 an hour per dog. Oh wow, yeah. This is per hour. Yeah, per hour. Oh wow, so this is where they have to be there

Starting point is 00:39:17 with their dog though. It's just like a dog park. Yeah, Kabe think about this, which sounds like weird to you guys because you guys probably all have a dog park nearby. But there's a lot of areas where there's not dog parks anywhere near us. So if you live in like a suburb where you have all these houses,

Starting point is 00:39:29 but somebody has like a decent sized backyard and you decide, say, I'm going to convert it into this dog park because I never use it. And then people can have access to it by the hour. I have, so I have buddies that don't even, they live in the city up in San Francisco. They don't own cars because when you live in the city, like just parking your cars in a class of 500 bucks a month,

Starting point is 00:39:46 you never drive it. But obviously a lot of our families down here in San Jose, they rent cars to come down and go back up. Every time cars. They never go through a traditional rental. It's these apps. And it's literally some dude owns a car, doesn't use it. And you...

Starting point is 00:40:01 We're using that app for Hawaii right now. So we're getting ready to go to Hawaii and it's, I can't even think of the name of it right now. The most popular one starts with a V. Is it's a V that starts with a V? Yeah, I don't know. No, Turo, thank you. Sorry, you didn't help me, but yes.

Starting point is 00:40:12 Thank you. I was thinking myself there. I was thinking myself there. Yeah, Turo. Turo is like that where it's like other people who own cars basically running. And we get like a really nice car for way cheaper than going through like your traditional like car rental.

Starting point is 00:40:27 Now, when do they do that? Check your credit score and all that stuff. No, you have insurance and you have like, no, we don't have a credit score or check on that. It's just like you would if you were to go rent from, you know, what's the traditional ones we use all the time. So I had a, so one of my, again, one of my buddies who did this did the math.

Starting point is 00:40:46 There was a, I don't remember what the car was, but you know, I have everyone so I'll have a car dealership or not dealership company will come out with like this crazy lease deal. Like, lease the new Honda, whatever, for a, you know, a hundred bucks a month, right? Base model, whatever. He's like, bro, I could lease this,

Starting point is 00:40:59 he did the math. He's like, I could lease this car for a hundred bucks a month. Oh, arbitrage. And then I could go and do this. People do that. It's car arbitrage. And then I could go and do this. People do that. That's car arbitrage. And he's like, I could cash flow four, five hundred bucks a month off this. And then just multiply that.

Starting point is 00:41:12 And I'm like, huh, that could be a total. So people, it's arbitrage and they do that with the houses and they do that with cars. I was actually talking to my buddy who does all the custom work to my cars and stuff. And he was saying that he's got a guy right now. It's a dangerous time to do that right now. Right? Because one of the first things that people will sort of cut back on is like driving like some of these exotic cool cars, and the guy's got like a fleet of like

Starting point is 00:41:29 seven different like sick cars, that's what he does, is he basically leases them, and then he turns around and rents them out to people by the day or by the hour. And makes good money. And you just make good money. Yes, people make good money doing that. And there's a total business in that. But again, imagine you got, imagine you got six Lamborghini leases

Starting point is 00:41:48 and it's popping like the last three years or whatever to be able to do this is everybody's making money or printing money. But then also when we hit like a recession, you're screwed. And you're screwed in a three year lease on some of these single lambo. You're like, oh shit.

Starting point is 00:42:02 You know, $4,000. Yeah, yeah. So definitely, I mean, there's definitely obviously a little risk to it, but yeah, that's a total strategy that people use. All right, so I'm going to change gears a little bit. I'm super excited. This is, for me, super, it's exciting and humbling

Starting point is 00:42:18 at the same time. So I've had the opportunity to work with some of our sponsors and influence kind of how they formulate some of the products, but I really had a huge influence over a new product from from Ned. So the guys at Ned, first off, by the way, was it you that sent that article? The ink 500. Doug, pull it, pull it, is it, was it ink 500?

Starting point is 00:42:37 One of the fastest growing small companies. Did you double check, Doug? Yes, it's a 364 of the ink 5000. Okay, it was ink 5000. But 300, so it's 364 of the Inc. 5000. Okay, it was Inc. 5000. But 300, so the number 364, what the fastest growing private companies. Wow.

Starting point is 00:42:51 So we started working with, how many years ago? Yeah. Wow. Probably four or at least. Four or five, yeah. They were a small company. I remember I got on the phone with the two of them. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:01 And it was, at the time, we were getting bombarded with with CBD products and I know the science behind CBD and all that stuff But you try them you don't feel anything like this is really have CBD. Does it have enough? What's going on anyway? Ned I mean the reason why we work with them is their integrity They know what they're talking about you try the product you totally feel it anyway Fast forward I get on the phone with them this must must have been, I want to say six months ago, and they're like, hey, we want to talk with you about potentially creating a new product. Do you have any ideas?

Starting point is 00:43:31 I'm like, dude, can I tell you guys right now, what are my favorite ways to use your hemp oil? Is I'll use it and I'll combine it with other compounds for creativity, mental boost. Like basically like a pre-workout but for my mind. Yeah. Yeah. So, we sat, so they said, well, what do you want it?

Starting point is 00:43:49 Let's talk about this. And I said, well, I'd like a higher amount of CBC. So, that's a type of cannabinoid that's been shown in studies to actually promote neural growth and connection in the brain, very interesting brain, healthy cannabinoid, lion's mane, I'm like, I want lion's mane in there, and some other stuff that we talked about, Ginko for blood flow of the brain. Anyway, they made their product, and that was the one we all tried. When did we try it like a month ago? Yeah, a little month ago.

Starting point is 00:44:17 Yes. We should have branded it. You didn't even think about that. It's what happens when I'm not involved in this. Yeah. I just fucking forgot. I gave him all the goods. Yes, it sounds just what's the cool drug. He's like, oh my god, he's so exciting. What the big is. I'm not involved in this. I can't believe it. I can't believe it.

Starting point is 00:44:26 Sounds like a cool drug. Oh my god, he's so exciting. What's our brand on here, bro? What do they call it, Doug? What are they naming it? Brain blend. CBG, CBD and CBG. CBG is like the master cannabinoid gets converted to other cannabinoids.

Starting point is 00:44:42 CBD, we know about that. CBC, cannabacromine. So you can look this up if you want to learn a little bit about cannabinoids. CBD, we know about that. CBC, cannabis cromine. So you can look this up if you want to learn a little bit about cannabinoids, very fascinating science. But it's got some like brain boosting effects. And every time I've ever used, very hard to find, by the way, when I've used things that were higher in CBD, CBC, and I combine it with things like Lyons, Maine,

Starting point is 00:45:01 if you want to have fun, you can throw some caffeine in there, some other stuff. I mean, I get like this creative, it's really not interesting. It's not interesting. Explain to me why, if, why would I take that instead of just doing the full spectrum, which has all of that in it.

Starting point is 00:45:16 This is also full spectrum, but what they've done is they've bred some of the plants or found some of the plants that are higher percentages of certain cannabinoids. So like for example, CBN is more sedative, more like makes you go to sleep. CBC has got these kind of brain boosting effects. So they'll take the plants, look at the breakdown, because CBD is still the predominant cannabinoid and that's kind of what you want.

Starting point is 00:45:42 Okay, I get it now. So just the blended. It's just like when you would, like we used to breed like Harlequin because it was very high CBD and OTHC. So it's still full spectrum. Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 00:45:52 That's what I was, I didn't know. It just has more sea, it's got, those are the, the Canabinoids at that point. And then you've also added Lions mains. Lions mains. It's got Ginkgo, it's got some Jinxing, go to Cola, oh there he goes, Bacopa.

Starting point is 00:46:06 So these are all things that have been shown. So glad we had to talk about it now. We tried it and it was like fire. I was like, oh man, like that energy and like the, I don't know, it's like a, we're like a happier feeling too, that you had. I don't wanna oversell it or sound crazy,

Starting point is 00:46:21 but it's literally a euphoric creative feeling. Yeah, and it's like it long. It lasted a pretty long time. You both were all, but the verdict's not out for me. Like I only had that one opportunity to use it. And I was like, it definitely wasn't bad. I definitely felt good in that podcast, but I don't know if I felt. God, I wish we had to know the sample because I know.

Starting point is 00:46:39 Out of the past. I know, I know. I was thinking the same thing. I actually was looking over here because I thought we might have had another one laying around. I was like, oh, this would be a was like oh this would be a good store and make your own I mean if it's release we should be getting cases of it soon then right? I mean it they're official. I don't know they were launching all right. That was quick Yeah, it was sample was not long ago when they sent it over to us

Starting point is 00:47:00 I still haven't even had the their other flavor of mellow yet I've been so stuck on the the lavender berry and the and the naked so much that I have Another flavor. Yeah, they have like a lemon a lemon Like some citrus. Yeah, I get citrus or lemon one. Oh, okay. Yeah, I've heard people say it's really good too So I haven't even messed with that one yet. I hear it's really good. Yeah, that's a staple now for us Is a drink at night? I mean you see me over here at M'm already, I'm always taking our stuff. Oh, is that where it's going?

Starting point is 00:47:27 Yeah, yeah. I'm just gonna fight over all this stuff. Anyway, I wanted to bring up, I brought this guy up before on the podcast and the Kettlebell Kings posted a video of him again and Justin, you know I'm talking about. I don't remember his name, maybe we could dug him, find him.

Starting point is 00:47:42 Yeah, let's look at his name, so we did. Who it it? Bro. All the credit he deserves. So he was a Russian kettlebell sportsman. Okay. In this video's from the 70's I'm gonna say? I had no idea, especially back then.

Starting point is 00:47:55 I had no idea anybody's messing with kettlebells. Valentin decoodle. Yeah, well kettlebells, I mean, the Russians have been using forever. Right, but like juggling them, like that. Okay, so how much did they kettlebell weigh? That he was juggling? You got to pull it up on 72 kilograms.

Starting point is 00:48:09 No, I mean, no. Yes. No, he's juggling a 72 kilograms. Yeah, 72 kilograms. 75 kilograms. There you go. Doug, maybe pull up your, I want to see you do this. Pull up a video of the sky.

Starting point is 00:48:20 I've seen people do it, even with like 20 and 30s and it's really cool. Yeah, no, no, no, this isn't that. That fan, this isn't cute. This is my, this is my, this is my, this is eight. I've never tried so I've seen people do it even with like 20 and 30's and it's really cool. Yeah, no, no, this isn't that fan This isn't cute. This is like he just ate you've ever tried to do that. I've tried to do it. It is Hell hard. No, it's hard, but it That's the thing there's levels dude. This guy is a phenom no Doug. I just I just put I just 150 pound kettlebell more than that right?

Starting point is 00:48:42 60 something pat look at look how he throws it. This he's and he doesn't look smooth. He doesn't look like this huge beast of a man. But that is a 160 pound kettlebell and he throws him in the air. That ball right there that he's jugged that he's like rolling around his body. That also is like 150 pounds. He's catching on his neck. He's throwing it. Look at that with his head. What? Of child's play, dude.

Starting point is 00:49:08 What a monster. He's making sense. So you know what trips me out? I don't know that. I think I've seen clips of this guy before. I didn't know it was that heavy of a way. That's insane. Yeah, you know what's insane about this?

Starting point is 00:49:17 To me, it's not the juggling, the 160 pound kettlebell is definitely crazy. You just dropped it. You can't hold it. Yeah. The part that's crazy to me is this grip. Yeah. You ever swing or try to swing away like a kettlebell,

Starting point is 00:49:31 your grip wants to let go. Sure. Like how does he hold that? Well that would rip like 90% of people's shoulders right out of their socks. Just try to do that. Like rip my now. I can't imagine trying to do that.

Starting point is 00:49:42 So just to control and the constant tension, he can put his buy through. How heavy is our big birth out here? Well, how heavy is that one? It's like 105, I think. I think it's fine, bro, that's fine. That's hard to lift. But just let's swing.

Starting point is 00:49:56 Deadlift, 150 pound, one kettlebell with, excuse me, a dumbbell with one hand. Just try and hold on to it and stand up with it. Don't even deadlift it. Actually, take it off the rack. See if you can hold the one hand. Most people, strong people wouldn't be able to do it. Is this guy past, is that a long time ago?

Starting point is 00:50:10 Yeah, I guess, 1970. That's crazy that no one's tried to do this again. There's no new person. Yeah, it's like in this crazy circus act that imagine a few is on one of those TV shows on Fox. What's that one? America's got talent, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:25 We crush everybody, dude, come on. Well, all right. I'm surprised somebody hasn't tried to do it. If you're into, like if anybody watching, listening right now, if you're into this kind of stuff, you look up old-time, strength feats or old-time strongmen. Yeah. And these are confirmed, some of the lifts

Starting point is 00:50:41 that some of these people did back before, I mean, this was the 1970 1970s I'm talking about like Before protein powders were invented let alone anabolic steroids. Mm-hmm some of these feats were like one arm bent press with 300 pounds, you know 180 pound strong man. I think Eugene Sandoff. I'm not mistaken. It's something like a in Saying it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't get how they were so strong. Do you remember the guy's name that just recently passed Bud? Oh.

Starting point is 00:51:10 He was a strong man, but he did unconventional lifts and like he did it out in his backyard. That's right, he did die, dude. He was amazing, yeah. He just totally like, not that popular, but like, and was one of the strongest to do the episode. Did you think he was do it on the grass?

Starting point is 00:51:25 On the grass? No shodon and like you'd like like I didn't know he died. Yeah, I was total bomber man. He did so much for the community and everything. Supposedly really good guy. Yeah. Yeah. I tell you guys when I met Bill Kazmire, you know he is. So he won, I think I'm saying his name right. He was a world strongest man competitor. I think in the early 80s, if you see a picture of him, you'll recognize him. I met him when he was...

Starting point is 00:51:48 Jeffery, so that, yeah, was Jeffery. So Bill Kazmeyer, I think it's Bill, he... I met him when he was I want to say 70, so he's already like older man or whatever, and this was at a fitness convention. Yeah. And he was, you know, shaking hands or whatever. And he had a whole bunch of frying pans around him. Cause roll up trick. Okay, so I saw him roll one up. And I'm like, well, I know he's strong. I've seen this guy nursing that in real life. I've seen this guy from Pete, okay, but he's 70.

Starting point is 00:52:17 I'm like, let me see how thick these, like, that way there's a real frying pan or like whatever. And I grabbed it and I'm like, oh no, this is a legit frying pan. And then he grabbed it and he rolled it up like a piece of paper. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, he like, like a little baby. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:32 Like his fingers, like I did not break your fingers doing that. So crazy. So crazy. Hey, what's up everybody? Real quick look, at the beginning of the podcast, we talked about fasting and its potential benefits, but also its potential downfalls.

Starting point is 00:52:45 So we realized, hey, we should give people access, discounted access to our fasting guides. So if you have any questions about fasting, the way it is to do it, the way is not to do it, our intermittent fasting guide, we're gonna put 50% off right now, again, because we had that conversation. So if you're interested, go to mapsfitinistproducts.com,

Starting point is 00:53:03 click on the intermittent fasting guide, and then use the code IF50 for 50% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Frank from Montana. Frank, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? Thanks for taking my question. I really appreciate it. And I also wanted to thank you guys for all of your parenting wisdom and stories because I'm a dad myself have two sons so it's always appreciated to hear your stories and adventures with your kids so I really appreciate that. Awesome right on. So my question is about CrossFit style workouts.

Starting point is 00:53:47 I started CrossFit about 11 years ago and have been engaged in some sort of fitness activity for the last 20 plus years. I started out training, training, and found CrossFit about 11 years ago and he kind of changed my perception of fitness and what I could do. And I really like a mental component to it and how it's, you know, achieving doing something hard and fabricating that adversity and mental toughness. So about two years ago, I suffered a shoulder injury and I know it was from CrossFit and just the intensity level that I was going at. And that's when I found you guys in Mind Pump, and I sort of dialed it back and started doing some of your programming. I did hit, I did anabolic, and I did maps resistance, I think,

Starting point is 00:54:36 but kind of off and on, never really stuck with any of them other than hit. So I recently started doing crossfit style workouts again as my shoulders kind of healed. And I'm finding that it's much easier for me to get into the gym and get motivated doing these functional fitness style workouts as opposed to strength training stuff. So I wanted to get your guys take on, I mean, my question was phrases, how do I do crossfit the mind pump way? And I know that the answer is probably you can't. No, there's an answer to that. There's an answer to that. Did you know that we actually wrote a program in response to CrossFit? As a performance. Yeah, that's right. That's

Starting point is 00:55:17 exact. That, that, that, that the origin of that, that program was we came out on one of the first episodes, it's the first 10 episodes titled, Why Mind Pomp Doesn't Crossfit. We started a ball kinds of controversy and shit. Crossfit reached out and tried to threaten us over some stuff. So we did Crossfit part two just because we're assholes like that. And then what we got as feedback from our audience was,

Starting point is 00:55:40 hey, we hear you guys kind of bashing Crossfit. Well, what if we like the intensity aspect, what if we like the mental aspect that I get from it? What if I like all these? And they said, you know, what would you guys do for somebody who likes all those things, but program it more effectively? And that is the birth of maps performance. A lot of those exercises, functional exercises that, you know, a lot of crossfitters love are in there. The thing is, it's just the arrangement of it all. The workouts, the rest periods, the focus, the intent of it, a little more specific. So in terms of like not

Starting point is 00:56:21 being so much of a circuit style training, but we're more trying to achieve a very specific type of an adaptation because if you can kind of parse out a lot of the elements of CrossFit which, and I've probably been one of the more vocal ones in opposition to CrossFit just because it just muddies a lot of what I love about training as well like something that I think that you're drawn to in terms of you know performance style training. It's different than bodybuilding and what you find in conventional gyms and unconventional lifts and all these things that kind of brought me into that realm So this is why we created that just to put a little more specificity back in the mix. So that way you take your body through

Starting point is 00:57:10 these types of workouts to focus a little bit more intensively on multi-planar type training, for instance, or endurance or power specific movements. Just so that way you give your body a chance to learn it and get proficient in it, and then that carries into the next type of a workout that you're going to do following that. So, maths performance, I would say,

Starting point is 00:57:38 is probably the best thing. Look, Frank, if your question is, how do I do CrossFit and get better at CrossFit, my answer's gonna be go do CrossFit, okay? If your question is, hey man, I need challenging, hard, painful workouts in order to motivate myself. Well then I have two answers for you. One is the one that you need to hear,

Starting point is 00:57:59 the other one's the one that you're gonna like. Okay, so what you need to hear is work on mobility, work on control and stability, work on multi-plane your movements to maps performance. The one that you're gonna like is gonna be like maps hit or maps OCR, something where you're gonna go out, beat yourself up and I read you your question that you wrote into us, you said in the question,

Starting point is 00:58:20 if you don't mind me, reading some parts of it, that you were a moderately successful wrestler in your youth. I'm very familiar with wrestling, and a big part of it is enduring the pain, and the suffering of the practice, and the training, and the mental discipline. Now, here's a challenge with that.

Starting point is 00:58:37 You found success with that. It kind of became a part of your fabric, now you're an adult, and I've trained a lot of ex-athletes. It's very hard to find the will to train your body when the way you learn how to train was as a competitive athlete. It's very hard, but I'm gonna tell you something right now.

Starting point is 00:58:56 And this is just side note, if you don't fix this in yourself, this constant desire need to beat yourself up and I can't get motivated unless I go to the gym and climb a mountain every single time, your body is gonna eventually make you stop So you're not whether you listen to me or not your shoulder injury with step one, okay? So that was like that was like sign number one, okay? You're gonna get more signs and they're gonna get louder and you're gonna get into this position where either you're gonna stop

Starting point is 00:59:23 Because you can't anymore or you're gonna be like this position where either you're gonna stop because you can't anymore, or you're gonna be like, okay, I got a reinvent how I view exercise and training myself. Now there's nothing wrong with challenging yourself, there's nothing wrong with that, okay, you just got to be smart about it, and you can't worship the altar of pain anymore because you're not gonna get away with it. Plus you got other stuff that's more important anyway, you got a job, you got kids, and you probably don't have the luxury of being able to, you know, meet with other competitive outlets out there too, and to, you know, kind of reiterate. So, like training for those types of competitive outlets, I look at CrossFit, it's a crazy sport. It's

Starting point is 01:00:00 insane, you know, and there's a way that you could do a master formance or be a little more specific as to what you need to focus on going into improve your overall performance in the CrossFit realm. However, that's pretty difficult because they throw the entire kitchen sink at you. But finding if it really is about the competitiveness and challenging yourself and your body to build your body up and go through that process and then, you know, allow yourself to perform at events and do things like that, I think would be a healthier option. Yeah. Now, I'm going to challenge you a little bit here, Frank, because by the way, I know you're

Starting point is 01:00:40 on the call right now, so it's going to be directed at you. But this is extremely common. Okay, so I hear this all the time from people like yourself and that's that they go, look, I love the challenge. That's what I fall in love with. I love that it's hard. And my answer to that is bullshit because the real challenge for you is not doing that. Okay, it's easy for you to go beat yourself up. And what you're trying to say is, hey, how can I do this thing that I like so much? It's easy for me. So the real up and what you're trying to say is hey, how can I do this thing that I like so much? It's easy for me So the real challenge if you really like challenge is you be figuring out how to change gears a little bit

Starting point is 01:01:10 Okay, so if you really want to challenge yourself and you really want to see growth in all aspects physical and mental and really start to figure this out for yourself I would follow maps performance to a T. I wouldn't add anything to it. I wouldn't ramp up the intensity. I wouldn't sign up for a race or do something crazy while you're doing it. I would follow it to a T, trust the process at the end of it, then see how you feel, see how everything works out. And I believe at the end of it,

Starting point is 01:01:37 there'll be a transformation. I wanna make something clear to the audience that's listening right now, Tika. Sometimes when we have these conversations that we've had similar to this one, people think that we're like, anti-intensity, anti-pushing the mental fortitude, anti those things when it's like, no, that's built into maps performance. Trust me, you'll get to phase four. You'll get to end in phase two, there's some areas

Starting point is 01:01:58 there. So there's there's elements of that program. It's the worship of those things. Exactly. That's where people get, they go wrong with this modality of training as they fall in love with that aspect of it and they marry it and they never leave it until their body forces them to. And so when we wrote maps for formats, it's like we really took all this information feedback from people like, what do you love about CrossFit? What are these things? And we wanted to give you all of those attributes that you love in a program, but program it

Starting point is 01:02:29 in a way that doesn't get you in these ruts or stuck in this one way of. Or injure. Yes. And so we address that in that program. So it's, it really was designed for the person that is drawn to that way of training. But like Sal said, the most challenging part for you is going to be the mental aspect. And because you have that athletic background and gear, it's easy for you to turn that on where it's going to be hard is knowing

Starting point is 01:02:57 when, oh, this is a, this is a phase in this program where I'm supposed to turn that off. And now I'm supposed to slow things down and pause. And because there's like, there's pause squats. I mean, there's stuff in the program where you, and I know that CrossFit does program some pause squats. So it's not like I'm saying they don't. But there's a different mentality going into all the phases of performance that aren't the same

Starting point is 01:03:19 as the way you train in CrossFit. If you don't have that program, Frank, we'll send that to you, okay? Yeah, I don't have it. That's much appreciated. I hear what you guys are saying. The shoulder injury kind of woke me up, and I'm not a CrossFit fanboy. I work out and we have a gym in our garage,

Starting point is 01:03:36 so I'm not like going to the CrossFit gym, and it's not a huge part of my identity CrossFit, but shoulder injury did wake me up. I hear what you're saying, and for me, the mental, getting into the gym to do CrossFit style workouts is at this point easier, which is what my question was. So I hear what you're saying, Sal, and the real mental challenge now is trying to figure out how to do something different. So I appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:04:02 No problem. And you're a dad, so I'm going throw this in there, just a little extra. When you start to question what you're doing, ask yourself what you would tell your son. How would you coach your son? And I guarantee you tell your son, listen kid, you hit yourself, you hurt yourself, we need to train differently.

Starting point is 01:04:18 So take your own advice, that'll help. Okay, I appreciate it guys, thank you. You guys right, thank you. All right, take care. You got it. Man, it's the, the, the worship of the pain with, with the ex athletes or the people who had developed that addictive. Well, that's who relationship with that, that's who's drawn to that sport.

Starting point is 01:04:38 Of course. It's rarely ever. That's who's drawn to it, especially the people that crossfit Orange Theory. Especially if you stick to it. If you stick to it, that's why you normally stick to it because it's it's a And you know I want to be clear too because I know sometimes we we can go on these rants and then it turns into I'm and we're gonna Get it on this fucking YouTube channel There'll be a bunch of people that are defending all blah blah blah

Starting point is 01:04:57 CrossFit does and then it turns into like you have to defend CrossFit It's like listen if it's working for you you love it, you don't have a shoulder issue and problem, and it keeps you consistent and you have a good relationship with that size, fuck and do it. I'm all for it. Do it. Go for it. We're talking about the abuse. Yeah. And the reason, it's just because we've seen so much of it, I think we speak so loudly about it. It's like, if it's working for you by all means, but this idea that it is a superior workout or it's ideal for most people could not be further from the truth. If it's working for you, you're the anomaly.

Starting point is 01:05:31 I just always like to present people alternatives because I just don't think they know that there's a way to get that same experience in a more intelligent fashion. Well, there's the appeal where they, you're right, Justin, but there's also this appeal to the community aspect. That's where they hit it out the poll. Oh, yeah. That's where they just hands down.

Starting point is 01:05:53 They're probably the most effective out there. They built the cultures. Yeah. They built the culture in gyms. Did a crappy job do that? And that's also why they feel they need to defend it. It's also too wide. You're defending the culture.

Starting point is 01:06:05 It's a lot like a team. I mean, it's very similar to the experience. Like, to me, it's the same thing I got out of being playing sports. You have a real tight team that depends on you to come in. Everybody's kind of watching your progress and is part of that entire process. But for me, that's where I see a distinctive difference

Starting point is 01:06:30 because the other part of that for me was training in the gym was then building up my attributes which then I would see when I would go perform. Listen, there's gonna be times in your life. I'm going through it right now. I talked about it when Katrina was having a baby and stuff like that where, you know, my workouts need to mold to my lifestyle and my current season of my life. And if you follow a routine or like a group setting where that's being dictated by the group all the

Starting point is 01:07:01 time, it's just not ideal for most people's lives. Maybe a phase in your life or a season of your life, it's really good for you and it's doing great and by all means enjoy it. But at some point you're going to become a dad, shoulder issues are going to happen, you're going to have these crazy work hours, you're not going to have maybe the full time to go to that class or to make that exact time. And so then, and you don't want to be dependent on anybody else's motivation. You do not want to be the person who has to have that in order to be fit or successful in that arena. You want to be able to, you know, pivot and adapt and mold your, your fitness

Starting point is 01:07:35 journey to your lifestyle. Our next caller is Griffith from Georgia. Griffith, what's happening? How can we help you? I'm good. First, I just wanna say thank you all for all you I'm doing. I've loved the videos I've put out. I've been listening to y'all for about two to three years. I'd say I bought Prime, the Prime bundle, a little over a year ago. I had some shoulder issues from baseball and whatnot. So I did a lot of wall tests,

Starting point is 01:08:02 a lot of wall slides, stuff like that. Y'all put in there. So I'll get lot of wall tests, a lot of wall slides, stuff like that. Y'all put in there. So I'll get right into it. First my history. So I've been sports my whole life, football based, while mainly first year college. I went and played football out of small D3 school. Enjoyed it, but I fell in love more with the weight room.

Starting point is 01:08:22 So I transferred and went to a kinesiology program that I knew I could pursue and get good in with. Started personal training, and turning with the Strength Conditioning Program there, helping out with some of the teams in the mornings. So I graduated last year in May, or this past May. So I'm 22. As soon as I got out, I got lucky and landed a strength condition in job for a college. It's their first one they've ever had, so I'm doing the job all by myself. So I'm kind of swamped.

Starting point is 01:08:57 There's about 20 teams. I train about seven to eight a day. So my first question basically is what programs would y'all suggest? First, like, generically, like, what's the first, second, third order? I know I've looked at anabolic because I knew it was probably just a great place to start. I looked at aesthetic as well because I feel like it would be a good challenge for me, but I also love the idea of symmetry because I train a lot like I feel symmetry would be. So I was just wondering how y'all's order usually goes when it comes to that.

Starting point is 01:09:31 Okay, sounds like Justin's path, almost like you're reliving my old steps. And let me get this clear. This question is specifically for you. I know you told us your history. This isn't for your athletes and your teams. You're running this personal, right? Personal, right? This is for me. So I get swamped during the day and by the time I get to me and it's my time to work out, I just don't feel like making a program,

Starting point is 01:09:54 don't feel like sitting down and riding it. And I don't want to get in there. I don't feel like doing that. That's clear now. So symmetry, anabolic, aesthetic. Yeah, I like that. That'll work. I think symmetry definitely to start with.

Starting point is 01:10:04 You've been working out for a little while. I think symmetry is going to highlight. Yeah, shoot like that. That'll work. I think symmetry definitely to start with you've been working out for a little while I think symmetry is gonna highlight. Yeah, shoot them that one, don't forget. Embalances. It's gonna balance things out You'll probably get the best Results of that after that maps and a wallack will be good. I like map strong too, especially for athletes They tend to love map strong because of its non- Conventional nature and there's elements of it that, I mean, if you like full body strength, map strong is excellent for us. A surprising program to me, I followed that one

Starting point is 01:10:31 to actually quickly became one of my favorites. But I definitely think you should jump into symmetry. I think that's a good one. How much hypertrophy training have you done? I did a good bit of it. So right out of football. So three years ago I kind of got big in a powerlifting and I really just wanted to hit like three 15 on bench four or five squat 500 dead and

Starting point is 01:10:53 I've completed that My sophomore year at college And then ever since then it's basically been a part three. Okay. Yeah, I was just curious, is because I know for me and myself and other athletes, like that was not something that we included in our strength conditioning programs coming through. So that was always a completely different stimulus for me, which I responded really well to. But I do think symmetry is gonna help to really,

Starting point is 01:11:22 you know, kind of do an assessment and see an assessment and see where there's any deficiencies, any kind of dysfunction that can be addressed for their strength and build that up, which will feed in nicely to our anabolic program. That's kind of like our flagship staple program of like, I'm just focused on building muscle and going through that process exclusively. Yeah, Symm symmetry is great. When you start to work on that unilateral, those unilateral exercises,

Starting point is 01:11:50 you'll find when you get to the end of symmetries as a bilateral phase, a very traditional kind of strength training phase, you're gonna feel very solid in your lifts and that'll take it perfectly through maps and a ball, like you'll get phase one, which is essentially a continuation, or somewhat of a continuation of the last phase of map symmetry.

Starting point is 01:12:11 You'll see more strength gains, then you'll get into the more bodybuilding side of maps and a ball, like as you get into phase two and phase three. And then after that, you can go aesthetic if you really wanna go bodybuilding or strong. I really like map strong a lot. People really surprised at I hypertrophy they get

Starting point is 01:12:25 from MAP Strong because you think strong man training, it's more functional, but people, especially with the back, they develop their back really well with that one. Now I got to ask you, so your programming, all these other sports programs now is the director. Are you incorporating any of our prime workouts and prime exercises within your protocol? So I definitely, a lot of my warm up is mobility.

Starting point is 01:12:49 So I do a lot of y'alls and I also do a lot of FMS as well. It's a lot of leg lowering and stuff like that as well. And then I'll put some band work that y'all have shown and that I've learned in the Kinesiology program that I went through. So like, I'll do like two main lifts and then like a mobility for a block and then repeat that.

Starting point is 01:13:08 Excellent, very cool. Well, good deal. All right, well, thanks for calling in Griffith. We'll send that over to you. I got one more question. Can I ask that? Yeah, go for it. I just want to first just say,

Starting point is 01:13:18 is there any advice or anything in particular that you would do in like my position as a first coming strength conditioning coach as for the university, for each athletic team, anything that y'all would put that y'all haven't seen in many universities before. Oh, that's a, I'm not gonna be able to answer that one. I think Justin, you have the most experience in that.

Starting point is 01:13:38 Yeah, I mean, in terms of like testing and like going through that, that's why I kind of mentioned our prime just because I didn't see a lot of assessments happening very often and I know within the Kinesiology setting you probably even handled like some labs. When I went through, you know, we were able to kind of test a lot of the students

Starting point is 01:13:58 and you know, we'd run through kind of like older tests like sitting reach and you know, for flexibility and all these other types of assessments, but you know, squat assessments, the FMS, I think that's great. And anything like that to be able to provide a little bit more metrics initially on the quality of their movement.

Starting point is 01:14:19 I think like really honing in on quality of movement will set you apart from a lot of other colleges and places I've seen before. And to then also be able to take some more of those testing opportunities for vertical and for speed testing and 40 yards and all that kind of stuff, just to make sure that what you're programming, it kind of leads to a point that you can show an actual metric.

Starting point is 01:14:50 So then if you go to present it to your authorities or people within the college, you can kind of give them an idea of what's working where there's some need for improvement. Also, how many athletes went out due to injury, if you're able to lower that percentage rate, things like that I think would be awesome. What about that booklet you made, Justin? Is that common practice? Does everybody do that? Or is that having something like that that you give out to them? I don't think so. I think that's something I do that to organize my thoughts better, and to also be able to have that in the athlete's hands.

Starting point is 01:15:26 So that way, you know, and I look at it more as like, I'm not super stringent. I'm like forcing everybody to come in with, I want them to want to do the work, right, and to be able to log and to track. So that in terms of like something you can provide, I think that's valuable. And especially parents too, they'll see that and they'll see like how, you know, they can track any kind of progress with their weights, like what they've been able to do on specific exercises, you know, where they're at at the end of the program, kind of give you feedback with that as well. So I've, I've, what's been really helpful with that for me is just really showing and then writing in there like what's happened in terms of like how much stronger they feel,

Starting point is 01:16:11 like how much more energy they have, how much more mobility and you know like how and then too like you know some of those tests they got faster a little bit higher in their vertical jump. So I think that all in all it it seems like a lot of work, but if you just can provide what you have kind of on your own computer, but give it to them in sort of a little manual, I think that's what I did and it tended to help a lot. A good resource, Joe DeFranco, by the way,

Starting point is 01:16:42 in this space, he's to be one of the best resources you're going to find for strength training, especially for athletes and especially for football. Him and Justin had a really good conversation. If you didn't listen to that interview already, that was a really good conversation. The two of them had together. You know, I don't know, maybe Justin, you can help me if there's a term for this or something that's common practice, but some of the most successful organizations that I've seen in sports tend to have like this, like a mantra of like four or five things

Starting point is 01:17:13 that we believe in, attitude, movement quality. Core values. Yeah, like you would for a business, right? So as a business, we have our core values and that you hire people around those core values, you speak to those core values, you judge somebody's success within the company and business off those core values. And the more simple, the better, like three to five tops, right?

Starting point is 01:17:35 Of these things that you really, like when you look as the collective, the huge group of people you're overseeing, like, and I love Justin pointing out the like quality of movement because I think in young men and women, that tends to be an area in sports where they just, they don't tend to focus as much. And so I like that, quality of movement, attitude.

Starting point is 01:17:55 And so having three to five things that are your core values, if you don't have that already, I think having that and then just repeating that and repeating that and drilling. That's great. Because I mean, that can span all the different sports right they all have that in common and and I think that to the the simplification of what you're what your program and in presenting them really helps athletes focus in on all those little things that matter the most.

Starting point is 01:18:21 All right. All right. Appreciate it. You got a Griffith. Thank you. I have a good most. All right. I appreciate it. You got to, Griffith. Thank you. I've a good one. No problem. Yeah, it's interesting. He's a coach and a trainer.

Starting point is 01:18:31 He's got education, but he wants some programming. I do think that highlights the value. And sometimes just, even for myself, following one of our programs, because I don't want to have to think about what I need to do or sometimes I caught up my own ego, but if I follow a laid out program, I'm gonna follow the, you know, when we wrote it in a good sense of mind, so I'm not gonna fall into the trap of my ego. Oh, I mean, last night I was writing something for us, right? So you asked me to add something to, you know, a program that's coming out in the future, and so I had to sit and it's a lot of what I'm going through right now. So I had to sit down and like organize

Starting point is 01:19:07 my thoughts. And I had, like, I'm following, I'm doing something, but I'm not like following something to a tee and just go, I'm doing my, well, it has fundamental, but what, what I see when I write it down is the holes. Of course. And even with all the experience I have, even with the success that I'm having from it, it highlights, oh wow, I'm not really addressing this, I need to build that in there. Oh, and so there's so much value in even somebody, at some of the highest levels of training to do that.

Starting point is 01:19:38 So in that highlights too, which we didn't bring up to him is having a network and having somebody to counsel them in terms of in the strength conditioning world, like having somebody to present these ideas to and find those holes and see these types of things because inevitably, that's just one of those things. They pop up and then, you know, you do a good job of iterating and going through again, but to have another set of eyes that you trust and is always helpful.

Starting point is 01:20:09 All right, our next caller is Maddie from Washington. Maddie, what's happening? How can we help you? Hi guys, thanks so much for having me on. This is so exciting. You got it, you got it. Great. So I thought I'd start with a little background

Starting point is 01:20:23 and then I'll ask my question. So I'm 25 years old in the last year. I've lost about 40 pounds and I'm trying to move from weight loss to just gaining more strength. And I before have been doing about five days in the gym with about 30 minutes of cardio and 20 minutes of just trying different machines, not anything super serious. And I have a trainer who's been trying to help me get into more strength training. And she says the same thing that you guys do a lot, which is stop all of

Starting point is 01:20:57 that cardio and lift more. And I just, my question is how will I not gain weight? I know it makes logical sense, but I don't know why it makes sense. And so I just want to know, why will I not gain weight by cutting out that cardio and just lifting more? And then also I'd love some just pointers on moving from trying just different machines to like actually getting stronger. Okay. So you said it makes logical sense, what makes logical sense about it? I guess maybe not logical sense, but every time I've been listening to your podcast, my trainer recommended it a few weeks ago and I'm like, okay, yeah, you guys seem to believe this and you guys seem to get really great grounded advice and I want to believe you, but I'm just not sure why. Okay, okay, so you're a new listener, okay, so, okay. So let me, I'll do the simplified kind of version

Starting point is 01:21:47 of the explanation. You can burn calories manually, okay? So you can move by burning calories, but your body also burns calories on its own. That's what your metabolism is, okay? And there's a lot of room with where your metabolism can go. Your metabolism can become more efficient or less efficient, and that can become a big number,

Starting point is 01:22:08 and that's a number that'll happen on its own. So think of your metabolism in this particular context, is how many calories your body burns automatically, and then you got the manual side of how many calories you want to burn by moving. The reason why you don't want to rest your laurels on the, I got to move more side of the equation is for two reasons. One, you don't burn that many calories when you move.

Starting point is 01:22:30 Okay, so I know people are like, oh, you got to move more to burn more calories. It's not that much. An hour of really hard exercise will burn you maybe 400 calories. I know that, you know, the machines at the gym say, but they're full of crap. It's like 400 calories, maybe 400 calories. I mean, that's a lot of work to burn something that you could eat in 10 minutes, right? What if we could teach your metabolism

Starting point is 01:22:51 to burn 400 more calories on its own? In other words, sitting on the couch, just doing your daily life, right? The way you do that is you move towards building muscle, is you feed your body appropriately, and through the process of building muscle, not just having more muscle because more muscle does burn more calories, but also telling your body it doesn't need to be as efficient with calories.

Starting point is 01:23:13 That will make your metabolism move in the direction of faster. And I've taken many people, I've taken young ladies like yourself and gotten them to burn 800 more calories a day through a faster metabolism, for example. That's not way out of the ballpark of reasonable, by the way. So you can do this by teaching your metabolism to burn more calories. It's a much more sustainable approach. Otherwise you're stuck with, I got to do all this cardio.

Starting point is 01:23:39 I got to keep moving to keep my body where it's at. And then on top of that, cardio teaches the body to become more efficient with calories. And it does this by pairing muscle down and because it's a calorie intensive form of activity that doesn't require much strength. And so you'll see over time that you actually start to, your metabolism actually starts to quote, unquote,

Starting point is 01:23:59 slow down through that process. I wrote a book called The Resistance Training Revolution. I think it explains it. I break it down. It's very easy to understand. I think that book called The Resistance Training Revolution. I think it explains it, or break it down, is very easy to understand. I think that would do you a lot of good. I think that would help you really understand this process. Now, as far as your workouts are concerned, if you're working with a trainer that understands

Starting point is 01:24:15 strength training, I would listen to them. Let's put you there Tony to listen to podcasts. They probably use our philosophy to train. I would have the trainers tell them, look, okay, I wanna do strength training, I wanna get stronger, I would have the trainer tell them, look, okay, I want to do strength training, I want to get stronger, I want to trust the process, show up and then do those workouts. And then watch what happens. And what'll happen is you're gonna,

Starting point is 01:24:33 the scale isn't gonna move, but you're gonna get this kind of snowball effect. And as your metabolism kicks up, you're gonna find it easier and easier to maintain leanness and or you'll actually get leaner. And it's gonna feel much more effortless. Keep this in mind, keep this in mind too. Most people that are exercising are doing it to shape their body or to get in better shape,

Starting point is 01:24:54 lose body fat, lean out, get this figure that they're trying to obtain. Cardio does not do that. Weight training is the only way for you to sculpt your body. You can lose weight and body fat can come off, but you're not going to shape your body. You're not going to make your hip to waist ratio look better. You're not going to make your butt sit up and be more perky. You're not going to make your arms look more defined and sculpted. That is all from lifting weights. Literally, that is, and you can keep your weight exactly where it's, your body weight,

Starting point is 01:25:27 exactly where it's at, and completely alter the way your body looks by lifting weights. You cannot do that with cardio. Well, Maddie, muscle is very dense, and it takes up, I don't know, something like, a little more than three-fourths of the space that body fat does for the same amount of weight. So in other words, if you lost 10 pounds of body fat and gained 10 pounds of muscle, you would weigh the same on the scale, but you would look very different.

Starting point is 01:25:53 Okay, so keep that all in mind, but I do highly suggest you read the resistance training revolution. I wrote it for the average person, and I kind of break it down. It'll make sense, and it's backed by studies. I put some really interesting studies in there, and then of course, the way I explain it, I think it'll make sense to you, and it'll really help you make this mental transition with your exercise, because you're in a very common place.

Starting point is 01:26:15 People lose the way through trying to move a lot and cut their calories, and then they get to this place where they're kind of like it's unsustainable, or plateau, like what do I do from here? You know, if we can get your metabolism to just burn more calories, I mean, how much easier will it be for you to maintain this for the rest of your life? Right. You're at a very exciting place right now, getting somebody who has primarily done cardio to get in shape most of life.

Starting point is 01:26:38 And I get a hold of them and I introduce training, strength training to them. It's a good time. Oh, yeah. Get ready to get your mind on the I will think on the trainer into things, I do have a great trainer. I can only meet with her about once a month for 30 minutes, though, as part of a membership. And otherwise, I'm kind of a, I'm trying to get my husband through law school.

Starting point is 01:26:55 So, I'm going to have to be self-taught. I'm going to send you a program then. I'm going to send you, let me send you, how's your movement? I mean, you're pretty young. You could do like a squat and you can squat down, body weight, and all that stuff, right? You don't have any mobility issues. How about resistance training? I would do, yeah, let me send you a map's resistance and start with that. And get the book. So get the, get the book from it. We'll get his book so you can read it and then follow

Starting point is 01:27:21 a map's resistance, which was designed to complement that look. That'll, that'll be your workout and just follow that. Okay. Yep. Sweet. Awesome. Thanks for calling me. Thank you so much, guys.

Starting point is 01:27:31 Thank you. And keep listening to the podcast that will make more sense as you listen. It's a conversation. It's not something you can understand in just one. Right. You sound bites can explain it all. Yeah. Well, it's been great so far from conspiracy theories to just this fight stuff.

Starting point is 01:27:43 Yeah, my people. All right. The lizard people want us to be fat. Yeah. All stuff. Yeah, my people. All right. The lizard people want us to be fat. Yeah. All right. Thanks, Maddie. Thanks guys. Bye bye.

Starting point is 01:27:52 Hey, you know, it's cool getting a new listener who hasn't, because when we talk about that so much on the show that I assume someone calls in, they know our answer already. So, but I'm glad, you know, she's a new listener and she called in, because it's getting a blur of mind. I mean, when you make the transition from, I need to burn all this and I can't eat to, wow, I could teach my body to live. Oh, it's, and then you start to do it, and then the snowball effects happen,

Starting point is 01:28:18 because, you know, when you do tons of cardio calories, you get that initial fast weight loss, and then you get that hard plateau. With what we talk about, it feels like a slower start, but then the snowball effect starts to happen. That's the biggest psychological challenge. And then you're in this place where you're like, this is, I love, I used to love hearing this from clients

Starting point is 01:28:35 that come see me be like, so this is so weird. How am I getting leaner? I don't understand. And I can eat more. Yeah, this cause it makes any sense. Like what's going on? I'm like you're working with your body,

Starting point is 01:28:44 and this is now you're finding The sustainable lifelong approach. I mean Katrina was the last person for me to give that mind-blowing advice to I mean I remember watching her going from the person who every time she put on an extra five or ten pounds She went straight to the road and ran for an hour two hours at a time and then ran the calories off, and was this back and forth battle, and she always had, and she was constantly struggling with keeping her weight where she liked it, and fast forward years later of us dating, and she's like, I'm so mad all these years

Starting point is 01:29:19 that I thought this was, she's like, I put less effort, less time. My body is the best it's ever been. I can eat more than I've ever ate before. It's way less effort into exercising. She's like, you're a slave to the treadmill anymore. Oh my God, it's like, it is the secret sauce. Once you put it, that's why she's an exciting place right now.

Starting point is 01:29:36 If that's how she's gotten in shape, most of her life, introducing strength training to her. I was in the lower mind. Oh yeah. Our next caller is Kevin from Colorado. Kevin, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, first off, thanks for having me on the show. You've been a huge part of my fitness journey. So yeah, I love what you guys are doing and kind of squashing some of the myths that are going around these days. So thank you for that.

Starting point is 01:30:01 So just to kind of get started, I just want to give you a little bit of background on where I'm coming from. So I'm 32 years old, I weighed about 205 pounds. I've been working out consistently for about five years or so. And for most of that, I was probably over-training, but recently in the last two years or so, I've started to realize that. And so I shifted more to your antibiotic style programming and started eating a lot better. When I first started working out, I was about 160 pounds, definitely under eating and over training.

Starting point is 01:30:33 So that was just a bad mess. In August of 2021, I started anabolic and I followed that up with performance and then power lift and after finishing power lift in June of 2022. I felt like I made some really great improvements with the major lifts there and so I was really excited to get back to doing anabolic again to try and crush some of my previous numbers. However, when I went back to do it again, some of my numbers either stayed the same or even went down in some cases like tricep dips

Starting point is 01:31:03 and stuff, I couldn't do the numbers that I once did before. So as far as like diet goes and stuff I consistently log Monday through Friday, hitting at 220 grams of protein, 3500 calories, and then on the weekends I just kind of just relax a little bit. I don't eat out a whole lot, don't drink a whole lot. a little bit. I don't eat out a whole lot, don't drink a whole lot. But yeah, and so I'm just kind of feeling that my goal is to get to 210, 215 maintenance weight and bulk up. I've always been skinny, so I'm just trying to get there and then just starting to get a little frustrated with why my strength isn't progressing when I feel like my diet's been pretty squared away. So my questions, you are, you know, do you have any suggestions

Starting point is 01:31:45 of things that maybe I could do differently to see more muscle growth? And when you're in seasons of kind of stall progress, how do you stay motivated with doing diet and trigger sessions and consistently working out when you look around the gym and you're not supposed to compare yourself to others, but it generally happens.

Starting point is 01:32:03 Kevin, how long have you been trying to build and when was the last time you did a cut? So I've been basically got a consistent bulk since probably 2019 when I was down in the 160s. And for most of that time, I was on a bulk. I'd say within the last maybe two or three months, I've been doing what you guys recommended about a mini cut. So I just got off a mini cut last week, so I'm back on the booking again. How long was the cut for? Just a week. Yeah, no. I would do a more focused job. Yeah, I would go, I would go on a, do you know what your body fat percentage is? According to like one of those scales, you know, that measures the impedance, I think it's like around 14, but I've never actually, like,

Starting point is 01:32:45 physically measured it. So there's two things here. One, something's different. So when people are like, I did the same exact thing as before, and it doesn't work, nothing is exactly the same. So something is different,

Starting point is 01:32:57 whether it be stress, sleep, diet, intensity, intent, it may be something, one of those things. So something's different, life changes all the time, which means you wanna change your approach, especially if you're gonna do this for the rest of your life. Number two, if since 2019, the longest you've been in a calorie deficit is a week,

Starting point is 01:33:17 I would say, let's change gears. Let's see if we can get you down to single-digit body fat. I would go, let's get you on a cut and interrupt the cut with many bulks until we can get you down to visible abs, which will be probably around 10 to 9%. That'll take you probably, I mean, if you're consistent, you could do that in about eight weeks, 10 weeks with some interruptions. And then once you get down to single-digit body fat, reverse into a bulk, the most anabolic I've ever felt my entire,

Starting point is 01:33:49 like, so look, I identify with the constant bulk. I did this for most of my life. The most anabolic I ever felt my entire life, where I was like, I couldn't believe how responsive my muscles were. It literally felt like they were sponges, was after I filmed and shot the original maps at a ball. Like, I got myself down to shred it.

Starting point is 01:34:08 I don't know what I got down to. I was a single digit, five, six percent body fat. I don't know what it was. After that, I started eating more in training, and it was like, I just built. My body was so sensitive to calories, and to lifting heavy. I just built more muscle.

Starting point is 01:34:24 I hit PRs and everything. It was this incredible feeling. And really what it was, it's just I never let my body experience that really long enough. I would I would even take it one step further and shift your complete. I'd actually make you run a map. Sustetic next and do exactly what he's saying. So I'd run maps aesthetic and let's get lean. And I'd say let's not not worry about the lifts as far as your strength right now, we'll get to that. Or like this, I think it would be a good focus for you right now, is to kind of train the bodybuilders may as well, since we're trying to lean out,

Starting point is 01:34:53 and we're trying to get visible abs, like go on that focus for a little bit, and then when you come out of that, we can go back to bulk and then run anabolic or powerless. Now remember this, when you're in a cut and you're running a high volume program like maps aesthetic, do not get hung up on the numbers on the bar.

Starting point is 01:35:10 That's why I want to move them to aesthetic. Oh yeah, but just don't even worry about it. It's all about form, it's all about feel, even in phase one with a cut for you, I would worry about form, feel, pump, don't overdo the intensity, because if you overdo the intensity while you're going to cut,

Starting point is 01:35:24 you're just gonna over train yourself. Sure. Just focus on the pump, focus on the squeak, pretend like you're a bodybuilder getting ready for a show. Don't focus on the weights as much as the technique, form, and feel. And it's a 12 week program that gives you plenty of time to get down to single digit body fat. When you feel like you need a diet break, quote unquote, like you need some calories, I would go in a mini bulk for four days, five days, and then go back on the cut and get yourself lean. And then when you're out of that, go back to a bulk and then watch what happens, man.

Starting point is 01:35:52 Keep it, keep it, keep it easy feeling. Keep in mind, this advice is coming because we know we got your history, right? So I know you've been training for five years, pretty consistently. So, and hearing what you've been doing, nutritionally and focus training wise, I just know this is the best,

Starting point is 01:36:06 one of the better avenues for you to take. It's not, it's like, because someone else might hear that, but okay, this guy wants to hit PRs and his squat and bench and you're telling him to go to aesthetic. That sounds counter-intuitive. No, we're talking to Kevin right now. That's right.

Starting point is 01:36:20 I'm talking specifically to the avatar you've built for me and you're training background. How long you've built for me and your training background, how long you've been doing this for and this kind of plateau you're kind of feeling. This to me is gonna break through that plateau. You're gonna shift your focus. We're not worried about weight on the bar so much. We're gonna go into this kind of body builder-esque type

Starting point is 01:36:37 of programming. We're gonna diet to lean down, drop some body fat, get lean, and then when we get out of that program, we're gonna bump the calories back up and go back to anabolic or power lift and then watch what you feel and see. Totally. Do you have maps aesthetic by the way, Kevin? No, I don't have that one.

Starting point is 01:36:53 We'll send that to you. All right. Awesome. And then just on that real quick, so with the cut, you know, when I have done these little many cuts, I've always just tried to hit the protein goal, make that the focus and then kind of between fats and carbs, whatever kind of fits in and make sure that like 500 calorie deficit or I don't even know like what's a good deficit. Oh, I see. Okay. So right now you're what 3500 calories a. Yeah, about that. Yeah, I go down. I'd start with the probably 2800, 2900 calories, and then base that on how you feel. So that would be the starting point. And then if you lose more than, you know,

Starting point is 01:37:30 if you lose more than like one and a half, two pounds on the scale, I would bump the calories again. I wouldn't wanna lose like three, four pounds in a week. That's probably going too fast. Although the first week you might see a little bit of that because of water. Yeah, so yeah, I wouldn't wanna see two weeks in a row. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. Three, three, four pounds, right? Cause right at the gate, you might see a little bit that water. Okay, so yeah, I wouldn't want to see two weeks in a row. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. Three, three, four pounds right because right

Starting point is 01:37:48 at the gate, you might see a little bit, but that's probably mostly water. So, but yeah, to Salis Point, I think 2800 to 3000s where I'd put you and then and I think it's totally fine what you're doing. I'd like to great easy focus. Just hit your protein intake, split your carbs and fat. Doesn't matter as long as you're heading around your calories and following that program, I think you're gonna be in a good place. Yep. Okay. Awesome.

Starting point is 01:38:10 All right. And then just the second part of my question was that right now, like, it kind of feels like since I have been in a bulk for so long, I'm kind of like force feeding myself. And I assume after you go into a cut for a while, coming back to a bulk, you're hunger and happening. Oh, right. This is also, these are all signs of time.

Starting point is 01:38:25 This is also why I asked that. That's why my question first was to you was how long, when was the last time you did a real cut? It's because I think it's going to promote you being able to eat more and want more. And then you're gonna be the smallest point of being depleted and then refeeding. It's gonna serve your body well.

Starting point is 01:38:41 It's gonna be patient. Trust the process, believe in us, follow what we're saying. And then when you get back to anabolic or power, that's pretty good. I don't blow your mind. It's gonna be patient. Trust the process, believe in us, follow what we're saying, and then when you get back to anabolic or power, the power. Yeah, you're gonna feel amazing, look amazing, and be hungry and fueled. You're gonna like it. Well, I appreciate that.

Starting point is 01:38:55 Thank you guys very much for having your advice. You got it, man. You remember the first time experiencing that, like, where you actually did a cut, and then you came out of me like, ugh! I, man, I missed out all this. I mean, I've said that I felt more anabolic

Starting point is 01:39:12 from that than I did from steroids, which is a strong ass statement, but I did. I mean, I really felt going in a hard cut for an extended period of time and then coming out and refeeding and at those that's like your most resource. That week of exercising is like I mean part of the draw to competing for me became the week after the show is over. I look forward to that more than

Starting point is 01:39:36 anything else was I know I'm about to get myself on the best shape of my life which is cool but the week after the way I felt the, the way I looked, I mean everything. Especially with something like that, because then you still maintain most of the leanness, just muscle, that packs on your body. But even besides that, just resensitizing your muscles, your body, your psyche to food, it's no different than the advice we give someone

Starting point is 01:40:02 who's always trying to lose weight. And we tell them to try to reverse that. Well, that's why you guys advised me a lot of sense to me. It's like, he's been we give someone who's always trying to lose weight and we tell them to try to reverse it. That's why you guys advice me a lot of sense to me. It's like he's been in this bulk for so long and it's like a chore at this point and to where the body's not even receiving the nutrients. The way it used to in the initially the beginning. So to interrupt that entire process, I think is going to be fantastic. I knew it. That's why I asked him my wife. He's got the nail rod.

Starting point is 01:40:23 He's going to have-year bulk right now. Totally. Look here, if you love the show, head over to MindPumpFree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at MindPump. Justin,

Starting point is 01:40:38 Adam is on Instagram at MindPump.atm and you can find me on Twitter at MindPump.al. Thank you for listening to MindPump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy You can find me on Twitter at MindPumpSouth. and maps the static. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos,

Starting point is 01:41:16 the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump.

Starting point is 01:41:44 by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1896: The Superior Form of Exercise to Lose Body Fat, Avoiding CrossFit Injuries, the Best Order to go Through MAPS Programs & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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