Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1900: The Truth About Peptides With Dr. Rand McClain

Episode Date: September 12, 2022

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Dr. Rand McClain about testosterone and peptides. The BIG myths surrounding testosterone. (2:48) How important is testosterone for women? (33:49) A brief history of peptides. (46:03) Since insulin, what are some of the biggest peptide breakthroughs? (51:01) Should peptide use be monitored by doctors? (54:15) Breaking down the peptide PT-141 for libido and sex. (59:59) Oxytocin is the love bonding chemical. (1:05:42) Comparing growth hormone and Ibutamoren. (1:09:24) Cognitive boosting peptides. (1:14:45) Anything worth doing is worth doing it right. (1:16:12) Related Links/Products Mentioned MP Peptide Visit Drink LMNT for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! September Promotion: Skinny Guy Bundle (MAPS ANABOLIC // MAPS AESTHETIC // NO B.S. 6-PACK FORMULA // INTUITIVE NUTRITION GUIDE // OCCLUSION TRAINING GUIDE.) HALF OFF!! Also, the Fit Mom Bundle (MAPS ANYWHERE // MAPS ANABOLIC // MAPS HIIT // and INTUITIVE NUTRITION GUIDE.) HALF OFF!! **Code SEPT50 at checkout** Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum MP Hormones Peptide - Wikipedia BPC-157 Health benefits, dosage, safety, side-effects, and more Ibutamoren (MK677): Benefits & Side Effects PT-141 | Reviews, Dosage & Clinical Trials - Peptides Selank - Wikipedia Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned David Sinclair (@davidsinclairphd) Instagram Jordan Shallow D.C (@the_muscle_doc) Instagram Ben Greenfield (@bengreenfieldfitness) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Alright, today's episode, I had a lot of fun with this one. We had Dr. Rand on the show talking to us about peptides. So you've probably heard of peptides.

They're in that kind of quasi-gray market in between maybe hormones and supplements. They have real effects on the body. There's a lot of them. And I had Dr. Rand on to answer some questions. Now we work with him and his team quite a bit. It's actually one of the companies we work with. And I got to ask him questions like, what about peptides for growth hormone release,

or recovery, or joint health, or sexual health. So we went down a list and got some questions, and got some answers. He was, and he's very, very honest. Lots of integrity. Obviously, he knows what he's doing. He's a doctor. Anyway, we put together some packages with them for some of our listeners. So these will be doctor supervised packages. So if you go to mppeptide.com. So mppeptide.com, you can go on there, you can work with a doctor. If you're curious about peptides, you want to increase growth hormone, you want to maximize sexual health, you want to help your joints improve recovery. I mean, there's quite a few on there. You can go there, work with a doctor, so you can get monitored, and then reap some of

the benefits. I've actually messed with a few of them. You hear me talk about this in this episode, and they're actually quite remarkable. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, Elemente. So Elemente is electrolyte powder. You put in your water. It's sweetened naturally and it's got the right amount of sodium. So most electrolyte powder drinks don't have enough sodium for athletes.

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Also, we have two workout bundles on sale right now. The first one is the skinny guy bundle, which includes maps and a ball, like maps aesthetic, the no BS six pack formula, the intuitive nutrition guide, the occlusion training guide. That entire bundle is 50% off. The second bundle is the fit mom bundle. That includes maps anywhere, maps and a ball, maps it, and the intuitive nutrition guide. So that's also 50% off.

You can find both bundles at mapsfitnessproducts.com. Just use the coupon code, S-E-P-T-50, with no space for the discount. All right, here comes the show. Dr. Rand welcome back. Take it nice to be here. Yeah, good to have you again, excellent. So I wanted it, we're having you on to talk about a segment of what you guys do at regenerative that does not include the hormone therapy. It's something that we're all very

interested in and we have a lot of questions. But before we do, I did want to ask you about some myths around testosterone that keep popping up whenever I bring up testosterone replacement therapy. I'll get messages and people will ask me about certain things in regards to testosterone as that could take an entire show. Oh, I know. But there's some big ones out there. One of them is, and you still hear this one, is that testosterone makes people angry or aggressive in a negative way. So let's talk about that for a second.

Okay, that's an easy one because, the word I use with testosterone most often is leverage. It leverages everything you're doing. So it's why people can't just take testosterone and look like shorts and egg are, for example. You still got to do the work, right? So, what I will say, and I won't mention what I normally mention in practice,

just because this is gonna go places and we don't wanna get sued. But, we've heard of certain athletes, let's say, who have taken antibiotics steroids. And by the way, there are some antibiotics steroids, like halitessen, for example, and guys who have taken anabolic steroids. And by the way, there are some anabolic steroids, like halitessen, for example, and guys who have taken it will go, yeah, I know what you're talking about,

that have a profile that tends to lead to aggressiveness, okay? Okay. But that's not testosterone. Right, that's not testosterone. For the most part, well, I should probably throw anodrol in there, but it's because there's something that mimics the estrogen agonist, okay. And that's cut into the chase.

That's what it's all about. It's too much estrogen that makes you feel moody and erasible. So when guys in the gym and you see them, you know, they've gone from a super nice guy to a jerk, you know, they put on 30 pounds in three months and half of it looks like it's in their face They're holding so much water, right? So see, estrogen that does that? Bitchy. Okay, so then theoretically maybe part of the reason why some people report that is because they're not managing their estrogen levels very well They're going to have a dose of it. Because they're doing it black market. They're taking testosterone, they're not managing their estrogen levels,

maybe they're not taking their shots consistently or the right dose for them, and their estrogen levels are rising. So maybe they are reporting something that they do actually feel, but it's not because they're managing a pro, or they're not managing a proper. Absolutely. First of all, testosterone is the feel good hormone. They used to use it in the 1950s, four ladies, by the way. There's a big study where they, well, I shouldn't say a big one, but I think it was at least 50 individuals where they treated depression. Okay, we didn't have serotonin reuptake in hybrids back then, but they successfully treated depression in females.

And I say that because, you know, even today, people think, well, test osmosis for guys only, right? Okay, we know better than that. But it's a feel good hormone. And if you see some of the guys that are doing it right in the gym, not just because they're gigantic, not just because you're gigantic, you can kick someone's ass. But they feel pretty comfortable in their skin,

and they're walking around, they're like big bears, right? If they're doing it properly. The guy we're talking about is like I described, you know, and you can tell, they're puffy, and they're angry for no reason. And that's and they're you can tell they're puffy and they're Angry for no reason and that's because their actions out of control Whether it's because they're not dosing it properly. They're not dosing it at all Or I think you alluded to it. They're getting bootleg stuff and who knows what you're getting in that situation So they might think they're dosing themselves, but they're not but what I was gonna say earlier is

you know If you're already a jerk to begin with, and we can think of a particular baseball player who got in trouble for it, you know, and not one of my patients, but, you know, played volleyball with him when I was in Florida. You know, look, some people are jerks to begin with, and you give him more energy to be who they are. Well, that's the leveraging effect. Was he an asshole in the volleyball court too?

Was he really that guy? I've always wondered if he's really that guy or not like that because he comes off that way, everyone's everyone. Well, you know what? I mean, God bless him. Personality's, there's so much now that's what you're born with and still no excuse. I mean, you should overcome some of the things that are an aid,

I guess, but whatever. My point is that not to pick on anybody really, but just to give an example, um, you know, it's going to make you more of who you are. So, but but estrogen is different. It can turn you from Dr. Jekyll and to Mr. Hyde. No doubt, and we've all seen those guys in the gym, right? The guy I mentioned. So, yeah, you got to govern estrogen. It's not testosterone that's doing that now. Yeah, you got to govern estrogen. It's not testosterone that's doing that. Now, with dihydrotestosterone, I would say there's a difference if you don't control

that, not everyone has to. Matter of fact, some people have problems when they control their conversion to excess dihydrotestosterone, but I would say that tends to make it a little bit more edgy, but not necessarily irritable. And I don't mean to mens words or get into too much semgy, but not necessarily irritable. And I don't mean to meant words or get into too much semantics, but there is a difference. And some people go, wow, I speak up at work now and I didn't before.

So the edgyness can be a good thing, but you know, erasibility is what we're talking about, the edgyness or asibility with excess acid. And not to mention that the guy in the gym doing this is probably taking doses five to 10 times higher than what a replacement therapy dose would be, right? Bodybuilder doses are not the same as replacement doses.

Thus, you're gonna get larger conversions to estrogen no matter what you take. Yes. Well, not only that, but there's such a huge individual variance with everybody and how they respond to these things. I'm so glad you said this because I actually didn't know that.

And my response when people would say that about testosterone is I'd say, listen, if you're an asshole and you take testosterone, you just become a bigger asshole. That's how I'd say it's not the testosterone that's doing that. But I didn't realize that estrogen can play a big role in that. And I actually think that's actually probably one of the more common things where these people that are taking it black market that aren't having a doctor watch it. They probably are not balancing their strength. And the reason why I say that as I speak from experience, that's one of the things that you guys have constantly had to manage with me is my estrogen levels are, I'm very sensitive.

And so you guys have messed with my dosing and stuff like that several times to try to get it to that sweet spot. So I would have never, I would have never been able to do that on my own. I've tried to do things like that on my own, but it wasn't. And Estrogen has been a lot less moody. Estrogen can be too low. There's a lot of things,

thank you very much. It explains a lot right now. That does. It's all making sense. And two things, one is that one of the symptoms of low testosterone is irritability. So that's, I've read that. And then, and one of the symptoms of low testosterone is irritability. So that's, I've read that and then- Can throw off your mood.

And one of the symptoms of low estrogen, because estrogen can be too high or too low and both of them will make you feel pretty crappy. Yeah, typically in different ways, although there is some individual difference as usual in medicine. For example, with elevated estrogen, some people, it can mess with their libido in a bad way. Some people, and you would consider a good way, in other words, it elevates it. So there are some differences individually, but there are some rare few that when you over suppress estrogen have issues with libido and erectile function, along with some of the other assigns and symptoms that include

joint pain to achy joints. Yeah. So for those people, I mean, there's a sweet spot I call it for estrogen, about 15 to 20 peak-arounds per milliliter, because we find that the free testosterone comes up a little bit because you've lowered SHBG, but for someone who's sensitive to that drop, and remember, it's not going to be perfect the whole time period between dosage. So we have to float it up a little higher. And sometimes that affects the amount of free tea. And if it does negatively, then we just add a little bit more of the total to get an absolute value going higher rather than a percentage.

But the point is, yeah, we have to manage those patients a little differently because of that sweet spot concept rather than just... Well, this has been me. So, I know Dr. Todd handles a lot of my labs and I have a lot of conversations with him more than I do you, but this has been me. It's like finding that perfect sweet spot.

I'm also very sensitive to a gynecumastia. Or if I say that right, I don't think I've said that right. Yeah. And so, if we don't suppress it, then it spikes that up. If we suppress it, it goes too low, then I had joint pain. So we really had to play with the Arrimidex Amidose.

Like he's changed the timing of the dose is important too, because remember, you've got, everyone thinks it's just even tighter that you keep. No, you've got to, just like when you eat a meal, you're gonna have a spike in blood sugar and come back down, you're not going to notice that big spike.

Most of us, the same thing happens with testosterone, but on a weekly basis. So, we're pretty aggressive at our place about making sure we would urf, we're going to urf all on the side of over-suppressing estrogen, because that's easy to fix. And kind of comastia is not. Right, right. So, we can just pull off one dose of over-suppressing estrogen, because that's the easy to fix, and gynecumastia is not. Right, right.

So, you know, we can just pull off, you know, one dose of one milligram of an ash is all, and things will change in four days. That's exactly what you guys did. You guys had me on two that we pulled back to one, and that's been like the sweet spot for me. What's really interesting, too, is, and not to get too far in the weeds,

it's not okay. But, you know, there's, there's estradiol, which is what we're measuring, estradiol sensitive, because it's precise enough to be accurate, but the others are not, by the way, I think we talked about that before. But, estrone is something that can be elevated, and it's rare, but we've seen it, because we're like, hey, wait, we've got this guy nailed in terms of the sweet spot, and yet we're stopping problems, we've with gonna come ask you.

And then there's just the ones that you go, okay, there's almost, I mean, there's always gonna be an explanation we just can't figure out what it is yet. But we've made a topical surm so that, you know, like, to moxifen. Oh, wow. So that if someone, you know, is, is, is, is one of those guys that has to find

that sweet spot, it's hard to find. Yeah. Right. It's a little higher than normal. And they're getting nipple sensitivity. Well, we don't want to change it systemically, but we can apply a topical blocker. Oh, wow. So it's not getting as much absorb systemically,

but it's going to be a great deal. I didn't know they had a topical serve. That's, I had no idea. Yeah, and power pharmacy, I think the first one has to come up with it. That's a, well, that's a short story. I used to work with APS and one of the guys there, David Bruce transferred over to empower with Sean Noryan who runs the place

and they've been really good about, you know, well, before we could do a lot with compounders, now the regulations really clamp down on what you can do. It used to be what it was supposed to be, which is okay, can't figure this out. There's nothing out there that's in the right dose, right combination. We can tinker and make our own stuff. Now it's almost, yeah, well, not almost. It's definitely overly regulated, but they can still come up with things if they're willing to invest the money. And this is one of them they came up with a topical, because it makes sense for guys that have an issue. And you're left with, you know, tinkeringering ad infinitum or, hey, let's just put out the fire.

And it is great to put out the fire immediately. And by the way, on that note, if you ever experienced that, a guy in a chemistry or what we think is that, in an nipple sensitivity, that's the go to a sirm. Because the blocks are receptor, it gets in there and blocks it right away rather than waiting for the estrogen to dissipate to be in habalized because it's already anymore further blockages of the conversion from testosterone to estrogen. Great, but what about what's already there? Well, you get a blocker in there right away. So, when people call up and say, hey, I think I'm feeling a little liposensitivity, we'll

get them on the Tamaxifen typically a SIRM Immediately and then we can tinker with the national dose, but this goes back to You know the whole idea about estrogen Regulation I still don't know and again. I'll avoid naming names here, but there's a Stanford associate professor maybe or something has no clinical background as far as I know. And then there's another trainer out there claiming that, you know, he should never block estrogen.

Even one of my good friends, although he's in the middle ground, I think, Nelson Virgil, who's a great guy, is understanding that they are definitely some individuals who need estrogen control. But one of these guys claims it's all from progesterone excess, which makes absolutely no sense. But it's leading to a lot of kind of comastion, a lot of bad haircuts that I got to fix later. Somebody's got to fix because of this idea.

I don't know where it's coming from, but maybe because there are some people's when I'm getting to where they go, wait a minute, I control my action like I'm being told and the wheels fall off the wagon. Well, it's just because we haven't found the sweet spot that we need to look for. And it's not often that you run into guys like that,

but it's often enough where, yeah, it's definitely something we have to treat and be aware of. You know what this really highlights is that what you want is a place where they really pay attention to the stuff because you're gonna get testosterone from here, testosterone from there, but the key is figuring out what works for you as an individual.

And there's quite a large individual variance between people, because we are taking hormones, right? If you are on hormone therapy, you're taking hormones, that doesn't guarantee you're gonna feel great because you to figure out how it works for your body and the person that does that is your doctor, the person that's working with you. Because there are places that, okay, here's your prescription and now you're off on your own title. First let me correct something. I just said, I realize I said progesterone. This person from Stanford mentions prolactin. Prolactin, that's right. That's not. either way, not the problem. It's excesses.

But to your point, yeah, it's not so much that, I mean, it's not a Gaussian curve. It's more like this. Most people fit into this steep area underneath the curve, but there are enough of the outliers as a better, and more exactly putting it, that you got to pay attention. Okay, most people do fit into this nice, neat little area of the curve, but there are a bunch of people out here that you got to go, we got to change things up because of your

individual experience. Well, that's been me. Absolutely. Working with you guys has been paramount to the success I've had with HRT because I've been a headache with balancing that out. If it wasn't for you guys, I would have never figured it out. Now, what about when people say, well, taking testosterone, that's bad for your prostate.

You shouldn't take testosterone, low testosterone's better than high testosterone because of the prostate. Well, I believe that came from a very flawed study back and I think it was 1942, where they had three people, two of whom in hindsight should have been excluded from the study, that developed prostate cancer.

I believe I'm citing the right study, but that dogma continued for what, 70, 80 years. Bottom line is now, and that's not a good study, obviously, an end of three isn't, an end of one certainly isn't, but it's certainly underpowered to say the least. But what we now realize is it looks like, just like with breast cancer,

any estrogen-sensitive cancer, no matter fact, there's been a test for a long time that's used, namely for women, a 216 alpha-hydroxyestrone test, where we were talking about estrones earlier, those, that category contains at least two that we know are bad. There's the 16 alpha hydroxy-estrone and the four hydroxy-estrone that we know contribute to estrogen-sensitive cancers. They activate the genes for them, okay? And in men, believe it or not, don't treat the messenger guys, but we all have the

genes for prostate cancer. When I was going through med school, I remember in Grand Round, someone was giving a presentation, they said, every man in the U.S. today at age 82 has prostate cancer. And first of all, whenever you hear every always never in medicine, you go, oh, hold the phone. What? Come on. Because there's always an exception, right? Well, not in this case, apparently. And I don't know if the numbers skewed to 81 or 83 at this point. But think about that for a second. Now, it doesn't get a lot of popular press. Why? Because the life expectancy, I think, today for men is 78. It's a slow growing cancer. So the smarter doctors, urological oncologists typically will say,

whoa, let's do what they call watchful waiting. Let's see what happens. Let's monitor it. Ideally with what they call a multi-parametric MRI. So you're visualizing the lesion. And you can see as it close to the edge of the prostate or not. So is there risk of metastases? If it's growing quickly, we might consider getting a biopsy to make sure that it's, well, to see how aggressively it might be growing based on histology. But anyway, if it's slow growing, you know, I'm going to die as something else. If you're the typical male, okay? And again, we go back to individual decision making, but it looks like estrogen is the culprit

to get to the answer to your question. Once you have prostate cancer, once so genes have been activated by one of those estrones typically, then we know that dihydrotestosterone adds fuel to the fire. So you definitely want to pull back. You want to stop the conversion from testosterone

into really arguably any dihydrotestosterone. The problem with that is, and the reason why we want to avoid cancer altogether in the first place is because for some people that can be a problem. Now, on the internet, it's all over the place. Any five alpha reductase inhibitor, which is finasteride also knows perpsia and Do test ride to avid art. They're in the same family Those are known to

effectuate erectile dysfunction in some people now on the internet It's gonna look like everybody's grandmother gets it, well, grandmother no, but grandfather gets it. Because people post the negative stuff on the internet. In my practice, I've seen some people, but a very small percentage affected negatively by a five alpha reductase inhibitor. But what if you're one of those people? So he definitely want to avoid it.

And I'm sorry if I'm getting too far off topic here, but 97% of people who are diagnosed early enough with prostate cancer can resolve it or survive it however you want to put it. So there's no excuses really. Very little excuses to die of prostate cancer these days, but it takes monitoring it. This brings up a whole other topic about how to do so. A digital rectal exam is ridiculous. I mean, we're all athletes here, right? How many times you gotta take a swing at the baseball

before you're good at it? Everyone would say 10,000 swings, right? You think that proctologist has done that or urologist, whomever it is, is checking your prostate 10,000 times? I doubt it. I did it, you know, maybe five times when I was, you know, in residence, was that?

I said, I wanna sign up for that. Yeah, no, well, and it's worthless too, in the sense that unless it's grossly abnormal, which is gonna reflect a advanced cancer, you're not gonna pick it up with the edge of your longest finger, with a glove on, et cetera. So a multi-parametric MRI is something that visualizes a lesion of smalls as three millimeters.

That might be maybe a million cells. That's nothing, but it's early enough to detect it and treat it if necessary. You hear that dog? You don't need to be doing it every week anymore. I think the confusion comes from when you have prostate cancer, then they look at things like change things. It changes the distance. But that's a different context, right?

Like people will say, oh, protein activates mTOR, and mTOR can drive cancer. Well, if you have cancer, you don't have cancer. It's actually, what feeds cancer pretty much everything. Carbohydrates, proteins, even fats. We used to open up a big Pandora's Box with a whole thing about anti-aging and mTOR, because I'm in your camp in the sense that, argue and I'm being very, very general now. But with growth hormone, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um're going to have a mess. But if you're exercising, and you're using up the extra energy, the potential for things to get out of control, and by the way, you need the reparative functions, the generative

functions of MTOR, then I don't see the problems much. And we're trying to jigger it, and it gets in a little too complex, and I won't go into too much, but M-Tor is the monitor we use for really two complexes. M-Tor complex, one in M-Tor complex two. With what we've researched so far, yes, we do want to minimize M-Torck one because of its effect on the body and making cleaning up the mess that we made in the kitchen,

accidentally dropping stuff on the floor, just the stuff that happens because we're using the kitchen, a topology, right? We want to activate that. It keeps things in order. But MTORC 2, it looks like, which is also part of MTOR deactivation, right? Works the opposite, it looks like.

So we got to figure out a way to tamp down on MTORC 1 without tamping down to MTORC 2 or maybe even ramping up MTORC 2. And MTORC 2 can be activated. I told you I wouldn't do this. I'll stop here, but just one more statement. That's why we have you here as the GoD. If we can use RAPA MICEN, this is just theory, by the way, guys.

But current theory suggests that you can have a thousand fold decrease in mTORC one. But if you can maybe combine RAPA mice and use with, say, something that activates growth hormone to maybe a smaller fraction, you can change the balance. So you still get some mTORC two activation, which we've shown is necessary, it's a positive thing, right? While decreasing mTORC one to get the best of both worlds. And we'll probably find, no, not probably, we'll definitely find, I'm an eternal optist. We'll find the right drug that does that eventually.

Rappamysin is not ideal. Rappamysin, by the way, is a drug that affects, well, ostensibly affects immune functions, been used for like kidney transplant individuals. But it looks very promising in the study of antaging, because it's affecting hemorrhoids. Okay, I'll stop there. Yeah, I think if you're signaling growth,

pro-growth factors, but you're not sending a signal to grow things like muscle and bone, it's gonna be used in different ways, right? So it's like when in the 80s, when we told all the women to take calcium, but nobody didn't need weight-bearing exercise, so they just ended up with calcium deposits in their arteries, for example. Worse than that, constipation all the time.

Yeah, so. But yeah, back to the prostate. I've seen studies that show that low testosterone is correlated to increases in prostate cancer. Sorry, that's where the starter is. Sorry, just get back in the middle. That's like, you're addressing them really, really interesting. I didn't right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, just get me back in the door. That's a good idea. You're addressing really, really, I didn't know about men,

M-tor, did you know that they were fighting? Yeah, no, I did not know there was two. Two, yeah, yeah. So that's cool. Well, that's me. There is a correlation between low testosterone. And again, I'm using the word carefully, correlation. And I'll come back to that in a second between low testosterone,

coronary artery disease, type 2 diabetes, colon cancer, prostate cancer, and osteoporosis. Correlation because, yeah, we're dealing with the masses. Correlation doesn't show cause and effect. I think everybody in this room is highly unlikely, unless you're something I don't know about, or contract any of those things, except if you live long enough prostate cancer because of what I just said. I think there's ways to ameliorate that at least increase the time before we get prostate cancer,

but type two diabetes, osteoporosis. How are you going to get osteoporosis when you're training like you do every day? So, yeah, there's a correlation, but is it likely in you guys? No, but there are also other benefits to using testosterone for obvious reasons and maximizing or optimizing, we were talking about earlier, uh, quality of life quality of life. Yeah, health span, we call it not, not just longevity, but the quality of that time. So that's a very good point because I want to stop you there. So you know, living till your 90 versus living great till your 90s, very different. I've known a lot of people in the 90s.

Well, I'd rather live great to 87 than to barely get to 90. What? You're struggling for 20 years, right? Well, it was like our healthcare costs, like the vast majority, it's like the last five years of our life because you're just, you're not able to do anything,

you have to have caretakers or you could be functional, independent, and feel good up until the day you die. Well, David's in Claire, an anti-aging guy, you know, he makes the point that a lot of us don't think about too, even though it's a relatively short period. We're talking about a long period where we're sort of declining into death. Even, we don't like to, I believe.

And by the way, I've never met anybody who wouldn't make that change, that trade excuse me. Right. But it can be a painful last few moments if you're in poor health. You'd rather just have your heart stop ticking, right? It just runs out of beats rather than have a stroke and slowly melt away over a couple days or whatever. It's painful.

Sinclair makes that point. Again, I think more to our point is 20 years of misery is socks, period. Why would you want wanna go through that? And that's hopefully motivation for certainly our audience, right, to be proactive about. Do you think in our lifetime, we're gonna see like the 120's, 130's, what do you think? You think in our, you think we're getting there

and maybe the masses, I mean, because we do have, right, right, there's outliers, right? That's, well, what's the oldest we've seen? 125, I think, was the oldest. Yeah, it was 122, she's the oldest,'ve seen? 125, I think, was the oldest. Clim all was 122. 122, she's the oldest, yeah. Okay. We had run recently 117.

They tend to be gals. They tend to be smaller individuals. I was, I quote Lou Ferigno, often enough because he was talking to a friend of mine, Scott and the gym, who, Scott's like, you know, 315 pounds. And Lou thought that Scott was trying to get even bigger. It was given him a hard time.

And anyway, the upshot of it was, Scott, how many old guys do you know that are big? Think about that for a second, guys. Yeah. I don't know anybody who's huge that made it 200. The centenarians tend to be relatively small. It's easier on the body, right? It makes sense.

Cool. And there's too few the body, right? It makes sense. Cool. And there's too few of them really to get a great sense of what the special sauces for centenarians, but that seems like a pretty basic one, even if we don't have, I don't know, whatever kind of study you want to call it, you know, look around. The people that tend to live the longest are like my mom, you know, five, three, and a hundred and four pounds. Well, I mean, when you think about like all the biohacking, the anti-aging medicine that's coming out, like the what we're learning,

even on the nutrition aspect, like do you think that we're actually extending, or do you think a lot of the stuff that we're doing is just improving quality of life? I think we're just preventing death. I don't know if it's necessarily improving quality life a whole lot. What do you mean?

Well, a lot of the drugs and stuff that people take now medications, they're just sick, but they're not dead, you know, with some of the medications. Oh, yeah, you're talking about, I'm talking about like more like optimizing stuff. Yeah, that's a whole different, yeah. Yeah, I think it's an arguable point. I think the way it's presented because, yeah, I mean,

who's to say, I mean, God, I think of somebody like Stephen Hawking who's just the ultimate champion. I can't even imagine being trapped in your body like that. And yet, he lived to pretty ripe old age and was ostensibly anyway pretty happy. Most of us would be like, hey, if I'm trapped like that, put me out of my misery, am I right? I mean, yeah, that, so to what degree is quality of life stymied enough?

I don't know the answer to that question, but yeah, I think what we're finding now is certainly I think last year God knows it was related to COVID or not, but you know, we lost year in terms of longevity so we haven't really made a whole lot of gains in the last decades. Oh, we went back a little bit. We went back by one year from what I read. Oh, interesting. But for men, anyway.

But going forward, I think we've definitely gained more strides, I think, to your point, in quality of life along the way, because we've found better ways, for example, to deal with diabetes. Sure. We were kind of limping along with just insulin, and now we have so many more drugs. That's just one disease. Yeah, that's true.

Right? And that's what I focused on. I mentioned the book I was, that I finished, actually, finally. Going forward, we've got a lot of techniques to write the health of an individual that, by default, you would think would also extend their life. I mean, if you've got diabetes, let's face it. You know, even if it's well controlled,

your longevity is gonna be an issue compared to the normal individual. Although, you know, that brings up another can of worms. What was interesting in them, some of them at Foreans studies, and I'll leave this alone too, but, you know, those that didn't have diabetes and took metformin, I've got something to forget it now, but anyway, controlling, let's just say that controlling your sugar's period is good for you. And lowering and for different mechanisms than just lowering your sugar, there's AMP activation, et cetera.

But at the end of the day, if you can use this autophagy concept, I was talking about cleaning up the mess, you're more likely to run better than if you don't. And certainly the implication is if you're taking care of the kitchen, cleaning up the mess is that the kitchen is going to last longer too. Sorry, I went kind of round about there. I'm just trying to make a simple point. And what you mean, it's simple or is that you mean just having cleaner, healthier cells is what you're saying. Yeah.

And it goes back to, and David Sinclair does a pretty good job of this and not that I'm going to butcher it, but he uses a CD analogy. You've got data there, and if you don't clean up the kitchen as I like to say it, you don't clean up the cell, that data, the DNA gets corrupted. And so call that the recipe for the meals you're making in the cell. When the recipe gets corrupted, then you're making stuff that doesn't taste good, that doesn't work well, okay? So this autophagy process goes back

and cleans up the DNA and writes the recipe, okay? So that things function properly. And part of that also gets rid of a bad recipe. Well, it's not the analogy, it's gonna lose its power here. But, you know, if you can't fix the recipe in that cell, part of a top, he says, all right, well, those are just getting rid of the cell, we're gonna get a replacement cell.

And the beauty of that is, you know, think of it now to change analogies to a car. If the car hasn't been tuned properly, not only does it not run itself, that one cell's not running right, but it's spewing exhaust all over the place, toxic exhaust, and affects the cells around it. I know we're going way off topic here guys. I apologize. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I mean, great results. So how important is testosterone for women? We know that as being the male hormone, but is it also very important for women? And what are their signs and symptoms of low testosterone and optimizing for women? Is it similar?

It's exactly the same. Really, again, I mentioned the study in the 1950s. When I first started practicing, I had way more female clients, patients than I did men. Really? For whatever reason. And then I thought that was going to continue. And then there was a women's health initiative which got into more estrogen replacement, and dealing with symptoms of estrogen deficiency,

hot flashes, night sweats. And I think there was some crosstalk there, some confusion because, first of all, the one, really, for me anyway, the one flaw in the study in the Women's Health Initiative is that they used, for the most part, they used, sorry, premerin as the estrogen replacement. Now, I know we're talking about testosterone, but think about the average person in the public. Hormone replacement leads to stroke and cancer. You go, okay, well, that encompasses all the hormones. No, it's estrogen, and in premerins,

Dan's for pregnant marioorin. They're extracting estrogens from horses, okay? And roughly, not quite, I think it's more 45% of it, let's call it half of that, is equivalent, which is that thousand times more potent on a human uterus than human estrogens, like estrogens. So you wonder why we were having so many issues, and I think it was an increase of like 8,000, 10,000 if I'm getting that right for both stroke and an extra-intensive cancer is when women were using this.

So my point is that that hormone replacement got a bad name. And so women started steering away from all the hormones, including testosterone, but to your point, yeah, there are still not too many that I meet, but I've got probably a unique swath that comes to my office by the time they get there. But women who think, oh no, no, testosterone, and men too, who think testosterones for men and etchants for women. But we share the same hormones just different ratios.

But what it treats is the same thing. libido, lack of energy, good mood, body composition changes. And I harp on that one because personality can overcome the first three. But body composition, that's something that I don't care how hard you try. And I see this over and over again, you know, the professional athletes, the formal pros are the last ones to make it in because they like you guys know every trick in a book to jigger in that last little bit of fat off the body and then they finally get to, you know, 55 or 60 go, okay, screw it. I'm out of tricks.

I'm tired of using them all. What's wrong? Well, we just got to put the leverage and test off. Is it harder, easier, the same to balance the women's hormones out when taking testosterone. Like so if you get a client that's a female, taking testosterone, are they harder to balance? First of all, they're more fun. Ha, ha, ha. Harder to balance. Why are they more fun?

Because they're a little bit more tricky because you've got other hormones that affect those. More fun for you because it's challenging. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause you know, you've got progesterone and estrogen that play a bigger role to some degree in females because of the

the uterus and the vagina than in a male where you're just dealing with you know an excessive estrogen or deficiency causing some we'll call them you know mood issues with females you know you've got these hormones it's not just about mood you know the for example the production of the vagina is very friable so So if we suffer a deficiency in, in estrogen for too long, it can, it can ruin a lot of things, you know. I can't speak directly because I don't have a vagina, I promise. But despite being accused, no. And the playing field sometimes if I didn't, you know,

make the victory or two comments are brutal. Males are totally, yeah, brutally or two comments are brutal. Males are totally yeah, brutally. My mother, yeah. Now, but the, uh, the bottom line is, you know, the hormone works the same for a male as it does a female roughly 10% of the male dose has used for a female, but, um, I don't know, man, it's like, it's pretty easy because you just give them some testosterone and they're happy and they're tails wagging like a dog and they don't care about much else.

With women, they like to fine-tune it, I think, a little bit more often enough, at least in my practice. And with guys, I would say, and this is a generalization, some of the side effects that are possible, aren't as noticeable. For example, we were talking about, you know, the source of prostate cancer. Well, prostate enlargement is furthered by dihydrotestosterone. If you live long enough, you're going to have a scene out of what was it with colleagues would trouble with the curve, where he's sitting there in the opening scene trying to urinate because it happened a hard time because the prostate groans with a lot

the prostate surrounds the the urethra and Like a donut it, you know if you put it in coffee. It's gonna Swel outward, but inward to and it starts to choke off the the passageway there, right? So guys not gonna notice that till he's probably in the 70s on average Women I think are more in tune to the possibility of acne, which is, again, not from testosterone directly, but a metabolite dihydrotestosterone. So we have to govern that more.

So with a female, with a male, again, I'm generalizing here. Hair loss is a male's concern, but it's really driven by the way you chose your parents. So male pattern and baldness, you might slow it down a little bit, or I guess better put, you might accelerate a little bit with exposure to dihydrotestosterone. The female dihydrotestosterone, I mean, how many females do you know suffer from male pattern baldness? Not too rare, yeah.

So they'll notice the hair loss a little bit more, so you've got to be a little bit more careful in just being aware because again, it's all fixable. And that's the hard part with females is they hear it's a possibility and they go, okay, I'm punching, I'm not even going to try this. Yeah. They go, whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, if any of this stuff occurs and I would say it happens to maybe 20%, again, it has to do with the way you chose your parents. We can go off this and it'll all reverse.

Okay, so what are, by the way, let's just stay for the record there. Hair loss, acne, thickening of the vocal cords, and one of the fears that's not really justifiable is literal enlargement because getting back to what you said earlier, we're talking about bodybuilder dosages where you got that much exposure, right? So that's what you just went to the fair. She's always one asshole. But bodybuilder doses is way different than what you guys are doing. Yeah, and that's part of the problem is because, again, the internet, for all its value, you know, that's one of the detriments, is that there's misinformation out there, and it's

not explained well enough. But what I tell people male or female is you've got about a six month window during which you can stop and it'll all reverse. Whatever it is it's going on. For example, hair follicles, they may drop a hair. And they do, by the way, naturally. But it won't get inflamed and damaged at the point where it won't regenerate a hair for at least six months. So if you go, okay, I've noticed some hair thinning,

well, you can stop and it'll all come back. Or you can attack the culprit, which is the excess dihydrotestosterone, which is way more endogenic, meaning having that same effect on the hair follicle, and the hair growth, and the wrong places, et cetera. And you accomplish the same thing. And typically, I mean, it's classic.

I'll have explained this in the intro, and if I get one of the 20% that comes in at the 90 day and they say, you know what, everything's going great, but I think I'm getting some of those hairs on my chin, you know, that my grandma had. And then we come back to that in a second, but I'll say, oh, well, remember, we talked about that. Don't panic, we can go off the, oh, what do we do about it? Before I can even, but I'll say, oh, well, remember, we talked about that.

Don't panic. We can go off the, oh, wait a minute, before I can even finish the sentence. Well, I'm not going to go off it. Forget that. I'll just pluck it. Never mind. Forget I've been brought up. Wait, wait, wait, or we can use a five-out for a ductase inhibitor like finasteride.

And this will segue into some of the things we're offering, but finasteride is what we call a type 2 inhibitor, and that works for the prostate for the most part, but also for the skin and hair a bit. It's a good trial because if you're going to have side effects as a male or female with things like libido or rectal function for a male, you'll know it with the dose of finasteride, which has a very short half-life. Okay, but a stronger five-offer ductase sanitary is due tasteride, which used to be called avidart, and that works on type

one and type two receptors, and mainly the skin, so we're looking at, right, and protects male or female against those things. And so we win. But just a quick note about the hair, if I haven't said it before, but women forget, men too. Men and women have a hair in the same place. As women just typically have a lot less of it, right? And grandma had the hair on her chin if she's gonna have any, you know, two or three over here when she was 30.

It's just at 70, 75, she said, stop, stop giving a shit in there. And that's when you notice it, but ask any female, if she's got that, if she's willing to admit it, and then she should. Just like us men in her and our ears, you know what I'm saying right now, and you're in your early 40s,

you're blocking in some of that, probably about 60, you don't give a shit no more, right? Shoot. And I thought I dodged that, boy, I didn't know any better, but then about 38, all of a sudden, just cropping up there, and like, where that stuff come from.

It's genetic, and either how do you don't? Yeah, I have a friend, a female friend who works with you guys and she got, she started noticing a little bit of oily skin and I told the same thing, it's well you can go off, no, no, no, no, no. I love the way I feel, my body composition is great,

and then she managed it and now it's all good. Take home is that we have a fix for it and that's why we were talking before the show. It's part of the balancing process. Love my job, because there's an answer for everything and I can sleep great at night knowing that. We just got to get the word out so they don't suffer in silence or not even try because they go,

well, I've had actresses that go, I cannot think about having extra hair or worse, I guess acne. I go, wait, if I can just talk to him for a second, we could do it prophylactically, meaning start with something that blocks the conversion to DHT and get that out of the way from the start. Now, how do you speak to any concerns, like some women may have in terms of like exogenous testosterone, and also they're trying to get pregnant, or, you know, they're trying to

go through that process, like, is that something that, you know, maybe you can just consider later, is that something that is... What's a great question, depends upon, you depends upon the timing, obviously, how old they are, if they're candidist for replacement therapy or not. But arguably, getting prepared for pregnancy, if you've got a shortage of testosterone, it's ideal to get on TRT. The uterus is a muscle after all, right? And being in great condition prior to pregnancy, I mean, in Chinese medicine, I would argue,

in Western medicine too, I would agree, if you do it properly, you can come out better post-pregnancy than before pregnancy. Why? Because your body, a female's body, is doing the best it can, releasing all the right hormones to develop the fetus. And if you take advantage of that, you're going along for the ride.

You don't abuse that. You don't stay up too late or don't work too hard or wear wear where you're carrying. You should come out ahead. But you definitely don't want to be on testosterone once pregnant. And I would argue that you want to plan ahead to be off testosterone for at least a month, preferably more like three months, at least, so that your body re-equilibrates. It's hormones, so that when you get pregnant, you start that journey, clean, so to speak. But in preparation for, and certainly afterwards, testosterone's great, if you need it. All right, so you guys offer a lot of other things aside from hormone replacement therapy. I wanna talk a little bit about peptides

and some of the other products you guys offer. So what I knew about peptides before I met you guys were these were things that had real effects in the body, but I'd see them be sold online in these kind of gray market, websites, and they'd sell them like research chemicals and whatever, I said, you know, I don't wanna mess with any of this stuff

without any doctor supervision, these real effects in the body, then I met you guys and you guys do all that. First off, what are peptides? Like what are they? What are they? A brief history of, you know, how they even found them. So, okay, I think we can pit it on insulin.

Insulin is a peptide that, as you know, is required, not required. But certainly if you have type one diabetes that's required for treatment, type two, it can be an option if you get that far along. Insulin is a peptide. It does wonders if you have diabetes. It can be a literal lifesaver. So I want to say that was the first one that we studied and we're able to make Into this day. I mean, it's it's it's around as a lifesaver when it was that when did it when that come in?

God, I'm terrible with history. I want to say like the 1930s, but that's a swell. It goes that far back Well, we used to take it didn't we take insulin for animals and give it to people first? Probably so I didn't know it went that far back. Yeah. Oh, sorry. I don't have the hard drive. I've looked it up. I just don't remember, remember that,

but I haven't written down somewhere if I didn't include it in the book. I haven't written down somewhere, but. So that was the very first thing to do. Well, there's a lot of levers to find out how to do that, right, to replace insulin. And so I think that led to the beginnings. And I don't even think they knew in the beginning, if I remember correctly, that it was a peptide.

Again, I apologize. I don't remember the history, but it lost favor. I want to say peptides in general, not insulin, but I want to say the 70s or 80s, because in general peptides, which by the way are just, there's a formal definition and there's some conflicting definitions, but roughly 50 amino acids in a group or a peptide. And above that, it's a protein. But you know, some people refer to growth homosipeptide and growth homos 191.

That's all it is. And 15 amino acids. No, up to 51. Up to 50. Oh, up to 51. Up to 50, so yeah. Oh, up to 50, got it. In a particular sequence. It's just a classification, I mean, call whatever you want to call it.

Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't know that it was that closely related to a protein though. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's just a shorter protein, if you will. Right? A smaller grouping of amino acids. But the upshot is, you know,

well, the reason why they lost some favor in terms of research is because they were so short acting. Okay, and insulin is great. And of course, they have some longer acting insulin that made the insulin even better. But some of these other purposes is like, okay, like Kispeptins, a perfect example. If you want to replace endogenous production of testosterone, not replaced, that's the wrong word, but if you want to enhance it, you can use ACG, which is a homolog of LH, luteinizing hormone, or you can use cuspeptin. Well, cuspeptin takes, you know, four injections a day, because it's such a short actin peptide.

No one's gonna do that. The effectiveness, forget about the efficaciousness, the effectiveness is gonna suck, because no one's gonna do that four times a day. Right, right. So anyway, now we found that we can put some extra chains on these that improve their longevity, like going from Somorlin,

which was one of the first, used to be called, gerif, growth hormones to create a hogs. Now we have longer ones, like Epo-Morlin, well, that's a bad example. CJC 1295, which is a growth hormone releasing hormone, not a different mechanism, that makes it even better. CJC 1295, which is a growth hormone releasing hormone, not a different mechanism

that makes it even better. And then we have improvements upon that. Peptide on my medics, and now I'm getting off a little bit again, I'm sorry, but I viewed a moron or Mk677, which has a really long half life, comparatively so, and makes it way more effective for getting your body to produce its own growth hormone. So with peptides, the cool part I think

is that, and I can remember being in medical school over at pre-med at CSUN and seeing in the physics department, all over the walls, all these peptides that were drug candidates and stuff, and I'm thinking, why is that in the physics department? Well, because really we're talking about structure. I liken it to, do you remember, you guys are way too young for tinker toys? No, I don't. Do you remember tinker toys? Okay, so I have to explain. Yeah. Think about that. You can take these peptides and put them together to your hearts content in terms of your imagination, any way you want. And the structure is the key because it fits, you know, like, like just like a key, into a lock, a certain way,

depend upon the structure of those teeth, same thing with the tinker toys. And so I think this is a huge area for what we'll call drug development, peptide development, right, because we're gonna figure out what works, what this lock, the key for this lock will work even better. You know, so what are some of the biggest sense insulin, what are some of the biggest breakthroughs? What are some of the biggest breakthroughs

that we've seen there? Because now, and I feel like it for at least for my experience, it got really popular at the same time as Psalms. And I feel like a lot of people lump peptides and Psalms together, even though I know they're different, because they got popular, at least in that's what I would I have experienced and seen. And on the internet, like everyone's talking about it. So a lot of people think that along those lines, I think it's, I know that why experienced in seeing and on the internet, like everyone talking about it. So a lot of people think, yeah, and along those lines, I think it's, I know that why they became popular at the same time because there's like a gray market where people can buy them as research, quote unquote,

research chemicals requiring no doctor supervision, no prescription, and they have real effects in the body. So first off, so arms are different than peptides, totally. And I think, you know, it's kind of a loaded question because, you know, how do you determine the asset question? I think the reason why it's become popular is because the gym crew.

The gym in athletics is a great proving ground for a lot of these things, because either one or you don't. It either works or it doesn't. That group is very scrutinizing group They're very critical the explanations for why it works are sometimes Leriously ludicrous I mean But that aside the testing ground is a good one. Yeah, so I think you find a lot of these things related to body composition

You know muscle strength and performance. And that's why they kind of came up together because that area is looking for anything that will enhance performance. So my first experience was with the BPC 157. My buddy Jordan Shallow and Ben Greenfield were the ones that turned me on to it when I tore my Achilles. And it blew my mind how effective it was. And so that was my first like real introduction to it.

Would you consider that one of the, like we were to say, sense insulin, what are some of the biggest breakthrough peptides right now because I know there's a whole host of them. What would you say are some of the biggest ground-breaking ones? Well, again, yeah, it's arguably dependent upon what you're focused at. So in the world of sports and rehabilitation regeneration,

even that gastric juice derivative, okay, it has done wonders for, and this is all anecdotal, by the way, which is kind of a bummer because, and this is the way it works. We don't have any fantastic studies yet when you'll perspirek perspective, double-blind, random, placebo control, all that kind of stuff. But anecdotally, yeah, like your story and so many others, it works great. The studies we have so far, animal studies, it shows that BPC157 works great for repairing tendons,

joints, skin, and really it works great with gastric juices, duh, for IBD and IBS too. And you can use it locally. Yeah, well, systemically, you can't poke your gut per se. You're taking like a pill, are you squirting your mouth? Funny you say that, because yeah, you can use it orally. It would only hit the first part of the presumably, the first part of the gastrointestinal tract.

But systemically, it's gonna go through your bloodstream and hit the lower too. So people have used it for that successfully, presumably again, I don't have the studies to prove, nobody does. But that's one that has worked brilliantly so far. It looks like that's a great one. So if you don't, if we don't have the studies really to prove this stuff, and we're kind of in this test phase, how is it possible that you guys are allowed

to prescribe it? Then how can you get away with doing that if we have as good question? I think there's a lot of gray area there. One thing we do is we just, we go through pharmacies. Okay, none of this research chemical stuff, which I don't even know a lot I want to know because we have a pharmaceutical outlet, so we'll use it. And there's a, there's completely different regulations. They have to be very strict with their standards. Yeah.

All the material has to be tested through the parties that I'm familiar with. I mean, maybe the research chemicals have third party testing, and it's just as pure. I don't know, but, you know, there's a, there's a, um, triad of care, manufacturer, um, uh, doctor, and pharmacy that, that is kept intact and so I trust the pharmacies. I don't, again, I don't want to say anything bad, but I just, I have a license. So I need to do things that are right.

So even to get into the pharmacy though, I would think there would have to be some sort of research around it to know that it's safe and that it's not like there's, is it that wise? Because we're talking about just a bunch of immunosacids. It's so low on the risk. There's some test ties that will not like there's, is it that wise? Because we're talking about just a bunch of amino acids, it's so low on the rest. There's some pesticides that will not be on the market

that are not available in a pharmacy that we can talk about, like for example, as far as I know, you can't get Follestatin 344 in a pharmacy right now. And yet that one's great for the gym guys because it helps block myostatin. Oh, wow. Sorry, agonizes, sorry. Agonizes myostatin so that you can help build muscle tissue. There are others though that have been around for a long time, the thymacin, thymacin

alpha-1, thymacin beta-4, zedaxa is a brand, PT-141, Valisi, I think is the... So why haven't these made it into the pharmacy? Well, they have. The ones that I'm talking about, they actually have come out as brands, and now we have the generic form available in the pharmacy. So some are available. Some are not.

I would say, like, for example, the one that's odd to me, to your point, is I beat a mourn, because I haven't seen that one listed as a brand anywhere, and yet you can get it at any pharmacy, any compounding pharmacy that I know of. And that's the peptide omminetic I was talking about. In terms of groupings, the ones that have gotten the most favor, the ones that seem to be the most popular are other GHs to critagogs. I beat a more in Ipa, Moreland, CJC 1295. Used to be GHRPs, they had GHRP two and six,

but as of two mays ago, the FDA pulled those off the market and you can't get those as a farmer seeing more. So there is some gray area there, I agree. Now would you say that's because those all impact growth hormone and growth hormones probably like we're when considers the fountain of youth. I mean, it just kind of improves everything, makes everything better.

Is that why? From what I understand from the pharmacies explaining it to us, it has to do with the bulk compounds and what's been approved to be manufactured on this particular list by a pharmacy. So, yeah, I mean, again, I don't want to start anything with anybody. You know, government is what it is. And, you know, there's a thought process that goes on there, which is to the benefit of the public, but oftentimes in the details, you know, things go awry. They want to make sure that the public's not being poisoned, right?

I get it. But sometimes you go, there's no rhyme or reason to why they would pull, for example, GHRP 2 and 6, but not pull the rest or let the rest stay along with GHRP 2 and 6. So I can't respond to that because that's not my bailiweight. That's not my fear. I go with what the pharmacy tells me. But yeah, sometimes you just go.

So I have experience with Ibuda more and with through you guys. And I mean, it definitely works. I put on muscle with it quite visibly. I could feel it. So it's definitely doing something. But I would not want to do something like that without getting monitored by a doctor because it's making my growth hormone go up. And I don't know what my insulin's doing or my blood sugar,

how it's responding or what else is going on. I see people taking these things and have no doctor supervision. I think that's crazy. Well, let me back up and say I'm a registered libertarian. So, you know, starting from that point, I could go... I mean, teach their own is my point, but I think I wouldn't want to do it without a doctor looking at everything.

And I'm with you. I would choose as a registered libertarian to have it done through a doctor. And so, you know, stepping forward from that statement, I totally agree. And I think that's that part of, I just don't want to be told to do it, I guess. Of course. But I agree with you because it can raise blood sugar. And there's certain of those G.H. secreta goggles that will raise aldosterone and cortisol. I viewed them more and by the way, it doesn't raise cortisol, so it's great. There's some side effects with it,

because it works through the grueling pathway that make it hungry. But there's things you'd want to know about, and certainly if you were say, someone who had prostate cancer, extant, prostate cancer you're dealing with, or skin cancer, you know, you cancer you're dealing with, or skin cancer, you wouldn't want to be taking growth hormone.

So we might want to, well, you shouldn't do ibionimor if you have it. If you don't have it, but you're at the age where if we test you get it for it, the likelihood that the test will be fruitful. In other words, at 30, you know, what are you testing for? Melanoma for it's pretty low chance or colon cancer, whatever it is. At age 50, you go, that's a higher yield test. Let's test you first for some of these cancers that would respond to growth hormone and make sure you don't have it before we give it to you. Right, right. You mentioned another one called PT-141. So I, you know, work with one of your

associates and, you know, as we're talking, I'm like, he's telling me all these different products and compounds and peptides. And he talked about this one. And this is a libido boosting compound, not like Viagra or Psyallus that, you know, just to give him a blood flow. This literally increases your libido. So he says, do you want to try it? So of course, you know, just to give him a blood flow. This literally increases your libido. So he says, do you wanna try it? So of course, you know, send me some, let me give this a shot.

So I got excited. And it's, I mean, it's weird. It actually is weird. I looked up, it has a bunch of other positive effects from a two. And even like, this is the one that did your skin can get tan from a two. Well, that's initially why they developed it.

Was for that, right? Is that my current? Yeah, it's a cool story. The guy, I'm not gonna remember his name, I wanna say it was Mick Hayward or? Is that in my career? Yeah, it's a cool story. The guy, I'm not going to remember his name, I want to say it was Mick Hayward or something like that, but I just probably screwed it up. He was developing Melana Tan 2, which was, it works on Melana Cortan's system, Melana Cortical, what a... Yeah.

And that's to improve your tanning ability. And the idea was for someone like, from English descent, very fair skin or something. And I think they actually sold the patent to Australia where they have a lot of English immigrants who started Australia with this fair skin to protect you from sun damage. So you can get a tan without having to go in the sun?

Exactly. And, you know, sounds good having to go in the sun? Exactly. And, you know, sounds good. But anyway, the guy who invented it used a double the dose. This is the way the story goes. And I'll screw it up. But you guys can look it up online and it's told somewhere. Double the dose and had like an eight hour erection.

Which, you know, you go, well, that's great, I guess, if you're, you know, in Las Vegas somewhere, you've got a lot of money to spend. but eight hours still seems like a long time, but the problem was it also made him nauseous. And he was vomiting, not just nauseous. He was vomiting too. So anyway, that's where he said, oh, well, this is working because it obviously also helped

his libido. And then they developed a product called, I think it's called Valisi, it's a brand, again, going back to some of these that are already branded, and they marketed it to females for some reason only, but it works for guys too, and it works neurochemically, not just, it does help with erectile function, but as you said, not like the nitrogoc side, not like a PT5 inhibitor,

like, the virus. Yeah, exactly. You said not like the nitrogoc side, like not like a PT5 inhibitor like Vagorox. But like even if you noticed, you know, dogs and estrus will have an increased lordotic curve. I mean, really, like if you ever try it, you go, how come my back is flat? It's really weird. It is really weird.

So it works on libido for both guys and gals and erectile function for men. It's a pretty cool treat. It actually lasted for me, because I've tested it now a few times. It's like 48 hours. Like I noticed it for like two days, the increase in the libido for me.

And I use a small, I use it very, very small. I did some other thing, at least the article, I think Katrina found some stuff on some of the positive benefits of me. No, remember I told you for getting pregnant and stuff. That was what fascinated her. I was telling her about it. She was reading it up on it and she was saying there was some benefits for her trying

to get pregnant from using it. What would that be? Maybe because they have more sex. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I don't have the hard drive space. That's why I keep a lot of notes. But you're correct. There's probably about a half dozen things in addition to what we've talked about, whether it be an antioxidant effect, or because remember, it's working neurochemically as well as physiologically on the genitalia. So there are other benefits to it for sure. And this is something that you use like four times a month, like you're on a weekend,

you're hanging out with your wife, girlfriend, whatever. Presently you're on a weekend, you're hanging out with your wife, or girlfriend, whatever. Presently you could use as much as you want. You have to give yourself some lead times, I recall, and that typically lasts typically 46 hours, but you know. I'd notice the effects, yeah, like 24, 48 hours. One of the things I remember is, because I test out, I wanna say everything,

I don't wanna misspeak, but I think I've tested out anything because I gotta, it's my job, right? But I can remember sitting in the passenger seat of a car and, you know, part of me, you know, popping wood and going, okay, this is not good, man. It does last longer for some people than four to six hours, and that can be inconvenient. What is the lead time for? What would you say, a couple of, I heard you just say one to four hours? They'll, the literature says, like, yeah, two to four hours.

I'd say half an hour. Oh, okay. Yeah. That was me, that was me about 30, 45 minutes. Yeah, I've, I've, I've, I actually felt better at giving a little more lead time. Did you? Yeah, yeah.

So I messed with it like a half hour hour for, and then when I give it like two hours or four, I felt like the, no nausea. No, nothing at all. I got a little flushing, little skin flushing in the, in the face. I noticed the skin thing too. Like I noticed like the, like the, like the no nausea? No, nothing at all. I got a little flushing, little skin flushing in the face. I noticed the skin thing too. Like I noticed like the normal,

like in the way I noticed was, I was in the sun. And you know, obviously I've been in the sun but the Julian times growing up. And so I have an idea of like, oh, when I'm in the sun for a half hour hour, I get a little bit of, I got like double the color I would normally get. That's the one thing.

That's the one thing. That's the one thing. That's the one thing. That's the one thing. People that don't want to get tan will say, I can't use this as often as I'd like because it's what I think. I think it's a hydroxyl ligand for all the nerds out there. I think it's only one ligand different than the melanotan 2. So you do have that tanning side effect.

And for some, if you use too much melanotan or this product, you take on almost a grayish look rather than a darker look. I mean, I really liked it because it was very minimal time I had to be in the sun. if you use too much Melana Tan or this product, you take on almost a grayish look rather than darker looks. I mean, I really liked it because it was very minimal time I had to be in the sun and I felt like I'd double the benefits for the tanning. Well, you know what happens to those, like where you have dark spots,

sunspots I guess they call them, they'll make those darker than ever too. It's just like having more Melanon. Yeah, so. Now, what about, okay, so you guys also work with oxytocin? I did not know this until recently. Now, this is not like potocin that they give pregnant women. This is, this is,

well, potocin is the actual chemical that's being released. Oxytocin is, you know, what we're making to do something similar. So now, what is it? Is it a nasal spray? Is it an injection? And how does it, and this is like the love bonding chemical? Yeah.

So I have yet to try it, but I'm so glad. So one of the reasons why women will produce this is because the theory goes that it helps with the bonding to the, you know, you go through this tremendous trauma of giving birth. And then you've got this thing, this baby, and you gotta continue taking care of it,

even though you're exhausted and it was very painful. Well, it helps you attach to the baby and feed it. I mean, this is just theory and who knows. Well, along those lines, is there a connection to women that have that, what's the word I'm looking for? Were they autism? No, no, no, no, no.

Where women don't want to be with their baby afterwards. Is there a suppression potentially of? The theories there are a suppression. Yeah, where they hit. That's more postpartum depression. Yeah. Yeah. Is it connected to all the oxytocin though?

Like, if they're not producing very much of it, is there been anything around? Well, if they haven't breastfed, I guess I should say that that activates. Breastfeedingfed, I should say that that activates, breastfeeding itself, I should have said, activates oxidation release. So it encourages, I guess, the active it encourages and you gotta get it started, I guess, to further it.

But yeah, if you're autistic, apparently, you don't react to oxytocin. So that could happen for, I guess, a female who has, I don't know, I haven't read the research. Did you not know that this oxytocin that you guys work with, is it, how does this administer? Well, the first administration was, well, of course, intervenous, and they use it patocin, I should say,

to clamp off the blood supply to the uterus and the placenta. You want to remove the placenta and you want to stop any bleeding there. But for bonding, they started using it nasally. Internasal spray, they've tried larger doses because the difficulty absorbing it sublingually. And I found clinically that it's kind of honestly as a crapshoot as to, you know, people either, you know, presumably have plenty of oxytocin. And so if you add more, what's the difference, right?

There is an escrow to it. And they say, well, I don't know as much difference. And then there's others that go, wow, that made all the difference. You know, my wife and I are getting along so much better or my husband and the lie are getting along so much better. Wow. So really, I don't think it's that it's ineffective so much as that there's just some people that are short in it,

like anything else, you know. So if you're deficient or whatever, you can unlock better trauma. Then you would notice a difference. And people are 12. And people are telling you, yeah, we use this and I just feel like I'm happier, more, I want a bond, I want a cuddle, I want it more connected. Wow, that's fascinating. And it's in it's in it's intranasal. So it's like a spray.

Intranasal, I think, is the most effective from what I've found, but they've gotten the, the ODT tablets to a point where they've got enough of a concentration, enough strengths that you can use it that way too, and people will experience benefit. But I would say, and maybe it's because it's faster acting, I don't know, but the internasal spray tends to work the best. The problem is that it's harder to keep. You have to keep it refrigerated and that actually you should keep it always refrigerated. But the internasal spray is a little bit more fragile.

We'll call it. Okay. Now back to the growth hormone peptides and secreta gods, how much do they raise growth hormone? Could you compare this to taking actual growth hormone? So like if you were to use Ibuda moron, for example, would that be comparable to using like a, you know, one or two I use, for example,

of growth hormone? Yeah, I mean, two or three. You're not, you can compare them to answer your question technically. Yeah. So that, you know, you can get them to answer your question technically. Yeah. So that, you know, you can get your IGF one up into the 300-350s. I've seen a 460 before, which you would think is physiologically impossible, because to answer the question, typically you're going to get the equivalent of two, sorry, three

to four, I use of exogenous growth hormone. Wow, okay. But that's gonna be limited by what we call the negative feedback loop because your body's producing it. So you could take three, four capsules of ibupamorn and your body's gonna say, talks at the hand. Got it. It's enough.

You have this negative feedback loop affecting your ability to produce more. So in that way, you could argue that you're staying within the natural for what that means because you know how I feel about that. Natural gets to get sick and die one day. We don't know if that's ideal or not, but you're going to get to what you had when you were say 20. And I consider if you don't get up into 300, that's treatment failure.

But to answer your question, yeah, the maximum and what you should expect using one of these secretedogs should be the equivalent of, say, three or four I use a growth hormone. You're not going to get the effect of, you know, a bodybuilder dose or say an HIV treatment dose or say, nine I use twice a day or something like that. So I had my mother-in-law actually used to take growth hormone and a very mild dose. And they heard, her husband for years did it, absolutely loved it. She's always asking me about it. And would this be something, she's in her 60s,

would this be something that she could take and that would be great for her? Presumably yes, because as long as your pituitary is still working, you should be able to encourage it if you will to grow, not to grow, excuse me, to produce more. And what happens is the fancy word is, what is the fancy word? Well, anyway, you regenerate the pituitary so that you can use a lesser dose with time.

And that was proven by Dr. Richard Walker a long time ago. He was involved in the Jaref development, what became some oral inter and generic. But that's, and then, you know, the beauty of that too is when you go off it, you're not starting at zero and waiting for your body to restart, you're actually here and, you know, at a much higher dose, not super physiologic, but super physiologic. So it comes back down to whatever a six-year-old

would have been producing if she stopped. Yeah, I noticed, well, I mean, all the stuff you're supposed to notice, but I definitely noticed skin and nails quite a bit, along with, of course, strength and sleep, all that stuff. But it was a real nice mild, and I've used it a couple times, the Ibuda Morning. Well, what's, you're not old enough yet, but one of the cool things I enjoy about anything that raises the growth hormone levels is that, you know, as you get older, you desiccate, right? You dry out. So I think the, you know, it's estimated we're about 70% water when we're first bored and then if you make it to 80, you're about 50% water, right? Right. So some of what we attribute to muscle gain, I will tell people, is not actual muscle fibers being grown,

but rehydrated if you will. You know, you're putting water back in the cell where it's supposed to be. So if you, yeah, well, yeah. But so also when you get on the scale and you're measuring your body composition, that's gonna be attributed to muscle. Got it.

Not fat, right? And so, anyway, it's a great way. It's a very safe way to do it, not only because, you know, one of the arguments is that, and again, I'm just going natural versus unnatural. I'm not saying one's better than the other. You know, you've got a more square curve with exogenous, whereas the, you know, you're encouraging your pituitary to make its own, because the word I was looking for is you've recrudesced the gland, and so it's going more along its natural

cycle of, and curve of release, but you can't overdose on it if that's possible. Now that is possible, because that's really definition of acromegally, where someone has a, for example example a tumor on the gland the pituitary gland and it's causing to produce too much and you get the swollen, not the swollen but the enlarged features you know are you familiar with acromion? Yeah, under the giant giant. Yeah, giant. That's that's no bueno so you can overdose on it so with J. Sircrete dogs you're protecting yourself against that presumably. Wow that's fascinating and you you guys haven't tried that one yet, have you?

I have. Oh yeah, I noticed you noticed I was a deep sleep. I thought my sleep input. Like your dreams, right? Just in general, I just thought, that would I be a moron? Yes. That's important to note because with some of these, you'll get a cortisol release, which will not help you sleep.

Ibutamorons unique in the sense that it will not increase your production of cortisol, which is an adrenal hormone, which is when you're under stress. So, yeah, a lot of people say that about exogenous growth hormone and those geostecreta dogs in general that don't have that cortisol release to come with it. Yeah, I just felt that was one of all the things I noticed the most actually. It was like, man, when I take this, I sleep really well. Now, what about the cognitive enhancing ones? Like, I hope I'm saying this right,

Selanck, is that one? And yeah, Selanck and Simax, those work interestingly to calm you. And one of the theories behind cognitive dysfunction, including Alzheimer's is that we spend, you can overdo it. You can overexcite a nerve and if there's an excessive NMDA excitation,

glutamate release excitation, we think it damages the brain, the nerves. And so, even though you go, wait a minute, this is something that's calming, it's gonna make me think better. Yeah, because you can overdo it. And so the SIMax and Selang, the theory goes helps you, you know, stay more calm and better focused. So they call it a newtropic, but a lot of people use it as what we call an angstiolidic, something that reduces anxiety.

There's also several lice in zebra lice in that has been shown to, and by the way, most of the studies have been done out of Russia. Not that that matters, but you know, you got to find translations, right? But several ice and has also been shown to help with Alzheimer's. The mechanisms with Cilank and Cimax are different. With Cibral Ice and you're actually opening up the theories that is opening up the blood vessels and helping get more flow to the brain

and places where it needs it. Interesting. So what's the process of somebody wants to work with you guys and work with peptides and some of these other compounds? They still do full blood panel. You still go over what your goals are and then let's try these and let's monitor

you. What does that look like that process? Well, it depends upon the peptide we're talking about. Like I mentioned earlier, if someone is my age and they say, hey, I want to do something to increase my growth hormone, fortunately, we have a product in the market. Now, we just have an uncle blot that went off to China long story behind that after Dr. Mouraiz spent at least 38 years of his life developing it, but Grail has developed Galeri, which can detect 50 different cancers. So we might say for GHs to create a hog, not at your age, but certainly again at my age

where there's more likely to be cancer present. Let's test you first, just to be on the safe side. And yeah, anything we're doing is we're doing right. I have been accused of over testing many a time. I've heard from patients about phobotomists going, oh, you went to him, sit down, we might have to do this in two sessions because they're drawn so much blood. But why not? If nothing else, you're getting a baseline.

And it won't mean a treat medicine like an engineer would, but more dealing with manipulating all those things, it just makes it, I think, a good idea to have that information and the interest of being prudent also to have that information before we go further and know what we're jiggering. If nothing else to know whether it's working for you, for example, you know, somebody who wants to improve their fertility with ACG, well, let's find out where we're starting first. I mean, just to give you a simple example, you know, somebody who wants to improve their fertility with ACG, well, let's find out where we're starting first. I mean, just to give you a simple example, go get a steaming analysis, where are you, then we'll put you on the treatment and then see where

you end up. Yeah, this is why we work with you guys, because I wouldn't recommend a refer anybody to do any exogenous hormones or work with peptides unless they're working with someone who has a lot of integrity and who's gonna watch all these things because they are efficacious. You're not just taking vitamin C, you know, you're taking something that really affects hormones and chemicals in the body and without that without really measuring the baseline and then monitoring I mean you could you know, who knows it could, the person could have great results or not so good results, but we don't know unless we test. Well, we, and why guess when you can test and just to add to that too, I mean, and not to counter what you said at all, not really at all, but it's funny you say that because,

you know, we treat vitamin C like it's innocuous, it's not. Sure. If you give somebody with a history of kidney stones, vitamin C, for example, without giving them some concurrent, like in an acid, in acid deal, cysteine, they're going to have a problem. So, you know, where we draw the line is to what's supposed to be followed with a doctor and not as arguable again as a registered libertarian. Hey, teach his own, but as a doctor, I would encourage you to encompass all that. And we do in our practice because there is synergy there

with all these things. Vitamin C is an important part, you know? And again, not to counter what you said, it's just, I understand your point, but I got to throw in there that all these things make a difference so that if we can get our arms around as much of it as possible, we have more that we can jigger.

Yeah. Well, part of our motivation or the main part of the motivation even have this episode is we've been extremely transparent with our audience since the beginning of the show. And one of the things we all agreed on too is that we're always going to promote to our base like the big rocks, you know, the sleep, the eating correctly, exercise, building muscle, all that stuff, come search. But then yet here we are behind the scenes using peptides with you. And I think we all felt like I think it's only fair

to be authentic with our audience because we've been that way since day one to share with them that we're actually doing some of this stuff and experimenting with it and have somebody like you come on who can speak to them on who and why and why you should or shouldn't do certain things because we've been experimenting with that.

So that was a lot of why we wanted to do this because I don't think it's right for us to be utilizing some of these things and then acting like we don't. No, no, we've always been open, but back to your vitamin, we said about vitamin C, you know what's funny? When people ask us what vitamins this should take, we always tell them get tested and see what your deficiency, deficient in and then supplement with that rather than throwing everything about the kitchen sink.

Well, if you read the label of every supplement, you'd be taking everything under the sun. And I used the example with B12 that I wear out and pardon me if I'm repeating myself, but you know, people, including my wife, my wife, when she was running tracks, she would go to the, especially if they went out drinking the night before, they go to the trainer and get a B12 shot. And some people, as you know, would swear by B12 and some people not.

If you've got plenty of B12, a B12 shot's not gonna do anything for you. If you're short in it, yeah, you're gonna feel it. One thing I can tell you, everybody, and remember I was a CPA before I was a doctor, so I'm presumably honest and conservative, everybody I meet needs more of the B vitamins, okay?

And D3, 300 years ago, life expectancy was what? 30, 35, okay, and you're herding sheep, no stress. They call them stress vitamins, by the way, the B vitamins. Nowadays you wake up with stress. You have to population sleeps with stress. And so you need these B vitamins, and even more to my point, what happens when you take B vitamins?

You pee yellow green, right? The riboflavin passin' through you, which just goes to show you, it doesn't stick to you very well. You need to take it more frequently, and just a quicker reminder for the nerds out there to convert food into usable energy, the crep cycle, right? They call this citric acid cycle now. You need magnesium, zinc, Coenzyme Q10, manganese, and all the B vitamins.

So sometimes people will feel better just by adding that to the regimen. It's not innocuous, man. Do you guys work with vitamins as well, right? So, yeah. So, I mean, this is like full stop. You guys are looking at everything and you can work with nutrients.

You can work with peptides, you can work with hormones, really optimizing someone's quality of life. And there's some things you can work with nutrients, you can work with peptides, you can work with hormones, really optimizing someone's quality of life. And there's some things you can test for. Like you can get vitamin D, unfortunately, you can only test the roadway. You can't test, you know, you can't count how many people live in the house. You just have to gauge it based upon how many people

are driving it out, serum levels in other words. Vitamin B diddo for a lot of them. Not even worth testing because nobody gets enough, as I said, but magnesium we can test by testing the red blood cells. And then from there, you do it based upon what I learned from you. What do you do for livenry? You construction, or you an accountant behind a desk. Are you feeling a certain way?

Are you after a certain goal? And then we can jigger things appropriately. I argue to some degree, everyone could take beta-aligning, they'd be better for it. You ever heard of beta-aligning? Oh, yeah, of course. It should be banned by, you know, water should ban it. It's definitely an unfair advantage,

and yet I don't think people take advantage of it. But whether you're trying to use as an organic aid, you know, to enhance your performance, or you're just using as an anti-aging tool because the converse telekarnetine, it's kind of a no brainer. So some of those, you can go, I call them the Chinese medicine

has an idea of supreme herbs and supplements, things that you could take no matter what, like ginseng maybe. And then you have the ones where you go, we gotta fix this. So like you're prone to infections. We're gonna up your vitamin C and glutathione precursor

of the NAC, and we can hit bugs that way. You mentioned B12, and you just reminded me of a question that I had. In fact, a friend was asking me, why take B12 injections and not just take the over the counter B12 pills? Penache of it. Really, there is no reason. Some people like the fact that they're, well, well for one you can do a thousand mics of Vitamin B12 once a week and by the next time you know in a week hence when it's time to give yourself another one You'll be above normal guaranteed never seen it others or so, you know It's just I guess and for some people is convenient You know, there'll be periods while I'll be like I'm done being a pin cushion Yeah, and I'm taking all my stuff orally and then there'll be stuff where I'm done swallowing the stuff

I've worn out my GI and I'll go back to whatever I can pin You know, but the same thing pretty much. Yeah, well There's a conversion it roughly a tenfold conversion where like if I'm injecting 500 milligrams of ill-carnateen. Yeah, that's about five grams orally got it Yeah, and also I would imagine people with gut issues probably have worsening, you know, have worse absorption rates with some of these things. I've worked with clients where supplementing with B12, it just, God, they'd have to take so much.

They went to the injections and it worked really well. And that's because they had a lot of gut issues, gut inflammation. So it made a big difference. We go back to the individuality of it all. Yes, that's why you really should. And I'm not trying to pump up my profession or my job at all, but whether it's your job looking over what I would call the basics that you mentioned, the rocks.

You call it. I mean, this is not trying to blow sunshine your way either. But I mean, people overlook that and all the fight and supplements in the world, and hormones is not gonna overcome. You're not exercising properly, you're not resting properly and you're not eating properly. Those are the rocks. These are the additional things

or the things that leverage that that we're talking about here. And I'm glad you said that because that's again, that's been our message since day one. That's even why we were really hesitant to even talk about peptides. We're like, we don't wanna promote this to our audience. It's like, this is the answer to help you do this or help you do that when you're not doing

the sleep, the exercise, the diet. So I'm glad you said that because that's a lot of like, but then at the same time, here we are using these things. So I felt like we should share that with our audience. But again, sticking with, take care of the big rocks first. And then these are other levers that we can pull in. But there was an article published that Dr. Todd sent me, right? Recently, where I hit some famous bodybuilders and I'm not up. I'm not hip to the latest and greatest guys

out there. But saying, Hey, no, here's what I'm doing. So that doesn't occur so that the, you know, the younger, more naive of the population out there is in thinking something unrealistic. I mean, really guys, I hate to sound like some of the Jamie D. Curtis, who I love, by the way, but she's a big proponent of, hey, here's what I look at without makeup, but we need more of that, because I think people are going too far with some of these things,

too far, maybe it's not the right word, but their expectations are off because they don't understand that, yeah, I mean, this person's using this and that and, you know, or this person works for a living, you know, and, or this person doesn't work for a living, I should say, and spends his whole time in the gym, yeah, well then you're gonna have an extra edge, right? Yeah, I think, you know, if you do the main things, then you can augment and leverage. I love that word leverage with modern technology, science, and really improve the overall quality,

especially when we talk about hormones, if you're deficient, that's totally different. It's like being deficient and nutrient, supplementing with that nutrient makes is a life changer. I tested very low with testosterone. For me, getting replacement was, I mean, it was a game changer for me. If my testosterone levels were fine,

then it would have been necessary. But it made a huge difference. So especially in that case, this can definitely be the answer if you're deficient. But yeah, you got to do all those other things first, so I'm really glad you said that. And, of course, after all, you are a fitness guy at heart, so I'm one of the things we love about you. Thanks for coming on the show.

No, my pleasure. That's a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. Good to always, my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle

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