Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1919: When Consuming MORE Sugar Might Be Beneficial, What to Do When Fat Loss Stalls, the Truth About TRT for Men in Their 20s & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: October 8, 2022

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Studies have shown that eating more protein tends to help people be more satisfied. But, does this mean eating a low-protein diet leads to overeating? (2:32) The day Sal has been waiting for his whole life. (9:08) The importance of being involved in the little stuff with your kids. (12:18) The ultimate dog watcher's dream! (23:35) The next evolution of the TV. (28:50) Are you watching Dahmer on Netflix? (31:58) Democratized media vs old media. (42:02) Environmentally conscious? Why you should switch over to Public Goods. (50:43) Felix Gray is quietly making moves. (54:37) #ListenerLive question #1 - What would be the best way to work out and diet after being in a heavy cut, and then switching to a bulk? (1:04:39) #ListenerLive question #2 - How long does it take to build muscle growth in your traps? (1:22:58) #ListenerLive question #3 - What’s the best way to slowly get off TRT once my levels get back to normal? (1:36:59) #ListenerLive question #4 - Is it possible to reduce muscle mass for some upcoming marathons I have scheduled but maintain my strength? (1:50:18) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Public Goods for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Receive $15 off your first Public Goods order with NO MINIMUM purchase** Visit Felix Gray for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! October Promotion: MAPS Symmetry or MAPS Strong HALF OFF! **Promo code OCTOBER50 at checkout** Effect of dietary protein content on weight gain, energy expenditure, and body composition during overeating: a randomized controlled trial Creating Humble Leadership & Relationships That Last with Adam Schafer – The Path with Mike Salemi Find Pet Sitters & House Sits Worldwide | TrustedHousesitters.com Watch DAHMER | Netflix Official Site All-In Podcast E98: Big tech starts making cuts, Fed incompetency, global debt, Russia/Ukraine & more Visit NED for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Mind Pump #1830: Five Steps To Determine Your Ideal Caloric Intake MAPS Fitness Performance Visit Joovv for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! MP Hormones Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum MAPS Fitness Anabolic Mind Pump #367: Zach Bitter- Ketogenic 100 Mile Record Holder Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mike Salemi (@mike.salemi) Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere) Instagram Vicki Reynolds (@vicki__reynolds) Instagram Chamath Palihapitiya (@chamath) Twitter Zach Bitter (@zachbitter) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. What's up everybody? You just found the number one fitness health entertainment podcast in the world. You guessed it, this is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live caller's questions, but this was after a 60 minute introductory conversation. We talked about fitness, our lives, current events, the studies and much more.

By the way, you could check the show notes if you want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one, we could talk to you live and help you out. Email live at mindpumpmedia.com. Just email you then, your question. If we like it, you'll be on the show with us and we'll be able to coach you with fitness and health. By the way, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is public goods. This is a company that provides household products, delivers them to your door,

but it's very environmentally conscious, and they don't include any harsh chemicals or hormone disrupting chemicals in their products. It's a great company, you save a lot of money, and you do good stuff for the environment. So win, win, win, all the way around. Go check this company out. Go to public goods.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code Mind Pumpet, check out, and get $15 off your purchase.

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so that's October 5-0, no space for that discount. All right, here comes the show. All right, look, studies have shown that eating more protein tends to help people be more satisfied. But does this mean eating a low protein diet leads to overeating? A new study suggests, yes, that's the case. In other words, if you don't eat a high protein diet leads to overeating. A new study suggests, yes, that's the case. In other words, if you don't eat a high protein diet, you are far more likely to overeat.

That seems a bit obvious. It seems obvious, but you know, you know, what there's always three macros. I know. You get rid of the most satiating one. Yes, however, your options are slim. What I like about this and what I like about scientific studies is that they'll take something that seems obvious and then they'll test it just to make sure because sometimes you get results that aren't what you would expect, right? There could be another variable or something else that's going on. Bum bum bum bum. I know.

Water is wet. Yes, I know. But they did a study, they did another study, and it was pretty well made. And it in fact does show what we would think would be the result, which is if you eat a low calorie diet, you're just more likely to overeat. So in other words, if weight loss is your goal or trying to avoid being overweight,

and we've said this a million times, you want to eat a high protein diet. Low protein just makes this over. Now, there's a lot of theories as to why this may be the case. And it's probably, this is the leading theory, which I tend to agree with. There's no way of knowing for sure, but I think because of the way we evolved,

that our appetites were regulated by foods that tend to have more or less nutrients. And the most nutrient dense foods on Earth, the most nutrient dense whole foods I should say on Earth, are meat. Like if you ate a bunch of meat, the odds are you got all of the essential nutrients, proteins fats, both essential,

plus micronutrients and vitamins and minerals. And so I think when your body, with this, we evolved to where our bodies sense all this protein, and then our appetite gets tamped down because our bodies like, okay, we don't need to spend so much energy seeking food at the moment because you probably got everything you need versus, I'm eating a bunch of berries that I found that are growing wild or maybe some roots

that I found that are wild, and because my body didn't sense the protein, it also knows, well, those foods have some valuable stuff in them, but they're probably not getting our essentials. So let's keep the appetite high so that the person is driven to search for more food. I think there's some behavioral aspects to it too. So we recently talked about how,

we'll just go on a diet where I'm just gonna focus on getting protein. That's my rule right now. Let's just make sure I hit my protein thing. One of the things that I notice when I do that, if I tell myself that there's no restrictions, like I can't not have something that I want, the only rule is I have to make sure I get protein first.

It limits my options a lot of times. So in other words, like, let's say it's, you know, middle of the afternoon, I already had's say it's, you know, um, middle of the afternoon, I already had lunch. It's going to be probably two or three more hours till I get to a dinner and I'm starting to get hungry. I'm driving from point A to point B. It's like, if I, if I make that rule myself that I have to get protein first, it's not as simple as just like pulling into a gas station and grabbing a bag of chips or nuts or something. So I feel like there's a behavioral aspect of that when you're targeting protein because it's

harder to find like protein-rich meals in comparison to carbs or saturated fat, I find that that also plays into a role of helping you stay within your calorie. Do you think it has a little bit of that? I do. I think that's part of it, but in the study, they're not accounting for that. Yeah, they're not working with people who are making this rule, what they're finding is just people who eat more protein

tend to not overeat and people eat less protein tend to overeat, right? And they control for lots of different factors. You could have someone who eats less protein but also has maybe eating disorder, so just eats low, any way, low calories, and all that stuff, but they're controlling for all this stuff. And so the first thing that you said about,

like I gotta hit my protein targets, if you do that, and if you give yourself no limitations, like you're like, okay, you know, I can't, if I want ice cream, like, so if I want ice cream, I'll eat it, but I know I supposed to get 30 grams of protein. First, with this meal. So let me, my 30 grams of protein first, then I'll eat my ice cream.

You're probably gonna eat less ice cream or not eat the ice cream at all. It just leads to, you know, behaviors that lead to less chances for obesity and poor health. I don't even think it's, oh, sorry, Josh. Oh yeah, did the study like account for it being animal sources, the protein versus, plants, or was it just like any protein general?

Any protein in general, however, plant proteins are harder to come by as high protein foods as a percentage of total calories. Yeah, a lot of volume, yeah. Yeah, so like, you know, what's a good high protein? Did you see that viral tweet that someone did about broccoli comparing broccoli protein with? Yeah, like you get a simile all that.

Well, not even that, you know, he pounds a broccoli, you go and say, it's the whole protein. That's the part that annoys the shit, I mean, because people would be like, well, you know, legumes are high in protein. Yeah, for a plant food, but to get 30 grams of protein, like you'd have to have a ton of beans, and that would come with a lot of other stuff, right?

You're 30 grams of animal protein, and especially if you get a lean source, and it's like a small piece of chicken breast or something like that. And if you wanna make it fatty, you can, but that's the point, the point is, if you're seeking high-protein plant foods, it's going to come along with a lot of stuff and a lot of volume and a lot of

that stuff. We're with animal sources, it's relatively easy, it's dense is what it is. It's very, very dense. And then that digestibility, like eat a 200, eat 200 grams, so I'm 200 pounds, right? So if I aim for 200 grams of protein from plant sources, I don't use protein powders, because you can't get plant-based protein powders, which makes it a lot easier, but let's say I don't. I'm like, I wanna eat 200 grams of plant protein. Oh my God, you know which volume

and all the fiber and other compounds in the vegetables that are gonna make me just blow, and it's gonna be just a challenge. Two hundred grams of animal proteins hard to get let alone plant protein. So that's really about it, but I mean, if you could do it, I guess you can, and I'm sure some people do better that way,

but again, this is another study that shows that there's a strong connection between low protein and high and overeating, which supports what we already know, which is protein is satiating. It just makes you not want to eat more. How's your morning go today? You seem extra chipper today, bro. You were all kind of like a grinning and just in a good mood. I was like, what's going on? You know, we can't live for what. No, you know what happened today. What? It's the day I've been waiting for my whole marriage.

Oh, wow, it was that good of a day. I, so good. I felt I could see the globe, really. That mean, yeah. I could see it. Oh, it was so great. Or a bad joke. I hope it was the word she used today. I'm just, look, I'm speaking for, I think I'm speaking for a lot of husbands here.

So I got a text this morning and Jessica's like, where's my hooded sweater and where's the baby's hoodie? And she said that and I was just like, oh, finally. I'm like, you can't find something. No, I said, I put them in the closet where they belong. And she said, finally you did the right thing. She's like, oh my God. And I'm like, boom, you know, big letters.

And I said, I'm gonna save this, because I'm gonna bring this. I put something away, we're a blog, if you could have liked it. Because it's always the other way. I or any of that, right? Dude, she's like looking to all the places. Yes.

Except for where it belongs. Exactly. Because it's usually the other way around. I'm always trying to find something. She's like, well, it's where it belongs. It's in the way. Oh yeah, that's right. So it finally happened.

Oh yeah. Document that. Was she good sport about it? Oh no, I wasn't. I mean, she thought it was hilarious. She screen shot at it and she sent it to her family and all that stuff. No, yesterday, it was, not yesterday, Saturday, she went to my cousin's wedding shower.

So I got one of my cousins getting married, wonderful family, very good people. And she's like, you know, it's two hours away. So she's like, do you mind if I don't take the baby? I mean, she's already, she's pregnant. I'm like, of course, I'm like, leave the baby with me. I'll hang out with the kids. And you know, she's like, do you mind if I don't take the baby? I mean, she's already she's pregnant. Of course, I'm like, leave the baby with me. I'll hang out with the kids. And you know, she's like, are you sure? Well, I'm like, yeah, I'm totally fine. I'm capable. Don't worry about it. Whatever. So she left and I had a great time with the kids

and we use no electronics all day. And you know, like I made sure to clean the house and put things away because I really wanted her to come back to feel like not stressed. Because I could tell she was worried that either A, she was going to come home and find a disaster. Or she was going to come home and be like, oh, so you guys just watched movies all day. That's nice. You know what I mean? That's all I'm not going to do all that stuff. But it's pretty funny. It's funny, it's you because I sent a text to I'm going a group thread with like a bunch of cousins and friends, and we're all dads, and I'm like, man, you know, doing like that day-to-day mundane stuff with my kids, like, I wish I knew this

as when I was a younger down, my older kids. That's how you really build a relationship with your kids. You know, you think it's all like tedious crap, but by the end of the day, my younger, you know, my baby, he's almost two, he was just so close to me. He's hugging me and I could tell I feel more kind of, why? Because I fed him, I changed his diapers, I gave him a bath,

I was hung out with him all day. And then of course I send that to my buddies and one of them gets all insecure about it. Well, I do a lot of stuff. Oh my God, bro. Relax. I'm not pointing out the other one. It's all the you. It was my own conclusion that I thought Relax. I'm not pointing out that I wasn't solving you.

It was my own conclusion that I thought about. I'm not pointing out that you don't do shit at home, okay? You had to be careful when you say stuff like that because people get offended. You know, did you, which, did you guys both do your interviews with Selemi yet or just, you know, having it? So did you guys get into father talk?

That was like really cool. We did, we did. We had a great conversation around that. And that was like one of his You know his fears because ever a lot of his buddies have told him that he's about to become a dad Yeah, yeah, right? He's about to become a dad and that you know Oh, you know, I hear that you go through this phases where he'll be super connected to you and he won't be and I said Max is gonna is over three years old now and we've never gone through a phase of him not being absolutely connected to me. And I said, what I attribute that to, it could be wrong, there's a problem

sure there's an exception to the rule, some dad that did all the same stuff as I did and he maybe went through that process. But for me, when I look at me and my two other best friends at the same time we all went through this, I was just involved in all the little stuff. Yeah.

You know, the things that you just don't really think about that I think a lot of the way, that's a testament to you because you were an older dad just involved in all the little stuff. Yeah. You know, the things that you just don't really think about that I think a lot of. By the way, that's a testament to you because you were an older dad because I feel like you figure that out when you're older. When you're younger, you're just like, oh, I gotta work, make money.

Well, I knew, I mean, that's why I wanted to wait till I got older was for that exact, was because, That's not saying, it's because of the warmth. Yeah, because I think, where I'm at in my life today, where I would compare like if you brought up 25, like not only where I'm at in my life today, where I would compare, like, if you brought up 25, like, not only was I way more selfish at 25 years old, but I was also very much so busy trying to figure out my path.

Yeah. And much of my time would be dedicated towards that, and I would have probably leaned, and I already do lean heavily on Katrina. She does do the bulk of the work, but I'm very much so involved in everything. I mean, and I make sure that she does too. Like she's really great about,

you know, if it's been a few nights where maybe I haven't put him down or maybe I worked late, and so I got last time with him, she'll make sure to like, hey, you wanna do Max tonight, you do the bath? Oh yeah, absolutely, I'll do that because I missed a day or whatever I got home late.

So, and I just really think that being involved in those things of the putting down, the diaper changing, the feedings, the more that is a dad you're involved in, I think the more attached that he or she will be to you, and at least that's my experience. Bro, you know that lesson I learned the hard way with my older kids. It's when I got divorced,

I all of a sudden was now mom and dad, right? So it was so stressful. It was like a year period where I was so overwhelmed. So now I gotta do school lunches. I gotta meet with the teachers at a kid's you ready in the morning, get your breakfast, make sure your clothes are clean, they could do all the stuff.

And I didn't do any of that before. And I was so overwhelmed. And then put it on Jessica because it's Jessica and I were first getting together. And I'm like, I'm not about to like, oh hey, welcome, you know. You're all the stuff now. Take care of my kids.

Yeah, so, I mean, she did help, but I really took it on, right? And I was so overwhelmed, so stressed out. And then the craziest thing happened. Like, I started to know my kids, but I didn't know that I didn't know them before. You know what I mean? All of a sudden, I'm like, I'm talking them,

I'm like, I know them, I'm building relationships, and it was a paradigm shift. The paradigm of a sudden, I'm like, I'm talking to them, I'm like, I know them. I'm building a relationship. And it was a paradigm shift. The paradigm shift was before, I'm like, oh, this is all just a bunch of hard work. Now I realize, no, this is a blessing and opportunities. It's not the like, oh, we go on vacation and I play with you sometimes. It's the day-to-day stuff that we call bullshit. That's how you develop a relationship with your kids. Yeah, I'm always reminded about that. And I've been going through that a bit because I,

you know, some of my efforts have been sort of split in terms of balance of like putting that into the football team and then coming home and then hanging out with them and being involved in their gymnastics and, you know, trying to keep tabs and updates of what's going on in their lives. And so I've, you know so I've definitely tried to limit my time. So I do like two, maybe three times a week now where I go to practice. I don't go the full week because I'm like, I need to go to their practices

and be involved in their stuff. And I start bringing them more to the games and so they're hanging out with me up in the box and we're like, it's been a great transition for me to bring in like, especially Ethan and stuff because he's at that age where he's're like, you know, it's been a great transition for me to bring in, like, especially Ethan and stuff because he's at that age where he's just like, I wanna be with dad, I don't wanna hang out. But with Everett, it's funny

because at night is when he wants to just be chatty and he just like tells me everything, like before bed and he was just getting into like, who he has like crushes on and stuff so I'm figuring out like who out who, what his taste is? It's interesting to see what girls he's kind of into and whatnot. He showed me a picture of one and stuff.

Does he have tastes like you? Do you see? Yeah, he's very much into bonds. I'm like, it's my boy. I can taste my own. My oldest, you know, God, he's gonna listen. I think. I think I can taste my- Dude, my oldest, you know, God, he's gonna listen to this and get annoyed. I'm not gonna go too far.

He has a girlfriend right now, doesn't he? No, no, no, he doesn't have a girlfriend. No, okay. So I'm not gonna get too much in it, because you'll get mad, but we're talking around this topic or whatever. And I'm noticing he likes like kind of the stuff I like. Like he's into like kind of smartish,

maybe a little weird, you know, kind of girls or whatever. Yeah. And so Jessica's like, oh. Like he's into like kind of smartish, maybe a little weird, you know, kind of girls or whatever. And so Jessica's like, oh god, he's so, he's so, I'm like, I know to. It's just so funny. This is like a type, huh? Yeah, just so, I know Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, huh? But he's, you know, he's, he's gonna be, he's gonna be 18 next year, dude. He's gonna be a man, I guess, you know? I guess it's wild for me to watch, because we've now been, you know, all the other for eight years almost, right? If you especially if you count the time leading up

to before the podcast started, right? Because podcasts have been rolling seven, coming up on seven years right now, right? Doug, no, going on eight. Oh, we're going on eight. So it's been like eight, nine years since we all really connected. And, you know, seeing Doug's daughter too,

like how much she's grown, like everybody, they were, I remember babies. Yeah, they were all so little. Dom was little, it's like another all, like high school getting ready to graduate, high school, like that's just crazy to think that, you know. Yeah, no, I'm having a lot of conversations with my oldest about sex and drugs,

because he's gonna go off to college. Now, are you prompting that conversation or is he bringing it up a lot? You know, either. So it could be either or, right? So we'll have, and Jessica's really good about this. I still get weird about certain conversations when they talk about sex or,

especially when they ask her questions because Jessica's brutally honest. And I'm always like, oh, fuck, did he just ask? Like have you ever dropped acid? You know, or whatever? Like I'm like, no, don't act. Just don't, you don't need to know. Anyway, but it was, there was conversations

and we're having these conversations. And what I'm telling my son is, I'm like, look, here's a deal. I said, you're gonna be exposed to alcohol for sure. Definitely marijuana, maybe other substances too. I said, you know, you're going to drink and you're going to smoke cannabis first with me. If that's what you're interested in, because I want you to know what the limits are, because I'm not afraid of him having

the occasional drink or, you know, whatever, what I'm afraid of is him going too far. Like, I had all of us had experiences of that, because you test the limits when you're a kid and you go too far and that can be freaking good. Sure you guys are you still on the same pages we were last time when we kind of had that little discussion about our kids if I had to choose either or they got into drinking or into smoking which would I would prefer and I think everybody thought I would lean towards the smoking and I was like no I'd rather if my kids are going to do something like that earlier than I like right. This is assuming that they, boy, it's so hard, right?

It's hard to tough one. It is a hard one, but if I, if I had to, Now, what are the parameters that they, that they use it too much, or that they just occasionally? No, no, that's, no, you see, that's just it.

You gotta roll the dice with the chances of that, right? It's just like, if I, if they got introduced to one or the other, and I had a, I had a choice of which one, I would just, I would prefer alcohol, and most people thought well That's crazy. I'm with you on that most people didn't think that for me

But and and actually part of the reason why is because of how I feel like How how much we've normalized cannabis and that it's we the lot of the stuff that you see is is pro right all the health Benefits of it and it's not as bad bad. And even though you're smoking it, it can even cancel out the cancers, like a net zero. And so there's a lot of developmental mind. Right. But there's a lot of push though in that direction of life. There's not as many social barriers, I guess you do.

Right. And so then I think, and I kind of watched this happen with my little brother because I shared this before, I don't know if I shared it on there, but with you guys I know I have about, I was right in the thick of the cannabis space, right? And owning the clubs and being involved in that when my brother was your son's age.

And I remember having this site conversation. And it was a weird conversation because I knew that I needed to tell him, be careful. But here I am in the middle of's, I can't be like, say no to drugs, I can't be like that. He's gonna be like, come on, I'm not gonna listen to you. Right, of course. So the thing that I just kept trying to explain to him

was just be careful because I know how much it tamps down your anxiety and I know how much it makes you feel good and relaxed. I know the positive things, I enjoy it too, right? I'm not denying any of that. But it also can creep into your life so easily that you go from using it every once well for anxiety to all of a sudden, I'm doing it every day

to then I have to be high all day long. I see what you're saying. And because you can function and do things at the same time, now you become this super stoner and you don't even realize how unproductive you are. In fact, I have many friends that think they're more productive on cannabis than they think they are off of it. And that's just because they don't know. That's a lie.

Right, it is a lie. And it's in, and of course, there's someone listening right now who's probably in their head trying to defend themselves right now saying like, Oh, I am. No, no, no, no. You should see what you look like. Hellosober, okay, that would be my challenge, right? So, you know, for that reason, I would be more concerned about it.

Where alcohol like, it's very obvious when you get drunk, you know, the likelihood that you're... Yeah, you're not gonna show up to work, Trump. Yeah, you're gonna show up to work after having an edible. That's right, that's right. You know what I'm saying? And get away with it a lot easier.

To the way that I always think of it, is which one am I more afraid of? Game juice. Like if being alcoholic or a stoner, obviously alcoholic is worse. But I hear exactly what you're saying. What you're saying is with cannabis, the odds that someone's gonna use it regularly

are higher probably because there's not as many social preferences. Yeah, I think the consequences are more obvious with alcohol, right? Like it totally. It's just like very obvious if I drank too much, this happens as a result. It's like you can kind of blend that line a little bit

with marijuana where it's like, I don't think I'm abusing it, you know, like, and you can just totally cross. I had, I so, I was talking to him, and I've talked to him about this before, I said, you know, if you drink too much alcohol, it sucks and it could kill you and you get sick and all that stuff.

I said, and I know they say that marijuana's, you can't overdose. I said, that's true. That doesn't mean you won't have a traumatic event or feel like you're going to die. I tried to explain to him, I said, overdosing on cannabis is one of the worst feelings you could ever experience.

You have some come to Jesus moments. Yeah, so it's like, yeah, you didn't die, but it don't mean you left like, I'm scared. You're gonna die. Oh, I'm scared. Oh, everything else. You could get PTSD from two, I know.

I know you can. You should, you should, you should. You should keep that clip, right? Of the cop that calls and calls. I would totally use that clip. Like, this is real, so I'm gonna copy through himself and I'm gonna call him. Imagine how scared he has to be in order for him

to call the cop, right? Call 911. Yeah, I'm a cop. So I have a pretty funny story. So if you guys ever got, well, okay, so whenever you find something really good, like, say it's like a dog sitter, say it's like, you know, a babysitter,

or whatever, like a handyman or something, right? And like, you're your family, or your friends kind of find out about it, and you're like, wait a minute. And then you share it. Yeah, because then they take him, and then it's like, he's booked up, and it's like, you just introduced them.

So anyway, so Courtney and I are kind of talking about this because we have like a really good system now. Like, we got somebody that can watch our house and our dogs, if like, we have to our kind of talking about this because we have like a really good system now, like we got somebody that can watch our house and our dogs if we have to leave on a trip or something. And like my parents found out about this and like they just like had a bad experience with one and there's like, oh, can you send over, you know, her contact to us and all this

and we're just like, dude, how do we like shuffle this? Like because like I know for sure, they're gonna wanna take, cause they take a lot of random trips and we don't know, and they plant things way out ahead of time, and then we're just like, dude, no, I don't wanna give them keys to this car. You know, like this is our person, you know?

And so we're like kinda going through options and all this and we're like, what would kinda deter them a little? Cause we are, I mean, the date that he got, like it's, they're cool, but they're Satanist. Yeah, that's basically like, we're starting texting. I'm like, yeah, you know, it may not be a good fit. Like she smokes weed and like, throw it in the middle of the boyfriend comes over.

Like most times we are okay with it, you know, but you might not be okay with it, you know, like trying to create all these scenarios where it's like does it look like appealing and whatnot and so we're just like We're just yeah like Satan is like we're trying to come up with scenarios that will like scare them and deter them away But I mean finally we were just kind of honest with it. We're like oh, I think you know like we tried that same weekend But she's not a very how many I wonder if our clients ever did that when we were trained, when we trained people. I guarantee it. Sure, I guarantee it.

Sure, I promise you when you got real busy. Did I tell you about, or did Cassie share with the app that she uses? So there's a new app, it's really, actually, she's done it now two or three times, and she's been an incredible experience every time she's done it. And you have a perfect area because you live

in the Santa Cruz area, which is a popular travel place to go to the beach and so on. Yeah. And you guys have a beautiful house. So these people, they come watch your house and dog for free. It's basically in trade for being on the state, your location. No way. Yes.

And their dog lovers. So it's a perfect. So that makes perfect sense. It's an app that is collected, made people that love animals that are dog lovers. Would have just swept into all of it. who also want to travel and go places. And then they look up and go like, oh my God Santa Cruz. And then and there's like reviews on like verify. There's just like review.

There's reviews on their four star, five star people leave comments. Oh my God, they were amazing. They cleaned my house and they my dog. They sent me updates of my dog playing with them every hour. Like well, for them, it's free. Of course. I'm actually into state Justin's beautiful house for free, and you want to go to Santa Cruz for vacation.

And all I gotta do is feed your dog, walk your dog, and play with them a bit. That's a disrupting technology. You know what that, okay. I'm gonna have to leave. So I'm gonna give away a business idea, because my son came up with this idea, and it's along those lines.

Okay, so he says, he says to me, the adieu exists already. Well, I don't know if it does. I wanna hear what you guys think. It's kind of funny. So we're sitting there washing dishes and he goes, hey, he goes, have you heard of Smash rooms? I'm like, what's the Smash room?

He goes, you pay money and you go in these rooms and you put on safety goggles and then he, you just break shit. Yeah, those are different kinds of things. And he goes, what if? No, not like Jersey or the rest of it. Those are real things. Yeah, so keep going.

Yeah, you go and you get sledge hammers and you break shit. And it's like cathartic and you love it. Yeah, he goes, what if you connect those people with like construction demo jobs? So they show up to shit to places, just to like to demo your kitchen. Right. But instead of paying them, you let them do it for free.

They don't want to smash it. You get your shit smashed. I'm like, I wonder. You know, it's not about ideas. I, you know, if there's a business there would be on the average job, how long is the demo process for most like jobs? And I would actually fund.

That is a fun spot. Well, I'm sure most companies are like, yes, but you gotta pay them still. Right, you do. You gotta still pay them to demo show. I mean, usually owners like that, that would be the only time they would actually do any of the work is like the demo part.

Yeah, they have it on these like do it yourself like home shows or like, you know, put gloves on. They're like, oh, yeah. Yeah, and it's like they don't know anything else other than. Yeah, but you know what,, it was funny about that. So obviously my dad worked and he did stonework, right? So we would go in all the time and demo bathrooms

and kitchens or whatever. And at first it's fun. Okay, but that doesn't, it's real quick. You're just exhausted. You're breaking like old cement and tile or stonework. Yeah. And it's like, as a kid, you think, oh, I'm gonna slam the sledgehammer,

and it's gonna break the whole floor. No, you slam the sledgehammer, and then you break up a couple pieces. And you're like, oh, shit, I'm gonna be here for hours. Well, there's a difference between getting this old beat of car and saying, go ahead, have at it, destroy it, versus someone saying, hey, I need you to beat this door

until all the paint is off right now. Of course. And so then you have to like, after a while, you're like, okay, I'm over this one thing right so yeah interesting Dude I had a buddy my dad used to obviously bring me to work and then he brought one of my cousins ones And we were demoing this this room and we had to break a wall Mm-hmm and you know the wall you know obviously here in Italy walls are all concrete But here obviously they're like sheet rock. And so my buddy's like, oh, watch this.

He's like, I'm gonna run through the wall. Well, he hit a stud. He hit a stud, bro. Yeah. He ran through. Oh, bro, there is all the floor. No, it's the sound of breaking glass. And I've guaranteed because all those like,

break rooms, smash rooms, whatever. Like that's, that's what everybody gets excited about. I was at a job where it was like, I worked at a all those like break rooms, smash rooms, whatever. Like that's what everybody gets excited about. I was at a job where it was like, I worked at a warehouse and like you'd have, every now and then you'd have defective windows. And so we would have to throw them in these like huge dumpsters. And so we made like a sport of it.

And so you'd like take it and you'd like throw it and just put, gggg, make the best sound ever, dude. That's so great. Break it with rocks. Yeah. I went with my friend. So he lived, he's got a huge property. And so basically he could shoot his own guns on his property.

So he would go out and you'd get like old, whatever, old computers, what else would be fun. So we'd sit back and we'd shoot it with different firearms to see how far the bullet would penetrate and whatever. Have you ever tried to demo or whatever break in old TV? Oh, like the old two ones? Like the ones that weighed 5,000 pounds and what do they make those things out of? Like bulletproof everything?

Yeah, yeah. Bro, it was, you know what, went through? It's like the shape of the glass, right? It's like this. It's just like spiders out, doesn't even. Dude, like nothing went all the way through. We had to shoot that thing with a 45 to get the bullet to go all the way through.

I couldn't believe I was strong that way. TV is now, you breathe on them wrong and they break. Oh, you have to move that. One of my friends had one of those and it was like, you know, it was a big piece of furniture basically. That's what they are. Yeah, and it like had this huge tube that we're like way back. And we were trying to lift it.

And it was the heaviest, most awkward. And it only gave you the fingertip amount to grab underneath it. And we're like, going downstairs. I remember that was the most biggest pain in the ass thing I've ever had. How far away away you think from our phones, which are already super computers,

is just shooting up with a 4K HD onto your wall. I think we're like this close, right? We have to be close to that. Where you have, everyone has your streaming apps on your wall. I think we're like this close, right? We have to be close to that. Where you have, everyone has your streaming apps on your phone already, so you can watch your net, also that it's just like all you need is this super powered lens that would cast and shoot. Maybe like a sheet or something.

Well, yeah, that's easy. Yeah, a sheet of wall. You even have walls where you can paint with like a special paint, and just paint the wall, yeah, then it reflects off there really. Probably. I'd say it's around the corner.

Wouldn't you think that's the next evolution of the TVs? I mean, when the flat screen came around, you saw that coming, right? You saw like them starting to change the way the TVs were and they were thin and light, like that new technology. So what's the next big leap in that space? To me, that's the,

that makes sense versus the hologram. I don't know if that's ever gonna take off, but I've wanted it too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if watching a movie or hologram for just like the big action figures, a scary movie with a real hologram. I mean, terrifying. That'd be cool.

I think you speak of that. Are you guys watching? Are you guys watching Dumber? Where you at? I only watched the first step. Courtney's watching it. Of course. Oh, wow. Are you watching it? Murder driven. I'm not. Oh, wow. Interesting. I will. the first episode. Courtney's watching it, of course. Oh wow, are you watching it? Murder driven. I'm not. Oh wow, interesting. I will.

You know, it's like the mo, so in the morning, I mean, here's like an obvious prediction, but I guarantee that will be the number one Halloween costume this year. For sure. Dumber? Yes. For sure, that'll be the, it's like,

I think it's like the number one meme right now. A lot of people don't realize. There you go. His, his, his things like being used as a, I see you in the long way. He starts like dancing and getting all into it. Like I was like, what is this? A lot of people do not realize,

because Jessica had no idea. She thought, oh, Dom, or he's the guy that killed people in Adom. I'm like, he did a worse than that. Like I'm trying to explain to her, like he was in an necrophilia, he would come body parts and use them and do things and just weird shit.

You know our good friend Matt, I saw Max. Max was actually the reason why I finally turned it on because I was like, he was raven about it, huh? He said one of the best shows he's ever seen in his life. He put up there with like top 10 ever greatest. I told Courtney that too,

because she's watching, she's like kind of screens things for me and he's like, you know, am I missing out? Like, she's like, you wouldn't like She's like, you wouldn't like it. Like you and like it. It's just like, just a whole lot of, well, I mean, obviously, like every episode is basically about him kind of like struggling with the fact that like he's into dudes, like, you know,

trying to rack his style, whatever. But either than that, like it's just all murder and gay. It's, you know, okay, I, if someone were to pitch it to me, I would probably say, yeah, it's not really my thing or whatever I'll get around to it, I wouldn't be that excited. And what I found, and this is, I think, to, like, Max's point, the acting, the music, the cinematographer,

like, it's just very well done. It's accurate. Yeah, it's very accurate. It pulls you in, like, even something like that, which is not my vibe to what I mean. You guys know me, I don't even like scary movies, right? So like this, you know, creepy, and it doesn't get scary.

Yeah, you lose the sleep. I did. So the first time ever, this never happened when I watched a show before where I was getting nightmares every time that we watched it. And I told Katrina, in your nightmare, were you getting lured into some new time? It was weird stuff?

Probably, it was weird stuff. It was way too weird. It was weird, creepy dreams. So I told her, I'm like, we can't, I can't watch that. That can be the last thing I watched before going to bed.

But it has, it keeps pulling me in where I'm like, I'm fascinated by it. And they did a really good job. So you wanna know what sucks about all this is, so I was having a conversation with Vicki

and she's just, she was like, what makes like, what's the deal with conversation with Vicki and she was just, she was like, what makes like, what's the deal with serial killers? Like, why do they, because obviously, Dommar was crazy to terrible things, all that stuff. Yeah.

She's like, what makes serial killers do that? And so we have decent data on this. And part of it is severe trauma as a child in combination with the right genetic mix, either from genetics or epigenetics due to environmental factors like maybe mom did drugs when she was pregnant or something like that, right? But we don't quite know, but here's what we do know.

And this is a fact, and this is the thing that's crazy. We know for a fact that when serial killers or mass shooters or anybody who's like super crazy When we glorify them and create that and turn them into these celebrities you get more of them more of those So that was more of them. That's my fear about it being like the number one show in the country right now already happening Did you guys okay? I'm gonna pull this up. You know, so Geo just now miss you. Did he send it to me? He didn't send it to me Did he send it to you? He didn't send it to me.

Did he send it to you? It's in the group chat. Let me look it up, because I don't think it's pulling up. Why, did you ask him to send you some? I don't, I don't, oh, is that Stockton? Okay, there's a serial killer in Stockton right now that they're looking for. Oh, good, great.

Right now, was already killed five people, was something like that? Just recently killed, right now. Yeah, right now. I'm going to Sacramento, let's begin. Yeah, right now. Stockton's from Sacramento. Is it, I'm going to Sacramento. Let's begin. Right now. Yeah, wow. Stocking from Sacramento.

I think so. But I think it's within the radius of where serial killers. No, so, so here's, and this is a fact. We know this. People who are on the border, okay, who are crazy and on the border, when they see a glorified mass shooter,

oh, kid shoots up a school, here's their picture, here's their name, this guy, Dahmer, there's a whole series about them. People are gonna dress up for Halloween. Everybody's their picture, here's their name. This guy, Dommard, there's a whole series about him. People are gonna dress up for Halloween. Everybody's talking about him. It'll be the number one costume, guaranteed. You're going to create more of them. You know those countries that make it illegal

to broadcast a serial killer or mass shooters name? You know it's funny about that sound that you bring that up that I remember when I found this out years ago and I was fascinated by this. And it's, we do that with bank robbery. Yeah. Why wouldn't we do that with bank robbing. Yeah. Why wouldn't we do it? It's how weird I would be.

We don't worry about money. We're worried about someone stealing our money out of our accounts. What's the statistics on that? Because the, so many, 50% bank robbers get unreported. Yeah, they're like 50, 50. And they don't glorify him on purpose

because they don't want people to go to robbing. They don't want people to know that. They don't want them to know that it's actually pretty, I mean, it's 50% chance you get away with it. That's a pretty good, those are pretty good chances. Wow, good. Going in rough and rough. The legacy theorist in me is like,

why are they like, what are they allowing this? I don't know, but it's, to me, it's literally, this is what happens. Okay, serial killers haven't been a thing for decades. 60, 70s, 80s, early 90s, it was like serial killer time. Because they happened, they got glorified. By the way, they would save news articles with their name in them.

Some of them would write letters to the police to try to get them to chase them. So yeah, killer. Part of the part of the first news is the narcissism, right? Yeah, yeah. So all of a sudden now, dollars of empathy. Yeah, dollars like a celebrity.

So you got some kid or some psycho who's on the borderline, and he's like, I'm gonna go out with a bang, you know what I'm saying? So that's what makes me sad about this a little bit. Well, it's interesting to me a lot of the serial killers like back in the day, like how they're now attributing some of those of the MK Ultra experiments, like it's some of it tying back to that. Initially, yeah.

There's quite a few of them that they can like, and they think that like, Manson even was one of those started out. Manson used psychedelics as part of how we brainwashed. He had middle-class kids with young teenage boys, right? And that what he did? No, he got a group of people, and some of them were girls.

And I thought he was middle-class boys that were like teenagers. No, I thought that's what it was I thought he got them all high on psychedelics and convinced him to go do his dirty work No, well, yeah, but there was I think there was a girl or two and he was like very specific I thought I was like teenage always and come from like middle class. No, it was like well to do normal kids And through he would like brainwash them and use psychedelics and stuff like that and got them to do some of the most heinous Shit ever. It's really crazy. Yeah, so publicizing this stuff anyway the question Vicki asked me she goes How come they're always men why are serial killers?

Always men and that's a that's a good question You know the theory around that is that supposedly maybe we just never find the women They're smarter maybe First off female serial killers exist, but they're rare. They exist. It's because of the whole monster movie, right? There's about that. It's because nature rolls the dice with men more often.

We're expendable. So when you look at a chart, if you looked at a chart of insanity on one side, violence and insanity over here, and then extreme productivity and innovation on the other. So two extremes, a higher percentage of men make up the ends and a lower percentage of makeup the middle where you see more women in the middle. And that's because the theory is, evolutionarily speaking,

men can, the nature could roll the dice with men because you need women, you don't need a ton of men. One man can get so many women pregnant, one woman can only get pregnant. Once a year or once every nine months or so. So it's like, they roll the dice. So we're more likely to have that combination of genes. That makes us crazy.

That's a pretty deep way. Look at a simpler way to look at it. The likelihood that you would have a woman, the woman would have to be like a, in the top 1% strength wise to make sure she could handle all of her people she's trying to kill. Where the average man strength wise could hold down. Oh, no.

No, there's serial killers that kill people with poison. I know, but there's other ways to do it, but I mean, at least from the way they're depicted, there's always, there's almost always one with a struggle physically in order to... Oh, no. Believe me, if there's a small guy, there's been like guys that are not that big, I bet I mean, really it's, well, that's the main theory, the main theory is that that, because if you look at like insanity,

like insanity is much higher in men, but so is high productivity single-minded innovation type stuff, which by the way, that is also correlated with a little bit of craziness. You ever meet like a super creative, super innovative person, they're always a little weird. So, it's just the role of the dice, and so you're more likely to get, you know, both ends of the spectrum.

That's the theory at least, and it sounds kind of... Yeah, watching the show, it looks like he's like the perfect storm of all the things you need. Yeah. Like he has, like he genetically, it seems like he's a little predisposed to some of that stuff for like it runs in the family a little bit. He has major trauma that has happened.

Like he also went through puberty at the time that a lot of this stuff was going on. So he's connected some of that. So he seems like he was like the perfect storm for somebody who would turn into this. So the last one was Ted Bundy, right? There's a series on that. Yeah, so it's like it seems like it's just like a cycle.

And then they're going to go to the next serial killer to wasn't it goes so well right? Wasn't the killer and what's that? Science of Lambs? He was based off Dommer, right? I believe so. Oh, he was or parts of them, right? Because he ate, remember, he ate his victims. Yeah. The cannibalism part. Yeah I mean, I've seen sounds at lamb's I've seen Dom right they don't see me anything alike Maybe there's the cannibalism part of it or something like that But even that there I mean they're the way they're depicting it in the show is different

I don't mean on a way like still one more disturbing movies ever seen when I was a kid What remember the first time you watch? Yeah, I's just a, the dumb or thing it will disturb you on. Because it's real. Whole, yeah, and a whole other level. Like it's, it's, and they did a good job, man. I mean, that, that, they did that. It's not a show I thought I would watch, and it's, it found, I mean, look, it's like number one right now.

I think, look it up, Doug, what it's doing. I think it's breaking records right now. It is. Yeah, it's doing all the time. I saw an article on it. Did you? All right, so let's switch gears a little bit. I was listening to a conversation about,

so I've kind of been keeping track, like you Adam, keeping track of like what some of the experts are saying. People I trust at least about economy and markets and what's happening. And I mean, all, I don't think anybody or this now, but all signs are pointing to a bigger session kind of looming.

And I heard a great conversation. It was Chimoth on all-in podcast, which I love his input, dude, super smart. And he said, yeah, one of the first things that companies do when, because right now Apple is, I think either freezing, hiring, or letting people off.

I think Google said something like, if you can't come to the office then you can't work for us which automatically got rid of a bunch of people or no it was meta. It's absolutely that first. Yeah so and that's kind of like a easy way of laying people off is giving them an ultimate type of deal. You know this is the first time in history since Facebook has been around they will not grow employees. I mean these are the big monster companies. Google, Apple, Meta, like these are like, and they're like, if they aren't doing, if they're starting not hiring. So anyway, he said one of the first things companies do

is they cut advertising and marketing. And I was thinking about that. And this way I told you this morning Adam, so I love your input on this. It made me think like, because companies still need to market, no matter what, if you're a company, you have to market.

But they're going to cut marketing. So, my thought was what they're probably going to do is try to be much more strategic with marketing. And I feel like this could be a potential opportunity for content producers, because if you're like a social media, you know, quote unquote influencer, or you have a podcast, or whatever, you may not have the reach by yourself like you will with broad based advertising, but your conversions always so much higher because of your influence over your audience.

So I feel like. So the lean heavy on the conversion side of it over like the brand plays. Yeah, so instead they may be like, we're gonna cut marketing, but we're gonna be much more strategic. It was very optimistic in the podcasting space and for us and I was a little more pessimistic about it.

So I don't disagree with you, although I don't, I don't think it's gonna be a good thing for us. And the reason why is because one of the harder things about advertising on things like radio, television, podcasting is to be able to measure the ROI. You have to kind of estimate. And there's a lot of things out there that say like Edison did a report years ago about the behaviors around podcasts, consumers that nearly half of them don't even use the URL

that we drive. So you can't even track. Right. So you can't even track for sure. So I use that a lot of times when negotiating contracts with partners, I just tell them straight up like, hey, listen, everybody who wants to do advertising, they're looking for, you know, two, two and a half times ROI. And it's like, okay, well, if you're looking for two and a half times ROI, and I'm telling you that 50% of the people don't even use the URL, like you're really getting like four or five X. It's unrealistic. So I've had that conversation

of times to with partners that they go, okay, I get it. I four or five X, it's unrealistic. So I've had that conversation of times to with partners that they go, okay, I get it, I understand. So basically it's like as long as we break even that I'm okay. I think that because there is that gray area in radio, television, and podcasting, it's going to make those areas,

because I still have to deal with this. Even people that have had that conversation with, they're still like, we're barely breaking even, you know? Like you think we could do this or you think we that or maybe we'll slow down advertising. So I'm always having to have that conversation. I think you're going to see more and more of that. And the reason why is because you can go to Google, you can go to Facebook, you can do ads where it's very cut and dry. If you have a good campaign set up on Facebook or say Google ads, you can literally

get it, especially big companies that are sophisticated like this, that have good CRM's can go, okay, I'm going to put $10,000 into our advertising on Google or Facebook and it will return me $12,500. It's a direct. Because analytics are so specific. Yeah, very, very specific. There's no, there is no gray area There's no like I have my my person may or may not use now Do you think as as companies become more educated because there's still value in advertising with a content producer over Something like Google or face so I so that that part of I totally agree with you as become more educated, as the market and the economy goes down,

and they're looking at their mark, they're looking like, hey, we still need to market, we just don't want to spend as much time before. I just don't think we're there yet. So I agree with you. Do you think it's going to accelerate that because of the pain that they're going to feel? Because they're going to feel pain,

because they're going to be like, we need to market, and yes, we're getting this return from Google, but it's only giving us so much. That's a possibility, right? That this may be this next year to two years when we go through this time. It may be a root awakening for a lot of companies, or they might find out the hard way, right? They might, let's say one of our partners that's been with us for a long time and has been

okay with the ROI up until now. But now they have to cut costs, so they're like, you know, sorry, I love you, mind pump guys, but we just can't afford to keep doing this. They cut us. And then, you know, in six months to you mind pump guys, but we just can't afford to keep doing this They cut us and then and then six months to a year later They've been on this decline and they cannot figure out why their money's not there and you're right So they might and they might find out the hard way like oh, wow Maybe we were getting more revenue from them than we thought because we can't technically track it to that level because the future is Democritized media not old media and I agree with that also right so I agree Because the future is democratized media, not old media. And I agree with that also, right?

So I agree that the future is content creators. Like if you have a company in the future, you're gonna have to be connected to creating content. Otherwise, you're not gonna convert. Well, I just think the opposite will happen. It won't be that. It'll be, if you start a new company, you will immediately look to attach yourself to content.

Or do it yourself, which is unlikely. Yeah, that's what, yeah, because that's, we see companies try and do that. Because I mean, look at, look to attach yourself to to do it yourself, which is unlikely. Yeah, that's what, yeah, because that's, we see companies try to do that. Because I mean, look at, look at, here's your evidence. You have people like Kim Kardashian entering into a market like makeup and crushing the old companies that have been around forever. Just murdering them.

Yeah, Mr. B starts a chocolate bar, starts a burger joint, I'll say. And just murder's the number one chocolate bar and number one burger joint in like, so I like I feel like what's going to have what may happen is it and this is what happens What's his name said this on that show and I love it when he says he says wealth is created in Down turn economies and then it's realized and the upturn in other words when shit goes down That's when the like the these innovative new ways of doing business are created just because of the pressure. And then when the upterm comes,

that's when they collect. That makes sense. That's when they collect. So this may push, in my opinion, this is how I'm speculating here, it may push what's falling. You know what I mean? It may make it happen faster

where these companies are like, yeah, we're not gonna market the old way because we don't get the money. We need to be like specific. I mean, we're on the same page with that. I agree with that. You just don't know if it's the right thing. I'm not as specific. I mean, we're on the same page with that. I agree with that. We just don't know if it's the right time. I'm not as optimistic that I think that,

like, it's not gonna be that quick of a turn. It's like, unfortunately, we may have to feel a bunch of pain. Yes, humans tend to have to feel a lot of pain before they wake up and go like, oh shit, this is the way. Or, and then also, you're also assuming that they have the the back end to really be sophisticated enough to

know, like, oh, this is what's going on. I mean, I think there's going to be a lot of people that feel pain and don't realize it and are trying to guess. Well, so which brings us to another part of this, which is, and this was another thing that they said, that startups, this is a good opportunity for startups because when everything was booming and you were a startup and you wanted a higher talent, they came and demanded high salaries, all these perks because Google's hiring, Meta's hiring, Apple's hiring, all these other companies.

But now nobody's hiring, so now you may be able to scoop up talent. And so we may see small companies pop up and small companies love podcasts. So that was the point I was gonna bring up. The designers would be humbled. Yeah, right? Right? Totally big ass heads. That was the point I was gonna make up

when you you send over that graph that like showed how bad the money. Investment? Yeah, the investments. Cause I was gonna say, I have opinions on that. I think there's some positives to that. Is that you're gonna be able to get better talent right now. You're not gonna see these crazy inflated numbers.

And if you're, let's say, one of the startups that we invested in the last two, three years, because at first it's kind of like, oh, great. What are the likelihood these guys are gonna make it through this? Well, the truth is, if they do weather this storm, and they do make it through the next, you know, year to two years of this downturn that we're gonna have, then they're gonna be a very resilient company. And then when they catch the wave on the way back up, they're going to be ahead of a lot of people. So there's some, I think some positive sides to, you know, these startups or, you know,

the angel investing we've done, I think that if, if you make it through now, it shows that you have a pretty robust, you know, or run a tight ship, you know, as far as your business. And so it could be positive. You know, speaking of partners and stuff, so I was thinking about public goods, this company we work with for people who don't know, who they deliver home goods and products to your door, very environmentally conscious.

So the packaging is good, low waste, and they don't put any chemicals known to be, you know, hormone disruptors or whatever in the product. So it's really conscious company, but I thought about them because one of the things that annoys the crap out of me is I hate being lectured to by celebrities on shit that you know that they're massive hypocrites on. Like Leonardo DiCaprio, oh, the environment and the climate,

whatever, he's got yachts and private jet, the guys spewing more pollution than the next 5,000 people combined and climate, what have you got yachts and private jet, the guys spewing more pollution than the next 5,000 people combined. And there he is, you know. It's always the sky is falling information without like any actionable behind it. It's just annoying to me. And then I'm thinking like, you know,

the truth is if we really want to make an impact, the best thing you could do is not grand gestures. It's just like fitness, right? What's the best thing you could do for your health? It's not the grand gesture. This is last. What you do are the small things that you can inject into your life. So what you can do is look, you already use soap, you already use shampoo, you already

use all these household products, you have dog food, you have all these, all you switch to a company, you're not going to spend more money if anything, you'll save money, but you're going to get products that are more environmentally friendly. And if everybody did something like that, which isn't a big ask, right? It's not a big change. I'm not telling you to get rid of your car, ride a horse, or some crazy whatever,

or not drive anymore. All I'm saying is you're gonna use these products, you switch to a company like Public Goods, where you're probably gonna save money anyway, that's the best way in my opinion. And these celebrities making these big like, oh, you buy the bottles and you just buy the refillable packages that like buy it a gradeable. Bioded gradeable, it's less waste, you know, like it's an actionable thing you can do.

I mean between that and I'm always like plant trees and like everybody thinks that's ridiculous but you can look at the numbers statistics of what that does in terms of like lowering the emissions and carbon in the atmosphere, it's pretty substantial. Yeah, and they plant trees for every, I forgot how many dollars. Exactly, they're actually, yeah, so they're all backed behind that. Well, they're a pervading example of what you were just explaining about what's happening with, you know, companies and content. I mean, a company like Windex is going to eventually die. Yeah. I mean, that brand is so strong

because we know it just because it's been popular and commercial since we are kids and stuff like that. But when you can go and shop at a company like this where you know what they're doing and you can get behind it and you can get it in the hands of people like us that have a network that you're influencing and obviously we're not the only company

that public goods work worth. There's a bunch of other small network that you're influencing. And obviously we're not the only company that public goods work with. There's a bunch of other small companies that they work with. And so now you could literally take a company that would have no chance at competing with all these house products that we've all seen in our house forever. But this is to the point of what the guys on all in

were saying, we're only like a decade away from a lot of those big monopolies, completely dying. And the consumer is getting wiser about how they make their purchase. Well, the people that are loyal to those brands, that generation, that list of radio, and watches broadcast television, like the younger generation, doesn't do that.

They just don't, my kids don't understand old brands. They know brands that they hear from their YouTube content creators or Instagram or podcasts, so it's 100% right. And the thing is conveying a message that requires people to change their habits, you're more effective when you have an audience that really values what you have to say versus broadcast TV. That's like, you you know nuking something and hoping that you hit the right people or whatever. It's like this is like precision you know and I just compared nukes to new evercars sometimes my analogies don't

speak a partner again you know so I was at home last night watching TV and I had a really rough night of sleep the night before So I'm looking for my Felix Ray blue blue blockers. Couldn't find them So I found this old pair This is before we ever worked with Felix Gray of these other blue light blocking glasses But they're the orange ones and I put them on and I'm watching TV and I'm like this You know that's got a TV with orange lenses is not a good combo That's got to be the biggest barrier between people wearing blue, you know, not wearing blue light-blocking glasses.

They're on their electronics. They don't want everything to be orange. That's gotta be the biggest hurdle. So, you know, the biggest way ones are clear, if people don't know, they still block blue light, but you could say everything looks the same. Do we bring up on their last time we had their commercial? Did we talk about, you know, that they moved into contact lenses?

Do we talk about that? Oh, like blocking the contacts? that they moved into contact lenses? Did we talk about that? Oh, like blocking in contacts? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I didn't talk about it. We didn't talk about it, huh? No. Yeah, you guys know that? They have blue light blocking contacts.

They're working on it, but are they just contacts? Look, look, look, look, look, feel it's gray, it gets into contact lenses. I would assume that would be an angle would be having blue light. Yeah, why would you do? Why would you do? I would do conferences that are not are not blue light blocking right wouldn't that be kind of Counterproductive for the company. That's why hope that be kind of cool. Yeah, super cool. Yeah Yeah, yeah, if you work on a computer all day, they're quietly making moves dude

They really are I mean they they've since the very I mean since the very beginning I've always been interested in the in the company and who they've partnered up with. They went this slow route. I know they're on the higher end and stuff like that. So it's a little bit slower to adopt because you know right now the message around blue light blocking. Everybody is jumping on the bandwidth and what everybody does goes right to Amazon and looks up like the cheapest pair of blue lightlocking and they They're not that company again, you know, to the point when I made on the forum the other day It's like, you know, when we started this business, they're not all the same, by the way, they're all created the same.

No, they're not. Absolutely not. Just like everything isn't. It's just like the Viori Athletes you're wear that we wear is not created the same. It's just, I mean, one of the things that we all agree on, which I love that we were all on the same page, is that if we are going to do this before sponsors and partnership, if we're going to do that, we're going to go up to the best, not the cheapest, the fastest, the most convenient.

It's what we think is the best in a space or an area that we're interested in. And it feels great to me was 100% that when we were first to say that we're like, so I'm not sure if they're actually blue light blocking lenses, but they're designed to reduce ice strain. Okay. So if you're working on the computer a lot, it's got to block some blue light them. What's it saying? So superior structure meets long lasting moisture.

Is that what it says? Yeah, so they're more comfortable fit. They're with a breathability and so on with the lens. They have this optical center point which eases eye strain. Okay, so it's not like water rich lens materials. So basically a better hydration. Oh, I was just saying. So it's really designed for people who are in front of the screen a lot to you know have less

I-Strain. I wonder if he just saw an opportunity there in the space that somebody was of course It wasn't providing a better a better contact lens. Of course. Huh. That's really interesting. Do you use contact who's Context in here? Does somebody use context? I use context at night. I use a lens that actually reforms my eye at night And then in the morning I take them out and my vision is good. What? Yeah, you've called ortho-caratology. I've been doing it for like 15 years. Wow.

That's really cool. He really has brown eyes too, those are fake blue eyes. Yeah, you know. You remember when that was a thing when it was thing like girls would put different colors. Contrary to, I think purple. Did you really? Yeah, I think she did purple.

Or no, I think she did. I think she did. It was what she did. Yeah, you remember when that was popular for girls? Yeah, I think she did purple. Or something like that. Or no, I think she told me like true. It was what she did. Yeah, you remember when that was popular? I knew. Yeah, there was a point when like right when the color dye lips, it's real deceptive. Yeah, like, yeah, you think like they're like bright green eyes

are like, whoa, it's like striking. Yeah, super exotic. I mean, it's all part of the everything. I mean, I get it right there. They're already wearing like bright lipstick. Yeah, do you have paint to your face? I'm like, let's do your thing. Got me again. Yeah. Wow.

I wonder what in the future if we're gonna have like CGI faces, you know what I mean? Or something's gonna broadcast? Oh, did you see that article? Somebody sent that over to me. Oh, I gotta find that. Maybe Doug could look it up for us. Remember what I said about the future of acting? Was it happening? Oh, Bruce Willis. Bruce Willis. Did you guys see that? He sold his likeness for future CG. I mean you that was gonna happen. Yes Yeah, that's at least how wild is that gonna be how much did he make? I don't know in that

That's the start. I mean, I'm sure there's gonna be a Tom Cruise and the every other a list actor What I mean right in contracts I feel like I would I would take the less money have my liken and use my CGI, and I don't have to do no acting. That's awesome. I mean, you're seen in almost everywhere now, like they're bringing back old characters and movies and TV shows. It's gonna be weird.

Okay, think about, okay, try and figure this part out. Okay, think about the market. What that will do, how much I will disrupt that? Because now you could literally do 10 movies in a year. So now someone like Bruce Willis would be willing to maybe give out his CGI likeness to 10 different potential movies, because he can do 10 in a year. So now someone like Bruce Willis would be willing to maybe give out his CGI likeness to 10 different potential movies because he can do 10 in a year.

We're realistically what an actor can maybe do one or two a year or something. Now how far away are we from actors not being people anyway? And it's all create, like movie studios are gonna create through an actor. That's what I'm saying. No, not have to buy.

Oh, well, there's, no, see, I don't think that's gonna happen because we, you don't think that'll ever happen. No, we still as humans. I mean, you've talked about this before, like how, like, why we're into like the king and queen and royalty in the United States. It's celebrities. Yeah, but think about this way. Imagine if, okay, CGI so good that it looks real. So what you're watching on to you can't tell it's not an actor you think That's a real person and a movie studio creates a CGI character for a movie and it's so realistic and so good that you love that character or that actor That CGI and now that same person can be put in different movies by the movie studio. Yeah Have you have you seen those like AI generated scripts?

Yeah, you know, like pants. Yeah, they were all terrible stuff. Oh my God, they're so awful, but they're like hilarious at the same time, because it's like, the clunky, but like imagine once they start figuring it out, like what the, I think the more likely scenario is that

it's gonna be a extremely competitive market. And I mean, now you're gonna see YouTube stars sell their likeness. You'll see Instagram famous people sell it. Like movies will start going after characters that are famous online, whether it be through social media or any of these media platforms and potentially movie actors.

And then they will be able to sell their likeness. That to me will be because- That'll happen first, yeah. What I said is gonna be a while out, which I think could be potentially at, but I just thought of something. Are they going to, in that case, are they going to create regulations

that make it illegal or copyright infringement to use the likeness of someone else with like deepfakes? Cause you know, deepfakes are all over the internet. Sure. They do this to somebody over your like, right? Yeah, like they do this all, okay, they do this to actresses all the time. Well, they'll take their face and put it on a naked body and

we have nude photos or whatever, right? And it's really, you know, annoying to people and whatever. Like, does this mean are we going to create a new, because of this, potentially create a new regulatory system where you're not allowed to make a deep fake because that person's likeness is owned by them. Which I like, I like to. I mean, I'm someone's going to make a deep fake about you. I should be able to sue the shit out of them if we find out who did it, right? Especially if they're doing it to defame you or anything like that. So I absolutely. Now, at what point do you see them doing this with political leaders? We're

like, you're the president. And then they just use a CGI of you to give the best speech of all time. Who says they're gonna do that now? Or to think about it, you guys. All of a sudden, I was like, wow, Biden, he's selling sharp all of a sudden. Wow, he's not stumbling on any word. He's a lot of stuff that makes sense. Bro, you hear him?

Do you hear them trying to defend him when he was asking for the Senator that passed away like a year ago, or whatever, it was a Senator, right? How do you mean he's been him on anything anymore. He's he's that he's out there. That's dementia. It's he's in there, man.

It makes me sad. It's a problem. It is it is it's elder abuse, dude. At this point, manipulate. At this point, the dude is our president. I want all the positive things to have him. And he's running our country. I'm gonna choice this point.

So I think like an assessment, like, you know, like some kind of mental faculties, like checked, like, you know why? For the job, first of all, the, the, the, the Democrats don't want that. Of course not. Then that makes them look bad. Yeah.

And the Republicans don't want that either because who takes his place? Yeah. Kamala, right. Who's, she's a winner. Yeah. They don't want her either. Yeah.

So they're like, uh, and then if Kamala doesn't take it, who's after that? Was it Pelosi? So everybody's like, you leave't want her either. Yeah, so they're like, uh, and then if Kamala doesn't take it, who's after that? Was it Pelosi? So everybody's like, leave him in the chair. They only get forced from here. Leave him in the chair, leave the guy in the sound. I think it's bipartisan of this, but I think both both, you know what the Republicans are like, let's keep them in there.

You know what the strategy is to keep yourself if you're the president. One of the strategies to keep yourself like from getting attacked or whatever is to make sure that the VP is so crazy and scary that nobody wants to kill. Yeah, dude, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I suppose. Make sure you're running.

It's way worse than you. But I don't ever kill me. Yeah, cause you know, so it's all that they did. That's great. Hey, check this out. I'm sure you've already heard of CBD and it's all of its potential benefits. Here's the problem.

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Good. Good, man. I just wanted to quickly say, I'm a brand new listener. I've only been listening for like about almost two months now. Oh wow. And yeah, I just want to thank you guys because for like the past two months, I've just been listening. You guys are the only partners that I'm listening to now. And you guys have fundamentally

changed the way I think and the way I view fitness and health. So I just want to thank you guys for that. Awesome. Hell yeah. So a little bit of background. I'm 21 years old right now. I'm 5-11 sitting at about two 13 to 14 pounds. And my fitness journey just started maybe about a year and a half ago. I fell into the category of like skinny fat, not like too big but not like scriming, you know. Prior to that I never really worked out as much. It was usually like high school, PE, physical education stuff like that But I was I was normally more like insecure about how I looked and how I felt so Thank God my best friend shout out our money. I'll send them this podcast so you can start listening to you guys too He actually was the one who who got me into the gym and I think around that time in my life

I was lacking a consistency of like anything so the gym and I think around that time in my life, I was lacking a consistency of like anything. So, the gym became more of a help through mental health for me and that, you know, that blood into having a better understanding about physical fitness and health. So, I started growing a little bit more muscle, losing a little bit fat, but the number on the scale wasn't going down. But then I realized that if I just felt good and my friends around me were telling me, hey look, like you're sure to feeling you are feeling out, you're looking a little bit better, I was feeling good as well.

So the number on the scale didn't really matter at that point, you know? So I just working out, we fell into the category of powerlifting. So like bench press, heavy squats, overhead press, isn't stuff like that. And I built a lot of strength, I hit was hitting PRs. And I felt really good. Over some time, me and my boy came to a conclusion where we were like,

we kind of want to start a cut. And me being a newbie, I was like, what's that? You know? So we were looking up some information and, you know, guys and our 20s, all we have to look up to is like influencers online, which kind of sucks because like they're usually either trying to sell you a product or they're trying to get a pro card themselves and they're trying to, you know, it's different mentally.

Other than like, let's go. Honestly, we're just trying to look and feel good, you know. So we found this, we found this like super strict cut which was like keep in mind my calories weren't like I wasn't tracking anything I didn't know what that what that was at all so this introduced me to like to count in calories hitting macros and stuff like that so what we did this in cut which was about 1300 to 1500 calories a day. And I was feeling very depleted. I was always super tired.

The volume in the gym was like going down. I wasn't hitting the yards anymore. I actually went the way going down. But like fat was shredding off my body like insanely. I was around 225 to 30 pounds and I went all the way down to like 190 and I found out that I had abs. Muscle definition was coming out more and my even friends around me were like telling me bro bro, like you look good, dissonance and that, but I was feeling like shit, you know. It was really bad, but that's when I realized that body dysmorphial was a real thing and I would look in the mirror and I would just feel scrawny. So we did that cut for like

about two months. That was the lowest I got, so around 190. But then I started introducing more calories. I was feeling a little bit better, but I was still losing weight. Well, which is kind of weird because I wasn't trying to lose weight anymore. I wanted to gain muscle, like build muscle mass. So after that, I did a bulk. I started looking up information. I did a bulk for like about three, three, four months and um I didn't know how. I just basically what it said was intake more calories and workout heart. Um so I did that for like

about three, four months. I went all the way back up and wait till like around 2-12, 2-12, 2-13 and I continued doing that. I reached back up till like around 2-15 and I gained a lot of muscle mass. I was hitting new PRs and the ones I did before. I was feeling a lot better and I got to a size where I felt comfortable with doing another cut. So with my knowledge of cutting before which kind of created a bad habit with food, it was the only cut I ever did before. So I tried to do that cut again and my body was not bonding into it at all. I started it last month. I did it for like about, I trying to do it for like about two weeks and I was feeling, I was feeling bad. It was, again, I was feeling very tired. I wouldn't want to get up to go to work in the morning. I would come home from work and I would just like fall asleep for like two, three hours, wake up and

feel like crap with the gym. But yeah, so like, so like, um, my question to you guys is like, what's the best way to work out? Should I change my workout? Should I change my diet? What would be the best way to do that if I just want to get lean and feel good? Yeah, good question. First off, Cesar, you're 21 years old, right? Yes, sir.

Yeah. So, um, I want to commend you for mendus awareness, self-awareness at your age and how new you are to working out. The things that you're talking about and the way you're talking about how you feel, you mentioned body dysmorphia, that level of awareness through fitness takes people typically a lot longer and especially men. It takes young men a lot longer to get to the point that you're at now. So you are kicking ass. You're really at a good place with your self-awareness, and I think you're going to get where you want to pretty quickly here. There's just a few things that are missing, and one of them is just the right information, okay? You

just need the right information. You're one of those few people where if I give them the right information, I think that's usually enough to get that person to where they want to go. So here's what you went wrong before. Where you went wrong before is you cut calories to aggressively. Now any cut is going to reduce some energy and any cut you're going to notice a performance drop in the gym. Okay, so this is just normal, right? If you have a lot, if you have more calories, you got more energy, if you have less calories,

you have less energy. But your cut sounds way too aggressive, 13 to 15-year calories. I don't know where you were at before that. I'm based off what you're saying. It sounds to me like you went down a thousand or more calories based off where you were before. So basically what you wanna do, Caesar,

is if you wanna bulk or you wanna cut, you gotta figure out where you're at first before you do that, okay? So let's where you're at first before you do that. Okay, so let's say you're eating on average 2700 calories a day and you're like, hey, I want to start to drop some body fat. I wouldn't go from 2700 to 1500 calories. I'd go from 2700 to 2000 calories because it's less aggressive. You're going to get less of those negative side effects.

You're more likely to feel motivated, more likely to feel good, and you hit the nail on the head, like, okay, great, you're losing weight, but you feel like garbage, and you're dreading it, and you just don't wanna do it anymore. And then one of the things you touched on is that it became less effective the second time around. And this can happen when your cuts are too aggressive,

and you do them for too long. The body actually starts to become better at storing body fat and it starts to become better at holding onto it in a calorie deficit. In fact, in extreme cases, you'll see like high level competitors, bodybuilders, physical competitors, bikini competitors, and they'll talk about burnout.

And they'll be like, oh my God, my body doesn't respond anymore. I have to do more and more just to get down to the same body fat. So you just went to aggressive. You got to first track where you're at, and then from there, go slower, because you want to feel good while you do this.

Otherwise, for most people, it's not worth it. Like, okay, great. People are saying you look good. You got abs, but you feel like garbage. Like, I mean, you already came to that conclusion, right? It's just not worth it. Same thing with the bulk. You might have gone to aggressive with the bulk,

you know, and you kind of said, you know, basically eat a lot more and work harder. I mean, yeah, but it's way more complex than that. Really, a bulk is increase your calories, maybe 500 above where you were. And then your workouts, no matter what your strength training should always be aimed at building muscle, whether you're trying to cut or trying to build. Now why is that the case? Because if you're training in a way to build muscle, you're going to minimize muscle loss when you cut. And then when you're training to build muscle, you're going to maximize muscle gain when you're trying to gain. So those are the things that I would have you focus on. And I think if you, you know, based off the awareness that the way that you're expressing yourself, I think knowing that, I think you're

going to get there pretty quick. To be even more specific to what sourcing's that 100% agree with all the advice you just gave, I would get off the diet completely and eat when you're hungry. Make good choices, track for one week. So download your favorite tracking app whether that's fat secret or my fitness pal or whatever else is out there. And the goal for that week is to eat when you're hungry, but make good choices, and then just track

what do you consume on average. So then you get the total for the entire week divided by seven days, and then we find out that, oh, it looks like right around 2,700 calories is where you feel satisfied. You're not really putting on a bunch of weight, you're not going down the opposite direction, you feel good, energy-wise. There's homeostasis, okay? There's your cork maintenance. From there, depending on what you wanna do,

like Sal said, if your goal is to bulk, add 500 calories to the diet. If your goal is to cut, reduce 500 calories from the diet. And you can do that in two different ways. You can do that either one through creating more activity or by reducing calories or a little mix of both. Maybe I reduced 250 calories, but then now I go for a hour walk every single day that I didn't do before. That would also create that deficit. And then the last piece that he didn't really touch a lot on that I would add in there because I don't know if you're programming looks the same as what it has for the last year or so, right? But if it looks just like that,

and it has looked just like that for a long time, you might also benefit from changing up your programming and give your body a new stimulus. And so that can look at by manipulating rep ranges, rest periods, exercises. I think based off of what I'm hearing from you, I'd love to give you maps aesthetic or performance, either one of those I think would be a good,

new, novel stimulus from what you sound like you've been training, the combination of a new training program, following a diet protocol like that, I think you're gonna feel great. Yeah, I 100% agree. Caesar, I think performance would probably be better to start with for now. Maps performance.

If you're not familiar with that, it's a movement focused, kind of athleticism focused, strength training workout, so the goal is still to build muscle, but it's going to train your body in different planes of motion, which is probably different than what you've been doing, so it's going to help develop a more balanced body. From there, you can go back to what you were doing before or one of our other programs. Or aesthetic. Or aesthetic. Yeah, you can go back to what you were doing before or one of our other programs. Or aesthetic. Or aesthetic. Yeah, I go performance at a aesthetic.

I mean, literally that's how we wrote our programs and that order is to follow a kind of five by five S type of routine, which it sounds like you're kind of following, and then move into performance and then move into aesthetic. So Doug will send you over performance to go that route. Yeah, but I definitely want you to continue to listen to your body. And you know, you're going to get a lot of information out there.

I'm glad we're the only people you're listening to because there's a lot of, I mean, God, there's more bullshit out there than there is good information. But yeah, I actually fell into, like, listening to you guys on YouTube, actually trying to find the information that I'm asking you right now. Okay. listening to you guys on YouTube, actually trying to find the information that I'm asking you right now. So. I'll do. Well, good deal.

Well, I'll tell you what, even our information, Caesar, can sometimes be wrong for you. And what I mean by that is, listen to your body. If something doesn't feel right, if your energy's down, if you start to feel pain,

that's not normal workout pain, but like a joint pain, you notice your libido crashes. If it feels like it's too much volume, something recommended or whatever. Listen to your body because as an individual, there's gonna be a variance between how you respond versus other people.

And that right there is gonna guide you so well on this journey of fitness that you've just embarked on. You're ahead of the game already, bro. You sound for your age already with the questions that you're asking, like Sal said, I think you're doing great, dude. You're gonna have a great journey. Keep us posted along the way. You have questions.

Hit us up either on social or in the forum or reach back out to us, man. Keep digging into our podcast and everything else we got you. Yeah, listen to you guys every single day now. So you guys have some untenant out there. It's probably really hard to get through it all. So you guys are gonna be ones I listen to you guys every single day now. So you guys have some unt and out. There is probably really hard to get to it all. So you guys are going to be one side. Listen to a lot now.

Awesome. Thank you guys. Thanks for calling in, man. Appreciate you guys. Take care. You got it. How rare is it to hear a 21 year old who just started working out to talk that way?

Yeah. 21 year old guy. Yeah, you don't hear that a lot, especially his own self-awareness, like going through that and really analyzing, you know, how he was feeling through the O-process. It's like, we just wanna get bigger, we wanna get shredded. That's really like the main focus to figure that age.

Mia, 21, I would have been like, I feel like shit, but I'm still doing this. You know, I would have just not listened to it. Just push through. Just until my body just yelled at me. It's wild. I mean, you're right, his awareness of the day just so great. The fact that, but like he was at, you know, big and strong at one point,

felt like he wasn't big and strong. Got lean, got super shredded, lean, felt all scrawny. It's a, it's a really interesting how you, you play mind games. I mean, I, I think that everybody has a little bit of this in themselves. And, and I always think, and I think you've said it before in the podcast, so I'll like, you know, what, you, how many times have you looked back at a picture and said like, and go, damn, man, I looked really good there looking back at the picture. But then it also go, like, have the awareness go, oh, shit, you know what, though, I remember now that I think about it. When I was there, I thought I was this or I, you know, and it like, it really

takes you to get outside of yourself in that moment and to look back and go, damn, that's wild. It's really hard to be present, you know, and really acknowledge how you're feeling in that moment, because yeah, you look back at those pictures, like, man, I was awesome back then. And it was like, it's starving yourself or whatever. And it also highlights what the main driver many times is for all of us, you know, and it's, it is that process of getting to a place where you choose exercise, you choose diet and you choose training because, like Sal always says, you love yourself not because you don't, you know, it's, and when it's driven by, I don't like the way I look, I don't like the way I feel, I don't, it distorts the hell out of everything.

Distorts, because even when you're doing great, you still don't think so because it came from a place that doesn't work. I literally, I mean, okay, so two things happened. Jessica saw a picture of years ago, when her and I went on a vacation, she's like, oh my God, look how great, you know, because right now she's pregnant, right? So she's like, well, I can't wait to get fit.

And I said, do you remember, like literally that morning, because there was a conversation we had that morning where you were super critical. She's like, yeah, I know, I know. Same thing happened to me. I saw a picture of myself at 15. I was at work with my dad. I was wearing a tank top.

I mean, 15 was like the height of my insecurity, like the peak of it. And I looked at him like, bro, I was at Jack 15. I had been working out already for a year, but I was so, so self-critical. I thought I was like the skinniest, weakest looking kid in the world. So really, I'm mess with you. And then, okay, now to go and kind of touch on what we said

with Caesar, being too aggressive with your calorie changes is going to make it much more challenging. Bottom line, can you get there faster with a more aggressive cut or a more aggressive bulk? Theoretically, you can do that. I mean, there's studies that'll show, yeah, you know, if you cut way more calories, you can lose more body. But the weight affects your behaviors and the weight affects how you feel. I always completely disagree because how you feel is gonna dictate your behaviors.

And if you feel like shit, okay, fine, you lost into the five pounds of body fat. Let's see, we're gonna be out in five months or six months. You're gonna rebound in the opposite direction. Well, also, one of the things that played into his favor is that, there's a little bit of, I don you know, one of the things that played into his favor is that, you know, at that, there's a little bit of, I don't know, what's a good term for this like a metabolic resiliency

at that age, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can get away with doing some pretty extreme diets and stuff when you're in your teens and 20s. You've, if you've done that, you know, 10, 15, 20 times with a course of a decade or two decades, or you're in your 40s and your sleep isn't great. Yeah. So part half of the great results that he got from the massive cut was just because his

body is that resilient and he's got a lot of things working in his favor. You can, and it's so great that like you said, he had the awareness to know this already because you know, you could, you could fall into that trap of that's how you do it. You know, oh, this is how, the way it's time to die. I just starved myself for the next month and it'll get me to where I want to be and to be aware enough to catch that this early like he's really going to save himself from a lot of headaches in the future. Totally. Our next caller is Brian from California. Brian, what's happening man? How can we help you? Hey guys, I really appreciate you having me on. And first and foremost, I want to say, I respect a ton

that you guys are able to build a business around getting people like truly healthy. I work in the healthcare industry, and unfortunately, a lot of times, people that I talk to aren't that healthy, so it's really cool that you guys are able to do that. So, hopefully business is moving. Thank you, Brian.

Real quick, I'm going to interrupt you because I love what you said, and that's our goal. We want to prove that you can build a business in the fitness space doing it the right way. That's really our goal. Anyway, continue. Yeah, I mean, cool. Because it's kind of rare, right?

Like nowadays, I feel like six people are worth of money's at. That's it. So it would be nice if everybody started listening to Mind Pump and then you put me out of a job, I'd be happy. Can we work for us? We'd have to hire you at that point.

So there we go. Yeah, perfect. Sign me up. Well, so last month, I purchased the Skinny Guy bundle. And it's been super cool. I'm in anabolic phase two right now. First and foremost, hopefully it's OK. I split it up like upper lower just because I enjoy lifting

six days a week. I know for most people, the full body works better because they only have to go three days a week. I know for most people the full body works better because they only have to go three days a week but I mean is that kind of similarly results anyway? Yeah that's the same. Yep, you're fine. Okay cool. So my question was there are some novel exercises in there like stuff that I don't normally do one of them being shrugs and so it's been it's been really fun doing you know the shrugs that I don't always do. But my question was, I know that it takes a long time to build muscle, but like how long realistically if I'm doing it correctly, should I expect to actually see results and hopefully get traps like Adam as long as it doesn't make me moody.

Wow. That was like a shit sandwich right there. Yeah. Well, you can't have it all, do you? It takes approximately 23.7 days. No, there's no number. It's hard because there's such an individual variance on how quickly you could blow muscle them.

There's a context of your life and what you're doing. Yeah, for sure. I barely do them and Sal does them all the time and look how much better mine look. It's really crazy. There's going to be like a genetic side through. That's wild. God damn it. I work out twice as much as he does.

No, you know, it's, and there's also, you know, the other thing, two to keep in mind, there's not just genetic variance on how fast you could build muscle. And so we're a limit, by the way, I'm taking out all the context of everything else you do, right? We're just talking genetics. But then there's a genetic difference between your own muscles.

Like, you know, you may have body parts that respond really well. And other body parts where you're like, okay, why doesn't this seem like even exists? Like it doesn't even respond at all. So I can't answer that for you. And I can't even give you a straight answer as to whether or not shrugs are the best exercise for your traps. I know people where, you know, high poles

just blow up their traps or farmer walks way more than shrugged. So I can't answer that question, but I can say that if you consistently get stronger, consistently feel more and more connected to an exercise, you're moving in the right direction. I can tell you one of the probably challenges that you have, you actually look like you're burdened up to look, but you, based off of your numbers, are probably built similar to myself, 6305, having to eat 4,000 calories just for maintenance. I imagine one of the challenges that you have is actually probably bulking and building muscle because it's just hard to eat that many.

Are you super active at work? Is that what causes this? I'm walking around all the time. I don't do a ton of extra stuff. I play golf mostly on the weekends. I mean, I don't do like a ton of extra stuff. I mean, I play golf mostly on the weekends. I'll walk and carry my bag, but other than that, like primarily, I just like to get in and lift,

and then just a lot of walking. So there's not a ton of extra stuff just because, I mean, by the way, those golfing burns of fuck ton of calories. You, a lot of people are walking. Yeah, especially if you, I mean, even if you do the cart, I mean, you still,

I mean, that's a, you know, four hour day plus of, of a sport. And most of that is walking around. I mean, the swinging sure makes a little bit more calorie burn. But I mean, you, I burn a ton of calories when I golf. So I mean, it's, don't downplay that. I mean, there's a lot. And so I think a guy who has a 4,000 calorie maintenance and then you add in a golf day, I bet you burn like 6,000 calories on that day.

That's hard to be in a surplus. So do you tend to struggle with that where you have a hard time gaining weight? Yeah, I mean, that's been primarily the goal is to always, I mean, it's really slow. Like I've definitely gained weight, like especially since listening to you guys and like kind and prioritizing my

protein and stuff. It's been very, very slow, but I have noticed I'm building, I'm getting stronger. It just takes me a long time. How long have you been working out? I mean, I've been working out most of my life, but I don't know if you guys require, I actually called in one time before and I showed you guys a story. I primarily lived it in college, but then I actually called in one time before and I showed you guys a story, like I primarily lifted in college, but then I got really into like Spartan racing and stuff,

lost a like a ton of weight, and then during COVID, like around 2020, I started listening to you guys and was doing mostly like strength training, and then it's been over the last couple of years, like I put on a solid like 15 to 20 pounds muscle mass. Oh, wow. So when you put on muscle,

like what did that look like on the rest of your muscles in your body parts? Like, what did that look like? Like as far as like proportions or... Well, you're asking about like how long it takes you to develop, you know, your traps. Like, what did that look like in terms of gaining muscle elsewhere? Um, I mean, just very slow and gradual. I think my main, like the main question I was getting at was because I'd never do anything I mean, just very slow and gradual.

I think my main, like the main question I was getting at was because I never do anything really on the traps. Like would I expect to see quicker growth because it's so novel. Potentially, yeah, but it sells, sells way of answering is still true, right? Like there's certain thing, there's certain body parts and you probably already know this about yourself that you, you touch the weights and you see response right away and there's other body parts that you feel like you hammer the shit out of it.

That's what I'm getting at. It's like, you're gonna notice that. Like for me as a chest or legs, specifically anywhere in my legs, we'll just grow. And that's just one of those things. Like certain muscle groups just respond quite more substantially. What body part do you have that doesn't grow, Dr. C. I feel like I don't want to talk about that.

I'm talking to hard games and you shut up. Yeah. Whenever, go get a sandwich guy. Yeah, whenever I'm in the salad, talking about the calves, I'm always like, man, I understand the struggle. Yeah. Well, you know what? I tell you what, Brian, muscle building is slow. There's very, very few people on earth

where it's a fast process. I think I've met one or two people in my entire life. We didn't even ask you how old you were too. How old are you, right? 32. Okay. Yeah, you're fine. It's a slow process for everybody. I mean, look, a man, typical man, which most of us, when I say typical, it's like 95% of

us are going to fall in this category. 4.5% of us are going to be a little bit better. 0.5% of us are going to be better than that. And then of that 0.5, there's like 1% of that where you just build muscle and it's crazy, it's crazy fast. So for the vast majority of us, the average man can gain in a year with really dedicated proper training and diet.

I'm talking about lean body mass, not body fat. Just purely in body fat. Maybe 12 pounds of lean body mass in a year, maybe 15 pounds at the most. For the average female, six, eight pounds, maybe 10 if she's super consistent with her. And then after that, it really slows the hell down. It's like, then you're gaining like three, six, eight pounds, maybe 10 if she's super consistent with it. And then after that, it really slows the hell down. It's like, then you're gaining like three, four, five pounds a year or less.

Like, if I gained two pounds of lean body mass at 43 years old per year now, like I'm ecstatic, but it's not happening. I just wanna let you know, I'm not gaining any muscle out anymore at this point. So it is a slow process. And so really, it's really a game of, can you push your body to be more anabolic than catabolic? Because you're always either, right? It is a slow process and so really it's really a game of, can you push your body to be more anabolic than catabolic? Because you're always either, right?

You're either losing or gaining. And the goal is to be a little bit more gaining than a little bit more losing. And at some point, you're just gonna maintain it. At some point, you're just gonna fight being catabolic. That's once you pass a certain age, maybe in your 60s or whatever. So it's a slow process.

That's about it. Really, the best metrics are how you feel, strength, and then even after that, it's going to be connection. Do I feel the muscles working? Do I feel connected? Do I feel really good? That then becomes the best metric. One of the things to help do what Sal is saying as far as being anabolic more than your

catabolic is being aware of your activity and movement. Like that's why I brought up the golf thing. Like I don't know if you do a good job of making sure on those days, like you're staying for, yeah, eat more, you know, make sure that you, then you bring food on the golf course. Yeah. Okay. I was like, shit, bring it cooler with sandwiches. Yeah, and they have a golf car, goes, no, seriously, though. I mean, and this is, by the way, this is terrible advice, but I'm just gonna tell you something I used to do in my 20s that kind of got me over this hurdle of not

being able to put weight on because I played a lot of basketball. Was I'd have to, I had to pound like a sugar drink, like a 500 calorie drink of just calories and sugar before I played, and then again, refuel with something right afterwards just to account for all the calories I was burning playing basketball and then on top of my regular day. So, you know, and that really helped me get through this, that phase of not being able to eat enough. So, pay attention to, you know, your activity and try and make sure that you're increasing

your calories on these days when you're probably burning a lot. Here I'll make it even easier, Brian. Are you dairy intolerant? Can you have milk? Yeah, I mean, I do like way I split protein and cheese and stuff. Like straight milk isn't always the best, but okay. Well, forget that. I mean, I can.

I can. I mean, why are you saying like drinks, drinks, and milk? Bro, listen, if you can have milk, I want to say this right now in the podcast. It is nature's best bulking, you know, muscle building, easy beverage. There's nothing better. There isn't a protein shake that's better than milk. Now the problem is a lot of people can't tolerate milk, especially in large quantities, but if you added a glass of milk

to breakfast lunch and dinner, you added like 400 calories, and you added good quality protein, you added some sugar, and the fats aren't bad either. So just, I mean, literally you could just drink milk. Adam said drink a high calorie. If you added milk to every meal, you're totally wrong, that's it, you could just drink milk. Adam said, drink a high calorie. If you added milk to every meal, that's it.

You're done. You don't got to do much more. What's a midwestern thing? Bro, it's seen that a lot. I'll drink milk to every meal. That's it, right there. I'll have to revisit that because I tried, after listening to Carnivore MD, I tried the raw milk,

and that was kind of gnarly, so maybe I'll just do regular regular whole milk. But if you can't tolerate milk, that was kind of gnarly, so maybe I'll just do regular, regular whole milk. But if you can't tolerate milk and a lot of people can't, you know, make it a protein shake and you can throw, you know, maybe some fruit in there, something like that and that would be totally fine. I mean, the key is to make sure you're just getting calories before and after you're doing the activities like that,

that just burn a ton. And for a guy that struggles like that, remember for our audience, as listening to this, isn't like general advice that we tell everybody to do. It's like this is somebody who is struggling to put weight on, and so the advice starts to change a little bit, like you have to do different strategies than the average person.

But you're on track, dude. If you gained that muscle mass that you said you did earlier, and you're feeling stronger, you're on track, but I just take time. Three, hey, thank you guys so much. You got it man, thanks for coming by. Absolutely, have a good day. You too.

You know what Adam, I'm gonna touch on what you just said because I 100% guarantee you triggered a bunch of wellness freaks. So here's a deal, okay. And this is a fact. Now I'm not gonna say that this is everything because it's more complex than what I'm about to say. But this is a fact, 95 to 98% of the detriment that comes from things like sugar, saturated

fats, ultra-process foods even, is when your calories are higher than your burning. So if you drink a 500 calorie sugar drink, and that puts you at such high calories that you're like a thousand calories over, and you have to lose fat because you're overweight, you're going to have lots of health detriment. If your problem is like with Brian, where you can't get enough calories to gain weight, and that 500 calories of the sugar drink makes up the difference,

he's probably not gonna notice any health detriment. Now, that doesn't mean he may not notice effects on his behaviors, because what may happen is it may make him feel ethargic, it may make him feel crappy, you're irritable in which case then, it's not a good idea, but based off of just metrics and blood lipids

and just overall health, like taking behavior out, which again, behavior can definitely be affected, then it doesn't make that huge of a difference. So when I'm talking to a hard gainer, and I'm like, yeah, you know what, make a shake with ice cream in it, and you know, throw in some peanut butter and some protein powder and whatever,

and I'm like, you know, if it doesn't make you feel crappy and that helps you hit your calorie targets, you're fine. I'm right. That's just the bottom line. So I know people are gonna get... Oh, I knew they wouldn't do it. I know they will too. And the truth is that it's,

I'm not saying what I think the best thing for your body health-wise is it's like I'm trying to help something that I know you're having chat. I mean, you're 30-something years old, you're having a hard time still putting weight on. I've been there. Like I've been there before, training like crazy, trying to eat all about,

and it's just hard to get for 5,000 calories without using that. I mean, do I think absolutely he should have chicken breast and white rice instead? Would that be a better choice? Yeah, okay. Try doing 5,000 calories. Yeah, try doing that.

Before you go golf, you know, it's just not, it's not not reason. It's not realistic for most people. And so it could also be unhealthy in the other way, Adam, because imagine if you tried to go to 4,000 calories and do it with like what would be considered super healthy food and as a result of that, you're there literally force feeding yourself, right?

It's also psychologically, there's a psychological unhealthy. I did that, I did that. What if you could make up the different, what if you could eat 4,000, say you could eat 3,000 calories of these really healthy foods, that extra thousand calories, you're like, if I do it with chicken breast

and vegetables and what I'm gonna force feed myself, or I could eat this hyper palatable food that actually will make me want to eat it. Well, yeah, there's a way off. And one of them is like, well, I'm not gonna sit here force feeding myself for an hour. So I think that that's a better option. So my point is it's way more complex

than the way people make it sound. And people in our space often do the whole black and white thing which it's never black and white. Our next caller is Alex from California. Alex, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it a lot. So I guess pretty quick back story. I started wrestling when

I was about four years old and continued on to about 17. I've never stopped. I continued to help coach and still wrestle to this day. I started working out at about 13, 14 years old. I now work in law enforcement. I work night shift and about three to four, 16-year-olds, a week. I started noticing a really big downfall in my mood, my sleep, appetite, workouts and all that. So I want to go get tested. My testosterone was a lot lower than I expected. It was about 307 and they put me on TRT. So I do feel a lot better being on it. It's been about six weeks, seven weeks give or take. So my question is pretty much,

how can I produce my testosterone naturally to eventually get off of this? Because I don't want to forever. Yeah, good question. All right, so a couple of things I want to touch on. First, I want a little disclosure, I'm not a doctor, but I'm going to speak out of personal experience. What I know, and then I'll recommend you do two,

a doctor that I think is probably... Yeah, are you not in our, are you not in our private forum or our forum for testosterone? No, I'm not. I'm not. Yeah, well, shame on you Alex. Yeah, Alex, but when we're done, I'll, I'm gonna point you in the right direction. Okay, but a couple of things I want to, I want to mention, just to paint the context. So of all the sports you can compete in and train in, especially as a kid and up through high school, the hardest working, I mean, just physically hardest working athletes among the top or wrestlers. Wrestlers, Polo, water polo is another one. Like, you know this because you wrestled. They beat the crap out of you. And then on top of it, especially if you if you

wrestle in a weight class like what weight class did you wrestle in? High school was one 15 but offseason I was about 135 there it is right there So unless you're like heavyweight super heavyweight where there's no weight limit When you wrestle they beat the shit out of you and then on top of it unlike football football, where for the most part, they're like, just go ahead and get bigger, especially when you're in high school. They're like, you're gonna have to drop 20 or 30 pounds every season just to make your weight class.

So it's one of the most, and by the way, this is why wrestlers are such hardworking people. If you've ever, I mean, if you watch MMA, you notice the wrestlers in there can outgrain anybody. They have another gear because their whole lives, they just know how to deal with just feeling like shit. It's because they beat the crap out of you and you got to make weight and you got to die it and you got to do all this crazy shit and use a sauna last stuff. So which I hope you

didn't do in high school, but I knew a lot of high school students where the coaches would actually make the gym a sauna to make help you make weight. So I'm sure that happened to you too. So it's insane. And what this will do is this will beat the shit at your hormone levels. This will hammer your testosterone levels. Then you combine that with working a night shift and there's a direct effect with your circadian rhythm and testosterone.

So my guess is because you train since you are four as a wrestler, you have a very distorted view or perception of appropriate levels of training. For you, appropriate training is probably over training. So you're probably working out too much and too hard and it's, I don't blame you. You just- Enough recovery. Yeah, you were raised this way, man, and so you really don't have a good gauge. So what I'm gonna tell you right now is I'm is, I'll send you a workout plan and just follow the workout plan and do nothing else.

Do no other workout plan, do nothing extra on your own because your gauge of intensity and volume is all messed up. I'm gonna tell you that right now, especially since you've been wrestling at four and having to make weight classes. I could tell you that right now with almost all certainty. Now with the hormone, the testosterone replacement therapy, I'm surprised that they put a 26 year old on testosterone

Before trying to get your testosterone levels to raise with something like HCG and Chlomaphine which are Medications designed to get your natural levels to come up So typically what you do first before you do TRT at that age at your age Yeah, because when you're under the age of 30 or 35, usually a hormone specialist can say, you know what, let's try this first and see what's happening. So here's what I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna point you to mphormones.com and what you can do, Alex, is you can go on there and get an evaluation. So you can request a 30 minute or 60 minute evaluation, bring your labs, bring your whole thing, and then the doctor's there, which we've already vetted, are gonna go through your protocol and they'll tell you, based off what you're

saying, hey, we think you should do this, or maybe you're doing the right thing or the wrong thing, I think what they're gonna recommend is that you try to go on something else to see what you can do naturally with your testosterone levels. That's what I think they're gonna probably do, but again, I'm not a doctor, so I can't put words in the mouth.

And even if they don't, they might, they might say, you know, let's stay here with a TRT until we can balance everything kind of out and you feel actually good, and then we can start talking about how we would pull you off so that might be a possibility. Now, the other thing I'm gonna say with your night shift is here's what you're gonna have to do.

And if you're not already doing this, try doing this. Your bedroom at home, you're gonna need to black out completely because you're going to sleep during the day. So you're gonna need to black out your bedroom 100%. And then about an hour before the shift is over, I want you to wear blue light blocking glasses. So, and because of your job, you need to stay sharp. I would use Felix Gray glasses because they don't change the color of everything

because normal blue light blocking glasses will make everything orange or red. So you want to wear blue, Felix Gray has this patented way of blocking blue light without changing everything, the color of everything. So put those on and hour before your shift is over. What that will do is it will tell your brain, hey, the sun is going down, it's kind of time to get ready to go to sleep. Then when you're off, keep those glasses on, go in your bedroom, that's blacked out, and then try to go to sleep.

And what we're trying to do is we're trying to trick your body into thinking it's night time when it's daytime. And then when you start your shift, when you start your shift, you can use red light therapy after you wake up or you can get and or use these kind of full spectrum light bulbs because what you wanna do is you wanna expose your body to light to trick it. Basically, you wanna trick your body into thinking

it's daytime when it's night and nighttime when it's day. That's your best bet. It's not perfect, but it's better than what's, what you're doing right now. Yeah, all these interventions make perfect sense in this situation because, I mean, how long do you anticipate being on the night shift? Is this going to be like a few years? Is this something that, you know, you're just going to do for this year?

It's been about three years now and then probably another three to four. Okay. Yeah, that's a tough, I mean, it's a tough place. Like you said, it's any intervention at this point is going to have to be accounted for just because it's so important with circadian rhythms to be able to try and get adequate recovery and sleep. That's your utmost importance. Yeah, you're going to have to hack. This is where biohacking becomes valuable because you're literally going to have to trick

your body. That's what you're trying to do. So two hours before your shift is over, don't eat any food. One hour before where blue light blocking glasses, when you wake up, expose yourself to red light, red light therapy or use these kind of full spectrum, what are called light bulbs that simulate, you know, like sunlight, if you will. It's not a sun lamp, you're not going to tan, but it gives you this kind of broader spectrum and make it bright, wait about 45 minutes to an hour before having caffeine,

and then go and eat food. But so your goal is to really trick your body as much as possible because working the night shift and having your body be up when it's not, when it doesn't wanna be and asleep when it doesn't wanna be, it's got some serious long-term health effects. This is health effects. So my wife was on this for at least five years and it was pretty detrimental.

So we had to do everything and anything we could to try and get her to get good sleep. How many days a week are you training? Right now only three on my assigned three days off. Okay. I'm going to send you maps and a ball of Alex. I want you to follow the two day a week plan on it. And that's it. I don't want you to do anymore.

So just do the two, there's an option for two or three days. Follow the two days on it. You could do trigger sessions on your off days, which are just like five to 10 minutes, but I don't want you to do any more than that. And I want you to be very careful with the intensity. I want you to train at a moderate high intensity, not at a high intensity.

So go easier than you think. Because like I said, you have that gear that's kind of now a part of who you are. And I'm pretty sure I was hitting the nail on the head, right? With how you trained as a wrestler and how you probably push yourself to your heart. Yeah, I mean, I know I realize that, but that's just the way I was,

like you said, the way I was raised in train. So it's kind of hard to shut it off. Yeah, so just like literally follow the programming and just don't listen to what you think. Is it is hard enough? Yeah, this is probably more. Yeah, less is gonna be more. And do that for a little while.

I think you'll feel better. All right, thank you guys. Appreciate it. You got it, man. Thanks for your service. Thanks, Alex. Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

No problem. You guys ever work with somebody who's wrestled since they were kids. Oh, yeah. That is so brutal. I mean, I, I mean, I really think it's all athletes, but wrestlers are up there at the top as far as their, their ability to endure, right? Like they can they gotta make weight class. I mean, they, they, they put them, they pushed them through a one of the most disciplined athletes. Yes, far as the, the levels of exhaustion and the amount of colork deficits in, yeah, no. So there's-

You ever see wrestlers walking around in high school, spitting into cups, trying to get rid of walking? Oh, yeah, and wearing those suits that just, you know, they have to sweat to make quick cuts. Yeah, I mean, you train your whole, and you know what, if he was probably successful, he did most of his life and now he's a coach,

I'm assuming he was pretty good at it. Yeah. You have a lot of success with that. That's, I think, that's what makes it even successful, right? He did most of his life and now he's a coach. I'm assuming he was pretty good at it. Yeah. You have a lot of success with that. That's what makes it even worse, right? It's one thing if you went through a phase, oh, I played sports from high school for a little bit. We trained this way. It's like, yeah, since I was a kid, I was really good.

I'm a part of the identity. Oh, yeah, 100% a part of his identity. And so, yeah, I had nothing really to add to yours as far as the advice, because that is, you know, he needs to pull It's one of the sports. It's one of the only sports I can think of whether there's a couple that says Work until you throw up and then also watch your food intake and don't eat too much You know other sports on this you know, you know, you said something I want to add to though

About the biohacking and this is really an interesting point that you made. So rarely ever would I talk about the red light and the philous craze and- And doing all those little things? Yeah, doing all these little, we'd always be like, okay, let's assess your programming, let's talk about your diifers. But this is an exception to that rule because-

He's working the night shift, I'm gonna do. Yeah, honestly, yeah. You're basically creating an artificial environment for yourself because you're not going to sleep when everybody else is. So it's like you have to create this little bubble for yourself to be able to get adequate recovery. I mean, just an example of what there's always an exception in the rule. This is an exception where this person, my advice, starts to change.

It becomes more about just getting him to feel better, minimizing the amount of stress that his body's feeling right now, getting him as much adequate, and that's us, you normally wouldn't do that. You normally wouldn't say that to a person who's struggling with their training. We would go so many different directions, but in this case, that makes a lot of it. Totally. And I really do hope he goes to mphormones.com because, again, I'm not a doctor. We'll help him out.

But I do find it a little strange at the first place that they went with a 26 year old with And I really do hope he goes to mphormones.com because again, I'm not a doctor. We'll help him out. But I do find it a little strange at the first place that they went with a 26 year old with testosterone. That was, you know, low, but not so low that is like, oh my God, right? But it's still low. They went straight on to make a prediction right now. Yeah.

You know, I set a long time ago on the podcast that I think that the hormone replacement therapy is going to be the next. Yeah, I know we're going to. Can't have a listen. The next thing that we're going to be the next cannabis. The next thing that we're going to see is a lot of this now because they have opened it and there's this gray area they're operating in very similar to the cannabis industry. And just like what I saw there, this is where you get so many people in there you're going

to see a lot of shady visits. It's going to be hard to find the really, really good companies that are doing this because everybody's going to be doing it. And people are going gonna attach themselves to what a good company is based off of you know some popular influencer or a bunch of people Oh, I tried them. They're great or oh, they hook you up or they give you more than everybody else does like so You're gonna see a lot of that competitiveness to get to get customers Which is gonna be unfortunate because I bet we're gonna see more more questions There's a big difference between 26 year old low testosterone and a 46 year old low testosterone. Usually, and how you treat that.

Again, I'm not a doctor, but... Especially if he's saying that his goal was to not. That's what I thought was kind of crazy. I mean, general, your typical GP would be hesitant to even give it to someone like this. And then if he's also saying, like, hey, how do I get off this? My goal is not to be on it forever. I just, that's it really weird to me. It smells like, okay,

some, you know, company that's that just your pay this monthly fee. Yeah. Here's your testosterone. Yes. Yes. Our next caller is Chris from Oregon. Chris, what's happening, man? How can I help you? Hey, thanks again for being here and answering this question for me. So my question is really more about performance rather than health and basic long-term sustainability. So I've been lifting for about 15 years, pretty consistently.

I'm 35 years old right now and I'm 5.11, 184 pounds. So over about six years ago, I got into marathon running and I've been trying to balance marathon running with weightlifting and I've kind of hit a plateau with the marathons and you know, it's a pretty good marathon that I can run but to really kind of break through that next level,

I think I need to be a little bit lighter and I've been dexascanned about three times in the past year and a half. I always come in at about 11% body fat and I find that if I try to get much below that, maybe into the very high nines or low tens, I really start struggling with my training. And basically, I don't know how to now get to maybe 175 pounds so I can race faster without feeling either like total garbage and therefore not being able to train for the marathons or pairing off some muscle. So I have maps and a ball like and I have map maps performance, both fantastic programs.

I love maps performance. It works so well for me. I love that type of workout. But running it, even at those higher rep ranges that face, I think, two and three both have pretty high rep ranges, I'm not going to lose any muscle at a minimum. So do you have any suggestions on how I might go about this with the maps program or am I looking at this all wrong? Yeah, this is actually easy.

By the way, maps is too effective. So if you're following out of the program. No, it's not too big, man. No, no, no, no. I can tell you right now what your problem was before. I've trained a couple of marathon athletes, and we had to do this. The reason why you did this wrong before is you tried to do it through diet. Am I right?

You tried to get leaner, dropping weight just yeah, yeah, that's a problem because you need the calories For fuel and now here's what you do don't think of The losing muscle process as a burning muscle off process think of it as it had adaptation process It's literally this easy. This is all you got to do lift weights less and run more Okay, and your body will adapt in a way that makes you better at running. So rather than doing two days a week or three days a week of strength training,

keep it one day a week, keep it very basic. You're training for a marathon, so you're gonna be running a lot anyway. And it's gonna help maintain some of your strength and you're gonna lose some muscle. And that's about that. So what's gonna happen is you just get better at running, which means you're gonna probably

pair some muscle down. So I wouldn't lift more than once a week at the most. Maybe 45 minutes at most, keep the intensity, moderate at high at the highest level, and just do your running. And you'll find that you'll start losing muscle. And don't worry about the diet, fuel your body with the appropriate level of calories.

Who is our buddy who's a fan of the show we had him on a long time ago? Zach, thank you, Zach Bitter. Yeah, yeah, you follow Zach Bitter, you know who that is? He's a great one. Oh, of course, yeah, Zach's great. Yeah, did you know we interviewed him a long time ago? No, I didn't, I gotta go find that.

Yeah, yeah, go back at what long time? Like five, I've got it after that. And you've got that, yeah, yeah, he's, I really like what he does leading up to the race and what he does nutritionally. I thought was really interesting and counter to what I would have thought back then. So great interview that we did with him and may apply to some of the things that you're doing. What's your time, Chris?

What do you, what are you clocking in at? Right now I'm at 233 at 185 pounds and I'm trying to get below 230. Yeah, no, no, what is it to qualify for Boston? Is it, do you have to get below 230? Is that why that's your number? No, no, Boston for me at my age is 305. So you're there.

That, yeah, it's on there. At this point, I want to see how good I can do. Yeah, that's purely it. It's literally as easy. Just keep feeding yourself and run more and lift less. And your body's going to change and adapt. And by the way, here's what may happen. This is going to fuck with you a little bit.

Your body fat percentage is probably gonna go up because you're gonna lose some muscle and the scale may not go down as much as you think because of the little bit of a transfer but you'll get better at running. So I wouldn't even worry, so don't worry too much about the weight or anything like that. Just measure your performance.

You'll probably, you'll lose muscle through doing that and you'll lose some weight. Your body fat percentage may go up. Don't get hung up on that though, okay? Cause some marathon runners, actually I would say this, there's quite a few marathon runners that I trained who performed better at 15% body fat

than they did a 10% body fat. Oh, I would think that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I would, I mean, it's a stored fuel that you can tap into it on so it's not. They just felt better cause they were able to fuel themselves.

There's of course people that, well, you got to think that the lower and lower we get body fat percentage, the more and more you're, we're sitting at a signal to our body to freak out a little bit and operate correctly. You get really, really low like that and then you're also pushing it. I just think that you're going to operate better

in that 10 to 15% range than you will ever at like a six or seven for a total of marathon runner. Do you not feel like it's explosive as you're running? Like is that something of focus of yours that you've noticed? No, I feel pretty, it's pretty great when I'm running. I mean, the training's really, really solid. It's just, you know, people that are my, yeah, the people that are my height that are trying to run, you know, sub 230s,

they're usually about 140 to 145 pounds at most. So 40 extra pounds carrying around for 26 miles. It's typically not, not the same guy, you know? Yeah, yeah, so I'll hit it on the head though. It's actually not that, you know, it's the greatest times mentally, you know, because you probably like, you're probably one of the more buff looking runners out there. And that probably feels like. Yeah, 184%, 510% body fat. You probably look really damn good. And so you're and you're

asking a performance question. And so the answer is, you know, care less about, you know, kind of how you look and actually just lift a little less and keep running the way you are or more. And your body will actually get up. You could pick one of the workouts for mass performance, one of the foundation workouts and just do that once a week. And that's pretty in the mobility you can always do of course because that's going to be good for you. I'm going to make a prediction, Chris.

I'm going to predict that you're going to get there and then you're going to not like it. You're going to want to go back. My life already hates the idea. So yeah, probably so. But I get it. I get wanting to attain goals and. Well, yeah, you're kicking ass. So I mean I would I'd be here I'd be wanting to kind of see what I can do. I don't want to win. Yeah, yeah, so I get it so season phase

Yeah, but that's it just lift lift the way less and and keep running the way you are and it'll happen Hey circle back though. I'd like to hear how it how it goes for you All right, cool man. Hey, thanks again for all you do. I really appreciate you You got it right you know, you, the first time I had a client that where this became a thing, I did it totally wrong, right? So I got this client, Marathon Runner. That was their main focus. I'm sure to have them do more lift.

Well, I was trying to get him shredded. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, muscle is good. Let's just get you lean. And he's like, and he was, he was getting leaner. And he's like, my times are worse and worse and worse. And I'm like, what the fuck? And then I'm like, maybe he just needs to be smaller

and maybe have a higher body fat person. So I said, hey, listen man, I'm gonna train you once a week for 30 to 45 minutes. We're gonna stop this lifting, you're gonna just run and you're probably gonna lose strength, you're probably whatever. And then let's see what happens. And lo and behold, he got way better at running.

And then of course it's one of those like face palm moments like, of course. Well, I didn't too, I only asked, and I know he's doing straight training. So that makes sense that he would feel like he's strong and like explosive as he's running. Cause that was an issue with some marathon runners. I've trained before was they just,

they didn't have that kind of snap, but you know, to be able to have break away speed when they needed it. But it sounds like he has that. So now it's really just about, you know, like managing his energy appropriately. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. They're all free and they can help you with most health and fitness goals. You can also find all of us on social media.

So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump. Justin Adam is also on Instagram at Mind Pump. Adam and you can only find me on Twitter at my pump cell. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers,

but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindP Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time this is Mind Pump!