Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1931: How to Break Through a Muscle & Strength Plateau, Ways to Put an End to Recurring Injuries, the Relationship Between Fatherhood & Lower Testosterone & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live, caller's questions, but this was after a 52 minute introductory conversation where we talked about current events, scientific studies, fitness, our lives, and much more.

Starting point is 00:00:29 By the way, you can check the show notes for timestamps if you want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email your question to live at minepumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Sleep Me. This is a company that makes devices that dramatically improve the quality of your sleep. So one of them, my favorite is the uler.

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Starting point is 00:01:54 interested, go to mapsfitinistproducts.com and then use the coupon code October 50. That's October 50. No space for that discount. All right, here comes a show. And it's T-shirt time. Oh, shit. You know it's my favorite time of the week. We have four winners this week, two for Apple Podcast, two for Facebook, for Apple Podcast. We have MK Dodd 5-6-2 and Selfie-Nee. And for Facebook, we have Megan, Meg, Megs and Hellemann Solis. All four of you are winners,

Starting point is 00:02:27 and the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Look, here's the deal. You can speed up your metabolism, contrary to some fitness influencers on social media, it's true, you could definitely make your metabolism much faster.

Starting point is 00:02:47 Is that, people are saying you can't do that? You know, here's what I like, what I love and what I don't like, I don't wanna say love, what I like and what I don't like about our space is the same thing. And here's what it is, because it creates opportunity for us. Totally.

Starting point is 00:03:04 Most fitness influencers, most, yeah, they're idiots, like total idiots, they communicate terribly, bad information, and they play this game with counter to try to gain attention. And what's happening right now because what's really gone, or what's become common knowledge in our, I guess in our space, right, the coaching fitness space, is that you can do what's called a reverse diet, you can train a particular way, speedy primatables and then make fat loss or sustainable fat loss much easier.

Starting point is 00:03:35 Well, now I'm seeing these people on social media, these quote unquote fitness influencers, and they're saying things like, yes, Mrs. Johnson didn't lose weight on 1200 calories and then we had her eat more and then she went back down to 1200 calories and she lost weight. What really happened was she wasn't at 1200 calories to begin with and then you see comments underneath

Starting point is 00:03:55 or whatever. And it's annoying because it's not true. Number one, now can that possibly be true? Yes, but what's annoying is what they're doing is what they're inferring is That you can't affect your metabolism in the positive now. We have Very hard data to show that metabolic adaptation happens in other words your body can learn to burn less calories If you're in a low-calorie

Starting point is 00:04:19 Environment if your activity looks a particular way, but for some reason when the conversation goes around moving in the other direction, the people will say, no, you can't do that. You can't make your metabolism faster, which is going to be. So their answer is just basically that they've miscalculated. Yeah. That's what they're amounting the increase to be towards. That's one in like a thousand people. Yeah, I mean, that happens. Sure. There's a anomalies. Yeah, I mean, I mean, that happens. Sure, that is anomalies, like, but. There's clients who, I mean, just, yeah, there's clients who came to me who's, oh, I eat this much. And then when I actually tracked

Starting point is 00:04:51 and we figured it all out, it's like, no, you don't. And now you're eating correctly. And that's why we're losing weight. But that's actually really rare. Really, really rare. I mean, I remember when I used to get a client who would tell me like, oh, you know, like, openly, like, out of my, you know, I candy this many times a day, I go to McDonald's, this, like, and they're like, I looked at

Starting point is 00:05:09 their calories and I'm like, oh my god, this person's eating 5,000 calories every day. And they're, I used to love that. You know, this can be easy. Yeah. Tighten their diet up. They're going to draw what was more common was someone who's just like, I out of my disk in this, you know, all day. This is all I eat.

Starting point is 00:05:23 And I'm struggling with, with way, and what you know is that a majority of the time they are eating like that, then they have the one day where they go off the rails, which puts them over the surplus so bad, which, and they, But they're just not burning much. Yeah, they're not. Their metabolism is extremely slow.

Starting point is 00:05:37 And that person is the person that we had to reverse out. And it took months, sometimes even longer for some people to build that metabolism. But to say that you can't do that is ridiculous. It's silly, it's totally unhelpful. It's totally unhelpful, and the person who's listening to that who is struggling, you give them no hope.

Starting point is 00:05:56 Well, it also feeds into one of the biggest issues I have is just cut calories, move more mentality because I think that's a losing battle for most people. Just, that's, I think that's the trap most people fall into when they decide they're getting on their fitness kick as they go, oh, I just need to eat way less, move way more. And they just, and they don't balance out their macros. They don't try and build strength or build muscle

Starting point is 00:06:20 that you literally just try and burn. That's like telling somebody who's struggling with their finances and you go to them and you go, oh, you just got to make more and save more. Yeah. Oh, wow. You're saving it. You're brilliant.

Starting point is 00:06:32 Oh my God, you just solved all my problems. Like it's, yes, you got to burn more and you got to eat less. Okay, yeah, okay, duh. But it's way more complicated than that. But here's a deal with the metabolism part. For, I'll point to the same stuff, to one study, that I love pointing to because it was well made and it really highlights the ability of our metabolic rate

Starting point is 00:06:50 to adapt. And then we'll talk about why we have this incredible ability. There is a study I've quoted this many times. They did it on modern hunter-gatherers. These were, this is the hodse tribe of northern Tanzania. And they lived the way humans lived thousands of years ago. So they don't have electronics. They hunt and they gather. So when they hunt, you know, they'll, the wound and animal chase it down, wait till it gets exhausted, carry it back after

Starting point is 00:07:12 they, you know, finish the kill. They are far more active than the average person or the average western couch potato, okay. And scientists went down and they did with really good sophisticated testing. Okay. so this wasn't estimates. This was actually pretty good testing. They tested their metabolic rate and they were at first kind of like blown away because these hunter-gatherers really didn't burn much more. It was very similar to the average Western couch potato.

Starting point is 00:07:39 And so everybody's like, oh my God. It's strange, you think. When that your average person would think they're burning so many cows, those are so active. You do reference this study all the time. I don't know if I've ever asked you, what was the original hypothesis of that?

Starting point is 00:07:52 Do you know what did they go in? Like going in, right? Yeah, going in was the hypothesis like, oh, we're so inactive in Americans, what's go study this tribe that moves all the time? They're gonna be burning all these cowlars. They didn't, yes. So there's two things.

Starting point is 00:08:04 One is leading up to that. There were lots of studies to show that simply trying to burn more calories is a terrible, and that manually I should say, trying to move more. It doesn't prove your health. So that's, I want to say that first. So for anybody who's about to get all up in arms, just moving more as long as it's appropriate, it doesn't prove your health. However, it's a terrible weight loss strategy.

Starting point is 00:08:26 We've known this for a long time. There's lots and lots of studies on this that if you don't change your diet and you just go and try and move more, it's a very, it's a failing approach to weight loss. So we knew that. We also knew that it's probably likely that our bodies learned to burn less calories because as hunter-gatherers,

Starting point is 00:08:47 calories are actually quite hard to come by. We take this for granted in modern societies because calories, we've done such a good job, and this is just a pad on the back to modern humanity. We've solved some of the biggest problems that have played humanity for thousands and thousands of years. One of the biggest ones was energy was hard to come by. Like you go live in the wilderness and you don't have modern agriculture.

Starting point is 00:09:10 So the agricultural revolution doesn't exist. You don't have grocery stores and all that kind of stuff. Go try to find a thousand calories. One thousand calories. Go try to find it. First off, it ain't gonna happen with plants. You ain't gonna find fields of corn and wheat and fruits and vegetables.

Starting point is 00:09:26 If you find fruit, you're lucky if you find a few berries. If you find an apple, oh my God, praise God, because you got some food for today, but it ain't gonna happen for the rest of the month or whatever. And you'd have to kill an animal, which is calorie intensive, challenging, and dangerous. Okay, so we knew leading into that, that our bodies probably adapted pretty well

Starting point is 00:09:47 because calories are hard to come by. You know that show, what's that show alone? Yeah, oh I was gonna say naked and afraid, yeah. That one too. But you know, and alone, they actually send wilderness and survival experts out in that. They don't take average people to know they get really dark.

Starting point is 00:10:01 Oh yeah, that wouldn't last for a long time. And they actually send them out with like a couple choices of things that they could take. Oh yeah, they get the rest of the day. Oh yeah, that wouldn't last for a long time. And they actually send them out with like a couple choices of things that they could take. Oh yeah, they get like 10 things. They have like a bow or a knife and they've got like stuff to cook with. And the goal is to stay out there for like three months,

Starting point is 00:10:14 four months, five months. And that will leave your whole life out there. And they find it to be very challenging. Most of the people actually have to leave early because they injure themselves because they don't get enough food. So it's really hard. So these modern hunter gathers, they study them,

Starting point is 00:10:27 they said, oh my god, they don't burn, they burn like similar calories to like, you know, John who sits on his couch half the time and works at a desk. It's a read is. But it makes perfect sense because if our bodies didn't have that ability, we wouldn't have survived. There's no way calories are hard to come by. So our metabolism can adapt. Now, here's where, here's the rub. Here's no way, Cal are hard to come by. So our metabolism can adapt.

Starting point is 00:10:45 Now, here's where, here's the rub. Here's where you get the science people, or the should I say the people who love to use science and make themselves seem smart. And the fitness influencers are really big idiots. I'm talking to most of you out there. You're mostly stupid, you give out terrible information. And then you'll use something that science

Starting point is 00:11:03 has to make yourself sound smart. When, you know, those of us in the fitness space really know this stuff, know you're an idiot. What they'll do is they'll go, oh, you know what? A pound of muscle doesn't burn as many calories as they tell you. It burns like an extra 10 calories

Starting point is 00:11:16 because they have some study that show. First off, the metabolism is way more complex than that. It's not as easy as saying, one pound of muscle equals this many more calories. The truth is with the same lean body mass that you have now. So you take me, change nothing, I have a range of calories my body can burn. Okay. My body can decide either to become more or less efficient with calories. And it does this on a day-to-day basis. What controls us, what influences us? Sleep, stress, how I'm feeding myself,

Starting point is 00:11:49 the types of food I'm feeding myself. My hormone profile can definitely influence us. You could take a man or a woman, artificially change a hormone profile and manipulate their metabolism to start to look different or whatever. So, and then building muscle on top of that tends to push it, should I send me correct myself? The process of building muscle,

Starting point is 00:12:10 sending the signal to build muscle and feeding your body appropriately, pushes the scale to what's called less efficient calorie management. It's the type of environment that you're presenting on a daily basis. Completely, so then your body is like, I don't need to store as many calories.

Starting point is 00:12:24 Look, if you don't believe me, change nothing, lose sleep for a week. You know, get shitty sleep for a week. Watch what happens. Your body all of a sudden will start storing. Anybody who's trained enough people in their life, you know, and applied reverse dieting to somebody and has seen this firsthand. So it's always somebody who is some online fitness influencer or.

Starting point is 00:12:47 Trying to be a contrarian and like you said, get a tension or some other means to basically look like they know what they're talking about. I mean, there's a part of me that you know, I understand, I was this trainer, I didn't understand. I thought my clients were lying to me for the first five years. I really did. I know. I thought I was this trainer. I didn't understand. I thought my clients were lying to me You know the first five years. I really did. I know I thought I'm here I remember having clients sitting across from me that were really really overweight and then they would break down what they eat every day I'm like there's no fucking way. Yeah, you're lying to me. There's no way

Starting point is 00:13:18 You're eating that little and you're that overweight. This can't be possible But to your point the the body's an amazing piece of machinery. It will adapt to whatever it needs to survive. And if you, for a long period of time, give it very, very low calorie, it will slow, it'll become more efficient with those limited amount of calories that you give it. And so, yeah, if you've trained people for long enough,

Starting point is 00:13:39 and by the way, that's in combination with zero stimulus that tells your body you need strength and muscle. That's two things. Because you can try to reverse diet, but don't try to also simultaneously build muscle, in which case you'll just gain body fat. You'll get a little bit of a metabolism boost because when you boost calories or drop calories,

Starting point is 00:13:59 your metabolism does still adjust a little bit, but it's not significant. So if you start to slowly reverse your calories, but you don't simultaneously train appropriately to build muscle and you don't simultaneously feed yourself appropriately, in other words, high protein, adequate nutrients, then yeah, you're not gonna see that metabolism boosting effects.

Starting point is 00:14:17 But look, I've seen it firsthand. I will boost people's metabolism on average by 500 calories. But sometimes much more, I've seen people's go up 1 by 500 calories. But sometimes much more. I've seen people go up 1,000, 1,200 calories in a day. I've seen women go from hiring me eating 1,000 calories a day, doing crazy amounts of exercise. This argument only came after the study

Starting point is 00:14:36 that showed the difference between, when you isolated muscle and fat and what it requires to maintain, that is when this came out, when it's like, oh, 10 calories. So people were like, oh, it's insignificant. But to your point, what it takes to maintain, that is when this came out when it's like, oh, 10 calories, so people are like, oh, it's insignificant, but to your point, what it takes to build that muscle

Starting point is 00:14:49 and also maintain that muscle, you're not factoring that in. Because if you build, let's say you build 10 pounds of muscle and you stop lifting weights, you'll atrophy, it'll go away, you'll lose that. So you're not, you're also got to factor in, okay, for me to maintain 10 pounds of muscle, I also have to create or send that signal, which is also utilizing and burning more calories than

Starting point is 00:15:10 it just being in my body. So there's more to it. There's more to it than just that. And then if you know enough about what we do, you have to accept that we're still learning too. I mean, the metabolism is under the metabolism, the gut, the brain, the universe, or like, some of the most complex fucking things.

Starting point is 00:15:29 And to think that you're, to be so arrogant to be like, oh, we gotta figure it out, cause once that it comes out and shows you that, oh, isolated muscle burns only 10 more thousand. This is the part, this is the part that annoys me the most, is that what we do is we completely invalidate thousands and thousands of people's experiences. Because we say, no, that's not the case. It's like when a medication comes out and all these people say, hey, this is a side effect

Starting point is 00:15:56 that's happening. And then the medical community says, no, no, no, no, our studies don't show that. It's all in your head. Yeah. And then 10 years later, like, he gets syndrome's a myth. Yeah. Yeah, it's half in your head. And then 10 years later, like he got syndromes of myth. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, it's half of those things. And it's gonna, again, like this is where the scientific community, they'll have something

Starting point is 00:16:11 to kind of explain their way out of that. But it's like everybody that has experienced it knows for a sense, a real thing. So it's like, why are we contesting that? Look, look, this is how complex it is, okay. You can take, they've done this with animals. They'll take a rat, they'll take two rats or two mice. One that has a quote unquote faster metabolism,

Starting point is 00:16:34 one that has a quote unquote slower metabolism. They feed them the same, same activity, one's fatter than the other one, okay? And they'll do a fecal transplant from the thin mouse to the more overweight mouse, meaning they take the gut microbiome and temporarily place it into the other, of one mouse and put it into the other mouse.

Starting point is 00:16:54 And what happens, the obese mouse loses weight. From a fecal transplant, from the microbiome. Now is that the answer to everything? No, but I think that highlights. Yeah, what we don't know. Yeah, exactly that. It's like so much more complex. So this is all, is that the answer to everything? No, but I think that highlights. Yeah, what we don't know. Yeah, exactly that. It's like so much more complex. So this is all, look, you talk to coaches and trainers

Starting point is 00:17:10 have been doing this for 10 years plus. And they're gonna look at you in your face when you tell them, no, you can't speed up them tabs and where it's inconsequential, it's insignificant. They're gonna look at you like, what are you talking about? And then this is, also in my resume, they'll say there's no data to support what you're saying.

Starting point is 00:17:25 Okay, yeah, you're right. There still isn't in studies that really pinpoint what the hell's going on. Doesn't mean it ain't happening. I remember, you brought a bleaky gut syndrome. I remember, so I was lucky enough to, when I was just a pure meat head trainer, what I mean by that is, I knew, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:40 macros, calories, lifting weights, exercise. I didn't understand wellness, I didn't understand all this other stuff, but I was at least open-minded enough to know that there was market value for those types of things. So I had a studio where I would have these practitioners that did stuff that I saw value in the market. I didn't necessarily understand it myself,

Starting point is 00:17:58 but I said, hey, clients could see value in this. And I had people that practiced all these different methodologies. And I had a person in there that would do gut testing. She would do gut testing on people. Now consider this was, this was, let me think, 15 years ago, maybe more. So 15 years ago, if you said food intolerances or you said leaky gut syndrome, the medical community would laugh in your face.

Starting point is 00:18:23 100%. I actually know this because I had Dr. Clients, who when they would hear this person say, Leaky Guts and Drone, would look at me and roll their eyes and say, this is so stupid. This is, you know, a hocus-pocus crowd. Sudo science. Sudo science.

Starting point is 00:18:37 Well, I mean, lo and behold, years later, the scientific community says, oh, intestinal hyperpermeability, it's a real thing. They named it something red. Yeah, totally. So it's super annoying. And again, it invalidates people's experiences. So if you see a fitness influencer that says, no, you can't eat more calories and speed

Starting point is 00:18:58 up in metabolism or whatever, just understand this, understand they're just trying to get attention and they're probably idiots. If you listen to this show, do you think you're still following influencers? I hope not. Yeah. Hopefully you're not. Maybe if you're just tuning in, I guess, for the first time, right? I have something for you guys that I want to bring up that I thought was interesting.

Starting point is 00:19:16 Doug pulled this up. I don't know if you saw this. Did you guys see the Joe Rogan AI interviews Steve Jobs? I did and I hear a lot of people talk about. Oh, pull it up, Doug. Joe Rogan AI. So, okay. So, he interviewed an AI like a generation of his AI.

Starting point is 00:19:30 So, both Joe and our AI. Oh, both. Our AI. So, it's an artificially intelligent conversation that was, that was, they used algorithms on what Joe would probably ask with Stephen. Wait a minute, wait a minute. And they didn't even write the script.

Starting point is 00:19:45 So they collected all his podcasts and stuff. Yes, just all Steve, I'm sure the way the algorithms predicted, what would be asked, what would be said, and everything like that. Yes, I have that chance to sit down, like listen to the whole thing. But just think about that for a second. That's kind of wild that we could get to a place like that

Starting point is 00:20:02 where like, that make Joe replaceable. I mean, if it's pretty damn close and accurate, like, and who's this stuff? Well, this goes to like, who's at Bruce Willis or who's been the first actor to basically, so I heard that we talked about it, but then I heard it actually. I actually heard that.

Starting point is 00:20:22 Yeah, I heard he came out, so that was, well, I mean, you can have him. I heard exactly this. It's maybe his premature, but then I heard he came out. So that was maybe his premature, but like this is, right. I'm really conversing. Well, we speculate about this a while back. Yeah. I don't remember how long ago it was. I think, I think yes, he'll be replaceable, but not because there's going to be something

Starting point is 00:20:39 that looks and acts like him. That's perfect. I think AI will get to the point. I don't know when to where it's's so good, people will prefer to listen to that than to a person. Because it'll hack into how to communicate, what to say, what people like, what they don't like. The right answers, not making mistakes or gaps,

Starting point is 00:20:58 or annoying or irritating people, or how to polarize people. It'll figure that out to the point where you'll want to watch the AI interviewer or you'll want to watch the AI politician or the AI character over a real person, just because it, look, let me put it this way. It's years ago, decades ago, computers started defeating chess grandmasters. I know. To the point where, up until a certain point, computers couldn't beat chess grandmasters. And then they To the point where up until a certain point, you know, computers couldn't beat chess grandmasters.

Starting point is 00:21:27 And then they got to the point where they beat them. And now it's to the point where chess grandmasters don't even try. Like there's no way you'll beat an AI chess machine. There's no way. It's just, they're so good that they're not even, they don't even talk about competition. At some point, it's gonna get like that with other things.

Starting point is 00:21:44 Yeah, at some point, I mean, like, how long though? I feel like that's probably a ways off. And then, does, do you have, do you have the rights to your likeness? Like, what's, what's to stop somebody else for, like, what's to stop somebody? We have enough content out there between books and white papers and blogs and conversations that you could take. What is to stop someone from making their own version, just three other assholes to have in this conversation? And they interview people, right? But they use the algorithm that's based off

Starting point is 00:22:17 of how we communicate to build a mere show that doesn't take work and time, that could be done by AI. So you could potentially scale at a faster rate for way less money because you get right. They would win. I mean, that's like so, and how do you, how do we protect ourselves from that?

Starting point is 00:22:37 Like what are the, like, do we have rights around that? Like we don't, we have, well, they wouldn't be able to beat us because I think we would be able to, to sue for that. But they would be better than us. I what's the lawsuit though? Well, copy right and figure it out. Well, uh, likeness,

Starting point is 00:22:51 like sure there's gonna be ways that you can legally sort of wrap things like what's the stuff even like, like being smart about it and not naming it anything like us or using our nature. Well, that's the thing I'm saying. But literally ripping our brains, how we think, putting it into an algorithm and building it, I mean, it could be three chicks.

Starting point is 00:23:13 Doesn't matter, right? But the way we talk, we think, the way we communicate. Well, that would be the way around it, yeah. Yeah, I don't want to be the hot one. It's not like that. It's not like that happens. It's like a Justin. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 00:23:23 We should be the fuck, the one with the ass and a little beauty wave. I'm the sole tree one. Yeah, two. I'd be the sole tree for sure. I'm sure it will be, like, the super fake, I'll be fake, fake tit, so fake, fake, fake, fake, everything, fake old, old, straight old eyelashes.

Starting point is 00:23:38 I'd be the, I'd be the, you know what? Contacts with that are purple. You know when you watch movies and they always show the nerdy girl, they're really serious. I'm a popular with glass. He's the Elma, you Delma, you know like all like a weird freaky kinky shit Whoa All hippie though doesn't doesn't fucking put dealer in

Starting point is 00:23:55 For sure, no, you know what okay small precision people think it's really hot Yeah, you have a little chat room. Of his cut accurate, dude, his cut accurate, it's that hell of a good, small percentage of people. Yeah. I'm like, hey, don't make, don't, don't stoke my ego. No, you know what it is? I, here's what I think.

Starting point is 00:24:15 I think that they're not gonna copy anybody. They're gonna create new characters that are gonna be better. Well, they're gonna tap into, that's my point is that they, what is to stop them from utilizing all of our written and audio content to basically formulate a better version of it. Well, okay, they've already kind of tried this

Starting point is 00:24:42 with like movie scripts, right? You've seen that, and it's just a disaster. Yeah, I know. It's funky right now. It's hilariously bad. Okay. Um, but again, to like, if you, if you move this out, like say 10 to 20 years or so, um, I guarantee that it's going to be.

Starting point is 00:24:58 Well, not having some kind of, well, you also, also, they understand too that movies and art, or will be the, I think the last something like this as much I want to believe we're super artistic Yeah, but you don't think a conversation is an art. No, he's right. Justin's right 100% conversation is gonna be really hard It's so clunky right now with machines. Okay. No way. It's gonna well You guys like replace it. You were you see with the job. I mean, it's not that it's not that bad No, there's so there's two parts parts. One, when they did the first computers that beat chess grandmasters,

Starting point is 00:25:28 what they did is the computers learned from moves that actually human chess grandmasters would make, then it would make calculations based off of odds, and then that's how it would win. Today's computers that play chess don't do that. They actually get set traps. They get traps. They set traps. This is why there's that one chess don't do that. They actually get set traps. They set traps. They set traps.

Starting point is 00:25:46 They set traps. Yeah. This is why there's that one chess player that they think cheated. She's right, right. Because what they do to test to see if you cheated is they compare your moves to what an AI machine would make. And the best chess grandmaster, I think,

Starting point is 00:25:58 was 70%. Yes. The best judge, it's because they do like really risky things. Like, and you say, well, they do sacrifices that no human would ever do. Yeah, they would think and because he's going Like so the closest anyone's ever been to actually Bobby Fisher. Yes, Bobby Fisher's moves were 72 or 70% accurate to what the most sophisticated AI machine would have made and this guy

Starting point is 00:26:19 So anything leading is like a hundred percent well He's hired now. It's like not or not. It was like 90 something. Yeah, right. It was so high that it was like set off all these flags. Like there's no way. Nobody in history has ever been that close. But, and by the way, it still hasn't been, they haven't caught him. That's how they're proving that he did it.

Starting point is 00:26:38 They have not actually caught him and do it. Which, here's what I would argue. He's a young kid who has grew up playing that. So he's mapped sort of away. Hold on, let me put this in our talk for a second. Okay, so in the first place. Can I talk about this? No, no, no, no, no, you know why?

Starting point is 00:26:55 Cause I, Oh, my name's Adam. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, cause I listened to a podcast where they talked about all this. Adam. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I listened to a podcast where they talked about all this. Yeah. Now, I was trying to wrap my brain around it. It's like this.

Starting point is 00:27:11 It's like somebody whose max deadlift is three and a pounds, and then a year later, they're deadlifting a thousand pounds. We would all of us would know, and they already trained their ass off. So I don't know. I don't know. All of us would be like, okay, that's not possible. There's obviously something going on. That's the equivalent.

Starting point is 00:27:28 I mean comparing the physiological ability to get that smart in relation to building them. Yeah, I don't know if I take that analogy because I think that just world is like that. Well, yeah, I get what you're comparing, but I think if a kid has been playing against... Right, but he played before too. And he went from here to here and appeared at time

Starting point is 00:27:51 where they're like, okay, this is not even, this is not even humanly possible. Anyway, my point with all that is that, here's what I think. I think it's gonna be very interesting when AI machines get to the point where they're creative, they outcompete us in creativity, because already they're getting close to.

Starting point is 00:28:08 Where you can write a script, feed it to a AI machine, and it'll generate your movie for you. It'll generate the scene for you. Also with art too, you can describe based off of what type of, like say, there's a distinctive character, but you want him in a certain location. And then you basically just tell it to go through

Starting point is 00:28:32 the entire internet and find images and it like smashes them all together. And it creates like this image or painting based off of what you're typing in and is weird. So what's gonna happen when we get to that point, we create these really smart AI characters. And the AI characters come up with solutions for our big problems.

Starting point is 00:28:52 Our humans gonna accept the solutions. Like what if a AI machine comes out and says, well, here's a deal with climate change. Here's what we really need to do. We need to build nuclear reactors everywhere. And I'd be like, no, I don't agree with that. And I'd say, no, here's the data, here's what's gonna happen. Like, are we gonna accept the advice that they give us?

Starting point is 00:29:11 Or are we still gonna eventually? Are we more likely to listen to machines or humans? That's right. Because like, look how fallible our leaders are right now. Like, look how much like they've done. And in terms of like people, you know, losing faith in terms of like our, our people in positions of power versus like say, now machines come in and they have better answers. And do machines actually understand humanity?

Starting point is 00:29:37 There's that one question with self-driving cars, which is, you're in a car and it's driving you. And it has the option. It has to make a decision. It has to either run the dog over or hit like any other. No, it's gonna hit like four kids crossing the street. That's what I'm saying, yes. Or drives off the cliff and kills you. Right.

Starting point is 00:29:54 Does it calculate while there's four children, you're a 47 year old man, four children more valuable. Yeah. That's a lot to go through. You know what I'm saying? Or like that movie with Will Smith where all the robots are like to protect you all, we're gonna lock you in your room.

Starting point is 00:30:07 You're actually the problem. Yeah, and we're just gonna give you everything you need and we're gonna give you everything you need and we're gonna give you everything you need to wear. No, no, no, that's not how we wanna live, you know? So it's gonna be really interesting what that looks like. But as far as like, what are people gonna do? I mean, shit, we may get to a point where

Starting point is 00:30:21 we don't have to work anymore. I know, do you think we'll see that in our lifetime? Probably not dogs, but ours. What do you think? Do you think that was possible? I don't know, I'll protect it out of the hole. That's been a while since I did it, old joke. You're a good guy.

Starting point is 00:30:33 It does, it's gonna have a real lot of money. He's gonna keep on. We've all been together now for almost eight years. I predict, okay, here's a prediction for us that we always like to call stuff. By year 12, people will think Doug's the youngest to do. Yeah, that's already happening. Yes, that's the only option us, and we always like to call stuff. By year 12, people will think Doug's the youngest to do. Yeah, it's already happening.

Starting point is 00:30:46 Yes, that's the one. It's slowly happening like that. I got this clear when we first started. I was like, I felt like we looked the youngest, and then it's like, I'd love to see a simulation of that. Yeah, I think it's just like, EG and then Doug's not older. He's right now, he's sucking the youth out. You're gonna be like, we're all soon here,

Starting point is 00:31:01 be like, who's, we're just fun that young producer you guys can. They add our funerals. Doug's gonna give a speech and be like real soon here, be like, who's, we're just fun that young producer you guys. Yeah, at our funeral, Doug's gonna give a speech and be like, you know, these to joke about my age all the time. Fuck those guys, I'm really sad that I'm here and they're not, because they were younger than me, but you know, anyway. Anyway, you'll be excited. Do you think in our lifetime,

Starting point is 00:31:19 we're gonna get to that place where, you know, AI robots are handling a large portion of labor. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I was thinking, if we live, I mean, if we live another 40 years, that's four decades, things are accelerating so fast. Four decades today is like 200 years before. Yeah, I mean, we're using it for all kinds of predictive,

Starting point is 00:31:42 like in terms of crime, in terms of like preventing disasters, like we're relying a lot on a lot of these algorithms and things to kind of predict that for us. Yeah, what it was just inevitable. How unhappy, we're gonna be so unhappy. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. You're crazy to think that, right? You're right, we're gonna get everything that we think

Starting point is 00:31:58 we need and everything's gonna be a figure, can't figure out why the hell we're so upset and sad and anxious. Yeah, like what the hell's going on? Yeah, we have no purpose at some point. Yeah, could you, there's funny, I was watching a Rick and Morty episode like that where everything was done for,

Starting point is 00:32:11 oh, there were dinosaurs. So dinosaurs came back down to earth and apparently there's super hyper intelligent, super evolved beings and they just want to solve, we just want to solve your problems. And the humans are like, all right, cool. And then they solve everybody's problems and then they're all sitting around the kitchen table

Starting point is 00:32:23 and getting hammered and just like, ah, what do I do? Is that can only so much like painting I can do? Like I need to feel like I'm adding something to say. I mean, it's funny, but it's like that. You're the story you, I mean, we used to share it on the podcast all the time. It's from all the time.

Starting point is 00:32:37 I'm still traveling. You're Twilight Zone episode, I think, is like one of the most like epic, like, I mean, to have the foresight to make a show like that, like when was that show done? Like in, when's, to have the foresight to make a show like that, like, when was that show done? Like in, when's 1950s and 60s? Yeah, that's wild to be thinking really, really. Humans have understood this for a long time.

Starting point is 00:32:53 Religion has taught this for ancient practices have taught this for thousands of years. And data shows this. And it refers to be happy. We have to have struggle. We have to have challenge. So that's the, so, and we always try to get rid of struggle and challenge out of our lives,

Starting point is 00:33:06 thinking that's gonna make us feel better. Yeah, we can't even pick our own movies to watch now. Do you see the new feature on Netflix? This is just throw up. No, I mean, it's kind of cool, but it's just like, if you're too lazy to even scroll and find something now, now it recommends based off of your algorithm. So like, when you,

Starting point is 00:33:20 Is this a surprise me? Yes. Yeah, yeah, like randomly, we'll, we'll, you know, what is it say for you? I actually didn't even do it, because I knew what I wanted to watch. We should do that in comparison. Yeah. So the, so the, the one, the flaw in mine,

Starting point is 00:33:35 and maybe I don't know how you guys are at your house, but like could train an eye or not consistent with like, oh, I'm picking the movie, so I'm gonna go in my thing. Yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, so, like, you know, like, I mean, and we have the, the properties'm gonna go in my thing. So I ran it. Yeah, so ran it like, you know, like, I mean, and we have the properties that we have together.

Starting point is 00:33:47 Yeah, I'm like, what are you guys scary movies? I forgot to log out of it. Fucking Justin. We're like ancient time. You know, shit like that. Almost like. You know what, ancient aliens. Yeah, ancient aliens.

Starting point is 00:33:58 If it's aliens, scary and freaking conspiracy theories, I know Justin's been a trickie dude. It's like fucking, my Netflix is off, man. It's, you know, it helps me sleep. Hey, speaking of our property stuff, how's the one in Utah coming along? Oh my God, I just wanted to be done. I just wanted to be done.

Starting point is 00:34:17 We're, so we're a couple things. Well first you paint the context, what we're trying to do out there from here. Yeah. Oh, I think so. Most the audience knows. I mean, we're doing to do out there from. Yeah. Oh, I think not. Most the audience knows. If you don't, I mean, we're doing our first short term rental. So, and this is going to be like a, you know, luxury slash biohacking

Starting point is 00:34:33 slash experience, right? So it's going to have sauna, steam, infrared, jacuzzi, or infrared sauna, cold dip, cold dip, jve Lites, PRX set up, movie theaters, Jacuzzi outside, and then the last thing I'm actually dealing with today is I gotta get on with them. And so bad, I gotta practice not saying chili anymore.

Starting point is 00:34:58 They're asleep me as the name is new. So the sleep me mattress pad, so I'm getting them for all the bedrooms so you have those in there. Are you getting them dual? dual all of them. No, I'm only going to do the two. So we have two kings and a queen. I think I'm going to do the two kings. The dual. Well, we'll see because I have to negotiate this, right? So obviously I want the the the duels for all of them. If I can't, even though the queen, I'll probably do a single, but the at least the two kings, but those are I mean, those ones are expensive to have the dual ones.

Starting point is 00:35:27 So I know that if I hope that they'll hook that up, if they do, I will. Bottom for sure, every bed will have the control temperature. So the idea is you rent this property and you can work out, you can do sauna, you can do cold dip, you could have this sleep experience, red light therapy. Basically, you could go there and do all the stuff that we talk about. You know, I get this experience. I talked to, like, I hung out with my class night, he's

Starting point is 00:35:56 in town, right? So I was sharing with him this, this venture. And it was interesting. He actually, right, he got excited about like, do this is, he's, I think it's brilliant. And I'd be very interested to hear from him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'll be the first one to tell you something stupid. Well, that's my math used by the way. Yeah. So people know, oh, sorry, sorry. Um, but anyway, his, his suggestion was really in line with what you had said off air before when we were talking about it of like that we kind of we kind of do like these packages where it's like the three day, you know, detached streets or the seven day kickstart your wellness thing

Starting point is 00:36:33 or the 30 day change your life and kick off and like, and so there's like, we include work out. Yeah, we include like, and basically a protocol, you know, do the dip first, then do this, then do that, then go for a walk, then, and like literally map out for people and make like this whole experience around it. Now, I think, obviously, it'll be a little more work for us to do that, but I think he's right that that would be amazing for our audience. I think most people will really

Starting point is 00:36:57 enjoy that. But I don't also want to, like, I also want people to have that option of like, I don't want to, I just want to, you don't have to. Yeah, I I don't want to experience it for a minute. Because obviously that's how I want to use it. I don't want to leave work and like, do work stuff for me, you know what I'm saying? I'm gonna be like, maybe I'll jacuzzi every day and that's all, I watch movies, that's all do. Or maybe I am gonna go there and cold plunge and saw it and work out.

Starting point is 00:37:17 You want the flexibility? Yeah, I don't want to feel like, you know, I have to do this regimen. So I think having that as an option, and I told him the idea of like having, you know, this iPod, iPod, iPad, a tutorial like that you were like basically walking people through all the stuff and how to use it properly and what it's for. Well, think about like more and more people are needing breaks so they can go feel healthier.

Starting point is 00:37:41 You know what I mean? Like a break from life so I can go somewhere and improve my health, improve my sleep, make myself feel good, which people enjoy, people enjoy doing that, then I can go back to my regular life. If we can keep this thing really, if we can keep this thing filled up, we can be competitive with it, which is what I really want to do. I really want to be able to keep the occupancy year-round and actually be able to be competitive with just like a neighbor, which is, you know, like, why would you stay at the house next to ours for relatively the same price or close to, and we have all of this that you have access to.

Starting point is 00:38:22 I mean, you're talking about close to a quarter million dollars worth of stuff that will be in these houses. So, I think, and if you ever thought about trying any of those things, I think that there's going to be a huge pool. I hope, I mean, that's the plan for this. The plan is that, you know, and that will attract people even in, you know, the, quote, unquote, down months in these areas, right? So, obviously, during ski season in Park City, this thing is going to fly like crazy. It'll be booked. But then they have slow months when it's just, you know, it's beautiful out in Utah, but it's not, it's near a ski town. So there's not skiing going on. And so when it's slower, I'm hoping that that's, we're going to be able to keep these places. If we can prove this model, then this is going to be a direction that we're going to move it to. And what I was talking to Mike last night was if we could prove it, then I could see us partnering

Starting point is 00:39:09 up with like one or two of our friends, not necessarily because we need it, but we can go bigger and faster with partners like helping us finance it and move it quicker. So speaking of trying new things, I love it when I get my paradigm shifted a little bit or when I thought something about something and then I find data and experience something completely different. So let me paint the picture here. So I don't know what I did last not last week. I think it was I did some high polls and I decided to go relatively heavy for me. I say heavy because I don't do this exercise regularly. So I went up to like 225 and I did a few reps. You're in the high-pitched?

Starting point is 00:39:51 Yeah, that's it. And I didn't know it's snatch grip. And then I kind of felt on my right wrist right here in the top like a little bit of a strain, but I felt that before and it wasn't a big deal. So I'm like, okay, whatever. Anyway, yesterday I did my normal workout and I still kind of felt it a little bit.

Starting point is 00:40:08 I was like, oh, that's kind of whatever. Go to bed and it woke me up in the middle of my throbbing, which never happens. It's like tons and tons of pain. Now, so now that I've painted the context, okay. So CBD or cannabinoids have this kind of anti-pain anti-inflammatory effect. And I've seen products before with CBD that you,

Starting point is 00:40:27 or cannabinoids that you rub onto your skin for the pain. And I've always thought that was stupid. I'm like, it's systemic. Like, how can rubbing it on a specific area? It's not even to go deep enough. Like, how's that gonna work or whatever? And one of our partners, Ned, has a topical relief cream. And I never talked about it because I never tried it because I was always skeptical about

Starting point is 00:40:48 how that would work. But anyway, I'm in pain, I'm desperate. Like what the hell? So I rub it on and I feel a difference. And I'm like, is this placebo? Like what's going on? Am I really noticing different? Looked up some data and some studies.

Starting point is 00:41:02 I didn't know this is bad on me. They definitely have studied topical cannabinoid treatments and they definitely have shown to be efficacious in many cases. So, don't know what's happening. Okay, so you're not going to be able to maybe answer what I'm going to say. So when I was in the, when we were, when I had the clubs and we had the cannabis clubs, they had a lot of versions of this. And I did think they were pretty much bullshit.

Starting point is 00:41:28 I actually passed on a lot of vendors, and I had them all around my house all the time, and I'd be messing with them, and I really didn't, but they had alcohol-based ones, like there were a lot of different ones that I had tried out. And I was never sold on it, and what I thought was the same thing,

Starting point is 00:41:44 is there's no way this is penetrating all the way into my like my bone. Right. And then actually giving me relief there. I thought, oh, you know, it's probably happening. This is like icy hot where it's like I feel something there. And so my brain says relax or calm down. Something more related. That's really not doing any well.

Starting point is 00:42:00 Well, I think that's exactly what's happening. But what's so to put it differently, the way you perceive pain is a big part of pain. Big, big part of pain. So pain is very complicated. Talk to any doctor who treats people for pain. It's one of the most complex things because you have the physiological thing

Starting point is 00:42:19 that's happening that they can kind of measure. Like, okay, we could see what's happening here. We see with the chemicals that are being released. We know what happens in the brain, but then there's this perception or this experience of pain. So this is why somebody's been working out for a long time will experience the pain of exercise differently

Starting point is 00:42:36 than somebody who's a beginner. They have the same physiological thing that's happening. In fact, they have the same, if not more pain, than a beginner, but they don't perceive it as uncomfortable because they've built this different relationship. This is why some people, they think they're more or less, you have people like, oh, I'm more sensitive to pain or less sensitive to pain or certain types of pain. For example, men and women experience pain differently.

Starting point is 00:43:00 There's been studies done on this. I think what's happening is something to do with the cannabinoids, the local cannabinoids in the skin that are changing the way that your brain receives the pain signal. So very similar to like an icy hot, correct experience. Correct. So then if that's their case, why not combine like the full spectrum hemp with like an icy?

Starting point is 00:43:22 Absolutely, because when you take it internally, you get this systemic anti-inflammatory effect that we can measure physiologically. But then you also add this topical, within five to 10 minutes, you're feeling this pain relief. Interesting. Yeah, so I don't know if the topical speeds up healing

Starting point is 00:43:38 aside from maybe you move differently because you're not as limited. And so that increased motion might help speed up recovery or whatever we could speculate. But you definitely experienced less pain. So it's weird, I rubbed it on. So most likely that's what's going on here. It's not, that's my fear of these healing properties

Starting point is 00:43:53 that are going to heal it. It's what it is is going to dull the pain. And so to give you temporary relief in combination with taking something else, or rehabbing. Now, could it speed up healing in this sense? Like, I need to do mobility on my hip, but my hip is stiff and sore,

Starting point is 00:44:10 and it's really hard to get through certain movements. Here, let me rub this relief, you know, this CBD relief cream on it. Now I can do the movements that I know we're gonna help me out. So that, in that case, it could help. It's so interesting with pain like that, like interrupting the signal,

Starting point is 00:44:24 because even with like tape, I found that like, in that case, it could help a lot. It's so interesting with pain like that, like interrupting the signal, because even with like tape, I found that in certain instances, that does help. And it's like, if I could just kind of take a little bit of the stress of the force, you know, away from that initial response from that muscle, it's like, it does provide enough to be able to now work through those movements and then start the recovery process. You're 100% right.

Starting point is 00:44:48 So you're talking about the, what do they call it, physio tape? Yeah, I've been using it with athletes. Yeah, there's legit taping where like my wrist hurts and I tap it to the point where it's stiff. So now I've got like a, almost like a support around my wrist, wrist, but that's not how physio tape works. They'll actually see people have taped down their back

Starting point is 00:45:02 on the sides of their shoulders. So it's not supportive, but what it does is it gives an outside signal. So it redirects it. Correct. So it gives an outside signal that gets your body to move a little bit differently, which then gets you to maybe experience less pain. Plus that could also interrupt. Kind of like acupuncture.

Starting point is 00:45:20 People want to know, how does acupuncture work? Well, these little needles are changing the way you experience pain through the, maybe the signalling process, right? Totally off topic, but did you guys see the news with Kanye? Yeah. He's gonna buy parlor. Oh, parlor? So, okay, so what do you think about that?

Starting point is 00:45:38 I think that's really interesting. So he came out and said because Instagram and Twitter like, you know, regulated him or put him in Instagram jail for whatever time, like that was what, that's when you know you're so rich, you get mad at like this, you get mad at social media. My own social media. You'll be able to go buy a competitor just because I can.

Starting point is 00:45:55 So supposedly that's why he's making the move. Now, I'm less excited about that than Elon and Twitter, no offense to ye, but, you know, if it was, it almost sounded like evil. If he was, I mean, if he was buying Nike, I'd be excited. If he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he's, if he, fashion and that direction. So he's buying a company like that. I'd be, okay, this is gonna be interesting. Let's see what he does with it. Like that's interesting to me.

Starting point is 00:46:29 Like his own line or something like that with clothing or something to do with records and music, like that's interesting. But social media, I mean, to me, like, excited about Elon is, you know, Elon is such a brilliant business builder that him going and buying that is exciting. Like, oh, what's he gonna do? Well, don't not Kanye.

Starting point is 00:46:47 Kanye's built some crazy businesses. He has, but mostly related what I just said, right? Yeah. Well, yes, yes. You know what this does for me is it makes me excited about the future of social media. It's finally becoming competitive in a better way. Right now it seems like it hasn't happened yet. So that's still a big, that in a better way. Right now it seems like it's a different. It hasn't happened yet, so that's still a big,

Starting point is 00:47:05 that's a big maybe. It won't happen because wasn't Trump starting his own so social. Yeah, like did that just go put it to centigrade? Or what? I don't know. It's truth. Oh, truth, that is so.

Starting point is 00:47:16 It's a Trump social. Yeah, truth. I wouldn't be surprised. Honestly, he wanted a game of that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Do you guys think that Kanye's crazy?

Starting point is 00:47:26 Do you think he's actually crazy? No, I don't. I mean, you know, any like super eccentric artist, you know, you could label as crazy, right? Like he's like way out there in terms of like his ideas. You know what? So here's what you, I agree. I think, I don't agree with everything he says.

Starting point is 00:47:42 So I want to say that. Yeah. I think, just like anybody else. but I don't think he's crazy. I think they're painting him as crazy. Of course they are. Because some of the stuff he says is so controversial. Yeah. And that's the game.

Starting point is 00:47:53 The game is, if they don't like what you say, they'll either make you a white supremacist or they'll say your, I don't know, a massacre. He makes you think. Yeah. So therefore, and if it's a way that you don't want to think And then you want to label him as is crazy and and you know like basically devalue anything has to say Yeah, I mean he says some stuff again that I don't disagree with but I'm not saying I'm I don't mean that's what you know, that's what they know I think what's what's happening is both You know left and right have been I mean even I was listening to I mean I can't believe that he's, what I, he's brilliant when it comes to, you know, he's lyrically one of the

Starting point is 00:48:31 most talented rappers that we've ever seen. And so he can, he can talk about really nuanced, cool things on a song and I think he's great at that. I think what has happened is he's been, you know, drug into this political sphere and really has no business in there. I really don't think that, I mean, he's not meant to be a politician and you have both, right, you know, what's his name, Tucker Carlson, Hadamon, and I, and they literally take him and they interview him for, you know, an hour or whatever it is. And then they, they, they chop it up to fit their narrative

Starting point is 00:49:05 to, you know what I'm saying? It's best they possibly can. Because if you let it listen, probably the whole thing free, you'd be like, this is awful or all over the place. Like when he had the run with Joe Rogan, I don't know if you guys listen to Joe Rogan one, but it was just like,

Starting point is 00:49:16 you know, there's like snip bits of like, oh yeah, I grew a doubt or that makes sense, but then he goes, with the moments. You know what he sounded like? He sounded to me like someone, you ever know, I mean, lots of people like this, where they get nervous and when they get nervous and anxious,

Starting point is 00:49:29 they just go, go, go, go and talk, talk, talk. That's what it sounded like. Yes, I agree. That's why he has no business getting into like the political conversations because it's, and it's not that I don't agree with some of the things and thoughts that he has. Like I do, there's stuff that he says,

Starting point is 00:49:42 I'm like, yeah, you know, I don't totally disagree with that. Let me ask you guys this, would you rather have somebody be brutally honest, but you don't like what they have to say half the time? Or have somebody lie sweetly to you and make you a fantastic, really brutally honest? Isn't it, you know what's funny? Most people want the other.

Starting point is 00:49:58 Most people say what we're saying, but most people actually don't want that. What they would prefer is to be lied to, you want to be sued, then the media proves it. Popular media proves it. People don't want to be told, they don't want people to say stuff that they don't agree with.

Starting point is 00:50:12 Well, I think that's a lot. I think it's a lot of different things. I think people get on their ideology, and then they don't want that disruptive. But I still think that generally speaking, people would rather have the brutal truth than to be a lot of... Those are unpopular people, bro.

Starting point is 00:50:29 People who are super honest, those are the people that a lot of people, oh god, that guy over there, oh, that girl over there, or you know. If they don't like it, they'll try and find somebody's argument that will devalue that brutal honest truth, right? So it's like, oh, well, they're logically creating an argument to counter that something to go in this direction. Yeah, I mean, I think on the surface, logically, yeah, we would prefer somebody to be honest

Starting point is 00:50:53 so we know what we're dealing with. But in action, no, we don't like that. People want to, they want to be told sweet lies. People want their bias confirmed. Totally. Yes, you know what I'm saying? So that is true. But I think, again, general speaking, generally speaking, I think that if someone's being, uh, you know, spoken to that they would prefer the radical honesty, even if it hurts or that's what they say,

Starting point is 00:51:16 bro. But think about it. Like somebody who wants to get in shape. What would they rather here? Hey, man, it's mostly your fault. Or would they rather hear me say, it's not your fault at all, it's everybody else's fault. It's your genetics, here's a pill, take this, this will solve it for you. Like what would be easier to solve? Do you personal responsibility? Nobody wants to hear it. No, it's the truth.

Starting point is 00:51:35 Everybody's like, I love honesty. No, you don't. You want people to make you feel good with their lies. That's the truth. So somebody like Kanye, who I don't think the guy lies at all, to his fault. I think he says everything that's on his mind, which is why he gets on a lot of people's nerves

Starting point is 00:51:50 and why people call him crazy and stuff. I think he's telling exactly what he feels. I don't think he knows how to tell people comfortable lies to look what they destroy him. They think he might. He might have been a better president than Trump or Biden, that's for sure. Oh my God. I don't want to cut it I mean I don't either but I mean like

Starting point is 00:52:09 come on really I don't know I don't know if we I don't know if we be going to war right now I don't know if we would have been so divided like we were with Trump like I mean it would have to do my shit out of everybody oh my god no I think so I think you feel that way now because of how the right the right is using him now they're totally using him. Yeah, you know, I'm saying so he's he's turned into a political pawn now But I think if you actually just kind of left the guy alone and let him have his crazy ideas and stuff like that We would you know it wouldn't be that well the biggest bad as it is right now The left was the left you know why the left the left hates him because he doesn't follow their narrative and he's black. That's a fact.

Starting point is 00:52:46 Because he's black, he says certain things and they can't necessarily call him, they use their favorite weapon, which is your racist. The right likes him, because he says some stuff that they like. And also because if him and canisones were white, there's no way they're getting away with the t-shirt that they were wearing.

Starting point is 00:52:59 That's right. They have. You get crucified for that. That's right. Although canisones is on a different level. She says a lot of stuff that pisses people off too, but she's really sharp with how some of this, whether you agree with her or not,

Starting point is 00:53:12 you don't wanna tangle with her on a stage in debate. She's really... I think the part that I think that is unfortunate for Kanye is I don't, I think he's been smelling his own farts for so long that he doesn't realize how much he's being used. Like that, I think he's been smelling his own farts for so long that he doesn't realize how much he's being used. Like that, it's, that's the part that's sad.

Starting point is 00:53:29 Like, you know, yeah, there's things that maybe I agree and disagree with him that's beside the point with the reality that everybody on never side is like, let's use this guy totally. I mean, that's, and I think that's, and that's what's sad about the right and the left. I think they see upon like that. And they're like, this dude has so much influence. Let's use them. And it's unfortunate.

Starting point is 00:53:50 And unfortunately, it's making him look crazy, bad, all these things, and he's gonna get all this hate. And it's like, and I think he thinks he's making this like huge impact or has potential to even become the president, right? So that's the crazy part for sure. Which I think you have to, if you're that level of an artist and billionaire, you have to have some level of narcissism and belief in yourself.

Starting point is 00:54:09 So it isn't that far fetched for him. Well, that's a fact. I think that he is that way. That's a fruit at self when he got like millions of people buying. Yeah, he's record. Well, that's a psychological fact. People who speak in front of crowds, leaders,

Starting point is 00:54:21 entrepreneurs have a higher level of narcissism than people that don't, because that's scary shit. And so, in order for you to do scary shit, you have to kind of think you can do what other people can't do. So, and we know this, remember we talked to the psychology expert, and she, you know, she rated us and whatever. And she said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no's unhealthy narcissism, but there's a range of narcissism that's within health and higher levels of it are kind of required.

Starting point is 00:54:48 Both narcissism and ego have got a bad rap and they both are necessary for massive success. You've got to have an ego, you've got to have some level of narcissism to be... Otherwise, you're like, who am I to go up there? You don't tell people you've got to have that. And there's a healthy dose of it, and then there's not. It's got a bad rap, this idea that, I mean, I just got in this debate

Starting point is 00:55:11 with my brother-in-law talking about a kid who's always got this ego, so why does everyone just think, because you have an ego, it's bad. Like everybody has one, you can have a healthy one, you can have a strong ego and confident in yourself and belief, self-belief, and you have to have a little bit of narcissism to believe that you can beat the odds. So, I mean, there's...

Starting point is 00:55:30 Who the hell would start a business? Nobody would, if you didn't have that. No, look at the odds. If you just did the numbers, you'd be like, Pfft! This is not a good thing. AI would say, don't do it. Yeah, everybody would say don't do it.

Starting point is 00:55:40 This is a lose. I'm a lose, 100%. Right, right. Anyway, speaking of narcissism, so we have you're the master of transition. I love it. Yeah. No, we got another live event. The whole COVID string. Another, this is the first, no, almost three years and the first time that we're having it here. We're going to have it here at mine pump media headquarters. At the headquarters with the studio and our gem

Starting point is 00:56:06 We're filming all that stuff and I am Excited to meet people live again and real life people real people. You know why I was who's I talking to you about this? Oh Lewis house. I was talking to Lewis house about this and he said do live events like are they profitable? Name droppers. Yeah, what's the deal and oh god? And he said, do you live events like, are they profitable? It's a name drop. What's the deal?

Starting point is 00:56:23 And oh God. Hang it out with my friends. Yeah, just, you know, actually, I don't know. No, and he's like, do they, are they really, promise it? No, they're not super profitable, I said, but the value. They're not profitable.

Starting point is 00:56:37 They're not profitable. I think we had one that we actually didn't lose money. I know. And I said, the reality is, the reason why we do it is it keeps us like grounded because, you know, when I used to train reality is the reason why we do it is it keeps us grounded because when I used to train people, one thing I like about it was it kept my finger on the pulse of what's going on and how to communicate certain things, what works, what doesn't work. What I don't like about what we do here is I'm talking to out to the camera, to the

Starting point is 00:57:02 microphone, and I don't necessarily see on a day to day basis how it's really impacting people, what's working and what's not working. And so I feel like I could float off the ground a little bit and lose that grounded, you know, kind of what makes us effective. So when we meet people, we hear experiences and we talk to them when we say,

Starting point is 00:57:20 it really drives us differently. So that's why we're doing this. And I'm excited, because we have another year. I'm here for sure. I love these live events. I've always had to. It that's why we're doing this. Well, this is an exciting, we have a lot of fun here. For sure, I love these live events. I've always had to. It's great to meet people in person. It's just a totally different experience. Well, and we are doing a VIP experience

Starting point is 00:57:34 like we never have before. I mean, that's going to be, first of all, we have a guest. We'll have Max there. So the audience will be here. Yeah, get to hang out with Max. If you're one of the 10 people, like get the VIP experience, you get three private experiences with us and Max, which I think is really cool. The one you can see the live recording, then you get to go to the

Starting point is 00:57:56 Christmas party, Christmas party with all of us, and then the fireside chat. So to do these three cool kind of intimate things, I mean, coming into our personal company party and letting outside people do that, that's enough, we've never done that. The fireside chat came from what Sal and I did out when NCI, we had such a huge turnout from that, everybody loved that experience. So building that into this will be cool.

Starting point is 00:58:18 That will probably be, if you're listening to this right now, that will probably be close to selling out or already sold out. So it's got to be, if you're interested in that, where they go for this? Do we know what the site is to get signed up? Yeah, it's mindpumplive.com. That's it. Mindpumplive.com.

Starting point is 00:58:33 And you get set up and then we can meet you and hang out. It'll be a good time. Look, high quality ingredients, convenience, great tasting, organifies superfood blends, make it easy and enjoyable to add more variety and nutrition to your day. Organify has great products. One of my favorites is their green juice, great way to start the day, but they have many, many other products.

Starting point is 00:58:53 Go check them out. Head over to organify.com, that's ORGA and IFI.com, forward slash mine pump, then use the code Mind Pump for 20% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Gage from Oregon. Gage, what's happening? How can we help you? All right, guys, so my fitness journey started about 2016.

Starting point is 00:59:15 I was 260 pounds, and then I kind of needed to lose some weight because I'm 5'10". And I did it the wrong way. I kind of starved myself and got all the way down to about 165 pounds. And yeah, wasn't too good. And I got back into lifting weights about 18 months after that.

Starting point is 00:59:40 And I'm currently doing maps. I think it's power lift, but I just finished maps performance. And I'm kind of looking, I think it's PowerLift, but I just finished Maps performance. And I'm kinda looking at it a direction ago. I'm currently eating about 3500 calories anywhere from 35 to 300 calories a day. And I kinda plateaued. I'm wondering which way I should go.

Starting point is 01:00:00 Okay, so there's so many different factors that could be affecting a plateau in progress. So sleep is one of them. So how is your sleep? Is it consistent? Is it good? Are you getting eight hours a night? Yes, sir. So I usually work out at about 4.45. So I go to bed around 8.30. Try and get it as many as much sleep as I can. Okay, so sleep would be one, sounds like that's good. Then there's life stressors, there's also protein intake, you could be 3500 calories, not enough protein. And then lastly, I think, you know, you might need

Starting point is 01:00:36 to change up the workout programming a little bit. Oftentimes, yeah, you know, sometimes you'll progress only for so long and then you really need to change up the workout programming Now before you did power lift what kind of program did you do? Performance master form it and then before that And about it and about I'm gonna have you do map symmetry I think map yeah map symmetry is different. It's very different lots of unilateral work And it may expose some of the reasons why some of your lifts aren't going up.

Starting point is 01:01:08 Your bilateral lifts aren't going up. Like in your question, it says, your bench press. You also mentioned in here that you feel like you're just gaining too much body fat. Yeah. Yeah, I don't feel comfortable in my own skin. I'm being honest. Yeah. Well, you could definitely drop the calories.

Starting point is 01:01:24 I'd bring them down by maybe 300 or so. So, you know, maybe to 3,100, follow Map Symmetry and then kind of see what happens, see how it feels. But sometimes that's all it takes, right? Because if you look at everything down the list and everything else looks good, then just the change in programming. Sometimes you need to make a really big change in programming, you know, like a different style of training. And map symmetry is very different. It's, you know, there's a short phase of isometrics and then lots of unilateral work. And then it finishes up with kind of this five by five

Starting point is 01:01:53 strength phase, in which case you'll probably see some strength gains there. I feel like I want to dive in a little bit with your relationship with food. I know I know very little about you right now, but if you are a client of mine, I'd want to ask more questions around the reason why you did a dramatic cut like that, where you just basically you starved your body for, it sounds like well, almost a year or whatever it was to drop almost a hundred pounds.

Starting point is 01:02:21 Well, sorry. No, no, go ahead, tell me. So I was a senior in high school at the time and I was going to college and well, I think I wanted to get a girlfriend. Girls make us do shit, don't get it? And so you cut calories really, really low for an extended period of time, lost 100 pounds. And then since then, I've been obviously introducing more calories, because 3400 calories is a decent place to be at.

Starting point is 01:02:51 But what I'd be worried about is that you were so used to being low calorie for so long that just simply being in a little bit of a surplus and having a little bit of water weight the next day or being filled up with carbs gives you this feeling of, oh my God, I'm getting fat and I'm so afraid to go back to that 260 pound guy and so then you go back the other direction and you cut calories and you go do this up back and forth thing when you just started to probably fuel your fuel your body good to

Starting point is 01:03:16 support something like maps power lift to get stronger to build more muscle but then the psychological part starts fucking with you because you're like oh my god I don't want to get fat again so i gotta reduce calories again so you're not really actually in this this consistent surplus to build strength so i i would i would want to know more around that and does that speak to you at all and what do you have to say to that yeah i think you probably right i do have a bad relationship with food considering you know i start myself for however long 18 months bad relationship with food considering, I start myself for however long, 18 months, and just trying to get that body fat off. But yeah, I probably need to do some reflection on that. Where are you at right now, weight wise?

Starting point is 01:03:55 Currently, like, 190, 195, so it's been coming back on. I'll add you, I think. And 510? Yes, sir. That's not a good day. That's not bad. I mean, if you do cut your calories, a small cut would be fine. Yeah, that's not a good day. That's not bad. I mean, if you do cut your calories, a small cut would be fine.

Starting point is 01:04:08 You know, 2,300 calories would be OK, because you're already at 3,400 calories. But a change in workout programming I think will make a big difference for you. OK. Sounds good symmetry. I'll look into it. No, no, no, we're going to send it to you.

Starting point is 01:04:23 OK. Yeah, you're talking to us. Yeah, we're giving, we're going to give it to you for free. It's like Santa Claus. Yeah, everybody else you got to buy it But you get it for free gauge. Yeah, did you get a girlfriend by the way that it worked? Did you get a girlfriend? I'm married Hey, it worked. Well, you know you skipped a step I also just wrote quick so I have two jobs that work on a farm and then I also work for a commercial spring applicator. So I'm always outdoors working with my hands, moving them around a bunch. Maybe I'm doing too much volume because that possibly be a part of it.

Starting point is 01:04:57 Oh man, I mean maybe how long have you been doing that for? Five years. Yeah, you know, so here's the interesting thing about people who work in manual type labor, work with physical jobs. After a certain amount of years, the body adapts pretty well. I mean, I come from a family of blue-collar workers and it always shocks me at their body's ability to just handle workload. So it's usually after five to 10 years where it's not, I mean, it's still somewhat of a stress just because you're moving and it's work, but it's more like a normal stress, you know, for that person.

Starting point is 01:05:35 Like somebody is sitting at a desk and getting stressed out at work versus just, it's being a lot of like, do you, does your job make you sore? Do you get sore from your job anymore? No, sir. Yeah, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Yeah, honestly. It's being a lot of like, do you, does your job make you sore? Do you get sore from your job anymore? No sir. Yeah, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Yeah, honestly, I feel like Adam was in the right direction there. I just know in a lot of athletes,

Starting point is 01:05:53 I've trained before they've been on a cut for a very long period of time trying to manage their weight and it just was not contributing to their performance at all. So being well fed is definitely a part of that process to get the kind of gains and progress forward like I think you're looking for. So I think looking into that and messing around maybe with some mini-bulks, mini-cuts and kind of making sure that your fed through part of the training process is going to contribute a lot. It sounds counterintuitive, but I'm with Justin, and I know Sal was talking to you about doing a

Starting point is 01:06:30 little bit of a cut, but I would, I'm speculating that you probably haven't been on like a bulk since you did this massive cut, and I would imagine that anytime you creep up on calories, you probably psychologically fuck yourself and go back to the other direction. And so your body might just do really well, being fed a little bit more calories, and go back to the other direction and so your body might just do really well being fed a little bit more Calories and just trying to get fucking strong for a little bit and have have you ran a bolt? What was the last time you actually ran a bulk? I don't think I ever actually have yeah, there you go I mean I and again it's gonna be the psychological part if it would be add a little bit of calories

Starting point is 01:07:01 it's going to be the psychological part. If it would be add a little bit of calories, try and get strong in the gym, and that's your main thing, your focus on don't sweat, a couple pounds here and there. If you're getting stronger in the gym and you're feeling good, that would be where I'd try and focus.

Starting point is 01:07:15 Build that muscle, man. You know, Gage, how do you know you're consuming 3400 calories a day, by the way, do you track? Yes, sir, I do. I use the Luzit Bat Little App use, lose it, that little app. Okay, well that's good. By the way, 3,400 calories is not bad for a guy your size.

Starting point is 01:07:30 That's not a bad, yeah, that's actually pretty good. So, I mean, you keep even, if you're scared of adding calories, you can even just keep them where they're at and follow map symmetry and then, you know, make sure you feed your body appropriately as you start to get stronger. Okay. So, should I run the cut during symmetry? You know, I'm you feed your body appropriately as you start to get stronger. Yeah. So should I run the cut during symmetry? You know, I'm gonna say this.

Starting point is 01:07:49 I'm gonna say, why don't you keep your calories where they're at at first and see how you feel? Because I do agree, a cut, a small cut would be fine, but I wouldn't do it for too long, you know, like a few weeks and then go back to maintenance or back to a little bit of above. I mean, your body weight and your height, I think you're fine. And your calories are high enough to where a cut,

Starting point is 01:08:09 it's not making me freak out. Like, if you had 2400 calories, 2000 calories, I wouldn't want you to go on a cut. But 3,400, you have some room to play. So it's okay to go on a little bit of a cut, but it's also okay to stay at maintenance and then follow a new program because that'll fuel the strength that you're looking for.

Starting point is 01:08:23 Gage, one last question before we hang up and I talk about you. Your steps, have you ever tracked them in the day? Yes, sir, it's usually about 15,000, and you were from 15 to 17,000? Yeah, very, very active. He's moving a lot, bro. You want 100% yourself.

Starting point is 01:08:39 Yeah, you could 100% handle a bulk right now. Yeah, that's, I would push that way. I would push you in the bulk direction. And like 3600 calories on my face. Yeah, maybe even 38. Yeah, even 38 dude, 38 and trying to get strong. I mean, I, yeah, I really think you're, you're not, let's put this way, you're adding to going to 3800 calories,

Starting point is 01:08:58 you are not gonna be putting pounds of fat on every single week. I promise you that. I promise you that. That's right. But, but you will, you're increasing calories, most likely some carbohydrates, might be thirsty, you might hold a little bit of water weight here and there. Don't let that fuck with you.

Starting point is 01:09:13 Focus on the strength and the gym. Get strong at the lifts that you're whatever program you're falling. Get strong and just hang tight for, give me a month, give me a month of training like that and then you can call us back and we can talk about where we are. Actually, you know what? Let's do this. Doug put them in the forum. You have Facebook? No, you don't got Facebook out in that corner. Yeah, just like that. Now I like that. I tell you what, reach back, reach back to us then in a month. Send an email to us. Yeah, send an email to Jerry again. Just let her let her know that we asked you to reach back out in a month and let us know how you're doing

Starting point is 01:09:47 And then we'll talk again. I just I just think if you trust the process a little bit here, it'll serve you well Thanks, Gage You got it, man. Yeah, that's you know two things one. I mean good very good point you made there Adam Just kind of you know talking about the relationship of food and then two with you know that they're Adam just kind of, you know, talking about the relationship of food. And then two, with, you know, that being physically active the way he is after a while, it really is remarkable how the body adapts to that kind of work on his standards. Yeah. So I mean, he is moving a lot, which is good for his health. But at some point, it's not like you're burning shit tons of calories like you were when

Starting point is 01:10:19 you first started. And so I want to say that to some people, because I think some people might think, he's not, but I wouldn't have given that advice if he told me he's two to four thousand steps a day. Right, right. Because that's a pretty high calories for somebody who's doing only two to four thousand steps a day. Uh, and yeah, it makes a difference. But yeah, 15,000s no joke. He's moving all day. I mean, that's, that's a train. That was like being a full-time trainer type movement for me was 15,000 steps a day. So he's an active dude. And you're right, your body adapts to, he might have been burdened 5,000 calories when he first got the job there,

Starting point is 01:10:49 but then he's now adapted to this. But I definitely think that psychologically this person who's lost a hundred pounds, right, driven by, they're going to be fearful of every pound. Very fearful. And I bet what happens is you hear the show or it's well, I'm gonna increase my calories a little bit. The next day you wake up and you feel thicker, the scale goes up. Oh my God, go back the other way. So because he said he weighs 3000 to 3,400.

Starting point is 01:11:13 I bet I then he tries to creep up to 34. He freaks out, goes back down the, and then he's wondering why he's plateaued to the gym while he's not feeling his body, he's growing build. Next caller is Jake from Minnesota. Jake, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? What's up man? Alright, so a little background on my question. I'm 27 years old and I have been lifting

Starting point is 01:11:34 for about a decade. Kind of on and off in two to three years stretches and each time I've kind of taken a break from lifting, it's been because I have a really hard time gaining any significant strength or size. I'm about as strong now as I was when I started lifting when I was 17 years old and I feel like I'm doing most things right. So, you know, I'm tracking my calories and protein intake. I'm sleeping, seven, eight hours a night. I've tried lots of different kind of methods for working out. So, I've done strength-focused, kind of five by five plans. I've done bodybuilding, focused plans. I've tried a bunch of different kind of splits, still like push pull legs, and right now I'm doing a full body three days a week. But all of it kind of yields the same results, which is not very much.

Starting point is 01:12:34 So just looking for your guys' opinions or suggestions and what I can do to kind of get over this hurdle. Did I hear that correctly? Did you say that you've been lifting for a decade and you're the same strength as you were back when you were 17 when you first started? Yeah, roughly. So probably, you know, a year into lifting, I'm about the same. So, you know, I started when I was 17, six months to 12 months and I'm about as strong, you know.

Starting point is 01:13:03 Now, as I was then. Yeah, I'd be pissed. I'm asked for a program. Yeah, I'd be pissed too. Yeah about as strong, you know, now as I was that. Yeah, I'd get this. I'm asked to be pissed too. Yeah. I'll, you know, have you followed any of our maps programs? I haven't known. I'm a relatively new listener, but I'm looking at aesthetic, potentially, no, I'm anabolic.

Starting point is 01:13:18 Anabolic. Yeah. I'll send you maps and a ball. And I want you to follow the two foundational workout. It's a, a week side of that. What kind of intensity you're training with when you lift? Yeah, I feel like before I found you guys, there were times where I was training definitely too hard.

Starting point is 01:13:36 So are for days afterwards. Now I've switched it up and I'm, you know, training still pretty intensely, but not to the point where I'm sore for days. You know, I'm going into my lifts, feeling refreshed and recharged. Are you more circuit training kind of style based or more strength training based? You said 5x5. You said 5x5? Yeah, I've done strength focused.

Starting point is 01:14:01 You have 5x5 kind of bodybuilding focus, you know, feeling muscle and, you know, slow it down, that kind of stuff, but all kind of you're building the same results. Yeah, so sometimes I'll run into somebody like you where the volume, the intensity required to get their body to progress is much lower than the average person or put differently. A traditional amount of volume and intensity is too much for that person's body. And so, so I think we're gonna have to scale it back a little bit, which is a said MAP's in a ball, like two foundational workouts a week, do one or

Starting point is 01:14:39 two trigger sessions on the off days and really follow the way we explain to lift on there. So when you do a set, take it to like maybe three, two or three reps before failure. Don't go to failure on your lifts, practice your lifts, practice your form, and then see and then see if your strength things tend to go up. And or that in relation to your food too. So I know I see on your question that you said that you eat high protein and so that which that would be like the first thing that I would ask is to make sure that you're hitting protein and take. But even just being consistent too with the diet, eating what you need consistently and

Starting point is 01:15:12 training. What did you say you understand why you would stop for a while being frustrated after training hard and consistently? How long is consistent for you? Have you strung six plus months together? Do you normally go a couple months? Oh, yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 01:15:28 So you have. Yeah, it's normally two to three years, and then I'll take a break six months or something like that and get back into it. And do you track calories? Have you done that before? Have you tracked macros? So give me an idea of what you eat and what your activity level looks like on a daily basis.

Starting point is 01:15:43 Yeah. So my maintenance, I think is 24 to 26 just using small line calculators. I've done anything from a couple hundred calories above maintenance, like three to 500 to some pretty dirty books to see if I can put on strength. Right now, I've kind of shifted to really just focusing on the protein, doing about a gram per pound per day. So that's about 165 grams for me right now. Outside of the gym, I work at desk jobs. So pretty sedentary, getting up and doing walks throughout

Starting point is 01:16:23 the day, but other than that, you know, it's my workouts and those walks and otherwise I'm out of desk. So. Jake, have you ever had, this is, there's a small chance that this may be an issue, but nonetheless, have you had a hormone panel done to look at things

Starting point is 01:16:37 like testosterone, free testosterone? Yeah, just testosterone. I've never done any other. Test for. Have you, do you remember where you were at? I don't remember off the top of my head. I just remember the, I use Everly Raw, I think, and the test results came back and said normal, basically.

Starting point is 01:16:55 I would go, I would get a blood panel done, just to check, just to see if testosterone, free testosterone, and other hormones are where they need to be, especially if you're noticing any other signs of low testosterone, like low libido, low energy, low confidence, motivation, that kind of stuff, just to take a look and see what's going on, because if your free testosterone is lower than ideal, it's going to be hard to make gains on almost any type of training program. And that sometimes is an issue. Now, you're a young man, so that might not be the case, probably not. But at the very least, what you'll get is a baseline of where you're at when

Starting point is 01:17:32 you're in your 20s. That way, later on, if that ever does become an issue, you know where they were at the age you're at now. Okay. So one other thing with anabolic in terms of the active recovery piece, the trigger sessions in between is, you know, that's one that we'd like to highlight a lot that people need to be consistent with that and try it a couple of different times throughout the day if possible with rubber bands and just to keep stimulating those muscles, but to promote more of that recovery process. I don't know how good your sleep is,

Starting point is 01:18:05 but obviously that's another factor going into this, but it's really just dial in the recovery process in conjunction with that needs to be emphasized. Now the trigger sessions are low intensity, by the way. So don't treat them like workouts when you do that. Very low. Jake, we're gonna send you maps and a ball, and then you can go to mphormones.com

Starting point is 01:18:24 and talk to one of our, the people that we work with on doing like a hormone panel, just to just to see kind of where you're at. And if that's an issue or at the very least, like I said, get a baseline. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it sounds great. Thank you. Thanks, Jake.

Starting point is 01:18:39 Appreciate it. All right. Thanks, guys. Bye. You know, I've had, it's not common, but I've had clients where the amount of volume that their body responds to, or should I say the amount of volume that is too much for them is way lower than the average person. I actually had a client once where he made gains on one day a week, one day a week.

Starting point is 01:19:00 And you know, he walked and stuff on the other days more than one day a week and we did like mobility stuff. Like more than that. It's just like it over train them just over train them. No, I just I remember that because it took me so long to figure that out. Well, especially when the tendency is to just keep cranking more, you know, and that's the typical right? Like you think that if nothing's progressing, you just have to keep piling on to that.

Starting point is 01:19:21 Like when in some instances like this, if it's not working, like reducing the overall volume will make a difference. Something doesn't smell right to me. Yeah. I know. That's why we're trying to troubleshoot. Well, he's gonna get one of our programs, all that. We'll see what happens.

Starting point is 01:19:35 Yeah, I mean, to be training for that long, you know, not seeing a gain, claiming that you're living in a surplus and hitting your protein. Well, that's why I said the hormone thing. He might be suffering some low testosterone. I mean, and he's got a desk job so that there is a chance of that.

Starting point is 01:19:51 But it just doesn't add up to me. I feel like I want to know more information. I'd want to see what's going on a little bit. And he's running a five by five programming, which is legit running training. 10 years, hitting protein take, living and doing surpluses, not stronger than what you were when you were, are you kidding?

Starting point is 01:20:09 Like that's, and then not having any hormone issues or any glaring obvious things. Well, he didn't, he didn't want to let that sleep, sleep was said, he said sleep was good too, didn't he? Yeah, well, he didn't add, he didn't set the hormone to us, which the, the, the, right, right on that, just because of the user and whatever, it can be pretty high and it's not really standard right.

Starting point is 01:20:26 It's not the gold standard. So, but who knows. Jake, if you're listening to this, I'd love to hear back from you after a couple months of following my map, Santa Bolic. Just let us know what happened. Our next caller is Jose from Colorado. Jose, what's happening? How can we help you?

Starting point is 01:20:38 Hey everyone, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. You got it. Great. Yes, I'll just get started. So, a little bit of background So I've been waiting for almost eight years now. So I consider myself definitely not beginner not by any means like super advanced But I've had my fair share of phases of just being really addicted to weightlifting about six warm about 220

Starting point is 01:21:01 Right now my goals are really just kind of just keep my diet and check and cutting down some weight. I have a wedding in a few months that I'm looking to cut down to but my question is really in terms to one of my lingering injuries. So I was just recently working through MAPS and BALLIC and I had a lingering injury that came back. I was hoping to try and treat it and really try to be more preventative about it coming back. So I'm really big into squatting at dead lifting. So I really just love like lower body, like more to compound movements. And for me, pain for me, it was actually kind of my hamstring. And for a while, I thought it was due to weak hamstrings, so I try to treat it, you know,

Starting point is 01:21:43 do some more focused items for hamstrings. And then upon like further research, I started liking it to it, and it seemed like it was a little bit more towards my hip inductor, almost like thicker cell muscle, like towards like the inner of my groin. So I did a little bit more research on that, found if the video is online to try to strengthen that. So I started doing some like wide-stained squats, trying to see if that might have been it. And what I found was when I was actually on the Hibba Doctor machine, I was really weak

Starting point is 01:22:11 and super unstable. So it was almost like really, really lightweight, was really almost like nearly embarrassing. I would start shaking and it was just not a good scene. So my question for you guys is, just from your experiences, that sound like that's kind of like the issue But I know that might be a tough question to answer. And if so, right, what would you guys recommend in terms of building up that strength

Starting point is 01:22:33 potentially going through like treatment and recovery and trying to prevent that down the line too? Well, Jose, you're in luck. Justin is a crotch expert. So he's gonna be up. Yes, he going to be able to help you out here. Actually, Map Symmetry, I think it'll be phenomenal for you. There's really two ways to approach stuff like this. I was like, one, I got to find the muscle involved. I have to find the specific area that's involved. And that can sometimes be a lot like you're a sleuth.

Starting point is 01:23:03 You got to just like, it's a mystery and I got to figure it out. There's another way I'm looking for the function. Yeah, there's another way to do it, which is let me expose the weakness through movement and then let me get better at movements where I can tell that there's an imbalance or there's a weakness. I like that better because it really doesn't matter

Starting point is 01:23:21 when you do it that way. And also it's often a combination of things. It's often not just one week muscle, but often a movement pattern that becomes an issue. So Adam, hit the nail on the head. Map symmetry with its unilateral work. You're going to see, because I'm going to assume that the injury

Starting point is 01:23:39 keeps happening on the same side. Is that correct? Yeah, the assume is died. Yeah, it's like my left side every single. Usually it comes up like it slowly like increases when I'm squatting so I can feel like I can feel like it's there and then at some point it just like comes back. This is why we wrote this program. Yeah, got to address that responsibility. This is why we wrote that program. It was

Starting point is 01:24:01 literally for someone just like you trying to troubleshoot that and How would we regress them back to get to the root cause of it? We'd run you through like a phase of isometrics and then go into unilateral work and for sure during that process It's going to expose the weakness. Yeah, and so here's a tip and we wrote this in the program So you'll see this but just to emphasize it start with the side when you do the unilateral work start with the side That's weak. And then let that dictate the weight and reps for the stronger side.

Starting point is 01:24:28 So don't use the strong side. Say okay, I'd copy that with my weak side. Use the weak side, whatever you do there, then do the strong side. Because we gotta balance things out. You said you love squatting, you love deadlifting, really heavy bilateral work. You probably developed some compensations and a bit of an imbalance

Starting point is 01:24:46 that isn't so obvious until you hurt yourself. But when you go to the unilateral stuff, it's going to become obvious. You're going to see when you do unilateral stuff on the left versus the right, then you're like, oh my gosh, this feels way different or I'm not a stable or I don't have as much mobility or whatever. And that'll correct itself as you continue to do the unilateral work. And then at the end of map symmetry is bilateral five by five work. Then you'll be able to see the fruits of your labor. You'll be able to see the results of training this way.

Starting point is 01:25:12 And just addressing the hip function. I don't know if you've spent any time doing 90, 90s, internal external rotation of the hips, and then increasing that internal tension. That's definitely gonna be something on repeat, I would suggest, in conjunction with going through the program. Yeah, so we'll send maps in the inventory over to if you don't already have it, Jose.

Starting point is 01:25:33 I actually ended up getting it a few weeks ago when you guys were running the sale on it. But I'll get it started though. I actually have that in map sprints too. So just into your point, I've been going to your prime I think I'm gonna start integrating that a little bit more into some of those sessions, too I'll probably around, but we'll give you hug and so we can give you a program

Starting point is 01:25:53 It sounds good. I love to lift with you guys I think everything you guys do. He gives great hugs. Yeah, thanks Jose. All right. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. You got it I do want to say this to the just to the listener doing unilateral focused training for four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, like that's all you do. It's important for everybody to do that. You'll see a lot all kinds of stuff. You'll see all kinds of imbalances and differences

Starting point is 01:26:18 and it tends to highlight in weaknesses and it allows you to strengthen movement patterns. So you don't necessarily need to isolate and find the root muscle or issue, although that can be beneficial at times, but oftentimes just like, let's look at movement and then let's fix the movement and then that ends up fixing the issue. Our next caller is David from New Hampshire. David, what's happening, man? How can we help you?

Starting point is 01:26:41 Hey guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to let me get on here and ask my question. Just gotta say off the bat, you guys have been a major part of my life for the past few weeks since my son's been born. He's sleeping right down here, so I'm gonna talk and hopefully he stays asleep. But I've been working out my garage ever since

Starting point is 01:27:00 he's been born and I listen to your podcasts as I'm doing that. And I find your content so relatable and inspiring. When I first tried to get in touch with you guys, I emailed the wrong email address with someone in and sent me some links that were useful for new parents. And I got to say, Sal, the thing you said about setting an example and being the man that you want your son to become, that just clicked with me, like so powerfully. So that was great. And I'm just really grateful to you guys

Starting point is 01:27:27 for giving me this opportunity. So yeah, those are my questions. New dad, I've been working out since I was 15 years old, just kind of basic, gross blitz and bodybuilding type stuff. So my son was born September 27th, and on September 30th, I turned 33. So I'm just looking for a recommendation for a program to maintain muscle mass, maybe get leaner if possible, but also taking

Starting point is 01:27:52 to account the time constraints in the lack of sleep. So that's my first question and second part is, what do you guys felt when you first have your child around? Because I felt like an immense drop in my testosterone. And I did send you guys that study to see what you think of it. Like, is there anything valid with that? And is it even worth trying to fight it?

Starting point is 01:28:12 Yeah, let's start with that. So there was studies that showed that new fathers had a drop into testosterone for a short period of time. And the theory was that it's an evolutionary thing that it's preventing the man from trying to seek out new mates, right, to stick around to be more parental. Now here's why I think that's bullshit. It's bullshit because low testosterone makes men irritable, it causes our moods to drop and we're less likely to be just good at whatever we're doing anyway.

Starting point is 01:28:45 So what I think is happening is this. Let me ask you a question, David. How's your sleep been since your day since your baby was born? Everything. I mean, at most three, maybe four hours at a time, so severely lacking, and before I was at least eight hours, and I didn't know that has to do a T-level. That's why the testosterone, that's why they see no new dads testosterone levels drop. I think it's hilarious that they try to equate it to somehow low testosterone making men better fathers.

Starting point is 01:29:11 It's not true at all, low testosterone makes you feel like shit, makes everything much harder. Higher, good, healthy testosterone levels makes you feel good, confident, and more likely to make you somebody that you wanna hang around with, okay? So what's happened is you're sleeping like shit, and so because of that testosterone levels tend to drop.

Starting point is 01:29:29 The other thing is this, and this is just, look, here's a deal, when you're a young man and you don't have kids, you're pretty invincible. And what I mean by that is, you know, you're fears and whatever, but really nothing scares you. You know, nothing can mess with you. And then all of a sudden you have this baby, and you love them more than anything.

Starting point is 01:29:46 And now all of a sudden, holy shit, like, I'm vulnerable. Like this baby is, this, this, this, the same, my heart is living outside my body now. And you feel all kinds of emotions. Like you're a young man, nothing bothers you. Then I remember when my first son was, I remember how old he was. He was like, he's like eight months, nine months old.

Starting point is 01:30:02 We're sitting on the couch watching, finding Nemo. And that's when the dad fish loses the, the sunfish and he's swimming after him. And I find myself tearing up. Like, what the hell is wrong with it? Why am I crying on this car, too? Because I kind of understood, like at that moment, so those feelings are all totally normal.

Starting point is 01:30:20 But let's go back to the exercise part. I wouldn't focus on building muscle or trying to get shredded right now with three, four hours of sleep and a newborn. Really what you want to do is you want to look at how can I work out in a way that'll help me live my life better. Okay. So what it's probably going to look like are short daily workouts that help your mental state, that help your mobility, that just help you kind of right now deal with the stresses of having your first kid.

Starting point is 01:30:52 I think Maps 15, it's perfect. I think Maps 15 is absolutely perfect for you. 15-minute workout a day, and then focus on trying to get sleep when you can, focus on trying to eat healthy, and you just kind kinda, you know, you gotta roll with the punches for a little while until it's like after that first year,

Starting point is 01:31:09 then things start to settle back down. You were literally one of the main avatars that we were thinking about when we created that program. And this is how I've been training it for the last three months. So, and it's mainly because my focus is elsewhere right now. And I'm not really trying to build a ton of muscle, build a ton of strength. I'm just trying to maintain,

Starting point is 01:31:30 I've worked really hard to build muscle over my two decades of training. It's really just to maintain, be a better father, be better at running my company, be better at my partner, be better friends, be a better son, that's kind of where my mind is at right now in my life. And so I want to do as minimal possible in the gym to maintain a healthy physique, and that's

Starting point is 01:31:50 where this program came from. So it's like literally perfect for you. Yeah, I think I think that would be a good one for you and you can do it at home. And you know, you find 15 minutes to do a few exercises and just keep yourself healthy and feeling good while you're going through this, you know, especially the first three months. The first three months is like a blur. I mean, it's totally like, yeah, well, it depends on the kid. The first three months is the worst. Then the next three months are hard too, and it gets a little easier, and it's just usually after a year. So you got some, you got some time, bro. One year more, one year is the mark. That's it, I think. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:22 You got some time, go. You're. All right, and you've found, because I guess that's a more realistic goal if I'm going to be real with myself is a goal would be to not lose whatever progress I have made over the years. And you've found that just with those 15 minutes a day, you're at least able to at least maintain that baseline. I mean, there's a lot of factors at play here, right? Diet, sleep, you know, stress, but all things being equal, the, there's actually pretty good studies on this and they show that something like one ninth, the volume that

Starting point is 01:32:49 it took you to build your physique is what's required to keep it. So it's not, not a lot is required to maintain strength and muscle. Now, you'll lose stamina, you'll lose your work capacity, you know, in other words, if you go down to one ninth of volume, you might not lose strength and muscle, but if you bump it back up, you'll get sore again. You won't have the same endurance as stamina. But as far as strength and muscle is concerned, it sticks around with a pretty low amount of volume.

Starting point is 01:33:16 And the longer you've had that muscle, the easier it is to kind of keep. Like, I find now that it's really easy for me to maintain a certain amount of muscle on my body versus when I was... Oh, it's way harder to get it than it is to kind of keep. I find now that it's really easy for me to maintain a certain amount of muscle on my body versus when I was, I was, I was, it is way harder to get it than it is to maintain it. It's, it's much easier to maintain it after you've been trained that long. And so, and, and the, the things that will balance out like you already hit it on the head with your sleep, like, my, my workouts now are to optimize the other aspects of my life. That's the way I look at my workouts. I'm not like, and I've been in the place where I'm training

Starting point is 01:33:47 to get a physique, to get strong, to do certain things where now it's like I lift to be a better version of all those things that I said before. That's the main reason why, and if that's the case, and I'm doing it on minimal or limited sleep because I'm a new father, then I don't want to like crush myself inside the gym. That's not gonna serve me.

Starting point is 01:34:04 I was just gonna make me more exhausted, more tired. It's gonna kick up the cravings then, and that's just gonna make my ability to balance my nutrition and exercise and being a father even more difficult. You know, it's really cool, David, this is kind of fun. You know, your baby's kind of young still, but you get one of those little bouncers.

Starting point is 01:34:21 I know Bjorn makes a really good one for young, young babies, and you can put him in there, and then you do the exercises while he kind of sits there and watches. I don't know how much they absorb, you know, five months, six months, but I found that real cool. My little kid gets to see me working out, and then it kind of becomes a part of their life, and it kind of normalizes. I feel like a superhero when I get to do that, so you may try that. Yeah, and then subliminally, when they're older, they're like, I don't know I feel like a superhero when I get to do that so you may try yeah, and then subliminally when they're older They're like I don't know why but I really want to live weight

Starting point is 01:34:47 That's why I mean I mean I'm trying I know Adam does that with basketball He's always doing basketball stuff around his kid hasn't worked yet, right? It might as well dumbbell rattles I'm not giving up though. I'm not giving up yet Yeah, so we'll send you mass 15 okay? That's so kind of you guys. I'm so thankful to you and just really appreciate everything you're doing again. So thank you so much, you guys.

Starting point is 01:35:08 Really appreciate it. Congratulations, man. Yeah, thanks for having it. You know, I swear to God, I feel like they're purposely, here's, put on your, whatever hat you want to put on. I swear to God, I feel like they're purposely trying to prevent God, like men from just having kids. Louder to testosterone, it's not, it's fun, it sucks. You're not gonna do this, that's like, from just having kids. Yeah. Lowers are testosterone. It's not.

Starting point is 01:35:25 It's fun. It sucks. You're not going to do this. That's like, come on. Everybody calm down. Like if you don't get no sleep, you lower your testosterone. Has nothing to do with being a kid.

Starting point is 01:35:31 You do the biggest anymore. Yeah. It's a noise of shit. I mean, he's actually in a great, I mean, great position. You guys been training for what do you say? Like 10 years plus or whatever like that. He's been training for. He's at 12 to 15% body fat.

Starting point is 01:35:41 185. I mean, this is the time, this is the time you scale back. Yeah. Plus, it's some point, you'll be able to get back to it, you know. It's just right now. This is the period of time where you're not able to go after it. It's just the way it is. Just how it is.

Starting point is 01:35:55 Look, if you like our show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at MindPump. Justin, Adam is on Instagram at MindPump at my pump Adam and you can find me on Twitter at my pump cell. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your

Starting point is 01:36:12 body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps for performance and maps aesthetic, nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos,

Starting point is 01:36:43 the RGB Superbundle is like having sour, animal, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1931: How to Break Through a Muscle & Strength Plateau, Ways to Put an End to Recurring Injuries, the Relationship Between Fatherhood & Lower Testosterone & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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