Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1944: The Best Testosterone Boosting Supplements, How to Train Like an Old Time Strongman, Tips for Getting the Metabolism Back on Track After an Extreme Diet & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? It is today's episode. We answered live caller's questions, but this is after a 40 minute introductory conversation, where we discuss fitness, curtain events,

Starting point is 00:00:27 our lives, studies, and much more. By the way, you can check the show notes for timestamps if you want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email your question to live at minepumpmedia.com. Now, by the way, we have a live event coming up. We may or may not have tickets available. It's a live event here in San Jose where you meet us You're at mind pump headquarters. It's a good time

Starting point is 00:00:50 So if there are tickets available here's where you find them mind pump live dot com by the way max Lugavir will be there as well Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors the first one is creatures of habit. They make a high protein oatmeal. So you got omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, digestive enzymes, much more. Eat it in the morning, it tastes amazing. 30 grams of protein. You got your oatmeal, 8 grams of fat. It's a great way to start your day. In fact, we actually invested in the company. That's so much we like them.

Starting point is 00:01:19 Go check them out. Go to creaturesofhabit.com, forward slash, mind pump. Creatures is spelled with a K and then use the code MP25 for 25% off any purchase. This episode is also brought to you by NCI. This is a coaching community certification course. Now right now check this out. If you're a nutrition coach, a personal trainer or an aspiring coach, they have a crazy hookup right now. So they have a course, it's a gut health masterclass,

Starting point is 00:01:50 normally costs, I think $750, but right now NCI is gonna give it to you for $7. Literally a $750 course for seven bucks, that's only happening this week, and you got to go to this link right here, it's nciminepump.com. Also, we got a sale going on this month. Maps OCR, this is an obstacle course racing program, it's 50% off.

Starting point is 00:02:15 And Maps Cardio, this is a endurance-based workout program, it's also 50% off. You can find both of them at mapsfitinistproducts.com. The coupon code for the discount is November 50. And that again, that'll give you 50% off either or both programs. All right, here comes the show. The best post workout meals for recovery tend to contain a good combination of carbohydrates and proteins, not just protein. Carbohydrates do play a role in post workout recovery.

Starting point is 00:02:43 Now, I want to define what I mean by post workout recovery because there's some confusion around this. I used to think that it meant just general recovery. Like, if I don't eat this, you know, proteins and carbohydrates post workout, I'm just not gonna recover. No, no, no, no, you'll still recover. It's just, you're not gonna recover as quickly, meaning,

Starting point is 00:03:02 if you wanna do another workout later or you wanna do like you, you divide your workouts, or you have something physical later to do, or you want the, you basically just wanna recover a little faster, then your post workout nutrition can make a difference. And the studies do show that having some carbohydrates with your protein, it does it better

Starting point is 00:03:19 than just having protein by itself. No, okay, I remember reading two to one, four to one. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Where are we at with a science on the ratio of carbohydrates to protein that is the most beneficial? It's all over the place. So it depends on the type of, like what athletic endeavor you did,

Starting point is 00:03:43 or workout you did before. If it was like super endurance focused, will you burn tons of glycogen, then you're going to want a higher carbohydrate to protein ratio. Like a 4 to 1 ratio. Like 3 to 1 or, you know, 2 to 1 to 1 for you to be completed. Yeah, if you're like lifting weights, even a 1 to 1 is perfectly fine. You just want some carbohydrates in there to help shuttling the amino acids,

Starting point is 00:04:01 replenish some of the glycogen. But here's the things that people really need to consider with their post-workout nutrition. Besides protein carbohydrates, it's inflammation and digestibility. Because after your workout, you have this general, just kind of systemic inflammation is a little higher. Like if you someone tested your blood post-workout, they would notice inflammatory markers would be a little higher. This is normal. You just did a workout. It's supposed to happen. But part of that is your gut. Your

Starting point is 00:04:29 gut is also slightly inflamed. And what you don't want to do is throw foods on top of that situation that are already hard to digest. So you want to pick foods that are easy to digest that you can consume that it feel good not too heavy.. That could be a sample of that. Well, so white rice, chicken is typically pretty good. The company we work with now creatures of habit, they're oatmeal with the plant protein. It's one of the best, like it's super easy for me. I have a sensitive gut.

Starting point is 00:05:00 It's one of the easiest things I've ever eaten to digest. I eat it and I feel like it's like, I eat nothing. And it's also super convenient. So, and that typically is for most people, right? oatmeal plus some protein plus it's got the digestive enzymes already in there. But I think the key is what you have post workout. You wanna have both carbohydrates and proteins,

Starting point is 00:05:16 but you wanna make sure it's very easily digestible. It's super important. You would like a high calorie bloating inflammatory producing meal. You can cause yourself problems, especially in an inflammatory place. Which isn't even really a consideration that's being promoted at all,

Starting point is 00:05:29 which is probably the highest one to consider, because like before that, it's the hysteria of I'm gonna lose that muscle building window with that anabolic sort of window where I can shuttle in this amount of protein and get the building blocks to kind of promote this, but you know, to that point, I just think that this really needs to consider you may be doing yourself more harm

Starting point is 00:05:50 if it's not something that you're digesting properly. You know, I'm speaking with that creatures habit. There's a little bit of, I don't know, I'd say half and half the people, which I did not see this coming, that like or don't like this part about it, and that's because it's my favorite part, is the seeds. I love the seeds. it. And that's my favorite part is the seeds. I love the seeds.

Starting point is 00:06:06 Oh yeah. That's my favorite part of it. And actually after we, cause it's a nice mouth feel in the crunch. It makes me feel fuller. It's a different texture. So I like it. But I think so, like if you really like your oatmeal

Starting point is 00:06:17 like soup or like honey, or really like almost like cream a wheat like, then maybe that texture towards you off. But I just didn't see that coming. Like I thought, you know, I was wanting everyone to report back on, and I got over the last month and a half, we got all these people, you know, it was like a split of people that I go for.

Starting point is 00:06:34 That loved it or don't. That so that everybody like the macros of course are amazing, the fact that it has plant protein, the fact that it has vitamin D, everyone rents, that's all amazing, right? But the one thing that I got back that was negative feedback is if someone didn't like the seeds or what about that and they're like, oh, it's just a different thing.

Starting point is 00:06:50 I used to add seeds to my, I love, I like that. I used to add pumpkin seeds and I would add sesame seeds and black seeds. Black seeds, yeah. No, it's, you know, this, this point really can't be overstated because they, okay, so when they look at people with gut issues, one of the causes of gut issues, or one of the root issues, is something known as intestinal

Starting point is 00:07:11 wall hyperpermobility. We used to call this leaky gut syndrome. This is where your gut, it's basically a barrier between you and your food, and it only is supposed to allow certain things in and not other things in at the right moment. What happens when the gut is inflamed, that wall becomes leaky in essence. And it allows proteins and compounds to travel through into the bloodstream when they're not supposed to.

Starting point is 00:07:35 And then what happens your body mounts an immune response. So it identifies these proteins when they're not supposed to be there, you build up an immune response and all of a sudden this food that you wait all the time, now all of a sudden you can't digest anymore, or cause problems. And so now, by the way, Western medicine now identifies this or acknowledges us in the past, if you said

Starting point is 00:07:52 leaky gut syndrome, I remember saying leaky gut syndrome to doctors and they laughed me out of the room, but now it's something that we know that can happen. Well, you have, generally speaking, you have more inflammation in your body right after you work out. So what was happening was that these athletes would use crazy hard workouts, and they pound a bunch of food, trying to recover, and they were developing gut issues.

Starting point is 00:08:13 So that's why it's so important, like right after you work out, one of the most important considerations aside from, you know, protein and carbohydrates is, does this digest well? Like, so, like the protein powders that give people gas and blow and they're having it right after the workout.

Starting point is 00:08:27 It's your self-intaking time bomb. Right, or people will go eat like a huge meal, people especially on a bulk, like, oh, we just finished our workout, let's get a bunch of fast food. Like you're potentially sending yourself up for some bad problems. So pick something really easily digestible

Starting point is 00:08:41 right after you work out, and it'll help the recovery process and not produce problems down the road. And the reason why I brought up creatures of habit is because it's very few processed meals that I can find with good macros, that are things that I can eat on a regular basis, because I'm so sensitive that I could do things here and there,

Starting point is 00:08:59 but I have that every day. Do you have a favorite flavor yet? I like the maple. Yeah, I'm one of the best. What about you, Joe? You're probably peanut butter? Peanut butter is usually the one I go with. Doug, maple for me.

Starting point is 00:09:11 Yeah, maple and the blueberry one. Those two are my favorites for sure. All of them taste good though, with all my favorites. Yeah, you just made me remind of me. So I pick up my son the other day. I don't normally pick him up from school. And I did just yesterday.

Starting point is 00:09:26 And I pick him up and he always normally has a few snacks or something like that leftover. And he had a banana there. And so he's, I'm driving and I'm trying to peel the banana for him. And what maybe think of this is I want to ask you guys just so you can think about this while I'm telling the story of like little quirks that your kids have that are funny or like the way they dress or they eat or they

Starting point is 00:09:48 do certain things. And I wasn't aware of this, right? So this is how my learning experiences I'm driving. I peeled the banana and then, you know, it's a big old banana. So I break it in half and I hand it back. You freak out. Oh, he flipped out. How you broke his banana?

Starting point is 00:10:02 I didn't know what it was at first. And then I think, oh, he wants the other one. So thank you, the flipped out. How you broke his banana? I didn't know what it was at first. And then I think, oh, he wants the other one. So then get the other one. So then he's getting it and he's in the back and he's getting so pissed because he can't fix it. He's trying to put it back in. Oh, dude, so I'm trying to actually shove it back in the peel and then roll it back up.

Starting point is 00:10:18 Get some tape. Yeah, and then I'm having a hold in that's falling over and stuff like that and he's getting so pissed. And I'm getting frustrated. I get home like, why didn't you tell me he eats his banana? Bro, that's fallen over and stuff like that. And he's getting so pissed. And I'm like, and I'm getting frustrated. I get home like, why don't you tell me he eats his bananas? That's the way. By the way, that's not a weird thing that Max does. All kids right around that age.

Starting point is 00:10:32 Like I know this because I have older kids. If I give like a cookie or a treat to my son, I know better than to break it off or ask him. Because they freak out. If you give them something and it's different than what they're used to. Ah, yeah. they hate it. Cause chaos.

Starting point is 00:10:47 I mean, the only kind of definitive one is definitely has that like barrier. You know how you stuff like, this food is right here in this core, doesn't touch this one. Like, it's real particular about like, if the foods touch or like the certain consistency. Yeah, average a real picky eater.

Starting point is 00:11:02 Yeah, I've ate with him before. There's been a few times rough. You guys gotta get him something else because and it's a real picky eater. Yeah, I've ate with him before. There's been a few times rough. Yeah. You guys got to get him something else because it's even like textures of stuff, right? Yeah. Like certain textures, he's like, he can't use his out before I'm like, dude, and it's, it literally just keeps constantly testing if I can like sell the idea. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:18 It's like constantly trying to sell the idea, eat more protein, some eggs, like, he's finally coming around, but it's just a constant battle, dude. Were you picky like that as a kid? I was mainly with vegetables. Like everything else I ate so much meat. Like that was, I was just always about just eating meat. But yeah, because of the way it was prepared, though, I didn't realize that.

Starting point is 00:11:37 Like I would have enjoyed it a lot more if the microwave didn't exist. And you know, like Phil Vita-Cheer. Well, your parents really scost you. Your whole life like that. Oh, just like for vegetables with a worst. Like, it was just everything and my dad only would eat ice per glettis and like, carrot and celery.

Starting point is 00:11:57 That was like what he considered salad. I'm like, so this is like basically water. This is not even fiber. Yes, not even. This is like you get water from this. Yeah. This is much nutrients as you got in that salad. But yeah, it's between that and everything was over cooked

Starting point is 00:12:12 and like kind of rubbery. So I didn't really know until I actually worked in a restaurant, in college, and I got exposed to other types of salads and like the way that they cook asparagus and I got into broccoli finally which I never thought I would because I used to hide it. I used to like sit there at the dinner table so everybody would leave. You have to finish your vegetables, you can't leave this table so I would stay there until I buried left and then you know, at every now and then they come in and so I ended up start to hide it like around the room.

Starting point is 00:12:42 Do you caught? Yeah, I got caught because it's rot. You know, like it was in like a snow glove. I found a snow glove in the corner and I would like would stuff it. It's like broccoli and like cauliflower. Yeah, I threw food away once and that was like the worst beating. You know, so when I was a kid, because I grew up,

Starting point is 00:13:00 because I think when you're a kid, you often too want what you don't have, not realizing, maybe not appreciating. So I obviously, I had homemade cooked Italian dinners, and they were for all intents and purposes incredible. But because that's all I knew, I would be jealous when I'd go to my friends house, and they would have like pizza or like McDonald's,

Starting point is 00:13:19 or something like, oh my God, you're so lucky. This is like the best ever. I love McDonald's. know, my mom means, I can tell like a pasta and meat and made a homemade, a brown made bread, you know. That's hilarious. Yeah, speaking of kids, a railiest is going through,

Starting point is 00:13:33 I forgot about this for a second, but then it's like, I looked it up and I'm like, oh yeah. So you know how kids go through like, when they're real young, they go through what are called leaps where they go through sleep regressions or whatever. I forgot there's a big one right around two years old. So

Starting point is 00:13:47 right right now, what's the transition to going to toddler? Yeah. So right now, my son's struggling with sleep. Now he's cool because he stays in bed, but we see him on the monitor. He's just up. He's talking to his stuffed animals or, you know, he's just hanging out or whatever. And but and he's also acting. Is he out of the crib? No, still in the crib. Oh, so you still crib. Okay, all right, but he's he's he's definitely testing things more. He's putting words and sentences together three words four words together. So and I looked it up and it's that his brain is making ridiculous connections right now, which means

Starting point is 00:14:20 He's gonna act a little you know, he's gonna act up a little bit. He's not gonna be sleeping as well You're gonna have more challenges around eating or whatever. Oh, this is perfect timing for us to have an infant. So let's just, I hope he's right in the middle of this. Why would Jessica has the baby? It'll be great. You know, I really didn't think I was gonna

Starting point is 00:14:34 really like those apps as much as I do. I think that they give you a little peace as a parent. Like I know they're not perfect and exactly accurate. Everyone, but they do a pretty good job of communicating what the leaps and different challenges at those phases of their life are that when you're going through a time, it's definitely helped Katrina and I even us communicating, you know, because you're all trying to figure it out. He's trying to figure it out.

Starting point is 00:14:59 You as a dad and a mom are trying to decide what is it. And when it's when they're struggling, you're struggling. And sometimes that can cause tension between all of the guys. You don't know what's going on. Is he sick? What's wrong? They can't communicate. We've leaned on that many times where there's a moment

Starting point is 00:15:14 where we feel like, you know what, when was the last time we lose the app and seeing what? And it's almost always right. It's been for us. It's been that way for us. Dude, I looked it up. Like, spot on. Like, damn, that's exactly what we're doing.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Well, because Jessica and I were sitting there and we're like, is he, what's wrong? She's like, what's wrong with my kid? She's like, he's not sleeping right. No, we didn't have none of that. I wish she would have that. Oh, she's like, he's acting up, like, something's not right.

Starting point is 00:15:32 And I'm like, you know, he's just a seam sick, like, what's going on? I'm like, you know what? Let me look it up and I looked it up. And one of the things that's set on there, it's set all the stuff that we were experiencing. But then also said, you may notice now that your child, all of a a sudden is scared of the dark

Starting point is 00:15:48 Because at this age is when they're imagination their imagination starts to run wild Yeah, and they start to fear the dark sure enough. That's exactly what's happened with them all of a sudden If there's the dark living room over there and he goes, but on no, I'm like, why buddy? He goes dark no dark No dark. I'm like you don't want to go in there. No. I'm like this is so weird He's never scared before and then you read the you know the app or whatever. Oh, he's never scared before. And then you read the, you know, the app or whatever. It's totally on point. Speaking of kids, someone in our forum posted this video of this kid, probably, I wanna say six or seven years old, doing like a clean and snatch with the barbell.

Starting point is 00:16:16 Good technique, good form. But the post was, do you guys think this is okay to have like a seven or eight year old lift weights? And I said, you know, and I commented underneath underneath this is huge misconception about about strength training of kids And I said so long as a form and technique is good and they've got good control It's as safe as playing sports like nobody would question a seven year old playing soccer or baseball or basketball But for some reason when they lift weights everybody freaks out. Yeah, it's the same rules Like if they do it right and they're out. And it's the same rules.

Starting point is 00:16:45 Like if they do it right and they're not overdoing it and the technique is good, it's not only perfectly safe, it's extremely valuable for them. There is this misconception, it was like stunted growth, something. And yeah, we need to do more work in dispelling that because yeah, if they have proper technique and good form and they really learn like sound fundamentals, that's going to carry through the rest of their life better than anything else that can learn. Well, you like why not start with that? I mean, you could make the case that it would actually have huge carry over into sport for

Starting point is 00:17:14 them too. That's a huge general strength. Yeah. Oh my God. Especially if you learn technique and form on something like a snatch like that, that's a very technical technique. And you know what the challenge is, is making your kid do it because it's boring. Yeah, right. It's not nearly as fun as playing a sport. So that's why most kids don't do it.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Is that it's not fun to get you know, so when I see a video like that, I'm like, Oh, man, yeah, you can tell there's a difference when a kid is doing it and they're into it and they're performing and they're trying to work on it versus a parent trying to tell their kid, Hey, you need a squat and put in barbell and that's not safe to me is loading a kid up with a barbell when they don't even want to be squatting and you're trying to tell their kid, hey, you need a squat and put in barbell and that's not safe to me, is loading the kid up with a barbell when they don't even want to be squatting and you're trying to tell them to squat, like that, not a safe idea. Well, even more so since having the kids in gymnastics,

Starting point is 00:17:53 I see the benefit of doing a little higher risk movements, in terms of the stress of it, the complication of it, they're learning how to operate their body and control their body at a higher level, which then translates to strength as well, because now they have more stability and control in their movements. So if they go to pick something up, it's just like, it's such a better looking exercise that they can perform. But yeah, it's still like, it's stressful for me, because there's a high potential for injury, flipping and then doing all these crazy stunts

Starting point is 00:18:30 on that level, so what are we talking about? Isn't that funny how the myth just continues to permeate with strength training? Well, there was a massive myth around it, though. They're like, used to think that it like, they used to say it like, with damage to growth plates. Yeah, you know which weight your kid would have to live?

Starting point is 00:18:44 Yeah, I know. But I mean, you hear that. I mean, it's hard to get rid of that thought. And we're all so protected. It is. Children. And so, and they're really what's important. Like jumping off the top of a, you know, a playground thing

Starting point is 00:18:54 and hitting the ground is going to produce way more force on your growth plates than what your kid is going to squat with proper form. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's just the fact. No, that's a good point. Now, along the lines of children and stuff, I read something the other day I thought was crazy, crazy, but makes a good point. Now, along the lines of children and stuff, I read something the other day, I thought was crazy, crazy,

Starting point is 00:19:06 but makes a lot of sense. So there's some research that is starting to show a potential correlation. So you guys are familiar with SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome. Very sad, right? Your kid seems healthy or whatever. That's the worst, yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:19 Then they just, you know, die in their sleep or whatever. And there's like, they're always trying to find connections like, what's going on here? What's happening? Well, there may be a correlation between circumcision and SIDS. What? Little boy, little baby infants getting circumcised and then SIDS. And I read why they think that, well, first off,

Starting point is 00:19:35 they showed that there's a correlation in the data. So then what they did is they said, okay, let's try and find a potential cause. I did not know this. So an infant only has about 11 ounces of blood and they may easily lose one to two ounces in circumcision. That's the equivalent of two to four blood donations

Starting point is 00:19:51 for an adult. I don't know, interesting. Wow. That's interesting. Isn't that great? So let's say you don't even consider that. My son did lead it all when he did his. Well, that's very true, but sometimes they do.

Starting point is 00:20:02 Oh, so that. And so they're showing that. That seems like such a leap, though, to the case, in that situation, they're showing that there may be some correlation. Well, there's literally only two options either they're circumcised or they're not. So it's already a 50, 50 shot that you can make

Starting point is 00:20:15 that correlation. I mean, and that just, basically there's a higher rate of SIDS. What will be more circumcised boys and uncircumcised and they're trying to figure out if it's that or if there's something else like that. Now what would be more interesting to me is to show because I'm sure there are different like when the kid does get circumcised, there are ones that do probably bleed a lot more than others enough that you could show like, oh, these ones that we had an abnormal amount

Starting point is 00:20:39 of blood, they were they were 80% more likely to have SIDS than someone that either didn't have a circumcision or had little to no blood, like that to me would be a better. Do you guys know how big of a how many how many less children or babies get in circumcised today than when we were kids? Huge difference. Yeah, I know it's a lot. They were trying to talk you out of it like immediately now.

Starting point is 00:20:59 Well, when we were kids, it was like 80% of boys were circumcised. Now it's like, I don't know what it is, now 30, 40%. It's dropped considerably. Yeah, I think that's not still total. I think that's comparing like the generation now, they have gone from 80 to down to 30% or what that. No, I think it's total 30, 40%. Get circumcised now.

Starting point is 00:21:20 Whereas when we were kids, you think seven out of 10 kids are not circumcised now? If I'm not mistaken, maybe Doug can look it up with the friends around. Yeah, I don't think so, dude. I do know, I do know, and I have seen that it has completely changed from when we were little. It's a lot more, but I don't think it's that high room.

Starting point is 00:21:39 It's a big swing. I don't think it's fun. 64% are. Okay, and when we were kids was 80% if I'm not mistaken, that sounds more like it. That's still a big swing. I don't mean it's a big swing. 64% are. Okay. And when we were kids it was 80% if I'm not mistaken. That sounds more like it. That's still a big, it's a huge draw. Yeah, no, it's well, it's almost half now. Almost half for, it's now almost a 50% split.

Starting point is 00:21:53 You think correlate to the drop in religion and religious practices? Probably. Although, you know, the, the, the, so Jewish religion, I think it's the only one that says that you should be circumcised, right? Yeah, I think so. I think by proxy, the, the, the, so Jewish religion, I think it's the only one that says that you should be circumcised, right? Yeah, I think so. I think by proxy though, Christians, Christians, not in the religion, but in the religion, but it tends to be the practice.

Starting point is 00:22:12 It was part of the culture for a whole year. Yeah, it's really, I don't know. I don't know. Really interesting to me, but I mean, when I heard that with the blood and the data, I was like, oh shit, that's crazy to me. Yeah, yeah. Because one ounce of blood is nothing, but for an infant. Yeah, for an infant, yes. That makes sense though, I mean, especially if you had

Starting point is 00:22:27 a situation where they, like I said, I'd like to see the situations where they blood a little more than they're supposed to. And I wonder if there was like a even higher possibility. And also you may, look, you also may be like, okay, kids who get circumcised, also tend to have parents that do this. You know, that's why I need to find a way.

Starting point is 00:22:41 That's why I set up things. So it's unknown. The, the, There's a correlation. Well, I'm just saying like in terms of it being, they suffocated or you know what I mean versus like it was something other physiological thing that happened that caused the death. They've made some other correlations too,

Starting point is 00:22:58 like not breastfeeding, C-section, not sleeping, skin to skin, on mom or dad. But correlation is not- No, not sleeping skin-to-skin on mom or dad. But correlation is not- No, I'm always thinking of the correlation stuff. It's something for me is such a reach. But the theory behind it was interesting.

Starting point is 00:23:12 I mean, obviously points in a direction we should look into it. Exactly, yeah, yeah. And pay attention, so I agree with that. Exactly. To get too hyped up on it. You guys might hear a funny story that I read. That was just so, it happened back in 1908,

Starting point is 00:23:23 but that was a funny thing I read a long time. So there was this dog, I gotta find out where it was. I think it was just so it happened back in 1908, but that was a funny thing I read a long time. So there was this dog I got to find out where it was. I think it was in England. There was a dog in England that got an award because it saved this child from a river. So the dog went in, oh, Paris. Sorry, this was in Paris. So this dog, it was a new foundland dog, heard a child screaming and the kid had fallen into the river CN. The dog went in, found the kid, pulled the kid out and saved the kid. And so they celebrated and gave this dog a big ass state as part of the celebration, right? Not that long after the dog saved another kid from the river. And then another kid from the river, you know what they found out?

Starting point is 00:24:04 The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river.

Starting point is 00:24:13 The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river.

Starting point is 00:24:21 The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. The dog was putting him in the river. Just drop some yeah, that's a true story. Yes So he would see so they found they were watching I'm like what's going on? Oh There be kids playing this the river and push it in and then he jump in and save Bad dog bro that's dog that's a. What do you do at that point? You're mad I know that's your bad you know exactly dog was trained. Do you train them to do that? They say that right like Always like when dogs misbehaved some of that. It's like you're getting trained or they're getting trained

Starting point is 00:24:58 That's the such thing as a bad dog. It's you either you're getting trained as the owner or you're training them as the owner So no, that, that's hilarious. I mean, that makes sense. I have one for you guys. So last night, Katrina and I were doing, I love John Deloney, our friend. He has such a good guy. His cards, he has those, all those cards,

Starting point is 00:25:16 like he really does. Yeah, we use them all the time. So Katrina and I will just be sitting there and we'll pull them out. And so she pulled one out that I thought started a funny conversation, so I'm gonna ask you guys. So what is a white lie that you told that actually ended up getting you in big trouble

Starting point is 00:25:31 or causing a big problem? Oh, I think about that. I think of a white lie that you did in the end of backfire and probably pretty big or ended up being bigger than what you think of. I can't think of the top of my head right now. Do you have a good one? Yeah, I'll tell you what happened.

Starting point is 00:25:45 I'll tell you the one I shared with her that it's, I mean, what I love about these things it really does promote like having to think. Like you have this. It does, good discussion. Like let me think of a time where I'm sure that's happened. I'm sure I thought there's all no big deal to lie about this and then it was really bad because I did.

Starting point is 00:25:59 So for me, the one that I jumped out was when I was a, I was in high school. And so I'm a junior junior was when I was a I was in high school and so I'm a junior junior or senior and No, it's a senior and Friday nights after football games we would go to the party and It was and I'm sure you guys have done this before too where you tell your parents that you're spending the night at Justin's house Justin tells his parents. He spent the night at Adam's house So we're all lying about whose house was we're spending

Starting point is 00:26:27 that so we can go out and be out at the party all night long. So my buddy Justin, my cousin Travis and myself, all did the little trifecta lie about, so everybody's staying at each other's house, right? And that night we got in a car accident driving from one party to another another party. And on top of that it was we were driving my cousin's uncle's classic Mustang. I remember the story.

Starting point is 00:26:52 And I was driving it and I actually had had a beer. So I had one beer already and I was so paranoid that I was going to get in trouble for driving that my best friend Justin who was in the back seat who hadn't started drinking yet took the fall and said that he sold he told the cops that he was driving this whole situation. And so of course, this one tiny little small lie ended up being this massive lie that not only do we lie to our parents, I got crazy trouble for that. We lied to my uncle about who was driving. So he was absolutely pissed like who the hell is this random kid who's driving?

Starting point is 00:27:23 Not only did you do that. And then my best friend had to get up in court and lie that he was the driver and explain how he got into the accident when it was really me who was driving. So, you know, all from this tiny little, oh yeah, we're spending the night over each other and it worked like all the time and we just thought nothing of it. It was no big deal. I can't think of one. I don't know why I just thought of this, but in high school,

Starting point is 00:27:43 oh, he's not really a white light, just a lie. That wasn't real, exactly. That's a white light, like, come on, like you're spending the night, like, it's kind of semantics, we were spending the night somewhere. I got to play a lie, dude. I'll open up about that. I'll give you a white light, okay.

Starting point is 00:27:58 There was this kid in high school and he was singing one time by the bathroom or whatever, and I kind of made like a comment and he goes, oh, you like how he was singing, he was singing one time by the bathroom or whatever and I kind of made like a comment and he goes, oh you like, you like how he's singing, he's like, I've been practicing or whatever and I felt bad and he sounded like shit, right? Yeah, you're pretty good, yeah, you're good, you're good, right? It's like a total white line. Like he did, he's at the school talent. He signed up to speak.

Starting point is 00:28:21 He got up and he fucking sang and he sucked. And he was so mad. I felt the bad. He was popular and he fucking sang and he sucked. And he was so mad. And I felt the bad. He was popular and he's a popular kid telling him that he was gonna do it. I should have told him afterwards. I should have told him the truth.

Starting point is 00:28:31 Like, no, you sucked, dude. You should never see him from the people. Oh, my God. That's the only one I could think of. That's the top of my head. Yeah. Oh, so many lies for you. It's just one.

Starting point is 00:28:41 Just really bad ones. And there's like, well, acceptable. Well, the main lie that I think always sticks out to me and is one that almost kicked out of my house completely, which, you know, was something I was kind of like fighting anyways. I was like off to college and I'm like, we can kick me out of the house. I don't even live here anymore. You know, but this was just like a principal thing. And like me and my dad always fought about tattoo and just about like you know different passages and like so they leaned on the heavy conservative side. I was like you know what

Starting point is 00:29:11 inspired me with and you guys know how I'm into all these crazy weird bands and all that is because it was like a outlet for me and there was like a subgenre within you know the church where I could like feel like I'm kind of a rebel. And so I was like all drawn to tattoos. So I was in a Christian college and I actually went with some of my friends and was just like, you know, whatever. I'm gonna get my favorite band of tattooed on my arm.

Starting point is 00:29:38 Like it's, I'm on my own, I'm living on campus. Like whatever it did. I know my dad's gonna hate this, no big deal. And then I get it done and we come back for Thanksgiving and like it's kind of poking out of my shirt, like right here. And my brother of course sees it at first and he wants to throw me under the bus and roast me and I'm just like, like oh, so I just,

Starting point is 00:30:00 I had some like markers and I was like drawing other stuff on my arm Actually, it was like it was like go to go with like hand in tattoo or I was just gonna go with like I was just doodling You know, it's like made this whole like, stupid design on my arm with a magic marker. And so anyways, he came to me this kind of skeptical look. Is there more there? I'm like, no, no, it's nothing. And then he found out and he pulled my arm all the way up

Starting point is 00:30:39 and then we slapped across your face. Yeah, we had a moment. We had to work through it. He's counseling, all that stuff. Wow your face. Yeah, we had a moment, we had to work through it, you'd be counseling all that stuff. Wow, yeah. Wow. It was that a hero today. We were here today, hey.

Starting point is 00:30:51 It's everything's fine. You got that big trouble. I got it. We hired a therapist. Yeah, that was a good time. What about you Douglas? It was a big one. Yeah, I'm sitting here trying to think of one

Starting point is 00:31:02 and I'm having a hard time. I feel like any white live said is probably more like what Sal did, just like complimenting somebody on somebody's fishing for a compliment. Those are funny white lives. It's like, yeah, it's like, you know, somebody asking, do I look fat? Oh, no, no, you don't, you know?

Starting point is 00:31:17 So I think that's probably what I've done. I don't know if there has been a negative consequence because of it, but. You didn't tell that to a past girlfriend and then she put 50 more pounds on because you told her she looked alright. In fact, you're actually too skinny. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:31 Oh, really? Damn it. Yeah, does this look good on me? Oh, yeah, it looks great. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, or you know what, you know, you don't have any white light as Adam

Starting point is 00:31:40 because you either lie or you don't. I don't think you do a white lie. If someone asks you a question, maybe you'll lie. Yeah, I'm not even, you'll just tell them. Yeah, no, I'm. If someone asks you a question, yeah, I'm like, yeah, no, I'm like, fat in this yes. Yeah, no, you're right. I think I guess that to me seemed like a white lie then because it was we had done it so many times. It was kind of like the common behavior like, hey, you know, it's Friday night, you say you're at my house, we all say that. And then we sleep wherever we end up. And there was something we always did. So I thought it was kind of,

Starting point is 00:32:04 I don't know if that's categorized as a white lie, but it's like to me, it was so no big deal, but turned into be like one of the biggest deals. Yeah, you got to be careful because you can bite you back. Like I remember telling one of my friends, moms, I'd eat over there sometimes, she made this dish and I'm like, oh, it's so good. Of course she made it every fucking time when I went there.

Starting point is 00:32:24 And I didn't like it. Yeah. So I had to eat it every single time. I learned not to do that. You know what? Here's one. It's not really a white lies. It's more of like a, this is more of like a,

Starting point is 00:32:32 like I didn't say anything. There's this woman that I used to work with. And she said my name, and this happens every once well. She said my name, Saul instead of Sal. Sometimes it happens. Someone says Saul. And I'll correct them. Oh, you didn't correct your name.

Starting point is 00:32:44 And I said, no, it's Sal. And then she kept saying Saul. And then I said, no, no, Sal. And then she kept as Saul. And I'll correct them. Oh, you didn't correct. And I said, no, it's Sal. And then she kept saying, Saul, and then I said, no, it's Sal. And then she kept saying, Saul, and I stopped correcting her. Well, anyway, I knew this one for like two years. Never told her, but I've never fixed it. Yeah. So I just, I was salt to her. And then one day there were other people talking and she's like, Sal, she's like, how you say your name? Like, yeah, that's how it's like two years. Yeah. It goes like two years later. That reminds me, yeah, because so this one client I had, just for some reason in her head,

Starting point is 00:33:10 I told her a play called football, and so she's, you know, I was like, first, those at Sanzi State, and I went to Trinity, and for some reason, she thought, like, I had said organ, like, like a long time ago, and I'm just like, yeah, whatever.

Starting point is 00:33:22 And like, I reaffirmed it for one time, not even like catching it that she said, or instead of like, and so like later on, she's like introducing me to somebody. Like, what's up there? Like did you have a Mr. Stead, like naming the coach and like other players and I'm just like, yeah, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:33:40 wait, what's cool do you think I would see? Yeah, that's like a good white lie example. That's true. Well, you know what's a common think I went to? Yeah, that's like a good white lie example. It's a good answer. Well, you know what's a common white lie that I do is if somebody knows me, I'm so bad, sometimes with faces and names, they'll come up, Sal, hey, do you remember that?

Starting point is 00:33:55 Whatever, like, yeah, yeah. I don't remember anything. I have no idea who you are. No, anybody who's gonna write it here. You can say anything, and I'll say, yeah. It's uncomfortable for me. I don't want want to be like no, I don't remember you Yeah, I'm gonna do the back of the board. I just like yeah, I remember you It's a common one. Oh, that's a terrible one. Anyway, I got this cool article

Starting point is 00:34:17 Change gears here on AI generated music. Did you guys know that the recording industry association in America is actually Trying to figure out legislation to protect against this? Oh, explain this again. So AI, artificial intelligence. So basically to protect, I know we knew this was coming. How do you protect, let's just say like someone who has such an iconic voice, like a Michael Jackson, right? From AI reproducing it themselves and then you selling it as if because it's it's not him anymore It's now this artificial intelligence, but they can do such a good job of mimicking They do a blend of that right brown and they just kind of mash it all yeah because there's these right now

Starting point is 00:34:57 We have these what are called AI music generators that'll that'll that are able to make music and so they're like holy shit So basically what they said is they said, yeah, what a trip. So the issue to statement condoning the use of AI music generators. So online services that use AI to extract or rather copy the vocals, instrumentals, or some port portion of the instrumentals from a sound recording to generate,

Starting point is 00:35:18 master or remix a recording to be very similar to or almost as good as reference tracks by select well-known sound recording artists or infringing on its members rights by making unauthorized copies of our... Do you know what this reminds me of, Sal? It reminds me of the designer sterile market. So can you not see that this is going to be the hustle of the future? Is to take a hit song and then to use artificial intelligence

Starting point is 00:35:46 to change it by a molecule, change it by a tune, just a little like you remember when Vanilla ice went through that whole thing with the original people. Was it sting? No, I forget who the original, the original. Remember that clip of ending is. Yeah, done, done, done, done, and he changed it, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, And he changed it to Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun So that is gonna be K night like came and shook him up about it. I held him over the balcony. Over the balcony. That was vanilla.

Starting point is 00:36:28 I see you did that too. Yeah, did that to him too. I know he did the multiple guys. Yeah, I don't remember it was vanilla. I just kind of moved. But okay, do you get where I'm going though with this? Like that is gonna be imagining what a hustle that is gonna be. And it's still gonna,

Starting point is 00:36:40 it's probably gonna be able to get through all these loopholes because no matter how much they legislate and protect and say, okay, you can't have a part of song, you can't have this, you can't have this. All you would need is someone to just barely change a little bit of everything then, and then what's to stop them? It's crazy because I mean,

Starting point is 00:36:54 that's every artist is inspired by other music. Totally. And you're kind of brought up, it's a weird thing because I don't know, I kind of got back into just making my own music and sounds and everything. You start to remember, like, oh my God, this is from that song. And then you try to self-regulate on some level. It's like, this sounds way too similar to something I've heard in this, but then it

Starting point is 00:37:20 ends up blending a lot. So it's really hard to, unless it's super obvious, hard to like, unless it's like super obvious. I feel like whatever, it's a creative interpretation. You know what though, the days of, I mean, they're trying to fight the inevitable. At some point, AI is going to generate brand new music. It's just going to happen. And it's going to, because it's AI, it's's gonna figure out what lights up the brain the best, what produces the best serotonin and dopamine hits,

Starting point is 00:37:49 and what's got the most catchy, like what makes things catchy, it's gonna all become math and formulas. And AI is gonna make music that's gonna crush. Okay, I agree, but I also still, I actually think this is gonna elevate, okay? The music industry, and you hear me out. Like I think that you're right.

Starting point is 00:38:05 And I think that that is gonna be a big portion. Let's say of the music space is gonna be this AI generated type shit, right? And I say shit because what it won't have is that emotion and feeling and like energy from like fucking brilliant people that like pour their heart into the song and they do it. And I think that's what you're gonna have

Starting point is 00:38:24 like mostly AI stuff because they don't it'll solve the basic club bouncing around music that you don't really but then the like elite elite will still be able to separate themselves. I don't know because AI that's what I think I don't know because Conversation me because like I I've noticed recently the music I'm most drawn to it's not the high-produced music We've been getting so much of that over the drawn to, it's not the high-produced music. We've been getting so much of that over the years to where everything's in the recording studio, it's like everything's tracked on track, on track, on track.

Starting point is 00:38:53 But like there's not a lot of garage bands, there's not a lot of like just, you know, somebody with an instrument in the Mocapello type stuff, right? Yeah, but just like raw. That's, see that's the thing though, we think, and maybe we're right, maybe we're wrong, that there's a magic involved, but maybe these AI machines can break down the formula. It literally makes something that's nervous.

Starting point is 00:39:13 I just thought, I think they will. Okay, so how long until there is, music is no longer making money, because everybody has the only real thing. They will still be, okay, so AI will be able to break down the formula of like what be with what time in between to what pitch to like this to get like the to invoke this type of feeling that we all know it's going to be like it's going to cover 80% but then there's going to be that gap for that that magical special voice or person that and it will only be in that moment.

Starting point is 00:39:45 It won't be pre-recorded track, edited up stuff. It'll be that. Improv? Yes. You know what it's that we'll be drawn to. And we will be able to, and we as humans, because we'll pick up on our heart, that's right.

Starting point is 00:39:55 We will be able to sense the difference between that and that, and that will make that more valuable because it's so rare. But for the most part, we listen a lot of the story. I agree with you for different reasons, not for that, because I think the computers will figure that out. I think it'll be because of the story behind it. For example, classic cars.

Starting point is 00:40:13 Okay, if classic cars didn't have the story behind them in the history, in reality, they're just pieces of it. So I, I don't like driving a old car. You can't separate it. They're rough. You're right. You can't separate it. You're gonna know the story of that person,

Starting point is 00:40:25 what they've went through, and when you're listening to this, and it's a human, and it's a person, and then you're gonna connect to how they are coming through in the song, and they won't be able to replace that. But that's why you'll elevate the music industry

Starting point is 00:40:36 because now all these fucking artists that are all auto-tuned and they just do, they rip somebody else's music and make it kinda, and like, are just like, they're talented at doing that shit, but they're not like this pure. It's gonna be the stuff. It's got a shelf life. It's like the same reason why I like old dungeon gyms,

Starting point is 00:40:53 not cause their equipment's better, it's usually not better. It's just feeling in the, in the story behind the gym that I'm in, you know, so I like the classic car example, because when you ride in one, unless you appreciate class, it's really just a shitty car, like, it's bumpy, it's loud. You gotta do this to open the window. No, it turned it real well. I brakes down all the time.

Starting point is 00:41:11 Just driving my dad's car for a hot nights, so then like pulling up, just because of the elevation and coming off of the freeway and then like idling just too long, and the fan didn't kick on properly. Like it was, I'm in thisling just too long. And the fandom kicked on properly. Like it was, I'm in this plume of steam. And it's just like, oh yeah, that happens. I got to switch gears here, because I want to ask you guys a question

Starting point is 00:41:33 about personal training certifications. I think that there, I think a lot of them are missing out on some big, big components. What do you guys think is one of the main things that they miss out on? Well, I'll tell you the number one thing for me. It's what it's what, um, it's why I had success as a manager at 24 our fitness was because nobody's was, nobody was teaching these trainers how to build a business. That's it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:56 When I teach you the training part, but I tell this, I actually talk about this when I do like the NCI coaching and I tell them that them that I was not a very good trainer. I had many trainers that worked for me that were far more intelligent, that had way more experience. They're better trainers than me. Just when it came down to nutrition, biomechanics, anatomy, physiology,

Starting point is 00:42:18 they just, they were on another level of experience and knowledge than I was. But what I saw was the ability to help these trainers build a business, because none of the certifications, the degrees they all had were not in that. You know, and they had no clue on really how to scale and how to,

Starting point is 00:42:35 even how to set on a business plan into a whole second half of education. You know, there was like that whole time period where I was like, man, I wish I was doing this at the same time of learning, what I was learning in school in terms of like kinesiology and all that. The application part just wasn't there, man.

Starting point is 00:42:53 I was, I'm a very hands on, it's a hands on business. Like if you, one to one, if you can't build a business, you can't help people. You can't train people with fitness. This is, so NCI has, is a big part of what they do with their certifications is teaching coaches and trainer, how to build business, how to make money doing this. So you could actually do this for a living and that happens to be the most popular part of their certification.

Starting point is 00:43:16 That's the part that most of the coaches and trainers have. Well, it helps them make money. Because nobody else does it. Well, and what, the reason why that's so important is many trainers that work for me that were brilliant and talented didn't make it because they couldn't run a business. That's right. I mean, you think when you get into the space

Starting point is 00:43:36 that, oh, if I'm just the most educated, the most knowledgeable, I have all the answers for everybody and people like me, I'm gonna, I'll be one of the most successful trainers. And unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You quickly find out that there's a lot of marketing and selling and learning how to organize, set a business plan, set goals for yourself.

Starting point is 00:43:53 Like there's a lot more that goes into being very successful as a trainer. And if you're all focused on just the educational and you miss out on that business part, many times you won't make it. Majority times. Yeah. Check this out.

Starting point is 00:44:06 Home gyms are awesome, but they take up a lot of space and the quality often isn't that great. Well, there's a company called PRX Performance that makes commercial grade workout equipment that is also designed to maximize space in your home. For example, they have a squat rack that literally folds up into the wall

Starting point is 00:44:21 and it comes off the wall by about four inches. Okay, four inches off the wall. That's how much space it takes. Then when you're ready to use it, you pull it off the wall at unfolds, super stable. I've loaded up to 600 pounds on this thing. And it's actually more stable than the squat racks I've used at the commercial gym. It's incredible, but they have lots of equipment. They have plates and barbells and dumbbells and cables and all kinds of great stuff for your home. Go check this company out.

Starting point is 00:44:44 Go to PRXPerformance.com forward slash mind pump and on that link, you'll get 5% off their products. Here comes the rest of the show. First caller is Simon from Manitoba. Simon, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey there. First of all, I just want to say, I really enjoy listening to you guys.

Starting point is 00:45:04 Talking to you guys, listening to your podcast and everything. It's helped me a lot in forming a solid work out routine. And just to kind of give all the background. So I've been training full body three times a week for at least two years now. And I've learned a lot of workout stuff from y'all and incorporated that into my work out routine. Recently, I heard Sal mentioned Eugene Sandow and he was an 1800 strongman. Now I'm a big strongman fan.

Starting point is 00:45:30 I love watching Branch Shoddy, Hall and all those guys. So having to hear that there was a strongman in the 1800s got me curious. So I started doing some research on Eugene Sandow, was very impressed by his strength and his amazing mustache. Knowing that he also did full body workouts, Sandel was very impressed by his strength and his amazing mustache. Knowing that, he also did full body workouts, gave me a confidence that would be able to reach my strength goals with full body workouts as well. So recently I decided that I wanted to try and workout like an 1800 strong man.

Starting point is 00:45:58 The question being, what are the fundamental building blocks for training like an 1800 strong man or is it even training like an 1,800 strong man a good idea? Wow. I love this question because first off to answer that last part, yes, it's a great idea. You got to consider sometimes where people get their advice from and a lot of the fitness advice that we hear out there in modern times comes from people that are very different from us.

Starting point is 00:46:26 Both genetically, they tend to be pharmaceutical enhanced. And so it's hard to apply their training principles to, let's say if you're like most people, like 99% of us kind of average. People in the late 1800s, early 1900s, they didn't even have supplements. I mean, let alone anabolic steroids. And how they looked was not nearly as important as what the kind of performances they could display and how they built a living. And old times strong men are different

Starting point is 00:46:53 than strong men today. Strong men today, it's a regulated sport, there's specific lifts, there's competitions. Back in those days, they would do these performances and then they would challenge each other to different lifts. So you'd get one strong man. He'd be really popular in one area, and then there'd be another strong man from another

Starting point is 00:47:10 area, or maybe from Europe, and then they'd cross paths, and then they'd do these competitions to see who was stronger, or sometimes they'd wrestle, or arm wrestle, or they would do a particular lift. So it's really cool history, and really, really cool to learn about their training methodologies. And there's books, there's books that were written by them or about them that you can find. I'm trying to think of the website where you can find some of these books.

Starting point is 00:47:33 I think it's called, I think it's called Old Time Strong Man or something like that. I'm a man, yeah. And you'll find some of their, there's another book called Dinosaur Training, which is a more modern book, but it borrows on some of their training principles. But you can narrow it down to something like this.

Starting point is 00:47:47 So they trained, typically three days a week, they trained lifts and not body parts. So they didn't think about shoulders, chest, arms, that kind of stuff. It was more about like, let me get good at these particular feats of strength. They didn't train to failure. In fact, most of those books from back then talked about training hard, but making sure that you could train hard again in a couple days,

Starting point is 00:48:11 or not overexerting yourself. They would say stuff like that. So kind of like what we talk about, where you train intensely, but you're not out there maxing out and killing yourself every single time. They did lots of isometrics, partials and holds.

Starting point is 00:48:26 So like, if somebody was gonna perfect an old-time lift, like a bent press, they might start by getting underneath a weight and seeing if they could just hold it straight up or doing like some kind of a partial lift to build their strength up. They practiced lifts, meaning they would practice the lift over and over again rather than like

Starting point is 00:48:45 training to get fatigued or tired. They ate diets that were typically heavy and full fat cream, milk, egg, cholesterol. They would add in that. Yeah, lots of meat, that kind of stuff. They would throw in carbohydrates in there as well too, but they would talk about like, you know, eggs, meat, and full fat cream was kind of, and organ meats. Do you remember how many strong man type lifts

Starting point is 00:49:12 that we built in MAP Strong? I know we have the circus press in there. I know we have a windmill in there. What else do we have? Do we do a bent press in there? I don't know if we did a bent press. I don't think so. No, we did do a bent press.

Starting point is 00:49:22 Yeah, they were really big on overhead anything. So any kind of overhead press, that was like the ultimate display of strength. Rounded backlifting. Yeah, lifting these other... Lifting these other... Hip thrust type lifts, they were called like a hip hoist. There were a lot of competitions to see.

Starting point is 00:49:37 Some of them will lift like a horse, you know, in that kind of a lift. And it was just really about what you could do. You know, Eugene Soundo's good. You could look up aen Schmiff, I think his last name was, George Hacken Schmiff, that's where they got the Hack machine from. What was the one they did with the barbell

Starting point is 00:49:52 where they would start on one side and then... Two-hand under it? Yeah, anyhow, that's right. Two-hand anyhow. That's a great lift. I'm trying to think of the mighty Adam. I think it was this guy's name, and he was like a small dude. That was like super strong.

Starting point is 00:50:06 So really cool. You could find information on these guys and you know, train the way that they did. And like I said, there were no supplements. There were no steroids. And it was about competing. And who could lift more? Some of them developed bodybuilder like physiques

Starting point is 00:50:20 for the day like Eugene Sandow is the statue that you'll win for the Mr. Olympia. But some of them, we're just kind of thick. A lot of them, I mean, very impressive looking if you look at some of those old pictures. So I think, I think. I think considered Charles Atlas one of them. I know he was big in isometrics, but later.

Starting point is 00:50:37 Yeah, he was later on. Yeah, I think the question that probably Simon's trying to get at right now is like, how would you program? Because a lot of these are not traditional lifts where you fatigue a specific muscle and there's more things like bent press and Turkish get ups and these, how would you guys program that,

Starting point is 00:50:55 or do we have something that would look similar to that and you would just maybe exchange some of these exercises? Just like skills training, I would say, like even if, I know we kind of did this in our small kettlebell program that we did with the kettlebell for aesthetic where it was like you had days where it was just devoted to skills. You pick a certain type of a lift, you refine it, you don't put a lot of intensity around

Starting point is 00:51:15 it, but it's all about the frequency of the practicing. And so I would do that with, especially like a bent press, you know, any of these like real unique lifts, like you just need a lot of exposure to it. Honestly, the program that we have, that mimics old classic strong man type training, the most is actually Maps and a ball, especially Phase One. Even though the exercise is more traditional in there, like bench press and rows

Starting point is 00:51:38 and overhead press and squats, the way especially Phase One was laid out was heavily inspired by the way that they trained back in those days. Our map strong program is more on modern strongman training, also very effective. It'll also build incredible strength. But the principles that I gave you is really what you want to kind of stick to with your training.

Starting point is 00:51:59 Do you have any of our programs, by the way, Simon? No, I got nothing. I just kind of recently started listening to all. So I'm just kind of Yeah, I say starting with starting with anabolic. Absolutely. And he's anabolic. So he has that so you can see kind of how it's laid out. And then even though he's looking at really, really old man, so I think strong would be a potential one for you to go into. I think strong and performance because performance is so movement focused and performance because performance is so movement focused that even though performance is more about modern athletics, it's going to make you better if you want to practice

Starting point is 00:52:30 odd lifts. You know, so I would say anabolic to start with and then you got strong and performance later on. Probably pretty good. Does that help answer your question a little bit? Yeah, just because like what I'm doing right now is with that full body stuff. I'm doing like every like one each body part gets an exercise and I do three of those and sometimes that goes for a whole hour More so I'm just like I made it up on the spot just kind of like but I listen to y'all and looking up stuff

Starting point is 00:52:56 But I don't know like it's been working, but I don't know if it's the greatest thing So it's working because you've got the big rocks out of the way. What you just said is really basic, but fundamental. But Maps and Obolic is, I think you'll get blown away by the results you get from that program because it's much more specifically, you know, program. So we'll send that over to you Simon, follow that. Oh, sweet. Yeah, and then, then, dinosaur training,

Starting point is 00:53:19 check out that book on, you could buy that on Amazon, I think. It's got some pretty cool stuff. Okay, I'll look up there and start training then. All right, cool. Thanks for calling in. We thank you so much. You got it. Yeah, I remember when I discovered like the old books

Starting point is 00:53:36 of the way that they used to, oh, I forgot to tell them. They did lots of grip training, forgot to say that. Oh yeah. You know, when I found those old books, it was like, you know what I felt like? You know in the movies when they're like looking for like an ancient those old books, it was like, you know what I felt like? You know in the movies when they're like looking for like an ancient book with wisdom and it's like, I felt like that, like I opened them and I'm like,

Starting point is 00:53:51 oh my God, this is so... All these secrets. All these, like we forgot. It's funny, I felt like you came to that place through a different pathway, but I came there through unconventional interests. So I was into all the unconventional lives and then it just kind of like traces it back

Starting point is 00:54:06 to some of those old times strong men who would perform these feats of strength and hold like benches of people over there. And you know, cool shit like that. Like I was always into that. I wonder if there's a big enough need in our audience to actually write something like that. Because we, I mean, I know we have things that like,

Starting point is 00:54:22 maps old time, like old time, is literally like all those lifts, forget anything else have things that like you said, maps old time, like old time, but it's literally like all those lifts, forget anything else, it's like literally designed. Bro, that would be so fun to ride. I love it. I would do it. I don't know if there'd be a market demand for it. Yeah, I don't know if there's enough of a demand for it.

Starting point is 00:54:34 It's the first time we've ever had somebody call in and actually specifically want something just like that. It would be fun to ride. And I just think there's tried to sprinkle a little bits of it in though. I know, I was like thinking of all the program, I'm like, well, we have put this there, but I'm like, damn, that's like in bits of it in. I know that's I was like thinking of all the program like well we have put this there But I'm like, Dan that's like in that one and then we have that in performance

Starting point is 00:54:48 It's like we have bits of all that stuff in different programs But we haven't like written one that's just for that. I mean if you look at some of the pictures of these guys Like Doug, I don't know if you could look up George Hackensmith But if you look at some of the pictures of these guys from back then and you and you're really impressive And then you realize like they had full-time jobs They probably worked manually. They weren't dying, they weren't dying to be lean. They didn't do any, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:55:09 it wasn't even important to them. And you know, it was like a past time that they would do. They didn't take supplements and you look at these guys, you're like, whole, and then you hear the feats of strength. Like, I think Eugene Sandow did a bent press with 300 pounds. Click on that top left one, Doug. I mean, look, first of all, he's a beast. Look at this guy. I mean, he just, he looks like a bent press with 300 pounds. Click on that top left one, Doug. I mean, look, first of all, he's a beast.

Starting point is 00:55:25 Look at this guy. I mean, he just, he looks at a moose. Look at the size of the guy's neck. You ain't all shredded, but he's a beast. I mean, just, you know, like I said, the feets of strength are just so impressive. Next color is Jeff from California. What's up, Jeff?

Starting point is 00:55:41 How can we help you? Hey, hey, I just want to say thank you to Permit, Pudge you to RIPT, the dazzled badge, and the Doug. You know listening for a while. You went back to the old. Well, I started listening to the Bat-Soup disease time, but I've listened to so many that I've had to go disease time, but I've listened to so many that I've had to go dig deep in the old ones. I like Jeff a lot already here. You're a good man. So my question is, I wouldn't got my testosterone and everything tested and it came out to like 360, which I thought was pretty low.

Starting point is 00:56:27 And before I went and did like TRT or whatever, I want to ask you guys what you thought about supplementing for this before I go to the TRT route. Specifically, like, what is it? I'm going to screw these names up so bad, but like Long Jack or Tonk, Kat Ali. Yeah, Tonk, Kat Ali. And yeah, Fenyu Greek, Fugoui or Fugoua, Grestisis, Shila, G, supplements like that. What am I going to get the most benefit from for raising my testosterone? Because I want to, I want to perform my best, just like anybody else. Okay, so all the ones you mentioned have some clinical evidence. I've actually used all of them, but before we get to supplements,

Starting point is 00:57:26 there's a couple of questions I have. Do you know what your baseline total testosterone was before another words? You said it was, it sounds like total testosterone 390 something now. Do you know what it was when you were, let's say in your early 30s or anything like that? I don't, this is the first time I've ever checked it, and it came out that's 360 or 360 one or something like that and

Starting point is 00:57:46 And oh, and I wanted to add it like you know my sleep is good my diet's good my proteins by take ashwagand every day You know, I'm like like I said I've been listening to long long enough to where I've checked all those boxes and Yeah, just when I got the total testosterone of 360L, I was like, a lot of seems pretty damn low. And, and, yeah, I just feel like I've, I've kind of hit like a wall with training and everything. And I've done, I started with performance because I'm a carburetor rock climber, so that's the most logical.

Starting point is 00:58:28 And then I went on to aesthetics and then I did it about like non-backup performance. And all the weights that I started with prior with performance, I'm doing the same weight and it doesn't feel like I'm able to increase. Like I'm not maybe getting stronger. Did you notice any like recent changes in energy strength in libido? Or is this, do you feel like you've just got low testosterone now? If you look back, are you able to make that speculation? I would say it's probably been the same, maybe.

Starting point is 00:59:01 So here's a tough thing with, now your total testosterone is definitely on the lower end of what would be the scale that they would use as a reference, especially for a guy with good diet and lifting too. Yes, the challenge is this is that it's usually, you know, if it gets really low, then that's different. But if it's low plus symptoms, we don't know what your baseline was,

Starting point is 00:59:22 so that can make it difficult to judge. And also, androgen receptor density plays a bigger role than total testosterone. So they did this study on men to see how much testosterone plays a role in building muscle. And they had some men with like 500, some men with 900, you know, total. And the men with higher Androgen receptor density had a bigger impact, meaning more available Androgens. So just testosterone level is alone, it's kind of hard to read unless it gets too low. And, but if it's accompanied by symptoms,

Starting point is 00:59:52 then you kind of want to look at that. Now, supplements can help, but it's not going to make typically a huge impact. There's a company that we just had somebody on the show talking about testosterone boosters and You can find online stronger by science. He works with a company called Joy Mode and he Went through their products and basically approved, you know, whatever they're selling or not or and help them formulate it So I trust his opinion because he's one of the go-to guys so Joy Mode I think would have a good testosterone booster

Starting point is 01:00:22 But you know, what's that gonna do? 30% raise, maybe 20%, 30%. So it's not gonna make this huge boost. So you could try the supplement. You could also test to see if you have any nutrient deficiencies. Like vitamin D or zinc. Although joy mode, I believe, has zinc in it and some other nutrients that sometimes are low in men that can make a big impact.

Starting point is 01:00:43 So I would take it for 30 to 60 days. I would make sure I got really good sleep. I would reduce my volume and intensity with my training and then get retested, see where you're at. And if it's not that much higher, then you could talk to a hormone specialist. And there's two routes. One is to go exogenous testosterone.

Starting point is 01:00:59 The other is to try medications to boost your testosterone, then to see if it'll stay that way. Like HCG. Yeah So like HCG. Yeah, like HCG. I mean, he's really, where you're at, Jeff, is actually really somewhere to where I was at, not that long ago, right? So he's similar in age.

Starting point is 01:01:15 Naturally, mine was actually two something, so I was a little bit lower than you were. I did all the Oshwagana, I did the Tunkat Ali, I did the, I did all that stuff. And I did feel a little bit a little bit better from it, not very much though, not like where I had felt in my like 20s and early 30s. And so I did that for almost a year trying to bring it up naturally. And I felt like I made a little bit of a movement in the Salis Point, like I felt like I got

Starting point is 01:01:41 a little bit better, but it still didn't feel like I used to feel like. And that's what made me go eventually to TRT and then of course, once I got on TRT, it was a game changer. I think a lot of times two people, especially in the competitive bodybuilding, lifting world, like they say TRT and then they're on these crazy, super physiological doses where you don't need that much. Like I take a very mild dose, but it makes me feel absolutely amazing.

Starting point is 01:02:09 And so if you've exhausted all your resources as far as like trying to do it naturally and you've been consistently doing that and you feel like diets and checks, leaps and check, I mean, you're a classic example of somebody that I would push in the direction of our MP hormones. I would go that route and at least get a consultation by the doctor and have him talk to you. Blood work done. Yeah, because you're over 40, you've got kids already.

Starting point is 01:02:32 Like you're in that age group where if TRT is what you need, then it's all good. You're not, versus like you're in your 20s, you don't have kids, you know, that can be a little bit more of a risk. Yeah, we just had somebody the other day that was like 27 and actually said kind of the same thing. And we actually pushed him over to Cabral and said, go do all this testing first.

Starting point is 01:02:51 Like I would be more pursuing that young. Yeah, but at 41 and healthy and eating right and sleeping right. Yeah, I would do like 60 days, Jeff, of trying some of the test boosters, making sure that you drop your volume, you're eating adequate calories, that your drop your volume, you're eating adequate calories, that your sleep is good, you're getting sunlight,

Starting point is 01:03:09 doing all this stuff, and then see how much it changes if at all, and then from there, and you could work with the doctors at mphormones.com throughout this process, and then you can get tested again, and then you could try, like if you don't wanna go on test off-shrown, you could try, you know, and this again, this is with doctors, approval and supervision, but I think they do like,

Starting point is 01:03:30 clomate and HCG, and sometimes that does it. And then guys testosterone's up, and then they can maintain it. And other times, they need to go on testosterone. So it's not as easy as like, you know, just do this. You know, I think there's a step-by-step process. Right. Unless you just wanna go on testosterone, cause you're like, I don't wanna I think there's a step-by-step process. Right. Unless you just want to go on testosterone because I don't want to try all that and I just

Starting point is 01:03:48 want to feel better, in which case, again, you could tell the doctors at mphormones.com. Yeah. As far as the supplements and of course the Eric Trexler recommendation. Do I just try any of these or specific ones or just kind of keep it simple? So the company that he specifically works with is Joey mode and their website dugroder up. It's usejoymo.com forward slash mind pump and then you if they have a testosterone booster there that he designed Just try that one. Yeah, try it and then get another test And then see if you know what kind of an impact it has and most importantly how you feel to be honest with you

Starting point is 01:04:35 Yeah, one of the things I've learned from the doctors from all the testing back and forth I've done as he's like, you know, you can sometimes see somebody who their numbers will elevate to say four say we bring yours up to 450 but if you still feel, you know, like your energy levels low, your strength is down, you're like, if the symptoms are still there, he would say that you're still considered low because it's such a wide range. So really how you feel where you're at, that's what I would be trying to judge that more than actually a number, right? Because you might even be able to take these supplements and get it up to say 450, but if 450 doesn't make you feel good, then I still think you're a potential candidate for

Starting point is 01:05:15 this. And honestly, the thing that would make the biggest impact supplement wise would be a nutrient deficiency that you filled. So if your zinc is low and then you take zinc, you'll see a big boost in testosterone. Same thing with other, you know, other de-nutrients, right? So, and I know, I know Joy Mode has those, like boron zinc, I think it has in there as well, which if those are low, magnesium, I think. So I would, you know, you could try it, and then if it fills a nutrient gap within 45 to 60 days

Starting point is 01:05:45 You should feel and see a pretty a pretty big difference if not Then like I said you could go the other route and kind of because you're in that age group now where you know it would make sense and the The health benefits of taking exogenous testosterone to get you in a mid to high level versus being low is far out With outweighs the risks of taking testosterone and all that stuff. So, you know, there's a myth around that. And if your testosterone's low, there's a lot of health risks associated with that. So, but that's right. Right. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:06:16 You know, one last idea, and since we didn't give you anything, Jeff, I want to send you maps 15. And this was something that kind of blew me away a little bit. And you might be this guy because you look like you're really fit. You probably trained pretty hard. You also are construction workers. So you're doing maybe even scaling back a little bit on the amount of volume you're training. You see what happens. Yeah. And just see what happens. You might see it. And like, and so I'm going to send it to you for free. And for fun, maybe run it for a month while you're doing, like why you're month while you're doing some of these things

Starting point is 01:06:47 and see how that makes you feel. I was blown away by how much kind of reducing my volume of training was made a big difference. So that considering you have kids, you're a construction worker, and on top of that you live pretty intensely. That may make a difference too. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:05 I'll tell you what Jeff, just to give you some hope, I've had several clients in this situation in the past. There's one guy in particular, remember, he seemed to be doing everything right and we scaled his volume way down. We had him supplement with nutrients that if he had a deficiency, you know, could cause a problem. His testosterone went from the 200s to the 700s. Okay, so that was a dramatic difference. Now, the reason why it went so high is because he had some nutrient deficiencies and he was over trained, he just didn't realize it.

Starting point is 01:07:31 And once we made those changes, it was a huge swing in his testosterone. So I've seen numbers dramatically change when there's a real reason to it being low in the first place. So just give you some hope, because sometimes that can happen. Okay, yeah, yeah, I definitely like fall the programs to a tee. And so it's, you know, it could be a lot of volume

Starting point is 01:07:53 on top of what I'm already doing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'll try out that at 15, see how that runs. You got, how old are your kids, by the way? Seven and nine. Okay, that's a good age. I wasn't gonna say if you had teenagers, maybe that's why you're too stiltsy. I me free. Pull your hair out. Yeah, and I just

Starting point is 01:08:11 want to be, I want to just kick ass, take names, you know, but everything that I do, so, you know, I'm going to try and optimize that's all. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for calling in, Jeff. Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Thank you. Yeah, great suggestion, Adam. Yeah, you know, I just I mean, it's experienced as I am, yeah, you know, I just, I was just, I mean, it's experienced as I am, knowledgeable, quote unquote, I am as well. I constantly, slowly over train, like little by little, I bring myself to the,

Starting point is 01:08:33 well, I know, I mean, I'm looking at too, like he's got, you could see, he's got the forums and show, like he's a buff, he's got some bases. Yeah, yeah, so he's definitely a serious lifter and probably been doing kissing, and I'm like, and then I start thinking, oh, you know what kids, low tests a little bit, he's doing all, you know what, maybe the dude's just doing,

Starting point is 01:08:47 maybe the combination of a slight nutrient deficiency combined with a lot of volume of training. Over to the overt training. Yeah, with all of it. And just so that potentially, now that being said, you know, I know that we are, we're trying to be as politically correct and we don't ever want to come off like we're,

Starting point is 01:09:07 you know, pushing people to go take, you know, testosterone we should we will always be balanced. Yeah, we'll always stand by that going the natural offers, but I will say this, he's a classic example of if he was my friend and we were off air like and I knew that he would I would have just said bro go, go, go probably look into the HRT route and talk to the doctor. It's one of those things that, especially as you get older as a man, the health benefits far outweigh the risk, and it's a low risk hormone when you use properly.

Starting point is 01:09:37 That's what people don't realize. And that's what I mean, but I mean, there's still a little bit of a stigma around it that I know that if we on this podcast with all the people that are listening, if we were to say something, oh, go get your hair, your hair, oh, freak out, right? But it's like, it's safer than thyroid. And if you have a little thyroid, they'll put you on thyroid, no problem.

Starting point is 01:09:53 It's safer than estrogen or progesterone, women take birth control of time. It's a low risk hormone when you use the appropriately in the right context. I want to say that too, because obviously you can use it the wrong way in the wrong context. It's just, it's got this strange stigma, but the studies will show and men, when they're low, risk of cancer goes up, the risk of heart disease goes up, dementia goes up, and then when you bring it up to healthy levels, all those things drop. So it's like, you know, if you try all the stuff and it doesn't work naturally, it's almost a no-brainer.

Starting point is 01:10:22 And he's at the right age in his life, too, I feel like. We just had a call either day by like a 27-year-old, and he's at the right age in his life too, I feel like. We just had a call either day by a 27 year old, and that person I'd be way more staunch. Totally, you're too young to be feeling all this stuff, bro. Yeah, something's going on. Yeah, something else is going on. Let's get to the bottom of that first

Starting point is 01:10:37 before you decide to jump to that. This guy's like, I've done this, I've been listening to the show forever, I've been taking an Oscar Claw on every day, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I'm like, okay, well, you might be a great candidate for this, and it could be life changing for you to get on that.

Starting point is 01:10:49 Yep. Our next caller is Ali from Georgia. Hey Ali, how can we help you? Hey guys, as everyone always says, long time fan, big listener, so that's why my question comes with some hesitation and nervous because I do know better as a fan and someone with a fitness background.

Starting point is 01:11:12 But essentially, I wanna paint a picture for you. I am 17 weeks into an 18 week bodybuilding prep. I am, it's my very first show. So I've been self-coached my whole life and then got a coat last year. And I've been prepping with her and built up in the off season to over 2,500 calories, got into a really good position with cardio and all that. But I'm 10 days out and I found myself in two hours of cardio a day, barely scratching

Starting point is 01:11:49 over a thousand calories, really low fat. So I know from like my hormonal profile that's impacting me as a woman. And truthfully, I'm realized I'm into deep and I'm in a position where I want to come out post show and absolutely do this again I love bodybuilding love how much fun I've had But I want to be able to Two things get out of this cardio hole. I'm in and out of while getting out of this deficit but at the same time Optimizing how much muscle I can gain in the offseason so coming out of this deficit, but at the same time, optimizing how much muscle

Starting point is 01:12:26 I can gain in the off season. So coming out of this, and I hear a lot of horror stories about people getting out of prep and just really not going well, especially when you get in a bad position. So even though I've known better, I have found myself in a really poor position. So I was curious, how can I coach

Starting point is 01:12:48 myself out of this? How can I safely and effectively get out of this deficit as quickly as possible, minimizing fat gain and optimizing muscle gain? Yeah, well, this is just like the perfect client for you, Adam. Well, exactly what we've worked with. Yeah, so obviously we're going to finish because you're what only would you say 10 days out or whatever from the show. The biggest thing that you need to worry about or that you need to be focused on is that first week as you come out because the temptation to want to just, because you work so hard

Starting point is 01:13:23 to get where you're at. So I totally get like the afterwards, like, ah, finally, I go have my cheat meal or my cheat day and then you go kind of, and it real quickly, that sneaks up. And so you're gonna have to, unfortunately, almost pretend like you're still in prep mode for the next four plus weeks afterwards.

Starting point is 01:13:43 I mean, if you really wanna come out of this successfully because of how big of a hole we've kind of dug ourselves in as far as the calorie deficit, how low the calories are, how much training you're doing. And you're, you're, you basically want to reverse out the way you win it. Now, I don't think it's going to take a full 16 to 18 weeks to get out of there. Hopefully because you're young, you're healthy, you're strong, you've been training, you actually sound pretty good for somebody who's torturing herself that bad right now. Some people look and sound like they are walking death in this position. But yeah, so I would creep out.

Starting point is 01:14:20 So, if you're at peak right now, two hours of, and you're as low as a thousand calories a day, then the day after my show, I'm gonna slowly pull back. I'm gonna go from two hours to maybe an hour cardio. And it's mostly, it looks like incline walking, so it's not like you're doing hardcore intense cardio. Am I reading that correctly? Just to pull the inflammation out of the legs, I'm doing all inclined walking,

Starting point is 01:14:47 keeping it easy to recover from. Okay, yeah, so I would just, I would cut that back, and then I would just barely increase calories, which like I said, it's gonna be difficult. I mean, I might allow you right after the show, to fill back in, to have a nice afternoon, to evening of eat, so you don't feel like you're continuing.

Starting point is 01:15:05 But then the very next day, I'd say we'd be, if you're a thousand, 40 calories you're at right now, I'm not letting you go much over 1,200 to 1,300 at first and also reduce the hour cardio. And then I'd probably keep you in a place like that for a week to two weeks until you give me feedback. And then I'd want to also, again, increase a little bit more calories, cut back a little bit again

Starting point is 01:15:26 on the cardio, maybe cut down to a half hour of it. And then just, and I would just be inching you up by about a hundred calories to 200 calories while also kind of scaling back the amount of cardio you're doing. And then if you're doing, how many days a week are you lifting? I'm sorry, I'm reading your question at the same time. I was done lifting six days a week on a body parts foot.

Starting point is 01:15:49 Okay, so I would potentially reduce that down to a map, Santa Ballet type of a program also, but these would be phases, so it would be like one to two weeks, we would make this change where we add a little bit of calories, reduce some of the cardio, get pay attention, make sure we're not like blowing up, which you shouldn't. Your body's probably going to thank you for peeling back a little bit and so hopefully it starts to respond the way.

Starting point is 01:16:14 And so long as you're not putting on weight rapidly, obviously you're going to put on some water weight right after the show and so that's totally normal. But I mean consistently putting on body fat, I would just be trying to inch you up about 200 calories. Is there a number of pounds that you'd be mounted like, is it okay to gain like two pounds a week or three pounds a week? Yeah, I mean, so obviously you're probably going to see an initial eight to ten right after the show because of water and everything like that. Water and carbohydrates coming back in.

Starting point is 01:16:39 So that, that, that, first initial, I'm not that worried about. It's the consistently after that. And I'd be okay with adding two pounds a week. That's, that's pointy fine. But the goal really would be to kind of hover around the same way. I actually would be trying to keep you, if I saw two pounds, then I might go, okay, let's kind of keep your calories and cardio words at now. Let's see what it does next week and see if it kind of slows down levels off. Okay, now let's go up again. So you're, you're you're really, you're pretty much just doing the opposite of what you did going into it.

Starting point is 01:17:08 I just think that you could probably get back up to a healthier calorie intake before 18 weeks. I don't think you're gonna need to do it as slow. So long as we didn't do too much damage, right? So if the body didn't, you know, and again, from what I hear from you right now, you sound okay. But this is a There isn't like a protocol. It's like this was client by client

Starting point is 01:17:29 I've done this with so many different ladies that some of my clients like within like three weeks We're back up to 2400 calories and you're doing little to no cardio And you've actually you know put on very little body fat and you feel amazing like So if your metabolism is still in a pretty good position, you could potentially rebound like that and be totally fine. But it would really be the communication with you and I back and forth. Are you in our private forum by chance?

Starting point is 01:17:58 So I'm gonna have Doug put you in the private forum. Also, Maps Antibolic is the way I would go training protocol wise, and then it would do you well to go to performance and then aesthetic again. So I think if you haven't ran that program for which is a very bodybuilding focused, that would be the order of what our training protocol would look like to be your offseason to get ready for prep again. I literally have zero to add to that. Adam's one of the best in the business when it comes to reverse dieting. But I will ask this question, Ali, because you mentioned this maybe two or three times

Starting point is 01:18:32 with your question, which was, I know better. I know better, I know better. So my only question for you is why, why are you doing, or why are you going against what you know to be the right thing to do? What's driving that? For me, it was the comparison track. I'm in a couple private forums with other girls to have harder protocols.

Starting point is 01:18:55 When I got into the reminds me not that bad and very laser focused on, you know, I'm a very test oriented person. That's probably why I was drawn to this. So turning off the boxes really gave me a lot of fulfillment. And it was that comparison. Like, even though I know better, and I was talking to one of my girlfriends this morning, like, they're going to razz me up because I know better. And that's why I was nervous to speak with you guys. But I did. I compared myself to like bikini athletes, and I compete in figure. So, you know, I am a little bit bigger.

Starting point is 01:19:29 So my deficit is probably just as significant. Yeah. You know, first, I'm not gonna razz you because I know better. I do a lot of shit that I know I shouldn't do and I know better too. This is a challenge for everybody. It makes you human.

Starting point is 01:19:42 And then those of us who really have a passion for fitness actually struggle with this more than anybody else in our space because we love it so much, probably border fanaticism, sometimes driven by insecurities, oftentimes I should say. And so we often do a lot of things to ourselves that are detrimental, that really aren't helping us. And in fact, this is what helps me, okay?

Starting point is 01:20:07 Cause I know at the end of the day, I understand being healthy. I do value it, I have children that made a big difference having kids for me. But I also, it would be lying to myself if I didn't say that there's a piece of me that won't die, that just falls in love with lifting heavy and looking ripped, okay?

Starting point is 01:20:22 So the way that I sometimes convince myself is reminding myself that I'll look better if I do what's right for me. And that's true. So the truth is doing what's right for you, you'll actually get a better physique than going against what you know to be better. So the advice we give is not,

Starting point is 01:20:38 hey, do what we say, it's better for you, you're not gonna look as good. The reality is if you do this and you do it right, you'll look better. So when you're in those positions, where you're like, oh man, this ego or whatever it is, whatever you wanna call it, it's still long at me and I know better, remind yourself,

Starting point is 01:20:52 I'll actually look better if I do this the right way. Yeah, I wanna piggyback off of that too. So when you get in this forum, please I get in there and introduce yourself and say hi. There's quite a few competitors that are in this forum and there's actually a couple girls that I've actually coached for a show in there who were in very similar, I got them

Starting point is 01:21:09 in very similar situations as you are and they'll share with you about stories of like Adam putting me through a prep and actually us going and competing and not even having to do cardio. So there is a, and I can tell by your shoulders and your traps that you've got some muscle mass on you. So I know that I should have you in it. And if you say you're a figure and you're already like a thicker body type, you probably

Starting point is 01:21:33 should be up north of 25, 2400 calories with doing no cardio and maintaining a very lean physique. And in a perfect world, I could get you up on stage and we never have to go below, say 1500 calories. I mean, that's, that, that stage and we never have to go below say 1500 calories. I mean, that's, to me, that would be our goal. Like if we were working together and you said, hey, I wanna keep doing this at him, but let's do the goal would be

Starting point is 01:21:54 and you wouldn't have to do that long of a prep. So I took a lot of girls that used to do these 18, you know, 16, 18 week long preps and prep them in eight weeks. Because if I do a good job in the off season of not allowing your body fat to get out of control and we only need to shred down four to six percent to get you stage ready, that's six to eight weeks.

Starting point is 01:22:15 I mean, I can do that in six, especially if we've done a good job of phasing cardio out, building the metabolism up to where you're burning a lot of calories, you're eating a lot of calories. And you're looking better. Yeah, no, yeah, you'll look better, you'll feel better and not have to go so aggressive with the core deficit.

Starting point is 01:22:30 You know what's saving you right now, Ali? I can tell, what's saving you is you actually, besides your work ethic and consistency and all that stuff, you have really good muscle building genetics. I would argue that you probably, either were an athlete or you always kind of knew that you were strong, stronger than your peers. Am I hitting the nail on the head?

Starting point is 01:22:47 Yes, obviously I've always been super strong and I'm the girl who takes up weights and puts on muscle. I know she doesn't exist, but that is my genetics. That is literally saving your ass right now. Like if you didn't have those genetics, you know how bad you'd be feeling right now and how much muscle you would've lost.

Starting point is 01:23:04 So it's like you're doing as well as you are in spite of all the bad, you know, wrong stuff that you're doing. So the good news is there's so much potential there that you're not even realizing. So once you get into into your body and do it the right way, like Adam's explaining, you're going to blow yourself away by how amazingly your body responds. And your metabolism is probably going to be more flexible and have a better rebound because of your muscle building genetics. So you're probably in a good position even though you've dug yourself a little bit of a hole. I'm very encouraging because I feel like I take myself out of my day-to-day where I met. And so I was like, well, I'm not even going to compete again until 2024. Like there's so much needs to get corrected and get back into a really good place. So I've

Starting point is 01:23:51 been still afraid of post-show, but I will share like a very optimistic, I feel like I'm not stuck, I'm not going to be bound to a crazy rebound. So this is, this is super encouraging and you know, really great to hear. No, you're going to, you're going to this is, this is super encouraging. You know, really great to hear. No, you're going to, you're going to be okay. You're getting the forum. Doug's going to send you over the, the programs I listed off. I'll make sure that, and I would love to see you follow in that, in that order. That's anabolic. We'll give you for free. Yeah. So anabolic, then performance and then aesthetic while we're also reversing out in the forum. Give me, make sure you give me feedback, let me know how you're doing

Starting point is 01:24:25 and so I can help you. And then hopefully you can hear, you'll hear some other of the testimonials of that of women that have actually trained either with me or done shows on their own. So definitely reach out and stay in touch with us. Awesome. Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you so much.

Starting point is 01:24:39 Everything you do is awesome. And now I'm in good hands. So thanks for taking on my question. I mean, so much. You got it. Thank you for taking my question. I mean so much. You got it. Thank you for calling out. Good luck. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:24:48 I tell you, what do you think, Adam? She's probably one of those, it sounds like one of those women. They have such good muscle bullying genetics. They can do the worst. Oh, I can tell. She's built just like Monique on my ex. I can tell that she's built. Be curious to see how, I don't know what her height is,

Starting point is 01:25:02 but my ex walked around at 165. Lean, yeah, like lean year around. And then first she got, she'd hit the stage at high 140s to 150s as a figure competitor. And she had the shoulders and traps just like her. She's built like her. And I will say that was one of her biggest challenges. She put on muscle really easy, but then when it came down to cutting, she had a really hard time and her coach used to push her like this, used to put her super, super low.

Starting point is 01:25:29 And you know, she never did a really good job of building her metabolism off in the Aussies. And this was long before I was coaching her, I ever competed so I kind of stayed away from it. And you know, I never really trained my girlfriends. That was always, so I let somebody else, but I remember always constantly questioning, like, why is he got you doing this?

Starting point is 01:25:47 Why are you doing that? Like, are you sure? Are you sure? So, yeah, no, I mean, that's, she's got that benefit of that. I also bet you that she's, she's overdoing it too, just the training. Like, at MapsHarmes,

Starting point is 01:25:58 I was a cardio six days a week. Yeah, 1000 calories. And the fact that she built muscles so easily, I mean, just her doing Maps and a Ball Protocol, she's gonna build muscle like crazy, and that would would be the goal is just following anabolic protocol and Slowly increase calories. Let's see if we can get these calories up to 3000 plus which is where my ex after she went through this Whole process and then started to work on the she got up to that place where her and I were like eating the same amount of calories Every day and she was still able to stay lean

Starting point is 01:26:24 So I definitely think that she can get there. When your girlfriend builds more muscle than you do, that's tough. Yes, it is. That's a hard one. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

Starting point is 01:26:37 and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps for performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having sour, animal, and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee and you can get

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