Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1950: Shoulder Building Masterclass

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin cover what it takes to build impressive shoulders. One of the most aesthetic and functional muscles in the body is the shoulders. (1:24) The anatomy and actions of the shoulder. (4:29) Why shoulder injuries are the most common in the upper body. (7:10) Form and technique. (8:25) The best rep ranges to train and build the shoulders in. (12:28) The best exercises to build amazing/functional shoulders. (17:21) How no exercise is dangerous if performed with proper technique and form. (22:32) If you want to prioritize your shoulders, do those exercises FIRST! (29:35) The three major exercise categories of the shoulders and how to build them into your routine. (30:50) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Kreatures of Habit: Meal One for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MP25 at checkout** Special Promotion: Shoulder Building MOD 50% off! **Code SHOULDERS at checkout** 3 Best Exercises For All 3 Parts of The Shoulder Grow Your Shoulders With The Rear Delt Cable Fly Best Exercises for Strong Shoulders (UNCONVENTIONAL STRENGTH) | MIND PUMP How To Behind The Neck Press Properly! (ADVANCED LIFTERS ONLY!) What are the Best Mobility Exercises for Shoulders? - Mind Pump Blog Z Press to take Your Shoulder Development to the Next Level Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode all about developing amazing shoulders. We talk about the shoulders, their function, exercises, reps, sets, the whole deal.

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find the shoulder mod, and then use the code shoulders for 50% off. Here comes the show. One of the most aesthetic and functional muscles of the body. One of the muscles that are probably one of the most important muscles of the body, especially the upper body, is the shoulders. Today's episode we're gonna go all about,

or talk all about the shoulders, where they are, what they do, what they're the best exercises, reps, sets, all that stuff. So this is the shoulders, the shoulder molders. This is my first, my first ever specific muscle that I attempted to like, program to develop,

meaning like, obviously when I was... To target. Yeah, like obviously when I was working out, I was trying to build my entire physique. Because of your shoulders? Yeah, it was because of the trainer. It was the female trainer that worked for me. She, so I was already in management by this time

and her name was Sabine. I'll never forget her. She was this German girl that was a competitor and she obviously had a great physique. She was about 10 or 15 years older than I was and I thought well, she would be a great person. Can she's in the competitive world that has a great physique to ask to critique my physique

and tell me what I need to work on. Now, in my head, I'm going like, is she gonna say the calves or legs or something? And I'm saying like that's for sure what I'm gonna get. So for some, I'm like prepared for that. You do that, you just wanna take a shirt off. She was like, oh no, I don't know, I don't know. I don't like that.

What about this? And she tells me that I have weak shoulders. She's the words we had. She said to her, we, wow. Yeah, she said to your shoulders are really weak. I was so insulted. But at the same time, not aware. I honestly, if you would have asked me, I would have said, oh, she's going to say my calves

or my legs or something like that, that are out of balance. That's what I was ready to hear from her, but when she told me that my shoulders were weak, I was like, I felt so insulted, but also very motivated. You know, the delts are interesting, because it's one of the most, I guess, versatile parts of the body.

You know, humans evolved to have these really versatile shoulders to be able to throw with accuracy, right? We're apex hunters. It's a complex system of joints and movement and muscle. And then from an aesthetic standpoint, here's where evolution plays a role, right? When you look at a body and you look at the upper body,

the shoulders put the body together, put the upper body together. Like really, if you have well developed everything, but not good shoulders, makes a huge difference. If you have well developed shoulders and your arms aren't that great, your chest isn't that great, you're that hub for your upper body. You still kind of look good. And I think it's because it's a message.

I did. This is what I didn't understand. I did not understand that before I she had communicated that to me. And up into that point, shoulders were kind of an afterthought in my program. My thought as a trainer even was every time I do bench press, I'm an afterthought in my program. And my thought as a trainer even was, every time I do bench press, I'm getting the front of my shoulders, every time I do rows, I'm getting the back of my shoulders. So everyone's, well, I threw some lateral raises

in the mix, but never really addressed my shoulders because I didn't think it made that big of a difference until she pointed that out. And then it wasn't until I actually went after it and developed them that I went, oh my God, what a huge difference. They're called the deltoids. And I believe it's named after the Greek letter

that looks like a triangle. Because if you look at the shoulders from an anatomy standpoint, it's this big round muscle and it attaches, there's lots of attachments, right? The clavicle, the acromium, the scapula, so it kind of goes all the way around. And it's got like lots of different functions. Now, it's from a muscle building perspective. When we think of the shoulders, we think of the front shoulder, the side shoulder, and the rear shoulder. That's usually what we talk about. The front delts, side delts, real

delts. But it's a little more complex than that. As far as actions are concerned, you're looking at adduction, either to the front, to the sides, or even to the rear. You're looking at this rear fly motion. You're looking at stabilization. And what's interesting about the shoulder, it's one of those areas that it comes along with another moving joint or part, the scapula. You really can't separate the deltoid from the scapula

because like try to raise your arm overhead without having your shoulder blade rotate out and you're not gonna go very far, right? Try doing a lateral raise or a front raise without the scapula being involved. It's like the hips. Same, same, same. Very similar, right?

Very similar. A femur in the pelvis, I thought. Yeah, very, very similar. So it's got like all these different functions. It's really important in almost every lift that you do. And as a result, we just think they look good, aesthetically speaking, they're a very important muscle and aesthetics typically follow importance, right?

So we like well-developed hips because that means you can run fast, you're pretty stable, nice, strong back because it means you can probably carry a lot of shoulders because you can probably throw far and defend yourself. So it's like one of those muscles, real important. And I used to tell this to female clients too, who want really nice looking arms.

They almost always what they really mean is they want nice looking shoulders. Yeah, yeah. They say arms really what it is is they want those delts. Because the delts is what gives them. Isn't that weird though? Because that's how I thought too. I mean, I train arms like crazy

because I wanted great arms and I actually didn't think shoulders. And then later on, completely laid off of doing buys and tries that I'd hit them so hard for so many years and started to focus on my shoulders. My arms actually shrink, but then I would get these compliments about how crazy my arms looked when my shoulders.

And just because it separates from the buy and the try. Well, just from a functional performance perspective, that was always the limit, limiter for me, was I would get into these big lifts and start really advancing, and then my shoulder would have some kind of impingement or some kind of problem that I had to work through, and then I would have to regress

and kind of build myself back up again. And so there was just constant stress from like every movement to upper body wise that I was placing my shoulders. Yeah, well, I mean, what it strength is its weakness, right? The shoulder's so versatile, right? I could lift it out, move it to the front, press it overhead, I could rotate my arm internally,

externally, I can combine all these different movements into like one big wide movement. But along with that, versatility comes potential for instability, right? Because when I'm lifting a weight in a linear way, straight up and down, right? Or straight out to the sides. My body has to, my shoulder has to stabilize,

so it doesn't do all the other stuff that it could possibly do. And so shoulder injuries are some of the most common injuries in the upper body with people who do strength training. It's gotta be one of the most common injuries in the upper body with people who do strength training. It's gotta be one of the most common injuries. And it's mainly because they train the shoulders without really regard for stabilization, without really regard for function.

Well, either that or they neglect shoulders and they get a really strong chest or it's overdominant. I mean, that was what was common with me too, is that it was my limiting factor was the strength and stability in my shoulders, but I was developing the chest in the back so much that it was that, that was, I was leaking strength and power

because of the lack of stability in there. And I think more than it is just not training stability in the shoulder, it's like just neglecting the shoulders all together. And so then they don't catch up to the chest and back. Yeah, now, now, form and technique is wise with exercise. This is true for all muscle groups,

a good, long range of motion, so long as it's appropriate, so long as you can control what you're doing with good stability is superior to a shorter range of motion. But it's so much more important for the shoulders because the tendency to shorten a range of motion with the shoulders, it seems to be so high. It's one of the areas like when you look at shoulder presses and raises and upright rows and flies and all these different shoulder movements, I can almost always see a shortened range of motion, almost always either at the full extension or all the way at the bottom. almost always, either at the full extension or all the way at the bottom.

You almost always see rotation being neglected. It's one of those muscles where I would say, I would have to say, it's one of more common muscle groups that people don't train through its fullest capacity. And that's, I think, what leads to a lot of these issues. Well, because there's so much movement potential from that joint, totally. You know, in comparison to a lot of other joints,

especially in the upper body. But yeah, yeah, to neglect any one of those movements is then to not present it as a priority in terms of the body maintaining that kind of strength and stability and control. And so you do lose access and it does diminish the way that it responds over time. How often would you guys say when clients would come to you

and complain of shoulder pain, that there isn't like a major injury or anything going on, it's more often just a weakness in their shoulder stability that you have to, and then you can address that and then I'll say, nine out of 10 times. Yep, nine out of 10 times.

In fact, in fact, out of the, at a nine out of 10 times where it's a weakness, out of that, I'd say it's 70% like a majority. I could alleviate the pain, not fix it completely, but show them significant reductions of pain in one session. Like it was actually, in fact,

I used to actually like hearing when someone came to me and said, hey, I'm thinking about hiring you, but I have this kind of shoulder pain. I almost used to like hearing that because it was something I knew that I oftentimes could like right away make them feel better. And they say, well, I can't do a push up because it hurts my shoulders.

And I'll say, well, where's it hurt? And it showed me. And I'd say, oh, okay, let's do a couple of these movements here. Let's do some priming. Now try doing a push up. Like, oh my God, the pain's gone. And it was such an easy way to convince somebody of my value

So it's all it was almost always that it was almost always some kind of a weakness or instability type issue and think of it This way the shoulders have tremendous capacity for strength But if the ability of the shoulder Supportive musculature Doesn't match with the stabilization then you actually raise your risk of injury quite high So what I mean by that is, you know, people can lift. I mean, there's people who've gotten really good at like overhead pressing, like tremendous amounts of weight. Well, there's all these other muscles that have to prevent my upper arm here from twisting and rotating

and moving out to the side and forward because of that joint is so versatile. And if those stabilizing muscles can't match the power, the raw power of what I'm trying to do, if I'm outside of form by half a degree, boom, I'm gonna hurt my shoulder. It takes barely anything then to kind of set it off. That's right, yeah. This is why like full range of motion and different types of movements,

it's like so much more important, I would say for the shoulders and almost any other muscle group. Yeah, and one thing I found like to the point I'm not using, it's full range was not using my rotation enough. And so I was like very dominant and just chest back movements, like Adam was talking about, and just trying to build strength and stability there.

However, it was just limiting the way that my shoulders were responding when there was any kind of a shift in the weight laterally or I wasn't able to then kind of adjust and control how it should because I wasn't going through those movements and it wasn't responding to help be that supporting cast. So once I started to figure that out and go through a lot more rotational movement in my shoulders, it was an immediate performance increase, which I thought was interesting. Yeah.

Now, let's talk about like rep ranges that you could train the shoulders in that work really well. I have some interesting anecdotes and speculation. I love your guys' opinion on. So wide ranges of range of works best for pretty much the whole body. So you'll build muscle in low rep ranges, as low the whole body. So you'll build muscle and low rep ranges as low as one rep and you'll build muscle with high rep ranges. Let's say it's high as like 20 reps, okay. So they all build muscle and your body will adapt to one if you train

too long and you got to move out of it. But I found the shoulders, they seem to respond really well to higher reps. It's one of those muscles where, oh, that's interesting. You say that because I was going to make the case that when I think of, then this is obviously my own personal experience. My shoulders, I think, are the one thing on my body that actually responds really well to all rep ranges equally. Like I've seen tremendous gains by moving into the high rep range, superset way of training.

I saw tremendous gains when I went down to like doing single push presses and things like that and like doing cleans. Like so I have seen in comparison, if I look at my buys and tries, high reps for sure doesn't respond as well, low reps. The my chest really respond my back and my legs really respond low rep range.

Oh my God, they grew the most when I was doing loading, really, really heavy and still also high, but not as much. My shoulders, my experience, I have seen that all rep ranges, they really responded. Well here, let me, let me rephrase it, Adam, because like what muscle group do you, do responds best to things like drop sets,

strip sets, run the rack? I feel like it's my show, for me it's been shoulders. Like if I'm going to utilize them, like some kind of a technique where I'm doing lots of super sets, lots of reps get a crazy pump, I feel like my shoulders seem to respond better, and I've seen this with clients. Now, I'm not saying that all the rep ranges are valuable,

but I just seem to see, I think it has to do with the stabilization involved with the high reps in the stamina that's required of the stabilizers. I don't know, I don't know if it's just me. Yeah, I mean, I would make that case in my buys and tries got really good results from stuff like that. I did a lot of drives. do a smaller muscle world to your point

I guess to like I mean they're involved with so many movements So I would think that like they're Stamina capacity would be greater You know than some of the other single joint muscles. Well, I mean think about it this way like you work your chest You work your back. You're working your shoulder exactly. So when you a shoulder day, that's not the only day you're hitting your shoulders, you're hitting them quite a bit. Yeah, it's almost like a forearm. It's almost like a forearm.

That would also make the case though why they would be more likely to be adapted to higher volume than to, than to, uh, maybe they just take more punishment. Maybe that's why. Well, maybe that's what I mean, I, I honestly, again, and then I'm sure there's somebody who's listening who's just like, oh, I have stubborn shoulders, I have, because I've had clients that have said that they have stubborn shoulders. But when I went from that being a, a weak point on my physique to being actually a strength of mine in a relatively short period of my life, like it, not like it was like overnight,

but I mean, a year or two of really putting energy and effort towards that, it went from being something that was pointed out by a physique competitor that, okay, that's your weakness to this is something that when I got into competing that judges would highlight is, oh, you have great shoulders and like it pulled my back and everything else together. So I responded really well. Where I haven't had that experience with a lot of muscles. My chest was stubborn for most of my life.

My back resulted pretty decent. I think I saw some pretty good growth there. Legs were stubborn, calves have been stubborn, arms were even stubborn, even though that was a strength of mine. I hammered this shit out of them to get that point. So shoulders were probably one of the muscles I felt like when I put effort in all the rep ranges,

I seem to get good growth. Yeah, I mean, I get, I mean, the bottom line is all the rep ranges are gonna be valuable. Now, I don't think they're appropriate for every exercise. We'll get into exercises, but in other words, some rep ranges are better for some exercises than others. But like all body parts, you're going to want to train in all the different

rep ranges. And ideally, what you'll want to do is stay in a particular rep range for at least a few weeks, at least three to four weeks. Get yourself in the groove, get yourself in the feeling of like lifting heavy or in the feeling of lifting light with higher reps. So that by the second or third week, you're really doing it the right way. And then before your body adapts to the point

where it really stops responding, you switch to a new rep range. Yeah, I, I, the point of me sharing that more than anything else was actually don't, don't shy away from, from utilizing all the right, even down to singles. Like, I found like the push press was a really cool exercise and hang cleans were a really cool exercise for me to incorporate

me with, incorporate with one to two to three wraps, which there's not a lot of exercises like that for a muscle that is as small as the shoulders. And I saw my shoulders blow up from some of that. So if you don't do low wraps, I would encourage somebody to actually utilize it. And then obviously if you don't do super setting, run the racks, the drop sets,

the high volume type of training for your shoulders, you absolutely have to do that because I think they respond to both really well. Well, let's talk about some exercises. Because what's interesting to too about the shoulders is, I don't know, maybe you see this with legs with some stuff, but with the shoulders, there's like a lot of exercises you're not supposed to do.

Like the dangerous ones. Don't do that. Behind the back of your neck press. Yeah, don't do that. That's bad for your shoulders or that could possibly hurt you. So I think we should talk about those too. But let's talk about,

I guess to start with our first, like our favorite exercises. My favorite shoulder exercises, the basic standing overhead barbell press. It's my number one, but a close second would be a kettlebell press. The kettlebell press, I really didn't do a lot until I became an adult in my 30s, and that's the said, I never really practiced them, but when I did do them, the range of motion with a kettlebell so wide, because you come all the way down, and because it involves rotation with the arm, that I got good, like, this good wide range of motion, strength training from the kettlebell. So, I think it's more complete than the barbell,

but the barbell did build the most muscle mass. Yeah, I mean, I would say kettlebell pressed for me mainly with the spiraling rotation involved just because it feels very natural in the way that I would assume to raise my arm up over my head. I wouldn't just do it robotically like this. If I was to grab something overhead, you get that immediate rotation right away to reach. And so I felt like it mapped and patterned what your body's natural physiology. All for strength. It would be the for strength that would be the most optimal in keeping, keeping a load

close and centered to your body. You're always going to be able to, to load more. So it makes, it makes sense. Man, I have a lot of very favorite moves with my shoulders. Like so. If you had to pick one, like when you're talking, don't do that to me. That's not even fair to you.

I know. I mean, obviously the barbell, the barbell press, and a full range of barbell press. Right, I appreciate you. Not a military 90 degree shoulder press, a. Yeah, but let's say I credit you a lot for more awareness on rear-delt work. Oh, no, we'll get there.

I'm not sure. I just want to point that out because that was something that I neglected a lot and felt a massive difference. Well, since you brought that up, when it comes to developing aesthetic shoulders, nobody realizes it or a lot of people don't realize it. The rear-delt plays a huge role. Huge. Huge, huge.

You know, your delt is what makes your shoulder look right. And everybody thinks the side delt, it's the rear-delt. The rear-d You're dealt is what makes your shoulder look round. And everybody thinks the side belt, it's the rear delt. The rear delt gives you that square round looking shoulder. This for sure was the single biggest difference that I made in my aesthetics of my shoulder was putting so much emphasis on my rear delt. And I have lots of favorite exercises. Let me address all my favorite moves and why right so

Justin you introduced me to the the barbell push press I and that also is what and hanging out with you and training with you is also what inspired the hang cleans Those are movements that I wouldn't have done in the past Especially since I was so bodybuilder focus, but lifting that much weight explosively like that was just something that my body animate. It really grew from that. I love a single arm Arnold dumbbell press.

It's one of my favorite moves that I ever did. It's very similar to why you like the kettlebell press. It was my bodybuilder version of that. I used to train in a gym that didn't have kettlebells. So how'd I had access to kettlebells? Probably I would probably, because it does feel comfortable to rest the kettlebell in the form. But if you don't, then a single arm Arnold dumbbell press

was like one of my favorite moves to do. And then of course, the barbell. So the barbell overhead press, the hand clean, and I love to do a hand clean to a press, where I put it all together or or a push press, I got huge results from that. That's all front work. And then the rear, of course rear dumbbell flies, but I absolutely love the free motion

rear delt fly for this because of the consistent tension through the entire range of motion on the rear delt. You will not find anything else. The closest thing to that would be like a reverse pectech is the closest feeling that I have to that. But when I, and I've done a video on YouTube of where I hinge over and I pull the cable all the way through. So I'm in this complete, you're in the stretch as you can stretch that rear delt

when you're here in this. And that's where, like when you're sitting here on the pectech complete you're in the full as stretched as you can stretch that rear delt when you're here in this and that's where like when you're sitting here on the Pec deck you're at rest and the and you're not you're not in a full stretch position on that when you're pulled all the way through You're gonna start right there You're in a fully stretched position on the on the rear delt and then you pull it all the way out to its fullest range of motion And there's constant tension on that that machine machine, free motion, hinged over, rear-delt fly, I attribute that to some of the best rear-delt gains that I have. All right, so there's a couple exercises that you'll hear are dangerous and you shouldn't do them. And I want to be very clear, any exercise can be dangerous if you can't do it

right and you lack the mobility and stability to do it. And any exercises can be dangerous if you can't do it right, and you lack the mobility and stability to do it. And any exercises can be safe if you can do it properly. You have the right mobility and right stability. Any exercise, okay? So this is true for both. Now, some exercises require more skill, more mobility, more stability than others. So the potential risk is higher with more complex exercises, but that doesn't inherently make it dangerous.

So when people say, don't do this exercise dangerous or do this one, these are safe, that's a super over generalization. So I'll talk about two shoulder exercises that had profound effects on my shoulder development, mainly because when I first did them, I sucked at them because they didn't have the right mobility and stability, so I had to go real light and build myself up. And then when I did, we'll follow it along with that, was really good muscle development.

The first one is an upright row. And you'll find upright rows in a lot of math programs. And every once in a while, we'll get someone who'll be like, oh my God, why you put upright rows in there? That's so bad for the shoulder. It's like you're abducting with internal rotation while you're pulling the bar up. And that's so bad for it.

It's not bad for your shoulder if you could do it and you have the right stability and right strength. But doing this upright row position here, this exercise right here blew my shoulders up. It developed such round delts. It also was a completely different movement from almost any other shoulder movement. There's almost no other exercise that's similar to it.

And it also ties the biceps in with the shoulders, which is quite rare. As I'm pulling up, almost any other shoulder movement. There's almost no other exercise that's similar to it. And it also ties the biceps in with the shoulders, which is quite rare. As I'm pulling up, I'm using a little bit of biceps along with my shoulders. So it's a different combination of muscles, whereas with the shoulders, it's typically triceps that are assisting the shoulders.

Since you're talking about form, this is a good time to address this, that I find very common with developing shoulders. One of the most, like when I have somebody that who tells me they have stubborn shoulders and they can't develop their shoulders, many times is because of their form. What makes shoulders even more challenging to develop

is how easily other muscles can take over the movement. You talk about the rear delts being one of the biggest part of the shoulders, really easy to do a rear delt exercise that turns into a back exercise. Turn into a row. And into the untrained eye, you will look at somebody who is doing a, let's say reverse peck deck, right, where they're doing like a reverse fly,

and you will have a hard time telling the difference between the guy who is using almost all back versus the guy who is using almost all shoulders. Hard to see the difference if you don't really understand the mechanics of how that shoulder activates and moves. And so it's very easy for someone to do a move. Same thing goes for when you're doing a lateral raise and allowing the traps to take over a big portion of the movement and not leave it on the lateral head of the shoulder.

So that is, you cannot stress enough the form and technique on not only the safety part, but also on the part of developing the shoulder, is if you quickly go right to like the heaviest load you can do, but your mechanics are off slightly, it's very easy for other muscles to overcompensate and then not develop the shoulder. Here's a QA I like to use with flies and laterals,

is when you're doing the lateral, you're not lifting the dumbbell up, you're lifting it out and away from your body. And you have to go light to do this properly, but when you're lifting it out and away from your body, you tend to disengage or not use the traps and upper back as much as when you're just trying to lift it. So it's out, same thing with the rear fly.

I'm separating them, bringing them out rather than bringing them back and up. That queue right there, I've noticed with clients, made a pretty big difference. Yeah. Besides the upright row, here's another one that there's a lot of controversy around, which is funny because in the 90s,

everybody did this exercise, and for some reason it became more popular, is the behind the neck press. The behind the neck shoulder, you know what's funny about that? Olympic weight lifters do this all the time. Yeah. This is like a staple exercise. I mean, I lifters do this all the time. This is like a staple exercise.

I mean, I did this in college all the time. It was, and even, well, I guess before squat racks, like, how did you get the weight on your back? That was a whole process. I didn't have to clean it, I didn't bring it up and press it up and then, you know, decelerate and raise it down to your back. And then, you know, to disengage too, I guess you could throw it back, but a lot of times you'd press it up.

So the ability was there as long as you developed the strength adequately, just like any other muscle. So if you don't have the range of motion to get that external rotation, you gotta put the work in to make it possible. Keep your elbows under your hands when you press. That's a good cue for people to remember. So I had to, I couldn't do this when,

and I actually remember when I made it a goal during when I was competing. And I wanted to get to the place because I couldn't, right? I couldn't do it behind the neck press comfortably without like having to push my head way forward. It was just like, just didn't have the ability to retract very well. And I started with just the... Yeah, this is at the time when I could probably show military press comfortably to 25.

And I would put the bar, just the 45 pound bar. And I'd put it resting like I said, if I was squatting, sitting in the middle, and I would just practice moving the bar. How about you got a pump doing that? Oh, massive pump. And a massive workout from just that really lightweight. Eventually then I added 10 pounds and 10 pounds and 10 pounds and then got to the point

where I could press almost as much weight behind the neck as I could in front of me like that and felt some of the best ever felt by working towards that. I like it because what it does with my shoulder blades is it forces my scapula to come down and pinch back when I'm at the bottom versus with an up with a press to the front, my shoulder blades a little forward. So it's a different position for the shoulder blade plus behind the neck really actually requires me to contract my delts just to hold them there. So I'm getting like this contraction

the entire time I'm pressing, but I always go lighter with it because it does require more mobility and stability. What's silly to me about that being sort of taboo is the same person would have them doing back squats. How are you even going to get in that position appropriately without that serious external rotation and then adding tension? Are you just resting on your spine without any support and muscular tension to work through. So, to me, that's just kind of a funny thing. I think that it was, of course,

it's a safety red tape kind of a thing that was just like promoted. Yeah, well, it was the certifications would tell us. Don't do these exercises because they required a higher level of skill from the trainer. And we were all new trainers. A lot of the stuff they told us in the first certifications we got,

we don't do this, don't do this, because they have confidence in our skill to be able to teach and train these exercises, which was actually to the detriment because it took me a long time to realize that these are not dangerous exercises. They're valuable, you just have to know how to do them properly, perform them properly, and you have to know why it hurts and how to address the reason

why it hurts. But when you can do them and you do them right and you get stronger at them, you develop delts that are just phenomenal. You know, this wasn't on our list to talk about this, but you just reminded me of a point that I think it's important to make if you're listening to this. Obviously you're listening to this, it's a masterclass on shoulders, and so you're probably trying to work and develop your shoulders. If you follow one of our main maps programs, which mostly are full body routines, you typically see shoulders, third, fourth or fifth exercise in many programs. You normally have them front loaded with your leg exercises, then your back exercises,

then your chest exercises, and then shoulders. If shoulders are an area that you really want to develop or are lagging in comparison, there's nothing wrong with you starting your lift, your day with your front presses or your big shoulder movement. For first, if you want to develop it. Because a lot of times, this was actually one

of the big first shifts that I made when I told you I used to always just say, oh, I'm doing chest, I'm doing back, I'm getting little shoulders, and then I'd afterthought be these lateral raises, never once that I made when I told you I used to always just say, oh, I'm doing chess, so I'm doing back. I'm getting little shoulders. And then I'd afterthought be these lateral raises, never once that I ever start a workout with like a press like that and see how strong I could be when I'm fresh going into one of these big lifts. That makes a big difference. Then it after chess, after back and after legs, not a lot of gas left to do a heavy push

press or a heavy shoulder press when you've done those movements first. So prioritizing it early in the workout I think is important. So I think you can generally put shoulder exercises into three categories. Your presses, your raises, which include your lateral raises and your flies and your front raises and your rows. Your standing rows, upright rows. That's kind of like covers the bases with your general shoulder exercises.

Then you have your stabilization exercises and your warm up movements like your shoulder dislocates with a stick. You could do external rotation exercises with cables or bands to work on the stabilizers. But those three categories that I said earlier, those are the main major categories of exercise that you want to pick from.

And you want to make sure you have at least one of those components, you know, in one of your workouts, especially if you're training your shoulders as frequently as you should be, which is at least two or three days a week. The shoulders respond really well, like most of the body, with a good two or three days a week of training. Meaning, take your total volume of workout, and don't do it all in one workout, divide it up over two or three workouts, and you'll, you'll typically get the best results. I do want to caution the listener to making sure that if they don't incorporate all the movements

that we have already listed today, that they have to think because we didn't really talk about the rotator cuff and the importance of that. And obviously if you do behind the neck presses, you do the kettlebell presses that Justin's talking about or Arnold presses, you're getting a nice rotational component in there or if you're doing something like the pull through, like I said, where there's a full range of motions to be able to component in there, you get a lot of good rotator cuff in there. But if you're somebody who just does the traditional shoulder press, lateral raise, rear fly, type of deal, and you don't do a lot of rotational movement incorporate in there, you gotta find a way to put that in there,

whether you isolate it by itself and do rotate your cuff or you introduce some of these movements that we're talking about. Yeah, I like wall circles as a primer. I like shoulder dislocates as a good primer and then band external rotation. You load it, do some halos. It doesn't have to be that heavy. Obviously, it's not a major muscle group,

but to be able to kind of add that stimulus and start strengthening their response a bit more, adding loads and option. Yeah, now generally speaking, when you design, you put together your shoulder workout, you want to start with a press, just a big, heavy, gross motor movement. You could also start with a row, if you're really good at them,

and you can get pretty strong, but usually it's a big, heavy, gross motor movement. You could also start with the row, if you're really good at them, and you can get pretty strong, but usually it's a press, and then from there, you move to the different raises, and you typically want to work on hitting the side of the shoulder and the rear of the shoulder. Now, if you're more advanced, and you've identified some imbalances in your shoulder, like your rear delts,

start your workout with the rear delts. I did that for years to bring up my rear delts. I love that. I actually love that as general advice because it's rare I meet somebody that trains their shoulders, that wants to develop their shoulders more, that doesn't have a more developed front shoulder than their rear shoulders.

Almost always when I meet somebody who wants to do out their shoulders who's already pressing and doing some of the movements, they're neglecting their rear. And so getting that person to start with a rear delt exercise, I think is super beneficial. Although the general advice for the average person, I think would always be to do like a regular shoulder press first, but I think there's tremendous value in a lot of people who are trying to develop the rear deal. Now we talked about rep ranges earlier.

I'll say this, the low rep ranges work really well for the presses. Everything else, I would say, is moderate to higher reps. I don't really see tons of value in low rep raises, lateral raises or front raises. It becomes more of a back exercise. It's really hard to make it a shoulder, like a straight shoulder exercise. Yeah, and the leverage is just so far out there. It is. I mean, I would caution people with loading shoulder stuff because back to my original

point about how easily the rest of the body can cheat the rep. It is one of those exercises where it can be deceiving. You're like, oh, I can do more weight than that because you can because all of a sudden all the secondary muscle is yeah, and momentum kick in and they help you out. And so you you get this ego boost of, oh, you're doing double the weight of what you, you, you, maybe you thought you should do or whatever, but it's really because all those other muscles are over compensating and helping that loadout. Whereas if you're staying really strict and trying to isolate the shoulders much as possible,

it doesn't take very much load to get a really good workout. And so I would want you to have really, really good mechanics and control of all those movements we've talked about first before. I really allowed you to start to really load that muscle because it's one of the ones I think is very easy to cheat and to not to not feel it. Yeah, but you know, along those lines, like really trying to get strong on your overhead press, you're going to get good shoulder development.

Really trying to get strong on your lateral raise, you're going to get like a bunch of trap development, right? Really trying to get strong with your rear fly, you're going to get a lot of rhomboid presses. You know, we didn't even bring up, which is one of my favorite exercises at Kelly Bambri, I was the Z Press. Oh, that's a great, that's a great press for you. And I love that as a starting press for a lot of people, right?

So if you, you, you get formed check. Yeah, if you're taking the advice right now where I'm telling you, don't go crazy, load it until you think you have good form. You're like, okay, well, how do I know I'm getting a really good form? Get good at the Z Press. You get good at the Z press with the stabilization at the top of that right there. That's going to teach you to have good mechanics. You're going to get good

stability from that and good form. You can't cheat it like Justin's saying. You'll fall over if you cheat that rep. So you get good at a Z press. You'll see tremendous carryover and all the other action. There's also good value and overhead holds. So when you do a press, you can even get a weight that you press up and then just hold above your head and try to be as straight as possible. Don't try to, you know, try to prevent yourself from overarching your back, try to keep your head in between your arms, really extend the shoulders,

push like you're trying to push the weight up as high as you can and hold that for 10 to 15 seconds. I mean, isometrics in that position is such a good way to develop stabilization and muscle in the shoulders. Look, if you want a shoulder workout, that's written all out for you because you listened to the episode and you said, look, what does this look like? What are the reps, sets, exercises? What does the programming look like?

We have a shoulder mod. So this is a maps workout program just for shoulders In other words take your total workout take out the shoulder part of your workout plug the mod in that we've written and now you have an amazing shoulder workout so our shoulder mod right now because of this episode is 50% off you can find it at maps fitnesscom, and the code for the 50% off is shoulders. Shoulders will give you 50% off, and there you go. You got your full shoulder workout. Look, you can also find us all on social media.

Justin is on Instagram, I'm at my pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram on my pump Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at my pump sal. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps and a ballac, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs.

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