Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1969: Dirty Bulk Vs. Clean Bulk for Building Muscle, Ways to Build Size When You Have a High Cardio Job, How to Combine Bodybuilding & Powerlifting & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live-colors questions, but this was after an introductory portion. This was 54 minutes long, where we talk about things like fitness, curtain events, our lives, studies, our kids, and so much more.

Starting point is 00:00:30 By the way, you could check the show notes for timestamps if you want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, do you want to be on an episode like this one? We could talk to us live on air and have us answer your questions. Email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organify. They make organic plant-based supplements that help performance and health.

Starting point is 00:00:50 One of their newest ones is called Peak Power. This one puts pre-workout supplements to shame. You get energy, you feel good, you don't get a crazy crash. I helped formulate it. Go check it out and check out the other products. Go to Organify.com. That's ORGA and IFI.com forward slash MindARD-SLASH-MINE-PUNP. And then use the code MINE-PUNP for 20% off.

Starting point is 00:01:09 This episode is also brought to you by Felix Gray Glasses, makers of blue light blocking glasses that are clear. They don't change the color and everything around you. And they look good. Go check them out. Head over to FelixGrayGlasses.com. That's F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y glasses.com forward slash mind pump. Also, we got a sale going on this month. It's called the at home holiday bundle.

Starting point is 00:01:34 We've taken our best at home workout programs, maps anywhere, maps suspension, maps prime and the no BS 6 pack formula, put them together in a bundle and discounted the price by over $238. So if you got those all normally, they would cost you retail, $338. But right now you can get that bundle which includes all those programs for only $99.99. If you're interested, get yourself signed up at mapsdicember.com.

Starting point is 00:02:02 All right, here comes the show. Check this out, this is a great workout for gains, especially if it's different from what you're doing now. So check this out. Use half the weight you normally use. Use half the intensity you normally use, but double the volume of your workout. In other words, if you do three sets for a body part, do six sets. If it's ten sets, do 20 sets. But with halfway, half intensity, focus on the volume, the pump, the technique in the form, it's very different. And always produces great results when it's novel. GVT.

Starting point is 00:02:32 Ooh, they're higher intensity. Oh, I so I think that's the mistake that you make when you do when you do. I guess you're right towards the end. It gets higher. Yeah, I mean, so every time I, so I do it similar, right? So, and I'll interrupt my training. And I'm like, you know, when's the last time I just did, you know, 10 sets of bench, or, you know, like, I'll, and I'll do that.

Starting point is 00:02:55 And every time I do that, I base the way off of like my standard, you know, sets of four or five, my strength, and think, well, if I take about 25 or 30% off of that, I should be good. And the first three sets is easy breezy, but by sets four, five, six, I'm cutting away this calculation. Oh, I'm always off.

Starting point is 00:03:17 I remember the last time I did that for Bench, I had 35 on by the end of the, Wow. So depressing. That's embarrassing. Yeah. Yeah. And you feel so resolutely. But you know, I so I like that you're presenting it this way for the audience because that's

Starting point is 00:03:34 a better approach. Like you just, okay, I benched 225 when I work out, let's say in my five by five to routine. Okay, I'm going to go in there and put, you know, 135 or less. Yeah, so I call this the half, the half, half double routine, right? And so I did it today, right? I went to the gym. I had a good amount of time. I was able to get up early. Everything was fine this morning, baby, state and bed, whatever. So I went to the gym and I cut all the weight and half. I cut my intensity way down. So the focus is just on the muscle and the

Starting point is 00:04:04 movement. And then I doubled the volume. I did twice as much volume as I normally do. And it was different because that's not how I've been training. So I got a crazy pump. I felt really good. It's a lot of fun to change it up. Swole up like a balloon. Yeah, totally.

Starting point is 00:04:17 And you do this occasionally. By the way, you could go in the opposite, right? You could take your workout, double the, you know, or go heavy, double the intensity and cut the volume in half. This formula works in the opposite direction as well. And when it's novel, that's the important thing here, by the way, when it's something that you're not currently doing, this is when you really start to reap the benefits.

Starting point is 00:04:40 And lately I've been training with low volume, heavy weight, you know, longer rest periods, that's how to deal. So I went in today, did this, heavy weight, longer rest periods, type of deal. So I went in today, did this, totally different, and I could feel it. I've been working out long enough to know that I could feel that this was gonna cause some changes, some positive changes. Oh, yeah, that one's for me.

Starting point is 00:04:56 It's like the ultimate kind of, what do you call it, where it just shakes everything up. It destroys you. Plateau Buster? Yeah, because it's, for me, it's such a dynamic shift from what I always tend to do, which is just one to five rep range and focus on heavy lifting and to get that kind of like rep count up and then the weight drop

Starting point is 00:05:21 and all that, dude. When's the last time you did it all? When's the last time you did a bodybuilding workout, like full bodybuilding. Not like I did one set of curls. Like I said more, is probably the last challenge like we had, you know, the four of us. I never does.

Starting point is 00:05:36 I don't do it, dude. Like, I mean, unless it's just that I want to get I get you doing some stuff in there. Yeah, but those are like trigger sessions. It's not like you know, you don't want. I can't claim I've stuff in there. Yeah, but those are like trigger sessions. It's not like you don't want. I can't claim I've been doing like a burger beef. It goes against his like core bro. Like to train for aesthetics.

Starting point is 00:05:50 You know what I mean? He hates himself after that. Because then I start looking at the mirror. I'm like, who am I? You know, like, it's away from you real quick. It's away from you. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:02 He's like, he's like, look at my head. Ah, stop it. I'm so hot. Oh, yeah, happen again. Exactly. Oh, but, God, dude. He's like, look at him. Oh, stop it. I'm so hot. Oh, yeah, happy to get it. Exactly. But really, it's been that long, huh? It has. Yeah, I know.

Starting point is 00:06:10 I'm due for it. So this is something I've spent on my mind. You bringing that up, it's funny, because I've been like, teasing with the idea of like going more hypertrophy for a while and doing a phase at least for a couple months or so. Yeah. Do you have to change the music if you do something like that? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:26 Yeah. Otherwise, if I go like my normal metal and heavy and I will just get to aggressive. And again, I'll miscalculate the hell out of the weight load and then destroy myself. But you have to calm down. What your bodybuilding play with. This is not like, let's see. We know it's houses. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:41 Because then you lean a little more to hip hop or something, right? Yeah. If I'm not trying to, if I had to scale intensity back, it's hip hop. Because rock, rock, I'm like, we're all the same when it comes to like, this is where I like heavy metal. Like if I'm going after it, it's heavy dead lifting or I'm pushing limits, for sure, heavy metal rock. And I would say, yeah, but the heaviest you go with, not weight, but with the music.

Starting point is 00:07:04 Rage, tool. Yeah, that's about as deep as you go Yeah, maybe a little bit of Pantera every once in a while Maybe some Metallica Dev tones I'll go Dev tones But I you got you guys like she fell I love yeah, those are all those are all my playlist right but Yeah, I don't go too crypt, but I even listen to that too.

Starting point is 00:07:27 Like, so like, tool for me is a nice kind of cruise train hard, but I don't like it. I'm not, like Rage is like angry. I got, I want to get after Pantera's angry. I want to get after it. Hip hop is like, I don't, I'm trying to avoid any level of intensity. Yeah. I'm just kind of going through the groove. It's, I'm pumping. Yeah, I'm pumping, I'm trying to avoid any level of intensity. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:45 I'm just kind of going through the moves. I'm moving. Yeah, I'm pumping. I'm doing mobility. Yeah. I'm not a big hip hop guide. I listen to hip hop mainly for, if we're presenting or we're doing anything that like on the front of people because I don't know, it's like this ego pump.

Starting point is 00:07:59 It makes you feel cool. Yeah, usually. Yeah, yeah. No, it does. I mean, that's why I played it in here the other day when we had the live event. That puts me in the mood like that too. If I go, if I'm going heavy-ish, then it's your playlist, same thing.

Starting point is 00:08:11 Raging and some machine, tool, chevelle, rock zombie, rock zombie. That's your whole life for you. When I'm going, now when I go and I wanna go, as heavy as I can, and I wanna try and hit PRs and go nuts and throw caution to the wind, then it's fast, it's evil, it's crazy shit. It's sepultera and the light.

Starting point is 00:08:32 It's dealing. Yeah, it's stuff like that where you almost can't make out what's going on in the song. You just hear yelling and shit and it just makes me angry. I love it though. But when I'm doing like bodybuilding workout, it's EDM. Oh, EDM? That's your move.. EDM? It's like great music. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:08:50 Yeah, I'm still a little bit more in the rock genre. Like I'll go more like royal blood or, you know, I guess I'm trying to think of the other name of some of these like kind of newer bands, but like like Led Zeppelin and like I'll do some classic rock I guess, in that vein. But like, dude, yeah, I can't go like two soft. I had to work out to like top 40 the other day, because I had my headphones and I put them on and then it makes that sound.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Do, do, do, do. I'm like, oh, it's gonna die. My headphones are gonna die. Top 40, what's that? What do you think? That's what the gym plays. Oh, because you're in the gym. It was in the gym, dude. So I was like, it was a long time since I had worked out. What worked out there. Like, little gnocin' that is trash. Whatever top 40, you know, shit is, like Taylor Swift.

Starting point is 00:09:27 Like a commercial gyms trash. The only way you get good music in a dungeon type gym, you might get some good, good music. See, when I use, so back in the day. Which is understandable, right? You're in a commercial gym, you have to appeal to like, the general audience, like, you don't want like, you know, the 60 year old grandma walks in and is like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom I use, so back in the day, which is understandable, right? You're in a commercial gym, you have to appeal to like the general audience,

Starting point is 00:09:45 like you don't want like, you know, the six-year-old grandma walks in and is like, do do do do do do do do do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, come on over here. Let's check out this elliptical. Oh, did I ever tell you guys, did I ever tell you guys one time?

Starting point is 00:09:56 Dude, this is great for your knees. You just reminded me of a hilarious memory. Well, I was a loud murderer. I went like for everybody. When I had my wellness studio, I used to work out in the middle of the day sometimes, and it would be no one else in there, be just me, sometimes a trainer, but no clients.

Starting point is 00:10:09 And I would kind of turn the lights down because I liked it kind of dark. And if I was gonna go heavy, I would do crazy metal or whatever. And I remember this was towards the end of my workout, and I was at this point, I was trying to build my neck up. I was trying to, I was like, for fun.

Starting point is 00:10:23 I was like, let's see if I can get my neck strong. So I had this neck, I had this neck harness on with chains coming on down the sides. We're so similar yet so different. So we would, I don't know. I'm totally different. You had one of those head chains. You know you were at the same time.

Starting point is 00:10:36 I've done neck training for the first time. But it wasn't like a goal. No, he's all, he's just built it on accident, so I have some of these. Well, he has a little more application when he's playing football. Yeah, he's playing football. Yeah, he's better. Well, he has a little more application. We have football stuff. Yeah, football stuff. Yeah, he's better.

Starting point is 00:10:47 Actually, wearing a helmet will build a shit out of your neck. You're asking for a football helmet for, you know, an hour? I mean, they'll mess you up. Anyway, so I had the head harness on. So remember, it's like leather straps, right? What are you wearing at home for an outfit? Chains, huh? When would you be wearing it?

Starting point is 00:11:00 I'd play football for us just like you. I tried it out. Oh, you have? And I fucking hated it. I don't think you've ever told me that. I did tell you guys. No, you haven't. Bro, I signed up because I, I, this,

Starting point is 00:11:10 I did not know this. I swear. I thought he's never said this. Has he said this? What? No. No, he's to me. Did you know he's, he's got the thumbs up.

Starting point is 00:11:18 Yeah, he's definitely battered up. You knew? I did. I did. Really? Uh huh. I did. So I tried out, or not tried out. I would, I see, it's just didn't tell the same. I did. So I tried out, I'm not trying out, I, I, I, I, I,

Starting point is 00:11:26 it's just pop Warner, right? So I signed up, I was probably 13, maybe 12, 13, and I'm like, oh, this is gonna be awesome. And they beat the shit out of us so bad. And the coaches were yelling and I was like, ready to throw up. Yep. And I remember being like, I don't know if I'm gonna do the same experiences I did.

Starting point is 00:11:44 We've had a lot of real simmer things. Very similar. But anyway, this, I don't know if I'm gonna do this anymore. I'm gonna do this the same experiences I did. We've had a lot of real simmer things. Very similar. But anyway, I had the head harness on leather straps, chains coming down. I had like three 25 pound plates on, just hanging in between my legs. Crazy ass heavy metal music.

Starting point is 00:11:57 And I'm, and then I kind of pulled my neck, so I stand up and I had this metal hook looking thing with the ball at the end, that I would use to press on my traps. So I'm holding this metal hook with the ball at the end that I would use to press on my traps. So I'm holding this metal hook with the ball at the end with the chains off my head all the way and this old lady walks in. She opens the door and the metal and it's like, I got chains and I got this metal hook and I'm looking at her.

Starting point is 00:12:18 She just so she did. She went like this, she went, oh, and she did. I was like, no, I love training old people. Never came back to you. Never come back to you. Never lost a client like that. That's fuck good. No.

Starting point is 00:12:32 I see, no, I was gonna bring up. I see the coal plunge is starting to get used now. Nobody was using that. Has now early. Huh, so you didn't? You dipped, huh? I did it. I did a minute. That was it. I know you two minutes. I don't know what's wrong

Starting point is 00:12:47 No, I did five I five yesterday five. Yeah, so I'm up to over over four Because actually I don't think when you first started what you start with to wow you and two routes You need is you need to go to like I don't like you're not getting shit at one bro. Yeah, yeah I'm not getting any benefits. I've been maybe it's you b see, you know, you got you need a little more than that. I think, okay, so. Like splash. I heard, I heard Andrew. I gotta start a little by little, you know.

Starting point is 00:13:10 I heard Andrew Huberman talk about what the, what the study show as far as getting, reaping the most benefits for the least amount of time. It's quite a week, right? It's 15 minutes total in the, oh, excuse me, 12 minutes total for the week. 12 to 15. So I didn't do shit.

Starting point is 00:13:27 Yeah, so this, so my, my thought is I get at least three sessions in of four minutes is my, is my minimum goal. I try and do every day, but I know I want to get in there at least three. So here's what's weird. I've noticed this about people is that you either tolerate hot, very well, or you tolerate cold very well. I'm okay. You and I are like each other here.

Starting point is 00:13:47 I'm more of the steam sauna guy. The cold thing is fucking miserable. Yeah. No, it's been a, it's been a hot forever. I can sit in a steam room or sauna and I could just, and I tell you, I'm, I've been consistently doing this now and it's still a motherfucker. It's every time I get in it, it's like, oh, it's not here. I mean, what gets easier, what gets easier is,

Starting point is 00:14:09 I have the ability to calm myself down really quick now and I know what I need to do to get in that space. And so that part gets easier, but the feeling it gives me is just as, you know, early every time. Well, so when I did it, I only did it for a minute, but you get a very distinct dopamine boost afterwards. And now the problem is to get the dopamine, you gotta go through the shit,

Starting point is 00:14:33 but that's also a feature. So they show that when you have to do hard work to get dopamine, you don't get the negative feedback loop that you might get with like drugs and shit like that. So if your dopamine comes from something that was hard, it's a good thing. If your dopamine comes from something that's easy, like taking a pill, then it can become a problem.

Starting point is 00:14:54 Always, that's true. That is true. That's interesting. So it's like, you climb to mountain or you do this crazy ass hike and you're super exhilarated, right? Very different than getting exhilarated from taking a pill.

Starting point is 00:15:05 You're gonna open it. Correct. Interesting. So it's the hard before the reward that makes it different. What is it that, what is it, is it like, is there a mechanism that's different? I'm sure there is. Yeah, this is, yeah, I gotta read a little bit more about it.

Starting point is 00:15:19 But so cold dipping, by the way, do you know the cold dips? Some people get addicted to them, you guys know that? Yeah. I mean, of course it's another, you get in this huge dopamine rush. I guess. I mean, there's, it's the, the, the part that I really enjoy is the after fact. I mean, it, to me, it, it, it shits on any pre workout caffeine drink I could ever

Starting point is 00:15:40 take. Oh, you're energized for like five hours. Yeah, it's a, you know what I noticed yesterday because yesterday was the long five minutes Is the longest I've stayed in there now? I It took me like hours later to warm up So I I can I can imagine right now the calorie burn Benefits that my body probably get of trying to re-acclimate my body converts wife fat to brown fat

Starting point is 00:16:02 Dude I I was driving I was driving home yesterday. It was a moderately warm day yesterday and I had a flannel on it and stuff like that. And normally by the time we get this fucking sauna out of here, sorry, I've been swearing a lot today, I just caught that. I feel I'm like ready to get down to a t-shirt, but after doing that, I was cold all the way home. The train had the fire, I was standing for the fire.

Starting point is 00:16:23 I was like, oh wow, that actually took a while to heat my temperature back up. And you can only imagine when you're running that cold, the body working to get its temperature back up, I'm sure it will. No, that's the thing. So you didn't go sauna after that. No, I like sauna first.

Starting point is 00:16:40 So I haven't been doing, so I was on, before we had the cold plung, I was pretty consistent with the sauna. So I've trained hot for quite some time now. I'm not consistent with the cold plunge, so that's more of a priority for me. And I've been doing, and that what I like about the cold plunge, it's a, it's a quick in and out. The sauna, our sauna takes freaking 30, 30, 40 minutes to warm up and then, you know, and then you got to sit in there for 20 minutes. Yeah, so the cold plunge is like, I just got to sit in there for 20 minutes. Yeah, so the cold plunges like, I just got to make that commit bit real quick.

Starting point is 00:17:07 So brown fat is thermogenic body fat. So this is body fat on your body that burns calories and it warms you up. And when you do cold therapy, the white fat, by the way, white fat's harder to burn. It's not thermogenic, it sticks to your body more. In other words, if you have body fat, you want it to be the brown fat.

Starting point is 00:17:28 That's the kind that's thermogenically active. Doing the cold dips converts the white fat to brown fat. So actually, because your body's adapting to be able to warm up better. So you're actually making your body, that's your speculation, you're actually teaching your body to burn more calories on its own. It has been speeding up your metabolism through

Starting point is 00:17:44 converting fat, which is pretty wild. Yeah, I know. I'm crazy. I'm super. Did you guys know it? Super about it now. I've noticed, I mean, the fact that I made it this far into winter

Starting point is 00:17:58 with the amount of people we've had around a sick, and even another thing I always get sick, traveling, like we've been doing flights to Utah and stuff like that and being in the airplane Airport like touching stuff like almost always get sick up and good tonight. So so you guys know Jessica's she learned Russian and then her when she's Russian Yeah, I remember you said But not the food. Tell these stories Like on the podcast You didn't know that.

Starting point is 00:18:25 Yeah, she's learned a couple of languages, right? He's been forgetting a lot lately. Is it I'm forgetting a lot? I think I just learned it. I think I just learned it. We've got a hurry up and retire for Adam's brain to go completely. Don't smoke weed kids.

Starting point is 00:18:37 No, no, no. So she, yeah, she's a, I mean, she's a very intelligent person at one point. So her ex-husband was Ukrainian and she traveled with Cirque du Soleil, a lot of Russian acrobat. Her ex-husband's family spoke Russian. So she decided I'm gonna learn Russian. So she speaks it fluently.

Starting point is 00:18:52 She's been to Russia, she's been to Ukraine. She said that it is a common practice in some of those places where when they bathe a child, that at the very end, they do a cold, they do like a cold rinse. Freezing cold rinse. Well you guys remember Kingsbury, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:08 Kyle's kids never had warm water. Yeah, it's always cold. Yeah, they from out the gates. I remember them saying that. Yeah. So I started doing this with Ralias. So he'll take a shower with me sometimes and then I make it a game afterwards. I make it cold and I go, all right, you ready?

Starting point is 00:19:19 And then we go in there and I'm going to start doing this a little bit more regularly. But there's videos, you can watch videos of Russian school children where it's snowing outside and they'll take like a 15 minute recess break and they go out in their bathing suit and play in the sun. Okay, so this is gonna be interesting how this plays out for you because so I tried to introduce Max to cold water early on like this and I did it through the swimming pool. And it like totally turned him off to getting in the pool for like a year because of that.

Starting point is 00:19:48 And I could only get him into like a heated pool or jacuzzi after that. Like I could not get, if it was even just like, it's like, it's bougie like you. Dude, he was, and I blame myself that I, you know, I tried to get him to acclimate to really cold pool water and he was just not having it. So I figured that too.

Starting point is 00:20:07 I thought, okay, well he's with the Rayleigh, so I'm like, if I make him hate this, he'll never want to do it again. Yeah. So I made it a game. So I said, oh, I'm gonna make it cold. You're in, I made it cold a bit. Oh my God, it's so cold and I'll pretend to go in

Starting point is 00:20:18 and then I'll, I give him a little cup that he splashes water on me. So I was like, oh my God, don't get me wet. And then of course he splashes me. Then I splash him and then I go, you ready? And then I go in and we stay in there for like, just like 15 seconds. And then he laughs and then we're done.

Starting point is 00:20:32 You know what happened yesterday, my, our teachers, Max's teachers suggested to Katrina or implied that, you know, to consider putting them in a speech therapy again. And I thought that was interesting, because she was saying that, right now, they have issues sometimes where the kids are playing. And like he's moved to the next level up of age.

Starting point is 00:20:52 So his kids are all his age and older. He was, his speech was a little delayed as far as his ability to communicate. And I was actually talking to you know, I'm the one who's like more paranoid with that. I'm the one that kind of pushed the speech therapist early and I was like, you know, he should be starting to say more things and then of course I told you guys that we went through it

Starting point is 00:21:10 and they were like, oh, he totally understands, it'll come and it happened. So the kids will get into it or something and then the other kids can articulate what happened and you can tell he gets frustrated when he gets lost for words. But I told her I was like, you know, I said, I'm never opposed to having a professional,

Starting point is 00:21:27 you know, see him and then give their advice. I said, but I'm less worried this time. And she's like, really? And she's like, you're the one that was so, you know, pushing that. I said, well, he's progressing. I see it every month right now. If he was stagnant, I would be concerned.

Starting point is 00:21:41 That's a very good point. I was like, I would be more concerned. I said, what you're, what the teacher's experiencing is that they're all those kids have are ahead of them. He's just, he's playing, he's catching up. Yeah, I said, they went to that too, it was just a year ago for them. You know, they went to the like, where they can kind of communicate. And so he's, he's behind on that.

Starting point is 00:21:57 And so then I said, the teacher is just saying that to you because it's hard for her. It's hard for her because he's the only one of those kids in that group that can like articulate his point, right? And so I'm like, I mean, do it. I said, have the speech therapist talk to him. I said, I'm totally open to hearing their opinion. But I mean, the kid is like every week says a new sentence of something that he couldn't say before.

Starting point is 00:22:18 But... But around those other kids is really gonna help, you know, elevate the audience. Oh yeah, I mean, I told you guys just the other day, like how cuted it is, we put them on the FaceTime with this friend before who could like, totally talk, like, and you hear them, they're communicating back and forth.

Starting point is 00:22:33 And so I see him progressing like every week. So I'm like, yeah, you know. But, you know, if he, if he, because with that kind of stuff, if he enjoys it, it doesn't hurt, right? So, yeah. That's what I said. I don't care.

Starting point is 00:22:44 I think if you ever watch them work with kids, the good ones, they make it fun, the kid enjoys it. So it't hurt, right? So, you know what I'm saying? I don't care. I mean, if you ever watch them work with kids, the good ones, they make it fun, the kid enjoys it. So it's like, okay, well, you know, won't hurt or whatever. But he understands everything. Yeah, everything. You talk to him. Yeah, you just see he's, he gets,

Starting point is 00:22:55 like sometimes he's lost for the word. And you can see him searching, and then he gets a little frustrated like that when he's with kids that are, and they're moving fast and doing something. I'm like, yeah, but every kid goes through that. He just, he's going through it later because he was delayed. You know, so I mean, as long as I see progression and that what I didn't see a year and a half

Starting point is 00:23:13 ago, that was what was kind of making me worry. We're now I'm like, nah, he's picking up. Dude, I was holding my infant daughter at Dahlia. So now she's like, what, two and a half weeks. And I was changing her diaper, and I'm looking at her little, little legs. I love baby legs. So I was like squeezing them and whatever. I just love them. But she's not chunky yet. She's only two and a half weeks old, but I look at her legs and I'm like, hell yeah, dude, she inherited Jessica's muscle bellies. That's

Starting point is 00:23:40 two for two now. Like, yes, I got two kids, you know, because Jessica's got these really long muscle bellies, long calves and quads and ham and all this. So I'm looking at her and I'm like, babe, look at her calves. She's gonna have nice calves. I'm like, yeah. Justin, you were gonna say something, were you gonna say? Yeah, no, I had a funny story actually with Everett and Ethan too. They're both kind of in this phase right now where they're trying to get attention from the other opposite sex and trying to figure

Starting point is 00:24:09 all this stuff out. They both are. You know that? Yeah, I think too, the older brother kind of in flames having a bit of a girlfriend now, quote unquote, has kind of spawned his interest a little bit more to see what he can do. But anyways, it's just like it's so insanely typical.

Starting point is 00:24:27 Like the pulling hair, the lighting on fire, the throwing stuff at girl to get attention stuff. But like, so his, this is what happened with him. And he was telling me about this, I was dying laughing because this girl that he kind of likes, like, so she, she grabbed his friends hat and goes and puts it on and is like, you know, trying to be like, uh, uh, flirty, I guess, some, some bit with them, right? Like, and just have a phone with him. And so he's like, oh, oh, no, you put the hat on. He's like, Jameson has lice.

Starting point is 00:25:01 She's like, she's like, oh, it takes an hour. Did you really have last year's New York? No, no, he's just messing with her. You know, and like, dude, you gotta like say, I'm just kidding, you know? Like, let her just keep thinking, like, now she's got life. Oh my God, she's your son.

Starting point is 00:25:17 You know, oh, it's dying, dude. And yeah, there's a bunch of other funny things like he was telling me about, one of them was a dweeb. So he has this kind of term that he just came up with for kids that are really an anime because he just doesn't get it. And it was fun. The first time I heard him swear to me,

Starting point is 00:25:38 he doesn't do it or anything, but he's just like, there's just one name for, I'm trying to look at the name of it. Oh, Naruto. Naruto, he's like, who the hell is Naruto for, I'm trying to look at the name of it. Oh, Naruto. Naruto, he's like, who the hell is Naruto? You know who that is? Of course I do. I'm like, I don't know who the hell Naruto is.

Starting point is 00:25:52 Like, where they come up with these names, you know, and he's like going off about like, I don't understand it. He like calls them dweebs or, or a, weebs. I remember you saying this yesterday. Weebs, weebs, dweebs. You're not even a, you're not even normal dweebs. Weebs. Yeah. I was this week we do you're not even a normal do weebs. Yeah, I was like I'm gonna use that

Starting point is 00:26:08 Where to go Justin you're building yourself a little bully It's just jokes No, he's got a great sense of humor. Yeah, he delivers it all cheeky, so it's not like it is true boys are Well, God, what kind of doofus is for a long time with flirting with girls, aren't we? Because my daughter has, there's this boys in her class at mess with her all the time. And I know it's because they're trying to flirt with her.

Starting point is 00:26:34 But they're just, you know, how boys are. It's a transition. It takes a while to really figure that out, like how to like be funny, but not hurt feelings and be able to get attention, but like the right attention. So I'll do one of the commercials right now because then I wanna transition us into a conversation

Starting point is 00:26:52 I wanna ask you guys about that I heard. Okay, well we're supposed to talk about organify and Felix Gray. Actually I have a study on Felix Gray. We'll get to that later, which is kind of cool, but organify, we're still getting great feedback on peak power. So a lot of people are saying that they like it

Starting point is 00:27:08 more than their pre-workout because they need less caffeine with it. That's what they're saying. Have you heard what the average scoop is? Because I know you made it to where it's designed to where you can kind of... One scoop is 100 milligrams of caffeine. Oh, it's 150 for some reason.

Starting point is 00:27:22 No, 100. So two is 200. And three, obviously 300. You're gonna have to have that. There you go. So you wanna guess what for us? Anybody have a guess? So I do 300 milligrams of caffeine normally before a workout, but with peak power, 200

Starting point is 00:27:37 is where I go. I feel just as good, actually better, because I don't get the, you know, the jitters. No, no. That's the feedback I'm hearing the most from it, is the people of the school. That was 100% like the smooth caffeine high that you get from it without the jitters and the tingles that you get with a lot of pre-workouts,

Starting point is 00:27:53 which I'm glad you didn't do that, because that's my least favorite part. It is. It's my face itch and I don't like a lot. No, you have somebody like email you that they PR using it. I did it. Someone's using it for commercial later.

Starting point is 00:28:04 Oh yeah, okay, I'm not bad. I don't wanna expose. I did. Some were using it for commercial later. Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm on these clothes. I'm like, I PR too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:28:12 So listen, so yesterday I was, so we have Chris Williamson, who does, he's got the modern wisdom podcast, really like this guy. I've watched quite a bit of his interviews. He's a great interviewer. He said huge names on there. He said, Jocco, Jordan Peterson. I mean, you name it. He said, our friends Max, Luke of VR and stuff.

Starting point is 00:28:31 Just Max had great things to say about him. So we have him coming in studio, I think, next month. If you know Doug, I think it's the next month. I don't know. It's okay. I think it's the next month we have him coming in and then right after that, we were out to a Z and we'll see Alex Hermozzi. And so there's actually an interview a few months ago that Chris did of Alex and I was listening to him. It was a really good conversation. So check it out if you like either one of those guys.

Starting point is 00:28:58 But Chris brought something up that I've never heard someone say before and I thought it was a really interesting point, I guess. He says that he's been kind of toying around with this idea that we all have a different materialism set point. And I thought, oh, that's a really interesting. Like how much material stuff we want, what we feel comfortable with. Right, right. Before it's start down, right?

Starting point is 00:29:27 Well, before the, like, we've talked, and we know this, like the studies to support that, if you're poor and you have no money, like you get happier. Yeah, you get happier, right? So a material set point is at one point, everybody has a point where they reach peak happiness, and then it's either plateaues are actually

Starting point is 00:29:48 dips down afterwards. So he's like, I think that there's this, there's this, and I think that it's unique to the individual. I mean, we've, everyone's met that friend who's like, I could live in a trailer, and as long as they have their basic needs met there, as happy as they can get, and they have no desire for things. Think of other people that feel like they need this, you know, 10,000 square foot house to feel like they're comfortable or whatever.

Starting point is 00:30:10 So I thought that was a really interesting conversation. And do you guys think that you have figured out what your materialism set point is in your life? And have you noticed that because everyone's at a place, I think financially where they've probably reached that or maybe beyond that you don't get any happier and do you remember how you came about figuring that out? Like, oh, like, he, like, Hermosi talked about how they ended up buying like this massive house at one point

Starting point is 00:30:41 and then realized like, you know, it was so big that they needed someone to take care of the cleaning and they needed someone to take care of the upkeep of the pool and he's like, you know, landscape, or he's like, before you know, it was like, we had another business that we had to manage and they realized like, man, I don't feel any happier having all this extra space. I would rather get rid of all these people we have to manage now and live in something more modest. And then if we need big stuff, we'll travel to it for vacations or things like that.

Starting point is 00:31:08 I thought that was really interesting. And so, do you feel like you guys are still figuring that out for yourself or do you feel like you've already kind of figured that out? And then if you have already figured that out, what were were those key signs or indicators that made you feel that way? That's a good question.

Starting point is 00:31:24 You know what's interesting too about that is if you have any insecurities around feeling secure, I guess, then that's probably gonna skew what's gonna make you feel comfortable, you know? So I can see that as well. What do you mean by that? Like, well, if you grew up and money was an issue or a challenge or you know what it's like

Starting point is 00:31:43 to not be able to pay bills, stuff like that, or when you're a kid, it was unstable. You may feel more comfortable, you know, with more and more because it's an insecurity, right? So I can see how that can make an impact, or maybe even the reverse. I would think it'd be the reverse. I would think you think, you need, that was my experience. My experience was, that's how I grew up. I assumed that I needed so much more in order to feel good. And I, once you reach that, surpass that, surpass that, it kind of clicks, you go, oh shit, no I don't. Like, that's my own insecurity that's telling me

Starting point is 00:32:18 that I think I need all this. And so, I mean, I- I'm such a self-aware person. You're not the typical person, you know what I mean? The typical person is not nearly a self-aware, and so, but anyway, my point is, boy, so many things play a role in that. I mean, for me, I don't need much at all,

Starting point is 00:32:34 and I identified this for me a long time ago. I like to have, I wanna have enough space to where, you know, my kids have a bedroom. I, that's it. I like to not have to worry about money. So as far, now what does that mean for me? I like to eat out here and there. I like to go on vacations a couple of times a year.

Starting point is 00:32:52 I don't need a whole lot. I know that about myself. So if I were to spend more money, it would be on experiences. Now did you, did you find yourself over time coming to that conclusion or have you felt like you've always been aware that even when you were young and super young and ambitious ambitious you were like, yeah, I only need to get to about this point. My ambition was never, wasn't really ever motivated by the money. It was more motivated by the success

Starting point is 00:33:17 and accolades and then look, I could accomplish. But the money was like a nice side effect of it. So I was never like, oh, I want to hit this dollar amount and I hit that dollar amount. It was more like, I want to be able to be the top person in this category or I want to be able to build my business to this. So that's kind of always more like winning more than you actually like money. Yeah, now, I've never been in a position where money

Starting point is 00:33:40 was super challenging for me. So I don't know what that would look like, right? Maybe once, one time there was one period where I had to live paycheck to paycheck for, but it wasn't very long, it was like a few months. But I just don't need much. I don't need much to feel happy. I like to not worry about it.

Starting point is 00:33:56 In other words, if something were to happen and I were to make no money, I like to have at least six months to a year's worth of savings, uh, where I would be okay. That's kind of where, but I, but again, what does that mean for, for personal person? No. Okay. So it doesn't sound like you had like this epiphany or this time in your life where this really came, came, came for sure. Justin, did you have a time where you're like, you realize this? Um, yeah. So for me, it was really the intensity of, of paycheck to paycheck and kind of digging myself out of a massive hole was when Courtney was pregnant with Ethan.

Starting point is 00:34:30 And we were living with my in-laws for a bit, for a couple months, and I was like stacking as many it to the very end as a nurse and then trying to build up as much for maternity leave after that. And it was like, we were just on the pure hustle. I didn't, I didn't sleep much. Like I was just kind of in and out. I didn't even want to stay at my in-laws. And so it was like, to me, it's kind of a blur because it was just like, it was so much Intensity around of like me getting out of that situation. And I was very thankful that they allowed me to do that to save around here in California was huge and and then we finally were able to Kind of go and I considered about like renting and we were renting before, but we really wanted to have that kind of security and stability.

Starting point is 00:35:28 So we were able to kind of put our money towards this real sort of house that was like just modest and had potential for me to be able to build and grow the family with. And so that was like, okay, I got to now put all of my skills into this and then try to build a comfortable environment for for my family in this situation and so it was just I think it was a lot of just out just running and not

Starting point is 00:35:59 Necessarily considering that it things could get easier until I got to a point where considering that things could get easier until I got to a point where, you know, the paychecks were getting better and bigger and I was able to kind of keep her forever it off longer, but then it set us back again. It was kind of like went all the way back because I did a full year for off work and it was all dependent on whatever income I was bringing in. So honestly, it wasn't until like our stuff really started to take off here at Mind Pump to where I felt like, oh wow, like the intensity of the basic necessities and being able to cover all this stuff was sort of lifted.

Starting point is 00:36:40 And I'm like, wow, this is a totally different feeling for me. I always felt like I was like, just this hamster on a wheel, just trying to grind like the whole button for me was just grind. I'm going to work my way through whatever is presented to me. So just having that kind of lift and being able to now consider like, I don't have to go through the punishing kind of, I have to do all these things and put all my shoulders anymore, was enormous.

Starting point is 00:37:14 Honestly, I feel like the size of my house now, the access for them to be able to walk to school, like just the overall flexibility of our business, what we're doing with growth in this business. I honestly, I'm already there. So I feel like I'm super content. What do I, you done? Yeah, so when I was younger, I thought,

Starting point is 00:37:38 I had these massive visions of great wealth, big house, all the amenities that go along with being very wealthy. And, but the reality was that I struggled for a lot of years. I had debt, I didn't make a lot of money. And so, all during that time, I held this vision of, you know, making all this money, but now that I don't have any debt and bills are paid, I have a lot more contentment in my life. So I hit a point where it's like, okay, I don't need to live in a massive place,

Starting point is 00:38:11 even though I still have goals about, say, building a bigger house and things like that. I feel like, you know, anything extra as far as that is concerned is not really going to add to the quality of my life a whole lot. As Sal mentioned, I think think experiences are really probably the thing that's going to add the most to the quality of your life traveling for me is very important. So yeah, I mean, I'm not, I still have a lot of goals, okay. But I don't feel like those goals are going to change my life in a substantial way. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:44 Yeah. And to add, like add, in terms of being content, I still look at anything now as a reflection of our own success and where we're going. I'm very much attached to the trophy just because of sports and everything else, being able to elevate and achieve new things. I'm driven by that still. That's the big driver for me is the like,

Starting point is 00:39:06 where can I go that I've never been? I always want to go to the next level where I've never been. Yeah, yeah. I actually think that we're all really actually similar in this area. I think that our materialism set points are just a little bit different. But as far as our philosophy around what we're looking

Starting point is 00:39:21 for what we want, I think it's all, it's actually more, I think it's more similar than it's not. It's just, there's different stuff. Yeah, like would you wanna live in a 10,000 square foot? No, no, no, I know that already. I mean, I'm in 4,000 square feet for just Katrina and I and Max. I mean, that's it, that's plenty.

Starting point is 00:39:38 Oh yeah, it's more than enough. I mean, even this next move that we're doing, we're gonna downgrade slightly in space, not a lot, but enough that I'm like, there was a whole room that like never got used. It's like, yeah, it's a little wasteful. Like there's no need for that. I would rather have land than a big house.

Starting point is 00:39:55 You know what I'm saying? Like space where I could do things on there, like I've always wanted to build a gym, you know, and maybe build like a guest house, but I wouldn't necessarily want like a massive. You know why? Because then your kids, you don't even see your kids. They're in the room over here over there. you know, and maybe build like a guest house, but I wouldn't necessarily want like a massive, you know why? Because then your kids, you don't even see your kids.

Starting point is 00:40:07 They're in the room over here over there. You got a text on the phone to come, haven't come downstairs, you know? It's just, Yeah, no, there's definitely drawbacks to, you know, bigger and more. I mean, the, the, you get that much space and that to maintain it becomes like another job

Starting point is 00:40:21 or more work and it's like, oh, you know, that's, so there, I do think there's a happy medium there. I mean, I learned my it's like, oh, you know, that's, so I do think there's a happy medium there. I mean, I learned my lesson before actually mind pump, you know, so I kind of reached that financial place that I was chasing when I got into cannabis. So this time around for me, when, you know, going through this whole process, I had such a better relationship with money

Starting point is 00:40:42 and materialistic things and like that. And I like nice stuff. There's no doubt, like I don't try and deny or hide that. But my relationship with it is so different. I think I'm like, I align a lot with dogs kind of attitude and philosophy is I love nice things, but I can also not, you know, it's not. It's not.

Starting point is 00:41:01 Yeah, I already recognize that more of those nice things aren't gonna make me any happier as a person. So, but I like the option. I like the idea that, you know, if I wanna do that, or if I want that, I can, you know, and I, but I choose many times not to. I don't know, I mean, I just did it two nights ago, where I'll, you know, if that feel like I think I really want

Starting point is 00:41:23 something, I'd shop it all in the shopping cart, you know, and it's not even crazy amount of money for me to say yes and send it and then I go, you know, do you need it? Do I really need it? I've already got enough of those things like that. Tomorrow, if I still feel that passionate about it, you know, I didn't buy it.

Starting point is 00:41:40 You know, Arthur Brooks says that part of the, one of the keys to happiness is not getting, it's not having more, it's wanting less. He said, for a lot of people, for most people, that's the key. It's not, it's just wanting less. It's not getting more. And that makes, to me, that makes a whole lot of sense. It's like, there was, I can't, you know, there was this one article I read years ago,

Starting point is 00:42:04 and then I remember I was talking to my dad about it because my dad grew up very differently than I did. He was very poor when he grew up. And I read this article and it said that there's the myth that it's more expensive today than it was 60 years ago. And they said, the reason why people think it's more expensive is we don't compare apples to apples. We have more bills for more stuff that we don't necessarily need. He goes, but if you lived the way someone did 60 years ago where you don't have three

Starting point is 00:42:31 cars in car payments, you don't have all these streaming services. I grew up, my first computer that I had was when I was 20 something years old. I mean, now in our house, we've got four laptops, a computer, we all have a computer in our phone. You know what I'm saying? That was a luxury to have something like that. Well, that's what this article said. It said that.

Starting point is 00:42:55 Literally said, actually, if you compare Apple's to Apple's, it's far less expensive today than it was back then. The difference is we've changed our wants. We want more, more, more, we think we need more, more, more when in reality, and that's why I mean, I would say that's one of the factors that's playing into the depression and anxiety. 100% I think you brought it up a long time ago, and I guess I never really thought about that until you had brought it up on one show. There's a long time ago. When you talked about somebody who would be considered in poverty today, if you just took

Starting point is 00:43:33 what was in their place where they live and you compared it to somebody 150 years ago or whatever, like they would be wealthy compared to that. When you look at, they would have, they probably have a little TV, they have a microwave, they have, they have these things that would be like, and that's not, I'm saying 150, probably not even 100. No, no, you go, listen, a person today who's, let's say, lower middle class

Starting point is 00:43:55 or even in poverty today has access to things that didn't exist a thousand years ago when kings existed. So they have more than a king did a thousand years ago, right? So that just goes to show you, the problem is the comparison. It's the other guy has more than I do, and then it's the wants. I think I want that, that's what I need.

Starting point is 00:44:16 That's what I need. And so that's never ending in it results and just feeling like shit. I told Jessica this, I said, I would rather, I would prefer to, if I had a choice of retiring with a big old house, I said, I would rather, I would prefer to, if I had a choice of retiring with a big old house, manch whatever, or her and I live for six months in the year in a townhouse in different parts of the country,

Starting point is 00:44:35 one time in Hawaii, one time over here, I'm like, I would be way, I would way enjoy that, living in an apartment or something for three to six months of the year and other parts of the world versus having this massive. For me, I feel like that would be so much more fulfilling than have this huge like, you know, crazy house or whatever. Yeah, I like the, I like this.

Starting point is 00:44:52 I mean, obviously I probably have more space than the necessary out of everybody. My favorite part about that is that it's, it's solved a lot of issues with, you know, our relationship of I'm, I'm a bit of a neat freak. And if there's clutter, that sorts of clutter on the counters and things like that. That really, so the fact that I have so much extra space, there's a place for me to put things all of each other and I gotta do that.

Starting point is 00:45:19 I value, do you purge annually? Do you like throws you in? I do, I do. I just did it in my closet the other day, especially with us having an apparel business, we have so many different things. Just because brutal with that. Brutal with purging.

Starting point is 00:45:32 Show throw, shit. I am too, but Katrina's hard. Katrina's really hard to, she holds on to her stuff, she holds on to maxes stuff, and I'm just like, and this is like, you, you haven't wore it any, my rule is this, if it's in my closet and I purge it annually and I didn't wear it for the year, it's gotta go.

Starting point is 00:45:50 Yeah, unless it has some sentimental value to it, like, oh, this was my first jersey I ever bought. I mean, that's different, like that's something that I'll probably save and then turn it into a fucking quilt. Every time I was from now. I was able to do what my dad did because he proved a point to my mom once.

Starting point is 00:46:04 So obviously four kids and growing up. Probably hid something in the middle of the go. Well, it was so hilarious. So growing up, my two sister shared a room so that we could have what was called a play room. And this is where we had our TV and toys and shit like that. And my dad was always like, there's too much crap in here. The kids don't need it.

Starting point is 00:46:20 I'm gonna throw it all the way. What am I? No, don't throw it away. These are the kids stuff. So my dad did is without anybody knowing, he went in there with garbage bags, took like 70% of the shit out of there, didn't throw the garbage bag away.

Starting point is 00:46:32 Just hid in the garage. Hit it, waited for like a month, nobody noticed. And he goes, do you even notice that took 70% of stuff out there? That's the first time I caught the garbage. The first time I cleared Max's stuff, that's how I did it. Because that was kind of an argument back forth. and I'm like, you know what I'm just going to do it. I'm not going to say nothing, and I put in the garage.

Starting point is 00:46:48 And like, nobody knew. I'm not doing that funny. Yeah, so, yeah, I know I'm good about Persian. All right, so let me talk about Felix Gray, because that's our next sponsor. But I have a study on blue blockers here that I thought was pretty phenomenal. So this was a randomized trial where they had people where blue blockers, three hours before sleep versus just regular glasses. Significant improvement in sleep quality, significant, like a big difference. And this is cool because it's easy. It's so easy to just put

Starting point is 00:47:21 on. You don't have to change your electronic habits. You don't have to change your electronic habits you don't have to change your lights you have to do anything all you have to do It's three hours before bed. Like what they did here in the study is you put on your you know whatever your blue block or your Felix grade glasses Go about your day Felix rate doesn't change the color of everything so they're not red or orange so you could just enjoy your your normal day And then go to bed and you'll get better sleep How were they in the study? How are they measuring quality of sleep or to show, like what was the marker that was improved by so much? Was it how long they slept?

Starting point is 00:47:51 How quick they fell asleep? Was it all the above? Yeah, so sleep diaries. So people reported, so you know what's interesting about this by the way, is that you can have measures of better sleep if they hook things up to you and you might not necessarily perceive them. You don't measures of better sleep if they hook things up to you and you might not necessarily perceive them. You don't necessarily perceive better sleep unless it's significant.

Starting point is 00:48:09 So you can have better like, you know, REM for sleep and you know, you went to sleep, you know, 15% faster than before. And the person might be like, I think I'm feeling better. But when people report like, oh my God, I feel way more rested, it's pretty significant. So these are the kind of studies I like on this because okay, great, Rem, you know, whatever went up 15%, like did the person perceive that? Is that like a big deal? And on this one, with the sleep diaries,

Starting point is 00:48:35 it was significant. You've got like big difference. How consistent are you guys all personally? I'm really, Vix Gray is one of the things I do like religiously, so I'm really good about. I'm consistent if we don't do the lights down thing, but we're really good with that. Jessica's like, sun goes down, it's candles or dim-ass lights,

Starting point is 00:48:52 no TV, no nothing, and we're good. Now if I put TV on, I might put them on. Yeah, I go in spurred, so I always notice the difference. Even today, just memory recall for me and what I'm trying to bring up, if I haven't had good sleep, totally affects the way that I communicate. So it's like it's, it's frustrating. It, it, it promotes me to incorporate like this ritual, like really get back on track. Yeah. It does. You, you, you, because you're up late a lot of times looking at work.

Starting point is 00:49:17 Well, lately I've been up till midnight the last three nights. Yeah. Um, and I have been wearing the glasses. Yeah. There was a while there though I wasn't. I was getting the bed. There was a while there, though, I wasn't. I was getting the bed earlier, but I decided I better get back at it. I mean, I always, I always take little breaks off that where I'm inconsistent with it, but it's a short one for me, because I notice it. You notice it. I notice it right away. It's your consistent. You notice it when you stop. That's a big time. That's what I tell because sometimes someone, like, I've had people buy them,

Starting point is 00:49:42 and they'll do them, and then they'll be like, yeah, I don't know. I don't really know. It's different. I was like be consistent for a while. Stay consistent with it and then remove it and then tell me how you feel. Like that's how I really connected it. Like, oh, wow, this is making a bigger difference than I realized. All right. So I want to give a shout out to a social media page and we're doing this. Oh, yeah. You got some great idea. Adam, when you came up with it. So the page is called, let's see, at Barbell Films, Barbell with one L films on Instagram. I like, so you guys know the kind of stuff I'm into. It's old school old time. Yeah, it's old school old time. You know, you know, is there any

Starting point is 00:50:20 space? Is there any space on the at Barbell films? Or is it just at barbell films? Let me see, maybe it's two. No, no, it's two Ls, I'm an idiot. It's two Ls. At barbell with two Ls films, I misspelled it. So if you go there, you see like old time strong man, strong women. For example, there's a picture here of Katie Sandwina

Starting point is 00:50:41 in 1910 and she's literally holding three men in her arms like babies. So she's got one guy on one arm and two guys in the other arm and this is a woman in 1910. This is back when I mean gosh if a woman did anything that involved strength. Oh, I'm a dummy. I was putting AT in front of barbell films. Oh, instead of the at-sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah. why can't I find it, dude? So it's cool because they have in here men, women, it's all like another one, there's a female again.

Starting point is 00:51:13 Leverie, Vela, Ne, Ne, Ne Cooper. Her stage name was Charmone. This is in 1905. This was a early bodybuilder and Vodville trapeze artist and they show we're flexing their biceps in their back. Remember, this is before supplements, steroids, before anything. It's pretty remarkable stuff

Starting point is 00:51:31 and they'll show like, you know, strength feats and stuff like that. So I like this again because this is before Photoshop, this is before, you know, they're doing crazy things with lighting. There's no debates on these bodies natural or not. They are natural. They didn't even have that shit. It's as natural as they could get in the air.

Starting point is 00:51:50 I don't even think they had protein powder in them. That's what I mean. It's as natural as you could get right here. Pretty amazing stuff. That's cool. Hey, check this out. There's a company called Joy Mode. And this company was created because the products on the market are terrible. And they knew they could do better. Prescriptions, first of all, come with all sorts of side effects, but Joy Mode makes natural and science-based

Starting point is 00:52:10 wellness products for men, specifically for men. Go check them out. Go to usejoymod.com-flour-slash-mind-pump and then use the code MindPump at checkout for 20% off your order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Will from Georgia. out for 20% off your order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Will from Georgia. Will, what's happening, man?

Starting point is 00:52:28 How can we help you? Hey guys, doing. Appreciate you having me on. Yeah, man, thanks for calling. So basically, I'm in a predicament kind of, currently on a bulk, sitting at about 170, trying to get to 180, 190. However, I'm starting law enforcement training here pretty soon, which is heavy heavy cardio intense cardio. So I was just curious

Starting point is 00:52:54 on how I could balance like building muscle and gaining weight, but at the same time having to do tons of cardio. Yeah, it's a tough one because there's kind of competing signals going on, but really your best strategy, first off, would be appropriate strength training. So if you're doing like a lot of cardiovascular type training, then maybe one day a week of strength training would be what you'd want to stick to, because too much strength training on top of lots of cardio will really burn your body out.

Starting point is 00:53:21 And then the second piece, and this is the most important, stay fed. Yeah, you got to eat more. Yeah. You just got to really feed yourself. And if you then the second piece, and this is the most important. Stay fed. Yeah, you got to eat more. Yeah. You just got to really feed yourself. And if you're not gaining weight, that means you're not eating enough. And there are strategies to help yourself with something like this. For example, you could add, I don't know if you can have dairy, but like glass of whole

Starting point is 00:53:36 milk with each meal will add like six, seven-hundred calories right there. But you got to lift weights appropriately, meaning in the context of what you're currently doing. And then really feed yourself, and it's, you know, especially when you're doing lots, lots of cardio, defeating yourself is gonna be like an all-day, you know, consistent, everyday thing, otherwise it's gonna be hard to put on any size.

Starting point is 00:53:56 This is gonna sound like, kind of, contradicting advice that we normally give to people as far as like health, right? That I think helped me a lot, because I remember playing basketball and trying to do this at the same time and the first kind of hack that I had was Loading up with a sugar drink before I played and then having another one afterwards So I'd have like something and by the way, I'm not there's better healthy choices But I just can tell you what I did just be just being honest. I had a sugar loaded rock star, like 380 calorie rock star,

Starting point is 00:54:28 before I went and played basketball. And then afterwards, I'd have like a thousand calorie jambajus. And that right there, like as long as I had it before, and after I did this intense hour to two hours of cardio, seemed to like mitigate the muscle loss and keep my calorie intake high.

Starting point is 00:54:47 And it was easy for me because it was liquid to get in there in addition. So I ate like I normally would, all my meat and rice type of meals. And then if I knew I was gonna do intense cardio for an hour or more, I'd hit a sugar drink before and after, and that really helped.

Starting point is 00:55:02 Are you able to pick the type of cardio you're doing or is this just like mandatory? Like you have it all prescribed already. For the training, it's mandatory, which is mostly just running. But then there's also like some, I guess body weight things like burpees and like calisthenics type of things.

Starting point is 00:55:22 Currently I'm just riding the bike and like walking up hills with a heavy pack on, but pretty here soon, it's gonna be just strictly like long runs. Yeah, how many days a week are they making to do all this? I don't know exactly yet, but if I had to gauge probably three or four. Okay, I'm gonna send you, do you have a map

Starting point is 00:55:41 sent a ballac wheel? I do not know. Okay, let me send you a map sent a ballac, and I would suggest that you follow one foundational workout a week, if the cardio that they're doing with you is let's say two days a week, then you can do two days of foundational workouts. But if you're doing three,

Starting point is 00:55:57 if it's three hard cardio days, then just do one, okay? Now, there's another program that I think would also benefit you, which would be Maps 15. This is 15 minutes a day of some strength training or 20 minutes if you do the advanced version today. That's going to be a great routine to carry you through when you do become a law enforcement officer because it's every single day, it's easy to stay consistent. It's not a ton of stress on the body and you still see strength gains.

Starting point is 00:56:24 I was able to hit a PR in deadlift training this particular way. So, but maps and a ball, it's the one I'll send you. Cause I think one of those foundational workouts a week will work well with what you're currently doing. Awesome. Appreciate that. No problem.

Starting point is 00:56:37 And you got it. And then you taking these supplements? Creatine and then pre-workout sometimes. Yeah, your set. Creatine was the one I was gonna recommend. your set, aside from things that can add extra calories like protein shakes or you know, gainer shakes. I know I just recommended gainer shakes, but I'm thinking of this case that may actually help.

Starting point is 00:56:55 Yeah, I've been, I've been bulking for I guess two months now and a lot of protein shakes, Crateen like I said, rice, chicken, beef, the whole essentials basically. Good deal. All right, man. Yeah, as much fast, which cardioes you can do, I know they'll probably have you do long endurance runs, but if you can change and structure it in a way that you have control over, I would do, you know, focus a little bit more on head or like, sprints to, to try and preserve muscle. Yeah, it's more muscle-sparing for sure. Right, right. All right, man, well thanks for calling in.

Starting point is 00:57:31 Awesome, appreciate you guys. You guys really, thank you. You know, at the end of the day, weight gain or weight loss, now I'm not saying necessarily muscle or fat, okay, because that's then it gets more complicated, but just weight, you know, you eat more, you eat less. And if it gets more complicated, but just wait. You know, you eat more, you eat less, and if you're not gaining, you've got to eat more. And you can definitely gain weight while doing tons and tons of cardio.

Starting point is 00:57:53 Now, the muscle aspect, that can make it real tricky, because you can gain body fat and do lots of cardio. If you're not sending the right muscle building signal or if you're overdoing the cardio, nonetheless, the calorie piece of this equation is I think where people miss because they're like, oh, I can't get you away, I can't get you away. And it's like, well, you know, jump your calories up 500 to 1000.

Starting point is 00:58:12 And then watch what happens. And it's true. It's an energy, you know, in versus energy out thing. And it works every single time. You just might not be eating as much as you think. It's really interesting how, whether you're trying to increase calories

Starting point is 00:58:24 or reduce calories, how our body has this like homeostasis, anything outside of that is hard. I don't care what you're trying to do. And I think in a case like this, which is why I gave crazy advice of like sugar drinks and jambajus because I understand when you go from somebody who like is almost probably force feeding or really focused on eating ton of calories Just to get yourself in a normal bulk and then I'll say and you start running every day for an hour What about that?

Starting point is 00:58:52 Total drastic change. It's huge and and it was already hard for you to hit that calorie and take as it is and then now your body is Demanding an extra three to five hundred more every single day And maybe you have one or two days where you're good and you hit it, but then you go back down to normal, especially if you're not tracking and paying attention. Along those lines, when it comes to gaining, if it's challenging for you to get enough calories for whatever reason, this right here, what I'm about to say, makes a massive difference. Start your day off with a high calorie breakfast. We don't want to do is end up around noon or 1 p.m.

Starting point is 00:59:25 Try to keep it ketchup. And yeah, and you're behind the eight ball, because then it sucks. It really does suck. If you start with like a big breakfast and you know, choose foods that are easy to digest, right? You don't want to be bloated all day, but eat a big breakfast.

Starting point is 00:59:36 That makes a huge difference. Our next caller is Landon from North Carolina. Landon, what's happening? How can we help you? Bella's how we doing this morning? Doing good, man. Good. Right on.

Starting point is 00:59:49 Appreciate you guys taking the time to talk with me. I got a question for you all, but before I dive into that, I just want to say the obligatory thank you. You know, after years of hammering myself in the gym, and, you know, not really knowing why I was plateauing, finally feeling like I can get some concrete truth and real information from you guys. So truly appreciate what you do.

Starting point is 01:00:10 Thank you. I've also introduced you to some of my family. Shout out my brother, Mollonil Wagstaff. He's running anabolic right now and loving it. Awesome. He's got my wife running starter too. So she's a big fan of that, trying to convince her if the reverse died but

Starting point is 01:00:25 struggling a little bit there but we'll get her soon. Excellent. So just some quick background. I'll try to make it quick. I know you guys are busy. Play basketball on college. Did a lot of explosive movements, cleans, squats, that type of thing. Never really booked to try to put on size. Once I finally graduated, I did try to go on kind of a bros split, bulked a lot, put on muscle pretty rapidly. Within the first eight weeks or so, I gained probably 30 pounds on my bench press, got some stretch marks on my chest, harder stretch marks there. G know, gained way too much weight though. I did a dirty, dirty bulk.

Starting point is 01:01:08 You know, eating McDonald's, watching it down with a Pop Tart smoothie, I mean, I was getting after it. So put on way too much fat, but also gained muscle incredibly fast. Start working out about a year after that for the next five years, got back into it during COVID and did, you know, bulks and cuts on and off from there.

Starting point is 01:01:29 Most recently did a cut down to about seven and a half percent body fat and it worked my way up to about 10 percent. Now, running anabolic, loving it, amazing program, got some more of your programs as well, a plan on starting. When my question is, I'm doing a clean bulk right now, and my muscle gain, while it's happening, I'm gaining strength, gaining muscle, I can see it. It's still not as fast as that initial dirty bulk I did five or six years ago. And I'm wondering if there's any science around, I know a long-term dirty bulk sort of

Starting point is 01:02:04 a poor strategy, but in eight weeks or so, scientifically, do you put on more muscle mass doing a dirty bulk? Or was that just a one-off thing where all the factors might have been right in my life where I can't muscle that quickly? All right, this is a cool question. Yeah, so, okay, there's a couple of things

Starting point is 01:02:21 we wanna consider with this. One is you were a collegiate athlete. And at that level of sports, you're on the, on the, I don't know, the better end of genetics when it comes to muscle building. So your body is going to build more muscle probably faster than most average people. So that, you've got that going for you.

Starting point is 01:02:41 Okay, so let's consider that. Number two, eating a, eating a dirty bulk, especially initially, probably will put on a little bit more muscle. The challenge though is when you measure lean body mass, that's also measuring water. And you tend to hold more glycogen, more water, with more calories.

Starting point is 01:02:59 That's considered lean body mass, is not body fat. So sometimes it's hard to separate. And I know there's body fat tests and stuff, but they're not super necessarily accurate with that. And then the other thing to consider is, okay, let's say you could gain 10 pounds with a cleaner bulk and let's say 8 pounds of that is muscle or you could gain 15 pounds, but you know, 9 or 10 pounds of it is muscle. Is that really a worthy tradeoff? I mean, if you're starting off a 6% body fat maybe, because you don't really care about

Starting point is 01:03:30 adding extra body fat at that point, but for a lot of people, it's not worth it because then when they go and they try to back out, they end up losing that extra pound or two that they gained eating all that stuff. And then of course, there's the health implications. It's just not healthy for your body. Now you're young

Starting point is 01:03:45 so you're probably not gonna see a lot in that way, but as you get older you may notice that eating that way it's just not gonna start, it's not gonna work for your body, you're gonna notice issues with your health. Maybe long-term digestive issues can start to become an issue. I know I suffered from those because of the way I would you know quote-unquote bulk was younger. And then lastly, you will see more strength oftentimes with more body fat gain. And that has to do with energy, it has to do with leverage, CNS output might be better. So my power lifters tend to carry more body fat

Starting point is 01:04:17 and find that they're stronger in doing so. And so that can mess with you a little bit. Like I've done this where I've gained more weight, maybe not as much more muscle, but a lot more body fat, but my strength was a lot higher. Like what's the value of that? I don't know. You know, it depends if I was competing, I guess, in an open weight class, I might be okay. Or if I like to, you know, have certain PR numbers just for my own ego, that might be okay. But as I've gotten older and trained more people, I just see they're just, they're just more value in trying to minimize fat gain than there is in just trying to gain as much as possible,

Starting point is 01:04:51 unless I'm dealing with someone who's super shredded, in which case gaining some body fat is a good idea. You also have to consider that when you dirty bulk, right, we tend to be way more calories than we necessarily need to in order to bulk. And what you potentially do when you do that is actually add fat cells to the body, which makes it increasingly more difficult when you go back to cutting. So this was like really common in the bodybuilding world I'd end with my peers.

Starting point is 01:05:18 So with my peers, I would see like some of my buddies would, they'd be in the bulk part of getting ready for a show, and they would just eat everything in sight. And I'd see him put on 30, 50 pounds, all to try and cut that back. And what I'd see what happened is every time they go to back to a cut, for the next show,

Starting point is 01:05:37 it was increasingly more difficult for them to get as lean as they had did before, doing the same stuff, doing just as much cardio, dieting the same way, and they would much cardio, dieting the same way, and they would be confused, and it'd be like, man, what's happening is every time you go back to this bulk, you bulk so aggressively, your body's gotta be adding fat cells, and so you're making it that much more difficult

Starting point is 01:05:56 for you to lean out. Also, back to kind of what Sal was saying, there is a little bit of deception there on how much muscle you're putting on, because when you're dirty, bulking your end of the cow, you're filled up with extra water, you're filled up with extra glycogen. So the muscle bellies look filler.

Starting point is 01:06:13 So you look like you're putting on more, and I know coming from being a skinny kid who was trying to build how that psychologically can fuck with you a little bit, oh man, this is working. I feel better. But then it's, it's just that much more difficult when you cut. And then when you cut, what ends up happening, you have to cut so hard to get off that, and create that extra body fat you put on, you end up with the same

Starting point is 01:06:35 amount of muscle or sometimes even a little bit less when you get back to the desired body fat percentage that you want. And so what I have found works really well is, okay, I want a clean bulk, but then when I'm a leaner guy, if I carry myself, it's six to 10% type of body fat. Hey, when I go out on Friday night with my wife and we eat, like I'm not gonna trip out if I have some dessert or so I'm gonna enjoy.

Starting point is 01:06:58 So in that sense, I wouldn't call it like- There's some flexibility. Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't call it like a dirty bulk, but then I'm also not really worried too much. I keep myself relatively lean. I eat most of my calories through good choices of food, but hey, it's Friday night with my wife,

Starting point is 01:07:13 and I'm in a bulk anyways. So tonight I'm gonna have that pizuki after I have that steak and rice or whatever like that. So to me, that's how I would allow some of that flexibility of allowing some of those, quote unquote, dirty foods into the diet, but not giving that as an excuse of like, oh, now I mean, pop tart smoothies, and I'm eating, you know, Sourc Patch Candy Kids,

Starting point is 01:07:34 all the like, that type of shit, that's only gonna make it more difficult for you when you go back to lean out. I wouldn't do things like that, but I would give yourself some flexibility in your normal eating diet. And, and, and, and let me rephrase your question, because what, what we're kind of presenting right now is a, is a bit of a false binary or dichotomy, which is, you know, eat clean

Starting point is 01:07:54 bulk, not as many calories or eat a dirty bulk with more calories. Here's the real comparison that we want to look at. Same amount of calories, okay? So both in a bulk, even if it's an excessive bulk, but one of them is made up of foods that are more whole, natural, not fast food, not candy, not what would be considered garbage. The other one includes fast food, candy, garbage. Now, I'm going to tell you from that standpoint, because I've done both and I've trained people who've done both. The whole natural, quote unquote, healthier version, even though the calories are the same,

Starting point is 01:08:25 builds more muscle. It just builds more muscle. The other one tends to gain more body fat. So even if your goal is to just gain as much muscle as possible and you're like, I'm going to just eat way more calories. You're still better off doing it with calories that come from foods that don't mess with your, your palate sensitivity that don't mess with your dopamine that don't mess with your insulin foods, don't mess with your dopamine, that don't mess with your insulin, foods that are on the healthier side. Now, you can do this with, you know, calorically dense, healthier foods,

Starting point is 01:08:53 like you can get ground beef, 80%, 80% ground beef. Mix it with some rice, make your rice with bone broth. You got yourself a high calorie bowl of rice and bone broth and, you yourself a high calorie bowl of rice and bone broth and you know fatty ground beef. Throw in some vegetables if you want some fiber, right? You can, if you can have dairy, whole milk, have a glass of whole milk with every meal, there's some good, you know, dense calories that you're going to get. It's not soda, it's not garbage, it's not, you know, crap, right? So those are just a couple examples of ways you can add

Starting point is 01:09:23 calories with foods that are better for your body. And like I said, when you go apples to apples, 3,500 calories, 3,500 calories or 4,000 calories, 4,000 calories, but one of them is, you know, more, what we would consider healthier or better options, you gain more muscle that way. That's my experience. That's been my experience across the board. And people just feel better too. Like dirty bolts with crappy food just feel like shit. That's another trade off. I don't think it's worth it.

Starting point is 01:09:51 Right. I guess just a quick follow up on that. I appreciate the information. That makes a lot of sense. Just in terms of, and again, I know this can vary so widely, depending on the person and all kinds of factors. But just to try to tamper my expectations for muscle growth and when to expect to see size increase, I mean a rough estimation does that take three months?

Starting point is 01:10:13 Does it take six to nine months or is it hard to really tell? Yeah, it's hard to tell. I would guess, like I said, because of your level of, because you were an athlete at a pretty high level, you're probably gonna build muscle faster than the average person. How tall are you and what's your body weight? You said you're 10% body fat right now? I'm 652.5 and about 10%.

Starting point is 01:10:33 All right, so 205 at 65, you know, boy, I think you could probably get up to 220, 225 with right around the body fat you're at now, with probably a year and a half of good consistent training. I would, I'm gonna give you a guess. Now here's the deal, I could be totally off because genetics make a big difference. But you know, you're hitting all cylinders,

Starting point is 01:10:51 getting good sleep, you're eating good, you're hitting a surplus with your calories, you're getting stronger, you're not losing sleep because you just had a baby or whatever. I know you said you're married. So everything going great, I mean, you could probably gain a good 15 pounds of lean body mass within a year and a half,

Starting point is 01:11:05 two years of consistent, you know, doing it that way. How old are you right now? I'm 31. Okay. A good years. Yeah, yeah, those are good building years. Yeah, for sure. Awesome.

Starting point is 01:11:16 Yeah, awesome. Well, really appreciated guys. That's very encouraging to know and excited about it. I've got Annabelle now. Gonna hopefully run through performance aesthetic. And then I've got anabolic now. Gonna hopefully run through performance aesthetic, and then I've got parallel to strong. So that's gonna be my year to work the program. Are you doing prime or prime pro

Starting point is 01:11:34 to help with the mobility issues? Because when you're packing on muscle like that, you wanna make sure you maintain mobility. Yeah, but I've got prime, so I'm using that every Every single workout definitely can immediately feel the difference, especially my ankles and hips when I squat. So good deal. That's been a game, Dander.

Starting point is 01:11:51 Especially when you're tall like you are. So I'm going to send you prime pro just because it gets a little deeper. So I'll send you that for free. And then a good program to follow up with some of these would be symmetry, especially with someone tall like you. The unilateral stuff tends to work really, really well with somebody that got long limbs.

Starting point is 01:12:06 Awesome, man, thank you so much. I didn't expect that, so I really appreciate it and look forward to putting that in the routine. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. All right, take care. No problem. Yeah, you guys remember, I don't think Justin ever had to deal with this, but...

Starting point is 01:12:19 I don't know. What are you gonna say? Jason's gaining muscle right now, just us talking about it. Yes, true. I know Adam and I, we've gone through this process. Do you remember when you piece together, like, oh, if I eat a lot of calories, it'd make it like whole natural food, I'd just build more muscle. Yeah. I mean, it just blew me away.

Starting point is 01:12:34 Yeah, I wanted to add to that, like in terms of building more muscle through whole food. So there has to be a factor to that if you have gastrointestinal issues. Yeah, this is something I did go through, right? Just pounding a bunch of shakes and just eating whatever I possibly could just for the calorie sake, but really not being able to assimilate a lot of it. A lot of it just went through me with diarrhea, with gas, everything else.

Starting point is 01:12:59 So it's like, you got to consider that's a factor. Yeah, no, there's that. You feel like crap. You're probably not going to work out as well. You're probably not gonna work out as well. You're probably not gonna sleep as well. There's also the behaviors around your food choice too. So like, one of the things that I remember when I was allowing myself to quote unquote dirty bulk

Starting point is 01:13:16 and just kind of eat whatever, right? Just to get extra calories. When I did an assessment on what I was consuming, it was like, okay, sure, I was hitting 4,000, 5,000 calories, but most of it came from carbohydrates or saturated fat, and I was still not hitting my protein intake. That's true.

Starting point is 01:13:33 Because I would gravitate towards these, snacky type foods and desserts and candies, and just heavy carbs. Yeah, they're all heavy carbs, and I'm not getting quality protein from there, and then I look at my thing, and I'll be like, oh shit, I had 120 grams of protein today, but I had 4,000 calories.

Starting point is 01:13:49 Because it was all in like carbs and sugar and shit like that. So, you know, that's the other thing that I don't like about the process of dirty bulking is that it kind of gives people this past of like, oh, I just eat everything inside. And then, and then hopefully I hit my, you know, targets, my macro targets. But then when you go back and you actually track it all,

Starting point is 01:14:06 you're like, oh, wow, I tend to gravitate towards it. Because honestly, eating, especially for a guy like this, six, five, eating enough calories to put on size for a guy, that tall and lanky and a lot of his chore. Oh, man, probably four or five thousand calories. And you're doing that through steak and potatoes and chicken. I mean, that's hard. So you tend to throw in these calories to try and get it,

Starting point is 01:14:30 get up over that number and then you realize like, oh shit, I'm eating just a bunch of pop tarts and stuff. Just hit that calories. You know, it's interesting. The athletes, the traditional athletes of the world who have really figured out how to gain lots of weight, sumo wrestlers. And if you look at, and sumo has been around for a long time, there's a traditional dish that sumo wrestlers would eat to gain weight.

Starting point is 01:14:53 I don't remember the name of it, maybe Doug can find it, but it's a type of a soup and it's a high calorie soup. And the sumo wrestlers, and remember, these guys don't mind gaining body fat. Obviously, they want to be huge, but they also have to be mobile. They have to move. If you've ever watched sumo wrestlers, you know, fight, they're actually incredibly mobile for guys their size. Super explosive. Very, for guys that, you know, 500 pound, 400 pound, like they can

Starting point is 01:15:15 move. And this suit with the soup called Doug, chunk onabe, chunk onabe. And they will say, these are, these are guys that just want to put on size. They will say, avoid junk food. And they've been, this is something that's been around for a long time. Eating whole natural foods and gaining weight makes you feel better. That's just the bottom line. Our next color is Drew from Nebraska. Drew, it's happening.

Starting point is 01:15:36 How can we help you? Awesome. Hey guys, thanks for having me on, taking the time to answer my questions. A obligatory thank you for everything you do. The last thing about a year and where I'm at right now compared to that, it's very different. So thank you very much. You got it. Just going to go ahead and jump in. I have a couple of questions about nutrition. My life has changed a little bit. I had a little bit more flexible of a schedule. I was used to working out more after work,

Starting point is 01:16:08 early afternoon, and now I am working out first thing in the morning. So 6 a.m. I'm in the gym going out and I'm kind of having trouble with my morning nutrition. Even now, when I occasionally worked out in the afternoon I'm more well fed. I have a chance to eat a couple meals. I don't know if this is a thing or I'm just kind of chasing my tail and the convenience of working out in the morning. I just have to kind of deal with not being as well fed and not being quite ready to go, but I didn't know if he had any advice for where I should be

Starting point is 01:16:51 kind of putting my meals if I should be really eating anything beforehand. Do you guys have anything for me there? Yeah, well, that's a little carbs at night. Well, yeah, he wrote that actually too. He says he eats a pretty good meal before bed. What time do you wake up? You work out at six? What time do you wake up? 5 a.m. I try to

Starting point is 01:17:09 Get up a little bit and move around before I head out that way But you know if I'm meeting anything significant. I'm not gonna really have time to digest it. No. Yeah So pluses with morning workouts It's the people tend to be more consistent. It tends to set the tone for the day Minuses your performance isn't going to be as good. And studies are going to show this across the board. Look, I've been working out first thing in the morning for years. So my body's acclimated to an extent.

Starting point is 01:17:37 But even now, even after years and years of training in the morning, if I wanted to just max out my strength and look at my best performance, I'd do better off in the afternoon. This is just how it is. So you gotta kind of deal with that and be okay with it. But as far as meals are concerned, you just eat right after you're done,

Starting point is 01:17:54 and bring your breakfast with you. This will make it a lot easier. That's what I do. But I eat every morning to everybody's demise and complaints is I have eight hard boiled eggs. So right after my workout, I have eight hard boiled eggs. So right after my workout, I eat eight hard boiled eggs and there's my first meal and I get my proteins, my fats and everything feels great.

Starting point is 01:18:11 So fumes everywhere. Yeah, so I would say, I would say, bring your breakfast with you. So that right after you're done, you can just see, what time are you finished with your workout? Usually by 7, 30 or so, usually it's hour and a half. This is where the creatures have it, sick, bro.

Starting point is 01:18:30 Oh, yeah, well that's super convenient. You could either throw that in cold water and shake it up and actually drink it like a shake. I've actually had it's bomb like that where you have like a thing where you can boil it throw hot water on it, it's good. But so I would experiment too, I don't know how much you've tracked

Starting point is 01:18:44 like what the calories and carbohydrates that you have for dinner, but I would experiment with that, like actually like really loading up at nighttime. If I really load up at nighttime, come morning time, I've still got enough fuel in the tank to actually feel a decent workout, although I hate morning workouts,

Starting point is 01:19:02 so I'm not a fan of them for the reasons that you're explaining right now. It's just not my thing. I don't like to feel as weak as Sal is and I just think that training is weak as I was training in the afternoon keeps Justin and I much stronger than him. So for us, we prefer that.

Starting point is 01:19:17 But, you know, as far videos as far as possible. He is more consistent though, you know, he is more consistent than we are. So I mean, he's got that going for him. So, no, try that, try loading more consistent than we are. So I mean, he's got that going for him. So, no, try that. Try loading some carbohydrates, I think. Trying to get something before that's not gonna happen. And then Sal's point, eat right after.

Starting point is 01:19:32 I love creatures I have it for some of that. It's easy to digest. It's got 30-something grams of protein in it. It tastes good. That's a great post workout type of meal that you can have. But really, try playing around with like, having like a high, high carb dinner and see what that does.

Starting point is 01:19:48 As long as it doesn't disrupt sleep, I would play around with that. You know what I realized too, is that, cause you're just lifting, right? That's all you're doing in the morning. It's not like you're doing a crazy long term cardio workout or anything like that. Okay.

Starting point is 01:20:00 So, cause I was gonna say, if you're doing like real high intensity long, you know, kind of steady state type cardio type workout, you might want to have a carbohydrate drink with you while you're training, but for weight training, not necessary. Here's what I figured out a long time ago, is that I would have like this really crappy performance in the morning workout, and then about halfway through my workout, I would start to feel better, and I started to realize it's because I was didn't drink water. So as soon as you wake up drink like two glasses of water And and that makes a big difference because what I would do is I'd wake up early

Starting point is 01:20:32 I'd get ready brush my teeth the whole thing and then start my workout and then start drinking water while I was working out in 20 30 minutes in I started to feel better and so now what I do is as soon as I wake up I go and I have two big glasses of water about an hour before, 45 minutes before I work out, and that made a huge difference. So try that out too. Got it. I haven't got feeling you were going to bring up creatures I have. I'm intolerant to oats.

Starting point is 01:20:56 Oh. A little rough there, but I've been mainly my card meals or first thing postworked out, and then I've been trying to card meals or first thing postworked out and then I've been trying to do more before bed. Should I just put everything before bed, go just hard on that or just post workout really? You said experiment. I think what Adam said is ideal. Yeah, experiment.

Starting point is 01:21:16 Yeah, play with it. I don't know where you're at if you've actually counted carbohydrates and seen like, oh, you know, because people will say, oh, I have a big dinner. I said, okay, well, what's a big dinner? Oh, I track it for me. And then you go, oh, I eat 40 grams of protein and I have 100 grams of carbs. And then I go, okay, let's try 200 grams of carbs for dinner

Starting point is 01:21:33 and see what happens. So that's what I mean. Figure out kind of where you're at currently right now, increase it by 50% or more, and see how that affects your workout in the morning if you notice a difference. And so long as you digest that amount of carbohydrates fine, you sleep okay, if it improves performance,

Starting point is 01:21:50 that may be an answer for you is to start to backload carbohydrates like that. Perfect. And then if we saw time, I had one other part to kind of the nutrition side. I was in an extended deficit for a better part of two years. I lost about 120 pounds from 2020 to more recently. In that time, I don't think I was probably in a surplus for more than maybe a month of that whole time.

Starting point is 01:22:25 Right now I'm in a bulk, I've been in a bulk since October and I was planning on just going until about February and then around summertime kind of coming back to you. And I've heard you guys talk about being in an extended deficit like that, maybe living in a bulk a little bit longer. And so I feel pretty good, but I just didn't know if you had any more input on that, on how long I should really be saying. I would interrupt it with many one week cuts. Yeah. And then you can bulk for a long time

Starting point is 01:22:54 that way. Yeah. So I mean, you know, you know, your plan is to bulk all the way till like February, whatever. Okay. So just, you know, every, every fourth week, and it doesn't have to be a full week to be honest with you. Every fourth week run three to four days of really low calorie, and then go back. So just interrupt it like that every, every three to four weeks with a three to four days of, of a low, low cow, and then go back the other direction. I think you'll, you'll feel a lot better, and you'll, you'll see a better response. Now, to add to that, in my experience, one of the best ways to do that is to go three to four days of very low carbohydrates. It's an easy way to cut calories during that period of time

Starting point is 01:23:28 and you end up, you know, you're maintaining the essential fats and proteins. Perfect. All right, man. Well, hey, good job on the 120 pound weight loss. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Yeah, and the fact that you're able psychologically to go in a bulk, that's actually really, really difficult.

Starting point is 01:23:44 It's tough. Yeah. It's actually really difficult. It's tough. It's actually putting the carbs back on. Seeing the scale go up and I mean, my muscles are fuller, but just everything else is a little rough here there. Yeah, good for you, bro. That takes a lot of discipline to do that. That's probably one of the most difficult things

Starting point is 01:24:00 I had with clients that lost that kind of weight was to. They're so afraid of you. Yes, right. To be able to do what They're so afraid of you. Yes, right. To be able to do what you're doing. So you're doing the right thing. So keep it up. Awesome. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:24:10 You got them, man. Right on. Yeah, that's, you know, as far as the morning workouts are concerned, there's going to be trade-offs and I think this is where people have the challenge. But look, my argument is always going to be with it, is it does make the day better. You tend to have more energy throughout the day. You start your day off on the right foot because you're motivated, you push yourself,

Starting point is 01:24:34 you have a great workout. So it tends to help with work, tends to help with the rest of the day. You tend to be more consistent. And I think for a lot of people, it's not everybody, for a lot of people, when you weigh that out and you add in the, okay, yes, my performance is 5% worse than my workouts,

Starting point is 01:24:49 it's still worth it. It's a net positive. You know, I'll add one more thing that it does too, even though I hate morning workouts, and I wish I would be better about it, is you get better sleep. Yeah, because you start, you start having your caffeine so late.

Starting point is 01:24:59 You start so early, you have your caffeine earlier, you have a longer day, so then when the sun naturally goes down, you have your caffeine earlier, you have a longer day. So then when the sun naturally goes down, you're already kind of exhausted. One of the drawbacks of being a late riser and a late workout person as I am is 9, 10 o'clock at night. I'm still wired sometimes and when I want to stay up where when I do and have discipline myself to get up and train at like six in the morning, shit. Sun goes down and I'm already yawning

Starting point is 01:25:27 and I'm ready to go to bed and then I tend to get really good sleep. So there are definitely those benefits, but I drag ass in the workout. It's tough to power through it. And so I'm always straight off. Yeah, you gotta look at the whole picture is what I tend to tell people.

Starting point is 01:25:40 But if I could work out at the best time for performance, for me would be like noon. It's just I'd lift that noon, but I mean, there's no way I'll be able to make that happen. I'm not gonna be as consistent. And, you know, before noon, we tend to record two podcasts, and I like to come in here after my workout and record.

Starting point is 01:25:58 I'm just sharper, I feel better, so just works out better for me. And I know a lot of people like that, so. Our next caller is Colton from Utah. Colton, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how are you guys? Good, man.

Starting point is 01:26:11 So I have two questions. My first question is, I'm trying to find a balance between like a body building and a powerlifting workout. I tend to find myself leaning naturally more towards some of the powerlifting type stuff, the heavy compound lifts, but I want to also get the benefit of building muscles like in a bodybuilding type workout. So is there a way that you can incorporate both of those into the same training session,

Starting point is 01:26:44 or would it be more efficient to like cycle in a powerlifting phase and then a bodybuilding phase? It's a common question. Well, first off, I want to correct what you said. They both build muscle, okay? So whether you're trained in... They both build a lot of muscle too, but... Yeah, so there's a myth that one builds more than the other.

Starting point is 01:27:03 I mean, if you cycle them properly, you're going to get better results, and if you just stick builds more than the other. I mean, if you cycle them properly, you're gonna get better results and if you just stick to one all the time. So this is a question we get often. Now, in terms of like results in studies, when people are monitored and told what to do, it doesn't matter. If you do, have you work out on Monday,

Starting point is 01:27:21 a lighter hire rep, work out on Wednesday, and so on. But in our experience, it's better to do a cycle of a specific type of training for a few weeks and then move into another cycle of a specific type of training. Mainly because there's a different mindset with the training. And you know this, right? When you do three reps of a squat versus, 12 reps of a squat.

Starting point is 01:27:45 It's a different focus, right? On one of them, it's all about the movement, keeping tight, you hold your breath when you do your left. The other one, it's like smooth, focused on the muscles, the contraction, the stretch, the squeeze, the pump. And that's a hard mindset to get in and out of, okay? It's hard for me to do.

Starting point is 01:28:02 It's hard for me to do and I've been training for a long time. So I prefer being in the mindset of I'm trying to train for strength for the next three weeks and then I'm trying to train in more, have a hypertrophy, you know, style for the next three to four weeks. What is happening is I pick too much weight for my bodybuilding style workouts

Starting point is 01:28:20 or I end up focusing too much on the squeeze in the pump or the lack of the pump when I'm doing the power lifting workouts. But if I'm in that mindset, then that's where I'm at, and it's all good. So it's more of a psychological thing than anything. Yeah, it's a lot easier to acknowledge the intent going in and to be able to refine and fine tune what you're doing in terms of your overall technique, especially if you can place the kind of emphasis on technique, especially while you're powerlifting because it requires so much dedicated focus, I would highly suggest kind of staying in that for a bit. Plus, it's more measurable. So that's the thing is when

Starting point is 01:28:55 you start like combining different methods, it's really hard to kind of tease out what really is working the best and what isn't. So just in terms of those two points, I would try to cycle them both at different times. The main point I would have brought up was what Justin just said. I think that that's the most important thing is that I was notorious for this. Like I trained like all the modalities in one,

Starting point is 01:29:19 I was like every, I used to, in fact, my philosophy was as a trainer, I've never repeated the same workout. Every workout was unique and different because to Salis Point, that's what the studies show. The studies show that if you're continuously moving and changing rep ranges and exercises and modalities, the body's gonna keep adapting and responding, and it's just as good as somebody who's cycling and phasing.

Starting point is 01:29:42 But here's the drawback of that is, it's really hard to Justin's point drawback of that is it's really hard to Justin's point to measure, well what's really working for my body? Like, oh when I train these exercises in this manner, wow, I really notice X, Y, and Z. And you can see that because you're sticking to this something very consistently for three to four weeks and you're not sprinkling other things. Otherwise, you look back after two months of kind of sprinkling a little bit on your like, oh shit. Yeah, I definitely put on some good size.

Starting point is 01:30:09 Oh, what was that from? Was that from my powerlifting training that I was doing? Or was that more from the bodybuilding stuff I was doing? And so it's harder to tease out. What is your body really responding to? And so we tend to lean and push people more. And by the way, there's, I think it's Michael Herne who's the core building.

Starting point is 01:30:26 Yeah, who's coined the power building program where he combines power lifting with bodybuilding and really that's a marketing tool to appeal to someone just like you who goes like, oh, I like power lifting and I want to look like a bodybuilder like this is the perfect program for me. Like, okay, sure. But it really is, in our opinion, better

Starting point is 01:30:44 and more beneficial for YouTube, focus on a phase, a way of training, run, run a program like Power Lift for a while, then run a program like Split, like we have. In fact, do you have any of our programs? I actually don't know. Okay. So I mean, are you more into the power lifting or the body building? Which one do you enjoy the most right now? Myself, I enjoy the powerlifting or the bodybuilding, which one do you enjoy the most right now? Myself, I enjoy the powerlifting more, and I think that's just because, like you guys said, it's measurable and you can see the increase, you can see the results a lot faster.

Starting point is 01:31:14 So I'm gonna have Doug send you over powerlift, and then I would follow that up with MAPSPLIT. I think those, the incombination of running one and then running the next program, you'll get the benefits that you're looking for. Yeah, one more thing I'd like to add here is that I think that I don't want to discount the self awareness and knowing your body or learning your body as you go through this journey of exercise. And I think you learn better and faster when you can stay in a focused modality for a few weeks versus mixing it all up.

Starting point is 01:31:48 You also can experience one of my favorite things. And I don't like I said, if you looked at this over the course of a year, I don't think the results necessarily would be better. However, there's something to be said about the psychological benefit of going for three, four weeks in a modality, then switching and seeing like these really rapid changes in that first week or two. Like when I switch from 12 to 15 reps to three to five reps, in that first two to three weeks, it's like, boom, I see great, but then it slows down and then I switch to something else versus kind of this real slow, consistent,

Starting point is 01:32:19 I like that, like I like the way that feels. I also like knowing how my body feels and how it feels different when I train differently and I can notice signs and signals in my body. For example, when I power lift for too long, I feel it in my joints. When I body build for too long, I just feel burnt out. And it's a different feeling,

Starting point is 01:32:37 both of them are different feelings. So it would be hard for me to pinpoint what's going on if I did it all at the same time. So you'll see when you look at our programs, how they're phased. We don't mix everything up at once. We tend to phase them that way. So you get in power lift and then after that,

Starting point is 01:32:51 I think split would be a good follow up for you, for sure. No, that's awesome. I'm excited to try those. You got it. My second question, I kind of went down to intermittent fasting rabbit hole pretty far. I did it pretty religiously for about two years, lost a bunch of weight, it was great. And now that I have started lifting more, I'm about 12 weeks into lifting pretty consistently now, I've been trying to incorporate

Starting point is 01:33:23 some more meals, some more calories, kind of break out of that intermittent fasting cycle. But it's been a really, really big challenge for me mentally. And it's hard because I really liked the way that I felt when I was intermittent fasting. It seemed like my body really agreed with that. agreed with that. So do you think there's any room for intermittent fasting in like a muscle building, powerlifting space? I mean, there is. It's just going to be harder. You know, if you're trying to eat, you know, I don't know how many calories you're trying to eat here, but if you're trying to eat, you know, 3,500 calories and you're eating window is noon to six. Okay, you're going to be stuffing know, 3,500 calories and you're eating window is noon to six. Okay, you're going to be stuffing yourself and it's not going to feel very good. So I don't think it's a

Starting point is 01:34:10 great way to do it. I would use it as an interrupter, right? So I wouldn't use it as like what you're referring to, like every day having this eating window and trying to do it, like good luck with that. I think that is kind of counterproductive. But if you're like consistently eating four to six meals a day all day long and you've been doing that for a week or two and you're like, hey, you know what, this weekend, I'm gonna intermittent fast because I just feel like I'm feeling a little withhargic or maybe I over did it on Friday night or what I would do.

Starting point is 01:34:40 So hey, tomorrow I'm gonna intermittent fast. Like that's how I would do it. I would interrupt my kind of normal eating routine with the intermittent fast based off of how I feel because you've already said, I feel good on it, it agrees with my body. So when you notice that you've been pushing the food quite a bit and you want to take a break from that,

Starting point is 01:34:57 I think that's a great tool. But using intermittent fasting on a daily basis while also trying to gain strength inside. That's tough. And that is kind of is kind of counter what are your benefits that you notice from fasting you like so much. My mental clarity is 150% better I would say my digestive system really agrees with it less bloated, more consistent energy, just a general, in general, I feel a lot better when I enter. Try this.

Starting point is 01:35:31 Try this. Try eating a lower carb bulking diet and then put your carbs around your workout. So this is like a slick, you know, kind of targeted carbohydrate type of diet. So maybe your carbs are 150 for the day or 100 for the day, which is kind of low for a bulk, especially, you know, I don't know how big you are, but, you know, if you're, you know,

Starting point is 01:35:49 over 180 pounds is real low, I would go carbs before and after my workout. And then the rest of the day, it's keto. That was, I mean, I was going to interject that. That was the biggest thing I found was like, it's carbs calories, like, like, how I was going to manage that. Because I was skipping a lot of breakfast and also, you and also a heavy meal at the end. I would skip that too. I had the bulk of what I would eat was like during that window. And that took a long time for me to kind of bust through

Starting point is 01:36:15 in terms of like, I didn't feel that same kind of strength and energy in my workouts and didn't realize it until I actually started to put work in. And I had to start with like a lot lower calorie intake for breakfast because my bi just didn't want to include that and so it just took some effort but definitely like the the timing of it did play quite a bit of a factor where I would add a bit more carbs right before the workout and then after. So, you know, that's something to play around with. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:36:46 Would you say there's like a certain range of carbs that I need to be in before a workout or kind of just whatever I feel the best? It depends. I mean, yeah, I guess that's the right answer. But I would start with like, you know, start with this, right? If you feel really good on low carb, I would go 50 to 60 grams of carbohydrates about an hour or two before your workout. And then after your workout, your post workout meal would have about 50 grams of carbohydrates. So there you go, 120 grams of carbs. And

Starting point is 01:37:13 that's it for the day. So it's still low carb. And you might even, depending on how much activity you do and how hard you work out, you still might even be able to get an ketosis with that. I know I can get an ketosis with about 100 grams. A carbohydrates if I'm working out, you know, really hard. But look, I don't, I, I even like you. I feel way better eating that way. So, so what I, if I want to maximize my performance and mental acuity, that's how I do it.

Starting point is 01:37:37 I eat my carbs or on my workout. That's perfect. Well, I'm gonna try that and see how that works for me. You guys are home. Yeah, thanks for calling in, brother. Yeah, thank you guys. I appreciate it. Appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:37:49 You got it. You know, it's great about, you know, follow, I guess, you know, kind of doing like a fitness journey and learning about yourself or whatever. You can kind of start to figure this out. And then, you know, as I've said many times on the show, you can use your diet and your workout in ways to improve your life. So like, when I know I'm gonna go,

Starting point is 01:38:10 sometimes I'll go down to LA and I'll do these big podcasts, right? And I'll try to represent the team and I wanna be sharp. I don't care about how much I could squat or deadlift or if I have extra three pounds of muscle. I wanna be sharp on the show. So what do I do?

Starting point is 01:38:24 I make sure I go into ketosis because I want to be sharp on the show. So what do I do? I make sure I go into ketosis because I just feel my sharpest doing that. And I'll utilize fasting and I'll eat no carbohydrates. Now if I want to like hit a new PR on my lift or I know we're going to do a crazy workout or maybe I'm going to be filmed working out which rarely ever happens, but let's say I am. Well then I'll introduce some carbohydrates into my diet and you can do this. You can do this and mess around with it to maximize the quality of your life. You not only can do this, you and you can do this. You can do this and mess around with it to maximize the quality of your life. You not only can do this, you should learn to do this. This instead of becoming a zealot about a single way, right?

Starting point is 01:38:52 Yeah, one way of eating because you've now attached. Oh, keto is for me. Well, okay, for you for what reasons. Oh, you like the mental sharpness. Oh, you like how there's less, you're less bloated. Okay, those are all positive things. But what about when you decide you want to go after a squat PR? Do you think keto is going to be the best thing for you? I'll tell you it's not going to be or what if

Starting point is 01:39:12 I said you decide you want to sign up for a Spartan race with your friends? You think training for that on keto is going to be ideal for you? Probably not. Like so learning about your body and how it responds to all the different ways of eating and then learning how to ebb and flow in that and for what reasons that you change the diet, I just think that everybody, I mean, this is later in my career, this is how I used to train all clients is that when they would, at one point when they would, they would hire me, I would take them through like all the diets, everything. I would take them through all the popular, right?

Starting point is 01:39:48 Whether it be a ketogenic or an intermittent fasting type of deal or a vegan diet. And I'd let, and I'd explain to them as we are, I'm inquiring, how do you feel? What do you notice? Like, okay, cool, you notice that this, you feel this way, in these times in your life, this is a great opportunity to shift to eating like this.

Starting point is 01:40:06 I'm not getting good sleep. I have a protocol for that. I'm feeling some kind of indigestion constantly. I got a protocol for that. I want more performance in the gym. So you just start to figure out what foods pair best of that or what calorie amounts or what timing with the whole thing. And that's very important.

Starting point is 01:40:24 Yeah, and it's all fun. It's all super fun. You know, one thing I did notice on keto, which is really, I need know, obviously the mental acuity or whatever, and it's probably a 5, 10% improvement, so it's not huge, but it's enough to where I can tell. Here's the other weird stuff.

Starting point is 01:40:36 I notice my skin becomes resilient to sunburns, very strange, so I'll fall on keto and I go on the sun. I don't sunburn as easily. I don't get soreres much in my workouts. And those are the two big things that I noticed were really, really strange on a diet like that. So if I'm gonna go out and be on the sun a lot, then I tend to do Keto diet.

Starting point is 01:40:55 Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find us all on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at my pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at my pump Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at my pump cell.

Starting point is 01:41:10 Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps for performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically

Starting point is 01:41:37 transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal and an adjustment as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support,

Starting point is 01:42:13 and until next time, this is MindPump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1969: Dirty Bulk Vs. Clean Bulk for Building Muscle, Ways to Build Size When You Have a High Cardio Job, How to Combine Bodybuilding & Powerlifting & More (Listener Live Coaching)

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.