Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1970: Max Lugavere Gets Personal

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin get personal with Max Lugavere. Max’s Oprah moment. (1:57) His experience on the Tucker Carlson Show. (7:46) The Liver King is a charlatan. (14:04) The real ones are rare. (20:45) His single biggest insecurity. (23:58) Growing up being a curious kid. (30:25) Working through being introverted. (38:03) Always striving to be better. (43:50) His popularity with the opposite sex. (47:25) Working for it rather than being given. (49:50) Relationships and dealing with trauma. (54:23) The joy of being an uncle. (1:05:20) Why music is important. (1:06:48) His relationship with money. (1:09:35) Sodium intake and migraines. (1:11:08) Seed oils affect your cognitive health. (1:12:36) His exit plan to get out of the public light. (1:22:57) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit SleepMe for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! December Promotion: At-Home Holiday Bundle (MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Suspension, MAPS PRIME, and The No BS 6-Pack Formula all for the low price of $99.99!) Genius Foods: Become Smarter, Happier, and More Productive While Protecting Your Brain for Life – Book by Max Lugavere and Paul Grewal #1870 - Max Lugavere - The Joe Rogan Experience Max Lugavere on Alzheimer’s disease: Your diet and lifestyle ‘pull the trigger’ Uncombable Hair Syndrome: Causes, Treatment, and What It Is Irresistible: The Rise of Addictive Technology and the Business of Keeping Us Hooked Unplugged: Evolve from Technology to Upgrade Your Fitness, Performance, & Consciousness – Book by Dr. Andy Galpin iGen: Why Today’s Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy–and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood–and What That Means for the Rest of Us – Book by Jean M. Twenge PhD Visit Magic Spoon for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Visit Drink LMNT for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners!  Research team discovers link between sodium and migraines before pain occurs Omega 3 in Childhood Migraines: a Double Blind Randomized Clinical Trial Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere) Instagram Website Podcast Joe Rogan (@joerogan) Instagram Tom Bilyeu (@tombilyeu) Instagram Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) Twitter Liver King (@liverking) Instagram Joshua Fields Millburn (@joshuafieldsmillburn) Instagram Layne Norton, Ph.D. (@biolayne) Instagram Jordan Peterson (@jordan.b.peterson) Instagram Luke Storey (@lukestorey) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode we had Max Lugaviron, one of our favorite, favorite people in the health fitness and wellness space. But in this episode, he gets personal. We talk to him about all kinds of crap

that we know you're gonna love. If you're a fan of Max Lugavir, you're gonna wanna listen to this episode. We ask him all kinds of questions. Things that are personal, things that have nothing to do with health and wellness, things that do have to do with health and wellness. And then we talk about all the stuff

that's happening on social media right now. So, very fun, loose episode. Now, this podcast is brought to you by a sponsor, Sleep Me. This company makes devices that warm and cool your bed to improve the quality of your sleep. In fact, one of their products called the Uler has two separate sides.

So you and your partner can have different temperatures in the bed. And studies have shown that if you sleep at the right temperature, you dramatically improve the quality of your sleep. So you feel your partner can have different temperatures in the bed and studies have shown that if you sleep at the right temperature You dramatically improve the quality of your sleep. So you feel more rested. You have better memory and better hormones More balanced hormones. Anyway, go check this company out. Go to sleep.me forward slash pump 30 and you could take 25% off any of the sleep systems Which includes their doc pro with the code pump 30. Also we got a sale going on this month. We put together our best at home workout programs. So these are workout programs that require little to no equipment and we discounted them tremendously. So we took maps anywhere,

maps suspension, maps prime and the no BS six pack formula. We put them in a bundle. This would normally retail for over $330. But right now you can get them all for only $99.99. If you're interested, if you want to sign up or just learn more, go to mapsdiscember.com. All right, here comes a show. We're going to do a personal episode with you. Yeah, we don't want to talk any science at all. No, none. Yeah, we want to talk you, personal. Yeah, we want to know all about you. Well, let's start by talking about your current episode that you just did with Joe Rogan. I think in today's time, getting on Joe Rogan

is like, getting on Oprah, right? Like, I mean, that's a big deal. So yeah, did you feel it? Was it a big, I mean, because you crushed it too, you did a good job on that. Thank you so much. I was definitely anxious, like going into it because it would, I mean, just, did a good job on that. Thank you so much. I was definitely anxious going into it because it would, I mean, just,

his average is about three hours in length for an episode and I don't think I'd ever done, been on anybody's podcast for that length. Maybe you guys, but, we've done long ones with you. Did he offer weed? He didn't, I don't think explicitly offer that, but... What a mess.

He offered, yeah. He offered coffee and, oh, he did offer like a B12 shot when I came in, he has like a nurse. Wait, a shot shot? A shot shot. That's right. In the bus. No, because he had one of weed, but yeah, go ahead.

He has a nurse there that I guess was like during COVID was doing like the on-site testing, but now what she was, and she's lovely, she was doing, you can choose either like a B12 shot or an NAD shot or something like that. So they offered that to me. I want that. Yeah, it was cool.

I want that here. I didn't just take a shot of stuff. You didn't partake? I didn't partake because I just didn't know how it was. It was such a square. I think we tried to get you high the first time you came in here, didn't we? I was just, you know, I was like, you remember?

I wasn't nervous. I was just anxious about like, I didn't want to get on and then like have like diarrhea of the mouth, you know? Oh, yeah. Because there were, there were so many things that I had like thought about talking about and you want to be calm. Yeah, I want to be calm. I learned that a long time ago. I used to get hyped up for stuff. Yeah. And then I get hyped up anyway, and it would just make me anxious. So I'm like, I just, how do you see how refined this guy's got? That's how we sent him to do all the podcast. He's gotten really good. He's got really good. Sounds I'm like, I just, how do you see how refined this guy's got? That's how we sent him to do all the podcast. He's gotten really good.

Sounds great. No, he is. He's definitely polished. Got the quick guy. He doesn't know. Anyway, so, so, um, big deal. So what is a big deal going on there? I mean, in terms of like business followers,

did you get a way more attention? I mean, it was a big deal because A for one, like he's, you know, Rogan is somebody who I tremendously respect for what he's built for the kinds of things that he's, you know, stuck his neck out to say, especially over the past two years. So, you know, it was in many ways like meeting somebody who you, who you really look up to. So that's always kind of like an overracking anxiety inducing a good person. But not literally, he's pretty short in person. Oh my God. Yes. I'm taller, but he can kick my ass for sure. Like if it, if, I mean, he's like, he's a ball of muscle, the dude.

So I mean, there's jack. Yeah, he's super jacked. Down to earth, did you feel like you were kind of bustin and bust out, or did you feel like you really got to hang and get to know him, would it feel like? Yeah, I felt like there wasn't a lot of chitchat before or after the recording, but when the mics became hot,

he was immediately disarming and super charismatic and personable, and you could tell right away why he is what he is. He just makes you feel instantly at ease, like you're like an old friend. And that was surprising because I actually didn't know like the angle that he was gonna take with me. Like it was he gonna try to like assess my, you know,

see like where I'm coming from and size me up or anything like that. But he seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say and he was very warm and it just created this like perfect runway for me to talk about all the things that I had wanted to talk about. For me, I kind of approached it like I approached my first book. When I wrote genius foods, I was like, I would not have anticipated having the opportunity.

I didn't anticipate having the opportunity to write a book two or book three, so I didn't leave anything on the table. I put it all in the book. Like I considered the book like my legacy in a way. Like what if I only had the opportunity to write one book, what was it that I wanted to say? And so that's kind of like when you have an opportunity like that to go on that kind of platform,

at least for me I approached it similarly, you know? And so he just was so generous in that he left the runway wide open for me to kind of talk about the things. I think that I think it matters that he probably liked you. It says I remember when our friend Tom went on a show. He just he just wasn't good. Yeah, really? Did you watch that ever? I think I did.

Yeah, it was tough to watch. Yeah, it felt like like Tom's's people connected with Joe's people. And they was just like, listen, I'm a big guy. You're a big guy. Let's do something together. You can cross pollinate or something like that. And Joe's like, who the fuck are you? Like, okay, come on.

And then I think he just was hammering him with shit. From the get. Well, I think, like, I mean, if there's anything that Joe is, he's like a bloodhound for authenticity. And I don't know, a lot of these people in the personal growth space, and I'm not saying this about Tom, but I don't think that there's always the authenticity there,

like once you pre-pack the market. You don't think? Yeah, I mean, we made a career up here to try to expose that. Yeah, it's terrible. It is. And especially in our space. Well, I think it's not just our space.

You see it outside of fitness, too. It's kind of the model. You get to a place where you make a little bit of money, you have some success. And then the next pivot or move is to sell other people on how to do the same thing as you. When you know that 99% of the people never will do that, but the most money made online is teaching others how to make money

So you teach them how to do the same thing in these mastermind groups It's like I feel like it's the model that I already did Yeah, just interesting you're I mean obviously we like to you right out the gates because you're so I mean you are What you see here is how you are in real life. It's very you're very real and very Balance and honest and that's we came across in that interview. I did want to ask you about another interview you did because there was one show you went on also massive. However, extremely polarizing.

Not your interview, but the person who interviewed you. And I remember when you went on there, you texted, I don't know, I hope you don't mind me saying that. Yeah, I don't mind them. You texted me and you're like, I wonder, this is about to come out. I wonder what kind of response it's going to get because we talked nothing about polarizing issues.

I talked about health and nutrition, like you always do, but because it was, what, we're talking about Tucker Carlson. Yeah. And, you know, when you got the invite, what did you think? Because he's like, obviously people, he's, you know, on the right, you know, he, he, very polarizing with politics,

probably one of the most polarizing kind of mainstream people in that space. He wanted you want to talk about genius foods and talk about nutrition health, but you were like, oh crap, what's this gonna do? What was that like? Did you get attacked just for going on his show, even though you didn't talk about anything,

but well, the first thing, it was so, for me, it felt so out of left field to be invited on to that platform that I thought I was being trolled by like the vegan cartel or something. Being invited to some remote location where it was- How tough was that cartel? The off scooters. We're going to kill you but we're tired.

Wait for it. I'm not kidding. It was like a real concern that I was going to be invited somewhere and that was going to be the end of it. Oh, wow. You can really cross your mind. I swear. I swear I'm not bad.

That's funny. Yeah. But we had a conversation with the producer and- Didn't you say you wouldn't hung out in this place? Didn't you go to where the recording is? Is it on his property or where is it at? It's not on his property, but he has like, he records remotely like in a barn somewhere. Like, it's very nondescript, yeah.

You'd never know. And inside, it's like this, I think that's how he's operated for a long time. I think this is public. He used to do it in DC. And then he was attacked. Like, he was attacked on the street. And it just became a safer.

Why did you know that? Did you know that? No. Yeah, there was something that like, so crazy to me. Yeah, there was something that, that, you know, he's obviously very, very polarizing as a public figure.

And so, um, yeah, so I was lured out into like the middle of nowhere and, uh, and, Were you still like questioning it while you're going out there like, uh, Up until seeing him, yeah. No way. There was no fact over your head. But yeah, put this mask on, please.

You had your pocket in this room. Well, it's interesting because you get to a certain, like, because for me, building a following was never really like, I mean, it's been a good way to litmus test the impact that I'm having in the world. But it was never my intent. Like, my intent was to learn as much as I could about health and nutrition and to share that

with whoever would listen. But I never would have anticipated having any degree of a profile in this space. And so I've never really gone through the lengths of like, I'm kind of an open book. If there are things that people, notable people who are public figures have to do to make sure that they're alive or more private, I haven't done any of those things. So, you know, who knows? Like if they would have like found me somewhere and just like reached out, you know.

I mean, my email address is like fairly easy to like to figure out, you know. But, you're a level guy. It's not like the same. I don't think it's same as Tucker Carlson for sure. Well, I mean, I want to hear what happened after you went on because I saw some comments on Instagram and it was cracking me up. Yeah. Well, the vast majority of my following, especially

over the past two years, because I have, I have not been neutral on the issues that I thought were important to talk about over the past. Similar to you, right? So like, I mean, I'm, I think generally less interested in politics than you are. So it's, it's not like we all, what? I think generally less interested in politics than you are. So it's not like we all are. What? I think we all are less interested in salads. Yeah. I've never, I've always considered myself apolitical. But over the past, you know, a couple of years, like with the pandemic and the arbitrary

lockdown stuff and the masking and the just sort of like black and white thinking about everything and the mandates. I've put my foot out, right? And I've like kind of like broken silence on just a small handful of issues that I thought were really important that I couldn't keep to myself. And so I've done a good job, I think, of like pruning my following to the point where like... They kind of knew what to expect. Yeah, but some, when they saw that I was on Tucker Carlson's show,

were like, how could you go on a show? I'm on following, you know, like, I did get like some of those hate messages, but I was happy to receive them, you know, because like those people would have jumped ship at some point. They weren't there for me. Okay, so I love that attitude because I feel like, if you get, I don't know,

if you gain some kind of notoriety or authority, so let's say you do a good job, you communicate a message, you're selling a product, whatever. And then you gain a bunch of notoriety, but the way that you present yourself is not, kind of, I guess, not super real or authentic. You can almost put yourself into a prison a little bit. Like I know somebody like this where she did something, or she said something that all of a sudden could be perceived in one particular direction and had this huge blow up,

because the people that followed her kind of had no idea on some of the stuff that, you know, or some of the directions that she went or felt. So I feel like that's a smart strategy as you continue to grow, it's just kind of be who you are. What it is weird though, that it's interesting, you know what I you know I love about

health and fitness the most is that it used to not be political and polarizing. You know I could talk to anybody about it and I could help anybody. That's what I said to you I think when you told me about Tucker Carlson I'm like well you're talking to his audience about getting what you don't matter. I mean at that point like who you're going to talk to about like core values of things that will help at anybody. Well, the platform shouldn't matter. It's the message that matters. And so for me, I was like, at a certain point,

I just kind of had to realize and embrace that as like a sort of guiding philosophy. That my North Star really is to help people no matter what their political beliefs. Like, I don't care what your political beliefs are, you know, like, if you, you could be like, I don't know, I mean, I'd, if right now Kanye West wanted to sit down and have a conversation with me about like what he can do to use food to improve his mental health, I would be happy, more than happy to have that conversation with him, you know what I mean? He needs a, well speaking of poor, he needs of poor, what do you think about the liver king?

Oh, man. Huh? Well, were you surprised? I was not surprised. No, I was not surprised. I mean, I really came out of the left field. Yeah. Yeah.

If only there were signs. Yeah. If only there were signs, you know? I mean, okay. So we speculated, we were talking about this when we were a Doug me and Justin, we're talking about this, that I think that he knew it was always gonna end

eventually happen, like people were gonna figure that out. Once, you know, I mean sooner or later, the bigger he got, I think he didn't care. I think he knew that would happen. And I think his strategy was, if I get up into the millions of people, when the backlash comes and the fallout happens, I lose 30%, but that's still 50%. I'm still making...

You thought it all three-likes? 100%. Did you read all the emails? I read the emails. I read all of my emails. I got sucked in. I went into the rabbit hole and I read the whole correspondence back and forth when he called, he was at zero followers and he says, this is what I'm going to do. My goal is by 2022 to have a million followers on Instagram. Wow.

So he had, I don't know. In email went back and forth about his strategy and the intent was to get that big. And I really think that you have to know that eventually that you look crazy that it's gonna get found out, especially if you get that big. So I think he knew he would get found out. And then when he did, it wouldn't matter because I bet his business is doing just fine.

Did you see what he was taking? Yeah, I'm not, I mean, I don't know much about that world. So he's taking the amount of growth hormone he's taking is like, pro bodybuilders don't take that much growth hormone. Wow. Yeah. So I don't know what he's doing. He's thinking of doing it with all that stuff. He's definitely not natural. That's true. Definitely not not. No, I mean, I thought it was like, I mean, I've got like conflicting thoughts about it,

but I had a conversation with my friend, Joshua Milber, and of the minimalist podcast. Yesterday, who, you know, who kind of helped me gain some new perspective on it. First of all, first off, I wasn't like a fan of his, I wasn't like a follower of his, I wasn't like a follower of his, but I did initially think when I saw that, that this is like basically fraught,

because he's flat out lied on podcasts to help sell this lifestyle and his supplements, right? Which I thought was in a way false advertising, how was that in a false advertising? It's literally a charlatan. Yeah, but if people, you know, did it, like what type of harm did it do? Like did people adopt his principles

and then get healthier as a result? And so like, some of his stuff, some of his stuff was just a little too extreme. Yeah, like, you know, just eating raw. I think the only mistake he made was denying it so hard. And he just avoided it. Yeah. It would have been fine.

Yeah. Because I agree using that as a way to get attention to then present a healthy good message. I mean, let's be honest, that's what I did before mine, punk. Yeah. I mean, I had no, I didn't have any desire to be a bodybuilder or go that direction. It was purely to gain all this attention.

I took steroids to do it. It wasn't a bold face. Yeah, but of course I didn't lie about it. I mean, that's why I think I'm smarter than this guy is. I saw that, like, I just kind of not talk about it. If people ask me, I'm going to be honest, that was my approach. You're like a rarity. I feel like 99.9% of like fitness influencers who make a living showing off their bodies,

like they're all taking stuff. Like with the exception of maybe like Lane, right? Like everybody is like on something and nobody is being upfront about it. And so. I think he could have been non upfront and just not, I don't know if you saw the montage of clips that he did

on all the shows of him like, blame the denying. I am never like that's where he's like blatantly. You should have just like ignored it or downplayed it. Like a cheeky like joke about it. Yeah, but the fact that he was so staunch about never taking it, that's where he got fucked. But again, I don't think he's fucked. I think he's still going to, I think he's going to make out financially. And I think his message as far as, you know,

what is his nine ancestral tenants or whatever that he does? I mean, there's good advice. There's good advice. Yeah, it's good advice. Yeah, it's the convolutes everything in my opinion. And muddies, what we're trying to do, muddies, what like real professionals are trying to do. So I think that, you know, it's a slippery slope.

We can always justify like, things like that where we're trying to like push a good message through like a shitty way of getting there. But you lose all the integrity that was behind it. So now what do you have left? You know, you don't have a good example to, you hate all buff guys. Let's be honest.

No, don't like liars. That's a fuck liar. Yeah, no tolerance for you. You hate to get people liars. That's a fuck liar. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I'm gonna get millions of people paying attention to me. I'm gonna take copious amounts of steroids and growth hormone. You have to know that one day, it's gonna get uncovered. And so he had to have already thought about, okay, when the shit does hit the fan, what am I gonna do?

I'll just apologize. I'll just say I was insecure about my body and then people are gonna relate to him and understand. If you read the comments on apology, a lot of people are like, I like you more now. I think he's gonna make out business wise. I think he business wise, he will. I didn't always have shit in me though.

I mean, he's selling products. I mean, he wouldn't be a friend of ours because of that. No, you want whoever's selling you products just to be honest. You know, that's a pretty big lie. If you didn't say anything, it'd be okay. And I don't give a shit to be honest with you if he takes steroids and mod and what I don't give a shit about. Just lie. But I don't like him anyway, to begin with,

even before this all came out, because he's like a character, you know? Like a character, and it kind of, for our space, it definitely is something people can point to and be like, oh yeah, this is what, this is strength training, this is what, you know, the fitness space is, it's all this, well, there's something to that. You mentioned a character, like you start to see

like what does really well in social media, you see what gets elevated the most, and you really like, it's like, I would say like comparable to WWE, where like, everybody that's in influence is trying to like create this sort of caricature of themselves and present them. And to me, like it's interesting to watch, like how well that does still

and compare it's into somebody that's authentic and just giving them a good picture. Oh, I think most of them are that way. I mean, that's been our experience. I don't know about yours, but when we meet people for the first time that are, you know, super famous on Instagram or YouTube, they're always different in person. They're always...

Who is it? Who is it that couldn't turn it off? Elliot Holtz. They're always. Who was it? Who was it that couldn't turn it off? Elliott Holtz. There you go. He was mad. We met in person. I was excited to meet him actually because I like his content.

He's got this like, you know, you gotta, you know, work hard and be the bet. Like he talks like this, right? And then we were done. When we were done in the mic drop, he kept talking like this. Yeah, I'm like, we're done. He's like, bro, the mic's on right now. This way, when he did like this. Yeah, I'm like, we're done. They brought the mic to the mic. I'm talking right now.

This is waiting. What are you doing, man? Okay, dude. But a lot of them were like that. I mean, a Connor Murphy was this super shy. I'm gonna just throw people in the bus right now, all right? So whatever. He's a true like acid guy.

I like him as the kid, whatever. But like, super cool. Nervous, Bradley Martin same thing. Like all these kids that are like, they get super famous online. and then you meet them in person They're all insecure and nervous and they don't they can't make eye contact and their personality doesn't align with this character that they built up on social Yeah, it's really interesting to see it's more rare and I think that when we that's why we tend to cling to people

Like yourself when we meet that because we kind tend to cling to people like yourself when we meet that, because we kind of expect everyone to be like that now. And so it's like, oh, dude, this guy's real. He's the same on the podcast as he is off the podcast. I think that's more rare for us. Is that been your experience or has it been different for you? Yeah, no, I mean, the real ones are rare for sure. And I feel the same way about you guys.

Like, there are people that all invite onto my podcast who, you know, you could tell, as soon as they enter the studio, that they're like, they put on, it's like they flip a switch, that they're suddenly like at the helm of some like big media opportunity and they start performing and it's just, it's very cheesy. Yeah, it's not. It's not. But I feel like those people, they don't have the longevity, you know, you just gotta see them.

It's slower to go your approach or our approach, but it's more sustainable. Yeah. And obviously you feel a hell of a better. Plus it's not hell. Could you imagine being the liver king in public? You know what I mean? You're trying to hang out with your family and kids

and then people are hanging in your kitchen. Yeah, but I think half of what drives me, those people are narcissistic as fuck. He likes that. He's probably, he's always like that. That's fair. Yeah, those people, they want that attention. Yeah, but ultimately it's like what you said,

you end up putting yourself in prison. Can you put a shirt on today? I'm a prison. Whether it's like your personality or your ideology, like your dogma, and I feel like a lot of the carnivores have done that, like the carnivore types. Yes. You know, like they are so extreme and so dogmatic,

and then once they're, I mean, you've kind of seen this publicly with some of them that like as soon as their diet stops working for them, then they have to pivot and it becomes this whole thing. This revolt? Yeah, this revolt. That's like when Paul Saladino started adding honey to his diet.

Oh, funny. It's not funny. What friend of ours was it that said that they were the one that got him to do that? Who was it? It was one of our friends. Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, somebody said that.

The Jason, who is it? I don't remember who it was. One of our friends was saying that they were the one that really like do things to him. He's like on a paleo diet. I'm like, what the? Yeah. This isn't a carnivore diet anymore, you know? Yeah. Was that vegan girl?

Was this like vegan influencer girl? Oh, yeah, they do that. I mean, you see that all the time. Well, she got someone took a picture of her eating like eating a fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna rest. Oh my God. It's gonna do this big, all the polys.

About it. So, I'm gonna go to the next one. I'm gonna go to the next one. I'm gonna her being like beating a bitch. Yeah, he got the whole way. At a restaurant. Oh my God. It should have been this big, all the polys. About it. Yeah, so that's why we're always like, yeah, we always, you know, Adam's always like, I like Diet Coke. We, they got for bits, we've seen so many.

Right, your bets, you know? Yeah. Well, since we're talking about being authentic, so I, you know, part of the thing I wanted to do with you today is be more personal. And so I want to ask you, I'll put you on the spot. What would you say is your single biggest insecurity? Oh, man. My single biggest insecurity. What a question. It's right. Think about it. We got time. Yeah. He gets insecure because he doesn't have any insecurities.

I talked to him about this before. No. Now we all do, right? I've got many, yeah. I mean, I think like, you know, occasionally I have like imposter syndrome, which I think is common when you're, when you're, I think doing anything, honestly. I think like, I don't know anybody who, especially once you get to a certain level where you start getting a little bit of praise, but along with that praise, you get criticism too.

And for me, it's like, I have never misrepresented myself. Like, from day one, I got into this because of my mom, I'm not a medical doctor, I didn't go through the academic channels, and I try to do one, I got into this because of my mom. I'm not a medical doctor. I didn't go through the academic channels and I try to do the best I can at learning and then teaching what it is that I'm learning. And when I have a shift in terms of my belief

or whatever that I have about, whether it's food or lifestyle, I try to be as transparent and open as possible. But, you know, I feel like the criticism sometimes from people that don't agree with me for their own ideology, ideological reasons, whether it's like the vegans or dieticians that are trained a certain way and see me as being a threat

because I'm not a dietician, but I'm kind of like encroaching on their territory. I try to be, I try not to let those, that criticism get to me, but it does sometimes. And it just, it just perpetuates that like imposter syndrome feeling that I, that I sometimes get. Yeah, but don't you think it keeps you humble? Yeah, I think, you think it keeps you humble? Yeah, I think, you know what I mean? Cause I feel like if you have to have a little bit of that,

otherwise you could get real arrogant, you know? Cause you'll question, okay, well, I gotta make sure I say it this way. Well, I guess if you position yours, cause I don't know if I feel like I go through that, but I don't feel like I ever position myself as an authority in anything. So that's probably,

because you're presenting a lot of information and science, you have to kind of dance that, I am kind of an authority because people are reaching out to you for specifically. I think maybe you and our show have that more than I do. Do you think to yourself, because I noticed this about you when you present information, you're very careful to not present it in an overly positive or overly negative way, you'll say, okay, this study shows, other studies may show, this suggests, you speak very accurate away.

Do you think to yourself, like, okay, what I'm saying now is gonna be recorded and it needs to stand the test of time. So I gotta make sure I position myself in a way where I'm not being to, you know, one direction or another. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I always try to couch what it is I'm saying with the acknowledgement that science evolves and that what we believe to be true today might be overturned tomorrow or next week or next month. And so, yeah, I think as a as a as a communicator part of like my the skill set that

I've honed over over the past few years is to is to be very deliberate with my words. I think words are super important, particularly, particularly when talking about these kinds of things. And, you know, my passion is brain health and helping people have hurt age-related chronic disease because I saw such profound illness with my mom. And so, I always, it's not necessarily conscious for me, but I think that the way that I communicate, I'm always at least subconsciously mindful of the fact that there could be somebody like my mom

listening at the other end. Somebody who is actually scared or actually sick and that I would never want to You know, I would never want to convey false hope like a sense of false hope Because that wouldn't be right to do with somebody who is in my mom's case, right? And so that's got to be one of the toughest things to deal with in when you're dealing with chronic, I had a family member who was really sick once, and I remember trying to read things online.

There's so many, there was so much information out there that you, you would definitely be the false hope. Like this is, this is the cure, do this, take that. Yeah. And it's really shitty because when you're in that position, like all you wanna do is is believe in the in the hope Yeah, like when I was on Rogan I remember there was a specific

Section where I was talking about the ketogenic diet and You know, it's funny because I talk about if you so much as talk about the potential benefits of a ketogenic diet in any context on social media You're labeled as a keto zealot right right? By like the fitness influencers and the like. And I have talked at Nazim about the ketogenic diet. I've written, you know, like a significant portion of my first book, Genius Foods, was about the ketogenic diet because the ketogenic diet is incredibly relevant to neurological conditions, right? Like, it is a, it's a diet that unlike any other diet dramatically changes

neurochemistry. And so it has to be talked about in the context of like dementia. And it's an, and so anyway, I was talking about it on Rogan, and I, I remember being like making a point to say this is not a cure, but if I were to have developed dementia, if I were to ever develop dementia, which is, by the way, for my genes, very possible, right? Like I'm, I'm genetically at risk, and I have a family, you know, member that had the condition that I would, which is, by the way, for my genes, very possible, right? Like, I'm genetically at risk. And I have a family, you know, member that had the condition that I would, in myself, I would, for myself, try a ketogenic diet because there is some evidence that it might provide at least short-term improvement for patients.

But again, very, very careful not to portray it as a cure because it's not, right? But despite that nuance that I go through great lengths to add, I still get hate from people who are like, oh, Max is just a kiddo, you know, Zell it or whatever. Because people get these thin slices of your message on social media out of context oftentimes and they have this picture of you, right? So what kind of kid were you growing up?

Growing up, yeah. I think I was like a pretty curious kid. I like. Popular. I was popular when I was in elementary school, and then I went through a phase in middle school and high school where I felt I think really like mal-adjusted, mal-adapted.

Did you move to like a different area or someone that or did you stay in the same area? Because that's not normal for like a kid to like fall out of popularity. Yeah, six-graded, yeah. What did you have done? I kind of did, well, that could do it actually. That could do it. That's what the hell we thought. Yeah.

Sorry, I don't know. You record. I was just, I was really insecure, I think. It's funny that you asked that because I recently, I, after my mom passed away, I mean, my brothers, we moved to LA and we brought all, you know, all of the like the family relics and heirlooms like with us.

And I have like boxes of old VHS tapes for my family that my family has had for like 40 years, right? That's cool. And I recently went on eBay and I bought a VCR and like the whatever the tech to digitize like some of those tapes. I've been going through like old family tapes. And there was like this joy that I feel like I saw in myself

as a child that wasn't really there when I see, when I saw a clips of myself in high school. Interesting. Yeah. And I don't know what happens to all of us, but... What was it? What were you insecure about that age? Yeah, I don't know.

It's probably the insecurity thing I was digging for anyway. Maybe. I think I just really... I was like a shy introverted. I couldn't like... You know, I wasn't really... I didn't really have many... I couldn't like, you know, I wasn't really, I didn't like, I didn't really have any, many, I couldn't describe what my passions were.

And, um, Jesus, who can it, fuck it, sixth grade? Yeah. I don't know what my passions were, what I was going to be or any of that stuff at that point. You feel like she was back then? I did actually.

Okay. I just didn't think I liked anything back then. Like, I couldn't, you know, I just like, I didn't have the, the tools and the, um, I wasn't very like self-aware at the time. Or I was, I think I was like, I didn't have the tools and the, I wasn't very like self-aware at the time. Or I was, I think I was like really insecure and self-conscious. I think I was just gonna say, you're a thinker,

so I'm assuming as a kid, you probably thought a lot. Yeah. So you probably were so self-conscious because you were thinking about, am I, am I hidden? Yeah. Okay. Did you comb your hair back then? Narotic. Because you don't know, so did you comb it back then?

I think back then, yeah, I used to comb it back and I had braces, so I kind of looked like butt head. Oh, okay. No, I'm not kidding you. Yeah, I did. I did. That's great. I literally looked like him.

Were you like, now, were you in class? Were you a good student? Were you like, wow. I wasn't a good student. I wasn't really, I didn't feel like I was good at anything in medical, in medical, in middle and high school. I was, and this is kind of like around the time

where I discovered fitness, and I really became obsessed with like the notion of bodybuilding and supplementation and all that. And I was never a bodybuilder. I wasn't even like good at that, but I, I wasn't but I didn't really get good grades. Was school boring?

It was just, I was a procrastinator. I just couldn't put my mind, I couldn't like orient my mind around like schoolwork and studying and things like that. I just had a lot of difficulty doing that. But there was always this weird paradox because despite that my, and my always very mediocre grades,

my teachers always really liked me. So I don't know if it's because I was like, I had a bit of charisma somehow back then. Or I think that I was always just very curious. Like I asked good questions, even though I didn't excel in terms of my school work, I always asked good questions. Like my teachers could tell that there was always like a potential.

That's actually the one thing that I would hear again and again throughout childhood, despite my report cards always being really bad, my parents always getting really mad at me for that, was that Max has, Max has really high potential. He just needs to like reach it, you know. Would you have been diagnosed with ADD? Had you been like a young kid now, do you think? I was never formally diagnosed, but I did struggle. My middle brother was diagnosed with my middle brother had it. I think maybe that took the focus off of me in that regard. I was always in the gifted classes classes, like the honors classes,

because they saw this potential in me. But my grades were always just terrible. But I will say that like, I always struggled to read books like in school. I don't think there was a single book that was assigned to me out of the dozens upon dozens of books that you have to read as a student that I ever like even got halfway through any of them.

Yeah, I mean, I just I found a way to like, you know, cheat my way, not cheat, but like cliff notes and yeah, like to to finagle my way out of like ever having to have read them, because I really struggled. And even today, like I don't I don't do well with like long form. It's weird because I can write I've written three books, but I'm just like not I can't like, It's weird because I can write I've written three books, but I'm just like not, I can't like, yeah. What are you audio? I really, I struggle with audiobooks too. It's really weird.

I struggle with them, you know, because here's the difference between audiobooks and podcasts for me that I think makes the difference. On, in audiobooks, the signal to noise ratio is like super high. So if my, if my attention wanes even for like a second, I've like lost the plot and I have to like back up, you know what I'm saying? It's like really, it's really hard for me with audiobooks. Podcasts are a lot, I get a lot from podcasts, conversations because it's like the signal to noise ratio is low enough where my brain can kind of like tune out for 30 seconds and then I can come back to the conversation and I really haven't

missed that much. Have you actually tried to speed the audio books up before? Which sounds like that would be the opposite of what you do. Yeah. So I'm the exact same way. And the very first time we met Tom Billio, he said that he listens to books at like two and a half three speed.

I'm like, that's ridiculous. And I explained to him like, oh, there's no way. I'm just like you, I get distracted really easily. He goes, no, you'll see you'll pay more attention because it's at a faster rate. And sure as shit, I pick up more on an audio book at two and a half speed than I do at regular speed. Interesting.

Because all it takes is some other noise or some like that, or I feel like I can multitask because it is kind of just. It just forces you to focus. It does. It forces me to focus because the words are coming so fast. And I find that I retain more at a faster speed than I do to slow speed. Wow. That was like one of the coolest hacks that someone's ever given me before. I'll try it. Generally because you have to work up by the way. Like you can't go like, oh, Adam said 2.5 speed. You jump from regular to

2.5. You have to go like 1.5 and then 2. And then 2.5 work your way up there and see if you notice the same thing that I did. Interesting. The boot in my mind. I think I've tried, it's just the signal to noise ratio with audio boxes so high that like it gives me anxiety, you know. Actually, I get like a little bit of that as well. But yeah, I've struggled like with like with that, which is interesting because I mean,

that's one of the things about my books is that I try to make the takeaways like really, it's like a book where I love writing about like facts, you know, and things like that. I don't like weigh readers down with my books like with anecdote and stories, and I just wanna like get to the point, you know? That's how I wish more books were like that, you know, like Jordan Peterson, I think, for example, I think he's a great speaker, couldn't get through like, really?

Any of his, yeah, 12 rules was heavy, 12 rules, yeah, like, it's just like, get to the point, tell what do I need to know about lobsters? You know, like, yeah, it could have been summed up in two pages, right? Yeah. So you said you're a bit introvert, and I can relate to that a lot. How did you work through that? Because you're presenting yourself all the time on these big stages, big platforms, you're very articulate in your delivery, like, when did you start getting good at that?

And how did you do that? That's a good question. I think at a certain point, at a certain point, and I don't think it was until I was in my early 20s that I, I realized that I had this like appreciation for performance. And I don't, I don't know where it came from, but when looking back at my, at these like childhood tapes, I could see that child max had like a predisposition for it. Like, whenever the camera was on, I think I as a child appreciated it. And I kind of lost that plot throughout middle school and high school, but towards the end of college,

I once I realized that like my academic past wasn't gonna bode well for career in medicine, I pivoted to a double major in film and psychology in college. And so I really gravitated to storytelling. I became really interested in storytelling because in part because I realized that I was creative as well that I was like a good storyteller,

not necessarily that I was like an on-camera talent, but that I was really viscerally affected and understood like movies, you know, and like storytelling devices in movies. And music is always something that like really got under my skin in a way that like, was I think like unusual, Like music has always resonated, and film has always resonated for me in a way

that wasn't really as casual. My relationship with media was never as casual as it was for my peers. So I ended up double majoring in film and psychology, and it landed me a job. And this first job out of college was where I really realized that I was comfortable in front of the camera and that I also enjoyed it. I ended up becoming a journalist for a TV network that Al Gore started in the US. And so immediately after graduating college,

I was put on TV. And that was like, I learned on the job there. How to like, what kind of journalism? I didn't know that about you. Yeah. What were you covering with the, it was sort of like MTV meets CNN. I remember I mean like CNN back before I before it became work. Yeah. But that's how I would always have described it. You know, it was like it was a so what kind of projects like like like would they put you on who would you. Yeah, I would talk. It was like a it was like a news information network for young people. So whatever like younger people were talking about like at the time, whether it was like technology or politics or fashion or religion or whatever the thought.

You know, it was just like a smorgasbord of like ideas. We actually used to call it a tapest bar of ideas. That was like what the network aspired to be. Interesting. And so I would pop in and out on the network 24, I was a day. Like as one of the main hosts and journalists of the network talking about like whatever, ultimately like whatever I wanted, it was a dream job.

I didn't get paid a lot, it didn't make me famous or anything. Do you have a bunch of old clips stored away somewhere? I do, yeah, yeah. Oh, you have to share that with the Android one. I want to share those, that would be great to share those on the show. Biggie face.

Yeah. It was so fun. But yeah, that's where I kind of learned that I enjoyed, like, you know, and I think excelled at like, you know, communication. Did you, did you start, when you started working out, was it because you got bullied or because you felt insecure, like a lot of people or were you just, did you just get into it? It wasn't, I never was bullied thankfully, ever, which was, I think, a great thing. Very grateful for that.

I got into it. I was really into like superheroes when I was in high school. And I wasn't an athlete, but I wanted to. Yeah, who's your favorite superhero? I was like a big kid. Can't just breeze through this. Yeah, okay.

Justin's now awake. Yeah, it is. Sorry, I was like the sleep, now I'm here. Dude, well, I was a big, Wolverine, I loved Wolverine, yeah, he was probably my favorite. Big X-Men fan, but I also really like some of the, I wasn't like, I was a much bigger Marvel fan. I collected all the Marvel Masterpieces cards.

I had like all the comics, all the X-Men cards and everything, but like, I did love Superman and Batman. And Robin, I really like Robin. What? I really like Robin. Yeah Batman. And Robin, I really like Robin. What? I really like Robin. Yeah, nobody likes Robin. I really like Robin. Why?

For some reason, I don't know. At least you didn't say Aquaman. No, I really like Robin. I don't know why. I think it was just like he was like the underdog. He was like the little like a protégé that. It's like, I like that's funny. Who do you think out of the three of us,

you would most likely have been friends with the high school? Come on. Yeah, I feel like. Yeah been friends with in high school? Come on. Yeah, I feel like. Yeah, yeah. We have a lot in common. As you're talking and talking about your experience in school, it's like identical.

Yeah. It's really weird. That's hard for me not to jump in. It was the same. It was the same. Because I love, look, you and I both have a passion for learning. But in school, it was like, I want to pull my hair out. It was so boring and just,

well, same thing procrastinating. I think just neurodivergent. I don't know if you've ever looked into neurodivergence, but that's probably part of it, where obviously you like learning, but putting you in a traditional setting is very challenging for you. But you learn it, like, I learned the best I learned

is if I read something and then talk about it, then I'll learn the hell out of it. Yes. Talk about it. Yeah, there's that saying the best way to learn is to teach. Yeah. And that I completely like underscore that with my own personal experience. Like I learn and I teach. And one of the ways that I learn is I read something and then I write about it.

Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a great way to learn. Yeah. In discussion and debate is my favorite. Which gets my family members get write about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a great way to learn. In discussion and debate is my favorite, which gets my family members get annoyed by it, but I love it, that kind of stuff. Have you seen some of the insecurities that you had as a kid play into favor for you

as you've gotten older like that have helped you or that made you really good at something because it was such a deeply rooted insecurity? Can you connect any of that? Yeah, interesting. Well, I think that part of the whole not doing great in school thing, you always kind of have this insecurity or this inner monologue of like am I smart, you know like am I a smart person like am I competent and And I feel like I you know most of the time I feel pretty smart

but then sometimes I feel like an idiot and and I feel like that sort of like balance of like always trying to like get better at what it is that I do and be more competent and and better able to to synthesize aggregate understands synthesize ideas like that's something that that definitely yeah does propel me. I think I think you share that in common with Sal and I for sure, right? So we didn't finish school and I think that's something when you don't finish school and then you get in a position where you're teaching and helping others, I think that's always kind of the back of your mind,

like at my smart enough. I think it will work that for a long time. Like on my podcast, I'll tell you, if I ask a question or something that where I fumble and I just don't have a clear, because sometimes that happens to me, whether it's like my mind goes somewhere else over the course of recording,

which gets rarer and rarer as I get better and better at the art and science of podcasting, which like you guys know, like you get better over time. But if there's a, if there's a moment where I stumble and ask a question that's not very clear, I feel like an idiot. Like I actually feel like I'm like a moron in that moment. Yeah, like it, like it affects me and it takes a lot of work for me not to want to go back and edit that and retape the question and ask it more clearly.

Do you have a standout moment? Which one do you recall? No, I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I think early on in the recording of the podcast, I did do a little bit of editing. And now I don't do any because for me, it's like, I wanna be fucking as authentic as humanly possible. You know?

And- I just pretend like I'm coughing. You just think you're coughing. That is your move. Hey, hey, hold on, that actually happened. Yeah, we were, we were when that happened. That was Luke's story down in LA. He was interviewing us when we first started.

Adam lost his train of thought. So, yeah. He's going on and he lost his train of thought. So he starts coffee, coffee. And so I just jumped in, right? And I just took over whatever. And then afterwards, I was like, hey, I really wasn't talking. I didn't forget what I was going to say.

I just so lucky. It's really, I wish I could take that. I'll just freeze. I'll just be quiet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they just let me sit in it. I appreciate that you guys You're funny with the first time you I'll never forget the time that we got Justin Hi to other studio and he thought we were making fun of him and he got So yeah, doing show we're like we're recording

He's very defensive. It was a great episode and we're going back and forth I'm like we were a salad. I were having a good time laughing and Justin thought we were like laughing He's like pushes like a way rose to my couch Here stomps out the studio like mid recording. We're like oh shit like pacing up and down the main street I was just like oh this was like the previous studio Yeah, it was early days when would Doug used to let us get high before Yeah, so hey, so were you how were you with the girls in high school in middle school?

Because now you're like Mr. eligible, super eligible bachelor a lot of stuff. And we'll get to that. But when you were in high school, junior high, were you popular with the girls? Or because you were shy, were you not super popular? I had a lot of female friends, but I didn't get like the sort of attention that I wanted.

I was like a frustrated, you know, like, I, girls, I think were like, I was in the, I was in the friend group, but I was like in the friend zone for like all the girls that I, you know, that I, that I fancied. How old were you when you lost your virginity? 18. Oh, okay. Yeah. Freshman year of, uh, I was younger than I.

Oh, it is younger than me. It was either freshman or the quick answer. No, it. Yeah. Freshman year of, how's the younger than that? It is, young. It was either freshman year. I appreciate the quick answer. No, it was freshman year of college. I can't remember if it was like first or second semester, but yeah. But no, like girls were like nice. I wasn't like, you know, like an outcast or anything like that.

Like girl, I had like a group of friends, you know, many of whom were, or girls, but I was just like frustrated, you know. Like I don't think girls were like, I didn't feel like girls were attracted to me in high school until maybe the very end. Maybe do your hair. What I did.

No, I can't do it. It was wrong with his hair. He's handsome as fuck, so he can do that. He can still come in, but I always tease him. He looks like he literally just rolled out of bed and just rock it. Okay, so now, it's called an uncomfortable hair syndrome. That's actually a real thing. I mean, I'm tease him. They look like he literally just rolled out of bed and just rock it. Okay, so now,

an uncommable hair syndrome. That's actually a real, I mean, I'm just jealous. That is a real thing. It's a real thing. Did you guys know that? It's made up to me. No, it's not. What did you say?

There's a real syndrome called uncommable hair syndrome. And it's like, I swear to God, Doug could put it up on the screen. It's real. And he's always just flying out of people's. Why, give me some moves. You go there, God here. No, they have crazy hair and you can't do shit with it.

And there's something to do with the keratin or the hair where that's it. Like you can do whatever you want. You wet it. I don't belong with it. It's fake news. No, no, Doug soon pull it up because it's a real thing. Is it a thing, Doug?

It is a thing. Pull up the picture, Doug, because the TV's not showing it. I don't think Max has this though. No, no, no, no, no, no, he has fantastic hair. Change, put the screen up because you guys got this. I didn't even know this was a thing pull up the picture because the TV is not showing it. I don't think Max has this though No, yes fantastic Change put the screen up I didn't even know this was the thing. This is a real thing. There's a syndrome for everything now. No, no, okay Look at that So rad Me with all those little kids face that's not

Look at that. Oh is that true? I don't know Just look at all the pictures are you that true? I don't know. Just some sort of pictures are blind. You know what's weird? They're full of static electricity. You know what's weird? Can you do the perfect person to ask this? The things that make you cool and attractive

as an adult man, make you dorky, nerdy, not attractive when you're in high school. Yeah, that's weird. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, like, what's up with, like, like some of the stuff that you, that maybe girls don't like or find attractive about you before, now probably is way different, like your communication skills. And well, yeah, it is weird. All the,

all the like, the best looking kids in high school that seemingly had it all put together where the athletes, a mess now, a mess. Yeah. And and, and, and, beer bellies, like, beer bellies like, because I think you, I think you take for granted that. We peaked. Yeah. You peaked your senior year in high school, you know? You peaked.

I think in life you take for granted that, which is easily obtained. So the kids that, that seemingly had it all in high school, they're the ones that were the first to let it go, you know? Whereas I feel like I've always had to work for, whether it's like to appear as though I am somewhat stylish or to have a nice body that I feel confident. I've had to work for it.

I've had to dedicate myself to learning about the value of protein and lifting weights and hanging out with people like you who inspire me to that one day will have even an eighth of the, you know, the muscularity that you guys have, you know, it's like, so I'm just absorbing all this. You can all say, tell me more, tell me more. But that's it, it's like, you have to work for it.

And then I think that gives you a certain level of grit and life that then has a spillover effect into other areas, whether it's like your work life or your relationship life, you just you, you, you covet that, which is, you know, attain. It's interesting you say that because I said on the show the other day

that was kind of controversial about this idea that having all the money, having all the opportunity, having that we assume that that's a place of privilege. I mean, and it really does, because when I look back at all the challenge, and by the way, I went through my phase of feeling sorry for myself that the challenges and struggles that we had growing up,

but I look back now, and I actually, when I look at my friends in high school and stuff like that, and I look at all the things they had, all the opportunity, all the privilege they had versus what I had now, I actually think that that was an advantage for me to have experienced that at such a young age because it built so much character in me early on that has served me later on in life.

And that this idea of having all the money, having all the opportunity is this great place of privilege, I think is such a backwards way to look at it. And is it necessarily true that? Because I used to think that, like, oh man, if my parents had as much money as my friend or they could have paid for the college, I would have went to some four-year degree and I would have had this and I would have done that

and then when I look back, I'm like, So weird, I just literally just quote, I just sent this to my son this morning. It's a, it's Marcus Arrelius, Stoic philosopher and it says, love the hand that fate deals you and play it as your own. I think that's the difference, right? Because you can be in whatever situation, it's all about what you do with it. And I think oftentimes when people have a lot of things that are easy, they, they, they don't, they're not able to use those opportunities or those of whatever you want to call them potential advantage.

If anything, it might make them lazy or it might make them... Well, yeah, it's like a muscle. If you get everything and you don't have to work it out, you don't have to develop it, you don't have that strength. Didn't life, like real life, it's you as an adult, and you're so weak in that area because you didn't have to face any adversity where I felt like I built all this resiliency as a kid and not even realizing that I am

that when life hit me as an adult, those problems didn't seem that big to me because of the stuff that I had gone through. And I think now that that was a massive advantage that I, to the point that the biggest argument and struggle that I have with my wife is how much adversity do we want to manufacture for my son because he's going to grow up in a total different lifestyle than what I grew up in and I value that. And so how do I raise him from a place of privilege and then also find a way to manufacture this adversity. So he gets the benefits of building that resiliency through childhood and adulthood.

I think about it all the time. Just deal with shit everyone's well. He's just throwing the way randomly. He's just throwing the way randomly. Oh, it's no food this week in that way. Anyway. What are you talking about kids? I mean, do you think that you have any insecurities around fatherhood or relationships or marriage or anything

that you just got a niece, right? Nees. Yeah. So that's kind of a taste of what a little bit right? It is like to have kids. Do you want it? Do you desire it? Why do I mean, I know you get plenty of opportunity.

So what keeps you from going that way? I do want it, but I've struggled for a long time with like relationship stuff. And I, you know, more specific. What do you mean by that? Oh man, well, I'm terrible in the bedroom or you don't pick up your clothes. You forget to brush your teeth.

No, I, I mean, I've had lots and lots of great relationships with women, but I feel, I've been in therapy for the past year and a half. Actually, I recently stopped going because I feel like she told me that I've really done great and that it's time to take a break, which is something that's really nice to hear from a therapist. She's like, she's not talking to you anymore.

She's like, yeah, she quip me. She's like, she's doing great. I don't fly at that before. And we're done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not everything. You're something. Skeggy, a month from now.

Bro, you're gonna make a hell of an insecure one. Well, no, she said that I accomplished. I achieved, you know, a lot of the goals that I sought her out to accomplish. One of that was to try to figure out my relationship ship. One of the things that I've realized is that we all have trauma, which is not something that I would have realized pre-therapy. To me, trauma has always been big big T-trauma, you're sexually assaulted or something at some point in your life. I have the most wonderful childhood,

like my parents were great in many ways. They were just amazing parents, but we're all traumatized by something. It's like, you know, a baby who doesn't get picked up at the right time when they're crying out for their mom or their dad, like that traumatizes them in a way that creates a butterfly effect. Pain is an inevitable aspect of life. And so for me, you guys know that I've always been incredibly close with my mom. My mom was the most important person in my life and she motivated me to do what it is that I'm doing, in hopes of helping her when she was ill. But emotionally like growing up, she probably leaned on me a little bit too much because

her marriage, she was an amazing mom. My dad was an amazing dad, but the marriage was never really that good. And so my mom basically, like what it's called, it's like, it's called enmeshment. And there's a kind of scary term for it, which has nothing to do with physicality or anything, but it's called covert incest, essentially, when a parent makes you their surrogate partner. So like emotionally, my mom would like talk to me

as if I was like her best friend, unloading all the shit that my dad was putting her through when I was a child. Wow. And that definitely will make you grow up real fast. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, I'm the oldest child in the family. I've like, I'm close with my mom. So I do have this like, there's this thing where I'm like kind of like the a maternal figure to my brothers. And it's like been kind of great with like the the niece now, but it but it's affected my relationships negatively. And it's really one relationship in particular.

I was like on and off with this one girl for a very long time. I loved it, but I couldn't like commit to. And the whole thing with this like in measurement, it creates like avoidant attachment. And you essentially have this like bond with your mother. What's avoidant attachment? I don't think it seems like avoidant attachment. Well, there's like, I'm not definitely not an expert in this, but there's a voidant attachment? That seems like an avoidant attachment.

Well, there's like, I'm not definitely not an expert in this, but there's like different kinds of attachment. You have like anxious attachment, avoidant attachment. And it just kind of creates, it's like, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, yeah, it's like you, in relationship, you kind of are like the more avoidant person. Like you're the one who like,

doesn't want to commit, doesn't want to commit, aloof, yeah, exactly, exactly. And then the like you're the one who like, doesn't want to commit, doesn't want to commit, aloof, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then the anxious one is the one who like, is more neurotic and is the one that's like, do you love me? Do you like me? Yeah, all that stuff.

So tell me what are some like common things that you fuck up in the relationship then like you just, because you don't care, the girls say you don't care enough for you act like, yeah, pretty much like the minute that I historically, and this is starting to change thankfully with awareness about the you know of the of the of the the root cause but it's

like historically whenever I would start to get the sense that a girl liked me that's when I would retract I would like pull back and I'd be like oh shit you know this person likes me and then I would like be like unresponsive via text for four days. Oh wow. You know, and and and it just it creates this like this this boundary, you know. You know, okay, so does this so because someone might listen and say, well, you haven't met the right person, but maybe this, do you think this is preventing you from meeting the right person? In other words, I wonder if this would make you more attracted to a girl who plays the same game. That's right. I was going to ask you. You know what I mean? Where she does the same thing, pulls back so then you reach forward, she pulled and you pull back and you know what it does is it is it typically will make me attracted to girls who are not the best for me and it makes girls who are not the best for me attracted to me. And

so it's led to no shortage of like dating opportunities. So what does that look like? Are those girls that like don't kind of don't give a shit and they're not really, or do you interact with ones that are like totally chasing after you? They're typically, historically for me, the girls that have undelt with trauma in their past. Usually like the daddy issues and things like that.

You know, which firework relationship. Yeah, yeah. And so the good reality show to follow you around. Yeah, no, it's crazy. It's like this crazy thing how we're all sort of like puzzle pieces, you know, and like we find the ones that are our counterpart through the, through the ether, you know. Craziest things that's happened to you in a relationship. Oh, man.

Correct. You definitely attracted some crazies. I know. Well, yeah, I found out that one of the more recent girls that I dated, but like had a more significant relationship with, was a, was a madam? Oh, and you didn't know? I didn't know, I didn't know.

That's awesome. How did that unfold? I had no idea. Well, we were like, you went and hang on together when I found out. I knew that, I knew intuitively that she wasn't the right person for me. What were the sides?

I don't know. That she was not the right person. Yeah. And I can't imagine Matt, I can wait. Wait, text messages. Yeah, it was just like a feeling. Yeah. I mean, there were some obvious red flags, but you know, for me,

that maybe there were red flags that were in the moment kind of exciting. But yeah, but that's a good example of like, you don't become a madam unless you have like trauma, some might describe as daddy issues. I don't actually know what hers, we hadn't dated for that long, but that made her very attracted to me because I was very

avoiding it with her. Right? And so we had a very significant or at least relative to my other relationships period where we were dating. And it was actually really fun for me because I got to do like, I got to put in 0% effort and it only made her more attracted to me. And that's the kind of cycle in my own life that I want to put in 0% effort and it only made her more attracted to me. And that's the kind of cycle in my own life that I want to break. I'm aware of it and I've tried, I'm working really hard to break it.

But the biggest and most painful aspect of it for me was that for many, many years I was on and off with a girl who in many ways we weren't right for one another. So there's the confounding variable there, and we drug each other through youth, the hormones and the drinking and all the things that you do when you're a young idiot. I, despite how it may seem now, I'm granted I'm still an idiot, but it was definitely went through that phase where my 20s, I was going out a lot and whatever, and I had this girl in my life who, and she was doing the same. But we loved each other and I just couldn't, you know, we couldn't, she had a lot of trauma

that was on dealt with. I obviously didn't know it at the time, but like I had trauma that was on dealt with. And now this person's like, you know, probably for the better, but like is out of my life. And it's like a, it's like a thing that, it's always like going to be there as like a reminder, my life. And it's like a thing that it's always like gonna be there as like a reminder, you know, or at least like a question. Not necessarily a reminder, but like a question. Like what if you could have like, were you meeting the, some of these girls are dating?

Are you using like dating apps? Tiktok. Tiktok, no. No, geez. Do the TikTok algorithm. That's where Doug gets his dates. Stop for him. Big TikTok guy. They're good dancers. I hate, the TikTok algorithm. That's where Doug gets his dates. Stop for him. Big TikTok guy.

They're good dancers. I hate, I fucking hate you. Take talk, I was really good. Precisely because it has me so figured out at this point. Oh, when you go through your feed. Yeah. It's just the, the algorithms are so smart and it's the worst. It's the worst thing.

It's a reflection of this, the worst thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like the shadow. It's like it's amazing You want to see your shadow go to the for you page I think that's actually one of the things I find most fascinating about social media is is how aware I am of the addictive properties And yet it still can get you is that like I know that I mean I think I was talking about the book irresistible You know long before anybody else was in the podcast, and I read it, I gin after that, read unplugged that. So I was so staunch about not getting sucked into social media, but yet it still gets me.

It still will, I'll still get caught up in it and find myself, oh my God, I literally just wasted an hour and a half of my day doing really nothing. Yeah, it's terrible. I think TikTok is the best thing. You're not really meeting girls through social media. It occasionally is useful, but I, no, it's sort of like a mix of meeting people

in, I prefer meeting people in person, but I'll use like, there's a dating app that I'll occasionally waste time on. Instagram is like, you know, I mean, if you gotta use whatever's available, these days, like I'm not like a ludite, you know, like I, like if it present, if like, if the tools are there, I'll use them.

But yeah, I also don't like, it's not like a big, you know, I don't like spend, I don't's not like a big, you know, I don't like spend, I don't focus too much on it, you know, I'm like, I've got other, who's it? Like Aristotle said that the intellectual is somebody who's found something more interesting than sex like, like dating is important to me, but I tend to be pretty wrapped up in my own world of like, you know, doing my world of like doing my thing, like the podcast, which I drive so much joy from writing my books, like all the other things in my life.

I feel like I have a pretty rich life, and so I don't feel like I'm wanting for anything, but it would be nice to like, yeah, I don't know. Let me hear about your niece, because last time I saw you, I think she had either just been born or was about to be born, think. But last time I saw you, I think she had either just been born or was about to be born, I think, last time I saw you.

Yeah, probably just about to be born. You were super hyped about it. So what's that, because when I, you know, just knowing you, I think you're probably, you're gonna make a great dad one day, a great uncle or whatever. You were so excited about it.

So what's that, like, you close with your brothers, so you see. Yeah, super close. You see them all the time, or? Yeah, my family is super, super close. I credit that to my mom who made sure that my brothers were best friends and we are. Yeah, my youngest brother. And partially because he's my youngest brother, and I'm the oldest, and I'm also, obviously,

health is kind of relevant to where they are with the baby. I've taken a fairly active role. I mean, they're still the parents, but've taken a fairly active role. I mean, they're still the parents, but like her name is Kayla Moon, and she's just like the cutest little baby. She's named directly after my mom. And yeah, she's like adorable.

She's like this, her nickname is Mrs. Baby, we just call her, we don't even call her by her name. It's called Mrs. Baby. That's great. Wow, and it's two uncles, right? You and your other brother. Me and my other brother. Is this the only, is this the first grandchild

on the grandchild? Yeah, first baby. Oh my gosh, first baby. Little girl, three dad, two uncles, grandpa, spoiled. Yeah, totally spoiled. And the only girl, like the only girl on the, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. She's so cute learning all about like the differences

in the different formula types and like all this stuff. It's crazy. She's so cute learning all about like the differences in the different formula types and like all this stuff It's crazy. That's awesome. How do you we were talking about social media earlier and I whenever we bring that up I just think about how In like how much more I don't know if it's more important. I think it's always been important But how much discipline plays a role and I guess leading a good life, you know, not the not It's not so much can I get things, but rather can I prevent, can I keep things away, or can I stay focused here or not,

in doles and all these different potential avenues or whatever. Do you find, do you structure your life around those types of things? I know you work out, I know you try to eat right. Do you do that with other things as well where you try to maintain a certain level of discipline? Discipline. I think the other thing in my life that I've been

pretty disciplined about has been like music, music practice, which is something that I love to do and I love the process and the journey. It's not something that I aspire to do professionally, but playing a guitar and singing and occasionally even songwriting, which I've done in the past, but not so much anymore. But yeah, I really enjoy that playing music, which is also incidentally really good for the brain.

But it's one of the things that lights up the whole brain, right? More than almost anything else? Yeah, because it draws on so many different cognitive domains. It's like hand-eye coordination, proprioception, the emotional cortex is engaged when you're in that sort of flow state. So yeah, I really like it.

I dedicate it, I think, a fair amount of time to, like outside of my fitness, it's probably the next in line thing that I dedicate. Do you do it on a schedule? Were you playing in practice? I used to. I was taking weekly singing lessons for a while for the first time, which I've been doing it for a long time, or like a relatively long time.

But then during the pandemic decided to take remote lessons, which by the way, I think it could be, it should be something that more people consider doing. I think people have this sort of binary view of what it means to be musical, but singing is like a physiologic like phenomena, like anybody can sing. Not everybody's going to have like a tone that they necessarily like. I don't even hope. The same way that you can increase your balance, you know, I think like people can learn to, can learn to, not necessarily become a great singer, but like, everybody come to me at a church, bro.

I can't even go to church. Really? Yeah, that's bad, dude. Everybody can play basketball, but not everybody's gonna be good at it, basically. It's the same thing, get these small澳agents. Yeah, yeah, a sports announcement. Oh, now we're out of the get it.

No, just because every one's the lie. I say that they were doing a podcast. There was notes on Tom Brady that he was going to bring up, but I brought it up on purpose. It's like I knew that I was I was talking about. It's a good time. How much has your life changed since the success from the book? So

especially, you know, with money, like you, as you start to come into money, how much has your life changed and what's your relationship with money? Like, Man, well, I'm interested in, I think I'm interested in money, but I'm not particularly skilled at understanding the more esoteric financial concepts. But I like having money because it's like energy that I can then use to help support things that I either like or care about, whether it's products.

I know you guys do a lot of investing into different CPG, better for you CPG products. So I've been really enjoying doing that. But yeah, I'm very grateful that I get to do what it is and focus on the topic that I most care about for a living. It's been, you know. I think you were in Magic Spoon. Are you in more than just one company?

How many companies are you invested in right now? Yeah, Magic Spoon was my first. So Matt, we missed that boat. Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, no, I don't know. There hasn't been like a- Well, they're sold it or anything. No, they haven't sold it, but the valuation came out,

like I talked about on the show, like six, seven months ago. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good bottle. Yeah. What else? I got an arm drum going blank. Oh, element.

Oh, yeah, YouTube, I love that stuff. Also, I recently found out that I have like occasional migraines and I find that, wait, how do you mean you just found out? Well, I used to think that like people get headaches. Like I didn't think that like a headache was necessarily a migraine, but I, you know, maybe like once every other month or so, I would get like this like very specific headache

That would begin upon waking and wouldn't go away until I went to bed until like I you know went to sleep And let me guess the sodium Sodium helps to do. There's very interesting research on sodium 100% Yeah, actually there's a lot of really interesting. I've been diving into the migraine research and it's super interesting. People who have like higher sodium diets tend to experience fewer migraines. My wife gets like de-abilitating, like almost like cluster headache type migraines

or you wanna pull your hair out. So I like dive, you know, I've been diving deep into reading about that now for the past maybe five years. And I was fascinated sodium. There's also a CNS component where for some reason, you get this crazy vasodilation in the brain causing these throbbing headaches. So things that can be like almost like vasoconstructors

or maybe in that category like caffeine can help. Really interesting. It's a weird, I guess medical condition because they really don't know how to treat. Did you know with cluster headaches, if people take stylist's siphon once a month, they won't get them anymore? Maybe I saw that from you or something.

We're right, yeah. There was a really good randomized control trial looking at the impact of industrial seed oils on migraines. I don't wanna open that wormhole unless you guys wanna go there because I know it's controversial, but it's actually one of the better studies to reference in this conversation about like, okay, RC to oils good for us or are they not so good for us?

Did you see this RCT? I did not. I'll send it to you. So basically what they did was they took three groups of people with chronic migraine, right? And first group was on the, stayed on the control diet. Second group, they gave about a gram and a half of Omega 3's a day, which is well known Omega 3's can resolve the inflammatory cascade.

So broadly anti-inflammatory. And then the third group, they gave Omega-3s the same dose, but they also told them to dramatically cut their intake of grain and seed oils, industrial grain and seed oils. And what they found was that the group that both took the Omega-3 supplement and cut their ingestion of grain and seed oil saw double the magnitude of the effect that just the Omega-3 supplement and cut their ingestion of grain and seed oil saw double the magnitude of the effect that just the omega-3 group saw.

Wow. Yeah, and they controlled for fat intake. So this wasn't just that they were consuming fewer calories, right, because they were told to avoid these grain and seed oils. They supplemented it with like, they replaced the fats. Yeah. And so it's not just the anti-inflammatory effect of these omega-3 fats. They saw and you know, this is relevant because migraines are a neuroinflammatory

event, right? And so I've been arguing this whole time that we don't know the effect of chronic, you know, consumption of these oils. What that effect is having on our on our cognitive health? And you know, brain health is something that like when we say brain health in quotes, like this is something that takes decades to manifest as like a condition, right? But my grains are more acute. And so I thought this study was was actually, I think the study is super solid advice is not advice. Evidence is the the the reason why like when people finally show symptoms of cognitive decline. Is it because, because I've read this as well, that it probably started decades earlier, or a decade earlier, right?

But then the symptoms didn't become kind of evident until like 10, 15, 20 years later, is because of the brain's ability to compensate. So you're getting, you're having damage or whatever, but your brain's ability to compensate makes it so that you don't really have these really over symptoms until it just gets overwhelmed.

Is that what's probably happening? Yeah, that's part of it that you have what's called the cognitive reserve. That's why it's thought that playing, learning to play musical instrument, learning another language, staying engaged socially, that these help to strengthen and support the cognitive reserve so that you have this greater degree of resilience. But then also, with conditions like Alzheimer's disease, for example, there is this sort of inflammatory effect that's apparent. And it's thought that that inflammation, probably any number of stimuli, then causes this over aggregation of amyloid plaque and the tau proteins that

that clump and misfold and that that sort of begins to create this like self perpetuating thing where the amyloid then becomes toxic. It's not that the amyloid was initially toxic, but that it builds and that it starts to gum up the works and yeah, that's right. We talked about this was a symptom rather than the root cause. Yeah, but there's probably a bunch of different things. You want to build your cognitive reserve. You want to strengthen your neuroplasticity.

All these other things, I think, all can play a role. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I wonder how migraines tie to all that. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's like, they're related. I mean, there is there a correlation or is there any connection between migraines and cognitive, chronic cognitive decline? Not that I'm aware of.

It might be out there, but I don't know. Is that the most recent cool thing study that you come across that you're into? Yeah, that, I thought, was pretty cool. Definitely because it seemed like a pretty well controlled, a well-designed study. You know? They found that the people who were in that group of not just having taken the Omega-3s, but the concurrent reduction in seed oil intake, which is like, basically like linoleic acid. They cut their ingestion of linoleic acid. They got by on way fewer drugs. You know, they had to take less NSAIDs.

Like fewer, like they were popping less ibuprofen. And I just thought that was super interesting because the argument that you sometimes get is that seed oils are fine. They're benign. It's just we tend to under consume omega-3s, but this study examined that. Right. It said no, in comp, yeah, you both make a big difference. Yeah, not because the brain, like fats affect the brain, and it's not just any fats that affect the brain,

it's like these polyunsaturated fats that are given sort of like free-rain access to the brain, right? Yeah. And so when we consume these easily, first of all, it's not even necessarily that the oils are easily oxidized. We're consuming about three to four times more linoleic acid, which is an omega-6 fat,

than we did at the turn of the last century, right? But then you also have to counter in, like you have to add in context, right? We're consuming them from these like, you know, these after they're derived, we derive them from these industrial processes that damage the oils. We're consuming them in the context of a low antioxidant diet, right? Like antioxidants are usually found in whole foods where these fats are found to protect those fats, but we tend to under consume those today.

And then that's just like one part of the larger expo zone, which I think is a cool way to think about this, like the just the sum total of exposures that we have on a daily basis that are also like affecting the brain. So that's interesting. That's interesting. I never considered that that consuming, I guess, I don't know,

pro-inflammatory or pro-oxidant compounds with antioxidants that may be present naturally balances it out. But because we take these oils out and remove all those other potential antioxidants, now we're just getting this kind of pro-inflammatory pro-oxidant Now we're just getting this kind of pro-inflammatory, pro-oxidant. Yeah, qualities. Wherever you find polyunsaturated fats, and polyunsaturated fats in Whole Foods, totally fine. And I also don't think that, like I think, you know, it should be said that I don't think that seed oils are the smoking gun for all of our problems. Like I think a lot of people on social media will suggest that.

I'm not saying that, but I do think that we need to be a little bit more critical of this, particularly because in nature, wherever you see polyunsaturated fats, you see a proportional amount of vitamin E, which is like they're in nature to protect these fats from oxidation. Which is just, by the way, one of the antioxidants found in the whole food matrix, right? When we extract these fats from the whole food matrix, we ingest them after they've been exposed to oxygen, to heat, to all these oxidation-catalizing processes, and the milieu in which these fats are being consumed now, more so than ever before, we tend to under-consume antioxidants such as

vitamin E, which is like literally one of its roles in the body is to prevent fats from oxidizing, it's to prevent lipid peroxidation. Ninety percent of Americans don't consume adequate amounts of vitamin E. And the more poofas, polyensaturated fats you consume, the higher your need for vitamin E gets, and we tend to under-consume that among other. I have an analogy, this kind of interesting. the higher your need for vitamin E gets, and we tend to under consume that among other. I have an analogy that's kind of interesting. You typically don't, for example, sugar and nature

is almost always in combination with fiber, right? Like if you eat fruit, very different effect than if you drink fruit juice. Like if I drink a glass of apple juice, you would see very different effects on my body, than if I ate the three apples that it took to make that glass of apple juice. So it's really interesting, you know, we evolved with things being in combination. We separated, you tend to see challenges.

Yeah, I mean, I used to be, you know, if you would have asked me like five years ago, like what I think is the most pressing problem. I would have probably said something like we're consuming like too many carbohydrates or something like that. But now I think my view has shifted and I really think that it's the preponderance of ultra-processed foods, like, primarily in the standard American diet. And it's like these other compounds that were now told to just ingest blindly like the grain and seed oils, which are, again, these ultra-processed food-like substances

that are extracted from the whole food matrix. And I just don't think that's worked for us in the past. Did we look up on the show the other day of, what they were originally made for, for engines or something like lubricants for engines? Oh, you mean the oils, the oils? Yeah, they were, yeah.

Yeah, like, you just for lubricants for engines, right? Yeah, they were, yeah. Yeah, like you just for like lubricants for like engines, right? Yeah, if not, if not just flat out waste products, like which was the case with grape seed oil, which was like a, which is now essentially a byproduct of the, of the wine making. Yeah, I think, I think you can all, you can connect all of most of it to heavily ultra-process foods because one, they make you over consume, that's a big deal, right? You over consume, even a healthy diet and you start to see a lot of problems. But then two, I mean, in essence, they're Franken foods because we take things

and put them in to make it super palatable or give a long shelf life. And there's really no consideration for how those compounds are typically present in nature. And why is that important? Because we evolved with food. So there's this co-evolution that kind of goes on. And so we take these foods, we take compounds,

plug them in, don't consider any of the ways that they normally present themselves, plus you want to over consume these foods. And so you just have this kind of recipe for disaster. And I've seen this where they've connected. I mean, if you want to make a chart that matches the obesity and chronic health epidemic, it's the consumption of heavily processed foods.

It's like, the more of those we consume, the more of those problems, we start to see. I think those are the two main reasons, and I'm sure there's probably more, but those are the ones that are up the top of my head. Yeah. Do you think you're going to be somebody who remains as a public figure for a long time, or do you have an exit plan when you get to a certain place business was? Oh man, good question.

I love what I do, and I don't feel like, you know, what is that saying? It's like, find something that you love to do and you won't feel like you work or something. Like it's, I didn't do what you love and you love what you do in your life. Yeah, something like that. Like I actually love what I do and I love creating content

and I get really inspired when I read studies, for example, that my brain study, that there's this truism, unfortunately, that it takes about 17 years for what's discovered in science to make its way into day-to-day clinical practice. So granted, a study like that, it's a into day-to-day clinical practice, right? So granted, you know, a study like that, it's a, it's a, it's one single study, it's a small study, it's probably not something that like, is it going to change overnight clinical practice?

But for me, I get really excited when I read something like that that has the potential I think to the critical reader to, to, to change somebody's life, you know, for the better potentially. And so that's what gets me out of bed in the morning. So, so long as I can keep doing that, like, and then remain open-minded enough to keep reading and assimilating new information and then creating content via, you know, mediums that are around now, but maybe devised in the future. I feel like you know I all definitely continue Doing what is I'm doing because I just I love it. So the introvert and you doesn't want to just kind of like disappear

Yeah, yeah, fade away. Yeah, I mean I think that it would be great It would be great if I could figure something out where it didn't need my, like the podcast obviously only goes if I'm there. Right. You know, my social media only goes if I'm there behind it. I'm not good at delegating, like, you know, for example, podcast production or my social media to others because as a creative, I'm a bit of a perfectionist with that regard. So it would be great to be able to come up with something or team up with partner with somebody that can kind of like add an arm to my business that doesn't need like my full-time presence. I don't yet know that looks like you guys

have like courses and all these like cool products and stuff like that. So that would be like maybe we join forces like the Avengers. Yeah, yeah. Live out your Robin Hood. Yeah, live out. Yeah. I don't have said that yeah. Live out your Robin Hood. Yeah, live out. Yeah. Yeah. Adam said that if I left, he'd replace you with me. Yeah. I do.

I actually think you picked him as the, yeah, we play that game every once in a while. Like if Justin dies, like, we'll be in the middle of the game. Some people want like, they play that game too many times. Yeah. Justin dies.

I actually, I would love to be like the honorary like fifth mind pump guy. You already are. Yeah, do you? Am I? I think you've been on the show more than anybody else. Have I? It would be much better if you were a chick, though,

because that would solve the problem that we have wherever he asks for that, you know. You need a girl's opinion. Yeah. Sounds feminine enough. Yeah. You're way more fanned brazing. Yeah.

Anyway. Always good time with you, man. Yeah, likewise. I'll be good. I'm excited for tonight. Tomorrow's gonna be good time Dude, what a weekend. I'm pumped. It's gonna be a lot of fun man. Thanks for coming of course. Thanks for having me Thank you for listening to mine pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and Maximize your overall performance

Check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mine pump media dot com Check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPSANABOLIC, MAPSTERFORMENT and MAPSISTEDIC, 9 months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having sour, animal, and justine as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show,

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