Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1977: How to Become a Badass With Jen Cohen

Episode Date: December 29, 2022

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Jen Cohen on how to win at the game of life. Authenticity is rare. (1:54) Using the chip on her shoulder as a superpower. (9:15) The challenges of being bold. (13:58) Don’t discount yourself without trying. (20:22) Humility is very underrated. (23:12) Play the hand you are given and make it the BEST possible. (33:00) Turning her failure into a lifelong win. (38:07) The importance of being resourceful. (41:43) Fitness is a microcosm of life. (44:52) Don’t be disingenuous. (50:43) One for all, all for one. (58:20) Money doesn’t equal success. (1:04:45) Life is NOT balanced. (1:09:28) The devil is in the details when you are raising kids. (1:11:37) How kids mirror what you don’t like about yourself. (1:20:34) Sometimes you need to give a little space. (1:24:00) A mental trick in patience. (1:25:30) The art of biting your tongue. (1:27:05) You don’t know until you don’t know. (1:32:30) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit NutriSense for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP at checkout** December Promotion: At-Home Holiday Bundle (MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Suspension, MAPS PRIME, and The No BS 6-Pack Formula all for the low price of $99.99!) Bigger, Better, Bolder: Live the Life You Want, Not the Life You Get Jen Cohen: The Secret to Getting Anything You Want in Life Suicide rate at MIT higher than national average Mind Pump #1970: Max Lugavere Gets Personal Mind Pump #1835: Why Resistance Training Is The Best Form Of Exercise For Fat Loss And Overall Health The Resistance Training Revolution – Book by Sal Di Stefano Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Jen Cohen (@therealjencohen) Instagram Habits & Hustle Podcast Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere) Instagram Ben Pakulski (@bpakfitness) Instagram Gunnar Peterson (@gunnarfitness) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode, we talked to one of the most amazing women we know. Jane Cohen, in fact, she talks about how to become a badass. You're gonna want to listen to this woman There's almost nothing she can't do and I'm not exaggerating by the way. She just wrote a book called bigger better and bolder

You got to check it out. You can also check out her podcast. I've been on it a couple times. She does a great job It's called habits and hustle. You can also find her on Instagram at the real Jen Cohen, Cohen spelled C-O-H-E-N. This episode is brought to you by NutriSense. This is a company of dietitians that helps you work with your diet, but they also use continual glucose monitors. They use the glucose monitors to watch your blood sugar and help you individualize your diet.

This is about as it individualizes it gets, meaning you get a diet and you work with a diet that works with your blood sugar and help you individualize your diet. This is about as it individualizes it gets. Meaning you get a diet and you work with a diet that works with your blood sugar to make you feel better, make fat loss much easier. Go check this company out. This is a successful way to lose body fat. Go to neutresense.io. So that's N-U-T-R-I-S-E-N-S-E.io,

forward slash mind pump, then use code mind pump and get 30 days off. $30 off. Also, there's three days left for at home holiday bundle. This bundle includes four workout programs, okay? Would normally retail for $338, but right now you can get all of them in the at home holiday workout bundle,

for only $99 and 99 cents. If you're interested or you wanna learn more, but right now you can get all of them in the at home holiday workout bundle for only $99.99 in 99 cents. If you're interested or you want to learn more, just go to mapsdicember.com. All right, here comes the show. Off air, we were talking shit about somebody who we don't have to say their name, but I am curious because we were in it. We, oh, okay. No, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was talking on the last episode. It sounds like bad. No, no, no, no. Well, it was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was shocked, I'm on the last episode. It sounds like a bad, no, it's not. No, well, well, that's so bad.

Well, it's interesting. So we have a live audience in here. And so they've had this opportunity to have this, listen to this conversation. And you know, ironically, it wasn't, we didn't plan it to go this direction, but we've been talking about, you know, these people that we meet in this space.

We've all between you and Max and us had the opportunity to meet a lot, these people that we meet in this space. We've all between you and Max and us had the opportunity to meet a lot of these people that are super famous on YouTube or Instagram or podcasts. Social media. Yeah, social media, right? And I think the thing that draws us why we would consider you a friend,

Mac a friend is the authentic. And it's just amazing how rare it is that when you meet somebody, they're fucking real. Yeah, normal. It's almost more common when you meet one of these, you know, social media celebrities that they're nothing like they portray. Is that been your experience? Not only has that been my experience, I find it to be so disturbing. And I would say, we were talking, even before you walked into the room, you know, I think you see it more and more. I think as you get maybe more notoriety and more popular on social media platforms,

you see the claws come out more and you also can see behind the curtain a lot more. But there's a few things that I find very interesting. I find it super interesting how there's different buckets. But at the end of the day, what really bothers me are people who are out there telling authenticity, being real, helping people, giving back gratitude. These are all hashtags.

It's about giving back. It's about paying it forward. It's about helping. And it's the same people who are the most, like, they're the most, badly competitive, not a good way competitive. They're, they'll use you. They're all social climbers, users, competitive,

and it's an internet marketing game. It's like snake oil salesmen. Like, that's how I feel. That's how I see it happening. I don't find there to be a lot of authenticity. I don't think any of these people are necessarily experts. I mean, what's great about you guys and why I like you guys truthfully is because you are an expert in something, right? You have a background in fitness and health and that is what your platform is. You're not out there touting how to be an entrepreneur and all these other things,

but not even doing it. You're practicing what you preach. You have become great entrepreneurs. You have become these people that are doing certain things and then you talk about it. But these people who are, I find, it's like a money grab. How do I grab money off of this person and suck every dollar out of this person with this funnel, right? With all about sales funnels. How can I like convert that person into a continually paying monthly user of something? It's all a game of like, what can I get out of you?

And then who can I align myself that can help me and if you cannot help me and if I cannot squeeze every contact and piece of information out of you then you're like discarded and not necessary. I got a story for you. I'm not gonna say the person's name because I don't want to I don't want to you know call them out or whatever but there's a person in our space, right, right, right, right. No, no, I'm not. I'm not kidding. Yeah, he has a podcast and it was really, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was a little bit, it was a little bit,

it was a little bit of an arc at the time, but we were coming up and we wanted to have him on the show, talk about being on his show. So Justin and I set up a meeting with him. Oh, I remember this. And he showed up and he was like so big timed us. Like, yeah, well, you know, if you guys get to my level and one day you'll do this and like blah, blah, blah, blah. And Justin and I are sitting there like, what are you like?

What's going on here? Like we're trying to, you know, make, make friends, make contacts. You're just networking, like, just, like, just, post-repeating. Yeah, total, yeah, total, total, whatever. Anyway, I don't know, like three years later This person has beyond their show and that we've surpassed them and the total change in the personality Oh, man, Sal, you're you're this and oh you guys are great and if you need help let me do this I'll do that for you. Let me introduce you these people and I'm like while he's talking I'm literally texting these guys literally while he's talking to me. I'm like this guy Oh my god, I'm never gonna I can't I hate that see to me. This is like, this guy's so poor. Oh my gosh. I'm never gonna, I hate that.

See, to me, this is like, this is like the crux of the, this is exactly, I think this is what happens more often than not. Yeah. I mean, what happens, I also think, to your point, sometimes you meet these people and they're so nice to your face and like, oh yeah, you know, it's like these, it's like these blatant like this, this like, polyannic words that everyone keeps on saying because they're like the, I'm here to support you. And let me know how I can support you.

And this is like, it's like this molasses, they vomit on you. Right. And it's so empty and shallow. And so like, for example, for this whole book, you know, I'm on this whole book launching, you know, situation right now. And it's, it's so, there's so much anxiety around it and so much pressure because you want to be able to go out there and talk about your book. And so you go back to the people that you help promote, you collaborate with the same

person or this person who you've had on. And they give you some, I don't like just a bunch of like, basically a bunch of lies. Yeah, exactly. And it's crickets on their end. But when they need something, they're like all over you like, you know, like white on rice. And then when you like text them, DM them, it's like they're gone. There's, it's such a, the friendships are so vapid and empty.

So. It's also bad business because it's such bad business. If you want to be in the irony of this, if you do this for the business reason, it's not going to really, it's not as authentic, obviously, but the irony is you don't know who's on their way up. And so by, you know, big timing people or whatever, later on that person, you know, maybe it may help you out or may have something that you need

or whatever, but now you've kind of treated them like shit. For that bridge. You've burned that bridge or kind of treated them like shit. Because people have a long memory, I do anyway, right? Like, I may not call you out right away if I don't know you. Like, I've texted you of DMG, I've called you and I've gotten zero responses.

Okay, fine. But then it's in my head. And more often than not, in my opinion, and I've always zero responses. Okay, fine. But then it's in my head. And more often than not, in my opinion, and I've always learned is the people who actually end up helping you the most in life or the people you least expect. So never, never just disregard and discard people that you think are, quote, unquote, below you, right? Like, I remember, we talked with this at my mouth

on your show for the first time, or maybe the second time, I don't remember. You didn't want to have me on your show You're like who is this girl? I told you that girl. Yes, I know you did too. I mean, that's why I that's why I like you. We fell in love with you within two minutes.

Thank you. I fell in love with you guys too. But like it's like people have such a myopic and such a limited like Compartee ability to see beyond what's right in front of them. And you and I were talking about this about this book or in general, how it's so easy to compartmentalize somebody or pigeonhole someone and thinking that's their only value in life. Well, let me ask you this, Jen, because you're, um, I mean, people who know you know this, like the more you watch you, the more you see what you do, the more remarkable. Oh, come on.

I know, I'm going to go on. No, no, no, no. No, I swear to God, half the time, you should see, we're in here, and we'll go by your Instagram and see, like you interviewed another and like, how does she do it? Like she meets with the most incredible people.

She says she's going to do something, she literally does it. She should have been an ex-game athlete. Right? That was a surprise. That was like, and That was a surprise. I was like, well, everyone says that, but it's not.

I'm so mad, we could have posted that clip because you, I can't really just shit that you didn't move your hands next time. Yeah, come on, I can have the editors here. I mean, true, true. I'll tell you this, I think it's really important that, that's what I'm saying, you never should call anyone out because you don't know what's behind closed doors.

Do you find that you get underestimated? All of my, of course, my whole life I've been underestimated. What do you think that is? You know what? I don't know. Depends on like what, what bucket I fall into, right? Depending on who I'm talking to and when I'm talking to them, right? So like, I can be, if I, like, and I'm not saying that I am, but if somebody finds me cute,

then she can't be smart, right? If I'm smart, then I can't be smart, right? If I'm smart, then I can't be athletic, right? If I'm too athletic and too fit, then I can't be competent, like in other areas, and I'm only good in fitness. It's like, no matter what, if I dominate or I'm really good in one thing, then it lessens the ability in people's minds that I can be good at something else. Like, where is it said, written that I can't, you know, not me only, I'm talking about anybody, that you can't be good in more than one thing if you put your mind to it. So, to me, it's like, I think you can be good at anything you do if you actually have the

discipline and desire to get good at it and practice it. Well, so this is kind of a hallmark of, in my opinion, of your personality, is that you, and I, I asked you that question because I see that. I see people underestimating you to their folly. But you made that. You see me, Sal. Well, it's true, but you've, you've turned that into a super power

because I feel like it's like they don't, they underestimate you, which opens the door for you to go in and do what you're gonna do. And I see you using that because you don't come out and try and be like, I do this, I do that. And it's like, please underestimate me. So you've turned it into a superpower. That's on purpose, yeah.

Well, yeah, it is on purpose. Because it happens, by the way, don't you, I feel like sometimes because it's happened so much in my life that I do feel like I constantly have a chip on my shoulder and I have something to prove to myself, like the most. I don't really give a shit about what someone else feels as much until they actually do that, until they underestimate me.

And in my head, like that long memory, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna show that person, you know? And I'm gonna show the best way I can by just doing it really well and surpassing them or like being like, hmm, it's happened recently. There's a guy that everybody here knows. He's very well known. Very well known. He's actually a good person, but he's got a lot of a kutramonts that he was able to kind of elevate

and become like really strong in the space of motivation, let's say, right? And, you know, I think he's got good intentions, but sometimes good intentions, was that saying? Like sometimes it's like the path to. The hell the road was paved with good intentions. Right, right, right. And so like, you know, we talked about doing this kind of business

together, that kind of business. And it never constantly flails, not because of me, but because of that person. And so, what happened is, I'm like, all right, well, that's not gonna work because I'm not gonna chase somebody to that point where I'm constantly gonna rely on that person, I I gonna rely on myself. So over time, I went and found somebody else that now I'm building this situation with as potential business. And now they come back to like, well, what happened? I thought we were

gonna do this. And the person I'm doing with is much more successful than that other person and are like kind of, they're kind of like shocked that's happening. So I guess that's a long and it's a very convoluted story to explain something that's pretty simple, which is that it happens all the time. And it's up to you, it's up to me to kind of get, I'm going to work harder. I'm going to get to that thing without that, and they'll see it themselves. I don't have to blatantly put it in their face because you've got to be so good that they'll notice and recognize you

even when you don't have to blast it in their face. And that's happened time and time again. Yeah, so we talked off error about this book because this is book number four, five. Four. But in a different way. Right, the other books were But in a different way. Right, the other books were all fitness.

All fitness. Would you say this is like an extension of the TED Talk? It is an extension of the TED Talk. For sure. And that's another example. I do that TED Talk, even you laughed at me about that TED. The secret to getting anything you want. You laughed, you laughed, you laughed.

Did you? Did you? Yeah, you're like, This is whole bull thing. Remember? I should have used the word tenacious or something. Yeah, I know, but I would have been received better. No, you actually used the right word because it's a bumbeat. You took years into the bull.

It's not the long memory. Long memory, I don't have long memory. But no, no, no. Why I'm bringing that up is that I didn't think in a million years even then that TED Talk was going to become as popular as it did and it went viral and there's like millions, I think it's that 5 million now on just YouTube. And like tons of engagement on this whole idea of being bold and tons, I think I've had like thousands, thousands of people who've contacted me about that like DM DMs, companies, colleges, students, whatever I was saying resonated to a point where it actually turned into this book because the message I think is exactly that, that like be bold.

Being bold is more important than being smart, putting yourself out there, blah, blah, blah, blah. more important than being smart, you know, putting yourself out there. Boba, Boba, Boba. Yeah. Do you find that this resonates more with women than with men? Actually, it's 50-50 because the idea behind it is, it's the idea behind the whole idea of being bold is that don't allow yourself out or don't allow the fear of failure to stop you from trying. And that could be, that's universal

and that doesn't, that has no gender to it, right? Like a lot of, and this is by the way, it's not just professionally, it's not just like the job. It's about, it's not just the job, it's about personal life. Like a lot of guys or not just girls end up dating and getting married to somebody that like, you know, that like, are okay. They're not crazy about just because it was, they're acquiescing to what's available,

or like, that person's good enough. And because they're not putting themselves out there, or they're not actually like chasing what they really truly want authentically. And the idea of behind my entire platform and message is like, how have a rich life and it's not rich with finance It's not like oh, how do I get a plane and how do I make more money? It's about how do you actually like live in a way that like is actually fulfilling and satiating in a real way That's with like experiences and relationships and job like look at you guys are like literally and relationships and job. Like, look at you guys are like literally, an exact like a perfect example of somebody

or people that are doing that like day in day out. You guys are best friends. So you get to see your best friend every day doing exactly what you love, talking about exactly what you love and a place that you love. Like how many people are able to like say that they are, they created that life for themselves in a purpose,

in a way that's been like on purpose. You guys were on purpose doing that, you know, like you, and you don't compromise. You don't, like everything is done in like, the way you wanna do it. Yeah, we feel very blessed for it, but you know, the challenge with being bold or as you said, taking those chances, right, taking those risks is the fear of unsubjected

ridicule. Yeah, failure or ridicule, because if I put my real self out there, like if I really put my real self out there and it gets rejected, I have nothing to, I can't go back and protect myself. Like, well, that wasn't really me or I didn't really try my heart. Like, I lost the race, but I wasn't running as hard as I could. Like, I went as hard as I could and I still lost and that a lot of people can't deal with. And so I, and I know, I know it's bold as you are or as many chances of use as you've taken for sure you've had to have failed a bunch of times. No way you could succeed at everything. Well, I feel more than I've succeeded. How do you deal with that?

So this is a couple of things you said. First of all, there's a big difference in my opinion between being bold and taking up and risk. Risk and bold is different to me. I feel like bold is, I think you've got to take risks that are intelligent risk. Like if you have a like intelligent risks, right? Like if you have a family of four, right? You're not gonna quit your job today

and just like hope for the best, right? You gotta put yourself in a situation, you gotta put yourself in a situation to win or like things don't just happen just through osmosis, right? You gotta put yourself in opportunities happen when you put yourself in a place where you can win. And you're constantly putting, it's not as simple as that.

So you're not advocating for people and they just, oh, bold, okay, cool. I did it. It's not just like my idea is that be smart about putting yourself in not just opportunities, but aligning yourself in places where you have the potential to increase your chances. I don't think that I think it's about being around the right people. It's about taking small steps.

You don't have to go from zero to 60. But I think being bold is being honest with yourself, taking like a mental check of like, or like a self-awareness check and saying, okay, where do I want to be in my life and where am I right now? And what are the steps I need to get there? That's what I'm talking about.

It's like if you want to be a basketball player, right? An MBA basketball player and you are five one. Yeah, maybe that's not the bet. I mean, maybe you shouldn't quit your job tomorrow and just, you know, say, you know what, I'm gonna become an NBA. I think about like, well, you know what, I like basketball.

What am I good at? Would I be good at maybe what can I work for a team? What, you know, or should I, can I be a, can I be a straight in conditioning coach? Could I do this? Be somewhat like open-minded and creative and have, pick a style, not, you don't even have an exact destination,

but have a direction, that's my point. And being realistic with what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. Stay in that lane. How many times have you done something where you went into it with this intent, it was going to look a certain way and then it ended up being completely different than what you imagined it to be? So, so right. So that's what I was going to actually say.

Is that my whole premise is that you have to at least try, right? Like you have to make attempts at at least going after in the direction that you're interested and passionate about. And actually the truth is, 9 out of 10, a lot of times it's going to fail. You're most of my life, whatever I actually went for, I never actually got. But another opportunity presented itself that I never even knew existed by even going down those steps and going down that path. So my whole point is, don't just count yourself out before even trying. That's my point. Don't just say, oh, I'm not good at that or why me or why should it happen to me. I'm like, act as if, you're the act as if, why not?

Like, I just, I turned it around and saying, you know, if it can happen to Joe Blow and it can happen to that person or this person, why can't it happen to me? But you gotta put yourself in a place to win. So that's the point. No, I love that analogy. And even using the basketball one, for example,

and let's use the five one type of character of going to like, listen, deep down, I want to be a basketball player so bad. But I'm open to whatever takes, I'll be the ball boy. I'll clean the floors. I'll do anything to be around that environment. Start to fire me. I'll be a channel that talks about NBA.

Right. And deep down, I hope they see me and they see my talent. I get an opportunity. But what's maybe what might happen is I end up being a strength and conditioning coach or maybe I end up being this, but by the way, the guy who is the VP for the Warriors started as the like assistant ballboy guy who's now walking around with the ring and sitting course. I met him last time as a game.

So, you know, there's an example of somebody who probably had no idea it was gonna end up being that for him, right? They probably didn't. Like, I, this is put yourself in the vicinity of what you're interested in. That's basically the bottom line. Like, put yourself in the vicinity. Like, you're not gonna go on that NBA court and start like, you know, getting three pointers,

but at least like work within that area. And like, you will kind of like, you will find your way. So, that's what I've done my whole life. Like, that's my point've done my whole life. That's my point. And I feel like, to what you're saying is that, yeah, if you fail and then people fail, well then it kind of brings you back down

and get you worse down that black hole or rabbit hole. So you've got to practice the idea of failure. To me, make yourself immune to failure. So it doesn't, it doesn't become, I guess I would say, disensitize yourself to failure. How do you do that? And I was like, a mental game or just because you try.

I think it's a meant, I think it's a lot of things. I think you become disensitized to failure when you fail a lot. So I'm gonna tell you something was really interesting. So last year, I did a talk at MIT, right? And the talk was about resilience. And what I found super interesting,

I'm like, this is, I had to talk to people who are literally the best in the world, right? The smartest people in the world go to MIT, right? And here I am, in talking to the smartest people in the world about failing. I'm like, the irony was not lost on me for a moment, right? Like, in fact, I got there, and the lineup was me plus five other people, right? And I brought my husband along to this thing, and I'm looking at the bios of the people. The person speaking right before me

was a Harvard scientist at MIT graduate, also Harvard MIT, was best inventor of the year, not once, but twice by Time Magazine. A Time Magazine, most influential in the, most influential, in the 100 most influential people in the world, has had two companies.

One was sold under six months for $180 million, and I go on and on, okay? And it's, what's going through your stomach when you're reading it? I'm like, this is a joke. And you got to follow that girl. I was like, yeah, so I'm following him. He was a first to speak and I was number two.

Okay. I read his bio and I'm like, is this a fucking joke? I'm like, I'm like, is this a joke? Like, how did this, like, how did they pick me? Like, why am I here? Like, I would, and so the guy was standing beside me and he's like, what do you do? This is what the guy says to me. Same David.

And the story gets better. And I'm like, what do I do? I'm like, a whole lot of nothing compared to you. That's my share. Oh, I forgot to tell you. This is the best part. He's like, he's saying. Which, by the way, okay, that's,

you just went over that really fast, but that's such an endearing and brilliant thing to say to a person like that. Only because you caught it, you know, because you know. Of course, because the natural reaction to almost any human would be feeling secure in that moment. And then to move her cup and say, what you do, I've written four books and I have this podcast.

What 100%? And I talked to all these people, but the fact that you still have the humility in that situation and know to do that is brilliant. Thank you. First of all, the fact that you stopped me at that moment, I'm not surprised because I feel that a lot of part of emotional intelligence is knowing your audience and understanding the place you're in, right? Like, kind of like, know the room, right? And if I were to try to like, out do that guy, I look like an ass, right? So at that moment, like the only place for me to go

is to be self-deprecating, right? So knowing the room that you're in and knowing kind of like picking up on cues is so vital to success and like ability, I think, right? Agreed. So if someone's gonna, when people do that with me in general, right, when they try to like, like, out do, like, oh, I'm this, I'm that. It's like such a turn off.

I have no interest in like, I don't care how successful you are or how unsuccessful you are. To me, that's a turn off. I think humility is very underrated. Anyway, so I say to this guy, you know, whatever blah, blah, blah, like it's obvious. And I didn't tell you this part. He also was the guy who created the cure or the, what do you call it?

The antidote. Yeah, to SARS and like he worked. And like to all these other like ailments, he was like the, he's like the number one guy in like lung capacity. It's like insane, okay? So, and so he's asked me what I do, and I'm like, well, you know,

whatever I do is squat, I do a lunge, I know how to do a plank for some a while, you know what I mean? Like laughing, and he's, you know, he kind of has a sense of humor, but he's, you know, he's kind of a little bit more standoffish. And then, and then he talks, and then I talk. And the idea, two points I'm going to try to make. The first point about MIT, what I wanted to roll back

and I'll get back to David, is that why they had this talk about resilience and failure at MIT is because those people never fail. And so when they, when they fail, their fall is way harder. That makes sense. Right? And so that's, that's my perspective.

So we put you to the like, let's, let's, let's, let's, this is all going to circle back and make a lot of sense. I promise you, okay? I know I'm going in a lot of different directions, but let's stay in this hole with you at MIT,

because there's a lot of good points that I want to make. The first one is that they have the highest suicide rate. MIT? Yes. Because people, because they don't wanna fail. And so when they fail, it's like gut wrenching. And they don't know how to, they don't know how to like, to deal with it and process it, right?

You know what I did, Jen, with that, is that with my kid who does really well in certain subjects, he had the opportunity to do a class that would challenge him versus one that was in here. I definitely encouraged him to do one. I said, I'd rather you get a C in this challenging class than an A in this other easy class.

I agree with him. And I know it's okay, my dad get it easier to get in college with the A, but with the C, he's gonna get his ass kicked a little bit bit and that's valuable. It's super valuable. And this is, I will talk about that actually. I talk about that in my book. This whole caudal culture nonsense that goes on in this world is unbelievable. Everyone wins a participation trophy. No parent wants their kid to fail when failure is a part of life. And if they don't learn how to fail early, it's gonna be detrimental to their life later on. And this is a, by the way,

that's a whole podcast in itself. But so that's why at MIT, that so my whole thing was that because I've failed so many times, like I have literally a master's in failing, but a PhD in getting myself right back up. And that's what I said to them at the beginning. I'm like, that's why I'm here to talk to you is because I've become so

disensitized that now I don't give a shit. I can try anything and if I lose, if I fail, if I get rejected, I don't care. I'm going to try again. I'm coming right back. I'm coming right back because I've become so immune to failing. It's like nothing to me. It's like drinking water, having lunch. You know, like it doesn't matter. It's the people that are always winning

that have the problem who are the ones who overthink things, who are the ones who can't get up when they fail. And that's why in life, a lot of these people who've become extraordinarily successful in their life, they had a lot of challenges people who've become extraordinarily successful in their life, they had a lot of challenges when they were younger. They weren't the people who were the smartest. They weren't the people that were the prettiest and the most this or the most that. They didn't win every single award. They had to learn how to be resourceful and learn how to like brush themselves back, you know, brush themselves

off and get right back up when they won or when they didn't win because they had to. And the only way to do this that I can think of and I love your input on this is to do it, right? You can't get, you know, developed this immunity, right, to failure unless you fail the bunch of times. That's the only way to do it. So basically it's wherever you're at because someone may be listening who's super talented. They're like, well, I'm just good at everything. Well, you haven't tried

hard enough. You haven't tried hard enough. You haven't gone out and put yourself in positions where you could potentially fail. Why worry about those people? Because the people who don't fail at all and who are supposedly good at everything, they're usually coasting a lot of times in life. And their life becomes very much like this. They're not the ones who are going to like really kind of like just go, they're never going to like go exceed and go right for the moon because they don't feel that they need to. They haven't learned that need to be gritty, that need to be like thinking out of the box and how to be resourceful or how to be how to kind of, you know, figure shit out when things go wrong.

And in life, it's things go wrong. Nothing for it. And I don't care who you are. There's not one person in life. In my opinion, it's a fact. It's a fact. Who in life has never had hardship somewhere. And if you don't learn that hardship at some point, when you do fall and when you do have,

you know, something God forbid happening, you don't know how, you don't have the, you don't have the wherewithal and the ability to deal with it. Like, you need to have tools. And you learn those tools by being kind of mediocre, like when you're young or just average enough. Like to me, you know, I, I think one of my biggest superpowers

was I was just kind of average in a lot of ways. So in order for me to kind of, kind of like shine in anything, I had to really work hard for it. I, you know, like nothing came easy to me. So I had to learn how to like, to your point, like everything I'm okay at is So I had to learn how to like, to your point, like, everything I'm okay at is because I had to put in like a lot of, a lot of practice, a lot of man hours and like,

create whatever this is. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't born fit. I had to like put tons of hours into it. And then I became fit. And then I had to maintain the fitness. And it's like, it's like, once you get there, then you have to kind of maintain it. But this idea that things just should have come naturally and if like I'm entitled to have this success or I'm entitled to to be, you know, fit, I'm entitled, you know, I should be this. No, doesn't work that way. So, Jen, what are your thoughts then on, because this, I feel like this is a an interesting topic that we hear a lot about, like, I feel the oppression Olympics, and everybody talks about privilege. Yeah. This is a very relevant culturally right now.

This is this, this particular discussion. And I, right, we talked a little bit about with Mac, because I recently talked about on the show, I got some pushback from the audience and stuff like that because I made comments about, I find it really interesting that we just assume that having all the money, having all the opportunity, going to all the best schools, winning all the time is such a place of privilege. In fact, maybe it's more a place of privilege to come from not having a lot because what you had to overcome. So what are your thoughts around the culture and how we feel about privilege and we talk about,

oh, that's because he's so privileged. Like, what are your thoughts on that? So I think there's a lot to unpack with that, right? Because I've seen it all the time that, and that's I guess I do have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder again. I got a lot of chips on my shoulder apparently, but because I do feel that it's a lot of things in life are, quote unquote, unfair, right?

But life's not fair, where someone can have a deck that stacked way better than another person, right? But the first question becomes, well, what's success to you, right? Is it that because you were positioned in a family that had some money, a lot of money, so you're able to go to these great schools and therefore have the alumni to then help each other to make a lot of money, that's fine.

But is that what your goal in life is? Is it just if money, if like, if you have a lot of money, does that make you have a rich life? No, that just makes you fucking a lot of money, does that make you have a rich life? No, that just makes you fucking rich. Does it make you rich in the soul or spiritually or mentally satiated? It makes you rich. So to me, that's not interesting, right?

To me, that's not enough. Now I do believe that I, doesn't matter what my hand is, so it doesn't matter what your hand is, I have to play the hand I'm given anyway. And so I have to think, and this is where the self-awareness thing comes at, what is important to me to have a successful life? What is important to me for I have to feel that, I have a rich life, and then I gotta play the hand I'm given

and make it the best possible. I do believe though that with that being said, that a lot of what bothers me when people are given so much privilege, and then they don't utilize it well. I really can't stand that. Yeah, they squander it. Lazy talented people, really, really hard.

It's really hard for me to see. Lazy talented person really really hard. It's really hard for me to see lazy or people who don't appreciate like that the lazy talented person or the person who is given everything and they're They think that they just they they earned it like that that place like I have that's why I see a lot in LA right a lot of these people who Who they feel and the entitlement of like, when they don't even earn it, they were just given it and then they're not doing anything more with it,

I guess, is a problem. But I think this comes down to this whole co-tall culture mentality, where people are just like, are way too protected in this world and given everything. I think there's something to be said for, I don't care if, if I'm making a lot of money, I'm doing, I'm doing a disservice to my kid.

If I just hand everything to them, well, you can, you can try all you want to make life perfectly safe for your kids or you can make them tough so that they can, the question is, how do the question is, what does that mean? So I feel that it's like, what we're talking about before is that you have to teach your children that they're not gonna always win and that they are gonna fail and that they have to be resilient and like they're gonna have to,

they should work ethic, whatever happened to work ethic in everything in life, right? It doesn't matter, like I feel like these kids who have, who are given everything, the great schools and the money, and you lose that, that like, that like fight to do it yourself. And what I was gonna say, but that's, so now you have a lot of money, right? You get to go to the schools, you have the alumni, you have all these things, all these, to position yourself for what's considered

in society to be successful. But does that necessarily build character? And when you don't do it yourself, you don't think that plays on someone's self-esteem long-term. I know a lot of people who were given a lot of shit and are super considered successful because they were positioned to be successful, but deep down, you know.

You know if you did it by yourself. You know what you were given. You know how resilient you really are. And I think that in order to be really confident and to have a true sense of self and self esteem, you have to be able to have self efficacy to know that you could do it on your own. When did you figure this out about failing?

Because I'm sure when you were younger, the first few times. When I failed. Well, yeah, well, the first few times, I mean, I'm sure it sucked. Can you think back to the first time when you failed at something? You're like, oh, it sucks. Well, never a great student, number one. I was a terrible student, it's a great student. Well, I was never a great student. Number one, I was a terrible student. And I would, in math, it was like, it was such an embarrassment. So I failed at math.

But I think one of the things that happened to me actually was you're gonna, you know, dancing at the time, I don't know, I'm not a bad dancer, but at the time, let's see. Yeah, we'll do it later. We'll dance together later. I think I've gotten better, see, because it was such a traumatic experience that I practiced

and practiced and now I'm like the best dancer. No, not. But I took that energy into fitness. And so that's when that opportunity came. So when I was younger, I think I was like 12 or 13. We all, there was like a dance troupe called the Chai Dance Ensemble. And the Chai Dance Ensemble was like Israeli dancing, because that was Israeli.

And it was like what everyone wanted to do. So like all my friends, we all would try it. We all tried out. Literally all my friends got in but me. I was the only one who didn't get in. It was like humiliating, right? And I couldn't believe it. And so like they would go practicing every day

and they would, they would couldn't believe it. So like they would go practicing every day and and they would, you know, they would like talk about it. And like it built a lot of like, you know, camaraderie, camaraderie, right? Because they were like experiences thing together. And I was like not involved. So that's basically I was like, oh my god, this is so terrible. I can't believe it. And I, I'm like such a loser. And then one day I decided, you know what? Okay, I've got, after school, they're doing all this high dancing, doing whatever they're doing in Israeli dance.

And there was a new gym that opened up near my house called Shapes. It was a women's, it was like a women's all women's gym. And I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna go in there and see what's happening. And I took like an aerobics class, like a step aerobics class. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna go in there and see what's happening. And I took like an aerobics class, like a step aerobics class. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, maybe I should just do this.

And so I went again. And then I went again. And then I'm like, here, there's a stair master. And then slowly but surely I started to like really like get into like this whole fitness thing. And I started to like notice myself, like my body was changing. I was like, Oh my God, I'm getting really, I'm getting strong. And I feel strong physically, which then I feel mentally more strong. And then I'm like, I really like this step aerobics thing.

Maybe I can teach aerobics. So then I went to get my little, you know, certification for like, for like group fitness, right? And then now I'm teaching aerobics at the lake. So my failure turned into a lifelong win, right? The one thing I was rejected at, it gave me that opportunity to find a true passion which then led to my entire life of health and fitness stuff, right?

So I became an aerobus instructor, I became super fit, and then everyone was looking at me differently. They're like, wow, like where are those abs come from? And like, why is your ass so tight like that? And I'm like, and so like, I felt like it totally transformed my entire being, right? Like all my friends were like doing like potter braze in their dance class and I'm like getting really, really fit. And it took my life in a whole different trajectory. So my, I guess my, the point is that sometimes your biggest failure ends up being your biggest success.

And that's the truth. I think one of the challenges that people have with that is they tend to like seek what they're passionate about. And like let's say you like you were really passionate about dancing like that. And then when the dancing fails, they shut down versus being open-minded to like, well, you were like, okay, well, they're busy now. I have nothing to do with that time. Let me put that time somewhere else. and then it led to this lifelong success for you. So I- Or what's next?

I think it's about putting yourself places where you try a lot. You don't know what you don't know. That's the bottom. You don't know what you don't know. You have to try a lot of shit to know what you like and what you don't like. It's like in fitness.

How many times do you guys get asked the same question? What's the best thing to do for fat loss, for bustle gain, for this, or like, what's the best form of exercise to lose weight? I get that question of ton still. And it's like the thing that you're going to do the most. If you hate something, you're never going to do it, right? So find something that you like, and it's a because it becomes a beginning of trial and error in life, right? Just trying and seeing and doing, but just because something didn't work out for you, like the whole thing is like if a door closes, find a window and if that window's shut,

look for another window or then dig a hole that that doesn't work. Like you have to be resourceful. Like I cannot stress enough the importance of being resourceful and learning how, you know, when things don't, when things zig and you have to sometimes zag, it just is life, you know. I think that's because we look at failures is such a negative thing.

Like, I learned to reframe failure is actually a positive thing. It means I quickly got to my answer, like, oh, I'm not good at that. On to the next thing, or, oh, that doesn't work. On to the next thing, versus, oh my God, identifying as the failure. Like, I think we attach ourselves to this thing that we're pursuing, and then when it fails,

we now go, oh, I'm a failure. Like, no, I just failed at that thing. It wasn't for me on to the next thing. On to the next thing. And so you have to reframe how you look at failing. And I actually learned to look at it as almost a positive thing. And I began, I remember for me in my early 20s, I read this article because I was very money motivated when I was young.

And I wanted to be a millionaire, right? Because I was a big deal back then, right? To be a millionaire. And I remember reading. Now you want to be a millionaire, right? Cause that was a big deal back then, right? To be a millionaire. And I remember reading that- Now you wanna be a billionaire. Yeah, I did. No, actually I don't give a shit about that so much anymore.

The police should, man. Yeah. But I remember reading that the average millionaire had nine failures before they get to 10. And at this time I'm only like 22, I'm like, oh shit, I've only failed it like one or two things. So then my attitude was, I gotta hurry up and fail seven more times. If I'm even gonna be in that statistic, right?

So I think that really helped shape and reframe how I looked at failures of kids. Well, who's more likely to be successful? The person who identifies with success or the person who identifies with tenacity, right? The person who identifies with resilience. Like if you identify as a resilient person rather than a successful person, you're gonna go much further. I totally agree.

I also wanna say, sitting in a room full of people who like take fitness seriously, the how that has shaped our lives, right? Because I think fitness for me, has gave me the fundamentals to really feel like I can go out and conquer my life, right? Because it teaches you goal setting. It shows you when you actually have a goal

and you actually get to that place, it then feel the confidence to keep on going. It teaches you like discipline and all the incubator for self growth. 100%. It's no, it's not really a coincidence, right? There are a lot of people who have become extraordinarily successful are also the same people who have taken some form of fitness seriously.

You know, like, these are like building blocks for real, true success of life. You're speaking my language and part of the reason me teaches you self acceptance. You talked about, you know, working with the cards that sacrifice, like, yeah, sacrifice what? Yeah, you stick to it long enough, you're like, well, I'm not going to look like the person the magazine, but I'm going to keep going anyway. Or I suck at this, but let me keep practicing this exercise. And then I'll get better at it.

Oh, this hurts. Oh, wait a minute. That's part of what makes my body improve. Oh, I have to do this every single day. I can't just do some of it and then stop. But here's what makes it really powerful. It's nobody realizes they're about to enter into this journey of personal growth. Totally.

I want nice abs. 100%. I was going to say what I think, and how I look at fitness in my head is that it is literally a microcosm of life, of like, of life outside of that. And what you learn and truly, like in a real way, in a true way, is life-transform. That is to me life-transformative right there. And people who don't know, don't know.

Like that's why you have to go on that journey. And like I always say that like if it wasn't for fitness, that I would never have been able to have done and go after and strive the way I have because I would never have had those building blocks because I don't care what you say. When you look in that mirror and you feel physically strong and you know you're strong and you did that because you did it. No one can give it to you. That's the one thing in life that you have to do on your own.

Your mom, your rich mom, your rich dad, they can't go, zoom. You're now super fit, you know? Like with all the people with all the money in the world, they can have every nutritionist, personal trainer, whatever. But if you don't do the work on your own, not going to happen. And if you don't learn along the way and if you don't learn self-acceptance, you know, it's, I used to get clients that would ask me like, well, what happens after a get in shape? They're like, well, we gotta keep going.

You gotta keep going. To stay that way, but, or, but even then, you have to also accept that you age. You have to accept that. I'm not gonna go eat, right? Everybody, right? Everybody does. You have to be.

It's a total process of self-acceptance, growth, work, tenacity, if you stick to it long enough. And again, I love it because nobody knows that when they go into it. You figure that out like five to 10 years later. Nobody knows it. Like when I started and you started, it's like, you're like, hey, I just, you know,

I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got, you know, let me just, I've got nothing else to do right now. Let me try it. But it's like the neuroplasticity, your brain, like there's something that happens in the process where truthfully, your neuroplasticity, your brain, like there's something that happens in the process where truthfully, the neuroplasticity in your brain literally changes. Like the way you think changes, it is unbelievable,

but that's why I tell people, I can only tell you so much. You now have to go, and like the sense, say, like you have to now go and do the work. And then if you stick to it long enough, like anything in life, you will see and reap the results and not just physically, like to me, and I was gonna say this, it's not just physical, right? Like you said, it may start with that might be your starting point,

but what you get out of it mentally and life is way beyond that. Yeah, well, if I had you list your top five reasons for exercise, I bet you looking fit wouldn't be the top point. No, my name would be the top five. When I was 17 maybe, but no, for me now, it is if I don't do that, to me, it's cognitively, what it does for my brain, it put my brain on supercharged.

So my brain may have been like kind of maybe sluggish maybe at some point when I was younger, I don't know, but now it's on supercharged, right? And I'm gonna tell you something funny actually after that, but my mood, my energy, like you said when I walked in here, I'm 105, right? And I'm still like going at a pace that I feel is like, you know, 16. But like the mood, you're my cognitive abilities to kind of like put things together, right? If I, when I don't work out, I feel like my brain becomes literally sluggish, even if

I don't sleep, like if I'm not sleeping that well and not working out, it's a, it's a nightmare. I'm a different person. Yeah. But I still have, even if I'm not sleeping that great, I still have to put the work in on the fitness side to have my brain be optimized. Totally. In my, in my opinion, I don't use as an excuse.

I don't say, oh, I'm too, I never say that because energy begets energy. People don't understand that either. The more, when I work out, I get way more energy, not less energy, right? So that's my first thing. I think my brain, the cognitive powers that you get from the fitness is unstoppable.

I wanted to bring it back and kind of tie in our conversation in the beginning about authenticity. And I had a thought in terms of why that irritates us so much when we meet people that aren't quite as authentic. And just because of all these points bringing up of the work involved, it takes a lot of courage to present your authentic self. It takes a lot of work to even find your authentic self

and to be able to present that to other people. And in terms of like taking those steps and becoming bolder, we know what we went through to get to this point, right? And so is that something that resonates in terms of like, why that is such nails in a chalkboard. We meet some fake person that, you know, maybe they used, you know, PEDs or whatever, and they're not being like honest about it.

Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you is that it really rubs me the wrong way when people, I mean, I don't care what someone is doing physically. What bothers me when someone portrays something that's so contrary to what they portray, right? And people who are disingenuous to me is like my biggest pet peeve, well, one of my biggest pet peeves. And it's because you're right. I think that I feel comfortable in my own skin

that I don't, I feel like, you know, I'm not for everybody, you know, like some people like chocolate, some people like vanilla, I feel like, you know, I'm not for everybody, you know, like some people like chocolate, some people like vanilla, some people like strawberry, I don't try to have, my goal in life isn't for every single person to like me. My goal in my life is for me to like me and be comfortable with who I am. And I feel like every pot has a lid, right? There's some pots that have lid that get off the, there's, there's some pots you can smoke. Exactly. Some pot you can smoke. Exactly. I feel like, I feel when people try to be everything to everyone, that's when they start to have like, that's, that

to me. If you don't have, this is, this might be sound controversial, but if you don't have any enemies, you've never really spoken the truth. How is that even controversial? I think that's, listen, like I think right now in the world that we're in right now, it is, what's happening is insane to me. Can we talk about that for a second? Yeah, if you want to. You know what I mean?

I mean, you want to wind this up. I don't know. I mean, first, if you were an ice cream, what would you be, by the way, since you made the ice cream? I do like chocolate. What would you be though if you were ice cream? I definitely not vanilla. You're not vanilla or chocolate,

you'd be a big fan of chocolate. I would say maybe Jamoka. I like LA Jamoka. What is that? Or like Rocky Road. I'd say Rocky Road. What would you be? You put mint chip.

Oh, I almost got it. Oh, mint chip. Why mint chip? Well, because I'm going to all you to love me or hate me. You know, and I'm different. I'm definitely not vanilla or chocolate. Definitely not vanilla. But I'm likeable and I can grow on you. Like if you're not, you're

never really like self-used. He's still ice cream. I still like that. That's great. So that's, and so that you're right. Because mint chip, not everyone loves it, but some people like obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with mint chips. So. So do you think most people like Rocky Road or not really? Rocky Road is right there with men's ship I think. I think so too because either people can really get into it or not so much. Or the like chunky bits or what? Yeah, like it's not like bland enough. But if you love it, you love it.

Yeah, and it can grow on you, right? Yeah, I'm going to sorbet because I can't very, you're sorbet. Yeah, I'm bubblegum because it's fun and I'm sophisticated people won't eat it I feel like you're like coffee coffee I love I would say coffee ice cream I'm gonna change it because I love coffee ice cream and I feel like most people love it But there are a few who don't have you tried it. They can get they can get there What's that thing that you guys always get of a Fogato? Is that the one with a coffee? It's like coffee

ice cream with espresso. Oh, that sounds delicious. Yeah. So it's like sugar, caffeine. You're just all the stuff. Ready. Yeah. By the way, can you believe that we've never worked out together? Yeah. We never worked out. We never worked. Yeah. By the way, can you believe that we've never worked out together? Yeah. We never worked out to each other. Oh really? Yeah, people always think that. They're like, oh, you guys get to work out your best for those of us.

They never work out together. I thought you guys always do. I can count on one hand in eight years. We've all worked out together. I think we've only all genuinely worked out together. Maybe three times. It's just in the beginning. It's just a five time shot up.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know why? You want to, you probably wondering why. I'm way too strong. I'm really, I'm way too strong for something. Yeah, you probably are really. That's exactly.

By the, you're not honest. You know, I beat him to that. I knew that's what you were saying. No, that's not what I'm saying. Why are you going to say it? I'm too strong for these guys. No, there's two, because we all have very personal relationships with fitness. So number one, so we all want to do our own workout.

Yeah, I totally like to follow any else's workout. Totally. So like what'll happen is we'll start working out together. He's going to want to do one thing. I don't have any mirrors at my age. I'll do another thing, whatever. You know it's really funny. I get anxious sometimes when people always say,

why don't work out together? And I'm like, mm-hmm. Okay. You can follow my work out. Exactly. When we know and we meet other fitness people that they always want to do that, we always avoid it. Yeah, always, right?

I think we've worked out with Ben Pocolsky the only person we ever worked out with. No one else we've ever worked out with. These are so mags, they want the hero videos. It's so true though, right? You guys want to meet up and work out tomorrow? We're like, yeah, not really. Exactly.

I'm gonna sleep in tomorrow. I'm gonna sleep in tomorrow. I'm gonna sleep in tomorrow. I mean, I just feel like I know what I like and what works for me. I don't want someone else, although I'm supposed to be going to Nashville to work out with Gunner Peterson. Oh!

He has, you know who he is? Have you ever had him on this podcast? No. He's like, do you enter a celebrity train, right? Yeah, no, I have an interview. I was gonna do a podcast while I'm there, but he built up this like 5,000 square foot gym in Nashville. He used to have this crazy gym near my house,

but now he moved, but he has so many toys there, so much shit. It's crazy. I'll never work out with a fitness influencer because I 100% it's gonna be a lie. Let me show you, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not like that, but yeah. But yeah.

And that's the other reason why we don't work out is our, because we all are competitive. And I know what happened. As soon as we see what just did you just you just started I know okay, but I but you're wearing a teach a tight tight Yeah, he also he also put you Put the Diddy yeah before you got here. I did what I

See your vid I see you you're crazy fit yeah like sick fit you you have a great squat you can squat better than anybody Thank you. Thank you. He has he's a Squat and by the way he's so good at Yeah, you're a Diego you got beautiful by the way We just promote my book for the next three weeks to and by the way will you Thank you, but I will tell you he makes the funniest jokes about you guys. Oh my god I he's not funny Instagram is hyster I like almost, if it wasn't for

the fact that I try to like, I try to like control myself or else I'd be pressing LOL on everything. You just wait. I'm gonna get back. Oh, so funny. You said to humor is like perfect for me. I love it. I'm gonna get back on though. I'll get back on. What happened to you? I got kicked off. what? Oh God, long story. It's because it was a whole period where people were getting kicked off for making certain statements. Oh yeah, okay, that was when you got kicked off. And they actually went through old stories that I posted years before that had disappeared years ago

and they were giving me warnings about them. Like this is weird. And then I got kicked off, so. Just do care. I actually know, I don't need that. I didn't affect the business. I don't care. I don't care.

I went on Twitter and then boom, lo and behold, Elon bought Twitter. I'm not saying that I made that happen. Right, but is there a some type of problem into this maybe? Yeah, there's some weirdness there. But I might go back on. We'll see what happens.

But do you feel like a lot of your time has been like now you have a lot more time in your day because it's such an addictive social media So addictive right? I mean, I didn't do a whole lot on there except for posts like memes that I would find funny and then Occasional thoughts, but I always had similar stuff. Yeah, I write my thoughts down anyway And I'll usually bring them up on the show So it's not really it didn't really take too it didn't like save tons of time right? For us was always to disappear anyways, so we set out, we want to turn it all off without we want to get to a point where

the only way to even hear us is through this. And then you won't be able to actually communicate with us. Really? Yeah. That's so cool. That's so, you guys are so clever. I love that. It's not really.

Is it a good business? I feel like it's really. You know what's clever about you guys? Like I said at the beginning of this podcast, what made you got, in my opinion, part of your success is that you've stuck to the rules that you guys have made with each other. And it's like one for all or all for one type of situation. And it's clear and concise. And you have a goal and you know what you want.

And you just kind of you stay on path all the time and it's working. Yeah, no, it's what's it to maybe I don't know if it's to a fault but it that's 100% true like these guys their integrity is so strong that they would burn it all down without compromising their integrity and the the the the cool thing about it is and we've talked about this off air just because because of the climate, right? The way the climate is, of social media, people getting canceled, they said the wrong thing.

Did we say the wrong thing on the podcast? Can we get below back or whatever? We've all talked about this, and if one of us says something that's whatever, and it gets one of us canceled, we're all gonna give everybody the finger and say you could take us all down then. I love that.

And maybe that's a bad thing. It's a good thing, I don't know, but I think you got to stand by that. You have, and that's a bad thing. It's a good thing, I don't know, but, you know, I think you gotta stand by that. You have, and but that's part of your success. Even when you said, you always say actually, not just once, and I pick it up, I picked it up. When you wrote that book, you say our book. It's not like Sal's book.

It's like when we wrote this book or our book. You know that he split those proceeds with us? We didn't do anything with that. And by the way, you know, we would have known what a box if he took all of it. So it was never once did anybody go like, oh, we've got this book deal because of us. Like, bro, I didn't do nothing with that book.

Yeah, but there's a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes with these guys. Well, so reason why each guy does an individual stuff that contributes to the pot, but nobody know, there's a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes with these with these guys. Well, so reason why each guy Doesn't individual stuff that contributes to the pot that nobody has to be that is why you guys are Consistently strong and getting stronger and stronger and growing You know what the big weakness is for people is their ego and if you look at there's a lot as there's so many stories of successful bands or parts or ships where one of them gets a big head and thinks that they're going to go do their thing and doesn't realize

the importance of the rest, you know, it's like, you know, you could be a cake and the icing gets all the, you know, look, this icing is so amazing, but without the eggs of flour or the milk or whatever, you got nothing. So, we all know that and it is definitely one for all with that. And maybe again, maybe to our fault. Now I found, it's great to work with people that feel the same. Look at, I'm gonna use you too as an example. Look at you too.

They've never broken out. They've, Bono has never gone on his own to do his own album, they've always been a cohesive group and they're the most successful band in the world. It hasn't taken anything away from Bano being Bano or the edge being the edge, right? But they noticed very early it's gonna be a one for all or all for for one and that is what it is. Look at all the bands who were super successful and then the lead singer got too big of a head. He went on his own and they never they they never when they back, it was never the same.

And they were never the same. If they just played it out and stuck it out together, like Harry Styles right now, right? He had that one direction. I'm not gonna, that's a bad example because one direction is hardly you too, right? But, you know, what I'm gonna say is that band's now gone without him. And he's gonna probably, like, he's no Bono, right? But you know, what I'm going to say is that bands now gone without him. And he's

going to probably like, he's not, he's no bono, right? So I feel the people who like, when you see you have a good thing and you know how you compliment each other, you have to like lean in hard and keep that and and that to me is how you really build like success, like a bond like a huge deal. He going ego and greed or a power, both very powerful things. And I think that's, 100% I think that's both, right? It's normally one or the other,

either you seek to be the main person and you care. I mean, that was when we knew it was gonna work early is because nobody wanted that. We had a fourth person on that was a partner, that was part of the show in, so five, including Doug. And I remember that we recorded like 15 episodes before it ever went live, these never aired. And he would have been an equal partner,

just like all of us. And I mean, we had done at this point work, weeks and weeks and weeks of work. Episodes, edit it, it's made a rock, we're about to launch. What happened? He texts us that his sponsor was a little weird because the show was very edgy

and so he says, I got it back out. And he was the one with the social media presence. No. So he had all the social media presence that I mean, Adam had a small, you know, Adam had like 15,000 followers. The rest of us had none. This guy had 100 and something thousand.

That would have been our first time. Yeah, you rock, you rock. He bounced and, I mean, I tell the story, I've told the story a million times. I, we got the text message and I prepared my, this is before I, I really knew these guys, right? We had, we worked together, but we were getting to know each other. And I was like, I remember thinking in my head like, I'm going to get on the phone and I'm going to convince everybody, this was what I thought, right?

I'm going to get on, I'm going to convince everybody that we're going to keep going. And before I could open my mouth, we got on the phone. But literally, before I could open my mouth, I think it convince everybody that we're gonna keep going. And before I could open my mouth, we got the thought, literally before I could open my mouth, I think it was Adam that's like, fuck that, we're gonna go, Justin's like, yeah, let's do it again. I'd have to say a word, I'm like, this is great. I use series. Well, and after we finished the first recording,

I remember he would be like, you know, Sal, you talked a lot in that one, so next time let's let Justin open the show. And then I'll do that. And then we'll rotate. Like, he wanted like, he cared so much about who was getting the most attention. And the three of us were like, okay.

Like, we kind of let him lead that, but none of us cared about that. None of us are like, I don't give a shit. If I sit here for an hour and don't say God damn word. If it's a conversation, I don't care about, I might not say anything. It's gonna work, it's gonna work. See, to me, there's something about a huboer.

What's that? Is it called huboer? Like huboer? Yeah, huboer. Like, to me, I think there's something to be said for that, right? Like, if you cared so much, it's the people like are like, that are like so coveted like that. Like, we were talking about the social media people who hold everything so tightly.

They want to have all the attention. They're so competitive. Like, it's like, I feel like they'll, they will burn, right? But this, the people who are like, who are in whose intentions are really good. And like, it is what, you know, like kind of like let things kind of be the way they're gonna play itself out.

And have like, have not just intention, but have like the right intentions behind it, are the ones that stand the test for time. Look at this. And they're the most successful, but you again, define success that... What's successful is you. Right, and some people, oh, well, this guy makes a lot of money,

and he's not doing any of that. Money's not everything. Like, real success is a sphere that contains quite a bit. And you tend to define it a bit. And I know very wealthy people that are very unsuccessful. I've trained a lot of, look, I tell you what, like all of us at one point, when we were trainers in this area, at some point we made a reputation just in the local area, right, because we trained for so long or whatever.

And we'd get very wealthy people that would hire us. And some of these people, very depressed, very unsuccessful, otherwise, you know, they made a lot of money. And it was great. I mean, I learned so much through training people like that because I could see like, oh, this is not everything. Of course.

That's not everything. And I've had the same experiences, which is why I don't think that money, I never think that money equals success. I just think money equals being rich, having money. That doesn't mean you're successful. And also, like, being happy. Where is the, where is the equation?

Like, money just never equals happiness. I see more people who have money that are miserable than people who are just like broke, but like, really kind of happy. Like, there is a little, like, that's why I think that it's really important to be very than people who are just broke, but really kind of happy. There is a little, that's why I think that it's really important to be very clear and to find what success is for people and what it means.

Because if you just tell money, and this is what happens with, that's why I fucking hate social media people, like that, these motivators. Because that's all they talk about. Because if you make more money, make more money, then that's going to make you successful, but it doesn't. It doesn't make you successful.

It makes you have some money, but that doesn't take away anything else. That's what I mean. You have like, you're happy. It doesn't mean that you're fulfilled. It doesn't mean that you like yourself. It doesn't mean you like yourself. To find it for you. You know, it's fun.

To find success for you. Some of the most. I want to hear. Oh, yeah. I doesn't mean you like yourself. To find it for you. You know, it's fun. To find success for you. I want to hear. I want to hear. Oh yeah, I like to hear you. I like to hear you. I was going to make a comment. Some of the most fulfilled people ever met were volunteers. Yeah.

Yeah. Money is only a tool. Money is a tool. Money is a tool. So what is your success for you? For me, you know what money does? It can help buy. It can help.

It helps buy certain things that you with other like health insurance to be healthy. Sure, also, it's easy. It also can help you buy time. So it can help you buy time. So me successes, first of all, without health, you have nothing, right? So to me, if I'm healthy, then that's the number one thing.

Because without, you can't do anything if you don't have health, right? But to be honest, really really the most important thing to me is like inter-relationships that are meaningful. That to me is like my driver in life. If I don't have relationships or meaning behind relationships, it's very dissatisfying

and I become like very unhappy and depressed. So that to me is what feeds my soul. I love having people who in my life that are like-minded or I feel I can trust and they have my back. I think that's super. I think that to me, being emotionally satisfied to me is being successful.

The fact that having my kids want to spend time with me, have you ever thought about stuff like that? I got to see that part of you when I came to you and reviewed you at your house because you're very successful woman. So, you're understated, but Jen's very successful in what she's done. She doesn't flaunt it, but she's extremely successful.

Hard worker, I was at your house, your kids show up because I don't remember they were getting dropped off or something. Right, right. It was cool, it was like three o'clock. Yes, obviously you have a good relationship with your kids. And then we talked about kids, and you were very involved in what they do.

And being a mom, being a mom is a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Yes. And I remember thinking myself, how does she balance all of this out? I'd love to ask you, how do you balance all of that out? I don't think it's really hard. And I'm not gonna lie to you.

I think it's super difficult. And sometimes I'm better at it than other times. And right now with everything happening with the book, I'm probably a little bit more distracted than I would like to be. But I think at the end of the day, that's the first thing I think of. I don't want my kids not to want to have a bad memory of me

or not want to be around me, or make my kids feel like they're second rate or the back burner. To me, my kids, my kids feeling that they're loved by me and is the most important thing. So I'm very cognizant of that. So when they walk in the room, even if I'm in the middle doing a podcast, as I do it in my house downstairs now, but I'll always be like, I did.

Like I'd be, I'm overly like, like happy to see them because I'd want them to feel that my work is more important than they are, right? Like to me, that's like heart-wrenching if that happens in a bad way. But I don't think it's like, would be honest, if I said, yeah, you could have it all, balance, blah, blah. I don't believe in the word balance.

I don't think life is balanced. I think there's sometimes in life that I'm working too much. And then that part of my life is flailing and I'm doing even extra shitty at. And there's maybe sometimes when I'm like with my personal life and then my business is kind of like this. You know, like when I first had my kids,

when I had my kids, or my both times, actually. Was it the first or the second I can't remember now, but I had a really big opportunity business wise and I wasn't able to take it because I just had a kid. And basically, I went from going up the, or kind of like my trajectory was growing and my prospects were getting higher

and I was going up and up, and then I plummeted really fast. And it took me a long time to kind of get a baseline back and then start to grow again. Because there is something to be said that like when you wanna be present mom, it's different for guys. I don't care what you say.

It's different for guys than it is for girls. You can love me, you can hate me, but that is the case. Being a mom, having,, being a present mom, you have this more pressure on you than there is on a guy. For now, you mean pressure from, like, to be available and to take care of. Can I tell you something?

Yeah. So here's, now I'm gonna back you up. Okay, so I have two older kids, right, that I have from a previous marriage. Yes. I'm very involved, okay. We have dual custody with me every the week, but I also see them. Like 50-50?

Yeah, but I also see them on the weeks that they're not with me. I'm always talking whatever. And people are like so blown away. When, oh my God, you're the best dad. I was gonna say that. Nobody says that to their mom. Never. That's the bar's very low.

The bar and men have really set the bar low. And I feel bad about that, but it's totally true. So if you're in every other weekend dad, and you just show up, everyone's like, wow, what a great dad. So I back you up with that. No, by the way, I think it's so terrible, that's 100% true.

And like, for example, I was saying, my husband's in Miami for the week, right? That's why I can't stay for your party. I gotta go back because I'm gonna be, I gotta go home. And I feel like it's not the same, like if it was the opposite way around, I would be shun. Like, how did she go away? I would, I'd be so judged.

Like, oh my gosh, she's gone for a week. I leave for like 48 hours. I get like, I get people just like, my, my, my own mother is like, how can you leave your kids for 48 hours? It was like, what's more important to your kids or your work? I'm like, mom, I'll be back at like 27 hours, you know? Like, but there's so much more pressure on a woman to be present and available for their children than for a guy.

Like my husband's been gone for, you know, 10 days. He comes back and takes the kids to a basketball, their basketball practice. And like everyone there's like, oh my God, you're such a wonderful dad. Oh, great. Oh my God, you're so wonderful. I'm so present. I'm like, you're like off.

Like really? Who takes them to the doctors? They're dentists, who's feeding them, who's going grocery shopping. Who's like, what kind of bullshit is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now hold on. Now I'm gonna back up the guys here for a second.

No, not save us, honey's gonna save us. 100% true, but those societal pressures come from, they start from nature. What I mean by that is it's far more rare for a mother to abandon her children. That's true. Naturally. Naturally.

And look, I've witnessed this, I have four children. The bond that a mother has with her child, first of all, it starts way before it does with the father. You're connected to the baby, you're growing the baby. We don't make, we make that bond after they're born and it actually starts to develop after they're born and they, you know, the months that with us, mom's already got that.

Totally. Strong as bond. So it comes from there. So it does come from there. Just like if you and your husband were out with your kids and a dog, a rabid dog came and tried to attack you guys. And you ran away with the kids,

everybody wouldn't say anything. If your husband took the kids and ran away and left you there, there'd be different judgment, right? So there's different pressures. That being said, it's a hundred percent agree. I mean, the same. The bar's super low. I think it's the same thing with men,

with the providing, right? Like I have them. Yeah. One of my best friends, his wife actually, they both make decent money. She makes better money than he does. He is one of the most like active father. I mean, he gets them up and feeds them for breakfast. He takes them to school.

He picks them up. He does a lot because his job is flexible hours wise. She works longer hours. So he does all this, but he gets kind of pumped and disrespected by some of our peers and our friends because he doesn't make as much money as his wife does. Totally. So it's like, I mean, we get judged differently

by everybody else, but I totally agree. It's that way for women being present and then men for being the provider or not. And what happens, I feel like what people don't only talk that much about is that there's so many like this, it's the devil's in the details when you're raising kids, right? Like there's so many things that you have to do in the minutiae of things, right? Like the coordinating, the organizing, which is very time consuming, right? The driving to like the practices or the doctors or all of that.

The little things. The little things. The little things that take up a lot of time. So if you're a working mom, like I am, plus you have all the minutia stuff, then like, you're not gonna have as much time to do the quote unquote fun stuff, right? Like doing all the things that the dad gets to do.

So that what happens is this is like a bonus contention, right? So then like you're, I mean, I'm talking for a friend here. This is true. This is all I'm laughing at. This is all I'm laughing at. That's all I'm laughing at right now. I'm speaking, I'm speaking on my friend's behalf. Dad shows up.

All right, kids, we're gonna have my screen. Yes, or like, hey kids, let's go to the trampoline park, or hey kids, let's go play basketball, hey kids, and then I'm stuck, or my friend's stuck, doing all this shit work, you know, plus actual work in my career. Let me tell you something, I'm gonna make you feel better right now. Okay. Because again, because I got divorced, I can't do it.

You're gonna make my friend feel better. I'm gonna make your friend feel better. I got to witness this firsthand. So I was the fun dad in my first marriage. And when I got divorced, I really had to get involved because otherwise, I'm not gonna see them half the time. Right. So I did the doctors, I did the school,

I know the teacher, make them lunch, but it was a learning curve, so I did none of that before. Right. Here's what I realized though, that's how you know your kids. I did thought I knew my kids, but I didn't know my kids.

You're 100% right. It was the storytelling, the putting bed, put your pajamas on, make your breakfast, make your lunch, take you the doctor. That's how you know your kids. So although it's the work and it's the whatever, you otherwise you don't know. You don't really know,

you don't really develop that relationship. What a piece of it. You don't exactly, but it goes back to this whole, you don't know what you don't know, right? So, my friend would say that, you know, when she wakes up with the kids every morning to make breakfast and make the lunches

and coordinate and organize, then like I said, Then the girl only has a finite amount of time to be super efficient with taking care of herself, which is, let's say, working out or whatever it is, working out for sure for my friend. And then also making sure the house stuff is looked after. Then you have three or four hours to be super efficient with like your professional life. You know?

Versus a guy who can spend what, 12, 15 hours a day, let's say doing that, and then 45 minutes of like, what, like, hey kids, let's, you know, like, I'm going to take you, but you know, like, let's do some backflips or let's, you know, watch, you know, like, I'm gonna take you, but you know, like, let's do some backflips or let's, you know, watch, you know, like, let me do something super like dangerous with you. Well, you'll love me and your mom will fucking free me out. And that becomes the balance. That becomes a relationship. I find this car is so funny because I think

we've all had these car machines. Oh, right. Oh, I saw a video once that you posted where I thought maybe your wife would have freaked out. You, I think you took your kid and you were throwing them up. I launched them on that bean bag. I'll throw you the bean bag and we were ducking. I was thinking from here.

Oh my gosh. My husband, when my kid was three years old, he threw him on a Velcro wall. Okay. I could throw a kid and I was standing somewhere. My back was to the thing, right? And then like, I'm like, that can't be happy with my, I'm like, that can't be Dylan. Throw him, he ends up upside down, my kid.

Okay, they couldn't get him off. I fucking lost my shit, okay? And then you see all these parents like, oh my God. And my husband was like, what's the big deal? He can come off and he knew I was gonna freak out, which is why he had to pretend like it was no big deal. But like my kids laugh, they go, I mean, he's the most fun parent in the world.

Meanwhile, you know what I mean? Like, it's like the kids don't, the kids end up liking the fun parent more because they're fun. Yeah, but then look, look at Mother's Day and Father's Day, you know, it's like, the kids know this. They know. They come as full circles, they get older.

Mama is absolutely. I think it better for my friend. Yeah. I wish you would bring your husband down here at once. I mean, he needs to bring himself in. It's okay. I'm sure you're going to get along. You would get along. Every guy loves once. I mean, he needs to figure himself out. It's not fair. I'm pretty sure you're going to get along. You would get along.

Every guy loves him. I told you, every guy loves him. He's also like very, he does all sorts of like crazy stuff like that. What do you call that thing? Hydrophoiling now is his big thing. Hydrophoils and like, he is like a big biker and like. Are you kids super out? Because you guys are a bit athletic.

Yeah, they're athletic. They are. I mean, they do a lot of that stuff like my my little ones The soccer player basketball baseball Everything I mean how do your kids know seven and nine. Oh, okay. Yeah, so you're only a few years away from teenagers Well, the nine year old maybe yeah, I mean the funny thing is like they're ready to feel like teenagers I feel like in today's time, I can only imagine. You have no idea. But I feel, you know what I'm saying?

People who have, like, babies think that's a lot of work. I think it's harder now because of all the stuff that, like, you have to deal with. You just wait till you're gonna be fine. What are some of the reflections? What are some of the reflections you've had with the kids? In what way? Seeing yourself, like, where you're like,

like, you see something, you're like, you wanna be mad, you're like, God damn it. My daughter is like exactly like me. She's like super obstinate. But she's like sassy and she's very athletic, she's sassy and she's very, she's observant. So she noticed this thing and calls me out on certain things all the time.

And I can't get mad at her because on one side of me, I appreciate that and I want her to be able to do that. But I'm like, how do you know this? You're seven, you know? To me, that's something that I find super, like it just, it blows my mind how like basically these kids can mirror you or they mirror what you that you don't love necessarily love about yourself and because kids are just so true honest. So like they don't know excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys.

I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. I'm so excited to see you guys. He's got a mini box. You think it never works, right? I mean, as you say, when you have time for all of this, like, stats all the time,

you just say, do everything. Like, just go home all day and just like, what are you doing? You're supporting my family right now. I'm just kidding. No, it's, but you know when they're hot. When they're teenagers, it's tough because, as they're growing up, you're like the coolest thing ever.

And then all of a sudden, you're not. They don't want to listen to you. And they don't want to share with you when there's a problem. Happens already, by the way. That's really hard, you know? When you see something's wrong and you want to listen to you and they don't want to share with you when there's a problem. Happens already by the way. That's really hard. When you see something's wrong and you want to talk to them and they don't want to open up and you're the old, they're, you know, teenagers so they're smart enough and old enough.

Yeah. I can't like force them like what are you going to do? It's really, or they have a tough, you know, relationship with a friend or the boyfriend breaks up with them or the girlfriend breaks up with them. And it's like real like this is, it's not like, oh, not like, oh, I can't find my truck, my toy truck. It's like the girl that I really like now says, she doesn't like me because of this, that and the other. And you're just like, oh, yeah, these are real,

you know, issues now we gotta deal with. And then the consequences of bad decisions are massive as they get older, like drugs, alcohol, driving, under the influence, you know, unprotected sex. I mean, who knows? Like real, like real shit basically. Like real shit. So it's really, really hard.

It's much more challenging for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty, like, four to, wonderful. I can't wait. It sounds so fun. It's so good. It's so fun. I got good kids too, but it's.

I just find it super difficult. And I think that it's just really what I think would be real It's what I find even now It's like when a kid has issues and they don't want to like you see something in your kid that is that that scares you about how they how they React if like when they if they if when someone is mean to them or When they are when they have Whatever it is and you have no you've no power to change that you can't help them or you can have whatever it is. And you have no power to change that. You can't help them or you can't be like,

you can't just step in. You can't just step in and be like, why do you care about that or don't do that? They are their own people. And there's so much power you can have, even with kids who are nine at that point. It's really, my daughter, she had, she, some kids tried to bully her

because they were making fun of her shoes. And this was funny. And I got Adam on the phone because he's a shoe connoisseur. And he basically is like, yeah, he liked totally, like, no, those are, you know, I don't remember what they were. Jordan, whatever, whatever number, something. And, you know, got to hyped up. Tell him Uncle Adam will kick their ass. It was really really cool. But, you know, one thing with, with teenagers, this is a cool thing that I, that my wife taught me is because it's so hard to get them to talk. So she said, just create space. I'm like, what do you mean?

She goes, you know, drive them to school every day, but don't say anything in the car. Eventually, they'll start to talk to you. It's so true. So if you just sit around each other and do nothing, say, no electronics, we're going to be off our phones. What am I going to do? Nothing. We're just going to sit around.

If you do that enough, they start to open up and talk. You don't have to force them. So just being in silence. Just being around, enough, they start to open up and talk. You don't have to force them. So just being in silence. Just being around, just allowing for the space for conversation to happen, that makes it happen. Interesting. Because you can't force it. Well, you know, it's funny because what happens

in that lot of times is like you, people usually overcompensate and be like, so tell me what happened to school, what happened to it. Did you like your teacher? They did it it it it it it it it it it it it it it it it it it. And they don't want to tell you anything because it's when you ask, it's like, by the way, again, a microcosm of life right there, right?

It's like the same thing in adults, right? Sometimes you've got to give a little bit of space for people to kind of get out of their shell and feel comfortable, but it's about reading the room and knowing that. You know what I learned with clients is when you ask them a question and you want more to get from them. So you'd ask them, like, you want more to get from them. So you'd ask them like, so, you know, tell me about your fitness history and then they'll talk, talk, talk, talk and they'll stop.

You just don't say anything and wait. People don't like silence. You just look comfortable with silence. So like five to ten seconds of that and they'll tell you more and then pause till your head five seconds of quiet and then they'll tell you more. That's so true. And then people just keep telling you more and more. So really, I learned that from a therapist.

It's actually 100% true. Do you want me to teach you about, now we're talking about, I'm gonna teach you something for it to change the neuroplasticity in your brain, like an actual physical thing you can do. Yes. Are you ready? Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. You can take us closer, eyes. Nope, you're gonna take your hands, the live audience participate too. This is crazy. Okay, so with your thumb, I want you to go with your index finger, touch your index finger, then your second, third, and then your pinky.

Okay, with this hand, I want you to do the same thing, but the opposite, you're gonna go pinky first, that finger, the middle finger, and then the index. Okay, so now we gotta do them at the same time. At the same time. Can you do it? No way you can. I'm doing it right now.

I'm doing it right now. Look, it's crazy, right? Yeah. It will change the way your brain. I almost did it. Oh, I've messed up that time. That's like doing this. Right here rubbing your belly.

I find this even more difficult. Oh, no, that's more difficult. This is more difficult because what happens is this teaches you patients. This teaches no, that's more difficult. This is more difficult, because what happens is this teaches you patients. This teaches you patients because look at Adam, you did exactly what most people do. Almost nine, like nine and a 10 people, they try it once, like,

fucking, I can't stand it, I'm not doing it again. Which is human nature. It's the people that are like, hey, you know what, I'm gonna try it again. Adam, I'm surprised, I'm not surprised. And if you do it over and over again, and like practice it and get good at it and get faster and faster, it teaches you in that crazy,

I don't know why I just thought about it. What is, you're like, that's why let's get on with it. Yeah, it's giving me a headache. Yeah, exactly. It just made me come up with this new supplement idea. What is the most recent parent failure for yourself? Something that you look back and like, fuck, I fucked up, I shouldn't have done that.

Oh my God. Yeah. Sometimes I lose my shit. I like, for example, I think this sounds so stupid. I think what happened was my kid accidentally spilt, and sometimes she's a little bit of a clots. Yeah, and she knocked over the milk, her milk, and it spilled all over my computer.

And I was like, oh my God, you're such a clutz. And I was like, oh my God. Like I was so mad at myself for weeks about saying that word, because you don't want to say that word. But I think Thumps is just like in a row of like four things that she kind of like made a mistake with. So like before that happened, she was at school and she tripped over a ball and she tripped over a ball.

She knocked her forehead on a metal bench. Split her head open. The school called me. I was like, I ran over to the school, took her to the emergency, went to the special doctor, the plastic surgeon. We had to get her head for four stitches. It was like a whole thing, right? And I was like, it was awful because she tripped.

She was wearing shoes that she shouldn't have worn, and I told her not to wear them. And then, and then after that, like three other consecutive things happened. So this was like the last draw, and I was very mad at myself for saying that. But what are you supposed to do as a parent? Yeah, how do you remedy that?

How do you remedy that? I basically took me a long time to forgive myself, and then I overcompensated by then telling her for the next God knows how long still do, how kind she is, how smart she is, how powerful. So you go the, like the pen that had to sweep. I don't think that's the answer. I think the answer is.

What is the answer? You admit you were wrong. You admit that it was the wrong thing to say. You know what? You just said smart. Yeah, you know what, your mom, I had a morning, I was stressed this to that. You did that, and I reacted, and I said something. I said something I don't truly believe, and I'm sorry.

That's the answer is just to admit you're wrong. You're right, just gonna call it, just kinda bring it to attention and say that. Yeah. And then you don't have to praise her, which she's not really being. 100% I think. I know you're a good mom, by the way,

is you think you're, you're not a good man. You're not a good man. I'm you're a good mom, by the way, is you think you've got to take this. You can't. I mean, listen, it's like, I ruminate over this because, you know what? I have moments like that. You know, because you know what? You're still, a parent is like,

you're still a human being, right? Totally. And, you know, you come times, I react a lot. It takes a lot of energy from me to work on not reacting because I'm super impulsive in my, in general. So it's like, it's like a work in progress. And so that was something that like really bothered me because I know based even on my

podcast, you know, here I have a podcast where I have the best people, the best experts in the world, psychologists, child behavioral therapists, you know, cognitive Stanford, Harvard, whoever come on and tell me about trauma in kids and how trauma leads to chronic illness. Trauma leads to all sorts of mental illnesses down the road. And then here I am with all this like armed with all this information. And then I do something that then I'm going to be telling a story to my own kids life that then I'm gonna be telling a story to my own kid's life that then she may feel a certain way based on what I'm saying and to have that type of like, to have that type of guilt about it.

So, and then I don't wanna be that parent who just like praises to your point. So, I think that's a very good point at them. I think a great thing to do is admit faults and be like, listen, I screwed up as a mom, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that, but sometimes we say things we don't mean. Please forgive me. As like treat a child like you would an adult.

And you know, but you think you don't think about that. No, obviously, in hindsight, 2020, we're sitting here talking about it, so it's easier to piece that together. When you're in the moment, emotions are flying and rolling around, it's probably harder to piece that together. When you're in the moment emotions are flying and rolling around It's probably harder to piece. Right. And you just say shit like, you know, it's I think it's a real I think it's it's an it's an art and it's actually

It's a skill to know when to bite your tongue and not say something and And to be quiet when you when you have all the ammunition and and just to like go, you know, to do the opposite. Yeah, no, we all have those moments. I have moments, right? I mean, I think about him still. I remember once with my kid, he was real little. We were potty training him and he went the bed and I got mad at him for it.

And then one morning I go to get him and he's like sitting in the corner. I'm like, what's up buddy? What are you doing over there? He's like, I put myself in time then, you know, one morning I go to get him and he's like sitting in the corner. I'm like, what's up, buddy? What are you doing over there? He's like, I put myself in time out, you know, because I wet. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, what a piece of shit. I know. Right. Right. I feel so bad. But guilt is a real thing. You know, like it's terrible. Oh, yeah, that's terrible. I just think it's very difficult. I think raising children in general is very, very difficult. That's why it's that's it'll make you grow. If you care, it'll make you grow. If you care.

Because you have to. Because you have no choice. You have to. You have to. Do you ever find that like people with like the differences between those different things like people who don't have kids versus do have kids? Like the kind of like efficiency like I was talking about earlier that you have to be when you have kids.

And like the mental energy and energy allocation that you have to put towards that is so exponentially higher than when you didn't have kids. Oh yeah, but you can't, it's hard to understand until you're there. Because I mean, it's like fitness. Other than, well, more than, I mean, other than your own children, like before you have kids, do you really love or care about anything more than yourself? Right, until you have kids. I mean, you love your parents, you love your partner.

Totally. But then when you have your kids, like, oh, I really love something more than myself. Right. So I mean, how do you know what that's like until you experience it? You don't, that's why, like anything in life, going back to everything we're talking about,

it's like, you don't know what you don't know until you put your, you're in that situation or when you try that certain thing. You ever do this, not once you become a parent, you're ever do this where you're like, you know, maybe you have a bad habit or you do something that you're maybe not so proud of whatever you think. Am I the kind of person that I wouldn't want my kid to grow up and be like, or am I the kind of person that might, that I want my daughter to date?

Like I'll do that one myself sometimes, and it's really powerful motivator. Oh my God, it's so true. I do that, okay, I do that all the time. You do that, you do that. Oh yeah, it's a very powerful motivator. I was like would I want my son to say this or to act this way, or would I want my daughter to bring home a guy that does that?

And then what do you do about it? I change, I try to change and be the person that I would want my kid to be like or want my kid to be married to. You know, it's a very powerful motivator. It's hard though. It's super hard. It's so easy to be selfish and not think about those things, right?

When your, when your kids are even small, right? And I just go about your business or in general because it's one thing to want to change. It's a different thing to actually do the steps to change. Yeah. And that takes a lot of time and commitment. And it takes you to be bold. Yeah, it takes you to be bold, exactly. I bet that's what we're about.

Exactly. Oh, yeah, that's a great circle back there. Absolutely, that's awesome. Yeah. You're always a blast at talk to Jen. Oh, but thank you. One of our favorite people, people have to read your book, listen to your talks, because what you say is extremely

applicable and relevant, extremely applicable and relevant. Thank you. I think it's important that I appreciate that. I wanted to just say that what I like about, and I'm not just saying this because it's my book, but in general, I think it's really important when, if I wrote a book that I feel that has practical, actionable things that people can do to get to where they want to do tomorrow, what they don't have the guts to do today. As opposed to just talking from a white tower, giving people the actual tools to do it themselves

is I think it's fundamental for change and to get to where you want to be. So yeah, thanks. So I'm happy I wrote this book and so I hope someone they like it. I think they will. I think you're an example of it. Oh, thanks. Thanks for coming on, Joe. Thank you for having me.

Thank you. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs.

With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Salad and I'm in Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is MindPump. This is Mindbomb.