Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1996: What to Do If You Feel Like You Are Losing Muscle When Cutting, Ways to Overcome a Recurring Back Injury, How to Improve Performance as a First Responder & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump Rain today's episode. We answered live, callers, questions. But this was after a 54 minute introductory conversation where we talk about fitness, current events, our families, scientific studies,

Starting point is 00:00:29 and much more. By the way, you can check the show notes for time stamps if you simply want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, I want to be on an episode like this one, email your question to live at mindputmedia.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Creatures of Habit. They make a high protein oatmeal that tastes amazing. It's plant protein. So dairy free for those of you that have dairy intolerances, easy to digest. It's got probiotics,

Starting point is 00:00:56 vitamin D, digestive enzymes, tastes amazing. 30 grams of protein. It's a great product. Go check them out. Go to creatures of habit.com. That's creatures spelled with a K. So creatures of a habit.com forward slash mind pump. Then use the code MP25 for 25% off. By the way, that's the biggest discount you'll get on creatures of habit anywhere. This episode is also brought to you by PRX makers of home gym equipment that rivals the stuff you see in the gyms, except it's designed to maximize space. For example, they have squat racks that fold into the wall, but they have lots of other equipment. Go check them out.

Starting point is 00:01:29 Go to prxperformance.com-flour-slash-mind-pump, and through that link you'll get 5% off. Also, we have a discount on three workout program bundles. Each workout program bundle gives you up to nine months of planned workouts. So nine months of expert workout programming, workout demo videos, sets, reps, exercises, everything. By the way, every one of these bundles is $300 or more off. So very inexpensive, huge discounts, huge promotion. The three bundles are the new to weightlifting bundle, the body

Starting point is 00:02:05 transformation bundle, and the new year extreme intensity bundle. If you want to learn more, or you just want to sign up, go to maps January.com. All right, here comes a show. Teacher time. And it's teacher time. Ah, shit, you know it's my favorite time of the week. We have five winners this week, three for Apple podcasts, two for Facebook, the Apple podcast winners are L doll, 26 road racer, 1978 and a lavia for Facebook. We have J Flynn, CC-T and Carmen Elise Michelson. All five of you are winners, and the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Send your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

Starting point is 00:02:54 The best time of the day to eat a high protein meal is breakfast time. In the morning, high protein breakfast helps regulate insulin and blood sugar throughout the day, helps control your appetite throughout the day. It is great for muscle recovery. It also helps you hit your protein targets because when you get behind the aipal, as the day goes on, it's really hard to hit those targets, especially if you need to eat a high protein diet.

Starting point is 00:03:19 Is there a generic tip that you came up with or is there actually research that support that it's? Yeah, I know, lots of research. So, um, lots of studies showing that if you start the day with protein, the ups and downs you get blood sugar, regardless of what you eat. So, if you eat high sugar later, whatever, the ups and downs are more, are blunted in comparison to how they would be, had you started the day with a high sugar, high carbohydrate meal or no meal whatsoever. So what it does is it helps regulate blood sugar throughout the day regardless of what you eat.

Starting point is 00:03:52 Now why is that important? Because blood sugar highs and lows definitely contribute to behaviors that can, like for example, energy levels for sure. Energy levels, irritability, cravings and hunger. So when you control those, you're in a better place to make better food choices. So that's one of the main reasons.

Starting point is 00:04:12 And then of course protein. Yeah, not to mention it's hard to get protein at the end of the day, like if you're behind, to get it in early, you have a lot better chance of hitting your targets. Yeah, and it's also, I mean, it really produces great satiety. You know, I've been working with my cousin, and he's been having me do like his macros and stuff. And I told you

Starting point is 00:04:32 guys about this, right? I'm having him track a couple things. And all I did was tell him try to hit 200 grams approaching a day. He's, he's a big dude, about 215. And now the two weeks is up. I had him do this for two weeks. We tracked his body weight this whole time. He got leaner when he built muscle. And he didn't do anything else. He wasn't trying to eat less.

Starting point is 00:04:50 He wasn't trying to do anything else. All he was doing was trying to hit 200 grams. And he told me, goes, it's really hard to hit 200 grams a day. And it makes me feel like not hungry. And I said, that's the whole point. But he has to start his day with like 50 grams of 22. 40, 50 grams at least. Otherwise, he screwed. Yeah, I mean, to's the whole point. But he has to start his day with like 50 grams of food.

Starting point is 00:05:05 40, 50 grams at least. Otherwise you screw. Yeah, I mean, to me, when I think of back on like all the, the, the little hacks that were like somewhat basic that, um, I implemented into my life that made a big impact on whatever my fitness goals were. I for sure the, the dinner one that I I talk about where I say, you know, plan your dinner that most people do that's kind of centered around for the most part, like

Starting point is 00:05:30 a meat, right? Like a meat heavy type of dinner and just keep, you know, a good portion of that for a breakfast and just add eggs, eggs and cheese to it. And protein scramble. Yeah, you got this protein scramble in the morning that's 40, 50 grams of protein, and it sets the tone for the day. Aside from the benefits of what it does

Starting point is 00:05:51 for behaviors around cravings, which to me is just like a side benefit. My main reason for implementing that had nothing to do with that. I was like, man, I struggled like he did to hit 200 and something grams of protein every day if I did not actively go after 40 to 50 grams right out the gates, otherwise I found myself at noon, one, two o'clock going,

Starting point is 00:06:11 oh shit, I've had 10 grams of protein and I got to, I got 190 more in the next, you know, five to eight hours, like that's tough to do, right? Especially if you're eating, you know, relatively healthy and clean, it's really tough. One of the big challenges with breakfast is that breakfast tends to be the meal that's the most rushed, right? So if you think of lunch,

Starting point is 00:06:34 we tend to have a lunch break. If dinner, we're home, we could take our time. Breakfast, it's like, get up, I got a little bit of time, gotta go to work, gotta take the kids to school. So the problem, the challenge with a high protein breakfast is that protein, you have to cook it. It's not like in a box of cereal or whatever for the most part.

Starting point is 00:06:54 Yeah, but we have a situation, okay. We have like the creatures of habit, like they're- I was just gonna say. Their oatmeal's got 30 something grams. I actually think that the challenge is more just around the marketing. We've marketed to people at breakfast is this, you know, cereal, waffle, pancake, carb loaded meal. Yeah, and even like the most

Starting point is 00:07:12 breakfast food is like, that is got some source of good protein or it would be good choice to be eggs. And you know, I mean, eggs it takes to get 40, 50 grams. Yeah, I ate eggs every day to hit. Yeah. and that's just not, most people don't do that, right? You're a bit of an anomaly, especially if you carve out the bodybuilding community. Outside of that, I don't know anyway, like there's no average American,

Starting point is 00:07:35 I'm like, hey, what do you have? Breakfast is like, oh, 12 eggs. Nobody says that. So if most people are eating regular oatmeal, or they're eating cereal, or they're having pancakes, or they're having waffles. All these are super. And that's why I was gonna say

Starting point is 00:07:48 because yes, you could have a protein shake, but then some people are like, ah, but I want to eat something. I don't just want to have a protein shake. Creatures of habits rate because it's oatmeal with 30 grams of protein. So you literally fiber too. Yeah, fiber, it's got probiotics, vitamin D. So you literally just you know

Starting point is 00:08:06 I like the maple one whatever the maple I don't know I think the flavors just maple work you know add water or almond milk and then there you go and sometimes I'll do two of them I'll do two of them give me 60 grams of protein and good complex carbohydrates that I haven't done I haven't doubled it up. It's one's been enough for me. I mean it's it's one it's it's good. It's pretty dense too It's just one packet of yeah, I know one of them one of them, one of them feels good. I haven't had it. I haven't done two yet. I wonder how two would sit with me if it's easy to digest. Yeah, well, because it's the day he uses the vegan protein in there, right? So I mean, I'm sure that I would digest a lot better than like doubling up of way. Yeah, it's no problem. You know, speaking of

Starting point is 00:08:39 eggs, so I go to the grocery store yesterday. This whole egg shortage thing is pretty unnerving for me. Did you see Justin's meat? Yeah. I just saw it. I was in the restroom. I started laughing. Oh, dude, I saw it. Oh, you did not go there.

Starting point is 00:08:55 You did not go there. I was going there. Oh, my throttle down. Was that a listener that sent it to you? Yes, I love our audience, dude. You know, the coolest, maybe the coolest thing about reaching. It's fun. The size that we have is that we have gathered enough thousands of people that are like minded. And so I don't even have to scour the internet sometimes for such good stuff. They just open my DMs. Back back when I used to be on Instagram. Such a privilege.

Starting point is 00:09:22 People asked me where I used to get my memes. I didn't have to find my name. No, I know. You had like four or five dudes that were like, just, it's cinnamon. By the way, I may be able to get back on Instagram. We don't know what's gonna happen, but I might be able to get back on. I don't believe me.

Starting point is 00:09:36 I don't believe me. And if that happens, oh, what do you guys think? If I get back on, because I'm not gonna start a new account, but let's say they let me back on, uh, how long do you think it would take for me to get kicked off again? Well, it depends. get back on because I'm not going to start a new count. But let's say they let me back on. How long do you think it would take for me to get kicked off again? Well, it depends. Are you going to get harder? Are you going to go out of the game? Are you going to Twitter it? I mean, the way you did your, your team, I mean, I imagine it won't be long before they get rid of

Starting point is 00:09:57 you again. So if you go that route, you know, the thing that I think is most interesting to me You know, the thing that I think is most interesting to me about that whole situation is actually the how insignificant it is. I mean, kudos to the business model that we built because obviously nine, 10 years ago, even before Mind Pump existed, I turned on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook with the intent of building a business around it. And of course, if I'm building a business around it, I would think that it would require that monster to keep going to... I had like a hundred something thousand followers and it was pretty active.

Starting point is 00:10:36 Yeah, I know. For sure. They booted me and it really didn't touch the business. Yeah. And I think if you own a business that you need you should set it up that way to where one leg of the business doesn't, especially in social media because they control it, right? You don't own your content on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter or whatever they do. And that's a dangerous position.

Starting point is 00:10:55 Yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest mistakes I see young entrepreneurs make right now is, and it's tough because I get it, right? So one of the advices I give around building a social media brand is to find which media works best for you or do you say short and witty things, go to Twitter. If you like imagery and stuff like that, go to Instagram. If you like long form podcasts, I mean long form written stuff, do Facebook or do blogs.

Starting point is 00:11:21 Of course, up stack, a lot of people do stuff like this. Yeah, or you like talking for a long period of time, do podcasts or YouTube. And so what ends up happening is people move into one of those that have success and then they kind of just neglect the other ones and not realize the value. I remember hearing Gary Vee years ago and I just think it's, he's looked at social media as acquiring real estate in that you want to have some sort of real, does it mean that you can't have a bulk of your investing in one state

Starting point is 00:11:51 or in one type of product, like say, you know, duplexes, you have mostly there, but to diversify amongst all of them, in case, we have like what happened to you, where like, you know, your Instagram also gets shut down. Imagine if the entire business was attached to your Instagram. Good, I had a buddy who was doing Facebook ads for his company and he went from making,

Starting point is 00:12:13 here's just another example, you didn't have to get kicked off. He was making $700,000 a year in revenue from his Facebook account with ads. They changed the algorithm. He went from making 700 to 70 overnight. Over night, yeah. Over night.

Starting point is 00:12:30 I've heard a lot of those cases, that's frightening. It's just putting too much, giving too much of your power away to someone else. Back, back to the eggs. They played by their rules. Back to the eggs, I want to bring this up. So because here's what's happening, I don't know if it's happening everywhere,

Starting point is 00:12:42 but it's happening around here. I go to the grocery store, I walk in, there's eggs, and there's a sign that says only two items per customer. So they're rationing eggs. So that people don't, now me, eight every morning? Yeah, so I'm gonna have to go every day. I was gonna say, like, what does that look like?

Starting point is 00:12:59 So when do people start shaming you? I eat them all the way. I'm gonna start shaming you. Yeah, then somebody the way. I don't know if it starts to start shaming you. Yeah. And then somebody else is starving of eggs. I would, yeah, right. Yeah, I would try shaming me for eating eggs. So the egg hoarder.

Starting point is 00:13:12 And show me your grocery cart. No, but here's what's dumb about this, okay? They're doing, I know why they're doing this, because they are trying to limit the amount of how the price fluctuates and how expensive they're gonna get. Yeah. This is why that's dumb. In their short term, they think they're helping people. But in reality how expensive they're going to get. Yeah. This is why that's dumb.

Starting point is 00:13:25 In their short term, they think they're helping people. But in reality, what they're doing is they're not allowing the pricing signals to accurately reflect the supply and demand. Now, why is that important? Because if we let the egg prices reflect the true supply and people buy them and then they run out and then the prices go up even more and then people buy them and they run out of the price

Starting point is 00:13:44 to go up even more, And then people buy them and they run out and the prices go up even more. That sends a very powerful signal to suppliers to make more and produce more eggs and more suppliers will enter into the market. So if we let the prices accurately reflect what's going on, we'll get the supply up faster than if we ration them. This is just, you know, how okay.

Starting point is 00:14:02 So when I walk in I see them like, oh it's just so dumb. People can't see beyond just the price point. Yeah. Yeah. I know. So that's correct. I want to piss off. So I do something with the free market, right? That shakes up the free market. Especially when that takes. Yeah. Yeah. Now you get into my space. It makes me so easier. Dude, I got it. Did you? Oh, you guys didn't even see this. So I'm surprised you guys didn't see the shooting tag. Anybody anybody But which is probably why so in our forum one of our forum members very fit young lady Followed map symmetry and she did Dexascans

Starting point is 00:14:38 Before and then two months later. So 60 days, okay This is all map symmetry. So she followed map symmetry. Nothing else really changed. Diet was the same. Everything was pretty good. She gained three pounds of muscle, lost eight pounds of body fat, which is great.

Starting point is 00:14:53 But here's the real cool thing. You guys have done Dexas scans before? Have you? Yes, yes. I don't know if I have. So Dexas scans will show, you know, like lean body mass on one side versus the other side. So to give you an example, her left leg had 18.7 pounds of lean body mass.

Starting point is 00:15:13 Her right leg had 19.2 pounds of lean body mass. After map symmetry, the left leg 19.1 pounds of lean body mass, the right leg 19.2, almost became completely balanced. Same thing happened to her arm. That's sick. Where the arms went from the left being smaller than the right after map symmetry, right and left were identical.

Starting point is 00:15:34 So literally balanced out her right and left as evidence by- Did you see that to Doug? I was wondering if it was like the perfect example. Did you see it, Doug? Yeah, I don't. Her name is Amber Horton and she's in our private form. And she posted it. What a cool way to, yeah, assess see it. Did you see a dog? Yeah, I don't. Her name is Amber Horton and she's in our private For me, she posted what a cool way to yeah, assess that I do I encourage people if you have if you have access because the Dexas

Starting point is 00:15:52 Can's the only thing that'll show oh you pulled it up there Doug What what does the right the right the left arm? I kind of cut it off did it show there? That's that's Andrew now Andrew sorry six pounds of lean body mass on the left arm, 6.3 on the right arm, after map symmetry, 6.3, 6.3. So everything literally balanced out. That's cool. You know what's cool? 18.7, 19.2, then 9.1, 19.1, 19.2.

Starting point is 00:16:17 Now, how big of a difference you think will this will make on things like barbell squats, dead lifts, bench press, bench press. Of course, right? Of course. Yeah, you're much more balanced. Your outputs gonna be louder because it's like, you're getting it from both sides equally. Now here's something else about this that's dawned on me when I saw this. She's obviously very fit.

Starting point is 00:16:36 She's not a beginner. She doesn't look like that because she didn't have symmetry. She already really fit. You'll see if you watch this on YouTube, we'll post for a picture. But here's what's interesting. After a certain point when you've been working out for a while, it's really hard to build muscle. This is in a phenomenal way to basically introduce novelty

Starting point is 00:16:56 and bring up a weak body part and then just add muscle to your body. Had she not followed MAP symmetry, she would not have built as much muscle because her body was already so accustomed to doing things bilaterally. So I'm saying, yeah, so because she did the unilateral training and the way we designed map symmetry is really bringing balance between the right and left. Because she did that and it was so novel, not only did she balance right and left out, she also built more muscle had she not done that at all, had she followed some other program, even one of our other programs.

Starting point is 00:17:22 Right. She would have kept prioritizing the same way she'd lived, which one would build up the stronger side. That's right. And necessarily get that kind of game. Isn't that awesome? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if anybody's following map symmetry, try that. We'll get a Dexasan before and after and see how balanced out it makes the right and left.

Starting point is 00:17:37 And then of course, aesthetically speaking, when things are more balanced, we all know that symmetry. Well, we don't all know, but science shows that symmetry is a very strong predictor of what people would consider beauty, right, or aesthetics. So it really balances out the body remarkably. Isn't that cool? That's really cool. I thought that was pretty rad.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Dude, did you guys see? So, okay, I'm not sure if you are familiar with this one guy who got like a viral video out there. He was a homeless guy His name was Kai He's famous for I guess like the homeless guy. Yeah, he had Kyle homeless guy. He was he had this interview and Was I guess his his famous catch phrase was like smash smash smash and he was on like Jimmy Kimmel show and all the stuff. Because he saved some lady that was, I guess, getting like, abuse or something from the

Starting point is 00:18:35 sky. The story is crazy. It goes back to like show you like how, as media picks up on these kind of like viral sensation people, like they don't do a lot of good investigation and homework on actual character of the person first. And so it unfolds later and you start to find out like what an absolute creep this guy was. Oh really? Yeah, and like how, so everybody was like,

Starting point is 00:19:01 Kai's great. Yeah, originally he was like in a van with this guy who I guess, so the narrative was like, Kai's great. Yeah, originally he was like in a van with this guy, who I guess, so the narrative was like, he, this guy in this van, this hit, some of the guys, this black guy, and then it kind of made it like a racial thing. Like he was like targeting like this, this black guy and trying to,

Starting point is 00:19:20 to hurt him with the van and then gets out. And then this lady comes over to help, seeing things that's just an accident. And then the guy gets out and starts attacking the lady that's trying to help. And then Kai, the homeless guy that's in the car, gets out and then like he has a hatchet on him. And so then he hits the blunt side of the hatchet

Starting point is 00:19:42 on top of the guy's head like twice and then turns and hits it with the blunt side of the hatchet on top of the guy's head like twice and then turns and hits it with the other side, which then leaves like a gouge in the guy's head. Anyway, the guy goes to the hospital, all the stuff, the media picks it up is like this heroic story, right? Like Kyle, like Satan's lady. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. That was the good thing.

Starting point is 00:19:59 I mean, he defended her, but holy shit, he used that tactic. Exactly, exactly. Right? So it's a little bit of a red flag, like you guys. A little violent, you know, like he's got a little bit of violent tendencies here. He's just a sweat donor because, yeah, of whatever they just wanted to create and run with.

Starting point is 00:20:17 Doug, can you be pulling up some articles from here or something like this? Why he's talking about this? I haven't. Yeah, so it's really a fascinating human psychology kind of like documentary It goes through this whole thing of like How he just was this crazy rambunctious kid who would like so you get one story from one person that was like his mom was Abusive by locking him in his room and and then her story is that he was so unpredictable and crazy that she had to lock him in the room,

Starting point is 00:20:45 otherwise he was gonna hurt himself and other people. And so it's like, he's a convicted murderer. Yeah. Oh, and he's a hitchhiker, not a bomb. He's not homeless. He's a hitchhiker. Well, whatever, that was like the title of like, it was kind of the homeless guy, but yeah, he's a hitchhiker.

Starting point is 00:21:01 Wow. Okay, so it still makes sense. So he's probably, he's a nomadic. But he's a nomadic, yeah, he's not like, he's right, right, right. Where was this out of, Justin? LA, I believe. And was this is like a Netflix documentary on it? Yeah. Yeah, so the Netflix documentary gets

Starting point is 00:21:16 in all the details and everything. But I just, I thought it was crazy because it's like, he's this viral sensation. And then like, and everybody was gonna pay him so much money to be like interviewed and all the stuff and half the story is just all these like networks trying to get him and he wouldn't like agree to it and then finally one person can find him because he's like this nomadic hitchhiker guy that like nobody could find and so this guy like that was his like like had some connection to like a Jimmy Kimmel show finally get some and get some on the show. And then later on like his

Starting point is 00:21:53 rise the fame just like I'm always super skeptical of of so I think it's so interesting how we you know glorify the famous actors and actresses and you're quick to jump on because it makes a good story. It's like, oh my god. Or even like when people ask me questions about like, you know, what athletes do admire? Or what, you know, it's like, I just, I don't admire athletes. I mean, I respect and think it's amazing what they do. I don't buy any means for their athletic skills. Yeah, I don't take anything from what they do on the court, I think it's, you know, like Michael Jordan, is that's why I get my,

Starting point is 00:22:29 how to be a better father? Yeah. Like, I don't admire him, right? Like, I respect his game and I'm like, wow, that's crazy, that's so sick. Like, that's cool. But I don't, because of that, what he is disciplined to become great at a sport or great at acting or

Starting point is 00:22:46 fill in the blank, I don't also translate into like I should admire this person, you know, or I should emulate. And also, who they are as a person because they have this one characteristic. Yeah, and it doesn't mean they're great at anything else. Right. So I mean, they have one great, it is great characteristic that made them like stand out from everybody else, but they could be terrible at all these other things. So, you know how, how weird is it that a few, like a, I don't know, I don't know, six decades ago or so, it was not uncommon

Starting point is 00:23:18 for people to hitch rides. I know. Like, if people used to hitchhike all the time. Oh yeah, all the time. You know, why don's funny about that too, is like, we didn't have like that immediate information access, either like I guarantee it was way more dangerous than they, way more, they presented it back even in the 70s, right?

Starting point is 00:23:35 That's like the start of all the serial killers. It was so accepted. This is real now. This is a toy that was so dangerous. They created a toy in the 60s. I don't remember the name of it, maybe Doug could find it, but literally a kid would fill out a form

Starting point is 00:23:49 with their name and their address and whatever, and they'd leave it somewhere, and people would, the toy essentially was that it hitchhiked all the way back to you. So you'd travel somewhere, drop it off, and then people would pick it up and, oh, I'm going in that direction and they'd pass it along, and then maybe you'd come and get it, and be like, oh, it came back to people will pick it up and, oh, I'm going in that direction and they pass it along and then maybe you come and get it and be like,

Starting point is 00:24:05 oh, it came back to me. And then parents realized, this is my kid's name in address. That was a real thing. Yes. Looked that up. What is that? I didn't even know that was real thing. The kid's hitchhiking.

Starting point is 00:24:16 I mean, I think I've told you guys before in high school, it was, it was, Is Tommy here? I got your, Hey Tommy. Yeah. When we were in high school, A common prank we used to do is because it was that common that we there was always a hitchhiker in town always like all through

Starting point is 00:24:34 high school you every day you saw at least one. That's how common it was. Yeah, I don't know that's because where I grew up Oakdale was this like commuter town where like it's the last Main stop before they never really saw much before you go to you Semidee or if you could be going the other direction before you go to Bay Area It's like this first one. So I think a lot of people would hitchhike from there So in high school, it was just like a common prank that you you see one and then you you pull over like 50 yards up And you know, hey come on and you get him to run and then you take off for six months. This is a day.

Starting point is 00:25:07 Wow. You sit too out all the time. This is like a stupid high school kid thing, you know what I'm saying? Of course. Of course. It's hilarious to get him to run it with their bags and shit falling. So that, come on. Hurry up, come on.

Starting point is 00:25:18 Yeah. Yeah. That's so mean. I mean, it's not if they were a serial killer, right? If you have a different view on it, there's a good chance that one of them was a serial killer. I know we statistically speaking. I did it that much that we for sure sped off on at least one serial killer.

Starting point is 00:25:32 I'm trying to find it because I'm trying to find the name of the toy I'm helping you look here does. So either so you're in this situation, right? So either the hitchhiker because usually they're armed, right? So this guy had an axe had a hatchet on him, right? Or you're the driver that has like a gun or like whatever in there. And it's like, what are the motivations of both parties? You know, they're coming into that situation. It's just like it's all bad. Oh, that's it. But you know, what else, what other toy was totally changed?

Starting point is 00:26:02 You guys ever tried a buy a slinky? It's not at all the same what like the latest ones. There's their metal They don't make the real heavy metal like amazing ones that we had Yeah, but is there any other logic other than his cheap? No, it's because the metal was people kids would wrap around each other's Is that why yeah, no, you can't buy I know I'm not disagreeing you can't buy it, but I would think it's because it's expensive. I think the metal was sharp and kids were hurting each other Because really pretty sure No, I'm still trying to find his hichiger thing. It's it. Yeah, he's made up two things today in the September already. It's real things. It's real. I bet Andrew find it. It's an old toy. I want to say from the 60s or 70s I did not have a cancel. I've never heard that. Yeah. No, no. So the original slinkies are like heavy metal.

Starting point is 00:26:49 And I know I know, but actually, yeah, because you watch them go the stairs and they so I would imagine the plastic one won't even. They don't I've actually tried to use the plot. They suck. They totally. So yeah, it's like, what's the point? They still make metal. See? Yeah. We'll go find one of the somewhere I couldn't find it. It my target it's because it's Amazon because I went I went to why they look at plastic is that that much metal compared to that much plastic is nothing now it's like since something I was like oh this will be fun and I'm like look at this is not going to be fun this is stupid did you find his yes gamers are the second thing he made up no yeah I found this link easy now it's like science tools or whatever.

Starting point is 00:27:25 Oh, the original. We got to buy the original. It's too old to. Okay, so give it a try. You're not gonna let him lie to us in a podcast. Are you fine at finding it? I'm not lying to the other one. It's so well.

Starting point is 00:27:35 Keep looking. I couldn't find it. Two lies in one podcast. You might have to go to the dark west. That one. I couldn't find it. Anyway, speaking of homeless people, did you guys see that viral clip?

Starting point is 00:27:46 That viral clip, that store owner in San Francisco? Oh, I was gonna bring that up. Okay, so that was on my notes. Yeah, oh, so they talked about that on the All-In-Pockets. Yeah, that's why it was on my notes. Can you hear about this? No, no, tell me. This is art gallery owner, a small business,

Starting point is 00:28:01 and just, you know, how San Francisco is lately, it's just the homeless people camp out anywhere, and the police can't do anything about it, and they just can't take drugs. So, as person's business is just tanking, which, first of all, owning a business storefront in San Francisco anyway, is like, you're probably going to fail. It's hard. But now, on top of it, they have, she's got this business owner has homeless people camped

Starting point is 00:28:24 out in front, can do anything of it, she's got this business owner has homeless people camped out in front, can do anything about it, can't get everyone. So the viral video is then coming out with a water hose and spraying. Oh, I saw it, the guys go. The guys go. The guys on all end. I mean, Sal obviously presented it to support our argument

Starting point is 00:28:38 for sure the way he presented it. It was presented different on the other. The way it was presented on the all-in pod. I mean, Jason Galkanis presented it, who's a bit of the, you know, the, the woke one of the four of them. And he presented it as like, never is it okay to like spray a homeless person.

Starting point is 00:28:55 I can't believe he did that. And then the other guys think, they had a nice little debate in conversation about it. Like, if they threw a poo on you. Well, that's, I mean, that's, the other guys were like, well, you know, what we don't know is what, how did it escalate to that? I mean, do you think the store owner just walked out

Starting point is 00:29:09 and saw a homeless guy on the curb and then just started blasting him? Or had there been a series of altercations and conversations and please leave my store and, hey, I'll shit on, I'll shit on the front of your door if I want. Like, you don't know what was said and who's in the right or wrong in that situation. Yeah, I don't know if I go out and like, I don't know what was said and who's in the right or wrong in that situation. Yeah, I don't know if I'd go out and like,

Starting point is 00:29:26 I don't know how I'd react if I had a small business with someone like that. I think that's mean or whatever. I don't think that's cool either. Oh, I know for sure I would do that if that person escalated it in other ways too. Because you're not gonna do that person. What you're not gonna do is beat him up, right?

Starting point is 00:29:38 So like if, literally, if he shit won't move, if he shit in front of like as a FU, like if I said, please move away from my store, like people are afraid to come in because you're camping on the floor in front of my store and he didn't and then I asked again and he goes, all shit in front of your door then he shits in front of my door.

Starting point is 00:29:57 I would absolutely spray that with the hopes. Yeah, that's a likely scenario. I mean, unfortunately, I guess it'd be very like, I'm gonna help and do whatever I can. And when you live in it, it gives you a completely different perspective. Well, you think about your family, you think about your own business,

Starting point is 00:30:12 and then you, and you're also, it's also frustrating because what they need is mental health services. That's what they need. And they need help with drug abuse. Well, there's the vast majority of them. That's the compassion of less of like, down and out and more of a mental illness. 100 majority of them. That's the compassion of a lot of us of like down and out and more of a mental illness.

Starting point is 00:30:26 100%. That's the compassionate argument there. Cause right, because even even the statement I said, I would absolutely spray them if they did X, Y and Z. I mean, does that story change? If they're like crazy, if they're crazy, right? They're mentally ill and I do that. Like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:30:40 I think when you're in that situation, you, if I, if I were to escalate it to that point, I probably, I probably tried other ways first, you know, to get the person to do it. And then they have escalated to a point where I can't take it to that level because I'll be a really bad person if I get physical. Yeah, touchy, touchy, such a, for people

Starting point is 00:31:02 that are on the outside, especially. Because like, too, I've seen businesses decimated downtown Santa Cruz because people would literally vandalize every single day Every single day. Yeah, and like go through the trash and then like like put their shit and smear it on their windows And like just like abhorrent stuff. This is a it's a mental health and drug abuse crisis that's being politicized as a housing shortage. No. And a job health shortage. It's not shortage of jobs.

Starting point is 00:31:34 It's not that there's a shortage of housing. It's that there's lots of mental illness. And then the, and especially in San Francisco, the ease of access to some of these drugs. In fact, they will give you drugs. They will, they will put you in an area and they'll give you a supply of drugs and money. Madness.

Starting point is 00:31:53 And so you'll actually, there's actually people in the interview and they'll take them down on social media. But the interviews, if you see them before they get taken down are these homeless people like, oh yeah, like why would I leave? They get free drugs, I get, drugs, I get money to buy food. There's no stipulates. They're not saying, hey, you can't do drugs here

Starting point is 00:32:08 if we feed you or whatever. So there's an issue there. And I think they need to be put in mental health services. I wouldn't mind paying for that at all, because that would help the issue. Otherwise, we're stuck with this. Like, what do you do? I can't ever say I agree.

Starting point is 00:32:24 That's the only solution I see. And it's just really that everything I've seen because that would help the issue. Otherwise, we're stuck with this. Like, what do you do? 5% agree. Yeah. That's the only solution I see. And it's just really, everything I've seen personally and like everybody lives within the proximity of it, it's like, it's just, it's not. There's not a lot of them looking for aid and help to get on their feet or anything, which is what you would hope.

Starting point is 00:32:41 You're not in the right state of mind. So to ask them if you're in that play, if you've ever dealt with somebody like a friend or family member, that's really addicted to substances or is just not all there. They don't want help or they don't even know that they need help or they think you're crazy.

Starting point is 00:32:59 So it's like, what do you do? What do you do at that point, right? So, yeah, really, really tough situation. Anyway, I was reading this article on at-home workouts and the pandemic, which now we've obviously been out of it for a little while, but during that period of time, a lot of people obviously started working out at home. They recently did another survey of these people.

Starting point is 00:33:24 The majority of them, 60 something percent, say I'm gonna continue just to work out at home, they recently did another survey of these people. The majority of them, 60 something percent say, I'm going to continue just to work out at home and not go back to the gyms. I mean, it happened to me. Remember, if you remember, oh, you were against it. I was. Yeah, I was. Totally. You know what it did? It just conditioned me and I said, uh, at this point, and I still stand by the original things that I said about why I like going to the gym. The truth is, it forced me to figure out what it was like to not have that. And so, I've learned to focus on the aspects I like about, have just working out at home. Convenience.

Starting point is 00:33:58 Yeah. And so, now I'm like, you know, like where I'm at in my life right now, if I was like competing for a show, okay, it would be a different story. I would need that external motivation and the hype of someone else training near me and I don't give a shit, or I'd want the diversity of all the different machines

Starting point is 00:34:15 of like that with my PRX setup. I got everything that I need to keep a healthy, strong, fit physique. And so it's like, and ever since, especially since we've done maps 15 and stuff like that, I've really kind of adopted this. I'm in a really different place, lifting wise in my life than I've ever been. It's been solely motivated off of how I look for most of my life.

Starting point is 00:34:40 And I really say, fatherhood has really shifted that more than anything, although I was already after bodybuilding, I really wanted to get away from that because I got really tired of being like, pigeonholed into being the bodybuilder guy. So there was a part of me that like revolved it. You got sick of being objectified for your bodybuilder? Yes, it's not as me. I did not get, I didn't like being so sexy.

Starting point is 00:35:01 I didn't know, not that at all. That part I liked. I did not like it. I did not get, I didn't like being so sexy. I didn't know, not that at all. That part I liked. I did not get, I did not like being labeled though as like the bodybuilder guy, because it's just not who I was. And so I think it started there than the pandemic, fatherhood, all kind of pushed me into this different direction.

Starting point is 00:35:17 And now, you know, my training truly is to compliment my life versus like this thing that I was doing for such a long time to obtain a look. Now you knew logically that the tons of variety at the gym, all the different machines, all that stuff. You knew logically, because we would talk about this that, it really wouldn't make a difference in terms of what kind of results you can get on stuff. But now that you're doing it and you're working out, because what do you have?

Starting point is 00:35:43 You have a PRX rack, barbell, barbell weights dumbbells adjustable bench, right? Cook easy crowbar and stuff like that basic home gym stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now that you have that and you're going through it Like did it is anything surprising you about how like you don't need tons of things or whatever? Well, you know because you knew what I read well You know what it what is what is interesting? And so I think the biggest thing that I noticed is this. Okay, so let's say I went to the gym and it was an unmotivated day. And I think you can relate to this

Starting point is 00:36:10 because I think we've talked about this before. Unmotivated or just not feeling great. And so that might be a day where I spend 50 minutes of like machine stuff. Oh, I see. Getting a little pump and so that call and work out. That obviously doesn't happen now. So if I have an unmotivated day, I'll actually probably train less time, but I'll do one or two very effective

Starting point is 00:36:29 movements. I will deadlift or I will stay on. The efficiency is much higher. Yeah. So it's actually kind of interesting the like what happens now. Like the if I drove to the gym and I did not want to be there and I got there, I stay there still for an hour. But then the way I mosey around the gym, the exercises that I choose, or you know, cable stuff, packed at. Just sit on the machine. Yeah, yeah, just kind of, but get a little pump and then feel like, okay, I did the work today. I didn't, I didn't not, not go. We're now, I won't stay in my garage gym for an hour just this, just this, just because I went there. I'll be like, I am not, I don't feel like it today, but you know what?

Starting point is 00:37:06 I can do three sets of squats. Yeah. And I'll, then I'll make this commitment that I'm only going to do that. And then I'll go do that many times that leads to another exercise or two or like more of a routine like maps to 15 looks like. And I end up doing that. And I find that I'm, I'm getting probably better benefits because of the extra exercise selection, which nothing I could have, I don't think I could have foreseen that until I just kind of went

Starting point is 00:37:32 through it and then being totally honest with myself and removing it and going like, okay, what are the pros and cons of this, you know, having just this PRX situation at home and not getting the gym, like I know that I admittedly like and think is superior. I've found that there's benefits that I didn't think I was going to see from having the... I've noticed the same. It's very much more of an efficiency thing, like in that environment because it's like,

Starting point is 00:38:01 if you're in the actual like commercial gym, it's nice to kind of just drift around and try all the different types of machines or do things you wouldn't typically do. But for me, and my home gym, it's like, okay, I'm here, usually it's like a five by five or like, I'm just doing the compound lifts and I'm out. It's like, I'm not like, no fluff, my workout time is gone gone almost in half. It's like 30 minutes or it's the 15 minute protocol

Starting point is 00:38:29 Have you guys you guys haven't tried the all day workout yet, right? Where were you? I've done so I haven't done exactly like a protocol like you have But already a few times Katrina and I have done these like three three to four ten minute bouts Isn't a wild. Yeah, no, I mean, I love it. That's why I mean, my way of training is really, it's very unstructured in the sense that I'm not like following this protocol of this is what exercise I do on these days and rest periods and this that.

Starting point is 00:38:56 It's like, I have more of this attitude of, I understand very much so the value of all these movements. And sometimes I only commit to going in and doing that one movement. And what that leads to many times, either me staying in there longer and doing more or I felt so good, the rest of my days energized, I find another 10 minute break, I come back in,

Starting point is 00:39:16 do another movement, and then go back to my day and do my thing, come back, do another movement. I mean, people need to try this. If you have a home jam, this is hard to do with a jam, jam, but if you have a home jam, this is hard to do with a gym, but if you have a home gym, what I would do is every other hour, I would do like three sets of two exercises, and they were big gross motor movement,

Starting point is 00:39:33 so like squats and bench press. And I would do that every other hour, starting at 9 a.m., and I would stop somewhere around 4 or 5 p.m. And I'd feed myself in between, make sure I had protein carbs all deal. The intensity was moderate, so I wasn't hammering myself. The total volume that I would add up of squats and bench press, for example, in that scenario,

Starting point is 00:39:53 was so much higher than I would ever do during a regular workout because it was so spread out. I didn't feel nearly the fatigue that I should have and some weird things would happen. I would get stronger halfway through, which is weird. After three or four of them, I was like, I all of a sudden got hell of stronger. And then the day's afterwards, I felt like, it's that feeling you get when you do like a new

Starting point is 00:40:14 super effective routine where you could tell, oh, I think I built something where I, it's really wild. I, if you have all day, you have a home gym, you gotta try it out. Really crazy. Do you think there's a little bit of a of a biased for us because we have so many years of experience in lifting that, you know, that's, and maybe if I was like a 20 year old with only a couple, maybe a year, let's say under my belt of lifting, and I was following a similar protocol that I kind

Starting point is 00:40:43 of do right now, which is like I said this, you know, in to do an exercise out. And do you think that because I've spent so much time under the iron, I've built so much muscle over the years that that's all it takes is a couple big gross motor movements and it kind of wakes up my entire CNS and my all my muscles. And it's like, oh, we remember this. And then it comes back on fast. I mean, that would be true with any routine. But, I'll make this argument.

Starting point is 00:41:09 But I mean, that's, I'm saying that because of that, I see even more value from that. And maybe when I'm 20, I'd be like, this isn't doing anything. You know what, I'll make this argument. Imagine all of us were training a kind of a relatively new 20 year old kid, maybe some athletic background, but

Starting point is 00:41:25 no strength training. Now imagine doing an hour workout with them versus 320 minute workout spread out morning afternoon and evening, same volume, same everything. Do you think you would be able to get more out of the 320 minute workouts or out of the 160 minute workout? Yeah, the 320. Yeah, so that's how I feel too. I feel like fatigue, because fatigue is a strength

Starting point is 00:41:48 in muscle building killer. This is why you rest between sets. That's why you, so I feel like you probably would get better results. The performance would be way better. The only reason why nobody works out that way is it's extremely inconvenient. Nobody wants to work out three or four times.

Starting point is 00:42:02 That's why I say take a day, you have a home gym, and then experiment. Take the day off and be like, day, you have a home gym, and then experiment. Take the day off and be like, I'm gonna do this all day, and in between I'll eat and watch TV, that's what I would do. And I did it a few times with Jessica, and it was crazy. You know, speed of that, you see the,

Starting point is 00:42:14 I don't know who shared it, I saw it on social media, it's making its rounds right now. And of course, this is how this stupid game works. In the last, I would say year or two. I mean, we were talking about cold immersion and cryo therapy when we first started this thing eight years ago, but it seems like it's become very popular

Starting point is 00:42:38 in the last year to two years. And so like everybody's ice-bathing now, right? Like everybody is in the fitness space. And then the only people that are not are the people that are taking the counter stance on it. And so there's now that wave of people that are trying to take a stance against it in either one, minimize the value of it,

Starting point is 00:42:59 or two, even trying to take a stance on how it's impeding on recovery and stuff. So have you seen the... Yeah, like there was this one, Justin shared with me where they were trying to take a stance on how it's impeding on recovery and stuff. Have you seen the one? Yeah, like there was this one, Justin shared with me where they were trying to say, they were comparing active recovery to cold water immersion, which I think is an unfair comparison. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:17 Nothing is going to substitute, or nothing that we know of will substitute, things like active recovery. Or like strength training. For example, occlusion training or BFR, blood flow, restrictive training. It builds muscle really lightweight. Will it replace traditional strength training? No.

Starting point is 00:43:35 I think it's an interesting thing you can add to your current training. So I think cold water therapy, I don't use it for recovery. No. I don't think that's a good way to use it. Unless you're an athlete that's at the limit and you're doing double days, or you have to play games. Double days, exactly, right?

Starting point is 00:43:49 Exactly, you're going to play in the morning, play again in the afternoon, and you gotta be able to perform again. That's different, but for most people, cold water therapy, forget the recovery benefits. It's for immune boosting. It's to help regulate your central nervous system. It's for the energy boost.

Starting point is 00:44:03 You're using it wrong, in my opinion, if you're doing it for the recovery. Oh, yeah, it's reminded me a lot of like fasting and you know, and like how people are just just looking at weight loss. And yeah, it's the total wrong way to really like put a lens on it because there's so many health benefits

Starting point is 00:44:20 to cold water immersion, like for overall health and immunity and you know, just like a lot of other like holistic health benefit other than just like gaining muscle. And so like if you're just like a bro that just wants to build muscle bile means necessary, those are really the ones that will pay attention to a study like that and then be like, oh, well, this is like a complete worthless. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:45 Well, it's such a good analogy to compare it to the fasting thing because I think both those things have become popular for the wrong reasons. Yeah. Like fasting became popular for the weight loss benefits. But if you've listened to us talk about it for a long time. That's not the benefits. It's not the benefits at all. Same thing for the cold immersion.

Starting point is 00:45:00 Cold immersion has become popular for its recovery, you know, and stuff like that. And what athletes have used it in sports for so long, but that's never been the reason why we share and talk about it, and so it's funny that the angles that people will try and take to be counter are the wrong ones in my opinion. It's just like, well, I mean, I guess you can make that argument as far as it hindering recovery,

Starting point is 00:45:22 because by the way, too, I can argue with the other way too. You can argue it both ways, because you can argue that it may dampen the recovery process by doing it right after, but if it also boosts your immunity, makes you feel better, potentially helps you sleep later on that night, adds those benefits.

Starting point is 00:45:39 It's your overall healthier person. Right, so I'll use an analogy. Okay, so NSAIDs, right? Non-sterroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen. Right. That blocks to an extent the inflammatory process. Obviously, they're anti-inflammatories, but it blocks the inflammatory process that leads to muscle growth. In other words, if you work out and then take a bunch of ibuprofen after, you're going to blunt somewhat the muscle building process. So then you got the meat heads

Starting point is 00:46:06 where like never take ibuprofen, whatever. Okay, well, what if you got a really bad headache and you're going to bad and you can't sleep? And you're like, forget it, I'm not taking ibuprofen, so I'm just not gonna sleep. So I don't build muscle. And where do you recover the most sleep? Yeah, so you got to weigh it out.

Starting point is 00:46:20 And so then maybe taking it will help you sleep, which is gonna outweigh the whatever potential, you know, muscle building signal blunting effects of the NSAT, right? Dude. New onces is just too hard, right? I think that's what it is. Yeah, you know what? Uhhh, you can't fit in the caveman. Just to make fun of the bodybuilder. He's the U.S. I'm just like, I get to just cringe. Dude, it's hard for me. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:46:51 Hey, I don't know if I brought this up in a previous podcast. I tell you guys about what I read this article about Neanderthals and Homo sapiens that I bring that up before. No. You just talk about, I don't think so. I don't think so.

Starting point is 00:47:01 Let me hear another thing. I heard you say it, yeah. So, you know how like most humans have some Neanderthal DNA. Yeah. So, they'll test, some regions of the world where they don't find any, but in many parts, especially in Europe, when they'll test our DNA, they'll see that there's some Neanderthal DNA. So, they know that, you know, that are ancestors and Neanderthals they're they're two different. They did the dirty They're different species of

Starting point is 00:47:28 You know Homorectus or whatever right of primates That they at some points made it and then for some reason the Andothals Went extinct and there's a lot of theories as to why the Andothals went extinct first off They thought oh well, we're so much smarter But the reality is there's lots of evidence that they were very complex, they were intelligent, they developed tools.

Starting point is 00:47:49 So they were pretty smart themselves. So they're like, okay, well, like what was it where we better hunters? Well, there's evidence that they were very successful hunters. They were quite strong, actually, sturdier than we were. So there's this new theory that I read. So when a male Neanderthal,

Starting point is 00:48:06 because they look at the DNA, right, if a male Neanderthal mates with a female homosapian, that they can't have a baby, it doesn't work. But if a male homosapian mates with a female Neanderthal, she can get pregnant. So they think what happened was homos sapiens were Taking over their trials. I'll bread them. Yeah

Starting point is 00:48:30 Just taking their chicks and just Breeding yeah, I'll bread them. So basically we just have made a bunch of how do you how do you make peace with like Stacking theories on theories on theories to come to I mean we just talked the other day. I know, as I'm talking, I'm looking at your face. You know, you know what, okay. And let me make this clear to you. I know, Sam. I'm wearing all these same things, also. I mean, I just, we just, we just talk.

Starting point is 00:48:54 That's the way to approach it. It's fun. It's fun to try and take wild fucking gas and say, maybe this, maybe that. But it's like, we just, something to do with the Wychromos. We it's like, we just something to do with the Y chromosome. We just talked about DNA that we share with certain animals and digestive systems that

Starting point is 00:49:11 are completely opposite to other. And it's like, we make these, like, oh, there's a fraction of this DNA that we share with this. Therefore, we probably fucked all of them in like out of competition. And then probably this happened and that happened. It's like, whoa, dude, like, where did we get all of that from because we have a tiny strand of DNA that we share with that. But then we, we totally, it's don't science version of like demons banging and growing back in the day. Seriously, the people, you know, it's fun. This is a part of

Starting point is 00:49:38 people. I mean, I grew up the, the, in a hardcore religious home, right? So I understand the knock on that, right? But this is the knock I have on scientism, is that people adopt these ideas and theories and are so staunch about it, because it's science-based, and it's like, you're no different than the religious fanatic when you talk like that. Well, actually, do you not hear that?

Starting point is 00:50:02 Yeah, no, when people get all like sure about it, oh, that's what happened. But well, we can't do that. I know you're not like to game up with our idea. Flarest to me, because it's not science, because what we're doing is we're speculating, creating narratives for things that we weren't there to actually prove. And on that fact, like, we actually do prove the science,

Starting point is 00:50:21 like, say, it's like, what do you call that kind of science as geological kind of science? Like, so you get's like, what do you call that kind of science as geological kind of science? Like, so you get like Dr. Robert Shock, right, that goes to the Spinks and proves that there was water erosion and it gets like acclaimed by all the rest of the geologic scientists, like, and he gets an award and everything, but Egyptologists, but like historians, they all call him a quack in that like because they don't wanna change the narrative

Starting point is 00:50:49 that they've created. They've already these jobs. Because they've already touched so many layers of theories. And as you, as the human condition, you rub that theory, it's like, oh fuck, that unravels all these other budgets. Well, yeah, you know how long ago Egypt was had water like that?

Starting point is 00:51:03 Way before the Egyptians. So then if that's water I think that's like the the oldest thing the Sphinx. Yeah, I think that's like the oldest thing visibly like Stats that we have yeah, so no, so basically if that's water erosion and it's true Then the Sphinx existed there before the Egyptians. Yes did anything Maybe they found it and that's why they built this civilization. They built their civilization around it. Look at Adam right now. And then probably why they worshipped them as gods.

Starting point is 00:51:31 Yeah, that goes back a little. We'll go back and be happy. It's fucked up everything for them too. Because it's like it just predates everything they had even before that. So it's like, how do you reconcile it? I mean, I think my point of like even challenging or saying or questioning any of that is not that, like I'm not like necessarily argument debating

Starting point is 00:51:49 that that's not potentially true. It's just that, you know, it's so interesting to me. I find it interesting, especially in the science community, obviously I'm in a lot of that, right? So I see and here and it's, and coming from somebody who was from a very religious background, I see so many parallels. And the irony is how staunch each of them are about each other.

Starting point is 00:52:11 And it's just like how much alike you really are. Because it's a reflection of your own behaviors. You don't like your bad behaviors. So to project that on other people. Two things. Have you ever seen the meme that someone made that said, if scientists used bones of common animals and put them together the way that someone made that said, if scientists used bones of common animals and put them together the way that we did with dinosaurs, we think they would look like every single one.

Starting point is 00:52:31 So they take like elephant bones or like a bird. And because we don't know what dinosaurs look like, we guess what they look, could have been covered in feathers and colorful. Oh, hilarious. So you'll see like animals you know of. Yeah. You're like, oh, that's, so that's,

Starting point is 00:52:44 then like recreating what they're going to go. Yeah. So that's hilarious. Okay, so. I, animals you know of. Yeah, like, oh, that's, so that's them like recreating. Yeah. So that's hilarious. Okay. So I've heard of that before. Here's, here's just the backup, kind of what you're saying at them. So obviously our, you know, field of expertise is health and fitness. You, the science space when it comes to nutrition has been off so many times, and yet they were so sure that they were right. It's ridiculous. Now, we now have a food pyramid. Did you guys see this?

Starting point is 00:53:10 Thank you for bringing this up. This is absurd. They are, they created an algorithm where they created a way to rank foods in terms of healthiness, quote unquote, healthiness. And according to the way that they rank foods, fruit loops is healthier than steak, okay, or eggs. So immediately, way healthier.

Starting point is 00:53:28 Throw it out. Okay, so I shared with you guys already, if you haven't looked at it, I haven't read the full article. So I don't have a very strong position, either way on this, but there's a doctor who I don't like, actually. He's annoying.

Starting point is 00:53:44 Yeah, he is very annoying. But he's gonna show. It'll be our shout out for today. Yeah, I just I just I whether he thinks he's helping or not. I mean first of all if you wear a lab coat and a stethoscope on TikTok videos, you automatically should get slapped in my fingers. I don't know. I don't know. I don't do a fuck house more to you are. If you have to wear a lab coat and a stethoscope in your TikTok videos, can we you should get slapped? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:54:09 I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:54:19 I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I'm saying? Like cradle every time I talk on the podcast. Like what are you doing? I don't look nothing. This is just, I conveniently hold this wherever I swear. I'm weird. Yeah, hang out, make me know.

Starting point is 00:54:28 So he, what he, in his defense, probably a tender profile. Yeah, he's got his guess. Yes, yes, yes, yes. For sure it is. For sure it is. Yeah. Now that I've done punking him, let me give him his flowers, I, he did go in there and explain

Starting point is 00:54:41 that it's being this Joe Rogan and everybody is taking it out of context because when you actually go in and read the actual paper, what people are, it's, they took it category by category. So it's not literally steak is technically healthier than the- It's got a better rating. In that category. So in, that's what it, and so there's just saturated fat. Is the category for that is that what they know

Starting point is 00:55:06 They create their their their standards watch the video I sent over to you unless duck and pull up We watch food is food is very complex. However, this is actually quite simple. Okay. I'm gonna say it right here and right now Here's your food pyramid whole natural foods Process foods. that's it. If you avoid processed foods, and you eat pretty much almost all of your food comes from whole natural sources, you will solve 90% of your dietary problems.

Starting point is 00:55:36 That is it right there. Why? You don't overeat, you're gonna eat nutrient-dense type foods, they're gonna produce more satiety. It's just, and it's very simple. That's it, right there. Whole natural foods, process foods.

Starting point is 00:55:48 If you avoid those, you're fine. These food pyramids that they make are so silly, where they put. Well, we know that that will never be a popular because the amount of money that is still in process foods. Yeah. I mean, when you look at people lobbyists and so on, I mean, you gotta think like pharmaceutical number number one and then I would think that process food

Starting point is 00:56:08 It's got to be up there in the top three or five. Just look at your kids cafeteria Yeah, I mean, they're not gonna let and so and I think you brought that point up Justin So let's play the other side that you know, everybody is misinterpreted this article the other day if it can be misinterpreted that easy everybody is misinterpreted this article the other day, if it can be misinterpreted that easy from a bunch. The institutions now that go off of the standards. And so my buck to the system is always like, where that ends up and that ends up in our kids, that ends up in our education system.

Starting point is 00:56:37 It ends up like, it is just all misinformation and it just leads people straight. Confused, yeah. Everybody confused. All right, I wanna give a shout out. So people watching right now on YouTube are probably wondering why we slowly started to look like werewolves.

Starting point is 00:56:51 And right now we look, we look good again. We're doing a good show. Teen Wolf. Yeah, it's because we had so Vicky for one week. Vicky, she owns Faded Barbershop in San Jose and Morgan Hill. She's exceptional with what she's ever. She hooks us up, makes us look,

Starting point is 00:57:07 not like homeless war wolves. And so that's what you look at, but that's who I want to give a shout out. On Instagram at a faded barbershop, I want to give her a shout out, because she's... I think her shout out should come with a asterisk or like a...

Starting point is 00:57:20 Well, no, no, the buyer be will follow her, be where. Is there a barbershop that she pops up? Oh, you're doing the barber shop? Not her person. Yeah, it's a barber shop. Cause she goes, she goes kind of hard, bro. She goes kind of hard on the Instagram.

Starting point is 00:57:32 Well, I think she's been shadow band at least four or five times. So, they keep, they keep, she gave her last fuck a long time ago. Yeah. That's why we love her though, for sure.

Starting point is 00:57:43 And when you guys go on the shop, she's the sweetest person too. She gets this a lot when people come to the shop and she doesn't know till way later that they came from Mind Pump. So make sure you say hi to her. So with that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Say what's up to her and say you listen to Mind Pump.

Starting point is 00:57:55 Hey, check this out. There's a company we'll work with called Paleo Valley. They make Paleo-inspired supplements. One of my favorites is their bone broth protein. They have a chocolate flavored bone broth protein that I swore to God, tastes like chocolate donuts. It's the best tasting, literally the best tasting protein powder I've ever had.

Starting point is 00:58:11 And because it's bone broth, it's super easy to digest. Like I could take high doses of this protein and have zero gut issues, total no gut issues whatsoever with it. So anyway, go check this company out, check out their products products go to paleo Valley.com forward slash Mind pump then use the code mine pump 15 for 15% off your order. All right, so here comes a show

Starting point is 00:58:35 Our first caller is Jordan from California Jordan. What's happening man? How can we help you? Hey guys, it's super cool to meet you Big fan listen for like just about a year now. Yeah, my buddies are going to be a gel. I got to meet Tiny Beard in the gang, so what do you need? Yeah, man. But yeah, Ferriola, you guys have been great. I've only been working out for about a year though, but found you guys pretty early on. So it's been huge help. And I feel like I've kind of missed

Starting point is 00:59:08 a lot of the way you could go wrong when starting out. So big thank you to you guys. Awesome. Cool. Thanks, man. Yep. I'll give you a little bit of background. So like I said, I started working out. It's almost, it'll almost be a year. Middle of February would be a year. When I started, I was at 165 and I'm 6'2". So pretty skinny. And I did a bulk to 196. And then finished that because that was about as big as I wanted to be at that point.

Starting point is 00:59:42 And then I was going to lean out. So I started to cut about three months ago, and I've lost, I'm right now 184, and I've been losing about a pound a week, which I've heard is kind of the benchmarker or whatnot, but I don't feel like I've been any leaner. Like I'm just losing weight, but not seeing any getting any more lean.

Starting point is 01:00:03 So I just wondering what I'm doing wrong. This is such a classic, you remember we talked about that. We've talked about this before. I don't know if we've talked about the show or not as much, but it's such a mind-fuck when you shift from, you know, bulking to leaning out and that first, you know, even a couple months, like, you just feel smaller. You do. And let me explain what's going on, right?

Starting point is 01:00:26 So you come on, you're in a high calorie diet right before this. So you're glycogen levels, or your stores are filled out. So your muscle bellies are filled out. You got all these extra calories. That means your body's holding onto more water. You've got more carbohydrates in you. And so you're filled out.

Starting point is 01:00:45 And then you make this transition, like, okay, I'm gonna go on this cut. And the first thing that really goes is all that glycogen in water. And so that gets pulled out, and what it actually makes you look like is it looks like you lost muscle size. And so it's a bit of this mind-fuck of like,

Starting point is 01:01:01 oh my God, I'm not, and you don't see your abs popping anymore. What you see is like your arms look smaller, your legs look smaller. And so of like, oh my God, I'm not, and you don't see your abs popping anymore. What you see is like your arms look smaller, your legs look smaller. And so you think, oh my God, this sucks. Like I go on this cut. And by the way, it's just super common for lean guys who want to build muscle, they go on the bulk and they go on the cut.

Starting point is 01:01:18 And it's the reason why a lot of them can't stick with the cut, and this was me for a decade. So, is I'd go on a cut for a minute, just like you're right right now, and then I'd be like, fuck this, like I'm not getting any leaner, I'm just getting smaller. I'd rather be a little fatter with more muscle, and so you go back the other direction.

Starting point is 01:01:36 It's part of the process, and let me tell you, for me it was one of the most difficult things. I had the discipline to stay consistent with the eating and the training. It was the psychological part of, it would, it would fuck with my insecurity of being the small guy. But trust the process, you just gotta stick it,

Starting point is 01:01:52 you gotta stay the course, and then you'll start to see as the weeks go on, you will start to drop body fat. You will and you will lean out, and you will go through a little period of feeling like the small guy again because you've got that in your head because you probably were skinnier guy trying to build and build muscle, but it's very, very common what you're going through right now.

Starting point is 01:02:12 So I have a question. You went, you gained about 30 pounds when you did your bulk originally. This was over one course of a year. No, so that was, so like when I first started, I had no idea what I was doing. I just had a workout plan from a friend of a friend and it was like just a normal brow split, right? So I went, did that for like two weeks and I was like, I don't, I just had like a feeling I was doing something wrong.

Starting point is 01:02:36 And then I just kind of like stumbled on you guys and I was like, oh, I need to be eating more and I need to be probably doing full body. So I got anabolic, but I didn't start actually eating on a bulk until like a month. So it's been probably like, I did a bulk for about seven months, I would say. Okay, so 30 pounds and seven to eight months. Did you think that it was incredible?

Starting point is 01:02:58 Anybody that testing during the period of time, do you know how much lean body mass it is? No, I wish I did, but I didn't even know about that before. Like I was totally, totally new. Like never done anything before. Okay. So that's a lot in a short period of time. So it's likely you gain muscle and body fat. Unless you have like this really amazing muscle building genetics, I would guess out of that 30 pounds, it's probably half and half. So, 15 muscle, 15 pounds of body fat. When you're trying to cut and you're trying to go down,

Starting point is 01:03:31 it's important to do body fat testing because of the mind games it could play with you. One of the questions I have is during this cut, are you weaker or if you are, how much weaker are you in the gym? No, nothing has changed really. My squat has gone down like 10 pounds from normally, I'm in aesthetic right now, but I just finished the last one I finished was a symmetry.

Starting point is 01:03:59 That's a good sign. Yeah, if you're strength isn't really gone down much. Especially coming from that much weight. Yeah, and you lost strength, isn't, it hasn't really gone down much. Especially coming from that much weight. Yeah, and you lost 11 pounds. Yeah. You're moving in the right direction. One pound a week, strength is maintaining somewhat for the most part.

Starting point is 01:04:12 I'm, I think they're doing all right. I literally think it's a psychological thing. Yeah, it is. It's, it's, it's so, You gotta stick to the cut. Yeah. For me, the first, when I would do these big bulks, and I would cut the first three to four percent body fat,

Starting point is 01:04:24 I couldn't even tell. It just felt like I was getting smaller. It wasn't until I got to, yeah, so it wasn't until I got to like 11% that I could be like, oh, I can see what's going on. Once I get to 10%, then I'd be motivated by the definition that I would see in the gym. But until I got there, it was like, I'm just going to wear sweaters and t-shirts because the way I would feel would be like, I'm wasting my time. And so I never really did an effective cut for a long time I'd never really pushed it to see how lean I could get until I was much older You know that's you know that's what a lot of the body like a lot of us that competed

Starting point is 01:04:58 This is actually part of the strategy you and you might if you know anybody that has this will go in all hoodyed out like that. And part of that is, at least for me, this was the psychology of that, is like, I don't even want to, I don't even want to get distracted by the way I look because I know my own insecurities of being a small guy. And if I'm looking in the mirror and I'm comparing myself this week in this cut to what I was looking like, like just say four weeks ago when I was in the bulk, I know I like the bigger, thicker version of me because I was the skinny guy who just say four weeks ago when I was in the bulk, I know I liked the bigger, thicker version of me because I was the skinny guy who always wanted to be, but I know I need to lean out.

Starting point is 01:05:29 So I would cover up in a hoodie and stay that way, and so I don't even look at myself while I'm training. Just focus on the training, focus on the diet, focus on the training, and then when I think South's point, then you get to a point where you start to get really leaner than you've ever been. Like when you start to hit levels of leanness that you've never seen on yourself, then it's remotivating to peel down to the t-shirt again and see, like, see the vast majority.

Starting point is 01:05:52 You never think you got bigger. Yeah, and then that's the part that will trip you out. If you, if you stay the course, stick with the process, get leaner than you've ever been in your life, and then watch the people come to you and go, bro, you got huge. Oh my God, what did you do? It's a trip because, and you're gonna go like, what? I was 196 and now I'm like 175.

Starting point is 01:06:14 And you guys are saying I'm bigger. Like I'm not bigger, but you will look bigger because you've leaned out. I mean, this has always been a deterrent for me to cut. And I remember you having to walk me through that, you know, process and talking about like being flat and then also being filled up and that whole thing. I've always been a deterrent for me to cut. I remember he having to walk me through that process and talking about like being flat and then also being filled up and that whole thing.

Starting point is 01:06:29 And I was like completely oblivious being from the performance and the things. So it's totally a psychological game. Yeah, I think you're probably gonna end up around 175 to 178 with a nice lean physique. That's probably where you're gonna end up if I had to guess. Because you haven't tested your body fat This is a guess, but you I would I would put money on on around 175 178

Starting point is 01:06:53 With like you know decent definition where you could you could see visible abs Okay, that's so I'm not too far off. Hopefully I'll be just a little bit longer. Yeah, I Sorry, that's what I was worried about, because I didn't know if there was a point of when you've been in a cut for too long. Like, if there's a spot when you should just say, like, I'm doing something wrong, like, my body shouldn't be in a cut for this long,

Starting point is 01:07:16 or if that was just something I was making up. If you're continuing to lean out and maintain strength for the most part, because it's actually very normal to lose strength. So don't even trip out if you lose a little bit of strength. Yeah, that's from less glycogen, less energy. Yeah, so it's very common to lose some strength. So if you lose just a little bit of strength and you're continuing to lean out, I would push

Starting point is 01:07:40 it until I'm all the way as lean as I want to get, right? So if you start to feel really weak, tired, over trained, achy, then you could do like a mini bulk, kind of rejuvenate yourself, watch your intensity your workouts. Yeah, even like a week, a week of just a surplus is enough to then go right back to the cut. So sometimes I'll do that, like let's say you've been in a cut for a while, and even if you're just tired of eating that way and you miss a good workout, a fill-in-filled,

Starting point is 01:08:06 like, throwing a week where you're like in a surplus of calories and you should shoot back, and then go right back to the cut again. You can do that too. But literally, what you're describing to me, I can relate so much to as far as it's a psychological game. And when I think back to my journey of competing, that was the hardest part about competing. Not my program design, not following the meal, was the mental game of being a guy who his whole life identified as the skinny kid who wanted to be big. I finally got kind of thick and big and now here I am cutting it all away.

Starting point is 01:08:44 It was a mind-fuck and so trust the process, you'll be very happy if you stick it with it and don't let your mind play those games. The next 10 pounds you lose if you do it right is gonna be, this will be the fun 10 pounds in terms of what you see in the mirror. That first 10 pounds, you just feel smaller. Next, the next 10, you just feel smaller.

Starting point is 01:09:05 Next, the next 10, you're gonna start to see the definition of the mirror and it'll feel a little different. Yeah, it'd be more moldy. Awesome, yeah, Adam, what you said, that's like exactly how I'm feeling right now, like whatever you, that's it. Yeah, same. Nope, totally, totally can relate, bro.

Starting point is 01:09:20 You're doing good. Stick, you're doing, actually doing killer when you think about how much you put on, so you're kicking ass, bro. Test your body fat, though, too, actually doing killer when you think about how much you put on. So you're kicking ass, bro. Yeah, test your body fat though, too, because that'll give you more of an accurate gauge. Yeah. Yeah, I just ordered a body fat copper, but I wish I did that at the beginning. But I had one super quick little follow up just for mostly for Justin.

Starting point is 01:09:36 I'm looking at doing performance next, but I'm worried about not having the, because I know you said something about mace valve and some like other different types of training, but that my gym doesn't have like anything real like fancy. I don't know what equipment I would need to make sure I can do it all. Yeah, they're not included in maps performance. That's something like in terms of like incorporating stuff like that in Indian clubs, you know, for the mobility sessions. I think that's cool. And it's a great idea. But really, what you all need is squat rack, barbells, dumbbells. The only thing that's a little bit different, you need a landmine kind of setup. And if you don't, you can kind of, you know, make shift one, like put it, barbell in the corner and kind of go in that direction. But, you know, it's recommended that you you get a landmine for that.

Starting point is 01:10:25 That's the only thing, right? Yeah, performance was designed for the typical gym. Yeah. Oh, okay, perfect. Yeah, you should be good. Yep. All right, man. Thanks for calling out to our other.

Starting point is 01:10:35 Keep us posted, George. Thank you guys so much. Hi, man. Hi, brother. Oh, you know what I should have said is, you know what's really beneficial for the mind games that happen with a cut with somebody who doesn't like to feel smaller? Carb cycling.

Starting point is 01:10:49 Carb cycling helps a lot because it'll give you days of more glycogen, more water in your muscles, and then you'll look in the mirror and you'll feel pumped up, and you'll be like, okay, I think I'm moving in the right direction. Do you remember what I told you that what I used to do with this? So I used to, so I admittedly on the show,

Starting point is 01:11:08 I talk about how I'm so inconsistent with supplements. I really am, there's, I'm just not good at like consistently taking supplements. Plus I know like how small of a difference it makes to take the supplements. I focused, I tend to focus on the food diet, all the things that are in the training that's way more important, right?

Starting point is 01:11:26 So the most consistent I ever was with creatine was during this time. So I use creatine in like a water loading in a cut for the psychological reason. So because, and I think because I don't consistently use it, using it during the cut, I thought, it'll offset some of those water. And then I also started to make it a goal to pound like a half a gallon before I went into my workout. And so it would give me this fuller look. And that really helped me get through this kind of phase

Starting point is 01:11:54 that he's at right now because it's crazy how, it's, it's, it's, it's. This is just like when you take somebody who's always been overweight, you have them do a bulk. And they, and they fill out a little bit. And then they feel like, oh my God, we won the wrong direction. You can do that.

Starting point is 01:12:07 It's no different. It's definitely a deterrent for me. Oh, to address to the last question, I forget to mention also, kettlebells are recommended highly. You can get away with dumbbells, but definitely a good one to add. Next caller is James from Arizona.

Starting point is 01:12:20 James, what's happening? Hey, guys, how's it going? What's up? Hey, man. Hey, so first off, like everybody else should say thanks for everything you guys do and all the honest, good quality concept you guys put out there.

Starting point is 01:12:32 Made a huge impact in my life personally because of you guys I switched up everything in school and I'm a dietetic student now trying to be a dietitian and I'm actually in the level one cohort with NCI. Hell yeah. So we actually taught Sal and I talked at the end of 2022 on that last coach's call, and I asked you like a similar question about wildland firefighters. It was more about business, but this is more about exercise.

Starting point is 01:12:51 Okay. Yeah, so a little bit of background on me. I am the dog mushroom Alaska in the winter time, and then a wildland firefighter in Arizona in the summertime. So for me, as far as like seasons of life go, we're kind of coming up on the preseason of fire. So the season starts to peak up and ramp up in May. But between now and then it's like February, March and April. This is kind of like the preseason time. So my big question to you guys was, what is the best way to program for wildland firefighters between now and then? So we got about three months. Do we, do we cover this in the episode where we did

Starting point is 01:13:28 versus spawned first response? Similar. We did. Yeah, somewhat similar. We did an episode on this and kind of talked about the considerations for workouts. You know, because we're talking to you and we're not speaking generally,

Starting point is 01:13:40 I'm going to need a little bit more information. So for you, what are areas of your fitness that you think you can improve upon in relation to this? In other words, when you're out there fighting fires and dogmushing, where do you feel your weak? Do you stem in a strain? Stability, do you get injured? Like what do you think you need to focus on?

Starting point is 01:14:01 Yeah, so I do remember the episode you guys are talking about and I do remember that for first responder specifically, you guys recommended strong. For us, and for me, like I'm programming for other guys too, because I've been doing it for a few seasons, so they kind of let that let me do that. With NCI, I kind of got some of the nutrition stuff down, but where we see guys lacking that come in like the new guys, it's really just on like the the stamina of like we could take anywhere from you know 25 to 50,000 steps in the day, depending on

Starting point is 01:14:30 the fire and that could go on for two weeks straight every single day. So a lot of this is just getting the guys having the the the ability to take that many steps with that amount of weight anywhere from like 45 to 60 pounds and stuff. So usually we see guys coming in and they're lacking in those areas, usually the hiking areas. Yeah. A lot like work capacity. Yeah, that's strong.

Starting point is 01:14:50 Yeah. Well, okay. So generally speaking, what you would do is you would have your off season, then preseason, then in season. Okay. So like with any athlete off season, you typically are trying to build a really strong base and foundation. This is where you're looking to maximize strength, maximize mobility, maximize performance.

Starting point is 01:15:14 Okay, but strength is a big one here. So it's like, let's get strong. Let's get really strong. Preseason, we're now moving more, we're moving closer towards what the work is going to look like. So you're probably in this point going to back off on the strength focus and focus more on stamina and endurance. And then in season is all about recovery and injury prevention. So when you go off season, it's in the gym, it's heavy.

Starting point is 01:15:38 You're doing some stuff that's similar to what you do in season, but really you're trying to just get stronger, okay? When you're pre-season, then your training looks a lot like your work. So you're training and practicing with a rut, you know, you're rucking if that's very similar to what your work looks like. You're training for stamina.

Starting point is 01:15:57 You may be doing things like circuits. You're basically trying to get your fitness capacity to match what's gonna be required. Then when you're actually in the season, it's mobility, it's recovery, it's active recovery, and you're not trying to improve anything. One of the biggest mistakes people make is they try to get more fit with their workouts in season. What they need to do is try to maximize recovery, repair, and injury prevention.

Starting point is 01:16:24 That'll keep your performance higher than trying to improve your performance. Now, it sounds kind of weird, but that's exactly what happens that way. So that's generally speaking. Now, what can make up those workouts? Well, a lot of things. Off-season strength, power lift, anabolic split,

Starting point is 01:16:40 might even kind of fall strong as good in there. When you're pre-season, when you're preseason, now you're looking more like performance or cardio or something like that. Then when you're actually in season now, it's like Prime Pro, it's mobility, it's active recovery type of stuff. So I like strong leading up.

Starting point is 01:16:59 I like where he's at right now in preseason cardio and actually all the places that we have recommended to do cardio, I would pick specific things to what he's training for. So, for example, in cardio, we program the weight training to compliment all this endurance training. And the endurance training we give people kind of this flexibility, do you wanna row one day,

Starting point is 01:17:23 do you wanna run, so I would literally take that programming and I think the amount of volume around the weights is perfect for where you're currently at. And then I would modify all the cardio to more specific things that you think will carry over to your everyday life. Like back to Salis Point, throwing on a back pack, a 50 pound backpack and doing, you know, stairs for, you know, a half hour hour.

Starting point is 01:17:45 I would be doing things like that that we're going to emulate the closest thing that I'm going to get out there and do in real world. And then I, like I said, I like strong before and I like that. Performance, I can see the, I know Justin will probably go that way because of the rotational mobility stuff that's involved in there. I definitely would for sure pull mobility stuff in season from performance. Also because it's a seasonal build up, I think that because offseason it was a real big structure to maps performance. I could make an argument for what Adam Sain in terms of like starting cardio or even starting performance then cardio, then map strong.

Starting point is 01:18:25 So I think map strong is like the pinnacle of kind of where you wanna be in terms of overall volume and work capacity. So to build an established that foundational strength first, this is my argument for mass performance first, going through that specifically laid out, like phase one's very much of a building foundational strength. You get that multi-planar movement established, you get that endurance like a speed power and then we get into

Starting point is 01:18:50 power and then that kind of leads naturally into then focusing directly on cardiovascular, which is, you know, sounds like that's like a big priority for everybody coming in. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think the thing you want to consider the most is that what you don't want to do, the closer you get to the season is do most of your training in the gym. Because I don't need to tell you this, but for other people listening, there's a lot of skill involved in the activities that you do as a firefighter out in the wild. Now, I don't mean just the skill with handling, putting out fires and stuff,

Starting point is 01:19:30 but there's a lot of skill involved with hiking through the mountains and moving through brush and all that other stuff. And you can't perfectly mimic that in the gym. You'll get some carryover, but you can be fit as hell in the gym. You go out into the mountains and try and fight fires and you're gonna beat yourself up

Starting point is 01:19:47 because you don't know how to move properly. So what you don't wanna do, and there's a big mistake a lot of people make, is they do all their workouts in the gym. When what they need to do, as they get closer to season, is go out and do what the season's gonna look like. So that's one of the biggest things to consider. And then again, I'm gonna make this point again.

Starting point is 01:20:04 If you took two groups of people and one group in season was trying to improve performance, the other group was just trying to prevent injury and facilitate recovery, the group that facilitated recovery and prevented injuries is gonna perform better. And that sounds kind of funny, but they're gonna end up less injuries,

Starting point is 01:20:22 they're gonna last longer, and their performance will actually be better So consider that as well. What let's a couple James What how many what programs do you have of the ones we we listed? I? Have Strong and I mean I pretty much everything except cardio Okay, so let's let's send you cardio over and then I know we threw all kinds of shit at you right there But I think the original

Starting point is 01:20:43 Simple advice that Sal was giving about like what preseason, what in season and then what off season looks like. And because you have a background in this and you have knowledge around it, you literally could take those programs, performance strong in cardio and kind of mold, you know, more specific to you and your guys. Right.

Starting point is 01:21:02 I do have one more question though. I've been meaning to ask one of my firefighter buddies. What is it called? What's the, is it like a competition you guys do? I see every once in a while, and then you see sometimes go viral videos of the, like firefighters that run up the stairs. Yes, where they run up the ladder,

Starting point is 01:21:16 when they run up the ladder's hell fast. Like is there a name? Yeah, so that's not, so there's a big difference between like structure firefighters and wild land firefighters. Yeah, okay. So that's more of the structure side. The structure dudes, like there's a big difference between like structure firefighters and wild land firefighters. Yeah. So that's more of the structure sites. The structure dudes, like there are the guys you see in town, like fire medical guys,

Starting point is 01:21:31 wild land dudes, are the guys with like the green trucks and the yellow shirts and stuff like that, and you rarely ever see us because we're in the woods. Yeah. You guys, we don't use, like we don't use, like I can't say you wanted the last time I used the ladder, you know, we use fire water. You guys are like spikes, right? You guys are put the spikes on. Yeah, and trees. Yeah, so like, you guys are probably seeing Marana from St.

Starting point is 01:21:52 Rucky, California gets real busy. Like the season can go, that's just an Arizona. The season's like May until when monsoon's hit like July, maybe early August. But after that, we'll get assigned over in Montana or California. And California usually is like October to as late as December like in 2020. Like it gets real busy. But so you guys have probably seen this around. But yeah, that latter stuff is more the structure guys. So we can spend the assignments look like 16 hours a day for two weeks straight. So you do the 16 hours a day, but you're working the entire time and you're away from home. The two weeks straight. And then you come home for two mandatory paydays off.

Starting point is 01:22:30 And then you go back out again for two weeks. And you can do that really for the entire season. Like I've gone 72 days straight getting paid before. Holy Toledo. You know, you're constantly gone and moving around and stuff. So yeah recovery Facilitated recovery and preventing injury is gonna be by I wouldn't do any additional workouts honestly. Yeah, so I didn't ask you about the in season specifically because I figured

Starting point is 01:22:54 you guys would I figured you like I've been listening to you guys for a couple years and you agree. All I have right now and for the in season essentially was doing pulling like to maybe two mobility sessions from performance a week, and then doing four prime pro sessions and stuff like that with the guys and just doing that. I love that, bro. Sleep and focusing on optimizing sleep will be really. Yeah, you guys probably know how to use chainsaws

Starting point is 01:23:16 and axes and stuff like that really well, because you have to, right? What does a dog muster do, by the way? I know what that looks like, but what is that as a job? Are you traveling? Are you taking people from place to place? I go to Alaska from like I'm going up February and March, and I run sprint dogs. So most people know about the I did a ride, which is like the long distance race of 1000 miles. And that one is like they do it in eight to 10 days. So the dogs are running over a hundred miles every day. And they're, so they're VO2 max, I run sprint dogs,

Starting point is 01:23:47 which do 18 to 27, they're smiles a day, three to seven days in a row. And they're VO2 max is 240 to 300. Like they're ridiculously in faith. And they like have no, they recover super quickly and they're just incredible athletes. So those are the dogs that I run and we run. It's so cool.

Starting point is 01:24:04 I'm just an amateur dude, so I run like four to six dogs, but you'll have folks run in 18 to 22 dogs. Wow. And what is, what are you doing? Are you delivering mail or medical supplies? Like what's the work? Some folks do that, like some folks still use them in the villages, so like most of Alaska,

Starting point is 01:24:19 you can't get to by the highway system. So they still use lead dogs and stuff to deliver mail or medical supplies and stuff like that, but most of us race. So we have races throughout January to April. And we just go around the state. And we just like ours look from love. We have one coming up that's, I want to say it's three days. And it's from my class, specifically, it's like four miles the first two days and six miles the last day and they time and they're raising. So it's it's purely sport for you then. Yeah, yeah, okay. And it's easier for me because I don't have as many dogs. So it's easier for me to just be flexible and like fly around and do things I want.

Starting point is 01:24:58 So I can have the seasons because I also climb and stuff too. And I'm learning how ice climb like scopes. So like doing all that stuff is like, it's just, it's a lot better with a small group of guys. What's that he's missing like Alex, right? The rock climber guy who needs like crazy adrenaline, just that. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, but there's what you look up.

Starting point is 01:25:18 So the ice climbing, there's it. I'm sure you've seen it, but the alpinist on that foot. Yeah, yeah. That guy's saying like he, uh, or he wasn't saying, yeah, but he, um, like that guy, he, Alex Honol in there calls that guy crazy because he's like out soloing these crazy mountain peaks and stuff like that. But it's like, I don't plan on doing that. Like that movie doesn't make me want to go free solo stuff, but the lifestyle is really cool. So within C.I. like those the clients that I really am stoked to work with are the dudes that live at regular lifestyles like me.

Starting point is 01:25:46 I'm like, who are the guys I'm working with? There's a Olympic level speed climber. So like, those are the clients that I'm super stoked to work with. Hey James, are you in our forum? No, I'm not. I'm not. Yeah, we're going to put you in the forum. You'd be a great person to be in there too, because yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:03 So I can't wait to hear how everything goes for you, man. Stay in touch with us, all right? Thanks for calling in. Yeah, thanks guys. We ever find yourself in Alaska, feel free to come up and take a dog tour. We will. Sure, we will.

Starting point is 01:26:13 Yeah, I appreciate that. Justin, you only want to take your own. Justin and I would do that. I would do that. I would look off. You know, you wouldn't do that. Yes. You would not go in the middle of the snow

Starting point is 01:26:21 in the middle of the wilderness. Yes, it was. It's just dogs. He's driving the dogs. I just have my coat and got to hold onto his waist. You know, say like having small, Olympic athletes pull you around. I'll get you back on this.

Starting point is 01:26:31 Dude, Adam, that Adam doesn't want to go camping as long as you're parking them a nice car. As long as you get me, as long as you get me to my nice ass cabin with my fire and my, my, my head. Yeah. We have a lot on the property and everything. There we go. There we go. I'm good, bro. Thank you out there. See you James

Starting point is 01:26:47 Alright, thanks guys. I appreciate it bro. How when was the last time we got out manly so hard. Yeah Bro, you know, this hey, hey homeboy. I'll chill works You know 72 days straight and then it was it is off season or his his vacationing is in Alaska it was in his off season or his vacationing. Is it all that's going to slow down? It's not done. I love it. It's true outdoorsman. That's great.

Starting point is 01:27:09 There's definition of like alpha. You guys remember when you figured that out with athletes though? Did you have to figure that out with yourself with your own training first? Because that took me a long time because I would continuously train athletes and myself like I'm training pro performance in season. Oh yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:24 You try to improve in season. Yeah, I know. Well, that's a very common thing. Coaches like getting that conundrum. It's like, you know, they're getting all this like great performance. How can we maximize? And it's like you got to realize that you're keeping it. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:38 Keeping it intact is everything. I actually think this is, you know, credit Joe to Franco. I think Joe was the person who I probably started to find around this time of my life when I was starting to figure out the, like, good protocol for athletes, because there really wasn't a lot out there. No. There wasn't a lot of good for me. Floyd.

Starting point is 01:27:55 Yeah. Very, very, very. Very, very much. So, I mean, that's the reason why too. I always, I always talked and pumped the tires of, um, or a Paul Faberitz, because it just, it didn't exist. There's just not a lot of it. Even today, there's, I mean, I-

Starting point is 01:28:06 It's a lot thinner than I would have thought. You know, yeah, even in this internet world, there's a handful of really good sports performance coaches that are online that I feel that are accessible like those guys. Our next caller is EJ from Illinois. EJ, how you doing? By the way, I think we might have the wrong question up there,

Starting point is 01:28:24 Doug, are you, EJ and you're almost 52 years old? Is that correct? Yes. What in the hell are you doing? Yeah. You know, I think that it's some good genes, probably, and good living, not perfect, not perfect.

Starting point is 01:28:42 No injections, but just try and just try and, you know, just doing the best I can. Okay. You're winning. I never met anybody other than you. 20 years younger than me. Alright. So what's your question?

Starting point is 01:28:52 Yeah. Now that we're done flirting, what's your question? Yeah. I'm trying to do this on behalf of so many people like me that I'm working with right now. So like you said, I'm almost 52. I'm metabolically healthy. I weigh about 114, 115, 5 foot 2. I am a health coach, so I kind of do things fairly right.

Starting point is 01:29:13 I did lose a lot of my fitness level, though, from about 46 to 51, because I felt so fragile. Paramental pause just like ate me alive. And in that time, I just couldn't do what I used to do and I had to kind of get used to a new version of myself. I've been slowly building back my fitness in the last year and I do feel somewhat better, but my sleep is still elusive and I do all that crap right too. And it's still tough just with Pairing menipause and hormones.

Starting point is 01:29:49 That said my recovery always stinks as well because of my sleep situation. And I actually am one of those people that works out like I like myself, not like I'm punishing myself. I started with maps. Performance and I really like the mobility part of it, but shifted into maps 15 advanced because my kids keep me busy and I just needed to compress the time. I do do other mobility work too,

Starting point is 01:30:11 but my question is pretty simple at my age and for women like me, who can't even work out around their cycles because we don't know when the hell they are at this rate. Can we really build muscle? What is possible for me at this rate. Can we really build muscle? What is possible for me at this stage? Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:28 Yeah, well, so if I'm talking to a woman who's 52 who just started working out recently or within the last couple of years, the potential to build muscle is huge. Now I'm going to. Yeah, that's a big muscle, right? Like I've been working out since I was 25, and I was super fit, and not anymore. Yeah, so, well, I'm gonna disagree with you, because you're the most fit-looking 52

Starting point is 01:30:54 or whatever I've ever met, but because you've been working out for so long, you're gonna be working a lot with things like muscle memory. Now, you might be able to gain some of the muscle back that you might have lost. It sounds like you said you might have lost some muscle. But to perform and build beyond what you've done in the past might be kind of tough because you've been doing this for so long. And this is tough, EJ, because I find myself in this position as well. I know the guys do as well. We're about 10 years younger than you, but we've been working out for a long time.

Starting point is 01:31:26 Am I going to hit new levels that I've never hit before over the next 10 years? Probably not. However, a more fair comparison would be if you were to compare. I don't recommend this, but look at your peers. Your light years different from other women in your age group in terms of fitness, appearance, health and that kind of stuff. So the game now is less about hitting new goals and records and more about maintaining, more about trying to keep your fitness.

Starting point is 01:31:58 Now that's not to say we can't. What have you lost, though, is maintaining where I am now is a struggle. If I could get back to my last five years ago, and is that a pipe dream? No, I think that- I really, I can't get, you know. I have, no, no. It's possible, but I do wanna say this,

Starting point is 01:32:15 of when I think back of all the challenges I had with different types of clients, for sure, like a client that is going through or gone through minipause is one of the most difficult times for me to help her build muscle. It's just you have to be, you have to be at one of the greatest disadvantages of progressing the physique.

Starting point is 01:32:38 So the thing that I'd have to communicate is and remind my clients that we're going through this is to have compassion for yourself, especially someone like you who has, you know, if you think this is not very fit, I imagine you looked crazy in your 30s or 20s. So you got to get that out of your head of comparing yourself. And I've tried to de-identify with it and let it go. And that's why I'm here because I have to figure out. But it doesn't, but it doesn't mean you can't get a lot of that.

Starting point is 01:33:06 I do believe you can. Yeah, because that muscle memory is real. And you've been training for so long. You've probably experienced a great deal of muscle hyperplasia. You know, studies on people like you, people who've been working out for a long time. First off, the amount of volume and training

Starting point is 01:33:22 that's required to keep what you've built is really small. And the amount of training is required to get back if you did lose anything. It's also very small. So this is going to be a game of what's the appropriate dose? How do I manipulate my training properly? And dialing in the description. Yes, I love that she's on Maps 15. I love that. I think Maps 15 is great for you. I would like to see what we could do about your sleep now you said you're doing all the things to try to improve your sleep And I do it all right to the point that I've been chasing it for years literally and I'm trying to sit in a different energy with it and reaching out

Starting point is 01:34:00 So again, I'm a functional medicine health coach So I have like all these conditions that I can and reaching out. So again, I'm a functional medicine health coach. So I have like all these conditions that I can work with. And I'm supplemented beautifully. I'm on the right herbs. My nutritionist dialed in. Now I did screw up. I did not eat enough protein last year. And I'm super aware of that, which was working against my goals. That said, you do get less hungry as you get older. It's just crazy. So eating a hundred grams of protein or 110 grams of protein, It's just crazy. So eating a hundred grams of protein or 110 grams of protein, that's a lot. So I'm even supplementing essential amino acids to to fill in, right? Like I have all the tools available with nutrition. I have all the tools available with sleep. And I'm still feeling like

Starting point is 01:34:38 so many people out there like me feel. E.J., have you tried like bi-phasic sleeping or trying to make up for a little bit in the middle of the day? Yeah, I've been into that. It's a great question. I just have been into that a couple of months ago because I thought I cannot keep trying for this when it's just not possible. And I've been chasing it for so long. So yeah, I have been doing that. I have been trying to roll with my own rhythms more. It's really hard when you have a teenager, right? Like Oh, geez. I mean, you guys all have little or kids.

Starting point is 01:35:05 I think, wait, one of you has an older kid. I have two teenagers, so I'm going to. Yeah. So like my body wants to sleep from nine until four. That's happy. Like that's great. You can't do that. That doesn't work with kids.

Starting point is 01:35:18 So my sleep has really been off since I had kids, and my oldest is almost 15 years old. I am trying to figure out a way to, I've just pushed it, and I've pushed it with hormones, I've pushed it with melatonin and asleep specialists. I've really, I've done all the work. This is interesting. So there's some evidence, and this is more,

Starting point is 01:35:39 and I've seen some articles, this is a lot of speculation, but there's some evidence that by phasic sleeping, right? So what am I referring to? Sleeping, the majority of hours at night, but then you get maps in the day, and that's where you get your cumulative kind of sleep. There's some evidence that that that becomes more appropriate as we age, especially for women. So there's some theories around why women go through menopause at all, because men can stay basically fertile essentially, right, theoretically, till the day we die, women at some point stop being able to have children. And so scientists have tried to come up with reasons as to why, like, why is that? What's what's going on? And the best theories are that

Starting point is 01:36:19 the role of the grandmother is very important in society and tribes and her ability is to wake up in the middle of the night. By the way, this happens to women when they have kids too. Before they go through menopause, anybody who's had a child will know, women will tell you, they don't sleep like they used to at night. And this is a natural thing. They need to be on high alert.

Starting point is 01:36:40 They need to be able to hear almost anything because a crying kid in the middle nights of dinner bell for predators So so the by-phase-excleeping probably applies more to women and probably applies especially to women who have gone through Menopause or paramedicol so you if possible at all could you find a time in the middle of the day where you can do like an hour possible at all, could you find a time in the middle of the day where you can do like an hour nap? Because that might be it. That might be what you need.

Starting point is 01:37:07 I try. I try. First of all, I need to get a pod in the back of my house that I can just go to and sleep in. Like, and I'm not even kidding anymore. Yeah. Like that's like some soundproof pod. My family cheeses me about it.

Starting point is 01:37:20 That would be ideal. That said, when I watched my sleep when I'm napping, because I do try to pay attention with devices, it's still just light sleep, and it does help. I'm not going to say it doesn't help. It helps. But in my REM and my deep sleep isn't terrible, right? As long as I go to bed early enough, I might be looking for too much out of that nap, right? Like I feel like I might be looking for too much out of that nap, right? Like I feel like I might be looking for too much. Yeah, your expectations are high only. Yeah, and also, depending on how consistently you do it,

Starting point is 01:37:53 there's some evidence that shows that the more consistently you do it, the better your body gets at getting into, or reaping benefits from those naps. The other thing I wanna ask you, and you probably know that you've worked with ask you, and you've already know this, you've worked with functional medicine practitioners and you've got lots of experience with, you avoid all stimulants, right?

Starting point is 01:38:10 Or do you take caffeine still? So the only thing that I do in the morning is I am pretty attached to my Jasmine green tea. Okay, that's my... And when I say in the morning, it's usually at 6 a.m. I do have about 12 ounces and I am a slow caffeine metabolizer. I've had all the DNA Oh, and two. So I That is I feel like I have given up alcohol. I've given that

Starting point is 01:38:39 Everything you know what I mean and so That is You know what I mean? And so that is... EJ, try getting, okay, so I feel you. You really think today that little bit is? Yes, because she's a slow caffeine metabolizer too. I am, and I know that I've seen it on paper. That means that the half life,

Starting point is 01:38:58 so for people who don't understand that, that means the half life of caffeine is like double for her. It's longer, so it's gonna stretch out and still be somewhat active in her system when she's training a nap. Okay. For example, might not affect this night. I would say is it's going to affect the nap.

Starting point is 01:39:10 I don't think it affects my nighttime as much. But if I do really, and you're right, that's a great. I never even thought about it in that way. I need to pay it to it with the, I need to hope, damn, like what's left? I do want to circle back on something that you already said and you know. The consistency around a higher protein diet while you're straight, especially someone who's built as much muscles you have in the past, that could be part of the missing piece of why you're not getting it back as fast as you want.

Starting point is 01:39:40 If you're inconsistently hitting those protein intakes, that can make a big difference. And I know you already said you, you know. I did now. I have been, and I've been tracking food for years, honestly. I did for a year and half. I played, I shouldn't say I played. I was in ketosis, but in a very Mediterranean style, vegetable, heavy, but not enough protein. I could only max out at about 78 grams. And obviously, I was working against myself. The reason I did it, though, is because I felt like I couldn't educate anyone else about it if I had an experience, experimented with it. And let me tell you, it works for satiety for women who are hungry. Man, it works. But need a hundred, I'm shooting for 110.

Starting point is 01:40:26 I try to get about 90 grams of animal protein. And then I will supplement with some great essential amino acids. And I will, and I do eat plant protein obviously too. But I don't really count it per se trying to hit that 90 to 100 of animal. I love that. I would, I would look, there's two, there's a few things I would try. but I don't really count it per se trying to hit that 90 to 100 of animal. Is that the right choice? I love that. I would look, there's a few things I would try. And I think that these might make the biggest difference.

Starting point is 01:40:51 One is, and I know this is going to suck, but I would eliminate caffeine in the morning so you could try caffeine-free green tea. If you need, because there's also the ritual of drinking the green tea in the morning. That is it. So I would eliminate caffeine if you find that you still need a little bit of, you know, something, you could try Rhodiola for some people. I think that I do take that every morning. And I know combined with the caffeine, that's definitely affecting the nap, right?

Starting point is 01:41:21 Because Rhodiola is activated. So I think that's what that and the, but dump the caffeine and. Yes. So I would do that first, then the second thing I would do is I would try to go on a bulk. And because that, especially in women, being. I did do that. I did do that.

Starting point is 01:41:40 OK. I did that for about four months. I pushed my calories when I was keto though, so it was a bulk at a max of 70% use protein. Yeah, no, not the same. So the carbs, carbohydrates, especially in women, a lack of carbohydrates can cause changes in catacolamines and neurotransmitters like serotonin,

Starting point is 01:42:03 which a little bit of an imbalance there can cause sleep issues as well. Oh, yeah, the dough looks really good to me right now. I'm not going to lie. So I would try, I would try no caffeine. I would try a bulk with carbohydrates. You don't have to go crazy, but you don't go keto. But what does that mean to you?

Starting point is 01:42:20 I usually am only at about 30 or 40 grams. Oh, yeah, I bring, double it, at least double or triple it, you know. So what do you, I'm gonna eat that much food anyway. Like, I, you know, there is that I have hit that point. Then like I will stand at the counter and think I literally cannot put any more food in my mouth. EJ, this is when hyper palatable type foods can become valuable. Now, not necessarily telling you to eat garbage.

Starting point is 01:42:44 I never eat those. Yeah, so I'm not necessarily saying eat garbage, but now this is when you could start to play with foods that you're like, ooh, this tastes really good. I like the way that this, you know, like I wouldn't recommend this to most people, but you know, like fruit juice is an okay way to add. It's like a whole banana, maybe you are, you know.

Starting point is 01:43:03 There you go. Yeah. There you go, you know, you know. There you go. Yeah. There you go, you know, you can make yourself a smoothie. So I would play with some hyper palatable foods. I would go into a surplus. I would eliminate caffeine. And then see what happens with that nap of the middle of the day.

Starting point is 01:43:15 Have you ever done a stand of powerlifting, like a longer extended amounts of rest periods? If you call that few years that I felt like garbage that maybe so. I was working out and I definitely not a person that is, I'm not into cardio. I don't work to increase my cortisol at all. I literally try to stay as parasympathetic as I can, even with workouts. That said, I played around with that.

Starting point is 01:43:44 I do right now even have to take two days off at a time. What are you saying in terms of respirator? Are you saying weeks? Oh, no, no, I'm not talking about within the workout. He means between cells. I don't. And truly trying to maximize your intensity of the lifts in terms of the load. Okay. Okay. It's concerned. And I know like I like you doing mass 15 because of the maintenance right now and like your phase of life and everything. And I think it makes sense.

Starting point is 01:44:10 But in terms of stressing the system and creating something where you're focused on more like optimizing muscle gain and like to sound bulk and all that and pairing the two together, you know, might just a stint of that like a month, you know, two months of it might. Moderate intensity low reps would be a break for your body. If you're doing the eight to twelve. That's three minutes, yeah, three minutes. Three minutes. Yeah, three minutes. Three, yeah. Three, yeah. Three, yeah. Three, yeah. Three, yeah. Three, yeah. Three, yeah. Three, yeah. Like a minute. Yeah. All right, I can definitely do that. That'll take a little bit of self-control practice to do it, but I can definitely do that. That's good though. If you say that's a good sign, the Justin's on the right, hitting the

Starting point is 01:44:47 right direction, if you say that would take a lot of self-control, which means you probably don't ever really train in the three minute rest period. So there's some value there for you. Yeah. There's some value there. I like, I know it's hard because at this phase, it's like you got to like really like consider so many different things, the Titan and screw because you've had so much experience. EJ, I have, so I have some experience with what you're talking about where I couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong with my sleep, and I did everything and I couldn't figure it out.

Starting point is 01:45:13 For me, it was simply, I was doing too much volume on my workouts, and I didn't realize that that had that big of an impact. I dropped the volume, my sleep got greater. This may be something simple, like the, you know, 30, 40 milligrams of caffeine you have in the morning. I mean, it could be that, it could be that simple. So I feel like there's something

Starting point is 01:45:31 that you just haven't done yet. Starting there. That is gonna make, that'll make the biggest impact. But I work out the floor of the nap after the nap. Do you think that makes a difference? Yes, but if it's too close, if it's before the nap, too close to the nap, you're not going to be able to sleep. So if it's like you work out and then you go 30 minutes an hour later, you want to go take a nap, you might not be able to.

Starting point is 01:45:52 I would recommend playing with that. Like, I mean, we can have some general advice for you, but I think there's going to be enough of a variance, you know, with the individual on how they would feel. I don't think I personally, if I'm going to, if I know I'm going to do like trying to do a nap at noon or one, I can't train in the morning. I've got to, that's got to be, because if I lift, if I lift after, you know, three o'clock in the afternoon, it affects my workout or my night, my nighttime sleep. So it's, I have to have a lot of people. Yeah, I have to have a pretty big break there. So I mean, play with it. Go do want to do some with before and do some after and see how you feel. All right. All right, I appreciate that. I felt like I'm glad you guys said that you think maps 15 and I am doing the, I played around with the first one,

Starting point is 01:46:35 but I have stuck with the advanced. That seemed the closest to me to a workout for someone like me. And I've even kind of recommended that to people. So I appreciate that feedback you're giving me. Yeah've even kind of recommended that to people. So I appreciate that the feedback you're giving me. Yeah, no, that's a great choice. Let's put her in the forum. If you're not in our forum, I'd love to have you in there. He's like to follow up and see what's going to, you know, see how you feel. I know. I can do that. All right. We're going to put you in. Offer for so many people like me that are floundering. I'm sorry. She's I feel like there's a lot for

Starting point is 01:47:04 for me to even offer other people and something like that that are floundering like I'm sorry. I feel like there's a lot for me to even offer other people and something like that that are floundering like I am. Oh, this is selfish. I want you in the forum because I think you're going to benefit the other members in there. I also want to hear how you do, but I think you'll be a value-blast. You're hard on yourself. Yeah, you're doing great by the way.

Starting point is 01:47:20 Thank you. I feel like I am. I just, it's been a tough road letting go of who I was and inviting in who I am and trying to find like where I am in that process. You just need, you just need, you just need a couple young handsome guys to pump your tires for it. That's all. You know, it's been a big thing to find you.

Starting point is 01:47:40 You have lives that are not where I am yet. So this is, it be helpful even for them when your wives end up here. It's, you know, we carry these kids, we grow these kids, we have kids, and then here we are, and it's, it's a lot. Yep, no, 100%. Yeah, thanks, thanks for calling in. I appreciate you all, thank you. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:48:00 Take care. That has to be the hardest clients. Oh, hardest clients. Oh, this is trying to figure that out. If there was, yeah, if there was ever, um, because it's like, are you doing this? Yes, you're doing that. Yes, are you doing this? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:48:15 I, honestly, I'm going to tell you guys right now, I bet you, I will bet this and I hope she follows up with us that a bulk with some carbs and a, and eliminating caffeine will make a huge impact. Yeah, there was a few things that I caught there. One, she knew that she under consumed protein. Okay, so, and if you're trying to get back the muscle that you had, your peak, and in your 50s, and you're already fighting gets hormones, I find that that's going to be crucial that she stays that consistently.

Starting point is 01:48:43 The fact that she did make the point when Justin mentioned the long rest periods of three minutes, she was like, oh, well, she made a big deal that that wasn't take a lot of mental, which what signals to me that she moves kind of quick through her workouts. If that would, if that's going to require discipline. So there's, there's definitely value there. And then your point about bulking and the cutting, I mean, there's some stuff there, even though she's checking a lot of the boxes. I mean, that was a part that was so hard as a coach and trainer with a client like this

Starting point is 01:49:11 that I would get lost sometimes. I feel like we were doing a lot of the right things and just not to. And you know what happens with Common, with somebody who's a fitness fanatic. The place that they refuse to look at or the place that they really don't want to look at is usually where the answer is.

Starting point is 01:49:26 And you can see when she talked about her green tea in the morning, this is the last thing that I, you know, the very last thing. That's the last thing. You hit it, you hit it too, because she knows she's tested for it and she's seen it. So she's not unaware, you know? No, no, and I've seen it make a huge difference a lot.

Starting point is 01:49:43 I don't think I'm a slow metabolizer of caffeine, but I definitely metabolize a slower than, let's say, like you guys, and I've seen it make a huge difference. I don't think I'm a slow metabolizer of caffeine, but I definitely metabolize a slower than, let's say, like you guys, and I take my caffeine early in the morning too, and I see a difference when it's above 250 milligrams for my night sleep. So I wouldn't be surprised if that had a big impact. Our next color is Shane from New York. Shane, what's happening? How can we help you, man?

Starting point is 01:50:03 Not much, not much guys. I hope you're all doing well. Could go on forever. I've been a listener since 2016. And you guys have done a ton to change my relationship to food, exercise. I mean, genuinely just have improved my life by a lot. So I wanted to just say thank you first of all

Starting point is 01:50:19 and appreciate everything you guys do. Awesome. I recognize your name for sure. I know we've chatted before probably on Instagram. Yeah, I DM you on Instagram every now and then Awesome. So yeah, I I don't really know you know what Necessarily like what the question is gonna be here. I might just look be looking for encouragement more than anything

Starting point is 01:50:36 But as I just kind of reference, I've been lifting for a long time. I was a competitive powerlifter in high school So been lifting heavy weights for about 15 years and competitive powerlifter in high school. So, been lifting heavy weights for about 15 years. Got really big this summer was really strong and a really good groove and eating a lot, making gains in all my big lifts. And unfortunately, injured a disc deadlifting to the extent like, I couldn't walk sit for a long time. So, ended up in the ER, which eventually led to seeing an orthopedic surgeon and had a microdiscectomy surgery in September of this year. So, not sure if any of you have had clients that have dealt with something like that, but essentially first six weeks of recovery felt very easily. PT was

Starting point is 01:51:16 getting better and better, and unfortunately injured myself again, and for the next month was trying to rehab it, but ended up in surgery again. So I've had two surgeries on my spine in the last three months. Outlook for lifting in the future is obviously quite different now. So just was wondering, like if you guys have had any clients, first of all, have surgeries similar to that

Starting point is 01:51:38 and understanding like you guys are not doctors or PT's and I'll obviously listen to my doctor's advice and all this stuff, but just curious if you guys have had anyone go through something like that Adam, I know you had the ACL surgery, so just kind of like dealing with some body images, just as I see my body change and kind of trying to think of like what stuff in the future might be helpful, or even now like while I can't be in the gym, ways that maybe you guys have shifted your mindset to situations like this. I don't actually share all of it on the podcast because I don't think we've ever gone too deep.

Starting point is 01:52:08 So many injuries. But yeah, I actually, this is how, and literally it's around the same time frame as far as how old I was. So it started I think 28 was the first one. So I actually tore ACL, MCL, then I got a level three sprain in the next season, right, when I came back

Starting point is 01:52:27 and because I wasn't gonna hang it up yet. I bet the sprain was even worse. Oh, the level three sprains were nasty. So I got a level three sprain on the right ankle, the next season, rehabbed all that stuff that denied. I'm coming back again, next season, I roll the other ankle with a level three sprain. Same thing again, I'm still coming back.

Starting point is 01:52:44 The next season when I blew the Achilles, and and the Achilles was the final like, okay I get the sign. Okay, so once trying to give me a sign here that it's time to start focusing more on health than maybe I'll just slow down a little bit on trying to be the buff guy also playing basketball, which was not a good good idea. So yeah, I think this is kind of, because you can definitely still be hell of strong, hell of fit, but you have reached a level probably with lifting, uh, that's a elite. And you still want to get after it that way. And you're getting in a place in your life where maybe your priorities are starting to shift. And so, um, it's a very common

Starting point is 01:53:23 transition that we all go through. And We all go through to different ages. It's not like, oh, this happens at 30. I mean, some people, it gets prolonged till 40 something. Some people, it happens as early in their late 20s. For me, it was around this time of my life. And I was stubborn and resisted it for a while. And then I just learned to take my competitive mindset and shift it to other things.

Starting point is 01:53:45 And if you've been listening for seven years, like you said, you probably remember this was when I became the mobility guy. You know, I was like totally not a, and it was hard. The originally, I mean, I made it, I made it, I mean, it seemed like it wasn't that difficult, but the most difficult part was not the gym work. It was the, the mental side, you know you know, of not being the super buff strong or basketball player guy. Now, on this guy that I used to make fun of, the yogi mobility dude. So Shane, the micro dissect me, you got the same procedure twice and was it on the same

Starting point is 01:54:17 disc or different? Yeah, L5S1 and revision to skeptomy about three months later on Christmas Eve this year. So I'm about four weeks out from that. So that's sometimes they call that like a micro decompression. And so for people who don't know, you have a herniated disc, they go in and they alleviate some of that by taking off some of the disc or, you know, they shave it. They shave it essentially. So but it happened twice, same disc. So whatever's causing it is kind of still there.

Starting point is 01:54:46 Now, I train people who've had this procedure. I've trained people that, you know, a lot worse than this. And you could totally, you could totally rehab to the point where this is no longer an issue, but it's going to take some time. There's some, there's some compensations that you've probably created. And there's probably some imbalances that you have, you haven't been able to identify.

Starting point is 01:55:07 First off, I would say this, you like to work out, you like to lift weights, I would definitely train more like a bodybuilder for a while than like a powerlifter. I wouldn't train at all like a powerlifter for a long time, bodybuilding, the classic bodybuilding. I'm not talking about Ronnie Coleman bodybuilding because he did a lot of powerlifting,

Starting point is 01:55:23 but like, you know, Dexter Jackson bodybuilding. Like there's a reason why Dexter Jackson is, you know, it's almost 60, and he's never had an injury and he's still bodybuild, right? Bodybuilding is very much focusing on the muscle, the weight doesn't matter, focus on the pump, the squeeze. There's a lot of longevity in that kind of training. And the reason why I'm saying this to you

Starting point is 01:55:41 is because it's still fun, you're still building muscle. So it's not like this huge switch where you're like, oh my God, I'm not even lifting weights in a fun way anymore. So I would focus more on bodybuilding. I think a program like map symmetry would be phenomenal for some. Your lateral training would be huge. Huge. Just stick with that for a while.

Starting point is 01:55:59 Yeah, you might have an imbalance between the right and left that's causing some of this issue or some imbalances in how your muscles fire. Symmetry's phenomenal at highlighting those types of things. I would do map symmetry and I would avoid the five by five phase at the end. In fact, I would have you do map symmetry probably two times in a row and then do more body building style training

Starting point is 01:56:23 and then see how you feel after that. And then as far as your spine is concerned, I would do box squats. I would avoid traditional barbell squats. I would do box squats, real controlled, real slow, real stable. So don't just drop on the box. That'll hurt your spine, but slowly control the st-pause on the box, stand back up. I would do squats like that for a while, and then I would do trap bar dead lifts

Starting point is 01:56:48 for your deadlifts for a little while, train like a bodybuilder. But let's start with map symmetry. I think map symmetry will be pur- and you'll build muscle, you'll get great, if anything, you might even get to the point where you're stronger than you were before because you've solved some of these issues.

Starting point is 01:57:01 I anticipate, and that's really, like I would steer you in the unilateral training for a really long time. Yeah. Because much is like, you can stomp heck in terms of like shifting your entire mindset in that direction and just really just paying attention to every little shift of your body,

Starting point is 01:57:14 every little compensation that's creeping up and stop and really just, you know, regain focus, control and bracing and really just pay attention to all that stuff exclusively. Yes, it's gonna get mundane if you just go in the mobility direction, and I get that. I mean, that's obviously something that's gonna benefit you,

Starting point is 01:57:32 but in terms of strength training, and really just focusing in and harnessing that ability for your body to just maintain this really solid, rigid position, I think, will benefit you long-term to get back to a position where you're like, I feel like strong and powerful again. Shane, what was your PR at Deadlift?

Starting point is 01:57:52 What were you pulling? Yeah, guys, I mean, it really went up a lot this summer. So I hurt myself pulling about $495 and I was just in demon mode after a breakup this summer kind of thing. So I feel like the maps programs kept me injury-free for a long time cycling throughout and just got a little bit ahead of myself this summer

Starting point is 01:58:11 probably on a day I shouldn't have been in the gym. After traveling. So you're getting to five plates. So here's what happens. Muscle and balances when you're strong are really hard to identify. Because you've built patterns and you've strengthened those patterns to the point where you could

Starting point is 01:58:26 pull almost 500 pounds. So symmetry is going to highlight that. It's going to open, you're going to see differences in how you move right to left weaknesses, stability issues, stamina, fatigue, allow the weaker side to dictate how many reps and what the weight you use. Don't let the stronger side dictate that. And watch what happens. Watch what happens. You're gonna have to avoid bilateral training

Starting point is 01:58:50 and heavy training for a while because when you train heavy, your body's gonna do what it does best to lift heavy, which is whatever the hell you were doing before. Whatever imbalances or issues that you had before, that's your default pattern. And it's gonna be hard for you to identify it if you continue to train that way because that's the best way that you move before, that's your default pattern. And it's going to be hard for you to identify it if you continue to train that way, because that's the best way that you move to lift that weight. You're going to have to back off for a while and develop brand

Starting point is 01:59:13 new patterns. And the best way to do that is going to be bilateral, a unilateral training. Yeah, I like the idea of actually running symmetry and aesthetic and split, but when you run aesthetic and split, actually pulling out the exercises like the traditional deadlift or the squat and replacing it with unilateral work. So literally, you could follow the program to T but just when it calls for a barbell back squat, you go do Bulgarian split squat. I would go symmetry twice.

Starting point is 01:59:39 I would go two rounds of symmetry and I would avoid- Voice three phases, not the four. I would avoid the last phase and I would do that twice before moving to a bodybuilding time. And then even when you go to the bodybuilding, run, like I said, do still do where we call for a lot of bilateral stuff like the barbell back squat or deadlift, you switch it out to lateral stuff, do Bulgarian split squat, do single leg deadlift.

Starting point is 02:00:04 But you could still run the nuts and bolts of the program, I think you get a lot of value from that. Yeah, don't get discouraged because this is actually, if you do this right, you're gonna be stronger than you were before. Cause you got as strong as you could with whatever imbalance that you had. And you kept that imbalance and go away.

Starting point is 02:00:23 If for anybody who's listening, if you have an injury that you then have again, the exact same injury, that root issue's still there. So you hit a wall and the way you hit a wall is your body got hurt. This is a recruitment issue. So if we figure that out, which I think symmetry will do for you,

Starting point is 02:00:40 not only will you not hit that wall again, but you're gonna go be able to go past it. So this is actually, this could definitely turn into a good thing, especially at your age. You haven't even hit the age at which you can hit your max lifts. So you got some time, this will be a lot of fun.

Starting point is 02:00:55 Do you have some old man strength? Yeah, yeah, you got it. You got more time for that. Do you have symmetry, by the way? I do not have symmetry. I know. We'll send that to you, Shane. Awesome, amazing guys.

Starting point is 02:01:06 I guess like, Sal, one more quick question. If I could, you mentioned you worked with someone with a microdiscectomy. Do you remember like, roughly how long after they were starting to get back into stuff? And of course, I'll run this all by my doctor, but I'm just curious, you're experiencing. You know, I had two people who I worked with,

Starting point is 02:01:21 but they were not 30 year old, you know, people who could pull five plates. They were in the 40s, they were athletic. And it took, let me think, one person, it took us about six months, the other person took maybe nine months or longer, but they were better afterwards. You got them better.

Starting point is 02:01:40 The key for you, Shane, is gonna, and I love the advice of the lift like a bodybuilder. You really need to have the approach of just not caring about the load. I mean, if something it feels light to you, slow the tempo down more. Feel the muscle. With your amount of muscle, your youth on your side,

Starting point is 02:01:58 as soon as the doctor clears you to go, you're gonna be fine. You're gonna be just, but you have to approach it with that mentality and don't get caught up with, oh man, I was doing this much before. Like you don't even think like that. It's think like a body builder, slow the temple down, squeeze the muscles.

Starting point is 02:02:15 Like if you train like that, you're gonna be back and make a move pretty quick. You'll be right. Awesome, awesome. Well, really appreciate it. Love you guys. And again, thanks so much for everything you do. Really appreciate it. All right, man. Awesome. Well, really appreciate it. Love you guys. And again, thanks, thanks so much for everything you do. Really appreciate it. Alright, man. Thank you. Later on.

Starting point is 02:02:29 You know, just as a person, just as a personal example, um, I hit my, the best deadlet deadlift I had ever hit previous to the one that I recently did. I was in my mid 30s. I hit 600 pounds. And then I couldn't, uh, once I got up to like, after that, if I got up to like, 550, 560, I'd notice as I joined pain or hit pain, and it just, I couldn't get it back up to six, for a long time, then I got to my 40s, and you know this, I was telling you guys this,

Starting point is 02:02:58 I haven't deadlifted in a while, I'm doing single leg deadlift, I'm doing lunges and single leg exercises, and I'm avoiding heavy squats even, And I did that for like eight months. And then I went back to the bilateral heavy training and I hit a PR at an age when I shouldn't have. So you can do your limit oftentimes isn't necessarily your limit. It's what your body's like. This is any further than this we're going to hurt you. And if you figure out what that problem is, then you able to go past it. Funny, once I figure that out,

Starting point is 02:03:26 like in terms of like, when that starts creeping up, and you notice these patterns, like my hips starts to bother me, you know, my... It's always the same thing, too. It's the same thing that I immediately jumped to unilateral training, go through a block of that, to where I feel like really reinforced before I even come back to my level.

Starting point is 02:03:42 Yeah, I wonder how much, we didn't get a chance to really ask him, but how much digging he's done. Like someone like this would have tremendous value of like training in bare feet and seeing like the discrepancy from the left to right. Yeah, sure. Especially with something like a deadlift like that. Like he may not even know it,

Starting point is 02:03:58 but you might have a slight pronation on one side. Totally. Just that's what's holding you to the earth. Right. And you know, you can get away with it when you're a stronger young guy and you're lifting 200, 300, 400, but you start getting, as it gets up,

Starting point is 02:04:10 that the ability for it to be slightly off and to injure you is, the room for air is very, very little. So he could just, he could literally be like this and just have this slight pronation on one of the Canadian. Yeah, right up. And I didn't want to share this with him. I had more clients who were going to get this procedure. I know I had a lot that didn't do it, who then came to see me. And then eventually didn't have to get it. The you've see,

Starting point is 02:04:36 obviously, you guys have all seen when you go to a search, surgeons are amazing. There's a lot, there's a lot of controversy around shaving discs and stuff like that. Surgeons are phenomenal. But when you go to a surgeon, the answers that they have is based on their, what they understand. It's the one answer. And so like, oh, you heard, like we could do this.

Starting point is 02:04:52 But I've had two clients who had this procedure. I had a dozen who were going to get it, who then came and trained with me. Well, yeah, I've had clients in situations where you have somebody who has barely, you know, a millimeter out and they're in a crazy pain Then I've had others that have like five millimeters. Feel nothing Feel nothing And they then the doctors like you are you in pain? Like no, I don't feel no big deal. So yeah, it's I had one

Starting point is 02:05:17 Actually had one I actually had one surgeon. We would talk about this and he said oh, it's funny He goes salad if you took a hundred people out in the street with no back pain and you did some imaging on the spine, 50% of them would have herniated discs or whatever. So he says, it's a lot more complicated than people think. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to Mind Pump Free.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal.

Starting point is 02:05:40 You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram on Mind Pump. Justin, Adam is on Instagram on Mind Pump. Justin, Adam is on Instagram on my pump. Adam, you can find me on Twitter at my pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance,

Starting point is 02:05:57 check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos,

Starting point is 02:06:22 the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at minepumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five- rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 1996: What to Do If You Feel Like You Are Losing Muscle When Cutting, Ways to Overcome a Recurring Back Injury, How to Improve Performance as a First Responder & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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