Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2001: Why Priming is Better than Warming Up, Ways to Troubleshoot the Cause of Mysterious Aches & Pains, When to Start a Cut & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live caller's questions. But this was after a 47 minute introductory conversation, where we talked

Starting point is 00:00:25 about scientific studies, fitness, our families, lives, and much more. By the way, you could check the show notes for timestamps if you want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, you want to be on an episode like this one. Email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is LMNT. This is an electrolyte powder drink.

Starting point is 00:00:46 There's no sugar, no artificial sweeteners. And it has the right amount of sodium that you need as an athlete to perform your best. Go check them out. Go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump. And by the way, you can get a free sample pack just because you listen to mind pump. Also, this episode is brought to you by Organify.

Starting point is 00:01:03 They make organic plant-based supplements that help you improve your health and performance. They have a plant-based protein that tastes amazing and much more. Go check them out. Go to Organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. Forward slash Mind Pump. Use the code Mind Pump for 20% off. Also, these are the final hours for the January promotion. So here's what we did. We took and put together three workout program bundles. Each one of them gives you up to nine months of planned workouts. And each one of them is $300 or more off. If you're watching this episode when it drops, you still have some time to take advantage of this once a year promotion.

Starting point is 00:01:41 If you're interested, just go to maps January dot com. All right, here comes a show. Teacher time. And it's t-shirt time. Oh, you know, it's my favorite time of the week. We have four winners this week, two for Apple podcast, two for Facebook. The Apple podcast winners are Jada Per and Shelby love to and for Facebook, we have Josh Hall and Narissa. She'll Medine.

Starting point is 00:02:11 All four of you are winners in the name I just read to iTunes at MindPumpMedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Eating small meals throughout the day doesn't help with fat loss, but it can definitely help with bulking. If you're bulking, try eating small meals throughout the day. This was, it's so funny how small meals were sold one way, but in reality, it actually works a lot better the other way. Because that's where it makes the most sense, right? You're trying to eat, you know, 3,500 calories. That's like, you know, what is that? 1,200 calories of meal or something like that? If you eat three meals. Those are huge meals after a while. We're really trying to stack it up. Yeah, you have bloated and you feel, you know, digestive issues or whatever.

Starting point is 00:02:51 It makes more sense to turn that into like five smaller meals. For fat loss, it doesn't really, you know, help that much except for maybe somebody's, you know, behavior, spent a fitting, but that's that's also, you know, yes or no sometimes. But when it comes to bulking, I think small meals is kind of a staple, especially when your calories are real high or trying to eat a really high protein intake. You know, this was, I don't know if you remember when we first started the show,

Starting point is 00:03:12 this was my biggest gripe when we would talk about this, right? So obviously you would lead the show with presenting that the whole small meals myth has been debunked and there's whether you want a meal or two meal, and I was right in the thick of preparing for bodybuilding shows. And you're like 4500 calories. Yeah, I'm like, you're literally poking right at me.

Starting point is 00:03:35 I'm eating six meals a day. And yet, you know, so I'm carrying all this top wear around. And so people are probably going like, you know, with the salasane, this small meal seems ridiculous. And yet, here's Adam carrying all around. And I remember my argument was, dude, try eating 5,000 calories in two meals,

Starting point is 00:03:50 like just, and clean, like, that's not happening. Just, I don't know anybody that does that. Even some of the biggest bodybuilders that eat tons of food, like, that just had to portion it out in six meals that throughout the day. And even those are decently sized when you're crushing 4 or five thousand calories.

Starting point is 00:04:06 So yeah, I have found that the value, and I will say the value for someone who's trying to lose weight, that I still found in it, even though the research clearly shows that there is no benefit metabolically to breaking it up over six versus one or two meals. But what it showed clients was portion control and that part of weight loss and meal prepping

Starting point is 00:04:33 and there could be some behavior in discipline, right? And like, I'm putting it together and preparing it ahead of time. Yeah. And seeing what, you know, eight grams of protein looks like and what, you know, 40 grams of carbohydrates look like and what 40 grams of carbohydrates look like and getting an understanding of that, having that many meals consistently prepared

Starting point is 00:04:51 and breaking them up, and then you eat that and you're done. You don't just keep eating until your stuff. I think that was a good behavioral thing even for someone who's trying to lose weight gain. But yeah, you gotta admit though, for bulking, it's definitely like way more value. Better, more value. It's far superior, yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:07 Way more value. I mean, you're trying to eat, if you're a female and you're trying to eat, you know, 140 grams of protein a day or a man who's trying to eat 200 grams of protein a day. Like that's really hard to do in three meals. It's super satiating to eat a high, like a 50, 60, 70 gram protein or for women, 35 grams of protein and a meal, that's really tough,

Starting point is 00:05:26 but if you break it up into smaller meals, now it's more possible. And that becomes a challenge, right? I'm kind of going through that right now. I've been kind of on the slight bulk now for a little while. Got health is still good, so I'm kind of pushing it and see what can happen. And there's no way that I could bulk with three meals a day.

Starting point is 00:05:44 There would be so big and so uncomfortable, and it feels so terrible. I have to eat five kind of meals a day in order to make this kind of possible. Well, the original way they were selling it was very misleading. It was very much like the thermogenic effect of food and like eating these small meals was like stoking the fire

Starting point is 00:06:03 and like you would burn, you know, more fat with this type of an approach. And so that's just kind of like the information we got coming up as coaches. And I think that's why initially we were like, okay, we got at least put an opposite position to this. Yeah, and it's funny because the bodybuilding space has contributed a lot to the fitness space because the bodybuilding space has contributed a lot to the fitness space, because the bodybuilding space was really the first

Starting point is 00:06:28 kind of strength space that tried to apply, tried to, apply science to nutrition and to dieting that kind of stuff. And bodybuilders have been eating small meals for a while now. And so what they did, what the fitness space did, is they took what bodybuilders did, and the reason why bodybuilders did this,

Starting point is 00:06:45 was exactly what we're talking about. They were eating 4,000 cows a day, 3,500 cows, 5,000 cows. And you got to eat small meals throughout the day to do that, or multiple meals, I should say, more than three meals a day, in order to make that happen. So what the fitness space did is they took that,

Starting point is 00:06:59 and since the average gym consumer, the average person who wants to work out, not a bodybuilder, but the average person, they're interested in fat loss. They're not interested in building tons of muscle. They're not interested in being shredded on stage. They want to lose weight. So what they did is they took this thing that bodybuilders did, which was they had to do to eat this many calories and grams of protein, and they twisted it and made up some stuff to sell it to people who want to lose weight when that's totally false. Behaviorally, it may contribute and it depends on the person

Starting point is 00:07:29 because I can also, I also know people that small meals hurt them when it came to weight loss because it was easier for them to not wear to skip meals. But when it comes to bulking, I mean, just pragmatically for a lot of people that just make sense. And that's the real application. That's where I think it makes the most sense a little off topic But I wanted to ask you because you brought it up in our thread. We haven't talked since then you found out the UPS guy was a

Starting point is 00:07:53 listener so cool right how did that happen? Well, no, so I've known him I know that he's a listener for a while so you you know he drops off package Package you know sex toys like for the time this week Just box by my brain. What is it again? back as you know. Sex toys like fourth time this week. Sex is bopsy vibrating. What is this again? Let's go back.

Starting point is 00:08:05 Yes for you. Everyday. No, he drops off packages and one day he came, I said, I love your show or whatever. So I was like cool and I met him. Well anyway, every time he comes by, I say hi to him because he delivers packages in the neighborhood. Yesterday I'm outside with Aralius and we're playing outside.

Starting point is 00:08:22 And the UPS guy comes and he's delivering something to one of my neighbors. So I'm like, hey, I'm like, you mind if we look in the back of your truck because my son's like super into cars and trucks. And he's like, sure, so we go back there and he opens up the back and we have this super pumped and excited, he's checking it out.

Starting point is 00:08:37 And anyway, I admit this guy's name is Dustin, super cool guy, and he was talking about how he got the rest of the crew over at UPS, the list of the show. So, give him a shout out. Super nice guy. Does Jiu Jitsu and he was asking me? I had a great of the crew over at UPS to listen to the show. So give him a shout out. Super, super nice guy. Does Jiu-Jitsu and he was asking me. I agree. Do you tell him about your purple belt? Huh?

Starting point is 00:08:49 No. It's not even, I'm a white belt now, dude. You know how long it's been? You lose belt? You can't lose belts, right? That's not the way. My skill level's gone, dude. I know, but if you were to go back at it, they wouldn't put you back down, right?

Starting point is 00:09:01 You automatically get to... I would put myself back down, right? Be embarrassed. Well, I mean, that's like, I mean, I technically have my pro card, but I would never go get back on a pro stage right now. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:11 But I mean, it's been how long it's been? I was doing the math the other day. How long it's been since I've trained? It's been like 15 years. Wow. A long time. Wow. So yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I had a purple bell speaking of a railiest that I got to tell you guys so funny So he went to my parents house the other day loves hanging out my parents. He always has fun when he comes home

Starting point is 00:09:31 He's always like you know none of this house fun, you know Really, it's has fun. He's so excited anyway. I go over there to pick him up and my parents are speaking to each other and To me in Sicilian, okay, which I really says't understand. So they're speaking to me and it really is eating and then he looks at us and he goes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, bro, we were done. I'm like, what is clashes? What did none of the saddies like made a ban? So I wonder what, okay, so that's interesting.

Starting point is 00:10:07 You bring that up because there is, I'll have to ask Katrina which ones they are, but there's two or three cartoons that Max prefers to watch in Spanish. It is the funniest. Yeah, it is the funniest thing ever. Like, and if you try and change it, it gets pissed. And so, Katrina's like, okay, whatever.

Starting point is 00:10:24 If he wants to listen to it in Spanish, we'll let him listen to it in Spanish. So he's like, and it's only, it's only, that's what we figure, it's like, okay, if he wants to, I'm not gonna not let him do that. So of course you could listen to it. But it's only like, there's like two of them, I think. I'll ask her which ones they are,

Starting point is 00:10:37 but for some reason, did you pick them any words or anything? Not that I know of, not that I have noticed. I mean, he's still barely getting like, he's like, he's still, I mean, he was behind on his speech. And so he's still for his age, because I remember my best friend, so when he said this age, was saying things a lot more clear

Starting point is 00:10:53 than he was, he still is not putting like, consistently full sentences that all makes sense, which is the, you know, the fun part, because the stuff doesn't always speak. Oh, that's so fun. Complete sense that you're trying to do. Yeah, I really saw something new every day. And I don't even know, we're here.

Starting point is 00:11:06 He hears half the shit. Like he was, he was in a blanket the other day and he's like, oh, but, but it's so cozy. I'm like, what? Cozy. Like who says cozy in that? He says stuff like that all the time. It makes you realize that they hear everything

Starting point is 00:11:20 that they pick. Oh, he said shit. I didn't tell you guys. Oh, he cussed. See, Max isn't cussed. Bro, he dropped. I'm that's like, I'm proud of us that we keep it up. You know how he did it?

Starting point is 00:11:28 He did it the way I do it. Cause I think he can't hear me. So he dropped something and he's like playing and he whispered, he goes, shit. I'm like, like Jessica, I think he just said shit. That's it.

Starting point is 00:11:39 Here's what we said. You know what I'm going through right now. So this phase we're at is really interesting. And I definitely noticed a difference when he gets to go to school and when he does it, he is going through a really aggressive physical phase now with me. Like he's always kind of wrestled and we play. And a lot of that I feel like was me, you know, you know, kind of mess with him where now I had to catch myself because I'll come home.

Starting point is 00:12:04 I might be doing something still work wise or working on something the house We been putting things together at the new place and so and he'll just I don't know where off the couch Just like jump on the back of my neck and face rake me and like fucking stick his e a fingers in my eyeball and my nose He's like he's very Physical and and and aggressive right now, and he hasn't had that. I took a treat him like, man, he's more than usual. And what I think I'm actually connecting it to aside from he's kind of probably going through this phases, it is definitely more when he doesn't go to school because we've been

Starting point is 00:12:38 in this transition from moving from the other town to this one. And so he's been out of school more the last two or three weeks. And if I come home and he has and he hasn't got that playground energy out, oh boy, that's the, he don't even say hi to me. It's as soon as I walk him door, it's like, oh, he was over and hits me right in the nuts. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:57 And then it's like on, you know what I'm saying? It's like I cannot get, cannot get him to stop. He's just the last stop. I made a really, it was throwing his toy cars and one of them hit me in the nuts and I'm like, oh, and him to stop. He's just the last stop. I made, I really was throwing his toy cars and one of them hit me in the nuts and I'm like, oh, and I'm, you should never. Yeah, because now you got a reaction. Yes, so now he knows.

Starting point is 00:13:11 That's where I aim. So you'll walk up to me while I'm doing something with a toy and if I don't see him, he aims directly for my nuts every time. And it's like, I'm so happy for Everett's birthday. I think I told you guys, I don't think I told on the show, but we got him this punching bag of one of those guys, it's like a torso and then just a face.

Starting point is 00:13:30 And so I put that downstairs and this is like working famously because I knew, I'm like, dude, if he's anything like I was where it's like, you get frustrated and he's going through the spell of like, he just wants to like, just resist and rebel. Like almost anything that you're gonna promote to him. You know, it's like any kind of schoolwork, any kind of like, go into gymnastics or doing anything

Starting point is 00:13:52 that like he's not doing right then. He's just like, ah, you know, I'm like, okay, go beat up Chad. He named him already. He named him Chad? Yeah, he named him Chad, he goes down there and he listen to, like, ah! Ah! It's just like, he's in the shit out of this thing.

Starting point is 00:14:09 I love it. It's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, Justin. I've already buried that, that, that, that ain't going to go to. You got a long time ago, dude. Let it, let it out, everyone. We might need to get like a really strong one, though. You guys want me to surface it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just, that's why we don't want you to use psychedelics. God knows what I'm talking about.

Starting point is 00:14:36 You hit the wrong. You're choking out of shaman, dude. Yeah. You want to be the release this, it's all. Hey, speed of psychedelics. We're, what's the, you know, you, you were pretty good about updating us on a pretty regular basis on the legislation that was going on

Starting point is 00:14:49 and like, are they making any new moves? I mean, you were, you were an owner of Compass. I know you had their stuff before. I still have some of their stock. So, ketamine therapy is now legal in, I know here in California. So you can actually get that. I've never tried that before and I've been told to.

Starting point is 00:15:06 I've never heard. I mean, I haven't either. So I actually talked to a therapist who's an expert. She doesn't do the ketamine therapy, but she's works with it and is familiar with it. And she says that what it does is it allows the brain to rewire thought patterns so that you can overcome these kind of automatic thought loops or react to processes. How does she compare it then to psilocybin? Because I feel like that's what

Starting point is 00:15:31 psilocybin does. They all do that to an extent, but they're all different, right? So I MDMA, psilocybin, both I've experienced, both I've used like in the relationship therapeutic way, and they do have a similar yet different feeling from. Yeah, that's a really good question. Adam, I'm not quite sure. I know that they work similarly from what they see, but they're obviously different. Yeah, I thought ketamine was kind of,

Starting point is 00:15:55 I don't know any of that, right? Ketamine tranquilizer. Oh yeah, I just say, I thought it was more like an opiate as well as what I was gonna say. Something that's more sedative. I don't know. So, so what MDMA is obviously not sedative at all.

Starting point is 00:16:04 No, so the way she explained it is she's so so she has experience with it She had a severe fear of flying and she said after one session She can get on a plane now. She couldn't get on a plane and after a session she can get on a plane So the way was and there's literally places in San Jose that you can go to so the way she explained it to me is You meet with a doctor slash therapist. I think they do a session with you. Then they give you the ketamine to take home. And it's in a, I think it's called a trouch,

Starting point is 00:16:35 a trouch, trouch on how to pronounce a TR-O-U-C-H-E. So I don't know how to pronounce that. A trouch. I don't know. A trouché? A trouché? No, it's a French word. It's trouché. Butouche. No, no, no. It's a French word.

Starting point is 00:16:45 It's Trouche. But anyway, you take it home, I think you call them, then you write in a journal, you put it, you take it, and you make sure you have a sitter. They say you have to have a sitter, so someone kind of get your water and whatever. You take it, you lay down, and then once it starts to kick in, you sit up and you write, and you think you have to have an intention. Like, I want to process this, I want to process that. And that's it. So you get home. Yeah, okay, so there's places here in some image.

Starting point is 00:17:11 I mean, is that anything? No, you go home and you think about, it's not illegal, so? No, it's legal. I didn't know that. It's legal for this, for therapy. Well, especially, they allow you to go home with it. Yeah. That sounds crazy, like a big step. So, I mean, legally-

Starting point is 00:17:25 There's a website, I could find the website. Yeah, I find it. So, legally, could we do it and then, like, do it on an episode or something? I mean, you have to have to actually have- No, no, no, you gotta bro, you can't just go through a psychological issue. Yeah, well, I mean, you guys, I'm sure you guys have lots of fun. But yeah, I know you guys pretty well, so- Justin, we don't want to do that.

Starting point is 00:17:41 You qualify for 15 sessions. Or you told us. Yeah, that's cool. But- I'm just gonna be angry. But anyway, that's what want to do that. You qualify for 15 sessions. You told us. Yeah, that's cool. I'm just going to be angry. But anyway, that's what's happening right now. And I think that's what the way these things need to be used. Because you also look at the research and it can, as effective as it can be for helping people with certain issues, it can also trigger and send people into terrible anxiety.

Starting point is 00:18:03 Well, and it can create PTSD. And it can also be very addictive as I've seen in our space, the people that... Psychologically addictive. Yeah, I mean, I could see how that happens. I mean, I, in the last, what, a few years introduced Katrina to it. And, you know, one of the things that we notice is every time.

Starting point is 00:18:21 So in five years, we've probably done it four or five times. So once a year, I'd say we have done like micro dosing with psilocybin. And every time we have, we have amazing breakthroughs in the relationship and we feel even, so I could see how people could get addicted to that. That like wow, man, every time we do this, sex is amazing and oh, we learn something new.

Starting point is 00:18:43 Yeah, and because it's a powerful tool, I could see how you start to play that, you know, justifying. Well the way you would do it again this weekend, it was good. That's the way that it was explained to me is the integration is the work. Right. So you get the feeling, you get the ability to think about things in a particular way for give yourself, whatever, however you want to word it. And then it's the integration of the work afterwards that's important.

Starting point is 00:19:05 Falling in love with the feeling that it provides is then that becomes addictive behavior and you distract yourself. Well, and then I think also the other part isn't just the integration part. And then also I think the goal would be just like how we talk about like intuitive eating. The goal would be to figure out what it's helping you

Starting point is 00:19:22 break through with and start to teach yourself how to do that organically. That's what I was really. So I think, you know, when I talked to like Katrina's mom who's more on the holistic side of things like that, they don't use anything like that and she's hardcore in a meditation and the spiritual stuff. Like I would tell her about my experience with that

Starting point is 00:19:38 and she just kind of laugh at me and she goes, oh honey, she goes, that's the beginner stuff. When you get, when you really learn to do this, you don't need any drugs, you do this naturally. That makes sense. And I don't disagree with her. I'm like, I could see how people could get addicted to the drug and the high part of wanting to utilize it.

Starting point is 00:19:55 And to me, maybe that's the lazy part, is that you just... I could see it being a tool. Like, imagine this. Imagine if we had a way where someone could take a pill or something and then be fit and healthy for 24 hours. So it would give them the feeling of, oh, this is what it's like.

Starting point is 00:20:12 Right. Oh my god, this is what it feels like it feels good. Right. So then that might be the impetus that they need to say, okay, this is what I want to do and take care of myself. But the work is still in doing those things. And also, there is no end goal. We've talked about this a million times.

Starting point is 00:20:24 It's the journey process. that's where you learn. So, and someone could get addicted to just taking something to think about. Exactly, yeah. I mean, highly likelihood to be seeking those pills out like continuously to fuel that feeling. Speaking of that, what we see,

Starting point is 00:20:36 I mean, we see that a lot in our space. I feel like our space tends to, which I'm sure there's somebody who's listening right now who's gonna get defensive about this like as you're poking at that. Our space does this because, I mean, my theory is this, is that the health space is a growth-minded,

Starting point is 00:20:52 whether you wanna look better, burn body fat, build muscle or not, you stay in it long enough, it's a pro-personal growth journey, because that's what it is, really. And if you stick to it long enough, eventually you're like, okay, I got this fitness thing down. Wow, I've developed a good relationship with nutrition. Okay, I've got a better relationship

Starting point is 00:21:10 with stress and now relationships and eventually get to spirituality. And that's why you see all these fitness and health people who've been doing this for 10 years. Next, you know, they're, you know, doing psychedelics, they're doing ayahuasca, they're doing crystals and they're searching, right? Because you keep going down this path, you're eventually gonna touch everything. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, reason, praying to my mother, Ayahuasca and doing crystal stuff doesn't seem as religious to you. So you go, sorry, I know I'm probably offending people. I just, no, I mean, it's just, it's growing. I mean, I see, yeah, it is ironic to me, somebody who's seen both and been around both.

Starting point is 00:21:54 I don't believe in all that, but you know, the universe told me. Yeah. It's like, it's a difference. Yeah. Anyway, speaking of pills, I was thinking a lot. So there's this doctor that has now been interviewed a couple times. Don't remember her name, we'll find her, but there's this clip of her talking about how, you know, regardless of this, like something along the lines of regardless of your lifestyle, how you eat, you're not going to change how you're obese.

Starting point is 00:22:23 It's like the your odds of being obese if you have two obese parents. That was a 60 minute. That was a 60 minute interview. Yes. The odds of you being obese if you have two obese parents is 80%. She's like, so genetics play a huge role this and that. And it makes me want to rip my remaining hair out of my head because the reason why you have an 80% chance of being obese with obese parents

Starting point is 00:22:45 is because you live the lifestyle that they live. It's not, it's not a disease, stop trying to sell it. So I was thinking a lot about this. You got to help us in that fact. And I'm gonna make a statement that I 100% stand by, which is that the pharmaceutical industry, so big pharma and the medical industry, either knowingly or unknowingly,

Starting point is 00:23:04 so consciously or unconsciously, do not like fit and healthy people. In fact, they hate fit and healthy people because fit and healthy people are the worst consumers of their products. If you're fit and healthy, you don't take far less medications or the medications that you do take

Starting point is 00:23:23 if you have to take them, or typically generic and inexpensive. So maybe you're a diabetic because you're born to insulin or you have to take thyroid. Okay, but you're not taking expensive pharmaceutical drugs that are controlling all these different symptoms. You don't go to a hospital or the doctor very often at all. You are not the consumer. They're looking for you are not a profitable consumer. I think it's I think it's less insidious than that. I think it's just more straightforward that the way they make the most money

Starting point is 00:23:48 is giving you the pill. The easiest way to convince you you need that is to convince you that it is some genetic thing. Well, that's what I mean. I know, but I mean, I don't think it's like there's this like evil plan, like we hate we want everybody. No, I think it's easy. It's like, hey, if we tell people it's not their fault,

Starting point is 00:24:03 they already don't want to exercise, they already don't want to make those choices. So now we're giving them the easy out. And then what we're gonna do, and that's what, by the way, like if you cannot see the setup that's coming. Oh, come on. It's like way too hard. It's pushing so hard.

Starting point is 00:24:17 Yes. And that's the follow up to this is all these medications that are gonna follow that. And now you're gonna have all these people that are gonna be on these and now you're going to have all these people that are going to be on these fat locks. You're going to be able to go to the doctor and by just being overweight, no other conditions, you're going to qualify for obesity drugs, insurance is going to cover it and they're going to make a killing and they're going to convince you that there's nothing you can do lifestyle-wise to change this, so try and take our medication.

Starting point is 00:24:44 Now I'm not saying, this is what I mean by unconsciously, unconsciously unconsciously. I don't think they have this big meeting in the like, we need to get rid of, like we hate fit and healthy people. But I mean, it's- Dr. Claude, there, just not. No, what I mean is that the system itself,

Starting point is 00:24:58 the system itself is- It's a specter gadget, right? It's excellent. It's geared and designed to treat people who are not fit and healthy. So by design, you are not the consumer. You fit and healthy people, exercise regularly, people who eat right, people who take care of themselves,

Starting point is 00:25:14 are totally not the consumer. They're looking at everybody else. And so if they can get everybody to move from here, to here, or take people and prevent them from moving in that category of fit and healthy, they've expanded their market. And the largest, most profitable potential market that I can think of is obesity because you don't have to have eye blood pressure, you don't have to have diabetes, you don't have to have anything.

Starting point is 00:25:36 If they can make obesity a disease, you qualify for treatment, insurance companies cover it, doctors can now treat it. And you have just opened up a billions and billions of dollar market. And that's the whole point. Yeah, I agree. That's a lot of money out there to be made. Bro, speaking along those lines,

Starting point is 00:25:52 let's go, I'm gonna go down a little tangent here. So, okay, so I'm not gonna make any statement, like, opinion, I'm not gonna pass any opinions, but it's really weird, okay. I've been, I wrote them down. I've been seeing articles, like I've never seen down. I've been seeing articles like I've never seen before. I've been seeing articles that are saying, eating too many eggs is causing blood clots. Climate change is increasing the risk of heart attacks, sudden heart attacks, solar flares,

Starting point is 00:26:19 social media, solar flares too. Gas stoves, set in adult death syndrome is like this big thing now that people are talking about, that I'm seeing articles come out like crazy, how's this thing? Isn't that weird? Yeah. I've never seen so many strange articles connecting. I just imagine things.

Starting point is 00:26:40 You're giggling, and you're trying to figure this out, like why what you're seeing is, you know, and then you're going to stumble upon an article that's telling you like, you know, solar flares happen every so often, and then, you know, people get heart conditions as a result. Well listen, we need to give, we need to give people something to attach themselves to and share to their friends when they're defending their reasons for their five shots that they've taken. That's what it feels like. Really, what it smells like to me is just like, here you go, here's some articles to help defend yourself

Starting point is 00:27:13 on why you're gonna get your next booster and why it's smart for you to keep doing that because this is attached to other things. It's just weird to me because I, you know, like, again, I'm not gonna make any statements, but when I see the propaganda machine go in full swing, and literally, I've never in my life seen articles that have said anything like this.

Starting point is 00:27:31 It's very weird to me. So it's like, why are they saying all this? Is it because they're preparing people for data that's coming out, that's showing? Of course, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's strokes, blood cloth, and heart attacks is this blow up? Okay, so explain how the process is invested. Yes, it's, explain, explain the process to me, because I that strokes blood cloth. Well, didn't you take it to this point? Okay, so explain how the process is investigating.

Starting point is 00:27:46 Yes, it's a explain explain the process to me because I'm unfamiliar with this like CDC launched an investigation. Yeah. So what should we look forward to as far as like how long does that take before we start to hear numbers and feedback? Where is it going to be announced?

Starting point is 00:27:59 Is it going to make mainstream media? Has it already been announced? Yes. Are you? Oh, years. Oh, wow. That's crazy? Yeah, it'll take years. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's crazy.

Starting point is 00:28:06 Yeah, it'll take, it'll take at least a few years to get all that data. And I told you guys that. And between that time, we should be able to get at least four, or five more boosters out as well. Five are saying, right? Like, oh, we still got four, or five more. And now we have to, we have to change, you know,

Starting point is 00:28:19 with athletes and people getting physicals, like, to make sure, like, they account make sure they account for any kind of like- They're doing EKGs. Yeah, so schools- That's protocol now. Yeah, a lot of schools now are as part of your physical. When you get a physical, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:28:35 I've gotten physicals when I was a kid for judo and tournaments and they don't do an EKG on you. But now lots of schools are requiring EKGs as part of physical because of the they're saying because of the risk of sudden, you know, heart failure. Yeah. Just on the course calls up mouse or whatever. What was the percentage of it? Because I know the the people that defend this or try and argue it is that this has been

Starting point is 00:29:01 around for decades and we've known about it. And I can't remember what I read, but the percentage of athletes on average that have gone down for the sudden death, right? Yeah. I forgot what the number was for the last say decade we've been tracking, and then in the last year or two. There was like more. Then in the last year, then the world previous.

Starting point is 00:29:23 Right, right. I think that's what I read. So in the last year than the previous right right. So I think I think that's what I read right So in the last year all of a sudden we have we've accumulated more in one year's time than we did the previous 10 combined To me that's well, and it's hard to because you'll get like countering Articles and in all this other information trend to dismiss a lot of the numbers and kind of shuffle the numbers around And so it's like what what are the actual numbers? It's really hard to get, but just from examples that you can Google of like all around the world

Starting point is 00:29:52 of people, whereas this happened to, and especially in the athletic community, where it happens very infrequently, it's very substantially hard. So here's, and this is gonna, for sure, we're gonna piss somebody off here. I was talking to my cousin, day before yesterday, and they just had a family friend that was hospitalized Here is, and this is gonna, for sure, we're gonna piss somebody off here. I was talking to my cousin, day before yesterday,

Starting point is 00:30:05 and they just had a family friend that was hospitalized with the clot a week later after the vaccine or the booster or whatever. And one of the things that her and I were talking about was like, you know what's really crazy? She, and she's like, I know nobody that died from COVID or had anything, everyone got, I know a lot of people that got sick and felt like a bad flu,

Starting point is 00:30:27 who just, I have nobody connected to me personally that died of COVID. And I said, well, I have, I know one person who was connected to me. She goes, but I got at least five people I know that had some severe adverse effects after they got at the vaccine. And I said, I can't deny that either.

Starting point is 00:30:42 I said, I actually, I have way more people I know that I've heard issues of the side effects from taking it than I knew that actually. And I know somebody who died from COVID. Look, this is anecdote, okay. So not evidence, we're not doctors, but I have a cousin, 14 years old, who he lived in Italy,

Starting point is 00:30:58 and they really pushed hard over there. Like you got a digital passport, you couldn't work, you couldn't go grocery shopping. And he had to be hospitalized, and he's still getting treated. They can't figure out what's wrong. That was after he got his vaccine. I have another cousin who was breastfeeding,

Starting point is 00:31:15 and by the way, you could look this up. The sounds crazy, but you could look it up, and in forums, you'll see women talk about this, that their breast milk changed, and turned a blue tinge. Her breast milk changed, started turning a blue tinge, she stopped breastfeeding her baby, couldn't figure it out. By the way, I do wanna say this, again,

Starting point is 00:31:31 that's all anecdote, but the industry itself is to blame for all the people who are not trusting them because of the way they pushed it, because of the way that they gaslighted people. There were women who were like, this is messing with my period and they got canceled off social media. Then later on, they're like, oh yeah, it does affect your period.

Starting point is 00:31:52 There were people who had canceled for certain thing. Oh yeah, it does do that. We got that rasmussen, a poll that came out, a palt poll that came out. Seven percent of people in the poll said that they got side effects that were severe enough for them to go back to the doctor or take work off. Well, the biggest thing that's,

Starting point is 00:32:04 the most bullshit about all of this to me in my opinion is that, and we will get this from this conversation, is that, oh, I don't want to hear political talk on that. That there's, we've attached it. We've attached a medicine and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and that we can't have an open discussion about our thoughts around it without us supposedly staking a a claim for a political side. That's ridiculous to me. We're in the science business. That's what we've been doing. That's part of our field. You need to not to not

Starting point is 00:32:37 be able to communicate that openly with other intelligent friends that I have in the space without it turning into oh, you're making a political stance. It's fucking crazy to me. Why can't I know? I don't, I have, this is nothing to do with how people vote. I'm just, I'm so curious about what, what's going on. What's concerned people's health and so on, and to me it, it, it's in that sphere of what

Starting point is 00:33:00 we talk about, what we're concerned about. It's always like a consideration is like how we can advocate for ourselves. That's just the natural thing to talk about. Look, you can go back, we recorded podcasts when this is all going down. And I kept saying, we gotta look at the data, I wanna look at this, I'm healthy, so I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait a little bit.

Starting point is 00:33:17 I was never anti, never pro. I was very much like, let's look and let's see what's going on. Well, with the current accepted data, the current accepted data, these are at the very least, nobody can argue this, ineffective, they're terribly ineffective. They don't prevent transmission. They last like three months, the preventative, whatever.

Starting point is 00:33:35 The side effects are nasty. People feel like shit the day after and then other people, there's other reports of other stuff. But the accepted data shows that these are ineffective, like risky in terms of side effects, and the most profitable. That's a terrible combination. Yeah. Especially without scrutiny.

Starting point is 00:33:50 Especially when you have a pharmaceutical company or a company in general, a corporation that got a deal with the US government guaranteed taxpayer dollars to the tune of billions of dollars. So that's where I'm like, let me just wait and see what's going on. Let me continue looking at the data. And oh, by the way, you tell me almost anything. And I'm gonna question it because your incentives are to lie to me.

Starting point is 00:34:12 There's no incentives for you to tell me the truth, unless the truth is in your favor. If the truth isn't in your favor, your incentives are lie. And do you have a history of lying? Well, the largest lawsuit ever for fraud was towards a pharmaceutical company. Largest ever paid out was that they lied and that they got to pay out. I think what drug was it. I don't remember what the drug was.

Starting point is 00:34:33 That's crazy. There's so many examples. Yeah. And then the government, do they lie to you? Yeah, they lie to you all the time. I mean, that's what they do. They lie to you all the time. There's so many examples of these pharmaceutical companies getting sued like crazy for adverse effects that they were withholding from public knowledge

Starting point is 00:34:47 I'm just over the gaslighting about having a conversation. I think this ridiculous. Oh, which by the way too Trump was a huge pusher of this thing for It's not a left or right thing. No, he's still is not a left or right thing It's a it's a government and fucking pharma thing. And the fact that you can't openly communicate it without being canceled or people fucking getting all defensive like you're trying to make a political sense. Saying political, so the fucking wake up, open your eyes, do you pay attention to the signs?

Starting point is 00:35:15 And guess what? And we said it here and we've been saying it here, watch what's about to happen to you all with the obesity thing. That's coming next. That is 100% and that's the thing for you. It's easy to predict. They're setting the table right now with the bullshit gaslighting around it being a genetics thing.

Starting point is 00:35:31 And then the next thing is gonna be, they're gonna solve your problem. Yup, yup, yup. All right, so you mentioned athletes, Justin. You reminded me of something interesting that I just read about one of the most undervalued performance enhancing substances that you can find. It's one of the most undervalued performance enhancing substances that you can find. It's one of the least expensive, most effective performance enhancing substances.

Starting point is 00:35:50 It's sodium. I just so check this out. So, so you can lose about half a liter to four liters of sweat per hour during a workout, okay? So that's on average. Half a liter to four liters of sweat. Each Okay, so that's on average, half a liter to four liters of sweat. Each leader has roughly 900 milligrams of sodium. Okay, so if you sweat a lot in one workout, you might need up to two to three grams, two thousand to three thousand milligrams of sodium to replace what you lost. So what does that mean? When you don't have an sodium in your body, your muscles can't contract effectively. You can't, you lose stamina, you lose strength,

Starting point is 00:36:27 you lose the ability to hold on to fluid. For bodybuilders, you don't get a good pump. Your protein synthesis can drop as a result. In extreme cases, you become faint dizzy and all that stuff, you feel like garbage. Headaches. Yeah, headaches. So do you have any idea?

Starting point is 00:36:41 Any idea on how much you lose from the sauna and jacuzzi? Oh, probably more because you swip more. If I sit in there, if I don't stay hydrated or take my element T before I go in, and I sit in there longer than 20 minutes in either the sauna or my jacuzzi, I get a massive headache. And I'm always remind, God, damn it, I know better.

Starting point is 00:37:03 So I've identified for myself, I'll drink one element T during my workout. So that's a thousand milligrams and I'll drink another one when I go in the steam room, which is another thousand. If I do that, I feel good. I wonder how much you lose. Can you look it up, Doug? Can you tell me what like how much sodium, what like what? 30 minutes or something? 30 minutes of a sauna or 30 minutes in the jacuzzi. How much salt? This just happened to me that at night. Like Katrina and I, we were out in the our jacuzzi. Maybe how much sweat you lose, dogs, because then we

Starting point is 00:37:26 know it's 900 milligrams per liter. See what that looks like. But it's got to be more. Yeah, a pint of sweat during a short stint. So it doesn't give you an exact comment. How many liters of pint? It's less than a liter for sure. It is. Well, two pints in a court. Well, four courts in the gallon. So I mean, I think a leader, it would really motivate me. Like, hey, you know you're losing this much when you do. One leader is two pints. So, you're probably losing, I would say you're probably losing a leader to two leaders, depending on how much you sweat. And you know the more you sweat, the more you do it, the more easily you sweat. I don't know about you guys, but if I sauna regularly, I'll break a sweat real fast

Starting point is 00:38:21 and sweat real nice. I haven't even noticed that. I don't know if I've ever been. This always reminds me though. I mean, when I was playing and it was like humidity levels really high, we were just like sweating, just getting to practice. But the protocol was like, drink a lot of water,

Starting point is 00:38:37 make sure you're properly hydrated. There wasn't enough talk about sodium intake. And there was still that dehydration effect that you would feel even after you're done with practice and we didn't have that right balance. That's because we grew up in the air of salt being demonized. Yes, salt and fat was a big one. I think that still persists. It does.

Starting point is 00:38:59 No, no, no, you're right. It does, but it was real high. At least, I mean, there's brands like Elemente and some of that that are now popular. If your sodium's low, your cravings are off, your mood is off, you're not gonna have good performance, you're not gonna sleep well, it could throw off your hormones,

Starting point is 00:39:15 sodium will affect things like your thyroid. So you need to have adequate sodium, it's the most underutilized, undervalued, and yet most effective when needed, compound you can think of as salt. Wars were fought over salt. You know, it's a really big deal. And by the way, I mean, if you're somebody who's like, I know we're connected to, we're actually partners, we're an army, excuse me, investors, investors, and element T. So obviously, there's a motivation for us to steer people to

Starting point is 00:39:45 LMT, but listen, if I can just salt your food, go out of the way to go get that. I mean, I'm seeing you in your water. Yeah, I mean, if you, if it's like a money thing for you, it's like, oh, it's ridiculous. Why am I paying this? But then don't then then salt your food. The point, the, the science, the information, the point we're trying to make still stands true. Like that's something that people don't get enough of. What's nice about that is that it's convenient. It's easy. Yeah, you can rip it up.

Starting point is 00:40:11 It's also got the right, poor right in. It's also got the right ratio of magnesium with potassium, because you want to have those, a little bit of those as well. And you know, right? Like, I mean, when I salt my food, like how much am I really getting? Like I'm not like weighing, measuring my salt,

Starting point is 00:40:23 then putting on, going, oh, that's how many milligrams I have. Whole natural food has very low sodium. Very low. Yeah, I mean, you'd have to eat processed food as an athlete to get the sodium that you probably need. And you know what's terrible, what you said, Justin, is that athletes don't know this?

Starting point is 00:40:36 They think they're just dehydrated. So they just drink more water. If you just drink more water, you'll actually throw your electrolyte balance off even worse. Yeah. Even more. And this is where you'll get people drink water, drink water, and get actually throw your electrolyte balance off if you will be worse. It will be worse, yeah. Even more. And this is where you'll get people drink water, drink water, and get dissier and feel

Starting point is 00:40:48 shittier. I need more water, and feel worse and worse. That's happened to me, yeah, like I said, that was the only protocol, and then they would weigh you, you know, before practice and then after practice, and like, that was really the only, like, sort of standards they had. Yeah, they're trying, but we're still, you know, having the effect. Speaking of weighing, I just read about the longest fast

Starting point is 00:41:09 in history in the history. Longest fast? Yes, the longest time. 40 days and 40 nights. Somebody with a, someone beat Jesus. No, yeah, dude. Somebody beat Jesus. With somebody crushed Jesus.

Starting point is 00:41:20 No way. What? How many? This was recorded, medically recorded, and it's in the Guinness Book of World record. So Agostino Barbiari, this was a Scottish man, he was, let's see, he lost 276 pounds. So he was a big dude, he was like 400 pounds. He didn't eat for 382 days. No way. 382 days. He's literally living off the reserves in his body. So he was 27 years old.

Starting point is 00:41:48 It was 1965. And he got, his doctors monitored him. All he had was tea, electrolyte powder, multivitamin and coffee is what I read. For 382 days, he only had those things, had nothing else, lost all that weight and checked this out. Trip off this. Every 37 to 45 days, I think it was, he still pooped during that period of time.

Starting point is 00:42:14 What? He was pooping his own fat. No. It's bought and it's what he survived off of. He was so obese and they showed before and after picked up. Just oil just dripping. What? They show him before and after. I thought it was never even come close to guessing that yes, isn't that crazy?

Starting point is 00:42:29 That's insane. So they show him that he was you know what you know what it is look at his before and after what is that highlight for you? That how we net how we think we go Star I was supposed to have lunch an hour ago So hungry after you guys star I was supposed to have lunch an hour ago. Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh yeah, he's been bro. I know he had like 60 days. You'd be fine.

Starting point is 00:42:50 Bro, how wild is that though? That's about a wee here. That's fat. He survived off his own body, which obviously he had a lot of body fat. He was, he was a big dude. Bro, the discipline to stay on that like that for that long. Yeah, and so like he must have made a commitment to himself. I'm gonna not eat until all of this weight comes.

Starting point is 00:43:07 That's exactly what we said. I'm not gonna eat till all of this. He said, I'm not gonna eat until I hit my target weight. I wonder how long you actually struggle with it. You know, at a certain point, it was like, it just- Did he have the education or did he have somebody who's close to him that was like a doctor who said,

Starting point is 00:43:22 this is even possible? Well, monitor your- No, the whole time, that's why it's in the Guinness Book of World Records because he would go in every week and was getting monitored, measured, tested. They would test this blood. Make sure he was okay. Look at his organs for, I mean, this was in 1965.

Starting point is 00:43:34 So it wasn't like, you know, this was when we had some, you know, some okay monitor. So I wonder, I wonder, you know, it'd be really interesting is actually to see his labs with that and I mean, someone that obese, I bet not eating for a very very long time should nothing but positive benefits Right like I you would start to see like his cholesterol levels blood pressure all these things probably Move in a really really healthy direction for a long period time at what point did it hit the curve and come back

Starting point is 00:44:01 I don't know it or did it ever that's interesting Yeah, like was he like bedridden for a long time? No. He's just moving around and not eating. No, he just lived his life. He didn't exercise. He just lived his life and just didn't eat and was able to. Now what's crazy about that is, yes, it's 270 something pounds, over 384.

Starting point is 00:44:20 So on average, how much weight was he losing per month? What is that, Doug? 386 divided by, what was it to? Do we know what happened to him afterwards? Well, he died at 51. So he was 456 pounds when he went in. And he went in and he lost weight and got to 180 pounds. So he lost on average 12 ounces per day

Starting point is 00:44:42 or 22 pounds every single month. So every month he lost on average 22 ounces per day, or 22 pounds every single month. So every month he lost on average 22 pounds by not eating. So anyway, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna come out with a new diet called the Barbeary. Yeah. That's super complex. Water and coffee, yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:56 You save money. You lose weight. It's super easy. Only one thing. Don't eat anything. Wow. I did not know, I didn't know there was anybody even close to that. Did you know, I mean, did you even, would you read about that? I read a long time thing. Don't even think. I did not know there was anybody even close to that.

Starting point is 00:45:05 Did you know, I mean, did you even, would you read about that? I read a long time ago. Oh, you did. Yeah, and then it sparked my, like we were sitting here hanging out and I'm like, oh, shit, I gotta look that up because I'll be interested in bringing up on the show.

Starting point is 00:45:16 But sure enough, there it is. Wow, that's great. Yeah, that's pretty well. Anyway, we're supposed to mention Organifi. I wanna tell you guys that we have a postpartum doula and she's a vegetarian and I've been having her take the organif, I protein and she's like, I wish somebody told me that eating more protein

Starting point is 00:45:33 would feel this good. Oh wow. I mean, a lot of people don't know. I feel like, yeah, there should be, we should be more of evangelists in that sense in terms of like, you know, vegans and then also too, like with like creatine, both of those combined, organize creatine, like, I feel like that's just such a must.

Starting point is 00:45:51 Well, you know why? Because the vegan community pushes this, this over prescription of protein. And so that makes you as, which is such a terrible message because most my female clients doesn't matter what they would label themselves vegan or regular eater homo, or whatever, doesn't matter under consumed protein, especially if they were lifting weights and trying to build muscle and speed up. Oh, I think she was eating like 50 grams of that.

Starting point is 00:46:13 Yeah, so, and so the, so one shake, then you're told that like, oh, you don't need as much protein as they tell you, you don't need as much protein. It's like, that's such a terrible message. So, I mean, go for it, go be vegan, I'm all for it, do it. But then make sure you get your protein up, you'll see a huge difference in how you feel, your muscle, your's such a terrible message. So I mean, go for it, go be vegan, I'm all for it, do it. But then make sure you get your protein up,

Starting point is 00:46:25 you'll see a huge difference in how you feel, your muscle, your hair, all that stuff. And then I have my brother-in-law, same things, Jiu-Jitsu, he lifts weights every once in a while, he's training for tournament that's coming up. And I'm telling him, dude, just do me a favor, do just bump your protein. He's like, aren't I gonna gain body fat

Starting point is 00:46:42 from having the extra calories? I said eat it first and then watch what happens. Sure enough, he's messaging me. He's like, bro, I got, I don't know why I don't always listen to you. He's like, I feel great, I feel great. I'm so much stronger. He's like, I'm leaner. Like, I told you, he's like, how am I leaner?

Starting point is 00:46:54 I said, well, the muscle probably burned the body fat. You're probably eating less. You don't even realize it because you're hitting your protein targets. Sal loves when people tell them that. I know. I don't know why I don't just listen to you all the time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:04 Just listen to you all the time. Just listen to you all the time. Yeah, learn something. Hey, what's happening? There's a company we'll work with called Butcherbox. They deliver grass-fed meats and wild caught fish to your door for incredible prices. If you value your health and you like protein, you like meat, go to Butcherbox.

Starting point is 00:47:22 It's a great company and they've got some giveaways. In fact, right now you can get three pounds of free range organic chicken wings in every box for the life of your membership. Plus, two hours off your first order. If you're interested, go to butcherbox.com forward slash mind pump. All right, here comes the rest of the show. First color is Len from Florida. Len, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how's it going guys? Good, man. How are you? Good. Thank you. Hey, uh, I just How can we help you? Hey, how's it going guys? Good, man. How are you? Good. Thank you. Hey, I just want to start out with the obligatory, you know, thanks for everything you guys do. You guys really kind of helped shape my past couple of months here. I've been listening

Starting point is 00:47:54 for about a little background. I've been listening for about about a year. I've been really trying to take working out seriously now for like the past, know nine months or so. So starting out you know we started out of course with the beach body type stuff I know that's not the best thing to do but listening to you guys started more into strength training. The one thing I did like about the kind of the beach body type programming though was all that the mobility stability stuff. So that kind of led me to get into your priming you know your prime and pride pros. I bought both of those here over the Christmas, you know, or the Black Friday holiday sale. And just kind of some questions about how to work that into my programming. You know, it makes a lot of sense, you know, like if I was

Starting point is 00:48:38 running like a traditional like split type programming, like chest in, you know, triceps, okay, you know, I can prime my chest, I can prime my triceps, it makes for a pretty easy day, but kind of just how that works, with the full body type programming that we've been utilizing now, because I'm in a static now, I ran maps in a ball like before. So I'm just wondering, what does a prime in session look like for a full body type routine with the Prime Pro and Prime Programs? Yeah, you guys have questions.

Starting point is 00:49:10 Well, you'd love good question. Mass performance is, you know, there's mobility sessions program name just like you would see in the Stenic for the focus sessions for the days in between for active recovery. So just in terms of like the easiest way to see how that gets programmed in, you know, that's one example, but, you know, it turns like the prime program itself, that's really setting you up for your individualized needs in terms of like any kind of dysfunction, any kind of restriction you might have joint wise. You're going to be able to pinpoint

Starting point is 00:49:41 that with our tests in there. Yeah, it depends on the person. So when you get maps primed, there's a compass test in there. You take the test and you see pass or fail. And then that'll tell you what your priming session looks like. So my priming session for a full body workout would look different than Justin's or Adams, right? I may need more thoracic mobility, which thoracic mobility is needed for almost every upper body

Starting point is 00:50:04 exercise and even lots of lower body exercises like squats, right? so Based on the compass test you will have your priming session and that's your quote-unquote warm-up. Now prime pro You want to pick your areas of concern the areas that you feel like you need the most mobility like shoulders wrist hands, ankles, hips, whatever and then those you do as much as you want. You pick one or two movements from that area. Let's say it's your hips, and you pick two mobility movements for your hips.

Starting point is 00:50:34 Anytime you have five minutes, get down the floor or use a bench or a chair and do five minutes of mobility. And that can be done as frequently as you want. You don't have to do it before, during, or after a workout. Your personality as far as, you know, are you the type of person that like, oh, give me all these list of things

Starting point is 00:50:53 and I'm gonna execute you all of them or I'm trying to build consistency would matter how I respond to something like this, right? So if you go through the prime, prime is gonna show you like all these areas where you fail, it'll direct you over to these movements or what you want to address. Now, what happens a lot is most people actually fail all three and then there's a whole host of things that they need to do. And then they get a little overwhelmed with all the different things for them to prime or all the mobility we're do and then it makes them kind of inconsistent. Now what I personally like to do or teach people to do is to pick two,

Starting point is 00:51:30 three at best prime movements that make the biggest difference in your performance in the gym and really hammer those home and practice them and practice them and be consistent with it. And then over time we can start to add other ones that also assist it. But so for example, for me, like the combat stretch, absolutely necessary for me to be able to get into a deep good squat. And it's a night and day difference when I do it,

Starting point is 00:51:58 and I don't do it. So that check, I've got to do that. When I'm benching, I absolutely have to, you know, thoracic mobility really prime my upper back so my shoulders stay in place like I want them to be. And so that's a must. And then also doing some sort of, you know, either wall circles or zone one to really prime my shoulders.

Starting point is 00:52:20 So they're stable and in position for when I'm doing upper body exercise like any shoulder presses or just are those are like my three now work 90 90s I I love scorpions I do all these other things too but the the three I've nailed down that make the biggest impact on how well my performance isn't in the gym are the ones that like or I'm religious about and so I tend to teach it that way is like you know pick up a couple of them that you know, you can feel a difference in helps and get really good at being consistent with that. And then over time, start to build in the other ones

Starting point is 00:52:52 if you can if that makes sense. Do you have mass performance other way? By the way, because I know Justin mentioned that. I think you'd love a program like that. Yeah. Yeah, no idea. I just have the prime, prime pro, and a ballic and a static right now.

Starting point is 00:53:04 So yeah. I'm gonna send you performance because performance is Movement focus. Yeah, if you really like mobility and movement, I mean, that's the program for you Yeah, you know, like I'm not really into this to like, you know, like look better I mean, you know, I'm getting 45 years old. I'm more about this how I feel, you know So my my fear is I guess, you know, if I quit doing kind of like a full body type, prime mobility stability type thing, I don't, I know that my areas are my shoulders and my upper back, my thoracic area, but I don't want to lose hamstring mobility,

Starting point is 00:53:37 for instance. So I just kind of was, yeah. So yeah, I totally relate what you're saying, Adam. So thanks for that. Yeah, and I actually just hinted, listening to you even more now, you could perform as is made for you bro. You're gonna love performance.

Starting point is 00:53:51 It is the single program of all the programs that we talk about that I think that you could run over and over and over and really kind of hit. Never, never have it. It's very much geared towards movement and addressing joints, issues and reinforcement. And it's the one that's gonna take you, you know, into your ladder years, like feeling great.

Starting point is 00:54:14 Nice, nice, okay. Yeah. I'll definitely look forward to that. You got it, man. Awesome. Thanks, Lynn. Well, thanks for your time. I appreciate you guys. No problem. Thank you, Lynn. You know, the irony of what he said is, he's like, I just want to feel good, which the irony of that is that's how he's going to look good. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, you trained to feel good in a healthy way, right? You trained to feel good.

Starting point is 00:54:35 You're going to look good. You always trained to look good. You end up not feeling good, which then means you end up not looking good. You know what I wish I would ask him. I wish I would ask him is because it's interesting to me that he bought prime, prime pro, an and Estetic, but not Performance. And when he, like, Performance was written for him. Right. So I would, from a marketing standpoint, selfishly, I'd like to disconnect there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:56 Where did we, where did we do a bad job of not delivering that message to somebody like that? He's obviously aware enough to pick up Prime and Prime Pro for the mobility and stuff like that, reasons, but to miss out on performance when literally he is like perfect for that. So I'm curious to why the other ones and not that one because I think he's going to absolutely love that program. And we do get asked a lot the prime questions of like, because what happens is most people, we will fail that test. And then they go and they see all the exercises and priming movements they should do to address it.

Starting point is 00:55:31 And it can be a bit overwhelming. And with my clients, it was always hard to get them to do the little tedious work, right? The stretching, the mobility stuff, the foam rolling. And what I learned over years of coaching people was, even though I know they need all of these things and that that's ideal, a better strategy is to implement the one or two

Starting point is 00:55:53 that make the biggest difference for them, the one that I can do and they go, whoa, I feel like, okay, let's hammer that. Let's see. No, I love that point and I think it's easiest to figure that out if you have a coach kind of helping you determine which ones, but otherwise, you know, if you're doing this yourself to really just kind of go through, you know, some of those, most of those exercises and really feel your way through it, feel which one has the most impact.

Starting point is 00:56:18 Stick with that one and like you said, simplify it. But really, if you go into prime and you read the instructions, if you fail all three, it tells you what to do. If you fail one, it tells you what to do. It does. So it'll tell you, and then within that category, then you pick the ones that give you the biggest impact. Our next caller is John from California. John, what's happening?

Starting point is 00:56:37 How can we help you? Hey, how's it going guys? Good, man. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. And thank you for all the amazing information you guys put out there. It's been really helpful.

Starting point is 00:56:49 Awesome. My situation has evolved since I submitted my question. So would you like me to stick to my original question or kind of? Let's hear it on that. Well, you can read it. Go off your original and then tell us how it changed. Okay. So, I finished Power Lift. Now it was three weeks ago, but two weeks ago.

Starting point is 00:57:13 And I felt great throughout the program. I started symmetry right after that, and my body hasn't been feeling as good. I have more aches and pains, and my lower back has been pretty sensitive. So I was wondering if this is a common thing or if I should just keep going with symmetry. And yeah, I haven't been sleeping well either because of the minor aches and pains. The evolution has been the aches and pains have gotten better and my lower back feels better, but then I'm experiencing a lot of pain in my kind of trap area. And so I went to see a physical therapist and he mentioned that it might be like a

Starting point is 00:57:58 disc issue, so I'm getting a MRI in a week. So yeah, I'm kind of wondering where to go from there. I obviously want to avoid surgery at all costs. And I just listened to a guy named Shane on the last episode you guys put out and he experienced sounds like similar issues. So yeah, kind of where to go from here. So John, when you do something new, if the highlights imbalances, and the intensity is too high for you and your imbalances, you can start to experience aches and pains. So I'm going to, I think what's happening is you probably, before symmetry, did you train mostly bilaterally, barbells, dumbbells, traditional strength training? Absolutely, yeah. Even before I started power lift, I was always bilateral.

Starting point is 00:58:50 Okay, so like if you balance on one foot or you're doing one arm stuff, like your joints have to stay very stressed. Different than they did before. So what I would say, if you were my client, as I would say, cut way back on the intensity with symmetry, because it's opening things up or highlighting things, and you're probably training too hard for where your body's at in the context of the program.

Starting point is 00:59:15 So you might not get the muscle burn in the pumps that you're expecting, but that's okay. We're allowing your joints and stability to catch up. So I'd slow down and go easier in map symmetry. And in fact, you're already seeing some of those old aches and pains start to get better because you're just gonna start to bounce on it. I was gonna say, I think he's already starting to see

Starting point is 00:59:34 what's gonna happen if you keep going that way. It's gonna get better, I think. But the intensity's probably a little too high for what your body's looking for. And then as far as a discousie, which is concerned, of course, you wanna make sure that you're okay to exercise, but go easier. That's what I would suggest.

Starting point is 00:59:53 Go easier with that. That's hard to tell somebody. It's hard to tell. Well, so John, here's what happens with a lot of people when they go on one side, when they stop bilateral exercise and they start doing one arm or one leg, is that they have a tough time with going lighter and they tend to compromise technique and form without realizing it to try to be able to lift the amount of weight or with the type of intensity that they're used to with bilateral

Starting point is 01:00:21 exercise. If you always bench press with a barbell and and now you're gonna go on a bench or whatever with one dumbbell, and you're used to a certain amount of CNS output and driving, you're not gonna get that with one arm yet, because there's a lot of balance that's involved. Like the limiting factor is not the weight, the limiting factor is gonna be the stability

Starting point is 01:00:39 and the balance. Your form has to be perfect. If your form's not perfect on both sides, then you're all gonna do a strength and imbalances, you're not gonna do a strength in imbalances. You're not gonna correct. You're so strong in other directions. And to be able to now place yourself in a position

Starting point is 01:00:51 where your body has to stabilize and account for a lot more balance. And this lateral type of stability is gonna be completely different in the bracing and the core and everything else of these little secondary muscles are gonna be completely different in the, you know, the bracing and the core and everything else of these little secondary muscles are gonna, are gonna be worked a bit harder than they were, you know, previous to that, which is then gonna, you know, so that's just something to consider in terms of like going to intense, it really will play into like how you feel afterwards.

Starting point is 01:01:20 Listen, this is actually, John, this is actually really common. When you, especially when you, if you would consider yourself or if you identified as kind of like a power lifter type of guy, if you've trained most of your life with that kind of mentality, the way you hit the weights, we're really kind of asking you to completely shift the way you think in the way you approach them. And that's hard. If you've been a consistent lifter for a long time and lifted a certain way, just as like it's really difficult to get a body builder

Starting point is 01:01:49 to lift like a power lifter, who's lifted like a body builder for his whole life. And then now you go, hey, you're gonna do your first power lifter and he does it with all these weird short range emotions. And like he doesn't, you know what I'm saying? And it doesn't know how to drive his legs. Like, I mean, so that the same is true for them.

Starting point is 01:02:02 And so as you approach into symmetry and then probably should do a program like performance to follow it up, like you have to, it's really the mentality as you go into it, which is tough for a big strong guy is to like be obsessed with the control and the movement and, you know, almost look at it in this like artistic way and making the movement look pretty. He said, which is, you got to kind of think it. It's totally different workout. I think too, I guess. I know that sounds really weird and funny, but that's how much you have to shift the way you look at your training now. It's not about how heavy is the dumbbell

Starting point is 01:02:40 that you're holding onto, and it's more of like how perfectly can I make my left side look like my right side, you know, and and keeping it Control through the whole movement and slowing it down. Well, I think even like so you did our maps power lift like even Ben Pollock who is this very accomplished power lifter then you know goes to do a split stance movement right and and just start working on getting better at that That was a big struggle for him. Oh, he was a 700 pound squadron. He's like one of the strongest guys out there. And he was doing 135 split stance and you could see

Starting point is 01:03:11 and it was shaking like a leaf. It was very tough for him because it was totally new. So in other words, to put it differently, John, the limiting factor here is not how much weight you can lift. The limiting factor is how stable you can be during the lift. Your stability will go far before your strength does. So you'll be able to handle way heavier dumbbells, but your stability's not going to be so great

Starting point is 01:03:33 and you can cause yourself some problems. So your technique is the limiting factor. And what Adam said is exactly right. Perfect, perfect, perfect technique, matching right to left, going slow, going controlled, total, total different mentality. That's a hard switch. It's hard to go from power lift to symmetry. That's going to be a very difficult switch because it's totally different mentality. Now, at the end of symmetry, you've got five by five. The last phase is five by five. If you feel amazing,

Starting point is 01:04:03 go into it. If you still feel like, ugh, then I would go back through symmetry and then go into that last phase on that second time around. It's tough when you're the strong dude, man. I mean, nothing's more humbling than, you know, being a guy who can bench press, you know, 315 plus no problem.

Starting point is 01:04:18 And then I'm asking you to use like 40 pound dumbbell presses, like, you know, and you're doing something that you're like, oh my god, I feel like, my wife can do this. This is bullshit. You know, like, you have presses, like, you know, and you're doing something that you're like, oh my God, I feel like my wife can do this. This is bullshit. You know, you have to like, you have to like get rid of that, bro. You have it's and it's tough, man. So it is, but it is common and and and also is actually highlighting a really good thing.

Starting point is 01:04:37 There's lots of of opportunity here for you. And if you can get your, if you can shift the mentality and lift like this for a while, it's really going to serve you. And you'll come back even stronger. So I mean, I think what you're feeling and going through is your body talking to you and telling you like, this is needed. We need to do this. And it's going to suck for the ego for a little bit, but I promise you it'll serve you in the long run. That's right. John, do you have mass performance? Because I'd like you to follow up.

Starting point is 01:05:05 Yes. Symmetry of performance. I do. Yeah, I have symmetry and performance. Okay. So that was kind of my next question is, um, that would be nice. You think semi finish symmetry and because the caller before Shane, he, you mentioned to skip the bar, the bar, the five by five section of symmetry based on his issue

Starting point is 01:05:27 And so yeah, but he had you think I should He I should assess how I feel well Potentially yes. Yeah, potentially. Yeah, he had he actually had surgery You haven't been diagnosed yet if you get diagnosed with her needed disc or something like that Then yes, I would have you do I would have you avoid that last phase Yeah, but if you but if you feel good, go for it. Go ahead and test it and enjoy it and see how it is. But I mean, it would be one of those things.

Starting point is 01:05:52 And I tell you what, why don't we do this, John? I'll have Doug put you in the private forum and then just keep us posted. So as you get further along the program and get closer after you get diagnosed, shoot us a message and they're just tag one or all of us and let us know what the diagnosis was and or how you're feeling through the program. And then we can give you some some tips from there.

Starting point is 01:06:14 Okay. Excellent. Sounds awesome. All right, man. Right on, John. All right. Thank you guys. That's funny.

Starting point is 01:06:22 You brought up that video with Ben. I remember that. Yeah. It was 135. He was a guy who squat seven hundred pounds. He was the strongest guy out there. And it was so hard. And it looked awkward as fuck watch. It did because he's never done that. No, obviously obviously he has the actual force.

Starting point is 01:06:33 He's got the strength to lift more than that. But in that position, his stability was the limiting. You know, and what will happen? I can, I'm visualizing like a power lifter that's used to lifting in some serious way. Then they go to one arm dumbbell press or something like that. And you have this tendency to, I mean, he probably, John probably has a strength to press 100 pound dumbbells over his head.

Starting point is 01:06:54 Easy. Easy, because he's got the strength to do it. But then he's overcompensating to the left or right or here or torquing something. And this, this stabilize, it's supporting. That's right. And then the low back is like firing like crazy. And he's just like, why is it causing this these issues? And it's like, you know, you're approaching the lift like you would. I remember the first time I did a Bulgarian split stand squat. I

Starting point is 01:07:13 didn't do it again for years because, you know, and the jam I was squat with this painful the soreness you get after that. I do. I squat 300 plus pounds in the jam, no problem. And then I go to do a Bulgarian split sand squat and 20 pound dumbbells. 20 pound dumbbells, and it was hurting. I was like, I'm not doing this, this is embarrassing. I guarantee you supporting cast muscles are just really, you know sore.

Starting point is 01:07:34 Our next caller is Christine from Arkansas. Hi Christine, how can we help you? Hi guys, how's it going? Very good. Good. So I am a personal trainer, I currently have a client who is a middle-aged male and he has major instability in his shoulders. So I've been putting him on machines because he's comfortable with having that, how would

Starting point is 01:08:04 you say, I guess, the support and the stability, and it gives him more confidence doing things like that. But if I attempt to use dumbbells or bands or anything of that sort, he just gets really frustrated and just feels defeated. And that's not my goal. My goal is to get him stronger, motivate him, keep him engaged,

Starting point is 01:08:26 but you know, so at what point should I kind of veer away from machines and move into using free weights? I mean, ideally, ideally, you already, you would make him do that stuff, but I mean, that we have to talk about adherence to, right?? So there's this is this is the great juggle for trainers, right? I know what he needs, but I also recognize that he may hate this or not want to do this. And so, you know, that's that's probably one of the greatest challenges as a coach and trainer is, this is why Sal talks a lot about the number one quality of a trainer is sales, and not because you have to reassign him and sell him on more training, but you're selling your ideas to him all the time.

Starting point is 01:09:13 And you've got to find a way to be able to communicate to him, communicate to him that he needs that stability component. The machine is working as a crutch for his issues. Right. So he has this instability problem in the shoulders. So of course, sitting on a machine is working as a crutch for his issues. So he has this instability problem in the shoulders. So of course, sitting on a machine is much easier because the machine is stable, but now we're not addressing the root cause

Starting point is 01:09:34 of what is going on here. And if your goal is to get strong with me and lose body fat whatever his goals are, and you want longevity and you want to feel good as you get even older. This is what we need to do. And hey, it sucks at the beginning because it's just like anything you,

Starting point is 01:09:50 like I don't know what his job is, but I always love to give analogies related to one of their job as if he's like a computer tech guy. It's like, you know, you're wanting to write code it's your first day in school of learning how to do that. And so of course, I could crutch you and have a teacher give you all the answers, but then you're never gonna learn to do it. And so, of course, I could crutch you and have a teacher give you all the answers, but then you're never going to do it.

Starting point is 01:10:07 So this is your body on what we're trying to do right now is and understand that you're expecting to be able to write code right away. Be really good at it. No, you're gonna suck for a little bit. So, yeah. Right.

Starting point is 01:10:18 Yeah, and I think somewhat there's a fear to like, trainers that it's gonna be boring and tedious and that they're going to leave and not get any benefit where your biggest benefit is to be able to kind of include the entertainment the enjoyment of coming in but also like really dive into that like this is a very glaring issue that you can solve and address and not you know, yes, there's good mobility movements. And I'm sure if you haven't already, and you've gone through our prime tests and our

Starting point is 01:10:50 prime pro, and all of these things that we've laid out as free resources or even our programs that can address some shoulder stability issues, you can also load and just start gradually where you have them hold in certain positions in an overhead and just an isometric. Just to get that. Yeah, so he just gets that sort of, he gets acclimated to that top position and then also in the rack position and then also down for, let's say, a suitcase carry. What I like to do is add a bit of movement with that.

Starting point is 01:11:26 While they're also like just focused on stabilizing and making sure that they're reinforcing that. So with a little bit of load, and you can gradually increase that load while the entire goal of it is stability. So it's still something engaging and fun, but now we're addressing that very specific. I love that, like overhead carries would be for that one.

Starting point is 01:11:44 I see Metrix is gonna be the way to go. But look, you have two jobs as addressing that very specific. I love that. Like overhead carries would be phenomenal. I see. I see metrics is going to be the way to go. But look, you have two jobs as trans way. I like talking to trainers because you really have two jobs. Job one is get them to do what's right for them, but job two is more important is get them to want to do what's right for them. Okay. So we need to sell this to him that you have to sell this.

Starting point is 01:12:03 Now there's two ways I can sell this. I could say, hey, if you don't do this, you're gonna hurt yourself and you're not gonna be able to progress and you really need this and that's boring and blah, blah, blah. And that's not selling it to him. Does he wanna build muscle? Christine, what's his goal?

Starting point is 01:12:15 What are his goals? Well, he wants to lose belly fat. So I'm like, okay, stop being a cardio bunny. Stop, get off the machines and start lifting weights. Here's what you're gonna do. This is what you're gonna do next time you see him. You're gonna go up to him, be like, all right, you wanna get lean?

Starting point is 01:12:29 Okay, here's the best way to get lean. I've, I've, I did a lot of research, and I've come up with the best way to get lean. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna build maximum muscle. We're gonna speed up your metabolism and it's gonna make the fat loss a lot easier. You wanna do that? Yes, I do.

Starting point is 01:12:44 Great. This is what we're gonna do. And then you're easier. You wanna do that? Yes I do. Great. This is what we're gonna do. And then you're done. You gotta sell him on what he wants. And you're not lying. That's the truth. This is the fastest, most effective way to get him there. So you can do the negative stuff.

Starting point is 01:12:54 Like, oh, you need to do this. And we gotta go slow. And you gotta crawl before you walk. And he's a guy. And he's not gonna hear that. He doesn't like you. And that's more difficult being a female trainer with a male, you know, he wants to look good. You know, listen. He doesn't like you. And that's more difficult being a female trainer with a male.

Starting point is 01:13:05 He wants to look good. You know? Listen. He wants to look strong. Like, I did. Listen. I go up to him and say, you want to get lean and you want to build muscle? Yes, I do.

Starting point is 01:13:14 All right. This is what we're going to do. He's going to feed off your confidence and you've got to sell him on the result. I really think what I think Justin hit it really the more I hear you and the more I think I'm piecing together this guy, I'm assuming that the kind of tedious, you know, isometric mobility type work is he feels, especially if he's like a cardio move, sweat guy,

Starting point is 01:13:36 is probably like this is stupid. Why am I laying on the ground doing this prone cobra thing and he's probably not enjoying that? I think being able to load him like Justin is saying so he's challenged a little bit strength wise, but then you're really focusing on that stability component. Oh, I see overhead carries. I see overhead carries, and if you've got kettlebells,

Starting point is 01:13:54 that'd be great, if not dumbbells, over a set, and then being very meticulous about how he's moving. Is his core tightened up? Is his glutes engaged? Is he stepping and be real meticulous about how he's doing that as he's holding it. And then just try and get stronger and stronger every week by loading that more and more.

Starting point is 01:14:13 And so you're working on the stability, but then you're also giving him this kind of strength exercise so he doesn't feel like he's lying on the ground and doing nothing. And clients, listen, clients love it. When the trainer tells them what to do and says, just do what I tell listen, clients love it when the trainer tells them what to do and says, just do what I tell you. They love it.

Starting point is 01:14:29 We're so afraid to do that to our clients and it's silly. It's like we're asking our clients, hey, do you want to do this thing? It's okay. No, you don't ask them nothing. John, this is what we're gonna do today. I don't wanna do that. I don't care what you want.

Starting point is 01:14:41 You told me you wanna get buffed, then we're gonna do this. I know what I'm doing. And you know what? They're gonna be like, oh fuck, I'm gonna going to do this. I know what I'm doing. And you know what? They're going to be like, oh fuck, I'm going to listen to this guy. That's what they want to hear. They want you to get stronger. They want you to tell them what to do. I've never had a client ever in 25 years where I would say that

Starting point is 01:14:55 and they would still be like, I don't want, they'd like, all right, I'll do it. And then eventually, after two or three times of me telling them, you're going to do it my way, because you told me what you want and I'm going to get you where you want to go. After two or three times doing that, they stop asking me, especially when they start to see the results.

Starting point is 01:15:08 So remember that, you gotta sell it that way. Sell it that way, you're not gonna have any problems. Okay. Good deal. Listen, you're a trainer, do you have maps prime pro? I do not. All right, I'll send that to you, relax. Oh, I appreciate that, thank you so much.

Starting point is 01:15:22 You're mad at him. I'll send you prime pro. That'll be very valuable for your clients. Yeah. All right, appreciate that, thank you so much. You're mad at him. I'll send you Prime Pro. That'll be very valuable for your clients. Yeah. All right. Appreciate that. Thank you. No problem. All right. You know, just speaking to female trainers who train men, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes they go into

Starting point is 01:15:35 the relationship automatically feeling insecure or not confident because it's a man. I'm going to tell him how he's going to build muscle. He might get stronger than me. How am I gonna spot him? He's not gonna wanna listen to me. They feed off of your confidence, or your insecurity, or your hesitation.

Starting point is 01:15:54 If you're, I don't care if you're a man or a woman, you tell the person follow me, we're doing this. They're gonna, people hire you because that's what they want. They want to follow. They want to feel that confidence. If you hesitate, imagine you go to the doctor and the doctor says, well, I mean, you know, what do you want?

Starting point is 01:16:10 And we can do that. I don't know. I don't know what to do, but if he's like, no, you gotta take this. It's what you gotta do. You're like, thank you, doc. I appreciate you being confident and giving me the answer. Yeah, and I hate pills.

Starting point is 01:16:20 Well, do you want to get better? Yeah, I do. Okay, take the guy that pills. I mean, if I had a doctor talk to him, I would just get to you at ease. I mean, it's the same thing. It's like, oh, I don't like it. I mean, you want to build muscle. You want to lose your body fat, right? Okay. Well, these are the things we need to do. I literally when I would say that literally they would, I don't know if I want to do that. Well, you want to build muscle? All right, then this is what we're gonna do. And I would walk away towards the piece of equipment. We're gonna use and they would follow me and do it.

Starting point is 01:16:41 But they feed off that energy. Yeah, I mean, it's really how you, and it is, this is not a man, woman thing. It doesn't even matter that she's female. It's literally the confidence that she delivers it to him. I've had lots of female trainers that just, they just crushed it. Yeah, and this challenge for trainers is definitely, I saw it in both sexes all the time. It's literally just a lack of confidence

Starting point is 01:17:04 and maybe your abilities or your knowledge or like that. And you got to be assertive. And if you want them to trust you and do it just, I mean, don't be afraid to say this is what we're gonna do. And it's because you told me you want X, Y, and Z, this is the path. Our next color is Kelly from North Carolina. Kelly, how's it going?

Starting point is 01:17:23 How can we help you? I'm doing great. Thank you guys so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. I have been listening for about five months now. And in fact, my kids are tired of me always having you guys on either on YouTube while I'm working out or in the car. So they've said you have to use iPod now. So they don't have to hear it too. But I just wanted to ask you some questions about reverse dieting. So I had been a chronic dieter most of my life

Starting point is 01:17:54 in my email. I mentioned a nickname I had as a kid. So I was an overweight kid. And so having a name that rhymes with belly is not fun. So I about a year ago, I started to really gain a lot of weight. I got to the point that I was just doing so much cardio. I was eating about 1100 to 1200 calories a day. And just was like, I can't stop. I can't lower my calories and I can't increase my cardio anymore. So I kind of found out about the reverse dieting. I got hooked into you guys.

Starting point is 01:18:31 I got the reverse dieting guide. And I had some initial weight gain, which I understood. Like, okay, the guy tells me that you guys tell me that all the time. But now I've gotten to about 1700-ish calories, and every time I try to increase beyond that, A, it's really hard because I'm like full, and I have to eat like crappy food in order to try and get calories in, or I immediately shoot up even more and wait. So I know I'm getting stronger, I've got maps, the RGB, and I completed anabolic. I just finished the first week of performance

Starting point is 01:19:10 and I know I'm getting stronger. But I am also finally being able to kind of monitor my body fat percentage and it's starting to creep up. And so I'm like, okay, am I gaining more fat than muscle? Same amount, because I mean, I trust you guys. If you tell me this is just part of the process, let's suck it up, that's fine. Or do I need to do kind of like mini cuts?

Starting point is 01:19:34 Because I've also heard Adam say, sometimes you do like a mini cut, and then maybe you try and reverse further out of it. Yeah. Kelly, when you, so I'm reading your email, so you went from 1100 calories to about 1700 calories. And during that period of time, gain three pounds on the scale. Also, what happened with the cardio?

Starting point is 01:19:51 Were you doing a lot of cardio before and then not so much anymore? What does that look like? Yeah, so for your recommendations that I've always heard and the reverse dieting, I stopped doing the cardio. I am doing about 12, about 1200 to 1500, 12,000 to 15,000 steps a day. Okay, but you only went up three pounds. Yeah, as you can say, please commend her on what you've actually accomplished a lot more than you probably think you have. Is that true? Is that true? Is that true? You went up three pounds. So I immediately went up three pounds. So like,

Starting point is 01:20:21 you went up three pounds. I went up, so I immediately went up three pounds. So like before I got to you guys, I had found reverse dieting first somewhere else. And as soon as I started reverse dieting, I dropped a few pounds and then I added creatine and jumped up three pounds. And I was like, okay, that's the creatine cool. I went from carbs that were like 50% to carbs

Starting point is 01:20:42 that were more like 30% with appropriate protein. So I was like, okay, that makes sense. But since then I have slowly like I continue to increase. So I'm about 10 pounds more total than I was 8 to 10 pounds more than I was a year ago. And also stronger. And stronger. I think. And stronger. Yeah, definitely stronger, but like the the clothes are starting to get a little tighter. Yeah, well, okay, so first off, you gotta think about, look at where the clothes are tighter. If it's in your butt, you know, in the upper thighs,

Starting point is 01:21:14 then you're probably building some muscle. And you're stronger, so you're definitely building some muscle. The little bit of weight gain that you had when you reversed diet is nothing considering you went up 600 calories. And you got rid of cardio. Yes. That's exceptional.

Starting point is 01:21:28 Now, here's a deal. Okay, I want you to get rid of your scale for a little while. I don't want you to weigh yourself anymore because it's gonna mess with your head a little bit. You gotta give yourself a little bit more time. And yes, gaining some body fat, a little bit of body fat is part of the process. I'd like to see you get up to close to 2,000 calories and then cut from there.

Starting point is 01:21:46 Now, one thing you said though is that you can't eat anymore. You feel like you're stuffing yourself. Is that correct? Okay, if that's the case and you feel like, oh, this is really tough, then it's okay to go on a mini-cut. You can do a mini-cut for two weeks or three weeks and then go back to you in a week. Yeah, or even a week. Now, here's what I want you to do though, or to understand. Don't expect to lose any weight in your mini cut. People go into a mini cut thinking, oh great, I'm going to see some weight loss. That may not happen. What we're looking for is your appetite to reinvigorate it so we could go back into the reverse

Starting point is 01:22:19 diet. Okay. But because you dieted for so long on and off since you were a kid, the reverse diet process, meaning reverse dieting, maybe with some mini cuts, trying to build muscle this entire time, is going to take a little longer than you think. Because there's some theories out there, but some people would say you're your CNS, your body's got a bit of a memory, and it's going to adapt in the negative very quickly as soon as you try and do a cut. So I would slowly work up towards getting up to about 2000 calories

Starting point is 01:22:49 before trying to do a longer than many cut. I want to ask a little bit more. I know you have the RGB bundle. I think I'm reading that you ran through Annabelle already. Are you currently in performance? Is that's what's going on? Yeah, I just finished the first week of phase one. And even in that, like, it was amazing from what my starting strength and antibiotic was to my first heavy week of performance was. So I'm already squatting more than my body weight. I can deadlift close to one and a half of my body weight already.

Starting point is 01:23:24 Wow. Hold on. where did you go from? Strong. When you first started squatting, can you tell me how much weight you were squatting versus what you were squatting? So I was, I mean, I wasn't completely naive to lifting weight, but most of it was like cardio lifting weight because it was like body pump. So I had been lifting weights before. So I was about 120. I was squatting. And you guys are the ones who convinced me to actually go below parallel. So I'm below

Starting point is 01:23:57 parallel. I'm the deepest stuff I've ever been. I've got prime. I've passed all the compass stuff, but I've been working on the ankle mobility. And so like I can get super low with good control. It feels so good to be able to be at like I I've squatted this week. 160. You got way deeper. Yeah, yeah, just so you know, Kelly, if you were my client and you came into me saying this, how shake you.

Starting point is 01:24:25 This is a big way. I was shaking like this a little bit and say, you need to wake up, you're actually doing really, fuck. You're moving in the right direction. And keep in mind, like you've gone up 600 calories. So even, you're going to even hold, your body's gonna hold a little bit more water than it's used to do.

Starting point is 01:24:41 So even the little bit of what you might be seeing is like, oh, I feel like I'm putting on a little bit. Four pounds of that is water. Yeah, a lot of that's probably waterway. The fact that you are as strong as you are, you've increased your range of motion, you've cut your car you out, we've up to 600 cal. I mean, you are fucking winning.

Starting point is 01:24:58 We're doing really well. Let me put this in context, Kelly. You increased your calories by over 50%. So 600 calories a lot for anybody to go up. But in context of the fact that you're eating 1100 calories, doing tons of cardio and you couldn't lose any weight, it was like, that's where you were stuck at. You dropped the cardio and increased your calories by over 50%. That's phenomenal.

Starting point is 01:25:21 You're not just moving in the right direction, you're flying. Yeah, you're killing it and the reason I was asking more about the programming so that is you know, keep trusting the process because I bet as you go through the different phases of performance and then aesthetic you're gonna hit a really novel one that's going to probably stimulate the appetite again. It's interesting when we when we do things that are somewhat familiar for us. And then also when we hit someone's like, oh my God, I've never done these movements. Or boy, this is kicking my ass. And then also when you see that appetite spike up also.

Starting point is 01:25:51 So, I mean, I'd probably be pushing you to be, stay the course. I think you're doing a great job. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't potentially interrupt one week of low calorie just for the mental part of it for you to be like. But don't weigh yourself. Yeah, but I'm not tripping on the scale.

Starting point is 01:26:05 What I see or what I'm hearing from you. How long have you been doing this? How long did it take you to go from 1,100 to now? One year, she said. Is this a year process? This, the reverse diet started in September. Of September? Oh, you're not even.

Starting point is 01:26:22 Okay. Kelly, I'll tell you a story. I had a client who was really, really bad shape in the sense that her metabolism was just in the context of slowing down, which is so wrecked. Okay. It took us a year and a half and here's what happened. That year and a half process, it was kind of like this.

Starting point is 01:26:38 She gained a little bit and then we were just kind of maintaining and maintaining and slowly reversing and getting stronger and getting stronger. And then like a snowball All of a sudden it was like she got ripped her body just she just like oh my god. It's crazy. So I'm eating more And I'm just getting leaner. I don't know what's going on I'm like we have got things working. Yeah, so you gotta have some you started and you're on that you're on that path Yeah, give it some time. Yeah, you're on that you're you're I was hoping that you guys would just like just

Starting point is 01:27:04 Continue to trust the process and I was just getting a little too out of myself. There is, there is nothing I would shake the shit out of you. Yeah, there's nothing that you said here. There's nothing that you said here. You're a loving way. That's how you guys remember you almost got fired. You're a very, very young man.

Starting point is 01:27:17 You shake his clients. There's nothing you said at all that would make me pause. In fact, everything you're telling me is telling me that you're crushing. You're like on the right path. So, so stay on. Do we have time for one more question? Sure. Sure. Okay. So, um, I know you guys have talked about it in the past. The fact that, you know, clinicians are out there giving, um, advice on, uh, exercise and diet. And unfortunately, we don't have a lot of great education on that.

Starting point is 01:27:45 I'm a practicing neurology PA. And I'm very interested. I also happen to have a PhD in neuroscience. So I'm very interested in aging and cognition and how our hardware, our body helps the software in our mind. So where would I go to get good education? Because I mean, yeah, there's like the the guidelines for 150 minutes of exercise. Do you follow Andrew Giberman?

Starting point is 01:28:11 No. Oh, there you go. Yeah, Andrew, you're going to love his content. You know what else, too, Kelly? If you think of the, it's obviously you know this, look, you know this better than I do. The brain is part of the body, right? So think of the hormones and, you know, the cataclysmines and the, you know, all the compounds that affect brain health and how they, how muscle, body fat and activity affect those compounds. So just a silly example would be like glucose metabolism, right? So, you know, that dementia and Alzheimer's,

Starting point is 01:28:43 there seems to be somewhat of a correlation between those and almost like like glucose intolerance or issues, you know, metabolism glucose. Some people call it type three diabetes like the jury's still out on that, but we know that muscle greatly increases or improves insulin sensitivity. So for example, knowing that I would start there. So, what you know about the brain, and what makes it healthy and youthful, then go and find studies on exercise and muscle and body fat, and how those things affect those particular compounds and chemicals. And then from there, I think you'll open up some rabbit holes to where you'll be able'll go down and say, oh, okay, so BDNF, great for the brain. Wow, I just read that BDNF also has effects and muscle. It looks like when you build muscle,

Starting point is 01:29:30 you increase BDNF in muscle tissue. Does that then increase BDNF in the brain? And you can kind of, it'll take you down some really cool rabbit holes. I literally think that's like Andrew Huberman's podcast. Yeah. So if you have it, his podcast, is it called Andrew Huberman?

Starting point is 01:29:44 Is that what it is? I believe so. Or Huberman Lab podcast. Yeah. So if you have it, his podcast, is it called Andrew Huberman? Is that what it is? What is it? I believe so. Or Huberman Lab. Yeah. Okay. You'll geek out on his content, for sure. If that's what you're interested in.

Starting point is 01:29:51 It puts great stuff out there. Awesome. Well, thanks for calling in. Thank you so much for answering my questions. I appreciate it. You got it. It's great. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:30:00 Bye. She's kicking ass, dude. Prussian. Holy crap, she's kicking ass. Bro, sometimes you just don't see it for yourself. I mean, I get, you know what this highlights is what we always talk about is how much of this game is psychological. How much of this is?

Starting point is 01:30:14 99.9. Yeah. I mean, she said her clothes are feeling tighter. I bet you, I mean, how many times you get a few more clothes? Muscle. It's the butt, like, oh, my legs, my pants around here and. Dude, for what she's talking about in terms of like her strength gains with her legs, I guarantee you a lot of it's there.

Starting point is 01:30:27 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And the amount of the weight that she has seen come on with the increase of six, 700 calories. 50% more increase in calories. That's the last one. Had she done that without what she's doing now, you know, in her old way, with all the cardio, whenever that would have been like a 15 pound body fat game. And no muscle gain. You know, obviously I think she was searching just for us to, I think,

Starting point is 01:30:48 reconfirm what she was wanting. So which is good. If that was a client and I was really having a hard time, you would just shake the show. Yeah. After that. After that. I'm sure if I shook you and you still were getting it through,

Starting point is 01:31:04 I might run a one-week cut actually to literally just lower the calories, lower the water and let them see like you're actually way better than you think you are. We just pulled some water out and now you don't think you've put on body fat. And then that would also kick the appetite back up and then we're back to the course, right? So I might do that if I felt like they were really strong. But you'd have to be there monitoring. I worry about that as I told her not to wear, is that she would do that and expect to see all

Starting point is 01:31:26 stuff on the walls. Yeah, it was great. It was great advice. You're right. I mean, obviously it's different when we can be talking to them every day versus not, but she's kicking ass. Totally. Look, if you love Mind Pump, head over to MindPumpFree.com.

Starting point is 01:31:38 Check out all the free stuff that will give you. We're such giving people. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram, my pump Justin, Adam is on Instagram, my pump Adam, and I'm only on Twitter at my pump sal. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

Starting point is 01:31:53 dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin

Starting point is 01:32:15 to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal and I'm in Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review

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