Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2006: What to Do if You Are Having Trouble Connecting With a Muscle, Diet & Workout Adjustments to Make if You Have Hit a Plateau, How to Stay Lean Without Being Obsessive About Food & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live caller's questions, but this was after a 65-minute introductory conversation where we talk about fitness, current events, studies, our lives, and much more. answered live, callers questions, but this was after a 65-minute introductory conversation. When we talk about fitness, current events, studies, our lives, and much more, by the way,

Starting point is 00:00:30 you can check the show notes for timestamps if you just want to fast forward to your favorite part. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this live, email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Ned. They make hemp oil products. So full spectrum hemp oil for things like inflammation to produce feelings of euphoria and zioletic effects.

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Starting point is 00:01:13 That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. www.Mine Pump, use the code Mind Pump and get 20% off. Also this month, we've put three very popular workout programs on sale. Maps, performance, maps aesthetic and maps hit. All of them are 50% off only for the month of February. If you're interested, go to mapsfitinistproducts.com and use the code FEB50 for the 50% off discount. All right, here comes the show. T-shirt time. And it's T-shirt time. Shit, though, you know it's my favorite time of the week. For winners this week, two for Apple podcasts, two for Facebook, the Apple podcasts

Starting point is 00:01:54 winners are Debbie Tast and Sarah B 16. For Facebook, we have Thai, Bowles and Eric Gorski. All four of you are winners in the name of just red to iTunes at MindPumpMedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Look, there's a lot of ways to work out, a lot of ways to exercise your body, but one of them is superior to all the others when it comes to making your body look the best. I'm talking about aesthetics, and that strength training, lifting weights, no other form of exercise allows you to target sculpt your body like strength training.

Starting point is 00:02:31 So if you do other forms of exercise, you may look better, you start to become healthier, but only strength training allows you to target parts of your body, develop them and literally change the way you look. Get you that naughty body. What? Right, guys? you look. Get you that naughty body. Right guys. Not even. I just came up with that. Well, please clip that engine. Please clip that. Not by me. So okay, when you were saying that, I was like, obviously, but I was like, who would disagree or not maybe even think that. But then I forgot there's a lot of people that do like Pilates, what else is another example of somebody in a form of exercise that you do

Starting point is 00:03:14 with the intent of sculpting the body? Or looking the way you, you know what I think about it? Okay. Because a lot of people do stuff to lose weight, right? And that's their main goal. And you can lose weight doing lots of forms of different exercise. What is the challenges is that people look at like top yoga instructors or top Pilates instructors or dancers or swimmers or whatever on social media and they think, oh that form of exercise

Starting point is 00:03:37 is gonna make me look like that. That's not quite how it works. First off when you're looking at the top or the best of the best in each of these categories, you have as a combination of hard work, effort, discipline, they've been doing this for a long time, but also their bodies genetically are great for that particular endeavor. So if you look at the world's top swimmers, you can have a lot of people with long torso,

Starting point is 00:03:59 short legs, broad backs, kind of flat chest, right? Because that's a body type that tends to do well, and of course they train hard and they work hard as well. Same thing with basketball players, football players, and so on. So it's not really a good way to determine how a form of exercise is going to make you look. Really, you want to look at what, how that form of exercise gets your body to adapt and strength training. There's no other form of exercise that lets you target parts of your body. Like if you cycle, you're doing the same thing over and over again.

Starting point is 00:04:26 You're working some parts and not others, right? If you run, if you do Pilates, you are working your body in a particular way, but you're not like target building, target sculpting, with strength training, I can literally look in the mirror and say, I want rounder shoulders, I want better hamstrings, I want, you know, my laths that come out, so my waist looks smaller. I want my arms to look a particular way. And then I can train those parts of my body. I can target sculpt and target train my body. So it's as close as you can get to being a sculptor.

Starting point is 00:04:52 Know the form of exercise lets you do that. So you think it's just they don't have a good understanding of even what they truly want. Or what'll happen, right? They don't necessarily know. They, most people will look at, again, they'll look at a picture of someone who does something a lot and say, oh, that's what I could look like. If I did that thing or the other thing you see is they see somebody and go like, I don't want to look like that. And that's what those out. For

Starting point is 00:05:19 example, like, I know some girls stay away from like crossfit type of training because they're afraid that they're going to have these boxy hips. And it's like, no, those top athletes that are women in the in Crossfit are good at dead lifting and snatch and all that stuff. The boxy hips help because it helps helps the sport. It's not the sport made their hips look that way. And so there's a lot of people that will avoid certain exercises or modalities because they look at the top characteristics or you'll start to recognize

Starting point is 00:05:51 them, you know, in top tier sports because like some of those are advantages. And certainly you're talking about the torso, long torso, like all these different types of, you know, bodies that actually perform better for very specific tasks. So, you know, to attribute that to the training is, you know, something you got to check yourself on. Yeah, there was this really cool picture I saw a long time ago where it had Michael Phelps, right? So he's like, he's the most decorated Olympian, I think, of all time. Definitely the best swimmer of all time. And they had his body, and they had him standing next to, I think it was the world marathon champion, I think. And the marathon champion was shorter compared to Michael Phelps, much shorter, but their

Starting point is 00:06:35 legs were the same length. So Michael Phelps was like, wait, taller, but he's got really short legs, a really long torso, really long arms. The marathon runner had these really long legs, short torso, and that's their genetics, right? And then their training, of course, is also what makes them great, but that doesn't mean you're gonna look like that, right? And again, strength training,

Starting point is 00:06:56 anybody you can look in the mirror and say, I want more butt, I want more hamstrings, I want this, I want that. And then you can go to the gym and the beauty of strength training is there's body part specific? What I think that's so amazing about strength training too, is that you can design having both, right? So if you have somebody who like gravitates towards Pilates

Starting point is 00:07:15 or gravitates to getting in shape with a sport, or what's cool are like loves to swim, like what's cool about having the strength training is the foundation. Like you can build your programming to build the absolute ideal physique for you that you want, and then you can integrate these aspects of that way of training around it.

Starting point is 00:07:39 I had this before we got on. I'm gonna raise my buddy, Brendan. So, you know, he's in incredible shape. He's a little bit older than we are. He's an X NFL pro. Yeah, X NFL, he has, what was he, he was tested as one of those, the one, one percent gene or whatever that he has.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Yeah, he's just, he's a piece. He's a piece, he's an incredible shape. And he's always trying to get a little bit bigger and more muscular and stuff like that. And we were texting back and forth and he was like, yo, you see him, two or five or nine. He looks great. I'm like, yeah, I said, you know, if I could just get you stuff Do know the sock mom exercises. I mentioned what you look like We won't tell anybody

Starting point is 00:08:15 No, I I share that I'm busing his box guys it he he could run him I think he's running a mile like five minutes something dude. I mean just yeah, he's a bad ass, right? I think he's running a mile like five minutes something, dude. He's a super off-screen. Yeah, he's a badass, right? And he was laughing and he sent me back a voicemail, you know, being like, you know, and basically rattling off the stats of how bad ass he is and all those things. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm busting your chops. But one of the things that like, I mean, if he was my client, one of the things I would,

Starting point is 00:08:40 I would get him to understand also is that I can give you all those things and still build a program around strain training. I would get him to understand also is that I can give you all those things and still build a program around strength training. So I know it's not either or it's not like you I'm going to make you get bigger and more muscular and therefore you're not going to be able to run or not going to be able to do these things. You won't be athletic. I can still keep you athletic and and still have a a strength training focus program and

Starting point is 00:09:04 build more muscle or get you bigger than what you currently are right now. It's like this idea that you have to train all this crazy endurance stuff, if you want to be good at just the athletic pursuits, it's like no, we can program a lot of, to be versatile in all directions, to be able to jump, to be able to run, to be able to get a good mile.

Starting point is 00:09:26 You can acquire all those skills, and then also strength training. But it's like the people that want those skills, they gravitate towards this programming, that is just like the whole programming is all centered around just endurance, endurance, and endurance. And don't put it all together.

Starting point is 00:09:42 Well, name one form of exercise that is more versatile than strength training. It literally, strength training can be used to compliment any physical pursuit. You can't say that for any other form of exercise. Literally, I could take strength training and I can apply it. The reason why we could do this, by the way,

Starting point is 00:10:01 is because it's so moldable. There's, I don't know, 10,000 exercises. There's five different ways to do each one. There's ways I could strengthen for explosive power, strengthen endurance, traditional strength, stability, correctional exercise. So literally, it doesn't matter what you do, you can add appropriate strength training. And the programming here is real important, right? Because you got to have the right programming.

Starting point is 00:10:22 You can add appropriate strength training and it'll make what you do better. There's no the form of exercise that does this. It's literally in a category of its own when it comes to exercise and training. In fact, it's the primary way people rehab their bodies even. You go to a physical therapist, what they're doing with you

Starting point is 00:10:41 or forms a strength training to rehab your body. And all the cognitive benefits as well, which never gets highlighted in our industry. In terms of being able to keep your mind stimulated and all these like receptors and being able to go through and teach your body all these new movements, it's basically its own language that you acquire as you get more proficient a lot of the different skill of weight training and you're constantly stimulating it with information so it keeps your cognitive abilities sharp. Oh, it's the proprioceptive, so proprioception is knowing where your body is in space.

Starting point is 00:11:19 Because strength training is so multi-dimensional, so moldable. Right, if you do a sport or a form of exercise, it typically tends to have the same movement or movement patterns that are repetitive, right? So like running, cycling, swimming, tennis, basketball, football, whatever, it's like similar movements over and over again that are that sport. Well, because strength training is, it has form and technique, but it's also formless. It's formless in the sense that I can do, I can move any plane, I can rotate, I can, you know. It's patterns, interruptions constantly,

Starting point is 00:11:51 which, you know, you get into that sort of, which people love cardio and I understand why, because you can really get into that zone where you're, you know, you're lost, like you're getting that endorphin experience out of it, because it becomes mindless. And it's almost like a form of meditation for a lot of people when they are able to just, you know, get into that repetitive kind of rhythm. Versus like,

Starting point is 00:12:13 strength training, like it's just constantly having to account for all this different types of students. It's got to be the most commonly used form of exercise across the board for all sports. Like, can you name any other form of exercise that's used in almost every single sport besides strength training? No. I can't, right? It's incorporated in golf, basketball, football, swimming. Whatever the sport is, strength training applied appropriately.

Starting point is 00:12:40 Well, that's relatively new when you think about it. That was not always the case. That's when you look at some of the things that have attributed, you remember there was a Ted Talk we shared a long time ago on the show, way back when I forgot the name of it, but it talked about all these crazy leaps. The democratization of sports. Yeah, something like that. I think that was the name of the fact.

Starting point is 00:13:02 Oh, you think that was the name of the Ted Talk, maybe Doug can look it up and see if we can find it. You might remember what I'm talking about right? I do. And he was talking about performance improvements over the years and and he was showing that it had more to do with like the track and the equipment. Yeah, and then science with nutrition and I mean we we've just like human steroids. Yeah, human. Yeah, exactly. What blew my mind about that, that was the point I was making, was that like, I, if you would have asked me, you know, athletes today versus athletes 40 years ago,

Starting point is 00:13:31 and we look at all the numbers, we're blowing everything out of the way, what would you attribute the most to? Oh, performance enhancement drugs, for sure. David Epstein, we actually had him on the show, I believe. We did, yeah. We did. And what's the name of the tattoo?

Starting point is 00:13:44 Our athletes really getting faster, better, stronger. Do we have him on the show, I believe. We did. We did. Yeah, what's the name of the tattoo? Our athletes really getting faster, better, stronger. Do we have them on the show? We do. Yeah, go away. I don't even remember. A long time ago. Wow. It was like, that must have been year two.

Starting point is 00:13:54 It was a long time ago. Wow, you know, that would be an interview I'd rather do now, like when we're better. I know. Because that's, he would be an interesting conversation. I don't remember the color. What's your favorite color? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:03 It's red on some question. We're probably asking some bad shit. But I think I think that's just so interesting because I mean, at least my buddies and I who all like argue and debate sports stuff all of time, that was a big argument for the longest time of like what is, what has made the biggest difference? And we've just, we've come a humans are exactly the same as what they were 40 years ago and is their their abilities were pretty similar in fact there's some examples of some older athletes that did some even

Starting point is 00:14:32 more impressive things than today. So it's not that we've evolved. It's that we've gotten much smarter with our approach and straight training and recovery are the two I would say have really evolved the most with athletes. I mean, that was just not, you have athletes now like the LeBron James and many other of these top athletes. It's been a million dollars a year. I'm a recovery.

Starting point is 00:14:53 And people don't realize this up until the 80s, up until the 80s I'll say, except for football, even football though, if you go earlier than the 80s, like 70s, 60s, up until the 80s, athletes were encouraged not to strength train. They were actually told, don't go to the gym and lift weights because it makes you muscle bound.

Starting point is 00:15:12 It'll reduce your performance, your athletic performance. This is still a big thing, even in baseball, that we were fighting. Oh yeah, as we went out helping out the high school team, it was like, we were constantly battling with the high school baseball coach. Oh, that's so fun. Because yeah, it's like, don't do any with the high school baseball coach. Oh, that's so fun. Because, yeah, it's like, don't do any of the upper body stuff,

Starting point is 00:15:28 you know, like, anyways, yeah, in some sort of... What's that for? Yeah, I was like, we're, well, we also went on this, you know, it's kind of like, okay, we weren't doing it at all. And then we recognized the benefits of it. And then there was the over application of it.

Starting point is 00:15:45 We're just doing it wrong. So I think when you hear a coach that seems like they're dinosaur ages, they were part of the wave who probably adopted it, but adopted it incorrectly, and then saw negative effects from it, and they're like, don't do that, you know, like didn't do any of the skill and conjunction with the way over training. Or it was just bodybuilding.

Starting point is 00:16:03 Yeah, exactly. And they had the end of bodybuilding. Yeah, exactly. And then the end of the bodybuilding. Yeah, they're like, you're just gonna bodybuild. It's like, no, there's specific, again, it's so moldable, it has to be done appropriately, but when you apply, because all strength training is, is adding resistance to movement in the attempt to gain strength, okay?

Starting point is 00:16:18 And also possibly muscle, depending on your sport. That's all it is. So it can be bands, it can be bodyway, it can be, you know, weights, of course, and machines. It can be lots of different ways that you could do this. You can do strength training to some extent just by explosive movement without any resistance at all. But if you apply it properly, there's nothing more versatile that'll make you better at everything. And then as far as making you look good, I mean, in terms of aesthetics,

Starting point is 00:16:48 okay, forget athletic performance and movement also, just in terms of aesthetics. Oh, God. Like, you can't. Nothing comes close. Nothing comes close. No, Mayo female, I don't care who you are, what your goal is.

Starting point is 00:16:57 You take your twin and they do any of the form of exercise and you give me the other twin. That was your opportunity, man. Did you see this? Yeah, whoa. That's what I'm saying. Well, but there's really no other way. I do. Man, I just be like, look at this. Yeah. Whoa. That's what I'm saying. Well, but there's really no, there's really no, there's no other form that so many of you

Starting point is 00:17:10 would make that case anymore, right? I brought up Pilates and not the rag on Pilates at all, but that's one of those ones that I still hear, like, I have people that I've talked to that are like, oh, you know, I love the way it makes my body look. And I'm just like, if you think that makes your body look really good, imagine if you actually strain train because you could really sculpt the body. So it's not that it doesn't at all is that there is a, which is just like the point I was making about my body is like, it's not like what he's doing isn't not working athletic points.

Starting point is 00:17:37 The proof is in the pudding. He's in incredible athletic shape. It's just like, I could give you what I know you want. You want to be a little bit more jacked and more size to you, but still be that super athletic guy as the ages. Like, I have the answers for you. It'll take one, it'll take a little one day of me. Just one day of that. Yeah, just, I just need to adjust a little bit of your, your strength training and the, and the way it's programmed. That's all right now.

Starting point is 00:17:59 So the circuit style of training is obviously benefiting kind of where you are right now, but we could get a little bit more that size. He's got such mesomorphic genetics too that that guy. Oh, yeah. He could be a distance runner and he'd be built. Like he just, the guy just must have. Yeah, that's why I'm like, and I told him, I said, I'm just, you know, I'm just messing with you, but the trainer of me would love to get a hold of him, Jannex for a little

Starting point is 00:18:20 bit. Oh, just, let me, let me get a hold of that programming for like six months and show you that. I'm so frustrating when regular, like a regular guy like me meets somebody like that with those kind of, I mean I've had people like that work for me, not very many. Yeah, the ones that like good McDonald's and they're just like shredded. Dude, I've had trainers work for me and I'm just like, wow, dude, he's so crazy jacked and I'd watch him and be like, he eats pop tarts and cheeseburgers and he works out once a week.

Starting point is 00:18:45 What the heck is going on here? I'm over here busting my butt to try and look at. You know, do you think those same people, or do you think this is a different gene that allows you to even get away with, let's say, less appropriate training for what you're trying to obtain? Do you understand what I'm saying? So like, do you think that's the same kind of gene

Starting point is 00:19:06 or do you think it's different? Do you think there's like a gene for people that are just, man, they are just blessed. They touch weights, they build muscle or whatever. And is that same gene responsible for the people too? Like they could also train terribly, not eat, okay. Yeah, when you have those muscle building genetics that are on that 1%-

Starting point is 00:19:23 That just for you to get away. I mean, you ever look at pictures of like like Phil Heath right he was mr. Olympia for a while when he played basketball His arms look like mine. He was monster. Yeah, when he was young Yeah, this is also this is also what makes it very difficult for people to Point to a person as an example of what they're doing and how it's worth it because there's such a large Individual variants on how you respond? I mean we talked about how bodybuilders need very little calories of what they're doing and how it's worth it. Because there's such a large individual variance on how you respond. I mean, we talked about how bodybuilders need very little calories.

Starting point is 00:19:49 There's people who can get, which is also why you hear people be like, you don't have to eat that much protein. It, I only eat this much. And look at my, like, there's some people that probably assimilate protein need less of a requirement than other people do to build muscle too.

Starting point is 00:20:04 So just because we have these these general truths and nutrition of like, oh, this is the best ratio that remember, this is a collection of people over a study that are all individual. This is what they come out to be the average or median. And therefore, that's what we put out as the science. But the truth is, there's there's two ends of the spectrum. And everybody in between and if you get somebody who is an incredible responder That needs very little of this the very little of the protein He very little of the additional calories, but and just need to touch the weights Doesn't have to be good programming and they respond then you have the other person who has to do

Starting point is 00:20:37 Almost everything perfect and then they barely see any any response from it And then everybody in between and recognize that you're somewhere and you fit somewhere in that spectrum. And the person that you're using as an example. That's not fair, yeah. Yeah, it could be so different on the spectrum. Yeah, I like some people like Herschel Walker. You guys ever see this guy? 50-something years old.

Starting point is 00:20:56 Like what is going on? Orani Coleman, Ronnie Coleman was top 10 Mr. Olympia, pro body builder, natural, natural. Then the story goes, and this was collaborate. This is, I mean, this is- Him and Flex, pro bodybuilder, natural, natural. Then the story goes, and this was, this is, I mean, this have been flex, right? Flex is what introduced him. Flex Wheeler and Flex tells the story, and so does Ronnie Coleman. Flex, we was like, hey, man, if you just did some steroids,

Starting point is 00:21:14 like you would totally win. That next year, he showed up on stage, and everybody was like, this, who is this me, and you won, you know, and then one seven times in a row, whatever. So those genetics are out there. Unfortunately, most of us don't have them. That's the shoe for it. Speaking of strength training, Dr. Andy Gap and post this study, that people were getting kind of confused

Starting point is 00:21:32 about and excited about. So, and you guys saw this, you sent it to me, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna pull it up and read kind of the title of it, because people were like, oh my God, this is crazy. It says, males do not gain muscle strength, muscle strength in size with the resistance training faster than women. In fact, females often see faster progress

Starting point is 00:21:52 in upper body strength development. So this is a sex differences in resistance training, a systematic review and meta analysis. So this was a great study. Now people were like kind of confused by this. Like, wait a minute. Like women build more muscle or like what's going on. So I kind of want to explain this because I'm sure this is going to make its rounds. So it's relative size and strength to their current size.

Starting point is 00:22:17 So because women are smaller and men are much larger, relative to their size. They will gain a greater percentage of muscle in a particular period of time than a man Well, this is also true for a smaller man versus a larger man So if you're for example if you have 10 pounds of lean body mass you gain one pound you gain 10% more lean body mass If you have a hundred pounds of lean body mass and you gain, you know, five pounds It's five times as much muscle, but it's less. It's a much smaller percentage. So that's the reason why, because people were confused about this.

Starting point is 00:22:51 So women do gain great muscle and strength. They're just as a percentage. This is also kind of a selection thing in terms of women preferring more lower body centric workouts and maybe highlighting development. I imagine that was versus that bike. Because then if they were to focus a bit more, because that being a novel stimulus is being divided. It's a made analysis.

Starting point is 00:23:14 There's a lot of things. There's got to be some of those controls in there also. That would be silly because you're right because they would gravitate towards one. I think what the most interesting about the study that highlights more than else is that the potential for women is equally there. That's the real takeaway from this is that, you know, a lot of women sometimes can be discouraged that you're gonna see results that they can't build muscle

Starting point is 00:23:36 or it's so difficult for them or they've been told. So, you know, the testosterone is we build muscle. You know what the biggest channel, firstly, yes. Of course, men can build much more total muscle. They start out with more muscle, of course. But here what the biggest channel, firstly, yes, of course, men can build much more total muscle. They start out with more muscle, of course, but here's the biggest challenges for women traditionally, or generally speaking, when it comes to building muscle. One, they're typically more apprehensive at consuming the right amount of calories and

Starting point is 00:23:57 protein to build muscle, whereas guys tend to be more, they're more ready to do so, or they try to because they're trying to gain, whereas women are a little bit more apprehensive. So they tend to consume too little, and they're also not as ready to lift heavy. Right. And so those two things play a huge role. When women eat the protein, eat the calories,

Starting point is 00:24:17 lift heavy, I mean, you see phenomenally. I wonder if, I wonder generally speaking to, would you say that women are challenged more often hormonally than men are too? Meaning that if you just took 100 random men off the street, a hundred random women off the street, do you think there'd be a greater percentage of women in there that have imbalanced hormones

Starting point is 00:24:41 or issues with their hormones compared to men? And even the men that have issues with it still have testosterone and beneficial muscle building hormones. So there's two things to that. One is that men across the board for the last I think six decades have been seeing a lowering of testosterone. Correct. So men are actually seeing some pretty gnarly things when it comes to testosterone.

Starting point is 00:25:08 Now on the other side, women's hormone levels seem to be more sensitive to things like stress, lack of sleep, and things like fasting. Yeah, same low calorie. Very careful. Yeah, because a woman's body, obviously they evolved to be able to carry a baby. And so when their body senses too much stress or overwork, it's go, let's become infertile. We can't support a baby. So I've had female clients, for example, fast, do fasting.

Starting point is 00:25:37 And then over time, we start to get these stress effects like hair loss and like they have too much cortisol, you know, the story body fat weird, and that's like, we can't fast anymore. Whereas men tend to respond better to the stress of fat. You get where I'm going with that question though, right? Like because I mean, birth control plays a role too.

Starting point is 00:25:54 Right. Right. So that was my point. 100 off random mastery day. And this is a thing that this is the problem with studies like this, right? Because there's probably a lot of women that are reading that and be like,

Starting point is 00:26:03 man, that cannot be true. I don't feel that way. And they're probably right because they probably fall into more of a more general or average, if you were to select people randomly and not control them for a study and go, okay, let's get a hundred women who have good balance, or good and balanced healthy hormonally,

Starting point is 00:26:20 and let's put them in this study, and let's do the same for men. And then, oh, look at that when everything's all equated for, they actually can build muscle just as easily as men. But the truth is, that's not the average woman potentially, right? I'm saying, is there potential that when you would grab a random hundred off the street, that there would be a greater percentage and how much greater of a percentage would that group of a hundred women

Starting point is 00:26:40 that you pulled in a hundred men pull, that would have in a hormonal imbalances, which play a huge factor in the ability to build muscle and lose body fat. I think, yeah, I think you're making a point with that. I think too based off of the episode we did about like why women should bulk and what kind of response we got from that. It's like, you know, how often is that a conversation or something that women are actively seeking is to, you know, go higher in their calorie intake.

Starting point is 00:27:05 The typical under-eater chronic dieter is a female. Yeah. You typically don't see that when you're not gonna build well in that state. Yeah, so when a woman's like, I'm gonna lift weights, her goal is usually to lose weight. And so she's afraid of eating or fueling her body appropriately to build the muscle.

Starting point is 00:27:23 Whereas a guy, even if you want to lose weight, you know, you know, where you see that men, where you see that in men is when men have lost a bunch of weight, because they were really overweight. Yeah. They have a fear. Then they become chronic under eaters, right? So if you've met somebody who had to lose 50 to 100 pounds and they actually finally did it, right?

Starting point is 00:27:41 For whatever means, they did it. Whether it was properly or improperly, more often than not, it's improperly where they cut hardcore calories and they do lots of cardio. And then they are become chronic under eaters because in fear of going the other direction, so they're constantly keeping themself in this crazy deficit. You know, I'd love you guys input on this.

Starting point is 00:27:58 In my experience, the, what the average man and average, what so average male average female client within a year, and I say average, so they're probably working out two to three days a week in the gym consistently. They're not like perfect about their diet, but they're eating better. So these are people I've worked with, okay?

Starting point is 00:28:16 The average woman I could get to build about six to seven pounds of lean body mass in a year, and the average male usually around 10 to 13 pounds of lean body mass in the first year and the average male usually around 10 to 13 pounds of lean body mass in the first year. Would you guys say that that's similar? I mean, average people. I mean, I think that's a pretty fair. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:33 But here's, I don't generally speak in, yeah, I would probably say, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, to be honest with you, it's crazy. It's been so long now, and there were so many people that, that number sounds fair enough

Starting point is 00:28:45 that it's not like it definitely wasn't something crazy. It definitely wasn't no 20 pounds there putting on there. But I mean, when you look at like your client base, especially if you include the first half of our career, I mean, over the course of a year, a lot of my clients didn't see a lot of results. Just be honest. I'm talking about the back half. I mean, I'm not looking at the back. I'm results just be honest. I'm talking about the back half. I mean, I mean, the truth is, I mean, it's this,

Starting point is 00:29:09 even if you're a good trainer, right, which I would consider myself the back half of my career, the adherence to, to, consistent consistency and diet and training is so, so rare. That's hard. That when, you know, so it's actually hard to remember what that looks like.

Starting point is 00:29:26 If I were to bring an average out, I'd say it would be incredibly low and bad because the average is, there's so many more people that I guess the median, right? Because the average would count like a lot of the people that would. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's impressive.

Starting point is 00:29:39 It's the bringing it to the depression. It's, it, well, I mean, you're right. So this is what, I don't know about you guys. I mean, you guys actually, we're very rare. I'm very proud to get those transformations that were powerful, you're right. So this is what I don't know about you guys. I mean, you guys actually train. We're very worried. We get those transformations that were powerful. You guys have probably actually trained more clients than I have directly, right? Indirectly, if you count my years as a fitness manager, indirectly, I had, you know, hundreds,

Starting point is 00:29:59 thousands underneath me through all these trainers, but you guys probably trained more one-on-one people. I pretty quickly quickly I was over it. And it was part of that was that. It's the same reason why when, on the business side, when people ask me why we don't do, the mastermind group thing also, it's like low hanging fruit shit. It's like, you know what, I have a really hard time with,

Starting point is 00:30:19 and I don't know what this is. I'd like to say it's my integrity. I don't even know if that's true or not though. Is that I have a hard time selling ideas to people when I know what the failure rate is. It's, and I just gotta be honest. I'm challenged. I'm challenged.

Starting point is 00:30:34 You know, you're saying that though too, that I 100% that was always in the back of my mind. I'm not breaking through, I'm not breaking through. And this is why I reduced my client's all down to like a few. Yeah. The higher end model because I just felt like I wasn't doing as much as I could. I just changed my expectations.

Starting point is 00:30:51 I started to look at all the other ways that I was helping these people. They're showing up. They're happier. They feel better. Yeah, they haven't lost any weight yet because that's tough and it's hard for them to change their diet. And then I was honest, I would tell people when they they hire me, I know you wanna lose 30 pounds,

Starting point is 00:31:07 it's gonna take a long time, some people never do it, you know? But here's what we're gonna do. So that would be very honest. And then if they did lose it, it was like this great surprise. So I pivot to coaching trainers do it. So I pivoted over to like, I'll teach them how to do all this.

Starting point is 00:31:21 I can do it. I don't know what to do. This is what I tell people. But I mean, I love this, right? This is what I love about this is that it's like, we can just continue to give all the information and experience and knowledge that we've acquired over all these years.

Starting point is 00:31:35 And there's no expectations attached to it for me, which I love. I love that. I love this. I'm gonna say, give you everything I know, you know what I'm saying? And so with that, and then you go do it as you, you go do it as you please. I'll hold you through the other. I'm gonna say to give you everything I know, you know what I'm saying? And so with that, and then you go do it as you please. You go do it as you please.

Starting point is 00:31:46 I'll hold you through the open. Yeah, I'm not hired. I'm not being paid to make sure you're accountable to all of it. I just, here you go. You go do what you love with it. It's not funny and it's more effective. It's way more fulfilling too, because then we get all these like, you know, life callers that come on.

Starting point is 00:31:59 It's like, oh my god, this is, then I'm like, oh, I feel so good. This is why, I mean, this is, this is why I have so much respect for coaches and trainers. It's like, I can't think of another job where if you have a 50% fail rate, you're crushing. Like if you're a trainer, baseball, and half, that's a 300, that's even more fun. If you're a trainer and half of your clients eventually develop long-term success.

Starting point is 00:32:25 You are crushing it. You're like the most successful, one of the most successful trainers in the world. That's how tough it is. I mean, that's my appreciation for. I mean, half of your people are in the front. For the sport of baseball, it's one of the things that makes it so unique.

Starting point is 00:32:37 I guess you could say basketball there, but basketball is even a higher shooting percentage. It would be considered really good. Yeah, baseball, if you're batting 300, you're a killer. Imagine what do you think about that? What a tough mental sport? Like, it doesn't get enough credit for the mental game that it has, it's like, you are going to get to the play

Starting point is 00:32:55 and you're gonna fail. Most of the time, yes. Seven times at a 10, if you're lucky, most of the time you probably fail eight times. Like, that's, you know, like, that takes a lot of, well, I would've, that would've been I would've been argue training's harder because you're dealing with people. So you're not striking out. It that's, you know, like that takes a lot of mental discipline. I would even argue training is harder because you're dealing with people.

Starting point is 00:33:06 So you're not striking out. It's like, oh, sorry, Mr. Johnson. And I just, you know, there's nothing else but... You're not just dealing with your own emotions. You're dealing with their emotions too, right? That's why I tell trainers, I say, you know, rule number one, it's all your fault. Rule number two, don't own any of it.

Starting point is 00:33:20 Like you gotta do both. If you're gonna be successful at this, you know, really tough. Anyway, I wanna tell you guys about the, we are here in the future. I just read something the other day. The future is here. Can you look up that protein for me? I heard about it. So yesterday I did our meeting with our some of our staff. And I tell, I tell our team, if you guys ever come across something that you think would be interesting to bring up on the show,

Starting point is 00:33:44 a topic idea or whatever, let me know. Oh, this came from them? Yes, came from them. Oh, I love that. I think it was Margaret. I think it was either Robert Margaret that brought this up. This, no sponsorship or anything like this, I'm not advocating for the company. I don't know if it's good product.

Starting point is 00:33:58 I just thought this was crazy. Vegan way protein. Is that possible? Okay. When, when, when, when, when, when, like, what is the definition of what? When they said that, I was like, wait, how's that possible? I said, it's animal free, not vegan. Animals.

Starting point is 00:34:10 So it's animal free. So it's animal free way protein. So you couldn't call it. I know this is very confusing. It's way, it's animal free and it's not vegan. They literally make it. Doug, if you scroll down and tell you how you make it, I'll say from strawberries.

Starting point is 00:34:24 It smells like animals. No, it'll tell you stuff right there. How we do it? Read that right there, Doug, if you scroll down and tell you how you make it, I'll say from strawberries. It smells like chemicals. No, it'll tell you stuff right there. How we do it? Read that right there, Doug, where the molecules are on the right there. What they do is they take microflora that are given with an exact copy of DNA corresponding to cow's milk protein.

Starting point is 00:34:39 Infermentation tanks, the flora grazes on flora food and converts it into animal-free milk protein. In the final step, the flora is filtered out, leaving pure animal-free way protein that is identical to the protein found in cow's milk. Is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is, is it, is it, is, is it, is, is it, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is, is it, is, is it, they take bacteria. No, they take bacteria. You have a weird thing. And they modify the bacteria. I thought they get a bad. Okay, this is confusing to me. No, they modify the bacteria, but they did, but they get the bacteria originally from cow's milk. Did I hear you like? No, that's what it sounded like. You're trying to construct no. Yeah, it's exact copy of the DNA. So they take bacteria. Okay, so they're, it's

Starting point is 00:35:23 through crisper technology, whatever. Okay, so they're, it's through crisper technology like whatever. Okay, so they're cloning basically cow's milk. No, no, no, cloning, cloning. Okay, no, I don't think cloning is right. Okay, but you know, okay, copying. Yeah, copy. Okay, they're copying it. You, you still need the animal milk though for them too. No, for the 90s.

Starting point is 00:35:41 Nope, you don't need anything. Cow's could disappear off the face of the earth and they'll be able to make a way protein. So they take bacteria, they insert DNA into it to make the bacteria create the amino acids, the protein. So it basically changes the... Yes.

Starting point is 00:35:57 Oh, interesting. Yeah. And now you have way pro... Well, isn't that pretty much what a probiotic does to our guts? It goes in and it actually does it modify the bacteria? Is it just populate new healthy bacteria? No, no, no, no, no, this is totally different. This is like, what's our company that we work with?

Starting point is 00:36:11 Seed? No, for alcohol. Oh, zybotic. Zybotic. Zybotic is bacteria that's been modified. Right. This is bacteria that's been modified. So now it produces way protein.

Starting point is 00:36:21 Hey, does it not look exactly like they hired magic spoons company to do their, absolutely. It looks exactly the same not look exactly like they hired magic spoons company to do their job? Absolutely. It looks exactly the same. It looks so much like magic. Now, so if you're a vegan, right? Now, like real, okay, I'm not going to say who they are. I'm not going to say real vegans. Vegans, I did say real or fake. Vegans who are consistent, who stay vegans for life, if you look at the data, are people who actually believe in the betterment of animals and the wherefor of animals. This is why they do it.

Starting point is 00:36:46 People who become vegan because they think it's healthier, they have a fail rate like any diet. So, vegans who care about animals, don't want to harm any animals, there's protein now that they can have way protein. What is this? How crazy is this? What's the psychology around why some people are attracted to become activists? To become activists?

Starting point is 00:37:04 Yeah, do you know? They need purpose, probably. You're just guessing. I'm guessing. Can you search that for me? Why do people become activists? Yeah, I mean, there's got to be a psychological thing that causes you to want,

Starting point is 00:37:15 to all of a sudden feel this desire or need. Well, we saw it before. You know, it's striking for me, right? Or what's prompting this right now for me. I watched the Pamela Anderson documentary last night. So, what was I have to do with it? She, well after everything went really bad for her when that video was stolen, they went viral,

Starting point is 00:37:34 like it totally flipped her life upside down and like they, so really, it's kind of a sad story when you see kind of her rise and fall. And one of the things that like reinvigorated her career or her like purpose or whatever was she decided to use her character that they were basically kind of mocking so like that to become an activist for PETA. And up to that point, she was like not vegan, none of those things like that. And she read something or did something that made her sound to me like she needed a sense of purpose and meaning. Yeah, well, that's why I'm prompted to ask this question

Starting point is 00:38:07 because it, I thought about, I was like, that's really interesting, right? Like this is not a person who like her whole life was like, we went to watch that. Thought about like saving animals lives and like that. There's just something happened in her life. And then it triggered her to become this activist. And then there's some sort of probably a feedback loop

Starting point is 00:38:23 that's happening psychologically for them to like, oh wow, when I did this, this felt really good. And so I'm going to do more of it and keep going. Like, I'm sure, yeah, there's some instances of trauma or things to that might spark them to want to make a change or a difference. You got anything from me, Doug? Yeah. So it says those who find personal meaning in current events are inclined to speak out for a cause. Individuals are more likely to feel a personal connection if they see themselves as part

Starting point is 00:38:49 of a community affected by an issue. So that makes sense, right? She's been ostracized by most people so that she found a community that would adopt her and bring her in. They love her because she's already got leverage and power because of her name. And so it becomes this beautiful. She's struggling so cool. She's got a sense of purpose.

Starting point is 00:39:05 Now Jordan Peterson talked about this when we watch them talk. He talked about how movements have religious undertones. Now the ones that tend to be parasitic are the ones that don't have the complete story. That don't paint the good and the bad. They just show the bad or whatever. And then it's unbalanced, but I mean, that's what it is. All right, more cool science stuff.

Starting point is 00:39:24 I've been reading about fat loss in cannabinoids. Did you guys know that people that use cannabinoids on a regular basis? This is cool. Every time you say cannabinoids, I can't help but think of avoidinidinolid. Oh, that's older than that. I hate when I try and use that.

Starting point is 00:39:38 I messed it up, I don't know. Dominoes, Domino's pizza. God, they're gonna bring him back, you guys know that? No, they did. They brought him back to the board. They brought him back like a year ago or whatever. Did I miss that? Yeah, I thought you talked about it.

Starting point is 00:39:49 In fact, I think we brought it up on the podcast. I think we did. Did you forget your introduction? This was plea peptides. Yeah. Can we come up with an acronym like BCAD, you know, for just like pre-P. Yeah, no, it's J-P-J-P.

Starting point is 00:40:02 J-P-P. Just in J-P-P. Yeah. Justin, J-P-P-P. So, are you seeing this now in supplements? Is that what you know? Well, no, we'll also check this out. And so, this is at risk of selling, you know, cannabinoids as fat loss. So, we're not gonna go there, but it is interesting

Starting point is 00:40:17 that people that utilize cannabinoids on a regular basis tend to consume more calories. Okay, well, that's not surprising. They tend to stimulate appetite. But they're also leaner. They have lower BMI's. So this is like this, and this is well studied. So I look it up and I've seen all these studies on it

Starting point is 00:40:33 and it's like this paradox. People use a lot of cannabinoids, consume more calories and yet have lower BMI. The theory is that the CB1 receptor, so this is what a receptor that cannabinoids attach to. Cannabinoids CBD doesn't attach to the cannabinoid receptors, but it definitely modulates them. THC obviously, and there's a plethora of cannabinoids in the hemp plant that activate the CB1 and CB2 receptors.

Starting point is 00:40:58 The CB1 receptor plays a role in energy metabolism in the body. So they think, speed up the metabolism. So cannabinoids speed up the metabolism or or they don't control for how high these people are. They thought they ate. Yeah, they really did. Wow, actually, I'm pretty sure I had a whole pizza. Yeah, I'm gonna report that. Well, I don't know. Anyway, we work with a company called Ned that has full spectrum employee like stress. Not saying it helps you provide fat. We'll look up the study.

Starting point is 00:41:33 Great, commercial like that. It is kind of weird. We look at that. You know what, I'm really interested. We have a, when does the Chris Williamson episode go, Doug? Yeah, so this one goes out on, I think tomorrow. Oh, awesome. So this would be cool.

Starting point is 00:41:49 I'm really fascinated by that. What's it called the region beta paradox that he talked about? I think that's a really interesting conversation that I've never really heard anyone talk about before. So he explained. Many people get trapped in. Totally. So the way he explained, many people get trapped in. Totally. So the way he explains that he tells such, he uses such a good analogy. He says, imagine that there's something that's a mile away.

Starting point is 00:42:13 So it's close enough to walk. So you walk a mile to your destination. And let's say that takes you 30 minutes to get there. But now imagine that that same destination is two miles away. So like, as too far to walk, let me get in the car. So now you drive there and only takes you seven minutes. So the paradox is you get somewhere faster that's further because you're using a car. And the examples he gives are like,

Starting point is 00:42:33 you're in a relationship, it's not great, but it's not so bad that it forces you to leave. So you stick around. But if it just got worse, you'd leave and then turn your life around and get into a better relationship. So it's called the region beta paradox. And I think a lot, I think a lot, I mean, I can remember a time in my life.

Starting point is 00:42:49 I think I've mentioned it before on the show when the time in my life, before I left 24-hour fitness, I would say there was a good three to four years. I was stuck in that paradox. I was content with the amount of money I made. I liked what I did. I liked being in the gym. You all remember that environment. It was a fun work environment, but deep down in the back of my mind, I knew I wanted more. I knew I wanted to do much more, but I was contenting. I didn't, there wasn't enough to shake me up. And to be honest, I'm very grateful for the stuff that had happened right before I left

Starting point is 00:43:29 because it was enough to kind of rattle me and run around. And some happened right before? Yeah, so it was in combination. So like I had a, and it probably took this, both these things happening. We had, like the seventh compound plan change since I had worked there, right?

Starting point is 00:43:44 So by the way, a compound change is code for, we're gonna pay less. Yeah, we're, like the seventh compound plan change since I had worked there. Right. By the way, a compound change is code for, we're gonna pay less. Yeah, we're taking money out of your paycheck. That's right. Well, and here's the thing that I will give 24-of-fitness their flowers for is they, they actually, every time they change the compound up into this point, they still left a door

Starting point is 00:44:03 open for the top, top performer to still go out and get his money. Right. They made me work harder and I had to go do some other things, but it was still the opportunity was there. Like, they made it and what they were what they were continuing to do is just like, all right, if we're going to keep paying these people this kind of money, they're going to have to do this, this, this, this.

Starting point is 00:44:20 You know, we can't do this in this. What eventually happened and what was really the straw that broke the camel's back with me was they put a ceiling. It didn't matter. How much I did or how much I sold or how well over goal. It kept it. It kept it. They put a cap.

Starting point is 00:44:36 To a guy like you. And that would have killed me too. Yeah, I mean, it's like taking a limb for me or something. You know what I'm saying? I was no longer fully completely more. So I was already there and then I get somebody offering me more money than I've ever made in my life to go and pursue this medical marijuana field

Starting point is 00:44:53 that I knew nothing about. I knew nothing about. But you didn't even smoke weed at this time. I did it, I did it. I didn't. In fact, that was kind of an anti-wee guy for sure. So, could I- Hold on, did you tell, I never asked you this.

Starting point is 00:45:04 Did you tell the people at 24 fitness what you were gonna do? I didn't not only tell them, but the first canvas club we opened was right down the street. Across the street. Yeah. You know those medical right there

Starting point is 00:45:15 and say, I'm treason of crossing part of it. That was our first club. Oh my, were they like, so I used to go back and forth. Yeah, I'm leaving fitness, you're gonna go sell weed. Yeah, well, you know what happens. It's very, very, very told you this story when we were, this is, remember, I was completely green to like weed. Like it, so I'm still like easy my way into trying it

Starting point is 00:45:32 and how I feel. And I was at the, I was getting, we were just starting to build a store up. People, vendors were coming in and dropping off samples for us to try and stuff like that. And I am running this club, so I'm gonna try these things so I can communicate about them, learning all about them.

Starting point is 00:45:46 And so I would try all these different strengths. This guy comes in one morning with these teas and coffees and hot chocolates, all these pre-packaged stuff, and tells me the dosage that's in there, so with that, I said, listen, I'm really sensitive to this stuff. You know, is this high dose load?

Starting point is 00:46:02 Oh no, no, no, it's very, very mild. You probably won't even feel it. Maybe a little bit if you had like this one or that one or what that. So I decided to try it. And at noon, I had to go back and do a talk at 24 of fitness. And I got so fucking high. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. Still bit the talk? Yeah. I can't tell you. I have no idea. I said, and nobody was the wiser, but it was so like inside the anxiety that was my, my, my drips of sweat off my palms. I was so like nervous and, and it felt like it was the longest talk of my life. And I thought I rambled and mumbled and just, it was up there with like one of the most,

Starting point is 00:46:45 you know, awful experiences that I ever went through. But yeah, I was, so yeah, I was, I was going back. But if it wasn't for the combination of someone offering or ridiculous money and I just recently got that news, also actually, we had a new GM came in. So I was working with this girl that was relatively new the company we adopted her from Circuit City when they did that whole merge.

Starting point is 00:47:09 So I now have a partner. So at the gyms, GM FM and OM were partners. It was like the three of us ran a club together. And I always got along with my GMs. And so at that, and here I get this person who's an outsider because they come from another company, and maybe in circuit city, she was really good. She just didn't know shit about fitness.

Starting point is 00:47:30 And then she was trying to micromanage me and because she wasn't in, she didn't. She's not in your, you're not exactly the most political computer. Oh, man. And I had a reputation in the space if you've been there for a long enough. So I got the respect for my peers,

Starting point is 00:47:44 but if you didn't know who I was, who she did it. So she comes in like all authoritarian, not knowing her shit. Yeah, so it took all of that to finally rock my world. And then of course I look back. Now one of the best decisions I ever made in my life, although scary and difficult,

Starting point is 00:47:59 not necessarily like necessary, it could have stayed there. So I mean, how many people get trapped in this place physically, emotionally, in relationships, in work? I immediately think of all the cubicles out there. Yeah, like what, it's that comfortably numb, as they call it, right? Like you just get in, you check in,

Starting point is 00:48:19 you do the nine to five, you go home, and it's just like, you're getting paid just enough to keep going, but you're just not really motivated to look for another job because this is the safe thing This is where everything's like controlled. You know how many startups like that now where these amazing companies that Happened because of recessions where people got they lost their jobs Yeah, and they were brilliant, but they were you know like this they were comfortable or whatever they lost So like all right, I'm gonna start a company. I'm already fired, let me just take this big risk.

Starting point is 00:48:47 It's crazy to think that, and the whole idea of the paradox is that, you know, something negative or worse happening to you would actually be better. Yeah, that's the, that's life, man. That, it's crazy to think that you, if you were in that position that you technically should be wishing or praying for, something traumatic or bad to happen to you to kind of sh- It's crazy to think that if you were in that position that you technically should be wishing

Starting point is 00:49:05 or praying for something traumatic or bad to happen to you to kind of... And wake you up. How about this? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, many times I think those things happen and then we instead of using that as a sign or motivation to move you in the right direction, we take the victim role. Hey, I said, I'm from me or poor me versus like, oh, it's a sign. I need to move you in the right direction, we take the victim role. Hey, I said, for me or poor me,

Starting point is 00:49:27 my son, I need to move my ass. I mean, my severe gut health issues that I had in my early 30s that literally were terrible. It was a year of tell. If that never happened to me, and when it's happening, that's the thing. When you're in the middle of it, you don't think, oh, this is good for me.

Starting point is 00:49:42 You think this sucks. This is terrible. But if that never happened to me, I would have never pursued wellness and health the way that I did after. I was a meathead up into that point. I would have never moved in the direction of the voice that you hear now on the podcast.

Starting point is 00:49:58 Had I not gone through that health crisis? Yeah, you wouldn't have started eating organic food. No, I bring that, because you guys see that video from Whole Foods. Talking about Whole Foods. Yeah, it's like on what is this? ABC. It was like some piece that they were talking about actually their brand.

Starting point is 00:50:13 It was like 365 organic. I think is there. So a lot of the frozen, the frozen vegetables that they get are directly from China, and which is not regulated specifically. And it says organic. And there's same guys of how they regulate organic foods here. And so people are like, wow, I didn't know. It was very sneaky,

Starting point is 00:50:35 because you look on the back of the label and you could see direct from China or like process in China or made in China. And people started to be like, so what is this? I didn't know that that was Whole Foods. So I read about this. I don't know any specific brands because so you guys know this would be doing this long

Starting point is 00:50:52 enough. The organic market was so small when I was back in the day when I was training that in order to find organic food, you had to go to an organic grocery store and Whole Foods was the only place. You couldn't find organic foods at Safeway, Lucky, Albertsons, anywhere else. Now they have whole sections and it's a huge market. Costco didn't have organic food. And then it totally exploded.

Starting point is 00:51:15 And the market demand was so high that American organic producers couldn't meet demand. So they import the hell out of these foods. And you're right when it's coming from a country like China, they don't have the same regulations. No, no, no. And it's also open the door because it's so competitive now for all these shady gray areas. Like you ever see, you gotta be careful with grass-fed beef even, that it's grass-finished.

Starting point is 00:51:40 Grass-fed grass-finished. It's very in the categories that that would be. Yeah, they can categorize it as grass-fed beef if they fed it most its life beef. But yeah, for the last two, or whatever I think is the last two weeks, or a month or whatever that, they fatten them up,

Starting point is 00:51:52 like creating my pump in them full of grains and stuff. No, maybe look this up. I think grass-fed technically means that they only have to be fed grass for like, it's a small, it's not even, it's not even a week or something. Yeah, it's not even like half their life or something like, or maybe half their life, it was something small.

Starting point is 00:52:08 And then after that, they feed him. And remember, when you're in these for profit businesses, that they're going to skate the lines as closely as possible. Just like I always talk about the 20% room for air on labels, it's like if you are naive to think that you're a weight loss type of food, right? Like you advertise you advertise low calorie high protein, you're not going to lie by 20% because you're technically not quote unquote lying because that's part of how they they

Starting point is 00:52:39 allow that room for air. So it's like they're going to skirt those lines. What's it say, Doug? Yeah. So cattle that were started on a grass diet, but have either received supplemental grain feed or are finished on a fully grain based diet or considered grass fed. Okay. I'm not seeing it.

Starting point is 00:52:55 But what constitutes grass fed? Yeah. That's what I got basically. I did. Yeah. I'm trying to find the details here. Interesting. Speaking of weird stuff, what do you guys think of that video of Paul Pelosi? Okay, so here's, going back on this before I get into that,

Starting point is 00:53:10 grass fed standard is built on two key criteria, namely a minimum of 90% of an animal's diet during their lifetime on a fresh weight basis. Whatever that means, it must be grass or grass-based forages. Okay, better than I thought. Anyway, Paul Pelosi. Okay, so this whole thing happens, right?

Starting point is 00:53:28 I'm even more confused. Some guy, super confused. Some guy attacked him with a hammer in his house called it. Wait, lay out the beginning, Sal, for me, like how, like, when it, how did they portray this initially? Yeah, he calls, he called Capitol Police, but the regular cops show up.

Starting point is 00:53:43 And the story was that he got attacked by some crazy person who drove them to his house. Right in the bathroom and he called or something like that. And he got hit by a hammer and it was attacked at whatever. And so then you had like these conspiracy theories were like, actually it's his lover and you know, they're covering something up and then the other side is like,

Starting point is 00:54:01 no, this person was attacking. Anyway, they showed the video, the body cam video from the cops. And it just made me more confused because they opened the door. First of all, Paul Pelosi opened the door. So they're frozen together, right? Just looking at the car. And he's like, he looks like he's almost holding the guy's hand.

Starting point is 00:54:15 And he's got a drink in the other hand. Like he's got an alcoholic beverage. He's got no pants on. He's still had ice. He's got a button up shirt with no pants and barefoot. And a mixed ring. And he's holding a lot to look like a beer or something. And then the other hand, he's like gingerly holding his wrist.

Starting point is 00:54:34 He's not like gripping, he's like, like almost like he's holding his hand, but he's holding his wrist. And that dude has got a hammer and his other hand. And when he answers the door to the cops, he says like, hey, what's up? Hey guys. And then there's this weird awkward moment

Starting point is 00:54:50 of nothing happening. And then also the dude with the hammers are swinging and paul below. He went for it, no doubt. Now there's video of the guy breaking into his house with the hammer. So he did break in. It's just the weird, like, you open the door that way,

Starting point is 00:55:02 plus he wanted capital police, he didn't want the regular police. So there's like, oh, it's just seemed like they're waiting for the police to show up to then all of a sudden now we're gonna do the drama. But it is that. Like, I was so, again, like, to me, it's just like so many questions that it's hard for me

Starting point is 00:55:20 to just take it as just, oh, this guy broke in. And part of me is like, maybe he was like, trying to keep the guy calm. So he's like, let me just go see who's at the door, and let me just see what's happening, right? So maybe that, I don't know though, if I do broken my house on the hammer. She's still here.

Starting point is 00:55:33 Yeah, if a guy broke in my house with a hammer though, I don't know if I'd answer the door of the cops, like, I'd be like, hell, man! You know, I'd run out of whatever. Yeah, exactly, like, oh, you're here, huh? Yeah, but I don't know. Something. It feels totally staged, but what I can't wrap my brain around is why?

Starting point is 00:55:48 Oh, yeah. Like, what is the desired outcome of staging something like that? I don't think it was staged. I think there's more to the story, though. Obviously, there's more to the story. I mean, you have to hold the intriguing. Well, it feels like they are... What crazy is how this will get between the two then, whatever that was?

Starting point is 00:56:04 What's crazy is how this will get brushed the two then, whatever that was. What's crazy is how this will get brushed under the rug as like no big deal. And no one will be talking about it in a week, right? And I just think it's like, there's something here that is very obvious if you watch that video. Like this, that is not, there's nothing normal about that situation. And to just be like, oh, he was like a random attacker

Starting point is 00:56:22 and that's what happened. And then he's now, you know, doing 30 days in jail like that. And then we just, we're on going about our business is just, I don't know. I know. I watched the video like 10 times. I'm like, why is he holding a drink?

Starting point is 00:56:34 Why is he holding his wrist that way? Why is he smiling? Yeah, Katrina didn't want to watch it. I made her watch it. I was like, you have to watch this and try and explain to me what you see her. She's like, what the fuck? This is weird.

Starting point is 00:56:43 Yes. Like, I don't get it, dude. I have something to do. I can't figure this out right now. Oh, do that. Those videos on YouTube, the Aussie Man commentaries. Yes. I want him to do a commentary on it, that would be fantastic.

Starting point is 00:56:56 What are those? What is he saying? That Aussie man, he like, there's videos playing and he speaks with a real strong author. Oh, that's the guy who does hilarious. Every once in a while I see those go viral where they're doubting over like the, a lot of times they do it with them,

Starting point is 00:57:09 like senators and stuff like that. Is that who you talking about? No, no, no, that's bad lip reading, but I love those things. Oh, that's my favorite. I like those are great. Those are good. So, like you have to really, to be able to, looks like that's what they're saying.

Starting point is 00:57:23 Like I wonder how long it takes, because like you probably, yeah, you watch is it without the sound looks like that. Yeah, it looks like that's what they're saying like I wonder how I want how long it says because like That's right. Yeah, you probably like yeah Watches it without the sound and all that and he's just probably looking at it and like just probably writing notes of like It kind of looks like he said turkey or whatever Yeah, do you do you think that person has like a lip reading skill going into that? And that's why he can do that because that would think about what the skill would take to do that. To actually script something without spending hours. We're in that skill. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:57:47 Lippery? Maybe he's deaf. Oh yeah, that's true. That would actually be interesting to look into that because you have to have a skill to be able to listen to it silently and then come up with a funny weird kid that's very observant. You know, he's just looking at some really

Starting point is 00:58:01 absurd scenarios. I agree with Justin. Oh, you don't think it's weird enough yet? with Justin. Yeah, I think he's worthy of that. And creative. Yeah, I don't think it's. I've known kids like that. Oh, no, I bet he's got a lip or he's still. You know, kids like that.

Starting point is 00:58:11 Yeah, those are just like, dude, this was the past time of mine. Like we would sit on a bench and we would like portray, you know, characters for these people that walk by. And we would like make up stories for them and like, you know, boy, so we, we do that all the time. I did. Hey, let me take a look at that.

Starting point is 00:58:26 But you could treat it like first for a day. So she's, she loves people watching, right? So she's like, she's like, my favorite. So do I. Well, I think it's part of the gym, right? When you work in the gym, like that was one of my favorite parts. By the way, gym, like companies figured this out. They used to make the cardio face the TVs.

Starting point is 00:58:39 Yeah. New gyms, the cardio faces the weight room because people prefer to watch people instead of the TV. It's way more entertaining. Yeah. So what I, Katrina and I would always do this. We did this for years when we first started dating

Starting point is 00:58:49 and we would be out on dates and so on that. And we'd see another couple and we would pretend to have their conversation. Yeah. So she would take on the role of the chick guy, take on the role of the guy and we would be watching them in the corner of our eyes but then we'd been trying to act out with her.

Starting point is 00:59:02 Have you guys ever done this? This has happened to Jessica and I, like watching TV shows and I think might even happen with their stuff. Have you guys ever done this? This has happened to Jess and I, like watching TV shows. And I think it might even happen in public once. Have you guys ever had an argument with your significant other by proxy? Like in other words, you're watching a TV show and the couple is getting their arguments. Something that's kind of in course. And then you take the guy's side and then she takes a girl and then you end up

Starting point is 00:59:20 getting a fight. Or the TV show. I hate that so bad. That happened to us. It's like paying attention to Linda. and then you end up getting a fight. Or the TV show, I hate that so bad. That happened to us. It's like paying attention to Linda. Well, she's acting crazy. Maybe she's acting crazy on that.

Starting point is 00:59:31 Whoa, he's not paying us. We'd go back and forth. It happened a couple of times at the end. I was like, this is so stupid. Why are you over TV show? That's what you think? We're fighting over a reality show. That's like we're gonna get a fight because it's some dream.

Starting point is 00:59:44 Your wife has the night before. That's what I'm saying. You know, Katrina is the when you're getting a fight because of some dream you know, your wife has the night before. Oh, that's sad. That, you know, Katrina is notorious for that one. I'm gonna tell you. She gets mad at you for three times. She has very like vivid dreams. I mean, I told you, she has like the dream book. They all mean some of the, so there'll be times

Starting point is 00:59:57 she wakes up and she's just like in a bad mood with me. And I'm just like, what is wrong with you? She's like, I had a bad, I had a bad dream about you. And like giving me me this dirty look, like I did something on my way. Wait, see, you're gonna be mad at me because of your crazy history. How's that work?

Starting point is 01:00:14 You did it in my dream. I know. Speaking of dreaming, the goal juice for more GANIFI, I just started using that again before bed. So relaxing. It does help with sleep. using that again before bed. So relaxing. It does help with sleep, it really does. Very, very relaxing. Now you do that like in a, like warm it up.

Starting point is 01:00:31 Yes. Yeah, that's what we do. Yes, macadamia nut milk. Okay. Yeah, and I have one of those, one of those things called this little swifter or swifter, or swifter,

Starting point is 01:00:38 or swifter. You guys are in the bathroom. Swiffer is what you do, you're flour. No, you see the swifter. Yes, swifter. You know what though? That sounds like a should be. I know. Somebody was like, I'm gonna No, you see the swifter. Yeah, you know what though? I that sounds like a should be I know somebody was like I'm gonna start a company a swifter

Starting point is 01:00:49 It's a brand. Can you you can you sweep my drink real quick make sure it's all twisted Real good, but no back in the day. We had that not milk warm about an hour before bed Ah, do you know what their top products are sold have they their green juice? I know that's one of them. Yeah, I know that's one of the No, they've is that because they've just had it the longest oh their top products are sold. Have they? The green juice. I know that's one of them. Yeah. I know that's one of them. No, they've, is that because they've just had it the longest? Oh, I was speculated. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:09 It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during.

Starting point is 01:01:17 It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. It's got the mocha during. the time because my entire fitness career, I knew I under eight vegetables.

Starting point is 01:01:25 And so I was wise enough to attempt to do green juices and they always tasted like yeah, great. Yeah. I remember I remember like literally drinking these green juices and being like, fucking the terrible vegetables are better. Like I'll just eat the stupidest vegetables because I didn't like vegetables right? I had those like sprout thing. It's like you're literally just eating a hedge.

Starting point is 01:01:45 They were, it was terrible. And then when we got introduced to Organified, they were honestly the first green juice that actually tasted good. I was like, not bad. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's the stuff that they would make you eat, not Organified, but like the greens, stuff like the sprouts

Starting point is 01:02:02 and stuff, like when I would eat that, I just think to myself, like this is what people would eat when they can't find food. What am I to cow? Yeah, like if you're starving, this is what you would eat because there's no food. Otherwise, why would you eat this? What's that? What is that that?

Starting point is 01:02:14 They used to do this at smoothie bars where they would juice something for you and it's a dark green. Oh yeah, wheat grass. This grass is good. Yeah. What nasty. Terrible.

Starting point is 01:02:23 But the corell apparently in it is supposed to be really good for you because it mimics or it looks like red blood cells. That's the selling point. I never got benefit. Is the chlorophyll the stuff that you had me take in way back in your COVID days? And that was that chlorophyll?

Starting point is 01:02:35 Oh, that's chlorine. No, no, no, no, what was the thing? Those droppers, those illegal droppers you gave me. Yeah, that's, wait, what was that? It was a chisler.

Starting point is 01:02:42 It wasn't it for one, it wasn't now. It was a chlorine dioxide. It was chlorine dioxide. Told you chlorine. Oh, that'll see. It was for one, it wasn't now. It was chlorine dioxide. It was chlorine dioxide. Told you chlorine. Oh, that's a chlorophyll. I don't remember. Yeah, it was very green. But you don't dare say that because you'll get,

Starting point is 01:02:53 I'll get a lot of heat now. No, I just, that's like more of a possibility. No, you know what, let me see here, don't go anywhere. But chlorophyll, by the way, you know, if you have heavy metals, that's good for getting those out of your body. That's just... I ran a poll because I have the Mind Put Media thing today and I was just interested in all of them. You didn't get the Mind Put Media page?

Starting point is 01:03:14 A little bit. No, no, I just, okay, so I was just curious. Like, I asked about how many people got to vaccine. This is what I brought up the other day about. Now that all a lot of stuff is coming out, I was voicing my frustration with my friends and family that like haven't like come forward and like apologize or even admitted like, I kind of regretted it or whatever, right?

Starting point is 01:03:36 And so I was like, you know, okay, that's my own personal experience. And maybe that's just a few people in my life. I wonder if that's the, you know, the average person who pays attention or listens to us or what that. So I did a poll and they're just saying, like, how many people got the vaccine? How many got it?

Starting point is 01:03:53 Didn't get it? Regret it and don't regret it. And the number that I was most interested in was the, how many people got it? And then if they were not regretted and not regretted it it and 24% of the people that took the poll in our audience got it and of the 24% 26% of those people regretted it. Wow, full quarter. Yeah, yeah. And only only 6% admitted that they didn't regret it.

Starting point is 01:04:17 So that was a very, very small percentage of people who got it that follow us. Obviously this is interesting bit of a bias. You know what I'm seeing now, and I don't know, this is what I hate about politics, is that the politics, politicians, political parties, use the media very effectively. So I don't know what to believe half the time. So you know what I'm noticing now?

Starting point is 01:04:39 I'm noticing all these articles from right wing, right? Propaganda, right propaganda, you know, I guess outlets, that every day they'll post a new young person that died randomly. Every day. So-and-so, 24-year-old died suddenly. So-and-so, 36-year-old died.

Starting point is 01:04:56 And I'm like, you know, young people die all the time. Are they doing this to make people, of course they can participate in a way? Of course they can participate in a way. You can see a method. That's why they're just as guilty. You'd numbers from when we were in, you know, the, cause that's the thing.

Starting point is 01:05:09 It's like you, you want like this emotional response. And so to drum that up, sometimes you got to. One of the, one of the best things that ever happened to the radical right or Fox news is when the crazy left comes out with some bullshit because then they can counter it. Now they have, then they're playwright. Of course they playwright. I have family members that are, you gotta be able to see that too.

Starting point is 01:05:31 This is okay, so I don't love this. Well, maybe I do, because I'm kind of an asshole this way, but I have family members that are like super conservative, and I mean, super to the point where they love the propaganda side of it. And they'll share stuff like that all the time. Oh my God, another kid died.

Starting point is 01:05:48 You know, 17, another person died. What's going on? I'm like, there's 300 million people in America. This happens every day. Are you sure that you're not manipulating you just like? No, the other side, manipulate. It's not this, are they okay? That's how you know you're getting manipulated.

Starting point is 01:06:03 100% I know. Meanwhile, they're all having lunch together after lunch, hey, you guys want to hear a stupid study I love studies that are as long as it's really stupid It's just it's just it's just sometimes I look at studies and I really did you really fun this? Okay, so there was a study I thought I was about most studies just so you know there was a Adam like what are studies? Dinosaur's aren't real hey, I don't you know, I just, do you think dinosaurs were real? Yeah, no, I don't.

Starting point is 01:06:26 Actually, there are bunch of bones that were, that they put, have you ever seen the thing? You know what, Jason, Jason, Jason, Justin put me down in the rabbit hole because I heard him make a comment. Wait, are you really? Can you put this on me? Yeah, he made a comment about something

Starting point is 01:06:37 and I'm like, I have never searched this before. I have never taken it. Where are you going, guys? That is how you can arrange dinosaur bones to create like like actual animal other animals And yeah, and so there's this there's obviously conspiracy theorists that are like no You know all he did was take a mixture of a bear and this and that and then you put this bone for that And you you put them all together and then you get this like dry Serzo femur't fit on any other animal.

Starting point is 01:07:05 Yeah, it's possible. That's what I'm saying. I do not believe that, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know before you get a bunch of, but so here, so dumb study, okay. So they did a study and they said, you know, what can people do to prevent themselves

Starting point is 01:07:19 from cheating? So people who have a tendency to want to stray, like what's an effective thing they can do? And so they, the study concluded that if they put themselves in the other person's shoes, they were less likely to steal. Stupid. Oh, like what?

Starting point is 01:07:32 That's the conclusion. Imagine if you got cheated on, who I would have liked that. Mark that down. I think we found the secret everybody. This is a study. Love them. The dumb study.

Starting point is 01:07:43 Who you have fairly? Really? Oh, I got a YouTube page this time. So this was shared to me by Rob, who works for us. It's a YouTube page for kids. We has a little, he has a two year old. And he says, you gotta check out this YouTube channel. It's really fun. My kid loves it.

Starting point is 01:07:59 It's songs for littles. It's a YouTube channel for little kids. He said it's really great. I watched it for two seconds. Looks cool, but I haven't really looked at all things. So I'm gonna caution with that because Katrina's the one who's stricter about this than I am is like, we don't really allow max on YouTube

Starting point is 01:08:17 because how easily they can, cause the ads and everything. Ads and how they can, real quickly they can be watching a child's children thing and because it's connected to a dinosaur that's connected to Jurassic Park, the movie, which is the connected to an actor that's in there is now connected and then before you know it,

Starting point is 01:08:33 you get this adult content that they're looking at. That happened to my daughter. She was on YouTube when she was little and I was looking at what she was watching and it was, it was superhero stuff. So Spider-Man, Superman, Wonder Woman, and they were tying up Wonder Woman, almost like BDSM.

Starting point is 01:08:49 They were tying her up and doing stuff to her, and I'm like, what the hell turned that off? That was like purpose. Do you remember that? Yeah, the Spider-Man guy, yeah, they filmed it specifically to get in that category. Yeah, I mean, I'm super, Katrina's got me all paranoid about them now,

Starting point is 01:09:03 and I saw this. This shenanigans they need to clean up. Let's just put that one. Yeah, of all the platforms, it's actually the one that I'm most weary about with him being on because of how quickly you can go down the rabbit hole. Plus, I also read and they're trying to figure out how to fix this in the comments of videos.

Starting point is 01:09:20 There are people that will post links and places to search for, you know, like not good stuff. Like they'll put like code words and there's a link. So, like people looking for like, you know, underage sexual content or whatever. We'll go to a video, look in the comments, that's where they find the stuff. So there's big investigation going on about that.

Starting point is 01:09:39 I know, kill them all. So maybe we'll not break up in that. Hey, check this out. Did you know that there's natural products that can help enhance your sexual performance? Kill them all. So maybe we'll not recommend that. Hey, check this out. Did you know that there's natural products that can help enhance your sexual performance? Back by science, it's true. You can go the prescription route with their side effects or you can go natural and actually feel the results.

Starting point is 01:09:56 There's a company called Joy Mode that uses only science-backed ingredients with science-backed dosages. Try it out. It actually works. Go to usejoymod.com forward slash mine pump or use the code mine pump at checkout for 20% off your first order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Pam from California.

Starting point is 01:10:16 Hey, Pam, how can we help you? Hey guys, well, first I wanna thank you for having me on. And it's really great to listen to a podcast that's informative and entertaining. Thank you. Thank you. I am asking about hormones for a parimony, parimony, parimony, and a pausal woman. I'm just going to read my question. I'm wondering if you have any answers regarding parimony, parietal metapausal women getting estrogen replacement therapy and how it affects you in regards to weight, muscle mass and body fat.

Starting point is 01:10:50 Great question. Can I ask you what your symptoms were and why you went on estrogen? I did not go on estrogen. I don't want to go on estrogen. So a little context. I'm 46. So a little context. I'm 46. I have been a lifelong cardio girl until about last June. And since then I have gained about 10 pounds. Some of it intentionally, some of it not. And I granted I probably needed to gain some of that weight. I started with night sweats a few months ago and a few years ago I started having a lot of issues with sleep. So my concern is weight gain. I'm not gonna lie. I am a fitness fanatic and I want to stay lean. I want to stay fit. And. Okay, great question. So Pam, you might if I ask you some more questions. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:11:50 Okay. Do you have a history of any dysfunctional eating or a, let's say unhealthy? Okay. When I was in college, so I was like 20, 25 years old. But as you know, those thoughts don't totally go away. Yeah, they never do. They never do. I can totally relate to that because I struggle with my own body image issues. And they'll still rear their, it'll still rear its head when

Starting point is 01:12:14 I'm under stress or I feel like life's a little out of control. You said you gained 10 pounds and you kind of made the comment that you feel like, well, you probably should have gained or you needed to gain that 10 pounds. Last April I was about a buck 12. Okay. And which was way to I'm 5'7, way too skinny for me I know that. So I intentionally increased my calories from about probably 2,000 calories to around 2,300. By the summer I was around 116, I was happy with that. And then I started, I got your book. I started one of your programs June 1st. I ran that. Then I tried KB4A. I like that. Then I did anabolic and

Starting point is 01:12:57 I gained the rest of the way pretty much from when I started anabolic until now. Okay, and you're five seven, so that puts you at what, 122? Yeah. Okay. How would you feel about intentionally trying to put on more body weight and body fat? Well, I backed off going on the scale so much. I had a, I had a text that's done in November because I was freaking out about it. And my body fat at that time was around 14 and a half percent.

Starting point is 01:13:29 Yeah, okay, so I've been doing this a long time, okay? And just based on the way that you're answering my questions and some of the information that you're giving me, I'm going to say that in the you've had some kind of issues with body image in the past. Yeah, I think a lot of what you may be feeling is due to the fact that you probably need to put on more weight and more body fat. The female body in particular is quite sensitive to being too lean or too high under stress, physical stress.

Starting point is 01:13:59 So if you exercise a lot, you're not necessarily feeding yourself enough, then you'll start to exhibit symptoms of low estrogen or you may have low estrogen or you'll have an imbalance of estrogen and progesterone. And you'll notice things like low libido, irritability, sleep disturbances, hair, skin and nails. We'll seem like they're not as healthy.

Starting point is 01:14:21 Obviously, go ahead. I'm sorry, the thing is, I've always been skinny. Like, I've never had a problem with my weight. But when I started your programs, I intentionally, like, cut out a lot of cardio. So because I needed to be, I wanted to do your program and gave some strength and gave some muscle. So I don't know. Well, if you were my client,

Starting point is 01:14:49 and by the way, this is gonna be, this is not, this will be hard, okay? It's gonna be hard for you. Yeah. For a couple of reasons, one, because of your past, that you're afraid of gaining weight, you're not weighing yourself, so that tells me right there that you may be triggered

Starting point is 01:15:01 from seeing the scale, changing direction you don't want to. It's gonna be tough, but I would say try and move in that direction, try and move in the direction, continue moving in the direction of strength, of eating more calories. In particular, you want to give yourself the essential nutrients, fats and proteins, although carbohydrates are not bad, so I would eat carbs as well. But really push yourself and move yourself in that direction.

Starting point is 01:15:31 Don't weigh yourself on the scale. Your best gauge is going to be your strength in the gym. In fact, do you, you're following some of our programs? Do you have maps, power lift? No, actually, I'm finishing aesthetic now, and I was going to do strong. Strong is fine, but I think Power Lift would be even better, because the goal that I would want you to focus on is strengthening. If your strength is moving up, you're going in the right direction. Also, what it'll do is it'll take your focus away from body to performance. And that is, in my experience, when I've worked with people in your situation, the easiest transition is to go from body to performance. To go from body to ignoring the body to,

Starting point is 01:16:19 it's like you need to focus on something. So if I can get you to focus on strength and all you do is single-mindedly, I want to get my bench press, my deadlift, and my squat to go up. And if those are going up, then you're doing the right thing. If they're not going up, then you probably need to eat more. You probably need to bump your calories a little more. So just try to get as strong as you can with maps power lift. I'll send that to you. I'm going to send that over to. I also want you in the forum, Pam, because I am in your forum. Ohlith. I'll send that to you. I'm gonna send that over to you. I also want you in the forum, Pam, because I am in your forum.

Starting point is 01:16:47 Oh, wonderful. I want updates. I want you to tag me, tag the guys. Let us know what's going on, because you're gonna need to support this entire time, because here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna get stronger. You're gonna do what I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:16:59 You're just okay, South said, eat more, push the strength. Then you may notice, clothes may start to feel different. You notice your legs feel a little different. You're gonna want that support along the way. Now, what's gonna come along with that? Is improvements in mood, improvements in energy, improvements in sleep. All that will start to follow,

Starting point is 01:17:18 but strength is gonna be the gauge I want you to measure, the entire time. So if your strength is going up, you're moving in the right direction, that'll be the best indicator that you're doing the thing, everything the right way. At the end of that, if you've gained lots of strength, you start to feel good, I doubt you're going to need to go on something like estrogen. You know, body fat can have a significant impact on a woman's hormone levels, having two little body fat or not or overtraining or not feeding yourself enough

Starting point is 01:17:46 or a combination of all three, almost always will cause a hormone imbalance, almost always. So once you fix those, then you may notice that you're like, okay, I think I feel a lot better. I go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I was gonna make a comment that I actually think

Starting point is 01:18:04 that we're the wrong professionals in this conversation, No, I just, I was gonna make a comment that I, I actually think that we're the wrong professionals in this, in this conversation. Meaning that I know, I know your desired outcome of asking us cause you respect our knowledge around weight training and body composition and that is our expertise. But I also think that's the wrong focus for you right now. Like that's, like you, you need to do what's best

Starting point is 01:18:22 for your body and the advice that Salis giving I think is excellent advice. But the best support I think that you can get is from somebody who's like you need to do what's best for your body. And the advice that Sal is giving, I think is excellent advice. But the best support I think that you can get is from somebody who's helping you work through all those things that we all, I think most people have it. Very few people are willing to admit it and talk about it. I think the fact that you're open enough to share. Oh, well, I've gotten like, I'm recovered.

Starting point is 01:18:41 I mean, that was a long time ago. But those thoughts, they just, they've never, they never go away. You know, that was a long time ago, but those thoughts, they just, they've never, they never go away. You know, you're always. 100% 100% and that, and that to me, this whole thing will be that. It'll be that the mental battle. It's less about the X's and O's from us as far as like,

Starting point is 01:18:57 oh, follow this eating and do this training. It's like more of like these things are gonna rear its head. I need to make sure I'm mentally prepared for it. Stay the core. Do it, yeah, support. Do what's healthy for my body, not necessarily what I maybe want or wanna see. You know, and so I do like the idea

Starting point is 01:19:13 they'll be in the forum. I think that we can be a great support, but absolutely, your body's probably asking you to put on a little bit of weight. And I think after you do that, I think you will sort of see things move in the right direction. And focusing on strength is just a great, in your case, it's a healthy distraction,

Starting point is 01:19:32 it's a healthy direction. Because what's gonna be tough for you is to change your focus and not have it go on something else. Because it's gonna wanna go there. So if I could take your single-minded focus, you said you're fitness fanatic, so I know you have that. If you could take your single-minded focus and make it strength and say, okay,

Starting point is 01:19:50 I'm gonna follow Mass Power Lift. Let's see what I can do in the three big lifts. Let's see what I can hit in those three big lifts. It'll be a great, it'll give you enough space for you to move in the right direction. And then that space, it gives you the space for awareness is what it does, okay? So I'm giving you all the kind of like,

Starting point is 01:20:08 you know, why we do it, but I think that's the right direction. And then yeah, Adam's absolutely right. Like if this is challenging in any more mental aspect, then yeah, you're probably gonna wanna work with someone along the way. Yeah, I understand that. But because what about the effects of estrogen on the woman's bikes? I don't mean they their testosterone tanks and they get testosterone.

Starting point is 01:20:32 You know, what about for women? Is that beneficial or is it, or the risks outweigh the benefits? No, so okay, so, so okay, I want to disclaimer. We're not doctors, but... I know about that. Yeah. Estrogen is extremely important hormone for both men and women, for health, longevity, strength, muscle gain. So a man could have testosterone that's through the roof. His estrogen can be in the floor and you'll have trouble building muscle. So, and for women, estrogen that's too low. I mean, you feel like garbage, your body doesn't adapt well. But hormone, remember hormones are adaptive to your lifestyle,

Starting point is 01:21:11 right? They tend to reflect your lifestyle. Now, let's say you do everything right. Let's say you're healthy, you're following everything right. Your body fat percentage is great, you're not too lean, you're feeding yourself, you're getting stronger, hormones are still a little off, then you can look into hormone replacement or supplementation. At that point, what you're looking at is quality of life, because the risk versus benefit really falls there. What's the quality of life benefit that I'm going to get? But I would bet that if you move in the right direction with your training nutrition, I would bet that your hormone levels would also move in the right direction with your training nutrition, I would bet that your hormone levels

Starting point is 01:21:47 would also move in the right direction. Okay. That's very, very likely. Yeah, I do that. But if somebody's estrogen is off and they're trying to do everything right and it's still off and they supplement and it brings it up to more optimal levels,

Starting point is 01:22:00 yeah. They're going to react better to exercise. Pamela, are you in our holistic health forum? The one with Dr. Cabral's team? No, not. Oh, yeah, they're going to react better to exercise. Pamela, are you are you in our holistic health forum the one with Dr. Cabral's team? No, no, yeah, I go there. Yeah, I think there'd be some some value of you getting it's a free forum. It's on Facebook Yeah, it's mind pump holistic health and MP MP. Oh, it's MP. So MP holistic health Okay, and his team is incredible there and there and they do talk a lot about this stuff And so you know as you're going through it, that'll be another really good group to add to Okay. And his team is incredible there and there, and they do talk a lot about this stuff.

Starting point is 01:22:25 And so, as you're going through it, that'll be another really good group to add to. Okay. No, I'll check it out for sure. All right. Thanks for calling in. And we'll send you a mass power lift, okay? Thank you so much, guys. Thank you, Pam.

Starting point is 01:22:37 All right, thank you. Bye-bye. I tell you what, is going through body image issue stuff with such a gift now. I can look back and be because it's something I can recognize. Yeah, you can recognize it. You know, when you talk to somebody right away, you know, kind of what's going on. And people don't know, but they who are watching, they'll send us their full question. And there's information here that I can see that she didn't say on the podcast, like how she's trying to regulate

Starting point is 01:23:03 her mood and your ability and libido and all this other stuff. And then based on how she's talking and what she's saying in her fear of getting away, and then of course I can see her on video, like, I had a pretty educated guess on kind of what was going on. That's why I asked her those questions. And I don't make a huge difference,

Starting point is 01:23:21 but that doesn't mean she's gonna do it. That's the challenging thing is, now you gotta do it and you gotta fight that inner voice that says, mean she's gonna do it. That's the challenging thing. Now you gotta do it, and you gotta fight that inner voice that says, oh my God, you're getting fat. Oh my God. I'm glad you brought up getting professional to kind of consult with as well in that regard

Starting point is 01:23:34 in terms of like having some kind of, another professional voice in there, because a lot of this is just conversations that need to be had continuously. It's not necessarily like, here's the playbook and then just go do it because, you know, you could just see the resistance immediately to any kind of advice. And it's just that's kind of the mental state that she's in. And so to be able to work through that I think is would be. Yeah, it's a quick default for me because I failed a lot of women

Starting point is 01:24:02 that I trained that were in this position because I was trying to give them what I thought was what they wanted, which was the Ants. Like, oh, you want to stay lean? So we'll do this. So I was being the coach with the answers with Matt. You were dealing with the smoke, but not the fire. That's right. And so I'm very aware of it when I see it and know better than to even,

Starting point is 01:24:26 even if I do have the answers to their question, I know there's an underlining thing that needs to be addressed that's far more important than the questions that they're asking me. And so I almost always like just, I'm not the right guy for this. Same here. Same here Adam.

Starting point is 01:24:40 The only, the real success I had in situations where somebody had some dysfunctional relationships with, with diet in their bodies and that kind of stuff, was when I worked concurrently with a therapist, I would get a client like this and I would eventually convince them to work with a therapist, then the therapist and I would work together, that's when I saw success. But if they didn't have those us too, later on I got a little better because I had worked with so many therapists at that point that I kind of knew what questions to ask

Starting point is 01:25:08 and kind of, you know, they asked me, how do I get lean and how do I get strong? And I knew like that's not really what we need to focus on. But if I didn't have that other support there, it was like, you see me twice a week, I'm training you, I'm not a professional therapist, like this isn't going to necessarily work. Now that we covered that,

Starting point is 01:25:24 I think it's also important to address that, you know, there tends to be two camps when it comes to taking exogenous hormones, like, you know, like estrogen, like either you're like super anti-at, you should never do that or you're like pro default right away to it. And the truth is I've seen in both cases, I mean, I've seen someone who gets on estrogen

Starting point is 01:25:42 and it's been life changing. It's in the middle, the answer's in the middle. Yeah, I've seen someone who gets on estrogen and it's been life changing. It's in the middle. The answer is in the middle. Yeah, I've seen it completely change everything for them and they do one by taking that. And then I've seen other people where that wasn't the answer and there was other root causes. So, you know, this is not as simple as like, don't or do. It's like, we need to investigate more. There's a lot more potentially going on here. Exogenous hormones are not the answer until they are the answer. And then they are the answer. Yeah

Starting point is 01:26:06 Our next color is Ryan from Maryland Ryan. What's happening man? How can we help you? Hey fellas? All right, so let me just jump in here my question has to do with kind of How to prime oneself for your very first bulk Just to give you a quick background. I am 38. About three years ago, I had this sort of, I guess you can call it like a moment of clarity where I realized I wanted to be a dad at one point. I had a couple obstacles in the way. The first one was I was just super unhealthy.

Starting point is 01:26:41 I was about 240 pounds. I just not taking care of myself. And I also have a lot of history of heart disease in my family, my dad died when he was in his early 60s. His dad died when he was 51, so I kind of wanted to try to get them going in the right direction. So for the next year and a half, I would say, I kind of went back and forth between dieting and eating

Starting point is 01:27:07 at maintenance, got down to about 180 pounds, but truthfully, did it in all the wrong ways. I dieted too hard. I was only doing cardio. But about a year and a half ago, I decided to start lifting weights actually when I first started listening to you all. For about nine months of that I kind of was on the newbie gain train as it were gained

Starting point is 01:27:36 about ten pounds over the course of those nine months. And then a plateau like I thought it would. And then at that point, especially after that again, listening to you all talk about what you do, I realized at one point I was gonna have to start eating more, right? And by this someone who is like an ex, exo-beast person, I guess you could say, it's scared the shit out of me.

Starting point is 01:28:02 I know you guys have talked with other people that have those same issues. So what I decided to do was, when I first started lifting, I was doing the four days a week. And what I thought I would do is kind of like a prep for my first bulk is I thought about, OK, let me kind of lock in everything else, right? I'm going to make sure my sleep is good.

Starting point is 01:28:24 I'm going to make sure my diet is good, I'm gonna make sure my diet is good. I switched from lifting from three days a week to four days a week to three days a week, kind of on the advice of you guys, kind of I shifted to just doing compound movements, right? I tried to lock in everything, I actually backed off of the weight a little bit and it just worked on my movements, right? I tried to lock in everything. I actually backed off of the weight a little bit and just worked on my

Starting point is 01:28:46 My movements, my mobility stuff like that anyway, so and then once I did that for a couple of months then I jumped into a Balkan and it was very Minimals like maybe 200 calories 300 calories over what my maintenance was and I noticed that my body absolutely Exploded I had such like I was feeling better on my lips when not through the roof, but relatively through the roof from what I was experiencing. And I guess my question really boils down to, do you all, if you, this is something that you ever

Starting point is 01:29:19 kind of like run into, is there any science behind the idea of kind of prepping your body about going into a bulk where you kind of eat it maintenance, but you kind of lock in everything else and you kind of, honestly, I feel like my body was like so pissed off at me for so long saying like just give us like a little bit more food, little bit more energy and we'll put it to get used because even, and I did this bulk for about 12 weeks. And my body fat went down a percentage, but my weight increased about 7 pounds. And I thought about you Adam, when you talked a lot about your body recomb, where your weight kind of stayed right around the same point, but your body really changed.

Starting point is 01:29:58 And although I only did this for 12 weeks, I was just curious, is this something like you front into with other clients? Is this something that maybe I can do more of going forward? So I just curious with the thoughts on that. Yes and yes. You know what happened to you, Ryan, is you started lifting weights, you got to a certain point, your metabolism got faster. So you needed more calories.

Starting point is 01:30:23 This is what we talk about when When we talk about strength training, it'd be so effective for fat loss. You got a metabolism boost. What happened is your metabolism met your caloric intake. So you can no longer gain any muscle because you were burning what you were eating because you had extra muscle

Starting point is 01:30:37 from that nine months of newbie gains. So what you did is you bumped your calories two to three hundred. You fueled your fed your body, the extra that it needed. And it still was a little lower than what you did is you bumped your calories two to 300. You fueled your fed your body, the extra that it needed. And it still was a little lower than what you needed because you still went down a percent body fat. So yes, this is exactly what you can expect. If you do this consistently over time, as you build, you'll get a faster metabolism and you'll require

Starting point is 01:31:00 more calories to maintain your physique, which is a great place to be, especially if you've dealt with being overweight in the past, because you're going to eat more, but be leaner than you did when you were heavier, when you were 240 pounds. In a perfect world, you continue down this path of kind of doing the same thing as far as adding a couple hundred calories every time you hit these little plateaus, and you look back in a year, and you're eating a thousand more calories than what you were a year ago and you're in better shape. Your leaner, stronger and you're eating a thousand more calories.

Starting point is 01:31:32 That's exactly what will happen if you keep going this direction and it's a good place to be. And it's actually more common than you would think, especially for somebody who has put on a lot of weight. This is what they tend to do is that they are afraid to add too many calories. So they always lean on the other side, right? It's an opposite of other people, right? It's like, you guys know, like, oh, God, I've been there before.

Starting point is 01:31:55 I don't want to go back. And so if I'm going to increase calories, I'm going to do a little bit. And they just want to do a little. They're too worried about slapping on four or 500 calories, but your body's been screaming at you to give it to you. Give it to me, I need those calories. I'm trying to build, you're doing all the right thing as far as you're training.

Starting point is 01:32:09 And so it's actually a really good place, dude. You're doing really well right now. Yeah. And I guess my, go ahead. Oh, one thing, let me add, Ryan, the only caveat is don't get stuck in the same workout routine because that'll also get you to plateau.

Starting point is 01:32:23 So make sure that you train smart, don't over train, be very intelligent about it, but phase your workouts, low reps for a few weeks, higher reps for other weeks, change up some of the other exercises, you know, more volume, less volume. Ideally, if you want programming, right, you can go from the maps programs, go from one program to another program to another program, and that's kind of how we design them. Are you following a maps program, by the way? So I'm not.

Starting point is 01:32:49 I've definitely been thinking about it, and obviously you all would know best, but I feel like symmetry might be a good call for me, especially since I moved to doing three days a week, and I've been doing just the compounds. Sure. I have been messing around style a little bit with what I've been doing when I first started doing

Starting point is 01:33:09 the three days a week. I did a five by five, and with one minute rest in between just as something to kind of shake it up. Lately, I've been doing three sets, but I've allowed myself three minutes in between sets, but even when I'm doing that, I've noticed a couple of spots where, especially if I'm doing like a dumbbell, like overhead press,

Starting point is 01:33:29 I've noticed that like my right tricep is like a little weaker, even back stuff when I do, I've noticed when I just start, I literally just noticed that I could start doing legit pull-ups lately, which is rad, but I also realized that when I'm lifting myself up, my left side is like a little stronger and I have to kind of like edge it to kind of get them even. So I thought symmetry might be a good call for me, but I'd be interested. Yeah, you're on track. It's perfect. It's a perfect program for you right now. We'll send it over to you and stop thinking about it and just do it.

Starting point is 01:34:01 I mean, that's I think it does sound like though, just so the audience knows, you were doing some good things. So I mean, as far as the way you were phasing things out, changing up your rest periods and like, obviously, and that's, it's why you're seeing the results you are. So, but it's nice to have something laid out for you. I think you'll enjoy, hopefully having a couple of professionals. You've got stimulus going. Yeah. And symmetry is a great decision.

Starting point is 01:34:22 I think it's great. Symmetry and the dynamic and then performance in that direction. That's great. I do have one more quick question for the three of you. If you have a second. Yeah. So again, as being someone who like wants to be a dad and has been kind of got into this later later in life, I'm curious of how the three of you see your training. Like if you were able to look in the future and say, okay, 10 years from now with my training, what am I still doing?

Starting point is 01:34:55 And what could you see completely changing 10 years from now? Because I would assume from what I know, you all will be in your 50s at that point. So I'm curious of like what you all would change. Because I know that's something I'll eventually put into. Yeah, um, God. Sounds a bad person to answer this. He's still in the phase of being addicted to training.

Starting point is 01:35:13 Justin and I are probably going for a real good. I would probably look a lot like I am now. Actually, I hope that my actually volume increases a little bit. I'm pretty low volume right now. What's beautiful about where you're at, and if you actually think about fast forwarding 10 years from now, if you do a good job, you do a lot of power walking. If you do a good job of being consistent for the next 10 years of lifting and building muscle, you're going to love what you notice. It's easy to keep. It is

Starting point is 01:35:42 a lot of you to keep. I'm getting away with a day or two of training. Sometimes those workouts are only 20 minutes long. You can almost tell you where it's out. So a lot of my training right now is, you know, I prioritize some of the big lifts because I know I'm doing so little right now, so I don't lose a lot. Now, I recognize that I looked better four or five years ago, but my volume was incredibly higher. I still do mobility stuff, although I don't have to do as much of it because I put so much good work in in the last couple of years.

Starting point is 01:36:17 So, yeah, volume of training, just a lot lower. And I think, selfishly, we created Maps 15 based on the fact of our lifestyle and how that's shifted and how we've really been able to schedule that around. It conveniently having a home gym too and all that kind of stuff has changed and really kind of flipped the dynamic for me for how I used to train in commercial gyms. But I'm always considering those quote unquote, functional lifts, and so I will do the main compound lifts

Starting point is 01:36:49 to just keep that baseline strength there, but I'm trying to address some of those things just to keep me mentally stimulated when I work out, keep it fun, but also I didn't really tell them, but my new focus is really to incorporate a little bit more cardio back in the mix, God forbid. I didn't really tell them, but like my new focus is really to kind of incorporate a little bit more cardio back in the mix, God forbid. Undercover, yeah.

Starting point is 01:37:08 I don't tell them, why does it teach me? Because these are like a shame. Yeah. They seriously hanging out with these guys. I'm eating wheat now. We're on a treadmill last week. Anyways, so yeah, that's my plan. What's that sound outside?

Starting point is 01:37:24 Hey, nothing good. Hey, Ryan, I'll tell you something that I actually I haven't shared a some show. I've been in my notes to bring it up to talk about that I think is one of the the the the like biggest epiphanies I've had in my life in the last like five to 10 years of lifting. Um, I have gotten much better and hopefully you see this in your journey of having a even healthier relationship with my nutrition and volume of exercise. Like in the past, even being as a fitness professional, notoriously what I would do is I would be all in and I'd be dieting and training hard and like like very consistent.

Starting point is 01:38:00 And then when I'm off, I'm like, ah, fuck it, whatever. I'm having ice cream. I'm doing whatever I want to do. Don't worry, I know how to whip it back into shape. And I had this really back and forth relationship with diet and exercise where I have a much better and healthier approach, which is I recognize when my volume of training is low and I tighten up and I discipline myself with my food choices when those times in my life are. And then when I'm really staying trained

Starting point is 01:38:26 and conditioned, I allow those things that I enjoy in my diet more. And what I've noticed is I don't have these dramatic swings and I never really fall way out of shape. And maybe I'm not as shredded as I was when I was competing, but I tend to keep this really healthy kind of body fat percentage, strength ratio, all that, like by just not going extreme, and I think that's, I think a lot of people can relate to that, that they, they're on or they're off.

Starting point is 01:38:53 And I've gotten better about never being completely off, you know, and I'm also not all the way on all the time either. I have a lot better balance. And I think that that is really changing. It's allowed me not to have to go in these, you know, oh, I got to get a hardcore cut now because I let all this body fat come on. It's because I never really get way out of shape anymore.

Starting point is 01:39:13 Here's the beauty. You're right now you're figuring out or learning the metabolism boosting, incredible metabolism boosting effects of strength training. Here's what you're going to learn 10 years from now is that it's the most, it produces the most permanent results. Now, there's no permanent results with exercise, but what Adam's talking about is very true.

Starting point is 01:39:34 Like, you do this consistently for 10 years, it doesn't take much to keep it. It's pretty remarkable, it's actually pretty awesome. I don't know what the form of exercise offers that, so. But I think you're gonna love map symmetry. I think that's a perfect program for you. That's great to hear because this is someone I will say last year and a half have been really consistent, which is great. But I know it's not always going to be like that, especially

Starting point is 01:39:54 if I start a family like those sorts of things. So the idea of being able to find that balance is really really great. Do you have a good woman? Do you have a, are you single? Or you want to be a dad, but do you have the right woman? Yeah, I am single at the moment. I thought I landed someone in the fall But it's in didn't quite work actually had a really funny you guys always talk about People carrying weight at different point places on their body and One time not to get too personal on you guys, but me and this one were in bed, and she said, all of a sudden, she was like,

Starting point is 01:40:28 God damn, and I said what? And she was like, you're late. If I didn't know, like she's like, I don't think you're like super lean or anything. But if I just saw you from the waist down, I would think you were like six percent body fat. I was like, oh, thank you. But unfortunately, I carry in

Starting point is 01:40:42 and other places to make it. I'm like, places that make it So it's another reason why symmetry might be good for me. No, Ryan. Yeah, just I'm working on working on the day. Anything for sure. You'll enjoy symmetry. And then one to look at too is I think that for later, I think having or during those

Starting point is 01:40:59 times when you're not asking, I think maps 15 would be a valuable program to have in your experience. That's the that's the program for parents. 100% yeah. I had a that's the program for parents. 100% yeah. I had a PR doing that program by the way. So it works. Yeah. Awesome.

Starting point is 01:41:10 Well, I appreciate you guys. I just wanted to say one last thing is just that as an aspiring dad, some of the conversations you guys have about being parents and constantly learning, I think it's a huge thing. When it comes to being a parent, a lot of people think about that sort of thing, how you can learn how you can evolve as a parent and as a partner. It's just pretty amazing. So I really appreciate you guys. Ryan, do you have a social media handle you want to play real quick since girls will

Starting point is 01:41:33 be watching this? Maybe we'll get you some dates. Yeah, I mean, I can throw it out there. It's pretty simple. Yeah, what's your Instagram? Let's get you some. I can't believe I'm doing it. So on Instagram, it's Brian R.Y. and M is in Michael and then my last name, Pranger, P-R-E-N-G-E-R. So if you're out there,

Starting point is 01:41:54 hit me up. I'm in Maryland, but I work for Moms. I'm flexible and logistic and things. All right. You hear that lady's flexible. He's got lean legs and flexible. I appreciate you guys. Thanks, man. Take it easy, man. Have a good one. Yeah, I tell you what, what you said is so true.

Starting point is 01:42:14 I mean, all joking aside, you look like somebody works out, you know, four days a week, five days a week. But that's because of the foundation you built, and it's so true, you know, and people are looking for that, right? They're looking for exercise that sticks around, the results are still going. Strength training does that. When you do it for a long, pretty time,

Starting point is 01:42:30 you get this kind of permanent muscle almost. It's not permanent, but it's pretty amazing. I'll never stop. I'll never stop doing it for sure, but it'll be modified based on what my body says. So I'm sure at some point, I'll probably have to use a sled primarily for everything lower body.

Starting point is 01:42:44 You keep finding a new angle that keeps interesting. That's my favorite part about getting older that I feel like nobody really communicated to me when I was younger. And I get you know what? If you would have told me that that would have been motivating for the 2020s and 30s to know like, hey bro, you're gonna put a lot of hard work in right now, but it's gonna be easy as you get older and you're gonna look better than most of your peers. Do you remember how hard it was to be over 200 pounds? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:43:07 Oh, dude, just pressing there was everything. Yeah, now it's like I could be 200 pounds workout once a week and have 200 pounds of muscle. Yeah. Our next caller is Amanda from Australia. Hi Amanda, how can we help you? Hey guys, oh, I'm so excited to be here. I was so sure I wasn't going to fangirl at you

Starting point is 01:43:23 but I kind of am. So thank you for having me on. I'm very excited to be here. I was so sure I wasn't going to fangirl at you, but I kind of am. So thank you for having me on. I'm very grateful to be here and it's keep up the good work. Thank you. All right. Thank you. So I'm just going to jump straight into the question. I'm on the last base of your Maths and a Ballet program. And I'm struggling with your good morning exercise. I don't really feel my hamstrings working at all when I'm doing it. And I'm like, I'm loading it out quite heavy.

Starting point is 01:43:52 And I've watched your video on YouTube of how to do it correctly. And I recorded my form and everything looks fine. But I feel nothing. And I am very flexible. Like I train and coach aerial tissue So I have a lot of active flexibility, so I don't know if that's impeding or like is doing anything that That is why or I'm doing it wrong. Yeah, so my wife did aerial tissues for a while She traveled with sirk. She was actually worked for sirk and so, and she was very flexible when I first met her. And doing good mornings and stiff like a deadlift, even hip-hing properly,

Starting point is 01:44:31 she would like, we'd have to like have her stand on a box because the weights would hit the floor and she wouldn't get a stretch. She's the range of motion. So it's just that's part of it. Part of it could be your form and technique. But if you're hip-hing, okay, if you're properly hip-hinging, if it's not at the lumbar spine, in other words, you're maintaining neutral spine and you're bending at the hips and your butt is kind of coming back

Starting point is 01:44:53 and your knees are slightly bent but fixed. Your hamstrings are working, they are working. So even though you might not feel them necessarily, they're working, something you could try as a technique. First off, I wanna make sure your form is perfect. If this is gonna be, I'm gonna say this, considering you have good form, okay? So if your form is good and you wanna feel your hamstrings,

Starting point is 01:45:12 try this pre-exhaust superset. Try doing leg curls and then go right to good mornings and then see if you feel your hamstrings. Nine out of 10 times, you'll be able to feel the hamstrings in the good mornings if you pre-exhaust them with a leg curl. Amanda, where do you feel it when you do them? And especially since you're loading it, when you get done with a wrap or a set, where do you feel it? Honestly, I feel it slightly in my glutes, but mostly it's like my back gets it like my lower back starts getting exhausted from just holding the heavy weight.

Starting point is 01:45:43 Do you notice a difference when you do, are you having the same experience like Sal was saying that Jessica had where even when she did like stiff leg of deadlifts, do you have you done any stiff leg of deadlifts and do they feel the same way also in the deadlift? I, when I do them, I do what Jessica does, like I stand on a bench.

Starting point is 01:46:02 So I can go even deeper and then I feel it, but if I just do regular ones, it's it's very hard for me to feel much. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the key is when you're when you're doing this, right, you can bend over and the lumbar spine can flex and extend. The hips can also cause flexion extension. So your spine has to be perfectly rigid. So when you're doing the movement, you want to lead with your chest, stick your butt out, and then as you go down, let the hips kinda travel back a little bit.

Starting point is 01:46:31 You're probably not gonna feel a stretch because you're so flexible, and that's okay. You're still working the hamstrings. But try the pre-exhaust technique that I said. And you could do leg curls on a physio ball or leg curls on a machine, then go right to good mornings or right to Romanian deadlifts, and you'll probably feel the hamstring.

Starting point is 01:46:46 Well, just in terms of your back, lower back in fatigue, have you gone through and like, braced with a, with a PVC pipe down your spine and tried to make sure that your lower back was touching the PVC pipe as you hip-injed at the same time, only because that is a great tool to be able to kind of teach

Starting point is 01:47:06 your body to maintain that, that bracing position, as, especially if you're loading it and making sure that, you know, you're keeping that rigid back completely. No, I haven't tried that. Neither the pre-exhaust one. I'll try both of them. So just from a perspective. It's actually really what you're experiencing is actually common with somebody who has this great of a range of motion in their hamstrings. It's like when you're teaching somebody an exercise to feel it in the muscle, we're going to feel it at the end range is the most, especially when you're first learning how to activate and work that.

Starting point is 01:47:39 So because you have such a great range of motion in the hamstrings and you're not taking it to the end range, it's really hard to make that. Because there's no peak contraction at the top, it's not like your hamstrings are fully contracted. That's right. The main, the range of motion, the part of the range of motion that someone would feel in a good morning is the stretch.

Starting point is 01:47:57 And because you're so flexible, you're just going, it's all mid for you. There's no stretch, there's no squeeze, either at the top, but it's working. Now here's the other thing I want to say to someone, to someone like you, there's no squeeze either at the top. But it's working. Now here's the other thing I want to say to someone like you, which is rare, someone is flexible as you. I don't even think you should search for the stretch because it's so deep that unless

Starting point is 01:48:14 you go really, really light and your form is like pristine, perfect, I wouldn't load it very heavy and do that because the odds that you're going to have perfect technique with that kind of range of motion is quite low. So I would go, if you're gonna push for the stretch, I would go super light. Otherwise, let the weights hit the floor, so don't stand on a bench. Get perfect technique and do a pre-exhaust.

Starting point is 01:48:34 Leg curls on a physio ball, go straight to the good mornings, go lighter with the good mornings because you pre-exhausted, and then you'll probably feel the hamstrings. Okay, and even though the flexibility makes makes it so I don't get that rating, uh, end of range motion, I still get, I guess the same benefit as somebody. Yeah. The hamstrings are still working. They're still functioning in that hip hinge. And you're still taking them through a pretty big range of motion too. So it's not like you're neglecting a range

Starting point is 01:49:02 of motion. And it's like this shortened little range of motion, but you're still taking the muscle through a great range of motion. It's just that you happen to be really, really flexible there. I mean, if your form is good and you're getting stronger in the good morning, I wouldn't worry too much about this. Not the feel of it.

Starting point is 01:49:19 Yeah, and I love the advice of doing like lying leg curls before so you can feel it. You'll feel it. But that's the reason why, because lying leg curls, there's tension on the hamstring the entire time. Regardless if you're at the end range or not. And you get the squeeze there. And so that's why you feel that.

Starting point is 01:49:33 The reason why you don't very much is because on a good morning at the very top, if you're not really contracting that much, there's no resistance because of gravity because you're up. And then when you go all the way down, you're not even close to your in range, so it's not making it feel that stretch feeling.

Starting point is 01:49:47 So that's why, that's why you're feeling the way it is. And it's not uncommon for somebody who has flexibility like you, and it doesn't necessarily mean something is necessarily wrong, though, either. Yeah, the pre-exhaust is I think gonna be key for you to feel. But I mean, like when you do like a pancake stretch or whatever, you flatten yourself out, right?

Starting point is 01:50:02 You're totally, you could bend all the way out. You're not gonna, you're not gonna feel the stretch in any kind of a hip hinge movement unless you super modify it, which I don't know. We're eating that muscle tension, is everything? Yeah, so pre-exhaust. Do the pre-exhaust. If you want to feel your hamstrings, go leg curls and then straight to good mornings or straight to Romanian. So it's a superset, right? So it's like you do 10 leg curls. And with the leg curls, squeeze the contraction, focus on getting your heels to your butt, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, do 10 reps there, then go to the hip hinge movement and you'll feel them.

Starting point is 01:50:32 Okay, great. Thank you. You got it. I'll try that. You got it. Thanks for the lesson. Yeah, you guys, I've shown you, because when I first started dating Jessica, I would send you guys, you can see the flexibility and strength. There's plenty of strength. There it is. Crazy. Yeah, I mean, because you have to be flexible, but also strong to support yourself. But, you know, good mornings, remain deadlift,

Starting point is 01:50:51 like unless you can stretch the hamstrings, you're just gonna be, it's gonna be hard to feel. I'm gonna do it, you know? Anybody that has like kind of like hyper flexibility, it's a difficult client to train. A lot of times it's a control thing, like, and to be able to, you able to create that muscular tension, like, took a lot of time to develop.

Starting point is 01:51:10 But your guys' points about her already being in that, only feeling and range is so far that to be able to feel that is very challenging. And searching for it wouldn't necessarily be a good idea. Well, and in a good morning, you get to understand that when she stands all the way up her there's nothing. There's no there's no like even though that's the fully contracted position from that. Years there's gravity's not resisting anymore. So she doesn't have to be squeezing very much. And then when she goes all the way down, that's the other point point. But she's so she has

Starting point is 01:51:40 such a great range of motion that she's not at the end stretch. And it's not even a fully contracted, right? Because your leg is still straight. Right. When fully contracted, it will be like a curled leg at the top, it's the glutes. But there's no resistance up there. You're not going to feel anything. Our next caller is Nicole from California.

Starting point is 01:51:54 Hi Nicole, how can we help you? Hi guys, thanks so much for having me on. You got it, yeah. I'll get right into my question, and I'll wait your time. So I've been listening to you guys for about eight months after I read Sal's book first. I love what I read about such a difference. My mindset about like cardio is the only way to lose weight and weight training just seemed so amazing to me.

Starting point is 01:52:21 My husband was the one who actually encouraged me to do it and I started my research and found her book first. So the podcast itself, I love just for all the other content you put out. It's really entertaining and Anyway, so my question is I started weight training about eight months ago I had a program that I bought years ago and I just did it in my own Well, I have my own little studio here with dumbbells. I'm gonna stay at home mom. I have my younger sister's two years old. So I didn't have access to a gym and I listened to you guys the whole time. And it was going pretty well.

Starting point is 01:52:53 I tended to hurt my neck often with that program and I also hurt my Achilles on one, on my right leg. But it was all right. I felt like I was getting stronger. At the same time, I was still doing my spin bike that I have and a cardio kit class. Both of them I was doing like two times a week, as well as walking. And my goal was to basically after the baby, like, tone up. I know that's not really a term you use, but to tighten up my core and to lose like eight

Starting point is 01:53:23 pounds. And in the first month, I think I gained a couple pounds, which I felt like that's what I'm trying to use, but to tighten up my core and to lose like eight pounds. And the first month, I think I gained a couple pounds, which I felt like that's what you guys always talk about, it's kind of normal. And then after five or so months of doing that, my husband kind of talked me into using he's got a rack and a bench and stuff that you brought from work and he put it in our garage and I bought anabolic. So I'm on a week, 10 of anabolic garage and I bought anabolic. So I'm on a week 10 of anabolic and I really like it. I mean I actually my neck hasn't gotten hurt since. I feel like I'm definitely lifting more and getting stronger but in the

Starting point is 01:53:58 beginning eight months ago I took my measurements basically from the waist down and that hasn't changed at all and I was hoping to lose a book like a dress size, but my arms and back seemed to be getting bigger because all my t-shirts in the last couple of weeks are tight, like mid-byeset. And as a woman, like, that's kind of the opposite goal, what I wanted. I wanted to feel like my clothes were loose and comfortable on me and I'm just feeling kind of bulky in the upper body. So I want to know if you adjust the programming and not do as much of the upper body movements.

Starting point is 01:54:33 That's kind of what my husband suggested, but I wanted to ask you guys what you suggest. Yeah, no, it's not a programming issue. Actually, building muscle is what's speeding up your metabolism and give you the fat burning machinery that you want for sustainable fat loss. But that's going to be a nutrition situation. So, are you tracking your calories? Do you know how many calories you're consuming? Grounds of proteins, fats, carbs, anything like that? I do. So, I have a bit of a restriction in eating disorder passed. So I'm able to use an app and track and see about what I eat. And I know I'm around 2,000 calories

Starting point is 01:55:12 is probably my maintenance. And I love proteins, so I can eat like 130 grams of protein, no problem. I tend to restrict carbohydrates for quite a few years. So that's usually on the lower end, like 80 to 100 grams of carbohydrates is the highest I can usually get to. And what was your other question? I mean, you know, you answered it. Yeah, you answered it. So I have more questions. I thought

Starting point is 01:55:37 I heard you say that you were doing the spend stuff and then also like a hit cardio thing. Are you still doing those four days of cardio week in addition to the anabolic? I stopped going to the cardio hit class and I stopped my bike. I just do two mile, like a two mile walk every day with the baby. Okay, okay. I mean, and that might be part of why we're seeing

Starting point is 01:55:58 how long have you been not doing those things right now? I stopped doing the bike and the cardio hit probably in the last six weeks. Your body weight hasn't changed but you feel a little bit tighter in the upper body. Yeah, I think I started like you might if I say how much I weigh or does it matter? I think I started back in June. I was like 142 pounds and I'm like 145, 144 pounds. You're kicking out, yeah, you're doing it. You're actually really good. Yeah, but you probably got leaner and built some muscle.

Starting point is 01:56:28 Consider it, consider when you eliminated all that cardio you were doing, that's a tremendous amount of calories that you were burning in the week. When we look at it as a whole, when you do four days like that and then you add it all up and then you add it over a month.

Starting point is 01:56:41 So the fact that you've been able to still eat the same amount of calories and really the weight you have is probably negligible. You're talking in probably a little bit of water weight for the most part. Maybe some muscle because you've got strong. Yeah, you've you're actually probably doing really good. This is a matter of like kind of staying the course. A couple things. I know you said protein is good, which is one of the common ones where my female clients would miss. How's your strength gains from lifting?

Starting point is 01:57:08 How are you pushing yourself weightwise? One of the challenges I had with clients, even Katrina, when we first met, that would tend to gravitate towards cardio-type training or circuit or hit-type stuff, getting her to think about, let's get that squad up as heavy as you can. The uploading process has always been difficult. Right. How are you with loading the bar? Are you are you pushing the weight?

Starting point is 01:57:30 What's it tell me how that how that looks right now for you? Yeah. So the bar is pretty new to me. Like I said, I certainly think early December and in November. So I I'm squatting. I want to say like I probably gained at least 20 pounds on my squat. When I was doing the lower rep range, I forget what phase I was like two or one. One, one.

Starting point is 01:57:52 Yeah, I love that. And I'm probably like a 30 pound difference from that lower rep range than the higher rep range I'm currently in. I think Nicole, you're on week 10. You're going in the right direction. You're totally, so fat loss or weight loss from strength training is more of a snowball effect. So it starts off slow.

Starting point is 01:58:18 And usually what happens is you see the weight not change much, you see strength go up, you notice changes in your body, but the scale doesn't change much. But then as the metabolism starts to speed up, which takes a second, then the fat loss starts to happen. You're actually moving in the right direction. Yeah, you are doing good. Yeah, you're totally moving in the right direction. I wouldn't even have you change much right now and just kind of stay the course. And did I hear that correctly? You're, are you lifting more weight in this current phase and you were in phase one. No, I think that's one. I think it's a squad that likes the 8 to 12 rep is around. It's not a lot, it's not impressive, it's like 80 pounds, but I was 110 pounds with the wonderful rep range.

Starting point is 01:58:54 Yeah, you're doing great. Yeah, and I also think that you have room when you get back to going back around, if you go back in through anabolic or you go to any of our other programs because phase one, we typically are strength, not all of them, but most of them are that way. The conversation you and I be having, if we are client, I be really trying to motivate you to stretch yourself on the weight, really pushing the way.

Starting point is 01:59:16 I think that you've got probably more strength capacity in there and granted, you're doing things the right way. So I want you to know that like, obviously, loading the bar super heavy when you're just learning it, that's not a good idea. But that's where I want to get you. I'm going to be pushing you in that direction. You got more in there, we're going to get stronger. Especially for that leg development, those big compound lifts, those squats and dead lifts, and really kind of pressing yourself in that direction. We'll provide that development you're looking for.

Starting point is 01:59:45 Yeah, and so if you were my client, what I would do is I would have you stay the course, I would have you slowly reverse diet, so I'd have you slowly increase your calories, get you to the point where you're eating like 2400, 2500 calories, where you're not really gaining any weight, but you're stronger, and then from there I would do a cut, and then that's where you would see the big fat loss. And what you're doing is you're setting yourself up for sustainable, lean, sculpted physique versus what you might have experienced in the past, where it was really hard to keep it off. And it was kind of like, oh my God, if I go off, I'd routine it all. It comes right back on my body. What you're going through

Starting point is 02:00:19 right now is the metabolism boosting process. And it can take months. It can take months to do so, especially if you're only a couple of years postpartum. You have a two year old. I would see your old, yeah. Yeah, you're totally, you're going in the right direction. You're doing good Nicole, you need to know that. You're doing good right now, you really are.

Starting point is 02:00:36 Don't get impatient because that's where people screw up because what'll happen a lot of times, especially with women, is you're like, you're 10 weeks into it, they start to get impatient, then they cut their calories like crazy, they throw a bunch of cardio at themselves, and then they end up where they were before. And by the way, like very easily, I could tell you, cut your calories, three to 500 calories, three to 500 calories, add a cardio, hour of cardio every single day, and I would give you the initial thing that you want. Like, you would see your upper body shrink down

Starting point is 02:01:02 a little bit. So be aware of that, right? Like that's right there, if you wanted to go there, but that's not setting yourself up for long term success. Trusting the process is going to, and it's a slower process like Sal said, it's a snowball effect, but I want you to know you're doing a good job. You really are, you're doing a good job, and you're heading the right path.

Starting point is 02:01:20 And as you start to go around and go through more of these maps programs, just keep working on getting stronger Yeah, getting stronger increasing those calories and you're gonna get to a point where you are eating 2400 2500 calories and not gaining weight and then when we bring you down to your 2000 calorie maintenance now you're leaning. It's easy to maintain it feels itself Yeah, and as far as the routine is concerned you could do all lower body for the trigger sessions Are you doing trigger sessions on the days in between?

Starting point is 02:01:47 So the trigger session days, I have not been able to squeeze in with the baby, but I really want to start doing that. So, one thing I haven't been doing. Oh, that'll make a huge difference. Cool, that makes a huge difference. Okay, so here's the... So, just body weight squats, that's everything.

Starting point is 02:02:01 Yeah, yeah. So here's what I want you to do. On the days in between, I want you to twice a day, just try twice a day, five to eight minutes of lower body exercises. And the idea isn't to get a crazy workout. The idea is just to go through full range of motion and kind of feel the muscles work a little bit.

Starting point is 02:02:18 And what that's gonna do, it's like adding a turbo charger to the hard workouts that you do three days a week. Okay, a question to that. I have like a larger lower body. That's kind of what I would like to strengthen. That's not going to increase my size doing that type of thing. No, but you said you wanted to avoid upper body stuff. Really, you can target whatever you want.

Starting point is 02:02:36 You could do core exercise, you could do upper body. Just do five to eight minutes, maybe 10 minutes of some exercise, make it moderate intensity at most. You just want to kind of feel the muscles a little bit. That's it, think recovery, don't think workout. Do two a day, one in the morning, one at night, and then watch what happens. It's literally like adding a turbo to what you're doing.

Starting point is 02:02:55 Nicole, if you tell me, you told me about where your weight is, you just told me that you have a very, you're, you're thicker in the lower half. I've got, I've got you squatting 185 in the next six months or less. That's what I got. If I'm training you, I've got you squatting 185 for five reps. Like I'm pushing, you're gonna have that in you. That's the thing to focus on.

Starting point is 02:03:14 Get strong. Don't be in, and the beauty of having a thick lower body is there's a lot of muscle in there, which, and more muscle speeds the metabolism. So there's advantages of having a stronger, thicker, lower body to the overall fat loss. So, and when you get, as when you get to the process of cutting down,

Starting point is 02:03:36 it looks really good. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I love to do for it. Yeah. All right. You're doing great. Let's get you in the forum too,

Starting point is 02:03:44 so we can stay in touch with you. Sure. Dominic have Doug send you access to the private forum and then just keep us posted on your journey. Feel free to share videos of your squatting or exercise like that so we can make any critiques on your forum or let you know how you're doing great. I can a lot of times tell by the way somebody is moving away on how much they are pushing themselves weight wise and be able to give you advice that way too. So get in there and make sure you tag us and share your journey. Okay, that sounds great. Thanks guys. So I'll probably just

Starting point is 02:04:13 run anabolic again when I'm done and I'll make sure to include the trigger sessions and push myself a little bit more. Yes, love that. Thank you guys so much. You got it. Cool. Thank you. That was just a, hey, am I on the right path? Yeah, basically. Bro, she, she, she forgot to mention that she had well developed legs. I, I, I, I, I, I smelled it, bro. I smell, I, I swear to God, she looked strong to me.

Starting point is 02:04:33 Yeah. Yeah. Like I see her and I'm like, that chick is squatting. She's just uncomfortable. She's, she's squatting 80 pounds and I'm like, she can, when she gets to the bar, when she reversed diets, and it just stays the course, metabolism is already boosting already, she stopped doing that cardio,

Starting point is 02:04:46 and she hasn't really gained any weight. When she gets the point when she starts to cut, when she's comfortable cutting, she's gonna be very happy with the way she feels. Very easily. Hey, check this out. If you wanna find out if your hormones are optimized, if you're healthy, if they're within range,

Starting point is 02:05:00 go to mphormones.com, fill out intake form, and talk to a professional. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over

Starting point is 02:05:37 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindP Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump!

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2006: What to Do if You Are Having Trouble Connecting With a Muscle, Diet & Workout Adjustments to Make if You Have Hit a Plateau, How to Stay Lean Without Being Obsessive About Food & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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