Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 203: Nick Cheadle Interview

Episode Date: December 17, 2015

Sal, Adam & Justin interview fitness celebrity, WBFF pro and Optimum Nutrition Athlete, Nick Cheadle. Learn how Nick trains and why he is one of the few fitness professionals that Mind Pump can get behind. Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Learn more about Mind Pump at www.mindpumpradio.com

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Uh, you introduce our boy. Huh? Introduce them. Well, how about you introduce themselves? Since I, Nick and I had briefly met, Nick, this is Adam who's talking to you right now.

We got a chance to briefly meet at Olympia. I got a chance to run over to him. He was busy as shit though taking pictures and shaking hands with Nick How do you pronounce your last name? It's Chetal as if it was a double A Nick Cheetal very good fitness celebrity. Love your page man Thank you great information One of the one of the few pages on Instagram that is accurate, that actually has accurate, good advice for everyday people who want to get in better shape.

I appreciate that. I definitely sure I can help, because I can. Nick, share with us a little bit of your background. Obviously, you've had to be in fitness for quite some time to have the knowledge that you have. Where does a lot of your fitness knowledge come from? Yeah, so I've been, I guess, in the industry for probably seven or eight years now I started off as a personal trainer when I was about 19. Pretty fresh out of school.

I decided I really wanted to get into the whole sort of learning about how our body works and how we can make it better. Pretty quickly after our left school and from there I guess PT just seemed like the logical route. For me you know when I first began I was really into the whole cleaning thing you know I really sort of ate in a restrictive manner thinking that it would ultimately get me to where I want to be and And I guess as a consequence moving forward, it's ultimately molded who I am now,

and really sort of sparked an interest in how can we do this in a more sustainable manner. And from there, I guess I've done a few courses, which have sort of helped me learn about specific topics along the way, and ultimately a lot of research myself. I think following the right sort of people on social media and the right sort of people that share the information that they know and love as well has really helped. But I guess at the end of the day it's a desire to learn more and ultimately put in time

to really do the research and figure out how we can do things better. Now when I look at your Instagram and some of the stuff you post, it seems like your workout philosophy centers around a lot of, you know, the big gross motor movement compound exercises, more of your full body type routines, not so much of your body parts splits. Is that correct? And if that is, how did you come upon that? Because, you know, the opposite is what's so popular nowadays. And it's kind of hard to cut through that baloney.

Yeah, man. So when I first started, I was really into my high volume style training. But I guess more recently, definitely looking at, I incorporated a lot more strength based working into my training. I guess I think the best way to consider it is sort of a power building style training regime where we're looking at incorporating some strength and power lifting style movements. Obviously some big heavy compound lifting with more of the bodybuilding type, I guess exercises and training sessions as well.

So to be honest, the way I got into it, I had a bit of a shoulder injury which really restricted what I could do in the gym. So I just decided to get to try and get pretty good or get a lot stronger at squatting in deadlifting because that was just about what I could do in the gym, which led me to periodize training and daily undulating periodization and a way to incorporate that into my routine so I could ultimately use that to grow and progress in an optimal manner. It's all about playing around with intensities and frequency of training in order to ultimately increase volume over time. And now it's just, I guess, you practice anything

enough because of habit, but it's also something that I really enjoy and ultimately allows me to continue progressing in the fashion that I like. How frequent do you train each body part? Because you talked about frequency. Is it like the typical ones a week, or do you find better results training more frequently throughout the week for the body?

Yeah, so I guess the way that I train is slightly different to the typical bodybuilding routine. I try and hit everything two to three times per week and structure my training accordingly. So without fail every week, I'll be squatting deadlifting and ideally bench pressing two to three times per week depending on the phase of training on that I mean rather and my specific focus at the time.

I will look at adding in specific accessory work on any given day in order to make sure that throughout the course of the week I'm ultimately hitting each muscle group at twice, and any of that I wish to work on three times if possible. As you mentioned, you do tend to focus more on the compound movements. For me now, I don't really train arms and carbs and stuff like that all that regularly. For me, it's more about maintenance of those smaller muscle groups. I'd rather focus on the bang for buck stuff, what's going to get me the best return given the time I'm spending in the gym. Very, very similar to how I train. Only I have to hit calves like four or five times where I'll say that just a tibia. So I already have excessly small calves if those don't get introduced in there and fucked.

But that's very similar. I've had the pleasure of got, you, Nick you remember when we first touched basis It was a couple of years ago right on I don't know if you remember that or not I've been falling you since then. I've been falling you since I don't think you had more than 10,000 followers back then And it was a wall ago. I think yeah, I think it was definitely a couple of years ago now. Yeah, yeah It's been quite yeah being some it's been great too because you like Sal was saying, there's probably a handful of pages that I actually get on and actually read the content because I enjoy

what they have to say because I actually say a lot of intelligent stuff and you happen to be one of those few. This is the reason why I've been fighting for the, to get you on the show for some time. So I wanted to talk to you a little bit because I got a chance, I watched you go through this also way back when you first were doing the WBFF and you first, before you even got sponsored

by Optin Nutrition. Kind of talked to me about that. Was that something that was an ultimate goal for you when you first got into competing? Like what made you want to compete? Was it ultimately for business? I mean, what was going through your head with that whole process? I'm curious.

And the very first time I competed was, I guess for a number of reasons, the very first show I did was probably four or five years ago now. For me at the time my entire focus was just about being shredded. And looking back on the photos, I look like a skinny teenager on stage to be perfectly honest. But at the time, it was a goal that I wanted to achieve. And to be honest, I made a bet with a mate at the time that was a bit of a competition who could make it onto the cover of a magazine first.

And the competition that I ended up choosing had that as the first prize. So that was one of the reasons I ended up doing that show. And I guess from there, it just became a little bit more about being able to showcase, I guess, my skills or the way that I can do things. I did the WBFF show, I guess, in April last year 2014, because I really wanted to bring everybody along with me on the way and show how I could incorporate flexible dieting principles into a competition prep.

Back then, I guess if it fits your microbes and flexible dieting was really, I guess, just started coming out of the woodwork and I really wanted to show people that you don't have to leave this, you know, just completely boring and restrictive lifestyle in order to get stage lean. Fish and tolapia only, right?

The fish and tolapia diet that most competitors do. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I'm pretty much the only one backstage just sucking down water. Everyone else is absolutely terrified of the stuff. But for me, yeah, I just wanted to use that as an outlet and use it as an opportunity to show that you don't have to do stuff the hard way to get to what you want to be. And I guess now moving forward, whilst I don't really ever, I don't think I'll ever consider myself a competitor, I think it's important to continue to do just to ensure that I stay

relevant and show that I can still, I guess, walk the walk. What do you see in the fitness industry now that, I guess, gets on your nerves the most? Or what do you see in the fitness industry now that makes you shake your head? Because there's a lot of things that we talk about on the show. And I'm just wondering if you see some of the same stuff we do. Yeah, I guess there's a few things.

There's a, I don't want to be bad now if anyone, or look at AMI specific individuals, but I've always been a fan of, I guess, honesty being the best policy. I think there's a lot of mixed being perpetuated in the fitness industry by people that have, you know, maybe a lot of people following them or a lot of the pool within the industry, rather than, you know, essentially saying, this is actually what I do, rather than, you know, pushing products or doing that sort of stuff. I think there's a lot of people in the industry that may have a big following, but maybe they haven't got that following because they know a great deal about the actual process. I think if there are more people interested

in the education aspect of how to do things and how to go about training and nutrition and that's what I thought. I think the industry in itself would be a better place. I think we'll live with that. Your approach has, health and longevity seem to be priorities as part of your approach, not just the way you look, but rather living a healthy lifestyle. Is that accurate?

Absolutely, man, I think. Ultimately, most people get into the gym because they wanna look better. Right, I reckon 99% of people come into the gym because they want to look better. Which is absolutely fine. I mean, that is legitimately the reason that I first started training. I think everyone is fairly similar in that regard. With that said, it's not like we all want to look good for just a short amount of time.

Given the opportunity, I'm sure everybody that walks in in the gym will say, yeah, I absolutely want to look my very best for as long as possible. For me, it's always been about figuring out how you can do that in the healthiest and longest way possible. I guess the longevity thing is key, but in order for it to be sustainable in that regard, it typically has to be healthy too. So the two come hand in hand. I guess for me when I first started doing the whole clean eating and restrictive lifestyle type approach, I just felt there was always going to be a time limit on it. And I really felt like I could only stick to my approach for so long before I'd ultimately forced the wagon. So for me originally it became about how can I do this in a manner that is conducive to

longer term success. And for me that is the biggest thing because if you are getting into training and nutrition and bettering your physique and furthering your training career you really need to do it in a way that you can see yourself up for long term success, otherwise you are likely going to continue to crash a bit. Now do you train people personally, also, or do you just do the online virtual stuff with your programs? Yeah, man.

So I still do one-on-one personal training sessions. It obviously has taken something of a backseat over the last sort of year or so, but I still do anywhere between to the 10-20 personal training sessions a week. I work out of a the gym franchise in Australia, fitness first. I work at one of the gyms just in the North Sydney. A gym that's bad out there, wasn't it? You got a great gym by the way. A gym looks bad ass. don't know if you think it was a bit. You got a great gym by the way. A gym looks bad ass. Yeah, I think we got renovated and re-furbished about a year or so ago and we absolutely lucked in.

We got the absolute pick of the equipment. We got all of the lifting platforms and the racks and it's a great place to train. We're very lucky. We're very lucky. How has fitness over there in Australia? From what I heard, it's pretty big. Yeah, I think it's big. I don't think it's anywhere near on the scale that it is in the US. I know for me personally, I obviously

travel to the States in just in September for the Olympics and I've got to spend some time in LA and I've got to spend some time in Vegas as well. The scene in LA is just awesome. It's an absolute buzz. It feels like there's a lot of people that are all there for the same purpose. I think in Australia, everything is just a little bit more spread out.

No one's really sort of in a concentrated area, and there isn't that same sort of buzz or certainly not to the extent or level of intensity that there was in L.A. I think hopefully it will be great to see the Australian scene get to that. But I think definitely in L.A. It's a much busier experience

and in the States in general I think. I want to talk to you a little bit about the business side for you because for us, it's really important, especially when we have somebody on here that we have a lot of respect for as far as how you conduct business. We consider you one of the people who's kind of ahead of the curve in terms of the direction of the fitness industry. Yeah, as far as training philosophy and your views on nutrition, your views on training,

and just how you deliver that. The message that you're trying to send, which is very, very views on training, and just how you deliver that. And the message that you're trying to send, which is very, very important to us, and it's important to us too, that we can represent someone like that and plug you that way. So tell us a little bit about what you do for revenue right now.

I mean, what is your, you said you only train about 20 hours, so if that's kind of taking a back seat, obviously you're probably doing a lot of business virtually, or you may mostly coaching clients, how does that work? I mean, I've kind of taking a back seat, obviously you're probably doing a lot of business virtually. Are you mostly coaching clients? How does that work? I mean, I've kind of dug in a little bit of your website. Tell me how that works for you. Oh, well, I appreciate the plug, guys.

Yeah, so the majority of my business is based around online coaching. I think for me, the challenge has always been how best to scale without necessarily losing the individualised approach. I think there's a lot of options out there as far as generic cookie cutter programmes. And that is obviously one of the big things that I really can't stand. Whilst obviously a good owner, if you've got a large audience, throw them to, I'm really against the whole one size fits all approach. So I work individually with all of my clients,

the majority of which is all, as you guys say, virtually based. I run a lot of stuff through email. I have a big Facebook group for all of my clients so we can all interact together. And from there, it's basically ongoing communication. I work one-on-one with each client that I have. I don't employ anybody. For me, it's all about making sure that,

at the end of the day, the client is happy. So programming, nutrition and training-wise, all comes down to specific goals, current body composition versus target body composition, and obviously working within their means So that means coming up with something that is obviously as discussed sustainable and something they can stick to for a long period of time so over, you know, over time they're looking at making lifestyle changes and Really growing to a lifestyle that I can continue for the rest of

growing into a lifestyle that I can continue for the rest of the years to come. As far as, I guess, other sources of revenue, I've got a couple of books coming out. My website is soon to be re-launched. I'm really hoping. It's been a three month process that is now up to month 10. So there's going to be a membership-based section of my new website as well, so I guess help with that level of scale as far as business is concerned. But again, looking at putting out a higher quality of information for people that are wanting to subscribe more, I guess, training based videos and technique stuff, as well as a lot more interactive processes on how to do things for yourself. So people can take stuff away and apply it to their own training and essentially write things for themselves.

I recently did a newsletter blast, I guess you could call it, it was basically a course, which people can subscribe to for a small fee, which basically told them how to write their own strength programs. So they could continuously do so, time and time again to make sure that they continue making progress and so on and so forth. So things like that are what I'm concentrating on now. I guess for me it's now a process of how can I get that further scale without removing the individualized nature of the service and product that I'm trying to push. Which is really tough to do.

I mean, that's, I like you. I do the same thing. A majority of my business has done virtually. And I really have a hard time once I get over about 10 to 15 people. I try and limit myself because I've been up to 20 before and I find it really tough. I just don't have the systems in place to give that individual touch so I normally have to cut off at that point and then I just have a waiting list. Have you found yourself the ability to scale up further than that or about how many people do you carry at a time? How does

that work for you? Yeah and it's definitely something that I've become better at doing over time. Time management was a really issue for me when I first began the online coaching. I really didn't have any systems in place when I first began either. But I think over time I've learned how to manage more and take on a few more clients. I typically draw the line around the 50 mark, but that being said, that's largely in line with the fact that I only do 10 to 20 sessions a week. So the rest of my time is literally spent on the computer. I have more than enough time to sort of manage out about a client, but I do find if I get over that number then that is where the waiting list will come into play or I'll shut down. I think earlier this year I took two months off rather I stopped taking

clients for a period of about two months to make sure that I could continue to give my current clients the level of service that I feel that is over. But for me probably that 50 mark is around where I sit or definitely draw the line because I agree the level of individualization definitely begins to decrease as you increase your client base. For me, I've always wanted to make sure that none of my clients walk away thinking I was just a number. Now you get a lot of your clients through social media, I'm assuming? Yeah, probably a vast majority of.

Yeah. Now, how did you grow your page so large? Because I know there's a lot of people listening. I have a lot of trainers that listen to Mind Pump. And people who want to be in the industry. And the reality of today's fitness is social media is a big part of it. It wasn't 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

But today, if you're not taking advantage of social media, you're missing out. You have any advice or tips on how to grow a pig. I think you have how many how many followers you have on Instagram Sorry over a quarter million is over a quarter million now, right? So Yeah, any tips Yeah, look I've always I've always can know you know I've always thought that the more I give out the more I typically tend to get back I've always tried to

Ask myself why should people be following you? And for me, because I've never considered myself an athlete, I've never really thought about just posting up, you know, photos of my physique or photos of my hours or whatever and just hoping that people will follow me because I like the way they look. I've always tried to add value to everything that I put up. Every single post that I put up is either well thought out, trying to drive people to something else which they will benefit from, or trying to add value to their own training or nutrition or whatever in one way or another. And I think ultimately the more engaging the content you put out, the more people are

likely to ultimately engage with it. And if you can encourage them to tag their friends or like your content, and there's every chance of that going more viral. And then obviously once you get to a stage where maybe you can throw a little bit cash out of them, I would absolutely suggest getting in touch with some of the bigger pages and supplementing with some of the big pages and supplementing with some Instagram, Star, Live, and Tausing. Unless you're mind-pump and you've talked shit about 90% of them, nobody wants to post

you on the phone. And you probably want to get them all the downloads. Nick, do you, are you pretty regular as far as listening to Mind Pump? Have you listened to a lot of episodes or what, I know you're a busy guy and stuff, but have you had a chance to listen to a lot of the shows? I haven't listened to as many as I would have liked to see it. I've got them down one.

It's just a matter of finding the time. I've had a couple of young guys emphasize their good. So because you're a trainer, we have a lot of people listening. You want to hear some fitness advice. List your top five most effective exercises. What do you consider to be the most effective exercise? Because you talked about bang for your buck.

Exercise is that really give you the most results for the time that you spend doing now. Yeah, your five favorite. Yeah, what are your top five? Top five. All right. Without doubt, squat is number one for sure. If you're looking for a full body exercise, that is it. People underestimate how many muscles you actually use when squatting. In fact, today's newsletter, if you guys have signed up, is discussing

the movement in its entirety. But squat would absolutely be number one. Do you perform that squat high reps, low reps? what have you found to be the best for you? Do or do you do it all? Yeah, man, I do it all. So I guess, uh, you know, you heard me mention do you pity daily angelating periodization? Uh a little bit earlier on basically that refers to fluctuating intensities and ultimately weights in order to increase the volume over time. So there is definite advantage, a definite advantage to incorporating multiple rep ranges at multiple percentages of your target one at max in order to increase strength and ultimately

hypertrophy over time. Obviously, provided the nutrition is on point to do so. So, typically, what I will do is, at least once a week, I'll hit a higher rep star squat session and a lower rep heavier squat session to make sure that I'm obviously targeting as many muscle fibers as possible while I was working on both strength and hypertrophy style rep ranges basically. But I mean

you definitely can't beat the squat as far as bang for buck exercises goes it hits your legs, you core, your back, it absolutely knackers you as far as you say an SS concerned and if you are doing a higher up set of squats it's pretty much like cardio. You guys are not that for sure. Oh yeah, nothing's made me throw up before except for squats. It's one of the most challenging. What's exercise number two? Exactly.

Definitely deadlift again because it just recruits so many muscles. It's just a huge posterior chain targeting exercise. You're looking at your, your hammies, your glutes, your lower back, your upper back. Again, this core activation involves, it's just a hugely demanding exercise. So if you've got a very limited amount of time in the gym, I'd be squatting and deadlifting for sure. There's absolutely no doubt about that. they would be number one and two. From there, again, I'd stick with compound movements.

So obviously the bench press or a variation of a bench press is going to be number three for me, just to essentially round out the full body style approach. Squats and deads hit just about every muscle, except for the chest and maybe the shoulders. Even then you've got a deadlift and sort of target in the red delts for a certain extent. With the bench press obviously that helps with hitting chest and shoulders. Again, compound movements which incorporate the movement of more than two joints, you're going to be looking at using the most amount of muscles I think I've had press the problem in number four

In terms of bang for bucket least again another compound movement Good for obviously targeting the other shoulders and the arms Number five I Mean probably probably some form of dip. I think I would round out that process of hitting the full body pretty effectively, I think. I tell you what, you can, I can almost always, not always, but I can almost always tell

when someone trains what I call properly, okay, because I personally think there's a right way and a wrong way to train in terms of really maximizing results. I think I can tell you train the right way. When you look at you, you look, you're as strong as you look. You can tell your body's functional in that sense. Whereas sometimes you see people on posing or flexing

and they look cartoonish, but they also don't look, something doesn't look right about them. It looks like they're not, it looks like they'll have problems doing anything outside of the gym. Does that make sense? Well, thank you, Matt, I appreciate that. I've always tried to, I guess, practice what I preach.

Yeah, there's a lot of armchair coaches out, and I think it's probably nowadays, unfortunately, almost a point of difference if you can, I guess, lead by example. So I've always tried to do that just to... Well, I was blown away when I saw you, because you don't list anywhere, and you don't talk about ever much of your personal stats as far as your height, your weight, and things like that. You don't really get into that very much. And I was surprised to see you were damn near

almost as tall as I was when I first saw you. I was expecting to see about a 5'8 to a 5'10 guy at best because I was static you are. A thousand other guys, you what are you? Are you 6'61? How tall are you? Yeah, I'm about 6'1. Yeah. So 186 centimeters. And some around 90, I guess 95, 96 kilos,

depending on how tall I am with my diet, which at the moment is not all that tight. But yes, I guess for you guys, that's around. It's two and a main pounds. Two and a half to to ten pounds something like that So yeah, I get that a lot actually I think a lot of people are surprised at how tall I am. I think Yeah, I guess I've been lucky with how I've sort of managed to get my legs to grow so Think people automatically see that and think I must be sure

Yeah, no, it's that too and you you know, I and I see I meet so many and I've got a lot of buddies that are pro physique and bodybuilding competitors. And a majority of people I feel like they put all their best physique pictures up and they're all inflated and diced up for a show and they got professional photos. I feel like you present in real life as good or a better physique than what you present on there, which is rare to see. Normally you run into somebody I feel like, and I don't know if you feel the same way, run around these conventions and stuff,

you run into somebody like, God, man, I thought he was so much bigger because I've seen all his Instagram, but you're the opposite. And I always like to get that same feeling when someone runs into me, they're like, Oh, shit, that guy's a big dude. I didn't realize he was that big

until I met him in person. See, the opposite happens for me. People meet me and they're like, Oh, you look bigger on Instagram than you do in person. You know what I find very fascinating. When we look at some of these people that train a particular way and their body reflects it, the concepts are very similar because there's some general truths when it comes to fitness. A lot of what you're saying is very similar to our program maps in terms of undulating, we call it phasing,

phase 1, phase 2, phase 3. We focus heavily on those big, gross motor movements. We focus on frequency of stimulation, instead of having super long marathon workouts, you do your workout, but then you hit the muscles more you know, more frequently to get that that, you know, protein synthesis activated, you know on a frequent basis. Those themes are true among a lot of people like yourself, you know, trainers who actually have success training other people. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think you know, going back to the whole sustainability and longevity thing, there are obviously

slightly different approaches within the constraints of science that are going to work for the other people. At the end of the day, if you can continue increasing volume and you're eating enough for your goals, you're going to get to where you want to be, you know, for the most part. And I think if you can obviously make those approaches for the specific to yourself and, you know, way that is going to be conducive to long-term progress and success, then, then absolutely. But you're right in saying that the fundamental principles are all the same. They may just apply it slightly differently. Well, you know, it's been a pleasure talking to you, but before we sign off, what are your best lifts?

Give me your best deadlift and your best squat, because whenever I talk to a guest, I wanna make sure I'm stronger than them. And if I'm not, then... Did it's the last time we have you on the show? That's the last time, now. Now give us your best deadlift and your best squat. Yeah, what are your, no, it's Ben.

I don't know, Bench, too. Ben to bench squad deadlift. What are your PRs? Okay, so I think I haven't tested my one right maxes for a while, but I think the last time I could just squat I hit 230 kilos So you know guys That's a 500 pound squat. Yeah, so that was for one. I can do four of five for a set of 10, I think. And then my daily life was two to 60, I think. So about five seventy two pounds.

And my bench, as I mentioned, I had a shoulder injury, so I typically incline bench. So that was around around the 300 pound mark. Thank God. Well, it's something I could do better. You beat me in everything, but I got you. I'm deadlift by about three pounds. So I'm going to request you stop deadlift thinking immediately. It's been a pleasure talking.

You're right. One more thing. I want everyone to be able to find, you know, here's a thing too. Oh, yeah, there you go. I've got a, I do have a large waiting list to coach and I would never send any of my people anywhere that I wouldn't highly recommend.

You're one of the people that I would love to see people that can't get in with myself to get into coaching virtually with you. Where are the best places for them to find you? Social media wise, website wise, what's the best places for them to find you? Social media wise, website wise, what's the best places? Yeah, man, so you guys can find me on Instagram. My username is Nick Cheatle Fitness. I've also got a Facebook page with the same name Nick Cheatle Fitness, so obviously three words on there. NickCheatleFitness.com is where I do most of my blogging and post

all of my articles. There'll be a very new version of that website out shortly. You can also sign up for my free news that are via my website. And if you guys have any questions I want to get in touch, my email is Nick at nickchegelfitness.com. Awesome. Thanks, brother. We'll be in touch, man. Hey, guys, thank you very much for having me on.

It's been a pleasure. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. For more information about this show and to get valuable free resources from Sal, Adam, and Justin, visit us at www.mindpumpradio.com. Until next time, this is Mind Pump.