Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2030: Mind Pump Trainer Highlight- Braydon Barrett

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode, we did a trainer coach highlight. We interviewed Braden Barrett. We love this guy.

Starting point is 00:00:26 He's awesome on social media. In fact, we plan on doing episodes like this, moral episodes like this in the future, where we find really, really good influencers on platforms like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Place where we find these great people that are giving good messages that are helping people the right way.

Starting point is 00:00:44 Well, this guy really stands out to us. You need to follow him He's got great information on strength training fat loss nutrition I mean the whole deal you can find them on all those platforms at look like you left and it is today's episode We interview him his philosophy how we got to where he's at now and where he's going. By the way, this episode is brought to you by NCI. This is one of the best certification courses for online coaches. So here's what they do. They could teach you how to be a great coach

Starting point is 00:01:13 with nutrition coaching. They also teach you how to build your business. In fact, this is what they're getting famous for. They take online coaches and teach them how to make six figures. And some of them seven figures, and look, I'm not making this up, I have actually seen what these trainers and coaches

Starting point is 00:01:28 have done by using the NCI methods. So they teach you how to be a good coach, but they also teach you how to build a great business. And they have special offers for mind pump listeners. In fact, we're their top sponsor, one of the top places that they sponsor. So go check out the special offer only for our listeners if you're interested in being a good online coach or just building your business.

Starting point is 00:01:51 Go to NCIMinePump.com forward slash 500 off. Also, we got a sale going on this month. We've taken a few programs and bundled them together in discount of the price heavily. So check this out. Maps 15 minutes, maps anywhere, maps prime, and we also have an ebook called Eat for Performance. We put them all in a bundle together and took over $200 off. So all you pay for all of those, all of those together

Starting point is 00:02:19 is $99.99. This is only happening this month. So if you're interested, you have to ask soon. If you're interested, just go to mapsmarch.com. All right, here comes the show. Braden, welcome to the show, man. Hey, thanks, man. Awesome. So you got our attention a while ago because there was a clip from one of our podcasts where we were talking about, I think it was me, what I was talking about, the deadlift and how great of a work exercise

Starting point is 00:02:47 it was to develop the back and then some numb nuts to answer. He's actually a pretty popular kid on TikTok. Yeah, he's popular for the wrong reasons. We'll put it that way. And he was trying to talk about, and I've heard the story moving before, a biomechanics of the lat, started back exercise,

Starting point is 00:03:04 blah, blah, blah, and he's trying to take down the video. And then you did like a take down of what he said. So got our attention. And we're like, okay, this is cool. And the way you explained yourself was very intelligent, but also easy to understand, which is, it's hard to find that combination in our space. So we went through your stuff. Who is this guy? And we found that you do a really good job. And one thing we're trying to do on the show, we've done this since we started, but trying to do more of it even now, is highlight good coaches and trainers in our space.

Starting point is 00:03:39 So people have more good people to follow because there's not a lot out there. The fitness space is pretty wild, as you already know. So that's why we have you on the show, man. Wow, thanks for having me. Thanks for the month. So tell us a little bit about yourself, your history. You've been a trainer for over a decade. I hear you saying your videos.

Starting point is 00:03:58 Coming up on 10 years. Okay. How did you start and what got you in the social media space? Yeah, so rewind back to high school. I worked on a farm, my whole childhood and teenage years, and I was always the weakest one on the farm. I was the run of the litter. And so I was like, I need to throw bales of hay

Starting point is 00:04:16 faster than these guys. So I got into strength training in my senior year of high school. Got into powerlifting. And what I found is I was getting into powerlifting. I really enjoyed teaching other people how to do it as well. I was a really big passion of mine. And like through my whole high school, you know, I taught people how to swim, how to snowboard,

Starting point is 00:04:36 you know, how to do all these different things. And I really enjoyed watching other people accomplish things. So all through, you know, going through college, I got to intern with some of the strength coaches of the universities, and then I went on to compete in powerlifting from there. And then I found a really stupid sport called Strongman. And I say it's stupid because it's literally who can pick up the most awkward object for the most amount of weight, for most amount of reps, the fastest amount of time, without

Starting point is 00:05:04 blowing your back out. So, I got into that, fell in love with it, and where amount of reps, the fastest amount of time. Yeah. For the same. Blowin' your back out. So I got into that, fell in love with it, and where I was living at the time, some of the world's strongest competitors lived in that area as well. So I was really lucky to, like, be their pupil and got to train with them and work with them. And so from there, got more into strength training,

Starting point is 00:05:22 worked with more big names, mentored, mentored with some of the, some of the really big names in the strength world, and here we are. What made you go to the social media route? I'll tell you make money. Because you said April, he's not 45 like you, that's why. Unfortunately, in this day and age, you have to be on social media to make a name for yourself.

Starting point is 00:05:43 But frankly, honestly, I don't really like social media that much, but I do it because I have to. Were you on it as a kid in high school? Unfortunately, yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I love listening to somebody's journey because we are a bunch of old funny studies that didn't exist when we were in high school. What was your journey of using social media originally,

Starting point is 00:06:05 probably as a way to hang out, talk to people, and so like that, and then the transition into utilizing it as a tool to build a business. Yeah, yeah, so I mean, when Facebook and Twitter and Instagram all those kind of came out, I was still really young. And so what I ended up doing is just using that to just post, I got this new PR,

Starting point is 00:06:22 I just did this on my squat, and then I noticed people started commenting, like, hey, you can squat. Can you teach me how to squat? And so I started using it as a space to debunk some of the big fitness things, and then it just kind of grew from there, and then I learned that while I have my personal training business here on the side, I can also use social media to reach a much greater audience at the same time, an international audience. So was that not the intent right out the gates where were you just sharing to share and then you realized?

Starting point is 00:06:47 I was just sharing to share, just teaching because I love teaching and then all of a sudden, I figured out, oh, social media, I can use this to make money off of this and actually have, before online coaching was a thing, I could use it as an online coaching tool. Now, I don't know this, but it seems obvious to us that you've coached in person a lot more or first.

Starting point is 00:07:06 Yes. 100%. I was in the trenches and I think anybody who wants to be a successful coach, you have to be in person. You have to be in person. Explain that why. We talk about that a lot. You will learn in valuable lessons from working one-on-one with an individual, both tactile,

Starting point is 00:07:22 cues, lessons. You will see the reactions in someone's face when they get it. You can't learn that from going from a textbook to just speaking on camera and just doing things online. Everybody wants to be an online coach because it's easy, right? But you have to earn your right to do that. You have to work in the trenches and you have to learn those lessons along the way of how can I make this work for someone before you can have the dare I say authority to move into the online world.

Starting point is 00:07:49 So yeah, just just cues, for example, which is just one piece of this like queuing an exercise. I couldn't imagine learning how to cue properly virtually. You had to learn how to cue properly. Right. I learned that in person because when you're working with someone, you queue one way, you queue a different way. And then you see, oh, this is what works.

Starting point is 00:08:10 This is what gets the person kind of moving this direction, saying it this way or noticing a particular movement pattern and saying it this way. But if I did that online, there's no way I would have figured that out. I would have said stuff like, oh, pull your shoulders down rather than, pull your chest up to the bar, for example. Right, yeah, 100%. Like, I need to see more lumbar extension. Yeah. Yeah, what does that mean?

Starting point is 00:08:32 Nobody knows. Point your butt hole up to the sky. There we go. No, we got it, right? So you don't learn that from a textbook. You learn that from working one on one with thousands of people in person all built so differently.

Starting point is 00:08:43 That's how you figure that out. And you have to, I don't know, man, there's so many invaluable lessons that come from one-on-one. And honestly, like now, so with my business, I only do online right now. I'm considering just renting out a spot at a local cross-fit box,

Starting point is 00:08:57 just so I can hone those skills, because I can tell I'm kind of getting a little rusty on my coaching and my cues. So I wanna go back to the one-on-one, so I can continue to improve. I've kept one client just because of that. Just to keep me grounded and remind, and I'm crazy, what a 20-something year's been doing this,

Starting point is 00:09:14 it still provides me content for on here, because she comes up with something, and I should train him forever, and I'm like, oh man, I forget. Like, we talk on this damn podcast all the time. I forget how simple a little Q or tip like that could change her movement pattern or even like her habits around in gym, nutrition, all the above.

Starting point is 00:09:33 Like, no, it's wild. What a difference that makes. Did you start at a big box gym? A small, what kind of gym did you start off at? Yeah, so I hopped from Jim to Jim. My first ones were like just a big franchise, one of their in-house trainers, didn't like that. And that was when I came exposed

Starting point is 00:09:53 to kind of the structure of these big box shims and how they make money. And I was like, don't like this. Talk about that. From an ethical standpoint, it doesn't make sense. So one of the biggest issues that I saw in more so like the big box personal training community is they want you to train in a specific manner, in a specific model,

Starting point is 00:10:15 no matter how outdated that model might be, they still want you to follow this specific model. And then they try to sell these packages of, you know, six month one, your package is several thousands of dollars that you only meet with your trainer once a week. That didn't really make sense to me and I didn't really like that. And so I learned, I was like, okay,

Starting point is 00:10:32 I don't, this doesn't really align with my ethics. You can make a lot of money doing it, but I didn't like that. So I left, did things more independently, and again, I had a great opportunity to do this independently, but I was able to do so in a way where I could do it with the models that I knew worked. Training three or four times a week with a person and doing something that was fair and again ethical.

Starting point is 00:10:53 And then I got into the whole group fitness franchises and I saw all the crazy things that they do there that don't really make sense or are unethical or we could talk more about that, but I saw a lot of things on the back end of fitness that I'm like, okay, this is everything that everybody does that is wrong, how about we take this a different approach and do this in a actual helpful manner

Starting point is 00:11:14 in an ethical manner? Yeah, yeah. So what prompted you to see, or how long did it take you, I would say, to see some of the faults in I guess, the industry and how it both sells fitness, teaches fitness, talks about nutrition, because it took me, I mean, all honesty, it took me five years

Starting point is 00:11:34 to start to get good. It took me 10 years to be good, just to really be good at what I did. So it sounded like training or like marketing. I mean, just how to really see, like, oh, these are the lies. This doesn't work. This works. This is how I should communicate things.

Starting point is 00:11:50 It took me a while to figure that out. Like I as an early train, I would get clients and I'd just hammer them. Oh, you want to get sweat, you know, when you want to sweat and get sore and take all these supplements and because that's what we think works. That's right. So how long did it take you to kind of figure that out? Sounds like you got there pretty quick. So I've all, I've been really lucky that I always approach everything

Starting point is 00:12:08 in my life with the scientific approach. So in the scientific method, when you have a claim or hypothesis or anything, you first seek out to disprove it. And if you have a hard time disproving it, chances are you're in the right direction. If it's really easy to disprove it, then you know it is wrong.

Starting point is 00:12:25 A lot of people would go about the other way. They go into something, take their hypothesis, they're claim they try to confirm it. Anybody can do that, right? So I've always had that habit of any kind of claim, all right, I'm gonna go out and try to just prove this. If I have a hard time, it's wrong. If I have a hard time disproving it, it might be right.

Starting point is 00:12:40 If it's easy, then it's wrong. So with everything in the fitness industry, you can kind of approach it that way. Okay, so creatine HCl is better than monohydrate. Okay, let's find out. Let's try to put that to the test. Let's challenge it. And then you find, oh, wait, it's not. Okay. So it's a scam. Right. So that's just kind of how I approached everything from a really early age. And drive your parents nuts. Dude, yeah. That's it. Mom, why is the sky blue? It just is.

Starting point is 00:13:09 But why, though? So that's the, so really early on, I would say, it's like I would, I would skeptical of everything. And luckily, because I was so skeptical, I could figure out a lot of the faults

Starting point is 00:13:21 and a lot of the misinformation in the fitness industry. Now science will get you far, but then there's the behavioral aspect of working with people, right? 100%. Especially with nutrition. We could communicate what works, what doesn't work, and toward blue in the face, but getting someone to understand and follow through and develop a good relationship with nutrition. That's a whole nother ball game.

Starting point is 00:13:45 How did you figure that part out? What did that process look like for you? There's a model that I run, both my coaching and how I work with my coaches with, and that we use this model of concept, literature application. We have the general concept of what generally works. We know this through empirical evidence for the past 100 years of this space. Can we take the science and find this to confirm it? But then most important, the bottom chunk, which is application. How can we apply everything that we're learning? Because there's

Starting point is 00:14:16 new sports and sports and conditioning studies always coming out every single week, right? But how can we apply that? And that's where a lot of people miss it. And that's where we, you know, a lot of things that we talk about may not quite coincide with the studies, but it works in the real world application. So I think there is room for anecdotes, especially in our field. To answer your question. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense because to give an example of that, this sound silly to say now, but because we've been doing this for so long, strength training

Starting point is 00:14:51 was, when we started, never considered a form of exercise for longevity. Sure. Definitely not considered a form of exercise for fat loss. Sure. It was not a fat loss form of exercise. It was all about cardio, cardio, cardio. Right. And we have the big strength names with the big fat burly guys. Right. cardio, cardio. And we didn't have the big strength names, we're the big fat burly guys, right? That's what we thought. And a lot, there were no real science on it anyway. Nobody was studying strength training for longevity.

Starting point is 00:15:12 It was all about performance and how strong you could get. Yet in the, you know, whatever, in the trenches for lack of a better term, we saw, you know, people who worked on our gyms who just did cardio, and then we saw people who did strength training and we saw the arc of results and consistency, and how it was able to be maintainable.

Starting point is 00:15:28 And we, you know, as trainers, we're like, actually, this form of exercise is pretty damn good for fat loss, but there was nothing back in the up. So it was all anecdot at that point. Right. What are some of the biggest misconceptions then, when you get clients coming in, and, you know, they, they want fat loss, or they want to gain muscle like

Starting point is 00:15:46 What were some things you had to kind of like Reeducate them on Okay, there's a lot so Probably the biggest one that I have the greatest hurdle with is I get people who I've got back problems. I got knees problems Okay, we're gonna make you deadlift, we're gonna make you squat. That freaks them out because they think that there's some kind of porcelain doll and they can't put any kind of pressure on them or they're gonna shatter. But I have yet to have a client come to me who said they have a back issue and I've had

Starting point is 00:16:19 wide range of back issues. And I haven't had a single client go through within four weeks completely eliminate their back pain with the deadlift. So there's a little bit of like, you gotta trust me on this here, but I do my best to educate you along the way. So.

Starting point is 00:16:35 Yeah, how do you feel about this? Because we've seen this really weird cycle. When we started, we would manage these 30,000, 40,000 square foot gems and they would have one squat rack. And the squat rack would have dust on it. And forget deadlift thing. I mean, I would deadlift and members would stop me. I'm the manager of the gym.

Starting point is 00:16:55 They would stop me, but you're going to hurt your back. What are you doing? Then we saw it become popular through CrossFit. Think CrossFit did a really good job popularizing those. Now it seems to be trendy to shit on those exercises. Like, you don't need to squat. You don't need to deadlift. There's better exercise or whatever.

Starting point is 00:17:12 How do you feel about those things? I mean, especially as a power lifter. I get where they're coming from. The intention is there, but again, the application is horribly wrong. And we see, it's prominent in TikTok where they say, you don't need to bench press, you don't need to squat, you don't need to deadlifts, right? I get where they're coming from, but you have to remember the audience

Starting point is 00:17:35 that they're speaking to are young kids, underdeveloped kids. I have yet to, and I put this challenge out on TikTok and I have, I'm still waiting put this challenge out on TikTok, and I'm still waiting on a response. Like, TikTok, if you're listening, like, I'm still waiting for you here. Find me one exercise that not only improves neuroimuscular efficiency, trains the entire body at one time is infinitely scalable and is economical, whereas we can use a minimal number of sets

Starting point is 00:18:02 and volume and training frequency to grow the entire body all at once. That isn't the barbell that lived. Yeah, I'm waiting. Good luck. I'm waiting. So I'm willing to hear it out and so far no one's found anything. So again, I get where they're coming from and like as you get more advanced, yes,

Starting point is 00:18:21 the larger barbell movements may not have their time in place for you, but you're not there yet. You're still over here. Let's focus on these simpler exercises. But I think the reason why I take talk doesn't like talking about that is because these content creators have to reinvent the wheel to stay relevant to get their views.

Starting point is 00:18:40 It's not just that. It's also that you made a point earlier about how easy it is to confirm our own bias. And I remember, this is the reason why I have such a problem with that message is I remember being a teenage boy and I didn't want to squat in deadlift because it was hard. Nobody does. It was hard. And so I would glom onto any coach or trainer that would say, oh, you don't need to do that. Sure. And so that's the problem that I have with that message is is not, we're not talking about the six-year-old lady who's got all these conditions and issues that I need to address before I

Starting point is 00:19:10 barbell deadlift with her. Like I'm not worried about her. I'm worried about the 17-year-old, 19-year-old, 20-year-old young boy that's getting into lifting and is going, oh, I don't need to squat and deadlift because my favorite influencer tells me this way. It's like, dude, that is the single best thing. You could probably do for your body and where you're currently at in the journey.

Starting point is 00:19:28 And I wish that somebody would have hampered that home to me and I didn't wait until my mid-20s before became a staple in my program. Yeah, I mean, could you imagine how much further, physically, you could be if you had the time, if you put in the time to dedicate to those larger lists? I wish the same thing for myself too. Like I look at the clients that I work with

Starting point is 00:19:47 and they have, we have a very, very basic simple programming with those barbell lists and they're growing like weeds. Like man, jealous. Yeah. So. No, it's, I mean, the first program was map centabolic based off those lifts and people are, oh my god, I've never experienced gains like this before.

Starting point is 00:20:05 But this is after they look at and go, this doesn't look like anything fancy. Like, well, yeah, it's not, but follow it. Yeah, it's like the whole workout that is on our TikTok that is really popular right now. It's labeled the Sticky Note workout plan because you can fit it all on a sticky note. I've looked at it.

Starting point is 00:20:21 It's just a related version. But it's legit. It's legit, but it's just it's legit. It's legit. But it's better than 99% of the workouts that are online. I appreciate that. I can't claim it as mine. This is what I've gathered from like the last 10 years of doing this. It's simple and it's effective and it all fits on low sticky note. And you can ride that out for months and see incredible progress.

Starting point is 00:20:40 Totally. So do you think that because I remember when I really started to learn exercise programming, because programming, there's some publicity to it, but then there's also some complexity to it. Okay? Because it's not just, yeah, people think programming is like fancy exercises. Exercise is a part of it. There's reps and sets and rest periods and how they all work together in the week and how the weeks work together in the months and all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:21:03 And I remember when I first started learning about it, I realized that the best strength training, at least the most scientifically backed strength training programming came from the strength sports that where people actually had to lift more weight, power lifting and Olympic weight lifted. In particular, whereas bodybuilding, there's definitely science in bodybuilding but bodybuilding so subjective right that the best bodybuilder who wins isn't necessarily the one who's following the best programming but with like powerlifting and weightlifting the programming matter so much more and you know this you talk to bodybuilder you talk to Powerlifter. The Bodybuilder's focused much more on diet and the gear that are on.

Starting point is 00:21:46 Powerlifters and Weightlifters, they're super crazy about their workout programming. 100%. You started as a Powerlifter. Do you think that that gave you a huge advantage over other trainers in that realm? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, because of how analytical and how specific you have to be with your programming, because, like you said, the number one goal is, can I add weight to this barbell at the end of this mesocycle?

Starting point is 00:22:13 And yeah, it gave me a huge advantage. And in fact, right now, I've transitioned more into a little season of bodybuilding. I want to kind of chase this vein, see how far I can go with it. And because I have a programming background, this is way more comprehensive, way more, I can, I'm able to see more progress at this because of that programming background. So totally agree with that. Yeah, no, 100%.

Starting point is 00:22:32 I learned a lot. That was my advantage in bodybuilding. I saw that real quick, real quickly, when I got into the space, I found how many coaches and trainers just did not have that background. And it was all around diet and as burned as much as you possibly could and get shredded and what drugs could you take

Starting point is 00:22:49 and the programming piece. I mean, when I was competing, there was no, none of my peers were even deadlifting or squatting, at all. I mean, the still, I think it's prevalent today that they believe that it's going to widen your waist and so they don't want, you know, that's not a... Being fat winds, right.

Starting point is 00:23:07 Right. So I thought that was hilarious. And I remember, and I worked out in a gym here that's probably one of the more popular gyms for competitors. And I remember seeing all their programming with their doing like, oh man, this is going to be a huge advantage to me. And I really attribute that to one of the main reasons why I scaled up to the professional level so fast, because when I looked at my peers. I was like, oh my god. Do these guys don't know as much as I would expect

Starting point is 00:23:30 Of them to know based off of the way their body's look So you've gone further in bodybuilding and I have only done one show. So let me ask you Do you think your foundation of strength gave you the upper hand both from a physical standpoint and like a training standpoint when it came to competition? view the upper hand both from a physical standpoint and like a training standpoint when it came to competition. My strength, not so much, my knowledge around nutrition and exercise did. Because in that space, as you, if you haven't found out, you will, the, what I found quickly, and I've told this on the show many a time, so our audience is probably tired of hearing it from me.

Starting point is 00:24:01 But when I first walked into it, I was really excited. Like I thought at this point, I'm already been 10 years plus in fitness industry, now I'm going to get into the competing side. I had no knowledge of it whatsoever. So I go in and I'm actually really excited, I'm like, man, I'm going to get to learn. I'm going to meet a lot of like, these are the 1% of the 1% of the best bodies in the world. I'm going to get to get on stage with, I can't wait to pick their brain and find out, like what I found was not what I was expecting at all, was a lot of them, and not to take credit from them at all. I mean, they have this unbelievable discipline,

Starting point is 00:24:35 the ability to starve their body for an extended period of time and take zero days off and be incredibly meticulous about counting and tracking, That they were good at and like listening to what their coach told them. But the science to support a lot of what they were doing was just it wasn't there. A lot of it was terrible. And it gave me this huge advantage of like, oh wow. Like there was so many guys that couldn't figure out why every time they would cut for a show, then do this massive dirty bulk, why they had such a hard time getting as lean

Starting point is 00:25:08 following the same principles as they did the previous one. And it's because they would allow themselves to put on so much excess body fat in this office. They'd show up to stage and every show, it seemed like if they weren't creating more and more volume or more and more cardio or dieting even harder, they couldn't achieve the same look. Where for me, every show I was improving.

Starting point is 00:25:29 And I was like, I was eating more, having to do let, like it was just, and that was just because I was, I was, I had a much more scientific approach to my programming than I saw my peers. And that was all the way to the professional level. Most of these guys have coaches and teams that put them on radical extreme diets and just train them like crazy. And they get shredded. And some of them have, I don't think I have a genetic advantage. I definitely have a swimmer's body.

Starting point is 00:25:57 So I wasn't built for bodybuilding, but I had the advantage of nutrition and exercise programming on everybody. and that was what really, and I didn't play the political game either. I didn't hire coach, I didn't have a team that's kind of, it's tough to do that when you're by yourself. Like that tends to help you out a lot

Starting point is 00:26:15 if you're with a big name coach or a big team that everybody knows. As far as like, like winning, yeah. Really? Oh yeah. Well it's judged. Well yeah, and you got so, So the way the shows are set up, because I've done one show and I had a coach,

Starting point is 00:26:29 but he was a smaller name. It wasn't part of like a team. Yeah, so the teams are what teams and big name coaches are where it's at because those guys sponsor a lot of these shows. And so they're the money behind a lot of these shows. Yeah. And so, and they're, you know,

Starting point is 00:26:44 rubbing elbows with the coaches like, hey, these are my five competitors. So. And so, and they're, you know, rubbing elbows with the coaches, like, hey, these are my five competitors. So if it was you and another guy, and here's the thing with it, like no one could ever prove this, but you just know it if you've been in it long enough. It's true. It comes down to you and another guy, you have a small name coach, nobody really knows about,

Starting point is 00:26:57 and this person's working with, you know, droppin' big name body-bling coach, right? Yeah, Hawny Rom, right, right. So the big name, my Hawny, who's got a ton of money behind all these things, and they know that he's their, his guy, and it comes down to the two, and you guys are close enough.

Starting point is 00:27:14 Like you're not gonna be, they're not gonna give a last place for a while. Yeah, they're not gonna give the last place, like the guy's gonna have to be like competitive, but there's been many times where you, you see the guy who has a bit. I mean, it happened in my very first show. My very first show, the crowd was like booing because I didn't even place the top five,

Starting point is 00:27:32 and it was obvious how much more shredded I was than everybody else, but I had nobody knew who I was. You're way too shredded. And I've never seen this. And it would happen to me. So I get the audience's booing when they see I'm like in six place in the morning call outs. And it caused so much ruckus. And I had a buddy who was working the back with people

Starting point is 00:27:51 so he came to me and he's like, hey, they moved you all the way up to third. And he's like, I was like, what? I'm like, from six to third, that big of a jump like that. He's like, yeah, no, like they got, because of the response from the crowd, everybody booing and making a big deal about it. Cause it was so obvious that I should place first. But they're like, oh, we they got because of the response from the crowd. Everybody booing and making a big deal about it

Starting point is 00:28:05 because it was so obvious that I should place first, but they're like, oh, we gotta put this guy, we can't give him first, but we'll put him a third and make him come back for another show. And it's just how they do, they tell they run the whole thing. It's crazy. On today's episode of Mind Pump, we're gonna talk about the conspiracies of the body,

Starting point is 00:28:18 but it's extremely political. It's extremely, it's extremely political. That's wild, man. I had no idea. But that's crazy, because you couldn't do that with a power league to come up. No, it's numbers. Who did the most weight? I can't manipulate that.

Starting point is 00:28:30 Yeah, that's why, again, I think that's why some of the best workout programming comes out of those strength sports. Yeah. You either lift more or you don't. Right. It's not subjective at all. It's objective.

Starting point is 00:28:44 And if you lift more, people are like, okay, well, he did 50 pounds more in the last time. What does his workout like? What is he doing? Especially if you don't weight classes. You know, it's like you didn't gain a lot of weight, but you got way stronger. What the heck is this guy doing? How have these powerlifting programming helped you train everyday average people? Because I'm sure you're training people and they're not like, I want a powerlif.

Starting point is 00:29:04 Right. Like, I want to get leaner. Yeah, so honestly, I love training the general population way more than I did helping strong man and powerlifting competitors. Way more. I think because of the sense of accomplishment is so much greater. I can now help the 60 year old grandma get off the toilet

Starting point is 00:29:21 without a walker versus, well, I added 10 pounds to your squat. It's so much cooler, but it definitely paid a huge advantage because I figured out early on, strength is, I believe, strength is the most important physical attribute that you can improve. We say that, exactly.

Starting point is 00:29:38 All the time. Everything improves when you can work on strength. It's not a two way road though, it's a one way road. So I was able to use a lot of those simplistic training principles of the barbell and use those with my general population clients, and they were able to make incredible progress. Regardless if you're trying to,

Starting point is 00:29:53 it changes a little bit when you want to compete, you're trying to maximize your one-wret max. That's one of the programming changes, but for just generalized force production and just generalized strength training, it's actually pretty, pretty similar. So, but for just generalized force production and just generalized strength training, it's actually pretty, pretty similar. So, but it played a huge role. Why explain how strength is the most,

Starting point is 00:30:14 important physical attribute? Yeah, so I'm gonna use the, use CrossFit, for example, here. So CrossFit teaches the 10, what do they call it? The 10 physical, it's like the 10 physical attributes, right? So if we have that list of 10, what do they call it? The 10 physical attributes, right? So if we have that list of 10, so there's like cardio respiratory fitness,

Starting point is 00:30:31 agility, mobility, power. If we take a look at strength, which the definition of strength is the ability to produce force upon an external resistance. How much, how hard can you push on something? Your ability to maximize your force production improves mobility, improves cardio respiratory fitness, and improves your, I should rather say it improves your capacity

Starting point is 00:30:51 to improve those other characteristics. So I use this example all the time. If we have two bioidentical runners and one squats, 50 pounds, any other person who squats 300 pounds, who can run harder, who can run faster? Well, other person who squats 300 pounds, who can run harder, who can run faster? Well, the person who squats 300 pounds. I would all, right? So, you can use it kind of like,

Starting point is 00:31:12 it's very simplistic logic with anything when it comes to strength training. So, that's why I believe it's the most important physical attribute because it patentiates our ability to improve any other physical attribute that we want to work on. Yeah, that's a fact. It's the only one that carries over to every other person.

Starting point is 00:31:27 Every single one. Yeah, and like I said, it's the only one. It's a one-way road. I can't go do hot yoga and expect to add 20 more pounds to my squat. Right. I can't go do a spinning class and expect to be able to lift my lawnmower into the back of my truck easier. It's a one-way road. Explain how it contributes to mobility because there's, this is still a myth that lingers in the general population,

Starting point is 00:31:54 which is that you get stronger, you build more muscle, you're going to be tighter. You're not going to be as mobile. You're not so mobile. Right, right. So explain how strength contributes to mobility. So we have to remember that a lot of people think that a lot of people think this because Who do we think of what's the person that we think of who think is like really super super strong

Starting point is 00:32:15 A 300 pound powerlifter 300 pounds strong man. Yeah, they have to like hold their breath and brace to bend over to tie their shoe That's who we think of who's really strong, but that's not Strength, okay, that's a power lifter. That's in we think of who's really strong, but that's not strength. That's a power lifter. That's a specific athlete and a specific sport. When we're talking about mobility, that's the ability to essentially control your position in an end range of motion under a load. If I'm taking your squat, for example, most people have mobility issues in the squat, if I can load that squat and progressively improve your depth through that, I've improved your mobility. So, I think that's the biggest application is through practice and application and through

Starting point is 00:32:53 programming, your mobility improves. It doesn't tighten up and lock you down. Yeah, I remember as an early trainer, just to just pick you up back office, as an early trainer, I had a client hire me, This was probably two or three years into my career who had hyper mobility, okay, it was which was diagnosed with, right? So which basically means she can like bend her elbow, you'll do it right.

Starting point is 00:33:14 Yeah, like just super loose and lax. And the reality was, and you think, and I thought as an early trainer, flexibility is what gives you mobility. Well, she was the most unstable person I'd ever trained. She could injure herself so easily because she was hyper, like flexible, but she had no strength to support it. Kind of like, in the example, I used like a baby, like you take a baby and you can fold

Starting point is 00:33:37 them all over the place, but try and stand them up or put something on them and then they end up hurting themselves. Real, world flexibility is your ability to move through a range of motion with control and strength. On each axis to that. Yes, yeah. And that's the difference too. It's passive or it's active control.

Starting point is 00:33:57 So there's a misconception between stretching and mobility and mobility really is that strength and access to those ranges of motion. Like one of the biggest things that I always get harped on is like, because we don't have a super rigorous mobility routine in our programming. We have mobility when it is needed.

Starting point is 00:34:15 We have generalized just kind of helping with blood flow and just keeping the air. I feel like just kind of generalized flexibility spending a few minutes helps with joint health. But that's, in my opinion, I think it's where it ends. And I always get harped on like, well, like I can do the full splits. Okay. And like where in real life do you find yourself having to do that? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:37 So you can do a full splits, but so what? Like I can safely pick up a log and not blow my back out. So real world application here, you know, right? Yeah, we, our minds were blown years ago when we learned mobility from a friend of ours who he would put you in positions, but the goal was to connect to new ranges of motion through tension and isometrics. And the carryover from that was like mind blowing. And that's when all of us were like, okay, this isometrics, and the carryover from that was like mind-blowing, and that's when all of us were like,

Starting point is 00:35:08 okay, this is totally different. This is not what I thought when people said mobility training, which I would think of like yoga or something like that before. It was about connecting to new ranges of motion. That's cool. Yeah, made a huge difference. What are some other things that you find yourself just shaking your head at when you hear people

Starting point is 00:35:25 in our space talking, you can go either diet or exercise-wise. Man, there's so many. I should have put together a list because there's a lot. Yeah. You got, I mean, you guys probably know about this one. You hear this one all the time about

Starting point is 00:35:43 restricting a specific macronutrient from weight loss, low carb or low fat, low protein is actually on the table right now because protein causes cancer, apparently. Yeah, M-Tor. That's what they point to. Yeah, M-Tor. Yeah, do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Starting point is 00:35:57 Yeah, we can. I've read the book, or the book that kind of popularized it. And I read through it and I saw the studies, but the thing that I learned from school was like interpreting studies and how they came to those conclusions. I was really lucky to figure that out because going through those and reading those studies,

Starting point is 00:36:13 I was like, it's not what those studies say, though. That's what you want those studies to say. Yeah, no, I mean, the way I've broken it, I've broken it down is that, first of all, anything can fuel cancer growth, cancers or cells. M-Tore is a signular of growth in the presence of cancer and torque atle, got cancer to grow. In a healthy body, M-Tore is phenomenal.

Starting point is 00:36:39 It tells your muscles to grow. It's reparative. It makes you stronger and makes you feel better. By the way, estrogen, testosterone, insulin, growth hormone, thyroid, all of these are normal hormones we have in the body, but in the presence of specific cancers, can fuel cancer growth. So what they're trying to do is trying to connect protein to cancer because protein activates mTOR, but it doesn't, that's not how it works. In a pro-cancer environment or in a cancer environment,

Starting point is 00:37:10 anything can fuel. It's an overly simplistic approach to the very complex biochemistry of the body. And that's where a lot of these diets kind of mess up on, especially the whole obesity insulin theory. It's coming back with the vengeance right now in TikTok, so the whole insulin thing makes you, insulin makes you fat. If insulin makes you fat.

Starting point is 00:37:31 Right, so that came back with the vengeance, but again, it's an oversimplification of how complex your body works. It's, you're not going to manipulate one variable and expect your entire physiology to change. Yeah. You know, the reason why I don't like that one is the same thing with the squat. When I think of really bad information that does so much more harm than good for people, I think of the young men that are told not to squat, then I think of this messaging around high-approaching being cancer, drives cancer, because in my experience, I would say north of 90%

Starting point is 00:38:08 of almost every client's normal general population, not competitors, not like any athletes, like normal people, when I assess their diet, under-consumed protein. It's probably one of the most under-consumed macronutrients, and then you have this messaging, fear-mongering people around what it potentially can do in regards to cancer. It's like it's such a terrible message because that was already a challenge for me as a coach to get my clients to eat more.

Starting point is 00:38:32 Then they hear bullshit like that, and then they're gonna run away from me even more. So it's such a dangerous message. Yeah, it's a dangerous message. There's a lot of them out there, and I actually encourage, I'm gonna sound a little dogmatic saying this, but when we have clients come on, we encourage them to what I do, put the blinders on, because you're going to hear us tell you to do something,

Starting point is 00:38:48 and you're going to go on Instagram and someone's going to say the exact opposite way to tell you to do, and that's going to freak you out. So we tell them, trust us on this, uninstall Instagram, uninstall TikTok, just for a few months, and then you can put back, even unfollow us, like unfollow us for a little bit, and just like put your head down and do the work months and then you can put back even unfollow us like unfollow us for a little bit And just like put your head down and do the work and then you can read down on it for that exact reason There's just there's so much conflicting information out there. And it's it's kind of it's disheartening and it's disappointing Yeah, so what is what is the business acumen come from? What's what's been your journey like in in entrepreneurship and I mean were you into it when you were young?

Starting point is 00:39:24 Yeah, like tell me a little about that Well, my dad knew I was gonna be into it when you were young? Tell me a little bit about that. Well my dad knew I was going to be an entrepreneur from a very young age. So it sounds like a funny story. Yeah well I wanted to make money and I was 11 years old and I was too young to get a job. So I started mowing lawns just in my neighborhood. So I printed out little things, put them on the doors in my neighborhood and got a few calls, and I started mowing lawns like 50 bucks a month

Starting point is 00:39:50 or something like that. And I was like, oh, all right, cool. So I went even further and put them on like neighboring neighborhoods. And I learned a very important thing that if you can do the more volume of little papers, I can put on doors, the more calls I'll get, the more people I'll be able to convert into lawn mowing clients. So this grew and it grew to like, I did this every single year, it grew to where I was making

Starting point is 00:40:15 like a thousand bucks a month, it was like a 12 year old, 13 year old kid. Well, it was awesome. And I was like, okay, so I never want to work for someone ever again. I want to work for myself. So that's where it all started. And from then on, it's always been like, okay, so I never want to work for someone ever again. I want to work for myself. So that's where it all started. And from then on, it's always been like, okay, how can I fix this problem and how can I make money off of it? So as, you know, conceded as I said.

Starting point is 00:40:35 So tell me what the model looks like right now for you, because you said something before we got on air that I thought was really interesting. You said you don't take clients any younger than 28? It's only a year's old. Yeah. So, explain that. Yeah, well, our coaching is expensive, You said you don't take clients any younger than 28. It's not like I was old. So, explain that. Yeah, well, our coaching is expensive because you get one-on-one direction, communication,

Starting point is 00:40:54 check-ins. We evaluate your lifts, we evaluate your form, and so you are as close to a one-on-one coach as you can possibly get. You're as close to a face-to-face coach as you can possibly get. That costs money. And so let's just face the fact, if you're under 28 years old, you're probably still trying to figure out your professional life.

Starting point is 00:41:12 Probably still don't have like a set job, but probably not gonna have a constructive conversation to talk about coaching it. But that doesn't mean that you don't have help because I pride myself on the amount of free information that I post on my Instagram, my TikTok, but most importantly my Discord We have about 2,000 members on my Discord and my free information is better than your paid trainers information So you're not lost. You're not a lost hope

Starting point is 00:41:38 Wait until you're a little bit older, but take advantage of all the free stuff that we give you can you can you can have a Successful transformation with just the free stuff that we give. You can, you can, you can have a successful transformation with just the free stuff that we have. And there's so many people who share their, they're both foreign after is on my Instagram, just for my free stuff. And I post that all the time and then I make a joke of like, my free stuff is better than your trainer stuff.

Starting point is 00:41:56 So, when did you start coaching that way? Online like that. I started like five or six years ago. We've gone full online about two and a half years ago. And you said you have coaches under you? Yes. Do you have a team? How many people?

Starting point is 00:42:14 I've got three coaches and I've got one that is currently onboarding right now. They're training up to speed. Awesome. So yeah. Yeah. And you commented earlier that you might want to train sometimes in person as just to kind of keep your finger on the pole. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:28 Talk about what it feels like to get rusty because you're not seeing people because we noticed this during the podcast. Right. We're talking on air and we're not talking with clients. And then we did a live event, which is not a profitable thing for us at all. If anything, it loses its money. Sure. But we did it. and afterwards we're so grounded

Starting point is 00:42:47 and reinvigorated. Like, okay, we gotta do those for us, more than anything. I'm so glad you said that because I'm looking to do a workshop in Idaho for that exact reason. I'm not gonna make any money off of it, but I wanna do it for me. But, sorry, you asked. Yeah, why you had mentioned you want to train some people

Starting point is 00:43:06 in the first decade to do that? Yeah, well, because I'm rusty. And as the face of the business and as the person who should be leading the industry, I hope to lead the industry, I need to be able to stay on top of my stuff. Even though I have a few clients here and there, and I have a team of coaches who are fantastic,

Starting point is 00:43:24 and all my stuff is like pre-recorded, so you can go re-watch that stuff. I still feel like I have an few clients here and there and I have a team of coaches who are fantastic and all my stuff is like pre-recorded so you can go rewatch that stuff. I still feel like I have a obligation to stay up to par on these things. So I've even considered just coaching one-on-one for free. Again, more so for me than anything. So as an entrepreneur, what's your Achilles heel? What do you suck at Time management is a big one. So that's one of the reasons why I've hired a productivity coach to help me Get that under control. I suck at time management. So I'll either Procrastinate something to the very last second and get it all done or I will end up working 12 hour days There's no balance. balance. So that's due to my own ADHD, I can't.

Starting point is 00:44:06 I feel like that's an entrepreneur trade. It's gotta be. I think it is. And it's a common thing that people who have an entrepreneurial mindset also have ADHD, so I think they go hand in hand. So yeah. What has been some of the greatest challenge

Starting point is 00:44:20 of scaling from it? Because it's one thing, and I remember in my 20s, starting to figure out, like I definitely was an entrepreneur, I was really good at making money for myself, but then I always kinda hit the ceiling and was around a certain dollar amount of scaling beyond that. It gets really difficult. Are you there, are you finding that,

Starting point is 00:44:44 like those type of challenges? Like what are some of the Like, are you finding that? Like those type of challenges? Like, what are some of the biggest challenges that you currently have right now within the business? I've broken my current system about five or six times. And every single roadblock has been the result of not having systems or not having a big enough team. So I started with one coach to help me and then we quickly maxed that out. And that's another thing too is I learned really early on I have to have

Starting point is 00:45:09 a cap on how many clients, both I and my coaches take. We can't take an indefinite number of clients because the quality of coaching will go down the higher the number goes up. Right. So if we want to scale our income, we need to have more people on hand to help more. That's been the biggest roadblock. As now, my mindset has changed from, okay, how much more things can I do to make more money? It's now, who can I hire that's better at this than me to help me with this than me trying to figure it out on my own?

Starting point is 00:45:39 What would the ultimate vision for the business for you, what would it look like for you? Would you still be coaching a lot or would you rather be like, you know, the puppet master on everything? Like, how do you see yourself? It's a good question. I thought I had an idea of what I wanted it to be and it, as it grows, it continues to change. I think what I want for it at this current point in time in 2023

Starting point is 00:46:02 is I would just like it to be, again, just leading the industry and strength training and body composition changes for the average individual and kind of just debunking the bullshit that's out there. That's where we see it now. Where I see myself in it is, again, coaching more so to stay honed in on my craft, but more so on the business side of things, helping other coaches improve so they can be the best coaches they can be. You have a favorite part and least favorite part about what you have to do to make it all go right now.

Starting point is 00:46:32 I mean, behind the content creation, all the probably the bookkeeping and stuff they have to do, managing other people. Like, what do you love and what do you not like to do out of all that? Well, all the things that I don't like to do have hired other people to do a for me now, so luckily. that. Well, all the things that I don't like to do have hired other people to do a for me now. So luckily, but yeah, bookkeeping sucked, managing messages and managing sales calls, that was kind of a burnout. What I love doing, what I really love doing is teaching. And so content creation for me is second nature. I love doing that. Yeah. Is that what drives the most leads to the business right now? Like, so take me through the process me through the process of sales calls, capturing leads, conversion, and then how does

Starting point is 00:47:10 that work? The funnel is pretty simple. I make really good content. I give a lot of really good free information. People think, wow, if this free stuff is so good, I wonder what it was coaching looks like. So, they have all the free stuff here. They inquire about coaching.

Starting point is 00:47:23 They fill out an application. They get on a sales call. And then if they qualify on the sales call, because it's, we don all the free stuff here. They inquire about coaching. They fill out an application. They get on a sales call. And then if they qualify on the sales call, because it's, we don't just take anybody. We have to make sure that we like you and we think that we can actually help you once we determine that, then you're caught. So that's a really simple model. Have you had any situations where you've turned someone down and they get pissed or like, what's that look like?

Starting point is 00:47:43 All the time. All the time. My favorite one one I screen shot of this was We ask a series of questions and there's an application They have to fill out before they can get on a call and the guy got mad and he Canceled the application. He said man. I've I've applied for jobs where I've asked them to give me money That is easier than applying for your coaching So I'm like look man It has to be fruitful for both of us.

Starting point is 00:48:05 So yeah, we do have to say no to a lot of people because it's just not going to be productive for either one of us at this time. And is the 28 thing, is that kind of like a general role? But it's like, if you had somebody who's 26, who was very successful, or is it just, you just straight up, you're not old enough, if you don't, so it's economic for sure.

Starting point is 00:48:22 It's the money's a big one. And like we just have, we've looked at the data of how many people we've had contacts with. And it's like the percentage is so slim of you being under 28 and being able to afford our coaching. But also, it's where you are in life. Like I just don't have a passion for training young 20 year olds anymore. Like I care more about the dad who's facing diabetes

Starting point is 00:48:42 and is worried about not being able to show up to his daughter's wedding. Yeah. I'm more passionate about those dudes. If you're early 20s, like again, just hop on the discord, man, like you can find all of our stuff there. I know. I find it a very interesting strategy and really smart. Something I probably wouldn't have thought about until you just mentioned it because one of the drawbacks of being popular on TikTok or Instagram is the amount of young people that you get that are just looking for free stuff that can't afford any of your potential products that you have. And I would imagine that if you opened it up for everyone, you'd probably be bombarded on sales calls that led to nothing. So by making that cut off, probably increases the conversion rate significantly

Starting point is 00:49:27 and doesn't waste your time or your coaches. And so very interesting strategy. Is that how that came to be? Is that you started going like, do we're wasting our time with this kid? Well, it was. Yeah. So TikTok is the worst thing never happened to me

Starting point is 00:49:39 because we all of a sudden got an infinite number of leads. And I learned really early on, we have to put these major disqualifiers on. Otherwise, my sales guy's gonna be pissed because he's not making sales. And my coach is gonna be pissed because they're not working with people that they can help. So, you know what this reminds me of, Justin,

Starting point is 00:49:58 you remember, you might be too young for this. If you don't know if you're, do you remember when, when Groupon hit? Oh my god. At the weight, so Groupon hit and became, did you offer your personal training sessions? I know, hell no remember when, when Groupon hit. Oh my God. Oh my God. So Groupon hit and became, did you offer your personal training sessions? I know, hell no. I was hard up to see that.

Starting point is 00:50:10 So I was one of the few. I did a little bootcamp with you. Yeah, a lot of, I destroyed it. Yeah, I analyzed it. I saw a lot of coaches and trainers doing that. And to me, I saw the riding, I didn't want to devalue my coaching and training. And I was like, you know, even if it gets me a thousand leads and I get 10 new clients from it, I now have offered up a service that I believe it's far more valuable than that. So I kind of saw the riding on the wall. But that's

Starting point is 00:50:33 what it kind of reminds me of. Like you get just, yeah, you get a ton of leads, but now you get all of these people that are, you know, want stuff for free or aren't willing to pay. And it's like, you know, that would have had a totally interesting parallel. I wanted to go even further in TikTok specifically, and without saying like a complete dinosaur. But I mean, we started out like, primarily in Instagram. Of course, TikTok, I'm a dinosaur.

Starting point is 00:50:54 Really? I'm old for TikTok, yeah. I'm a boomer on TikTok. Yeah, we were all boomers at this point, but in their eyes. But yeah, like, because one of the biggest things that we found with But yeah, like, because one of the biggest things that we found with Instagram was just like,

Starting point is 00:51:08 companies like Shreds had found all these athletes and they were kind of pushing and peddling supplements and they were doctoring photos. And you know, putting out just this crazy, just archaic information. Right. Is that sort of a repeated model now on TikTok that hasn't been sort of addressed or what are you seeing, I guess, specifically from the influencers that are real

Starting point is 00:51:32 popular in that form? TikTok's actually kind of interesting. This is something that I haven't seen before because on Instagram, yeah, you did have companies like Shreds who they got called out for doctoring their photos, and that was actually quite a clown show. But it's interesting what I'm seeing now is you have the leaders on TikTok who their only content is two things. It's debunking other creators. It's literally they have their smug little face on the corner thing and they're like, react. It's, stupidest thing

Starting point is 00:52:05 I hate that. It's annoying. Get your face off. Just make me I love okay, so again, why are in the show? Yeah, it was like I had that same idea because that guy with his like smug comments To shout like you know his little no wrong He's a little biometric. Yeah, right and you countered him. I'm like, oh, he did it for me. Yeah, oh, okay, so that do. So this is common. He's not the only one that does this, but there are only contents, two things.

Starting point is 00:52:31 It's stitching other people and it's, it's regurgitating, terribly done studies, and then trying to build workouts and dieting tips off of those studies. That's never been done before. And I think it's because of the nature of the platform. And it's actually quite a clown show when they get caught with their pants down when they do it the wrong way. So I don't know if you guys saw this, but last year, study came out that basically said overhead tricep ex- overhead tricep exercises are

Starting point is 00:52:59 pretty much worthless for developing the triceps. Every single fitness creator who uses studies as their content started making content as, this is why I'll never do overhead exercise blah, blah, blah. And I was like, just sitting here, just patiently waiting, just waiting, and two weeks later, two weeks, I can't make this up. Another study came out, overhead triceps exercise,

Starting point is 00:53:20 are the best exercise- You're sitting in the stretch position. Yeah, and I was like- It was like- This is beautiful, and then all of a sudden, everyone just went quiet. Nobody talked about it. Yeah, and I was like, this is beautiful. And then all of a sudden, everyone just went quiet. Nobody talked about it every game, but I saw it happen and I was like, this is hilarious. So, that's funny.

Starting point is 00:53:32 I love that. That's an example of these, I mean, this is just, I don't know if it's just, it's everywhere, not just TikTok, where you know, news jacking, right? You try and hop on like a new study and stuff like that and you double down on something like that and you fuck yourself. I think it's hilarious. I think it's hilarious. What makes fitness so challenging for,

Starting point is 00:53:51 I guess, coaches and trainers with integrity is it's so easily sold visually. So look at me. I'm ripped. That's the credibility. Yeah. I look good or whatever, but it's so terribly, it's so ineffective unless it's kind of long form. Like you're a trainer, you've coached people for a long time. You're not gonna effectively coach or train someone with one TikTok clip or one caption under Instagram. When you work with people, it's like conversations over time and over time,

Starting point is 00:54:26 and over time, they start to kind of figure things out and apply things. So that's what makes it so damn tough. So the people with the most pull, this is what frustrates the hell out of us, the people who get like reach the most people are really good at the visual stuff, but their information is not just worthless, oftentimes it's detrimental. It's misleading. Yes. And it's misleading, but also it's also out of context. Because a lot of things that I've seen,

Starting point is 00:54:51 their points may be true, but it's so grossly out of context. And you know the average layman will take that information and treat it as gospel. And that's what I see is so dangerous. And that's kind of where I found myself on TikTok is kind of laying the groundwork of like, yeah, okay, sure, but what about this here?

Starting point is 00:55:10 Like this is your foundation, can we focus on this again? But unfortunately that doesn't. Yeah, like the whole morphology argument for squats. Well, everybody's hip joints look like this and therefore the, okay, like that's like, I've trained so many people. And you know how many times I've had to be like well It looks like we can't squat because you're more fallage

Starting point is 00:55:28 Never never happen to me before so you know They'll take something that's got some truth in it But then they'll communicate it in a way and then the average person will read will hear it read it and then just confuse This shit yeah people right and it's super super frustrating. This is why we chose podcasting, by the way, because it's long form. Right. You can actually get your point across. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:48 And it's a conversation, like I can talk about, because you know, at times I've talked about fat loss on the show, how many episodes are we at now? Doug, it's like, you know, thousands of times, but that's how many times you have to talk about it before it actually works. It doesn't work the way fitness is. So is that why you use Discord for for primarily is the long form your ideas

Starting point is 00:56:07 exactly it yeah, so We use TikTok is you know getting eyeballs and it's a necessary evil to get people to see me and then we use discord more so as here is the Here's the actual conversation of how to get strong, why we use these exercises, here's how the programming works, and so we're able to gravitate people over there, and they actually learn from over there. Are you doing almost a podcast format in there?

Starting point is 00:56:35 Is that what you're doing? Are you talking to the camera for a half hour, about topics? We're currently working on modules. The basics of training, the basics of training, the basics of nutrition, and then building those out so they're like five, 10 minute long video segments

Starting point is 00:56:50 with work sheets and homework items that you have to do. And then what I'll do every week is I'll do a live Q&A with my discord. And that's all free. Nice. All free. Wow, that's phenomenal. I'm telling you man, my free shit

Starting point is 00:57:02 is better than most trainers stuff. Well, I mean, you're way through your stuff. You got good stuff. Well, you're also touching on, I mean, that was the strategy that built this. Was when we first, I mean, we knew nothing about podcasting. None of us were media got, we are boomers. We didn't, none of us had Instagram, Facebook, none of that shit. But we saw the opportunity to provide more free valuable information

Starting point is 00:57:24 than what people were putting behind paid walls. You have these ebooks that were being sold, that were trash, you had just terrible information everywhere, over-priced coaching for people that didn't know what they were doing, and we're like, man, we have all this experience. Let's just give away all this information and just see if we can first build a network of people, and then we'll talk about if we have a business or not.

Starting point is 00:57:43 Did you notice though that as you did that, the more people you helped, the more money you made. Of course. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, that's exactly it. I think so many people go about it the other way. They have to create their secret little system

Starting point is 00:57:57 that they discovered, and sign up for this webinar, and I'll sell you into my $2,000 thing at the end of the webinar for my secret thing. Whereas patent did exercise. Yeah, all right. I discovered this secret system seven stage shredded system. No, dude, you didn't discover anything. Now, this story that I share about when we first started to monetize, it was after a year of doing the podcast, we'd already put out 200

Starting point is 00:58:21 something episodes and we had already, Sal had created Maps and a Ballac before we all even got something episodes and we had already Solid-created maps and a ball before we all even got together So we had a product to sell online ready to go and we didn't do it for over a year And when we finally did it was after we were getting people that were just trying to give us money He literally got to that point where we had helped so many people for free that people were like wait Can I buy something from you? Can I can I do? Like, look, and when we started to see that, okay, it's time, it's time for us to do this. And then when we launched it,

Starting point is 00:58:50 I would say 50% of the people actually bought and said, I'm not gonna use it, I don't care. Like, I'm literally doing it purely out of support because you've given me so much free content. And so I share that with other content creators that that should be your mindset. It's just like, can you first prove that you have enough free valuable content that you can grow a community of people and then you can talk about what type of business that you

Starting point is 00:59:13 want to build around that. So problem with that though, is it takes knowledge and time? Yeah. And that's what a lot of people don't have. Yeah. Well, so here's the big challenge that we see, right? And this is why we have you on the show, is that we're trying to, and I see you do the same thing, okay?

Starting point is 00:59:28 We're trying to sell the right information better than the other guy can sell the wrong information. Now that sounds, if someone hears that, they think, well, yeah, of course you could sell the right information easier. No, no, no, no, no, not fitness. No. Because that guy is telling you, you could take this pill and easier. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, which sounds like, again, take a pill. Right. And so what?

Starting point is 01:00:05 So what's your, like, what's your strategy with that? Cause that's your competing against, you're not, you're competing against people selling easy, take this supplement, do this secret thing. Look how awesome I look, look at my butt, whatever. And you're like, you know, it takes hard work. This is the right information. I think I have to give credit where credit is due and I think people are becoming wiser. No, I think people are starting to wise up that it's not a pill, it's not the TV product

Starting point is 01:00:36 that you buy and then you throw into your bed after a few months of using it. And what I do is I've kind of mixed a little bit of the strategies that people used to kind of catch the eyeballs, and then I've thrown my own twist into it of knowledge. I throw up the snapshot of me at, you know, 8% body fat to get you to look, and then we give you the information. And it's so cringy when I do it, I hate doing it because it's so annoying that I have to because that's the only way I can get you to watch. But as soon as I can get you to watch, and then I can feed you the good stuff, that's so annoying that I have to because that's the only way I can get you to watch. But as soon as I can get you to watch and then I can feed you the good stuff, that's

Starting point is 01:01:08 when I see it's actually beneficial. So, exact same model we use. That's what we do. That's what we do. So, I use my transformation in the bodybuilding. I built the first original 10,000 people paying attention to it off of my way. I looked. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:20 Knowing that I had to get your attention. And on his head. Exactly. You're exactly a rug picker. Oh my God. You know, it's There's that bear rug picker. Really good. Oh my God. Oh my God. You know, it's funny, though, that I'll never forget that journey of doing that, how frustrating

Starting point is 01:01:31 it was. It was a necessary evil, but the attention that you get for that versus like your knowledge is different, so like it was a, it was a rough road to start off. And I remember Seeing that I had 10,000 people paying attention to us and to see how little that converted into business and revenue initially Was rough, but to your point It was enough to get people to pay attention Yeah, and then if I could get a percentage of you to come over and listen to the three of us talking long form

Starting point is 01:02:02 You might go hmm. These guys know a few things about working out. Yeah, here's one thing I'll tell you that, that has worked well for us in the past, is predicting what is about to come through the space and what's about to get popular and dismantling it before it gets popular. Now, this isn't like an immediate, like we're gonna grow from it,

Starting point is 01:02:27 but when you do this enough times, it really, you end up looking like a wizard. Now the truth is we're not wizards, it's just obvious to anybody who knows. You can see how cyclical. Yeah, so like, so like. Like you're over at extension exam. Yeah, so we're like fasting, okay.

Starting point is 01:02:40 When fasting became a big thing, all of us are like, oh, just wait, the fasting supplements are gonna come with fasting. And it's gonna be the next diet, when we were trainers, it was called, you're not eating, right, now they call it something else. And so we would do episodes that say,

Starting point is 01:02:55 fasting will make you fat. Does fasting make you fat? No, but can it? Yeah, maybe through some dysfunctional relationships with food, but calling it out and saying, hey, guess what, this is what the industry's about to do with fasting. And here's why it's a terrible idea for a diet.

Starting point is 01:03:09 And here's why you shouldn't do it for weight loss. And here's why it actually existed throughout all the history. And calling it out before it happens, has been a really effective strategy for us. So just something that I think you probably do really well. Yeah, you can do it. You probably, I don't know if you know this,

Starting point is 01:03:23 because you guys are pretty young on TikTok right now, right? Yeah. You started what, like a few months ago, I mean, I mean, we, to be honest, nobody in here even knows what those are TikToks. So we put our clips on there. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 01:03:33 So you guys are, you guys are not aware of the animosity that happens to you guys on the phone. Oh, dude. Thank God. Literally, I, that's actually, I am aware enough to know that I don't go on there because of that. Well, no, no, no, no, no already been doing this for all of you. You haven't seen it, and then we thought we had proved that we're like one of the authorities in the space until we start TikTok, and I went.

Starting point is 01:03:50 Not to the 16-year-old. I fucked these guys. Really? I just, I looked at it one day, went through like how many negative shit comments we had on it, and I'm like, I can't go on this. You got to take an antidepressant after you look at this stuff. Yeah, so I mean, I can't imagine like someone in your spot

Starting point is 01:04:06 or someone who has built, it actually been in the trenches of TikTok because I don't, I mean, we used to think YouTube was terrible, right? Remember when we used to think YouTube was vicious? Yeah, yeah. YouTube was pretty vicious to us when we first started, but nothing like TikTok is.

Starting point is 01:04:20 I'm telling you, if I didn't have my stoic philosophy to help me, I pressed. I'd be jumping off a bridge right now. I'd be taking a bath with a toaster. So, yeah, so, reing your point out, like, fasting makes you fat. What TikTok creators will do is they'll stitch that. Just that. They'll stitch it, and then they'll be like,

Starting point is 01:04:38 this guy's nearly in his room. And it's like, hmm, I actually said that. Like, I actually said that, but unfortunately, because that one little segment like you supported something, it made you look like an authority. No context, no context at all. The one that you guys, they like,

Starting point is 01:04:55 I got like 20 tags on one of your TikTok stories. Like you said, you used light weights to build muscles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People blew up. Yeah, I'm like, shh, guys, come on. I specifically don't stitch things because I'm not gonna feed into this, anyway. Context completely missing.

Starting point is 01:05:13 This is like political game. Yeah. Politicians do it with each other. 100%. I mean, if you can handle the negativity, there is some tremendous value because to your point, that was one of the viral clips that was done of us on TikTok.

Starting point is 01:05:26 And it does get a lot of eyeballs. And if it gets, let's say it gets 100,000 views or what do I like that? And we have 50,000 shit butts that are making negative comments, but I get 1,000 people that now listen to show because they're curious about what we say. I mean, and if you actually listen

Starting point is 01:05:43 to that whole conversation, you hear us completely explain the entire thing and they go, oh shit, okay, that makes a lot of sense. And then if you actually go take that information and apply it to your own workout, it'll blow your fucking mind. So we know that, okay, it's a necessary evil, but the hardest part is actually dealing with the negativity.

Starting point is 01:06:00 I can't imagine being a young, and thank God, I'm in my 40s. We're secure enough for a short term. But man, that would be less about these things. the negativity. I can't imagine being a young and thank God I'm in my 40s. I'm not sure. I remember how I was in my teens and 20s. I was very insecure young. I can only imagine what the young audience has to deal with with. You have people who say, oh cyber bullying is not a real thing, dude. I've been on that side and I've seen it. And again, I'm more secure than a 16 year old, but as a formative child, and that stuff is toxic.

Starting point is 01:06:29 It is. It's okay, so you're about to be a father. Yeah, okay. Congratulations. Yeah, very, very exciting. Yeah. All of us in here are, I was the one who thought he was not going to be

Starting point is 01:06:39 for a very long time, so I'm gonna say a late father. Oh really, you too. Dude, yeah, when we weren't trying is when we had him. Oh, they're kidding. Wow. Did you not want to be a dad or were you not ready? No, no, it's not that so we we tried for like a year and nothing came of it. And so we just kind of like, yeah, whatever, whatever happens happens. We kind of gave up and like my wife stopped like she she get we she we get disappointed every time it wouldn't happen. And so she kind of just like gave up and like the minute that we stopped caring and I kind of accepted it wouldn't happen. And so she kind of just like gave up.

Starting point is 01:07:05 And like the minute that we stopped caring and I kind of accepted that I wouldn't be a dad in that while. It was when she got pregnant. So to anybody who's struggling with fertility, stop caring, you know. And that's such a good point because, especially on the the the wife side,

Starting point is 01:07:18 because if she's stressing about it like that, like I really, so we had the same story. So for a year, we were trying, we said, well, it doesn't seem like it's gonna happen. She had like this, this cis removed that we had, that she had the same story. So for a year we were trying, we said, what it doesn't seem like is gonna happen. She had like this cis removed that we had, that she had on that they didn't know that was honored for like nine years, and then like the next time.

Starting point is 01:07:32 And we had already kind of like, a little chocked it up, we're probably gonna be the couple who doesn't have kids, and we are okay with that. We enjoyed each other so much. And so then it eventually happened. But point of bringing that up, and this will definitely be on your mind 24 or seven if it's not already is

Starting point is 01:07:51 Raising this child in this time of tick-tock and social media and so what are some of the things that and are you as a father already Thinking about you know how you want to introduce this young infant into this digital world. It's interesting because you asked that question because I don't know how much we need to stay on fitness. We don't. Okay. We don't know.

Starting point is 01:08:20 So my wife and I came from a very religious families. Yes. She knew you do a video on you stepping away from that? Yes. And in the specific religion that we were in, our entire identities and our entire futures and how we're supposed to raise families was constructed around that religion. So abolishing that kind of left us with this big gaping hole of how do we raise a child? And so we've had to have a lot of conversations

Starting point is 01:08:46 and moments of meditating and studying of, how are we supposed to raise a kid with these concepts of morals without a deity or without this concept of like a god? Like how do we, how do we do that? And so it's been, it's been on my mind and I don't have an answer yet. I hope I can come.

Starting point is 01:09:03 Ooh, what a very, okay're this is a really cool topic because and we just went to a you familiar Jordan Peterson absolutely okay so we just went to one of my second father. I swear. You'll really appreciate this so this was checked us out now you only got to hear this on this this is a live thing that he did and he was asked, if you were raising a kid today, what would like an infant starting over, what would you go about and what would you do different? You want to know what he said? Take my kids to church on Sundays. But his reasoning behind that I thought was brilliant. And it actually, yeah, I've heard his reasons behind this because it hits what exactly what you're saying right now is, you know, kind of the whole, you know, throw the baby out with a bath water

Starting point is 01:09:47 type of mentality. It's just like, okay, we've agreed that we don't agree with a lot of what this religion wants us to adopt. And so we're done with it. But, man, were there some really solid things that were come from that for raising a child and a family? And when you replace them, and then what what are you gonna replace that with? And so you went on this little tangent about, you know, these parents that, you know, like, I'm not gonna like indoctrinate my child with religion every Sunday and make them do that.

Starting point is 01:10:17 And then he goes, okay, well then what are you replacing it with on Sunday morning and you know? And, you know, and, I mean, be honest about that. Like, let's be honest, if you're not doing that, are you doing something that is laying some sort of structure and moral fabric for them? Or are you just like watching Sunday morning cartoons or doing nothing at all?

Starting point is 01:10:36 And so there is some value to that structure. And so how do you potentially do that? So it's a, and I don't have an answer yet, but I can't deny that religion has served as a heuristic to create good people, just like how diets serve as the heuristic to lose weight. That's all it is, is a heuristic. They all worked on the same mechanism,

Starting point is 01:10:57 Chloric Deviceset. So I recognize that with religion, that they work to create good people. They do their best to create good people. And so, again, I don't have an answer yet. And I hope I can come up with an answer. So, what's interesting is with human behavior is if you don't lay something down for your kids,

Starting point is 01:11:16 that's then someone else will, or something else will. I agree. That's the crazy thing. You know, that's something I wish I understood. Because I have two sets of kids. I have two kids from my first marriage and then two younger ones. And I became much more spiritual or religious

Starting point is 01:11:31 with my second ones. And with my first ones, I wasn't. And what it did is it left an open door for other ideas and things to come in. And now that's something that I have to deal with and work through. So I think a lot of people are like, yeah, they'll figure it out.

Starting point is 01:11:48 And they'll see what they're like, listen, there's a lot of poisonous ideas, especially today. Yeah. The irony coming from you too, I don't know if you know this one, but he was a staunch atheist before. So you have,

Starting point is 01:12:00 we all have different backgrounds with all that too. So I grew up in a very structured and strict religious home with a lot of hypocrisy. And it was just for me, I got into my... I'm sure that's even worse too. Yeah, so then I get, so I went the opposite direction. I get into my 20s and I'm like, I want nothing to do with that. Like I started to meet people that were outside of the religion that I thought were better people.

Starting point is 01:12:20 So then why do I want to go down that same path? And so I went the opposite direction for probably a decade before I found myself coming back, but I came back in a different way. Like I don't go to church every Sunday or anything like that. But I do value some of the morals and values that come from what I learned as a child. And I have found as an adult that the years that I strayed away and was so, like, ah, fuck it, I don't want nothing to do with it, how much headache and drama and shit that I had in my life.

Starting point is 01:12:53 And the closer I actually lived my life to some of the principles that are found in there, I find that I have a much more healthier, happier, fruitful life. And so I'm in this area in my life of like, okay, how do I take a lot of that and then foster that within my child and not allow my,

Starting point is 01:13:13 because man, if I would have had my kid in the 20s, in my 20s, he would have gotten me in those areas where we were like, no, we ain't doing that. That's not the way direction we're going. And so I think that would be a mistake. And then you have Sal who, again, was, you know, atheist and then it's come around different, Justin's similar, Doug is similar to me as far as,

Starting point is 01:13:32 like, we were raised that way. But as fathers, it's really changed the way I look at it. I didn't look at it the same. When it was just me and I'm more, and like, I've already gone through all that, I've already got the information and knowledge from it. So I feel, but then when you have another human being that you're taking care of and then thinking like, hmm, I may remove

Starting point is 01:13:52 all of those things from his life. What am I going to replace it with to make sure? And then do I have the capacity and bandwidth to actually be disciplined enough to do that because as you will find out, entrepreneurship and raising a child. We mentioned time management. Yeah, and it was earlier you were going to be able to. Right, right. And of course, someone like you will rise to the occasion and figure it out, but then there's those things like that

Starting point is 01:14:21 that are important to you, but maybe on the back of your mind of, I should do that or need to do that and those tend to be like that that you know are important to you, but maybe on the back of your mind of you know Oh, I should do that I need to do that and those tend to be the things that you probably oh Just regard or I'll get around to it or whatever which I think now it would probably be a mistake going then this is speaking from my Personal journey, but I find that it's a really interesting conversation because I don't think that I have the full answer for you either But I do think it's worth pondering and really thinking about because That sounds like you are. Yeah, I'm thinking about and that's the thing is I'm not dogmatically attached to any method or any I because I I'm willing to accept I don't know

Starting point is 01:14:58 Yeah, and I'm hoping to have some kind of an answer and I'm hoping to Because I want to raise my child to be a leader among men and that's what this generation, this world needs and how do I do that without the structure that I was raised with? Because I see how terrible and toxic the structure was to me and how terrible it is to other people. So how do I do that?

Starting point is 01:15:24 And I wanna raise him with morals. I want him to also be raised with finding his own answers to questions. I don't want to give him the answers to questions. So yeah. Did you come from a big family? Big family, five kids. Oh wow. What are you? Yes, you said oldest. Oh, you're the oldest. Yeah. No, he said he was the run. The run of the litter in the farming community. In the community, yeah. Yeah. So they all, big, big bunch of big siblings or what, they don't, everybody.

Starting point is 01:15:49 Yeah, they're all growing up. I got one who, I think he's 17 years old now. So he's last one at home. So my parents will be empty nesters here pretty soon. So this is what that, so what did you do on the farm? I mean, this is like legit farm work. We, yeah, so we, it was more crop. It wasn't any kind of like the animal stuff.

Starting point is 01:16:04 So we did, hey, we did straw, potatoes, corn, watermelon, beans, green beans. I'll tell you this right now, okay, if you ever have the opportunity to have, you gotta do this right at the right time. So when the sun is barely coming over the horizon, have a green bean right off the stock. It's the sweetest, most delicious green bean

Starting point is 01:16:26 you'll have in the ice. Something about when the sun rises, the sugars extract from the stock into the green bean. Super tangent, but that just reminded me, those are the best green beans I've ever had in my life. That's great. So I imagine you got your work ethic learning that on a farm.

Starting point is 01:16:44 I'm so grateful that I was able to work on a farm because yeah, and I want, again, I'm going to have my kids work on farms because there are, again, invaluable lessons that come from learning and get dirty and get hurt and fall off the back of a truck going five miles an hour. So there's less than you can learn. Painless like one day, like if it's harvest day, whatever it is, where you start it like, was it four or five a.m. and then work all the way to.

Starting point is 01:17:08 Yeah, we had to get as much done because it's a new toss, it gets hot. So we had to get as much done before the sun was in the, like it knew in as possible. So we ended up, some days we had to get up by like three in the morning. Some of our hardest days were where we would have to gather up the, the bales of hay. And we didn't have balers that we could do it for us So we you know we had five or six kids out there grabbing them by the by the ropes throwing up on the truck bed and You know some big kids could do it like one swoop and I'm over here like So good at cleaning

Starting point is 01:17:40 Yeah, right. Yeah, so and then also dealing with hay allergies on top of that. I wasn't very friendly But that was there were were rough days, man, but I learned a lot from this, and I don't know, I wouldn't trade them for anything. What do you, how do you feel about the, what feels like, because we've talked about this on a show, it feels like all of a sudden fitness, well, nutrition, but fitness now is becoming politicized,

Starting point is 01:17:59 where nutrition, I've never seen this before. Now, I know nutrition is one of those things that you could say, what do they say? Don't talk about religion or politics. Nutrition sometimes can be like that. People can feel weird about nutrition. But I mean, it's been politicized in the sense that all of a sudden, if you eat a particular way, you're a bad person, you're killing the earth, you're whatever, or toxic, you're toxically masculine. And now I've seen it with gyms and with fitness. Yeah. It makes man toxic. You're fat. you're toxically masculine. And now I've seen it with gyms and with fitness. It makes men toxic.

Starting point is 01:18:26 You're fat, phobic if you're fit. You're fat, but how do you feel about all this? I don't really care. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's a great attitude. I'm sorry. I've got other things to worry about.

Starting point is 01:18:36 I'm too busy helping people and making money. I don't have time to worry about this other stuff. Okay. Well, that's a smart way to approach it. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sorry. It wasn't made for good content. Yeah. No, it's a smart way to approach it. Yeah, I'm sure. Sorry, it wasn't made for good content. Yeah. No, it is a great attitude around it.

Starting point is 01:18:48 And honestly, it's such bullshit that it doesn't even probably warrant your attention. I mean, I think that's a really good attitude about it. And instead of getting all scared that it's going to be. Yeah, shift, it's just like, ah, it's clickbait bullshit. Yeah, I just don't don't know, I've seen this happen so much for like the last 10 years of like, you know, vegan, you have, if you're vegan, then you're doing it because you don't want animals to die.

Starting point is 01:19:15 And like, but then like if you're carnivore, you're actually helping the planet like eating more animals, it's like, I don't, I don't really care. I'll just, I'll focus on something else for now. Things that actually matter, I don't know. Do you take your clients through different types of diets, and what does it kind of look like when you onboard somebody

Starting point is 01:19:32 nutritionally, like how does the coaching work? So again, down to the qualification process, we kind of weed out a lot of the people who wouldn't fit into the specific generalized mold that we have for our coaching. So I don't work with people who are vegan. I don't know how to help you. I don't work with people who can't eat red meat. Again, I don't know how to help you.

Starting point is 01:19:51 So a lot of the dieting principles that we use actually stem from the vertical diet. I worked with Stan for a long time. And- What I don't know your work with now? Yeah. I mean Stan, yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah, he's on a couple of my podcasts

Starting point is 01:20:03 and met him a few times and he's awesome dude. Yeah, super cool. Yeah, very nice, huh? Anyway, so if we want to talk about religious dogmatism and diets, I think the vertical diet is the only real diet out there that serves my purpose in what we're trying to do with our clients. So we follow that general framework while still allowing for,

Starting point is 01:20:20 it's more not completely attached to the vertical diet. As you know, it's rather strict on what you can you can't eat we follow a more like 80 20 approach but depending on how literate the person is when it comes to nutrition tracking calories those kind of things it will it'll be on a sliding scale of how either dialed in and strict or how flexible they will be so So, does that answer your question? Yeah, so when you, so like, take me through, I'm a client, I fill out the onboarding thing, I'm not a vegan, I'm open to like,

Starting point is 01:20:50 you're coaching and training. How does, okay, how do you land on, this is what you're going to eat, this is the calories, is there a process that you go through, do you write out, does every coach write out, a custom diet for that person, or is there some sort of,

Starting point is 01:21:04 let me see what you do first, like what is the process look like? Yeah, so when most people come into my program, they've already applied the dieting principles I want them to apply for my free stuff. Yeah, so again, it kind of sets us up for success so that we can just hit the ground run and we can get to work. So what we do is we first, that we use a calorie calculator one time for the entire lifetime of that client to figure out their maintenance. That's it. And we have them eat at maintenance. And we call this the prime phase because what I'm looking to do is prime you for a successful fat loss transformation. You have to prove to me that you can handle a caloric deficit before we actually get you into a caloric deficit.

Starting point is 01:21:45 So, you need to prove to me that you can stick to your meal plan. You can eat the foods that I want you to eat. You can stay consistent as many days out that we could possibly can before we can pull the food down. Because if you can't stick to it when the food is high, you're not going to stick to it when the food is low. So we start there and then once they've actually proven to us, they can handle this. A lot of them actually end up losing weight when they do that for some reason, which is

Starting point is 01:22:06 cool. If you can get them to eat more calories and they lose weight, you look like a wizard. Yeah. Doesn't mean you always have them, but it's really cool when it does. So we have them in the maintenance. They don't really lose weight. They maintain it as expected. And then we drop them into kind of a calorie deficit.

Starting point is 01:22:19 So we pull calories from primarily fats and carbohydrates. We keep protein kind of at the same number throughout the entire diet. And then what we do is kind of an undulating model of dieting. So we only get them to lose about 10% of body weight at a time. So because from what I've seen both anecdotally and empirically past 10%, we start to see some negative things happen, both physiologically and mentally. So we lose 10%, we go into a little bit of a diet break

Starting point is 01:22:50 depending on how long the dieting phase was, will determine how long the break is, we'll bring college back to maintenance, lose another 10%. And so that's that kind of undulating model of maintenance, 10%, maintenance, 10%. And then once the job is done, we've only done half the job, of maintenance, 10%, maintenance, 10%. And then once the job is done, we've only done half the job.

Starting point is 01:23:08 Losing the weights only half the job. The next thing that we do is kind of a reverse diet approach. I don't really call it a reverse diet because it's not that progressive model of like slowly adding back calories. I just want to get back to maintenance quickly as I can. And then from there, we teach you how to take what you've learned and apply it to real life without having to stick to a meal plan for the rest of your life so that we have two

Starting point is 01:23:29 to eating time to do. Yeah, so we've dyed you down and we've dyed you out and I never want to see you ever again. So that's a great approach. Yeah, yeah. How's the success rate with that? It's pretty good if you follow it. If you follow it, that's the problem.

Starting point is 01:23:43 There's a lot of people who don't have patients. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the problem. A lot of people don't have patients. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, so we have a lot of people who don't have the patients to finish the job, but then we also don't have people of patients that like they lose the weight, then they think they're done. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:54 But it's like, hang on, man, I know you're excited and you're like ready to go, but we're not done yet. We still need to like get you back up to maintenance and show you how to like maintain this and most importantly, get you off the meal plan. Cause I don't want you on the meal plan for the rest of your life. So, nobody's gonna be on a meal plan

Starting point is 01:24:09 unless you're with the rexick. Well, unless you're like us. Yeah, my fitness pals are best friend, right? So, I don't want you to have to do that. So, you had mentioned, like, yeah, I won't work with a vegan or someone who can't eat red meat. What are some other like easy to squalifiers when people go through?

Starting point is 01:24:24 If your gym is purple. Oh, that's the worst it doesn't have it. It's a barbell. Yeah, that's in the marketing. If you're Jim is purple, please don't apply. You don't really say that? It says that, yeah. No, it does it.

Starting point is 01:24:35 Pull up my application right now. It says, do you have access to a barbell? Hint, if you're Jim is purple, please log out. Like it's, oh my god, that's the smell machines at this quality. That's it's a qualifier man You have to have access to a barbell a rack and a bench. Oh, yeah I love that. Well good deal man. This has been a lot of fun brother. Yeah Yeah, I'm glad we had you on the show good luck with everything you're doing We hope this episode brings you a lot more people. Yeah, we'll continue

Starting point is 01:25:01 Yeah, we'll stay in contact because I think you know, our goal is to work with a lot of good people and hopefully we can drown out all the shitty stuff that's out there. And for the audience, I think that right after this, I believe that you're shooting with our guy to do a bunch of clips. So guys will be on Mind Pump TV. So you get a chance to see some of some fitness stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be cool. Yeah. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer, but at a fraction of the price.

Starting point is 01:26:05 The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump!

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2030: Mind Pump Trainer Highlight- Braydon Barrett

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