Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2049: The Safest Way to Hit Squat, Bench & Deadlift PR’s, What Feeling Exhausted After a Workout Really Means, the Benefits of Splitting Up Your Workout Throughout the Day & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pup, right? In today's episode, we answered live caller's questions, but this was after a 60 minute introductory conversation where we talked about current events, fitness, scientific studies, our lives, how awesome it is to be dads and much more. By the way, you could check the show notes for time stamps if you just

Starting point is 00:00:35 want to fast forward your favorite part. Also, you want to be on an episode like this one. Email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Butcherbox. They bring grass-fed meats and wild-cot fish to your door at incredible prices. And also, right now, if you go through our link, which I'm gonna give you here in just a second, you'll get free, gluten-free chicken nuggets for a year,

Starting point is 00:00:59 which is pretty awesome. And at discount off your first box, go check it out, go to Butcherbox.com forward slash mine pump. The set of set is also brought to you by Juve. This is the world's best available red light therapy company. So if you've ever read the studies on red light therapy and how it can rejuvenate your skin, accelerate recovery, help regrow hair, and more, it's pretty amazing.

Starting point is 00:01:21 Juve is the only company we trust. There's a lot of crap out there. They use the legit real deal stuff. Go check them out. Go to juv.com. That's j-o-o-vv.com forward slash mine pump. Then use the code mine pump and get $50 off your first purchase. We're also running a pretty large workout program sale right now.

Starting point is 00:01:39 Maps and a ball, it gets 50% off. And Maps split is 50% off. If you're interested, just go to mapsfitinusproducts.com and then use the code April 50 for the 50% off discount. All right, here comes a show. All right, everybody, it turns out we were right again. A high protein diet is superior to a simple calorie restricted diet. New study shows high protein diet kicks its ass. Is this really a new study? Yeah, I mean, we did some of the stuff

Starting point is 00:02:11 that came out of this. So they compared a high protein diet to a diet that was just calorie restricted. Okay. After a 60 day intervention with 135 obese people, so it took 135 people overweight to the point of being obese, the high protein diet improved weight, lipids, and blood glucose more than intermittent fasting or calorie restriction. So it actually was better than all those things. Isn't that weird? Yeah. I can see that from blood glucose,

Starting point is 00:02:44 for sure. Yeah. Well, no, I mean, I can see that from blood glucose for sure. Yeah, well, no, I mean, look, the debate has always been, or has been for a long time. Hey, it's, you know, as long as the calories are restricted or low, and they're getting adequate protein, doesn't make a big difference. Of course, those of us in the fitness space are saying, no, high protein makes a difference.

Starting point is 00:03:01 It probably burns more body fat. It definitely builds more muscle. We know that. But now they're showing this in a, you know, now a peer reviewed study. It's also better for blood lipids. Well, this also proves our hypothesis that we came to years ago with coaching clients, which was the idea that, okay, I have a weight loss client, obese client, instead of putting them on a calorie strict diet or say, follow this plan, I'm actually gonna focus on them going and getting more protein.

Starting point is 00:03:32 Not gonna tell them, can't have this, can't do that. All I'm gonna say is, hey, notice that you eat about 80 to 90 grams of protein every day. I want you to target 150 to 170. That's our goal. Don't worry about anything else, Just focus on that, track that. And inevitably, what ended up happening, the client ended up losing weight

Starting point is 00:03:50 because what we knew happened, or what happened is they would replace the other bad choices with a more calorie dense food that's more satiating. In addition to that, it also promotes recovery for building muscle. And then they're like, we burns body fat.

Starting point is 00:04:06 Right. So had this compounding effect and it was tremendously successful. Now this, I didn't have any studies to prove my theory right. It was just through trial and error of constantly giving people diets to follow and seeing them, you know, inevitably fail at like a 90% rate over, you know, if it was over a year or whatever. And this is what I found worked so much better. The two main factors here, okay, that the data is showing, which we've also observed, which is what you're saying. The two main factors here, so why high protein diet is more effective than just looking at your,

Starting point is 00:04:38 in cutting calories or just restricting your time, the time that you can eat, which would be fasting. The two main factors are one, protein produces satiety. If you were to consider all the things that make it hard for somebody to eat a diet or eat in a way that causes them to lose weight, at the top or near the top, I would say, is their appetite and cravings and hunger? Like, is it hard to eat fewer calories when you're not hungry?

Starting point is 00:05:06 No, it's easy. Protein does that. High protein definitely does that. The biggest challenge. Yes. I've noticed from any of my clients, it's really just like the cravings, the constant feeling of like having this raging appetite,

Starting point is 00:05:20 if they're deprived from it, to be able to solve that in a simple way with protein is a perfect solution. Right. So to give an example, just to really nail this home, a lower calorie higher protein diet will probably produce more satiety or reduce your appetite more than a higher calorie, lower protein diet.

Starting point is 00:05:40 So you could eat, and I'm going to just make up numbers here, you could have someone eating 2500 calories a day, but the protein isn't very high, or somebody eating 2000 calories a day, but the protein is high. And the 2000 calorie person will feel more satiated. Feel more full. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:54 Feel more full. And that is massive. So that's number one. And then number two, here's the thing you talked about, which is high protein, this is undisputable. This is like proven and studied, after study, after study. That high protein diet contributes to muscle building.

Starting point is 00:06:09 And if you're doing strength training and you're building muscle, you are increasing the amount of calorie burning machinery on your body. So you just give yourself a fast metabolism, which we've talked about many, many times on the show, is a better, more sustainable approach to fat loss. You want to be able to eat more and lose more body fat, right? So high protein wins, and this is another study

Starting point is 00:06:30 that kind of proves that. I can't tell you how many times that I had a client that I put on a high protein diet after I assessed their eating habits, and they came back. And these are all weight loss clients, fat loss clients, right? Clients that wanted to lose 20, 30, 40, 50 plus pounds. I can't tell you how many of them that after I put out a plan

Starting point is 00:06:52 with a higher protein strategy for them that they would report back, I can't eat this much. I know. This is too much. Ironically, the person who obviously was overeating calories for an extended period of time to have put on that much weight, they would report back, this is too much food, I can't eat all this food.

Starting point is 00:07:11 And so that would be part of the strategy. And I'd have to communicate to them, this has been for the coaches that are out there. You know what happens with this client is they struggle with that. And so they misprotein targets, they mis miss calories for a couple of days in a row. And then all of a sudden they're really hungry and they go make a bad choice. So when you're dealing with a client like this is being able to communicate that, like, that's okay. We'll work up to it. We'll work up to getting that much protein and so that. But just be careful because if you continue to miss your protein targets and we continue to do under eat calories two or three days are going to go by and then also you're going to

Starting point is 00:07:47 feel so hungry and then you're going to be tempted to go do you know the the behaviors or bad habits that you've done in the past of overconsuming something that your body doesn't need. You need to know that when that hits and that feeling comes on to go and eat one of those meals that I've taught you to go eat and then you'll feel fine. Yeah, and you know just to give examples, like if I got a client that was trying to lose 50 pounds and they're like, yeah, it's tough for me to go on a diet because then I get hungry

Starting point is 00:08:12 and I have a tough time dealing with that. And I look at their, what their typical diet looks like and they're eating like 60 grams of protein a day. I'm like, oh, you just wait. I'm gonna have you eat 120 grams of protein a day and you're gonna come back to me literally not exaggerating 80% of time, 80% of time, if I had somebody that would be eating that low protein and I had them bump it up to where I would consider

Starting point is 00:08:35 high protein, at least 80% of time the person will come back to me and say exactly what you said. I can't eat this much. You know what a wonderful thing, imagine, like imagine being that person, trying to lose weight and you do this, what we're saying, and they're like, I can't eat this much. Like, is it easier now or harder now for you to lose weight? Right, it's a lot easier. So it's a very successful strategy.

Starting point is 00:08:55 Now, along those lines, it's just a segue off that. The best sources of protein from a protein density standpoint, protein availability standpoint, protein availability standpoint. What I mean by protein density is that you're going to eat something to high protein that doesn't also come along with a lot of other stuff along with it, okay? That's also for most people easily digestible and also nutrient dense is meat. Meat is at the top of the list. If you are going to go with a high protein diet to try to lose weight, you can definitely do this

Starting point is 00:09:32 with non-meat sources. It's gonna be exponentially more challenging. It's just much, much harder to do so. That's just the truth. So unless you're like a hardcore vegan for your own moral reasons, if you're flexible with this, and you're like a hardcore vegan for your own moral reasons, if you're flexible with this and you're like, I want to try this and I'm not vegan because I,

Starting point is 00:09:50 you know, I, it's not moral reasons. I just thought it was healthy or whatever. Go with meat, you'll find much more success because working with clients who were vegan, who also tried to go high protein, it was a struggle. And we would only, often only hit the high protein targets with protein supplements, which do provide some satiety, but a protein shake, it doesn't produce the same satiety as like a piece of chicken,

Starting point is 00:10:15 a piece of meat, you know, piece of steak, or something like that. I think the hardest part about that is the being prepared, right? Like so, steak and chicken and fish and like these great sources of protein is having it available, so you make that good choice. This is where I like, I'm a big advocate for like meal prepping and getting it like I love it.

Starting point is 00:10:37 I haven't ready. Yeah, like we just got our butcher box came in yesterday and you know, that's normally leads to this coming weekend, you know, because we just got this shipment and all this meat is we will prep all of that. And now all three weeks. Do you do the whole week? Really all one day, yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:50 Do you do the whole week over the weekend? Yeah, mostly. So I do the whole week, but it's basically about two meals a day for me. If I have two prepped meals a day, I can have my, I can make my breakfast and I make my dinner. So that's kind of like what it looks like.

Starting point is 00:11:04 So I have two meals that I'm gonna eat at a Tupperware and then I I can make my breakfast and I make my dinner. So that's kind of like what it looks like. Oh yeah. So I have two meals that I'm going to eat at a tupperware, and then I'm going to make my breakfast and I'm bored. The two meals that are most challenging, right? Right, in the middle of the day. Yeah, in the middle of the day when I'm in a hurry, I've got something prep for that. And that doesn't mean there is an exception to the rule where sometimes I have one of those prep meals for morning

Starting point is 00:11:19 or for dinner or what other that. But for the most part, you know, I'm very consistent with having my oatmeal right now and for breakfast, the creatures of habit, and then at dinner time, Katrina always makes dinner 90% of the time. So the prep meals is really the middle of the day, and then, and let's be honest, it's noon,

Starting point is 00:11:37 I actually just had one of my prepped meals right now. If that wasn't already prepped, I'm not making that choice. I don't have the time, I don't have the time to go make the steak, go make the potato, and they're like, it's not going to do that. So I'm a big fan of buying in bulk, whether that's through Costco or a butcher box or something like that. And then preparing enough meals through the week that you have always a couple to have access to in the fridge.

Starting point is 00:12:03 Yeah, so our go to, especially when I have my older kids, because then there's, you know, there's four kids plus two adults, is the tri-tips from Butcherbox. So I'll get the tri-tips first off because they taste good. They're either easy to prepare. I literally sear them in the cast iron, put the whole thing with the, and I season them, but what, you know, I'll do rosemary, salt, garlic, olive oil, and then, you know, after I I see them, I put them in the oven. And we'll do like three or four of these

Starting point is 00:12:31 tri-tips. And I'll cook them in the oven, take them out, we'll eat dinner, and then I have like three days worth of tri-tip meat that I can eat four like two meals that I'll have during the day. But they have lots of choices. But I agree with you. I think that's the hardest part because process meat isn't really an option, I guess. Well, I'm going to say something that's somewhat controversial because obviously we work with companies that supply protein powders, but I would say of the protein sources that's one of the least favorable options for you. And this is always a talking point for me when I'm coaching a client

Starting point is 00:13:15 because protein shakes and bars are marketed so heavily. They're marketed as health foods and it's easy to get 20 or 40 grams that way. And so people tend to lean on that. I tend to coach that is an emergency use only. I do. I like what you say where you tell people to, at the end of the day, I miss my protein targets.

Starting point is 00:13:38 Let me throw a shake in there to hit my target. Yes. And I find that I've had way more success with clients that are that they're going after their protein targets through whole foods through trying through Through meats primarily to hit their protein intake and then only if you know, they're you know way under at the end of the day They utilize something like that that to make sure they still hit their intake and or something like that to make sure they still hit their intake and or like a weird situation. Your flaw, I was just flying to Austin, Texas, which should between airport time and flight. You're talking about like six hours of, you know, driving flying stuff, like, and I'm in a pinch, where I'm not, you know, I have a microwave around me and I'm just like that. So it makes sense.

Starting point is 00:14:22 Now many times I'll choose to fast, but if I'm like, I gotta eat something, like that's a place where. You're not gonna have a piece of steak in your luggage. Right, right. So it makes sense to me to have those type of choices, but when I evaluate or judge my own diet, I don't consider a protein shake or bar day, what I would call a perfect day of eating.

Starting point is 00:14:44 A perfect day of eating for me is hitting macro targets through 100% Whole Foods that I made. Totally. 100%. Speaking of meat, did you guys know that Italy, I think is the first country to ban lab grown meat? Oh, they banned it. They also did a couple other things.

Starting point is 00:15:00 Good for that. They also put up some laws for GMOs, I think, and stuff like that. But they banned, they passed the law. Maybe Doug couldn't look this up. Well, aren't they the one place where a lot of people who have a gluten intolerance here in the States, then they'll go over to Italy for that. And then they can have pasta or they can have bread, they have something that's not wise on.

Starting point is 00:15:22 That's different regulations on what? The speculation is that the wheat there is not desiccated with... Desiccated again. With glyphosate. Yeah, because glyphosates are spread on wheat to dry them out. What was called desiccation.

Starting point is 00:15:39 And Italy, so here's a deal, okay. Italy, in my family's from there, so So I can say this they are food snobs hardcore Like they have a culture around food They have cultures around certain things Well, that's what this that article even says right there dope club an article And it's like it moves the band lab room to protect the food heritage heritage, right? So they're like this with cars fashion And food and you can throw a wine in there. They're very, very like, this is our culture.

Starting point is 00:16:07 So this wasn't passed for like moral reasons. It was more like disgusting. We will not eat that food. We're passing a law. We're not. We're not real. I don't think this was passed yet. Okay.

Starting point is 00:16:19 It's been proposed. Yes. Okay, so, but you know what's interesting about this laboratory me? Have you guys looked at how they make this? I mean I've briefly seen a video and it did not look advertising. They take the cells so the real needs like cells that they'll grow and then they'll 3d print a stake and then they 3d print the marbling and stuff in it. So like if you. So, like if you bought like 10 steaks

Starting point is 00:16:45 that were lab-grown, they would all look identical. You know what I mean? With the same like, like, same fat patterns, every identical. So, I guess my thing is, like you said, it was like molecule, it was already cells from a steak, right? I mean, I think they're stem cells of different. The next is, yeah, it's stem cells,

Starting point is 00:17:04 something from an actual animal. Yeah. That then they reproduce and they just 3D print and smash together and like, how is that technically? Not me. Yeah, not me. I mean, it is me. It's just lab-grown.

Starting point is 00:17:18 It's cheating me. Well, yeah, but it really addresses, because I mean, the vegans are going to get on board. Well, there's different types the vegans are going to get on board. Well, there's different types of vegans, right? So if you're the vegan that's all about protecting animals, but you would eat me if it wasn't killing an animal. You would eat the food.

Starting point is 00:17:34 All right, so basically you could like graft off like a part of an animal that's alive. And now replicate the stuff. Well, I don't think it's like that. I think it's even more like, they literally take stem cells and they clone them in the meat. And they clone it. That's it. Like nothing died. So, so yeah, so you're not going to have to kill animals to keep doing this. So then somebody who is a vegan by that choice, not because they hate meat or they don't want to eat. So you could literally 3D print

Starting point is 00:17:58 meat to look like whatever you want. Like think about this. They could make like a meat like a twiggy meat. Yeah. you can make like different shapes and shapes. So here's how it works. Scientists can harvest a small sample of cells from a living animal and cultivate the sample to grow outside the animal's body. They then shape the fully formed sample into cuts of meat, fish, filets, burgers,

Starting point is 00:18:20 and bacon produced in this way. Tastes just as consumers would expect them to, but millions of animals don't need to be bred, confined or slaughtered to create these real unique. You know what I think we should do? I think we should do this. I'm pro this. And it should get shipped to everybody who's starving.

Starting point is 00:18:37 Like that is, to me, like that's better than that. Only if it's cheaper, I don't know, maybe it might not be cheaper. Well, I think that's a problem. Well, it's not cheaper. It's not right now. It's more expensive. It's not right now. It's not no. I Couldn't be because it was a

Starting point is 00:18:49 Raniering that's got to be where right because we're we've got a very Inception. Yeah, it's like you know early days of a computer in a cell phone give it take give it 10 years And then it will be refluxable and then and then and then I'm pro that like if it comes to yeah Somebody who cannot get any food or and or like what those places on the earth like that. So it says cost for sale cultured meat need to come down quickly because most of us have limited appetite for $50 lab-growing chicken nuggets. So okay so it will though. This is a good this is a good discussion because something inside of me and I can't point to it. Something inside of me is like this is wrong. Yeah, but but the logical side of me is like we're not killing animals. Yeah, it's still meat, right? It's the same. I don't I don't think it's wrong. I think I think it's amazing. You don't feel something inside.

Starting point is 00:19:38 I was like, here you've been the right. I'm here. I won't fucking touch it. You hear me out here. I won't fucking touch it. Okay. Yeah, that's where I'm at though. Okay, I wanna touch it. Okay, well listen though, but listen, what percentage are still starving? I mean, we have a massive amount of people.

Starting point is 00:19:52 Yeah, but it's not because we don't have enough of you. I know, because we can't, I know because it's shipping. It's shipping. Yeah, but you're gonna be able to distribute this fake ass meat. I'm sure you're gonna be able to store it. And we can't now, we will in the next decade. Can we agree on that? Can we agree that?

Starting point is 00:20:03 Yeah, but I don't know if it's the lab-grown meat that'll solve it. I mean, we have people that, we have bums with cell phones now, we will in the next decade. Can we agree on that? Can we agree that? Yeah, but I don't know if it's the lab grown meat that'll solve that. We have, we have people that, we have bumps with cell phones now, bro. We do. So, it's amazing that politically-printed. So, it's only a matter of time. There's only a matter of time before we can ship this fake ass meat to people that need food.

Starting point is 00:20:19 And that, to me, I'm pro that. Yeah. So, I'm for that. Now, you won't ever catch it in my house. 100% you won't catch it in my house. So here's, you guys ready for this? I'm gonna blow your minds right now with the unintended consequences of this technology.

Starting point is 00:20:34 Let's just imagine a future where lab-grown meat is way cheaper, way more accessible. It's, obviously, it tastes just like me, because it is me. How many cows do you think would survive and exist on earth when we no longer need cows? Still a lot. Here's why, because there'll be people like us.

Starting point is 00:20:58 They're here, cutting suits. Here's a deal. Not a lot, not enough. Like, okay, let me put this way. There's a reason why cows, pigs, chickens are so plentiful. Hey, maybe just the right amount. Maybe they're gonna be all in these free range type of grass fed, type of farms instead of the way we do it commercially right now.

Starting point is 00:21:15 Isn't it weird though? Like something like that. Let's be honest, maybe it goes to where like a much healthier way for it to be, where a more sustainable place. Versus these massive commercial farms where we should be. Well, that's always been the problem is just the pure volume of people that need to consume meat.

Starting point is 00:21:32 Like, it's insane. So if you could kind of solve the majority, you know, the big problem with that, but then also have like the specialization part of it, which you're saying with like farms and like ethically, how great would it be if farmer saying with like, farms that are like ethically. But there's more. How great would it be if farmer markets become like the high-end like connoisseur high priced, like eating because people that cost walks for us. We, we, we, I know, it does stuff for us in a sense, right?

Starting point is 00:21:59 But I mean, it's all relative, right? It'll probably, it'll be expensive compared to what you're saying because it'll get, so it will drive the cost down because we'll have AI creating the meat, we'll have robots that are shipping in, doing it. So the cost will be so little. So then if you really want to take the risk of eating this fake ass meat, then you can and you can do it reasonably priced and we'll save a lot more lives. This meat's expensive because we killed it.

Starting point is 00:22:23 It was actually a lot. You know what though? This is true. Not. It was actually a lot. You know what those? This is true. Not listen. There's a lot of myths around this though because ruminating animals like cows, if you let them be grass fed like, okay, so butcher box, grass fed meat. When cows go and eat the grass, it's a, this is actually, it's also important for the environment. It's important for carbon dioxide, capsules, oxygen production. It's important for the land. So we would actually solve maybe one problem when we create three other problems that people

Starting point is 00:22:54 don't realize. Why would we create? Wait, wait, because you need ruminating animals. You need them for the environment. That's why I think, yeah. So we'll just have them out there roaming, I guess. Yeah, why would you have them? Who's going to take care of them when there's no market for them?

Starting point is 00:23:06 There won't be a market. You still don't think people like us would go pay a premium price for, yes you would. We do right now, that butcher box is more expensive than if you were, I mean, it's relatively, it's not much more than God, but I think that's how it'll be. It will drive the other stuff really down because robots and AI and all that shit

Starting point is 00:23:26 can take care of all of it. And then you'll have real farmers that are raising real cattle and having to slaughter them. And then it'll be a higher price. They're like Rolex farmers. Yeah, it's real. They'll be like, Bal and E.

Starting point is 00:23:40 Yeah. Yeah. That's the new way to like, it's a good, right? We've got the haze to it. We've got the new way to like Farmers are all ballinetic control for our entire Their big ass do you want me? I don't know man, like I said it'll it'll it'll solve some problems create But now here's another question what other exotic meats that really aren't commercially available

Starting point is 00:24:04 Because it's just not but I wonder what exotic meats they'll be't commercially available because it's just not, but I wonder what exotic meats they'll be able to create because they can grow it in a lab. You know what I'm saying? Like rare delicacies. Like we've created the most tasteful meat with combined alligator steak and chicken. Oh, Streets.

Starting point is 00:24:16 In this, yeah. Like do you think you create some weird shit? Did you guys watch, did any of you guys watch that movie, The Menu? I did. I did. I loved it. I was gonna watch that. I loved it. did watch it. I was gonna watch it.

Starting point is 00:24:25 That was different, huh? I loved it. Yeah, I liked it too. I thought it was really good. It turned out it wasn't a big fan of it, but I like it. Yeah, because she doesn't like, like she likes all happy endings and all like that.

Starting point is 00:24:32 I like weird. I like weird shit like that. That twisted endings. Oh, dude, speaking of murder in this reminder, okay. Speak of the magic. Executions. Okay, yeah, because I're talking about, you know, kill a slaughter gal.

Starting point is 00:24:47 Okay, I got it. So I murdered my meat. Yeah, I just murdered it outside. So you know, like the method that in France for execution, like you know where the guillotine came from, right? Well, I don't know where it came from, but I know I used it.

Starting point is 00:25:02 Okay, French Revolution, right? Yeah, I was like, like they did it specifically to kings that did something like that. Well, so don't know where it came from. I know I used it. Okay. A French revolution, right? Yeah. It was like, like, they did it specifically to Kings that did something like that. Well, so it was stuck to be more ethically. Oh, yes. Oh, and so like, I believe it was a surgeon that like, invented it. Yeah, because they saw hanging, right?

Starting point is 00:25:17 I think I remember this and like, this is not cool. This takes a long time. It's hard to talk. So they found a way to like more clean, separate things. That's like, that was like the more ethical way So crazy that in fact, okay, do you guys okay? What's your guess for the last time? It was used in a real execution oh

Starting point is 00:25:34 Oh France yeah 1875 I bet you it was used 40 years ago. I bet it was you know 1800s. I'm gonna guess 40 years ago. Okay 1977 whoa I bet it was used in 1700s. I'm gonna guess 40 years ago. Okay, 1977. Whoa, 1977. 1977. I'm pretty damn close. Isn't that crazy?

Starting point is 00:25:50 I say 40 years ago. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, Doug was on the money there. Yeah, right on the money. Dude. How did you, what, what made you guess? It seemed logical to me.

Starting point is 00:25:58 I mean, what can I say? Wow. Like they opt in for that, you know. Yeah, was it by choice? Like you're gonna be executed. executed because that makes kind of sense. I think if I had a choice, like, oh, I'm gonna get the gas chamber, I'm gonna get the electric chamber, I just chop my fucking head off. Yeah, some people would probably go chop my head off.

Starting point is 00:26:13 I don't even want to, you know, some people choose like a firing squad or whatever, yeah, is that how it was? Was it like a choice? I think so. Do you know that? Did you know that? Was it public too? No. Oh, I don't know. They don't do public shit. Yeah, it was. Yeah, I know. Middle East, they'll do that. So do you know that did you know that was a public to no?

Starting point is 00:26:25 I don't know they don't do public shit. Yeah, it does anymore. Yeah, I'll do that. They'll let you do probably they'll put on YouTube. But yeah, yeah, so did so did you know this? I feel you read about like people getting their heads cut off. Apparently your head gets cut off and you're alive long enough to be aware. Yeah, like your head got go. Yeah, like you can see your body never. Yeah, I've heard that until your brain starves from from lousy lack of blood and then you have logically that makes sense, but like I mean that's fuck up. You imagine like shrimp. Yeah, who confirmed that? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I still feel like we put his head back hot real quick. Oh, no, they theorize it. Of course, they can't possibly, but you know, electricutions are electricutions aren't any more freaking humane if you read about electrocution No, isn't it isn't it?

Starting point is 00:27:08 They fuck up isn't the shot is like the most like the injection yeah the injection right lethal injection I think yeah, cuz they can mess that up too Can it happen yeah, well they give you the wrong one first. Yeah, are they similar to Today the same thing for humans that they do for like animals like when you put your dog down Is it the same type of like I know they use like a couple different? I Think one puts you to sleep when you come down and one kills you when we had to put Masi down it was like three different shots. I think one puts them sleep

Starting point is 00:27:37 What what not numbs him like could relax his aesthetic so he's nerves calm down So he's not like all freaked out So the first one like totally relaxes him then one numbs him and then the last ones like the and I actually think that a lot of times And then our one slows his heart be down slowly Yeah, and a lot of times that one will make them go and then they only use the third one if they if he doesn't go Oh, yeah, I mean it's sad, but it's actually for me it was a I mean we they actually I don't know if you knew I didn't know if you guys know this or not, but they'll come to your house. Like, so we had someone which was really nice.

Starting point is 00:28:09 Yeah, we had a fire going into the house. We had like the whole night we were spending with him before I mean, it was sad. I think it back of it's very sad, but I mean, better than like, taking it with some cold hospital. Like when Bentley died, Bentley died during COVID. So we couldn't continue and I both couldn't even be there. So that was awful.

Starting point is 00:28:25 What a stupid. Yeah. So stupid. That was one of the ones that made me so angry. I was mad at all the things. That was the worst. Oh man. Yeah. So that's like so dumb, right? So like that was bro, we're gonna look back on that time. I'd be like, what the hell are we thinking? What did we did to all these people? There's still people driving around with masks on by themselves. Oh, I'm so sure if we're gonna look back for all of these. That's right. I don't know what it is right now that what I go places and I see that and I'm trying to come from a place. Especially now that the clockroom review came out.

Starting point is 00:28:56 I know, I'm trying to come from a place of compassion and love and Arthur Brooks. I try and keep in my head, like, you know, talking to me, love everybody and be compassionate compassionate. Let's just say it's hard. It is, dude. It is. You know what, I think where bothers me is when I see children around, like they're kids.

Starting point is 00:29:13 You know what I'm saying? That they're kids are wearing them still and stuff like that. And it's just like, do you not have any idea of what you're potentially, you know how much communication is nonverbal? 70%. Yeah, it's 80, I think 80% is nonverbal? 70%. Yeah, it's 80. I think 80%, 70%.

Starting point is 00:29:26 It's not is nonverbal, dude. And during a child's early years of development, like you're taking away 80% of their ability, there's a reason why you know what teachers too. By the way, I've heard this now, like, where were we at? We were at school or somewhere. And I heard multiple moms and teachers

Starting point is 00:29:46 talking about some of the kids and they refer to these kids as COVID kids. Yeah. It's become so like normal. They have these kids that are... Speech pattern problems, processing problems, can't process emotion as well. Yes.

Starting point is 00:30:00 Anxiety issues. I mean, don't get me started. No, I mean, I get fired up when I, that's why I'm saying, I really mean I still see be started. No, I mean, I get fired up when I, that's why I'm saying what I do. Make me really mad. I still see these people. Have you ever seen, have you guys ever seen, I know you're familiar because your wife was a nurse.

Starting point is 00:30:12 Have you ever seen the training that hospital experts have to, that, that, that, that health practitioners, my best friend's wife is a nurse and she told me it's like a whole, like certification. You learn how to use a mask, but otherwise it's a waste of time is what they said. Yes. And they're like, hey, you're three year old, put a mask on.

Starting point is 00:30:28 To me, that's besides a point. I mean, the real point is that like you said is that all the research has come out now to like, like it's no longer a question. That's a waste of time. It is. And it's like, why continue? And then now you have to be like,

Starting point is 00:30:41 not always, you've been proven that it's doing nothing. Now what are you doing? No, it's not doing nothing. It's causing damage. Yeah, right. You're now you're just doing damage and then I guess I just get fired up when I see kids involved because if you want to be stupid and do it yourself then whatever. I mean we have plenty of stupid people that do a lot of other stupid things. Yeah, I'm not gonna get mad about that like, but when you got like a child in the car with you or your kid has got it on still to them. I told you kids are my kids doing kids in my kids school still warm and it's it's because and you asked them

Starting point is 00:31:06 Why are you still wearing this well first off? They're self conscious anyway at that age so it's like now and they've had they were great We had yeah for two years So now you got to be the one to take it off first and then second is cuz some of the fucking some of the teachers So still warm and it's so that's you know, I don't know. It's a weird. It's a hard reversal I have a lot of empathy. Did I ever tell you guys about time? This reminded me of you know talking about kids and parents and stuff. I went to Disney World years ago and So it's good. You mean Scooterville. Yeah, so rascal. Well, no, hey, dude. Have you guys been Disney World? I've been to yeah one time but I have a mainly Disney Land just so Disneyland California Disney World Florida And so I think because Disney World attracts a lot of the South,

Starting point is 00:31:48 they have a higher obesity rate and stuff like that. And I remember when we got there, it was right around when the movie Wally came out. And I remember traffic jams in Disney World with the scooters from people who were too obese to walk. Like that's how many people were on scooters and I'll never forget you just reminded me, this woman who, I mean, it made me really sad, right?

Starting point is 00:32:11 She was probably 400, something, 500, like really, just really, really obese on a scooter. Her daughter was sitting on her lap on the scooter. Her daughter was also very obese five year old and she had what looked like a bucket of soda, and she was just drinking it, and they were driving around Disney World, and I remember like, oh, my older kids were so young,

Starting point is 00:32:34 and it broke my heart, I was like, oh my God. That was a long time ago, right? Long time ago. Yeah, I think you remember you first telling me that, and it was early on when we first had the podcast going. Yeah. And I actually took a picture, it used to be on my Instagram,

Starting point is 00:32:45 I don't think it's on Instagram anymore, a long time ago when we were at like some 7-11 and they were selling, and I remember watching the evolution, you remember, I remember 7-11 when we were kids. It went crazy for the size of the double goal. We're old enough to remember before the big goal. Like there used to just be small, medium, and large. You know how big soda's were when Doug was a kid?

Starting point is 00:33:04 Yeah. Bro, the shot glass. Yeah used to just be small, medium, and large. You know how big soda is when we're in Doug was a kid? Yeah. Bro, I scored it. I scored it. I scored it. I scored it. It was a shock. No, by 10 or 12 ounces. Yeah, there was a little bottle.

Starting point is 00:33:12 I've seen really good, you know, comparisons, right? Yeah, yeah, like the generations of like the, even like an order of a burger and fries and a drink and those things like that. But I mean, I remember, like, 7-Eleven really stands out to me because as a kid, so when I was in high school, I used to go to 7-11 and have coffee before I worked the dairy. So I have this like vivid memory.

Starting point is 00:33:31 And then when I came to San Jose, I had a 7-11 that was right by my house that I bought when I was 20-21, that was right there. So for, and I lived there for eight years and I would go there all the time and I'd pick up like energy drinks and stuff. So I watched like the evolution of the drinks change. And I remember when we started this podcast, I'd gone in one, I'd been in one all the time and they had this one gallon.

Starting point is 00:33:52 Like he was like, I don't know what they called it. Oh, what is that? It was a handle. Yeah, the original fountain drink at McDonald's was seven ounces and that was in 1955. Seven ounces. Wow. So they had the double-culp and then they had the super double-gope.

Starting point is 00:34:04 And I remember this vividly because my brother and my dad were like addicted to cherry coke and Trick the whole thing dude. I swear and I think I don't know what My rationale was but I was just wasn't in D'Asoda And I wouldn't really drink it much. I would have like occasionally. I have like a spryter like but I was drinking water Didn't go well with your cigarettes. Just cigarettes in my math was a bad combo. I can't imagine any of us smoking cigarettes. No.

Starting point is 00:34:32 Dude's look weird. I mean I was a painstaking person. I tried for a year. For a year. He smoked cigarettes for a year, dude. Yeah, yeah. I did for one year. Not like religiously though.

Starting point is 00:34:40 It was like after like after work type of deal. Yeah, I did. I went through a phase like that. Do you see that 7-11 has 128 ounce, it's called the team goal. The team goal. So, okay, what's up? That's 1379 calories.

Starting point is 00:34:54 It's a Coca-Cola, yeah. Is that a half gallon for the team of one? Boy, this thing was a gallon that I saw. That's pretty close to a gallon. Hey, you and your five friends want to share one drink introducing the team goal. Disgusting. What the hell's going on here?

Starting point is 00:35:09 Oh my God. I mean, you gotta wonder how, I mean, how many, if they, they sell it, because it makes money off it. That's what I'm saying. If they sell it and make money off it, and they wouldn't do it if it wasn't selling. So how many people? Dude, I want to go back to you talking about

Starting point is 00:35:22 the smoke and cigarettes. Why did you smoke cigarettes for a year, bro? I can't imagine. I just picture it out of here. Yeah, I tried tuned to back. I was like trying to make it happen. Oh, because I was playing baseball and like all my friends. I mean, I could make it work. I could make it work. I just picture you at your balcony after working at the gym. That's actually exactly what it looks like. So that drink is one gallon. It is what it was a gallon. So that's the one I saw, right? Oh, sheesh.

Starting point is 00:35:46 So first of all, let's unpack statistically what I was supposed to be anyways, right? I was supposed to be in prison, drug addict, criminal, all that stuff with it, right? So like, anything is a success. I said, it was only a year. Yeah, so yeah, it wasn't a year. It wasn't a year old.

Starting point is 00:36:04 It'd come down. So I pretty much tried everything at one point. You know what I'm saying? So at one point, I have tried damn near everything. And you know, I live with a good buddy of mine who I was really close like my best friend, Mark Baker, you know, and he smoked. And you know, and it just like it probably has started for many people,

Starting point is 00:36:22 it was like who I didn't ever smoke when I was younger. It was like on the, when we were out party and are doing something like that, I'll have one with you. And I got the head changed from it. I was like, oh, I kind of liked that. And then it turned into like, oh, on a stressful day of work,

Starting point is 00:36:36 I'll have one after. Yes, at the juice. But you know what's funny? You know what's funny is, even the entire time I was like embarrassed about it. I don't think I ever openly admitted or talked about it because I hated the way it made me. I would instantly after I smoked it,

Starting point is 00:36:50 go scrub my hands and I always kept alchemy and brush my teeth. Like I did not shame. Yeah, I told you, it was. It was shame, embarrassed, and I chased the head high from it. Right? I liked the head change from it and stuff like that. And so I would justify it from a long stressful day

Starting point is 00:37:09 after work and doing that. And he was having one and so, you know, that's what happened. But I mean, it lasted about a year and then I like had it come to New York. Cigarettes, the anti-cool campaign were so effectively for cigarettes because they were so cool for a long time. Oh, they're in every movie too.

Starting point is 00:37:23 Yeah, I mean, every action hero was like smoking. Or I think what I gravitated more towards was the cigars because that was like your A-Team guy. You know, there's always like some generals. Like, grrr. Yeah, I got. I so are that guy. That's my guy right there.

Starting point is 00:37:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got more into cigars. Hey, they say media shit. What do you think all your worst kids? What is everybody's worst habits that you think you that you had that whether it was a short Stant or a long stant like as far as health white anti-health. I still I still have issues with supplements We're gonna go there. Yeah, but that's not like anti-health. Do you think I've seen the mix of shit? I'll put together No, I do know I mean I would I would you don't know all of it I'll put together. No, I do know I mean I would you don't know all of it

Starting point is 00:38:09 I get weird Really exotic I tell you what a fitness saved my life. I swear to God. What was your worst out? You're like the healthiest So what's your what I remember what is your worst like? What other little heroin kick for about seven months. Wow. I'm trying to recall, I mean, I did eat too much food. I mean, that was basically the challenge I had to push. Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

Starting point is 00:38:33 I'm sorry, yeah. That's, that's, you're a place. It's a place. I wish I was more of a retrobrate. Retrobrate. Like a couple of extra hundred gallons for like a year. I think for a great. That's the case.

Starting point is 00:38:43 That's the case. That's the case. That was a good age He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid.

Starting point is 00:38:51 He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid.

Starting point is 00:38:59 He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. He's the kid. Yeah, I would say, I mean, I was a bartender, so I drank a lot. Alcohol for you. A lot. And I mean, it's still like somewhat there, but it's not like anywhere near where I used

Starting point is 00:39:13 to drink when I was in college. I went, it was after I broke up my girlfriend, it was like, you know, this justified, well, I'm going to keep going out. And I just had this like, it was probably a year of just like, I was like out every night, just destructive. Yes, just very much punishing myself with it. And between that and I guess, I mean, I was eating restaurant food all the time.

Starting point is 00:39:38 But I would still like, I never really went like to, I tried because I live with a lot of fat guys. And they tried to take me to these buffets and it's just kind of a weird thing where they want you to be a fat guy too. And they're just like doing everything they could. No, misery loves company, right? And at some point I was kind of trying and I was like, you know, it was definitely fluffy, but I just couldn't go to that level.

Starting point is 00:40:04 I was like, this is gross. Like, it just didn't resonate with me. Dude, I couldn't imagine the house you guys lived in together. Oh, it was awful. I couldn't bring anybody over, dude. Like, I just, I remember. Cause these guys were, hold on,

Starting point is 00:40:15 they're not just like fat dudes. They were giant. Giant, giant fat. They were all linemen, right? They were all linemen, like, six, five, six, seven, just giants. Yeah, people thought we were like, like, jacks seven just giants. Yeah, the people thought it just imagine like jacks the box bags all over the place. Like the boxes stacked up.

Starting point is 00:40:30 Like Justin's a big dude right he's the cakes right he's a little guy right he's like the little guy around. Yeah. You guys should have seen. Okay, so both my friends worked as Bouncer's at the Cubby Bears was this like bar that would bring in axe game to have life You know the Cubs but I could you go ahead share your other additions with no This is not making sure I went through like a little cup of air base Yeah, okay Yeah, I did stuff myself up that one one. So they basically were, they're bouncing and they would get these parties upstairs that I mean, they had leftover food all over the place

Starting point is 00:41:31 and they were just shameless about it and they would just take it home. And like, from the party? From the party. They're just, you know, and so there was, I wanna say 10 boxes of chicken wings. And I get home and I see one of my friends and on the couch literally like his pants unbutton

Starting point is 00:41:50 his like shirts off and he's eating like wings and I see stacks of bones. Like it was the most disgusting I've ever seen in my life. So I couldn't get a direction for like two months after that. I just want to take a shower immediately. So was that, I mean, that's another funny thing to think about is like your messiest like roommates where they were like the most disgusting roommates you ever had.

Starting point is 00:42:18 I threw everything away. It got to the point where I was like washing dishes and then nobody was doing it. And they were literally eating off of like Tupperware lids. Oh my god. Oh my god And like picture report just these are small. I'm just like We do that for everybody. What is happening? I'm like back you mean and like I just gave up I've be honest to you guys just gave up and I was like forget it And we got to the point where we were moving. And so we had flies this big that were just like, they would give up, they would, and flies, they gave up on life.

Starting point is 00:42:53 It's like, they smashed it. It just, it just died, just squished. Oh, bees fly. I was like, it didn't even try and get away from me. I heard of that before. And then I just took all of these dishes and I just threw it. We were three stories up and I threw it over the balcony

Starting point is 00:43:08 and then into a dumpster. And I just threw everybody shit away. Now you never went through like a roommate experience really. You never had roommates. I live in my parents' house. Oh yeah. Did you ever go through a roommate?

Starting point is 00:43:18 Yeah, I've had a few. Yeah, did you have like a crazy messy room? Oh, I did actually. So when I came back from Japan, I needed a place to live. And I knew this guy who worked for Microsoft. And so he goes, I live in this house with five other guys that worked for Microsoft. It was this massive house.

Starting point is 00:43:34 And I got in there and there was one open room. And of course all these guys were like, totally into their tech and all that type of thing. And my next door neighbor, I walked next to his room, I could actually smell the room. As I walked by it. I don't think you ever washed it. Is she, it's my-

Starting point is 00:43:51 I've heard stories that- Well, I've had all kinds of bads. Well, I've heard stories that from women when they live with all girls in sororys that they're filthy as hell too. It's not just dudes. I've heard stories of friends. It's a different kind of, well, I mean,

Starting point is 00:44:04 it's a different level, but that's great. I've lived with, well, I had female roommates, I had male roommates. I mean, I had my house by time was 21, and I always rented at least one, if not two rooms. So I've had, I've had one, two, three different girls that live with me, one, two, three, four, five, six. Which is different.

Starting point is 00:44:19 Six different, no, I mean, over a course of time. Like, I always know, I only had like one room was rented out to, I had two extra rooms and I had one rented out. You're a clean, you're really clean, yeah. You're always, so I have a higher, huh? You've always been that way? Yeah, and it was because I grew up in a messy home.

Starting point is 00:44:37 I hated that. So when I was a kid, my sister's a Cassie's that way too. If you ever go to Cassie's house, she's like super. Yeah, her house is immaculate and it's because we both had the same experience growing up in a just disheveled house. And you know, you'd be embarrassed to bring your friends over. I never know, like I bring my friends over and there'd be like laundry all over the living room floor and the dishes are all piled up in there.

Starting point is 00:45:03 And I remember just cringing, I don't know what I'm gonna walk into my own house with my friends and be embarrassed of that. And I swore that man, when I move out on my own, I'll always keep myself or all my stuff, like really nice so. But I mean, I had roommates that, I never let the house get messy

Starting point is 00:45:21 because that I controlled that, but their bedrooms, they rent them. So I'm like, I wouldn't mess with them. And it wouldn't be until like after they left. I told you guys, the whole, remember the guy that did all the Coke? I had all the razor blade. I felt like, I mean, I messed up on a hundred and a half straws

Starting point is 00:45:35 and razor blade marks in my window seal. And like, I had no idea this dude had a Coke problem. Like, you just think he was energetic? Yeah. Could figure out why he could play video games. I was like, he's a kid. He's a kid. Could figure out why he could play video games. I said, say it's for the new businesses. Could figure out like you'd play video games till four in the morning on a camping chair

Starting point is 00:45:49 and then get up and go to work with me at seven. You know, say it every day. Yeah, this thing, yeah. Energy is like, that sounds figured it out. You know, so. And then I had another guy who, you know, he was a hardcore workout buff fit dude and he would make big old meals like skill it.

Starting point is 00:46:06 And I found like pans like under his bed of like half food still. What's wrong with people? Yeah, like that's why I was like, how do you like, what? Leave a pan of half eaten food under your... Live with it.

Starting point is 00:46:19 Yeah, and then like yeah, and you slept on top and had girls over and shit like that. Like how did that work out? Like that's so weird. Like, you know? For my biggest pet, people was with, besides this disgusting mess everywhere,

Starting point is 00:46:29 it was like, I would go into the bathroom and every time they'd take a shower, they're so big, they would step out and then just drip dry. And it would, like, I was always stepping into like wet. And it was just like, you're socks, you just put your socks on. Oh, and I would yell and, you know, we'd wrestle and like, dude,

Starting point is 00:46:47 it. What? Hey, back to the scene. Zero gain is, okay? Zero percent. And how to pull a fight? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no.

Starting point is 00:47:00 No, no, no, no, no. Kimber boxers on, it was totally normal. Yeah. They were wet. He's like, the walls were just black with mold. So that was my first job was to clean that. Now you're a clean guy too, so that must be. I'm clean, I can be messy, but I'm clean. You can be disorganized.

Starting point is 00:47:20 I'm disorganized. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. So that was my first job was to clean that. Now you're a clean guy too, so that must be clean. I can be messy, but I'm clean. Yeah, you can be disorganized. I'm disorganized.

Starting point is 00:47:30 Not dirty. I'm not dirty. Yeah, there's disorganized and there's dirty. What would you categorize yourself as? Disorganized. I'm disorganized. I'm not dirty. I don't like dirty.

Starting point is 00:47:39 I hate dirt. Yeah, but I can be very disorganized, because that's like what's in my head. So it just shows up. Yes, I'm outside. Manifest, yeah. Speaking of disorganized, but me asking this Adam, she's looking juicy lately. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:47:53 Look at her. What's going on? I'm back into gyms, dude. And I have to say, you know, it's been over three years. You're gonna dust off your pro card and start doing it. You know I, I, I think you let me have my time long enough. I did. I, you know, I felt like, um, son of a bitch. Well, hey, to be honest, like, I really thought that I, I think you, I thought you guys had, uh,

Starting point is 00:48:15 influenced me so much that I had been converted. Those that have been listening to the show for a really long time could probably remember when we first would all have this kind of debate. Remember we'd have this argument. Home gym versus. Yeah, home gym versus. And I was like so staunch about working out the gym, well then COVID happened and I was forced to work out at home or here.

Starting point is 00:48:32 Then I started to tell you guys, well, you know what, I'm starting to see what you guys saw. Like I like this and it's convenient. And I love the way I'm like I'm doing these little 10 minute micro workouts. And I really liked a lot of that stuff. And it did, it did me well for COVID, right? I thought the, and when I look back now, and I came back now to the gyms,

Starting point is 00:48:49 what I like about the home is the convenience and flexibility, and I would say that having it is, kept me healthier than just having a gym membership, right? Because what I found about having the home gym was, it was easy for me to go, I can go in and just do a squat, you know. I just go do one little thing. And sometimes I would. Sometimes I would just do like three sets of squats. I would never drive to the gym and squat three times and then get out. That would never happen. If I

Starting point is 00:49:19 go to the gym, I'm committed to an hour full-time workout, which as you can probably figure out is that that's the pro and con to this is that what's nice about being back in the gym is my workouts are improving. Yeah, they're most consistent, I've seen you in a while. You can tell, dude, you've put on like eight pounds, it looks like you've put on eight, am I guessing right? Eight pounds of lean body mass since you started? You know, I haven't done a Dexascan, which I will do at the new gym that has a lot of work.

Starting point is 00:49:43 You should have done it when you first started. I know, because you've changed already since then. Yeah, I've definitely, my weight is state almost exactly the same though. Yeah, I know, but yeah, you've definitely gained some. I keep, I always keep, so when I first start, I always take a photo. So I have a log for myself so I can look back on the visual. I'm actually really not tracking, wait that much. I get on here at our scale, maybe once every couple of weeks, just to kind of see where I'm floating around.

Starting point is 00:50:06 I've been hanging right around 230. So I'm not moving much from 230, but I've completely changed my body. So it has, but talking about the gyms, this is having been in one for over three years. So some things have changed, really blown away by the amenities in this cheap fitness 19. So I got this membership at fitness,

Starting point is 00:50:28 it was kind of a cheaper, smaller club. They took over an old 24-hour fitness. But, over in Morgan Hill. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's no longer 24. Yes, that one. So, I come in and I'm just like, hey, I'll give you a membership

Starting point is 00:50:44 and then they pitch you the month of month, right? I'm like, you guys have some sort of a prepay, like, you know, I'll just pay it all up and be done with it. He's like, oh, oh, oh, well, yeah. We have that, it was like a couple hundred bucks. It was only like, I think 280 or 340, something like that. But then I have unlimited tanning,

Starting point is 00:50:59 unlimited red light therapy, unlimited cryotherapy, in addition to the gym access. Like, you would, what you would, is that the, oh, yeah, in addition to the gym access. Like you would, what you would, is that the, oh yeah, that's the gym right there. And it's got, I mean, it's a cool little gym. You know what, boy, they have really capitalized on the whole sign people up and they never show up model. And they've gone lower and lower,

Starting point is 00:51:19 and they provide more and more. To figure out how we attract people and who's not gonna show up, because that's the only way they make money. Listen, this is, okay, in some ways, I know I get teased about this. I think this is membership number five I have right now that I'm paying for.

Starting point is 00:51:33 But here's the justification. So my psoriasis does really well when I'm doing red light therapy and or tanning and it has both of these here. And so I have this motivation of like, well shit, if I wouldn't pay it for a tanning membership, I don't even know anywhere that does just pure red light therapy. So I get the access to that other than mine at home.

Starting point is 00:51:52 And so I'm like, if you were to pay a tanning salon it would be 80 to 100 some bucks a month. And then I have access to the cryo and I have access to the red light therapy. Like that's in, well, what's that's cool red light therapy is getting commercial. Yeah. And there's is a cool stand up bed where it hits me all the way around. Yeah. So I thought that was it's I mean, it's not jive. So I don't what I don't know is the quality of the red light.

Starting point is 00:52:16 Is it up to the standards of what jive is be really interesting to see like a comparison of like what other you know the data on the red light therapy and psoriasis is pretty remarkable. It's like one of the more effective ways to treat it. So what I've never done is the combo of the two. I've experienced both of them individually and seen an impact. Tanne makes a huge impact. When I was competing, obviously I was tanneing a lot.

Starting point is 00:52:39 And so one of the best parts about that is what it did with my psoriasis. I know what I've done with red light therapy of being consistent by using my Juve and how much of that's helped it. I'm curious of combining. Now, do you do the red light pre or post workout? So it depends, because what I've done now is I've alternated.

Starting point is 00:52:57 Like sometimes I'll tan, sometimes I'll do the red light. I'm wondering if, because, okay, red light therapy reduces inflammation. But I normally do it post, because I work out and then it it's nice to do that after. Well, I was just gonna say, so it improves that inflammatory process, recovery, but then on the flip side, activates mitochondria, which could power workouts. So I wonder which is better.

Starting point is 00:53:17 That's why I would love for you to try. Well, I've been doing the creatine stack with it, right? So I do, right after workout, I do creatine and then the red light therapy is like the idea. And I know that's kind of like a theory right now, right? There's nothing to really support. Well, it's all mitochondrial function, right? So I don't mean to, I don't know if stacking at the same time makes a difference,

Starting point is 00:53:36 but it's a good theory though, I would think so. Well, yeah, because the creatine's getting up take into that, right? And if you're enhancing the, basically, the engine of the motor of a cell by doing the red light therapy, I would think that I'm just wondering what, if it would be better pre- or post-workout, I got to think about that. I mean, I've never, I've never used it in, with a workout.

Starting point is 00:53:55 My thought process on that is it's most likely like we talk about almost anything, which is the consistency of using it trumps, the pre-earth post of whatever it is. And what I find for me, if I come in and I get heated up on a red light therapy or a tanning bed before I work out, I don't feel right. I'd rather get warm like train. And then now that I'm coming down,

Starting point is 00:54:17 I can stand in a bed for eight. All pumped up. Yeah, look at my muscles. Yeah, speaking of eating some hot and butter. Speaking of beans to a hot and ballerator. Speaking of, yeah, no, Justin. All the stories. Speaking of heaps. No, speaking of heated up, I gotta talk about this on the show.

Starting point is 00:54:36 What? This has to be, you know, through the course of the podcast, there's like moments that we will always talk about. And remember, and we just had Shailene Johnson on the podcast, there's like moments that we will always talk about. And remember, and we just had Shailene Johnson on the podcast, and she's amazing. We'll air that episode, great episode. She's a fitness icon. And next door, we have all this construction. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:54:56 Oh my God. This is great. So we have all this construction going on next door. And sometimes you can kind of hear it. It's not that loud, not distracting. This time it was excessive. Bro, they were banging elephants. We're just smashing everything. So we start the podcast. We're excited. She's a fitness icon.

Starting point is 00:55:12 We really want to do a good job. Remember too. We're just getting to know her right now. You could tell she's nervous. Yeah, so we're just, you know, but she's, she's a professional. So we're going right when she starts, start the cameras, let's go banging, drilling, it's like jack hammer. It might as well be in the room and we're still trying to do the podcast. I think the guitar is gonna fly off and they take out. And I watch, I'm like trying to maintain focus and at one point Doug goes over because Adam's signaling like, oh fuck, Doug goes over, comes back and nothing happens

Starting point is 00:55:45 and finally Adam loses a shit. We have it on camera. Can we please show Adam jump out? Oh, you have that on camera? We have to. Yeah. Oh God. Bro, Adam jumps out of the chair and runs over there.

Starting point is 00:55:58 It's gonna make me look so bad. I follow him because I'm like, oooh, this is gonna be a fight. And I hear him yelling. how did you hear him yelling? No, I didn't hear it. I imagined what it was sounding like. Here's the thing, just as like I've seen enough of it. Yeah, I knew how Adam does.

Starting point is 00:56:13 I had to like, I was thinking of doing the same thing, but I'm like, I'm gonna cut her camera off, I get out in front and I'm like, there's no easy way for me to like get around. Because it was at that level, it was just like, there's no easy way for me to like get around and because it was at that level It was just like if we it was distracting something like I was making just this guitar swing Yeah, I'm dead serious that was like that was like the tipping point for me I'm like dude this is so bad Doug the fucking guitarist swinging like it's like we can't do this like this is crazy And here's, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, They got a they understand angry. Yeah, that's exactly I don't like they're gonna understand crazy real quick here when I get over there Hey truth though. It was better you than Doug if Doug snaps

Starting point is 00:57:09 Do you think we took Doug holds it? Yeah holds it holds it. Doug's anger I've seen I've only seen I've seen Adam loses temper once a week. I've seen Doug loses temper Twice in my entire life one time like one time on me time on me. And you see it, you're like, oh shit, that was bottled up. Let's put it back inside. Keep it back inside. You're a little pressure valve. I said, because Doug would have thought

Starting point is 00:57:32 that was shit. I have a little more control danger. What, cause you're doing it. You let him do it. You let him do it. You let a volcano, you let out the steam. You let out the steam. There's no eruption or whatever.

Starting point is 00:57:40 Doug's like Yellowstone. Like, oh shit. That's just gonna be a little hot. We did hear a peep afterwards, right? No, no, no. They didn't even say anything to me They just all stopped they dropped their tools. They looked at me and they could see how crazy Just like I could do what you say but the wild part was so the audience can get an idea What's going on here? So next door you're talking about 4,000 square feet a decent-sized building

Starting point is 00:58:03 It's a giant big square. They've been dimming over there for the last month or whatever, and of all the mornings, this morning, literally the whole crew, there's five of them, are all working on the, I don't know what is that, 20 feet Bobcat. 20 feet of wall. 20 feet of wall.

Starting point is 00:58:20 In a 4,000 square minute, they are all banging on it. Like one guy's got a jackhammer, the other guy's got a sludge hammer, the other guy's got a shovel,000 square minute they are all banging on it. Like one guy's got a jackhammer, the other guy's got a sludge hammer, the other guy's got a shovel, it's comical. Yeah, it was comical. It was like literally you guys could not make this worse by today by like rank and at that time when we're either going to stick a dynamite.

Starting point is 00:58:37 Oh, guys, we should have liked this. This is a game with drumstick. Oh, there you go. Look, he's got his cell of back. Can you remember all? I remember we were doing wrestlers. I was with drumsticks Can you remember all of the first time like everybody I've seen like that side of all of us right? I think everybody has had their moment of like I mean we talked about Justin when he stormed out when he thought he was I've never seen Justin lose it though But when he talking about when he slammed that's exactly what I did I pushed a microwave And I got it like when he left the room, yeah, but he's never like, yelled or screamed or anything.

Starting point is 00:59:06 That's how his style, yeah. I think he keeps it bottled pretty good. That's what I think. Yeah. I don't think I've ever lost. So I've ever lost, I can get loud, but I don't think I've ever lost. Even I've gotten into a few loud arguments.

Starting point is 00:59:18 Yeah. There's been a few discussions. They were discussions. Discussions, discussions. Yeah. High volume discussion. They brought us closer every time. I mean, does or no. Because, oh, always. Ohcussion. Discussion. Yeah. High volume discussion. They brought us closer every time. I mean, doesn't know because, oh, always, always.

Starting point is 00:59:28 Absolutely. Do you remember the first time, like maybe before you even knew how we were all going to work together, like the first time, Sal and I got into it? Do you remember? I don't remember the first time, but I do recall the times. And it's always a little bit stressful. You still, does he still get stressed? Yeah, I know it's gonna blow over.

Starting point is 00:59:46 I know it's gonna blow over. I'm gonna get stressed. Now, many times it's happening. Oh yeah, no, no, I don't even know. I mean, just sit over here, wait for things to calm down, then we can say something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's how it works.

Starting point is 00:59:57 And then we try to get you to get a store. Then we try to get you to get as a pick side. Yeah, everything. There's always one of us who tries to recruit you. What do you think, Gunk? Who recruit there. What do you think, dog? Who's lighter? What do you think Justin? Yeah, as we stare at him like that.

Starting point is 01:00:09 It sucks when either one bulldozer gets one each. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing Andrew, you're the fucking tiebreaker now, bro. That's what you do. Welcome to the team. Yeah, we do need a fifth. Yeah, no, it's a good time.

Starting point is 01:00:20 I A A A, truth man, when you got friends that you could argue with, and then afterwards we suspect each other, that's the first. And it's always immediate. It doesn't take long before it's like, it settles and it's, what do you think that, what do you think the main characteristic is that makes that okay and work?

Starting point is 01:00:40 Like my theory and thought is that it, even though there's this this this fighting or whatever going back and forth that it's not from a place of ego right it's not from a place of um and I've been in that place before where I I want to be right I care about that I'm like and you're and you're just that versus like it's it does truly come from a place of love that we share we love this business. We love what we're building. We're love what we're creating so much.

Starting point is 01:01:08 It's just passion. That we're passionate behind it. That we're willing to fight for it. I think there's always you go, but I think that's why the tempers get lost. That's what it comes from. But I think that the trust that the other person wants something good. I don't think that you will have ill intent never so for our y'all and argue whatever

Starting point is 01:01:29 I'm not thinking this this guy's trying to you know, fuck me over this guy has bad intention Yeah, never enters my mind. So I think that's what keeps it always like good and respectful at the end It's like yeah, I think we I think we all when we if we fight like that We all have the same desire to outcome. That's it, that's it. So it's just we really strongly disagree with the pursuit to that desire to outcome.

Starting point is 01:01:53 But I mean, ultimately, if we both agree on, hey, we're trying to better this business. Like, and I think that's why, that's why how I feel when we, any of us argue about that stuff, it's because we both want, that's why how I feel when we, any of us, argue about that stuff, it's because we both want, it's never selfishly driven. It's never you or Justin or Doug argue because you want more of something. I think that you're trying to get over or any of that.

Starting point is 01:02:15 It's always like, this is the best path, I think, for what we're trying to accomplish. And we disagree. And ultimately what's been proven, which I think is made even better is that at the end, whichever direction is decided, everybody's on board. Even if you were against it, well, it's even if it doesn't work out. Yeah. Oh, it doesn't work out. It's all of our loss. It's a team loss. Yeah, we don't, you know, I respect that about you guys. I wanted to bring fun, bring something up to Justin because he wasn't in the conversation. And I think we had it off air. So I hope I'm not duplicating this conversation because I thought it was I think we had it off air, so I hope I'm not duplicating this conversation

Starting point is 01:02:46 because I thought it was really interesting. Wasn't it off air when we were talking to Kara about the dog? It was off air, right? It was. So did you hear about the chat GPT and the guy's dog? Curing the dog? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:02:57 So this guy had a, I don't remember what kind of breed a dog was, whatever, but his dog was like deathly ill, was dying, couldn't figure out what it was, rushed him to the vet, vet run the panels, blood work, lab stuff, right? And came back and said, oh, your dog has this, and then he gave him like the medication,

Starting point is 01:03:14 goes home, he's given his dog the medication, the dog is getting progressively worse, and he's looking like he's gonna die, so he's freaking out. So he takes the lab work, uploads it into chat GBT to get chat GBT's opinion on what are some of the possibilities that this dog could have.

Starting point is 01:03:29 And it spit out three options instead of one. One of the three was what the vet said, then there was two other ones. And then he figured out, I don't know how he teased out one of them. He brought it back to another vet. Yeah. And he said, you see the rock and they salt and they cured the dog. All through chat, you see.

Starting point is 01:03:44 And it's not even optimized for medical for labs and stuff like that. So that is cool. I mean, so there's a bit of optimism there. Meanwhile, you get all the other articles about like it, uh, co-works. I mean, you know, what killed themselves. I like your theory about it being the Antichrist. I agree. He was everything we want. Give us everything we want. Until it kills us. Yeah, I will.

Starting point is 01:04:06 There we go. So that was good news. That I saw something that I thought was interesting that was on the bad news side that I thought was fascinating. And you probably won't be surprised, but I thought the number was high. Do you know how many schools have contracts with Pepsi and Coke?

Starting point is 01:04:22 I do because we have a written up. You dick. You dick. 80%. This is not boiling the answer, isn't that? I know. That's wild. I know. 80% of schools have a contract with Coke and Pepsi.

Starting point is 01:04:37 That's nuts to me. And then I brought up the other day, the lunchables. Yeah. So that's what we're about. It's huge health is business. That's right. It is 100% about, 100% about making money. And that's what we're teaching the generation

Starting point is 01:04:52 coming up is. Lunchables and sodas. Great. There you go. Do we have a shout out that we want to do today? I got a shout out. I don't know if I've, I don't think I've given this guy a shout out.

Starting point is 01:05:00 Jonathan Pejau, I think it's like a last time. Is that the religious guy? He's not religious. He's an expert on symbolism. And if you want to like watch videos and go deep and listen to an intellectual that's going to really blow your mind a lot of different things. Didn't him and Peterson do it every day? Yeah, dude. I mean, I can't I fight watch a stuff. I'll get more symbolism that he is an expert on it. And he explains the value of it, the relevance.

Starting point is 01:05:27 And so we can go into religion, he can go into art, he can go into architecture, why we talk the way we do, why our behaviors all the way we are, and the psychology behind it. So it's Jonathan with a J dot page U, P-A-G-E-A-U. Interesting. Really, really interesting stuff. Yeah.

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Starting point is 01:06:01 for the perfect circadian rhythm. Studies show that sleeping in the right temperature has a profound effect on sleep quality. And these devices are pretty amazing. They control the temperature. They can warm up in the morning to wake you up. You have two sides to them so you and your partner can have different temperature controls.

Starting point is 01:06:18 It's pretty awesome. Go check them out. Go to sleep.me, forward slash pump 30 and get 25% off any of their sleep systems. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Jeffrey from Alabama. Jeffrey, what's happening? How can we help you, man? Hey, nice to meet you guys. Good morning. What up? Hey, I didn't want to take out too much of the time slot with the obligatory appreciation, but I did want to say how much I appreciate

Starting point is 01:06:45 all the stuff you guys do, all the tips you have, a bunch of little things that I've had in my lifestyle that have really helped me out. I've got my wife running Map Center Wallet now, she would be able to tell you that's what she's doing, but that's what she's running and the product recommendations like mass sums for sure has been a huge game changer for me. So thank you to everything you guys do. Awesome. Thank you. So jumping right into my question, how do you plan for someone who has long-term strength

Starting point is 01:07:17 goals in the gym, but without any top constraints such as competition? I'd like to hit specific strength targets in my life such as the 500 plus pound squat, 400 bench, and 600 deadlift. However, I don't have any deadline to achieve these targets. I just want to do them in the healthiest way possible about sacrificing overall health fitness. Damn, I love this question. Yeah, we do. Where are your lifts now by the way? Yeah, I don't think we can help you. You're already stronger than most of us. So squat. My max is like 375, but Monday, third Sunday, I can roll out of bed and hit 345 and a matter

Starting point is 01:07:51 of how I'm feeling. Bench is 295 dead lifts, 425. Okay. How long you've been training for? So super consistent for about two years, stepping to gym for the first time in 22, so about 12 years you get it out. Okay, and you're 20, oh wait, how old are you now? 34, 35?

Starting point is 01:08:09 I'm 33, about 34, right? Okay, and the reason why I'm asking this is I just wanna make sure that these are somewhat realistic goals. How much do you weigh by the way, body weight? So, when I said the mass, I'm a huge thing, I was stuck at like 180 for a while. Even even 4000 calories, that just wasn't processing it. Eating the exact same calories now I've got up to 200.

Starting point is 01:08:31 Isn't that crazy how much of a difference it makes when you can digest something? That was huge. Pretty wild. Okay, so these goals are lofty but possible, but they're big goals. Now, I like the fact that you have goals and that you said you don't have time constraints and you want to do some healthiest way possible. but they're big goals. Now, I like the fact that you have goals and that you said you don't have time constraints and you wanna do some healthiest way possible because these are big goals.

Starting point is 01:08:50 That's a big squat, big bench and big deadlift. And here's what happens, the stronger you get. First off, when people first start working out, strength is one of the best things to focus on. But the stronger you get, the higher the risk becomes with lifting heavier and the less of the reward you get in the higher the risk becomes with lifting heavier and the less of the reward you get in terms of the risk to reward ratio. For example, if you're

Starting point is 01:09:10 squatting 250 and your form is all off a little bit, the risk is not nearly as high as if you're squatting with, say, 450, right? So the most important thing you can do when chasing a goal like this is to alternate heavy powerlifting style strength training, which is very effective at getting you stronger with a focus on mobility slash hypertrophy. Yeah. Yeah. Because what's going to get in your way of these goals more than off, more often than not is your, your function in mobility and then potential instability or risk of injury.

Starting point is 01:09:45 So if you can alternate very intelligently with performance and power lift back and forth. Performance and power lift symmetry would be good, even I would even throw in some body building hypertrophy training, but basically alternate with a focus on power lifting. And little by little, you'll get close to the skull, maybe even hit it, but you won't hit those roadblocks that tend to hit people at this strength phase, which is like

Starting point is 01:10:09 at that level, it's injury and stability. That's what stops people. What programs do you have of ours right now? So, I have the built-in buff one really that I got from my wife. So, it has anabolic aesthetic and kettlebell I believe, and then I have power lift. I picked that up in January, but I haven't started it yet. I was finishing the split that I'm home before I looked into it. I would run power lift, then performance, and then he could run power lift again. Yeah. He could just go keep going back and forth.

Starting point is 01:10:40 Back and forth, and then I'd like Sal, so even like symmetry, I think, to interrupt that just because, I mean, it's so intensely focused. Like, your joints are gonna get a lot of stress and so to constantly keep that in check, I think is gonna be vital if you're trying to do this the healthy way. Yeah. I also think prime pro might be good for you

Starting point is 01:11:03 in between if things start to happen. It's almost inevitable that you're going to run into some roadblocks when it comes to stability. When you're pushing those kind of numbers. At that level, you'll start to notice things and you'll have to kind of troubleshoot, you'll have to take a few steps back before moving forward. To give you an example, I think I was in my early 30s and I hit 600 pounds in the deadlift and that was like my PR. And then throughout the rest

Starting point is 01:11:35 of the time I'd been training, I had that number in my mind, but I was comfortable with 500, maybe mid 500s, low 500s. And then at one point, I try to push it and I kind of tweak something, and then I back off and tweak something. And so I went through six months of focusing on working on what the issues were, even avoiding deadlifts for a little while, focusing on single joint exercises.

Starting point is 01:12:00 And eventually, I went back to pursuing that by doing these kind of micro, you know, maps 15 style workouts, which I'd never tried before. And I was able to break that record, you know, much at a much older age, but I had to take a lot of steps back. And so that's the process that you're going to go through hitting those numbers. There's very few people in the world that I mean, because it's, you know, this is hard to understand if you follow strength

Starting point is 01:12:25 people on on Instagram looks like everybody could squat 500 pounds and everybody could bench press 400 pounds and everybody could deadlift 600 pounds. But the reality is that would place you it those lifts would place you in the you know point 1% maybe even even smaller percent of the world. So it's going to be a slow process and the key is going to be stability, functionality, and then pursuing strength and then backing out. And the trick is going to be not waiting until those issues come up. The temptation is going to be, you're going to run Maps Power Lift, you're going to see great results, you're going to see all those probably go up and then you're going to want

Starting point is 01:13:01 to run it again. And you may, in like the average person, may run something like that again, and actually get away with it one more time. And then what'll happen is, it'll be tempted to do it a third time because you'll see gains again. And then by that third time, they've been working in that sagittal plane so much

Starting point is 01:13:14 and neglecting all the other planes and mobility work that all send their joints start talking to them. And then they see their hard plateau and some sort of a regression. The goal would be, okay, I'm gonna run Power Lift, I'm gonna get my gains, I'm gonna resist the temptation to run it again, I'm gonna go over do something like Maps Performance, which is multi-planiar stuff, mobility work, do all that,

Starting point is 01:13:35 not worrying about hitting PRs or anything like that at that time, they didn't get back into Power Lift again, and you just kind of keep cycling a good mobility-focused program in between your powerlifting cycles. To me, that would be the smartest best way to get to there in a healthy way to where you could sustain those types of lifts. And those are huge goals, especially for your size. You look bigger, I don't know, you were like 222 plus.

Starting point is 01:14:01 I mean, that's 180 to 200 pounds hitting those numbers. Those are legit numbers right there. It's huge Yeah, I really appreciate all the advice like I've had some setbacks with bench press specifically not so much with squat alternate between back squat and front squat up and able to kind of steadily progress on that but It's you know lateral out of terrible like I can probably barely split squat, like 135 even though my squats where it is.

Starting point is 01:14:30 Oh, I'm working in those. Well, that's it. We're getting this. That's a good sign of playing to stomp in that. I haven't done much, and I haven't focused on so. Oh, you identify it. It would be stronger right away. Totally.

Starting point is 01:14:42 Yeah, if you focus on that. Yeah, let's send you performance. And Yeah, if you focus on that. Yeah, I'll let's send you Performance and I'll send you symmetry to I think both of those will benefit you Yeah, and you can alternate those with power lift and don't wait until you start to feel something happen The best thing you could possibly do is you feel good and then you move into mobility and functional style training Also, you want to highlight what you already found out yourself. When you see that, that's actually a really good thing for you. For someone who's chasing continued strength gains

Starting point is 01:15:10 and you want to get bigger and stronger, and you see that you kind of suck at like a Bulgarian split squad or whatever, and you're significantly weaker, that's actually huge opportunity for growth and gains for you. As much as it sucks for the ego, because you got to strip down all this weight, and you know you can squat, as it sucks for the ego, because you got to strip down all this weight, and you know, you can squat, you could bilateral squat way more.

Starting point is 01:15:28 The value of you sticking towards that, you know, you know, lateral type of movement and getting strong in it and sucking at it for awhile. I'm an aiding a weak link in the chain. Yeah, and then when you come back to the bilateral work, you're gonna see huge improvements. Awesome. All right, thanks for calling in, man.

Starting point is 01:15:46 We'll send those over to you. Absolutely, I appreciate it, guys. You got it, man. You know Adam, you made a really good point that took me a long time to figure out, which is it's one thing to be stuck into plateau and to not see any glaring holes. Like, everything kind of, it's hard to figure out.

Starting point is 01:16:05 But when you're stuck and then you see like this big difference between let's say right and left side. Huge opportunity. A split stance versus bilateral, uh, or dumbbells versus barbells. That's like a very easy like, oh, let me just bring that ratio up to where it probably should be and then watch what happens.

Starting point is 01:16:22 I mean, that's such a good, such a good point. It is, but you know, I, I, I, I look at it. Well, it's hard. Like I, so obviously we're all in our 40s. So it's easy to talk about that now. If I really, if I take myself back to my 20s and I remember the first time that I,

Starting point is 01:16:37 I was introduced to Bulgarian split squad, it was something I wouldn't do. Yeah. I wouldn't do it, because I, I mean, I was so weak in the Bulgarian that I could hold 20 pound dumbbells and I was just lit up. Yeah, lit up and I was like fuck that. Like to smith it like stupid.

Starting point is 01:16:51 My girlfriend's right next to me holding 15s. I got 20s and I'm like, I'm putting the barbell back on my back to where she's like, we've got to do some serious weight. And so I would have void it for those reasons. And that of course, that's the young naive side of me, as I've gotten older and wiser and understand the benefits that you just highlighted. It's like, man, now I look forward to that. If I see a discrepancy in my training today,

Starting point is 01:17:13 where I'm like, oh shit, I'm hell, a week right there. It's like, oh, those are gains to be had right there. That's how I see it now. Because what's the usual thing you see when people are pursuing big numbers like this? It's like they want to stay in that sagittal plane, they want to just add any kind of extra help. Either it's like, you know, we get some kind of help support aids in terms of security

Starting point is 01:17:33 around the joints, or we're going to go the pharmaceutical route. You know, and that's what you see. And like, so to be able to actually look at it from a perspective of health and like, how to do this to where you're building your entire body up so it actually can withstand that amount of force. It's a completely different playbook. Yeah, one thing that I did with that atom was that I started doing, I'd say probably the last maybe a couple years, is I only lift really heavy when I work out alone. When I'm in here or in my garage, and when I'm in front of other people now, I make it a point to make it about technique form

Starting point is 01:18:08 and getting the pump. And I do that on purpose because it trained in my ego. Otherwise I get caught up in the line. Instead of peacocking. Yeah, and then you get caught up in shitty form, and I don't want to do that exercise or whatever, but now it's like, I will only lift heavy. I will only test my strength when I'm in here,

Starting point is 01:18:24 and it's just us where I'm by myself because then it's like my My calf training half. Yes, where I wore shorts for a year. Yeah, I force myself to wear shorts every single Psycho deal with this insecurity Our next caller is a nano from South Korea a nano how can we help you? Hi guy. I'm so excited and nervous right now. Hey, so it's Justin don't worry. I'm always nervous. I'm talking with you. I'm struggling with severe depression and I have no idea how much you're helping me and your programs. You guys basically like brought me back to life.

Starting point is 01:19:07 and your programs. You guys basically like brought me back to life. So thank you for that. Oh thank you. And I will question, simple and I only have one question. So I'm an abolic twice. And now I'm running a maps study. In different form, with Maps and Ebola, I feel that I don't, enough, if that makes sense. The workouts I don't fit or any fatigue, as if I worked out at all. The thing is that I myself during the sets, my deadlifts and squats and then increased, challenging when I'm doing them.

Starting point is 01:20:09 As I move towards the end of, I don't really feel any kind of effect to explain it. I don't feel like anything's real, shall I increase my weights or on the tempo or like what shall I do? Okay, so let me, let me, Annabelle, she's not feeling? No, aesthetic. So, okay, so, Anano, just, you're cutting out a little bit, so I'm just going to re, kind of, re say what you said a little bit just for the audience. First off, I'm really happy that we can help you during those dark and hard times. That is like, when we hear stuff like that, that's really good. Yeah, that really drives it. So I appreciate you sharing that. Now, your question

Starting point is 01:20:41 essentially is, you're following maps aesthetic, you're getting stronger, you finish your set, you, in your question, you said you're resting for 90 seconds is recommended, but you just don't feel tired and fatigued. And so your question is, basically, are you doing something wrong? Should you push yourself harder in order to get that feeling of fatigue?

Starting point is 01:21:01 No, in fact, if you're getting stronger, that is all the evidence you need that you're moving in the right direction. Number two, this is strength training. This is not endurance or stamina training. Now, if I was training you for endurance or stamina, we would definitely want to push that kind of fatigue that you're asking about. But when it comes to strength training, ideally, especially if you're getting stronger, you should feel pretty fresh. Yeah, like energized to get to your next set.

Starting point is 01:21:29 So it's not the same as like circuit training or hit training or cardio type training. You shouldn't feel tons of fatigue. And if you're getting stronger, it means you're moving in the right direction. So this is actually very, very good what you're experiencing. This is great. All right. Thank you so much. Yeah. So everything is okay. I should keep going like this.

Starting point is 01:21:50 You're doing good. Sounds like something. You're getting stronger. Yeah. If you're keeping getting stronger, you are completely on the right track. You're moving. This is excellent. And no, you shouldn't feel beat up or fatigued after your workout. In fact, what we say on the show all the time is you should, if you're doing strength training, you should feel good at the end of your workout. Not like you beat yourself up.

Starting point is 01:22:10 That's actually a good indicator. It means you're utilizing the type of intensity that you should probably utilize most of the time with your training to get long-term successful results. Now, that being said, I'd like to send you a free program just because you called in Anano. You did maps in a ball, you're doing maps aesthetic. Mass performance. Yeah, do you have maps performance? I don't. I actually have time crunch bundle and advanced and skinny guy bundle. Oh good. We'll send you performance. Now here's the thing about performance. There's a phase

Starting point is 01:22:43 in performance because it's an athletic-minded training program where you are training for stamina. So there's one of the phases there where you will feel that fatigue, and that's totally normal because you're training in a particular phase for stamina. But we'll send that to you, and you can follow that one after aesthetic if you want. Thank you so much. Can I just ask a tiny question about anabolic? Sure, yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:05 It's OK. Yes. So I know guys, you guys always end it. The program also has trigger sessions, but I ran it twice. And I was struggling with my mental health, and it was really hard for me to push myself to do trigger sessions.

Starting point is 01:23:22 So even though I didn't do them, I still lost weight, gained muscle and lost body fat. So how much importance does it have this trigger sessions? It'll add about 5% to the program. Yeah. Now, 95% of the program is a foundational workout. And 5%'s not a little. Like there isn't a supplement in the world

Starting point is 01:23:43 you could take that would give you 5% improvement. So you'll notice if you get those. You'll notice your recovery will bounce back a lot faster if you do apply those and it actually will contribute towards the next workout. You actually feel a bit more strength going into it. Yeah, so it's definitely there, but it's not the majority. Sure, your session are there to kind of add a little turbo to the program. It's not a lot of intensity. So you just keep it very low intensity, even very moderate.

Starting point is 01:24:15 Yeah, thank you so much. You got it. It's always great to listen to you guys. Thank you so much. You hang in there, huh? Yeah, it's good to see you smile. Thank you. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:24:24 You got it. That's always hits me you smile, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You got it. That's always hits me when I hear someone say something like that. Yeah, because we're not some, our intention is to help people with fitness, but to hear that. Away from South Korea, huh? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:35 All the way from over there. Is that why that, is that why I was choppy? Yeah, it takes a while for the signal to get across the ocean. Mm-hmm, something like that. Yeah. You know how that works out of? Yeah. That's like,, that cable they lay, they're making it up.

Starting point is 01:24:48 The dinosaurs need no idea. You know what, I tell you, you don't hear this too much with people asking us questions because they listen to the show. This is a common question people, clients that I would train what have is they'd be like, well I'm not like breathing, you know, gas me for air, I'm not like sweating off my butt, like what's going on?

Starting point is 01:25:09 Yeah. It's like this is strength training, it's not the same, if you should feel fresh for your next set. This is exactly what we want to feel. This one and the scale not moving, which is so funny to me. You know, it's like, I mean, and it's, I'm back on my kick right now, so I'm experiencing both these things right now and it just, it's like, I mean, and it's, I'm back on my kick right now. So I'm experiencing

Starting point is 01:25:26 both these things right now. And it just reminds me of like, this is like one of the biggest struggles for people that are getting started is one, I've been going, I'm dialed on my diet, training every day for the last month, and the scale is staying the same. The average person would get super frustrated. Yeah. Where I go, that's like the perfect place to be. Yeah, right. And then same, I'm weaker than I've ever been, but every workout, I'm getting a little bit stronger. And so it's like, if I'm getting stronger, my way to staying the same, like, I'm in. You know what's happening. Yeah, I'm in this beautiful sweet spot, but boy, that really gets people, you know, I'm

Starting point is 01:26:00 saying it to not, oh, I'm not killing myself on that super sore. I'm not like, you know, they feel like they need to be crushed, exhausted, or super sore on the workout side. And then on the scale side, they feel like they need to see this swing up or down depending on what their goal is. And the truth is, you actually want to see neither one of those. You want to see this nice, steady gains. I'm strength.

Starting point is 01:26:21 I'm feel good. And you want to feel good. You don't want to feel exhausted afterwards. And you want to see your scale kind of say the same and you have this beautiful exchange of losing body fat and building muscle and that's a great place to be. But it's such a challenging place to be mentally. Yeah, and the other side of that is,

Starting point is 01:26:36 or they'll realize what you're saying. And then they'll say something like this, well, if I go harder, I'll make it happen faster. I'm gonna get pressed a little bit. Yeah, and they really screwed up. Our next caller is Jeff from Pennsylvania. Jeff, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, what's up, guys?

Starting point is 01:26:51 Hey, you know, it's happening. So, my wife actually turned me on to the show. I bought some more like bodybuilding, you know, a lot of bodybuilding podcasts, and you guys have quickly become like my number one go to podcast. So pretty cool. She's a keep it. He actually is. So my questions are I have a couple of different topics, I guess.

Starting point is 01:27:14 So I have a form, my wife thinks I have a form of body that's more fit where I constantly get like, you look huge, you look this can't constantly get like you know hey you look huge you look this you know like you look that and I just I don't believe it myself you know what I mean yep so um so I'm trying to like die it down with um with carbs and I can never seem to like to get a good diet or stay consistent with the diet with carbohydrates. So I cut them out and I do good. I do fine. Later I cut from like 240 down to 207. And that was probably at the expense of some muscle loss.

Starting point is 01:27:57 So I just, I have a hard time like sticking to the diet with carbs due to my job, my working corrections. So I just wanna, I'm obsessed with being as to my job, my working fractions. So I just want to, yeah, I'm obsessed with being as big as possible, you know. And so I just, I have like a hard time just staying on a diet with carbs. So like I said, I cut them out, I do like a keto diet, and that seems to work for me. How would you, I just, I don't wanna give up, I'm having a hard time like maintaining the size that I put on with the carbs, way without the carbs.

Starting point is 01:28:32 Yeah, so good question. So I'm gonna just add something to what you said. You said it works for you, it doesn't. It's not something that works for you. So, and you can cut with carbs. I mean, I'm sure you're aware of that, right? Like you could just cut your calories, keep the protein high, and still drop body fat.

Starting point is 01:28:50 It could also cycle on which I love to do. Yeah, you could also carb cycle. The challenge with, when you're somebody that has a little bit of body dysmorphia, which I can completely relate to, with cutting carbs is you lose water and muscle fullness and you just feel smaller, especially in those beginning stages, you don't get a good pump,

Starting point is 01:29:11 you just start to feel smaller, your strength goes down because the carbs, you lose the glycogen, so you're not as strong in the, and it really starts to mess with your head. It really does start to mess with your head, so that's the challenge with cutting carbs as a way to get leaner. So you can cut without having to cut carbs

Starting point is 01:29:29 or you could cycle the carbs. The other thing is that, you know, because I had the similar issue with that you have when I would get leaner, I would just feel smaller. Yeah. Is that I ignored, I literally ignored the feelings of feeling smaller and I just continued to get leaner.

Starting point is 01:29:48 And at some point, you get to a body fat. Now, this is not necessarily what's gonna help you with your body dysmorphia, if anything, it might make it worse. But I got to a point where I started to really get lean and then it would work out in like a tank top and I would look bigger, okay? But you got to get down to like 10, 9%, 8% body fat for that start to happen.

Starting point is 01:30:08 And then you start to develop a relationship with getting lean where you're like, oh, I look big when I'm lean. Now, that's not gonna solve the body dysmorphia issue. That's gonna kind of help you with the get lean issue. The body dysmorphia issue is much more complex. And that's gonna take a lot of work, you know, personal work on yourself,

Starting point is 01:30:26 and maybe even working with somebody who can help walk you through that. That's something that's much more challenging. So I love to carb cycle when I cut like this. And for sure, the most challenging part is there's about, I don't know, almost every show I ever did, I'd say there's about a three to four week phase that I don't like the way I look. I'm like, I've been in a cut already for like a month or more and like Sal saying you're depleted and when you're depleted of carbohydrates, you gotta understand that our muscle bellies are all carbs and water, right? It's all glucose and water. So if you pull all the carbohydrates out, it's going to flatten what we call embody building, the flat look. So it gives you this kind of flat look. And for

Starting point is 01:31:12 guys that like being big, that like myself and probably like you, that really fucks with your head. And you're like, man, I just, I'd rather be a little fluffier and have all this fullness to me because I feel better and look better and To Salis point I knew I just had to keep going I had to keep going past that point now What would help me is every third or fourth day? I would refeed with lots of carbohydrates and I'd fill all out and then I'd have this great workout And then it would remind me of like oh, I'm not I'm not a lot smaller I'm just depleted and that's part of the process of getting kind of shredded

Starting point is 01:31:47 is you stay in this depleted phase for extended periods of time because that's what forces the body over to utilize fat as it's primary source of fuel. And every time you come out of that, and then it goes jumps back into using glucose. And so I would jump out of it for one day out of the week just so I could see my body all filled out and go like,

Starting point is 01:32:05 okay, I'm not, I'm not little, but I'm depleted. And so I like that idea of cycling every three to four weeks for the mental aspect of how I look. And it helped me through that process. And then I got over this like, you know, it's crazy. And it took probably a few times of getting really lean and shredded. And enough people walking up to me after I'd lose 30 pounds, they'd go, damn dude, how'd you get so big?

Starting point is 01:32:29 I'd be like, what? I'm 30 pounds lighter than what I was at the beginning of my cut, but you look better. You look bigger, you look bigger, you look better. And so it's kind of working through that mental process, but if you've never carved cycle, I mean, I'm a big fan of doing that than going pure keto.

Starting point is 01:32:46 I didn't go every three every three every third day. Every third to fourth day. I actually like for the traditional way of carb-cycling is three days, but I like going, I like going like yeah, too low, medium, and then a high. And that was like, that was my formula for me. Like that I thought worked really well and I'd see myself lean out. And then all I needed was one day a week of me filling back out to to remind myself like okay I'm not I'm not tiny I'm not small it's just I'm depleted that's all. Yeah so I have tried carbs like I have tried like Justin

Starting point is 01:33:15 Harris's carbs like in protocol and just different things and I just I get so like bloated on the carb days you know what I mean like I just get like to the point where I'm, you know, I'm nauseous, like, you know, I have thrown up. Like just like, you know, have you, yeah, I'm just say, have you, have you played, have you paid attention to certain types of car behind race? Cause that's another thing that I over competing. Or even the amount.

Starting point is 01:33:38 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe the amount is just too much. Like it's just, a lot of white rice, you know, like in just, I just feel like I I'm and then I kind of lose control Like I start to like binge and slide. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's so that's kind of that was one of the things I saw a lot in the competitive world is bodybuilders that would on their quote unquote refee days they'd be eating shit. They need all kinds of stuff where I stayed disciplined You know, it was always sweet potatoes white white rice, and like maybe quinoa.

Starting point is 01:34:06 Also keep this in mind, Jeff, like what would be considered a carb low day? It can really vary depending on the individual and their sensitivity to carbohydrate. That's right, especially for somebody who says that they've ran low to no carb for extended period times. So when I was competing, I got to a point

Starting point is 01:34:23 where I could eat 600 grams of carbs, and my body loved it, absorbed it, and I looked great on it. Today, I can't eat more than about 250 to 300, because I've completely flipped the way I eat, and for an extended period of time, I've been low carb. So now my body has recalibrated to that. So now, if I wanted to do a quote-unquote refeed day, or what I'd call a high carb day now, it'd be 350 maybe 400. If I hit 600, I'd probably throw up. Even for me, my carb load days, loading days were like 175 for me.

Starting point is 01:34:54 And I'm just very sensitive to carbohydrates because I would experience what you would get. I'd get that nausea from the insulin spike, the glucose spike, I'd get bloating. So it was like 150, 75 was my high carb day. So you're just going too hard on that carb load day. Yeah, that's probably around 500 for a high carb day. Yeah, that's probably just too much.

Starting point is 01:35:15 Especially for a guy like you who actually is run low to no carb, too. Yeah, if you're going like 50 grams of carbs on your keto days or 70 grams of carbs, try 150, 200 grams of carbs on your keto days or 70 grams of carbs try 150 200 grams of carbs in your load days Yeah, you feel okay I want to have I'm gonna have I want to have Doug cuz I'm like really curious to help you through this process too because this is kind of This is where you can't really just take somebody else's advice even our advice and just like oh the guy said eat this this and this and I'm gonna do it like we got to kind of try some things to kind of figure out where that sweet spot is

Starting point is 01:35:46 for you. So I want Doug to put you in the private forum. And then I'd love to kind of hear you, you know, playing with some of these different protocols and then giving us feedback so I can hear how you're feeling when you do certain things and then give you even better advice. Okay. Yeah. Jeff, one more thing, your correctional officer,

Starting point is 01:36:06 and you've got, you know, the whole, you mentioned the body dysmorphia thing. What helped me at one point was doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, because in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, I actually got to like, you know, fight with other guys, and I could see that, you know, size played somewhat of a role, but my technique played more of a role, and it made me feel more confident at smaller sizes,

Starting point is 01:36:30 and that'd be so obsessed with being big, because I could actually test it, right? And so just one thing to keep in mind, because I know your job, there's always a threat of physical altercations, so that's just another thing you may want to consider. You could always hang out too with smaller people, that helps. Doug hangs out with all little people.

Starting point is 01:36:48 That's all his friends. His best friends are all like, you know, 5'1, 180 pounds. I do. And that's the thing. And as soon as I see like, I have four kids. So be my wife and four kids are in a picture. I take up half the picture of that, but I'm like, oh wait. I am a baby.

Starting point is 01:37:03 Maybe I'm wrong. Good deal, Jeff. Well, keep us posted. We're dugs gonna throw you in our private forum, so you're in there. Make sure you tag me when you post in there, but just keep me posted as you're working through that process as far as playing with different diets and foods. Like keep us posted and then we'll communicate with you in there.

Starting point is 01:37:22 Yeah, my other question was I just, I've been training for like a good eight years. Well, I, you know, good weight training for eight years. It saved my life completely. I was into some dark places and, uh, and I believe it really pulled me out of that. So I've been training like five to six days a week. Really hard and, um, a lot of volume, a lot of intensity. We're like, I said bodybuilding style training. I just feel like I kind of plateaued, like a stalemate.

Starting point is 01:37:50 So I started running aesthetics in the last few weeks and I really like it and I feel that the focus days helped me to beat that anxiety of having to be at the gym five to six days a week. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So like I feel like I have to be there. I gotta be there. I gotta be.

Starting point is 01:38:12 I gotta go. I gotta go. And I just can't like, I tried to do on a baller before and I just didn't really care for the trigger days. I just needed that like needed to be at the gym. Yeah, focus sessions are perfect. I mean, that's why I love dysthetic, bro. I mean, that program was written

Starting point is 01:38:27 and inspired by my competing days. And so I like that, too. I like being, just being at the gym, you know? But you know, with a guy like you, you know, you have to, the thing where you gotta check yourself is to really learn to listen to your body. And it's okay to go to the gym seven days a week,

Starting point is 01:38:43 just learning to modify the intensity. You go to the gym seven days a week. Just learning to modify the intensity. You can't hammer it seven days a week or else your body is going to push back and you're going to be stuck in a hard plateau. And I've learned this lesson so many times over decades of training. Like I always end up kind of pushing those limits and then I'm always reminded when I peel back a little bit and run a program that is like an anabolic or a Maps 15 or something that's way later that I don't like per se doing, but then my body also didn't response to it

Starting point is 01:39:10 and that's always that reminder of, oh, I was redlining for too long. So keep that in mind when you have that tendency that your body will probably thank you to pull back on intensity every now and then. Yeah, I need to pull back. I need to pull back. I can do the D-load week. Listen to you guys. Finally got me to do a D-load week, I need that. I need to pull back. I can do the D-load week. Listen to you guys.

Starting point is 01:39:25 Finally got me to do a D-load week and I appreciate that. But it was hard. It was really hard for me to get there and do the 50% intensity, 50% weight, and just trying to keep everything under control. I just have a hard time not being at the gym since it's such a big part of my life. Yeah. But I think, I think, you know, I think aesthetic works for me. You guys think that that would be a good program. You know, I actually think your maps had a bulk advance. So, oh, yeah. He's having to have like, oh, yeah, you would love it. I think in an a bulk advance,

Starting point is 01:39:59 you would actually really like and it, and it programs the deal. That's a, that's a six day week program. Yeah, it's a six day a week and it programs D-Loading in there. So I actually think that you would love it. Oh, yeah, you'll like it. We'll have Doug send that to you also. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, check that out.

Starting point is 01:40:13 But I do think aesthetic is cool too. So I mean, if you're in the middle of aesthetic, maybe finish it and then go to Anna Balk advance, but I think Anna Balk advance, you're going to really like it. I think it'd be really good for you. Okay, cool. Right on.

Starting point is 01:40:23 All right, thanks, Jeff. Appreciate that. Thanks. Jeff. Appreciate that. Thanks. I really got it. Yeah, sometimes when people hear a body dysmorphia, but not the common, like, you know, I'm too fat and they see it like a dude that's like jacked or whatever's like, I'm not big enough to.

Starting point is 01:40:37 They don't believe you. They don't believe it. That just, you know, I've heard people say me it's silly, you know, but body dysmorphia is more fiend. It's literally you cannot be, well nobody's objective when they silly, you know, but body is morphine, it's literally you cannot be Well nobody's objective when they're you know looking at themselves, but boy are you far from objective? You know what I would make the case and this you know If you were an outside

Starting point is 01:41:00 Person that's like a therapist that's into health and everything and you have you're not in the sphere at all You'd probably say that a good percentage if not most All people that are hammering those weights and got big boulder shoulders and the arm like all have oh Yeah, cuz that that is not a reflection of like true true health now We all we all aspire to look that and we when we highlighted on it on magazines and we praise these bodies that look like that, but it's not a shining example of health. And most people that train and diet so hard to look at, we have a bit of a obsession that way.

Starting point is 01:41:37 Now, and I would say, now, granted, if you're going to be addicted to something, you're going to be obsessed about something, it's probably one of the best decisions. But the truth is, there's definitely a little bit of body dysmorphia in all of us to be going to the gym that much that often to keep pursuing better shoulders, better legs, but I mean, we're already at that healthy point. And if anything, we probably need more of recuperative. No, I make no qualms.

Starting point is 01:42:07 I mean, I, in fact, I think I remember I said this. I think I said this on another podcast where I said, you know, they asked me about my workouts and I gave the disclaimer, like quick disclaimer, I trade performance, I trade strength, I trade muscle building for longevity. So the way I work out is not pro necessarily longevity and health. I consider that, but if I'm being quite honest, that's not the thing that I chase most

Starting point is 01:42:33 often. And it's always a trade off. And, you know, I've kind of accepted it and working through it. And, you know, I'm sure I'll get better at it with time, but you're right. I don't mean it's something that I think everyone's dealing with, here's the beauty though of going to the gym and training yourself. You work through it and you eventually start to, if you stick to it long enough, slowly start to figure this out. You really do because it requires work. It's not the same as getting plastic surgery. It's not the same as taking a drug or whatever. You have to go in and train

Starting point is 01:43:03 yourself and work on things. And that is a different process. It builds different relationships. And again, if you stick to it long enough, you really start to figure this out. And it might take you till you're 50 or 60 to do so. But you will eventually start to figure this out. Our next caller is Lisa from Washington, DC. Hey Lisa, how can we help you? Hey, so before I tell you my question, I want to give you guys an audio complement and I know you focus hard on your audio anyway, but I have a next level complement for you because I have cochlear implants and podcasts have just never been audible to me. I have to have subtitles or be able to lip read. So I just kind of wrote it off as a medium, but I gave you guys a listen and I can hear you freaking perfectly. I don't need a single caption. So I got a bet that with the size of your audience you've been made pod-cost,

Starting point is 01:43:59 successful to hard-appearing people that never before could listen. Oh, good job, amazing. You just made Dubs, Dubs have been having a hard day today, a real hard day. So you just made his day right now, that's awesome. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. What do you got for us? Okay, my question. So I am a bikini competitor, and I know a lot of your advice, you say, it's kind of

Starting point is 01:44:23 for GenPop and you give the caveat that the 1% of crazy bodybuilders out there might not apply to. But with one thing that you say that I think applies across the board is that breaking a workout into 15 minute increments benefits everybody, no matter how advanced of a lift you are. So I want to do that. And I currently train about between 60 to 75 minutes on my weightlifting workouts. So I want to break it apart. But because I'm competing, I have a big emphasis on how I structure my food for the workouts. And I've been doing simple high-calb foods

Starting point is 01:45:04 around my workouts, and then saving fat and fiber and all the densest stuff for the other meals. And I have my creatine and my pre-workout before the workout. So how would you structure the food if I'm breaking it up into 15 minute increments? And the secondary thing I've been wondering about there is how much of this carb around workout philosophy is based on giving you energy and recovery versus muscle gain and muscle retention because I get that if it's about recovery and energy, you probably don't even need it if you're breaking up your workouts into 15 minutes.

Starting point is 01:45:40 I love this question. I've been waiting for somebody to ask us a fun question. Okay, so let's talk about what actually is important first in this question. I've been waiting for somebody to ask this. Yeah, that's a fun question. That's right. Okay, so let's talk about what actually is important first in this regard. So first off, to clarify, you'll be taking a normal workout, and instead of doing it in one shot, you'll be doing several workouts in the same day where the workout's broken up, correct? Okay.

Starting point is 01:46:00 So, let's talk about what's actually important, which would be the pre-workout. This is where this question starts to make sense, is what do I do with my pre-workout, if I'm gonna work out three times a day, and I take a pre, I can't take three pre workouts, I've been insane amount of caffeine or whatever. My answer to that is you don't take a pre-workout, or you just take it for the first one,

Starting point is 01:46:21 and the rest of them there is no pre-workout. So there's really no way around that, unless you wanna break up your pre-workout dose, in which case, you might be taking the caffeine too late in the day, which might influence your sleep. You won't need it though, you've already expressed this out many times. When you notice about short workouts,

Starting point is 01:46:39 is you get energized. Yeah. That's what's kinda cool about the short workouts is, you don't have that same kind of fatigue feeling that you get when you do a 75 minute workout or you start to drop off. That's what I did. I would take the pre workout in the morning and then the rest of the day I would just, you know, minus the pre workout. Crateen, doesn't matter. Just take a post one of the workouts. That's also splitting hairs. This doesn't make a big difference. Now nutrition, nutrition with the carbs and when I kind of cycle in or put in my energy

Starting point is 01:47:07 and take with my workouts, that only matters when you're doing really long, really grueling workouts. The data is pretty clear on this. It actually makes no difference with, it actually makes no difference with most strength training workouts. Now, it makes a difference with like hard endurance, stamina type workouts that are long, but even most strength workouts, traditional strength workouts, it actually doesn't make that big of a difference.

Starting point is 01:47:29 Let alone three short workouts. So what I would say is the only thing to consider is you don't wanna eat necessarily right before your workout because then you have a full stomach while you're doing the workout. But aside from that, the rest of the day doesn't matter. You don't need to eat post workout, you don't need to have carbs during your workout, makes zero difference. If you have, you know, have the carbohydrates after or if you have a two hours later,

Starting point is 01:47:53 make zero difference. Now, the what would dictate when or how I eat would be how far apart these are spread out, right? So let's say, so let's say we're going to do it in three segments, they're each going to be about 25 minutes or 30 minutes long. Right, if I'm doing my math right, about 25, 35 minutes long. If you have four hours in between the first one, the second one, you definitely, I would try to eat right in the middle of that. Right, so I get refueled, I get a good hour to two hour digestion before I get into that next, next workout.

Starting point is 01:48:24 I think that's about the only thing that I would probably try in somewhat time. Like I would try and avoid eating like a big meal like right before I go back into another 15, although like Sal's point, it's probably not gonna affect that much. So you could kinda play with this. You could see, you could eat your total normal eating schedule

Starting point is 01:48:43 and just stay on it and then just schedule your workouts how they fall. You'll probably feel fine, have no issues. But if you notice, like, oh, wow, one of my workouts landed right after a big meal and I felt a little lethargic getting into my workout, then then push the meal back a little bit or skip the meal completely before the workout and get it post workout. So you're, as far as the timing with what you're doing, it is not going to affect or hinder gains whatsoever. Yeah, I really is going to come off a personal preference on how you how you like to eat during these these little broken up workouts.

Starting point is 01:49:16 Yeah, the way I would do it is let's say if I did three, 20 to 25 minute workouts is I would do the first one before breakfast, the second one before lunch, and the third one before dinner. That's how I would do it. Just because I would work, I would feel better that way than doing it right after breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Thank you. I will do that.

Starting point is 01:49:34 And is there any rhyme or reason at all to doing, like, more of the compound movements at certain times or just whatever of my personal preferences? So you may find, here's what you, just two things you can do. You can take your normal workout and just divide it into three workouts. So wherever it falls, it falls. So you do your first workout and then you see how I finish these exercises. Here's the next set of exercises for the second workout. And then here's the next set of exercises for the third workout.

Starting point is 01:50:00 That's totally fine. But here's what's probably going to happen. You're going to notice you're going to feel stronger, you're going to feel more recovered, and those, you know how it is with your 75 minute workouts. The exercises at the end are the easier single joint, finish the get-out, finish-your-type exercises. You may find that, because you feel so good, you're going to be like, I actually want to do more compound lifts. So you could play around with this a little bit, but you can also just break up the workout that you normally do, which would be totally fine.

Starting point is 01:50:28 I mean, I would personally put my compound lifts at the time that you've probably, since you've been lifting for a while already, that you have figured out is your favorite lift. For example, if I was doing the breakfast workout, the lunch workout, and the dinner workout is how I was gonna split my routine, I know my body already well enough

Starting point is 01:50:46 that I'm gonna perform my compound lifts best at the second workout than I would the first workout. Because I'm not a good morning lifter, I just, I'm like, just and I both take until noon to wake up. So if I'm coming in and I'm trying to hit heavy squats at six or seven or eight a.m., it's not gonna feel my best. But by noon or one of my second workout,

Starting point is 01:51:07 I'm probably gonna feel my best. So this is gonna be another personal preference. I would suggest playing with it. You know, do one time, try your heavy heart compound lifts first, see how it feels, then do it second and then do it last, and then let that drive. Now, here's what I did. Here's what I did, that I've messed with all of these, Okay. Here's what I did that I got the best results from. Instead of

Starting point is 01:51:29 doing the first set of exercises with the first workout and the second one for the second, which is fine. You could do that. Or instead of doing like what Adam said, what I would do is in, let's say I was doing, let's say the total workout was 12 sets for example four exercises three sets each. I would do one set of every exercise every workout and I got amazing results with that. So every workout looked the same. I just did one third of volume of every exercise. So it was like let's say it was you know squats, bench overhead press, row or whatever. I would do that again the second time, that again the third time. I would just do one third of the sets, the first time, one third of the sets, the second time, one third of the sets, the third time.

Starting point is 01:52:12 And I got because of the frequency of each workout and the way that it stimulated my muscles, I got such great results doing that. Would you then have to warm up in time for each one each session? No, I actually found that I did that for the first one and I felt fine the second and third time. I actually, it was one of the strangest feelings is I would jump into the second workout and the third workout and it's like I was already primed and warmed up because I had worked out. You don't really hurt yourself to fatigue that way. No. Yeah, so it's like, yeah, you don't really have to consider that as much, so it's like the warm up is basically you're just going through it and you're strong to the point where you're

Starting point is 01:52:49 not even feeling fatigued. It was really weird. Like I just, I the first workout I had to do my priming, warming up, then the second one I'd get into the bar and be like, whoa, I feel great. And the third workout, wow, I feel great. It was really, really interesting. But you know, experiment, if you've never trained like this before, give yourself a week or two to kind of like get used to it. At least that, and I would suggest trying kind of all of ours. You know, let's have Doug put you in our forum, because I would love to hear,

Starting point is 01:53:15 this is such a fun question to, and the fact that you're high level type of person who's been training for a while at a competitive level. You'd be a fun person to experiment this with, and I'd love to hear your feedback as you try all of them out, what you're noticing. This is cool. Okay, I'd love to give it to you.

Starting point is 01:53:32 All right. Thanks for the compliment, by the way, I appreciate that. Thank you. You got it, Lisa. Right. Right. Most people don't can't do this, right? Right, right.

Starting point is 01:53:42 This is not a novel watch here. But, dude, you know, know it was it's the weirdest So you had you had better you had better. Yes, that's interesting. It was really we remember I told you guys I would even I would even do it more than three times in a day. I would do like Yeah, you do like five or six sets every other hour Yeah, but it was like the same exercises each time and And it's really strange how your body adapt. Actually, you get stronger as the day goes on. It's gonna take a very unique person

Starting point is 01:54:11 to I think have that same experience as you because you have probably a better ability to get right in the groove of something. Or one of the perks of separating exercises by the workout is you get three sets to get in the groove where you are saying basically by the second exercise you're able to get under that barbell squat and it's like you're you're I didn't expect it's a working set. It's really weird.

Starting point is 01:54:38 Yeah, it's very very strange. Like literally someone's listening right now, you could do three sets of squats three times a day in the day, and watch how you feel with the second and third workout. And there's actually studies that show that priming and warming up, like the effects of it last for like two or three hours. It's not like it has to happen right before there's some effects that linger for a little while. It makes sense, but I mean, my tendency would be to just what Adam said, because it's like the morning I'm like,

Starting point is 01:55:05 I just want to like kind of put in the work, but then like a brown noon or like one o'clock is where I for sure feel my strongest, and I would be more inclined to lift heavy and do my compound. So when I have done this, I've done a not a formal way of doing this, like so I have done like this mobility-esque,

Starting point is 01:55:26 functional type exercises early, but I don't need a lot of strength. And I'm really kind of, it's like almost like I'm priming the body and I'm kind of waking it all up and getting a little bit of a pump but not really training hard. And then the second workout is the one where I'm like,

Starting point is 01:55:40 okay, this is where I'm gonna load, this is the one where I'm gonna try and, you know, hit my deadlift or my squat or like a big compound lift. And that's because I know, I know that I need to have a meal or two at least in me for me to really feel a good workout. What's most strange about experimenting with this was, at the end of the day, I had done so much volume

Starting point is 01:56:00 that normally had I done that much volume in one workout, I would have felt like I overdid it. But by the end of the day, I felt far from overdoing it. I was like, wow, I feel like, in the next day, I felt pretty damn good. And I had strength gains almost immediately with like two or three days later. You know, this is also what I really like

Starting point is 01:56:17 about this conversation is how unique and different all of us are. And you could do a study to try and prove someone's point is more effective here. Yeah. Like, and this is just an example of how unique and different all of us are. And you could do a study to try and prove someone's point is more effective here. And this is just an example of our space and what we do and why people should caution people to like take a study and go like,

Starting point is 01:56:38 oh, this is the best way to do it because, well, what if you just respond different to, you know, food timing or... And you will. And you will, right? And all that stuff matters. This is why it's good to take that, like, take information that we get from good research and use it as a baseline, but to not be afraid to kind of venture out a little bit of that and experiment with it with yourself, because what we might find, she may have a whole

Starting point is 01:57:03 different, you know, way of, she may have a whole different way of her protocol may look completely different. Yeah, maybe she does all the crazy heavy stuff at the beginning and then she tapers off or maybe she waits all the way to the end of the night. Yeah, the end of the night. Well, she's the right person because she's a competitor. So she's measuring, tracking. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:57:19 So yeah, it'd be good. Exactly. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to Mind Pump Free.com and check out all of our free guides and information that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on Instagram, Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

Starting point is 01:57:41 and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal and an adjustment as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family.

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