Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2063: How to Learn to Do a Pull-Up, Effective Strategies to Balance Food Enjoyment With Fitness Goals, How to Start Taking Control of Your Fitness After 40 & More

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer four Pump Head questions drawn from last Sunday’s Quah post on the @mindpumpmedia Instagram page.  Mind Pump Fit Tip: Fitness & health is NOT black or white. Long-term success is understanding there is a lot of GREY area. BALANCE is how you stay healthy in the real world. (2:05) Adam’s ‘cottage cheese’ ice cream experiment. (16:24) Making that conscious effort to be active/physical and get outside. (19:34) The disruption of the education system is coming. (27:45) The A.I. toothpaste is out of the tube. (32:23) Highlighting the importance of human connection. (41:18) How Caldera works with your skin and not against it. (47:43) Sal’s experience with Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) therapy. (49:08) Shout out to Dr. Jordan Peterson. (1:04:15) #Quah question #1 - I cannot do a pull-up for the life of me. What could I do to substitute the pull-ups in MAPS Anabolic? (1:05:06) #Quah question #2 - What are some effective strategies to help clients find the right balance of enjoying their food and tracking their calories and macros, but not being so meticulous that it drives them to give up on themselves? (1:08:04) #Quah question #3 - How would you recommend a completely deconditioned 40-year-old start their fitness journey when all they’ve done for the past 20 years is walk? (1:14:55) #Quah question #4 - How do you calculate the volume of compound exercises when you have to write a program? For example, when you program dips, do you count it as volume for the triceps or chest (or both)? (1:18:00) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Magic Spoon for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP at checkout** April Promotion: MAPS Anabolic or MAPS Split 50% off! **Code APRIL50 at checkout** Research shows effects of 'hyper-palatable' foods across 4 diets Cottage Cheese Ice Cream Jordan Peterson on schools Khan Academy AI generated song of Drake and The Weeknd goes Viral  Portland Rubens' Tube - Music Trials EMDR Therapy: How It Works, Benefits, Uses, and Side Effects Visit Sleep Breakthrough by biOptimizers for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP10 at checkout** Pull-Up Regression - YouTube How To Do A Pull Up | Banded Pull Up Regression (TRY THIS) Mind Pump #1907: Nine Ways To Get Lean Without Counting Calories Mind Pump #1447: How To Start Your Fitness Journey MAPS 15 Minutes MAPS Starter Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Jordan Peterson (@jordan.b.peterson) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded Fitness Health and Entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered listeners' questions after we did a 65 minute introductory portion of the episodes, a fun one by the way. This is where we talk about current events, fitness studies, our family lives, and much more. By the way, you could check the show notes for timestamps

if you just want to skip around to your favorite parts. Also, if you want to ask a question that we can answer on an episode like this one, Go to MindPumpMedia on Instagram and post it there. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Magic Spoon. This is high protein cereal gluten-free that tastes like the cereal you grew up eating watching Saturday morning cartoons. I'm not making this up.

Like a bowl of this cereal is like 30 grams of high quality way protein and it tastes amazing, and it's like no, almost no sugar. It's like, that's what they call it, magic spoon. It really is magic. Go check them out. Go to magicspoon.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code, mind pump, get $5 off.

This episode was also brought to you by Caldera Lab. They make skincare products that work with your skin, not against it. So whether your skin's oily or dry or uneven, user product, it actually works remarkably well. A bunch of meat heads like us even use their stuff all the time. Go to calderalab.com that's caldera spelled with the C, forward slash mind pump, user code mind pumping, 20% off your first order of the good serum. Also, there's only three days left

for our Maps April Special to workout programs, 50% off. Maps, Annabolic is half off, and Maps Split is half off. If you're interested in either one or both, just go to mapsfitinistproducts.com and then use the code April 50 for the 50% off discount. All right, here comes a show. Here's probably the best general advice for long term

fitness and health success. Fitness and health is not black or white. You live in the real world, long term success is understanding that there's a lot of gray area. Balance is how you live in the real world, but also stay fit and healthy. And this is especially true when it comes to nutrition. 50 shades of fitness.

Yeah, I wasn't gonna say that one. Yeah. That's how you eat, right? No, I wanna say this because one of the biggest, I'd say, challenges, I love you guys' feedback on this. I'm sure you experienced this as well, is that people, they go on off, right?

It's all on, all off. And they have a tough time finding the balance between the two. So it's like, and I get where the argument, I don't agree with this, by the way, but I understand the root of the argument, there are no bad foods, right? There are no bad foods when people say that.

And I can see where they're coming from. I think their messaging is wrong, but it's that on off good, bad, and I'm only gonna do things this way, I'm only gonna do things that way. And if I do this, that means I'm not doing anything for my health and I've been doing this, then everything is for my health.

And that produces an unsustainable, long-term relationship with health and fitness. So we've created too many wagons and too many tribes for people to subscribe to and it's like if you're not on this, then you're failing and it's a very effective way to push people into like momentum. It's like a very effective way to push people into momentum. It's like, I look at fitness a lot with, it deals with a lot of momentum and insecurities. And those are like the two, like sort of north stars for any company out there. It's like, we gotta get,

we gotta get these people by capturing their momentum and then pushing them by saying like, all these things that they're terrible at. Yeah, hype them up. Like, you're doing awful with this and you need to jump on this method and then pushing them by saying like all these things that they're terrible at. You're doing awful with this and you need to jump on this method because it's gonna solve everything for you. It's very extreme. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So like a good example, one of the points that we've probably made on the show, most consistently is the kind of the challenges with hyper-palatable ultra-process food. Like we've said this many, many times. It's probably, not probably, I would argue this all day long, the single biggest cause of the obesity epidemic. I think it's multifaceted, it's more complex

than just one thing. But if I would have, if I had to pick one thing that had the biggest impact, it was the prevalence of these ultra-process foods that we now have very, very good studies to show that they just make you overeat. They just make you overeat. They overcome systems of satiety. They throw things off to the point where you're going to eat five or six hundred more calories a day if your diet is mostly comprised of these things. And again, if you look at how much these foods have permeated or penetrated

our overall diets, right around the 70s, they really started kicking in, 80s, they really started ramp up, and it's just been an uphill trend since then. And so that kind of matches this obesity explosion. And then if you look at countries like Mexico, Mexico is a great study of this because they did not deal with obesity and then, relatively recently, all of a sudden, it became a big problem. And it was the adoption of these ultra-process foods. It went from an almost all-natural whole-food diet to a diet where all of a sudden these foods started coming in.

So you hear us make this argument all the time. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because you may get the idea that there's no value in ultra-process foods at all, and that they're the demon, they're the devil. And if you gosh, if you eat one, boy, did you just make a huge mistake? And then what that could do is that could create this scenario where someone has ultra-process food. They're like, screw it. I'm already off. I'm just done. I'm on and off again, right? So now I'm off and then forget it. And then when I'm already off. I'm just done. I'm on and off again, right? So now I'm off and then forget it. And then when I'm on, I'm going to be totally perfect. Ultra-process foods, I mean, they have value because of the shelf life.

You could put a box of something on the shelf and it lasts a long time. They're easy to travel with. It's hard to travel with whole natural foods. You know, get on a plane and go on a long flight with fruits and vegetables and meat and this isn't going to work very well. So they travel well. But here's the other value. Their other value is there is some value in its ultra-palitability. That excitement and euphoria that you get from eating something or experiencing something, there's some value in that. There really is. It can be fun and enjoyable. You just have to be aware of its potential

negatives, but if you just avoid something completely to the point where, if you have some, now you feel like you've totally screwed up and you're going to go totally off, well, now you're missing the entire point. Now, that being said, there are ways to do things in this great area that cause less damage, or maybe even help contribute to your goals while you enjoy some of the benefits of that euphoria and enjoyability. Luckily, the health and fitness industry has created foods that are higher in protein, that are also somewhat ultra palatable. So if you're like, hey, I want to have something really tasty that I can keep in the closet of the pantry. Now I can reach for magic spoon cereal, for example, instead of fruitloose.

That's how I use that. I use it more like a dessert. I know it's designed to be like this on the go fast, like breakfast for a lot of people, which I think that's okay too. But I have the, that night, there's many times where, and this is because I've had this behavior of eating ice cream for so many years late at night, that will resurface. I didn't get a great night. Sleep the night before or what with that, and then also I'll have that craving, and then

I have this. I feel like I still get a little bit of that sweet reward. It's enjoyable. It's not obviously an ideal thing, like chicken and rice, like a perfect balance. Yes, sitting down in front of the TV with a steak is not gonna hit the scene. Yeah, exactly.

So it feels like I'm getting a little bit of a treat, and it is a little bit of a treat in its process, but then I'm also, you know, it's manageable calorie wise, even if I have a massive bowl of it, it's still under 500 calories. I mean, you have 50 grams of protein. Yeah, and I'm getting a bunch of protein. And so, in many times, I'm still chasing my protein target. So I think there's places for that. Are there other things that you guys

have? Are there like basic rules or are there things that you have come to like over the decades now of training and finding that balance? Because to be honest, I really feel like it's only been in the last five to eight years that I think I have really found a good balance of not having these massive on and off swings. Like I would say, even just in the last year or two, I've had moments in my training where I've been very inconsistent, I haven't been really dialed in.

But in the past, in times like that, that's also when I go off the rails with eating. It's also when I would just be eating tons of ice cream, eating junk food. And then I would happen in the past is I let myself get out of control for a little bit, Eating tons of ice cream, eating junk food. And then I would, what would happen in the past is, I let myself get out of control for a little bit, then I'd have this kind of come to Jesus moment

where I go like, okay, I'm starting to put on too much body fat. I'm not doing this. And then I would, and then I go hard the other way where, you know, and I think if you've listened to the show long enough, you probably heard me even expressing that, you know, there was times where I was saying I was really healthy. I just wasn't aesthetically ripped, but that's because as I was not training as much, I was also balancing out the way I ate, which I wasn't doing in the past.

Yeah, the difference is when you do the whole on the wagon, off the wagon thing, like most people do, your swings are so wide and dramatic. So it's like this. It's huge swings. So for most people, if they were to look at their body weight, their fitness, their health, body fat percentage, whatever, over let's say a 10 year period on a graph, it would be like this. Bing, Bing, Bing, like huge swings,

you know, 15, 20 pounds or, you know, maybe more. It's actually more, once you start to kind of figure this out and you develop this relationship with these things that we're talking about, you still have swings. I don't want to say that you're going to stay like this all the time. Right. It's impossible. Because life is not like that. Just less dramatic. It's like this. Yeah.

Your swings are so mild in comparison and you're aware of the values and the, and things that are valuable and things are not valuable during that period of time. So for me, it's more like I am just really aware of why, when I'm getting out of this particular, you know, this bag of chips or magic spin. I know what I'm getting out of it particular, you know, this bag of chips or magic spoon, I know what I'm getting out of it. I'm getting the taste really good. It's a treat, it's fun, it's cool right now. Not the whole like, oh crap, what did I do?

I just screwed up my diet, you know, type of deal. It's more like, oh yeah, I know what I'm getting and what I'm maybe sacrificing and because I'm aware of that, then I do, I mean, think, look, here's another, here's a good example. Most people, when they go off a diet, the first few meals, when they're off the diet, don't look anything like balance. They look extreme. It's like, oh, I went off my diet. Oh,

yeah, what did you eat? A whole box of cookies. Would you ever, at any of the moment, would you eat a whole box of cookies? Well, no. Well, what happens? I just swing so hard in the opposite direction. So that's what ends up happening. The reason why I like products like Magic Spoon and some of these other products now that are in our space is that not only they allow you to train yourself to move in that direction, but you're also getting something

that is hard to get with ultra-process foods, which is protein, which you're sacrificing a lot more typically with most ultra-process foods, because not only are you eating something, they're like, oh, I like the taste, but also I didn't get my protein targets. So now there's a double whammy, but with a bowl of magic spoon,

I'm getting that taste. Oh, and by the way, I got 35 grams of like way protein, you know, in that bowl or whatever. Yeah, I think to the, we'll just to address like the magic spoon. I think that it's a great place to meet people where they're at. I think that like, as coaches and as, you know, fitness people and like, we're always trying to kind of influence people around us and our friends people, and we're always trying to influence people around us and our friends and family and whatnot. And it's like, instead of putting so much emphasis

on healthy options and steering them closer towards making these whole food choices and all these things we would love to see, it's like, let's add some protein in your diet. And see. It's like, you know, let's start, like, let's add some protein in your diet. And like, you're already eating like, you're having a bowl of cereal loops and, you know, like, tricks and whatever, you know, like, I know what you're into, you know, and like, just give it a try. It's like, it's sort of that, that first kind of introduction. And then you just hope that like,'s because like the proteins levels are coming

up. It's like now, you know, maybe there's going to be behavioral shift as a result of this, like they might start craving more protein, they're diet. You mitigate it. Yeah, this is going to be like a snowball effect to that. So I think that's one benefit to obviously for me, it's like it's great to have in the house because of what we're talking about before is like, you know, there's times where I was a little more extreme of like, oh, I've been so restrictive on myself and then I'll go grab, you know, some Reese's or I'll do something that's like,

oh, you know, I'm feeling like I got a sweet tooth right now and I want to go a little hard with that. But over the years, like, I've gotten a lot better with that in terms of like, my mentality completely shift from, I should be doing this and really being conscious of making sure my body fat and I'm not getting too crazy and having these swings. I'm just really more seeking nutrients. I'm trying to seek things in my diet that I feel like are benefiting my health and I start trying actively to get foods that I know are fulfilling and nourishing to me

versus like, you know, I shouldn't be eating this. Like I took a lot of the air out of it. Like a lot of the air out of like, oh, this is a treat, whatever, I'll just take a bite. It doesn't, I don't even give a shit. Like it's like, I had a lot of the air out of it. Like a lot of the air out of like, oh, is this a treat, whatever, I'll just take a bite. It doesn't, I don't even give a shit. Like it's like, I had a cookie. I don't understand why we talk about that. Who gives you shit the head of cookie?

You know, like just keep at it. You do this with work, people do this with workouts too. It's like, oh, if I can't go workout, like max effort, hard, hip, yards, I'm not gonna go to the gym, it's a waste of time. Not true. Totally not true. That was one of the biggest hacks on the workouts for me

and as I got older was giving myself the freedom to, hey, I could go to the gym and just squat for three sets and walk away and it still be positive, moving in the right direction and it's not a waste of time at all just because I didn't get a crazy sweat or maybe it doesn't like make me super sore the right direction. And it's not a waste of time at all, just because I didn't get a crazy sweat or maybe it doesn't like make me super sore the next day. And I don't know how many times, I mean, shit that happened to me the last night, last night,

or yesterday I trained later in the day. I hate training after five o'clock. Like it just, I was tired from yesterday and I get a good night's rest. Especially it was exhausting too. We were stuck in here for, yeah. Yeah, hours. We ripped three episodes in here and inside.

It was, so I was like, but I also know that I'm getting ready to drive up to Truckee, then I have a flight to and back from Park City. So in the next five to seven days, there's a very, it's very likely I'm going to miss the gym anywhere between one and three days minimum in that next five to seven days span. So even though I've been super consistent and I could have taken last night off, I'm like, you know what, I need to just get in there

and do some work. And so I had to have this like self, like, I'm just gonna go there and do a couple things. We'll realize, do touch, touch, touch. And then I'm having a great workout. So I know how many times that has happened where I say I'm gonna do that and then it ends up being a great workout.

You know what, you know, speaking of food and desserts and all these things we're talking about right now, you know what I had last night? And I'll share the YouTube channels, so if you're watching this on YouTube, maybe the boys will post a video where I stole this from or whatever, but Katrina made me last night, cottage cheese ice cream.

Huh? Right? Sounds freaking weird. So I'll try and go off, because I didn't make it she made it but I've ever recalled the the right it was a tub of cottage cheese Just regular no flavor with that a Quarter cup of honey to sweeten it two tablespoons of peanut butter and then some chocolate chips sprinkled in it

And then what did you do and then you whip it and then you put it in the freezer for four hours and it comes out like what do you whip it with just spoon? Okay, just whip it up with spoon and then it comes out like literally the same texture as ice cream really yeah it was really good really and it packed I gotta do the macros cheese is a lot of people I mean this one what's old school bodybuilding food? Yeah, that is a high protein cheap if you can have dairy That's like a great lady a great, great protein. Is that, I don't know if that's the same recipe as I, I don't know, but it became popular on TikTok. So, but yeah, I found it on like a TikTok thing,

and I'm like, yeah, see, it looks just like that. Like crazy? That's clotted cheese. Yes, that's actually, that might be the recipe, Doug. Look at the, tell me what it is. Hey, by the way, did you guys know that in pictures, you know, they sometimes, they make pictures look good because they use other foods?

That's it. You know what they use for ice cream sometimes? Mash potatoes. Oh, really? Yeah, because it doesn't melt. So, yeah, look at it. Look at the texture on that. Like, hmm.

That's the, I think that's the exact recipe I use right there. Wow. Yeah, I think it is. Let me find the recipe here. That was just that. So, okay, so after I did it, I thought you just freeze it for a while. So okay, so I, uh, we over froze it. Like she put it in, she made it for me yesterday and I had it late

at night. So what I did notice about it, and the recipe calls for like a four hour free. So if you time it right, it'll be like that perfect texture. It gets harder than ice cream. Oh, I see. So I was eating it last night. It was like a lot of work. Thank you, it's been a lot of fun. But it was actually, I mean, she was like, oh, no, she was like, we shouldn't have done that long and it was ruined. I'm like, you know, it's actually was nice. Like I ate it slow and enjoyed it.

Like it was, I didn't mind it being all hard. But if you want to time it, if you want that perfect texture to be just like that, but it's so good. And then I'm going gonna now experiment with, so I'm gonna replace the chocolate chips and the peanut butter, and I'm gonna do graham crackers and strawberries, because caught is cheese frozen,

tastes like cream cheese a little bit like cream, like so I'm thinking like a strawberry cheesecake type of flavor would be even better than the peanut butter chocolate. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm gonna try this out. Oh, and it's a high protein ball. Super easy to make.

Back when I used to do that, I had very, I was caught at cheese all the time. I used to always eat cottage cheese. It's such a hack. That's a cheap, super high-end protein, easy. I used to just like get the, they make, they sell ones that have like pineapple in it and I would just sit and eat a whole thing for.

Dude, look at the mac, especially if you're looking for, if you want to bulk at the whole fat version, you're done. It's a meal. Yeah, so this was like a cool little replacement for my ice cream and also packed full of protein. Dude, speaking of like, we just mentioned yesterday how tired I, being in here, so for people, so just to kind of paint the context,

from 9 a.m. till 3 p.m. we were in here recording episodes. And this is kind of like an amplified version of what people probably experience in the office, in a normal office. And it's amplified because it's darker and there's more electric lights. Right, so there's like a spotlight on our faces. It's super dark for the show.

And poor ventilation. Yeah, and you know, kind of like we got the soundproofing or whatever. And we were in here from 9am to 3pm pretty much on stop. Yeah, it's not stopped like talking. Bro, how did you guys feel afterwards? Exhausted as hell. And then I went and jumped on the NCI call. And I was like trying to muster up all the energy I could.

But thankfully it went pretty well. But it's a I was tired. to muster up all the energy I could, but thankfully it went pretty well, but it's a weird exhaustion. It's like obviously you can get physically exhausted, which doesn't feel bad. This felt mentally fried and unhealthy. Like I went outside and I had to go right away to go pick up my kid, and I opened the sunroof to try and get some sun and some air.

Yeah. And I was like, this is terrible try and get some sun and some air. Yeah. And I was like, this is terrible. But now this is obviously, like I said, this is an amplified version, but I could see why working in an office every day, not seeing the sun, electric lights, computer screen. Oh my God. I mean, that is...

It's like cubicle, that's like death to me. Well, you know what it does to the normal person? It's going to make you feel depressed and anxious. Yeah, I mean, it's going to make you feel depressed and anxious. Yeah, I mean, it's going to make you feel that way. 100% fire before the rise of depression. That's it. Anxiety, 80% all that stuff. I mean, 100% it can get a little bit more.

It's crazy. So I was, who's I talking to you? I was talking to somebody yesterday about, you know, kids and the rise of an anxiety depression. I'm like, yeah, it totally mirrors the fact that they're outside less, socializing less, getting less sun and more on their screens. And what's weird to me is that people aren't making

as big of a deal about this connection. They're trying to complain to it on all these other things. I go, it's social media, it's just in that. Dude, if you took a dog, you took a dog and you locked it in a room most of the time with no sunlight or whatever, that dog would start acting crazy. Everybody knows this. Well, anybody who's like, like, humans are in a room most of the time with no sunlight or whatever. That dog would start acting crazy. Everybody knows this. Well, anybody who has kids, I mean, I've seen it plenty of times.

It's very clear to me when Max gets up and no TV, no iPad, no nothing, gets outside pretty early and plays outside for a couple hours. It like his behavior, his attitude, his ability to fall right to sleep. Like it's not a different. It's really, really, it's very obvious to me. So I think we just get in these, a lot of people get in these rhythms of utilizing

a lot of these tools to kind to babysit and then we're inside a lot and they just have it made that. It's kind of like people who think that everything's okay and they feel good but they've never actually felt great. They don't have a reference point. I think some parents just don't have a reference point and I challenge anybody who's never made that cautious effort to like, hey, I'm going to make sure I don't let my son or child have any sort of screen time, and I'm going to make an active effort to get them outside and be active and physical and play for a whole day,

and then pay attention to their behavior. It's, to me, it's really obvious. So, you know, it's a good example of that. You ever watch those videos? They're actually kind of hard to watch because they make you emotional sometimes. You ever watch those videos, they're actually kind of hard to watch because they're making emotional sometime. You're watching those videos, that new technology, they have those glasses now where for people who are colorblind, they can put them on and all of a sudden see like normal. Have you seen those videos? No, but I've seen the ones for hearing. Okay, so it always make me all like, oh, well because they do it on kids and it just messes me up.

Oh, I can't do that. I saw one, it was an old guy. He was like in his 50s. So his whole life has been colorblind. So he has no reference point, right? Just like you're saying. No reference point, doesn't nobody's missing. And his kids, his older kids,

for his birthday got on these glasses. And so you're looking at a 50-septom-year-old man. He looks like a kind of like a staunch kind of crusty old guy or whatever, put some on. And then he can't talk. And he's just looking around. And they're like, that, that, that, whatever. And then you start trying. He had no idea what it was like.

And I wonder how many people have no idea how shitty they feel because and it's funny you look at schools. A lot I guarantee you look at schools and boy did we lose a lot of wisdom in schools. Schools used to place an emphasis on two things that we completely removed, physicality, so like the PPE exercise getting outside and music. And both we know for a fact contribute strongly to mental health, which took them out.

Did you see the, did you see the Jordan Peterson clip yesterday that he posted? Oh, oh, it's so funny. I thought, man, it's funny. Did you see the, did you see the Jordan Peterson clip yesterday that he posted? Oh, oh, it's so funny. I thought, man, it's like, did you see it was done with that? Yeah, and he was actually in particular, he was talking about maybe Doug could pull up or not.

He's in particular, he's talking about boys in school and challenge, just not structure. And then he actually went through personality types. So like if you're an extrovert, you know, and social and forgotten creative. Like he went through like the personality types and how much the school structure is conflicts with that. He probably get the traits that we all have.

No, 100%. Then you can't help but you hear that. And then you wonder why these, why kids, some kids struggle like that. Yeah, this is right here. Can you turn it up? up can we listen say yeah, it's a huge disconnect yeah designed to Sit still and be bored of their skulls for seven hours a day There are boys with particular temperaments who are even less inclined

To be able to do that So for example if you're extroverted, highly social, possessed by a fair bit of enthusiasm and positive emotion, then you're going to appear more hyperactive. If you're creative, then your attention is going to be fragmented in some sense by the multiplicity of your interest. So if you're creative and extroverted, then you have both of those working against you in terms of your

cohesent adaptation to the school environment. If you're disagreeable, which is also more likely if you're male, then you're quite likely to push back against what you do is stupid arbitrary rules. And so we know perfectly well, for example, that attention deficit disorder overlaps with childhood conduct disorder and anti-social behavior. And I'm not saying that all children diagnosed with hyperactivity are conduct disorder. I'm saying that more aggressive boys tend to manifest symptoms that sometimes tilt them towards juvenile criminality and sometimes tilt them towards attention deficit disorder

and hyperactivity, but it's partly their somewhat rebellious temperament. And so if you're disagreeable and extroverted and creative, well, then why wouldn't you be hyperactive? Well, so Jim, yeah, pause that for a second. I messed up, dude. He like listed everything. Yeah, every attribute.

I'm like, right? He's talking to me, bro. Going in the school. Yeah. That's messed up. I mean, it's hard to listen to because as he was going down every attribute. I'm like, Ryan, you're talking to me, bro. Going in the school, yeah. That's messed up. I mean, it's hard to listen to because as he was going down the list, I'm like, it explains why that's a common theme between all of us. Right.

Well, so I feel like our betray rules. I feel like your two options, if that's you, and you're in that situation, your two options are either, like you said, criminality or entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship to some extent is rebelliousness. You are rebelling against, I'm not working for somebody, I'm gonna do my own thing. So all of us, for the most part, didn't do criminality,

Adam kinda a little bit. He kinda combined both, he went in the suits. Most of us, he just put his feet in the water, and he didn't go flex. Kind of combined both. He went most of us. He just put a feet in the water. And I mean, he can go flex. He didn't go full criminal. Yes. I mean, is it technically breaking? Or is it technically criminal if I don't,

if I didn't get caught? No, no, it didn't happen actually. That's right. It was all alleged. This is the allegedly allegedly. Allegedly. Boy, that was fucking hard to watch, dude. Oh, man.

That's suck. It's the truth though. So I mean, I really feel like we got it with all this AI talk that we've been having and how fast everything is moving and how much it's disrupting all these spaces. God, we cannot be far from disrupting education. Because we already know the trend

that's happening with homeschooling. Home schooling has been exploding and it's growth. I would make the case that the reason why a lot of parents don't do it is probably somewhere to why I'm afraid to do it is because, man, I don't know if I have the time to dedicate to make sure he gets a really good education and I don't want to fall short there. Most of it is you just don't know what it looks like. You're right, right? And so but I mean As these AI tools start coming out. I mean, it's we're probably not far from

Really simplifying that process to have support on how to how to steer and control some like that We're also working full-time. We're doing something. So I will say this today There's way more resources that help you organize what that would look like, homeschooling wise than there used to be. So there are places you could go, I don't know any of the top of my head, but where they'll help you organize it and it's got some, there's some with more structure, some with less structure, there's hybrid options and you can meet up with other kids that are actually doing it together. Yeah, there's a lot better, I think, solutions for that now than there was before.

It used to just be like, you're just completely isolated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they got a passie-stass, everything. Well, I can't. I'm just, okay, I think that we're close to. I don't know how long this TEDx has been around for. It's only been around for maybe a decade, a decade and a half, would you say? Sounds a bit...

I would guess so. I mean, and that has to be growing, right? The amount of that, like, once I get to a point where damn near every subject has, and what's, what's so special about TEDx talks is you get somebody who is passionate about the subject, who is also a great speaker and teacher teaching it, or else it doesn't go viral. It goes viral if it was something that we cut all the fat out.

Yes, literally just presented it as like this punctual. Yeah, imagine going through school, take yourself back to our high school years and subjects that you were just like, this, you know, whatever history or whatever that you were going through social studies and you're just like, I'm not interested. And then you actually had a TEDx talk about like that, that particular subject, someone

super passionate about it. Yeah. Then you're a boring teacher who's been reading out of the textbook for you. Oh God. I just can't imagine how much more. You know I literally had it so much fat. I literally had a history teacher who said that. Show what it's what he's to do.

He's to show up to class. We'd all sit down. We'd all pull out our textbook, and then we'd go down the row and read a page of the book. This was every day. I wanted to rip my eyeballs out of my head every day. Yeah, I was like, this is, and then I remember thinking, like you're doing time, it felt like you're literally

in a penitentiary, like just doing time. I'm listening to nonsense. I remember being like, how's he getting paid for doing this? Anybody could, I could do this right now. Exactly. He's just stupid. There's one online course that started, I think it was on YouTube a while ago

that now has been adopted by schools. It's a math course. Can't remember the name of it. Is it Kumon? Is that the one? I've heard of that one. There's Kumon, that's Japanese. That's Japanese.

Those are those schools that are all over it. Maybe not. There was one that was the sky.. Those are those schools that are all over it. Maybe not. There was one that was the guy who was teaching math. Con? Con Academy. Yeah, yeah. He started online and parents would use it to teach their kids because kids were learning math so effectively and now schools will stream it into their classrooms because he did

such a damn effective job. Right. Don't you see that kind of start happening more and more, like people disrupting with that, people putting out creating content so effective that kids are learning at a faster rate or retain more. It has to change. Yeah, it absolutely has to change. And I think it's going to re-suiter then.

I don't remember what we said earlier, I remember we've talked about this before and predicted in like the next decade or whatever. I mean, it's gonna have a fast. Well, I mean, even, I mean Jordan Peterson's working on his academy where he's bringing in these like professors and people like that, you know, have really done a masterful job

of condensing their content and information. And it's like, you know, for, for like a fraction of the price you go to college, you're getting like a way better education. And it's like, you know, I don't know, I see like a lot of trends going in that direction with like being able to, you know, I don't know, I see like a lot of trends going in that direction with like being able to, you know, reduce, because that's another humongous thing.

It's like, you know, you got to spend like thousands and thousands of dollars to just get through the whole bureaucracy of the whole thing. The whole system is ready to break. It's so close to break. And speaking of technology, I can't believe what you said yesterday. Oh, did you see that? I can't believe that it's happening now.

And AI created song. I was tripping on this. And AI created song went viral. They've released a whole album of it now and they can't stop it. A whole album? Yes, of them. Wow.

And that's why they're freaking out. They're trying to. And people are doing it just never, remember when Napster hit, you're doing it anonymously so they can't stop it. So it's not like you'll prosecute one person. They're just putting it out there and people, and then it's so good.

Everybody is sharing it and it's the toothpaste. You know what, two, the cats have the best. Okay, so you gotta say it was Drake. And it was Drake in the weekend. But it wasn't really them. But okay, they used their voice though. It was literally their voice is singing it. It generated their voices and created a completely

brand new original song. And the song was good. It went viral. Yeah, that's why it went viral. Because okay, it's one thing that, okay, we've already seen the AI technology that can replicate someone's voice. It's been cheesy, you know for the last I don't know I guess maybe years been out right like the like people have been experimenting with trying to create songs Dude like one year already is it 60 minutes. This is like going everywhere right now

This is like the big talk is the like they're up in arms trying to figure out how are they going to stop this. They can't. And what are they going to do? They can't. Like they can't stop it. It's crazy. It's insane. I think the music labels, music labels are just going to you. They're going to okay, the artists are screwed. Yeah. Artists are screwed. A.I. Music labels are going to use AI to create music. And that's, you know, it's funny. The thought used to be that art would be untouchable by AI. Because art was this mysterious creative thing. But it's turning out that they can create. So I still believe in us humans. There's going to be a way. That's right. Look at the streaming. I don't believe art will ever die. I think art changes and what we think is beautiful or unique or whatever that is, it changes. So maybe, I mean, it sounds silly, but like creating the imperfections in a song or doing

things that haven't been done yet. Now, the challenge is going to be is every time that's done, then AI's, right afterwards, can replicate really quick. So I thought about this. But somebody's in the upper right. It's almost like patting your likeness, your voice, right? At some point, like, because if they're going to be able to then utilize what authentically sounds

like you, and at some point, they'll be able to kind of, well, we'll see if they will or not. But the thing is, is like, if people are using it on a platform, whatever that platform is, is gonna be like held responsible. So I thought of this. So they're not gonna be able to use people's voices. That'll be easy to regulate.

If you use our voice, then you have to pay us royalties. So they'll have their own voices. Now, what you're saying, Adam, I think there's gonna be value in music that people know as human created. Just like, you go by ceramics, right? You go by a place. You made this already, I don't disagree. Yeah, like you go theory that it's gonna be more

than a... Life will be a bit more than a... Organic versus... Yes, however, the mass consumption, it's as easy, like pop, look at pop music. Pop music is the most listened to music, it's garbage, it follows a freaking formula, but everybody consumes it.

So the masses are going to consume this processed music because it's going to hit all the buttons in your brain. And then there's going to be your cheap. Then there's going to be people on the ends where like, I like the, yeah, no, I like my coffee made with beans from here, slow drip through whatever. I know it's full. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying about all this about this yeah because I've already just like noticed my like patterns behaviors of what I've like Started consuming music wise, and it's like I'm more into like the garage, you know like noise like wow like like it's it's a little bit off Right there's error. There's like there's there's a human kind of

Distinction there right like it's not a formula, I guess is the point. That is a formula, the mistake you're making right now, is the thing. No, I know. They will create music that sounds like that. They'll figure it out. Well, I guess what I'm saying is that's been my natural tendency. Yeah.

And then I'm gonna be seeking bands like that in person. So really, what is it? Does it shape up to be, and I think you're on the right track of kind of what it look like, right? The masses will consume Starbucks Then they'll be the French people that refuse to go there because they don't like Starbucks burns all their beans And they want it done a strip to start away and so I do believe that But then what it will naturally do is drive the the price way way low

So are we gonna are we no longer gonna see the, the ballers, like, like, like, the Kanye, the billionaire type of rappers and musicians because the, the, the era of paying them and getting them them, making that kind of money for concerts and things like that. Well, that's why the, the industry's freaking out. It's, they aren't gonna get those boat loads coming in. It's gonna, it's decentralized and completely. Yeah. So, that, so that it's gonna become like, if you sing, it's purely because it's a passion. You love what you do and you can make somewhat of a living from it,

but you're not gonna get filthy rich. No, there's gonna be value and stuff that's made by humans by collectors and they'll be verified like, bro, this song was made by people. Here's the symbol that shows that it was a human created song and then they'll be value in that.

But that's not gonna be the mass-consum shit. The mass-consum shit is gonna be the, the, you know, perfectly created, hits all the fricking, you know, dopamine receptors, the brain, processed music. And they'll be able to create garage band sounding music and EDM and song. So you see Doug pulled up the article.

So it's universal music group is actually trying to stop, Spotify and other streaming services from putting out the AI stuff. Yeah, but how are they going to know? Well, not only that, but you know, if you're Spotify, I'd be like, FU because they're going to lose. They'll lose. So my brother and law and I were talking about this stuff just a couple days ago, and his son is, my nephew is in high school. And you know, the young generation, like they're, they're consuming their music now on like TikTok and Instagram. He was, we were listening, he goes to someone's Instagram page all day and it was all AI generated music.

Wow. And we just had it playing. It was all AI generated music and he was, his son was, that's like all the kids are listening to. So the, so the label, the music happening. The music labels have a lot of power they've been around for a long time like Hollywood they're very entrenched in the politics they'll be able to stop music that copies their artists voices and that can be able to stop original music original music original music their fun yeah but even that

sound though how i mean so you remember the big lawsuit with vanilla ice and um you know, when he, we done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done the same. So how how how are they going to distinguish whether they use similar sounding as Kanye or weekend, but then the pitch is just awful. They have those laws. So and those that's fine. But it's completely original. Take out Drake and the weekend's voice. That was a original song. I yeah, I know, but you had to understand part of what makes that go viral. It's because it is draking. It's a mashup with. Of that. For now. If it's well, for now.

So my, I mean, we're taking a bit for people to, but I think for an actual artist that's like AI generated to gain traction, it will happen. Like I'm not denying that. I think that again, the established artist right now is like, that's why it's viral. Look, it's like, so where's the line though? Is what, okay, so where is it? Where they just tweak it enough that it's no longer weak in Coneya, but it's close enough that viral. Look, it's like, so where's the line though? Is what, okay, so where is it? Where they just tweak it enough that it's no longer weakened in Kanye,

but it's close enough that you think it is. So like I said, those laws already exist. Like, okay, they're already on the book. So what is it? You said that, but what does that mean? Like, so many bars, they already have laws like that. Like, where, if an artist samples

of other artists, yeah, there's already laws that protect that. So, AI can't create a song that breaks those particular laws. And it's not gonna have to. It's gonna create original music, and it's gonna go viral, because kids are on these streaming platforms. I'm like, oh, this is a cool song. This is cool, share it, share it, share it.

And all these artists are gonna be screwed, especially because of music. So what I see, so I see having happening, and we see this already. I'm telling you, this could be a political push they've already human made human made shit They've already got this come in there's already a I generated characters on Instagram that have millions of followers They'll take somebody so they'll take someone like that and they will put they will give him his own original voice Because he has a following already and a network. Sure.

And then that is the way you can. They've been building him up right now. Yeah, it's just another thing to tack on. And you can also make that character what the hell you want. Yeah. I mean, we'll speak in a bit. You're the core man. Yeah.

See the song. There was this, like, so I follow this page, the science page. I think it's science-free or I forget what it is. But it had this cool video where the sky was playing a trumpet and he was playing it through this tube. And in the tube, like there was these holes at the top and it had like this gas kind of like fire propelled, like so basically like these flames would come out of the tube. And as he played it it you could like physically see

The sound waves affect the actual waves of the flames and so as the notes change you see that like frequency Change in real time. I was showing my son the before I was putting it. Okay, so that's an example Why I think really cool team human still wins in this art department because that is something that AI wouldn't have generated. You wouldn't even know how to prompt it to get that and a human will do it first. And if you thought if we can find ways that you protect that that anything that get copies that afterwards you get some sort of royalty you still will be could possibly become rich for the original creative idea of creating something like that. That's how it's gonna have to be. Otherwise, how physical...

Doug, the physicality of it, right? And I think that's where we have to start looking is like, how can we perform, you know, the art in person's, and then I think there's gonna be a lot more drug. Well, listen, this okay, I wasn't gonna bring this up on the podcast because whatever, fuck it, we share everything on here Because this has been on my mind a lot especially after that article that I shared with you guys last night I mean if you guys don't think that our shit's gonna be copied within the next year. You're fucking crazy Oh, yeah, I mean there's nothing that if they can take the weekend in Kanye and write a good song like that What makes you not think they can make a just Justin Adam and Sal podcast that mirrors and creates similar content that's doing that.

So what is gonna keep people still coming back to us or still coming into our ecosystem and helping this business still survive? Because people are, they want to not allow the robot uprising that's gonna kill us all, that's why. So they're gonna support us with it. That, hey, listen, literally, literally, because a year ago, AI could not generate viral music.

That was within one year, okay? So the only way any humans are gonna work in this type of environment, besides those people that own and create this AI machines or whatever these devices are going to be because consumers are going to choose real humans. That's it. Because they will be a la copious. The technology will get to the point where it'll be a better me. I'll be listening to the podcast again. Are we do you think we're loyal by nature? Do you think that as the majority, as a majority, do you think we're truly loyal like that?

A segment for sure. Oh, I'm cool. Well, we did do you think we'd be taken by the masses? Yeah, no. No, I mean, so I lost all hope for that. Not the masses. I think there's certain people in media that have done so much for me, for example,

that I would choose them because, but the majority of shit I consume, like I don't care, oh, this guy's product is better than yours, I'll go in that direction. But there's always that, that there's gonna be some of that loyalty. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that I was gonna bring up

off-air with you guys is that I think it just highlights the importance of us doing more of what we just did a week ago, right, of in-person events because what AI cannot replace is that reaction. I don't think they ever will be able to raise the human connection and touch and feel of me. There's no way a machine is going to be able to stand in and have that conversation like we had and people get that response from us. It will at some point.

It will be able to create it and, you know, it takes. As soon as it can wash dishes. It will do. It will do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't believe that, Sal. I don't think you can replicate that. You're talking about things that we can't even fully explain, still. We know that everything around us is energies. We know that when two people stand for totally, there's all kinds of stuff that's being transferred, surrounded around us, and you think that a robot is going to be able to simulate that? I don't. All it has to do is trick you. But until we get to, before we get to that point, I think it'll get something else will happen. I think it'll get way weirder than that, you know, we have indistinguishable, you know, robots from humans. I mean, we already, we, there's already, there's already stuff to show that there's a difference between us communicating over Zoom versus us communicating in person. Yeah. Okay. So that's more real. Okay. Zoom with me is more real than a robot

standing right in front of you talking to you. So what makes you think that we're gonna be able to make that leap, if we haven't even made that leap, is a real human on through zoom. You're not, we haven't been able to transfer that energy like that. It's gonna be a long time, this is a part, but you know what I was just thinking,

like because there's a lot of those, like, underlying cues of like even like on a biochemical level, right? So if they're blasting you with oxytocin as you're giving them a hug or something, they're trying to trick you into liking you. Well, that's his point. Is that there's gonna be like, we can get sprayed in the face of the oxytocin.

Yeah, I think it's all data. At some point, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's disagree with that, you know? But there's gonna be something about that, the real human connection that there will be a desire for. I think those movies, you know, like the body snatchers, like, wait, is that really Justin?

You gotta ask a question. Yeah. You know, that only Justin would know. I would have a deal. I don't know, that's gonna be funny. I wasn't gonna ask you Justin about your North Korean jacket. What's up with that?

That's right, the cute accompanist. Come on, man. That's what my baby. I'm still gonna rock at me. It's one of my favorite movies I can't help it. Every time you rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude.

I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude.

I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude.

I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. I'm still gonna rock it, dude. of being uprising. Yeah, we're one of our other sponsors, we're supposed to talk about Caldera. And you know what's, so I've been diving deep into, not super deep, but somewhat deep into like skincare products and stuff like that because I was never a skincare guy. Obviously we worked with Caldera Lab.

Didn't want to work with them, so like what? Skincare stuff, we don't care. Started using it, like this stuff is legit. You know what the difference is between their approach and almost every other company's approach? Every other company tries to strip your skin of what it naturally has and possesses and then replaces it with something synthetic.

Caldera does not do that. Caldera's products are there to help enhance what your skin naturally produces and balances it out. That's why it's so different. That's why, you know what that sounds like, kind of like adapt to gins versus like pharmaceuticals. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally, and this is true. Like Justin and I couldn't have more different skin.

We're both very, very different. He's on that spectrum, I'm over here. I'm oily, he's dry. We use the same Caldara oil and it makes it look, it makes it good. Why is that funny? I don't know. Sounds perverted. Very dry. It makes me dry. I think about this conversation. I didn't say wet. It's an oil. Oh my god. You picked me a piece of my hair, Doug. He's tan, I'm definitely not.

Yeah. Let's go down the list. Let's sing a song together, Justin. Okay. Anyway, all right, so towards the end here, I'm gonna bring this up, because I'm not bringing this up in the beginning, because this was a crazy, the craziest experience

I think I've ever had in my entire life. Whoa. I swear to God. Like that? Aside from like having my kids be born and stuff like that, I did EMDR last night for the first time. That is like a techno dance race. Yeah, that's it.

That was with Molly. That was just fucking right. You should have seen me pumping my face. It's pretty awesome. You don't explain to the audience what it is. So, it's like psychedelically, when we talk about it. No, dude, it's so, it sounds silly, but it's crazy, so it's called, it stands for eye movement,

desensitization and reprocessing. It's a psychotherapy treatment, and it was designed to alleviate this distress associated with traumatic memory. So they started doing this towards the like early 90s. Is it like, is it based off of like neuro-lingistics? No, no. No, no.

So, okay, so here's essentially what I experience, because I'm not an expert in this, so I'm gonna tell you what I experience. stuff like neuro-lingistics? No. No. No. Okay. So here's essentially what I experience, because I'm not an expert in this, so I'm going to tell you what I experience. So you hold these two buzzers. Okay. They're like little things that will vibrate, and they'll vibrate at particular speeds. And you'll close in your hand. Just that.

And you'll close your hands, your hands in your eyes, and the person you're working with will walk you through different thoughts and experiences that you've had or whatever, and there's usually a direction or sometimes no direction. So with me, there was no direction. She's like, the person I'm working with, she's like, first we did this like exercise where I learned how to relax and how to become tense.

So I guess I was developing the ability to create that contrast and that feeling. And while I'm holding these buzzers, by the way, and one's going off on my right, and then the other one goes off on my left, my eyes were closed, and when we go off on my right, my eyes would move in a particular time. Oh, you can feel your eyeball.

My eyes would want to move. And so on like, this is fucking weird. Like what is going on? So I did that first, then she's like, okay, like do you want to go with something specific or do you want to do like just see is going on? So I did that first, then she's like, okay, like do you wanna go with something specific or do you wanna do like just see what comes up? I'm like, let's just, I don't know, let's see what comes up. So she's like, all right, ask yourself,

and I am, this is like the short version. Ask yourself if there's any part of you that wants to say anything to you. So I'm like, okay, so I'm doing this thing. Do you speak it out loud or you just, in your head, in your head, in your head, can't? So then, so she doesn't hear anything from me. No, and then we'll do this for a minute with the, with the buzzers or whatever.

And then she'll ask me, okay, what did you see? And then I'll go into it for a second. She'll be like, okay, think of that. And then she does it again. And so it's like this repeated cycle. Here's what's fucking weird about it. So I had, and I'm not going to go into detail because I'll probably get emotional in the pot. It was really weird, right? I had a thought and then each successive thought I

Would have never thought would have been connected to the first one, but it went deeper and deeper and deeper and these and I wasn't trying to bring Shit up. It was just coming up coming up coming up. Did you? Okay, so when it's happening it wasn't like I was like, oh this is where coming up, coming up, coming up. Did you, okay, so when it's happening, it wasn't like I was like, oh, this is where I'm gonna go. Okay, so when you're tapping, you have no, you're just like random thought, random thought. Think about what you just thought about. Random thought, random thought.

Think about what you just thought about. Think about what you just thought about. Think about what does that have that make you feel? Where did you feel it in your body? Okay, feel that. Okay, now what did you think about? What came up for you? What did that look like?

How do you feel about that? All right, go into that. Just peeling back layers of the onion. Bro, I was like, it was like a chain that was connected. Once you're at the end of the chain, you see how it's all connected. But I went down, down, down, down to my childhood. And I had a feeling that I had not felt since I was a kid.

Like, and now logically, here's the crazy part. You could ask me, and again, I'm not gonna get specific because it's right now it's a little too fresh and personal, but if you ask me, Hey, Sal, tell me about this experience. I could tell you logically, oh yeah, when I was a kid. This happened a minute, man. No problem. Not the same.

I felt it. Like you felt it. I felt almost like you were in that moment. I felt the feeling of that I had when I was a kid. You were able to not forever, right? Like, you could acknowledge it, but now you were in that moment. I felt the feeling of that I had when I was kid. You were able to not forever, right? Like, you could acknowledge it, but now you have to feel it. Yeah, dude.

And so I was like, when I went into it, because I knew what I was getting into, and my tendency, I think like a lot of people, especially men, is you're gonna feel something that makes you feel a way you don't want. For me, it's like, I don't like to be vulnerable, right? So, if I feel like I'm gonna be vulnerable, very easily shut it off, which is beat,

it's not gonna happen. In fact, it happens on its own. Sometimes I'll feel like, oh, something's coming up and it goes away. You're kinda doing that right now. I'm doing it right now, right? So, because I'm on camera, I'm just gonna- I mean, just be really, I'm gonna say that's,

I'm really, I'm gonna say that. And I have a great ability to do that. You guys just see me do that before. So, but I told myself, and she's like, okay, go into that, go into that. So I'm going into it, going into it, going into it, and then it just fucking start coming up. And I'm like, am I gonna cry in front of this fucking? And dude, it was.

It just come out. Or really? You do it. Weird, bro. I felt feelings. I hadn't felt since I was a kid. And it was fucking weird, so weird. And after we were done, you know, the whole thing, I sat there and I was fucking weird. It was so weird and after we were done,

you know, the whole thing, I sat there and I looked at it and I'm like, you fucking made me cry. And she started laughing. And she's like, oh no, that's, you know, and so what happens essentially is, apparently the physical sensation, it's like this bilateral stimulation of the brain and it takes, you create this pattern in your brain. Again, I'm not an expert, so I'm probably explaining it wrong, but you create this pattern in your brain.

Again, I'm not an expert, so I'm probably explaining it wrong, but you create this pattern in your brain that protects you from a particular feeling for whatever reason. And you can't get through the processing because you've now created this pattern. So it's like you cut yourself and then you put a block in between the cut. You're skin ain't going to heal. That's just the way it is now. The only way you'll heal is if you take the block out and then now you feel the wound.

I suppose it, yeah. And then shit starts to heal. So what it does is allows that rewiring to happen. So then what happened is I felt this feeling and it was very real. And then I started to understand it, but here's the weird part. So I don't know if this will make sense

without me explaining what happened, but I'll try. I could explain it to myself as adult-sale. So I could look back and be like, you know, so and so was trying their best, they were stressed, they were, you know, whatever. So I could explain it to myself, but now I could understand it as the kid. So now is the kid experiencing what's happening. Now I experience it with that understanding.

Fucking weird. So how were you able to connect? So how, okay, because of that, and because you had blocked that for so long, and you would, and in any other time you had thought about it, you'd only thought about it from a logical, adult perspective. How were you able to make the connection that this is me feeling as a kid? You know what I'm saying?

Like how do you recognize it? You did. Oh, you recognize it. It felt like that, like, oh, go. Oh, there it is. I felt this before. Bro, there it is. That's weird.

It's very weird. I didn't even know it was there. Yeah, it's weird. I had no idea it was there, but when I felt it, it was there. And I was like, that's that feeling. Holy shit. And it was connected to all this other stuff.

So anyway. Wow. Yeah, it's really weird shit. So for everybody. Are you okay, so are you supposed to, now that you have that information, is there like homework for you to work on that, or is part of the just the process just getting in touch with that feeling it

Processing that was the work. Oh, so that's it. I mean that's literally it was just kind of connecting those You gotta let it come out you gotta roll it and then you're yeah, no, it's hard to like I'd be like I don't recognize all this so this kind of reminds me I've told the story before on the the podcast about the experience that Katrina and I had when one of the first times that I did Still a side been with her and it was only just it wasn't like a crazy dose it was a you know a little bit more than a micro dose and We had this and I and you just explain it as like scar block or like injury

I think of it like as a a neurological pathway that it's there So logically she could recall, yeah, I know how to feel about this. I know, and I know we don't agree. But there's a block there of actually being able to feel what I feel. And like when we did the psilocybin, it opened up that pathway for her

and for the first time ever, she saw me from my perspective on that thing that she could logically talk about for years in our relationship. But for the first time, she could logically talk about for years in our relationship, but for the first time, she could emotionally connect to how I felt like. Well, I'm sure. It seems very similar to... I don't know if it's...

Obviously, it's different. Yeah, but you know, the way it was explained to me, it's like, if you look at fresh snow, and then you make tracks in the snow, and then you keep making tracks in that same snow, that's the path now. And to go differently, you got to go through fresh snow and it's hard and slow and whatever. So it's allowing new paths away. Yeah, and it exists. Those pathways exist to protect. You're just hardwired to go the other way.

Yeah, and the way that you always travel. And by the way, if you do this, the person doing it has to be good and understand that they could go too far. Oh, I'm sure, right? They could go too far because your body's protecting you for a reason. So like she told me she's like, you're probably gonna feel emotional and weird

for the next few days. How exhausted were you afterwards? Did you feel emotionally exhausted? Oh, I came home, dude. I couldn't even look at my kids cause I was gonna break down. Oh my God. Oh my God, wow. Took a shower for an hour. Yeah, it was it was really strange

But she said look if you feel like excessively unstable and emotional, I want you to call me She tells me how when she first experienced it because before she became you know did this she was a patient years ago And she said the person who did it Wasn't as well versed as she is, pushed her too hard. She's like, I was fucked up for two weeks afterwards. So it's like, and you're saying like psychedelics, I'm sure it's the same thing. Right, someone could hit a dose and go to hard.

Too many pathways, too much at once. Oh fuck, now I'm even more traumatized. Right, right, right. But it's very strange, man. It's really weird. No, I don't, there's, and the crazy part is I had no idea that that wasn't happened. So it's not like I'm like,

oh yeah, we're gonna work on that. Yeah, like you didn't have a goal to attack that. Now, and it was something that I thought I dealt with. That's the crazy part. Do you remember the last time even logically you thought about it? Yeah, I mean, I could talk about it all day long. And I've talked about it a hundred times. It's that I never, I didn't feel it.

I probably didn't feel that feeling since I was eight. I mean, I totally can get that. I mean, there's things that I can logically share about my childhood that it doesn't make me emotional to talk about. That's right. And it's like, but and a lot of that probably is because I can't quite put myself in the way I felt.

You can't access it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously there's there's there's was traumatic things that had happened that I have no problem talking about to your point of like I can lodge and I can even I can even logically justify it from my parents. Totally. And saying, wow, you know, they were young and this is why I was so surprising. Right, right.

And so, but if you made me actually tap into the feelings when I felt like in that moment when it happened to me, well, I remember me actually tap into the feelings when I felt like in that moment when it happened to me Well, I remember how distraught and traumatized I was like crying and how I had a control I was in so I imagined that wouldn't feel good. No I said I said that's not cool. I don't like the way it feels All right, let's do it. I'm pretty drug, but I gotta fucking do it man You gotta do it if you want to be my motivator is look here's the thing. I'm motivated to be the best father I can be so so do okay, so I know I'm, my motivator is, look, here's the thing, I'm motivated to be the best father I can be, so.

So, okay, so I'm doing my best to not pry too much, but also asking to. Sorry, we'll edit it out. Good questions about this, because I'm very curious to like, okay, so now you receive this, or you connect to this feeling, and obviously you have to be processing something of like, what is this for, like, why is it important to me today with my life now?

Do you already feel like there's things that either you're going to look at differently or that you're going to do differently because you now were able to connect that you had this thing. Yes, but here's the thing. It's not like, oh, okay, I can see what's like. It was, it's there.

It's literally like, God, I don't know. It's like you had anesthesia in your right arm. Yeah. So it's completely numb. Okay. Take the anesthesia off. I can feel it now. Oh, there's my arm.

And you don't need to like think about what to do with it or whatever. I know exactly what's going to happen. It's going to take me a second to get back to normal probably a couple of days, but it's not like, oh, I need to sit down and have a plan. That's how that's how wide how wild it is. Like, literally, if you look at the research on this, it like in many cases will take, now it's not perfect for everybody. If you're like, have like crazy disassociative disorder,

it's gonna be really hard for you to do this. But it replaces like years of cycle therapy because it puts you there. That's it. And then you rewire it and then... It does sound very similar to like a good therapeutic still-as-I've been type of trip. You know what I'm saying as far as kind of connecting.

You know what I'm saying? It's funny, my fear going into something like that, cause I knew it, I'm like, okay, I've read about this and I was gonna be kind of whatever. I'm like, I don't wanna fucking cry. I mean, literally, it's always my thing. I don't like crying for somebody. Like, that's a big thing. Like, that's just, I don't wanna do that.

It's a man thing, though. It is, you know, especially a friend of a woman, you know, you feel like, oh, God, I don't wanna do that. What prompted you to do it in the first place? Was there a particular goal you had or did somebody recommend it? Well, it was recommended, but, you know, I really want to be just a good parent, you know, and you can't do that without becoming a better person, just the bottom line. So challenges come up with your kids, And you know what, you end up,

here's what happens, is that you pass on, and this became very obvious to me, you know, last night, you pass on your challenges without realizing it. So you could talk and act and think you acted in a particular way, but your kids pick up on the subtle shit. Of course. That you were not aware of, which is exactly what I did

when I was a kid. So that's the part that really became super obvious to me. Oh, so to me that answers what I asked you then, because that's exactly what I meant by that is like, so you became more aware of how you received something even though it wasn't communicated. So now you're probably more aware of some of your actions and behaviors around your kids, even if it's not necessary.

Just around anybody. Yeah, yeah. It's getting more perspective. It's weird. So, okay, so you're going, I mean, what has it to do? How often? How often do we expect you to be so dumb? I don't know if I can do this.

Maybe we could spread this out maybe every couple of weeks. I'm fine, I'll go right. I think after. Yeah, okay. I think, I don't know, it depends on what's happening, you know, at home because it'll, it'll knock me out a little bit for a day or two. So it depends how we're doing with baby and the kids

and all that stuff because I, you know, there's gonna be times when I need to be more, like available and I can't just be like, oh, I'm gonna sit over here and be weird for good. Now, afterwards, are you also processing this with Jessica and sharing with her? Okay, you are. So it's not like just a you.

No, no, I talked to her about it afterwards. Okay, so she knows all of it. Yeah, pretty crazy stuff. Let's shout out Jordan Peterson. If we haven't done that before, is the guy's got great content, communicates, except I think it's one of the greatest thought leaders of our time. I agree.

So it's Jordan B. Jordan.b Peterson. Jordan.b. Peterson's how you'll find them. Is that right? Correct. Hey, what's happening? There's a new product called Sleep Breakthrough that has been shown to improve the quality of sleep and help you get to sleep faster.

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Use the code mind pump 10 for a discount. All right, back to the show. First question is from jokes and pokes. I cannot do a pull up for the life of me. What could I do to substitute the pull ups in maps and a ball like? Oh, you could definitely regress pull ups and then progress to be able to do a full pull up.

Get a band assistant. Yeah, you can do a band around the bar, where you stretch it down, and put your knee or your foot in it. It'll help lift you. If that's too challenging, you could do body rows. This is where you angle your body, so you're pulling your body to the bar,

and you can make that more or less challenging. You could also stand on something so that you're at the top of the pull up, take your feet off whatever you're standing on, of the pullup, take your feet off, whatever you're standing on, and just do an isometric hold. And then slowly a stronger there. Negative, a real slow negative, where you just release really slow. Yeah, I like, yeah, with the suspension trainer is really good for that in scaling the intensity of what you're talking about with the body weight row, just because, you know, like that's, you want to get to a point where

you're you're really stressing the intensity of that and you get stronger, so then when you go up to your upright position, you'll be able to do that. I mean, you can get bands that will, unless you're like, I don't know, even if you were over 300 pounds, I'm sure there's bands that are like that thick, they make bands that are super strong. And you could use two if you needed to. So I've had clients that couldn't even come close to using doing one pull-up and then we used a real thick

band and they put their knees in it and then they can do seven of them. And so you just start with something like that. I really like that because I feel like it's the closest thing to the... It's a pull-up. Yeah, your movement pedal. Yeah, you're just taking your body weight off of it. So it's just like... If you're practicing it that way, you're long. And then you're just taking your body weight off of it. So it's just like you're practicing it that way. Yeah. And then you get really good at that. But everything we all mentioned are all ways to regress it so you could do something right now. Justin would probably argue that's the best way a Smith machine was ever used to was. It's one value. It's actually, did you guys see like they they've reinvented it

a bit and to where you can actually have like an attachment in the cage where it slides. So the American bar. I saw something somebody said that to me. That's been around for a while. The American barbell gym has had that for you, you were there when it was there. I don't think so. Oh, you must have just left it because they've actually had that over by the squat racks for a long time. It's not just the bar that moves up and down, but it's still is a little relevant. And it's still a little clunky. Like, I mean, I can't admit that I've never tried to squat on it, but it still doesn't feel the same as it.

Of course not. Oh, yeah. That's never a good replacement. Yeah, so, I mean, but better though. Right. The way I used to do it with clients is I would go body rows. We'd get really good at those.

Then we would make the body rows more challenging. Then I'd have them stand up towards the bar, hold an isometric hold, and then we would eventually get better at that. Then I'd have them come down a little bit, see if they could hold that position for a little while. Then we come down a little bit, hold that, and this is over the course of weeks.

And then I'd have them jump up into a pull-up and then lower them self-slowly, and then little by little we would progress to be able to do a full pull-up. Next question is from MFS Wellness. What are some effective strategies to help clients find the right balance of enjoying their food and tracking their calories and macros, but not being so meticulous that it drives them to give up on themselves? Yeah, you know, for most people, Yeah, you know for most people You can go pretty far

By doing two two simple things so you don't have to track everything but by doing two simple things Eating or trying to eat mostly whole foods and in hitting your protein targets if you do those two things Most people could go get to the point where they can get to a pretty healthy body fat percentage. Now, if you want to get lean. Yeah, if you want to get shredded, then you probably gonna have to start getting a little bit more specific with your tracking, where you're tracking carbs, fats, and total calories. But literally, that's it.

Those two things right there, and so what you do with the protein is just prioritize it. So you don't tell yourself you can't have whatever you enjoy having. You just say, before I have all these other foods, I'm going to hit my 150 grams of protein or my 130 grams of protein. And that typically takes care of everything else because protein is so, uh, satiety producing that it's hard to overeat when you do that and when you do that first. So that's it. Those two things right there will handle most of it.

Yeah, I guess this really depends on the conversation that I'm having with my client. And because sometimes you have a client there is just like that, that they're frustrated and they don't like tracking and they want to enjoy their food. But then they also want to look a certain way. And their body isn't changing the way they would like. And it's like, well, you know, at some point, if you really,

like if you don't care, like if you don't really care about the scale, you don't really care about this, this, this visual you're chasing, and you just want to be a healthy person. I can absolutely teach you how to enjoy foods, you know, not track, exercise appropriately and make pretty good choices, but still enjoy the occasional whatever, and be healthy. But if you're trying to make moves, you're trying to lose 35, 50 pounds,

you're trying to have abs, you're trying to build 10 pounds of muscle. You have these specific aesthetic-like goals, and then you've never tracked to get somewhat of awareness around what you're doing. It's a losing battle. Like you have to at least have some sort of grasp of what you're doing or not doing well. And I think that the most important part about tracking is the educational piece of making

people aware of their habits and their behaviors. And if they're completely missing protein target, you're point about prioritizing protein. Well, that's great. I can have you prioritize protein, but if you're grossly under eating it, but you still make it a priority to eat it first, like, I mean, you're better off than if you didn't do it, but then that could be a reason why we're not building muscle that we're trying to do right now is because

you're under eating like crazy, and we're training more than enough for what you're doing. So the not tracking thing to me for a client and then also trying to make aesthetic goals is a really tough one. Being healthy and balanced, different story. Yeah, but to be more clear, hitting protein targets and prioritizing it are both the things that I suggest. So take your body weight or your target body weight if you're really overweight and Hit that and grams of protein and then eat that first and for the most part eat whole natural foods and what probably have let's say you lose 50 pounds Okay

You'll probably lose 30 pounds just doing that just doing that You'll slowly lose 30 pounds now you'll you'll get stuck with your last 20 to 15 pounds and then you'll have to track a little more, but here's a deal. If you did what I said, you lost that first 30, now you're gonna be ready to get a little bit more specific with your tracking. The challenges with people, they start and they're like, I'm tracking everything and planning,

everything, it's just too much. It's just too much all at once. So, that's why I said for the average person, if you just start there, then you get pretty damn fine. I mean, I like, they're still tracking, right? They have the track protein. But I like that piece of advice.

And to take that further, one of the things I used to say to clients, like that, that, this, again, trying, they want to enjoy things. So maybe you have a Friday night, you go with your wife, and what you have your favorite steak place, and there's a, you know, a Pizzouki dessert and there's like a, you know, wine that you wanna have and these things are nice, things that you have

and it's on Friday night. I would say, hey, yeah, enjoy yourself. But what I want you to try and do is before you get to dinner or including the dinner steak that you're gonna have, make sure you hit your approach you'll take. And then on top of that, you can enjoy these foods. That, to me, I think is a really good strategy. What ends up happening many times is people don't hit their protein intake and then they replace it with these calories. Then you're really going backwards.

So if you tell the client like this and just hit that protein intake and then even on those nights, when you want to enjoy this food, this dessert, this night out with your wife, just make sure you at least do that first. And then I guess the next step to that is also be mindful of how much is this paying you back. I think a one-on-one date with your wife that you probably don't get all the time is a very valuable time to enjoy yourself and have those things. I think every night watching you know, watching television,

having a six pack of beer is not, at some point you have to become aware of your patterns and behaviors that you're doing and is it really serving you? And in a situation where you're going to dinner with your wife and you're having a glass of wine and dessert, that is serving you, serving you and your wife, your partnership, your relationship

and that time, you having six beers Monday through Thursday every night is not serving you, so you have to also become aware of that. I definitely like the simplicity of what you guys are suggesting for the beginning to focus on. The only thing I would add is trying really hard not to get any calories from liquids or anything in that regard. That just covers the basis of where the calories come in from the sugars and everything else that they're intake.

And then, so where does that also lead them into hydrating themselves more with water? Yeah. And by the way, speaking of awareness, here's what you may find when you're hitting your protein targets. You may find that you're in that protein targets, you may find that you're in that situation where you wanna eat that dessert, you're like, I still have to eat 40 grams of protein and you'll say to yourself, I don't wanna eat that protein

because I wanna eat that dessert because you'll become aware of how effective that protein is at making it not wanna eat anything else. That's right. So it is a very effective behavior awareness tool and again, so be aware of that. When you're hitting these targets, you may actually find yourself saying, I'm not craving that though. I want to eat this other thing over here. That's a great time to be like, all right, what's

going on here? Next question is from Pete Kendrick one. How would you recommend a completely decondition 40 year old start their fitness journey when all they've done for the past 20 years is walk. Oh super Basic strength training like one or two Exercises and maps 15s. Map 15 would be perfect for someone like this map starter Perfect those are two programs which would be great for someone like this But strength training produces results which would be great for someone like this. But strength training produces results

because it's a stress on the body and your body adapts to it. And if you're doing nothing of it, doesn't take much to get the little... Little goes a long way, especially with somebody like this. Yeah, and more doesn't get the ball rolling faster. I wanna make sure I'm clear here. So just the right amount.

And if you're deconditioned, literally five... Well anyway, you're back. Yep,, literally five, money will flow back. Yeah, totally. In this case, I talked to this on the show recently, and we're talking about somebody who's deconditioned for what, 20 years, right? 20 years, super decondition, but I actually still apply this philosophy to myself.

If I've been very inconsistent for just say weeks or maybe a couple of months, when I come back, it's amazing how little I have to do to already elicit change. It's like your body quickly adapts one way than the other way. And if you haven't been doing anything for six months even, like when you come back, the mistake that most people make is throwing the whole kitchen sink at their body and nutritionally all at once, where all I wanna do is I wanna assess all of my behaviors around exercise and food. And I wanna pick one, maybe two little things

that I can start to do to move in the right direction to start to build winds and build momentum. And I always start with things that I know are very easy. I don't wanna go, like, oh, I'm gonna start with the real hard thing first, like, no. I wanna start with the thing that's like so easy for me to either cut out or add into my life. And again, build some momentum, because even that one little change,

just simply, okay, I have this bad, you know, drinking soda habit, and I haven't lifted any exercise. Literally doing an X1 exercise body weight, whoever said that, a day, and cutting out those sodas, like dude, your body for the next couple of weeks will start to change because of that. It's the whole thing. Like if I were to go back and teach my old trainer self,

it would be to get my clients to do every single day. Yeah. Something they can do every single day to really build on that momentum. Cause it's not like, okay, I have them two, three times a week, and then what can I squeeze in there to teach them these exercises that are gonna benefit them? And, yeah, I'm kind of teetering on that line of too much,

not too much, but it's still not as effective of doing last, but doing it more often, and that's why I really love the maps. Yeah, when I got good at this, I would get decondition clients or older clients. At the end of our first few sessions, it says, that's all I'm going to do. I'd be like, you know, that's perfect.

When they come back and they're stronger. I got stronger. I didn't even get super sore. What's the deal? That was the right dose. That's the right dose. Next question is from Pia Roblae's fit. How do you calculate the volume of compound exercises

when you have to write a program? For example, when you program dips, do you count it as volume for the triceps or chest or both? All right. Well, more specifically with dips is a way you could do them for triceps, a way you could do them for chest, but you're going to work triceps when you do them for chest to some extent and you're going to work theiceps when you do them for chest to some extent and you're gonna work the chest when you do them for triceps to some extent That being said though you can really make that all or not all but mostly chest or mostly tricep Right, but my point is if you're doing it and if your form is doing it for chest Which you know to be more specific you're leaning forward more elbows out there or squeezing in the chest, or if you're doing over triceps, more upright, more elbow, flexion, extension,

squeezing in the triceps, you count the volume for the body part you're trying to work. So bench press, that's shoulders, triceps, and chest. Where do I count it for chest? Barbell row, biceps, and back. Where do I count the volume? For back. So there is crossover, But this is why compound

excerpts. So someone may be thinking like, well, that doesn't make any sense. I'm working all these other body parts. Okay. This is why compound lift volume counts as more than isolation exercise volume. Ten sets of isolation exercise volume does not require the same amount of recovery. 10 sets of squats. 10 sets of compound lift volume. So it's not an equal, you know, one-to-one when it comes to counting volume. This is where, this is one place where programming experience comes into play.

I can look at a workout and if I know the person, I can look at two different workouts, even if they have the exact same sets, I can say this one's going to require more recovery than this one, so we got to bring this volume down. Be based simply on the exercises. Some just simply tax the body more than others. And your challenge with these compound lifts is really that, is that dips for the triceps is going to count as more volume than rope press downs for the triceps more demanding.

So, probably of all of us, I probably tracked the volume probably the most, or most consistently, I would make the case, right? With all my competing shit. I treated actually very similar to a body fat percentage. People get so hung up on what is the machine say, or this is more accurate than this or like what time it's like whatever you do be consistent with it and

really it's about where you move from there. So like again I always say start do the least amount possible to list most change. So I start with my programming the most basic I can with the least amount of volume that I think I need to get going in the right direction. And then as I decide to build or add volume over time, I do it incrementally from that starting point. So that starting point, it doesn't matter if I'm 12% body fat, 7% body fat, the machine said 6%, it doesn't matter what I'm looking for is how my body is responding and the mood,

then how is it to where you're trending? Yeah, where I'm trending from there. That's how I, like I don't get really hung up on well technically that exercise works this and this it's like okay Here's my total squat volume. Here's my total arm volume. Here's it. Okay. I have a good idea of that And I'm gonna calculate it all the same so if I calculated the first time as Squats count to this category and this counts to this category Then that's how I'm going to track it going forward. And so how you add volume or take away from there,

it's really about where your base is at and this also reminds me of people who ask about like, do you weigh your food before you cook it or after you cook it? It doesn't matter. Does it mean you start weighing it? Yeah, wherever you decide to start and fake to figure out your maintenance,

then just be consistent with that and build off it. Getting so hung up on the difference of chicken cooked versus chicken not cooked and how that affects the protein weight. It's like, dude, you guys are getting way, I took this to the most extreme level without ever having to do any of that stuff. But the way I did it was saying that this is my base volume

that I'm doing, and then as I am progressing through this training program, I'm gonna slowly incrementally add volume until I start to see potential adverse. Like, oh, now I'm starting to reach, which ended up happening after over a year of doing this with competing. Like I started to reach, which ended up happening after over a year of doing this with competing. Like, I started to reach a point where I kept adding so much volume that now that the

achy joints were happening. I was starting to hit plateaus. I was starting to see my strength go back and then I knew like, oh, it's time to scale back the other direction. So really, it's about, however you decide to calculate it, you just calculate it consistently because it's really how you respond. The big problem with, because this is not something you shouldn't pay attention to, but just don't get hung

up on it like Adam's saying because here's the big issue. If everything else was exactly the same all the time, right? Your life was identical every day, your hormones were identical every day, your sleep was identical every day, your food was identical every day, it was the same weather outside, every experience was identical. If everything It was the same weather outside. Every experience had was identical.

If everything was exactly the same all the time, then it would be just as easy as volume and changing volume and change. But other stuff changes as well. And then that's gonna affect the amount of volume you can do and how the workouts affect your body. So it's never as simple as just numbers. People really screw up when they get hung up on numbers,

because they'll look at the numbers and they'll ignore everything else. I'm like, well, I'm supposed to add volume now. Oh yeah, no, well, this says this much volume. This says that much volume. Therefore, this one's gonna produce better results. It's not like that. You know where I saw the most value in tracking volume,

very similar to the same value that I found in tracking macros is becoming aware of your own patterns. So when I first started tracking volume, I didn't go, just like I do with diet. I don't go like, oh, here's my diet, I'm gonna fall out. Here's my program, I'm like, let's see, this is how I'm training. Let me just kind of track what I naturally do.

And what I found was we all have these kind of tendencies to what, to your point you're making right now, so where if you're not really tracking volume, you tend to do certain stuff where like, man, when you're really feeling motivated, you naturally add volume. And then, oh, then you go through a rough week, you're frustrated, you're gonna fight with your wife, miss a day, you volume dips down. And then what I noticed was, oh shit, over the course of these three months, I didn't really progressively overload. I ended up just doing this. I didn't like slowly add volume over time.

And I knew that when I needed to progress for show over show over show, I needed to do that. I needed to show over time I came to stage. I built more muscle. I was a bigger, better version of myself before. And so really, it wasn't a perfect linear climb though. It was trending. Yes.

The trend is the important thing to pay attention. Yeah, but what I found when you don't, people do this and they don't, they don't, they don't trend in any direction. Yeah, they don't trend in any direction. They kind of, they're in the same, they're in the same spot three months later. And in that time, they had weeks or days of higher volume, but then they also had a lower volume and then they end up being in the same spot. So really when I was tracking volume, the thing that I was most concerned about was staying

consistent with, okay, if I've agreed, this is the amount of volume I'm going to train in, I can't go backwards. I'm not going to let myself have a bad day or a low day would be this at least getting to that volume. Then I'd slowly try and progress progress it week over, week or whatever. Excellent. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to MindPumpFree.com and check out all of our guides. We have fitness guides that can help you with exercise, muscle building, fat loss, and nutrition.

You can also find all of us on Instagram. So Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps for performance, and maps aesthetic.

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