Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2075: The New Science of Living Longer & Better With Dr. Rand McClain

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak to Dr. McClain about the most recent longevity and health science. Taking control of your health. (1:41) Longevity vs. health span. (3:53) The three pillars that impact your biological age. (11:35) NO diet fits all. (14:22) How he eats for maximal performance. (20:03) Using exercise as the great equalizer. (25:47) The importance of sleep hygiene. (31:06) The effect of metformin on your health and longevity. (44:30) How can hormone therapy impact your performance and health span? (52:45) At what age should you investigate hormone therapy? (1:02:17) Peptides for health and longevity. (1:08:03) How gene editing will revolutionize life span. (1:15:56) The future for stem cell therapy. (1:21:31) Advancements towards early detection of diseases and cancers. (1:24:51) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit PRx Performance for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Cheating Death: The New Science of Living Longer and Better – Book by Dr. Rand McClain The Art of Resilience: Strategies for an Unbreakable Mind and Body – Book by Ross Edgley Mind Pump #2060: Maximize Fat Loss With Continuous Glucose Monitors: Kara Collier Let’s Eat Right to Keep Fit – Book by Adelle Davis The Resistance Training Revolution – Book by Sal Di Stefano Testosterone for Life: Recharge Your Vitality, Sex Drive, Muscle Mass, and Overall Health – Book by Abraham Morgentaler Testosterone Therapy and Cardiovascular Risk: Advances and Controversies How To Increase Sensitivity And Density Of The Androgen Receptors? Mind Pump #1900: The Truth About Peptides With Dr. Rand McClain Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Ross Edgley (@rossedgley) Instagram Peter Attia (@peterattiamd) Instagram The Sleep Doctor (@thesleepdoctor) Twitter Matt Walker (@drmattwalker) Instagram Dr. Abraham Morgentaler  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode is awesome. We have Dr. Rand McClain on the show. He's one of our favorite people when it comes to hormone health, peptide use, and just

longevity in general. In fact, he wrote a book called Cheating Death. And in today's episode, we talk all about that book. So he talks about things that actually live you longer, but also have you living better, supplements, compounds, the way you live, exercise diet. We covered all in today's episode. By the way, this episode is brought to you by one of our sponsors, PRX Performance.

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You can also pay monthly, so it's like a gym membership, but it's your home gym. Go check them out. Go to prxperformance.com forward slash mine pump and on that link, you'll get 5% discount. We're also running a sale this month on some correctional exercise pain relieving programs. Maps prime, maps prime pro and the prime bundle

that combines them and takes 30% off. You can take an additional 50% off, all of those. So they're all an additional 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitinistproducts.com and then use the code May 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. Dr. Rand, welcome back to the show. Always great having you on.

You're definitely one of our favorite, if not absolute favorite people to talk to when it comes to hormones, longevity, health. We respect the hell idea and you wrote a book and we want you to talk about this book because it's pretty awesome. The title of it's awesome. I want to get your attention. The title of it's awesome. I don't know your tension.

It gets your tension cheating death. So who's this book written for? Why do you write this book? And then we can kind of get into some of the stuff that you've learned and the research that you cite and talk about in the book. First question I haven't really answered yet before, but who's a written for?

It's written for anyone who wants to take control of their health. So the message of the book is really letting people know what's out there so that you can take advantage of your health. I use the example of myself in the book in that, you know, medicine was advancing so quickly that when I had some of my medical challenges, for example with the spine and they offered me really the option between a fusion and what amounted to kind of an advanced door hinge as a replacement for the disc. I said, no way, man, I'm not doing it.

And 33 years later, I had a pretty serious result from not doing anything about it. And in between there, if I had paid more attention and known how quickly we were advancing, I would have had a lot more opportunities to fix it and be better off than I am today. I'm not complaining where I am today, but I had other options that I had no idea about.

So the idea of the book is to let people know that there are so many options for increasing health span we call it, right? Not just longevity, but the quality of life while we're living. And so the purposes spread the word in that regard. And then obviously as part of that, give people the sense that, well, first of all,

you should be your own best advocate for your health, but that you have the ability to control it. And there's some ideas in the book as to how you can do it, not just theoretically, but some practical information there too. I hope that people take advantage of. Yeah, so you're obviously a medical doctor and you've been doing this for a little while. And it seems to me, I have a lot of friends in the field.

I have a lot of clients that were doctors. And I noticed that especially more recently, maybe over the last two, maybe two and a half decades, where Western medicine, which gets a lot, they get a lot of heat, but a lot of credit for this. They do a good job of treating symptoms, not a lot of, not a great job of looking at kind of chronic issues or looking at things like longevity or quality of life necessarily. Seems like we're starting to see advancements in that space where it's like, okay, yeah, we have these great ways to kind of make you feel better right now, but there seems to be a lot of research going into now longevity or health span.

First, how do we define the two? What do you mean by longevity versus health span? Because you said those two as they have to be. Well, health span combines the idea of longevity with quality of life. No one wants to go into their older age spiralingaling down the proverbial toilet, just hanging in there to last moment. We want to do what we used to call squaring the curve so that you're going long like you did in your 20s or roughly thereabouts, and then somewhere in your hundreds, you die in

your sleep if you're lucky, right? But still going strong. And that's doable to date. We're looking at old news where you see the, you know, your best time, let's say, is here when you're 20 and then it creeps up a little bit until you get to 70. And then hockey sticks, but I think that's moving, I think if you looked at data today,

it'd probably be closer to 85. And you see the examples in the press now where people are doing some pretty amazing stuff, whether it's on the gymnast bar of some sort or on the track. So again, the idea is to, well, I hopefully defined Hellspan, right? So. It's not just being alive, it's actually being able to be functional and pendent. Yeah, and being able to function and enjoy life. I've never met a patient who says, yeah, let me trade one for the other in terms of longevity

for quality of life. It's usually the other way around. They'll come in and ask him, hey, what do you got? I'll take 10 off the backhand if you can give me three more before I go. No, and that's the beauty of this is, and I try and make it clear in the book. It's definitely not a rob Peter to pay a policy at your age, and it's really one is advancing the other. Certainly, if you're in better health You're expected to live longer right if you don't have

Uncontrolled type two diabetes not only will your life be better, but it should last longer too So that's pretty exciting. I mean from from I think anyone in this room standpoint How how valuable or how accurate I should say do you think the the test are that give us our you know Biological and chronicle age are those pretty accurate or is that a pre-plan question? Well, I'm a lot of people are working on that. I've got an app which is up in its first iteration that gives people based on the you know the Inhance Database that we have which is pretty huge.

Anyway, correlation between some of these markers and biological age, what are estimated is biological age, is always gonna be an estimate until many, many generations because we gotta live through those to be able to verify the data, right? But we're doing a pretty good job. It's certainly at advanced levels,

at an advanced level of things like DNA methylation. That comes up pretty accurately to measure chronological age. And then, of course, we associate the two. And we can come up with a biological-age estimate. Telemere length probably comes in second place. Depending upon how you measure it, something called HQ fish, is I think the only way it's worth measuring if you're trying to get a decent estimate of biological age, but the point being, we can come up with it,

and even if we're not accurate, the idea, especially with what you guys are doing, think about what we're all trying to do. If I'm 60, and it says I'm 62, but then we can implement an exercise program that rashes things up and knowing what we know about, you know, down regulating imptour and up regulating autophagy. If we can measure again in six months to a year and go, hey, now it says you're 61. I don't care so much about the ages. I do, hey, I'm doing the right things and I'm moving the right direction. This is how we explain people, explain to people not to get so hung up on some of these tools or let's say a body fat measurement readings where they're like, oh, I heard that's

off by 4% or this one's better than that one. It's like, none of it really matters that much. It's like, what matters is that you have a baseline that tells you this is your body fat percentage and then the things that you put into place, did you go up, did you go down? And so I think the same thing would probably be true with this. It's like getting that reading, so you at least have an idea that,

okay, I'm now gonna go out and implement these new behaviors or supplementation or exercise regimen. And then I'm gonna come back and retest and say six months a year and hopefully I'm intrinding in the right direction. And if I'm not, I probably need to correct something. And think about what a great motivator that is. I mean, it's not to say that people don't trust you or us in what we're saying or grandma,

eat plenty of colors on your plate when you eat. Like, it's now beyond trust. It's happening. I can measure it. And it just leads to, I'm telling you guys with charting, all right, compliance. They see it happening. They're much more likely to follow through rather than just go, yeah, well, he told me so again, even if it's subconscious, people are coming to you for advice. They trust you to begin with, but this really drives it home, right? Yeah. I think like a simplistic way for me, look at is when I go to like a reunion and you

notice like everybody there's the same age, but you can see like a drastic difference, especially over the years, how their health has diminished on one end versus like people that are really like humming right now in terms of the quality of life and you know, hitting all those markers. But now to have something to sort of quantify that, I think that's interesting for people to look into that further and like how we can kind of base that off of like some of those markers

that you're mentioning and so to test that. Yeah, it's like we all know that person who's 70, who's like, man, they're like, it's like they're 50, like they look like they're 50, they move like they're 50, and then we all know that 50 year old, they're like, oh, it's like they're 90 years old, they can barely function. So it's really biological age is like how young your body is on a cellular level, essentially, right? To find it loosely, how well things are working and moving versus just on the calendar, how old you are, right? Would you say that? Yeah, and arguably it's for everybody,

but for the person you're talking about, who's 70 but working like he or she's 50, it's added motivation. If you think about it, do I need a biological age to motivate somebody like that? Or if I'm that person, if you're 70 but moving like you're 50, it's the functional day to day

that makes all the difference to you. So do I need a number? But for those people arguably yes, because it gives them that much more drive. They're already doing well, but for someone who, I don't wanna say might be more likely to take advantage of it, but for someone who's obviously doing it right to begin with,

if they're trying to squeeze that last percentage out, that gives them even more feedback, I guess. Well, too, and the person that maybe is a little bit more on the less able bodied, like less healthy versions, is they're always out there trying to ask them what they're doing, like what are you doing? How are you so vibrant, how are you so healthy? And to be able to then kind of go in and test

and figure out ways that they can improve their health and their quality of their health and like sort of reduce that biological number I guess down would be you know something I could see people wanting to get into. Now as a fitness professional I'm going to make a couple assumptions and I'd love your input. I would assume that the most impactful things on chronological, excuse me, biological age have to do with like exercise, diet and sleep. Those are the most important ones. Yeah, and we go back to your question about the purpose behind the book and what's in there. We've all heard that forever, right? Those three pillars are huge and you can throw in, maybe lifestyle stress or whatever. Yeah, and part of that is, you know, what humans, so bonding and interaction

with people and relationships. And that gets kind of woo-woo, but not so much anymore if you look at the research. So it's clear. Yeah, it's true. So you can throw that in as a fourth pillar for sure. But we've all heard the other three forever. And it gets kind of old to,

I mean, you see your clients out there, right? My patients, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. What else you got? Talk to me about peptide. Kind of pill, what kind of other thing? What's the cool latest? Well, the purpose of the book was to go into the research like there's plenty of with relationships and stuff.

But to show, look, sleep, it's not just what great grandma said, nutrition, ditto, and exercise ditto, let me explain some of the research or present it to you and explain it as much as you need to explain, to show you this not just you know, a legend, a myth, whatever you want to call it, it's real. And I think that makes it more interesting, particularly in the state and age with the people we're dealing with, that are much more interested in wanting, hey, I want to see, just like, hey, show me the research on the peptides. Okay, I want to see evidence, and it makes it easier to circle back, I've found and say, hey, before we start talking about fine tuning or sniping with the peptides, let's get

back to the basics because, you know, I remember seeing guys in my office with the cooler of food, the jug of distilled water, ran. I'm doing everything right, you know, but I can't get leaner. I can't put on more muscle and I'm like, okay, talk to me. We find out that, yeah, their exercise routine looks brilliant, they got that wired, they're carrying the nutrition with them, you know, they're eating every three hours,

and it looks pristine. What else? Well, I work for UPS and two other things, you know, and where I come from, we say, working like a Jamaican, you know, hard working. So it's a 16 hour day just with work and then they're getting four hour sleep. Hello, you know, and they're wondering because they don't understand the going, yeah, but

I've gotten away with this for years. That's probably something you guys see a lot of. So yeah, that can't be it. No, it is it. You go back to the basics and then you convince them and all of a sudden, boom, everything takes off. But that's simple. Now, those categories are broad, right?

I mean, we spent our entire career is talking about those categories. So what does the data say on nutrition? Let's get one. Because there's so many different ways. You can eat. There's so many different diets that are out there. This one's better than that one or whatever.

What is the data show with diet in terms of longevity or health span? What is it saying? The data shows you can't rely on the data. No, seriously, this is part of what I present in the book, and it's no new news to most guys that are out there doing, like you do. One of my favorites came out recently.

If you guys heard of this guy Ross Ejli, no, I have. Yeah, I have. So I ran in him just fairly recently, but I've already read two of his books because what I like about his approach as a doer, not just somebody standing here talking about it, is, like I swim around Britain.

Right. He climbed via rope, the height of Everest. So he's clearly a doer, right? There is no one diet that fits all, okay? And that's the point. there is no one diet that fits all, okay? And that's the point, most of the research that we see is epidemiological in nature, it's observational and retrospective.

For example, it's based on forms you fill out that Monom, seriously. I know, I know, I know, what have you eaten over the last year? Do you remember what you ate? I can't tell you what that was. I can't tell you what that was. I can't tell you what. I can, I know. What have you eaten over the last year? Yeah. Do you remember what you ate? I can't tell you that. Forget about the last Thursday, yesterday? Yeah, yesterday, right?

Not the week before, forget about it. So it creates a lot of problems and a lot of data that comes out false because it can be so easily manipulated with bias. I never did well at statistics because, well, long story. But it really does come down to that. And there's so many flaws that you wouldn't think about intuitively, but that come up when you look at the research. So I would say, and there's guys out here

out there that have studied this, one of my favorites, again, is Peter Atia. And then, Dr. Ioñitas, who really first spoke out and said, hey, guys, most of the info we have here is garbage. I think he's quoted us over 90%. So to answer your question, first of all, throw out the data. You can use some of the diets,

like we all, so many of them now, ketogenic diet, the carnivore diet, the Mediterranean diet, start with one as a basis to figure out what works for you, and tweak it as necessary. You may throw it completely out. Carnival word doesn't work for a lot of people. My wife would be one. I mean, she's one of those freaks in nature that lives on carbohydrates. I mean, she could probably survive and still perform well on twizzers from what I've seen, right?

I mean, she's a freaking nature. But that's to the point that you can't just say, okay, this is what works for everybody. Now, there are some that do have some decent science behind it, like the Mediterranean diet. And, God, I always forgot his name. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but there's a doctor out there that promotes it really well or his version of it. And we know that it lowers LDL and can help with people

that have extant coronary artery disease. Well, but that applies to certain individuals. It doesn't mean that everybody needs to be on that diet because everyone didn't have coronary art disease. Yeah, that's right. To back you up, I mean, in terms of what you're saying with the data, Dr. I think Ansel Keeze was his name came up with the Seven Nations Study

where we based our government nutritional advice that demonized that, right? So he took a bunch of data from all these countries, literally took out the three countries that didn't fit the data. And said, it's fat, right? Took the countries out that lived a long time, they ate a lot of fat. Classic, yeah. Classic, and it became like this anti-fat campaign.

Obviously, we got fat or in sicker, so it didn't help anybody. We noticed this trainer's in coaches that there's this huge individuality when it comes to diets. We're now seeing this with CGMs, right? Continual glucose monitors where I can eat a food that's low on the glycemic index

and get a crazy insulin, you know, glucose spike and someone else will get this wonderful glucose spike. I've seen people eat glucose spikes from foods that I don't even have sugars and carbohydrates that have some kind of immune response. So kind of back you up. That's absolutely true. Are there general truths so that you're seeing

like don't overeat, avoid. Don't eat large quantities of arsenic. Okay. I saw it. There's some obvious ones. I mean, they're also some ones that you go, man, I wouldn't think that's obvious or you, or rice versa.

You know, you really just have to experiment within reason to see what works best for you. And then you have to also throw in there what works for me while I'm training for endurance versus while I'm training for muscle mass or leaning out. Uh, if it's winter versus summer, if I'm on the equator and it sounds kind of esoteric, but it's true. No, very true. You know, you can eat the same when you're freezing your butt off in Chicago in the winter as you would in Ecuador, winter or summer. You know, so, and then you got it all figured out, right, for each individual, and then you age another couple years

and you go, okay, my body's not working the same anymore. So you really just have to go back to, okay, be your best advocate and observe, observe, observe. And be aware of all these factors that come in to play and maybe some that don't, you know, like whether I wear blue in the morning for my t-shirt, that I don't think that has any to do with my diet. So I'm just making the point that, you know,

you got to also exclude some of this stuff that a lot of people are touting as this is very, very important. Yeah. Not really. Dr. Rand, again, to back you up, people in cold traditional, freezing climates, if you look at the traditional diets, high in things like cod liver.

Yeah, maybe it's good. The anyways. Very hot fat. Vitamin D. You gotta get that vitamin D. Where they're not getting it from the sun, right? And people who live at the equator, the traditional diets are very different as well. So what you're saying is, I love that you're saying this.

I'd like to ask you then, personal will diet because you're super active. You do the strength training. You also do the lung endurance training. You also need to have a lot of cognitive performance obviously with your job and present yourself on podcasts and stuff. Does your diet vary between those?

Have you found for yourself that you eat, like to eat for maximum performance with stamina versus muscle mass versus cognitive performance or is it all generally the same for you? That's a tough one to answer because I Was blessed with a mom who got interested in nutrition very very early So I grew up on I wish you a con wheat germ pancakes

And we were allowed candy on Halloween. That was it. You know that kind of thing So I'm not sure if it was something I just got lucky and paid attention to early. One of the first books I ever read, I was 11 years old, meaning not mandatory, you know, Z. Jane run and all that kind of stuff. Was it an nutrition book? Adele Davis is one of her books and I was fascinated by the fact that you could you could affect yourself with nutrition. So I don't know if I glombed onto that or not, but I really just kind of go on gut as what I'm saying. So, did I purposely study it? Yeah, is that now sort of ingrained and I don't even think about it,

but to answer your question, not so technically, I eat whatever I want, but it's definitely based upon how I'm feeling. And typically, for example, I'll eat more vegetables and even start your carbs in the summer months where it's hot and I tend to burn more fuel just because it's hot. And whatever I'm doing, I'm going to be maybe burning more calories. You get argue what about the cold? Well, yeah, if I live in Chicago, again, nothing

against Chicagoans, I love it up there, but I don't. I live in Malibu, so I'm not dealing with super cold weather, so I don't have I live in Malibu. So I'm not dealing with super cold weather So I don't have to change my diet To compensate for the cold like some of Chicago and wood. So I'm not gonna be eating a lot of Calorie dense foods, but I will adjust. I'll be more protein depending on what I'm doing And you know you mentioned I so I'm Screwing up my training by doing both a lot of endurance with weight lifting training. And if you don't eat really carefully with that,

you're in trouble. So I listen and I go, okay, boy, I can just, I crave that steak, which is most times anyway, but you know, and I'll eat it. So, again, I'm giving you a long way to answer. That's not really good. But I think with enough time, if you do what we're talking about, where you pay attention to what you're eating

and what it does for you, you'll just get that sort of an innate sense of what's eating and when, and we all do that to some degree. When you're in the pink, right, meaning when you're in good shape, there's no question what your next meal is going to be. If you have any control, right, you don't look at that chocolate cake and go, wow, that looks great. You look at that and go, God, I'm gonna feel like crap in 30 minutes of a eat that, because you already feel good and you know that you're in tune with it, right? I know it sounds kind of woo-woo, but it...

We all sense that, right? No, what you're alluding to right now is the area that we're always trying to guide our clients to, which is becoming more aware of the natural signals that your body tells you. Unfortunately, I think most people are so disconnected that because we're so distracted and we're so out of our bodies that we don't.

But when you get to a place where you have practiced this, you've measured it, you've tried different things, and you start to piece together, oh wow, when I eat like this, I sleep really well. Oh wow, when I eat like this, my training session is really well. When you start to make those connections and you do it for long enough, like you have, it becomes intuitive. It comes to a point where it's like you say, you crave what you need and you don't deny that or you look at a

food like a chocolate cake and go, oh yeah, it smells good, it looks nice and with that. But I also know how that will make me feel. And as much as that sounds tempting right now to do that, I know how my body will react to it, so it's not worth it. So it's easier to pass on it when you've ordered that. I think the challenge that a lot of people have today is being in themselves, being connected to their body and actually paying attention to those things.

So to drive that point home, to go back to this fellow I was mentioned earlier, Ross, Edgley, I think he loves cheesecake, if I remember correctly. So he eats tons of cheesecake, but he's also swimming around Britain in five degree centigrade water, right? Yeah. Swimming 12 hours a day, demanding 10 to 15,000 calories a day. So that's not messing with him. So that cheesecake is actually going ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, dance calories. I need it. I don't need my alphapest sprouts and broccoli right now, right? It's a waste of my GI space.

So you can take that to the extreme, but it just, I think, drives your point home even further that it is all relative. You just have to pay attention. And there are studies talking about being in tune or not. When you're out of tune because of like allergies, no matter how hard you try sometimes, can throw you off. A lot of times, particularly food allergies, you will choose the food that you're allergic to over something you're not. And is that driven by the allergy or what happens as a result of the allergy, the change in

your gut microbiome or whatever, we're not sure yet. But all the more reason to stay on track and be in the pink so your body's working properly than when you get out of sync and you're making wrong choices because you're out of sync. There's two theories behind that, by the way. I just actually literally last week read about that. They think it's either A, you're more likely to develop an intolerance to foods that you repeatedly eat because maybe you have a damaged gut. So it's like, why am I attracted to this food? That's making me it's like, well, I've always been eating it. And because I have a damaged gut, my body's now developed an immune response to it. Then the other

theory was the cortisol spike, people get addicted to. It's like that stress, the stress junky. So they get that stress response. And for some reason it develops this kind of. Or even a histamine reaction, which will pump you up too. That's right, histamine will do that, absolutely. All right, so let's talk about exercise. What about the data on exercise and health span and longevity? Obviously being active is better and they're not being active, but when we get more of the specifics,

what does it say about strength training, cardiovascular or extreme exercise versus moderate exercise? what do you see in that regard? A lot in that question, but exercise is definitely key. The very definition of life includes the word movement, right? By just about any definition of life itself. So we know that movement's important exercise is important. It starts the process that I get into in much more detail in the book, whether it's with regard to MTORC, one or two complex, the Sirtuin genes, autophagy. So exercise what I call the great equalizer, because it can make up for a lot. For example, in med school, you know, you'd be pulling 36 hours at a time back in those

days you could. And before me, you know, it unlimited, how much they could push you. They put limits on that now, right? They won't overwork their students like they used to. Of course, I'm gonna say it this way because I did it before. It's kind of candy-ass now, but it really isn't. It's still not the way to do it.

Okay, really. It's counter to what we know in medicine is the proper way to do things and we still do it wrongly. But anyway, I'd still grab a workout because if nothing else, it helps with metabolic dysfunction. That's the linchpin for the four horsemen of disease these days, arguably. Again, I call it the great equalizer because it does so much for you when done properly. Now, you can overtrain in Hormesis curve comes into play.

Some people call it a J-curve where a little bit is good or not good. You know, medium out is great and too much is not good again. I think we tease it into different categories. Pretty much the research tends to point to you. You gotta do a little bit of zone two and below. Okay, the gardening, the stuff they talk about where you can talk to a friend comfortably. It's exactly what it says, right? And then you have to do some hit.

Zone five, high zone four, low or mid zone five, right, or maxed out. And the two of those are the combination you need because they both are different kinds, obviously, of exercise, they do different things for you. And then when it comes down to measurement again, we can correlate muscle strength and VO2 max with longevity and health span as well as muscle mass.

And of course you go, well, muscle mass. It's a proxy for strength, typically, right? I think it's more. And of course you go, muscle mass. It's a proxy for strength, typically, right? I think it's more than that because, you know, muscle, for example, I call it a metabolic liability. It's a sugar sink we can call it. It helps with that metabolic dysfunction. If you're carrying an extra muscle mass and you do go off and indulge in that chocolate cake, which by the way we should every once in a while for the other part of it, just the mental part, right? We should have gotten chocolate cakey which by the way, we should every once and while for the other part of it, just the mental part, right? We should have gotten chocolate cakey, brother.

We will after this good. Actually, I skipped it last night for some reason. I don't know what to give you. But maybe because I was waiting for it today, no. The, there are divisions that we can look to and whether you're above the antaroid with threshold or not, the contribute to your health in different ways. And so we need a little bit of both.

I would say arguably, if you were forced to choose between the two, which I hope no one is, that the long slow distance is gonna be considered more important, just getting around, even if it's just gardening or going for a walk. But if you can do the hit as well, I think the combination, the science bears out and who cares what I think. The science shows that you're going to be best off,

and it's going to hit those three. Mass, strength, and VO2 max. Yeah. When I did the research for my book, I was actually, I knew the benefits of exercise, but in particular, I wrote about strength training. And I was shocked at the impact that strength training and muscle mass had on blood glucose and insulin sensitivity. By itself, the most effective way of helping to modulate how your body uses insulin in glucose, which is a huge problem in modern societies. I mean, now they're finding Alzheimer's are starting to say, hey, maybe that type three diabetes theory is true that the brain is not able to utilize glucose properly.

Definitely comes into play the more we dig into Alzheimer's research or any neurological disorder. Absolutely. And you've got what, 100 million Americans, they estimate, have fatty liver now, whether it's diagnosed or not. So yeah, and I've, I've got him over 15 years ago, one of the first times I put two and two together. And I can tell he's on the internet, made his name is Jim Demetz. I remember he was on insulin. He was about 360, you know, six, three, six, four, three, 60 overweight, clearly. And in short, we put a bunch of muscle on him, got him off insulin, got him off all diabetic drugs whatsoever. He's a life coach now somewhere out there, spreading the word because of just what you're saying.

Just getting the muscle mass on, increasing insulin sensitivity, fasting insulin levels, dropping his blood glucose and he sees 100%. That's awesome. God bless him, wherever he is now. Now, okay, sleep, we're gonna touch all the pillars before we get into the stuff I know everybody wants to hear about, which is like supplements and peptides and all that stuff.

But we need to focus on this first. Yeah, thank you, thank you. All right, so sleep, what is the data say on sleep? And we all hear the whole seven to eight hours of night, and there needs to be a certain percentage in this REM stage of sleep or whatever. What is the data say in terms of health span and sleep? It's very easy for me to dish to the guys who are the experts, Dr. Bruce and Dr. Walker.

You know, one's called the sleep doctor. The other one is now he heads up Berkeley. We stole him from the UK and he's written a book, both Dr. Bruce and Dr. Walker have written extensively on sleep. But the science is extremely clear, seven to nine hours, by the way. Somewhere you fit in there unless you have, I think it's one of three very rare gene mutations that allows you to get away with like five because you can drop into deep sleep pretty well. But yeah, it's not just about deep sleep. You need your REM and you need your light sleep. And there are further divisions within those,

and how you control those is difficult. Some of it gets into a lot of different nuances, but the basics, as you can break it down in terms of like an wear or ring, I think is the best proven, the best in terms of the ability to pick up as closely as you could with an EEG More the gold standard of you know determining what levels of sleep you're in But yeah, if you're not getting seven and nine and that's gonna vary too by the way again like the diet depending upon

What time a year how hard you're training? So maybe your average is seven and a half but but there may be nights where you're going, I need eight, even eight and a half, and you may need seven and seven and a half, and you might need the full nine every night, right? So finding that where that is for you, and of course where you are in your stage of life, you know, and just because you can,

doesn't mean you should. I'm so glad you said that. I mean, we all did that, right? All of us in here were, probably everyone in this room, right? Yeah, we could, you could get away with, right? I remember as a young trainer at thinking sleep was like, whatever, then I got older and I worked

with these functional medicine practitioners that hear them talk about sleep. And I had to see the results in their clients. And at least that, my ego wasn't big enough to, so big that I didn't, you know, absorb other information, right? So I remember one of the first clients that I addressed this with, and all we did was work on her sleep,

and she lost seven pounds. Nothing else, she did nothing else, but now of course that affects everything else, right? Her eating probably changed her activity, but just working on her sleep, seven pounds of body fat was gone, and from then on I was totally sold. How about muscle?

Does she gain some muscle too? Oh yeah, she gained muscle and strength. And I would argue that contributes to it, right? 100%, 100%. So it's a huge, huge deal. How about muscle? Does she gain some muscle too? Oh yeah, she gained muscle in strength. And I would argue that contributes to it, right? 100%, so it's a huge, huge deal. I think we've all experienced that ourselves as dads, and you know, you get no sleep with the little ones and then you get older.

Well, I think going back to what we talked about earlier about people being aware of their, I think just a lot of people aren't aware of it. For some weird reason, there's hundreds of books, maybe thousands of books written about morning routines, but very few people focus on evening routines. There's just kind of, we just just regard it. But yet ironically, everybody's pretty aware that sleep is important.

Like that's been touted for a long time now. Most everybody is familiar with hearing that. Yet there's just not a lot of energy and effort put towards how you set that night to be successful. It's just this idea of like, oh yeah, I'm supposed to get seven to nine. And so, okay, I'm gonna try and go to bed whenever and fall asleep and only get up this time. But it's like, man, how you get prepared for bed, I think really makes a dramatic difference in the quality because sleep hygiene now. Yeah. Yeah. So, you talk a little bit about that. Are there things? I like, should you have an argument with your wife right

before we go? No, are there so pretty much as always? I know. Any time anywhere. Is there, are there some things that you either you personally practice or things that you encourage people to do to set them up for success to have that seven to nine hours?

Because simply just saying, oh, seven to nine hours. But if you're one week you're getting to bed at nine o'clock, another week you're getting to bed 11 PM, what one time you're watching tea, like what are some good behaviors? That's the biggest disaster creator is, you know, the shift work, they call it, right? If you're working graveyard, you're still better off than if you're working graveyard and then regular hours and then graveyard and going back and forth, right? We're designed for to be day creatures. So you're messing with some of your neuroendocrine system for sure when you're working graveyard. Melatonin doesn't work during the day.

It works when it starts getting dark and if you're living like a vampire, that's going to hinder you. But again, going back and forth, mixing it up is the worst. And I'm going back to what you referenced about, you know, going to bed at the same time, waking up at the same time, your body loves that kind of regularity. And if you're going to change one, we've shown, and you're probably everyone in this room, for all the years of training, working on a team, whatever, you got up at five every morning. Try changing that. That's ridiculous. On the weekends, you're like, five o'clock,

what am I doing here? And that's actually a good thing. And by the way, on weekends, they say, as much as you don't want to, you're better off getting up at five o'clock, seven days a week because of that regularity that's needed. But the hard part is, turning off the tube and watching one more of the series, right?

Take to adjust that, go into bedtime, which is what you should work on. In terms of the falling asleep, you're trying to work on something called sleep pressure. For me, and I think everyone in this room, what's the best one for that? Working your butt hard on the gym, or wherever you're working out, right?

Because that is great. We're leaving that pressure as a mistake that some people make by trying to get a nap in. I'm not saying avoid naps. The bias actually designed for this, from the research. We're made for that siesta, okay, afternoon. We don't do that anymore in the industrial ages,

for the most part. But if you get away with it great, if you're having trouble falling asleep, which is not typically the issue, most people have problem staying asleep. They wake up after four hours, thinking about the 2.3 kids in a mortgage, and they ruminate about things

that's much more difficult to deal with. But I argue, again, going back to sleep hygiene, one of the best ways to deal with that is to come in to bed time with as much sleep pressure as possible. So you wake up to go to the bathroom and say, you know, four hours in and you're so exhausted you go back to sleep. There are a whole lot of tricks to staying asleep. And one of the things I would say that as a trick, you should absolutely avoid at all costs is the use of benzodiazepines,

valiums, Xanax and stuff. That can lead to a major disaster real quick. I think it's going to be worse than the opiate scourge. Yeah, way worse. Interesting. Because it sneaks up on you, the withdrawal, some from sneak up on you, whether you're taking it or you've stopped taking it, still taking it withdrawal. You can accommodate to these dosages.

Anyway, pills in general are not a good idea. There are no great sleep aids out there where you're not robbing Peter to pay a paw. So they talk about, you know, not getting a fight with your spouse, turning off the TV, you know, doing things that chill you out, as opposed to checking your email, your business email is right before bed, it might wind you up. Things that make common sense, and then just doing the best. Look, having said that, there's a famous,

I guess the equivalent of like a Tony Robbins Dale Carnegie, you guys remember that name? I think it was he who said, look, if you wake up and you're tossing and turning from one and a half an hour, there's some people, I'm convinced, that are just goal oriented. Well, get up out of bed and go do it.

What's on your mind? Go work on something and then go back to bed and that sleep pressure will build again. It's not the answer everyone wants to hear, but the body's pretty cool in the way it works in that without a pill. If you do that, a certain number of nights in a row, typically, not always, but typically, you will go to sleep that one night and then stay asleep and it'll happen for a few nights before it starts happening again. And I would argue that you guys are probably thinking about, okay, well, that didn't work for me necessarily. There are personality types. And this is just my observation that your

goal oriented, the best thing to help you stay asleep at night is accomplishing your goal. And for some of us, that might be the only way you're gonna get that sleep. And I have to do that. I'm just gonna have more of a news. I have to, like, if I have something, and it's always business related, right? If I, if Katrina asked me a question,

or I have, I start thinking about the business at 7, 8, 9 o'clock a night, I've gotta go write notes down or solve that problem before I go to bed, or else it'll disrupt the entire night. That's actually a great idea, and it's, you know, not to play Junior Shring here, because I'm not a psychiatrist, but that's the one thing I'll jump in with patients, I'll say, if you do have this issue, write it down at night,

whether it's on your iPhone or a pad of paper, or whatever, because two things will happen in the light of day. One, well, first of all, if you wake up the next night, you go, shut up, brain, I already wrote that down. So I don't need to juggle it in what I call the RAM memory. We do this all the time. Hey, remember to pay the car payment, and then you go through the day and then you wake up and then I forgot to do that. Okay. Two, in the light of day, you wake up and you go, make the car payment. Really, that was what

I was juggling all day and I woke myself up about. It's not going to be a problem. They're not going to come repo the car. Typically, I'll get several love letters from the car or the bank before they take my repossess my car. So, you realize, okay, I don't need to do this stuff. And you can put it to bed with something that sounds kind of simple or overly simplified, but sometimes it works. Yeah, no. Yeah, can you speak a little bit more because it's your background is hormones? I'm always curious because you've always heard that getting good sleep and all this

helps to kind of balance out the hormones and vice versa or vice versa. So if you don't get it, it ruins your hormones sometimes, yeah. Right. So can you speak a little bit more to like, especially the stress hormones and then how that impacts that and then also to like, you know, how you can better improve that whole process

and what's happening as you're sleeping with your hormones. A lot of times patients come to my office and make no mention of having trouble sleeping. They've heard that testosterone can get their energy back, their libido back, help with body composition. And in the 90 day follow up, they say, and by the way, doc, I'm sleeping so much better. And you go, yeah, because to the point that we were making earlier, you wake up in the middle of the night,

when you used to wake up at, when you were 20 years old and think about some of these things, it wasn't the 2.3 kids in a mortgage most likely, but it was something that meant something to you nevertheless, back then, It's all relative. What would you do? Shut up brain. I'll hang on when I wake up in the morning. Now if you're short in some of these hormones, especially the feel good, the confidence,

the whatever you want to call it, you know, the juah of evil hormone, you wake up almost like you know when you have the flu and you feel kind of crappy, the world sucks. Well 14 days later, you feel better. The world hasn't changed, but the world's great again. You know, as you, with the hormones being off as my point, particularly testosterone, which you get is that feel good and confidence hormone, you can have trouble sleeping. And so you fix that and bingo, you know, everything works again. Now, cortisol levels can rise, you know, and here's one that comes up with people that are into the fasting, you know, if you're

not designed for this, some people are, have you ever tried, I might be a silly question, you've tried some serious fasting, right? Did you have problems sleeping after a couple, a couple of three nights of fasting? See, so you must have a pretty good, a pretty good time of keeping muscle on your frame or regulating your sugars. When I fasted, which I've done probably twice in my life, you know, I don't like missing meals, it's one of the things I noticed after probably the third day. And I'm not talking about like a hardcore fast, like a pro long fast is what I did one time. I couldn't sleep. My cortisol levels had to have been off the charts. And I had palpitations and arrhythmias and other arrhythmias.

So what's my point? You got to pay attention to what works for you. Again, that theme keeps popping up. And one thing can lead to another, as I said earlier, advice versa. If you regulate your testosterone, if it's dysregulated, then sometimes that can solve all your sleep problems. And if you're not getting enough sleep,

and you thereby dysregulate your thyroid, your testosterone, your cortisol, well then you can have more issues and that there's no ball effect. And by the way, coming back to this reminded me, one of the great motivators for getting enough sleep for probably a lot of all of our patients' clients out, five nights in a row of less than your requisite

seven to nine hours, whatever it is, you can lower your incidence sensitivity by as much as 50%. Yeah. And for most people that worry about body composition, that's all they need to hear. Although there's a myriad of reasons why you should get enough sleep,

but that will get their attention. Make me talk. I think I know I too, because in terms of, I have digestive, gastrointestinal issues, and so for me to step away from eating for a bit, I actually helped enhance my sleep a bit, because of that, that was usually a thing.

I had to figure that out to stop eating at a certain time during the day because I really impacted my sleep. There was a segment in your book that you wrote about a compound called Metformin, which I keep hearing about. Metformin, Metformin, I've always heard this in the biohacking space, the health space.

Why is this included in your book? And well, first off, what is it? And what's the deal with Metformin? What does it do? And then why this included in your book? First off, what is it and what's the deal with the metform and what does it do and then why is it in the book that you're talking about with longevity and health span? Now we're getting to some of the nitty gritty beyond the basics. Yeah. So there are processes in the body that help reset things we can call it for lack of a better word, whether it's through a mechanism called autophagy, whether it's through down regulation of mTOR, one complex, whether it's through activation of AMPK. These are all avenues by which the body can regenerate itself

and recycle things. So metformin is great because first and foremost, it lowers blood sugar. It's an old, very old diabetic drug derived from a plant I don't know as old how long has it been around? You know what? I don't know the exact date But I mean it's age old and that's why it's cheap as dirt, which is another benefit Well, that's good because if it's been around for a while we see we know we have at least some long-term data showing Oh the safety I mean the biggest risk with it and I've never had an issue with any of my patients, is if you have chronic kidney disease, you got to worry about lactic acidosis. Okay.

19-22. It was a discovery. There you go. So, metformin has been used by anti-aggers more recently used by anti-aggers more recently to lower blood sugar, which we know comes with all kinds of positives, right? Not overdoing it, which by the way, metformer won't do like if you were to inject yourself with insulin. You can actually kill yourself. That's why I was cautioned bodybuilders against. I've never used insulin. It's gonna be the most dangerous hormone they use.

You know what? I just, I don't even know how they rationalize it, but I would never touch it. Okay, if I were a bodybuilder or anybody, unless you needed it, right? But metform is very safe in that regard. The only potential drawback with metform is there's some evidence that shows it affects

one of the mitochondrial, well, affects the mitochondria in one of the complexes, I think it's C2. And yet I've talked to athletes to say, no, it hasn't affected my ability to work out at all. And I'm not talking about your weakened athlete. So how much of that is actually real or not, or how much it affects people,

I don't see in the evidence for it. But, but Foreman can activate AMPK, which they, all these, the things I mentioned just now seem to be very interrelated. I forgot to mention the search engine. We heard about that right, activating start one and start two. For these processes, again, the bottom line is they help regenerate the tissue. They help, for example, a topogy takes cellular waste and recycles it. It cleans up the mess we talked about earlier at a cellular level. So I use the analogy of a kitchen, right?

You're slinging food all day. And if all you do is keep cooking the slinging food, you're gonna have a messy kitchen. You gotta stop, wash the dishes, wash the pans. Otherwise, you're cooking tomorrow with a dirty pan and you're gonna get something that's not as good for you as it should have been, right? Rancid oil, for example.

Well, the same thing happens. You start misfolding the proteins that have one job in mind. Now, they're misfolded a little bit and they do something that they're not supposed to do. Or, you know, to further the analogy, you know, you spill spaghetti sauce on the recipe book so you go, well, is that three ounces or eight ounces? Can't read that. So the DNA, the recipe gets ruined and then it's making the wrong things because the DNA, the instruction is corrupted.

So the process of etophagy cleans up the mess, the process of DNA repair is fixing the recipe book and all this is happening at a cellular level and keeping us from degrading and this is a major cause of aging. It's keeping us from aging. How much of a difference do you see typically in patients when they add formant to fasting glucose? Well, typically you're going to lower your A1C, which is a hemoglobin A1C, by no less than about 0.3% I've observed, and that's just me observing. That's not a study or whatever.

And that's fantastic. I mean, no matter how you're slicing it, that's a great start in the right direction. In terms of feeling better, most patients who need it are going to notice it. If you're already at a 4.8, which is relatively low, and you go on Metformin, drop it to 4.5, which is pretty much ridiculously low, the juices are going to be worth a squeeze. Save your money and do something else. But Metformin for somebody who might be in the normal range, and say 5.5%, and you bring it down to 5.2 or 5.0, that's fantastic.

What do they notice? Most people will say they feel better, but honestly, you may not necessarily notice anything, but you know that you are protected more so in almost all cases against most forms of cancer, inflammation, remember sugar is the right hand man of what we now call inflammation. Have an excess sugar is no bueno. You need enough and no more than that. So regulating sugar in of itself does, does the trick. But again, modulating this, this process in the liver called

AMPK, you're activating it, that's a regenerative tool in and of itself. So it's another mechanism, just like exercise is to say, hey, body, set these wheels in motion. And for some people who, whether they don't like exercise, or they can't, okay, can use metform and not as a replacement, 100%, but to get some of the same benefit without having to do the exercise. Now, if they may not feel it, is this taking an account when we measure biological age? So let's say they don't feel it, but yet because they start taking this, they could see an improvement on their biological age, is this taking an account when we measure that? Yeah.

And of course, when I say you can't feel it, I mean, I'm dealing with a patient population that's normally very healthy to begin with. You're diabetic and you get on metform. we measure that? Yeah, and of course, when I say you can't feel it, I mean, I'm dealing with a patient population that's normally very healthy to begin with. If you're diabetic and you get on metform, and you're probably gonna notice a big difference. Yeah, yeah. No, but I like you saying that I appreciate it, because a lot of times people just disregard something

because they don't have this feeling, which is why I think things like pre-workout are so oversold because it's something that people feel and so they just assume it's this great thing. It's just like, You'll want to full amice him, you'll get this. Yeah, they'll take a pre-workout, but then they're low on vitamin D,

they don't get enough magnesium, they're missing all these things that are way more essential but they're pumping the pre-workout because they can feel it. When I take vitamin D, I don't really feel anything, I take magnesium, I don't really feel anything, so they don't take those things, and it's just like, you're missing that. So that's why I like that you say that you may not feel it,

but hey, if it's improving your biological age, it's improving. That's part of the reason behind the book is to show, hey, look, if you don't see a benefit like you're describing without looking at, say, the assays of your blood, biological markers for aging inflammatory markers, here's the science behind it. So even if you don't feel like,

you know, obviously testosterone, if you're low in it, if you're a place that that's a sexy hormone, literally in a lot of ways, right? You feel the difference with that, but if you were to pump up your pregnant alone, are you gonna appreciate a difference in color perception necessarily? No.

Are you gonna notice your cognition bouncing up, not necessarily? I would argue not even close to just having the energy for the brain to work that you're going to get with the restoration of your testosterone level. So you do have to rely on the science to go, okay, but here's what the studies show. And trust that, yeah, this is helping me in a long haul over the next 20 years or literally the rest of my life, which we hope is going to be a lot longer than that.

And that's important, right? I think you guys probably experience the same frustration I do because of just what you're saying. Oh, I don't say, notice anything with that extra magnesium, except, you know, I have an explosive stool the next morning. Okay. Well, first of all, let's modulate the dose. But second of all, it's a long-term play here, guys.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about hormone therapy. This is obviously the field that you're most active in. And hormone therapy has been relegated for a long time. I guess if you consider what the public perception to be, to be kind of like this cosmetic part of health. Like a hormone therapy, just to make you look better, make your skin look better.

This is what Hollywood actors do, what celebrities do. But you put it in your book in regards to health span and longevity. So let's talk about that with hormone therapy. How can hormone therapy improve those in people? Well, if we skip the, I don't know if you want to refer to as the hedonistic aspects of it, which,

hey, what's wrong with that? Who doesn't want to refer to it as the hedonistic aspects of it, which, hey, what's wrong with that? Who doesn't want to look better, feel better, perform better? But I think I make it in reference to controversial topic that includes anabolic steroids. I believe it's the fourth leading cause of death currently, false, right? In the elderly, people that are infirm for whatever falls, right? In the elderly people that are in front of you. For whatever reason, right? It's a misleading stat because while they may not die

from the fall itself, oftentimes they'll die because of say a hospital acquired pneumonia or because they decompensate so much that, you know, within a six month or 12 month period, they die because they just decompensate. Dr. Ran, let me stop you right there. Yeah. I train a lot of surgeons and I'll never forget this, that I heard from at least four of them, the following statement. They would say, yeah, you break a hip and then you dive pneumonia. They would say that all the time. So you could see the direct deaths from falls, but they would tell me all the time, oh, when you're at that age and

you don't have good mobility and strength to begin with, and then you's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a count as you died of that broken hip. Interesting. Think about that for a second, if it's still the way they keep tallies. So yeah, you might argue it's closer to number two or a close third leading cause of death. Well, it makes sense, let's put it positively.

It makes sense then that you want to make those infirm people firm enough, as it were, so they don't fall as easily. You still have to get out there and do the work, but why don't a lot of patients' clients do the work? They're not seeing results. And if you're 80 years old and you pick up a weight program, you're less likely to see results than some of our 30-year-olds,

they're already complaining that they're not seeing the results enough. Well, you've given the ability to leverage all the good work they're doing, which goes into more than just the exercise, sleep, and the ability to leverage all the good work they're doing, which goes into more than just the exercise, sleep, and the eating right and everything, and they get the results, and they're less likely to fall. I mean, to me, it's out of the park home run.

You guys agree? Oh, 100 per year. You're preaching the choir. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, optimizing hormones through working with a doctor, in combination with all those other things we talked about, it's like night and day in terms of the types of results

and progress and strengthiness, almost in a, is that a fair statement? Yeah, and the, you know, the horse is out of the barn and there's so much research out there. It boggles my mind. I hate to say it, but almost on a daily basis, when I hear patients referring to other physicians, and I don't, you know, I can say this because I'm a fellow it, but almost on a daily basis, when I hear patients referring to other physicians, and I can say this because I'm a fellow physician, right?

So I can bag on my own profession to some degree, that haven't done the research on this, because even if it's the first time a patient is mentioning it, well, don't just poo-poo it out of hand. Go back and do the research, because it's out there. There's plenty out there. Start with the publication of the Mayo Clinical Proceedings in 2016 from the International Consensus from 2015

that was headed by Abraham Morgan Tyler. He's with Harvard and he wrote Testosterone for Life, but he got together over 20 of the leading urologists, I think all of them in the world and came up with nine resolutions. Just start there. I'll leave it at that so audience can go out there and look it up themselves. But just so that you go, oh, coronary artery disease, that's out. It actually is correlated, meaning low testosterone, coronary artery disease, not the other way around. Type-2 diabetes,

out, cancer out. These rumors are very easily dispelled. And so physicians nowadays have no excuse. And I think that's turning around so that more and more people are gonna get access to what should be basic, right? I feel it's one of those, the dose determines the poison type of deal where the few anomalies that have been highlighted

in the news or what are that of, oh, so and so, and then they try and pen it to, he was taking all these anabolic steroids therefore they're bad, like they try and correlate things like that that happen all the time. And it's huge. I can't name names, but, you know, I'm in Los Angeles, I work out at the Mecca and, you know, in Venice.

And so I see and know a lot of these stories. And what they don't include because it takes away from the sensationalization of the story is that first of all, unfortunately, and I'm not saying this is the case for all bodybuilders, certainly you're thinking, but look, if all, I say all, I don't mean to sound that way either,

because a lot of these guys hold regular jobs and still do it But certainly in the old days the job was just being a bodybuilder, right? And so you worked out and Then you ate and then you hung out and let's just say idle minus the devil's playground So a lot of these guys point is Taking recreational drugs that led to their death a A lot of these guys also had things that you don't hear about where, for a lot of reasons they're scared to go to the doctor

because they don't wanna get a lecture about all the stuff they're taking or they're just scared of physicians or they're just scared overall about, oh, I have this chest pain now for three years that I haven't seen the doctor about, and that can happen to anybody. It's magnified, it's leveraged, however,

by anabolic steroids, which are different than testosterone, regular and dodgedly produced steroids, right? In that it furthers the production of cholesterol, particularly the so-called bad cholesterol, the LDL, that if you have extant coronary artery disease, it's only gonna make it a heck of a lot worse. So was it the anabolic steroids steroids or was it the person? Yeah.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I just looked this up the other day in preparation for this. I went down a rabbit hole.

And I looked at the pro bodybuilders, which is in extreme, by the way, just for the audience, all extreme sports, you're gonna see a, there's always a, there's a trade-off at that level with longevity and performance at the extreme levels. Great point. So if you look at like the top, top, top endurance athletes, you'll see them, they don't live very long in comparison to healthy normal people. Especially if they try and stay in it for too long and we go back to that whole idea

of the J-curve or Amesis. Yeah. Too much. Yeah. So you see those pro athletes, so pro bodybuilders are the extreme end of strength training or lifting weights. But what's interesting is you do see a higher rate among them with coronary artery type diseases and heart issues.

They have a much lower than average rate of cancer, which is cool because this peaks into the potential value of just simply building muscle. And studies will show muscle is actually, or building muscle is a wonderful protection against cancer. So I'm not saying it will be a probiotic builder because you do raise your risk of, you know, if you live like them, of dying of heart issues, but even at that extreme level, their muscle, even with their crazy lifestyle, they have a half the rate of cancers than the average person, which is, I think, kind of interesting. That's huge. And again, you don't have to be, you know, you don't have to, matter of cancers than the average person, which is I think kind of interesting. That's huge.

And again, you don't have to be, you don't have to, matter of fact, you are not as healthy to pack on excess muscle. Right. Muscle that I would argue is non-functional because as a bodybuilder, you're not building the sarcometer's perpendicular to resistance, right?

You don't care if they go this way, this way, you're just trying to build mass. And that extra is actually a liability as opposed to functional muscle, and I was making this point recently too. So yeah, you're spot on as usual. I mean, again, the doses in the poison, et cetera. One point I wanna make about that too,

is that with heart, okay, atrial fibrillation, very common, much more so than certainly you would expect, right, I'm running every day, or I'm rowing every day, biking every day, athletes like that have a greater incidence than the norm of atrial fibrillation, which is an irregular heartbeat, very common. However, and first of all, let's absorb that for a second, that's a GEP, right, wait, I'm not supposed to do what's supposed to be good for me.

Complications from it though are way, way lower, fewer than the normal average person. So, okay, you get this and it has to do it just, you know, you get a larger heart is closer to the pulmonary thing. There could be an adaptation there, we're just not quite, we don't really know all about that. Yeah, it's kind of like, it's a GIP. It's like, well, you know, the formation of plaques and adaptation

that 300 years ago was great, patch off the artery because you were dead by 3035 on average. It didn't matter if you passed it too much, right? But now we're living longer, it's an adaptation that didn't serve us well. So, in this case, you know, I still, are you keep going with your endurance training because at the end of the day, even though you're more likely to develop a fib than the average person, you are still better off from it. You're not going to become hemodynamically unstable because of it, which is a fancy way of saying, have problems because of it. Now I know that hormone therapy can be appropriate for almost anybody depending on the situation.

You could have children who are growth hormone deficient or have issues with their hormones. But generally speaking with healthy people, when does hormone therapy become something that's like, okay, this is probably around the age where you should look into this because you're probably gonna start to really derive some value from moving in this direction.

Great question. And one that gets not enough attention, although Abraham Morgan Taylor, who used to frustrate me because he would use a number, and he was considered one of the leading experts, along with guys like Dr. Lipscholtz, pioneers like Lee and Wright. But you know, it used to be for men, it used to be a total test hospital of 450 or below, 415-integral cancer deciliter. Now to answer your question, it is not a number. It's when you start having symptoms, duh, right? Everyone's different and what are you going to do? If someone comes up and forget about laboratory assays being not necessarily precise all

the time and therefore accurate all the time, but if you came up for the old standard at 451, is that mean you're not gonna treat? You know, and no, it gets crazy in a lot of this with medicine, like the new weight loss drugs. Do you stop giving the new weight loss drugs when they're no longer at a BMI that suggests they're overweight? And then we're gonna go like this the rest of their life

or do you say, okay, this person has an issue, let's continue. So anyway, to answer your question, but again, along with an answer, when someone comes up with what are standard or not, but, you know, which implicates low testosterone, well, that's when you start to look into it anyway. Now, of course, you look up and you go, wow, you've got a thousand antigrants, predestine or total testosterone, we should probably look somewhere else for the reasons why you have low energy and, you know, rectile this function or something like that. But if it

comes to, instead of 450, you know, 550, you go, yeah, let's give this a whirl. At least retest. When does that commonly start to pop up and most people are like in their 40s, would you say? I think by definition, it's still age 35, whether it's for paramanopause or paranthropause, we call it. Got it. Or manopause. I don't know, that was a thing.

Yeah, by the way, just to back you up, there was a study done on testosterone and the ability to build muscle and strength. And they were trying to see if there was a relationship between total testosterone, free testosterone and muscle and strength. And what they found that was a better indicator or a correlate for strength

than muscle was androgen receptor density. So back to what you were saying, someone could have testosterone appear, someone could have a kind of below, but the guy with the lower testosterone has more angiogen receptors, feels great. The guy over here has got low density of angiogen receptors, doesn't feel so great.

So this is why those ranges are can be so wildly different. And that does happen, and it's one of the cool things about mother nature too, is that's going to vary not just by genetics, but, you know, well, to some degree, your ability to adapt is obviously based upon your genetics too, but I always explain to patients what's cool is if your body can't make more keys, more testosterone,

for the locks, it'll make more locks for the same keys. That's up regulating the receptors, the density as you put it, the ender receptors. How cool is that? And then, you know, that's why when people first start on TRT, oftentimes I get the, wow, you know, if I could just feel the same way I did after the first six weeks, you're getting started, you know, when you kicked in for the first first weeks, because after that six weeks and it kicks in, you've got a month where your body still got those ender receptors up regulated and you feel better than you might

ever feel. And then they downregulate to what is more normal, right? Is that why for the first three months, my libido was like most likely. Yeah, I was driving my wife crazy. It was too much. Then it regulated out. You know, what do you think? So my mother-in-law does this and I wish I had met her when I was a young trainer and I thought that was very interesting and smart that she would told her kids to do this. When they were in their late 20s and by 30, it was like her thing, like make sure

you go get your blood work done by 30. And she would tell them to get all your hormones checked when you're in a state of feeling, because I know there's people listening right now that are like, oh, I feel good. I don't need any hormones or I'm young, right? And she would say what you should do is get it checked then so you know your baseline. So then when you do hit 35, 40 or 50 years old and you don't feel good, you have a reference

point to go like and to add to your point of like how, you know, you could be a 450 person and feel amazing on 450 or you could be a 900 person and feel amazing or terrible and vice versa. It's absolutely true. And most of the people who come see me, in my practice, are in need of testosterone placement therapy. But I get people to say, hey, I'm just here to be proactive.

I want to know, and gosh, I've had two in the last two weeks whose levels weren't necessarily great, but said, yeah, I don't have any complaints. I said, well, great. Then we don't have to talk about testosterone. Some other things you can do to be proactive when we had discussion about sleep and, and, and a lot of other things, but that is again, the key, you know, per your question, do you have the symptoms or not?

You don't treat what doesn't exist, right? So, and, and, you know, you don't fix what's not broken. Now, the other, the other part to that though is, again, we do have, and you got to be careful here, correlation between low testosterone things like coronary artery disease, type 2 diabetes, colon cancer, prostate cancer, nausea, and proces. But anyone in this room, if you were not on T, I would say, so, whether the odds that you're going to get any of those, right? With the exception of prostate cancer and coronary artery disease, which can be driven by genetics

and some other factors, and we can screen for those. And again, if you say, yeah, I'm good, then I wouldn't necessarily do it because it's correlated with things that are associated with dysfunction and aging. You with me? Absolutely. Let's talk about peptides. The peptide space is fascinating to me. This is like a whole, it's exploding, by the way.

Obviously in our space, people are talking about peptides left and right. What peptides would you say are in the context of longevity and health span? Would you say, and I know it's up to the individual, right? Some are going to be better for some people than others. But which ones do you like to work with the most in that category for improving those

things? The most popular are the growth hormone releasing screedogogs that are peptides, although I have to throw in there one that's not a peptide. It's a peptide of a medic, which is just a fancy way of saying it looks and acts like one, but it's not. It's I butamworn, right? but they help the body's own ability to produce more growth hormone. And of course, then eventually some IGF1, which does most of the omens work, but doesn't get the credit for what GH does, which only lasts for about 30 minutes anyway in the body. That's probably the most popular because it helps regenerate tissue organs, particularly

ligamins and tendons for the athlete. And I'd say again, that's the most popular. It's not well known, but you know, we cannot, as doctors, prescribe growth hormone, except for seven what are considered wasting disorders, it's actually illegal. Growth hormone is crazy because it's like the fountain of view. That's great. Well, it's been touted as a fountain of youth. I would say not necessarily, and there's arguments, of course, about IGF1 being higher low, and we get to that if you want, because I definitely have my own opinion about it, seeing patients over the years.

But it's the only FDA approved drug that's not approved for off-flable use. I would argue, though, that you don't need it. First of all, it's ridiculously expensive. And the levels that you're looking for, you want to approximate and we use IGF1 as a circuit marker for GH. Are the levels you had say when you were 20, if you're using it to help regenerate organs,

and I said I wouldn't go off of this, but just very briefly as a side tangent, if you're riding a desk all day, do you really need a lot of growth hormones slash IGF1? Probably not as much as if you're working an oil rig. Okay, you're working like you guys are every day with patients and working out yourselves and that sort of thing. But to get the level you had when you were 20,

which would amount to say, say 350, I think some milligrams per desolate or a VJF1, you only need a GH to create a gut because you'll get there within and then you're, you're, you're called, you're recrudesced in the gland, you're getting it running like it used to when you were 20, and you're not suppressing its own use. So let's say you got a Las Vegas, you don't want to bring your injectable C-A-C-A-C-1295, which is a peptide that'll boost your growth hormone levels, where you're not going to be tanked all of a sudden. You'll just slowly come back down to your prior level of natural production,

right? And again, if you can keep it going, which we can't do with testosterone at later ages, that's why we use TRT, then why not keep it going with something that gets your own GH producing itself? How effective are they at raising? Because you guys will measure IGF1, that's kind of the surrogate, right? So you'll put them on a secreta log, Ipa Merlin, or CJC, or Ibuda Morin, and you'll look at the IGF1,

and how effective is it with each patient when you have them take it? Do you always see, or do you sometimes see not some? Of course, they not always. No, it's funny to see how people will or will not react to certain ones. There's an issue involved where you don't want to be suppressing your own production by eating late at night and therefore spiking your own insulin production, which will counter the effects, you know, the oppose the effects of endogenous production of GH. So that's one thing you

got to avoid and that can confound the results, you know, if a patient is not compliant with that, where they're sensitive to it, where they're insulin insensitive and their insulin's always kind of high anyway. But yeah, for the most part though, I will say not just in studies I've read in the last six months, but over the course of my use of I beat a moron for at least a decade, definitely see the best results with I beat a moron. What is it about I beat a moron that makes me sleep like a baby? I mean, I get some of the most amazing sleep. I wish I knew because you're not necessarily the rule.

Some people actually will wake up hungry. It's not the norm, but it's the flip side where the grillin that's activated through the whole mechanism is through grillin, which is the same mechanism that you get the munchies from. If you don't, it's a grillin agonist. Is that what it is? It's a grillin agonist. Yes, that can make you hungry. That's why you should take these at bedtime. Yeah. Don't go channel surfing or you wake up and look like a bomb when off in your kitchen. But some people get the summulence from Ibutamorin. Most people get some form of

somalence if they're going to get any from Somorin. One of the original ones you used to be called Jeref. Dr. Walker was involved in all that research. What's the half life of Ibutamorin's 24 hours? Boy, you could put me on this. I'm sorry, I think it might be about 24. I think that's why you take it daily if I'm not mistaken. Oh yeah, you definitely want to take it nightly and yeah, I mean like some whirlwind, I think it's like max 15 minutes is the half life.

So I tried the CJC 1295 with the Samarroland combination and then I did the Ibutamorin, very different results from each one of them. The Ibutamorin, like, first of all, my appetite goes up all day long. So I would say, when I've talked about it, yeah, it's just 24 hours. When I talk about it to our audience, I say,

if you're trying to gain muscle and you defeat yourself, for me at least, this is great, because it makes me want to eat. And I get strength gains, I get crazy pumps in the gym. I feel like I'm on something. The other combination is much more subtle. I just kind of feel better, but it doesn't, it's not like the Ibuda morons, I holy crap.

I'm on something I don't know. You're probably experiencing a little bit of water retention too, about 20, 25%. That's where the pumps come from. Yeah, exactly. And you feel like the joints are hydraulic now. Probably literally in some cases, right, the Ibuda moron.

Yeah, I love to sleep from it. I mean, I notice a huge difference of just like crash. Then there you go. I mean, and those are the things that come up, and if we start having issues with people staying asleep like we talked about earlier, those are things that as a physician and hopefully just because it's out there now,

you gotta think about. And maybe bring it up with your own physician. Like, you know, I don't wanna do ambient, which by the way, I didn't say this earlier, but most of the sleep aids are to get you to fall asleep, not stay asleep. So ambient, lunessta, what we call the Z drugs, they have a Z in them,

including the benzodiazepines are for falling asleep, although as I say that, the benzos are actually to help you stay asleep, but I don't recommend you use them. But again again something like this, it's a win-win. So I have, I swear I have like a, it runs in my family, my uncle, my, my, whatever everybody in it, we've all been this way. I've been this way since I was child. It's like I'm so sensitive to having to go pee that even if I don't have to go pee bad just a little bit, I wake up. And the only thing that's made me sleep through that is the Ibidomorin. It'll make me sleep.

It makes you sleep heavier. Yeah, I sleep heavier through the night and I'm totally fine. If not, I'm so sensitive that I'll wake up two or three times, have to go pee. Yeah, but who isn't, man, who can wake up and go, I have to pee and then go back to sleep. Yeah, right. So the idea, like I think you're suggesting,

you don't want to not wake up for any reasons until it's time to wake up. Yeah, I've got an older or the last maybe 10 years I have to wake up to go pee once, but I stopped drinking water, like two hours before. Make sure I get all my water, but then stop about two hours before, that made a big difference for me.

Yeah, that'll take me from like three down to two, right? So that's like, that's kind of what happens when, but the Ibutamorin has been one of the few things that I've been able to take that actually will get me through the night sometimes. Which is amazing. I would stay with it then. Yeah, no, it's because the reason

of how important sleep is uninterrupted sleep. Yep, no. There was a segment in your book about some like, kind of stuff that's happening on the, I don't know if it's a, you know, in the future, like gene editing and kind of looking forward stem cell type of stuff. Like, where's that fall in this category of lung cancer?

It's really exciting because now we're talking about really doing some sharp shooting that can make a big difference in life. With gene editing, I'll start there. You know, where it's actually pretty easy to do compared to a lot of things that we can do, but we don't have enough testing yet. And it's politically charged, too, because you're really changing the cars you were dealt with. So there's a lot of, well, okay, well, you

know, we're manipulating what God did and that sort of thing out there. We're testing a lot of, in my opinion, we're testing a lot of the rare disorders first. I think consciously we're doing this on purpose. And we're getting a lot of good results. We've had some failures. And I'm not sure it's for the gene editing per se if this makes sense, but perhaps the way we're trying,

what we're splicing in there, we, I don't think we have it necessarily right. So we've had some deaths, but, you know, when you're dealing with rare disorders or really serious ones, it makes the stakes a little bit lower in the sense that, hey, well, I was gonna live with, say, Huntington's Korea, which is miserable.

God forbid, you know, anyone has it because in your 30s, it's just, you know, it's a horrible disease to get. Anyone would take the chance to get rid of that disease if they knew it was common, right? So I think we're, we're, do you think in the next decade or two that this is gonna just revolutionize?

Yeah, I have to. Okay, okay. Because here now with the geno, and you're changing the genome, okay, your genome sequencing, not the epigenome, which would then of course be the effect you're having on the DNA. This goes back to something that, you know, changes the entire window with which you have to work. So, some people have a window that they're

more predisposed to diabetes, and if they eat a kidney, kidney diet, for example, and fast, and do a lot of exercise, we will never face anything close to diabetes. But if they don't, boy, are they likely to get it? This makes it so, you know, it shifts over like this so that, yeah, the odds are you getting diabetes. I mean, you just don't really screw up. Okay. You follow?

And of course, with major diseases, I mean, that's a game changer. Forget about some of these things that we can already control with what we call our activities, a daily living that just turns off that gene, which is somewhat minor, which puts you over here, like I say, with a ketogenic tide, doesn't activate those genes. So yeah, that one's a game changer. And if you take it to its ultimate,

then we change our genes that allow us to, like lizards, you know, re you take it to its ultimate, then we change our genes that allow us to, like lizards, you know, regrow a tail, we can regrow organs conceivably down the road, we can extend our predetermined lifespan. And then you combine that with, you know, talking about regrow in tails and whatnot, with stem cells, okay, angine editing or just with stem cells alone conceivably, we can generate new organs that can then

be transplanted. So you know, you had a hard attack for whatever reason or some toxic event or virus or your heart can't. No need to suppress. It's like your own organ. It just goes right in. Your body accepts it. That's the ideal, right?

Yeah. Excellent. Have we been measuring people's biological age long enough to see some interesting, like, what are the most dramatic swings you've seen? Like, someone comes in, the first time you do biological age, it says, you know, and they're chronological age is actually 50 and it says they're 70 or whatever, you start to dial some things in, get them on hormone and they're doing all these great, and then also it goes from 70 all the way down to say

50. What are some, are we? Yeah, not to be, how much are we moving the needle, I guess. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to answer because of the testing. How confident are we with the testing? Like, if you look at my first generation of the biological age and clock, you might see a difference of 20 years and you know, okay, that might represent five, you know, ideally, you know, maximally, but it means we're in the right direction, goes back to that precision and everything. But again, it has to do with the faith that you have or don't have and the markers we're using,

I don't think we can quantify it as much as we want to right now. I think most of what we go back to is what any layman can do for the most part and look at so many go, you say you're 50, huh? You look like you're 70. You know, we're a God dog. You're 70? No way, dude. That's your best gauge. And this is where we'll go back to the gene editing, though,

I think, because we're finding there definitely some advantages that centenarians have, genetically speaking, and to delve into that, just a smidge. What's happening is there, and I think we're going to focus a lot more on the immune system and changing the immune function through gene editing. They're getting the same disease as we are. They're just postponing it a decade or more. And then they come up with Alzheimer's, heart disease, or whatever, but it's not until they're a hundred, or 90, or whatever. So that's the key right now, but with gene editing, I think we can change that, certainly, but I think we'll also extend, you know, the estimates are right now,

we can make it to 120 based upon the limits of our genes. But we'll be able to extend that upon the limits of our genes, but we'll be able to extend that as we learn more and more about what we can do with the genes and which ones do which? Wow. What about current, like available stem cell therapies? Like I had a friend who's like, oh man, I went to this doctor in Mexico and they did the stem cell therapy.

My knee pain was totally gone. And I hear stories like this. I don't know much about it. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, What do we know that it can do now for people? Pickin' one of my favorites because I have experienced results of that myself as I document in the book. Yeah. The stem cell knows what to do. And now we've identified another cell called I'm U cell, which is even arguably more effective and with no risk of cancer development,

which is a minor risk with stem cells anyway, but I have to say that because it is a difference. The stem cell can, I mean, I argue a monkey could do it because the stem cell knows where to go to get the work done. It knows where to find the work and then once it gets there, knows what to do. So you can inject it intravenously, a very large percentage goes through the lungs, but and may stay there, but the rest of it goes to the rest of the body. And we'll find say damaged heart tissue.

And if it's your own stem cell, derived from your own bone marrow or collected through aphoresis or whatever it might be, your stem cells will find that and actually engraft and replace that damaged heart tissue cell, a myocyte, we call it, right? So to me, that's just fascinating. That we can do right now where we have more room to improve is with nerve tissue repair

because that's the one where, like for example, we've had, and you can imagine where this would be really good to with to, with, with, spinal cord injuries, right? Unfortunately, a goodly amount, I think is 25% of the time. And it's mainly because we haven't, what we call free differentiated. We haven't started the stem cell in the right direction toward a nerve tissue. 25% of the time, you'll start to develop a tumor. That's no bueno. So we're advancing there, but here's another area where that we can do, work with right now that I think

is exciting, where we use stem cells to create organ tissue. So we can start with harvested tissue from a liver and use that to create a bunch of Petri dishes as it were with liver tissue and test various therapies, whether it's drug therapy or not, so we don't have to go through human trials right away or even animal trials. We're skipping to human tissue right away

and think about, we replicate human livers and we say, okay, this drug works to get rid of fatty liver or no. No, I see, wow. The development process. That's an advantage. And then you combine that with, just keep the head with, hey, okay, this drug works to get rid of fatty liver or no. No, I see. The development process. That's not any. And you combine that with, just keep ahead with, hey, hey, we can combine it with, hey, hey, that's going to be like, eat everything up.

This is where I'm getting really excited where, and you know, to borrow from Ray Kurzweil, live long enough to live forever or live long enough to live longer, right? Stick with the basics, stay in the game while we develop these over the next decade or so, so we can take advantage of them and then extend our health and longevity even further. Well, a lot of the advancements in, for example, cancer treatments or other types of treatments, where we see people are living longer or surviving has to do with early detection and technologies that are able to detect things when they're treatable.

You have a segment in the book talking about this. Are there advancements or new ways that you could detect, like I heard about people getting these full body scans where they're going, oh, you know, looks like we're early, we have a super early case of this type of cancer, you want to see unless it got to stage four. Now we could treat it in your fine type of deal. Are there new technologies with the early detection now

that people can look into? Yeah, and that's huge because I would argue there's very little fitting shoes to die from breast cancer, prostate cancer, heart disease, or colon cancer. Now, if you make use of the early detection tools we have, imaging, like you suggest MRI imaging, is very useful because you can see a tumor. For example, for prostate, there's nothing better

than something called a multi-parametric MRI of the prostate, where we can see a lesion in something that's typically walnut-sized or larger as small as three millimeters. Oh, wow. And I think the curate for cancer stage, I wanna say two or below, I might be wrong on that, is like 97%, okay, with what we call a PyRads 2 or lower, it's just a staging. That's for prostate. It's not the standard staging, but it's something you pick up per imaging. That's where you have that early detection of prostate cancer. That's before you've biopsy to yet. Wow, and then is that what, will it put like radioactive pellets or whatever there? That's where you have that early detection of prostate cancer. That's before you've biopsied it. Wow.

Is that what, do we'll put radioactive pellets or whatever there? Well, that's one of the treatment. But the idea is you have, well, you've identified it. So now you know what your options are. That's right. The first thing is to identify it. I went through it. I document that in the book.

Maybe I don't document it to a large degree, but I caught it at what we would call stage zero. I think I'm six years now cancer-free without a biopsy. We found it with imaging and to go further than what you were saying with a liquid biopsy test. Back then it was called Uncle Blot, but it's similar to a lot of these new ones. The most famous is the Galerie from Grail, which detect, I think, over 50 different cancers. Procedede's not one of the biggest ones.

I think they have like a 37% sensitivity, but these are all tools that should be utilized together. Okay. And, you know, in medicine, we don't like to shotgun things necessarily, and you don't want to open a Pandora's box. You know, I was always taught, you do test based upon, you know, what you pick up in history and physical and complaints and stuff. You don't just treat it like a car and have a typical maintenance, you know, plan that you, okay, this test all these things and tweak that

and tweak that based on the testing. But here, I think it's definitely different where you wanna use every screening tool possible because you do wanna open up that can if it's appropriate. Okay, so if you can detect that prostate cancer and I'm harping in that one because think about it. We're all athletes here, right? How many times you have to take a swing in a baseball

before you're good at it? They say 10,000 swings. Do you think that proctologist has done this 10,000 times and with proficiency? The tip of the finger against something kind of mushy the size of a walnut? Come on, guys. I mean, really. What made you get that imaging? Was it, did you get a PSA test that came back? Well, it's also a lot. This liquid biopsy, which is no longer available in the United States, picked up on something called the Enoch's 2 protein, which is only, it's only found in fetal tissue or cancer. Wow.

Period. So you weren't pregnant? No. And I mean, that's developing too because Dr. Moray, who's been at least 35 years, 34 years of his life researching this, he wrote a big textbook on it. I'm not going to say that it was an error, but it may not actually be, it's associated, it may not be the actual ENOX2 protein, but the point being very accurate. Everybody, I ever used the test on, except for one instance, we had a GI cancer that we couldn't find.

Now, you know how long the GI tract is and how hard it might be to find that on imaging, or any other kind of testing. But in the studies with More, if they couldn't find the cancer initially that was picked up with the Enoch's II protein test, which will pick up the test that's based upon the weight, okay, and the pH, we can find the tissue of origin.

We later found the cancer, okay, so there's a 100% correlation with the early test, and a significant number of people, where it's not like, okay, this is not a powerful enough study. But we have other ones now. There's ways to pick up on certain forms of prostate cancer, PCA3, again, the liquid biopsy, and there are so many coming down.

There's a, I wanna say C2N is the company that has a test for Alzheimer's now. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it's early detection. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I've read that Alzheimer's starts decades before somebody has like really...

Signs of it. Yeah, what you want to jump on, if you can, if there's anything you can do about that one, I mean, I feel for, it's in my family, so not by gene, but by expression. And so it's a sensitive topic for me too. But yeah, I mean, who wants to go that way if you can avoid it? And that's the point of all this, whether it's colon cancer, which again, come on. I mean, the testing for that now, we've got some liquid biopsies, we've got some virtual testing.

The standard is still something which, you know, I mean, the most hateful part of the process is the prep. You know, basically you spend all night with a pill on the toilet after drinking something that makes you go to clear out the orange, yeah, fluid or whatever it is. But come on, is it worth it? Because that's a pretty good way to go. Should we be, so we're all 40 now?

Is that, should we go get the colon? Statistics show that if you have a first-rear relative that has one of these cancers in your family go early, like 45 otherwise, 50 seems to be the magic number at which there's more yield for these tests because we're more likely to find something. That said, if you're a little high-strong, like maybe office in the strong, you know, and it's keeping you up at night, which is what it was for me, and like get tested earlier, you know, and it's keeping you up a night, which what it was for me, and like, get tested earlier, you know, whether it's a coronary CT angiogram, which goes to testing.

That one is also misunderstood, even by cardiologists, because the idea is, oh, we don't want you to get irradiated. You guys might all be too young, but when I used to go to the dentist, okay, dental x-rays were limited every five years, so they would ask you, well, Mr. McLean, you had dental x-rays in the last five years. Yeah, I think it was about three years ago. Okay, never mind.

Come on back, we're going to clean your teeth. Nowadays, when you go to the dentist for your annual, they take you back, they didn't ask you a question. They go back and they're juicing you for the x-rays because why? There's not that much of an issue with radiation like there used to be. And with a CT, a coronary CT angiogram, they're doing these calcium scores,

which is one pass, about six to eight seconds through the CT, and you're getting maybe, all you guys are probably getting six miliseeverts of radiation, right? Max, actually less than that, because that's just one pass, so maybe half that. To make another pass, you're getting to six. Another six to eight seconds,

you're getting six miloseeverts of radiation. The maximum recommended annually is 5050, where we live here, you guys say, you're getting maybe 3.5 miloseeverts per year, just being on a planet. And if you take an overseas trip you're getting more than on the plane right yeah on the plane right so Why would we not want to use that if something could save your life a particularly and another sounds backwards but with athletes

I've had athletes that had 99 98% blockage in their widow maker the left anterior descending They were going fine. Ah, you know what, how do I ate something bad last night? The wife, thank God says, go to the yard. And they whisk them into the, the OR and they're getting stents. Their athletes, they can get away with it. Not everyone's that well conditioned

and can get away with it like that. It's a no brainer. And I got back to, you know, the way we think. If it's keeping you up at night, get it done. And it's an extra pass compared to the, because they call the coronary calcium score, which is worthless. Why?

Because a calcium score, first of all, it's not that well correlated. I've had people that had zero calcium score, okay? But recently, I happen to be about 89% blockage in the left anterior descending, because it's a softer, fibrous plaque, which will kill you. That's the danger of stuff. The calcified plaque is old news. The body says, okay, we've dealt with the inflammation.

We walled it off. The immune system came, macrophages, cholesterol, it would rescue. Now we're going to calcify it. Okay, we're done there. And you're not gonna reverse it. So it's old news. And again, it's not correlated one way or the other. I had a coronary calcium score, I think it was like 32. Okay.

What? I've done everything right. What? This is impossible. This is not rage. All right. And yet again, because my brain was working overtime, worried about it when I did a coronary CT angiogram,

squeaky clean otherwise, thank goodness. But the point is, and we forget this, the screening is so important because you can get these things despite what you think you're doing right from A to Z, because something as simple as, say, an abscess tooth, okay, that goes unrecognized for a year or more, or GI bug. Some you don't have much control over, right unless you want to live in a bubble.

It's an infection. It goes throughout the blood. It could seed somewhere in the coronary areas of the heart. You got inflammation in bingo. You've done everything right. And yet here you have this problem. As a matter of fact, for the three people I mentioned that I was thinking of, two of them had 98%,

one had 99%. I went back and looked at their labs. All three patients of mine. I was like, okay, how can this happen on my watch? What's going on here? What did I do wrong? I told you I'm a CPA before I'm a doctor, right? So I'm presumably honest and conservative.

Every single one of their labs, LDL of 80, HL of 60, plus or minus two points on either those numbers for all three people. That's a cardiologist dream. It was a previous infection, you think, huh? Well, first, I mean, going to a home of the subject about cholesterol and its effects or not, but yeah, it had to be something different. In my case, again, I lived a pretty good life. I went back and I remember when I was too broke to be able to fix a tooth where the filling had fallen out and it started rotting away. I think it sounds gross. I know, I was too broke to be able to fix a tooth where the filling had fallen out

and it started rotting away. I think it sounds gross. I know, but I was too broke to fix it. And all I could do was figure, yeah, it's been my 30s must have been what she did that little piece in my heart to finally, you know, when I got the tooth fixed, my body got the upper hand on it.

That was that. Just to back you up, by the way, studies are pretty clear on this, that flossing reduces your risk of heart disease, probably because of that. Well, you pick up on a, I don't know if I devoted an entire chapter to it, but why we separate dental health

from all the other healths. I mean, it's a specialty just like anything else, and it's huge for that reason. We all know, okay, you've heard a friend's, if not you, oh yeah, he had a heart murmur, so he has to get prophylactic antibiotics before he has the dental work. Okay, there had a heart murmur, so he has to get prophylactic antibiotics before he has the intent to work. Okay, there's a connection there.

We gotta take great care of our mouth as well as our feet, our genitals, our heart, our liver, right? Otherwise, it can be a problem for that reason. Interesting. Well, Dr. Rand, always awesome talking to you. I think, again, you're like the, you're our favorite person in this space, the person I think we will recommend the most.

So for anybody listening, who's- The only one too, but that's okay. For anybody who wants to learn about longevity and being active and fit for the rest of your life, this is the guy to go to and your book is great. So, thanks a lot. Thanks for coming on the show. No, thanks for having me as always.

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