Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2125: Heal Like Wolverine: BPC 157 with Dr. William Seeds

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with hormone and peptide expert, Dr. William Seeds about the amazing healing properties of BPC 157. What’s the connection between BPC 157 and GHRP (Growth Hormone Release peptides)? (2:29) Bodybuilders and IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor 1). (9:08) Don’t get caught up in measuring IGF-1. (13:08) Any worries with Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone (GHRH) regarding insulin sensitivity? (16:51) If you don’t have muscle mass everything is going to go wrong. (21:09) MK-0667 (Ibutamoren mesylate) benefits. (25:03) The difference between oral vs injection as the delivery method for BP 157. (30:25) How BPC 157 improves your body cells to do what they normally do. (36:08) Does BPC 157 help modulate cancer? (38:37) How collagen can enhance healing. (47:17) The areas of the body that BPC 157 is most beneficial. (50:00) Keeping up with his kids through fitness. (53:15) Related Links/Products Mentioned TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN!  Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Visit PRx Performance for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! July Promotion: MAPS Starter | MAPS Starter Bundle 50% off! **Code JULY50 at checkout** Pentadecapeptide BPC 157 enhances the growth hormone receptor expression in tendon fibroblasts Effects of tesamorelin on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in HIV: a randomised, double-blind, multicentre trial The Resistance Training Revolution – Book by Sal Di Stefano Boosting brain’s waste removal system could improve Alzheimer’s outcomes Senescence and cancer — role and therapeutic opportunities Mind Pump #2122: Deadlift Masterclass Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest Dr. William Seeds (@williamseedsmd) Instagram Dr. William Seeds | Seeds.md  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Alright, today's episode, we talk about Wolverine Serum. What am I talking about here? BPC157. This is the world's best known peptide. Why it literally makes you heal faster. It's remarkable. In fact, in today's

episode, we had Dr. Seeds on. He is the world's foremost authority on peptides. In today's episode, we talk all about BPC157, its value, its benefits, how to use it, how does it work in the body? It's crazy stuff, all of us have experienced it ourselves. So we know this is like legit. It's pretty cool, by the way, if you're interested in working with peptides,

like BPC157, don't go online and buy a bunch of gray market crap. You don't know what's in there. Work with doctors and a real licensed pharmacy. Go to mphoromons.com and you can actually work with doctors and they work with peptides like BPC157. So you know what you're getting and you get those actual results

that you hear about like in today's episode. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. PRX Performance, this company makes home gym equipment that's as good or better than the stuff you use at your commercial gym, except it's designed to maximize space. For example, they have a squat rack that folds into the wall. It only comes off the wall less than six inches. So you can literally equip your garage to be a gym. Then you fold the squat rack very easily with two hands, very easy, into the wall less than six inches. So you can literally equip your garage to be a gym, then you fold the squat rack very easily

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get 5% off. Also, we're running a sale on some workout programs. Maps starter, this is our beginner strength training program is half off. Then we have a bundle that includes Maps and a Balic and Maps Prime. It's called a starter bundle. That's also half off. You can find both at mapsfitnessproducts.com, but you have to use the code July 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. Dr. Seeds, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, these are great. So we wanted to talk about BPC157. I mentioned that to you. I said, hey, I want to do an episode on this peptide because it's probably one of the widest, most widely used, I would say peptides, just generally speaking.

You mentioned that you also wanted to talk about, if we were going to talk about BPC, GHRP peptides, growth hormone releasing peptides as well. What's the connection? Why talk about growth hormone releasing peptides and BPC 157 in the same podcast? Well, and more so, I think following the concept of what you guys are behind, BPC 157 is more of a recovery repair type of peptide. It's a peptide focused on, and I think it has that purpose and serves that purpose best in recovering, repairing, for injury or for training. And in combining, so what I was talking about, where GHRH is and GHRP. So growth hormone, releasing

hormone, growth hormone, releasing peptides. So there's the GHRHs are like the CJCs, the Tess and Morellen, the GHRPs are like the Ipem Morellen, the GHRP26, the MK0677. So they're different. And I'll go through that again real quickly, but what I was trying to say is that that platform of those type of peptides together, I think you could, I could do fine, if I could tell you, and it's actually, where I started, you could change most everything as far as

efficiency in the cell for most people with just those three peptides. You don't need to mess. If you just had those in your armatarium and in your toolbox in combination with diet, exercise, sleep, all the things that are, you know, we find important. You're going to just, you're going to change people's lives for the better and you're going to improve side of protection of cells and you're going to improve efficiencies of the cell. And BPC work in the CJC up in Rellins, those things work well because BPC will increase growth hormone receptors on cells and enhance what you're doing with the GHRHs and GHRPs because you're trying to make the most out of these signaling agents you can.

And one of the, I think one of the significant, and the GHRH is GHRP's, they enhance androgen receptors on cells. So they'll make your energy work better. Well, let me, okay, hold on. So BPC up regulates growth hormone receptors. Correct. So for people listening, growth hormone attaches to a receptor.

That's how it tells the body what to do. BPC increases the number of those receptors. So now whatever growth hormone you have becomes more effective in essence. Correct. And then the GHRs and GHRPs, these growth hormone releasing peptides or compounds, they upregulate Androgen receptors, which is what testosterone attaches to.

Correct. Wow. It's like a, it's a, so there's a synergistic, correct? Very synergistic effect. Yeah. I call it a platform. I'm like, okay, we're setting this platform for you to take advantage of all the things you're doing right or doing well.

And to make, you know, my belief in improvement in training of lifting or athleticism is always maybe not the specific exercise at the time because all those things keep changing. It's actually the recovery and repair in between that differentiates people that really can accelerate and that want to continue and makes the most out of how muscle breaks down and how it rebuilds. And those three peptides are focused exactly on that, because the downstream receptor, so you're, okay, so you're using BPC, that is improving some other growth receptors and other growth factors in the cell,

in particular increasing the growth hormone receptor. You're using these GHR-HZHRPs to improve the physiologic release of growth hormone, plus they have their own receptors they work on, which I can get into. But let's just say, now you've got your receptors working better, you've got growth hormones that's getting to the cell better. Well, what's that doing? Well, that's creating the environment to improve the IGF-1 production,

which is the downstream product of growth hormone, which is IGF-1 is like the key to maturation, proliferation, divergiation of like myoblasts or muscle cells. You know, when you work out and you break down a muscle, you have satellite cells that sit around this thing called the sarcolema and the satellite cells by the action of trauma, they are activated and they actually release,

they release their own IGF-1EC, which is known as mechanical growth factor, MGF. People probably don't know that peptide, it's MGF. That creates the ability to start changing that satellite cell, which is sem cell, into a myoblast, and then those myoblast fuse to the muscle fibers to rebuild. Hyperdrophy. Yes. I just read a study on that by the way,

where the speculation was on hyperplasia, but they saw a study and said, oh no, they're actually fusing. We've known that forever, everybody's, yeah. But that's awesome, that's awesome, yeah. It's exactly what happens. And you're making muscle fibers like bigger by fusing with other rather than creating more muscle fibers.

Yes, yeah. I just read that study, it's pretty remarkable. fiber is like bigger by fusing with other rather than creating more muscle fibers. Yes. Yeah. I just read that study. It's pretty remarkable. So is that debunk or our thought process around what happens to some of these like massive bodybuilders from over time? Yeah. Their muscle fibers just become rather than creating more muscle fibers, which is what people

thought hyperplager. You're just making them permanently bigger to some extent. Correct. And they're just very, they're significantly hypertrophied. And, but you're adding, you can make, you, you can to some degree, you can make more, you can make some more myoblasts. Okay. You can, you can build some.

But it's, it's incremental and it you know those guys those massive Changes happen just don't happen overnight. I mean it takes him a little time. That's years and years Yeah, so yeah, so so it happens, but it's all about So what I was getting what I was trying to say is that it's that downstream I Jeff one that's really the key From growth hormone. It's it's one of the key players in recovery and repair of muscle. IGF1, it's insulin-like growth factor, right? That's what it's called. That's the, when people talk about the muscle building effects

or potential of growth hormone, right? When body builders will take it, really, it's not the growth hormone, it's the IGF1. Exactly. Cause it'll take growth hormone, right? When body builders will take it, really, it's not the growth hormone, it's the IGF-1. That's causing all that. Because it'll take growth hormone, but that causes your liver to produce more IGF-1. Well, it's in stages. So the growth hormone starts,

it starts this incredible cascade of other biochemical pathways. So it's, remember the thing I talked about, AMPK. Yeah. So it starts that activation of AMPK that will start this process of influencing PGC1 alpha that influences another factor that is a,

for mitochondrial biogenesis, it's for increasing mitochondria, it's for improving fat, oxidation, it like starts doing all these things that are what catabolic that start cleaning up a cell, but then it also goes down this pathway of producing IGF one that's all about building and working with building and with the activation of MTOR down the road. It's a concert. It's an orchestra that works together. Now is this why anecdotally, right?

Because bodybuilders have always been the, I mean, they're the experimental cosmonauts, right? They're the ones that go out and there's do crazy stuff, uh, experiment on themselves. And then you get a bunch of anecdotes and sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes there's quite a bit of insight, which is really interesting. They'll always talk about how, well, you know, growth hormone doesn't really, it builds muscle when you're testosterone's really high. Otherwise, it doesn't do

a whole lot. Is it that synergistic effect where the IGF-1 is improving the potential for this proliferation, but you need the signaling from the testosterone to really make it happen? Or is it just so subtle that unless your testosterone is there, you're not going to see a huge effect? It's everything together. And it really is, the IGF one is, none of this happens unless you're stressing the muscle. So you can take all the testosterone you want and all IGF one and you know, your organs might grow. If you take too much, you'll get, you know, those turtle stomachs and stuff that people don't know they get because they're taking too much IGF1 by themselves or growth hormone. They're super physiologic doses. But they, you have

to have the stress mechanisms of the weight training to make those things work. Okay. Now, how significant is the rise in IGF1 in a typical healthy individual who takes, let's say, Ibuda moron or CJC or like, what does it look like when you're measuring? And are there people who are non-responders? I've heard this where some people take these things and just nothing happens to the IGF one, or is that a myth?

So that's where people get caught up in the measuring. If you're measuring IGF one, you're just gonna lose on this because it's a very quick response. It's a physiologic response, meaning you're not going to really you're getting enough You're getting enough in this cell to do its work You're not you're not necessarily making the liver pump out a ton of IGF 1 itself most of the things like the all the ISO I Jeff 1 divides into

three ISO forums IGF 1 a IGF 1 So, IGF1 divides into three isophoroms. IGF1, IGF1, IGF1, IGF1, IGF1, EB, and IGF1, EC. EC is the mechanical growth factor. But what those are, those are just all little isophoroms that are active in growth and maturation, proliferation of cells that are local in a cell. They're local in the satellite cell and the muscle cells that are released that make things happen.

So it's all at a local level. So you're making the cell release this. It's not like you're signing a signal and the liver is making all this IGF1 and it's going out throughout the body. That occurs if you're going above physiologic levels of growth hormone or you're using exogenous growth hormone or you're using IGF1 by itself as a peptide which you can use to enhance muscle growth and injury repair. It's a great tool to use for that. Then you're going to raise levels, serum levels of IGF-1.

What I'm saying is physiologic releases of IGF-1 are there when you need it, and it's not like you're sustaining these high levels. They're not going beyond a super physiologic level. Does that make sense? It does, it does. Are there any worries? So people get caught up and trying to, like I've had arguments.

I'm still taking growth hormone or something. Is what? Like people get caught up because they compare it to like. Correct, yeah. You're not gonna, if you're taking growth hormone, you're gonna increase, you know, you're not going to, if you're taking growth hormone, you're going to increase, you know, you're going to increase your IGF1 levels because you're constantly bleeding growth hormone. There's no growth hormones meant to be pulsed. It's meant to be pulsed throughout the day, because pulse at night, it can be anywhere from three to six

to eight pulses in some people But it's meant to be pulsed every three hours When you take a exogenous growth hormone that means it's stimulating 24-7 It's not pulsing. It's you've all the sudden got this growth hormone in that and that's what causes like negative feedback issues And all these causes cells in essence it causes all of these problems that people have no idea that's happening causes like negative feedback issues and all these causes cell senescence. It causes all of these problems that people have no idea that's happening when they're using it.

But that release of growth, so then you're not pulsing, you're just getting constant stimulation of that growth hormone receptor that's making IGF1 continuously so you're going to get a rise in IGF1 that's going to be super physiologic that you're going to see in the serum in the blood. Are there any worries with growth hormone releases or growth hormone releasing peptides

in regards to insulin sensitivity or issues with blood sugar. Because I know that growth hormone and insulin, I don't know, there's somewhat inversely related, right? Like you don't want, if you're people with disorders where they produce too much growth hormone tend to become diabetic. Right. If people who have lots of insulin tend to have really low growth hormone,

is there any worry that if I go on one of these and I take them that I could develop issues with insulin sensitivity? No. And in fact, the best studies have been in the specifically with AIDS patients that have significant lipidistrophy where they have an incredible amount of fat around their their organs. TestimeraLin specifically is for them, right? Exactly. That's where all the research from Tessamorland came from AIDS. And what you're doing with a growth hormone, releasing hormone, or a GHRH like Tess Morellon, is your, you're really setting, so one of the pathways we didn't talk about is you're, you're setting the cell up to not utilize glucose, but to utilize fat as its primary substrate or it's for oxidation to make ATP, basically, to make energy. And so you're getting that system back on track, basically.

Again, you can always look at these as modulators, because what they're doing is just letting the cell get back to where it was again. And that's what Tesarollin has, it shows that you're utilizing fat as its oxidative substrate to make ATP. So in the beginning, like when people use Tess and Rowland, they may sometimes see their glucose might be a little higher for a little bit, or they may have more, they're just starting to use their fat.

It's like, it's a little counterintuitive, but you want more fat to utilize fat, but in order to utilize more fat, you have to make more mitochondria. Well, the GHRH is, remember what I told you that pathway, AMPK to PGC1Alpha to start the cell to transcribe more mitochondrial biogenesis, to make more mitochondria.

Well, that's what you're doing. You're making more mitochondria to use more fat, so you're catching up eventually to start. So initially, you'll see higher glucose a little bit because you're using more fat, but then the mitochondria catch up, and then you're okay. So there's an adaptation process. Wow, that makes a lot of sense. It can happen with people just doing G-H-R, like C-J-C and I-P-M-R-L,

and they can see things like that at the beginning, and that's why you don't get hooked into looking at those parameters. You've got to think about what are you doing down the road to improve insulin sensitivity? Because what you're doing, what does exercise do, so like diabetics that are insulin resistant,

they can't get glucose into muscle. Muscle is your biggest endocrine gland, it needs glucose. Well, exercise turns off that mechanism and it transports this glute-for-transporter to the muscle that just brings glucose in with exercise. Well, the GLP or the GHRH is GHRPs, they activate something called AMPK and AMPK activates those glute-forrests to go to the cell to pull and glucose too. It's like an exercise mimetic, but it's doing what exercise does, but it's doing the

same thing. By the way, this is why strength training is the most effective form of exercise in terms of insulin sensitivity. Of course. You just have larger, you know, basically storage capacity. Correct. And you increase all those glute four. Correct. Receptors like crazy.

That's why we preach that all the time. Well, it's what it's, you know, it's great. It's funny. You bring that up. I don't know why now. All of a sudden now strength training is becoming a real important in health. Well, have you heard of this podcast called Mindful?

Yeah, we're trying to take the most of the time. We're all hard to promote it now. We're trying to take the most of the time. We've been the promoted that way. We're trying to take the picture for eight years with that. I think we're making it one way maybe. Okay, then my hat's off to you guys. I mean, well, that's how I wrote that book. But almost, is it been three years now?

Yeah. Three years ago called the Resistance Training Revolution. And that was the idea behind it was that. Well, this is awesome then. I didn't mean any disrespect. No, you did it. We're just fucking nervous. We're just super nervous.

So, we think we caused it. I don't know. But. No, you did it. We're just fucking, we're just super nervous to assist in something. We think we caused it, but we don't know. But you can be, that's awesome because, because, right, I mean, I mean, I'm, I don't care if you can go out and run a two, or two miles or five miles or, okay, great, but can you show me how many, can you get off the floor, you know, can you, I mean, it's all about functionality

and strength. And I can tell you from a whole different perspective. You know, by the way, I'm also an orthopedic surgeon, I'm sports trained, joint trained, and I see all those people who say, hey, doc, where are my golden years go? I'm like, I saved up all this money, I've worked so hard for 30 years

and I can't even walk with my wife down the street. I can't get off the out of the chair. I can't, and I saw that one as a younger physician day after day and I was just like, what is wrong? It's what you guys are professing. I mean, this is awesome. Billy. You hear this?

Well, it's the difference between catabolic exercise and anabolic exercise. And so strength training is pro tissue. And that the tissue that we just, I mean, sarcopenia is, I mean, it's everywhere now. Yeah, right. That's like the, it's, well, it well, if you don't have muscle mass, everything's going to go wrong. I mean, you got to have muscle. You know, that's where all the science right now. It's incredible where we are with looking at these things called myocons and exorkinds that are actually produced

by strength training, by resistance training. And in fact, one of the bigger fields right now looking at this is cancer research, because there are these myocins that are being made that actually act as inhibitors of certain processes that will propagate cancer or metastasis of cancer. And that's a whole, that's incredible that you gotta get to this point to convince people how important strength training is, you gotta get it to that state to show people like,

what was the study you just, I'm gonna study you reference just the other day about bodybuilders. Oh, so pro bodybuilders, okay? Not healthy athletes. Like these are athletes that just pump themselves full of exogenous hormones and feed themselves ridiculous amounts and all kinds of stuff.

And so there was this study that was done on pro bodybuilders. Not to talk about people lift weights. It was a big difference between, you work out weights and then you go and try to compete in bodybuilding. One's healthy, one is extreme and unhealthy. And they looked at the causes of death. And heart disease was higher in pro bodybuilders, kidney disease was higher in pro bodybuilders.

15% lower chance of cancer. These are guys that are taking growth hormone, testosterone, anabolic, things that are, those levels are not good for you. And yet muscle so protective against cancer, that their rate of cancer went down in these unhealthy individuals. That's just how powerful of an anti-cancer effect muscle has.

Correct. It's pretty wild. Yeah, it's amazing. So on the growth hormone peptides, I got to ask you this because I've used them and they feel very different from one another. So I've used CJC, Tess Amerolin, Ipa Merlin, Ibuda Morin. Boy do they feel different. Ibuda Morin in particular feels very different from the others. So, and I'm going to, this is just from what I understand. So I'm not by no means an expert on this,

but it's a Grellen mimic. Grellen is a hormone that makes you hungry. So I definitely notice an appetite increase, but my strength increases on, I'd be the more in, even right out the gates was substantial in comparison, whereas the others felt much more subtle. Like what's going on? Or am I just not seeing the fact

that maybe I'm eating more because of the the the grueling effect? So twofold, one, it is, it is a stronger, it's not it's that's, this is what we're talking about, MK77, it's been more, it's oral and you're, were you taking, which dosage were you taking? Oh gosh, I don't know, 25 milligrams, does that sound right?

Once a day or twice. Once a day. Okay. At night. Okay, that's pretty, so there's 12.5 twice a day or that you can do 25 twice a day or 25 in the morning or at night. I think that's what I do that night. So what you're doing with that is it's a mimetic meaning it's not quite a peptide but it mimics the grellen-like peptide which is the GHRP that increases your appetite, let some of them don't.

So you're already turning on some aspects of MTOR. It's more MTOR specific. But what you're doing is you're actually Mk0677 does have a higher increase in IGF1. Okay. So it's just more anabolic. Correct. And it's more because it has a better effect on pulling glucose into muscle, so it pulls water in with it too.

Oh yeah, I felt that, 100%. I got, my muscles got really full like I was carb loaded or something in a very short, like within four or five days. Yeah. I think it's a great peptide,. I think it's a great peptide, and I think it's a great peptide to cycle. I don't think it's a great peptide to stay on

for a long period of time, because of some of this discussion I've had with you that you brought up about saturation of receptors, and specifically in the brain. Just the worry about this is one of them. So GHRH is you can never saturate a GHRH receptor, but GHRPs you can. And so that's where you got to be, I just think you got to know that that's possible. And so you use it for three or four months

and you go off of it. And you change it. That's what I've done. I've done two to three at a time. Another reason why you should do this with a position for that exact reason. The exact one's again, I'm gonna saturate someone that don't.

So if I did this like an idiot, I would never stop, right? Cause I feel it and it feels so great. I like the sleep that I got on it was, that was one of the most profound things that I found from my beat of morn was the sleep that I got. So all of them will... So what you're doing is...

Your... So sleep is four stages. Your recovery and repair of muscle is the biggest part of that. With is stage four sleep. And actually growth hormone, your highest level of when you're younger of growth hormone release is that first cycle stage 4 sleep at night. And that's when you get better sleep. And so that's actually what it's doing.

It's reinforcing that pulse of growth hormone at that time. And in fact, it has this incredible effect on, just like all the GHR, GHG, GRP's on, improving glymphatic drainage. That's like the toxin release of the brain. It's lymph, you have lymphatics in your brain. And growth hormone is necessary to release the glimphatic to let the system drain,

and it does it in stage three, four sleep at night. It's another reason. Like brain recovery, basically. Oh, yeah, it's why people, it's why as you get older, it's another function of why we believe inflammatory aspects happen in the brain because the drainage isn't the way it's most probably interesting.

So as you start learning all of these things and you start seeing how much of a change they make in mechanisms and pathways, you start, like my mind started going, well, gosh, wish I would have started this when I was younger. Wish I would have been like at this age doing this because I might be at a better stage to protect myself later. You know, that's the, this side of protection's huge, I think, for all of these peptides.

Just like talking about the GHRH or the GLP1 receptors. Same thing. I actually wanted to bring it back a bit to the BPC 157 and the delivery of that in terms of like oral versus, you know, taking an injection and sort of the localized effect of that, the healing effect, like what the difference is between, you know, both of those kind of strategies. So I'll tell you, the first thing I'll tell you is, I don't know if any of us really have the answer to what's better, but I will tell you I was always the, I was always the one saying that it had to be injectable and it was more site-specific. And I think that's true. If you're working on injury, BPC-157 works much better site-specific.

Does it pull the bicep boom right in the bicep? Yeah, or in the sub-Q. It doesn't have to be in the tendon. It just can be sub-Q. It can be proximal. Correct. Okay. And that's just trial and error. And I'm just telling you, that's how it works. It's best if you're using it in that capacity for repair of an injury.

And then once the injury is, let's say you've gotten over it, then you can use it around the hip area to be a general, to be systemic. That's for injury. For oral, I think it has a much bigger place for the gut microbiome and dysbiosis and things like that. Now, can it work?

Does it work for people that have pain and issues like that? If you take it orally, yes, it does. So, there is a systemic effect somewhat orally. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I'm just saying in the way I practice with using that peptide and it was just trial and error was listening again to my patients and finding out that boy when you go site specific, big difference, as far as just taking it around the hip area and then expect it to do as good a job for, let's say, a lateral epiconidolitis

of the elbow or something. And I injected my hip as good as injecting around the sub-Q tissue, not going into the tendon because you'll get into trouble, but just getting in the sub-Q or even going a little higher up in the arm around the triceps or something, just close to the area, made a much bigger difference if you were in that area.

Interesting. Do you think that's because it's more effective at healing locally or because there's a localized anti-inflammatory fact that just kinda? It just gets right, yeah, it's more localized and it gets that signaling as much stronger. So I'm just making sense, it's just there. So I'm currently taking BPC with KPV orally. Okay, and this is for gut health. Great now the BPC for gut health. It's not

Correct me if I'm wrong. It's not antimicrobial what it does is in the gut is it is Accelerating healing of let's say the mucus aligning just gut inflammation. And then the KPV is more of the antimicrobial or are they both doing something similar? They're both doing something so the BPC 157 is certainly working on on the gut barrier. It's working on on cell adhesion and proving the the permeability between the cells. All the junctions. Yeah, okay. It's working also on It's working on giving that cell the ability then Because those cells used to you mentioned antimicrobial well your best your best mechanism to offset bad bacteria or viruses or fungus or anything like that are you make your own anti-microbials. They're called catholesicitins and

they're which are peptides. And if you're making the cell barrier better, if you're making the cell better, you're improving the cell's ability to make those antimicrobials. And specifically those things called catholescentins. And there's also something called Bated Defensins, which are other antimicrobials. But the catholescentin I'm talking about, there's one we know about called LL37

that sometimes we'll use, it's a peptide that we use to work against dysbiosis and so forth if we're with BPC and KPV and so forth. So what I'm trying to say is BPC actually has so many indirect effects on the gut and improving the microbiome. And the KPV is a fragment of alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone. It's a three peptide sequence that comes, it's the anti-inflammatory pathway, our anti-inflammatory component of alpha melanocyte

stimulating hormone, which is a melacortin. Okay, so is it gonna make me tan? No. Okay. It should not. Okay, okay. which is those are that yeah, those are melanocyte That those are like like that's melanitant to melanitant one. Okay, those are like those like those those affect the melanin right in your skin They and yeah, they increase melanogenesis Okay, okay, my legs could use that yeah. Yeah. So this is that fragment that was

pulled. Okay. And that has anti and has another way of working against inflammatory cytokines and chemokines and so forth. And they make again, hence they make this this environment better for your antimicrobials to work, your antivirals, and your antifungal thing. Is it fair to say, then, that BPC essentially improves your body's cells' ability to do what they normally do? So you've got wide-ranging effects because of that property. It helps your cells just heal faster, not be damaged as much and therefore do what they do better.

Yeah, this is interesting. You say this. So I had a relationship with the Croatians that have the patent for BPC. They created BPC. This incredible team and particular doc who developed BPC, had found it and wrote all of those, all those papers we read that are all the animal studies. He wrote, his team basically wrote everything on this. I used to, I'd call him and talk to him about things I was seeing and how I was using it. And, and he'd send me videos and showing me different animals, like how he could activate a muscle when it was crushed. And how just pouring BPC on the muscle would get it contracting again acutely.

Oh, it's amazing. Oh, amazing. Like BPC is the real deal. And then I would start to talk to him and I'd say, hey, so, you know, we need to talk more. Let's talk about, let me tell you what I'm doing with these other peptides and he'd just laugh and stop there and he'd be like, what are you, you know, what are you talking about William? You, there's one peptide, BPC. You know, like, don't talk to me about these other peptides. What are you talking about William? There's one peptide, BPC.

Don't talk to me about these other peptides. I mean, like holy cry. That's funny. Because it helps with some of the diseases I met. How profound it is. I mean, if you look like why talk about anything else, this thing is so amazing. We're still learning so much about it, I imagine, right? That's his thought.

Yeah, it's the, here is the, you know, it is the most widely used peptide that absolutely anybody who takes it can tell you it makes a difference. Yeah. Yet the, you know, we have what now, one, one and a half to clinical studies on this now because it's not, you can't patent it. You know, there's nobody that's going to put the money into studying this, like it really needs to be studied because it should. Well, it's just starting to happen now. Now, their labs that are going after this now, finally, finally, we're going to see some awesome, awesome stuff on BPC. Now, because BPC is like pro-healing, pro-regenerative, yeah. Does that make it pro-proliferative for cancer? Do you need to be careful?

Great question because people, you know, it, it in, it's a modulator meaning so this is what's the, this is this is how I try to help people understand peptides. Peptides help the cell in a way that it can, you know, cell always wants to correct itself. It always wants to get on the right path. It wants to make the right decisions. The BPC you can consider is something that's modulating the cell in the correct pattern. Because we have studies that show that where you would think giving BPC in a cancerous state would create more angiogenesis, you know, more blood flow to a cancer, more, well, actually does the opposite.

Yeah, it does the opposite. And it has to do with these Vegeph receptors. but it's in the state of the disease. It's modulating. So then would it be safe to say that? Because they use, we've got clinical, like there's studies out there now showing BPC used to help cancer patients that have been decimated by radiation and chemotherapy who can't eat, who can't, well, you give them BPC and that you're healing their gut, right? Because you rip their gut apart and they gain

weight, they get stronger, they get energy right away. And you're not seeing increased rates of cancer or you're not seeing any of those things you'd be concerned with. So then is it safe to say that it's not making your recovery ability or healing ability above and beyond what your potential is? Correct. Okay. It speeds, it can speed things up. It just makes sure you're on the right path to that recovery and repair that the body

typically goes through. And an inflammatory response and a healing process, there are all those steps that have to occur. So I remember as a kid in my teens and 20s, even early 20s, I'd get an injury and I would heal two or three times as fast as I do now. So essentially BPC is like, hey, your potential's still there.

This is why you're gonna to heal faster with me. Not, we're going to make you heal faster than you ever could before. We're going to force this thing to happen. Correct. Okay. Wow. And it's just letting you again regain some of those efficiencies you had when you were younger, that you had the ability.

You didn't have things interfering. You didn't have that inflammatory process or those senescent cells around that may not turn at the right time to help you heal or may work against healing. Cell senescence is a whole new world of understanding of how as we age, as we grow, we harbor more senescent cells. You guys know what a senescent cell is a cell

that is, so when a cell starts doing things wrong in the body, it sets off a program that basically says, okay, I either have to fix myself because cells have a cycle, 24 hour cycle. It says, I gotta fix myself and get things right or else I've gotta disintegrate, go through apoptosis or I have to have the immune system come in and take me out because I'll do harm.

Well, sometimes those cells say, you know, fuck dad, I want to survive. I don't, I want to survive. I don't I want to I want to live forever So they can stop their cell cycle and all of a sudden convert into a cell that Is in a what an M-tore state and stays like that and almost becomes immortal. It's a zombie cell. Yeah, but it and it creates It just creates havoc. And it'll make other cells into senescent cells.

And they build. And they can build in the kidney, they can build in the brain, they can build in muscle, they build around fat. And so it's just something over time that you keep accruing, that is, they're difficult to get rid of. And it's what happens as we age.

And they're the ones that make the cytokines and chemokines and proteases that are pro-inflammatory that affect other cells that make things go wrong. So this is remarkable because there's always this worry. Like if you take something that speeds up cell regeneration or you take something that's going to cause your cells to multiply or grow or strengthen, there's the risk of, oh, could we amplify cancer, could we cause cancer? But in the example of when you were younger, cancer rates and teenagers is almost zero, yet they're healed and recover at incredible rates.

And as you get older, recovery goes down, that doesn't mean your cancer, it goes down, your cancer, it goes up. So this is literally a balancing, bringing you back to optimal, essentially. Yeah, and it's synescence is what leads the cancer. That's what we're finding out. Synescence is the root cause of contributing to more cancerous cells or the possibility of

a conversion into an oncogenic cell. Are they easily detectable? Is there a way to test and find out? Yeah, so we're not in a lab and taking a biopsy and things like and looking for specific markers, we can do that. But right now are there tests that can do that? No, we're not at that. Prevasive to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, these are all. So that you're, you're, you're seeing a big surge right now, where you're going to hear more like nobody, nobody talked about senescence ever before until

We started talking about it a while back about hey, this is what the focus and in cellular medicine that was our focus It's always been senescence Now it's becoming this just like peptides were nothing before this index big word is now senescence and so now you're seeing these people say Oh, you got you know, you got to get rid of those senescent cells, you've got to take this cynolytic to remove this cell. And gotta be real careful with that because you don't want to harm the good cells when you're trying to get rid of bad cells.

Really hard to differentiate. Well, it's one of those things why, what's your best cynolytic or synomodulator? Exercise. Diet. Those really, those set off the mechanisms to help the immune system to recognize these bad cells. It all comes back to the immune system and metabolism.

Is BPC the one peptide you recommend or use the most with your patients? I probably use it pretty universally with most. Oh wow. For about that, most of the time, yeah, I would say, just as big or maybe bigger as probably Cmax. Okay. That's popular. That's my tattoo bangers on 100 right now.

You mentioned earlier that, you know, with what you know now, there might have been some things that you would have done earlier ages with peptides to maybe, it's BP157, one of those that maybe you would have taken even when you were younger. Yes. Okay. So what would that look like?

Like if you're bad, if you could go back in time, you get to talk to 20-year-old yourself, how would you cycle something like BP? Would you just take it indefinitely? Would you cycle it every six months? Like how would you do it? You know, that's, I don't have an answer for that specifically. And I'm not pushing that really, but I'm thinking about it. I just think in my own brain, like it was me.

This is what I was doing. Yes, it's you. We're not prescribing anybody else. What would you go do? That I'm in trouble. I would be in my drinking water. It would be, I would be doing it more for my microbiome and my gut, I think than anything else. I would be doing it more for my microbiome and my gut. I think than anything else, and I would be taking it orally in lower doses,

like 250 micrograms daily, and I think it would be an incredible benefit for me. As an orthopedic surgeon, have you, like, because obviously you have experience from working on people's joints, you know how fast generally it takes something to heal. You know what bad joints look like? You know what they look like when they're good.

When you're using BPC or your patients are using BPC, your orthopedic patients, is it like night and day? Are you looking at them going, wow, this is, like when you first started using this, where you like this is wild. Yeah, I mean, it even started with just using, I mean, if I could take a step back when I started just using oral collagen,

like collagen hydrosolate, and getting my patients ready for surgery, I was thinking I was, you know, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get you ready for surgery, you know, I have 30% of those people coming back saying, I don't need surgery. Oh, so you killed your business. Yeah, like, I did, but it was pretty incredible, right?

It's where I start, this was 20 some years ago before they even wrote the paper on college in, like I was doing bone marrow stuff. I was, I just knew that it was something that could enhance healing because of what it does in the immune system. All these things people don't know about, but that we teach.

And I was seeing this happening in front of me and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so simple. And then Great Lakes had their collagen hydrosolate that came out of the kosher product and told him amazing product for pennies on the dollar. And I just started putting, I just, everybody, all my people just had to go on it. And I'd get people to like,

talk, I'm feeling a lot better, especially like for more for people that I thought needed a Nearthroscopy, you know, that had some, some degenerative cartilage changes, maybe. My condromalation. Yeah, you know, or meniscal tear or something that wasn't quite mechanical, but they were having problems. And you put them on the collagen and they're like,

oh my God, it changed. And it just that. And so that's where that was what got me really going more towards, okay, you know all these biologics, you know all these things that you've been studying for 40 years, let's start implementing more. And so that the BPC made a tremendous difference. But then at the time, it was tough because of who could afford to use it and how to use

that because none of that is covered by insurance. So that was always a difficult conversation. But the price has come down quite a bit for a PPC. Oh, it's come down tremendously from when it was very difficult, very, very difficult to get. Well, any areas of the body you see it's effects be most pronounced, or is it just generally great

Or types of injuries you see it be most effective for Yeah, I want to say it just more like a cute type of things it you can really see changes quicker Chronic type of injuries. That's a little different ball game That's where you got to use other combinations. Because you also might not be addressing the root, like maybe it's a movement pattern or something. Yeah, there's just a lot of other aspects of chronic injury that you got to address. And there's more of the immune side that's come into this picture with chronic injury. Immune cells play a big role. So BPC doesn't have quite the effect on the immune part of metabolism, like things like thymus and beta-4 or thymus and alpha-1 or thymulin or epitalon

or things that have an impact on the immune system where you've got to address that first or you're never going to get through that chronic problem. Got it. So chronic issues then you'll combine them, type of deal. Yeah, we've, you know, I'm using it now. Adam had a quad injury that keeps reoccurring. He used it on his cloth. I used it first on my Achilles. It worked so well. It was scary. It worked. Like I did my Achilles. I was so nervous to sprint run, do anything. I could feel felt off, didn't feel right, even after it healed.

And so I finally got the BPC, this was a couple of years ago. And I mean, it was only a few shots into using it and it felt like there was an injury anywhere. Which scared me. It was just like, it can't be that good already. Like so, it's scary how effective it is. Yeah, I think that's where it's just like, you can't be that good already. Like, so it's scary how effective it is. Yeah, I think that's where it's made.

It's Mark is in the acute side of being able to see what it can really do. Yes. And that's the other great thing about it. You don't have to, you can cycle for a couple of weeks, two, three, six weeks on it, depending on the injury, and then you can be done with it. I mean, you don't have to keep taking it.

My mindset is, again, more in the protective side and the recovery repair side, because I want all those things working for me 24-7. Are you seeing any benefits on organs? Like, if you take it orally, do you see any, like, let's say with some, who have some, maybe some liver damage or cirrhosis, are we noticing anything? No, I don't think you can make those statements that it improves fatty liver disease or

they're different peptides for that. Got it. Got it. Well, this has been awesome again, Dr. Seeds. Yeah, this is every time I talk to you again, my mind blown, with this information. Billy, we'll just keep you. There you go. Put some spray. Everybody know what my son's back here? This is like reef. What do you call it? You're building me up and he's going to get in the car and go dad.

They're full of shit, dad. Pumping your tires. I don't change that. That doesn't change so much later. It doesn't even work. When you get a great lift in and you've got him spotting and you go, what'd you think? He's like, yeah, I wasn't bad.

Like, it's impossible be a profit in your own town, man. Sounded with Toby's got a teenager. Yeah, I was a teen. What are your, how is your workout? If you don't want me to ask you, what kind of training do you do? I'm curious. It depends what my kids tell me they're doing because it got to keep up with them, but I try to do I'm big in strength and just pure strength

trying to keep some of those I'm getting more and more into more body weight high repetition So I really mix it up. You know, I do low intensity and high intensity because you got it you got to have both low intensity and high intensity because you gotta have both. You guys know, I mean, you gotta keep changing it, right? I'm all over the gambit, but I believe in all the big lifts, the squat, the bench, and the deadlift, and probably as you get into my realm,

I mean, the bigger exercise for me is the posterior chain in the reverse hyper and keeping that function, which I can tell you, for me, if I'm not on it, I can, that's a tough one. You know, you brought up something, we talked about this, like, I don't know, maybe a year ago, we're talking about, I can make the case that I think the deadlift is the king of oxercise.

Everyone says the squat is the king of oxercises. My argument for it was exactly that, how much we neglect the posterior chain and then of course as we age and just everything is rounding and closing in. So strengthening the opposing side just logically to me seems like the extra bit. And then you get all similar benefits of all the muscles you're activating like in a squat you get most of those in a deadlift too So I made the case that dead lifting is the king of all exercises for that purpose. Yeah, no it is if it but the What's the hardest thing with that? It's doing it correctly not overdoing it, right? Especially as you get older because I get you you know, that's probably the, my biggest,

probably the best thing I have going for me is my knowledge because I get hurt all the time and I have to, I have to readjust, right? I have to, okay, I've strained a pack. I got to go from flat bench to incline now for the next six months. And then you get into that incline, you're like, why am I going to go back to flat bench if I hurt myself? It's like, I start thinking more about how I can't hurt myself. And then I find a way to hurt myself. He goes the enemy with the head. Isn't it? It's crazy. but I will tell you though, my kids have gotten more into more functional type of training, like the pull-ups, the hundreds of thousands of body squats, or things that you just do over and over,

and I've been doing incorporating that. Oh my gosh. Well, that's the beautiful relationship of the trust, but the two of those, the two of those together. If you can make a good body weight mobility, 18, with the heavy strength training routine, you have the problem with all of us is that we eat with all that knowledge and being science and fitness nerds is we also like to to

find the boundary, the line. I do a little more. Let's see. So I think that's a forever battle that I'll be trying to hit PR is still a dime. Right. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. But that's what makes it fun. And that's what makes it you, and it makes it, you know, this is what I keep saying.

I don't know if this helps you with what you guys are doing. But I really think that my, I have tremendous kids. I got incredible three boys that have grown up and, you know, I couldn't say anything more about how amazing they all are. But I really believe they're disciplined and all the things that the way they focus their lives, I think it really started by working out and being disciplined and training and slowly, not quickly, but slowly seeing how things change and staying in that mode because at our house, our living room was a garage. Like, when they needed to find me, they came out or they came out and they worked out with me and I really believe that and I hope that helps with people understanding that this stuff doesn't happen overnight. It's a it's a it's a lifestyle. You are preaching the fire absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

I was actually what I was I'm talking too much, but I was just talking to Billy my son the other day. I saw this picture of this guy who was lifting. of this guy who was lifting, he was on an incline bench and next to him was his little kid with a placet. And I said, Billy, do you remember that? Because my kids, I always had placets for them to come out and bench and he's like, yep, I remember. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, thanks for coming on again, Dr. Seeds.

Yep, this is great. No, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it guys. And great message you're putting out there. I love it. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPump

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