Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2130: The Truth About Hair Loss With Jay Campbell & Nick Andrews

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Is it possible to stop and even reverse hair loss without dangerous drugs? In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Jay Campbell and Nick Andrews about the real culprit behind hair loss and what can be done about it. A little background on Nick and his pathway into peptides. (2:46) Why aren’t peptides the biggest pharma blockbusters? (5:52) Thinking of peptides as a key and a lock. (12:43) Changing the business model of the US healthcare system. (15:28) How most peptides are regenerative. (21:22) The peptides that get Nick excited. (24:38) Why DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) is not a root cause, but a contributing factor to hair loss. (31:23) The health implications of blocking DHT. (35:33) What does minoxidil do to help with hair loss? (38:51) The different pathways that contribute to hair loss. (41:16) If you can help your body turn on the right things or provide the right conditions, your body knows how to fix stuff. (42:38) The peptides they put in their skincare products. (49:53) How most people have been brainwashed to believe hair regrowth products are scams. (1:08:02) What to do if you are currently taking a DHT inhibitor. (1:10:58) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Entera Skincare for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save.** For a limited time only, Mind Pump listeners get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump July Promotion: MAPS Starter | MAPS Starter Bundle 50% off! **Code JULY50 at checkout** TB-500 Peptide: Benefits, Dosage & Side Effects - Jay Campbell BPC-157: The Ultimate Healing Acceleration Peptide Regenerative and Protective Actions of the GHK-Cu Peptide in the Light of the New Gene Data GHK-Cu: The Multi-Functional Health Peptide (Clear Skin, Hair Growth, Injury Healing, & More) C60: The Most Important Health Supplement You’ve Never Heard Of Visit Joovv for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest(s)/People Mentioned Jay Campbell (@jaycampbell333) Instagram Website Nick Andrews | Biochemical Engineer Dr. Mark Gordon (@marklgordon) Twitter Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode, Jay Campbell is back. He is one of the authorities you'll find online with some of the best information on peptides. How to use them, what they do for you, where to find them.

Jay Campbell's amazing. We've had other episodes with him. You guys told us, bring him back. So we did. And today he brought Nick Andrews with him. This is a biochemical engineer who worked in biotech in pharma for 20 years. Now, why do we have them both on the show? Well, today they're talking about the truth about hair loss,

how you can actually stop and reverse hair loss with peptides and it doesn't have anything to do with blocking DHT or messing with your hormones like some of the other popular hair loss drugs. In fact, they tell us those are bad for you. And the ones that they talk about are actually pretty good. It's really interesting. In fact, I've been using some of their products

and messing around with them. And I am noticing some effects. In fact, in today's episode, you'll hear them talk about some of these peptides. And they do talk about a hair loss product that combines them. It is unique to them. They did make their own formula, but you can get it and you can get it at a discount through Mind Pump.

So if you're interested, you go to Interest Skincare, that's spelled ENT-ER-A-Skincare.com-Foward Slash-M-P-M, and then the discount code M-P-M gets you 10% off your order or 10% off your first month as a subscriber of some of their products. Pretty cool stuff. Now, as episodes brought to you by a sponsor, Element, this is electrolyte powder, you put in your water, no artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and the right amount of sodium to maximize your performance,

give you the best pumps, give you the most energy. If you're on a low carb diet, you eat no heavily processed foods, you'll probably notice an energy boost from using element. And if you go through our link, drinklment.com forward slash mind pump, you'll get a free sample pack with any order. Now we're also running a sale this month. In fact, this is the final day for this month's sale. So what we have is we

have a beginner strength training program called Maps Starter. It's 50% off. And then we have a bundle, which includes Maps and Obolic and Maps Prime. That's also 50% off. But this is the final day as of the airing of this episode. So if you want to take advantage, you go to mapsfitinistproducts.com and then use the code July 50 for that discount. All right, here comes a show. Jay, welcome back on the show and you brought a friend with you. I did, man. Nick Andrews, one of the smartest people on planet earth. And it's amazing to be here with you guys. I appreciate you. Yeah. So boy, you got a lot to, you got some big shoes of

the building. That is that opening statement. So we did a couple episodes with you, Jay, about peptides. You're, I mean, I found you, I talked about this on the other episodes. I found you online because you're written content on peptide peptide science with some of my favorite. It was some of the best ones that I found online. You're considered an authority in that. And when we asked you to come on the show, you said, I got to bring this guy on because he is, he knows this stuff better than anybody.

So first, you just say that's a big deal. So I'd like to meet you Nick. So what's your background and why is Jay thinking you're just like, you know, everything about this? Thank you, South. So come from a biochemical engineering background education perspective, worked in farm and biotech for a little over 20 years, kind of get tired of the corporate thing. I had already kind of gotten into the health space peptides, you know, due to personal health challenges, probably like most people, right into J around that time.

And, you know, we started building a friendship and, you know, it took off. So, you know, it was an interesting pathway because of the background in pharma, biotech and from an educational perspective. And being on the earlier side of the, side of the peptide revolution, right? Just allowed me to ask some unique insights and you know, meeting some other great people

like Jay and that space and doing some very cool things. Where did you see, like so, like coming from that background and then the increase of popularity of peptides, like what first like interested you like, oh, this is going to be huge or like, what was going through your thought process? Yeah. So for me, it was kind of a process of discovery. What really got me into it was,

I had had a lot of the cartilage in my one shoulder removed from a downhill mountain biking accident and was told, basically, you're going to have a joint replacement by a time you're 40. And I was 30 years old at the time. I knew enough at that point to know that's the wrong answer So I knew there was a lot of stuff out there I'd never gone deep on it really started going deep on pretty much everything like let's their answers Let's go find them. Yeah, and took about two years of just completely gicking out on any avenue I could find that was a potential route and completely geeking out on any avenue I could find that was a potential route. After about two years, home did on peptides and was like, okay, time to be a guinea pig.

So did my homework on individual peptides, looking in pros, cons. You see all the time, not as much anymore, but oh my God, peptides are going to give you cancer. Let's do our homework. Where are the pathways? How does it work? Is that a real concern or is it just noise? And in my opinion, that's a whole not a discussion, but for the most point noise. So ran cycles for about a year and pretty much had almost full functionality back in my shoulder. And put in perspective when I started that whole process, I could maybe do one push up and that's it just because it was going on bone.

Wow. So, okay, so I have a suspicion that because I just started diving in deep into the peptide space maybe over the last year, okay. So before that, I'd heard about it, people had talked about it, I'd heard about things like DPC157 and you know, growth hormone, releasing peptides or whatever. And I largely ignored it because my understanding at the time was, ah, it's kind of gray market,

and then we have supplements that we work with that people can buy over the counter. And so I kind of largely ignored it. Then I started diving in deeper and learning about them, and I said, oh my God, why aren't pharmaceutical companies all over this stuff? My sneaking suspicion is because it's harder to patent them and make it so that you're the only one that sells particular pet. Is that why, because people are here,

some of these episodes about peptides are like, well, why aren't these the greatest, biggest, farma blockbusters? Like, what's the deal? Is that, is that why? Is it because you can't necessarily patent them in the same way? Yeah, that's a major element.

So, I mean, the why isn't really obvious unless you've worked in the pharma industry, then you're like, oh, yeah, of course. It's that sort of thing. If you haven't seen how the sausage is made, it doesn't make sense. Peptides, essentially a long amino acid chain. So amino acids are kind of individual

Lego blocks. A peptide is when you start stacking a whole bunch of them together, and then if you stack peptides together, you get proteins. So that's the simple breakdown of the differences there. With peptides, the vast majority of them, you know, I think it was kind of a couple strings tangled together with branches hanging off. In a lot of cases, you only need a fragment to actually produce the biological effect. If you're a farm accompany at BPC-157, actually, in better example, TB-500, thymus and beta-4, there's always a lot of confusion around that. They're the same thing, are they not the same thing?

No, they're actually not. But that gets directly to this because thymus and beta four is the full length human equivalent molecule that you would find in a human TV 500 is they basically just cut part of that chain off and only took the part that they need that's still biologically active Oh, okay, so from an industry perspective if you're a ph farmer company and you patent and try to launch thymus and beta 4, you're going to spend anywhere from 500 million to almost a billion dollars to get through approval. The second you get approved, I can come behind you and use your filing with a shortened molecule to launch my product for anywhere from 200 million to 300 million.

So from day one, you lost money, you will never make it back. You're fired and you'll never work in pharma again. Wow. I mean, that's kind of like the, that makes so much. The old supplement hustle, right? Where you would, you would create a supplement that was real close to like a, like a steroids. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden they come out, right? You'd run it. People would sell it. They would tell all their friends. They would go gangbusters. Then all of a sudden they come crack down on? You'd run it, people would sell it, they would tell all their friends, they would go gangbusters, then all of a sudden they come crack down on it and say, oh, this is now on the list of illegal. And someone would come right behind that, change it by like a molecule and then run it's

like, well, so for the same game, that's how Patrick Arnold man is living. You guys know Patrick? Yes, yes. 100% oxo. Yeah, Patrick Arnold, he's a good friend. Yeah. He came out with a supplement that was in a room at a sin inhibitor and because it didn't fall under the category of Regulated a room at a sin inhibitors. It was able to be sold over the counter

But it was almost as effective as it was a loophole supplement Yeah, yeah, and the light of the designer steroids at the time That's exactly what they are, but this sounds different this almost sounds like I come out with a supplement that I do what they are. But this sounds different. This almost sounds like I come out with a supplement that let's say it's a multivitamin and it's got creatinine. And people buy it and they're like,

oh, I build muscle. And then another person comes out and says, it's the creatinine that's building muscle. Let's just sell that. Now my product, that's $100 for a bottle. You could sell for $15 a bottle. People get the same result. So in other words, the laws that we currently have,

that protect companies against, you companies against other people copying them, it's almost impossible to create regulations and laws that would protect a former company from competition with peptides. Thus, they're not gonna put them out and sell them and talk about them much because why would they when they are gonna put something out and then someone else can be able to come out

with an active version of it? There's one other thing and he can address this and I'll just put it out there. But as we know, peptides, along with bioregulators, fundamentally treat the root cause. And pharma wants to mandate with symptomology by giving products that don't do that

because then the money trade or the money trade is gone, right? Because now these people can take these drugs, which then create a calvocade of side effects and other things that happen that they can sell more drugs for, whereas peptides and bioregulators are actually literally as he can tell you, we'll cure the issue altogether if used correctly, you know, and surgically precise dosages. I mean, so a good example of that is look at the Hepsie treatment. There are multiple versions that it goes by multiple names, but essentially Hepsie cure. In the US and Europe, they charge anywhere from $50,000 to $30,000 for it.

In India, I think it's like $1,200. When big pharma originally launched that, they actually, there were multiple articles published by the Wall Street Journal and other articles saying, is this a sustainable model? And they took a lot of heat from Wall Street because the barrier you're talking about is a combination. It's the regulatory barrier, which we were just going through, but it's also the financial barrier. So any public company is entirely beholden to Wall Street function.

What's my stock price? Is it going up? Is it going down? So when you spend $500 million a billion to get a product launched, Wall Street's going to say, cool, what's your 20-year earnings on this? And they base that essentially on a subscription model floor all on time, some purposes.

That's exactly what I'm saying. So when they say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is a one-time purchase, we have a problem here. So they will penalize your stock. Yeah. Now and now I want to be just for the audience listening. This isn't necessarily, this is just a symptom of how things work. This isn't the root of all evil. Right. We need investment. We need research. We need profit. However, when you understand the system, then you start to see that, for example, if I'm a pharma company, and I wanna come out with a cancer treatment,

and I know that there's these different types of chemotherapy that have all been approved, I have this type of return, and then I have this experimental potential pathway. I don't know if it'll work, if it's not gonna work, I gotta spend a billion dollars to figure it out. I'm gonna go with this guaranteed return, this is why you see farmer companies

not branching out into more experimental potential solutions because they're gonna look at more like what other kind of opiate can I create? What other kind of, whatever can I create, that kind of does this similar thing that maybe is a little less symptoms and so on. So that I think is important to understand, now why when we're talking about peptides, legit,

if you look and I've been diving deep into this, it's crazy at what they, some of these can do. And as I'm reading about them, I say to myself, why, why isn't this like standard of care? Like what's going on? Like for example, I, I learned this the other day that peptides are not, so drugs kind of force your body to do certain things. Peptides, your body already recognizes in essence and it does what it would normally do when presented with this peptide information. Is that correct?

Yeah, I mean, so think of peptides as a key in a lock. So to open the door to a process running, a healing process or a generative process, whatever one you're targeting, you need a key to open the door to a process running, a healing process or a generative process, whichever one you're targeting, you need a key to open that lock to turn the process on. Right? So your body has its own keys to those locks. You know, it's own endogenous peptides. The molecules your body normally produces. We can mimic those exactly in a lab or whatever variation we want, quite frankly.

When you're using essentially synthetic chemicals, exactly in a lab or whatever variation we want, quite frankly. When you're using essentially synthetic chemicals, they're not specifically target. It happens to why you get all kinds of side effects. And this is also why, generally speaking, while there are certainly exceptions, peptides rarely have any real side effects, because you're copying the body's exact key, and that key only does what it's supposed to. It doesn't go hitting other locks that it shouldn't be opening versus think of like more of a synthetic or chemical drug as just a skeleton.

I've got a skeleton key. It'll open this door, but the problem is it's going to open 20 other doors that I didn't want to open. Oh, that's a great example. So people don't know a skeleton key is a key that opens many, many locks. You want it to just open one, but now you've caused all these other issues. Wow. So it would be, is this a good example? I have chronic pain. I could take an opiate or I could find a way to get my body to produce its own natural opiates. And that would be a very

different process. Okay. And so for example, there, you would have to get into the root cause a little bit, but depending on the root cause. In this example, you can look at something like ARA290. There's a ton of literature on that. There's understood mechanisms for why you can help with chronic pain. You can literally go straight to the root causes. Now, yes, obviously, someone that's going to come from lifestyle, right? In my case, I crashed a frickin' mountain bike, ripping down a mountain. But maybe, you know, you have a predisposition to something or your lifestyle just really wasn't where it should be. You weren't taking care of yourself. So yeah, you got to address underlying factors. Otherwise, it's fundamentally a patch. But if you address the underlying factors that allowed it to come up in the first place, you're regenerating, you're resetting, you're rebuilding.

So it's not a patch. Now, when you first started getting into this, coming from the, you know, kind of, you know, the medicine space, and then you come into this space, and it feels now like it's starting to become more accepted, maybe a little more mainstream. But for a while there, it sounds like it was probably kind of like this gray market, like you got to kind of fight a lot of the, oh no, that's not what works and that's dangerous and don't go there type of deal. So how was that for someone like you? I mean, functionally in the beginning, when I was first getting into it, I know when Jay

was first getting into it, honestly, most people were like, oh, like you're injecting drugs. Like you're living out on the corner with like heroin or something. And it would like, why would you inject something in your body? Like, dude, like I think you need some help. And you're like, but you know, as we've all seen, right? Over the last, especially the last like four years, but even over the last 10 years, people have really started to wake up that, you know, not far, big

pharma is not inherently bad. There's a lot of good things out there. But there are a lot of things that are problematic and there are legitimately alternative paths. And people have become far, far more aware of that. I don't want my audience to get mad when I say this, but it's true. I mean, big pharma has created a lot of solutions, but at the end of the day, as you said, the very beginning of this podcast, it's the origin of the business model that is the problem, where it's for profit or bust. And that is why Big Pharma has created this, but it's really more just, again, a symptom of the endemic causation of how do we create drugs and then keep that drug pipeline going

so that that person can use it for 20 plus years of their life. Yeah, I'm going to go even further and I think I'll I'm going to narrow it down again because I am a unabashed supporter of markets and the big problem I think here is we've created a system where in order to get something to market your initial investment is a billion dollars. That's right. So you have to figure out a way to profit that much or more. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time. It's a complete waste of time.

If the market were different, if the regulatory process allowed for them to take more chances, and I don't know what that would look like, maybe put more responsibility in the hands of the consumer, maybe put a ranking on it and look, your terminal, here's our risky drug, it's up to you. I don't know. But it's the cost of bringing these things to market that makes no sense. I'm a business owner.

If you told me, hey, Sal, here's these things that are gonna work really well. And I'm like, it's gonna cost me a billion dollars to put that out and I'm gonna make a million dollars. And put it out. And put it out. And put it out. And put it out. And put it going to make a million dollars. And put it out. And it's a 50-50 chance it makes it. Yeah, it's a little negative. It makes you put in this space for decades.

How would you do it? If you had the opportunity to do it, how would you do it? So really there are two fundamental pieces. You can't have, we'll say, a net positive pharmaceutical industry that's tied to Wall Street. That doesn't mean it can't be a profitable business. But if you're tied to Wall Street, you are tied to quarterly earnings, you know, what are your projected earnings, and if you're not hitting those targets, you will be penalized. So it becomes a race to the bottom. Whoever's the most ruthless at hitting those

earnings targets, you will be massively rewarded by the market. And you will instantly outcompete everybody, so it forces everybody to play that game. So, absolutely, I'm with you. Free markets, the pursuit of profit is fundamentally a great thing. But the problem in pharma is you end up inadvertently with a lot of adverse incentives. So you would have to come up,

and I'm certainly not a Wall Street guy with some alternative way for them to be plugged into markets, not in the standard fashion. They would probably need certain limits and guardrails so that big money can't come in and not even necessarily intentionally, right? Money just wants to go where it's used, but even inadvertently create all these adverse incentives. Yeah, so I have an idea around that because I remember experiencing this first hand with a family member who had terminal cancer and I remember her diagnosis was terrible. So she had stage four, Linitis Plastica. This is a form of stomach cancer.

Like your survival rate is essentially zero. Okay. And I remember at that point, you're terminal and you still couldn't take whatever you wanted. No, no, no, we can't. And I remember thinking she's going to die. Right, who cares? If she wants to do cocaine every day, she should be allowed to. Like literally.

So not saying that that would be a good idea, but my point was, my point with that was, I can see how the system creates these kind of perverse incentives. So I mean, personally, I don't know if this is a great solution, but I thought a lot about this. And I think I personally, I don't know if this is a great solution, but I thought a lot about this. And I think I would like a rating system like this has this many years of proven, this is this is experimental. It's code red, use at your own risk. And then people

would say, well, you know, I'm more observant. Right. I'm going to go with the cause I'm dying anyway. That's the answer. Allow the consumer the choice. Yeah. And going back to what you just said, it's the Pareto principle in play again. You've got way too many losers in that system. Yeah. And the winners take the lion's share of everything. And then they also garner the, you know, political clout because they're the Pfizer, you know, they're the Gen Tech. They're the big names. And that's where the system is gone unfortunately. Yeah, I totally understand. And then, you know, I know we're going off an attendant, but, you know, there's a, there's an empowered people and then there's disempowered people. And if you keep people reliant independent, well, you have a lot of power.

But when they're empowered, like when they exercise, you know, exactly, and from my understanding with peptides, when you look at the way that they're used, oftentimes, it's like, oh, you use this for a few months and then the things Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. drug. Yeah. Now, why is it, is it because the peptide kick starts or moves things moving in the right way and then you're cool? I mean, for the most part, most peptides are fundamentally regenerative.

Okay. So, and that happens through a lot of different pathways and it depends on the peptide and the tissue involved in various other factors. But if you look at what I'll call most synthetic compounds, most pharmaceutical compounds, they fundamentally can't be regenerative. There are a few exceptions, but generally speaking, an easy example is Adderall, right? So people can legitimately have a situation due to many causes where you don't produce a whole lot of dopamine, right?

So you're going to struggle with those sorts of effects. Yeah, you can take Adderall, right? And you're gonna be on freaking point, but that has a cost, right? You know, there's no free lunch with Adderall, like you'll fly high for a little bit, then you're gonna crash and then you're stuck on it. If you don't take it, you're gonna sit there and go on. Yeah, receptors down, regulate, and your body becomes a sensitizing. I know this because I have a prescription and I stopped it for that exact reason. Yeah, it down regulate and your body becomes sensitized and need more. I know this because I had I have a prescription and I stopped it for that exact reason. Yeah, I will drive. You get on to the peptide side and there are multiple peptides, especially when you start,

I don't know if you're familiar with BDNF. And you start, you know, turning up BDNF once again, more of something is not always better. So you get to understand what you're doing and, you know, work responsibly with your body systems, but you don't need the Adderall. Yeah, anybody who takes Adderall is going to love it, right? But if you use peptides and you bring in diet and lifestyle as well, because that's part of your physiology, how your body regenerates, I've worked with a number of people and gotten them way past that. Yeah, yeah. I'm one of them. I mean, I use Cmax helps you do that for me. I know that raises BDNF. And then of course, lifestyle makes a very big difference for me. And the Adderall itself,

and I started developing bad relationship with it. And I had to stop. It was like, this is a crazy ass drug. I got to get off. And if you look at it, a lot of the typical dopamagenic compounds, methylphenidate, adorol, so on and so forth, a really unfortunate, longer term of effect. They don't tell a lot of people about is it reduces your empathy? Yeah, exactly. So your personality is going to shift over time in a less favorable way. Wow. That's what that's's what he wants to talk about. I don't know.

Do you take out a roll time? I never even take it for solar. That's very interesting. Yeah, these things do shape the brain and shape our bodies. But do you guys actually, I mean, this serious question, do you guys know anybody who's ever not had, or I'm sorry, had an Adiroll prescription that didn't come off of it for the same reason that you're talking about? Yeah, a lot of it.

It does the same thing to everyone. I remember the first, I actually didn't try an Adderall pill until I was almost 40, I was in my mid 30s, the first time I ever try one, and it blew me away. But they give it to kids? Yeah, they give it to kids. They give out that every kid in college today is on Adderall. Nine o'clock in the morning, it fucked my sleep up at night.

Oh yeah. And I was taking a very mild by 15 milligrams. Yeah, right? And when I heard they put kids on the stuff, I know holy shit. This is this is the real deal. Man, that's not. Yeah, it's it's scary to think that, okay, so you're you're someone to call I'd love to ask like, you know, this is a bit of a vague question, but still there's there's hundreds of these things, right?

Are there certain peptides that get you really excited compared to other ones? Is there a group or a class of them that you're just like, this is the Ilnana compared to the other 50 or whatever? There's so many. Yeah, fundamentally at the end of the day, I think to keep it simple, I'll use the name interchangeably. Thomas and beta four, TB 500, but TB 500 and BPC, because they hit so many of your general pathways, even in the brain. So basically, you can almost name dysfunction in the body, and without even Google and anything or looking at it, there's a 90% plus chance I can sit here and just randomly say BPC and TP500 will help that.

Wow. And then we can go jump on the computer and it's going to be like, oh shit, yeah it does. Wow. Wow. Now, BPC, when you take it orally, I know it's supposed to help with gut health, that's how I take it. But does it also have a systemic effect when you take it orally or is it purely for gut health at that point?

So the problem with peptides and this is why they're primarily injection is they are extremely fragile molecules. Once again, a few exceptions, but generally speaking, extremely fragile, you have all sorts of enzymes and other compounds in your mouth and your digestive system that naturally break down peptides, proteins, and amino acids as soon as they enter. So for the most part, peptides are not biologically active to any significant degree orally. Now you have a modified form of BPC 157, the originate, which basically had an extra piece added onto the end of the molecule that allows it to survive passing through the stomach.

That really doesn't tend to be systemic, it does tend to stay in the digestive track. So for somebody with digestive issues, yeah, a great tool. If you're like, dude, my shoulder, my knee, my elbows messed up, it's really... Then you're going to go step by step. Right. Well, so not without naming names, because we don't do that on the show, a lot of the BPC formulations as he and I could tell you are not worth the label they're printing on, because they don't have Arginine in it.

And so when they get into the stomach, they're instantly destabilized and the... Well, that's the pill form when you're talking. Almost negligible. In fact, if you went on Facebook right now, and again, we're not gonna name names, and you went through the ads, and they behaviorally targeted all of us, because we're all peptide users,

and you saw Wolverine or whatever it is, right? And you get this oral capsule, that is if you tested it completely worthless. Interesting, interesting. I've been using the oral with KPV, and I think I've been noticing some pretty positive effects because it's organic. So, that's another legit one.

And so it also depends on how it's delivered. Yep. So you have capsules that dissolve most capsules, right, the standard gelatin ones. Yeah. That dissolve, basically, they start dissolving. And since you put them in your mouth and in your stomach, you have another sort of capsule called interic. Right.

It's a modified type of capsule. So it won't dissolve in your stomach. It doesn't dissolve until it gets into your intestines. So it just releases everything there. So putting KPV in an enteric capsule, honestly, even regular BPC-157, you are going to get some function with the guards of the guard. Okay. Yeah, except notice that some really, really awesome gradual but compounding effects.

Yeah. Oh my god. That's actually a really good way to address gut issues, because it's going to focus almost all of the action right there on the gut. Well, something back to what he said. And, you know, Dr. Gordon, have you guys had Mark Gordon on your guys? We have not, but I'll get him on your show. I'll get him on your show. He's a good friend of mine.

But, he loves a surgically precise dose of what he just said, BPC and TB 500 for all of his TBI military guys, because as he said, it massively addresses brain swelling. And that's what those guys have from concussive blasts and looking into field. So over time, I mean, honestly, he told me, I mean, like those guys should be on TB 500, and BPC 157, like it is surgically precise dose,

like almost if not daily, other day like for life until They're cleared because that's what it is. It's mean swelling Yeah, I mean you look at you know like the combat the military, you know TBI sort of thing Guy comes in from the field and you know whether it's an IED or whatever, you know sort of blasts He was exposed to if just the first thing you did was say, we're basically going to give you a fat dose. There's a couple peptides and you can geek out as to what the best stack would be. But basically, there are two or three different stacks, printing which all of them will include BPC and TP 500. You can get into other things like cortex and cerebral lysine, actually MT1, CMax. So, but without getting into the lead, you hit them with that.

The second day come back and the vast majority of their TBI will never fully manifest. That's right. That's the true. TBI's are like a lot of injuries. Think of sunburn. Look at me, right? When you first come in, even though I may be red as a lobster, the actual burn process is just started. The inflammatory cascade that's going to cause the peeling and all the pain is still actually ongoing and hasn't fully formed yet.

So if you can interrupt that process as early as possible, the full injury, whether it's a sunburn or TBI, never actually develops. Yeah, that's why they've shown studies with people with better fatty acid profiles and aspirin is preventing the actual burn from the sunburn, by the way. So, so those lines. Yeah, Jay didn't believe me when, you know, we were first starting out together. How impressive, for example, GHKCU can be topically. So in the middle of the summer, I purposely went out pretty much all day without a shirt,

got myself lobster red. You know, I have some good, fun experiment I want pictures. Yep, text in the picture. I'm like, dude look, I'm freaking lobster red and This isn't the most cost effective way to prove a point basically slathered myself down in a GHKC UC arm I made just for proving this point and applied it like on one side right. Yeah well everything except for the one arm because otherwise it's really going to suck. But you know I came in the evening slathered it on before bed, got up in the morning, put it on again and put it on about three times a day. And by the third day, no sunburn, no peeling, except for

the one arm, which was like, oh my gosh. I was profound. But you can't talk about, as you know, when we were lectured by our attorneys with our company many times, that you can't talk about the UV protection of GHKCU, because that's a whole other thing. That's a protected regulated area. That's a whole other element of big farmer

that you have to deal with. Yeah, wow. Yeah, really interesting. Okay, well, we specifically wanted to talk about a subject that is another huge market. It's a very, very big market. It's such a big market in fact that the most commonly used drugs that are used to treat what I'm about to talk about were actually initially researched for other purposes, but because this was a side effect that said, oh, the money's there.

Let's go in this direction. And this is hair loss, especially with men. Now the reason why we're talking about this today is, last time I had you on Jay, you lightly touched on hair loss. And the way that we work or try to treat hair loss is through blocking DHT. And you went on a rant about how terrible of an idea that is. So let's start there. The current understanding of Androgenic alopecia

or hair loss is DHT, which is a hormone that your body makes off of testosterone, attaches to receptors in the scalp. Those receptors then can cause hair loss. And if you have more DHT receptors, then you're more likely to have hair loss. If you have less, then you're less likely to have hair loss. Therefore, you want to have hair loss,

block DHT or block the receptors. That's the current accepted protocol. You were saying that's complete bullshit and terrible. Let's talk about that for a second. Why is that not a great approach? So you run into this a lot. So is that wrong? It's actually not wrong.

But here's the problem is they have chosen one little piece of a much bigger puzzle. So when you see that piece of isolation, it leads you to pass, which aren't really constructive because you're ignoring the rest of the situation. leads you to pass, which aren't really constructive because you're ignoring the rest of the situation. It would be like the oil in your car, right? Saying, well, never change in the oil in your car and saying, well, I just add more when I need it and then you wonder why your engine breaks down

when the car is 50,000 miles. Well, if all you ever looked at was oil level and not all the other pieces of the car, you're going to be doing the entire wrong thing. Don't just keep adding more oil. You actually have to change oil and address other parts, right? So, DHT can build up in the scalp. Absolutely, all that is entirely accurate. But here's the issue., you know, we were an article about this a while ago. It's interesting. You can look at infants. You can look at women. You can look at other situations in men where you can show very, very high levels of DHT in the scalp or other areas of the skin that

have a lot of hair or hair follicles. You won't see hair loss. So now the question is why? Well, if you start digging down into it, you find that DHT is not a root cause, it is a contributing factor. So, you know, if I put enough pressure on the DHT pathway, right? You know, DHT suppression, you know, multiple pathways there. Yes, you absolutely show an improvement, but you still have all the other broken pieces underneath that. You're just taking enough pressure off the system so the hair can grow even though the rest of the system is broken. Okay.

So someone is getting worse. Well, I was just gonna say, so someone listening might be like, okay, cool, who cares then? Right. But knowing what I know about the human body, DGT has a lot of effects not just making you lose your hair sometimes. Well being, it's the most powerful,

anabolic cascade of testosterone. And then of course, it offers sexual functioning. So when you crush D.H.T., which obviously any man who's ever suffered from what it's called PFS, right, post-finasteride syndrome can tell you about, it is so bad that it causes massive depression. And a lot of people, and again,

this is in the clinical literature now, have killed themselves from having PFS. They've been lawsuits over the suicide. Yeah, I mean massive. I mean, we've, again, we've written articles about all this stuff, but yeah. I like the look at it as like this. You'd never want to block a God created biological pathway.

When you do that, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. So it's like, oh cool, my hair grew back, but now I'm depressed, I can't get a boner, I feel terrible. And so, okay, so D-H-T, let's talk about that hormone for a second and all the things that it does for the body. Because one thing I know, by the way, you mentioned PFS, finasteride for people who don't know is one of the most popular drugs that blocks or reduces the conversion of testosterone to DHT.

Now you have less DHT. By the way, a lot of people don't know this. If you take Finasteride or do Tastoride, which is another one, and you now have lower DHT, men will sometimes see a rise in testosterone because less of it goes to DHT and yet they're still getting erectile dysfunction and oppression. Just goes to show you that this DHT is that important. You'd have more testosterone still feel, you know.

The biological pathways are very intricate, and again, when you're robbing Peter to pay Paul blocking one to effective another, you're causing downstream effects. Okay, now let's say somebody's like, well, I don't get sexual side effects from it. I don't get these other effects. Are there any health implications from blocking DHT?

You might not see too much later. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, Jay and I have been showing a data set. It hasn't been published yet. Not published. So hopefully before too long in the future. And this has been suggested this may be occurring for a while.

But if you start looking at markers of cellular aging, people who are on DHT blockers are aging at a massively accelerated rate at the cellular level. How are companies like Bosnian so far that's still in business? Because nobody ever tests their cellular markers. There's still. You've only got true diagnostic and like an age and there's now another company coming into the marketplace but nobody knows that. So basically what he's trying to say is if you looked at these guys, Tawamarae's expression, right, which we know the peptides we talked about, right,

in Pitalon and Fimeland actually improve Toulamarae's expression as we get older, but if you look at their Toulamarae's receptors or their expression, it is, as he said, literally degrading their telomeres. Yeah, the other thing too, and this is what a lot of people might not realize, have read other studies on other drugs, and this is what a lot of people might not realize, have read other studies on other drugs. This is why specific studies are so important, because oftentimes it's hard to connect an effect to a particular drug, because you don't necessarily anticipate it. It's like, oh, I'm taking this drug that blocks the acid production in my gut. You would expect potential gastroissue or digestive issues or maybe even digestive inflammation.

You might not expect a higher rate of a certain type of cancer, which I've connected it to for you. Or a higher rate of dementia, which I've connected, you know, some of these protein pump, you know, inhibitors too. So that's one of the examples I'm using. So you could use something that makes your hair grow back and then you wouldn't necessarily connect it to depression. You know, that might happen six months a year later, four years later, type of deal. So unless you study it, you're not going to make those connections at all, especially in a definitely not on large scale.

And nobody's, as you just said, nobody's actually seeing the links or the corresponding data because people are just doing their biomarkers on labs from blood values, right? They're not actually looking at their telomeres. They're not looking at their DNA. Now, again, it's out there. There are testing procedures out there. As he said, the companies that are involved in this are not really ready to go public with the data sets, but they have enough data now to see very corresponding,

excuse me, information that shows that blocking DHT is not good for your biological health. Well, so now let's talk about another popular. So, do you test right, if I'm asked for I'd both of those in that category of DHT blockers. Another comment over the counter anti-hair loss drug is monoxidil. Now, for my understanding, Monoxidil was originally researched as a blood pressure lowering drug. During the research, they saw people grow back their hair and they said, well, this is a better market. Let's go in this direction.

Just like Cialis. Okay, so exactly. Cialis is back to the black girl. Let's be lowering blood pressure. We got boners, forget the blood pressure. Let's go with the one. Okay, so Monoxidil, what does that do to help with hair loss? It's core method of action is to increase blood flow in the scalp, which kind of like

a clogged pipe, right? So as DHT build up, flow is already, so restricted blood flow is a core element of essentially any type of hair loss with a few exceptions. So when you have restricted blood flow, all the normal cellular waste inflammatory products that are building up, your body has processes for flushing them, getting rid of them. But if you don't have enough blood flow, if the pipes are clogged, you can't flush it out. It doesn't matter.

Right. So it's just going to sit there and it's just over time slowly going to you have a little bit of flow. So it's not overnight. But over time, all that cellular waste, which now initiates other inflammatory cascades, just build up and build up and build up. Now you're losing hair left and right. Okay. So, the anoxidil by increasing blood flow is helping to flush those elements out. Okay. Unfortunately, flush those elements out. Okay. Unfortunately, hair loss isn't not just as simple as blood flow.

It's multi-pronged. Yeah. It's shockingly complex when you actually dig into it. Okay. So before we, I want to get into all the pathways that you guys have identified. We've talked about the software and I found it very fascinating. But I do want to full disclosure, I've tried Menoxidil and I don't think a lot of people realize that some people can have bad reactions. Oh yeah. So I used Menoxidil. You might have think a lot of people realize it. Some people can have bad reactions.

Oh, yeah. So I used Menoxidil. You bite over the counter. I thought, what's the big deal? I'm gonna try it. I did not know it could make you feel dizzy, lightheaded, and like, shit, I had no idea. I came to work. I remember I'm talking like, I don't know.

It was wrong with me. Something's not right. I don't feel good. I was talking to my wife. This was like a week of just me feeling like, I think I'm dying. Like, what the hell's going on? And I had to put two and two together and go, wait, this is, this also can lower blood pressure, is this affecting, and I stopped using it was gone.

Try it again, came back. Same thing. You got the same thing from that. Okay. Pretty crazy. All right, so let's talk about the different pathways that contribute to hair loss. Blood flow is one. Yeah, blood flow.

And then, you know, without trying to write a research paper here, you have mitochondrial health. And then you're also going to have the stem cell state in the follicle. So I think it's a little more complex, but you have multiple types of stem cells that are always there living in the follicle, regenerating, replacing. And then you have the overall inflammatory. Yeah, it's about to say, in the environment now, like if you're an outdoor worker, and you're exposed to heavy metals, or really just like harsh elements that gear in the sun, you're not wearing a hat. I mean, that's the micro-inflammations that are occurring in your scalp. I mean, that's taken down your hair.

Okay. This is also what supports the research of why I guess red light therapy is supposed to help. Exactly. Because I have hair loss to them. Improves my eye on real health. So wow, so using that with something like supercharged this, I mean, if you would. Oh, it absolutely does. Dramaticly cool.

So there's actually published work, for example, showing that in this case, I think they were doing it for wound healing, but GHK regenerates lots of things. It's also great for wound wound healing some burns, you know But when you combine GHK so you in red light you get a net You know combined effect that's greater than either one on a toe. Oh, it's just like they amplify each other Yeah, it's just a statistic. Yeah, okay, so you guys And when we talk the last time around the show Jay are like oh, we got this thing It's gonna be amazing. It's gonna change everything. It's for hair loss, just wait till I, you know, whatever.

And now I'm 44 years old. Over the last, I'd say 10 years, I've been slowly kind of losing my hair and it's been getting a little faster, I guess I'm at that age. It's a genetic, right? Yeah, of course. It's part, you know, my dad's almost lost all the ceremony.

Groundfather was bald, you know, his heck or whatever. So I started using it. I'm only going to be using what you sent me over the last maybe three or four weeks. And the girl that cuts my hair is like, what are you doing? And I said nothing to her. She was like, I could tell a different. And what I noticed was the hair loss really slowed down and almost stopped. That's the first thing that I noticed.

So I texted, I remember, I'm like, the hairs you were counting in the shower. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, or my hand. I mean, other stuff. So I texted, Jay, I'm like, what's in this specifically? So I don't want, I want to, let's talk about that. Like what are the,

how are you targeting all these different powders? Here's the guy. What are we, what are we doing here? So it gets to part, so from an approach perspective, 50,000 foot view, is if you look at the overall landscape and what's currently being done, we can go after DHT, right? Like we know that works. If you use Monoxidil or, you know, other like finasteride, you absolutely get hair growth,

right? But now you start to get other issues. So for example, with monoxidil, even if you have no side effects, no negative issues from it, you grow some hair, great. Well, what? Within two to three weeks of stopping to use it, you're going to be obviously losing it. So. And worse, right? Amplified because it attaches to the receptors, and now it's not attached anymore when you stop. So that was Mike's parents.

Careful. I have been years ago. I use like Bosley and all these products and like you know all I would get from is I feel like a little bit of peach fuzz I would get and then when I stopped it felt worse. No it was worse but no that's the biological mechanism of action and that's why we're saying big pharma you know don't hate to play or hate the game right like they've got the greatest game ever. You got to stay on a D H T inhibitor for the minimal hair regrowth if you get it, but you got to deal with the side effects.

It absolutely can get worse because you stimulated new growth without repairing all the underlying pathways. So the second that supporting factor of same anoxidil is gone. All that additional information, cellular dysfunction that had built up, well, guess what? Now it just comes back full force. Nick, let me ask you this too, because I know this with other substances. When you block a receptor or block a fundamental biological compound in your body from attaching to receptor, one of the ways your body adapts is by up regulating those receptors. In other words, one of the ways your body adapts is by up regulating those receptors. In other words, they found this in men as men get older, healthy men get older, their testosterone levels tend to drop, but their angiogen receptor density tends to go up because the body says less testosterone,

increased receptor density. Now your lower testosterone is as effective as the higher testosterone was. Okay. If you're blocking DHT or blocking DHT receptors, does your body up-regulate those receptors to try to offset or try to, you know, to kind of control for that? And then when you go off, now DHT is back with the vengeance and you got more receptors, so it's much worse. I have not personally seen a lot of work on that. There is work that suggests that that is the case. You would expect that to be the case because you see that almost any receptor whether it's testosterone or for dopamine, serotonin.

Okay. You see that. Some of the estrogen AIs, same thing. Okay. So I'm on the right path with that. Absolutely. Because that would that to me would make the most sense why you get a rebound of hair loss than worse than you were when you first started.

Well, again, it's attaching to the receptor, right? So why it's attached, even though as he said, it's not addressing all the downstream issues. As soon as it's not attached, then why would it stay there anymore? Sure. It's kind of like taking, you know, a whole big giant crazy stack of weight loss drugs or intergenic compounds and not really having a good diet, only training a fraction what you should. Yeah, you're still going to get results, only training a fraction, what you should. Yeah, you're still going to get results, let's be honest, right?

And then the second you stop those compounds, it's all going away and you're going to be in worse shape than you were before. People experience that all the time in our space. Okay, so blood flow, mitochondrial health, DHT, are those the three main? So those are the core and then there are subsets under those. So basically to take a step back answering your question. Yeah.

Originally, Jay was, you know, when we started some skincare products originally, he was bustin' my butt. Like, hey, you know, you're a smart guy, you know, some stuff, figure out the hair thing and I was kinda like, didn't, you know, and- He doesn't have a hair ball. Yeah, I got it. I can't give a shit, I can't. I can't give a shit, I can't. I can't give a shit, I can't give a shit. I can't give a shit, I can't give he doesn't have a hair problem. Yeah, I can't give a shit. I know I need my hair, fix it.

Yeah, like hair is not my problem, man. Yeah. I like the sunburns stuff. Pretty much. And he kept poking me about it. So I was like, you know, let me dig into it. And when I dug into it, I'm like, this is actually pretty fascinating.

And it looked, at least in theory, by taking a look pretty quickly, that there are multiple potential avenues you can engage to produce very real effects so that having to get into the DHT game. So, where some stuff made some stuff, and it was like, hey, Jay, try this. And the original version was, you know, it was messy and not user-friendly, more of a proof of concept. But it worked.

But it worked. So now, with the company I just recently started, it's essentially the evolved version of that. So, hey, proof of concept, it actually worked. It worked relatively well for a lot of people. Something important to keep in mind with hair loss is it is very complex. So not every solution works for everybody. I don't care what it is.

You can have some people who rave, for example, about PRP, right? And then you have people who are like, it did nothing for me. Yeah, like, literally, it did nothing for me. And I just dropped five grand. What's up? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a tool, but this gets into the whole

I'm sure you guys know this better than a lot of people the whole end of one concept. Yeah, yeah, right? We are all slightly different biologically from each other. We are not you know cut in pace of each other So what works great in one person is not necessarily going to work great in another and so fundamentally at the end of the day You have to understand that and be willing to adjust to find it works for your system. So, but your approach is let's look at, let's affect as many of the pathways that affect hair loss as possible so we can positively affect as many people as possible. At least that's the way it was communicated. Yeah, essentially an engineering approach, right? So like we have a complex system here. There are multiple things going wrong. If we can avoid it, we don't really want to start

mesmeral hormones, because that's a whole other can of worms. You don't want to open. Okay, cool. Well, there's a lot of other things we can do here. And the cool thing about human physiology, as you guys know, is the majority of the time. If you can give it a little bit of help, your body will start to fix itself.

So that's kind of the core principle really behind peptides is if you can help your body turn on the right things or provide the right conditions, your body knows how to fix stuff. It will go fix stuff. Can we talk about what is what you guys put in this product? What peptides and what they're trying to do? Is it more than one peptide or is it? Yeah, so there are three peptides and then

fullerings, carbon 60. So right now we're keeping as a proprietary formulation as we're working out the IP around it and all this and all that. The one everybody knows because you know at the second you see the color, it's blue, right? GHKCU. That's the one you've been talking about. GHKCU does a lot of things.

One of the really cool things it does, and this is a very bare bones description, is it can actually impact the cell at the level of DNA, switching it from an unhealthy state to a healthy state. And what I mean by that is you got an average Joe sitting on the couch, you know, getting a little hefty, you know, it did actually go to the gym, but I don't feel like it. And like he really doesn't get off the couch because certainly the gym sucks. GHK's the equivalent of coming along,

kicking him in the button, being like, do you get your butt off the couch and go get in the gym? Okay. And oh cool, now he's gonna start his health, his, you know, his appearance, everything, he's gonna get better because he actually got back in the gym, right? GHK does a similar thing actually through multiple pathways.

Okay. So it's like a pro health avenue when it comes to the DNA and maybe mitochondria of the scalp, if you put it on. Yeah. And on top of that, it is also fairly good angiogenesis, creating new blood vessels. So it's actually repairing existing blood flow in the area and stimulating the creation of new blood flow. So hey, you got some clogged pipes.

This is gonna start working to help repair those clogged pipes, but at the same time, it's gonna put in some new pipes. By the way, when you rub this, because some of my ass, like, if you rub it on your skin, is it actually getting that way? This one obviously does.

Yeah. Okay. So, a lot of peptides, most peptides honestly will be absorbed in the skin. The question is how deep. So, can I make a transdermal peptide cream, meaning being absorbed through the skin? The reality is generally speaking, probably not. Once molecules get over a certain size, they can be absorbed into the skin, but not pass all the way through and be systemically distributed. So in this case,

that's actually benefit because we want everything focused on your scalp. I don't want to go on anywhere else. Not that it would cause a problem, right? It would just help improve things other places, but if we're focusing on your hair growth, we want it to all stay here, and that's perfect. So you will see debates and arguments about that. Oh, like peptides don't work topically. Did the micro size? Whoa. What are you trying to do with them?

Are you trying to get a systemic effect, fix your knee, fix your shoulder, whatever it is? Or are you trying to fix the skin? Right. Got it. So I was just going to ask you at first, it sounded like, oh, then this would also seem to work if I had knee pain, but no, because it's not going to penetrate deep enough. So it wouldn't be ideal to rub it on your knee

if you had an injury. It'll help with the hair regrowth underneath your hair. Yeah, that's it. Well, actually, yeah. So the way I originally got into basically peptide skin type products is I was doing a lot of Brazilian jujitsu and judo. And those geese, if you're familiar with them, are, they're mostly freaking sandpaper, they're super coarse.

Yeah, you come out with geyburns all the time, I did it for years. Yeah, my skin's very fair, it's very sensitive. And I was training five to six days a week, and I was getting to the point where the skin on my face was getting worn so thin that I'd be training and feel like I was sweating in my forehead or my cheek and I was sweating blood. My skin was getting that thin. I was like, this isn't cool. So essentially, you know what, I know that dermatologist aren't going to have any answer

but I'll give it a shot. Went through a few and soon as I would walk in, I'd be like, corticosteroids. I don't want to hear the, corticosteroids. I don't want to hear the word corticosteroids, tell me what else you got. And after like the third person, I'm like, nope, I got this. I'd already fixed my shoulder before at that point.

So I'm like, I know there's an answer in the peptide world. Honestly, I don't want to talk about an hour or so of digging and I'm like, oh, GHKCU. So, yeah, at that point, you couldn't get a lot of peptides as easily as you can now. Fortunately, with my background on pharma and biotech, a little easier for me to get some of that. You got the hookups? Yes. So, literally. Yeah. So, you know, I made a phone call, got some sent to me. Just made a super, super simple serum with it, out of about a 3% concentration.

And within five days, it was day and night. Within three weeks, my skin was completely normal. And then a month later, he sent my wife and the rest is history. Wow. Okay, so that's that's GHKCU. And then you said there's a few other, a couple other compounds or peptides in this hair product. What else is in there? So you have carbon 60 fuller ends. So if you look at it, it's a bunch of carbon atoms, in this case, 60, C60, connected to look like a soccer ball. The cool thing about this molecule is that it essentially acts like a super antioxidant.

Think of a soccer ball and think of every point. So you have all the hexagons around the soccer ball. At each of those connecting points, this molecule can take on a reactive oxygen species. So it can absorb waste, but it can absorb an absolutely massive amount of it. It's like a molecular sponge. Oh, carbon. Yeah. So just like when you take, you activate a charcoal.

Exactly. Yeah, just a super fancy effect version of the essential. So basically, so for people that know, you take, activated charcoal would be used forever with poison. You take it, it absorbs the poison and then it makes it inert and you get rid of the activated charcoal and the poison now has no effect. So is that what's happening in your scalp? It's getting rid of the waste making it essentially so it doesn't cause a stand amount of damage type of deal. Correct. It's helping clear out all the

waste that's clogged in the pipes. Okay. And then it's also it's almost dual edged or double in that it also allows for the angiogenic effect of the GHKC. You can even absorb even better into the scalp. Oh, interesting. Now also, if you were sorry to cut you off, but you got my going down a rabbit hole here maybe. If you were somebody who had like a balding in your family, would you be far better off starting using this on a consistent basis than waiting until you're like at my place, right? 100%.

Okay, so this could be like almost like a therapeutic thing that you would just keep in. So one thing that he taught me and educated me on it, and I want like all of your listening audience, because I've been doing it for four years to buy, to understand is this is a scalp health product. It is not something that we put into our hair, and see, and by the way, you know,

because you're talking about men, this works as you know better for women than it does for men, okay? So let's be very clear about that. Your ladies, which you guys have a massive lady's audience, will autoimmune dysregulation, hormonally related hair loss, perimenopausal, premenopausal, postmenopausal hair loss, this product literally stops it in its track. Again, most women's hair loss is due to age-related stuff, anxiety, worry, stress,

they're the maternal, they're always worrying about somebody in the family or the kids or whatever. And so this product massively improves the angiogenesis in the scalp. And really it just improves the health of the scalp. Now one of the issues that we found is that a lot of women will get so excited because they see regrowth fast.

I was telling you guys this, they carry diaries around, right? And they're like literally listing how many hairs they lose per day. And then all of a sudden, this starts working. Amazing. The hair stops falling out, similar to what you experienced. And they're like, more is better. And then they start putting it in through their hair.

And we're like, no, you know, if you have long hair, like most women, you got to get into the scalp. And so that's why we use, and we can get into that. But why we tell people about, you know, microneedling and just... I was just going to come up there. ...getting stuff deeper into the scalp to help scalp. And so that's why we use, and we can get into that, but why we tell people about, you know, microneedling and just getting stuff deeper into the scalp to help it. But to your question, yes, this is a, every day, every other day, health of the scalp product that will strengthen the follicle and improve hair regrowth over time. Now to piggyback off what he said is once the follicle you lost the hair, is there a point of no return? The follicle is dead. That's amazing question. Yeah.

And the answer is actually no. There's been a cure ball. There's still help or hope, huh? But we just did Adam and there is. Please don't light it. I mean, he's so happy right now. No, there's published out research out there that shows that you can read you know the follicles are not actually fully dead and gone. They can be restimulated regenerated. Now in the published research it's not done through the same methods I'm using but that's irrelevant because it's showing that it can be done. So now the question is just how do you go about it? Now what you have to keep in mind though is that that is a very very slow process It's not like oh, I'm gonna fix this in a month maybe to like no no no no no no let's talk more like six to 12 months Oh, well you guys know Richard Cooper, you know, he's entrepreneur and cars got a huge YouTube audience a couple million people But he's like you and we gave it to him, you know, I'd say like you mean bold. Yeah, okay. Not as amazing as you.

Of course. No, Richard's right, you guys will love Richard. He's just one of us. But bottom line is, Chromedom, he started putting on it and remember the, he's got pictures. I mean, he literally grew like half an inch of peach fuzz all over his head.

And then he just shaved it off because he just likes going Chromedom, but he was like, it works. So we know that even guys without active follicles, if they give enough time, and he gave it 90 days, and he was like, that's the most time I've ever grown since I literally started shaving my head. Wow. So we know it does work, but it would take a long time.

It just takes longer. Yeah. Okay. Now, you know, before we get into the other compound that's in there, you mentioned something called micro-needling. So I did learn this on my own. So you guys set me samples. I've been using it. For short period of time, like I said So I did learn this on my own. So you guys set me samples. I've been using it for short period of time.

Like I said, I could tell something's going on. And then I was online reading about, you know, other things people do or whatever. And I kept reading about micro-needling. And you, where they have like this roller and you like roll it over your scalp and then it helps with absorption. Okay, so that's not bullshit.

That's a legit thing. That's 100% legit. So I guess a technical term you might hear in a clinic or something like that is a healthy wound. Right, okay. So one way to, it sounds very counterintuitive, but one way to improve regeneration of almost any tissue is by causing additional injury to it in the proper way. Right, got it.

So you can look at ultrasound techniques, right? It's kind of what exercises, right? Yeah, exactly. Same thing. You put that stimulus, that load on it, and it stimulates your body to regenerate. So you're actually getting a dual effect from things like micro-neiling. So you would micro-neil a little bit, then put it on, and you get a better effect. So that increases absorption. So you're getting more into the the the dermis on the head, into the scalp, and at a deeper level. But you're also causing into the the dermis on the head into the scalp and at a deeper level But you're also causing a healthy injury to help just further stimulate regeneration of the area

Yeah, cuz micro needling by it. This is what I read by itself sometimes Oh, yeah, her regret. Yes, okay, so if someone like me who actually has a juve light too It what help step me through this like I get out of shower I do the micro needling I apply it and then I would sit maybe in there right then in there or a different three minutes three minutes Four minutes just lately massage it in so get out of the shower micro needle with whatever needle size you prefer Apply it and just massage it in and then go sit under your juve light for 15 minutes. I mean if you want to do 15 20, but I mean, most of the guys that did it usually do three to five minutes.

Yeah. Wow. And you can do it twice a day too. You know, you can do it more in the next time. I'm so long, but I do. Well, I already, so I actually, when we first started messing with Juve, I thought that was all bullshit way back one.

And I remember the deeper we went and all the research we were like, yeah, and this actually is super research. And what I noticed, and it wasn't even a purpose, I actually like, I would sit because of you, I'd do my 20 minutes or what I thought, you know, naked in front of my juvenile, I'd be like this, and I'd just be like, looking down. And I would, I noticed this,

this is before I knew that it would did that for my house, I was like, dude, I feel like my hair is just getting wet. And then sure, shit, I think Sal was the one who went in, and he's like, bro, actually it actually shows that it's supposed to do that. So I already see some of the benefits from that. I can only imagine combining the two of them. The Super Stack, yeah.

Also to optimize mitochondria too, we talk about this. So we created, you know, a stack and, you know, send it out and I'll send it to you guys and stuff. But you, you know, metformin, again, massive mitochondrial operation. So, and anything that's gonna get rid of, I mean, not systemic, but topical inflammation in the scalp.

Okay. So, like, and as you told me, dude, hanging upside down, if you hang upside down in attraction thing for 10 minutes a day, or even do it twice a day for six or seven minutes, that will help too. I'm just taking upside down

with the juice light hitting on my head. Bro, you're moving, aren't you? How do you, you're doing all here. How do you do it? How do you do it, bro? You kind of want to cut it off a little bit. I mean, that feels good traction on my spine anyways. Remember, kill two birds once a day. I mean, it feels amazing to be in the zero gravity.

Yeah, it does. Yeah. Yeah, the challenge with all those things Jay just touched on is anybody who's going down that rabbit hole is keeping perspective, right? Because it's easy to get lost in the weeds. There are legit oral supplements you can take that do support hair growth.

Absolutely. Are they going to regrow your hair overnight? Will you even notice anything on those alone? It's permitting. Probably not. But you have to look at the system as a whole and the cost benefit for you. So if you're like, hey, I'm Mr. Fitness,

I'm Mr. Optimization, I have every single one of these tools and every single one of those supplements, my cabinet, and I already take 50 supplements a day, cool, do it all. Yeah. If you're more of an average dude, you're like, what's a red light? You know, what's a red light? What's gonna make the biggest impact?

Yeah, it's basically what you're saying. Well, it's also very, very important that we say this and he always would push me. And in the beginning of our company, we did do this. Very honestly, we made this mistake and we went out there and raved and said, hey, it works in the majority of users, right? Because that's the feedback that we got.

I'll tell you who it doesn't work in. It does not work in people who are dumpster fires. Okay. Basically, let's just be really honest. I mean, again, another one, if you're like super unhealthy, what you're saying right here. Next showed me the research. And let's just put it honest. I mean, again, another one, if you're like super unhealthy, what you're saying right here. Right, right.

And let's just put it this way in the most simplistic terms. That, and peptides in and of itself, like they imitate the cellular health of the end user. So if you are inflamed obese, you know, pouring sugar and alcohol into your body at high rates, it's not gonna work. I'm actually really glad you said that because this is how we talk about any sort of supplement or thing that you take.

Or even fitness. Like, working out. It's like you, these people think that you're going to take this, this, you know, creatine or protein powder or anything and they're like, come on, bro, you're trying. Yeah, and you're doing all this other shit, you know, I'm saying? And it's just like, well, come on. I mean, like all those things are great and valuable, but I mean, take care of the big rocks first. Like take the bad shit out.

No, it makes so much, we hear this with fitness. So if I lift weights once a week, that'll speed up my metabolism enough to where I can eat like 85,000 pounds. Right, right, right. Not that much. Not that much, but two.com packs of that. Okay, so you had the GHKCU,

you talked about what was the carbon- Carbon 60. Carbon 60, and then there's something else. Yeah, and then there are actually two other content. Oh, two other content. One is a biotin. It's a short peptide chain with biotin attached to it. I see shampoo's a biotin, what is that?

Yeah, so biotin is used in multiple processes in the body. It is actually a key molecule for hair health and hair growth. You do normally have it in your diet and you'll see a lot of mixed stuff on bytin. Some people say, and it does nothing. And others say, hey, it does amazing things. That's where you get into what's your health state. What is your end of one? How does your body operate?

So the bytin peptide is doing two things. It does have its own regenerative mechanisms, very, very similar to GHKCU. That's primary overlap from that portion of it, but you're also by having the biotin attached to it, you're also helping directly deliver those systems while you're regenerating them. An interesting effect, you do get in some people, you know, we don't market this because it is more of a variable effect. But in some people, it will accelerate the reproduction of pigment. So, hey, I'm starting to go gray, I'm starting to go white.

Like in my family, we don't go gray, we just go white. My sideburns, like I'm one more white than I wanted. So, you know, I tested it on myself. Like we saw it on Jay when Jay was running. I mean, my hair is a lot darker using this problem. You know, once again, but, you know, Jay's just to be blunt and, you know, better overall health than I am, but, you know, I'm in pretty good health as well. Within two weeks, I was just using on my sideburns every morning after the shower. I was like,'m like holy cow. Well interesting. So we don't promote that but it is a noticeable effect and women who take the product see their hair dark and go To their natural route. I noticed that from supplementing with copper actually my copper. Well that's the GHKC you right there. Oh, okay. Yeah, so the copper alone The GHKC you alone a lot of times won't do it, but when you combine it with biotin compounds,

you start to see that far more often. Really, okay, yeah, because I got a, we have a functional medicine practitioner we work with, it's phenomenal, Dr. Stephen Cabral. We did this whole like test panel, whatever, and my zinc and copper were way off. So I started supplementing with a selenium copper

supplement, whatever, and my hair got darker from it, as well. And I didn't make all the grays go away, obviously, but it did make a bit of a difference. Salt and pepper. Yeah, cool. Okay, so, and then you were said there was one more. There's one more. So, keratin genesis occurs in the base of the follicle.

It's one of the key pathways of growing hair, maintaining its health, and the health of follicle. Over time, that process can start to go off track for any number of reasons. From age, from inflammation, build up, that related to DHT, right? Restricted blood flow. So there is an additional peptide in there that stimulates and helps rebuild that pathway. Awesome. So how excited are you guys about this?

Because this market is massive. I mean, if you know, and look, we've tried it, we experiment with it. I have family members that have been using it. And it's only been a few weeks that I've, so I had before you guys even sent us samples, I told them. So they went out and bought it on their own. And it's been like three or four weeks. And I have my brother and a friend of mine, and a cousin using it. And all of them are like, oh, this is kind of weird, I think it's, yeah.

That's working! Well, that's the, but it's only been a few weeks. But that's okay, but that's something that, so there's two things we've ever got to hit before we end this podcast, and that is, what you just said is critically important. Most people have been conditioned and trained, let's just call it brainwash,

to believe that hair regrowth products are scams, right? So like to even see results, they're like, whoa, this is something's weird here, bro, because I think it's working. That's what they're saying. And then the other thing, and this is probably even like even more mission critical is to understand that it's not, as he said,

going to work for every single person out there. Okay. And again, depending on your cellular health, you're going to get a better effect technically or theoretically if you have good cellular health. So if you're a normal mind-pump listener, and I know you guys have a lot of people who do take great care of themselves, this product is definitely going to work. Okay.

Good. Yeah. Full disclosure, the people that I mentioned are all pretty fit and healthy. Of course. I think what I'm getting from this too, especially when you share it all of the stuff with peptides and just like how it's a natural key to the body, it's like this is not like a drug

that you can have all this adverse effects. So to me, I see tremendous value in even more than myself and we're joking and teasing about me, but like people like Sal and Doug who are like, still have a lot of their hair and thinning just as a practice of just like you should just this should be part of your 100% washing your head. I'll give you an example. It probably won't be until first quarter of 2024 or so, but you know, we will ultimately be launching essentially either a shampoo or conditioner. I can ask for for exactly that point. Yeah. And you know, to your guys point, I'll give you an example, right? Obviously, I have no issue with hair. However, my son, you know, he's

a teenager, but look at his grandfather. His grandfather was bald when he was like 25. So the reality is, and he's even asked me, he's been like, so dad, if I start having an issue, it's worked for me. I was like, yeah,, like honestly, I told them, like, if I even thought I started to see an issue, I would get you started on a shampoo or conditioner. That way, just never becomes an issue. Just two or three times a week, put this in your hair. So what we'll probably do is actually women are more used to this than men, but a leave-in overnight conditioner. So, you know, do your normal shower routine, wash your hair, you know, whatever your shower routine is, then right before you get out,

just kind of squeeze all the water to your hair, then, you know, work this into the scalp primarily. And then just get out, dry off and go to bed. Everybody's got to remember it's a scalp health product. So you got to get into the scalp. Now, one other thing, it just hit me, and I didn't want to forget, because you were the one that reminded me.

So for all the guys out there that are on finasteride, they're on minoxidil, they're on due test right? You don't just go off for it. They're hearing this now and they're like, oh shit, right? So it's like, what do they do? And obviously Nick and I, it took us nine months to develop this program. I mean, we have theories that we could do it right away, but we wanted to work with people.

So this is what you do. You basically continue on with your DHT inhibitor, whatever it is, again, propitia, I mean, yeah, propitia, which is finasteride, dutasteride, or monoxidil, but you separate your application so that one is in the morning and one is at night. And meaning the second application is this product, right?

And again, and by the way, the product is called Follatin, but you would do that until your scalp health improved enough, which is normally what, two to four weeks, that you can now stop the DHD inhibitor called Turkey, and what won't happen, which they're all used to, which you experience, you experience, and I experience, is it won't fall out now because the health of your scalp has improved so much from the Follatin,

the peptide-based products and the angiogenic effects that killing the DHT but her cold turkey will not cause the hair fall. So take one in the morning, one at night, do this long enough to where, like, okay, I've done this now for a few months, now I can start. I don't even think you have to go a couple months. I don't even think you have to go a couple months.

I think we found most of our users after four weeks they could kill it. So after four weeks they go off and then they're all there. Yeah, and even then then the general broad suggestion would be ease off over a week or two. Couldn't have. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have another question because, you know, I, having trained so many clients, I remember a lot of female clients would complain about hair loss in their eyebrows. I had male clients who their beard was was this is work on other parts of the body. So it actually does. So, you know, I have a small group of both men and women that, you know,

I have test drive of any of my products for me. And they've all used it like that just because like, hey, kind of like you're thinking, right, well, it's working on my head. What else is that gonna work on? Now ultimately we will be having the biology does begin to differ a little bit once you get off the head Okay, so it does work Ultimately, we will have formulations targeted specifically to that okay, just so it's like eyebrows a big one now Now it is because the style for eyebrows changes when I was young, it was like thin eyebrows. Now it's thicker. Now it's thicker and some women plucked the hell out of the eyebrows to the point where now it's like it doesn't grow back. So one of the

women who test products for me, she plucked her eyebrows for so long she ended up just getting them tattooed on because they they wouldn't grow anymore. And but she's still one of them thicker than the tattoos were. And she's like, I don't want to do that, because if I don't want to go back, I kind of get an issue. So she's like, is this going to hurt me if I rub it on my eyebrows? I'm like, no, I'm like, I won't guarantee you it's going to do anything. And I get a call about two weeks later, like, holy cow,

I'm going to take a picture and show you my eyebrows. I'm like, okay. Yeah, well very cool. Well, this sounds very interesting. And like I said, I've had people experiment with it. I'm using myself, fascinating, fascinating stuff. So appreciate you guys coming on the show and follow Tens of the other product.

And I think we'll set people up at the link so they know where to get it. If they want to get a show. Thank you guys. Thank you guys, Matt. I appreciate it always. For sure. Thank you. Thank you guys. Yeah, thank you guys. I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

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