Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2141: How to Build the Glutes & Hamstrings When Nothing Seems to Work, the Importance of Adjusting Caloric Intake Based on Activity & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pupp, right? In today's episode, we answered live caller's questions, but this was after a 66-minute introductory conversation where we talked about fitness, current events, family life, and much more.

Starting point is 00:00:29 By the way, you can check the show notes for timestamps if you want to skip around to your favorite parts. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us your question at live at minepumpmedia.com. As the episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Magic Spoon. This is a high protein cereal that you can enjoy. It tastes like the cereal you ate watching Saturday morning cartoons, except it's very, very high in protein,

Starting point is 00:00:57 way protein in particular. Check them out. Go to MagicSpoon.com-flour-slash-mind-pump. Use the code MindPump and get $5 off. This episode is also brought to by Intera Skincare. We did a recent episode with Jay Campbell. We talked about peptides for hair growth, okay? Very interesting episode.

Starting point is 00:01:17 They have a product called Fallatin. I've been using it. I think it's actually working. It's pretty remarkable. And it does help stop hair loss and help reverse it. Anyway, if you're interested, go check them out. Go to enteraskincare.com. That's ENTRASKINCARE.COM-FORWARD-LASH-MPM.

Starting point is 00:01:37 And on that link, you'll get 10% off your order or 10% off your first month of your subscribe if you want to sign up for a subscription. Also we're running a sale right now. Maps and a Bolic Advanced is half off. 50% off our strongest muscle building program. Go check it out. Go to anabolicadvanced.com and then use the code August 50 for that 50% off discount. All right, here comes a show.

Starting point is 00:02:03 Teacher time. And it's T-shirt time. Oh, shit. Oh, you know it's my favorite time of the week. We have six winners this week, three for Apple podcast, three for Facebook. The Apple podcast winners are Emma Ash Jane, Oprah follower, one, two, three, and NK 14, 14. And for Facebook, we have Nick Degner, Haley Neiman,

Starting point is 00:02:27 and Rob Prendergrab, Gast, all six of you are winners. And the name I just read to iTunes at MindPumpMedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address. And we'll get that shirt right out to you. Today's Fit Tip goes out to all of you in the health, fitness, and wellness industry. Don't miss the forest for the trees. Make sure you communicate in effective ways. Don't turn people off. Don't alienate the average person. It's easy to get health and fitness people to level up.

Starting point is 00:03:00 It's really hard to get the average person to take that first step. Remember that when you talk about your health and fitness and wellness advice. I have a feeling I know what this is in regards to. Don't major in the minors. Yeah. Well, so you know, it's interesting because I mean, for all intents and purposes, the health, wellness, fitness, and performance space, which I guess you could loosely categorize, right? Like the whole space into those four categories. They, we failed, completely, we completely failed

Starting point is 00:03:32 at really helping the average person. People are sicker, people are fatter, people are just getting worse and worse, both mental health is worse and worse, physical health is worse. Like for all intents and purposes, if it's health, the average person is just way behind the eight ball.

Starting point is 00:03:48 We are. And I like to take responsibility for this failure. I know it's easy for us to look and say, oh, it's not our fault, we're trying. But what we're doing is not working. And one of the things that we do that is detrimental is infighting. Lots of, you know, you're not perfect enough or, oh, I know you said that exercise is

Starting point is 00:04:12 great, but it's not functional enough or, yeah, you gave that fitness, that dietary advice, but, you know, that kind of food also isn't perfectly organic or raised in this particular way. And so a lot of this infighting happens and we end up losing the battle. And the average person hears this and what they hear is, they go into it and say, I think I'm going to start exercising once a week. And then they hear people talk about how it's waste of time. Waste of time working out once a week. You should work out every single day, otherwise,'s waste of time. Waste of time working out once a week. You should work out every single day, otherwise, why waste of time?

Starting point is 00:04:45 Or they say, you know, I think I'm gonna like, I'm gonna just cut my calories for now. I'm gonna kinda start that way. And then they hear a bunch of people be like, you know, calories don't matter. Everything's about eating the most perfect foods or whatever. And it's like, so people just get turned off. It's like, well, I'm wasting my time.

Starting point is 00:05:01 Well, I haven't even tried. And that only confirms the fact that I failed so many times. Maybe it is that I just can't do everything, right? So I'm wasting my time. Well, I haven't even tried. And that only confirms the fact that I failed so many times. Maybe it is that I just can't do everything right. So I'm gonna give up. There's a hilarious short or real, maybe Dylan could look it up and put it in the show notes because I think it's so great. And I don't know who did it first.

Starting point is 00:05:20 I've seen a couple people remake it since then, but it cracks me up every time I see it. And it's basically somebody making a video and it splices to like Paul Saladino giving advice, like Max Lugavir giving guys, Paul Cheggett, all these like big, you know, health and fitness influencers. And they're like, it's like, it's like, stay away from vegetables.

Starting point is 00:05:39 Okay, and like, it's like a guy getting ready for like to eat something in the morning. And he goes right before he goes to bite it. It clicks to like one of the influencers that are telling him like, that's unhealthy for you. It's like by the, it's like six to four vice. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:54 I think that's actually how it ends. I think he ends like eating like ice cubes is like the last thing that he ends up eating. So this is all come. So this is where this all comes from, right? So Max will give you a good friend of ours. First off, I want wanna say this about Max. He's, everybody we're about to talk about are good people in the space.

Starting point is 00:06:09 100%. And they're all good people in the sense that they all genuinely wanna help people. We know these people personally. And to our knowledge, to the best of our knowledge, they're all like real, authentically caring. They wanna help people, okay? And they all have different strengths.

Starting point is 00:06:24 And one of the strengths that Max has is Max does a damn good job of getting the average person to kind of pay attention to certain things. He does a really good job of this. He's actually one of the best communicators in this sense. So what he does is he does his post where he talks about how, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:41 well, if you're in a pinch and you don't have a lot of money and you're gonna eat McDonald's, did you know that you can order, like what is it off the menu or whatever where you could just order patties, just order meat patties. Basically a pound of meat.

Starting point is 00:06:55 Yeah, so that's what it is. He gets in the drive through. It's like $8 or something. Yeah, he orders four quarter pounder patties plain. And he eats, and he's like, this is not the best meat. He goes, but it's in a pinch, it's a better option. It's protein, this, patties, plain. And he eats them. And he's like, this is not the best meat. He goes, but it's in a pinch. It's a better option. It's protein.

Starting point is 00:07:08 This that and the other. And then now what happened was Paul Check, who for all intents and purposes is the Godfather of the wellness space. I mean, literally I'll say, if it wasn't for Paul Check, wellness as we know it probably wouldn't exist. This guy's, he's a God in the space, okay. But what he did is he did one of those like-

Starting point is 00:07:25 Strong Steven. But he's just, a lot of the stuff you hear now, wellness that we take for granted, he's been saying for decades, my point. But anyway, Paul does a video where he's listening to this clip from Max, and then he's basically talking about how McDonald's patties are so terrible. You should not be promoting them.

Starting point is 00:07:42 They're so bad for you, so toxic. And then the comments starts this whole thing. Our friend Josh Trent gets in there, talks about how dare you essentially promote McDonald's meat because it's so bad and this and that. And it's the whole time I'm looking at it, I'm like, man, you guys are missing the big picture. Like what's happening right now is your fitness

Starting point is 00:08:02 and health enthusiasts are intently listening. The average person who's 99% unhealthy, like everything they do is just not great for them, has just got turned off. They heard Max say you could just order a bean and they considered it for a second, right? They're like, yeah, maybe I'll do that because I do go to McDonald's every day.

Starting point is 00:08:20 And you know, that might be a better step and I think I can do that. And then they heard also this stuff like, oh, it's waste of time. They also think it's toxic. I might as well go with what I've been doing. It's like, this is too confusing, and that's that. And that's too bad because the average person,

Starting point is 00:08:35 just we just got to get them to take like one little step. We can't, that's it. We got to do that first. We can't make, what is it, perfect? Be the enemy of better? Well, this is where it gets tough because we start to get in a bubble. And we start really like proselytizing and speaking in a way where this is the ultimate perfect way to operate and to function.

Starting point is 00:09:00 And we tend to lose a lot of people along the way because like you said, it becomes confusing, it becomes like, well, it's frustrating because there's all of these things that you have to tackle all of it once. And so like for your average person, they'll just see that as like this laundry list of items they have to tackle before they even can step inside the gym. And it's frustrating because these are all very, very smart people that have got to a level where they've gotten because of all the research and all of the ways that they've found optimizing human body and brilliant in that regard. But in terms of being able to invite people and to allow them to take baby steps.

Starting point is 00:09:45 That's really where we see that as kind of our mission is, you know, from being personal trainers and trying to connect with our clients and being relatable. We can't lose that relatability. And I think that's something that is lost in the post like this. So I know all three guys really well. And like totally know exactly where each person was coming from, so it's an interesting perspective, right? So first start with Paul.

Starting point is 00:10:12 I love Paul the death, but Paul probably has to have his wives help him turn the Instagram on to know how to even use it. And he's told, and he knows that he has to be better about self-promoting. And so he's got a team of people that are helping him like, hey, these are what people are doing reaction videos. Like he has no idea what he's doing. I swear to God, like that guy,

Starting point is 00:10:33 he's so deep into reading and research and social media is not his thing. So he's literally just being told like, hey, do these things and it'll go viral. I'm sure Max's clip was given to him to do some sort of reaction video to it. So he, I don't even know if he knows Max really well or not, but his intent, I'm sure isn't malicious. And he'd probably, if he knows, if he knew Max's true intent,

Starting point is 00:10:58 I'm sure that he would actually support most of what everything that Max says. So that's his perspective. Then you have Max, who's a really good friend of ours who communicates very similar to how we do, right? Like Max is the guy who talks about final chemicals on receipts and in your hair and so that. So he's definitely not somebody who would promote eating garbage, he promotes grass fed beef all the time.

Starting point is 00:11:24 But I also know that we've been asked in a position before or been in a position where someone's asked us, well, what I do if I can't afford whole foods, or, you know, and they think that you can't eat healthy unless you're eating all these really expensive organic foods. And so I know Max, the reason why he made that video was to explain to people like, hey, even if you only had eight bucks, you could literally hit your entire protein intake in one drive

Starting point is 00:11:49 through meal. That's basically the message that I think he's trying to present, but it's not, you know, it's in short form. So it goes, and then Josh, I know Josh really well. And I know that he's, he comes from our background from the big global gym type atmosphere. He's a once bro guy who's definitely dove headfirst into the wellness fear and is really trying to promote that message that it's more than just macro calories

Starting point is 00:12:13 and counting, and he doesn't know Max probably very well at all, and so he jumps to conclusions on what that whole message is about. So, you know, welcome to social media. I mean, that's really, this is why it's such a fucking cesspool, dude. It's so awful. on what that whole message is about. So, you know, welcome to social media. I mean, that's really, this is why it's such a fucking cesspool, dude. It's so awful. It's like, here's three people who I have a lot of respect

Starting point is 00:12:33 for all three of them. I like them a lot. I know them really well. And they got themselves all cut up in a big circle jerk, not even realizing, like they all probably agree. And they don't even realize that all of them probably had the right intent and then probably turned off more people than they turned on by that entire post.

Starting point is 00:12:52 Yeah, it's like one of the main strategies if you're trying to beat a message or let's say win a war, okay, is to create or foster infighting among the other side. And this is where messages get lost. Cause if you took, I'll tell you something right now, here's what's, here's what sucks about this whole health space, which is like, like I broke it down, but let's just say that's the big sphere. If I had a power lifter, a body builder,

Starting point is 00:13:23 a functional medicine practitioner, a doctor with integrity, so like a Western medicine doctor, an acupuncturist. I don't know who else we would put on there, a fitness influencer, put them all in a room. They would all start fighting and arguing with each other. The irony of it is all of them want to help the average person become healthier, and all of them have some value. Okay, they all have some value to present, but we end up not moving forward because somebody goes on social media or tries to read up on something and it's all this infighting.

Starting point is 00:13:59 It's this bodybuilder saying that that type of training is terrible because it's not going to cause as much hypertrophy and hypertrophy helps with insulin sensitivity blah blah blah blah and then this will person well that's not functional You're not training functionally. You're just trying to build big muscles and now you can't move right You're not doing split stance exercises and you're not doing this and then another person jumps is you guys don't know What you're talking about all this focus on strength training and you're not strength? You're not working on calming down the central nervous system with Relaxing and resting and then someone else jumps in and says,

Starting point is 00:14:27 you guys are eating too many calories. And then the person comes in and says, it's not about the calories, it's about food quality. And someone else says, but the animals are not raised right. And there's too many antibiotics. And then everybody's like, you know what? Turn it off. Forget it.

Starting point is 00:14:39 Yeah. I'm gonna listen to the news. The news tells me. Well, me and Audrey, and then while, it reminds me of, yeah, like, what am I relative to me? I'm like, all excited because they switched from soda to diet soda. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:50 Where do we put them in this conversation? You know, where are you just gonna alienate them and make them feel like shit that they're not even trying? Well, the truth is that most our clients that were starting their health and fitness journey, you know, subconsciously are looking for an excuse to quit. Totally.

Starting point is 00:15:10 I mean, like all you need is an excuse. That's inside. We go too. And nothing gives them a better excuse than the health people disagreeing or arguing and fighting with each other or coming off pretentious. And so it's a quick turn off. I mean, I met a lot of people that are like, oh, I don't, that's spaces in for me. And so it's a quick turnoff. I mean, I met a lot of people that are like,

Starting point is 00:15:26 ah, I don't, that's spaces in for me. I don't want to be like this. Everyone's vain, everyone's this. And it's just like, oh man, it's so unfortunate that we've done that. But I don't know, I mean, at the same time too, I only get so riled up because I also realize, I mean, when we got together eight years ago,

Starting point is 00:15:41 like that was, we saw that. Yeah. We knew that, you know, that was like very tribal. Yeah, we knew that there was an opportunity to be a voice for all of these different camps, you know, to be able to talk about all these different diets, all these different training modalities and share with people, all the pros and cons of all of them. Yeah. And to not marry one single ideology and communicate,

Starting point is 00:16:07 which is exactly the conversation that we used to have with clients, because how many totally, right, your clients would come to you. And they would say, oh, I read them back then. It was before social media for us. So I was like, oh, I read this book on this, I heard this and that. And I told you this, or Dr. So-and-so said this.

Starting point is 00:16:23 And so, most of my career was spent unpacking this and that. Dr. Oz told me this or Dr. So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So-

Starting point is 00:16:23 So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So-

Starting point is 00:16:31 So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- So- doesn't mean everyone or it's the end all be all and it, but here's these other things that totally contradict that,

Starting point is 00:16:46 that also have some value too. This, by the way, some humility, okay? Just straight up. Like we totally messed up a lot when we first started as trainers. And this is the main way that we screwed up. This right here is the big way that we screwed up. It's that we were playing checkers

Starting point is 00:17:06 when you need to play chess when you're trying to help the average person accomplish lifelong health and fitness. So what's checkers? Well, somebody sits in front of me and says, I only have 30 minutes a week to work out. That's not enough. You gotta make more time.

Starting point is 00:17:20 If you make more time to exercise and you have more energy, then you'll have more time on the rest of the day. It'll make you a better mom or make you a better dad. You'll be a better person blah, blah, blah. And I do this whole big speech. And then either A, I convince them to over apply themselves. And then if they fail or B, I turn them off completely. You lose. What's chess? Chess is how can I eventually get a checkmate? How can I get this person down the path? So then it became this. I only have 30 minutes to work out during the week.

Starting point is 00:17:47 Awesome. Let's figure it out. Let's do a 30 minute workout. And then I know if I do a good job that that 30 minutes, that person eventually will say, I think I have another 30 minutes. Or let me talk about, maybe I can do something with my diet.

Starting point is 00:18:00 And this strategy, what's funny about this by the way, I'm saying is that the three of us, as trainers, we all figured this out on our own. It was the biggest shift. It's what turned me from a trainer who was just good at selling training to a trainer that eventually got people to really accomplish this and be able to do this long term.

Starting point is 00:18:21 It was patience. It was communicating in particular way. It was focusing on the big picture, not all the small details, not again, making perfect the enemy of better. But we all screwed up like, you know, many people I totally turned off to, to health and fitness because that was me. It's a down and so. So how do you to reconcile then when we come after something say like group training? So hearing everything to the spiel that we just went on about what we just called our friends out for doing and not wanting to turn them off, how do you reconcile the moments today that we have

Starting point is 00:19:06 where we say something like, group training should die. I think we had a good example of that with a life caller who called in and kind of presented the fact that she, this was literally the only way she would go to the gym. Right, and it was- And do something.

Starting point is 00:19:19 Yeah, do something. And it's like, this was opportunity for her to get excited to move. And this was just like her comfort. And like, so I think for us, it's nobody was really talking about the somewhat problematic ending of like staying in that group class setting for too long. I just don't think that was being presented enough. And so I think it, we kind of took it upon ourselves that to provide a thought,

Starting point is 00:19:50 a thought of like, well, okay, maybe this is your entry point, but it's not going to be beneficial for very long. Yeah. What about you? Yeah. No. So the context, thank God we have a long form podcast because this is all, first off, you have to be honest. So when you're communicating something, you're not gonna say this is perfect. What do we always say about group fitness?

Starting point is 00:20:11 Look, some movement's better than none. If that's what gets you to go, then that's fine. Here's what you're probably gonna run into though. And here's probably, these are gonna be the drawbacks. And this is why you're gonna have to probably figure out how to move from that into a different kind of training. And then we list why. But it's not like, we're not telling them like,

Starting point is 00:20:31 no, this is a horrible idea. Yeah, like, well, I also, so I'll tell you how, like I've thought about this, right? Because I've, of the three of us, I probably have come the hardest on. That sounded really bad. Yeah, well, not you stopped. Yeah, actually, I was saying that. I was saying it was not.

Starting point is 00:20:45 It sounds like it was. It was going to sell worse as they came the rest of it. Because it was already. Oh really? Yeah. I'm back. I was like, Oh, that's not going to go well. Okay.

Starting point is 00:20:54 It was a stop that where it's. So I'm the one who gets after the group training classes, probably the hardest. And here's how I feel is that I feel really passionate about saying something when the client or the person I'm trying to help is doing way more than they need to or making it more difficult for themselves. And that's what and they don't realize it or recognize it. It's like you're hammering yourself in this class. Like, yeah, okay, you could do that.

Starting point is 00:21:23 If that's all I get you, motivate, but let me tell you, there's a much easier pathway than that way. Granted, just like you said, the example you're giving us, we did just have a caller recently and I did start it off with like, listen, what I would do with you is because you've admitted that that's the only way you'll come is to have this group class and community that I would start you there and then I would slowly start to wean you off of that and transition you into training by yourself. And then we all went around and gave tips.

Starting point is 00:21:51 But the way I reconcile it is that it's your you're doing way more than you need to in order to see the same or better results. And that's why I think I feel so passionate about it's like somebody if you saw somebody who was just like stressing out about macro counting and weighing and doing most of it's I feel so passionately about. It's like if you saw somebody who was just like stressing out about macro counting and weighing and doing most of it's like, that stuff's not bad. Like I mean, I did a lot of that for, but if I saw someone like stressing out over that

Starting point is 00:22:13 and putting so much effort in it, it doesn't have to be that hard. Like literally just avoid these things or just count your protein in like watch. You'll have a much easier time, weightless, stressful and you'll probably see better results that way. So I feel passionately about the advice out there that's given that is just over complicating or making it more difficult for these people and just adding more stress to them. That's kind of how I feel. Yeah, I think that's a great point. Yeah, totally. I think that's

Starting point is 00:22:38 a totally great point. No, I think that there is no, there hasn't been, I should say, a unifying voice in the space. There just hasn't. And hopefully that's what we're trying to do as much as possible. So we've tried to do as much as possible, is help unify the message because we're losing, we're not winning. We're continuously getting pushback, we're losing ground, things are getting worse, people are getting less healthy, and we need to figure this out.

Starting point is 00:23:08 Because of, I can't think of a space that's more equipped to actually win this. There is no space that exists. Other than the health space, that actually has the tools that can solve our health problems. So we just need to figure out, hey everybody, let's gather, let's unify, let's gather together, let's unify our message, and let's get people to take those steps.

Starting point is 00:23:32 Let's start with step one. I know the goal is to climb the mountain, but this person hasn't even stepped outside their door. Let's start with one step, and let's get everybody on board with that one step, and then what typically happens is people start to feel a little bit better and then they start to take, hey, they say, I wanna take maybe another step. I mean, if we just got everybody, literally,

Starting point is 00:23:53 if we just got everybody to, I don't know, eat the right amount of protein and work out twice a week. Okay, that's so far from perfect, it's not even funny. But if you just got everybody to do that, do you know what person, how much of a significant impact that would have on everybody's health? Yeah. That says more, by the way, about how poor everybody's health is. That's, that's obviously the point. Not that we're, you know, we're, we're getting it by the way. That's magical or anything. Yeah. It's just we're so bad or health is so bad. It's like getting off the couch would have been, would have tremendous benefit.

Starting point is 00:24:25 It just reminds me, I mean, there's camps out there that are like shaming people for exercises and saying that like we should all strive to be coming, you're saying bolt and sprint. Like you have to make the pinnacle of training. Like that's how ridiculous, like the space is. And how ludicrous, like you're really trying to help somebody, and you're trying to turn everybody into a,

Starting point is 00:24:47 you saying bolt, you think that's reasonable? So let's all check ourselves, and realize, there's such a bigger need out there for people to just find their way into fitness, and helping themselves get healthy. Have Mrs. Johnson just start sprinting? You know, this is the most fun. You just need to sprint. Yeah, just run as fast as you can. Johnson just start sprinting. You know, this is the most fun story. You just need to sprint.

Starting point is 00:25:05 Yeah, just run as fast you can. Ah! It's insane. I never, we're all guilty of it. We're all guilty of it. All of us. Sure, of course. It took me, but you gotta admit it.

Starting point is 00:25:14 It took me years. You're not admitting it. I'm gonna call you out. It took me years and years and years and lots of faith. Well, that was like the video games. Oh my God, the video game comments that I got on that thread. Wow. We have a story about that. I knew that would be the the video games. Oh my God. The video game comments that I got on that thread. Wow. I'm sorry about that. I knew that would be the most. Oh, you know, it's so funny because you were sick.

Starting point is 00:25:30 And so I had a day on Instagram. You know, I'm never on there commenting and stuff. And I'm like, oh, it's out today. So we're all in the studio just kind of hanging out. We're not recording. And so I'm like, and that had just dropped. And so I was just like,. And I was being, a lot of it was sarcastic, right? I was just messing with people, but the part that I think is so funny about is I'm like picking on these people and being sarcastic about some of these video game dorks. And I'm like, bro, like I'm not coming from a place

Starting point is 00:25:56 of like standing on my pet, like I was there. Like I remember like being just like you and my buddy trying to give me a hard time and me being like, Ruh, look how much money I make and I'm still a grown man, and my buddy trying to give me a hard time and me being like Look how much money I make it. I'm still a grown man. I'm gonna play too on 50 You know him you know saying like I said those things. So yeah, this isn't me like like at all pointing out that and It it wasn't so funny because the clip the way it was presented right because it's just a clip You know, it's out of a whole episode where we talk about a bunch of other things that are making men weak.

Starting point is 00:26:28 That are a little targeted. Oh, okay. So the story, right? So I walk my dogs and my good friend and his dog. We're like kind of talking and just walking and he's like a big video game guy. And like, and so his girl like sense in that clip. Oh, it's like, he's your friend.

Starting point is 00:26:47 He's your friend. He's like, my pump's saying. I was like, oh no, like he was like, oh man, like I shouldn't be playing with you guys. I should be reading a book, I guess. You know, like, oh man. You know what I hate, I hate this argument too. It's like, it's like somewhat, like,

Starting point is 00:27:02 dude, you know, you smoke too much weed. It's better to get drunk all the time. Well, yeah, okay. I guess if those are your two options, you know. Well, video games are bad, but it's better than me, you know, doing something else at the terrible time. There was, there was something,

Starting point is 00:27:12 and I gotta give him credit because he did at the end of going back and forth with me. He did say, okay, fair enough, but he kept like going back, like arguing with it. And then he was just like, hey, bro, how about your Sunday football day? And I'm like, yeah, definitely bro, hindering my growth. 100% agree. Like I'm not saying I'm perfect.

Starting point is 00:27:28 I've said, I don't binge watching Netflix. And I know it's not. That's the point of this. Like we're all we're putting this message out, not of pointing the finger and oh, look at us as like, hey, I struggle with like all those things. At one point, I've struggled with all of these things. And so and inconsistently struggle with that, the pursuit of growth and allowing myself to be distracted by all these other things.

Starting point is 00:27:51 I mean, that's where the place that we've always come from. So this fact that everybody got so defensive. Just to count for it is like your inventory. Like this is where I'm spending time. And like assess like how you're spending time and like what that's contributing towards the value of your life. You know what it is it's that we've all been there right where you're doing something that's probably not moving your life in the right direction and rather than be honest with yourself be like

Starting point is 00:28:19 yeah I know that this is like not really great. You don't want to make that assumption you don't wanna say that. Because then that puts responsibility on you. It's not even that's how. It's, again, I know so, I'm so close to this because that was me. You love it so much. You're so deeply addicted to it

Starting point is 00:28:36 because it's given you, it's given you all those feel good feelings from playing it. So you're so, you love it so much and you've already justified it to your girlfriends and friends and stuff like that. It's better than going out drinking at the bar with people. It's better than this.

Starting point is 00:28:52 Look at my life. I make six figures and have a house and I've got my shit together. So you've already built like this. I don't trust her. And yeah, and identity around it that, anybody coming in at poking at that, like you already feel like you have the defense on that. It's just like, oh yeah, and identity around it that, you know, anybody coming in at poking at that, like you already feel like you have the defense on that.

Starting point is 00:29:07 Just like, oh yeah, well, and so, yeah, you just, you've identified with it so strongly that it's hard to do, and it's like, hey, it's like, and if you're happy where your life is, and you're successful and you play X amount of hours a week of video games, I'm not judging, I'm just saying, like, it's really the messages for the people that are stuck.

Starting point is 00:29:27 The message is for somebody who's like, feels like they can't get ahead, or the person who feels like their life sucks, and then you're also doing these things. That's really who the message is. It's not my point of the finger at somebody who's found some balance in their life or they love to play in our two video games a week.

Starting point is 00:29:43 Like, who? That's not the point of it. And let's be honest, most of you fools are getting defensive. It's not an hour or two a week. It's you are freaking mucking for hours. Okay? Like I did. Get home from work at like 9, 10 o'clock, you and your buddies plug in and you don't plug

Starting point is 00:29:57 it. You don't have to. You know why they got so mad, bro? Because when we were talking about video games, what they heard was their girlfriends' wives and the shit that they're both wives. And they were like, how dare you know my wife is gonna make me listen to this shit. I know that's as afraid of as like the pile on.

Starting point is 00:30:14 You know, like my friend got it from his girl. And I'm like, we're not sitting here like shaming you for that. Like, dude, it's the only thing I look for too. I get one hour. I'm like, that's not the, you didn't listen to the podcast. That's a clip that you know. And it's like, that's so funny. So that thought is pretty fun. Back to the whole like perfect versus good type of deal. Like this is actually a great way to mention magic spoon cereal. Magic spoon cereal is a processed cereal that has been made to taste like the

Starting point is 00:30:47 cereals that you grew up eating on Saturday morning, watching cartoons. The difference is it's very high in protein and low in other calories and so it's a great option if you're going to take one step towards the better direction or if you're going to indulge in some processed food. And I want to say that because when we started working with Magispoon, you had the purist come out. You're promoting cereal? This is processed.

Starting point is 00:31:16 I like those protein powder's processed too, right? I can't tell you Katrina would have tested this. I can't tell you how many times Magispoon has come in in replace of me having a bowl of ice cream at 10 o'clock at night. So many times. Where I wanna go downstairs and I'm craving like a bowl of ice cream and I get that kind of sweet flavor that is a quarter of the calories

Starting point is 00:31:38 as a Ben and Jerry pint of ice cream would be and five times the amount of protein for it. It's like such a better choice than to. Now never in my life would I say it beats a plate of chicken bread. It ounces of chicken breast and white rice and broccoli. Like no, I do not think that whatsoever. And I don't use it that way. That's what I heard.

Starting point is 00:31:58 Yeah. And that was like the max look of everything. Like max is not the guy to be like every Bush and you're McDonald's. This is the way to get healthy and fit. It's like I know what he's he's been bombarded by people talking about how expensive healthy food is and he's like this is a healthy choice in comparison. I feel bad about max. He's poor kid can't I say kid he's a might I can't poor guy. He can't win. win. He gets he's gotten a shit from the extreme macro side like Lane Norton. Yeah, for saying that he talks too much about laboratory science like

Starting point is 00:32:31 Christianists. Yeah, like talking too much about like you know the fight of chemicals. Yeah, yeah, the zero estrogen is stuff like that, right? And now he's got the wellness. He's trying to navigate. Hey, I think that's a sign you're doing. Get me to do something, right? Yeah, you're doing so right.

Starting point is 00:32:47 You're getting hate on both sides. I'm shouting to Max, man. Much love to Max, for sure. Anyway, so I want to just keep talking. How you feeling, by the way? Oh, I'm just, you sound better at least. I'm coming out. Hey, that episode was like sales.

Starting point is 00:33:00 Hey, sales were up on Sunday's episode. My people empathetic. I was seeing people felt sorry. So my kids bought more programs. So people that know my kids were, my wife and kids were in Arkansas. It was very somber. I went to, I was there, only with there for a few days, came back because we worked, went back.

Starting point is 00:33:17 My kids were sick. So my daughter, she had, my son and daughter both had feverers, kind of on and off. And then afterwards congestion, youngest my eight month old had Group at one point so they were kind of they were pretty sick went to go we went back to Arkansas We flew back and then I got what they had Hit me kind of hard tested myself turned out to be coven So this was coven around to actually worse than the first time I had coven

Starting point is 00:33:41 So I had a fever few days. I do want to say, commend you guys on your bravery. You guys had me come in and record a podcast. We're stupid. Yeah. Justin and I are gangsters, fuck. Yeah. I'm here day one. Oh, I need it.

Starting point is 00:33:55 Yeah. I've seen you eat a breetal off the bath in Florida. Yeah. No, but you guys are good. Yeah, but no, you got it. Adam got it. Well, I mean, I don't know what, I didn't get, I didn't test positive, right?

Starting point is 00:34:08 So I, but I, you were in here, Katrina was in here and all of us that are like, Doug, right? And I got sick the same time that Katrina got sick. And, but it didn't feel that bad. So I didn't think twice about it. And then I thought, well, I better test just to make sure that Sal tested positive. So I was like, it. And then I thought, well, I better test just to make sure I got a cell tested positive. So I was like, oh, let me test, I test negative.

Starting point is 00:34:28 And then I noticed that Katrina was getting sicker than like she never gets sick. So to see her sick at all was already rare. Is this her first time getting COVID? Yeah. It was, oh, that's why. Yeah. And so, and she was getting, she was worse than me.

Starting point is 00:34:41 So it's weird that we had a cold that was, I assumed was the same cold and she's worse. It. So it's weird that we had a cold, that was, I assumed was the same cold, and she's worse, it's never like that. So I thought that's kind of weird. I'm like, okay, you should probably test. She's like, I'm not testing, I'm fine. I'm like, you need to test, just see. And sure of shit, she tested positive.

Starting point is 00:34:55 Yeah. But now I'm a lot better and I did, you know, I did all this stuff I took. That was number two for you, right? The second time. It got you worse than the first time. I mean, it wasn't like Horrible horrible, but it was up there

Starting point is 00:35:09 I had a fever for three days which for me is a lot. I don't typically get that So I had a fever for three days and then just congested and shitty feeling you know Tired cut, but I never lost sense of smell or taste or anything like that Everything else was fine. I'm on the man. I did, you know, the whole protocol of herbs and shit, which by the way, you guys know that doctors can now not that the FDA's promoting this. So this is not an official treatment for the change your stance on mectin or that. Well, they didn't, they got challenged in court by a doctor. And the court said, doctors can prescribe

Starting point is 00:35:46 Ivermectin for COVID. Now this doesn't mean the FDA advocates for it, but now they can without getting in trouble. So now you can go to a doctor, give us a shot of what the FDA says anyways. I know. Wait, I care way more about my personal doctor than I'd care about the FDA,

Starting point is 00:36:01 but they can now prescribe it for COVID. Where's the course? Of course. They were told like, pharmacies couldn't be... Okay, so help me wrap my brain around what potentially could have happened to me. It's almost certain that the cold flu thing

Starting point is 00:36:17 that I got was from you. I wasn't around anybody else that was sick. We did kiss a lot. Yeah, and we missed each other, Doug. I didn't, and I also, by the way, too, when Katrina got it, was sick. We did kiss a lot. Yeah. And we missed each other, Doug. I didn't, I didn't, and I also, by the way, too, when Katrina Goddard was positive, like we didn't, I mean, we had sex twice afterwards. We slept in the, like, we didn't,

Starting point is 00:36:32 there was no, like, trying not to get it. Was it the same day, you guys had sex twice? Or was it two days a month, same day? Wow, that's pretty good. Yeah, we ran it by vacation. Checking how that is, right? So, yeah, first day. We'll get to that, actually.

Starting point is 00:36:44 This staff found out Justin's faster than 75% of men. Oh, yeah, that's the crazy staff. Yeah, first. We'll get to that. This staff found out Justin's faster than 75% of men. Oh, yeah, that's the crazy stats. I'll read you, dude. Yeah, I'll tell you about that. But no, help me understand. So, so okay, you know, wherever you get your news here, supposedly if you, you know, you didn't get the shot like I did, you actually got, I got

Starting point is 00:37:05 COVID twice. The antibodies are supposed to be in me for six months to a year. So there's different types, there's different layers to an immune memory, okay? There are, there's like the top layer and then there's lower layers. And there's some, you probably have some type of immunity for a year or two years. The strongest type of immunity last, I think something like six months is what they're finding. Okay, so then how does something like,

Starting point is 00:37:35 why is it then once you get chicken pox, you never get them again? Depends on, so some viruses cause such a robust immune response that you maintain like really strong immunity forever. So chicken pox have, you know, is one of those things. Where if you get it once, if you get it good enough once, by the way, if you get it really mild as a kid,

Starting point is 00:37:54 you can get it again. So that's kind of how I feel about what's happened to me with COVID, is that I got it early and I got it bad. The first time. The second time was like a little snivel and cold, I didn't even realize I had it until Katrina made me test. And then now here I am in a in a COVID incubator with you and her. And then I and then I stay with like in a tiny room. I mean, we drove in a car for five hours together

Starting point is 00:38:18 back and forth. All the way to Yosemite. We were in a little cabin together. Like there if there was a possibility that I could get it, like I couldn't have put myself in it. You did get it, you just got it real mild, and you didn't get a viral load that was big enough to show up on one of those over the counter tests. So that's the thing, like if you did one of those, like, but here's the thing that's weird, I'm beyond a year.

Starting point is 00:38:37 So supposedly, because you remember when everybody, remember all the vaccine pro side was just like, well, natural immunity's all gonna last you for six months anyways. And then you're good. So that was the big, so explain that to me how a year has gone by. I haven't had it. I was in a situation like that. And by the way, both you and Katrina were pretty bad.

Starting point is 00:38:59 And I'm around it. I got a cold from it, for sure, but nothing else. Well, I mean, you want to explain immunity? No, I don't know. So complex and there's so many factors. Yeah. That play a role from individual factors like your stress, your sleep, your vitamin, your nutrient levels,

Starting point is 00:39:15 this, that, and the other, your own immune response. Did it recognize the virus fast enough? How much of it were you exposed to? Did I just spray the shit out of you with virus or did you get enough, just enough to cause a small reaction and to fight, I mean, who knows, dude, it's weird. I mean, I didn't make out with you, but I did with Katrina. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:33 So it's like, definitely, if there was a possibility that I would get exposed. I mean, there was no way that I didn't get exposed. And again, I got sick. I was not around anybody else. I was sick. That was it. So weren't you holding some crystals or something?

Starting point is 00:39:46 Yeah, some rocks that were pouring off the evil. I don't know. The point of me bringing it up is just that I know that when a ridge, one of the arguments that I was having with my friends early on when everybody was all scared about this, I, you know, I told them, I said, like, you know, I'd rather get to natural immunity. And then they're, they're, they're defenses like, oh, that I'd rather get to natural immunity. And then their defense is like, oh, that's only good for six months anyways. And then it's gonna mutate.

Starting point is 00:40:10 You know, never in the history of the world has, like, that's so funny to me that people were making that argument. I know. That's never been healthy. Natural immunity is gonna win every day of the week. Period. Yeah, period of story.

Starting point is 00:40:23 And then, yeah, it was all just like, it was crazy how that shifted it because it was so motivated by ushering everybody to one solution. This was just vaccine and that was it. And so it just dismissed all like regular logic and reason from the conversation. I know, crazy.

Starting point is 00:40:42 Speaking of treatments and stuff like that. So I did my first ketamine therapy. Yeah, how the conversation. I know crazy. Speaking of like treatments and stuff like that. So I did my first ketamine therapy. Yeah, how was that? Okay, so besides giving you COVID, I know. Well, actually I started getting sick that day too, so it might have influenced the whole experience because I started to kind of feel sick

Starting point is 00:40:57 when I did the treatment. But anyway, boy, it was... Can you compare the two to me? What? The two therapies you've done. You've done these two EMDRs different. Obviously. This is a drug, right? So I'm under the influence. Yeah, yeah. It was, did one feel more impactful than the other? Oh, well, the, you're, the ketamine puts you there and you can't get away. So I can get away, you know, with EMDR if I want to or anything else. But so I, so here's how it all went down, right?

Starting point is 00:41:33 So we, you go into this office space and I'm working with somebody. Actually, she said I could mention her name. Her name is Harmony Stone. She does this. That's her real name. That's her name. Yeah. I know. Sounds like, you know, it's not, it's a real name. Sounds like Stone. She does this. That's her real name. That's her name, yeah. I know, sounds like. Maybe it's not.

Starting point is 00:41:46 It's a real name. Sounds like somebody would do this therapy. Yeah. I know, Harmony Stone. No. She's extremely qualified woman, extremely educated, very qualified, very, very good at what she does. Can we, can we just and I guess how she was dressed?

Starting point is 00:42:01 No. That's it. Okay. It's weird. I'm sorry, she's crying. She have a mood ring. No, I was wondering. King God, sorry.

Starting point is 00:42:09 Oh, she's a gem. She's a gem. I'm apologies, Harmony. It was getting too, she's like low-hanging fruit. She's very, very qualified at what she does, really good. But anyway, you're in this room and you, you know, you talk a little bit with therapists,

Starting point is 00:42:23 then you take, they give you like, there's like three doses. There's an initial dose, which is big, a second dose, which is big, and then what's called a booster dose. And so the first two sessions or so, you're figuring out what the right dose is for your body, because people are all kind of

Starting point is 00:42:39 individual, some people more sensitive with others. You guys want to guess if I'm more sensitive or less sensitive? You're more sensitive. For sure, yeah. 100%. Yeah, as I sensitive with others. You guys wanna guess if I'm more sensitive or less sensitive? More sensitive. For sure. 100%. As I'm with everyone. You're the guy who takes a supplement. It's like, it's working.

Starting point is 00:42:51 I can feel myself building muscle. You just swallowed it. Yeah, dude. So anyway, 100%. So I do the first, so it's a tablet, and you put it between your gum and your cheek. You let it sit there for 10 minutes. You swish around, then you spit it out. Then you lay back, you put an I am ass con, you put on some noise canceling headphones,

Starting point is 00:43:14 it has music, and you just let your mind go where it wants, right? Now you have your intention, but you let it go where it wants. So when you say you have your intention, did you, yeah, do you put that intention out? Yep, before. Yeah, yeah. So like your intention might be like, I want to, you know, I want to quit drinking alcohol or whatever. So then you lay back.

Starting point is 00:43:35 Now the thing about, I've only done this once. This is my personal experience. So I am not representing everybody. I've read lots of people's accounts and what people say. It was hard. It was really hard Like emotionally you mean it's super now it makes sense for me because I don't let myself feel hard emotions so I lay back and The I guess it starts to kick in and you know and this is what my therapist told me she says

Starting point is 00:44:07 You're gonna go where you need to go. Like, I'm prosecuting with you during this, or it was like sitting there with her and tension. No, she's in the room. Yeah, and she's not. But then when it's time to try the second dose or whatever, then she'll tap on your shoulder, you come up. Okay. And then if you want to talk, you can.

Starting point is 00:44:24 And she can help you kind of process what's going on. Okay, so let me get this straight. So okay, you communicate your intentions with her. Like, oh, I want to stop drinking alcohol or so whatever, whatever. So you're not telling us, right? And then you take the dose, you put these headphones on, you get the eye mask on.

Starting point is 00:44:38 And if she leaves the room. No, for the first session or two, I think she stays in the room. But I mean, she's not communicating to you. No, like you're literally, and she literally tells you, don't worry, it's gonna come up. Yeah, oh wow. So I lay back and sure as fuck,

Starting point is 00:44:54 that's exactly what happened. How long? Here's the weird thing, it distorts time. Yeah, and yet, an idea though. Well, it's probably 15 minutes. It felt like an hour or an hour and a half. So I lay back and all the tough shit that I don't let myself think about, right? It starts coming up. And I'm like, oh fuck, right? And I can find myself like trying to avoid thinking or feeling a particular way.

Starting point is 00:45:21 It wasn't happening. It was going there. So I finally let go, went into each of these thoughts and whatever, and it was hard, bro. It's like all this hardship came up, and I'm like, so do you feel yourself like, because you're blindfolded basically, you get this stuff in your life. Also, you just start crying, I don't know where. Yep, oh yeah, a lot of it.

Starting point is 00:45:41 Oh, I don't cry, bro. So it was a lot. Well, you like uncontrollably crying? Like, like, and snob bubbles. Yeah, so lot of it. Oh, I don't cry, bro. So it was a lot. Well, you like uncontrollably crying like Snap bubbles. Yeah, so no But it's still very sad. I think if you guys saw me you feel very bad for me You guys have to pet your hair a little bit I'm not sure if you're getting comfortable with the room. I'm gonna be like, oh well, we'll be back, Sal. Let us know when you're done. But yeah, I just love some tissue.

Starting point is 00:46:07 Just heavy dude, heavy, hard shit. And how long's it last? When I did the second dose and then boom. Well, hold on, come here, jump ahead here. So you're in it, you're crying, you're working through these things like that, that lasts about how long and then what's the intermission look like? Or is there no intermission?

Starting point is 00:46:25 I think that was like 15 minutes or so. And then I took another dose. And so she comes in and just like, she was there. She sits, she's watching you. Yeah, she's sitting in the room. She's just chilling, right? Then I did the second dose, again, laid back and just more hardship.

Starting point is 00:46:41 Now there were moments of gratitude and appreciation, but what came up for me mostly was all a shit. I don't let myself feel just the bottom line. I know Justin over there's like, that's why he's not doing it. Yeah, I'm not. There's so much there. I'm afraid Justin would die.

Starting point is 00:47:02 You're like a masochist. You know what? What I'm afraid Justin would die. You're like a masochist. You know what? What I'm learning, like big time, is that if you don't process an emotion, it doesn't go away. Yeah, just store. It's in you. And what it does is it drives shit that you don't know. And it, without your permission, it drives your shit.

Starting point is 00:47:21 So if you don't like complete the cycle, it's like a cycle, right? If you don't let it complete, it's fucking stuck. So if you don't like complete the cycle, it's like a cycle, right? If you don't let it complete, it's fucking stuck. So what does that completion look like? You gotta go through the like hard, painful, like there were, I don't wanna go into other, like too many details, but two easy ones for me to talk about,

Starting point is 00:47:38 we're not easy, but ones I've talked about before were, you know, I had somebody close to me die of cancer when this person, they were very close to me. When they died, I remember I couldn't cry. Late on their chest, they were in their deathbed, passed away, and I remember thinking, why can't I cry? Why can't I let this out, right?

Starting point is 00:47:56 Oh, that came out. That came out. They're gonna get me there. And I thought my grandfather, boom, that came out. And then other shit that I don't wanna talk about that just all came out. So it's like I had to let it out had to come out. Okay. So after you process all that, yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:08 Yeah. Do you get this feeling of you come out of it and you're like, I'm better now. No. Or is it just there's still work to be done? I don't think it's that easy. I think yeah. I think that no, it was heavy. It was it was definitely heavy and hard.

Starting point is 00:48:21 So it's more like an awareness thing first. Yeah. And then now do you now? I don't know what the next ones are going to be like. I know I've read a lot of people's accounts and they say that they'll there's times in their very euphoric and they just feel like they're like you know just they feel the connectedness of things. And you know I don't know if that's going to happen to me but this was heavy hard but necessary. that's gonna happen to me, but this was heavy, hard, but necessary, but necessary. And what makes me want to go back is, I always bring it back to the space

Starting point is 00:48:52 that I understand, which is fitness, which is like, you're gonna work out, it's gonna be fucking hard, you know? That's it, and it's the only way, if you're gonna progress in any significant way, it's gotta be hard. So, do I want to progress or not? Am I going to be a coward?

Starting point is 00:49:07 Or am I going to have some bravery here? And the reality is I want to be a coward. I want to run away, but I'm going to choose to go through it. So I'm going to step into the fire again. Now, how do you, when you come back to like, you know, with your family and everybody, so like that, is it difficult? Yeah, because you're still like processing all this.

Starting point is 00:49:30 Oh, bro, I so, like, you're like, So you're not supposed to drive afterwards, right? So afterwards I leave and I go down to call it Uber, but I waited for like 45 minutes and I literally, I swear to God, if you guys are all by there. This are crying. Well, if you guys drove by and you didn't know me, you guys throw a buy if you guys throw buy And you didn't know me you'd be like that poor man. I was sitting. Hey listen. I'm a grown man

Starting point is 00:49:50 You're like on a bench. Hey, I'm a 44 year old grown man. I'm sitting on the curb Okay, on the street on the curb just sitting there just for 45 minutes Just trying to piece Fully aware that the how I probably appear to people drive me wide, but I can't, I can't call my car right now. I gotta sit here for a second. Yeah, so then I got home and then I just laid on the couch and you're just still trying to process all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:50:15 Yeah, so has it made this past week easy, difficult, calm, calm. Oh, okay. So good. Even through challenges and stuff, I'm finding myself more aware of my own behaviors and reactions and more calm about certain things. But I'm fully aware it's like the first step. So we got a lot of work to go. But it's, I tell you, man, people, I don't, here's the thing.

Starting point is 00:50:43 I remember thinking this halfway through, halfway through, I'm sitting there bawling, like this is, oh my. But it's, I tell you, man, people, I don't, since here's the thing, I remember thinking this halfway through, halfway through I'm sitting there bawling like this is, oh my gosh, it's so hard, I'm letting myself go in there and shit. Like people use ketamine to party, what the fuck is wrong with? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I think it's like other psychedelics, like you hear people talk about like, tough and dangerous.

Starting point is 00:51:01 Is it the environment that just really drives a different change to it? It's the intent. I think it just brings up with the intent. I mean, it's just like, I mean, you've ever, you know, ever, I would think most people have had an experience where that's been amazing on alcohol and then a really depressing or a bad one.

Starting point is 00:51:16 If you go, if you drink your sorrows away, a lot of times, that's a really awful drunk experience. If you go with your buddies to a concert, you're excited about, it's like it's a fun. So it's like the same thing. I think, I'm just another level. I think it literally brings up what needs to be brought up. And so if that just so happens to be some shit

Starting point is 00:51:35 that you don't wanna deal with, because it's hard, that's what's gonna come up. Because I've had that with Silasibon, right? I've had great experiences with you guys creating or doing something positive or business related that it's all good. And then I've had other ones which are really deep with Katrina and I

Starting point is 00:51:49 and we're like working on some relationships. So I think it has a lot to do with. You remember that time, Dustin? We had an experience with the Silasibon. Yeah, they were like, what the? It brought some shit up, yeah. It's because my family was close by and it was like, oh, it just hit me different. Yeah, by and it was like, oh, just hit me different.

Starting point is 00:52:05 You know, like normally I was like, oh, cool, look at these colors and these interesting bugs and whatever. And then it was just like, I had the thought of my family and it said this like, overwhelming, like just, I don't know, man. It was emotion. Emotion, it was just, it was just,

Starting point is 00:52:19 that was an emotional rack for like a few minutes. And then he found me in the house, I literally left you guys on purpose. Yeah. I left those. I gave, I only see me like, I gave him a really long hug. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:33 That, that, that, that, probably Williams, that Damon, that's not your fault, your fault, that's your fault. This is what he was, that's the thing to, and I was like thinking about this

Starting point is 00:52:43 because it's like, you, you think about like stoicism and you think about these practices and like, it's almost like that on steroids, right? Because you're really facing like worst case scenario or like things of the past that have really like affected you in a certain way or traumatized you in some sense to where like, I think like people just don't take the time to really acknowledge these events and these things and to really learn from them and move forward.

Starting point is 00:53:09 Like there's a balancing act. The balancing act is you gotta get shit done. There are things you have to show up for. And so sometimes that means you gotta just move forward and you can't think about hardship because otherwise you're not gonna be able to work, you're not gonna be able to be there for people. Yes, get shit done.

Starting point is 00:53:27 Or whatever. But there's a balancing act because you also need to allow, not run away from those things because otherwise they start to pull the levers and how you interact with people and the things that you do. And then you're not, you don't even aware, you're not even aware that you act a particular way, you do certain things because of this shit that you're not, like, you're not particularly facing. It's all about bravery, by the way.

Starting point is 00:53:49 It's all about bravery. So that was another thing I realized. It's like, oh, me not allowing myself to feel this isn't, isn't making me better. It's actually making me worse since because I'm scared. I got to face this, you know, kind of shit. So yeah. So you think there's a, like, a possibility that someone has like this all positive experience. Oh yeah. Oh,

Starting point is 00:54:09 you read, read about them. Okay. Where it's like, oh yeah. And so I could, I couldn't, I mean, I would think that I'm gonna do like a what? I'm gonna do eight sessions. I think it's an anal. Sorry. What did you say? Like I said, give you a different out completely out of the stairs Wow just like that you lost Justin and I Was going there Start crying like you know I'm doing eight of them. Sorry. Sorry. We're still a little, you're still a little cloudy. No. No.

Starting point is 00:54:48 No. Sorry. We're still a little, you're still a little cloudy. No. No. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Starting point is 00:54:57 Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Oh, yeah, I totally left turn, but did you guys? You guys see the news on bar still sports with day point. I what hey, we're so explain that he

Starting point is 00:55:10 So he sold the company for a half a billion dollars, okay? Okay, so and probably made a good Julian right so I'm sure he made a lot of money on that cell Two pen national. I told you guys about pen a long time ago, that's the gambling, gambling, gambling, gambling and stuff. So I bought shares in them a long time ago. And so they basically were partners now in business. I don't remember what the exact percentage of the company that pen owned after they after they bought, but they sold back to him for $1. Yeah. Why? Because it's obviously this was a plan. It was like, let me sell to you. Well, to give it back to for a dollar was a plan.

Starting point is 00:55:50 And then if there's a little more to it, right, too. So if he then goes and sells again, that he they're entitled to a bunch. So basically it's basically giving him full control and ownership. Was it now, did he, did he stay away? Or he sold, therefore he's therefore his hands are free of particular. Was it on the decline or something?

Starting point is 00:56:08 Was he worried about the price? No, what was happening was that with a gambling app or company, the laws and regulations and the rules were so, we're getting so stringent that they couldn't, and what they were about to do. So Penn National was about to sign with Disney, ESPN. And Disney wanted nothing to do with Dave. So the deal was if we are going to, if Penn National was going to partner up with ESPN and Disney, you can't be with Dave. And so basically they sold, they sold it. So Dave's out. So no, Dave was out. Well, no, they sold the company.

Starting point is 00:56:45 And so then Penn can go back and, so Penn is no longer associated with barstool. So basically they sold barstool back to Dave. Dave is in. Oh, I see. Yeah. And now they can go, they can go full on over to ESPN. Yeah, real smart.

Starting point is 00:57:00 That's really smart, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, God, what a win for Dave. Yeah. To be able to sell, get back control for a dollar and now he's running his company the same way he wanted to run his company. After we sold it for half a year after he cashed out. And the only thing is in the contract is that if he turns around like sells the company, say, for $2 billion in so many years, penns in title too. I don't know what the breakdown is that they would get paid out. He's a smart business guy.

Starting point is 00:57:26 He is. Yeah, I thought that was pretty savvy and a win all the way around for him. Because he felt like his content was being steered by the penational because of all the regulations. And something couldn't say or talk about. And so interesting.

Starting point is 00:57:42 So what is the statistic that you're trying to... Oh, that you're faster're faster than relate to me. Well, actually, Sal pointed out, I brought this this thing. He's like, Oh my god, just throw me in your set. Yeah. What did you say, Sal? So 75% of men, uh, actually orgasm within two minutes of intercourse. with in two minutes of intercourse. Steve, that's a lot. We need 75% of men. I beat you. Yeah. Orgasm within two minutes of intercourse.

Starting point is 00:58:12 Wow. So that's, is that true? I mean, like, it's very beginning. I can't be like, I'm sure you're not reported. Are they, yeah, are they like, anonymously, right? Who's reporting this? Well, you're anonymously, you're not being like, hey, I'm the guy who can only they, yeah, are they like, anonymously, right? Who's reporting this? Well, you're anonymously, you're not being like,

Starting point is 00:58:27 hey, I'm the guy who can only last a minute 30. First place. And two, it's not, it's somebody who get a new relationship. I mean, at least give the guy a bit of a clear. Right. Like, you think at that point, it's gonna be, you know, longer than I thought.

Starting point is 00:58:38 I mean, that's a lot. Three quarters of men. I, I wonder how they got the statistic though. Like how, the fact checker me right now? I'm looking for it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just Google how fast? What you got Andrew?

Starting point is 00:58:51 It's true. It was reported 75% of the maniac with in two minutes, but it's all that is based off of study from the 1950s. Oh, well, from the 50s. Oh, you think we're better than now? I mean, back then, no. But like, you barely saw ankle back then. Yeah, I want to know.

Starting point is 00:59:07 You know, that's different. Yeah, guys were on edge. I want to know more and then. Oh, yeah, I want to know how they would study that. Did they have a bunch of guys in a room? No, I bet you, okay, do you remember I've told you guys before? Ready to go. I have, I'm a part of this like survey.

Starting point is 00:59:24 It's been going on since I was like six or seven years old. They find me, they find me every like three to four years. They pay me like a hundred and something box. It's gone up over years. I don't know what it is now. They haven't found me in a while. Courtney was part of one of those. But they've really, yeah, and every house that I've ever lived in, like they've gone

Starting point is 00:59:43 and found me. And I put these headphones on, I have a laptop, and they're like very personal questions. And it's an anonymous survey, and they basically have followed my life. Everything from, and obviously I remember doing it as a kid, and then as adults, so a lot of these questions, like when I was like 12, asking me about drugs,

Starting point is 01:00:02 or trying to like, no, on either of those, and some things have changed. And so that's where a lot of these statistics come from when they, and then they ask questions about my sex life too. So that was where in there. So that type of stuff. So I'm sure it's like a survey like that

Starting point is 01:00:15 where they anonymously answered a bunch of these random questions. But I've always thought that was really interesting how I got like thrown into that thing. Well, you know, there was a whole art. There was an argument for a long time as to what the purpose of the female orgasm was because evolutionarily speaking makes sense obviously for a man to ejaculate orgasm and also for it to happen quickly because it increases your odds of, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna pass on your DNA, right?

Starting point is 01:00:45 But then the argument was like, well, why do women orgasm, is it just a leftover byproduct? What's the value? Now, they've shown in studies that when a woman orgasms, her odds of becoming pregnant go up, but it's not enough to really make sense. So the big argument really is that it shows how social we are

Starting point is 01:01:04 and that it really wasn't the story of just guys going around banging chicks as fast as they can, but rather actually wanting to please them as well. And that the women pick mates and say, well, he actually cares about how I feel type of deal. So yeah, I know, interesting. But yeah, but yeah, Justin definitely fastest in the West. Yeah. Gunslinger over here. Yeah. He read that stats and we're like, please read it like this.

Starting point is 01:01:31 Yeah. I know. So we have no idea about it. Yeah. Oh, you guys are going to comment on this study. It was a Kinsey study. So it was back in like 1948. But the stats have changed since then.

Starting point is 01:01:44 It's between 5.4 and 7.5 minutes now, in time. 1948, but the stats have changed since then. It's between 5.4 and 7.5 minutes now, in time. Oh wow, wow. What do you go guys? Suggesting that men have adapted their sexual behavior to better fit the social ideal. Oh, interesting. Just say what it says.

Starting point is 01:01:59 Double their time, that sucks when you're so low on time that double your time is five minutes. Yeah, I crushed it. Yeah. You know, anyway, did you, uh, do you guys see the follow up on the plane lady? Yes. Yes.

Starting point is 01:02:11 Is it real? Is it real? Well, okay. She's a politician basically. She's a politician. It was, it was a weird, a weird apology. And why, why was she even, I mean, yeah, I get that she was like cursing and so she probably felt bad. There was kids and like, you know, embarrassed about it and like, I mean, yeah, I get that she was cursing and so she probably felt bad. There was kids, you know, embarrassed about it.

Starting point is 01:02:27 And like, I mean, that's gotta be weird to become an instant like viral meme because you have a freak out. Like, she literally freaked out. And so she probably was just like very embarrassed by that fact, but doesn't reveal like any of what caused that. Like, she doesn't like bring up, who was not real? Like what spurred that? There's no context of like,

Starting point is 01:02:51 well did she take any kind of medication or was the guy just acting weird or like, what's the rationale other than like, we're still left with the fact that you saw something and it freaked you the fuck out and you had to get off the plate. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:07 We're, we're, she gave us nothing. Someone sideways blinked. That's what I think. She just didn't want to say. Yeah. Cause they, they, they threatened her. Yeah, I thought it was really weird to, to be silent that long. And then she, like, you could tell she, like, got all done up in her makeup to do, like,

Starting point is 01:03:19 this formal, like, you know, apology. You're, what are we going to do? Yeah. And thought, that's really weird, dude. Like, I don't know. I'm excited. My And thought, that's really weird, dude, like, I don't know. I'm excited. My painting should be here any day now. Oh, yeah. Cheers to the best painting.

Starting point is 01:03:30 I'm so pumped up. That's the best thing ever. Super fun. Hey, I want to, I want to comment on when he's the interviewer. I want to comment real quick on a falletin, which is the, the peptide hair product that we, we did an episode on hair regrowth with Jay Campbell. And there were people say,

Starting point is 01:03:48 oh my God, it's so expensive. It's a three month supply. I want everybody to know that. It's very little. So it's a three month supply. It's a three month supply. Yeah, so that's why it costs as much as it does. But, you know, Vicki's still telling me,

Starting point is 01:04:00 she says she could tell little by little that it seems to have some positive effect on me. And I've been using it now for two months. Well, you're the best because you're the most consistent with it. So I was like consistent for a minute, then I fell off, and then I was like, it's so hard for me because I don't care. I don't want to care, right? I want to care. I want to do the cell palm that I want to do for that too, right?

Starting point is 01:04:19 I was using salt, palm, eto, shampoo before, but that all that does is reduce DHT in the scalp. But are you sure you don't care, or is it that you're just, you don't wanna be let down and sad about it? That would imply I care. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you guys remember or not, but I don't know what you're saying.

Starting point is 01:04:38 There was like two years there where like, Katrina and I would kind of get into it. Like I wanted to shave it. As soon as it started to thin, I'm like, oh, I'm over this. Let's shave it. She's like, no. She was so adamant about me, not shave.

Starting point is 01:04:50 She was so afraid I was gonna be like this ugly bald guy. Like, this like got a pretty good round head. I said like I used to shave it when I was a kid in sports. I loved it, you know, and made it think made things easy. And so every man loves the feeling of being. And not to me. I never liked my hair. I don't want men just doing this.

Starting point is 01:05:06 Oh, that's the best. Oh, with the best. Even when I had all my hair, I didn't like it. I was never like, I see my son's hair. I wish I had my son's hair. My son has cool hair. You could do stuff with it. So I-

Starting point is 01:05:17 What was your hair? It was like wavy and nappy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, big old hair. Yeah, it's like, kind of like your son's hair like that. Yeah, yeah. It's like that you can't ask him. You can't fucking do anything with that hair. It's hair like that. Yeah, it's like they and ask him

Starting point is 01:05:25 You can't fucking do anything that it's awful. You can't style it. You can't do anything just poofy So I never liked it So I think you know what I'm saying I think you know be careful what you wish for I think I'm just like I the fuck this hair and so then God's like okay here you go No more hair How about this buddy Yeah, so I just I I'm not, I don't care enough. I'm not, I guess, I wish it was a bigger insecurity

Starting point is 01:05:51 so maybe I would be more motivated. My brother, my brother's swearing by it. He's been fighting his, yeah. He's been fighting his, isn't it? Like, it's actually like a really, I shouldn't laugh about that, right? There's a lot of men that like suffer from depression and stuff because of baldness, isn't it? It's like a mate, isn't like a mate isn't it like one of the top ones that their identity was through their hair

Starting point is 01:06:08 like they do it like and that's maybe like if I had like Patrick Swazie hair or something and then I lost it and I'll be like you know or like how Craig Capurso yeah if I had like this like this what's the guy's name Jesse from Full House who's oh yeah if I had like beautiful locks and then I went bald maybe that would do that but but I hated my hair since the jump. Oh, yeah, what's the what's the depression stats? Well, I don't know what the stats are, but my thought is yeah a lot of guys are very concerned about it and Myself personally, I think I have a really strange shaped head, so I don't think I look good bald Yeah, so you're concerned too. Yeah, you're concerned the same reason Salas. Yeah. Yeah. We're good shape. We're talking about really who told you that. I what? I don't. You

Starting point is 01:06:49 told you that you and I have a very similar shape information like. And hold on a second. No, my head and your head are very similar. Not the face. You got way more way more cheeks. But the head you and I have a very similar shape test. True. Justin not Justin's got. He's got a fucking juggernaut. I got a hand ready for a helmet. Yeah, he does, he doesn't need a helmet. He doesn't need a helmet.

Starting point is 01:07:09 Yeah, I think it's a baseball. He said, let's see, let's see, let's see. What can you just, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Hey, can we talk real quick about you brought something up that I vaguely remember knowing about but then I I Read into it and I was like I can't believe this was allowed to happen the thing with Brooksheel's oh What have we not talked about this? I feel like we might have alluded to it Yeah, if we did I was like not paying attention to you guys brought this up because I knew nothing about I knew about it Kind of but I for some reason really think that and then when you brought it up Yeah, I like you realize that I went down the rabbit. It's so creepy. It's like it was hard to like believe

Starting point is 01:07:55 Yeah, it's like I can't believe she was how old 10 10 10 years old 10 playboy Posed in playboy 11 make it 11 plays a prostitute in a movie. And she had to make out with like a 28 or 30 something your old man. And there's like full nudity, I think of her as well. It's like absolutely repulsive. Like I cannot believe that made it through. And this was in the 70s, right?

Starting point is 01:08:19 Yeah. This was in the 70s. You know, it's crazy. That would never fly today. Well, back then, what's crazy to me, what's crazy to me is, there's my pick it up. There's a, no, I mean, why it's actually really crazy to me is, I thought what's been happening in the last, you know, five years with like, you know, the, what was this, the, the, the, the, the, the, yeah, cuties and the,

Starting point is 01:08:41 armor free and all the stuff that would pedophilia going on. We have the documentary that just came out and just like, man We're like and all the all the Hollywood getting the Epstein like all this stuff coming out. I'm like, God This is like so bad, but it's been happening for such a long time and We were like normalizing it back then, you know, because it came I know that they put it under the umbrella of art Yeah, and it was right around the you know the big sexual revolution right was like, I was like, the 60s, you know, make love, pee, so all that stuff like that is going on. And so they put it in the kind of like art, free spirit, anyone should be allowed to do, like, beyond discussing a 10-year-old

Starting point is 01:09:15 fully nude in playboy, and then at 11 years old, to do that. One, you're a fucked up mom to even allow your kid to do that. Or evil. Yeah. So, you know, you're like, old, to do that. One, you're a fucked up mom to even allow your kid to do that, or evil. Yeah, evil. Un-unbelieveable. Imagine what she's had the deal with, like looking back at that,

Starting point is 01:09:35 like how traumatic that must've been. The rest of her life, fucked up. You can't not, you don't make it out of that and not get fucked up. That's impossible. You guys don't even know, dude. So if you go down this rabbit hole, I've done it a couple times,

Starting point is 01:09:46 but I can only do it for about 10 minutes because then it just bothers me so much. Did you guys know I want to say in Germany, there was a psychiatrist who made the case, effectively made the case, that orphan children, in order to help them, that they'll be okay

Starting point is 01:10:05 They'll be better off if they're with in a relationship with an adult where the adult cares for them and Still has consensual right quote-unquote consensual Sexual contact so small a station, but you know not hurting the kid. This is how they argument It's better for them. They're being cared for they actually care for the kid because they have this relationship with them This was the case that was made to the point where Germany It was public policy. They took orphan children Put them with known sex offenders for a decade or so and these kids were being knowingly put with Sex offenders. It's absolutely poly and that was the argument that it was going

Starting point is 01:10:45 to it was better for them than being on their own or you know being orphans or whatever. Crazy. Crazy. And this was in the 60s I want to say. Yeah. Insane. I'm with Putin on how to handle this. What did you do? Do you know what they do over there? Chemical castration. Yeah. You're if you get caught as a pedophile. Yeah, get rid of your shit. Yeah, that's crazy That's I think a little too easy to be honest. Yeah, let's give a shout out to I can't believe it never gave Paul checker shot Out Paul chat. That's crazy. We talked about it earlier. I again, I've called them the godfather wellness He's a legend in the space. He is a total legend. He's one of the smartest people when it just comes to total overall health and wellness. Very interesting guy, also very entertaining.

Starting point is 01:11:29 We've had him on the show a few times. You have your new listener and you want a wild couple episodes. Go back in. Yeah. I'd say you went on a journey with him. But he's a good time. He's a great guy, love the guy. So wealth of knowledge.

Starting point is 01:11:41 Check him out. All right, you've probably read about the potential benefits of CBD. The problem is most products on the market are simply ineffective. That's because either A, they have no CBD at all or B, they have some CBD, but they don't have other cannabinoids. Cannabinoids work when they're in combinations called the entourage effect. There's a company called Ned that makes a full spectrum hemp oil high in CBD, but also has all the other cannabinoids and the turpines and other things that are in the hemp plant that make the CBD work so well for things like inflammation,

Starting point is 01:12:16 sleep, euphoria, gut health, and more. Go check them out. Go to helloned.com. That's H-E-L-L-O-A-D.com forward slash mine pump and then use a code mine pump and get 15% off. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Mike from Nevada. Mike, what's happening? How can we help you? What's up guys? How are you doing? Good, good. Good, man. How are you?

Starting point is 01:12:39 I'm good. I'm good. So I'll get to my question and I apologize Adam if I misquote you, but I remember a couple episodes ago you were talking about to a caller about losing body fat and that you would what you would do would be take more steps. So if it was 10,000, you do 12,000, 14,000, so forth and so forth. But what if you could do that? What if I couldn't walk? Was what you're saying? Yeah, so basically my issue is, so I have scoliosis which hasn't really bothered me, but I have a shift in my L4L5 lawn march find which causes numbness in my quad.

Starting point is 01:13:22 I also have a couple of fun on both hands. It's just like, great. Which doesn't bother me when I work out. It never happens when I work out. But let's say, in general, if you were going to Costco and you were parked like, I don't know, over half the length of the parking lot. If I was there, I'd start feeling the numbness.

Starting point is 01:13:42 And the longer I was there, I started to have your hip pain. So I had to step, I had to like kneel down for a minute and my leg happened to keep doing this. So if you couldn't put that many steps in the day, we'll go. Got it, got it, got it. Okay, that's a lot better. So the main focus in is I wouldn't want to put

Starting point is 01:14:00 a lot of energy towards building muscle so that I have a faster metabolism, so it doesn't require as much activity to help me lean out. So that would be step one, right? Like I would wanna get to a place where we have enough muscle mass on our body that you're eating a good amount of calories and good I mean for a man, your size,

Starting point is 01:14:21 I want you north of 3000 plus calories a day without putting body fat on. So that would be the foot. Yeah. So that would to get there. That doesn't mean like today you go from where you're at to there, but that would be the main focus first. And then I would reduce calories to lean you out because I know that I can't make you

Starting point is 01:14:39 do 12, 15, 20,000 steps a day. So then I would cut. But the mistake that a lot of people make that may be in a similar situation as you is go, Hey, I want to lean out. I hear Adam say you've got to walk all time. I can't do that. So I should just cut calories, but you're coming from a place of only eating, say, 2200 calories a day and you're sure.

Starting point is 01:15:00 And so I don't know if I was close at all or you're at, but that the problem with that is if you've got more than Five pounds of fat that you want to lose You're going to end up at such a low calorie. It's going to be really difficult to maintain So let's say that if I let's say I guessed a similar number to where you're at and you're like, hey I want to lose like 15 pounds of body fat So we reduce two to three hundred calories you lean out a couple pounds, didn't we reduce 200 calories again? You lean out a couple more pounds. Before you know it, you're eating 1500 calories a day and you're still about five pounds from your goal. So it's like you're at a place where you're so low of calorie, it's not sustainable long-term. And so that's a

Starting point is 01:15:41 sign that we should have done it the other way, which is we should have put more energy and focus on building muscle and And get a faster metabolism so that when we reduce those calories You land in a place that you're like, oh, this is sustainable. That's why I said 3000 plus so now envision that we go on a journey for the next six months of Building muscle and I build say 10 pounds of muscle on you over the course of, say, six months. And then, and we get your metabolism up to 3,300 calories. And then I slowly bring you down, and then you get to your place where you're lean and you're happy where you're at body fat wise, and you're eating 2,200 calories.

Starting point is 01:16:20 So that's how I would approach, you know, getting you there if we were limited by movement and steps to help us create the caloric deficit. Yeah, and honestly Mike, trying to walk or run or burn fat off through activity isn't really a great long-term approach anyway. So right, which is what I hear from you guys. I've been listening for the last two years

Starting point is 01:16:42 at the Runnier Maps program, which I absolutely love, which I have a question for you Sal, you've met in something a few episodes ago. You guys were told you and I were talking about dead lifting grips, right? And how you were saying in balances you should, if you use a mix grip, which I know Adam you're saying you should use a overhead grip, but if you use a mid-script, should you do even step like switching them? You know what I'm saying? Yep. Yep. If you go right-hand supinated, left-hand pronated, and then switch, and then switch. Yeah, I would do even sets, or start the next workout with the other position. So if it's only three sets, then in let's say,

Starting point is 01:17:25 two sets were right hand, supernated. Then the next time you work out, do two sets where the left hand is supernated. Also, you actually want to do okay? Okay. And I have one more question for Adam, which we make you my second favorite. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:41 It's on set and stuff and Justin, what I love both, but make you my second favorite. I'll be back to ball. I'm chicken on your nose. it's not it's not it's not and jensen would love but it's making my second uh... im checking out you know who's the

Starting point is 01:17:51 who's the goat oh man i mean here's a thing and this will be this will be an unpopular answer

Starting point is 01:18:00 because i'm a huge michael jordan fan and by the way i could argue this cave we had an hour to talk about this. I could argue Jordan and I could argue LeBron for both different reasons. Like statistically what LeBron is doing,

Starting point is 01:18:13 I mean, what he's surpassing numbers wise, you can't deny what that man's done as far as how many championships he's been to, all the trophies that the guys got, the scoring title that he has. Statistically, you have to give, you have to tip your hat to him and say, he potentially is that.

Starting point is 01:18:28 But what Jordan did in his era at that time, the way he was feared at that time too, I mean, you have a lot of people that got to play with both. And they would say that Jordan is still the goat because of the player mentality that he had on the court. So I could argue either case. I know that's probably not the answer you're looking for, but- Plus the bronch on the line.

Starting point is 01:18:48 Yeah. That's beyond us. Yeah. Unfortunately, I've liked LeBron less and less for less about his basketball and more of what he, the way he talks outside of basketball. So it's hard because of that, I like him less. I loved that Jordan played the game and left it at that and didn't try and

Starting point is 01:19:07 involve himself and so many other things. So personally, I have more respect for him for that, but you can argue either way, man. He really can't. I'm assuming that you didn't have anybody else on that list. It's Jordan or LeBron, right? Correct. Yeah. I was asking your opinion. So you're going to play, you're not going to choose one the other. I'm not because it's, I don't think it's fair because you, if you can't compare somebody that generationally they're, they played against different defenses and players. There was different rules in the game. You could get away with so much more defensively back in the days with

Starting point is 01:19:45 Jordan. So the physicality of the game is different. So the game has evolved and changed. So it's hard to compare, just like it's hard to compare boxers. It's hard to compare, you know, Muhammad Ali to a Mike Tyson era because stylistically, the athletes, they were fighting against where we're at. So it's one of those things that's fun to get drunk or high and talk to your friends about for two hours and argue. But the end of the day I don't think it's fair to to compare you know I'm saying. Well let me let me give one for a shout and Justin to go down a rabbit hole. You guys talked about this the other day about errors. From error gold error you asked this question about what was the next era be? Yeah, remember this yep. Oh, yeah, it would be iron the iron era

Starting point is 01:20:30 And only reason why is because in In the Bible there's a story about nebuchadnezzar who has a dream about a statue of head of gold Silver bronze and iron over Franz and I was looking at and I'm like, I'm sorry, so there you are. I'm looking at you. Hey, that's cool. I like that.

Starting point is 01:20:48 That's cool. I was thinking platinum. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. Good deal. Hey, guys, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. You got him right.

Starting point is 01:20:56 Hi, Mike. Take it easy, man. What about Dr. J? Didn't he score the most? He's not even close enough. Because nobody could defend his... The only thing I would say is air hook, right? I've heard arguments on Jordan's behalf

Starting point is 01:21:11 about the well-roundedness in terms of like him winning awards for defense and him winning awards for a lot of things consistently that LeBron didn't. But I mean, to your point, the game was a completely different animal back then. And so I just, to your point, the game was a completely different animal back then. And so he, I just, I liked his mentality and his tenaciousness. He wasn't as physically dominant as LeBron.

Starting point is 01:21:33 So for me, I lean more into that just based off of like him being able to grind his way towards like all those championship. I also lean towards Jordan because what he did was so unique and unprecedented when he did it. Like, and this is kind of an unfair way to do this, but I mean, I think it's true. I think you guys imagine being in an era where when you look at the landscape, nobody is doing any of these things

Starting point is 01:21:58 and you go pay for the Maverick versus nowadays, like what LeBron's peers are all, they push him, right? Like, where Jordan had to push himself. Like, he was so far ahead of everybody for so long. Imagine, and I have a lot of respect for that. It's really easy to settle when you're already clowning everybody

Starting point is 01:22:20 for already for a really long time, to keep pushing, to keep driving, to be better and better. Where I feel like LeBron has, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of very talented players that are pushing the envelope today in comparison to then like just the level. I mean, God, if you just go back 50, 60 years ago, NBA players were also contractors and plumbers. And they played Jordan was one of the first decks. We start weight training. You know, like he kind of brought that in

Starting point is 01:22:48 and you look at the physicality of LeBron and like just how like strong and like able is to shoot threes and like he's so versatile all over the place. But yeah, like you said, I think like Michael Jordan really brought in ushered in a lot of that to hand off their buttons. But then I so like I that I could defend it both ways. If I go this way, if you put those two guys one on one, LeBron would he would stop them. Yeah, physically and I need to say that. But would LeBron exist of Jordan never

Starting point is 01:23:16 existed? Right. Right. He grew up, he grew up idolizing. That's what I'm saying. Player. Look, it's like Jimmy Hendrix when he played, when he played that feedback with the guitar. Nobody ever heard that before. That's it. Now everybody does it. But when he did it, everybody's like, what the hell? That's why I think that's why you get the edge, in my opinion, when you paved the way.

Starting point is 01:23:36 Yeah, when you paved it first for the rest of the guys to follow the blueprint, you've got to get a little extra credit for that. Even if somebody else surpasses you in accolades, you got to, I mean, if you created it or you were the first to do so many, so many, so many things and got Jordan was the first to do so many, so many great things. So our next caller is Ashley from Iowa. Hi, Ashley. How can we help you? Hi, guys. How are you guys doing? Good. Good. Hey, I the question I want to run by you today is just more or less moving into a phase of life that I hope to be kind of the final just what I end up doing for kind of the rest of

Starting point is 01:24:15 my life in the gym. And I was hoping you could give me some feedback on it. So I've been in I've been in the gym for like 15 years now. So I'm super comfortable in the gym, been using barbells and dumbbells. So nothing, nothing like that is kind of out of the picture for me. But I did have a baby about two years ago. So I now have a toddler. And so I'm kind of trying to figure out what I want to do now that were my lifestyle as well as like continuing to build muscle and get benefits of that, it kind of meet in the middle

Starting point is 01:24:48 if that makes sense. So my question for you is, I tend to eat around maintenance. I do track calories for a while. Right now I mostly focus on protein, but I would say I'm roughly around 22 to 2400 calories for maintenance. And I tend to stick there all year round. But I would like to get the benefits of like a bulk for muscle building.

Starting point is 01:25:15 And I was wondering if it would work to do that without actually changing up my calories. So because I live in Iowa, there's like two to three months out of the year in the winter, where I'm definitely less active than I am the rest of the year. And so I'm burning less calories in those months as opposed to like adding more calories in. I'm burning less, therefore my body essentially has more calories. And I was wondering if during those months, if I could run a program like strong or powerlifting and get the same benefits of building muscle that you would get in a bulk without having to like add calories into my diet. What is your training look like typically leading up so before all that, right, before we

Starting point is 01:26:01 made this mental shift of what you want to do? How do you? For the past 15 years. Yeah. Most while it's 50 50 it's I've been doing aesthetic for a while now. I was in I was in CrossFit for probably seven or eight years. So it's about 50 50. Okay. But for the last sense COVID, I switched over to using LCK and doing more aesthetic type stuff. And then your guys' program since then. So for the past three or four years, it's been mostly like aesthetic. So I think, and did you follow Maps aesthetic? Was that your choice of our programs? Yeah, yep. And I do have anabolic. I do have strong, and 15. I thought like 15 when our daughter was born. Yeah, I was, you'd be surprised, like getting to your original

Starting point is 01:26:50 question about, can I keep my calories the same, but yet still kind of do a bulk? Typically, I'd say no, but if somebody was really active, say CrossFit, say, Maps aesthetic, high volume type of training, moving to a Maps anabolic two times a week, you'd be surprised what you could do with something like that. The hardest part will be the mental shift from somebody who's got an athletic background like you that's been probably hitting the weights pretty hard for a really long time, to

Starting point is 01:27:16 shift from that high volume training to something that's less volume and you'd be surprised what you could do with that. I think that you could do that without having to add a bunch of calories. So what do you, when do your calories sit at before? 22, these two months, you said 2200? Yeah, I would say I only focus on my, I mainly focus on my protein, which is about 170

Starting point is 01:27:39 because that's one for one. And then the fats and carbs kind of fall in line, but I would say I usually hit about 22 to 23. When you get to these two months of less activity, do you gain weight typically? Not that I notice. I mean, I don't step on a scale. So nothing exaggerated.

Starting point is 01:27:58 You'd be surprised how the body adapts to movement when it comes to calories. So I would say you probably want to bump your calories also. You would be surprised. Now the benefit might be more recovery, a little bit of rest, depending on how active you were. I just said, you think if she's training five days a week and she went to two days a week,

Starting point is 01:28:15 that wouldn't do it. That might do it, but that's mostly from the recovery aspect, I would say more than the like I'm burning calories. Like the amount of calories you burn while you exercise. Okay, that's a fair point. Your body adapts really quickly, one way or the other, like I'm burning calories. Like the amount of calories you burn while you exercise. Okay, that's a fair point. Your body adapts really quickly one way or the other,

Starting point is 01:28:27 like really, really quickly. So, there's a period of time where it does, you do get some effects. And she's so low, it's not a big deal. Yeah, and you've been working out for so long, you have a lot of muscle, you're probably really strong. I would say go on a small calorie surplus at the same time and see what happens.

Starting point is 01:28:45 I think if you made the switch though from, you know, if you're training in the more like a five day a week program down to like a two day a week program, it wouldn't take a lot extra calories. You know, you know, 200 calorie bump and that's it. Reduced. Yeah, that's what I would do. You would see a good response from that. Exactly. Perfect. So I could just like through as my year goes on,

Starting point is 01:29:05 or as my years go on, just switch to more of like an anabolic within those winter months. And then kind of to totally. Yep. Yeah. After that. And you're really strong, probably. Yeah. Who is he? That was really all I wanted to know. Absolutely. I mean, and I love the idea that you've already incorporated map 15, because that's the other thing you know, having a-year-old like the benefits of utilizing That way of training too, which is in a sense. It's kind of like anabolic just split up over Five days and broken up in 15 minutes when you really dissect like what we're doing in there

Starting point is 01:29:36 So it's like basically choosing should I lift two or three days a week or do I want to lift every day and just less time? Very similar as far as I'm on there's a little bit more in anabolic if you're doing three days a week or do I want to lift every day and just less time, very similar as far as Vaughn. There's a little bit more in anabolic if you're doing three days a week. Perfect. Perfect. That was really all I wanted to help with. Thank you Ashley. Thanks for calling in. Thanks guys. You got it. Yeah, the whole reducing, uh, she looks strong as fuck. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:58 You could always tell right? Yeah. The reducing calories or be calorie burn, the benefits often come from just the improved recovery, right? You're just allowing your body to recover more and respond more to the muscle building signal. There's a reduction in calorie burn, but that starts to, your body starts to adapt to it pretty quickly. No, you make a good point. And when you're already kind of in the low 2200 calories, it's not a lot. And so when you're talking about what you're saying, it's not a huge bum. Yeah, it's not a huge fluctuation Yeah, it's not a huge Flux, which not to mention if her body does respond and build some muscle her metabolism is gonna speed up a little bit

Starting point is 01:30:30 So she's gonna inevitably have to look she'll get a stronger is what's gonna happen Right. Yeah, I shut that some calories Our next color is Bridget from California. Hi Bridget. How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? Good, good, good. Thanks Thanks for having me. Super excited. This is really cool. I've been listening to the podcast for years. So, I can't wait to ask you. Let's hear it. All right. So, my question is related to quad dominance. I'll give you a little bit of background. I played softball for about eight years when I was growing up,

Starting point is 01:31:10 which is kind of like, I self-diagnosed my quad dominance from softball. Basically, I just would like to know if it's possible to permanently fix quad dominance. What can I do in my workouts and or like everyday life to fix it or activate my glutes more, hamstrings more? Is it possible, can I do it? What can I do if it is?

Starting point is 01:31:39 Yeah, just looking to really balance out my legs a lot more. What makes you think you have quad dominance? What are the things that you see? Visibly, I think I do. This front half of my upper leg is definitely more protrude forward a lot more than the back, as well as when I'm working out, like if I'm doing squats,

Starting point is 01:32:04 my quads totally take over when i'm deadlifting if i don't really prime beforehand then my quads tend to take over it's really just kind of like doing any kind of exercises my quads just totally take over the movement and i can't feel like my hamstrings or glutes or any other part of my leg working. Are you able to break parallel and get real good depth in your squat? I can, however, if I go too low, then it's really just like on the way up, it's all quad. Were you a catcher when you played a... Yeah, I was just thinking something. No, I wish I was cool like that. I

Starting point is 01:32:49 did. I bounced around. I wasn't that great of a player to be honest with you guys. I did play for a while but I was that great. So I was out in like outfield or I did a little bit of first base and third base. Well, I'm only asking because catchers in that that quad stretch position, they're just their quads get so Constantly developed in there. I would start all your lower body workouts with Glute and hamstrings and then move to the other stuff. So it'd be like hip thrust Stiff like a deadlift then I go to squats. Do you hip thrust right now? Yeah, oh man. I just hit a PR doing that Santa Valle with hip-dress and oh my god, I love it

Starting point is 01:33:27 I'm so excited. It was awesome great feeling. Yeah every workout I would start that that involve the lower body. I would start with the posterior chain That's the best way to do it and then end your workout. Okay, you can't even do it like this if your quads are really developed you can even do You know all the posterior chain exercises then do your upper body exercises and then finish with your quad exercises. You could literally deprioritize it that much. I mean, if you could deprioritize

Starting point is 01:33:54 where she's almost not even doing it. If she's got that much dominance there, you can add in an additional hamstring exercise or a good morning or something that's another glute movement instead of the quads. If you're happy with the development of your quads and the primary focus is to build the glutes and the hamstrings, anywhere where we have programs say, you know, sissy squads or more quad-dominant exercises, trade them out for post-ear chain. So trade them out for good mornings, deadlifts, your chain. So trade them out for good mornings, deadlifts, you know, with a conventional or Romanian deadlifts, hip thrust movements like that. There's

Starting point is 01:34:30 nothing wrong with doing that. Okay, yeah. So that's exactly what I've been doing over the past, I don't know, year or so. And it has to lowly work, but I still feel like when I get up to higher reps on certain exercises, like, I'll be great up until like a certain amount and then my quads take over. But I've also, I'm not sure if this really matters or not, if it's really a concern. I've noticed that my quads really aren't that strong to be honest with you. They just take over. I don't know if that makes any sense, but...

Starting point is 01:35:04 Sure. Yeah, literally what I said. Just recruitment patterns. Yeah. And literally what I said, we'll do it. I would start every lower body exercise with all posterior chain stuff. And even avoid quad exercises for a lot of different workouts.

Starting point is 01:35:18 And then you'll slowly start to see things catch up. And really take your time in the beginning to have that isometric sort of firing and allow yourself to get into like a hip bridge position, really squeeze those glutes and hold that for a substantial amount of time until you actually can feel that connection of firmly established and then kind of move your way through and do what they're saying in terms of like really, you know, highlighting the posterior chain and then work your way through the rest of the legs or even avoid, you know, more of the quad type of exercises. But I mean, that's really, you just have to like deliberately program that in and it's going to take some time,

Starting point is 01:35:54 like a year versus what you've done years before. Your body has to learn that this is like the new go to program. Have you ever tried to get really good at single leg deadlifts to? No, I've done it, but yeah, they're pretty tough, but I can, I can try that. That's a good movement to add in there. So we talked about maybe, you know, if you were to eliminate, let's say, leg extensions or a, or a quad dominant exercise, put some single leg deadlifts in there and try and get good at those. Try and get strong at single-A deadlifts.

Starting point is 01:36:29 Start off with your mechanics getting good form and technique. It's great about that exercise when you first slide the hips out. It'll put everything back in those glutes and hamstrings and then the stabilization in the hips, you'll get a lot of benefits from that. Work on getting strong in single-aid deadlifts in addition to all the other stuff that we said, I think that would benefit you a lot. Cool, okay.

Starting point is 01:36:50 What program are you running right now? Matt Santa Ballet, but I swapped out the squats for hip stress. Oh good, yeah, that's great. You're on point, yeah, that's a great call. I loved that program. I did it earlier this year and then I did performance and now I'm back to Antevolic because I liked it so much.

Starting point is 01:37:09 Excellent. Yeah, and I think it's a good fit for it. It is a good fit and it's a good call what you're doing. So I liked that. Okay, so then in my regular life or even in my trigger sessions, should I be paying attention to like how I'm using my legs or is there anything like because you know working out is maybe an hour out of my day a couple hours out of the week. Is there something that I can spend more time on maybe teaching my legs to use different muscles or single leg toe touch. Yes. You can do frog pumper.

Starting point is 01:37:40 You can body weight hip thrusters. All those trigger sessions. Build your trigger sessions around that. All the examples. Single leg toe touch, which is basically helping you get good at the single leg deadlift, right? So if you get really good at that movement pattern, you could do lateral two walks, you could do the frog pumps,

Starting point is 01:37:57 you can just do hip bridges versus your body weight and your squeezing and getting like an isometric contraction where you just hold your hips to top and squeeze your butt. Like, yeah, those would be exactly what I would do for trigger sessions since you're not calling and saying, hey, I want to build my shoulders more because we kind of teach trigger sessions as it's like touch every body part, but for someone like you who has a very specific goal you're trying to develop the backside, I would do a lot of trigger sessions around that.

Starting point is 01:38:23 Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you so much, guys. It's super helpful. I'll do all of those things. Awesome. You've got to bridge it. Perfect. I'll bridge it. Take care. I love it. Yeah, really, this, for anybody who's listening who notices a body part is overdeveloped in comparison to the other body parts. So she's talking about quad dominance, which, either from a functional standpoint, you can have quad dominance, meaning the strength ratio from the hamstrings of the quads is off, this can cause in athletes, lots of hamstring pulls, or just a development standpoint,

Starting point is 01:38:56 like you look at your body and like, you know, my, you know, my steps are way more developed on my triceps, you know, losing balance. Easiest way to address that is to prioritize the body part you want to get the most results out of in the workout. And even the second thing you could do is cut the volume and sets from the dominant body part. And over time you start to see things balance out. I think the most challenging thing for that is when it is specifically the butt versus squads because the exercises like a squat

Starting point is 01:39:26 could be an excellent exercise for the glutes, right? So in your head, you go, I'm gonna prioritize that because it's a great glute builder, and but because you're quad dominant, it's a little bit different than saying, like, hey, I wanna build big biceps, because I have small biceps compared to my triceps. I'm gonna start every workout with my croubles.

Starting point is 01:39:44 You're not gonna get like the tricep kicking in and also doing that, that's gonna work for that. But for someone specifically trying to build the glutes and they're trying to prioritize it, you just need to have some that's way more posterior chain focus, which would be like a deadlift. Or have you been able to do that? The only thing I would add is if like there's a limiting factor

Starting point is 01:40:02 for range of motion, like you can't get into the depth. Really, you know really gain that benefit of your glutes kind of kicking in at that point. And that's where we would need to mobilize the hips, we'd need to mobilize the ankles and whatnot to be able to produce the stability required for you to gain that. Which by the way is really common

Starting point is 01:40:20 with my female athletes that wanna build their butt. They are so quad dominant because a lot of sports require a lot of quad dominance because you're sprinting and running and jumping all the time, right? And you're not jumping through full range of motion. So less glued activation, more quad dominant in that. And then they go to start training. They know that squats are good for building the butt, but then their quads are so, they can only get to 90 degrees. They can't even break the plane,

Starting point is 01:40:48 which is when you break that 90 degrees, so much more that glutes have to activate to get you out of the hole. But even with someone with quad dominance, like the knees could go forward and it could become a quad exercise if you go over the head. Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

Starting point is 01:40:58 You know, it's so lean, play a side. This is why some people are like, oh my god, hip thrust are the best but building an exercise because they don't have trouble have trouble really activating glutes with the squat. That's right. Look, you can find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. I'm on Instagram at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam.

Starting point is 01:41:15 Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps for performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having sour, animal, and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price.

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2141: How to Build the Glutes & Hamstrings When Nothing Seems to Work, the Importance of Adjusting Caloric Intake Based on Activity & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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