Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2170: Inside the Mind of a World Class Personal Trainer With Jordan Syatt

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

In this episode Sal, Adam & Justin speak with world class trainer Jordan Syatt.  Mind Pump’s message of promoting the BEST trainers in the world. (1:44) His approach to health & fitness since becoming a father. (3:33) Being hyper-aware that your child is constantly downloading information. (7:15) How his business has changed, and the rise of fitness influencers. (11:05) Why access to too much information can be a bad thing. (19:02) The most important things he communicates to his clients. (24:37) Why is the fitness industry failing? (30:40) The importance of telling the TRUTH. (34:32) The welcome change of strength training in the gym. (40:45) His thoughts on companies like F45 or Orangetheory. (46:07) The difference between hating on a movement pattern vs. effort or intensity. (47:09) The prerequisites of being a great coach or trainer. (50:28) Jordan’s general guidelines around nutrition. (57:02) The reasoning behind his 30-day spiking blood sugar experiment. (1:06:16) How does he feel about education with his kid? (1:16:20) Communicating the value of actively pursuing religion and spirituality. (1:20:49) His relationship and fears around money. (1:39:09) The big picture with his business. (1:49:57) A deep dive into Jordan’s business and financial streams. (1:55:24) The biggest roadblocks for people in the industry. (2:08:43) Where would he be without fitness? (2:12:43) Misconceptions that keep people out of the gym. (2:15:07) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Entera Skincare for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save.** September Promotion: MAPS Symmetry | RGB Bundle 50% off! **Code SEPTEMBER50 at checkout** Live to 100: Secrets of the Blue Zones - Netflix So, Here’s A Giant List Of All The Dumb Stuff I’ve Ever Done (Don’t Worry, I’ll Keep Updating It) Mind Pump #2155: The Art & Science Of Building Perfect Butts With Bret Contreras Visit NutriSense for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP at checkout** The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Guided Journal – Book by Stephen Covey MAPS Old Time Strength Mind Pump #1735: Worst Fitness Myths That Keep People Out Of Gyms Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Jordan Syatt (@syattfitness) Instagram Website Jordan Peterson (@jordan.b.peterson) Instagram Ben Shapiro (@BenShapiro)  Bret Contreras PhD (@bretcontreras1) Instagram Sean Lowe (@seanloweksu) Instagram Eric Cressey (@EricCressey) 

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we talked to one of the world's best personal trainers. Jordan Siett, he really knows what he's doing. He's very good, extremely successful in business, in the fitness business, but also with the success of his clients.

We really like to hire, excuse me, highlight the best trainers in the world because their insight is so valuable for those you trying to get more fit or get leaner or improve your health. And of course, those of you who are trainers more fit or get leaner or improve your health. And of course those of you who are trainers and coaches, listen up, Jordan lays it out. He tells you how to become successful, the things to focus on, and the things to not focus on. So we know you're gonna love this episode.

Now it's brought to you by one of our sponsors, in Terra Skincare. These are skincare products fortified with peptides. That's right, if you've heard about peptides, they're pretty remarkable. These are skincare products fortified with peptides. That's right, if you've heard about peptides, they're pretty remarkable. These are skincare products for your skin that improve the vitality and health of your skin through using peptide technology.

You won't find this stuff anywhere else. Check them out, go to enterisksyncare.com that's ENT, ERA, skincare.com, forward slash MPM. E and T, E R A, skincare.com forward slash M PM, then use the code M PM for 10% off your order. We also have a sale going on this month. Maps Symmetry is half off and the RGB bundle is half off. You can find both of them at maps fitness products.com. Just use the code September 50 for that 50% off discount. All right, here comes the show. Jordan, so it's been a long time since we saw you.

Well, I didn't realize it was almost four years. Yeah, it's like four years. All right, catch us up. What's happened since then? What's happened with your business, personal life? Oh, man, well, I'll say this. I'll start by saying it's great to be back. Awesome.

It's do you look amazing? I also want to say a huge thank you to all of you because I've seen a number of times, you guys showed me out pretty frequently. And you always have really nice things to say and it means the world to me. And I appreciate you very much. I really from the bottom of my heart.

So thank you for having me out again. Thank you for all the kind words. Thank you. You got great content, man. Thank you. Thank you. One of our goals is it was to always has been, and still is, is to try to highlight the good voices

in the space because there's so much bad stuff. Yeah. And the only way to beat it is with people who've got great information, who communicate it well, you're one of those people. So anytime we get the opportunity, we'll make sure we reach out.

I get it for sure. I get people messaging me like, hey, you got to shout out to my pump today and like, it just, it means a lot. So I think you and I think you guys are amazing. You're the best in the industry for a reason. So we got to slow it down, or else people are going to think it's paid or something.

Yeah. All right, they say it's not. You say that all, man? No, no, really. We really like it. But you're just a content machine, though. I mean, you're constantly putting out. I mean, I know that Gary Ve model early,

before a lot of people in the fitness space. So you've been pumping out good content for a long time, man. I'm tired, man. Did you see him like you slowed down, though. Ever since the kid you've slowed down? Yeah, a lot. Yeah. It's one of those things where it's just, it's not as important. It's like it's way more important to have lunch with my daughter and my wife. Like we're instead of just sitting down and making a piece of content. Like I want to sit there and see if she's going to eat avocado. Yeah. You know, like, can I watch her face? She doesn't like avocado right now,

so she has like scrunchy face. Like, it's the priorities change. And it's those little moments where it's like, I would rather sit down with them than make content. So. Have any of your approaches or opinions or ideas changed around fitness and health and nutrition since having a child?

Does that change anything for you? Because I did for me for a few different things. Um, you know, my own personal approach for sure, especially from the perspective of just, I don't have as much time, right? Like before I had all the time in the world to train, I only have one kid, never mind, people who have multiple kids and I can work from home.

And so never mind multiple kids and you're working out, you got to commute to work. So for me personally, my approach has just been like getting it in spurts throughout the day. Oftentimes, sometimes I've increased the groove approach in some ways with my strength, with my cardio. It's also increased the groove in the perspective of it's not

just at one point in time. Like I'll interspersed it throughout the day. So my own personal approach has just been, I don't need to have one long session, but otherwise, it's not that I ever didn't agree with that, it's just I didn't need to do that before. So my own schedule has changed. Yeah, have you, do you,

because I remember this when I had kids, it's like I became hyper aware of how, I knew this before, but not, I wasn't nearly as aware, I was after I became a aware of how I knew this before, but not I wasn't nearly as aware as I was after I became a father of that. The default, if you just live a normal life, the default is such poor health. And I became super aware of it because now I've got these people that I'm so,

yeah. You know, I love so much and I care about so much. How do you approach that? She's only your daughter's what, one? She just turned one, yeah. Yeah, so are you thinking about that? Like how do I prepare this person for this world where if she doesn't live in a strange different way,

she's gonna be unhealthy? I think about it constantly, probably to a fault. It's nonstop in my head. I think about it from the perspective of I wanna live as long as I can to be here for her and make sure that she's prepared. So, I mean, I think about it from the perspective of, like, we're getting Jujitsu mats in our house

so that like she can defend herself and like, from the like, it's one of those things like, when I started Jujitsu, there's a girl at the Academy of Training at she's 16, her name's Vanessa. If, and I'm not saying this, like, I have 10 year wrestling background, high level power lift, like strong guy,

I've done Jujitsuitsu now for four years. I'm not making this up, that this girl, if her and I actually got into a combat situation, she would fucking destroy me. That's awesome. And it's one of those things where it's like, and she's never lifted weight in her life. And so for me, yes, I want my daughter to strength train, I want her to be healthy. And there's so many things to balance there, but it's also thinking from the perspective of,

I want her to be able to defend herself, which is like so many other aspects come into play there. So I think about it all the time, from nutrition perspective, from a mental health perspective, and I'm sort of all over the place with it. Like I'm like constantly trying to figure things out, watching her, how am I speaking about this food,

how am I speaking about exercise? She's, I have my wife and I, like, within the last 72 hours have realized that she's watching us and she's only one. Like, she's doing, this is what happened. She picked up the TV, she can't walk yet. So, like, she can crawl and she can, like, cruise, like holding onto things. She picked up the TV remote and pointed it at the TV.

I was like, that is wild to me. I was like, that she knows that's what we do. We take their remote. She doesn't know we push the button. She just picked it up and pointed at it. I was like, that's crazy. So with the fact that she's already watching and understanding like, being aware of, what am I putting in my mouth, what food am I eating?

Is she watching me exercise? Is she watching me get up early and go on a walk? Like she's watching. So just that has changed my entire idea of my daily habits matter a lot. It's funny you say that because one of the most common questions I could ask is, you know, for advice for new parents and the thing that I say the most consistently is you have to become hyper aware that they

are downloading everything that you do. Do not think for a minute that because that kid can't speak to you and articulate the one. In fact, I have this belief that because they can't talk, that all their other senses are heightened. So they are just processing all this stuff that they're trying to figure it out and they can't communicate and so they listen, they see really what they and they're just downloading and sucking up all information. So, you know, when you're talking to your wife, you know, be aware of how you talk and communicate and forever, be aware of the habits that you do in front, like they are like little sponges and you are already starting to create that foundation

and that main frame of how they're gonna operate. You don't know how intuitive you are. The data that they show now is because, so children, their job is to be hyper aware of the environment, the mood, and everything about their parents because you're the caretaker. So that's literally what they do better than anything. They notice everything. Even if they can't

verbalize it and process it, their bodies react, and their brains mold themselves around my sense. I know. So crazy. Contrinen and I had a situation when Max was around one year, one year's old, where, and we were, you know, at that point, we were talking about like, how blessed we are that it was this good, behaving kid and he doesn't act out, he doesn't throw things and do this stuff that, and we were actually talking, she works for the company. So we're talking about the business one day. It's like in the later afternoon, it's like after dinner, and he's kind of sitting down doing something and she is, her and I are talking it, and we're like, we're disagreeing about something with work. And I'm like, no, no,

I want this way. We're not even like, we're not yelling, but we are like going back and forth. And that is the only time he had, that was the first time at that point that he'd ever experienced anything like that. And I actually watched him go to the coffee table and swipe the stuff off. And that was like the first time he'd ever done something

similar to that. What was so great though was that both of our, we both turned and looked, we would pay to the goes Oh, wow. He thinks like we're fighting right now and so we went right over to him to play with him So that but it just made us aware like I'm like wow how often does that happen to a couple especially when they're really fighting It was luckily we're just talking business It was very easy for us to stop that moment and realize like wow That's how how much that can affect him and his behavior as he doesn't recognize what's going on behind between mom and dad.

They've never communicated this way before and he acts out and it's like, whoa, like, how often is that happening in households where you're so into this argument or fight with your spouse and your kid is in ear shot away and he's trying to get your attention and you just ignore it because of course you're in the middle of a fight. That was a big moment for us to be like, damn, they're way more aware than I think people realize. Yeah, especially how you speak to your partner,

because you're essentially showing them what to expect in their own partner in the future and their friends and all of that. Jordan Peterson had a great bit that I saw. Basically, he was answering the question of, is it okay to argue in front of your children? He was like, it's not the question of, is it okay to argue?

The question is number one, like how you speak to each other, but also did you reconcile? That's it. It's the, and I think it's equally important in terms of how you're arguing, but also if you show that you can reconcile after an argument, it's such an important thing

because so many relationships and so many people have explosions just because they can't reconcile. So I think it's so important, especially even before they can talk, like you said, it's super interesting. Well, they're getting ready for the world. So they're gonna go through that. And it's like, oh, this is how it is. You reconcile afterwards, you refer.

Not like, I'm done, fight out of here. Right. It's time to deal. So yeah, it's crazy stuff. What about your, how's your business changed? It's definitely grown. I mean, you're constantly grown. You're doing a great job. What's happened over the last few years

that's changed with that? So thank God, it's going really well. So last time I was here, I had my inner circle, which is like my membership for fitness. I've also created a membership for coaches with my buddy, Mike Vikanty. Oh, cool. So he's actually coaching Gary. He's Gary's coach. But we have a basically bombarded with ads from all these gurus like six figure businesses done, like high ticket, and we're just like, fuck this, it's so annoying.

So we basically made another affordable option for coaches to learn how to be good coaches. It's not just about, we don't talk about ads, we don't talk about any of that stuff, it's literally like, how do you program design? How do you do nutrition coaching? How do you understand behavior change? We have bits on social media and all of that,

but the majority of it is how to be a good coach. Do you think, so I just think about this the other day, because it wasn't like this before. I didn't, I never saw, I've been doing this for a long time. I never saw ads for companies, teat that advertise coaching or training as a way to make a lot of money that didn't exist before. Yeah. And most trainers that I know who got into the business back then or coaches, they didn't do it because they want to make a lot of money. They did it because of the passion. Exactly.

For helping people. In fact, when I was a general manager, one of the hardest things I ever did was to teach them that, yeah, you have to learn how to sell. And I don't want to sell. I just want to help people. Well, you're not going to be able to help people. You've got to survive. You can't sell.

Do you think that this push now, well, this is how you can make a lot of money, is starting to bring in coaches and trainers who might not have the same passion because they look at it and they're like, oh, I like to work out and it's a great way to make money. So be sure to set. I absolutely that.

I think what's happened is, and there's so many different facets, but I think, when I first got an online coaching, so I started online, like my online business in in 2011 and before I knew an online business as possible I was just doing it because I saw Eric Cressy and Dan John and Joel Jamie sin and Mike Roberts and all these people making content I was like okay all open my gym one day, but they have a website so I'll do the same thing and I think now online coaching is it's Very common. It's super common. And I think people are hiring an online coach and they're getting

results. They're like, I could do that. And so they're like, they see that they worked with an online coach. They got their macros, they got their workout, and they're like, oh, I can do this. And then they don't know about program design. They don't know about individuality. They don't know about any of this stuff. And so like, I remember I had one woman reach out and she was like, she was 22. She was like, I'm getting really bored of writing programs. I was like, you're 22. You're getting bored of writing programs. And I asked, I was like, how many books on program design have you read? And she was, she goes, books. And I was like, yeah, books on program design, not like Instagram

Reels or like how many books have you read on it? She's like, none. So I gave her a big lesson to her credit. She's crushed it and she's doing great now. But I think a lot of people are coming into it because they got coached once or twice and then think, oh, this will be a great business for me, not because they love coaching, but because they got results and they think it's going to be easy to do the same thing. You know what this reminds me of? In the late 90s, early 2000s, a franchise moved into the gym space called Curves.

And they became the number one franchise very quickly. And what it was, for people who don't know, was a circle of pneumatic equipment, a very small studio. It was advertised just to women. They exploded because they were tapping into a segment of the market that the gyms weren't able to tap into. But then what happened was people saw that they made

a lot of money very quickly. Members in particular who followed curves for six months, oh my God, it's great, I'm gonna open one myself. And you had this explosion and then this crash. Because fitness, in my opinion opinion has to be led by people with a deep passion for fitness. Otherwise, it won't work. Do you think the coaching space is gonna go through that

where you're having this huge influx of people? And a lot of them are gonna be like, oh wait, this isn't working because I just wanna do this for money and it's actually a lot harder than I thought. Yeah, I think it's happening. We're just not acutely aware of it. Like I can't begin to tell you, they've been so many people who've started and then stopped.

I've seen it over and over and over again. They've, I'm gonna start a business and then stop. And I think there's just the ease of access. It's easier now than ever before. So there's always new people coming in. We don't see the drop like we would in curves because it's not in person. It's not like a brick and mortar business.

This one has those numbers. Like they had franchise numbers. Exactly. I think here is just people are joining Instagram or people are starting their fitness page and they post for two days and they don't get a client and then they stop. And then they start like,

I don't know why I didn't get a client. I look at their page, it's like, well, you post a picture of your pickup truck. Of course you get a fucking client. And you post it like two pictures. It's like, so I just, I think it's happening all the time. So the churn rate is huge. It's just, we're not going to see it as in like one big spike and then one big drop.

I just think it's happening all the time. Do you, do you, do you think it's possible to be a good coach and go directly into online coaching first or do you think that it requires in person first? What's your thought on that? I'm assuming an unpopular opinion, but I think if you haven't coach people in person at all, then you can't be the best coach. That's exactly what we've said forever. Yeah, I don't understand. There's too much nuance that you learn through the process of, because you could take, this is the part that's so unique, is that you could take literally 10 people, same age, same goal, same as you same everything.

And yet, the programming, the diet, everything could be completely different. And then even then break it down even further, just still to the cues for the exercises. All 10 will be unique on how you have to communicate all three of those major parts of being successful. That's really hard to kind of figure out just getting dropped into the internet world

where you don't get to practice that and figure that in person. I've always seen a deficit for real movement coaches too. It's always been like, it kind of made sense for me from an aesthetic perspective to like, you do your pictures, you do macros, and you're able to kind of coach them nutritionally, but actually, like good coaching and being able to see

a lot of those nuances in their movement, it's really difficult to do via video. One thing I know too, like from a lot of these people too, I think might be part of the problem is that they get in this transformation, they look great, and they post about it, they get so much attention, everybody's like hitting them up. They're like, can you tell me what you did? Can you coach me on this?

Are you finding that as like a commonality that you see with new coaches in the space coming in is that they were just asked to do it? All the time. It's like, oh, you look really good. People ask me, like, I'm doing a cut right now. People are like, what are your calories? What are you eating? Look at batters, right? I'm like, that is irrelevant.

Yeah. Like, I'm talking about the principles of what you need to do. Stop asking like, and people like, can you do it? Oh, would I eat in a day? Never. Yeah, that's our total. It's our fucking hate that conscience. You know, that's, you know, it's crazy though. And I thought you had the same experience. That gets the most. The most, the most. If I post my food for the day, and I tell people, and it's like, but you guys don't understand,

like it doesn't matter what I'm doing. It doesn't matter. Even if the same food is great, it's the same way where I work out. It's not gonna necessarily work for you, you know? And even if it does, it doesn't mean you have the answers, you know what I say. And when I post something,

like if I'm gonna have something, and I post it, if I post something, people are like, but why? I'm like, cause I fucking want it. Like it doesn't something, like if I'm gonna have something, and I post it, if I post something, people are like, but why? Because I fucking want it. It doesn't need, everything doesn't need, okay, well, the free radicals are gonna be like, I'm like, it's just, I don't know, there's protein and carbs, and there's fiber.

That's really what I wanted in this meal, and there are a million different options, and this is what I had available today. You've been doing this a long time, like, just, do you feel like we have made it more difficult and over complicated it for the average person? Yes, it's so much. So much.

And it's, yeah, unfortunately. And I think it's, when I was coming up, it was very difficult to get information. And I say, very is it in quotes, because before me it was even more difficult. Like, there were barriers. There were barriers. Like, you had to go to the library and

you had to take out a book. And if you wanted access to pure viewed papers, like, you had to either be at a university or pay for it, or, uh, now it's like, I go on Instagram and there's non-stop information. And people will send me screen recordings or screen shots of,

like me saying, it's okay to have an apple and then the next video down Is some other fun to be like don't have an apple and that so but and both people are giving scientific reasoning for it So it's very confusing and this it now it's it's the excess information that is making it way more over complicated. Yeah Well, okay, so There's two points I want to make is the first one is personal training or coaching in person is one of those few jobs where it's like baseball where if you bat 300 you're doing a good job. Like if 30% of your clients achieve permanent success, yep, you're crushing it as a trainer. Now you want to coach people online and never meet them

in person and work with them. You've just, It's exponentially more challenging to do so. So we've always said, if you want to be a good online coach, you've got to do it in person because you're only making it that much more challenging. You haven't figured it out. In person, you're not going to be able to figure it out online. And that's most important. The second comment I want to make is, you said there's too much information. Here's a big problem I see, and I would love your commentary on this, is that our space gets so caught up

in the who's more right tribalism. The study said this, no, but my experience says this, no, but for bodybuilding, it's this. No, but strength athletes and coaches do this, and no, it's that the average person isn't hearing the basics that they need to apply. What they hear is all this insanity and they're like, okay, well, he said coffee's good, but then they said my adrenals aren't good. And then fasting in this study showed it was great, but they said it's not good for

my cortisol. And then this guy says eat carnivore because it's good for autoimmune issues. But then this guy brought up studies shows it's connected to I'm not doing anything. Yeah. I'm not doing anything at all too hard. I feel like we're too scattered and we're not all working together. Yes. You feel okay. And you know, it's so funny. The studies thing is very interesting to me. Yeah. Because before the only people who had access to studies were people who had some semblance of knowledge and the new how to find studies. Even then, though, you were still able to cherry pick, I've been playing the chat GPT,

and I can go on and be like, hey, is there a study showing X, Y, or Z? Yes. You can find a study to prove before. You can link me to that study, and it will send me the pub medley. On both sides. On both sides.

So now anybody can say, well, here's a study saying this and it's like, now you have to actually go in and you have to actually read the study and explain the issues, but they're not gonna fucking listen. It's, yeah, it's, people are, and there are some really, there's some great content around it. I've seen some people make content where you've got, I don't know, someone being like, all right, never eat, never eat fruit,

serve vegetables, they're about to eat an apple, and then they like, all right, well, throw the apple away. It's one of my favorite little fruit for them. It's like, you go through like five things in the day and they end up eating ice cubes. Exactly, yeah. It's like, it's true.

It's because no matter what, there's gonna be some of them. You should never have this, you should never have that. It's one of the things that actually really pisses me off that people do actually kind of get after somebody who does this is, it's, you'll, we have so much content, we have so many friends in the space that are putting out good content, that there's gonna, you're gonna find something

that we communicate differently, and I hate when someone will take a piece of your content, DM me and be like, well, what do you think about this? Because it's so weird. It's just like, you were looking at the wrong thing. Like, what are you saying is right, but you're focusing on like one aspect of how we're both communicating

and he's communicating with them totally different for a different situation and so are we. It's like, both people are right. Or both people are wrong, however you want to look at it. It's like, I'm going to give you a great example. Did you watch, I watched a couple episodes of that, there's a series now on Netflix. What was it called?

Blue Zone one? Yeah, I was about like 100 years. Yeah, I was like, I had a live-along time. I remember it was called. I haven't seen it. It's really good, right? So what they're doing is they're going through the world's blue zones, which by the way,

there's some controversy around that even, but whatever, they definitely, people definitely do live longer in a lot of these areas. Like as they're based Japan. Yeah, it's like Sardinia, Okinawa, Loma Linda, the seventh day of intense. And he's going through and he's highlighting the way that these people live in each area, and what may be playing a role, and why they live so long.

But even the way they communicate is confusing, for example, in Sardinia. This is an island off the coast of Italy. They found the highest concentration of centarians was strongly related to the altitude of the town that they lived in. And so people are going to get confused about that. Reality what it is is people are walking up a lot of stairs. Yeah, exactly. Every day to go home and go to the grocery store.

We got a move. Right. Then they were showing other stuff that are like, oh, they eat this food and it's very high in any oxen. But oh, but in Okinawa, they this other thing that's really got all these fights for radicals and it's got all this fiber and all that stuff. But the commonality, here's what they're not communicating, they all don't eat processed food. Yeah. That's pretty much kind of what it boils down to. What are some of the most important basic things

you like to communicate to people to kind of simplify the whole damn thing? Yeah. I mean, things you like to communicate to people to kind of simplify the whole damn thing. Yeah, I mean, so walk movement is number one, sleep is number two, strength training. I know this is all crazy shit. I also, I actually tell people now more than I remember, like stop watching the news. I think it's one of the most important things. That's actually a really cool one to keep in the top five of like this is like for health. For mental health. Yeah. And I, it's to keep in the top five of like, this is like for health. For mental health. Yeah. And I, it's not even just mental.

I, so I, I like tracking my blood pressure. It's been a big thing for me. You're doing that thing right now. That's actually really cool. And so I've, I've tested on myself weeks where I watch the news and weeks where I don't and my blood pressure is significantly higher on weeks when I watch the news versus when I don't.

Which is like, that's no joke. You're chronically elevated blood pressure versus chronically healthy blood pressure just from the only change, not my diet, not exercise, not sleep, just news. It's like, I have no doubt that people who are just sit down watching CNN, Fox, whatever it is all day, their blood pressure is higher and they're more like it have a heart attack stroke.

Okay, that stuff. Here's a question. Obviously, makes people feel crappy. I think people know that right now people listening are like, yeah, totally. I can't understand it. Why do we do it? Why do people keep doing it? It's, there's, that's a great question.

I've, the, the number one, this pissing me off so much. The number one issue that people have when I say that, and it's not common, I'd say maybe 3% of people will say it, but it's a very privileged thing for you to say. Meanwhile, I'm like, all right, well, you're saying, my go-to comment is like, well, you're replying on your smartphone that I have a very privileged point of view, is very privileged of you, and then I'll be like,

do you see how that doesn't help the situation? Just saying something is privileged doesn't actually accomplish anything. It's like, if you're in a situation where you have a smartphone, and you can talk to me through the internet, you're also very privileged. But doesn't accomplish any help us get to the bottom

of the point to the thing we're trying to discuss. So I think people will do it because they feel like, either if they don't watch it, then they're going to be getting hurt. There's gonna be a serious issue if they don't watch it, or they feel, and I've voiced this, but I think they feel some level of virtuousness from watching it.

Are you informed? Yeah, I'm informed. Exactly. And Denzel watching his amazing quote, like if you don't watch the news, you're uninformed, but if you do watch the news, you're misinformed. It's just like, it's super smart. And I think they feel like, okay,

well, I'm informed on these issues. So I feel better about myself. It's like, but what are you doing about it? You know what it is? What we're fighting, I think this is a general statement that covers a lot. What we're fighting is primitive for lack of better term behaviors and the way we evolved in an environment that completely doesn't match. So in other words, if you're in a tribe,

which we were for hundreds of thousands of years, just recently we moved out of that, right? In terms of the time modern humans have been on earth, if you're in a tribe, you are going to be attracted to bad news because you have to. It's like, it would be like bad news you got from your neighbors. Like your neighbors come to you and they're like, hey dude, there's a bear in the neighborhood where there's a guy breaking into houses. Yeah, you have to know. So you're attracted to it. The problem is that has expanded to the world. And there's always crazy shit happening in the world because it's billions of people in the numbers game. Yes. Just like, you know, how we're we've made life easy for us physically because that used to be bad for us. We used to get hurt. It was back breaking labor. It

really did damage us because it just was horrible. And then we went so far in the other action now where we you have to schedule movement movement, otherwise you're going to die. Same thing with food also. So it's literally like we have to navigate what we've done to the world in a way that benefits our, you have to be aware, basically, of our behaviors. That's why I think we're attractive. One of the reasons why we're attracted to bad news is we've evolved to watch on this bad news.

It's addictive too. I'll notice myself just being like continue the death scroll on social media. I'm like, what am I doing? I don't need to know about this awful thing that happened. Like, seven countries, like, I don't need to know this. Like that one family, like, it sucks. But I keep seeing all these terrible things pop up and it's addictive to get sucked into it

and then you feel terrible makes your day worse. Like, it's bad. How was that transition for you? Like, that was another thing that changed for me once it became a father was I became Hyper aware of my own Patterns on the phone and stuff like that because now I know this kid is watching me and just like you said Well, emulate what I'm doing already even at one like have you noticed a difference in your own behavior

There are things that you've put in as far as practices to like I don't want to I don't want her to see me on the phone Or are you doing anything different than you were before? Yeah, so it's not that I don't want her to see me on the phone because like that number one that's impossible and number two, like she's going to use a phone. Right. For me, it's more just when I'm with her, I am not looking at my phone while I'm with her in terms of like if I'm having a conversation with her, like as much as we can, ready for playing, I'm not also on my phone. It's I'm with you and you matter and this conversation or this moment is between us, not

us and then also me interacting with other people. That for me is the number one thing where for what I would do, one thing I didn't like when I was a kid is is if my dad was on the phone when we were in the car, like we'd get in the car immediately, he'd call a friend. And so like there wasn't much communication. So that's, will be something for me is when we're in the car, will use that as time to talk. I don't want to get one of those cars with the TVs in the back of the seats because like I want to have a conversation.

So with the phone, especially, it's not that I can't use it when, or she shouldn't see me, it's just, when I'm talking with you, it's just you. And that's it. I had an experience like that where my son was playing. I'm like, always playing over there, I'll be on my phone, and then I looked up, and I noticed that every once in a while, he'd look up to check.

Oh, crushed me. Oh, yeah. So now I'm trying to be more aware. You know, what's interesting when we talk about all these different issues, look, for all intents and purposes, chronic health issues seem to be getting worse. Yes.

People are obesity's gone up. Cancer rates, although we figured out how to work with cancers to an extent, once we get them, we're still getting them at higher rates, dementia and Alzheimer's going up. Mental illness is exploded. Basically, all chronic health issues have gotten worse. And we figured out how to band-aid them or maybe treat some of them a little better with modern medicine, but if they're still getting worse, meanwhile the fitness industry simultaneously

has grown, has made more money, has sold more products, more people are aware of, I guess, exercise and diet than ever. What are we doing wrong? What the hell, why are we failing? Because I think, for, I think of all markets, we have the answers, we actually do. If you scoward every market, the one that actually has the best answers for all these problems is our space. Where are we going wrong?

Why are people getting worse while we continue to grow? Man, it's a great question. There's like so many different things going through my mind. I'll talk about something that stuck out to me. So I family in Israel, we go to Israel at least a couple times a year. And one thing about whenever I go to another country, whether it's Israel or somewhere in the UK, whatever it is, it's never as convenient as the United States is. And the United States is, it's amazing. It's incredible, partly because it's so convenient. There's so much

innovation, but you can get anything delivered to your door immediately. You don't really have to get out like it and when we go to Israel There's so much more of a focus on family. There's a focus on movement. There's a focus on like There are things now where you can order it and deliver it directly to your door, but most people, they value getting up, moving, going somewhere, spending the day at the beach. It's much more about living as opposed to trying to reduce the time spent doing something else so you can sit on your couch more. And so I think if I'm really thinking about

from a lifestyle perspective, I just think things have gotten so easy for us that it's like people always want like what I wanna do less, I wanna do less, I wanna do less. I think it's more of a mindset. And there are some really amazing coaches we're putting out, I mean, look at the popularization of David Goggins, like just go hard, be hard.

I think we're craving it, but so many people are just stuck and feel stuck and that like they, everything is convenient, so it's more difficult to move. You just hit on my theory on why we've seen in the last decade OCR explode, Spartan and all those, because I think deep down we crave that and we need that. Yes. And we don't even, because if you think about it for a second,

like how ridiculous that is that you pay money to a place to go crawl through mud, get in freezing water, you know what I'm saying? Get through burning hoops. Yes. Like you actually, you paid it for that. Like imagine being, you know, 300 years ago, somebody like you go time traveling and coming in and then

you're like, wait, these people are all paying for this. But it's like, that's how we've gotten so far from that. We'll move from that. You know, be interested because you make that point about other countries. And I feel the same way. When you go to Europe, when you eat out, it's like a four hour process. Even the waiters and waitresses, they don't even serve you the same way. If you're an American and you go somewhere like that, you have to learn to like be okay with like your waiter might not come by for another like

Yes, exactly. Well here they bring you the big hours Yeah, they're like trying to pump they're trying to pump you out to get to next table I feel like they made the seats uncomfortable. So it's fast It's so like so it'd be interesting to see With that aligns with my my my theory on the OCR if there's like a higher enrollment here in the America, because we're so far away from it, maybe a lower enrollment. Well, you guys are talking about it as a culture, and I agree with that. How the hell do you change the culture?

You know, I want to ask you, because you communicate health and fitness appropriately, and effectively, that's a very tough combination. It's hard to sell the right thing, the right way, and be effective because you're constantly countering the easier, faster, take this pill, flashy type of message. How have you found success? And the reason why I want you to answer this is because we have coaches and trainers listening right now.

Yeah. And I know they're tempted to build their business what appears to be the easy way. Yeah. And what business, what appears to be the easy way. Yeah. And what you are doing appears to be the hard way, but yet here you are extremely successful. I like communicate that. How did you do that selling these ideas the right way and why wouldn't you want to sell the wrong way?

So there are many reasons why you don't want to sell the wrong way. Like, you're sold being one of them but like what I For me lately I like to look at comments that I get on whether there's Instagram YouTube whatever podcast and Look for common trends and the most common trend that I've really enjoyed seeing in the last few years is I Appreciate how really you are. It's the word real and I think that it's more common now for people to be lied to and for people to be sold something fake. And not even just a product, but

the personality who they are is fake. And I think by being just honest and saying, and being who you are and being truthful, you automatically stand out. Which is unique now, it's bizarre nowadays. That person is actually telling me the truth in a very vulnerable, honest, authentic way. And the word authentic is so thrown around now. It's become inauthentic now to use it. But I very much believe, one one thing I've worked on,

very, very hard is doing my absolute best to say just be honest, just say the truth, no matter what. And Jordan Peterson has been a huge influence on me for this, it's like, if you can just be about how you feel, what you're thinking, what you're going through, you automatically stand out, just by telling the truth. I'm gonna add a chair, I'm gonna add to that, just to really nail it down.

If you, for you to be an effective coach, forget all the information that you talk about that might be right or wrong, forget about all your methods, that's also important. But before any of that has to happen, the person has to trust you. They don't trust you, it doesn't matter. You can be telling them everything properly,

and right, and this is the right way to do it, and they're just not gonna believe you. In fact, you gave some tips earlier. Like, move more, lift some way, right? Basic stuff. Now, if somebody didn't trust you, they'd be like, yeah, he's not telling us the real secrets, he wants me to hire him.

Right, right. You know, whatever the deal is. So they have to trust you, he's not telling us the real secrets. He wants me to hire him. Right, right. Whatever the deal is. So they have to trust you first. People trust people that seem real. Okay. What is real? Real is, I don't know the answer sometimes. Real is, wow, here's how I mess up.

Oh, yes. Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. Not posting pictures of yourself because you're crying, which is not real. Look at my skin rolls. That's not no. It's like, yeah.

It's literally saying, hey, I don't, I don't remember the first learning that as a trainer where client asked me a question. I said, you know, I don't know the answer to that, but let me find out. Right. And I remember being scared to say that and I remember the impact that had on my client.

They're like, oh my god, they trust me now. Yes. Once they trust you, you can guide them. They don't trust you, you ain't going anywhere. So that's just a little triumph. I'm glad you said that because that's a good, it's being able to admit you're wrong, being able to make your mistake.

People will automatically trust you more. Just if you can say, oh, I didn't know that or I made a mistake, that's 100%. Or even just making a list of here, the things that I was wrong about previously. We've, I think it's Ben Shapiro who has Shapiro who has a whole website dedicated to things that he said that he- It was wrong. And I might be incorrect, but I think it's true.

It's like a whole thing. That's cool. That's just like, hey, these are all things I said that were actually wrong or incorrect or things I don't believe now. I use one of the most amazing things you can do. And it's cool. And maybe once every three to five months, I'll make a post like, here are things I used to think, here's what I think now, and this is why.

And it's like, I think it's really good to have that. So what I'm hearing from all of you right now is that, to me it sounds like true vulnerability. Like when you are, when you're able to be honest about something when it may or when it may not support you, or help you, right? Yes. Like saying you're wrong, there's a good chance

that that's not going to help your business or you won't be able to profit from that. It won't be a good pot. Or people might judge you because you say that. What's the irony? It'll actually be better. Yeah, that is the irony. That is the irony, but it's like, to me,

that's what I'm hearing is like being real is being vulnerable in a situation when it may not serve you. It's yet still being true to your side. It is him, you're right, he just pulled it up. That's cool. And I think another thing that's important to clarify, it's number one is I think these are,

this is what I think we all wish politicians would do. Yeah, right. You would, right? It's like we all crave that. Just say you made a fucking mistake, just say it. But they don't, they always blame it on the other side. You not see it, you know, right? Just admit it.

Yeah, and then, and then the other thing I think is very important with this conversation, because people will be like, okay, so be vulnerable. And the look at vulnerability is a tactic. Vulnerability is not a tactic. The vulnerability itself crimes. Yeah, oh my God, that's the worst. Who does that?

It picks up a phone when the crime is, dude, it says it better capture this. I, that is the most nauseating thing when they're like, okay, I'm crying. It's the most narcissistic strange. It's the war, yeah, it's not a tactic, it's just the truth. It's fucking weird. It's, yeah.

It's like, what in your mind and you think that you're being vulnerable with your audience is like, no, you literally thought about grabbing your phone to record when you're supposedly in a very emotional state. Like, that is nothing authentic. like, no, you literally thought about grabbing your phone to record when you're supposedly in a very emotional state, like that is nothing authentic or gross. It's gross, I hate that. I absolutely.

If any of you guys point a phone at me while I'm crying, I'm laughing that phone right here. But even that is different. Like me, like seeing that and then recording you. But you do this? Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's not real. We were just flocking. I wasn't asking It's like, yeah, it's not. We're just fucked.

I wasn't asking this because there's been, you know, you've been doing this since 2011. I started my website in July 2011. Okay. So you've been doing this now for over 10 years. There has been this, what seems to be huge and welcome shift in exercise or at least the mainstream view of exercise. For a long time, forever, strength training was never the mainstream view of exercise. For a long time, forever, strength training was never considered a form of exercise for longevity

or for health. I used to have to convince women that you can work out weights and not become huge. It looks like Arnold the next day type of deal. Now I'm talking to organizations, major organizations that own gyms, a huge investment company. So gyms all over the world, right? But in the US, what they're saying is that they're now devoting far less space to cardio

equipment and far more space to strength training equipment. Well, obviously, platforms now in gyms, we see bumper plates in gyms. Yeah. I'm seeing more people now talk about strength training and its benefits. I'm seeing scientists and doctors now talking about how this is like not just a great way to exercise for longevity, but it might be the ultimate way. How do you feel about, because obviously you're a power lifter, you're a strength train guy.

How do you feel about all this? I love it. I mean, I remember I first started getting a strength training. I was like 14 and I would go into public gyms and I would never see anyone lifting well. It was doing stupid shit all the time. I can't go into public gym now without seeing someone dead lifting really well, without seeing someone squatting really well,

without seeing someone doing great pushups, all the time. It's amazing, like every public gym I go to, it's like there's at least one, usually more people training very very Effectively, it's wild to me the change in 10 years And I think there are many different reasons why it's happened number one I know previously a lot of the research was done on endurance athletes It wasn't done on strength training. I didn't have any so it was just like all right

Well, it just must be endurance. That's it. And so now more research has come out through strength training, which I think has, the science was behind, we all knew it, but the science was behind and now the science is, they were like, oh, this is actually really important. I also think that, you know, people are like the, the people, especially like women wanting glutes now, has, like, all right, well, how do you get these glutes?

It's like, well, you got to fucking lift. It's a little muscle. Right, it's like, so I think, has she, like, all right, well, how do you get these glutes? It's like, well, you got to fucking lift. It's a little muscle. Right? So I think that has also, like, really pushed stuff forward. So there are many different aspects of it, culturally, scientifically, that have contributed to it, but I think it's amazing. It's incredible.

You know what, we don't touch on that one a lot. You're probably right that the butt thing was probably, I mean, let's be honest, as influential as someone, like Kim Kardashian is, like, you know, let's be honest, as influential as someone like Kim Kardashian is, like, you know, she could be responsible for all the deadlifting and squatting. Is that possible? Do you have to credit her for potentially, like,

moving the market that much? I mean, she's that, she's got so much influence. She's doing that, I mean, she doesn't. Yeah, I was gonna say. But she's got to be more of a- But she has a big butt. When the nation, if you were someone to hire a coach, you'd say, I want a butt like in Garnation,

what will we all say? We'll change from that. We got a squat deadlift, you know, that you would say to her. So she indirectly, yeah, could have actually inspired. It's quite influenced the market that much. No, it's cool to see that it's starting to kind of happen.

Now, the strength training, which is pretty cool. So I'm anticipating what's gonna follow on that is the awareness around workout programming. Cause strength training, unlike, oh look it, let's be honest, cardio also needs to be applied properly. There's still a technique to it and all that stuff. But it's not like strength training, strength training, programming can, it makes a huge difference in how you do it. Not just lift heavy things, but like how and how you order them. So I almost feel like, hopefully in the next 10 years, we're gonna start to see people start to realize like,

oh, beach body, that's not really a strength training. That's part of your way. And I think that this is more, are you getting more, are you noticing more interest in like correct programming or is that coaches? Okay, good. And people who want to be coaches. For, you know, for the people who just like, they're not passionate about,

it's sort of like, I don't know, if I needed a lawyer, I wouldn't be that worried about why this law came into place, it just be like, can you just do the fucking job for me and protect me, whatever it is? It's like the people who are really passionate about learning, yeah, like why this exercise, why this money sets and reps?

Like I think one thing we see right now, especially, I'm clearly not in the hypertrophy space very much, but like people talk about mechanical tension more, why should we be doing this, why should we be reaching this level of fatigue, why should we be training this hard, like let's talk about the total volume, this is a huge debate right now,

like in the fitness industry, like how much volume do you need? Like in talking about that, how many days a week per muscle group? So I think we're seeing a huge rise in that. Some of it being going too far. Like, all right, like really do you need to really worry about that fucking line of pull precisely exactly? Or can you just fucking train?

Just lift and like go hard and I don't care if it's eight reps or 10 reps or twelve reps, maybe you should just lift until like you can't really do many more and you're good. But I think overall program design is becoming, it's at the very least it's it's slowly increasing in popularity and understanding that hey this is really important. You can't just say like, hey do whatever workout you see on Instagram Reels and expect to see massive progress. You need to have a legitimate periodized program. You get asked a lot about companies like F-45 and Ornisteria.

Constantly. What's your thoughts on that? How do you communicate that to people that ask about it? I always say, I say, listen, something's better than nothing. And I think at least they have you moving and you're training and like it's going to be good for your health. Is this the ideal program for maximizing your potential? Of course not.

No, but like I would rather you do this than nothing at all. So and I think there are some great F45 coaches. I think there are some great Orange Theory coaches. I don't personally enjoy the system, me as an individual. My wife goes to F-45 and she loves it. And like, she also does like my workouts as well.

So she gets the best of both worlds. But like, I think, if I were looking at from a population as a whole, I would rather more people did F-45 than sit at home on the couch watching, eating nachos all day. But like in terms of actual really good program design, like no, it's not fantastic.

Yeah, I've been doing this long enough to remember when nobody squatted and deadlifted in gyms to lots of people doing it. To now I'm starting to see the backlash again. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Like the people are like deadlifting, it's not a great back exercise squats.

There's, you could get way better results if you just did this, that the other or it's not as functional as a split. That's getting back to the science stupid stuff that we do in the space, I feel like. It's time for those two exercises right there. How do you feel about, I know your power lifter, but you also coach lots of people.

Yeah. Most of them probably not power lifters. Correct. How do you feel about those two exercises in particular and how do you feel about the backlash on? I love them. I think the backlash is just people looking for content or they don't really understand it

or maybe they were just super weak and they're like, right? Right. They suck at it. They had to be no turnip for this. You know the truth about that. And I admit that on the show is like, you know, my first five, six years as a coach and trainer,

I didn't teach squatting or deadlifting because I sucked at it. That's real. I was like, I was bad at it. I was bad at it. I was weak at it. I said, I figured out how to do things without it. And so I literally taught people that it wasn't

until I got good at those and then realized the benefits that came with that. Yeah. And I think that's what made me so I think hard about men. You've got, and if you can't squat or deadlift, our goal should be to get to that point. Yeah. And I think that's what made me so I think it's hard about men. You've got, and if you can't squat or deadlift, our goal should be to get to that point. Yeah, right. 100%.

That's how much value is in that. And I get really annoyed by the coaches that try and break it down scientifically on tension that, oh, we can get that kind of tension on this hack squat or this leg press machine. So if you have a client, why should you be teaching my squat? I just don't, I don't like that message. Yeah, and it's, there's a difference between hating on a movement pattern and hating on

an effort and intensity, right? It's like hating on a deadlift is just stupid. It's just a hip hinge. Yeah. Whereas should I have like a, I don't know, a 73 year old dude like who like just wants to move better, should you go for a 1 rep max, that's stupid. But every single person I work with is going to hip hinge and deadlift in some capacity. Every single one is going to squat in some capacity.

Like I might not have everyone doing front squats because I don't know, maybe they don't have the wrist mobility for or some type of thoracic mobility for it or maybe they just don't like the pain that the bar has on their neck. I don't know, maybe they don't have the wrist mobility for it or some type of thoracic mobility for it or maybe they just don't like the pain that the bar has on their neck. I don't know, but they're gonna squat and they're going to deadlift. They're going to do these things. Actually, the one that I don't necessarily have everyone do is bench press.

Yeah, yeah. Isn't that funny? That's the least, like, and that's the one that we grew up, like that's the one you heard your most. How much do you bench do? I was literally just, because I make my own home gym.

I was like, do I even need a bench press? I've got the squat rack, I've got a bench, do I need a separate bench press? I don't even think I'm an important one. I mean, if you can overhead press, well, it's far better for you. Yeah. Health-wise, strength-wise, functionality-wise.

I mean, I'd say when I think back to my clients, I used to train, that was probably one of the most glaring things that I'd noticed in advanced age clients was think back to my clients, I used to train like that was probably one of the most glaring things that I noticed in advanced age clients was the inability to even get their hands. Yes. A bother head, like I don't need them to bench press anymore, but if I could get them to actually be able to press over the head, that'd be a huge accomplishment.

Yeah, I don't want to teach everyday people, like all right, let's lock your scaps back and just shove them down and then just like, we're just gonna bench all, like I would much rather teach how to move your scaps properly and get you overhead pressing or single arm overhead pressing something. What are the most important things you communicate

to the coaches that you work with to help them be more effective? Man, that's a great question. I mean, the number one thing is first you have to study, you have to learn, you have to read books, you have to educate yourself, Instagram TikTok doesn't count as education, like it just, it doesn't.

I've always said, and I've experienced it, is that I think the best fitness businesses are built on word of mouth. And you can't fake being a great coach if your business is built on word of mouth. That's true. I think if you're really paying attention to your clients and you're learning and you're

studying and you're giving them great programs, then your business is going to grow. If you are a shitty coach and like, you're going to churn out and it's not going to do well. So, study number one, coach people in person, like we spoke about earlier, I think coaching people in person will make you better online coach. Being an online coach will not make you better in person coach. So coaching people in person and then I like, it's, I love that advice around word of mouth because we did so many things wrong in internet marketing world building this business.

And we only survived because the information, the program, the things that we provided were so good. And what we did really well was take care of the people that did the handful of people that were coming through our community got so much such good results that they went and told so many people and we have slowly grown. Yeah, for eight years consistently. We did terrible, we never did funnels. We made the mistake of thinking that email was dead. We didn't capture emails for the first like three years. Huge mistake, don't do that.

Okay, don't do that if you're building all that business. We didn't get on YouTube. So we thought it was ridiculous. I mean, we did so many things wrong. But the one thing that we did right was really take care of our people, really give them great people, really give them great results, really help them like an ad value. And like because of that, we survived

all the things we did shitty. And I think that's such good advice for a new coach and trainer. Because you know what? There is a lot of stuff that you can do with funnels and email marketing and stuff to, you know, bait and switch. And you could probably make some quick money and be a pretty shitty coach at first. But eventually that dies. Exactly. Eventually enough people go through stuff and aren't impressed, didn't see results, get hurt, or what about that.

And then they go in detail people, and then that stuff runs out. And so maybe you make a little bit of money for a little while, but you're not going to have a business that continues to grow. And that's the only thing we did right. I really believe we did a lot of the things wrong. 100%. I love advice. One of the things that you learn very quickly in business is that the person who is most likely to buy from you

is someone who's already bought from you. And if you've fucked that person over or if you did not do a good job, then they're definitely not gonna buy from you again. And so I think just number one, being a great coach, which is like, what is a great coach? Like, it starts with knowledge. It doesn't start with charm.

Like, there are a lot of really shitty coaches who are super charming and great listeners and everyone. But if like a great coach starts with knowledge, then from there being a great listener and also being able to communicate and being able to change things on the fly Cybernetic periodization whatever it is like we could always talk about the the different Cues that you're gonna use like this does can help contribute to being a great coach

But I think that the number one thing it starts with knowledge and and making sure that the people who are with you in person Are the small group of community that you have knows that you're there for them 100% here's where some people will get challenged with that I agree with you, but you're there for them 100%. Here's where some people will get challenged with that. I agree with you, but you're gonna get trainers. This is a big challenge I hear from a lot of new coaches is that they feel like an imposter. They're like, okay, I learned these things. I did all, I've done all this reading,

I've got these certifications. I've trained a few people. Who am I to help this person? How can I charge $100 an hour? Or I feel like an imposter? Like, what do you say to coaches that come to you and say, like, I don't know, am I worthy of doing this? So why are people asking me this?

And I don't feel like I'm good enough. Yeah, I'm welcome to being human. It's like, we all feel that way in some capacity, like at all points in life, it's not a justification not to do it, right? It's like, you're welcome to feel that way. That's okay, I felt like that too, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

And then if they don't work with you, they're gonna work with someone. And do you feel like you can provide a safer program for them than someone else? If the answer is yes, then take them on. And you don't have to charge 100 now. Or you could, one thing I used to do when I first started, I was like, I'm gonna coach you for free

for the first X number of weeks. Totally. And then they'd be like, why? Like, well, I'll do when I first started was like, I'm gonna coach you for free for the first X number of weeks. Totally. And then they'd be like, why? Like, well, I'll tell you why. Number one is because I'm learning, I'm still getting my chops in. It's like, I don't feel comfortable taking your money yet. Number two is if you like the results,

then after four, eight, 12 weeks, then you can start paying me. But first we're gonna do it for free. And then it would be great. And then they got rid of great results. And then I felt more in power. It's like, okay, cool. I helped this person get results.

Now I feel more comfortable charging, and I would start with like $20 for 12 weeks. And it's like, okay, now I'll bump into $40 for 12 weeks. I'm like, that's how I started, and I was a teenager. It's like, I didn't start by taking money at first. Have you heard of multiple clients, and it's all these practices of like gaining knowledge and experience, and you know, that's what you build off of, and and that's you have to build up that confidence to be a good

Cousin from what I understand Have you have you heard Brett Contreras' story? Do you know how he built his business? I did not find this when we've met him multiple times He was on the show again for a second time and Sal asked him a question this time that we had never asked him I did not know do you know know how he, like, no. Do you know that he doesn't charge anybody for his training? I did not know that. That's awesome. Yes.

Still to this day. He does not charge people for all the people you see on Instagram. He'd be coaching and training with that. I'm not sure he'd get something out of it too, but. Yeah. That's awesome. I know. I love that too.

So one of that, that much talent, that much education intelligence, like had the same kind of philosophy is just like, I'm just, and the way he positioned it on the podcast was funny because he's like, you know, if I do that, then, you know, if I'm five minutes late, then I feel like, you know what I'm saying? If I don't, if I don't, then I love that. Yeah, his attitude was like, I didn't want that response to the attention of these people.

I was passionate about doing that. And so, and then,. And then everybody's so excited because I'm not charging a minute, and he goes, and then I can do in groups, and they can all learn from me. That's how he grew his business was. That's so smart. Help, and then eventually, obviously attracted

some of these big name bikini girls and huge followings, and then. But there is all this big for himself. Yeah, I think that's so good. How do you communicate to people who, because this is gonna happen, who come to you and say, carnivore really works well for me.

I feel so good. I don't have any more of these issues. Or, yeah, but, you know, I go vegan and I feel phenomenal. Or, you know, I do this other thing. And it just, I think it's really working for me. Like, how do you communicate to those people? I, it's funny. Like, when I was younger, I would go off on a tangent.

Now I'm like, good. That's awesome. And I basically say that. And like, how's your, like, if we wanna go in deeper, like, well, what do you think? If they start to ask me, what do I think about it? And I'll be like, well, here's the thing, like, are you getting your blood work done?

Are you checking these levels? Are you making sure you're okay, health-wise? Like, are you going to the doctor? If that's all good, like, I'm not gonna tell them not to do it. Because the easiest way to make them wanna do it more is for me to say, like, you you going to the doctor? If that's all good, like, I'm not gonna tell them not to do it. Because the easiest way to make them want to do it more is for me to say like, you shouldn't do that. It's like, that's a bad idea.

Then they're gonna be like, fuck you. Like, I'll do what I want. But I feel great. Yeah, but exactly. So it's like, if you feel great, go for it. And then I like, I could have conversations like, do you like, is this something you can continue for the rest of your life?

And they're like, oh, no, no way. I can only do it. I'm really struggling. I'm like, okay, well that goes against everything you just fucking said. So let's talk about how we can maybe make this more sustainable. But if someone just comes to me and is like, oh man, I'm really loving this. I'm like, I'm so happy for you. Good for you.

So with someone maybe hearing right now when we're talking, is it like, okay, so what you guys are saying is, I got to figure it out for myself. What the hell? Like, okay, that's, I gotta figure it out for myself. What the hell? Like, okay, that's, I'm even more confused. Are there general guidelines and things that you can communicate around nutrition? Yeah.

Okay, so what would those be? I mean, number one, I mean, this is gonna be the most, like, it's so funny now that like, everyone knows about to say protein. Like, protein is super important, but like, 10 years ago, that was not like no. So like protein is obviously like, I think number one, that's it.

Why is that? Oh man. Yeah, because we have a lot of data to support this now. So yeah, I mean, we could talk about number one in terms of, if we look at overall health issues, like we're fat on the never, and which contributes to like the most amount of health issues, like protein is the number one that's going to keep you the most full,

it's gonna help you with your body composition, it's gonna be able to help you build muscles. There's no question protein is the most impactful from that has the highest thermic effect. So protein is just from a body composition perspective alone is gonna be the most important. From there, after protein, I would then go to fiber. And I often put those side by side, I think protein and fiber. When I I would, I often put those like side by side,

I think protein and fiber, like, and when I'm talking to people who, they don't wanna track calories, they don't wanna track macros over on, like, let's just, protein fiber. I think that that is, for me, what I would say is the most important. Both, they both keep you full.

Generally, for focusing on protein and fiber, it's hard to eat like shit. Like, it's really difficult to eat like an asshole if you're focusing on protein and fiber, it's hard to eat like shit. Like it's really difficult to eat like an asshole if you're focusing on protein and fiber. It's like, okay, so I'll have like fish and vegetables or like, I don't know like chicken, then also I have an apple. It's like eggs and oatmeal. It's like, these are all amazing meals.

Unless you're like getting like the fiber one bars and like that's, and then like, I don't know bars and then eating shit that way, but if you're it's protein fiber whole minimally processed foods, if you're doing that, you really can't go wrong. I'm going to add to this, you're so correct, and I'm going to add to this, for someone listening, here's why, the number one enemy to the average person when it comes to obesity. Or should I say the number one thing they should search for satiety, period and of story. If you feel a sense of satiety, it's not perfect because people eat for lots of different reasons, but you're way more likely

to not overeat. You're way less likely to impulsively eat. It just makes things a lot easier. That's for anybody listening right now. If you're hungry, you have lots of cravings. Good luck trying to live with that all the time and eat healthy or make good choices. So those two things you named are the most satiety producing foods or components in food. And the second part, which I love that you said, is it's really hard to eat lots of heavily processed garbage and also eat a lot of protein and a lot of fiber. Even the heavily processed stuff that has a lot of protein and fiber, it doesn't taste as good. As the stuff that does. And it doesn't fill you up as much. That's right. So what you just said is so on the money with nutrition. I wish people would just

kind of understand. One of my favorite things that you do, talking about this subject is actually, you do a really good job, though, of going back and forth on the nuances of that, which is something that we are always having. Because I think all of us in this room don't do this, where we say, you know, avoid processed foods as much as possible, go for whole foods, but I'm not demonizing processed foods at the same time.

I'm not saying you that process foods don't make it in my diet. I'm talking to the masses of like, listen, if you're gonna indulge in those things, be aware of the way it's going to make you feel and how it makes me want you to eat more. If you stick to whole foods, you might have an easier time

staying to your core balance. But at the same time, I can show you that I can eat stuff from a wrapper and eat process foods and still stay fit. So it's not like it's the devil and it's going to make you technically fat. It makes it harder. And makes it more difficult. So reckon I think what we did about in the in the fitness space is like it's like you're either or. It's like you either got to be the protein bar shake all processed food type of person, I if I am or you have to be this hippie, crunchy,

whole foods, though you can't eat any of those, those are all cancerous foods. It's like, listen, there's a balance here, there's nuance here, and it's not that those foods are necessarily quote unquote bad foods, it's that, oh, if you eat a lot of processed foods, it's very difficult to stay within your core balance. If you focus on whole foods, it's much easier,

but it doesn't mean you're bad. If you have a busy day and you have to have beef jerky or protein bar or something on the go. So I think you do a really good job of communicating. Do you get a lot of people that, because you talk, I know you do a kick a while back, where you're eating bad food and you showed that you lose weight.

Today is day 29, I'm spiking my blood sugar every day. I still lose weight and people are losing their fucking shit. But to go off of what you just said, I think this is really important. You said it earlier, you noticed that my content has dropped a little bit in terms of frequency because I have a kid, right? It's like, before my business got to where it was, I had to be making a lot of content. And now I've earned the right and the ability, I should say,

not the right, the ability to produce less and still be okay. I think that this is also with nutrition. With nutrition, it's, you need to have a flexible diet. I think it's important. But someone who is already relatively lean and worked years to build muscle and maintain a good body composition will be able to have more flexibility without negatively impacting their health, whereas someone who is maybe a higher body fat percentage hasn't built as much muscle, doesn't have as good conditioning, isn't as healthy, maybe they need to be a

little bit more rigid for a little bit. It doesn't mean they can't enjoy any of these foods ever, but it means like you might be better at being like 90, 90, 2.5% consistent as opposed to trying to be 80% consistent right now or 70% might be better, I'm not saying for everyone, but I think in order to be like to earn the ability to be more flexible and still make progress, you might have to get to a certain level first and that's something to be aware of. You know, they haven't formed and strengthened those behaviors. Yes, exactly.

You have to learn how to actually like apply that consistently and be able to duplicate that. Yeah. Here's an uncomfortable truth, and this is definitely oversimplifying things so everybody relax, but it's a truth that if you consume less than you burn, all the negative effects associated with sugar and certain fats and all these other things, you negate a lot of it, it's not most of it, right? So in other words, you can even McDonald's every day,

and of course, make sure you don't have nutrient efficiency and stuff like that. If you're not overeating, you're going to be almost fine. Yeah, I want to say fine, but almost fine. Now, with that, the reason why it's an oversimplification is because eating just McDonald's or whatever, it's going to give you more cravings. Correct. You're going to have ups and downs with your mood or behaviors, which then lead to the fact that

it's going to be much more challenging. But I think people need to understand that that first part, now what you said, I want to get to, which is the muscle part, what gives you more of that flexibility? Muscle. You spike your blood sugar. Guess where that blood sugar gets to go. Muscle. Right in the muscle.

There's another myth, which is that obese people carry more muscle, but in fact they suffer from higher rates of sarcopenia. Yeah, okay muscle low muscle and muscle loss than the average person. So insulin spikes to somebody with a little bit of muscle. Not a good idea. You got big quads and strong back and all that stuff like that sugar is is going somewhere, it's going to be stored. Especially if they're overeating and they're consistent, that's the main issue. That's right. So you want that flexibility, let's get your metabolism to boost a little bit and what does that? You got to build that muscle. Yeah. Share what you're doing right now for the audience that isn't following or doesn't know what you're doing right now. And I love when you do these kicks for like the 30 day thing, just to prove a point to educate basically what you're doing.

So what exactly is the protocol for what you're doing right now and what made you do it? So the thing that made me do it is I've heard doctors say like you really need to watch the carrots because they're high in sugar. Oh my god. You fucking idiot. Like watch the carrots or watch the watermelon

because the high glycemic index. Oh really really we're talking about the glycemic index Like and why would they point to carrots or water? Right, it's like it's not the pizza or the french fries or the ice cream Yeah, it's like for fuck sake Yeah, and I get these all the time in my DMs and and clients and members like my doctor said this or my friends said this I'm like, I don't care what Carol said. You're welcome to have fucking modern hours fine. So basically right now, a huge viral trend is everyone wearing these continuous glucose monitors,

which I think they can be good for diabetics who need them. And they're an interesting form of data. But people are like, one of the most viral things right now in social media is, look, I ate this. And look at my blood sugar. I'm like, wow, that's incredible. That at my blood sugar. And look at my blood sugar. I'm like, wow. That's incredible.

That's a normal, healthier response to eating that food. And so I was like, fuck it. So I have a continuous glucose monitor on right now. I've had one on for a little over a month. And I was like, I'm going to deliberately spike my blood sugar once a day. And whether it's a donut or yesterday at the airport, I had pink berry with gummy bears.

And I made sure to get gummy bears and raspberry so I get the fructose and the sucrose. And- Would you get criticism for that? Oh, but you didn't have the fructose. Yeah, exactly. The gummy bears are okay with this. People find anything to criticize.

So I've done everything. But I've also done things that have been really interesting, like, okay, one day I'll have oatmeal, which oatmeal spikes it like fucking crazy. So there's a lot of people hating on oatmeal recently. I love oatmeal. Then I did oatmeal and I also did it with the next day to do oatmeal and protein, just to see the difference,

because it's interesting to see these differences. But basically, the glucose spikes or bad crowd has lost their fucking mind. Because I'm down, as of this morning, 10.4 pounds in 29 days, which is very aggressive deficit, but I was like, I'm just doing this to make a point because if I only, and that's in quotes, if I only lost like three pounds, they'd be like,

it's a water fluctuation, like, no, I'm not a farmer. So yeah, so I, every single day, spike my blood sugar, deliberately, usually with something not considered healthy, but watermelon and oatmeal spike it more than anything. Watermelon oatmeal are the things that spike it more than absolutely anything, which is just funny, because for me, I'll eat pounds of watermelon a day

on a cut because it's so filling, it's delicious. I love watermelon. And so, yeah, people are freaking out, but it's just like, again, it's keeping control of my calories. Those spikes matter when they're supposed to matter. Like you said, diabetic, prediabetic. Correct.

They also matter if you can connect them to changes in behavior. We work with a company that uses CGMs, but they work with a coach. So you wear it, the coach contacts you. And then they say, okay, we notice these spikes and whatever at this time, did you get an energy drop, did you feel irritable? If the answer is yes, your cravings kick up. Yeah, okay, now I'm aware, I'll craft when I eat that oatmeal

or whatever, it does make me have cravings later. But if you don't connect to anything, it's completely worthless. And that's been actually really cool for me to look at is in terms of, okay, cool. Like, it's funny. I've seen forever since I was a teenager, like blood sugar spikes are bad because then you're going to have a crash and you're going to be hungry. And I've always sort of just taken it at face value, but it's been cool for me to look

at different foods. So watermelon and oatmeal, for example, spike my blood sugar like crazy. I also have huge drops. I become hypoglycemic soon after oatmeal, like within a couple of hours, but I'm full for a long time with oatmeal, whereas a donut didn't spike my blood sugar nearly as high, and it didn't go hypoglycemic, but I was starving, which just goes to show like, all right, well, what's more nutrient dense, what has more fiber is like, and so it is cool to say like, well, which foods affect you more, not only based on blood sugar, but

on, and I'm so glad. I actually think this on blood sugar, but on every other diet. I'm so glad. I actually think that, you know, we're talking about this. I think this is one of the things that someone DM me about where, because they've obviously heard us talk about nutrients before. And I think they shared a clip of someone that's that's interesting. And I think, yeah, and I think it was this like,

yeah, no, what he's saying is absolutely correct. Like it's not conflicting with what we, what we communicate like it's, you have to connect it to how you feel and you can feel very different from one thing to the next. There's also an individual variance, which is very important. Huge, huge.

Here's what's weird that people just now are starting to realize, you could have, and they might call it an intolerance, or let's say, IgG antibodies, whatever, to a particular food that might have zero sugar in carbs. It could be an avocado or macadamia nuts, but for whatever reason, I don't know, the antibodies, whatever, to a particular food that might have zero sugar in carbs. It could be an avocado or macadamia nuts, but for whatever reason, I don't know, maybe you had

leaky gut or whatever, you've now developed a low level of immune reaction to it. What does that do? Your liver is gonna dump out sugar. Yes. So why are macadamia nuts making my blood sugar spike? Yes. You would never know that had you not worn this

and worked with a coach. Yeah. That's the important. So, could you potentially want to work with CGMs with clients or are you, you're so in tune with your clients though I doubt you would even need that kind of data. I'm sort of conflicted. Mainly, there are a number of reasons I'm conflicted.

I think the data, I love data. I enjoy it. I think it's fun. I also know that there are a lot of people who are like, they see, there's so much information, they're gonna get even more worried, oh my God, like it says I'm a hypocrite, I see a mixture, I call the ER, like,

should the fuck out, like, relax, it's fine. But the other thing, and this is something, this has been, every time I do a challenge, there's something I learned that I didn't expect, I would learn. Yeah, that's cool. And in this one, I've spoken to a lot of diabetics and specifically parents of type one diabetics.

And this is what's been a huge eye opener for me is, it's hard enough to be a diabetic, especially a type one diabetic. I couldn't imagine how difficult it is to be a parent of like an infant or a young child who's a type one diabetic and you essentially have to function as their pancreas. You have to constantly track their blood sugar levels, you have to constantly track their insulin levels,

you have to make sure, like when they're out of friends house, like are they getting what they need? Like it's, and the CGMs, at least here in the US, I know it's different whether it's in Canada or Australia, UK, because things are subsidized, but I didn't realize like there's actually an often a shortage of them, and people are struggling to afford them,

and people to get them for people actually need them. So the conflict I have, one of the conflicts I have is, I'm seeing a lot of people using them who don't need them, which is essentially putting the demand for them up much higher, which is then rising the price for them, which is making it very difficult for people who need them to get them. Yeah, so I wanna, let me touch on that.

That, yes, but here's what that'll lead to if the demand remains high, innovation and lower cost. Yes, correct. So, it's a shitty situation. This is how all markets work. Yes. You'll see demand rise temporary shortages and price because demand goes up. We have only so much supply price things go up

But we're already seeing innovation with CGMs and we're already starting to see More companies try to provide because they're like oh the demand's there right exactly So with this may lead to which is probably what's gonna happen is over the counter CGMs that are inexpensive Because there's also regulation that make it a pain in the ass. Dude, yeah. Because it's considered, there's a tight, for people that know, CGM has literally it's the size of a hair and it's super, super small and it goes inside your arm. I don't even feel it when I put it in.

No, it's not a needle. It's not a needle, it's literally like a hair, like a mosquito, okay. And because of that, the regulation says it has to go through this process of whatever. So what I think is going to happen, if the demand remains high, is, you know, hold on, everybody. We're about to have really, really, really innovative, cheap CGMs. Maybe Apple Watches will offer it or who knows. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But if we pull the demand back because of guilt or whatever. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, then it could see I had about that It's a really good point. Yeah that aligns with what I believe But I hadn't taken it that far and gotten that logical step Yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah, you know the part that's most important about it is the part that you like because we all like the Data and so I thought is that you are connecting how you know Regardless of where the blood sugar goes up or down, is how you feel and how that changes your cravings

and behaviors, which is the most important piece. I think that's the biggest takeaway from any, and I mean, I feel the same way about testing body fat, if it's the same way about entering your food into a macro counter, all those things. It's like, none of that data really matters unless what you see changes your behaviors around them. If it doesn't change your behaviors or in negatively impacts your behaviors, then

it's all like, I remember when Doug first started wearing the aura ring and they aura sent us all free rings and so we're all, we're all, I'm wearing mine. I like it. He's like, I noticed I got shitier sleep. Yeah. Because I was so competitive with my school, I'm a better schooler, that it stressed me out before I went to bed. So I got worse because I do better sleep than this. It's like, that's a perfect example of like how this could be a tool for somebody and help educate and form and help you make better decisions.

And then another person, it could be totally negative. You have to, as a consumer, be able to decide that for yourself. What kind of person am I? a consumer, be able to decide that for yourself. It's like, what kind of person am I? Am I going to be able to take this information, not get freaked out because it goes up or down or with that, but go like, oh, sort of connect the dots of, oh, when I have these foods, I do notice this happens.

I do notice that these things or it keeps me fuller longer. You brought up, too. You brought up body fat testing in macros. There were clients I trained where body fat testing in macros sent there were clients I trained where body fat testing in macros sent them in the wrong direction. Yeah.

Literally would make it stressful for them, anxious or contribute to like dysfunctional eating. Right. And we never tested body fat. We would never count a macro. And I just had to find different ways around it. I want to ask you this as a father because I know you're thinking about,

you're not only one, but you're a very self-aware man. You're obviously very involved with your family. You're probably thinking at some point, education. How's my kid gonna learn things or whatever. Now, as a coach and trainer, you're a teacher. And you've learned that you got to coach people and train people differently.

Right. And there's an effective way to do it, and there's an ineffective way to do it. And if your client is not doing great, you probably ask yourself, what am I doing wrong? Not what are they doing? Why is it there fault, brother?

Okay, what am I doing right? Thinking about that, looking forward with your kid, how do you feel about education with your kid? How do you feel about the whole process and looking at that? And how am I gonna get my daughter? What kind of education am I gonna put her in? How is she gonna learn? And is the system really the best way that we currently use or their different ways like have you had these

Conversations through why in terms like the school system school and any edge. Yeah. Yeah, so my entire mom's side of the family are educators Superintendents principles professors my cousins professor of Native American history at GW Everyone's professor except my mom should have a lawyer. So like everyone's in that world and I was terrible in that world. Like we were talking before we started recording. I was in special education. I was the black sheep of the family. I was just terrible in school.

The irony, you probably make the most money in your family. Just gotta point that out. I think that's kind of cool, right? That's kind of cool. And my mom's still no matter what to this day, she'll be like, you know, it's not too late to go back to school. She does not say that. She does not say that.

She does not say that. You don't never know. You really don't. Maybe I'll buy a school, mom. What do I say? What if you put that all towards becoming a doctor? You know, I don't say it's school for the baby. She was literally just a town the other week. So you could always go back. But, um. Oh, it's school. For the AED. Yeah, she was literally just a town the other week.

So you could always go back. But. Oh, that's funny. Mom, he's rich and he's successful. He's pretty good at that so funny. Himalayan, mama. I obviously have a strong bias, but I do not like the way that the current education system is set up.

And at least from what I've seen, especially, I don't like it. So we were talking about homeschooling, it is something that we're definitely considering. I just, I need to learn more about it. The thing for me is, I know everyone learns differently and what wasn't good for me might be good for someone else. My thing, especially with my daughter

and God willing future kids is I just want them to know that what grades they get and how they perform in school especially with my daughter and God willing future kids is I just want them to know that What grades they get and how they perform in school and my opinion means literally Nothing in regard to what their future success will be like it means absolutely nothing I care more about the effort that they're putting into things I care more about how kind they are are they a good listener can they speak are they well-rounded like I care more about how kind they are, are they a good listener, can they speak, are they well-rounded? Like, I care more about that than I do about their grades than I do about fucking, do you know what a rhombus is?

Like, I don't know what a fucking rhombus is. Like, I don't care. So, there's a lot for me to consider, and I'm not sure to be, I just don't have the answer yet, but there are many different things we're trying to figure out and discuss, and we have a few years, but I don't know what route we're going to go, but it is something that I'm not going to make a light decision with.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. You're actually, I didn't learn this so much later, unfortunately, after I was a dad and everything. This occurred to me later on. It's like, I know what this should look like, because this is how I train people. It's really that different. I'm training people that are my students and I'm really trying to help them

and everybody's different. I have to appreciate that. And maybe challenging for one person is easy for someone else. And then I gotta figure out how to make that challenging thing not so challenging. They just don't do that in the school system, unfortunately. Don't look at it that way. So.

Well, you have to understand the origin of it, right? I brought this up on the show the other day. I remember first learning about, this was the Rockefellers and they all came to governments and how do we make more workers? Yeah, how do we make more workers? We created the current public system with that intent. It's so true.

So to think to not, if you don't understand that and to think that that is the best way, if you don't understand that, and to think that, like, that is the bet. Okay, yeah, that is the best way. If we wanted a bunch of factory workers, if that was the desired outcome, if we were a bunch of people that owed massive companies and we want all these people to work for us, then this is how we should do this school system.

But, and if that's what I guess you want for your kid, you want your kid to go work for some factory. Yeah, then okay, then maybe it is for you. Otherwise, it's definitely not the most ideal way for us to educate whatsoever. Yeah. What do you, because obviously when you communicate, you do communicate things like weight loss

and strength and looking better, but you also communicate a lot about health. Health, longevity, enjoyment, you know, it's like, you wanna live, not just be alive, I've heard you talk about that. When you look at health, it's like, you know, you want to live, not just be alive. I've heard you talk about that. When you look at health, you obviously know nutrition, you know, exercise. I'm sure sleep was something you started to learn a little later. Yeah.

Think all of us started to do that out a little later. Like why sleep matters? Yeah. Why does that matter? Why is it important? That wasn't something I thought about early on at all. Are you, have you looked at or the data behind things that give us purpose, like spirituality, religion,

those kind of practices? Yes, those actually, so I started in college with exercise science and I dropped out from that degree, within the first two and a half months, and I moved to health and behavior science, like behavior psychology. That, for me, was, I think, was a great change in terms of communication with clients, but also for me learning about like, what brings people happiness? Like what is joy? What makes them enjoy life? What makes them feel good in life? So yeah, in terms of in terms of actually looking at not just people who are successful in terms of money, but people who are happy,

that to me is very intriguing. And so I love looking at that research. So how do you communicate that coming, I know you have a spiritual background. I know you probably talk to a lot of people that aren't. How do you communicate the importance of that to a bunch of people who are, you know, that don't have faith or don't believe and don't have a religion or anything like that?

How do you communicate that to the masses? Yes, so that's a great question. It's, I always go back to number one. I'm not going to tell someone what they need to believe because as soon as you tell them what they need to, they're going to be like, fuck you. Right? So, so for me, it's been less about like, hey, you need to do this and people will often ask me like, well, you seem very happy.

You seem very fulfilled and I'll talk about what's fulfilled me and I'll talk about my relationship with God. And usually when we talk about God, they'll ask, like, well, so you believe in God, and I'll be like, well, yeah, of course I believe in God. And I'll be like, what do you think God is? And we'll go down these philosophical type discussions. And oftentimes their view of what God is, it's something that maybe they were taught when they were in first grade.

And it's just like they've never expanded their view of what God is or what spirituality is. So we'll have these conversations and I think through that and through watching, then they can learn how to incorporate more into life and be more open-minded to it and understand that like, I don't think it's a coincidence that generally speaking people who believe in God and who have faith and have more spirituality are happier, healthier and live longer. Like, you can't really argue with that based on the research. So I think just having these conversations with them and then just hanging out and being

part of my community, whether or not they are, I'm Jewish. I don't need you to convert to Judaism. But like, for example, I've done Bible study classes with friends of mine who are Christian, literally like my buddy Sean and my buddy Esteban, you know, Sean Lowe from the Bachelor. So he's a great friend of mine. We're reading more than a carpenter right now, which is like, it's obviously about Jesus.

Like, I'm not Christian, but like, I like to learn about this stuff and I like to have conversation with people about this stuff because I think learning about other religions and other people's faith will improve your own. And I'll give you more insight into how to view God and how to have your, I think for me, the number one thing that's helped me is understanding that God wants a relationship with me. Like God wants me to talk with him. God wants a relationship with me and through that and through

communicating this with people, I think they, okay, like I can have these conversations. I can, I can try and develop a relationship with people, I think they, okay, I can have these conversations, I can try and develop a relationship with God and whatever capacity that means to them, but through, I think it's easier to not have a relationship with God than it is to have a relationship with God. It's very difficult to continuously strive to have a relationship with God.

And I think now people are starting to really, okay, I'm craving this relationship, I'm crazy, this effort to put into it. And so I'll try and talk about it from that perspective. And sometimes it works well, sometimes people are like, you're out of your fucking mind. It's like, it's okay, like the good news is, like I don't need you to do it.

Like I'm just explaining why I do it and how it has contributed to my life. Do you know, I found interesting is that, I've said this before that the pursuit of health, let's say through fitness, that if you pursue it long enough, you start to ask these questions because health encompasses all these things and you said it earlier, the data totally shows this. Do you think health and fitness or fitness in particular is just a great personal growth

vehicle? If you just pursue it long enough? Oh, yeah. I mean, just like health and fitness, of course. Yeah. I think it'd be, if you actually truly pursue it, I don't think you could not get better as a result of it, right? And there's an argument to me that like,

if you're actively pursuing anything, like you're going to get better in some capacity, like if you're truly, not like half-assing and not like saying you are, but like, like, if you're truly pursuing something, then I think you're going to be getting better in some capacity. And I think health and fitness is one of those amazing things where when you actively pursue it, it's not just you getting better, it's everyone around you getting better as a result of it.

People are watching you, people are seeing you, you're able to provide more, you're able to do more. It's so much more than just yourself with health and fitness when you actively pursue it. I think the same thing with religion, I think the same thing with building a business. Like if I'm actively pursuing my business, I'm definitively helping more people.

I'm definitively impacting more people and that process of going through it and dealing with the road bumps, dealing with the blocks, dealing with all the obstacles along the way. Like you can't not get better from that. I also think it inevitably will lead to this spiritual question. Yeah.

Because once you check all the other boxes, like, oh, okay, I got the sleep thing down, oh, I got the water, the nutrition, the strength training. And then eventually it leads you to like, there's something else there that I could do to improve my life. And because of all the research that supports somebody that has some sort of religious or faith or belief and how much healthier they are because of that, whether that be through community or whatever it is, I think it eventually

at least leads you to start asking those questions. And then those people that I have found that are in denial of that say, oh no, I'm super healthy and I'm, and I'm atheist in this this not like they have found some other way to kind of try and fill that void of spirituality through that whether that be through, you know, claiming it's the universe and spiritual and crystals and all this other stuff. It's like sooner or later you find something to try and fill that void because it's in everybody I feel like. Well, don't you think it's somewhat back to your original point of of us trying to make everything so much more convenient. And like our whole society is moving in that direction of everything needs to be ease of access

and we need to sort of relinquish ourselves from hard things. When in fact the hard things are usually where you find the most purpose. So then I could see where you spirituality, it's hard. You know, having a relationship with somebody for a long time just one person that's really hard you know and being a good example continuously and doing the right thing that's hard and so I don't know for me like it just seems like a lot of this it's awkward for people to talk about and then and where how does this relate to fitness how does this relate to overall health people to talk about and how does this relate to fitness, how does this relate to overall health, but don't you see that's,

that's all encompasses like who you are as a human being. Yeah, yeah, I do, I completely agree. Yeah, I feel, well, I mean, here's a deal. Like you could, you could do the fitness and diet and sleep perfectly. Shit's gonna happen. Yeah. What's gonna get you through it?

Yeah. You gotta have some kind of purpose and drive to get through the shit, because it's gonna happen. Yeah. What's gonna get you through it? Yeah. You gotta have some kind of purpose and drive to get through the shit, because it's gonna happen. Now being fit, healthy, and strong means you're more resilient. And you'll go through less avoidable shit but shit's gonna happen, you know, no matter what.

There's something where, not to belabor the point, if you wanna skip this topic, I'm gonna, like, you're, but, we all go through like ups and downs, all of us, right? We all go through shit. I think gonna like you know, but we all go through like ups and downs all of us right we all go through shit. I think a lot of people when they're in a really good point in their life they're like I'm the best like yeah like I'm I got it. But then when shit hits the fan and they're like well what happened I'm

not the best anymore it's like well the the person at the top of their totem pole was them and now it's, well, the person at the top of their totem pole was them. And now it's like, well, now you're at the bottom of the toe, who do you look up to now? And it's like, I think to have God as like the constant, no matter what, it's like, no matter what you're going through, good times, bad times, it's like, you're not above. You're like, you are not the top of the totem pole at all.

And so for me, it's like, I think it's easy, I think, for people in bad times to go to God. It's harder and good times to go to God. And I guess arguably the most important time because it always keeps you in check. Yeah. Well, you, you, you were born and raised in it. Has it evolved and changed for you? Like your beliefs, your faith, like, yeah, like has it, has it changed like from what childhood and like, did you go through, because I grew up in a tooth, I was born, and then I, in it, and then I went through a phase

in my teenage years where I was like, totally like not following anything, didn't care. And then I came back around later on in life and just had a different outlook on my faith. Have you gone through a similar journey? Have you been consistent with the, like what your parents taught you? This is how I believe, like, how's that journey been for you?

Yeah, so I was born and raised Jewish. My mom was brought up in a very conservatively Jewish house. My father was not at all, and he hated religion. Oh, interesting. So it was a huge debate in my house. Anytime it was the Jewish holidays, they would always get in fights. My dad would leave. Like it was always like a time of like, it was very tumultuous in the house during those Jewish holidays. I also went to I went to radio school and I also went to Hebrew school and I loved it.

Like I loved going to Hebrew school. I there's never been a point where I doubted God. There's just my relationship has evolved throughout the years. And I ended up, I went to Israel after high school, I took a year off, I lived in Israel for a year, and then I came back and I went to school, then I went back to Israel for several years, and Israel for me is where it's just like, things just made so much more sense, where it's just like, this is,

there's no question in my mind. And so, I sort of look at it similar to fitness, which is funny because we're going back to it, where it's like, I've always been very involved in fitness. I loved health and fitness. I love strength training. I love working out whether it was wrestling, whether it was powerlifting, whether it's jujitsu,

whether it's whatever it is. Like, the methodologies and the actual things would change, but I would always fitness oriented. My relationship with fitness has changed throughout the years. Same thing with my religion and with God, where it's like, sometimes I was more into it. Sometimes I was always fitness oriented. My relationship with fitness has changed throughout the years. Same thing with my religion and with God, where it's like sometimes I was more into it, sometimes I was less into it, sometimes I was in this aspect,

sometimes I was in that aspect. But like, I think now as I've gotten older and I have a family, I've become far more in touch with how I really want to have a constant relationship with God. And when I was younger, it was like, okay, there are times to pray, there are times to talk to God. And now it's like, you could do it all day, you could do it anytime you want. You don't have to be in a house to pray, you can talk with God anytime you want. And you can have these conversations.

And that, for me, I think, is one of the biggest changes in probably the last years that my daughter was born is, I try and have these conversations. And that for me, I think is one of the biggest changes in probably the last years that my daughter was born is I try and have these conversations all throughout the day. You know what's interesting is this is what I like about fitness so much, is it's such a simple, basic microcosm of a lot of different things. To be successful with fitness, you need to have practices, you need to develop some kind of disciplines.

We would call that in religious practices tradition. One thing that Jewish people do very well is they have, there's a lot of culture and tradition around what they do. So, and that's a good thing because you're there, you're practicing, you're connecting it to lots of other people. And like fitness, eventually you can get to the point, like I can get to the point

and I've been doing this for so long, I don't necessarily need a schedule. I don't necessarily need a planned workout, but it tends to look that way because I've done it for so long and I can see the value. I think that's true with any practice. With any practice, it's like, well, I'm starting this practice, oh, I can do this whenever I want, and well, you probably need to schedule it. Yes. Make a structure, make a discipline, because that's really the only way you can get better at something is by doing that. I think your culture does that very well, and I would say it's probably why it's, you

can see the kids of families tend to continue it, because you grew up following these practices. I got something that you'll like, because I know you like Jordan Peterson. He came here to San Jose, we went and saw him live. And my favorite part of it, even though I enjoy listening to him go on his lectures, my favorite part was the very end where people got to ask, like they have this thing where you text and he just pick a live question and then answer it.

And one of the first questions was, you know, if he could go back and do something different with the way he raised his kids, what would he do different? You know what his answer was? No. Take my kids to church every Sunday. And then he went on to say that, you know,

the part that he says, he's really, I think we did a really good job with our kids. He goes, but I think it's very arrogant of us sometimes to think like, you know, just because we don't believe in a certain religion or a believe in God, that we are just going to completely ignore the values of teaching them a moral foundation like that. And he's like, so if you're going to be that confident about not taking your kids to that, what are you doing on Sunday at 10 o'clock in

the morning for your kids every week, every single week, as far as teaching them those values that they are going to get by going to a Sunday or Saturday service like that. And it really opened my eyes, I'm thinking, because I kind of, as I've gotten on my journey, moved away from the church setting or whatever like that, just because I'm not a big fan of a lot of the hypocrisy

that happens in those type of communities, but now recognize too, like, well, I better step up then. And organize something from my kid to be learning every single week. Whether you like it or not, they're gonna be religious. Well, either the environment or this cause, or the almost political party, they're gonna become religious.

Well, that's a, I mean, what I took from that was, they're, and you don't have to say religiously, somebody is going to indoctrinate them in their beliefs, right? So would I rather my public school system, or even private school system, to be the ones that teach them those more values? Or would I rather it be a church that I believe in the values faith in or myself?

And it's like, so if I'm going to be arrogant enough to say I'm going to ignore and not do that, then I best step the fuck up and be doing it every single week or else somebody else is going to. You know, it's so funny. People, they love to hate on religion and they'll often say, oh, you're all hypocrites. It's like, are you perfect? Have you never been hypocritical at any point in time?

I think people are so quick to be like, well, I don't do that because you're all liars. Like, listen, they're good people and bad people in every walk of life. They're also human. They're all humans, right? And I feel like just because some people in that group have made mistakes or some people,

like, and that's putting it lightly, to be like, some people in that group have made mistakes or some people like, and that's putting it lightly, do like some people have made it like terrible, like awful, like some the worst thing you could ever imagine. But it doesn't mean there's nothing you can take from other people in that group, and that doesn't mean it's not going to make you better as a whole. And I just think that one of my favorite quotes is we often judge our, and I didn't make this quote up, but we judge our selves by our intent and other people by their actions. And it's that has been very helpful for me in terms of casting judgment in terms of writing people off very quickly. It's like it's like have I never lied before? Have I like have I never like like we've all done stuff. So it's like, all right, how about we just like take a minute and focus on

Focus let's focus on the things that will make us individually better and as a community better and like for me I haven't found many places like on it for Jews on Saturday So you go like better than go to synagogue and let's listen to something really good. Let's take a full circle This is what people do to trainers and coaches. Oh, you preach about, I saw you eating that cheese bird. Yeah. Or, oh, you're missing your workouts. What are you talking about, right? And I'll tap it.

I'm not going to listen to you. It's the same thing. It's the same damn thing. It's like, well, that doesn't take away from what we're talking about and that there's accuracy here. And listen, I'm in fitness. Does that mean I don't struggle with? Yeah.

Not wanting to work out in the morning, or wanting to be lazy, or eating whatever. Of course, I struggle with that. Everybody does. Not wanting to work out in the morning, or wanting to be lazy, or eating whatever. Of course, I struggle with that. Everybody does. Do you know who said that quote? I love that. I don't know who said that. I should look at it.

I love that because oftentimes I get asked about people that I'll either listen to or be friend and many times people will look at those people and say things like they did this or they do that. And like, how could you like that person? It's like, but the way I can get through that is I choose to believe, believe that this person has good intentions. Yeah.

Even if they have this past, they did this, they did that. It's like, I choose not to focus on that. Yeah. I prefer to focus on the part that I want to believe as a good character, which allows me then to build relationships with. Stuffings with. Yes. Stuffing Covey said that. Oh. I prefer to focus on the part that I want to believe is a good character, which allows me then to build relationships. Yes. Yes. Stephen Covey said that. Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. We got that for it. That's a seven habits. That's right. Right. Yeah. That's a great book. There's a, that's been a big like political

talking point in recent years where people say things like intent doesn't matter. Like it absolutely matters. Like intent, I think, is equally, if not more important. Way more important for you to be aware of it. It's because we've all said things and phrased things in a way that maybe we didn't mean it in that way. Maybe we didn't have the action we took didn't best represent our intent,

but what you actually meant to do is incredibly important. This is not a debate. The law even recognizes it. If you accidentally kill someone, terrible travesty, horrible travesty, you are not treated the same as if you intended on killing someone. In fact, you could intend on killing someone

and fail, and you'll probably go to jail. Yeah, just because of the intent. So, it's a silly debate. Yeah, it's a silly debate that, yet we judge people differently though. I mean, us as people, right? And society, I think that's so funny. What have been your biggest challenges recently

for yourself, maybe over the last, let's say five years personally, or maybe even your business, where's some of the biggest challenges you've had to overcome? Oh, man. I think so, my greatest fear, so I didn't grow up with money at all. I had all, did not have money.

We had money, like I was able to survive and have a roof over the head, but it did not come from a wealthy family at all. And it was always like that and religion were big issues in my house. So one of my deep-seated fears is always around losing everything. And so, like, I don't even like to look at my bank account. I don't like to look at income. It's like, it's scary for me. My assistant will be like, Hey, like, this is the month that I'm like,

don't tell me like, I hate hearing it. I hate it. And that is something where, as I've achieved more, not in terms of success, but in terms of income, it's been a huge fear of mine, a huge anxiety of mine, because the greater it gets, the more I have to lose. Oh, interesting, yeah. And so that's been a huge, I could use the word battle.

It's just been a huge point that I'm trying to work on and improve. And it's always, whenever there was a point in my career, which unfortunately I haven't had this in many years, but early on when I would try to make more money, my anxiety would go up and my business would do more poorly, whereas when I focus less on money and more just on telling the truth, helping people,

things tend to go the right direction. But I also recognize that the anxiety that's there, I don't want it there. So I'm trying to face it more head on, I'm trying to be more aware of it, I'm trying to have discussions around it more and not just ignore it because it's the worst thing you can do because then you build up a bigger monster. But that is something that I've struggled with over the last few years. That's really interesting. Okay, so what do you, what's funny is that some,

what do you do because of that? So are there things that, I mean, do you, are you like super tight with your money because you are like that way? Yeah, so hang on to it and you're less likely to like, let's say, you're with some family or friends

and you easily could afford a $500 dinner if you wanted to but that's like, oh my God, why would I do that? Are you like that? Is that- So, I've saved to a fault. Thank God, it's been very good. But I've never, I don't have an issue

on spending money on experiences or people, like whether it's my mom or going out to dinner with people, but I never really buy anything for myself. But what I've done is I've tried to educate myself more on money. I've tried to learn about money, whether it's reading like Thomas Owl or if I just helped me tremendously learning more

about finance, learning more about markets. It's helped me become more logical with it. Do you have a tough time investing because of fear of losing? Like are you like super, like no, I'd rather save it? Oh no, I invest like and that's but it's been helpful. Like I've I've I invest every month and a considerable portion of my income every month. Um and not to go back to religion, but like a huge part of Judaism is is making sure you have money, but also then charity. So a huge portion of my income every month goes to investing and also charity and then saving. It's more, it's more just like that, the fear of like I could lose it

all. So we just bought land, we just bought some land we're going to build a house, that is fucking petrifying. That is like, I have never been, never, like the amount of stress that I have now with buying the land and building the house, I'm like holy shit. It's tough, so I literally, and I'll just be fully honest, I called the architect a week ago, and I was like, we're cutting the budget in half. I was like 50%, he's like, what? You like, they had the whole house already made up,

I was like, 50% cut it. He's like, what? So we're talking about it. He's like, maybe this isn't a motion reaction. But, but, so we're talking about it. You talk to me.

Yeah, like let's have it. Let's take a breather. But like, yeah, it's, it's very stressful on that front. So that, that is the biggest amount of money and biggest investment I've ever made in my life.

What I'm very excited about, but also scared shitless over. How similar or different are you than your wife in that situation? So my wife is like very even keel. Like she doesn't really get stressed at about really much at all. So she's my balance on that.

She'll be like, she's much just like, all right, well let's just talk about it. And it's fine. Like if we were the same, it would be bad. It would be like a volcanic eruption. I'm much more like, oh my God, and she's like, okay, let's just talk and then we'll, we'll, she's so calm.

My wife is just very, very calm and she's very go with the flow. She's like very zen-like. So it helps a lot. Yeah, so she's either way like, we could spend a much money on that or we can't. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, she's not like, we need this. You said this and she's like, okay, well, we know, a much money on that or we can't. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, she's not like, we need this.

You said this and she's like, okay, well, we know. I'll be happy even if we just rent whatever, like, so okay, cool, it's just. Yeah. It's super interesting about this is that somebody who has fears around money could go in like three different directions. I know, is it his story like totally,

you live a very similar story, right? I'm the opposite. I obsess about money. I, not a day goes by. I don't look at all my accounts, what we may, what the, like everything. Yeah, I obsess over it. I have movement.

Yeah. And so, and I have the exact same like religious money, or even the time of the fighting, all that stuff is the same. Like, we grew up a lot of like, we married a woman very, very similar. Yeah. But yeah, I'm the opposite.

I obsess over it. That's so funny. I also know people, I also know people who grew up that way who spend it real fast when they get it because they're afraid and they're like, get it out by whatever. And they don't have, isn't that interesting? It is. How different we can all react to different, you know, situations and stressors. Do you think about that with raising? Because I think a lot about that too, is like, like, so one of my fears of raising it, because I grew up the complete opposite,

like, my son will be very much so in a privileged, you know, lifestyle. And so my biggest fear of it is him being over privileged, right? I know that the things that made me successful was part of that adversity, was was not having, working towards. Like, so my fear is like, I don't want him to be spoiled. I don't want him to think that we can just buy whatever we want. So like, I think a lot about that.

And like, how I'll educate him in the future with money. Like, do you think about that already with your time? All the time. Okay. Even before she was born, I was thinking about all the time. And I was asking friends and mentors in mine, how is it like, I don't want them to be spoiled and doodododun. One of the greatest lines that I heard,

I forget who it was, but my buddy told it to me. He was like, well, yeah, there's like, if your daughter or your kid says, like, hey, I want money, it's like, you're, like, if your daughter is like, hey, I'm rich, it's like, no, you're not rich. I'm rich. I forget what you said. That's a good one.

You said that. Is that a good one? It's a check. It's a check said that line when he's to his kids. Like, no, no, no, no, no, you're not rich. I'm rich. And I mean, I think there's, I think what my mom did out of necessity is a lot of what I'll adopt in terms of like,

I remember a lot of kids got allowance. I didn't get an allowance. And I remember like, there was one kid, his name is Tucker. And for however old he was, that's how much money he got a week. So he got like, when you got $7, when he was eight, you got $8. And like when he was 15, you got 50.

And I was just like, and I was told my mom, I was like, well, he gets money and she was like, well, what does he do? And she's like, well, he cleans the dishes or I'll take the trash out. And I was like, I do that, and I don't get money. And he's just like, yeah, because you live under my fucking roof.

It's like, and so that's gonna be the same thing. Like, you're not gonna get an allowance just for living. It's like, I'm taking care of your food. I'm driving you to whatever it is. It's a, so I think a lot of that will be how I raise my daughter and again, God willing future kids. But there's also, I think a lot of that will be how I raise my daughter and again, God willing future kids. But there's also I think the very real understanding of you can't fabricate the fear that maybe

we had growing up because the fear was built out of arguments. The fear was built out of real issues. The fear was like, why don't we go on vacation? The lights really didn't come on. Exactly. Like that really happened. It's like you can't fabricate those things. So inherently there will be more comfort. But I, so I mean, I don't know

if that fear was a good thing for me. Maybe it was. I mean, I actually do think there are a lot of great things that come from fear. I think a lot of, I know a lot of people who've lost 100 pounds because they were fearful. A lot of people who've done amazing things because they were fearful. So I do think that fear is an important aspect in behavior change. But I also think there's a huge importance in understanding that they're not entitled to it. And just because you have money doesn't mean they're going to feel entitled to it. That's entitlement comes from giving, not earning.

Right, right. You have to be also worried about like overcompensating going the other way. Right, right. You had to be also worried about like over-compensating going the other way. So I'm just doing like, I also did accumulate all this so my kids could have a good life. I think that's the hard part. Just to make that balance. Make everybody feel better here,

because we're all dead. If you look at the data, if you, if your kid feels loved and there's some structure which provides security, it's like 95%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of everything. It's like, it's like with fitness, right?

Like, you eat whole natural foods, you look like some kind of you walk. That's like 95% of it. And that's what the data shows. It's like, you know, you could have a lot of things that you mess up on, but if they feel loved and secure, you're doing a damn good job. I like the fact that you think about it alone means

you're doing a good job. I like what Patrick Bet David does with his kids. I think it's really neat. He'll, like, so if they want, obviously he's Uber Rich. Is this the book's thing? So yeah, well yeah, so he'll put, so the kid will want a $500 star wars Lego thing and he'll actually put it super high in the house.

He'll elevate it based off of, and it represents amount of pages. I love that. And so he'll get it right away. Yeah, it's like it sits in that house and they don't get to play with it or hide all those books until they read a certain amount of books that equal whatever that.

It's so smart. I saw a clip of that and the comment section was wild. People are like, this is abuse. I'm like, you don't know what abuse is. Like, you are so dull. It's what an amazing tool is. It's like, hey, well, yeah, number one, if you want, you're gonna have to work for it.

And like, let's get you to work for it by learning, educating yourself, like, understanding that, it's not just in not like cleaning the dishes, yeah, that's great, that's a form of putting and work and helping the community, but you can also do that in 10, 15, 20 minutes. Let's like, have you read an entire book book and then have a discussion around the book. And so we understand like not everything, even if you do it, you still don't get it

super quickly. Let's make sure like, maybe it's take you two months to get that worth it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What's your big goal with your business besides the personal goals? Like, what is the big picture for you? What are you trying to do with what you're doing

with the fitness space? Yeah, I mean, the goal has remained the same. So ever since 2012, of every six months, I make a big list of goals. And I always have like the number one goal at the top. Like what's like the, you could call it the mission statement. I never call it a mission statement. Like what's like the main goal?

And ever since 2012, it's to help as many people as possible. There have been different types of goals, whether it's number of people in the membership, or number of downloads, or whatever it was. But the number one goal has always just been to help as many people as possible. That's the main goal. Building the inner circle, continuing to build the online fitness business and mentorship. And then I'm just about to, I'm embarking on a new fitness or business where I'm actually creating something for Giu-Jitsu competitors or Giu-Jitsu athletes because that space is very

far behind in strength and conditioning. Forever that the martial arts world, especially the Giu-Jitsu world has been based on you don't need strength It's just technique and technique is the most important But you have two people of equal technique the stronger one wins every time So the that world and strength conditioning is probably behind by 20 years And so I'm in the process of making something for Jiu-Jitsu competitors right now. What are some important? Strength training competitors right now. What are some important strength training parameters or techniques or exercises or movements

that you see being valuable to Getsu or Grapplers in general? There's a lot, but I would say isometric ability. Isometric strength is just like, it's the most overlooked from the perspective of, have you ever trained Getsu if you've done it? I did, I did for about six years. Oh, you did. I six years. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, dude, just got my probe about like six months ago.

Oh, it's my suggestion. Thank you. It's like the thing for me that was very surprising is, and I wrestled, but wrestling is especially, there's no ghee. Yeah. So it's so much more explosive. More explosive. So much more explosive.

Whereas, jujitsu especially in the ghee is like, it's more time under tension. You're holding on. You need more control inherently in order to get the submission. So it takes more time and isometric contraction. So even something is like, I would have someone in an arm bar, but like one of the main keys in an arm bar is squeezing your legs together.

And it's like, if you don't have your leg squeezed together, then they can move. Their shoulder is more open to be able to like rotate. So that it's not necessarily gonna break their elbow. So it's like, sometimes you gotta squeeze squeeze your legs together for 30 seconds straight. Or if you're holding someone down, you got to hold them. It's like you're using your biceps, you're using your back, you're using your lats. And if you gas out, if you don't have the isometric strength, then you're done.

So I think the ability to create force sustained over a long period of time isometrically or slowly, eccentricly is super important. So whether that's like simple med ball squeezes, I like doing inverted rows, but like we'll do like a set of 10 followed by like a max effort. How long can you hold that isometric position at the top? I do actually, I'll do if I'm doing hamstring curls,

I'll put like a med ball or a foam roller in between my legs to get the isometric contraction with the adductors while I'm doing the hamstring curl. So the isometric work I think is something that is super helpful for performance. Have you looked into, because we just wrote a program and it was based off of the bronze era of strength training. And they were isometric chant, like they isometrics was a big part of strength training. Yeah. And there's great studies from the Soviet Union

on the benefits of isometrics. I mean, it builds in a short period of time more strength than any of the form of exercise. Huge. So have you looked into some of those practices? And because I mean, there's some stuff that we learned that I looked at, I'm like, oh wow, this is really interesting. Yeah, it's like what specifically?

Oh, like overhead carries, you know, offset is really interesting. Yeah, it's like what specifically? Oh, like overhead carries, offset loaded positions, and that kind of stuff, their hands were involved on almost everything they did because they didn't even have a bench back then with a barbell and dumbbells. I love the mace work, I love the club work, Bulgarian bag work, I like that stuff a lot. For me, I've never been a bodybuilding guy

as you can see, like I'm not like a big dude. That's never been fun for me. I started wrestling when I was eight years old. So, kettlebells, maces, clubs, Bulgarian bags, I love that stuff. I love the movement, I love the explosion. I love, like, for me, I think, one of, I think, the best exercises for a Gigi Tzu

athlete is a kettlebell snatch. Or, or really, like, any type of kettlebell, but a Kettlebell snatch, it's very difficult to train explosiveness and endurance and grip all at once. With GJ2, especially sometimes you're grabbing on really tight and sometimes you're loose, tight, loose, tight, loose. The Kettlebell snatch, you have to learn, all right, well, I'm going to be loose throughout this and I'm going to be tight and I'm going to hold on to it, make sure it doesn't fly out of my hands.

The Kettlebell snatch is one of the things where you could just go for five minutes straight and I think it's one of the best exercises you can do. And so overhead work for sure, but all these different, I think Dan John calls them armor building, it's so smart. And that for me is where I have the most fun. I think.

You know, what I did is I took an old key and I cut the sleeves off and I create, I would wrap them around. So I do all my polling work with Guy's sleeves. Yeah. That made a huge difference. Their fingers got so strong. They got really strong from doing, I mean you look at old G2 fighters and you see their fingers are like their knuckles are. Yeah.

Because they developed just crazy grip strength but that made a big difference. I love it. Pull up like that, rows like that, hold them anything like that. Yeah. Big difference. Yeah. Jordan I want to get into a little more detail about your business because I don't But that made a big difference. Pull up like that, rows like that, hold them anything like that, big difference. Yeah. Jordan, I want to get into a little more detail about your business because I don't know

if you've heard me say this, I've definitely said it many times. If I didn't have these three other brilliant guys with me and I had to build this business by myself and you had to start all over, that would probably build it similar to how you've structured your business. And so for the coaches and trainers that

are listening to this podcast, I'd like to, if you feel comfortable with doing a little bit deeper dive, like I'd love to know like what has been the most profitable for you, not just financially, but also like takes at least time and effort maybe with the most return for you, what are maybe some things that you've done or still do that actually, like you thought we're going to be very profitable, that weren't very profitable. Talk a little bit about how your business is structured right now and what is most profitable for you and maybe some of the mistakes that you made building it. Yeah.

I mean, so whatever you want to know, I will tell you, full, like, 4th, right, 100%. I will say at the very beginning, what I do now is not what I would recommend for most people. And a large part of it is based on my audience size. And I think what I have now is the main thing is my membership, the inner circle membership. I think a lot of people want that. Number one, they think it's relatively easy. And I go, it's scalable. It's like, good fucking luck. If you think this is easy, it's a ton of work. It also has an inherently higher churn rate.

And people think, oh, well, if I could do a lower cost thing, then I'm gonna get more people signing up. It's like, that's a stupid way to look at it. It's just, if someone was on the street selling, I don't know, Pokemon cars, and you don't like Pokemon cars, it doesn't matter if that Pokemon car is 10 cents or $10 or $100.

You're not gonna buy it anyway because you don't fucking like it. The hardest part is just getting someone to pay for it, period. So early on from 2011 to 2015, it was just one on one online coaching. That was it. I didn't have a membership. It was at that point, it was between $300 to $400 a month.

And I get at the peak, and this was way too much, was about 80 clients online. And that was when I was like, I need to start something more scalable, because I have, I can't give 80 people a great service. It's taking up 16 hours a day of email. So I, that's when I was like, all right, now I'm going to start making something scalable. That's when I decided to make the inner circle. But I think from an income perspective and a work-life balance perspective and not needing a large audience perspective, you can easily have 30 to 50, 101 on my coaching clients make an incredible living and also have amazing work-life balance. I think that amount of clientele, you don't need a huge audience. If you have a couple hundred Instagram followers, you have a couple hundred people listening,

you could easily do that for sure. So I think from ease of access, actually working with real people and creating a sustainable business that supports you, your family and health people, I think one-on-one coaching is the best option. If you build a larger audience, and that takes a lot of work, takes a lot of work to build a lot. More than people realize, more than people have it, even if you,

there are people, especially the way that algorithm works now where you can go viral and have a big audience with one video, but it doesn't mean you have their attention all the time. So if you have a large audience of people who are really invested in you, then the idea of scaling something can make sense, but I would start, like, it goes in-person coaching,

number one, then one-on-one online coaching, then if you decide and you have the ability, then you can have something more scalable, which is what I have now. But I think the vast majority of people would be better off just doing one-on-one online coaching with maybe with a mix of in-person coaching as well, a little bit of a hybrid. Do you think that that has a lot to do with like because we get asked a lot why we didn't

do an app or have this monthly thing? And one of the reasons why I mean I hate that model because I think it's the commitment to having to be because the turn rate is so high, and it commits you to having to constantly be every month, every month creating more and more puddings to convince those people to keep paying that monthly subscription. And yet I think that's the go to model that so many coaches and trainers think. So looking back, do you think that, do you think you priced yourself too low in that, or do you think that, like, because here's where I work, where I'm going, like inevitably, I would want to scale beyond just the product.

Like if you just wanted to make a good living, like you said, you could be totally good. Like, if I have aspirations of being a multi-millionaire, I want to scale and go bigger. Obviously, that's, you got to go beyond that. So, let's say that's what, if you were to go over, do it again, you know you're going to go on that trajectory again, you're gonna outgrow coaching of 80 clients. What are some steps that you would have probably done different knowing what you know now? Still going for like trying to have a bigger bit.

Yeah, big of a deal. You've outgrown, you got 80 clients, you're on your way to making more money, you're getting bigger, like what would you done differently about the way you went? Yeah, so this is, and this is advice I got from Eric Cresti when I was younger and I didn't listen to it. It was I wouldn't have put my name on the business.

I wouldn't have had my name on it, wouldn't be my face. Yeah, it's hard to have someone else help you. Right? Yeah, it's very difficult. Everybody wants you. Everyone wants me. I'm the one. It's like when they get an email, it's like,

what does Jordan say? Or like when like even on social media, I think there's so, one thing that you guys do very well, and we spoke about is you build other people up. And I think you could have a business that builds other coaches up that is more of a community

as a post necessarily being your name. And if you really want to get into making money that I haven't made, but I've seen people do, is building these businesses, having equity in these businesses, and then being able to sell them off, something like that. And I see this with apps,

and that's actually to be candid and forthright, this jujitsu app will not have my name, and will not have my face. It has nothing to do with me. So when I first launch it, obviously I use my current audience to launch towards the bill,'ll know it's me. But within like two to five years,

I would love it if no one knew that I was the one behind it. That's the direction I'm going with that, where it's like, it's not my name, not my face. I just wanna have really great workouts and nutrition advice if I can get other strength coaches involved, other Jiu-Jitsu competitors involved, amazing, but it will not be my name and face. You know where I learned that when I was 23,

22 is when I got promoted to become a fitness manager. So I was a trainer from 20 to 21 and a half for 22 range, so for a year or two years. And then, at that time, you're just figuring it out and you're selling people on personal training with you. Then I get promoted to be a fitness manager where now I'm responsible for 15 trainers underneath me. I still am selling personal training with you. Then I get promoted to be a fitness manager where now I'm responsible for 15 trainers underneath me. I still am selling personal training,

but now my trainers are going to train. And I had such a difficult time that first year of, you know, I was so good at like presenting myself. And then people would be like, okay, well, when do we start? Oh no, well, Jordan's gonna take me to be like, oh, well, no, well, then I don't wanna buy. I'll be like, oh fuck, what do I do, right?

So that was a real hard transition. Once I figured out that I would sell the program, sell everything else that we do, or already be talking about how great the trainer that's going to take them is they're better than I am. That took a skill to be able to do that. I learned that in my early 20s.

So, and so do these guys. So I knew when we built this, even when we had nobody even paying attention to us, we had the foresight to go like, hey, like at one point, if we do a good job, we will be at that transition when we know, like we want to be able to hand the keys over to somebody else to be able to carry it on.

If we did a good job of selling the philosophy or the programming and so that it's not us. Yes. But I had to go through that. So I wouldn't even have the Adam podcast. Yeah. You're really pushing for it. Yeah.

We don't really well to get so that way. Yeah. You're correct. You're okay. So okay, we make, you learn that part, your inner circle is the inner circle the most profitable part for you. Yes. By far.

Okay. And then have you, like, had you taken on any sponsors or partnerships, like, so you don't? No, never. So talk why, and would you do that differently? No, I wouldn't do that differently. Okay. Not, so the thing is, and it's not that I think it's bad for everybody, it's just for me, I never wanted my income

to be in the hands of someone else. So, for example, if I say something that a sponsor doesn't like, I don't want them to pull funding. I never wanted to be like, okay, so I don't want to not say this because they're going to have to be sensitive. I have to be sensitive. It's like, for me, the number one thing is just, I have to say what I believe to be true. And so I felt like if I started doing sponsors, number one inherently I would become more biased.

There's sort of no way around it. You have that financial incentive. Even if you're like, no, but I'm going to tell the truth. You have that in the back of your head. I didn't want that. I didn't want the hesitation. I didn't want the thought. It's like I only want people to pay me because I have something that they can be that can be helpful to them. So that

was really it. I was like, if I do sponsors, I'm setting myself up for potential issues. Can I can I can I add something to that? Yeah. I love how we did it. So yeah. So you're right. 100% that's what that was our fear with working with sponsors. But here's what we learned. Well, we learned this a long time ago. We brought this into the business because we did other things before. If we show them the numbers, we could say what do we want. And so we've literally had sponsors email us and go, Adam said our product tastes like shit on the podcast. Like, but Sal said it's effective. And then they'd say, but you can't say that.

And we'd say, look at your numbers. And then they'd be like, never mind. You're just silly on the product. Or we say, you can't work with us. Yeah. I mean, that way we waited early on, we denied sponsorship. Because early on, some people looked at us to take advantage of the platform we had built.

And we weren't interested in that. Yeah. So we waited, waited, waited, waited. Until it got to a point where it's like, listen, there's products and things that we all like and use. Like, let's go pursue them. So we would pursue companies that we already love products for things they use

and say, hey, here's a deal. We have this audience, we do this. And a lot of times I had to offer sponsorship and I would just like you would with training clients for free or low. Let us show you, hey, if we talk about it, you'll see the results from it. And that's how we would present it. We were going to talk about the products anyways.

We like them. We use it. They would see the huge numbers from it. Then they come back, okay, let's do something. Then when we start the contract, it'd be like, well, here's the deal. We're not going to do reads. We're going to talk about it the way we don't talk about it. There's no length on how we're going to talk about it. Like, and we're going to be honest about how we feel about it.

And we want nothing affiliate related, meaning I don't talk about it. There's no length on how we're gonna talk about it. And we're gonna be honest about how we feel about it. And we want nothing affiliate related, meaning I don't want any ties to the performance. To our deal. Here's the contract. You pay us this much. That's the flat. I don't care if it goes up or down or like that.

It's like, because I don't want to be motivated by performance. I don't want to feel like, oh, we're under performing. So we've got to really sell it on the next episode. And so we just, and it took longer to do it that way. We didn't make a lot of money at first, but eventually it did. Eventually, we found all the partners you want to work with, the performance. You know what it is. Well, and then the irony is the health and fitness space has been lying for so long. Yeah. That when you're honest, people trust you and then they follow your advice. Right. Yeah. So when we say, you know, this is a, it's a, you know, it actually works,

but it tastes like crap. People are like, oh, he's being honest. Right. Right. Because we are. Yes. And they end up buying and we'll still, and I'll still talk about something even if we're not paid for it. It's just like, hey, I use this product. They don't pay us. Hey, we talk about you all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Is that a major part of the business? The advertiser, does that contribute a lot? It is significant now, but it's not the majority. And it caught up, but yeah, was originally. Yeah, the MAPS programs has always been a bulk

of the revenue. It's what built the business, but all the bolt-ons now. And that's closest. So that of all the revenue streams, advertising and sponsorship is second. Oh, is it? MAPS is number one. Yeah, got it. That's closest so that of all the revenue streams advertising and sponsorship is second. Oh, is it? Oh yeah, it's the number one.

Yeah, got it. Yeah, so it's anything. And it's, and what is best about that actually, what I think I appreciate the most is here we are going into overnight even there yet, but next year, before this year is over, advertising for the entire year will be paid. Wow.

So talk about the relief and stress and pressure of running a team. Right, right. Pay bills like that and the amount of money that covers all everything. Wow. So that's all overhead, all expenses, everything is all completely covered

from the sponsorship side. So we know going in the next year, the like I'm not, so the business is going up or down or programs aren't selling as much. There's no stress because we have that base from our partnership. So as long as we get on these mics and communicate talk, the business will stay afloat and there's that less pressure.

So that's probably the part I think I appreciate the most is having that security for the people. I mean, I think the most stressful thing for us now is just like the amount of employees and stuff that we have. Like, I mean, they probably don't realize it, but how much that's what keeps me up at for us now is just like the amount of employees and stuff that we have, like, I mean, they probably don't realize it, but how much that's what keeps me up at the, you know, Ebb and Flow of the business.

How many employees you guys have? What do we have to like 20 or so? Give a take, that are full-time employees and then a lot of contractors that are working for us too. That's amazing. Yeah, so as a leader in the space, and we consider you definitely

one of the leaders in the space, what would you say are the biggest roadblocks for us to really make an impact to help people figure this out? Like what are the biggest right now? What do you think are the biggest struggles that were or challenges that we have to overcome? For like people with an audience or people who are making content. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I think misinformation is the biggest one. I mean, I just, every day I'm sent posts, but this person says this, and they're a doctor,

and they have this, it's like, the misinformation is, I think, the biggest one. I also think that, like we spoke about, is the cultural lifestyle that people are having, like overcoming that. And like you said earlier, mental health is at an all time low. Isn't that crazy?

At all time low. And like after everything we've been through over the last few years, it's like the least surprising thing. It's like, it's crazy, but I'm not surprised, you know? And I think when mental health is at an all time low, it gets increasingly more difficult to get people to believe in themselves, to make them believe that it's worth it,

that they can actually accomplish it. And I think so many people are just stuck in a place of like, I don't think I can do it. I don't think it's worth it. I'm stuck, I can't do it. And so not only are we fighting misinformation, not only are we fighting like a cultural lifestyle, but we're also fighting their own demons in their head,

being like, I don't think I can do it. And we've got a, you absolutely can. One of my favorite conversations around individual responsibility, but it's very difficult for people to feel like they can take responsibility if they don't feel like they can do anything at all. They feel disempowerable. Yeah. I think the one thing that the fitness space communicates, they should communicate better,

that we don't enough focus, and I understand why the market values, how you look, the value, when you lose weight, what you look like, and how great you look. But we do not communicate the mental health benefits of fitness at all, well enough. Correct.

And the data is clear. However, much of a positive impact fitness makes on your physical health, it's actually more impactful on your mental health. It's the most impactful thing you can do for anxiety, depression, any type of negative mental state. Nothing shows the positive impact that fitness shows in its short period of time. And then in the long period of time, there's no loss of effects or down regulation receptors

or I need to use a new medication. It keeps working better for your mental health. We don't talk about this enough. That all. And the story that comes to my mind is when I was, I think I must have been 21, I was coaching at a gym. And I would, one of the reasons I would love having people deadlift is because whenever I told them

how much weight they lifted, they would freak out. And I'll never forget there was one woman who came in and she had a lot of weight to lose and she was very self-conscious. And it was her first session. And when we were gonna be deadlifting, I told her I was like, how much do you think you can lift? She was like, I don't know, like 20 pounds.

I was like, by the end of today, you're gonna lift over to 100 pounds. And she was like, no, she was absolutely not. There's no way. And so we had like the beast kettlebell, like big, big, big kettlebells. And so she wasn't lifting the barbell. It looked really intimidating to her.

And at the end of it, like she had deadlifted over 100 pounds. I didn't tell her how much weight it was. I was like, all right, just lift this one, just lift this one, all right, cool, now lift this one. And she put it down, I was like, guess how much weight that was. And she was like, I was like, 105, she started crying. Oh, yeah.

It wasn't because the physical, like the physical benefit was like, oh my God, now she's so much physically healthier. She was crying the mental, like the confidence she made a Facebook post when she got home. Oh my God, this has improved like one day and she lifted over 100 pounds, it's like that is the type of mental health benefits

that we see that that will make her more consistent for years to come because of that confidence that came from it. There's no way I wouldn't be able to do that. Well now she believes in herself. And so these are the mental health benefits that people can get and that starts with things like that. Jordan, when you were talking earlier and you mentioned this on the podcast too, that, you know,

school didn't come easy to you. You were in some special ed classes because of ADD and attention issues and that kind of stuff and that was very challenging to you, especially coming from an academic family. If you didn't have fitness, what do you think you'd be through all that? I think about that all the time. I have no idea. And it wouldn't be good. That is for sure. I wouldn't be able to function in a cubicle. I don't think I'd be able to function in an office. I was never good with taking orders from people.

You have to do this. I was not good with that. I I was never really good with numbers, I was never good with organization, any of that. So I don't know where I would be, but it would be bad. I very much believe it because I don't think I'd be able to function in what we consider normal. Today a normal job, a usual job, what people would call a safe job.

I don't think I would be able to function in that. So I know that after high school when I went to Israel, I was very close to joining these really defense forces. It was something that I wanted to do and the only reason I didn't is because my mom said she'd fucking kill me. But like could have been a military background. I very much wanted to join the IDF and that's something in the future I'd like to do is I would like to be able to provide military with good strength and conditioning for free. That would be something that I'd love to do in the future I'd like to do is I would like to be able to provide a military with good strength and conditioning

for free that would be something I'd love to do in the future but without fitness, I have an idea, no clue, but it wouldn't be good. What are the, what are some of the benefits you got through fitness that have nothing to do with your physical body? Mm, I mean, the community around it has been amazing. And this is something I've been talking a lot about. And it obviously like not watching the news,

but the other thing is community and people will talk to me all the time, but what can I do for my health? I'm like, go hang out with real people in real life. And so that's like even now, like I always try and like, I'll coach people for free in person sometimes. And like, it's one of the reasons I love Jiu Jitsu

is like you have to do it in person, you have to, and then you can go out after Jiu Jitsu and you go get some good beer, whatever it is, like hang out, go on a walk. But I think the community for me has been the most amazing part. It's just like connecting with people, speaking with people who have different views on so many different things, but it's like, we're together. I mean, that was the, in the blue zone, that's the number one thing that's can kind of, the most common thing amongst all the blue zones is the is the community aspect. You know what's so frustrating for me recently is I keep seeing

these articles talking about how the toxicity of gyms how gyms are not welcoming or inclusive, how they fat shame. For those of us who've been working out for years, it's so frustrating to read that because, let me ask you, can you name a more inclusive place than a hardcore gym? No, it's like the nicest, most incredible, like encouraging. If you wanna see like one of the most amazing, go to a powerlifting competition and watch everybody cheering,

like even people competing against each other. You've got this, like everyone's yelling, like you can do this, like people who've never been to a competition before teaching them how to warm up properly, it's the most amazing place. I think people look at them and they actually end up judging them based on how they look. They're big, they have beers, they're tattooed,

they're judging me, it's like you're judging them based on how they look. Like I bet if like if you got close to them, they'd be, hey, let me help you with this, let me help you with that. It's like the most encouraging, most supportive community, these hardcore gems. Like the, like when someone walks in,

they're like, yeah, it's another one. Another one like, let's help. Let's help. It's the nicest place ever. I know. I actually even felt that in the bodybuilding world, which I would have never thought. Is it a hard, cool one?

Yeah, because it's a superficial type of world. You are judged on the way you look, but I was surprised by the how accepting, welcoming, and support of that community was, remember being backstage, not knowing anybody, and everybody, I think it has something to do with, we all know what the other person went through, right? Like there's like this,

we all respect this struggle. Yeah, like if you got there, I don't care if you were the worst physique at everybody or you were the weakest person on that stage of day, you know that person, what they went through just to get to that point. And there's something about that, you wanna support that and encourage that.

It's not just like putting down or like laughing at or point with this. You don't get any of that at all. It's like, I think I really enjoyed. That was one of my favorite things, the few things I think I really liked about bodybuilding was I did like that. There was that community feel,

even in a sport where you're competing against you. I'll tell you something right now. If you go to, if you're listening right now and you go to a hardcore gym, do not ridicule anybody and act like, you will get kicked out faster. Yeah. Then you can, you can even realize.

Yeah. Because that's the environment that you're in. So when I read those articles, I just go, God, this is terror. It's not even slightly true. It's so opposite of, and again, I have a friend. He's a priest and he lifts weights, right? He's Father Steve, great guy.

And him and I have talked about this and he goes, you know, the church should learn a lot from. James, he goes, the gym is the most inclusive place I've ever been. Like you go in and if you're working out, they love you. And they're supporting you and that's that. Yeah, you clean up your equipment. You don't stand in front of the dumbbell rack

when you're doing all this. So you're fine, like everyone loves you. I don't know, that's pretty amazing. We're joined, it's always fun talking to you bro. Likewise, honestly, thank you all so much. For you, for the whole team, for everyone, it's always a pleasure coming out. And I really appreciate you guys. I appreciate the honesty, I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate what you do for the whole team, for everyone, it's always a pleasure coming out. I really appreciate you guys, I appreciate the honesty, I appreciate the conversation,

I appreciate what you do for the space, so thank you for having me out. Well, you keep doing what you're doing, man. You're doing a damn good job, and I hope you create more people like you, because we could use it for sure. Thank you very much. Appreciate you, man. You got to both. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at

MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com.

If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is MindPump. Thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mindbump.