Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2175: A Call to Action for All Trainers & Coaches With Jason Phillips

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast in the world. This is Mind Pum, right? Today's episode, this is a call to action, to all personal trainers and fitness coaches out there. Today's episode we have Jason Phillips.

Starting point is 00:00:27 He's the trainer of trainers. He knows how to develop online coaches to being super effective and extremely successful. In fact, he's responsible for hundreds of coaches becoming extremely successful. This guy you want to listen to if you're a trainer or coach. In today's episode, we talk all about that world, the state of the fitness industry,

Starting point is 00:00:47 and how to be truly effective. And because he was on our show, he's giving away a scholarship to NCI, that is phenomenal. In fact, if you enter and you win, you get, you're ready for this, all of their content for free. Everything paid for with this scholarship.

Starting point is 00:01:05 So all you gotta do is enter, go to nciminepump.com, forward slash, October, dash, scholarship. Now this episode is brought to you by one of our sponsors, PRX, they make at home gym equipment, that's as good or better than the stuff you see in the gym, but it's all designed to save space. So to give you an example, they have a squat rack that folds into the wall.

Starting point is 00:01:27 And when you want to use it, you pull it off the wall and it's extremely stable and solid, but they have lots of equipment that you can choose from that you could put in your home garage or your home gym room. It's great. You can also paint monthly. So it's like paying a gym membership, except you work out at home. If you're interested, go to PRXPerformance.com forward slash Mind Pump. And by the way, that link will get you 5% off. We're also running a sale this month on some workout programs. Our Bands workout program,

Starting point is 00:01:56 Maps Bands is 50% off. And then we have the Skinny Guy or Hard Gainer bundle. This is a bundle of workout programs designed to pack on muscle, size, strength, or to boost a very slow metabolism. The programs are maps and a bulk maps aesthetic in the no BS 6 pack formula. That entire bundle is 50% off. If you're interested in either one, go to mapsfitinistproducts.com

Starting point is 00:02:21 and then use the code October 50 for that discount. All right, here comes a show. Off air, we were talking about, you're saying how you feel like the space is going to get regulated. Yeah. So talk about that a little bit. What do you mean by that? Uh, I think that, first of all, on the, I don't think it's going to be like a education-based regulation. Like I don't think they're going to come in and be like, where's your college degree? Blah blah blah. Extenders. Yeah, because there's just so many be like a education-based regulation. Like I don't think they're gonna come in and be like, where's your college degree, blah, blah, blah, these standards? Yeah, because there's just so many loopholes there.

Starting point is 00:02:49 There's so much gray area. I'm quote, unquote, giving advice, et cetera. But when we start looking at like the advertising and marketing space, that's where it really starts to come in. Right? Like that's when, if you say on a Facebook ad, this program will make you $10,000. You're implying that if somebody purchases, they do the work, they will make you $10,000. You're implying that if somebody purchases, they do the work,

Starting point is 00:03:07 they'll make the $10,000. And if that doesn't hold up to be true, or if you don't have anything to back that up, if you haven't personally achieved it more often than it's failed, then you can't really make that statement, right? It's no longer a true statement. So you're talking about the space where people are teaching you

Starting point is 00:03:23 how to build a business or make money advertising or using your methods, that space has existed for a long time. I remember as a kid, I bought a few of these kids. It was a big embarrass to tell you the first question. Who's the guy on the boat? Hold on, I bought don'ts. No, no, wait, I'm gonna tell you two that I bought

Starting point is 00:03:43 and we'll see if you, well you're younger than I am, but we'll, let's see if you remember. Donald the pre was one of them. You placed tiny little ads and newspapers across to whatever was this whole method. And then the other one was Tom Vue. He was this, Tom Vue is the book, Tom Vue, he was this,

Starting point is 00:03:57 I remember that name. Yeah, he was this, this immigrant Asian dude, and he was on a yacht, and he's like, look at me, beautiful women. I make lots of money. He probably sold the same product that I bought, which was like coffee shop millionaire. I was like, you ever noticed that all the guys,

Starting point is 00:04:10 they show up to a coffee shop in a Ferrari, and all they do is they sit there in their laptop, and they're making money for their laptop, but I was like, I wanna make money for my life. That's so cool. This is great. Actually, I swear to God, if you went into my Gmail right now, I'm almost positive, there's a folder

Starting point is 00:04:25 that says coffee shop millionaire because I like put all of the shit from that product. Oh my God. Look up Tom Voo. Tom Voo app. Yeah, I had to make money or whatever on the yacht. You guys see this guy. We ended up in the long run

Starting point is 00:04:37 meeting the guy that helped him build that funnel. He's like coffee shop millionaire. He's like, I fucking knew that product. And like the guy was connected to like Rich Shephrin and like he was a part of the company. Oh my like oh my god like this. This is so incestuous It's so you think so you think this is gonna be general over all like like basically No, no, no, it's it's a hundred percent not fitness fitness would be the last I think yeah, cuz this space exists for everything real estate finance so I think we would call it the expert space.

Starting point is 00:05:06 Okay, so now anybody claiming, yeah, the guru would experts. Now was it not regulated before? Cause like I said, it's been around for a long time. I mean, technically yes. I don't, we could tell him, just come, food is babes. This is the title of it. I bought this, so they've got it.

Starting point is 00:05:21 And I would always show these dudes, you know, and they show their paycheck. So there's the previous right there. On your heart. I come to this country, look at me, beautiful women. Lots of money. And I bought it. He probably killed it.

Starting point is 00:05:35 That was like 15 years ago. Oh, he went to jail. Did he go to jail? Yeah, he did. For what? I think ripping people off. He's not gay. It's been going on for 10 years.

Starting point is 00:05:43 That's true. Did he go through this? Look up how much you how like what is jail time and what happened to him? Because I didn't know that. I didn't know he went to jail. Oh yeah. Did he got busted for fraud? So that's so I'm saying the regulations existed, but you think they're going to make because the internet changed the game. Yeah. It totally and so what do you think they're going to they're going to come down with? He's actually never formally charged.

Starting point is 00:06:03 Wow. Yeah. So he's free to go. Oh, wrong. See? My bad. We'll look him up later and see how he do that. How do you get away with that? So yeah, you think it's gonna be around the, like, the,

Starting point is 00:06:15 I don't know how they're gonna impose it. And I don't know what's triggered the companies that have quote unquote gone through it. Because I know firsthand at least two companies that have gone through it. Very large companies, multiple, multiple, multiple figure companies. So I don't know, I don't know what triggered it.

Starting point is 00:06:31 I know one of them, the claims that were being made, were just egregious. They were so outlandish that something happened. But I think that being in business at some point, you're gonna have people that just, we've had people that they want like a $5,000 refund, and we're just like listen, it has nothing to do with the $5,000,

Starting point is 00:06:49 but if we do it for you, all of a sudden opens up the doors, and we've got to do it for a lot of people, like the policies of the policies, we will try to get you $50,000 in value, like we want to help you, but we're trying to stay on a policy. Like, oh, I'm gonna fucking go to like better business bureau, and I'm in the worst, like really,

Starting point is 00:07:03 like this is where it's going. So I think at some point every business has that customer. I don't know what triggers the FTC right now but I know they're watching. What it reminds me of is because the fitness space has done this for a long time. Well they'll show or supplement space. Yeah. Well those show some really crazy before and after. Yeah. And people then will be led to believe like oh if I take that supplement or if I hire that trainer like hydroxy cut. Yeah and it doesn't happen in the way that they've

Starting point is 00:07:28 been regulated. You have to put like this, you know, disclaimer on there. Exactly. So I'm wondering. So you're starting to see that now in digital shit. So I do this thing on webinars all the time where like in the very beginning, intro myself, and I'd be like, By the way, if you haven't already been able to figure it out, I'm pretty much a fucking lunatic, and that absolutely nothing I say should be taken seriously. And so I'm like, so, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:07:50 you know what I'm gonna talk about these millions of dollars I've made that I've absolutely made, but like, don't take my journey there very seriously, because I'm not saying that your journey should look like mine, that mine's fucked. And like, so I say it that way, where I'm doing the disclaimer, but I say it in a way that's very conversational.

Starting point is 00:08:05 That's being done in every webinar now. And everybody's figured out a way. Like Frank Kern, I know he had some shit. Dude, he's very careful now. Yeah, I feel like first off, the burden is always on the consumer, but we already have laws to protect against fraud. And I think those laws are still okay.

Starting point is 00:08:22 Like if I sell a product and say, you are guaranteed. Well, then yeah, now I'm not. So where's the middle ground though? Because let's say somebody buys maps. Yeah. And you say, here's the results associated with maps. Right. And you're not saying guaranteed if you do this,

Starting point is 00:08:38 you're going to get that. Right. But so they're like, well, I changed my diet. Right. And I went and I did these exercises every day. And they did about like 50% effort. And they walked through the gym. They talked on their phone while they were doing them.

Starting point is 00:08:52 But they quote unquote did the program. Right? How are we drawing that long? What's so you use? You also, you use an example of what we didn't do. Because that's like, this is our Achilles heel of why we haven't scaled ridiculous numbers. But I think that's, I think that you're smart

Starting point is 00:09:06 because it's authentic. Yeah, well, it's coming from other people. I was just, I feel smart now because you're telling us this because I mean, that's the one that I think it's, I actually think that you're, you've done it the right way. And there's a, the, I tell people are like, what's the guarantee on your product? And I was like, the guarantee is if you do the work,

Starting point is 00:09:21 you'll get a result. And if you're looking for a guarantee today that says like, if you buy this, you'll make $10,000, I'm probably, the guarantee is if you do the work, you'll get a result. And if you're looking for a guarantee today that says like, if you buy this, you'll make $10,000, I'm probably not the guy for you because you're trying to bet on me more than you're trying to bet on you. And I've already made my fucking money, you still need to.

Starting point is 00:09:34 That's 100%. So I'm glad you used our programs as an example because one thing that we, and I know you did the same thing, Jason, because you, before you did this business, you coach people for a long time. And this is what separates, I think, influencers, quote-unquote influencers from people who've actually done it.

Starting point is 00:09:50 We learned as trainers relatively quickly, one of the biggest mistakes you can make as a trainer, that will crush your business, where you will fail, as you over promise and under deliver. One of the best things you could do is under promise. So I would actually always set people up for expectations that were terribly low.

Starting point is 00:10:08 And that would set them up for success. And so that's what we often do. In fact, when we talk about coaches being a trainer and being a coach on the show, we never glamorize it. And so we're always surprised, almost surprised, when people call and say, I became a trainer because I listened to your show. I was like, God, we tell people what a tough job it is.

Starting point is 00:10:26 How much you're gonna fail, how much it sucks. You don't make a lot of money. But I think it's because we under promise and people hear the authenticity. So I'm glad to use this as an example. What do you think leads to that? Do you think that you do your first ad where you give somewhat of a guarantee

Starting point is 00:10:43 or your transformation. This person was here, now they're here or they made this much money, now they make this much money. And then you see like great return and then you just start getting crazier. Absolutely. That's how I think it's like a great thing. Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously good friends of Alex were mostly right. And Alex puts this book out $100 million of offers and in the offer, or in the value equation, that the whole book is basically predicated on,

Starting point is 00:11:07 he talks about you have to have a guarantee, right? Or he basically says, he talks about likelihood of achievement. It says the way that you increase likelihood of achievement is you add a guarantee to it. And so now, I mean, there are some fucking outlandish guarantees where I'm a believer that every time the market trends towards something,

Starting point is 00:11:23 if you really want to win, you need to trend away from it, which is why like, now like when I teach, I'm like, I don't think you need a guarantee. And I actually think that if you're a product today, you know, we're recording this, what September and 2023, if you're a product you're just coming out, putting a guarantee out there

Starting point is 00:11:39 tells every consumer that you're just like everything out there. Because what they're hearing right now is like, well, I'll coach you for six months, and if we don't hit your result, I'll keep coaching you for free. Or like, if you buy my year-long program, I guarantee you'll lose this, or I'll keep coaching you for free. Like, what else can you guarantee? Like, if you're a coach, you're not going to give somebody their money back.

Starting point is 00:11:55 You can't guarantee their work ethic. It's so hard to do it. So the only real guarantee there is like, well, we'll do this, you know, or I'll keep coaching you, or I'll give you access. And so the guarantees are all the fucking same. Well, now you might as well be the same price, you might as well be the same service. The only thing you're differentiating on now is the person. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:12 Well, that's a liability in and of itself because how the fuck can you scale that? Yeah. How can you scale you? You can't. Your time and energy are done. Um, I also, I also think the guarantee model too is just like a, it's a quick fix or a bandaid for someone who's trying to scale or build a business because ultimately, you might convince 10 people faster

Starting point is 00:12:33 because you have this guarantee or transformation example of somebody, but if I actually take one person and fundamentally change their business or change their life, We're talking about training. That person is going to go talk to people for the rest of their life about me. It's just going to take a lot longer to catch up to the leads that the person who just guaranteed a bunch of stuff. But the good news, and this is what I think would happen with maps, was it was that very

Starting point is 00:12:58 slow process, but that compounds. And then once you've helped millions of people, you got millions of people that are constantly talking about how much that you'd change your life and I don't have to guarantee anything. They're going to go do the guarantee for you without you even having to say it. It's interesting like as I'm hearing you say that I'm thinking just about speed, right? Speed is the only thing I'm thinking about and I'm thinking you guys in your words you think maps was like slow-ish, right? Like grants gave a thing so pretty quickly because built a lot of really big business relatively quickly. But for the current marketplace, people would think about it as slow. I think speed could eliminate the word speed, you could just say stress, right? So the faster you go,

Starting point is 00:13:39 the more stress you're going to have. Totally. But I don't think about it just as physiological stress. I think about physical stress, too. So you take the company and you envision it as have. Totally. But I don't think about it just as physiological stress. I think about physical stress too. So you take the company and you envision it as a physical thing and you apply force, you apply load, right? That's stress to the infrastructure. The faster you go, the increase, you're just increasing that stress. You're increasing

Starting point is 00:13:56 that load and most people in a brand new company, what don't they have? They don't have infrastructure. Right. They have no support. They can't fucking do it. So it's like, all right, well, let's just magically say that the guarantee

Starting point is 00:14:06 was the proverbial opening of the floodgates. All of a sudden you open up the floodgates, you bring people in, you're not going to hit your guarantee because your infrastructure is gonna be so bad. And I think that there's a whole different conversation we can definitely go into it. I think what people have been pursuing in the last four years is wrong.

Starting point is 00:14:22 And I think that, you know, I'll take my part in this because I was one of the first coaches in the space to hit multiple seven figures. What I didn't talk about enough was like the margins at multiple seven figures. So like at my peak in 2020 when we sold the coaching business, it was, I think it was generating like three million-ish per year. And I think that the margins on that were 33%. So let's just say I was taking home a million dollars here. It's about pretty accurate, right? I guarantee you today, if I were to rebuild, I would go a little slower. I would get the company to like one, five, one, six, and it still take home a million dollars. Right. And there's one point five of

Starting point is 00:15:00 top line that I'll leave on the table, but that's one point five of stress that I'm never going to have to deal with. And I think a lot of coaches, they see what I've done, they see what some of these other coaching companies have done, and the only thing that's thrown around in the digital space is top line revenue. Nobody talks about take home. And so like, I asked my coaches recently, this is what we started doing on our quarterly planning. We go into the quarter and I say, all right, first question, what do you want to take home

Starting point is 00:15:20 next quarter? And I mean, I get looked at like a deer and fucking headlights. And I'm like, you're running a business, you're the CEO of a business, you have a team working for you. You know, they're in this group with me because they're all doing a certain revenue level. And it's like, you don't know what you want to fucking make. That's scary. And then it's like, cool. How do we know how much we should produce top line? Because those two should be directly correlated, right? We should know top line. Let's just say 100 km on it produces, you know, post-tax, 30 K take on.

Starting point is 00:15:47 And they're like, oh, I don't know, I just want to make more. And I'm like, well, what's more? And when is that enough? And at what point is this business not serving that enough? And like, that's where I think so many mistakes are being made. I really, I remember learning about the supplement industry that way, a good friend of ours, very successful, communicated to us that a very successful supplement company

Starting point is 00:16:06 would have maybe a 10 to 15% margin. And it blew my mind, because you're talking about a 10 million dollar company, making a million bucks. So I think about all the employees, all the infrastructure in the warehouse and the stress. And I thought, wow, that's not worth it. It's not worth it. Most online coaches would make more money themselves.

Starting point is 00:16:27 They would take home more money if they stop trying to agro fast and be scale out of proportion. I mean, I think feasibly you can get to 3 million and I think you can maintain 40 to 45% margin. I'd be hard pressed to see companies that do more than that. And I mean, maybe if the person is an influencer and there's no acquisition cost associated with it, but you have to look at the fulfillment cost, which fulfillment alone at scale is probably going to take up close to 50% of margin.

Starting point is 00:16:55 I mean, when you guys were trainers and clubs, you know, even after you paid out, like because of what people make like 40% and you're in a club, but then you pay like the admin associated with that. That's right. The building, the process, like you're getting to 50% margin just on cogs, right? Then you look at like the op-x of the business,

Starting point is 00:17:10 you're probably looking 20 to 30%. Like right, there we're already down to like 70%. Now we got a tax that 30% take home, it does call it 20%, right? And now we're down to, I mean, fucking 20% margin. I really believe this has been perpetuated by the startup culture. I agree. I mean, I've had the opportunity, Doug and I joined this Hampton group, which is a bunch of really,

Starting point is 00:17:35 really successful founders in mostly in the Silicon Valley, although they're all over the country. And I really was insecure going into it because like my peers, my group of 12 people that I work in, and Doug and I are in different groups. Like you're talking about guys that have exited $100 million companies, they're on their third or fourth they sold for just like big fish. And then I actually get an opportunity

Starting point is 00:18:02 to hear them break down their business. And it's like that culture is so geared around growth. Grow, grow, grow, spend everything you can, just acquisition, and then just prove that you can grow at a fast enough rate. And then sell before you even made any money. Like a lot of these guys can say things like, oh yeah, I built a hundred million dollar company. Well, how much did you make?

Starting point is 00:18:22 Well, I didn't really make anything. I still have a percentage of that business or what I like that. Or, you know, or I'm like, I built a hundred million dollar company. Well, how much did you make? Well, I didn't really make anything. I still have a percentage of that business, or what I thought, or, you know, or, I'm like, I don't understand. And they're like, well, that's, and then I learned like that culture and what they do. And I think I just live on leverage. Yes, all leverage.

Starting point is 00:18:35 They all live on leverage. And I think we're seeing that culture bleed into even small fitness businesses like ours. One of the biggest problems in our world, in our world in general, not just online marketers, not just on the coaches, is that people are trying to live on leverage, right? People are, and I'm a big believer

Starting point is 00:18:51 you need leverage to grow, right? So like the book, the Almanac of Naval, right? Naval, Robocon, founder of Angelist, like talks about four sorts of leverage and how you need leverage to grow. And so I think that you need to understand leverage, but I think most people are over leveraged. They've over leveraged themselves,

Starting point is 00:19:05 their resources, right there. I mean, everybody's got these mortgages, they can barely fucking afford, the car payments, they can barely afford. And it's like, my opinion is, if you can't build a company that profits, then stop worrying about leverage until you can do that. At least that.

Starting point is 00:19:17 So, yes and no. In our space, 1 million percent. That's what I'm referring to. Yeah, in our space, that's about 100 percent. Yeah, in general, I mean, companies like Google, Facebook, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no our space, 100% free. In general, I mean, companies like Google, Facebook, like, they need leverage. They need leverage.

Starting point is 00:19:29 Yeah, the cost of more and B is insane and all that. I mean, if you're not profitable, the very first client you take on, and you don't maintain profit, the rest of your career in hour space, you're fucked up. That's right. And I get people all the time, and they're like, well, where do I get the startup capital?

Starting point is 00:19:41 And I'm like, you fucking drive Uber. Like, you drive Uber, you do door dash, you fucking wait tables. You go put cash away, you invest in yourself, you learn the skills, you get really good at the skills, you deliver them for free, until you have enough people that believe in your services, and then you monetize your services.

Starting point is 00:19:55 Yeah, the other thing I want to touch on to Jason, you said earlier, and we kind of glazed over it, but this is really important thing to, I think, focus on. You said, when the market is going one way, going the other way, okay, in our market, in the fitness market, there's so many false promises, so many guarantees that now not being the one or being the one that doesn't do that makes you appear authentic. Oh, everybody else is showing these crazy before and afters. This guy over here says it's going to take me a lot longer. I think I believe him. I think that says more about the state of our industry than anything else. In the sense that we're now, because the fitness industry at large

Starting point is 00:20:35 is not a, it's not a super old industry, it really isn't. It's really only been a huge industry for maybe a few decades. We're getting to the point now where, I mean, look what happened to the Western medicine or the medical industry. COVID, the trust that people have in Western medicine declined tremendously because the way we handled the pandemic, we're, in my opinion, heading down a dark path with the fitness space where pretty soon people are going to believe anybody says in our space. It's funny that you mention that because I actually think that the COVID boom of digital fitness is what's causing the a lot of the lack of trust today like Like current day September 20th, 23 I think that listen NCI benefited tremendously We had a lot of people that were like man. I hate my fucking job. I want to be part of this like anti-government like

Starting point is 00:21:21 Anti-Western medicine movement. I want to learn the right way of doing it And then they saw this option where it's like, wow, I don't have to go to the office, I can make a lot of money online. And so people, you know, you saw two people, one person that went in was like, I really wanna learn the skill sets of being a successful coach of like,

Starting point is 00:21:36 being able to deliver a result that is not traditional Western medicine. And then you saw people that are like, I wanna get rich quick. And right now, as we sit here, the space is so inundated, it's so saturated, it's so crowded with, I'm going to effectively call them shitheads, right?

Starting point is 00:21:50 And, but it's people that just like took the leap, like they went in, they're like, I'm gonna be an online coach with the intent of making money. And, and I don't, I mean, none of us, like in this room, we've all built success in the fitness space. I'll speak for myself, but I think that you guys are on board.

Starting point is 00:22:08 I didn't start my first job as a personal trainer at Gold's Gym and Fairfax for training. Could you start your get rich? Because I thought I was gonna be a multimillion. Right, like I didn't go in. I was like, wow, this is the fucking key that's going to unlock my life. I did it because I was a former inter-exec

Starting point is 00:22:23 because health and fitness changed my life because I was passionate former inter-exec because health and fitness changed my life because I was passionate about being in that setting every day, loving what I was doing and I enjoyed working with people. And it served me all the way through, man. I built my online business slower than everybody. I built bigger than everybody. I built more sustainable than everybody.

Starting point is 00:22:42 But, you know, if you look speed wise, man, I was slow, dude. it took me 10 plus years. It's funny, you point that out because, think about that, how different it was for the four of us when we first started, like guaranteed 15 years ago or 20 years ago, if you looked at, before Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff, right? And you looked at the landscape of a gym and trainers.

Starting point is 00:23:06 None of us knew a rich trainer. I didn't know any rich. I knew buff trainers. Yeah. I knew cool, like cool, but that was like the thing was to be the buff trainer. Yeah, to be buffed as a whole. We had a huge autonomy of setting up and getting

Starting point is 00:23:19 to work in that atmosphere. There was no rich trainer. None, I didn't know one trainer driving a Lambo. I didn't know one trainer balling out with chains and watching it, none of that. That didn't exist. So nobody who entered 15, 20 years ago really had that thought in mind, where now in this internet and social media space, some of the most financially successful trainers are the ones that are showing off all these things that they have. And so you're getting a whole new wave of young kids that are

Starting point is 00:23:52 getting into the space with that in mind. And it's so not realist. So I have a lot of family like cousins, I should say, that are right around my age and well, always talking business and investments and stuff and they're all either in tech or in finance. And the joke always is like, man, if I wanted to make money, I should have gotten to one of your guys' spaces because I could be mid-range finance and make more money than I am.

Starting point is 00:24:19 You know, running the top, one of the top fitness podcasts on businesses in the world. Getting into fitness to make money, in my opinion, is a losing strategy. Not because you can't make money, you can, but because if you don't have the passion, if you wouldn't do this for free, you're not gonna survive. That's 100%.

Starting point is 00:24:36 By the way, that's the history of the fitness space. I use this example a lot of time. I remember when this first happened. I remember when there was a fitness fan tries that took the gym industry by storm in the late 90s, early 2000s, curves, exploded. I remember walking into a curve to try and figure out what was going on, meeting the owner,

Starting point is 00:24:54 realizing they had no fitness background, they had no business being a fitness, they said they did it because they saw it was a top franchise, and then I knew this is gonna collapse, and sure enough. But just so you know, you just, that hasn't changed, it's still today. That was my experience at Orange Theory. as they thought was the top franchise and then I knew this is gonna collapse and sure enough. But just so you know, you just, that hasn't changed, it's still today.

Starting point is 00:25:07 That was my experience at Orange Theory. I was meeting all these people that were opening as Jim, none of them had a fitness background. They were all smart investor people who have been successful in other avenues. They saw the growth of the franchise. Oh, I'll buy one, I'll be one. And it's like with no real knowledge of the franchise.

Starting point is 00:25:24 I won't say which one, but there's a pretty well knownknown bootcamp franchise that when they started, they bootstrapped with like former trainers, former, and they were like, hey, this is how you should brand your bootcamp. They fucking blew up. All of a sudden, they were like, we should turn this to a bizzah. We should go to successful people like you just said. And that began the demise of that company.

Starting point is 00:25:44 You know, it's funny though, because I think back to the first time I made, quote unquote, a lot of money being a personal trainer. I was living in LA, dude, I was hustling. My day was, I was in the facility at 5.30. My first client was six. I do like 30 minutes of admin work. I went six to noon, straight clients, little lunch, went downtown LA, got my own workout in, came back.

Starting point is 00:26:07 I did like admin work till like 430, trained more clients till 730, wrapped up admin work till 830, got home, took a nap, woke up, did like more paperwork from like 1230 to 130, went back to bed, did it all again, right? So I had the job where I was like, I was the GM of the gym and I was the, you know, did the most floor hours of anybody in the space. And so when I saw the marketing messages of the gurus back then, it was, hey, you're really good at what you do. You help a lot of people, but you're running out of hours

Starting point is 00:26:38 to make more money. Like, here's how I can help you make more money. That was the marketing message of the gurus back in the day, right? That was the mastermind message. If you go to the mastermind message today, it's like, hey, if fitness is super lucrative, make lots of fucking money,

Starting point is 00:26:51 like, here's how you can become a highly paid trainer. And it's like, that's very different. Yeah, that's extremely different because the first message assumed that you had passion for what you did, it assumed that you were good at what you did. And I think that the barrier to getting in now is so fucking low, were good at what you did. And I think that the barrier to getting in now is so fucking low. Being good at what you do is almost an afterthought. And I've

Starting point is 00:27:11 heard, and I don't know this to be true, but I know it to be pretty close to true. I've heard there are certain like business coaches out there that in their program are telling people don't go get certified. Don't go through an education. Just use this set of guidelines and give them to your clients. You don't need to actually be good at what you do. Here's how you, and I swear to God, dude, and I think it lives in some of those programs and I'm like, you know what, like, that's fucked

Starting point is 00:27:37 because I think back to when I was in a rexick. And fortunately, the first person that helped me, I didn't have to pay. I'm not sure I had the money to pay them, but they helped me because they wanted to help me. And if that's the first thing, they saved my fucking life. And I've always said, and I say in every speech, I said, the whole reason we started NCI is so that there's not another 18-year-old Jason contemplating suicide because he doesn't know what to eat. And that was almost the result.

Starting point is 00:28:02 Almost killed myself because of the eating disorder. And I can't imagine empowering a trainer to make money off the back of those kinds of situations. Like it just doesn't make sense. This is the experience. This is what happened at 24-of-itness. We started in the company that really built the model and had to become successful. I'll never forget the turning point. in the company that really built the model

Starting point is 00:28:26 and had to become successful. I'll never forget the turning point. I was in a meeting with other general managers and up and coming district managers and they had just had new investors come in. And I'll never forget the presentation they made. And they said, look, because at the time we had sales counselors and trainers and fitness managers

Starting point is 00:28:42 and we were learning how to sell memberships through selling fitness and, you know, the company was built and founded by fitness people who also understood business, but they were fitness people first. And we'll never forget them. The presentation, the guy goes up there and says, we have more locations than anybody. We don't need sales people to present anything. You don't need to do it. All you got to do is have the best prices.

Starting point is 00:29:04 It's like a menu, you walk in, you order the membership you want and you leave. And I remember going, this is the end. This is the beginning. And I remember my district manager who was a fitness guy, looked at me and he said, looked at me and he said, hey, Sal, what do you think about that? And I said, that's terrible.

Starting point is 00:29:18 That's not how you sell fitness. That's not how this works. They didn't believe me. That's the direction they started going. And you know, it turned into a few bankrupt seasons. Yeah. And a lot of negative changes. This annoys me, Jason, because our space has all the answers for all of the chronic health issues that people suffer from and monitor. All of them. Yeah. Depression, anxiety, obesity, cancer, diabetes, dementia, no space has more

Starting point is 00:29:48 or better answers than we do. And yet we got people going in there right now, ruining it to the point where pretty soon people aren't going to turn to us anymore. And that really annoys the shit out of me. You know, it's so funny that you say that too, because as as I think about the space, like the wealthiest coaches I know are not the best coaches. And I won't say the best because they're very good. I'll say the smartest, most intelligent. I've been really fortunate recently, so we have a live event coming up in October. You know, we have like Bill Campbell, William Wallace, Lane Norton, Rachel Sheerley, they're all coming out to speak like fucking really good minds in our industry. And I've been fortunate to talk to a couple of them on calls. And

Starting point is 00:30:29 just the first thing they go to is business. And they're like, I'm so smart and I'm so good at what I do, I just haven't figured out how to crack the code on the business thing. And that's interesting to me because I'm like, what do you think you're missing? Because they'll share their numbers with me and stuff. I'm like, what do you think you're missing? Because I, you know, they'll share their numbers with me and stuff. I'm like, what do you think you're missing? And they're like telling me, and I'm like, you realize a lot of those numbers being talked about are like big top line numbers. And your take home is pretty much just as much as theirs. And they're like, they really feel like they're like missing out on this thing. And I'm like, just continue to stay true to being really fucking good. But, you know, there's this, there's this dissonance between like being extremely good at what you do

Starting point is 00:31:08 and chasing the dollar. And the happiest coaches I know are the ones that are very fucking good at what they do. The ones that stay in the space for a long time are the ones that are very good at what they do. The ones that have zero issues when something like COVID rolls around are the ones that are actually good at what they do.

Starting point is 00:31:26 Like, imagine, you know, if, I don't know, a COVID of the fucking online world happens, right? We're like, oh, all of a sudden, we can't use the internet. Yeah. Our half of the coaches that are online right now still going to be helping people. No. And that's scary. Like, who are we putting on into the world? We're not even putting people, we're not putting people into the world that want to create change. They just want to

Starting point is 00:31:48 monetize other people's needs to change. And that's kind of scary to me. Do you, do you as, as a leader in the space, do you, I already think I already know the answer, but do you feel responsibility to trying to keep the space moving in the right direction or to try to counter some of that crap that's out there. Yeah, I do. I mean, you know, I've been really transparent with you and I'll be very open on the podcast. You know, we've been very blessed. Obviously, we've built a big business, but more importantly, we've helped a lot of people. And you know, at our highest revenue months, you know, obviously, we're an eight an eight figure company, I would say 60% of that was indexed on people coming to us for business solutions, where 40% was indexed

Starting point is 00:32:31 on people coming for nutrition solutions. And as I've watched things evolve, you know, last year, year and a half, I see the business side being perpetuated more. And I see more and more people with questions around that and not even understanding that the core foundation is being very good at what you do. And these are people that have taken other certifications that still feel lost. These are people that have taken no certification at all and still feel lost. But all they're thinking about is the money they'll make in the industry. And so, yeah, I mean, I think as a leader and as a company that I think is

Starting point is 00:33:02 poised to become the leader in the space and ultimately that's our goal, right? We've openly stated we want to impact the lives of a billion people through the vehicle of health and fitness. We have to do that. If we want a billion lives being touched, we want a billion lives being touched successfully, not because somebody had the marketing capacity to do so. Now, I'm also the opinion, if you have a really, really good skill set, you 100% should know how to get yourself visible.

Starting point is 00:33:27 You should know how to market you and you deserve to be compensated for what you've invested into growing that skill set. I make no bones about that. I believe coaches should be amongst the highest paid industries in the world. But I think first you got to really fucking be good at what you do. Well, with that ratio, it looks like in an ideal world for you personally, like percentage of people that are going through NCI versus BCI. So if we're looking at unit sold, probably 70, 30. If we're looking at revenue, we're probably looking at, because obviously the business products are more expensive.

Starting point is 00:34:02 Of course. If we're looking at unit sold, 70% nutrition, 30% business, but I think revenue that's probably going to trend back down towards like 55. Yeah, that's understand. So how do you feel about this? Because this is we talk about this, especially early on, we talked about this a lot. Now I think not so much because we know this is what we're doing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:19 I think the best strategy to lead this space, and again, I'd love your opinion on this, is to do it the right way and to show everyone else that not only can I do it the right way, but I can make money doing it the right way. Because otherwise, you're not going to win that battle. Because we got to fight fire with fire. So we got to be able to use the same tricks they use, but do it with integrity, do it effectively, and do it the right way. So that way, people can go into the space who are passionate and they don't feel like

Starting point is 00:34:45 they have a choice of being poor or lying. Yep. The options are not that. The options are actually, I can do this the right way and do well. Yeah, you know, I was talking to Alex yesterday and he was saying, you know, when I was in the space, I always met people where they were.

Starting point is 00:34:58 And I was like, what do you mean by that? He said, true or false, somebody in their local area is going to promote a detox, a fat flush, some bullshit like that. So true, absolutely. He said, okay, true or false, that's what the consumer thinks they want. True.

Starting point is 00:35:14 He said, so if I show up and I say macros and patients, who are they gonna choose? It's them. He said, so how do I get them to choose me first? He said, I gotta meet them where they are. They want the detox, they want the fat flush, they want to say, okay, cool. He's like, hey, come here.

Starting point is 00:35:31 We're gonna talk about a detox. Then they come in and it's like, listen, the detox that we're talking about is the shit that you've already tried. It's not part of this program, right? Like, sure, for three days, we'll detox you, but then you're gonna do macros, you're gonna do patients,

Starting point is 00:35:43 you're gonna learn accountability, blah, blah. And he said, so, but you still have to get their attention. You still have to meet them where they're at. And I always thought that was a really good lesson. You know, I think coaches right now, it's okay to talk about the financial upside of being a coach and making good money. But the first conversation has to be, what is your skill, so? Or can you deliver the promises? I ask every coach this whenever I talk business. He said, the first thing is, if I sent 10 clients your way, on a scale of one to 10, what's

Starting point is 00:36:12 your confidence level that you could help all 10 clients deliver the result? And the number of times that I don't get 10 is really scary. An event you guys came to, I think it was two, three years ago. We called it Impact Income, and here's one. There's like 300 people in the room. I asked all 300 people, I said, how many of you guys can raise your hand and tell me how you create the results that you do? Meaning like you actually have a process, it's not just this like reactionary bullshit. How many of you think you raise your hand? Yeah, probably very little. Three. Three out of almost 300. And if I had to bring them on stage and off from 10 grand

Starting point is 00:36:48 Probably not going to do it right it's probably zero and so What does that tell us like it tells me as the owner of a company that I'm more excited about people getting the right Education and people learning the right application of what they know because when what they do, the upside for them is just astronomical. Here's the irony of what we're talking about. Okay, this is the big, for me, I try to communicate this a lot because I know that there's a false choice that the consumer thinks that they're making. The consumer thinks, if I do it this way, the wrong way,

Starting point is 00:37:24 I'm gonna get results faster. If I do it the quote unquote the wrong way, I'm gonna get results faster. If I do it the quote unquote, right way, it's gonna take me so long, or maybe it'll never happen, and that's the hard way. The reality is there's this way, which will get you there and keep you there, and then there's nothing else. There is no faster, also effective way.

Starting point is 00:37:41 It's literally, there is only one way to make this happen for reals, everybody, and it's this. Everything else is a lie. So that's the real choice. And I, we need to communicate that better because otherwise what will happen is I'm going to be competing with advertisers who are saying things that aren't true and the consumer thinks their choices are fast or slow. That's what they think. When in reality it's yes or no.

Starting point is 00:38:08 There is no other way. Yeah, like that sound bite should be pulled and played everywhere. Like the consumer thinks it's faster slow when in reality it's yes or no. Like that's it, right there. Like mic drop the end. You know what I mean, think about my pump. I mean, you guys have been to this for what? 10 years now?

Starting point is 00:38:23 Nine years old? Nine years? Right. Think about on day one if somebody's mean, you guys have been to this for what? 10 years now? Nine years old? Nine years, yeah. Think about on day one, if somebody's like, you could buy the number of downloads that you have. Yeah. It would have been appealing. Like, let's be honest. You're like, you'll snap our fingers.

Starting point is 00:38:34 You're making whatever you're making. You get the number of things. You're like, yo, I'm in, right? Because they're all intelligent enough to know, like if I buy that, like, there's no way in hell. A, that it's legit, be that we're keeping it, right? Right. Right. And so instead, like, you would 100% trade it for the journey you've been on. Because you know now, definitively, not only do you have what you've produced,

Starting point is 00:38:53 but you have potential in so many other different verticals. Right. Like, you think of it all the other doors it's open for you because of the journey, because you've done it the right way. And this is why lottery winners pro athletes go broke because they get this windfall of money or success overnight and they didn't build the habits and behaviors and what it takes the normal person to achieve that level of success.

Starting point is 00:39:17 So let me ask you this then, how do you think it's going to trickle back down, right? Because if what's being promoted now is success as a coach is highly monetizable, what about the trainers in the Golds gyms, in the EOS, in the Lifetimes, right? Are they good anymore? And at what point does that now penetrate the public marketplace, where the public marketplace

Starting point is 00:39:42 actually knows? And I think that this is a whole nother conversation. So according how are we queuing the space? Right, like I think now the space is bigger than ever. There's more people working in health and fitness than ever, which means, hey, there's more competition, but B, there's less people that are really good at what they do.

Starting point is 00:39:58 How are we quality? It's an opportunity. It's a massive opportunity. It's because if you look at it, here's what's happened. Okay. Over the last just two decades, the health and fitness space has grown year over year over year. More people are buying health and fitness products, having gym memberships, gyms are growing,

Starting point is 00:40:15 all that stuff is growing year over year over year. But what has also happened over the last two decades? Health has gotten worse consistently, year over year over year. So you could either look at this and it's this kind of dystopian oh crap, we're going the wrong direction, everything's going to crap. Or, if you're, here's the beauty of, and I hate saying this at loud, but it's true, when we started this business, we were confident that we would do well because we're competing with idiots.

Starting point is 00:40:45 This is true. No, it's true. We're competing with idiots. You want to separate yourself and the health and fitness base? Be honest, do a good job. There's a lot of spaces where that doesn't really separate you. You get into tech and you kind of do a good job, deliver a good product, like good luck.

Starting point is 00:41:00 You're competing to get some brilliant people. There's a lot of morons in our space. And it's an opportunity. So for people listening to want to be coaches and trainers, the opportunity is huge because you're competing against a lot of liars and a lot of idiots. And that's great. Now for the consumer, it sucks.

Starting point is 00:41:16 But hopefully we can educate the consumer so they can make that the right decision. I think part of the reason why we're seeing that is because the people that are seeing the most are the ones that not necessarily are doing it the right way. And so you're just getting a whole cohort of people that, oh, this, he's got these things or he's famous on Instagram. Therefore, he's the one doing it right. And so you've all sudden shifted this huge majority of people in a direction.

Starting point is 00:41:42 And I do think, I think we're're gonna see a fallout, right? I do think that like even Instagram hasn't been that popular for that long. And you're gonna see a lot of turnover of these people that were flashing a pan. They made a lot of money for a short period of time, but they don't have the real staying power. And so I think you're gonna start to see that turnover and people are gonna, hopefully, this is the optimistic side of me, kind of wake up a little bit,

Starting point is 00:42:09 you know, and you're going to want to see either one, like the proof that, oh, this guy has gone and done it in real life for a long time. Oh, they've been around for 20, 30 years doing this because a lot of people are going to come and go in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the guy like a sore thumb. I mean, the ones that had true stain power through all this, like in the gym,

Starting point is 00:42:29 they're gonna recognize those quality trainers and it's just one of those things. It's like, it's been right in front of everybody the whole time. It's just been convoluted with all this like, excessive information overload. And so how do we filter through all this stuff? And I think it's gonna peel itself back to reveal.

Starting point is 00:42:50 This has been the way the whole time. Yeah, I mean, it's such a dichotomy. And I could go, I mean, there's so many different rabbit holes we could go into, but I think a lot of people get into health of fitness in the very beginning with a small level of insecurity. I know I did. I know we've talked about it on the podcasts. I've been on, right?

Starting point is 00:43:05 And so, you know, that's the polar opposite of what it requires to stay true to being good, right? Because it takes a very secure individual to, you know, put their flag in the ground and say, this is what I'm doing. You know, it's, I look at Lane Norton, man, and I have such a massive amount of respect for what he's done.

Starting point is 00:43:24 Because when he first came to the space, like the the bro science guys, I mean, they fucking blasted him. And you know, and and Lane has always stayed true, listened science to science. And now I would argue he's one of the most respected people. And I would say so many ideas are they fall in line with a lot of what he brought to the space. And so I have such massive amount of respect for him. You know, look at the fitness space and, the fitness space and people blasted CrossFit

Starting point is 00:43:46 since it came in. They have never wavered from what they believe to be the truth. Now, we could argue all day long, true or not true. And I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. But I think that the security, I won't say great glassman secure, but the whole front end of CrossFit, they were very secure and what they did, and they're like, this is what we do.

Starting point is 00:44:07 And so, when you have a subset of people that come in back to the previous insecurity, and you're asking them to instantly overnight become very secure, and what they're putting out, I think that's where a lot of it comes from. Yeah. You know, it's very hard, because they're going to question themselves. They, because they're going to be questioned at every turn, you know, they're going to question themselves. Because they're going to be questioned at every turn. You know, they're going to say, like, oh, well, you know, lane and science tells us carbs aren't the enemy.

Starting point is 00:44:30 And then all of a sudden the keto zealots, you know, get up and their facial carbs aren't even a essential nutrient and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, they'll yell louder. And now the insecure person becomes more insecure. And it's like, fuck, like, how do we win that battle? And I think the only way to win the battle is to continue to put out the right education, to encourage people to receive the right education. But most importantly, and I mean, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:52 this is me planning my flag of the ground with NCI is to get people to engage in application. Man, I think that like you guys could stay on mount tops and say maps is the best thing in the world. The people that have done maps, they know the power in it. When we can facilitate application of the right shit, I think that's when we're moving forward in the world. It's like, we know this to be true.

Starting point is 00:45:12 How do we get users to actually engage in it? And I think that's the real key, and that's what we have to face. Yeah, I think one of the first places to start is to, because you can look at the social media space, or the online space, and you look at the social media space or the online space, and you look at the people with the most followers, which you would think, okay, these are the most successful people. What are they doing?

Starting point is 00:45:32 And many times what they're doing is they're using their bodies as social evidence or proof of their, like how good they are. So look how fit I look, look how ripped I am, look how beautiful I look. This is a huge mistake for somebody who wants to become a successful coach. First off, you have to be the 0.001% to really use your body in an effective way to get that kind of very, so it's probably not going to happen. But number two, you're digging yourself a hole.

Starting point is 00:45:58 You're going to always have to look that way if that's because, if that's your evidence. And number three, if you have any kind of integrity, what you're doing is you're promoting the falseness or the myth that the way you look is, is going to communicate your knowledge and effectiveness. Now, of course, you don't want to look like you don't do any fitness, don't work at all. There's extremes there. But the consumer, it's very easy way to convince a consumer.

Starting point is 00:46:25 But I always caution people to use that strategy. Don't use that strategy. You're going to have to maintain it. If it does work, the odds that it'll work are very small. But if it does, you've got to maintain that. And number two, you're doing the industry a huge of service. I mean, the more you do that, the more jeopardy you're putting the longevity of your business in.

Starting point is 00:46:42 I mean, that's just going to cause a key man problem, right? In and of itself. But that's, yeah, I mean, I love what you said in the sense that you're putting the longevity of your business in. I mean, that's just gonna cause a key man problem, right, in and of itself. But that's, yeah, I mean, I love what you said in the sense that you're perpetuating a such a false narrative. And, you know, the reality is, how you look is one factor of your life. And as somebody with, you know, openly has body image issues

Starting point is 00:46:59 to this day, still have it, right, 39 years old, to allow that to drive the other areas of your life is so misleading at best. And so if I went out and I mean, like I, you know, we were talking before this, you know, I've been, I've done all my HRT work with Transcend, you know, my diet's in a good place, my training's in a good place,

Starting point is 00:47:17 like I walk around sub eight percent body fat as it is right now. And if I like constantly posted pictures, could I probably go back to selling Nutrition Coaching? The sad reality is, yeah, I probably could. But I don't want people to be like, well, I want to be like Jason and look like that. No, like that is one component of my life.

Starting point is 00:47:34 What makes me the happiest in the world right now is dude, I spend more time with my daughter now than I have in the five years that she's been on this planet. So like, if I put that on the world, is that gonna sell any kind of coaching? Probably not. But that's what life is to me.

Starting point is 00:47:47 You know, like, I'm out here. I'm with you guys. Like, I'm hosting clients in Arizona this week. I spend time with my daughter as much as I possibly can. I play lots of golf. Like, those are the things I care about. And so, which at the end of the day, you know, if I died next week,

Starting point is 00:48:00 like people are like, were you happy? Yeah, like I was. And so, you wanna know what's funny, Jason, managing gyms? This is true, 100%. When you would have, let's say, you manage a big gym, you got 15 trainers, okay? And there's varying degrees of fitness among your trainers. The most ripped fit-looking trainers were never the most

Starting point is 00:48:17 successful. Never. They never, now I'm not saying fit too much into themselves if you're ripped and getting their clients ripped. Or they were struggling with such severe body images, and just more for you, huh? That they were tanking themselves. They didn't have the energy to do it.

Starting point is 00:48:30 Dude, when I was in LA, I had a random gym at Beverly Hills, and West Hollywood is right there, and I had a decent population from there. And so I had a chiropractor, he was a celebrity chiropractor, and he was a gay guy. And he comes in and he said, dude, he said, you need to not be so jacked at rent. And I was like, fly. I'm like, I'm like, this is like, it's a personal thing. I enjoy it. He's like, yeah, he's like, but you're like unattainable. He's like, people look at you and they're like,

Starting point is 00:48:59 I could never look like that without steroids. And I was like, well, I'm not on steroids. I was like, but I was like, this is for me. And he's like, yeah, he's like, I know that is your client. I'm like, cool. Then like if it takes me longer to grow clients that like, I'm authentically connected to, I'm okay with that. And so I made the choice to be happy myself.

Starting point is 00:49:18 I didn't do it for anyone else. And like, was there like a vanity component? Yeah, but it was vanity for me. It wasn't vanity for social media. It wasn't vanity for social media. It wasn't vanity for other people. And so I think this comes down to a whole thing. It's okay to chase vanity. I have zero issues with people chasing vanity.

Starting point is 00:49:32 But make sure that the person that you were trying to please is the person in the mirror. Yeah, you're not vanity for the sake of someone else being like, oh, look at his abs or look at her ass or whatever. Like, you're more than welcome to chase those things. We should all be encouraged to do that, right? Like in life, we are given one opportunity to have the things we desire.

Starting point is 00:49:48 If that's what you desire, like more power to you, don't make it a fucking sales tool. But you also, I mean, you also, look, you have two trainers, one obsessed with their body and one obsessed with their clients, who's gonna be more successful. Yeah, that's all day, you're gonna see that. I have a selfish question to ask you.

Starting point is 00:50:04 I think you're probably one of the most connected people in the fitness space. I don't know anybody else who has probably had the opportunity to do deep dives on people's businesses and connect network, collaborate with a lot of very successful and not so successful people in our space. You openly talk about you have drive to be financially successful with a lot of very successful and not so successful people in our space. You openly talk about you have drive to be financially successful

Starting point is 00:50:29 and you also have a lot of integrity. So when you look at the entire landscape and all the people you've met, what are three businesses that you admire the most and why? Are we talking businesses that people know or just clients that I've talked to? No, not even just clients or businesses that you know. Like you've literally, we've already rattled off in this conversation probably 10, 15 other people like the Hormoses and people like that that have successful businesses.

Starting point is 00:50:56 Which businesses do you look at? And the reason why I'm asking this is one of the things that we're bitching about right now is that there's so many terrible people that are being highlighted in all these trainers. And I know we have a lot of trainers. That's how I think we're, you know, bitching about right now is that there's so many terrible people that are being highlighted in all these trainers. And I know we have a lot of trainers listening right now. That's a good one. Let's highlight some people who not only are like,

Starting point is 00:51:12 you know, have integrity, but also are probably really successful business-wise. And maybe you don't know it because maybe they're not the five million followers on Instagram with that. So when you look at the landscape and you go like, I really like these three businesses and why. So let's name a couple of them. Oh man.

Starting point is 00:51:31 I mean, if I choose any of my clients, they're all gonna bitch that like I didn't choose them. Right. So it's like this is double and sword for me. I think there's so many that come to mind. I have, like let me just first say, I think anybody that gets into business with the intent of helping people have respect.

Starting point is 00:51:48 I don't care how good you are, how bad you are. I think if I disagree with your tactics, I still have respect for you. I still think as long as your pure intent is genuinely to help people, we can disagree on the methods all day long. You have my respect. So I'll openly say that. Well, not to cut you off, but just so you don't feel like you get pigeonholed into like highlighting one of somebody that you've coached and trained. Maybe stick with the

Starting point is 00:52:10 people that you've had speak at your events. Yeah. I mean, they're already, they're not necessarily people that you've coached and trained. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. But, you know, there's a lot of these, and I'm sure there's some of them you know, they're busy and you're like, oh, he's made a lot of money, but I wouldn't want to have to do that. Or it's not my thing. So. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:28 I think, you know, first and foremost, I'm going to shout out for my clients that have just unacceptably well in like the last year and like, I'll just go to lump them into that growing one because they just made a commitment to themselves. They were going to see it through. They were going to do it on a big level and most people probably haven't heard of any of them. You know, one would be Stephanie Fussnick. She's just married. So that's not her last name anymore, but I forget it. She just interviewed me yesterday. Yeah, that right. Yeah. Okay. So like, bro, she literally went from like

Starting point is 00:52:55 $70,000 a year to over a million dollars a year. I didn't even know this. Yeah. Wow. You wouldn't know. Wow. So hands down one of the nicest human beings in the world. Casey Miller, who, maybe you have to store it now, but Casey started with us. She was sleeping on an air mattress. She went all in herself, half a million plus a year. Amazing. Jared Hamilton, who came to me as an influencer, already had it, he had all the assets. He just didn't know how to do it, but he humbled himself in a way to get the right thing. And so much respect to him. And then Mason Mahoney and Audrey Adams, who have just continuously leveled up and they did so much of what we've talked about today.

Starting point is 00:53:35 They hit such a financial success point where they were like, you know, we want to choose the happiness point. We always want to do it the right way. And they've always been like, they've kept out at the forefront. So those four for sure, I think Jen Galeep, who a lot of people may not know, she spoke last year, coaching, she's on the first day. Wasn't that, is that, she's the Peele?

Starting point is 00:53:54 Los Houses X. Jen, Galeep, that we said. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. I know that is a Jen, but that's not her. Okay, sure. That's Doc Jen, Jen Esquire maybe? Yeah, okay, so it's close. Yeah, yeah. No, so Jen. That's Doc Jen. Jen, SQR maybe? Yeah, okay, so it was close.

Starting point is 00:54:05 Yeah, yeah. No, so Jen Galeeb, I think she actually just had opposed recently. She did like some fitness stuff and she was like on VH1 and she's like, I was miserable at the time. And like she just, she loves PR, she loves branding, she loves all that stuff. Her and Chris Winfield, her husband,

Starting point is 00:54:18 they own a PR agency and they are just the nicest people I've ever met in my life. She has, she's gone on to do just huge things. And she told me like when we first started talking, she's like, I'm gonna do this public speaking thing. Like I'm gonna get on lots of stages. And I've watched her from not a lot of people knew who she was, dude, she's on massive stages now.

Starting point is 00:54:38 And so like just respect for being like, this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna do it the right way. I think she's amazing. You know, Billie Jean is just a good friend. I love the guy. He is as I'm going to do. And I'm going to do it the right way. I think she's amazing. Billie Jean is just a good friend. I love the guy. He is as fucking true as they come. And if you ever go spend time with him, he will reiterate that and he will show you that.

Starting point is 00:54:54 And so I have a lot of respect there. One guy that I'm excited to continue to get to know who's speaking at this year's coaching con. So this is the first public announcement. Nobody knows this yet. So spoiler alert. But Sean Stevenson is coming. So model health show. Big fan of Sean, because he's just like, he literally started, I was like, the sleep guy and he's just evolved

Starting point is 00:55:12 that into like into that. And so, you know, he every time I spoke to him about coming to the event, it's always come back to the impact of the event. It was never about the money. It was never about the travel. It was like, he always talked about the impact of the event like what were we doing and I have just a ton of respect for that. You know, everybody else is like huge names and so I think everybody would give them respect. But I think those are some names that a lot of people may not realize like the impact that those people are having in the world. How, what are some of the key things someone could focus on to build a successful business in health and fitness, but to do it the right way?

Starting point is 00:55:49 What are some things they should lack out for? We mentioned earlier, don't just use your body as a market, but what are some things they could look out for and what are things they should focus on? I think a lot of people need to recognize that your insecurities are going to be challenged repeatedly over the course of your business career from the very first time that you begin learning something, it's going to challenge what you thought to be true. To the very first time that you have to apply it, it's going to challenge your own thought process around whether or not you think you can help somebody. To the very first time that you asked somebody for money, it's going to challenge your beliefs around money. To the time that you have to hire somebody, it's going to challenge your beliefs around money to the time that you have to hire somebody. It's going to challenge your beliefs around leadership.

Starting point is 00:56:27 And I think that if you're not prepared for that, then you're not prepared to be a business owner. And that's also okay. I think that there is this stigma that to be a coach, to be a trainer, that you have to be a CEO, and that you have to be a business owner. I wear the CEO hat today out of necessity. I don't love the CEO hat. I'm just being honest.

Starting point is 00:56:46 I love being a visionary and I love, I actually love the client connection. I don't like fucking spreadsheets and paperwork and I hate that shit. So, you know, mine happened more on necessity because I wanted something of extreme impact and I was willing to lean into that. But I think if, you know, it all comes back

Starting point is 00:57:06 to the same front door, so to speak, which is, you know, to get into the industry, you have to be willing to get the skill set. You have to be willing to become very good at what you do. And none of the people that you've brought on this podcast, you know, you guys have done 2,000 plus episodes at this point, right? None of the people that you guys have brought in here,

Starting point is 00:57:23 you brought in, because you're like, wow, like you're blowing up on social media. in here, you brought in, because you're like, wow, you're blowing up on social media. No. You brought them in, because you're like, you're actually good at something, right? And look at that, like look at the doors, I think back to like how I actually got in here like the first time, someone asked me the other day,

Starting point is 00:57:36 like how'd you get a mind-pong? And I said, well, Jay Faruja connected us. And I don't even know if you guys remember that, but Jay's a Faruja. I didn't remember that it was Jay. I was actually when you said that, I was like, who would first introduce to us? It was Jay. Yeah. And so then I was like even know if you guys remember that but Jason remember that it was J. I was actually when you said that I was like who would first introduce us. It was Jay Yeah, and so then I was like how do you how to get on J's and somebody had connected me to J

Starting point is 00:57:51 and I thought That like that time I went to Jason's and you know I spent time with him at his place in Santa Monica at the time had I not actually been good at what I did and had I not Been able to showcase up to him I would have never been here had I not come here the first time when I reached out to you a year later and said Hey, I want to advertise you would have never let me do and It all started with the same place and so I think a lot of people are just looking at like the wrong part of the career And it and quite honestly they shouldn't even be thinking about the quote unquote career It's like you you gotta get the skills.

Starting point is 00:58:26 Here's just highlighted what we were just talking about as the trainer journey too, like so focused on the destination and trying to get to mind pump. I'll pay $20,000 beyond it, but there's nothing for you if you didn't work the journey, prove yourself. Think about the overweight person. Think about ozempic. Like, and it's all the shit that's coming out.

Starting point is 00:58:46 Like, you're gonna fuck it take a pill. You're gonna lose the weight. Are you gonna keep it off? No. Like, you can't skip the journey. Jess, Jason, I was just gonna say, literally, that people in fitness, if you become a trainer of a coach, you probably love fitness, right?

Starting point is 00:59:02 At least you should. If you don't, probably don't do this, but you probably love it and you've At least you should, if you don't, probably don't do this, but you probably love it and you've been doing it for a while. Here's the cheat sheet or should I say advantage? The advantage is the lessons that you learned on that journey are exactly the same lessons that you're gonna encounter in business.

Starting point is 00:59:19 Okay, so can you go from, I can barely do a body weight squat to squatting through interpounds overnight? No, how does it work? You go practice, you suck at it, you try, oops gotta do mobility, gotta try this other stuff. Oh, here's a weak link here, gotta maybe do this other exercise, move away from squats,

Starting point is 00:59:34 try something else, go back to it. And eventually you get to this point where you hit the skull, but now you love it so much, you're always gonna do it anyway no matter what. Okay, it's the same thing, it's the same thing with what you're doing here. You just said, you don't think to yourself like I'm a CEO or yeah, because that's okay, you're gonna learn.

Starting point is 00:59:50 You're gonna suck, you're gonna learn. You're gonna suck, you're gonna learn. It's no different than the journey that you've been on with working out with fitness. So the reason why I communicate that is when you get into the space to build your business and you run into the struggles, remind yourself, remind yourself,

Starting point is 01:00:06 that it's just like when you first start working out, it's just like your clients going through this process. It's gonna be the same exact thing. So when you're frustrated, just like you got frustrated, the first time you couldn't do a barbell squat, well now you can, how can you now? Well, you've been practicing. That's all it is, literally, that's all it is.

Starting point is 01:00:23 I would add to that too, when you first got into it, you asked for help, right? You, there was resources out there. And there were, you sifted through the resources to find the ones that you trusted, the ones that had proven themselves to be worthy. By the way, when you become a coach, there's still resources for you.

Starting point is 01:00:40 I think that, you know, one of my favorite things, I will humble myself to this day. I don't give a shit how many people I've coached. I don that, you know, one of my favorite things, I will humble myself to this day. I'm gonna give a shit. How many people I've coached? I don't give a shit. How many businesses I've helped? If I don't know the answer, I'm going to a resource that can help me find the answer. You know, when I did my first UFC weight cut, I was petrified of rehydrating the guy. I knew the guaranteed I get the weight off. I was like, probably going to change the game the way that I do it compared to them. I'm like guaranteed I'd get the weight off. I was like probably gonna change the game the way that I'd do it compared to them. I'm like, I don't know shit about rehydration.

Starting point is 01:01:09 And I called my buddy, Tyler Mitten, and he did hubbibs, like the first time hubbib came back, he worked at DC, and I said, bro, can you just do the rehydration and teach me? And he was like, yeah, zero questions asked, didn't give a shit, he's like, we don't have to tell anybody, and I'm like, dude, I'll tell the world.

Starting point is 01:01:25 Like, I'm humble enough to ask for help. And I think that a lot of people that are afraid to get in because they don't yet have the knowledge need to remember that. You know, too, you know, not to talk NCI, but the reason that we built NCI the other way we did was, you know, once you're certified, you have access to our community for life.

Starting point is 01:01:43 Because I know one day you're gonna encounter a challenge that you don't know the answer to. That for whatever reason, level one didn't equip you for, or that whatever reason, level two didn't equip you for. Like, we've been as thorough as we possibly can, but at some point you're going to encounter a situation that's just different. Cray. Ask.

Starting point is 01:02:01 Like, let me help. Let one of our instructors help. Let another community member help. And I think that like when you have those things and you remember and you're willing to lean into them. It makes the journey a little bit easier. I nobody had to go through this. I'll use an example. Kind of what we're talking about I remember when i really made the realization that the gym industry was, wasn't as great as I thought it was. I remember in a meeting specifically, they showed us the members that make the gym money

Starting point is 01:02:32 and the ones that cost the gym money. Okay, and it was, I remember, I was heartbroken because the members that lost the gym money were the heavy users. And I don't mean heavy as in body weight. Consistent, frequent users. These are people that come in five days a week, consistently work out all the time.

Starting point is 01:02:48 They pay their monthly membership. They lose us money because they wear down the equipment. They don't buy anything else and that's it. Plenty of Hollywood's mall, or a plan to fit this mall. Yeah, that's right. Who are the people that made the gym money? The most money? That never came.

Starting point is 01:03:00 The ones that paid and never came. And I said, whoa, this is crazy. Like this, this is crazy. This doesn't feel right in my bones. Why am I saying that right now? Because the coaching space is getting flooded with people and it's becoming a race to the bottom who could charge a lease and do the most, who can create the most volume, produce the most, the best top line, but really produce the worst results.

Starting point is 01:03:26 Yeah. You can do it differently and be very successful. You know, it's, you guys have proven that by the way. It's fun guys have shown that though. We, we just started looking so, very important metric that we track in the business is the use rate of our products. We will 85% that have purchased the product actively engaged

Starting point is 01:03:44 in using the product at any given time. We'd love 100, but we know 85% that have purchased the product actively engaged in using the product at any given time. We'd love 100, but we know 85% feasible. Of the people that don't use it, right? Where do you think they fall off? Oh God. So there's 14 weeks, right, in a cohort model. First seven days. Bingo. They don't even start.

Starting point is 01:04:02 Yeah, that's it. These people are willing to put money down and then they don't start. So, like, that's actually something that we're tackling right now, which is like, how do we, and we've gone in, and I think we've done it, we've done some new onboarding things, but ironically for coaches out there,

Starting point is 01:04:18 you know, if you're a coach, you're onboarding experience, one of the most critical things you have in your business, the first 48 hours are so pivotal towards the way that a consumer experiences your product. But yeah, it's mind blowing to me. There is something around that. I can't imagine building a business, predicated on people not using the product.

Starting point is 01:04:33 Like, I mean, we're aware that it happens. Every business owner knows. I mean, that's what I'm going out there. That's why I think we all have like a subtle distaste for a plan of fitness. I mean, if it's your local gym and you got to use it whatever, but we know that the model is built off of the idea that we truly don't want people to get fit. We don't want them to show up really.

Starting point is 01:04:55 We want the idea that we were going to business. The model is built off of, can we make, we have figured out a price that is low enough, that people will justify paying it even if they don't use it by simply offering free pizza on Fridays because they'll do the math. Like, well, if I have three slices of pizza, that covers the membership.

Starting point is 01:05:14 So even if I don't show the gym, that's a no brainer I'll just pay for. And then you attract that type of person. If you discourage the guy or girl in the fitted tank top who grunts and gets into their workouts, you don't want to. You don't want to. You don't actually use our equipment and you position it as calling them lungs and that's

Starting point is 01:05:34 why I'm actually. I'd consider that part of it. Oh, no, no. I had to consider like the equipment use. Obviously, I understood the like the show up rate and those things. I hadn't considered like the excessive wear and tear of people that actually did. That's how, from a business standpoint, it's absolutely brilliant.

Starting point is 01:05:49 But there's the part of me that I have distaste for because I recognize exactly what they went out and did and why they are so madly successful. You see the stock plummeted last week? They've been, they've been, because they fired their CEO overnight. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, they're like randomly bored, voted them out.

Starting point is 01:06:04 And then apparently he's gonna stay on the board and still have some sort of advisory role, but literally overnight the board voted him out. And that day it's signaled like lots of questions. And so they're still, I've commented like 45% in a day. I wonder why, no, it's not an all-time low right now. Here's what's crazy to me, okay. Name one thing that if you improve,

Starting point is 01:06:25 also improves everything else in your life. Name one thing that if you improve, also improves everything else in your life. Besides your health. Nothing. Nothing. If you improve your health, everything improves. And yet you could get a gym membership for nine bucks a month, okay? That's how terrible of a job our industry's done

Starting point is 01:06:42 at actually delivering what health and fitness can really do, that people buck at a $50 a month membership, okay? But we'll spend hundreds of dollars a month on a quick coffee that they get every morning or a cell phone charge or streaming services. That's insane to me. Oh, look, Adam knows these numbers. We sell a program if they're on sale for 50 or 70 bucks,

Starting point is 01:07:07 if it's on sale, if it's full price around 100 bucks. What's our lifetime value? 740 bucks. Okay. So our average customer has invested $700. And our programs on the wrong sale are between 50 to 70 bucks. That's the number we're most proud of right there. We're so proud of that number. I don't care if you get me a million more customers if they don't stick around. What am I doing? You know, what am I doing? Yeah, I mean, it's the one thing

Starting point is 01:07:34 that has the power to literally change everything. I think back to, I would say like losing my dad last year's impacted me way more than I've probably let on to publicly or openly discussed. And I think about it every day, like, dude, I would give anything to have him back. And my dad was extremely unhealthy. And if I could just get him to change his habits, like the last two years that he was living, I think he would probably still be here to do that. And it's just like, man, like, there's no money involved in that. There's no fame involved in that.

Starting point is 01:08:04 There's nothing that anyone else in the world would even know or experience. But I would get to have my dad. Jason, here's how I'm not going to, at the threat of painting, a super bleak picture. Here's what we're up against. Think of the average unhealthy consumer, and then think of the average healthy consumer. Okay, look at the purchasing habits. Go to the grocery store. What percentage of the products in the grocery store

Starting point is 01:08:31 are purchased by unhealthy people versus healthy people? Something like 80, 20 or more like 90. That's gonna get 80 or 90. 10, how much money is an unhealthy consumer worth for the pharmaceutical industry versus a healthy consumer? Think of other purchases clothing. Well, here, let me take that look. Anything you can use the num or you can use the distract, the unhealthy consumer is going

Starting point is 01:08:54 to consume more. So literally we're fighting the entire market. So let me touch on that because I think that I had a conversation, really interesting conversation with somebody yesterday on the outlook of the health of fitness industry and and somebody said, you know It's gonna be scary to be in health of fitness because there's pills coming out that will Destroy the appetite and lose body fat, right? So I Don't think it's happening, but whatever not here to debate it

Starting point is 01:09:21 If if the amount of R&D that's going on on the medical side is increasing that much, they know they're starting to lose the war a little bit, right? Because like you just said, they make so much money on lack of health. And if they're willing to risk some of that money to now go out and make the money on health, you know that times are changing. You know that people are starting to at least think about health, right? So we're making a dent, but that dent is nothing like you said earlier, like we're still fatter, we're still more obese, we're still more unhealthy, we still lack lots of

Starting point is 01:09:56 knowledge and we haven't even scrapped certain things. I just want to, I wonder if it's a dent per se or it's, and I actually think we've had this conversation. It was one of our first conversations, and I believe I brought up the point of like, I believe that the pendulum has swung so far, like we're getting so sick, so unhealthy, it's getting so bad that it inevitably has to come back the other direction. And I think we, I hope, that we have reached that.

Starting point is 01:10:21 I just read a study on the show where they took people who were treated for in-hospital for depression. So consider the person. If you get hospitalized for depression, it's really bad. Yep, okay. They took groups of people, they divided them. And one group, they had them,

Starting point is 01:10:38 they had a window in the room that faced the east. That's it, open. So the sun came up and they got to see the rising sun as it rose. They were in the hospital three days less From that wow three days less now What are the incentives for the medical industry to build rooms like that for zero? In fact the incentives of the opposite We're gonna lose money if we put them in rooms for one facing west

Starting point is 01:11:02 We we can't because they're gonna be out three days earlier That's that's what that study actually does. It actually gives them an incentive to do the opposite. Look at the mental health studies that are coming. And for sure, by the way, there's some evil person building a building that was absolutely 100% knows that stat and that person is I guarantee you, not healthy.

Starting point is 01:11:21 But to speak to what you said, I don't like the pendulum, right? We've swung so far to the state of lack of health that it's starting to come the other way, concurrent with the rate of growth of the marketing shit is actually scary to me. Yeah. Because now we're going to start the swing backwards. And I think this is what you are seeing is now you're just seeing fear mongering. Yeah. Now you're seeing after reading. Not about average. Yeah. Oh, your, your gods fucked up, your hormones are fucked up, your thyroid's fucked up. Like, you're so fucked up, you have to have me.

Starting point is 01:11:53 And it's like, no, like, by the way, like dig into, and I've done this, like I, I researched what everybody puts out there because I'm fascinated and I love to learn. Like, I'm actually hoping that I learned something a lot of times what I uncover is that virtually everyone's saying the same thing which at the core of most things health and fitness

Starting point is 01:12:08 is really just stress control to facilitate adaptations. Which the opening statement I've made in every certification is this whole game is predicated on stress and adaptation. You know what I think we need to do better? Because I think, I don't think this is the answer, but I think this is part of the strategy that will be effective. For too long, fitness and health has been sold

Starting point is 01:12:30 by the aesthetics. And I get that, if you're fit and healthy, you look better. A fact, right? Health radiates, you're probably gonna look leaner, you're gonna have better posture, all that stuff. So everybody's already connected that. Here's what we're not selling enough the mental health benefits

Starting point is 01:12:46 In fact if you were look at the benefits of fitness and exercise and you were looking at physiological health benefits and mental health benefits The mental health benefits actually occur faster and more consistently and what are we suffering for from right now in terms of we have a terrible health That the depression is in depression. Exiting depression. Exploding. Here's the fucked up part. And nothing does it better than health and fitness. Let's go back to our government friends though.

Starting point is 01:13:11 They're never going to approve us talking about that. And like we talked about all the FTC shit, right? Like you want to go back to us now making statements in advertising or anywhere publicly that this shit works. Bro, we will fuck out. Did you see? We'll have ages. So he's like, like you see what Tom and Larry just put it posted?

Starting point is 01:13:30 No, pull it up. The he just, this is just this morning. I just saw it's telling the guys that on the way here. Yeah. Supposedly, uh, fucking is pulling, like any, any health professionals that are talking about sunlight being healthy and so that's in your content. Now it's going to get. I'm telling you the minute, the minute you start putting out truth that goes against what we were talking about on the medical

Starting point is 01:13:53 side because right now, yeah, like brain health, like medical, you know, things like depression, mental health is so big. Like the amount of money they're making is so fucking high that if we start talking about simple shit, like sunlight, like movement, like fucking working out, eating better, and we actually start, we create the correlation, they're gonna still us. Jason, let me ask you, if you've been there

Starting point is 01:14:15 probably read this real quick before you just go. Yeah, under the new YouTube guidelines for health information, they have categorized sunlight in the medical category. That means that only content from doctors and quote-unquote approved sources can have videos on sunlight be visible. A little real. Yeah. So, let me ask you this, Jason. You've been working out for a long time. Is the way you look in the top five reasons why you continue to do it or is mental health in the top five? So, I'll be very honest. when I started, all I cared about was how it looked,

Starting point is 01:14:45 because that's where it started. 100% I'll tell you today, mental health is probably higher. And like I'll give you this statement. Last time I came here, I told you guys that I was struggling with the notion of like losing way and like the way I was gonna look on straight. Like we talked openly about that.

Starting point is 01:15:03 I'll tell you today, like genuinely, like the way somebody perceives me to look I give zero fucks. That's amazing. I've come so far since like we did that podcast and like you know obviously like my friends and my inner circle knows like I'm pursuing playing golf at like a higher level and so I've you know just done things that are functional for that and obviously have lost some muscle and so yeah like at times I challenge like my own identity in a, I'm like, oh, I can't, you know, I can't squat 500 anymore.

Starting point is 01:15:27 So it still like bumps me out. But like, I'm very confident in where I'm at. And let me tell you man, like 19 year old interacts with kid that almost killed himself. It's a 39 year old, saying confident in his skin. You're gonna tell me exercise doesn't work. Like are you shitting me? That's 20 years of proof.

Starting point is 01:15:45 That fucking works. The data on depression and anxiety are clear now. It shows that fitness outperforms everything. Health and fitness outperforms and everything with those. Here's how messed up it is, by the way. In the mental health space, there's research and data now coming out on what used to be categorized as illegal psychedelic drugs for mental health.

Starting point is 01:16:04 Here's why they're scared. In the, this has nothing to do with health and fitness, but just to kind of highlight what I'm talking about. They all show in studies that treatments with some of these things where somebody will go in for treatment resistant depression, we'll get one or two treatments and have no depression for a year or two years. That scares the shit out of the pharmaceutical industry because they're trying to figure out how they can make, how can we make money on something you take once?

Starting point is 01:16:26 Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. Can we rework this in a way to where you take it on a regular basis? Yeah. The incentives are in the opposite direction. This is what we're up against. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:37 No, it's scary, man. Like, it's a scary world we live in. And this only reinforces the need for people to get on the front for the people to get on the front lines that want to be on the front lines. Right? And what we're talking about now is more serious than finance. We're not talking about people on the front lines to make money. We're talking about people on the fucking front lines to save the health of humans. One of my favorite things to do, and we do this in an indirect way. So full disclosure, we do this indirectly all the time because we know it's more effective, but we try to teach other coaches and trainers how to sell the message effectively by selling it

Starting point is 01:17:14 ourselves. Yeah, because that's what you have to call leadership, bro. Like, that's, there's nothing wrong with that. Like, in my opinion, that's called leadership. And I think that's, you guys leave that by example. And I think that's why you guys are where you are, the staying power of this podcast is unbelievable. And you know, listen, as a company that advertises here, that we've done, you know, events together and you guys come speak at our events. When we say the name, mind pump,

Starting point is 01:17:38 and the things that it represents, the there's a raving group of fans out there that cannot wait to meet you guys to connect with you guys to I mean the the Q&A that you guys did privately for us last year was packed I mean I've never seen that many people come to registration because you guys were doing the Q&A and it's like You've never sold yourselves as like come meet us. It's like we're gonna put the truth out and People want to be around the truth and I think that that right there, man, it says everything. And I think as an industry, how do we mimic that? Yeah, I think the biggest takeaway from this conversation for all the coaches and trainers

Starting point is 01:18:13 that are listening is, and I hear this, so I want to make sure we say it again, is that the market is oversaturated with bad coaches, which means there's massive opportunity. Totally. You're a good people to come to space. So do not fool yourself to think that, oh, there's no room for me or there's not opportunity for me because I see all these posts. I see all these fitness people.

Starting point is 01:18:37 It's really a lot of people doing it the wrong way, the bad way, the unhealthy way, the unsustainable way, which means there's this massive opportunity for you to come in. And we lightly touched on it. I didn't get a chance to tell you because I actually have a couple of really good friends that own gyms or manage gyms still in the space. And it's that the talent is less.

Starting point is 01:18:59 So even though we have more knowledge, more abilities to get certified and educated and easier access of wisdom, you have less qualified, less talented trainers that are out there helping our people. So, if you're listening to this and wondering if I should get involved or do this because I'm passionate about it, I'm scared because you think it's, no, it is not. You're going to crush. Yeah, I actually feel like there's more opportunity today. It's kind of like, it's such a bad analogy,

Starting point is 01:19:28 but I'll throw it out there anyway. It's kind of like politics right now. Like, you know, like there's not a very good choice. And so if you are somebody that wants to get into politics, it's like, now's your opportunity. Right. Because nobody wants to fuck you up. It's why the non-politician one, just right.

Starting point is 01:19:42 Yeah, exactly, right. No, but I mean, yeah, I couldn't agree more, man. And obviously, I get to see, I get to see so much, right? I get to see behind the scenes of so many of the businesses, and I get to see the numbers, the growth, and what people don't realize that I see is the level of coaching. And you know, you asked me earlier, businesses that I respect.

Starting point is 01:20:02 Those people create unreal results. And that's what I respect the most, man, is like, I know coaches that will live and die for their clients. Like, I had a, this is what I've always believed to be true. When I was a coach, I had a client that could not get the answers she wanted from a doctor in Oregon. And I was living in Virginia at the time. And she's like, I have this doctor's opinion

Starting point is 01:20:24 or a doctor's appointment. I just, I don't know how it's gonna go. And I was living in Virginia at the time. And she's like, I have this doctor's opinion or doctor appointment. I just, I don't know how it's going to go. And I was like, dope. I was like, what time is it tomorrow? She's like, it's three in the afternoon. And I was like, cool. There's a flight that'll get me in like 11 a.m. And I boarded the flight and I flew my ass out to Oregon.

Starting point is 01:20:37 Yeah. And I went to the doctor's appointment. And I was like, here's the answers we need. That's it. Like, this is all I'm trying to understand for like the journey you're taking my client on. And imagine the impact you made on that client. Bro, I can tell you because she went from struggling

Starting point is 01:20:53 overweight her whole life to, I'm not saying anything magical and protocol so I can buy all means I did not. But I gave her the belief in herself that like she could do this. And I think that, I mean, she went on to lose all the way. To be very confident, she now as a family. Like it's pretty wide. Or how her life turned around.

Starting point is 01:21:14 We are working with people who've had lots of people give up on them. And here's the worst part, they give up on themselves. Yep. So when they see a coach that refuses to give up. Yep. That's everything right there. It is. It is, that refuses to give up, that's everything right there. It is. It is, man. And I think that that's like, again, I didn't do this. I'm so grateful for what

Starting point is 01:21:34 this has given me in my life. I mean, I don't think that I would be experiencing life the way I experienced it now without this industry. But like, I say all the time, you know, I would never wish anorexia on my own worst enemy, but I made it through. And I know what it's like to be at the bottom. And I believe it was placed in my life to show me and directly connect to how people are feeling that are left alone, that are at the bottom, and that are, you know, lacking that light, that vision to potentially get out.

Starting point is 01:22:02 And, you know, I want no person left behind. And I think that that's who we have to become as an industry. No one left behind, no one not cared about. And everybody given an opportunity for success. And I'm going to add one other thing Jason, because today's world's a little scary with, I don't know, for lack of a better term, cancel culture or social media. We just read something from YouTube. And so someone might be like, oh God, but I wanna say these things, but I'm afraid they're gonna, the algorithm's gonna make it so that I'm not visible and you know that,

Starting point is 01:22:32 if I say meat is healthy, then they're gonna say you're harm in the environment or whatever, right? And here's what I'm gonna say, you make friends of connections with people who are like you, like we have you in our corner, we have other friends in our corners. And I'll say this right now, I fucking dare you to try to shut us down because we'll all work together and it'll be really fucking hard.

Starting point is 01:22:53 And that's and I'm encouraging coaches to work together. Don't compete with each other in the sense that you're trying to take each other down. Work together. Well, there are not a billion fucking people in this world. If you think you're competing with each other, you're not as good as you think. Appreciate that. No, if you look at your peers,

Starting point is 01:23:10 be competitive with wanting to go out there and care more than anybody else. Leave with that. Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. We've gotten away from that message for a long time now in our space. When you look at the landscape and your peers,

Starting point is 01:23:25 don't compare their money, don't compare to their transfer, compared that I care more, I'm willing to get on a plane, even if there's not an ROI for it right away. I'm not going to do a million times. Let me tell you. Let me lead with that, and I promise you, I promise you, it's a slower game, but it compounds, and you'll be here still 10, 15 years later. I think it'll be changing lives. Thanks, Jason. Thank you, brother.

Starting point is 01:23:51 Appreciate it, dude. You got it. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac, maps for formants and maps aesthetic, 9 months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundles

Starting point is 01:24:27 like having sour, animal, and justine as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is MindPump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2175: A Call to Action for All Trainers & Coaches With Jason Phillips

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