Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2179: How to Fix Left & Right Side Muscle Imbalances, Signs to Stop Reverse Dieting & Start Cutting, What Do Do if You Are in a Caloric Deficit but Are Gaining Weight & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, hop, mind, hop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we had live callers call in and we help them with their health and fitness was really fun. That was after though an intro portion. So the intro portion today was 55 minutes long. That's where we talk about current events and scientific studies fitness our lives and just have a lot of fun.

Starting point is 00:00:35 If you want to fast forward or skip around to some of your favorite parts, check the show notes. There's timestamps there that you can click on. Also if you want to be on an episode like this where you call in, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Juve. They make red lights for your home,

Starting point is 00:00:55 or your car, or on the go, that are the same kind of red lights that are used in the studies that show all the value of red light therapy. This stuff is insane, everyone. It'll help you regrow hair, helps with the value of red light therapy. This stuff is insane, everyone. It'll help you regrow hair, helps with the health of your skin, it'll speed up recovery. It's even been shown to race testosterone

Starting point is 00:01:12 in men with low testosterone levels. It's pretty amazing. And Juve is the only company we trust with red light therapy. Check them out, go to juve.com. That's J-O-O-V-V.com forward slash Mind Pump. The code Mind Pump will get you $50 off. This episode is also brought to you by NCI. This is one of the best certification courses

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Starting point is 00:02:26 and then use the code October 50 for that discount. All right, back to the show. Red light therapy, you might have heard about it. Sounds like magic. Is it snake oil? No, it's actually effective at quite a few things. In fact, a study just came out showing that red light therapy used on the back of the neck reduced blood sugar levels by, get this, 28%. The practitioners did nothing else. They just used red light therapy and it literally turbocharged their mitochondria to suck blood sugar out of their blood to be used as fuel. Pretty remarkable stuff.

Starting point is 00:03:04 You can just add that to the amazing list of things that red light therapy does. Do you think in the future, we're gonna have like sugar vampires, beds that are designed or like rooms that like houses are started like it, it makes sense to me with all the positive effects of red light therapy.

Starting point is 00:03:22 I haven't read anything with any sort of adverse effects from it. Why would you not start to make like bathrooms or like some rooms in your, or the bed, or like above the bed, like we just, has- Has the weight though the cost goes substantially down? Right, like some people are like,

Starting point is 00:03:37 wow, there's so much value to it that like, there's more market demand or- I mean, come on, we do things in houses now that heat the tile floors at It costs thousands of dollars. Like it can't be that crazy to run red light in the ceiling or something like that. It's just because you have to do it for like 10, 15 minutes. So maybe that's why a bath, that's why a bathroom makes sense. Imagine it, which how long do you spend in the shower brushing your teeth and everything?

Starting point is 00:03:57 Like, yeah, I mean, that's perfect. That's where I put the juice. That's what I would do. I'm really running in my bathroom lights and like imagine coming in, you switch and it's all red light in your shower And brush it like every morning you're getting it like that. I remember when we first met with jive They were one that they have I'll skeptically were the super I was too like regrow hair makes your skin

Starting point is 00:04:18 You know, I was like this wrinkle wizardry speeds up recovery helps you raise testosterone like you know It's like the list of things. It's like, oh, it does everything. Yeah, no thanks, right? And then they sent me all these studies. Some of them going back to the 70s. I was like, what? This is wild. And some of the studies were done by NASA.

Starting point is 00:04:34 In fact, yeah. And the studies just keep coming out. This is the latest one. Reduces blood sugar. Yeah. This is crazy. Like, yeah, for people who have insulin resistance or issues with that, now, exercise is the best yeah for people who have like insulin resistance or issues with that Now exercises the best possible thing you could do obviously building muscle

Starting point is 00:04:49 But how many you know imagine the average person they don't want to work out when you get up Would be pretty easy be like hey look when you sit down the morning for your coffee just put this on the back of your neck This will make a big difference. Why why the back of the neck? That's just what they did in the study. It could be anywhere. I think it doesn't matter. I really don't Why the back of the neck? That's just what they did in the study. It could be anywhere. I think it doesn't matter. I really don't.

Starting point is 00:05:05 Oh, yes, I know. Because what it does, so for people who don't know, there's a particular wavelength of light that literally turns on the mitochondria. It literally, it's like, so you mitochondria, think of them, I know people say this, this is super general. It's obviously more complex than this,

Starting point is 00:05:20 but think of the mitochondria as like energy producing engines of every cell. So it's basically think of the mitochondria as like energy producing engines of every cell. So it's basically like telling the mitochondria create more energy, burn more energy, uptake more glucose, utilize more energy. So a turbocharges them. So what does that mean? That means that all the cells that are powered

Starting point is 00:05:37 by mitochondria now become kind of turbocharged, right? So skin cells regenerate faster, muscle cells recover faster, hair regros and because mitochondria use glucose and ATP and all this stuff, it's going to uptake more of it by using it. In the past, you used to have to go to expensive, like you have to go to dermatologist's office or like really high-end skincare places to get it. And it just wasn't feasible because it was expensive. You have to use it on a semi-regular basis, four days a week or so.

Starting point is 00:06:12 And if you wanted to get an actual home unit, that was legit, like the ones that, there were just so many snake oil salesmen out there selling you just painted red bulbs. Yeah, well, it has to be the right wavelength, but in Juve does this. But before you would, you would cost you like $10,000 to get like a legit panel, like the ones you use in studies. Now, of course, Juve, much less expensive, but

Starting point is 00:06:32 if you go on Amazon, you'll see all these red light devices, and I know this because I'll tell my family members about this, uh, cousins and stuff. And I thought this was like, oh, I bought this. Oh, I got this. It was like half price and I got this hat with like red lights in it. Like, look at the wavelength, bro. It's the wrong one. I'm doing anything for you. So okay, is it, does it have a systemic effect? Yep.

Starting point is 00:06:52 So then, is it, why isn't, well, it's not necessary then, obviously. Why, why would I get the huge panel and stand in front of it naked versus... We're gonna affect more mitochondria. Okay. There's a local effect and a systemic effect that happened. So most of it would happen locally when it comes to depending on the wavelength, some red light. So Jew has panels that'll that'll penetrate deeper and some

Starting point is 00:07:15 that are more on the surface. So the surface one's more for skin, the deeper ones. Yeah, I know they have the little ones they have a option. One of the other and then the big panel has a combination of both. Yeah, I know that. So if you want muscle recovery, get the deeper one. If you want skin care, then you get the one that's a little more surface.

Starting point is 00:07:32 Nonetheless, they all stimulate mitochondria. I still like the idea if, like, we're getting rid of the need for cars and your garage and everything that we were talking about a while back, like we turn that into like gym slash recovery space. You know, and then like have those all over the walls and over the ceilings and, you know, just being there and turn it on. It's, it is one of those things.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Like if it's that effective and valuable, like it should start like making its way into actually like, structure the house. Yeah, I feel like if you were, if you were building, like let's say a new home right now, the same way you have an option, a lot of times to put solar, or in fact, California you have to know. But I mean, if you had that option, you know, oh, for 20,000 more,

Starting point is 00:08:13 I can do this, oh, for 20,000 more, I can have my garage completely outfitted in red light, or my bathroom completely outfitted in red light. It's interesting that they haven't moved in that, is you think it's just lack of awareness still? I think it's just because it's now you can buy the panels and hang them up yourself maybe, but I don't know.

Starting point is 00:08:29 I bet you some people already have done what you're saying. I wouldn't, I would imagine, like high end homes, some people are like custom. That would be cool. Maybe you look dead up. Andrew, see if you can find some custom red light homes. Red light therapy rooms or something like that. Yeah, I

Starting point is 00:08:51 This is the longest I've this is the longest I've consistently used the juice. Yeah, so I've used it now I don't know maybe three four days a week for months now and My my skin is it makes a huge difference on my face. It's so weird. Yeah, it's really in fact We saw who do we rent we ran to Jordan shallow yesterday, right? And he walks up to me, oh man, you look like you're getting younger and I'm getting older. Nobody ever tells me that Nobody ever tells me that yeah, so I was like, all right You know, that's good for that's good for you know one point for for red light therapy No, this is the most consistent. I've seen you with it I think I probably used it the most I did yeah I'm and I've actually been inconsistent with it lately, which I need to get back into that.

Starting point is 00:09:25 But it's just one of those things. This is my panel. That's why this is normally at my house. I brought it in to the boys when they were doing that competition, and I haven't taken it back. Well, think about it. Like, name one non-exercise thing, and non-pharmaceutical, that will immediately,

Starting point is 00:09:40 like in that short period of time, take use of, I don't know how long they do in the study. I think it's like 10, 50 minutes. That will lower your blood glucose by over 25%. Name something. Okay, now let's, let's, let's, let's, there's not a supplement.

Starting point is 00:09:54 There's nothing that'll do that. Let's role play a scenario though. Okay, now you're, you're talking to your average client that we used to get. First time you're kind of meeting them or what are we at that in their sitting in front of you. And they've got chronic pain. They are 40, 50 pounds overweight, terrible diet.

Starting point is 00:10:08 They don't exercise yet. And they're buying training from you. Where in that situation, and they ask you about, I know you're not recommending. I'm not you're going to go get a red light terrible. Like I know you would never exercise. Well, let's say someone says, like, hey, and I read a lot about the red light therapy. And I heard a lot of benefits from it. My husband and I were thinking about buying it.

Starting point is 00:10:29 What do you think? And I'm buying training from you. Yeah, so what do you say to them? And that's a true. I'm gonna say you're gonna notice a lot of benefits on your skin. And so this study didn't exist before. So now I would say it will lower your blood sugar.

Starting point is 00:10:42 It'll help with your blood sugar, help with insulin sensitivity. If you're thinking about getting it, I think it's a good idea. Three days a week while you're doing something, reading, having your coffee, whatever, just shine it on yourself. And I guess that's a significant, that's crazy.

Starting point is 00:10:58 You can't buy a supplement. There's nothing that'll do that besides exercise and pharmaceuticals. So I feel like I would probably say it a little different. Like I would say to my client that asked that like, if you have the expendable income, absolutely. Yeah. Because it has lots of benefits to it.

Starting point is 00:11:13 Of course, yeah, of course. But if you're telling me I have, you know, a thousand something dollars to invest in myself for my health and stuff like that, and that's all you have. I spend on personal training. That's right. Training or putting together like meal prepping, good food, good health. Yeah. So I them if I'm on but I mean that's kind of how I fill with a lot of supplements Even too same thing. It's like if you have the money diet son all those things are

Starting point is 00:11:34 Beneficial and only going to help the process, but you're always gonna I'm always gonna tackle the big rocks with my people first before I'm like hey Let's slap this on because if because if you default to that, as you think that's what's gonna get you healthy and in shape, like, So here's a study I would like to see. We've speculated on this. I would like to see, yeah, that's a,

Starting point is 00:11:54 I think those are the Juve panels. They put on their wall. Yeah, that's a big round. Here's what I would like to see. I would like to see a study where people use the red light, they take crating and people use the red light, they take creating and then they use the red light to see if it increases the uptake in utilization. Because creating obviously turns ATP to that.

Starting point is 00:12:14 I did that for quite a while. So did I, but I don't know if I could, I know, I can. I want to look at a study. I want to see what the numbers show. I think it would be really fucking cool, because it's like, first off, Crating, just a better assimilated or... Yeah, it's, it's turning on the mitochondria. They're going to burn more ATP too.

Starting point is 00:12:32 Give them that Crating, you know, make it, make it, I think there would be a... Supercharge it. I think they'll be a cumulative effect. I think it would be... That would be interesting. Yeah, kind of like a, you know, one plus one equals three type of thing, where they, where they work better together than they do synergistic, right? I'd like to see that because Crateene by itself is turning out to be probably the best longevity supplement period in a story that you take, add something like this to it.

Starting point is 00:12:56 I would speculate, we would see some pretty cool. I'm gonna add a little motsy in there. Well, at the peptide, yeah. Are you guys getting excited at all about London? I mean, it's around the corner for us now. I haven't put a lot of thought into it yet, but yeah, I mean, it's gonna be cool, dude. I think, and you've never been there before, right?

Starting point is 00:13:13 No, I've never been there at all. I mean, anytime in opportunity to talk about it, or what's going on here? Yeah, we can talk about it. Why can't we talk about it, right? We can't talk about it. Can we not talk about it? I have no idea.

Starting point is 00:13:22 Yeah, we can talk about it. That means Doug doesn't want you to talk about it. No, I don't know. No, we can talk about it? I have no idea. Yeah, that means Doug doesn't want you to talk about it. No, I don't know. No, we can talk about it. Oh, we can. Well, I mean, what made me think about is I realized that we were going to miss out on the NCI event because the NCI event is the same time that will be out in London. So which is going to, I mean, he's got the lineup Jason has of speakers.

Starting point is 00:13:40 I feel like every time he does one of these events, he just keeps leveling up the speakers that he has on it. You know what they do really well? I'm always thinking of the right words to describe things because it's so effective, right? Just how you explain things and the words you use makes such a big difference and how people understand it. What NCI does really well is they try to influence the culture around trainers and coaches, more than other certificates, more than just teaching you, this is good nutrition, this is whatever, they're trying to develop a culture to where the trainers and coaches that come out

Starting point is 00:14:11 of their certifications approach things with a mindset, they approach things with a particular philosophy, and one that we align very strongly with, that's what they do really well, better than anybody else. Well, no, I think that's realistic information, relatable things, like how to communicate. How to communicate. How do I apply this right away?

Starting point is 00:14:30 How do I get my clients to buy into these ideas? Well, that's what really matters anyway. Well, I mean, I think that's what originally connected us so much to Jason was that that was one of the things that we wanted to do with creating this business was we wanted to take all this high level information, all the science, all the studies, all the certifications and degrees and experience that we have accumulated over all these years, and how do you take all that and distill that down to the average person or trainer so that they actually Makes impact in their life and they make and they make behavioral changes not

Starting point is 00:15:08 Let's put a show together and like teach everybody how smart we all are and let them know that like oh We're an authority in this base because we know this much and we've been doing this much. No, it's like okay Let's take a break actually works in applications. Yeah, we're communication and and in its simplest form too I mean, and I think that's really It's interesting how challenging that is for really smart coaches and trainers. Like when the, it's like the smarter they get sometimes the more difficult it is for them to do that. I mean, example, that's our good buddy, shallow. That guy is like a walking encyclopedia.

Starting point is 00:15:39 One of the most like, I learned something new from every time I hang out. He's one of the few people and we have doctors on here all the time and very brilliant people Jordan when Jordan talks I Find myself like hanging on every word because I'm like trying to like processing it Yeah, I'm trying to process it and then like and then also break it down like okay What okay, I get what you also as a pro and he just has a profound Vocabulary well no besides has a profound vocabulary. Well, no, besides that,

Starting point is 00:16:06 a profound understanding of how the human body works. Yes, like on the deepest level, and then he has a crazy vocabulary, and you combine all that, and it's like, it is, I think he's the thing about Jordan is, he's really good at teaching coaches and trainers, had to understand these concepts, program design, I think that he's phenomenal at that. I mean, I learned, like you said, when I talked to him for 15 minutes, I never don't learn

Starting point is 00:16:34 something. I've always learned something. But I also think, and then, so at the same time, I know Doug had him do like an elevator pitch for his certification for us, So we had the video of that. And Doug was just like, talk to me like I'm a four-year-old. And he's like, you could just see how hard that is for him to do that. And I do, I think you get that high of a level of education.

Starting point is 00:16:58 A lot of people, once they get there, have a really hard time coming back the other direction. This is something that I think Jason and NCI have done really well. I mean, Jason's brilliant in his own right. That's right. Very, especially when it comes to community. Yeah, nutrition and helping athletes and the average person,

Starting point is 00:17:15 like he's got a very, very high level understanding of that. But then when you talk to him, he drops F-bombs, he's like relatable, like he does a really good job of simplifying it. Look, historically Carl Sagan, Carl Sagan, I think astrophysicist, right? He turned an entire generation of kids into wanting to learn about space. The cosmos.

Starting point is 00:17:40 Into wanting to learn about the cosmos. Carl Sagan, there was lots of astrophysic, all brilliant. But what he did very well was he communicated in a way that resonated with the average person. Milton Friedman, economist, Nobel Prize winning. Now, when's the last time an economist was interesting? Never, the most boring people in the world. Milton Friedman, he really impacted the world

Starting point is 00:18:00 and the average person. I mean, he was on talk shows, this is back in the 70s and 80s. He would speak at colleges because he understood how to communicate so effectively that the average person became interested in economics. That's what got me interested was listening to Milton Friedman. So this is like how you make real impact as a coach or trainer. It's, the knowledge has to be there.

Starting point is 00:18:21 You got to know your stuff, but can you convey it? And does it really resonate? You think both are necessary for the world or do you think one could do without the other? Or do you think that you don't? I think you need the brilliant people. I think both. And then you need, of course, you need average people, but you need the brilliant people to come up with the ideas and concepts, hit their fringe stuff. And then you need the person to take that and go, okay, here's what, here's what, here's what, somebody always be on the cutting edge.

Starting point is 00:18:48 Totally. Somebody out there that's like always just buried in the research and like really, you know, high level. And then, you know, people in between to distill it now. The rest of us, like communicated. I remember when, like, I like to think we're the people in between, that's what I think. I hope so.

Starting point is 00:19:04 I hope so. I really, when Jordan Salo explained how chiropractic adjustments, why they feel good. And he, he explained, nobody ever explained to me. Well, nobody ever explained to me. They're like, oh, it's aligning this, aligning that. And it's not really, that's not really what's happening or I don't know. And he said there are certain, like, joints and small tight muscles that are holding things together. And now he said in his words, so I'm kind of taking it down, right?

Starting point is 00:19:31 That, like, when a muscle's tight, it's tight because the CNS tells it to be tight. One of the ways you can get a muscle loosened up is to stretch it, okay? There are going to be parts in your body, the spine or small joints where you're not going to be able to do that. It's just tight, it's not happening, it's not moving. And when a good chiropractor knows how to pop the joint, really the pop is not the important part. The part is that that's important is that they're articulating the joint and causing a small stretch

Starting point is 00:19:55 in that muscle and that muscle then finally relaxes. And that's why after you get into chiropractic, adjusts me like, oh, that feels so much better. So it makes you sense from muscular. Totally. So you would are since from muscular totally So you would categorize even the popping of a carpenter as a stretch That's what's happening the pop is just gas being released between the you know suction of the two joints I mean, I could pop my knuckles. Yeah, but what they can do is they can go in and they can get a rib to move just slightly

Starting point is 00:20:20 Or a vertebrate to move just slightly so So the tight muscles around it, get that. Just like if you stretch your bicep out because it's too tight, now it releases. Funny is the person that will associate that, right? Of course. Because I hear the noise and then it's sort of like triggers over spots. It's more like proof that you were able

Starting point is 00:20:36 to get the joint to move, but it's not necessary. Good car practice tell you that. The pop doesn't mean. You had other stuff in that conversation yesterday too that I was blowing my mind. I want to go back and listen to it again because I was like, oh, I need to go back and listen to it again because I was like, oh, I need to go back and listen to that again on like how he explained

Starting point is 00:20:48 the communication from like the receiving end versus like just communicating from one direction and then doing things differently. How that will like, oh, that changes the communication process and like I was like, blown, I'm always blown away. There's always something that he drops that I'm like, I know. I've never thought of it that way.

Starting point is 00:21:05 And that's like, and I know that, like that's actually the true way. We've all heard it in different ways, communicated, and I always appreciate listening to him. Dude, I gotta tell you something embarrassing happened this morning at the gym. It was kind of more, more I felt bad than anything. So I'm, I'm training and, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:21 I have my headphones on, I'm in my own world, right? And I'm doing my thing, and I'm resting between sets and about, I don't know, three or four benches over. This woman is working out, doing her thing. And I notice her or whatever, because there's people around me. Anyway, I finish my set, put my weights down, I sit kind of facing forward, just kind of resting.

Starting point is 00:21:40 And she racks her dumbbells, I'm catching her through a corner of my eye. She turns to walk back and trips over one of the feet of the bench and kind of stumbles, catches up, but she's okay. Now, I saw that. She's too far from me to help. I saw she was okay, but I kind of giggled because the way she did it.

Starting point is 00:21:54 Oh, God, you did it right. Bro, she made eye contact with me right when I giggled. Oh, God. Like, then she looked at me and I'm like, Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, bro. What an asshole. Yes.

Starting point is 00:22:04 What an asshole, bro. Oh my gosh. She almost fell and I'm so sorry. Oh, bro. What an asshole. What an asshole, bro. Oh my gosh. She almost fell and I laughed. Oh, you know what I mean? Oh. You know what I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry, she's like, I told you she like walked away.

Starting point is 00:22:13 Oh, you apologize. I did. Oh yeah, of course I apologize. I just laughed at you falling. I know, at least you did that. Well, some people would do that and not do anything, you know what I'm saying? So at least you did that.

Starting point is 00:22:22 It means shit. That's rough, because that's my first response if I even hurt myself to try and laugh it off, but then like, you know what I'm saying? So at least you did that. It's, I mean shit. That's rough, because that's my first response if I even hurt myself to try and laugh it off, but then like, you know, well in the pain. But she immediately looked, she immediately looked, she's like, oh, she should look. That's like, what's the point?

Starting point is 00:22:33 I think it's a crazy story. Like if something like really bad that happened to him and it's kind of funny, but then you think about, then after you laugh, you go like, God, if I was in that situation, that would be terrifying. Or that would, you know, it's like a natural reaction, right?

Starting point is 00:22:44 Someone tells you something like that, that's so crazy or. Or that would, you know, it's like a natural reaction, right? Someone tells you something like that, that's so crazy or so ironic, and then you laugh, well, then you have this moment after the fact where you go like, oh shit, that would be devastating, right? If that happened to me, right? So I hate those moments. So they live with you forever. I mean, like for the rent, for, I know for a long time,

Starting point is 00:22:59 I don't think about that poorly. Oh, yeah, but I feel like you solved it by saying something, because that would trust me. I have embarrassing moments that I just can't. That would torture me if I did that and then I didn't say anything and I just left it alone because then I'm like, oh, that lady just thinks

Starting point is 00:23:12 I'm gonna ask her off. She's too golf, yeah, dude. Yeah. Oh, sorry. How old was she approximately? Uh, probably in her 50s. Okay, so, you know, older than me. It doesn't matter though, it's this poor lady

Starting point is 00:23:23 that she almost fell. She looks over the guy. Do you mean helper? I mean, older than me. It doesn't matter though, it's this poor lady, you know, she almost fell. She looks over the guy. It didn't even help her. It's kind of like an asshole. I mean, if it was a jacked young dude and he fell, I mean, would you say anything? I'd still feel bad. You know, I still would say.

Starting point is 00:23:33 But you would say, you would say, you could still have said sorry. I don't know. I came from a round of applause, dude. I feel like for sure Justin would. No, Justin was like a bodybuilder guy. It was just done looking at himself in the mirror. And he turned around and he tripped over the thing,

Starting point is 00:23:43 just will be And like it's actually make eye Oh, it's like you need functional fitness Do some stability with Those muscles Way to go blue in animal Just replace this up now, wow I'm gonna ask over, I keep it to myself. I can only imagine, because you've worked out with Justin and Bodybuilder James, right?

Starting point is 00:24:06 Yeah. Is he just the whole time, like, oh, he's f***ing. It's just like, I think it depends. It depends the level of it, right? Yeah, because I actually, I don't mind it. I like the bro vibes, you know? I feel like if he's with, like me, I feel like he's the buffer.

Starting point is 00:24:20 Yeah, yeah, which is probably how I feel like when we're doing all this weird functional shit or in a gym. Yeah, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm't mind, I like the bro vibes, you know? I feel like if he's with me, I feel like he's the thing I'm like the buffer. Yeah, yeah, which is probably how I feel like when we're doing all this weird functional shit or in a gym, yeah, but you don't go, push sled and shit. Yeah, but you don't go to a functional gym.

Starting point is 00:24:33 I don't know, I wouldn't, and look around, be like, what a bunch of, I don't think that, right? But bodybuildings invite that, don't they? When you get the dudes doing that sideways chest press and the weird, I don't mind it if they're serious, you know? Like if it's like a gold gym, everybody's like really, I'm like, oh, this guy goes on stage. It's the half-ass kids that are just in front of the mirror

Starting point is 00:24:51 and they're doing it all for the gram and they're into themselves. Okay, so that's how I triple. I feel that too. So it's to me and that's kind of like the, we talked to the day about the affliction and the tap out shirt. You just start.

Starting point is 00:25:04 But if you're a fucking black belt or you're like an MMA champion and you rocked shirt. So you're like, you just start. Yeah. But if, hey, if you're a fucking black belt or you're like an MMA champion and you rocked it, like cool, you know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like that's the same thing in bodybuilding. Like if you are at that level, like, if I'm looking at your physique and I'm admiring it because it's like on that level, like,

Starting point is 00:25:19 fucking, use the mirror, bro. I'm gonna watch you for a while too. I'm saying like, I'm impressed. Like, you know, if you take yourself that serious, but if it's like, you know, if you're just that guy, that's like, I know exactly what you for a while too. I'm impressed, if you take yourself that serious, but if you're just that guy that's like, I know exactly what you're doing. And it makes sense, by the way, because one of the most awkward

Starting point is 00:25:32 or most difficult things for me was the presenting my physique on stage. I did not like that. I was not that guy who stood from the most, but I was supposed to practice that. And I just didn't like doing that at all. but I was supposed to practice that, you know, and I just didn't like doing that at all. And so, you know, you get used to that, okay, I need to learn how to do this, like, how do I present my shoulders from this angle? And so you're now I also going to become this

Starting point is 00:25:54 guy who's obsessed staring myself in the mirror. And I know that I feel like, oh my god, who's, but the only thing that I feel that it saves me is like, okay, I'm put together right now. I'm saying like, if I wasn't, like, that would be, I would feel really weird. Which, there's those guys all the time. There's a guy, I was like, you know what I'm saying? You know, the most annoying person to me, the only person type of person I've ever really said, you say, I don't ever say anything, fine do your thing, whatever.

Starting point is 00:26:16 Is the dude that sits on the machine or the bench and texts forever? Does it, is that even working out? I've actually gone up to someone say, hey, would you mind resting over there? Or can you text over there so I can use it? So there's three for me. Oh, what's that one?

Starting point is 00:26:33 The other one is the guy that has all of the stuff like for a circuit. The cross for you. That's the one. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's the most annoying thing. Do you ever go for that one of the machine? Like what?

Starting point is 00:26:43 Oh yeah, I use it and especially, I go right to the one that is going to go next. I'm not even like supposed to. And I'm like, oh, just a minute, bro. I take like an hour. But yeah, or it's the guy that's got the leg machine that takes all of the weights. And it's all walked by me like, oh, you need some more weights?

Starting point is 00:27:00 What about the shadow boxer? I mean, if you're a real boxer, they're never a real boxer. I mean, I can do real boxer. They're never real boxer. I mean, Josh does that, right? So he's in here. I know. And you can tell he knows how. I'm talking about the regular dude.

Starting point is 00:27:13 Well, that's funny. He said it's a curl. He wouldn't do that in front of like the dumbbells or something. I don't know. I ought to ask Josh and we would do that. What do you think, Andrew? You think Josh would do that in front of the dumbbells? A big gym?

Starting point is 00:27:22 Oh, yeah, it's a yes, bro. He's trying to be nice right now as a boy. He's like, he's a young kid. But Josh actually, you guys did a list of what I, so one of my thing, and like, my bodybuilder friends are the ones that are guilty of this, is the leaning over the dumbbell rack to do rows.

Starting point is 00:27:38 I fucking hate. Oh, I'm so stupid. What, you know why? Cause they saw some pro bodybuilder do it. Do you know what else you could do? You could put your hand on a bench, that's like, you can carry it out of the way, so you're not taking up all that space.

Starting point is 00:27:49 Yeah, it's very good for you to learn how to carry that heavy dumbbell over there and do that. And you can create that same angle, same everything. And you just look silly because it's like, you're being lazy cause you don't wanna take it five feet over to your bench and do that. And now you're not in the way of everybody walk. That bothers me. My favorite, I'll tell you my favorite people are, but 100% favorite favorite people in the gym

Starting point is 00:28:12 are the consistent elderly people that, because I go early in the morning, and there's like the same 10 people who are probably, I would say late 60s, early 70s. There's a woman that looks like she's in her 80s. She, and they always go in there, they always work out, they always smile, they always do the thing. And I'm always like, oh man, I love that, absolutely love that. I'll get out of the way for you, I'll do whatever you need, do your thing, like it's so. I would say that's actually the most inspiring thing for me

Starting point is 00:28:39 is actually not a jack bodybuilder. No, with the most amazing physique. It's the 60 year old that looks super healthy and fit still. Like that, I see that in my dude. That's what I want to be at that age, still looking put together, still looking healthy, still strong. I will tell you guys, I have a nemesis though at this gym.

Starting point is 00:28:56 Did I take it? Another one? It's not the Sonic guy. It's not the Sonic guy. You look my ass, so I give up on that. No, no, no, no, I'm talking, there's a dude in there. So it's like a nice country club-ish type, Jeff. Is it your over at the country club, right?

Starting point is 00:29:10 Yeah, so it's not like there's no bodybuilders really working out in there. I'm like the most jack guy in there by far, right? But now there's another guy, bro. That's the movie. And he looks like, you know, he lifts and stuff. You know, we work out around the same time and I can feel the vibe.

Starting point is 00:29:22 I wonder if I know, is he like, is he around 50? Uh, he looks like he's all time. I could feel the vibe. I wonder if I know is he like, is he around 50? Uh, he looks like he might, he wears a tank top. He looks like his my age. Yeah, yeah, I don't think he trains his legs. That's what I'm telling myself. Oh, maybe he's not. This guy was actually this guy. No, he's not.

Starting point is 00:29:35 Okay. Jesse, it's me. It's the mirror. It's you. Do you go squat every day that he's there? No, I never lift heavy there. I never lift heavy there. I go here, I come here when I lift heavy, but we just, I could tell,

Starting point is 00:29:47 we walk by each other, it's almost like, there's not a knot. We never knot each other, I hate what's up, bro. It's more like a squint. Yeah, it's more like a, I'm the guy. I'm the killer guy. I'm the guy. This is my, this is my, well, I'm the first time you gotta come an hour later, dude.

Starting point is 00:30:00 I never, I never felt comfortable lifting heavy at that gym. Yeah, really? Yeah, because it is so kind. It just doesn't feel right. Especially upstairs where you're on the opposite. Yeah, I don't lift heavy there because I hear the floor. Well, just heavy lifting for me, I like to be alone, I like to do my thing, I don't want my ego getting out of control,

Starting point is 00:30:16 I don't want it whatever. There, I train like a bodybuilder. I agree. You know, it's funny, I used to train this place called like Total Fitness and there was a couple. Total. Yeah. Real clever.

Starting point is 00:30:30 And there was this couple there that literally looked just like me and Courtney. And we would go in. This is when I used to train a lot because they had a kids club and so like, you know, the kids were younger. And so we'd put them in there and then we could do our thing. And every time they come in, we'd be like, and they were like, we would just, we'd face off with them all the time.

Starting point is 00:30:51 It was so weird. Bro, I don't think I've ever met so a couple who I think Katrina and I look like. That's kind of, that's really right. They looked like exactly like us too. And it was like, and we never really like said higher. Where they have a bizzarel version. In other words, you're the better looking version. Or we never really like set higher. Were they a bizarro version? In other words, you're the better looking version.

Starting point is 00:31:07 Or were they pretty good? I think they're a little better looking. Oh, you were a bizarro. Yeah. No. I think it's not so stanker-native for them. Yeah, I was a bizarro guy the whole time. I was stronger than that pussy.

Starting point is 00:31:23 Anyways. When that couple comes in. There's the ugly version of it. Yeah, yeah. We're talking about you guys in Ditoro. Like I never slam weights or nothing. I just I caught myself, dude. I just be like, you know, that's the every time they're there.

Starting point is 00:31:40 That's the best dude. That's the best. No, that's the real. No, where I go, it's perfect, because my ego's not, except for the frickin' my nemesis, but other than that, nobody cares, I do my thing, except if I leave a little past,

Starting point is 00:31:54 sometimes I gotta get out of there real quick and I don't have time to do this theme room. And it's right around eight, like 10, eight, 10 at 15, these, these, these like 50 year old, this is the average age of these women, like 50s, right? Line up for this, I don't know what class is about to happen, but they all line up outside the class, they all get ready to go to the gym. This is that kind of 50 year old woman.

Starting point is 00:32:17 You ever been, you know, in the gym, does that, there's a 50 year old woman that what comes to work out, she don't go fuck. Yeah. There's a one that shows up and they're like, I'm going to dress nice. Oh, yeah. I'm going to put on some makeup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's literally. There's a one that shows up and they're like, I'm gonna dress nice. I'm gonna put on some makeup. I'm gonna do my, so it's literally, there's a lot of them, right?

Starting point is 00:32:29 And I have to walk by them at the end of my workout, which typically I'm, you know, I love you. Down to your tank top, bro. Oh boy. Bro, Fiend's popping the, the smiles. You know, you're the talk of the Steve Ruminin. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:32:42 Here comes Gladys. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh're like, Oh my god. Here he comes, Gladys. Yeah. Oh, no. That's the swam of the show. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Actually, there's actually a couple of women in there. I swore to God they wear like fitness heels.

Starting point is 00:32:54 They look like almost sneakers for heels, bro. What are you wearing? That's actually a great business opportunity to fitness the fitness heels. Yeah, like all kinds of fun. So, okay, I've talked about this before, you guys know this, right? Like, I'm paying for, I don't know

Starting point is 00:33:08 how many gym memberships right now. I think I have like four or five. And so, and this has been year, right? You just like to donate to gym. That, okay, well, that's, by the way, I tell you justify it. Seriously, I literally, like, I literally go like my part to support fitness.

Starting point is 00:33:19 It is, right? I kind of like, that's how I, I totally justify it in my head. Really, it's not being lazy, because I don't wanna go in, have to cancel, because canceling gym sometimes sometimes is a headache dude. They're they always trying to close. You have the right of five pages.

Starting point is 00:33:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lazy made you like facts. And I'm like, who even owns a fax? They made you have to go to my parents. Bro, you have to go. A lot of times you go in person. They want to know why. It's like, we go, because I want to cancel.

Starting point is 00:33:40 I'm saying like, but Jim's are funny like that, right? And I remember that, right? Yeah, I remember when we used to do it, we'd be like, oh, you got to talk to the GM and then GM but gyms are funny like that, right? And I remember that, right? Yeah, I remember when we used to do it, we'd be like, oh, you got to talk to the GM and then GM, you guys did that shit. Oh yeah, you make it difficult for, but it's so, so bad. So I have part of this karma, right?

Starting point is 00:33:53 So anyways, the irony of this, I mean, well before COVID, I had stopped going to a handful of these gyms. You know, and I was, went on one of my kicks, I think I've talked about this too, like every, like, I don't know, six months or a year, I try and like recalibrate my expenses and like, where am I, like, blowing money and should I be more fiscally responsible and, you know, of course, the gym thing always comes up. I really should go over there and cancel that.

Starting point is 00:34:18 I'm like, 100 bucks a month and I'm just literally lighting on fire. I'm saying. And so, so literally I go, I'm going to do this one day. I was on my way back from here, I'm heading home. I had some time and I'm like, I went to all the gyms, right? So I went to the three gyms that I never use and canceled these memberships. Now here's the fucking ironic part about this.

Starting point is 00:34:35 Literally two days later, I'm trying to get on my Netflix and my Spotify and my ATM card that's attached to all of my accounts just expired. So you don't have to. So it auto-fucking. Oh, you did it for no reason. and my ATM card that's attached to all of my accounts just expired. So you just have to. So it auto-fuckin' You did it for no reason. I waited exactly.

Starting point is 00:34:50 I waited a year, like really like four years or whatever it is and that do actually go at finally cancel these things. Two days later, now I'm back trying to set up my Netflix, my Spotify, I'm like auto and I'm like, oh my god, I could have just not showed up to the, and the gym would have just, you know, you brought some up interesting just not showed up to the gym would have just all that roll off. You just brought some up interesting.

Starting point is 00:35:06 Do you know that the gym industry, you know what, you know how there's a three day cancel policy? Remember we sell membership? Yeah, yeah, it's always three day cancellation. Do you guys realize why? There was a lawsuit over that. California law. Yeah, really?

Starting point is 00:35:18 Bro, the gym industry, when it first became a business, was so shady, it was so shady. It would sell people, memberships knowing they're gonna go out of business in like a month or two. When they knew they were going out of business, people paying monthly. They would offer them,

Starting point is 00:35:32 like this was a classic thing that they do. They'd say, hey, for, I know you're paying 30 bucks a month. This is in the 1980s to say, they'd say, hey, for 200 bucks, you'll have a lifetime membership. You never have to pay again. And they would get all kinds of people giving $200.

Starting point is 00:35:45 Then they show up next month, chains on the door. They also had another, they had another. So you can't sell, this is why you can't sell lifetime memberships anymore. There has to be a renewal fee. So there also was this other lawsuit that happened. I believe, I want to say, I should check this, so I don't want to like shame a gym that's not true.

Starting point is 00:36:00 I think it was in shape city in the valley. I think it was that. Oh, they had a great reputation. So, and what they were doing was, they had like in your contract, if you cancel, there was like massive fees. Yeah. And so you would go to cancel like say after six months,

Starting point is 00:36:14 you know, he's like, yeah, it was like literally more than what the gym members would cost you for like the year. So then people would be like, what? And then, so they were doing that to so many people. And then the way they get away with it was like, oh, it's in the contract. You know, you sign that if you cancel within

Starting point is 00:36:26 X amount of time, you have all these crazy fees. And so they hustled so many people to just keep the contract, keep it going because the cancellation would cost more than paying the year. From one of the largest gym, this is actually brilliant, but also slamming. One of the largest gym chains from the East Coast back used to compete with 24 back in the day.

Starting point is 00:36:43 I don't know if I should say the name. You guys know I'm talking about. Yeah. They used to compete with 24 back in the day. I don't know if I should say the name. You guys know I'm talking about. They used to sell, no, not from that crunch. They used to sell gym memberships and they were all three or every membership was a three-year membership, okay? Now here's how you paid monthly, right for this.

Starting point is 00:36:59 Let's say it cost you nine-hundred bucks for three years. And you'd say, what I want to pay monthly, they had a separate company that would finance your membership. It's no different than financing a car. There'd be an interest rate attached to your monthly payment. And if you missed gym memberships, it would fuck with your credit and you'd come on kinds of crazy shit.

Starting point is 00:37:17 They actually did that. So everything was free paid. They were smart and horrible. They made money on the financing. So now, did you buy the membership? But you made money on the financing. So now, did you buy the members? What are the, but you made money on the financing? What are those companies called? There's, those are, like, we could do that technically.

Starting point is 00:37:30 Like, if we had like our, you could hire a company to find it. Yeah, we could hire a company. Like, let's say we don't have a product that's like a thousand or two thousand dollars, we could hire a company that we, that somebody can make payments on it, but we get the money upfront. That's right.

Starting point is 00:37:42 And then they, and we pay a little bit of interest on it. That's right. So they carry it. That bit of interest on it. That's right. So they carry it. What are those called? Trying to find it. See here. Finance company, I don't know. But I remember people coming in.

Starting point is 00:37:52 So this is how, so 24 fitness back then was not a list. It was, I don't know if it was the first, but it was definitely one of the first that did a month to month cancel whenever you want. Membership. And it was because of this, because people were like, it messed up my credit, it screwed up my whatever,

Starting point is 00:38:08 I couldn't get a home loan because of this. So, mask off, it's like month to month and you cancel whenever, which was brilliant back in the day. It was, nobody did that. Yeah, it was definitely, and getting it down to a price where people would be like, ah, it's like,

Starting point is 00:38:21 people have no idea though. Back in those days, like when the gym industry was taken off, it was so crazy. There were general managers, this is for other companies. I think it was Ray Wilson's family fitness, where the way they got paid was they would get a budget, something like this, right?

Starting point is 00:38:35 They would get a budget for the gym, and they made whatever they saved. I love that. So literally, that's like teaching you had to be a true operator. Oh, they were. So literally general managers would have like like they would work the front ass. They were trained people. They do, you know, they'd bust their ass. And you had general managers, you're talking about the 90s, we're making quarter million dollars a year

Starting point is 00:38:55 running a gym. Yeah. Yeah. Because of it. And that's why so many even quit when the merger happened. So they were like, I'm not so crazy to not do that, I think. I know. I mean, I mean, that would instead of eyes me to do all that stuff, I would, I'm that guy for sure, they'll be like, I'll do that, I'll do that. I'll do the trash out. I'll do that. You had a budget. So I could spend money on advertising

Starting point is 00:39:12 or I could spend money here, I could save money here, and do all that stuff. I think the reason why they stopped doing that is because they were attached to the gym that they were making money off of, and they would run it to a point where they were making, you know, $1,000,000,000,000,000, like no, I'm staying nobody else gonna be able to do it. Yeah, which you want that mobility and I bet there was a lot of Probably shady stuff happening too, where you're just like I'll just not pay for that. I'll do that I don't like there's probably things that like they want you to spend money on

Starting point is 00:39:36 You then you have things slide on some of the maintenance That's unfortunate right? There's probably a like usual a few people that ruined it for everybody else because that would be a way that I mean, I would love to do that. I mean, that's like the coolest that's like the closest thing to it being your gym You know, and then but you have the backing of this big first off if all of us bought a gym today It none of us would want to run it. No, it's too much work. It's just too much work But we would want it right if we put someone in charge that we trusted we know lots of people That's probably what we would do we We would probably tie them to the budget. To the budget.

Starting point is 00:40:06 We would give a model. I 100% we will eventually do a, you know, a Maps gym model out there. And what will happen though is when we, like we're done, I feel like building everything with this. I think that that would be a fun project. It's not, maybe then you'll let me start a supplement company. I will. In the actual care of a gym only. I don't care. I'll be in the house. I'll be in the house.

Starting point is 00:40:26 Do you know I give all my ideas to everyone else? I was, I give my ideas to all of our partners. They get all my brain stuff. I want you to know that Dr. Gabriel Lyon called me after that and actually thanked me for that conversation. She's like, I want you, I want to know like I just, I had no idea about supplements. When Sal said that and you made that comment, and I appreciate it, I 100% would have went that direction. Oh, and start a company? Yes. And she's like, I had, I had,

Starting point is 00:40:52 I thought you were talking about the brilliant idea I gave her. No. Remember I told him to start doing the self-assumption? I'm not gonna say. The reality of the margins. I thought that's what it was. It was what we were trying to do supplements. And I said, don't do that.

Starting point is 00:41:01 She's so, and then she was like, what? And I'm like, yeah, no, absolutely not. She's sad. We want to do it forever. And I'm like, no way. I mean, that's, it's so funny too, because in the space, you know, I don't know. There's something about when people hear gross,

Starting point is 00:41:17 like you say, oh, I got a, I got a $20 million company. That's all they talk about though. They people that end so, you're in the red. Yeah, it's like, would you rather have a 20 million gross company that profits 10 to 15 15 percent margin or a two million dollar company that gets 80 percent more. Yeah, you know, I'm saying it's like think about the headaches a little brainer Yeah, exactly and then you add in the facts who something that's grossing that much There's so many different moving parts. There's probably a lot more employees

Starting point is 00:41:39 You just write a number 10 to 15 percent margin. That's a supplement company that's run. That's very well. Yeah. Run very well. I think it's also important to note that those are companies that have good products. Yeah. Because you have huge margins if you have a guard. Well, and that's the other way.

Starting point is 00:41:56 Well, that's what I mean. It's run very well. So if you point. So a $20 million company will profit you $2 million? Yeah. Or $2.5 million, right? That's a lot of staff, warehouse, purchasing, he will profit you $2 million or $2.5 million, right? That's a lot of staff, warehouse, purchasing, suppliers.

Starting point is 00:42:10 And the more people, the more moving parts, to the more headaches, just period. You know what I'm saying? So I would take significantly less money, I would let that take quite a bit less money with 90% less of the moving parts. Because you have to factor that in. Like at a certain point of making millions of dollars,

Starting point is 00:42:28 the difference between you making more... That's a lot of stress, more profit. Two million dollars or four million dollars, it's double. But it's really... Plus you guys lifestyle is in changing that month. Plus you guys know I push the limits anyway. My supplement company would have, who would definitely...

Starting point is 00:42:40 But that would definitely push the limits. But do you think of supplements and gym is like to two go-to moves. And then the third one, which is hard to get a gym in my money, it no. Well, actually, the four most popular, you just made me list all the worst business. That's crazy.

Starting point is 00:42:55 A peril. Those are the ones that I think they're gonna kill it with. Gym and then membership training. The 999 a month app. The app, you know what I'm saying? 999, like I'm gonna get big as a trainer, I'm gonna get famous, and I'm gonna charge everybody 999 a month app. The app, you know, say 999, like I'm gonna get big as a trainer, I'm gonna get famous, and I'm gonna charge everybody 999 a month. Subscription model.

Starting point is 00:43:09 Subscription model for personal training. All terrible ideas. All terrible ideas. Yeah, it's a brutal model. It's not, and for some reason, and you know, we always, we glom on to the next. You know, we've talked about it right now. And we just talk people into doing it.

Starting point is 00:43:23 Well, I'm different. Yeah. Hey, if'm different. Yeah. Hey, if you're hearing what we're saying, if you're saying you still want to do it, maybe it is for you. I mean, we compare things to like the Netflix model or the example, there's a handful of companies that have proven that model to work and they did it.

Starting point is 00:43:41 And it's like, you know, it's just, it's, okay, I guess if you really believe you're gonna be the one in a hundred thousand that's gonna make that happy. You are. But there's a lot better, there's a lot better. It reminds me of like, what was that data? I think I brought it up on a previous episode, the only fans. The most, the average, actually, the large, huge percent. I remember I was like 90 something percent of people on there make like less than 50 bucks a month. Yeah. You know, but they hear these stories of these girls. Meanwhile, the kids get access to those like their friends are going to see your pictures. Yeah, but you're posting naked. Yeah, weird stuff. Yeah, what was just that? I know

Starting point is 00:44:17 I've heard that stat too. I don't remember exactly. But it's like the vast majority make very nothing almost nothing. Yeah, it's a it's a really small percentage that are or I mean, I mean, think about that when you have that many, that many girls that are competing on there, like you've gotta be literally, really, really unique, especially otherwise, even if someone like, let's say like, they're dudes making money, I'd be curious.

Starting point is 00:44:35 Of course they're. I mean, like, look up, highest paid male only for my model. I wanna see the difference though. By the way, you guys wanna bet, do you think that his number one consumer is women or men? Man, of course. Yeah. No way. No way. No way. Why? Yeah. Why would they? Yeah. Yeah. Dick is free. You can get it. Anyway, the market's flooded. Dick has always been

Starting point is 00:44:54 free. Yeah, dude. So they're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. We're really dumb girl if you're paying for that. Just gonna put it out there, by the way. Now, hi, is there any male in only fans? is hip-hop artists and TV personality, Tyga. Okay, so what some of these, so not every, you're already famous. Not everybody uses only fans. I think you're for new, but even though that's like

Starting point is 00:45:11 80% of the business, it's not all of the business. So a lot of people can use it just because they want to be, what is the top 20? Top 20 mail only fans models. Let's try that. Okay. Cause you're right, because you're famous. Because famous, I guess.

Starting point is 00:45:24 People will pay to have access to rock if he's doing things that, that Cause you're right, cause you're famous. Yeah, because famous, I guess. Yeah, people will pay to have access to rock if he's doing things that could just be just, yeah, to see what he's up to, to lifestyle. Yeah. Not necessarily. What was Tyga's pay? Did he say his income from it? Uh, yeah, 7.69 million a month.

Starting point is 00:45:37 Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. What's he doing? I know, that's not like, sure he's showing news. Seven million a month, he is making off of only fans. Well, let me double check. I wonder, that's not like, you sure you're showing news? Seven million a month, he is making off of only fans.

Starting point is 00:45:47 Well, let me double check. I wonder if it's like all of these. But when I hear stuff like this, it just really highlights like this. Also, why I don't think we're gonna see this big crash and which is just the wealth gap is getting crazy. Yeah, 7.69 million. Wow, dude.

Starting point is 00:46:00 Black China has 20 million a month. She's a female, obviously. Bella Thorne 11 million So Cardi B 9.3 million yeah So anyway, mainly women and I forget what the ratio Andrew you know what it is I know your big. I only fans guy is it like 80% the the creator makes is what He's acting like he doesn't know. He's like, I have no idea.

Starting point is 00:46:27 Stop. Stop, man. Yeah. He's not on the internet, you guys. I thought you said, I think he said only fans was editing software. So we're paying every month. 500 bucks.

Starting point is 00:46:37 We hit everybody in trouble. Oh my gosh, like we've got that, right? There's some guy out there that it's coming on the credit card bill like that. And my God, I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

Starting point is 00:46:50 I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

Starting point is 00:46:58 I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. What if we didn't only fans? Yeah, I think we're missing the mark here. Yeah, what would we do on an only fans? What's the possibility? No, nothing Nothing

Starting point is 00:47:07 I know we're I can juggle yeah Maybe people would pay us just to play the guitar with you know with what? Chaps on oh With you chaps. Yeah, there's a slush chaps You can play the guitar with no hands chaps. We should try that actually. Let's see if we can we can get some money on Okay, I mean we'll do a reverse only fans. I need it in the comments pay how many would you pay money to make Justin stop? Okay, yeah, well, is that that mean? I mean, I wonder how many people maybe get to play harmonica with my how many people make?

Starting point is 00:47:38 Seven figures or more Anually and only fans I wonder what the pull of people, how big the pull is? I think it was really a graph that showed what percentage maybe you're right about that, that's for sure. But I mean, if there's millions people on there that's still like tens of thousands. Remember when they floated the idea they were gonna stop like doing this?

Starting point is 00:47:56 Yes, yes. They were trying to do a public, right? That was why. I think, yeah, that was 300 plus, make a million or more. Only 300, like 300? People. Yeah, 16,000 plus creators earn 50, million or more. Only 300, like 300 people. Yeah, 16,000 plus creators earn 50,000 or more. Okay. How many total, yeah, break that down to, I wanna hear those numbers again.

Starting point is 00:48:12 So 300 plus creators, so around 300 creators make more than a million. That's a year. Yeah, and 16,000 make over 50,000. So somewhere around 50 or above. Right, okay. Yeah, that's okay. So that's not, I mean, that's, that just showed you, you're, highlights your point. Yeah. Yeah. So not, and then how many total free there. That's a good question. Let me see. Yeah. How many there are? Yeah. Cause, I mean, you know,

Starting point is 00:48:36 only 300 are in that crazy number. So that, that number with Tyga is like, he's one of the 300. Yeah. Most of them are famous people already. Yeah, so okay, so hardly anybody's been making it. Yeah, they have 187 million users. Oh. What's that for? Less users though. I don't know what that means. So 2.1 million were content creators. So two million creators, 16,000 of which make 50,000 a year.

Starting point is 00:48:58 Yeah, and 300 make a million. Yeah, so what are your odds of making? Not good. Nothing. Yeah, what is 16,000 of? Plus it ain't random. It's like your odds are there because the numbers are there because of those three or people,

Starting point is 00:49:10 they're all famous, probably, or can do something weird, like what Justin said. Yeah. Yeah, I bet you're right. I bet the 300 are all already famous people that are just putting a whole content on that. So your chance is, it looks like about 0.0015. 0.0015?

Starting point is 00:49:31 No, 0.00. I think that works out to be 0.015% chance of making a million. A million. Yeah. So what are your odds of getting the NFL? They might even be better than that. Yeah. That's actually, I don't know how to get questions.

Starting point is 00:49:46 We have to compare it to other things so people can understand how ridiculous it is to find the way. What is winning the lottery? That's going to be pretty close to winning the lottery. Something like that. No, a lot of it's way worse, bro. Yeah, probably. Yeah, you could get struck by lightning while, you know, playing chess with a shark.

Starting point is 00:50:03 And that's the odds are higher. Yeah, tens of millions by lottery tickets. And sometimes there's not even a winner, right? I mean, but it's in that same category I would say. I mean, obviously lottery is way crazier. But I mean, it's up there in the like the 10, but the differences you buy a dollar ticket, your, you know, your boobies aren't on the internet. Well, that's the point. I think that really sucks is how many people are trying to do that

Starting point is 00:50:25 in hopes that they're gonna do that. And then you'd never do, but yet you put all this stuff out there. Like I mean, if I was guaranteed, right, that I was gonna be one of those 300 or 16,000, or whatever the big ones, right, the 16,000. That was 50,000 dollars a year. Oh, that's what, yeah, fuck that.

Starting point is 00:50:41 I wouldn't do that. For 50 grams? Yeah, no, it'd be needing the million. What is for me? The AI body. You know what I that. For 50 grand. Yeah, no, it'd be needing the million. What is it for me to eat? A.I. body. You know what I mean? Like you just construct it and you put it out there. Yeah, but it's not for you. It's like, but what about your face though? It's still you. Well, let's say somebody does that anyways, like in the future.

Starting point is 00:50:56 Yeah. Wow. A.I. people are going to make only fans. It's getting weird. It's going to happen. You know what else is weird? It's just took a left turn. You know what else is weird? The kid, the three-year-old driving the f- Oh, the one that you were arguing with me about? How is that real? I do not, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, driver. No, no, his dad is a professional race car driver. Yeah. Well, that's the, I mean, I can see what he's doing. He's obviously, he's a talent. What do you do with the three-hole?

Starting point is 00:51:29 You're like, I know. It's crazy. Drive fast in a car. Yeah. What are you doing? He's three years old. He's three years old. That's so crazy.

Starting point is 00:51:37 I mean, he obviously is showing skills. Good, though. He's really good. I don't know. He had him and his dad and they're obviously, they're filthy rich. You can see their house. Yeah. He's, his dad is driving. That they're filthy rich. You can see their house. Yeah, he's he's his dad is driving

Starting point is 00:51:47 That's a private track and the whole deal right? Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I read about it. Oh, yeah So he's driving he's driving in a TV his dad is on two wheels two wheels on the side like this and his son's doing it on his little 50 Same thing. Yeah, they're just around and circle. You know, I can't do that. I've been riding since I was a kid That's crazy. Oh, did you ride a bike when you were three? I don't remember. Yeah, let alone a fucking 18B. I know, this kid has like

Starting point is 00:52:11 his dad has to make a custom car seat so he can reach the pedals of the Ferrari. So it's DNA, dude. That's my son's age. That is wild. That's really crazy. I think he set this kid up for failure. I think that's something that's just eating his burger.

Starting point is 00:52:23 Why do you, bro? What do I do? You do? Yeah, what if the kid never becomes like the best race car? Like, you, you, I don't know. I think it's so dangerous. First off, you're so interesting. We're so different here.

Starting point is 00:52:34 I would so do that. I would totally do that. If my son, because you got to think that. Well, if he crashes, he's dead. Okay, so I always have max around when I'm doing any of this. And I'm back to the very young age. I would drive my truck and when I was parking it, he would stand and grab the steering wheel.

Starting point is 00:52:49 And if I saw that he had this natural kind of ability to do it all on his own, how do you do that, though, at three? How do you know that they have now? They can't reach the pedals. I'm sure he's got video game simulators and things like that. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, he's got some things.

Starting point is 00:53:01 So I'm sure he shows those signs. And then I, and then if I, like my son would be terrified to get out on the, like he has him on a wakeboard too. Did you know how to surf? Max wouldn't even get in the water and even attempt that. So I would never force him to do it. But if he got up there and want, bro, I would, all about it. I would so practice for hours with him.

Starting point is 00:53:21 If he's showing that he's, and obviously you can see the kids not tortured. He's enjoying what he's doing. And obviously you can see the kids not tortured. He's enjoying what he's doing with his dad. He's got big smile on his face and having all kinds of fun. So my son was doing that. I would, oh yes, yes I would. I would totally do.

Starting point is 00:53:33 And if you pull up to stop light, yeah, you can see, you're not gonna race that pretty much. He's got a car seat. I mean, he's a little hit a car seat. I would think like this is a Cippy cap. Yeah, I'd be like, this is an adult with a really strange condition.

Starting point is 00:53:43 There's a video of him. There's a video of him. He's in one of those TRX, you know, a TV's you know those little TRX ones And he's pulling a little mini size like custom made boat and he he's trailing it and he drives it He backs it in okay, first of all, you know how hard it is to back a full to put it down into the smaller a vehicle is okay, And the smaller a trailer is, the more difficult it is to back up straight. So if you've ever driven like an ATV

Starting point is 00:54:09 and like a trailer, a small trailer behind you, it takes a lot of skill to keep that straight because it does just a little bit of play and it should track nice. This kid literally backs up a small trailer like that, which is already hard, gets the boat in, climbs in his boat, takes his boat off, and he's driving the boat,

Starting point is 00:54:24 he's drinking the sippy cup, but he's driving hilarious. Hey, speaking of real, I just read an article where these two kids, they weren't nearly this young, but a 10 and 11 year old got mad at their mom because she took away their devices, their electronics. So they were pulled over on the freeway, they had already driven 200 miles. They were driving to California, run away from mom. They were, I'm 10 in the 11 year old.

Starting point is 00:54:46 10 in the 11 year old. Got pulled over. They had already gone 200 miles away from mom. What? Because she took away their electronics. You want to talk about, first of all, epic story for the rest of your life. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:58 I remember that time I ran away and I drove 200 miles. Yeah. But they, yeah, got pulled them over. Wow. 10 year old. I feel like some kids have that idea, but they would never actually execute. You know, like that's insane.

Starting point is 00:55:08 So I tell you guys, when I tried to run away once, my parents, have you ever tell you that? I was a little, I was a smart ass as a kid. How old would you be? I was a kid, I was a kid. I was probably four. And I was like arguing with my parents, and I'm like, I'm gonna run away.

Starting point is 00:55:21 I remember I said something like that. You make when I was a little hobo, sax. So, hey, so I'm gonna run away. And so my mom's like, I'm gonna call your butt, your bluff, right? She's like, okay, you know, I'm gonna run away. I remember I said something like that. She made one of those little hobo sacks. So, hey, so I'm gonna run away. And so my mom's like, I'm gonna call your butt, your bluff, right? She was like, okay, you know, I'll help you pack. So I'm like, okay, so now it's like, who's gonna win? So she gave me a little suitcase,

Starting point is 00:55:33 and I put toys in my shit, closed it up, and went to the front door, and my mom opened the front, my dad was there too. And they're like, all right, see you later, buddy. They opened the front door, and then I walked out and they closed the front door, and then they looked through the people, right? And I, my parents love telling the story.

Starting point is 00:55:48 I stood there for like 10 minutes, just staying in the front door. I was probably thinking of myself like, fuck, what do I do now? Yeah, where do I go? Yeah. So then I turned around, rang the doorbell again. My mom answered the door, she's like,

Starting point is 00:55:59 oh, what is it? And I'm like, I forgot my jacket. I did the same thing. I didn't even know my jacket. I did the same thing. I didn't even know my jacket. I did the same thing, but I was like, I would say I have more like eight, eight or nine, and what I did was, I said the same thing and my parents, very similar, I was like, go ahead.

Starting point is 00:56:12 And we lived out in the country and we had one of these flat, flat roofs, it was actually like a mobile home that we built that someone built custom house or attached in around it. And so it was like this shitty flat roof. And if you went around the back, you could climb up on it. So me running away was climbing up on the roof. And I made it all the way till dinner.

Starting point is 00:56:32 You know, and then I got really hungry. So I think about like, how am I gonna eat you? I gotta come back to that. So logistics. Yeah, that's the hard part. I'm never coming back home. And there's like, oh my stomach, I'm so hungry right now. You imagine you have a kid that's hard-headed and it's like, oh, I'm actually gonna leave.

Starting point is 00:56:48 You're like, all right, we're gonna play, we're gonna scale this up. When you dress up as a robber, scare him off. Ah! Somebody tried to get me. Yeah, that's what happens out there, you know? Hey, let's shut that kid out. What's his handle, Doug?

Starting point is 00:56:59 Yeah, Zayn's O-Fuoglu. It's Z-A-Y-N-S-O-F-U-O-G-L-U. That must be, it's gotta be his name, because that's weird. Check this kid out. This kid's amazing. Yeah. Sleep is one of the most important factors

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Starting point is 00:58:16 Chris, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Yo, what is up guys? This is wild. Did I expect to start my morning like this? It's very cool. You didn't have an appointment to call it? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:58:26 So, my main question is in regards to maps and a ballic, Sal, I've heard you say in the past that in regards to trigger sessions, your kind of inspiration behind that was noticing people that worked like physical labor jobs, such as mailman having developed calves or mechanics with the forearms. So that was kind of your inspiration for incorporating trigger sessions. So my question was, if you already work a job

Starting point is 00:58:53 that's hyper physical like that, are trigger sessions necessary or is the day-to-day activity of the job actually kind of taking the place of those? That was a good question. Yeah, that's a really good question. So here's the other thing that I noticed. What's your job that we'll click?

Starting point is 00:59:06 Yeah, what do you do? I'm a truck driver, deliver driver specifically. So we'll do like food delivery to restaurants. So on a given day, I'll have between 500 to 700 boxes on my truck in various ways from like 10 pounds to up to 70, 80 pounds. All every box on the truck is unloaded by hand, throw it on a dolly, up and down a ramp into the store back to the trailer until it's empty. So yeah, okay, so how long have you been doing that?

Starting point is 00:59:34 Two years at this specific job, but I've been in this industry for probably like six years between doing this. I worked for a beverage before that, FedEx, so a lot of physical stuff. Chris, do you remember how you felt the day of after work and the day after work when you first started? I would say maybe the first six months to a year. Do you remember how your body felt? The main thing I remember specifically is like sort joints, like elbows, knee pain, stuff

Starting point is 01:00:04 like that, acclimating into it, but now on a day to day basis, I don't really notice it. That's the point. So, you're still sending somewhat of a low level signal. I noticed that for someone your size, your biceps seemed to be pretty well developed. That's probably from loading and carrying boxes. Okay. Trigger sessions provide a low-level muscle building signal, but they don't compare to traditional strength training. Really what they do is they kind of turbo charge or add a little extra. Now, for someone like yourself, here's what ends up happening. Use the right word, acclimate.

Starting point is 01:00:40 You know, I noticed with blue-collar workers that they, after doing it for years and years and years, it becomes just their day to day. They're no longer sore. They don't hurt. Whereas if I go and try and help somebody, if I go with some movers, for example, and help them move a house, people have been doing this for 10 years, I'm going to be really sore after helping them work. And they feel like nothing because their bodies are totally acclimated. So adding additional trigger sessions to your maps and a ballacroutine, probably is going to still have some benefit because your body so acclimated and adapted to what you do. That being said, there's some other things that we want to consider that I think

Starting point is 01:01:18 are more important. Because you have a physical job, even though your body does acclimate, you're still under a little more stress than the average person in terms of your physical stress. Yeah, how's your restaurant going? Now, there's a, I mean, of course stress encompasses a lot of different things, so, you know, somebody could the amount of activity you do, recovery, how you feel, if adding trigger sessions or doing too many days of strength training starts to make you feel like too sore, tired, you start to notice your strength gains aren't coming or maybe even going backwards, you're just doing too much. That would be the main thing to consider, but someone like you who's been doing it for

Starting point is 01:02:04 so long, I mean, you can would be the main thing to consider. But someone like you who's been doing it for so long, I mean, your body's used to it. It's not really, I mean, it's definitely work still, but it's not stressing your body at all, nowhere near like it was when you first started. I think the way I would make this decision on would I do trigger sessions or not, would actually be more on the aesthetic side, right?

Starting point is 01:02:23 I think that you have enough stress, you have enough activity, you're moving the body around, so you're going to facilitate and speed up recovery. So that's all good. Blood flow, oxygen, getting the muscles, nutrients, it's just going to help that because you're moving around so much. You're getting the benefits from that than the average person wouldn't get because they're sitting maybe at a desk job. The only other thing that would make me go, hey, should I add in trigger sessions is if

Starting point is 01:02:44 I had specific areas that I didn't want to target. So let's say you're carrying boxes. So you are probably getting a lot of like bicep and forearm and maybe even a little bit of shoulder stuff. But you know, maybe my back is a little underdeveloped or you know, maybe my chest, you know, so I might do trigger sessions that are just focused on chest flies and back rows. You know, a lot of leg, you're moving up and down with legs, so maybe your legs aren't really underdeveloped. But if they are, then maybe that's, so I would look at specific body parts

Starting point is 01:03:11 that you care about, that you would want. And then that would be the only thing I'm probably triggering throughout the day, because you are getting enough activity that you don't necessarily have to do it, but you still, to Salis Point, you would still see benefit from incorporating them, especially in areas that you want't necessarily have to do it, but you still, to Salis Point, you would still see benefit from incorporating them, especially in areas that you want to develop.

Starting point is 01:03:29 That was, yeah, that was exactly the direction I was thinking, but mainly from a corrective perspective of you continuously kind of reaching in front and having a lot of positional, postural kind of positions where, you know, to counter that with rows and with, you know, let pull downs and get more posterior chain kind of focused, exercise to kind of help complement what you're doing every day, just on a low level intensity. So you get that kind of volume to sort of balance and equate. But yeah, you definitely have to see

Starting point is 01:04:06 because you're already so physically active, I would definitely monitor that in terms of how it's it's overstressing you or you're finding that kind of sweet spot how to compliment. Yeah, the point that Justin's making reminds me of like all the hairdressers or engineers, you know, computer tech people that I would train. They're so rounded forward all day long. So I wouldn't do any trigger stuff on their delts or their packs or anything like that because I already, I would have them do band pull-aparts and rows

Starting point is 01:04:34 to complement all this activity on the full list. There is some definitely value to address that. So those are kind of the, I guess that would be the two things I would look at if I'm used. I'm going, okay, is there things I can do to address, you know, post-rolling balances? Because what I do all day that I could do is my trigger sessions or are there muscles

Starting point is 01:04:52 that I want to bring up and develop more? I'm going to focus on those two main areas. That's how I'm going to develop my trigger sessions. Chris, just for fun, if you wouldn't mind, if you could just stand up and go sideways, so I could look at the side profile of your arm, because I want to point something out. Okay now, so yeah, okay good.

Starting point is 01:05:08 Now stand facing forward and flex your bicep for a second. I want to look at something here. This is getting weird. No, it's not. No, not here like this. I'll hear like this. Take your shirt off. So what you're going to notice going to put your arm down.

Starting point is 01:05:20 What you'll notice is so for the average guy, so typically the tricep is about two thirds of the size of the upper arm. Notice in your arm. It's about one to one or maybe even bicep overpowers a little bit. Also, when you're standing and moving around, for the average person, I don't think this is disproportionate. I think this is the way an arm is supposed to look. But compared to the average person, your forearms are really large compared to your upper arms. So biceps and forearms, that's a direct result of you moving boxes, 100%. You'll almost never see a bicep overpower a tricep on an individual, except for maybe a gymnast or people who carry a lot of things like boxes and stuff like that. So that's a direct result of the work that you're doing.

Starting point is 01:06:06 Now, you know, to back to what they were saying. I mean, you could, if you want from an aesthetic standpoint, you could do more tricep work, more maybe mid back work, you know, areas that you may be not working so much. And then to adjust them as saying, if you do notice certain nagging injuries from the work you do, correctional type exercises would be great trigger sessions.

Starting point is 01:06:26 Yeah, do you have? I do want to point out just the development you've already got from the work that you do. And in fact, if I didn't know you, and I were to look at you and kind of guess what kind of work you did, or if you did physical work, I would guess you did something where you were. There's a reflection.

Starting point is 01:06:41 Carrying things, yeah. Do you have maps prime pro? I do not. I got the summer bundle with like aesthetic, hit, symmetry, and then an abolish. So you're set there. I think those are all great programs to have. I think prime pro for some of the points that Justin was making. So if you start to notice shoulder nagging or elbow stuff that you mentioned

Starting point is 01:07:05 before, anything like that, using the movements that are in there like trigger sessions would be very valuable to you. So we're going to send that over to you. So you have that. I think you've got the right. Thank you for lifting and stuff. But you can use that as like a great reference tool if you have any sort of any of those issues. But really what we talked about the two main things is what I would focus on if I'm you with my trigger sessions. Totally. Okay.

Starting point is 01:07:30 So a quick question in regards like, so I have aesthetic would would your recommendation be to kind of treat my trigger sessions similar to those off days on aesthetic. I don't remember the term for him but target those weakened body parts. Yeah. Or you could do them trigger sessions style. So lower intensity with that. parts. Yeah, you can, or you could do them trigger session style. So lower intensity with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, three times a day, right? Exactly.

Starting point is 01:07:49 Yeah, no, I love the idea of your focus sessions. Like, I would, if I'm knowing you already from what we've talked, like, I wouldn't be doing biceps and probably, like, my front of my delts is like focus. I might do like rear delts and triceps as my main foot, and foot more upper mid-back. Yeah, so like, yeah, I would pick like stuff like that. Probably core, just to stabilize,

Starting point is 01:08:07 help you stabilize with your work. Those are all good, good suggestions. Awesome, I appreciate it, guys. You got it, man. All right, Chris, we're calling in. Thank you. You got it. Isn't that funny though?

Starting point is 01:08:20 You could see, like, oh yeah, rarely do you see a tricep and bicep one-to-one or even larger bicep, but you'll see that with people like that. And then you could see, like, rarely do you see a tricep and bicep, one to one or even larger bicep, but you'll see that with people like that. And then even blue collar, pay attention. If you have a family member who swings a hammer all the time, look at the size of their hands and forearms. I think the mucus are so much there.

Starting point is 01:08:35 To their upper arms. I've seen so many carpenters with like, almost skinny looking upper arms, wire re, right? And then it's like massive form. Oh, yeah, it's like, it's a puppy arms. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:44 That's super crying construction. I mean, that was like my stepdad. My stepdad's forms were the size of his upper arm. Yeah, you got from, it's like a panic. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny though, someone like that, I bet he doesn't feel that way.

Starting point is 01:08:56 He sees himself every day, it's like low level, he's seen over, over. So you don't look at yourself and go like, oh, I got great biceps. He probably thinks that it's not that way. It takes another person from the outside looking in to go like, I can tell by your structure, the development in your biceps is more than it. We're just working on his triceps.

Starting point is 01:09:12 His arms are going to look huge. Yes. That would be in comparison to that. Yeah. When I first started dating Jessica years ago, she was at that time, very into climbing the silks. And so I mean, she was really, I mean, she could pull herself up with just her hands. You're welcome.

Starting point is 01:09:30 And she had a bicep that overpowered her tricep. Her arm had that look to it. And now her obviously is more balanced out because she's, she's trained on balancing it. But you rarely see that, right? Tricep's typically overpower the rest of the arms, like two thirds of the size of the arm. And that's kind of a tell-tale, like, oh, you carry things for a living. Yeah, if it was me it comes from. If it was me in seeing his physique already, and he, if he was running, I'd go chest, triceps. I would do literally triceps or adults, that's it. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:52 That would be like triceps and rear delts is going to address a little bit of the posture stuff. It's gonna build his shoulders up more. It's pretty symmetrical, yeah. Yes, it'll bring his physique really, really together. If he cares about that, if that's something he cares about, those are the two like muscle groups, I would pretty much focus really, really together. If he cares about that, if that's something he cares about, those are the two, like, muscle groups I would pretty much focus on on focus days and or trigger.

Starting point is 01:10:09 Our next caller is Justin from Texas. Hey, what's up, man? How can we help you? Hey, guys, how's it going? Uh, thank you for taking the call. I really appreciate it. Um, before I get into my question, Adam, uh, I just wanted to point out, hey, don't let these guys clown your right.

Starting point is 01:10:23 There's nothing wrong with getting up through your four times in the middle The night sit down on the toilet My guy, but you know what your wife probably loves you two bro. Oh, she does The mess. Yeah, that's a difference between guys like you and I that their wives don't even like He's I can see how they're only with them for the money. I can see how it's convenient because Adam sleeps in a night I have accuracy. It's absolutely easy to pull up the night. Don't that out there guys. Don't that out there. You got it. What you got? What else to get?

Starting point is 01:10:55 So my question, so a little backstory real quick before I really get into the question. So grown up in high school and whatnot, I was kind of a heavy-set kid, wasn't fit in a certain thing like that, but wasn't until I was around 20 years old. Never saw myself doing anything physical. The job I wanted to do, both physical and activity, I had to lose a lot of weight, I was 230 pounds, 5 foot 8 back then, at 20 years old old sub 35% BMI or whatever So I ran lost a lot of weight in about a four month period got down to like 165 Started doing this job got into weight lifting Bolt up to about 180 5 or so wasn't really paying attention to diet or anything

Starting point is 01:11:42 So fitness has been a part of my life now since, you know, I was 20 now. I've been lifting. I kind of considered myself, uh, kind of, I guess, bodybuilder style. Like I didn't care about strength as far as like, I didn't want to be able to bench 300 pounds. I just wanted to look like I could, you know. So I never really cared about that. I didn't really pay attention to diet or anything. Flashboard, COVID, right? Like many of us happened. Things changed a little bit. I was still working out pretty consistently during that time,

Starting point is 01:12:14 but I wasn't paying as much attention to diet and as you get older, I'm 35 now, right? So it kind of seeks up on you. Social drinking turned into more. Well, I'm not social. We going out anymore. So turn into more. Let, I'm not social. We going out anymore. So turn into more, uh, less social drinking by myself. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:29 I'm like, and after a couple of years of that, I kind of snuck up on me. It wasn't until, um, probably, uh, six months ago or so, whereas I got, I need to kind of get the center control, um, discovered you guys. I thought I had a pretty good understanding of working out. You guys completely changed my outlook on that as far as pursuing strength goals and progressive overload. So since then, so I had a metabolic testing done.

Starting point is 01:12:58 A few months back, they had me at around 2,700 calories for maintenance. I was found myself eating around 2300 calories, so I slowly worked my way up going through anabolic. I got up to, I think by the time I ended anabolic, I was at around 2600 calories, went into performance, got up to 3,000 calories. But notice my waistline was starting to grow.

Starting point is 01:13:23 During that time also, we do the bod pod. So I had my body fat percentage check. So just to update, I'm five foot eight. I'm about 230 pounds or those 220 pounds when I did this bod pod and they had me at 33% body fat. So I guess my main question is, so taking diet and stuff into control, so I completely cut alcohol out of my diet over the last couple months, which was more challenging than I care to admit.

Starting point is 01:13:55 And so since then, I'm paying attention to my diet. I've been, my lives have gone up exponentially. I guess I'm just curious, how far should I keep pushing the calories and stuff and pursuing these strength goals before I start taking body fat things into a town as far as like cutting, like doing mini cuts or whatever. Let's address that first.

Starting point is 01:14:17 Yeah, it's a guy. You know, I got to address your, I don't think you're 30% body fat. That doesn't seem right at all. That doesn't sound right. No, you stand up for me and I'm doing this again, but it's just so we're gonna make it every last color. I don't think you're 30%.

Starting point is 01:14:31 You look Mike, you might be in the 20s, but you ain't 30%. That's strange. Anyway, okay, so how long should you go on this kind of reverse? Typically, what we say is you want to get to a point where you feel like you can come from. Okay, so you say so get it. It's hard to eat more food. Yeah, we like okay.

Starting point is 01:14:50 I think I could cut 500 calories or 800 calories and I think I could sustain that. That's where you typically want to get. I have a couple questions before you give. Where do you think you're at steps wise? Have you tracked like I'm curious which your movement throughout the day looks like? Do you have a sedentary job? Are you active? No, so it's a mix between sedent.

Starting point is 01:15:10 So I teach. So when I'm teaching, I'm very engaged in moving around. I purposely get at least 10,000 steps today, but on average, especially on days when I'm teaching, which is at least four to five days a week, I'm averaging around 16,000 steps. That's what I want.

Starting point is 01:15:27 That's what I want. Okay, so that gives me a little bit more information. So based off of that, your size, your lifting, I actually would want you definitely get up your calories to a higher point before we cut. That's a good amount of movement. You're a good size, dude. We should be at least getting up to like 3,500 calories before we come back the other direction. So that's a good generic number, but really the way to look at it is how you feel, right?

Starting point is 01:15:50 Like what Sal was kind of alluding to, which is let's keep trying to build strength, build your metabolism up, add calories. So you get to a place where you're kind of like, man, this is, this is a lot of food. This is, I don't even like eating this much food. Now that's a natural time to come back the other direction. So I, or you could also interrupt these, you know, reverse dieting with many cuts. So let's say you've been slowly creeping the calories up and you've been doing that for the last say two months and you haven't, even though you're not to 3500 calories yet, you haven't interrupted

Starting point is 01:16:22 it with like a week or two week cut and do that for a week or two and then go right back to Trying to get back up again and just kind of playing that game is every four to six weeks interrupt with like a two-week Cut then go four to six weeks and then cut and just kind of keep doing that until You've reached a place where you're eating probably 3500 calories or so or reach you a place where you're like That's a lot of food now. I want to go the other direction. And along the way, if we do this correctly, you should actually be able to slowly increase calories and feel like you're leaning out a little bit because you're interrupting with this cut.

Starting point is 01:16:55 That would be my prediction if we did this right. That's exactly how I would do it. I mean, if you haven't done like a cut or a shortcut in a little while, I think that's a good idea to do something like that. And so what Adam's essentially telling you to do is a step ladder kind of approach where you bump calories, maintain for a little bit, drop down for a bit, and then do it again, bump, maintain for a bit. I like a two to one or three to one ratio of slow reverse to cut. So you could do four weeks, six weeks, and then like a week or two, two weeks of a mini cut.

Starting point is 01:17:29 And a mini cut is literally a few hundred calories below maintenance. You don't need to do anything more than that. And I think that would be the best strategy at this point. So if I get it up to like, say, 3300 calories and my maintenance is like 27, so if I'm bulking and I get up to 33 when I go to do my mini cut, just dropping down is like 27. So, if I'm bulking and I get up to 33 when I go to view my mini cut,

Starting point is 01:17:47 just dropping down to like 25. Your maintenance, if you're at 3300 calories, and you're not gaining any weight. That's your maintenance. So, let's say you're at 3300, and you're doing it for three, four weeks, and the weight is not changing on the scale. That's your new maintenance.

Starting point is 01:18:01 Yeah, remember, your maintenance is changes all the time. Yeah, and you only need to go, so when you're in a quote, unquote bulk, and by the way, I think you said that you got that number from the bod pot or one of those things, I care more about you tracking consistently than I give a shit about those machines.

Starting point is 01:18:16 Those things are fucking never really that accurate. They're a good place to start and give you an idea, like, okay, so I should be around 27 or 2800 calories. That's fine. The real thing I want to see is what calories can you eat and not gain or lose weight? That's, and it should be somewhere around that numbers between 26 and 3000 based off of where you're at. So I'd want to find that first.

Starting point is 01:18:39 And then a bulk for you is only reversing 250 to 500 calories at most higher than that. And then a cut would be 250 to 500 below that. And that's kind of how you would toggle between them when you're when you're in a bulk, you're 250 to 500 above, when you're in a cut, you're 250 to 500 below. And you're just kind of doing that ladder approach like sourcing. And I love the like like six weeks than two, six weeks than two and kind of go that way, but four and one is fine also Okay, and then as far as training so I'm like at the this is like my second time running through in a ball I'm at the end of I'm about to finish space three right now the last week and then I was planning on jumping into powerlifting after that I like and then maybe

Starting point is 01:19:21 Deadic after that or maybe symmetry to interrupt one of those. I like all those choices. You did say you've ran performance, so you've addressed some mobility stuff. I would consider doing symmetry to go, I love PowerLift Necks and then maybe symmetry after that to interrupt it, then go to aesthetic. I think that would be a good choice. What do you think, Justin? Yeah, I think symmetry after PowerLift. Do you have symmetry?

Starting point is 01:19:45 I don't have symmetry. That's why I was going to go into a static after that because I got the maps. Well, we'll send you symmetry. So we'll send symmetry on us. But I like the idea of the power lift staying focused on the building strength. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:00 Because you just went through the mobility and I'm sure you got some value out of that. And getting back to just ramping up your your your force output. I think it's gonna do you a lot of good for building muscle. Yeah To me, I love I love Anna-Balk in Powerlift when I'm trying to like build a metabolism with a client Yeah, just a really those are really good strength-based programs and that's a great place to be mentally when you're trying to reverse diet And that's a great place to be mentally when you're trying to reverse diet. So I love that strategy. And then after that, I like the idea of running like a symmetry between aesthetic.

Starting point is 01:20:31 Yeah, I will say so performance. It wasn't my favorite. I need to do more of it, right? But I will say after doing performance, I kind of got through that. And then when I started Annabelle, I began phase one. We talked, I heard you guys talking to this before, but there's some days you go out of the gym and I threw the weight on to deadlift. And I was like, Oh, more, oh, more. And I added like, damn near

Starting point is 01:20:52 50 pounds, just a brief break. So that's awesome. Don't sleep performance for the listeners up there. Keep that in mind. Since you have the self awareness to know that about yourself, like that's, I'm like you I mean sounds like we have some things in common where that's not my style lifting But that I'm always like aware of like okay. I've been away from that for a while. Make sure you cycle back there You know at least once a year you're getting back into a program like that because it will always benefit you I appreciate that one last thing before I before I go. I just I appreciate your guys's content

Starting point is 01:21:24 And I know you guys are always trying to push out like ways of correlating information how fitness is a journey so something that was taught to me back when I first got into the field that I work in Mentor explained to me once. He's like going to school and stuff You kind of learn that there's an alphabet and then if you these alphabet makes sounds and you can put these letters together to create words and You can put words together to create sentences, right? And then as you go on through your journey and you start learning more, you realize, I go, I can put sentences together to create thought and paragraphs. And then as I learn more, I can create an entire book worth of knowledge.

Starting point is 01:21:59 And I know that was something that always stuck to me as I've gone through my career and sounds like you guys kind of fitness. I never really gave much credit to being something like that, but definitely the more I've learned, the more I've realized that that tends to be the case. So I appreciate what you guys do up there. Oh, great analogy. Yeah, thanks Justin. Yeah, thanks guys. Take it easy. All us justins with the analogies. Yeah, this is better than mine. I don't know. Sometimes those body fat readings are so weird, you know,

Starting point is 01:22:29 like 40% body like that. In both directions too, like I've never been able to wrap my brain around why Katrina always tests abnormally weirdly low, like so low always. Like I've, she's always tested, I've told you guys this, like 10 to 12% body fat, and I've done like every method with her. And like, and controlled all these things. So just sometimes they're just for some people.

Starting point is 01:22:51 Well, the calculations, I don't know, I think underwater wing might be different, but the calculation, I mean, I've done that too with her. I know, it's weird. That's why it's, I'm like, the calculations on calipers, for example, are based off of cadavers. So they know what a general body fat percentage is on a human

Starting point is 01:23:08 whose bicep, triceps, sub scapula can actually scoop and out like weigh it. They literally remove the fat from the cadaver. Well, that's what they say. They're the most accurate way is to do that, right? But you're not that strong. Plus, remember what Dr. Gabriel Lyon told us? He's the quality of muscle.

Starting point is 01:23:24 You know, the biggest takeaway from something like that to me, though, is like, this is why the number doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if it is 35. What matters is, did he go from 35 down to 30 now? Or did he go from 30, a downward trend? Yeah, it really, it does not matter. People get hung up so much on what these machines and things are telling them, and everybody wants to argue with it.

Starting point is 01:23:44 Like, they're very, very valuable tools. So I think the thing is, you don't just throw them out because it's inaccurate to you because what they are good is measuring the difference of change based off of the variable. And that's how you use that. 100%. Our next caller is Aaron from Texas.

Starting point is 01:24:01 Aaron, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Oh, guys, I appreciate it. Well, first, I've already helped me a whole bunch. I mean, pretty much saved my life almost. So growing up, I've been playing sports since I was two, baseball, basketball, football, tennis, pretty much. I mean, just nonstop outside.

Starting point is 01:24:22 But since then, the one thing that was kind of never, I guess, relate to me, was the importance of strength training and kind of just like having muscle to do stuff. And so over time, it's gotten me super bad imbalances between my ride and left side, I'm right side dominant. I was a pitcher in baseball so super forward shoulders, but my imbalances got so bad that my left side, my jaw would lock. I couldn't open my mouth for probably more than an inch at times. I'd have to like,

Starting point is 01:25:00 like push the bottom of my jaw just to be able to open it to eat food at some points. Never really like used my left side for anything so I didn't have like too much mobility. So I go from right side, I feel like it's super forward, left side, kind of nothing. My, I guess obliques right side, you can kind of feel, I have, you know, muscle definition. Left side is like super squishy. It doesn't help that I clean pools now, so I've been cleaning pools for about three years. That probably doesn't help it. I've also lost, I lost over 100 pounds from I got really sedimentary. I worked at a Jimmy Don's for about nine years and Kind of slowly gained weight gain weight. I was always the person to I could eat a lot

Starting point is 01:25:53 But I didn't ever really feel like I would gain weight, you know Until I was actually like not moving and then it hit me. I still play competitive softball and So I would just constantly be getting hurt, be getting hurt. It's my lower back mainly, lower left side. And until I actually, I listened to you guys for about a year now and I actually like, I don't know, clicked. They're like, maybe I should start work now.

Starting point is 01:26:18 Like, actually hitting everything. I feel like my CNS is never, everything I do, I feel like I just couldn't get the form, like, you know, at the beginning to go through and really connect everything. So I would slightly work out, then I'd take some time off, slightly work out, take some time off until actually just recently, I actually started too. I went through anabolic, kind of ran it through almost all the way through, but it was super lightweight because, you know, like I said, left and right side.

Starting point is 01:26:51 And when I would do dead hangs, I'd hang for a bit and I'd kind of get to just opening everything up. I'd kind of do some twist, I'd do some like, you know, flopping, just kind of listening everything up. And when I'd come down, my left side just, it's opened up. But man, there would be so much like pain to just try to stand up. Like I'd want to like, I don't know, fall down. So for the longest time, I feel like everything was so closed in until I've

Starting point is 01:27:19 really started to put an emphasis on, you know, getting my shoulders open, opening my chest when I do everything. And that's helped a whole bunch. I think that's helped with a lot of my, I've had constant sinus issues since I was little, just feels like nothing could drain on my head, has always had so much pressure. So now that I've started to kind of moving this,

Starting point is 01:27:40 you know, kind of more so know what to do, but it's kind of the Where to go now I was Wondering about symmetry, but actually just the last day of the sale. I purchased it And I I did I think one day of it just to see kind of how it was, but I guess the main question is is I'm trying to figure out bands I guess the main question is, is I'm trying to figure out bands, I guess bands suspension or symmetry, I feel like for me to get started would be the way to go,

Starting point is 01:28:12 just to try to help get my CNS and everything kind of more together to then be able to go and, you know, lift, be able to lift heavy weights, I guess without hurting, is where I'm trying to get out. Aaron, you're going to live in map symmetry and the not the last face for like a year. And skip the last phase. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:28:31 I figure. Okay. So literally follow map symmetry, follow all the phases, except for the last one and cycle through it and cycle through it. And it's going to be at least a year, at least of that kind of training for you to balance yourself out. I mean, we're talking about years and years and years and years.

Starting point is 01:28:48 So you got to unpack. So yeah, so I've been going, before I started listening to you guys, I have a really bad habit, but I think for me it's a super good habit. A whole bunch throughout the day, I'm constantly, like I would sit in my truck, so I'm in my truck working right now.

Starting point is 01:29:05 But sit here and push, try to like, you know, get everything straightened, push, but also have my shoulders back. I used to not be able to do it with my left side. It would, I, so I can feel, I want to say I have a wing scapula on my left side because I can get it to, I guess, click back in. And I'll do this, like at home, everything. I'll, you know, get everything, post your right shoulders back. And I'll do, like, you know, these just to open everything up. And I'll go through and like, get, like the clipping, not, I guess, not clipping.

Starting point is 01:29:38 That's not the right word. But it feels like it's kind of going back into place. And so I'll do that and kind of do some isometric holds. And so I think that has already helped a whole bunch of been doing that for probably about a year, year and a half now. Every time I go home and I'm kind of in the living room, I'm doing like something, you know, to just work on getting my posture open because I mean, I think we should, I think we should give you help me. Prime pro also. Absolutely. So I think we should, I think we should give you, obviously help me. Prime pro also. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 01:30:06 So I think you should live in symmetry, like Sal said, and sense it, and your idea of what you're doing, you're on the right track. I think we're gonna give you things that are more specific though. Like so you're, you're a concept of like doing it in the top kind of, and being aware of it

Starting point is 01:30:21 and kind of, and doing this all the time. So I want you to go through Prime Pro and assess all, and we're obviously mainly focusing on the upper body stuff with you. I'm sure you're hips and some of that, but I would, with what you got going on, being a baseball player, tennis, all those things, and so dominant on the right,

Starting point is 01:30:39 I would focus on all the upper body type of Prime Pro exercises. And a lot of those you can, you can do those, you know, outside or when you're between jobs or stopping it against the wall and do some things, like a lot of those things that you can just practice. That is what I do. Yeah, brother, that's good.

Starting point is 01:30:55 That's good, that's good that you do that. And so between that and symmetry, you're gonna, and, you know, we did say stay out of the last phase. I would allow you if you were my client, a workout or a week of bilateral stuff, meaning like the final phase of, just so you could feel how you're progressing. Like, oh wow, that, like,

Starting point is 01:31:14 every round that you go through symmetry. Just moderate intensity. Yeah, just go do a light round, or the light week of those exercises, just to see like, oh wow, this is feeling better or I'm getting better at this. I think there's some value in just testing so you can see your progress. And that way it's motivating to like keep coming back and working on it. I think a good goal for you to like, so yeah, obviously going through symmetry and then

Starting point is 01:31:40 prime pro really addressing like your overall functionality of your shoulder. Like there's a lot there that you need to teach your shoulder again to be able to function properly and reconnect to a lot of those muscles to be able to stabilize it and pack it and all that kind of stuff. A good goal in terms of throwing one exercise I want you to work on exclusively is the windmill. And it's going to be insanely difficult on one side. Oh, that one. Yeah, it's so just because of everything you're describing.

Starting point is 01:32:11 Yeah, I've started to do that. So I go to the gym fairly often. It used to be a 24, and then it turned into a Texans Fade, and then a EOS. And so I like to go three to four times a week, at least I try, I've been so busy lately. My clean pools and I go coach gymnastics in the evenings. So when I have time, I like to go,

Starting point is 01:32:32 but I do strictly, like, you know, kind of this stuff, more like, corrective exercises instead of going in and like, lifting weights. But every now and then I'll go in and mainly I'll do some, if I lift, compound lifts lifts it's some bench press some squats and some Overhead presses, but really it and it finally clicked honestly like two two days ago. I finally got Try the best I've ever had my kind of my I guess range of motion because I feel like my my ribs on my left side is a little bit flared and I'm assuming that's from my

Starting point is 01:33:08 I call it a wing scapula I don't I'm never actually going to see if that's what it actually is But so then I'm you know, and I can finally like actually feel like I'm doing like all the exercises the right way So I know I'm just I'm in the right There ain't any progression it's I guess figuring out There's a few there's a few steps here. So well first thing I want to say when you do symmetry Let your weaker side dictate the weight in the reps. Okay, so always always start with the weaker side If you're only doing 15 pounds for 10 reps with perfect form on your left

Starting point is 01:33:42 Then that's what you do on the right even though it's easy. And you're going to keep training in symmetry for, like I said, for a year, because what's going to happen, the steps are better control and connection. That's, you're starting to notice that now. And then, then the muscle development comes. Okay, so you can have to stay there for a little while, even if it feels connected. Keep train, because look, we're trying to undo decades of unilateral or, you know, one, you know, one-sided type of training or exercise or movement. And then the windmills are good for the QL, like you're mentioning pain in your right under your, what's called the sacrily act joint. So you can look that up, SI joint, that's probably where you're feeling it. And I agree with Justin, it's probably has to do with yeah, probably has to do with your QL right your your QL muscle is probably a weakness and instability there

Starting point is 01:34:31 So map symmetry Live in there. That's it. Don't do anything else for at least a year and you should see significant All of us will be solved with strength and that's what we're trying to build and develop on that size. You have to exclusively just surrender and be 100% in on working on that side and that's dictating what your other side does. It's also probably a good strategy. It's also probably a good strategy to not be doing this in a major cut or anything and to be more focused on maintenance to a slight surplus because we're trying to build muscle. You don't want to be on the massive level. That's another thing too.

Starting point is 01:35:06 I'm not, after I lost, so I guess I lost the hundred and so pounds, not so, not fully healthy, kind of healthy, but not really healthy. I would never like trying to lose it, but I started working at Amazon. Some constantly, you know, delivering packages all day, wasn't eating very much. And then that actually clipped to, then I would start eating more. My main go- my my go-to's were like chipotle twice a day. But now I've actually, I guess, kind of cut down. I don't know if I'm in a cut, but I've got my protein

Starting point is 01:35:45 actually up. I've been shedding a whole bunch recently, so I'm down a whole bunch of body fat already, but now I'm aiming, I guess I still eat like, intuitively. I have the creatures I have in the morning, and then I mainly do ground beef, rice, and veggies, or steak, veggies veggies and rice. There's no way for us to have those.

Starting point is 01:36:07 Well, there's no way for us to know. Are you made? There's no way for us to know if, you know, your calories and stuff are just, you know, based off what you're saying, but I think what Adam's saying is, don't try it either. Yeah, try not to intentionally lose weight

Starting point is 01:36:18 is the goal here. That's the main thing. So if you're, don't try to lose weight or cut. Just eat the way you are, hit your protein targets, live in symmetry, the first few phases, skip the last phase, and by the end of the year you should see a significant improvement. I mean, the answer is simple.

Starting point is 01:36:34 It's not easy though, because it's going to take some time. It's tough, but it's going to work. 100% will work as long as you're consistent. Yeah. And I'm, I guess the other thing too is certain body parts. I guess I'm not so sure which side is more dominant because through, obviously I'd assume my right side is, but then I went into quite a bit of a phase where things were scary, you know, all this equipment to the back guards. So I would switch over to my using kind of my left arm to do it. But maybe that is I'm assuming why my oblique on my right side is so much more dominant

Starting point is 01:37:15 than my left side because I wasn't using my right hand because then I didn't want to if it even makes sense. Don't overthink your left kind of my assumption of why I'm not. Start with the left. Start with the left oblique, isn't it? Yeah, start with assumption of why I don't know. Start with the left. Start with the left. Oh, bleak, isn't it? Yeah, start with the left. That's your weaker side. Yep. Yeah. Start with the left. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. Thanks for calling in brother. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. You got it, man. Bro, have you guys ever worked with someone? I've had this client a dozen times. It's super. I mean, he's a great person for the audience

Starting point is 01:37:46 to hear us talk to live because he's an extreme version of what kind of happens to so many people. You know, he's a very extreme and so it's very obvious. But this is going on with a lot of clients where they just have a dominant side and they have little nagging pains here and there they can never figure out. It's just a very. But for athletes pictures sports pictures. So I trained I trained a senior in high school to throw 90 miles an hour It was he threw heat. Wow. Never did any strength trainer any balancing and was pitching forever And I mean you could look at him and see the structure to the point where I think even his bones on his right side We're thicker and more dense And I had almost exclusively trained,

Starting point is 01:38:25 trained him unilaterally, focusing on the weaker side, using that to dictate things, because it was profound. Well, the hard part is addressing someone, like if he was like in like 20, and he's in the middle of playing his sports, well, that's a different subject. Yeah, you know, like,

Starting point is 01:38:42 there's start to impact, because you can't really, you can't impede on his actual performance because he's mastered this pattern, right? And so, yeah. So for him, he's interested in health and not feeling pain and being able to carry on with his work, you know, without being affected too much.

Starting point is 01:38:59 Yeah, it's a good message for parents though with kids who play sports is, you know, try to balance them out because if they do the same thing over and over again Especially a sport where that dominates one side It results problems later. Yeah, that's why it's it's I mean every world-class coach of talk to is like you know It in terms of like young kids need to play multiple sports So it definitely has a way of kind of working that way out our next colors Luke from Michigan look what's happening man? How can we help you? Hey guys how we doing? Thanks for having me on. Good man. What's that man?

Starting point is 01:39:29 Man, well first off, I've got to say, thanks for all that you guys do. I've been listening for probably five or six years now. Wow. So I've been listening to you guys a long time. Yeah, it's crazy. I'm like seeing you guys right here. So yeah, thanks. But yeah, just give you guys a quick background. Former athlete played a small college over here in Michigan, ended two years because of too many concussions, but ended up transferring, going into pre-physical therapy, decided to do some training on the side

Starting point is 01:40:01 to paper college all that kind of stuff. But I've been training ever since. I ended up taking that as a full-time position. Or I guess it was a full-time trainer for about six, seven years, nutrition coach, whole nine yards. So, you know, helped a lot of people. I guess my question is, you know, I've tried bulk cuts, the whole nine yards. Obviously I'm training, I've helped a lot of people, like I know the whole deal with

Starting point is 01:40:39 all of that. I just can never seem to figure it out for myself. You know, I'm 27 now. I got a seven month old, got a new house coming up here. So I know like the stress and everything can add to that. But right now I'm at 207 probably around 16% body fat. I probably have to say, and just want to get under 200. if not, you know, 190, loose some body fat and just kind of get underneath those numbers a little bit. So I guess that would be, I guess my official question would be, because again,

Starting point is 01:41:15 I've done the calculator. I've done a couple calculators now where it says about 3000 cows, you know, Adam, I know that you touch on, you know, way in the food and whole night and all that kind of stuff. So I've weighed the food. I know what I'm eating and usually I'm not about 27, 28. I'm still lifting, you know, at least three,

Starting point is 01:41:40 if not five times a week. I'm usually full body. And yeah, I just can't, if anything, I'm gaining weight. So just wanted to kind of ask you guys, you know, your opinion on that. Yeah. So this is, um, when you get to a certain body fat, 16% 15% is not bad. That's an athletic body fat percentage. It's a healthy body fat percentage. Now to start to get below that, genetics aside, right? Cause some people can maintain the leader of body fat

Starting point is 01:42:11 than others. But for most guys, when they start to try to get below around 15, they overshoot or they start to under-shoot. Okay, so what you need to do is really be consistent with your tracking. Cause you gave us an idea, but you need to do is really be consistent with your tracking, because you gave us an idea, but you need to be really consistent for like two weeks to get exact numbers, and then literally hit macros

Starting point is 01:42:34 on a regular consistent seven day basis, and then see what ends up happening, because my guess is, and this happens very common, where you'll be like, okay, I'm gonna start eating a little bit less, I'm gonna eat in this range, and there might be a day or two where you'll be like, okay, I'm gonna start eating a little bit less, I'm gonna eat in this range. And there might be a day or two where you're the loft and not realizing how much that makes an impact on the whole thing.

Starting point is 01:42:52 I mean, a 15% body fat or so, if you're off for a day or two, you're just gonna maintain. To get leaner at this point, you gotta be very consistent with the calories. So do you know that the story you're sharing, it's actually almost identical, like, except for, let's see here, how much, how much you weigh right now?

Starting point is 01:43:10 You're about 207. Okay, so you're a little bit thicker than I was, but right around this time is about 25 when it happened for me. I had this exact issue, and I've told the story on the podcast before, where I could not wrap my brain around, why can't I get like, and I literally, this is actually what drove me to using steroids

Starting point is 01:43:31 because at that point in my life and career, I really thought this has to be the only difference between me and those covers of magazines because I got all the... I have to eat it. That's crossed my mind. Well, I mean, I'm gonna go that far, but do you think? I mean, that's totally what I thought.

Starting point is 01:43:44 I really believed at that time that all these guys on covers of magazines, the only difference between them and me is they've taken steroids. I haven't taken steroids. And so it's got to be that. What happened though was this is around the time when the body bug came out and it was a tracker. So I was now getting back feedback data, day to day, every single day consistently. And it really blew my mind. The difference of my calorie expenditure

Starting point is 01:44:12 and my calorie intake on my off days compared to workers as a trainer, you know, you're pretty damn active. You're lifting, you know, barbells, dumbbells all day, helping clients, you're moving. Man, my my calorie burn on work days versus my off days, well, there was a massive discrepancy. And I in my head, I'm like, I'm 95% dialed on my diet and training. Why am I not seeing it? But what I thought was like a 5% was a much bigger number than I realized until I started to track that diligently.

Starting point is 01:44:45 And then the next thing to South's point, then it was really about stringing consistency together of like, okay, now I have a better understanding of, I was not burning as much. And if I was falling off the diet or not being perfect on that one or two days, it was like the worst day I could do it. And it would make up the difference.

Starting point is 01:45:02 And it would be just enough to keep me at that 15 to 17 percent. Like I could stay again like you healthy, healthy, finish, but I couldn't get shredded. I couldn't get jacked looking and it was like driving me crazy. And it was I had never figured out to that level like, oh my god, this is what every day looks like consistently for me. And then it was literally about stringing days together. I've told this story too, like something that worked for me was, okay, I'm gonna have as many perfect days of eating in a row. And then let's say, I strung nine of those together and then I had a little mishap

Starting point is 01:45:36 where I was off a little bit. Okay, start over. Now the new goal is can I get 10 or more days and then I got to 13 fell off. So, and then I just kept doing that until I could say, hey, I just strong three months of perfection. And of course, that's when I started to see myself get leaner and leaner and leaner and more shredded.

Starting point is 01:45:55 And then I had the tools. And then I figured out, okay, now I know how to do this. Just to give you an example, Luke, like let's say you're at a calorie deficit Monday through Friday of 300 calories, okay? You're very consistent. You brought your meals to work. You're eating the same thing.

Starting point is 01:46:09 300 calorie deficit Monday through Friday and then Saturday and Sunday, you know, you're a little looser. You try to pay attention to your protein, but you're not really tracking anything. Very, very easily, very easily got your size. Could go 700 to 800 calories above maintenance. Easy, super easy. The point where you won't even notice unless you're tracking.

Starting point is 01:46:27 Well, now what you're at is zero for the week. You literally just made up the difference. And what will happen is you'll maintain. And for most people, most guys, if they're healthy and fit and they strengthen training and they don't eat terribly and they eat good protein and they generally avoid heavily processed foods. They're going to naturally, which is what's happening to you, sit at around 15%.

Starting point is 01:46:50 That's a great place to be to maintain, live your life. You're probably enjoying your life. You're still consistent with your workouts. You eat mostly healthy. You do your job. It's not a big deal. But now you want to drop down another 4% or 5%, you want to get a 6% pack, get down to 10%. It's a lot harder than a lot of people realize, not necessarily the steps, but the consistency. 10% body fat, which is probably what you're aiming for, where you see your abs and you have a 6 pack or whatever. 10% body fat is seven days a week consistent, which is this.

Starting point is 01:47:21 It's literally one day, it's probably one day a month where you're off to be at 10% to maintain that That's this for most people. So that's that's probably what's happening You also mentioned you had some gut stuff some gut issue stuff going on. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to touch on that too But before I get to that I I feel like I have honestly been pretty consistent like even throughout the weekend You know, I don't drink anymore. I'm still tracking on the weekend, eating clean, rice, quinoa, sweet potatoes, you know, meat, whole nine yards. And now granted, again, probably to your eyes point,

Starting point is 01:47:59 you know, or to the south where you just said, you know, it takes kind of that one day, right? And obviously, you know, life hits and we all kind of have that one day. So yeah, I could probably clean up in that area. But yeah, to go back to the gut stuff, man, I've been, you know, I found out, and this is from a previous episode that you guys did. You're macro, I think it was actually the macro masterclass where you have to figure out kind of what works for your body. And I know for me, if I load up on carbs, like if I'm trying to do like, you know, super

Starting point is 01:48:31 heavy lifts or whatever, and I want to, man, does it pay? Now I have done seed. I've been seeding now for probably three, four months. And I actually just started doing AG1. I heard that on Cuberman's podcast. So I've been doing that kind of at night just to get some of those greens in as well. And that's helped. I just I was curious to see especially listening to Dr. Cobraa's podcast as well to see if that has to do with with any sort of like body fat loss or anything like that as well, to see if that has to do with any sort of like body fat loss or anything like that

Starting point is 01:49:07 as well, like anything is off in that regard. Yeah, I don't make it harder for you. You're not going to simulate the same. You'll be a little more inflamed. Think about this too. Maybe we have that one day here and there off, then you're in your deficit, but sometimes you're in too much of a deficit in relation to how much stress you have in your life. So even when you lose three to five pounds in the scale,

Starting point is 01:49:28 you lose a ratio of 50-50. You lose just as much muscle as you lose fat so the body fat percentage doesn't really change for you. And you add in the fact that maybe I have some underlining gut issues that are going on and so that just compounds the stress issue. So then when my body should be building muscle, it's not, it's being prioritized to trying to heal and fix what's going on in my gut. So it could

Starting point is 01:49:48 literally be just a handful of these little things that are compounding enough to just keep you from getting to that next level because we got to keep in mind. Again, you're in this kind of healthy place, but also know what it's like to be here, but want more. I want to get to the next level. What is it? And it could be these little things. It's like when you cut, you cut too much and it's too much stress and you're losing as much muscles fat. When you, when you over consume, you weigh over consume and it's enough to cancel your deficit out. You have underlining little gut issues that are going on and so you add that with having a kid and building a house and work life. And so then your body's not recovering the way it should.

Starting point is 01:50:25 So then when you're in a surplus and trying to build muscle, it's not building it like it should. And so you could have a whole bunch of little things that are just keeping you from breaking through to that next level. And that's really, really good. What does your training look like these days? Like what are you doing for weight training?

Starting point is 01:50:42 Yeah, so I never, guys, I never got into like the bros splits, like just day and back day and all that kind of stuff. I I pretty much started doing full body from day one. So typically how I like to split it up is, um, you know, full body push, I'm like day one where it's maybe more of an upper body focus. That's where I'm hitting You know shoulder press bench press and maybe like some lunges and then next day would be full body pulled Kind of more of a leg focus from hitting my deadlifts, but maybe I'm doing You know some pullovers or something as an accessory.

Starting point is 01:51:25 And then Wednesday is more of like a mobility, honestly, probably skip day, let my body recover. Third day is then my full body push again, but maybe a little bit more leg heavy again, where it squats and you know, things of that nature and then you know, some dumbbell work for the upper body. And then Friday would be my full body pull, upper where I'm doing my pull ups, things of that nature.

Starting point is 01:51:55 So I feel like I'm hitting everything throughout the week, but that's kind of another thing. I got so desperate, well actually, so I'm not trained anymore. I'm in MedSales now, so my steps are non-existent anymore. So that's kind of where I went from like that 3,000 to like maybe like that 2700, trying to aim for that every day. But I got pretty desperate. Well, I kind of got everybody else like when I talk to my clients, it's like, hey, you know, just come train with me. I'll just tell you what to do. You know, it's that easy use,

Starting point is 01:52:28 right? And so one of my buddies I play football with, he was a coach at a CrossFit gym down the road. So I'm like, dude, you guys are shredding. I'm sending it, screw it. I take CrossFit for like but I did crossfit for like nine months. And I tell you what, that beat me up. I have never been so sore and in pain my entire life. So honestly, these are the say, ever since we got the house, we moved. I got my gym in there an hour or getting there.

Starting point is 01:53:02 I'll build it here soon. And yeah, I'll probably start doing my gym workouts again and maybe going there for like an aerobic day. I got a punch card or something, so we'll do that. Yeah, I don't think your workouts are the issue. I think the workouts are probably fine. When you said about eating carbs and how you pay for it with your gastro issues, that's a huge.

Starting point is 01:53:24 Yeah, that's a sign of some dysbiosis. I would definitely, if I were you, I would work with a functional medicine practitioner and treat the underlying root issue with your gut because seed is a really good probiotic. That'll only help so much. Age you one will only help so much. But if there's a dysbiosis going on, if there's an overgrowth that's happening, they'll help

Starting point is 01:53:48 they'll help with the symptoms, but they often don't really solve the problem. You might need to go on a SIBO protocol or something like that to to kind of reset and then go and rebuild the and repopulate the guy and heal the gut from that standpoint. But I would work with a functional medicine practitioner. Luke, are you still training clients? Are you still training clients? I got two clients I trained in the morning. I've been training them for five, six years. I only ask because I didn't know how much you're still pursuing training people or if you ever have a desire to rebuild or focus on that

Starting point is 01:54:23 being a full-time career because there's a lot of value in going through Dr. Cabral's certification. And actually, you can figure out your own stuff and then at the same time, that's going to give you knowledge. And then this type of stuff, I think of like, corrective exercise and knowledge around, like, gut, like what you would get with Cabral, probably has to be two of the most powerful things that a coach or a trainer could have in the tool belt to help clients because

Starting point is 01:54:49 so many clients suffer from those two things. So worthwhile investment just from that perspective. Yeah, I will say like my mobility and my corrective exercise part of things probably ain't the greatest. I mean, even with like full range of motion, everything, but I feel like CrossFit did a number on me. Like my shoulders, dude, and my knees, my back, has like, I've never had back issues. And then all of a sudden, I walk in, and it's one rat max deadlift day. And I'm like, they're like, oh, what are you gonna do?

Starting point is 01:55:22 Oh, vice-price. I don't know. 405, who knows? They're like, no, what are you gonna do? I'm like, I don't know. 405, who knows? They're like, no, you're gonna go more than that. Ended up ripping. Ended up ripping 420 for 3. And yeah, I couldn't feel my back for two weeks. I honestly thought I had to polish this. I'm not even kidding.

Starting point is 01:55:41 Perfect form by the way, boys. So, If only somebody worked me that way. Perfect form by the way boys. So, if only somebody were, yeah, that was, yeah, fully there were signs. But fully there were, yeah, some warning from some podcast. Yeah, right. We just talked.

Starting point is 01:55:52 No, I would focus, I would focus number one on the gut. That's, that's gonna be the priority. And then number two, be very consistent, like, every seven days a week, you know, with your tracking. But I'll be honest with you Luke, I think you gotta work on your gut stuff and just be, look, you're at, you know, with your tracking. But I'll be honest with you, Luke, I think you got to work on your gut stuff. And just be, look, you're at, you know, 15, 16%. You're good. You're good.

Starting point is 01:56:10 And honestly, trying to cut with an underlying gut issue is gonna be really, it's gonna be a pain the butt, no pun intended, it's gonna be tough. So I would, I'll do the, I would do the gut health testing. Start with that. It'll make the cut or the bulk or whatever you decide to do later, a lot easier if you address that. You're not in lock a whole lot for you.

Starting point is 01:56:29 I mean, I'm going to do that right now. If you're not in our holistic health forum on Facebook, you need to be in there because that's where we have Dr. Cabral and his team. If you're in there now, that's great. And see if you can work with them. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's free.

Starting point is 01:56:43 Get in there. Get in there for sure because then you can ask questions. And if you think work with them. Oh yeah, I'm not. Yeah, it's free. Get in there. It's free. Get in there for sure, because then you can ask questions. And if you think you have SIBO, I don't recommend this. I think you should always test, but if you think you do,

Starting point is 01:56:52 there's really effective over the counterways of treating it. You know, it used to be done with just antibiotics, but they've done a lot of studies now on natural antimicrobials, and there's different formulas out there that have been shown in studies to be as effective as antibiotics. I think they're more effective though because they also work on fungulum you know any fungal overgrowth or

Starting point is 01:57:13 anything like that whereas antibiotics can actually cause that to be worse so but definitely get in that form Luke. Okay yeah we'll do. Do you guys think the macros are good to about 2700? That's so good. That seems like it's your maintenance if that's where you're keeping it. And you know, like I said, what I would do if I were you is I would look at my gut, address that, then when I'm done with addressing that, I would do a slow reverse diet, really slow,

Starting point is 01:57:36 which will probably get you a little leaner if everything's working out well, even on its own. And then once I got up to, let's say, 32, 3,300 calories, that's just where I tend to stop, then I would do a cut from there. I like that. Sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good boys. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:57:49 You got it. Thanks for calling in brother. All right. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah. With the with the gut being off, it does make things. I mean, for me, yeah. And when mine was so mine, we get real off. So I wasn't like when mine is off. It's not like I'm just talking like this guy.

Starting point is 01:58:06 No, I think it's a lot of it's like off. Yeah, it makes it, you think he pounds a lean body mass for me at least. Well, yeah, just keep factor in the things I was saying. Like he could have like, he when he does do his deficit that he says like thousand calorie, he could be cutting too hard with the relative to the amount of training and stress

Starting point is 01:58:22 that he has in his life. So his body's not responding the way it should be from it. The days that he does kind of fall off the wagon, he over consumes calories enough, maybe even under eats protein, like what happened to me all the time. And so then that's enough to cancel out his deficit, add in the fact that he might be also battling

Starting point is 01:58:40 some gut issues. So then it's just adding to that stress level, body's not recovering the weight, should be not building muscle the weight, should be. And so you could literally be perfect in all these other things and have those three things off a little bit. And that's enough to, it's enough to, you know, keep him at this body fat range, which is not a bad place to be. Oh, it's a athletic range. Look, I want to be very clear. If you hit your protein targets,

Starting point is 01:59:03 avoid heavily processed foods and lift weights or do some kind of strength training nothing crazy But something consistently you're gonna naturally fall in a nice healthy body fat percentage But you probably won't get shredded. You're probably not gonna have a six-pack That's gonna take all kinds of levers being perfect that takes tracking and that takes very very good consistency No, most people don't walk around Doing the other things I just said and then get down to 10. Some people do, but most people won't.

Starting point is 01:59:28 Can not stress the consistency thing. It's a slow-ass process. It's a very slow process to drop body fat. Dropping weight, this is why the whole thing is such a bad representation of the biggest loser and she'll get 10 pounds in these these people make these radical body transformations. It's like, it's such a terrible representation of what it should look like. It's a very slow gradual process that takes a lot of consistency to get down to the end. By the way, as you, it doesn't get easier,

Starting point is 02:00:02 it gets harder. The leaner you get, you mess up just a little bit. The less room for air you have. You remember being in, when you're in single-digit body fat? You have like one meal. One day could mess up my body fat percentage. That's what, like people don't understand, when you're hovering around four, five percent body fat,

Starting point is 02:00:19 a day, one day of overeating, and everything else perfection could put me up now to seven percent body fat. Like that's how crazy. Well, here's what, here's the, here's the math. If you're 200 pounds and you're at 5% body fat, that means you have what, what is that? 10 pounds of body fat on your body? Is that what that is?

Starting point is 02:00:35 10 pounds. Go up a pound of body fat. It's going to register in body fat percentage. Yeah. It makes a big impact. That's what I mean. That's why it's like, so as it gets, as you get lower, the discipline and the consistency just gets greater. Now, what gets easier over time is one,

Starting point is 02:00:50 if you've built a lot of muscle, the body responds, it gets it back to, when you've done this enough times where you've gotten down to that, like you start to figure out, like, oh, these are the levers I pull from my body. Because that's where we're all so unique. Like, he may be missing on the stressing.

Starting point is 02:01:05 It could be a big thing for him. It's like, oh, fuck, you know what? I was training too many days. I scale back to three days a week. I focused on a more recovery stuff. Didn't do such a hard cut. Boom, his body, you have to figure that out. Once you figure that out, what gets easier is knowing what the answer is.

Starting point is 02:01:20 Still takes that same consistency though. Totally. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to Mind Pump Free.com and check out all of our free health and fitness guides. They're all free and they're all helpful and we reach most people with their health and fitness goals with them. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram, Mind Pump Justin.

Starting point is 02:01:38 I'm on Instagram at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy on Instagram at my pump at a. Maps Esthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2179: How to Fix Left & Right Side Muscle Imbalances, Signs to Stop Reverse Dieting & Start Cutting, What Do Do if You Are in a Caloric Deficit but Are Gaining Weight & More (Listener Live Coaching)

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