Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2183: The Link Between Heavy Deadlifts & Bigger Biceps, the Truth About Seed Oils, the Value of Certifications in Preparing You to Become a Personal Trainer & More

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer four Pump Head questions drawn from last Sunday’s Quah post on the @mindpumpmedia Instagram page.  Mind Pump Fit Tip: Here’s a good rule of thumb when it comes to your health. NATURAL is better! The second best option is to use products that encourage natural processes. (1:56) The theory behind why guys pull pranks on one another. (31:25) Has Justin’s cheese withdrawal caused some deeper anger issues? (33:25) Another update from Sal on his latest Ketamine therapy session. (41:06) Why electrolyte supplementation is NECESSARY for athletes. (51:48) Too much radical honesty? (56:17) Shout out to Dr. Adeel Khan. (59:15) #Quah question #1 - Does heavy deadlifting on a pull day grow forearms or biceps? (1:02:08) #Quah question #2 - What certifications did you all start with as personal trainers, and did you feel like they helped prepare you to be a personal trainer? (1:08:16) #Quah question #3 - What MAPS programs are you guys currently following? (1:17:57) #Quah question #4 - Is the seed oil controversy real? (1:26:48) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP at checkout** For a limited time only, Mind Pump listeners get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump October Promotion: MAPS Bands | The Skinny Guy ‘hardgainer’ Bundle 50% off! **Code OCTOBER50 at checkout** Mind Pump #1777: Cooking Oils That Can Make You Sick With Max Lugavere Mind Pump #1875: Tainted Science With Max Lugavere Visit Eight Sleep for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! **Save $150 on the Pod Cover.** Visit Entera Skincare for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save.** What Certifications do all Personal Trainers Need? Visit CPPS Coaches for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code “mindpump” at checkout**  Paul Chek reaction video to Max Lugavere – Instagram Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Layne Norton, Ph.D. (@biolayne) Instagram Jordan Peterson (@jordan.b.peterson) Instagram Adeel Khan, MD (@dr.akhan) Instagram Kelly Starrett (@thereadystate) Instagram Joe DeFranco (@defrancosgym) Instagram Josh Trent (@joshtrentofficial) Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere) Instagram Paul Chek (@paul.chek) Instagram  

At Salesforce, we're all about asking more of AI. Questions like, where's the data going? Is it secure? Are you sure? Are you sure you're sure? Get answers you can trust from Salesforce at AskMoreVai.com. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews.

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in history. This is Mind Pup, right? In today's episode, we answered listeners questions, but this was after an intro portion. Today it was 59 minutes long. In the intro portion, we talk about current events, scientific studies, our families, random stuff.

It's a lot of fun. By the way, if you wanna fast forward to your favorite parts, check the show notes. There's timestamps there and you can just click on one, it'll take you right to where you want to go. Also, if you want to ask us a question that we might pick for an episode like this one, go to Instagram at MindPump Media every Sunday, we give the option or the opportunity to post a question, then we might pick it. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab. They make skincare products to arrive from natural sources, or the opportunity to post a question. Then we might pick it. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors.

The first one is Caldera Lab. They make skincare products derived from natural sources that have been shown in studies to improve the appearance and health of your skin. It's good stuff. It really works. Go check them out. Go to calderalab.com-sashmime-pump.

Use the code MindPump and get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Elemente. This is an electrolyte powder drink designed for athletes, people who eat whole natural food diets, people on low-carb diets. There's no artificial sweeteners, there's no calories, and it has the right amount of sodium for performance, recovery, and pumps. This stuff actually makes a difference. Check them out. Go to L, go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump. And on that link, you'll get a free sample pack with any order. We're also

running a sale this month on some workout programs. Maps bands is half off and our hard gainer bundle of programs is half off. They're both 50% off only this month. If you're interested, go to maps fitness products calm and then use the code October 50 for the 50% off discount. All right, here comes a show. Here's a good rule of thumb when it comes to your health. Natural is better. In other words, if you get your body to naturally be healthier, that's the best option.

All right, what's the second best option? Well, if you have to use products to help yourself out, use those that help encourage natural processes, those that try to mimic natural processes. Synthetic tends to be worse than natural. So if you follow those two strategies, you're probably going to be better off. I wanted to do that because, well, there's a couple of reasons why. One, natural is always better, right? So naturally good hormone levels are better than hormones that have to be taken exogenously, obviously. If you're left with no other option, then what you want to do is you want to mimic natural levels as best as you can. That's the second best option.

Diet, same thing, things you put on your skin, same thing. If you put things on your skin that don't work with your skin's natural way of being healthy, then you're probably worse off than working with things that encourage or work with your skin's natural ways of being healthy. Usually that's a great rule of thumb. And I think if people kind of follow this as their guideline, they'd be much better off. It just tends to be true most of the time.

So I wanted to ask you that. So Caldera just came out with a new beer product and I was reading the label on it and I saw seed oils. There's all this stuff going around right now with seed oils just being so bad for you. Is there a difference in me digesting it versus me putting it on my skin? Okay. Yeah, there is. So there is a skin is the largest organ of the body. Yeah. Yes. But so a lot of companies will use like synthetic products, compounds to mimic what is natural. Natural products, those derived off of plants and oils, are typically going to be better.

Of course, the formulation matters, but typically better because they're going to more mimic the oils in your skin that you naturally produce, balance out your pH. They're not going to wipe out or severely disrupt your skin's microbiome or what's considered a healthy microbiome. Whereas the synthetic products generally tend to do that. Of course, there's always, you know, you wanna look at the product itself,

but the controversy around seed oils has to do with consuming them, not putting them on your skin. Now, yes, putting things on your skin, it definitely can affect your insides, but like seed oils or natural oils or plants, they're not gonna have the estrogenic effects like the Xenoestrogens may have.

At the very least, we've co-evolved with things that occur in nature. So we're more likely to understand what they will do and what they won't do versus let's say A new chemical that oh my god. This is so good for you We don't have thousands of years of co-evolution with those things that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad But we just don't know and when you don't know you I think going on the side of natural tends to point us in about So I think that's what a lot of people think when they ingest some of these seed oils, right? So I'm Doug's got pulled up the Caldair Lab website

and I was like, you look at the, you know, apricot oil, the gooseberry seed oil, red raspberry. You have all these things that are like natural. Yes. And that are mixed up to make this blend that feels amazing on my beard. It makes it look shiny. Right.

But then you have this stuff going around of like the different types of seed oils that people are cooking with and ingesting. Totally. How is that, okay, so yeah, how is that different? So those are different seeds, by the way, that they're using in those seed oils. Those industrial seed oils are made from things

that are not in the caldera, you know, beard oil. For example, you know, some of the stuff you mentioned, you could literally take that, take one of those seeds, squeeze it. Off the, off the plant. Yeah, you're not like going through this industrial process to extract oil. We have the processing process. You have to deodorize it and use other chemicals to strip it so that it doesn't smell bad. So do you think that that's, sorry to interrupt you, but I want to make a point if that's

true. Do you think that is most likely, whether we know for sure or not that these seed oils are very harmful, right? Because the verdict isn't completely out. I feel like there's a camp of people that think it's the worst thing ever than there's the other camp that the Lane Norton's are like, well, with the study say it's not clear yet. So do you think what we are seeing

is kind of like what we learn about GMO stuff. It's more about what they're spraying or the process of it than it is actually the seed oils itself. So it's like the seed oils are called residue from the treatments. Oh, just just just the whole process like okay so look it at this way. And again, this isn't conclusive, but it is generally a good direction, right? Because we don't have data to conclusively show. There's some that shows us bad, show them that shows it's okay. We don't have conclusive data.

So we have to go off of, okay, well, what's a good estimate? What's a good guess? And a good guess in estimate is not, well, data. We don't have the data yet, therefore it's okay. That's not, to me, that's not a good direction. Because we didn't have data on a lot of things that we now know are bad for us. So what's a good strategy?

A good strategy is, is this something that humans could have consumed in those quantities without the industrial processing processes? And the answer is no. There's no way you would consume grape seed oil, or grape seed oil as they call it, in the amounts that we can consume them without these crazy industrial processes. It just doesn't, it's impossible. So it's a good kind of rule of thumb to be like,

okay, well, we don't know. So I'm gonna go with olive oil, because you get squeeze in olive. I can go with like olive oil because you get squeezing olive. I can go with avocado oil because it's right there. I don't have to go through this super advanced process to pull this oil out and you know we never consume this. It's just a good rule of thumb. Now will they get proven one way or the other over time? I believe so. But so, what seems to be true for the most part is the further away we move from how we evolved, the more problems we encounter. It seems like scientists, I mean, I get it, like you're trying to just completely go by data

and all these studies that are going to kind of give you one direction or the other, but it usually takes five to 10 years to reveal that. So in that, in the meantime, like you're telling the consumer that, yeah, well, based on what we have right now, everything is fine. And, you know, in that regard as a consumer, I don't know that I want to follow that, that kind of a strategy. It doesn't seem like a lot of the cases that have been out there for, you know, whatever it's artificial sugar, whether it's, you know, some of these other controversial type of foods that you're ingesting, like I'm not going to take that chance as a consumer going forward on my own health.

It's like why? It's why on things where you things where there's other alternatives. There's a healthy, natural alternative. We know that to be the case already. So it's like, I'm taking a chance in this direction based off of whatever data you're presenting. Look, even things that seem to be innocuous, like, oh, we can live in temperature controlled rooms and houses and we have electric lights. Like, that's amazing.

We should do that, right? That moved us away from how we evolved. Now it's got its own benefits. I'd rather live in a temperature controlled house with electric lights than living in a cave, okay? But are there side effects that we couldn't possibly or didn't even predict? Yeah, like our body's ability to adjust the temperature.

Well, it seems like that's a muscle. If you don't strengthen it, you actually weaken the body. This is why hot, cold contrast therapies got health benefits. What about electric lights? Our sleep is definitely disrupted because our brains evolved with the sun rising and then the sun setting. And so because of that, your circadian rhythm is attuned to that environment. We moved into an artificial environment or primitive bodies because our bodies are essentially the same as they were 100,000 years ago, no difference,

or even longer. We have some side effects. So, what about food? Well, it's a good thing that we have food accessible to us all the time. It's a good thing that we've created foods that have a long shelf life, right? Are there side effects of that? Yeah, obesity. You know, obesity becoming a big one. Hyper process food, that becomes another problem. So it's just a good rule of thumb. Why do you think it's so difficult for people to frame that like that? Because it becomes so dogmatic and camps,

it's either you believe it or you don't believe it versus like, well, why can't you just have more of approach? Like, for example, and by the way, I don't look at those things and demonize it. Like I've openly talked about drinking diet coke, but I'm also mindful of like how unnatural it is and that it's probably not ideal. Totally.

I do it all the time. And so I'm just not like really nearly drinking 10 of them a day because I like them that much It's an occasional treat for you. You perceive it right and I don't look at it like oh because it's diet in zero calories This is healthy for me. I look at it's like yeah, it's pretty far from natural So if I really like this I should probably minimize the amount I do it because probably not ideal for me Whether that's been proven to be true or not I don't understand why that is such a big deal to frame it like that. It's just a really good rule of thumb. You always got to weigh things out. I brought up hormone replacement, right? So if you're

a man with really low testosterone, can't get it up naturally, it's not working, then you go on hormone replacement. It's better than being low testosterone, but is it better than having naturally good levels of testosterone? No, because it doesn't perfectly mimic the natural way your body produces testosterone, which are like spurts throughout the day. If you take testosterone, you typically will do like an injection, it gets a high peak after day one,

and it kind of slowly goes down over time and stays relatively high. The body doesn't actually produce testosterone that way. So is it better if you compared people on testosterone therapy to people who are healthy with good healthy levels of testosterone and all things being controlled? I guarantee you the natural testosterone is going to outperform it in terms of longevity. But if you compare low testosterone to, you know, testosterone that is artificially in a better place with exogenous, then you're going to see

it's better. So if your options are to starve or not get adequate nutrients or eat things with some seed oils, then yeah, you got a better option. But if your option is seed oils versus olive oil or butter or avocado oil, then it's probably better because those seed oils require crazy amounts of processing with advanced techniques that didn't exist up until, I don't know, what, 50 years ago, 60 years ago? If your minimal requirements for surviving is covered, now we gotta look at quality.

Yeah, it's not that crazy of a thought to go through this logic. I completely shifted the way I looked at supplements like Midway through my career too because of the point you're making right now. Like I remember when I was like the kid who was trying every like, you know, testosterone booster, you know, explode.

Like all these performance supplements to build more muscle mass stuff to build more muscle. Yet I'm super deficient in vitamin D or my B vitamins are off, or like, I'm not getting enough iron, or it's like, you're far better off looking at where you're potentially deficient in nutrients that are important to your body to run optimally and balancing that out,

then you are taking some performance, the latest cutting performance supplement that's out there. And the iron you have that, and the reason why I know it's not pushed very hard is because it's cheap. It's not very expensive to go pick some vitamin D up, you know what I'm saying? Or some B vitamins. You're, there's more money to sell you on the newest

no explode, pre-attained, branched, you know, meadow mass builder. There's also the science, which science, the scientific method is objective. It's a wonderful process, one of the greatest discoveries of humanity. It allows us to innovate and test things objectively, like, it's amazing. But then there's also like the culture of the scientific community or people in science, people, of course, imperfect or like,

scientism, right, like a legend around it. Where it's like, well, if the data doesn't show that it's bad, then it's not bad. Or show me the data, show me the data, you know, type of deal. I was like, okay, we're not always going to have data, but we can use logic. And this goes in both directions. Like, I remember talking about the supplement, Ashwaganda. Ashwaganda had been used for hundreds of thousands of years for libido, vitality, stress relief, okay? But there was no data to support it. So you'd

bring up Ashwaganda in the science community, be like, well, there's no data. It doesn't do anything. Well, while it's been used for thousands of years for this thing, maybe we should listen to people who have been using it for thousands of years. There's probably some value. Now we have data showing it provides all those benefits. So now they're on board. You brought up Caldera. If you look at Cal, here's why I think Caldera is so damn effective. Like one bottle of their, their serum, okay. Works exceptionally well on Justin and on me. You couldn't have to, you couldn't have two different skin types. He's dry, his skin is dry, mine is oily. I obviously darker-complexed, he's much lighter-complexed.

Our skin is very different. With synthetic products, you would have a product for dry skin, one for oily skin. You'd have all these processes, all these chemicals to do that, whatever. Caldera is the same formula. What does Caldera do? It uses natural compounds that more closely match and mimic

your skin's natural way of being healthy. It works with your skin. So someone with dry skin, it works and with oily skin, it works as well. I think that's a, now it's a rule of thumb, but it's not like a hard set rule. Yes, there's natural things that are bad for you and things that are synthetic that are better for you. But generally speaking, when you have this question in mind, should I put this on my skin? You look at the ingredients. How many examples are out there like that?

I mean, I would love to hear that. Because they're derived from, they always, science always looks to natural, whether it's from animals or plants or, you know, something in nature that they can mimic. And then they recreate it and elab and create the synthetic version. I don't understand that argument in terms of

the synthetic being better in terms of how they took out maybe some of the toxic. I mean, we always think more is better. It's like they concentrate is what they do. But then there's a delivery system that they're not accounting for. Yeah, I mean, that's what I love the, I'm not gonna forget when I first read.

I know I've shared it on here a bunch of times, but a long time I said that with the sugar analogy with the, you know, Bant of the sugar cane. Yeah. Yeah. All fiber you're gonna like sugar actually would not be that bad to consume if you ate it in its natural form It because you know how hard it would be to get the amount I remember reading in the amount of sugar That's in one coke is like equivalent to six or eight feet of sugar cane You know the amount of effort and work you would have to do to grind that up by hand or chew that down to get to that much sugar.

Like it would literally, you burn off the calories that you would consume getting it. Like that's how safe and okay it would be to consume as much sugar as you want in its natural state. But we've found a way to process it down and refine it and concentrate it and now it's a- You know it's funny about this. This is how arrogant humans are. We are pretty good about this with animals. When you look at people that care for animals in zoos, even, or when they're in captivity,

or even our own pets, everything's delicately balanced and managed. We're like, oh, you know, what is their natural habitat? Right? Let's mimic this as best possible. What do they eat? Let's just really, if we can do it, if we can bring it as close to natural as possible, that's best. And everybody knows that, right? We don't look at ourselves as animals. No. You know why?

Because the ship is sail for us. We're so far from that. We didn't consider that brand. Like, yeah, so we don't want to look back. We're ready for space. We don't want to look back at that and say that because when you do anything with that, almost everything we do is obnoxious and beyond what we start. Of course. Our natural environment, like walk to your house and literally think about everything

that you use or have in there. Like there's nothing. There's there's little. I don't like it being that hot. Yeah. There's little sign. There's little signs in hints of it though, right? Like, like, why do we put like plants inside our house? Oh, I know. Right. Like, why do we, why do we put plants a in setter house? Oh, I know, right. Like why do we put plants a little place? Trying to bring it back in. Why do we like things that make the sound of water? But without bugs. You know what I mean?

I like to hear water. I don't want to be an actual waterfall. I paid $5,000 for my waterfall. They're right. I'm like, it's so funny. Or like when people like, imagine like, imagine a dog owner right now, right? And they keep their dog in a confined space for seven hours and then they come home

They let the dog out and they don't let the dog outside and the dog starts acting weird They don't think to themselves like better put my dog on some medicine because my dog's got 80d He's chewing up all my shit weird people do but yeah, yeah people be like oh, it's cuz you fucking dogs locked These exercise we just be outside and then we do, but yeah. Yeah, people will be like, oh, it's because you fucking dogs locked up. Yeah, these exercise, we just be outside. And then we do our safety door kids. Why is Timmy acting up in class? Yeah, yeah. He must be something wrong with Timmy and Vibrator.

Put him in front of a screen for four hours when he's home and then I put him in a school where they sit him in a desk for six hours. Let's put him on some medication so we can operate in this. So I was talking with my, how we're funny with that. I'll tell you my daughter about this, because she's got a,

she's, there's a friend that she has who's getting tested for ADD. You know, do you guys notice by the way, ADD and ADHD, now it's all ADD? It means the same thing for ADD. I learned this by the way, because my wife is very well versed in ADD. She was like rattling off all the current information

and I looked at her and I realized like Did you learn about this because of me? Yeah, are you setting me? She's like yes, it helps me It helps me feel really I'm like can you explain some of the ways you know that this is it shows you were talking with my daughter She's like well sometimes your dad can seem like he's not paying attention Or I'm like he does he care about me is even listening to me? It's like but they when I realized how his brain works, I realized like, no, I'm not taking it personal.

I'm like, okay, well, I guess that's good and bad. So, anyway, so- So, so I'll put in a reminder notes in scientific studies. It's so, anyway. So, we were talking with her about it because she has a friend who's going through this testing. And I'm like, and we were trying to explain to her how unnatural the school setting is.

I'm like, we're taking children who, of the entire age range, right, when, as, from birth till, you know, death, right. The age range that you probably are gonna move or wanna move the most is the ages that we make your ass sit down and look at someone talking and listen to them all day long. And then we'll let you out for a little bit and then come back inside and do the same thing.

I'm like, it's also so unnatural to sit only with kids your own age. So here's something that I notice. When my two and a half year old plays with other two and a half year olds, they struggle. They'll fight for the same toy. Yeah, put them with a five or six year old watch how well he does. Put them with a five or six year old

or put them with a little, someone he was in younger than him. Yeah. They perfectly work together. So like, so in, on environment, so in natural. So I told my daughter, I said, yeah, a lot of kids are gonna struggle on that. It's like, in fact, it's surprising some kids are okay in that environment. And then our answer is to put them on

like these crazy drugs that like make them act the way that they're supposed to. Well, I remember, I never thought about it until I had Max, the thought of what we do with daycare. Like how crazy is that? Like it never dawned on me. That's a natural thing we do in our society.

It's very well accepted that this is the norm. Your kid gets to about a year, two years old. You have to go to work. You guys go back and so you drop them off at this daycare where they love your kid and they take care of it. But imagine you just came into this world and you've figured out who mom and dad barely have figured out who mom and dad are. This is your safe place.

And then they just like hand you away to some strangers and think of like as a kid. Remember, like here's another way I thought about too is like that you don't realize is like your time is so different. The younger you are. Of course. Like we remember when you were like, you know, eight or nine years old, and like the summer was like so sure and like school year was so like you,

it's so that you're, you're, you're, I bet they've proven that. Yeah. You perceive time much faster as you age. Wait, yeah, it's so different, right? I told you in a year from now, you'd be like, oh my God, it's only a year from now. Right.

You tell that to a 10 year old, they're like, oh, that's like a lifetime. Yeah. So imagine you, a kid who gets, you'd be like, oh my God, it's only a year from now. Right. You tell that to a 10 year old, they're like, oh, that's like a lifetime. So imagine a kid who gets dropped off for six hours, and they're only a year old, that's like a huge fraction of their time. And so they're going to even perceive that differently than you are with a strike. Man, imagine like how many kids, and then heaven forbid they have a traumatic experience where maybe they have diarrhea traumatic experience, or maybe they have diarrhea, or maybe the lady's not nice to them, or they're not paying attention,

or another kid is like pushing them down, like, oh my god, like, it's a normal is not natural. That's we confuse the two. Oh, it's normal, everybody does it. Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's good, or it's natural. No, there's data. And listen, parents listening right now, I get this. Like I do lots of, there's lots of things that I do that are not ideal because I have to. This is just, you know, daycare and stuff like that. It's one of them. School, you know, you know, you know, send your kid to traditional school. That's another one. It's just the way it is.

We're never going to be perfect. Okay. So I totally understand. There's lots of data to show that taking your kid to daycare when the little is traumatizing. Because it teaches them that they have to break the spawn, they have to, oh, I gotta deal with this other person. A lot of them learn how to disassociate, disconnect. It's harder for them to build. And if you think about what's natural, we grew up with all the people we knew right out the gates. The right out the gates, we know these people.

Yeah. We know all these people, we're with them all the time's birth. And then what I'm with. Still tribal at the end of the day. Yeah, I mean, that's your core unit tribe. You know, then you spawn off from there, like, and you introduce, you know, like, there's the, it's just like this immersion of like all strangers

and then figured out, sink or swim. Yep. It's pretty rough. Well, and I think the point of bringing it up, but it's not to shame anyone, any parent by any means at all. Yeah, I mean, you're gonna be able to take to shame anyone, any parent by any means at all. It's the, it become aware of it, right? Is to be aware of it so that like that gets factored

into our decisions like, I'm a little more empathetic that way with the kids. Yeah, yeah, you're more patient with the kid. Maybe you take a little bit more, maybe you as a rushed parent, be a little more mindful of when you just drop them off, like the whole process of that going down and then picking them up or maybe when there is an option where you don't have to take them there, you're like, you know what, I'm not going to because

I'd rather I want to be with him as much as I possibly can. So just get factored in, you're just more aware of it. It doesn't mean that you can't or you're not doing what the best you can to survive. And because obviously that precedes that, right? Oh yeah. If you had to go to work to give your kids food and keep them alive, that will guess what? They're going to have to have some adversity. They're going to go to that.

That's like not having a roof over your head. You have your needs met. Not having a roof over your head is way worse than going to be. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So, and that's the point is to like not just because society has deemed it normal, you know, and okay, it doesn't necessarily mean that it really is normal.

It's not, like we've just, we've decided that that's going to be but the reality of, it's actually very unnatural to do that. So because you are doing something that's unnatural and it's your child, maybe being mindful that I think is important. Our entire field, the field that we work in,

what we do on the podcast is really artificial ways of trying to keep people healthy in a crazy, not natural world. Think about this for a second. It's like a massive intervention. Think about how weird this is. This is so strange. If you really think about this in the context of humanity, right, we schedule a time to go to a place place to lift heavy things

and put them back down. We've built nothing, we've hunted nothing. It was not a necessity yet we have to do it to offset how terribly unhealthy normal modern life is. We have to find the purpose within it too. It doesn't give you that immediate gratification if I built this, you know right away. No, no, you have to develop a relationship I built this you know right away. No, no

You have to develop a relationship around it and you have to create this framework around it So that you do it can you know on a consistent basis, but how weird imagine if you took so much I imagine a hundred thousand years ago, right not even a hundred years ago Yeah, take someone from a hundred I said that before take someone a hundred years ago and show them the gym environment They'd be like what the fuck are you doing? There's plenty of work to do out the field. I'm going to show her outside. That's right.

You have a barn build right now. You have some animals to take. My grandfather said that to me. I never forget my grandfather. He's true, man. He told me he's like, he goes, you work out? He's like, I just worked. That's all he did.

That's all he's talking about. Out parts. In fact, my Sicilian grandfather, because of the work he did, it was so hard, right? They were really poor. His context of how much weight something is, was how many, what are those called?

Those boxes, they're like pallets or whatever. Like how many pallets of lemons? So, Oh, that's six pallets of lemons. They're crates of heavy. Yeah. So I'll be like, he like, my dad will be like, oh, you know, Sal could deadlift X amount of pounds. My grandfather will be like, okay, that's, you know,

how many how many palates 11s is that? That's great. But that's like, it's probably like, it's been, it's, oh, that's pretty good. Well, when I worked, when I worked to the ranch, it was funny because like really diet and exercise was like never conversation for their family because the whole life revolved around and farming is seven days a week. You don't get a day off. You don't get a vacation.

Especially a dairy farm that's happening twice. Nutrition is like what you do. I mean, a lot of it's eggs, milk, and stuff. So you don't even eat it off. There's no you eat whatever bacon you want, whatever eggs you want, whatever, you drink however much milk you want. Like there's no, and there's, you're burning so much off

and you're doing laborious, heavy things all day that there's not even a thought that goes into like weight management or, oh, I shouldn't eat this or I should eat that. It's like, you feel like, feel like a treat and have ice cream at night. Who cares? Not a big deal because don't worry tomorrow. You got what he worth. Actually, in fact, why don't eat this or I should eat that. It's like, you feel like a treat, have ice cream at night, who cares? Not a big deal, because don't worry tomorrow,

you've got plenty of work to do. Actually, in fact, why don't you eat some more? Yeah, it's like energy for the world. It was actually really interesting too, because I was actually right when I was getting interested in training and exercise. And I was like, I have these two worlds I live and I go back to the city with my friends and my normal life.

And then I have this you know dairy farm life And that their their life versus everybody else's is so different, you know I mean that when you think about it. That's how most people's life was just 150 years ago I think it's so and I still I still I still have such farm memories memories of my dad taking Me to work with them and then every once in while, him and his workers would have fun. And they would just compete with each other, right? To see who was stronger or more fit. But it was always the context of like the shit that they did.

Like so it was always like, who could lift the shovel? Yeah, it was every construct. Yeah, from the furthest part of the handle with the brick on it, or shovel the most concrete, the shortest part. Or how many bags of cement can you lift above your head or who could lift the long piece of wood by just putting it on their body?

And it would create their own feets of strength. And it was like, how much weight it was. Just reminding me, there used to be, there used to be, there's just like a popular, you know, one of those things that just moved through our society even before social media. There was a popular prank that you used to do with the Kong bag.

Yes, and you would slice it. So here's what it was. Everybody did this. Yeah, I see you guys do this. This is before social media. So what you do is if you have a new guy on the staff or the team, right? It's usually some young kid and maybe late teens,

early 20s who chose this, like I'm gonna go on this career. They'd say, okay, how many times can you lift a bag of cement above your head? So what you do is you put it on your head, then you get a guy behind you to kind of watch your technique or form. Then a guy in front of you is going to count. And what you do is you press it up and bring it down, but you have to hold it up. So the guy gets ready. Exactly.

He presses it up, a guy with a trowel or a zack that I behind him cuts in the middle. Right, that was like a thing. That was like a thing that everybody, I think if you ever did construction, I think everybody did cuts in the middle. Yeah. Right. That was like a thing. That was like a thing that everybody, I think if you ever did construction, I think everybody did that to the induction. Yeah. Is it a wildhouse stuff like that, like the Nintendo thing? You know, we talked about that before,

where it's like just everybody blew in it. Like how did we go? Yeah, there was no internet. There was no one sharing stuff on the internet back then. It's just spread. Yeah. From the atomic sit up, we talked about that. Yeah. I don't be ever don't look that up. We talked about that. Yeah, I know

Never don't look that up. I was talking to I think it was like Ethan and his friends about that like And and thankfully like one or two of them knew but like the other ones didn't know about it It was awkward describing it. You know, it almost sounded like I was was like, you know, that sounds like, like, gross and kind of rapy. Yes, I do. I do. My kids about it. And, and you know, as I'm telling it, you start, you know, because they're mirrors, right? Where have you talking to them? If I tell you guys, we laugh, huh? I don't realize how terrible it was. Yeah. I was telling my kids, and I remember my, my son must have been in eighth grade, maybe at the time. And he looks at me, goes, that's sexual assault. And I'm like, oh yeah, I guess you're right. It was like terrible.

Thankfully I wasn't one of them holding them down. I was like, it's like I felt real bad. What are we doing to each other? I don't know, dude. There's a joke. Yeah. You guys know the theory behind that, right? Why guys do shit like that to each other?

There's a theory, right? Oh, what is that? Oh, you find out who's the weak one. Yeah, so I was actually talking to the fact, you know, I was talking my daughter about this because Jessica told her about the prank she played on me with the texting and my daughter thought was so funny and I told her, I said, never start. I was having a whole conversation with my daughter. I said, don't ever do a prank war with a boy because boys escalate it. Wait, they don't know where to stop. It'll be really bad. So I was giving you somebody terrible heart with a guy. Always, or something terrible.

Like, okay, I made you jump and then you took a poop on my desk, like how does that a normal escalation? Like that's, and that's something that boys, you skipped a few levels. Like hell no, like it just gets crazy. So, and then there was like, well, why do, you know, boys do that, you know, why do you guys do that? The theory is, is that guys are constantly, this is the theory.

So who knows if it's true, but they're testing each other. Right. Going to war. Yeah, because you want to see who will crack. When the shit hits the fan, we're hunting, we're out war. Like you want to know, yeah, you know, who's going to crack and who's going to be able to, you know, stand tall or whatever. I think that's funny.

I know. I think that's funny. This is why it's like in Deering. Like, I don't know, but you guys, but when I was younger, when I start to become more secure, if I hung out with a group of guys, and if they would do, like, they would play a prank on me or call me a nickname, you could tell when they're doing it bowling or when they're joking. But when they were doing it, it was almost like, oh, cool. I'm accepted in the group now. I have a terrible nickname. Oh, yeah. 100% think that.

It was the best. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's always a guy that has mean-spirited behind you. You can tell the difference. Yeah, and then you know what you're dealing with, too. It's like, okay, this is the guy that's like just the guy that wants to hurt people. He always gets ostracized anyways. Right. He's also the one that can't take it. You know, exactly.

The most interesting story. Jordan Pearson talks about this, right? Like you can't rule the group and be like this tyrant. Because eventually everybody will come and overthrow you. So it's like, even if you're going to be, you know, making fun of or poking the pot prodding on each other, like if you do it in a mean-spirit way,

eventually you get overthrown. I've been wrestling with this because this is kind of where Ethan's at because he's teenager, you know, and he's like going through this with his friends and like they're, you know, making fun of each other and this and that. And I'm like, and kind of describing what we're just talking about, whether or not who, if it's, you know, mean spirited or if it's, you know, semi-funny and, you know,

and I've been kind of like stepping back myself. I'm like, dude, I've been like pretty, pretty like, like, like short fuse lately. Just, and I'm like, what the fuck is going on with me? And even the last podcast we've had, I felt a little like, ugh. Yeah, yeah, I've been a little bit. I did, and honestly, when I was delivering that story, I wasn't chastising Ethan or anything about

like having her ankle or anything, and I'm not like, shaming him for that. But it felt like I was a, shaming him for that. But it felt like I was like a little hard, you know, on him for that. And then too, like I've just been snappy and with Courtney and I got into it, you know, last night and all of something like, dude, like, is it the lack of cheese?

I feel like I'm in a... I'm not, I'm not. I am such like an angry person now. He actually brought up a very interesting point though. I believe that there's something about cheese that actually interacts with like the opiate receptors. Yeah, there is. But that's all that's all palatable.

Bro, and he takes enough of it in that it's like maybe a small ghost girl with a troll or something. Maybe his mother's heroine was helping. Yeah. So maybe, maybe, but I mean, I talked to Sal, to like, I've been... There's more lack of sleep. Like, there it is right there.

You know, that's more likely. But I mean, honestly, I'm still trying to... I hate to try to make my entire... I try to make my entire... I try to make that joke, and you're like, well, maybe we should look at some of these. Like, yeah, bro, just take some of this. I was like, I like Adam's advice.

He's gonna put, he's gonna have cheese capsules. Yeah. You gotta weed something. You're too cramp, bro. I got Amazon. A's gonna put, A's gonna have cheese capsules. Yeah. You gotta weed yourself. You're gonna do great, I'm bro, I got great. A's trying to go all the doctors, like listen, doc, I stop cheese, but, uh, fuck it's, uh, but I'm doing heroin. I'm angry now.

Yeah, so I probably should have it, right? Right? No, it's just a little heroin. It's good to be able to make it happen. Sleep for like weeks. I know, I know, I have, yeah, it's great. Crapie's sleep will make you, yeah, it shows up for me, like, and it's not obvious because like, yeah,

lack of sleep, usually you're like fatigue, you know, your brain fog, like, like, it's, it's visible signs of like, I'm, I don't have energy. But for me, it like, I've, you're trying to like, bury, bury it. And then it becomes like this irritation that just comes out in weird places. I have lived this for the last three years. My wife is a different person, everybody is, right? But she's bare the brunt of the lack of sleep with the family because she's with the kids. She's a completely different person with lack of sleep.

We she's aware of it, I'm aware of it. It's just anybody, right? When I get a lack of sleep, I also become very aware. I'm short, I'm more forgetful than normal, more likely to feel depressed or negative. It's terrible. It's fucking terrible. And the problem is you can get away with kind of like

a little bit of shitty sleep for a while. So you're think you're okay. I'll just add the caffeine. I'll do a little bit of this. I'll just get that, make myself like I can operate at work. I guess I'm fine. Nah man. Well, it's like you're like, you just makes you an asshole. It's too, it's like, I don just add the caffeine. Yeah, I'll do a little bit of this. I'll just get that, make myself like I can operate it work. I guess I'm fine. No, man. Well, it's like, you just makes you an asshole.

It's, I don't have an excuse. It's a random thing. It's like kind of like it got thrown in the mix, and I wasn't ready for it. And then it just, it's like, oh, it's gonna be temporary. And it's just kind of like, it's not gonna be like this for very much longer.

And it just keeps extending itself. And the worst part for me is that like Courtney handles it like a champ and she's just very like level headed. Yeah, she's tired and like yons and whatnot, but like doesn't get like I get like I just like it just it compiles slowly and then it gets worse. And then I just I feel myself like just getting angry. And I think that's because of her training. Just an asshole.

Do you think that? I have thought that there's only one, only one natural asshole. Maybe I'm just getting sleep out of all the time. Listen, listen, that's probably 100% wrong. We always joke around moody, whatever. You have the worst sleep consistently. Always. Not always. It gets better and worse, but chronically, I mean, I can't argue with you right now because that's happening to me right now. But it happens on a ton of time. You gotta worry, I feel like you gotta worry about more things to do.

But it just happens on its own more often, it's what I mean. You don't have interruptions as much as you just can't sleep. Yeah, yeah. For whatever reason. Definitely, I'm notorious for, I don't know. I think Doug would be up there with me too. I think one of our curses is thinking about business

at night, that is the worst. And it's like, so, okay, it's such a heart, it's such a hard thing too, because I also recognize the strength in it, right? Like that's, when I'm by myself laying in bed at 10 o'clock at night, everybody else is asleep. I'm deep in my thought. And like numbers are flying through my head,

thinking six months out is, like everything is coming together for me. And I like, no, like it's the most, now you know it's not a business thing though, right? You know that it's a natural behavior and you will pick the things that you're most into or concerned about. So for someone who can be their kids,

someone else who can be fear about what's happening in the world, you obviously run the business, you love it. So that's where your thoughts are gonna go. But there's something else that's deeper, is the why you can't let go of the world and then kind of fall into it. Yeah, but my point of that is,

I don't know if I would want to. I don't know if I would want to sacrifice the letting go because my point is, some of the best work gets done at that time. So it's like, okay, let's say you're where you're alluding is like, you're some deep rooted childhood thing that you want to cover.

Let's just say that, let's play that game. Let's go down that, like, got something that is related to that, we uncover it, I solve it. Now I have, I sleep like a baby, I'm out by nine o'clock, and then I don't think about the business ever again, from nine to midnight when some of my best work is done at that time. Yeah. So it's like I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. My sleep. Let's put this way. My sleep made that bad to where I would sacrifice that right now. Maybe if it was chronically like crippling me and I was like not able to.

I wonder how used to it you are too. I mean, my my my sleep score and on my orange stuff like that other than this last better. Oh, I mean, I've been ever since the ever since the sleep eight. That thing is I know it's not commercial for them, but let me tell you that thing has been. Yeah, I know game changer. Yeah, well, I think healthy you is typically better you, but there is something to be said about the innovative state of mind. Innovative state of mind and inspiration often comes from stress or outside the norm or whatever, so you'll see people who will innovate more when they're fasted or when they're going through stressful situations. So there is some truth to what you're saying, I think. Oh, I mean, if you were to open up my iPhone notes, which is where I keep most of my stuff, right, it's me reaching over at middle of the night, you know, with my thing all dark and, you know, riding down my thought. I mean, it's crazy, bro.

I mean, I have thousands and thousands of notes in there from, you know, just being deep in thought. And yes, would it be happens that night for me to is like real quick note, just have to put it down. Yes. Forget it. And I mean, right, a thorough note, or do you just put like a word and then get your confusion out there?

I've made that mistake before. It's a bit of form higher, not ketchup. No, what the fuck is ketchup? I've made it mistake, but I'll just put a couple things so I don't get in even deeper in thought and then that fucks me because then I'm like, what does that mean?

I know that mean. I know that mean. It's a context. It's really important to note to yourself. Yes. Smart me was trying to tell me something. I know, I've done me. Hey, I've absolutely done that before

where I try not to like write a lot. I'm like, I'm just gonna write a couple words. That'll remind me. And then the next morning comes and like through after dreams and all this stuff. Oh, fuck, I know this is important. I just can't connect it. Hey, speaking of like deep rooted,

I said I didn't know the ketamine session. So I took a couple weeks off because of the move and all that stuff. So I did know the sessionamine session. So I took a couple weeks off because of the move and all that stuff. So I did another session last night. That is remarkable. It's so remarkable. So last, so yesterday I did another session. And they're all, they're all a little different, right?

Sometimes you have these big breakthroughs while you're doing it. Other times it's like afterwards or just changes your mindset. I talked about earlier how it, it dramatically improves neural plasticity. So it allows you to kind of rewire patterns and stuff like that. Here's the weird thing that's happened to me a few times with it. I will literally have a vivid memory that I forgot. Like, and I'll have the memory and be like, oh yeah. Now, it's, it's a, it's typically a memory that I think I wanted to forget, right?

So it's something I don't wanna think about. So you kinda like block it out. I threw it off, yeah. But I had a memory of when I was, I must have been three. Three? Three. No way.

I, I want, and it's not that I forgot it. I remembered it. I just didn't wanna think about it. I didn't think about it. So I, I, I pull and stuff up from three. Yeah, I must have been because it was in the first house. Now, okay, how do you distinguish right now?

Yeah, it's a dead, no, that's a, well, no, I know you can feel on the age by the things your house, this way. Sure. But how do you distinguish right now? Because one of the things, my sister and I were talking about this before about like memories of my dad, right? Oh, you wanted to find out some memories. Oh, you wanted to find out some memories.

Oh, I mean, I was a memory. Well, no, like, and one of the things that we,, go like, man, I have so few of memories of dad and what I can't even distinguish now is, if that was a memory or that's something that's a story someone else told me about a time or maybe a video you saw of that, like, you know what I'm saying? So how do you distinguish when you're having these?

That's not like something that your parents told you. So this is a memory that I remembered for a long time. I was a kid, I think I didn't wanna think about it for a while, but it's very like clear. I remember the experience, is what I should say. So I was in it, I remember the experience of it, but I know what you're talking about. I've done that before, I'll tell a story to someone

and then I'll be like, wait a minute. Yeah. Did I make up the story and then tell it so many times, I think it's true. You remember that? Oh yeah, I remember telling the story and then tell it so many times? I think it's true. You remember that? Oh, yeah. I remember telling the story like, uh, when I was young with my brother and we, like, met this kid and, um, he, he basically was like trying to be cool and show us his knife. And so he like pulls his knife out. And in my memory, I was so scared that because I was unexpected, he pulls it out like this, that my memory told me that like, he pulled his knife out. And in my memory, I was so scared because I was unexpected, he pulls it out like this,

that my memory told me that he pulled his knife out and was trying to hurt us with it. And he was just trying to be cool and show us the knife. And my brother had to tell me, no, this is how it actually went. Because I was younger than my brother, two years. And so it's just stuff like that, like happening to me all the time.

I had a story I made up, or I beat up these guys guys and I was like tough I told a I told kids forever the story that it got to the point where I was like You believe it bro because you tell for so long and then as an adult I look back and I'm like I mean that shit Oh Never happened I just said that to sound cool. Well, I've had ones where I'm telling a story about a memory I had of a Christmas when my dad was still alive of like, oh, I got a desk and, you know, there was this bike and

then he came in. And then like, I'll watch all of a sudden. It's a video. And you remember the video. And I'm like, oh, God, did I just at nine or do that like it, 12, I watched that video. And so then it, So it actually happened,

but you don't remember the full thing. That's right. And so is it, was it actually, am I actually remembering that moment of being there, or am I remembering watching the video? Did I say, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And so there's a lot of stuff like that.

Oh yeah, there's lots of studies on this. There's lots of studies on this, and they'll show how you can implant things into memories and stuff like that So but this was interesting because I Re so a couple things with the ketamine Therapy is that I'll remember something occasionally and then I'll remember the experience and then I'll realize that I That I either downplayed the experience or I thought of the experiences being something else than it was so on and so forth. So like there was like loosely there was an experience I had with my dad and I thought

he was he was ashamed of me but the reality was he was frustrated because he didn't know how to connect with me and I clearly sought now looking back. That was interesting but this is another interesting one. I remember I was sitting in a high chair in our old house and my parents were just going at it. And the reason why I remembered this in there was because I have this mode, you guys know this, I could no matter what's happening in my life, I could turn off whatever's happening and just go into a different mode very easily, very easy for me. I learned how to do that as a kid because when you're little and your parents are you know whatever going you're

fighting young each other my parents were really young when they had me that I learned how to like shut it off. Yeah interesting. Not react just like whatever shut it off and it was such a learned strategy that it became my second nature. To the point where I now have to learn how to access feelings. I can identify. Okay, so this brings up a really cool question then. Very somewhat of what I was talking about with my sleep. When you go do that, when you talk to the therapist afterwards

and you're working through this, how do you reconcile knowing that that's also been a superpower of yours? And so it's like, okay, I recognize work. It also disconnect me from my partner or my kids and how I need to get better at that and so on. But then I also recognize that you're also the guy who I've watched have drama or traumatic stuff going on and then walk in and crush an interview. Like that superpower comes from that, so how do you reconcile that? Yeah, I don't think I'll lose that ability. I think, but I think I'm aware of it now,

and that it, here's the difference. There's a difference when it's operating on its own versus I know how to grab it and use it when I need it. It's a big difference. Okay, so this is, now goes back to like how I used to use cannabis, right? So I'm very aware of like when I'm in deep and thought and I'm laying in bed and like, I want to be here because this is like, I'm having really good thoughts around like the vision of the business and it's like, oh, this is going to play out like this.

And like, I don't want to leave that space. Then I have other times like last week was for me like this, where it's like, I've got this anxiety or angst or whatever excitement that got going on and I can't get out of my head and I don't want to be in my head where this is where I would like take a couple hits. So now imagine if you knew how. If you had a better grasp of being able to go into something

and come out of it and aware of how to do that. When it becomes your natural operating system, it's hard to turn off. For me, I can be in a stressful situation. Well, obviously, and I can't, aware of how to do that. When it becomes your natural operating system, it's hard to turn off. For me, I can be in a stressful situation. Well obviously, and I can't, I don't show it literally. I'll be in a stressful, and it doesn't show on my physical body. I can now identify what's happening, like, oh, my mouth is dry.

Oh, I feel this feeling. I get this weird feeling in my feet and my legs. Oh, I am under stress or overwhelmed or I am being bothered right now and it's not showing. Now why is it important for me to identify this? Because let's say you're my partner, let's say you're my wife, and I'm telling her,

hey, this is really bothering me right now. She hears my words, she doesn't believe me. She can't, she can't feel it. Like, you don't look like you're, when I tell her I'm stressed out, she's always, she's in believe me. Like, I know you're saying it, but it doesn't seem like you're out, you're totally, totally normal. I'm like, no, I am. She's like, you don't look like you're, when I tell her I'm stressed out, she's always, she's in believe me. Like I know you're saying it, but it doesn't seem like it. Like you're out, you're totally,

seem totally normal. I'm like, no I am, she's like, I don't believe you. So it makes it hard to connect, it makes it hard to, and also, by the way, if you, for me personally, if I can't grab onto or feel, or allow myself to feel negative things, that means I'm also blunted on the good stuff. You only go as deep, what do they say?

A tree will only grow as tall as it's roots are deep. That's wide. Or I don't know, I went on a summer, something like that, right? So anyway, it was just really interesting. Now, does that mean it's all fixed or what? No, but I'm aware. So now I can kind of go in and kind of

try to be aware of it. We need to hug you before every part of it. No, definitely not. Yeah, I'm still not there. Good. Yeah, so I mean, you know, interesting, because I not. Yeah, I'm still not there. Good. Yeah, so I mean, you know, interesting, because I feel like you're at the awareness phase, which I believe I'm very aware of what I would just explain.

The question would be, what does the practice look like? And obviously I've used something to Medicaid that to get me out of those states. And really why, of course, I go back to, I told you the cannabis point off had more to do with my son than anything else, but then also the personal side of it is like, well, I also got in the habit of like,

I like it so much that it became more regular than it needed to be versus using it when I'm like, oh, here's a moment where I have. So here's what's cool, right? So as I'm talking about these things and figuring these things out, like, oh, it's an automatic process. Oh, it's not something I can control. It's my default.

Here's what I love about what we do. What we do translates to everything. When you see somebody with a movement pattern, a recruitment pattern that they've learned, the only way they could gain a new automatic recruitment pattern is to first consciously train a new one. It's work. So you get someone who shoulders roll forward when they row.

Yeah, yeah. You can't just tell them, pull your shoulders back, you're getting to that, they're gonna hike their shoulders, you know this, we've done so many times. So you have to put them in position, they have to train it, strengthen it, develop this new default pattern, and then eventually becomes automatic.

But at first, I have to like, practice. Well, that's okay. So you just say, now you're highlighting your point. Now you're highlighting a really good point. Cause, okay, here's the awareness plus the new pattern that we've tried to create in when situations like this. So when there's a time when Katrina claims

that I'm thinking so loud it's keeping her awake, right? And say, she'll be like, I can't sleep. I can hear you. I'm like, I'm not fucking moving. How's that possible? I can literally fill your thoughts. Like, this is how crazy this is, right?

She'll, she used to do this a lot. We haven't done this in a long time, but she used to like get up and box breathe with me. And we would box it together, totally, to calm me all the way down. If the physical part down so that your body's like, yes, she's probably picking up a lot of your body signals because she did a lot of body work with people, right? Yeah, I mean, she's not even touching me, bro. This is like as laying in bed. I mean, she can we can chill. Yeah, she's probably picking up a lot of your body signals though, because she did a lot of body work with people, right?

Yeah, I mean, she's not even touching me, bro. This is like as lame and bad. I mean, she can, she's hyper-aware of the cues that you can't even consciously, like, when you notice something's tense, but you can't put your finger on it. Some people just, yeah, they have that, she has that kind of ability, right? It's also one of her gifts, right?

Very intuitive. Yeah, she's always been, I'm just one of the things I've always been attracted to her is that, that we, she has that, right? I think, I like to think that we share this ability to be able to do that. What's wild is that, right? I think it's, the thing I like to think that we share is this ability to be able to do that. What's wild is that she can do it on a level that be like eyes closed, 10 o'clock at night, under laying there for an hour, and nothing has been said or movement, and then she'll

out of nowhere be like, stop it. We'll be alone. Dude, I need to say, I need to bring something, I need to change directions here because I need to bring this up. I, my position on a topic is become a little bit more, it's been strengthened and maybe a little more extreme. I think electrolyte supplementation is necessary for athletes. I don't think it's an option anymore.

I think it's necessary. I've had enough experiences now with elementary, with family members, friends, their kids, adults, people who do jitsu, soccer, basketball, whatever. Every single one of them profound difference when they use electrolytes versus when they do. So why don't you change your diet athletes? Yes. So why I find that really interesting, right? And hard to believe is the amount of sodium that is in processed foods, which is 90% of most Americans diets,

you would think that they are getting an overwhelming amount of that, even if you're an athlete. So what is it? Good question. So I don't think it's the over total law. Excuse me. Overall, the other minerals total sodium. I think it has more to do with the supplementing the electrolytes when they're being excreted and it allows for the balancing to happen faster. So

they're not taking element T during the day and then tomorrow they go do their sport. Everybody I'm talking about. It's like before and during. If you're gonna sweat, before and during. Every single person. Because the first demand of that physical exertion. Well, literally the message is I'm getting. So I have a, will it cramps, like headaches? So my buddy does jujitsu.

He's gonna compete soon, right? And he's like, oh, here's the symptoms I'm suffering from. What do you think is happening? So fatigue, his muscles are not feeling good. He's not, oh, here's the symptoms I'm suffering from. What do you think is happening? So fatigue, his muscles are not feeling good. He's not recovering fast enough. He said, here's something easy you could try. I said, stop by the studio. I'll give you a box of LMNT.

Let me know what you think. He's like, what is that? It's electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, potassium. Try it. Let me just think. Literally the text I got, what's in that? That's what I got. I'm like, what do you mean?

Like I thought something happened? He goes, bro, he goes, I took it for two days when I trained. I felt profoundly better, more stamina, more endurance. I was stronger. I just felt really good. Then I didn't take it, felt crap again. Then I started taking it. I feel amazing. He goes, what's in that? There's got to be other stuff in there. I said, no, literally what I told you, sodium, potassium, and magnesium. And it's a decent amount of sodium. Do you think there's something potentially there also with the magnesium? Of course.

Considering that 60 plus percent of United States is deficient on magnesium. And I wouldn't use element T as a magnesium supplement, but you have, you want to have some potassium magnesium to allow the sodium to do its job. That's what you want. So it's balanced in that sense, but it's not as magnesium supplement. Okay, so is that have to do with the transportation of it? Yep, okay.

Well, that makes sodium work for the body. That makes a lot of sense to me, because although the American diet is tons of processed food, tons of sodium, it probably doesn't have a perfect balance of sodium to magnesium. No. And so even though you're getting all this fucking sodium, it's not the ideal way to transport it into your body, you're now taking the most optimal way to do that right before you go into a session, even if you are getting all this process crap.

And so that's why maybe everybody is feeling such a part. Yeah, the average American. Because it's obvious to me, the, the dieter, right? The health nut who is eating all whole foods. Like that's very obvious to me. Because there is a lot of substantial difference, right? That's what we've felt and we've had a lot of heart. Yeah, but it is, I've seen the same thing with all the athletes I've worked with

and have tried element T. It's just like because of that, demand and that that high exertion, all levels of that have improved when they use it. Yeah, so for athletes, let's say it's an athlete who eats a normal diet. So their sodium intake isn't low, like someone who eats whole foods only or low carb,

what you actually need. It's not that their total sodium is deficient and they need more, it's that when they're sweating their ass off, playing their sport, it's the timing of it. Your body will take some time to balance itself out. It'll take longer if you don't have the sodium readily available, like you would with an electric powder. So this is drinking, so literally, I told him drink half before, drink the other half during.

And he's, it's nine, nine day. And that's like the, I don't know, 10th person that I know that's reported that. And then of them are like eating like a perfect. No, I've had nothing but positive stuff from everybody. I've given that out to people a lot, just because it's simply,'t know, 10th person that I know that's reported that. And then of them are like eating like a perfect diet. No, I've had nothing but positive stuff from everybody. I've given that out to people a lot, just because it's simply, you know, I thought you were going to say something about the ketamine thing because did you, I feel like you should address the crazy long letter that we got from somebody that was so offended by you talking.

What, that is expensive? No, no, not that one. Not that one, we got that one too. No, like literally saying like you're not talking about the potential harmful stuff and the fact that sales promoting ketamine on there, I thought it was really funny that we had somebody that No, that's my personal experience.

I know, this is the part that I think is hilarious about a platform like this. Like you can't, it's like you want, you want so bad to have a bunch of guys be as raw and honest and authentic as you possibly can. But then heaven forbid, they share that they're going through something in their life that might have some controversy around it or uncertainty around it

or scary for something like, what the fuck? Like, you can't have both. Why would we never do that? You can't have both. You're not me. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Potential harms, I mean, it's all, I'm doing no, no, no, no, no. Potential harms. I mean, it's all, I'm doing this all supervised.

This is not long term. You don't do it forever. You know, Kenemey's been around for a long time. That's why it was one of the first ones in the category to be approved for the use. But yeah, it's not natural. And they do it. I wish, I mean, I would love to be able to do this naturally.

But yeah, I mean, it might take me years, it might take me five years, 10 years. I don't suffer from treatment resistant depression or PTSD, so yeah, maybe I'm doing, I have the luxury of doing this and it's cool. But if you have treatment resistant depression or PTSD, oftentimes nothing works. Or you're gonna live for 10 years.

Your options are very slim. Come on, it's about, it's a quality of life thing. That's it. Which I also think addresses the other, that other email that you were just saying is the one that, so one got all upset because of. That's expensive, because it was expensive. Sure, I don't think we've ever came on here

and claimed to be the cheapest anything. I think we've got the opposite actually. It's like, I want the best of whatever thing I can find. And like, if it's the most expensive, I'm sorry. Hey, look, if you look at the data, no affiliation, okay, that's not anything. There's no discount code or anything like that. If you, if you look at the data on,

on depression treatments, the classic SSRI, whatever, and then you look at what they're doing with ketamine and how it's working for some of these people, the ketamine people will do treatment for a few months and then not take it for a year or two and that it'll stick around. SSRI, yeah, it's cheaper in the short term, but guess what, you stay on that shit forever.

So do the math. You probably, if it works as advertised, you save your money. I mean, I really don't give a shit with someone else saying something. As my friend, I would want to hear about it. You know what I'm saying? If you're going through that process,

I respect to you as somebody who's well-read, intelligent, doing your homework, so that like you're just experimenting with drugs all over the planet. You know what I'm saying? Like looking for it endlessly. Now you're looking for a good high or something like that. It's like, listen, you're trying to do deep therapy work

on yourself. You've tried a lot of different things that you're having profound effects that I'm curious. Like I want to selfishly know. So fuck you, you know. Cool. We have a shout out. Yeah, is this to Dr. Con?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hook up Dr. Con. What a cool one, dude, okay? An experience with it. Really? What a great young scientist, Dr. Con. Ground breaking medicine he's doing. Yeah, he's doing reggae. Are we allowed to talk about who he's,. Yeah, he's doing a radio.

Are we allowed to talk about who he's, I mean, when he's eight, we could say that. I don't know. Then you wait for the episode for him to hear that, but he's definitely doing some big thing. Yeah, what's his Instagram? Is it dr.ak, han, is that what that's? Correct.

And he's blowing up right now. I know. I know. Really, let me put his way. We talk to him. Just find him and follow him. Because we can't say much because we have an episode with him coming out.

Genuine good dude. Blue my mind, like totally blew my mind. Some of the stuff that he said. Yeah, we all had dinner afterwards and it was just literally everybody taking turns picking his brain. Dude is absolutely brilliant. And to funny, funny side note,

he's at one point was ranked the number one halo player in the world on Xbox. Just a little icing there. Yeah, no hilarious. I thought that was really funny. That was around time when I was gaming. I dropped my gamer hat. Did you get nice in?

I took that picture. He heard of him. I sent him the picture and he recognized him. Then I told him his game name and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, I have heard of him. By the way, his gaming, I love how he talked about how being the world's best Halo player helps him with his treatments now So the way he does treatments now some of the therapy

He the more accurate you can inject the needle and the closer you can get To the area that needs to be treated the more effective you're gonna be so he's watching an MRI machine while he's moving a needle around Get and everybody's cheating with himself Everybody's like nobody has hands like this guy and he's like I needle around and everybody's cheating with himself. Everybody's like, nobody has hands like this guy. And he's like, I learned it from playing Halo. That's a great deal. Well, that's like that grand terese moment. You guys watch that yet?

No. It's actually really good. True story, right? Yeah. You guys have seen it yet. Oh, it's worth the watch. It was actually really entertaining. I really enjoyed it.

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Go to enteriskskincaer.com. That's ENT-ER-A skincaer.com-forge-lash-M-P-M and then use the code M-P-M for 10% off your order. All right, back to the show. First question is from Muhammad the 11. Does heavy deadlifting on a pole day grow for arms or bicep? Oh, controversial, controversial.

The dead lifts make your arms bigger. It's not a direct arm exercise, but let's say pole day. Yes, confuse everybody. Yeah, but let's talk about the data, right? The data shows that heavy isometrics recruit the most amount of muscle fibers. Heavy isometrics can build muscle and strength. Also, muscles that are put under tension in a stretch position or elongated position, that is the best position for hypertrophy. Now, all ranges of

motion build muscle, but lengthened in comparison to like mid-rangeer contracted is gonna build the most amount of muscle. And there's also load, right? They're just the sheer load that the CNS has to manage sends a muscle building signal. So look at the deadlift, crazy isometric tension in the biceps and the forearms. In fact, if you've never deadlifted... So the most demand you're gonna get. Totally. And if you've never deadlifted and you go deadlift heavy, because you're relatively strong in your hips and legs and all stuff, you'll find your biceps to sore the next day or your brachialis will be sore the next day.

So heavy isometric check is in a length and position. Your bicep is in a length and position check and then load. Finding an exercise you can load more than deadlift. So controversial, but I'll say, yeah, you can definitely, you will build. Well, no, the hypertrophy nerds are going to argue because everything revolves around bicep curls and that's the only way you can, you know, build and develop your biceps. But you, I mean, there's, there's plenty of studies out there for isometrics, just exactly the way you're describing it.

And this is placing the most amount of load you can possibly place on your forearm and bicep with that in mind. If it being an isometric controlled stabilized position that you're fixated in with those, but there's other ways to train them and all of it is beneficial. So it's not just the one thing that we're talking about here.

So just that's for all the haters. We all agree to go and say it's so funny, I thought I was gonna be the only one to jump all over the idiots. So I know this is an epistle off all the science there. You went after hypertrophy bodybuilder, I'm gonna go after all the science there, is that only that live in a six to 12 week study bubble, or only know how to tout studies they read

versus like real world experience. My whole life I've been lifting, and as a kid like arms and forearms were like such a big deal to me. And I did every forearm magazine, superset workout exercise. You could think of the strongest and biggest my forearms ever got was when I wasn't giving two shits about them, but all I was doing was trying to catch cell on the deadlift. That was the biggest and strongest my forearms have, not even close to when I was cycling, like hitting them two to three times a week and doing all these cool exercises that I would

reverse curls everything. Nothing got them strong. When I didn't even care about getting my forearms stronger or bigger, but I was so focused on getting strong with the deadlift, they came up that much. That's how impactful it's been for. That's right. What happens with the question like this, is there's this false, like this question is pretty direct. What they're not asking is, are deadlifts better than curls for the biceps?

Right, it's not either or. No. It's a, hey, does heavy deadlifting have a hypertrophy effect on the forums and biceps, right? It's not either or. No. It's a, hey, does heavy deadlifting have a hypertrophy effect on the forms of biceps? Yes, yes, absolutely. Are they involved in stabilizing? Is there tremendous tension on those muscles? And then like I said, with the bicep in particular,

it's in a lengthened position. If I stop deadlifting, so I love deadlifting, but sometimes I'll go for a couple months without doing it and I'll work on correctional exercise or other things, because I can deadlift pretty heavy, even when I don't do it consistently, and I'll get little nagging injuries and pains that'll pop up. And so now that I'm wiser and older, I'm like, I'm going to back off on deadlifting for a while, I'm going to work on these where I notice these issues, and then I'll go back to deadlifting, see if it feel better. And I've done that now, you know,

I don't know, five or six times over the last few years. Every time I go back to deadlifting, I'm still pretty, I can always pull five plates no matter what, so I'll go pull five plates. You know where I got sore? My biceps, I'll feel it here at the insertion or my breakie allis, just from the tension of holding the bar.

So yeah, it's definitely doing something, but it's not a either or it's a plus or an end. The question is really, does deadlifting and doing arm exercises better than just doing arm exercises answers? Yeah, I think the point though that I think is important. This is how much my also training has changed. Again, arms were such a focus when I was a kid,

at least just train arms. And if I ever fell off the wagon for a week or two, came back, what did I start with? Arms. Never missed arm day. But I miss leg day, I miss chest day, I miss all these other days all the time because I cared so much about building my arms.

The way I train is completely different. I rarely ever train my arms. What I will go do is go do some pull ups, go do some dead lifts, like I'll do something like that because what I know is that's such, that movement is so beneficial for overall muscle on my body. And you're on, right?

And I'm hitting my arms still. So it's like just my philosophy around training is I'm always looking like, if I'm only gonna go in and do a few things in the past that would be arms. I would do a whole arm workout for half hour, if that was all I was gonna do. That would be the last thing on the total pull now.

It's like, I'm gonna go in and do deadlifting or pull ups or these big movements that I get to develop my back and my forearms and my biceps all in one exercise. It just makes more sense. Speaking of which, the other day I saw a dude working out, Jack, well developed, and he was doing the pull down version that we talked about as a bicep pull down version, a compound lift.

I saw him, he had his wrists like this, and he pulled down, but he had this kind of like rounded forward. Position, because he was focusing on the bicep. And I'm like, oh, and he's very well developed. Obviously, knows what he's doing. It's not like he has bad pull down technique, and then I went and saw him do other exercises

for his biceps. I'm like, oh saw him do other exercises for his biceps. I'm like, oh, he's doing pull downs for biceps. He gets it. I never saw that, but I love that. Next question is from Jonathan Sosh. What certifications did you all start with as personal trainers and did you feel like they helped prepare you to be a personal trainer?

All right, this is another controversial answer. The certification that actually had the most benefit for me and my career as a trainer was the correctional exercise courses that I took. There was this huge carryover into what I do with my clients and value that I brought them. Now I'm going to be honest. I hate to say this, but I don't know. Most, if not all the certifications aside from the ones I just talked about, didn't really

do much for me in terms of my success or my client success, except for making me feel a little bit more confident. Most of the value or success I got as a trainer came from learning through experience, and here's the second one. This is the big one, learning from other better more experienced trainers and coaches. Yeah. Like the certifications didn't do much for me,

except for the correctional exercise ones, there were kind of a waste of time. I needed to get them, or I'd get paid more forgetting them, or I'd have trainers go through them, so I'd want to go through them, but I didn't learn a whole lot from them that I could apply that would brought value to people. Yeah, I have a pretty similar experience with that.

I mean, I liked NSM as a good baseline, but it really was just touching up on anatomy, physiology, terms, and biomechanics on a very surface level, which is, you know, I went to college and studied all that. So it was just like, oh, cool, nice little refresher to kind of get me in the minds of how to like communicate this, now to an average person. But in terms of like beyond that, for me, it was always like picking the brains of qualified trainers and what they were doing with their clients. And then sometimes I would go, really it was like the the unconventional, the ones I had to go in person to go through the actual mechanics, like kettlebell training and when I learned Indian clubs and different types of like tools that you physically need

to be able to go through the right patterns and get taught. And that way it was easier for me to then incorporate it and program it in and show clients and have confidence on how to kind of like, you know, take them through those movements. It's like, but for me, it was all about like taking bits and pieces of a lot of concepts and modalities out there, which is, I could get a lot of that from communicating with really good trainers or watching them apply to their clients. You know, as much as I actually shit on the formal education stuff, I actually got quite a bit of stuff.

I went through eight different national certifications during my entire career. I probably don't know if I could list all of them, but I do know there was, there's some that stand out to me that I think taught me different things. IFPA was my first one. That was pretty much a joke,

but it got me introduced NASM I think was one of the most well-rounded first taught me the squad assessment really well Corrective exercise specialist hands down I agree. I think we would all probably put that up as probably one of the best and I didn't I never took Ken stretch or What is Kelly star at did he do want to camera or his supple leopard stuff? I didn't get that to a weight later. I would probably push somebody in Ken Stretch and supple leopard doctrine now, even for the, instead of corrective exercise,

but corrective exercise specialist was what was around when we got in there. The sports performance specialist that I got through NSM, I thought that was really valuable because that introduced me to sports training. Nesta was the first certification that really opened my eyes to like, oh wow, there's some really conflicting views on it. They were the first ones that discussed deeper squats, like astigrass squats, and for a national

certification that was really weird. And it really kind of shattered my paradigm because I came out of the already getting all these NASM. Let me, you know, let me call my none that real quick. Sorry to cut you off. It's what's funny about what you're just talking about. It was, it taught you a lot because it countered the other shit you learned from other surfacations.

How do you just, through experience and through training with other coaches who experience, you would have learned that right off the gate. Yeah. It was more groundbreaking to counter the shit that you thought you'd do. I cherry picked a lot of it. Well, and I started to so part of the the best benefits from having all these certifications was starting to see that

Yeah, there was differences in philosophy with like NSCA on their nutritional component versus like an Acer an aphah like So I got I got to experience so many that it opened my eyes up more of like oh This isn't just the so part of like when you hear me talk about stuff, like education, the reason why I kind of rag on it's because, you know, show me a certification that says this. I'll show you another one that says the opposite because they have, there's so many, like gray areas when you get into biomechanics and nutrition on some things. And so I did get a lot of value from having all those different certifications. Hands down the best, corrective exercise specialist.

Second probably was even the foundational NSM or having the squat assessment. I really attribute a lot to the nest that to opening my eyes about a deeper squat. Some sort of mobility training like Ken Stretch, I think would be a massive one to have, even though I didn't go through the formal. I feel good to be valuable to.

That's heavy and deep. But I mean to set yourself aside and be able to get traction in with your spine. I think there's stuff out there. I think there's a lot of value. But again, to me, it was like more of like, I'm going to extract what I can actually apply to my clients and have, because I get the whole,

like they have to like lay out the whole, like, they have to, like, lay out the whole philosophy, the modality. There's the education of the why behind all these concepts. And I think that, you know, you get a lot from that, but in terms of application of it, there's a few certifications out there that do a good job with that. And I think, you know, like your Joe DeFranco's,

there's a fantastic, and to NCI, and, you know, like your Joe DeFranco's, there's a fantastic and to NCI. And, you know, just more of these heavily focused on the application of like, now take this, supply to your client, here's how you're going to program it. And this is where it's actually going to like, you know, you're going to read benefit from it. Yeah, look, okay, here's a deal. We all trained trainers, and they were successful, not because of the training knowledge. You're taking a step. We taught them.

But because we taught them the culture, the proper culture, the proper philosophy of what makes a successful trainer. There's a way of being and a way of approaching health and fitness that makes you successful. Now, you need to have knowledge. So the whole debate around education and knowledge, I feel like that's a given.

Like, yeah, you got to know stuff. If you don't know stuff, that's step one. I could get to know stuff. But really what makes you successful is, do you walk this path in this way that makes you successful and effective in a real true way? And the only way I'd learn that through being around other successful trainers and coaches, not by them teaching me, but by me watching them, listening to them, watching

interactions, how they compose themselves, how they lived, the way that they said certain things. That I knew to be true, but it was the way that they said it, the way they approached it. That was so damn effective. It was literally like like it's this culture that when you meet successful coaches and trainers, you could take tan around the world

who are successful as defined by they built a big, a good business and their clients achieve forever success. They actually really modify, help clients, modify behaviors that last forever. You take tan from around the world, put them in a room, have them train clients. There's gonna be a lot of differences,

but one thing is gonna stay the same, they're all gonna have this similar approach in philosophy and culture around how they operate. That nobody teaches, nobody teaches, there's no certification that you set up for. There's a reason we're building what we're building right now, right? We have had the opportunity to go through. Spoiler alert, well, I mean, come on,

it's been well overdue and I think it needs to be addressed. And we 100 percent, this is the thought process. For every, to your point, for every trainer that you have that has a, you know, four year degree plus eight national certifications, I'll show you the kid who's 19 years old has no national cert or one basic certification. And his business is thriving compared to that one. So because he understands what I just said. That's right. Just because you have a ton of that.

Now, if you can take what is it about that kid who has this thriving business and has minimal knowledge in the space and he's thriving and he's whooping the guy who's got eight certifications in a degree, you could take what he's doing, his ability to communicate so effectively and blend it with that person's knowledge. Look the fuck on. Now you're talking about a world class. That's right. Now you're talking about a world class trainer right there.

Now you're talking about when you throw names around like a Joe DeFranco and stuff like that. Somebody who has the knowledge to go round for round with some of the smartest people in the space, but they communicate it to the simplest of minds. Understand how to make it effective and implement it. And so, you know, quite frankly, this is where national certifications miss the mark. They do such a good job of going deep on anatomy, physiology, nutrition, the theory of everything. That's right.

And they give you the science behind everything, but it is not the most important part. Here's the bottom line. A physicist can explain the physics of a race car exceptionally well, what makes it fast, what makes it turn well, what makes it rough, but he ain't gonna be a race car driver and a race who's been driving his whole life.

That's it, you want to be an effective trainer, you got to be the race car driver, a race who's been driving this whole lot. That's it, that's it. You wanna be an effective trainer, you gotta be the race car driver, not the physicist. That's the fact. Now you combine the two, you got like you said, yeah, world class. Next question is from Josh J. 93. What maps programs are you guys currently following?

Oh, I love this. You know what I always, so I'll go through general, generally follow loosely the programs that we put together. And I say loosely because I obviously individualize them because I know myself and all that stuff, right? But I always bounce back to the original full-body Maps and a ball of style training and I move outside of it like right now

I'm doing a lot of lateral training and some more correctional work But then when I feel like I'm good, I go back to that old three day a week, full body, days in between, maybe some trigger sessions, maybe some mobility stuff, it's just, it's always the best place for me in terms of progress. I always feel the best, I feel the strongest,

and I can go outside of it to push my body harder, add more volume, do different things. That's your homeostasis. But I get back in there and I'm like, this is where... I think we all have that, right? Yeah. We sort of have our preferences. Like I tend to fall back into more functional and, you know, more maps performance type

train. But I, I mean, I flurred around with like your maps in a ball like in, in mass power lift and, you know, what I was doing a lot beforehand was the old time strength. Yeah. And was like what I was doing a lot beforehand was the old time strength, and was like really getting into that. And then was realizing, oh my God, like I ran the other day and was like, man, I am winded.

And so all I've been doing the last like month and a half has been cardio. And so if you wanna pick any of ours, it's literally modeled after a lot of what we put in Maps cardio with pushing the sled around and getting after it and getting liner on my feet and working a lot more on my forefoot. So conditioning is a big one for me right now. So I want to point out something that, because we get this question right now and then

you both, like similar modeled after, it's important that the person who's asking this question and the people that tend to ask this question, you understand that the ultimate place to get is that you have such a deep understanding and knowledge of programming as I'd like to think that the three of us have. We're creating them. Yeah, right. So I hope you do. And this is my place.

Sometimes this question is a little funny to Yeah, right. So I don't believe you. And this is my point. That's why I sometimes this question's a little funny to me, right? It's like, I like to think that everybody in here is a black belt on program design that you don't have to follow this rigid structure every single day that you showed up. You're right. You understand the core principles of every single thing that we've written and where to apply and when to apply them based off of how you feel, what you're thinking, what your goals are at that moment. And that could ebb and flow based off of how you feel, what you're thinking, what your goals are at that moment, and that could ebb and flow based off of

where you're currently at in your life. Yeah, what you're saying is this is why it's so important because people also say, well, what do you eat? Okay. What I do for myself probably has zero. That's right. Application for you. Now, if you're doing it at a curiosity,

that's totally fine. Okay. But if you're listening to it being like, I'm gonna follow that because that's what they do. It's like zero application. I know, and I know it's in our best interest to say things like, I'm following this. So the tea.

You know, so I'm selling our program all the time. But the reality is like, that's not how, just like I don't follow a rigid diet all the time. And it also means I would never teach my client to do exactly what I'm doing. I don't expect them to be. I just wear the t-shirt. Yeah. I don't expect them. I just really t-shirt. I don't expect them to be. But that's our goal of this podcast and writing all these programs is to be able to give that to all of you. It's for you to

be able to experience these programs, to listen to the show, to be able to get in and to where you like understand at that level. You don't have to follow as bad as that sounds for our business. So you don't have to follow one of our, as bad as that sounds for our business, so you don't have to follow one of our programs. But you've understood at that level that you know how to ebb and full of that. Now, there's a lot of cocky arrogant people that think they know at that level

that probably should follow it to a T until they get that understanding of how to model it around their life. But I mean, the only times I really follow our programs too is when we create them, there's a- The test them out. The test them out. Yeah.

Then I want to run through phases and be like, It's new, it's exciting. Yeah, and be like, hey, and give feedback to the guys. Like, you know, that was a little much, you know, we probably shouldn't have added that with that. I felt this going on and like, so we'll make little adjustments like that. And that's part of, that's why the process

of building a program for us is a big process. It's not simply like, hey, let's throw a bunch of exercise together and call it maps performance and we'll throw some cardio shit in there. It's not like that. It's like, there's a lot of thought that goes into it and testing it. But as far as like following a rigid program,

I don't know, I think Doug is the only one that does that. Yeah, he's not not a black belt. Yeah, he's the least experienced. Although, although you're gonna be there soon, I would give you another one. What are you running right now, Doug? Maps 15 minutes advanced. So I'm in phase three right now. And I'm actually loving the program. So I've gone through anabolic probably 20 plus times. That's the one you always bounce

back. I always bounce back to that. So I usually do programs in between whether it's aesthetic or strong or, you know, what symmetry, some of the ones I've done recently, but I always go back to anabolic. But after this last round of working out, I was feeling in my body. I was feeling a little bit tired. So I thought, well, maps 15 minutes would be perfect for me. So this is what I look like the most. If I were to say, because you guys all gave things that you're, I'm, maps 15 is how I'm training most maps five right now. Yeah Now I'll tell you why I love map 15 Three minute abs. It's annoying because you look like you do maps 45

Math five Muscle memory whatever the hell in it. Although Yeah, it's most of his past I really I to change. I tell you what, since you went that way, Doug, like I have really, really enjoyed. Map 15 actually is probably the least like anything I would have trained most of my life.

And I find that I get far more benefits than I would have expected. It's surprising. It's very surprising. It's super surprising. It's very surprising. I got stronger. And I really, I really enjoy the freedom of training in such either, It's surprising. It's very surprising. It's super surprising. It's very surprising. I got stronger.

And I really, I really enjoy the freedom of training in such either. And what I do is I go, sometimes it's a 15 minute workout, sometimes I combine two 15s to a 13. So I kind of, that's what it looks like. So if I have a three day week, where I only train three days a week, I've probably combined some of the 15 minutes to a 30 minute. If I stretch it out for six days, I've broken up in 15 minutes. So I'm doing the advanced, which is about 20 minutes to work out.

I love that. I mean, it's in and out real quick. You feel good. And I realized I was maybe overdoing it a little bit after so many months have fallen on all the programs and pulling back, I feel great. I feel like I was, I kind of grew up with the more as better mentality and realizing that maybe less is better for me at this stage.

Oh, you know, one last point to make because I just want to drill this home because we do get this so much is now, if I were to say, I'm going to go compete or I'm going to go, like I have, I'm like very serious, like I've got to build a bunch of muscle. Like I probably would default to like following one of our programs.

So I have a structure to measure, to track, to get, like that's the amount of money I use. Yeah, I still would, I do went a little. But I would be way more like I'm following this. Because it's that important. Like it's just not that important to me right now. Like I really don't care if, you know, 0.3% less muscle got built this week or, you know,

I didn't lose enough. I'm not there in my life. I'm in a place in my life where I want to be healthy. I want to be fit, strong, I want to be mobile, but I don't need to be the fittest, the strongest, the most mobile. Just those are good life. You want to have balance. You know what I'm saying?

And I want to spend the least amount of time working out as I can to maintain all those things. You know, you said something. I think you just put it out there. Like literally our goal with the maps programs is to eventually have people not follow any programs and be able to train themselves. Yes.

So our goal is literally to you are at one with your fitness. Yes. To create customers that are no longer customers. Well, I've tried, I've tried to do that though. Me, I've tried to do it. I've tried to go off on my own, do my own thing and last for maybe two weeks. It takes a while.

Well, that's just good self-awareness. Some people are gonna be that way. No, it's two weeks and then I say I need structure. And so I go back. I do well with the structure. There's nothing, and see, that's too, that's so important. I mean, people are asking us, so I think we are not like that. Where Doug may follow programs for the rest of his life.

It's probably well. It's not like that. Because maybe you look at it as like, I wanna outsource that thinking. I respect the guys so much. Yes, I could do it myself, but why, when I have these three dudes that have put together something so good, I can outsource that thought process.

There's another wrong with that also. But when we get asked that question, I think it's funny because it's like, it's not like that for me. It's either love. It's not a experiment in conjure. Yes, I love it. It's easy. It's a little bit and conjure. Yes, I love it. It's easy.

It's a little bit is always kind of experimenting and doing different things like it's our passion. And so I don't want to outsource that. In fact, I'm very greedy about it. I want to always be adjusting it, customizing it to my needs. And I'm not going to follow something. I'm going to cost the iterating things

to see if I can improve any kind of level. So next question is from Folvio Castle. Is the seed oil controversy real? Yeah, well, we kind of touched on this earlier. I'm going to read to you guys. So Lane did a tweet that I commented on. This was a few weeks ago. And a grants or a disagreeance?

Well, I mean, so here's what I like about Lane. Obviously he's a scientist, but he's also got tons of integrity and If it's not dogmatic. No, he can be dogmatic about things that are true objectively And argues point but he'll change his mind right so He did a post and it says if you don't want to eat seed oils cool But the mental gymnastics on some of you people is a limbic level. I wish The data said, C-da, oils were bad. Then I could jump on the bang wagon and have everyone applaud me,

but that's not what the data says. And he says, if you're feelings, right? Classic lane, right? He's very likable for a lot of people. I love it. So now, my comment underneath his post was, my issue with seed oils or any other food that requires industrial level processing to access is that we could be eating something in quantities that our bodies never evolved alongside with. This could mean nothing, but so far, it usually means not ideal. That really summarizes my view around them. What's funny about this, by the way, is there lines response?

He didn't respond to it, but there was a scientist underneath it, this other guy. This is the shit that I hate right here. And Lane would not say this to me. But this guy says it and he goes, yep, that means nothing. If it meant something, the data would show it. Oh, God. My response, my response to him is that's arrogant and ignorant at the same time. Have we ever run into a situation where data showed no harm and data and then data showed clear harm. Like what? And then I'm sure you went crickets after that. Just it's just now they try to backtrack. It's so annoying to me. Like do we need more examples of times? We thought one thing

is the data showed something than we learned something. Yeah. Later on we don't. Now my opinion on seed oils is air on the side of caution if you have the option and the choices, that's all. Because like I said, seed oils, the quantize that we consume them was never possible without industrial processing. We never co-evolved with this level of consumption of oils that are not like other oils that we consume in larger quantities.

And usually that means that there's downstream effects that aren't great, usually. Not always. Unforeseen consequences. Now by the way, someone's going to make the case in argument, well that's almost everything in our life. That's why you should proceed with caution with almost everything. That's true. We didn't evolve with fucking big giant TVs that we stood five feet from staring at

for hours. You're actually responsible for having health. Maybe think about that might not be the best idea. You know, it says it's take your brain and outsource legal and it's okay. We have nothing that shows that it's going to do any major brain damage. Okay, but we didn't we didn't grow or we didn't exist with that just 50 years ago. So maybe consider doing that. And then oh, by the way, now we've made we've downsized in this little handheld thing we can give it to our two-year-olds to watch. like, maybe think about that. It's like, yeah, I'll take it a step further. We didn't evolve knowing the news of the world, okay?

We evolved knowing the news of our tribe, meaning we're attracted to negative news because it kept us to survive. And we needed to know because if John who lives in the cave with me by a mountain line. I saw some stuff down there like you're going to want to listen. Now I can go on my phone and learn about every kidnapping and every murder and every rape and every crazy thing around the world. We didn't evolve with that kind of knowledge. What does that produce?

Tremendous anxiety. It's a fact. Stop watching the news, watch your anxiety drop. It's that's all it is. That doesn't mean it's bad to know things. No, not necessarily, but you should be aware. That's true for everything. See, do I else? Yeah, dude, like look at the process that is required. Doug, maybe you could pull up the process of creating like rapeseed oil. Okay, great name, by the way. I think they call it canola now. Now it's canola oil. Yeah, rapeseed oil. Yeah.

They had me concerned. Yeah. I still call my shirtola now. Now it's canola oil. Yeah, it's called rapeseed oil. That had me concerned. Yeah. I'll still call my shirt away. Little less consumption for my drink. Now, the part that it's interested to, but why Doug pulls us up, Sal, is there's so many replacements to that.

So why is it such a big deal? I know you can cook canola at a much higher temperature. So for deep frying, it's better than, which we shouldn't be doing with most of foods. Well, not necessarily deep fry with large or something like that. Or, okay, here's why, because it's cheap. It's massively produced and it's inexpensive. Try to replace it. You're going to pay a lot more money. That's all.

It's also has a long shelf life when you produce things with it. It's very convenient. But look, look how it's produced. It's extracted by heating the crushed canola seeds, which by the way, how much oil do you think is in a seed of a canola seed? Yeah. Like they have to do a lot of them to do this, which you would never consume that many anyway, right? But you have to crush them, then you dissolve them in a hexane solvent. Then it's refined using persistitation and acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering them,

and then they deodorize it so that it smells or have a flavor. So it's like this flavorless, odorless oil. Like that's a lot of shit that we can only do now because of technology. They weren't able to do that a hundred years ago, a thousand years ago, or beyond. So just proceed with caution. If I had to bet money that they're going to show that it's worse for you than other easily accessible oils, I'd bet money

on that. And I'd probably win. Not a guarantee, but I'd probably win. That's all. That's my whole position with it. So if you have the choice, I would go with something else. But do I think that it's as important as like eating the right amount of calories, eating high protein, getting good sleep, sticking to whole natural foods, drinking adequate water? Like, no, I don't think this is bigger movers out there. I mean, I think this reminds me, do we, I don't know if we talked about at the time where we had two friends, Josh Trent and Max Lugavir, and then, or three, if you include a check.

Paul checked in a video about Max Lugavir driving through McDonald's, and then, just the time he came after him, and then they tried to loop us in to pile on Max. And, you know, one of the reasons why I think we love Max is that we share a similar type of position around things like this, right? Like, hey, this isn't probably not ideal. So I'm not telling everybody they should comprise their whole diet of going through McDonald's

drive-through and eating burgers, but in a pinch and if people that say, you don't have enough money and you need and you're lacking protein and here's a source like, this is a possible way to do it. Yet at the same time, I'm saying this is not ideal. And then you have the people that love to do the fear mongering on the other side, that's just like, oh my god, this is like the worst thing. And it's like there's a balance there, I feel like. And I think there's people that do it.

Puretons of nutrition. I think there's a good, I think there's a good job of communicating. I think Max is one of those examples of somebody who talks about this. We could create all kinds of fear around seed oils. And then the average person who doesn't do anything else is like, oh, it's the seed oils. I'm going to go and overeat a bunch of other shit.

Oh, this has no seed oils in it, but it's like candy, right? There's no seed oils in candy, but there's, but there's, or whatever. That's, that's the extreme example, but that's what ends up happening when you place too much value on one thing and you miss the big rocks. You miss the big things that are big movers, which is like start by eating high protein diet, eat whole natural foods for the most part, lift weights or do some strain training here and there,

get some good sleep. Like that's 90% of your health right there, maybe 95%. Then the rest, you know, you could look at all the little moving parts and seed oils and, you know, if something has preservatives in it and stuff like that or protein powder versus actual, you know, if something has preservatives in it and stuff like that or protein powder versus actual, you know, food, that kind of stuff. So, look, if you love the show, head over to MindPumpFree.com and check out all of our free fitness

guides. We have a fitness guide for almost everybody and again, they're free. You can also find all of us on Instagram, Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle

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